#[Official] GSWiki Discussion, v2.0

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

plush totem
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We are shifting to this to under the help forum for ease of tagging and discovery. Please continue to discuss the GSWiki here and not the other one.

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Re: Verbtable Updates -

I mentioned a few weeks ago in the wiki-talk thread that I intended to update the Verbtable template to account for a fixed width on the verb tables. This change is now live. I've added additional information to the template page for guidelines, and would like to note that this change will not affect pages already using this template, so there is no immediate need to update these pages. You can view updates/changes to this template here: https://gswiki.play.net/Template:Verbtable

plush totem
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OKAY! Template:Delete has been updated to auto-apply the correct category (Marked for Deletion) and I've fixed the formatting of the banner to not look as funky and off-center as it was. Moving forward, this should be the template that is used when requesting that a page gets marked for deletion.

All that would need to be done with it is to put at the top {{delete}}. The template takes care of the category, so no need add that at the bottom of the page.

One point I would like to specifically mention is that the template does call out using the page's talk page to explain WHY the page is being marked for deletion. This is specifically for cases where the person who originally created the page is NOT the person requesting the page deletion and will require an explanation as to why. As noted by the template, if it doesn't meet the criteria, the page will not be deleted.

plush totem
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While it's not going to affect too many people (since I'm the one working on the verbs and continuing to finesse certain things), I've updated the Template:Verbinfo to switch to the adjective version of the race for when it does not properly sync in terms of the category. As an example... if "Elf" is entered into the race section, it will spit out "Elven" for the category. As I'm going through some of the older pages for the verbtable updates, I'll be taking care of these, as well.

plush totem
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Also discussed in the prior post that did not have response, or may need follow-up:

Hopefully that covers the bulk of what hasn't been fully responded or completed yet (as discussed in the original post).

fossil plank
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Xera,
2 additional requests as time allows.

The mechanics of demons and hitting them could use some entry and then reference on the demon, 330, and bless pages as appropriate, perhaps the bane page as well.
On the mechanics side, I think what I understand to be true is that not all demons are the same- like the normal hunting ones, but the invasions ones may or may nor require a bless, and if they do, a tier 5 sanctification or above works, as does 304 and voln bless, in addition to an 8x or greater weapon. I think bows may still be bugged. Part of my request would be to verify the accuracy as some of the information was from Dev during the proposal but nothing I can see verifying post proposal- so would ask if someone could run the info through the appropriate GMs and then cross reference where appropriate

Also, from the previous thread I could use some help cleaning up the information displayed in the bigshot page. Its a lot of info and I've condensed/compiled it as best I can, but it looks frightful

plush totem
# fossil plank Xera, 2 additional requests as time allows. The mechanics of demons and hittin...

Heya.

So I'm definitely not mechanics-focused, but I've funneled the demons request up to the ones who are more knowledgeable than me on it.

Re: Bigshot, so we as GMs tend to stay away from pages dealing with lich, which this would fall under, so please understand that it's not out of reluctance to assist in this. It's more that we do not want to give the impression of being involved on those sorts of things. I can offer general guidance on formatting, but I wouldn't be able to actually touch the page.

real quest
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@fossil plank , first thing I'd do is something with the table of contents. it's a bit unwieldy and would likely benefit from being on the right. (stupid timer)

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Other than that, I kind of like the layout. Maybe make it so the TOC is limited so it's not so long. Long. Like this timer, but in word form. Five minutes never felt so long.

plush totem
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Sorry, I still don't know how to discord.

plush totem
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So,I figured out how to speed up slow mode (ironically, I find it easier on mobile), so I've lowered out to 1 minute. I don't want to remove it completely, and one minute seems to be a good threshold.

tardy iron
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Cross-posting to not get lost from the other forum post. I politely request a list similar to the one currently being created for SK items for MK items for what is appropriate to be added/requested when creating an MK item.

plush totem
real quest
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@plush totem, who do we speak with regarding personal wiki issues?

plush totem
real quest
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Thank you. I'll let it rest for today and sleep on my feelings.

real quest
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@plush totem , I wrote a synopsis on something. I deleted it. Someone else put it back verbatim. Is that acceptable?

plush totem
real quest
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Thank you. I have done so.

real quest
plush totem
real quest
plush totem
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Responses are issued when necessary and will come after discussion has been had and concluded.

real quest
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Thanks.

real quest
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So, I made this page a few weeks ago. I based the name on two censers I had. I have since learned that they aren't all metal. Should I move the page to a different name?

https://gswiki.play.net/Metal_censer

plush totem
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I can't look into this right now, but when I can, I will.

real quest
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I have since learned that the script name is just censer.

fossil plank
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I noticed that several of the policy wiki pages are not updated with some of the recent policy additions

plush totem
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Regarding game policy or wiki policy?

fossil plank
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game-- slow mode.... policy 18 is one

plush totem
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Okay, could you clarify which pages, exactly?

fossil plank
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policy (other) do not redirect but the top listing is the Policy page, which has the in game text

plush totem
fossil plank
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concur- that's what I was trying to say 🙂
it looks like the afk scripting policy and the redirect should not exist.

plush totem
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Which is why that page will likely not be updated by us. The redirect should actually be set to go to the policy page.

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Correct.

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Thank you for bringing it to our attention.

plush totem
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The redirect has been fixed to go to the actual Policy page/subheader. The AFK Scripting page will require further discussion amongst the wiki team. has been set up as a redirect to Policy, as well.

real quest
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I was looking at organizations, and I was thinking maybe a category for non-player run organizations would be helpful. Examples would be those that include PCs like order of the swan and the night's blade. Okay to add a category there?

plush totem
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Please hold off on that for now as it may require additional discussion for clarity. So there's actually a category already set up for Organizations. My suggestion is to use that, please.

real quest
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Great, thanks!

tardy iron
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Can I suggest someone please take a look at updating some of the wiki to correlate with the blessing doc changes. Specifically 307 now keeps a bless for the group. Not sure what other abilities may have been missed on updating their wiki counterparts. Probably not a bad idea to go thru any other finished proposal doc that is now fully implemented and make sure their related wiki pages are also up to date. Thanks.

kind tinsel
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I can at least throw that up there for the specific item

livid galleon
plush totem
plush totem
livid galleon
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So I have made that update, but I am unsure if there are other towns with new shops that need updating. I'll try to keep an eye out. (looks weird though, with my rudimentary wiki skills)

wooden dagger
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as I recall, @real quest was working on the grocers, and thought we needed a new "grocers" category since they don't actually sell immediately edible food, but ingredients

livid galleon
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Feel free to re-categorize at will. But at least it's up there now and available for viewing. I had a hard time finding it last night without knowing the shop name.

real quest
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The wiki is a group effort. I admittedly forget things like that from time to time.

wooden dagger
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definitely way better to have it up there

real quest
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Like I say, I know enough to be dangerous.

livid galleon
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Also, this section on the Solhaven page seems redundant / out dated, as I'm sure it's the case with other towns. Would it not be better to simply link to the NPC shop page? https://gswiki.play.net/Solhaven#Shops

real quest
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Sure. It's fluid. What worked when that was added may not be the best way now.

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We didn't have a glut of new shops at that point the way we are now, so it may have been easier to maintain.

wooden dagger
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“Not my edit” syndrome is a challenge for all of us when it comes to stuff that should probably be cut

plush totem
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The NPC shops will likely get revisited in the coming months as the template needs some updates, as well. I wouldn't remove the list of shops from the town page as it's still helpful to be there.

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If anything, this is a good case for section transclusion

real quest
kind tinsel
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I personally try to keep my edits to just adding or revising information, as I don't follow the style information enough to be comfortable making major changes. I figure it's better to have complete information in the current format and leave creating whole new pages etc. to others

real quest
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@plush totem, speaking of tranclusion: I was searching for citizenship only verbs and having a hard time. It's obvious now, but I was thinking they might be good to be included on the town page. The way the table is, however, doesn't lend itself to just linking the town's section, or transcluding it. Any other options?

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Several of us had no idea where to find the Ta'Vaalor verbs, so I did add a list of them and a link to the citizenship page itself on the Ta'Vaalor page. But I felt like if I couldn't find it, maybe other people couldn't as well.

plush totem
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The verbs are still a work in progress. Because of the sheer size of the project overall, it will be a bit before things are transcluded where they would otherwise need to be.

real quest
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So, that's a reasonable end plan? I can, for now, add a resource or verb section that links to the current page. It just seems to make sense to have them accessible directly via town info.

plush totem
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I'm not saying anything either way I'm just letting it be known that the verbs is a massive project And it is still a work in progress. Therefore there are things that may or may not be complete at this current time but there may or may not be plans to complete them.

plush totem
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@tawdry silo I'm just going to stick this here so as to not further clutter the Hyacinth post, please check the discussion tab on your vignette.

tawdry silo
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i have no idea how to do that- i think i see it at the top

plush totem
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Yes.

tawdry silo
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you might need to give me more information on which one? I don't see anything on "now is not the time" which is what I just created but haven't finished editing. I opened disucssion in a new tab and its blank?

plush totem
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FWI related 2022?

tawdry silo
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They are all like that I guess. IDK what I did a few days ago let alone a year+ ago. what are the ramifications of this if it doesn't get cleaned up with the old ones? will they be removed or something down the lines and I should back them up? I thought I had it in me to climb up this hill again but I don't think I do. I'd rather just not engage or I'll try and find someone who is willing to sherpa me up the hill.

plush totem
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Nope, they can just be moved to the correct naming convention. It's relatively simple to do if you'd like me to walk you through it.

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Do you see the tab at the top that says More?

tawdry silo
plush totem
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Are you logged in?

tawdry silo
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yes, and it looks like all my vignettes are under the an Ordim url and none are Ordim_(prime)

plush totem
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Okay, so, your top tab looks different than mine, so I was confused for a minute... The tab that says "Move" is what we want.

tawdry silo
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select the move tab from the url of each vignette or from the main character page?

plush totem
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Each vignette. It'll open up the next screen which should have:

image.png
hard owl
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I need to pin the string to do this right

tawdry silo
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ok im going to start from the top ... slowmode

plush totem
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All you'd need to do is change "An Ordim" to "Ordim (prime)" - no need to touch "/FWI2022" in there.

tawdry silo
plush totem
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lower case prime.

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Also, no underscore

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Ordim (prime)

tawdry silo
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is the underscore in the URL just a place holder for the space?

image.png
plush totem
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Yep!

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Primarily for external links. Internal links don't use the underscore.

tawdry silo
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any other changes before I click move page? Will I have to update the link on the main page to this subpage?

plush totem
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Should be good to go. Thank you for taking care of this, as we (the Wiki team) do try to avoid making changes to character pages as much as possible without communicating that to players.

Yes and no... the link will redirect to the correct page automatically however (and I left you a TALK/discussion message about it), the links are set up as an external link is. Doesn't harm anything, but there is a way to set up internal links.

tawdry silo
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look at me I did a wiki

image.png
plush totem
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🎉

tawdry silo
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so the linking based on the talk page, if you are willing and think its beneficial to have here in this chat to point to others like "look, even Ordim can do it and here is the step by step" should I put the pictures here and confirm what needs to be done?

plush totem
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I think it can be very helpful for people who are still wiki shy, certainly. 😄 Not everyone is good with just words and visuals make a huge difference. I'm big on using pictures to explain things.

tawdry silo
plush totem
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Okay, so those are set up as external links, basically links that are meant for websites that are not the GSWiki.

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So if we look at the first one, we can actually set that up to be much simpler as an internal link.

tawdry silo
plush totem
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So to set that up as an internal link, we'd double bracket it, and actually remove everything before the subpage name.

tawdry silo
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like this?

image.png
plush totem
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so it would look like: [[/KrakenRises]]

However, the link it would produce would be: /Kraken Rises

To make it look like a proper looking link, we'd want to do [[/KrakenRises|The Kraken Rises]]

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This would produce the link as: The Kraken Rises

tawdry silo
plush totem
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Yes, but no space before or after the |

tawdry silo
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and URLs are case sensitive? so /now is not the time - would not be the same as - /Now is not the time

plush totem
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Yes, they are very case sensitive.

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Also, and this is completely up to you, of course... you don't necessarily have to have a table setup for those links. There are a few ways to do it so that they don't all pile up in the same line.

tawdry silo
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I'm not sure I'm ready for the wiki fast lane just yet - but I was trying to setup the page for the vignette and clicked on create page with some sort of capitalization in the url, how can I, an Ordim, find a page that I created that isn't linked to the main so I don't create a second similar page?

plush totem
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Do you recall the name of the vignette page you created?

tawdry silo
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now is not the time (this isn't a 'whos on first' joke, thats the name)

plush totem
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Did you save the page because I'm not seeing that in recent changes?

tawdry silo
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I did ordim_(prime)/now is not the time , into the url hit enter, clicked "create page" started editing, then closed that tab to address the issues in talk page.

plush totem
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It didn't save if you closed the tab

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What you can do, however, on your page with the links, is set up a link for it.

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[[/now is not the time|Now is Not the Time]] (or however you want to case it), select preview, then right click the redlink to open the page in a separate tab (I always suggest separate tabbing things). Alternatively, you can just hit save page after doing the link, and clicking the red link.

tawdry silo
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Thank you and future apologies and thank you when I forget this, but in the moment I am now ready to wiki better!

plush totem
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You're welcome! I always try to answer questions that may come up if I'm around and available.

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But we do have other editors in this channel who can field responses if I'm not, as well!

real quest
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I'm happy to help if you need anything, @tawdry silo . What I don't know off the top of my head, I'll copy from somewhere else 🤣

plush totem
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Why do I want that emoji so bad.

tawdry silo
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oh, ok so one more related to where we all started here - if linking to a subpage of your character page on a different high level page, how do you do the internal link? (we are still pretending I am not good at this for everyone else's benefit right?)

wooden dagger
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if I wanted to link to a subpage from another page I would do [[Ordim/Subpage]]

real quest
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[[your page name here]], if I'm understanding your request

plush totem
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What Tikba said is correct

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Format would be [[Pagename/Subpage name]]

tawdry silo
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how it started

How its going.

Nope, its capital N lol

image.png image.png
wooden dagger
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very generally, the title that appears at the top of any wiki page is also the text used to internally link it, and you can use vertical bars to change the appearance of that link as you have done there

real quest
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I always just copy and paste the page name to cut down on errors.

real quest
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I added the NPC tavern shop on the Flotilla to the wiki. It's the only menu based shop I saw open. The NPC shop template doesn't work well with the town name "Flotilla". The Flying Squirrel is the tavern in Flotilla. I didn't make a category since someone needs to decide if it should be THE Flotilla or Flotilla.

spark relic
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I know that you can't put creative works onto the wiki that you did not write that are from private websites. what is the stance on porting over the Elanthian Times articles onto the wiki? they were a weird quasi-official publication, in that staff compensated players in game with prizes for submissions (and I believe were also involved in the curation process), although the articles themselves were not hosted on play.net, but instead on gemstone.net (which is also an official Simu website, or was)

real quest
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What family of creatures does a toad come under?

fossil plank
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it looks like the mechanics for divergence and associated pages need to be updated

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I'm not sure if deleting or archiving makes the most sense, particularly on the linked section for area mechanics on Atoll, HinterWilds, Moosedge, Vineyard

wooden dagger
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oh, yeah, hmm, a lot of wiki pages need to be updated for the new divergence changes. I would probably mark the divergence page itself with the deprecated template

wooden dagger
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I took a run at the divergence updates for the main page, the area pages, and all the short duration spell cooldowns. still to do would be updating the min roundtime on all weapon table templates

real quest
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@shy marten , when DR gets here can I move the apron post to a subpage so I can make a page for the item? That apron might make me take up forging!

shy marten
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The announcement? No, it'll make the announcements page all haywire.

real quest
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Hm. What will be a good name for the item page?

shy marten
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the script is called Smooth Smith's Apron

real quest
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Ah, drop the plural! Didn't even occur to me, thanks! I'll know to look at that for any other items in the future. ETA: Editing feels like cheating 🤣

shy marten
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Hehe

real quest
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At least it's not a long slowmode.

serene lake
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Maybe Announcement wiki pages should start with Announcement: like the Proposal: page system we got last year so that sort of thing can't happen?

shy marten
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the TL:DR answer to that is that I considered it but it wouldn't work with the forms system we have available.

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And I was trying very hard to make the announcements system on the wiki as user-friendly as possible since it has to be used by GMs with wildly variable skill/comfort levels with the wiki.

fossil plank
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The trade and trading chart pages likely should be updated with the new trade chart

green summit
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I updated the template, still waiting on clarification for the smaller towns like pinefar, vornavis, etc.

fossil horizon
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I see there are Storyline categories on the wiki for all towns except Ta'Illistim, which are really helpful for following events. Please can we have one too?

serene lake
fossil horizon
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Thank you!

real quest
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This may be on the list, but is there anything being considered on standards for things like these? Forgot about the slowmode. Hold on

plush totem
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For storylines? Yes.

real quest
plush totem
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We've been seeing a lot of activity between players AND GMs very recently with storylines which is amazing and great, but there aren't standards in place so it's kind of... bouncing around in terms of how things are getting set up. So yes, the goal is to standardize how storylines/pages/categories are set up, but we may not have that information up and available until the end of this month/beginning of next month at the earliest.

real quest
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All right. I know a few of us are getting confused on where to put things outside of logs.

plush totem
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Yep! Totally get it, I assure you.

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We're hoping once we have the standards/style guide in place for them that it makes it easier for EVERYONE involved.

real quest
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A lot of of us are reticent to change anything a GM has done (some people won't TOUCH those pages), so we rely on you, dear Xeraphina, to keep us up to date. No pressure, toots! ETA: I got distracted and forgot my point)

spark relic
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no pressure

plush totem
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I understand the reluctance, and until standards are... standardized, that reluctance is A-ok! Once we have it set up and in place, you can consider it (aside from official documentation and locked pages) free game to have it meet those standards.

real quest
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Okay, that is to say, even if we know something should be done certain way, we are reticent to fix it, and aren't even sure if we should. I think that's a safe statement, and more what I meant.

plush totem
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It's important to note that the wiki is made up of many contributors, and that includes GMs... and not all GMs are comfortable editing the wiki, either.

real quest
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Yep, I know a couple who are glad for you to help fix up their items pages and stuff.

serene lake
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The Sylvan Mourning Document announcement has a typo in the title (Syvlan).
On the topic of making the announcement pages stand out more, would it work if announcements started with the date? 2023-02-06 Sylvan Mourning Document or even just year/month? It would prevent them from coming up first in wiki searches and might help keep the announcement Category page tidy too, like how the Storylines category has it split out by year.
We've just been getting a lot of announcements the last few weeks so it's on my mind. Might help keep the stuff that starts with New or Solhaven or other real common leading words distinct too.

real quest
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I have an item without an analyze (and so, no script name) that I think is worth having an article for. What can I do? Just make some logical name for it as a temporary filler? I've bugged it about no analyze.

serene lake
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Is it something other people might be able to help identify? Googling a unique but generic part of the messaging in quotes can sometimes pull up more information, in case it has an existing page under a weird name.

real quest
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I've looked for it fairly intensively. it's a locket with a bunch of grooming scripts. I'm leaning towards Grooming locket for now. I've actually never seen anyone else with one, which is part of the reason I wanted to make a page. So maybe people will see they have one and want to use it

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It was sold in a shop with scripted haircombs. Like, the kind you comb your hair with, not the kind you you style with

serene lake
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If you provide some of the messaging, a GM can (potentially) pull the proper script name. You can always put it up on the wiki under Grooming locket and just leave a note on the discussion page that it's a placeholder name in case nobody's able to turn something up now. Pretty easy to redirect/move pages if necessary.

real quest
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@plush totem , will you be updating the Help:item scripts copy/paste code with the new verbtable 90 code? I keep forgetting to change it!

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It not, I'll make myself a copy in a text file that I likely will forget to use 🤣

plush totem
fossil plank
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there are still several references to the Trove being part of DR throughout the wiki including on the actual Trove page, etc

plush totem
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can you link the specific non trove pages, please? With the update to remove it going live starting this run, it's easy to miss where it all is besides main DR page and Trove page

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I'll get to updating that today

fossil plank
plush totem
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right... I get that... I mean the others.

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Main DR page and treasure trove page are the obvious ones

fossil plank
wooden dagger
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(I already edited the arena/heist/sewers pages haha)

serene lake
plush totem
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Okay, I've added the deprecated template to the two trove pages, as well as the raffle token page

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That will stick them in the obsolete category, as well

plush totem
fossil plank
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no worries. The main ones that drew my attention were the individual methods to achieve BS still had token info in them, but it looks like Tikba already got to those.
Thanks,

plush totem
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I tweaked the way the treasure trove page shows up on DR category page just to match how it was done for the EG/Caligos page and DSD (at the end of the description, bold/italic discontinued in (year)

plush totem
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As a heads up, we are currently working on getting the shop inventories wikied, so we appreciate your patience as we work through this process. We ask for the time being that users refrain from making edits to these pages until we give the clear, if only to ensure work does not get erased by either party. Thank you!

plush totem
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The list is mostly complete, however we will have some minor adjustments that need to be completed throughout the weekend

plucky wyvern
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I have done my wiki service help for the year - https://gswiki.play.net/Rockflares
I don't know if we have a template for it or not, but if we do I can adjust it, at least it has some info added

wooden dagger
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zhouy1 you are my hero

real quest
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I made a wiki page for the weather orb but the name that it's linked to on the shop page is actually weather orb (osa). I don't do anything with the shop pages so I made a redirect using weather orb (osa). Just a head's up as to why I did it that way.

real quest
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I added two new color templates: Purple and maroon. I think they are dark enough to work on the grey and the white backgrounds. I was going to add navy but it seemed to dark, and pink and fuchsia were two pale.

vestal wagon
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https://gswiki.play.net/Elanthian_Divination:_Elves

Under the "Nalfein Black Rose Deck Translations"

There is a an entry for a cluster of blue-centered white delphinuris - but I believe it is probably supposed to be "white delphiniums" which is kind of weird because larkspur is already on there. I'm assuming this might also need to be bugged in the "Black Rose Deck" but I'm on my way to bed so I'll check that in the morning if no one else gets to it.

fallen venture
fallen venture
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Based on the description, it was definitely delphinuris, which is now delphira. That page is updated and Thandiwe will look at the deck script when she has time. Delphinuris was one of the recently replaced ones (https://gswiki.play.net/Updated_Flora_Terms).

spark relic
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Xynwen, salorisa is also on that page (and in the deck script).

fallen venture
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ah thanks!

spark relic
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How would you prefer rooms with the obsolete terms be handled? BUGged in game?

fallen venture
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Yes, please!

real quest
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Does Category:Icemule Storylines need to be made or does the vignette that leads there need to be adjusted to Category:Icemule Trace Storylines?

umbral summit
real quest
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I guess that's saying "it's really hard to get there if you don't have at least x climbing ability", which yes, as far as level goes, is misleading.

wooden dagger
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those levels seem to be the lowest level of a nearby hunting area (except for teras where it is, in fact, the level requirement to board the glaesen star)

real quest
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I know a couple of them have climbing checks that would make it around that level. It's possible the information is misconstrued both ways.

umbral summit
plush totem
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As i mentioned before, the wiki team is working to solidify storyline standards. Please hold off on creating new categories for these as that will be included in the review

umbral summit
pallid pine
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Oh, lol.

plush totem
#

I've done some very quick minor edits to it, but there will likely be some more coming soon. I'm just in the middle of somethings and if I shift my focus to the wiki... I get rabbit-holed and then nothing else I need to get done gets done.

pallid pine
#

No worries. I will follow the lead of what I see you've changed and fix the other similar things.

plush totem
#

👍

#

I'm also going to remove the winner column, and we've discussed the why before.

#

Duskruin Mania, like Duskruin Arena, Bloodriven Village, Bank Heist, will be the "main" page and the dates/auction info will be the subpage. I'll get a blurb together for the main page soon and links and all that.

#

I've added it to the main Category:Duskruin as links, as well.

pallid pine
plush totem
#

Wyrom's the zombie, not me

pallid pine
#

There was no corpse or body option, I don't know my emojis very well.

plush totem
#

🤣

plush totem
#

To answer this question, GM announcements should not be edited in any way by players. It is akin to editing official documentation. The reversions were additionally discussed by the wiki team before doing so.

twilit nacelle
#

@clever acorn just provided some really useful information in #empaths about 1115 Wither, that is not clear on the Wiki page. I’m hoping that this info can be incorporated in the page. Here is Merils quote, which was very clarifying for me.

“WIth 0 summoning there are 3 disintegration cycles and one HP cycle at the end; with 150 summoning there are 4 disintegration cycles and one HP cycle at the end.”

I had started the conversation asking why I was never seeing a crit kill after the 5th cycle.

Thank you, and kudos to @clever acorn

kindred talon
wooden dagger
#

good to have on there! I think ideally we would have individual wiki pages for the various items you can get from the simucoin store but that would involve a lot of new pages

kindred talon
#

I don't mind https://gswiki.play.net/SimuCoin but what I think is key is the ability to search for the name of an item and land there. It's #13 after a bunch of log files when searching for A Silvery Blue Potion - I'm not very versed in editing Wikis, but is there a way to tag text that marks it as important to the search engine?

wooden dagger
#

well, my point is that the absolute best way to make sure somebody will see a particular page when they search for certain text is to make a page that has that text as its name

plush totem
pallid pine
#

How does one apply to become apart of the Wiki team?

plush totem
#

You become a GM. When i reference the Wiki team, I am speaking specifically about the GMs most involved in it. Moderators are a part of it, but their job is separate and handles things such as conforming to guidelines. Anyone can contribute to the wiki, however, as it only requires that you have an account, but contributions will be subject to moderation and may be edited by other players.

pallid pine
#

I don't want to be a GM!

Are there like "wiki goals" that a group of people are working towards, or it's just all individual contributions?

#

Mostly asking because there are ... gaps? Of knowledge. And while I can probably gather a lot of that information, some of the formatting goes beyond me when it gets to certain things.

plush totem
#

I have specific goals that I work towards (consider it my list that is ever growing, but aside from that, it's really individual contributions. I'm sure individuals could get together and figure out what goals they'd like to see come to fruition, as long as it is not something I am actively working on (in this example, consider the verbs pages - not new verb pages... the old ones I'm working on trying to update and conform to new standards) as that could cause issues with my completion tracking.

pallid pine
#

Maybe consider creating a group to tackle projects, with your official blessing/recruitment? I feel like it would have more... thing, if the group formation was sponsored by a GM.

Off the top of my head we could use:

  • Spells found on scrolls, broken down into attack/defense/offensive categories.
plush totem
#

There will not be an officially sanctioned/recruited group for player edits for any number of reasons, but the primary one is that people are already free to tackle things on the Wiki without GM involvement. As I said, you are more than welcome to try to create a group and do things within that, but it will not be something that is official or recognized in that regard by the Wiki team.

#

As far as the spells found on scrolls, This is something that was mentioned to the wiki team by dev, so it is on our radar.

wooden dagger
serene lake
#

Excel Find & Replace is amazing for converting stuff to wiki tables. I can zip out a wiki table in like 30 seconds.

#

So like, to make the shop listing table on the DR teaser page, I just copy and pasted the whole thing into Excel, cleaned and sorted the data, and then added a new column with ="|[[BVShop:"&A3&"|"&A3&"]]||[[BVShop:"&B3&"|"&B3&"]]||" etc, then just copied that whole column over to the wiki. If I'm doing a REALLY big block, I'll just stick in a character that never appears like ^ and do a find and replace on that and put in a blank linebreak (CTRL+J) for the ^.

#

The ^ to linebreak trick works for doing the |- in between table rows too.

shy marten
#

You can also just put the stuff you want to put in the table into an excel/googlesheet and there are converters that will make it into a wikitable for you that you can just cut and paste.

real quest
shy marten
#

hehehe, did I just blow your mind?

real quest
#

Clearly we need a little place to gather wiki tools like this. I'll add that to my page and maybe when I'm feeling better I'll make a page for a list of wiki tools.

plush totem
#

Meanwhile, I'm stupidly content to do the tables manually. Me and tedium... yes, that tracks.

plush totem
real quest
#

That said, it's good, IMO, to learn things manually so you understand WHAT you're doing and not just how to take a shortcut. But what a shortcut!

pallid pine
#

How would I go about requesting a jpg I uploaded to be deleted? Or maybe, a few, because I didn't understand how it worked.

plush totem
#

You can add {{delete}} to the file page and it will add it to the delete request category which will be reviewed by moderators/admin and deleted

pallid pine
#

Thank you. What if I uploaded 1, 2 ... 6 different pictures under the same file name and want to delete the extras?

plush totem
#

Use the Discussion tab and make a note that you want the earlier versions only, not the latest upload, deleted. Make sure when you do that that you sign it with ~~~~

pallid pine
#

I think I'll make it easy on everyone and just add {{delete}} and start all over now that I understand how it actually works. Thank you though.

plush totem
#

That's up to you, but I definitely suggest getting more accustomed with the Discussion/TALK pages as they get used a lot between editors/contributors about various subjects.

pallid pine
#

In January it looks like a new material called Ghostwood was created. I've added the entry onto the wiki as https://gswiki.play.net/Ghostwood - It's been added to the materials list as well. If someone would like to provide additional details about the material, I can add it to the wiki.

pallid pine
plush totem
pallid pine
plush totem
#

For the sake of clarity, ghostwood is not its own material. It is a type of wood that regular "wood" (mundane woods) can be altered into.

#

Therefore, it shouldn't have its own page. It has no special properties on its own in that regard, similar to lasimor or other strictly decorative woods

pallid pine
#

If they're sold OTS and a unique material to the Elanthian realm, they deserve their own page.

For example: I have this wood runestaff, what woods can I alter it into. Here's a list of woods that fall within the wood category.

Okay, how about this wood, what does it look like? What color is it? Where does it come from?

plush totem
#

They should be listed on this page

pallid pine
#

I added it to Category:Woods, but as a unique wood to Elanthia, I feel like it deserves its own page. It's not ash or birch or something we can google to understand what it actually is or looks like

#

I'd actually like to see real world woods and elanthia woods separated in that table. I haven't touched it because Motte was working on something but it's been a while now.

fallen venture
#

Could add a column to mark Y/N for real world and then it could be sortable off that

serene lake
still basin
#

Can someone who is more wiki-smart than I add Chainspears as incompatible with lesser moods?

outer pivot
#

I created a very rough page for the recent DR release of fullmetal crucible molds and added the frame options to it. Anyone who enjoys wikifying things, be my guest to add or update it. I've done what I could.
https://gswiki.play.net/Fullmetal_Crucible_Mold

plush totem
pallid pine
#

Anarchy! Chaos! Free the spice!

vestal wagon
#

So this is where the channel went. Thanks Xeraphina! Exactly what I was looking for

umbral summit
#

Request for discord channel for unofficial wiki page update requests. Somewhere we can make a thread for specific pages and players can post information that might be missing for a talented unofficial wiki editor to voluntarily update the page in question.

I myself am not confident at updating the wiki, but would be glad to help gather information for others to add as they are able.

wooden dagger
#

speaking only for my own view, the best way by a significant margin to request a wiki page update is to just go ahead and do a "bad" wiki page update -- or if you really don't want to do that, to update the discussion page for that wiki page. if the information is on the wiki I am much more likely to be able to take the time to fix up the page versus needing to collate the information from another source. I understand not feeling confident, for sure, but I want to encourage everybody and say 99% of what is on the wiki is just plain text in a box 😃

plush totem
# umbral summit Request for discord channel for unofficial wiki page update requests. Somewhere ...

There is not going to be a discord channel for this, however even though this is an official wiki discussion, there are many contributors in this forum topic who can jump in and address things/answer questions/give direction. This is just a channel I specifically monitor very closely for overall Wiki discussion/questions/comments/concerns. Additionally, you can create a separate forum thread under help (not general, because help has the gswiki tag), and it could work just as well but may not be addressed from an "official" standpoint. It tends to be why I direct people to this channel when something wiki-related comes up in other channels. I'm less likely to see it if that happens, same with the rest of the wiki team.

umbral summit
plush totem
#

You're welcome!

pallid pine
serene lake
tardy iron
#

Great Auction of 2023??

The official forum thread is titled The Grand Auction of 5123, so perhaps that?

fossil plank
#

We were discussing this in the QC thread Wyrom posted, but it would be nice if the sold item scripts had their wiki information filled in. Some notable examples
https://gswiki.play.net/Energy_Weapon - almost blank
https://gswiki.play.net/Energy_Shield - tons of verbs missing
https://gswiki.play.net/Aganjira_and_Shadarl - should probably be broken into separate pages and items
https://gswiki.play.net/Valence_Armor - verbs
https://gswiki.play.net/Twin_Weapons - verbs and info
https://gswiki.play.net/Valence_Weapon - verbs
https://gswiki.play.net/Somnis - should probably match template and examples
There are others, but these are the quick ones I found.
I'd also really like to see the template information panel to include material difficulty as cross referencing this information can be tedious

frozen agate
#

Which packages are missing? I thought only Cathedral, Wavedancer, and Chapel were the only ones released. Eternal will be released at this year's EG.

As to the # of verbs, I think they're at least 35 for each package, with one coming in around 39. But from my recollection, the "35 wedding verbs" are referring to these sets.

frozen agate
#

Yeah the package comes with whatever verb set is aligned with the event. So Chapel if you buy at Duskruin, Cathedral if Rings of Lumnis, and Wavedancer if Rumor Woods.

When EG rolls back around, you have the option of adding the Eternal set by buying that verb set from the store.

#

Correct, it's just the set (35ish)

serene lake
#

Are you counting the duplicates for using the same verbs in different conditions?

frozen agate
#

No there are legit up to 39 verbs in one of the sets 😄

plush totem
#

Okay, so... regarding the Category:Wedding verbs - Verbs as a whole are a work in process.

#

This includes the categories containing the verbs.

#

It is a long process because there are a lot of verbs and there is also a lot of information that needs to be separated from the verbs so the verb pages can focus on the verbs alone. So please bear in mind that only up to E has been set up in this new way, and things are still very actively in transition. Additionally, please do not do things to the verb pages to shift them around while these page transitions are actively in progress as that tends to throw multiple thing on the backend off.

frozen agate
#

I think Xeraphina was talking about "all verb info pages on the wiki, up to the letter E" and not "the wedding verb sets" 😄

rigid pike
#

When you buy a marriage license, it comes with the 35-40 verbs as part of the package. There are currently three marriage verb sets, Cathedral, Wavedancer, and Chapel. If you are already bonded and don't want a full wedding, you can purchase just the additional verb sets instead of a wedding license associated with the verb set

#

But a wedding is a good value for all you get

#

There are a few I ran across recently that weren't in the list

#

I coded them and don't know how many there are

#

We plan on adding a fourth verb set this fall

upper portal
#

Given I don't know how to edit it at all, and if anyone wants to, for Titles as a Monk, Friar is available at 6 ranks of Minor Spiritual, and Disciple is available at 10 ranks of Minor Spiritual. I imagine it'd be the same for Cleric.

real quest
umbral summit
#

Is it at all possible, or maybe currently in the works, to update the Timeline of Elanthian History page to expand beyond 5103?
A lot of little things are hidden so deep within the storyline pages, its difficult to find.

plush totem
#

Thank you for the question. So I'm going to address the why it's like this as a start:

Up until very recently, the storylines were handled solely by players who do not have access to edit the official timeline. Because it's an official timeline, it's less of a live document for players to edit as compared to storyline pages.

Because it's an official document, it does require GMs to make what would be considered drastic changes (or just updates) to it, which again, up until very recently, was not on the radar. Official documents also require a level of vetting and QC.

That being said, your request has 💯 been seen and heard, but because it is an official document, even the wiki team cannot make those changes without speaking to the people who specifically oversee those sorts of things.

#

I'll be forwarding that request and information up to the people who would most likely be able to handle/ update this as needed.

fossil plank
#

Any chance this just got missed? #1061330227843833926 message

umbral summit
#

Thanks ❤.
Maybe some tweaks to towns/empire pages to include some details of events that occured. Specifically i can reference cross into shadows and the war that erupted in the Empire. I was trying to write up a backstory journey through the empire and discovered in 5115 it was not safe to wander aimlessly

plush totem
# fossil plank We were discussing this in the QC thread Wyrom posted, but it would be nice if t...

It did not but I don't have an answer for the script pages as that would be up to the script owner(s) or players who own the scripts. We can request it, but we can't make them do it. Regarding aganjira/shadarl, these are pages that can be player made with the information that has been provided and should not be reliant on GMs. I'm not sure what the ask is for somnis as I thought that was set up for the template as is.

pallid pine
plush totem
#

This is an active work in progress

#

There is a work in progress template at the top of it

pallid pine
#

I don't know if that means you plan to do what I'm suggesting or not

plush totem
#

It means I am currently working on that page specifically so please do not touch it while I am working on it

pallid pine
#

If you read what I stated more carefully, I was not suggesting editing the page you are working on.

plush totem
#

There are a couple reasons why I would ask that you wait until the Work-in-progress is removed.

  1. Because the list is actively being worked through and updated, the information you use on your breakdown page may end up being inaccurate. The page is currently a copy and paste from the Plat SK raffle list and is being adjusted down.

  2. We do not want to go 2 subpages deep. There is no issue with you creating the page with that breakdown, however the ask would be that you do it instead as: https://gswiki.play.net/Scroll/list_of_eligible_spells_-_breakdown

#

Does this make sense?

pallid pine
#

Mmm, sure.

plush totem
#

If you want to get started, I've gotten through 700s circle

#

Those are accurate as of this moment.

pallid pine
#

From the 200's to the 700's? (There's no 100's, wut!)

plush totem
#

That is actually a follow-up question I have to pose to the person who gave the wiki team the list.

#

But for now, this is as accurate as it's going to get.

pallid pine
#

I would suggest creating a "Not found on Scrolls" list to cross-reference.

I also have 100's of scrolls and access to posts selling 100s of scrolls, I feel like I could put together an accurate list of spells found on scrolls.

plush totem
#

The ask was only that we put the list that was presented to us on the wiki. As I said, I will need to follow-up with the person who provided the list about certain circles. Additionally a list for "not found on scrolls" is not on the view for the wiki team, however players are more than welcome to do this (Subpaged, /list of ineligible spells)

pallid pine
#

If I do that, I'm going to subpage both the breakdown and ineligible spells into a single page.

plush totem
#

That's entirely up to you how you would want to handle it at that point. As long as it isn't 2 subpages deep. 😄

pallid pine
#

What's wrong with 2 subpages deep?

plush totem
#

once we start getting into 2+ subpages deep, searches get obfuscated.

pallid pine
#

👍

plush totem
plush totem
#

@pallid pine The follow-up question has been posed regarding 100s circle, but for now, the list is "complete" for you to work off. Once I have confirmation on the information, I can follow-up with you with your project.

pallid pine
#

👍

pallid pine
fallen venture
#

[Announcement] An Unofficial Timeline Wiki Page
An "unofficial" timeline of official Elanthian history wiki page has been set up for players to add storylines and key recent history items.

Please read the forums post for details!

Discord Forums (for details/comments): https://discord.com/channels/226045346399256576/1085595766048968745
Wiki Announcement: https://gswiki.play.net/New_Unofficial_History_Timeline_Page
Unofficial Timeline (player-editable page): https://gswiki.play.net/Unofficial_History_Timeline_(Prime)

outer pivot
#

I put a request up on an official document page last year asking that it be moved and reorganized but it got no response in the last year. Curious if this can be done, or if someone can help me understand why it cannot be done. The request was to move the Tehir Primer document into the Sea of Fire document so that it more closely mirrors the organization of the original publication.
https://gswiki.play.net/Talk:The_Tehir_-_A_Primer

spark relic
#

Is there a preferred way to share a multi-paragraph/bullet list recap of a storyline event that is not a log? I know logs do the storyline - date - title (log) format, but this is a bit different. Asking due to Thandiwe mentioning that would be useful for the wiki.

plush totem
plush totem
plush totem
# outer pivot I put a request up on an official document page last year asking that it be move...

Okay, so on this point, the quick and easy answer, after it was brought up to the wiki team by moderators, was no, the page was not going to be moved and reorganized as requested.

Here is the why:
Based on how it was originally set up on the officials, the Primer is actually both a stand alone document and the first part to the overall document. This was also noted by GM Kaikala in 2017 with a note at the bottom of the primer page where it is stated:
Note: This document is both a stand-alone and the first part of the more comprehensive Life and Being in the Sea of Fire document.
When pulling up the more comprehensive and complete documentation it is clearly linked at the top of the page, which more closely mirrors the original set up from the officials as being a separate document and part of the larger document.

outer pivot
# plush totem Okay, so on this point, the quick and easy answer, after it was brought up to th...

I am aware of the note added (and i probably asked for it to be added). I still posit that keeping them separate does not emulate the original play.net publication's navigation, which firstly takes you to the primer document, then next navigates you to the geography page (by using the NEXT and BACK buttons on the bottom of every page). Thank you for letting me know of the decision nonetheless. No further clarification or discussion is necessary. I will strike my comment from the talk page so that we know it is resolved.

plush totem
# spark relic Is there a preferred way to share a multi-paragraph/bullet list recap of a story...

So one of the first things I'm going to respond to is to address the indirect part of this question: logs.

How logs are and will be handled moving forward is currently under review as part of an overall review on how storylines/vignettes are handled. These guidelines are being set up for both GMs and players alike as players tend to lean more into handling logs or more extensive storyline information versus the summaries being posted by GM Thandiwe, as an example.

To more directly answer this question as far as more in depth explanations to this: ... not really? This is also a point of discussion when considering storyline guidelines. Because that is something that is more by players for players, it would be considered less stringent and probably lean into: please make it easy to digest for other players. Naming standards are more what we would like to have in line (again, still working on finalizing), but what I would put forth for pagenaming convention on this would be to set it up as a subpage to the storyline redirect page.

For instance, if there was an expanded summary for last night that was not a log, the pagename set up would look something like [[Nations on the Brink/Second Interrogation Summary]]. I'd like to think that multiple players could contribute to something like this and offer differing viewpoints/perspective on the same page. Like viewpoint from elf room, viewpoint from salnim room, viewpoint from the hot seat/interrogation chair.

wooden dagger
#

would it be preferable to set up a separate summary subpage for each "event" in a storyline, as in your example? ("interrogation day 2" being an example of an event)

umbral summit
#

I see date format as the start a decent seperator to keep things chronological 03-14-2023:eventnamesuff her

plush totem
#

I think so. With as many events as have been occurring, I, personally, think it would be a good idea to separate that out, especially if we're considering "Meanwhile, in elf and Salnim room." It might make the page REALLY long. I'm not married to this, though, as, again, I think this sort of thing is best handled by the players as they are going to be the primary contributors to more in depth information.

I DO think linking it to the category page under a heading for "In-Depth Summaries" would be a great way to spotlight and organize it for other player review versus it just being in the storyline category.

crude egret
#

Is there an existing page or could we create a page on the wiki to support client install questions? Basically an FAQ to troubleshoot issues.

My working example that I would like to post someplace. I was unable to run Wizard FE on Windows 11. Two things were required:

  1. Copy gscbmp32.dll into the WIZARD folder.
  2. Edit your Registry / create a registry entry for \HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\WOW6432Node\Simutronics\WIZ32 make a string here with your WizardFE path
#

I did some extensive searching on the wiki, playershops, and Google searching in general and was unable to find this relatively simple solution to my problem.

pallid pine
#

You can also do a windows repair I believe. Which is a little less dangerous than having random people edit their registry. (I too, had an issue where windows was eating the wizard FE and not allowing install.)

crude egret
#

This was a brand new windows install. Fresh out of the box.

#

But another helpful suggestion we should capture on a wiki page to assist people with these issues! 🙂

plush totem
crude egret
#

Thanks! I'll attempt adding this over the upcoming weekend.

tardy iron
#

FYI, I updated the Hitpoints by Race template to include the max with +health stuff. Just letting you all know in case there's anything that needs corrected on it.

image.png
#

Only thing I'm uncertain on now is the line below it conflicts what players are saying

The maximum HP attainable from enhancive items, spells, or combat maneuver training is the racial maximum + 50. For example, Dark Elves can have up to 170 HP (120 racial max + 50 bonus) from enhancing their HP or Constitution.

Players say it should be racial max +CON bonus + 50 Unless the example was wrong and it should have been 140 racial max (120 base + CON bonus) with the +50 health = 190 for a dark elf.

pallid pine
#

Your enhanced CON Bonus + HP addition cannot be more than a total of 50. So if you have +20 Con Bonus, you only need 30 HP bonus.

I assumed we're talking about enhancives

still basin
#

That's on top of your racial CON bonus. So there's the 25 baseline (all unmodified bonuses at 100 stat), +/- your racial, +50

plush totem
#

sees something about mechanics

Xeraphina has left the chat

frozen agate
#

but, mechanics on wiki! See? Wiki!

plush totem
vale bloom
#

It looks like Google pulled down the Arkati Archive, so I replaced it for voln steps 24 and 25 with the internet archive version

umbral summit
#

#1085595766048968745 message

cursive grove
#

Is there any possibility of getting the lore charts updated?

plush totem
#

This has been asked and requested, however it is unlikely to be done at this time.

cursive grove
#

<sigh> can it just be removed until then? Just as an example, the paladin section links to spells taht don't exist anymore.

pallid pine
#

Does any other section have accurate information that would be lost if it were just deleted?

cursive grove
#

the individual pages seem to be correct, the benefit I would like to see of the lroe chart is to not have to try and jump between a ton of different pages to figure out what training possibilities are there for things.

wooden dagger
#

I have thought about working on the lore charts but I am not really convinced that every lore benefit on one unified page is a useful form of presentation anyway

plush totem
#

The page will not be removed because information may be inaccurate. We can post a disclaimer at the top of the page denoting that the lore chart is out of date, but we do not typically remove pages due to information being updated.

pallid pine
plush totem
#

Additionally, the scope of the task to update the lore chart is an immense one that would take a significant amount of time and energy to do. It is a passion project, and given that the lore chart itself has been primarily handled by players for players, it is something that should continue to be handled by players for players.

cursive grove
# pallid pine What page are you referring to specifically?

just as an example, trying to figure out break points on lore training for paladin spells. You can look in individual pages, so like 1601 lists all the DS benefits. But trying to keep track of all the different spells that benefit is rough. There's also some spells that have different benefits from different lores, so one place where you can see what spell has what lore and at what breakpoints is really helpful.

pallid pine
cursive grove
pallid pine
#

That lore chart is very old

wooden dagger
#

I'm glad this came up because I forgot to update the sl:b page for divergence group spells

plush totem
cursive grove
#

This may just be my own incompetance or that I play off a laptop, but the individual spell/lore pages are really hard to keep track of different break points or making decisions on when to cut from one lore to another. Having the one chart helps a ton in deciding where to cut over. I'm trying to avoid just going on the profession page and being like 'tell me what to train', I'd rather get into the weeds on my own

wooden dagger
#

there are class specific lore charts in a few of the channels which seem to cover the most likely use cases, so maybe we could put those on the wiki and it would cover a lot of the need. if you are going to be investing in some out-of-class lore to benefit an out-of-circle spell that would require more research effort

cursive grove
plush totem
#

It's a weird balance. For instance, one of my main tasks with the wiki is creating harmony with content and how it's presented. Some of that is formalizing guidelines, some of that is creating page formats that standardize how things look, some of that is liaising (this is a word, I swear. >.>). Not all GMs actually take part in editing the wiki, and a lot prefer not to. Wiki markup code can scare people. XD

umbral summit
#

Liaising my eyes betray me 🙃

plush totem
umbral summit
#

My take is the wiki is 90% player updated, and 10% official cant touch that pages

wooden dagger
#

announcements, shop lists, and official lore documents are the primary things that are GM written on the wiki I think

umbral summit
#

But GMs like order, so they occasionly do extra for us on the wiki

plush totem
umbral summit
crude egret
# wooden dagger I have thought about working on the lore charts but I am not really convinced th...

I think the most useful way to do this is by profession. To some degree this means you will have repeated information (e.g. Minor Spiritual for each profession that has access) but this allows someone playing a <pick your profession> to evaluate the relevant lore benefits that they want to train for. As a Paladin, for example, I don't really care about lore benefits for Sorcerers. I'm interested in making an informed decision for my Paladin training.

#

I put something together for Paladin's and I think... Rangers about a year back and posted it on the official forums (RIP). Maybe I'll attempt to recreate the Paladin lore breakdown on the wiki and if it isn't too painful to format I might continue on with the other professions as well. I had fun putting this together the first time around. Also, maybe if the current information is made available some other enterprising person may come along and make it look a bit nicer.

We have company for at least part of this weekend but I'll mark it as something to play around with the following weekend (assuming I even have enough access to create a page and can figure out how to get some basic table formatting going). I think this is something I'd have fun working on in between my wizard tear gathering hunts.

pallid pine
crude egret
#

I found what I did for Paladin's on the old officials and created a new page - https://gswiki.play.net/Lore_at_a_glance_-_Paladin I need to refresh the data but this is how I was thinking of laying it out. That way you can look through what the lore influences (as relevant to your profession), determine which benefits are important to you (I tend to put the ones I think are more interesting at the top), and then see what the break points are / how far you might want to train it.

#

Thanks Alastir - I will take a look sometime this weekend!

crude egret
#

So.... I've got a better layout / formatting idea on the Paladin page now and it sounds like Niadja is considering starting on an Empath page using the same basic layout and formatting idea. Maybe we can knock these out fairly quickly!

cursive grove
crude egret
#

Paladin's page is fit for public review. Starting on Wizard page next.

tardy iron
#

Probably would be helpful to have various Summation Template charts that we could just plug in the: seed, [rank|bonus], type:[skill|stat] and it spit out the appropriate summation chart with the proper names. Would make the page a lot easier to read and prettier IMO.

#

For SL:Blessings, is this 1 pt per 30 skill ranks or bonus:

    Provides an additional +1 to Damage Weighting added to base 10 points to Group Physical and Bolt attacks via Fervor (1618)
    One point for every 30 Skill: 6, 13, 20, 30, 50, 80, 110, etc.

It reads as bonus, but should likely be specific to not cause confusion for those that don't understand. So:

    Provides an additional +1 to Damage Weighting added to base 10 points to Group Physical and Bolt attacks via Fervor (1618)
    One point for every 30 Skill bonus obtainable at the following rank thresholds: 6, 13, 20, 30, 50, 80, 110, etc.
#

Since not everyone will understand the rank/bonus relationship/thresholds and better to be specific.

crude egret
#

Like it! I think there are a number of opportunities to wordsmith / clean it up. I can make updates from what is posted here or feel free to edit directly - it is public domain now! :p

#

I've gone back and forth on using tables for the ranks vs. just listing them as I have. The goals was to make this something you could (somewhat) easily peruse and plan (so 1 page-ish view) and from the examples I have seen on other pages the skill tables tend to make the pages overly lengthy / hard to peruse.

#

Speaking for how I use this myself - I'm less interested in what a specific value generates (e.g. I don't care that 50 ranks results in +5 vs. +4 vs. +6) so much as I want to know what the next threshold will be to increase the value. It let's me determine where I can allocate my remaining lore ranks to get an additional benefit.
If I am super interested in getting to +8 (or whatever) for some specific reason then I can link to the spell and figure it out there.

umbral summit
#

Wrong tag sorry. i updated the RoL run date year. It looks like it was updated with new dates, but missed the year.

granite yarrow
#

Thank you

pallid pine
# 
Hi, GS4ALASTIR. I have followed up with the wiki team on a few recent edits that you made related to third-party software documentation on the wiki. Specifically, I am referring to the subpages you created associated with both Script Bigshot documentation and the main Script Eloot article. The wiki policy for documenting Lich software is viewable on Help:Style#Lich_information. You will need to get staff approval before creating any new Lich script pages or subpages by contacting the GSWiki email address. (It is perfectly fine to continue to make edits to existing Lich script pages or subpages.) I will be taking the following steps:

I am reverting the recent edits that you made to the Script Bigshot page to restore the information that was removed from it and moved onto the different subpages. Those subpages are:
Script Bigshot/Profile/Resting/Hunting/Attacking/Commands/Monitoring/Misc tabs

I am adding a template on each of the Script Bigshot subpages noting that they are marked for deletion.
I will be deleting each of the Script Bigshot subpages a week from today.
I am adding a template onto the Script Eloot page noting that it is marked for deletion.
I will be deleting Script Eloot a week from today.
I am reverting the recent edits that you made to Template:Third-Party Software, which added a link and reference to the Script Eloot page.
Some of the information that you put onto the Script Bigshot subpages appears to be updated from how it was originally presented on the main article. I want to make sure that you have the opportunity to save or move that back on to the main approved script article before the subpages are permanently deleted. I also want to make sure that you have the same opportunity to save the information you wrote for the Script Eloot page. If you have any questions, please let me or another mod know, either via talk page or by asking on the official Discord server. Thanks for understanding. HOST-GSKEBECHET
# 
Help:Style#Lich_information states:

No new Lich "how to"/info articles or subarticles may be created without staff approval.

I didn't create any new lich articles or subarticles. I separated pieces of an existing article and updated them to be accurate.

#

I don't see why we need special permission to update information so it's accurate.

plush totem
pallid pine
#

Did you change the script section in February of 2020?

#

Before your Feb 2020 edit:

Scripts
Scripts can be added to GSWiki following these guidelines.

Naming
Script articles should be named with a descriptive name for the script's function or content followed by the string "(script)". For example, you might name a script for traveling around the Elven Nations "Elven Nations travel (script)" or a script for getting deeds in the city of Ta'Illistim "Ta'Illistim deeds (script)".

Formatting
The article should start with the script template as a header (see Template:Script for details) and be followed with the contents of the script file enclosed within the <pre> and </pre> HTML elements, which will preserve the formatting of the text (including white space and newlines.) Inclusion of the template will automatically add the article to Category:Scripts.

An example of how to format a script article:

<pre> # This is an example script.

if_1 goto %1% echo Syntax: .example {argument} exit

option1: echo This is option 1. exit

labelError: echo The option you entered was not valid. exit </pre>
plush totem
#

The fact of the matter remains that what is in place now is what is to be followed. If you would like to contest this, you can email [email protected].

tardy iron
# pallid pine Before your Feb 2020 edit: ``` Scripts Scripts can be added to GSWiki following ...

Technically there's a Lich section on the wiki that was added specifically via GS4-Kaikala on 2017-02-11, before then there was no mention of Lich. So it's been around for a very long time and even at the first mention of Lich it stated it's not allowed or approved
https://gswiki.play.net/index.php?title=Help%3AStyle&type=revision&diff=87071&oldid=86760

Lich Information

Third party program articles/information are not allowed on the Wiki, but there are some very specific exceptions for Lich-related material:

    No new Lich "how to"/info articles or subarticles may be created. Pre-existing Lich "how to"/info articles ported over from Krakiipedia may continue to be used and updated as necessary.
    BigShot strategy and room suggestions are relegated to the existing BigShot page; using either the main article or the BigShot talk page is acceptable for that information. Adding BigShot information or strategies to individual critter or other articles on the GSWiki is not permissible.
    Lich room numbers may be used in these specific types of articles: Festival/event pages.

Under the Articles section

pallid pine
#

I didn't add anything new.

So I didn't violate the whatever those are called.

It was existing information.

tardy iron
#

You technically did add something new by creating a subarticle (another name for a subpage). Which the wiki does call out as needing staff approval first.

pallid pine
tardy iron
#

Looks like changing the bigshot page to use collapsible sections would be the method to use as it doesn't require asking permission for new subpages/subarticles.

pallid pine
pallid pine
umbral summit
#

https://gswiki.play.net/Category:Storylines

Any chance for a section near the top linking current storylines? I know the 2023 link leads to those pages, but if we have multiple storylines later in the year with some finished it could be slightly difficult to locate the current events

plush totem
umbral summit
#

Temple of Steps wiki page is protected. I have to room Descriptions from the funeral I was hoping to put up somewhere, any suggestion on where and how? helps when you actually log in to the wiki

plush totem
real quest
#

I didn't do a log of the entire event, but I did do a page for the rooms and items for the memorial for Sayilla, if anyone wants to add or change anything. It might make for a better subpage for a log if someone puts one up.

https://gswiki.play.net/Solace_of_the_Seaborne

crude egret
coral sigil
shy marten
#

Looks great! (but even if you didn't get it all 100%, it's not a problem to fix it.) Thank you for putting that info on the wiki.

plush totem
#

Hey, y'all. I wanted to drop a note in here and let everyone know that I've released the storyline guidelines. Much of what is in place already has been codified officially, so very few changes were made.

I'd like to point out, however, that we've updated the guidelines to how storyline logs are handled. It's not a major difference except that it sets the log up as a subpage to the storyline redirect page. This ensures that the log page is 100% tied to the storyline, versus just being in the category.

Additionally, there are now general guidelines in place for player-run storylines that are catalogued to the wiki.

You can find the updates here: https://gswiki.play.net/Help:Storyline_guidelines , and if you have any questions, please feel free to ask.

plush totem
pallid pine
#

Does anyone respond to emails to the gswiki email address?

plush totem
#

A response is sent when a decision is made. Additionally, decisions may take time to be reached due to timing of discussions.

pallid pine
#

It would be nice if things weren't deleted from the wiki after emails are sent, read and are currently being discussed with specific comments saying it was discussed by the wiki team and approved for deletion without getting a reply to said email

plush totem
#

The moderator was instructed to do so based on:

  1. The original timeline presented when the pages were first published based on policy.
  2. The pages were published without prior approval by the wiki team, therefore they violated policy in their present form.
  3. Appeal does not guarantee approval. Appeal simply means we will review the request and respond accordingly with the decision. Similar to appealing a court's decision, the decision remains in place until a time in the future when it may be reviewed and a decision may be granted.
  4. Leaving the pages in place during the appeal process gives other contributors the impression that this sort of thing is allowed, especially given the communication provided by the moderator, which is contradictive to the way the process is in place.
pallid pine
#

Sure. So if it gets approved you can undo the deletion, right?

plush totem
#

No.

pallid pine
#

So maybe we shouldn't delete things that are being appealed.

plush totem
#

Please see point #3

pallid pine
#

The wiki isn't court.

And if it's approved it means all that work has to be redone. Because as you stated you can't undo a deletion.

If you delay the deletion by however long you're going to take to reply it means someone's time isn't wasted.

plush totem
#

The point is that the pages were a clear violation of wiki policy and the decision to remove the pages remains in effect due to policy violation. If the process has been followed properly before the pages were published, this would not be a problem. It was not. The decision remains in place until the wiki team is able to convene, review the request, and render a decision.

pallid pine
#

Who do I contact to appeal wiki policy. Just in general, not for this specific appeal of these additions.

plush totem
raven olive
#

Would be nice for future instances when this happens, that if you all decide to delete that information that someone took the time to input onto the wiki that you all tell them and send them the information back so the work wasn't all a waste of time. That they'll still have it. Deleting without a conversation feels just crappy to me. Its a pita to work with the wiki as it is and having the material you took the time to work on deleted really sucks.

coral sigil
#

Don't want this to be come off as rude, but for the item template pages I added I did them in notepad++ and saved copies as I went. In general I tend to do a copy in notepad for the wiki and then paste it.
I'm fairly redundant when it comes to information though and generally always ensure I have a copy of my work.

wooden dagger
#

there was, actually, a week of warning before the deletion

raven olive
#

Ah, good to know thanks Tikba. Didn't know the ins and outs on that. Just been following this conversation.

fossil plank
wooden dagger
#

I think arguably that page should be mostly wiped and replaced with a note that it's deprecated. I would say to delete it entirely but it might have historical interest to some folks. maybe it can be moved to a page that more clearly indicates in the title that it's not current

fossil plank
#

I'm not sure wiki speak for what should be done- turned into a saved post or something, but this particular use case was searching for something like material difficulty which doesn't have, or I couldn't find, it's own page. It is contained inside the 925 page, but the top search is the old page. (its also weird inside the old page). Being inside just 925 and not other relevant player service pages is kinda its own thing

#

One could even suggest a player services article with all the relevant item and script modifiers, etc... and then having each player service spell contain those tables/links could be of value

wooden dagger
fossil plank
#

That's really nice. I guess I didn't see it with whatever search terms I was using

wooden dagger
#

I had a similar idea that really all the unified player service information should be on a singular page, because I also got tired of always going to the ensorcell page because I knew the tables were there. I will take a look at deprecating the old enchant page more obviously later today

tardy iron
#

There's also https://gswiki.play.net/RESOURCE_(verb) that link to each profession's service page that exists which I think most that need the material difficulty have included inline on their individual service page

fossil plank
#

understand. What I'm saying is that if you search for something like "item difficulty" the wrong 925 page comes up as the top two results

image.png
wooden dagger
#

it looks like somebody has already taken on the job of taking all the links to the old 925 page out haha

tardy iron
#

I just added the big splashy header to the saved posts that the old 925 page has.

tardy iron
wooden dagger
#

oh yeah, I remember looking at those old wizard potion alchemy pages and thinking this was too wrong for me to fix because I don't actually understand how or if those recipes still work now. need somebody with a lot of wizard knowledge to clarify what those pages should now say

pallid pine
#

We have an entire gswiki team, maybe they could do that in between deleting pages and enforcing outdated rules

plush totem
#

Re: Spell pages/deprecated info. In my personal opinion, what I would like to see with pages like the 925 one is that the old spell page gets moved to a subpage of the new spell retaining the "current" old information and tagged as deprecated. That's a personal style preference, and not like official guidance as it hasn't been 100% discussed on how to handle.

#

I'm not home right now so I can't get further into detail, though.

plush totem
#

We try to limit page deletions as much a possible when it comes to deprecated information because of wanting to retain that historical information

wooden dagger
reef flame
#

Whoever "MEDDEL" is on the wiki - I love that you added the incremental difficulties to the 925/Enchant page. I do want to run one thing by you though: I think maybe the formula is TRUNC not ROUND at the end? For example, when I look for a 5x item I find they have 58 difficulty, not 59, which would imply a truncation.

green summit
#

I think it's truncate as well. I made a table a while back from my spreadsheet which matches up with that. Shamelessly stole the layout from some other wiki page. Posting it incase Meddel likes the layout a little more.
https://gswiki.play.net/User:ARCHYVER/enchant_penalty_table

The title of my chart is terrible though, ignore that.

real quest
#

I'd like to have something considered.

#

We have two places to reverse look up verbs that I can find. One of them from Sylvanfair, one of them from Lady Penstar. It appears to me that the Sylvanfair one is more complete as is when compared to Lady Penstar. But the one from Lady Penstar is the one found at Reverse Verb List. We have been told not to change the Sylvanfair one, but as I mentioned it's more complete.

#

I'd like to know if we can open discussion on swapping that decision.

#

I acknowledge that the layout isn't exactly the same

#

My point is, one is apparently already more filled out, but we've been told not to add to it

#

But the other one is also not being added to, so it seems like it makes more sense to update the one that is already more complete.

plush totem
#

That decision will not be reversed at this time as it appears that the Sylvanfair verb list was uploaded from a webpage outside of the wiki. It is unclear at this time if that list was uploaded to the wiki with permission from the original site hoster, and it was locked down in 2016 which is why you cannot fill it out. In fact, it looks like both had been pulled from external sites/web archives, some prior to Simu taking it over.

#

Please continue to use the Reverse verb list, as that one will not be locked down, and someone from House Sylvanfair will need to weigh in on their list.

real quest
#

I know they both came from elsewhere. Can neither be updated?

plush totem
#

The Sylvanfair one is specifically locked down to further edits and has been since 2016

real quest
#

I helped make the Sylvanfair one myself. Wexna created it and she is long gone. Alternatively, can a new one be created if one were so inclined? One that is all-inclusive?

plush totem
#

The wiki team will also need to discuss the merits of having both on the wiki as it seems entirely redundant.

#

That may be something that is reviewed once the verb pages are all updated and complete.

#

It is not a priority at this time.

real quest
#

I understand the reasoning behind not updating them, but it seems to me that that would seem to apply to both. I was searching for a reverse item today just by doing a wiki search and it didn't work well. I ended up finding it at the Sylvanfair list (a daydream verb)

wooden dagger
#

the "reverse verb list" page is not locked for editing, right, it's just that nobody is currently updating it

plush totem
#

That is not something that the wiki team would be doing as it is an extraneous page when considered. If players wish to update it and keep it updated, that is up to them.

real quest
#

That was my implication when I asked if a new one could be created if someone were so inclined. (I was volunteering).

plush totem
#

I would suggest utilizing the page that is already currently made and available to be edited. Please do not make an additional page that would replicate the information that is on both of them, because we would then have 3 pages with redundant information, as opposed to just 2.

lethal prairie
#

Is there an easy way to find out who created a wiki page (so I might bother them with a formatting question)? 😬

wooden dagger
#

You can see their username in the page edit history

lethal prairie
#

I found that, but then how do I figure who that is on here?

plush totem
#

You don't as that is a privacy issue, unless they out themselves here. You either use their user talk page or the talk page of the page in question on the wiki to communicate with them.

lethal prairie
#

Ok thank you!!

#

I will figure out these talk pages. I’m trying to wiki learn! Thanks for the help guys.

frozen agate
fossil plank
#

Wiki talk pages are a terrible method of communicating with wiki editors. Especially when items are (incorrectly) marked for deletion. When these items are tied to email address, why would you post something on a page for a week without a mechanism to notify the user that information is there? Particularly when these are tied to our accounts so you know how to contact the person.
Also, how in the world am I supposed to respond to a message posted?

pallid pine
#

In 2 days, it will be 30 days since I have emailed the gswiki email address. Guess I need to follow up with [email protected].

fossil plank
#

I really don't understand this

plush totem
# fossil plank Wiki talk pages are a terrible method of communicating with wiki editors. Especi...

  1. The moderators are doing as they are expected and directed to do and can only communicate via TALK pages.

  2. You respond to the TALK page messages in the same way that you edit a page and sign it with ~~~~.

  3. The wiki policy and style guide outline what lich pages are allowed due to being grandfathered in or approval being granted. If you wish to ask for these pages to be on the wiki, you may do so by contacting [email protected], however there is currently no timeline for review and permission to be granted.

On that same note, you can appeal the decision for page removal through the same email address, but again no timeline.

Additionally, because newly created lich pages without permission being granted violate policy, they will be removed in the timeframe offered, ie 7 days. It is recommended you save the that information to a notepad file during this time should the wiki team grant permission for these pages to exist on the wiki.

fossil plank
#

Who on the wiki team did he coordinate with?

plush totem
#

I'm not sure that matters in this case, as I think the better question is, who on the wiki team granted permission for those pages to exist?

fossil plank
#

That would be SGM Tivvy

#

so I think it does matter when "I have confirmed with the wiki team that permission was not given in advance of these articles being created who they coordinated with

plush totem
#

It is currently being discussed. Thank you.

fossil plank
#

wow...

#

I'm not sure I understand how any of this is serving the community. Isn't that the point of the wiki? To provide an informational resource for community members? I certainly don't spend my time documenting stuff for myself.
How is any of this making GS a better place?

pallid pine
reef flame
#

Thanks for explaining the policy Xeraphina - I better understand the rules as they exist now.

Feedback: I think there should probably be some lenience for the creation of Lich pages to help users via documentation - within certain guidelines to maintain the desired "separation of lich and state" (which I appreciate as a goal from Simu's end).

pallid pine
#

I'd like to see more transparency. Who is the wiki team?

shy marten
#

My apologies for the mixup, but in all fairness, you asked over a year ago (and in the middle of Duskruin) for permission to make these pages and didn't do so until recently so it had completely slipped my mind that I'd approved it when it came up again. I'll speak with the wiki team about restoring the invdb and foreach pages since those were the two that were approved.

A little background as to why we handle Lich the way we do on the GS Wiki:

With Lich and its scripts being third-party software, when it's on the official wiki, it muddies the waters for some people as to whether or not Simu is responsible for those things. In the past, we've gotten tons of complaints and demands that we fix it when Lnet went down, we regularly get asked to handle problems that occur solely on LNet, and other problems arise because some players expect us to be responsible for issues that are entirely out of our hands. I myself have spent hours dealing with issues like this, in multiple incidents. It is not uncommon. Having thoroughly detailed information about Lich on the official wiki can be very confusing for a lot of people as to where responsibility for it lies and that's something we try to avoid beyond allowing the pages that were grandfathered in previously. You're more than welcome to document Lich and its scripts more thoroughly outside the wiki and then link to those sites as an additional resource on the bottom of the existing Lich page.

wooden dagger
#

Thanks for the clarity! I am glad that invdb and foreach pages were approved

reef flame
#

Fair but I think those concerns could be resolved and this could actually be used as a solution.

The confusion that exists will likely never go away but it is perhaps possible that the overall confusion on this topic could be mitigated by:

  1. Allowing for ***more ***Lich documentation to help users easily resolve issues on their own
  2. Labeling all Lich pages with a clear banner at the top indicating that Lich is a 3rd party, unsupported software

Users would then have less issues they couldn't resolve on their own, and every time they visited a Lich page, they'd be reminded that it is not Simu software.

fossil plank
#

Lnet makes sense. That's why we've unbundled it with the lich install specifically to address that concern. The dual named channels there are a mistake and a cause of a lot of confusion.
Depending on time of day, lich is routinely used by greater than 90% of the GS population. I'm not sure documenting major facets and components on an outside source and further fragmenting information is really the best answer. Since the #scripting exists, there doesn't seem to be much confusion outside of lnet on Simu or non-simu ownership of lich.
I maintain that for major components or scripts that have thousands of users, documenting them and their usage is a net positive for the community.
I think any sort of increased banner usage or further ways to highlight the third party nature is entirely appropriate and I'd be happy to work with whatever team to implement something along those lines.

wooden dagger
#

Would agree that a banner that says “this page documents third party software that is not officially supported by simu” or something like that makes a lot of sense

reef flame
#

More Lich on the wiki could muddy the waters, but if done right, it probably does the exact opposite and is an opportunity.

pallid pine
wooden dagger
#

I'm not arguing whether lich is a good thing, just whether we could get more clarity and help make everybody's life easier 😄

pallid pine
fossil plank
#

My goal here is to help the community. It appears that the #scripting channel on discord is one of the most active here. No small portion of that is people asking for help and assistance with commonly asked questions of instruction, syntax, implimentation and usage. This creates a lot of overhead and time spent by players to support other players. That is the impetus for documenting common usage scenarios for the most popular scripts the ecosystem maintains.
That is why I find it particularly perplexing when efforts are made to correct outdated or non-functioning scripts or provide screen shots and instructions for the most commonly used scripts are shot down.

I certainly understand requesting a review and threshold, but deleting the ;ebounty page as noted above that has been active for like 6 months serves what purpose for the community? Have there been any GS assists related to that script?
I'm not asking to document and proper ;lnet. Most of the current lich team would prefer that component to die, but the reigns here really need to be reevaluated on some of the other aspects.

I am asking not to increase the workload on players to support things that we already spend time creating and further fragmenting by pushing us to document in yet another resource. I'm sure there's a way to address other concerns with any third party nature, but we are trying to help the community here and from where I sit, I struggle to understand how the pages you have and will remove provide any harm to Simu.

plush totem
#

I realize the points you are attempting to make, however as it stands in this current moment, the policy in place is there for a reason and will be enforced as it is meant to be. This includes page removals if they violate the policy currently in place.

The wiki team has read your statements and may review, however there is no timeline for that review. As such, the page remains in violation of the current policy and will be removed in the timeline issued. As stated before, it is recommended that you save that work to a notepad file so it is not lost.

To temper expectations, there is no guarantee there will be a reversal of the decision or change in policy, and we will adhere to the current policy as it is stated regarding lich pages. Tivvy has already stated the why, and she has clarified which pages specifically were granted permission to be published to the wiki. ;ebounty was not amongst those pages, and while it has been in place for the stated time, that was due to an oversight. The length of time for its presence does not supersede the policy, nor does it grant it special clemency to exist.

fossil plank
#

What I asked for and approved, in addition to those creation pages, was As a similar note and mentioned a bit back in discord, I'm planning on rearranging some of the lich related pages and cleaning already existing information. They are a bit of a mess.
Which was also covering the work for ;ebounty for the Discord reference there.
I realize I wasn't being 100% explicit and not trying to take advantage of anyone or anything, but in my head, that was the permission the page was created under.

plush totem
#

Additionally, I would suggest emailing your request to [email protected] as that goes to the entire wiki team and may be reviewed and discussed. Again, there is no timeline for this review and discussion, however it is more likely to be seen for the stated purpose than posting in this forum channel. Policy things such as this really should be emailed above the forum.

fossil plank
#

My request was mailed to the GS4-wiki team.

plush totem
#

was it emailed to that email specifically?

fossil plank
#

It most certainly was

plush totem
#

Then we will follow-up on that email. I would ask that from this point forward we move the discussions to the email stated, as policy discussions should be done through that versus discord.

fossil plank
#

Maybe I'm confused, are you talking about the previous request or the current discussion? I have not mailed anything on the current topic, but I did respond to Tivvy last week saying that I was just getting around to starting on this work.

As Alastir noted, he sent a request in a month ago. I think it's a bit disingenious to request something that affects the community taken away from their eyes when you also say "there is no timeline for review and discussion". That reads as a way to shut down any commentary on your policies and no path to resolution for the player

plush totem
#

We have the emails, we discuss. It is unproductive to have repetitive conversations occurring in the forum on a daily, weekly, monthly basis as things get reviewed, discussed, analyzed, and decided upon. It creates frustration on both ends of the spectrum as we do not have answers to give when they are being demanded.

I state there is no timeline because that is a fact. It is stated in such a way because if a timeline is offered, then expectations are set to that timeline and if something were to happen where the timeline is not adhered to, additional issues occur as a result. Offering no timeline is to politely state "Please have patience as these take time and will not always be decided in a timeline you think it should."

Additionally, having it within an email creates a better paper trail than having it in the forum as it can and will get lost in the shuffle, which cycles back to my first paragraph. Rehashing the discussion results in frustration on both ends of the spectrum.

fossil plank
#

That paper trail didn't seem to do much to stop the other two, already approved pages from being marked for deletion.

No one is demanding, but you are setting an arbitrary timeline by subjecting things to deletion. That page has existed for 5 months and the world didn't end. You could easilyi let it sit until these no-timetable discussions occur. You are the one exerting a schedule based pressure here.

From where I sit, I followed the rules and your process. In retrospect, I should have been more clear about ;ebounty page, but I created it thinking that I had followed the process outlined. The entire, ongoing, project has been a tremendous amount of work, through the entire lifecycle including documentation. It continues to be a large amount of work via support as well. Now, something asked for in Feb and created in Nov 22 is being deleted, not because it caused any issue but some arbitary timeline.
I really can not express how frustated and angry this makes me.

frozen agate
#

Not sure why you guys aren’t just setting up your own wiki or doc site for Lich. Just point people to it and be done with it.

raven olive
#

Going to have to agree with Erek, since there is this continued push back or silence on the part of Simu. What I mean by that is we aren't seeing a genuine two way conversation on the part of Simu. Either silence or what often feels adversarial. Would just be easier to do as Erek posted in my opinion. I know as a new convert to starting to use Lich, I'd love to see more helpful documentation on the wiki and FAQ's etc. Lich can be a bit overwhelming when a new sold my soul to it user.

still basin
# frozen agate Not sure why you guys aren’t just setting up your own wiki or doc site for Lich....

I'm not sure that yet another separate resource to try to guide players to is going to benefit anyone. Information is already spread way too thin. The wiki should be the source for GS truths, even when it comes to third party tools. If the idea is that the EO team should expend even more time and resources to support the community because of some overbearing policies, rather than use the tools already in place for precisely this purpose - then I'd have to strongly agree with Rinualdo's assertion that the policies are what need review. The GS team doesn't have the capacity to maintain the entire wiki, that's why wikis are community driven. Guidelines are good, but tyrannical application of rules at the expense of knowledge sharing is rather absurd.

frozen agate
pallid pine
#

Going back to what Tivvy stated as to why they handle Lich the way they do:

  1. When it's on the official wiki, it muddies the water.
  • Okay, it's already on the wiki, so the water has been muddied.
  1. In the past, we've gotten tons of complaints
  • Okay, let us actually provide more and better information to helpfully clear some of that up. As Rinualdo pointed out, a lot of us wish lnet were dead, but it's not and the lnet information on the wiki could be more clear.
  1. Having thoroughly detailed information about Lich on the official wiki can be very confusing
  • That could be cleared up with banners across all lich-related wiki pages, and a revamping of the actual pages to provide more clarity.

Maybe part of the issues you're having is because of the limitations you've created towards clarifying the content.

Let me remind you, that these scripts are very beneficial to you. Would Duskruin and Rings of Lumnis and all the other events be nearly as successful without their associated scripts?
Rings of lumnis scripts have 700+ downloads.
Duskruin scripts have more than 2000+ downloads.

outer pivot
#

A lich banner feels like a pretty good solution, especially in light of the 'creative works' template/banner for player written content.

lime lion
#

I feel like we've already been through the point in GS history where we had multiple sources of information, which didn't work.

I guess I didn't realize we were actively deleting pages, which is a monumental step back in general.

#

It does feel like the work done to maintain the infrastructure that, let be completely honest, is integral for the success of pay events is being completely disrespected.

mighty otter
#

I agree with Naamit, we've already let the horse out of the barn with putting lich-specific pages on the wiki. A banner that says "This is Lich information, and not part of Simu/GS" would clarify to the reader that it's 3rd party and included as a service to the players.

raven olive
#

I don't think most of us pushing back are arguing against the point/fact that the horse is out of the barn. Simu doesn't apparently agree though, which is why I agree with Erek's point. Instead of the constant push back, just put up an informative site/blog/wiki what ever. I understand Simu's stance even I don't agree with it and I personally feel it's a waste of energy debating with them about it any further. I know I'd personally appreciate a more detailed break down of how Lich works and for finding things I don't quite grok yet as someone dabbling in Lich a bit.

lime lion
#

I think the general feeling is more "Why would I bother working on a product to support the game when the game can't even be bothered to provide space on the wiki at near 0 effort and deletes information and guides already created" than "there is no other way to disseminate the information"

pallid pine
#

I also think it's a bit disingenuous to say this is "Simus" stance. For all we know this is one person clinging to No. When an APM has approved additional lich pages. I'd rather use logic to point out the flaws in the No stance so we can have one place that provides information to players, by players.

raven olive
lime lion
#

That speaks more to a severe fault in the appeal system and rules process than it does anything else imo. I wasnt even effected by this but I am genuinely bothered by how it all went down

vestal wagon
#

Hi, I hope this is the right place.

I noticed a lot of NPC pages got updated to include storylines which is cool, but a lot of these NPCs have existed and exist outside of those storylines, just within the realm of different towns. Is maybe there a more static way to acknowledge that?

plush totem
#

That is actually something I would like to have updated but the templates (there are more than one being utilized) that are currently in use and available don't account for that, or don't account for it properly. It's on my list to create a new template that better accounts for these things, as well as merging the myriad templates used for NPCs, but that takes time and is a lower priority due to other things and/or issues that creep up and take up more urgency.

The quick and dirty way to add it back in is to add the category at the bottom of the page that would be something like [[Category:(Town) NPCs)]]

vestal wagon
#

Ok! That seems like an easy update/solution. Thank you.

plush totem
#

You're welcome!

pallid pine
#

Wiki things ...

fossil plank
#

wow.gif

pallid pine
#

Looks like they were trying to impersonate a GM as well.

kind tinsel
#

pretty sure that's not just banned from the wiki grade...

rigid pike
#

Thank you for alerting us, we are looking into it.

pallid pine
#

Thanks for taking care of the wiki issues. Appreciate you.

shy marten
#

Hey all,

Just a head's up that we've heard the comments and are having some discussions about the current wiki policy in regard to a few topics that have come up recently, including the requested Lich page additions. I don't have a final announcement ready to go yet, but you'll be hearing from us soon about it. I just didn't want you to think you were forgotten.

lethal prairie
#

Anyone free to do a wiki thing? I just need a second row added to a verb table for when the item has a bug inserted.

fossil plank
#

ty Tivvy

lethal prairie
#

Alright, I might wing it. Please don’t hurt me if I break things.

shy marten
#

I fully encourage said winging.

lime lion
#

On the other side of the spectrum, I support whinging

rigid pike
#

I frequently do both when I work on the wiki

lethal prairie
#

This is oddly comforting.

umbral summit
#

Show changes is a wonderful tool
I spent the last few days testing previews for a page, while saving the changes in word so I dont replace pages

lethal prairie
#

Is this a hint? 😂 (I am doing a lot of saving)

umbral summit
#

No its just what I do, because I dont trust myself to do it right. I copied the page source to word, fiddled with things, went into edit, overwrote the source with the word doc text, then use show preview to see the changes. If I like them i save the word doc, then exit the page so it doesnt save the changes. Mostly this is because I am a relatively new returnee and do not wish to edit pages others have created without permission. Once I have the final page, I can update it all in one fell swoop

drifting walrus
#

I wing everything.

lethal prairie
lethal prairie
lime lion
#

pling it

lethal prairie
#

Consider it plung.

serene lake
#

Try hard, believe in yourself, and then just post in here and somebody will replace the { with a [ and everything will go back to normal.

mighty otter
#

That's the beautiful thing about the wiki, there's versioning, and wonderful people who are happy to (help you) fix things. I hope you got everything set up the way you wanted!

lime lion
#

Cunningham's Law will do the heavy lifting for those hard to edit wiki entries. Don't ask how I know

mighty otter
#

two cheers for cunningham's law!

umbral summit
#

Question: I was going to post a discord link on the House of the Rising Phoenix wiki page, but wanted to clarify the rules regarding it before hand, is there anything restricted with discord links on the wiki?

pallid pine
umbral summit
#

Are town pages editable? Specifically Icemule Trace and changing the storyline link from winter war -> watchfire pact under current storylines

plush totem
#

Yes.

umbral summit
#

I created a redirect from The Watchfire Pact to Category:The Watchfire Pact as I could not figure out how to make the link work without it

plush totem
plush totem
#

@uncut saffron this should add you, though it shouldn't be an issue for you to post here. Hopefully this will fix whatever issue you were having.

uncut saffron
#

I AM FOUND -thank you so much (timer. always forget the cooldown timer..)

plush totem
#

It's a short timer

pallid pine
# 
HOST-GSKEBECHET (talk | contribs) (Removed self-link. Self-linking to the same article in its own text should be avoided.

Why

tardy iron
#

What would be the point? Like why is there a need to for instance, link every reference of Alastir on the Alastir (prime) page to link to the same page you're already on? It doesn't make any since as you're already on the page.

kind tinsel
#

if you intend to embed a section into another page is about the only reason

#

so like if there's a link on a spell page in the opening section that leads to details on that spell, which gets rolled into other pages, it makes sense

plush totem
#

Additionally, there are tags/code that can handle that like noinclude and includeonly

wind estuary
#

I wonder if someone might be willing, please, to update the wiki page(s) for firewheel? It seems like it might need two pages, one for firewheel as a material, and one as an ability flare?

#1102539327860383804 message

silver skiff
plush totem
#

The only thing I can say to answer this question is that the page was created prior to there being specific storyline guidelines in place (if you check the history, it was first published and last touched in 2022), and had not yet been properly updated to current guidelines, which will be the case for any older storylines at this time, since there was nothing in place for formatting. As the moderators get through these, they will be bringing all of them into current formatting expectations.

umbral summit
serene lake
#

The options tables messed up on your end?

#

You can try zooming out (CTRL+- or CTRL+Mousewheel Down). We could also convert the in-game display into a little table like the tone list. I set it up that way originally, but that was when there were like 20 options. 😆

umbral summit
#

Sorry, should have said mobile friendly. I went horizonal and it appeared better

spark relic
#

I think it's tied to the item's option sections. that's a direct copy & paste from the readout in game, which is why it's in the log markup sections. that's an issue with the item in game, too, having so many columns that a lot of the text doesn't appear easy to read in game.

#

most items use wordwrap, but this one is set up with a forced table appearance for the options. that works good... but only if your story window is large enough to accommodate. (mine isn't half the time, unfortunately, so it looks like a garbled mess unless I maximize everything which is a huge PITA.)

#

if the options are put into tables with wiki markup, that would resolve the issue for it being more mobile friendly when viewing that page. but that'd mean that anytime there's an update, the table would also have to be recreated. which is possible, but it's also a bit of work.

granite yarrow
#

Trust me. Everytime I add more it is brutal to reorder in the script.

spark relic
#

I believe you! that's not a criticism, just an acknowledgement that there are a lot of options 😹

umbral summit
#

I just realized I made a mistake in the title of a page during creation. Am I able to change that, or will I have to make a new page and mark the old for deletion?

lethal prairie
#

Not sure if this is the proper way to do it, but if you click on More it’ll give you the option to change the title which will copy everything over and set up the old page as a redirect.

umbral summit
#

I wanted to avoid a redirect as the name could have created issues with future page creation. I made a new page, marked the old for deletion and fixed the only link. Hopefully it passes muster.

lethal prairie
#

Sounds like a good plan to me.

spark relic
#

in the future, you could also move the page, then edit the old page (which is turned into a redirect in the process) with the {{delete}} template so it's marked for deletion. that's useful if you want to preserve a history of page edits on something, but it's less important if it's a pretty new page and you're the only editor.

umbral summit
#

Ahh yes, did read that bit. Thankfully it was only 25 minutes old or so and had no edits. Thanks for all the help folks

coral sigil
#

General commentary from me, but i think the goal post for the wiki is shifting a bit. For a game like the Gemstone 4 some type of informational resource is a necessity to not have to constantly rehash the same questions over and over.
My perception is a lot of focus has been placed on the rules and style of the wiki in recent years and not so much on filling in the blanks. Much of the blanks part still relies on players and much that information is hard for players to obtain or behind a paywall in the case of items/scripts or just hard to know for certain such as bestiary information.

I would ask the question, Is the wiki adding “value” to the game and is the focus on adding value? I would define value as information primarily. A lot of the wiki formatting is confusing and so are the rules and styles. Much of the time it feels driven by “I like” or “I prefer this” in the same manner i have preferences in how I present information in a spreadsheet.

With players still adding the vast majority of what i consider value it seems unfair to hold players accountable to rules that many find difficult to understand and that seem based on preferences to some extent. At the very least a gemstone 4 wiki editing guide for dummies should be a priority if this is the continued direction.

#

And this may be my own ignorance and i don’t want to dismiss anyone’s efforts but I just don’t understand the goals for the wiki and what staff is looking to achieve.

fossil plank
#

well said. I have similar thoughts on the subject.

lethal prairie
#

Information is valuable, but so is the ability to actually use it. I presume the formatting is for consistency and ease of use rather than someone saying “I like…”. I’m new to adding to the wiki, but I know from my experience in using it that consistent pages make finding info A LOT easier.

fossil plank
#

I think it's less about formatting and more about the general impression of gate keeping. It feels less like a collaboration tool and information location and more like a fiefdom where adherence to process and permission gets in the way of information dissemination.
I believe the wiki has lost several contributors who have expressed similar sentiment

lethal prairie
#

I haven’t experienced that personally, but again, I’m new. So far all I’ve heard from the community is “wing it and throw that info on there the best you can!”

crude egret
shy marten
#

The wiki is, and always has been, a community-led resource, just like other wikis. Staff have oversight over a style guide to keep things consistent, which is something you'll see across all wikis and we moderate pages to make sure they're in compliance. I understand how sometimes that can feel like a fiefdom, but really they're just a set of formatting and categorization guidelines to make things across the wiki easier for everyone to find. If there's something in the style guide that you disagree with, you're welcome to broach that topic here. We're always open to input and discussion when it comes to making the wiki a more user-friendly (and editor-friendly) resource for everyone.

That said, we've been looking at ways to affirm the community-led nature of the wiki and, as a result, we did recently discuss the existing guidelines regarding Lich-related content on the wiki. We understood the concerns about not wanting to further fragment the documentation and information many players use to play Gemstone. We will be shortly amending the policy listed on the wiki covering third-party software-related pages on the GSWiki.

Moving forward, third-party software content that is related to Gemstone (in this case, we're largely speaking of Lich) will be allowed on the GSWiki without prior approval from the staff wiki team, with a few caveats.

  1. All Lich-related articles require the use of the namespace "Lich:" to denote it is an article pertaining to the third-party software.

  2. All third-party software content pages must make use of a banner that will be created soon that states that it is a third-party application page and not maintained by Simu, and that Simu is not responsible for the accuracy of the information on them or liable for issues stemming from the use of the application on players' personal devices.

  3. GSWiki moderators will be moderating those pages for vulgarity, harassment, ToS, and policy violations as Simu sees fit, but will not monitor for content/accuracy. Policy violations include items like spamming the creation of multiple unnecessary pages/redirects and promotion of violations of game policy as listed in game via the POLICY verb.

  4. If violations are found for any of the items specifically listed in #3, the talk/discussion pages will be used to document the violation, and there will be a 7-day grace period to amend those violations. Failure to do so within the 7 days will result in the removal of the violating pages. Repeated violations on one or across multiple pages can result in potential punitive action for the editor(s), including revocation of editing privileges.

I'm hoping you all don't mind giving us a little time to get the banner template and policy put on the wiki before adding new Lich-related pages. It should be soon!

wooden dagger
#

I think this sounds like a great move!

sharp zealot
coral sigil
#

For the sake of clarity can staff please provide an example/mock-up page for the new 3rd party software content pages once ready to roll out?

plush totem
#

As staff does not handle those pages at all, no we can't.

#

The banner will be similar in style to how the official documentation banner appears.

#

The banner will also set up the category tag to ensure that the page gets categoried in the proper spot.

pallid pine
#

Wonderful

lime lion
fossil plank
#

Thank you Tivvy. This is a welcome change.
FWIF, my comments about fiefdom are less about a particular style guide, but more the tonal nature of how things should be and the general combativeness that can sometimes occur. And I'm not referring to third party software.

plush totem
fossil plank
#

For my part on the pages I'm interested in and maintain, I plan on keeping the existing template unless otherwise directed, with the addition of whatever banner is requested. I had previously planned on some lich proper clean up and reorg and will continue the existing template.
Is there a preference on what to do on outdated or unmaintained scripts or information? Is there a deprecation method or something that staff prefer us to do rather than just delete?

plush totem
#

There is a deprecated category/ template, but I'm leery of letting that be used for older script pages as it won't categorize it properly. The banner is a template in and off itself. The only thing I can suggest for those is to create a warning at the top of the page that it's no longer maintained.

fossil plank
#

I think there's a couple categories- like the Sloot page is valid but not maintained. The Psinet page is long, long defunct and will never return.
I don't have a preference but something would be nice

pallid pine
#

{{delete}}

mighty otter
#

"This is being kept for archival purposes" ?

fossil plank
#

ideally it would be in a place that doesn't show up in a search or like the article would be collapsed with both the 3rd party banner and a secondary banner/warning of why the information is not relevant or some such

wooden dagger
#

my first suggestion was honestly that the psinet page should just be deleted as well. I honestly don't feel like it carries an amazing amount of historical value to keep pages on scripts that are no longer in use or development -- it's not really the same as game features that were removed or changed. maybe a page that is specifically just "scripts that people don't use any more" with brief mentions would be sufficient

reef flame
#

or like move it to a renamed page Lich:Psinet becomes Lich:Psinet (deprecated)

That way you'd see the title in search and know it's an old page?

fossil plank
#

I think the area where it gets sticky are things like XXXs guide to lich scripts dated 2017

#

and those contain links to outdated info. Every few months I see someone new/returning and following a specific page for script info and then have to walk back the outdated info contained inside.
There is a delta between outdated and bad info, though- like those pointing to the lichproject page

coral sigil
#

In regard to history and lore, everything should be kept, but in terms of gameplay or mechanics Id delete it to avoid any chance of confusion.

#

Marie Kondo the wiki.

lime lion
#

Tell everyone you should be neat and clean even if we have kids and then change our minds once we have kids?

mighty otter
#

embrace what gives you joy.

lime lion
#

I made an update to Block the Elements, but I had to put the information in as a List instead of a table because it was breaking the template.

I have 0 idea how to make it a table and not break stuff, so if anyone wants to edit that to make it look right, I can do it properly in the future.

serene lake
#

Just noticed the Announcement: prename thing, big fan. 👍

plush totem
#

As far as "outdated" pages and information, I'm on the delete train, as well. It's 3rd party and since it's 3rd party, it feels like archiving it versus deletion is just maintaining pages that shouldn't exist anymore. You can see what pages link to the outdated page prior to deletion and redirect them where it goes to updated/current information, especially if the concern is that older pages are linking to scripts no longer in use.

fossil plank
#

https://gswiki.play.net/PsiNet
This thing does not exist. I would recommend deletion.
https://gswiki.play.net/Category:Third-Party_Software
Probably should be more inclusive than just Android and Psinet, which the https://gswiki.play.net/Android page probably isn't providing anything valuable.

https://gswiki.play.net/Lich:Script_Waggle has been replaced and updated by the script ;ewaggle. How would this be best handled? The information contained is all relevant with some find/replace, so in my head a note about the change from waggle -> ewaggle at the top and then rename or redirect the entire page makes sense

https://gswiki.play.net/Lich:Script_Narost is deprecated and replaced by xnarost. The commands are similar. Narost still functions on a much older version of lich but we prefer users to use the ;xnarost variant and that is what is bundled with current and future lich installations. Perhaps the same treatment as above?

https://gswiki.play.net/Lich:Script_Sloot is still functioning but no longer supported. It has been replaced by ;eloot, with a different configuration and screen shot. In my mind, it makes sense to keep this page as is and put a note/banner at the top denoting the change to eloot, and then when the eloot page gets recreated or reverted, linked there.

https://gswiki.play.net/Lich:Script_UberPlugins is a bit of a mess. These don't quite function, but have been forked and renamed about a dozen times into various and somewhat working iterations, but some of those are not supported either. If it was my wiki, I would remove the entire page and instead create a "common lich scripts" page, which would link to some of the larger scripts that have pages like ebounty and invdb, but also just have a list of the common question and answer without a need for a separate page.

The lich installation pages need some help and I'll try to condense and consolidate when I have time.

#

oh, and thank you Xeraphina. Hope your vacation was well. I throw the above out there to the wiki team and community to see if I am way off base with something before I take any action

fossil plank
#

For anyone who wants to wikify the gnomish steampunk things Q made

>
Gnorbitt removes a gleaming mahogany case from in his leather tote.
>
Gnorbitt distractedly says, "Case."
>
As Gnorbitt depresses the panther button on the side of his case, several large thuds can be heard from within it.  The case separates into several segments which then unfold into a mahogany parasol with a panther-shaped handle.
>
Gnorbitt distractedly says, "Parasol."
>
Gnorbitt gives the panther-shaped handle of his parasol a sharp twist.  The segments of his parasol separate and fold into a compact compact mahogany case.
>
As Gnorbitt depresses the panther button on the side of his case, several large thuds can be heard from within it.  The case separates into several segments which then unfold into a mahogany parasol with a panther-shaped handle.
>
Gnorbitt gives the panther-shaped handle of his parasol a sharp twist.  The segments of his parasol separate and fold into a compact compact mahogany case.
>
Gnorbitt distractedly says, "Case."
>
Gnorbitt put a gleaming mahogany case in his leather tote.
>
Gnorbitt removes a polished oak case from in his leather tote.
>
Gnorbitt distractedly says, "Case."
>
Queatus gives the panther button on his mahogany parasol a quick tap, which is followed by a ratcheting sound as the limbs of his parasol begin to rise and unfurl the leather canopy.
>
As Gnorbitt depresses the panther button on the side of his case, several large thuds can be heard from within it.  The case separates into several segments which then unfold into an oak cane with a panther-shaped handle.
>
Gnorbitt distractedly says, "Cane."
>
Gnorbitt gives the panther-shaped handle of his cane a sharp twist.  The segments of his cane separate and fold into a compact oak case.
>
Gnorbitt distractedly says, "Case."
>
Gnorbitt put a polished oak case in his leather tote.
>
Gnorbitt removes a polished copper collar from in his leather tote.
>
Gnorbitt distractedly says, "Collar."
>
Gnorbitt hangs a polished copper collar around his neck.
>
Gnorbitt presses a small button at the back of his copper collar, resulting in numerous gears beginning to articulate rods and plates to surround his head.  As the motion settles to a stop, his head is covered by the visage of a copper meerkat.
>
Gnorbitt distractedly says, "Mask."
>
Gnorbitt presses a small button at the back of his copper collar, resulting in numerous gears beginning to stow away the rods and plates surrounding his head.  With a final clank and whine of gears, the collar settles back into stillness.
>
Gnorbitt distractedly says, "Collar."
>
Gnorbitt removes a polished copper collar from his neck.
>
Gnorbitt put a polished copper collar in his leather tote.
>
Gnorbitt distractedly says, "Demonstration over."```
umbral summit
#

Added links section from Xerria wikipage to the Premium Unlocks page. Some items are not listed, or may be listed and have since been removed from unlocks.

If a more qualified wiki editor might be able to change the listed services to the link I would be grateful.

https://gswiki.play.net/Premium_Unlocks

granite yarrow
#

To whomsoever updated the wiki so that when you type SimuCon it redirects to 2023, thank you. I'd been trying to figure out how to do it and was going to come here tonight to ask.

granite yarrow
tardy iron
granite yarrow
#

heh

fossil plank
lime lion
#

I think you have to mark it...somehow

tardy iron
fossil plank
#

Thanks Tysong.

pine viper
fossil plank
#

Can someone help me understand the wiki and indexing/searching?
I created several wiki pages today as previously discussed. https://gswiki.play.net/Lich:Script_Eloot as one example.
If I type eloot into the wiki search box, I can not find it at all, but clearly the page exists. I'm also having trouble linking it. Previously linked lich pages appear to be functioning but I can not link to the new ones, or I am using incorrect syntax.

fossil plank
umbral summit
#

Its case sensitive and very unforgiving.~~~ Id probably rename to Lich:Scripts:Eloot~~~ <--dont do this

pine viper
# fossil plank What is the script name?

Gnomish Ingenuity is the name for the "suite" of scripts. I guess one is 'cases' (Gnomish Ingenuity Cases), and the other is 'collars' (Gnomish Ingenuity Collars). There are more planned.

fossil plank
#

I'm finding that inconsistent and very baffling. If someone was looking for information on a lich script, they have to follow some weird syntax, but for any other information in the wiki any word contained would function?

umbral summit
#

Oh, i didnt realize it did that.
Just searched eloot and 0 results

fossil plank
#

its not that its lower on the search list- it's not showing up at all. I'm also having trouble linking to those newly created pages
Compare searching ebounty (old) and eloot (new) and compare the results

wooden dagger
#

I am not sure why it is not showing up in search. The fact that the other lich pages do show up suggests it is not a lich specific thing. You should definitely be able to link to the pages though. Let me get back to the keyboard and I will figure out what the correct syntax is to link to them.

fossil plank
#

the only thing I can tell is that on the previous pages, there is a redirect
https://gswiki.play.net/Script_Ebounty to https://gswiki.play.net/Lich:Script_Ebounty, but unclear how that would impact indexing.

wooden dagger
#

Oh, actually I don’t have to go back. All of those links on that template have redirects set up to send the link to the category page, but not eloot since it is new. So you want the link to be [[Lich:Script Eloot]]. You could also make a redirect, although I probably would not.

fossil plank
#

Got the linking part

wooden dagger
#

I am not sure about the indexing. it does show up in autocomplete in the search box if you start with "Lich:", so it is not like hidden from the system.

fossil plank
#

One mystery solved at least

umbral summit
#

Im sure one of the wiki team will sweep through and fix it. They are usually pretty good about format fixes.

fossil plank
wooden dagger
#

I think for some pages I would do a full rename, like narost should just be renamed to xnarost since it is the same script but one works

spark relic
#

transclusion can help you accomplish that embedding goal

fossil plank
wooden dagger
#

Great minds!

fossil plank
spark relic
#

so to do that..

fossil plank
#

I did leave sloot and created a new eloot, since they function differently and I'm sure there's still a few people that desire the former functionality

spark relic
#

on https://gswiki.play.net/Lich:Script_Repository#Popular_Lich_Scripts, for that section, you'll edit it to include this markup immediately before the section you want to show:
<section begin=popularscripts />
then you end the section you want to show elsewhere with:
<section end=popularscripts />

and then on whatever page you want that area in between those markups to show up, you put in:
{{#section:Lich:Script Repository|popularscripts}}

(for this, I am using just the main Lich:Script Repository page, and I'm arbitrarily naming the transclusion section "popularscripts")

#

if there are components between section begin/section end that you do NOT want to include, you frame those lines with <noinclude>(whatever you don't want to show up imbedded)</noinclude>.

if there is a thing that you WANT to show up when imbedded elsewhere but NOT on the original page, you frame those lines with <includeonly>(whatever you want to show up imbedded but not on the main page)</includeonly>.

fossil plank
#

So do I create https://gswiki.play.net/Lich:Script_PopularScripts ?

spark relic
#

for an example, https://gswiki.play.net/Remove_Curse_(315) uses all of these markups.

https://gswiki.play.net/Platinum_Monthly_Raffles/Make_Your_Own_Spell_Knowledge_Item is a page that transcludes (imbeds) parts of the 315 page.

and to answer your question (thanks slowdown), with the way I described it, it'd still be on https://gswiki.play.net/Lich:Script_Repository, in the section that you had linked. you could put it on a new page. in doing so, if you put it onto a page named https://gswiki.play.net/Lich:Script_PopularScripts, then you'd have to change the transclusion (imbed) portion to:
{{#section:Lich:Script PopularScripts|popularscripts}}

the list exists on the page that has the section begin/end markups.

fossil plank
#

if someone wants to edit that list- does it matter where its done from? Working on understanding the relationship

plush totem
fossil plank
#

You have to create a redirect before a page can be indexed?

plush totem
plush totem
# fossil plank You have to create a redirect before a page can be indexed?

Redirects are automatically populated with page moves. If creating a new page, you'd need to setup a redirect set the fact is you're trying to get to it quickly without typing out the whole name. In this case, the redirect page would be named eloot, and the code for that page would be #REDIRECT [[whatever the full page name is]]

plush totem
fossil plank
#

I'm not very smart but I'm still very, very confused on why, without a redirect, absolutely none of the contents of a newely created page show up in any search resuts

plush totem
#

The search function is finicky

wooden dagger
#

I think Rin's specific question is "why is this page not appearing when I search for 'eloot'' and if a redirect would help address that

plush totem
#

And unless you type it fairly exactly, it won't come up the way you want

#

A redirect would address that

plush totem
spark relic
fossil plank
#

so if I add the word hasenpfeffer to a page, and that page does not have a redirect, no search results for hasenpfeffer will ever show up, but if I have a redirect on the page /food, the redirect now indexes all the contents of that page?

plush totem
#

Sorry, I'm answering from bed on my phone because a headache decided to attack me so I'm not bothering fixing any autocracy, either

spark relic
#

(not gonna lie, that's a great autocorrect error)

fossil plank
#

its not important- can be resolved later- I'm just confused.

plush totem
#

... specific

spark relic
#

Rinualdo, if it helps, I can walk you through the transclusion/imbed part in DMs instead of waiting on the thread slowdown (which is fortunately much better than most threads).

plush totem
#

There's also a bit about transclusion on the player wiki getting started guide

fossil plank
#

I appreciate it Shan. I need to step away from the wiki because it's frustrating me to the point of ineffectiveness, but if someone doesn't do the redirects and transclusion, I'll get to it later

plush totem
#

I don't know of that was linked already... Brevard phone

cursive grove
fossil plank
#

Take care Xeraphina, I can come back to this later. The info I wanted is still there and not going anywhere

spark relic
plush totem
fossil plank
#

I did, thank you

plush totem
#

👍

tardy iron
plush totem
#

The template is old and likely gel out of use because it wasn't updated with the correct category addition (was using an old category that didn't exist), which I fixed a few months ago.

tardy iron
#

I just updated the style page To use {{delete}} instead.

plush totem
#

👍there are other things that need updated in the style guide, but I'm dealing with updating sobering else that needs more immediate attention (except not right now... Brevard headache)

umbral summit
#

Autocorrect rules, and I will eat a slowdown for that

plush totem
#

When I feel better, I'm going to end up going back and fixing all of it so that it makes sense in proper context. Just not right now.

umbral summit
plush totem
umbral summit
#

Thanks, i knew I was missing that. Ill update the page in a bit to conform

plush totem
#

You're welcome and thanks for doing that.

umbral summit
#

Not 100% sure how to do it, but I will be trying to figure it out. I didnt make either original page so I probably have to look into it. Hope you feel better

#

Ok, I think I did it right, but its mostly blank as I search for more information and get some sleep.

fossil plank
#

Could some assist with some collapsible text help?
What I'd like to do is https://gswiki.play.net/Lich:Software/Installation on this page, just have the Windows section open and the Mac/ChromeBook/Fedora sections default collapsed. I'd also like the Changelog collapsed except the most current version info.
Alternative, if that is not the preferable wiki style, then split those pages into sub pages.

umbral summit
fossil plank
#

I tried playing with those and none worked the way I wanted or I was failing in the syntax department

umbral summit
#

Added a collapse format to the change log section. Im at work but that should help you out

outer pivot
#

Popped a question in the Giantman folder regarding wiki edits approved by Xeraphina to rename Giantmen as Kindred. I have no idea where this was announced and why it wasn't given time for players to offer feedback on the change. I am feeling blindsided and frustrated by this discovery.
#1057374328095772732 message

fallen venture
#

No one is trying to blindside anyone! And just as an FYI in case someone else reads this and doesn't follow the link for the discussion. We're looking into it, so please do not panic!

outer pivot
#

Just to close the loop for anyone else who isn't following the linked discussion, the change has been reverted. Thanks all!

plush totem
#

Hey, guys! I wanted to let you know... I have done a thing!

In order to make better use of GSWiki's semantic abilities, I've done some testing and tweaking and tinkering, and have updated the https://gswiki.play.net/Template:Verbinfo to account for "properties." Properties are basically "categories" for values in wiki pages, so this may help with certain searches that come up. If you'd like to see an example of what this may look like, see https://gswiki.play.net/Property:Verb_type, https://gswiki.play.net/Property:Has_demeanor_interactions or https://gswiki.play.net/Property:Has_racial_style.

I'll be going back through A-E verbs to make sure certain parameters fit with the updates as some do and some don't.

Along with this, I've created a form which may or may not be handy for players to work with, https://gswiki.play.net/Form:Verb. I don't have instructions for use, yet, but to summarize, it takes the template code and makes it into an easier to view, and potentially use, user interface. Mind you... this is only set up for the sidebar template as there are so many verbs and they do so many different things, that setting it up to do just one thing would be a disservice to the page as a whole. The good news is, though, once the form is used for the template, the page can be saved, and then gone back in to edit as normal. This form can be used to create new pages, or edit pages. Just note, if you end up using it to edit a page that already exists, pay attention to the PREVIEW page.

Thank you for your patience as I work through some of these kinks as we try to transition to this newer way of organizing things.

#

Also... discord markdown doesn't like doing hidden links, I don't care what the support page says.

#

I also want to apologize for anyone who has been stalking Recent Changes... because... this.

#

(This isn't replacing categories, just FYI, in case that question comes up).

coral sigil
#

https://gswiki.play.net/Category:The_Blood_that_Binds
So I created a page for the new platinum storyline and it got updated with a bunch of template stuff which is fine but it seems like a lot more work for what the intent was.

https://gswiki.play.net/A_Reflection_In_The_Water
Pretty much all of the previous wiki entries for platinum storylines just have a basic setup like this with dates and a summary.

What is the intent of in-depth summary? I suppose the in-depth part is throwing me off. Why not just label it "events"?

I also couldn't find a template on the template page for storylines.

plush totem
# coral sigil https://gswiki.play.net/Category:The_Blood_that_Binds So I created a page for th...

Hi. So, earlier this year (March), we released storyline guidelines (https://gswiki.play.net/Help:Storyline_guidelines) for page setup. Now, that's not to say that we expect that these pages will 100% be set up this way by those doing so, but this allows our moderators (and contributors) style guidelines to follow to ensure we have consistency across the board with pages such as these. These is no template page, as this is not something that would require a template that you just fill out, however the guidelines do explain what headers should be used. Again, consistency.

Older storylines will be updated to the new standards as the moderators get to them. As there is an enormous backlog of those, please understand it will take some time to complete. Other contributors are welcome to work on these, as well, for formatting, but otherwise, this is something the moderators will handle. More recent storyline pages have already started to follow these guidelines. Older ones will as time allows.

We did announce when they were released, as well, and it was pinned: #1061330227843833926 message

coral sigil
plush totem
#

You would add it in the same way you would add any link. In this case, it would be * [[The_Blood_that_Binds_-_2023-06-11_-_Searching_for_Thanela_Saxe_(log)|(Shortened Name of Log)]]

Also, formatting for storyline log pages have actually changed. Again, something a moderator can handle, but as a future reference, the page naming convention should be: Storyline redirect page name (storyline)/[Date] - [Title of Log, if applicable] (log) IE - logs are set up as subpage to the storyline redirect page as they can't be to the storyline category page (it breaks things). This ensures there is a clear tie to the storyline.

coral sigil
#

I can figure stuff out based on examples but otherwise its greek. I went off this example.

image.png
plush totem
#

This is what is correct for how to handle storyline logs.

coral sigil
#

[Storyline or Event Title, if applicable] - [Date] - [Title of Log, if applicable] (log)
(storyline)/[Date] - [Title of Log, if applicable] (log)

Is the only difference between the two just a / after the title?

#

Going forward would be this?
The_Blood_that_Binds/2023-06-11_-_Searching_for_Thanela_Saxe_(log)

plush totem
#

/ indicates it as a subpage. To clarify what i mean by directly tying it to the storyline, when you pull up the log, it looks like this at the top:

image.png
#

That smaller bit is a link back to the redirect page. So it ensures that it is 100% tied together.

plush totem
coral sigil
#

Ok, thank you for the help

plush totem
#

You're welcome!

umbral summit
#

One thing I am curious about is the NPCs and such in Platinum, that are not available in Prime, would it be possible to get a platinum specific banner template so it doesn't muddy the waters when people are exploring?

mighty otter
#

This would be very helpful!

plush totem
spark relic
#

for the most part, I think I've seen plat npcs usually included in the Platinum category, so in the meantime just glancing at the bottom of the page for what categories are present should give a head's up.

umbral summit
#

Since I am stalking, I have to applaud the new Verb stuff being added. Much, much appreciated

rigid pike
#

Xeraphina was tired of picking up after me

#

OH WELL I GUESS I NEED TO GO CODE MORE VERBS TO TEST THIS OUT

plush totem
#

🤣

sharp zealot
#

...the mental image the last few messages gave me is hilarious.

fallen venture
#

FYI, with vethinye, I've not made up this page yet: https://gswiki.play.net/Vethinye but it's free game if someone wants to. I just had some placeholder info there and haven't put into the metal format yet

sharp zealot
#

...I fixed the links to the Tourney Containers page in the Container Yourself shop tables. I hope I didn't mess anything else up.

plush totem
pallid pine
fossil plank
#

bad link/typo?

umbral summit
#

It was a typo. Yeah that. But i agree always leave a comment as to what and why you editted

rigid pike
#

We prep the script a month or more before we can create the page so I forget what I planned on naming the page...100% of the time so far

plush totem
#

Okay, I can see what caused the issue here.

rigid pike
#

But we will have to fix the typo in the script so next time the shop tool runs, it's correct

#

"But Vanah, all you have to do is follow established wiki page name format and it would be correct"😞

sharp zealot
#

Sorry! I fixed it and then went to pick up a pizza.
the link and the script title were...mostly reversed.

rigid pike
#

Someday I'll do it right

plush totem
pallid pine
#

One thing I noticed that triggers my OCD is the width is differentin this years version

plush totem
#

The width didn't change unless your screen size did.

pallid pine
#

Same size windows

image.png
plush totem
#

Well, part of it is because last year we were still in the process of tweaking things with the shops, so last year wasn't the ideal set up, and we were working through kinks. This year, the formatting has been finalized, it's just the analyze/links that are the issue.

plush totem
# plush totem Hey, guys! I wanted to let you know... I have done a thing! In order to make b...

Instructions for verb pages are now live on the the GSWiki: https://gswiki.play.net/Help:Verb_pages

PLEASE NOTE: There are a multitude of existing verb pages that require updating to these new guidelines. If using the verb form to update these pages, please either move the page to the updated naming standard prior to editing the page, or enter the current page name into the form to populate the current contents, then move the page when edits are complete. Doing otherwise will create a new page, causing information duplication, and the page history will not properly transfer over.

https://gswiki.play.net/Form:Verb has had some updates with instructions on how to handle use, and links to page examples.

At this time, players are welcome to work on updating these pages, if they wish. However, myself and our moderators will continue to work through them. If you intend to start working on these pages, please start at F as I'm still going back through A-E.

sharp zealot
#

Do you want me to fix any other similar tagging errors in the list?

plush totem
#

Please hold off as it is something that needs to be addressed on the backend.

sharp zealot
#

👍

umbral summit
#

Is this a good place to post any issues I find with the wiki pages for the RW 2023 shops? I noticed the Grand Stables is missing the Nightmare Steed info but has the reins listed.

Also the Lizard Vivarium pricing looks way off, and is missing info on one of the reins

plush totem
#

Okay, thank you.

granite yarrow
#

I will fix it shortly.

sharp zealot
#

The details in The Silken Lotus, Irita on the various unlocks don't list which thing the various certificates are for. The signage does, but the individual certificates just say they'll unlock the certificate to tier 2/3/4.

fallen venture
#

Okay. It's the shop's last run, and it's been that way the whole time, so it's not going to be a high priority for me to fix, but I'll make a note of it.

sharp zealot
#

No worries. I'm not entirely sure what should be considered an error and that just read weird.

fallen venture
#

yeah, it was my first shop with certs, I think, so....they probably needed a better read, lol

sharp zealot
#

the certs read fine now IG.
it just...doesn't match what's on the wiki

fallen venture
#

Ah, okay

#

well, I'm totally cool if you want to update the wiki to be right!

sharp zealot
#

👍

plush totem
#

It looks like the thing that we used may have only picked up the analyze, not the read on the item.

#

Which would likely be the case as most of the time the two match up (on unlock certs)

#

Please hold off on updating the shop as it is something that may need to be fixed on the backend

sharp zealot
#

That's what I figured.

granite yarrow
#

I am currently working on updating the issues on the wiki.

#

I will rerun the tool once I have investigated things.

sharp zealot
#

Okay. Thanks! I'm just going through making my shopping list, so I...uh. noticed a few things.

plush totem
# sharp zealot That's what I figured.

Thank you for understanding. As mentioned earlier, if we run into issues with the tool we're using, it's something we need to fix in code, or elsewhere. Ultimately, we're trying to avoid too many manual fixes moving forward to make everyone's life easier.

sharp zealot
#

Oh, no worries! After the note about the back end tool fix before, I figured I'd let you guys know here before doing anything and you could say whether or not a manual fix was okay.

pallid pine
#

Is the wiki for white alloy accurate with regard to material benefits

granite yarrow
#

Comparing the pages, it looks accurate to me.

umbral summit
rigid pike
#

That's a feature

#

So we don't spam the wiki with duplicate analyze info

#

We have the option of listing it the first occurrence only

granite yarrow
#

Not only that, but three is a link to the actual item.

plush totem
#

Hey, guys... I'm going to put a quick reminder here regarding character vignettes posted to the wiki by those who are not the account holders of the characters (this is noted here: https://gswiki.play.net/Help:Character_pages#Non-Account_Holder_Edits):


Character pages should only be added or edited by the account holder or an account which has been noted on the Talk/Discussion tab by the account holder. All changes made by accounts which are not listed on that page are subject to being reverted.```
This extends to character vignettes posted as subpages to character pages (which may or may not exist).  If you are not the account holder of the character whom the vignette is posted to, you need to specifically denote on the page's TALK page (discussion tab) that you were given express permission by the account holder to do so.
umbral summit
plush totem
#

If it is noted on a main character TALK page, it needs to additionally be noted on the vignette pages and should reference the original permission granted on the main character TALK page.

This is actually in place due primarily in part to reduce issues that may be caused by players who may have malicious intent with editing character pages, It's the same reason is generally a no no for people to edit the user pages of other contributors.

umbral summit
#

How does one "move" a page?
I updated FLINCH (verb), and now I cant remember how to move it to Verb:FLINCH

Found it

mighty otter
#

Can you explain for those in the cheap seats?

umbral summit
#

How to move? There is a little triangle next to the view history tab, click that it shows a drop down of move and refresh. Move will bring you to the "move page" page

mighty otter
#

Awesome, thank you!

tardy iron
fossil plank
plush totem
# fossil plank are templates something players can change or staff only? https://gswiki.play.n...

Templates are able to be updated by anyone, staff or players. Depending on the template, it's recommended to create a new one and test on your User page/subpages before pushing live as it can disrupt certain pages. However, in this case, you should be able to make the changes without issues.

Reviewing that particular template, though, I might end up removing non-square professions as it seems pointless for them to be on there if they can't use them (this is me thinking outloud, this isn't saying to do that).

fossil plank
#

ok, I won't make any changes but could use the addition if/when you work on it. Thanks

plush totem
#

The second paragraph was me thinking outloud about something I should conisider with the template. Sorry for the confusion.

fossil plank
#

oh I got it, was just being lazy 🙃

umbral summit
#

Im curious as to the design, ill take a look. Should be easy enough.

umbral summit
plush totem
#

Yes, but also... may want to just remove "ALL" as well, as that was meant to encompass "all" professions, which martial stances only work for squares, but otherwise, it looks good.

umbral summit
#

Ill remove the all and edit the page.

umbral summit
fossil plank
#

I consider this a team win!

fossil plank
#

it looks like a couple broken links on the RW page for scripts
lamb pet, kindred *, mount containers, Gifts of Atan (surita)
Also, the flypaper links go to the flypaper tattoo page, but have the description in the link as the name

granite yarrow
#

Lamb pet doesn't actually have a page yet

#

Neither do mount containers

#

When I get a second, I can look into the others.

#

But last I looked, Kindred Garb didn't have a page either.

spark relic
#

Kinded Garb does, I made it a couple days ago

(mostly because I kept forgetting what did what on my set)

fossil plank
#

the page link for aganjira goes to the material difficulty page

plush totem
#

Aganjira doesn't currently have a page of its own outside of the official documentation which is likely why that's the case.

fossil plank
#

I still recommended that aganjira and shadarl have their own, proper pages instead of the combined announcement page

plush totem
#

It was likely a redirect that someone made as a solution until a page is made

fossil plank
#

one goes to material, one goes to announcement. The announcement is a combined one.
I'm happy to fill out the proper templated page if you like

plush totem
#

These are pages that people are freely able to create from information provided and available.

#

Please do!

fossil plank
#

the redirects look weird on them.

fallen venture
#

I admit it's an awkward name, for sure

fossil plank
#

I should have said "in addition" and the link goes to the material page "instead of" the lore page

fallen venture
#

I'm just clarifying it isn't just an announcement/news item...it's the lore on it. And I didn't mean to @ you, sorry about that!

fossil plank
spark relic
#

I can make that redirect for you

#

(and made)

#

there's nothing linked to it presently on the wiki, but I can easily see something coming up, or someone trying to search for it to try to figure out what they're looking at. that should hopefully help in those situations.

umbral summit
#

I will take a look tomorrow if noone else does and format it to include some verb tables and such not. I was waiting until I acquired some to fully flesh out the pages. Anyone with info can feel free to DM it to me(analyze, show, verbtraps,etc)

plush totem
fossil plank
#

There's no analyze, show, etc that I can see

plush totem
#

Yeah, not a script, just a material.

umbral summit
#

Ahh right. Ok. I will look into those.
Probably going to go back to my verb work, which is hopefully being done correctly

fossil plank
#

both pages probably need a link to the original story page

pallid pine
#

Done

pallid pine
fallen venture
pallid pine
#

ty

umbral summit
#

Would it be possible to get these messages pinned?
#1061330227843833926 message
#1061330227843833926 message

rigid pike
rigid pike
#

YES good call, I need those

plush totem
#

I don't know why I didn't pin the verb one.

umbral summit
#

When working on verb pages, some verb info sections include my characters name, is it acceptable to replace the name with "<Player>"?

pallid pine
spark relic
#

I like XXX because it makes me laugh

wooden dagger
#

I like to also italicize the portion of the verb messaging that will change based on item name or location or whatever (when I remember)

rigid pike
#

I like it live forever and leave my character names in there

#

But one of my Dev characters is my first name and if I am too lazy to log in another character then yeah I either just change it to like, Wyrom or something or to XXX

rigid pike
#

It's kind of fun to stumble across a page that has my character name on it, from when I edited it 15 years ago

umbral summit
#

Usually my goto was XXX. My characters name is Jahndow which also applies well to the circumstances lol

rigid pike
#

It's also convenient that I can rename my Dev characters on a whim, so I get Husband and Wife, Musician, Nalfein etc and don't need to redact anything for it to make sense

#

As a GM I also know all the options so I really try to do messaging myself when I have the time

umbral summit
#

Making me jealous lol

coral sigil
#

I always tend to leave my character name. Figure it's fair if you're willing to put in the effort.

umbral summit
#

Ok few more Verb pages updated. Any tips or guidance? Want to make sure I am doing it properly before I go further. Also if I have a question about a page is it easier to post here, or use the discussion page?

plush totem
#

When I was just a player doing pages, I preferred to leave my name off it and defaulted to XXX, just got the sake of anonymity

plush totem
tardy iron
#

@fossil plank ^^

fossil plank
#

makes sense

granite yarrow
#

FYI, I'm working on shop pages. So if anyone is in them, you have been warned. I started at the B's and am now in the C's.

plush totem
#

Hey, wiki editors. I want to start by saying we really appreciate what you do with trying to ensure that the most accurate information is available. That being said, I'm going to remind you (general you) that if you see an issue with an event shop, please drop a line here to let us know what the issue is before fixing it. These are things that should generally be resolved in the tool we use to get the shops wiki'd but we can't resolve it in order to keep it from happening again if we don't know what the issue is. Additionally, as Thandiwe noted ^^, this will generally result in needing to rerun the tool/ fix the shop once the issue is resolved on our end, so please be aware that edits made to those pages can be overwritten as a result. This is not meant to serve as discouragement from jumping in, just giving a heads up on the process, what we need, and what you can expect.

mighty otter
spark relic
#

I know that Thandiwe had said she was going to eventually get all of the missing feature options from the Oustler onto the wiki. In the meantime, I aleady made a page for the unicorns and added the white unicorn. (Black unicorn is still pending, but the table is set up and only needs updating for which ones are available for it, plus any additions that are exclusive to it and not the white.) It uses identical article name formatting and phrasing as other mount feature pages.
https://gswiki.play.net/Unicorn_mount/Available_features

rigid pike
#

But like, I manually updated Legendairy because the tool doesn't pick up the information because of the way the items are built. We want to make sure that gets passed along to the pertinent parties so it can be addressed so next time i don't have to do it manually

spark relic
#

Gotcha! I figured as much but just wanted to mention it since there was talk of getting web pages updated, both with and without using that shop tool.

ETA: The black unicorn coat options have now been added, so that list of features available is now done.

mighty otter
#

Also, can we make the room information in the following format: [building description], [Map Room XX], Room# u12345678, Lich# 12345, go short building description

granite yarrow
#

I am using the mandated format for that section.

plush totem
mighty otter
#

The tool is for the players use, wouldn't it be better if it made it easier instead of harder for us to do so?

rigid pike
#

Now it is long portal, short portal, map, official, lich

#

You are asking for long portal,map,official,lich, short building?

mighty otter
#

It doesn't matter to me about the location of the short building, it's more because copy&paste without the u and with the L cause problems.

rigid pike
#

Ahhh that's the part I didn't understand

plush totem
#

I will respond when I have a moment as it is not a simple response and I'm about to head out for a few hours.

mighty otter
#

As far as I know, it should be a really simple QOL upgrade, as data manipulation is very easy.

mighty otter
plush totem
#

So, the best way to describe it is we, as GMs do not support lich. This is evidenced by how lich pages in the wiki are handled. Our priority, and the tool's priority, is to get the shop inventory up on the wiki. The room numbers are included because 1. The template used for that on the wiki was used prior to GMs taking over the shop inventorying. 2. Lich users can already see our room numbers.

Our formatting of the output was a conscious decision by the wiki team, which is why I said that is not going to change. As stated, we do not support lich, and having the numbers automatically output is already a convenience to lich users only as it does nothing for non lich users. We could just as easily get the inventory up without that information, with just the portals, and players can easily enter it themselves.

Nothing is stopping lich users from setting the format in that template to their preferred view. Our tool will not be doing so, and if we have to rerun the tool, it can and likely will override that edit, as a heads up. This is why I caution about making edits to pages while still being worked on if there are issues in the page.

Also, I'm on my phone, not at home as I mentioned I had to head out and respond when I had a moment.

mighty otter
#

Thank you for sharing your perspective and providing additional context. We understand that the GMs do not support lich and that the priority is to get the shop inventory up on the wiki. We appreciate the effort the wiki team has put into formatting the output and acknowledge that it was a conscious decision.

We also understand that the inclusion of room numbers in the template used for shop inventorying predates the GMs taking over that task. It's clear that lich users already have access to the room numbers through their own means.

While we respect the decision to maintain the current formatting and not automatically output the numbers, we would like to suggest considering a compromise. Perhaps an option could be provided for lich users to set their preferred view within the template. This way, both the convenience for lich users and the wiki team's formatting preferences could be accommodated. While this takes a lot more effort, the tool that the GMs use would not need to be adjusted to add u, and format the output to Lich# 12345 in the output.

We understand the caution about making edits to pages while they are still being worked on, especially if there are potential conflicts with the tool's future runs. We appreciate the heads up and will ensure that any edits are made with careful consideration and coordination.

Thank you for taking the time to clarify the situation, and we appreciate your understanding of our perspective as well.

umbral summit
#

Cervidae Corral
Missing Hart and Reindeer information

Grand Stables, seems like a few rooms are duplicated. Nightmare steed missing info.

Gifts of Atan Irith
Links are broken. It looks like either removing the staff part from the link should work, or changing the Gifts_of_Atan_Irith page name to include _staff

marsh quarry
#

I just noticed that https://gswiki.play.net/Title_system#Rumor_Woods is missing the victor/loser titles from 2021 and 2022.

I have the victor titles as: Protector of the Platinum Pride (2021) and Scaled Conqueror of the Obsidian Claw (2022), but I don't recall what the loser titles were. I'm wiki illiterate, or I'd try finding those and putting them all on the page.

umbral summit
spark relic
#

I added a couple new item pages and one redirect for some of the RW items. I don't have any of them so someone else will have to fill out verbs and ambients and stuff.

fossil plank
#

I didn't really see a template for flares that don't have a crit table assocaited, but I made https://gswiki.play.net/Terror_flare page. I think Wyrom created those and most of those things usually list the creator, but I didn't want to add without 100% confirmation

coral sigil
#

They're definitely his. His lich NPC was the only 1 that offered it. Teekum was the name I think

fossil plank
#

Skyrn is who offered- I don't know he created them though

coral sigil
#

Ah ya that's right. Teekum became Skyrn or was taken over by him

#

I don't know if the storyline took place in prime but there's a platinum story that Wyrom ran that ties into that belmont whip and the tomb of secrets. Skyrn came about through the storyline

fossil plank
#

sounds like Wyrom for sure.

umbral summit
tardy iron
#

I'd like to voice issue with the recent updates to the SimuCon 2023 page that have now made the page locked and only editable by wiki administrators. It seems the main issue at large is the attendee list that is self-populated and voluntarily filled in by players and staff alike. I'd like to hear why the entire list was wiped and now linked to a page that requires a play.net account to login and view and may not even list the correct corresponding name. Several people can only register on that list with their Prime instance character names or characters that they used to pay with via F2P accounts that don't reflect who they wish to be known as while at SimuCon. The SimuCon wiki page has been a source of info filled out and updated by both players and staff over the years. I want to say I'm not a fan of locking down this page nor removing the previous attendee list shown and would like to open discussion on how to reopen it for edits as well as return the voluntarily populated attendee list.

undone shoal
#

I'm unaware of anyone abusing that attendee list in any way aside from Wyrom's repeated editing of one individual while making no effort to contact them at all despite absolutely having innumerable ways to do so, myself. Were there other difficulties with the page aside from that which necessitated locking it?

drifting walrus
#

It will no longer be editable.

#

You can review the box office link provided.

#

But to state I was abusing Simutronics' wiki page is a pretty broad statement.

undone shoal
#

I personally rather enjoy being able to see who is there, and I understand the box office difficulties in creating an automated list for a variety of reasons. Could we state we're coming here, with the name we want to be known as coming as, and have a staff person edit that onto the wiki?

dreamy sky
#

Let players be known on the wiki con list as they care to be known, as has been precedence for many a year. Let people be known as the name and terms they identify with, just full stop.

undone shoal
#

I find it an abuse of privacy, personally, and using the wiki to do so seems abusive, but am willing to cede semantically that's correct, sure.

dreamy sky
#

It’s mostly player populated as a list of names, it’s voluntary. Stop outing former staff members, too, it’s wildly unprofessional. We get it, you don’t seem to like con, Wyrom. So politely, ignore it and grey rock it. Everyone else who enjoys it can have fun. There was just no need for the changes.

drifting walrus
#

Going to fire off just one last post here, will be my last on this subject. The GM in question isn't a GM anymore, the name was removed from the GM list. It was added back on the player side. I was asked to remove it today and to mirror the box office. It was again edited, so that's it, it was pulled. To say I'm outing a former GM when that GM is on the Discord server as the same Discord username is completely unnecessary. But as for your comment about me personally, no that is not the case. I'm not a fan of the issues that SimuCon has had over the years, and I've expressed it many times, but I'm not against SimuCon. The reason for me not attendee this year is because I suffer from two separate and competing autoimmune diseases and I have a very weakened immune system. "SimuCon Funk" is a real thing and I cannot risk getting sick. To claim I'm being unprofessional and saying I'm invading anyone's privacy is completely out there.

undone shoal
#

Asking someone if you can out them, regardless of what percentage people you are outing them to, takes immensely little effort that you knowingly dodged. You can describe that in whatever words you would like, but that does not in any way change that it will never be the right thing to do. Doing the right thing for you would have taken no time, but twice you chose not to.

mighty glacier
#

you still have a former GM on this discord thats under there GM name.

dreamy sky
#

Had you felt the dire need to take action, for the good of the game community and social contract we all surely abide by, you could have asked that person what name they’d like to go by, or if they’d like to just have their name removed from the wiki list. Give people autonomy, as a basic human thing.

undone shoal
tardy iron
#

Edits/Changes to wiki pages that have been primarily maintained and updated by players by staff/moderators, without any discussion or communication before the change was made, has been a long standing criticism of the wiki in the past. If the reason for editing this page was to mirror the box office, that should have been put into the wiki edit notes. Instead, there was nothing put in and we are only left to assume whatever we want as viewers of the wiki as to the reasoning why. There were also other players that were not updated on the wiki to match the box office names. Only the single name was chosen to be edited. Why was it the only one chosen to be updated and not the others?

No where on the page was it previously documented or mentioned that the attendee list on the wiki page needed to match the name on the Box Office. In fact, doing that actually will cause more confusion as I previously stated, not everyone can register on the Box Office with the name they desire due to game instance and account activation status. We even allow for the customization of our attendee badges to be whatever name we want to display. The wiki is just an extention of doing the same. Forcing the wiki to match the box office, if it was discussed and opened up for communication, would have likely been shown that it was a bad idea.

I once again ask that the wiki be re-opened for edits as it is a player-driven resource for attendees. If there needs to be limitations on what can be added/edited, it should be noted on the page so that we can follow the guidelines going forward. But as the wiki page was before the change, there was nothing out of policy on it. I do not believe the page should be locked. Will future SimuCon pages also be locked going forward?

lime lion
#

This conversation seemed about as productive as a glass eating contest, yikes

undone shoal
#

What suggestions do you have for improvement?

lime lion
#

I think it's either clear or tutelage from someone like me isnt going to help.

undone shoal
#

I do not find it clear and don't know who you are so can't speak to your capabilities, I suppose, but hopefully other audiences appreciate you.

plush totem
#

Hey, guys, I believe the discussion has run its course in this thread, so I'm going to ask that we return to our regularly scheduled wiki discussion. The decision to lock this particular page is done, and as it deals with a page that is solely for SimuCon 2023, I would ask that the discussion gets moved to a thread for that instead, or you may contact [email protected] regarding your concerns.

I understand that there is concern about this, and I'm not trying to dismiss or disregard it. However, I do not want this thread to be derailed from general wiki help questions/discussion any further than it has been.

Thank you.

tardy iron
#

If there's still concern about it and you're not trying to dismiss or disregard it, how does that lead to the belief that the discussion has run it's course? It contradicts the very statement. Suggesting it be moved to it's own thread is fine and warranted, but to start off saying that it's run it's course when it has not, is not the proper way to open up the message and move it's discussion someplace else. I'll take the continued discussion to an email to [email protected] though as it seems discussion here is being forced to end.

umbral summit
#

ImPressions is missing a room on the wiki. The binders and ink were not grabbed.

mighty otter
#

I realize that this is the last run for The Silken Lotus, so my mentioning it is more of a "hey your tool might be messed up?", but the unlock certificates in Irita say "your -voucher- will unlock your -voucher- to tier X"

plush totem
#

That actually appears to be an issue with the certificates and not the tool itself. When you ANALYZE the certs (which is what the tool is pulling), it looks like this: ```
Your certificate is used to unlock the potential of things held in your other hand.

Your certificate will unlock your to tier 4.

You need only RAISE your certificate while holding a compatible piece of equipment in your other hand.

Your certificate may not be altered or changed in any way.``` That space between "you" and "to" is the issue, which would need to be fixed on the cert itself.

granite yarrow
umbral summit
#

Oh noes. Im sorry. I did happen to notice you while I was stocking up. Will head back for more ink now that you are done. Thank you.

granite yarrow
#

Me being there shouldn't have caused an issue for you purchasing things.

umbral summit
#

It didnt. I just like to let you guys work in peace. You do so much, no need for me to distract

fossil plank
#

https://gswiki.play.net/Wizard_(front_end)
Is this page able to be adjusted by players? Wizard downloaded from the play.net website won't function as is and following those instructions. This was brought up to some former GMs in the past but they were unable to get any Simu resolution. There are a few steps necessary including a DLL and registry entry that we keep posting in #scripting but I'd like a referencable location to push people towards. Best would be the installation page on play.net itself, but absent that can I or staff update the WizardFE page and is there any restriction on DLLs uploaded to support?

plush totem
fossil plank
#

DLL does not appear to be a permitted file type

plush totem
#

You may need to link to an external resource for that. Files are typically meant as things that can be viewed on the wiki, like jpegs, png, pdf

fossil plank
#

Is this something you can modify? I'm not sure that an external hosting is the best answer, particularly for something that needs to be persistent.

plush totem
#

This is not something that can be modified, no

fossil plank
#

it appears as if modifying localsettings.php allows modification of allowable extensions

#

can we ask whoever has access to that? Or better just get simu to host files to allow their own software to work?

plush totem
#

That is a server level change which is something that cannot be done without significant aid from office staff. As had been noted multiple times with extension requests, we can ask, but do not expect it to be done, or done in a timely manner if it is approved.

#

I have offered a suggestion as to what can be done in the meantime as a stop gap. That is your likely course of action for now and the immediate future.

raven olive
#

Since an important part of being able to play the game, (Wizard FE) you'd think that onsite would be more motivated to update this on the server side. It is quite frustrating at how badly the support is to help get customers, new or otherwise into the game and set up. 😦

plush totem
#

I cannot speak to the official website, downloads or otherwise. I am only speaking to the wiki.

spark relic
#

I vaguely recall the challenges of asking, asking, and asking again, and then waiting for no updates from onsite, is the reason why official documentation was moved to the wiki and the play.net documentation left behind.

tardy iron
#

Could slap it up on a GitHub @fossil plank somewhere and link to it from there.

Make a EO/WizardFE repo 😁

coral sigil
#

Why are the registry edits needed?

#

The wizard fe worked for me with no problem following the instructions from the website

fossil plank
#

did you have it previously installed?

coral sigil
#

Nope
Brand new windows 11 install

#

From 1/12/2023 though

gusty furnace
fossil plank
#

the company really should not be relying on third party organizations to install their own software. I'd say the onus is on them. I was willing to help with the documentation and placing it in their domain, but if they are disinterested in purshing or making the line item change necessary, then I've done my part

raven olive
#

💯 👆

plush totem
#

As I stated, we can ask. However, just like with extensions or any other server-level items, that is all we can do. It is up to the office to handle those things, and I cannot make any guarantees that it will be approved or that if approved, it will ever be implemented in a timeline that you (general you) may deem acceptable. My response is meant to temper expectations based on that. As this is an issue that extends beyond the wiki itself, the wiki channel is likely not the place to discuss it. I have offered an alternate solution that was considered unacceptable, but given that the wiki team can only ask, and cannot guarantee that your request will be honored, there is not much more we can do.

crude egret
sharp zealot
#

I haven't been able to successfully install Wizard in years. Granted I don't try very often.

crude egret
#

If I couldn't use wizard I'd probably stop playing Gemstone altogether. (seriously)

umbral summit
#

New Speech Verbs added to the wiki, not touching Tones as that table is scary. I would suggest maybe converting the tones list to the same table as the speech verb list?

plush totem
#

Okay, wiki lovers, I have an update for you! In order to get event pages in line, I have released guidelines for how to set up a Free festival page. Basically, it is almost exactly like how pay event pages are set up, with a few small changes to accomodate the fact that free festivals are much smaller in scope (like, we're not going to see 80+ shops at them). Right now, the only festival that is set up to this current format is Festival of Lumnea because that was handled last year. You can review them here: https://gswiki.play.net/Help:Free_festival_page_setup

plush totem
pallid pine
#

Don't GMs do these pages now?

plush totem
#

GMs do a lot of current pages, that doesn't mean they are going back to update the old ones. The guidelines are in place for both players and GMs to handle moving forward. Some players want to be able to go back and update these pages, so I announce it to them. Otherwise, it will be the wiki team or moderators who will handle when time allows if we get to it.

#

There have been a lot of festivals over the 20+ years that GS has been in existence, so there are likely a lot of old pages that need to be updated.

pallid pine
#

Interesting. Sounds like a waste of time, but to each their own!

plush totem
#

You are, of course, welcome to your own opinion, and no one is saying you need to be the one to do it. I'm simply announcing that they are there, they are live, and if someone wants to do it, great. If not, it will eventually get done to ensure everything is standardized.

silver skiff
plush totem
#

Your suggestion is noted, however shop name prefixes will be using the updated standard as it has been laid out with the recent updates to how events are being handled. Once everything has been handled and in line, there should be no confusion. Simply because something was done one way in the past does not mean it is the optimized way to do things. These guidelines simply state what has been getting shifted for the past 1-2 years for events overall; but focused on free festivals only.

silver skiff
#

Do you have a list of festivals and their associated prefixes that can be referenced by people who work on such things?

plush totem
#

Not currently, as I am not at home, and I apologize as I thought I offered clarification on that the only shops that are being affected are ones that have appeared at festivals that have had multiple venues. EG and the premium festival are the only events where this would come up. For instance, festival of lumnea remains as FLShop, and Duskruin shops remain as BVShop.

#

While a shop that appeared at EG while it was at Feywrot Mire was updated to FMShop.

#

I'm trying to respond on my phone while working so answers are sporadic

silver skiff
#

So shops that exist in multiple venues like Carry On at both Festival of Lumnea and Briar Moon Cove should exist in both prefixed namespaces (duplicated)?

plush totem
#

Yes

#

Ideally, we wouldn't see too many shops that that would happen with.

#

It's all possible they will occur, but they are an exception, not the rule

silver skiff
#

How many is too many?

plush totem
#

Aside from the one you mentioned, I only know of one other where that occurred.

silver skiff
plush totem
#

If we start to see a larger amount recurring regularly, the wiki team will have to evaluate why it's happening and if we will need to allow for special handling of them.

sharp zealot
#

I'm pretty sure All That Sparkles has been used as the shop name for several different festival shops.

plush totem
#

Traveling merchant shops like that won't easily be identified by players, either, but that's considering past festivals. Where as festivals moving forward will or should be handled by GMs, it should be easier to identify

silver skiff
#

Why wouldn't you want raffle and event information to be separate from the shop listing?

plush totem
#

As noted, free festivals are not to the same scope as pay events, where most information needs to be separated out due to the massive amount of shops/activties/etc that are made available. Because of that, there is not a very good reason to not have it consolidated into one page.

Additionally, this is based on festivals that have followed that standard in the past, which is why standardization comes into play. There have been plenty of festivals that do it this way, as opposed to the other way, so it's a matter of settling on one standard versus the other.

silver skiff
#

Who are all of the members of the wiki team?

plush totem
#

The other members would need to disclose that themselves, though I'm not sure if it's a secret. However, like many things, me specifically outing them is likely not the best course of action. If you would like to communicate with the wiki team, you can email [email protected]. That goes to the members of the wiki team.

pallid pine