#[Official] Dark Elf

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hybrid dirge
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Currently? We sent out an email last year requesting people apply and give a reason why they felt that they would be a good fit. They were discussed and then we accepted those that applied or denied them. We did have a guru for Dark Elf, but the work load didn't work out.

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I do have plans to get a permanent one, but I am not ready to do it for a multitude of behind the scene reasons.

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None of which I can openly discuss.

sick knot
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I don’t think anyone on the player side wants to have a no-win situation for staff, as it results in what feels like a no-win for us, too. I can’t speak for everyone, of course, but I know that many players of Dark Elves, both Faendryl and Dhe’nar, would be more than happy to help contribute, brainstorm, or otherwise aid if that would make it easier on staff. Again, none of this is meant as criticism, it’s just always disappointing to get excited for new lore that includes multiple races and cultures, and then realize that for the umpteenth consecutive time, there’s nothing for the one you play. I’m not trying to make anyone on staff feel bad, merely expressing my own frustration and disappointment.

eager nebula
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Ill just wait until you cook something up. Just don’t forget about us.

I can be patient. It’s all good.

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Make sure to attach my services. I’ll add all this to the receipts Im piling up. 🤣

hybrid dirge
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I do want to make a note about how Spring isn't done, though. I ran out of time to hit the deadline and wanted to make sure that Day of Kuon's Blessing got the same details that Zelia's Warning and Festival of Oleani did.

eager nebula
elfin haven
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I appreciate getting it out on the equinox, now I know that it's Vaalor bird day

eager nebula
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Maybe you can get a Vaalor bird on your sloop?

elfin haven
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Man, not to highjack the thread, but I'd pay a lot of DR monet to change my stupid ship bird to a not bird, you can even slow me down and give me an otter that gets sea bounties at like a 10x slower rate, just get the birds outta here. Anyway, back to Dark Elves

devout fable
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We celebrate one unofficial Faendryl holiday in February or March, a carnival/masquerade tradition that we have some backstory on, but it isn't official. I've been meaning to add to that, and I will make sure to do so in a way that suggests "this is how my family celebrated" or "this is what I remember doing" so it doesn't occupy space that a guru may later want. Commemorating major events in Faendryl history seems like a thing they/we would definitely do.

One day a year is Mardi Gras for us while for most people, it's just a chilly Tuesday. Maybe this makes me more okay with celebrating holidays others don't observe, but until there are official celebrations, I'll see if we can't get together on some unofficial ones.

sand stag
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Honestly the reason I suggested in the first place was after watching Treme and thinking, this is way more complex than 'just a party.,' and the investment into Carnival that is multigenerational, emerging out of diversity and strife- seemed very Faendryl to me 😉

hybrid dirge
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I'm wondering if I read the wrong Carnival thing. I did read a player written thing but I didn't think it was Faendryl so much as another house.. Uhm... Argent Aspis? Maybe I was looking at the wrong thing.

sand stag
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Oh, I should have been more specific.

hybrid dirge
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But also, that was a Winter one... cause We are going from today forward to end of Spring.

sand stag
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Seven years ago (hard to believe!), the Faendryl Enclave were brainstorming for a new event to hold in the earlier part of the year, to balance out the Symposium in the fall.

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And after watching that show, and knowing that one of our favorite Faendryl lives in New Orleans (❤️), I suggested we have our own Masque. And then we came up with some loose structure to it to link it to a Faendryl ceremony.

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We wanted to have something that would make sense for the Diaspora, in the same way that the Carnival in Nola does, I guess?

hybrid dirge
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We kind of struggled with the idea of taking an MHO or CHE or player run event because we a) didn't want to co-op it, b) didn't want to impose pressure on anyone to continue running it, and c) didn't want to encourage other people to steal that groups idea. Its a hard balancing act.

sand stag
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I can certainly understand that, and I appreciate that this document is clearly a labor of love, and came from the work and creativity of so many people.

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At the same time, I have the same disappointment that some earlier folks expressed, no mention of the Faendryl or Dhe'nar.

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I don't know what the answer is, so I figured that Lylia had a good start- we'll talk about what we do in our MHO, and hopefully the Dhe'nar players will do the same.

plain path
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As the chair of a CHE that runs the Seafarer's Festival (in late summer) in an Imperial barony, I was delighted and amused to see the Seafarer's Carnival in another Imperial territory, which is both very similar yet so different from ours. With "generic" names like that, it makes a lot of sense for there to be multiple seafaring celebrations (just like there are I think... three? CHEs/MHOs now that have a "Snowball/Snow ball"), and I was glad to see that this take was both a little different and also during a different time of year than "ours".

hybrid dirge
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(It was also pulled directly from the Human Empire document)

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It wasn't created new.

plain path
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Haha, you'd think I'd remember that! Thanks for pointing it out Thandiwe. (I did notice that a few were compiled from prior docs and very much appreciate seeing them all in a single cohesive place.)

hybrid dirge
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🙂

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We had to do a ton of research in so many different directions!

plain path
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I bet. I should add my praise to the proper thread. Overall it's a very impressive document. I look forward to the eventual future inclusion of the two largest dark elf cultures in addition to the many cultures already referenced so far.

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More appropriate for this thread, though, I will say that my favorite dark elf mention thus far is the expansion of Evashir's orders and the reference to the Order of the Moons.

devout fable
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I never mind "sharing" a holiday, or at least not the broader outlines of one; if we have a carnival celebration the way we do it in the Enclave, that never precludes someone else celebrating a different way without a "you're doing it wrong!" from us. People in Mobile toss Moon Pies off the floats, and people in Gramercy light bonfires, but it's still all the same celebration. It could even be pretty cool to see how different Faendryl holidays are celebrated. That's the beauty of holidays; there's no wrong way to go about them.

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Well, theoretically. I'm sure there could be a schism between those who believe in blood sacrifice for honoring Chesylcha versus those who just burn effigies and scream wordlessly at the moons like normal people, but I like to think it wouldn't get heated.

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I do understand steering clear of MHO/CHE things in general, though, and appreciate the thought, both for not wanting to tread on toes and for not wanting to box those organizations in to running something special every year for it.

graceful kestrel
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Catching up to this thread...I am happy to teach the existing player created dhe'nar language to any staff interested in forwarding that bit of the culture by including it in future documentation. It was never meant to be a language to begin with, but as the decades went on, it has grown to have some grammar elements and become an iconic RP tool of many dhe'nar characters.

The more recent lore pieces for clothing came up with new dhe'narsi words that fit well with what we have and we were very excited for it. I for one, would love to see that continue should there be interest even if it be simply for the linguistic piece.

graceful kestrel
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I know this is left field, but what about offering opportunities for player input for those areas? The museum in Ta'Illistim was a great experience to add a little culture to the game that didn't require a "from scratch" document.

graceful kestrel
sand stag
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That museum event is a great example of how staff solicited IC contributions.

viral knot
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Because I was working on ||redacted|| I realized I hadn't ever put out the Dhe'nar Lexicon like we have for other languages, so I threw that out there today.

TONS of thanks to @plain path who actually emailed me the list of all the officially released terms she could find and the document references. It made my life much easier in getting this started!

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Like all lexicons, it's a living document, so as we release new terms in the language, we'll add them here, and we have the Discussion page set up for you to add ones we missed that we'll check periodically (but you can also fling them at me here)

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And now, I can get back to what I was actually working on, now that I have a handy list of terms to reference!

sick knot
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Thanks, Xynwen!

plain path
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Very glad to hear it was useful! Thank you for making the lexicon official.

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I will add that the list was made possible through the combined efforts of several Obsidian Tower members, who helped spot check for me and make sure I wasn't overlooking anything in official documentation :)

runic eagle
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Wonderful, Xynwen, Thank you.

plain path
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I feel like I didn't really convey my appreciation yesterday. While I realize that the new dark elven culture has been the hot new thing for lore releases (and am very glad for those players for whom it more directly impacts), I really appreciate the Dhe'narsi lexicon making it onto the wiki like this. Even just as a compilation of existing stuff, it feels good to see it - like we aren't forgotten after all. Thank you for that!

viral knot
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❤️ you are never forgotten! My sorc's a Dhe'nar (unless I decide to swap her to Evashiran some day), and even if she does, I'll never forget you or the Faendryl! I love all the races and finding inspiration and doing lore and such....and having lexicons actually somehow really helps me focus some of my thoughts (which are usually all over the place in 80 million directions).

viral knot
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As an FYI, the summer holiday document has both Dhe'nar and Faendryl celebrations in it. I know there had been discussion here about the lack of it in spring. (And as always, the reminder that these documents are not the end-all, be-all of holidays, so not every race, culture, town, or area is going to be included every season, nor does this mean there are not other holidays/festivals/celebrations/etc during these seasons)

humble patio
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I do like that the Faendryl holiday is basically "throw fireballs around everywhere"

sand stag
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I loved the new Faendryl holiday, it's got the right level of drama and show of power that I've always liked about the culture.

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(also the fact that it's throwing around fireballs should help convince Raelee that we really need to get on her...uh, conversion.)

timid relic
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Thank you for thoughtfully including the Faendryl 🔥 Looking forward to continued releases of more such interactive and engaging concepts!

sage pagoda
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Three cheers for sanctioned pyromania!

viral knot
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I really enjoyed writing the Faendryl one because once I got the idea, I was like...this seems like something they would do...plus, what would make me like fireworks? Students trying to impress professors.

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and then yes, we would def start gambling on it, right? I mean, come on!

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I'm glad you guys like it <whew>

sage pagoda
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you don't like fireworks?!

sand stag
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...or students trying to murder each other, whichever ❤️

viral knot
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From an art perspective -- yes I love elaborate gorgeous things. But they're so loud and the pretty displays are all with tons of people. And everyone in the South tends to set off loud, obnoxious ones at the least provocation and bring out the guns too

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I like my fireworks as skyfire and now this!

sand stag
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And, of course, the simple pleasure of watching it all burn.

It's a mutable sort of celebration 🔥 🎆

viral knot
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Next up, they create Gandalf-like dragon fireworks that chase unsuspecting visitors out of New Ta'Faendryl

sage pagoda
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ahh gotcha - yeah I like the mortars and the skyfire

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yes I'll take it

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then the erithi can have the gentler synchonized light orb shows

humble patio
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Maybe they just start letting loose every type of bolt there is in all directions

compact cove
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Do any sorcerers get involved making balefire based creations?? Or is it for the purely elemental inclined fire users? I love this holiday by the way!

viral knot
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I think this one was just elemental, but I'm sure balefire testing is fun!

devout fable
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I have been meaning to get a chance to get in here and say thanks for an excellent holiday! It sounds showy and dangerous and therefore just perfect. Going to see what this inspires for the Enclave this summer! 🎆

viral knot
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🧨

devout fable
hybrid dirge
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[Events Team] Guru Announcement

The Events Team is pleased to announce two new Gurus in the World.

Please welcome GM Kaonashi as the new Town Guru of Kraken’s Fall. I’m sure many of you have noticed his uptick of participation in the Kraken’s Fall Folder and the new faces that he’s brought to Kraken’s Fall over the past few weeks. We are excited to see what he will be doing. He will be supported by Kraken’s Fall’s past gurus and other KF enthusiasts.

Please also welcome GM Warlockes as the new Race Guru of Dark Elves. Warlockes is already working on Autumn and Winter Holidays, as well as other documents. We are enthusiastic about his knowledge in the area and look forward to his work. He will be supported by the other Race Gurus as well as the Lore Guru at every turn.
Please offer congratulations to them both.

viral knot
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Yayayayay!!!

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You are in AWESOME hands!

sand stag
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Welcome aboard, GM Warlockes! We are so thrilled to have you here!

devout fable
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Whoooah, guru! I'm thrilled already -- we will give you a few days of peace before besieging you with questions. 😄

amber comet
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yay welcome GM Warlockes! 💜

viral knot
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Pish, besiege him!

devout fable
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Got to say, with a name like Warlockes, I'm already optimistic. 😄

echo cairn
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Hey, everyone. So I hear I've been found out as the Dark Elf guru. I would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for those meddling kids. Like the announcement said, I've been writing holidays for the fall and winter documents. I'm reasonably confident you are going to like them. It will be a good test of how well I know the audience. Obviously, I'm a very new GM, basically GM Level 1. I'm still training on some heavy things. Such as GSL.

That being said, I want you to know, I've been playing Dark Elves here for almost 30 years. I pretty much only play Dark Elves. My main interests in the game are Dark Elves and Dark Elf accessories. Demons, undead, undead demons, demonic undead, some abominations and aberrations thrown in for flavor. Maybe a nice flame whip made from a melted spinal column. So, this isn't a case of just filling an opening with one of the newbs, taking over Dark Elves was my primary motivation for coming onto staff.

I expect to be doing some heavy work on the lore, and a lot of listening to try to be in alignment with what this subcommunity actually wants. Hopefully avoid surprising everyone with stuff you want to set on fire. Try to hit that sweet spot of developing things without "they ruined it, now it sucks!" I know, I get it. I've wanted to burn things sometimes myself. I keep weird hours, but I will be here.

sand stag
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You will find that weird hours and the desire to burn it all down are aesthetics we Dark Elf players relate to, for the most part! I'm very excited to see what you come up with, and am glad you are here! Welcome!

sage pagoda
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Awesome intro! Colin Robinson avatar, cool GM moniker, stans Dark Elves... Very exciting stuff! Welcome aboard and thank you!

devout fable
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Right!? Checking all the best boxes! So very looking forward to what's to come and delighted to have a guru to call our own.

compact cove
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This is super exciting! Welcome ~ I look forward to all things balefire, demons, and undead ❤️

silk palm
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As a human who wishes she were a dark elf, really excited to see what you come up with!

sand stag
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👆

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See? What did I tell you? 🤣

runic eagle
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Welcome, Warlockes. I look forward to your work.

echo cairn
silk palm
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That pale priest. Such a nice guy.

plain path
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Welcome aboard, Warlockes! Very excited to have a guru (again)!

frail wraith
supple trench
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Warlockes or Xynwen, I recently ran across the dark elven culture Evashir. I am very interested in this exploring this culture further on my bard. He is a very young bard, dark elf, that I never could find a fit for and I believe this is culture to be perfect for him! I did have a couple of questions that I am hoping someone could point me in the right direction. I see the different order's in the culture. Is there one with regards to bards or bardcraft? Also I noticed when I finally converted him to Evashir that there isn't a culture language set, is this in the works or is it even being considered?

viral knot
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So right now, there is probably not an order I've listed with bards/bardcraft, but given the open-endedness of the Evashiran love of Orders, I think it would be reasonable to assume there would be one, and Warlockes or I may expand on the Orders at some point, of course (it's already happened a couple times with the holiday documents...wherein a new order is listed for the Evashiran holiday being discussed).

it is intentional that there is no "Evashiran" language -- they are the first dark elven speakers, essentially, so that is their language, and they did not develop a secondary one, unlike Dhe'nar and Faendryl who had developed theirs in different ways: https://gswiki.play.net/Dark_Elven_languages has some info on that. I'm sure Warlockes can expound more eloquently than I on this point, but both Dhe'narsi and Faendryl were developed independently of the learning of Dark Elven during their times in Rhoska-Tor.

supple trench
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Thanks for the response. I appreciate everything you both are doing for us

viral knot
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oh and if you haven't checked it out -- last year's EG storyline was draugr-related and based on an Evashiran fairy tale (it was actually the precursor to the culture being released).

Also, Warlockes is going to be the heavy hitter for dark elves. I'm just an errant dabbler in everyone's fields <g>

supple trench
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I saw that he got tricked...I mean...he was asked to be the guru....

Since I didn't even know this forum existed..I'm trying to read back as much as I can.

devout fable
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We have holidays now!

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So do other cultures and races, but this time, so do we! 🤩

sage pagoda
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once a decade - yay lol

viral knot
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Hey you got some with summer too!!

devout fable
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I did, this is very true. I love the fireworks! 🎆

humble patio
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"fireworks"

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I just use it as an excuse to throw fireballs at everything

devout fable
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Doesn't say it can't be celebrated more often or as needed with major military victories. We'll just have to be more expansionist.

humble patio
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Also to be honest the Triumph of the Imperium really doesn't seem like a holiday that is celebrated anywhere besides within New Ta'Faendryl

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It's still great as background/history lore though

devout fable
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I definitely like the background it paints, yes.

humble patio
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Plus celebrating once a decade feels like a very very elven thing

sage pagoda
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I'll admit the historical info is pretty awesome for Triumph of the Imperium

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Deso has his first bucket list item now lol

echo cairn
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This particular triumph is a "whole society grinds to a halt" scale of event, so it's partly elven sense of time, and partly to keep the spectacle from becoming mundane. I left it open ended on how it is celebrated more broadly so that I can mine ideas from the player base and possibly flesh it out more later. For example, we could treat it as an annual founding day celebration on the off years, since it's timed for the NTF founding.

This also gave more definition to Faendryl territory outside New Ta'Faendryl, Gellig was only a word without context before now. But triumphs (and ovations being lesser triumphs) are really a category of event that can be held at any time, if there is reason to hold one. The winter holidays I submitted were annuals.

sage pagoda
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I appreciate anything that breathes life into the ongoings of the Faendryl. Just as a player of a Faendryl Sorcerer only, I have a lot of built up anticipation. 😅

devout fable
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Oh my, did I see a mention of winter holidays?!

In all seriousness, thank you for an event, or maybe a category of events would be a better term, that provides some perspective and history as well as all the pageantry of parades and public executions I could hope for from New Ta'Faendryl!

plain path
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Echoing the thanks for the new Faendryl holiday and adding on those same praises (if not more so) for the Dhe'nar holiday! Some exciting new stuff that really ties in nicely with established lore and character portrayals in game.

echo cairn
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The implied solar eclipse in the Dhe'nar holiday was inspired by the eclipse pendant. I based the timing on Lornon's cycle.

plain path
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Hahaha, that is awesome! I mentioned it in the Lore release thread but I'll note it here, too.. having ownership of that item in prime is bringing a fascinating new level of meaning to my character now. I loved the reference of the Eye of Noi'sho'rah.

echo cairn
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Since Lornon has only a slightly longer orbital period than Earth's moon, and Elanthia has an Earth length solar cycle, and the moon phases are determined by the angles from those frequencies, I figured Lornon solar eclipses should happen roughly as often in a given spot as Earth ones. But Lornon is probably smaller, but the path could be more elliptical. It might even be a hybrid of an annular eclipse turning into a total eclipse with an Eye of Sauron kind of effect. So, my thought process was basically, the high castes try to roughly predict the eclipse cycle, and outwardly dress it as a prophecy.

I was pulling in a lot of stuff that had not appeared in canon documentation yet. And other more specific references like the eclipse pendant. Like there was talk of holding a Roman-style triumph after the KST invasion of Glaoveln. Or "Hail Chesylcha" which was a salute greeting in the Faendryl-heavy organization House Chesylcha about twenty years ago. A lot of people who were in that were in the Faendryl Enclave later. I was definitely trying to hook in relevance to what players do or have done with the holidays.

plain path
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I very much appreciate the thought to what players have done with their characters over the years. It definitely makes new lore feel that much more impactful, even if it's just a small nod to those things in the grand scheme of things.

With regard to Lornon and its orbit, I definitely had theorized the same, given its similarities to Earth's moon. The point about it being a bit smaller is a great one; I like how the overall visual impact of such an eclipse would be a bit different from the ones that we know and experience. Also very much dig the visual comparison to the Eye of Sauron, heh.

devout fable
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I also very much appreciate GMs who take existing lore that players lean on and build on that. I will forever cherish the Igaeshian vials Kaikala made. I'm equally excited to see some foundational elements of Enclave RP brought in where they make sense.

sand stag
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I very much enjoyed meeting our new dignitaries ❤️

echo cairn
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I don't know if it came up explicitly during the coronation itself, or only afterwards, but basically what's happening there is an Emporion trader (Zahiris) decided on his own to go to the coronation and do some information gathering. Word of that made its way up the chain to the Basilica, which had not sent anyone, and so the Tristar was sent to make sure he doesn't cause problems with his mouth. They were both being kind of snarky, but not full Statler and Waldorf.

hybrid dirge
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haha

viral knot
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Well, now I just want Statler and Waldorf Faendryl-style! 10/10 would pay to watch you do this

echo cairn
devout fable
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I would absolutely buy tickets to Faendryl Statler and Waldorf.

viral knot
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It's a date!

eager nebula
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Still don’t know if Likushi got the letter sent months ago. I know the other two haven’t.

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But while I missed it, definitely cool that they were there.

sand stag
# viral knot It's a date!

and that date is next weekend, as now that we're done with the coronation extravaganza, it's on to the 7th Annual Faendryl Symposium!

viral knot
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weeps in EG

sand stag
# viral knot weeps in EG

we're all feeling the crunch, but likely nowhere near as much as staff ❤️ We appreciate you very much!

viral knot
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❤️ nah, putting on player-run events is HARD, so kudos to you guys! Been there, done that too ❤️

hybrid dirge
eager nebula
sand stag
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Coming up this weekend! It's the 7th Annual Faendryl Symposium! While everyone is welcome to come to our events, I hope that our fellow Rhoska Tor dwellers will want to join us, as well!


At 11pm, Ysharra will MC a game of Nalfein Infiltrator, a roleplaying game.  The game will be in the Alabaster Spire's Lounge.

On Saturday at 10:00 PM EST, we will have an encore presentation of our play "Kypheia," a mystery with a stunning conclusion!  Again, this will be in Brigatta's theater in the Landing.

Saturday at 11:00 PM will be the Symposium Gala, in the Alabaster Spire's Grand Hall.  Come show off your finest and favorite outfits, and celebrate our seven years with us!

Sunday at 12:00 PM, Lylia will elucidate some of our history through a political and social lens, please join us for a fascinating look into the past, present and possible future of the Faendryl people.

At 3:00 PM on Sunday, Missoni will offer up a lecture on the Faendryl textile and art of New Ta'Faendryl and the Faendryl diaspora.  We've all admired her style over the years, come watch her use her own wardrobe to dazzle and educate!

At 4:00 PM, Ysharra will conclude with her lecture on how the Faendryl made their desert wasteland into the thriving, bustling cornucopia of food and fine exports.

All of the Sunday presentations will be in the Alabaster Spire's garden.```

https://gswiki.play.net/Faendryl_Enclave
viral knot
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WOO! Hooray for Symposium!

devout fable
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I traded away Heaven and Earth so I could be off on Sunday, but it's worth it!

devout fable
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We still have a lot of events lined up for sunday, and earlier tonight, we got a chance to meet Ambassador Vespasius, who may be the most Faendryl Faendryl I have met. 😄

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I'm going to assume that was our new Guru playing around in the dark Elven sandbox, and if this is a sign of things to come, I'm excited!

echo cairn
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It's been a while since Ambassador Tredohal went to the Symposium. So I wanted to show some support.

plain path
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For those keeping track, I believe the first NPC from Evashir in the wilds was spotted this past weekend. One of the EG conference presenters, Zethes, is a half-elf from Evashir. It wasn't a plot point (that I'm aware of) but it was nice to see the representation!

wind talon
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One thing I've noticed is that a couple of Faendryl documents (both official) contradict themselves on political rank. The "History of the Faendryl" page states:

Next in rank are the Archchancellors. There is one for each borough of the city, as well as for trade, arts, magic, and warrior classes. They are in charge of overseeing their specific borough or skill set, keeping them running smoothly and in prime condition. The lead Basilican Sorcerer and Prefect of the Palestra are both ranked as Archchancellors.

But the Theory of Governance page instead says that there are only five Arch-Chancellors (one for each division of the Pentact), and mentions a great many other ranks: Magistrates, etc.

So, uh...which is correct?

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This is important to me because I've been stating so far that Emperia's father is an Arch-Chancellor of one of the city boroughs. The first lore page seems to potentially suggest that there are maybe one or two dozen Arch-Chancellors out there (or at least more than five), but if there are only five, then...that feels a little weird.

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I kind of want to say that Tredohal (the guy that wrote the governance page in-character) was simplifying or leaving things out, since he was writing that for outsiders.

echo cairn
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The "History of the Faendryl" document has some major inconsistencies with other lore documents. It was released during Hot Summer Nights in 2002 around the same time as the (canon version) Dhe'nar history, which were book objects in Library Aies and framed as contrasting biased perspectives to each other. The "Theory of Governance and Social Order" document (canon version) was released in 2015. For the most part, I want to treat more recent documents as superseding older documents on points of friction, so for the Faendryl in most cases the Tredohal document is the gold standard. It establishes the whole Pentact system, which didn't exist yet as a concept in the older documents, which talk about the "Basilica" but not the Rachis or Clerisy.

Making the Dark Elf lore more internally consistent is a high priority for me, part of that is reconciling the frictions between ranks and institutions with the older documents and later documents. The Arch-Chancellor situation is also there with the Chancellors, which were made to sound numerous. But now the Chancellors are the highest ranking heads of the Pentact divisions and there are only a few of them. Their corresponding Arch-Chancellors are law administrators in the Rachis. Something I'm trying to figure out is how Faendryl governance works in settlements outside the capital city. Those local or regional governances would need titles, so that might help alleviate the tension.

wind talon
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Thank you for the response!

One thing I would find useful to know (not necessarily right now but for future documentation...though I wouldn't turn down an estimate!) is roughly how many people are in a given "rank." Reading over the theory of governance document, it looks like Archon might be a better idea than Arch-Chancellor, since if what I'm understanding is correct there are only a literal handful of Arch-Chancellors and Chancellors. Basically, I need something that is pretty exclusive and high-ranking, but where there are enough of them that I don't run the risk of them all ever being named. My impression is that there probably are maybe 25-50 Archons (they sit at the top of piles of Magistrates and Lictors) but I'd hate to start calling dad an Archon and then wind up in the same position a few years down the line.

I would love to know more about the non-capital regions of the empire. Though, in my case, Emperia was raised in the Center of the Universe, and that means New Ta'Faendryl. balefire

eager nebula
sage pagoda
#

It's interesting to consider family dynamics. To anyone who has an opinion, do you think affluent Faendryl parents approve or frown upon adventuring outside of NTF? Does anyone RP as an ambassador or the like? I lost Deso's family crest. Wish I still had it. It's been ages. I think his mother was a librarian scribe and father was a scholar. I have to check logs.

sand stag
#

I don't have anyone who I play as an ambassador, exactly, but I feel a lot of us play "representatives" of unofficial status for sure.

#

I have a lot of characters from a single family, the Dyvims. Kalal is the family patriarch (lowercase p), who I now refer to as the head of the family because using the word patriarch seems dubious these days. I made him long before the Patriarch was a thing, hah! I have his son, who is definitely the black sheep of the family, and then some other random cousins and grandkids and in-laws and so on. Most of them are magic users, and I would think that their families find their wanderings to be acceptable because they're out there in the world's back 40, so to speak, perfecting their craft. Particularly if they are sorcerers.

#

However, that sounds like a really fascinating RP angle, honestly. Maybe there's some Faendryl clerics out there who were ostracized because they believe and worship one of the Arkati as a divine god, which isn't socially acceptable. Faendryl are often purported to be egalitarian and a meritocracy- people should be able to follow their own paths and develop their strengths, but there would have to be social norms, still, and that would make for some intriguing motivations.

amber comet
#

Missoni is from a traditional clerisy family, but her family supports her wanderings as an exchange of knowledge and actually sent her from Ta'Faendryl in part for that purpose (so, a bit of an ambassadorial role without it being "official"). that's how i reconcile her having a role in the Vornavian court as well.

eager nebula
#

Yardie doesn't talk about his roots much because it would leave a trail about his origins, which would spell trouble. But he wasn't affluent at all.

In short, he was a nobody who took over the manual labor his mother did when she grew incapable of doing so.

Yardie left home by force, in the interest of his mother's safety, but I think she might have had reservations of leaving.

sage pagoda
#

Pretty cool stuff 🙂 Thanks for sharing. Do you think Dark Elves in general are the least likely to wander from the pack compared to other races? I guess I think so. So we adventurers are special!

humble patio
#

Faendryl society itself is pretty isolationist so I would assume ones from New Ta'Faendryl would be much rarer in the frontier

sand stag
#

When I read the lore, my impression is that the sylvans feel like the least likely to wander, however, adventurers would have to be such a small percentage of any of the represented cultures. That being said, it often amuses me how few humans we see.

sage pagoda
#

I've always felt each town has its own townsfolk who do mundane things besides the NPCs and shopkeepers. Then there are the adventuring types (us players).

devout fable
#

What character, despite being a sorceress, has roots in the emporion because according to lore, they travel the most. There are hints that they often function as the eyes and ears of New Ta'Faendryl, so that has kind of grown into part of her backstory, explaining why she is so far afield. Her parents, who were once dead when she was newly minted but have since grown back, approve as one of them is Clerisy and the other Emporion. I also play her as going back home fairly frequently, so her ties to the city may be stronger than some like to portray in their characters.

silk palm
eager nebula
devout fable
#

I know there are irregularities and inconsistencies in the decades-long lore, and sometimes that has been a headache for players and GMs alike. But it has also created nice little niches for role-playing to occur, allowing players to decide for themselves whether they are ostracized for leaving home, on a diplomatic mission, spying for the motherland, or just a good old-fashioned murder hobo.

devout fable
#

The current crop of freshly grown parents is congenial and supportive, I am happy to report!

silk palm
#

Excellent! Sounds like the spell was a success.

devout fable
#

Great success!

#

That sprawling and sometimes chaotic history over decades has left lots of opportunities for those who want to play a more traditional or archetypal character to link them closely with the city itself while those who play more iconoclastic characters have unique spaces they occupy. I know of at least a couple who have grown up in Imperial provinces, one who hails from the emptiness of the Wastes, and many who were on the outskirts of New Ta'Faendryl itself, either on farms or in small villages that are undefined in current lore.

#

It makes me wonder how that may shift if some of these other communities become defined, such as Behizet and Gellig. I might be unusual in letting my character's background be influenced by new information in the game, but I think the possibilities are kind of exciting!

sand stag
#

Sometimes it even manages to teach half-Faendryl how to speak Dark Elven and Faendryl. So does that mean it also reanimates language receptors? That's some finesse right there 🤣

#

In some ways, the lore being changed/expanded/clarified makes playing a canonical character a wee bit bumpy. There was so little about the dark elven cultures for so long. Though to be fair it was hardly just them with a scant paragraph or two.

#

And in some ways, it makes playing a character who on some level operates outside of the cultural norms a bit easier, too. You'd expect them to be a little chaotic/divergent in some ways, and it allows a person to make some changes.

#

Yeah, one of the reasons I do not bring Ysharra to much RP these days is she turned into the Elanthian Jean Grey, and I just don't want to do that anymore, heh. Kothos is also a half-Faendryl but he doesn't know it. I would love for him to somehow figure it out one day, but I don't think that will change how I play the character very much- he already finds his Faendryl friends to be lovely company.

devout fable
sage pagoda
echo cairn
#

I was reading over this and jotted down thoughts, but that turned into a wall of text. So I'll boil down into bullet point comments.

(1) I will have to figure out if there are numerous or finger counting number Archons. If/when I were expanding the Rachis lore, I think Lictor-Magistrate-Archon is too small for the scale of society. It might end up being more like the FBI which has half a dozen ranks of field agent (Lictors and Magistrates) and half a dozen ranks of director (Archons under the Arch-Chancellors.)

(2) I think that adventuring would also be especially appealing to Faendryl who chaffe under the regulations and oversight of Faendryl laws. That's a likely motive for the push in recent years for wandering Palestra, and historical frictions or bad blood in other places having that kind of expatriate.

(3) The present documentation definitely hypes the meritocracy. I'm inclined for egalitarian and meritocracy rhetoric to be more complicated, or even masking elitism and structural inequality, similar to how it does with elite institutions in the real world. When I look at the sociopolitical document, I'm asking myself questions like: "What problems was the monarchy trying to solve by artificially structuring society in this way?" In this case, who is being kept in line, and who is being baited with carrots?

(4) The Patriarchal succession could use some refinement. There are a few places that describe it as "by blood" and bloody family politics, but also that the authority for it is indivisible and solely inheres in the Patriarch. So it's not like the humans where a feudal title stays within a line of descent, even in a perverse case like Talador, where the descendant Barons had no power over the merchant council that controlled the territory. The Patriarch raises son(s) from birth to be Patriarch, but they have no claim from that. Ultimately he will choose someone in his orbit who will not get his statues defaced later and omitted from history.

sand stag
#

For number 3, I'm curious what your opinion is 🙂 Would it be the clerisy, perhaps? After all, they would be pretty necessary to survive exile, but also are very...tragic hero characters, I guess? They almost destroyed the world to save it.

#

And could do it again.

#

That's not just to Warlockes, if anyone else wanted to chime in, too 😄 I like sociological perspective.

wind talon
#
  1. I think that the Archon/Magistrate/Lictor scale here is perfect as is. Even if there are subranks in there, whether formally or informally, I think that it's important to consider that this is lore for a fictional setting and not the creation of a real, functional system. I don't even know the names of the months of the Elanthian calendar; I don't think that having a large list of formal ranks for one section of society for one culture of one race is really necessary. TLDR, less is more, in this case.

1a) I feel like maybe the best of both worlds would just be to state plainly that there are varying levels within those three categories and not go into more detail (Theory of Governance already hints at that). Maybe list one "High Archon" who reports directly to the Arch-Chancellor and oversees everything, but no more detail than that.

  1. My take (not on your questions specifically, but on this topic in general) is that the Faendryl might THINK that they are an egalitarian meritocracy, and they might even be closer to it than some/most others, but that it is probably fundamentally false. In the real world we like to tell ourselves the lie that everyone has an equal shot, but the reality is that people who are born into wealth have enormous advantages -- material goods, lack of privation, education, healthcare, connections, free time, and safety nets for failure. It's probably similar in Faendryl society, where characters from wealthy families like Emperia are being prepared for their prestigious careers in expensive academies while characters like Yardie theoretically have an "equal shot" but are in reality operating an a huge disadvantage. Sure, they MIGHT "make it" -- there's no law saying that they have to have been "born a noble" or whatnot -- but it's nonetheless unlikely.

  2. There have been relatively few Matriarchs over the course of Faendryl history, at least from what I understand. It's very hard for me to reconcile that with the claims of gender equality that appear elsewhere in Faendryl documentation; I find it highly unlikely/unbelievable that both of these things would be true. I would like to see this addressed at some point in the future. I feel like either more Matriarchs need to be acknowledged in the lore, or that the documentation should note (at least on an OOC level) that the gender equality isn't quite there (or possibly some third option, just something).

plain path
#

I'm excited to hear that some of the lore discrepencies are things that you intend to address. While my personal interest isn't fully on the Faendryl, due to my main being Dhe'nar, I do have a Faendryl who I'd consider both typical and atypical of the culture, so this discussion is intriguing to me on multiple levels. I don't want to detract from it as I know many who have Faendryl mains are very invested in improving this lore, but I am curious as to how much you intend to work with the other dark elven cultures. (This also may be better asked at some future dark elf ooc meeting, if one is forthcoming.)

devout fable
#

I obviously have a lot of thoughts on Matriarchs and why there have been so few of them! I think some of the lore is where gemstone really starts showing its age; not that the '90s were eons ago, but some of these documents were written closer in time to when women couldn't get our own credit cards without a man cosigning for us than they are to today. I would absolutely like to see more of the Matriarchs in the history as I presume there were more than three in tens of thousands of years.

I really appreciate the take that any society, and I'm going to broaden this out to our other dark Elven societies as well, should have a reason for why it is the way it is. So much great fiction is great because it has roots in reality, in the stuff we all understand and feel is true. It makes sense to wonder why this highly structured Society is the way it is and how it solves problems to structure it this way. I feel as though the Dhe'nar have a bit of a head start there because the evolution of that culture was from the ground up, that is, from player creation to official canon; you'll see a lot about the reasons for why they have their tripartite structure and why there are no half-Dhe'nar.

devout fable
# sand stag For number 3, I'm curious what your opinion is 🙂 Would it be the clerisy, perh...

I never would have guessed you enjoyed exploring multiple sociological perspectives! 😄

The Clerisy does seem the most closely associated with the "business end" of Faendryl history, and now that is making me wonder whether they were known by that name pre exile? That is, was this social structure new or was it something that has arisen in New Ta'Faendryl? That may be a question with an obvious answer, and I apologize if so.

eager nebula
#

The talk on 2) is in essence Yardie’s story, and it’s good to know his origins, hidden as they may be, are not wrong.

It also adds to his initial fear of Palestra and a sense of purpose he and some of the other Vanguard of Mahkra may have.

#

I also am in line with how Emperia sees the chances that a person has in Faendryl society. I’m also down to see a Matriarch or at least better explanations as to why they’re so few of them. I’m down for seeing that evolve more, and that’s the best I can articulate my support from my position. Either way I’m chuffed to see what’s next.

echo cairn
#

(A) Loosely speaking, an autocratic form of checks and balances, the way autocrats keep the people under them pointed at each other instead of up. The various factors of society jealous of their own powers, vying against each other for relative status and the Patriarch's favor, instead of vying against the Patriarch. The meritocracy might be partly keeping the upper classes (maybe partly vestigial from the aristocracy of older times) in line with the threat of social mobility, but at the same time helping reproduce their intergenerational wealth or status due to their advantages and calling it merit. There are several culture myths for social control in the existing lore. The Senary, for example, can be twisted into whoever is the most useful scapegoat. Segmenting society might also interfere with populism, excesses of unity from nationalism.

(B) Yes. I will want to mildly retcon the "three Matriarchs" into meaning "in the Second Age" rather than all of history. Others would mostly go in that nearly undefined 15,000 year period between the Undead War and Ashrim War. But part of the answer is that the Basilican Magistrate, who is the head of government that actually runs everything, by the same tradition is usually a woman. The Patriarch is head of state, and tries to stay elevated.

(C) There are a few spots that use Pentact terms for older time periods. "Clerisy" was used when talking about bringing the Ithzir into OTF. I would want the institutional structure of society to have evolved significantly over 50,000+ years, especially from the major upheavals, so that those usages would have some sense yet also be somewhat anachronistic or exaggerating historical precedent for present day practices. The Palestra have roots going back to Ondreian (roughly 40,000 years ago), for example, but another document says the Palestra academies were not founded until the past 5,000 years. So I'm trying to figure out how to make everything make sense.

#

(D) Yes. I want to develop the whole Dark Elf race class. The Faendryl are in some ways easier to work with, they were integrated into the other histories from the beginning. But there is a lot of potential for that whole region south of the Demonwall. Ideally interrelated, so things can build off each other.

plain path
#

Thank you very much for sharing your intentions, Warlockes. I look forward to seeing how things continue with you in this role.

devout fable
#

Oh wow, so what I'm getting from reading this is that the pentact is potentially a newer concept built from existing sociopolitical structures such as the Clerisy? I love this idea of evolution over time, as I feel it's one of the hardest things to capture in a created history. We naturally tend to think of things in a steady state model, but adding that sense of evolution over vast time is cool.

I will take it easy on you and not ask yet when I can build a house in Behizet. 😄

supple phoenix
#

Oh! We have a Guru? And I missed some fantastic discussion, time to read!

devout fable
#

We get holidays!

sage pagoda
#

very cool 🙂

echo cairn
#

Those were both based on player run events. The Vespertine Ball of the Alabaster Spire and the Dhe'nar Mardi Gras of the Obsidian Tower.

#

With respect to the State of Elanthia Q&A earlier, I'm working on deep lore right now, foundational stuff that impacts the whole race class. I'm hoping to eventually have a solid historical backbone, like the human lore has, so that everything is made internally consistent. (Within reason. Human history mostly spans 1,000ish years, I'm trying to grapple with 60,000+ years.) There are timeline contradictions or things that do not make sense under scrutiny, or other things lacking in motivation with questions like "why?" or "to what end?" I know we have not had Palestra trials in a few years. I'm not opposed to trials. The wandering Palestra are in a weird situation of being a foreign policy solution in need of a foreign policy. I'm trying to work out the internal logic of politics that makes sense of why the Basilica is doing or not doing things in relation to other places.

tight cedar
#

Is Evashir going to continue to receive love? Just curious.

viral knot
#

I still have ideas and stuff so I’m sure they will!

echo cairn
#

Yes. We'll come up with stuff for Evashir. Xynwen made Evashir just a year ago, so it's all new. Most Dark Elf stuff was made by people who have not been on staff in years or decades. What I'm working on right now is framework that fixes long-standing problems but it impacts Evashir as well.

devout fable
#

Now that I have an Evashiran, this is good to know. Thanks!

#

It'd be good to know even if I didn't have an Evashiran, but still. Extra good to know. Also very excited and curious about fixes for long-standing problems!

humble patio
#

I love it that the Faendryl have an annual magic nuke detonation holiday

devout fable
#

We had a very happy Magic Nuke Detonation Eve tonight. Thank you for creating the "reason for the season!"

sand stag
#

💥

dire wing
#

Hi I play a half-elf from Evashir and I don't have dark elf Manna bread as a cleric, but normal humie bread. Could it please be fixed so that like half-elves from New Ta'Faendryl, I also have dark elf bread? Thanks!

viral knot
#

Did you put a bug report in? If not, please do that, so we can dig into it. Thanks!

dire wing
#

Awesome, I will do that!

#

thanks!

sand stag
dire wing
#

Half-Elves will be able to create bread types based upon their culture, or humans, if no culture is selected.

sand stag
#

Thank you! After decades of play I learn new things!

graceful kestrel
devout fable
#

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who showed up for the Faendryl Enclave's annual carnival gala tonight -- I saw some Evashirans as well! We just needed some Dhe'nar guests to complete the trifecta.

sage pagoda
#

oh no sorry I missed it!

#

I need to do better! 😳

sand stag
#

We will have more events! We have our game night soon, and then in the summer we'll have an event in Carnivale Revelia 🙂

hybrid dirge
runic eagle
#

Very cool, Thandiwe.

graceful kestrel
#

@hybrid dirge this is awesome! Thank you for adapting the player dhe'narsi into new lore.

plain path
#

Echoing with my thanks for some small (but very impactful) Dhe'nar lore tidbids nestled in the larger document!

raw trout
#

I am looking for help deciphering the meaning of a couple words from a Faendryl text. Anyone savvy with Faendryl literary terms?

devout fable
#

I can try, although I'm not sure I could really help. Whatcha got?

raw trout
#

reading the Enchiridion Valentia, multiple sections are headed by "Enchira Tyr: (name of Valence)" so, in this context what would Tyr mean? I assume Enchira refers to the presence of the section in an Enchiridion.

#

for reference, I am working on a lorebook and am trying hard to be true to the source material... which is almost all Faendryl.

devout fable
#

Nice, I love that you're working on putting something like this together! This is not canon but just my own guesswork, but I think of the "tyr" suffix as being something akin to "place of" or "realm of." So "Enchira Tyr: [Valence]" would be roughly "Guidebook of the Realm of [Valence." Or if you want to look at it as a Harrower might, "The Traveler's Guide to [Valence.]"

Somehow, I didn't actually make the connection of what the word means, but "enchiridion" has the same root as "cheiromancy" or "Chiroptera" -- it's something that fits in the hand, a literal handbook. I'm glad you asked this; I dug and in the process, learned something new.

sage pagoda
#

interesting, chatgpt says Tyr means blood... I also felt that Tyr meant a location of sorts... plane, veil, etc

devout fable
sage pagoda
#

Enchira Tyr = spider blood?

#

the demonic valences are outer shells surrounding Elanthia?

#

what if it's the www and we are the demons? gasps

devout fable
#

I always pictured them as something like that, yeah, or like electron orbitals, where some of them get really weird as you get into larger, heavier elements.

sage pagoda
#

interesting stuff - shien = mirrors/reflection, lorae = madness/dreams, grik = dark/corrupt

#

tyr seems to be blood or plane - maybe blood is a metaphor

devout fable
#

I like that possibility.

echo cairn
#

It is not well defined. The word-part "Tyr" is not in the Faendryl Lexicon or the Elven Lexicon or the Dark Elven Lexicon. This is one of those cases of a lot of different people touching the Faendryl lore over the decades. Enchiridion is a Greek word meaning a handbook. There are a lot of Latin and Greek easter eggs in the "History of the Faendryl" document. "Enchira" is apparently an arbitrary mutation of it, first introduced in a later document by most likely a different author.

It seemingly implies "chapter of the Enchiridion", with "Enchira Tyr: [Name]'Tyr" being something like "Handbook Chapter of the Realm of [Valence Name]". The "Introduction to the Enchiridion Valentia and Summoning" document says: "Each following chapter, called an "enchira tyr," corresponds to a subcollection in the repository, which organizes information around the valences."

Then each valence listed is [Something]'Tyr. But it is not absolutely obvious "tyr" means "valence" or "realm", when given that wording, it might instead designate a "subcollection" in the archives associated with that valence. Like a pointer for where in the library to look, in which case Lorae'Tyr might mean "the stacks with all the stuff we associate with the Lorae valence". You could imagine it might be difficult sometimes to uniquely demarcate these other worlds, and the Faendryl treating them contingently as conventions, like some kind of extrachthonic taxonomy that shifts around with more evidence.

I'm not saying that's the intent, just speculating the plausibility of it. It might be they have other naming conventions on top of it depending on cosmological models. But the usage in the Enchiridion Valentia document itself seems to treat [Name]'Tyr as the placenames for the valences. I think most people interpret "tyr" to have some kind of "outworld realm" meaning. But the cosmology lore is not that systematically defined in general. I'm hoping to eventually make more sense of this stuff.

raw trout
#

This is awesome input guys! I totally came to the right place! I think I can make great use of this and still keep the lorebook "in character" by taking these points and inputting it into the glossary of the volume. My character is a half elf so I can insert some footnotes to explain what and why this is being done just like a real compendium!

If there is enough interest I will share the pdf copy of my final compilation here as a thanks to everyone who has helped me ferret out these terms.

devout fable
#

Yes, please -- I'd love to see it!

raw trout
#

fyi, i created a new citation and endnote for this interaction which credit you guys with the reference material on the Enchira Tyr term in the glossary. 🙂

sage pagoda
#

maybe Tyr is a universal word to describe a part of something
blood of a body
chapter of a book
plane of a world
etc

devout fable
#

I can see that, especially in a figurative sense. If I say I have "a mountain of paperwork" to do, it's a useful metaphor.

raw trout
raw trout
#

would the Faendryl scholars consider the elemental planes "Valences" the same as they do the demonic realms and, since demon refers to most all extraplanar life, would that make elementals a type of demon or would a Faendryl scholar simply lump elementals into the "planar" subcategory?

sage pagoda
#

they're distinct, elemental planes are inner planes, demons/sorcerous planes are outer planes prob the outermost

#

now I'm seeing correlation with the 4 inner elemental planes as the 4 inner planets of out solar system. Thanks for the mind trip! heh

#

and I'm thinking of Ant Man and the Quantum Realm too now bc of the Tyr/blood thing - don't mind me! haha

raw trout
# sage pagoda now I'm seeing correlation with the 4 inner elemental planes as the 4 inner plan...

I am tenatively categorizing the elemental planes as valences, albiet closer in ones, and the confluence as a unique place where they overlap in chaotic but understandable ways.

Since I am.using mostly Faendryl research it means that elementals are seen as a kind if demon. I might borrow from the lexicon to refine the language in the volume more. Make it more IC and immersive. Keep in mind this is written from the perspecrive of a half-elf sorcerer doing deep research.

sage pagoda
#

If your sorcerer wishes to see them as that who am I to say he can't, but I wouldn't hope he'd say the Faendryl see elementals as demons.

#

yay Missoni is typing! 🙂 I'd trust her and Lylia over my knowledge anyhow. lol

raw trout
#

Hmmm. The reading on the wiki makes it ambiguous since I believe demon is states to refer to anything from outside Elanthia? "A demon in GemStone IV is defined as "a being from another dimension."

That being said, I am handlingbthe project like an irl research book so mention and refering to the conjecture should lend it an air of authenticity.

amber comet
#

Missoni sees elementals as demonic, mostly because she doesn't feel that the word "demonic" in common in nuanced enough to describe the differences between the different types of planes and valences. she'd argue that the Faendryl have a far more detailed taxonomy of extraplanar beings (but that the taxonomy absolutely includes elementals). and as i've mentioned before, to her the definition of a "demon" is more social than scientific. it's a convenient way in common to identify who is doing the type of magic that acceptable and who is doing...sorcery. i think OOCly it could go either way, really 😄

#

Missoni has Perigourd entirely convinced that unicorns are demons, which...if you see the dream realm as a separate valence could be possible

raw trout
#

This whole exchange will make for a good point to mention in the primer of the volume!

sage pagoda
#

That make sense, but then are Arkati demons because of where they live now or not because of where they were born?

#

I agree the dream realm is another valance and therefor unicorns are demons in that sense 😛

raw trout
sage pagoda
#

So demon as a synonymous term for "alien" is distinguishable from demons that Faendryl summon. I can buy that.

raw trout
#

I feel like I invented a word...

amber comet
#

if they live on the moons, they're aliens i guess? i think the second part of what makes something a demon is if it's controllable by magic. you could probably make an argument that since clerics can call an Arkati forth...maybe they're demons?

#

Aelotoi came from a portal, but they're extraplanetary not extraplanar

raw trout
#

My inderstanding is that
Native or originating from Elanthia = not demon
From another plane by origin = demon

sage pagoda
#

Intergalactic planetary planetary intergalactic!

amber comet
#

when i go to the Rift...am i the demon 😭

raw trout
#

Referring to the lexicon I expect that I could refer to the traditional "demon" demons as vath, may provide some additional clarity in the reading.

raw trout
#

Sorry for typos. On a phone.

amber comet
#

in general when i am making up lore stuff i usually just use wishy washy academic language for things that are not totally well defined "some Faendryl scholars argue...."

echo cairn
#

This is another situation of multiple hands touching the same thing and pulling in different directions.

raw trout
#

Like... for Dragonlance fans.

Gully Dwarves are capable of math but numbers beyond 2 are outside their scope.

sage pagoda
#

Just happy for the discussion

raw trout
#

My hope for the Compendium Valentia (working title) is to create an immersive tool that is flexible enough to be built on. Like any volume irl I expect it to be built on or deposed. (See books on spontaneous generation and humors irl)

sage pagoda
#

Unfortunately my knowledge has declined greatly after Hunt for History II in 2003 and my hiatus from 2009-2019. So this is cool to get things stirred up.

raw trout
#

I feel that. I have been back about a year. I last played before that in '97.

amber comet
#

i was gone from 2010-2021 so we might all just be way off 😄 but i like that there's room to play with the definitions

raw trout
#

I am VERY happy right now. Usually I get minimal feedback on my projects and this is really boosting my mood!

sage pagoda
#

Yeah you'll find more interaction from interested parties here than our house server.

raw trout
#

I am the librarian, books are sort of my thing. And IRL my house is kinda a walk in library. I even have crawling bookshelves in my hallways.

sage pagoda
#

Pretty cool. Got that nice book smell I bet!

raw trout
#

All this framing and outlining material... I kinda wish I could develop a cosmological map of the valences. Gotta crawl before the walk though.

boreal acorn
raw trout
#

This is interesting. Its from the cosmology page of the wiki.

Some realms are "near" while others are "outer." (recurring motif but not explicitly stated in documentation)

#

So... the elemental realms, since Elanthia was composed greatly from them, or more specifically from their primes, would be near, which explains the presence of the confluence, while the more distant layers/valences would have the far more alien creatures and beings like the Shien and Vvrael and Ur-Daemons

#

By this undeestanding/compromise the elememental "planes" are near valences with the elementals being "near" demons and so less "alien" than the more distant valences?

devout fable
#

Lylia tends to conflate "demons" and "extraplanar entities" intentionally when discussing them, even though she is well aware that they're different and come from places far more inimical to our existence than the elemental realms. This active sophistry is meant to normalize demons and make them more acceptable to see on the streets of town.

If she were to give a proper accounting of what a demon is versus something that is extraplanar (extravalential?), it would involve something more twisted than just accessing a spiritual realm or an elemental plane. Demons are from somewhere considerably farther and more dangerous, somewhere beyond the veils of reality that separate our characters' known realm from the Bad Spooky Stuff.

Not every demon summoned from these places (which, I would imagine, are far more numerous than just our usual three). Verlok'asha and verlok'cina are beautiful and seemingly innocuous. Arashan and grantrises, for all their weird appearance, aren't particularly menacing. Regular PC summoned demons just aren't all that terrifying except for maybe abyran. But stuff like vathors, necleriines, oculoths? Outer horrors! Stuff of nightmares!

raw trout
#

I got permission from all parties involved. Please understand this pdf was an attempt at direct transfer of an in-game text to a true visual format. The Compendium should feel MUCH more like a lorebook for one of the big ttrpg names.

📎 Enchiridion_Valentia_Ch_4-6.pdf
raw trout
# devout fable Lylia tends to conflate "demons" and "extraplanar entities" *intentionally* when...

I have learned a LOT today from spending several hours running back and forth over the official wiki entries, my hope is that the Compendium will draw a lot of these threads together. Today, after expanding it by several sections, I was happy to find the way to easily fold Faendryl lexicon terms directly in. I wish I had more as I believe it will add more immersiveness to the work and provide a tool do deepen the lore of the game as a whole.

#

I should note, I took one BIG liberty with the Enchiridion... I added artwork.

devout fable
#

This looks amazing! I'm paging my way through it.

sage pagoda
# devout fable Lylia tends to conflate "demons" and "extraplanar entities" *intentionally* when...

Yup! That's why I see the inner/outer planets as well as atomic orbitals as inspiration for the valences. 4 inner planets are the 4 elemental planes, the inner planets have 3 moons (1 for Earth, 2 for Mars), the asteroid belt is the confluence and other "intersecting" planes, because of all its colliding chaos, then the outer planets are for the oculoths, vathors, neclerines, etc. Then Pluto's orbit is perhaps another "intersecting" valence of chaos with all the icy debris.

devout fable
#

Yeah, I thought of the inner rocky planets and the far stranger outer ones as analogous, too. The weird stuff, way out there.

raw trout
#

was it ever made clear if the Aelotoi world was a plane or a planet? Do I include it as a valence or not?

humble patio
#

It was a planet I am pretty sure

#

So same valence as Elanthia

boreal acorn
#

But some people could interpret that as different plane (it's not, but you know... some people)

echo cairn
#

Bre'Naere was always intended to actually be another planet in this same universe. If you dig enough you can probably find instances of it being misinterpreted as extraplanar. I would say the Confluence release storyline wouldn't make any sense unless Bre'Naere was another planet.

#

"Valences" is a weird situation because it's kind of a dead metaphor. It comes from the cosmology model Banthis was using for summoning mechanics that ended up not happening. Then the term stuck in later documentation, without its original context. There were nuances in the concept that we've kind of lost. But it was much like atomic orbitals.

raw trout
#

I can use all of this! The threads are coming together for a unified cosmological hypothesis! I am so grateful to you all! Who knows! GS might find a use for it, no matter what this is super fun!!!!

raw trout
#

I think I can even work Vaelfyren into the terminology used in this cosmological model. Teaser: I am thinking of using it to help explain the multiverse theory.

raw trout
raw trout
#

I have been sketching out and looking at cosmologies today and I think I have a hypothesis that will reconcile the current state of, apparent, discord between some of the varied things discussed acrtoss the wiki. Again, this has been huge fun and the deeper I go the more I am geeking out. Knowing that there is an official acceptance of the multiverse allowed me some creative freedom to do an IC hypothesis of my own that i will include in the finished work. 🙂

#

I think valence, as a Faendryl term, fits the barriers dividing the different layers of the cosmology pretty well, even if it is an older term and the original intention has shifted somewhat. Since vaelfyren (glass made using balefire) exists I and, because of the nature of balefire, I want to fold that Faendryl term into a theory on the multiverse as being a kind of vaelfryen facet/mirror/parallel of each other. Who can say what is, or could be, the original?

I am leaning towards a modified "great wheel" cosmology because that will allow me to keep the visualization of the valences and worlds as separate, while maintaining the close proximity of some (note the elemental primes) and any collision, alignment, or near miss can be at least understood as the "spoke" of that valence carrying it into proximity to another. It could give rise to a storyline (this is me WILDLY theorizing btw) of a planar entity using x-power to try and force or adjust a convergence so they can do something (like an ur-daemon invasion as one possible historic example).

In short, I like the idea of a modified great wheel cosmology because it allows us to reconcile must of the lore that might, on the surface, seem to conflict right now. This is the direction I am going right now anyway, with this IC work. I will treasure any and all feedback and please know that I am not intending to be making canon or anything, this is largely an IC project meant to provide depth to the world and... as a way for me to show others how I personally am making sense of this.

sage pagoda
#

oooh like wormholes?

#

I could see valence "flares" existing to cause such anomalies.

raw trout
# sage pagoda oooh like wormholes?

i think less like worm holes. valences still makes sense to me, the wheel just helps us to visualize the motion in a way we can more easily comprehend. think of it more like layers of an onion but we visualize them by flattening them out and then layering them on a wheel. the layers move in relation to each other and the currents of unknowable cosmic power.

we visualize it like a spoke on a wheel that connects to valences near and far. the closer ones, like the elemental planes, would be closer to the hub of the wheel (where the prime material plane and all its multiversal worlds exist, more on the multiverse and how its separated another time). If we expand our perception of the valences as these "skins" that each contain a whole universe and then it becomes easier to interpret. think of the "spokes" as less a wormhole and more of the cosmic tether that ties them to the prime around which each orbits either near or far.

raw trout
#

I could use a judgement call here. I an curious if the expanded sections in the volume should include "Elanthia'Tyr" to give a brief on the valence Elanthia is found in. The "prime" if you will.

Part of me wants to but at the same time, as it is the "home" plane we have far more knowledge about it than the other valences. It might unbalance the volume sizewise...

Also, apologies for such a long timegap on the project. My HDD storage drive got deleted and I had to do a recovery. Took two days and then I had recovered every version of every file I ever saved on the drive. I had it sorted out after a week but then I took downtime.

sage pagoda
#

How brief? It could be a nice segue to intersecting planes or it could be your 2nd volume in a series. 🙂

humble patio
#

To me it'd make sense to describe it as just another valence, nothing particularly special about it.

raw trout
#

I definitely plan to revisit Elanthia proper in an ecologies and later ethnographies series for fun. For now I am thinking that Thrassus is probably on point. I will keep the description of Elanthia'Tyr limited to the same base information as the other valences. The big difference is that the "denizens" section under the valence will be more of a notation and direction towards existing bodies of work.

Desorceri is also on point about going forward with a later volume that explores a more detailed breakdown of the valence.

Thanks for the input guys! Also, continuing request for more Faendryl reading so that I can continue to work the terminology into the overall piece. I read a great discussion/article about Faendryl textiles and that's given me more material for immersion.

devout fable
#

Oh, you are going to love the Faendryl Symposium in September, I can tell. ❤️

echo cairn
#

There isn't much I can say about ill-defined details on the cosmology. It overlaps my sandbox more than most, so I want to refine a lot of these issues. But it will have to go through all the approvals.

raw trout
# echo cairn There isn't much I can say about ill-defined details on the cosmology. It overla...

Totally understandable. Projects like mine are purely IC driven. I try to be thorough in my references and such but its meant to be a conversation and immersion piece more than anything cannon. If you end up liking it then I am over the moon, if its not what you had in mind... well irl books like this get disproven or rewritten all the time!

Regardless I am having huge fun with the project and I hope, when I post its beta and final press that everyone gets great enjoyment out of it!

#

@devout fable I have recently become aware of your wiki article covering Faendryl Divination and am reading over it... would it be ok to add your work to the bibliography and footnotes?

devout fable
#

Of course!

raw trout
echo cairn
#

It's a balance of wanting to include or not contradict things from players and not borrowing too heavily. The hardest to avoid overlapping is stuff that is highly cross-referenced and systematized with minimal embellishment. It's like trying to invent the wheel, and end up reinventing the wheel.

raw trout
#

The project is super fun but, to prevent myself from utter madness, I am trying to use the stuff that makes the most sense but to write it like i would one of my irl research papers or reference books. Enough to show "how" its grounded but still take the concept and make it "more" robust for those who are interested. Ideally it will be a piece that can be used ic and will inspire others to build off of it. Thats the hope anyway. 🙂

#

My biggest challenge has been making this thing "sound" like a volume grounded in Faendryl because its genuinely difficult to find a robust reference of faendryl cultural language.

echo cairn
#

Most of the Faendryl lore pre-dates the "Faendryl Lexicon", and a lot of it pre-dates the culture language mechanics and the "Dark Elven Languages" document. Most Faendryl related terms are either Latin and Greek, slightly mangled Latin and Greek, or obscure English words that come from Latin and Greek. (Except for the demon / valence terminology, which looks arbitrary.) Some royal names are Sanskrit, or other Easter eggs.

There is another wrinkle in that, within world, the Faendryl cultural language is less than 20,000 years old. Which means a lot of this terminology, such as Lorae'tyr, is older than the Faendryl language, so would technically have been Elven. So there is just very little in the way of Faendryl language terms so far.

raw trout
humble patio
raw trout
devout fable
#

That sounds fascinating to me!

raw trout
compact cove
#

I AM BACK. I am so excited to see all the discussion in this thread. I've got a lot of catching up to do.

devout fable
#

Check out the WL channel for an unexpected turn of KST as Thagoria showed up the other night to see what all this disturbance of the valances has been about. She also learned about Aralyte and her whereabouts in the shadow valence, so this is relevant to Faendryl interests. She's potentially going to be around later tonight too.

echo cairn
#

Thagoria spread the sorcerer Sacrifice update last week for the Basilica through the sorcerer guilds. In response to KST storyline events. The Basilica will be sending NPCs to the Wehnimer's Landing region, conducting investigations on the shadows / Ithzir invasion (etc.), but the Basilica is still working out the details internally and has not formally announced it yet.

amber comet
#

i am so excited to see more Basilica action blackfansquee

humble patio
#

I'm hoping they leave a more permanent presence similar to the east

devout fable
#

👆

devout fable
#

For any Faendryl and Faendryl-adjacent folks out there who might not know about it, the Landing has had a visitor from New Ta'Faendryl itself lately, Thagoria.

There will be a Faendryl delegation coming soon to the Landing to investigate Ithzir sightings and stuff to do with the lost Palestra Blade, Aralyte. There is a LOT of juicy lore hinted at when Thagoria talks, and there are some logs posted in the WL channel, but it isn't just for Landing stuff.

I got some questions about NTF and its political structures after Thagoria took off, so I thought it might be a good time to haul out the presentation I did a while ago on Faendryl sociopolitical structure. I'll be doing that at 9 Eastern tonight starting in front of Moot Hall. It's just drawn from existing canon, but i know I felt I needed a refresher on it after hearing her talk, so I thought it'd be a good time to share.

It looks like we are getting some actual Name-In-Red, monsterbold Faendryl activity, so i figured we would all want to know about it!

echo cairn
#

Some of the stuff Thagoria is saying is also setting precedents for how the older documentation, with its older terminology, is related to the newer documentation.

#

For example, it wasn't clear how "Basilica" in "History of the Faendryl" relates exactly to "Rachis" in "The Theory of Governance and Social Order", or how the lead "Basilican Sorcerer" who is an archchancellor relates to the Clerisy and Rachis.

#

In those examples I went with "(lead) Basilican Sorcerer = Arch Chancellor of the Clerisy", and Basilica vs. Rachis is roughly like "White House" vs. "the whole federal bureaucracy."

Like the President, V.P., West Wing staff, the Cabinet secretaries, and maybe agency heads are considered "the White House", but not the lower people who work in those agencies like FBI agents. The term can refer to a building, or the core of government, or a metonym for the President.

Similarly, like saying "the Kremlin" could mean "the central government in Moscow", or the Tsar palace where Putin lives, or Vladimir Putin and his insiders, or that whole fortified complex of towers and palace in Moscow.

devout fable
#

busily rewrites part of her presentation

echo cairn
echo cairn
#

I would say "Merry Thrakmas," but that is not a Dark Elven holiday. At least until we conquer Wehnimer's Landing. I have acquired logs of the Enomna the Betrayer mini-storyline from 2023, and filled in those missing log gaps on the Wiki:

https://gswiki.play.net/Nations_on_the_Brink_(storyline)/2023-01-19_-_Faendryl_Tristar_Arrive_in_Ta'Illistim_Hunting_Sorcerous_Fugitives_(log)

https://gswiki.play.net/Nations_on_the_Brink_(storyline)/2023-01-21_-_Ta'Illistim_Court_Session_(log)

https://gswiki.play.net/Nations_on_the_Brink_(storyline)/2023-01-22_-_Hunting_Enomna_and_Henshor_in_the_Wraithenmist_(log)

https://gswiki.play.net/Nations_on_the_Brink_(storyline)/2023-01-24_-_Enomna_in_Ta'Illistim_Court_(log)

devout fable
cold cobalt
devout fable
#

So wait...when we conquer Wehnimer's Landing, and we do away with Thrakmas, does that mean you are the Grinch?

echo cairn
#

Boris Karloff does the narration. That tracks.

devout fable
#

There's a small contingent of Faendryl NPCs near Melgorehn's Reach as part of the ongoing storyline there that ties in with the shadows, and we can ask them questions. Some of their answers are quite spicy:

>
Severina says, "The Turamzzyrian Empire is a perverse unintended consequence of House Nalfein trying to contain the Faendryl Empire.  They try to make it as expensive and impractical as possible for us to restore civilization.  Which is why we expand so much 'upwards rather than outwards', making ourselves the masters of other valences.  It has become dangerously oversized and will need to be broken up and cut out like a tumor."```
They have a lot to say; highly recommend going and chatting with them!
cold cobalt
#

Maybe seeing as Mystiq carrys flacks of the veil in her eyes she may slip in to see what is going on.

tight cedar
devout fable
#

It is a good one, isn't it?

humble patio
#

The name is apt

tight cedar
humble patio
#

I was thinking and had an off-the-wall question about Faendryl society..... what is the ratio of wizards to sorcerors? Like in the background lore, not player characters. I would think that with the great emphasis on sorcery, there would be many sorcerers for every wizard.

devout fable
#

I'm going to say something bold and controversial and suggest that there's less of a distinction drawn in NTF. "Sorcery," and in particular demon summoning, takes top billing, but it makes me wonder if people don't just see everything we do as "dark sorcery."

echo cairn
#

Yeah. In a purely IC framing there's something to be said for "black elven sorcery" (human term) being "whatever the Dark Elves do", because this stuff in theory would all be culturally enmeshed. I think it's all kind of weird in that there should really be dozens of other magic classes in the NPC world, but mechanically we only have a small handful, so a whole bunch of variations that could be distinct kinds of magic get subsumed in those few categories. Which makes it hard, for example, to talk about some kinds of sorcery being worse than other kinds.

You could imagine asking a Faendryl, with their historical tradition of universalist/multi-sphere magic, about pure casters and them looking at you weird. Then being like, "Oh. You mean a specialist in elemental valences." As opposed to X, Y, or Z valences. Saying "sorcery" to someone like that might sound like just saying "magic." But you could also imagine asking a Faendryl 50,000 years ago and them saying, "Necromancy? Demons? What does that have to do with sorcery?"

graceful kestrel
#

I always just saw sorcery as having mainly 2 subclasses historically as flavor text - demonology (Faendryl) and necromancy (Dhe'nar).
While sorcery has always been top billing for Faendryl due to the Enchiridion Valentia, I see them having a higher population of fighter types for recognition and honor of the Palestra. Wizards (or any other profession) in Faendryl society do not seem to get the same level of recognition.
On the other hand, wizards and bards take top billing in Dhe'nar society since the Conflagration as the Warlock Caste. The Priest Caste (which includes sorcerers) kinda tried to go god-mode, so they got checked.

devout fable
#

I definitely see Faendryl as being demon-forward, so to speak; it's right there in world history. At the same time, I hope we never wind up too rigidly confined, which I think is something that happened in the long ago and far away with earlier documentation that essentially gave the impression all of Faendryl society was composed of Palestra and sorcerers. Then the big governance doc came out much later and put some more flesh on the bones, but there was still so much residual "sorcerer/Palestra" energy left over.

There has historically been way too much emphasis on Palestra as the only exposure PCs have had to NTF, and I love the way other elements of a whole society are appearing in NPC form now.

Player-built structures make up the bones of Dhe'nar society, and the caste system is inherently more balanced than the oldest Faendryl stuff, I feel, which was probably never intended to be the representative of a whole society. I remember the vignette of Mharcuis offering a slice-of-life view, which was great but was never meant to stand in for a whole society.

echo cairn
#

Yeah. The vignette at the end of "History of the Faendryl" was framed as a stereotype, though it used both the words "typical" and "stereotypical" for it. The Enchiridion and Palestra were not part of the lore until 2002 and 2003. In that 1996 to 2002 period there was just the premise of demonic summoning and implosion at Maelshyve in "History of Elanthia". Plus the Third Elven War starting in 2000. So I'm pushing back on overly centering the Faendryl on sorcery, and the Palestra, especially in the earlier history.

I agree with the Faendryl having more weight on demons and more weight on necromancy with the Dhe'nar. "History of the Dhe'nar" has them controlling undead in Rhoska-Tor roughly 20,000 or 25,000 years before Despana. Evashir also does necromancy and demonic summoning. There's also whatever factions and cults in the wasteland. So I'd want them all to have different weights and orientations, ideally with different historical magic traditions.

I'm hoping to have a much improved framework for demons and necromancy, in general, especially with how important "dark magic" is to Dark Elves. There's some indications of that in the current Landing storyline, which is synthesizing a lot of premises from past storylines.

graceful kestrel
#

Despana is part of a self fulfilling prophesy for Dhe’nar, as player lore indicates she was a Dhe'nar. I think it was purposely not officially linked by Varevice, in order to keep that historically ambiguous, and that no Dhe’nar would ever admit it might be true.

echo cairn
#

Yes. It is a hardline framing in the original "History of Elanthia" that "no one knows who or what Despana was" and that her "contemporaries believed that she came from the jungles said to lie beyond the Southron Wastes." Which amounts to an accusation. Even before the Dhe'nar were canonized, the Despana stuff was loaded with Drow Easter eggs.

humble patio
#

Pretty much straight out of a D&D module, yeah.

#

It was a great module too, heh.

devout fable
#

I'll bet she was secretly Ed Sheeran all along.

echo cairn
devout fable
#

More history? Yes, please! I really hope, by the way, that we leave Despana ambiguous. It's respectful of player history while allowing characters to have freedom to believe or not believe what they want to about a figure that is half mythical by this time.

echo cairn
#

Most of my framework for history still has to get through approvals. But I would not gut Despana's menace that way, she is more or less our Sauron.

humble patio
#

Then we just need to find out who our Morgoth is she was working for

viral knot
plain path
#

Eeeey really glad to see Dhe'nar inclusion! I dig the new document and items in it. Looking forward to finding new ways to use them.
Small question - was that header meant to say "Dhe'nari Poison Glass" instead of Dhe'narsi (language)?

viral knot
raw trout
#

What do you all think of the term Ilu'drael Velahr as a Faendryl term to refer to something that translates into "Balefire Saint"?

humble patio
#

It sounds very Faendryl

raw trout
#

I finally have some free time in my schedule I am able to work on some of my creative projects so I picked up my work on the Valencia again. 🙂 appreciate and am thankful for feedback!

hybrid dirge
devout fable
#

Nice, all kinds of Dark Elven links there whether you're Dhe'nar, Faendryl, Evashiran, or otherwise. The Scorpion mounts are appropriately metal.

hybrid dirge
raw trout
#

I know that this has taken a long time to hammer out (blame irl) but I am closing in on the end of the Planar Compendium lorebook project I started months ago. I found some time to work on it over the holidays. I have reasoned out a full cosmology that seems to "fit" with pretty much everything I have read. I am only missing a section on the confluence, the rift, and the elemental planes. I have material to build out the Rift and the Confluence but I have had no luck finding information on the pure elemental planes. Any guidance on where I can find resources would be wonderful, in absence of such resources I will just treat those planes as "too pure and primal to be opened".

humble patio
#

Afaik there's not really been any stuff on the elemental planes themselves outside of the Confluence

raw trout
plain path
raw trout
plain path
#

Looking forward to seeing it!

raw trout
#

🙂 Thanks! I have worked hard to create Faendryl terms that fit and to use the existing lexicon. Special thanks to Thand for the last minute addition of the scorpion lore, I actually managed to slip a few references to scorpions in.

raw trout
#

Today, on my planning period, I was able to review the majority of the work and, thanks to the Elemental Magic section on the wiki I refined the explanations for some of the planar features, cleaned up some language, added in some more Faendryl terms, and inserted some new bibliography references into the works cited. All of this new progress has been due largely to the suggestions from the helpful folks here.

echo cairn
#

The elemental planes are mostly described in the History of Elementals document. The water wyrd area in River's Rest also describes an elemental water plane, but that is slightly older than the lore document. The ongoing Faendryl / Lost Palestra storyline has been addressing a bunch of issues related to cosmology.

raw trout
raw trout
#

As I read through the History of Elementals document I am actually surprised by how closely the cosmology I sketched out lines up with the lore here. This is very fun!

#

I had left part of the cosmology open ended with a chicken/egg argument but this actually makes it where I can refine that three paragraphs!

echo cairn
raw trout
#

I had spent a lot of time doing searches on the wiki with mixed results. I did find more than enough to work with and from the looks of it, intentionally or not, a lot of it seems to reinforce itself. I'm excited to finish this project and see if its entertaining and well received. Even if it gets debunked on down the line its been a truly fun ride!

#

I also print a lot of this stuff off to read and annotate on paper. I am a bit old fashioned that way.

raw trout
#

Finished a deep read of The History of The Elements and made a lot of annotations. Hope to do the same with Lost Palestra but right now I have more than enough to refine some of the key cosmological friction points and to add in the skeleton of the elemental section.

#

Wondering if I should insert snarky Faendryl annotations or not.

raw trout
#

Formatting fixes, standardization and cleaning up bad syntax has shrunk the current draft from 120pages down to 89.

I am getting super close to having it ready for a beta read.

raw trout
#

Question: my irl spouse is playing a half-elf vanadre warrior. We have been developing her rp story and I am curious if we could weave her warrior training into the Palestra as her playstyle is mage and magic creature killer.

runic eagle
#

Weave how? As in was/is a part of?

raw trout
#

Like how we met. Was thinking that she could have been trained as a Palestra, maybe completed or not, and ended up protecting my char. (Sorcerer)

#

Vanadre came from everywhere so it would semi-fit lorewise

humble patio
#

There's actual Palestra trials held on rare occasions now.

raw trout
#

So unless she takes those its likely not to work. No issue. Work in progress anyway.

humble patio
#

And when I say rare, I mean super extra rare.

runic eagle
# raw trout Vanadre came from everywhere so it would semi-fit lorewise 
The Palestra is equal to the Hall of Mages with regard to membership. It would take an NPC awarding membership and deciding a PC is worthy. Please do not ask merchants for Palestra items, they will only be released through official means.```

I.e., a Palestra player character (PC) will not be recognized officially unless granted the title by an NPC.
https://gswiki.play.net/Palestra
raw trout
#

Will keep fiddling with it as we learn who her char is and where she came from its a process

#

We were thinking maybe even indirectly. Will explore it more as we go forward. Tyvm for the linked information

runic eagle
#

There are a number of links on the bottom of the page with further information about the Palestra.

raw trout
#

Yeah. We have been reading the whole body of work and taking notes to develop her backstory.

#

I actually think we have a decent plan for her developing, believe it or not the input here helped a lot

plain path
#

one approach you could take that wouldn't contradict Faendryl lore is that she was trained by a member of the Palestra, but not necessarily formally recognized. there's plenty of in-game precedent of that as well, with PC Palestras training other PCs who might not yet have tested in the Palestra trials.

raw trout
#

Funny that when we got to the material on Palestra for the cosmology book she started sketching her idea

raw trout
devout fable
#

Palestra are, at least at this point, strictly and only Faendryl.

#

Not to be a buzzkill about it, and that may change, but it's baked into the lore that even the current Mahkra Academy Faendryl who are, by decree of the Patriarch, drawn from Diaspora Faendryl as opposed to the more traditional Academies in New Ta'Faendryl, are something the more rigid (or hidebound, depending on your perspective) Faendryl view with some consternation. It would be a stretch to have Vanadre Chiras Palestra. Although maybe a Faendryl character who left NTF and Faendryl society entirely might join up with a Vanadre Chiras group?

#

In fact, until the most recent Palestra Trials, non-Faendryl could not even attend, a change I wholeheartedly support; people want to have their characters' friends and family there to cheer them on, and opening that up to all spectators was much more exciting.

raw trout
#

She has been exploring her character identity a lot. The question is "is she a displaced Faendryl who ended up joining the caravans" or "is she a born Vanadre who learned some technique and strategy from a passenger or guest". The goal has never been to shape the lore to fit her but see where her character fits into the lore. We are also exploring another non-Faendryl pathway or two to explain her style and armament.

Great input all!

echo cairn
#

It is a compromise situation where there is a path for ideally long-term RP as player Palestra to be able to access Palestra titles with something analogous to only a knight-errant level of responsibility to the Faendryl government. So, the loose parallel is human characters who are squires (etc.) in player chivalric orders for years, eventually getting knighted by NPCs. (Or Hall of Mages, or whatever.) Except the last step of Palestra training is to do the trials. Which should be the last step, not the first step.

So this "wandering Palestra" path is kind of a loophole out of the lore constraints of the Palestra having only a few highly selective, highly competitive, high failure rate academies that involve surviving decades of elite training (in knowledge and skills that are barely defined even for NPCs), which happen to be inside an isolationist closed city where non-Faendryl are vanishingly rare by design.