#Loot cap is awesome!

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

vivid locust
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REALM thought hits everyone in OSA in the world

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the room name distinctions seem mostly flavor and maybe weather?

timber nova
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ah ok. so it only really looks like that on the map but not actually

vivid locust
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I definitely has a weather component by sea

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but beyond that, dunno

timber nova
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ah. so there is some sort of identity to sea because the guy will tell you where the storms are to which sea? and also where the floatilla is?

vivid locust
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Yes

timber nova
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you'd think you could incorporate that into the loot pressure zoning

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since there is some sort of identity attached to it

vivid locust
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but for me to guess how that works code wise would be me literally spitting from my rear

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I do know the whole OSA system is on the same loot pressure. I remember the first few days. I hit a krol brig with a friend. It was like 25 foes. We ended up with 18 boxes, weapon and armor drops, gems galore, etc. It was nuts

timber nova
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I guess you could possibly tell if it's in a different area from the gem drops. But I think from what I recall it was only different in the boxes you received at the docks with shells and stuff

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I haven't really done OSA for like a year now

elfin latch
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he tuned back the krol after a while, so thats some of the loss there

timber nova
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Krol always had weapons and stuff that sold for good coins

elfin latch
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they were from TW and dropping all sorts of extras they shouldnt have

vivid locust
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That makes sense. Felt EXACTLY like TW

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update on the 20 min HW hunt. Boxes opened Total for 20 mins in Pit with boxes this morning [bank: New balance for the day: 123891]

timber nova
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having the box pool and premium access from HW really made that area a loot efficiency haven

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not that you really need premium access there (I don't have it)

merry swan
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there's a box pool in HW, so you dont need FWI

timber nova
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yup

sturdy terrace
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FWI is just nice for pawnshop access

timber nova
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I use it all the time to quickly dump boxes

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and you can sell gems there and have a bank so you won't get too encumbered. easy to dump and head right back out

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even though scatter loot is a bit lower than HW the entrance mechanic really cuts into efficiency.

merry swan
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so HW has everything except for the pawnshop i guess?>

timber nova
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yeah that's the only thing I think unless there is one hidden

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have a furrier for bounties and can unload those

sturdy terrace
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No pawnshop in Cold River. It’s the only sell-off shop they don’t have. No NPC cleric either. Those are really the only two common town amenities absent

timber nova
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death in HW really really sucks

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lack of clerics around at times makes salve king even more

orchid cliff
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One of the larger reasons is because you dont want to bring your cleric there for XP since the XP side is lacking

timber nova
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yeah. bounties just take too long to be efficient for the return there

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for the reward you get

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that's probably the case for any ascension bounty (including ME)

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trying to find 20 some conjurers specifically. uggghh...

orchid cliff
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Sadly, yea. And you can old fashion style hunt, but it's too dangerous in the pits (worth it for $$) to do in an MA group, and the east side is similar to Nelemar for $$

timber nova
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I don't sell silvers for cash but if you look at the silver value to cash value. Loot hunting in general is not worth the time too. heh...

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a focused hour for 4 bucks if that

merry swan
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i'd agree but you probably just convinced another person to do it. 4 WHOLE BUCKS!

orchid cliff
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Does the wagon up there restrict based on level?

timber nova
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I don't think so, when I had my cleric active I ran them in multiple times to rezz my other characters. Now down to one account

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they were only like 60

merry swan
elfin latch
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did an hour in ME, still waiting for 14 boxes back from the pool but the numbers look like its gonna line up with my SoS hunt.

vivid locust
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Pit stays less busy player wise because disir sheer fear is REAL. If i let my symbols slip, even with Voln armor I can get minor fear

vivid locust
elfin latch
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I didnt count boxes

vivid locust
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but if its no better than SoS, that's a mess

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Cause SoS is a joke for someone who can do HW

elfin latch
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its at 679,318. but its missing 14 boxes of loot right now

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I also had 7 min of down time due to dread.

sturdy terrace
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I bet those 7 minutes were fun though. Almost as much fun as roundtime

vivid locust
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huh....why did dread take 7 mins to cook down?

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i takes me like max 2 mins?

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oh, was this cumulative?

orchid cliff
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That's one way to cap loot hunting, cumulative debuffs

vivid locust
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I'm pretty sure that was the concept, yeah. I don't really mind the dread concept mostly because I've fried in one combat before due to how swarmy it can get

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but it does make it a very hard hunting ground

elfin latch
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I could have pushed through it I guess but meh...

grim plume
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The grouping logic that would apply to some groups when determining if they reached the treasure cap has been removed.

vagrant hull
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I am glad to see that, it was a reasonable point of contention

formal tulip
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While I'm doubtful I can get it, I shall still ask - is there any further detail on if any grouping penalties remain? Presumably grouping shouldn't let a person dodge their own penalties, but if a person at the cap is part of a party and completely refrains from looting, should they no longer affect the loot others get (and it's up to the others if they want to share with somebody known to be at cap, which is player to player?)?

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(Sorry, it's the "some groups" that I'm hung up on. It implies either A) only some groups were affected in the first place or B) all groups were affected and now some are not)

elfin latch
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you don't infect others with looties, so yea you could rotate looters now, to by pass someone else loot cap and give them their sliver split, hopeful no one goes out and abuses this to the point we need to put it back in. its a nice update for those of us who like to play a lot but don't want to screw over others that we'd like to hunt with sometimes.

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for me personally I run bandits with some friends whom ever is the leader just keeps all the gems. So this is really nice for us as if I want to push my silver hunting or have just played an unreasonable amount for the month I am still only punishing myself and not them.

formal tulip
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I feel like grouping up with somebody else and giving them half your silver isn't really bypassing their cap though, as frankly you can give them your loot even if they didn't help and would that be bypassing their cap? Anyway, yeah, we'll see how it shifts the needle, but I anticipate that if silver generation spikes, they'll downcap over re-introducing loot penalties, playing with friends brings a lot of value

elfin latch
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the group loot cap sharing thing was the only part of the loot cap I strongly disagreed with so I am very pleased at this update.

formal tulip
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agreed

timber nova
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yeah, a great fix

woven elm
random orchid
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@dense ferry it more means that under some circumstances when grouping with people affected by loot cap that it was also negatively applying to the others in the group even when that person under the effects of loot cap wasn't leading. This has been removed. Basically, loot cap is now solo only and if that person joins a group, it doesn't affect the other party members if those are the party members looting. It's a win/win for now as long as it's not abused and reapplied.

dense ferry
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The announcement isn't super clear. Is there some discussion about it somewhere other than the announcement that says "some groups"

random orchid
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It's basically that, it's in response to the creating adventure quote:

We will be removing the grouping penalties that were occurring with determining treasure. We will continue to keep an eye on how this impacts the game. If we notice a huge uptick in silver generation, we may need to put it back in place or try something new out.
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The "some groups" is just a bad choice of words for the fact that not all groups have people in them that have hit loot cap.

dense ferry
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Could be bad choice of words in the announcement.

random orchid
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So for the ones that didn't group with loot cap people, they're not going to see any change. Hence the use of "Some groups".

dense ferry
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But what's GS if it doesn't leave you with questions when things are announced.

random orchid
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Considering how grey loot cap determination is, it would be nice to have some sort of ability to be like:

>lootcap
You're currently not being affected by loot cap to receive less loot while looting.

>lootcap
You're currently experiencing a 50% reduction in loot rewards while looting.

>lootcap
You're currently experincing no loot due to reaching the maximum monthly loot cap while looting
dense ferry
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I understand your interpretation.

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Doubt they would give us %, but an indication of you have hit soft cap, or you have hit hard cap would be nice

random orchid
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And also something like:

>lootcap
You've not yet reached loot cap, but current group members have your reduction at 30%.
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Or whatever.

bronze onyx
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I would absolutely adore a lootcap verb for exactly these reasons.

sweet vapor
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I agree something would be good - even if it's very vague on the details - just because I bet there are many people near the end of the month thinking maybe they're soft capped and they're not...so the verb would take away the worry.

wise charm
iron rune
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i asked about this before and wyroms response was that it would allow people to figure out ways to circumvent the mechanic so they werent going too

formal tulip
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Yeah, my push on knowing if you're under loot penalty was about very general terms. You are in soft cap., and then like only at 25% 50% and 90% penalties or something

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This is the first month I've farmed hard, but it almost looks like I've managed to trigger the cap even though no individuals in my group should even be in soft cap. Of course that's now all out the window.

iron rune
formal tulip
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nah, there's no real evidence that the cap is cumulative across accounts, and we've been outright told there's no way to see linkages in game

timber nova
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it should never be cumulative across accounts. you pay the same subscription fee per account and it should not devalue your account you are paying for.

formal tulip
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yeah. It only seemed like just having them together moment in time was affecting it, and it was only some level of softage. It's just that it doesn't seem like previously you even needed any member to be in soft cap, if you had a group with several members not in soft cap, you could still end up in soft cap. I'll be keeping an eye on where things end up now

timber nova
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yeah for me I had 1 account barely into soft cap and the others weren't in soft cap and it causes almost no loot to drop

formal tulip
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but I can outright say that if it was account cumulative, I'd see not a silver, and wyroms reports would be a lot less wobbly

merry swan
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will your skins decrease in self-appraised value AND/OR sale at the furrier at SOFT/HARD cap?

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trying to pin down a way to see if i'm under any cap (i'm not)

iron rune
merry swan
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Ok that's one piece of the puzzle lol

zealous ether
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Did Wyrom specify in other words in how he felt it could be abused?

merry swan
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if I knew I was on soft cap, i'd move onto a different character to hunt for loot....if i was a loot hunter

bronze onyx
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Couldn't people do that anyway if they started noticing they weren't getting the same kind of loot? What does knowing for sure with lootcap as a verb change, really? (serious question, not antagonizing)

formal tulip
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It's account based.

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We've been told SOME activity doesn't count against cap, the fear is that we'd figure out which and just do that exclusively

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My counter is anybody seriously after silvers has figured it out by now

bronze onyx
sweet vapor
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Run an experiment every month: track your gains and try to get to about 15m so you know you're close to the soft cap. Then choose ONE activity to make silvers and do that excessively until you hit the soft cap, or earn enough silvers to be fairly certain that you've identified something that doesn't count.

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Or maybe track silver gains by category - and determine the variance between when your lich script says you should hit the soft cap and when the game tells you you're soft capped. Analyze that amount and compare to your categories - perhaps that number helps to tell you which category is not being counted.

clever lava
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I think it's pretty simple, loot and skin count. Picking up random trash probably doesn't, because it would be difficult to track.

merry swan
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I don't think i'm able to get 15m hunting. I just don't have that focus

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if i really go all out i think i can pull 1m a week

woven elm
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I think this brief brainstorming activity shows clearly why wyrom’s answer was more like “I don’t know exactly how players would use this information to circumvent the loot cap but I don’t really want to let them figure it out”

clever lava
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They started to lock down ways to circumvent it when people were selling crystal weapons to get around it

keen ocean
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Only thing I can think of is the locksmith pool

atomic raven
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(Not sure if accurate*)

clever lava
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Locksmith pool and selling trash are the only things I think break it.

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Gem singing I suppose would be included in that

formal tulip
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They've been clear the locksmith doesn't count though. Same with saying purification doesnt

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So either it's some other way, or they're worried they don't know the other ways

atomic raven
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The first 3 people to hit hard loot cap per month should be awarded full RPA..... Reward the achievers

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A weekly loot scoreboard would be awesome, no details just names

elfin latch
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I mean someone could really track it all if they REALLY REALLY wanted to and likely figure out how to game it but I don't think they want to give us tool to make that easier to do. which is understandable

elfin latch
atomic raven
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Why is Simu persecuting the high achievers who manually silver farm for 20 hours a day, taking food off their family's table.... dam lootcap

granite hamlet
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it's not like they don't track the silver gen rates, though, right? So on the monthly review they'd see playerX made 3x the cap >investigate >evolve ruleset. Surely players couldn't continue to bypass an obfuscated ruleset month over month while its being monitored

atomic raven
elfin latch
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I'm not even talking about scripting, I'm just talking about giving people a carrot to chase to make them earn more silvers seems counter productive to the intention of the loot cap.

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making it a contest would likely draw more people to try it.

elfin latch
granite hamlet
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that's already the scenario, I think?

elfin latch
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I'd personally rather see effort put into ways to make us spend our silvers that remove them from the game vs building on systems that slow the inflow of silvers

elfin latch
woven elm
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not to mention the player impact melivn has mentioned

clever lava
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There are only so many ways to generate loot.

merry swan
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not sure if it's a coincidence but i've noticed a couple script-MA teams out in force today

elfin latch
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people out there gonna start selling javelins again from kobs

elfin latch
strange bloom
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Just getting back to this, it's by design. You can run individual queries though for per char info

elfin latch
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hour in OTF north 294,780

# 
hour in ME 752,343
hour in Atoll 577,461
hour in sanctum 644,694
hour in HW pits 1,284,184
hour in HW Forest/first village 998,882```
vagrant hull
vivid locust
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Good question. We were told the castle has significantly better loot

elfin latch
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Without Kitac there and his 15 accounts it wasnt terrible.

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vampires still yeet them self into other room when they die

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thats fun

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at the start of the month I'll try and circle back through some of these places and hit the dual zones, like nelemar 3 vs 2 and Atoll temple vs outside ect ect

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the constructs in OTF is were a lot of that silver came from too

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I had to bring an animate

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so your average caster is SOL

vivid locust
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sounds right. critters that get a skip are better loot

random orchid
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You'd need to overload the default code print function by doing something like the following that you run in some sort of script you add add to your ;autostart list

sleep(1) until defined?(Ledger)

module Ledger
 module History
    module Query
      def self.char_yearly_gain_loss(year: Time.now.year, type:)
        Transactions
          .where(character: Char.name, year: year, type: type)
          .sum(:amount) || 0
      end
      def self.char_monthly_gain_loss(month: Time.now.month, year: Time.now.year, type:)
        Transactions
          .where(character: Char.name, month: month, year: year, type: type)
          .sum(:amount) || 0
      end
      def self.char_daily_gain_loss(day: Time.now.day, month: Time.now.month, year: Time.now.year, type:)
        Transactions
          .where(character: Char.name, month: month, year: year, day: day, type: type)
          .sum(:amount) || 0
      end
      def self.char_hourly_gain_loss(hour: Time.now.hour, day: Time.now.day, month: Time.now.month, year: Time.now.year, type:)
        Transactions
          .where(character: Char.name, month: month, year: year, day: day, hour: hour, type: type)
          .sum(:amount) || 0
      end
    end
    def self.table()
      self.allowed_types.map {|resource|
        [ Char.name,
          resource, 
          with_commas(Query.char_hourly_gain_loss(type: resource)),
          with_commas(Query.char_daily_gain_loss(type: resource)),
          with_commas(Query.char_monthly_gain_loss(type: resource)),
          with_commas(Query.char_yearly_gain_loss(type: resource)),
        ]
      } + 
      self.allowed_types.map {|resource|
        [ "Total",
          resource, 
          with_commas(Query.hourly_gain_loss(type: resource)),
          with_commas(Query.daily_gain_loss(type: resource)),
          with_commas(Query.monthly_gain_loss(type: resource)),
          with_commas(Query.yearly_gain_loss(type: resource)),
        ]
      }
    end
    def self.print()
      table = Terminal::Table.new(
        headings: %w(_ resource hourly daily monthly yearly),
        rows:     self.table)
      
      table.align_column(2, :right)
      table.align_column(3, :right)
      table.align_column(4, :right)
      table.align_column(5, :right)
      
      _respond "<output class=\"mono\"/>\n" + table.to_s + "\n<output class=\"\"/>"
    end
  end
end
#

Which then gives you output that would look like:

+--------+----------+--------+-------+-----------+-----------+
| _      | resource | hourly | daily | monthly   | yearly    |
+--------+----------+--------+-------+-----------+-----------+
| Tysong | silver   |      0 |     0 | 2,908,926 | 2,908,926 |
| Tysong | bounty   |      0 |     0 |    56,514 |    56,514 |
| Total  | silver   |      0 |     0 | 3,548,931 | 3,548,931 |
| Total  | bounty   |      0 |     0 |   118,728 |   118,728 |
+--------+----------+--------+-------+-----------+-----------+
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Also pushed an update out for ;ledger that should force monospacing for those that don't use monospaced fonts

strange bloom
random orchid
woven elm
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listen they wouldn't have chosen verdana as the default font if it wasn't the correct choice

strange bloom
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It's very hard to ween yourself off verdana

orchid cliff
woven elm
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should make ledger switch to comic sans as a punishment for not using a monospaced font

uneven tendon
elfin latch
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sanctum was a much more enjoyable hunt. ME isnt someplace i'd farm to silvers

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chance to catch a death are to high and that number tanks fast

vivid locust
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Not to mention actually hunting ME for an hour cant be done straight by more or less anyone without dread breaks

elfin latch
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most of my dump loot and sell and open box breaks covered enough time for that

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as I noted before my down time vs my other hunts was 7 extra minutes

vivid locust
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You opened during the hunt?

elfin latch
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All of those hunts I stop when I am full of loot

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drop boxes off at the pool

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open the boxes that are there

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sell everything

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go back out

vivid locust
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Ah. I let the boxes pile up

elfin latch
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Despite what dev has told you mana is a resource

junior pier
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I mean, not for Ptolemy

vivid locust
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So is stamina!

elfin latch
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^ GOS, yup.

vivid locust
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Heh

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I will say Me is the Only place that can challenge my stamina

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I do run out there

elfin latch
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I'm not really streamlining any of these hunts for min/max gains

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I was hoping to catch the organ not on CD

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but no dice

vivid locust
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Same. I wasnt trying to make myself a scenario i was unlikely to replicate

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I need to do a full hour in pit. Curious how much the ttk difference translates into earnings

elfin latch
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I'd suspect a good amount

vivid locust
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Me too

elfin latch
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loot hunting is about volume.

vivid locust
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Im thinking i get to about 600k max

elfin latch
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you maxed in trading and skinning stuff?

vivid locust
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No. No trade. 202 total skinning ranks

elfin latch
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so theres some money on the table too I'm getting that you're not

vivid locust
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I can skin it all. Quality is a crap shoot

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All that said. If you are a player who CAN dedicate one single hour a day to loot, you’ll be well ahead of the median

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Even 30 mins

elfin latch
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for sure

ocean fern
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I tried hunting yesterday and blew myself up trying to disarm a box so my stats are like -50k for an hour

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I am the casual

elfin latch
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I feel like a casual makes it in the store, you're like a window shopper. 😂

ocean fern
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it was really bad, because it should have been easy to disarm like I had a million times before, instead it nuked me lol

uneven tendon
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Well, guess the group thing was clearly affecting some serious player out there since it's the 26th and instead of the box pool being empty, I'm getting all the way to "You've done enough for a while. Why don't you rest for a bit?"

vivid locust
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Okay. Trying my new '30 mins a day' of straight silver hunting in HW Pit of the Dead. Goal here is to see what sort of weekly income this brings in for a relatively slow TTK warrior
Day 1 - 106077 from non-box loot (silver, gems, skins). 17 boxes (none open yet, will update)

elfin latch
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Nelemar SECOND floor still waiting on 10 boxes but 408,270 so far.

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also fun fact I almost died during this hour more times than I almost died anyplace else.

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I popped symbol of escape which I hadnt done in either of the other zones and had to beseech my armor 3 times two more times than other zones

sturdy terrace
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435 and 720 are very scary, I love how Nelemar 2 is still one of the toughest spots even after all this time.

elfin latch
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2 also takes 719 out of the equation for me, which is a pretty big deal

vivid locust
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Okay...30 mins of HW Pit, casual non-frantic pace, lost time sinks mostly in waiting for angargeists to come back from fades.

[bank: New balance for the day: 225822]

Extrapolated out for 1 hour, we've got about 500k for a full hour of hunting.
Over a 5 day week, (assuming a couple of days this isn't possible for lots of people), we have 2.5 million per week.
Obviously, way lower than Mels numbers. I'm betting that considering my warrior can engage and kill groups pretty cleanly, waiting for these sole critters to show up may be a bad loot strategy. I wouldn't be suprised if something like Fjal is an overall better silver spot for lower TTK folks who can't instantly take out disir or angargeists. I'll also bet anyone efficiently fighting the Pits moves on the moment an angargeists fades and comes back to it whenever.

So I guess my general take on all this stuff is that as a pretty slow HW hunter, if you can do 5 hours a month of dedicated loot hunting, you can make at or above the game's median. Anything beyond that is gravy.

vivid locust
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Okay. 30 mins in Fjal
[bank: New balance for the day: 155005] 6 boxes left to open.

atomic raven
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How the heck did Mel get 1.2mil per hour in the Pits, check that boy for steroids...

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I got 34 boxes in Fjalla in 45 minutes, does that mean average?

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Is 1 box a minute too many?

orchid cliff
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What he think is average power is like a rich person talking about the price of a banana maybe

atomic raven
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I can't wait for Feb 1, I will try 1 hour in Fajalla with major loot boost and fresh cap

orchid cliff
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Alot of the money on that side was skins for me

atomic raven
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I did get a good chunk in skins but I mangle them, I wonder the delta from perfect valv skins vs my boiled earth ones

orchid cliff
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I think it's a good bit different but not cripplingly so

uneven tendon
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I get ~2000-3500 from most valravn plumes. 30k to 31k from a full bundle of 10.

orchid cliff
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I don't even know what I get, but I'm just 1x/1x FA/survival

#

And I just make smash at thing

elfin latch
orchid cliff
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Yep. I don't think you were misrepresenting anything and you were pretty clear

elfin latch
plucky kite
#

Maybe I KS my monk and then have him group with Altheren and pump up pit spawns like crazy

orchid cliff
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Wouldn't a non-KS monk pump the spawns more

elfin latch
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we're not going to let something like not being able to learn provoke stop us.

plucky kite
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I don't know how to play monks. 😛

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I am a wizard Harry!

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make bolts go super huge boom boom

tardy crater
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adding my 1 hour run to the mix: ~600k in Fjallarhaart which includes about 10-15 minutes of just resting to get mana back

merry swan
graceful mason
#

I agree unless you bid on the big silver auctions silver is useless for pay events. Thank god for event boxes.

vivid locust
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I think Mel’s numbers are very useful for relative earnings. He equally can blast through all that content.

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I have easier/harder grounds in that mix that definitely effect how much silver i can pull in over a fixed time

timber nova
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I only really have +10 ascension in everything that would give me stamina regen like that though.

vivid locust
#

Monday Morning - 30 mins. Pit and Fjal (15/15 mins each)
[bank: New balance for the day: 263368]

#

Compared to previous 30m efforts in HW from last week
[bank: New balance for the day: 225822]
[bank: New balance for the day: 155005]
[bank: New balance for the day: 263368]

elfin latch
#

I'm waiting for a fresh month to cycle through the zones again. Just incase.

timber nova
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between ME and the Scatter this morning (since 6:30). I have about 54 boxes in the picking queue and earned about 823,595 silvers with boxes pending.

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majority of that being the scatter (had to burn my 9x brooch)

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probably only an hours worth of hunting total since I rested off the 1600+ mind clearing

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I'm definitely not timing anything perfectly like you guys though so rough estimates in time out there

vivid locust
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I can imagine scatter being pretty empty these days with ME and HW competing. I can see it being good loot as a result

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I have a weird circumstance. I can handle everything in the Pit, which is probably box by box a better loot source, but the swarmy nature of Fjal, combined with fairly regular valravn plumes means I get alot more kills in during the same time period. I found Fjal had less boxes per critter, but I was taking on rooms of 6-7 things at a time at points as opposed to the pit which is more like 2-3 max. Not to mention how angars and disir slow me down a lot

vivid locust
#

After 2x 10 min ME hunts
[bank: New balance for the day: 164923]

merry swan
#

pretty sure i've hit some kind of soft cap. Used a major loot boost in the pits at HW and i'm not getting lots of diamonds, i'm getting lots of jade

atomic raven
#

I found that the last day(s) of lootcap/month seem to be extra good which is weird but maybe I never hit soft cap

#

It would be funny if all your soft cap potential loot was crammed into the last hours of the month so as to properly hit budget

timber nova
#

yeah for me I know I haven't hit the soft cap yet. I didn't start playing again until like halfway through the month.

Fjal for me can either be great or really bad. All it takes is a Valravn to come in and wreck my day at times. They are highly alert and there manuever really sucks and hurts

#

but that's a great point that less people are loot hunting right now because of the end of the month so loot is probably better for people that haven't even hit the soft cap

vivid locust
#

especially with us playing these loot tests shenanigans

vivid locust
formal tulip
#

it's also possible that as you're posting these numbers, people see it and go hit those areas and push the pressure elsewhere. This morning at least scatter was crap loot-wise, but I doubt it's always the case

vivid locust
#

For sure. My HW adventures over the past two weeks have been pretty consistent

timber nova
timber nova
formal tulip
#

I got decent box qauntity, but the value in them was poop compared to my plane4 runs over the last few days

timber nova
#

Scatter and all the other planes are linked for loot pressure right?

formal tulip
#

they would be, but the enemies are different so the scatter unique enemies should be on their own pressure

#

if anhything that means plane 4 enemies hsould be poorer as they have two areas to be hunted within

timber nova
#

I feel like plane4 is harder in general than the Scatter. Well there is more risk there atleast

#

unless you are going into the south side of the scatter

formal tulip
#

I was in south side. north side has zero enemies, they all bunched up in the south

#

near as I can tell if nobody hunts south side, it just consumes all the spawn slots

timber nova
#

yeah... I always have to go to the south side and rebalance it

#

when it's bad though

#

I run in there and aoe down the swarms with volley, shield throw...etc...

#

then head back north

formal tulip
#

at any rate, it's possible that my kill speed is lower down there, but also the whole thing is just one data point etc. I could try hunting it for 8 hours or something and seeing

orchid cliff
#

I was only regular hunting though

timber nova
#

I was burning my brooch so just kept hunting until I got through it

#

maybe you guys are in soft cap?

orchid cliff
#

Makes sense. I dont brooch, they make me salty lol

#

I am def not

formal tulip
#

Eh, I'll write it down to chance. Maybe, it's hard to tell for me.

#

I'm an evil swarm hunter so it's all a bit fuzzy

timber nova
#

I'm probably at 14m for the month

formal tulip
#

Honestly hearing about people who were popping 10 million a day previously makes me exhausted even thinking of what that would take

orchid cliff
#

It's alot of prep and time

vivid locust
formal tulip
#

I think for me it's mostly the fact that there's an upcoming auction, so farming feels like a competition with others who are largely doing the same. Once that's gone and we're back to another 5 years to the next auction (whether that's really how long or not) the pressure will be a lot less

vivid locust
#

Ah, I don't have skin in that game. I'm just looking to get silver for event boxes

formal tulip
#

sadly, most of what I want at this stage doesn't come except through those mechanisms.

wise charm
#

Why is loot for characters on a monthly calendar, instead of weekly caps that coincide with lumnis?

formal tulip
#

The biggest element would be that loot is per account, not character. If it matched lumnis it would be per character. They'd have to go with a different week approach to keep it per account

wise charm
#

Interesting. I didn’t know that. Thanks.

uneven tendon
winged prairie
#

Is it known whether some areas have different baseline loot settings? i.e. I’ve seen a bunch of complaints about meager ME loot, but is that just because of loot pressure or is it actually set to have worse loot than HW?

formal tulip
#

ascension critters should have a loot boost, but I believe that's the only systemic setting, otherwise it's all based on the current quality after pressure effect. It frequently seems like part of the issue is that players don't know what baseline is/supposed to feel like, so they tend to feel that areas with positive pressure are "normal" and everything else is lower, hence the perception that pressure only makes loot worse

strange bloom
#

I assume it's more complex than that.

#

why you don't see diamonds from kobolds when you are level 1, etc

#

and if there's anything GS is good at, it's overly complex systems

winged prairie
#

Hmm, I’m not sure Rinualdo. I feel like I’ve definitely gotten diamonds and decent boxes from kobolds and the like. One thing I’m fairly confident about is that enhancives with high level use requirements only spawn from like level critters. But with respect to the baseline level of loot, it’s not clear if kobolds = gnomes, setting aside loot pressure, if you know what I mean

vital perch
#

Plane 5 at level 85 was about the same

#

But I'm hunting with 120lb in weight reduction and 500lb in capacity. Hunt to fill and TP out

#

uptime is about 75%

atomic raven
#

I need to try that out

#

Time for the infinite death's sting lvl 70 bots to take over

vital perch
#

well, you'll hit the loot cap really quick

woven elm
#

Time for loot’s sting

atomic raven
#

Hitting lootcap in day 1 lol

uneven tendon
#

253,911 from a major loot boost Pits hunt. 🎉

atomic raven
#

dang, you must be far into lootcap

vivid locust
uneven tendon
#

Yes.

#

Oh, I guess add another ~26000 for scarabs since I get my own boxes, heh.

latent night
#

I'm going to have to try my luck in the pits.

vital perch
#

I should do 1 hour of plane 5 later tonight. See how little I get

#

I'm down to a box every other hunt or so

latent night
#

You need sheer fear protection there right?

vital perch
#

plane 5? Yes

#

all of the rift, yes

formal tulip
#

It's fine if you're within 10 levels though

wise charm
elfin latch
vivid locust
#

Ill try leafis 15 min pit run on a major loot boost tomorrow to compare. I definitely am in the slower end of these powerhouses so id probably a more ‘likely’ metric for people giving the pits a go

#

Ill actually probably do a full fried hunt first to warm the place up. Spawns can be real dead at 7:00am

uneven tendon
vital perch
timber nova
#

15 minute hunt in ME with major loot boost (haven't used one of those in awhile), 186,456 coins and 11 boxes not opened yet

vivid locust
#

solid

#

I found myself really loosing AS hard at the 15 min mark

#

couldn't really continue on

timber nova
#

yeah the dread is a pain but some how managed. Need that organ up. heh

vivid locust
#

For fun comparisons....

#

100 boxes from Soul golems

#

[bank: New balance for the day: 782513]

timber nova
#

that's a lot of boxes

vivid locust
#

I got a guy in there on full asc for his level

wary hedge
timber nova
#

final tally with boxes opened now from 15 minutes hunt with major loot boost in ME: 294,957

#

I broke a veniom pick though... so should deduct that. heh

timber nova
#

from critter

orchid cliff
#

Inner or outer ME

timber nova
#

castle

orchid cliff
#

Outer ME is an honest pain in the arse

timber nova
#

I did kill a few out front on my way in

orchid cliff
#

I was checking it out earlier

#

Just took me too long to drop those illoke clones

#

Castle was really good

timber nova
#

the groutesque?

orchid cliff
#

I think that's the one

timber nova
#

lots of hps

#

I subdue them, mug, weapon fury, pull out the dual hand crossbows and barrage. repeat until dead

orchid cliff
#

Heh

#

I've only got the one weapon style

#

Paladin curse

timber nova
#

the two weapon styles is the key for me

orchid cliff
#

Katars are the only cure

timber nova
#

if I run low on stamina, I pull out my dual axes and waylay

orchid cliff
#

That would be clutch

#

Maybe I need to save my infuses to burn them

timber nova
#

I should go back to normal xp to learn blunt weapons. heh...

#

or a two hander...

orchid cliff
#

I should just hunt regularly and finish my regular XP stuff lmao

timber nova
#

scatter hunt with major loot boost for 15 minutes (this include a run back to unload once and returned for the remaining 5 minutes on the loot boost): 258,017

vital perch
#

this time of month is really bad to judge how much you get

sweet vapor
#

unless you're not loot capped - then it's a great time- but all this data has so many unknown variables regardless

timber nova
#

definitely a lot of variables at play. But the big story here is that it isn't hard to surpass the average player's 2m a month with a tiny bit of effort.

#

I probably just hit the soft cap every month. I can't imagine what players are doing to hit the hard cap as quickly as they do

#

did a 45 minute hunt in the scatter with a major loot boost for the 45 minutes. So far the total is: 367,913 with 32 boxes sitting in the queue to tally up still. This might not be a good run.

#

the first 15 minutes it rained boxes and died out after that

vivid locust
#

15 min Major Loot boost pit run was something of a disaster. Not sure why

#

[bank: New balance for the day: 37269]

#

Thats the non box loot

#

and only 7 boxes

timber nova
#

before I even got to start my boost and hunt. I got a rank 2 injury on my hands on the fissure, healed up. got hit with a 5 round stun from a void. took a little bit for me to even get started. 🤣

Sounds like bad luck is going around

#

2 return back to the sands in order to eat herbs

elfin latch
#

its not hard to take a group out and never have to go in and just pump out TTK and murder hobo your way to loot cap, its just a do you want to.

#

you increase your killing power and spawn rates and carrying limits, we're just solo rolling over here

timber nova
#

I've tried to MA in the past but have never been able to really pull it off. Granted I'm manual when I do that which is probably the problem. I use to alt tab between 3 characters at once which is actually pretty fun but it can easily get overwhelming

elfin latch
#

yea thats gonna slow you down for sure

vivid locust
#

Okay...took another 15 min major boost to Fjal. Same boxes (8 this time) but much much more spawns so way more gems/tusks/etc.

#

[bank: New balance for the day: 77830] + 8 unopened boxes

orchid cliff
#

If you are manual, doing 3 would be a chore

#

Going 3+ automated is a chore

wary hedge
strange bloom
#

don't run ledger on Feb 1 until you empty out the pool

timber nova
strange bloom
#

you would also need to install the gem

timber nova
#

I'll take a look at it this afternoon. thanks for the info

timber nova
vivid locust
#

Okay. Final post from me on the loot stuff.
This morning, 2/1
1 x 15 min hunt in Pit
2 x 15 Major Loot Boots in Fjal
[bank: New balance for the day: 489471] + 13 more boxes to be opened (I had probably like 25 boxes today so far in total)
This is solo, on my 15m xp KS warrior who is decked out to kill undead. Fjal was way more profitable for me because of the speed of kills compared to the Pit with disir tankiness and angar fades.

#

I MIGHT repeat the same hunts tomorrow with no loot boosts to see if there is a difference that is noticeable

elfin latch
#

hour in flalalaljajajr: no boosts 1,235,456. Still waiting on 17 boxes from the pool

atomic raven
#

30 minutes of straight major loot boost in fajalla:
Total: 720K

Direct silvers: 34K
Pawnshop junk: 20K
Skins: 113K (47 skins/ 2.4k per)
Gems/jewelry:228k
Boxes (all loot inside): 326k (39 boxes/8.7K per)

#

The only thing that slowed me down was eloot couldn't keep up with how much loot was dropping, haha....

vivid locust
#

yeah, ttk showing through here. Fjal is my fastest kills in HW and I was in at around 600k for my 2/1 hunt posted above.

#

I did find a +5 Aura base earring though in a box. So that's worth a few mil

atomic raven
#

too bad there is a lootcap, knowing these numbers.... I could be bigshotting my way to financial freedom every month.... conservative 750k per hour X 20 hours X 30 days = 450M per month, 🫰 🤑 💰

timber nova
#

it's not very difficult to hit these caps when you actually play the game though. I guess based off the reports. The majority of the players don't really actually play the game.

#

makes me wonder how the majority of players afford player services and stuff

orchid cliff
#

By purchasing silvers, most likely. It's been a ripe market since the mid 90s lol

timber nova
#

cleric services are rough though

#

player market really doesn't line up with that average of 2m per month income average. I wonder how much BS is generated from those same players at DR.

woven elm
timber nova
#

maybe Naijin will come back and make rogues great again with their awesome service he came up with!

formal tulip
#

Most people just get by without services as they're not playing bleeding edge content to need it

atomic raven
ocean fern
#

i generate a ton more BS than silvers. A majority of my silvers come from selling old EG items and stuff that fill numerous lockers

#

I think the best I did last night was around 100k in about a half hour/hour in the sanctum because I found three items that sold for like 20k each. Lost time dealing with snakes and wounds and racked up 400 poison damage that needed to be flushed out so that was a trip back

orchid cliff
#

I have to wonder if poison resist actually does anything

ocean fern
#

didn't seem to when getting bitten by the snakes

wise charm
#

Or 640…

orchid cliff
#

Or 640 poison from Atoll, or in the Black Forest

#

I think it's a McGuffin spell

woven elm
#

Theoretically poison resistance gives you a second ward chance, but if you are bad at warding the poison you will probably just fail again

orchid cliff
#

As a 2x PF Giantman Paladin, you would think I would ward it once in a while

wise charm
#

How a ranger, familiar with wall of thorns, shoots an arrow at a Triton Warden, while having poison resist, 602, and 620 (nature) up and still gets poisoned -- well, it is beyond me.

karmic musk
# timber nova it's not very difficult to hit these caps when you actually play the game though...

I'm in the game a good 16-30 hours per week, possibly more and have never once hit loot cap Neovik. I consider that a fairly decent amount of time to invest in any hobby that isn't actually a full time job. I think there is a distinct difference between playing the game and how you are defining 'playing' the game.

makes me wonder how the majority of players afford player services and stuff

For my part, I mostly work on my own stuff (I don't sell services very often and I buy them from other players infrequently).

For the really high end stuff I find that I don't generally value them enough to be worth what the grind would take to acquire them. I'd rather spend my time enjoying playing the game vs. grinding for those things.

timber nova
karmic musk
#

The time I spend on Faulkil hunting is primarily in Sanctum, Confluence, and Bandits. My perception of what I pull in hunting would be seriously skewed as I bring in more silver merchanting than I do hunting on any given month (and I save a lot of gems vs. selling them right away). As a rough guess, I bring in maybe 1-2 million silver in any given week from Faulkil's hunting activities.

I have a couple of characters that primarily do OSA with my wife when she is available and yes, the loot is really bad vs. pretty much any other hunting activity in the game from my experience. That said - we both enjoy OSA so we still will spend a good part of a day just sailing around killing pirates at times.

The rest of my time is spread amongst a variety of characters.

  • My capped paladin primarily hunts bandits these days (doesn't pay all that well vs. most other hunting activities from my experience). I'm tempted to have him start hunting either REIM, Sanctum, or Teras in the not too distant future.
  • Otherwise I have characters I hunt with my wife - 88 Rogue, 69 Warrior, 7 Warrior and others. Sometimes these characters bring in significantly more silver than Faulkil can for the same time / effort depending on how the treasure system is tilted that week.
  • And then I have a 53 warmage that I've been spending extra time on recently - partially because it's been a lot of fun and partially because he's able to help take on some of my enchanting project list which has about 5 years of backlog. :p

I'll try taking a snapshot in the near future and then another snapshot a month later and see where it all breaks out (and will separate out the merchanting portion). I'll wait until after DR to do this though.

vivid locust
#

I mean you hit median in a week

#

Thats not shabby

elfin latch
#

I don't think anyones point here is to be like the loot cap numbers are to high at least i'm not, if your intention to hit it, its no an overly hard thing to do given you spend some time 16-30 hours a month if your enjoyment of the game is loot hunting is enough time to do that. if you want to is an other story

buoyant sparrow
#

Does loot pressure reset monthly as well?

orchid cliff
#

Good question. I don't believe it does though. Nelemar is consistently bad, for example

buoyant sparrow
#

That may be due to it never having a recovery period? Was just wondering: my 1hr test run at the end of the month for how much loot I could gen was almost half what I made in the same area at the beginning of the month for half the time

dark sable
frank quiver
#

Speaking of loot pressure, why is loot pressure even needed anymore now that we have loot caps?

orchid cliff
#

As much as I hate to say it, I agree with Dreaven on that one.

strange bloom
#

been asked several times in this thread and since the loot cap introduction with crickets as a response

sweet vapor
#

The idea of encouraging people to spread out and hunt different places is still a valid and good one. Also, just because there's a cap, doesn't mean they want everyone to hit it...the reality of getting rid of loot pressure would probably just be a net increase in silvers generated, which is directly at odds with the loot cap's goal of reducing silvers generation.

timber nova
#

isn't the goal to level the playing field for everyone so they can all afford everything? If only the loot hunters know the ins and outs of loot pressure then the guy that the loot cap is suppose to benefit because they are the average player will just net more silvers keeping up some what with the loot hunters

frank quiver
#

Seems like the idea of encouraging people to spread out and hunt different places is exactly the wrong strategy the game needs at the moment. Maybe that made sense back in the days of 2000 people logged in at once, but the game world is what, 5-6 times the size it was back then with a 1/4th of the population? Maybe it's time to encourage people to congregate more. Also I don't think the GMs are worried that someone who is currently making 5 million silvers a month hunting their favorite spot will make 8 million silvers a month, they are worried about the people who were making 100+ million silvers a month, and the loot cap already accomplishes that goal.

grim plume
elfin latch
#

I went through all 5 of these links: I can save everyone the trouble here is the answer to why we have loot pressure Pressure is to promote trying and moving to different hunting grounds and to also avoid just hunting the easiest creatures for the best treasure.

strange bloom
#

Most of those are just ways of saying They're different. But thank you for this one, I had missed it
Pressure is to promote trying and moving to different hunting grounds and to also avoid just hunting the easiest creatures for the best treasure.
Which I find illogical since by all appearances you can control loot on a per creature/area basis

frank quiver
#

But why do we need to try different hunting areas?

granite hamlet
#

I really liked that suggestion someone floated awhile back about adjusting loot pressure in OSA to differentiate between the various ocean subgroups

strange bloom
#

with citizenship, shops, rp events, CHE/MHO, etc etc etc I don't understand why moving people around should be a goal, particularly when you sell items that tie people to specific hunting areas or some areas require much more gear choices/investments, often competing

frank quiver
#

Also wouldn't carrots be better than sticks in this scenario? Rather than punishing people with less loot, why not reward people with better loot for moving to a different area? I realize the end is still the same (less loot by staying put), but at least you're not gaining progressively less and less loot by staying put, rather you would just be more rewarded by moving to a new area.

cerulean bear
#

not sure why the big pressure to move either. some people just like hanging out in one place, whether for RP reasons, mechanics consideration, or simply because it's annoying and a hassle to redo your bigshot profiles. why force us to move? :p

strange bloom
#

I dislike the notion that someone spends cash to get ithzir bane or uses premium points for an enhancive to get their mental TD up to hunt in Atoll, or swaps their entire build around (lol wizards) to hunt in HW, and then a bunch more people come to that same area and tank their loot. Then telling people if they want the same loot, disregard what you just spent and go find some other area

sweet vapor
#

it's more like a nudge than a kick in the butt imo - it encourages you to seek other places if yours is too crowded - but you can just stay there if you like and earn less loot...meanwhile other people may leave because of the loot and it will go back up again.

We can discuss the pros and cons of the loot cap, and whether it is really necessary in lower level hunting areas where there aren't many people, but let's not continue with the fallacy of "we don't need loot pressure if we have a loot cap".

Removing loot pressure means EVERYONE makes more silvers - so taking an example of one person making a few mill more but still being more is ignoring the forest for the trees. If EVERYONE made a few mill more every month we'd be going directly against the plan of reducing silvers generation...maybe that's something that can be discussed after "the plan" is mature.

strange bloom
#

so one quote, in 2021 prior to this thread you laid out a reason for the loot pressure system. I hope it can re revisited

elfin latch
#

loot pressure has never personally incentivized my behavior to hunt anyplace or not

cerulean bear
#

it still doesn't really answer the question if you're just going to hit the cap anyway regardless of where you go, how is pressure incentivizing you to move in the first place?

frank quiver
#

Maybe even reward people for moving to less populated hunting area with login boosts or something, and have a command in game where you can see if your current hunting area is rewarding boosts. That might actually encourage people to move to newer areas. Or reward like 1% ascension experience or something.

elfin latch
#

bad mechanics have incentivized me to move hunting ground for sure though.

formal tulip
#

I think people aren't realizing that some people are getting more loot because of pressure. The areas people think of as good aren't dropping baseline loot, they're dropping pressure boosted loot. There's just a lost of confusion/disagreement on where the baseline is

sweet vapor
cerulean bear
#

are people not playing or something? how do you not hit the loot cap...

frank quiver
#

Seems like loot pressure made sense at the time it was implemented, if I recall large groups of people were all hunting the same area(s) because the loot was really good, but that was like 20+ years ago wasn't it? Surely things have changed over the years to at least warrant a look at changing loot pressure.

elfin latch
sweet vapor
cerulean bear
#

hard cap is another story yea. but the soft cap is easy to hit in a month even with light-moderate playing in the poorest zone in the game

frank quiver
#

I barely wake up in the morning on the 1st and I've already hit the soft cap. I may or may not be exaggerating.

sweet vapor
#

whether it's "easy" or not does not change the fact that most people do not hit it, including myself

elfin latch
#

I posted a number of my wizard doing casual hunts in nelemar 3rd floor only taking in like 82k an hour

#

thats 7 hours a day for a month to hit soft cap

cerulean bear
#

that sounds about right. so it's hard for even nelemar alts to not hit cap

sweet vapor
#

you're looking at a very small player base who hunts 7 hours a day every day of the month

strange bloom
#

I think one of the things that some of the anecdotal data has shown is that is that casual hunts as Melivn mentioned and hunting for silver yields dramatically different results, even in places like Nelemar

sweet vapor
#

and even then - hitting the soft cap is not really that relevant immediately - sure it's less loot but we're not here arguing about making 19m a month instead of 20m

strange bloom
#

If you are still around Estild, could you tell us if the trading skill has an impact on the loot cap or point me to where this may have been addressed already?

uneven tendon
#

I forget if I've suggested this before, but maybe loot pressure would accomplish its goals more effectively if were based on metrics like average kill time and frequency of death in the area instead of sheer number of creatures looted. Right now, even some pretty darn hard areas have terrible loot at times because they happen to be in the west or there are a lack of alternatives within a level range.

I don't necessarily feel strongly enough about it to argue it should be any kind of priority, though, since it does sounds like a complex thing to dig into the numbers of and get right.

vivid locust
#

I have to say. My perspective on loot has really changed since our tracking experiment

elfin latch
#

My job here is done then.

orchid cliff
#

Melivn flys away on a golden tiny broom

elfin latch
#

I assume its changed in the manner that its not some impossible feat to hit soft cap if you wanted to.

vivid locust
#

I can and do now commit about 30 mins a day to nothing but silver acquisition. I make about 1.2m every 2 days since then.

#

I also found an enhancive i sold for 5 mil

#

Its not really about ‘hitting the cap’, its having a clear understanding that X thing for Y silver costs me Z game time

#

And thats a super valuable number to know. My econ brain is happy

uneven tendon
#

I've definitely upped my loot hunting since all of this started.

woven elm
#

I now see like a half dozen more people in the vineyard every day and regret my participation in this thread

elfin latch
#

I started using ledger we'll see where i am at the end of the month

#

Its going to count all my reim silvers too because im to lazy to kill it before that

#

But whatever

vivid locust
#

I want to try ledger. Needs other files?

orchid cliff
#

I never had anything tracking silvers, I threw on Ledger the other day.

formal tulip
#

I imagine the group change has also modified people's patterns knowing they're not hosing others by looting

woven elm
#

yes you need to install a couple of additional gems to use ledger

elfin latch
# 
C:/Ruby4Lich5/bin/gem install ascii_charts
#

Just run that at your comand prompt

vivid locust
#

Any help?

# 
Parsing documentation for ascii_charts-0.9.1
Done installing documentation for ascii_charts after 0 seconds
1 gem installed```
# 
[ledger: Requires Ruby gems: ascii_charts]
[ledger: Please install the above gem(s) to run ;ledger]
--- Lich: ledger has exited.```
elfin latch
#

restart wyrath

vivid locust
elfin latch
#

theres a way to force it but I forget off hand

#

lich needs to refresh

vivid locust
#

sweet. we are in business. danka

#

lets get that cheddar

elfin latch
#

add it to your start up if you want it to track stuff always

wary hedge
#

Also don't forget to kill it when you don't want it to record a deposit or withdrawl.

vivid locust
#

Where does it leave the report? Lich script folder?

buoyant sparrow
#

Db file in your data folder

dense ferry
#

The report is when you do BANK ACCOUNT. The data is stored in your data folder though.

wary hedge
#

If you are familiar with db files you could go in and fix any of your errant records as well.

orchid cliff
#

1 week normal hunting and bounties. No trading. Zero effort put into making extra or maximizing profits. (ignore hourly, it fluctuates wildly on if I was resting/sitting idle//etc etc)

+----------+----------+---------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
| _        | resource | hourly  | daily     | monthly   | yearly    |
+----------+----------+---------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
| Char1    | silver   | 112,031 |   935,857 | 5,916,058 | 5,916,058 |
| Char1    | bounty   |   1,355 |    15,813 |    96,332 |    96,332 |
| Char2    | silver   |  21,550 |   584,438 | 2,697,130 | 2,697,130 |
| Char2    | bounty   |     273 |     7,814 |    35,598 |    35,598 |
| Total    | silver   | 133,581 | 1,520,295 | 8,613,188 | 8,613,188 |
| Total    | bounty   |   1,628 |    23,627 |   131,930 |   131,930 |
+----------+----------+---------+-----------+-----------+-----------+
cerulean bear
#

why is char2 so much worse than char1?

dense ferry
#

Could be where they hunt, maybe they're a halfling and can't carry, maybe they're not the looter of a group!

orchid cliff
#

Location and class does matter I guess. Nelemar vs Atoll

dense ferry
#

Does one skin?

orchid cliff
#

Bounty rewards are a non-insubstantial source of income

#

Both skin

dense ferry
#

Never hunted Nelemar, Does one area have more down time maybe in travel or spawns

#

I know Atoll usually has a couple folks, so spawns are pretty decent

orchid cliff
#

Nelemar is probably the worst place for loot in the game heh