#[Ebon Gate] Return of the Trove

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

fossil raft
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The rack isn't saying. In the Parlor. I've tried look at, look on, look in. Do we only see something if we're the winner?

I love the trove system so far (this is my first ever time participating with the trove) - drawings once every 24 hours and have 24 hours to pick up the item if you win, and don't even have to be online.

void helm
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If you are the winner, it tells you.

slow oyster
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Anyway you will definitely know if you won because the game sends you a lot of messaging as I understand it

north sable
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Yea I just want to see who won. I know about the monsterbold echo. Would be neat to see a list of the winners like when someone wins a raffle it gets posted to the newsby raffle page for the month

empty ruin
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I see 4 items on a circular tray and 1 item on a shelf, how do I know which item is being troved

bitter thunder
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It is a mystery itisamystery

fossil raft
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The shelf item is the one currently up.

void helm
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The one on the shelf is always the one pu for raffle

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Everything else is a preview so you can see the stats.

slow oyster
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new items up: puppet familiar, custom swear, lesser ezscript, custom bolt

empty ruin
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looks like the 3 rooms to the north are the fluff troves, and the one where you enter the bldg is the serious trove?

void helm
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And, the reason the winners were removed is because people felt attacked for winning. They would be ganged up on to sell things, or get whispers that made them feel bad for being lucky.

#

Well, delayed services are serious for some people, Gob, but yes, I suppose that is one way to look at it 🙂

vital dock
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I would like to be a victim of winning. Alas, raffle luck.

plucky marlin
hollow steppe
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I rely on the friends I made along the way to tell me if I won or not.

limpid matrix
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Delayed services are the real GS endgame.

On that note, what is a "lesser" EZ script?

slow oyster
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new items on trays: elegant bloody red hand (+10 HP +10 brawling T4 blood red hand), custom major sanct, sonic armor, custom swear

gleaming hamlet
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I for one liked the playershop raffles, the winners available at anytime via verb and you see REAL ppl winning

void helm
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3-verbs, Avawren

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Greater is 5.

vivid laurel
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What's on the property trove shelf, anyone know?

fossil raft
steady mango
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The only way to see who won is to physically be there when the drawing happens. Was a welcome change imo. Being harrassed for winning is the worst.

mood messaging Erek

gleaming hamlet
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I mean its not really harassment if ppl give you valid offers.... grow a backbone and say "no thanks, I am keeping my win"

vital dock
gleaming hamlet
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(little does Alastir know, it was one of his alts spamming 50m for win, 50m for win, you give me now!)

steel flume
#

can it be posted what the messaging is when you win and aren't online?

empty ruin
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I would imagine if a single person got lucky and won multiple times, that could cause an outrage. The no name reveal system circumvents that too.

latent idol
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There's no could about it

vital dock
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Is it a reasonable reaction, or an unreasonable reaction, to be <whatever> about someone winning all the artifically scarce prizes?

steel flume
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We had multiple win at Premium Fest, someone's alt won like 3 in row. And the only people who said anything were the two conspiracy theorists in Discord. But I do agree, it feels very hypothetical and just removing the name seems like a worse fix than figuring out who is harassing someone and removing them from the community.

latent idol
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I mean, I'm all for removing this person. But I settle for blocking.

vital dock
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Would it break the game if 10 people won a custom swear vs 3?

steady mango
gleaming hamlet
empty ruin
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are the trove tokens attuned?

steady mango
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No

latent idol
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No, but you can only put in one per character with a pass per trove

plucky goblet
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It's not game-breaking, no, but every custom swear/signature verb/ezscript/mood messaging/bugs/etc requires two GMs worth of work.

#

One to back-and-forth with the player until something is settled, one to QC it, then back to the original to make the thing happen.

gleaming hamlet
plucky goblet
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It's not about artificial scarcity or anything of sort. These things take resources and are distributed accordingly.

vivid laurel
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Hey an interesting idea for some Guidebook feature creep would be for it to list what's on the shelf of each trove. Maybe not the trays since that's a lot of lines, but it seems like a cool feature to show what's up next.

old anvil
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I approve this message.

analog orbit
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I wish there was a way of seeing if you won quickly if you were offline or not actually THERE for the win. I logged off and on to see if a message came up and since nothing did I assume I didn't win which is fine. How do you even claim something if you did win? Grab it off the shelf? All the items are off the shelf so that must mean they've all already been claimed? Just trying to understand so I don't mess up if I ever do win. 🙂

slow oyster
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the won item is on the rack

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and if you won you can take it from the rack

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I am told there is a very visible and repeating message if you win a trove but if you are worried you can always just go try to rob all the racks haha

#

the game will tell you "sorry, you did not win that so GET LOST"

old anvil
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I may or may not have tried that and got the go kick rocks message.

analog orbit
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Ok that's awesome. So we can just try to get anything we entered to see if we won.

gleaming hamlet
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I do not think it is unreasonable for there to be a verb to check since most ppl are probably not waiting at 9pm every night for 25 days. I just had to log out and log in all my alts to check. it is annoying.

slow oyster
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Most of the racks are already empty because the actual winners came and got the items

steady mango
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Yeah we need a verb so we can flash the monster bold message at our leisure!

empty ruin
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is the talisman the first item for that trove or did I already miss the first item?

slow oyster
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You missed the first drawing

south granite
latent idol
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How often does it repeat. Once a minute or something?

old anvil
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You won't miss the original message if you are online.

empty ruin
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what time does the trove pick a winner

analog orbit
#

6pm pacific/9pm eastern every night seems like

steady mango
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The first trove picked at 9:05pm est

solid hull
void helm
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Congratulations! You are now the proud owner of (item)! Return to the raffle area to collect your item. Please note that you will not be able to enter another raffle until you have done so. In addition, items not picked up before the next raffle draws will be forfeit!

#

That's the message you get (repeatedly) in monster bold, if you won

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The minute you log in

slow oyster
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You should be logging in your alts anyway! I’m not giving you any credit for making you do something that was ALREADY OPTIMAL

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that’s a skill issue!

gleaming hamlet
empty ruin
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what was the first item in trove 4 that was won? is the list on wiki?

steady mango
analog orbit
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I've never gone to a paid ebon gate so I'm just trying to find my way. I was worried it might be like other raffles where the message is only once and SUPER easy to miss if you're hunting or running the arena or something. I didn't wanna miss a message but it looks like you're not gonna miss it. It's gonna be giant, repeated to the point of harrassment and in bold or a different color and immediately when you login. That's good to know. Thanks for the info!

latent idol
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Clearly they need to change the "repeatedly" to be every 2 seconds to make people happy

limpid matrix
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I hope whoever won that gorgeous mask knows there are some Barbie aligned people who would pay a pretty pile of silver for it ...

(or just appreciates how beautiful it is themselves)

gleaming hamlet
solid hull
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did you guys not know the votive message meant you won the trove? man you all forfeit a lot of wins. /s

bitter thunder
whole shard
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There should be a way to check if you have won in an affirmative manner. I realize we have decided listing winners on tickets is an archaic violation of privacy, but surely there is a better way of checking than logging in and out.

nocturne grove
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Do it the old-fashioned way: if there's still an item on the rack by the time you get there late, try to get it. 😛

slow oyster
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unironically that's what I did

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JUST TO BE SURE

nocturne grove
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Right, it's what people used to do all the time (and some probably still do). Because it makes sense.

rich coral
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I knew I didn't win one of the things, but it was on the rack so... JUST TO MAKE SURE...

nocturne grove
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Especially if you're in a scenario where it's like 12+ hours later and something's still there... man, I'd try to grab it every time.

bitter thunder
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I don't think it's a huge deal but it's silly

nocturne grove
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I'm talking about what makes sense for players to do that's within their abilities.

I don't necessarily know what makes sense for the Trove design from a coding standpoint (I like it as it is, but saying this in reference to people who want changes), but this idea of sending prizes by mail isn't it.. it's way easier to miss the three-word message that you've got mail than to miss the huge message that you've won at the Trove.

rich coral
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yeah, it's really not that hard to find some point in time within 24 hours to check if you won a thing, just logging in it's like a 3-4 line message it's really hard to miss

void helm
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We can always just go back to no trove. I wanted to give this a try and it is clearly not going to work as people are still displeased with it. We can go back to the oldfashion raffle system and call it a failed experiment.

gleaming hamlet
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Trove good, communications of Trove win: could be improved (more feedback than anything)

bitter thunder
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Just turn off the game! Show's over!

nocturne grove
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People will dislike the old raffle system even more because they have to be logged in. Nothing can please everybody.

Edit: And the Trove is phenomenal. 😄

void helm
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Logging in to find out you won shouldn't be an issue?

slow oyster
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yeah I think this is much better tbh

void helm
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Its literally messaging you to tell you won the MINUTE you log in.

empty ruin
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for the private property trove, you gotta get a token from the other trove room and then go to A Roof Over and use it?

void helm
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Yes, through the door, Gob.

bitter thunder
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I also think it's better than raffles, and just think it could be improved, but I guess we're turning this car around

rich coral
void helm
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How much more improvement do you want us to do? Our job is to get you in the game. Logging in to find out if you won something from the game you play isn't complicated.

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And you don't have to do it right away

bitter thunder
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I honestly don't know how to offer feedback about anything without this reaction from you so I'll duck out of this conversation

void helm
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You have 24 hours.

empty ruin
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go door
A narrow whitewashed door is only for residents of regular private properties.

void helm
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I'm being very serious, Yipsy. Asking us to find a means of communicating beyond the confines of the game for a win seems incredibly unreasonable to me. My job is to get you in the game.

old anvil
vivid laurel
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I have no sympathy for anyone who wants an out of game message for an in-game win. Log in.

steel flume
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complainers gonna complain because it feels good. I dunno what else you're supposed to do

void helm
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I mean, we made a huge improvement and leap to allow you to win outside of being logged in.

hoary summit
gleaming hamlet
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I think people want something like the lottery winner verb. Again, just feedback. Is that messaging too manual? (It probably is)

bitter thunder
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I didn't ask for that. I suggested there be an easier way to see if you won than going to the room and trying to get things that may or may not be on a stand

void helm
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You don't have to go to the room

slow oyster
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The easy way to see if you won is to wait for the repeating notification

void helm
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You literally log in and it monster bolds YOU WON

steel flume
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I mean, I guess mailing it to them would be the next logical step..but dunno if updating the system for that is worth it.

And I'm guessing the message you get replays? it's just not a log in one and done?

empty ruin
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it wont let me in and I own a home

Usage:
    PROPERTY MINE      - Information on your private properties
    PROPERTY FLAG INFO - See flag settings for your property you are present in
    PROPERTY FLAG {FAMILIAR | LOCATE | SAFEHAVEN | TELEPORT}
                       - Toggles flag settings for the room you are in```
void helm
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Gob, can you type PROPERTY and tell me what you see?

#

I might have to update something.

rich coral
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you also need a service pass (just making sure)

gleaming hamlet
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mailing it means they dont have to worry as much about the deadline which is also a good benefit

slow oyster
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I mentioned getting from the rack because people worry about missing the notification, but it’s hard to imagine you missing the notification when it repeats over and over until you get the item

vivid laurel
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Try a PROPERTY MINE, Gob

hoary summit
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As if my 900k bloodscrip property isn't enough of a service pass ;O

nocturne grove
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Congratulations! You are now the proud owner of a singing sword certificate! Return to the raffle area to collect your item. Please note that you will not be able to enter another raffle until you have done so. In addition, items not picked up before the next raffle draws will be forfeit!
It's super, super hard to miss the message. It's long and monsterbold!

empty ruin
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PROPERTY MINE
You do not own a private property.

vivid laurel
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We got a live one, Thandiwe! 😄 Property Clerks, assemble!

nocturne grove
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Premium houses aren't private properties, if that's what you have. Oh, guess that's not what you're talking about!

gleaming hamlet
steel flume
slow oyster
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If you have 15 alts you are responsible for buying the fifteen screens!

bitter thunder
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Great! I think we've established already thst you get monsterbold messaging spammed when you win. Now we all know. So we can just wait until next year when we need to be explain it all over again

empty ruin
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I won it at the last DR auction
a small silver key set with a glaesineth orchid
[Elaienaran Haven

hoary summit
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did you redeem it?

and did you email Thandiwe and crew about getting setup as the owner?

nocturne grove
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Any system needs to be explained every year because there are always people who have never participated before.

rich coral
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is it redeemed on the character you are trying to enter with?
property ownership is tied to the character not account

old anvil
empty ruin
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yes, Gob redeemed it, he is living there, he is wearing the key, I got the deed in my locker, I got a token, I got a service pass..

vivid laurel
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someone will fix you up

hoary summit
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did you email Thandiwe and crew about getting it added as your property?

void helm
hollow steppe
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Uh trove is awesome. I don’t get the confusion. Go check if you won if you don’t read the log in messages.

void helm
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I added it to the wiki.

vivid laurel
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Fear not!

plucky goblet
vivid laurel
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ew I hate to say it but I see some Errata on that page 😦

gleaming hamlet
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having the winning message atleast makes me feel better

slow oyster
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That’s a good update

vivid laurel
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- Winning accounts will be locked from raffle participation for 36 hours (1 days). down in the "Additional Information" section listing the HELP text

void helm
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I updated it

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  • Winning accounts will be locked from raffle participation for 36 hours (1 days). THIS IS NOT ACTIVE FOR EBON GATE
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**Trove Clarification Points: **

  • You can buy a token from the gjenganger in Gavelsdown Hall. From the entry GO DOOR.
  • A token costs 100,000 silvers.
  • You can enter only 1 token per trove.
  • You must have a service pass to enter.
  • There are four troves in Gavelsdown Hall. GO ARCH from the entry. The trove through the arch is the items, the troves NORTH are all delayed service troves.
  • The trove pulls at approximately 9 PM EDT every 24 hours for the next 24 days.
  • If you are a private property owner, you can go to The Roof Over and GO DOOR to use your token.
  • If you are in game at the time of the drawing, you will get a notification.
  • if you are NOT in the game at the time of drawing, all you have to do is log in and you will get a monster bold message every few moments reminding you to pick up your prize. The monster bold message is: Congratulations! You are now the proud owner of a singing sword certificate! Return to the raffle area to collect your item. Please note that you will not be able to enter another raffle until you have done so. In addition, items not picked up before the next raffle draws will be forfeit!
  • You have 24 hours to pick up your prize or it is forfeit.
  • You can get your prize from the RACK in the trove room. Only the winner can do this.
void helm
solid hull
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note to self: check this thread later to see if someone complains they missed their prize pickup because they made an alert for literally a singing sword certificate

north sable
north sable
steady mango
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Have to be in the room with the specific trove.

empty ruin
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once you redeem your pass, is it necessary to keep it or can you dispose of it?

slow oyster
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You should keep it, it will turn into an rpa later

nocturne grove
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So... I won that Singing Sword certificate with Leafi (why I had the message on hand), passed it to my bard, and redeemed it, but now it doesn't show under DELAYED for either of them. Did I screw something up? 😄

vital dock
# void helm We can always just go back to no trove. I wanted to give this a try and it is c...

It does, and will work. People are/were displeased because:

  • 1 - It wasn't communicated well, how the winning messaging worked. (I certainly didn't know until Leafiara shared the messaging and details, it wasn't documented anywhere tmk.)
  • 2 - It's difficult to see who won, because all the troves pull at the same time (basically, pretty much) in 4-5 different rooms. We're used to watching raffles draw to see who won. (Think standard raffles.)
  • 3 - Logging in to see if you win, isn't complicated. But in the old raffle system, you could find the raffle spot, look at the ticket on the table and see who won, verifying it wasn't you. The trove system is missing that, so you're asking people to adopt new behaviors which always goes well.

Despite the suggestions, the trove is an improvement over the old raffle system which required being logged in. People have suggested modifications to the trove system as a way to improve the experience, not as criticism that should be considered a failed experiment.
https://youtu.be/0fQTZh7JcWU?t=15

thorny plinth
#

Love the trove setup. I think people just need to get into the swing of it new stuff is scary. people who are like its annoying to have to log in all my alts to see if I won will just complain if we go back to you need to be logged in and present at the time of the raffle. its more work not less work at that point. if you won and log in the message is aggressively spammy its impossible to miss.

I can speak to people getting down right mean about winning multiple raffles at an event, I can also speak to people coming at me on alts and for weeks about wins despite me being like no I dont want to sell this. Some people cant grasp the concept that other people want things too I guess.

steady mango
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But it's all just hypothetical! People don't harass others in dms! Atleast that's what the peanut gallery has to say.

dark wing
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We give Hoy a hard time every time he wins anything. It's practically a GS4 meme at this point.

gleaming hamlet
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He sure "wins" frequently... 🤔

dark wing
sour fox
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One quarter of the fun of trove is trying to pull the item off the shelf.

fervent vault
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is there anywhere tracking what is actively up on the trove other than going there and looking?

dark wing
#

Wiki

fervent vault
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I expected it to be in the guidebook under Raffles, but I guess thats a no?


There are no raffles scheduled at this time in Naidem.```
plucky marlin
dark wing
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Guidebook only supports regular raffles, no current planned support for trove offerings the last time it was brought up a few days ago. I believe they said there will be some regular raffles during EG and so the guidebook will work for those no issue when those raffle tables are set down and become available.

#

Would be amazing if they could be updated to support the various five EG troves.

solid hull
empty ruin
#

so after the troves pick the winners, ppl can then start putting tokens in the drawer for next round?

steady mango
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yes

empty ruin
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do I have to logoff and back on to see the message if I won or not, or will the message spamming begin while logged in, and how frequent is the message?

vernal sun
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my guess is if you're in game and you aren't noticing a you won message, you didn't win.

old anvil
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If you are in Naidem and see all of the "Fresh blood" messages but didn't see a message about winning, you didn't win.

empty ruin
# 
Your faewood runestaff doesn't fit in the drawer's token slot.```
kind of odd, I told it to put token in drawer yet it sensed my runestaff, swapping hands fixed it but looks like a bug none the less
vernal sun
#

it looks at what you're holding in your right hand.

empty ruin
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are the workshops and shrines in the trove nodes also?

vital dock
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I believe they are separate settings.

north sable
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So I won the EZScript from the trove and had a question... can I redeem this at anytime? I got it from the rack just now but I don't have to redeem it in 24 hours correct I can do it when im ready?

hollow steppe
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Within 2 weeks I think was the request

north sable
#

ok cool.

north sable
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Can one win more than 1 trove win? i assume its like normal raffles and its possible with luck to win more than once. If you win is there a time limit or anything for the next time you can enter the trove?

thorny plinth
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yes you can win again no there is no time limit to enter again with the EG trove

ember osprey
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I was also fine with the bunch of nice items but not everything may go out during the Trove. I know others were not... and I admit that the last year's RNG of RNG of RNG was a factor in other's unhappiness about seeing a potential item that may not be offered.

fleet gazelle
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pretty sure they set the number of items and days of running to ensure that every single item will go out, its just a matter of which day it comes up.

ember osprey
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Yes, they did that this year.

lunar furnace
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Hey, no. I like the way the Trove is being handled this year. It gives me a bit of hope that I MIGHT be able to win something.

vital dock
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Oh you sweet summer child. Bless your heart.

tranquil meteor
#

It’s official Alastir is from Georgia

gleaming hamlet
#

they should have a pity reward for those who entered all 100 troves and spent 10m with no wins, maybe like a prename title, "perpetual loser Zhagen"

wanton quartz
#

Denied on the grounds that it is not a title. Probably get approved as a post name. Zhagen the Perpetual Loser

thorny plinth
#

Id really like to see them seperate the pass into merchant and raffle though

void helm
#

You get an RPA orb now

sour fox
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But I will trade a lighten note for your RPAs

thorny plinth
void helm
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Pretty sure....

#

(goes to find link)

latent idol
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#ebon-gate message

void helm
#

Thank you!

latent idol
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Weirdly, I remembered Wyrom mentioning it last year, so I searched for Tear from:theponzz and turns out he reminded everybody again this year.

slow oyster
#

the tray on the east trove has "a tombstone grey announcement" on the tray. is this a custom death message service, or something else? INSPECT reveals it is a delayed service, but not what, and READ says nothing

burnt scroll
#

How to contact GM for won certificate fullfillment - delayed service

#

Should i REDEEM CERTIFICATE first?

old anvil
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That is super exciting about winning one of the raffles. Congrats! I think if you read or analyze it there should be instructions. (I could be wrong).

burnt scroll
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redeemed - GM will contact me soon...

old anvil
#

Perfect! Also start thinking about what you want for your customization now!

burnt scroll
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Oh i had following - to my understanding it should be not more 1024 chars if not mistaken. I got today present froam Jara - special mirror with teleport ability "gilded silver mirror". Jara is very nice person so I will try to imbue this mirror with the song about him to have it memorized forever in GSIV. Unfortunately I cut it down to 1024 chars:

In twilight's dim embrace stands the Great Fisherman Jara, surrounded by whispers of lost souls. Amidst this haunting symphony, Czarna, a Dark Elf sorceress, steps forth, her silver hair shimmering, eyes alight with arcane mysteries.

"Master Jara," she voices, "in this void, I hear birdsong, while others hear only silence."

Meeting her gaze, Jara responds warmly, "Your heart perceives what's hidden to many. As you echo the robin's song, others are ensnared in sorrow."

With a soft chuckle, Czarna replies, "I whistle the robin's joy, but some, in grief, only sing."

As the vision fades, Jara's presence remains, a beacon for wandering spirits in their darkest hour.

vapid igloo
bitter thunder
limpid matrix
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Yes, each verse has a 1024 character limit but there can be multiple verses. The bard sings to the item and gets a new verse each time.

burnt scroll
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@limpid matrix Oh thats great news! Going to multiple then 🙂

limpid matrix
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My vague memory is 5 verses max? But it's been a long time since I wrote one

burnt scroll
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Oh 5x 1024 looks great! Will see whT GM will actually tell me.

latent idol
#

As a warning - you are requesting a custom that includes the name of another player. you will likely need to go through extra steps to get consent from the player during your process, and it MAY not be allowed

burnt scroll
#

Wow! Thats sounds great will go to MAX extra steps!

latent idol
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Yeah. I would be surprised if it's an issue, but there are alter rules regarding player names to prevent bad actors etc.

burnt scroll
#

this all is really absolutely fascinating. No fighting for the ONE unique item in whole game but creating such item...

fair creek
#

I think my last custom loresong was 4 verses so I would suggest working within that but add a fifth just in case!

vivid laurel
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Scroll down to the Loresong section of this page, and you can see an example of a custom one. I think most of them end up being 4 verses but if 5 tells the story then that's probably doable too
https://gswiki.play.net/Moth_Cloak

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The first custom loresong I remember was the one on the Elemental Bows. I need to add that to their wiki page.

vernal sun
#

I can send you the custom loresong I got on something in my property, if you want.

burnt scroll
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oh thats very valuable info! @vernal sun yes please if you can it will be very helpfull.

I see i should also add reaction to each verse like:
A gilded silver mirror flutters in XXX's hand as she sings to it.

I understand XXX will be replaces automaticaly

hoary summit
burnt scroll
#

Si what is your opinion about following 4 verses:

Verse 1:
As Czarna sings, she finds herself within twilight's embrace beside Great Fisherman Jara. Her dark elven glow contrasts Jara's age-old wisdom. Lost souls' murmurs surround them, their yearning reaching out from the void.

Reaction:
A gilded silver mirror flutters in XXX's hand as she sings, capturing fleeting images of lost souls and the vast expanse of twilight.

Verse 2:
Her melody continues, transforming the void into a tempest's heart. Towering waves crash around, but Jara, undeterred, summons a boat. As Czarna channels her sorcerous power, she beckons to the trapped souls, guiding them toward refuge.

Reaction:
The storm's fury is mirrored in the gilded surface, with XXX's reflection standing resilient amid the chaos.

Verse 3:
Sailing through the maelstrom, memories of sorrow and despair try to overwhelm them. Yet, with Jara's wisdom and Czarna’s spells, they turn despair into hope. The souls they've saved unite, singing a hauntingly beautiful chorus.

Reaction:
A gilded silver mirror pulses with a soft, ethereal light in XXX's grasp, resonating with the harmonious chorus of saved souls.

Verse 4:
As the storm subsides, dawn breaks. In its wake, a realm of peace and renewed hope emerges. Jara and Czarna, their combined strengths evident, have crafted a path through darkness, leaving a trail of reborn souls and memories.

Reaction:
The mirror in XXX's hand shines brilliantly, reflecting a world reborn, before gradually returning to its serene state.

thorny plinth
burnt scroll
#

@hoary summit hmm gilded silver mirror is not permanent ... please explain to tootal noob like me what do you mean. When it will be destroyed?

hoary summit
#

when you use it to teleport, there's a chance the chronomages will take it from you, the same thing happens with normal gold rings

burnt scroll
#

Sounds dramatic ...

thorny plinth
#

think of it more of a consumable than a permant item, it has a shelf life of use, so you can add the lore song to it but you might never want to use it again to teleport yourself.

burnt scroll
#

Hmm but i have only mirror and my newbie pack. Singing pack sounds not so good

vernal sun
#

Czarna I DMed you

thorny plinth
#

you can put it on anything really as sort of an RP prop, its a neat win. Another factor is I'm not sure how hard that item would be to have the lore song perm unlocked. Without that only a bard will ever get to see that song more or less, they can temp unlock it and allow you to use the recall function for up to 30 days but you'd have to have that refreshed.

burnt scroll
#

@thorny plinth and all many thx for all great info. Its clear to me now. I will make certificate with the usage of <player> and <item> so I can use certificate on something different then my mirror. I will also check if song will be perm for RECALL - i believe so... Also maybe oh maybe they will make my mirror permanent 🙂

dull veldt
#

You could potentially also buy a prop hand-held mirror and ask a merchant at Ebon Gate alter it to look similar or just like the one that Jara gave you then put the loresong on the prop one. That way you'd never lose the loresong mirror from accidentally using it to teleport too many times.

burnt scroll
#

@Shan I see. Nice idea! I will look how it will develop with GM. Maybe GSIV God will have some great power here :-). I am also thinking about possibility to loose that mirror because it is as it is .... Wonder what is a chance for that at each teleport.

limpid matrix
#

I did what Shan suggested for an item I wanted a loresong on that wouldn't take a loresong, due to script conflict. So now I have two identical herb satchels - one that's a plain container with the loresong and one that's my actual daily use herb bundler.

burnt scroll
#

Oh and I will go for 6 verses looks like it is possible...

dull veldt
#

For what it's worth, I've never heard of a service that turns consumable teleporting devices (like normal gold rings and that mirror) into permanent teleporting devices, so I would not count on that being an option.

burnt scroll
#

@Shan lets what GM will tell me. Maybe I will charm him 🙂

thorny plinth
#

You're in the middle of a pretty big festival too, shop around see what there is to buy. Maybe a ring or necklace anything really you could put a song on, something to do with your chars background, something you found thats a myster you've been trying to solve lots of options other than what you just currenty have right now.

burnt scroll
#

@thorny plinth Thank you for very good advice. I really need to shop. I am in game for very short time. Made last week lev6 with my sorceror and since then not even touched grinding heh. I really need to go shopping as you say. Only things i have is my backpack and tons and tons of stuff from EG fishing (heh after each fish i am kicked out from area thats really so funny).

fleet gazelle
#

between Silverwood Manor, the festival and players, I have no doubt that you will be flooded with options to help dress up and grow into your character very quickly! And unlocked the song so you can remember it at a moments notice is almost certainly an easy task for anything a lower level character would be carrying around. Getting a great crash course in a bunch of aspects of the game

empty ruin
#

has there been any winners yet who did not pick up their item within the 24 hrs?

steady mango
#

And do all those items go into a locker that goes to the highest bidder!?

void helm
#

I would have to pull logs as I've not been paying attention to it since it is doig its job.

thorny plinth
#

I havent seen a rack with something on it before a new raffle has pulled yet

burnt scroll
#

Newbie lev6 sorcerer here. I am just lost in EG shops. Can any good soul give me advice what to buy that will give me some real world benefit? In last few days I fished tons of stuff and even won one Trove so overall very happy with unique stuff. Thank you.

latent idol
#

EG is the least mechanical festival now, so in terms of mechanical benefits there's only a few items. People might be able to help you if you share your interests. Also I recommend you ask in the event channel https://discord.com/channels/226045346399256576/594009960166457344 as this is supposed to be for questions related more to the trove.

burnt scroll
#

Reality is I do not need anything special. I am quite happy at the moment. Jy do not like to miss something essential 🙂

vapid igloo
#

@burnt scroll I would say...absolutely at a minimum you should get 2 wand combiners. Put all your twisted wands into 1. Put all your bone wands into another. To get max 100 charges on both should cost you like...less than 500 Soul Shards.

I have a wand combiner for every wizard wand (so AS based) on my low level cleric and it has been FANTASTIC for supplementing mana to prolong hunts and let me finish bounties

old anvil
#

How did I not know these were a thing?

latent idol
#

up until last year they were wizard only and had a pretty low charge reservoir, so they were fairly impractical to use

solid hull
#

if only they worked with 1013 though.

I"m going to build the biggest mana battery the north has ever seen.

latent idol
#

still on my campaign to get a T3 that allows 420 and 325 made wands to combine

dark wing
burnt scroll
#

oh buyers choice .. amazing .. thank you

north sable
#

Woot got lucky and won he Custom spirit servant certificate

turbid pulsar
#

And by the way, nobody has put a recommendation in from that Wand shop!

slow oyster
#

on the parlor east trove the item up is "a tombstone grey announcement." does anybody know what delayed service this is?

fervent vault
#

i assumed death message

slow oyster
#

that was my thought too but I just want to make sure haha

north sable
#

anyone know what my custom spirit servant certificate is worth from the trove? Considering selling it but kind of clueless on this one.

nocturne grove
#

The bad news for you is that it's a far less known market than things like custom familiars or animal companion grooming, so no, it would be hard to give an estimate. They also don't have the level of utility and RP value that those two have.

The good news for you is that the reason it's a far less known market is because it's offered so much less often (in fact, I don't recall seeing custom spirit servants offered in all five years of Caligos EG, nor last year at Evermore), so maybe someone would be willing to offer a ton on rarity alone.

dull veldt
#

There was at least one (maybe three?) raffled off last year at EG. It's definitely nice to see the service return this year.

nocturne grove
dull veldt
#

It is a new service, to be sure!

upbeat ivy
#

No idea either but I'd be interested.

north sable
#

well if anyone is interested send me a private message and we can discuss. Thank you for the reply Leafiara.

solid hull
#

i have no idea for a fully custom but the one near unique (2 of each type) from rings of lumnis i remember seeing sell was like.... over 100m i think? (though to be fair, that's also effectively 3x or whatever a day 218 item as well)

edit: 130m in april of last year.

north sable
#

If you had to throw a number out since it does not have the 218 what would you think? I want to be fair to the private messages I have been receiving.

vital dock
#

The big question is if it comes with a permanent runestone. If you have to create the runestone it's not as valuable, IMO.

limpid matrix
#

It does come with a permanent runestone, yes

#

The 15/15/15, look, spell effects, and ambients are all customizable. It's an extremely cool service

dark wing
#

Get clarification on whether it's a fully custom one or just a base 15/15/15 one. The latter being the more common one they raffle off.

void helm
#

Its a fully custom one. Everything about it can be customized from lazy messaging, death announcement, look, etc.

void helm
#

Also, I know there was a lot of concern about there being too many trove tickets for various items.

#

However, looking at this the numbers really aren't overblown.

#

There were only 65 entries, for example, for the custom tea.

#

The property trove is seeing an average of 40 entries per pull.

#

The highest trove entry was for the werepuppy customization (242), followed by the tent (204), while the sonic items saw less than 30 entries.

steel flume
#

Thanks for sharing those numbers. That's cool insight.

dull veldt
#

Yes, thank you.

storm trail
#

Agreed - thanks for telling us! Is it a conscious decision (as opposed to a consequence of the trove mechanics) not to display that information while the trove drawings are active? For a raffle, you can look in to see how many tickets there are, but not so for the trove. Just curious 🙂

void helm
#

Yes.

#

But I don't remember why that decision was made.

vivid laurel
void helm
#

It was a long time ago.

thorny plinth
#

thats vastly less than most raffles at EGs pulled in

latent idol
#

probably - we don't want people to rush on the lower entry ones

void helm
#

I agree, it is vastly less than the average raffle at EG usually pulls in. Which is why I thought I'd mention it. There seemed to be a lot of anxiety about people entering a lot more since they could be offline but it seems to be unfounded.

latent idol
#

the price helps suppress I'm sure. entering every ~~raffle ~~trove on a bunch of alts will add up, fast

hoary summit
#

even if you entered everything, even the profession specific ones, you'd still only be looking at 10m per character

More expensive than the usual 5-50k silver raffles put everywhere for sure though

void helm
#

Now you are falling into the same conundrum of thought that we do. Not everyone has 10m to toss on a character for a chance to win a raffle.

steady mango
#

Yeah, hidden entries is good imo.

storm trail
void helm
#

Its hard to balance (and this isn't really a conversation for here but... ) the "silvers problem" for the "average" player. We set a value on things hoping it has enough value to be worth it for most people, without being prohibitive for others.

#

The seesaw is never balanced.

latent idol
#

This is certainly the least worst it's ever been

storm trail
#

Yeah. And I think the people for whom 10m is not a drop in the bucket can be choosy on which trove drawings they enter. I don't think that's unreasonable. It sort of comes with the territory when you offer stuff for silvers.

hoary summit
#

Personally I decided against dumping 50m on all my alts entering everything in hopes that karma would pay me out a win, I guess we'll see how that pans out lol

vernal sun
#

there's no guaranteeing that dumping 50m on all your alts will pay out a win, either.

idle flicker
#

This good to hear yeah very costly enter every trove. I’m just entering 1 ticket per trove if I win great if not that was just extra anyway. Still having a great time 🙂

hoary summit
vivid laurel
#

With the entry #s as low as they are, I can see why we have several folks who have won multiple times. If we were up at 240+ entries for every draw, that would be a bit sus.

hoary summit
#

I mean it's still kind of sus, but yeah. I don't trust any of these raffle/spinner/troves as far as RNG goes, I've had spinners just straight up ignore me, merchant spins the whole room to decide order, spinner doesn't select me. Not saying they're rigged or anything but I'm pretty sure there's some spaghetti in that code

dark wing
hoary summit
#

Yeah, I know the trove is a newer system so hopefully bug free, but who knows with the ancient raffle system & spinners

void helm
#

The randomization is calculated as total entries. We don't measure anything else. It is literally how many tokens, pick one in that range. You guys and your conspiracy theories...

tranquil meteor
#

I’ve heard about bugs in raffles in the past that actually did have a wi-flag effect for the first ten people entering the raffle. It was very similar in concept and had something to do with the first person(s) entering had better odds to win because they were counted as 0 and their unique ID

vivid laurel
#

The trove will provide a better randomization based on the fact that it doesn't care whether the winner is online or not. The raffle system has to account for the fact that the randomized winner might not be online. If they're not, secondary (and further) determinations of a winner that IS online may not be quite random.

rich coral
#

yep, the trove removes the need for any filtering out logic, it's probably just the equiv of =RAND()*(number of entries) to find out which token wins, rather than (find people that are online, then create a new table based on the people online, then random generated from said table) which is probably something like what happens for normal raffles

I suspect they are both random, but RNG will always RNG, you won't see what looks like full randomness until many many thousands of iterations

solid hull
#

if i don't win the RNG is busted. If someone else wins more than once in a 50 year period it's busted. Unless that person is me then it's fine it's a return to the mean.

gleaming hamlet
#

I know ppl are probably irrationally paranoid about raffles and GS odds in general but there have been some pretty hilarious instances of raffle/spinners going bonkers and you know what they say.... if you can see the very obvious ones then what about the ones you can't see.

steel flume
#

yeah, who knows how overly complex this stuff is. I wouldn't rule out bugs preventing certain positions in the list from ever showing up, but I'd be incredibly surprised if there was any RNG issues

#

I've seen spinners do weird things the first few years they came out and they sound a bit complicated to setup.. no clue about raffles or Troves.

hoary summit
fervent vault
#

I just blame my never winning raffles on God, cosmic forces and a curse put on my family by an old fisherman's wife.

fair creek
#

It doesn’t help that you are still holding a nativity baby Jesus hostage

dark wing
#

I blame all my lack of raffle winnings on Hoy, this is the way.

nocturne grove
#

Not gonna lie, seeing those numbers kinda makes me want to immediately buy more service passes because apparently the odds have never been better and it's not even close. 😮

Edit: This swing of EV also bumps custom leeches and sonic shields from "skip" to "enter" on my spreadsheet.

fossil raft
latent idol
#

wait that's supposed to give you bad luck?

steady mango
#

Whelp, glad I didn't want anything from the regular troves anyways!

gleaming hamlet
latent idol
#

Even the people who buy the stuff don't want it, they just need to keep up the illusion of a market

hollow steppe
#

I have set up several pseudo accounts for the sole purpose of buying and selling from myself! You figured it out!

nocturne grove
#

Dunno what world you guys are living in. 😛 I'd like the world where the custom illusion pin and tent went up for sale afterward so I could have a go at it, but it's not this one to my knowledge!

latent idol
#

Clearly, they don't want to lower the price on their wins by adding to the available items on the market

hollow steppe
#

I bound my pupper familiar. It's mine forever now!

slow oyster
#

just borrow against your current trove wins to finance your future trove wins, there's no way that could go wrong

fast beacon
#

Oh I certainly like to win a variety of things, but I'm also disinterested in gambling.

hollow steppe
#

I wish it could cross realms so I could make it bug people.

steady mango
vital dock
#

I'm using my trove win for sure

fervent vault
north sable
#

If I had won the puppy I would have loved and used it forever.

old anvil
steel flume
#

I don't use Lnet but just casually checking marketplace and the PC, it doesn't seem like anything from the Trove has been posted up yet. Maybe people are waiting or doing private transactions or JUMPING OUT FROM INVIS as soon as the item is picked up off the rack and offering to buy it, but I feel like people are entering for things they want. dracshrug

hollow steppe
lunar furnace
#

True enough. If I were to win something I bid on, it's mine, because I wanted it. Only time I enter things I don't want is if it is a gift.

nocturne grove
#

I don't enter unless I'd have a use for the prize.

Of course, this isn't to say there's no sum that would make me part with a win. Just because I'd like something more than I'd like 25m doesn't mean I'd like it more than I'd like 250m... 😄

hoary summit
#

Considering I've already bought two trove wins, I agree, no trove items are selling, everyone is just entering for stuff they want 😉

#

and historically most of the trove/EoR stuff pops up at the -end- of the event when people are sitting on wads of currency they didn't end up spending and are looking to get rid of

thorny plinth
#

Who cares what people do with there wins they paid cash to be allowed to enter them.

gleaming hamlet
north sable
bitter thunder
#

The dagger in the trove has what level of crit weighting? In player-speak?

void helm
#

Did you inspect it? That is going to be the best way to get the answer in player speak.

# 
It imparts a bonus of +23 more than usual.
It is a small item, under a pound.
It is estimated to be worth about 150,000 silvers.
It is somewhat weighted to inflict more critical wounds than a normal weapon of its type.
It is predominantly crafted of eahnor.
It is an involved project (259 difficulty) for an adventurer to modify.
The dagger is a dagger that requires skill in edged weapons to use effectively.

The script on this dagger is for zesty weapons and was originally released by Siolan during Ebon Gate 5105.  All alterations (longs and shows) are acceptable for this item within normal alteration guidelines.  It is currently Tier 3 of 3 possible tiers.  Current verbs are: FLIP, PINCH (at), PROD, PULL, PUSH, RUB, SCRATCH, TURN, TOUCH, and WAVE.```
steel flume
#

I believe earlier it was stated that it's +5 (50 services)

#

Was hoping it was going to be adjusted.. a ~500k silver really nice looking dagger next to Rusalkan and vethinye items still feels off.

trail nova
#

Is that difficulty right? Seems like there a steep penalty for the Siolan script, even though it's just fluff?

steel flume
#

it's still a script.. yeah.. One of the reasons why Siolan decreases the value of stuff. 500k is a rough guess. I think if it didn't have the alter it'd be pawnshop fodder

vernal sun
#

Siolan used to be the bees' knees. Now with all the uber combat scripts available, not so much.
That said, it's a raffle. If you don't want it, don't put in a token.

steel flume
# 
Show: Long and slender, the blade of the dagger is made of eahnor, its hue a shade darker than is typical of the crimson metal, and along the raised midline is an elegant fall of jade vine blossoms.  Inky enamel inlays each line of the etching and the stippled texturing, rendering each flower in exquisite detail.  At the base of the blade is an ovular guard with raised scalloped edges brushed with black enamel, and the hilt is hewn of solid ebony.  The pommel is a pristine ebon-clouded crimson phantom sapphire.  You also notice a small enchanter's glyph.
vernal sun
#

That hasn't come up yet in plat. I am totally putting in a token.

steel flume
#

Siolan is fun.. but it's also 250 for T2 unlock and 350 for T3 unlock OTS at EG

bitter thunder
#

Thanks everyone. I get confused between inspect, analyze, examine, recall, assess, look, read etc

#

That's a really pretty dagger but yeah not really consistent with typical trove. I'm pretty sure I already have a couple of siolans somewhere

steel flume
#

It's a nice looking dagger.. it's just weird to see both daggers be something not worth using as a main hunting weapon and if we ignored the alter, would be difficult to sell for 500k. The other items that were OTS have enhancives added. Feels like everything else is 20-400m in value. I dunno. We talked about this when the list was originally revealed. ofc, it also gives me flashbacks to when I sold my favorite alter back in the 90s to get enough money to buy something at an auction..and that item turned out to be an altered off the shelf scimitar. I'll leave it alone from here 🙂

slow oyster
#

thankfully nowadays we have all the information about the item clearly established before we decide whether to put in tokens

jagged pagoda
#

The item disparity was one thing when the distribution method was rng from digging and games.

Ill echo whats already been said that this is trove and you get what you see if you choose to enter.

I highly doubt no one will enter for this dagger. Every item will have someone enter.

whole shard
#

That is certainly true of any item in the game. I agree its no real harm if you can choose not to enter, but its likely not ideal to occupy trove spots with items that generate little interest. I am sure a smooth stone would get 100 plus entries, either from inattention or FOMO.

nocturne grove
#

Not everything needs to have mass appeal, but I'd actually go much further than that and argue that it was a worthwhile thing to put in as long as even one person really values it.

I'm very clearly not that person in the case of the Siolan daggers, but I'm also not that person in the case of the EZScripts, custom coffee, custom tea, or a litany of other things. They should be there for those who really want them, though!

steel flume
#

It's more that there's a limited amount of slots and it's full of high value items and rare services and then two nice looking daggers with low stats. I'm sure someone will like using the dagger for skinning or take it out of their locker once in awhile and admire it. It just feels off... Would have been nicer if it had more weighting, higher enchant, or enhancives, or anything. Like I said, Siolan is fun. but it's also an OTS item that costs 600 shards to fully unlock.

I guess a rough equivalent would be if that blood red hand in the Trove didn't have an enhancive on it. I'm sure people would wonder about that.

Anyways, I need to drop this. we need a new topic!

#

tonights item slot is an interesting set of clothes. Anyone know anything about those?

dull veldt
#

Yansio outfit set

vivid laurel
#

guystuff!

whole shard
#

If there was not an alternative way of getting something sure, but when its avaialble for general purchase there should be a standard beyond if "just one person wants it". Again, not a big deal, but feedback is the only way that GMs who largely ignore scarcity mechanics can make future decisions.

thorny plinth
steel flume
#

this the fabled guy stuff scripted clothing? I think I wasn't paying when Yansio stuff came out. is it normally difficult to get?

steel flume
thorny plinth
#

I bought a pass for other stuff, I said that looks neat, i'll toss 100k at that for funs.

fleet gazelle
#

it lets you customize your hand/finger/nail details too
saladfingers.jpeg

thorny plinth
#

But i assure you the 10 brawl ranks and 10 hp wasnt like a i must have this item deal for me even for my monk.

Yea they're really neat. I would have bought one other wise.

steel flume
#

yeah, can get that stuff altered. they are pretty cool.

#

I think it bothers me more because it's a combat item and it's low tier enough that it's not worth using as a weapon beyond skinning vs something non enhancives..Realizing that as I look at the Yansio stuff..which I did throw a token in for

limpid matrix
#

The Yansio script isn't hard to come by itself, but a fully altered (Elysani?) matching outfit is ChefsKiss

steel flume
#

Also kinda bothers me because all the other combat items are high end metals..but I probably shouldn't be looking at it as a combat item, but more of as an accessory.

uneven elk
#

Eahnor is prized by some

steel flume
#

yeah. the second one is razern.

uneven elk
#

glances at the razern accessorized items in his wardrobe yeah

limpid matrix
#

I have a whole collection of pretty daggers and exactly 0 ranks of OHE 😅

fleet gazelle
#

I'm going to win the custom coffee and the daggers and then theme the custom coffee around the daggers and then make the coffe and stir it with the daggers

uneven elk
vernal sun
#

I have a fantail dagger collection in Prime.

uneven elk
#

Inner Vaalorian: Dagger collection? That's cute. Know what I collect? Trebuchets.

limpid matrix
#

You can't fit a trebuchet in the bodice of a gown

steel flume
# 
a tri-colored vethinye chakram center-wrapped in silver rawhide (T5 - Chakram)
a pair of lacquered marlin spike naita'ro (Erithi Hairsticks - Sai and Katar - 5x)
a tentacle-wreathed rusalkoren pavis wrought into a kraken (5x shield, +10 Cman Bonus, +10 Shield Use Bonus) (This was later corrected. it's actually 7x)
an ebony-hilted dark eahnor dagger (5 pts Crit Weighting, T3 Siolan Dagger)
a flame-bladed razern dagger with a cerulean opal arcrose pommel (2 pts Crit weightin, T3 Siolan Dagger)
``` Think those are all the combat items
fleet gazelle
vernal sun
#

I keep seeing trebuchet and going "TREE BUCKET!"

steel flume
#

gotta keep the ammunition somewhere too..

fleet gazelle
#

oh nooooo would that make it an over the shoulder boulder thrower ?!
I'll see myself off to bed now

uneven elk
steel flume
#

I think they fit well as raffle items.. just not Trove next to Rusalkan and vethinye... but it looks like we need tree bucket gown themed trebuchets for raffle items next week!

uneven elk
#

"Why is it so huge?"
"Because uh Queen Rhosyn is larger than life. It's symbolic or something. Anyway don't look inside it"

steel flume
#

Now I'm thinking next year they should have a 'tree bucket' contest.. see who can hurl themselves the furthest in a trebuchet

uneven elk
#

OSA's release really threw a wrench in my mental picture of Elanthia's technology. I'm no longer sure how widely used trebuchets even are, with CANNONS in the picture

steel flume
#

True. Next step, hand cannons. Well, we have those junk cannons!

nocturne grove
#

I mean, we already have hand pylons...

slow oyster
#

I mean we have laser guns

steel flume
#

And back on the trove a bit. It’d be cool to get themed clothing sets. Ranger, rogue, wizard, etc. i think they did that at one of the auctions awhile back? Or custom certificates. “You give us X input and you get a set of clothes that can fit it. No back and forth!” I do tend to find it’s harder to put a set together in alter sessions the way an experienced GM could.

#

Elemental bows are really just weirdly shaped blaster rifles.

uneven elk
#

I honestly had never seen pylons so much as mentioned outside of KST until Perigourd unloaded one on Thaiagol--which was hilarious

nocturne grove
#

This is how I know you haven't read the Duskruin Buyer's Choice guides, where they get mentioned almost every time. 😂

uneven elk
#

I'm talking about in the course of RP.

nocturne grove
#

Ahh. Yeah, it's unclear exactly how common pylons are (either the full-sized ones or the hand ones) in the world at large outside the vicinity of the Locksmehr River.

tranquil meteor
#

Rule of thumb… GS tech is generally 1300’s or earlier

slow oyster
#

presumably the laser guns are operating on archimedean principles

plucky goblet
#

🙂

#

And Yansio hasn't been offered in a couple of years, particularly not fully unlocked.

vernal sun
#

hasn't been offered since Caligos!

plucky goblet
#

Yep, and unlocks were fairly limited at the time.

#

Just thought it'd be nice to throw the dudes something because we always get neglected for all the gowns.

limpid matrix
analog orbit
plucky goblet
#

There is no Yansio hat!

plucky goblet
#

We're a team. A group. A group of the two of us.

dawn quiver
#

That said - has anyone actually seen Casil and Elysani in the same room? 🤔

fleet gazelle
#

omg the names are even anagrams of each other!

vivid laurel
#

tries to figure out where the C goes and fails...

fleet gazelle
#

probably why I got 0 points at cryptic cyphers

plucky goblet
#

The C is invisible in Elysani

steady mango
#

I mean if you subtract the n from the E you get c

twin summit
#

I'm having an identity crisis now. I thought I was Casil, but if Casil is Elysani then who am I?

steady mango
#

Good at misdirection?

plucky marlin
#

I am very confused.

twin summit
#

#game-chatter message

plucky marlin
#

Well, I guess that makes sense.

twin summit
#

imitate speech Casil ]discord :suspicious I am not Elysani

Gnomish superpowers engage

analog orbit
#

Hello! Is there any way to trade in last years pumpkin-etched tokens for ones for this year? The drawers spit them back at me with a "This doesn't work this year" message. 🙂

vernal sun
#

Trove tokens aren't valid after the event of issue.

jagged pagoda
#

You might see if they can be traded for shards at the gjeng-whatever but that's about it

analog orbit
hollow steppe
#

I had a bag of like 30 or so i had to toss!

vernal sun
#

I had to toss over 50 I forgot I had until like, 2 days after the event closed.

nocturne grove
# 
You note the following details about a pale ivory rib cage pin:

It is a holy item.
It is a small item, under a pound.
It is estimated to be worth about 50,000 silvers.
It is predominantly crafted of organic material.

This rib cage pin is designed to hold a special kind of gem.  It can be altered, but should remain something intended for holding a gem.  The show description also will include the status of the rib cage pin's bezel setting.  Sing to it for details.```
This appears to be a *chrism holder*, not a chrismarium like it says in the prize list... I'm guessing it's a major chrism holder, then? (Can self-apply chrisms while dead.)
tranquil meteor
#

Any chance the custom familiar comes with sk 920?

hollow steppe
#

Bold ask. I like it

tranquil meteor
#

Hey they’ve done it before, can’t hurt to ask.

void helm
#

It does not.

tranquil meteor
#

it should be noted that when retrieving an item from trove.... get <item> FROM RACK is important

steady mango
#

How long did you struggle with that? 😂

tranquil meteor
#

Too long… more than I care to admit

zinc thunder
#

Apologies if this was answered…. But Is there a time limitation on redeeming a token or cert from the trove?

steady mango
#

24 hours, when next item draws, one on the rack is gone.

vernal sun
#

redeeming, not picking up

steady mango
#

Yeah I can't read. Delayed I believe we were asked to redeem within 2 weeks.

plucky goblet
#

Redeeming delayed certificates/tokens from the Trove should be done by October 31st. After it's redeemed, anything that requires QC will need to be submitted by November 15th.

plucky goblet
plucky goblet
#

Also, for a note for the nail press/polish holder Trove going out tonight -- the nail press will auto-unlock as planned features are added to the nail press in the future.

zinc thunder
trail nova
void helm
#

There's a chance you haven't yet because we've been slammed for the paste two weeks with merchant work

#

You should start seeing things from people soon.

trail nova
#

I understand. Just making sure I hadn't already missed something. I'll keep looking out.

spiral dune
#

Hey all, if you won Trove for a PP-Workshop, I volunteered today to handle those. There are 3 winners in Prime so far and 1 in Plat, and I've emailed all of you. Please check your spam if you don't see something from me! At least one person didn't supply an email so I had to use play.net.

#

Also...I think things go much smoother if you provide a direct email when you redeem because play.net so often winds up in spam. Just a thought! (I'm sure it's come up...I haven't reallly been following this thread)

north sable
#

How many more trove drawings will there be?

#

Every day until the 31st?

spiral dune
#

looks like 10/27 maybe? From one of the pins: The trove pulls at approximately 9 PM EDT every 24 hours for the next 24 days. (posted on 10/3)

nocturne grove
#

20 total pulls in the (non-property) Trove remain. (Which also means everything remaining is either on the shelf or on the tray right now!)

So, yes, last draw is on the 27th. 😄

north sable
#

Ok got it. Thank you both for the info

humble steppe
#

A Trove suggestion: If we are just going to let people sell all of the Trove win certificates, I would suggest that we either: 1) remove the private property restrictions from participation in the private property trove, or 2) add profession restrictions to the certificates (ie custom familiar) that are only applicable to certain professions. I don’t see why people should be able to sell the private property certs for mucho silvers but I didn’t have a chance to win it and sell it just because I don’t have a property.

OR, just attune all of the service certificates so that only people who actually want them can enter

steel flume
#

I would love to see things attuned.

fervent vault
#

I wanted to hold off on my full trove feedback until after the event wraps, but I'll just say asking players to pay cash for the right to enter raffles, then present players with a 400k-500k daily raffle expense for trove, which is not including the regular raffles, many of which were 50-100k each....I'm not sure why I was paying cash for the right to have the chance to bankrupt myself. I realize I don't have to enter raffles, but part of the value of the service pass was raffle access and I feel like I was asked to double dip both in my bank account and my ig wealth to take full use of my pass. I had to stop entering raffles this EG because I literally can no longer afford it

fast beacon
#

For property trove: I'd be interested in exploring attunement and also setting a cap on the number of times a service pass can enter+win.

#

WRT affordability: it becomes more affordable if you only enter the ones you want, and I would actually encourage everyone to only enter raffles you have a personal use for. I know that runs counter and contrary to how some folks approach raffles, but it is a guaranteed way to limit your risk and exposure.

fervent vault
#

I truly only entered ones I wanted. But if there were, for example, 3 custom swears offered in 3 different raffles, thats 300k. Rather than 100k for one of 3 slots in a single raffle

fast beacon
#

Ah, ok, fair point, I wasn't thinking of it quite that way. I do wonder if there could be a better approach to handling duplicate items.

bitter thunder
#

As someone who doesn't play very often, and plays a class that doesn't have a service, the cost of trove entries just for things I want has been awful

vital dock
#

I think the property trove should stay limited to only those with a private property. But I also support profession certificates going to only that profession.

Thandiwe said it was too late to change it this year, but maybe next year.

#

If would be nice if releases weren't so stingy. 1 prize when 400 people enter is not enough.

How about the number of prizes awarded is equal to 10% of the entries?

Especially for these once a year raffles, where people are paying a simucoin entry, plus a lot of silvers (for some). The more people that walk away happy, the more likely they are to buy in again the following year, and not complain.

fair creek
#

I would personally like to see the return of 1 major win per service pass. This would help towards people only entering raffles for things they would really like to win

steel flume
#

I can appreciate that the trove was/is a great silver drain though. But I'm totally down with 1 major win except then I can see people would complain that "coffee/tea" isn't a major win versus like starsong weapons etc.

nocturne grove
#

Oh, cool, I see I’ve woken up to a “Leafi disagrees with everybody” kind of day. 🤣

Just… give me a few minutes. These are really nuanced situations.

hollow steppe
#

Property trove wins are still going to property owners. I see no reason why it should be made available to those without properties. You just hedge it to more of a guarantee that someone will sell it

gleaming hamlet
#

I just love how I said before the trove started that no one cared and was just gambling for items to sell and some people were "oh, I am going use my win"..... seems like half of the trove items are going on sale the same hour they are won.... I do think instant attunement would be the better option at this point. (Or atleast attunement within 10 minutes of a character under your control)

fair creek
limpid matrix
#

I hate that I see the logic in "we can enter everything else to flip why can't we also take advantage of property owners too"

steel flume
gleaming hamlet
#

(Just want to highlight there is nothing inherently wrong with all these people selling trove wins as that has been the GS way forever....)

thorny plinth
#

+1 to making prof stuff gated to the prof. outside that really liked the trove for this stuff I am fine for the cost of the trove because it gives some added QOL stuff over raffles that I value.

hollow steppe
#

Trove was great this run. Really enjoyed it. It’s the only reason I bought a services pass(es). Drained a bunch of silver. A great spread of prizes.

void helm
#

Just to dispel some misunderstanding/communications/ideas, and not really to comment on anything else. I do have some metrics that may interest people.

These calculations are as of Sunday Night.
Only 85% of all pass holders took part in the Trove.
Of those, 25% took part in 10 or less Trove raffles.
Of those, 18% took part in 10 - 19 of Trove raffles.
Of those, 13% took part in 20 - 29 of Trove raffles.
Of those, 12% took part in 30 - 39 of Trove raffles.
And only 1 person took part in all, with the next being someone that took part in about 90.

Only 1 person won 3 raffles, 1 person won 4 raffles, 11 people won 2, and the rest were unique pass holders.

The highest entered raffle was Custom Fatal Afflares. 78% of the people Participating Trove entered.
One item had zero entries. That was for the custom sanctuary.
45% of all troves had between between 100 and 194 entries.
7% of all troves had 90-99 entries
7% of all troves had 80-87 entries
.9% of all troves had 70-78 entries
8% of all troves had 35-67 entries
2% of all troves had 200 or more entries

35 was the lowest entry and it was for a mailbox Trinket, which 36 being the next and it was for property food.

hollow steppe
#

It had zero entries? How did I miss that. I am fairly certain I have entered every single trove. 🙂 Strike that. I think I missed one entry for some sonic gear. But other than that!

void helm
#

The highest entries were as follows: 204 - a folded orange canvas tent 204 - an ovoid white opal arcrose vial clutched by an obsidian spider 205 - a silver-strung blown glass bauble 212 - a tone-on-tone graphite satin gown with green amber teardrop accents 214 - a spectral dark silver soulstone vial nestled in a chain-strung coffin 239 - a twisted double-helix rusalkoren staff sporting mist-like azure striations 242 - a custom werepuppy certificate 249 - a midnight black teabowl 276 - a custom Fatal Afflares certificate

#

Maybe its up now? Not sure.

limpid matrix
#

Thank you for the data, Thandiwe. I really do love seeing player patterns.

That such a smaller proportion of players took part in every Trove kind of proves the "rich getting richer" idea though. I'd have entered a lot more than I did if 100k was a negligible amount of silver for me.

zinc thunder
#

I'm curious if that zero trove entry one was one of the first that ran... i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of folks forgot to enter things teh first couple of days (my being one of them). I would've entered every raffle, every day, had I remembered. With the only exception maybe being the sonic items.

I'm a big fan of - people can win more than once (i won zero, if anyone cares) - but that they should cost more to enter, and really make people think a little bit more about which ones they WANT to enter into. Or maybe just allow 1 entry per day.... force folks to choose between what's available.

Just me 2 cents! 🙂

void helm
#

For what it is worth, the sonic gear had some of the lowest entries. They were all in the 40-60 entries range.

fast beacon
#

That doesn't surprise me, not many bards find value in Sonic gear

void helm
#

Companion grooming had 78, 94, and 98 for entries.

hollow steppe
#

It could have been one of the first trove items that ended up getting reset. I didn’t enter anything until after the reset.

void helm
#

The property troves averaged around 40 entries per raffle.

#

Surprisingly, the nail crate took 188.

steel flume
#

Those designs are Fire

void helm
#

The reason that I point these things out is because things like the Sonic, Grooming, etc, going into raffles that a profession-based only aren't really needed when you are looking at the numbers I mentioned. Less than 1/2 entered for some with less than 1/4 entering for others.

#

Obviously, rough approximates.

#

It isn't over yet so .. you know

dark wing
zinc thunder
#

i'm shocked fatal afflares had more entries than a werepuppy, teabowl, or rusalkoren runestaff.... really makes you wonder if the day some of the offerings were put up impacts it

fervent vault
latent idol
#

THAT many people entered custom fatal afflares? at duskruin, the spin was for I think 5 slots and there were... 8 people? maybe 10

void helm
#

Well, Ptolemy, here's the thing....

#

Raffles have always been tied to a service pass.

#

Before EG went to pass based for services, you had to pay to get on the grounds.

#

And you paid more than a services pass to do it.

thorny plinth
#

we've always paid for passes then paid in silvers for raffles or mini games or buying items OTS, the cost just jumped a bit this year do to no 4 winners for this one thing.

void helm
#

no 4 winners?

fervent vault
#

Yup. I remember the older model. I'm just not a huge fan of paying what amounts to several months worth of hunting gains in silver for a majority of the population in order to have extremely outside chances to win a raffle. The general trend of raffle costs has been more and more players asking that they be reduced, not increased. We were going in that direction and at least when you lost, it was 3x-4x less than what it costs now.

Even non-trove raffles were very, very expensive

steady mango
#

Those numbers definitely make me feel much worse.

latent idol
#

historic raffles would draw for X winners, so like 5 winners drawn for 1 entry fee. it's a silvers only increase in fee, and a small chance change as now somebody could win twice

dark wing
# void helm no 4 winners?

Meaning raffles are now for a single winner instead of one raffle for four winners. Making your silver stretch further if they were all one raffle

fast beacon
#

I too was not very stoked about spending a few million silvers for the chance to win something, probably because I won nothing at all

fervent vault
#

Also, we know that not all of thoese 'unique pass holder' wins are actually unique pass holders. Several folks won raffles among their various alts. Its not something that can really be controlled for, but its not like those are all unique players winning

zinc thunder
void helm
#

Oh, you mean, each raffle was for 1 winner vices 1 raffle entry for 4 of the same thing. Got it.

thorny plinth
# void helm no 4 winners?

I mean like offering sonic armor 4 times in the trove vs one raffle with 4 winners. sorry if that was unclear.

void helm
#

They are unique accounts.

fast beacon
latent idol
#

ultimately, the question is, are you more upset about not winning raffles than you ~~are ~~ would be about not having raffles, as that's kinda the only way for people to not be upset at all at losing raffles

void helm
#

I can't even track this at all reasonably in Platinum because reach pass can have up to 5 users there, and then the numbers are all over the places because its by character and not account.

fervent vault
#

I'm sure they are unique accounts. I don't doubt that. But there are more than a few with the same player behind it. Again, its not something new. That's just reality. But it hurts to pay the 100k fee raffle after raffle and realize you are down several million and you paid cash to have the option. If it the cost was something like 25k per, I would feel much less salty about it

steel flume
#

yeah the plat situation is really disappointing

slow oyster
#

Wait I thought I entered that custom sanctuary trove haha

void helm
#

there were a few

nocturne grove
#

I typed up a huge thing that I'll come back to, but I definitely entered every custom sanctuary Trove. It sounds like a bug?

Edit: unless you mean a custom shrine or something else related to properties?

latent idol
#

I thought I saw somebody selling the win yeah

void helm
#

There was more than one.

hollow steppe
#

How many people entered the puppet familiar trove?

void helm
#

One had 155 entries. The original fo pass was resolved and nothing was cast out. It could also be that when I was doing text-to-column I accidentally overwrote something

latent idol
#

also, whoever won the 4, that's pretty devil's luck

nocturne grove
#

There were Major Sanctuaries on the 9th and 10th days. I'm certain I entered the 9th day one because I won a different pull that day, and I can't imagine that I didn't enter the 10th day since I would have been there to pick up my win from the 9th.

void helm
#

the puppet had 172 entries

hollow steppe
#

Man I got lucky with that one.

latent idol
#

It feels like, even accounting for the loss of multi-winner raffles, that more items overall went out from this than previous events. Is that because they were no longer diluted into the digging prize pool etc?

void helm
#

Probably. I mean, it was kind of nice to get out 100 items, 75 that were custom services, that we didn't have to track down 100 owners. It all fed to DELAYED for us and the physical items were in the owners hands within hours.

#

No one forfeited.

#

Incidentally, Tysgon, there are approximately 100 properties out there. I'm not sure where your 57 comes from.

latent idol
#

I also want to focus on the fact that requests to adjust price are pretty universal, but nobody is in here saying the trove itself was an utter failure, unlike... previous.... iterations.

void helm
#

Oh, I completely understand that.

fervent vault
#

Oh, yeah. I don't want to imply the trove failed or something. It was just boggling expensive on the silver side for what we are told are the average wealth level of the majority of players

void helm
#

I'm just sharing facts of the trove and not really trying to debate anything.

upbeat ivy
#

Are the trove entries restricted to one per account? I don't think they are, but asking to make sure

dark wing
void helm
#

One per pass.

#

Oh, I see where you got your number now, Tysong. Thank you.

dark wing
#

I can send you the list of their names if you'd like 😁 Decided to not post that but instead the full count.

void helm
#

No, no, not necessary, but thank you.

latent idol
dark wing
void helm
#

I'm not really a fan of players tracking other players movements and stuff. It kind of creeps me out. No offense.

upbeat ivy
#

I really like the trove, but I would like to see profession restricted ones as has already been suggested. It also feels like an uphill battle to win if it's one per pass rather than one per account.

latent idol
#

remote trove entry and retrieval when?

gleaming hamlet
#

I mean its easy to tell who won multiple raffles based on all the sales posts. Luckers.

dark wing
#

Only did it since there's no way to track how many entries are actually been used to know full odds since they don't operate like normal raffles where you can see your odds.

fervent vault
#

Yeah, i would personally like to be able to see number of entries. Putting my token in with 250 others vs 50 others is a sizeable odds difference

dark wing
#

Really wish there was a way to see total entries submitted.

upbeat ivy
#

+1 to see total entries much like looking in raffle barrels

void helm
#

Here's the thing though, you say that now, but when everyone sees there's only 50 entries then they are going to enter, and then everyone else is going to enter that would have anyway.

#

I don't know that 50 in the barrel at the onset makes sense.

limpid matrix
# fervent vault Oh, yeah. I don't want to imply the trove failed or something. It was just boggl...

I (was...) comfortably above the average going into EG and it still drained me. If I were running at the amount of silvers I did for most of my GS career, I'd be leaving EG with half as many Trove's entered and practically every silver spent. With how many Troves were running, for as long as they have been, the aggregate at 100k per entry is ouch.

Edit: I know the argument is 'only enter what you actually want' and boy I wish I lived in an Elanthia where that was a thing, instead of counting on wins to improve your spending ower so you can win more so you can improve your spending power so you ... etc etc

latent idol
#

that's true, but unless you do something to bust watching entrants, you're just encouraging the creepers

fast beacon
#

If trove happens again next year and we are still allowed to win multiple times, I probably will just forgo participating at all as it was a crusty experience for me. I'm sure that others found the experience to be great, but that wasn't mine.

fervent vault
mild coyote
#

I appreciated the convenience of it

gleaming hamlet
#

What I would love to see is general estimate of what your % chance to win was if you had entered every trove raffle (4 prime ones), I assume it would still be under 1% to win something unless I suck at math....

dark wing
#

I enjoy the trove system and do like its mechanics. A few suggestions, allow multiple prizes won per trove raffle to mimic old style raffles having multiple winners, allow for guidebook to show info about existing troves, ability to see how many entries currently submitted per trove.

fair creek
#

The trove concept in general is fantastic and we have seen some great improvements since its inception. I think we’re nearly there!

fervent vault
#

And I'm always a fan of transparency. The truth is, some people have the time and convenience and scripting power to stick hiding/invisible characters around every raffle table, or outside of Herb Hunt exit tracking global cooldowns on mandrake drops.. Some players are going to have this information, so I'd rather the game just provide it to us all

latent idol
#

odds of winning once entering all of them (assuming 80 raffles) at 1:200 odds are... 6.6%?

nocturne grove
gleaming hamlet
#

To win just once out of the whole event while entering every raffle.

steel flume
#

I love trove, I think it's great, nothing about it bothered me. I do think there's an opportunity for running attuned troves next year.

nocturne grove
# gleaming hamlet To win just once out of the whole event while entering every raffle.

Then that's even easier, considering some of the individual raffles themselves already had far higher than a 1% chance of winning due to low entries.

Edit: to be precise...
8% of all troves had 35-67 entries
...on this point alone, you'd have a ~1.4925% chance if you had entered even one of these and it was a 67 entry one, never mind that there were/will be eight of them and some had fewer entries.

steady mango
#

Keep the entire hidden. Don’t need resellers entering raffles they wouldn’t have otherwise because the odds are better.

latent idol
#

hide everything. you don't even know what you're bidding on

fervent vault
#

The resellers are still entering. 100k lost isn't stopping them

limpid matrix
#

Yeah they don't care, cram the tokens in

storm trail
#

For context, I won zero raffles, and I don't really mind! I loved the fact that the trove was for silvers. I like that the silvers I have in game can go toward the chance of having an exciting thing. I agree with the other people who say that it would've been better to have, for example, one drawing for 4 winners for animal companion grooming instead of 4 drawings for 1 winner. It wouldn't drain as many silvers, but I think that's fine.

I also think it would be great to limit wins to one per service pass. The "one win per account" rule at the first auction earlier this year worked out pretty well, and I think it'd work here too.

slow oyster
#

I won zero raffles and I did mind, my feedback for next year is I should win more raffles

#

But seriously I thought the trove went well and really smoothly, the silver cost did seem maybe a bit higher than last year

gleaming hamlet
#

I think this is new having so many custom certs and the future really depends on how much QC could handle during this event. So maybe in the future more is offered unless it was too many GM manual hours for the custom certs

dark wing
#

Another thought/idea, perhaps a consolation prize if the service pass owner didn't win a trove win? Something that could be automated of course, something akin to a lower tier GHOUL prize or similar?

fervent vault
#

Even beyond the trove, just regular raffles on the ground regularly hit 100k. I have no idea where that spike in costs came from

slow oyster
#

There were a bunch of 100k raffles last year too, I think the change is more that there used to also be a bunch of 10k raffles that ended up in the trove

gleaming hamlet
latent idol
#

the orb from the pass is still ostensibly the consolation for failing to get anything from the pass, granted winners get it too

dark wing
#

Like I missed having the raffles that were like, win a premade signature verb, 10 winners selected sort of raffles.

vivid laurel
#

Only 1 person won 3 raffles, 1 person won 4 raffles, 11 people won 2, and the rest were unique pass holders. Thandiwe are you looking across troves here? I mean, are you saying only 1 person won four trove raffles across ALL 5 of them, or just in one trove instance?

gleaming hamlet
#

I assume 4 raffles overall but the other question would be is that literally 1 account or 1 MA person.... if it is just 1 account then that person could have 7+ at this point

fervent vault
#

she said that is individual account wins

nocturne grove
#

Her wording was very clear that's per account (due to the "unique pass holders" at the end).

void helm
#

As of Sunday night, per pass, there was only 1 pass holder that won 4 raffles, 1 that won 3, and 11 that won 2, with the rest being unique pass holders.

vivid laurel
#

Yeah I actually mean to use the word "Character" up there, not "person" because a single person could have multiple charcters

void helm
#

That's why I said pass holder.

#

Who they pass it to, where it goes, and what they do with it after they claim it is out of my control.

sour fox
#

One win/passholder would be a nice change

fervent vault
#

The Major Win system had flaws, but it also had virtues

gleaming hamlet
#

So if 1 win rule was in place 17 more "accounts" would have prizes at this point. how many raffles run at this point? 17 out of?

wanton quartz
#

If only one pass holder won 4 and one pass holder won 3, then it has to be the same pass holder

gleaming hamlet
#

Tricky! tricky.... i like it. Sounds like a teacher question on a test haha

slow oyster
#

I would also have liked it if the trove wins were account attuned personally but I understand that there would be complaints about that also

void helm
#

No, I didn't mean it that way, Ragz.

fervent vault
void helm
#

Its not cumulative.

#

I parsed it out.

vivid laurel
#

I guess I am trying to determine if that's "in a single trove" i.e. did a single pass holder win 4 trove wins on the same character in the same trove (property trove for example)

void helm
#

Its all troves.

fervent vault
#

I don't want to ponder the % odds of one pass holder winning 4 seperate raffles

void helm
#

So as of Sunday night, that would be out of 100 pulls

latent idol
#

yeah, the troves seem completely unrelated (statistically) so it's fine to treat them all as unique raffles

nocturne grove
#

I mean, you could pretty much derive the odds from Thandiwe's earlier post.

gleaming hamlet
#

in GS ~~you ~~whale have a greater chance to win 4 raffles than you have to win 1! 🧌 (I FIXED IT)

fervent vault
thorny plinth
#

Anyone can go on the town crier and look at years past of winners, having one person win 4 things in an EG isnt unheard of and its not a trove problem really.

vivid laurel
slow oyster
#

It’s a birthday problem actually so the odds are much higher than the simple estimation would suggest

latent idol
#

it's super low, but at the same time you are basically making a birthday problem situation (sheesh tikba, beat me to it!)

nocturne grove
#

I get that we have this argument every year, but, I mean... we have it every year for a reason. With or without the Trove, Ebon Gate involves a lot of luck. Sometimes you win nothing and sometimes you have a hot year.

thorny plinth
#

I'm also forever amused at the "We need silver drains!" "No not like this" nature of things.

limpid matrix
#

Still waiting on that hot year, personally ...

steel flume
#

Ur hot every year fan

fervent vault
#

I'm not someone who has asked for silver drains. But thats another topic. I'm definitely not a fan of paying cash for the privilege of having my silver drained.

limpid matrix
#

Draining silvers with something that's suppose to be an equalizer (raffles) is kind of missing the point of silver drains. The silver poor don't need any more drains

gleaming hamlet
#

Hey, I gladly pay $150 to have the privilege of paying $15 for a ballpark hotdog!

thorny plinth
#

You pay a sub fee thus all your silver spending is tied to paying cash, thus ends the pedantic portion of my day.

nocturne grove
#

I had hot years this year and 2021 and terrible years in 2018, 2019, 2020, and 2022, personally.

At least, if we were judging only on raffles... which I don't. Predicate your value on either "over time" or on things that aren't raffles and it's easier for a service pass to be worth it through the down times of the RNG!

vivid laurel
#

It's all relative anyway. If you win the "omg I want this one thing!" er.. thing, and nothing else. That's a hot year for you.

limpid matrix
#

I won my very first trove ever this year, and it was apparently the one with the best odds so that sums my luck up 😅

fervent vault
#

Id be amused at a command that tells us our raffle wins over the years. I mean i can just type 0 and hit enter, but id like to see the total entries

gleaming hamlet
nocturne grove
thorny plinth
vivid laurel
#

And I really only asked about the #s as a fun data science exercise. Property trove is easier to calculate based on a "40 entrant average". So if it was 40 people for 21 trove pulls, the propability per each is 0.025 (1 in 40), but the binomial probability of winning 4 troves in that one instance is 0.001520 (just over 1.5 in 1,000) which is actually not as improbable as some might think.

fervent vault
void helm
#

For what it is worth, I did notice that 3 people created characters for certain raffles and then deleted them when the raffle was over. So my affirmation that not showing the winner is good kind of has proof.

gleaming hamlet
#

Like if every spin/raffle for an item was 1 in 200 average, and you played GS for 5 years and there was 250 raffles a year, what are your odds if you attended every one (mathing in progress)

slow oyster
#

Like they made a character bought them a pass and then deleted the character? That’s wild

fervent vault
solid hull
nocturne grove
#

...you guys do know what the birthday problem Tikba and Archsenex referenced is, right?

steel flume
#

It's not really a problem cuz people are more likely to get down during certain events/holidays/seasons.

solid hull
#

that you only need like 20 people for it to be more likely than not that 2 of them share the same birthday?

slow oyster
#

Amusingly birthdays being unevenly distributed due to real life holidays just makes it MORE likely that people share birthdays

#

Probably not an important factor for the trove though

nocturne grove
#

Right... despite it seeming initially very improbable on the face of 1/365 * 1/365, it stacks up quickly as the numerator grows.

solid hull
void helm
#

Every job I've had, there's been 4-5 of us all having birthdays within days of one another and the teams I work with are range between 8 and 50. So kind of strange.

#

But I just attribute it to Pisces liking to school.

slow oyster
#

Wait so you’re saying when you worked on a team of eight people half your team had birthdays the same week

#

That must have been an annoying cake to organize

void helm
#

Yea

steel flume
void helm
#

Yes.

zinc thunder
slow oyster
#

The application here is that the question is not “what are the odds that X person won four troves” it’s “what are the odds that any four trove picks shared the same winner” and so the odds grow with the factorial of the number of trove picks

fervent vault
steel flume
#

It's annoying that people can win so much and that .. 16 items went to someone that won something else.. but eh, that's how it works. It's why I'm glad there's cool items OTS, even if they get expensive. The 100k price did stop me from entering raffles to flip the item.

gleaming hamlet
#

Still trying to figure out my odds of 1/200 for 1250 raffles (over five years), how do I find the cumulative % chance to win?

void helm
#

16 items went to what?

steel flume
gleaming hamlet
#

Saying the avg. is 1 in 200 for each raffle. (Can we get a GS advanced math channel??)

zinc thunder
#

I think that’s the summation of the “multiple winners from the same person” you mentioned before.

slow oyster
#

Your chance to win is 1 - 199/200 ^ 1250

steel flume
# void helm 16 items went to what?

If 11 people won two, 1 person won 3, and one person won 4. then 11+2+3 = 16, the number of items that went out to someone who won more than one. ofc, I don't know if that's really a bad thing or not.

zinc thunder
#

The only reason I’m not a fan of only one winner per person, even though i didn’t win anything…. Is that I’d hate to be excluded from 2 Starsong daggers because i won a custom tea certificate.

Maybe that concept would limit who enters what.
But that would also reduce the overall silver drain

gleaming hamlet
slow oyster
#

With the specific numbers you gave yes your odds of hitting at least once would be quite high

nocturne grove
steel flume
thorny plinth
steel flume
hollow steppe
#

Keep it free for all! Open 20 accounts! Buy 20 passes! Spend 200m silver! Still lose the trove! Or maybe win it all!

void helm
thorny plinth
void helm
#

11 people won 2 = 22, 1 person won 3 = 25, 1 person won 4 = 29. The people in the 3 and 4 win are not counted in the 2 wins.

gleaming hamlet
#

I wonder how much ppl's decision making would change if they had perfect statistical and probability awareness...

steel flume
void helm
#

Ah.

#

That makes more sense, thank you.

fervent vault
gleaming hamlet
#

Although I do like..... "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" and "99% of gamblers quit right before they were going to hit it big"

void helm
#

So 13% (approx.) didn't go to unique individuals.

fervent vault
#

Well. Unique pass holders. Alts accounts are some unknown %.

slow oyster
void helm
#

Please accept this without any kind of malice. Unique pass holders is the best way to look at it. I can't police people, you can't police people, and being tied in knots about it can become unhealthy.

#

87% of all wins went to unique pass holders.

nocturne grove
#

Thoughts on some topics. I don't actually have conclusions in most/all cases; just musing aloud.

📎 message.txt
steel flume
#

dealing with alt accounts is..messy.. Having won 0 of them and then seeing one person win 4 does bother me. but does that ultimately matter? I don't think the trove is designed to make me happy

fervent vault
#

Yup. For sure. Its just the lay of the land

void helm
#

So the profession attuned trove (so that we kept the trove and didn't have to deal with tracking people down) means 1 room per profession for what accounts to 1 or two raffles, but then it becomes even sticker. If we run 9 bard raffles ( because three each sonic type) but only 3 ranger, and then no warrior.. ugh... I'm already cross eyed.

#

Then...

steel flume
#

It's a gamble, and at 100k+ a pop it's one I should stop doing. but that's a me thing.
I think the one win vs multiple wins depends more on what the goal is. If it's to put out cool items while collecting as much silvers as possible at a 'reasonable' price.. then it makes sense that it's how it is..
And no matter which one I enter. I have a MUCH higher chance of success than last year

void helm
#

We also deal with, but I don't want to buy a pass for my alt.

nocturne grove
#

Yeah, it's easy to ask for a change, but not necessarily easy to see the unintended consequences of it.

Edit: Well... I suppose if the consequences could be foreseen then they wouldn't even be unintended, axiomatically. 😂 Maybe "unfortunate" at most, due to there being no perfect solution, but once you can foresee outcomes, it's a matter of picking your poison.

void helm
#

There's a lot to think about for next year.

#

Overall, I think most people are happy with the format.

steel flume
#

yeah, and I entered some of the profession specific raffles so that I could give the cert to a friend if I won. lotta nuance

void helm
#

Tweaks will happen.

#

Nuance is important. The world isn't black and white and all the situations aren't either.

fervent vault
#

VolnCo disagrees🔥

gleaming hamlet
#

Either I won a prize and the system is fair or I did not win and the systen NEEDS to change..... pretty cut and dry

hollow steppe
#

2 ways to do trove. 1. Enter and participate on your main and be happy with whatever happens. or 2. Go full Degen and buy a pass for every alt and buy every token and enter every trove. Still be happy with results.

void helm
#

VolnCo has some bending stuff it does.. like keeping ghosts trapped on them instead of releasing them....

fervent vault
#

Shush. Thats a malicious rumor started by those jealous bastards in GoSCo

void helm
#

Mmmhmmm

steel flume
#

I know I'm probably sounding fairly negative about it, but I think how y'all handled the tokens this year works a lot better than last and I could argue both points about one win per pass vs multiple wins...so I think that may end up being more of a business decision. 🤷‍♂️

fast beacon
pine walrus
void helm
#

What are the three types?

#

sword, armor, shield... and....

steel flume
#

was there singing sword?

fast beacon
#

You mentioned in the comment that I was replying to that there were three types. Theres sword armor shield and singing sword

void helm
#

Oh, singing sword.

#

Did we do one of those?

#

Did I just miscount?

twin summit
#

I'm sure it has been said already, but just restating an opinion I had put elsewhere - I don't have any issue with the low odds of things like raffles and trove. I don't care about losing them, as long as they're going to someone who also wanted the item. But I despise the feeling I get after only entering the 5-10 troves that I had any interest in making personal use of - then immediately seeing a vast majority of them posted for resale at absurd prices. They shouldn't be a lottery windfall for winners, they should be a way to get rare items that are otherwise hard to attain. Attunement is the way!

nocturne grove
#

Yes, there were all four sonic cert types.

void helm
#

kk

fast beacon
# void helm Did I just miscount?

I'm honestly not sure, and I guess it isn't important, but the comment I was making is still relevant: It would have made more sense to consolidate the Sonic raffles and allow them to be redeemed for any Sonic rather than have several individuals for specific types

void helm
#

I don't know, I kind of throw out requests and see what comes back. A lot of times, I throw the kitchen sink and get surprised when it comes back, sometimes I only get what's left in the garbage disposal.

fervent vault
void helm
#

Definitely interesting feedback.

nocturne grove
steel flume
fervent vault
twin summit
steel flume
fervent vault
#

I should have probably bought 10 raffle tokens, put them in a dark box with a bunch of junk and charged 25k a pull. Saving that idea for next year

pine walrus
#

Lol

spiral dune
#

Ah yes, the "it's so simple that if they aren't doing it, it's because those in charge just don't want to" argument...Gang, we're not out to get you or make your EG time miserable. Things you think are simple are not necessarily so, and that does not equate to "those in charge don't want to do it".

We have to analyze GM time, feasibility for coding/updating/changing things, impact the changes would have (would it actually improve it or would it just shift the feeling it doesn't work from one group of people to another group), etc. and so on.

#

There has been a lot of great feedback here, so please don't get me wrong

#

I am not trying to shut anyone up, but please remember, it is never as simple as " we don't want to do this"

fervent vault
#

I didnt mean to imply anyone on staff is trying to ruin anyone’s fun. I apologize if thats how i sounded.

spiral dune
#

Well, essentially you're saying it is either easy to do or we don't want to do it....

twin summit
#

For the record, my above rant has nothing to do with staff - I've thoroughly enjoyed this EG and the offerings therein. I just haven't put it in the Kudos channel yet. My commentary is directly related to player behavior, which while I understand it - simply disagree with.

fervent vault
#

Not exactly? But i can understand if it reads that way. Im just saying if someone thought offering a duplicate raffle for attunement would be desireable, it would be possible. I wouldnt expect someone to commit double the GM time to something like custom swear work. More like, if we are gonna offer 4, 2 could be attuned. I really dont want to sound like I think staff did anything wrong or bad

steel flume
# spiral dune Ah yes, the "it's so simple that if they aren't doing it, it's because those in ...

I'm guessing 'attuned' isn't as simple as 'flip this flag' and that it's specific to the script? Dunno how difficult that is on custom pieces. And I know there's also the whole balance thing, not allowing too many of item X in the world, etc. which is one of my concerns. Does an item have to get less cool/unique/powerful in order to have a duplicate released. I'd say that boils down to 'a management issue', but I wouldn't say it's a 'simple issue' that ends up being a 'yes/no' from one person. Like I said, from the off hand comments from GMs on here it sounds like a pretty complex problem to solve

nocturne grove
#

I know not everybody's going to click my thing, so I'll repeat it here:

In case the Trove moves in the direction of profession restrictions, I've been pondering whether it would be good or bad to just straight up have bard/cleric/empath/ranger/etc. "anything-customization" certs.

Obviously there's more value to, for example, an empath cert that can be redeemed for 130, 203, 218, 220, 225, or TRANSFER than there is to a cert that's only good for a custom 218 or a custom 220. You'd end up with a larger number of raffles in which you could win the thing you wanted most out of those options.

It would also avoid the situation where, for example, someone's ranger companion has already been groomed and so there's nothing they care about in their profession-restricted room. With a "ranger customization certificate," they could instead get a custom 610/615 or even 130.

On the other hand, this idea would also mean more people entering (so more difficulty winning) and potentially make unfair demands of QC and staff in general since some customizations are more complex than others.

spiral dune
#

It's not quite specific to the items script but rather to ensuring that either the object (if it's a physical object) is attuned or the cert to redeem it is. I have no doubt that some better coding brains than I could figure it out and do it, but whether or not we should is an entirely different discussion. I don't even know how hard/easy/feasible it is, but it definitely is a larger conversation than just "do this."

I think Thandiwe and team have several awesome suggestions from everyone here

steel flume
#

I could see individual raffles working for profession limits, but it sounds like a nightmare to trigger that on/off per trove.. plus a ton of corner cases

spiral dune
#

I love just being the person doing various redemptions...it's fun. It took me a bit to get used to it and into a rhythm, because before, I would control when my raffle drew, so I could get all my winners at the same time, and then just slam out emails. Now, I've got to check daily to see if another one that I'm handling has been redeemed, but now that I have a spreadsheet and a process? Easy peasy!

#

I've done roughly 15 trove redemptions so far, more in QC, more emailed out, and of course, my live game winners. Getting you guys custom things makes me happy, and I'm glad we've got so much in the Trove that helps you get those things

steel flume
spiral dune
#

For the trove redemptions, I encourage everyone to whisper their non-play.net email address, because I have standard emails I send to everyone

#

so you will get as close to immediate feedback on your win as I can make it....so it may be delayed a day or so depending on when redeemed

nocturne grove
#

Minor suggestion: have the Trove certs say next year to whisper email address to them. 😄 I would never have thought of doing that until just now!

spiral dune
#

I have put in that request, for sure!

steel flume
#

I'm not a big custom X person, so I didn't enter any of those (besides the one I entered for a friend). However, I love the idea of them and think they fit in really well with EG. Hoping they don't get lessened/replaced by items next year.. even the ones that seem unpopular

void helm
#

For what it is worth, we tried a lot of new things this EG>

#

The distribution method on Trove and DELAYED was all new for this EG

thorny plinth
#

hope to see more trove, even if things are adjusted with it, and Delayed has been wonderful.

fleet gazelle
#

I liked the large amount of customization offerings between the trove, raffles and other methods during EG. I think thats in a great place.
Trove specific, mechanically it seems to be working great and I guess after thinking about it a bit, its no better or worse than raffles in terms of chance to win something.
its nice to not have to be logged in when it draws and to have 23.9 hours to pick up your win.

twin summit
#

The massive number of customization options in the trove has been fun to see

fossil raft
# nocturne grove Minor suggestion: have the Trove certs say next year to whisper email address to...

This is definitely going to be a big help. I didn't redeem my trove win immediately (even though I knew I was keeping it) because I thought I had to whisper ALL my details to it, like the design and all. Then I learned. Clarity on the certificate will help a LOT.

This is my first time really participating with the trove. Overall, I'm very happy with the system itself, frustrated with some of the players, especially when I've seen wins go up for sale that I personally wanted and would have made good use of for myself. Because of this, even, I entered a few things I didn't want for me or couldn't use just so I could give it to someone else that really did want that thing (and they did the same for me). So I probably did spend a bit more than I expected, and am balancing it with the fact that I managed to have a bit of luck.

If there is some way to have one trove drawing pull for multiple people (like the raffle you only enter once but pulls 4 names), or to have some attunement happen, that would be some huge improvements. But it does sound like that's not so easy, and I'll accept it with the knowledge that for the trove, at least, I didn't have to worry about being online during a time when being online at a certain time was very iffy for me.

So yes, some tweaks would be nice, but compared to the way things have been in the past, this is worlds better and I very much appreciate the change.

vital dock
void helm
#

...

dull veldt
#

Chiming in as one more person. I didn't win a single trove or raffle, got a pair of runner up signature verb prizes in ghoul and otherwise had great merchant luck. I feel like I got my money's worth out of EG this year in terms of the experience, but if I hadn't had the luxury of being able to sit around pretty much all day every day for EG I probably would've been less pleased like some others here.

Overall, I really like the approach that the trove offered. I could go to sleep at a normal time instead of staying up for a raffle. When my internet dropped (like it does about 5-10x a day), I didn't have to try to make sure I got logged back on in an panic right when things drew. I appreciate that the PP trove was PP owners only. I did feel that the price per entry was a bit high, though maybe it was just priced for convenience; others have delved into that already. I look forward to seeing the trove fine tuned for future runs since overall it seemed like a good route, even with some of its challenges and disappointments.

vernal sun
#

very guiltily turns in a certificate

steel flume
#

Another thing about the certificates, instead of waiting for an email with the rules/guidelines a page on the wiki that explains what is expected for each of the customs that's linked on the certificate would be awesome.

vital dock
void helm
#

I spent 11 hours researching and fine-tuning that data, but I'm sure you know best and have far better tools than I do to collect all the data.

wanton quartz
#

What’s broken?

vital dock
wanton quartz
#

What makes you think there’s something wrong

vital dock
slow oyster
#

trove winner names are visible when the trove draws?

thorny plinth
#

unless they are not online, editing to add too that if you dont catch it the instant it goes up its gone forever , unlike raffles where you can come look at the ticket ( I dont really mind either of these things honestly just noting)

slow oyster
#

oh I see

#

well you just gotta make a list of all the characters that are not online

gleaming hamlet
#

I knew something was up when I saw 5 characters named Thandwor, Thandwiwi, Thandori, Thandimo. and Thandology all picking up trove wins! 🧌

thorny plinth
#

hahah thandwiwi 🤣

dull veldt
#

The name Thandwiwi is AVAILABLE.
🤔
(Checking because that's a hilariously great name.)

spiral dune
slow oyster
#

I actually forgot that you could look at the ticket after a raffle draws haha

#

I've been living in blissful ignorance this whole time!

vital dock
nocturne grove
# latent idol THAT many people entered custom fatal afflares? at duskruin, the spin was for I...

Re-reading some of the messages from earlier in the morning and this jumped out at me. I can only presume it's because A) spin night requires being online at a specific point in time and B) the allure of winning for just 100k silver draws in a larger crowd than those who have 50,000 bloodscrip on hand.

Of course, given the odds of winning a 100k raffle with 276 entrants, EV would suggest that you should only enter if you would be willing to pay 27,600,001 or more silver for custom Fatal Afflares... But it's not as if people necessarily abide the math--and, even if they did, the number of entrants wasn't known until now.

It's also interesting that only one Fatal Afflares cert made it that high while the other three (so far) presumably were all under the 204 mark of the tent. I'd assume it indicates that participation spiked for merchant week and/or as more people became aware that the Trove opened early in the month, but on the other hand, the werepuppy got a high number of entries and that was only day 5.

vital dock
#

Line 2072: Are you sure you want to put your token into the drawer? Doing so will add your name to a raffle for a custom major sanctuary certificate. If you wish to continue and enter this raffle, REPEAT YOUR COMMAND within 15 seconds. There are no refunds! Please INSPECT the certificate for details about this item.
Line 21073: Are you sure you want to put your token into the drawer? Doing so will add your name to a raffle for a custom major sanctuary certificate. If you wish to continue and enter this raffle, REPEAT YOUR COMMAND within 15 seconds. There are no refunds! Please INSPECT the certificate for details about this item.

Dang, were there 3? Maybe I did miss one.

nocturne grove
#

The third sanctuary hasn't pulled yet. It's on the tray in the east Trove.

vital dock
#

Oh, okay.

So I did enter the custom sanctuary that nobody won?

nocturne grove
#

I just assume a spreadsheet row got deleted or something. I'm confident I entered too!

Edit: although, seeing your paste, I guess I could just go reconfirm in the logs.
Edit 2: yep, entered both sanctuaries.

vital dock
#

Anyway...

The DELAYED system is amazing.

Half the problem is the 1 prize for 400 people. Just release more and more people will be happy. The animosity and attempts to control who wins what and what they can do with it when they win, is because there are 300-400 people fighting over 1 thing. Stop the artificial scarcity.

The lesser/MAJOR prizes never worked because what one person sees as MAJOR another person sees as LESSER.

BE TRANSPARENT. Let us see how many tokens, let us see who wins (even if they're offline).

slow oyster
#

I am pro the solution of just flipping a coin between me, leafi and alastir for that custom sanctuary, this seems very fair

vital dock
#

You two can 50/50 it. I already won 4 trove raffles.

fervent vault
#

I should enter for the lols, but id rather someone who would value it win it

south granite
fervent vault
#

Also, i cant afford the entry 😄

vital dock
#

Go hunt the pits for an hour and you can afford 10 days worth.

fervent vault
#

Not my pit hunts lol.

nocturne grove
gleaming hamlet
#

We need to have ~500+ (all service passes) unique item trove system, everyone wins an item! GM time be dammed haha (extra not serious tag🧌 )

nocturne grove
#

The true solution to the Sonreeva quandary?!

vivid laurel
gleaming hamlet
#

haha, I can see EG ticket scalpers incoming....

plucky goblet
thorny plinth
#

make more GMs how hard can it be?/s

plucky goblet
#

Then I'll need to make a GM-in-ator to store them all in. /sigh

plucky marlin
steady mango
fervent vault
#

Future suggestion. Currently, we can turn our service pass into an exp orb. It would be really neat if we could, instead, choose a 1 use alter book

#

Speaking only for me. Xp is about the most unexciting reward there is

maiden hawk
#

I also entered for the major sanct. If you all don’t want it, happy to be in on that coin flip 😆

dull veldt
#

I like that though I also like the exp orb.

nocturne grove
#

A choice could be nice, though we’re getting a bit into feature creep. Hmm, maybe if it could turn into unattuned necro ring ichor…

fervent vault
#

Thing is, the orb is meant to take the sting out of a failed merchant/ raffle week. Thats why i suggested the alter book. Flip pass. Tear pass

steady mango
#

You shed a tear as you tear your unmarked service pass.

swift spoke
fast beacon
#

Request for next year: Please either put the purpose of the cert on the item in a way we can see the detail in-game, or make READ verb work on items in the trove

sour fox
fervent vault
humble steppe
#

My Trove rule of thumb:

If an item/certificate can be freely sold by one player to another, anyone with a pass should be able to enter the raffle (I’m cool with restrictions on who can enter - but then those items shouldn’t be freely sellable)

This way everyone’s service pass is more or less “equal”

rich coral
#

Lot in here today. I like the trove more than raffles, it's been much easier to participate and not knowing if I can be online at specific times or needing to worry about if I do win, how to even claim the prize if I was afk and so on.

Honesty no issues with the costs, drain those silvers. Made me pick and choose what to enter. Property trove was great, and as far as a way to raffle distribute limitee things, I think went well.

As far as suggestions, I personally would just prefer it to all be anonymous when drawing, even if the person is online at the time. I feel that some of the negativity is just caused by seeing folks complain about it, and giving people the choice if they wish to announce a win or not is better on the winner. Let's not be mad at people just for having good luck, it will always happen as long as rng is involved I anything.

nocturne grove
#

Wait, it's not anonymous? if it isn't, it definitely should be.

steady mango
#

If the winner is online when it draws, it announces it to the room the trove is in.

nocturne grove
#

Huh. Hiding the number of tickets but revealing the winner is a strange combination.

rich coral
#

just how the trove was programmed originally, always been that way as far back as I remember the trove existing, thus why I thought to request the update

nocturne grove
#

I could see how it made sense as a setup in the days of hourly Trove pulls, when every possible avenue to alert the winner--including having friends see them win and message them--needed to be exhausted, but yeah, definitely not necessary at this point with 24 hours to pick up.

vernal sun
#

...crap I misnotated conflated deadlines on something.

vital dock
#

I believe you could see the # of tokens originally.

I prefer transparency, even if someone wins more than I do.

Remember when that guy won that energy shield, even though he didn't even enter the raffle? Transparency helps to maintain integrity.

gleaming hamlet
vital dock
gleaming hamlet
#

How did anyone know? (I would have put my head down silently left the island....)

hollow steppe
#

I don’t recall that

void helm
#

I don't remember that happening either.

rich coral
#

it was not caligos, it was DR, it was that the previous DR trove was not reset, so all entries from the last trove of the previous DR were entered into the first trove pull of the new one, also we found out because the person said something, not because of some crazy sleuthing or anything, same thing would of happened if it was anonymous

And a second energy shield was put into the trove and everyone who put in tokens was refunded.

It is far more often that anyone whom might get lucky to win multiple times is harassed for doing so, even though it is just that, luck.

steel flume
#

I just want to point out again how upsetting it is hearing even the assumption the reasons things exist or have been removed from game is the fear of someone getting harassed.

vital dock
vestal nest
#

Harassed like popping out of hiding to immediately ask if someone wants to sell their win?

vital dock
#

Is that what you consider being harassed?

spiral dune
#

Secret drawing? I'm confused now.

For the trove error...it was a human error, as Vaemyr explained, and it was rectified. That seems fairly aboveboard and normal.

analog orbit
vernal sun
#

there were three of those.

feral sequoia
#

Yeah, the third one is up on the shelf right now. Per my logs, I entered both of the other two as well.

void helm
#

There were 88 entries for the one listed as 0

#

(had to search the logs)

vivid laurel
#

trying to parse what this means - Are you saying your data showed 0 entries for one that had 88 after log searching? This sort of makes me suspect the rest of the data if so.

void helm
#

No, as I said before. I had dropped all the data into an excel sheet and was doing some sorting. I had a feeling I dropped that field off, you can see me say it above.

#

All of my data comes from searching logs. I spent 11 hours doing it over the weekend after merchant week. Our logs are joyous to work with. /s

thorny plinth
#

Thanks for sharing the data and the correction, its always neat to see these sorts of things.

vivid laurel
#

oh I remember about the logs... and yes, they are a "joy" 😄

hoary summit
#

I would like to see everyone get like 5-10 trove tokens included with their service pass, bring back multiple entries per raffle, make the wins attuned and one major win per character. Maybe there could be a standalone trove only pass for sale for XX amount of silvers with no included tokens, and 5-10 tokens purchaseable via silver left in as a silver sink. As the majority of characters aren't entering a lot of raffles, giving everyone the best potential shot for an item they particularly like feels right. Could be chained with an increase in the amount of items going out, maybe the Trove could be set up, as Alastir said, to pull like 10% of the entries or something as winners. There isn't a mechanical item that's gone out in this trove that is in any way/shape/form gamebreaking, and fluff duplicates would be great in general.

#

Or 1 major win, 1 customizable win, unlimited lesser wins, etc. Troves could be set up any number of ways

swift spoke
#

Multiple entries was terrible and should not return

hoary summit
#

It's not that terrible if everyone has a set amount of tokens and an inability to acquire more

gives people the chance to shoot their shot or spread out their luck

void helm
#

Renaden, there's a major component missing in that 10% of all entries get the prize and that's GM power and QC load. There is never going to be a time where we offer customizations to 10% of raffle entrants. Just by stating something like that you can guarantee the maximum people would enter that raffle. Why wouldn't they? Their chances increase with each new entry.

#

The items that went into the trove are on the order of what would have gone out in jackpots -- which we removed because of the non-stop negative vitirol that happened around them.

hoary summit
#

I mean you kind of have to take that whole statement to parse that, if everyone only has 1 shot at winning a custom bolt or a custom room property, etc. I was more talking about physical items anyways

void helm
#

Either way, that unique GM built item that now 10% of winners have doesn't make it unique anymore does it?

hoary summit
# void helm Either way, that unique GM built item that now 10% of winners have doesn't make ...

Correct, but is that really such a bad thing? Pretty as the stuff is, a lot of this stuff gets altered, or goes into a locker - that's just reality.

Alternatively you could have the 1 CUSTOM win go out, and 1-10% additional "base" versions. So 1 person gets a 5x altered pair of starsong hairsticks, 200 people enter, 1-5 more people get a basic starsong dagger. Something along those lines, major/lesser wins in the same trove pull. 1 person gets a custom rare teadragon, 10 people get common teadragons, etc.

steady mango
#

Sounds like they should just put the items on a wall and let you pick what you want. 😂

void helm
#

You mean like a shop?

#

The raffle is a bonus. Otherwise, you can go buy the item.

hoary summit
#

for $1000 😉

spiral dune
#

You're still talking a ton of extra GM work, Renaden

steady mango
#

So you want them to give away $1000-$5000 of each item now!?

swift spoke
#

Personally, I really liked the implementation of the trove this year. There’s a lot to be said for the odds as they are, plus the convenience of having 24 hours to put your token in and not needing to be online for the drawing.

The tweaks suggested that I’d be in favor of are:

  1. revisiting the price (though for me, the convenience factor means I’m okay with paying more — especially since normal raffles have also been trending to similar prices); and

  2. Profession-gating the customizations that are limited to certain professions; though here, as well, I can see the benefit of opening it up, if a player doesn’t want to get a service pass with their character of the relevant profession

void helm
#

Honest, the attitude of "It's going to get lockered or altered anyway, so who cares what it looks like..." is one of the reasons that building jackpots was so demoralizing.

thorny plinth
#

While I don't mind attuned or major wins they present there own problems with the trove. I think attuned wins will stop some people from entering but it wont stop everyone some people wont care they just want to win something they might not even use it and then its lost to time forever. Secondly I dont care overly if people sell there wins, sometimes selling your win and getting silvers/BS/SS whatever is a big win for that person as they can now go and get themselves something they really wanted and also the raffle item has found a home in which it was wanted. As far as the one major win you're going to get people really upset about I want these 3 items but I REALLY want this item maybe that item doesnt come up right away do you enter the other and maybe take yourself out of the running, do you skip the first two and enter the one you want and then when you lose that get really mad you didnt shoot your shot with the first two you also wanted?

Raffles and Troves are a gamble, if you don't like the risk don't take it.

I've been personally very pleased with the direction these things have gone in as the years have gone by I think we're in a much better spot now.

spiral dune
#

If you want to talk a true consolation prize, then we would need to look at solid parameters...like must have a service pass, must have entered at least X # of troves, must not have won any troves, and must have under X amount of total merchant services on that character's merchant pass.

And then, if you meet the criteria...there is like a consolation cloak that is the same for everyone (much like we did at an auction one year several years ago).

And even that requires extra work, planning, navigating, and discussing.

There is always going to be RNG. There are always going to be times you don't get what you want. I think we've hit a good balance here with some nice takeaways for Trove improvement without quadrupling GM workload.

hoary summit
limpid matrix
#

Meanwhile
I'd take a Trove that's just pretty things GMs created hands down.

I literally have an alter doc that's just a collection of the jackpot/raffle alters I've seen go out over the years that I loved.

storm trail
#

Candidly, I'm a bit surprised more trove stuff isn't attuned. I don't mind either way, but if I'm Simu and I put an unobtanium claidhmore in the trove, and it gets resold by the winner to someone who would've otherwise bought the same item OTS, then that's a revenue hit. But if you make the item attuned, then it's only a revenue hit if the original trove winner would've otherwise bought the item.

#

I do appreciate there might be technical limitations to attuning and the trove, and any changes in attunement policy have to be weighed against GM effort to alter the trove mechanics. I know it's not a straightforward decision, and like I said, I don't feel super strongly about attunement one way or the other.

thorny plinth
#

My biggest problem with attuned is we dont do link accounts which is sad.

storm trail
#

Yeah, I know what you mean. There are definitely good arguments for both attuning and not attuning.

swift spoke
#

I think the hatred of people selling trove or raffle wins is more than a little unfair. It’s not always someone who already has a ton of silver or event currency who’s selling their win, and doing so can — as Melivn mentioned — be a game changer for that person. It’s also better than someone winning something attuned and either never using it or getting bored and shoving it in a locker. So what if someone sells their win? They’re happy they got some silver, and whoever buys it is happy they got something they wanted. I’m also aware of a number of people who win something and give it to someone else as a gift. Attuning removes that possibility entirely, too.

bitter thunder
#

Without a service, selling a major win is the only way I can see myself getting "rich" in GS without buying silvers.

#

So I enter too many troves like an idiot

zinc thunder
#

Overall the Trove felt pretty good to me...
Like the idea of combining the things that had multiples into one raffle to allow entries to go a little further and help odds for folks who do want a better shot at something. (One major sanct raffle, 3 winners).

Definitely don't like the idea of attuning wins. Starsong daggers are a great example. I would've loved to win those and play with them, but that's also a $1K set of weapons that I'm not entirely sure I'd use forever. Would hate to see those disappear forever because they're attuned and I discover I don't want to dual wield daggers.

Also don't like the idea of profession restrictions. I'm biased, because I MA. But I like the idea that I'm paying for a pass. I'm paying for a raffle entry. "I feel" I shouldn't have to buy a pass for every character on my account to have a longshot at winning one specific item for one of them. If my main (rogue)) has a pass, i should still be able to play the raffle for a familiar customization on my wizard. (Totally recognized this is a biased perspective as someone who has multiple characters).

Everyone had a chance to win something. The costs were not outrageous, but just enough that not everyone should or could enter ever raffle.

Good balance to this whole thing overall. Kuudos to everyone involved wiht putting it together and executing!

gleaming hamlet
#

You are entering the starsong dagger raffle for 2 reasons: either you want to use them or you are straight gambling and want to sell them for a profit. I feel like a majority of every trove raffle is for gambling/selling.... the number of players who dual daggers is probably a very small part of the community (overall) so most just want that cash money prize.... If you wanted to get real stringent you could have restricted said raffle to only characters with 1x OHE and 1x TWC or something like that. (But that would be probably crazy to code for)

thorny plinth
#

Some us of are just trying out locker Ardwen dont judge.

vital dock
#

Melivn made great points. Winning a raffle can change someones GS life, a literal Ragz to Riches story.

Also, attunement just means its getting won by some random person who can't use it, like a sorcerer winning a pure coraesine raffle, or whatever that actually-happened scenario was.

fervent vault
# thorny plinth While I don't mind attuned or major wins they present there own problems with th...

I will agree that even if you tell people something is attuned, a big chunk will not read or care. I saw at least 3-4 times this EG alone where someone won things that were either attuned, very specific, required an existing eligible item or something similar and at no point at all did that deter people from entering, forcing respins, re-raffles or just simply dead wins (wins claimed but not actually wanted or cared about) Several accounted attuned raffles were done at premie fest and resulted in highly desireable wins going to the dust bin as people either chose not to claim them, or claimed them on alts begrudgingly because they didn't know they couldn't transfer the win.

All that said, I really do hope we find some way to spread the wins a bit more.

gleaming hamlet
hoary summit
maiden hawk
#

I know of a few pure coraesine weapons won that were never used, I'd rather people resell wins than continue watching that happen😆 Attuned raffles or spins are great to mix in, but I'd be hesitant about leaning too far in that direction. I'd worry it would detract from people's broader experience with spins/raffles to see all the stuff they wanted in lockers and forever unavailible.

I thought the trove this event was great, and miles ahead of previous variations on raffles/spins/etc. Not winning stuff is less fun than winning, sure. No distribution method is going to solve that. This event the trove is predictable, forgiving of in game time and schedules, clear about the item details and stationary in game. All of those made the experience of participating better.

fervent vault
# gleaming hamlet Kind of like the Finvale crystals that every year get won by some non-RP raffle ...

the answer to this is that it never should have been a raffle. If you have RP focused items that are gonna character attune, you pick a date and time just like a raffle, gather players around a DM NPC, then you walk them off to a GM room like HESS spins. You FORCE everyone to use the CONSENT verb to know and agree they are going to be character attuned if they win. If the character responds no, they leave. If they DONT respond, they are kicked out. Then you spin.

hoary summit
#

Doesn't matter, half the people are going to just say yes so they can play with it for 4 minutes before shoving it in a locker

void helm
#

Wow, that's a lot of work on the GM's behalf.

#

Especially when you are running multiple raffles in a day, doing 8 + hours of merchanting

hoary summit
#

A lot of my fluff purchases have been "wow I might use this" and then never do and end up selling it or lockering it because the market is trashed beyond comprehension

maiden hawk
#

Is the trove as "hands off" as it looks? Speaking about GM time that seems like another potential benefit to the trove system. Add it to my list of reasons why I like the current trove 🙂

void helm
#

'Yea, once we build, we load and walk away.

fervent vault
#

Honestly, is it less work than having 2 alt characters with 3 letter names win things, forcing the gms to reset the raffle and have invested and hopeful players miss out on the second raffle or spin or whatever because they followed the rules set up orginialy, don't follow discord, aren't in the know and then miss out on a respin?

void helm
#

I'm just saying at some point the onus needs to be on NOT the GM.

spiral dune
#

Every GM is different, but yes, your suggestion sounds like more work.

fervent vault
#

I fully agree, but we have proven as players they doesn't actually work out.

spiral dune
#

I'll do an announcement, I'll put the rules out there, and if someone doesn't abide by them, it is on them.

#

and I then have the ability to determine if I want to get it out there in a different way

void helm
#

And to be clear, we don't have to respin or reraffle

#

There is no hard/fast rule on that.

#

We choose to.

#

(some of us)

fervent vault
#

And I know the thoughtful players are very grateful for that. I've seen this happen and the prize was not respun.

steel flume
#

The last thing I want to do is add more work to a team who is already probably doing too much. But I do support normalizing RP rewards/interactions in the game, especially at festivals.

maiden hawk
#

I think there has to be a line where we stop expecting the GMs to prevent players from doing something another player may not like. They paid to enter, let them have their shot. The notion that some players are more deserving of specific items than others is a strange one to me, and not one I think we need to reinforce with more rules and staff time

limpid matrix
#

I appreciated you taking the time to make sure all the teadragon spins were bound, Xynwen. Complete with waiting and nudging to make sure it was done before you moved on to the next.

fervent vault
#

What if the player who wins turns around and says "oh..I didn't know what this was, I can't use it/don't want it' and as a result the item never distributes. This has happened.

vernal sun
#

Then that's on that player. Especially in today's environment of available information.

slow oyster
spiral dune
fervent vault
#

At the cost of every other player though. Its 'ON' the player, but the rest of the players are the ones who miss out. I have no issue with a winner wanting an item for any reason whatsoever. But the ones where a player wins, and doesn't actually want their win because they didn't know or care what they were entering are the ones I'm referring to. I have no issue with winners who want to win.

limpid matrix
#

It isn't a question of "more worthy", in regards to the crystals. It's people literally rejecting the item more than once and needing respins/new raffles because they blindly enter every raffle without knowing what it's for. And then don't want a bound purely fluff divination item.

gleaming hamlet
#

GMs should deputize players to enforce rules for players! What could go wrong.... 🚔

maiden hawk
slow oyster
#

gotta say I feel like chain saws are an example of something that should definitely have detailed and clear safety instructions

hoary summit
steel flume
#

I guess you got a good deal on the stuff you bought.

maiden hawk
fervent vault
slow oyster
#

are you saying that items people won for free that they have to sell within 30 days or lose all the value and everybody knows this aren't commanding super high prices, that's crazy

hoary summit
gleaming hamlet
limpid matrix
#

Hot take: that's always been the hotness. It just took some convencing for people to believe it.

fervent vault
#

the endgame is always transmog

vernal sun
#

ponders 20 minute private GALD session Trove cert

hoary summit
#

How about we just get rid of raffles and stop selling text things for $1000 instead, make those prices reasonable and enough people will buy them to offset the difference pretty handily

fervent vault
#

Wyrom has said recently that isn't true

vernal sun
#

Because Wyrom's already stated that doesn't work.

vital dock
#

I'd like to know more about the circumstances in which it didn't work.

Because I find it hard to believe it wouldn't/couldn't work in the right circumstance.

hoary summit
#

Chasing ever more players away from the game because they feel like they can never get anything nice is a cool alternative then?

spiral dune
#

You can get tons of super nice things at low prices.

#

The uber items go for more, yes

limpid matrix
#

I can barely see the salt through all these strawmen.

spiral dune
#

but you really can have a lovely time in GS without ever chasing any of the super rare things if that's not your deal

slow oyster
#

yeah I feel like there are some weird anchoring effects when it comes to the concept of "something nice," although this is really a topic for another thread because the trove is not the primary way people get nice things

vital dock
#

The way loot cap and balance are now, you don't need any of that, and it's not getting you any more.

spiral dune
#

Correct (on the another thread)

#

Let's get back to the trove

steel flume
#

I hope we consider offering an attunement/BOP path next year.

vital dock
#

I hope we consider offering profession-specific troves. And leave everything else alone, because it's fine.

vernal sun
#

"I don't want to buy an extra pass for my that profession alt."

wanton quartz
#

We have class change potions now though

spiral dune
#

For everyone selling Trove certs, don't forget they need to be redeemed by 10/31! For those buying...buy quickly and redeem so I can get these things finished up! LOL

vital dock
spiral dune
#

Psh, that's someone else!

limpid matrix
#

I've redeemed but I'm staring cross eyed at my design doc
I'm almost glad I didn't get any other custom certs because my poor post merchant week brain

vital dock
swift spoke
#

At the risk of being a broken record, Xynwen, and knowing it’s not on you — any update on the custom sanct I redeemed but haven’t been emailed about? Is the GM responsible just waiting for the one that went out last night to be redeemed to tackle them all at once?

spiral dune
#

I'll check, Meliyara. Last I heard, they were emailing!

swift spoke
#

Okay, thank you!

vernal sun
#

Oh yay, I don't need to panic about the ez script cert I sat on for a couple weeks then.
ETA: I redeemed it, still waiting on email. It's in my DELAY list though, so.

nocturne grove
#

I see I missed an interesting discussion.

Thought the Trove was fantastic this year and doesn’t need any changes at all, though consolidating sonic certs and maybe even broadening to profession-customization certs is still on my mind. Those would be minor upgrades at most, though.

I actually went to bed last night suddenly struck with the question of why so many more people seem to get upset about seeing wins sold during Ebon Gate than other events. When someone sells a fox/dragonfly/lamb/latest pet from RW or a halo/spirit servant/latest jackpot from RoL, I basically never see any indignation about that.

So what is it about EG specifically that brings out the fangs? Or, alternatively, what is it about the other events that puts the fangs away?

If we could pinpoint that, then maybe there’s a way to resolve more Trove angst.

swift spoke
#

My assumption: simply a question of volume. None of those other events have as many prizes, and thus not as many being sold. Whereas when it’s another event with a bunch of raffles (e.g., Premium Fest), the claws are more likely to come out, even if not to the same degree as during EG.

steel flume
#

There's a lot of things that allow you to personalize your character and as Jaysehn mentioned, the end game for some is always transmog. And I don't think there's bitterness about people selling stuff and if I've come off that way that was certainly not my intent. I just think it's fair that some people want a better chance or the perception of a better chance by having attuned options.

nocturne grove
#

(to Meliyara) Ooh, that's a good point. Premium fest absolutely does have the same phenomenon going on. 🤔

(to Kiki) You've never come across that way, but some people definitely do!

fervent vault
#

I am 1000% not bitter about people selling stuff at all. Its literally the only way I get ahold of these things

#

But...do I think its healthy for the game to have someone like me decide "I want firewheel flares on my weapon", then go and pay 15 other players a milliion silver each to stand in at a raffle and then pay the winner of the raffle all of my in-game bank account for the prize? I dunno. " I " am fine with that, others may hate that this even is a thing that exists.

fast beacon
#

It's the age-old argument of whether or not it makes sense to enter every raffle just for the opportunity to win versus entering raffles just for items/etc you want

slow oyster
#

I think people are often operating off an intuitive idea of “fairness” that doesn’t necessarily abide by consistent logic, and the intuitive idea is something like “everybody who wants to use this thing should enter and the people who don’t want to use it should not”.

gleaming hamlet
thorny plinth
stable pumice
#

Heh so much of this conversation is why I dont even bother trying to get this stuff anymore. I never had much luck, people abuse the system, there's bad feelings all around. Dont know what the solution is but.. yeah... i just avoid it all these days.

thorny plinth
stable pumice
swift spoke
#

When entry is gated behind needing to buy a service pass for as many characters as you want to enter on, it’s a stretch to me to say that use of alts is abusing it.

nocturne grove
# gleaming hamlet It's shining a light on what most trove raffles (and most GS spins/raffles) are....

I definitely would make the counterargument that they (or some subset of "they") are trading value for their desired future item.

I'd also say, like with Ptolemy's example, resellers are the path for some people to get things in the first place. If everyone only entered for things they were going to personally use (and I'm saying this as someone who does exactly that), it would mean the raffles themselves are the only chance you have to win something.

If (just to pick a number) 25% of entries are people intending to resell, your odds of being able to obtain it by some means shoot up to 25% plus the base percent of you having won the raffle in the first place. Putting aside that an individual might not be willing or able to afford the resale price, the path at least exists.

balmy haven
steady mango
#

Was a copy/paste error. There were ~80 entries she said.

vital dock
#

At the end of the day, the root cause of all the issues comes down to quantity.

Increasing quantity would allow more people to win. Having more people win would reduce the amount of complaining.

And I get the whole GMs, QC explanation.

But if that's the part that is the roadblock, maybe it's time to re-evaluate the role of QC. If every GM can approve an alteration, every GM should have the freedom to also approve a Signature Verb, or this or that.

fervent vault
#

I dunno. I used to think that. Then i had to design a single custom room. And omg….its not easy to avoid key screw ups

vivid laurel
#

IMO there is nothing that can be done that would in any way reduce the amount of complaining.

vital dock
#

Probably true.

stable pumice
maiden hawk
#

mute discord for a day, zero complaints!

twin summit
#

“I got exactly what I asked for and now I’m overwhelmed with how I should handle it! GMs should’ve limited how much I could win.”

nocturne grove
#

If it is true, then the path forward is either A) not changing a single thing because any change would be a waste of time in terms of customer satisfaction or B) making only changes that improve GM satisfaction.

slow oyster
#

"better things aren't possible" seems overly pessimistic to me

vivid laurel
#

Didn't say they couldn't be better. I said the amount of complaints would not dwindle 😄

nocturne grove
maiden hawk
#

I'm going to read it as celebratory, "You've done the best job possible, well done! First round on me"

stoic karma
#

I do think the point Ptolemy makes about multiple winners of the same item for a 50k ticket vs now 100k per chance at a single item is valid

zinc thunder
stoic karma
#

It’s the tradeoff for not having to be in game to win but it’s an expensive tradeoff

zinc thunder
#

I personally like that there's still scarcity in a lot of these items.... a werepuppy would feel a lot less special if 200 people had them.
The reseller market does allow the scarce items to still see the light of day and find a happy owner.

stable pumice
#

🍿

nocturne grove
stoic karma
#

Paying cash to participate in a silver drain is probably why it feels icky.

twin summit
#

I will offer that part of the problem for me is that the resell market is based on OTS prices for the comparable gear/items, which are something else I think is questionable. I think I would probably feel differently about people winning raffles if “multiple hundred thousand event currency” wasn’t increasingly becoming the norm

thorny plinth
nocturne grove
#

Hmm, I do remember the "maybe next year" stuff for, like, profession-restricted rooms. I'll have to go back and see what was said about pricing.