#Loot cap is awesome!

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formal tulip
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I assume most people tend to buy their coins on one account

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I know I do

stuck sun
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I don't include accounts that don't buy in, so for a pay event like EG, we have about 50% of the accounts participate that we have. It's one of our best "participated" events due to the passes, but the revenue charts won't include a lot of passes. Every business meeting about this takes a lot of explaining of the secondary market.

strange bloom
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understood- thank you

stuck sun
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They would like it if the passes weren't something you could hand off, but I know that would be very bad.

clever lava
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Lol

strange bloom
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and 50% seems very, very good

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even including secondary

clever lava
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Do it once just to show them the difference

cerulean bear
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just take over the secondary market directly and tax transactions :p

stuck sun
strange bloom
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apologies, I didn't mean to derail the loot cap discussion

woven elm
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I am amused that you have to remind them every time that money can be exchanged for goods and services

strange bloom
cerulean bear
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i mean, a sizable number of people playing this game are over 65 :p

uneven tendon
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The only way I could see account-locked EG entries even remotely working involves equalizing the Simucoin cost for premium and normal, which would probably hurt more than it would help.

And even then, that only salvages multi-accounting where not all are premium, never mind the rest of the playerbase.

stuck sun
# woven elm I am amused that you have to remind them every time that money can be exchanged ...

Yeah, so they look at the participation chart, and just to explain what that is, it's basically the people who buy into the event. So they will see someone buy 18 passes and are like, "Why is this?" Or for something like Duskruin they might see 200 unique purchases, but our in-game data might show 10x that, so they don't understand how that is. Most game companies don't let you do things like this, unless you're paying for the ticketed event.

formal tulip
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yeah.. if you account locked passes, I'd have to buy a LOT fewer of them

clever lava
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Everyone would get less

woven elm
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ah, and you are like "that person is going to resell them, which will create benefit for them in X way" and they are like "well you should get that benefit, we want it" and you're like "okay listen"

stuck sun
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I don't have to spend 2 hours twice a week doing this anymore, but I still have to explain it.

iron rune
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speaking of buying things on the simustore. Store Cart in 2023?

clever lava
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Our market might be weird but it works

formal tulip
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even not just resell, some of us jut hand them off because we buy on one account

strange bloom
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I'm not saying not to address silvers incoming, but I really feel in my heart the solution is way more effort on players spending silvers in game. There's hundreds of ideas out there and I would happily volunteer to do whatever work was necessary on them.
The only thing I really hope you and the team consider on the inflow of money is the idea of moving the cap to weekly to match lumnis, resource, etc.

formal tulip
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like... I'm buying dozens of enhancive pauses on one account to hand off because I'm not buying coins on every account

stuck sun
iron rune
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happy and sad emoji at same time

uneven tendon
clever lava
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I want to see xp passes like the guild passes. Someone can boost xp by 2x for 6 hours.

cerulean bear
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turn on the covid exp boost thing again

uneven tendon
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I mean, at this point Rumor Woods already sells 2x orbs, so sure, why not?

woven elm
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I do like the idea of people being able to pay for worldwide benefits

uneven tendon
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Ohhhhh, talking global. Better yet, though I bet that would be expensive. šŸ˜„

woven elm
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Somebody just did a PSA guild night and I was interested at this expansion of the money making strategy

clever lava
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It was always fun to have a happy hour of boosted gains

uneven tendon
strange bloom
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you give me a full time dev and I could generate so much revenue for GS. Soooo many things players would pay for

iron rune
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so divergence removal this week or next? šŸ‘€

atomic raven
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Can I sell the rights to my unused monthly lootcap space to the whales every month? That way everyone wins and the poor have a built in value chip to play! Think of it like collecting economic rents on a scarce resource, lootcap socialism!

ocean fern
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probably cheaper to just sell those rights to yourself with another account

stuck sun
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The people farming silvers aren't necessarily the wealthy people.

stuck sun
iron rune
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sweet

iron rune
atomic raven
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Those dang super farmers are private property poor.... living life lootcap to lootcap. You hate to see it šŸ’”

cerulean bear
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what if you have two accounts, and on the 15th of each month you transfer from one lootcapped account to the other account that hasn't hit cap...

formal tulip
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to what purpose? you can just burn both caps on both accounts and using 2 characters you also get service money for the characters

buoyant sparrow
cerulean bear
uneven tendon
formal tulip
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I feel like you've found a really expensive way to accomplish something, but a character transfer is more expensive per month than a basic account

cerulean bear
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eh you can just make that back by selling the extra silvers you make and then some

formal tulip
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I just really don't see how it would be better to move a character like that around versus just running two characters on the accounts. safety in numbers etc.

cerulean bear
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it depends. maybe you want that one character to get all the exp

atomic raven
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Wait, is lumnis per character, it would be hilarious if you could juggle a character over multiple accounts to reset it every couple days

iron rune
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Now this is the kinda insanely poorly thought out attempt and efficiency I appreciate

ocean fern
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now do the math of the cost of that verses a maxed out brooch, and then combine them together over a course of 5 years

atomic raven
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I want to know who the most transferred character is in GS history, the PC legend so to speak.

vivid locust
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Seems like the bottom line is that there is a massive gap that isn't gonna get solved any time soon. Im not sure how you solve the people at the top with the megabucks. Its not like you can just offer them carte blanche in-game things in trade for their silver. That kind of silver has large scale cash value, with is no secret. Is someone going to surrender it for in game items and upgrades?

woven elm
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people spend the actual cash for in game items and upgrades!

vivid locust
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Sure, I'm not just sure how you get all that loot drained from a small group of people and then shut the door after them

clever lava
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Steps:
Step 1a: Turn off the faucet. (Cut values by 90%, Diamonds go from 10k to 1k)
Step 1b: Fix the loot tables by allowing no more than 10 silvers * level loot generation. (This also applies to skin values.)
Step 2: Lower the monthly cap to 15m.
Step 3: Offer expensive upgrades for silvers to drain the bucket on a permanent basis.

  • Private "apartments" with upgrades. (Pre-designed add-a-room properties with monthly rent.) (Think shop/ship system, but housing.)
  • Permanent WPS wagons.
latent night
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Offer all player services for silver in a manor similar to the wps wagons.
Make silver for advguild enhancive recharging a permanent alternative to using BP's

clever lava
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Big drains would have to come from big gains.

  • Make a SK - 5 billion.
  • Make a SM - 2.5 billion.
  • Make a MK - 1 billion.
  • String a weapon - 1 billion.
vivid locust
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But if you cut generation, you regressively tax a huge chunk of the player base.

sturdy terrace
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Yeah. Cutting gem value 90% is pulling up the ladder after youā€™re already comfortable.

clever lava
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You're never going to loot your way to "comfort" if that's what you're trying to accomplish. You compress the wealth and prices/values adjust.

vivid locust
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Cutting the value of all loot would have an awful impact on the morale of average players. Most of them dont participate in these discussions. Imagine waking up and finding out ā€˜for the good of the gameā€™ bottom % earner just got their diamond values reduced by 90%

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It would be nice if every decent player crafting idea wasnt swallowed up by mania.

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Just in the last year alone ā€¦we have hess/mania services to convert normal boots and shoes to UAC and turn normal weapons into perfect forged. Make these expensive silver options that can be done by cobblers and blacksmiths

clever lava
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There are too many silvers generated as a whole, it's not sustainable.

vivid locust
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I dont disagree, and Wyrom seems to indicate that, but you arent going to convince people with minimal earnings that you are helping them by cutting their earnings

clever lava
clever lava
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You have to fill the bucket slower as well as lower the cap.

vivid locust
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Sure. I get that. I teach Econ.

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But its one thing to say it and another to do it

clever lava
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So "feelings" should stop the actual way to fix the issue?

vivid locust
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It does in every other walk of life with stakes far more important than a MUD

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One piece of data I'd like to see, if we haven't. Where is the bulk of silver generated. I realize some '10 accounts' push the loot cap. But what % of overall monthly silver generation do they represent

iron rune
sturdy terrace
granite hamlet
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Feelings are the only reason people play this game

clever lava
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I see it as something equal to the fame compression. You drop a 0, and move on.

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Silvers aren't really the main currency for anything anymore anyway.

iron rune
clever lava
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Want upgrades? Buy bloodscrip.

strange bloom
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silvers are absolutely the main currency for player services and what could be referred to as low end purchases

clever lava
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And the cost of player services would adapt to the new silver generation.

strange bloom
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not when there is so much existing wealth. All that suggestion would do is compress the wealth into fewer hands.

clever lava
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The existing wealth is already in a few hands.

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You can search for comments by Wyrom that 95% of the game is poor

strange bloom
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I said "fewer".
I'm reasonably sure if you compressed incoming silvers by 90% you would see a tremendous drop off in accounts.

clever lava
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What is your solution for the silver generation issue

strange bloom
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I don't think silver generation is the primary issue. I think expenditure is.

clever lava
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It's not an issue if a majority of the players make 2m a month and a small percentage makes 16-35m?

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Isn't that compressing the wealth into a few hands?

strange bloom
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I said "primary" issue.
If you give players of all income levels a vastly increased array of options to spend their silvers, then the market will stabilize.

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Especially if some of those silver expenditures are tied to play time or income generation

granite hamlet
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I like the 15m hard cap + conversion to weekly (~3.5m)

clever lava
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I can't think of what options for silvers would be available 24/7 that would maintain the economy.

strange bloom
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I don't think any single thing would, but dozens of ideas have been posted in this forum that collectively is almost certain to have an impact. Some small, some larger

clever lava
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I think it's incredibly difficult to price things when the generation rate varies from 2m to 35m

atomic raven
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I like various people's ideas of a super high end silver menu for whales but I think it should be coupled with a "forced" currency reset where you use it or lose it.... silver to new gold standard etc...

strange bloom
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That would be very easy to manipulate

clever lava
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Currency reset means people who have put in the work to accumulate wealth get hosed, and for what reason

atomic raven
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Depends, they buy the valuable menu items as a store of value or sell for $$$ to someone who does

clever lava
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What about all the people in the middle who can't afford one of these items from the high end silver menu.

atomic raven
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They would need something for them like medium menu or "can convert up to 100m to event currency of choice"

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Although that last option could be gamed

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Or heck just let silver convert to gold at 1:1 up to 50m

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Whales get advantage but not by billions

clever lava
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I don't think any of that is a good idea

strange bloom
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you could put the invoker in every city and have her charge 50k and people would pay
permanent enhancive silvers
wps wagon
df increase for weapons and decrease for armor for 1-4hrs
advguild exclusions by number or days, stackable... there's hundreds and hundreds of ideas out there

atomic raven
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Maybe we can go full Zimbabwe, remove lootcap and make all loot 1,000x its current sell value

sturdy terrace
clever lava
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Yes, I think people who have put in the effort to accumulate wealth should benefit from that effort.

Reducing income generation affects everyone equally. Everyone generates less.

sturdy terrace
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Luckily since Wyrom actually needs players to keep subscribing he wonā€™t do what youā€™re suggesting!

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Lower the cap make it weekly based on Lumnis and implement ongoing large and attractive silver sinks

formal tulip
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reducing generation by 90% but only halving the cap increases the effective range of loot generation from the currently problematic spread by 40x. To the goal of evening people out, you only need the halfing of the cap

granite hamlet
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Is it worth considering a boost for prem? It seems like spending the same $ on a small team of basic subs gives you the most benefit in terms of silver/spins/loot/raffles/services, etc

formal tulip
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I'm personally of the opinion that the best solution would be to drop the loot cap while increasing the non-fungible value of expending playtime hunting.

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it does, but ~~the ~~primary a value from premium is the GM services that you can draw on, it would increase the cost of the game to support more premiums, which would affect the staff in other ways

sturdy terrace
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Wyrom has said value of premium accounts will be a focus of his for this year

formal tulip
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yeah, that too, I don't think they need a loot carrot

strange bloom
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not directly. More hunting areas will do that indirectly though

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which I am for

clever lava
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Dragonrealms has a lot of premium-only hunting areas mixed around basic hunting areas. I think that would be interesting.

vivid locust
# strange bloom you could put the invoker in every city and have her charge 50k and people would...

I like these ideas in general terms....IF they are put in the hands of players as profession or Artisan services. Make the silver sink portion of it some very expensive component that has to be bought.

For example - the DF increase could easily be a form of temporary Perfect forging that wears down over time, but you have to pay X amount of silver (a large sum) to buy the whetstone needed. Then the artisan player can benefit by moving silver out of the hands of players WITH excess silver. So silver is both redistributed AND removed.

vivid locust
clever lava
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People buy premium to get special access to hunting areas.

vivid locust
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Sure, but why hunt there?

clever lava
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Better loot, less pressure, less competition

vivid locust
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No chance we are gonna have better loot be an outcome of trying to reduce loot, are we?

formal tulip
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yeah. Effectively that's no different than having them up on mist isle, just organization

vivid locust
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Q said a near cap hunting ground is coming?

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I think he said near cap

formal tulip
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yeah

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to 95

vivid locust
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Anyway, I see two problems. 1 - redistribution. Player services does help with this. 2. Drain.

If we combined Drains via expensive reagents/ingredients/etc and then let players use those things to offer valuable upgrades to players that are temporary but desirable, then the players can redistribute loot more effectively and the game drains silver more regularly

strange bloom
# vivid locust I like these ideas in general terms....IF they are put in the hands of players a...

I would disagree with this.
GS has a track record of overcomplicating systems but ultimately those complex systems create barriers to entry. If the primary goal of a system here is to create a silver sink, the last thing we would want is layers on reasons people would not buy in.
I certainly think there is room to improve some of those other systems, but for the silver sink aspect, give <npc> <silveramount>, NPC casts buff on your right hand slot, buff shows up in spell active with 4hr timer.

vivid locust
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That doesn't help redistribution

strange bloom
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I'm not trying to solve redistribution.

vivid locust
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Then you aren't solving the other half of the problem.

strange bloom
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I don't agree redistribution is a problem

vivid locust
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If I make 1 mil a month and someone else makes 30 mil a month, you can't price anything for people in between

strange bloom
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of course you can

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take the example above

formal tulip
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meanwhile, I think it is a problem, but not actually THAT big a one as to need anything drastic

strange bloom
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the person making 1m a month hunting isn't doing it for 14 hours a day

vivid locust
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Of course they aren't.

strange bloom
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so they would only say buy 0-2 of that idea

clever lava
formal tulip
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currently, 2m versus 30m is a 15x swing. It's ok to have a swing, just determine what it is

strange bloom
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the person making 30 is hunting 8-12 hours a day, so they buy more

clever lava
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The basic account who can play all day gets X amount, the premium account in the premium only area gets that amount in less hours.

vivid locust
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Or they don't buy more. Because your new drain isn't desireable, necessary, permanent, whatever

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Or they would rather sell their excess for cash

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instead of having .10 more DF

strange bloom
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right. Which is why I said I don't think any one thing is the answer, but several small things that appeal to a wide range is

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sure- now add in something that affects bounties and therefor exp generation

vivid locust
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I'm willing to bet a huge chunk of the lower end player's income comes from the services they can sell.

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Especially if they don't play alot

strange bloom
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I think you're talking about a different thing here.
I'm talking about money that comes into the game and money that leaves the game

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moving existing money around is an entirely separate topic

vivid locust
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So am I. But I'm looking at the goal of doing that in the first place. Even if you get creation and drains in balance....now what? What does this do to the game itself that improving 'the game'.

formal tulip
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also, wyrom's 2 million number would be generation, not agnostic "acquisition"

vivid locust
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Right

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Someone who generates 10 could give me 5 for my grit, for example

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I never generate 5 myself

timber nova
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The same issues exist for people with tons of experience. Ascension seems more catered to the top end experience earners vs 95 percent of the rest of the pop. 50k per ascension point doesnā€™t seem very realistic for the majority of the population.

strange bloom
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because an economic system that has the potential to drain more than it produces is the foundation for a sustainable economic system.

timber nova
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Especially if they are barely earning 2m a month

formal tulip
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so I anticipate that the services "problem" is deeper than just an amount of playtime. The lower intensity players aren't necessarily all capped, so their service has a hard time competing against capped people, even for the same playtime

vivid locust
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Sure...but for what? What are the things you are now going to offer players for silver that can be bought by all players at some varying levels according to their actual wealth?

strange bloom
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all the things that they would purchase with silvers

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EN players getting an invoker, efficiency players getting bounty exclusions, etc

vivid locust
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like what? i don't think most people purchase anything beyond player services in serious numbers with silver

formal tulip
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also, do the hard-core farmers consume services, or just do it themselves?

strange bloom
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the systems themselves are the reward

vivid locust
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That's a long ask. Build systems we hope people will pay for on an ongoing basis that maybe they won't actually.

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I wouldn't ever pay for the invoker, personally. There is no content hard enough to warrant it

strange bloom
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You wouldn't. People would.

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guarantee, if priced right.

formal tulip
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wouldn't spell sever render the invoker pointless though?

strange bloom
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people would pay to exclude skinning bounties.

vivid locust
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I'd assume if you are paying, it would ignore those restrictions

strange bloom
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not everyone is capped

timber nova
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Add npc crews for your ship that you have to hire and pay wages too. They will repair your ship, load up your guns and fire them during battles šŸ¤£

vivid locust
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Retser actually planned for that

strange bloom
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I don't think a silver based invoker in EN would drain billions. I do think its something mostly coded and would add to the outgoing trickle.

granite hamlet
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The whole redistribution or reconfiguring player services is outside the scope of silver generation and silver drains

strange bloom
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and trickles add up

vivid locust
timber nova
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You can get hire tiered crew members by paying into medical and 401k plans for them šŸ¤£

vivid locust
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the total amount in the system is one issue. Its distribution is another

granite hamlet
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I think we agree?

formal tulip
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I am curious what the "average" invoker user looks like. I know I personally have never used her

vivid locust
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Probably, yes

granite hamlet
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Itā€™s a different topic altogether

strange bloom
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I've run alts through the invoker and its a decent number of people each time

timber nova
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Person using the invoker is probably someone leveling up or hunting areas like SoS, war camps or OSA

vivid locust
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Its a different topic, but it feels like half a plan if we ONLY look at total M in the economy.

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I'll use OSA as an example

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Beyond the sloop...its more or less way way outside the range of the majority

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Now the sloop is all the majority needs

strange bloom
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I would pay a monthly or yearly service fee for access to a semi-private workshop in each town.

vivid locust
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but the prices on boats is bonkers

ocean fern
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isn't a semi-private workshop just a CHE workshop?

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unless you want the full benefit of a true private, but in the open

strange bloom
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CHE is 50, private is 75

formal tulip
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the challenge there is that's only for enchanting, it's not universally attractive

strange bloom
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That would be part of the system - making it universal

vivid locust
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A workshop that gave a bonus to all professions for a fee wouldn't be bad

formal tulip
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that said, I'd be down for paying handily in silvers for a Private Property for other reasons

vivid locust
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But again...are they going to provide bonuses to players to do services when the currently sell them for cash

strange bloom
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It's an outflow increase.

sturdy terrace
formal tulip
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same, the current prices, ironically, it's cheaper to do it myself, and you get more silvers while you do

vivid locust
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I'm not sure how much that defines the typical player

formal tulip
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it does not

strange bloom
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the typical player is MA

formal tulip
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yes, but the typical player doesn't think "it's cheaper to buy a sorc to do duskruin and my own ensorcelling"

strange bloom
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agree there

vivid locust
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Sure...but MA what? I'm MA. Its literally Jaysehn who i play, then a healer who sits around to heal Jaysehn, then a cleric who I usually forget to actually use who trolls around teras for resource then a bard who picks the pool so I have loresongs.

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I think very few people actively churn and burn their MA into an efficient machine of service providing

strange bloom
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That's not really my point.
It's an idea that would increase the amount of silvers leaving the game. One of many.

formal tulip
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I would say many of the people with 2 accounts are probably pretty efficient, and few people with more than 2 go there without a plan to be efficient

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wyrom did say that the vast majority of MA players are 2 accounts (40% of players I think?)

vivid locust
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Sure. Everyone likes a pocket (whatever)

granite hamlet
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I donā€™t like that

clever lava
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I think people would pay 100k/day for invoker access.

I'd pay 100k/day for a private workshop access for all services.

strange bloom
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Another idea I think is that they take some of the defunct/less popular DR armor and weapon scripts and convert them into silvers for permanent sale.

vivid locust
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100k a day for 24 hours of invoker buffs?

formal tulip
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I'd be skeptical of that price point, and my biggest reason is that players in the EN already get by without, they're unlikely to pony up much for something they can live without

clever lava
formal tulip
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hell, if people pay that much, I'd be offering full spellups for 50k a day

vivid locust
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I'm going to assume any 'pay for invoker' scheme would mean EVERYONE pays for invoker. Not just EN

clever lava
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Everyone.

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The free invoker should go.

strange bloom
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the entire GS alt currency is based on marginal gains for exorbitant prices

clever lava
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And there should be an invoker in each town.

strange bloom
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right, so if a silvers based invoker was in each town, I think it would do a lot for spreading out the population as well

vivid locust
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Yeah, I'm not sure what the deal with invoker is. "this is going away soon' has become 'this is the optimal way to do your in game business'

clever lava
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It could also be a scaling cost, 1k per level.

strange bloom
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mostly in the pre-cap end

clever lava
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1k per level, for 24 hours access, and the casting is on demand in a shop.

vivid locust
strange bloom
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I would make it a per 4hr cast thing

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25k or whatever and she buffs you the normal way

sturdy terrace
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Having it cost per 4 hour cast, but you can refresh it any time you like, would probably be attractive

strange bloom
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give it the WPS wagon treament. Pay dude to enter

clever lava
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I just died and lost all my spells and now I have to pay another 25k!1!1!1

strange bloom
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"have to"

vivid locust
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Man...you got invoker buffs. Stop dying

sturdy terrace
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Thereā€™s a large contingent of people that wonā€™t even leave town without an invoker on

vivid locust
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i know. i hate that. But its not my monkey and its not my circus

strange bloom
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and people would still cast "massies" for free

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so no real downside

vivid locust
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A concern I continue to have is who is actually going to be drained by these efforts. Event Box taught us that what wealth the GS middle/lower middle class has was taken by those event boxes. per Wyrom

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So if they are getting something of value, great. But if they can't ever replenish the coin in time for the next 'thing' of value, its a perpetual gap that grows

timber nova
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Add in an NPC that you pay to instant absorb what's in your head, depending on what's in your head the price is estimated

vivid locust
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its why I'm having thoughts about how you redistribute value down to lower earners in ways that isn't hunting, cause players who don't put in the 5 hours+ hunting a day are never going to generate meaningful silvers

timber nova
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another silver option, convert your experience between normal xp and ascension xp

vivid locust
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both ways?

timber nova
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yup

vivid locust
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I can see that

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I know some warriors feel 'had' by the fact that they have millions in spell ranks and then here comes KS.

formal tulip
clever lava
timber nova
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another option, change your padding type using the gears existing padding points, but only allows you to do it like the existing service system. from damage to crit or vice versa

vivid locust
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I agree thats the way to redistribute

granite hamlet
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That isnā€™t a solvable problem so long as you can leverage external assets

clever lava
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Redistribution isn't going to help anything.

vivid locust
clever lava
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You can't just move the silvers around, you have to remove them.

timber nova
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it allows people to undo bad decisions?

vivid locust
clever lava
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Pay for invoker - removes some silvers from what would be generated from hunting.

timber nova
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another option would be to lower gear difficulty with silvers like the padding service window

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but it would always be up

clever lava
#

I don't think moving silvers around resolves any part of the actual problem

timber nova
#

I'm not saying move it around. I'm saying an NPC does these things

#

so silvers go poof

clever lava
#

That was towards Jaysehn

timber nova
#

oh sorry

#

gear difficulty npc, reduce as much difficulty you want for that window via silvers but pricing increases similar to padding

vivid locust
#

I keep coming back to the end result of this. Okay. We get silver generation under control. Now...what are the things in the game that changes?

#

Nothing that will sell for cash is going to be sold for silver. So what are we saying silver is going to be 'for'

#

Cause right now, I don't have alot of silver and I don't really care. Cause it pretty much buys me nothing

granite hamlet
#

Introduce communism!

ocean fern
#

prime is three steps towards being shattered already, might as well go whole hog

#

we got hints at what silvers are going to be for - charm system, enhancive rerolling, we also got RoL silver shops with, admittedly non mechanical, new scripted items that are extremely complex and long time asks

atomic raven
#

Sell "money flares" to add to weapons. The percentage chance to flare is based on how much money is in your bank but every flare drains it by 0.001%

ocean fern
#

upgrade to gambling kits, new tier with an extremely high silvers held weightlessly, but each time you cast a spell or attack in any way there is a chance it flares and uses a random percentage to deal damage

#

silvers are only weightless if the kit is worn and available to flare

timber nova
#

wealth compression in GS, introduce new gold currency that everyone has to exchange their silvers for and eliminate the existing currency šŸ¤£

ocean fern
#

that was brought up "recently" and I thought someone said another game tried that it didn't go very well

atomic raven
timber nova
#

oh sorry

#

I'm just throwing things out there, didn't know it was mentioned already. heh

atomic raven
#

Good idea methinks

formal tulip
#

I've only seen wealth compression done in one game, and it was fine but it wasn't about income, it was just about making numbers smaller, but they just literally chopped a 0 off everything.

atomic raven
#

How about simu straight buys out all the silvers to burn them....

formal tulip
vivid locust
atomic raven
#

A one time sell all your silvers for simu/stillfront stock lol

#

10m per share

strange bloom
#

I really think that is a terrible idea

atomic raven
#

Or storyline for one year where all bank accounts are frozen for the RP

#

Bank heist storyline!

#

high end silver menu whether voluntary or forced is my vote

timber nova
#

adding other silver sinks like the gear difficulty reduction might be better than having to build items for a silver auction all the time and running it time wise

#

add another hidden difficulty that gets upped every time you reduce difficulty which increases the cost over time and have the windows like the padding/weighting

atomic raven
#

Let's add both item breakage AND silver coin spoilage where it crumbles if not used in one year

timber nova
#

the difference between this service from an NPC and buying potions that increase what you can do is that you don't have to wait years to get your item reduced in difficulty. so it wouldn't cut into that market

#

add in game apartments for anyone to pay rental fees in silvers, depending on how many rooms it increases monthly

#

I know there are premium homes, but these will be apartments. You could have one in each town

granite hamlet
#

Why would you want one

timber nova
#

when I was a premmy I never used my player home so good question. But other people use it? I would think it would be for non premmys

atomic raven
#

My wizard never sleeps and never eats... he doesn't need such trifles as an apartment

timber nova
#

if you log out at in a home or apartment, your offline experience gain works as if you were online?

atomic raven
#

That could be cool. They need more incentives for people to log off and play less haha

timber nova
#

also you convert tps while offline now

#

logging out in a home

clever lava
#

They should be roleplaying props with purchasable functions.

  • Add a kitchen/Cooking upgrade - 50m
  • Add a bedroom/Functional bed - 50m
  • Basic stocked pantry - 10m
  • Storage container - 10m per 10 pounds.
atomic raven
#

I think if it boosted time based stuff then that would be cool

timber nova
#

gotta give someone a reason to want to log out in their home.

clever lava
#

The point is for them to spend money, what they do with it doesn't matter

vivid locust
#

I have liked the idea of a system of purchasable 'homes' that are done room by room. Call them apartments or whatever. Use selections of pre-generated room descriptions like OSA captain's quarters with swappable upgrades in the rooms.

#

I'd pay plenty for something like that

#

I remember fondly the player housing system of that ill-fated MMO Wildstar. It was where I spent all my money. It was a big blank slate of a room that you could do tons with

timber nova
#

we need a bard singing queue like the locksmith pool too.

#

šŸ¤£

#

or an NPC that will do it

woven elm
#

Bring back slow time!

#

The biggest redistributive force in the game continues to be player services, so the solution there continues to be get the rest of the services out, I think.

#

In terms of silver sinks, charms and the reroller both seem pretty reasonable to me as a starting point.

strange bloom
#

but that redistribution has an end state. Presumably people are not perpetually buying gear and then improving it with services

elfin latch
#

just catching up in here, I just wanted to see today since a lot of people think making like 1m silvers requires you playing 10 hours a day

I hunted the forest of HW for an hour, just silver hunting going to drop boxes off when I was full and selling, and waiting for a bit of mana before going back out, I didnt do any bounties or anything like that im a DE with max trading that was selling in FWI, I made 998,882 silvers. I wouldnt even really consider what I was doing min max for silver hunting either I was using 717 on a lot of stuff and losing out on some loot and I'm willing to bet I'd have better TTK in SoS or the scatter than I was in the forest giving me more mobs killed thus more loot.

I typically never silver hunt, I just wanted to see what I could "casually" do in an hour. I consider casually to mean I didnt do anything outside my normal hunting routine other than I never stopped to rest.

#

I am max in FA and Survival too so I was skinning, I was also lazy and using the pool to open my boxes losing some money there.

timber nova
#

yeah, I earn silvers pretty quickly too which is why it confuses me that people don't make 2m in a month. It just tells me what a lot of our players don't really play the game?

elfin latch
#

I mean my silver gen is prob more in the 200k per hour lane though normally, I'll check some logs when I can. I just wanted to see what happens if I was like never stop hunting.

woven elm
#

I would say that most people donā€™t hunt for silvers at all, so their income is limited to what they get on the way to getting fried. (These players arenā€™t necessarily completing bounties.)

#

I appreciate this experiment! It does show whatā€™s possible.

junior pier
#

I have periodically tried hunting pretty hard for silvers, and mostly find that I am bound by weight and creature gen time. I'm rarely able to approach 200k in an hour, even shifting towards hunting grounds like the Frozen Bramble that gen pretty fast.

sturdy terrace
#

I think a whole lot of people rest until clear, hunt until fried and go right back to town. If you arenā€™t hunting beyond fried, turning bounties over quickly etc youā€™re probably just not gonna make much, even if you play daily

junior pier
#

In places like the Vineyard, I fill up with box weight, and gen is much slower, and it's hard to get much above 150k per hour. And that's with no resting for exp gain.

timber nova
#

I mean with the box pool, you can immediately run back to town and unload and then run right back to hunt. pretty much very little downtime

vivid locust
#

My guy absolutely could silver farm the Pit of the Dead. I, the player, don't have the time to play the hours necessary. Nor do I think do I have the stamina to manually hunt anything for an hour straight, let alone hours straight.

latent night
#

yeah, it's draining to do the whole silver hunt thing. I do the clear -> fried hunting and work on bounties. I should get something to track my silvers and break down stats..but I'm not sure if something already exists for that and it sounds like more effort than I want to put in if it doesn't

#

and I use bigshot these days to put less strain on my hands.. and having to sit there and just watch for hours..meh

woven elm
#

The vineyard produces so many boxes that I do return to town to drop them off in the course of doing a single bounty, but thatā€™s fairly exceptional.

vivid locust
#

Vineyard seems like exactly the sort of place I would expect high end treasure. Mid level hunting with relatively difficult critters for their level range plus sever and divergence

ocean fern
#

crazy idea, push the majority of silver generating loot into the lower levels to populate them with characters so when new people show up there are people to interact with, crack down heavy on any automated hunting, attentive or not

#

come up with alternative treasure for higher levels

vagrant hull
latent night
#

Yeah, there's bank that gives an idea of what you made that day

woven elm
#

I downloaded ledger recently to track this, although you will need to go manually download some ruby gems for it

latent night
#

but it doesn't break down stats

#

Ah right, I should check out ledger

clever lava
#

I wonder if offering all of HESS for silver at twice the price (in millions) vs bloodscrip would take a nice dent.

So 500k Xaz = 1 billion silvers, etc.

Events wouldn't be devalued because it would cost twice as much in silvers, so event currency would be the bargain.

vivid locust
#

Thats not a crazy idea....even if you are cash buyer of silver, you aren't going to want to pay double silver rates when you can just farm it yourself.

#

Dunno how they feel about that bottom line though

turbid forge
#

why wouldn't people just use the silver on event boxes to convert to another currency at much better rates

vivid locust
#

True. Hadn't factored second party event box sales

wary hedge
# woven elm I downloaded ledger recently to track this, although you will need to go manuall...

I have been using ledger as well, though there are some caveats that I have seen thus far.

  1. For me as a MA player, I don't get a breakdown of what each character has brought in (maybe it is my configuration, but it is all just one single listing). I know the data exists separately as I can see it in the database.
  2. I have to remember to disable it when I am depositing larger sums of silvers from player services or selling things in shops. I don't care about tracking that, I just want to know what I am generating.
clever lava
#

I'd pay well to bring back the original fusion system. T3 Orbs.

  • Add fusion jewelry, make it cost for each slot with scaling increases.
    OTS 1 slot = 1m, Add a slot = 10m, add a third slot = 50m, add a fourth slot is 200m.
strange bloom
#

fusion, as a subset of enhancives, I think would be a great system to convert to silvers only

#

and then exapand

#

I would like some insight into how racial selling penalties play into the loot cap.

#

if at all

vivid locust
#

Can we just get rid of ALL racial selling penalties please? Make bonuses for citizenship and move on

#

Its such a ridiculous concept at this point of the game's lifespan

strange bloom
#

very much and I'll probably make a forum post about it, but was hoping to know if it has an impact on the loot cap before doing so

ocean fern
#

I thought they did remove all penalties based on race already?

formal tulip
#

new towns tend to have no penalties, but it hasn't gone back to the older ones

ocean fern
#

ah, I thought it was part of the shake up during the summer of 2020

vivid locust
#

Some of them are just absent reality. Sure, krolvin aren't gonna be popular in the Landing....but if the same half-krolvin comes into kilron a dozen times and has things to sell, i'm sure Kilron will get over the blue skin

elfin latch
vivid locust
formal tulip
#

that's my take on a lot of it, even if kilron doesn't get over it, somebody else would

vivid locust
#

It also imparts stuff on the NPCs that maybe we don't want to impart

#

Is Kilron really a raging half-krol hater? No matter what? Exact same sentiment in the exact same proportion held by every other merchant in town? Seems unlikely.

formal tulip
#

it was also spilled recently that the penalties are per shop, not a blanket town setting or anything, so it wouldn't even have to be all at once.

vivid locust
#

All at once is fine with me. Thanos snap. Move on. I cannot honestly think anyone in this game really would be mad if the racial penalties went. Leave the bonuses if you want, just end the penalties

woven elm
#

would definitely agree that racial selling penalties should break off into another forum thread

vivid locust
#

true true. Off I go

formal tulip
#

oh, there are people arguing against it in the threads that already exist, so yeah

buoyant sparrow
winged prairie
#

Politically, itā€™s obviously way easier for the staff to increase silver sinks as opposed to further reducing the inflow. The whole point of these types of changes is to increase/preserve silver values and keep the player base happy. If a new, more aggressive loot cap were to be put in place, and it causes a few dozen players to be enraged and quit, thatā€™s counterproductive.

I do think that the current loot cap is helpful, and fine in the sense that players have already been forced to ā€œdeal with itā€. Rather than tightening the cap, I really think staff needs to be hyper-focused on giving people more avenues to spend their silver. It doesnā€™t matter if 5 billion or 500 billion silver is generated each month. If enough silver is leaving the game, the market value will move in the right direction.

vagrant hull
#

Consumables that scale with level in both effect and cost

vivid locust
#

Im going to attempt a full 1 hour hw hunt with minimal stops. No rest, just healing and treasure drops. See where we end up. Im curious on the results

vivid locust
#

Only had 45 minutes before I got interrupted.
100% pit of the dead hunting. Valravn skins. Sold everything except for scrolls. 18 boxes total. 15 of them opened so far.
[bank: New balance for the day: 414674]
Not sure on what conclusions to draw, another 15 mins probably gets me around 500k or so total. Noteable, I'm a warrior. We don't usually have the fastest kills, especially in the Pit.

So, if I was tempted to go for soft cap, its basically 32 hours of hunting at this pace assuming loot pressure holds.

ocean fern
#

how loaded up with RP props were you? did you optimize your storage to stay in the field while killing? are you selling during down time?

timber nova
#

why do you have to have anything to optimize storage in HW? You just type ;go2 locksmithpool, dump boxes and you are back out there within seconds

#

you don't need to optimize anything

#

oh and deposit the silvers in the bank while you are there

ocean fern
#

I think I can hold like 1 both if I don't unload to specifically hunt lol, probably a me problem

timber nova
#

in HW, if my RT starts to go up, I dump and head back because it adds more time dealing with the RT

#

I could easily drop 100 boxes in there in a short amount of time

uneven tendon
#

Now you've got me curious to try this.

timber nova
#

I say short, but it's not really short... maybe a 2-4 hours?

#

haven't done it in months

ocean fern
#

bring back the lumnis competition - top farmers in a dedicated 6 hour period every six months set the loot cap at a % of what they bring in

#

you get a grace period during the competition time where no cap is applied to you

timber nova
#

it wouldn't really work well with loot pressure.

#

that's still a thing and all areas are impacted by it. It's not like you could pull boxes like crazy constantly. all depends on the state of the area

iron rune
uneven tendon
#

Okay, 45 minutes of hunting in. Now to sell all this loot and open the boxes and figure out the results.

strange bloom
#

I do my data collection by monsters killed, not by time killing. It's personal pref but I find it easier to normalize over varying spawn rates and who is in an area

elfin latch
#

hour in the pits basically same as my rule set from before , going to drop boxes in the pool when full looting the empty boxes out at that time selling off and going back out to hunt.

1,284,184

vivid locust
#

I think melā€™s results show a huge difference in killing power and speed. I had to retreat from a few spots and run back to my cold river healer. I had a few swarms i couldnt just fight through

granite hamlet
#

now post your experience levels!

vivid locust
#

Im like 13m with like 1 mil asc?

#

Maybe 14m?

elfin latch
#

theres a delta on exp there and likely gear.

strange bloom
#

I think the take away here really is that hitting the soft cap is not some extreme endeavor that is only done by people afk scripting 20 hours a day

elfin latch
#

if your goal is to silver hunt, you can casually do it in the first half a month

#

imo

vivid locust
#

A single disir kill for me is like 20-25 seconds

#

For reference

elfin latch
#

the angry ghosts are my long kills

#

like 9-15 seconds

vivid locust
#

They are similar because of fade

elfin latch
#

other stuff is wishy washy but its mostly in the 6 range

strange bloom
#

and this type of silver earning is not really unique to HW

elfin latch
#

I'll try and SoS run and a Scatter run at some point

#

but not today

vivid locust
#

Valravn and dragr are both cry (3 sec) and then one assault. So like 9-10

strange bloom
elfin latch
#

no thank you.

vivid locust
#

I wouldnt even tey

strange bloom
#

šŸ¤£

vivid locust
#

Try

#

Thats just ā€˜come get killedā€™

#

I will also say, HW is the only place ive pulled decent enhancives out of. Ive pulled about 4-5 worth a few mil each

elfin latch
#

ME and dread isnt something i want to do for an hour

vivid locust
#

I cant. Id die

strange bloom
uneven tendon
#

Okay, looks like I got 794,673 in 45 minutes. That's if I sold all the gems unpurified, though, which I wouldn't.

elfin latch
#

This is for another topic but the risk reward is way off for ME its a great zone but its over tuned for what you get out of it.

strange bloom
#

Dread makes time... yea, not gonna work

vivid locust
#

Solo leafi?

uneven tendon
#

Yes.

vivid locust
#

Cleric?

uneven tendon
#

Also with 28% Trading bonus, so hey. Yes, cleric, on Leafi.

vivid locust
#

Makes sense. Warrior ttk is legit low.

strange bloom
#

I still wish someone would tell us the impact trading has on the loot cap

elfin latch
#

I should note leafi was out there while i was so numbers might be inflated to do better spawns

timber nova
#

yeah hunting in ME does not output the same silver earnings as HW or even the scatter

strange bloom
#

since this mini experiment is being done on the 19th

elfin latch
#

Or i might have tanked her numbers

timber nova
#

ME loot is trash compared to HW and the Scatter

cerulean bear
#

but it's already the 19th, so arent you well into soft cap by now? so those numbers are with the cap already?

vivid locust
#

ME got better recently

uneven tendon
#

I have to run from angargeists, so honestly you probably helped my numbers if anything by killing them. šŸ¤£

vivid locust
#

Pressure gone

timber nova
#

by noticeable difference. ME is just not worth the instant deaths too

strange bloom
elfin latch
timber nova
#

even in the mornings logging in at 4-5am, I usually pull a lot of good loot from different places. I never pull good loot from ME

#

no matter the time. when I go in, it's empty too like no one has been there for a long time

elfin latch
#

My big problem with loot cap isnt the soft or hard numbers its was the grouping part

#

Thats being adressed so its gravy to me

timber nova
#

yeah, my issue as well.

uneven tendon
#

The castle part of Moonsedge is more difficult than everything in the Hinterwilds except maybe the area with disciples. And it's probably harder than that too on spawn rate alone.

timber nova
#

I just don't like group penalty. Whenever I'm in the soft cap it doesn't bother me when I solo hunt

#

as soon as I join a group it's like boom nothing

vivid locust
#

You can also just drop to the floor in me from fear. No retreat for you

elfin latch
#

I posted some numbers because i think that was getting lost in the calling x y z people a 1-5er%

#

And i typically never loot hunt like this

#

Its all about that exp for me.

uneven tendon
#

Gotta admit... I haven't been to the Hinterwilds for probably a couple months now, but after tracking those numbers, now I wonder if I should. šŸ˜‚

elfin latch
#

For some people its exp some its loot some its RP it just stinks when we reduce any of those things for people imo.

vivid locust
#

Auchand pumped the spawns. So loot is good again

strange bloom
#

pumpupthejam.gif

iron rune
timber nova
#

all of you guys actually hunting for silvers for an hour are going to break Wyrom's reports and scare them this month

woven elm
#

ā€œWeā€™ve temporarily added the word l**t to the discord automod to address some issues.ā€

cerulean bear
merry swan
#

I attempted to win at gemstone and burned some major loot boosts in HW (until the legendary was found). I'm thinking I'm skewing some stuff since Ive pocketed a few mil for January. Still don't think that places me in the top since I'm only IG hunting for around 50k exp weekly

vivid locust
#

Fwiw- hw and me are HARD content. I want good rewards. Doesnt have to be silver, but i want rewards to meet the challenge

strange bloom
#

with the same rewards and the same loot cap, why bother? You could farm in a single day and hit the soft cap

uneven tendon
elfin latch
#

I wasnt running a boost just fyi

wary hedge
#

These numbers make me want to consider trying HW.

elfin latch
wary hedge
#

Ooof. Those exp levels are high. Almost makes me wish I didn't walk away from the game for 15 years.

vivid locust
#

Alter books. Non-standard slot enhancives. Caligos 100 shell pile equivalent drops. Rare fodder or flavor drops (disir feathers) and so on

#

You can cap silver but still make loot interesting and exciting. Right now, its one of the most stagnant aspects of the game

strange bloom
#

give people things to spend that silver on, perpetually.

clever lava
#

I think we've shown collectively we have no self control. If treasure dropped alter books, the GMs would be overwhelmed.

lusty veldt
#

If treasure dropped alter books, I'd actually hunt. Hnnnnnnnnnng.

clever lava
#

If it wasn't a "GALD" alter and was instead like the wedding book alters, I could see that working.

formal tulip
#

That's what alter book refers to

#

It's the common name of the wedding book is alter book

clever lava
#

I see.

vivid locust
#

Id have them drop at same rate as disir feathers. Ill bet less than 50 of those exist in game

lusty veldt
#

Oh I see, so I'll hit the loot cap trying to get one šŸ˜‚

vivid locust
#

Heh

#

Ive found 3 disir feather and 5 valravn quills since HW opened

lusty veldt
#

Never been, I hear it's cold there.

vivid locust
#

Actuallyā€¦pit of the dead has basically no cold damage šŸ˜†

lusty veldt
#

Sounds like a lovely place.

vivid locust
#

We have a swell air bnb here

timber nova
#

hunting HW (only in pits) for an hour with no boost, about 700k so far and 37 boxes I haven't opened yet.

#

additional info: 23 percent trading bonus, rogue 59m xp, solo hunting, will update the numbers when boxes are finished

#

also I'd recommend keeping your boxes in the pool because picking your own boxes cuts into the return on loot. Picking is a waste of time compared what you could be earning in the field. Still picking those boxes...

#

only time picking is worth it is when you hit the 100 box limit in the queue

#

finaly tally: 1,144,691

vivid locust
#

How fast are you kills?

#

I'm there with you atm, just curious

timber nova
#

hmm... to be honest I don't track that

vivid locust
#

ballpark it?

#

Like angars and disir

#

the others are quick

timber nova
#

so with angars, I sweep, hide, mug, fury. They'll usually die through that or need another punch. Disir, I sweep, hide, subdue, mug, punch to death. Sometimes they can die on the mug or punch but will at times require to do that multiple times

vivid locust
#

sounds similar to me

timber nova
#

angars might need two furys but all depends on flares going off and such

vivid locust
#

disir for me are disarm, cry, hamstring, hamstring, spell cleave, thrash>flurry> mblow til dead

#

Yeah, they fade out on me

#

I hardly ever get an angar killed before a fade

timber nova
#

yeah Disir can be really tough at times or not others.

vivid locust
#

yeah, I can sometime slip a crit on them and take off their head. Its only chain up there

timber nova
#

I really hate the fade, it's random when it occurs and could mess up that whole fury when they fade on the first punch

vivid locust
#

yup. Root or symbol of disruption should prevent it

#

alas

timber nova
#

I usually just leave the room and do something else as they are faded

#

my loot numbers also didn't include the enhancives I found above 35k, no idea how many I pulled or if they are worth anything

#

I guess 1 hour of hunting in the game is something that the GMs don't think is valid play if we are tossing out stuff that the loot cap should of been 12m? heh...

#

seems to be too much reliance on reports rather then experience in game. no offense on that just from what everyone is reporting. You can get similar level of loot from other areas

vivid locust
#

Hinterwilds is a weird spot for loot. its hard enough that a huge group of people can't really do it. On the other hand, its just swarmy enough to keep up with easier places for loot

timber nova
#

if you are able to do it, you could easily get just as much or better from the south side of the scatter if it's swarming

vivid locust
#

I feel like south scatter in swarm mode is harder for me than Pits

#

but I haven't been there in months

timber nova
#

I whip out the double hand crossbows for that

#

where in HW I use UCS

#

with shield

vivid locust
#

yeah, I'm a thw/twc guy

timber nova
#

net flares helps out quite a bit for dealing with swarms and if you macro everything right toggling them out to throw a shield or use other weapon skills helps quite a bit

#

just need a lot of stamina regen

#

I have enhancives but don't use them. didn't even use them for the HW hunting for that hour

#

almost have 23m in ascension though

vivid locust
#

yeah i'm an enhancive junky. Total Russian doping program here. I've got about 95 base stam regen with them, more if I catch a KS absorb.

timber nova
#

That reminds me I did overexert myself by accident during that hunt and waited it out before hunting again in that hour.

#

Without maneuvers hunting isnā€™t possible for me in HW

vivid locust
#

Yeah, I don't know how any square even works with blown muscles. Its like getting teleported back to GS3 preguild

sturdy terrace
#

it really should just be moved to a nervous system injury

#

with increasing severity and knock-on effects, healed with herbs, etc

vivid locust
#

I'd agree, but I doubt they will bother. lots of ways to remove it on the spot now a days

timber nova
#

are there x a day wands for it?

#

or something

clever lava
#

There are x/day 1107

#

a bright yellow potion trinket

timber nova
#

was that from DR?

clever lava
#

yeah

iron rune
dense ferry
#

Stealing from creatures can produce treasure as if you LOOTed their corpse.
I don't think this means you can only loot it once. It means you can only steal from it once. Creatures don't spawn with their loot do they? I thought it was generated on search.

iron rune
woven elm
#

yes my understanding is that mug is double loot

timber nova
#

yup, double loot

#

and you also get a quick tier up

#

with UCS

iron rune
#

Guess Iā€™m playing with cmans again

honest hull
timber nova
#

well... sort of. we aren't killing as fast as some so it may ultimate balance out

cerulean bear
#

mug should just be a passive where each attack has a chance of stealing extra loot

timber nova
#

it's better being able to use a 2 second attack for a tier up

#

I'm not really a fan if mug changes from what it is now

#

unless there is an added bonus to also give subsequent passive chances

#

but definitely a hard pass on changing it from what it is now to passive

atomic raven
#

Just completed the viral "hash tag" 45 min HW silver hunt challenge and got the following. Note that this is day 21 of the lootcap and I hunt alot daily.
Total haul for 45m hunting western HW: 631K
Gems: 255k
Boxes (Everything Inside): 194k (only 34 boxes)
Skins: 123k
Pawnshop Items: 30k
Direct Silvers Looted: 29k

#

I did try an earlier one in north HW but its just too hard to be consistent and abandoned it after 10 minutes

formal tulip
#

just for my knowledge, when you say "boxes:194k" does that mean that the actual boxes themselves are worth that, or is there some HW loot element I'm not following?

#

or is the box-found silver as a separate line item from just raw looted silver?

random orchid
formal tulip
#

that would explain why I'm not familiar with the format. Thanks for confirming it. I know in the long, long ago, the gold boxes etc. were worth selling for a little extra, but I figured that was nerfed like all else by now

random orchid
#

If theyā€™re selling the physical boxes that would be part of pawnshop total

atomic raven
#

Sorry, the boxes were EVERYTHING inside the box (gems, items, silver, etc.). I was more interested in seeing the sources of loot value. I assume most the box loot was split 50/50 silvers/gems

#

(I manually kept track because i wanted to keep box source seperate, no eloot used)

uneven tendon
#

Have to admit, it's kind of troubling to me to have learned that I could basically outdo the monthly median in about an hour and I haven't been bothering to do so for the entire length of time the Hinterwilds have existed. šŸ¤£

Kinda liberating in a way to know now, though. "If I decide I really need X player service, then I can just do one loot hunt a day for Y days..."

cerulean bear
#

yea i've avoided HW b/c only a few of my alts could handle it there, but now i kinda feel like i should move some of them over

#

although at the end of the day it's just hitting the cap faster....

#

also back then, the mapdb and go2 was all messed up and sloot wasn't able to sell everything

iron rune
#

Where in lies the issues for us that have been doing it for awhile and play a lot

timber nova
#

this is why it both amazes me and confuses me that the soft loot cap and the group penalties lasted as long as they have and were deemed acceptable by Simu. It was never that difficult to hit them at all. Decisions are not being made based off of actual game play but off of reporting.

#

you don't even really have to play a lot to hit these caps

elfin latch
#

I don't think the people trying to see how much we can pull from the system are "average players" either. If at some point I'm motivated to do so I'll test someplace on an alt thats not as geared or leveled.

timber nova
#

true, but what kind of message does it send that all that work you put in for all those years to get more powerful in a game really means nothing because if you do get powerful or even get powerful items, you are just going to hit a wall of penalties a lot quicker then you use to so that the rest of your game time is less rewarding for the rest of the month. Doesn't sound like there is a good reason to build up a character or invest a lot of time in the game

#

a lot of us are already at that point where experience doesn't really have good returns so silver makes up for that

strange bloom
#

As another example of how loot is broken in this game, I am switching a capped char to voln so spent the weekend farming favor and performing voln steps. I was destroying undead well outside below what I can learn from. In 2 days I made close to 5 million from just looting and I was no where near killing as efficiently as I could.

timber nova
#

which means you already beat out the reports by more than double the average player's monthly return of 2m. heh...

#

which can be done in less than 2 hours for earning 2m

ocean fern
#

not everyone power games all day, is the take away here. Not sure why this continues to be rediscovered and such a crazy idea

timber nova
#

I wouldn't call that power gaming

ocean fern
#

I think thats the problem/disconnect

timber nova
#

I think the problem is driving the future of the game from reporting rather then actual game experience

elfin latch
#

I'm not sure I'd consider 4 hours a month to be double the amount of the average power gaming either.

timber nova
#

would a power gamer be like 8+ hours a day?

ocean fern
#

its technically two or more concepts rolled into one here -
first is total session play time, which is extremely low last it was reported, something like 20-30 minutes? Lets be generous and call it an hour

Second is style of hunting, as was done by a few people here, they tracked silver gains along with trying to optimize their intake, thats power gaming, if you are optimizing for maximum effect the entire time with single focus- generate silvers. You see this most obviously during DR when people optimize to earn max BS in the lowest time or per entry etc.

Third, no one discussing in this conversation is in any form casual

elfin latch
#

Where was total session play time talked about?

ocean fern
#

it was in previous comments/forums posts, let me see if I can dredge up a post.

#

or do you mean here and now? if here and now, I am tossing it in because that factors into monthly total times etc.

elfin latch
#

I don't mean here

#

I'd just be interested to read where it was talked about, as I have missed it.

ocean fern
#

ok it looks like median session time is an hour actually. I thought it was lower. Buried down near hte bottom of this post last it was said:
#1057128408745787462 message

#

its lumped in with F2P user percentage, but I am pretty sure it means all accounts not just F2P time

elfin latch
#

I'll give it a read, I'm not saying its not a correct number. But i'm always slightly side eye of how we filter out data here or not

ocean fern
#

sure, there are outliers that are going to skew things for sure.

elfin latch
#

like when I log all my guys in for 10 seconds to get dailys how do they factor are we factoring the guy who sits at a table till the end of time holding it

#

I also very much agree the people testing what can be done in an hour are not what I would consider casual players either.

#

but any numbers i'm tossing out there are just me hitting ;wander and attack for an hour im not even trying to min max my gains

#

I'm stopping to empty boxes out of the pool when I turn drop off other boxes ect.

timber nova
#

I wouldn't say I optimized my gains in HW either. didn't use enhancives and forgot two extra spells when I posted that gain a few days ago from an hour in HW

ocean fern
#

you also have TTK, which is a product of items, skill assignment and total experience, which you hinted at as well recently I believe, or someone did. A lot of people are off in one or more of those areas.

timber nova
#

yeah but you can't really paint a picture that in a game where you are earning experience you are just gaining it to be nerfed or punished for your play time. Why buy cool gear or anything like that?

elfin latch
timber nova
#

what's the point of buying items that optimize your coin intake? coin hands? and such?

#

when the game is being designed around people that play 1 hour a day if that.

sturdy terrace
#

It doesn't seem reasonable that someone who plays 30 minutes a day should expect to be able to afford the same gear as someone who plays 12 hours a day, loot cap or no loot cap. At a certain point you get back something proportionate to what you put in

timber nova
#

also if the game were really designed around someone playing 1 hour a day then ascension wouldn't be 50k exp per point either..

#

just seems to be a pick and choose when to design the game around different player types

elfin latch
timber nova
#

worse grind I've ever seen in a game. heh...

ocean fern
# timber nova yeah but you can't really paint a picture that in a game where you are earning e...

Here is my personal problem when you frame the issue like that - the only path to much more power gear, outside of professional services from other players, is through the secondary silvers -> cash/event currency market. Meaning the most prolific of silver producers can really only be benefitting from RMT in one form or another to get the benefits of having so many silvers. I'm really not interested in caring if they can't make cash on the side from playing all day, scripting or not.
When/if powerful items or benefits are sold on the regular in the game directly for silvers, I'll start to care. Until then, an extremely small handful of players not making another 100m a month is not going to make me lose sleep.

I don't think we are seeing a rise in players wanting to try and hit the silvers caps either, so its not some mass impact situation

elfin latch
#

silvers are and all or nothing sort of game as it stands, is why people don't try imo

#

you either have all the silvers and get something nice you or have some silvers and get nothing

#

the game does a terrible job allowing us to use silvers on things that would be meaningful to us

strange bloom
#

Which I think brings me back to my fundamental point- more effort needs to be spent on things in game to spend silvers on, in a perpetual basis.

elfin latch
#

basically on any level of play

ocean fern
#

I think almost all of us are in agreement on that - give us options to spend. And it looks like that is scheduled to be attempted this year

timber nova
#

gear difficulty reduction wagon for silvers sounds like an easy win. works like a WPS window, reduce it by 20 or however you want to spend per window.

#

add a new attribute to gear called player difficulty, leave the existing one but then have all the services go off of player difficulty which can be reduced by that service

#

initial release just has it take the initial difficulty value

#

leave it out all the time though

ocean fern
#

or an attribute on the item marked to be a negative bonus to gear score which can be improved by a class service or wagon/merchant

timber nova
#

that too

#

seems to be a lot of ways to take silvers out of the game without punishing your players. But in a sense I have no issues with the hard cap. I just don't think the soft cap is at the right spot at all

#

and it's been ignored

sweet vapor
timber nova
#

sorry I mean players that play 30 minutes a day since soft cap starts at 16m

iron rune
timber nova
#

Wyrom stated if it were up to him the cap would be 12m

timber nova
sweet vapor
#

which players do you think are playing 30 minutes a day of nonstop grinding the pits in HW?

elfin latch
#

my first numbers are from the forest

#

and im working on sanctum numbers now

timber nova
#

any player that really wants to can do that. If you can easily do it then why punish players for doing it?

elfin latch
#

I'll be going through each zone

#

I'm also very aware my numbers will be higher than normal

orchid cliff
#

Should throw out there - how many characters in the game can even survive the pits? Now take that and remove all who can't survive there for an hour straight.

There are some pretty hefty gear and XP limitations to remain that safe. If the increased risk doesnt lead to increased reward, it's just a treadmill for the treadmill's sake. That's not a gameplay loop to encourage

sweet vapor
timber nova
#

I was hunting the scatter as soon as I capped and didn't even have hcp gear and had a 4x weapon and armor. I've done it on many other characters which equally bad gear. I could farm the scatter just as easily.

strange bloom
timber nova
#

granted I might not be pulling the amount of silvers I'm pulling now. But I still could pull in pretty good amounts of silvers. If I could casually do it with just hitting cap then other could do it

#

we are talking about HW right now, but Scatter has just as good loot at times

#

and I've done really well in there on other character that just capped with crap gear

#

the point I'm trying to make though is that what's the point in getting to that point if it's going to be punished or penalized?

atomic raven
#

I mowed down west HW to get that 600K+, it would be interesting to see what a 1.5x cap swinger could clear

timber nova
#

I've hunted HW on a 2x wizard and 1x empath in the area NW and was pulling good coins too. I don't think it was the easiest thing though. But those characters have really bad gear

atomic raven
#

the barrier to entry is definitely experience and gear combo so hopefully no fresh caps see these numbers and go in blazing

iron rune
timber nova
#

definitely gated by fear

atomic raven
#

They should really add atleast 1 fear based acension ability SOON, it wouldnt even be that hard.... 5 influence and 5 discipline boom you can get ascension unlocked skill 0/5 fear ascension available which adds +5 to fear def (just like porter)

timber nova
#

or remove fear and just give voln armor and voln courage some other benefits

sweet vapor
#

regardless of how you try to come up with scenarios, the fact remains that almost no one in the game hits the loot cap or even comes close - that's not to discount that it affects those players negatively, but let's not ignore the fact that it does benefit those players, in some way, for their silvers to maintain/increase in value because of a stable economy (rather than earning billions of silvers that ultimately have no value).

Meanwhile, I don't think we should balance around "anyone could hit the loot cap (but almost no one does), but I don't want anything that might limit me if I chose to try and hit it...because I could (but I don't)!"

timber nova
#

just from the numbers and results people are posting

#

just easy to hit that soft cap pretty quickly if you are hitting 1m an hour

sweet vapor
#

many of us could hit the hard cap - if we wanted to...but we don't - so for many it's a matter of "this doesn't affect me...but it could...so I don't like it because what if I want to?" - meanwhile it is likely to benefit all of us by making silvers stable/valuable in the long run.

timber nova
#

but it isn't really. because no drains are really going in.

#

the event boxes aren't enough and I feel like the silver auction is a waste of resources when something more steady could be implemented

sweet vapor
#

or they do both?

timber nova
#

event boxes were an amazing idea though

sweet vapor
#

b/c they are working on silver drains, and they are working on an auction to try and drain the top 5%...these are not necessarily mutually exclusive

atomic raven
timber nova
#

the amount of time put into creating new items though could be spent with a more steady drain. We already have a lot of items broken that were sold at silver auctions. Has what's that armor called been fixed yet?

atomic raven
#

Normal player might take 1 month and go crazy but probably not doing it every day of every month

sweet vapor
#

steady drain is not going to drain the top 5% - they need to do both, and they are

#

steady drain is long-term so it's not really impacted much, in the long-term, by spending some time working on a massive short-term drain that seems quite necessary as well

orchid cliff
#

This is a 30 year old problem. There needed to be remediation for people clearly breaking the system, it's the petty things like the soft cap that most take umbrage with

timber nova
#

I get it. I have a huge issue with soft capped because it was a souring experience when I first experienced it. I saved a ton of money to buy an MoW. Bought it closer to the end of the month. Then used it and loot was near nothing and that was because 1 character out of a group of 3 was barely in soft cap.

I of course was offered a refund, but all I really wanted was that penalty to be addressed. It made no sense to me that is how it worked. I was ultimately told it's the way it works so I had no choice but to take the refund. It turned something that was suppose to be an exciting experience to a poor experience. Granted I didn't have to get a refund or be offered one. But it was offered so I took it.

#

keep in mind it probably took me more than a year to grind and sell some items to get to that point where I got more and more excited about the idea of getting an MoW. Only to be completely destroyed. Instead of seeing 400m silvers leave the game for good it was a that's the way it works kind of deal and here is your 400m back. šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø

formal tulip
#

for that specific instance at least the group penalty is going away (any day now.. right? right?)

sweet vapor
#

this is a very top-end problem but it's understandable and I hope they take your feedback into account - also I have no idea what an MoW is

elfin latch
#

I see the hill we're going to die on today is we tested in the pits, so I'll just suggest people test other zones.

iron rune
honest hull
iron rune
elfin latch
#

an old old wooden boat

honest hull
timber nova
#

yeah soft cap group penalty is going away but it took years of a lot of people complaining

iron rune
formal tulip
#

ultimately, a lot of people that hit the soft cap probably never notice, there's just something that sends it into overdrive in groups

timber nova
#

yeah, soft cap solo isn't an issue at all

#

for me atleast

elfin latch
#

yea I dont really have any problems with the numbers for loot cap, the group thing was butts, but once thats fixed, I don't really care that much.

timber nova
#

jumping into group. very bad

iron rune
#

jokes on me i dont have any friends to group with

elfin latch
#

I just didnt like the if I wanted to loot hunt for a month, I was then ruining my friends loot if we hunted together later.

iron rune
#

thats one way to circumvent the nerf eerrr mechanic i guess

formal tulip
#

well, and hard core farmers can just fragment for the last 2 weeks. it's not a hard thing to get around if your only goal is silvers

timber nova
#

my specific problem in my case is that experience doesn't really give me great returns. Silvers on the other hand allow me to buy blood scrip or books to then upgrade my gear. I don't do cash for anything other then my subscription

#

I guess that's my end game

iron rune
elfin latch
#

hour in sanctum 644,694

atomic raven
#

nerf the sanctum, too much loot for that tier What I want to do next is do the same 45 min in HW but apply a loot boost and see the difference

buoyant sparrow
strange bloom
#

you certainly can

#

it is diminished

dense ferry
#

It should be in the same scale as exp! More than 10 levels you get nothing!

strange bloom
#

I do see the value in things like getting skins for someone

buoyant sparrow
#

Skins != loot?

strange bloom
#

they are and are impacted by the loot cap

#

I think there are also some other slightly less common uses- like if you get stuck in Zul with no money. KF as well if you are too low level for Atoll

#

My point wasn't that overleveled hunting should be looked at, it's more to illustrate how much scrutiny I give to the average silvers generated when they are so easy to come by, and how easy it is to hit the soft cap with minimal effort. Also to continue to drive the point that I think the focus should be less on incoming and more on outgoing.

sweet vapor
#

minimal effort is being used relatively here - for most players, that would be a lot of effort, especially without ;bigshot etc.

#

it's always difficult for min/max-ing players who play a lot to realize how far above the interquartile range they are

timber nova
#

most of those players are eventually going to have the same problem one day though. Why strive to be better?

sweet vapor
#

that's very defeatist - they can strive to get closer to the loot cap - most won't - they can strive to earn silvers in other ways.

I bring in over 100m/month and am not affected actually benefitted by the loot cap. Just saying farming silvers for hours on end is not the only way to play the game and strive for better. EDIT: and here it's crucial for all professions to have a service they can sell in the near future, imo

I mean you could say the same thing about experience too. Why strive to cap when you're only going to hit diminishing returns? Why do anything unless you can achieve linear results the whole way? May as well just stop trying to do anything, right?

timber nova
#

well that's my problem at the moment, I have about 60m experience and the best way to get upgrades is through silvers. We all have reasons to play the game and improve our characters. Mine shouldn't be any less than any others and vice versa

#

well I shouldn't say that's the best way to get upgrades because the best way is to just use cash. which I don't use

dense ferry
#

Clearly you donā€™t have enough clerics.

timber nova
#

probably the best most efficient way for making coins without a doubt

#

with a lot less effort

sweet vapor
#

and doesn't break the economy because it's 0-sum

woven elm
#

really you should be making some forward looking investments in bards right now

elfin latch
#

we need NPCs that do player services for silvers to help remove silvers from the game.

junior pier
#

We already have them, as long as the service in question is grit.

granite hamlet
#

if playing 1 character is your game, and you feel silver acquisition is your optimal advancement path, loot cap probably feels pretty targeted -- best bet is to now grind alts on basic subs chasing service gains and funnel those silvers back to your main

vivid locust
#

I think those of you who believe cap is not difficult to hit, really don't take into account the rest of the player base

clever lava
#

The "rest of the playerbase" also may want something for nothing.

vivid locust
#

I really doubt it. I don't think most of the player base grouses about silver one way or another

#

discord participants are a bubble. Discord participants in anything mechanics is a bubble. Discord participants in mechanics and ALSO discussing loot cap are the bubble of the bubble

woven elm
clever lava
#

The people who play a lot want value to their play time, the people who play for 2 hours, appear to want to make the same amount as the people who play a lot.

woven elm
#

to put that another way, the design of the game in many areas is intended pretty directly to reduce the gap between players who play a whole lot and players who play less

iron rune
vivid locust
#

bubble bobble?

#

šŸ˜‰

iron rune
#

weeble wobble?

buoyant sparrow
vivid locust
#

Going to try and do a string of 30 min HW hunts for pure loot. 7:30-8am this whole week. I'll report back daily earnings

granite hamlet
vivid locust
#

[bank: New balance for the day: 194908

#

30 mins. Fjalllalalalalhart

#

That was 7 boxes. I took in like 12 during that time, but only 7 got opened by the pool. plus skins and other misc stuff.

#

Fjal is notably a better silver spot than pit. The spawns are way faster and more dense and per foe kill times are way faster. No angars or disir to slow you down

elfin latch
vivid locust
#

Maybe. You might be right. If I dedicated an hour every day to JUST loot hunting HW, I see how you can get there

#

but like you also said, I don't know who has the will/time to do it

elfin latch
#

wanting to may not be the correct word here, they could WANT to but dont want to or cant put the time or effort in.

granite hamlet
elfin latch
#

also just to state again I think the soft and hard cap numbers are fine.

#

I'd also like to see some numbers from you that arent the pits. too if you ever get around to that.

granite hamlet
#

He just posted the return on 30min in Fvillage!

elfin latch
#

oh i missed that was the village, thanks for the point out.

vivid locust
# granite hamlet This is better silver/hour, right?

Yeah, the pits are just too slow for a warrior to really max silver generation. My guy is like volnboi to the max, two s6 weapons, flares everywhere, animal t4 disruption and even a 7x a day spirit shroud major ewave and disir STILL are like a 20-30 second kill.

#

angars are either fast or forever. depends on fade

#

Hard to say what loot pressure is doing in Fjall

#

Its late in the month, Meb was running around the area with me.

granite hamlet
#

Those arenā€™t comparing my results to your results, though. Those are your results!

vivid locust
#

Oh yes, I agree. the Pit was higher.

#

silver/minute wise

#

But pit is also far more dangerous and slow. Like if I had a partner, I bet fjal would be better overall

#

Pit is winning on a per critter basis almost certainly because lots of folks don't want to get spear shanked on a disir spear. I'll try a 30 min run in pit in about an hour and do a comparison

#

This is the full total now after the boxes were opened from 30 min Fjal - [bank: New balance for the day: 247761]

elfin latch
#

hour in Atoll 577,461

#

feels light will prob revisit this and sos at the start of the month and hold off till then for any more numbers from other places

formal tulip
#

I need to start hunting other places. OSA is le crap

elfin latch
#

OSA isnt bad if your MAing or group hunting

formal tulip
#

the loot's still nothing compared to those numbers though. It's GREAT for Xp, but the loot is not so hot

elfin latch
#

its been like two months since I did any real OSAing but in a team of 7, we did 12m in 3 days

#

but we're talking like 4-5 hours blocks of play time per day too

granite hamlet
#

OSA fun factor/experience > loot gen !

#

Just need ascended krolvin pirates and weā€™re all set

elfin latch
#

I'll see if I can't bang out a world tour of capped zone for an hour at the start of feb if nothing else for my curiosity

timber nova
#

is the experience really there for OSA though? you are probably better off just doing bandit bounties

elfin latch
#

its middle of the road imo.

#

you're always better off doing bandits thats a loaded question.

formal tulip
#

locksmith and I have compared his notes, OSA is only a tiny bit behind bounties, and it's the hardest core of bounty farming

vivid locust
#

Atoll loot is surprisingly good for a place thats pretty busy.

#

I find that the value on a per box basis is sort of high average, but there are lots of critters and lots of boxes

timber nova
vivid locust
#

The inner temple also lacks alot of stupid wave/brawler/assassin shenanigans

timber nova
#

the only issue I have had with Atoll is that stupid wave

#

everything else was easy mode in there

elfin latch
#

I was running between the two zones in atoll, the outter one seemed to do better for silvers

#

if for nothing else skins

formal tulip
strange bloom
#

probably because more people hunt temple due to the nonsense from brawlers and assassins

vivid locust
# 
You spot quill amidst the valravn's feathers.  This one is impossibly darker than the surrounding feathers, seeming to drink the light around it.
You search the black valravn.``` Don't know how to account for the value of the rare drops
iron rune
#

ive got one of those but no idea what to do with it

elfin latch
vivid locust
formal tulip
#

so I'm doing 9 with OSA, and it's just the current AVG on my uberbar, but my highest is 3828, second is 3749. Lowest is 2903

elfin latch
#

you stacking bird notes, or using bounty boosts to flip into culls?

formal tulip
#

neither. I do absolutely no tricks to try and make my bounties go faster, and don't reject any bounty

#

it's also 9 people on a single mast ship

elfin latch
#

šŸ¤” I'll have to add this to my list to go check out.

formal tulip
#

oh.. der, likely much of that is under lumnis though unless uber factors that out

elfin latch
#

oh okay

#

my numbers are not under lumnis

vivid locust
# 
[SMR result: 289 (Open d100: 126, Bonus: 113)]
Your size slightly hinders your attack!
With a vicious double-strike you slash at a shining winged disir's right leg!
   ... 77 points of damage!
   A shining winged disir falls to the ground grasping her mangled right leg!
Quick, powerful slash to the winged disir's left knee!

 ** Necrotic energy from your eahnor cresset sword overflows into you! **

   You feel healed!

 ** Necrotic energy from your nacreous longsword overflows into you! **

   You feel energized!

 ** Tendrils of sea green mist swirl around you, materializing into a lithe spectral nereid.  She draws back her arm, forming a crackling spear of azure light and hurls it at a shining winged disir with a vengeful cry! **
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Heavy spark to chest.  Bet that hurts.
Roundtime: 3 sec.```
Gotta love hamstring
formal tulip
#

yeah, I'll bother to track them when it expires and see

#

at any rate, it's also just simple

elfin latch
#

I'd be jazzed to have you prove me wrong honestly

#

OSA is so much more fun than bandits

formal tulip
#

at any rate, it's also just good for when I'm doing stuff in the background while working because it's easy to monitor while on conference calls etc.

elfin latch
#

you don't have to sell me on OSA. It's great.

iron rune
# vivid locust ```You lunge forward and try to hamstring a shining winged disir with your eahno...

You take a menacing step toward a tattooed gigas berserker, sweeping your xazkruvrixis spikestar out low to your side in your advance.
[SMR result: 202 (Open d100: 25, Bonus: 100)]
With deliberate brutality, you bring your spikestar around to pummel a tattooed gigas berserker!
AS: +836 vs DS: +331 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +43 = +580
... and hit for 147 points of damage!
Strike to wrist severs left hand!
The guiding force leaves you.
You feel the unnatural surge of necrotic power wane away.

Your xazkruvrixis spikestar emits an ominous black-green glow!
The life drains visibly away from the gigas berserker, as she collapses before you, dead!
A tattooed gigas berserker's fists tense with impotent rage as she surrenders to death.
With a final snap of your wrist, you sweep your spikestar back to the ready, your assault complete.

This is my highlight so far today, though i wish i could get hamstring or something comparable. Hamstring i think it one of the best cmans across the board

vivid locust
#

[bank: New balance for the day: 179,169] This was about 25 mins of Pit hunting. Stll 3 boxes to be opened. Plus a rare valravn quill.

#

significantly slower ttks than Fjal

orchid cliff
#

A full day of hunting the eastern side is ~1m silvers

#

If hunting normally, rest to clear, hunt to fried

#

No bounty

#

That's ~9-10 hours

granite hamlet
#

How much time spent hunting is that?

clever lava
buoyant sparrow
zealous ether
#

On a more productive note. I really appreciate the tracking your doing @vivid locust Gives me food for thought.

buoyant sparrow
sturdy terrace
#

Wait you guys don't have your 401(k) in gemstone silvers too??

atomic raven
#

you laugh, but my GS silver portfolio is beating the market by like 5x YoY! Silvers to the moon baby

granite hamlet
clever lava
buoyant sparrow
granite hamlet
#

Thatā€™s really the crux of the issue. Experience is relevant but not really the point of this thread

#

An argument was made much earlier that low experience characters have higher earning potential, even

zealous ether
granite hamlet
#

Do you have specifics on that?

#

Many people have been surprised, in this thread, about their actual silver intake

zealous ether
#

three characters in the 50s, I hunt them until their Lumnis is done and in the case of the wizard and warrior until their resource gets capped as well.

#

I'm kinda gobsmacked at the amount of silver I'm seeing these days.

junior pier
#

In the 60s and 70s, in fairly rich hunting grounds, I can get 100k per hour easily, 150k+ if I crank hard, have a mule to offload, etc.

woven elm
#

Iā€™ve done about a million in loot in about two weeks in the vineyard. That doesnā€™t include the 10m scroll I found. This is minimal level hunting of like two or three bounties a day, no intentional loot hunting

junior pier
#

The vineyard is one of the places I'm referencing.

zealous ether
#

10m scroll, Tikba?

junior pier
#

So while there is good silver to be had well below cap, the ascension ground numbers are well, well higher.

random orchid
#

It's so hot right now

junior pier
#

(All of which is fine, just data)

zealous ether
#

Ah, forgot about those, thanks Tysong.

woven elm
#

Yes, I found a mental scroll that auctioned for 10m. Probably that scroll generating with good spells and high value was partly related to the quality of the area, but thatā€™s still obviously windfall profit.

#

Nor did it count against loot cap haha

zealous ether
#

It's good data for me though Alsemer. Its nice to learn what some levels of hunting are earning. Gives me insight really on what I should plan on and what I should just totally not even bother.

#

I had no clue honestly as to what folks were bringing in at various levels. I was just going by Wyroms statements about silver brought in. This gives me a lot more of a clue though. lol

junior pier
#

On Plane 5, for example, which is pretty heavily hunted but provides a fair number of boxes, I can maybe get to 100k? Probably more like 75k. I should do the controlled experiment.

granite hamlet
#

So far, several people have posted specifics in the vein of:
Class, level, specific hunting zone, x time metric, specific silver value
Generally, the values returned have been higher than their estimates

random orchid
junior pier
#

I track my selling, so my extrapolation is from exp hunting to loot hunting the same spot. And agreed that getting real numbers would be more valuable than my anecdotes

zealous ether
#

I will say this though, it reinforces my thoughts and mind set about just going secondary market when I need something. Which is a bit frustrating but it is what it is.

clever lava
#

Bloodscrip is a good way to to upgrade

timber nova
#

For the longest time I was working off of forest green brig towards 2x to 3x cap. I remember selling a ton of stuff to even get that type of armor at the time. I think it was like 15m-20m at the time. Now a days it seems like HCP armor like that is pretty cheap or there is a lot more of it going around. So there are things out there at reasonable prices that were high end 10 years ago and still are pretty effective today

#

a lot of people can get pretty lucky at any level with a nice enhancive to sell. There is a lot of methods to improve gear or score a good win

#

I didn't really get my first nice weapon until I bought an off the shelf sprite weapon. It took me 3-4 years to finally fully unlock it. Getting player services on it has taken me years as well. Nothing happens over night in GS, it's just the game it is.

formal tulip
#

heck, I just celebrated putting my first S6 onto my ethereal weapon this morning

elfin latch
formal tulip
#

so yeah, for most people, "an upgrade" is one level of enchant or one player service etc.

random orchid
elfin latch
#

putting together an enhansive set even not an amazing one is a really big power spike most people dont do I'd be and it can be pretty cheap if you watch player shops around DR

formal tulip
#

I enchanted it up to +33, otherwise it's plasma flaring (I got it at a simucon auction a long while back starting at +25 with the flares back when flaring ethereal was not an option normally)

#

I was told to sanctify before more enchant, then take it to +50 for the ensorc

#

(Loot cap shall be general this morning while we all wait for announcements on the group penalty changes)

woven elm
#

loot cap's been general every morning since they took slow time off

#

or rather it's been mechanics

random orchid
formal tulip
#

I'm working my way up to heading into confluence soon so we shall see

#

eventually I plan to PP Enhancive it.. which will be a fun 5 days of standing around like a schmuck with it out

#

followed by an assist so Retser can go code them to work that way

vivid locust
#

my motivation for these loot tests are 100% because I went through decades of having no idea what 'good loot' looks like

timber nova
#

no offense but all it takes is a little extra time playing the actual game for an hour or so a day. Instead of fry, go back to node and rest, fry, go back to node and rest. If the game is only suppose to be played that way then the caps are fine. But if people actually play the game they aren't.

buoyant sparrow
granite hamlet
#

Does that mean an hour of hunting where you also happened to have a bounty or something else?

#

Like, my pattern of bounty hunting is hunt saturated and only rest if a bounty is complete but Iā€™m still saturated OR if Iā€™m waiting on the bounty timer

elfin latch
#

Imma see what my mage does in an hour of hunt to full rest to clear and back out again in nelemar no bounties

#

It's gonna be tragic.

buoyant sparrow
granite hamlet
#

Iā€™d be interested to see your specific silver intake from an hour of ā€œnonstopā€ hunting (stopping to heal/drop off loot/etc) if youā€™re up to it

#

Or not even an hour, if thatā€™s too long

buoyant sparrow
#

Yep should be able to knock that out during my next conference call

uneven tendon
#

If nothing else, this thread has gotten me to start visiting the Hinterwilds for half an hour a day. ~1000-1500 exp lost (as compared to running bandits forever) doesn't matter much to me considering the ATP costs I'm paying for things by now anyway. šŸ¤£

elfin latch
uneven tendon
#

Well, right, more like the ATP costs I'm not even paying because they just slowly hoard.

atomic raven
#

Oh no, we have opened up our sacred HinterWilds to "Loot Tourists"...... Feel free to silver farm but the locals at the tavern will secretly judge you.

uneven tendon
#

It's shifted my thinking for sure. Like... if I always sell my Duskruin orbs because I'd rather have the silver than the exp, then why not extend the same logic and start hitting at least the soft cap every month? šŸ˜›

orchid cliff
#

I'm in the opposite boat, at this point silver is near worthless to me so exp is king lol

turbid forge
iron rune
elfin latch
#

A cool 82k in an hour of non bounty hunting clear to fried and then resting to clear to hunt again.

#

Nelemar 3rd floor

#

A casual 13 hour a day schedule to loot cap in 30 days.

orchid cliff
#

Also, I don't believe bounty reward go towards loot cap

cerulean bear
#

it's confirmed. time to up nelemar's loot!

elfin latch
orchid cliff
#

Tested scatter yet? Used to be real good if you had a tent and a picker

elfin latch
#

I just wanted an as casual play number as i could get, 12m mage, 7x 10 cer armor, 7x trition bane (as) runestaff. Selfspelled

#

No enhancives or anything

cerulean bear
#

triton bane? lol]

#

that's oddly specific

elfin latch
#

It was free, they only hunt nelemar.

#

Seems reasonable to me.

dense ferry
#

30min in Atoll Entire zone, killing everything. (whoops, meant to do inside and outside seperate) 220,186 silver
The best class. Ranger. With a wicked bow. 202 trading By ;bank tracking, I'm at 16,199,419 on the month. But that numbers pretty skewed if bounty silvers don't count and I spend on herbs and stuff. No large purchases though. So I may be at soft cap or not. šŸ¤·

#

Locksmith Pool 19,470 - Gemshop 152,198 - Pawnshop 8,228 - Consignment 3,563 - Furrier 22,560 - Total 206,019 minus 2 of the boxes. Gems doing work.

iron rune
wise charm
#

You're right Whayle, it should just be presumed that "ranger" means best class. It's inherent in the word itself, and is therefore redundant.

vivid locust
#

Trying to think of a way to test Moonsedge

#

I don't know who in the world could run an hour straight there. But I guess its doable with the library/tent

strange bloom
#

normalize by kill

vivid locust
#

Sounds like a lot of work

#

heh. I'm more of the lazy data type

#

But I could do it in 15 min chunks reliably

#

15, drop loot, come back, etc. If encumberance becomes an issue, I could just toss it in my tent on the nimbus bridge

strange bloom
#

start a log, count how many times you searched a kill in HW or whatever you're comparing to. Then try to do the same thing in ME but spread out. If you did 100 kills in HW, break up ME in 10 kill segments

vivid locust
#

doable

timber nova
#

does dread dissipate in the tent in there?

vivid locust
#

Yup

#

toss up a tent on the bridge (no enemies onit) and drop the dread quick time

orchid cliff
#

One of the huge benefits of a tent

vivid locust
#

people be killing me

# 
The entrance stands, framed by a pair of colossal red stone pillars, at the apogee of a crescent-shaped walk that curves along the interior of the fane.  Towering gigas statues, male and female, stand with battleaxes in hand in alcoves along either wall.  Their faces are unwelcoming and their postures unmistakably aggressive.  Ruddy stone steps breach the wall to the north, heading precipitously downward into stygian shadow.  You also see a stygian valravn quill.
Obvious exits: east, west```
#

Rare drops are not picked up by loot room

#

Someone left this behind at who knows when

sturdy terrace
#

Yeah Iā€™ve had to run back for a few after loot room via eloot leaves them.

vivid locust
#

if you have any disir feathers you want to sell trade for quills, let me know

elfin latch
#

eloot shouldnt leave them, not sure if you need to update something

vivid locust
#

I've seen elooters scripting and leave them. Not that they were afk, but you could tell it was on a script

#

They don't spawn in the normal loot messaging of a critter. its a unique line

strange bloom
#

sure it was eloot?

vivid locust
#

I am not. I just assume its the go to for script looting

#

I can provide the messaging for the drop if it helps

strange bloom
#

it's already accounted for

#

<name>^((?:.*)\b(?:adamantine|alexandrite|alum|bronze|carmiln|coraesine|deringo|drakar|drake|eahnor|eonake|faenor|faewood|feras|fireleaf|glaes|glowbark|golvern|gornar|hoarbeam|illthorn|imflass|invar|ipantor|ironwood|kakore|kelyn|krodera|kroderine|laje|lor|mein|mesille|mithglin|mithril|modwir|mossbark|obsidian|ora|orase|razern|rhimar|rolaren|rowan|ruic|sephwir|urglaes|urnon|vaalin|vaalorn|veil iron|veniom|villswood|vultite|widowwood|witchwood|wyrwood|yew|zelnorn|zorchar)\b(?:.*)|stygian valravn quill|nacreous disir feather)$</name>

vivid locust
#

pure ignorance here. Does the script look in the room or look for that item to spawn in the treasure drop messaging?

#

because the noun never shows up in the critter loot drop messages

sturdy terrace
#

Iā€™ll update and try it again but I had eloot leave a quill within the last couple weeks. If I see it happen again after updating Iā€™ll flag in #scripting

strange bloom
#

Unless there's a delta on test when it was added

#

it's uncommon Nidal

sturdy terrace
#

Ahh okay. If uncommon also includes stuff that Iā€™d consider garbo maybe I unchecked it lol. Will check. Thanks

strange bloom
#

and make sure gameobj is up to date

#

but if it's still missing due to drop messaging, post in scripting and we'll get it fixed

vivid locust
#

this is the drop message

#

You spot quill amidst the valravn's feathers. This one is impossibly darker than the surrounding feathers, seeming to drink the light around it.

#

disir have something similar I can find it if I search my old posts

#

and in fact...I'm gonna typo that

strange bloom
#

not being picked up via loot room should be bugged

vivid locust
#

cause thats how it is

timber nova
#

yeah I thought that was the main issue, it doesn't pick up from loot room

#

even though loot room is a lot more efficient, I still stick to regular sloot because of cursed gems and stuff in the scatter

#

I wish loot room allowed you to custom exclude stuff

strange bloom
#

eloot handles cursed gems

timber nova
#

oh. I thought eloot just did a loot room for the most part

formal tulip
#

I thought eloot still checks for missed items after the loot room as well

strange bloom
#

it does when everything on the ground meets your criteria. Otherwise it picks up one by one

timber nova
#

ah ok, I haven't given it a try again in a very long time

#

I only use it to loot boxes from the box pool so I can be ultra cheap and sell the empty boxes. šŸ¤£

granite hamlet
#

hah

[Estate, Greatroom - 29623]
You also see a stygian valravn quill and a brass and oak bin.
Obvious exits: east, west, out
>loot room
There is no loot.
>loot quill
The valravn quill does not appear to be worth your while.```
formal tulip
#

Yeah, that's bugworthy

vivid locust
#

Just an update on my HW loot so far this morning 20 mins. NO boxes opened yet. This is coins, gems and skins [bank: New balance for the day: 92916]

formal tulip
#

Realistically these short tests are only so reliable. Gs loot can be dry or heavy on the scale of days

vivid locust
#

Sure. Thats why I'm gonna total up the week

#

Basically doing 7:30-8am every morning, give or take. 5 days. Total is up when done

formal tulip
#

Still promising at 20 minutes

granite hamlet
#

pits?

vivid locust
#

yeah

#

pits only

#

occassional wandering undan and such

timber nova
#

loot seems to always be really good every where I've hunted in the early morning hours

#

I only hunt, scatter, HW, (sometimes ME now) though. I have no substantial data for SoS, Warcamps, Confluence other then one off hunting). I haven't hunted any of the other places at all

#

I maybe want to the temple once or twice with Jeril and Rolfard over the last 10+ years.

granite hamlet
#

too scary for you!?

timber nova
#

just didn't like it there and like being in the Icemule area

vivid locust
#

Icemule area is pretty choice for capped hunting. best in game by a lot

timber nova
#

oh and I use to do OSA, but loot is terrible compared to whatever else I've hunted

vivid locust
#

access to most of the game world, three capped options and now also an osa dock

#

osa is loot is very bad, its true. Especially for the buy in. I'll never make back my ship monies ever, just like in real life

timber nova
#

when I did do OSA I specifically waited for Krovy boats

strange bloom
#

things like OSA and warcamps really should have the loot floor examined

vivid locust
#

I get that osa is a silver sink.

timber nova
#

for the short period I had that MoW, I would stack notes in each of the nest to try to efficiently knock out those

vivid locust
#

But I would like to see some more gameplay value out the bigger boats. Like maybe being able to speed up spawn rates so I'm not on a frigate fighting a man o war for 45 mins

timber nova
#

OSA needs different loot pressure for different areas of the sea to get you to go out into other areas

#

further you go out to no where the better the loot should be

vivid locust
#

a system where loot got better further from port would be great

#

yeah

granite hamlet
vivid locust
#

like the bottom of the southern wastes should be loaded

#

no port for at least 20 mins in either direction

timber nova
#

I would assume that each sea is logically zoned in some way to do this

vivid locust
#

its not afaik.