#[Duskruin] Right to Flare Arms

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

fickle zealot
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now how can we convince Naiken to make unlinked pound two separate rolls so the first one can "set up" the second one to have a better roll...I heard set ups are in vogue right now

hybrid barn
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is that like the Monty Hall problem?

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are you sure you'd want to risk a failure after a success?

fickle zealot
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I want to risk success after a failure

hybrid barn
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it's gonna be both ways though, if it's even doable. it would require a big reconfiguration

fickle zealot
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when I first read about it I thought ok grapple into lightning or something but knocking them down after stunning them doesn't add that much bonus - but maybe that would be a good play to try and get the lightning to hit harder

verbal pond
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i know dispel flares tend to go off pre attack. is that the case for these if unlinked in a pound combination?

hybrid barn
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they use disruption for Pound

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same as when they go off pre-attack with no spells to dispel

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Pound is intended to be a damaging flare. that's why Acuity and Mana are also disruption

barren latch
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While these don’t function with UCS, can they be worn at the same time as a pair of UCS handwraps? (Thinking about spell thieve/ranged which needs an ensorcelled right hand weapon)

sonic dagger
#

No, they use a functional hand slot

barren latch
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I figured they did, good to confirm.

fleet snow
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The pound feature is awesome, and the item in general is a total win, but the 1d5 targets for me makes it unreliable when i need it.

radiant trench
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some of us keep training new ones

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So, one of the cool things about the Vambraces is you can seemlessly slip between UCS and weapons. Having UCS gloves like these gloves would be pretty special. Having them also work when I'm dual wielding longblades or tomahawks would also be great. I'll wait until August and see, with the understanding that they may remain the same, but I'm hoping some UCS gloves of these get created and approved.

wanton path
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Ooooo works on vambraces? Oh man.

dusty mirage
indigo otter
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Throwing this out there if its simple to do(a next run thing), turning in a set of these gloves to an npc at the shop could destroy the gloves and return the unlock certs used on the gloves, so they can be used on the UAC versions for those that want them

lavish flint
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what does this mean? [The flare may be required to already exist or be a lower increment.]

hybrid barn
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for flares like Acuity, Dispel, and Mana that have tiers

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if the cert is +2 Dispel, it may require +1 first

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is that from the wiki?

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the language changed a bit after Duskruin opened

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where applicable, they now say: [The flare must already exist at the previous tier.]

lavish flint
hybrid barn
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there are no tiers. just addons and unlocks

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once you unlock a flare, it's available for one or both hands

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it's a flare buffet!

lavish flint
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Ok thank you. And sorry i didnt mean to ping you

hybrid barn
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all good

lavish flint
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And the only other requirement is your weapon not have any cat b flares..correct

scarlet monolith
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Yes!

low junco
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Wait, can I buy a second +1 Dispel flare cert to bring the gloves up to +2 Dispel? Or is the current cap +1 Dispel?

scarlet monolith
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Current cap is +1 dispel

low junco
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Ok, cool, was worried I missed something

hybrid barn
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not this run, but possibly August will have some boosts

whole delta
#

Gauntlet gang rise up.

scarlet monolith
lavish flint
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another question... the greater flare unlock.. this grant GEF correct? meaning, i do not need to have GEF in place already via hess?

sonic dagger
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You can't have GEF from HESS - because that would mean you have a cat B flare 😉 (yes, you are correct)

lavish flint
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thank you, im easily confused, and duped into regretful things.... i was the kid who didnt ask to see the candy first

weary agate
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So cost/benefit on gloves if you are only picking up one flare right now what would you go with? Dispel/magma/lightening other? Or do people just throw BS at everything and not think about value anymore 😬

hexed tapir
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I got magma, because it has been a bit of a white whale for me. I plan to also get either dispel or GEF (or both)

weary agate
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is magma a post-resolution flare like elemental flares? just more powerful? I did consider it but seen how great the pre-dispel is so was bouncing back and forth and 20k more is...well thats still real money to me

real anvil
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magma is post-resolution and is a standard flare that also inflicts slow

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people like it for the slow and also because it's really hard to get (this is the first place you can get it OTS)

unreal tree
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Lightning with the GEF unlock.
Been using it for over a week and the death crits (even without flare affinity) are legit.

winged dagger
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I went dispel/magma/cold/impact with GEF

fleet snow
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Raw killing power=gef lightning

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Very hard to beat that in a flare that is actually available

digital pebble
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Me.....it's for me.

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I'll locker my animalistic gloves for the opportunity to have flare variety depending on what I am fighting....even if I lose the script flare (to be fair I have it in other places anyway)....would probably do animal boots at that point though

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I can't use the version of these out now because I need to be able to enchant my gloves to 8x to punch demons

scarlet monolith
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I've done GEF Lightning and I am going to add Magma as well.

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I am going to wait on Dispel until you can add more attempts.

weary agate
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do the flare gloves only allow 1 dispell? the HEss 30k dispel boost don't work for them?

main spade
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currently that's the case, it's quite possible there will be dispel upgrade certs next time, but the flare gloves use specific certs, hess certs won't work on it

weary agate
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ah okay thanks that does change one of my decisions (glad I asked!)

shell pawn
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I did GEf lightning, magma, acuity and unlocked pound and unlinked them.. from not knowing nuttin about them yesterday, I’m in love today 😆

winged dagger
scarlet monolith
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Oh no!

crimson plume
shell pawn
# crimson plume in what order?

Doesn’t matter. You can only use one at a time. You set which flare is going to be in use. You can use two flares if you unlink the gloves and set each glove to a dif flare. For me both would only flare with pound, since I’m a runestaff user.

void quarry
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hm.. just to clarify its working as intended.. when using pound with dispel flares.. its just disruption damage and doesn't actually trigger a dispel?

hybrid barn
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Yes

void quarry
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scrolled back and see this was answered, lol.. sorry

foggy blade
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All this talk about magma and no Austin Powers reference? Hmm.

Also, maybe this is the answer to my 10x boring mace for my alt?

scarlet monolith
vagrant fable
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Life saver right there, since I'm clearly inept at using words.

ember vector
hybrid barn
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what do you mean?

ember vector
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Bought 4 dispel flare items from HESS. But could only redeem the first one until the flare existed on the weapon, since I couldn't redeem dispel boosts 2-3 until Dispel 1 existed. And couldn't redeem dispel 4 until dispel 3 existed

lilac robin
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can you level up the dispell patch now? I thought that wasnt until August?

mortal fulcrum
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I would expect that since HESS certs are handled by a person, You wouldn't have to stagger redemptions like that.

I'd probably still redeem them in order to reduce confusion.

sonic dagger
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I was also under the impression that HESS certs wouldn't work

vagrant fable
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Yeah is that new, or are you broken again.

real anvil
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I believe whirlin is talking about dispel flares from HESS, unrelated to the gloves

sonic dagger
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From the language, it seems like Whirlin is in the wrong thread 😆

hybrid barn
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oh, okay. so i'm not crazy

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or that crazy

ember vector
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yeah, didn't read more about the context, thought it was more of a universal change

hybrid barn
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on top of me being the one who did his Dispel redemptions 😄

ember vector
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I still haven't gotten multiple dispel rounds to trigger yet though! And, apparently with a modern OS, I can't save sounds on the WFE side

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ok, found the bug. The second dispel flare is causing the arrow normal elemental flare... but... this isn't the right place to further discuss

hybrid barn
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correct, but the weapon's script can't be GEF

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more for its potential double flare

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it wasn't actually double at release. the GEF flares were 10 stamina but dropped down to five, so now the GEF adder does come out to double

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but originally a +5 adder

eager bolt
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no... these are no Fun with just Pound ```[bigshot]>pound half
You slam your black suede half-gloves together, their rolaren traces searing with absinthe light. The right half-glove emits a searing bolt of lightning, and the left half-glove expels a glob of molten magma!

An Ithzir seer is in the way!
[SMR result: 164 (Open d100: 67, Bonus: 9)]
... 15 points of damage!
Hard jolt knocks the Ithzir seer back on her heels.
... 15 points of damage!
Burst of flames to right leg blackens kneecap.
The molten magma rapidly cools and hardens into constricting rock.

An Ithzir seer is in the way!
[SMR result: 156 (Open d100: 48, Bonus: 20)]
... 25 points of damage!
Nasty shock to right arm stiffens joints. Nice and painful.
... 15 points of damage!
Burst of flames to left arm toasts skin to elbows.
The molten magma rapidly cools and hardens into constricting rock.

A greater construct is in the way!
[SMR result: 104 (Open d100: 18, Bonus: 5)]
... 25 points of damage!
Heavy jolt to chest causes solar plexus to explode. Remarkable display of spraying blood.
... 25 points of damage!
Back bursts into a spectacular display of flames. Bet it hurts too.
The molten magma rapidly cools and hardens into constricting rock.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.```

fickle zealot
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has anyone tested POUND on vvrael yet? if that would give me a way to mess with vvrael it would be worth the price for that alone

hybrid barn
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do flares work on them normally?

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or is this more about the SMR?

fickle zealot
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magic doesn't work on them...I have no physical dudes who can hunt vvrael...but I wouldn't be surprised if you hit them with a sword and a flare from the weapon worked...but also wouldn't be surprised if that didn't work.

sonic dagger
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Normal flares do work

main spade
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I believe hand pylons work on them, so pound should work

fickle zealot
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if they get too swarmy on me and I want to finish clearing out the room I could magma pound them to buy me some time (the Scatter can get nutso sometimes)

scarlet monolith
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You place the patches against the backs of your archer's gloves, their runes aglow as the gloves absorb them.
[The archer's gloves now possess Magma flares.]```
It's on!
low belfry
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What is the stamina cost on the magma flares ?

scarlet monolith
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Looks like 10.

vagrant fable
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Upgrade cert to override Cat B Flares next DR?

void quarry
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certs I'd like to see next DR:
-dispel/accuity/mana upgrade
-shield
-stamina/mana toggle

thorn cipher
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-terror

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(I don't expect that)

hexed tapir
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what would the price/stamina cost be for death flares?

hybrid barn
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don't know about price. they would cost 15 stamina

hexed tapir
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oh is 15 stamina the max then?

hybrid barn
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yes

eager bolt
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Yes!!! Xaz flares!!!!

hybrid barn
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death flares are not currently supported

eager bolt
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I know..but we can DREAM!!!

sonic dagger
stoic oracle
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when they flare they drain all your stamina

paper violet
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mana vial flares... pound mana out of the soil. like digging for mana

valid sage
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hm i'm not sure if i'm doing something wrong but I cant seem to get the gloves to flare for me. i'm using a sephwir xbow with just ensorcelling

verbal pond
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fidget my gloves with x left

with x being the flare type

weary agate
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I think the arena really amplifies how annoying the stamina drain is for me but I notice it. As a melee using a decent number of maneuvers it builds up. But I’m still a fan. Just want them to work with shields so fingers crossed for August

vagrant fable
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Yeah, I love these gloves, but I'd never get them for my warrior. Stamina is too important. Well, maybe I would with some stamina enhancives.

weary agate
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I handed them to my rogue who’s been using them for a bit but I only have cheap ones with a single flare so will probably cycle them through different alts will they can be used with a shield then I’ll buy better flares

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And yes stamina regen is now a bucket list thing

valid sage
hybrid barn
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does your bow and/or ammo flare?

valid sage
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no, its a 8x sephwir crossbow with just t5 ensorcelling. the ammo is just plain stuff from the bowyer

vagrant fable
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use the point and click setting maybe. I couldn't get the words right on them either, but the PnC worked.

hybrid barn
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are you sure the ammo is plain?

valid sage
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`>anal my bolt
You analyze your wooden bolts and sense that the item is free from merchant alteration restrictions.

You get no sense of whether or not the bolts may be further lightened.`

mystic bone
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Grab some bolts from a player shop that are made of magical wood. The type sold by the town fletchers are not considered magic and that might be causing an issue.

vagrant fable
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That would be....odd, but worth a shot.

hybrid barn
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seems to be sorted

tidal hornet
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So, before I go and spend all my BS on these gloves, I just want to make sure I understand a few points:

  1. If I want to unlock greater elemental lightening flares, I need to first get regular lightening flares (15k), then the greater elemental unlock (60k), right?
  2. These don't flare on the shield hand, correct? So if I'm using a shield, there's really no point in having them unlinked with a different flare on the shield hand glove?
  3. If I unlock pound, will that work if I'm using a shield?
hybrid barn
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  1. Yes
  2. No, they currently don't work for shields. It's something I may pursue/request at some point
  3. Pound is solely a gloves ability. What you're holding has no impact
tidal hornet
void quarry
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I think my only real complaint about the gloves is that Pound feels lackluster, even unlinked.. between the SMR check, the straight 1d5 and the 10 minute cooldown.. if there were a greater chance to hit multiple targets and/or the cooldown was lowered, I'd feel better. Still overall satisfied, though

sonic dagger
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2+1d3 would be a better baseline for targets, if it’s intended to be an AoE skill

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Similar to how the PSM AoE skills have a baseline of 3 that is further modified by training

strong stream
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Eventually we will get to a point where spell abilities dont even matter, everyone will just rotate through OP item cooldowns.... pylon, flare gloves pound, mana cloak, essence belt, shrieking neckpouch, animalistic headress, triple dispel wand, triple cloud wand, pylon again..... repeat

verbal slate
sonic dagger
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Valence/greater rhimar add a ton of activatables too. Backpack of ghrimar weapons with blizzard unlocked 😆

fleet snow
hexed tapir
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Outside of arena, are there many fire-resistant/immune creatures out there? I have magma, getting lightning/GEF, but trying to decide if I need ice/void as a compliment

stray pebble
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I think the fire elementals, unsure of what else.

valid sage
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disregard

void quarry
void quarry
fleet snow
winged dagger
bold elbow
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I'm having issues with the gloves overriding my rusalkoren weapon flares

hybrid barn
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the gloves don't override existing flares

fleet snow
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Rusalkoren is material flares. The gloves give you ability slot flares. you should get both, not an overwrite.

bold elbow
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The rusalkoren ability is not going off at all, but the gloves are

vagrant fable
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Need the Override unlock next Dr...just sayin

hybrid barn
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i'm going to look into that

bold elbow
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I appreciate it. I can report they play nice with starsong

hybrid barn
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the rusalkoren is working for me in Dev with the gloves

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keep swinging?

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is it the critter?

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i don't know much about ruselkoren

bold elbow
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I'm doing another 25 rounds just to confirm it. I usually get them to flare every critter. i have magma on it if that makes a difference

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** Your rusalkoren spikestar expels a glob of molten magma! **
... 20 points of damage!
Nasty burns to back. Won't be sleeping on that for awhile.
The molten magma rapidly cools and hardens into constricting rock.
You lose your focus on a snowy white tri-toed tegu's critical weaknesses.

** Exploding in a tumbling current of frothy foam, a wave of sea water suddenly materializes at the call of your rusalkoren spikestar and courses through the room. **

Strong currents tug at a snowy white tri-toed tegu, pulling her about in an attempt to roll over her.
[SMR result: 128 (Open d100: -13, Bonus: 79)]
Succumbing to the force of the tidal wave, a snowy white tri-toed tegu is thrown to the ground.

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Worked on that one. Just seems to flare a ton less

hybrid barn
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poor Flare Gloves always getting blamed!

bold elbow
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Thanks for looking into it

inner quest
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wonder if they share a cooldown?

hybrid barn
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standard flares don't have a cooldown. plus Flare Gloves have no connection to material abilities

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Flare Gloves usher your weapon through the combat system as if they possess flares

inner quest
#

ah, that makes more sense

verbal pond
#

pound gl
You slam your black cherry gloves together, the eahnor traces of the right glove searing with inky black light.!

A spectral fisherman is in the way!
[SMR result: 260 (Open d100: 136)]

A spectral fisherman is in the way!
[SMR result: 202 (Open d100: 78)]
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

sense glo
You study the shifting inky black rune expressions on your black cherry gloves and the power they hold:

Dispel Set: left
Mana Set: ---- right

Left (None): on (off) Right (Dispel): off (on)

https://gswiki.play.net/Spectral_fisherman

should this not have had some sort of damage component to it? it does not look like these creatures wear any spells.

hybrid barn
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well that's weird

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you don't have any flares enabled

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but there's a bug because that should've stopped the flaring portion

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your right hand is set to Dispel, but the right hand is currently off

verbal pond
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i figured that it just set the weapon attack flares to off but pound would still be usable.
you are right though that if it just stopped the pound ability all together i would have figured it just didnt work in the off position

hybrid barn
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the hands being on/off do affect POUND. that gives you some flexibility

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let me try to fix the bug

verbal pond
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do you want me to do a bug item or would this be across the board most likely?

hybrid barn
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no. i'm looking at it now

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it's a script bug, not your gloves specifically

lilac robin
#

I'd kind of hoped you'd purposefully coded yourself in as an illusory spectral fisherman.

hybrid barn
#

try now?

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i had something switched

verbal pond
#

pound glo
You pound your gloved fists against your chest, setting aglow the inky black sigils streaming along their eahnor traces.

The wording makes it sound like it turns the gloves on actually

hybrid barn
#

it's just some RP messaging

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if you turn on your right hand, it should do the flare

verbal pond
#

ok thanks for your help!

tidal hornet
#

So, I got the gloves and the POUND unlock, but when I type in POUND in combat, it doesn't do anything. It just brings up the usage for that verb. Is it a different command?

lilac robin
tidal hornet
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Yeah, took a bit to figure out. Since I got the half-gloves, I got it to with with 'pound my half-glove'. Pound glove just does some ambient messaging about pounding my hands together

lilac robin
#

yeah, the noun will matter. cool!

radiant trench
#

how much weight does the "very small amount" hold for the pockets? wiki has very small as <2 to 4...obviously, less than 2 is basically 0-4

foggy blade
lavish flint
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are steam flares that much more powerful that they justify a price double other flares?

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and dang these blow through stamina with twc.... will these blow your muscles or will they just not flare if you dont have enough stamina?

marsh radish
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From what I remember being said, they just won’t flare if you don’t have the stamina.

lavish flint
#

ok so i just need to pay more attention to my cman usage

eager bolt
#

My Wizard is rocking the Gloves.... No issues with stamina, his 107 works great

My Ranger will get some next

lavish flint
#

its my ranger that has them twc with MoC flurry can proc a buncha flares

eager bolt
lavish flint
#

nice, happy hunting

verbal slate
winged dagger
#

I know these wont work with anti-magic weapons, but will they work with Kroderine Soul or nah?

vagrant fable
#

Unless KS can't use flaring weapons it seems like they should. But, I still don't think they shine on squares who need stamina.

hybrid barn
#

i haven't done any testing with KS, but the gloves themselves don't care if you're KS. if you can use flaring weapons and have flares go off, the gloves should work

weary agate
#

KS flares just fine. my warrior tried it just didn't like the stamina drain but KS doesn't impact the flares.

hushed vault
#

so these bad boys work with sigil staves, right?

sonic dagger
#

yes

marsh radish
#

Yep

inner quest
#

they just stop working when the weapon has a cat_b flare already. 😄

main spade
#

it's possible it's intended, but is the gloves not working with volley intended? did a good bit of testing and they definitely don't flare with it

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even if the weapon's still out and such, I ask because normal cat b flares do work with volley, so it might be a bug might not I dunno. Ranged is weird haha

torpid parcel
#

I'm guessing the gloves didn't think to check through such an unconventional attack system (as opposed to normal AS), heh.

zinc tartan
#

Might need to read up a few comments to get context. But that was my sense based on Naiken’s statements.

main spade
#

yeah I bugged it, i did like 20ish volleys saw plenty of script flares, none from the gloves, they were the plainest wooden arrows never touched

misty iron
#

flares have a long and storied history of being screwy when it comes to volley

open crystal
#

I'm wondering if starsong flares work with volley. I'm guessing no.

main spade
#

I don't believe any material flares do?

torpid parcel
#

Kaetel would know, I believe.

real anvil
#

#1118916479098818622 message

fair glade
#

I have a weapon that I can't figure out why it's not able to work with the flaring gloves.

It is forged by Kupaka and has increased (+3) effectiveness in combat.
It is temporarily infused with a divine flaming substance.
It appears to weigh about 4 pounds.
It is estimated to be worth about 74,050,000 silvers.
It is very heavily weighted to inflict more critical wounds than a normal weapon of its type.
It is predominantly crafted of mithril.
It has been ensorcelled 5 times.
It has been bound to Agiant via Weapon Bonding.
It may be enchanted up to a bonus of 40 by a wizard and was last enchanted by Almaes.
It is a sophisticated project (759 difficulty) for an adventurer to modify.
It contains the Stalwart Resilience flare that provides expertly damage padded protection.
It has a permanently unlocked loresong by Farek.```
#

The only thing that seems possible to conflict is maybe the consecration, 1604, that was added by my paladin some time ago. For some reason it's not dropped off the weapon after I took it over.

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I tried having the 1604 removed with 119, but it did not work.

inner quest
#

It contains the Stalwart Resilience flare that provides expertly damage padded protection.

Perhaps this is causing an issue?

stone totem
#

Shouldn't, Stalwart Resilience (Bubble Flares) live in script slot

worn dust
#

1604 is preventing the gloves from working

strong stream
#

until Naiken can get the gloves to work on top of other flares and/or 1625 infused flares its no bueno for paladins

weary agate
#

And shields…def need them to flare with shields

sonic dagger
fair glade
hybrid barn
#

if you have a weapon that doesn't work with the gloves (but you think it should), you should BUGITEM the weapon instead of the gloves. i need to see the weapon

#

Volley just isn't set up to really play well with scripted items. i don't have any info on if/when it might be updated

main spade
#

thanks for the update, yeah I wasn't sure on volley what to nessecarily bug, just knew that it probably is intended to work, but obviously with all the history of getting flares working with volley it's probably much trickier than I know to make happen, the normal weapon firing and such works well, awesome item

fair glade
grizzled jacinth
#

I've had blesses not drop off of weapons correctly before too, definitely an issue to assist on

hybrid barn
#

BUGITEM is going to have a better result than an assist

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it's going to take some investigation

unreal tree
#

Have you tried casting spirit dispel at the weapon?

fair glade
#

Multiple times, tried recasting 1604 on it then 119 following, to no avail.

winged dagger
#

I had a similar issue, maybe not with 1604, but with the weapon I was using was "stuck" with a new bless and old bless that wasnt wearing off.. a GM was able to help

radiant trench
#

Okay, I really just need a UCS unlock cert so my gloves can used as UCS gloves and I'll be set for a long time. These gloves are otherwise perfect for me. My briar bow, neither of my longblades, neither of my vambrace katar blades, neither of my hair stick sai, and my UCS boots don't have a B slot used. Just banes, scripts, or material properties, lol.

hybrid barn
#

an unlock to UCS isn't possible. it'd have to be a new item

#

or maybe a HESS service to convert

radiant trench
#

It will do more damage with the TWC things, but it's pretty cool on my bow too. I unlocked all the things but moods, and added two standard flares for the GEF so far, but ultimately I can add all these different flares and have whatever options I need. I love it!

#

Well, if they allow the HESS cert to work, it would be worth it, but it would need to be a new cert that allows to convert these gloves somehow.

hybrid barn
#

i can see about having a service added for August so you don't have to buy another pair and unlock flares

lilac robin
#

Just.. spitballing here because obviously it would be a whole ass mechanical combat project. But wouldn't it be cool of there were elemental combos with these? Like if left and right are set to two elements that can synergize (water/fire, steam, etc) and if they co-proc on a swing you get a third flare that is the combo?

radiant trench
#

Are cookies yummy? YES! Lol, of course that would be cool. Like a mage freezing a critter and then dropping rocks on it.

lilac robin
#

yea that'd be so neat. earth ice for shatter damage, def. even double procs of the same element, double fire leading to an immolation third flare or somethin'. It'd get carried away. But also, neat.

radiant trench
#

You put a knapped obsidian blade hilted with braided glowbark in your black suede half-gloves. pocket works great for my skinning/ Apdo Gno Burzka'ask blade.

sonic dagger
radiant trench
# 

An Ithzir seer is in the way!
[SMR result: 247 (Open d100: 159)]
   ... 20 points of damage!
   Good blow to left arm!
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Burst of flames to left arm burns skin bright red.

An Ithzir seer is in the way!
[SMR result: 164 (Open d100: 73, Bonus: 5)]
   ... 15 points of damage!
   Nice blow to left arm!
   ... 15 points of damage!
   Burst of flames to right leg blackens kneecap.

An Ithzir adept is in the way!
[SMR result: 150 (Open d100: 45)]
   ... 7 points of damage!
   Blow grazes left leg.
   ... 20 points of damage!
   Nasty burns to chest make you wish you never heard of heartburn.
   The Ithzir adept is stunned!

A war griffin is in the way!
[SMR result: 83 (Open d100: 15)]
It dodges out of the way!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.```
fleet snow
#

I REALLY wish these weren't 1d5 targets. Thats EXACTLY the kind of effect I was hoping for

sonic dagger
#

The average should be 2.5 targets, seems fine to me

fleet snow
#

I'm sure its a good use case for lots of folk.👍

strong stream
fleet snow
#

lol. I honestly think these gloves were the standout buy of DR
I just have specific needs

vagrant fable
#

Agreed, great item, with tons of potential down the road.

torpid parcel
#

Best individual item: Flare Gloves.
Best representation of future game-wide potential: Flourishes.

(Only referring to new items, of course!)

fleet snow
marsh radish
#

Oof I forgot about the flourishes. How much are they?

radiant trench
#

The price point for the pound option is cheaper than any flare. For the money, it's fine.

torpid parcel
#

Flourishes are 2500 bloodscrip.

tawdry moat
#

How's the stamina consumption? Minimum of 10 per flare seems high to me.

main spade
#

it's noticeable kinda, but pretty fine IMO, like zero issues on my ranger or bard playing with it, certainly wouldn't be an issue on a pure

radiant trench
#

I consider these gloves to be an extremely powerful item. Rather than pick a cat B flare for an individual weapon, I can use these to situationally dictate what flare to use on most of my weapons. In terms of Cat B flares, Having even dispel and acuity really catches most of what you could want. Psychic and Terror being two examples of exceptions. I've had no noticeable stamina problems, but I think I have some recovery enhancives and I am not using stamina really for anything else, like I'm in Voln, so there's that. I mean, I am not dropping more off my cap than I recover.

#

Of course, I've been using a bow with a min rt of 2 seconds. I might start to see it fall off with the dual katars some.

grim wadi
#

It’s only 5 now for normal flares also. The greater elemental flares are 10.

radiant trench
#

Yeah, it's not bad. My goal is to get the rest of the standard GEF flares next DR and add acuity, dispel, and magma. It would be really cool to eventually get them all.

grim wadi
#

I’d agree also it’s fineish for some semis (I wouldn’t want it on my bard I do a lot of cman setups). Probably non issue on pures. I wouldn’t even with a lot of stam regen on a square. I’d rather just have a good general purpose flare and not notice the difference.

radiant trench
#

My bard is ranged tonis, lol, I'll try it on him, but he might actually be firing too fast. Maybe not, I don't use stamina on him either.

grim wadi
#

Needs moar sweeps

radiant trench
#

Is there a stamina recovering script or material? I know my loincloth steals mana for me sometimes because it's aganjira.

sonic dagger
#

Animal spirit has a stam regen unlock

grim wadi
#

Againjira steals stamina. lol

It does mana or stam whichever it thinks you need more

radiant trench
#

lol, well there you go

digital pebble
fleet snow
#

obv mileage will vary by class and build, but as a warrior I didn't notice the stamina

radiant trench
scarlet monolith
#

Pasting a link to this conversation in the Mechanics thread in case it gets missed. Long story short, someone's gloves weren't flaring even though they were setup correctly. They had someone else wear them and they started to flare fine. Put them back on and they flared as expected... #mechanics message

fleet snow
#

koodies bug

inner quest
#

Sometimes you gotta push the power button off and on. But yeah, just traded em and they seemed to fire right up without messing with the settings.

#

What can I say, I got the healin touch.

radiant trench
#

It has occurred to me that I need some Right To Flare paw wraps for my Jaguar. You see a fairly typical leucistic jaguar. He appears to be in good shape. He has a thick rolaren-studded collar etched with the name "Nik" (worn) and some tanned hide paw-wraps secured with sturdy glowbark buttons (worn). Can you imagine how awesome that would be?

misty iron
#

jaguar licks paw, jaguar catches fire

scarlet monolith
#

Ummm yes!!! My wolf definitely needs some too. That would be incredible.

inner quest
#

Do ranger pets have stamina?

fickle zealot
#

not that we can see - just roundtime between their actions

inner quest
#

I would guess not, unless they implemented maneuvers to use it for them.

fair glade
lavish flint
#

OHH OHH please add a patch that would allow the person wearing the gloves to handle cursed items

hexed tapir
#

These are fantastic,my only regret was not having bought more patches

hybrid barn
weary agate
#

What’s the most anyone has spent on and tricked out a pair? Anyone got a pair with all the flares?

scarlet monolith
#

I currently have GEF, Lightning, and Magma.

verbal slate
#

I've got a pair with all the add-ons, dispel, magma, lightning, fire, cold, vacuum, and impact. Also attuned, because that affects the total spend. I'll add more flares for fun in the future.

scarlet monolith
#

Dang.

torpid parcel
#

😮

digital pebble
winged dagger
#

I have GEF cold, impact, dispel, magma

verbal slate
#

It might seem unnecessary, but I've had a tremendous amount of fun playing with all of them. I've been checking out how various critters are affected by different flares in a way that I never would have been able to before.

#

For example, I never knew that yetis and dwellers shrug off fire and cold but are hit hard by impact flares. Makes a lot of sense in retrospect.

winged dagger
verbal slate
#

I intend to test that out after next DR. Water is the next one on my list because they sound fun to watch.

weary agate
#

While flares are fun my mind boggles at how much BS just went into these gloves…that being said I have a pair too and have to say it’s clear they are the winner new item. Waaaay better than a new potato or another ots weapon. Hope we see more flexible and creative ideas like these.

misty iron
#

it's weird that I don't have flare gloves but I do have 2 weapons that let me pick most any common/uncommon flare in the game

Hoping for an update at some point to make these function with shields, that probably would have sold me on a set! They are super rad but the only use case I had was one of my alts who doesn't have a flaring main hand weapon/shield

weary agate
#

Yes if these work with shields then I’ll have a reason to keep using and even expand them.

eager bolt
#

Do it!!!!!!

winged dagger
weary agate
#

wow that was a delayed message!

hybrid barn
#

Flare Gloves Tease #1


CLENCH           Toggle XXXXXX (on).

TOUCH            Toggle XXXXXX (on).```
hybrid barn
astral swift
#

I forget and I'm too lazy to scroll back. When you have a paladin bonded weapon which flares win out?

hybrid barn
#

i believe the paladin bond uses the flare/Cat B slot, so it would block the gloves

verbal slate
#

I love the idea of allowing us to toggle greater flares on and off!

hybrid barn
#

no longer an idea!

next veldt
verbal slate
hybrid barn
#

GEF on the gloves isn't a "slot"

#

it can exist with other things going on, i mean

#

it's always present, but now you can turn it off to save some stamina

next veldt
#

Yea I know any number of catD but I assumed it was a balance thing

modern scroll
#

These gloves would sell like hotcakes if they could override existing cat b flares on weapons.

verbal slate
#

Is that an unlock that I'll need to purchase during DR, Naiken, or will that be an update that rolls in on existing gloves with the GEF unlock and an elemental flare?

hybrid barn
#

it'll be rolled in with the updates

winged dagger
verbal slate
#

If you can toggle the gloves to override existing flares, there's zero reason that I can think of to remove those existing flares. The existing flares don't cost stamina to fire off.

modern scroll
#

I mean yeah.. you could PAY to remove something that you probably already payed to add in the first place…

#

Realistically almost no one is going to do that. They’re just not going to buy these gloves. Whereas if they could override flares, then they might buy them.

verbal slate
#

Right, the gloves will go from possibly a niche must-have to survivalist kit level "everyone needs a pair" must-have.

fickle zealot
#

I am thinking we will get that option this DR and my response is: TAKE MY MONEY lol

unreal tree
#

Need an option where they stack.

verbal slate
#

What stacks? Existing flares and glove flares? That would mean 2x ability slot flares, I can't see that happening.

modern scroll
#

Maybe for

image0.gif
tawdry moat
#

I could see it happening, probably in a way that makes it slightly less desireable though! There is a resource associated with the flares.

hybrid barn
#

stacks for stacks!

next veldt
#

It's probably the best upgrade I could do for that staff in terms of cost per utility

winged dagger
#

I thought my warrior would love them, but I passed them off to my semis and the gloves are great for them

modern scroll
#

I mean sure.. some people will do that.. but wouldn't you rather NOT have to do that...? There's really only 2 questions GMs making these items should ask. What will make the most money? And what will make customers happy? I think the answer to both these questions in this case is to make them override existing cat B flares on weapons. It's a win/win for everyone.

next veldt
#

Yea, my ranger has practically no use for stamina so I might remove the catB from his animal bow too

unreal tree
#

Technically a monk or anyone using UAC and brawling can stack multiple ability slot flares.

2 brawling weapons and UAC gloves.

winged dagger
unreal tree
#

It already works is the point. The overall flare rate is reduced when using brawling weapons and uac gloves that flare, but you do occasionally get the stars aligning and see 3 weapons all flare at once.

next veldt
modern scroll
#

but it doesn't make it "too good", it's just a QOL improvement so that people with weapons they've invested a lot of time and money into can use the gloves.

winged dagger
#

I thought UAC doesnt work with flare gloves at all in any way shape or form

winged dagger
torpid parcel
#

Not with Flare Gloves, specifically, but Ruse's point is about two types of things (held brawling weapons and worn UC gloves) that both have (ability slot) flares interacting with one another somehow.

That said, I assume that UC is some kind of specially/differently coded case.

unreal tree
#

I'm using UAC+brawling weapons as an example of how multiple cat b sources essentially stack since UAC isn't like two weapon combat where you swing two weapons. It's one attack pulling from 3 potential flaring locations.

#

UAC punch works with 2 cestuses that have dispel flares, rot flares, scripted flares and a pair of gloves that has the same thing. The balance is that everything is essentially reduced to a lower overall flare rate but in practice you see the same amount of flares in general. It's just a cool factor because the POTENTIAL exists for everything to pop off at once.

hybrid barn
#

Flare Gloves Teaser #2
The shop will offer one pair of UCS gloves and one pair of non-UCS gloves.

The UCS version works exactly the same (bestow flares to held weapons) but has an ability to set its inherent flare (excludes Acuity and Mana).

New certificates:
These boost Mana flares on FlareGloves by +1 (maximum +5). The flare must already exist.

These boost Acuity flares on FlareGloves by +5 (maximum +50). The flare must already exist.

These boost Dispel flares on FlareGloves by +1 (maximum +3). The flare must already exist.

hybrid barn
ember vector
#

So. I'm sure I asked this last time, but worth verifying. If I'm holding my bow because it's so shiney, and I set my gloves to a lot of acuity, would my spells cast with the potential of acuity if I wasn't holding onto a runestaff?

hexed tapir
#

Cert to change non-UCS to UCS?

bright pumice
next veldt
#

So the UCS gloves function as the "weapon" for UCS? And can they have acuity and mana if they are not set to be used for UCS?

next veldt
hexed tapir
hybrid barn
#

i gotta head out, but more teasers this weekend

ember vector
#

I bet you could sell like, billions if they worked with casting without a runestaff in your hand

#

But, that's what I thought! Always worth verifying! Excited to see more teasers

lilac badger
#

So these gloves will cause a Dispel runestaff to have an additional Dispel per certificate, up to 3 additional dispels? Is that on top of the dispels already on the runestaff? Or am I misinterpreting this. What about a sigil staff with the sigil dispel? Would these gloves boost that dispel?

ember vector
#

No, they only come up if your weapon don't have anything in the slot. Essentially a second to default when weapon property = null

eager bolt
#

The weapon/staff needs the CatB or Flare slot empty
Then basically, with the gloves, you can buy pretty much any basic including GEF flares and use whatever you choose

#

Mine have GEF lightning, Acuity. And MAGMA...sweet sweet MAGMA!!!

I'll get +5 dispel this DR

next veldt
modern scroll
#

oh no, now I'm tempted to get more acuity

marsh radish
#

Now I’m tempted to buy more pairs of these gloves 😆

eager bolt
lilac badger
eager bolt
#

Well fooey....guess it's +3 then

lilac badger
#

Seems strange since you can go up to 5 normally, and since the Acuity on these gloves goes up to 50, which I think is the max for Acuity

eager bolt
#

He uses a T5 sigil staff, so now I'll look into if I want Dispel or not

lilac badger
#

With the Unlinked Add-on, does that mean you can have two different flares happening at the same time? Does it double the flare rate? Or just randomly chooses one of the two for the standard flare rate?

foggy scaffold
#

could we get a script add option since there is a ucs version now?

eager bolt
#

Unlinked is for twc I believe
So each hand can flare

lilac badger
#

Can the GEF gloves be used on a weapon that already has a script flare?

winged dagger
#

I could use GEF flares with my animalistic weapon, yes

tawny pivot
#

Ok I think I’m a little confused on the appeal of these. Basically it just helps keep service score from going up by the flare difficulty of the weapon?

sonic dagger
#

Also allows you to easily change weapons, and flare types as needed

#

They happen to pair very nicely with the OTS DR scripted items, for example my TWC bard has a valence and duskbringer axe with no ability slot flares. With the gloves I can swap between GEF lightning for killing, or dispel if I need to control casters or spells better (plus the script flares from the weapons themselves)

tawny pivot
#

Ohhhh. Oh. Hmm. I had t thought of that. Yeah I guess if you haven’t added a cat B then definitely very cool.

#

But the price for this flexibility is you are always using stamina to get a flare?

modern scroll
#

Yes. It’s a no brainer for pures that don’t use stamina for anything else but for anyone that already uses stamina a lot you need to make sure you have enough regen to spare.

tawny pivot
#

Yeah that is what I was thinking. Who else but mutants are going to trade stamina for flares? My TWC bard never had enough stamina once PSM came out. I guess my ranger doesn’t use much. Oh oh for some reason I didn’t see that they work with runestaves as well.

lilac badger
scarlet crest
# unreal tree Technically a monk or anyone using UAC and brawling can stack multiple ability s...

I'm sure someone brought this up already.... but it doesn't work like this in practice. If you have 3 sources of ability flares (gloves and 2 weapons), the flare rate is divided by 3. I mean, sure, you can have 3 different types of flares, each at 1/3 the normal rate.
I believe it's even worse if you have 3 items but only two have Cat B flres (or ensorcells). The flare rate is divided by 3, even if only two items have the flares.

sonic dagger
#

So..what I'm hearing is we need more interaction among damage types so that there's reason to mix and match!

eager bolt
eager bolt
hybrid barn
#

Flare Gloves Teaser #3

  AS: +399 vs DS: +250 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +81 = +259
   ... and hit for 54 points of damage!
   Smooth slash to the triton combatant's hip!
   Nice crunching sound.
You feel drained.

 ** Your twohanded sword releases a spray of acid! **
   ... 20 points of damage!
   Bad burn chars the skin.  Weakened abdomen bulges ominously!
You feel drained.

 ** Your left centaur hide gauntlet releases a shimmering beam of disintegration! **
   ... 12 points of damage!
   Flesh removed, forming a long gash across abdomen!
Roundtime: 4 sec.```
hybrid barn
sonic dagger
#

Wait a what. The gloves have their own flare chance?

fickle zealot
#

Should I start asking questions? 😀

grim wadi
#

I think the fact that it was a two handed sword is material to the tease.

fickle zealot
#

Seems like this is maybe some sort of workaround so we don't have to remove our weapon flares...

sonic dagger
#

Bow + right glove?

open crystal
#

...you can stack flares.
weapon has a flare. glove has a flare. other glove has a flare. they can all go off.

scenic pagoda
#

so your weapon can have cat b and the gloves can flare?

fickle zealot
#

worrisome seeing double stamina drain though

scenic pagoda
#

flares on flares on flares on flares? (also hi vyrsh)

open crystal
#

Hey Reinhardt! ...those stamina regen enhancives looking better again?

low belfry
#

Does flare affinity apply to both the weapon flare and the flare gloves ?

sonic dagger
#

Looks to me, based on Naiken’s reaction to FFNGs observation, adding value to unlinked for those who aren’t TWC. If using a two handed weapon, the open hand of the glove has an independent flare chance. I don’t think it’s stacking on top of existing flares

sonic dagger
hybrid barn
grim wadi
#

i claim at least half of those dings

hybrid barn
#

dings all around!

astral swift
#

Does Two Handed also work with Polearms?

grim wadi
#

only h alberds in a cruel twist of fate. (i'm not naiken but i'm gonn a say 99.99999999% yes)

hybrid barn
# 
  AS: +391 vs DS: +227 with AvD: +7 + d100 roll: +16 = +187
   ... and hit for 21 points of damage!
   Minor puncture to the left leg.
You feel drained.

 ** Your imflass trident flares with a burst of flame! **
   ... 25 points of damage!
   Left hand fried to a crisp.  Think barbecue sauce.
You feel drained.

 ** Your left centaur hide gauntlet releases a shimmering beam of disintegration! **
   ... 15 points of damage!
   Hair and flesh stripped from side of head!
Roundtime: 4 sec.```
#

just has to be used two-handed

sonic dagger
#

Super cool. Now just praying for wrist/arm worn variant because I can’t replace my gloves 😭

hybrid barn
#

still handworn for this run. no promises, but i'm mulling around wrist/arm

grim wadi
#

if you do arm, including armor accessories, preemptive ask for script adding to existing 😄

hybrid barn
#

why are your gloves so much better, hmm?

grim wadi
#

i mean, i like that you've added the script made it UCS compatible, so don't take this as a complaint per se, but frankly the picking the flare is just worse (though neat) mechanically than getting another more potent in general script flare + whatever generally applicable permanent cat b flare. And people are also pretty likely to be locked into a full weapon that they may have bought attuned, which for UCS people is a bigger ask than say just removing your existing cat b for a simiiarly attuned held weapon user (and you then aren't sacrificing the combat script slot also)

if i didn't already have GEF fire AND gef COLD gloves to break out in case of weird elemental invasions i'd consider yours to have that all in one item though as a secondary item 😄 but like, for me personally getting rid of my gloves is a non starter as they're attuned + set bonus w/ my armor

sonic dagger
#

They are MK coup de grace 🤣

grim wadi
#

you could make dial-a-flare a combat flourish though now maybe 😄

hybrid barn
#

some UCS Flare Gloves clarity
-just with non-UCS gloves, they still bestow flares to held weapons, but the held weapon must be used directly in the attack. using UCS commands does not bestow flares to held brawling weapons

-if the gloves have an inherent flare and your hands are empty, Ambients will choose randomly between the inherent flare and any available hand flare that's set and enabled. a held weapon will have priority. for example, if Unlinked is unlocked and both hands are set and on, it'll choose randomly between the inherent flare, right hand, and left hand, or any available combination therein.

Their inherent flare may be set/changed to any unlocked flare for unarmed combat.

RUB Set and change the inherent flare (Fire).

foggy scaffold
hybrid barn
#

no shield stuff this run. Two-Handed requires a melee attack. hurl doesn't count

void quarry
#

so, if for whatever reason you swing a runestaff you can trigger both hands, but I assume spellcast is only right hand?

winged dagger
#

so not bows?

foggy scaffold
#

so the weapons don't need the flare(catb) slot open for gloves to work anymore ?

astral swift
#

That makes it tempting to swap weapons around and have my bard use a lance again.

sonic dagger
#

There is just a separate ability for two handed to add an off-hand flare

foggy scaffold
#

how he getting 2 different types of flares?

#

so the gloves need inherent(catb) flares ?

sonic dagger
#

There's an existing unlock from the original debut called Unlinked:

Unlinked no Both hands can be set simultaneously and independently.

foggy scaffold
#

oh so the right and left hand could be set to different type of flares?

worn dust
#

Being able to add this to existing ucs gloves would be the bees knees.

hybrid barn
#

not this run, but potentially next year

torpid parcel
#

Sweet. My two Flare Gloves characters happen to be the exact ones using two-handed weapons!

hybrid barn
#

Flare Gloves Teaser #4

  AS: +394 vs DS: +258 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +2 = +164
   ... and hit for 16 points of damage!
   Stomach shot lands with a hollow *thump*.
You feel drained.

 ** Your obskruul falchion emits a searing bolt of lightning! **
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Light shock to left arm.  That stings!
Roundtime: 4 sec.```
hybrid barn
fickle zealot
#

hmmm so obskruul has impact flares but it's flaring lightning (but what are the details?!)

hexed tapir
#

Oh boy

grim wadi
#

You feel drained

sonic dagger
#

Sure looks like it

modest lodge
#

So we don't need to remove existing flares.

grim wadi
#

spirit is for suckers

sonic dagger
# grim wadi spirit is for suckers

The drained message is the same for all of the flares

You swing an aishan-set ebon throwing axe at a savage fork-tongued wendigo!
  AS: +649 vs DS: +392 with AvD: +36 + d100 roll: +77 = +370
   ... and hit for 109 points of damage!
   Knocked back several feet by blow to abdomen.
You feel drained.

 ** Your ebon throwing axe emits a searing bolt of lightning! **
   ... 15 points of damage!
   Heavy shock to chest illuminates ribcage.  Cool!
You feel drained.

  ** A vicious torrent of crackling lightning surges from an aishan-set ebon throwing axe and strikes a savage fork-tongued wendigo! **
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Heavy spark to back.  Bet that hurts.
   ... 15 points of damage!
   Arcing strand of electricity jolts across a savage fork-tongued wendigo's back.  Pretty.
stone totem
#

There’s a “!” When it’s spirit drain usually

tawdry moat
#

Very nice. Curious on the specifics on making it overwrite vs not. Could it be feasible to swap on a per target basis for those of us with cat B's that don't work on undead

grim wadi
#

oh i actually never noticed that if it's on the normal flares from these lol. Carry on.

civic mauve
#

overwrites or adds...

main spade
#

the drained is taking your stamina when they fire

winged dagger
#

I'd probably wait until Naiken confirms it overwrites CatB, since that is a big change from the previous iteration ignore me

sonic dagger
#

I'd say that much is pretty obvious from the example. The question is whether or not it's a new unlock or just a new feature for existing gloves

winged dagger
#

Oh -- just seeing it now haha ignore me I was touching grass ignore me

sonic dagger
#

I was just mowing my lawn and a stick impaled my toe. Serves me right I guess 😆

fickle zealot
next veldt
#

Just a random musing - if GEF flares don't block script flares I wonder if we'd be able to dabble the fluff script off existing GEF to make room for another script in the future

#

Not the best candidate for a 250k BS service but just a thought

worn dust
#

So the gloves flares can be used with items that have natural flares in cat B?

hybrid barn
#

Flare Gloves - August 2024

Both UCS and non-UCS gloves will be offered. The main difference with the UCS version is it has an ability to switch its inherent flare to any unlocked flare (except Acuity and Mana).

New Unlocks
+5 Acuity booster (+50 max)
+1 Dispel booster (+3 max)
+1 Mana booster (+5 max)

New Addons
Two-Handed - Empty offhand has a 50% chance of flaring after a two-handed melee flare.)
Flare Override - Allows use with weapons that possess an inherent flare (+5 mana in addition to normal stamina cost).

New Verbs
Toggle GEF
Toggle Two-Handed
Toggle Flare Override
(UCS) Set/clear inherent flare

HESS will offer a service for converting your non-UCS Flare Gloves to UCS.

(Costs of new shop items and HESS service to be announced/provided later.)

foggy scaffold
#

how come the dispel isn't +5 max since hess allows for +5 dispel

hybrid barn
#

just be thankful it's +3 and not +1

foggy scaffold
#

if i have two-handed add on and flare override, does that mean my two hander could use the death flares on it plus glove flare? or does both flares have to be from the glove?

main spade
#

My understanding of the clip, is if override was on, it wouldn't flare the death flares and use whatever the glove was set to, if it was off it would flare the death flares

foggy scaffold
#

that would be nice or maybe if i just get the ucs with inherent flares and buy the two-handed & flare override so i could get the death flares from the two handed and be able to use the two handed ability so my ucs glove could flare too

hybrid barn
#

it's an override, not a stack

#

if you have Unlinked, you could disable the hand that's holding the weapon with the inherent flare you want to still go off

#

sorry. read that too fast

#

Two-Handed is a gloves-level toggle. if you want Flare Override on a THW, it's both hands or none

lilac badger
#

Flare Override seems like a nice acknowledgement for those of us that really wanted to spend lots of BS on these gloves and unlocks, but already had a Cat B on our weapon. That said, the 5 mana penalty feels a bit harsh. For squares, that could result in nervous system injury? For pures, just seems a bit punitive (given that we'll be spending loads of money on these to begin with, and extra for the Override). My two cents. Gloves seem really cool otherwise

foggy scaffold
#

so there is no way to have use inherent flare of the 2 hander and have the 2 handed add on ability?

lilac badger
hybrid barn
#

no. you can't mix inherent and gloves

lilac badger
hybrid barn
#

no. it's right hand and left hand

#

the first flare is the right hand flaring through the weapon. the second flare is Two-Handed (empty offhand)

#

(Two-Handed requires Unlinked)

lilac badger
#

That was what I thought yakushi was asking, might have misunderstand their question. How to get both flares

hybrid barn
#

i think he wants the first flare to be inherent and the Two-Handed empty offhand to be the gloves

foggy scaffold
#

yea i want to inherent flare of my existing weapon and was hoping to get the 2 addon ability as well

hybrid barn
#

there is no inherent flare through the gloves. the gloves either give the held weapon a flare or override the inherent flare

lilac badger
#

Oh, so in your Trident example, both the fire and disintigration were coming from the gloves? Neither of those was on the Trident to begin with?

foggy scaffold
next veldt
#

+5 mana in addition to normal stamina cost
taking a bro-moment and turning it into a "bruh" moment

modern scroll
#

I guess they really don’t want people to buy these 😂

lilac badger
#

Maybe a suggestion could be that if you purchase the unlock on the gloves for the same flare you already have as Cat B, you can negate the 5 mana penalty. I.e. if I have Acuity already, and buy Acuity for the gloves, then no mana penalty (regardless of which flare is active). Although I'm sure the suggestion of paying twice for a flare will draw some skepticism 🤣

hexed tapir
#

Will these not flare if you don’t have enough stamina/mana to support the flare?

fickle zealot
#

So we buy flare gloves, then buy the flare we want...and have to pay 10-15 mana per minute so we don't have pay to remove the flare on the weapon that we already bought? 😬

zinc tartan
#

Naiken, if you have a new flourish on a weapon (let’s say FA) and you have these gloves with flare override, what will happen with the FA? Will it apply to the glove flares? Or will the glove override the FA?

#

I guess a second, similar question: can you put flourishes on the gloves as well?

sonic dagger
#

Cripes people. Naiken turns the entire flare industry upside down, builds in accommodations to handle what has been requested (flare overrides), adds cool bonus features for THW users... and still the only comments are "can I use it in this way to break the game" and "but I want free flare switching for all my existing items!! QQ".

This is why we can't have nice things.

#

If it was in fact a "add X flare to any weapon in the game as needed with no penalty" they would be 500k BS off the shelf.

next veldt
#

I mean if "make the flare gloves hostile towards your preexisting flaring item" or "make flare gloves undesirable to people with catB flare weapons" was a core idea to the design then the extra mana drain makes sense. Otherwise I just don't get it. You're trading catB for catB

sonic dagger
#

It's adding situational flexibility. Similar to using flaring arrows with a flaring bow. Have sweet magma flares on your weapon, but are about to fight something immune? Swap to dispel flares! Otherwise I think it's pretty well assumed that your existing ability slot flare is your preferred flare anyway, otherwise you wouldn't have invested in it.

Flare switching weapons that predate these gloves are already a script - the reason that those have been traditionally less popular is that they take both the ability and script slots. So in effect, Flare Gloves are providing OTS script combining - an offering that sold at the whalebarrow for how many million BS?

#

Anyway, done ranting about entitlement. Clearly I don't understand the expectations. I personally think the updates are super neat, they add a huge amount of flexibility to existing projects that people have heavily invested in without the need to start from scratch, albeit at a cost. The mana cost might seem steep out the gate for some, but there's no reason you can't invest into harness power/mana control to effectively trivialize it (mana isn't a resource, remember those conversations?).

The only reason I'm not jumping all over these on my main yet is my aforementioned conflict with gloves that I've already invested in. Still hopeful for the potential of future non-hand implementations

next veldt
#

I don't think it's entitlement to say "why would you add a disencentive to a $80(or in my case $230+ since I want gef and maybe a couple others) purchase just because your already $XXX($XXXX in my case) item has a conflicting property?" It's just an odd choice if you want them to sell.

ocean plaza
#

My terror flares cost 100k event currency. New gloves are cool but not eating that cost and 5 mana per swing will eat your mana fast.

I'd pay 5 mana for double flares tho, but not to override.

sonic dagger
#

It's not per swing, it's per flare

lilac badger
# sonic dagger It's adding situational flexibility. Similar to using flaring arrows with a flar...

I think this is a good point, that if you need to ‘once in awhile’ ditch your currently installed preferred flare because the situation calls for it, then these gloves (and penalty) make sense. But, that turns these gloves into a niche item, which is fine. I think some of us that are commenting were hoping to have these as mainstream items (to justify the cost) so we could have fun switching around flares.

worn dust
#

Is it 5 mana per swing regardless of flares, or does it cost mana only when the flare goes off?

next veldt
#

It's per flare. But that's in addition to the existing 5 stam per flare. For the builds that are most incentivized towards flares that ends up averaging 43ish mana+stamina per minute of combat

sonic dagger
#

The override doesn't make sense if you're intending to use it as your primary flare. If that's the actual desire, then obviously the move is to remove the flare from your weapon.

lilac badger
sonic dagger
#

Removing the flares is going to be cheaper than the override. But even if it isn't, idk why that would be a presumed benefit. No other item gets free property remove just because. If you wanted to add the GEF script to your weapon, but had the wrong flares on it - you have to pay for the dabbler.

worn dust
#

I could see keeping a flare on your main weapon then activating gloves if you move hunting grounds. It's probably more of a niche set up though

#

It's truly great for metals with inherent flares, like obskruul or coraesine. I'm curious, how would this new system work with something like a defender weapon?

zinc tartan
#

I’m excited to see if this works with FA on the main weapon. Being able to swap my weapon firewheel flares for 3x dispel situationally, would be neat. Plus, I’m finishing each hunt right now with 80% mana in the tank, so this feels just about ideal use case for my ranger.

Also, the UCS version means I can actually use this now, since I needed UCS in order to Sthieve while holding longbow.

sonic dagger
main spade
zinc tartan
#

Oh! Thanks! Could be.

But this was when FA was a subscript. I imagine it will work the same way as a combat flourish, but I guess it could be different.

main spade
#

combat flourishes should be functionally the exact same as the subscript versions, just using the new game system I think

#

the fact Naiken specifically called out flare affinity working before, makes me feel it's intended to work with the gloves, so even if it didn't initially they'd probably fix it as that would be a bug if it wasn't

hybrid barn
#

Flare Affinity should work if it's a script on the weapon. i'm not sure yet about as a Flourish

hybrid barn
#

keep in mind that you can't remove the flare on some weapons when the flare is innate to its material, but Flare Override will still work

hybrid barn
modern scroll
# hybrid barn sold over 100 just in Prime in February

I’m sure. I bought one of them. But I was lucky enough that these gloves were released at the same time I was going to add cat b to by sigil staff and I had the choice instead to buy these gloves. I just feel bad for all the people that didn’t have that choice because they already added the flares before. If I had added the flares before, I would not have bought these gloves. Nor would I now with the added cost to override plus the mana cost.

hybrid barn
#

they won't fit everyone, and that's okay

#

a lot of people wanted an override option

#

mana is a renewable resource

zinc tartan
#

I don’t think that makes sense Amn. It’s an added functionality. And it’s a functionality that may be exceptionally useful for some of us. I have flares on my weapon I have no intention of stripping off. This gives me the added ability to utilize different functionality.

#

Naiken, maybe I missed this, but with the UCS functionality, if the gloves are being used UCS and they trigger flares, do they still have the stamina cost? Or are they just plain category B for that purpose? So, can a low level monk with low stamina use these effectively, for example?

hybrid barn
#

if using them as UCS, they'll act as UCS gloves. the script doesn't do anything for unarmed combat

sonic dagger
zinc tartan
#

Ok, I think I understand. So, to clarify, if you have fire flares selected on the gloves, and you use them UCS, you won’t get fire flares because that lives in the script? You would have to add fire flares (category B) to the gloves, to get them to flare?

sonic dagger
#

I believe you explicitly set the inherent flare on the UCS gloves, and they will flare as such:
#1206814117906612316 message

zinc tartan
#

Oh, perfect. You can set the inherent flare.

hybrid barn
#

yep. the UCS version allows you to set/clear its inherent flare from any of the unlocked flares (except Acuity and Mana)

lilac badger
#

Can a script flare, like KO, also be added to the UCS gloves?

sonic dagger
#

They are already scripted, so no

hybrid barn
#

should be able to if the flaring script supports subscripting. and possibly Flourishes

sonic dagger
#

KO does neither yet, but Nyxus did bring it up as a potential candidate for future Flourish review

hybrid barn
#

i imagine Flourishes will work since they're handled differently

#

more a matter of if/when a specific script is supported

glass quiver
#

when you say "inherent" flare - are you just saying, any catb flare?

sonic dagger
#

For UCS, inherent means the one that will flare when you PUNCH/JAB/GRAPPLE. Because normally the gloves impart their flare to whatever you're holding, and since you're not holding anything there needs to be a mechanism to choose

glass quiver
#

sorry - im talking specifically about the functionality of overriding an "inherent" weapon flare

sonic dagger
#

Got it, sorry. Yeah, ability slot / catB

glass quiver
#

so i can use these with my temporal weapon to have ANY flare and GEF? o.O

sonic dagger
#

It replaces, not adds to. IDK how temporal weapons flare - but if you turn on the override you could instead have the gloves flare GEF for 5 mana/10 stamina per flare

glass quiver
#

yea im betting its 50/50 if it works with temporal - the temporal flares take catb slot but come from a catd script so

sonic dagger
#

Yeah, sounds like a very sketchy potential interaction

glass quiver
#

yea, but i gotta ask ya know 😛

hybrid barn
#

weapon script has no impact

#

i don't see why it wouldn't work with temporal

sonic dagger
#

Some weapon scripts modify the ability slot (I believe this is how rotating flare weapons work, or ironwright). IDK if it'd be a race condition or something. At least as far as us lowly non-devs have visibility into, anyway 😄

glass quiver
#

wanna try it Naiken? hit me up tonight 😛

hybrid barn
#

it shouldn't conflict. the gloves bestow/override the flare in the exact moment the weapon is used in the attack

unreal tree
#

Welp I know what I'm buying for sure. Temporal weapon with dispel 3 gloves will be great.

glass quiver
#

yes, if i can make my temporal dispel flare - oooooooo doggy

winged dagger
#

don't get excited! They just raised the prices now :p

glass quiver
#

=p

fickle zealot
# sonic dagger Cripes people. Naiken turns the entire flare industry upside down, builds in acc...

I don't really understand this:

  1. "can I use it in this way to break the game" - the original gloves already provided "broken" flare flexibility (at a steep BS cost). The only thing I'm complaining about is that the override option has a significant added penalty that feels unnecessary...and only if we don't want to pay to remove the flares that we already paid for. So it's not like we can't already "break the game" with these gloves...and we can achieve the penalty-free functionality by simply paying to trash our previous investment.
  2. "but I want free flare switching for all my existing items" - how did it become free? The gloves aren't cheap when you factor in the cost of adding strong flares. The flares already had a stamina cost. The disappointment is at the added mana cost...not really to gain more functionality...but to just avoid having to spend more BS to do the painful job of removing the flares we already paid for.

I don't think it's entitlement to feel like this is a bit punitive on top of all the other costs.

tawdry moat
#

I would prefer a cost to toggle on/off the over ride personally. An additional per flare cost on top of the existing per flare cost does seem a bit much.

winged dagger
#

Sometimes you gotta make a choice and live with it 🤷

sonic dagger
#

The are absolutely cheap, if you make the proper comparisons. As I exampled somewhere above, the closest similarity I can come up with is one of the various flavors of rotating flare scripts (rotating flare, ironwright, realm flares). Now, to apply the potential benefits of one of those with another weapon script, lets say animal - the only path before these gloves would be to do an ultra rare custom script combine, like those offered at the whalebarrow for 5 million bloodscrip. I'm not suggesting that this would be a sensible pick for that service. But the point remains that these gloves provide infinitely more flexibility than any pre-existing flare switching script (they are typically limited to 3 flares, and or subject to things you can control like realm flares) - add the ability to double up scripts via GEF unlock, and are compatible with any project you decide to undertake in the future.

"can I use it in this way to break the game"
This comment refers to the expectation that the override would be in addition to existing flares, i.e. allowing death flares + GEF in the ability slot. lol?

but to just avoid having to spend more BS to do the painful job of removing the flares we already paid for.
So, if the complaint is "I don't want to spend 5k BS to remove my flare" then I have no sympathy. If the goal is to replace your primary flare, then these gloves aren't the correct path to do that.
can I use it in this way to break the game"
This comment refers to the expectation that the override would be in addition to existing flares, i.e. allowing death flares + GEF in the ability slot.
not really to gain more functionality
Whaaa? The override unlock can make it so that there's no target for which you have a deficiency. You have terror flares, but need to kill undead? Turn on your glove override and blast away! You have magma flares, but you're fighting something immune to fire? Answers that too!

tawdry moat
#

Not the end of the world! Just the choice of if it's worth using for me or not! As stated, they're not meant for everyone.

sonic dagger
#

And finally, mana is one of the easiest resources to tackle. Harness power, mana control, mana regen, mana sharing amongst group members, etc. There's a reason that Naijin asserted that "mana isn't a resource" - it's very plentiful, if you need it. My bard can run GEF gloves full time with tonis and not run out of stamina (for which he has no minimal +5 regen and only 2x PF pool), and that's a smaller pool with more contention in most cases

tawdry moat
#

Mana isn't a resource because you can pay simu more money to have mana batteries!

grim wadi
#

People got really mad about that statement because they knew it was true. Which made it extra neat.

tawdry moat
#

But it is absolutely a resource for the solo player.

sonic dagger
#

Even 50 flares a hunt (which would be absurd, especially for a caster with reduced runestaff flare rates) is less than 1x harness power mana capacity

grim wadi
#

your face is less than 1x harner power mana capacity

tawdry moat
#

Don't worry guys, you only have to use half your mana capacity! Oh wait, pures get 3x.

fickle zealot
# sonic dagger The are absolutely cheap, if you make the proper comparisons. As I exampled some...

100% agree about not expecting to get death + GEF - I'm talking just about overriding existing flares (replacing them) - I hear you on that point.
So, if the complaint is "I don't want to spend 5k BS to remove my flare" then I have no sympathy. If the goal is to replace your primary flare, then these gloves aren't the correct path to do that.
It's not about the 5k BS as much as it's about trashing the flares that were already paid for. Unless we have a new meta where everyone has these gloves and prefers high end items with empty flare slots, you're losing value on your item.
Whaaa? The override unlock can make it so that there's no target for which you have a deficiency. You have terror flares, but need to kill undead? Turn on your glove override and blast away! You have magma flares, but you're fighting something immune to fire? Answers that too!
That's not the point though - these gloves already exist and if you remove your flares from your weapon(s) you get exactly that functionality. The mana cost seems to be just to penalize you for not removing your flares...either way you get the exact same functionality.

tepid oak
#

Here's my question, does the flare disable function reduce service difficulty XD?

tawdry moat
#

It inserts itself at the perfect moment during combat, so nope

tepid oak
#

I mean, I'll still use this as a relic user which means I have a massive excess in mana but yeah I can see this function not being too desirable for those it'd help the most.

tawdry moat
#

Sounds like a good idea for a new Grand Auction item. Crafter's gloves, reduces items difficulty by X 1 for each day since last used.

tepid oak
#

GOD PLEASE YES. Naiken become the grand-reaching glove guy.

winged dagger
#

that sort of exists already I think, well items that boost your skill for services only

modern scroll
#

Aren’t those single use?

sonic dagger
#

That's not the point though - these gloves already exist and if you remove your flares from your weapon(s) you get exactly that functionality. The mana cost seems to be just to penalize you for not removing your flares...either way you get the exact same functionality.
Not all flares can be removed. Not all flares are supported within the glove ecosystem. So there are plenty of examples where the ability to override provides very different value.

grim wadi
#

there are potions that are single use for resource skill. I think they're refering to the crafters monocles/tomes that are basically just beefy resource-specific enhancives

winged dagger
#

yeah those ^

sonic dagger
#

If you pumped a bunch of BS for dispel flares, then sure - there is a slightly more difficult decision. Eat the loss, or pay some upkeep. Doesn't seem unreasonable to me though.

tepid oak
#

I really just wanna do 20x dispel on my claidh. Mindwrack is still vastly superior to anything the gloves could override atm.

fickle zealot
hybrid barn
#

i couldn't care less if you remove or don't remove an inherent flare from your weapon. people asked for an override ability, so i worked on getting one approved. nothing is done to punish people

#

it's baffling that the concept of punishment is even out there

sonic dagger
#

Nah. Choices are good. Every time a new script is released at DR, we make similar difficult decisions. Abandon the project, pivot, something else. It's an evolving game of itemization, tough choices are necessary.

tepid oak
#

I'm thankful they went with mana over stamina. I wouldn't have used em period if they did haha

winged dagger
#

Naiken pretty much addressed every complaint from the February DR discussion on these gloves, so clearly it means you can handle a larger workload this time around 😉

modern scroll
#

But it’s mana on top of the existing stamina cost isn’t it?

fickle zealot
# hybrid barn i couldn't care less if you remove or don't remove an inherent flare from your w...

I don't think your intention was to punish (and you have given us an awesome/flexible item and I 1000% appreciate your efforts!) - but I do think the result is punitive. Kaetel is 100% right about being able to replace inherent flares that aren't removable though so I would totally change my position to what I said about about making the mana cost only for replacing inherent flares. Otherwise it's just a penalty for not paying to trash something you already paid for just to get the same functionality as you'd get if you had an empty flare slot.

tawdry moat
#

Indeed. If you're over-riding

hybrid barn
#

it's a really odd way of thinking about it

sonic dagger
#

It's not punative, it's a hard choice.

lilac badger
#

I'm thinking about my KS monk that has 8 mana, and 90kbs into Dispel on his gloves. The override wouldn't be useable due to mana constraint, and removing my 90kbs of dispel, only to add them back onto the gloves (because I do want dispel option!), feels like a difficult decision to make. If I was restarting gloves, I would definitely do it with these.

tawdry moat
#

Does mental acuity allow you to use stamina instead of mana? 😂

hybrid barn
#

i had zero thought about you removing flares from your weapons

fickle zealot
#

sorry but you'd have to explain what's the rationale for adding the mana cost? There is no added functionality unless you're overriding inherent flares that you would never be able to remove/replace without this new feature.

tepid oak
#

Naiken, does the flare override option also allow us to benefit from the extra addons? I.E Ambients ect. ^^?

hybrid barn
#

of course

#

perhaps your'e mistaking game balance with punishment, for some reason

fickle zealot
#

it's only game balance if you gain functionality, right?

hybrid barn
#

the gloves use stamina to give a flareless weapon a flare. if the weapon has its own flare already, why would it have the same cost?

modern scroll
#

I love the gloves. But I was lucky in that they came out before I added flares to my staff. Now I have the option to cheaply switch to any flare the gloves support. I think that’s awesome. I just feel bad for the people that added their cat b flare to the weapon and now they don’t have the same easy choice I have.

tepid oak
#

Eh temporal owners will love these.

winged dagger
#

okay but they have cat b flares and have been benefitting from them, you dont need to feel bad for anyone

hybrid barn
#

if you don't like Flare Override or don't want to remove your weapon's flare, just don't unlock Flare Override

#

you want something extra for the same cost. have you met GS?

tepid oak
#

Its also the first bit of THW support we've gotten in literal years. Another question, does the THW proc work even if its not overriding a already flared weapon?

modern scroll
#

But then you can’t use gloves at all with your existing weapon. Which is why I said some people won’t buy it while otherwise they would have.

fickle zealot
#

what's the mechanical difference between these two options other than the 5 mana cost (outside of the inherent flares that can't be removed example)?

  1. remove your cat b flares and gain the benefit of the gloves
  2. keep your cat b flares and gain the benefit of the gloves
grim wadi
#

You have an option for stamina free, mana free flares if you do the second one.

hybrid barn
#

my goal isn't to get every single player to buy a pair. i thought it was a cool idea, and here we are. people in February asked for a bunch of new things, and this is what i was able to get through

modern scroll
#

If that’s what you could get approved we appreciate it

hybrid barn
#

the original concept was never meant to work with weapons that have their own flares. just think of Flare Override as a bonus for the people who can use it

next veldt
#

But you already paid for free, mana free flares when you had them added to your item

grim wadi
#

Looks like you're all set then.

winged dagger
#

Naiken is doing some of the most exciting things in a long time, let him cook

foggy scaffold
fickle zealot
#

guys stop it - you can be appreciative of development efforts and still offer feedback and disagree with some decisions - acting like these are mutually exclusive is silly

hybrid barn
#

acting like things are a punishment is silly

modern scroll
#

So when can we have flare affinity? Hehe

tawdry moat
#

Good point, we also have to give up a script slot for the gloves ...

sonic dagger
#

He already confirmed Flare Affinity is compatible with flares granted by the gloves, and FA is available in HESS as of last DR. So the answer is now!

hybrid barn
#

yes. Flare Affinity as a script on the weapon should work

modern scroll
#

Oh cool.

fickle zealot
# hybrid barn acting like things are a punishment is silly

I think you're hanging on the word punishment too literally instead of as a way to describe a cost to something that doesn't provide a mechanical benefit? I'm sorry if the way I described it is upsetting or anything - again I really appreciate your efforts.

tepid oak
#

** Your left centaur hide gauntlet releases a shimmering beam of disintegration! **
... 12 points of damage!
Flesh removed, forming a long gash across abdomen!
Roundtime: 4 sec. -I would like to see more of this kind of support

grim wadi
#

If you want the actual answer the gloves probably never should have shipped in a way that some characters were only spending a resource they had no opportunity cost at all for (casters and stamina). Casters comaplining the gloves aren't 100% free real estate now are just having to make the same choice semis and squares did with the item 6 months ago.

hybrid barn
#

what are you saying doesn't provide a mechanical benefit?

fickle zealot
tawdry moat
#

It seems it does provide a mechanical benefit, otherwise why are you wanting to over ride your existing flare?

modern scroll
#

Does flare affinity work with acuity?

next veldt
#

Your intent doesn't matter lol, that's what it boils down to. If we choose to use flare gloves and NOT pay to throw something that we paid for in the garbage(AND HAVE TO PAY FOR THE PRIVILEGE) then we are subjected to a mechanical disadvantage that is not there if we remove the flares. That results in being punished for keeping the flare. That shouldn't hurt your feelings, that's the objective reality of what you have proposed

hybrid barn
#

right. that's where i get hung up

grim wadi
hybrid barn
#

do people think GMs create items with how you spend your bloodscrip in mind?

foggy scaffold
#

absolutely

lilac badger
#

I've gotten confused. We can still use gloves with a weapon with an inherant flare, WITHOUT the flare override?

winged dagger
sonic dagger
hybrid barn
#

the mana cost for Flare Override isn't a GOTCHA. it's the cost of the ability. not a punishment. not passive aggression because i (for some reason) would ever care about your willingness to remove a flare from a weapon

sonic dagger
winged dagger
fickle zealot
next veldt
sonic dagger
#

The difference here is that you have the choice for both, which is unprecedented (barring extremely rare and expensive scenarios)

tawdry moat
#

I'd say the PM and the Corporate people care, but the GM's I'd say do what they enjoy.

hybrid barn
#

in general, yes

#

and we tend to make items that we want to see in-game and use ourselves

next veldt
#

Double edged sword there

hybrid barn
#

if every item was perfect for everyone, this would be a very boring game

fickle zealot
astral swift
#

this is an odd argument.. am I understanding correctly that adding a feature that has an additional cost = Punishment vs not having the feature available at all? or is the complaint that it's using Mana instead of Stamina or that it's not free?

hybrid barn
#

as i understand it, the concern is that Flare Override has an additional cost without an additional benefit, which i think is incorrect

#

it completely circumvents a permanent property of a weapon, and in some cases, a property that can't be removed by the Dabbler

fickle zealot
astral swift
#

I dunno, before you didn't have it at all.. now you have the option. it went through approvals and had to have some balance added to it i.e. extra cost for the extra benefit. Can consider it an in-character surcharge for the additional effort it takes to override it. 🤷‍♀️

sonic dagger
#

How is this choice any different than if you wanted to change the flares you put on your weapon to something else? Except that with this choice, you get to double down on all the other dozen benefits that FlareGloves provide.

hybrid barn
#

it doesn't seem fair to be selective in that way. the ability exists because people asked for it

sonic dagger
#

And if you don't want to change your primary flare on your weapon, why are you using FlareGloves in the first place?

hybrid barn
#

the scenario in which a player doesn't want to spend bloodscrip with the Dabbler was nowhere near something i considered

#

i don't think most GMs think that way, though i can only speak for myself

next veldt
#

Is the override going to be a paid unlock or an OTS feature?

hybrid barn
#

it's an unlock like all the other stuff

astral swift
#

It'll be interesting to see the cost of the unlock vs the cost of the removal. Wouldn't surprise me if the unlock costs more.

sonic dagger
#

GS is all about sunk costs, idk why this is surprising to anyone.

fickle zealot
sonic dagger
#

GS items are like used cars, and we've driven them all off the lot.

hybrid barn
#

sure. that makes sense, but it's entirely separate from a new item script ability

#

i can understand the frustration, but don't project it entirely on Flare Gloves

#

i can have Flare Override consume 10 stamina if you don't have the 5 mana to cover it. would that help?

fickle zealot
#

not really - if you don't have 5 mana the hunt is over anyways

hybrid barn
#

oh. everyone converted to a pure 😄

sonic dagger
#

Make the baseline flares cost mana for pures

hybrid barn
#

i wasn't able to get that through

fickle zealot
#

The only answer is to just bite the bullet and delete the flares on my weapons and accept the sunk cost, as Kaetel side. I just don't think that should be necessary since it won't provide a mechanical advantage to not have to do that. 🤷‍♂️

hybrid barn
#

you expect new item abilities to consider what you've done in the past?

drifting goblet
#

But that also would have been the case had you choosen to switch to any other Cat B flares as well.

winged dagger
#

or... just dont buy the gloves

hybrid barn
#

i still don't understand why you think there's no mechanical advantage. if you didn't think there was an advantage, why are you so concerned about Flare Override?

torpid parcel
# sonic dagger And if you don't want to change your primary flare on your weapon, why are you u...

This. I don't think I understand what's going on in this thread.

(Though, to be fair, that was already true even before the current discussion because people don't seem to understand that the UCS initialism needs an article in front of it when it's being used as a noun. Reading it literally hurts my head sometimes, as if someone kept talking about living in USA and visiting UK and wanting to see NBA game live.)

Like, okay, yes, it saves you some gear difficulty, but the cost of re-adding outweighs the cost of what you'd need to work on your item even if you were invoking suffusion and the like.

fickle zealot
hybrid barn
#

what was the question?

fickle zealot
winged dagger
#

@fickle zealot what is the weapon that, if there was no mana cost, you would buy the flare gloves and use them, but now because of the 5 mana cost you would just remove the flare?

hybrid barn
#

i did answer that

#

it completely circumvents a permanent property of a weapon, and in some cases, a property that can't be removed by the Dabbler

fickle zealot
hybrid barn
#

how is it not a mechanical advantage to have the combat system use a different flare than what your weapon is stuck with

modern scroll
# drifting goblet But that also would have been the case had you choosen to switch to any other Ca...

Best way I can explain it is by giving 2 scenarios. 1) person has a weapon with no existing cat b. They can buy the gloves and any flares they want and freely switch between them with no need to buy an additional unlock or the additional mana cost. 2) person has a cat b they already payed for on their weapon. They’d like to switch to other flares using the gloves. But compared to 1, they now need to pay an Additional unlock fee plus a mana cost. And in this example the flare in their weapon isn’t an inherent flare that can’t be removed 😉

hybrid barn
#

and any flare your gloves have unlocked

winged dagger
#

I really want to know the actual weapon and flares you are thinking of

fickle zealot
drifting goblet
modern scroll
#

In both my scenarios the end resulting power is the same. But #2 costs more.

sonic dagger
#

FlareGloves are the cheapest path to get this functionality, bar none. It’s not even close

fickle zealot
drifting goblet
#

Because one has additional versatility. If all you wanted was permanently swap one flare for another with no option to change more cheaply, that isn't this item.

tawdry moat
#

Could the glove take into consideration something along the lines of the weapon has cat b, the glove has the same cat b, therefore the glove negates the additional cost when using a different cat b?

modern scroll
hybrid barn
tawdry moat
#

Cool, just a thought. Wouldn't help me at all as my weapon has terror

sonic dagger
#

I don’t think it is. You’ve had the opportunity to make use of your ability flares up and to this point. Someone who hasn’t yet investing in flares has had nothing

torpid parcel
#

I suppose I don't understand the problem. I don't think a single year goes by without multiple major releases that make me think I would have done things differently if I'd known when I came back to the game in 2016 what options would be available in 2024. Flare Gloves are among them, and so be it.

fickle zealot
hybrid barn
#

you don't know what optoins there were

sonic dagger
#

So the crossroads is whether or not the new functionality is worth the sunk cost (of the functionality you been utilizing since the investment), or if the upkeep is more palatable

torpid parcel
# fickle zealot but in this case they had the option to not make us have a sunk cost and they ta...

Okay... and, meanwhile, the gemstones panel revealed that there'll be a path to get up to -5% spell hindrance, which would have changed numerous armor decisions for me that I'd have to pay 150k bloodscrip per armor to undo now.

I'm okay with that, and by "that" I don't mean that I'll pay it, but that I won't pay it and I can live with not being the most absolutely optimized possible because I'll still be far better off than I was.

modern scroll
#

That’s not at all the same because there’s no way around a change like that.

hybrid barn
#

as many probably know, we take item properties very seriously. we rarely allow veering from them. Flare Gloves allow you to get flares on many weapons without adding difficulty for other services. now Flare Override lets you entirely circumvent a static flare property. that was never going to not have some extra cost

fickle zealot
#

I need to get on with my evening but I appreciate the discussion and I'll just take the L here and accept the reality we've been given. Not sure I'll actually delete the flares on my weapon for these gloves...we'll see. Again I appreciate the dev effort and the chance to provide feedback and share my frustration with the decision.

winged dagger
#

Naiken I appreciate your work in meeting many of the requests folks made of these gloves in February, and for engaging in discussion and standing behind your choices

marsh radish
#

Gloves are awesome.

scarlet crest
# winged dagger Sometimes you gotta make a choice and live with it 🤷

... or you get gloves with an option to ocasionally override the choice you alread made, so you can have your original choice, new choice, and an option to toggle between them while considering or deferring the non-choice of removing the first choice.
Seems like choices and choices for choices is what these gloves are all about, including the choice to defer a different choice of a permanent flare on a weapon.

glass quiver
#

Whats the cost for override? I missed it

zinc tartan
#

I don't think we have costs on anything for this DR run yet.

tawdry moat
#

It is 5 mana per flare, in addition to the 5 or 10 stamina You mean price probably heh.

glass quiver
#

No i meant the resource actually, ty!

tepid oak
#

Imma happy with the 20x dispel flaring claidh that these gloves will provide me o_o

hushed vault
#

i'm sure this was asked before... but does Flare Affinity impact flare gloves?

zinc tartan
hushed vault
#

sweet, thanks Leff

modern scroll
#

can you add flare affinity to a weapon to use with flares on gloves if the weapon doesn't have flares itself though? 😂 😭

unreal tree
#

Folks are just being cheap and not wanting to spend yet more money. That's all it boils down to. Bottom line though, there will always be something NEW and SHINY that requires you to spend more money and make you regret previous purchase decisions etc etc. That's Gemstone. That's the price of getting new GMs with new ideas that come up with ways to provide exactly what players wanted but with conditions that dev dictates.

It sucks that you already spent money on a cat b flare but flare gloves does not eliminate the years and decade or more use that some people already got out of that cat b flare.

hushed vault
#

But wait… off Naiken’s comment. FA is also being added as a flourish?

modern scroll
hushed vault
next veldt
# unreal tree Folks are just being cheap and not wanting to spend yet more money. That's all ...

Tell me you don't understand the grievance without telling me.

It's cheap to delete flares from your item. It's not about money, it's about saying "hey guess what, we got rid of the major issue that would keep you from buying these. we could have just done that but we also decided to make it penalize you in combat to use it on top of the additional cost of stamina and the cost to add the override"

unreal tree
#

That's the price of getting new GMs with new ideas that come up with ways to provide exactly what players wanted but with conditions that dev dictates.

I know exactly what you wanted but games have checks and balances. You don't have to like the checks and balances but they do need to exist. Just because you will spend cash doesn't negate that.

tepid oak
#

-Happy noises in 20x dispel claidh-

modern scroll
#

how do you get 20x dispel claidh?

tepid oak
#

Overriding the innate flare on my temporal claidh at +100 enchant with dispel from the non-UAC flare gloves with +3 dispel unlocked.

winged dagger
#

🥱

modern scroll
#

well that's an interesting interaction if it does work that way lol

hybrid barn
tawdry moat
#

Temporal weapons are so last year

tepid oak
#

But temporal claidhs, they're forever.

hybrid barn
#

Maybe not overriding inherent flares kept you from buying in Feb, but now it's available. There is no punishment or penalty. It's an additional ability and has an additional game balance cost. This is how a lot of things work. I don't think it could be offered otherwise

next veldt
#

I think "this item will not work if you have a catB flare" pretty easily qualifies as "a major issue with the item that would keep you from buying them"

fickle zealot
#

but if you delete your cat B flares on your weapon there's no additional game balance cost and you get practically the same thing (and who knows how much BS you're going to save by not paying for the unlock too) - I don't understand why we can't just address that fact instead of dancing around it

Edit: again, granted the whole discussion is different if we're talking about overriding innate material flares that you can't delete or replace any other way

hybrid barn
#

It doesn't, because I didn't originally intend for it to

#

It's a major issue to you, sure

winged dagger
#

Major issue implies that it was a bug or mistake on the part of the creator, which pretty easily is incorrect flap.

unreal tree
#

I'll be buying the override unlock. It's great. Thank you.

tepid oak
#

This was originally a niche and neat product for a specific sort of player, now its been greatly expanded beyond the original specifications. Why fight for more at this point?

fickle zealot
hybrid barn
#

If people keep misunderstanding, then use different words

next veldt
#

The Major Feature That Would Prevent You From Using This Item, howboudah

zinc tartan
#

I'm just going to say -- I don't understand this. It literally makes no sense to me.

hybrid barn
#

The cost isn't driven by people removing flares from weapons, or not

tawdry moat
#

Issues were brought up, the issues were answered, the answer wasn't what was wanted, so here we are in a vicious cycle

hybrid barn
#

The cost is based on what it allows you to do

#

How you get there isn't a factor

#

If that's a factor in your cost analysis, that's your right

#

If you don't see a value, then you can not unlock it

#

And all is well

#

Or kill stuff faster than you run out of resources!

tawdry moat
#

It makes perfect sense from an RP perspective. It should take more "power" to "override" another flare that is triggering. That "power" is in the form of "mana cost". It's some pretty big gymnastics to make it be a punishment for spending money previously.

next veldt
#

This is a game where "death flares" exist Nisugi. Plz.

modern scroll
#

completely understand your point but don't say "just don't unlock it". If people in that situation don't unlock it, they have no reason to buy the gloves in the first place. Which is what I've been sayin from the start. This does in fact cause less sales.

fickle zealot
#

lotta gymnastics in this conversation for sure lol

tawdry moat
winged dagger
#

Then it causes less sales

fickle zealot
winged dagger
#

I didnt miss it, I wasnt replying to you - thanks for the heads up! 😄

hybrid barn
#

It simply is a new ability. One of many the gloves provide. I'm not sure what those of you against it want me to do

sonic dagger
#

I want you to ignore the naysayers and keep making awesome stuff.

unreal tree
#

Ditto

zinc tartan
#

Alright -- I'm irritated -- then I'm just going to be done. Naiken, thank you for listening to input from last DR, and finding a way forward to help make your vision available to us. I am one who didn't buy this last go around, because I have flares I didn't want to strip, but was very interested in a way to override them. Keep being awesome.

hybrid barn
#

It does boil down to just not unlocking it. If it isn't for you, don't unlock it. What else is there

modern scroll
tawdry moat
#

There is nothing else. No reason to defend any further. This is way more engagement that we deserved.

next veldt
unreal tree
#

Yeah, but Naiken said no.
And ya'll just kept going.

hybrid barn
#

It will not be permitted without something additional

modern scroll
#

but it already is, because people can just remove the cat b flare. This is what I don't understand. Mechanically its exactly the same thing.

hybrid barn
#

I want people to be happy. I know not everyone will be. I'm not here trying to ruin your experience

tawdry moat
#

Changing from one damage type to another type is clearly a mechanical advantage.

hybrid barn
#

It's a difference in how you're looking at it, as I've mentioned before

fickle zealot
unreal tree
#

If its the same thing then why ya'll fighting so hard for it? Lol

The cost of removing the flares will definitely be cheaper than the cost of unlocking the override.

hybrid barn
#

The cost is based on what it allows you to do (circumvent). It's not based on how you get to the point of using it (such as stripping flares)

tawdry moat
#

Yes because we all know that 1 + 1 = 2 just like 0 + 1 = 2 ...

modern scroll
sonic dagger
#

That’s how GS itemization works

unreal tree
#

So you can switch flares at will, which is an advantage.

modern scroll
#

yes, it is an advantage, that's the point of the gloves... and why they cost stamina

next veldt
tawdry moat
unreal tree
#

Good lord this is like a politics conversation.

fickle zealot
# sonic dagger That’s how GS itemization works

that doesn't mean it's a good design - especially when you explicitly create a system that allows you to avoid that terrible feeling of deleting something you paid for to spend money to put something else back on in its place - the core of this issue is that the design decisions are such that the best choice is almost certainly to just delete your cat B flares and take the L. It doesn't seem hard to understand why that's a frustrating design decision...so sure you can say "that's just GS" but come on...that doesn't make it beyond reproach.

unreal tree
fickle zealot
unreal tree
modern scroll
tawdry moat
#

"Guy's you don't understand. I already have a cat b flare so I'm not gaining any mechanical advantage. Why don't you accept this and concede to my point?" Is what I keep hearing

hybrid barn
#

Alright, let's cool this off

unreal tree
modern scroll
fickle zealot
hybrid barn
#

Stop

hushed vault
#

Yeah.... feels like the temperature could be brought down a little.
Cool Item.
Resourceful workaround to expand the audience.
Also understandable that some could be frustrated. Not everything is for everyone.
GM's - great job and Keep making cool things.
Players - keep on giving feedback. It's how all these cool things keep evolving.

lilac badger
#

#1206814117906612316 message

If you don't do the override unlock, would the gloves only work with Unlinked unlock and a THW? Just trying to make sure I understand this point that was made a few times.

hybrid barn
#

oh. the "what else is there" still pertains to Flare Override. it was either you unlock it or you don't. all unlocks are independent, other than Two-Handed requiring Unlinked

#

the gloves are meant to be a la carte

lilac badger
#

Right, but if you don't unlock Flare Override, and you have an inherent weapon flare, is there still a function for the gloves? Sorry for dragging this out😅 😭

hybrid barn
#

yep! the gloves were released in February and Flare Override didn't exist yet

#

well, no i guess. the inherent flare will block the gloves from bestowing a flare to the weapon. that's the point of Flare Override

lilac badger
#

Got it, that's what I was trying to get clarification on. Thanks

winged dagger
#

I know the answer is no, but still, for posterity have to ask: can you override the anti-magic properties of veil iron / kroderine 😅

scarlet crest
#

Unsure why you would want to override the dispel flares of kroderine... but I am also curious if this would add ability flares to veil iron. Some of these abilities aren't considered.... 'magic'.

winged dagger
#

I'm not asking whether I should, just whether I could

hexed tapir
#

You can add flares to veil iron, so I imagine this would work the same

weary agate
#

You can add a script flare to kroderiine but not a cat B flare.

#

But what the gloves will supersede is a mystery to me at this level

hybrid barn
#

the only restriction is weapons that resist magic, which was true back in February as well

#

so typically no kroderine or veil iron

barren latch
#

Kinda been keeping up, but may have missed a detail or two- the override specifically; overrides innnate flares and the example was utilizing obskruul… is this override specifically for native/naturally occurring flares (ie rhimar, drakar, etc) or does it override flares added after the fact like dispel, disruption, etc?

sonic dagger
#

Any ability slot flares

zinc tartan
#

So, not to kick things up, but where I see it being helpful is especially for folks with dispel -- where dispel may run up against issues with significant level differentials, and this gives an additional option or two (dispel, firewheel, terror flares specifically).

sonic dagger
#

Very generally speaking, my guidance would be that if you have a flare on your weapon that is replaceable by the gloves (like dispel), long term it probably makes the most sense to remove it - understanding that may be cost prohibitive initially. Override definitely has a strong use case for unique/innate flares.

zinc tartan
#

I can see that making sense.

astral swift
#

I have terror flares and I'd be tempted to override them, but I wouldn't remove them. The override is worth it for me if I wanted to spend the BS

barren latch
#

Hmmm... that is something to consider there. As well as making gear difficulty easier in the long run too for removals.

Yeah, I'd say override is definitely valuable for terror and firewheel (not in the glove system) but I see the value long term in removing an added flare if need be.

And I'm guessing the UCS version will be able to be ensorcelled and such? Spell thieve, etc for arching purposes

sonic dagger
#

Yeah, terror's a great example of one where you'd want to override when facing undead or something

hybrid barn
#

i wouldn't feel right removing a flare that the gloves don't currently support/offer in the shop

astral swift
#

In my case, most of my characters don't use a lot of mana while hunting so it'd be a cost vs benefit trade off where I'd probably lean towards keeping the flare on the weapon. The only character I'm playing right now that uses a lot of mana while hunting is my Bard and he doesn't have flares on his lance. I'd probably remove a basic flare, but more rare ones like Terror and Dispel end up being too costly to remove and add it to the glove. (If Terror was even offered. It was 100k whatever currency at EG)

barren latch
zinc tartan
main spade
#

Oh, I had a question does the 2h unlock work on anything being gripped and swung with two hands like polearms, or just thw?

wanton path
#

A suggestion that comes to mind for next year would be adding stamina/mana and/or regen enhancives as an add on. Similiar in style to forest armor where it’s always on would be my preference. But animal armor style activatable could work also. Orrrr for every 3 flares you unlock you get +1 each regen. Thanks for designing these and the conversations around them. What a neat item.

hybrid barn
winged dagger
#

Bows? I forget if you said it "needs to be involved in the attack" or "needs to be melee" answered thanks

grim wadi
#

melee was stated explicitly.

Two-Handed - Empty offhand has a 50% chance of flaring after a two-handed melee flare.)```
hushed vault
# sonic dagger Very generally speaking, my guidance would be that if you have a flare on your w...

Unless you'd like the opportunity to have flares without any additional cost (to use)....

As sweet as all the gloves are, i think everyone's kind of forgetting that traditional Cat B flares have no cost for use associated with them. So unless there's a superbly mechanically beneficial flare you're getting from the gloves. Cat B is probably still better.

Maybe i'm way off on my thought process though?

modern scroll
sonic dagger
# hushed vault Unless you'd like the opportunity to have flares without any additional cost (to...

Well, the answer extends beyond that. I would not use the gloves if the plan was to remove dispel flares and just get them via gloves. In that case there's not a lot of value in the gloves unless you really like the POUND ability or something (I happen to enjoy it, but probably not at the cost of removing flares).

What the gloves do provide is the opportunity to change flares as needed, situationally. So Tsalinx's example was mana + acuity, which I think is a great setup for adapting to needs. Another could be adding a backup flare type when your primary is ineffectual. To top it off, the gloves provide the unique benefit of allowing super charged ability slot flares via GEF that also works in conjunction with any script flares you have on the weapon.

So yes, if you've already got a solid generalized flare like dispel I think the choice is much more difficult - personally I'd tend towards not using gloves for that scenario. But if you've got inherent/unique flares that have immunities, gloves provide an awesome path to supplement

hexed tapir
#

Im excited for the unlock; my main weapon has 3x dispel but that flare is lacking a bit in HW. Will need to 1x HP but I'll get there eventually

sonic dagger
#

Oh, also - as of yet the gloves are currently the only way to get sweet sweet magma flares 😄

winged dagger
#

When I was levelling Duffield I would switch to earth flares when I hunted illoke and dispel flares for pretty much everything else.. and now that he is capped I just handed them off to an alt because Id rather just have the stamina.. my semis get a lot of mileage (though surprisingly I did use them a bunch for berserking, where I would actually WANT to burn my stamina down to zero faster)

hexed tapir
#

what is the base stamina usage again? Not seeing it on the wiki

sonic dagger
#

[5/10//15](#1206814117906612316 message)

#

It's based on rarity, but I can't find the exact breakdown of what flares apply to what rarity in this context

hybrid barn
#

with the exception of Steam, the GEF/common flares are 5. everything else is 10. no flares that cost 15 have been released for Flare Gloves

sonic dagger
#

Unless I'm mistaken, GEF is additive with the common flare it is greater-ing (5+5)

hybrid barn
#

yes. a GEF flare will cost 10 (15 for Steam)

hushed vault
lilac badger
#

I’m really interested in next season when UCS boots come out (right Naiken?!? 🤣), that allow us to keep our already-decked out gloves, but have the boots override the gloves when needed. (Is it THE UCS boots @torpid parcel 🤓?)

torpid parcel
#

(No, it's not "the UCS boots" because "UCS" here is being used as an adjective and not an object. It's like the difference between "US citizens" and "citizens of the US.")

hybrid barn
#

i can certainly arrange swapping your hands and feet

normal vortex
#

Would the override unlock be compatible with Twisted Weapons? My gut says no...

sonic dagger
#

Should be, the ability slot flare isn't special on twisted weapons

normal vortex
#

I guess it wouldn't effect the T3 twisted flare at all, right? It's not like I could fake my rhimar twisted frost falchion is actually an acid one?

sonic dagger
#

Right, the script flare component would still be all from the Twisted script as is

cinder heron
#

Im sure this has been answered but does a monks mind over body reduce the flare cost?

nova loom
#

I do hope we see boots next run! Hard for me to justify moving away from my enhancive gloves.

Which gives me another idea. You should sell these bad boys off the shelf in two tiers. One as currently contemplated. And another, more expensive, with some enhancives on ‘em. Could come up with some pre set options off the shelf

hybrid barn
#

i'm not sure about a boots concept. you want boots to affect your hands holding weapons?

hybrid barn
nova loom
#

Sure, it’s all magic anyway, why not boots?

hybrid barn
#

because the gloves have runes and metal traces on them that use your hands as a conduit

#

don't hold your breath for something worn on the feet doing what Flare Gloves do

#

i am mulling around something worn on the arm/wrist though

nova loom
#

That would also be excellent

lilac badger
nova loom
#

In general all of the single slot inventory spots can be tricky. So the flexibility to move to arms, or the wrist (or feet?!) would be really helpful for folks I’m sure

lilac badger
#

Having UCS boots with the ability to change their inherant flares (like the current GLoves option) would be neat on it's own, but then if you add a LInk and Flare Override to control the glove flares...amazing

normal vortex
#

Okay, but what if the gloves granted "boot" like abilities but only via a very silly looking walk on hands maneuver?

hallow drum
#

Er, I'm wildly out of my depth here, but....non-UCS gloves, unlinked and paired with a T4 sigil staff.....still a good choice? Or ever a good choice? <nearly capped pure wizard with no special gear at all, getting ready to go ham at Duskruin for the first time in twenty+ years of play>

void quarry
#

its an extra flare, if that's what you're asking
it's what I use

modern scroll
tepid oak
#

I forget, how does this interact with an already existing GEF script?

void quarry
#

I did unlinked for the Pound verb and only sorta regret it (unlinking that is.. I fully regret Pound <.<)

but depending on how much the unlock costs for the two-handed weapon double flare, I may get that.. and occasionalyl swing my runestaff just to trigger the flares

modern scroll
#

That seems like a pretty big waste of round time for a caster?

void quarry
#

I'm known for doing weird things, and if the unlock is cheap enough, I'll do it for giggles. It's not completely useless though, particularly with dispel flares

hybrid barn
scarlet crest
void quarry
#

yes, I needed the anchoring

hybrid barn
#

Oh. I should mention that I was told I can reduce the POUND cooldown to 3min

hybrid barn
void quarry
hybrid barn
#

It's 1d5

scarlet crest
# void quarry yes, I needed the anchoring

(Serious now after humor attempt). Yeah, I thought you were another paladin who noticed that. I am still in referral queue after 3+ weeks in assist queue on that issue

hybrid barn
#

Sure, but now (later this week) you can do it every 3min, and it doesn't cost stamina. Unlinked can hit each target twice

#

And no backlash like coraesine

#

So there

sonic dagger
#

I love pound. I use it on cooldown.


A savage fork-tongued wendigo is in the way!
  SMR SvD: +69 + Bonus: +27 + o100 roll: +186 == +282
   ... 30 points of damage!
   Electric blast goes right to the heart!  Fibrillation can be fun.
Rage flickers in the wendigo's eyes as it collapses, bloody maw still working hungrily until the last hint of life goes out of its form.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.```

```You slam your black suede half-gloves together, their rolaren traces searing with absinthe light.  Both half-gloves emit a searing bolt of lightning!

A shining winged disir is in the way!
  SMR SvD: +27 + Bonus: +19 + o100 roll: +79 == +125
   ... 15 points of damage!
   Hard jolt knocks the winged disir back on her heels.
   The winged disir is stunned!
   ... 20 points of damage!
   Painfully bright jolt to head leaves ears glowing.

A shining winged disir is in the way!
  SMR SvD: +28 + Bonus: +60 + o100 roll: +74 == +162
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Heavy spark to abdomen.  Bet that hurts.
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Light shock to right arm.  That stings!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.```
modern scroll
#

is showing the SMR SvD just done on certain kinds of SMR attacks or is it some setting you can turn on? All my SMR attacks/casts don't show that

sonic dagger
#

I've got a script on the repo called ;fsmr that formats it like that

#

In an attempt to have it read a bit more like AS/DS and other combat resolutions. SvD is just derived from the endroll - roll - bonus to simulate one's SMR "skill"

scarlet crest
#

What, you don't do the math as the numbers scroll by?

void quarry
#

I do <.<

sonic dagger
#

I have the numbers of 6 characters flying by, all maximizing their screen scroll with flares - too many SMR resolutions to calculate per second 😆

modern scroll
scarlet crest
#

Seriously, though, it looks like a good script. I should use it. I normally skim the numbers as they go by to ensure I'm connecting, and if not: a glance to figure out why.

lilac badger
#

If we’re in Guarded, does Pound still work just as well? No SmR penalty for defensive stance?

sonic dagger
#

Dunno. I would guess yes, but considering it’s soft RT it’s pretty easy to just macro a stance change to use it in offensive quick

lilac badger
#

Anyone verified whether Pound damage travels the 1117 link?

void quarry
#

I can test it right now.. gimmie a few minutes

#

LOL.. boy does it ever!

three screens worth of scroll

lilac badger
void quarry
#

gloves are unlinked, dispel in right, lightning in left
lv 41 empath, giants and titans are 38 and 36 I think.. I was in offensive stance

it looks like I rolled a 5 on the 1d5

lilac badger
# void quarry

I'm impressed you have the lore needed to link that many consistently. Unless that was just a really lucky link. Amazing

#

And theoretically one could do double pound with unlink with GEF on both, right?

tawny pivot
bright pumice
sonic dagger
#

Never!

unreal tree
sonic dagger
#

If only empaths could volley 😆

hybrid barn
lilac badger
#

So just regular lightning (for example), not GEF lightning on pound?

lilac badger
hybrid barn
#

right. GEF only works with held weapons

void quarry
#

no, there were a few misses in there, but I was mostly lucky with the links.. I only have about 15 telepathy

and empaths don't get Volley, but they do get Fire Spirit, which I often get scrolltastic results with, especially since I have a ton of summoning lore (which I'll have to change since my original design for that 'path was based on pre-disabler review thinking, but I'm not gonna fixskill or anything until bloodjewels come out)

worn dust
#

Naiken, I think I already asked, but don't recall if you answered: what are the chances that this script will be able to be added to our existing ucs gloves in the future?

hybrid barn
#

i don't know about the chances. i will ask about it for next run though

worn dust
#

Would love to know what to transmute this run. Thanks!

hexed tapir
#

The convert to UCS option: is that the HESS cert, or will there be something specific to these gloves available?

hybrid barn
#

HESS

hexed tapir
#

nice thanks

modest lodge
#

Will GEF be available to purchase on the gloves in the shop, or that HESS too?

torpid parcel
#

That unlock is in the shop.

modest lodge
#

Awesome. Wasn't looking forward to that much HESS.

scarlet crest
#

If I'm starting fresh: is there anything that the non-UCS gloves can do that the UCS ones cannot for a held weapon? I saw note that UCS cannot have mana flare (and maybe acuity) as their inherent, but I'm trying to see if there's a scenario where I would regret making my single flare glove purchase UCS version.

hybrid barn
#

No. The UCS version technically does more (set inherent flare)

normal vortex
#

Could you just add catb flares to the ucs version, instead of having the gloves handle it?

hybrid barn
#

Probably, but that won't unlock the flare on the gloves, so you would risk losing it

#

Or force you to unlock it later

normal vortex
#

So could probably add the flares, but then if you unlocked the POUND ability you would lose the flare?

#

I have access to a magma flare token, and I'm trying to sort out if it would make sense to add them to the gloves to save the higher mana cost of that particular one

hybrid barn
#

Pound doesn't use the inherent flare

#

Purely the gloves

tawdry moat
#

The glove could override it's own flare for the additional 5 mana in this scenario though?

hybrid barn
#

There's nothing to override. Pound is driven by what the hands are set to

tawdry moat
#

Sure, I'm not talking about pound myself. I just mean in the scenario you get the ucs version of flare gloves, then you add a cat b flare that isn't available to flare gloves like say terror for the sake of the hypothetical. Would the glove be able to also unlock the override and override the terror flare on itself?

hybrid barn
#

The UCS version's inherent flare is purely for using it unarmed

#

The gloves only bestow flares to held weapons

tawdry moat
#

held items, there's the answer, thank you

#

devil's advocate, how are you using the gloves if not by holding them!? \s

hybrid barn
#

Flare Override will no longer have a mana cost. it will instead have a 25% failure rate, which means no flare on that attack. what say you?

tawny pivot
#

Naiken is kind. Naiken is wise. Naiken is still going to upset some people somehow.

strong stream
#

I think the immediate question would be does that mean a ~20% melee flare rate would then be ~15% right off the bat?

hybrid barn
#

i am not the person to ask about mathing, but i think it would typically be one more attack to flare

sonic dagger
#

I don't have a lot of stake in this fight yet because I don't have a need for the override, but I think if I had a preference I would stick with mana (because IMO counteracting the mana cost is fairly straightforward)

strong stream
#

I think the guarantee of the flare is more important than some small mana amount

hybrid barn
#

i was concerned about KS characters

#

and some of the "extra cost" pushback

strong stream
#

poor KS ppl always being excluded from the best items, spells. and societies!

sonic dagger
#

TBH I think the only reason the concern was raised is because pures would have a direct impact on their primary resource, in the same way that squares have for the baseline version of the gloves. Before this choice, it was a non-choice for pures because they aren't competing for stamina.

I would expect that most squares who are considering the override option don't see mana as the limiting factor (again, because it isn't their primary resource). With the very specific exception of possibly kroderine armor/shield users who can't get mana - but I expect those are not very numerous

strong stream
#

The difference is casters get a nice size stamina pool through PF and constitution but swingers get barely any mana unless they train in expensive HP

sonic dagger
strong stream
#

true but its not "free" (My GoS warrior has 30 HP ranks)

sonic dagger
modern scroll
#

It’s fine. You can just get mana flares on the gloves to counteract the mana cost of the flares 😂

strong stream
#

seems like Naiken is worried about KS swingers to the detriment of every other non-KS player. Its a tough call but KS made their choice!

sonic dagger
#

KS can get mana just fine.

strong stream
#

Then I guess I'm not sure what the issue is with mana

#

Oh I think maybe its because KS swingers all get Krod gear that means you get zero mana

hybrid barn
#

is roughly one extra swing to get the flare that much worse than keeping your mana and/or not feeling so compelled to strip flares from weapons and/or training in HP?

hexed tapir
#

If the override fails, does the existing flare still have a chance to fire?

hybrid barn
#

no

strong stream
#

Its a tough thing to answer broadly, everyone's situation is different

hybrid barn
#

but theoretically the next attack would be eligible for the flare that failed. it would just be another roll

hexed tapir
#

OK that makes sense, because you wouldn't have the chance for both flares to fire off on the same attack anyways

hybrid barn
#

if the inherent flare happens on a failed override, you'd lose the flare chance. assuming you want the override to happen, i'd rather it most likely happen on the next attack than reset my flare chance

sonic dagger
hybrid barn
#

but there must be a reason you're overriding your weapon's flare

#

the mana would really rack up if you're hunting awhile

sonic dagger
# hybrid barn but there must be a reason you're overriding your weapon's flare

Right, and I think that's where my input has diminished value. I wouldn't override, because I presume if I had something worth overriding (death flares, terror flares) then I wouldn't be using gloves in the first place. Or if I was, it'd be specifically for a given hunt (maybe I got a bounty in a zone where my flares don't work), and not all the time.

strong stream
#

Override would probably be if you had a sick pair of 3x dispel gloves and you wanted to give them to your poor alt who only have a 5x fire flaring weapon

sonic dagger
#

I don't think override makes sense as a primary hunting mode in almost any case. Either you should remove your flares if you want the utility of the gloves, or have a specific use case for the override.

hexed tapir
#

I have a 3x dispel weapon, and will be using the override in HW (for magma).

sonic dagger
#

At any rate, I think it's really cool that you've brought an alternative consideration to the table Naiken. I'm curious how those that raised the initial concerns will feel

@fickle zealot #1206814117906612316 message

lilac badger
#

I think the flare fail could be a good option. As an example, I'll keep my Acuity on my runestaff because I need it when I go to Ascension areas, but if I'm just screwing around in OTF it would be fun to launch some magma at the Ithzir, and not having it drain my mana would be nice.

I think a possible solution here is to stick with Naiken's original design for override, but then have another Unlock that removes the mana drain and adds in the flare penalty, so everyone can choose what works best for them.

OR!!!! How about a paid Unlock that just removes the mana drain WITHOUT adding in a flare penalty. You can even make it expensive.

next veldt
#

I'm not crazy about the no-flare option. It's better than 5 mana, and good for KS people, so thanks for being willing to make adjustments!

I'd prefer it proc the held item's flare instead. It's still an outcome that you don't want, so you are(avoiding the words penalty or punishment here) making a sacrifice for the override. For example you would want to turn off lightning flares for mucky rooms to avoid shocking yourself, if the fail happens you get zapped. At a bare minimum you get "not the flare you wanted"

I agree with Grymli, too. I think that making it expensive(Assuming it's not already!) is a solution that meets almost everyone's needs

hybrid barn
#

overriding a flare isn't something money can offset. there has to be a mechanical/combat compromise

tawdry moat
#

I could get behind that aspect. No mana cost, 25% chance for override to fail giving you the weapons cat b flare instead. A touch of chaos is always fun.

sonic dagger
lilac badger
#

Maybe a better use case example would be someone that has 5x Dispel on their weapon, and doesn't want to downgrade to 3x

#

Removing a valuable flare from a weapon also has the implication of a lower resale cost, so there's that to take into consideration also. I think my point is that it's great there's an override option, and grateful that Naiken is evaluating options on it.

verbal slate
hybrid barn
#

yes. i just got approval to make it a selectable option, so you'll be able to toggle which one you want

hybrid barn
#

Flare Gloves Update Summary
The POUND cooldown has dropped from 10min to 3min.

PROD          Toggle Greater Flares.
RUB           Set and change the inherent flare (UCS only).
TOUCH         Toggle Flare Override*.

* Options:    ON (100% success and +5 mana cost)
              ON (75% success and no mana cost)
              OFF```

[Right to Flare Arms]
UCS FlareGloves      2,500 bloodscrip

__Addons__
Two-Handed             25,000 bloodscrip
[Empty offhand has a 50% chance of flaring after a two-handed melee flare.]

Flare Override          15,000 bloodscrip
[Allows use with weapons that possess an inherent flare.]

__Flare Boosters__
Acuity (+5, max 50)  40,000 bloodscrip
Dispel (+1, max 3)      30,000 bloodscrip
Mana   (+1, max 5)     15,000 bloodscrip


__HESS__
Service to convert non-UCS Flare Gloves to UCS    20,000 bloodscrip
hybrid barn
hexed tapir
#

oh so it's a new HESS cert, not the 5k BS convert non-UCS to UCS?

modern scroll
#

why does +5 acuity cost more than the initial +30? 😭

hybrid barn
sonic dagger
scarlet crest
scarlet crest
scarlet crest
zinc tartan
#

Popped in to see the prices and updated options for the flare override - very nice Naiken.

odd bobcat
#

Not sure if this has been asked.. but if you use flare gloves to change the Cat B flare on a weapon with Flare affinity, will the Flare Affinity still apply it's benefits to the new flare the glove imbues in it's place?

zinc tartan
odd bobcat
scarlet crest
#

Seems like things have already changed, but I liked the balance of stamina and mana usage, and for pures/squares/semis.
I am also not sure that all the comments about Kroderine Soul characters and kroderine armaments are accurate. They are not the same thing, and users of one may not use another. (My warrior uses a kroderine shield and wears a kroderine helmet, so I do have some experience here. I am not kroderine soul)

hybrid barn
foggy scaffold
#

script add-on for this coming in feb?

hybrid barn
#

possibly. i'll be asking about it. i don't see why not, but i can't promise it

foggy scaffold
#

since u already asking lets shoot for tomorrow instead

lilac badger
#

Can I ask a clarifying question on Acuity? Unless I'm mistaken, for regular runestaff add at Hess, the initial 30kbs certificate adds 6x Acuity, which I believe only equates to +18 CS. Then at Hess, the 40kbs Acuity Boost says it's +5. So I guess my first question is whether the normal Hess 40kbs acuity boost is actually 5 CS, or if it's only 3 CS.

My real question with the gloves, is whether the initial 30kbs Acuity unlock truly gives 30 CS (the Wiki says it's +30, as opposed to 6x, and specifies that this unlock is only for runestaves?), and then if the 40kbs acuity boost unlock gives 5 CS, as opposed to 3 CS.

grim wadi
#

accuity is always 5 AS/3 CS per tier