#[Official] Treasure Improvement Proposals & Suggestions

1 messages · Page 4 of 1

ashen yew
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unironically if you wanted to do this you would do it through introducing a new currency and forcing silvers to be converted to that currency to be used

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this would actually work but be a lot of effort

fair loom
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We definitely need MORE currencies in the game. 🙂

cobalt jetty
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I get why people want a reset, because they're poor, but if we reset and you still only put 15 minutes into the new system, you're still going to be poor and other people are still going to have more.

fair loom
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For clarity - I would not want a reset. Plus you have a lot of systems based on gem values and similar that would need to be reworked.

unkempt swallow
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I generally want to find more stuff. Items are fun. Collectibles are fun. Randomized enhancives are fun. Farming endless silver is boring. Legendary drops are a dream someone who hunts as little as I do will never live. Give me things to get excited about on an everyday basis

cobalt jetty
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You only change the selling at gemshop/furrier. That way you don't have to redo everything. The value of the gems would still maintain, but their selling value is reduced.

ashen yew
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silver deflation only really makes sense in the context of that deflation applying to existing holdings

fair loom
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Agree - otherwise you just made everyone with silver in the bank 10x richer against the future earnings.

cobalt jetty
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I would drain their holdings a different way. High end silver shop. They deserve something for earning that wealth.

ashen yew
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the high end silver shop would contain the new currency, which they would have large holdings of, just, you know, less large

cobalt jetty
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If the reset happened, I would not do a conversion. Nobody gets a head start. They just get rewarded for dominating the current wealth list.

ashen yew
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custom prenames maybe

cobalt jetty
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Custom prenames that don't have to pass QC

But no. SK/MK/Private Property. Something of real value depending on the level of wealth attained. It could partially be based on using previous mania offerings.

willow plaza
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Hahahah... The optics. How do we improve the treasure system and make it more interesting and engaging?
Folks with silvers pouring out of their bank accounts: "stop giving it to anyone except capped loot farmers."

cobalt jetty
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Or they could pretend for optics, to just run a grand auction. With the same results. But it's better, because we cherry coat it for people who can't accept facts.

Everyone would equally be affected in value reductions.

And the person making 1-2m a month now vs the person making 35m a month will be better off in the new proposed system.

ashen yew
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I'm not sure who "folks" are here! I think it's just one folk

willow plaza
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I mean, I don't even really disagree. I just loved the juxtaposition. Shifting away from silver-based loot is something I've very much leaned into with suggestions.

cobalt jetty
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Why not both

ashen yew
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were you referring to me with that phrase? I think if you are trying to call people out you should do so directly

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because I feel fairly irked at the passive aggressiveness present in this thread

willow plaza
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I wasn't calling anyone out. If I do they will know it, and I will @ them

cobalt jetty
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stance aggressive

unkempt chasm
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This is an aside, but apparently the Forgotten Vineyard is so pressured currently that I literally make more underhunting level 42 shan with a level 47 sorcerer than uphunting level 56 shan with the same sorcerer. Goes to what I'm saying about objective difficulty since the Vineyard is most certainly harder due to baseline expectations assuming no more than two outside spells.

fair loom
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Working as intended Leafiara. You are moving around!

ashen yew
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I think there is definitely a tendency on discord to construct weird false ideas about other people for presuming to disagree with you about the things you want from the game. it's a really pernicious and unhealthy approach to community and I think is one of the larger problems with communication that I've observed as Envoy.

unkempt chasm
fair loom
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think I forgot to include my /sarcasm note. 🙂

normal bloom
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A lot of these ideas seem to particularly favor certain aspects of people’s play styles. I noticed someone earlier mention nerfing something into the ground, now that that person specifically isn’t affected by that action anymore. It’s all lovely but affecting the loot system is going to affect everyone. Good bad or otherwise. It’s not going to help the game most likely, loot overhauls never do, usually a case of too little or too late. Or a combination of both.

ashen yew
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incredible

dusky goblet
# unkempt chasm This is an aside, but apparently the Forgotten Vineyard is so pressured currentl...

baseline expectations of whom though? i think it's probably not accurate to say baseline expectations of areas designed 20+ years ago were made thinking players would have an invoker grade spellup. They're specifically a joke with one because in fact, that assumption was not made. So the loot challenge mechanics break down in that regard because they're laughable now.But if there was a world where loot was more influenced by level (just i mean 1 is less than 10 is less than 20 etc.) then i could certainly see putting in bonuses (that ya know, work. unlike ME) for areas that are specifically designed to be harder (really just newer sever areas) on top of that.

unkempt chasm
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Dev would determine what the baseline expectations are supposed to be, but it's definitely fair to point out that spellups mess with a majority of hunting grounds. 🤔

fair loom
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But if there was a world where loot was more influenced by level (just i mean 1 is less than 10 is less than 20 etc.)

This is where I think the gemstone loot system just completely fails in its current state.

unkempt chasm
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I do think the fact that they had to stop people from freezing their level forever via ATP mechanics is wild and indicative of a design flaw.

In fact, they even had to stop people from freezing their level twice since stopping pre-20 would also otherwise be a problem.

normal bloom
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Only for someone with multiple accounts. Otherwise you’d get bored pre 20 and have no service to offer, purely relying on treasure alone.

violet fjord
unkempt chasm
normal bloom
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You can do that now with a 100 million exp character. I guess the 5 minute timer is so people quit talking 👍

cobalt jetty
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lol @ashen yew why did you change it from 60 seconds to 5 minutes

unkempt chasm
dusky goblet
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i've been meaning forever to go on a thyril hunt in the landing but i'm too lazy to get the door open. which just makes me think it's even richer

normal bloom
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Go hunt them in icemule. They’re probably rich but like was stated. No one sticks around for long. You level out and move on to better things. You could have a bot there but unless you’re specifically there to just treasure hunt that is boring. The flip side of that is there will always be someone willing to do just that. Whether they are level 10 or 100. You can’t stop it. Every game has it.

crude hound
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If I was going to do something with the treasure it would be more rewarding to risk more....the most dangerous hunt would be the one to potentially reward the most........we are the exact opposite of that now though.

normal bloom
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The thing to do is make treasure drops similar to experience. Like level is your expectation. Over level is a + under level is a - and have them diminish to nothing at -10 levels. But then you carry that around with you when you’re in an over hunted area that may already have loot pressure because that doesn’t address the problem they have of wanting you to hunt other places

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There is one oddball from eliminating under hunting too. When I came back I had a level 46, 35, 32 character. I went out and died because I didn’t know what I was doing and had no gear to speak of. So I under hunted for a couple weeks until I got the hang of stuff and bought some pawnshop gear I could use to start actually getting experience again. I had a f2p character but they were locked in that room and I couldn’t figure out how to get out for 2 weeks.

ashen yew
normal bloom
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Not to zero though. And I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s broken, or at the very least more heavily influenced by loot pressure, at least in some areas. Based on what I experienced when I was doing that a year ago

unkempt chasm
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I already cringe over many a bounty help night where I see capped characters disabling level 20-60 things and pretty much ensuring that whoever they're helping gets no loot. Having it go to literal zero might kill CHE/MHO mixed level group hunts off for good.

Edit: Well, actually, I guess that it would just send them in the direction of all bandits at worst. But that's already a problem even with things as they are!

buoyant rain
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🤣 I made more on a bandit run than a Moonsedge hunt yesterday. What a sad state.

fair loom
buoyant rain
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Yep. The fun has been sucked out of GS at this point and I have avoided playing GemStone more days than not in the last year.

fair loom
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Just hunt somewhere richer? Moonsedge didn't even exist... a year ago (not sure when it was introduced exactly)?

buoyant rain
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Yeah i logged out of my ascension characters and logged into my level 1 characters and made some money. 👍 best game design evar.

red crystal
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Oddly in all my years while getting something for hunting is nice, getting max coins has never been a primary source of enjoyment or motivation for me playing. At least on a daily basis. In the other hand when I’ve been active and hunting consistently and still can’t afford one basic ots item others are buying by the dozens, fully unlocked and loading into the back of their pet powered carriages then it can start to seem a bit off. 🤷🏻‍♂️. That being said my level 16 empath cleared 1m coins in the bank in a week just hunting normal stuff which outpaced all my higher characters doing vanilla hunting which says something…not sure what but something 🤷🏻‍♂️

cobalt jetty
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What are people buying by the dozens and fully unlocking

hot quarry
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That being said I am kind of over the "spend X time to manually power hunt" phase, silvers are currently worth so little per your valuable time spent.... so I have been having alot of fun testing different hunting grounds for 15 minutes stretches but until I setup bigshot its just not fun long term.

red crystal
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hy·per·bo·le
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

buoyant rain
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Maybe I have been here too long. I grew out of and tired of the old hunting grounds like SoS, OTF, Confluence, and the Rift +5 years ago. It shouldn't be too much to ask to find new, interesting, or rewarding hunting experiences in GemStone, but maybe it is, and maybe that is a me problem that I should strongly consider before my account billing renews again.

hot quarry
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Burnout is a natural thing. For me I probably derive more enjoyment from GS discord banter than normal everyday GS tasks like hunting. It helps that I can have bigshot support my Discord viewing addiction.

cobalt jetty
fair loom
# buoyant rain Yeah i logged out of my ascension characters and logged into my level 1 characte...

There is definitely something odd about Moonsedge. I don't hunt there but I see people routinely complain about the loot there; but on the other hand I have had people tell me the loot isn't that bad from their experience. I can only guess there must be some sort of disparity based on which specific creatures are hunted or maybe somehow tied to hunting style? I don't know the area well enough to have any deeper insights but there does seem to be some additional element at play other than the area just being dirt poor.

buoyant rain
fair loom
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I'm moving on now. Have a great day.

flint wharf
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My personal experience over the last 8 months in Moonsedge.

  • There is only 1 critter with skins. This pulls down the avg loot hunt value quite a bit. (only one data point, but in Zhagen's 3 man hunt in the Pits up above, skins represented ~19% of his total loot. If that much was added to Melivn's test hunts, it would push ME's avg loot to 0.9 devation to HW avg. Still worse, but MUCH closer)
  • The spawn rate is sad. Like really sad. If you're hunting solo, your "Time to find" a critter will be 8-10x your "time to kill", unless it's a grotesque.
  • If you're hunting with a decent size group, the spawn rate improves a little, which makes the hunting & loot more bearable. Even with a group of 5, I consistently find I spend more time walking around trying to find a critter than killing critters. I can't imagine being solo in there with no one else. It would take 20 mins just to find critters to fry.

Do we know, does the castle and the village count as ONE area, or are those separate when it comes to spawning? I wonder if the "area" is just too large and that's what causes spawns to be spread thin?
I personally think if the spawn rates were increased, there would be less complaints about the loot.

kind steeple
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2 skinnable mobs, gems, treasure, boxes, and very solid spawn rate. Hard to compete.

image.png
flint wharf
cobalt jetty
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I'm surprised people like skins so much. It takes abnormal imo training precap and I'd rather have boxes for a chance at enhancives

kind steeple
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Major loot boost, 15 min hunt in that area. Got some boxes but didn't open any. 155k from straight skins, gems, and incidentals. Plat does get tiny treasure bump that tends to impact incidentals such as scrolls, wands, and small statues the most.

Bramblefist removes the items and hands you a note for 58,193 silvers.

The gemcutter takes the mithril mesh pouch, inspects the contents carefully, and removes the gems he is interested in.  He hands it back to you and says, "I don't have that much spare silver, so I will have to give you an Icemule promissory note for it."

The gemcutter removes the gems and hands you an Icemule promissory note for 81,087 silvers.```

139,280 silvers from gems and skins.

Human, no trading modifier from selling, no trading skill at all.  25 influence bonus.
bright zenith
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Day to day Plat loot landscape would be entirely different than prime in any hunting ground, I think

hot quarry
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I assume the ideal situation for anyone not playing 8 hrs per day would be log in after work, bigshot (or manually hunt) for 1-2 hrs while you look at discord, talk to friends in game, or browse the internet. And expect to pull in ~1m silvers of value at cap/ascension.... if you did that every other day you would hit softcap, 15m, and over time have a good hoard of silvers between 6month DR events....
Then there is 8-12hr dudes who just want to max exp and silver

flint wharf
dusky goblet
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Everything is the same according to auchand (2 per character in the area). Dreadteeds have fewer rooms you can find them though (not inside in the castle proper)

#1057019350856519800 message
(Unless he lowered it but I don’t recall that. Ironically that thread is in response to it being too swarmy to deal with lol)

kind steeple
lime hatch
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does it actually "remove the loot pressure though"? loot pressure is relative

crude hound
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I think ME does have pretty bad loot, SoS is better Atoll is better most level 20 hunting grounds are better.....but you do get some loot so some people try to correct the idea that it is a loot death zone

cobalt jetty
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ME was one of the worst zones for me.

kind steeple
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There's a lot of stuff from the saved posts on the treasure system that I certainly don't fully comprehend.

Creatures are created using an existing profile or use an entirely new profile. Creatures impact other creatures using the same profile. This is why Wyrom uses under utilized creature profiles for the arena because the huge amount of kills during duskruin would impact loot from common creature profiles.
#1190341191074594846 message

The term peer group is brought up which I assume is creatures that are the same level or within a level band. Creatues existing within the same peer group or level band affect each other.

Warden```
https://gswiki.play.net/Treasure_system/saved_posts

With creature profiles and peer groups influencing loot is there a third  variable based on the number of actual people visiting each hunting ground?
```This is correct. Hunting ground pressure is relative to one another. We don't define set numbers as being "over-hunted" and "under-hunted". Only if hunting areas within the same level grouping deviate by sufficient margins from one another is one considered "over" or "under" hunted.

Coase****```
https://gswiki.play.net/Treasure_system/saved_posts
frosty gate
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Don’t know how many buckets of popcorn I’ve eaten by now just watching this thread. There’s one thing that I don’t understand I hope someone can illuminate for me to help put this discussion into context - why do people need all this extra silver? At level 52 I want to finish enchanting my weapon but at level 100 playing for years I just assumed everyone has 10x gear. Is it because everyone wants death metal transmutes and a couple private properties? If your silver intake did double what would you spend it on?

frosty gate
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If you play 3hrs a week making 1m an hour, in a year you’d have 156m silver. That’s probably a very low estimate and doesn’t even take into account selling resources. Seems like that’d be enough to buy whatever you want aside from the most extreme items.

kind steeple
unkempt chasm
# frosty gate Don’t know how many buckets of popcorn I’ve eaten by now just watching this thre...

A) Not all people do necessarily need or want extra silver. That's why some people are arguing for the treasure system to go in entirely different directions and possibly even invent new subsystems since some of them feel like silver is too boring or even pointless.

B) For those of us who do like silver, it's because of any number of reasons: it can act as an in to pay events, player services need to be paid for somehow, auctions happen, etc.

C) I doubt that anything other than a tiny minority ever get to 10x anything. That's a huge investment! Roughly 75m just in the potions to go above 10x, then probably looking at another 100m or more to pay the actual wizards. Unless, of course, you have your own wizard. Even if you do, you're looking at 42.75 weeks of resources to make those enchants from +35 to +50 happen.

hot quarry
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What about if all these big items had 3 ways to pay, BS (through simucoins), silvers (through game), and RP Bux (Roleplay events and storyline participation???)

fair loom
# frosty gate Don’t know how many buckets of popcorn I’ve eaten by now just watching this thre...

why do people need all this extra silver?

I've been playing over 30 years but I play 12? 13? different characters on my account. I think... 4? of my characters have a single 10x item. I play a "lot" but I also have a day job so this is just my hobby. I've picked up my silver acquisition over the past 6 months because I've probably put near 100m into player services over the past 9-12 months, still have projects I want worked on, and don't want to be broke by the time I've finished getting all that work done.

I don't make anywhere near 1m an hour. I make 1-2 million over a good part of my weekend. But I hunt for many reasons of which silver is somewhat of a byproduct most of the time. I make most of my silver merchanting vs. hunting.

I also don't sell my resources; my main is a wizard and I have a 5-year backlog on projects I want to complete for my own characters (and my wife's characters).

This year aside, most of my silver earned goes into items from pay events because I don't like throwing that much $$$ into a game. Last year (or so) I was able to purchase Shadarl armor for 80m silver and spent my last year getting it ensorcelled and then enchanting it up to 10x. (80m for the armor + ~20m for the ensorcelling + 65m for the enchanting potions + 52ish weeks of wizard essence that I chose to use instead of sell). That's my end game armor for 1 of my characters who is nearing cap.

I'm not actually arguing for more silver so much as I greatly dislike what loot pressure and armies of characters run by a single player sometime do to the loot in a hunting area. I do move around (some) based on loot but it's still stupid when a capped area starts kicking out bricks, copper keys, and clothing items as the main loot attraction due to loot pressure.

gaunt ridge
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I got my first 10x falchion for 22million 😦 need a gs inflaction calculator!

fair loom
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Woot! Hrmmm... I got my paladin's 10x greatshield for 20 m. Seemed like a lot at the time. 🙂
(it actually was a lot at the time. :p )

inner socket
hollow zephyr
light field
carmine garnet
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Request for a minimum amount for lockpick pool. Someone's hunting OTF and giving 250 silver tips.

bright zenith
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That’s 25000% of the minimum already!

hot quarry
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That reminds me I have to reset my tip amount, it was fun getting my boxes picked instantly with 1,000 flat tip while testing hunting ground loot but no more! Back to the OTF grind....

carmine garnet
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at least tip a living wage! Average Per Hour: 19,193 opposed to my warrior: Average Per Hour: 41,596 opposed to my shattered pure lockpicking rogue: Average Per Hour: 61,660

jaunty gate
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Can't you just reject the boxes that are too cheap?

hot quarry
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Why did the GM who created pool have the minimum be 1 coin, he could have saved all the rogues with 1,000 coin hard coded min.

carmine garnet
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it's bad when even shattered with only 96 characters logged in can give those numbers.

smoky depot
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I like the lack of a minimum tip, but think it should come with the character's name. Social pressure is underused.

unkempt chasm
# jaunty gate Can't you just reject the boxes that are too cheap?

Technically, yes, but the better way is to set the minimum in the same command that asks for the job. If you've already gotten the job and then reject it because you don't like the tip after the fact, that can cut you off from getting more jobs for several minutes.

cobalt jetty
hot quarry
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Although, If I have to tip 1,000 coins I demand service in minutes.... 250 maybe in 10 minutes

unkempt chasm
carmine garnet
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out of 37 boxes, I picked 8. 29 were refused, and from capped areas. That's INSANE.

cobalt jetty
# 
22.  An engraved tanik trunk about half a day ago for 90 silvers.
     It is waiting to be worked on.

23.  A simple maoral chest about half a day ago for 80 silvers.
     It is waiting to be worked on.

24.  A sturdy fel strongbox about half a day ago for 70 silvers.
     It is waiting to be worked on.

25.  An iron-bound modwir strongbox about half a day ago for 60 silvers.
     It is waiting to be worked on.

26.  An enruned tanik chest about half a day ago for 100 silvers.
     It is waiting to be worked on.

27.  An engraved haon coffer about half a day ago for 90 silvers.
     It is waiting to be worked on.

28.  A dented mithril trunk about half a day ago for 80 silvers.
     It is waiting to be worked on.

OTF boxes. Someone will want the easy XP eventually. And if there's a scarab on there, it's +4k tip

carmine garnet
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Congrats on keeping true to who I thought you were. Someone else might pick those, but I'm going hunting.

brave turtle
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I mean it’s probably a percentage based tip? And on poor creatures that’s not very much money. If people want to pay more than is in the box they can just use the town smith. I say this as someone who has had their tip set to 25% since the pool came out

fair loom
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There are still pick-bots out there. When you are a bot you don't care what the tip value is, it's more than 0 with no effort / attention required by the player that runs them (and free experience).

hot quarry
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Atleast alastir varies up the tips, gotta keep the rogues guessing!

cobalt jetty
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People used to pick boxes for free. Now they're demanding high amount tips, instead of just appreciating being tipped. #entitled

violet fjord
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I too wish people would pay me to gain exp

lime hatch
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I always tip a flat 20% and sometimes I cringe a little at the low ones but I'm not going to go back and take them out and resubmit them...and of course there are also many boxes with 1000-3000 tips to average that out.

smoky depot
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Hey folks, this is a hot topic, and it's on the edge of relevant for this thread. But please take the personal attacks out.

carmine garnet
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Huntiing == Exp & loot. Picking == Exp & tips.

hot quarry
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If the tip of any given box is under 5%, rogues should have the ability to steal from said box 1 random item if they have 200 pickpocket ranks....

fair loom
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To be fair - no one is making you pick boxes with low tips. Just do something else if the tips are below what you want to pick them at.

violet fjord
smoky depot
carmine garnet
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I wasn't aware that was even a thing, but I'll be using it now to avoid the people who feel entitled to all of their loot.

hot quarry
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Box pool is like the Amazon of locksmithing.... there used to be many rogues who would do 1-on-1 service with a smile for a liveable wage. (Even give you the scarabs!) Now there are half as many rogues picking boxes for peanuts and "smiling" with robots in warehouse continuing to encroach more and more.

smoky depot
cobalt jetty
smoky depot
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Absolutely. Folks get to decide what they're willing to work for.

#

Me?

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Skipping the forum cooldown is the only Envoy perk. That and the red highlight. And the respect of my peers. Which is basically Tikba.

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I took this one back to a minute. Please don't make me regret it.

dusky goblet
smoky depot
carmine garnet
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I'm sure someone will take you up on that line to cross.

hot quarry
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Time to address the real issues here....... S C A R A B S

cobalt jetty
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Can we make Tikba regret it instead.

smoky depot
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I don't think Tikba does regrets. Back to treasure, folks.

hot quarry
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Its back enough the lootcap taxing my gains, now i got the rogues stealing my Scarab TREASURE... 🪝

cobalt jetty
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Back to treasure (and loot cap?).

Tips from the locksmith pool should add the tipped value towards loot cap, instead of ignoring it. That seems like a loop hole bug.

smoky depot
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Profession service sales should count too. And yet, here we are.

carmine garnet
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They should also count transfer of funds.

hot quarry
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My boxpool tip should be a write off for future lootcap eligible income! I have my receipts!

bright zenith
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It does make sense that tipping a % of the genned loot should reduce that amount from the box spawner and accrue that amount to the box picker

fair loom
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Is this really where we want the dev team spending their time?!?

cobalt jetty
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Yes

carmine garnet
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Fixing loot issues? Yes.

smoky depot
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To making tips and services count towards lootcap? No. Towards treasure generally? Sure!

unkempt chasm
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Trying to make profession service sales count toward loot cap sounds like an MAer's dream and a solo player's nightmare. The MAer could just have the funds go to different characters and then consolidate on the last day of the month. The solo player could sell an S6 for 20m in the first week of the month and then basically be ruined.

carmine garnet
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Cue Joe Exotic meme.

cobalt jetty
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I don't think it was real suggestion, but if it were, lol

smoky depot
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It was at least not something I think they should spend time on, let's leave it there.

cobalt jetty
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It's actually off-topic because it has nothing to do with treasure

unkempt chasm
hot quarry
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what is the point of this thread even?

smoky depot
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For what it's worth, I think a bunch of the pinned items are good ideas.

hot quarry
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But aren't those ideas all like ~3 months old? At this rate we might get 1 service super rare smithy invites spun up and coded by 2026

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All those pinned items seem great but I am scared with how hard it is going to be to pick any given one then have to get it through QC and coded in 2-3 years

unkempt chasm
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Of the 16 pinned ideas, there are 6 I'd potentially be personally interested in ("potentially" because it depends on the exact details), but, honestly, it doesn't really matter what I'm personally interested in since I already like silvers. The design problem is what to do for people who don't like silvers--or, at least, don't find them sufficiently motivating/interesting/etc.

Edit: And in case anyone's wondering, the six I'd possibly like are: "eliminate area hunting pressure in favor of personal hunting pressure/loot cap changes," "allow more flexibility with enhancive drops (Fusion?)", "rare drops from specific creatures/areas/regions," "small enhancive chargers," "temporary buff consumables", and "minor bounty system loot."

But I could also see it ending up the case that almost none of them appeal to me depending on implementation. The only one that I trust would definitely appeal to me is temporary buff consumables since Auchand has nailed that three times in a row with the Hinterwilds, Moonsedge, and the Hive.

smoky depot
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Auchand started to thread to collect ideas and to have a discussion. I don't think it's deeper than that.

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I assume he's interested in doing things. But I don't see a commitment or a timeline until he gives us one.

hot quarry
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That's why I asked what the point of the thread is.... we just spinning our wheels 🤷‍♂️

dusky goblet
hot quarry
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3000 comments and I assume the list pinned hasn't changed in ~3 months (correct me if I am wrong)

ashen yew
dusky goblet
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Some of it is memes.

hot quarry
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The phrase "Shouting into the Wind" perfectly encapsulates this thread

ashen yew
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No, sometimes wind is bracing and pleasant

hot quarry
unkempt chasm
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I love this thread and have been having a good time in it for almost three months!

It's full of creativity, passion, philosophy, theorycrafting, math, game design, game study, and basically everything I enjoy.

hot quarry
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There is definitely a need for better "uncommon" treasure in GS....

Common: Silvers, Gems, Boxes, Skins
Semi-Common: Jewelry, Clothing, Magical Items
Uncommon: Enhancive Jewelry (Once or twice a month for casuals?)

-Rare: ????
---HUGE GAP--

Ultra Rare: GM-made drops (once or twice in a lifetime)

Legendary: (once in a blue moon, 0.01%)

#

What can we add to the uncommon drop system? Based on the pin maybe the WPS service vouchers, temp buffs, memory crystals etc.... do those feel like they are enhancive jewelry frequency or are those more GM-made rare frequency?

#

So I think we are missing more items in that "I find it once per month" and once per quarter/year category of loot
Because to be honest there is a HUGE gap between finding an enhancive jewelry and a GM-made custom item

#

Heck give us the DR arena pity RPA orb system but modified for "days played" (not time), if you logged and hunted for 200 days you as an account should be near finding a "once a year RARE drop"

lethal hull
#

Vouchers that grant immediate alchemy/guild ranks.

Rare fodder

Rare critter drops like disir feathers

Prize wall tokens

#

Lord Montgomery loves the rare blood coins of Whosowatzit land. If you bring him the coins, he will give you an item from his eccentric collection of oddities

lethal hull
#

The exchange that followed this comment by a white named player today (name removed) encapsulates everything this thread exists for. A naively excited player who found a plasma flaring ora lance on a troll gently being let down by veterans who know that no only is it worthless, its never gets any better.

IMG_5809.jpg
hot quarry
#

yeah, its always sad when ppl ask how much their 4x flaring +3 influence handaxe is worth with a loresing of 3,000,000,000 silvers......
That being said it does mean that low end gear is so worthless they could probably pick up nice stuff for peanuts today

smoky depot
flint wharf
hot quarry
#

That and the invoker..... stuff was hard back in the day. There was a reason so few people capped.

#

Even lvl 50s were selling for like 600+ on Ebay back in the day

brave turtle
#

the 90 day promo codes had a bunch of people reactivating trying to sell their 8x fire flaring HCW warblades for like 100m. lot of people got some bad news about their old item values the last month or two heh. even better was the sheer number of people selling fully completed (but no 330) projects with like 1k gear score and... well, 330 kinda ruined your item bud. prohibitively expensive to sanct and who wants something not sancted. (delete gear score)

slow zodiac
#

sure, there was also no gift of lumnis, 2x xp scrolls, xp boosts, AG bounties, or brooches. There are lots of ways to make sizeable xp gains over time.

hot quarry
#

basically you had to be a locksmith and keep grinding those levels

dusky goblet
#

i mean some of that is just.... on a long enough timeline, people were going to cap eventually. if you're "i might do 30k exp a week and play off and on" seems like it takes about 15-25 years to cap

hot quarry
dusky goblet
#

it got placed in the queue after the rest of the stuff from the SOE.

violet fjord
# lethal hull The exchange that followed this comment by a white named player today (name rem...

I don't think that represents a treasure problem nearly so much as population problem. The amount of treasure system drops relative to the active player base that fits the demographic for which said drops would be enticing is vanishingly small. Most players anymore have enough time invested that they've accumulated hand-me-downs for their hand-me-downs. There's nothing mechanically wrong with the weapon, it's a fine starter piece - there just aren't enough people who need it. Combined with the relatively easy access to "high end gear" that was previously considered rare/auction quality gear and it shrinks further. Then you add on top of that the invoker that trivializes content to the point that gear is nearly irrelevant for the first half of the game and you have a pretty perfect storm. But to me that doesn't say "well it's bad treasure," it says we don't have enough fresh blood or need for gear upgrades.

hot quarry
#

There needs to be uses for gear other than 35k, forging system should have ways of "extracting" item characteristics, magics, or power for repurposing. That way finding 100 pieces of crap armor would actually mean something as it could be funneled into building or improving something.
I will say though finding a "cool looking weapon or armor" after a hunt does give me a quick 5-10 second burst of excitement even though I am only going to pawn it. It does add to the immersion.

lethal hull
#

Or maybe the problem is there is nothing interesting in the treasure system. Im not saying its a shame his lance is pawn fodder. Im saying its a shame that its not going to get better down the line

violet fjord
hot quarry
#

If there were NO PAY events what would players eventually end up with at cap? Best would have been like a 7x flaring (boxfound or rare merchant) weapon that had 10 CER from years of WPS?

smoky depot
smoky depot
lethal hull
#

Ffng had it right. Its backburnered behind other stuff atm

hot quarry
#

True, so basically an item that by today's standards is borderline junk/alt fodder.... P2W basically stopped any real treasure dev forever, no incentive

#

The funny thing is even in 2001 the best items were pay 2 win through Black Swan Castle big ticket boxoffice

#

I always wondered where ppl where getting those off the shelf 5x crit padded armors when I was young. I didnt even realize they had pay quests...

crude hound
#

I mean there is a place for 5x flaring veil iron shields. There isn't a market for them though. But there never gonna drop t0 energy shields or t2 sigil staves in the normal feeder.

#

I still think you can do something like BDOs infinite hp potion and make loot interesting......I kiiiiind of see that in charms

#

Where you need 200 pieces of wiggle root from HW and 200 vampire teeth from ME and 200 Luukos feet from SoS to combine into something (in BDOs case an infinite hp potion)......the elephant in the GS room is always MA and scripting though

#

For the record I'm not against either but they trivialize time sinks

unkempt chasm
# violet fjord I don't think that represents a treasure problem nearly so much as population pr...

Nah, it’s just 35k. There’s no world where it gets used, including the world with 50,000 players, because then there would also be a bunch more perfect zorchar lances floating around—and superior zorchar lances too, which would be the real competition that people would sell for like 50k at most. This is also notwithstanding that people can buy better starter weapons with just free giftbox entries and free Simucoins alone.

hot quarry
ashen yew
hot quarry
#

I mean they definitely added most of the semi-frequent weapons/armor/jewelry/enhancives/clothing drops while I was on hiatus. Or at the very least they cranked up the drop rate by 10x. magical items and scrolls were always a thing.
But yes, not alot of mechanical treasure dev in the last 20 years...

cobalt jetty
#

If they did the "mechanical treasure dev" we needed people would lose their minds because it would mean lower loot cap and reduced selling values without all the extra freebies that people are asking for.

Theyre not going to suddenly make poor people who hunt for 15 minutes a day rich.

crude hound
#

Well at least you hope not

#

The solution here is obviously that we go through the portal in the bleaklands to Draenor with its own new currency and new types of gear that make everything before obsolete....I'll see myself out.

crude hound
#

Give us a solo reim rogue like experience with a new currency that if your good and do it enough you can earn big prizes....but to really be good at you need ascension level exp and p2w gear (or you can slowly grind up your gear in the experience)

#

That's really where our p2w model broke down, without an in game method of achievement of the same thing (even if it's path of exile like and not truly something a normal human would do) it removes a big part of the reason you would do the grind....so we are really only doing it for exp

hot quarry
#

Technically if farm enough silvers you can actually buy these big items so it could be considered that in a given month you farmed/found "1/15 of an animalistic shield" etc...
But it seems like that nominal rate of silver find is not very high for 70% of the population of players to ingame get these items...

ashen yew
crude hound
ashen yew
#

wyrom mentioned earlier that reim group sizes almost crashed the game

#

a lot of unintended consequences hahaha

crude hound
#

Yes I played in the time of hector

#

But if it was a solo rogue experience it could work.........Dev is addicted to the idea that people get together and do fun stuff like reim ...and it's true I enjoy running reim with other humans but in reality it's always going to open the door to trivialized content.....saying a bard makes a group 20-30 times faster isn't hyperbole it's math, but even a non bard group is not just additive in its ability to increase TTK

lethal hull
#

Reim would be more attractive if the prizes changed

flint wharf
#

You know what's an attractive prize for everyone?
Experience Orbs

unkempt chasm
#

Only if unattuned!

cobalt jetty
#

Why would they as a company compete with what they're trying to offer to keep the game afloat, for free.

I don't buy these claims that "we need the p2w stuff for free"

#

Right now, the biggest problem is there's stuff coming in, and stuff going out. And the stuff coming in is way bigger than the stuff going out. So you need to either reduce the stuff coming in, or increase the stuff going out.

Everyone currently is just saying, give me more, even though I barely participate in the treasure environment to begin with.

crude hound
#

People "not participating" is normally considered a problem in game design

cobalt jetty
#

So make people play more? It's not the design of the treasure that's at fault. It's the people putting in minimal time/effort.

crude hound
#

Ok how do you encourage people to play more? I feel like your thiiiiiis close

ashen yew
#

login rewards

cobalt jetty
#

lumnis, profession services.

smoky depot
#

That's basically the "lumnis for loot" proposal

ashen yew
#

okay I said login rewards to troll but actually the game literally already has a system to give you rewards for killing enemies that is renewed every day, it's just only used to give you LTE boosts

#

unironically they should use that system to give you presents

cobalt jetty
#

Wyrom said that lumnis loot boost wouldn't currently work, but I feel like it could work in combination with a suite of changes. 90% reduction in selling values, 10m cap...

Additional drains - both forced and optional.

  • Advguild silver charging
  • Damage & repair system for weapons/armor (Like dragonrealms)
unkempt chasm
#

You can also find urchin runners or BOOST ENHANCIVE STATS uses once a day from looting!

smoky depot
unkempt chasm
#

They're not tradeable! Isn't that what people like? Account-bound stuff?

lethal hull
#

I have asked many times for advg silver recharging to be open year round. Still no idea why its not

unkempt chasm
#

I was being facetious, but man, imagine the world where we could trade daily login rewards. People would just cycle through all their premium alts and everybody would have bounty waivers, loot boosts, enhancive boosts, and superchargers active all the time. I don't even think it would be a good thing, but it would be pretty wild to see the market prices for these boosts!

"Selling a bulk lot of 1098 bounty task waivers, 10.98m."

lethal hull
#

Considering huge numbers are hoarded and unused, i think only very specific ones would have value

cobalt jetty
#

I want all the bounty boosts. These are trash: an Adventurer's Guild voucher pack - When you have to spend 10-20 of them to get the bounty you want.

unkempt chasm
#

I had to look up just now why I don't bother with the bounty task waivers since avoiding escort bounties seems pretty nice.

Apparently they only last an hour, so that explains that.

smoky depot
#

Juice them like oranges.

#

Or lemons, as the alt may be.

unkempt chasm
#

If I could sell instant absorbs, LTE boosts, and doubled exp boosts, I'd have more premium accounts and I'd cycle through every character on every one of them. 👀

smoky depot
#

Didn't Wyrom say that the median login was just for login rewards? Or am I warping that?

smoky depot
unkempt chasm
#

#1190341191074594846 message

The login reward system fails because it doesn't encourage engagement with the game.  So our numbers show 20,000 to 30,000 logins a day, but we have to measure it two ways to have true numbers.```
smoky depot
#

Lumnis for loot is still catchy, though.

smoky depot
flint wharf
crude hound
#

I don't know why attunement scares people. Attune all over me.

flint wharf
crude hound
#

Le sigh

red crystal
#

There should be 2 attunements. 1 =25% off and is account tuned and 2= 40% off and is character tuned 😬. Lock it all down!

violet fjord
red crystal
violet fjord
#

Sorry, I forgot one caveat - it must be retroactively applicable 😁

crude hound
#

They should change the log in to be more of those boost bounty rewards those are nice.....but this is not treasure related

red crystal
#

The pinned list really is full of some great ideas. Maybe we should do some kind of survey. Does discord have a survey monkey feature?

crude hound
#

Vote potato for option a and taco for option b

flint wharf
#

Ooph… i really like option a….

But im also partial to tacos. And a vote for a is a vote against tacos. This is quite a pickle

crude hound
unkempt chasm
#

A Discord survey isn't a good, fair, or representative idea since not every player even uses Discord at all, never mind reads this specific server, never mind reads this specific thread. If such a survey were to happen, then conducting it in-game seems the way to go.

crude hound
#

True, but conducting it in game just favors the ones with the most accounts.

The great problem with knowing anything. Do you listen to the discord crowd, many of us with obvious biases and a history of making crap up, or the in game crowd where one person can be 26 votes.

unkempt chasm
#

Good point.

No survey at all. The GMs should just do what they think is right based on reasoned arguments, then the chips fall where they may. If things need adjustment later, so be it!

flint wharf
#

I agree. Great for them to get feedback from the players, but GMs ultimately gotta do what’s best for the game!

red crystal
red crystal
inner edge
#

Oh dear... I only now saw this thread.
Just how deep are they trying to get? Small tweaks to improve treasure/economy? Or huge sweeping changes that impact most every aspect of the treasure/economy system?

lethal hull
#

I do not think there is the will or capacity to do any 'huge sweeping changes' of any kind in Gemstone anymore on any system

brave turtle
#

PSM3 was probably the last one of those

lethal hull
#

I think the most meaningful change that is even possibly in the life of the game will be savants at some point

inner edge
#

Long & short... there needs to be more silver sinks.
Ideally, the amount of silver going into players hands should be nearly matched by the amount of silver leaving players hands.
Silver doesn't move much, it is generated by the game and then does nothing.
They've staunched that a bit by the regular events to turn silver into powerful items and unique buffs... But that can only take us so far.

unkempt chasm
#

You guys might have too strict a definition of "huge sweeping changes" if the spell disabler review less than three months ago doesn't count and the upcoming gemstones don't count.

buoyant rain
#

::cries in bard::

inner edge
#

Well my definition of sweeping changes when it comes to treasure/economy would be pretty sweeping.
It would basically re-build the economy and change how treasure is dropped, how it's used, how silver works, add in a real and robust crafting system, and build an actual player-to-player economy.

cloud vigil
inner edge
#

But in general, I'd agree with what I read way up top... Try not to fix things twice.
Though I don't necessarily think loot cap and mob pressure are mutually exclusive - one is about preventing inflation, and the other is about encouraging players to diversify their hunting areas. It's two different systems with two different goals.

sly cloak
#

Is loot pressure achieving its goal? Is hunting diversified enough?

inner edge
#

I'd say in shattered it helps... People in post-cap areas spread things around quite a lot. There's people who don't care much about loot - they hang out in Nelemar & OTF... and there's people who do care, and they diversify into post-cap areas.

#

The problem with the economy is that through your normal gameplay getting exp, you are given a truly gargantuan amount of loot straight from the game systems. And yet there's very few ways for that loot to go back into the game systems.

#

There's silver fountains. And only really two silver sinks - the event boxes & GM auctions.

crude hound
unkempt chasm
# cloud vigil Disabler review doesn’t count.

I’m open to the argument, but I can’t think of a way I’d arrive at that definition that wouldn’t lead me to conclude that the last sweeping changes happened in the GS3 to GS4 transition.

Not that there’s anything wrong with that definition, though! It’s just definitely not the one I’d use.

inner edge
#

There's no other MMO game economy that works like that.
Every other game economy I can think of gives actually quite little loot from killing.
You usually get money from crafting systems and trade with other characters. E.g. a real economy.

#

But since the game is 30 years old, I don't think there's much wiggle room in the base architecture of the economy.
So it doesn't really matter what you do to improve the treasure system - it's not the problem. The economy is.
Might as well just keep it the way it is.

#

Let's just take something like fletching...
Imagine in order to level up fletching, you had to make arrows from an increasingly expensive wood.
And that NPC-run shops didn't sell wood. You had to find wood from mobs, or mine it from trees. The better woods were in harder areas or dropped from harder mobs.

You need better woods to make the better arrows. But you also needed it just to level up your skills just to be able to make the better arrows. Also, arrows are consumable items, so you have to continually make or buy them.

Now you have a little economy that pops up... Do that for every single dropped item in the game.

That's a sweeping change.

lethal hull
crude hound
inner edge
#

Gemstone has never worked like that... It's always been "Here's a time sink. You can get all the materials for the time sink at the NPC." It's single-player game mechanics in a multi-player game.

lethal hull
#

Thats because tedium is bad design. You want a system that nickle and dime the player to death? Osa. And its a miserable way to use your 300m silver character attuned boat

inner edge
#

Fletching, Crafting, Forging... that's tedium. And I agree it's a bad design.

unkempt chasm
# crude hound Gemstones?

Formerly known as charms. They're the Ascension hunting ground carrot, a subsystem of gemstones that confer benefits and can be traded with others until used, at which point they're character-bound.

inner edge
#

But worse yet, it's tedium with little payoff or point. And even worse yet, with zero economy support. You can max out all these systems without interacting with any other players ever.

cobalt jetty
crude hound
lethal hull
#

Bingo. Gemstones are going to have a massive sticker shock

unkempt chasm
lethal hull
unkempt chasm
cobalt jetty
#

PSM. The disabler review was kind of joke IMO. It felt like a last minute series of reducing cRT and mana costs and that's pretty much it. (Yes, a few other things were changed, but it wasn't sweeping.)

lethal hull
#

PSMs effect on square combat. Grit is whatever and rogue service is vaporware

unkempt chasm
#

PSM was largely changing stamina costs and RT while adding new effects to a handful of maneuvers, so I don't see the difference.

cobalt jetty
#

He rewrote the entire system

lethal hull
#

Dont know what to say. I didnt have 4 swings in 1 second before psm

#

Major bleed. Vulnerable. Rooting. I may be Gemstone’s best cleric player, but im also understand warriors really well.

unkempt chasm
#

To be clear, I'm not making the case that PSM didn't have a larger impact on the player experience. The original angle I'm responding to was that...

I do not think there is the will or capacity to do any 'huge sweeping changes' of any kind in Gemstone anymore on any system```
...which isn't about the player experience at all, but the amount of work and design time being put in. The spell disabler review didn't have to do much for me personally (and it didn't) to acknowledge that a lot went into it.


Edit: And circling back to keep this on-topic, a lot of the things being requested in this thread would be irrelevant to me, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't take work or shouldn't be recognized as such if they did happen.
cobalt jetty
#

I don't get that impression at all and this isn't a "Safe Space" where I can share my impression of the disabler review.

lethal hull
#

I dont think there is the ability for staff to push a sweeping project into the game. One bard review and a divergence walk back proved that. Players who have the various game systems on auto pilot for a decade arent going to allow a system change they wont benefit from.

cobalt jetty
#

I think it's possible, but the project can't be driven by someone who has an obvious bias against the profession they're trying to "fix"

The person driving divergence hated Pures and clearly didn't understand them with the changes being forced through

lethal hull
#

I dont think we need sweeping projects. I may have started this loot mess with my video+thread, but this is no higher than like priorty 5 on my list

unkempt chasm
#

I think we need sweeping projects at some point. My definition of that might be more generous, though, since I have in mind the bard review, empath review, wizard review, gemstones, Elite/Legendary Ascension, and Spell Lore. Potentially, I've count some of the suggestions in this thread--not most, but a few ideas offered are really large in scope.

brave turtle
#

I will be happy to be proven wrong in time but I don't believe there is appetite to undertake profession reviews and the associated blowback when a review inevitably nerfs something

green elbow
#

goes back to mastering alchemy and hoping she has enough treasure system components stockpiled

placid vortex
#

Should I edit the title and just put "the absolute hottest of takes" so we know what to expect before diving into a day of discussions?

inner edge
#

I just wanna know what the gem shops are doing with all these gems...

placid vortex
#

Lot of what has been talked about today has been answered a few times in this thread and another thread.

placid vortex
buoyant rain
#

Talk of full profession reviews seems premature when we still haven't received the full scope of the *spell disabler review.

Context: bard spell disabler review changes were installed on 12/31, backed out on 12/31 with a 'few days' to fix, and we have gotten no updates since.

placid vortex
#

As for the gemstone system name change from charms, I think I'm a little bit responsible for that, though Auchand floated it first. I think it's a great idea that the "capstone" system for end game is something associated with the name of the game.

crude hound
#

Lol the name is fine, and the concept is really close to some suggestions.....I just imagine the confusion on The merchant channel because we already have gemstones.....might I suggest a totally unused original name like infinity stones or ioun stones which have never been used before anywhere

unkempt chasm
#

Just call them power gemstones or super gemstones or something, problem solved!

placid vortex
#

MEGA GEMSTONE

crude hound
#

Gemstones of Powa

placid vortex
#

MOAG

crude hound
#

My biggest problem with ascension level 2 or gemstone of power is we DONT NEED to be more powerful

placid vortex
#

Clipped, saved.

inner edge
#

Lol... Yet*

lethal hull
#

I actually think charms being ‘Gemstones’ in game is a very clever idea.

ashen yew
#

I think calling them gemstones is great, it’s just funny to me because a major component of the game’s treasure system is already gemstones

lethal hull
#

Needs a signature GS spelling. Random capitalizations. Extra vowels. Apostraphies for no reason

ashen yew
#

Pentagrammic gemstones

green elbow
#

...sparkle rocks.

lethal hull
#

Geam’Stones. Ship it.

Straightjacket some lore about the lost civilzation of Geam

placid vortex
#

Should camelcase it like the game.

ashen yew
#

also I agree with leafiara, the sweepingness of a change is not defined by how much you liked it

ashen yew
lethal hull
#

The legendary Brown Zircon

crude hound
#

Hopefully the stones themselves are uniquely named....like the Hinterwild Sliver or whatever for discussion purposes....the Soul Stone....the ioun stone of wisdom....

lethal hull
#

Make them all varieties of smooth stones for maximum meme

brave turtle
dusky goblet
placid vortex
#

I don't want to change this into game reviews, it's just treasure stuff. The spell disabler review was pretty close to PSM in terms of project loads. If anything, I would say the SDR was a bit tougher because it's taking existing systems and working through 30 years of code in some cases. Where PSM was taking a lot of new systems and sitting them into a newer UX. We have other threads and channels with ongoing stuff on them. I know some classes are waiting for their changes, others are waiting for fixes. We're working on it all. Profession reviews are still happening, I'd not call anything vaporware that has hit a player facing announcement, just back burnered until we have resources to tackle them all. I don't agree that savants would do much for the game, monks didn't, but UAC did. That's why we shifted focus to the mental spells making it out to the game for now.

Locksmith is accurate that silver IN should match silver OUT. There is too much IN and not enough regularly OUT. It's only since the last 6 years would I say we have the OUT under control, but the IN is out of control now. IN being in your possessions. OUT being in MINE. Auchand and I came up with bite-sized release phases to tackle treasure stuff though that touch on a lot of systems.

ashen yew
#

I like the idea that there is a big pile of silver in your office that is all the silver you drained from the game

placid vortex
crude hound
#

Treasure Improvement Hot Take: Silver Should be Weightless- reason for suggesting this: Burghal Gnomes.... also dragonbones

buoyant rain
placid vortex
#

I've mentioned the staff resource issue in a few channels now, but once we're fully stacked again, we'll be picking off all the projects that have been announced or announcing they are dead. I don't see the SDR or profession reviews being dead. Savants have died a few times, but maybe one day.

#

Savant announcement turns 20!! Hide and seek champions of the century for GS!

inner edge
#

I still want Hero's Journey, dangit
Game looked awesome

forest notch
placid vortex
#

So funny enough, I was poking around some old staff sites we have and I found some screenshots from HJ. They looked pretty awesome.

placid vortex
forest notch
placid vortex
#

If you want to swoon me with song, you must do it with deathcore growls.

buoyant rain
#

The HJ demo was pretty awesome in 2000. I remember the horse physics being quite advanced for their time.

forest notch
crude hound
forest notch
slow zodiac
#

oh, a free rank 6 guild skill to flaunt in our face. Way to double down on how fortunate you are 😛

kind steeple
#

Rogues can restore lockpicks. Saves a lot of silver on them vaalin picks.

crude hound
placid vortex
#

Here is an HJ screenshot from 2007. For 2007, that looks kind of cool.

image.png
#

Sorry that it is tiny.

crude hound
#

Oh look...it's a tinyhero....journey

unkempt swallow
placid vortex
#

I'm a hot mess of offtopic chatter.

red crystal
normal bloom
#

Anthrax did something with run DMC? About 35 years ago.

forest notch
placid vortex
#

I main a rogue, I totally get it.

forest notch
#

There was a comment yesterday that no GMs main rogues.

So we stand corrected. Good to know! Someone in the rogue family.

cloud vigil
#

The disabler review was not a huge sweeping change. I hear it added a few helpful things to some classes, but I’ve not heard anything that would constitute a huge sweeping change. @jaunty gate (was scrolled up, sorry).

cobalt jetty
#

The rogue service was more like 5 rogue services. Too big to fail .. or not

hot quarry
#

Did the disabler review fundamentally change the way various classes use disablers for the better? All I saw was negative feedback and from what I know of wizards we only changed to 912 because they totally nerfed 410.... so almost forced change. Rangers mad, bards mad.... who actually is happy?

#

I like using 912 so its good and bad, I dont have an concrete evidence that 912 (SMR numbers) is now better except it costs less mana and RT i think which is very nice

placid vortex
forest notch
crude hound
placid vortex
# forest notch Ehhhh. Hide is powerful, yes. But I go it with no KS and no self spelling. ... 
  Two Weapon Combat..................|     302     202
  Armor Use..........................|     300     200
  Combat Maneuvers...................|     302     202
  Edged Weapons......................|     328     228
  Thrown Weapons.....................|     311     211
  Brawling...........................|     302     202
  Ambush.............................|     302     202
  Multi Opponent Combat..............|     200     100
  Physical Fitness...................|     302     202
  Dodging............................|     430     330
  Arcane Symbols.....................|     105      25
  Magic Item Use.....................|     201     101
  Harness Power......................|     114      28
  Stalking and Hiding................|     436     336
  Perception.........................|     302     202
  Climbing...........................|     150      50
  Swimming...........................|     150      50

This is me, no outside spells beyond MIU. I haven't died since 2011.

jaunty gate
#

Yeah but you haven't logged in since 2012 so it's not all that impressive.

placid vortex
#

Haha, I was waiting for it! I still play! I mostly warcamp or 3rd floor Nelemar. EASY MODE.

#

This is Platinum, so geographical challenges are moot.

inner edge
#

Rogues have just an incredible number of ways to not die. can't attack what you can see, sucka

placid vortex
#

Yeah. Tons of ways to get out of a situation. Never take any risks hunting, I come from the droppage era in Platinum.

unkempt chasm
placid vortex
#

I lost two weapons once at 3am in OTF, so I stopped taking those sorts of risks.

lethal hull
#

I think its important staff keep playing for those reasons. Exposes how unfun some mechanics are

kind steeple
#

Lol, that must be the day Wyrom removed droppage from Platinum

placid vortex
#

Haha, it was before I was staff!

#

I remember frantically IMing people.

green elbow
#

was that before or after Fink ragequit?

lethal hull
#

Can we interest you in an itchy curse? Another fan favorite

placid vortex
#

Safe hunting! SAFE HUNTING. Brain dead on 3rd floor Nelemar hunting!

green elbow
#

...I hate Nelemar because I'm either A) bored out of my mind or B) dead (a la sentry POINTING at me and laughing at my corpse.)

placid vortex
#

NO RISK NO REWARD, DOESN'T MATTER THOUGH IN GS (too soon?)

kind steeple
#

KS laughs at implosion

placid vortex
#

In all seriousness, I just hid and walked around looking for easy targets. The 2nd floor was way too bananas for me. Scatter gave me nightmares. Warcamps are also pretty easy. I don't count bandits since those are just too slow to guarantee them without adv guild vouchers. OTF is fun, but too many variables. I've not done OSA much with my capped rogue. I haven't tried any of the new hunting grounds.

forest notch
placid vortex
#

I don't use scripts at all outside traveling. No Lich.

#

I use a few macros.

forest notch
#

Fair. So you also get the benefit from the bonuses of the rogue services that would be for all. Okay, I feel a bit better now.

Much props. Representing the rogue nation.

inner edge
#

Locksmith does well in OSA. Not as ridiculous as the sorc or wizard, but he's good.

kind steeple
#

Scatter is easy other than the lich phylactery

forest notch
#

Well, I paused when he said easy mode but when he described his careful, cautious, and meticulous hunts, I was glad that he brought it out there. We don't clear joints like other classes on a whim, so it's fun for someone to explain that side from up top.

Because the biggest time waster...is being a corpse.

crude hound
#

He should be in the east tower

forest notch
crude hound
ashen yew
#

(it is amazing)

crude hound
#

Ah the game of Discord you played it well....notice I didn't say S tier....I know the rules

cloud vigil
#

110 is so good. I hope it doesn’t get recalibrated.

hot quarry
#

What classes use minor spirit disablers over their own circle disablers? empaths?

ashen yew
#

that's the trick, if you call it single target ewave they can't nerf it without nerfing ewave again and we know they can't do that

ashen yew
dusky goblet
#

go arachne or ivas. grapple/unbalance 309 and it becomes even meaner 110

ashen yew
#

but then you can't kill them with 309!

#

I mean you can

#

it would take so long

crude hound
dusky goblet
#

i don't think you get a TON of actual crit deaths do you with 309? maybe with a puncture or crush god.

edit: it's mostly relatively fast attirtion doing like 55+ damage a round

hot quarry
#

My cleric is in a weird spot, way too old to be hunting OTF hence doesnt need any disables but too cowardly to hunt HW where I would need them, 317 (x99)

ashen yew
#

I would simply not be a coward

#

what's the worst that can happen you die? guess what you get one a day for free

crude hound
#

135 has also become my go-to tap things in reim/invasions

ashen yew
#

genuinely have no idea what 135 does

#

oh I don't know 135

hot quarry
#

So your that dude that open casts 135 and blinds me during invasions???

ashen yew
#

I use 217 for invasion tagging haha

crude hound
lethal hull
#

I know a 9mxp cleric who rolls HW forest and gigas np

crude hound
#

Well yea clerics are OP we all know that

#

Leafiara is OP, Leafiara is a cleric, ergo and forsooth.....by silly gisms.....

cloud vigil
#

I too heard that Clerics are OP.

smoky depot
stiff thistle
#

Do it! I have all sorts of ill thought out things to say!

hot quarry
#

Come see all of the Hottest Takes in your local area.....

crude hound
smoky depot
#

Take 'em to PC with the rest of the malcontentery!

#

(Don't actually go to PC, that place is gross.)

crude hound
#

Treasure Improvements Suggestion: create more consumables that people might trade for like TD potions and Dispell flaring arrows that hit demons. I think the yellow crystals in the hive are a good step in that direction.

forest notch
#

I just realized something. My stats are mad close to Wyrom’s rogue

crude hound
#

Yardie why do you keep taking this off topic? Every time I do a valid treasure system suggestion you come out of the east tower and start talking!

smoky depot
forest notch
#

Stream of consciousness?

Also he don’t even pick!

crude hound
#

Well don't complain about no service when you cant even be bothered to do the one they gave you.

smoky depot
forest notch
crude hound
# forest notch That’s not a service you dolt!!

Woa me being a dolt is an in game secret and you should put that in those black spoiler tags or run afoul of discord rule 4, also it is a service they don't have to all look alike, also grit is awesome will take free grit any day.

forest notch
ashen yew
unkempt chasm
#

They're all grumbling threads if you just stick around long enough.
Sometimes "long enough" is only a single post in!

placid vortex
cloud vigil
#

No grumbling allowed in #rumor-woods this time. I made a promise, only to be positive. And I hope everyone joins me in that pledge.

unkempt chasm
#

That's a channel, not a thread!

(I'm always positive in the pay event channels, which makes them a bit difficult to read sometimes since they almost inevitably take a turn at some point.)

crude hound
cloud vigil
crude hound
cobalt jetty
ashen yew
#

there already is a forum with no moderation

smoky depot
pulsar dune
placid vortex
#

Yeah Mithogras was really the one to seek out back then.

#

Oengus also did a lot of bashing for me too!

pulsar dune
#

for sure, he is missed even to this day

slate flume
#

Late to this party, but Locksmith pool....yeah

hot quarry
hot quarry
#

In the modwir trunk you see a small flaxen citrine, a rutilated frostbite amethyst, an inky black nightstone, some ambrominas leaf and some silver coins.
!>get coin
You can only collect 32,800 of the coins due to your load.
Roundtime changed to 11 seconds.
Roundtime: 26 sec.

#

Either lootcap resets early or the lack of power hunters late in the month truly drive up loot because the last 2 days feel like a fresh cap...

lethal hull
#

leap year?

unkempt chasm
#

Dude, where's your fossil charm? Were you not playing when that giftbox happened? 😱

green elbow
#

...I love my fossil charm so much.

hot quarry
violet fjord
#

Speaking of fossil charms - what does silvers since the last time they were confused. mean?

inner edge
#

there's a counter and a lifetime counter. You can confuse them to reset the counter

violet fjord
#

My boys are averaging over 1400 silvers per pickup. Champs.

inner edge
#

They have been summoned 14,744 times and gathered 36,600,691 silvers over their lifetime.
I may play too much

violet fjord
#

I'm afraid of what that means about me: They have been summoned 34,970 times and gathered 51,843,349 silvers over their lifetime.

inner edge
#

you play too much too

unkempt chasm
#

I see that and all I can think is that either your boxes are terrible or you're using FLAG GATHERCOINS OFF.

violet fjord
#

The latter. Can't be getting caught in HW with coin gathering roundtime! Those 700 silver piles are a trap

hot quarry
#

I do have gather coins off because it is a pain to be in HW and gettting random 1 RT. bugs help with that

unkempt chasm
#

I miss when leaving that flag off would just gather all the coins into a single pile so I could fossil charm the whole thing up. Once that stopped, I turned the flag back on. 😢

hot quarry
#

more scroll is good scroll

ripe juniper
#

Does that mean Prime is richer than Shattered? I missed that it's been used 20,000 more times.

inner edge
#

Oh I'm not the person to check charm data on... I don't hunt for silver nearly at all.

gaunt ridge
# 
Inside a crystallized silvery fossil charm are a swarm of long-armed sepia praying mantises awaiting to serve you.  They have been summoned 6,925 times and gathered 19,749,459 silvers over their lifetime.  They have been commanded 6,925 times and retrieved 19,749,459 silvers since the last time they were confused.  The charm was last used 770 seconds ago.``` neat
flint wharf
#

As you sing, you feel a faint resonating vibration from the vultite arm greaves in your hand...

The magical harmonics reveal that arms are better protected when wearing the vultite arm greaves.
The greaves resonates with your voice, indicating that it enhances its owner in the following ways:
It provides a boost of 26 to ||Climbing|| Bonus.
This enhancement may not be used by adventurers who have not trained 70 times.
The greaves looks to have a lot of charges remaining.

--- so close to being something so amazing

hot quarry
unkempt chasm
#

Loot pressure has somehow brought us full circle to where I'm getting more silver per creature from Sheruvian harbingers (Landing-based) than Forgotten Vineyard shan (Solhaven-based) or Crawling Shore creatures (Icemule-based) despite the latter two being immensely more dangerous (both in and of themselves and because the latter two grounds have spell sever).

I assume this is because Darkstone Castle is a pain to get into for non-Voln members, but I don't want to base a hypothesis (never mind suggestions regarding loot pressure and/or future hunting grounds) on an assumption without considering other possible explanations. Anyone have any?

dusky goblet
#

i think it's just generally a crapshoot at lower levels. there just aren't enough people routinely hunting so it's just kinda who was actually active this week, or which person was strip mining on their alts this week, etc.

unkempt chasm
#

🤔 Hmm, that would make sense. Okay, so in theory a small number of players (possibly even one) could drastically shift the loot pressure economy in a given pre-cap level range, whereas people's behavior at cap is more stable and consistent.

dusky goblet
#

but in general i think yeah, "annoying to get to" is potentially even a bigger road block for people that difficulty of creatures once you're there. You at least feel a bit in control with diffulcult creatures but "paddle this boat upstream for 3 minutes" is annoying all the time

slow zodiac
#

There are a few capped groups that strip mine middle level hunting grounds. Especially those with skins. Could be one of them did you a solid this week

unkempt chasm
#

I guess that would make sense. I was kind of amazed yesterday when I went to go kill level 3 Ocoma Vale hobs to find a starter weapon for a new player and got a slew of 20-30 pound boxes in the process. 🤣 (Using a capped character. To be fair, the gems inside did suck even though the coins were good, but still.)

slow zodiac
# 
You notice a luminous arachnid, a massive grahnk, a luminous arachnid, a spiked cavern urchin, a spiked cavern urchin, a phosphorescent worm, a phosphorescent worm, a massive grahnk, a massive grahnk, a coral shield, a heavy stone club and a squid-crested breastplate.
Also here: char1, char2, char3, char4, char5, char6, char7, char8, char9, char10, char11, char12, char13, char14, char15, char16, char17, char18, char19, char20, char21, char22, char23, char24, char25```
25 capped characters in thurfels non stop for days at a time 🤷‍♂️  Loot must go somewhere else
unkempt chasm
#

I wonder if they actually make as much (or more) silver that way as if they just went to a capped hunting ground. 🤔

Edit: Actually, it would have to be more to make any sense unless they either A) also do enough capped hunting to max out resources each week or B) have no interest in selling profession services.

flint wharf
brave turtle
#

Yeah not a single one of those characters should be getting even 1 silver. That’s insane.

flint wharf
#

although they're probably doing it for the skins, since those don't count towards loot cap.....

unkempt chasm
#

In fairness, though, there is a dilemma here posed by the myriad regularly hosted MHO and CHE group hunts floating around.

brave turtle
#

If the capped people involved won’t do those hunts without getting loot it wasn’t really a community effort then i guess

flint wharf
unkempt chasm
#

It's not the capped characters I'm concerned with, but the non-capped characters who want to join in the community.

brave turtle
#

25 capped characters hunting the cellar is just outright abusive. Even if it’s permitted by the letter of the policy rather than the spirit

fair loom
#

Three GMS should really just simultaneously start working through the characters asking them all to respond to something... :p

lethal hull
#

I think worrying about group hunts by official orgs as a concern in this environment of 25 man MA army is honestly a non problem. They could code a 1 hour purchasable MHO buff that lets a group ignore loot cap for that hour and can only be bought 1x a month

#

Watching a 25 man operation do that unimpeded kills my morale for sure

unkempt chasm
#

Purchasable how? If by Simucoins, that goes against your usual stance that the game's already asking too much money from players. If by silvers, that seems to defeat the point.

And how would the system distinguish MHO/CHE redemptions from non-MHO redemptions, especially since scheduled group hunts almost always allow non-members to join in?

lethal hull
#

Have it be part of the townhall system. For silver. A gold hunting license or whatever. Same way you purchase mho tents

#

A 25 man MA team exists because staff lets its exist. Simple as that really. GMs could easily tell the difference between that and an mho/che group hunt

unkempt chasm
#

Okay, so backtracking to where we're at...

The idea from Kontii is that underhunting shouldn't drop any loot.

I brought up CHE/MHO group hunts as posing a problem to that.

Your solution is that an officer can buy a license for silver and then... Anyone who joins their group for X period of time after license redemption ignores the underhunting penalty while hunting with them?

lethal hull
#

Oh I don't think there is going to be any major changes to the current system, like underhunting changing.

I was referring more to 25 characters controlled by one player is a a disruptive force in the game and should not be a thing. And if PROs wanted to run big group hunts, there are ways to enable it

#

But I'm in a weird place on loot these days. I think that loot cap has likely benefited the folks at the highest end of loot more than anyone else thanks to regulatory capture

cobalt jetty
#

What CHE/MHO groups underhunt, and why

I don't think that's an actual thing, and the abuse is more important to stop even if it is once a month, an actual thing

unkempt chasm
#

Basically all of them that host group hunts do it since they have to hunt things that the lowest level characters in the group can survive, but they also bring along higher level characters.

So, at very least, there's Argent Aspis weekly bounty help, Drakes Vanguard daily group hunts, Ord an Dragan monthly bounty help, and [House Onoir + The Northern Fury + Twilight Hall + Willow Hall] twice monthly bounty help, but probably others I don't even know about.

slate flume
#

I'd like to see what amount of the population hits loot cap in hours played. Mention has been mid-month so looking for things to do, but thats on some 10 hours a dayx14 for 240 hours of playtime level.

#

I'm not even correcting that math, but it's similarly high. I don't think the game was built for that at anypoint in time, now and especially not then

fair loom
#

Actually, if they just removed the loot bonus for group hunting it would likely solve at least some of the issue. Groups already have the advantage of being safer and being able to kill faster; I'm not sure why loot has to be additionally boosted on top of those other factors.

#

Assuming the group bonus isn't capped (meaning more people in a group, larger the bonus) I could see it get to a point where it completely offsets level disparity.

lethal hull
#

The only way to solve an issue of 25 MA characters in a hunting ground is to apply policy 3

unkempt chasm
flint wharf
#

If i had to guess, they’re probably raking it in from:
Insane spawn rate due to group size combined with Insane silver generation from skins (with no loot cap impact).
Any “loot” is probably just coincidental or a cherry on top.

green elbow
#

...I had no idea that skins did not contribute to loot cap

flint wharf
#

I could be wrong there, but based on all the convos I’ve seen, I’m pretty sure they don’t.

@unkempt chasm could probably confirm

jaunty gate
#

Skins are definitely impacted by loot cap. Just ask @tribal aspen how much his dreadsteed skulls sell for.

red crystal
#

some days watching everyone talk about loot caps feels like watching billionaires at Davos talking about a Billionaire tax...it seems good on paper but somehow doesn't seem like it will ever translate into something that changes my poor little GS middleclass life 😛

unkempt chasm
lethal hull
#

dreasteed skulls sell for crap regardless of cap

jaunty gate
lethal hull
#

maybe Moonsedge was visted by Vünter Slauche and his 24 elves. I've seen 3k valravn skins drop to 500 silver when Hinterwilds gets its monthly visit

flint wharf
#

ahhh, okay, today I learned! i swore skins were exempt from loot cap.

jaunty gate
#

The hive is the place to be for skins. I get some that are close to 10k. I got like 7500 bps from a skin bounty yesterday.

bright zenith
#

This is why we can’t have nice things

rare tiger
#

Loot cap =/= loot pressure. Sounds like the skins may be suffering from the latter.

jaunty gate
#

If it was loot pressure, and not loot cap, my skins would sell for around 10 silvers when Brute's do, but they don't. Moreover, I notice a decrease in skin value as the month goes on (and I get closer to cap), regardless of who's hunting in the same area as me. I imagine skin values are subject to both loot cap and loot pressure.

lethal hull
#

skin values to my understanding are subject to neither. Instead, their price/value fluctuates based on how much they are sold in a period of time to the furrier

jaunty gate
#

That might also be true, by which I mean there's a third system that influences skin price, but skin value is definitely subject to loot cap. My reasoning:

  1. I hoard skins for bounties. I have a minimum value for each skin type to hoard (so I get more BPs). As the month goes on, my collection of skins gets smaller. I always "stock up" at the beginning of the month.
  2. As I said above, if it was supply/demand across multiple characters, I would have the same sell prices as Brute when we're both grinding out Moon's Edge (I don't), and his skin prices wouldn't reset at the beginning of each month (they do).
  3. This one is more speculative of course, but Occam's razor tells me that skin values should be part of the loot system. After all, why not? If I was designing the system, that's how I'd do it. Otherwise, people who have hit loot cap could just rotate between hunting areas and keep raking in silvers from skins.
hot quarry
slate flume
#

I like the legendary feeder, feeder items in general. I've never really been fortunate to win or find much and it seems more about unique loot, or heck even RPA orbs would help on frequency, like a 5% box change for a green orb or something.

#

The problem remains monetization or magntitude strip mine hunting of bots that create weird strain. I never felt the treasure system of Gemstone was every particularly good. If we want to broaden it, it's similar to the 1 billion BS script farmed out of DR on near automation

cobalt jetty
#

Insightful

kind steeple
#

Skins values are 100% subject to loot cap. If you hit loot cap the value of the skin tanks. A 3,000 silver skin being worth 10 silver.

frosty gate
floral storm
#

Not sure if this was suggested already but another silver sink idea to toss out there. If an enhancive crumbles is it possible to send it to the adventure guild to restore it at a cost like 1m silvers+. Just my random thought of the day.

unkempt chasm
#

So breakage but for enhancives? 😛

slate flume
#

Boost login rewards. Boost playtime. Increase chances for unique treasure for unique characters. I don't think this is priority #20 for the game when you consider Simucoin events. Treasure continues to become Simucoin/Event, which thankfully is gated (By $ spent....) vs. alternatives of simply farming it via scripting. Incentive a Level 14 and level 41 with an item drop. Capped or the top end are cared for and incentive during DR through accumulation or the Simucoin spent.

cobalt jetty
#

lol wut

hollow zephyr
#

Unique characters? Dat ol' feller's tryin to gits me to kill off da tree udder Shieldmaidens? Noway! We a close knit group!

#

(tho...none us actually knows how to knit.)

#

Back to da subjeck.... Bounty Task Waivers: 459. Make em worth a million silbers each! I'll neber complain bout nuffin eber agin.