[Official] Alteration Help

[clever junco]

But there are feasible reasons people might want the name removed or changed that have nothing to do with stealing credit.

[feral dragon]

it's still removing credit from the creator. Either find one with a name you like or learn to make them yourself.... plat migration aside

[modest matrix]

Or get over it and let people remove things from objects they own.

[clever junco]

I'm going to say this as nicely as possible.... I have done more work, spent more money and effort on my dagger then the absolutely awful person who just happened to forge it.

[mossy mist]

I imagine the vast majority of perfect weapons out there exist as the result of someone watching (or not 😬 ) a script

[vestal glade]

I have this guy watch my forging scripts

[wintry turtle]

I'm wondering why the recall on my staff no longer has the name of the person who did the final ensorcellment. It's a shame that that has disappeared for some reason, while the name of this awful person, and I don't know who it is but I trust you when you say they are awful, is still there.

[vestal glade]

I think the last time this was brought up, it was about the enchanter's mark, and it was buried into the ability. But that's all I recall about the issue, and it was dropped afaik

[feral dragon]

if the name bothered you that much, why'd you invest so much into it?

[vestal glade]

why are we trolling someone based on a simple request? If I want to do something to my item, that doesn't have a mechanical or even any impact on the game as a whole, but would impact my enjoyment of the item in any way, why does it matter to anyone else?

[feral dragon]

I'm not trolling anyone, I know how much went into the weapons I forged and, as I said, I'd be pretty upset if my name was removed from them

[vestal glade]

I guarantee you I don't go searching through my analyze, inspect, or recalls to find that one artisan that made me a perfect toothpick a decade and a half ago... but if I'm doing any of those things and Fartibart the crafter's name comes up, I'm going to be somewhat annoyed every time.

[clever junco]

If it's not your name on it, why do you care so much?

We can happily agree for me to never own a weapon you've forged and then you never have to think about it again. Deal?

[feral dragon]

that's a devil's deal. if I were to be ok with it happening to weapons others made but not ones I made, I'd be a hypocrite. no deal.

[clever junco]

Welp, I promise to never tell you if I get it done. 👍

[wintry turtle]

For some people, having a name on there is a memento. Silvean is the one who ensorcelled Lylia's staff for her, and it was a gift from him, so I value his name on there very much and am sorry it isn't easily visible via recall, even though I know it's his work. By the same token, a name might have equal resonance in a negative sense -- even if it didn't when it was first crafted -- and I can understand not wanting it on there.

I also understand how a crafter would not want to be erased, but someone who no longer plays doesn't have the same weight, I would think, as someone who does. Maybe a different case if both are still around, but if Riend's stuck waving around a weapon with Fartibart's name on it when that dude was just terrible, I think her presence speaks more than ol' Fartibart's absence.

[clever junco]

Was just terrible and also quit 10* years ago!

[wintry turtle]

Man, I don't miss Fartibart at all.

(I do not actually know the name on the real weapon, but I think "Fartibart" is a great stand-in name for anyone we don't like.)

[clever junco]

Fartibart is just the woooooooorst.
I would also be 100% down for being able to hide/show the folks who worked on a weapon.

[wintry turtle]

That's an interesting possibility: hiding the information doesn't mean it disappears, but you wouldn't have to see it every time you looked at it.

[vestal glade]

all my homies hate Fartibart

[fleet cloud]

Re: forgin' mark hate. Simple solution..? update dis https://gswiki.play.net/Forging_scriber so's da smith kin replace der name wit a teeny drawerin'. (Da cost fer da scriber, o' course, falls onna da customer!)

If'n da forge waddn't made outta bailin wire anna chewin' gum, I'd say dat jus giffin da smith da option to remoob der mark would be da best choice! (maybe it could be a "Forgin File" dat gits sold atta festibal...cause ye know... dey greedy.)

[vestal glade]

I'd be fine with that

[limber vale]

| Y | | diamond-tipped armor and weapon scriber

Are these rare now? Not much in use?

[hot flame]

So I could use some help doing an alter for my dark paladin. I just picked up the new energy wings and some flare gloves to go with my new project mace The Perfect mithril spikestar. So I need some help getting a theme down for starters.

[fringe rune]

Did you have a particular vibe in mind (dark paladin, so something scary evil? Or cool evil? Or more like classy evil?)? Any specific elements you wanted to include (relating to your diety, character's personal history, other themes you might have going on)?

[limber vale]

You glance down to see an ancient serrated-edged reaping scythe with shadowed silver runes carved into the darkened ivory haft in your right hand and nothing in your left hand.

this kind of evil??

[hot flame]

Yup evil paladin black reds dark colors have the living spider cloak backpack the ghule ring and fangs

[split dagger]

a sleek black widow-headed spikestar: Comprised entirely of black miithril, each facet of this weapon’s octagonal haft extends into the leg of a poised black widow. The huge arachnid, serving as the spikestar’s head, holds its chelicerae in a threat pose, as if ready to strike at any moment. Its abdomen, raised slightly above the haft, is emblazoned with a large ruby carved into the telltale hourglass. The striking realism of the piece is only furthered by the beast’s eyes: eight onyx gems polished into perfect black orbs.

(Could use z touch of polish but I just woke up!)

[fringe rune]

a {matte / polished} black mithril spikestar headed by a grinning skull

I'm of the long only no show school of alteration

[clever junco]

I prefer shows for weapons because getting/stowing can become kind of spamming if they're too long. I'm also absolutely horrible at weapon alters. ::cries at her many terrible weapons::

[hot flame]

I dig this!

[split dagger]

i'd be totally happy to help if you ever want a hand!

[clever junco]

I have been trying to come up with a short for my tanto that removes the sassafras metal from it and weirdly, that turned into a whole new design and it's... yeah it's awful.

[brittle coral]

What is sassafras metal?

[limber vale]

Frozen tea

[flat matrix]

Xazkruvrixis, I assume

[limber vale]

Do you have this ready to go as a copy paste, or can you spell this straight up?
The new names are a mouthful

[stiff rose]

you get used to it, with a little effort

[coral aspen]

Saying it is fun.

[limber vale]

How does one do this?

[coral aspen]

Zaz-CREW-vrix-sis

[stiff rose]

huh, I thought it was Zaz-crew-VRIX-is.

[fleet cloud]

Rong! <clears her throat> Ezackt-a-birus!

[coral aspen]

I may have put the emphasis in the wrong spot initially, but after saying it a few times, the CREW sticks out more.

[limber vale]

Yeah, that's a mouthful. But useful to know

[sour zenith]

Len-nee-KRAV-itz

[slender epoch]

I'm choosing to hear all these pronunciations in ET's "Be good Eliot" speech pattern.

[clever junco]

I gave up trying, and coming up with silly nicknames is fun.

Linoleum, ferngully, sassafras

[sour zenith]

Zoekravitz. Teddyruxpins.

[fringe rune]

I like Liminalium because I like the word liminal

[sour zenith]

I like Linoleum because it reminds me of the NOFX song

[slender epoch]

I am so glad I’m not alone there.

[sour zenith]

Supports my head. Gives me something to believe!

[hot flame]

I want a name with all silent letters.....

whats your name?....... I said whats your name........

“Pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis”
Pronounced: Bob

[vestal glade]

but those aren't silent letters... That's just Silicosis with extra steps.

[wintry turtle]

Fashion nerds might enjoy looking at this:
https://refashioningrenaissance.eu/reconstructing-everyday-fashion-1550-1650/

[low wyvern]

I got lucky and won the custom Planar Shift messaging. However, there's FOURTEEN different things I need to submit by March 5. Could use some help.

Any ideas on the rift's article, adjective, noun, long, and show descriptions? Even just snippets or ideas.

Any edits, big or small, to the first drafts below?

2) Initial Cast messaging seen by the room    
3) Cross-realm travel messaging seen by the caster.
4) Cross-realm travel messaging seen by the origin room if the caster is visible.
5)  Cross-realm travel messaging  seen by the origin room if the caster is not visible.
6)  Cross-realm travel messaging  seen by the destination room if the caster is visible.
7)  Cross-realm travel messaging  seen by the destination room if the caster is not visible.
8) Messaging seen by the caster when creating a rift for intra-realm teleports.
9)  Messaging  seen by others in the room  when creating a rift for intra-realm teleports. 
10) The rift's 15-character article
11) The rift's 15-character adjective
12) The rift's 15-character noun
13) The rift's long description (+describe examine field)
14) The rift's show description (description field)```

Examples can be found here: https://gswiki.play.net/Rumor_Woods/2024_advanced_spell_customizations#Planar_Shift_(740)

Some guidelines from Valyrka:
```The messaging should be no more than 2 - 3 shorter sentences or 1 - 2 longer ones, it should not spam the room with huge paragraphs. Also, anything in the messaging should be clearly an illusion conjured.```

Design Intent / Narrative Desires
```Ruskos Wigglebottom loves displaying his power, frequently calling himself "The greatest sorcerer in all the lands!" He's attention-seeking and quirky. He assumes people will be impressed with any show of magic.

Therefore, I'd like a deliberately choreographed necromantic spectacle designed to showcase his arrogant sense of mastery. Illusory zombies rise from the ground and, at a subtle (attempting to be hidden) cue from Ruskos, cause the forming portal to become unstable, sagging, rippling, or oozing with decay. The instability is intentional on Ruskos's part, a staged "misstep" meant to allow him to become the hero in his own production. He then performs a grand, choreographed corrective gesture that pulls the necromantic portal into its correct form. After it's formed, he does something approval-seeking from the room, hoping people noticed how powerful he is.

Desired tonal elements:

- Gaudy, lurid necromantic visuals (sagging, sloughing, dripping grave-light, etc)
- A deliberate but subtle cue (that he doesn't want people to see) that triggers the distortion
- A dramatic, choreographed correction to the portal. Maybe like Dr. Strange levels of drama?
- After he fixes it, a subtle, wordless approval-seeking from any spectators

Here's a starting place. I'm not sure if they're too long.

Cast:
As Ruskos completes his summoning circle with theatrical flourish, illusory zombies claw their way up from a shimmer of grave-soil and shuffle into uneven formation around it. They raise their hands toward the circle, and lurid violet-green grave-light begins to stream between their outstretched fingers.

Departure:
At a subtle motion from Ruskos, one zombie’s arm comes loose at the shoulder and drops with a hollow thud, breaking the stream of grave-light and causing the forming portal to sag and drip in wavering strands. With an expansive, choreographed sweep, Ruskos redirects the misrouted energy into a bold, open rupture, smooths his sleeves, and steps through as the projections collapse back into the soil.

Arrival:
Illusory zombies claw upward from flickering grave-soil and thrust their hands toward a tear in the air, feeding it streams of lurid grave-light. The flow falters briefly, causing the rupture to ripple and droop before tightening into a steady, open portal.```

[modest matrix]

Enter all of that into ChatGPT and then give it a theme and then customize what it gives you.

[low wyvern]

This was refined heavily with chatgpt already. I know some alters have specific length guidelines, I guess I'm struggling with mapping how these messages 1-14 actually appear in game

[modest matrix]

Oh sorry, I tend to stop reading halfway through a message

[low wyvern]

I know it's a chonker

[vestal glade]

Not gonna lie, my eyes crossed a little bit too.

[elder wind]

Best advice I can give, go through your text and every time there is a series, remove one from it. So, for example, 'The flow falters briefly, causing the rupture to ripple before tightening into a steady portal.' If you make cuts like that throughout, the text will keep the same sentiment, but will be much tighter (and shorter.)

Apart from hyphens, nothing says, 'I used an AI' more than repetitious series.

[lament aspen]

I put the messaging parts how they fit together to the wiki: https://gswiki.play.net/Custom_Planar_Shift

[low wyvern]

This helps a ton. Thank you!

[low wyvern]

Will do. Great advice

[wintry turtle]

Thank you for showing how this looks, and major congratulations on the win! Now, if I'm ever lucky enough to win one, I will have a road map. I also really like that advice from Itzel to eliminate one word from a series to keep the meaning while tightening it up. I have a habit of writing longer explanations because of that, and that's a great way to trim them.

[orchid cipher]

Ooohhh I can't wait to see that 🙂 Wishing you all the luck!

[fleet cloud]

• • -- -- ---!

[vestal glade]

.--- --- -.- . ... / --- -. / -.-- --- ..- --..-- / .. .----. -- / .. -. - --- / - .... .- - -.-.--

I need this stitched on a pair of shorts.

[split dagger]

i'd like to find a way to 'alter' my potato (in quotes because i think that it has to be 'wearing' something) to look like a potato seeking soil, where it sends out all those eldritch horror tentacles in every direction... any thoughts on how best to accomplish this?

[onyx wing]

a dirt-smudged long tentacled costume?

I assume that you can only do 15/15/15 for the thing

[slender epoch]

The clay molds for the dolls might also be a thought if you happen to have a fitting item to replicate doll sized that falls into the worn category. Like mine wears a stew pot.

Or another option would be find an item and work on getting it altered prior to using the mold… or maybe an altered forageable since those show as sprouting then lock the description in that way.

[lime jungle]

Seeking roots?

[split dagger]

oo i like that, thank you!

[fleet cloud]

fibrous white tendrils?
(maybe also giff it sum Lenticels! dat's da lil pimples ye see onna eager Tater.)

[split dagger]

combined suggestion from friends is: grasping ravel of etiolated roots (i learned two new words!)

i like all of these, too, it'll be a tough decision... thank you for the suggestions, they're all on my list

[limber vale]

Can someone whomst uses a shimmer trinket tell me how one would look?
Does it give some verbiage that one is wearing it?

He has a shimmery glow. <-- Or similar 

He is wearing (preset stored inventory).```

I probably should have asked this before buying 2 unlocked ones....

[lime jungle]

You don't see it, it's hidden along with the items if it's engaged.

It just saves what you are wearing, then you can add things and it shows what is saved.

So setup how you want to look, set it, then add other things you want to wear but not see.

[limber vale]

Outstanding. I was about to set this thing first time and realized it's... shimmery and did not want to be shimmery (or close).

'ppreciate that fast answer!

[stiff rose]

have you been introduced to the TUCK verb yet?

[limber vale]

.. go on

[stiff rose]

so certain inventory locations can be literaly TUCKed beneath other worn locations, like neckworn beneath chestworn (armor), or shoulder-worn (shield/quiver/satchel/etc) and backworn (backpack) beneath a cloakworn, effectively hiding it from public view.

all pinworns can also be tucked no matter what.

a few locations cannot be tucked, like outer garments, belts and beltworns, etc.

but it can massively reduce your apparent inventory.

to reveal something again, you just UNTUCK it

https://gswiki.play.net/Verb:TUCK/saved_posts shows what inventory spots can be tucked under what

[limber vale]

Pinworn??? Half my gear is pinworn

[stiff rose]

I realize this is in alteration help, however this directly impacts the overall appearance of what you are wearing, and you can tailor your alterations around this concept!

[limber vale]

Hey, this is alteration help for me. It should count

Time to tuck!

[limber vale]

I just chopped down my 20 odd items down to 7. (I'm weird about wanting a minimalist inventory, even if its counterintuitive)

Thanks again for the info.

[fringe rune]

In a game where there is just SO MUCH, less is oftentimes more IMO.

[limber vale]

Very! Coming back its worse. Everyone is a tome of scroll (not hating just not my preference).

Features. Items. Etc. Feels like the super neat things are just lost in scroll.

[fringe rune]

Agreed, it was a lot to come back to. Custom entrances, custom exits, pets, ambient messaging on items, it was just all so much. I admire the people who keep things concise.

[mossy mist]

I just hide my wall of text appearance with more walls of text flares

[limber vale]

I wish my base items were fancy, but they really aren't.
I blame some OCD variant.
Still, I do hate missing the neat things folks have in the forever scroll some have..

[limber vale]

WoT flares seems like an unintended push towards a free Flarestone Flourish

[mossy mist]

Leafiara and I have both (mostly jokingly but not entirely!) requested flares that basically do no damage but hit a lot of times on several occasions 😆

[limber vale]

When bigshot just spams show item to target in the hopes it will break critters attack code lulz

Sure way to break a GM NPC lolz

[warm steppe]

how to get banned from merchant sessions 101

[limber vale]

I am a model, upstanding citizen.

[fringe rune]

If so then why are you still awake at this hour?

Oh I guess it's not that late on the west coast

[limber vale]

Us elderly have insomnia. That doesn't make us any less good!

[fringe rune]

Vampires say that too. Curious.

[stiff rose]

now as a follow up to the TUCK verb...

pro tip for using a shimmer trinket. get a F2P alt to wear the items you want set on it, then have that alt set the trinket's appearance for whatever the outfit is. this does NOT work for attuned items, including if the trinket itself is attuned, but so long as you're not trying to use one of them in the outfit, it's the easiest way to set a trinket if you regularly wear a lot.

[fringe rune]

Oh, in that it's easier to put a ten piece outfit on a free alt over trying to remove and then put back on like 20 enhancives?

[clever junco]

Speaking from experience as someone who accidentally attuned one of her shimmer trinkets: Yes.

[proud sonnet]

…samesies. I have shimmer trinket attunement regret. 😭

It does make me wish that we could pay something to un-attune items that are worth under a certain amount. I get it for big gear items. But like stuff under 25k or something.

[clever junco]

Charge that 25% + another fee. I'd consider it.

[split dagger]

oh that's an awesome idea... i've been using ;foreach, but i like the idea of having a mannequin alt, too

[vestal glade]

I could see it being a portion of the current sale value of the item. So if you got something for 25% off, you would pay %over full value to un-attune it. The only real issue I see is trading items from account to account prior to this occuring and abusing the system that way.

[tacit ermine]

I, too, use my F2P alt to set my shimmer trinket. It was one of the best suggestions I ever heard.

[vestal glade]

I am not a shimmer trinket enjoyer, but I respect the ingenuity involved.

[clever junco]

At this point, if I'm not wearing one and I'm out hunting, I look like a 1996 empath.

[limber vale]

Hey I know that reference!!

[limber vale]

That does sound very, very clever. Few issues for me.
A) both trinkets are attuned
B) I broke 2 f2p accounts. With kegs.

[warm steppe]

but are you wearing a bandana?

[clever junco]

None of my bandanas are pretty enough.

[warm steppe]

if you wear enough of them nobody will know the difference!

it has a proven track record

[mossy mist]

https://tenor.com/view/i-like-turtles-zombie-kid-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-tortoise-tortuga-gif-16340543

tap my band
You tap a violet bandana that you are wearing.
You glance down to see a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff in
your right hand and nothing in your left hand.

[clever junco]

I feel like that's on par with Lorcas trying to sell me on wearing burlap

[grim kelp]

What's wrong with burlap? 10/10 crocodiles recommend it for durability.

Alek (the crocodile) currently has a silt-stained gunny sack and a mud-spattered hemp tunic cinched with creeper vines, among other things. It works for him.

[clever junco]

If you supply a glowing potion for an alteration, are you restricted to only using the word glowing... or can you use it to make something lambent or -limned?

[lament aspen]

It is restricted to whatever the additive is, glowing, sparkling, radiant, whatever, and must describe a color. Lambent is not one of the alchemy dye additive adjectives

[clever junco]

That feels... restrictive, but at least it means I don't have to worry about that anymore. Thank you.

[long niche]

So, technically speaking, it used to be that you were supposed to supply it with a dye already added (so that it'd be a vial of glowing red dye, for example), and we were only supposed to use it to color something "glowing red" (or some other shade of red), just like if you used that vial of dye to dye something.

Now we let you just bring the additive to make it a little less tedious, but it still has to adhere to the rules of the dye. That's why it seems restrictive, but really it's just standard dye rules.

[clever junco]

We need more "glowing" dye types!

[vestal glade]

instructions unclear, dye added to eyes and now I can't see.

[warm steppe]

but you have glowing eyes now!

was it worth it?

[vestal glade]

I CAN'T TELL!

https://tenor.com/view/car-gif-26308278

[limber vale]

FaceTime Marstreforn and ask

[proud sonnet]

who was it that really liked to be asked to do glowing red eyes on people as custom features? hmmm

[coral aspen]

https://tenor.com/view/not-today-satan-not-today-satan-no-gif-12620274

[long niche]

Every GM

[proud sonnet]

Yes but only one of them will punch me at SimuCon

[long niche]

Well. I'm sure more could.

[proud sonnet]

... OK let's not give any angry mobs any ideas tho... 👀

[long niche]

I am an instigator.

[proud sonnet]

mis-processed message, now picturing as a typing alligator

[vestal glade]

I feel like ChatGPT really captured my feelings on the matter.

[vapid quail]

I can...

[proud sonnet]

.... Dangit Casil....

[split dagger]

so wait, glowing red eyes are out?

i couldn't find one with glowing red eyes, so this fella will have to suffice

does anyone know whether Whax costumes were changed to prevent alteration? i was under the impression they were the only option for potatoes, but i thought they could be altered -- but when i tried this evening, it has a message in the ANALYZE that it can't be changed

The creator has also provided the following information:

This is a doll accessory from Delirium Manor!  To use, hold an accessory in your right hand, a (glued/cored) doll in your left hand, and PUSH <accessory>.  Once an accessory is placed on your doll, it can be overwritten with another item of the same accessory type, but not removed.  Only one item is allowed for each area.  This item's type is: CHEST

REGISTER your accessory items individually, as they will not register with the doll.

This leathery zombie costume cannot be altered or used as alter fodder.

When placed on a doll, it will look like: an asymmetric leathery zombie costume

You get no sense of whether or not the costume may be further lightened.```

[coral aspen]

The whax doll accessories can't be altered. There are other items that let you copy an item you are holding to turn it into a whax doll accessory, but they cannot be altered after the fact, either.

[split dagger]

aahh, thanks Xera -- so i'd need to alter something into X, get the copier item to turn it into a Whax accessory, and then use that?

ohh, i see, square molds -- i have a bunch of those somewhere!

[vestal glade]

This is how we lose Starsworn, rocks fell and he died.

[split dagger]

hey, i'm a hoarder in the process of reforming... you can help save me by buying things!

[vestal glade]

bold of you to assume I am not also a hoarder.

[split dagger]

perhaps an unreformed one who would like to, say, buy some things? 😄

[vestal glade]

alas, the one thing I don't hoard, is cash

[split dagger]

beggars hawking to beggars, what have we come to?

[fleet cloud]

Ammatoor.

[low wyvern]

man, I forgot about these
a spiraling tapered faewood runestaff capped with a huge prancing doughnut
an enruned zorchar-shod runestaff carved from top to bottom with comical prancing pastries

[low wyvern]

they're so beautiful

[lament aspen]

How could you forget those beauties

[limber vale]

Because I was perusing changing gear (Yes its gear not outfit changing!!!) before the Fool's Day showed; or perhaps inspired by it..

Can we please please get overalls as over-the-front worn to layer over shirts/chest armor?

Let me alter these existing OTF container vests/harnesses/waistcoats/etc into overalls.

Am willing to limit it to restrict any scripts that make no sense (tgara maybe? Too early for my brain to remember).

But for the luvahallthethings overalls go over shirts and the like. Considering all the other myriad options the fancy crowd has, surely the coding nudge, and alter rules,
can be some forgiving.

[brittle coral]

Unfortunately, overalls are outside our etymology zone.

[vestal glade]

you can have a smock, and like it.

[onyx wing]

OOo some nice muck over here.

[limber vale]

Do they not still get released? Or has that changed since I've been away?
Not arguing, just curious. Graewood Farm was one of my favorite events before I left.

Follow-up: altering still is alright (grandfather rules etc)? Just not moving making new ones?

[limber vale]

Smock you

[brittle coral]

I'm surprised overalls were released on the past, to be honest, I'd have to check. Likely, a merchant would deny you.

[limber vale]

||I just got called geriatric, by a fellow geriatric of all things , but I swear you were justa GM that rough era?||

Deny even an alter at all to an existing set? Or creating new ones?

Please don't let the date be causing this response for #1...

[coral aspen]

This should be covered under ALTER 9(?) Transcending descriptions.

[flat matrix]

ALTER 9 would apply, so as long as it was worn in a spot that made sense for overalls, we could alter, but it would be up to the merchant to determine if they were comfortable working on it.

[limber vale]

Damn. A double response. I appreciate easing my worries.
I do defer to the merchant of course whether they will alter whatnot overalls, or leg stuff into overalls; I try to be poli

Thanks yalls two

(I cannot guarantee I won't raise the OTF overalls in future, politely and respectfully of course)

[flat matrix]

We won't alter anything into overalls.

If you have existing overalls and just want to do a look change but maintain the noun 'overalls,' we can do that per Alter 9, essentially.

[limber vale]

Am still sad no pants into overalls. But least I can alter the existing, yes.

[prisma plover]

Don't feel bad, I've asked tons of GMs to alter a belt into a codpiece... which would be in genre.

[limber vale]

Well. While I too have asked, way back, that seems to be the 'spurs' prohibition still.

I'm used to getting denied. I don't mind at this point. I also never tried arguing so I don't waste time for folks after me

Could always find that 1 that existed eons ago....

Unless that eventually got confiscated/dead accounted

[prisma plover]

Yeah never understood arguing, like the GM is suddenly going to be convinced "you're right! Describing his hams as dummy double thicc in the pants" is just a statement of fact and not the garment making you feel something

[limber vale]

Seriously. It's not only insulting to the GM but rude to the other players.

I politely ask once again, and provide an example if I have, and if no?
Welps thats how the ball rolls.

I won't always agree but wasting everyone's time does literally nothing

[lament aspen]

Spurs are available off the shelf at Rumor Woods

https://gswiki.play.net/KnightWear_spurs

Codpiece is acceptable as part of an alteration of an appropriate item, but not as a standalone item. There are some that were ported from plat.

[limber vale]

Ah, I had heard that they were mass available (and was definitely surprised).

[lament aspen]

Knights as a whole are more available via the title system and via mounts and stuff

[limber vale]

A set of blue canvas overalls crudely equipped with a fashioned codpiece?

[lament aspen]

The world, she is ever changing

I am not personally putting my name on that

[limber vale]

Probably my first alter shock upon return. I dk fondly remember bugging various SG knights to make me honary member just to get spurs (for all the jokes)

[limber vale]

So you're saying you would put your name on a different codpiece?

Hope springs eternal

Sadie scrolls here i come!

Yes. Tral needs a codpiece too

Join the club my scruffy friend

[slender epoch]

Made from real cod

[limber vale]

Yed

[prisma plover]

There could honestly be no other answer

[limber vale]

Stink and all

Ez script the fish rot smell and some other verb traps

[prisma plover]

Leave the head of the cod intact so its lifeless eyes stare back as you stare at it

[limber vale]

Jesus wept

You're so right

[slender epoch]

Like a Big Mouth Billy Bass

[limber vale]

Loooooo

I can hear, from here, the GM group dms using various bad words as we type here

[lament aspen]

"hey it's been 7 weeks, why is my Sadie scroll still marked new"

[limber vale]

SEND Hi Sadie. I was just checking if my fish codpiece has been looked at?"

[slender epoch]

Is this a codpiece made FROM a fish or FOR a fish. Please use REPORT to reply.

[limber vale]

https://tenor.com/view/phineas-and-ferb-i-know-what-were-gonna-do-today-i-know-what-were-going-to-do-today-gif-27359053

[prisma plover]

REPORT: Yes.

[limber vale]

https://tenor.com/view/lightining-bolt-dungeons-and-dragons-d20-dice-magical-gif-12155289

[lament aspen]

You can't report one word replies

[slender epoch]

REPORT must be more than one word.

[limber vale]

Loo

[slender epoch]

(I've tried the same)

[lament aspen]

Most always it was an error

Just people mistyping ;repo

[prisma plover]

REPORT the response to your question is yes.

[limber vale]

SEND Yes. Its the one with the 'just keep swimming' show

[prisma plover]

The check on report has saved me from making some really odd ;repo mistakes

[mossy mist]

;alias add --global repo=;repo

[limber vale]

Sissies. I brave that typo like a real one

Just kidding Vanah, et all. Don't hurt me!

||on-topic though... still we have a shot at a codpiece!!!1!!!!

Edit: personally signed by Vanah!||

[prisma plover]

I do have an actual alteration i need some help wording. I have a Halfling Finger toothpick. I want to give it a show thats a bit more macabre. Like the fingernail is jagged from chewing, or the finger tip is pruned from being constantly moist. Any ideas?

[limber vale]

Something something Carefully crafted from use something, seems appropriate

Wait. Is this a fingernail? Or a new thing I'm unfamiliar with?
I shall wiki

[prisma plover]

Its a severed halfling finger altered from a toothpick

[limber vale]

Oh. An actual toothpick

My suggestion still kinda works. Just needs more macabre.

[prisma plover]

I tried to go the other way but was easier to get a toothpick changed into a halfling finger than it was to get a halfling finger for fodder

[limber vale]

Lel

Typical-wellnvm

[prisma plover]

I would love to get some gore to drip out the end when I pick my teeth with it

[limber vale]

Maybe add whatever food particles(I assume eaten hobbits and such), blood. Bits of bone. Whatnot

Could also add a handwrap with blood on it too. And add how its been designed as a tool of hygiene

[prisma plover]

But right now something like " the protruding bone has been sharpened to aid in dental care" or "the skin at the base of the finger starts put dried but gets more supple and moist towards the well used nail"

Darphin already gets some side eyes chewing on a severed finger.. just want to lean into it

[limber vale]

Turn it into a chopstick and get the sidest of eyes

Loooo

[limber vale]

See. Question. Is it bone? Are you using the tip of the skeletal finger? Or is there a nail there and some fleshy bits?

[prisma plover]

So currently it just says "severed halfling finger" so in my mind its fairly fleshy, otherwise it wouldnt be severed.. just a finger bone

And im more into adding a show than changing the short description

[limber vale]

Then, yeah. I'd say it had a nail. So a carefully sharpened nail with bits of flesh, chunks of body parts, and drippy blood. Add some kinda handle/wrap-esque part to further that bloody macabre and you're golden

[prisma plover]

If i change the short description, it would be to add "decaying " or "bloody"

[prisma plover]

Thats where im at on it, just cant find the words I want or even the proper direction to give the merchant before saying "have fun". Feels like I should take it to Hoorne.

[limber vale]

Bro is gonna cut a halfing giving you the finger down your cheek instead

First person comes to mind is Lysistra. But I'm old and stuck in the 90s

[fringe rune]

Banking some ideas for clockwork alterations:

1. Is there an in-universe equivalent to Côtes de Genève / Geneva stripes?

2. Would there be any issues with the term snailing / snail finish to describe gears and plates? This one seems ok since it doesn't refer to a OOC proper noun and snails exist in-universe.

[vestal glade]

are you referring to the finish used inside a watch on the train of wheels/casement?

[fringe rune]

Yes, as potential details / embellishment for clockwork and gear alters

[vestal glade]

I'm not sure that technique is old enough in this instance. I'm honestly surprised the steampunk aesthetic made the cut tbh.

[hasty berry]

I have a cloak-worn item made of krolvin skin (inspects as an organic material), can I use that as alter fodder to change another cloak-worn item to krolvin skin?

[modest matrix]

Not usually, because the other cloak probably isn't organic material.

[vestal glade]

if you don't wash it long enough, does that change things?

[onyx wing]

you might be able to do something like krolvin skin-lined cloak

... she said... late to the party

[hasty berry]

Hmm even though the alter fodder in this case would be an actual krolvin skin cloak?

Basically I want to get a resistance cloak from RW but not lose what I’m already using

[flat matrix]

Unless there are restrictions from a script, having a creature skin for a cloak is probably fine (see ALTER 42): - Mythical huntable in-game creatures that are NOT generally skinnable (such as krolvin, gremlocks, etc.): if you are able to supply the body part, you may add these into alterations. The alter wording must always indicate the exact creature name, and only the part that you are supplying can be used (i.e. you cannot supply an ear and have it turned into a hand -- it will remain an ear). Generally these parts are only attainable via special merchants. Though not huntable, sea thrak hides/parts fall under this category. In this case, I would say you are essentially supplying the skin. However, it is going to be up to the merchant if they want to work with skin like that.

[lament aspen]

Not even Zendaya can make a skin suit look good

[vestal glade]

thanks, I hate it.

[clever junco]

https://tenor.com/view/lady-gaga-meat-dress-gif-20894092

meat adjacent

OK Vanah, flexing your admin gif posting

[tacit ermine]

I think that's a static image, not a gif

[clever junco]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh leave me be in my delusion

[vestal glade]

yeah, don't break her immersion

[clever junco]

Hi there! I had a quick question about how spiders are handled for alters outside of EG. Are they generally treated as multiple parts (base and individual sides), or should the full spider be submitted/completed together? I just want to be sure I am following the intended process and not telling folks incorrect info!

[vestal glade]

excellent question

[clever junco]

I've always been under the impression the base spider needs to be done whenever you change the the styles on it or it'll conflict with the original version of itself when you try and store it.

But maybe it doesn't? I don't know. ><

[stiff rose]

That's probably only an issue if you're trying to store two spiders with identical apperances in the same House of Spider.

[clever junco]

Possibly.

[stiff rose]

But as for what can be altered/customized at a given merchant session, it's probably up to the merchant.

[clever junco]

Also probably, but there's also usually a baseline of what to expect... and if it differs from what we've been expecting since EG, it seems like something to ask for clarification on.

Especially when multiple barbies are confused about it. Always worth asking. 🙂

[vestal glade]

https://tenor.com/view/vivian-vivian-amorim-multishow-bbb-deboche-gif-16200018

[warm steppe]

What needs to happen to alter an item and what can be done as a GALD service may not align either. If the spider can be altered prior to the customizations and still work then you would treat the alteration of the spider itself as one service and the customizations as a different service. Not an all-in-one.

[clever junco]

I guess the question remains, do spiders with altered sides need to have a different base? If not, it doesn't seem worthwhile to waste a GALD spot on altering the base of something if it has no actual effect on using it.

The only really important part of the spiders, for users, is the sides on it... not what it looks like.

[brittle coral]

The box only changes the 15/15/15

er checks

I'm fairly certain a base alteration of the 15/15/15 is part of the updating of the 'sides'

I haven't answered today because I don't have access to it from Day Job

[clever junco]

You're fine, work is work is work is ugggggh work.

Yeah, so we're trying to figure it out because there are technically two of the same base-looking spiders that have different sides and we think they both go in the box at the same time... (checking on this if I can ((haha I cannot because I don't have the original and new version of the one spider with the same naaaaaaaaaaaame)) )

But I know you cannot put two of the exact same spiders in the box

>
You already have this spider within an octagonal ebonwood shadow box.  Try to add a different kind.```

[verbal swan]

...would you like me to check?

[clever junco]

If you have them, would you mind?

[verbal swan]

You can't put two of the exact same spider in a spiderhouse/box. You can stack two of the exact same spider in a bag of holding (which is actually how I store extras for alterations). I will check the same short/different sides one. Hang on. Might take a few.

[clever junco]

I think that specific spider is "a molded suede beige jumping spider"

There's two variations of that spider.

Or were.

[verbal swan]

Spider Number 60 - a molded suede beige jumping spider can provide the following +long designs:
(item base) embossed with concentric rings of flower petals
(item base) embossed with the spiral shell of a nautilus
(item base) tooled with mirrored profiles of songbirds
Spider Number 61 - a molded suede beige jumping spider can provide the following +long designs:
(item base) embossed with curling ivy leaves
(item base) tooled with a pattern of wild rose blossoms
(item base) raised with a design of a crouched hare

[clever junco]

I... I am missing that second one
But do they both go in the shadow box?

[verbal swan]

Spider Number 79 - a molded suede beige jumping spider can provide the following +long designs:
(item base) embossed with curling ivy leaves
(item base) tooled with a pattern of wild rose blossoms
(item base) raised with a design of a crouched hare
Spider Number 80 - a molded suede beige jumping spider can provide the following +long designs:
(item base) embossed with concentric rings of flower petals
(item base) embossed with the spiral shell of a nautilus
(item base) tooled with mirrored profiles of songbirds
To arrange for one of these spiders to work for you, WHISPER to the box the spider # you desire.

...where are you

[clever junco]

You have thrown my entire world into chaos. How do those both go in but other ones do not?!

I am in a glass case of emotion.

[verbal swan]

...aside from that?

in game.

[clever junco]

Oh uh, IMT but I can pop to FWI if you neeed something!

[verbal swan]

meet me in GC?

[clever junco]

o7

https://tenor.com/view/mariah-carey-her-mariah-carey-hero-that-a-hero-lies-in-you-hero-gif-5714695763093298649

That gif loaded in my heart, fyi ❤️ thank you so much!

[lament aspen]

Can you dye them

[stiff rose]

can you spider alter them 🤔

spiderception

[vestal glade]

https://tenor.com/view/yep-yup-aliens-agree-yes-gif-9432466

alter boooooook?

[clever junco]

You pour a few test drops of your argent dye on your rose gold spider, but they roll right off the surface without leaving a mark!  Apparently the spider can't be dyed.```

An enameled rose gold spider cannot be customized using the shadow box.  If after reviewing the alteration rules contained in ANALYZE you believe this script should be granted an exception, please BUG spider and ask for it to be reviewed with box.
If after reviewing the alteration rules contained in ANALYZE you believe this script should be granted an exception, please BUG spider and ask for it to be reviewed with box.```

An enameled rose gold spider cannot be customized using the order book.  The order book does not work on items with this noun.```

So no dyeing, no spiderfication, no alter booking.

[vestal glade]

that was more for Vanah

[clever junco]

Listen.

[gloomy ibex]

Only way for me so far was GALD my spider. FYI metal spiders are a great alternative for utensil alterations. Wood for chopsticks.

[fringe rune]

When altering in a material that has an in-game language name and a more English parseable one, which do you generally prefer (and why if you’re willing to share)? Examples being ataela / cloudsilk and taessaet/ rosesilk.

If you were making two pieces in the same material, would you use the same name for both or would you do one of each?

For context, I’m looking to do an ataela / cloudsilk sash and duster for my Sylvankind character and am conflicted on which direction I should go.

[limber vale]

How Sylvan is the character?

Probably what I'd use to judge.

[fringe rune]

Not very, didn’t grow up in Yuriqen and is semi disconnected from Sylvan culture in the way a lot of 1.5 / 2 gen immigrants are. You’d go with cloudsilk in this instance?

[limber vale]

I would. It gives a connection without the 'all-in Sylvan' impression. IMHO

She knows more

(person typing I mean. Trust her more)

[timber fiber]

FWIW, I tend to use the cultural word if my PC is of that culture and the alternative if my character isn't - if that makes sense

So, in your case, identifying as a not-very sylvan, I would go with cloudsilk

[fringe rune]

This makes sense, I appreciate the perspective and thank both of you for sharing it.

[knotty stone]

I agree with what people have mentioned already. I just wanted to point out that Yuriqen was sealed over 5000 years ago, and the average sylvan is considered extremely old by just 1500 years. It would be extraordinarily rare for anyone alive to have come from Yuriqen, and they'd likely encounter some healthy skepticism if they claim to be from there.

[limber vale]

say :offhand Yer a kin!

[modest matrix]

I just choose the word I like better and/or can identify more easily.

ataela would make me have to google it too often to remember what it is

[fringe rune]

Oh I did not realize that none of the Sylvan PCs could come from Yuriqen without big backstory shenanigans.

[timber fiber]

I would also add that I have occasionally gone with the shorter word if I'm struggling to work within the 15/15/15 limitations.

[limber vale]

QotD:
Magp13 shall tell us the elaborate Yuriqen origins that validate their existance and claims. Illustrations, visuals and illusionary diagrams shall be required.
Let the shenanigans Commense

(Rohese told me to)

[knotty stone]

Yeah, no worries! Yuriqen figures in so much during discussions about sylvan things that it's easy to think it's still accessible or only closed recently.

[fringe rune]

HEY hold on a second here I specifically said that my character DIDN'T come from Yuriqen, and then Nilandia came in and went "That's the real life equivalent of saying you didn't come from Mesopotamia, genius" (in a very kind and polite way of course, I'm only exaggerating here for humorous effect). What I said was perfectly valid, the clarification just wasn't necessary given that it's not something that's possible. 😂

[timber fiber]

Don't worry, I've put him on the naughty step

[knotty stone]

It's been quite some time since I've asked, but what is the policy for using the terminology for parts of a katana? This would be for terms such as tsuba, tsuka, and kashira.

[fleet cloud]

Parts issa parts. If'n dat's wot dey call'd dat's wot dey call'd. Dey kint objeckt since da whole issa still a thing.

[warm pilot]

Could really use some help turning this long coat into text.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/4362701470/victorian-gothic-vampire-coat-with-red?ls=s&ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=1800s+long+coat&ref=sr_gallery-2-3&pro=1&frs=1&content_source=e616c5f4-1d9c-47c4-9552-20dfbf7f657f%253ALTcf8da79216794dc9f998f6c3cfaf67ead794d622&organic_search_click=1&logging_key=e616c5f4-1d9c-47c4-9552-20dfbf7f657f%3ALTcf8da79216794dc9f998f6c3cfaf67ead794d622

[split dagger]

I like how the belt teleported to the outside in the second image… wonder what it actually looks like! Howabout something like:

a fitted black formal longcoat embroidered with crimson flora

[timber fiber]

Quick and dirty long and base/show versions to get you started:
a crimson-on-black leather longcoat trimmed in floral embroidery
an open-front,black leather,longcoat SHOW: Tailored from matte black leather, the longcoat tapers from wide shoulders to create a narrow silhouette. Crimson-threaded vines follow the line of the open front on either side, where two sets of three brass buttons serve as mere adornments. Similar embroidery also trims the wide lapels adding definition and finish to a stylish garment.

[limber vale]

Even quick and dirty, yours are amazing.
Just sayin.

[warm pilot]

Oh wow. I am totally going to use this.

[neon spindle]

what’s the consensus for “imperial” and “small” on stuff.. cause it really seems like we’re going back to “even if it’s allowed, it’s up to if the person wants to do it or not” type of rule..

[flat matrix]

imperial as an adjective is not typically allowed because it begs the question "what empire is it from"

(yes, there are old examples extant, but we should not be making new things with it unless it's specifically scripted to call it out as allowable, which I don't know of any script out there for that)

Small can be allowable, but a lot will depend on context, and again, if a merchant does not feel comfortable, they are within their rights to decline on areas that may be more grey.

[neon spindle]

just for reference, if any.. what race/culture(?) have or had empires that would possibly be acceptable in proper.. use?

without me having to dig in the wiki on my phone at work lol

[split dagger]

hmm, good question... this comes to mind: https://gswiki.play.net/Turamzzyrian_Empire, and https://gswiki.play.net/Prestige_and_Prejudice_in_the_Empire_-_On_Imperial_Rank_and_Titles

[warm steppe]

Imperial is too vague. There are specific cultures within empires that might make more sense… like Hendorian or Selanthian…

It is generally accepted that if it doesn’t specify then it’s the common variety. There nothing that would likely distinguish a normal broadsword vs one from the human empire at large. A more specific regional reference would likely be noticed as different.

[twin siren]

Blade geometry as well as hilt and pommel shapes. Of course we don't know the aesthetics of different culture's weaponry to be able to describe them.

[clever junco]

Is there a rule against altering rare materials into gems?

I have a bunch of agita and agates that are alter fodder but don't work in joola/veola/DTH/CC but I'd love for them to be.

[brittle coral]

Agita's can't be drilled, so that's likely why they aren't... but usually certain Erithi Agates and Agitas are considered rare

So I would say, if you have the alter fodder, you should be okay??

[lament aspen]

Even not these specific gems, altering gems generally can be tricky. Each gem treasure drop is a specific thing. It can be used for specific formulas in alchemy. If we just alter one and don't clear that field, then it's still a yellow sapphire or whatever underneath. We have a general "shop gemstone" now that we didn't have when those agates and stuff were originally sold that would be the best option

But if agita can't be drilled, releasing it as a gemstone would be tricky because lots of systems then let you carve and stuff

If you asked me as a merchant, I would probably say no because I am not familiar enough with all the rules to know the downstream impacts. If you asked someone who is more familiar and they thought all the gem systems are okay, then that'd be different

[clever junco]

I absolutely get the restrictions! They make sense, especially for agitas. I know you can't sell gems that have been caboodled, but I'm unsure if you can use them for things like alchemy still.

But also... being able to do things like vergless, amethreyn, ithaenil... would those be a possibility? To add versatility to what we can put into our stuffs (like panes currently do, just you can't do them with like Joola, just cc/dth/veola atm).

[lament aspen]

There are a lot of things that were released as "props" just meaning that they are unscripted, not special, roleplay things. So if you have the older alter fodder that is just a prop, it's not broken, it just isn't set up to work on any of the systems that gemstones or alter fodder items do now

[clever junco]

I have a crazy amount of those. LOL
It would be amazing if there was an easy way to convert from old to new, but that's one of those pipe dreams.

I need to sit down and figure out which of my alter fodder do and don't work, and make a list of what I'd like to alter and just... I guess try and see if someone's willing to do it.

I think i had a regular green jade altered into a forest one using alter fodder, then immediately caboodled it.

[lament aspen]

I like that idea of glass gemstones but I don't know.

[clever junco]

EG is still six months away waggles eyebrows

I think, on the player side, there would be a bit of excitement around being able to use the different glass materials interchangeably in our gem stuffs... but also in crafting as a whole.

Like being able to create smelter items you could add lyshaelyn to, or beading cobbled shoes with vergless.

The brain starts getting all kinds of "ooooooo" at the possibilities. 🙂

BUT, my intent here, is just to have some different gem/glass options to use between my joolas and veolas 🙂

[lament aspen]

I could add alter fodder items generally as misc side, but then you'd get pants and sandals in there too. Actually and any treasure drop since that misunderstanding resulted in all feeder drops being alter fodder

I dunno if it still does that post 2026 treasure update?

[clever junco]

I haven't seen it, but I also haven't seen one of those special boxes in forever.

[knotty stone]

I've asked about altering a gem object into ithaenil, but was told they didn't want to do it because ithaenil is a glass and not a gem

[clever junco]

I mean, people looking at a veola/cc/dth/joola are not wondering if the item in it is a gem or not. It's really just meant to be a means to an end.

[lament aspen]

If you want it on the gemstone side though, it has to be a gemstone, and it has to be something that is okay to work in all the systems that use gemstones. There are a bunch of other sides if you wanted to use your alter fodder to make a flower or a thorn or something that will go on one of the other sides

[clever junco]

I think adding alter fodder to the misc side for veola/cc/dth is a great compromise.

Unfortunately, Joola only allows for gems which is mostly what I was thinking to use them for.

[stiff rose]

As someone who apparently did get a gem altered into arathiel a few years ago, specifically to use with both Joolas and Veolas, but I guess it was okay then and no longer is.. I completely understand the ask and support any options to allow for a way to acquire "store gemstone" versions of glass. That glass gemstone base for them mentioned earlier sounds like a possible solution. Having a shop with just those glass "gems" at a venue would be a nice way to offer it as an option for those who want them as a gem-side decoration.

Although if they do work with the misc side as items marked as fodder, I am okay with that solution, too. It does mean they won't work with Joolas.

[lament aspen]

Cobbling settings work too, that's another alteration option for the alter fodder

[clever junco]

I always forget about cobbling settings. ><

[stiff rose]

I didn't realize that about settings, very cool!

[clever junco]

I think we need some CC earrings! also a CC EG shop!

[lament aspen]

maybe not settings. Cobbling Clasps and Buckles work in Creative Coture

[vestal glade]

too much alliteration going on

[lament aspen]

Actually looking at it, items where the noun is agita should work on the gemstone side of Veola etc. It should be taking it

[clever junco]

This may be a "there are two types of agitas that look exactly the same and one goes in the fodder-inator and the other goes in ferronininnnares" thing. Let me check real quick ... because I do have some that work and that might be the difference.

[vestal glade]

this is why you can't have nice things

[lament aspen]

It should be working where the noun is "agita"

[clever junco]

Agita fodder DOES work... it's the ones sold at RW (with the exact same description) that don't =p

(much confusion for smol brains)

It does not take snow jade or agates (for what it's worth)

[gloomy ibex]

Can the basketifier voucher to add Saucers have an altered saucer - side dish - small plate - trencher?

[near crag]

Ok, I don't want to sound whingy, but I'm going to ask. My fiance' got denied 'reseda' as a colour, even denied reseda green. Why is this a no no, considering it's a plant, and we have TONS of plant colours (and other colours that shouldn't be allowed but I'll try and focus here...) and also.... I have this: hip-length tailored linen tunic dyed a rich reseda hue

[lament aspen]

Looking at Google, the term as a color first showed up in 1874, so might just be too late for our time period. Kind of like boysenberry, yes it's a plant and has a color but it's too modern

[near crag]

But... ok, I honestly don't want to argue... but there are so many colours that are allowed that are far later than 1874.... also, boysenberry is definitely ig

[lament aspen]

QC has denied those two colors, reseda and boysenberry, so per ALTER 9 even if they exist or slip through, new items using those terms may not be permitted

[near crag]

What about colours like baby blue, cotton candy pink, etc...

Ugh, sorry, I'm back on my hill to die on

[lament aspen]

I'm not QC, I wasn't your merchant, just letting you know

[near crag]

Oh, it wasn't me, but I was the one who suggested the colour. Thanks, though.

[lament aspen]

If I do get a word I don't know, I Google it to see what it is, and then Google it to see when it's from, then look on the player and GM wiki to see if and how it's appeared before

[near crag]

I was allowed Reseda because they said it was a plant

It's just odd to now hear that it's denied.

[lament aspen]

If I see it's been denied, I'll deny it. If I see if it's been used a bunch, I'll use it. If I don't see it on either wiki, I will deny it in the moment and submit a QC request, but those can take months, not during the merchant session

Reseda is a genus not a plant

[near crag]

Well, I feel it's still more in theme than cotton candy pink, but that's just a me thing, I guess. Sorry, this is why you guys don't like me... 🤣

[lament aspen]

If it's denied and you have a good argument I can take it to QC, but again that can take months, not in the moment

[near crag]

On the QC note, do we actually ever get notified if QC allows it? Or is it just a guess and try again type thing?

[lament aspen]

Nope

I don't get told either if it makes it better or worse

[near crag]

lol I'm not sure

[flat matrix]

Reseda has already been reviewed in the past and is denied. I'm guessing it is because the use of "reseda green" probably was more modern. And while it is a plant, from what I can tell, we've used its other name, mignonette before.

[warm steppe]

I would also wonder how it is unique as a shade of green when many other plants would apply and be more well known

[near crag]

Mignonette sounds like it would be denied, and I honestly never tried that, because I figured it sounded too 'french'

[warm steppe]

The entire “——“ color debacle is a bit odd to me. Things in nature don’t really have their own unique hues.

[near crag]

Ok, I understand that. But then, how many people know what sinopia, pavonated, etc are?

Those are allowed

[limber vale]

Womens fashion exists for funny words

[warm steppe]

Which is the odd part of it, to me.

[limber vale]

5b items exist

[warm steppe]

The fact any are allowed

[near crag]

I'm clutching my pearls right now

[limber vale]

Does leeway for alter rules need to be that stringent in 2026?

[warm steppe]

Not my decision. I just think it is an odd way to describe something

[limber vale]

Sorry if im distracting from the hill

[flat matrix]

I only see it used once, but we'll run mignonette through the review process

[near crag]

Ok, with that logic, though.... why do we need 10+ variations of 'sword'? Why not just sword?

[warm steppe]

Because those are unique culturally and have specific features. They aren’t just a shade of a color

[near crag]

Some colours are culturally specific, though

They likely aren't allowed in GS, but they exist

[flat matrix]

we're in a text-based game and we're almost all word freaks...and having lots of different colours and styles and such are awesome to have

[limber vale]

I'll just say xyxyzyzxyyxdzzz metal exist and see myself out

[tidal trench]

That’s a road to Las Vegas bro. Not a metal

[mossy mist]

Err, what? Like 98% of every color palate I've ever looked at (when seeking inspiration for alternatives to the standard) is named after natural things

That is in fact how human describe most colors - what thing in nature they are represented by

[limber vale]

Same road is where it was developed, is my guess. Fear and loathing and xycyxyxyxy...

Time for an all parakeet outfit

[near crag]

Parakeet green, because parakeets also come in other colours

[mossy mist]

You know what does not make sense? Using any time period as a reference point in a fantasy game where 98% of things don't exist in any time frame

[limber vale]

I

I refrain from a proper reply

But agree 100%

[mossy mist]

I'm not even someone that gets caught up by alteration rules very often, but holy moly do we seem to spend a lot of time denying benign things to the benefit of nobody.

[soft elm]

Sir, the words chosen in a design are just as important as the picture it paints. It's part of the art.

[frigid grove]

My mind is so BOGGLED right now

[slender epoch]

(I know it’s denied already just makes me laugh)

[frigid grove]

One day QC will reconsider, and you and I will be first in line at the next GALD

It's a color too evocative to be locked away forever

[slender epoch]

Much like Fed Ex purple.

[near crag]

You have just triggered me. And no, I have first dibs on that colour, sorry.

[slender epoch]

I don’t mind not being first to the redacted green pool, long as I get in.

[near crag]

I'll allow it.

[clever junco]

I'm trying to understand this convo... is the argument that all colors should be red/blue/green/yellow/purple and not like carmine/celestine/emerald/ochre/lilac?

[near crag]

Yes

That's exactly it

[frigid grove]

I don't think it's an actual argument. Just one person's wild take

[limber vale]

At it's core, it seems an odd choice to have Alter guidelines so restricted. Especially when mechanics and everything else is not.

Someone can Correct me if ive mistaken misspoke on anyone's behalf

[clever junco]

One of the things that has always brought me back to GS is the ability to create unique items that stretch my imagination... I'd be so saddened if suddenly I was restricted to the very basic of concepts.

[warm steppe]

No. It was never about that. It is about applying various words in front of basic colors like red, yellow, green, etc that are not really effective at describing something in terms the average person would understand. Grass green vs six other greens that are effectively the same color…

[clever junco]

But they're not.

Sage green is vastly different than forest green.

Both are leagues different than corbeau.

[warm steppe]

Nobody was saying otherwise.

It is a moot point either way

[oak hazel]

And yet some can't let it go.

[clever junco]

I mean, I'm trying to understand his point.

[soft elm]

We need an emoji that property conveys feeling gobsmacked.

[warm steppe]

Using some abstract tree’s shade of green vs just using common terminology to make your item understandable without using google to look up what is being referenced is basically my point, but that really has no bearing on what is acceptable or not. I just don’t really see the draw or desire to doing it. That was all

[soft elm]

It's about the poetry and love of language.

[quick trout]

So if you say brick red versus brick, you wouldn't want to have a brick dress you would want to have a brick red dress.

It differentiates the color from the material, which is also an important creative writing/design consideration.

And of others have said, we all love words and the ideas they can invoke in the mind's eye. It's painting with words.

[warm steppe]

And that is fine. It is definitely not for me though. I only wear black blue and red all over 😉

[soft elm]

What kinda red?

There are so many...

[warm steppe]

BLoooooodD

[clever junco]

Blood can be different shades depending on whether it's wet, dried, old.... from a lich....

[soft elm]

GS designs have taught me so much about historical clothing and colors, especially as a kid.

Genuine question, but are you colorblind? To where you are unable to distinguish certain shades from one another?

[warm steppe]

I am not sure who that question is being asked of. However, I also don’t see it being a factor when describing something in text… when writing we have to consider the social constructs and contracts we have on a global scale to ensure comprehension within a language being used. It has nothing to do with something existing or not, but rather if it is understood and accepted as such.

[clever junco]

If that were the goal, we wouldn't have half the cultural terms we have in the game.

vergless, ithaenil, wyrsilk

I see unfamiliar terms as a learning opportunity.

[warm steppe]

Most of my personal confusion around the subject comes from having studied cognitive load and its affect on workflow and ease of understanding et al

[soft elm]

To you, but I was genuinely curious, as it would make sense for someone to not care about describing shades of colors if their vision is limited to less shade distinction.

[warm steppe]

These are in game terms which are approved - per the social contract of game and player

[clever junco]

That doesn't inherently mean they are globally understood.

I run into players almost daily who don't understand those terms.

[warm steppe]

That is a fair point for sure

I not saying I am right and someone else is wrong. That is not the conversation.

[clever junco]

I don't see this as a right vs wrong conversation at all.

[twin siren]

There are some people to whom grass green, kelly green, and pine green ard drastically different colors. To not use them to describe an object is to describe it less than fully accurate.

[soft elm]

I feel like brick red is more universally understood than just red, as everyone individually will picture a different shade of red. Adding the distinguisher at least gets folks within a closer range.

[warm steppe]

And that is very understandable. I actually really like the term virescent to describe something that is green-ish

But I also am fully in the camp that there is always room for imagination

[twin siren]

I want to add that I can't picture any color and go by what register the adjective is to process the concept of items.

[warm steppe]

The best part of books is that you might envision something differently while reading the same thing

[warm steppe]

That is actually the original claim I was making. We often have more universally known terms. Going so far into the abstract increases the cognitive load to the point that people ignore the modifier describing the hue and just default to it being green, red, etc. and will often not put in the effort to learn what it means in the brief time they are witness to it

It is just an observation I’ve made while being here for so many years

[clever junco]

I don't disagree with that point, by any means.

But like with many things, the intent is not always to appeal to the masses and sometimes it is about self-expression.

[tidal trench]

I have educated myself on a few of the abstract words I’ve seen over the years 😆

Some, nothing to do with color

[soft elm]

Sometimes phrases evoke a certain emotion, even in the absence of complete comprehension. And so I think that's part of why flowery language is used. It's tapping a different, more abstract part of the brain.

Like a bright sunflower yellow and a pale misted azure will evoke different emotional responses.

[quick trout]

Coming across new words in game leads me to investigate the source. I find value in expanding my knowledge this way. Honestly, learning both the visual reference and etymology of creative word use brings me joy.

Certain words can sound smooth, or sharp (kiki bouba) as well and that clash or harmony plays into peoples' word decisions too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouba/kiki_effect

[near crag]

Well, I’m not sure if I should feel proud for pot stirring with my initial question, but…. It’s nice to see a dialogue about this topic.

[near crag]

So to circle back, why does this not apply to armour and weaponry as well? Why do we need fancy new words for something everyone knows as a ‘sword’, or cultural weapons like a sica, or kaskara, when you could just use rudimentary words that more people would know?

Or…. Different words for clothing items? A shoe is just a shoe, right?

[limber vale]

[limber vale]

I'll meander to the practical... barbies spend money.

[near crag]

Right. So do non Barbie whales, though….

I think I might have lost my point with that comment

[limber vale]

That alone should cause the Powers That Be to reconsider updating ALTER policy.

Mechanics and combat stuff being so fantastical, and updated to alloe basically anything, yet alters stuck in the past seems.... well.

Colour me confused.

[limber vale]

Nah. Every bit of spend counts, no?

[near crag]

lol ok, yes, I agree with that. And to take it a step further, because I’ve already stepped in mysterious oily brown stuff…. If we have a hard set ‘era’ for words or items in game, then there should be no ambiguity. Anything after said timeframe shouldn’t be allowed, full stop.

I think that’s my biggest issue, honestly

[limber vale]

ALTER could use some updating to 2026 levels to go match everything else offered in game.

[wintry wraith]

All this talk about color drove me to finish this poem. Originally inspired by other things but I think it's on topic here. Ok here it is, in Bezzy's voice! ```Anatomy of a Hue, or,
Much Hue About Nothing, or,
Let's Get That Thread

It begins as White, quiet and pure,
A brushstroke of winter, fragile and sure.
Then warms into Ivory, soft as old lace,
That grandmother knitted and put into place.

It deepens to Cream, a rich, buttery thread
Of morning sun spilling across your made bed.
Then bruises to Ecru when shadows draw near,
A parchment of memory, yellowed but clear.

It shifts to Chiffon near the end of the day,
Like moonlight reflected across a still bay.
Then hardens to Pearl, the gem of the deep,
Holding the secrets that silent dreams keep.

It ends in Alabaster, the circle complete,
A soft midnight glow where the other shades meet.
A single, pale thread on a loom is the start,
Of the many-hued pulse in a tapestry's heart.```

[rotund sundial]

Hey all. I've got some confusion regarding the noun of a weapon. I have a morning star and I'm told that the "morning" part of that is considered the adjective as opposed to part of the noun for an alter.

Would someone help me understand that? Is that the case with all two word weapons? or is there a different approach to keep it all in the noun if it isn't considered to be that? like hyphenating it?

Feels like that's something new to me, but perhaps, it's one of those things that depend on who you get.

Just trying to understand really

[soft elm]

This is.... an AMAZING poem. You are very talented.

[lament aspen]

Weapon name vs weapon noun. The base description is made up of three fields, article, adjective, and noun. You can read more in ALTER 2. The noun field should only be one word, the word you use when you "tap my star"

When an item name is made up of more than one word, it's broken up so the leading word is in the adjective field, a/morning/star, 1/7/4

The adjective field is what you type when you do "tap my blue cloak" or "tap my morning star", it's the first word in the adjective field

[rotund sundial]

Understood, so in light of that, when I see something hyphenated as it morning-star is that considered feasible for a noun?

[lament aspen]

There are some exceptions to this, like...ice cream, where you don't call it cream ever so "ice cream" is two words in the noun field

[coral aspen]

That is typically the result of a forging, which techincally breaks the rules in that case. If getting altered after being forged, the merchant would likely change it to be correct according to ALTER.

[lament aspen]

No, only what is listed on the wiki as is
https://gswiki.play.net/List_of_alternative_weapon_names

Yeah....forging does add hyphens ....but GMs shouldn't, we should only do the exact terms in that list

[rotund sundial]

Just to make sure I'm understanding, with the link for the list of alternative weapon names, it's says it's a list of approved weapon "nouns" so "spiked mace" would be an acceptable two word noun change, correct?

[coral aspen]

No, and that phrasing really needs to be updated on the wiki. Mace would be the noun, spiked would need to be in the adjective directly before the noun.

With very few exceptions for weapons, if you see a two word "noun", that's the weapon name, which means adjective + noun.

[lament aspen]

Main gauche maybe? Might be the only exception I can think of?

[coral aspen]

sgian dubh

[rotund sundial]

🙂

[vestal glade]

Dacian falx?

Lochaber axe

[verbal swan]

Hammer of Kai

[clever junco]

sgian achlais,... I don't know about zirah bouk... bouk is the noun I think. 🤔

[near crag]

So, like.. I’ve returned with another question. How are foreign weapon words allowed,but foreign foods and clothing are 10 times stricter? Is there a reason? Please don’t ban me, I just want to understand.

[vestal glade]

bandwidth I would imagine. If you were to take the known weapon archetypes entered into the game, and then also take into account the food and clothing scripts and additions and compare, I would imagine that it was heavily weighted to the former early on, and the latter since.

[flat matrix]

Tanai, for the most part, it's because they were in massive use from the beginning or near beginning. Other times, it is because lore was developed around the terms to give IC reasons for it.

Or it's because you're at Vegascon running a panel as the newish PM, and the owner is there also, and someone asks about katanas, and before Melissa can say anything, David is like "ooh katanas are cool so we can do that" and you get the katana quest later.

If. Looks. Could. Kill.

[vestal glade]

RIP

[lament aspen]

Solomon also approved a light sabre

[vestal glade]

is it just a 1lb sabre that glows?

[clever junco]

If he approved it, why do not all have them!?

[lament aspen]

Good point

[coral aspen]

You can get one... use glowing dye additive, make sure it flares. Boom.

[clever junco]

Oh maaaaaaan, asking Gizwizit to make my tanto glow next time.

[vestal glade]

I present to you, The Aluminum Foil

[clever junco]

I HAVE ISSUES with the glowing dye additive.

[lament aspen]

Just remember the glowing describes the color! The color!

[clever junco]

I want to... not use "glowing"

[near crag]

I mean, I found a Dacian falx. Dacia was a real place. How is that allowed?

Also, you spelled colour wrong 😝😝😝

[vestal glade]

Xynwen just explained that, it's David's fault

[near crag]

Ok, when in doubt, then….

[oak hazel]

Many things were.

[vestal glade]

hey, if that's the worst that's happened, I'm at peace with it. The entertainment and joy I've mined from this creation has totally been worth it.

[near crag]

In that case can we have someone else take the fault for more foreign options, food wise and/or clothing wise? kthnx

[vestal glade]

well, next time you're at vegascon...

[near crag]

If going to Vegascon would help me get a kokoshnik or another caraco, or Vyrsh her latkes, I might actually consider it

[vestal glade]

but we'd have to fire the current PM hire a newish one, locate Melissa, and find a way to ask David the question and hear his response.

[near crag]

Okay, and?

[vestal glade]

it must be recreated... perfectly.

[near crag]

I like a good challenge

[limber vale]

Some of the folks, and their PCs, can't take spices

hides

[near crag]

Her face almost looks gooseturd green.... I'll see myself out.

[limber vale]

Parakeet green

[fringe rune]

What counts as alter fodder? I have a mage's gauntlet that I want to alter to have rolaren plates, and a suit of chain mail I'd like to turn into eahnor. AFAIK both of these require alter fodder due to their rarity but I don't think alter fodder exists for these two materials. For the chain mail would I need to do a lesser transmute or would an alteration with the right fodder be enough?

[flat matrix]

changing the base material on armaments requires a transmute

[vestal glade]

I think you can change the properties on the gauntlets individually though. I think they have a section that describes plates or something to that effect. You could probably do it as a Sadie thing, but you might still need a piece of the material you're looking to change it into.

the armor would need an xmute

[oak hazel]

Exceptions to the rule?

[limber vale]

Only if youre Henry Cavill

[vestal glade]

NEHC music

[oak hazel]

New England Hard Core? (regional punk music)

[vestal glade]

Not Even Henry Cavil music

NEDM vibes

[fringe rune]

What counts as a piece of the material? A forging slab? Or just a weapon / armor made of rolaren?

[oak hazel]

Your just messing with me since you know I have a PTSD like reaction to acronyms anymore! I see your vile games Vorlash!

I almost typoed and said Gorlash! Rus hasn't worked for Simu in a very long time. ::flails:: keyboard errors for the win.

[vestal glade]

depends on the situation, and it's up to the staff working on it, but within reason I would imagine. If you hold out your hand, imagine a piece of material that would cover it to an armored thickness, and then figure out what that would look like.

[vestal glade]

Better than Gortash... hate that guy.

[oak hazel]

Huh, don't recall that name.

[limber vale]

I use whatever is cheap from fast pawn runs if I need fodder

[vestal glade]

Enver Gortash

I wanted a coat that looked like what he was wearing for many many years in gemstone.

[oak hazel]

Ah, Baldur's Gate character. I've not played any of fthe D&D computer games since Never Winter Nights. heh

Love that coat, brocade kinda style?

[limber vale]

Last time you played NeverWinter was Prodigy

Lmao

[oak hazel]

AOL, was one of the old timers in those pvp guilds. KAAOS, etc.

[limber vale]

Sorry this is alters. GMs I apologize

[oak hazel]

We're kinda talking about alters! Look at that coat! The whole outfit for that matter.

[limber vale]

Pfft. Pass.

[oak hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/kebun-buah-kebon-sayur-wortel-gif-11567459

[limber vale]

Farmer dresses in sleeveless t's

That coat is NOT it

[proud sonnet]

"a coat for someone with absurdly long forearms"

IACL it

[limber vale]

Slanderman coat