#[Official] State of Elanthia - November 12th @ 1PM EST

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

raven compass
#

Shoot, I thought it was Tick buh. Time to retrain my thoughts.

sly beacon
#

So what you're saying, is my comment about the wanting a certain name but it already being taken is totally correct? well dang haha

rain dawn
#

New Player Experience should include perma-Lumnis for levels 0-20.

weak mortar
#

Request on Invoker Changes: If we’re moving to a silvers charge system and not going to have the service available 24/7, could we at least see more times added for those of us in other time zones? There are some big gaps in availability while the rest of you are sleeping. Thank you!

timber cipher
#

👀

faint spear
#

If you all just used your real names….

night lodge
#

The name purge happened in 2003, lots of names opened back up at/with/near the GSIV conversion.

native island
#

Moving the invoker to premium only is super bleh. Last thing we need is more in game things locked behind cash.

night lodge
#

If newInvoker will have a silver price on top of a cash gate (premium), I don't see any reason why it should only be available during specific hours. The time gate only penalizes people who aren't playing to its predefined schedule. A more uniform way of doing it would be to have it always available but usage be limited to once per X hours or similar.

somber dew
#

Good call, Tih vuhvuh eye.

#

Narrator: It was at this pre-coffee bleary eyed moment that Erek realized how far up he was scrolled.

haughty relic
#

if new-voker is unlimited then i guess premium players pre spell barrier/sever are going to be crushing everything, like there will be even less balance than previously with 4 hr voker. my unpopular opinion would be take it away completely or make it premium 1x per day any time for 10k

lusty sedge
#

I don't see much point in limiting frequency or availability once there's a charge. if you're dying multiple times with full invoker and want to spend silvers each time, that is a lifestyle choice

weak mortar
#

I’d really like to see it still be available to new players/characters under lvl 20 or something. It’s such a huge help when you’re still figuring out what you’re doing.

lusty sedge
weak mortar
hardy sedge
tacit gorge
#

Hot take - the Invoker a terrible crutch for new players. The experience should be fixed so that the game under level 20 is approachable without any outside help rather than masking the learning curve. Free/easy access to glow light a Christmas tree makes it hard to create any such balance.

I see the appeal (and have certainly take advantage of) as it pertains to alts of veterans who have already gone through the leveling process and are just trying to power level through - insofar as GS allows anyway. But to me that still speaks more to an issue with how long it takes to level in GS. Spelltanking isn't the right way to solve any of those things.

Also re: moving to FWI - the Invoker isn't a mechanical advantage, it's a QoL system. People got spellups long before invoker came around. All it does is artificially "force" new players to be in the Landing, or Landing Adjacent - leaving a whole chunk of the world largely ignored. It was conceived as a patch to resolve a system-level problem. If that has been solved, let it go the way of the dodo

alpine quarry
#

Very eloquently put and I agree wholeheartedly

tacit gorge
#

Despite being initially apprehensive, I actually have come to appreciate what spell sever has done to reduce my reliance on outside spells.

night lodge
#

I've only used the invoker one time, because I don't have access to it in the east or on KF. If it is available full-time on FWI, I'd probably make use of it once a week at best because my playtime is limited. But it wouldn't alter how I would hunt. I'd just die less on low level characters. That said however, I have all my low level character set to max Ascension because I don't want to cap anymore characters. Cap is boring.

steady hinge
#

That's how it was in my head

steady hinge
weak mortar
steady hinge
#

I remember when the invoker broke.....a while ago now .....Dreaven attendance shot way up

frigid niche
#

Disappointed we aren’t using the term FWInvoker, it’s right there

chrome bear
#

I still can't imagine worrying about how many crutches a new, old or returning player is using or not using to get through hunting. People have been hand wringing about spellups for almost 27+ years and it's still a thing.

Also, the invoker obviously not a problem if it's just being gated behind "pay us more for it." It's just a problem no one was paying more for it.

There was a thousand ways to fix this and the worst solution was chosen

frigid niche
#

I think most simply the least effort way was chosen

chrome bear
#

Least effort way would have just been to leave it alone tbh

gusty crest
lusty sedge
#

isn't that pretty much spell sever/mana storm?

gusty crest
#

also lets move gift of lumnis to premium only and charge 1m per week for it.

starts on his back in my day rant

re: archsenex listen its called branding....we dont want to use those words people dont like them.

faint spear
#

Frankly, if you want to help new players, I'd rather see leveling accelerated to a tremendous degree

frigid niche
#

Gotta imagine the game sees some attrition when a more casual player hits the point that it’s like “oh I might get a level a month now”

lusty sedge
#

they could double leveling pace and it would still be considered glacial. It's currently continental.

faint spear
#

The proposition for any new player is bonkers to think about.

  • No graphics
  • Typing interface
  • Obtuse commands
  • Best case capped outcome is 48+ mos
  • Treasure system offers no rewards worth having.
  • Very limited tutorials
  • Most critical information is NOT found in game
  • Discord-mandated support structure
  • Near necesarry reliance on ;lich
  • etc
chrome bear
#

No, the problem is too many spells.

lusty sedge
#

(The discord support isn't strange, that's the most modern part of the game. And relying on third-party tools actually is pretty modern too...)

faint spear
#

What...you don't think we need +DS version 1, 2 and 3?

faint spear
gusty crest
#

I love that we talk about new players like they're flooding the gates to play this game.

frigid niche
#

The problem with accelerating leveling is then people will just bottleneck the capped hunting areas a lot faster, and the post cap exp/common tier ascension grind isn’t for everyone, I imagine you’d just get more complaints from people who cap and get bored

lusty sedge
#

well yeah, but talking about what YOU want is greedy. you have to find a proxy so that your demands are now virtuous

faint spear
gusty crest
#

The answer is now let me roll an alt 🤷

faint spear
#

I am not rolling up an alt to spend 3+ years leveling another character

chrome bear
#

I've literally told friends "if you get to level 20, I'll give you a fully geared level 100 character" about a dozen times over the years. I roll a character with them and level with them.

I've never had to give away a character, and it's not because they just got so attached to what they rolled. New players are largely just players from 20y ago coming back lol

haughty relic
#

They need to offer GS to schools as a way to teach typing. Educational game lol

hardy sedge
#

Only if you want kids shorthanding "analyze" to.. well... in school.

gusty crest
#

its not really about spending 3 years to play with just this one new person its spending enough time with them to get there feet wet.

faint spear
#

Well....I have a plan for an upcoming video. I'm going to try and get 2 personal friends who I've known for 20+ years and know about 'Gemstone' because they say me play it in college a ton. I'm going to try and get them to give it a week of playing every night for an hour or so and then interview them on their experiences.

gusty crest
#

Theres nothing from stopping you from coming to tackle kobs for them and RP too.

steady hinge
chrome bear
#

The most recent person I tried that with got to 20, but they tapped out when seeing the prices of items at DR. They were like "I could see myself liking the grind, but I'm never going to pay $1000 for a sword "

Me:hides my morning star behind my back

"....me neither"

faint spear
#

I would have resented players doing that for me when I was leveling. I DID resent it. I don't want to be babysat. I don't want to be carried.

abstract mesa
gusty crest
#

honestly dumping time into a better NPE is already a failed experiment

faint spear
gusty crest
#

friends and discord are prob the best avenues we have for NPE in the end

frigid niche
#

Hearing that Finnia had scope crept, after like seven years since announcement, to the point that it’s too confusing for new players had me legit howling

faint spear
# gusty crest that's like your opinion man.gif

yeah, i fully understand my gemstone player arc. Make the game as hard as possible, be stupidly stubborn about every choice. Refuse help. Refuse advice. Refuse to alter your approach. Wait 20 years. Oh crap, all the bad ideas were now good idea. Galaxy Brain

gusty crest
scenic grail
#

I wasn't even involved!

faint spear
gusty crest
#

Finnia could have been half of landing and the out laying hunting zones with a much better sprite quest, that in the end dumps you in the real landing

#

but for some reason when typically the answer is nerf something is easier than fixing 100 other things we went down the road of no no no build a new continent thats removed from the rest of the game

hardy sedge
#

Isn't there like an alternate landing that was used to familiarize new players from ages and ages ago?

faint spear
#

huh, is there?

steady hinge
gusty crest
somber dew
# hardy sedge Isn't there like an alternate landing that was used to familiarize new players f...

Not that I recall. We did have a single room "Alley" that we'd dump new players into. When we launched on AOL I cloned the alley into 10 different "copies" and had the character manager dump no more than 7 (9? no idea why I picked such an odd number) in the alley at once before going to the next.

I had a little notification that would tell me as alleys would fill up during Banner hours, so I could tell the hosts and/or mentors "New Players filling up the Alleys! DEPLOY! DEPLOY!"

hardy sedge
#

Hmmm.. I must be thinking of something else, then. I thought it might've been a mentor tool.

lusty sedge
#

I believe penannt chase happens in clones of landing

hardy sedge
#

Maybe it was a host thing! I just vaguely remember hearing about a mirrored Landing for new players to learn things, heh. Like some sort of weird twilight zone place that is but isn't really there.

I think it required a mentor (or a host?) to actually bring you there, though.

odd pebble
#

If I'm going to be charged to use the invoker, then i'd like to see the invoker available on a regular schedule that makes sense. Right now, it literally makes no sense and isnt really convenient to any of us that are not on the east coast. Also, the name thing... Lithyia is so easy... Lith-EE-uh. Boom. Done.

scenic locust
#

I missed the new player talk.

I still think people miss the frustration of new players, considering many of y'all have played for so long.

icy knoll
steady hinge
#

My bard alt is zero fun to play without spells....to the point that if I am not running an MA group large enough to spell him up I will just log out.

scenic locust
#

And uhh...I capped in less than 2 years.

steady hinge
#

Now me logging out is no great loss....I will likely log something else on ...but if a new person or returning person logs out like that enough ...they just stay gone.

tacit gorge
#

I'm definitely aware of new player frustrations, my stance is that a boatload of outside spells isn't a good solution. Especially a boatload of spells on a fixed schedule. It should be possible for anyone to log in at any time and just play without having to find a full spell up. (I actually think it is, but I definitely understand that playing on "easy" is also a desirable differentiation)

scenic locust
#

The grind wouldn't be so bad if there was a way to fit in. It's REAAAAAAALLY hard to do so.

If I didn't have Iskandr or Draelor? I would have left. The spells are a frustration, but not as bad since there are ways to get spelled up.

chrome bear
#

2 years is ~10,350 xp a day -> Almost double Lumnis. At Lumnis only pace, it is ~4 years.

faint spear
#

if I wanted to get a friend with a Mac to try gemstone, how playable is that? Wrayth doesn't work right?

steady hinge
#

I have played on a mac....you can still lich

scenic locust
eternal tendon
chrome bear
#

Or being told they are playing wrong for using too many spells....

faint spear
steady hinge
#

It's better than the web client

chrome bear
#

I've quit plenty of games that were fun in other ways but the progression was trash. I am pretty sure I am not unique

scenic locust
#

I think the other part is status. Like, people have reputations and names for doing stuff in this game. And there's always a push to revere them or storylines that go to them.

If you're a small fry and you feel you can't get in, you will eventually tap out. There's a lot of resiliency needed for people who want to be a part of a story and can't because of many obstacles.

steady hinge
#

Honestly I think the pay to win scares as many people off as progression pace.

icy knoll
#

#1: All new characters should start in the landing. It's the easiest town to start in IMO, and the busiest in terms of optics. Allow Premium+ to still choose a town, because by then you should know what you're doing, but all truly new characters should start in the landing. Finnia was great in theory, but it's too late to support that kind of starting area because it's going to be empty and that's a bad look for a game trying to attract people.

#2: The Invoker should just go. It's a bad habit to teach people to rely on spell tanking. Because if they can't spell tank, what do they do?

#3: The self-cast + MIU/AS spells system is the best way, IMO, to create balance. Up to pre-cap, base creature AS/DS around a self-cast character (Everywhere has rift-like numbers). Allow the "massies" for nostalgia, but everything else goes self-cast + MIU/AS + within a group spells.

#4: If the Invoker stays, just sell the "red pill" at the adventurer's guild, for silvers. Available 24/7, in every town, for silvers. (If the red pill, is the invoker spellup, like I assume it is, I don't actually know.)

scenic locust
steady hinge
#

I love these suggestions from the MA crowd that leave spell ups for MA groups but not everyone else....

icy knoll
#

No, not full spell ups. Group spells, not all spells are group spells.

soft dragon
#

Mechanically, I had the most fun in the early to mid levels when new hunting grounds were unique and fun. But a lot of this glosses over storylines and day to day interactions and exploration that could be huge draws. There are tons of little secret and nit so secret "unmarked quests" that could entertain some people for a long time. Even invasions are better at level control so its not all max level critters all the time.
Comedy NPE = New Pie Experience

gusty crest
#

oh Alastir is here now 🍿

tacit gorge
steady hinge
#

Your MA group that is never ungrouped will have a significant leg up on sometimes solo players with a move to group only spells.

scenic locust
#

Speaking of the MA crowd, that's another problem. And it's a major problem that people don't want to say the quiet part out loud.

The idea of having multiple accounts, which is your right, has made GS a game where people are just self-reliant. This often stifles interaction.

chrome bear
#

I am not sure why it matters how someone else enjoys their PvE experience.......

icy knoll
odd pebble
#

If you dont like the invoker, dont use the invoker. If I'm going to be charged for the invoker, then i'd like it to be available on a schedule that is frequent and makes sense.

scenic locust
#

I'm not saying that can't enjoy their PvE experience. They CAN.

But to Alastir's point, the "finding a friend" is pretty hard when most of the friends ain't even responding...or at the screen.

And that doesn't include people that aren't social.

coral lantern
#

It's taken me a year and three tries to get my significant other to feel comfortable playing GS. And that is with me literally in the room with him as he learns, and an existing network of friends/characters to help.

What is desperately needed for new players is the most basic, hand holding explanation of what a MUD is. Making the logic leap from modern MMOs to text games is just so hard. If we can't show them the absolute basics, then leveling speed does not matter. They give up in confusion and frustration before that would even be a factor.

bright palm
#

I have the most fun in the immediately capped era. It feels like the character finally becomes almost “fully trained”

gusty crest
icy knoll
#

If creatures were designed with a self-cast spells only list of spells, the numbers should come down, and you shouldn't be required to have all these spells to begin with.

Think through this logically, before you rage out.

odd pebble
gusty crest
#

I dont care either way but if they wanted to limit how many time per day you can get it, then being like 4 x per day on your schedule seems the best approach.

scenic locust
#

It's not just the learning curve. It's the criticism you get for not mastering the learning curve.

People be like, "GS is easy," to someone who can't stow their gear.

But some of y'all been playing for decades.

icy knoll
#

People are only like then when someone pretends to understand mechanics, but doesn't, and throws around his opinion. (Wrongly)

chrome bear
#

It's been 20 years since GSIV has come out and creature tuning has happened sparingly in some areas and not at all in most. Why are we saying this is the most reliable way to "fix" a problem you have with how someone else plays?

tacit gorge
gusty crest
#

no one

scenic locust
#

LOTS of people. I've EXPERIENCED it.

icy knoll
#

Because you're opinionated, but you don't understand what you're saying when you share your 500 word essay of your opinion.

coral lantern
#

It's been a trial, Lithy 😆 I have the advantage that he is/was a Neverwinter Nights player so he loves roleplay and also is familiar with the idea of janky old games.

And yet, still a massive learning curve just understanding text games. Our struggle is we have to present a whole genre, not just our game, a lot of the time.

gusty crest
#

anyone who thinks this game is easy is suffering from some major dunning-kruger effect

chrome bear
#

GS is literally so easy you can automate it into oblivion once you understand the mechanics. But if someone else is struggling to pick it up - my experience with the game has no bearing with their experience and it shouldn't have any bearing on it

scenic locust
odd pebble
icy knoll
proud seal
#

Let's refrain from personal attacks and keep it civil.

bright palm
#

It kinda seems like y’all are talking past each other’s points maybe. GS combat is pretty easy, and very forgiving in terms of penalties for death. The systems are very complex, though. We’ve been attempting to solve several of the black box systems for decades

steady hinge
#

People in GS be like "you shouldn't need the invoker to hunt" then run off an run a 5 man MA group.

icy knoll
#

I have multiple characters, who don't hunt together.

scenic locust
chrome bear
#

"You shouldn't need to use spells to hunt"

Equip weapon they spent over $2k on, wearing $900 of armor and a $600 shield

tacit gorge
#

Why can't both be true? It should be the case that you do not need outside spells or expensive gear. That doesn't mean I think they should be deleted entirely either.

icy knoll
#

What you don't understand, is that the game shouldn't be designed to REQUIRE you to have INVOKER spells.

scenic locust
#

And what you don't understand is that the game shouldn't be designed to require a LOT of things.

We are waaaaaaaay past that point, now.

steady hinge
tacit gorge
#

Again, Invoker doesn't provide anything unique that isn't already available to anyone who wants it. It just does it in a bad way, IMO

gusty crest
#

if the invoker lets people have fun, who cares. Some people want challenge some people dont. Some people dont want to waste 20 minutes of there play time getting a raise. whatever its a pve game.

chrome bear
icy knoll
#

I mean, they have to clear their currently full plate before they can do anything.

chrome bear
#

The plate has been full for 2 decades. Some bandaids are ok.

tacit gorge
scenic locust
# tacit gorge Again, Invoker doesn't provide anything unique that isn't already available to a...

Respectfully, I've been in those crowds, asking for spells back in the day, asking for hunting help, asking for fun and to hang and whatever. And yet what is happening right now, is people are CRITICIZING the people that have not been able to get in through efforts of asking for spells or help, and then have resorted to using the invoker, telling them they don't need it or shouldn't rely it.

The disconnect is AMAZING.

icy knoll
#

I'll just cancel my accounts if they make everything spell sever after selling me X/days for cash.

gusty crest
scenic locust
#

I'd be down with a full game spell sever, or more spell sever places.

icy knoll
#

Of course you would, you don't want to do KS or use spells, as a rogue.

scenic locust
#

I like to adapt and use what I can when needed for situations and have options?

This is bad?

icy knoll
#

That's not what I'd call it.

scenic locust
#

My avenue of going this route is because as a rogue, prior to KS, it was often said that a rogue HAD to learn spells for viability. KS flips it on its head. But it's all or nothing.

I don't want to do that. Call it what you want. It's my choice. You can criticize it all you want.

icy knoll
#

I think if you played more than a Rogue, you would understand why a full spell sever game wouldn't work. Not every class can go into hiding, and use UAC with a massive pushdown/crit additive for easy kills.

craggy bear
#

I'm going to keep saying this and hope it gets some traction:

  • Invoker stays in Landing, charges 10k per use. More consistent schedule. Becomes a great silver drain.
  • Invoker is free for anyone under lvl 20
  • FWI has a 2nd invoker that is free as a premium benefit

~ Although, this is the coming from someone who doesn't use the invoker.

chrome bear
#

Spells for me not for thee

scenic locust
icy knoll
#

Let's make more areas that require all the spells. You can adapt, and if you don't want to, that's fine.

If you find it too hard, don't go there.

scenic locust
faint spear
#

I actually wonder if a sliding scale invoker wouldn't have been a better implementation. The full bucket of spells early on, with less and less spells at higher levels.

gusty crest
#

Anyone else have a good laugh at the invoker as a silver drain at 10k a pop targeting people who we dont need to target silver drains on?

faint spear
craggy bear
icy knoll
#

Because they have to remove the invoker, but they don't want a full stage meltdown, so they push it as a premium perk for silvers.

tacit gorge
# scenic locust Respectfully, I've been in those crowds, asking for spells back in the day, aski...

I'm certainly not oblivious to the fact that some members of the community aren't great, which is true of any community - and that sucks. Also keenly aware of peoples desire for self-reliance (see: Larton, locksmith pool, x-days, alt accounts, etc). Since we're going with "back in the day" - a pocket wizard is probably one of the most widely used variations on this, ever since I started a few decades ago. But wizards others were able to sell spellups once upon a time, outside of that people managed with massies in the park (or equivalent).

I do want to be clear that I'm not critical of anyone using the invoker - I've already stated I use it on all my low level alts anyway. I'd be stupid not to. It makes the game loads easier. So does MA, as has been pointed out (speaking of people being critical of how someone plays.. 😬)

At the end of the day, my position is probably most closely compared to sorcerers and 711. Meaning in an ideal world, with infinite dev resources, there are a thousand better ways to solve the problem - but maybe until that can happen invoker is fine. All I'm trying to point out is that it is not a good long term way to approach the challenges it supposedly addresses.

odd pebble
#

It's got the double-dipping feeling... the only place i like double-dip is with my ice cream.

bright palm
#

I imagine KS would still do well in an ascension zone designed for full spellups

gusty crest
faint spear
chrome bear
#

I dont even use the invoker, I just thought the change was bad. It's either a problem that needs to be removed or it isn't. Moving it behind a paywall indicated it isn't a problem but it is an admission of value - perceived or not

odd pebble
icy knoll
#

It's a problem. Moving it to FWI makes it so they can say it's still available, you just have to pay for the perk, which either limits how big the invoker problem stays, or gives them a revenue boost.

"We didn't remove the invoker, we just wanted to add value to our Premium offering."

gusty crest
#

you had me at ice cream but you lost me at RP. I'll go console myself with some real ice cream now.

faint spear
#

Honest question. Why does invoker 'need' to go? I'm asking from ignorance,

gusty crest
#

yells at cloud Because!

icy knoll
opal arrow
somber dew
soft spindle
scenic locust
# tacit gorge I'm certainly not oblivious to the fact that some members of the community aren'...

I think I may gone too hard on you on the viewpoints, but I'm really passionate about this because I still remember those newbie days and how frustrating it was. I did have a lot of older people spell me up and even go with me on hunts. But not everyone has that.

Not everyone has the ability to MA, or to afford MA. I think the problem is that in GS, there seems to be a lot of extra things a person has to do to just get to a decent position. And then, the disconnect is further added by folks who criticize it with facile ideas like, "You shouldn't need the invoker."

In truth, while I agree with you, I would add that there's a LOT about GS that are not good long-term ways to approach things. But I figure people invokering serves as a way to maximize their time and get in where they fit in.

Love your points, though. Mad props.

gusty crest
silk dune
#

Rabble rabble rabble

icy knoll
faint spear
scenic locust
faint spear
#

I don't know how we can call players using their game-given abilities exploits, honestly.

odd pebble
bright palm
#

Divergence was an attempt at a compromise in the release pattern for content/rewards/reviews that didn’t pan out. It seemed like a good idea at the time with the pace of releases, but it just wasn’t practical

scenic locust
gusty crest
faint spear
#

I think alot of confusion still exists from the simultaneous release of Sever, PSM3, Divergence and HW. It made for alot of misconceptions about what was doing what and how, and who was getting effected.

faint spear
tacit gorge
#

TBH I'd almost prefer a difficulty system. Maybe that could present itself as something as basic as:

DIFFICULTY NORMAL: baseline
DIFFICULTY HARD: -30 DS, -15 AS, -15 TD```

With some reasonable cooldown on changing and whatnot, and maybe level thresholds where they stop applying.
icy knoll
silk dune
#

Id rather slow down the level 1 to 100 and drop the amount of experience needed at cap for tps to 1000 exp instead of 2500. Ascension experience needs to be dropped from 50000 to 10000 or 25000.

Ascension negates a lot of expensive gear and enhancive requirements but its so time consuming most people are looking at 5 to 10 years to make any meaningful progress.

scenic locust
faint spear
#

We still have 2s or 1s polearm users.

gusty crest
#

please dont use facts and logic. thank you.

opal arrow
# haughty relic They need to offer GS to schools as a way to teach typing. Educational game lol

So, just a non-sequitur here... My youngest child, growing up in a house where two adults played this game, had to create a game for her class. She and four friends decided to roll up free accounts and play the game at my table. It lasted two weeks. The boys were highly engaged but wanted to play on headsets. She quit because "The Penguin in this frozen town keeps coming up to me and crying piteously for food. And I can't feed it. This is so frustrating and stupid." She did think it was funny when her dad told her to lick the mule statue, though. In the end, they all quit because she did.

scenic locust
#

And the statement has still been made. None of that changes that situation.

If we can look at that and can't come to an agreement on what a standard should be, where things might be too skewed, which is often the case with GS, then it won't matter.

But there are things that are mad broken in GS. The fact that eventual nerfs have been talked about but tentatively and with hesitation confirms it.

opal arrow
#

I was really far back...

gusty crest
faint spear
#

I should go back to Caligos while Thandiwe is distracted...

tacit gorge
#

We've had a busy morning 😆

opal arrow
silk dune
#

I dont think anything is broken per se unless you add in a couple thousand dollars of mechanical items that gives the appearance of something being broken.

Any profession in basic non scripted gear will have it rough in certain hunting grounds and against certain opponents.

icy knoll
#

No no, everything is broken, except for how I do things.

scenic locust
icy knoll
#

I try not to read what you say.

abstract mesa
#

Let’s not break hearts.

scenic locust
silk dune
#

A bard swinging in 1 sec with a polearm is going to have fairly trash ds/td as an example unless theyre invokered to the max and stick to spell burst hunting grounds.

icy knoll
#

He plays a Rogue, he knows.

abstract mesa
scenic locust
lusty sedge
steady hinge
#

To be clear I think MA groups are fine and fun, they just do what the invoker does and makes content easier....the invoker tends to help more on the low end while MA kind of helps across the level spectrum....a well tuned MA group is neat to watch or even well made two character combos

mental anchor
#

Finally listening to SoE.. @robust marlin sounds so familiar. Probably the accent, unless he does some kinda podcast or tech stuff...

calm meadow
chrome bear
mental anchor
#

giant MA groups get annoying, mostly when they're resting in a room you end up in a lot..like the locksmith pools. They bothered me a lot two decades ago..now I'm kinda meh.. Also the scroll when they grab bounties

icy knoll
robust marlin
opal arrow
steady hinge
#

Can't you feed it fish?

abstract mesa
#

Now I’m upset about it. And the emaciated horse.

opal arrow
#

I don't think so...

mental anchor
steady hinge
#

Poor starving penguin...

hearty wedge
#

He's been 'starving' for what? 30 years... I think it's an act at this point. It's like a cat with an "empty" food bowl

calm meadow
opal arrow
#

Yea...

#

I think about the street urchin in Solhaven all the time.. he's like Peter Pan.

#

I want someone to grab him by the ear and drag him to the school house...

#

Or jail?

#

Cause he's 30+ now?

faint spear
#

I've got a fleet he can work for.

scenic locust
#

Time works funky in GS

opal arrow
#

I think people would be upset if I removed the urchin.

scenic locust
mental anchor
#

invoker allows me mostly do stupid bigshot settings pre level-70... but I also get bored with that after about a month, so it really doesn't affect me.. That said, it will be interesting to see how it affects population / new players.. I'm sure there's new player metrics that are followed by GMs.

I came back after it's been there awhile, so I never knew that it was there due to some kinda bug debugging. It feels as the player base dropped the existing players had to become more self-sufficient (or maybe it was the other way around?).. depart/salve vs getting rescued, herbs vs empaths, etc... thought it was in a similar vain..

ofc, I have no idea what a majority of the playerbase does in the game nor what new players do. I doubt I get exposed to more than the same 50-100 people.

gusty crest
tacit gorge
abstract mesa
#

Yeah, and I’m upset that Maodan is upset.

grand lava
#

if you want to make everyone feel old then do a pass and update all the NPCs.

the penguin is dead. it died, because you never fed it.

she's a flower woman now.

raging thrak...dead. the grizzled old warrior has taken his place.

hearty wedge
scenic locust
#

I'm willing to put in a silver fund for people to get their eventual MH invoker fix.

We can even do commercials.

"For only 55 silvers a day, you can get @odd pebble the spells she needs."

We can even have "In the arms of a disir" sang in the background.

abstract mesa
hearty wedge
opal arrow
odd pebble
mental anchor
#

As a generality, I find that any change will cause complaining.. especially if it's deemed as either a 'nerf' or a 'boost' to a profession you don't play (why did they ignore meeee!). I hope the GMs get good therapy to deal with us! 😆

scenic locust
#

Funding newbies spells can be a GREAT WAY to make new players feel welcome.

Unless you're cheap. Then you can just spell up people.

abstract mesa
#

Are we at the part where we can joke Thandiwe? If it’s too soon, let me know.

opal arrow
#

Why does that fill me with dread, Leff?

#

Do I need to call my therapist first?

faint spear
#

Caligos is lovely this time of year...

scenic locust
opal arrow
abstract mesa
#

I know for a fact you wouldn’t be the first person to talk about Gemstone in therapy… because of reasons.

odd pebble
faint spear
scenic locust
gusty crest
odd pebble
soft dragon
#

I skipped a lot to say we need more gross ice cream toppings. That's the ontent the game needs

scenic locust
soft dragon
#

Nah, we'd partner up. Then one day I'd backstab him or at least try

scenic locust
tame osprey
#

The backstabbing implies otherwise!

scenic locust
#

Not when you call your shot. I appreciate the telegraph

faint spear
# odd pebble Whaaaaaaaaat?

The sound of a low, brief hiss from somewhere below the floorboards is followed by a sudden snarl of anger. A moment later, the sounds cease altogether.

I wouldn't come here...

odd pebble
scenic locust
odd pebble
scenic locust
tame osprey
#

I basically agree with maodan that the invoker is not really a design so much as an abdication

#

And moving it to FWI does make it available in the east which people have asked for repeatedly

#

It is unfortunate that it becomes a premium benefit though

soft dragon
#

Is this the right forum to bring up once again destroying the east? A good storyline

tame osprey
#

Also I do like spell sever and they should just make more mid level zones have that haha

#

1-100 spell sever

soft dragon
#

Make spell sever a 1700 circle spell everyone has access to so it deals damage and then people will look back and say "why did everyone hate this"

hardy sedge
#

I feel like the "perpetually children" NPCs aren't necessarily the exact same person. there are lots of flower girls in the Landing, or there have been over the years. there are lots of urchins in Solhaven with red hair (75% of Elanthia has red hair so that checks out); the NPC we see is just any one of them on a given point in time.

sly beacon
#

I think spell sever is a reasonable mechanic, and if zones are balanced for it, then it works. I think trying to rebalance all old content is ridiculous and WAY too much work that should be spent on other things.

I also think spell sever in lower content pigeonholes players probably too much into specific "optimal" builds that can eliminate a lot of the "fun" many people have in being able to do so many different things, so just making it everywhere for that reason alone seems very counter-productive to the idea of increasing people's enjoyment of the game.

bright palm
#

Spell sever just needs scalability like virtually every other system

soft dragon
#

If it scaled then it's good to introduce it earlier as a way to ease people into new things

tame osprey
#

I didn’t mean “spell sever everywhere” or I would’ve said that. I was suggesting a hunting pathway to cap that runs through spell sever areas!

#

Also I was mostly kidding!

bright palm
#

Someday we will have enhancive sever

scenic locust
#

I said I would be fine with it. But I prefer the alternative of more sever zones, which seems to be the push as new zones come out.

I'm kinda surprised that Den of Rot wasn't sever, honestly. Wasn't that like 2019 when it came out?

icy knoll
tame osprey
#

You don’t go to mid level zones!

spiral bane
icy knoll
#

Did they say what the Red Pill will do? Is it an invoker spellup?

scenic locust
#

That was the impression I got.

icy knoll
#

Then all they need to do is sell a red pill at the adventurers guild for silvers. Instant invoker in every town available 24/7.

(But they won't, because the goal isn't to have the invoker 24/7 available everywhere.)

tame osprey
#

Don’t call it the red pill lol

#

also yes

chrome bear
#

(unless you buy simucoins)

tame osprey
#

I think the invoker pill should probably be made pretty available to low level characters and that might help with the whole thing

icy knoll
#

I wonder if this was just a longplay against Dreavens patreon.

Dreaven starts mass spells every (other?) hour in the landing for all. Offers on demand for payment via Patreon.
Invoker arrives to kill his business.
Offer new invoker pill for Simucoins.
Pull invoker and move to Premium perk, offering multiple on demand invoker options for cash.

scenic locust
#

Maybe in a starter pack for low level characters?

haughty relic
#

I should have asked in SoE how GMs balance non-spell barrier/sever areas with invoker always available..... knowing that those poor lvl 35 critters are going to be swinging at ppl with 2x their normal defense.

#

Have there been any "new areas" that don't have spell sever or some spell barrier?

bright palm
#

Does OSA count

lusty sedge
#

they'll be giving all critters dispel flares at the 3x level going forward

haughty relic
scenic locust
#

Empath services? Spells in a bottle?

faint spear
odd pebble
humble cape
#

Yep

rain dawn
faint spear
humble cape
#

Or like the time I logged in an alt some time after THINGS HAPPENED and was on the Wavedancer in Plat and it was A) at the bottom of the ocean and B) on fire.

humble cape
odd pebble
faint spear
humble cape
#

Don't make them turn the sweeper back on!

faint spear
#

If only i had some silver! That Imflass jack-blade could have been mine!

rain dawn
icy knoll
#

Then we can just remove the invoker. No problems.

chrome bear
#

We could also leave it, no problems.

civic escarp
#

A claim box with an upgradeable? item that gives you x per day red invoker pills. The item and possibly the red pills should be attuned.

craggy bear
#

I think we need to unpack Alastir's deep disdain for the Invoker. I feel like there's some trauma down there that need to get to the root of. We're here to help my man.

icy knoll
frigid niche
#

Future discord disputes to be resolved in Dark Souls 3 PVP

chrome bear
#

I was a self spelled Paladin in 4x gear. I think that's GS hard mode.

icy knoll
#

We can't trivialize content. It should provide a challenge. amirite

frigid niche
#

Every profession should receive royalty payments for their spells every time the invoker casts them on someone

chrome bear
#

I dont care if people MA, use crazy p2w gear, use bad gear on purpose, use too many spells, don't use any spells, only use a few spells and any combination of the previous and probably most things I forgot. It doesnt effect me

icy knoll
#

You should suffer, and enjoy it.

abstract mesa
#

That’s what discord is for.

alpine quarry
civic escarp
craggy bear
#

a long long time ago, i remember using an obsidian longsword, because i thought obsidian was such a cool material.... nevermind the -10 or -5 enchant or something it carried

robust marlin
#

I absolutely hunted for a while with obsidian gear... It dropped from an invasion! It had to be cool!

proud seal
#

I prefer alexandrite to obsidian

robust marlin
#

(Then I'm pretty sure I shattered it on a gargoyle)

icy knoll
#

Did the super secret Q&A explain how the enhancive reroller was going to work?

If I have a +10 to something, am I rerolling for +10 in something else, or just something else random.
If random, can we just sit there and reroll +1s and maybe get +20s?

chrome bear
#

There was mention from an envoy that it was a full reroll of a single stat on an enhancive, magnitude and stat/skill.

So your +1 swimming could be +20 brawling and your +17 edged could be +2 perception...etc etc

solar turret
#

It was dont use high end + gear. It doesnt promise a same to different bonus modifier. Its sounded like it had a range scale but was still wildly random.

scenic locust
#

It's hilarious.

#

Like, if it were me, and I know I'm behind but lunch break is on, so, just put the invoker in MH, run the 10k price, and make it free for people below level 20 or something.

opal arrow
icy knoll
#

I hope it's not completely random, because that sounds like a waste of money. I'd prefer to keep the number associated with the thing, and just reroll the thing. Or have options, reroll it all, reroll the #, reroll the stat/skill.

sly beacon
#

The intent seemed not to reroll good things, but say you have a plus 10 edged and plus 10 swimming, you reroll the swimming to try and get something useful.

craggy bear
icy knoll
#

Yeah, I'd want to keep the +10 part of the swimming, and just reroll the swimming. Not reroll the +10 swimming and get +1 climbing.

sly beacon
#

It doesn't reroll the whole item just one enhansive on the item, so you only use it for bad stuff to try and make it better

craggy bear
icy knoll
#

I'm sure some people will like the gambling. I thought we were getting actual value for the spend.

steady hinge
#

Stat rerolls gambling is like table stakes in a lot of games now

sly beacon
haughty relic
#

Re-roll should be categories or atleast a level range, like rerolling my super rare enhancive with level 72 restriction should be better than rerolling a +1 perception garbage item

chrome bear
#

It was explicitly referred to as a silver drain....

haughty relic
#

POE does rerolling/crafting item stats/benefits very well but you need like PHD in the details or watch some pro do it on youtube

icy knoll
chrome bear
#

That's literally the point, yea

icy knoll
#

Sounds like a waste. I already have a max enhancive set. I imagine most other people with any amount of money do as well. So who is this for exactly?

spiral bane
#

There's always another stat or skill to enhance!

chrome bear
#

I have a ton of money and my enhancive set will never be done lol

scenic locust
#

I mean it would be cool for the number to stay, but the skill to change. But who knows?

icy knoll
#

Have fun maxing out your influence I guess

spiral bane
#

Here I am genuinely hedging against MIU/AS potentially providing more spell sever slots...

scenic locust
icy knoll
#

They'll add spell sever slots when they want money for X/days again. You have to nerf, give time, then unnerf via cash buyin.

spiral bane
chrome bear
#

It was always going to be something like:

Very very very expensive, but only reroll skill/stat

Very Very expensive, but only reroll number

Very expensive, but reroll both

Expensive, reroll all skills/stats

Affordable, reroll all magnitudes and skills/stats

Cheap, reroll everything including enhancive count

steady hinge
icy knoll
spiral bane
#

As long as it's not like Diablo 4 😄

chrome bear
#

Did you think it was going to be a free reroll to only give you a bigger number....?

tame osprey
#

Literally we never got any information about the reroller’s implementation until this chat

#

And yes, the design is for those who have a lot of silver and are willing to gamble it

icy knoll
#

I thought I could take my +10 to thing and reroll the thing part, and keep the +10. So I got VALUE for my spend.

haughty relic
spiral bane
#

I wouldn't worry too much about the reroller details. It sounded like they weren't nailed down

tame osprey
#

Very reasonable to have your analysis be “oh that sounds like a bad value proposition”

craggy bear
tame osprey
#

That is generally how gambling works

steady hinge
#

How many options are there for "thing"

tame osprey
#

I think it should probably remain a bad value proposition!

icy knoll
#

Sure, that's why you have this conversation now, so 5 years from now we can say, we told you so, before they code it and nobody likes how it works.

And no, I don't want gambling, or at least wildly unfavorable gambling.

spiral bane
#

If you want value, cast Deathrite Shaman or Baleful Strix

scenic locust
chrome bear
sly beacon
craggy bear
#

We're all kind of speculating here, and it's all still being worked on, so this is probably a moot conversation.... but during the fireside chat Sunday afternoon, it was:

  • This will be a silver drain (gambling)
  • This will reroll an entire stat line (ability and #)
  • This will not be for everyone, or for every item
tame osprey
#

If they want silver sinks for the billionaires they need to be fairly poor value propositions that still hold the potential of meaningful improvement

#

Seems well targeted in that light

icy knoll
#

I imagined it working something like Sylinar.

I choose a slot, I reroll what it enhances, but if I have a big boost (+10), I want to keep that big boost.
Not pay 1m+ or whatever high cost this is going to be and probably end up with +1 swimming.

This sounds like a complete waste of DEV time.

chrome bear
#

Basically, it's for stuff like my greaves:

  It provides a boost of 11 to Blunt Weapons Bonus.
    This enhancement may not be used by adventurers who have not trained 27 times.
    It provides a boost of 7 to Blunt Weapons Bonus.
    This enhancement may not be used by adventurers who have not trained 17 times.
    It provides a boost of 2 to Disarming Traps Bonus.
    This enhancement may not be used by adventurers who have not trained 1 times.
    It provides a boost of 5 to Dexterity Base.
    This enhancement may not be used by adventurers who have not trained 4 times.
    It seems to have several enhancive charges remaining.

I have a chance to make that 2 disarm useful. Or it stays useless.

tacit gorge
#

I'm not 100% clear why there'd be any expectation of reliably turning 15 swimming into 15 weapon skill, for example. That'd be absurdly broken.

steady hinge
#

lol

spiral bane
#

This gets into a really interesting conversation about what the appropriate cost of +1 enhancive is, and I don't think it's at all clear (e.g. if you judge it based on the cost of fusion vs the cost of Sylinar you're going to come up with different numbers). But I should be working!

icy knoll
#

Just price is accordingly. It would drain more silvers.

Also, enhancives are so common now. Who doesn't have a full set? Who is this really going to help?

tardy hill
#

it would be nice if it just did something like take the base value, -25%, and then roll for +-34%

chrome bear
#

I'd love for magnitude to stay and only reroll stat, I've got a +21 FA torc somewhere unless I pawned it.....

icy knoll
#

It should just cost more, to keep the bonus.

sly beacon
#

Wyrom said there might be other options that they could do later, like keep the numbers and reroll the skill or something, but they'd cost a lot more

steady hinge
#

but thats not how rerollers work....they suck up your silvers as you keep hoping for that perfect combination....even if your odds are abysmal

icy knoll
#

They work however you create them to work

tacit gorge
#

There's a reason Sylinar is so restrictive on what skills can be changed to another.

craggy bear
tame osprey
#

I’m gonna say here that it is fine for Alastir to express his feedback that he doesn’t like the design. It’s fine for others to express that they think the design is fine too! I’m not sure how productive it is to engage in a lengthy argument over whose feedback is valid

icy knoll
#

Only my feedback is valid.

tame osprey
#

I’ll put down that some have that view

gusty crest
icy knoll
#

My point is, if you want my silvers, you need to give me what I consider to be good value. And getting something random sounds really bad. Look at what duskruin enhancives are like now compared to originally, Trash. I have a full enhancive set, so you're offering me the chance to max out, what, influence or some other random stat that's not going to make any considerable difference? Why should I bother?

I'd rather have an expensive silver sink where I get something.

gusty crest
#

like that +12 FA is now +3 fire lore , the use case is basically you have an enhansive with some stuff you like and other stuff that doesnt do anything so you can try and make that stuff into something at least useful for you.

tacit gorge
#

FWIW I don't think the two stances are necessarily at odds. The roller as currently understood (fully random, silver drain) could coexist with another system that is pricier but has more control. Wyrom's enhancive combiner being the ultimate curation

gusty crest
icy knoll
#

I don't understand why people like gambling. 99% of the time it's a complete waste of time and money.

tame osprey
#

I am not a gambler, but there are probably some enhancive where I would say “well a totally random new enhancive would be better than +2 climbing”

gusty crest
#

yea I got a some stuff in my set that I'll do because why not, like all those random stats could be AGI sweet.

tame osprey
#

Maybe I’d drop one roll on it to get it to something more average value

#

If I get lucky great, if I don’t well it was +2 climbing

gusty crest
#

You got something else your spending silvers on? fill me in. because if I dont spend my silvers on books for pay events I end up with billions of silvers and nothing to do with them

civic escarp
icy knoll
#

Spend them on me daddy

tame osprey
#

I don’t engage in third party silver trading lol

#

Please don’t post those cash values for silver

tacit gorge
#

I'm going to cry+laugh when I finally get a reroll that I like - but the result of that good reroll is that I have to totally reconfigure my enhancive set because I'm now overflowing on X, making it even more expensive. Likely this situation will be preceded by mostly tears of failure.

icy knoll
#

I'm not selling silvers so I'm not violating the rules.

  1. No cash sales on the official Discord. This includes character/account sales.

Please learn the rules if you're going to moderate.

dense dome
#

If it'll be completely random, maybe give Sylinar an option to add a random enhancive to an existing piece. Otherwise, I hope there are tiers to rerolling stat vs number.

spiral bane
gusty crest
#

I mean doesnt simu basically put a cash value on silvers by selling things you can buy for dollars in event boxes?

tardy hill
#

tbf, i feel like i ran out of meaningful things to enhance with just swaps and swatches and some patient collecting

tacit gorge
#

I won't stop until I'm the strongest, wisest, most agile/intuitive/influential gnome that ever was

icy knoll
#

@tame osprey Why are you deleting messages that don't violate the discord rules?

#

It says I can't sell things for cash. It doesn't say anything about me discussing other people selling things and what they value them at.

craggy bear
gusty crest
#

What is a dude with sweet sweet yellow boots?

tame osprey
#

I feel like we've relitigated this cash/silver question like a bunch of times honestly, but I will ask for GM clarification because I agree that it would be better to be clearer about the boundaries here

#

and I will apologize if I overstepped!

icy knoll
#

Not if. I wasn't selling anything. What I said wasn't a violation of any rule.

I'd like opinions on what a fair silver cost is for this reroller. And those silvers have a monetary value. Both outside the game, and inside the game, via giftboxes, which provide event currency, which you can calculate the dollar cost of because they sell event currency for cash via simucoins.

scenic locust
soft dragon
tacit gorge
soft dragon
#

Hot take: what if the enhancive reroller lets you reroll the crumbly/persistant stat

chrome bear
#

Crumbly enhancives are unnecessarily stressful

craggy bear
soft dragon
#

No i 100% sincerely meant that you had to pay to coin flip the stat because:

  1. its funny
  2. its more in spirit with the game in general
  3. its really funny
  4. I have no skin in the game
icy knoll
#

Depending on the cost, I would take that gamble to get a cheap persistance. It's 10k event currency now, which costs you about $24.

(I am also not selling anything for cash here, Simutronics is.)

soft dragon
#

See, I already made a sale

craggy bear
icy knoll
#

Wow, you guys are pure evil.

haughty relic
#

Rerolling seems like it will either be insanely broken or so RNG'd that it is practically worthless

soft dragon
#

Every other game quoted of having similar systems also includes some sort of cost or locking effect that prevents THE SUPER BEST OUTCOMES
and if any system them came up with just allowed you to buy the best outcome you wanted, that would cause huge complaints too

tame osprey
#

do the other games really have locking effects

#

that's mean

steady hinge
#

Fallout doesn't

haughty relic
#

yeah the locking ingredients are expensive too, its a whole process and if u mess it up... RIP

soft dragon
#

Falicor kinda broke it out best in terms of what expectations should be
Fallout lets you reroll everything for a flat cost with no influence other than "good luck spinning everything that can apply to this item"
POE is hugely detailed but if you don't have ultra rare mats its all random or highly surgical
D4 locks you to only rerolling that one stat ever again

tame osprey
#

I don't think PoE should really be a comparable here, because of the vast complexity of PoE's crafting systems, but baseline PoE orb slamming is as non-influenced as you can get, yeah

haughty relic
#

The thing with POE is you use the reroller AND blacksmith to mathematically eliminate certain bad outcomes, it gets pretty intense with the right steps in the right order

faint spear
#

Its a pretty straightforwad concept in lots of existing games, especially mobile.

scenic locust
soft dragon
#

Yeah PoE is not really anywhere near a fair comparison since the entire economy is based around the items to change other items

tame osprey
#

if we added PoE metacrafting to GS4 I would quit the game

#

too much

#

there's a limit to how many spreadsheets I have time to make

chrome bear
faint spear
#

10k shards to permify is a value I'll never spend on. I just stay on top of my enhancives

scenic locust
steady hinge
#

Black Desert Online rerolling your fairy is so so so...painful

tame osprey
#

don't worry enhancive persistence is also at DR

haughty relic
#

The crumbly aspect of enhancives does seem like a massive fck U for using this system

tame osprey
#

it's at 3 of 4 events!

lusty sedge
tardy hill
#

why not just bard song unlock and then recharge at 2 charges? nothing ever risks popping

tame osprey
faint spear
scenic locust
lusty sedge
chrome bear
tame osprey
lusty sedge
#

yeah, I've put most of my enhancive administratia on hold pending luck talismen. You guys scare of Ivry I will be tracking people down

haughty relic
#

If there was a script that was smart enough to recharge them based on charge count.... that would be nice

faint spear
#

my pocket bard/poolpicker has earned her weight in silver by just slowly working up the juice to unlock all of my enhancives

tardy hill
lusty sedge
#

my loot singer compares every found enhancive to a DB with all my characters enhancives and free slots to find if there's available space for it to be allocated...

haughty relic
faint spear
#

A method to recharge that isn't bounty points would be nice too.

chrome bear
#

I just put the best one on and go vroom vroom

tardy hill
# haughty relic gimme gimme

it's a Wizard FE script though lol

but if you Bard unlock, it just lists the charges e.g. an engraved gold buckle (11/22 charges). it's a pretty trivial script add??

civic escarp
#

At the end of the year you can recharge enhancives for silver, aye? I stock up on the SimuCoin potions too.

humble cape
lusty sedge
#

I swear one of these years i will remember to recharge for silers

faint spear
#

Cash isn't a method imo. I dont like that at all. And silvers are fine, but it needs to be all year long and also at a rate that is competitive with secondary market for BPs

#

15 per bp would be about right for me. I'd love to be free of the Adv Guild for the rest of my life.

scenic locust
#

More blue-green potion drops?

tardy hill
#

the +300 instant absorb from the adv guild seems to be worth it? I generate vastly more BPs than my multiple enhancive sets take to recharge

chrome bear
#

Yea, I can keep my stuff charged pretty easily. I just am so lazy and stupid tbh...

lusty sedge
#

I have no qualms with the Adv Guild but like most of the games small issues, it fades into the background at scale

haughty relic
#

We need to have a enhancive showcase, "what's your full set recharge number?"... SK doesnt count

faint spear
grand lava
tardy hill
#

my +16 health recovery stickpin is 112k BP to recharge :/

haughty relic
#

53, you got every container enhanced?

scenic locust
#

I really was hoping for pickpocketing missions from the Adv Guild.

I figure THAT was the hardest part to code, IMO.

grand lava
tacit gorge
#

While I have spent a little bit on permifying my best enhancives just in case, I do think it's an extremely easy system to stay on top of. Monster bold messages when they're low, INV ENHAN LIST callouts for those depleting soon - ;crumbly. Between all of these I haven't lost a crumbly in years. And I have a lot of enhancives.

haughty relic
scenic locust
# haughty relic Naijin came back just to gasslight rogues with all the wonderful things for 6 mo...

I can refute that by saying he shouldn't have been driven off the first time, but that's my biased opinion and will open a can of worms.

The truth is, again, I don't blame him if he knew his value and took it with him, or that he had burnout and said, "Bump this." Personally, I hope he's happy and healthy. But I think he and staff should have told us from the jump instead of letting us post "Let him cook" memes for months knowing that he had been gone for a hot minute.

My controversial take.

haughty relic
icy knoll
#

He was never driven off.

scenic locust
#

I liked him. I liked his knowledge and thoughts of the game. I liked his regards to rogues (save for that they should only be stealth) and I loved the vision for PSM3 and the Rogue Services.

I just hope he left for good reasons, and not because of some tragedy.

And I think and feel he was driven off when things got heated the first time. Can't prove it. But how I feel.

icy knoll
#

He contributed to those conversations.

tardy hill
tacit gorge
#

I won't claim to know the actual reasons as to why Naijin left, but I can say that the discord community doesn't always foster the healthiest of communications, and I wouldn't blame someone wanting to distance themself from that. Either way, his absence is certainly to the detriment of GS, IMO. He is missed.

haughty relic
#

Did Naijin ever try his hand at coding any P2W event items or was he all general mechanics?

tacit gorge
#

He made the mechanical vambraces

icy knoll
#

My only issue with him is that he wanted to remake the game into his playstyle version. Which is great if you're a square. But half the game does not play a square profession.

haughty relic
#

Oh yeah, those were complex based on my recollection... kind of great if you picked the optimal build but they could be turned into lemons right if you did it wrong? Do they even still sell those?

raven compass
#

After catching up on all of that, one thing is clear:

The incoming new GMs need to make it possible to feed the penguin, the shaggy mutt, the tiny kitten, and whatever else wanders the streets!

nocturne valve
#

Feed them to whom?

civic escarp
sweet orbit
solar turret
#

Discord finds a way.

odd pebble
raven compass
#

One time, on the test server, I discovered that the flower girl (or a lot of other NPCs) could be shot with a hand pylon. 👀

lusty sedge
#

Turns out the hand pylon was a reskinned symbol of holiness

crisp fern
#

I'd like add coffee for the drunk sailor. And an update to messaging to make it clear that the Martha he is looking for is actually his mother. And of course, whether we know it or not, all of our moms are named Martha too.

proud seal
#

yada yada Batman v. Superman.

hearty wedge
tardy hill
hearty wedge
#

I mean... just think about it marginally... a 'normal' health recovery is like, 4-6 depending on race

tardy hill
#

taking it to 50 health/min means never needing acantha leaf again 😄

hearty wedge
#

Ok, at 1x PF, you get +5

#

I think we may be the only two people that are massive Health Regen advocates

tardy hill
#

I had a 50 per, dissipating 1 ooze poison earlier today and basically laughed it off when coupled with the ensorcelling health recovery

humble cape
#

I have quite a bit invested in health recovery ASC.

tardy hill
#

i think it was one of the last meaningful additions i made to my enhancive set

chrome bear
#

It makes sense that it's a worthwhile investment but it seems so boring

tame osprey
hardy sedge
#

Just to be crystal clear, it is still acceptable to reference the real $ value of an item based on the Simustore/Simucoins needed to acquire it?

tame osprey
#

Yes.

chrome bear
#

What's the cost of a DR ticket?

DR ticket cost in simucoins/135 = estimated cost per dollar.

DR currency is valued at an average of 775k silver per 1k currency

Ticket is worth what, 310 currency?

#

That would be pretty equivalent to any third party markets that may or may not exist with a 10-15% markup for assuming the risk.

tame osprey
#

If you want to do all that math to be difficult go ahead but show your work lol

raven compass
#

A DR entry could be worth:

  • 150 bloodscrip (death in arena)
  • 300 bloodscrip and 200 exp (gladiator trade-in only in bundle deals of 25)
  • 300 bloodscrip and ~1200 exp and an arena drop worth ~15k silver (arena loot on and resting between runs)
  • 310 bloodscrip and ~1200 exp (arena loot off and resting between runs)
  • 300 bloodscrip, an arena drop worth ~15k silver on average, and technically losing exp (not resting between runs when you would have been doing normal hunting had Duskruin not been open)
  • 310 bloodscrip and technically losing exp

Or various permutations of those if you don't stick to a single approach the entire time the event is open. This also isn't factoring in the sewers as a possibility, average cache drop rates or value, average sewer rat drops, Bag of Holding part drop rates, fame, dropped weapons in the arena itself, the subjective QoL of Rings of Lumnis brooch usage, the subjective QoL of LTE boosts, the subjective QoL of mind clearers, the bounty boosts/mind clearers or other chosen boosts randomly dropped, the indigo orbs dropped, and more.

hardy sedge
#

I prefer to use the lowest value of simucoins for calculating. If Simu feels it's appropriate to charge a base rate of 500 Simucoins for $4.99, then that is the value I assign them - even if there is a discount in bulk.

tame osprey
inland nacelle
#

ACcck! math!

hardy sedge
#

Don't make me eat another plant!

tame osprey
#

Did you find more zero bite plants

lusty sedge
#

<-- takes it as a point of personal failure that he lacks any edible plant based math puns

craggy bear
tame osprey
#

I was pretty clear, don't compare silver to cash based on a third party exchange rate

#

there's no point in playing games when we both know where the cash value alastir quoted came from lol

craggy bear
#

Yep, agreed - i didnt ask that to justify Alastir's comments... I deleted my comment from earlier, just because I find no reason to tip toe right around the thin line there when it didn't really add value to the conversation anyways, so no reason to stir the pot. I was just curious if it was a "violation" to connect the dots between the cost of a $ driven Simucoin entry and a silver driven event box entry with no 3rd party involved

soft dragon
nocturne valve
#

pumpkin pi

gusty crest
#

I think its also a bad look for a company to sell stuff for cash and be like please dont talk about cash. But thats just my own personal hot take.

bright palm
#

I think you can talk cash so long as it’s the company’s valuation, right?

tame osprey
#

Yes

gusty crest
#

You could backwards math a eventbox items and get a number for silvers but it seems like your post might get pulled. I did find wildly great amusement yesterday in Alastir post getting pulled then a comment a few post later miss spelling a word thats block by the automod and that was left which seemingly is a violation of what they want on here or not.

tame osprey
#

I always encourage people to do math.

grand lava
gusty crest
#

how would you determine if I was using that valuation or a player one though.

tame osprey
#

I mean, I know the third party valuation.

gusty crest
#

I think the answer is whatever number goat sets there but its still fluid

tame osprey
#

I gotta be honest, if I think somebody is genuinely doing their own valuation through event boxes and whatever I’m not going to pull it. but you and I both know that’s not what was happening in that post

gusty crest
#

oh 100%

icy knoll
# 
[9:26 PM] Tikba: update from talking with the GMs is I was right, don't make posts that compare silver to a cash value based on third party cash sale exchange rates, that's not allowed on the discord.
[9:31 PM] Shan: Just to be crystal clear, it is still acceptable to reference the real $ value of an item based on the Simustore/Simucoins needed to acquire it?
[9:31 PM] Tikba: Yes.

Can you provide an example of how we show the value of 1 million silvers in simucoins via your convoluted method

Can you also clarify who confirmed this rule that even the mention of the value of 1 million silvers = post pulled. Which is not a violation of the clearly defined rules?

3. No cash sales on the official Discord.  This includes character/account sales.

@storm sphinx

I wasn't offering anything for sale. I asked how many silvers would you feel comfortable gambling for enhancives. And what the associated value would be.

chrome bear
#

Just convert it. It's ~$0.71 per ticket at the lower possible price ($999.99 package) to ~$0.91 at the worst price ($4.99 for 550 simucoins)

~3.33 tickets pet 1k BS

~$2.38-$3.02 per 1k BS

~775k silvers per 1k BS

2.38/0.775 = $3.07

3.02/0.775 = ~$3.90

icy knoll
#

Stating what value silvers have isn't a violation of the written rules. @tame osprey is attempting to rewrite the rules I guess, and some unknown GM has confirmed it? How would you ask the question I asked, how much are you willing to gamble, without her pulling it because it mentions silvers, and a value. Even though the rules say no cash sales, and we're not selling anything.

chrome bear
#

So 1 million silver, in the current market, is now proven to be worth ~$3-4

fallow hare
#

Wyrom confirmed it.

icy knoll
#

@storm sphinx We can't talk about the value of silvers any more?

chrome bear
#

I just showed you the math. It falls in line with markets that do or dont exist. Refer to that post next time if it comes up. This is all needlessly bureaucratic on all sides lol

steady hinge
#

Repeatedly pinging Wyrom is probably not the answer

icy knoll
#

It's like putting in a placeholder for when this conversation eventually scrolls out. And he has stated before he doesn't mind pings.

runic sierra
icy knoll
runic sierra
#

If need be, I will ask the parties to do so for clarity.

silk dune
#

and actions specifically targeted to be disruptive is grounds for being removed from the official Discord and possibly an immediate account termination in GemStone IV.

Seems relevant

steady hinge
#

This is one of those situations where being annoying is CLEARLY going to lead to more rules rather than less.

icy knoll
fallow hare
icy knoll
somber dew
#

Oh hey... Lunch entertainment.

worn grotto
#

Let's get back on topic, please.

steady hinge
#

Yea....where's my 2s disabler

hearty wedge
#

rsn

silk dune
#

I thought it was 1s

steady hinge
#

You got like 45 days!

scenic locust
lusty sedge
#

wait, is that a disabler that only lasts 2s, or one that only takes 2s? Or both?

icy knoll
coral lantern
mental anchor
#

Think average price for shards on the open market was 700k per 1k and bs was 800k.. which makes 1mil silver valued at 3.3-3.8 based on simucoin pricing excluding the extras such as simucoin items, extra bs, enhancives, exp, etc. Which makes it a lot more unpredictable.

Anywho! Event boxes changes will affect the market somehow. Who knows how it'll map out next year. More interesting to map cost of currency to cost of items/services available.

scenic grail
#

Hey, let's move on from this topic now.

mental anchor
#

I can find a dead horse and beat it with the service availability causing silvers to drain from one profession to another 🙊

Seriously though, SoE happened. It's been informative. Hopefully we'll get info more often about projects stalling. Dunno what else to talk about here at this point.

steady hinge
#

We can talk about how it's been almost 15 minutes since last time I asked and I still don't see no spell disabler updates

craggy bear
#

Proposed Topic Change.... Can we get a short storyline to tie into the invoker leaving the landing. I'm thinking:

  • Too many people showed up during one of her sessions. She temporarily loses control of her magic. The small Park gets blasted into a crater and is not recognizable. A group of citizens come together, cleanup shanty town, create new homes, and new small park with a memorial garden is built in place of ST.
scenic locust
#

I just like she's vamoosing. Landing was told wild, even for her.

somber dew
#

The people in Mist Harbor tip better. 😉

hearty wedge
#

Funding competition. Set up Invoker for a day in each city... then after each city has been done, the invoker will settle in the best tipping city for a week.

#

Prisoner's Dilemma silver drain

scenic locust
#

That's....funny.
I want to see it, just to see it happen.

craggy bear
#

Could be fun... Maybe see a whale or two come out to try to pull her into their hometown

scenic locust
#

Sounds like a hostage situation.

nocturne valve
#

maybe a rogue or two come steal the tips in foreign cities

hearty wedge
#

sounds like market research and good business!

scenic locust
nocturne valve
#

release story for npc theft

scenic locust
nocturne valve
#

You can steal from a NPC in the sprite quest, no reason some other NPC can't be scripted to do it.

scenic locust
#

Would be nice and fun, to be honest.

tame osprey
#

People tipped the invoker too much and now she has a premium sub

hearty wedge
#

Except that every NPC is likely it's own unique object, and may not be leveraging a universal NPC code... unless if it did contain a universal NPC code, it would require individaul variables for treasure/etc, otherwise everyone stealing from the same object, therefore updating every NPC to call the universal stealability and then set up the loot, replenishment time, etc... It's not just a "why not all NPCs" thing

scenic locust
#

People ain't tipping the invoker 1 silver, that's for sure.

abstract mesa
nocturne valve
#

people tip the pool 1 silver

scenic locust
abstract mesa
#

What if, the invoker won’t cast, except when a secret silver threshold is met between 1 silver and 1 million silver, but each individual contributes to the pool, and you never know when she’s going to cast.

hearty wedge
#

And YOU get an immolation... and YOU get an implosion

nocturne valve
#

If you had to hand over a tip rather than ask for spells, I bet there'd be an awful lot of 1 silver tips.

scenic locust
#

Doesn't make it right. She works hard!

hearty wedge
#

I sometimes tip 1 silver... but... as a halfling, I'm only carrying boxes back so rogues can level if they're at rough level gaps.

#

Before the pool I used to not even bother picking them up

scenic locust
#

Man just add two zeros. Like, 1 silver says something.

I mean, I'll open your box. But I'm muttering under my breath as I do so.

"Boooooougie."

nocturne valve
#

In my case it says I don't want to collect the boxes for a while.

abstract mesa
tame osprey
#

Yeah if they lowered the worker box limit you’d see tips go up so that people could get their boxes out haha

#

I am not proposing this, to be clear

hearty wedge
#

I only clear mine when it's full... because I R lazy

tame osprey
#

I usually clear my boxes out when I’m done with resource for the week

#

Because otherwise I need to be hunting haha

raven compass
#

If the invoker moves to FWI as planned, it's because she's gotten sick of being tipped candy by those random urchin NPCs in her ambient messages, realize her worth, and move on to better pastures.

If the invoker somehow ends up staying in the Landing, it's because she's in league with all the urchins and orphans and has secretly been a Rook the whole time.

craggy bear
scenic grail
#

Who could possibly get tired of candy

#

That is too far

spiral bane
proud seal
gusty crest
#

walking by the bank in a side alley you notice Draven handing the invoker a very large sack of coins, after a small exchange the invoker touches a pin they are wearing and vanish from sight

abstract mesa
#

I will accept patreon donations on behalf of the invoker.

icy knoll
odd pebble
scenic locust
humble cape
#

You can have all the licorice. I hate it all.

#

(It's a texture and flavor thing, if it's a flavor I would normally like, the texture is blegh)

scenic locust
chrome bear
humble cape
#

...eating egg...are we talking about the fish egg at Caligos or just egg in general?

scenic locust
#

Yes.

#

Not to harp on it too much, 24/7 invoker in FWI in a safe spot is a dope way to do things. That way, people won't leave the East at 9:42 to catch the invoker before the ferryman goes on break and you miss it.

humble cape
#

baby back ribs are delicious! As long as they're not too spicy.

steady hinge
scenic locust
craggy bear
steady hinge
# scenic locust Quiet, you!

Stop trying to candy coat the invoker going behind a pay wall! It's like being served unseasoned chicken and tepid pumpkin pie!

atomic path
#

It would be more aligned to original intent of four winds to strip invoker spells if you go back to another realm.

dapper cape
#

The proper answer to our collective overreliance on invoker spells is more spell sever

dapper cape
humble cape
#

I am a wimp when it comes to spicy hot.

atomic path
#

In gs3 there was not a zeal to powerhunt to cap and most younger players did not have hand me down 10x gear and access to duskruin upgrades and lich. Invoker and dreaven are unnecessary except everyone wants fast efficiency and easy.

#

It completely unbalanced years of calibration for monster difficulty in areas level 1 to 50, which used to be the best in game

gusty crest
#

k

soft dragon
#

Invoker in every town, but the NPC needs to have mana sent to it and stored up to cast the spells for others

gusty crest
coral lantern
#

Boy, where is my 10x gear. My friends were slacking when I was new.

Wait, I'm post cap and still in 6x gear what the heck

haughty relic
#

If other professions suddenly get 2s disabler spells then wizards should get 0 second disablers when under rapidfire, its only fair....

gusty crest
#

im sus on "power hunters" using the invoker

lusty sedge
#

Have I been doing it wrong again? I keep messing this up

raven compass
#

Increasing silver costs would just drive players right back to mass spelling each other up instead, re-establishing the problem the invoker was supposed to fix in the first place.

random island
coral lantern
#

I've used the invoker maybe twice. If "power hunters" don't use the invoker, does this mean I'm a power hunter?

(I almost couldn't ask that with a straight face)

gusty crest
soft dragon
#

I was really banking on players being able to make spellup pills they could hand out. I'm sad to see that turn into a simucoin item but I kinda get it too

raven compass
gusty crest
#

I have a book out about that its called the "Rise and fall of Dravenings and Reim: cautionary tale"

tacit gorge
coral lantern
#

I think they were trying to be diplomatic with the source of the lag in the SoE

lusty sedge
#

I got the imipression that they have increased stability as well. They partially needed the invoker just to stop the house from burning long enough to replace the wiring that kept lighting on fire. Sometimes a temporary fix is needed to survive the long term fix process

raven compass
coral lantern
#

If Dreavenings started again the lag would return. The "fix" was offering a better service so the mass player spells in a single room stopped

tacit gorge
#

Dreavenings never stopped

soft dragon
#

I would put my bet on it comes down to the game engine being single threaded to a large degree. Would be interesting to see if that could/would ever be addressed, but thats game engine improvements

steady hinge
#

Dreavening still occurs like clock work and still has an attendance when it occurs off rotation with the invoker (broken sketchy backwoods rolex clock work...but regularly)

It should be noted Dreaven has released scripts to duplicate dreavenings anywhere

chrome bear
#

They say they fixed the lag. The reason the invoker has stayed was because it was obviously popular and useful. Which was why it was moved behind a paywall instead of being removed from the game. It is what it is but it sure isnt endearing.

silk dune
# tacit gorge Unless I misunderstood SoE, I don't think mass spellups are still an issue - I *... 
We had increased the number of effects that can run, and I don't see it being something that happened last night.  It was a problem though and the main reason the invoker even came into existence so we could review all that.  But It wasn't even at 50% of the resources being used there since the increase.  I think some item must have introduced a bug with spells dropping prematurely, but we haven't been able to figure it out since it happens randomly and doesn't get reported too often.```
coral lantern
#

Huh, then I fully don't understand why the invoker has existed and been denied to the east for so long because we've flat been told that the problem didn't exist in the east, so we didn't get the fix.

tame osprey
#

I am genuinely interested in knowing whether people would prefer the invoker to be fully removed rather than move to FWI (so that it does not become a premium upsell)

silk dune
# 
The invoker helped us see how to offset the load, for sure.```
chrome bear
#

I think the cat is out of the bag already.

steady hinge
tame osprey
#

I mean the reason I didn’t ask whether people would prefer the status quo is that I already know

steady hinge
#

I would prefer the invoker shows up every 2 hours, once in IMT and two hours later in TI...and a second invoker is permanent and on FWI for silver.
but there are a ton of options between kill the invoker and put it in FWI

tame osprey
#

I mean that’s fair, I am not trying to limit imagination

somber dew
#

I am in the "Just get rid of the Invoker if the underlying effect management code is taken care of" camp.

chrome bear
#

But to be completely honest, there is a reason old GS almost died. Moving towards that system while also pushing monetization seems....well it doesnt sound like a good idea. You can choose your own difficulty when hunting, I dont see why what others have should matter.

tame osprey
#

Yeah, I remember the old days of sitting in the small park waiting for somebody to wake up and say “okay blurs”

storm sphinx
#

I'm watching the feedback.

atomic path
#

It was actually dangerous for a young character to venture out of town with item loss and the real possibility of getting lost

chrome bear
#

And to reiterate for the 50th time, I dont even use the invoker. Its existence doesnt effect me either way

storm sphinx
#

The spellup item is still going to exist regardless.

tacit gorge
tame osprey
#

Haha

atomic path
#

I think invoker should be at each noob area one night a week like bonus guild night

storm sphinx
#

It's going to be introduced via silver and GIFTBOX, the SimuCoin Store listing won't be right away.

random island
#

I like the invoker. It helps newer players and keeps me from having to spend my limited time tracking down buffs.

silk dune
#

If the majority of the characters logging in and playing are capped does how easy it is to level really matter in the grand scheme of things? I can't imagine we have many new new players as most new subscriptions are probably folks from the past re-subscribing.

This game is a hard sell for any player that didn't get introduced to it in the AOL days.

tame osprey
#

I mean I don’t think we should deliberately opt into a policy of “get dunked new players”

random island
#

If you design only for long time veterans, then that's the only kind of player you'll have.

steady hinge
#

I am a bit confused at the direction.
Most games use bonuses to attract players. Fallout or BDO or pick your game here- They do double gold weekend or double exp month or roll a new character and get double exp for a season or something.......if the idea is "come back it just got more grindy and less fun" is seen by someone as an email that will attract returning players, the majority of what actually comes back, please explain who came up with that idea.

storm sphinx
#

The game actually had to undergo quite a bit of engine work to handle the issues. Group mechanics are something that really should be worked on as limiting factors, just touching on normal RPG mechanics across many types of games. Parties should be a certain limit, questing (raiding) should be a certain limit, and so on. That's just the reality of the game. It strains the game with large groups. We want groups, but 20 is pretty much the most the game can realistically handle. Just looking at it from scroll alone.

atomic path
#

They need to reconceptualize that idea of creating a monster class that would hunt players...that would drive interest. Heh.

tame osprey
#

I have to agree it is very frustrating playing a low level character even with access to the invoker because I know I’m tied to her schedule to be able to get through what I think is the least fun part of the game

#

But that also goes to the low level experience specifically

soft dragon
#

Scroll I think is the heart of most of the MA/large group, sell one by one, etc issues that come up and are vocalized in different ways
its the biggest downside to a text game that has so much flexability in other areas

storm sphinx
#

Movement in large groups really just has to be disabled, that's where the game crashes.

silk dune
#

This game is nothing but long term veterans whether its folks playing consistently or off and on.

The game has an aging playerbase and its just a fact that the majority of the player base is probably older than 40+.

At a certain point the game will die simply because the playerbase no longer exists.

steady hinge
soft dragon
#

probably not wrong, but i mean, you gotta at least try right?

silk dune
#

I'd rather acknowledge facts and focus efforts on having a good time for everyone that has stuck with it . Party till the lights go out.

chrome bear
#

I think that's demonstrably not everyone's experience but it doesnt preclude it from being yours. The game doesnt attract alot of newer players, but there is little difference between someone who hasnt logged in for 15y+ and a new player in the grand scheme of things. Retention is retention

Either way: I'm not going to be yelling at kids to get off my lawn because they use more spells than I did levelling up

atomic path
#

They could add legendary thyril caches only randomly found if character is under 10 rather than just for capped. Prize would need to be something like real gem title and private home

steady hinge
storm sphinx
#

But like I said, we're reviewing the feedback. The invoker was never meant to be permanent, and we announced it as such, but we realize it's been out a long time.

soft dragon
#

My own personal, limited, experience is that the rich low level hunting grounds actually generate a lot of the GM box found items, which sure they aren't legendaries, but they are usually unique enough to get people asking about them and interested at times

raven compass
steady hinge
#

Never underestimate a player base that turned the EG silver sink, digging, into an EG silver generation device by determining the number of alts needed to brute force the experience into a positive.

raven compass
#

I mean, technically the number of characters needed to turn digging into a positive was only one: a bard with sufficient Trading. It was more a question of scale, turnaround time, and whether jackpots would actually consistently be a part of the picture or if it was just about incremental gem value...

Edit: Fun fact, literally just a couple months ago I discovered I still had 20 100-count gem bottles of Caligos Isle gems I forgot to sing to and sell. They're gone now. 😂

chrome bear
#

Lots of ways around it, make the extra loot an incentive to try new specs but not sellable - no locker fees until level 20...etc etc. Different subject though.

storm sphinx
#

Digging net cost was about ~475 silver. It was close to 0 in the days you could sell everything.

ancient pelican
#

My two cents: the invoker is a bit of a crutch (one that I admittedly use on my low level guy since it’s easy) that doesn’t really do much to help social interaction within our massively multiplayer game. If the concern is that new players will find it too difficult without the invoker, we should find a way to get the truly new players some basic spells in a more limited fashion OR make hunting easier (which is obviously a big development lift)

raven compass
#

IMO, just making progress in leveling faster--and I mean significantly faster--would be far easier than rebalancing every creature ever. And it would probably have a similar or better effect of making the game feel less daunting since at least the next big "You are now level X!" would always be in reach.

craggy bear
#

Since you're actively reviewing feedback.... going to post it again. On the hopes that it gains traction:

  • Invoker stays in Landing, charges 10k per use. More consistent schedule. Becomes a great silver drain.
  • Invoker is free for anyone under lvl 20, helps through early level grind and new player retention
  • FWI has a 2nd invoker that is free as a premium benefit, but comes less frequently? I added that last part
soft dragon
#

For some, but wouldn't that also be putting people into higher levels with more options and mechanics at a quicker pace, thus almost forcing them into learning new stuff quicker instead of preparing?
I think just the game alone is daunting, which by itself isn't a bad thing. Its having various support systems in place to help guide through the different areas at times.

We need a dinklebot to guide us

silk dune
#

Lumnis all the time.

craggy bear
soft dragon
atomic path
#

Older characters are largely separated from younger ones by intention now. That decision especially for clerics and empaths had some adverse consequences to community and mentoring. The krolvin and kobold union object to so many young characters fully tanked.

mental anchor
#

just implement spell sever gamewide

alpine quarry
#

Playing devil's advocate: if the proposition is to keep the Landing Invoker as well as the proposed FWI invoker, why not just put one in the EN instead and be done with it.

coral lantern
#

I have no problem with the invoker other than that it was denied to any other town, including starting towns where it would have done the most good.

mental anchor
#

1k per level past level 20, invoker comes every 2 hours on a rotation between FWI, EN and WL

silk dune
#

There's a team for player experience but the NEW player experience is basically dead as I interpreted the SoE. Finnia got feature creeped into unwieldyness.

soft dragon
alpine quarry
#

If spell pills are coming down the line anyway then the Invoker can go

chrome bear
#

Simucoin item

scenic locust
#

Nah, just make it free for below 20. Actually attach it to their having to lock their skills at 20. Put that as a warning.

And keep the invoker in FWI. The pills, I mean, we're going to be all Gary Oldman in The Professional, just popping the junk and listening to "Mozart".

raven compass
# soft dragon For some, but wouldn't that also be putting people into higher levels with more ...

Sure, but I don't know why I'd see that as a bad thing. For anyone who finds the game too hard without the invoker, that's probably due at least in part to being too low level to even have a robust toolkit, be in the armor their profession is expected to be in yet, etc.

So they'd be able to reach those milestones more quickly and at least think there are options to explore beyond the most basic stance dancing.

atomic path
#

I want an Underdog ring to put my spell pill in

steady hinge
alpine quarry
coral lantern
scenic locust
#

I gotta ask. I feel like I'm one of the few that still Stance Dances.

Does anyone stance dance still?

raven compass
steady hinge
soft dragon
gusty crest
raven compass
# scenic locust I gotta ask. I feel like I'm one of the few that still Stance Dances. Does any...

Yes, my paladin stance dances between the nothing-can-touch-me stance and the everything-pokes-me-at-best-except-the-draugrs-that-kill-me-in-one-focused-mstrike stance in the Hinterwilds.

During stuff like bandits or Duskruin Arena, though, meh, no need. All offensive all the time (and hope it's not a fire giant champion with a claidhmore since that's like the only thing that gets over ~650 AS and it still needs the claidh weighting to really inflict punishment).

steady hinge
lusty sedge
chrome bear
#

...Is there a non-stance dancing option? Why wouldnt I? lol

soft dragon
#

what are stances?

steady hinge
fallow hare
alpine quarry
#

I'm just disappointed that the Invoker seems to have been the biggest conversation piece from the whole of the SoE. That's rather telling, IMO

coral lantern
lusty sedge
#

I think it's more that it's the one quibbling over has the most chance of changing the outcome of

raven compass
#

I'm not sure it's telling. There's not really much to say about the other things since they're all in at least one of a few categories: coming out very soon anyway, buried deep in the backlog, already been toyed around with heavily on the test server, already thoroughly explained in dev documents, extremely light on details, etc.

alpine quarry
#

I would add that most people who quibble on discord are just the very small vocal minority

scenic locust
lusty sedge
alpine quarry
lusty sedge
#

Eh, Mechanics is currently Boats Boats Boats!

raven compass
#

The bard service, rogue service, and spell disabler review have been discussed off and on for years by now. 😄

scenic locust
#

If this means we get to fish from boats in the future, consider me down.

alpine quarry
#

Anyway, I've said my piece / had my quibble so I'm out.

lusty sedge
#

I feel fishing from boats is one of those problems that sounds simple, until you realize that since the water is entirely an illusion, the only way they can actually solve it is to add an invisible pond to the deck of your ship

steady hinge
coral lantern
#

Just need a different fishing system that doesn't check for water in the room. Deep sea fishing!

soft dragon
#

I'm going to fish in the bakery if that happens

scenic locust
# lusty sedge I feel fishing from boats is one of those problems that sounds simple, until you...

I know it's probably not simple. I know it's a stretch. And I won't lose sleep if it never happens. I can handle rejection.

But it does sound like a fun thing to be able to do. Like ocean fishing from the beach. But the difficulties have been mentioned, so it's just wishful thinking in that regard.

Cooking has made fishing SO MUCH FUN! I can't wait to find new fish to prep and catch. Imagine what lies in the ocean.

coral lantern
steady hinge
#

I feel like rester heard all the SoE things and said hold my beer and released boat lockers?

haughty relic
#

Has anyone ever thrown out the idea of "Renting an NPC bodyguard" for X silver per hour? Like basically a companion humanoid that follows you around and you can set its aggression and tasks. Basically MAing for coins or if ya got not friends lol

tacit gorge
humble cape
#

If you're on a boat, check the map in the captain's room for location.

scenic locust
thin coyote
scenic locust
#

Rent a friend does sound....sad.

verbal violet
lusty sedge
#

meanwhile, Rental Girlfriend is hilarious (I'm behind, need to catch up on it)

silk dune
#

Rental Girlfriend is hilarious but I also want the protag to fall off a cliff

lusty sedge
#

that's every manga.

raven compass
alpine quarry
#

But I feel like I’m being goaded so I am going to refrain from posting again

lusty sedge
#

It was the first time the topic had been brought up, so there is the newness. Many of the other things have already done this gambit

chrome bear
#

Disabler review is going to be pretty amazing but we don't have anything to say about it because it's still hush hush

icy knoll
steady hinge
#

I am excited about the spell disablers coming out...but I am waiting till they come out to talk more...which should be like in 45 days or less

silk dune
#

Need 1 spell disabler released a day between Nov 24 and Dec 24.

scenic locust
#

Receipts!

lusty sedge
#

I feel you may not entirely grasp when in most processes you usually get a receipt

scenic locust
#

And I feel you might not understand the jargon behind my statement.

native island
raven compass
#

I will say I'm legit super excited to bring 118 and/or 214 back into Leafi's toolkit for the first time in like 7.2 years, to bring 118 into my warrior/rogue/monk/paladin/ranger toolkit for the first time ever, etc.

Edit: And that's even assuming that what we've heard of the spell disabler review--changing RT, mana costs, and converting some to SMR--is all there is to it. If there are other factors introduced like adding status effects to spells that used to not have them, all kinds of spells could join my list of things to be excited for!

lusty sedge
#

I'm curious how buffed the spells will be. I'm already using them

silk dune
#

I'm curious to see what will and won't work with blink weapons

#

I think 212 could be a real beast depending on the adjustments. Currently it lowers the targets TD, AS, and DS.

lusty sedge
#

I use 217 on my cleric against groups. When the opening salvo is that + 1015, only having a 1:4 chance still means you get some hits in, and one helps the other etc.

silk dune
#

Were the 400s and 500s part of this spell disabler review? I forget

raven compass
#

410 was mentioned, at absolute minimum, so probably yes.

lusty sedge
#

yeah, there's plenty in there that could use a spruse too

icy knoll
#

I would hope all disablers are in the review. It would be nice to have a little more information about what reworking them means though. A lot of the minor lists aren't usable because of CS vs TD and then there's the level vs level aspect. Are they addressing all of those pieces? Will we now have the same CS for all spell circles?

atomic path
#

I hope ithzir armor is upgraded to account for disablers so it works as intended now.

silk dune
#

No idea. If you make it level based you'll have some issues in HW and Moonsedge unless spell ranks or lore provides a bump to success.

They may just go with a guaranteed success on everything if you're willing to take the time and spend the mana.

#

I think Paladins and Rangers could be real winners depending on training required for effectiveness and mana costs. Paladin and web would be great.

timber cipher
scenic locust
steady hinge
scenic locust
rain dawn
humble cape
#

Any chance of an update on the partial refund on the spell prep and messaging slips? Just wondering given that DM is supposed to run in December.

storm sphinx
#

When it runs in December, we'll have an announcement.

humble cape
#

👍

craggy bear
#

((Cheekily)) Stopped buying some of these great December Deals in the simucoin store because my fingers got too tired clicking over and over again just for 25 coin spends....

The "quantities” feature should would make it easier to spend money right now 😏

civic escarp
#

Yeah I am hoping for some website magic at some point in the future if it becomes a possibility.

humble cape
#

gosh darn it I wish adg and guild vouchers were interchangeable.

gusty crest
storm sphinx
#

SimuCoin Store overhaul is in the 2024 agenda, but we're unraveling everything still with our new leadership, which hasn't been easy. Everything was built in house and it's tough to pull it apart, even with an out of the box solution. But nothing is really stuck with a gatekeeper, it's just figuring out how to do it without killing everything in the process.

craggy bear
#

Appreciate the candor! That'll help me keep my trap shut and wait a lil patiently for it 😬

storm sphinx
#

It likely is a late 2024 project, I'd probably even safely say it's a stretch goal, because the website is needed first. The store is actually completely separate in terms of how it's built. It's not an offsite task though, so GMs don't work on it. We have been fixing other things with our newer software engineer that started last month. For example, editing the store is a 3 hour process right now, he's going to be getting that down to just a few seconds hopefully soon. I don't even want to tell you how many hours that sale takes to do for December, one at a time. There are also some handshaking issues if you ever try to delivery quickly that will hopefully be resolved by February. But all those things take time.

solar turret
#

The deliver one is wild. Another issue is deliver lists all your purchases so similar to like CHE list I bet it's a resource hog when I simucoin deliver 120 enhancive potions

storm sphinx
#

Yeah, a lot of it for a long time was, "It works, why would we change it." Obviously, I don't agree with that statement, but now that we do have new leadership, it's just been untangling it. We are fully IFE (DR and GS) focused, but the backend is a bit of a mess, and we worked really hard to clean that up most of 2023. They also relocated (hence our downtime a few times this year). Other products have been shutdown or in the process of being shutdown. It's truly new beginnings, but we're also solving over twenty years of stuff as fast as we can.

chrome bear
#

Yes, but MY problems are the most important you see ....

storm sphinx
chrome bear
abstract shore
#

Regardless of what does or doesn’t get fixed I appreciate the communication. It’s pretty darn rare nowadays, well actually I think it’s always been rare 😆

plush zephyr
#

any teasers or info on when the spell disabler review will be on the test or live? is it still coming this year?

#

with the end of the year about 2 weeks away the silence is deafening

civic escarp
#

I'm stoked for them too but if they get pushed to January not terrible, we waited this long. Watch it be one or two the last week of December and a couple in January.

prisma crag
#

We've already teased what it will entail. It won't hit the Test server first though.

civic escarp
#

This makes me immediately feel Estild has already finished the project and is just waiting for holiday to yell "SURPRISE, they're live in prime as of 2 seconds ago." 😂 🤭

#

Nailed it.

image.png
light dagger
#

anyone know where to find the teasers for spell disabler review?

civic escarp
#

The only Teasers I saw were in audio form on the SoE. I have two videos covering it on YouTube and in the description of the recap video, there's a link to concise text notes. Really it's not much of a teaser just a concept and saying they'll be out by end of the year in waves.

abstract mesa
#

I mean, if disabler review was released on Christmas morning it would give me the old 1998 nostalgia feeling. I remember waking up at like 3:00 am that year to play gemstone before everyone woke up, and so I could monopolize the telephone line. Christmas morning warm fuzzies.

light dagger
#

ty for the info! I still remember that phone modem sound to connect and the trouble I got into when the charges came through after gemstone went from being free on aol to charge by the hour or minute or whatever it was..

solar turret
#

I remember the bills, my mom did not pay 😉

storm sphinx
#

Any time the whole GEnie/Prodigy/AOL era bills gets mentioned, I get a little fearful. Haha, man, my mother had a crazy powerful slipper. I would not be here if I was on more than my free 10 hours per disk! My uncle worked for IBM though, so we had Prodigy either at a discount or maybe it was free, I don't remember. I was just a teenager.

steady hinge
#

My first GEnie bill, well the households first GEnie bill...prompted some strong conversatons

solar turret
#

Prodigy was free. I work at an internet company. People are like XX$ for internet and that little voice is yeah...so 20 hours in 1994

hearty wedge
mental anchor
#

A Cinderella glass slipper that overwrites your outfit in a dozen different ways like a shimmer trinket but you have no control over it and it's only 1x a day.

hearty wedge
#

And that fully reflects both sides of gemstone perfectly.

faint spear
#

As a player base, do we have reason to be concerned that, if my math is right, we have lost over 30% of all GM staff this year?

mental anchor
#

Is your enjoyment of the game drastically reduced at this point? If not, don't worry about it. But you're not a good judge because you always hate the game.

craggy bear
mental anchor
#

Wyrom — 09/07/2022 11:10 AM
We have 57 GameMasters right now, we are very overstaffed.

faint spear
chrome bear
#

The guy with the GS based YouTube channel hates the game. Obviously

umbral trout
#

The guy who spends his time cultivating his own storylines and encouraging rich RP hates the game. Checks out.

astral sequoia
#

While I know the game was overstaffed not long ago, I think it's pretty reasonable to feel some feelings about the people we've lost as they are not just slot-fillers but individuals whose work as merchants, storytellers, and builders we have come to know and love. It was a reasonable question, asked in a reasonable way -- and I'd say it echoes concerns many players may share.

tame osprey
#

Hey

#

There’s a lot going on here which is not about the state of elanthia meeting’

worn grotto
#

I'm obviously biased, but I don't think you have anything to be concerned about. We're still pushing out a lot of new content and there are a great many new and refreshed things that are in the works that I am super excited about and I think you guys will be, too.

astral sequoia
#

There has indeed been a huge amount of new content. ❤️

abstract mesa
solar turret
#

This was explained because of the Pandemic. 22 GMs I think is the count, but things change and people had to go back into the world to earn income. That isn't a negative. Imagine the cumulative investment those GMs made when they could. The GMs just dropped 2 huge areas with more on the way. Content and development has never been higher.

umbral trout
#

22 GMs? We're at double that

humble cape
#

I think you reversed the meaning of that 22 GMs.

spiral bane
hardy sedge
#

While I'm very excited to see the two new areas from yesterday, it's very bittersweet to see so many former staff listed in the credits. I'm very that that their hard work is finally visible to us.

steady hinge
#

I have concerns over GM turnover.

astral sequoia
#

Yes, I definitely get that there has been a lot of upheaval in the real world that has affected staffing. But I also see the names of people who've left on the new areas' credits (and I am very glad they're there and credited -- kudos to staff for ensuring that contributions are honored and valued in this way) and feel sad about not being able to congratulate them. GMs are not cogs in a larger machine, and I think it's pretty normal to feel sorrow when they leave and even concern, as Ptolemy asked about, for the high turnover rate.

I do appreciate @worn grotto for speaking to it. ❤️

ancient pelican
#

Feels like new areas, festivals, and mechanical stuff is still moving along. Would love to see more progress made towards getting the charms/profession reviews/next ascension tier out, but the game feels like it’s in a very good spot now overall. The staff is fantastic

astral sequoia
#

It does, and I don't want to minimize that at all. I've been wildly impressed with so much this year, both revamps of existing events and places and entirely new things. If anything, I'm pretty rah-rah about staff!

I think it just gave me pause to see Netz post his thoughts on Dwarves and encourage conversation about how to shape them going forward less than an hour before his resignation -- which, I should add, sounded upbeat and related to good things happening for him in his non-GS life.

abstract mesa
#

It feels like Gemstone lives in this bubble based on folks’ perception. If everyone believes the game is weak and falling apart, no one will spend money at pay events, and (I would just guess), the game would fall apart. If folks feel like the game is amazing, and strong, and will last another 20 years, people will continue to inhabit this world. It’s like Neverland… so, people’s perception, regardless of reality, is important in keeping this place going…. Or so I would guess.

steady hinge
#

I think it reminds me of like all the writers in Forgotten Realms when it was churning out novels in the 90's and early 00's, like they could still be churning out novels and supplements but if the writer YOU liked quit it still felt like something was lost even if the game/setting went on. Now on the plus side of this strained analogy...that setting did fine no matter who left or how you felt about any kind of individual departure.

solar turret
#

The game is in it's golden age. It's never been better. If it's going to fail it will because content stopped and staff just released 2 exceptional areas with more to come and other released in State of Elanthia

#

Maybe it's some I walked in the snow 10 miles up hill, but I can tell you the years the game sucked and it's not now. It was 2003-2008. Nothing happened. No new areas, no new spells, near nothing. I'm sure I could find some stuff, but it was bad

abstract mesa
#

Hey, I believe. I like inhabiting this world. I hope it keeps living.

craggy bear
scenic locust
#

I don't know what the game was like before? I enjoy it. I'd be fine it ran for another 20, or if it ended tomorrow. I'd be good either way.

I do want the folks to keep cooking up new stuff, and the players to do so as well. There's a lot of stuff I'm loving, and a lot of stuff that needs work.

Either way, we keep on with the keep on. I don't know if this is a golden age, but I do hope it brings about and retains new people.

silk dune
#

Burnout happens even if you love something. As long as there are plenty of passionate folks willing to step up there's nothing to worry about.

It's ok to have feelings about previous staff but the next member could be just as good if not better.

craggy bear
#

Sometimes, a little turnover can be good - bring fresh ideas from other sources, new perspectives, etc....
Stability is good, new ideas are as well. It's all a balancing act.
That being said, it is hard here, because the relationships & personalities get felt here more than other games where everything is purely behind the scenes.

scenic locust
#

I just think it's the same folks that have been tight-knit for so long, and there's so much investment by folks that it's hard to part.

From the eyes of a no-longer but still newbie, I think sometimes that familiarity does not translate to new players. So if it's a matter of keeping things for those same folks, that's fine. But at some point, you want to reach out to new folks that ware going to be invested and not be repulsed when it comes down to the money issue.

chrome bear
#

It's like IRL where you kind of have to integrate with a group.

hearty wedge
#

Yeah, I do love group calculus.

scenic locust
# chrome bear It's like IRL where you kind of have to integrate with a group.

The game can do a better job with that. All I'm saying.

I was blessed to have Bbee, and Wolfloner, and the brothers who joined (and a whole host of friends and aid that would take too darn long to list). But I've seen a lot of people get lost and overwhelmed, ask questions, and then just say "Bleep this" from the responses.

solar turret
#

I agree Yardie, sometimes thats just knowing where to put our energy. We look for it, but we don't always see it, ya know?

inland nacelle
#

one thing I definitely consider as a GM is that I am prone to assume people know as much about the game as me. which can be a factor when designing a scripted item that has instructions for a player, and that I need to consider players that have been here only few days and players that have been here decades. the balance is being able to describe how it works so someone new can use it, but also making it sophisticated enough to be useful to players who already know many ins-and-outs of the game.

civic escarp
#

Yeah like when I make videos, I try to layout the basics as I'm covering something more advanced, that way hopefully there's something for multiple people. The gift of knowledge vs a person who has never played. Heh

solar turret
#

Lowest denominator mentality. Imagine someone it's meant for at some theoretical top and explain the "What about me?" at the bottom

#

I really like the Jara and Ptolemy stuff. Kudos to them doing Youtube videos. Shoutout to Town Square Central as well

hearty wedge
#

I'm waiting for jara to pull me into a redux discussion

storm sphinx
#

When the lockdowns happened, we hired 8 new GMs to help us with the influx of returning players, and then we decided we needed to hire more in 2021, resulting in a total of 17 GMs hired. During our training, we typically don't have a 100% retention for varying reasons. The most common is just not realizing you're shedding your player skin to become a GameMaster. The time committment can be a little tough. Sometimes the peek behind the curtain is a little different than what you think. Other times the material is a little difficult. When I was hired, I was told retention was about 50%. Our retention the last two hires was about 90% beyond initial training.

storm sphinx
#

During the heaviest traffic, we had over 1,000 returning accounts. Our first 3 month promo we ran was very successful. We had a lot of people, both staff and players, with more free time. But as the world returned back to a normal state (as normal as it can get anyway), that free time dried up. Not everyone could stay work from home anymore. Those of you who enjoyed walking among the living started doing it again. So we started losing active accounts again, but we're still up from 2019 in a big way. We were sitting at 64 GMs at one point. My comment on overstaffed was mainly just due to the work load that comes with managing more people and keeping an eye on everything. We had quite a few people drifting because we weren't managing our resources as best as we could be. So in the summer of 2022, we had a restructuring to how the staff hierarchy sat. We tried to solve some issues where we had internal issues that we were working against ourselves. I consider GemStone to have 4 pillars, Development, Production, Player Experience, and Events, that's how we restructured the teams. There were growing pains with this, as with any change.

As mentioned, a good number of staff also lost a lot of free time after the lockdowns. Some GMs who might only have 15 hours a week for GMing were doing 40+ hours a week. We definitely benefitted off that. But the reality is, becoming a GameMaster is really a hobbyist gig and it really should come at the end of you life responsibilities. We are also not getting any younger. Sometimes life changes direction and you don't have time to be here anymore. I'll do my best to keep the lights on, and I hope whoever takes the torch next does the same.

We understand that change can bring questions. I am committed to open communication and will keep you informed throughout these transitions. I always have been. We might not communicate everything, but I think I've been an open book when it comes to any sort of turbulence that we've experienced. Our current hiring round was also done a little differently this time, as we are aiming to fill very specific roles. Typically we've done the whole "get your foot in the door" hiring rounds and let the pieces fall where they fit, but this time around we were looking for stronger coding backgrounds for the most part.

It's tough to say goodbye to staff. I've known most of you for a long time in one form or another. A lot of staff are my friends, some of them were my mentors and trainers. It's never easy. Sometimes my role comes with some tough decisions, but most days it's pretty rewarding. Moving forward, I do hope we have some fresh perspectives, some internal growth, and we can refine some processes that have been the status quo. I'll continue to navigate us to the best of my ability.

#

Oh and I made my emoji a little better.

scenic grail
scenic locust
# inland nacelle one thing I definitely consider as a GM is that I am prone to assume people know...

I think this is important to recognize, and it is also why the Mentor program is that influential. When I hear people try to simplify how "easy" Gemstone is, I tend to grimace. If you have been playing for over a decade, which is essentially much of the core group, these things are like riding a bike. But if you haven't been involved in that world at all, it...the best way I can describe it is like learning a new language.

It's important to get those new people and make them feel at home, make them feel welcome, and guide them through as much as possible with an open-mind for understanding. Because while RETURNING players might get the itch, I think you want to be able to expand to NEW players who may be looking for something new.

But that's just my two cents.

steady hinge
#

Gemstone is complicated as hell, and I don't even think there is a one pager of all the things you can do. Some of those things (like origami) require investments in training others (like fletching) require you to learn by repetition other (like weaving) you just need a couple of easy to get items.

#

I was marveling at how the paper maker is so so complicated but as an experienced user I just breeze through it....but really and honestly if you are not experienced with text verbs it's damn near a zork puzzle worth of functions on that cool little contraption

night lodge
#

When it comes to item design, darned near every crafting system has a different syntax, and then some come with mega annoying resource management restrictions. It takes the act of ideation and creative expression and turns it into tedium for the sake of 'you can't have something for free.' It takes the fun out of crafting, and leaves me frustrated and downright resentful on why ideation has to be gatekept.

Papermaking in particular is problematic on the resource management and confusing verb usage. (for example: the item resource 'charges' the contraption uses per page and what it can hold aren't consistent, so the wands run out before the water, the dye never gives you the right color, so you pay money to buy dye and convert dye and combine dyes, pour it into the device and then you get the wrong color). I legit scream at my computer every time I try to make paper. And even then, the end of that process isn't simply 'i made paper,' it's also the ideation and process of what goes ON the paper. So you have a double whammy of ideation and frustration simply for the sake of 'can't have something for free.' This is a bad approach to item design and I hope we don't see more of it. It would in fact, be great if someone oversaw item creation like this to implement UI standards, maybe and some user design thinking, instead of complexity because 'tedium is necessary' thinking.

I want to love these systems, truly. Sharing this feedback probably has some thinking 'well if players don't like this, staff just won't make crafting stuff anymore' and that itself is also very frustrating. But hey, if we don't offer feedback then there's never going to be an opportunity to change for the better.

opal arrow
#

I don't want to get into the weeds on a Papermaker discussion here since this is State of Elanthia and not specific item discussions, but there is a Papermaker thread and I'll ask a few questions there.

scenic grail
#

On the other side, sometimes I glance in the help or mechanics channels or Jara or Ptolemy's videos and wonder if they are really talking about gemstone. The game is so big that even the experts are only experts on a small sliver. I joke that Xanlin is the urchin guide guru but I am pretty sure he understands it more than me. It's funny all around. We try to "turn the tomato" to see issues from all angles, not just ours. And we hate the phrase "turn the tomato" btw.

coral edge
#

I’ve never even heard that phrase before now…

silk dune
#

Youth

scenic grail
#

So you can see if it's bruised

coral edge
#

I can’t find it in Urban Dictionary

scenic grail
#

A particular former staff member said it a lot

steady hinge
#

Were they from the produce section?

faint spear
scenic grail
#

I like those things

odd pebble
opal arrow
#

Great... Now I want cannolis

night olive
#

Yes, I too want cannoli in game, glad the GMs are in on this 😆

proud seal
odd pebble
proud seal
odd pebble
faint spear
#

We have tiramisu in game already. We are getting there

hot rivet
burnt pendant
civic escarp
#

That's why I say if the game keeps being run, there will always be a video concept to make or discussion to be had.

humble cape
night lodge
humble cape
#

There's a bunch of underground rooms you can't get into from the outside (that I'm aware of) except for using ranger TRACK.

#

I went there to acquire alchemy ingredients couldn't find any, used track and wound up underground with shamblers in someplace that wasn't on the map. Was able to get out of it just fine. Tried to get back in and couldn't find a pathway at all.

nocturne valve
#

There was an area like that I found on Teras.
TRACK is fun

humble cape
#

Track is awesome. I use it all the time in the confluence

hot rivet
civic escarp
#

Things most people don't know but at least one community member does. That's the good stuff we should capture for history.

humble cape
#

The institutional knowledge that this community has is awesome (and kind of scary).

opal arrow
#

I wonder if the cheese wheel can make ricotta....

#

Or is it Marzcapone.

#

I never remember

civic escarp
#

Someone here probably knows the answer. Not me though.

scenic grail
#

It does both

#

We might have made up an Elanthia word for marscapone

chilly apex
opal arrow
#

(clearly not Italian and why I didn't know how to spell the cheese.)

#

So now we just need fried tube rolls

humble cape
#

...can someone take the timer off the papermaking thread?

odd pebble
coral lantern
odd pebble
alpine quarry
coral lantern
#

Brb visiting Roh with a pail in hand

faint spear
#

....what the heck did I just read

odd pebble
chilly apex
#

Go go make cheese.

mental anchor
#

And buy milk. Support your local dairy maids.

night lodge
humble cape
#

I still miss Nilandia.

mental anchor
#

I appreciate GMs saying goodbye in discord vs them disappearing and we find out 6+ months later. Not sure if that’s a policy change or if they’ve made a personal decision to announce it.

hardy sedge
#

It's also very nice, as a player, to be be able to say one last round of thanks and goodbye to those who are no longer staff.

mental anchor
#

I’m not sure if the attrition is more or less than normal. It’s sad to see people leave and sometimes it feels like losing a friend. However, I can’t fault anyone for doing so. Especially when they’ve been around for multiple years.

night olive
#

Dorper Sweet in a fried roll tube, make it happen!

lusty sedge
#

The attrition is more than normal, but it's good to remember that 0 is also not normal. So it's high, but don't look at the whole number and think that it would normally have been none. Also, as we come off the pandemic etc. people really are moving on with their lives. That said, I agree that a farewell address being allowed would be good, although I can also understand that not everybody wants to make such an address, especially if they're leaving for reasons beyond their control such as family or life emergencies etc.

night lodge
#

In kind and as we have seen a few times in the last year, when goodbye messages from departing staff are deleted through moderation, it raises eyebrows about what's going on behind the scenes.

jade wraith
#

We had a lot of contractors in the startup I worked at . It was common practice regardless of whether they were let go or they left on their own to not post comments our customers would be able to read. I dont think folks should look into that too much.

burnt willow
#

I am just going to put a really weird aside here. I spent the last several hours wondering who "jArA" was because it reads as "Jay A R A". And totally confused like "they seem like they're not new but I don't remember that name". Then I had my screen reader go letter by letter and realized ... "oh. It's Jara." (My screen reader pronounced it as "Hara" before without the camel case.) You may go back to your regular program. I had to share my sudden dawning comprehension.

scenic locust
#

I look at the videos from their perspective. Some I agree. Some I disagree. But appreciate the voices.

civic escarp
#

I'd really like to see and hear more GemStone voices on YouTube with fresh uploads. GS isn't and shouldn't just be one or two people's perspectives. It's a game for everyone and whatever an individual wants to try to get out of it. I prioritize buying perfumes over any item over 6x but that's just me.

faint spear
#

I'm thinking my next video series is going to be ASC hunting ground guides

#

Seems relevant and I don't think folks know much about them if they haven't tried. I'm sort of waiting for spell disabler review to come out though, because a lot of info might immediately become wrong after

civic escarp
civic escarp
scenic locust
#

I'll wait for the Ascension. I know there are guides for rogues, but I really want someone to do a rogue one. Hell, have a panel.

I feel a lot of it tends to facilitate play, and some classes have to rely on different mix-ups.

somber dew
#

veers furhter offtopic! well now I want to know how Avaluka's screen reader pronounces Claedesbrim

civic escarp
#

K+ladies+brim. kladiesbrim

night olive
#

I miss the podcast, someone break Milax out of the glass again

burnt willow
#

Or is that a b and not a p.

somber dew
#

with a b, but yeah it's close I usually do "klade-es-brim"

burnt willow
#

Screen reader gets weird with camelcase stuff or if you alternate capital and lowercase letters. Like that meme thing where people do that to indicate .... outrage? Comical outrage? Over the top complaining? I dunno.

somber dew
#

I didn't make that word up so I am less sticky about the pronunciation than I am say, "Aelotoi" or "Cysaegir" 😄

burnt willow
#

Eel-oh-toy. Sigh-say-jer.

somber dew
#

ooh you're close on Cysaegir... "sigh sah gear" or "sigh suh gear". Aelotoi has a hard a sound, so Ay-low-toy

steady hinge
#

YES

somber dew
#

It's the State of Elanthia Punctuation! Channel name change please! 😎

burnt willow
#

I can technically teach the screen reader to pronounce things correctly, but I'm often too lazy to do so and then we'd be without the hilarity of me mispronouncing things in person at Simucon because "that's how my screen reader pronounces it and it's stuck like that in my brain now".

proud seal
#

IIRC, Thandiwe said Cysaegir is actually Kiss-ay-gur. Hard C sound.

somber dew
#

recognizes that Xeraphina is just trying to get him riled up...

proud seal
#

Not my fault if it's supposed to be gaelic/celtic.

scenic locust
burnt willow
#

I catch myself saying "lich" as "lick" frequently because that's how the screen reader pronounces it.

proud seal
#

Google says it's "ch" not "ck" and google is never wrong.

sweet orbit
#

They can’t put it on the internet if it’s not true.

steady hinge
#

I mispronounced lich like leech forever

night olive
scenic locust
#

I just thought Lich was German.

night olive
#

Lich liebe Lich

civic escarp
storm sphinx
mental anchor
hot meadow