#[Official] Alteration Help

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supple minnow
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says someone who registers things obsessively

tidal trench
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I did do it again šŸ˜†

lime jungle
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I had one that I bought through someone that was like 35 days, I bet it was the same issue. Seems like some get lost somehow?

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The one on my account I did the next week was <24 hours. šŸ˜„

tidal trench
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I think re writing it reset the timer or something

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Or maybe they do get lost some how

flat matrix
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If you don't reply and instead sort of start new, it basically resets it and tells us it was jsut submitted. It also means it's no longer with the GM you were just going back and forth with on the item, and it's back in the just submitted queue.

tulip wing
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Wow, that's even on the wiki and has been there... forever. I went there to add the info, and it was already there. Don't know how I didn't know/forgot about it.
2. Using WRITE NEW instead of WRITE REPLY. Let's say you're having a conversation with Sadie and you want to respond to her. If you use WRITE NEW instead of WRITE REPLY, it makes your scroll leave Sadie's working list and go back into the pool of new scrolls, effectively ending your conversation until Sadie notices it's left.

https://gswiki.play.net/Alteration_scroll

tidal trench
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I have no idea what that means lol

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I was in a conversation by default because I got the scroll and wrote to it?

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Or writing to the scroll after Iā€™ve already had a response to my submission?

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I wrote the scroll and then realized I had made a mistake so I ā€œfixedā€ it but the only way to do that was to rewrite it, I think? I couldnā€™t add or edit it in any way.

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I think maybe I understand. If I had done WRITE REPLY I could have edited the scroll?

stiff rose
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yeah, unfortunately if you WRITE NEW at any point, you're going to start over from scratch and are put at the very end of the line again, plus are not guaranteed to get the same GM responding who you worked with originally.

there is no way to edit what you've written after WRITE REPLY, which sucks if you've accidentally hit enter too soon or wrote something incorrectly. you have to wait for a GM to respond before you can WRITE REPLY again, which can make the conversation very awkward if you have to be like.. "oops back up, scratch my last response, this is what I meant to write".

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it is another limitation of the current Sadie scroll system. while it gets the job done, it's definitely got some major flaws. I'm very glad that there is the rewrite planned (in progres?) for it and hope that it accounts for those scenarios where a player may need to WRITE REPLY a second time - whether because they made a mistake on their initial reply or because they hit the character limit (which can happen SO easily with altering tents).

tidal trench
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Well I guess I know now.

stiff rose
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At least you were able to get your item completed!

tidal trench
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Yes. Thank you again Elysani!

lime jungle
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Is there a policy available for flypaper tattoos? If I want 'encircling' on the description, for example, that doesn't apply to some of the locations you can put it on.

tulip wing
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If you alter it in such a way that it makes sense in a specific location, the merchant can (likely will) lock it in to that location. For example, my arm tattoos are both flypaper tats, and when I mentioned "wrapping around the forearm" the merchant restricted the flypaper to the arms slot.

civic ore
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Question, can I use Red Direwolf Eye's as alteration fodder to get red eyes transplanted into my eye sockets without being smited? šŸ˜„

vapid quail
strong meteor
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so armoire is annoying to me on several levels...I need a new noun...what can we alter it into? I need some ideas that will fly as I don't want to upset Sadie by asking for a briefcase šŸ˜„

bleak nebula
# strong meteor so armoire is annoying to me on several levels...I need a new noun...what can we...

I'm paying attention to this! I also have an armoire I want to change. Fehala is a bit silly with hers, because the idea of stuff flying out of it and onto her tickles my funny bone.

Speaking in Sylvankind to her veniom-bound armoire, Fehala commands, "Nature's garb, return to the roots."

Fehala opens her veniom-bound armoire, then suddenly several articles of clothing fly off of her and into the armoire.
-=-
What can we alter them into? Anyone with some examples on what they have done?

civic ore
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I hope rubber duck is a valid option

lime jungle
slender epoch
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Nvm. Pulled it up on the wiki- looks like it may be fairly open. Protip when it comes to alterations, and nouns especially- look up the history and first appearance of that particular word. I want to say for the most part we sit around late 1600s-early 1700s for that:

tulip wing
civic ore
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So I see a few prenames that seem to have a bit of space, I was wondering if I'd be able to get away with "Wolf of Silverveil"

lime jungle
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What's the benefit to changing one word in a look? I can understand changing one word on a long description, but a look?

stiff rose
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you hate that one word?

verbal swan
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It's the wrong one?

supple minnow
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Usually it's the wrong color, fabric, etc.

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Well, wrong FOR YOU.

civic ore
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Is this the correct channel the prename-title question?

tulip wing
# lime jungle What's the benefit to changing one word in a look? I can understand changing one...

I think the description of the service was confusing. I don't know anyone who refers to any alteration type as being a "look description". I still don't know what it means (i.e. the merchant would have to provide context). There's an item base description (confined to 15/15/15), a long description (which is like the base description, but can be slightly longer and less structured), and a show description (which can only bee seen by others when shown to them). Interestingly, even the wiki page for "Alteration" fails to clearly define the difference between them as doesn't reference a "look description" at all. From experience with the service, I would assume that it would be in the base description or long description... but since it was specified: I'm not sure?

lime jungle
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And if it's one word, does that allow some fancy things, like different color on a gem that you might not find as fodder typically?

tulip wing
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I mean, truthfully, I see value in that service being applied to either/or, I just can't tell you what was offered form the description. One second, and I'll provide a couple examples of how I've used the "just one thing" service before...

lament aspen
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There is no standard service. Some are strictly just ONE actual WORD

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some are just one THING that might be a two word thing

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some people are always cheeky and are like well I want my heavy blue backpack with a clasp to be a light red satchel with a strap, that is the ONLY thing I want

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and an alteration is only one service thing

stiff rose
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look/show are the same thing basically

lament aspen
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every slot ends up being an argument over what "one thing" is so it's often just easier to do GALD

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even when it is one word

tulip wing
# tulip wing I mean, truthfully, I see value in that service being applied to either/or, I ju...

I had "a dull black rune" changed into "a lusterless black rune" with the JOT service, and then using the same service later, I changed "a lusterless black rune" into a "shadowy black rune". I like the service as it pushes me to "tweak" those items I would like to change a bit, but given the option of having a full alteration, would probably pass over.

You can change material (sometimes?) if you have the proper fodder. Not always though, and it's always going to be arbitrary to the merchant. For example, I tried to change a "pale crystal shard" into a "everfrost shard" and got a no-go since everfrost is from the gem system, even though everfrost is described in detail as being a pale blue shard of crystalized rhimar. However, I also used the service, providing some wyrsilk fodder to turn the fabric of an item into "shadowsilk". Mileage will vary.

tulip wing
# stiff rose look/show are the same thing basically

Weird. I never knew that or heard of it referenced that way before. Can we confirm that's what the case was with the merchant yesterday? That it was targeted for the Show Description of items? If so, I'll add a line detailing that to the Show Descriptions section on the wiki for some clarification.

stiff rose
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I wasn't at a merchant yesterday so can't speak for what they were/were not offering

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but "look" descriptions (you look at something) and "show" descriptions (you show it to someone else to look at) both reference the same thing unless a script overrides it -- the detailed item description.

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I think the word "show" to reference this detailed description is more common among players now but that wasn't always the case, and I've seen staff use both terms as well

lime jungle
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Ok gotcha.

tulip wing
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Cool, I'm just basing off the details in the ALTER alteration guidelines and on the wiki. Since that's what all players have to reference. I'm happy to update the wiki though.
https://gswiki.play.net/Alteration

stiff rose
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eh, it's honestly semantics. show is the more common term now so there's no reason to change it, which could cause confusion.

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(caveat being unless someone on staff corrects me and look and show are mechanically something different under the hood)

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kind of like you can either "attack" or "kill" a creature in game

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both give the same result!

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it's just a different verb calling the outcome

tulip wing
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Yep. There's a lot of instances like that for sure. šŸ˜„ Also why I'm hoping maybe someone who went to the merchant yesterday could clarify (as the service was on the schedule as targeting "Look Descriptions"). When there's been confusion, I try to take the initiative to clear things up for folks. This time, I'm among the confused crowd as well.

stiff rose
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ahh, gotcha. yeah if the merchant was offering look descriptions per a sign or whatever, and there was confusion that look = show, then I get where you're coming from. I added "(or look)" to that article to hopefully help with that.

stoic sparrow
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I think thereā€™s some overanalysis of the calendar item going on here

lime jungle
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I was just trying to figure out if it's worth going next time. So I wanted to know if it includes only look/show, or base/long are fair game as well. Both have greatly different value for me.

stoic sparrow
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It said: Lorcas the Tailor will be stopping by the bonfire atop the Cysaelotar at Rumor Woods to work for those fortunate enough to be selected. He'll be able to change JUST ONE THING about the item - this means one word in the look of the item. Alternatively, he can lighten or deepen an item instead.it does not say specifically the LOOK DESCRIPTION, its shorthand for the way an item appears and is consistent with the ā€œIā€™ll just do a single wordā€ style of Just One Thing

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Other calendar items like this before have worked on base/long, not just look/show

idle bear
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you'd need the merchant to clarify what they mean, that could easily mean look => appearance

lime jungle
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"in the look of the item" I think is what confused me. Yea I can see how that could mean overall presentation of the item.

idle bear
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"in the look" is not a standard term

stiff rose
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yea I admit I have no idea what was referenced, I was just attempting to explain the correlation between look description and show description heh

lime jungle
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if look/show is a term

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Anyhow, I think I've got the jist now.

stiff rose
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I mean.. they are terms... but I read it as they are not the specific terms referenced in that calendar item, haha. like Apraxis has helped clarify.

idle bear
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show and long are very standard (and shan's summary is the thrust of it, with "of course scripts can override anything") and there is also the rare service to get both at once, but show and long are used pretty universally now

lime jungle
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Is it fair to say "look" was once the standard term for that? I thought it was or I'm just misremembering.

idle bear
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I don't recall it ever being, no. Some people may refer to tap description, hand description, etc. but those have fallen out of usage as well

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most of the time, you're talking about the base 15/15/15, long, or show

lime jungle
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That helps, appreciate it.

stiff rose
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I think "tap description", "look description", etc all morphed out of trying to articulate OOC concepts in an IC way at merchants, sort of like we still have people talk about how many "pages" (experience) they have left to "see their trainer" (level up)

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it's all just thinly veiled ooc

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or "zesty" (scripted)

idle bear
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yeah, there's also been a major shift over the last 20 years to be more direct about what happens under the hood, simply because both players and gm's are more comfortable with it

stiff rose
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it's a great change, imo

tulip wing
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I tend to just ask for details at the merchant. I was confused by the verbiage used on the calendar for the event description, but honestly, you'll get clarification at the merchant, so I just sort of dismissed it when I saw it yesterday. However, since it was specifically asked here in this instance, I decided to dig into it a bit for clarification. GS has a lot of colloquial terms that can sometimes be confusing. "Zesty" is a great example of that as well.

tulip wing
# civic ore Is this the correct channel the prename-title question?

Saw your question in the other channel. I think you're unlikely to get a direct answer as prename-titles have to go through QC. Which means, even if a GM said yes/no, ultimately it would have to be submitted to QC for approval. You can list like "first choice" "second choice", etc when requesting the title to expedite that process. For your multi-word prename title, I'd put that as my first choice, and then provide alternatives that are not multi-word.

lime jungle
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Wait... was the unique title one that you design yourself?

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Or is this not referring to the spinner unique title that they offered.

civic ore
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Its the 5500PP Custom Pre-name title

lime jungle
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Ah. That... is a lot of time waiting for a title.

civic ore
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I know QC can still reject it. I just wanna know if its even something that will get by the GM.

tulip wing
civic ore
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Cause the wiki says it should be as short as possible

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But there's like 2-3 dozen titles about that length or >more<

tulip wing
# civic ore But there's like 2-3 dozen titles about that length or >more<

My advise would be the same, as the GM who eventually picks up the scroll will be arbitrary, but I get where you're coming from. Hopefully someone can chime in. I'm sore when it comes to custom prename titles anyway because of the whole "wrymslayer" title getting through QC and still being denied based on some "What if it becomes an official title some day?"

lime jungle
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For 5500 points, you should just be able to make yourself King/Queen of some part of Elanthia.

tulip wing
stiff rose
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I am writing up a show for my portable stove. It has all the upgrades, which means it has all three burner plates, plus the enruned drakar plate upgrade for the magic lighting aspect.

Does the part in its default show applied by the drakar plates count as part of the 511, or is it added onto the end automatically by the script?
A circular drakar plate tops the stove, a banded circle of flowing runes running along its edge.

lament aspen
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Let me look

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Not included

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Added by the script after any show

stiff rose
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thank you, Vanah!!

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That's what I thought, but you know what they say about assumptions.

lament aspen
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S'why I looked!

wanton garden
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Then mine must be bugged, I started mine on 4/12, got a reply from a merchant 3 days later, responded, and it has sat there since

supple minnow
wanton garden
frigid grove
zinc plank
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Creative Couture?

verbal swan
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yes

lime jungle
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Regarding our discussion on LOOK/SHOW, this is from the papermaker:

Because the Papermaker has a stock LOOK, you can't give this a LOOK, but you can give it a LONG.

coral aspen
lament aspen
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I do try to check ALTER and use the language there, but sometimes you just use whatever word is in your head

coral aspen
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When you want to see the items show, you LOOK at it, if you want someone else to see it, you SHOW it to them.

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And someone, depending on demeanor can get nosy and INSPECT an item you're wearing to see the item's look/ show

lime jungle
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Just found it interesting to see an example in the wild.

tulip wing
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I have a question about the custom sides for Deck-the-Halls items, and couldn't seem to find an item-specific channel to post the question in, so asking here.

Is it possible to use the adjectives of items used for customization such as skins. Not my idea, but a simplified example would be using a "rolton pelt" on a custom skin side to become a "a framed rolton painting"? I have some neat ideas, but the concepts are predicated on being able to do that.

supple minnow
# tulip wing I have a question about the custom sides for Deck-the-Halls items, and couldn't ...

For all the Veola-esque items, there are only three ways you can request for your item's presentation:
Example - "a painted,rolton,pelt"

  1. Full - a wire-framed mannequin covered in "a painted,rolton,pelt"
  2. Adjective - a wire-framed mannequin covered in a well-cured "rolton,pelt"
  3. Noun - a wire-framed mannequin wrapped in a/an "pelt"

BUT for your idea, you could maybe alter a weaving item into something like "a tiny,clay,rolton" then use just the noun to create "a framed,<noun>,painting"

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jazz hands

tulip wing
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Oh, yes! That could work and would a good way to work around that. Thank you!

supple minnow
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a framed painting of cavorting <noun>s

civic ore
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Temporal weapons able to have their nouns altered?

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Obviuously not asking for myself.

silent vapor
tropic spoke
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Do we think it would be possible/permitted to use the word "clockwerke" or "werke" as a noun synonymous with "mechanism" or "contraption"?

flat matrix
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Werke is not approved by itself. I think we've mostly use clockwork to describe mechanical things and not as a replacement noun in a 15/15/15.

verbal swan
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..there's a clockwork (noun) at DR for the little mechanism thingies that help with bardic purifcation of gems.

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hides

flat matrix
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hence "I think" and "mostly" as qualifiers! There may be exceptions, like those, for sure

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so it won't hurt to ask, but it will depend on the item, I think

tropic spoke
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I'm thinking of asking for it for the little ticker! i think it would be neat if allowed, especially for things that are pretty explicitly gadgets :3

verbal swan
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personally I THINK it'd be appropriate for a little ticker thingy.

brittle coral
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Clockwerke/Clockwork is an adj.

tropic spoke
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alas

lime jungle
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Anyone with pup tent alterations they would share? Looking for ideas.

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I'm more confused on the alteration process on then more than anything

lament aspen
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So the description is built dynamically based on the items you have in the tent at the time.

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I usually have an intro sentence, then a sentence that mentions the rug and trash can if you have one.

So like, the white walls of the tent are really white. A RUG is on the floor, next to a TRASH CAN.

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then, you have three alternate sentences. One for if there is no lantern placed, one if there is but it's unlit, and another if it's lit.

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Twin lanterns hang from the support overhead, casting faint light over the tent and duelling shadows across the walls.

An unlit LANTERN hangs overhead.

A LANTERN casts dim light and dancing shadows throughout the tent.

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Then, if you didn't mention the scent already, the scent goes last

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If any of the pieces push the total description over 511 characters, that big gets cut

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This all goes through QC so it's been done rarely at events as a delayed service, but is available through premium alter scrolls

lime jungle
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Super helpful, thank you! I've been looking at people's examples, and some don't seem to follow the same setup, which led to my question. Here's an example:

Obvious exits: none```
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Are the lit, unlit, etc. all different alterations, since the effect is different on the room?

lime jungle
lime jungle
lament aspen
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That does still follow. An intro, which may or may refer to a rug or a trash can (example doesn't). A lantern sentence, which changes depending on lantern status. If the rug isn't mentioned before, it gets mentioned now. Same for trash can and placed container. Then scent, if not referenced in any of the custom sentences.

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A room description can have 511 characters, including spaces and including placed items.

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If the next sentence to be added would push the total over that limit, it doesn't get added

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The whole shebang gets done and goes through QC

lime jungle
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Awesome. In love with the item so I wanted to setup my alterations right. Thanks again.

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Oh wait, so this is where I started getting confused - what dictates whether something is metioned earlier vs. later? Is that based on what I want the room to look like and the item can then be applied by a GM to one or the other (or basically, if not referred to earlier, it defaults to the latter sentence)?

lament aspen
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If there are NO alterations, the tent still dynamically builds the room description

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If the alteration mentions the item, then the default is not needed and is not used

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If the alteration does not mention the item, the default is used

lime jungle
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Ah, excellent! So I could just have a couple of descriptive sentences that include all the items, or have a couple that don't mention them at all and they just then get tacked on.

lament aspen
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Yes

lime jungle
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Can the tent also have a SHOW?

timber fiber
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From the ANALYZE: The standing version of the tent may be altered with a long description, but not a show. I assume the folded version can.

lament aspen
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Uh the description field add might change that, but you would need a service thst adds a long and a show

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I'll update that next time someone finds a bug šŸ˜­

stiff rose
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... is that a challenge ...

lime jungle
lament aspen
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That's a separately listed item I think

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A long and a show

lime jungle
slender epoch
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A long is a full service. A show (with a base 15/15/15) is a full service. Any setting parts count up to 3 settings as a full service.

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If you wanted all of the above; thatā€™s 900 points on a Sadie scroll. Pretty sure you can turn them all in together though and the GM working the scroll will send you the price point.

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Longs with a show (as a single offering) are an uncommon live service and typically listed as an offering on the merchants sign, in my experiences.

lime jungle
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Ah ok, never heard it referred to as a full service.

slender epoch
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Itā€™s the easiest way to understand the Sadie price structure and GALD in general- what constitutes a full service/300 points. A handful of items can do a bit more (or in the case of really intricate items, let you know the limitations) as a ā€œsingle alterationā€ but will typically denote that in the analyze, otherwise the above rule is usually what stands. Some live merchants will limit customization settings to a single setting (rather than 2-3) as part of their live services. Luckily weā€™re headed towards a couple of the GALD heavier events with Premium fest next month and the big one in EG come October.

lament aspen
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WOOD SPRITES WOOOO

slender epoch
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Iā€™m choosing to hear that in Ric Flairā€™s voice.

lament aspen
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That is how they talk

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Canon

lime jungle
lament aspen
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Tents are weird. I think it's all in one

lime jungle
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Oh nice!

lime jungle
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There a special word for the clasp that secures a cloak?

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Or the item that the Lanister right hand would wear in GoT?

tulip wing
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Pennanular (semi-circle) /Annular (complete circle) brooch or Fibula.

slender epoch
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Cloak pin if youā€™re being simple with the vocabulary

lime jungle
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Would it make sense to secure a cowl this way?

brittle coral
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Yes

lime jungle
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And since there's knitting now, are stitch types permitted? Like hounds tooth, crocodile-stitch, etc?

timber fiber
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You would need to customise the needles but yes, stitch types would be possible

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Yes, as a simple alter

lime jungle
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If I have an opportunity to get things altered, but I don't yet, for example, have a table in my tent, can I still provide the alteration description I want including a table and it will show it but it just won't be interactive until I put one inside? Or am I only able to alter the description for items that are currently in there?

The lamp apparently works this way, providing a description even if you don't have a lamp item, but I'm unsure about the other items.

lament aspen
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Only the lantern works that way

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The defaults for the other things are "a rug" and "a pole"

lime jungle
# lament aspen Only the lantern works that way

Will a pup tent collapse due to a critter even if it is in town? For example, sometimes kobolds and roltons get into the Landing. I assume critters are only the ones that would attack a player (vs friendly NPC), but will this also happen due to player-animated ones?

lament aspen
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If you don't have a tent that withstands enemies but does have an intown unlock, enemies like roltons and kobolds and invasion creatures will knock it down

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I think animates are in the friendly category

neon spindle
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if you have a slab of material.. can you have your container changed to that "material" mesh?

lament aspen
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Depends. I think there's a section of the ALTER verb on ductible metals

neon spindle
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thanks

verbal swan
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Does ridgeweaver silk need to be supplied anymore? It's not on the wiki alter fodder list of materials, so I don't know. (I don't think so but wanted to double check.)
https://gswiki.play.net/Alter_fodder

coral aspen
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If it's not on the list, you should be good to go without needing to provide it. The list was provided by GM Thandiwe.

verbal swan
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šŸ‘

neon spindle
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anyone want to help bounce around some cool ideas for a custom 225?

lime jungle
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what's 225? Got any theme you're working with?

neon spindle
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transference, you know.. the fog to you spell

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i mean sorta and no.. kinda thinking like bifrost from thor, but.. open to anything

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its for an empath.. if that helps

strong meteor
zinc plank
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@neon spindle My understanding was that it was for custom TRANSFER messaging, not custom spell messaging - hence empath only.

neon spindle
zinc plank
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I'm a little less disappointed that I didn't win then!

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This is the Premium Trove win, right?

neon spindle
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eh.. 50k for a full custom 225? iā€™m ok with that

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my empath has the custom transfers from RW anyway lol

zinc plank
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I sure, it's just listed as custom TRANSFER messaging and it is empath exclusive. Which definitely makes it seem like custom TRANSFER. Which it what it entered for.

neon spindle
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there probably is a transfer one, this was this transference one though lol

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i seen something about transfer too

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but unless it was a big mess up, the slip is ā€œa custom transference papyrusā€

zinc plank
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I had assumed that was for the TRANSFER prize

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Since, you know, custom TRANSFER was one of the listed options and 225 was not.

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And just used a word for the physical item that has 'transfer' as the root word.

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I would definitely double check before you put a lot of work into coming up with custom 225.

neon spindle
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yeah, i probably should lol

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any GMā€™s in lurk mode that can clear it up possibly?

zinc plank
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Maybe pop over to Premium to ask?

neon spindle
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confirmation for transfer, now to come up with something neat

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maybe i should relook at the custom ones to get some ideas

modest matrix
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Can I submit <metal> rings for ASG 13-16 chain armor.

modest matrix
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Stuff.

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Things.

coral aspen
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Are you trying to make it shimmering icy blue? If so, once you have the bottle, you need to POUR the dye additive into it.

modest matrix
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Wait, all we have to do is pour the additive into any existing dye?

coral aspen
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I'm not sure if it'll work with cobbling dye, but in order to work with dyer's tent dye, you need to buy the dye, ORDER BOTTLE, then pour the dye additive into it.

modest matrix
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Thank you.

coral aspen
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You're welcome

tulip wing
# 

Properly worked by Inyexat forgers, vethinye's natural properties are enhanced and strengthened, and it becomes suitable for the rigors of combat-oriented items. Worked this way, vethinye may also be known as starsong.

Vethinye in all forms ranges from the palest of pale blues to the darkest of midnight blues and everything in between, including ombre versions. The metal is dotted with star-shaped occlusions that catch the light and appear to twinkle like stars in the sky. The metal can take a dye, but the iridescent speckles remain.

The sound of the hammer against the metal tells the metalsmith when it is ready, singing in a high-pitched, clear tone with each strike and giving starsong its name.``` https://gswiki.play.net/Atan_Irith/Precious_Materials

Merchant Interaction:

You quietly whisper to XXXXX, "I'm hoping we can turn that into... a nightwillow armillary case traced in vethinye constellations."

(OOC) XXXXX's player whispers, "I can use starveil but not vethinye since we use that for the combat material."

You quietly whisper to XXXXX, "You sure you're not thinking of starsong?"

(OOC) XXXXX's player whispers, "Vethinye/starsong are the 2 approved words for the combat material. All starveil is vethinye but not all vethinye is starsong."

(OOC) XXXXX's player whispers, "Vethinye/starsong are the 2 approved words for the combat material..."

Since this has been changed so that vethinye cannot be used for anything but combat gear, can we please have the official documentation updated to reflect this. This shifts the design aesthetic I was going for and the policy dosn't seem to match the locked official documentation.
coral aspen
#

Vethinye Details

  • Vethinye refers to both the base ore and the final starsong product.
  • Starveil requires alter fodder to use. It cannot be used for weapons, armor, shields, and armor accessories. It is used for jewelry and adornments only (such as inlays on items), and the name is always starveil, not vethinye and not starsong.
  • So you can have "a starveil bracelet" or "starveil earrings" but for other items it would be like "starveil-inlaid gauntlets" and such
  • Starsong/Vethinye are only for use as weapons, armor/accessories, and shields. Additional combat information forthcoming.
tulip wing
#

I mean the top part. šŸ‘† I wasn't indicating that the merchant was incorrect, but that the paragraph about the material seems to read otherwise. šŸ™‚ I would just clarify in the text myself, but it's locked.

"All starveil is vethinye but not all vethinye is starsong." Directly contradicts the policy (and is exactly how I read the document as well). And it's page describing several materials. When I finished reading the vethinye section, I didn't know I needed to continue to the page footer for additional details.

flat matrix
#

The OOC section exists to elaborate exactly on what you can and cannot use for a metal that is a bit of an exception to the naming rule.

I am sorry this caused confusion, but I am not going to update a lore document when the notes about how to use it in alterations are right there on the same page. This is not a contradiction...it's a clarification of how to use it.

The ore itself is vethinye. When worke done way...it becomes starsong. When worked another way...it is starveil. When people use it in alterations, vethinye/starsong are interchangeable. The fluff version is only starveil.

None of that is going to be super easy to explain ICly in a lore document like that -- hence the notes at the bottom.

(OOC) XXXXX's player whispers, "Vethinye/starsong are the 2 approved words for the combat material. All starveil is vethinye but not all vethinye is starsong." -- I messed up this whisper... I meant to say "All starveil is vethinye, but not all vethinye is starveil" -- GALDapalooza is a very busy time, and I was frazzled, so I apologize I did not explain clearly either.

Starveil = non-combat, fluff version.
Starsong = combat
Vethinye = the ore both originate from but it is also used to describe the combat version (aka starsong)

#

For the last few years, I've made a concerted effort for all my lore documents to have an OOC section that not only lists the writer of the lore, so our GMs get proper credit, but so we can address those OOC questions people may have...like how can I use this in an alter, do I need to supply this material, are there any restrictions or limitations.

#

Overall, it seems to work well, and I'm hoping that now that you know about that, it can help you.

And again, I am really sorry I didn't explain it well when in the moment!

tulip wing
#

It's not that big of a deal. (hugs) Went to clarify then noticed it was locked, even when I first posted the above comment I hadn't realized there was additional info at the bottom of the page. I'm a huge fan of the Atan Irith lore and materials. So much so I've been preparing an outfit and accessories for my character to work a visit there someday into his story. I had been leaning into "vethinye" and inytela (starsilk) along with nightwillow because I love the way the words look and how when grouped the alternate names helped to prevent the repetitive appearance of "star" in the text. Literally had not been an issue before this time, and I didn't even realize I had been asking for and getting something that wasn't supposed to be allowed. I'll just shift gears.

flat matrix
#

ā¤ļø I'm so sorry someone didn't tell you before now too. You definitely shouldn't have been getting vethinye accents, so I can imagine it was a big shock when I turned it down too!

rotund inlet
#

is there a list of allowable nouns for lockpicks somewhere? i couldn't manage to find this on the wiki.

tulip wing
# rotund inlet is there a list of allowable nouns for lockpicks somewhere? i couldn't manage to...

I've never seen a list, and I've seen a wide array of nouns used for lockpicks over the years. If it helps at all, the only (sort of) reference regarding lockpick nouns I could find was on the Wearpick ANALYZE which states, "It can be freely altered as long as the noun is appropriate for a lockpick.". I'm assuming its subjective and arbitrary, but likely means anything that "makes sense" as a lockpick. OTS nouns I've seen and recall off the top of my head: lockpick, hairpick, spike, gizmo, spoke, arrow, shard.

lime jungle
#

wires, needles, hairpins, nails, etc.

rotund inlet
#

Thanks! Tine and letter opener are also allowed (theyā€™re at this fest) but paintbrush wasnā€™t so I was hoping there was a list somewhere!

vapid quail
#

I don't think an official list but I have used buttonhook, hairpin, hat pin, corkscrew, nail, pin, cravat pin

idle bear
#

the approval process involves a masterlock, a liability waiver, and certain special certificates

vapid quail
#

They have all been through the feeder system, but it would be up to the merchant.

slender epoch
#

Fork has been my favorite lockpick noun Iā€™ve seen over the years.

verbal swan
#

I've seen springs and sprockets

verbal swan
#

Question:
Would changing the base 15/15/15 and adding (or adjusting) the READ be one GALD service or two?

vapid quail
#

I would count that as one

#

but that is me

verbal swan
#

šŸ‘

flat matrix
#

Yes, that's typically 1

verbal swan
#

yay

long niche
#

Confirmed. I include read with whatever service someone is doing

verbal swan
#

yay, I can change my bright/pink glass/box to a pink glass/pastry/box and fix the read in one GALD session.

vapid quail
neon spindle
#

so, i have a wondering...

#

could i get a gemmed bug altered to a tiny goat of some sort.. to put in my gather charm? šŸ™‚

lament aspen
#

No, there are bug types

#

So like if you had a worm you could probably get it altered into other types of worms

lime jungle
#

Can pup tent's have messaging created for when I get certain things? I don't have a table yet but I know what I want it to say when I have it.

lament aspen
#

Yeah, if you don't have a table it will just say a tent pole

lime jungle
#

So like wherever the table would be referenced, it'll say tent pole? Like... pillows scattered around a tent pole?

flat matrix
#

Welcome to Wolenthor's Tent, where it is elves, elves, elves all the time!

lime jungle
#

And darkness!

lament aspen
#

Yes

#

Because it could be a table, a basket, nothing, a chest

#

You can't presume it's always a table

lime jungle
#

Vanah I need to find you when you're working so you can help me with this!

lime jungle
#

Anyone had hairpick made?

#

A custom hairstyle

#

Need an idea for shoulder-length male hair

tropic spoke
#

pinterest is a great resource for hairstyle ideas

onyx wing
#

I hope you were able to figure out a hair style! Seo is right, pinterest is great for figuring out how something could look.

lime jungle
onyx wing
#

They're pretty fun, I agree!

gloomy ibex
#

looking for ideas on Deck the halls items for my stable stall. also does anyone know if PLACEd DtH's altered items stay when I log off?

lament aspen
#

Yes. That was added in April. When you PLACE it, it will have language that tells you that you are leaving it in your stall or loft

gloomy ibex
#

ok so the janitor wont pick it up? I PLACEd a stove and got it cleaned up by the janitor. I don't want him to sweep up my newly altered DtH item

lament aspen
#

A stove isn't a stay put item

#

The language of PLACE for any stay put items will tell you how long you can leave it

vapid quail
#

But yes, stoves are entirely different

gloomy ibex
#

ahh i see the wording "You can leave the floormat here in Saverik's Stall until you PLACE it again to pick it back up, because this is your stall" Vs "You can leave the floormat here in Wehnimer's, The Mews for 4 hours without anyone else picking it up. PLACE it again to retrieve it."

#

ok then, now i need to find a list of Stay pu items and get some new ideas for alters inside my Stall/Loft

lament aspen
#

Deck the Halls, Market Stall, Instant Tea (auction tea pot), yll'suta

gloomy ibex
#

well, my market stall wont do me much good inside my stable

#

šŸ˜‚

#

i guess DtH's is my way to decorate it then.

slender epoch
#

Yllā€™sutas have some great ambientsā€¦ highly recommended for adding one to your stall or whatnot.

neon spindle
#

since "locksmith/locksmiths" is on a bunch of items.. is that an acceptable thing to put on something?

#

or is stuff like that a situational thing.. needing to make sense for the item? like.. a pouch meant for picks or such

slender epoch
#

More has to make sense ā€œwhat makes this a locksmiths <xyz> specifically?ā€

For toolkits and such that only hold lock picking things thatā€™s easy, but something like a locksmiths cloak or a locksmiths soup tureenā€¦ probably not so much.

neon spindle
#

yeah i figured

#

runs into the situation though.. if the sack/pouch/case or whatever can "technically" hold anything but i only intend to use it for lockpicks

slender epoch
#

Then ask yourself that initial question- what exactly makes this a locksmiths sack as opposed to a bartenders sack or a trash sack?

#

If that answer is ā€œwell, Iā€™m going to keep lockpicks insideā€ then likely youā€™d want to allude to the usage via a show as at a glance nothing is going to make it be more than a sack.

neon spindle
#

yeah i did that with a pack cause i couldnt get anything referencing healing/triage/medic/first aid.. im more on the side of the description conveying what it is over having to show people the thing to convey its a triage/first aid pack to assist with healing duties

#

which i guess really hinders anything i try to get done.. im just not a show you my thing kind of person

slender epoch
#

You can accomplish similar things with a long without saying this is a <profession> containerā€¦ a lockpick pinned pouch dangling a key ringā€¦ an herb stained pack strung with assorted bandages

tulip wing
#

Context: over a decade ago I won a completely custom bottomless keg and got to design the drink for it. I love everything about it, the flavor messaging, the keg, the vessel for the drink item. However, way back then I made the decision to name the drink after my character's surname. Since then he has rejected that name and distanced himself as far from it in-character as he can.

Question: is there a way (or what sort of service would I need) to simply change the name of the drink from "Gryphonwind Special" to something else? Don't want to change anything else about it, but would love to find a service/way to remove that old reference to a part of Myharl's life that is no longer relevant and is now held is disdain.

I know food items require QC, and with the basketfiers coming out the concept of "endless drinks" isn't so ultra-rare anymore. So, I'm thinking maybe a Sadie scroll to change the drink name? I'm just not sure. Any suggestions?

shut drift
#

Does ANALYZE give you any information? You could assist and ask to see if a GM can give you guidance on how to proceed with it. You could try a Sadie scroll and see what happens there. You can get picked at GALD and see what happens there.

#

Speaking for myself only.. I understand it can be difficult to know the course of action for something, and "I" wouldn't be bothered by an appropriate ask (IE: at a GALD session and you give it to me and ask if the drink name can be changed.. either I can or I can't, simple, and then it would give you a chance to question further HOW to go about getting it changed).

wheat remnant
#

What are the option(s) to alter gem patterns nowadays? And is "a pyramidion of" even possible? Thanks!

vapid quail
#

As far as I know they are only altered by merchants who obtain/have specific permission. Unless someone advertises they are altering them, I would assume a merchant cannot

slender epoch
#

Honestly, probably better to try with the other more easily alterable lapidary box. I think outside of the auto altering thing at RoL, the patterns are still a super special alter service rarely seen.

tulip wing
# shut drift Does ANALYZE give you any information? You could assist and ask to see if a GM c...

Sometimes there are GALD merchants who can work on QC-specific items if the GM is trained and willing (yll'suta special messaging comes to mind), but I think most merchants don't delve into anything that requires QC. Bottomless kegs used to be much more highly sought-after before the basketfiers, which essentially turned any standard drink into a bottomless one. So, I'm hoping maybe the "rarity" perspective of the service might not be as 'ultra rare' as it was in the past. If I come across a merchant that seems to be leaning into rare alter services like that, I'll probably give it a try. Think I'll submit a Sadie scroll when I can as well just to see, since I know the sewer rats (which require QC) can be done that way. I guess I was mostly casting a line out there to see if anyone had done anything similar to find out the route they took.

From the bottom of the long ANALYZE:
Changing the drink inside requires use of an applicable Still and/or a qualified merchant.
Looks like the script for these got updated for the stills. And it can act as a regular pourable keg for stills, but the endless drink is only available when the new temporary drink is emptied.

quick trout
tulip wing
quick trout
wheat remnant
#

yeah the uncut gems can be "double dipped" so to speak

neon spindle
#

can kittens be changed into another baby feline, or do they have to remain kittens?

coral aspen
#

If you mean dhu kittens, they have to remain kittens.

neon spindle
#

ok, just tryin to cover some basis so this scroll doesnt take forever.. thank you

#

and just to confirm, sadie will do kittens?

onyx wing
#

only sadie will.

#

same as rats.

neon spindle
#

some merchants will also.. just seems to be a select few

onyx wing
#

I've yet to find one that will, and have gotten 3 kittens altered by Sadie.

neon spindle
modest matrix
#

Can ASG2 no longer be any cloth item or is there a merchant making up his own rules as he goes?

lament aspen
#

It's been addressed

#

Not all GMs remember everything, and we would rather be extra restrictive than extra permissive

modest matrix
#

Glad it was addressed.

The wiki should be the reference if a GM doesn't remember everything. Unfortunately, the GM stated the wiki for that is not maintained by staff and ignored it, even though it was correct.

Can we get a confirmation, from a GM, on that article, so that there's no confusion in the future?

onyx wing
#

Totally get that it's hard to remember all the things, but absolute confidence seems wrong in this situation, especially when the wiki is used to inform players of the rules and guidelines.

flat matrix
#

Again, not all GMs are going to be certain about a particular thing, especially something like this, and while the wiki is definitely a great reference and usually right, in some cases, there's enough of a doubt that they need to deny. The person in question immediately asked and got clarification, but by the time one of us responded with that clarification, it was past the alteration time.

We're not going to slow down an alter session excessively for this. We'll say we can't and move on. That's why having alternatives on hand is important. It is frustrating, and I recognize that. Much as we would all love to remember all the things and be certain that a particular resource is the right one, when it comes down to "I'm still not sure," we train our GMs to err on the side of caution.

#

I feel everyone's pain, for sure! When I first came back as a player, I had a prem contest win and wanted to alter some robes into an ataniki. I was denied for much the same reason, despite pointing to the same resources and the fact that atanikas can be chest or cloak worn, and the fact I wrote the documentation so I was like really pretty sure this was totally fine.

It was frustrating, but I would never have wanted the GM to make it, find out they were wrong, and be faced with coming back to me and asking to change it because they made an error.

We have had clarifications, but some things are just hard to remember and stick, especially in the pressure cooker of an alter session! We'll keep trying to make it more clear though, and I believe we've already updated some behind-the-scenes resources to help prevent it.

tulip wing
#

When it comes to aesthetic matters, I feel that a merchant saying they aren't comfortable with doing specific work, it signifies that it is time to go to the next idea. I may ask for clarification, but will always have backup ideas or alternative items ready to get worked on. The flip side to that is, since so much of the aesthetic of Elanthia is individually subjective and significantly fluid over time, that GMs shouldn't take it personally when a player asks for the exact same (or similar) alter at another merchant event. This style of arbitrary back-and-forth actually fosters some great creativity. It can be a incredibly frustrating, but it's far better than the alternative ā€” which would be merchants becoming the equivalent of baked-in limitations something like the alteration books. Sometimes ambiguity is your friend. Once something gets "set in stone" by staff it becomes the cookie-cutter you're going to be stuck with.

vapid quail
#

I have become obsessed with double finger rings.

IMG_7758.png
flat matrix
#

This looks lik something I would manage to hurt myself with

timber fiber
#

I have one in my jewelry box that I stopped wearing as it caught on everything and I was convinced Iā€™d end up ripping my whole finger off!

vapid quail
#

Its a good thing in a gs an empath can heal you right up...

#

I am not sure I would wear them in rl

flat matrix
#

YES. that is my fear. Heck, one of my friends in jr. high's mom lost a finger because the old school garage door you lifted up yourself caught on her wedding ring as it was opening. /shudder

timber fiber
coral aspen
#

fears I didn't think I would get achieved.

vapid quail
#

ok I am glad my garage door opener is a remote

flat matrix
#

who expected "how not to alter your body eventfully IRL" advice in this thread?!

tidal trench
#

I liked those bracelet chain ring things that are similar

lament aspen
#

Handflowers

tidal trench
#

Also newly exposed to the henna hand art from an Indian lady that I work with.

lament aspen
#

We have that too!

tidal trench
#

I think I remember that. I wasnā€™t aware that it existed until recently. Very very cool looking

tidal trench
#

Is there a wiki for handflowers?

vapid quail
#

There are scripted ones out there

#

I am unsure if we have a wiki page

wheat remnant
#

can a forehead gem be some kinda coffin-cut stygian lichstone? Or any other Amasalen/vampy options to suggest?

flat matrix
#

As long as the gem being used is the type that would sparkle/reflect light so as not to contradict messaging, it would be fine unless itā€™s a gem like the rift ones that have special curses and stuff.

wheat remnant
#

Thanks. I'm kinda iffy about these. What do you think? I guess on the surface we can see the other hues but the center is inky black? Would cut facets help it shine?

Black in color, the lichstone holds dark whispers of other hues, bloody reds seeping into cold blues and mossy greens.  Uncut facets lend it a rugged texture that make the jewel look as if it has weathered the passage of ages.  Its depths are impenetrable and inky, of a black that refuses even the brightest light.
flat matrix
#

it looks like a faceted gem to me, so it would work. Now, do these do any nasty things to you, like rift gems do?

verbal swan
#

nope

flat matrix
#

awesome, then yeah, I'd be cool with it working for forehead gems

wheat remnant
#

sahweet! šŸ™‚ Looking forward to it

wintry turtle
#

I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product. Show it off once you have it, please!

lucid mantle
#

is there anyone I can message privately for help with a feature alteration via sadie scroll please? I keep getting it wrong and the replies to my ideas can take weeks. I promise it won't be long or difficult (I dont think) I'm just really bad at getting syntax right so theyll accept it

tropic spoke
tacit ermine
#

I need some help from people familiar with altering kegs. I put in a Sadie scroll in an attempt to get a dragonfly-branded chestnut keg bound by patinated copper bands - and the response I got was that it can be done as follows:

When you LOOK at it or SHOW it, you will see: a $_dragonfly-branded chestnut keg$_ bound by patinated copper bands```
Never mind the code part in there that has me nervous.... I double-checked the ANALYZE and there's no information that kegs can't have a long. Does it need to stay 15/15/15? If that's the case, then I'll completely rework it.

And... if kegs do need to stay 15/15/15, having that information in the ANALYZE would be a huge help, since this is the current information on alteration guidelines:
```Alterations to the keg's aesthetics are allowed -- they must make sense for a closed-lid container built to dispense drinks via a tap w/ lever.  Generally it is a "keg".  The "read"/language is alterable but not permanent - it will be overwritten if the keg is auto-filled with a new drink.  Changing the drink inside requires use of an applicable Still and/or a qualified merchant.```

Thanks!
tacit ermine
#

I did get some help on that and hopefully Sadie understands my clarification. ā¬†ļø

analog coral
lime jungle
#

Is there any skill that prevents or reduces lockpick bends/breaks from fumbles like water affect disarming traps?

#

It's beyond annoying that I can't do anything about it.

brittle coral
#

Wolenthor, you may get a better response in the Rogue Forums.

lime jungle
shut drift
#

Definitely don't be nervous about it, a glimpse behind the curtain šŸ™‚

#

I don't remember the interactive commands that can show you various parts of an item, but a long still has a 15/15/15. It's not replaced. I'm near certain there are ways to show it on an item with a long.

#

So, specifically in your situation, it's.. "here's the 15/15/15 appearance.. and here's the long appearance.."

verbal swan
#

That's what I figured it was, but wasn't sure

gloomy ibex
#

Are the deck, the halls items allowed to have a description of a sleeping cat? Say - a sleeping cat in a window?

tropic spoke
#

you could do a sleeping <misc> in the window and put an origami cat in there

lament aspen
#

You couldn't do sleeping in misc because it could be anything. A tomato. A rat pelt.

#

And nothing alive, pets are their own thing

#

The descriptions can't rely on any one thing being inserted, it has to make sense for anything in that category

wintry turtle
#

In other words, "a sleeping cat figurine with a miniature <adj> dangling from its collar" could be a yes, but "a sleeping cat with a miniature <adj> dangling from its collar" would be a no as it's alive, right? All conditions have to be met.

lament aspen
#

Or a stained glass window depicting a cat surrounded by <adj>s

stiff rose
#

a resting <misc> framed by a window

#

Tomatoes can rest!

gloomy ibex
#

Dern that is tough. I wish my pet could come into the loft. hence the want of a sleeping static pet.

vapid quail
#

What is a pretty shade of grey... go

#

my daughter said sardine grey lol

gloomy ibex
#

for what? it matters, could be something worn or a descriptor of an item?

vapid quail
#

material

#

sardine grey gowns for all

tulip wing
#

charcoal, glaucous, platinum, cinereous, abalone...

vapid quail
#

oh abalone hrm

verbal swan
#

slate

timber fiber
#

taupe grey, cool grey, silvery grey, pewter, moonbeam, fog grey, cloud grey, storm grey, pale grey, light grey, ash grey, charcoal, glaucous, greige, oyster, pearl

vapid quail
#

i though of oyster

gloomy ibex
#

or more simple dusty,frosty, foggy, ghostly, dusky

vapid quail
#

thanks!

#

hive minds are the best

remote badge
#

if you're open to some purple in your grey, ashen lavender and greyish violet both SO HOT RIGHT NOW

lament aspen
#

I didn't think greige was a real color

vapid quail
#

ooo

idle bear
#

oxidized ham grey

timber fiber
#

Donā€™t give Trallihn ideas!

coral aspen
#

Glaucous is a personal favorite

lament aspen
#

Steamed ham

slender epoch
tacit ermine
#

how has no one said dove grey?

slender epoch
#

Because oxidized ham grey is more fun to say.

rotund inlet
#

mist grey, flint grey, steel grey!

quick trout
#

Gridelin is always in

vapid quail
#

my kid is sticking by her sardine grey

#

but thank you all for the great answers!

#

(no I am not using sardine grey)

verbal swan
#

Heh

wheat remnant
#

Any forehead gem users/experts able to expound on them for me? šŸ™‚ DM if you like.
In reference to these ambients, https://gswiki.play.net/Forehead_gem#Additional_Information, are they all alike? I see some fixed messaging for silver, filigree, sparks, etc. Are there other colorations you set other than the sheen? Are those based of the gem utilized?

analog coral
#

Regarding feature alterations - Ramladu was worked on 20 years ago. I want to change a couple things but don't know if this is what a feature alteration does or if there's a different mechant service but here's what I want to change.

He has obsidian-traced piercing emerald green eyes and time-etched, burnished bronze skin.

He has obsidian-traced piercing **rhimar-hued ** eyes and time-etched, snow white skin.

His entire motif is that of rhimar hued dragon. Those two areas seem out of place compared to everything else.

Since I want to change the eyes and skin, is that considered two services or just one?

shut drift
#

Always check with the merchant to make sure how they're operating. Based on PREMIUM 6: "Eyes AND complexion; OR Complete hair; OR Face, nose and distinguishing mark."

#

So that would be one service.

coral aspen
#

If this is for my merchant, with the exception of the hair line, each feature is an individual service, not each line. If you're going through Sadie, though, that is 100% correct.

lime jungle
#

Oh that's good to know!

#

What if it's skin and an eye setting on a ferocious eyes mask?

#

Since that's sort of skin + eyes still.

shut drift
#

Ferocious Eyes doesn't do skin. It's eye color and eye characteristic. That would be considered a customization and not a feature alteration (although the same rules apply).

tropic spoke
#

If you went through sadie, (if she works on them, which i dont know for sure), you can generally get up to 3 "settings" done under 1 scroll

shut drift
#

Ahh, Wolenthor, do you mean then a skin feature alteration + a Ferocious Eyes customization? That would be two separate services and also unlikely to be done by the same merchant as it's two separate areas (feature alteration / GALD).

#

I see no reason Ferocious Eyes can't be altered/customized via Sadie, and yes, "up to 3" per 300 points (you can do up to a total of 1200 points per scroll for fluff only). A bit annoying though if your item has 4 customizations or 2 šŸ˜„

coral aspen
#

(up to a total of 1200 points per scroll for fluff only)

neon spindle
#

odd question, but does anyone happen to know the original description of lint bags..? was there more then 1 original description?

tulip wing
lime jungle
#

is there a nice list of eye alterations out there somewhere? Looking for something in that color-traced adjective but nothing quite fits.

neon spindle
#

is a trash or garbage bag too out there?

neon spindle
#

or like.. rubbage bag?

slender epoch
#

What exactly makes it that vs some other just bag?

vapid quail
#

I think that garbage bags in general are out of genre

#

the first invention of the trashbag was 1950

flat matrix
#

Yeah, I'd say it's much to modern-sounding

neon spindle
#

fair enough

flat matrix
#

Depending on what you are trying to do, there are ways to make some gross bags/sacks, etc. that stay firmly within genre.

neon spindle
#

i have one of those lint bags.. pretty much a trash bag

flat matrix
#

It's really not

neon spindle
#

i mean.. it eats trash lol

#

but, i would be trying to get it to some kind of... "thing" bag

#

or a bag of some purpose.. related to what it does, if im making any sense

vapid quail
#

In general, when altering, the focus should be on what the items looks like, not what it does. If I cannot tell what it is in a glance,it most likely doesn't work.

#

at a glance my bag of clothing sitting here from the outside looks no different on the outside than my bag of rocks

frigid grove
#

there are ways to make some gross bags/sacks There sure are

neon spindle
#

i mean.. its already made of elf skin lol

#

maybe some covering with crazy lint.. cause it makes crazy lint

#

a piece of goat-shaped lint stuck to it, yep..

#

just going off the rails to myself now, dont mind me

#

but anyone feel free to jump in with any good lint bag ideas

gloomy ibex
#

A large black bag with red drawstrings. SHOW a bag that reeks of refuse and displays greasy stains along its wrinkled surface.
Or something like that

#

Make a trash bag without saying trash bag.

lime jungle
#

Or a soiled sack

#

Oil stained

#

Etc

analog coral
#

soot-stained
acid-eaten

#

charred

wheat remnant
#

a hefty black, waxcloth/oilcloth, bag

gloomy ibex
#

A hefty black cinched sack

#

Closing in on a good trash bag design.

neon spindle
#

lol

lime jungle
fleet cloud
#

dont matter wotcha callit...as long as when ye open it a deep disembodied boice chants, "Hefty, hefty hefty!"

gloomy ibex
#

Wonder if Sadie can do that?

verbal swan
#

you could ezscript it?

shut drift
#

No, an EZScript wouldn't work for that. EZScripts can't "give life" to something.

verbal swan
#

šŸ˜¦

tulip garnet
#

How would ya'll describe this? I'm not sure where to even start.

iron_crown_of_melkor_by_enotart_d9qtk32-pre.jpg
neon spindle
#

a battleworn eight-pointed crown set with a trio of blue gems?

#

or something along that..

#

or seven? i dunno

wheat remnant
#

a blackened <metal> crown of dagger-like palisades

neon spindle
verbal swan
#

tbh, I like battleworn if only because I don't see it very often.

elder wind
#

a tarnished crown of pale sapphire-set tines

#

Plus, oof, that crown is going to hurt with those downset spikes

tulip wing
#

a timeworn dark taloned crown beset with a trio of winternight jewels
Crafted of a deeply tarnished argent alloy, the ancient crownā€™s palisade of seven kited talons each spire above a conversely beveled fang. The wicked tines are bound abreast to form a segmented annular coronet, its finial adorned in trio by glacial-hued specular winternight sapphires.

lime jungle
#

I was told that overlapping shin plates is not acceptable as an alteration noun for leg greaves. Just wondering why plates is a no no?

brittle coral
#

I believe greaves have an approved noun list

#

so like guards, greaves, and something I'm sure I'm forgetting

tulip wing
# lime jungle I was told that overlapping shin plates is not acceptable as an alteration noun ...

It's an example of the arbitrary alteration rules in GS. They are fluid and change over time depending what GMs are on staff and who you are working with. Currently the noun "plates" isn't allowed for leg armor.

There is a player-maintained list of "approved" nouns on the wiki where folks try to keep up based on what's allowed and rejected my merchants. Currently it shows (for leg armaments):
greaves, leg greaves, leg-greaves, leg guards, leg wraps, shin guards (approved as of 1/3/18 with "guard" as noun)
https://gswiki.play.net/Alteration_noun_list

As a side note, I recently made a few attempts to have tassets made in game as both a part of a belt (to be worn with armor) and as an actual part of plate armor (since it has full body coverage), and was informed both times that currently "tassets" are only approved as functional leg armor (even though they don't show up on the player-compiled list). I'm assuming there's a GM list somewhere, but to my knowledge players have never had access to it. Edit: added "tassets" and the date stated approved to the list just now.

Just sort of one of those "shrug and move on" aspects to having things customized in GS.

neon spindle
#

careful though.. even if the games feeder spawns it, if you ask for it too much.. you'll get in trouble

tulip wing
# neon spindle careful though.. even if the games feeder spawns it, if you ask for it too much....

25 years of playing GS has trained me. Ask a few times with varying context that makes sense. If the answer keeps being no, give it a few years when new staff gets hired. I know that annoys some GMs, but honestly, it's to be expected when there are only a few solidly defined rules, and the others shift over time. But yeah, if you keep being told no and actively try to annoy the GMs about it, your interactions aren't going to be the greatest.

lime jungle
#

Yea no big deal, just helps me to better understand how to plan my alterations in the future.

tulip wing
neon spindle
#

whew, almost started ranting

neon spindle
#

is bastard axe still an acceptable thing.. if its a bastard axe?

coral aspen
#

I believe bastard axes are limited to axes that specifically have the bastard axe script on it.

neon spindle
#

i have one.. i was just curious if it can be a "bastard axe" still

#

thats still an acceptable noun as long as it has the bastard axe script?

coral aspen
#

Well, "axe" is the noun, "bastard axe" would be the name (it's a semantic thing, but I want to note the difference because the base 15/15/15 will only allow the noun to be a single word with very few exceptions).

neon spindle
#

lol

#

so technical!

coral aspen
#

I'll do a little quicky check to confirm that it's still acceptable, but I'm fairly certain that as long as it has the script, it's allowed.

neon spindle
onyx wing
#

so long as it's an axe and grip-able to swap between OHE and THW, you should be good.

neon spindle
# 
You grip the golvern tomahawk with one hand.
>grip toma
You grip the golvern tomahawk with both hands.```
onyx wing
#

tomahawk is such a great noun though! But I understand that the heart wants what it wants.

neon spindle
#

i may not end up doing it, i just want to know if down the road if i choose to alter it.. if the old school name is acceptable lol

#

i do like tomahawk

coral aspen
neon spindle
opal talon
#

First time posting on discord. First time ever spending premium points in almost thirty years of play. Not sure if this is the right place to share this, but wanted to shout out a huge thanks to the most excellent person that altered my wind-twisted ebonwood runestaff. It's perfect!

vapid quail
opal talon
tulip garnet
#

Thank you, everyone. Your ideas are amazing.

tulip garnet
tulip garnet
lime jungle
#

What have people altered when it comes to paper makers? Can the nouns and articles be altered?

elder wind
#

Love all these alteration ideas - just a reminder that we try to stick to 12 words or 60 characters (with spaces) for a long description. There can be a little overage, but beyond 12/60, we start to get into needing a show description.

onyx wing
fleet cloud
neon spindle
#

whaaaat Paradis is acceptable now?! thank you!!!

brittle coral
#

Paradis is, but Paradisian is not.

neon spindle
brittle coral
#

I'm just making a clarification, Timbalt. We never argued that Paradis wasn't allowed.

neon spindle
neon spindle
#

so the whole arguement is now void.. cause i can get the actual word i wanted, everyone wins Thandiwe!

tulip garnet
#

Can a helm be altered into a crown?

coral aspen
#

No. Helms are armor accessories and therefore have specific nouns they can be altered into

tulip garnet
#

Dang. Back to the drawing board!

#

What nouns are those, specifically? I see different armor names on the wiki, but not armor accessory alternatives.

tulip garnet
#

Gonna look silly, a Sorceress dressed in silks and leathers wearing a greathelm. šŸŖ–

safe umbra
# tulip garnet Gonna look silly, a Sorceress dressed in silks and leathers wearing a greathelm....

I'm unsure if the player side has a list; my wiki-searching capabilities are not that good right now. But I believe if you have a leather greathelm (a leather-based helm that covers head and neck) "leather hood" is a possibility. Check out the options on the "stand" from Heady Spirits, as those are all functional helms/armor accessories. On the branching stand you see: a polished steel horseman's pot topped with a braided crest, a cinereous steel helm molded into the shape of a wolf head, a dark leather hood lined with plush wolverine fur, and a rough leather arming cap topped with a turtle shell.

mossy mist
#

The answer is shimmer trinkets.

tulip garnet
mossy mist
#

Which is right around the corner!

safe umbra
#

There is also 'coif'/'metal coif', I believe, for a hood-like thing but made of metal. But that or 'leather hood' seem the most generic.

tulip wing
analog coral
#

Daggoth approved.

fleet cloud
#

Needless to say... da fact dat I seen a "horseman's pot" listed assa offishully sanctshun'd helmet means Sumpbody's Gonna Need a Good Scuse to not strip da "helm" frem my "dented steel pot helm fashioned witta dull trail knife handle" anna den take da NEXT obious step towards callin it a daggum SAUCEPAN! šŸ˜‰

slender epoch
elder wind
#

So, helm name allowability is based on whether the piece to be altered is leather or metal, and whether it covers the head, the neck, or the head and the neck. Some terms that we're currently approved to use include: pikeman's pot (metal, head), horseman's pot (metal, head and neck), pot helm (metal, head and neck), and lobster-tailed pot helm (metal, head and neck). If you have other terms, and can provide a good source for us to consider, we can see about getting more terms approved.

lime jungle
#

Can rings altered to be carved from gems if the gem is provided?

#

or wood?

mossy mist
#

wood has been fine in my experience

#

I have a glowbark band

elder wind
#

The base item would need to be something worn on the finger already. But yes, a ring could be 'carved' from gemstone or from wood.

#

If it's a rare gem or wood, you'd need to provide some.

lime jungle
#

Yes, for sure a ring already. And it can start as a metal ring?

lime jungle
elder wind
#

That might vary by merchant. It would depend on the material and request.

tulip wing
# lime jungle Can rings altered to be carved from gems if the gem is provided?

Was that a targeted question or just general? From a general perspective, I've never had issues doing either. I've done both. To my knowledge the "item material" restrictions are only related to functional combat gear (weapons/armor/accessories/ and shields, with some substantial ambiguity about cloth materials for cloth armor). Since in general, a ring's material doesn't have any effect on its function, there shouldn't be any sort of restriction as long as fodder is provided and the merchant is willing to work with that material (exceptions being those materials listed specifically in the ALTER guidelines).
(Edit: Oh, weird, the rest of the messages didn't load on my phone until I posted)

mossy mist
tulip wing
# mossy mist One piece of fodder is nearly always sufficient. I've never been asked for multi...

I have, several times, just to set expections. But it just depends on the merchant. Examples: I had to provide multiple ki-lin horns in a bundle to have ki-lin horn spikes added to something, I had to provide 6 valravn quills (which are a rare drop) twice to have items altered, and I had to provide 5 disir feathers (which are also rare drops) to have one item altered. So, if what you're wanting to use is considered exceptionally rare or not ample supply to do an "item" (trying to use a single feather to make a cloak of feathers, for example) a merchant might request more than one piece of fodder... for a ring, I wouldn't think so, but I did want to express my experiences since they contradicted others.

lime jungle
#

Yep, makes sense. Appreciate it.

slender epoch
#

I had to provide 2 pieces of ghezyte for my pocketwatch. One for the watch and one for the tiny charm on the watch.

Case by case basis honestly.

tulip wing
slender epoch
#

Exactly.

tropic spoke
#

Can EZ scripted items have long descriptions? Can they have long descs and shows?

lament aspen
#

Yup. Normal rules apply

tropic spoke
#

Neat šŸ˜„ Also any alter has to take into account the existing scripting I assume

verbal swan
#

Yeah, I have an ezscripted spice rack that would be very difficult to re-alter due to how the current description is referenced in the script messaging. (Not that I'm at all interested in doing so, just putting forth as an example.)

tropic spoke
#

Awesome, very helpful! Thank you both ā¤ļø

lament aspen
#

Yes concur. Any alteration would need to be in line with what the item does, but it could take a long or a show or both or a custom loresong

#

Whatever ALTER rule that deals with the item's essence

tropic spoke
#

I think I'll add this to the ez script wiki page for future reference

neon spindle
# flat matrix It's really not

so um yeah i forgot to ask the 1 thing i was meaning to ask.. you jaded me with niceness lol(didnt want to use report)

wheat remnant
#

this is a bit confusing - was this meant to be white alloy rope?

an emerald and diamond tiara trimmed with a white gold rope

>anal tiara
You analyze the diamond tiara and sense that the item is flagged as Alteration Fodder.

You get no sense of whether or not the tiara may be further lightened.
>
>inspect tiara
You carefully inspect your diamond tiara.

You determine that you could wear the tiara on your head.

It looks like this item has been mainly crafted out of white gold, an infrequent alloy.  This item is intended to be supplied for an alteration.  This material cannot be dyed.
coral aspen
wheat remnant
#

surely white gold isn't an infrequent alloy in Gemstone?

tulip wing
# wheat remnant Do variants of gold require fodder? Something seems amiss. I don't see any me...

Being honest, when it comes to alteration fodder the inspect verb rarities mean next to nothing, and until every single material has a functional type in the game it will likely remain so. Whether a material needs to be provided as fodder for a particular alternation is completely arbitrary and up to the merchant doing the work. There are some fairly sound assumptions you can make, for example: rare, very rare, and extremely rare materials (according to lore) will almost always need fodder, but that's not always indicated via inspect. Ko'nag (for example) inspects as just "wood" as it has no functional material type, but it's considered very rare and a merchant will likely want fodder. There is no rhyme or reason to it. That being said, I fully support a far more robust materials system, and like seeing new items with functional materials.

neon spindle
#

so am i gonna be ok asking for a "small" maul on my scroll or will i get in trouble again?

#

ALSO, are the bars of veniom from the rogues guild usable as fodder?

neon spindle
warm steppe
#

even white gold, red gold, and rose gold are fine without fodder

neon spindle
#

theres red gold? never knew that

warm steppe
#

Both red gold and rose gold get their colour by adding copper to pure gold.

#

same alloy of gold and copper, but the amount of copper determines if it is "red" or "rose".

neon spindle
#

id imagine just a deeper rose gold? i weirdly cant find red gold jewelery on the googs

coral aspen
#

red gold may likely have fallen out of fashion irl since it dilutes the quality of gold, essentially. That's probably why you can't find any, and it's the only thing that would make sense to me in terms of jewelry

warm steppe
#

It was more popular in the USSR, when that existed.

neon spindle
#

ahhh

#

i was just curious of the look, never heard of it before

#

apparently thats ussr red gold lol

flat matrix
# neon spindle so am i gonna be ok asking for a "small" maul on my scroll or will i get in trou...

While it will always depend somewhat on context for what other adjectives and descriptors may be in play, just in and of itself "a small maul" or "a small-sized maul" would be allowable, because it would be indicative of a maul that is small for a maul versus miniature/tiny/halfling-sized, etc. that would in general be more indicative of something requiring a script (so a giantman couldn't use it effectively but smallfolk could, tc).

neon spindle
#

really the single "halfling only" thing i can remember existing

#

theres probably been more released.. im just slow on learning about it lol

warm steppe
#

there was definitely a set released after GS3, during a halfling festival I ran outside of Icemule many years ago.

#

but it's very rare, yeah

neon spindle
wheat remnant
neon spindle
warm steppe
neon spindle
#

im kinda sad though.. its not the gs3 set i was looking for, and it wont go past 38lbs :/

#

not that thats a giant issue, 38 is pretty darn light..

neon spindle
#

can you supply fodder somehow for alter scrolls? or is that not a thing

dark flax
#

That is not a thing currently.

neon spindle
#

aww, ok thank you

wanton garden
#

Is "Kris" hard set as a short sword? Or can it be a dagger, too?

warm steppe
#

kris is a noun for short sword base

wanton garden
warm steppe
#

it is commonly seen as a dagger somewhere?

#

there are very old versions of daggers with that noun, but there should not be a shop currently selling it at all

#

if there are it should be bugged as a typo

wanton garden
lament aspen
#

(sometimes in gemstone for extra extra confusion)

wanton garden
#

Is "rondel" allowed as a dagger name? I don't see it on the list of dagger nouns oddly enough.

coral aspen
#

If it's not on the list, it's not approved. Weapons and armor are the only ones that have 100% approved nouns listed on the wiki on their pages.

wanton garden
#

But... A rondel!

wanton garden
#

Alteration question: there is a type of dagger called a "qama dagger". Because the noun would be "dagger" would "qama dagger" be a acceptable?

flat matrix
#

No

wanton garden
# flat matrix No

What about that isn't allowed? I'm still new to the whole alterations thing

flat matrix
#

So "qama dagger" is a type of dagger. We have specific allowable nouns for daggers, and if it is a compound term, while the noun would remain "dagger" in our 15/15/15 system, the modifier of "qama" is not an allowable "name of a dagger modifier".

So while you could use regular modifiers/adjectives to describe your dagger, if you move into the "this is the name of this type of dagger" territory, then it must be one of the allowable ones.

#

For example, "a sharp-edged,vultite,dagger" is fine -- those adjectives are all descriptive to the dagger itself. "a sharp-edged,vultite qama,dagger" is not -- because "qama" has to stay with dagger -- and a qama dagger is not something we have.

warm steppe
#

its also not clearly defined as a dagger or short sword... it is a "qama" in many descriptions out there, without the noun dagger or sword applied. The Qama is a double-edged short sword from the Caucasus region, known for its effectiveness in close combat.

wanton garden
#

I see

warm steppe
#

the same reason we do not call something a kris sword, or tanto dagger.

wanton garden
warm steppe
#

sure... as I said... it's not clearly defined.

#

nor is it allowed in the game at this time

wanton garden
#

Where did you see the short sword description? Everything I saw has it as a dagger

warm steppe
#

however, even in that example is is called "a qama"... dagger and sword are not part of its name

wanton garden
flat matrix
#

There are a ton of dagger options, but unfortunately, qama dagger is not one of them at this time.

And we do realize there are times that GS terms do not neatly line up against what real-world terminology may use. For now, however, we have strict limitations on what noun can be used for what weapon type.

wanton garden
#

The explanation given by Xynwen helps a lot

warm steppe
#

sure, I just dont think it would ever be "qama dagger"... it would probably just be "qama" if ever approved.

wanton garden
#

Fair

#

Trying to think of what type of dagger I want to transmute this short sword to, is all.

stoic sparrow
flat matrix
#

for the transmute itself, there is not an alteration supplied, so we would likely have it just change the noun to dagger.

#

Beyond that, you can design up an alteration around an allowable noun for a merchant session (or sadie scroll!)

wanton garden
#

so instead of it being "<whatever> gladius" would it be kept as "<whatever> dagger" ?

flat matrix
#

So as long as it still mostly fits with the transmute, then yes -- we tweak what we need to at the bare minimum to make it work. If, however, it's something so tied to the original item/material that we cannot, we'll have to remove it.

wanton garden
#

Nah it's not

#

Short

Igges taps a wavy ebon gladius, which is in his right hand.

Long

wavy ebon gladius etched with a honey badger on the mirrored blade
flat matrix
#

(we typically reach out in those cases to mak sure you know)

wanton garden
#

Since the spirit animal is a honey badger šŸ™‚

flat matrix
#

yeah that long would be fine -- we'd just throw dagger where gladius is

wanton garden
#

Okay cool

#

This all helps a lot, thanks for entertaining my questions

flat matrix
#

NP!

lime jungle
#

How would you describe the shape of a spartan shield?

warm steppe
#

it's a round shield

# 
Alternative names: aegis, kite shield, pageant shield, round shield, scutum```
# 
The Spartan shield, also called the aspis, was large and round, typically measuring around 3 feet (about 1 meter) in diameter.``` Aspis is not a valid noun, but round shield is a valid description for a shield of Large size.
lime jungle
#

How about the spherical nature, besides the roundness.

#

Because a simple wooden round shield is round. But this has that slightly bowed out feature

#

Curious more about the shape, vs. an acceptable shield noun. It's for a fluff item.

#

so, like a contact lens

cloud cliff
#

paraboloid or steeply convex maybe

warm steppe
#

oh fluff item, hmmm

#

convex probably then

lime jungle
#

Ah convex maybe!

split dagger
#

Maleise suggested that I post my alteration idea here for feedback to make it more GM-palatable. Help would be appreciated! Hereā€™s what I have (these are double leathers with the ethereal script, and I have fodder for the restā€”ethereal blue gem, lich bone):

some moldered lich skin leathers: Some creeping lichen has infected this armor, casting textured verdigris blooms over its grey-green lich skin. Where some of the outer layer has eroded, yellowed, ancient bones are visible underneath, retained to provide a loose form. Impressed into its withered chest, offset to the left, is a sizeable, ethereal blue gem bound into place with rusted iron chains.

coral aspen
#

My only comment here is that the show description looks like it would be great for a stationary statue or decoration, but for leathers, no. There are ways to rework it so that it would make sense as leathers.

#

Example, you cannot have live creeping lichen infecting/infesting the armor as that definitely would not stand the test of time, however you can have intricate embroidery the mimics the same and would work within alteration rules.

split dagger
#

Thanks for the feedback, I'll work on it some more.

onyx wing
#

I find that if I use "seems" or "could" or "appears" ... the PTB are more accepting.

neon spindle
#

there a list of what metals are allowable to use for mesh containers?

#

i guess specifically ok for larger containers? cloak/pack

tulip wing
# neon spindle there a list of what metals are allowable to use for mesh containers?

Pretty much anything you can provide actual fodder for that the metal doesn't specifically mention being used only for weapons/armor. The older common options in the "mesh" style that are no longer acceptable are: veniom-mesh, and mithril and imflass can no longer can be alloys (yes, even though the treasure system generates mithril alloy, it can't be used for alters). So "mithril mesh" (fine), "mithril alloy mesh" (no-go).

Otherwise, I've seen everything used, just note that they won't have any mechanical abilities. So like, a krodera-mesh cloak wouldn't protect/reflect magic.

neon spindle
mossy mist
#

Thatā€™s surprising. I have a golvern mesh bag

neon spindle
tulip wing
vapid quail
#

From alter 41
Normally, "Very Rare" materials may only be added as an accent (as opposed to the base material) to an item and must always be supplied to the merchant. "Extremely Rare" materials cannot normally be added even as an accent during the course of a merchant session. You may be able to APPRAISE an item to see if it is made of a "Very Rare" or "Extremely Rare" material.

neon spindle
#

so, anything below extremely?

#

or, within reason

vapid quail
#

something very rare can be an adornment

#

so edge, inlaid etc

#

yes, there are items out there, and yes sometimes things are forgotten.

neon spindle
#

but somethin like vaalin mesh, should that be acceptable since its common enough to not even need fodder? or would it be considered too soft for a container material

#

"not" being cloth-of-vaalin

vapid quail
#

vaalin is a really soft material, which is why its good for cloth of

#

now, if I could code an item where the metal bends off little by little and your drop items out... but I think that would not be good (jking about it)

neon spindle
#

lol

tulip wing
#

Yeah vaalin runs into the same issue as veniom, and the same with the brittle nature of alum too. Typically in those cases, the metal details tell you directly that they can't be used for things though, also Alter 44 for metals is useful too.

neon spindle
#

this is where my confusion comes from.. what metals would actually be usable i could bring a slab in and get a backpack or cloak

vapid quail
#

I hope folks know we are never trying to be mean or dis your ideas etc. We as merchants just have to do the best we can to keep in guidelines etc.

neon spindle
#

no no, not at all Val... in the same respect i hope im not coming off as annoying

#

im just trying to learn those guidelines so i know whats allowed

vapid quail
#

I totally understand!

#

so metals

neon spindle
#

throw me a bone for a cool one šŸ™‚

#

i really wanted eonake for my pally, and golvern or rolaren for everyone else.. high hopes

tulip wing
vapid quail
#

faenor, mithglin, vaalorn

#

would probably work off the top of my head

neon spindle
#

hmm

vapid quail
#

iron, vultite

neon spindle
#

pretty much stuff available in town weapon shops?

vapid quail
#

invar, mithril

#

There could be things I am not remembering, so take this unofficially, and any merchant may have their own things, like a dwarf may say no to elven metals etc

neon spindle
#

did glaes get phased out, or am i tripping?

tulip wing
vapid quail
#

glaes is volcanic glass

neon spindle
#

a cloak of glass threads sounds fun

vapid quail
#

only if I can code it to slice you every time you move....

neon spindle
#

lol

warm steppe
#

glaes is not metal, so has its own rules.

vapid quail
#

I think you would be safe asking about those ones I mentioned, unless I am missing something

#

but glaes would not work, it would be like slicing up a window and making a cloak

neon spindle
#

but no, ill try to stick to a simple one.. i kinda like faenor and vaalorn as a mesh

vapid quail
#

some metals cannot be dyed so check them out on the wiki

neon spindle
#

oh yeah, thank you i forgot all about that

long niche
#

There's definitely different rules too around mesh and like... cloth-of-<metal> fabric or "threads of <metal>" Mesh is a lot more forgiving.

#

You can make almost any metal into a mesh but that doesnt mean itll be supple

warm steppe
#

don't get me started on 2-stage thermodynamic properties. šŸ˜„

long niche
#

Yes, please don't get started.

neon spindle
#

hah

neon spindle
long niche
#

Yes but this is alteration help not Bill Nye the Science Guy. šŸ˜†

vapid quail
#

but Bill is cool

neon spindle
#

bill bill bill bill

warm steppe
#

yeah, we have magical materials in Gemstone, so certain real world applications don't exist here.

long niche
#

That too!

vapid quail
#

If we had Bill he would figure out cool things with metal through alchemy!

long niche
#

But like an iron mesh cloak probably wouldnt really work out because it's not exactly going to be flowy. but an iron mesh collar? pauldron? Sure

vapid quail
#

that is true

warm steppe
#

and glaes! since glaes isn't metal šŸ˜„

neon spindle
#

lol

vapid quail
#

but tiny metal links of iron.... only if I can make it like 500 pounds

warm steppe
#

-100 to stealth

long niche
#

yeah i guess you could technically do a chainmail cloak šŸ˜†

neon spindle
#

theres enough notes in game i could still get it to 4lbs lol

vapid quail
#

mutters nofun

#

The biggest issue we were having is you were asking for top tier metals that should be adornment only because of their rarity level

#

like I could do a mesh collar of those metals or edge the cloak etc.

neon spindle
#

yeah no i understand

vapid quail
#

hopefully this helps!

neon spindle
#

absolutely did ā¤ļø

flat matrix
#

Also, something made entirely of mesh will be heavy if it's large...

#

but you could do something like "a dark wool cloak adorned with ribbons of golvern mesh" too if you supplied it -- as that would be a great way to use the adornment rule for those rarer ones

#

"a silk and leather pouch draped with darkened rolaren mesh" and such

warm steppe
#

trim, buttons, toggles, banding, etc. there are plenty of ways to make something look nice with multiple materials if you combine a fabric and metal together

#

and in the case of armor/shields/weapons you can do some fancy stuff as well, especially with ones that have customizations to their hilt/etc in messaging.

tulip wing
#

So here's one I've never run into because I don't think it ever really mattered before. I have a shadowsilk robe/cloak that inspects as being crafted out of leather. Is having the base material changed to cloth to reflect the silk something that can be done via an alteration? Dropped 2.5k bs the get the robe flourishes added at DR only to discover that I can't use it because of the base material associated with the silk robe/cloak.

lament aspen
upbeat pendant
# 
    * Alterations to the 15/15/15, long and show of this armor are fine.
    * Any merchant can change the associated Armor Accents to match the alteration.

    * Head Coverage: tall vultite helm with a beak-shaped visor
    * Neck Coverage: segmented vultite aventail
    * Arm Coverage: plume-etched vultite arm greaves
    * Leg Coverage: matte black vultite leg guards``` so for an alteration on something like this (this is animalistic armor), would a merchant have to commit to changing the 15/15/15 as well as the accents? Is that something to be done in one session? Seems like a fair amount of work, but also seems like it would be weird if the 15/15/15 didnt match the accents.
slender epoch
#

Sometimes, especially with complex things with lots of moving parts, you're looking at a few sessions to completely customize every facet. But some merchants are comfortable doing a bit more if they're already under the hood so to speak- best to ask how much they're willing to do workwise and plan from there.

But if you are asking for as much as possible in one sitting, be ready with fully fleshed out ideas.

frigid grove
#

I got mine done in one sitting, but yeah I was ready to go

strong meteor
#

Can any GALD merchant change the alter fields if animal gear (including animal subtype) or only Wilkes?

upbeat pendant
#

generally only wilkes messes with the animal itself

#

animal subtype specifically you have to use a certificate from the shop

#

and turn it to the subtype you want

strong meteor
#

I used the cert to make it rodent but need a merchant to make it specify the type or rodent

upbeat pendant
#

you need wilkes to specfiy the type

lime jungle
#

Just a clarification question. I tried getting something altered with firestone but it was said that I needed the gem. I assumed this was because these were only obtainable as fodder at the time. I offered a firebird stone which I had instead and was told that I didn't have to surrender it since it's a treasure system gem (I think I remember that correctly).

I checked today just out of curiosity of where I could find firestones and it appears they are treasures system gems as well. Did I need the firestone after all or is there something special about these that would require them?

tulip wing
# lime jungle Just a clarification question. I tried getting something altered with firestone ...

I think there maybe something going on behind the scenes with policy regarding fodder that we're not privy to, would be helpful for staff to give folks a heads up. I had a gem turned down for an alteration in the past few days because it was a chrism. I've used chrisms in the past, and there was zero issue. Has been several reports of other people running into weird fodder-related issues in the past few weeks as well.

That being said, best practice is to always have fodder ready for anything. Firestones could be considered rare/unusual. Something being generated by the treasure system has zero impact on whether it's needed for fodder.

lime jungle
#

Yea, I could understand that if it wasn't explicitly stated to me that day that because the firebird stone was from the system, I didn't have to surrender it even though I provided it (maybe I have to at least have it but not surrender?)

#

Agreed, always be ready with alternates or with fodder - just helps me prepare for next time.

#

Didn't help that I started confusing the two stones in my request and confused the heck out of the merchant. šŸ˜„

tulip wing
# lime jungle Yea, I could understand that if it wasn't explicitly stated to me that day that ...

That's probably just a merchant call. šŸ˜„ But for clarification, that's never been the case. There are all sorts of rare stuff generated by the treasure system you'd have to provide as fodder. My gauge is typically this: if I was going to have a item that could be endlessly duplicated, would it be allowed.

"diamond, opal, wood, metal, iron, steel, silver, etc." (good)
"firestone, everfrost, dragon's tear emerald, sephwir, etc." (need fodder)

flat matrix
#

Gems, like metals, have a rarity component. If you asked for one that was rare enough to require fodder, you would need to provide it

coral aspen
# lime jungle Just a clarification question. I tried getting something altered with firestone ...

Hi, I was the one who worked with you on this. Fodder is required after a certain rarity of gems. Firestone is a rarity 7, which requires alter fodder. In fact, if you had one in hand and ANALYZEd it, you would receive this message: You analyze the firestone and sense that the item has certain alteration restrictions. It would need to be supplied to be used in an alteration.
Anything that would be rarity 6 or under does NOT need to be supplied for alteration fodder.

lime jungle
coral aspen
#

Sorry, it's ANALYZE, not INSPECT to check for that

lament aspen
#

I think it might be both. Or appraise?

coral aspen
mossy mist
#

Sounds like we need yet another verb.
ANLYSPECPRAISE

lime jungle
warm steppe
#

ILLUMINATI my sword

#

wait that might have unexpected results

tulip wing
#

Ironically, I just completed a collection of gem jars filled with most every gem in the north. I had intended to update the gem list specifically for the Hinterwilds and add those that were missing to the wiki. I'll include the analyze details on them and update those that are missing.

Maybe a specific page for gems as fodder (similar to the the materials list that currently exist on the wiki) would be useful? I'll put one together on a subpage and see if anyone else is interested in updating gems from other realms. If so, we can move it over to its own page on the wiki. I'll make it a sortable table so it will be easy to group things by realm, rarity, etc.

coral aspen
tulip wing
#

(grin) Should I hold off?

coral aspen
#

You're more than welcome to add them, as it's a future fix and hasn't been started yet, but it will make things a bit easier to find.

neon spindle
#

speaking of gems.. i need a cool fire/plasma related gem for my daybringer lance šŸ™ƒ

upbeat pendant
tulip wing
neon spindle
#

you have as in.. have up for offering? lol

tulip wing
#

Yeah, if one of those is something you want to use, I'll snag one for you.

coral aspen
upbeat pendant
#

hmm I didn't even think to, it's been awhile. There's enough that it would be punitive for one elf to bug them all šŸ˜…

tulip wing
upbeat pendant
#

I'm happy to fund this test

#

I think you'll end up having a mix of six for the ones that work

#

personally I would start with "new" gem nouns, those seem to be the ones I recall not working.. snowdrops, firedrops, cores, etc.

#

wyrms breath sapphires do work

tulip wing
#

Might be. There are... 117 different gems that drop in the Hinterwilds alone (not all exclusive), we'll see how it goes! šŸ˜„

upbeat pendant
#

I havent tried but should try lapidary boxes, maybe if I cant use one in there, it wouldnt work in a sheath either

tulip wing
upbeat pendant
#

Yeah that's why I wasnt in a rush to bug.. I assume it would be too much work for someone to unearth sheathing

tulip wing
#

Depends on how fixated I get on it. šŸ¤£

upbeat pendant
#

But maybe its a fix that can be made to the gem

split dagger
tulip wing
#

I'm working on building the discussed master gem table (starting with HW), and just noting that razern-blooms, rhimar-blooms, and aranthium-blooms (each inspect as being made of their respective material) all indicate that they are not needed as fodder, however their metal counterparts DO require the metal as fodder. Not sure if that's intended, and I'll make a notation on the table, but wondering if I should bug them?

coral aspen
#

They are considered gems and are handled separately from actual metals.

#

Additionally, there is a master list of gems already on the wiki, if that's where you're working on this, so I'm hoping the intent is to update that, if so, as opposed to creating a full new list?

#

But this is also the reason why the gems are on the list for updates to handling... reduce duplicated efforts

tulip wing
# coral aspen Additionally, there is a master list of gems already on the wiki, if that's wher...

(unless I'm missing a page somewhere) The gem category with linked page pages that are lists by noun have quite a bit missing from the info, not to mention missing tons of gems just missing entirely. They also don't include any of the new inspect/analyze information. It feels a sort of a mess. I realize it's on the to-do list to update/change, but honestly, I am working from a ground-up approach building this table which includes all the details for each, because there's not a single gem that doesn't need info updated out there already. If I'm gathering the info for them all anyway, might as well confirm all the details?

On this table, I'm including: gem name, jarred name, noun, predominant color, base material, value, rarity (inspect), fodder check (analyze), show description, and individual flags for various realms (which eventually can be used to tag categories to gems for various realms). Other requests have been adding a flag whether or not the gem works with various scripts/systems.

lime jungle
#

Firestone description:
Translucent crimson and black, a firestone displays a smooth, though irregularly shaped, exterior. Inside, the shiny black spots appear to move extremely slowly through a thick, glowing red liquid, almost as cooled spots of magma float atop the fiery liquid of an active lava flow. The gem's outside, however, is solid, and the stone radiates no heat whatsoever.

Is it acceptable to include something like 'swirling' or an adjective in the LONG that would make sense because of an item's SHOW?

idle bear
#

that description still seems to imply the movement, rather than say it's there, so I'd push more for "swirled", like "swirled with shiny black motes"

fleet cloud
#

Motes...seems more fleck'd to me šŸ˜‰

#

Ugh der'sa mote inna my eye!

celest smelt
#

If wanted my leather pauldrons changed to sharkskin pauldrons, would I need some shark skin? Are there sharks to skin?

idle bear
#

mundane critters from earth are allowed in alterations without providing fodder. Alter 42 for more details.

celest smelt
#

Ok, a shark seemed like it might be exotic-ish. Thanks!

celest smelt
#

One more question. If my pauldrons were "tooled with frolicking otters" would that imply movement or show the otters being playful?

long niche
#

Show the otters being playful

#

I can picture an image where otters are clearly frolicking without there being actual movement involved. šŸ™‚

#

And the "tooled" also indicates it's a static design. It'd be different if you wanted "rippling with frolicking otters" or something xD

celest smelt
#

That's what I was thinking but I had doubts, thanks for clearing it up. šŸ™‚

silent vapor
#

Do we have an Elanthian word for macrame? Or is it just... macrame?

lament aspen
#

From my QC notes: The word "macrame" is too modern for our use, but the
description of the artform predates the term by centuries. please
remove the word "macrame" from the description.
It can be described as anything like "a decoratively knotted, a
square-knotted (one of its previous names), a fancifully knotted...
etc or alternative description of your choosing

silent vapor
#

square-knotted could work.

#

Thank you, Vanah!

kind drift
#

Alteration question: Could I take a Globus Elanthias Staff with normal ice flares, and add GEF Lightning flares with the HESS cert?

coral aspen
kind drift
#

Well now I have to find a way to make a staff that steals the souls of the dead more murderous another way.

idle bear
#

At that point you're looking for a flourish

mossy mist
#

Or material.

slender epoch
#

A material could be a contender as well for debuffs or effects (ghezyte, somnis, surita); but more damage? Flourish is probably it.

idle bear
#

Oh, true. Probably should do material first

mossy mist
#

Hot take, Globus script isn't worth investments of those levels

#

It's a fantastic flavor script, and plenty good on its own

#

But like Iasha, it's got its feet cut out from under it out the gate

slender epoch
#

Globus did not like a Firewheel transmute for sureā€¦ turned it into steam.

#

(Mainly because globus only exists with the 3 flares; cold, steam, and vacuum)

mossy mist
#

Very cool script, but if you're looking for a long term project that makes sense to invest to the levels of flourish/transmute - it would not be a contender for me

strong meteor
#

has anyone done a short or show (or both) alter to their locus? it's not thematic and I'd like to turn it into something that fits me...anyone tried and ran into any limitations?

brittle coral
#

Globus Elanthias might not but the other one might.

#

Globus Demonicus (I forget the actual name)

coral aspen
brittle coral
#

That's it!

#

Thank you.

fleet cloud
strong meteor
#

For those of you who have a sprite script item...how customized have you made your sprite? I'm pondering getting one but would like to see how flexible people have been able to be with their sprites. Love to see what any of you have done with them

mossy mist
#

The actual sprite you can only change the color of

strong meteor
#

ah okay so always stuck with the blob of light...

#

meh

#

was hoping for

#

ah well images not working here nevermind

mossy mist
#

Why are you assuming they're a blob of light?

#

I'm not aware of any descriptions of them tbh, now I'm curious. I always imagined something more like a tinkerbell, though less humanoid

tulip wing
# strong meteor ah well images not working here nevermind

You might check into finding a winged wisp pet. It's still a "spark" of luminesce, but does have the fluttering wings. Not sure where they originally came from, but I know there's at least one more out there. If you altered the wisp color, could lean into it all being the same creature.
This is Myharl's: https://gswiki.play.net/File:GSIV_Myharl_Munin_Winged-Wisp.png
The tiny wisp looks like nothing more than a glowing cerulean spark. Peering closely, you can barely make out a pair of miniscule wings, beating so rapidly it's almost impossible to see much more than a blur. The creature is otherworldly, something rare and mysterious, and it possesses a mesmerizing quality of immortality.

stiff rose
#

Sprite weapon sprites are noted to have at the very least both wings and hands in the messaging, so they're not really "just" a ball of light.

strong meteor
#

yeah if I could customize it a bit it might be a fun RP addition to my menagerie

lime jungle
#

What parts of animal spirit armor are currently allowed to be handled via Sadie?

strong meteor
#

I think Sadie can do the external short name and basic show of the armor but can't do the alterations of the sprites or the flares (similar to animal)

lime jungle
#

So not the coverages either

slender epoch
#

Any customization portion not related to the animal noun, sound, or animal group noun should be fine as the rest can all be done via regular GALD sessions. Usually 3 custom fields per 300 points.

#

Or a short (15:15:15) with a show or a long.

strong meteor
#

on an alteration, if you have a show alter...and want to add something written or carved on it that has to be read (like a name) is that a separate alter or part of the show alter? and can sadie do that or is it merchant only?

lament aspen
#

Generally you can request reads as part of a normal alteration. It's not considered a separate customization

slender epoch
#

You can also get other languages than common as well if the merchant feels comfortable doing that/is that race. Iā€™ve got a pegleg and a single boot that read LEFT and RIGHT in dwarven.

lime jungle
#

Can any GALD merchant unlock a peretta cloak?

#

Just found an OTS one in my locker I'd love to unlock but not sure how.

coral aspen
#

Unlocks tend to be limited to very few and select merchants

tacit ermine
#

Mark your calendars! Elanthian Elegance Merchant Week prep sessions at Naidem: #festivals-and-events message

lime jungle
#

Or do I need to go to specific ones

coral aspen
#

It is better to assume that unless the ANALYZE specifically says anyone can unlock it that standard GALD merchants can't. Those who can unlock perettas or any other similar item will typically announce if they can, or will.

lime jungle
#

Ooo, Duplicity, an EG merchant.. šŸ‘€

wheat remnant
#

how/where do we get ghoul fangs unlocks?

zinc plank
#

EG was the place, but the GM who ran that merchant isn't on staff anymore so... šŸ¤·ā€ā™€ļø I'm assuming you mean Ghule Fangs?

wheat remnant
#

yes ok we'll see what I can do at EG

lime jungle
#

How does a bone shaman cloak work in regards to changing it between cloak/coat/robe items? Is that just included as part of the alteration?

Does the item type change the verbs or zests on the item, the closures, or adornments? It says it's currently set to cloak-item. I assume that changes something?

#

I'm asking because if my alter makes it a robe, for example, I wonder if it's possible to get access to those changes on the wiki (or just paste them here and I can help to add them to the wiki).

safe umbra
#

Some of the messages change slightly and the closures they use have different requirements (IE robe needs like a belt or a sash closure, coat needs buttons/toggles, etc.)

lime jungle
grim kelp
#

I see "talon" on the alteration noun list wiki page for the finger slot. Does that really mean I could get talon as the noun, or would it have to be "talon ring"?

tulip wing
# grim kelp I see "talon" on the alteration noun list wiki page for the finger slot. Does th...

Will always depend on the merchant, but the scripts related to the concept seem to all be "talon rings", but I'm fairly sure there are "talons" as a noun as well, as in "witch talons", unfortunately they've never been documented so I don't have any detailed examples to point you towards. It's hard to tell really without asking a merchant about to do work for you. I tend to go for what I want, and have backup ideas. If they won't do talon, then you can do talon ring, maybe?

grim kelp
#

I was trying to move the noun away from "ring" and "band" since I have many of those right now. I'll have to think about back up options.

lime jungle
#

Finger talon?

verbal swan
#

pretty sure there are finger-talons IG.

rotund inlet
#

there are also finger puppets and finger armor

slender epoch
#

Thumb-ring is another option

rotund inlet
#

i wonder if they would let you make a thimble? i've seen thimbles around but not worn ones, which is odd.

tacit ermine
#

Merchant Week is getting closer - everybody panic!
Wait, no, don't panic. Elanthian Elegance is here to help! Meet up in Ember Ridge Orchard in Naidem to go through your list and solidify your ideas before Merchant Week starts, so you aren't THAT PERSON in the merchant line.

Sunday, October 6 at 6pm ET
Thursday, October 10 at 9pm ET
Monday, October 14 at 4pm ET

tulip sorrel
#

Hmm does nacreous shadowed make sense to anyone?

#

too long even if it did make sense.

long niche
#

What are you trying to make?

grim kelp
#

Might make sense to use nacreous as an adjective in the base description and shadowed as a verb in part of the long description?

warm steppe
#

a "shadowy nacreous" might work better depending what it is

long niche
#

Shadowy nacreous still kind of are the same type of adjective, so I'd recommend more like what Lanzerik is saying, most likely. But I'd have to know what it is first.

warm steppe
#

yeah hard to say without knowing the type of object

fleet cloud
#

A good riter will use a 3 dollar word in concert wit a simpler one. A pompous stuck up riter wont.

upbeat pendant
#

Can we provide some more info onto the glaes wiki page? Gizwizit does not need to doxx themselves, but friends of mine besides myself have been a bit confused about the "obsidian but translucent but black but rainbow" so some clarification on the wiki page would be great

fleet cloud
#

A good riter wouldnt use conflictin conjunctshuns! But also and or maybe Imma idjit but and also maybe or not!

tulip wing
# upbeat pendant Can we provide some more info onto the glaes wiki page? Gizwizit does not need t...

Can you provide a bit more context about what the confusion is?

Glaes is dark, slightly translucent non-metallic material that was formed in the heart of volcanos. It is indicated to have a "smokey translucent" hue ā€” which makes sense for "translucent black". Glaes from the Darkstone Bay area (which was relatively rare in the past) was often known as mein, it can still be found incorporated in structures in the Landing and from mein golems.

[As a side note, mein was the "interim" term during the shift from I.C.E. age terms to modern terms, one of only two materials that had a third name shift to the final modern form (the other being lyshalvaon becoming urnon), and as far as I can tell it likely survived that transition with both terms in tact because of conflation during the staged "de-ICEing" and the release of Teras Isle with its focus on glaes (why the Mining Company there went into business) being within months of eachother.]

Glaes became more abundant after huge deposits were found in Teras. Rainbow glaes is the rarest type of glaes and only found in the mines around Teras Isle.

Its root lore is in Laen (the I.C.E. Age term for glaes), which was specified as a "volcanic glass" with its strength attributed to the material's long crystal lattice structure. It is not obsidian as it has an entirely different molecular makeup: It has an inverted thermodynamic profile, becoming stronger and more rigid with heat. It is only softened by subjecting it to extreme cold temperatures using magical furnaces.

Does any of that answer your question?

tulip sorrel
#

Sorry, I didn't realize anyone answered cause the post didn't show up again on the side until today.
a nacreous shadowed plumille cloak
Was the thought but I just removed the shadowed.

worn mica
#

I have a question about the Alcohol Bottle Contraption alterations. Does it fall under the Glad? for the labels and for the modifications. I know it's a complicated piece I am still learning how to present it properly and don't want to being annoying during the services. And is each ONE slot count as a service? So I'd have to visit multiple times to get more than one spot completed? (this is not a complaint or a call out just clarification. I really love the contraption and the ability to create a lovely bottle look for the drinks I make)

coral aspen
# worn mica I have a question about the Alcohol Bottle Contraption alterations. Does it fall...

That could be considered GALD, however there might be merchants who decline to work on it because of the complicated nature of them. Additionally, unless the analyze specifically states how many can be done in one session, assume that it is a single customization per session. Some merchants may offer more, but otherwise, always assume 1. Generally speaking, the script owner will call out what could be done in a single session, eg. yarn bowls, I believe, can have 2 customizations added in a single session.

worn mica
#

Awe perfect I'll come with alternative projects too then. I was only going to come with the contraption But knowing how complicated it is, I'll plan a few different things. Thank you so much!

frozen sierra
#

So, for say the scrimshaw knives...

Custom Weaveable Item Adjectives: 1 of 10 Unlocked

Each unlock would be one merchant session?

coral aspen
#

I don't know anything about those in this context. "Unlocked" has a different connotation when it comes to items than "customizations", so it might be best to ask the merchant during the session as it may need eyes on to make a determination.

frozen sierra
#

Custom Weaveable Item Adjectives: 1 of 10 Unlocked
Custom Weaveable Bead Articles - 3 of 10 Unlocked
Custom Hairsticks Designs - 3 of 10 Unlocked
Custom Lock Mastery Clasp Nouns - 1 of 10 Unlocked

Hopefully I'll be able to catch them and find out! heh

worn mica
#

Keruta I know I have to buy "slots" for my contraption as well, and each category has it's own ability to add a new custom slot. based on what Xera just said I'd it looks like unless the Merchant specifies how many they will complete in one setting. It's subjective to the merchant their knowledge of the item based on complexity and time.

#

Like I've had someone willing to completely deck out one of my food baskets once But another time only willing to touch one item. The contraption is so detailed I was afraid of the 1 service per line. It's going to take me a few years to get it fully completed at that rate. NOT a complaint just a plan!

#

I might try and catch Spookia ALL EBON! sorry Spookia in advance I'm gonna stalk ya! wait don't run..

coral aspen
#

I suppose now would be a good time to remind people that if you use Sadie scrolls, Sadie can do up to 3 total customizations on an item for 300 points.

frozen sierra
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I was about to ask.

worn mica
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awe thank you for clerifying the 3 total limit.<3!~

verbal swan
frozen sierra
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The three hairstick designs are probably the hardest since they're full descriptions, whereas the other 5 unlocks I did are just one word, or one 15ct slot.

#

We'll see how merchant week goes! šŸ™‚

verbal swan
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Read the analyze carefully. It could very well state how many customizations (of which types) would be considered a GALD. As always, depends on the merchant, though. My suggestion would be to have as many prepared as possible. You never know.

worn mica
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So After all these years I have finally come to the realization that I've used a bodice in the wrong method. I, for some unknown reason, have thought a bodice to be the white shirt underneath a corset. When in fact a bodice is a corset! How did I come to this realization? when I tried to alter the bodice and was offered Corset as an option, NOT shirt or undershirt. So wow I am Sooo not good with clothes and their functions hehe so with that said, I will move forward with greater knowledge today of the use of Bodice. Thank you.
PS Opalina will no longer be wearing a Bodice and Corset at the same time.

golden tusk
lament aspen
golden tusk
worn mica
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hum.. This is how I came to the conclusion I did Miss Lithyia. "Your lily white bodice shimmers and vanishes! You see an image of the bodice appear on the left side of the book.

1
You flip to page 1 of the leather order book, entitled "Nouns."

You see the following options: bodice, corset, corsets, cincher, waist-cincher, half-bodice, none."

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That alone tells me that Bodice=Corset. of course I can wear them at the same time but they are essensially the same "type" of item. a piece of material that wraps around another Not a shirt/tunic.

stiff rose
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Modern "corsets" are often worn over clothes now, so the term is used in GS for both types of corsets - historical style worn under garments and their modern counterparts worn over.

worn mica
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All Im sayin is I now understand it's not the same as an undershirt :giggles: A bodice is not a tunic or shirt which is "how" I was using it and that is incorrect.

rotund inlet
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nouns are just options of things that can be worn in a particular inventory spot. they don't necessarily mean you can only wear one of that thing in that spot! a bodice could refer to the top portion of a gown/dress, too.

trail geode
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a corset is a kind of leather armor

rotund inlet
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the armor noun is corselet. i don't think you can have an armor "corset" unless it's robes.

worn mica
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Exactly!

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you are all correct!

rotund inlet
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oh you can have a corset, too.

worn mica
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yep!

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BUT they are not "undershirts!" I was treating the bodice as if it was the White shirt underneath..

rotund inlet
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it can be

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like i wouldn't think it's weird if you put a cincher over a bodice...

worn mica
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vs.

tulip wing
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You're not alone in that assumption. I had always assumed a corset was an undergarment worn over a chemise then covered by a gown and stomacher. I always wondered in GS why so many corsets were described as bodices. My exposure to period style dress has been limited to writing a few period themed pieces in the past (so I am a very far cry from an expert).

worn mica
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Chemise is a much better word for undershirt. still not a bodice.

zinc plank
golden tusk
# worn mica Chemise is a much better word for undershirt. still not a bodice.

Correct. And you would wear your bodice OVER the chemise. The corset (traditionally) would be worn under the chemise. However with things like steampunk and fantasy or even modern fashion, you could wear your corset over the chemise. But a bodice and a corset are not the same and they can be worn together and now you can go forth and have lots of fun with both of them.

trail geode
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To be clear I thought it would be obvious I was kidding but I obviously messed up lol

worn mica
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a bodice is not a chemise or an undershirt.. was all i was sayin. It's more like the cinchers or the corsets. and THAT was my realization!

golden tusk
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Should we wade into what a basque is...depending on the time period... LOL!

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Because Lithy has a basque and it is styled after a Victorian basque and not a Freddie's of Hollywood basque... LOL

worn mica
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Thank you for being patient with me.

zinc plank
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Chemises/shifts were worn under a corset, as you would never wear one directly against the skin

golden tusk
tulip wing
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As a side note, this is also why I enjoy seeing all the various Elanthian culture garments. To me for some reason it feels more organic; like they evolved in a fantasy-centric world. I've never really put a lot of thought into "accuracy" and more just appreciated the overall concept of outfits folks are wearing.

golden tusk
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I always wore mine for steampunk OVER a chemise.. cause otherwise... chafing!

zinc plank
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I mean, if we're talking from a historical perspective.

golden tusk
zinc plank
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It's horrible for your expensive, difficult to launder corset to wear it against the skin. If people want to be dumb they can be dumb.

zinc plank
golden tusk
# zinc plank And also, yes. Chafing.

so much ouch. Give me a nice chemise or blouse anyday! Also, i prefer bodices over corsets but that's just me. Comfort and all that. But I've worn my share of corsets for cosplay.

timber fiber
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Kyaloria is correct. It was technically chemise, chainse or shift > corset and petticoats > stomacher, gown or bodice and skirt

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Then add sleeves and collars, ruffs and capes

golden tusk
#

we need more stomachers in GS

#

interchangeable stomachers

zinc plank
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Interchangeable stomachers that themselves act like Veolas

golden tusk
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Poor Opalina is probably over here googling all this stuff

worn mica
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That Helps so much! I mean it's easy to get lost in all the ways these layers of clothings works.

golden tusk
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Opalina... go google... "codpiece"

tulip wing
# golden tusk interchangeable stomachers

I had assumed there were. There's that whole line of "interchangeable" clothing with like the cravets and ruffs. Surprised they weren't worked into gowns as well.

golden tusk
worn mica
golden tusk
#

šŸ˜‚

timber fiber
golden tusk
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@prisma plover is really upset that we dont have codpieces in GS

zinc plank
worn mica
#

I got this sadly not as awesome.

golden tusk
worn mica
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Kilt even

zinc plank
timber fiber
golden tusk
worn mica
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so not a kilt?

timber fiber
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Definitely not a kilt

golden tusk
#

cotehardie

OIP.png
timber fiber
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Especially given the relationship between the English and the Scots at that time šŸ˜†

golden tusk
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Opalina... google... "pumpkin pants"

timber fiber
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Galligaskins!

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Sorry, Iā€™ll stop being a British nerd and leave you in peace

golden tusk
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Should we explain the differences now between kirtles, bliauts and houpelandes?

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OR is that for the advanced class?

worn mica
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yes because apparently I think MY Houpelande is now being worn wrong

timber fiber
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Letā€™s not blow a fuse in her brain

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Houppelande is over

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For the purposes of layering in GS

golden tusk
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I am a big fan of the bliaut

timber fiber
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Me too

golden tusk
#

also, let's talk about how girdles are actually long belts...

worn mica
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Okay so my Armor is a houplande! I feel dirty now.

frozen sierra
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get rid of it

timber fiber
worn mica
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I can't!

#

Well Opalina is a monk

golden tusk
#

We could also cover burnoose, mantles, capelets, capes, cloaks, longcloaks, longcoats.....

worn mica
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The houppelande's sleeves have been ripped from the dress, leaving tiny silk threads dangling from the curve of each shoulder. The v-neckline top camisole is lined with buttery-soft lambskin which folds out over the edge, creating a soft collar. A series of veniom chains wraps around the waist, adding a dramatic flair into the pleated skirts. The ankle-length, elesine-trimmed skirts have thigh-high slits which allow for extra mobility to the wearer. You also notice a small enchanter's glyph. A strange necrotic haze radiates from the houppelande. A strong aura of holy light radiates from the houppelande.

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So all this time I've created a strangely incorrect piece of gear?

timber fiber
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Yeah, I hate to break it to you but thatā€™s not a houppelande

golden tusk
#

Rohese over here just crushing dreams.

worn mica
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I guess it's what's left of a houppelande then.. completely remodeled fashonista over here Opalina in a category all her own.

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I was going off something like this..

image.png