#Combat Flourishes (aka Mechanical Flourishes)

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

rigid bridge
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... flare affinity... zelnorn... no flare... hmmm

zealous wigeon
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zelnorn takes up the flare slot, let it boost the AS/DS! Oh or make zelnorn flare extra AS/DS!

exotic kiln
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TD too!

rigid bridge
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I think boost supercharger is a better ask for boosting zelnorn

zealous wigeon
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yeah, anything that isn't a flare but takes up the flare slot, FA makes it flare extra bonus

errant elbow
zealous wigeon
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Supercharge probably already does?

covert storm
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As of one minute ago, it is!

dusty pendant
gilded socket
#

Was anyone else hunting with a flare affinity’d runestaff previously? This change is amazing.

#

Going from like 1:8 to 1:5 or whatever it is now is so amazing. I might be the only person out there with FA on my staff… but I’m super happy now lol

covert tendon
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I would like to request Grobey Shields (aka shield bracer) be allowed to accept least moods flourish now since it no longer has conflicting verbs and the readout on the voucher as to why it can’t be applied is silly… it says it cannot be added because the shield already has a GET verb

#

All items have a get verb.. don’t they? I’ll just locker my least mood voucher till I can use it…

exotic kiln
errant elbow
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It isn’t getting the item, per se, it’s when a script intercepts getting the thing to do something.

covert tendon
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Well how do we make this work?

zealous wigeon
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burn it!

errant elbow
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I can look at the script again, but if i am remembering right, the issue was that there wasn’t a way for least moods to know if the shield had been picked up, so it would never fire its ambients.

covert tendon
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What’s that sir? <pulls out a comically large can of bug spray>

zealous wigeon
#

hey hey hey, slow down!

covert tendon
#

Well technically a shield can be worn too… why not have its ambients forever active?

#

I can code… you can code… let’s put our brains together and work a solution. There has to be something we can do. I can’t be the only one dying to install moods on my shield

zealous wigeon
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make ezscript a flourish and then ezscript it

covert tendon
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Ezscript what? The flag for holding the shield?

zealous wigeon
#

your grobey, then you can just write a lich script to do your ezscript actions on a random timer, everybody wins!

covert tendon
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You just suggested the wish dot com least moods to me sir… I give you a B for creativity

zealous wigeon
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Temu!

covert tendon
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Even if we make Least work for grobey side A we have to make it work for grobey side B… I heard they are two items in one.

errant elbow
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Yea. That’s the other problem. 😂

#

Grobey is on my radar, it hasn’t been forgotten.

covert tendon
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Let me help you with it… I’ll do whatever it takes.

zealous wigeon
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$$$

gloomy wren
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What about moving blink from script to flourish? (And making it work with bard spells.)

worldly egret
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I understand this is the place to request script updates to flourishes. If it hasn't been brought up already, I'd like to request greater moods be convertible to a flourish, like what was done with lesser>least moods.

exotic kiln
worldly egret
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Thanks!

covert storm
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Out of curiosity, did anyone end up choosing Summoning Lore Flares?

gilded ingot
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🦗

tranquil turtle
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no summoning, but I am eventually thinking of doing religion now that that's an option

leaden narwhal
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I am considering summoning lore in the long term on my bow since it's my designated undead killer anyway being a former GUB, but that will probably several DRs from now when I save up for the second active flourish unlock. It's currently Flare Affinity, and it feels like more value to keep FA active in the near term and instead I put Lore Flares - Earth on my secondary blink weapon. I'm glad for the option to toggle, but as of yet I'm too used to the boosted flares to forgo them. Not to mention I get double value from FA because I have the bane flares too. So until the bow can have both, it gets none

wispy light
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Holding out for manipulation, and the 2x flourish add is too rich for my blood.

covert storm
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I am receiving some feedback that it is confusing that Summoning Lore only works on undead and is a carbon copy of Religion, and I think this is very reasonable feedback

wheat hollow
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Make Summoning do all maybe? Like the elemental ones

wispy light
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fwiw, I don't understand from a lore perspective why summoning would only work on undead. But maybe I don't understand summoning. That said, they should rtm before buying.

tranquil turtle
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yeah I'm not sure why summoning was originally chosen as the undead-only option - religion makes way more sense there

fast tapir
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Is there something about summoning or religion that makes it worth losing benefits for half of the creatures?

covert storm
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It does extra DoT damage and has extra DoT cycles

#

Quite a bit extra

fast tapir
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Awesome, thanks

covert storm
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After hearing feedback from players the last few days. Summoning lore flares will be changed. They will work on all targets, not just on undead, and have reduced damage like elemental flares. The messaging will also be made distinct.

#

The damage type will remain plasma

leaden narwhal
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Oof. That’s kind of a bummer for rangers in particular that were interested in the anti-undead version, due to restrictions on lore training. Because we can only 1x spiritual, there’s no viable way to go for religion lore to get the anti-undead version.

Thematically I think the change makes sense, but I think there are deeper implications.

exotic kiln
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Sounds like a great argument for 2x lores on semis!

covert storm
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One thought - what if it did more damage on undead than elemental flares, but less damage on living than elemental flares?

exotic kiln
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We're just talking hp damage from the dot? Not touching the initial flare crit?

covert storm
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Correct. Hypothetically

exotic kiln
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Can you also add in a message saying they're resisting some of the damage to add to the scroll? 😂

gloomy wren
warm jasper
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I would like that, but I am not the target market for this.
Regarding religion vs summoning, undead vs living: Elanthia lore goes both ways on this with Smite vs Bane already. Half the pantheon does more damage to undead (Smite), other half to living (Bane), and there are individual Akarti who are the reverse of their pantheon (Charl)

leaden narwhal
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Well, I do still think that the theme pivot you have in place makes the most sense still. I don’t think summoning relates to undead vs living. My main hitch is that because these things are lore based, and intra-lore limitations are not equal, there are equity problems. Maybe that’s fine. There is some irony in the fact that in most cases it seems preferable to pick a lore flare that isn’t one of your class primary lores

gloomy wren
covert storm
warm jasper
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I do like the more vs undead, less vs living/other suggestion, as it’s not a 50/50 split. There’s also elementsls, golem/constructs, demons, and probably more

leaden narwhal
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Like I mentioned earlier, I went with rock (not on my bow) for that reason as well. But this change does totally nuke the plans I posted above. Certainly not the end of the world, just want to offer feedback. I just won’t double down on the undead killer aspect of my bow. At the end of the day I just want more flares, it’s okay if it’s not the most powerful option

covert storm
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I appreciate the feedback!

leaden narwhal
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I’m just glad DotFlares were able to break out of their cage. I always wanted some, but RoTFlares never fit my character. Now there are options, and that is an absolute win

fast tapir
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I assume it would be less powerful vs undead than religion like somewhere inbetween otherwise religion wouldn't make much sense

covert storm
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It's tough, because as time goes on and more folks acquire Summoning Lore Flares, it will be harder to change them (unless the change is purely a buff). So to some extent it makes sense to make the change sooner rather than later, if it is going to be made

warm jasper
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Choosing a lore off-class does prevent conflict with training for your class, but it then limits the item to a capped character. There are solid benefits event at 25 ranks (or zero?). Mid level characters can enjoy the flare flair too

#

I mean, the limiting factor here is real life $. Spenders here surely have capped chars (probably a favorite), but lower level as well. There are no level requirements on these, right?

covert storm
gilded ingot
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It won’t cease being amusing the entire thing was conceived as specifically a thematically appropriate matching script flare and given the chance players decided to spend a few million in enhancives and millions of exp in a skill that makes little to no sense thematically

covert storm
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Another thing to consider is that the base flare rate is 25% - for casting and swinging - which is much higher than the standard flare rate. So even without lores, it's a very strong flare compared to ordinary flares

warm jasper
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Yup. But if you are 4x cap and have TPS with nothing else to spend them on... why not? (I have no one quadruple capped)
I personally would use one of the lores I have at a threshold available, but... these are at a pricepoint I can't justify or rationalize. My brain doesn't shut off at the math and currency conversions. That's my choice with my lifestyle and not a comment on anyone else. (Yet, if they were half the cost, I would have to try real hard... and probably fail... and not planning for something for next DR as a replacement for the holy fire flares I can never have on my paladin's main weapon)

warm jasper
covert storm
leaden narwhal
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Seems like the messaging changed from when the [pinned examples](#1271828082059382904 message) were shared:

   ... 25 points of damage!
   Strong blow breaks neck!
The wart-covered vor'taz's horn dims as his lifeforce fades away.```

```The ground trembles violently, pelting an immense gold-bristled hinterboar again with heavy debris and stone!
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Strike glances off the chest.
   ... 19 points of damage!```

I still dig it, only raising the point to make sure it's intentional
covert storm
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I think that what we're going to go with is that Summoning will summon a whip of plasma, hit all targets, and have reduced damage against living targets and increased damage against undead targets (but not as high as religion)

#

Something like this: A radiant mist surrounds a dark spikestar, unfurling into a whip of plasma that wreathes a giant rat in its sizzling embrace!

gloomy wren
wispy light
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Sounds like an excellent change/compromise.

covert storm
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And to be clear, the damage increase/decrease will only affect the DoT - not the acute flare

leaden narwhal
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I would personally prefer to see a different damage type, having two plasmas feels like it's leaving something on the table. BUT, I also have a goal of diversifying my own flare types so I admit that I'm likely biased on this matter. But I think it's a cool compromise nonetheless 👍

wheat hollow
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I’m not worried about the dot, so Air is best for me. Smack em all. The initial crit is going to be way more of my damage in general

gilded ingot
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there's what... 15 damage types or so.

wheat hollow
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Unless it’s a wyrm or invasion mob, etc, almost everything dies in a couple hits, so I won’t be seeing the DoT really

exotic kiln
# gloomy wren Can you provide a list of all the official names, messaging and damage types? I... 
** A sickly green aura radiates from a ghezyte long bow with a thorn-carved scarlet despanal set in its limbs and seeps into a banded cave worm's wounds! **
    ** A sickly green aura radiates from a [WEAPON] and seeps into [VICTIM] wounds! **
    
    Darkened sores form all over [TARGET], leaking ooze leaks from the fresh wounds.
    [TARGET] skin cracks open and oozes an inky black ichor.
    Rotting ulcers spread across [TARGET] body.
    Abscesses drain a bloody yellow fluid across [TARGET] body.
    [TARGET] loses [TARGET] balance.
    Skin peels off [TARGET] body, exposing rotting flesh.
    A fierce rash spreads across [TARGET] body.
    Rotting skin falls from [TARGET] body in large flakes.
    [TARGET] breathing appears to be labored.
    Blisters form on [TARGET] skin and ooze a putrid dark yellow fluid.
    Small pieces of flesh rot off [TARGET] body.

Necromancy + dot messages. weapon long is displayed in that flare message.

void tartan
gilded ingot
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I mean if you wanted to get super annoyingly complex for summoning in trying to differntiate it could do something like plasma against undead and i dunno, crush or impact on living

leaden narwhal
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Man, thanks to this convo I've been mentally reviewing my damage type coverage - I have way more overlap that I thought. Current coverage on my ranger's gear is: fire (magma,firewheel,holy fire), lightning (firewheel), disruption (animal spirit, starsong), disintegration (bane), crush (water, air flares?), puncture (battle standard), impact (leg greaves), slash (slashing strikes), grapple (briar).

Missing acid, cold, slash, grapple, plasma, steam, vacuum, unbalance. I am a failure!

Also my air flares are crush damage, lulz.

void tartan
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** Chunks of earth violently orbit a perfect starsong warblade with a ribbon-wrapped mithril hilt, pelting a human thief with heavy debris and stone! **
Oh yes, it incorporates the entire long description. More words, more screen scroll! squee

covert storm
#

Availability
Lore Flares are available at Duskruin at upstairs HESS. Once purchased, the certificate can be TURNed to select the desired flare before applying to your armament via RAISE. Lore Flares work on runestaves, weapons, UCS gloves and UCS boots.

Flare Rate

Lore   Rate
0      25%
36     33%
105    50%
171    100%

**DoT Damage Increase Thresholds: ** 10, 21, 36, 55, 78, 105, 136, 171
**DoT Extra Cycle Thresholds: ** 10, 21, 78, 136, 171

The above thresholds are all hard thresholds, with no gains in between thresholds.

Air

  • Valid Targets: All Foes
  • Initial Critical Damage: Vacuum
  • DoT Damage Profile: Reduced Damage

A fierce whirlwind erupts around a coraesine spikestar, encircling a giant rat in a suffocating cyclone!
The cyclone whirls around a giant rat anew, a suffocating force of nature!
The cyclone surrounding a giant rat dissipates.

Earth

  • Valid Targets: All Foes
  • Initial Critical Damage: Impact
  • DoT Damage Profile: Reduced Damage

Chunks of earth violently orbit a coraesine spikestar, pelting a giant rat with heavy debris and stone!
The ground trembles violently, pelting a giant rat again with heavy debris and stone!
The ground ceases its trembling around a giant rat.

#

Fire

  • Valid Target: All Foes
  • Initial Critical Damage: Heat
  • DoT Damage Profile: Reduced Damage

A blazing inferno erupts around a coraesine spikestar, engulfing a giant rat and scorching everything in its wake!
The inferno blazing around a giant rat ignites anew, unleashing more waves of scorching heat!
The flames engulfing a giant rat burn themselves out.

Water

  • Valid Targets: All Foes
  • Initial Critical Damage: Krush
  • DoT Damage Profile: Reduced Damage

A watery deluge erupts violently around a coraesine spikestar, crushing a giant rat with relentless force!
The water surrounding a giant rat churns anew, rough waters roiling towards it!
The water surrounding a giant rat evaporates into a fine mist.

Religion

  • Valid Targets: Undead
  • Initial Critical Damage: Plasma
  • DoT Damage Profile: Full Damage

Divine flames kindle around a coraesine spikestar, leaping forth to engulf a wraith in a sacred inferno!
The sacred inferno surrounding a wraith ignites anew, searing it with divine fire!
The sacred flames around a wraith dim and extinguish.

#

Summoning

  • Valid Targets: All Foes
  • Initial Critical Damage: Plasma
  • DoT Damage Profile: Unique (25% weaker than elemental flares against the living, 25% stronger than elemental flares against undead)

A radiant mist surrounds a coraesine spikestar, unfurling into a whip of plasma that wreathes a giant rat in its sizzling embrace!
The whip of plasma continues to wreathe a giant rat in its sizzling embrace!
The whip of plasma surrounding a giant rat unravels and dissolves into vapor.

Necromancy

  • Valid Targets: Foes with Blood
  • Initial Critical Damage: Disruption
  • DoT Damage Profile: Full Damage (uses disease effect, so most damage is hidden)

A sickly green aura radiates from a coraesine spikestar and seeps into a giant rat's wounds!
<ongoing message is variable>
A giant rat suddenly looks much better.

Telepathy

  • Valid Targets: Living Foes
  • Initial Critical Damage: Puncture
  • DoT Damage Profile: Full Damage

Rippling and half-seen, strands of psychic power unravel from the coraesine spikestar to strike at a giant rat!
Locked in mental durance, a giant rat is assailed by some unseen attack!
A giant rat appears less distracted by an unseen mental durance.

exotic kiln
#

Lore Flares produce a single initial attack upon the flare triggering, followed by damage over time (DoT) that repeats approximately every 3 seconds.
This is not correct for all anyways. I only tested summoning, but the first dot tick is 2 seconds after the initial flare. Ticks 2-7 are 10 seconds apart.
I don't think any of them trigger every 3 seconds unless rot does, which ironically I haven't timed it.

gilded ingot
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COMBO BREAKER
damn it

void tartan
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I guess I'd better go with the [50 Earth from enhancives plus 20 Earth from Ascension] plan instead of the [50 Earth from Ascension plus 20 Earth from enhancives] plan I've been intending to run with for ages, since the latter might take another year and the former just takes silver.

leaden narwhal
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Yeah I've already got some HESS nugget redemptions in for earth lore enhancives lol. Gonna be wearing a few runestaves on my ears!

exotic kiln
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Can head be horns? heh

covert storm
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I did need the three posts!

covert storm
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Hopefully someone will create a table so those are easier to compare...

vague lance
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coraesine spikestar good choice

wispy light
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That summoning change is pretty good looking at it.

rigid bridge
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A look of despair spreads across Nyxustest's face an instant before he turns and vomits noisily onto the ground.

Something is wrong with your clone.

exotic kiln
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green death got em

halcyon oxide
#

Cross posting, but there is now a large flourished table in test that has a certificate on it that can be used to try out lore flares. It's in TSC for landing

gloomy wren
halcyon oxide
#

Flare Affinity and Rage Armor certs are now also available on the flourished table

trim valley
#

This was some fun with 1106 on the test server - telepathy flares, summoning flares, fire flares, ensorcelling and battle standard Zelia flares all going off on a single cast: ```Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a lithe veiled sentinel.
You concentrate intently on a lithe veiled sentinel, and a pulse of pearlescent energy ripples toward her!
CS: +553 - TD: +417 + CvA: +25 + d125: +39 == +200
Warding failed!
The veiled sentinel shudders with severe convulsions as pearlescent ripples envelop her body.
The veiled sentinel is crushed for 50 points of damage!
... 20 points of damage!
Good blow to right arm!
... 20 points of damage!
Good blow to back!

** Necrotic energy from your storm surita runestaff overflows into you! **

You feel empowered!

** Rippling and half-seen, strands of psychic power unravel from the runestaff to strike at a lithe veiled sentinel! **
... 10 points of damage!
Well aimed shot almost removes an eye!

** A radiant mist surrounds a star-strewn storm surita runestaff capped with a golden glimaerstone, unfurling into a whip of plasma that wreathes a lithe veiled sentinel in its sizzling embrace! **
... 20 points of damage!
Intense arc of energy flays the veiled sentinel's arm to the bone!
The sentinel's bronze cutlass falls to the ground.

** A blazing inferno erupts around a star-strewn storm surita runestaff capped with a golden glimaerstone, engulfing a lithe veiled sentinel and scorching everything in its wake! **
... 1 point of damage!
Minor burns to left hand. Ouch.

** A bewildering frenzy of silver spins around the veiled sentinel in a dizzying assault, moon-bright and night-dark by turns! **
... 15 points of damage!
Burst of flames to left leg blackens kneecap.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

wispy light
#

I'm going to hold out for the (hopefully) manipulation flares. But yeah the summoning is tempting now.

dusky temple
#

the flare rates based on lores the same for runestaves and melee weapons? Am I understanding that if I have 105 ranks in the matching lore I should have a 50% chance for the flare to activate on spells as well?

wispy light
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Yep, it's lore dependent, not weapon dependent.

covert storm
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and DoT Extra Cycle Thresholds

dusky temple
# wispy light Yep, it's lore dependent, not weapon dependent.

I know RNG and all that, but its not feeling like 50% using spells
Elemental Lore - Water.............| 204 104

I guess I'm also making the assumption that like rot, its not breakpoints, but an even progression with 50% exactly being 105, and 104 being like 49 or whatever

exotic kiln
#

So the there are 2 ticks of the dot with no lore?

covert storm
#

So you'll need one more rank to see the benefit

#

I'll add a note about that in my post

gilded ingot
# 
A translucent shell appears around the cerebralite, absorbing most of the blow.
The psychic energy surrounding a glistening cerebralite intensifies the attack!
   ... 10 points of damage!
   ... 29 points of damage!
The glistening cerebralite disintegrates into a festering puddle of viscous fluid.```

1210 amps every dot tick. If you're just looking to maximize spam. You're welcome.
floral schooner
#

Could you possibly work with HWs dev to allow some of these to work against the Wyrm o_o? Just seems weird that mind wrack works but the psychic lore flare doesn't >_>

dusky temple
#

hmm maybe I misunderstood what I'm reading on the wiki for Rotflares, or maybe its just wrong. Thank you for the clarification though!

gilded ingot
#

I don't think anyone cares about the wyrm until its actual update for when gemstones are ready. Which i'm hopeful will remove "i'm immune to everything, including entire classes' forms of attacks, and have too much td to even be touched by most people even with exceptional gear" as a whole.

covert storm
#

Does plasma not typically proc the shield?

#

What does and does not proc the shield?

dusty pendant
#

Here’s a mechanical question — will a character average more kills/faster by adding LoreFlares with no lore training, or adding FA? Which is the better mechanical add?

exotic kiln
#

FA

gloomy wren
#

It feels like it's been 6 months or so since the last test and things have changed a few times when it comes to the wyrm. The only thing that really worked was weapon damage from a warrior with 800-1000 AS.

A lot of the spells/flares/etc were either blocked, or heavily reduced in damage.

dusky temple
#

I'll keep at it for a bit longer, but I just bumped up to:
Elemental Lore - Water.............| 207 107
and I'm going 8-9 casts w/ hits without seeing flares
In test, with a tier 1 spore staff + douseflares
Just went 30 casts no flare.

rigid bridge
#

Oh wait it was 2. Way to much scroll. =p

dusty pendant
#

Nyxus, are you able to tell, and share, whether firewheel flares have the same flare rate as standard flares, or whether the rate is reduced to accommodate for the chance for the double flare?

I ask because it’s relevant to the question of FA used on firewheel weapon.

rigid bridge
#

Is the initial lore flare damage suppose to be this low? I have 171 telepathy lore. The DoT is solid but seeing mostly 1, 5, 10 dmg for the flare hit.

   ... 5 points of damage!
   Minor puncture to the back.```
exotic kiln
#

It should be able to be a Rank 1 - 9.

dusky temple
#

lol I died and I guess that maybe reset the script and now it seems to be flaring much more frequently

wispy light
#

Douseflares, only one death required.

dusky temple
#

probably because I trained while holding the weapon out to reach the break point. I didn't stow it or anything to maybe refresh it checking? who knows
Could even be streaky GS RNG

covert storm
covert storm
exotic kiln
#

Maybe rot flares are unique? I've gotten ranks 8 and 9 based on the damage.
Which is a good reason not to convert imo if lore flares are limited to rank 7. I should update my tracking to append crit rank to the damage.

floral schooner
#

As far as I can tell every base damage flare procs it. Mindwrack and intimidation don't. Pretty much anything that doesn't apply damage initially.

rigid bridge
#

I've seen a few 25 dmg hits but the vast majority of the telepathy lore initial flare hits are dealing 5 to 10 damage. The initial damage feels weaker than the paladin standard.

dusky temple
#

Thanks for putting these back on test. flaring seems to be working just fine now. Greatly appreciate the information and availability to test provided before purchasing

rigid bridge
#

Oh wait, the damage probably stinks because its using puncture critical table and certain mobs are fairly resistant to puncture. I was hunting in the hive and I think kiramon are pretty resistant to puncture damage

covert storm
#

I was wondering about that, but I'm not familiar enough with them that I felt confident in suggesting it

rigid bridge
#

Don't suppose telepathy could be changed to unbalance...?
Or maybe even grapple?
** Rippling and half-seen, strands of psychic power unravel from the mace to strike at a large mountain lion! **
Either of those make a bit more sense with the updated messaging and they're more neutral in creature resistance

trim valley
#

Does the flare rate actually increase incrementally between those break points, or is it only when you reach the new point? Like, if you have 170 ranks instead of 171 - do you have 50% flare rate? Or somewhere in-between 50% and 100%?

image.png
dusky temple
#

no benefit between breakpoints:
#1271828082059382904 message

trim valley
#

I should've searched more. Thanks, Ordim.

dusky temple
#

No worries, I just asked that while messing with them on test server right now. They are also back on test server at TSC on the table. If you mess with them, you might have to die to see the change in lores lol

gloomy wren
#

Doesn't puncture have more kills than unbalance or grapple

rigid bridge
#

Not sure, telepathy won't hurt undead though so Moonsedge is out. The best places in HW is out.

Category: Game Design Discussions
Topic: Creatures & Suggestions for New Creatures
Message #: 5572
Author: GS4-MESTYS
Date: 3/12/2010 11:05:18 PM
Subject: Puncture Immune No More.
After a fairly regular regimen of scoldings and beatings, creatures of Elanthia that formerly exhibited an immunity to puncture damage will do so no longer. These outright immunities have been replaced with resistances of varying magnitude, depending on the creature. In general, bony creatures and arachnids will be the most resistant to puncture damage, while other creatures with thick hides will be less resistant.```

So left with the hive.
#

I'm sticking with telepathy because I'm an empath and was already heavy into it for 1117, but I imagine most folks are going to choose a lore flare that suits their profession and hunting ground.

gloomy wren
#

Definitely some interesting trade-offs.

rigid bridge
#

Was the ship graveyard teased at Simucon going to be ascension capped or just a hunting zone? I want to say capped

covert storm
#

Ascension capped

rigid bridge
#

At least the wyrm isn't undead

# 
damage_values = []

# Method to calculate the average of the damage values
def calculate_average(damage_values)
  return 0 if damage_values.empty?
  damage_values.sum / damage_values.size.to_f
end

# Loop to monitor game lines
while true
  line = get

  # Check if the line contains the "Rippling and half-seen" phrase
  if line =~ /Rippling and half-seen, strands of psychic power unravel from the mace to strike at/
    # The next line contains the damage number, so we need to capture that
    damage_line = get
    if damage_line =~ /\.\.\. (\d+) points? of damage!/
      # Extract the damage number from the line
      damage = damage_line.match(/\.\.\. (\d+) points? of damage!/)[1].to_i

      # Add the damage to our array
      damage_values << damage

      # Calculate and display the average damage
      average_damage = calculate_average(damage_values)
      echo "New damage recorded: #{damage}. Current average damage: #{average_damage.round(2)}"
    end
  end
end```
I think this is working if anyone wants to track average damage of their flare line.
trim valley
#

I'd prefer if the wyrm were undead, personally. Is there a way to summon it on the test server? Besides the "special" way from live.

floral schooner
#

I mean... You can make an Undead Wyrm, assuming you can kill one with a necro ring and it actually summons the spectral variant.

glad socket
#

i just wanna say, it's really cool to actually have the full lore breakpoints/threshholds for these now, we've just mostly guessed things out with rotflares, but due to not actually being able to "see" the disease damage they've always been hard to know when the dots increased

floral schooner
#

They were wise to not release them, they know what you lot do with numbers XD

exotic kiln
# 
necromancy:
  ABDOMEN:
  - 60 => {:type=>"DISRUPTION", :location=>"ABDOMEN", :rank=>8, :damage=>60, :position=>nil,
    :fatal=>true, :stunned=>0, :amputated=>false, :crippled=>false, :sleeping=>false,
    :dazed=>false, :limb_favored=>false, :roundtime=>0, :silenced=>false, :slowed=>false,
    :wound_rank=>3, :secondary_wound=>nil, :regex=>/.*?'s stomach rips through flesh
    and explodes./}
  LEFT_HAND:
  - 30 => {:type=>"DISRUPTION", :location=>"LEFT_HAND", :rank=>6, :damage=>30, :position=>nil,
    :fatal=>false, :stunned=>3, :amputated=>false, :crippled=>false, :sleeping=>false,
    :dazed=>false, :limb_favored=>false, :roundtime=>0, :silenced=>false, :slowed=>false,
    :wound_rank=>2, :secondary_wound=>nil, :regex=>/.*?'s thumb explodes in a shower
    of flesh and bone fragments./}

Here's a rank 8 from rot. Updated the script to parse the crit line instead of guessing based off damage.

wispy light
glad socket
#

just some of them not all

wispy light
#

I mean, all of them at the time, but the 136 changed to 105 at some point and wasn't. It's amusing to me that no one even knows when it was changed, dev included, based on the announcement they made.

glad socket
#

i mean I bet it was always 105, and that original comment was wrong, because 136 is another dot increase

wispy light
covert storm
#

Flare Affinity will be updated to provide +25 AS / +15 CS to acuity flares

wispy light
#

You trying to bankrupt me?

proven thunder
#

could i get that for my non runestaff also?

tame spear
warm jasper
glad socket
#

20x acuity flares hmmmmmmmmm

#

those certs are still on test right? is there a cert to do the double combat flourishes out on test too?

rigid bridge
# 
[tracker: Average Damage: 12.51]
[tracker: Median Damage: 10.0]
[tracker: Standard Deviation: 8.2]
[tracker: Damage Distribution:]
[tracker: 0-9: 221 hits]
[tracker: 10-19: 235 hits]
[tracker: 20-29: 135 hits]
[tracker: 30-39: 35 hits]
[tracker: ]


[tracker: Telepathy dot Flare Statistics:]
[tracker: Average Damage: 80.04]
[tracker: Median Damage: 80]
[tracker: Standard Deviation: 8.24]
[tracker: Damage Distribution:]
[tracker: 60-69: 14 hits]
[tracker: 70-79: 29 hits]
[tracker: 80-89: 41 hits]
[tracker: 90-99: 15 hits]```

Put this in the wrong channel earlier.  Some data on telepathy flares for those interested.
void tartan
dusky temple
#

shocked there isn't a break point between 50 and 100, but I guess maybe thats kinda the point too

warm jasper
#

Dot damage increase thresholds are at 55 and 78, plus an extra cycle at 78

glad socket
void tartan
# 
I was thinking about if Blessings should be a copy as well, but I kind of liked some of the ideas that folks had for Blessings being distinct```
wispy light
#

I'd actually be shocked if the rest of the lores don't get a flare next DR. My reading of the yes/yes was all the flares for this DR were available, and they would be back next DR.

glad socket
#

yeah, re-reading it I think that's right

remote comet
#

anyone buy the lore cert yet? does it let you pick religion?

covert storm
remote comet
#

when you get a second slot for flourish, do you get to pick what you want in there or you gotto buy it separately?

leaden narwhal
#

lol. Brute is captain of being out of the loop.

wispy light
#

#development-announcements message

remote comet
#

always!

warm jasper
#

In the pins, too

wispy light
#

It's like why LMGTFY was invented. I need that for GS.

remote comet
#

I do see it, just double checking cause last I heard they were gonna be identical with summoning

#

i kinda prefer the summoning ones way more, religion not working on living is weak

leaden narwhal
#

Yep, then apparently enough feedback was raised as to how summoning didn't make sense as the anti-undead flare (it didn't) so it was moved to be the everything-normal like the elemental ones, but then somebody (me) raised a stink about how certain professions (rangers) can only 1x lores and thereby can't really opt into religion lore viably and thus don't get the choice of an anti-undead flavor, and this is the compromise that was struck.

remote comet
#

summoning is just an objectively better flare right now
you pick religion, it only works on undead... and does less damage to undead than summoning... like what?

exotic kiln
#

paladins and bards feel left out

leaden narwhal
#

Eh, it has tradeoffs. It's now the weakest of any vs the living (barring ones that can't hit living)

You're reading it wrong. Summoning does less than religion vs undead, and less than elemental vs living. It's the middle ground.

remote comet
exotic kiln
#

the second half of your sentence is wrong, may have typed it wrong, summoning does less than religion to undead

remote comet
#

it literally says it does 25% more to undead

lores.png
leaden narwhal
#

25% stronger than baseline, which is the elemental flares. I agree that the wording is confusing there though.

exotic kiln
#

Thats comparing them to elemental. Not to religion.
#event-announcements message

leaden narwhal
#

Religion should read boosted damage instead of "full damage" IMO, and the elemental ones should read normal damage instead of reduced (they're the baseline)

void tartan
#

I can see why the confusion, though. Edit: Yeah, either what Kaetel said or just change the Summoning line to say Altered Reduced Damage or something... 🤔

remote comet
#

this is a convoluted way to describe them

exotic kiln
#

They're kind of in a weird spot that was made to accommodate them.

floral schooner
#

20x acuity, dear god you're driving me to financial ruin 🥹

remote comet
#

so "25% stronger vs undead" is somehow less than "full damage"? less by how much? how are you supposed to compare these

leaden narwhal
# 
Air    All Foes    Vacuum    Normal Damage
Earth    All Foes    Impact    Normal Damage
Fire    All Foes    Heat    Normal Damage
Water    All Foes    Krush    Normal Damage
Summoning    All Foes    Plasma    Unique Damage (25% weaker living, 25% stronger undead)
Religion    Undead Foes    Plasma    Extra Damage
Telepathy    Living Foes    Puncture    Extra Damage
Necromancy    Foes with Blood    Disruption    Extra Damage (Using disease effect, hidden damage)```

^ This is how I would classify them
dusky temple
#

whats the difference between crush and krush

exotic kiln
#

Undead target -> Religion -> Summoning -> Elemental
Living target -> Rot -> Elemental -> Summoning

leaden narwhal
void tartan
remote comet
#

how much more does religion do to undead vs summoning? it better be quite a bit to give up flares on the living entirely

dusky temple
remote comet
leaden narwhal
# remote comet it would help it if was described in terms of % rather than arbitrary adjectives...

Yeah, I think the intial confusion is that because DotFlares originated from RotFlares, it is sort of posed as the baseline for the table you see on the wiki now. But with the summoning lore change it doesn't make nearly as much sense anymore

Also entirely possible that they're actually programmatically built as a reduced damage profile, and necromancy is in fact the baseline from which they're mathed 😆

void tartan
#

Air, Earth, Fire, Water: Baseline Damage
Summoning: 75% Baseline Damage living, 125% Baseline Damage undead
Religion, Telepathy, Necromancy: Bonus Damage

(Assuming that's what "25% weaker" and "25%" stronger mean, anyway. Semantics can get off when language and math mix.)

remote comet
floral schooner
#

Ah, so that's why psychic works on the wyrm. Its puncture damage.

void tartan
# remote comet what is "bonus damage"

Well, that's the problem: we have no idea because they've never told us. 🤣 (Or if they have, then I'm not aware.) They've just said it's more than the elemental flares.

leaden narwhal
#

Yeah all we've gotten are relative values.

dusky temple
#

Rotflares have two dots effectively, a disease effect that you can't see the numbers, and an obvious DoT like the rest

remote comet
#

I'm trying to wrap my head around "bonus damage" vs "125% of normal damage" and why one would want to give up ALL flares on the living to pick the former.

dusky temple
#

hunting ground, favorite targets, class and access to lores. lotta factors.

remote comet
#

we have no numbers to compare, this is just meaningless

exotic kiln
#

To be clear, the difference in damage is purely the hp damage from the dot.

wispy light
void tartan
#

I want to hit everything too and don't care about the DoTs nearly as much as the initial hit anyway, so I'd never pick Religion/Telepathy/Necromancy lores myself.

It's true that people post rotflare clips that are way more impressive than anything I've ever seen from the elemental lores, but usually it only matters in the context of invasions or whatever. They shine in situations where the DoTs actually have time to fire off all their rounds (and possibly on multiple creatures at once) because everything has 5000 health and is uncrittable, not against normal creatures that die in 1-3 attacks.

remote comet
#

dot doesn't matter anyway so just pick among air, water, earth, fire or summoning so they still work on everything for that initial 10% kill chance

proven thunder
#

just pick the lore that helps 515 to channel

remote comet
#

you need open hand to channel

leaden narwhal
#

Runestaff users have an open hand

proven thunder
#

515 channel might be a special case

dusky temple
#

whats channeling going to do?

leaden narwhal
#

For a warding spell, the caster will be treated as if they were in offensive stance for the purposes of determining the bonus from channeling.

remote comet
#

still won't channel without an open hand, pretty sure I tested it a while ago

leaden narwhal
#

What do you have in your left hand? Are you holding a shield? The bonus isn't something you see in the resolution formula, it's hidden.

remote comet
#

yep shield user

proven thunder
#

Training in Air Lore provides a chance, based on a seed 1 summation of ranks, to cause an attack spell to be resolved using CHANNEL formulas (instead of a normal CAST) to determine damage or critical location. For a warding spell, the caster will be treated as if they were in offensive stance for the purposes of determining the bonus from channeling. (This effect is automatic and does not require the caster to manually CHANNEL, it simply converts a CAST to a CHANNEL.)since it doesn't require u to manually channel maybe it skips the open hand too Seeing an opportunity, you accelerate time and empower your spell! just look for message

remote comet
#

shouldn't the messaging differ when it triggers? I've been at 106 air lore for years and never seen any different messaging

#

Seeing an opportunity, you accelerate time and empower your spell yeah that never happens

proven thunder
#

plus make sure the spell you're using could be channel

wispy light
#

Wait, you're using runestaff shield?

remote comet
#

i dont' wanna talk about it

proven thunder
#

and you don't always have to use a shield and runestaff so the bonus to channel is pretty huge especially for a cleric. getting air lore u don't lose out on much either and helps when you decide to use your 506 one day

rigid bridge
#

Anyone with elemental lore flares able to test a lich script tracker please?

wispy light
#

Well, if you're holding a shield, you aren't treated as one hand open, because it's not...

leaden narwhal
remote comet
proven thunder
#

u probably won't even notice with rapid

dusky temple
#

when I finally got the breakpoint working, 50% felt pretty good

covert storm
#

I think it’s more clear

remote comet
#

can we have a mathematical relationship between "125% damage" and "boosted damage"?

proven thunder
#

u shop like a woman

remote comet
#

it's a 1.4m bs add for me! gotto be sure it's worth it

proven thunder
#

why 1.4? u already have the affinity no?that 1m should include the lore

remote comet
#

1m for slot +400k for loer flares?

proven thunder
#

affinity count as a flourish right? so the second one is the lore which should be included for 1m?

remote comet
#

i don't think it does come with lore? at least the comments above said have to buy it separate

exotic kiln
#

Yeah they're not feeling generous on this one.

dusky temple
#

I don't think there has been an official answer, but its assumed you don't get the flourish with the slot or it would say that

exotic kiln
#

The unlock, unlocks you, not the weapon. So you can use it on any weapon with multiple flourishes. I may have read it wrong.

proven thunder
#

no way

dusky temple
#

plus someone may unlock it now in prep for next event like EG just in case someone drops a new flavor
is that confirmed NIsugi?

Ignore the martial knowledge thats a typo from the version of the wiki I'm looking at

proven thunder
# 
Service: Add Second Active Combat Flourish```
dusky temple
#

clearly someone is going to have to buy it
I'll take donations from everyone and test it

covert storm
#

Sorry about the confusion. The figurine adds a second combat flourish active slot. The second combat flourish slot must still be purchased separately

glad socket
#

Yeah so 1.4m to add it total

#

hard for me to think, potential 20x acuity is hilarious but like... not actually all that useful, whereas I could fairly easily have 171 earth lore to go with my 171 necro
which is just so much more spam, I'll be getting real close to each cast being over a screen scroll

stoic dune
#

There are only so many lore items left in the shops, everyone trying to get to 171 by any means (Sylinar) necessary....

glad socket
#

i'm a sorcerer, I can 2x sorc/ele/spirit lores

gloomy wren
# covert storm Flare Affinity will be updated to provide +25 AS / +15 CS to acuity flares

I'm going to work on the wiki entry for Flare Affinity.

Can you confirm ...

It works with the following Category B abilities:
Acuity Flares - Yes, new
Cold/Heat/Lightning/Air/Earth - Yes
Disruption/Disintegration/Dispel/Grapple/Plasma/Steam/Unbalance/Water - Yes

Death Flares - ?
Magma Flares - ?
Mana Flares - ?
Mechanical Flares (slash/puncture/crush) - ?
Psychic Flares - ?
Terror Flares - ?

leaden narwhal
#

It always was supposed to have worked with acuity in terms of flare rate. The only new aspect is the additional 5x boost on top. Same as the rest except death flares explicitely don't work, and magma is the same as the standard flares

covert storm
#

Death - no

Everything else should be a yes for rate increase, but mana flares and psychic flares aren’t increased in potency I don’t believe

stoic dune
#

Is a faux pas to ask Nyxus whether he thinks Flare affinity is stronger than elemental lore flares?

glad socket
#

yeah death it does nothing, mana is rate, psychic is rate, magma full, mech full

gloomy wren
#

And it also increases the bane flare?

glad socket
#

yes it affects bane flares per Estild

leaden narwhal
#

Increase in potency = boosting crit rank range from standard 1-7 to 5-9 (before padding)

rigid bridge
# 
[test: Average Damage: 12.25]
[test: Median Damage: 10.0]
[test: Standard Deviation: 8.05]
[test: Damage Distribution:]
[test: 0-9: 489 hits]
[test: 10-19: 547 hits]
[test: 20-29: 284 hits]
[test: 30-39: 77 hits]
[test: ]
[test: Telepathy dot Flare Statistics:]
[test: Average Damage: 80.66]
[test: Median Damage: 81.0]
[test: Standard Deviation: 8.0]
[test: Damage Distribution:]
[test: 60-69: 25 hits]
[test: 70-79: 81 hits]
[test: 80-89: 102 hits]
[test: 90-99: 36 hits]```
Currenct necromancy flares should be very similar to telepathy lore flares for dot damage right?
covert storm
remote comet
#

Death - no
why not super death?

wispy light
#

It would destroy the loot.

remote comet
#

if used on a player they can't log back in for 24 hours

urban bluff
blissful ice
#

Seems like most things are alive . If I was to get Religion lores…. I need assurances they are OP against the undead . Underwriters want paperwork.

vagrant magnet
#

Question, and apologies if it has already been answered. Tried to get Flare Affinitiy last DR - but was not compatibile with Paladin Bonding (perhaps it came in as Sacred Flares?). Is it now possible to add Flare Affinity to Paladin bonded weapons?

warm jasper
#

I believe FA still does not work for the temporary-quasi-permanent flares of guiding light on pally bonds and bard sonic weapons. (I think it probably works if you have a regular Cat B flare on my paladin bonded weapon and didn't use guiding light... but why?)

floral schooner
#

Seems weird death flares don't even get a rate boost. Its a comedy option with many routes to achieve rapid hits for a near 100% flare rate in a round anyway.

covert storm
#

Hey folks. Just a heads up, necromancy lore flares will be updated to use the normal lore flare DoT mechanics rather than a disease effect.

This began when I discovered that the disease effect only triggers every 30 seconds. So this change will update it to every 10 seconds. And the full damage will become visible.

This is a 3x increase in DPS for the DoT, but there is a niche downside. If you were to wait the wait the 10+ minutes for the disease to fully elapse, then the old disease damage would have done more total damage in some cases. Likely the creature would have been long dead before this would occur.

If anyone wants to revert their necromancy lore flares to rotflares to keep the disease effect, please let me know. I suspect that most folks will prefer the 10s tick with visible damage over the 30s tick with hidden damage.

#

The wyrm may be another case where the disease effect could be better, though the wyrm is subject to change so I wouldn’t bank on that.

dusky temple
#

as the wyrm turns

exotic kiln
#

A reason not to convert! Yay

vague lance
#

wow! this is great!

rigid bridge
# 
The fire giant champion glows a ruddy orange as the heat and flames wash over her!```

Fire giants be blocking everything
glad socket
#

hmmm, I'm gonna have to think on the necro update, fairly sure it's a nerf in most use cases to what rotflares was before, due to it still getting the big initial disease hit early (2 seconds) even if you'd almost never get another tick

exotic kiln
#

Yeah it's a big nerf imo. How many things do you fight for 10s+ ? Though I would love to see the damage.

vague lance
#

i would guess, not very many

glad socket
#

would generally prefer leaving it as-is, as we can't potentially add more flourishes + leave as is

#

I know the new formula is better on low-hp critters, so general hunting it's probably better vs the disease, but disease is better against higher hp stuff, so hard to really know

covert storm
covert storm
#

Rotflares: 2s, 30s, 30s, 30s, etc.
Lore Flares: 2s, 10s, 10s, 10s, etc.

glad socket
#

yeah, but the initial tick of that disease is more than the 80ish damage that I've seen from the religion lore, on anything with >600hp

covert storm
#

How much are you seeing from the initial tick of the disease? It should cap at 90, the same as Lore Flares

#

The damage formulas are identical

glad socket
#

umm, I know that's not the case, based on when we were doing wyrm testing it was doing 1000's of damage in like a 60 second fight

covert storm
#

Er, that sounds like a bug 🙂

exotic kiln
#

The first tick is identical, but what about the 30s and 60s ticks? They scale with hp% no?

covert storm
glad socket
#

is it possible the disease is stacking? so the tick at 30s is doing like 30 hits of it?

covert storm
#

They do not scale with hp%

#

That's a good question - let me check

vague lance
#

we used to test this by hitting each other

exotic kiln
#

So before we were told that the disease on rot does a lot more damage. Now you're saying the disease caps out at 90 dmg?

vague lance
#

the disease when i was testing varied based on lore, at 171 it was in the 70s per round dissapting like 1 or 2 per

covert storm
#

Just checked - old rotflares do not stack

glad socket
#

hmm. very curious why it was doing so much on a boss critter

covert storm
#

Yeah, that's puzzling for sure

vague lance
#

there was some variance to the amount of disease though for some reason ; within 10 points

covert storm
#

The only time that old rotflares should do more damage than new necromancy lore flares (after today's announced update) is if you wait 10+ minutes. And the new necromancy lore flares will have 3X higher DPS.

#

The wyrm might be an exception though, due to the shield

glad socket
#

I'm not really all too concerned about the wyrm, since it is slated for a major revamp

exotic kiln
#

Does the new necromancy lore also limit the initial crit to Rank 1-7 unlike the original rot that can do Rank 9?

covert storm
#

Good question. The code for the initial crit is identical

glad socket
#

don't nerf my 50 damage initial crit hits too pls haha

vague lance
#

This seems more to compress the damage into a smaller time span and limit it to sub 10 minutes

covert storm
#

I am wondering if ranks 8-9 were being seen on creatures that were vulnerable to disruption damage. Is that a thing?

glad socket
#

I saw the telepathy lore sheet, and rotflares definitely can crit higher, they cap at 50 damage which I think is rank 9

exotic kiln
covert storm
#

Do you have a log clip of a rank 8 or rank 9 crit? I'd like to check it out. But the long story short is that the code for the initial crit is identical across lore flares and rotflares.

#

Forgive my ignorance of this part of the combat system, by the way 🙂

leaden narwhal
#

My rock flares have hit rank 9 crits on the initial

glad socket
#

yeah let me find some

vague lance
# 

   ... 30 points of damage!
   Vertebrae ripped from body!  The halfling cannibal's head falls into shoulders.```  I think this is one
exotic kiln
# 
03:46:11: [tdusk]>fire #550974006
03:46:11: With lightning fast reflexes, you reach toward the faenor quiver strapped to your thigh and draw out a firewheel arrow, nocking it in your ghezyte long bow.
03:46:11: You take aim and fire a firewheel arrow at a scarred fire giant champion!
03:46:11:   AS: +663 vs DS: +85 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +94 = +702
03:46:11:    ... and hit for 275 points of damage!
03:46:11:    Off-balance slash to the fire giant champion's left arm shatters her elbow.
03:46:11:    *CRUNCH*
03:46:11:  ** Necrotic energy from your ghezyte long bow overflows into you! **
03:46:11:    You feel energized!
03:46:11: Nature's blessing of vitality departs as your strength returns to its previous state.
03:46:11:  ** Cords of plasma-veined grey mist seep from your ghezyte long bow and entangle the fire giant champion, causing her to tremble violently! **
03:46:11: ** A sickly green aura radiates from a ghezyte long bow with a thorn-carved scarlet despanal set in its limbs and seeps into a scarred fire giant champion's wounds! **
03:46:11:    ... 60 points of damage!
03:46:11:    You send a blood clot to the fire giant champion's heart, causing massive damage.
03:46:11: [You have earned 60 prestige points.]
03:46:11: As the fire leaves her eyes, the fire giant champion cries out in pain one last time and expires.
03:46:11: A scarred fire giant champion appears to recover some strength.
03:46:11: A scarred fire giant champion appears less intimidated as a haze of grey mist rises from her and dissipates.
03:46:11: The arrow sticks in a scarred fire giant champion's left arm!
03:46:11: Roundtime: 3 sec.
03:46:11: Roundtime changed to 1 second.
glad socket
# 
   ... 50 points of damage!
   Gaping hole punched through the gnoll ranger's stomach!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.```

this was with converted necro flares, but not post the disease change
covert storm
#

Let me see if I can recreate that with Necromancy Lore Flares

exotic kiln
# 
03:36:23: [tdusk]>fire #550923130
03:36:23: With lightning fast reflexes, you reach toward the faenor quiver strapped to your thigh and draw out a firewheel arrow, nocking it in your ghezyte long bow.
03:36:23: You take aim and fire a firewheel arrow at a thickset orc champion!
03:36:23:   AS: +644 vs DS: +182 with AvD: +20 + d100 roll: +70 = +552
03:36:23:    ... and hit for 114 points of damage!
03:36:23:    Bladder impaled, what a mess!
03:36:23: An earthy, sweet aroma wafts from a thickset orc champion in a murky haze.
03:36:23: Vital energy infuses you, hastening your arcane reflexes!
03:36:23:  ** Cords of plasma-veined grey mist seep from your ghezyte long bow and entangle the orc champion, causing her to tremble violently! **
03:36:23: ** A sickly green aura radiates from a ghezyte long bow with a thorn-carved scarlet despanal set in its limbs and seeps into a thickset orc champion's wounds! **
03:36:23:    ... 70 points of damage!
03:36:23:    Heart explodes rupturing the orc champion's chest.
03:36:23: [You have earned 55 prestige points.]
03:36:23: A thickset orc champion breathes her last gasp and dies.
03:36:23: A thickset orc champion appears to recover some strength.
03:36:23: A thickset orc champion appears less intimidated as a haze of grey mist rises from her and dissipates.
03:36:23: The arrow sticks in a thickset orc champion's abdomen!
03:36:23: Roundtime: 2 sec.
03:36:23: Roundtime changed to 1 second.

Theres an 8 and a 9

leaden narwhal
# 
   ... 70 points of damage!
   Blow to back removes the spinal column!```
glad socket
# 
   ... 60 points of damage!
   The white-haired yeti's stomach rips through flesh and explodes.```
#

so seems like they are all using the same code if people are seeing the same thing with impact and such from rockflares

covert storm
#

I can't share the code, but I promise it is identical 🙂

#

For that initial hit anyway

rigid bridge
# 
[flaretracker: Average Damage: 12.32]
[flaretracker: Median Damage: 10.0]
[flaretracker: Standard Deviation: 8.17]
[flaretracker: Damage Distribution:]
[flaretracker: 0-9: 762 hits]
[flaretracker: 10-19: 816 hits]
[flaretracker: 20-29: 436 hits]
[flaretracker: 30-39: 123 hits]
[flaretracker: ]
[flaretracker: Telepathy dot Flare Statistics:]
[flaretracker: Average Damage: 80.89]
[flaretracker: Median Damage: 81.0]
[flaretracker: Standard Deviation: 8.37]
[flaretracker: Damage Distribution:]
[flaretracker: 100+: 2 hits]
[flaretracker: 60-69: 36 hits]
[flaretracker: 70-79: 141 hits]
[flaretracker: 80-89: 150 hits]
[flaretracker: 90-99: 65 hits]```

Telepathy lore be slumming.  Nothing over 35 period. The max hit is capped at 35.
glad socket
#

it's probably crit randomization, if it deals a rank 7 that can be randomized up to 9 I believe right?

covert storm
# 
G>kill ranger
You swing a dagger at a gnoll ranger!
  AS: +1078 vs DS: +49 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +12 = +1064
   ... and hit for 263 points of damage!
   Wicked slash slices open the gnoll ranger's chest!
   Heart and lungs pureed!
   Sickening!

** A sickly green aura radiates from a dagger and seeps into a gnoll ranger's wounds! **
   ... 60 points of damage!
   You send a blood clot to the gnoll ranger's heart, causing massive damage.
Roundtime: 12 sec.
G>
A gnoll ranger's breathing appears to be labored.
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Side strike shoves the gnoll ranger several feet sideways.
   ... 81 points of damage!

Here is a rank 8 with Necromancy Lore Flares, and the new visible DoT damage

rigid bridge
#

Nyxus when you get the necromancy lores settled could you take a peak at telepathy again? The initial hit seems to be the weakest out of every lore flare, all the elements beat it by a wide margin.

covert storm
#

Sure. Is it weaker generally or just weaker against things that have puncture resistance?

leaden narwhal
#

Looking at damage alone for the initial hit isn't going to tell you much

exotic kiln
#

Was the way the dots are displayed changed? I Thought the dot had 3 damage lines on the other flares

rigid bridge
# covert storm Sure. Is it weaker generally or just weaker against things that have puncture re...

All the statistics I posted are from arena runs which has a wide variety of creatures.

[flaretracker: Telepathy lore Flare Statistics:]
[flaretracker: Average Damage: 12.32]
[flaretracker: Median Damage: 10.0]
[flaretracker: Standard Deviation: 8.17]
[flaretracker: Damage Distribution:]
[flaretracker: 0-9: 762 hits]
[flaretracker: 10-19: 816 hits]
[flaretracker: 20-29: 436 hits]
[flaretracker: 30-39: 123 hits]

vague lance
glad socket
#

yeah I see quite a few rank 8's 9's seem to be very rare, which makes me think it's doing a rank 7 then crit randomization happens, which can make it up and down

leaden narwhal
#

Meaning, puncture just do less damage per crit on average. But also, they have some of the lowest fatal crit thresholds

For example, a rank 9 puncture to the chest (fatal) is only 50 damage. Comparatively, a rank 9 impact to the chest (also fatal) is 70 damage

covert storm
exotic kiln
#

Ah I guess what I was seeing was in test I must be remembering an early tease or previous version of the notrot flares.

rigid bridge
covert storm
#

I guess it's rather confusing for me to say that it's rank 1-7, when in fact it is not after randomization

glad socket
#

well you aren't "wrong" that's what the calc comes out to be, but the final result varies

covert storm
#

That said, I'm not seeing any hits below 10 against this giant rat.

#

Oh, I saw a 5!

rigid bridge
#

But I haven't seen a single fatal in the arena

covert storm
#

That does seem odd

glad socket
#

yeah puncture rank 8's cap out at 40 damage, so they are doing the same crit rank, it's just a different crit

rigid bridge
#

I understand if its a low % but Im at 1,744 flares and there have been zero fatals and not a single flare greater than 35 damage. The cap on damage appears to be 35.

leaden narwhal
#

Champions are jerks and have a fair bit of padding, but obviously they're not the only things you're hitting in the arena. It certainly stands to reason that one would expect at least one rank 8 or 9 crit to head/back/abdomen (where you'd see 40 or 50 damage)

cedar latch
#

Survivor bias?

covert storm
#

I am seeing these somewhat regularly:

** Rippling and half-seen, strands of psychic power unravel from the dagger to strike at a superbuff rat! **
   ... 40 points of damage!
   Beautiful shot pierces both lungs, the superbuff rat makes a wheezing noise, and drops dead!
#

But it is a giant rat 🙂

glad socket
#

yeah that's a rank 8 chest

cedar latch
glad socket
#

very strange to not see at least one fatal though, basically any eye crit with a puncture is gonna be fatal

rigid bridge
#

Let me go slum around in OTF for a bit and see if its just arena creatures

dusty pendant
#

Nyxus, any word on firewheel flare rates, by any chance, please? I know you're tinkering with the actual loreflares, so don't mean to pressure you.

covert storm
#

Ah, yes, sorry about that. Let me check

covert storm
wispy light
#

fwiw, while I'm not upset by the change to rotflares at all because I've never spent more than 45 seconds fighting something since I got them, I do think they should stay the way they were/have been forever. The flourish convert wasn't supposed to change them at all.

cedar latch
#

There's the old damage / killing shot breakdown from my paladin assessment

dusty pendant
#

Just (A). We've had confirmation that FA applies to firewheel before, although I don't know anyone who has applied it yet.

urban bluff
leaden narwhal
#

It does

cedar latch
#

Ability slot. Letters are so 2007

leaden narwhal
# cedar latch

Puncture OP. Doesn't even have to use cheaty nerve crits to inflate itself, just stabbin' eyes like a boss. Imaera 4 Arkati prez

rigid bridge
#

Has anyone else actually bought telepathy lore flares yet?

proven thunder
covert storm
glad socket
# proven thunder is your cursed armor not fully bonded? how come i'm not seeing any flares?

? You gesture at a mottled cave lizard. Dark tendrils lash out from your arming coat and invigorate your resolve! You stare at a mottled cave lizard. CS: +571 - TD: +438 + CvA: +25 + d125: +22 == +180 Warding failed! The cave lizard looks at you in utter terror! The lizard turns and runs screaming into the distance, never to be seen again. Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

rigid bridge
#

Mainly meant to ask what they're seeing flare wise, pretty sure Im the only one in the platinum instance. Not sure if there's some weird interaction because of other gear Im using.

covert storm
glad socket
#

yeah you have me sold

proven thunder
cedar latch
#

Goal is to get telepathy, fire, and Necro flares.... Pokemon

rigid bridge
# 
   ... 1 point of damage!
   Drop of acid gets in the Ithzir adept's eye!  Better flush it out.
   ... 76 points of damage!```

I meant to ask, is the dot for telepathy lore always random in its messaging? I've seen acid, fire, slash, crush, etc.  I guess that's because the target is imagining an attack?
glad socket
proven thunder
exotic kiln
#

Mine working fine

proven thunder
#

are yours converted to lore?

exotic kiln
#

nope

rigid bridge
#

I would have assumed the dot portion of telepathy flares is using the puncture critical table as well but this messaging seems to indicate the dot is using completely random critical tables each time.

📎 message.txt
exotic kiln
#

It's using the tables for messaging, but no actual crits, so doesn't make a difference.

covert storm
#

Necromancy Lore Flares have been updated - #development-announcements message

exotic kiln
# 
Locked in mental durance, a large mountain lion is assailed by some unseen attack!
... 10 points of damage!
Strike dents the mountain lion's larynx.
Swallowing will be fun.

Did it die on these or resist the additional damage?

covert storm
proven thunder
#

This began when I discovered that the disease effect only triggers every 30 seconds. So this change will update it to every 10 seconds. And the full damage will become visible. are you sure this is true, i'm testing the old rot flares and critters are bleeding out really quick

covert storm
proven thunder
# 
** A sickly green aura radiates from a deadly vicious-tipped spear and seeps into a triton executioner's wounds! **

   ... 25 points of damage!
   The triton executioner's eye explodes, showering you with gore.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
Ehria just went southeast.
>
A triton executioner's skin cracks open and oozes an inky black ichor.
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Eyebrow and eyelashes of right eye melted off.
   Trendy!
>
Blood weeps from the triton executioner's open right leg wound.
   ... 36 points of damage!
>
Tongue lolling out of her mouth, a tiny white puppy bounds in, her long fringed tail held high.
>
Blood weeps from the triton executioner's open right leg wound.
   ... 59 points of damage!
The triton executioner gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on her face.
>```
wispy light
#

Wow. Yeah, I'm fine.

Skin peels off an Ithzir seer's body, exposing rotting flesh.
   ... 12 points of damage!
   Flesh removed, forming a long gash across abdomen!
   ... 81 points of damage!```
covert storm
exotic kiln
#

My heads on a little straighter now. The damage of the dot isn't changing, the frequency of the dot changed. The # of ticks became capped to 7?
Where as old rot flare could tick 20 or so times over 10 minutes. But the actual damage per tick is unchanged

rigid bridge
#

Major bleed or hamstring?

proven thunder
# 
[SMR result: 219 (Open d100: 49, Bonus: 25)]
With a vicious double-strike you slash at a triton executioner's right leg!
   ... 76 points of damage!
Quick, powerful slash to the triton executioner's left knee!
A triton executioner falls to the ground grasping her mangled right leg!
The triton executioner is stunned!
Blood sprays from the triton executioner's right leg in a crimson arc!
   ... 35 points of damage!

** A sickly green aura radiates from a deadly vicious-tipped spear and seeps into a triton executioner's wounds! **

   ... 30 points of damage!
   Bones shatter in the triton executioner's leg!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
You feel fully energetic again.
>
A fierce rash spreads across a triton executioner's body.
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Left eyelid turns to dust, causing the triton executioner to blink rapidly, or try to.
>
Trickles of blood course from the triton executioner's right leg.
   ... 42 points of damage!
>
Fresh blood drips down the triton executioner's right leg.
   ... 57 points of damage!
The triton executioner gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on her face.``` it seems a lot faster than 30 sec and am i getting some twc bonus? the rash stuff is rot though no
exotic kiln
#

A fierce rash spreads across a triton executioner's body. rot dot. Trickles of blood course from the triton executioner's right leg. slashing strikes or something else giving major bleed

covert storm
proven thunder
#

i know that some of it is the bleeder but that type of damage is all visible no? unless there is hidden bleeder damage as well?

covert storm
#

Because you're using rotflares, the disease damage is not visible

#

So there is a good deal of damage ticking there that you aren't seeing

proven thunder
#

that is what i'm saying , it seems like a lot that isn't visible from the diease

covert storm
#

Correct. Note that rotflares haven't changed at all. In years, I believe.

exotic kiln
#

It died at 250 visible damage. How much more damage do you think it took hidden Yakushi?

covert storm
rigid bridge
#

Welp, 2 hunts in OTF and still nothing over 35 damage for the initial hit. 1 fatal where it did 20 damage because it hit an eye.

proven thunder
#

i try it on characters it is 60 plus from diease and it is going down faster than 30 sec

exotic kiln
covert storm
proven thunder
#

do i get diease and the visible dot from both rot weapons?

covert storm
#

Nope. It doesn't stack

glad socket
#

rotflares - the original
has two dots, one that ticks every 10 (maybe it's faster I can't test anymore)? seconds one that ticks every 30 (this is the disease part that does the most damage), the one that ticks fast only does like 5-10 damager

exotic kiln
#

I tried to test rot on a player on test just the other day and the disease did nothing. Only initial flare damage. I knew it use to work.
its more than every 10 for sure for the visible with rotflare

covert storm
proven thunder
#

so then diease doesn't work on players in test?

exotic kiln
#

I shot my sorcerer up, never lost a chunk of hp after the strike

proven thunder
#

where is brute when u need him

wispy light
exotic kiln
#

Where I thought when I originially got them I tested them out and saw the disease damage under health. But maybe that was just the briar poison and not the rot disease.

rigid bridge
#

If you convert and can see the damage you'll be visually happier. Its about 80 damage average every 2 seconds for the dot.

wispy light
glad socket
rigid bridge
#

The dot portion should look just like telepathy dot, dmg wise

[flaretracker: Average Damage: 80.78]
[flaretracker: Median Damage: 80.0]
[flaretracker: Standard Deviation: 8.39]
[flaretracker: Damage Distribution:]
[flaretracker: 100+: 2 hits]
[flaretracker: 60-69: 44 hits]
[flaretracker: 70-79: 170 hits]
[flaretracker: 80-89: 170 hits]
[flaretracker: 90-99: 77 hits]```

I've got zero concerns in regard to the dot.
exotic kiln
#

Now just gotta wait for the Lore Flare Fatal Afflares

wispy light
proven thunder
#

is there any difference from the old notrot flares to the new lore version when u convert?dot from the nonrot was always visible?

rigid bridge
proven thunder
#

i'm talking about like the water ones that was subscript and not lore

rigid bridge
#

No they should be identical

covert storm
proven thunder
#

oh does this mean i could add fatal flares for 400k to my rot and just toggle between the two? i don't need the 2 to be active?assuming i convert of course

covert storm
#

Flare Affinity? Yes, that's correct

#

Note that you can only toggle between the two while out of combat

#

And it takes something like 30 seconds to get out of combat

#

Those of us who have used inv enh off know how long that 30 seconds can feel

tame spear
vague lance
#

do you have to convert rot flares to a flourish for the change?

proven thunder
#

why do you have to be out in combat? can't i just toggle it to affinity and forget about it until i want to go back to rot?i basically just want the affinity but can't afford the 1m figurine to get both at once

vague lance
covert storm
proven thunder
#

gs players always scheming

cursive laurel
rigid bridge
#

I finally saw a 40 damage telepathy lore flare against Gigas.

   ... 40 points of damage!
   Strike punctures throat and ruins vocal cords!
A grim gigas skald raises a hand as if to grasp for support as he collapses, life going out of his form.```
cedar latch
rigid bridge
#

if count_npcs > 1
fput "target next"
end

cedar latch
#

More of two types, not two instances of the same on different critters

proven thunder
tiny iris
#

So just to make sure I'm understanding the announcement. Rotflares will remain unchanged, and necro lore flares have been adjusted to do more damage quickly, but less damage over longer periods of time, compaired to rotflares?

covert storm
#

That's correct. And the necro lore flares have visible damage, rather than hidden damage

#

And the time scales that are required for the necro lore flares to do more damage are generally much longer than creatures stay alive for

proven thunder
#

would the diease stack if multi players are using rot flares?actually does the dot stack regardless of rot or lore. assuming it is the same type of lore and if it is old rot & lore necro

covert storm
tiny iris
#

So even with the slower ticks, Rotflares will do more damage over short fights?

proven thunder
vague lance
#

mind wrack flares are tracked per flare application

covert storm
covert storm
tiny iris
#

oh ok, so necro lore does more damage short term, got it

proven thunder
#

so both weapons get the initial damage but only 1 dot?

covert storm
tiny iris
#

and you're only offering necro lore to rot, not the other way around?

leaden narwhal
#

You can self convert rot to necro with FLOURISH CONVERT

tiny iris
#

Ohh ok

floral schooner
#

Tbh stacking lore dots would just make TWC entirely unrivaled WITHOUT equal o_o

proven thunder
covert storm
proven thunder
#

how is that a bug? if i had lore air and lore necro they would get two dot and i paid the flourish twice no. i would also be able to properly compare the two rots no?

tiny iris
#

it's a bug probably because they are expected to be the same flares I think. It's just an updated system using the same damage type and such. I'm betting with the update, rotflares will slowly fade to nothing, since necro flares will be more powerful

proven thunder
#

i'm using two weapons so it should be twice as lethal! if i give you a double dose of poison u would die faster no?

tiny iris
#

if your body is already wracked with a disease, adding another infected slice won't do a huge amount of difference, heh

proven thunder
tiny iris
#

if you really want double dots, just keep your necro one, and get another not-rot flare on your other weapon?

floral schooner
#

Mind wrack, THREE DOTS!

proven thunder
floral schooner
#

A splitter can't solve everything. -Except my medical bills apparently.

exotic kiln
#

They're different dots! How can it be a bug! Disease vs whatever this new fangled thing is

proven thunder
#

^preach

proven thunder
urban bluff
proven thunder
#

but hey if u throw me a 75% plat discount for me in prime i would consider it

cedar latch
proven thunder
#

yea shouldn't the 2 sec be apply again after another hit? plus how would that work from 12 swings from focus mstrike

covert storm
cedar latch
exotic kiln
#

64 bit gonna give us 2 slots!?

proven thunder
dusky temple
proven thunder
cedar latch
#

One per each variant

proven thunder
#

but u said single debuff slot on the target and old rot wouldn't be necro lore since they act different. if they were the same there wouldn't be an option to convert back

cedar latch
#

Sorry, said another way, each flare instance has one debuff slot for each of that flare type on the critter. So rot and summoning would be 2 slots

#

Each has a single. Not a single shared amongst all

#

So you couldnt apply rot from weapon 1 and rot from weapon 2 to the same mob, since that debuff Rot is already yes

#

But yes, recognize the ambiguity in phrasing

proven thunder
cedar latch
#

Are you saying that not rot and rot should only occupy a single debuff slot on the target, and they should compete for what's applied at any given time?

#

I'm confused by that assertion

proven thunder
#

no nyxus said it is a bug if i'm getting both dot from old rot and necro lore

cedar latch
#

Because for all intents and purposes, they're meant to be the exact same delivery, slot, and function

proven thunder
cedar latch
#

I'm not sure the linkage with acuity. I'm very specifically discussing debuff slots for negative spell effects on creatures. Which has nothing to do with offensive boosts from gear on the player

proven thunder
cedar latch
#

Yes, telepathy slot, Necro slot, elemental slot (I don't know if these are shared), 502, bind, etc

#

Binary on each individual instance

proven thunder
#

but necro isn't the same as old rot though

exotic kiln
#

The way I see it in my head is, debuff's are not unique like items have id's, They're basically tracked by the name, you can't have duplicates.
Where disease would be a different debuff than this new necro debuff.

Maybe all creatures have all debuffs hard coded and have a "swtich" for each as you describe. That seems ridiculous, but 30 year old game.

Now if the decision is made that they shouldn't coexist. Then that's different than they occupy the same slot.

proven thunder
#

how could u say rot and necro are the same when they literally stated the clear difference between the two

cedar latch
#

Necro is rot 2.0 as it's been transitioned into the flourish system, with increased DoT due to a shorter effect duration in line with other lore based flares and to front load the damage. Because of the natural evolution, they occupy the same target debuff slot on the target, but also with more visibility onto the damage rounds. It is best to consider it an evolution of the existing

proven thunder
#

also by your logic if i hit someone/critter with my rot flares and another player does the same it shouldn't work then no?

exotic kiln
#

that is correct, they're not player tracked.

cedar latch
#

Just like applying blind on something that was blinded by someone else

#

Or mindwrack on something mindwracked

proven thunder
#

but that isn't the case then so are you saying it has been bug for years? also twc rot shouldn't be working all

cedar latch
#

The term between rot and Necro helps provide contextual understanding about the subscript approach and the new flourish approach. Using the same word would be nigh impossible from a debugging perspective

#

Going off in the attack round and applying a unique, additional debuff are two different things

proven thunder
cedar latch
#

I made no assertions about positive effect buffs on players from effects.

#

I've only been speaking about debuff slots for effects on creatures

proven thunder
#

they literally have different effects. timer,diease & damage

cedar latch
#

Zelnorn accessories have different disease damages?

proven thunder
#

rot and new necro

cedar latch
#

Right, that's the bug. Rot and Necro are supposed to be the same

proven thunder
cedar latch
#

The old one applies to ranged, doesn't it?

proven thunder
gilded ingot
cedar latch
#

Don't new and old zealot both occupy the same buff ID slot? I don't exactly have old zealot to test. But again. I'm not talking about other conversions, I'm just talking about these flourishes and the conversion of a subscript to a flourish

cedar latch
gilded ingot
vague lance
#

making the damage over time part of the lore flourish unique to the item that applied it is the suggestion?

cedar latch
#

Databasically that would require a completely unique additional table to hold debuffs outside of the normal, existing debuffing process, because it would contain the consolidation of player::creature::debuff. I think we may have that somewhat with the implementation of... What is it? Disengage? But even that wasn't applied the way I had envisioned it based on the writing. And calls like that, at that frequency, from so many sources make databases pretty sad normally.

#

Maybe a x64 thing!

proven thunder
# 
Diseased!  Taking 82 damage per round.  Dissipating 3 per round.``` that is a lot diease
vague lance
#

gotta hit with both

proven thunder
# 
  AS: +643 vs DS: +444 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +23 = +251
   ... and hit for 61 points of damage!
   Weak diagonal slash catches the cyclops champion's left knee!
   It is dislocated.
   The cyclops champion is knocked to the ground!

** A sickly green aura radiates from a krodera-spiked throwing axe and seeps into a gargantuan cyclops champion's wounds! **

   ... 20 points of damage!
   Major bones in the cyclops champion's right leg crack loudly!
You swing a massive coraesine morning star at a gargantuan cyclops champion!
  AS: +643 vs DS: +367 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +63 = +369
   ... and hit for 99 points of damage!
   Strike to wrist severs left hand!
   The champion's small shield falls to the ground.

** A sickly green aura radiates from a massive coraesine morning star inset with helical spikes and seeps into a gargantuan cyclops champion's wounds! **
   ... 20 points of damage!
   The cyclops champion's neck bones snap.
   Head looks precariously balanced now.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
Small pieces of flesh rot off a gargantuan cyclops champion's body.
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Unpleasant wound to right arm!
   ... 83 points of damage!
>
Blisters form on a gargantuan cyclops champion's skin and ooze a putrid dark yellow fluid.
   ... 10 points of damage!``` it works
remote comet
#

we know anything new on damage of summoning vs religion?

covert storm
#

Thanks for the heads up

proven thunder
#

why it is two different ones?

#

i don't understand that logic, if i buy a new lore and keep my existing rot i would get both dot but if i keep existing rot and convert another rot i can't get both dot?

#

or are you saying even i have lore summoning and lore air they still wouldn't get both dot unless i go buy the figurine?

covert storm
#

Just to make sure I understand, you're asking why it is invalid to stack the rotflares DoT and the necromancy lore flares DoT on the same target, given that it is valid to stack the water DoT and the necromancy DoT?

proven thunder
#

i could stack rotflare dotand water dot too

#

and as is i could stack rotlfare dot with necroflare so why change if i could stack rotflare dot with lore dot anyway

wise oxide
#

So, has anyone confirmed whether the rot change is a nerf or buff yet?

rigid bridge
#

Invalid because you need to spend 1 mil bloodscrip for power creep

exotic kiln
covert storm
proven thunder
rigid bridge
proven thunder
wise oxide
#

since you're updating necro flares anyway, can you make it work on undead? surely a master of necromancy would be able to make her spells affect undead!

exotic kiln
#

All you gotta do is give them a blood infusion first.

covert storm
#

If you have two weapons, each with rotflares, and attack a creature, you will only ever have one DoT.

proven thunder
halcyon oxide
#

I believe you cannot apply(combat) flourishes to (combat) subscripted weapons

covert storm
#

That's correct, for the most part. All mechanical subscripts anyway

covert storm
proven thunder
# halcyon oxide I believe you cannot apply(combat) flourishes to (combat) subscripted weapons

i could twc though. but if you saying because of the 30 sec it wouldn't even matter so why would it matter if i'm getting the diease and dot from old rot which does like no dot damage and then the new dot from necro lore?i'm talking about twc on a single target, i could hit it with my old rot axe and my new necro lore rot axe. am i not getting 100 percent flare rate from rot on the initial damage anyway? what does it matter if i get old weak dot and the new necro dot

covert storm
#

If I understand correctly, you want to be able to have rotflares on one item, and necro lore flares on another, and have two ticks for 70-90 damage each, two seconds after you hit the creature?

proven thunder
vague lance
#

to acheive this you would need two different lore flourishes

covert storm
#

But the old dot damage is hidden because it's a disease

proven thunder
# covert storm They both do 70-90 
  AS: +643 vs DS: +444 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +23 = +251
   ... and hit for 61 points of damage!
   Weak diagonal slash catches the cyclops champion's left knee!
   It is dislocated.
   The cyclops champion is knocked to the ground!

** A sickly green aura radiates from a krodera-spiked throwing axe and seeps into a gargantuan cyclops champion's wounds! **

   ... 20 points of damage!
   Major bones in the cyclops champion's right leg crack loudly!
You swing a massive coraesine morning star at a gargantuan cyclops champion!
  AS: +643 vs DS: +367 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +63 = +369
   ... and hit for 99 points of damage!
   Strike to wrist severs left hand!
   The champion's small shield falls to the ground.

** A sickly green aura radiates from a massive coraesine morning star inset with helical spikes and seeps into a gargantuan cyclops champion's wounds! **
   ... 20 points of damage!
   The cyclops champion's neck bones snap.
   Head looks precariously balanced now.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.
>
Small pieces of flesh rot off a gargantuan cyclops champion's body.
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Unpleasant wound to right arm!
   ... 83 points of damage!
>
Blisters form on a gargantuan cyclops champion's skin and ooze a putrid dark yellow fluid.
   ... 10 points of damage!``` how are they both 70 to 90
covert storm
#

It's a good DoT! Just not as good if the creature sticks around... unless the critter sticks around for a long time!

covert storm
vague lance
#

where rot and necro lore floursh are supposed to be the same, this likely s the same for TWC with fire lore, we built these weapons when rotflares were the only choice

proven thunder
exotic kiln
#

Do the necro flares still have the same messaging for the dot?

covert storm
proven thunder
covert storm
covert storm
exotic kiln
#

How many can be used with twc? 😂

covert storm
#

But in the case where you use a different lore flourish, you'll need to raise a different lore

#

So there is a bit of a counterbalance there

proven thunder
#

so you're pretty much saying if i spend enough currency and get a new lore flare + additional slot and spend some training points everything would be peachy??but i didn't need to do it until you chose to make it necessary?

exotic kiln
#

Armor Lore Flares next year? Buffsss

covert storm
#

Alternatively, I can help you convert back to rotflares, and you'd be in the same place you were this morning.

stoic dune
#

New gemstone, Master of Elements, all lore bonuses are locked in at your highest elemental lore

proven thunder
#

why woudl i have to convert back when i never converted at all

gilded ingot
#

The answer should be they should force convert everything to flourishes and it’s not a problem anymore at all. Maintaining both seems like it’s not really beneficial to anything 🙂

covert storm
#

I assumed that you had converted because of the clip with necromancy lore flares

proven thunder
covert storm
proven thunder
#

but you saying that after i did everyting and prove it works

tiny iris
#

the proof it worked was proving there was a bug

covert storm
#

Yeah, I didn't realize that there is a bug there

proven thunder
stoic dune
#

First rule of Bug Club, don't talk about Bug Club

proven thunder
#

i already bought all the books and farming most of the bloodscrip. how is that in fair

tiny iris
#

this is why you confirm before you buy

stoic dune
#

GS community is pretty understanding, the player should give you a refund

remote comet
proven thunder
#

how do i confirm when it wasn't an issue until i bought it up? i confirm it works before buying. they didn't discover it i did

tame spear
#

We're sorry this snuck through. It was explained in the pins that they would not work together. We can discuss next steps in game.

proven thunder
#

i also did my due diligence and ask a gm to give me a min of their to time confirm everything but was met with no response. why are you putting it on me? are u kidding me with the confirm before you buy when their was so little lack of information ?

tiny iris
#

Nyxus has been highly responsive about all this stuff, all you had to do was ask here.

exotic kiln
#

That pin does not say that you can't combine two different weapons with rot and necro. It says you can't have a subscript and a flourish on the same item.

proven thunder
#

because i bought it to his attention after the fact

tame spear
#

Ah, ok, my mistake. Let us look.

covert storm
#

It's nuanced, certainly

exotic kiln
#

It's moot. They were expected not to work that way (purely for just cause reasons since they are two seperate dots but ok). But it should definitely be clarified where TWC is concerned.

gilded ingot
#

Twc or potentially just MA in general. If it’s only one dot of every type if you really care that much ie earth flares won’t stack even if from multiple players so you might want to do a different element on a different character. If you care about lol maximizing weapon dots in gemstone for some reason.

wispy light
#

I don't think it's an unreasonable position to say like DoT effects shouldn't stack, regardless of source. You can only be so on fire, so diseased, so blind.

exotic kiln
#

I think they should absolutely stack in some way. But on a 30 year old game, that's like wishing for world peace. Whether it be extending the duration or adding bonus damage.

wispy light
#

I think it should refresh the duration. That makes sense to me.

proven thunder
#

if you saying it s houldn't stack the the initial first hit shouldn't stack either

rigid bridge
#

It should work like exsanguiate.

Get hit with 2 lore flares of same element, the second hit triggers all the remaining dots

Explosion flare.

wispy light
#

I also personally think except for a few outliers it's really a moot point in terms of time to kill, or effectiveness.

proven thunder
exotic kiln
#

We also need some raid bosses so we can take advantage of them

vague lance
#

I am also a TWC outlier

wispy light
proven thunder
#

so why the legacy gub ,grandfathering of spells & items? it was all for the better good

wispy light
proven thunder
#

🪞

tame spear
#

We're double checking.

remote comet
#

unrelated question, if I buy the second active flourish slot, does it go on my character or the weapon?

leaden narwhal
#

Weapon

wispy light
#

Weapon


An ivory dancer figurine will grant the ability to add a second active combat flourish (Martial Knowledge) to weapons, including bows, runestaves, and UCS equipment.

Says it in the analyze

vague lance
#

are sorcerors the only profession that can train necro lore 2x and elemental lore 2x to simply train the required 171 ranks for 100% flare rate doubleing up on the DOTS?

exotic kiln
#

Don't forget spiritual too for religion and summoning.

vague lance
#

hah

#

3.2m bloodscrip for 3x lore flares at 100% sounds like you win at that point

cedar latch
wispy light
#

Empaths can do spirit and mental 2x. And anyone can do 1x and add 70 points of enhancive/asc

exotic kiln
#

Look at Paladins being the only semi with 2x lores

wispy light
#

It's actually a little odd wizards can't 3x elemental. (to me anyway)

cedar latch
#

Nerf... Paladins? No... That would be cruel

exotic kiln
#

2x for all semis!

cedar latch
#

Bard lores are also split between mental and elemental though, so arguably better with 1x/1x rather then 2x costs. But when they swap them over to MnM, then it's on. (PS, I'm trolling)

leaden narwhal
cedar latch
#

You still need to buy two flourishes to put in the two slots.

gloomy wren
exotic kiln
#

wizards should be able to dual wield weapons each with two elements on it. Free the lores!

vague lance
#

two dancer figurines + 3 multihued papers and then 2x in three lore sets

covert storm
#

#development-announcements message

wispy light
#

So, if (hypo) you were running both either MA or TWC, what happens if one is active and the other hits. Does it replace, refresh, not work?

covert storm
#

Presently it would not replace or refresh, it would apply the initial flare and skip the DoT entirely

glad socket
#

Basically it's whatever applies first, same as if you had 2 rotflares previously

proven thunder
#

so what happens when i swing my new necro lore first and then my old rot? will the old rot still apply the diease?

covert storm
covert storm
glad socket
#

note I did ask about this like a week ago or so, and this is the same answer I got then

proven thunder
#

so the necro lore still does dot but the old rot will have no dot but the diease is still there? and the necro lore dot will keep going as will the diease from old rot?

covert storm
#

There won't be a way to double up

wispy light
proven thunder
# 
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Unpleasant wound to right arm!
   ... 83 points of damage!
>
Blisters form on a gargantuan cyclops champion's skin and ooze a putrid dark yellow fluid.
   ... 10 points of damage! this part will be missing right?

```the bottom part will be missing right? necro dot that does high damage doesn't keep going but the diease keeps going from old rot?
exotic kiln
#

Announcement says the fix isn't in yet

wispy light
#

If you hit new rot, then old rot, yes. If you hit them the other way around, you'd keep the 2nd and not the 1st.

proven thunder
#

yea so i'm getting all the good stuff from new necro and just the diease from old rot?

covert storm
#

It is not intended that there is an advantage to keeping rotflares. If you believe that you have found an advantage, that is likely unintended.

proven thunder
#

so how is that no messing with my old rot. so if i get new water then i get all the good water stuff and all the good old rot?

covert storm
wispy light
#

Because it's not intended you can get 2 flares based on the same lore. A water and rot flare are on different lores.

proven thunder
#

so if i bought a rot weapon with the purpose to convert i could change the flare on that one?

covert storm
proven thunder
#

if i convert my notrot water to new water it should stack with my old rot as well right?

covert storm
proven thunder
#

and lore water would stack with lore necro as well?

covert storm
#

Yep

remote comet
#

so I asked like 3 times now but no response - how much stronger are religion flares over "125% baseline damage" summoning flares? religion makes you give up all flares on the living, so what's the upside to be worth that sacrifice? are we not intended to know this?

covert storm
#

Summoning flares are roughly 60% as strong against undead as religion flares, give or take 5% depending on lore training

remote comet
#

does that also apply to the initial damage or only the dot portion?

covert storm
#

Only the DoT portion

proven thunder
#

wait so brute twc lore necro & lore religion and i hit the critter with old rot the critter will not take my rot dot but diease? so brutes necro lore flares is screwing my old rotflares?

rigid bridge
#

Are religion, telepathy, and necromancy all expected to deal the same damage for its DoT portion with maxed lores at 171 ranks?

covert storm
#

Sorry, I need to clarify those numbers

proven thunder
#

friends don't let friends get the same lore flares?if i get 2 religion flare with twc only 1 dot?

covert storm
#

Summoning lore flares are about 60% as strong against undead as religion flares, at the highest levels of lore training. At the lowest levels, the numbers are small enough that it is a higher percentage.

remote comet
#

so as I understand this, if you don't care too much about dot, you shouldn't get Religion/Telepathy/Necromancy flares

covert storm
#

Keep in mind that the first dot ticks 2 seconds after the initial hit

rigid bridge
#

If the thing doesn't live long enough for a DoT you're going to be very disappointed

Lore flares can go on lances and claidhs and other big weapons but man I feel like you're throwing away money

covert storm
#

So you might still care about the DoT for 2 seconds

exotic kiln
#

whats damage on elemental dot at 171 ranks? 40-50?

glad socket
#

depends, I'll keep necro because I have 180 necro lore as a sorc, I might get earth, because I could get 171 earth lore in my own training fairly easily too

gilded ingot
#

Just need to do the long con of getting nyxus to add a true ice option. Then you can double dip lore reqs. It’s waters time to shine!

exotic kiln
#

You know what would be the bees knees. If Sylinar was on test and took counterfiet currency

covert storm
#

I suspect that the best choice is the lore type that you can train as high as possible, and the one that hits the targets you attack

#

I can see about whether I can give more detailed information about the differences in the numbers

glad socket
#

also a lot depends on what you hunt potentially too

remote comet
#

if you have 2 different lores on your weapon can you pick which one to use on the fly? if undead use relig, otherwise air or something

rigid bridge
#

Not on the fly, you'd have to leave combat for 30 seconds

proven thunder
#

@void tartan have you converted your earth flares? if so u like it?what is the point ? what if someone twc two different flares?

remote comet
#

wish we could just get summoning flares with religion lore

proven thunder
#

i don't understand why you have to leave combat for 30 sec?

#

oh because u could get 2 dots? so it is ok if someone has two different lore flare weapons and they just swap to cast? @remote comet that is what u should do, get another staff with lore flare or ucs glove to jab them for the dot and affinity goodness

#

leafiara's army with all the lore flares jabbing

void tartan
proven thunder
#

everyone should get their new lore flares and use non lethal spells on brute

proven thunder
void tartan
#

Yeah, not yet.

proven thunder
cursive laurel
#

What if I have two Hoys with 4 lore flares?

proven thunder
#

that is only 2/3 of a real hoy

covert storm
void tartan
#

Well, yes, it changed in that regard for the much better. 🤣

cursive laurel
covert storm
#

I’ve been given permission to share the damage numbers for the different lores, so I’ll get to that when I can

#

I hope that will help folks make decisions, I know it’s harder to choose between the lore types without knowing the numbers

exotic kiln
#

stops the 10,000 levelups he's doing in test

covert storm
proven thunder
#

do old rot flares still work on test server or no?i want to test on players

exotic kiln
# 
[SMR result: 264 (Open d100: 155)]
 ** Tendrils of pale energy lash out from your fireleaf staff toward a spectral triton protector and cage him within bands of concentric geometry that constrict as one, shattering upon impact! **
   ... 20 points of damage!
   Quick strike sinks deep into the right eye socket.

  CS: +534 - TD: +413 + CvA: +15 + d100: +30 == +166
  Warding failed!

 ** Numerous sigils along your fireleaf staff abruptly flare to brilliance!  Pale energy surges from each, twining into an echo of your last spell... **

  CS: +534 - TD: +413 + CvA: +15 + d100: +63 == +199
  Warding failed!

 ** Your fireleaf staff sprays forth a shower of pure water! **
A spectral triton protector manages to block some of the elemental damage with his driftwood greatshield!
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Weak blow leaves a brief imprint on the triton protector's chest!

** Divine flames kindle around a sigil-carved fireleaf staff, leaping forth to engulf a spectral triton protector in a sacred inferno! **
   ... 25 points of damage!
   Smash to the chest!
   Good thing there were no ribs there to shatter.

** Divine flames kindle around a sigil-carved fireleaf staff, leaping forth to engulf a spectral triton protector in a sacred inferno! **
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Large gash to the right arm seals as strike passes through.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
(Forcing stance down to guarded)

That's fun

proven thunder
#

what the divine flame? paladin service?

exotic kiln
# 
air
The cyclone whirls around a spectral triton protector anew, a suffocating force of nature!
   ... 3 points of damage!
   Glancing blow to the right arm leaves a trail of vapor in its wake.
   ... 31 points of damage!

summoning
The whip of plasma continues to wreathe a spectral triton protector in its sizzling embrace!
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Quick strike to the face!
   Just nicked an eyelid!
   ... 47 points of damage!

religion
The sacred inferno surrounding a spectral triton protector ignites anew, searing him with divine fire!
   ... 3 points of damage!
   Weak blow to neck wouldn't have scared the triton protector even if it were still alive.
   ... 77 points of damage!

Just a single tick from each one on non corp undead. Interested to hear the ranges in a bit.

Divine flame was religion

gloomy wren
#

I love the messaging for religion

proven thunder
#

why it get double dot? bugged?

exotic kiln
#

there is no double dot. That's the initial flare. Double flare from sigil staff double cast.

covert storm
proven thunder
#

** Divine flames kindle around a sigil-carved fireleaf staff, leaping forth to engulf a spectral triton protector in a sacred inferno! **
... 25 points of damage!
Smash to the chest!
Good thing there were no ribs there to shatter.

** Divine flames kindle around a sigil-carved fireleaf staff, leaping forth to engulf a spectral triton protector in a sacred inferno! **
... 10 points of damage!
Large gash to the right arm seals as strike passes through.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds. that is double

exotic kiln
#

Yeah I cast 701, sigil staff double casted it. Those are initial strikes for each cast, no dot in that clip

proven thunder
#

it happen before the rt, echo from sigil shouldn't do that if twc can't do it

exotic kiln
#

You literally posted a clip of twc having 2 rot flare procs before the roundtime. It's literally the same thing. Two attacks, with 171 lore = 2 flares and 1 dot.

trim valley
#

You don't get double the DoT from a sigil multicast, it's just the flare damage happening on each cast.

proven thunder
#

but u have waTer , religion, religion if it was becasue of the echo why not water water religion religion

exotic kiln
#

Oh you mean the holy water flare in the clip. The staff is blessed 😂.

proven thunder
#

it is literally 1 cast? dispel cs cs water flare religion flare religion flare

exotic kiln
#

Yes you got it I cast 1 time, sigil staff turns it into a double cast, I got a holy water flare on one cast, and both casts flared lore flare

proven thunder
#

do u have the 2 slot flourish in it?

exotic kiln
#

nope

proven thunder
#

oh it was holy water

#

so one of the religion flare was from the first cast? one from second cast? it just display both on second cast?doesn't that seem buggy with the display

trim valley
#

Yes, it does seem kind of buggy, but that's just how sigil multicasts work. 🤷

rigid bridge
# 
[SMR result: 246 (Open d100: 66, Bonus: 120)]
   ... 60 points of damage!
   The kiramon seeker's stomach rips through flesh and explodes.
The kiramon seeker clicks one last time and dies.```
Flare affinity + dispel will never let you down nor go to waste.
trim valley
#

It looks like they didn't ALWAYS work like that. I have a few clips from years and years ago:

Mana surges through you in a brilliant display of silvery motes which skitter across your skin as you prepare Arcane Blast...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a shaggy tusked ursian.
  CS: +546 - TD: +493 + CvA: +25 + d125: +101 == +179
  Warding failed!
  A torrent of arcane energy blasts the tusked ursian for 11 points of damage!
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Blow connects with abdomen.

** A sickly green aura radiates from a star-strewn storm surita runestaff capped with a golden glimaerstone and seeps into a shaggy tusked ursian's wounds! **

   ... 30 points of damage!
   The tusked ursian's thumb explodes in a shower of flesh and bone fragments.
   The tusked ursian is stunned!

 ** Numerous sigils along your storm surita runestaff abruptly flare to brilliance!  Celestial energy surges from each, twining into an echo of your last spell... **

  CS: +546 - TD: +495 + CvA: +25 + d125: +95 == +171
  Warding failed!
  A torrent of arcane energy blasts the tusked ursian for 11 points of damage!
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Blow connects with abdomen.

** A sickly green aura radiates from a star-strewn storm surita runestaff capped with a golden glimaerstone and seeps into a shaggy tusked ursian's wounds! **

   ... 10 points of damage!
   Tendons in the tusked ursian's shield arm snap.

 ** A bolt of energy leaps from your white ora-edged leathers and sets the sigils along your storm surita runestaff ablaze.  Tendrils of celestial energy lash out at a shaggy tusked ursian and cage her within bands of concentric geometry... **

[SMR result: 73 (Open d100: 39, Bonus: 39)]
The bands surrounding a shaggy tusked ursian dissipate harmlessly right before impact.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Roundtime: 5 sec.```
proven thunder
#

i guess it just buggy display

cedar latch
#

Need me to math some numbers?

#

Man... I was half joking... but those few Revised edition dual-lands I found probably could have paid for lore flares...

urban bluff
# cedar latch Need me to math some numbers?

I honestly don't know how you keep it all straight. I think after reading the last two hours of commentary here I have an idea of what a dot is, and how flare debuffs seem to work, but man it's kinda convoluted.

rigid bridge
#

Nyxus, what is the intended flare rate of dispel flares with flare affinity and boost supercharger active? 20% to 26% is what I'm seeing and that seems a little low compared to pre-flourish conversion

proven thunder
#

where are free lore flare items on test server?

urban bluff
trim valley
#

TSC, the multihued certificates.

dusty pendant
rigid bridge
#

What bug fix to flare affinity? I don't recall there being bugs since it was released

remote comet
#

the flare rate didn't work

leaden narwhal
#

It was affecting material flares for some time. Also more recently, it wasn't working for runestaves

urban bluff
rigid bridge
#

I had it on my falchion since it was first offered with dispel flares, never had issues.

cedar latch
rigid bridge
#

I use dispel flares as the standard because nothing goes to waste as in you miss a flare or a flare is delayed because you killed your target

proven thunder
# 
  AS: +338 vs DS: +252 with AvD: +20 + d100 roll: +55 = +161
   ... and hit for 31 points of damage!
   Left elbow smashed into a thousand pieces.
   The Sheruvian initiate is stunned!

** A radiant mist surrounds a cudgel, unfurling into a whip of plasma that wreathes a Sheruvian initiate in its sizzling embrace! **
   ... 1 point of damage!
   Flash burns to eye momentarily blind the Sheruvian initiate.
You take aim and swing a dagger at a Sheruvian initiate!
  AS: +338 vs DS: +229 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +44 = +178
   ... and hit for 40 points of damage!
   Beautiful shot pierces skull!  Amazing the Sheruvian initiate wasn't killed outright!

** Rippling and half-seen, strands of psychic power unravel from the dagger to strike at a Sheruvian initiate! **
   ... 30 points of damage!
   Strong strike, punctures lung!
Roundtime: 9 sec.
>
The whip of plasma continues to wreathe a Sheruvian monk in its sizzling embrace!
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Strike pierces thigh!
   It is knocked to the ground!
   ... 27 points of damage!
``` what is going on why is my results so bad with 171 telepathy and summoning?
exotic kiln
#

Padding?

proven thunder
#

no 100 percent flare right at 171 rank either. test server broken?

rigid bridge
#

That's not the telepathy dot

The telepathy dot starts with "Locked in durance"

exotic kiln
#

That's the summoning dot from the cudgel

proven thunder
# 
The whip of plasma continues to wreathe a Sheruvian initiate in its sizzling embrace!
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Minor puncture to the back.
   ... 24 points of damage!
>
Locked in mental durance, a Sheruvian initiate is assailed by some unseen attack!
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Hot vapors cause the Sheruvian initiate's eyes to water profusely.
   ... 63 points of damage!``` isn't this the dot?
rigid bridge
#

Yeah, you didn't include it above

   ... 5 points of damage!
   Minor puncture to the back.
   ... 24 points of damage!```
This is summoning

```Locked in mental durance, a Sheruvian initiate is assailed by some unseen attack!
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Hot vapors cause the Sheruvian initiate's eyes to water profusely.
   ... 63 points of damage!```
This is telepathy

It's working as intended.  Summoning is weaker against living.  Stronger against undead.
proven thunder
#

the necro stuff seems a lot stronger

remote comet
#

all the arena mobs are considered living right

rigid bridge
#

Yup

proven thunder
#

hmm not really seeing any upgrades from the notrot besides messaging

rigid bridge
proven thunder
#

u haven't seen any over 60 and most are like 20 or 30s which i was seeing before. what u getting 100 on?

rigid bridge
# 
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Hot vapors cause the Sheruvian initiate's eyes to water profusely.
   ... 63 points of damage!```

This is a DoT over 60
remote comet
#

can we get a flag to frontload all the dot at the expense of it doing half the total damage

proven thunder
# 
   ... 2 points of damage!
   Unpleasant wound to right arm!
   ... 73 points of damage!
>
A brawny gigas shield-maiden's skin cracks open and oozes an inky black ichor.
   ... 4 points of damage!
   Surface of left leg etched to little effect.
   ... 63 points of damage!
>
Skin peels off a tattooed gigas berserker's body, exposing rotting flesh.
   ... 4 points of damage!
   Surface of left leg etched to little effect.
   ... 66 points of damage!
>
Abscesses drain a bloody yellow fluid across a niveous giant warg's body.
   ... 1 point of damage!
   Patches of flesh removed from right hand.
   ... 81 points of damage!``` are necro lores the most damage for dot?
exotic kiln
#

necro, religion, and maybe telepathy are suppose to be equal.

undead -> religion -> summoning -> elemental
living -> rot -> elemental -> summoning
proven thunder
#

hmm i was using telepathy with summoning before

stoic dune
#

So is the play to get 7 weapons with 7 different elemental flourishes and then swap/swing every time? 7 DoTs on the Wyrm in 7 seconds with runestaffs

cedar latch
#

I believe necro is best against living, but weakest against undead iirc?

remote comet
exotic kiln
cedar latch
stoic dune
rigid bridge
# proven thunder hmm i was using telepathy with summoning before 
[test: Average Damage: 81.02]
[test: Median Damage: 81.0]
[test: Standard Deviation: 8.29]
[test: Damage Distribution (Total Hits: 735):]
[test: 100+: 3 hits]
[test: 60-69: 57 hits]
[test: 70-79: 271 hits]
[test: 80-89: 277 hits]
[test: 90-99: 127 hits]
[test: Highest Recorded: 100]```

Telepathy lore median is 81.  Religion should be the same against undead. Necromancy should be the same as telepathy.

This is 735 hits.  You need to test a lot more than the small amount you're doing now to get an accurate picture of "average".
cedar latch
#

I can sell you a friend cert for 300k BS

dusty pendant
gloomy wren
#

Only if you attune it.

remote comet
rigid bridge
#

You mean shattered?

cedar latch
#

BOTS? in MY Gemstone?

rigid bridge
# 
[test: Average Damage: 36.93]
[test: Median Damage: 32.5]
[test: Standard Deviation: 13.28]
[test: Damage Distribution (Total Hits: 44, Appearance Rate: 30.99%):]
[test: 10-19: 1 hits]
[test: 20-29: 9 hits]
[test: 30-39: 16 hits]
[test: 40-49: 6 hits]
[test: 50-59: 8 hits]
[test: 60-69: 2 hits]
[test: 70-79: 2 hits]
[test: Highest Recorded: 70]```
30.99% dispel flare rate with flare affinity, NO boost supercharger.  It's calculating the % compared to each time I swing my mace over 3 arena runs.

```[test: Dispel_CatB Flare Statistics:]
[test: Average Damage: 38.11]
[test: Median Damage: 35.0]
[test: Standard Deviation: 12.78]
[test: Damage Distribution (Total Hits: 61, Appearance Rate: 36.75%):]
[test: 20-29: 13 hits]
[test: 30-39: 20 hits]
[test: 40-49: 10 hits]
[test: 50-59: 10 hits]
[test: 60-69: 7 hits]
[test: 70-79: 1 hits]
[test: Highest Recorded: 70]```
36.75% dispel flare rate with flare affinity, WITH boost supercharger.  It's calculating the % compared to each time I swing my mace over 3 arena runs.
stoic dune
#

Is there flare tracking script everyone is using?

tiny iris
exotic kiln
#

Then you kite him

leaden narwhal
#

Or you 615 him and he kites you

covert storm
covert storm
exotic kiln
#

I would add that the small critical round of damage is reduced to a rank 0

covert storm
#

That's a good point. I wanted to confirm that this is always the case before adding that. My understanding is that it is, but I'm not 100% certain.

#

The critical portion goes into normal combat code, which can be complex. The DoT portion is very straightforward in comparison 🙂

#

Oh, let me add old school rotflares

proven thunder
#

elemental and summoning dot damage looks depressing

gilded ingot
#

It's more than the 0 on invalid targets.

exotic kiln
#

so looks like summoning would be +25 % at 29 - 53 and -25% at 17 - 31

leaden narwhal
#

Very cool. Thanks for sharing!

covert storm
#

Okay, rotflares are now included

#

I think that's everything!

blissful ice
#

Does figurine work now ?

remote comet
proven thunder
#

lets go see

covert storm
#

Should be just thing tomorrow morning

gloomy wren
#

Eesh, that makes me feel bad about Elemental/Summoning.

#

Can we have a full damage blessing lore flare lol

proven thunder
urban bluff
#

Maybe I'm missing something but why are elemental reduced in the first place?

exotic kiln
#

They hit everyone. Alive, Dead, Bleeding, Oozing. They don't care.

covert storm
proven thunder
#

@remote comet do u have logs?

#

sent

void tartan
#

I look away for an hour to sort golem parts and in comes a spreadsheet drop!

cedar latch
void tartan
#

Okay, so basically what I'm getting out of this is:

  • Necromancy/Telepathy if your endgame is the Hive, Boreal Forest, Eldurhaart, Ojandhaart, or Berserker's End
  • Religion if your endgame is Moonsedge, the Pits of the Dead, or the Spirit Walk
  • Elemental/Summoning if your endgame is Fjallarhaart or if you indiscriminately hunt wherever in the Hinterwilds the Adventurer's Guild sends you
fast tapir
void tartan
#

Yeah, that's one reason I'm content with sticking to Earth flares unless they come out with some crazy Blessings lore next Duskruin. Elemental is the most general purpose no matter what gets released.

proven thunder
#

next asc hunting we going primal ~ no wearing spells at all

cedar latch
#

I'll be aiming for fire. But, that's also because I am a fire aligned mage... So, just kinda fits nice, and I can make the lore threshold work

gloomy wren
candid cliff
proven thunder
#

religion is a sacrifice for a cleric? in what world?

void tartan
glad socket
#

I imagine ship graveyard will be undead plus water creatures, so a mix of stuff

candid cliff
#

yeah I recall an undead pirate, morrows, harpies

void tartan
#

Yeah, I don't think a ship graveyard would even possibly make sense unless it had both undead and living creatures.

candid cliff
#

Summoning could complement necro and holy flares nicely I think

#

all I need is that greater dark catalyst gemstone to go with it all lol

cedar latch
#

I know it's said in jest and excitement about the new gemstones, but I wouldn't expect to see specific class boosts, because as far as I know, they're not meant to replace a future class specific ascension offerings down the road

gloomy wren
proven thunder
#

that is nothing! 2x lore people can't talk!! and most clerics have more religion than u

cedar latch
#

He used to have more religion before he was stood in that corner with the spotlight on him.

glad socket
#

clerics needing 100 blessings for their service to do holy fire flares is a little restrictive yeah, but it's ok I'm sure blessing lore is comin at some point haha

fast tapir
stoic dune
#

My cleric has 45 blessing lore, 5 asc blessing lore, and +50 blessing enhancive kit and a TON of religion lore.

crimson yew
#

does the necromancy lore flares update mean that the converted rotflares are nerfed? or will they do the same damage they did before, just faster?

proven thunder
#

it is suppose to be better for the first 10min or so

exotic kiln
#

The update is a buff to rotflares 99% of the time.

rigid bridge
#

Could we get some math on flare affinity % increase flare frequency please Nyxus?

stoic dune
#

I would also like to know what the "effective rate" of runestaff flares is after FA is added. (Based on some recent posts I assume its flare rate +50% so 1-in-8 to 3-in-16?)

floral schooner
#

-Eying the 8.5m exp I need for 101 telepathy ranks as a warrior- -HEAVY SOBBING INSUES-

tranquil turtle
floral schooner
#

Only for banker clerics.

tranquil turtle
#

Banker?

rigid bridge
#

For melee with flare affinity I'm seeing 1 in 7 roughly. Add boost supercharger which does further increase the frequency of flares and it's close to 1 in 6. I was really expecting it to be closer to 1 in 4 or 5 with FA and supercharger though

floral schooner
#

Banker, as in 100% sanctify clerics.

glad socket
#

consistently is flaring at below what I'm seeing from my acuity flares as well, so that makes me thing it's at roughly a 10% flare rate which would be exactly half what it should be moved to dr chat (nothing to do with flourishes-

cedar latch
#

Acuity is also pre-resolution and can trigger upon death of a critter.

glad socket
#

realized I put all this in the wrong chat... -gonna move things to the DR chat-

cedar latch
#

ohh, flare affinity, I thought you were referring to the lore flourishes

#

I haven't had my coffee yet!

floral schooner
#

No, pretty sure this chat is correct. FA is a combat flourish

glad socket
#

yeah I obviously haven't had enough either yet this morning, (I was talking about a bug with cursed armor, nothing related to FA, was just in the wrong channel)

urban bluff
cedar latch
#

It runs out, and reapplies. Otherwise refreshing it would likely continue to reset the 2s counter each time, and cause that first tick to potentially never hit

stoic dune
#

In some weird way I would be scared my 1 second "re-applies" would mean the DoT never fires

cedar latch
#

Zhagen nailed it

rigid bridge
#

If you have 506 or use 1 sec tonis you won't see many dots
You swing before dot fires or reapply it

stoic dune
#

RIP my purchase plans I guess

cedar latch
#

That was my point, it explicitly doesn't overwrite/reapply them, because otherwise it would be suppressing that 2s bit. so it's just a binary apply if null, if yes, don't reapply

stoic dune
#

I would complain that is a bug and demand a refund if I had previously bought as a rapidfire caster! If it truly works like that then its unfair to fast players. Also that would not make any realistic sense. My attacks are saving the critter from DoT damage??!?!

urban bluff
#

Does the damage stay constant over the course of it's application or does it reduce with each tick?

stoic dune
#

Basically the 2 second reapply is perfect for 2/3 second swingers and casters and terrible for wizards.

rigid bridge
#

The dot is constant but first dot is 2 seconds and second dot is 10 sec
Fast players ain't seeing a second dot ever

cedar latch
#

I didn't see any degradation approach in the info Nyxus provided

stoic dune
cedar latch
#

yes

rigid bridge
#

Flare affinity is legit in regard to the potency increase. Anyone using dispel flares should get it and anyone using a post flare should consider it. Lore flares are iffy

stoic dune
#

So will I never get my first singluar DoT at 1 second cast RT? (Only the initial flare)

covert storm
cedar latch
#

+- like, 1 cast

rigid bridge
stoic dune
cedar latch
#

The 700 DoTs is because Ruse's offhand basically finished stuff off. or was mid-assault or something like that

rigid bridge
#

I don't have an off hand, ohb only w shield
Only post flare I have is telepathy.
Sk506 I flat out beat the dot many times and get a second swing in and kill it. Very little survivors 2 hits at 180+ DMG average

stoic dune
#

Change the name to confusion flares

urban bluff
cedar latch
#

Playstyle matters. As a warmage, I have about 8 AS, so if I somehow get a 101 endroll, I'm super happy, and leave the damage to the 9000 flares I have. This fits well for me, because even though I'm aiming for the eyes like Boo, it never works out that way against things that aren't simple fodder.

urban bluff
#

I do agree though that dispel and FA are a great combo. Was even crazier when it boosted my starsong and getting like 200+ damage each time that went off before the bug fix.

stoic dune
#

Can someone put out a "basic runestaff" with each of the elemental lore flares in test?

cedar latch
#

I think there are some certs in TSC

#

Or someone used them all up

rigid bridge
#

Whirlin is spot on with play style.
I've got self spelled 700+ AS as an empath with sk506. I just do a lot of damage before telepathy dot can kick in

urban bluff
stoic dune
cedar latch
#

It's also what you hunt. If I want to mindlessly deathkill OTF by just one-shotting everything that moves ever instantly. I can do that. If I want to head to Reim where everything is NCU and annoying, the DoTs will help more. If I go to one of the ascension zones that I can barely hit, the DoTs will do a lot more work.

#

With the upcoming goals of Gemstones and an actual carrot to keep me from mindlessly deathkilling the countryside in a way that Trogdor would love, I want to be a little more effective at the higher end stuffs

stoic dune
#

Wizards don't have any skills or spells that would mass apply the DoTs like volley right?

cedar latch
#

I think whatever GM finally bestows Volley to me will likely also be blamed for a crash shortly thereafter when I volley the everything

violet fractal
rigid bridge
#

To be fair, I've done the vast majority of testing in arena. I typically hunt gigas, mutants, or hive and may see more use there.

stoic dune
cedar latch
#

That just makes it MORE worth it

glad socket
#

I can certainly confirm you still get dot ticks with 1 second casts. Also obviously 518 should proc on all targets like volley imo

stoic dune
cedar latch
#

AoE spells were last adjusted before the PSM, and were widely removed from some ability flare procs and things... I think mostly with concerns with netting positive mana from mana flares on AoEs and stuffs. But, hopefully it can be re-evaluated when/if a wizard review comes along.

dusky temple
#

The lore flare add cert is on the table in tsc in test. They put it back out over the weekend so you can make a simple test weapon.

exotic kiln
#

Lore flares are definitely not iffy! At 171 ranks and 75,000 flares. I’ve come out to 42% of the 100% flares are Rank 5+ compared to FA at 100% of the 40% flare rate.

Now which lore you use could have an impact on that. Isn’t there something special about puncture and fatal crits?

floral schooner
#

So wait, for the quick swing inclined, lore flares are absolutely worthless?

exotic kiln
#

…. I have sk506. No there’s nothing worthless about them. I would choose them over FA every time. They match the fatal potential and exceed it since they crit every single time and wound stacking kills.

cedar latch
#

Not sure how you reached that conclusion...?

gilded ingot
#

it's a bigger difference cause 8 is the general threshold for non-head/neck areas on the torso so if you're 7 on average with like 30% 8+ that means even torso shots are fatal.

If you're more like 5 or 6 with barely any 8+ that means torso shots are still rarely if ever fatal.

This is why 1030 is so op cause it's basically a 9 every time so it's like "did you hit a limb? if not congrats its dead"

exotic kiln
#

I posted the crit rank break down hree somewhere, trying to find it

floral schooner
#

So I hear there's new combat flourishes in the works, we going to see a few dropping in february?

cedar latch
#

jokes aside. It is a new framework that can be grown upon

exotic kiln
#

Here it is. #duskruin message

rigid bridge
exotic kiln
#

I use a bow. I aim at eyes. I get tons of kills without flares yes. That's why I did my calculations based on flares not attacks.

rigid bridge
#

Oh I'm doing both

floral schooner
#

I mean with recent changes... "Why not both?"

exotic kiln
#

Yeah if I didn't have these numbers, I would be eyeing flare affinity.

#

Made it easier to read... From the arena last night. Small sample of only 1900 flares. Necromancy

gilded ingot
#

areana always pretty wonky cause they're so crit resistant it might be even better to be fair, maybe lore flares are avoiding the resistance somehow? i dunno it's all weird

exotic kiln
#

True. I feel like they'd be more likely to have puncture resist than disruption too heh.
But the 75k are mostly from everything in the atoll.

gilded ingot
#

but i think if you were using like, most of the flare types (not gonna figure out lightning, you can't make me) they're generally 6/6/6/8/8/8 for fatal spots. melee flares are slightly better typically. but i think that would have worked out to something like 272 death crits roughly (a rank 6+ to head/neck/eye or a rank 8+ to torso)

if it was FA if you converted, doing a spitballed normal distrubtino of 10/20/40/20/10 since i don't have actual numbers for ranks 5/6/7/8/9 then ~30% of your torso shots and ~90% of your head/neck shots that were sub-rank 5 would also become fatal so that woulda been 586 roughly

#

and it probably would be slightly better since it's a higher range to random from so even some of the 5/6s would be higher i would think. but that about tracks logically. The other consideration is location distrubtion, pretty sure cat b flares are subject to a weighted average based on target size comparison (i.e. you probably hit more legs on gigas). I think. And I have no idea of lore flares do that or they're just "lol roll a <count of bodyparts> sided dice"

stoic dune
#

Seems like the tradeoff is more fatal crits (2-3x?) for FA vs. a TON of extra HP draining flares/DoTs for lore flares

exotic kiln
#

Interesting.

gilded ingot
#

it is a lot more raw hp, but also FA flares would hit for, i can do math again but all those sub-5 shots would be doing more like 40 damage instead of 5 -15

and the very much harder to measure increased damage on followups because every FA hit will even if it doesn't kill it messed that things day up (cut off a limb, big head wound, etc.) that can all be big DS swings

#

i think if you can swing the 171 lore it's probably lore flares, probably. but it gets a lot more complicated at 105, and almost certainly FA pre-105

exotic kiln
#

Agreed.

stoic dune
#

Anyone know the relative heath range of the HW gigas/medium critters? Is it like 500? I definitely have times where it takes 3-4 bolts to take out a maiden so I figure the guaranteed 150-200 extra damage might help but not sure depending on their HP.

exotic kiln
#

What really puts FA ahead is if you have bane flares. Now you've doubled your fatal crits against a specific type of creature anyways!

rigid bridge
#

Need bane to get flourish treatment

stoic dune
#

Banes so expensive for what ya get though.... unless you hunt undead 100% and get undead bane or had old GUB

tame spear
#

Banes are already their own separate thing

stoic dune
#

They need to have HESS sales, buy 2 get 1 of lesser or equal value for free....

warm pier
#

But we want more than one bane and to be able to swap between them!!! One weapon to rule them all! (with some sort of cooldown required to swap)

void tartan
#

I've been saying this since last year!

Just realized that bane flares probably use Fatal Afflares messaging, which means one day I'll face an impossible choice between [screen scroll + one-and-done (so lower cost)] for bane flares and [number go up + mechanical superiority] for bane AS! :grimacing: 

There's only one solution.
jots down for Tivvy's next Duskruin request form: "bane combiners"```
covert storm
#

The issue of rotflares and necromancy lore flares DoT stacking should now be resolved, as per #development-announcements message

tame spear
#

Is screen scroll a real desire or a joke desire

void tartan
#

Screen scroll is the realest desire!

wispy light
gilded ingot
remote comet
#

studies show that screen scroll is directly correlated with happiness and a sense of well-being

exotic kiln
#

the more lines the more intense the situation was against the individual

tame spear
#

Is this like named weapons hit harder

floral schooner
#

Imagine having a named weapon.

wise oxide
#

You have to be able to hear its voice in your head and talk to it for that bonus.

rigid bridge
#

Gonna do 250 arena runs and see what the flare rate ends up for flare affinity with dispel flares and no supercharger

image.png
#

Might as well stream it if anyone wants to watch pretty colors

gilded socket
#

Runestaff? Pretty sure you’ll see something on the order of 1:4 to 1:5

rigid bridge
#

Melee standard falres are suppose to be base of 1 to 5

gilded socket
#

I -thought- sometime way back when it was said by a GM that the flare rate was boosted 50% by FA. I could be completely misremembering though 🙂

rigid bridge
#

Well if its 1 to 5 and ends up at 1 to 3

# 

1. Understanding "Direct Damage" and "Flares"
Direct Damage: This refers to the main hits, like weapon swings or spell casts, which are the base hits and always occur.
Flares: These are additional effects that might occur when a hit is made, such as elemental flares, special attacks, or debuffs. They don't always happen on every swing but occur with some probability.
2. Flare Rate Calculations
The script calculates the flare rate in two ways:

"1 per X swings" Rate: This tells us how often a flare occurs relative to the base direct damage swings.
Percentage Rate: This gives the percentage of swings that resulted in the flare.
a. 1 per X swings:
Formula: 1 per (Direct Damage Hits / Flare Hits)
Explanation: The idea here is to express how often, on average, a flare happens relative to direct damage hits. If a flare occurs once every 5 swings, this would be expressed as "1 per 5".
For example:

If you have 100 direct damage hits and 20 flare hits:
Flare Rate: 1 per (100 / 20) = 1 per 5 swings
b. Percentage Rate:
Formula: (Flare Hits / Direct Damage Hits) * 100
Explanation: This shows the probability that any given swing results in a flare. For example, if a flare happens 20 times out of 100 swings, the percentage rate is 20%.
For example:

If you have 100 direct damage hits and 20 flare hits:
Flare Percentage: (20 / 100) * 100 = 20%
3. How the Script Implements It
The script tracks every direct damage hit and every flare hit separately. It then compares the flare hits against the total direct damage hits to calculate both the "1 per X swings" rate and the percentage.

1 per X swings Calculation:
1 per (direct_damage_hits / flare_hits).round(2)

Percentage Calculation:
(flare_hits.to_f / direct_damage_hits * 100).round(2)

4. Example Outputs
Imagine you have these stats:

200 direct damage hits
50 flare hits
The script would output:

Flare Rate: 1 per 4.0
Percentage: 25.0%
This means that every 4 swings, a flare is expected to occur, and 25% of all swings result in a flare.

5. Use Cases
These metrics are helpful in understanding the reliability and frequency of different flares:

Weapon Flares: If you're testing a weapon with a supposed 20% chance to flare, you can use this script to validate that it’s flaring approximately 1 in every 5 swings.
Runestaff Flares: If runestaffs have a lower flare rate, say 12.5%, you can track how often they are actually flaring in practice.
Summary
"1 per X swings" Rate is a way to express how often a flare occurs relative to direct damage.
Percentage Rate is the probability of a flare occurring on any given hit.
Both calculations are derived from comparing flare hits to the total direct damage hits.
This dual metric system provides a clear, intuitive way to assess the frequency of flares in both absolute and relative terms.```

Chat GPT is fun
cedar latch
#

Ewww, that's some non whirlin brand knowledge that chat gpt is spouting

fierce crypt
#

Standard flare Melee is 1:5 and runestaff is 1:8 @rigid bridge

rigid bridge
#

At 50 entries so far. Current flare rate is 1 per 3.51. If the standard is 1 per 5, the flare rate improvement of flare affinity is approximately 29.8% faster than the standard rate of 1 flare per 5 swings.

Gonna go out on a limb and say that flare affinity is intended to improve the frequency of melee flares by roughly 30%.

leaden narwhal
halcyon oxide
#

I feel this is a case where parsing will always be a best guess sort of thing because it's really hard to account for killshots etc.

rigid bridge
#

Gonna finish this book without boost supercharger and then do another 250 book with boost supercharger the entire time

glacial dock
#

Hey - not sure if this has been reported yet, but here's the situation:

I have an existing staff that had rotflares. I converted the rotflares to the flourish system. I then purchased spiritual summoning flares. The bard song now shows two necro flourishes.

# 
It has been infused with mana (+5).
It appears to weigh about 2 pounds.
It is estimated to be worth about 1,000,000,000 silvers.
It is predominantly crafted of surita.  It is greater surita (d125).
It has been ensorcelled 5 times.
It has been sanctified 5 times.
It may be enchanted up to a bonus of 50 by a wizard and was last enchanted by Venkman.
It is an overwhelming project (1,356 difficulty) for an adventurer to modify.
It has some unknown (scripted) benefit.
It has the Lore Flares - Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy and Lore Flares - Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy Flourishes.```
covert storm
#

That's a known issue. It should show correctly on FLOURISH STAFF, and function correctly. Thanks for letting us know though!

#

We'll get to it

glacial dock
#

All good. 🙂 Thanks, Nyxus.

Confirmed that FLOURISH STAFF is correct.

>1. Lore Flares - Sorcerous Lore - Necromancy (Mechanical)
2. Lore Flares - Spiritual Lore - Summoning (Mechanical) (Inactive)```
dusty pendant
#

Nyxus, you getting enough sleep?

covert storm
#

Probably not 😄

stoic dune
rigid bridge
#

Dispel_CatB Flare w/Flare Affinity Statistics:
Average Damage: 36.37
Median Damage: 35.0
Standard Deviation: 11.55
Damage Distribution:
10 - 19: 3 hits
20 - 29: 173 hits
30 - 39: 376 hits
40 - 49: 148 hits
50 - 59: 83 hits
60 - 69: 55 hits
70 - 79: 22 hits
Total Hits: 860 hits
Highest Recorded: 70
Flare Rate: 1 per 3.39
Appearance Rate: 29.51%
Comparison to Standard Melee Flare Rate: 32.23% better than the standard (1 per 5 swings)

leaden narwhal
#

I'm not sure I understand this:

32.23% better than the standard (1 per 5 swings)
29.5% is ~48% improvement over 20% standard flare rate

rigid bridge
cedar latch
#

That's... not on chance to flares work... That's now how any of this works

exotic kiln
#

ChatGPT living up to its name reputation

rigid bridge
#

Lol, teach us Whirlin

dusty pendant
#

Whirlin is ChatGPT

cedar latch
#

Flare rate is an increasing percentage since the last observation of a flare.