#[Ebon Gate] Herb Hunt and Trick-or-Treat

147 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

tender kindle
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Both the Herb Hunt (HH) and Trick-or-Treat (ToT) will open in the afternoon on October 1st. Rewards mirror last year with a few upgrades to HH. Last year, the SimuCoin Store items were, in my opinion, lacking, with the majority being temp enhancive potions. This year, they are exactly the same as Rumor Wood's Pixie Hunt and Fox Hunt, which is a much higher valuation.

Trove tokens do not drop, as mentioned in the https://discord.com/channels/226045346399256576/1153419385671790652 post. ToT is guaranteed to giving 2 pieces of candy though. The candy is a tiered item that gives pretty decent rewards. I have updated the rewards on the wiki pages to reflect what they are now.

https://gswiki.play.net/Trick-or-Treat
https://gswiki.play.net/Herb_Hunt

Trick-or-Treat
Herb Hunt
twin anchor
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Glad to hear HH is getting some upgrades! And the tokens not dropping is great imo - love the new trove structure. I understand the removal of EoR (even if I am bummed about it). It would be nice if there was some sort of higher-end, low-likelihood drop from ToT, like a pet or something. I personally think those little "oooh did I get it?" moments make the mini game more fun. But I like the candy, so I'll be doing ToT either way!

timber peak
twin quail
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at RW the hunt skill checks were made significantly easier this year (notably to make it possible to 100% pass the checks). was this change also made for the herb hunt, or is that still using the same skill check difficulties as last year?

tender kindle
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Let me double check, but I'm pretty sure we modeled the updates to RW off EG.

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Yeah HH is easier, BUT, let me just mirror it entirely.

twin quail
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thank you for taking a look!

tender kindle
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Okay it's an exact mirror for rewards and skill checks. There were some minor differences. So you can get up to 400 soul shards, the skill checks are like 25% to 50% better at all times.

knotty shale
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Was I on so many pain pills last year that I just THOUGHT there was exp running Trick or Treat?

There is deffo none now, unless you happen to get pulled in to a room with a ghost.

😦

twin quail
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as I recall, trick or treat only ever offered experience when you got ghosts, because the flat experience at the end depends on the number of ghosts you fought

knotty shale
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I see, so when you get no ghosts ... you see no extra exp at the end.

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I wish I had control over how many ghosts I could find! 🙂 A girl must find 50k experience this week AND still Festival-ize! Somehow!

crude rain
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Unless they downed the encounter Rate ToT was crazy xp. I think 2,000 was the max exp from one run?

tender kindle
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Statistically, you should get 2 ghosts per entry into ToT. This was toned down from 2021 where it was 3.

crude rain
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Yeah, but outliers still mean you can get a lot more. On top of that you can get other people's when they either die or just have bad scripts that screw it up

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I remember it being pretty common having to kill other people's. Haven't done any this year yet but will soon.

knotty shale
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My 50k requirement per week needs more ghosts, I guess. Or less requirements during a Festival.

languid furnace
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I do wish ToT had some kind of rare drop as well, like the mandrakes. Though I've done most of my runs this time already

tender kindle
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ToT is more guaranteed, and the candy can give really great rewards at the top.

stoic canopy
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Nothing wrong with ToT in its current form, although I do agree with Vishra… it’s sort of boring now. A jackpot, progressive item or something else to chase would increase the fun factor, I think.

The rewards are certainly adequate though.

oak depot
spark arch
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...the candy...is progressive?

stoic canopy
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Yes the candy is progressive, but it’s also guaranteed per run. I found ToT to be rather tedious when I needed to do hundreds and hundreds of runs, with nothing exciting to look out for

I mean, it’s fine, just a bit boring. I found myself more interested in wrapping up ToT as fast as possible and getting back out to my hunting grounds

I’ll probably switch to HH next year. Even with a lower average soul shard payout, hunting for a mandrake would make me happier I suspect

languid furnace
tender kindle
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I do think we go in some weird circles. I know Discord doesn't represent the majority of players, but we get into this cycle of jackpots vs no jackpots a lot.

stoic canopy
crude rain
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I think a lot of the nuance gets lost in the noise and outrage. To me, unique prizes as jackpots, bad, "unlimited" items that only provide a thing you could get elsewhere, good

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Like... bonus xp will always be a bonus, I don't have to win a jackpot to get it, but 50k bonus xp is nice. But years ago, jackpots were the only way to get most auction grade wins. That was too far the other diection.

oak depot
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If you want to gamble, have you tried going to a casino?

drifting nacelle
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I think this came up in a separate conversation awhile back already with suggestions to allow more player choice in rewards for these types of paid events.

Duskruin is still the best in that regard of giving the player agency of choice.

crude rain
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Tot candy is pretty awesome in allowing choice. It's weird how many people think it's garbage.

tender kindle
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While I get that people call things like the jackpots gambling, it's not. You don't risk any loss, you sometimes find more. If a payback percentage is 88% at a casino, you're not getting $88 back for every $100, but you'd get on average $88 back on every $100 you spend over the lifetime of the game. In slot machines, there are over 6 billion stops. You never lose anything in GS pay events. You get a value for what you buy in, and sometimes you walk away with even more. We don't have lootboxes or anything that gives you lesser value, you always get what you should get when you play the game. Obviously there are things like disconnecting or dying that can prevent full rewards. There is also finding a way to exploit it which can cause you to lose everything when a GM confiscates it. But that's not normal.

crude rain
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Like... it's worth just shy of 60 simucoins per run.

drifting nacelle
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Tot candy is ok but not a fan of something that really requires a scripted solution to make it manageable

twin quail
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I think the treat bags are like 80% of the way to managing candy seamlessly

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Just need a verb to unwrap everything and a verb that matches three of the currently selected candy (and they could even be the same verb)

crude rain
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Sure, shells bought some of the shelf items... but that eas maybe 50k. I needed something for the 1.5 million I didn't sell to warclaidh.

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That said... I'm also not in the ToT needs anything camp. Just don't put unique prizes back In and I'm happy as a pig in poop.

tender kindle
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Oh I agree there. The early days where we used the digging/multi-game RNG mechanics, it was bad. But we ended it.

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We basically had to adapt very quickly on what management wanted, and we didn't have things where they are now. We had to reskin what we had or build off what we had.

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And no, I'm not management in this case, nor am I currently.

stoic canopy
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Another idea to make ToT a bit more exciting would be to have random “boss” or special mobs that provide some LTE when killed. They don’t need to be particularly difficult… just rareish spawns. Anything to spice up the monotony of doing the exact same routine over and over again

tender kindle
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That could be a fun idea.

crude rain
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My take is that if herb hunt gave candy I could at least switch activities. But the rewards aren't worth it to change

tender kindle
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I'd have to look at the boss code some. I know the creature part was not very liked originally.

oak depot
tender kindle
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Eventually the item management stuff will be resolved.

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At least to a large degree.

crude rain
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Great balls of meat?

vale thicket
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There will be another game next year. We already have it mapped out. It will be non-combat. I actually think it is going to be pretty fun. I am frequently wrong, but I am excited for it.

covert dock
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Bring back digging, but shovels cost shards (similar to fishing)?

drifting nacelle
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Good lord no.

languid furnace
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Please no

oak depot
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(It's going to use cubes.) Unless that was just a request to bring back digging.

covert dock
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I have fond memories of the last DR dig. That was my only digging, so maybe it’s a skewed opinion.

languid furnace
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Me too. I had been looking for a knockout flaring OHB for years, and I pulled out this great Knockout + Unbalance flaring octomace. I'll never forget that

low spindle
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I am a fan of digging. Or some other games like that where a simucoin entry isn't the fee.

oak depot
spark arch
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I would absolutely dig for the T3 or T4 pile stuff.

low spindle
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I dunno. I liked seeing stuff that came out of digging when we didn't have lists and stuff. I appreciate it's not for everyone but I will continue to support everything doesn't have to be for everyone in the game. Options are great.

Gems are a given. A chance at rare to rarer fodder, already in bar/branch form so it goes into the apparatus. Chances to win back the currency spent to enter.

But also the greatest pile stuff we ever had was that year of Caligos that had like the elemental pants and the socks. Those enhancives that also look great, just take unique longs and stuff. Also the clothing that got added to Premium Fest games this year was great too. I see so many people wearing those kimonos.

drifting nacelle
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Anything for silvers is fine imo to clarify. Folks want to dig with silvers have at it.

It's just really really poor design and I question anyone that finds hours upon hours of digging fun.

The prize piles that have a one hour timer work best imo because you paid a silver fee, got a thing, and moved on.

oak depot
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A chance at rare to rarer fodder, already in bar/branch form so it goes into the apparatus.

I think that would be pretty popular, actually. But they sell them OTS for simucoins.

crude rain
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digging only had to happen for that many hours because it was the avenue to jackpots. With a cap at T4 prizes, at that point it's more likely people will only dig for a couple hours, get "all" the prizes, or at least enough to trade for the onese they want, and be done with it for the year

low spindle
low spindle
oak depot
low spindle
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Everything I mentioned is required for alters. ??

spark arch
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glaes is required for alters.

oak depot
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Hmm, either I haven't asked for those materials in a while, or I got lucky.

Also, we need a better rarity table on the wiki. Anyone have a link to that 1-9 rarity list that circulated, I'm going to make some changes to Category:Materials so you can rank by rarity and it shows something meaningful instead of wondering how the rarity rankings actually work.

Very Common 1
Very Common 2
Common 3
Uncommon 4
Infrequent 5
Infrequent 6
Rare 7
Very Rare 8
Very Rare 9
Extremely Rare 10
low spindle
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Oh is it that time again? throws that chart down the well

vale thicket
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Anything 7 and above needs fodder.

oak depot
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It's annoying that there are 2 numbers for the same category name. Let's get rid of that.

1-7, 5 or above = required

vale thicket
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What?

oak depot
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The numbers go 1-10, but there are 2 numbers for the same name. Why? It's unnecessary.

vale thicket
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I'm telling you very clearly. Anything 7 or above needs fodder.

oak depot
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I didn't dispute that? Try rereading what I said.

vale thicket
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I mean, I cause we could rename 2 to "incrementally less common than 1" or 6 could be "incrementally more infrequent than 5", but its a range.

oak depot
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A range with no meaning. If 7 >= fodder, you need fodder for both 8 and 9, which are both named Very Rare. Why? It's unnecessary unless I'm missing something.

languid furnace
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You are almost assuredly missing something

vale thicket
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and its a range that is 30 years old at this point that would require dozens of systems that use it to be updated

oak depot
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I'm not saying update any backend systems.

What do we need fodder for? "Anything above 7." Why is 8 & 9 labeled very rare? "Because the game is old."

Why don't we just REFER TO THEM as 1-7 instead of 1-10? "Because change is hard."

low spindle
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Whatever works on the backend, ok. But there is the point that like I've never been asked to provide platinum in a design versus I'm always asked to provide vaalin.

Having a merchant rarity chart of what we are expected to provide would be awesome.

vale thicket
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Its a rarity range, Alastir. I mean, I could just rename those if you'd like. 8 is less rare than 9. So I'll use a synonym. We can call 9 sparcer.

drifting nacelle
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You should have to provide platinum as it is a rare 7 material but there are probably inconsistencies because you have a lot of GMs using a system that is fairly massive and not easily memorized

oak depot
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Is there any meaningful difference between 8 and 9 besides. "We want to think of it as slightly more rare." (But it makes no actual difference in any way.)

One is slightly more Very Rare than the other Very Rare.

idk it just doesn't make sense to me?

vale thicket
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Yes, 9 should be rarer than 8 but this is rather a semantics issue.

drifting nacelle
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Very Common 1
Very Common 2
Common 3
Uncommon 4
Infrequent 5
Infrequent 6
Rare 7
Very Rare 8
Very Rare 9
Extremely Rare 10```

Also full context, Wyrom says this scale is ancient.
oak depot
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But apparently it has backend meaning, so it's still required. FWIW, anyway. I've updated the wiki so you can sort by rarity now.

AND back to the topic of digging, yes. Give us alter fodder at 7+ rarity.

spark arch
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Could limit it to stuff not sold at the Antiquarian

quiet compass
arctic jetty
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I miss the prize piles from caligos

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It was a great way to get your random reward fix for those who like it. Of course, the moment people started getting refunds and others couldnt, i noped out. But if it was brought back in a clear form with transparent prizes, i would be happy to pull

arctic jetty
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But this was sort of the convo that was being had in the antiquarian folder. If we arent going to be asked for things, why did I spend cash to get them?

vale thicket
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Vaalin is rarity 7.... so that's odd.

arctic jetty
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I tried to hand them the vaalin. They literally said no. I even went and spent 200k silver at a playershop to get vaalin before that merchant. Felt really bad

vale thicket
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Weird. I've been working in the background to ensure that we are all on the same page.

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Hopefully, this happens less and not more.

arctic jetty
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I dont doubt it. Its just one of those things where id like to know that the things i consider loot goals in game (getting desireable alter fodder) has more meaning and not less

tender kindle
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Obviously the rarity range predates my time on staff, but I don't think the numbers were ever meant to make it to players originally with a direct number to rarity chart. It's like the old drop systems were "common, uncommon, rare, very rare, ultra rare" or "junk, decent, good, unique." Unique was commonly swapped out for the word jackpot. Those were internal naming systems that aren't very clever. We've mostly been moving to common, uncommon, rare, epic, legendary, and ascended, with the last one not being related to ascension, just the absolute sky is the limit type stuff.

So on the GM side, 8 and 9 have the same name, because we don't even use the names. We say rarity 8 or rarity 9. In the past, we've approved something like "You can offer 5 rarity 8 materials and 2 rarity 9 materials this year." Pay events have changed this quite a bit, since rarity 10 things can be bought and don't have a limit. But if you're ever curious why only one of something happened 10 or 15 years ago, that's why, we have a rarity range that was sent for approvals.

If it helps, we can simply rename the numbers. But the only important part are the numbers. The words in this case are meaningless. They are simply to help illustrate what the range is.

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Digging is getting a rewrite. It's one of the many tasks I started that I've just not had a whole lot of time to work through. I'm working on getting some of my tasks to other GMs who are willing to work on them so I can focus on some projects though. I don't think I'd ever explore digging as a microtrans expense again, but silvers or general tickets are definitely a plan in the future. The idea is to make it manageable without having to create endless numbers of unique items. Toward the end of digging, GMs needed to make thousands of items and we were constantly running out.

arctic jetty
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I think a huge part of the problem is these are the pages where players look first. And if very rare 8 and very rare 9 have meaning to GMs but not to players, then we cant really act on the info we are provided.

At this point, why have rarity? Yes fodder. No fodder. Done and dusted?

image0.jpg
crude rain
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The yes fodder no fodder aligns pretty well with "rarity 7 and up needs fodder" and then just abandon the words entirely too. While common/uncommon/rare are common terms In mmos, players are also used to numerical scales. So rather than needing to redo much of anything, just go pure numbers with a threshold. Internally the rarity scale probably needs to stay, but if gms use numbers, let us use numbers. I'm a big fan of us all speaking the same language.

low spindle
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I think it would be better just to provide a clear list of what is required to be provided and throw that table away from a player-facing perspective. That table doesn't include the dozenish cultural documents that have been released. I'm constantly pulling up those and linking them to some of the staff who weren't involved in their creation during merchant opportunities. I've had GMs say things needed to be provided as fodder simply because they were sold for crafting items like the smelter or Woodchopper box.

And I also think things in rarity 7 need review but having a clear external list of must be provided would help.

vale thicket
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This is just a quick and dirty list, but these items should require fodder:
adamantine
aganjira
Agita
akuet-colored star-seeking toadstool
alexandrite
Aragless
aranthium
Arathiel
Ataela
auroralaen
Balenite
Baystone
black-alloy
bleakstone
Cloudsilk
coraesine
drakar
drakewood
eahnor
ekata
electrum
elesine
eonake
faenor
Firefly Glass
fireleaf
firewheel
firewheel
ghezyte
ghostwood leaves
glaes
glowbark
golvern
gornar
high-steel
illthorn
ipantor
Irikaen
iron boar hide
Ithaenil
kelyn
Kish fur
klysmar
Ko'nag
krodera
kroderine
Lasimor
lor
low-steel
mein
mervaer
mithglin
Naiquard
naraina
Nhil'mon skin
ora-black
ora-white
orchard naiquard
platinum
qiviut
razern
rhimar
river naiquard
rolaren
Rosesilk
Rusalkan
Rusalkita
rusalkita
Rusalkoren
rusalkoren
Rusalkysk
rusalkysk
Rusylka
saenira
sephwir
shadarl
sirenglass
Skyglass
somnis
starsedge
su'chao silk
sunrise naiquard
sunset naiquard
surita
Taesssaet
Taqitzka, Turquoise
ur-barath
urglaes
urnon
vaalin
vaalorn
veil-iron
veniom
Vergless
vethinye
white-alloy
Widowwood
witchwood
wyrwood
xan'ayra
xazkruvrixis
zelnorn
zorchar
zydris

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Please note, I've probably missed an item or two.

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But that's the jist of it.

low spindle
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Can we get that on the wiki? I also think merry wood forest silk, erithi gems are missing. Rift/HW other capped based areas gems/skins.

But even that list alone as a reference point is incredibly helpful, thank you.

vale thicket
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If I can be honest, I just can't take on another project right now and putting that up on the wiki (for me) is a project

low spindle
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You can always be honest and that's totally fair.

arctic jetty
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That list is very helpful. Maybe a friendly Envoy could find a way to reproduce that and pin it to the Alteration Help thread?

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One of the curious features of reading the list is that some of the things on there are normal, real world metals but almost never show up in game. I gotta corner that electrum market!

spark arch
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I think I've maybe been asked for electrum once.

low spindle
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I've only been asked for electrum at YQ at that seemed more roleplay based than fodder requirements.

oak depot
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I think that list could use some pruning.

spark arch
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...I dunno why platinum or electrum are on the list, tbh. I've never been asked for platinum.

torpid gorge
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I can put that list on the wiki.

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I am taking the liberty of changing typoes (such as removing the hyphens for black alloy and high steel) and removing duplicates while keeping this as a saved post. I hope that is okay.

drifting nacelle
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Now we just need a list for gems =p

spark arch
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give me a few minutes.

vale thicket
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This page already existed, but I added a table. I can't maintain this table and someone may need to make it prettier but this is what I can do for now.
https://gswiki.play.net/Alter_fodder

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I did not see that Shan was working on this.

torpid gorge
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Way better than what I was working on which was just a saved post with links!

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Thank you for sharing the list! I know it'll be very helpful for me.

low spindle
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This is incredible. 😍

vale thicket
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It isn't everything. I'm sure I forgot things. Xynwen did a lot to help polish some of the definitions I threw together and to fix my wrongly marked things.

spark arch
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It's a major lift for a starting point.

stoic canopy
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I have to say, having just tried Herb Hunt for the first time this morning, I really enjoyed it. The painting of the rooms is absolutely beautiful (whoever did the Bittermere Woods has a fantastic creative mind and writes incredibly well), and the game itself isn’t bad. Will definitely be doing more of this for the rest of the festival + next year

glad cliff
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I am a bit confused on what determines success in finding the toadshade in HH or if i have missed something. Right now I am 66 entries in with only 13 toadshades found. This is with 1x survival using forage. Is this the intented rate for that skillset?

steel shuttle
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Pretty much, yes (1.25 x perception using SENSE):

Herb Hunt Entries: 824
Number of Toadshades Found: 44

glad cliff
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gotcha. Thanks Rohese!

steel shuttle
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There's a lot of luck involved too as you have to find the right room where the toadshade is located

glad cliff
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Wish we could do something with these abandoned herb sacks. Also, when you see it pop up and run X direct do you follow it? Does it matter/help?

steel shuttle
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As far as I'm aware, that messaging just indicates the toadshade is not in that room. No need to chase it.

topaz herald
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Just wanted to drop my thanks to the staff who created these mandrakes, I was lucky enough to get one on Kothos today and am over the moon about it! Main EG wish right there, you all rock 🧡

steel shuttle
topaz herald
steel shuttle
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LOL how perfect is that

topaz herald
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I know, right? What did Roh get?

steel shuttle
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illthorn

topaz herald
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Oh, so great! Congratulations my friend!

steel shuttle
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Thank you! Roh can't wait to play "dress up" with the pretty little girl -- Mirkk has yet to see their new toddler 😄

low spindle
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Now we just need the Arboretum to make the mandrake playground and splash pool.

steel shuttle
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Where do I sign to make that happen?

quiet compass
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How many mandrakes have gone out so far in Herb Hunt this year?

signal blaze
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I'm pretty sure it's just the two.