#Solhaven Pawnshop is the Twilight Zone.

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hybrid rose
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Particularly during Duskruin. The Solhaven pawnshop just spits out bogus numbers. Sometimes the appraise value is higher than it sells for. Other times it's lower. Sometimes they match and it's a reasonable price 20-30% of recall. Other times it's less than 10 percent of the recall value. Even other times it's valued at a 1/10th of a percent.

It gets crazier.

Random item of many that are off the wall.

Recall

As you recall the bard's song, you feel a faint resonating vibration from the imflass flamberge in your hand, and you learn something about it...

It imparts a bonus of +12 more than usual.
It appears to weigh about 7 pounds.
It is estimated to be worth about 40,000 silvers.
It is predominantly crafted of imflass.
It is a simple project (41 difficulty) for an adventurer to modify.
It has a temporarily unlocked loresong by a bard for 29 days, 22 hours and 52 minutes.

Dwarf with 202 Trading appraises who has a player shop in Solhaven but is MH citizen. INF Bonus of 10

You ask Walsor Gryhm to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
Walsor Gryhm turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 2,427 silver coins for it."

Sylvankind with 202 Trading appraises with citizenship in Solhaven. INF bonus of 14

You ask Walsor Gryhm to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
Walsor Gryhm turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 14,640 silver coins for it."

It gets better.

Sylvankind appraises a second time.

You ask Walsor Gryhm to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
Walsor Gryhm stares at you and asks, "Do you take me for a fool, <InsertSylvankindhere>?"

Hand it back to the dwarf.

You ask Walsor Gryhm to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
Walsor Gryhm stares at you and asks, "Do you take me for a fool, <insertdwarfhere>?"

Try to sell it?

You offer to sell your imflass flamberge to Walsor Gryhm.
Walsor Gryhm says, "That's basically worthless here, <Insertdwarfhere>.  Maybe you can find a buyer somewhere in town, but I doubt it."

Dwarf appraises in Caravansary

You ask the pawnbroker to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
The pawnbroker turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
 "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 12,000 silver coins for it."

Sylvankind appraises in Caravansary

You ask the pawnbroker to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
The pawnbroker turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
 "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 15,120 silver coins for it."

Even more fun. Prior to this set of testing. Dwarf appraises flamberge.

You ask Walsor Gryhm to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
Walsor Gryhm turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 71 silver coins for it."
barren briar
#

Walsor Gryhm is running a silver kings front, it’s all a fake business and he just makes numbers up

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This example is amazing

hybrid rose
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I've parsed logs going back years, but unfortunately they are kind of all over and not complete. So I don't have consistency, but I do see it happening the most in august(s) and february(s).

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Example from early this morning to show it's not one offs.

2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  imflass studded leather     100
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  fireleaf runestaff          100
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  reinforced leather          100
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  imflass greatshield         100
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  mithril broadsword          103
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  imflass shield              100
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  vultite yierka-spur         141
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  glaes helm                  126
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  mithril main gauche         151
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  vultite arm greaves         151
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  vultite morning star        103
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  drakar jeddart-axe          103
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  mithril rapier              117
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  rolaren falchion            117
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  drakar battle axe            75
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  mithril broadsword           96
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  mithril mace                 99
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  vultite broadsword           33
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  imflass handaxe              20
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  gornar war hammer            30
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  orase runestaff              33
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  mossbark runestaff           99
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  cuirbouilli leather         100
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  cuirbouilli leather         100
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  cuirbouilli leather         100
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  faenor dagger                99
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  vultite estoc                99
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  brigandine armor             99
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  imflass dart                 99
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  hoarbeam runestaff          151
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  rowan runestaff             250
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  mithril main gauche         252
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  vultite half plate          372
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  white ora yierka-spur       250
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  mithglin backsword          250
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  rolaren shield              250
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  ora backsword               250
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  mossbark runestaff          262
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  reinforced leather          324
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  full leather                347
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  glaes arm greaves           359
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  studded copper crown        319
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  mithril longsword           282
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  gornar-weighted blackjack   297
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  mithglin fist-scythe        359
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  white ora longsword         202
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  hoarbeam runestaff          219
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  rhimar-tipped whip-blade    459
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  imflass morning star        201
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  composite bow               179
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  mithril foil                190
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  deringo runestaff           359
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  ora metal breastplate       402
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  deringo runestaff           250
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  carmiln runestaff           250
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  kakore aegis                250
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  white ora broadsword        250
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  vaalorn greathelm           238
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  mesille runestaff           239
2/25/2024 12:24:45 AM  yew heavy crossbow          243
tidal cosmos
#

The only theories I think make any sense whatsoever (and, even then, they don't) are that either A) something's overloading where too much bonus percentage on sales somehow rolls over and becomes a negative number or B) the pawnshop pressure system is fundamentally broken.

A major problem for theory A is that I can't see why only Solhaven would be affected. A major problem for theory B is that I can't see why only Solhaven would be affected... to that degree.

Elaborating on that second one...

In theory, the Landing pawnshop and Northern Caravansary pawnshop should have identical race bonuses, but in practice I get more silver for weapons in the Caravansary pawnshop and more silver for armor and shields in the Landing pawnshop. (At least during Duskruin. I don't sell enough outside Duskruin to particularly notice.) If pawnshop pressure were working properly, I have to imagine the Landing pawnshop would always be more pressured than the Caravansary on every item type.

Still, those differences are only small percentage points and nothing like the Solhaven scenario where you can get literally hundreds of times as much silver selling elsewhere. So I think something more is going on in Solhaven than just broken things in the pawnshop pressure system.

(As a sidenote, the Landing and Caravansary pawnshop, furrier, and gemshop all appear to use the same race bonus as each other, but the Caravansary consignment doesn't give, say, half-elves (half-sylvans) the favorable pricing that the Landing consignment does.)

barren briar
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if it is affecting exactly one pawnshop and the numbers vary for the same item I feel like some sort of data corruption is more likely really, but that's impossible to judge from outside

hybrid rose
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This has burned me pretty heavily in past years. For DR I would typically go to the gemshop/pawnshop. Sell off everything that didn't require selling twice to get a note. Than I would review it all. I figured out the hard way after not getting anything near the normal for a day or two that the prices were crazy bad.

tidal cosmos
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I haven't been able to reproduce on the test server, but the problem with the test server is I can't generate the amount of varied gear that I can in the live game. The things I tried were:

  • Buying 4x stuff from Landing shops and reselling it in Solhaven
  • Buying things off the Solhaven pawnshop tables and then reselling them
  • Collecting full plate and double chain from reivers, then selling those in Solhaven

...but none of those generated any weird behavior. I actually briefly tried that second option even in the live game, but, again, no weird behavior.

To Tikba's point, the things I was using as fodder were either carbon copies or things that already passed muster enough to make it onto pawnshop tables, so maybe it is data corruption. Getting onto a pawnshop table also fundamentally alters an item in at least one way by adding an unsellable mark to it (which I obviously then remove to resell).

paper sparrow
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Is it possibly due to more sales occurring in solhaven due to sanctum of scales and someone(s) farming it more than any other area?

tidal cosmos
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I can't even imagine Solhaven outstripping the Landing sales-wise, but only GMs would know for sure!

paper sparrow
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This is in the platinum instance but I'm a human and have used the Solhaven panwshop for years. I was thinking examining the differences between the two instances might highlight an issue. The issue does not exist in platinum to my knowledge.

hybrid rose
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Certainly seems like the pawnshop is broke. The fact that I can get .01% of value. Leave. Come back ten minutes later. Get 7% of value. Than a minute later be told it has no value.

I sell alot to the Solhaven pawnshop throughout the year and somtimes in large bursts. I only notice this craziness during Duskruins. I can find one offs outside of Duskruin. Wish my logs were in better order. Some here. Some there. Some everywhere. Overlapping names. Requires effort. Blech.

tidal cosmos
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The Sanctum does have its regulars, but not nearly as many of them as OTF or Nelemar. And a lot of those regulars drop off during Duskruin, which makes it more perplexing why we mostly observe this during Duskruin.

paper sparrow
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Is there a specific property on the item that is not being valued correctly? Duskruin typically drops items with more properties such as enhancives

tidal cosmos
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The imflass flamberge in the OP example was just a vanilla +12.

paper sparrow
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I'm a human and have zero trading skill. Influence bonus is 25.

tidal cosmos
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Yeah, the main reason I wanted to try to reproduce on the test server was so I could change Trading at will, since Ensayn are I are both maxed on that. Unfortunately, though, first I'd have to be able to get the inconsistency to show up at all on the test server and I can't even do that...

paper sparrow
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No possibility race would be involved or is everyone a human?

hybrid rose
# 
You ask Walsor Gryhm to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
Walsor Gryhm turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 20 silver coins for it."
tidal cosmos
#

I (used to) sell with half-elves and humans while Ensayn's selling with dwarves and sylvans, but we see the same results of wildly undervalued things.

So my overflow-to-a-negative-number theory couldn't apply in tandem with races since Ensayn's not even selling with ones that get bonuses. It would have to somehow overflow on Trading alone, which is strange since Trading+race can exceed the maximum possible from Trading alone. (Which is 28% on Trading alone and 33% with both. And no, you can't just pump Trading even higher to get to 29% or more on a character with no race bonus.)

paper sparrow
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Could it be another weird loot cap bug?

hybrid rose
#

Here is me sprinting back and forth between the caravansary and solhaven.

You ask the pawnbroker to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
The pawnbroker turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
 "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 12,000 silver coins for it."

You ask Walsor Gryhm to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
Walsor Gryhm turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 3,360 silver coins for it."

You ask the pawnbroker to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
The pawnbroker turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
 "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 12,000 silver coins for it."

You ask Walsor Gryhm to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
Walsor Gryhm turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 26 silver coins for it."

You ask the pawnbroker to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
The pawnbroker turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
 "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 12,000 silver coins for it."

You ask Walsor Gryhm to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
Walsor Gryhm turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 287 silver coins for it."

You ask the pawnbroker to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
The pawnbroker turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
 "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 12,000 silver coins for it."

You ask Walsor Gryhm to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
Walsor Gryhm turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 7,068 silver coins for it."
paper sparrow
#

If all of the items you're selling are somehow being tracked as loot cap that would explain why you're getting no value for some items

hybrid rose
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This is just the same item over and over. If I try to appraise it twice. It has no value. Run to the caravansary and back. It's reset and I get a new random value.

tidal cosmos
# paper sparrow Could it be another weird loot cap bug?

It's possible, but it would have to be in a very weird and indirect way. I can move an item onto a character who's done no hunting (and is on a different account) and still see the weird Solhaven pawnshop results. Even then, we'd still have to figure out why it affects only that specific pawnshop.

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Wait a minute...

Thandiwe wasn't able to reproduce the results last time, but we don't know exactly what she was trying to do. Maybe ask her to duplicate that exact lime green imflass flamberge, then test. If she doesn't see weird results, pump Trading to 202 and test again. If still no weird results, then it's not related to the item or Trading, right? But if there are weird results, then it is related to one of those two.

paper sparrow
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Was she testing in dev environment or live though

hybrid rose
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Hobbit with 25 trading ranks and 11 INF bonus.

You ask Walsor Gryhm to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
Walsor Gryhm turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 13,680 silver coins for it."
    
You ask the pawnbroker to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
The pawnbroker turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
 "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 13,680 silver coins for it."

You ask Walsor Gryhm to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
Walsor Gryhm turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 13,680 silver coins for it."
tidal cosmos
paper sparrow
#

I'm assuming the previous example you posted Ensayn is someone that should be getting more value than the hobbit?

hybrid rose
#

Elf with 0 trading ranks and 38 INF bonus.

You ask the pawnbroker to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
The pawnbroker turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
 "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 12,000 silver coins for it."

You ask Walsor Gryhm to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
Walsor Gryhm turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 12,000 silver coins for it."
fickle apex
#

So weird.

hybrid rose
#

Wood Elf. . . Sylvankind with 202 trading ranks and 14 INF bonus.


You ask the pawnbroker to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
The pawnbroker turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
 "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 15,120 silver coins for it."
>

You ask Walsor Gryhm to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
Walsor Gryhm turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 14,640 silver coins for it."

You ask the pawnbroker to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
The pawnbroker turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
 "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 15,120 silver coins for it."

You ask Walsor Gryhm to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
Walsor Gryhm turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times.
Walsor Gryhm says, "Hmm, a most impressive weapon of note.  I'll give you 14,640 silver coins for it."
#

So maybe it has to do with tracking the 1 million limit for trading bonus? Dwarf does ALL the selling cause . . meh.

tidal cosmos
#

As an aside, just checked locksmith traps on my human rogue real quick (202 Trading, 23 INF bonus). I get 60 for needles in the Caravansary and 54 in Solhaven, and 80 for jaws in the Caravansary and 71 in Solhaven.

Which is still weird, but not absolutely crazy like the flamberge results where it can somehow fall to literally zero value. A level of ~10% difference (...well, ~15% since I should have also been getting a bonus for being human in Solhaven) is the kind of thing I would expect to see from pawnshop pressure, at least as it's been described.

paper sparrow
#

That would be interesting. The 1 million silvers cap on trading isn't being implemented correctly and instead its devaluing the item rather than just eliminating the bonus

tidal cosmos
# hybrid rose So maybe it has to do with tracking the 1 million limit for trading bonus? Dwar...

Hmm... I don't think so since I eventually started having all my characters sell their own arena prizes once I realized that the 1m Trading cap did apply to those even though they're from pay events, but I don't remember the exact time I started doing that. (It was last year, but not sure if August or February.)

I'll check next time I get more Duskruin entries and wins to toy around with, so March 1 at latest.

hybrid rose
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For now though. I can break it at will. 🙂

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Which I see multiple issues. One the huge devaluing. Two that the price will change every reset. Three that reappraising makes the value worthless.

Do you see number three happening, Leafiara?

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Also. IMT and WL give me the same price, 11400. MH gives me a lower price, 10800. (Go premium!) RR and Caravan give me the same slightly best price, 12000. Solhaven . . . drugs and booze.

tidal cosmos
#

I've seen number 3 happening, yeah, but I don't usually rigorously test for it.

hazy plover
#

We are aware of the issue and looking into it

hybrid rose
#

Can we have a port out of the Caravansary? Oh yeah tables too. This needs to be my new home.

PS. Thanks, Vanah.

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Don't forget to check that the +30% dwarven bonus is in place.

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You ask Walsor Gryhm to appraise a lime green imflass flamberge.
Walsor Gryhm turns the flamberge over in his hands a few times as he stands a thick haze of smoke coughing.
Walsor Gryhm says very deeply, "That's one sharp piece of shiny you got there. I'll give you a rusty nail and a half eaten sandwich for it."
limpid crown
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