calamity-update-talk

[blazing field]

the one that triangle wants ot redesign into a coconut crab

[deft lily]

sorry buddy

[blazing field]

so thats naother one

theres so many fucking crabs

[main estuary]

the greatest craberation

[unique warren]

OH MY GOD THIS GETS RID OF LIKE 8 DEBUFFS and most are niche asf and two are mildly annoying at best

[open garden]

if you told me ravager was a crab i’d believe you

[cunning sequoia]

make crabulon a coconut crab but his shell is a mushroom

[pseudo vector]

but yeah these will be able to be gotten without cheat sheet in a few days when we launch the brainstorm hotfix, i can't remember where you'll be able to get it specifically but these will be obtainable

[blazing field]

"worm" this "wormlamity" that

[cunning sequoia]

oh wait...

[blazing field]

no bro this is the crab mod

[cunning sequoia]

https://tenor.com/view/paras-parasect-anime-mushroom-crab-gif-13475986526546233762

[blazing field]

this is crablamity

[unique warren]

Anyways yeah finding the tainted orderbringer bug was really funny

[hearty horizon]

All hail Crabulon, the crabs will come

[unique warren]

Shit is lowkey funny

[deft lily]

clamity ❌
crablamity ✅

[main estuary]

supreme crabulon
fought after auric crabulon

[dense geyser]

only bad thing in this update is the removal of wings special effects

[hearty horizon]

Don't forget Devourer of Crabs

[bitter fable]

I don't get the gripe about the cosmolight change tho because it was objectively super busted being able to get it in the onset of hardmode

[blazing field]

im pretty sure calamity actually has

[main estuary]

honestly those were busted
especially angel wings

[blazing field]

more crabs than worms

[deft lily]

true?

[blazing field]

like ok

counting all the stuff that's planned

[unique warren]

Yeah wing stats was ass sorry ❤️

[main estuary]

that's like 10 defense and extra regen at the beginning of hardmode

[deft lily]

some sort of.. brainstorm....

[hearty horizon]

Tbf I do understand that one, it was super useful for the Mechs because it made it so if you had nothing else to do, you didn't have to just sit and wait for a couple minutes in a bed, but I think the ability to flat out stop time with it makes up for that

[main estuary]

err wrong!
crabstorm

[blazing field]

worms:

• burrower
• bobbit worm
• astrum deus
• storm weaver
• devourer of gods
• sepulcher
• thanatos

crabs:

• slab crab
• clad crab
• flak crab
• baby flak crab
• anthozoan crab
• hermititan
• scavenger
• crabyceps
• crabucaneer
• crabulon

[rough vine]

is only boc having issues in multiplayer or bosses in general?

[hearty horizon]

Damn, no love for Desert or Aquatic Scourge

[blazing field]

they're getting de-wormed

atleast in terms of design, which is what im judging here since "crab" isnt really an ai type

[hard hearth]

they're WHAT

[main estuary]

the de-wormification

[cunning sequoia]

old man ein woke up

[hard hearth]

blasphemy

[hearty horizon]

Fucking PARDON?

[deft lily]

tofu has competition 😨

[bitter fable]

That's fair but I think early hardmode slowdown probably good overall

[blazing field]

theyre gonna be lizards

[hard hearth]

you will be tried at the cross

[blazing field]

and theyre cool

[hard hearth]

and executed

[blazing field]

i like my lizards

[hard hearth]

..................

[cunning sequoia]

where's my turtle boss

[pseudo vector]

lizards are cool, worms are boring

[hearty horizon]

Like genuinely?

[blazing field]

wheres my desert scourge gif

[pseudo vector]

(most of the time)

[cunning sequoia]

calamity sucks givem e turtle boss

[misty wren]

perf worm 1 perf worm 2 perf worm 3

[blazing field]

yeah

we've seen bits of the resprite

[main estuary]

who wins
crusty ahh lizard
or
acidic ahh salamander

[hearty horizon]

You're not bullshitting me?

[blazing field]

Not counting them because this is taking into account the redesigns/future plans

which probably wont have worms

for perfs

i imagine

[blazing field]

yeah

its real

[misty wren]

what is a long neck but a worm attached at the base..

[blazing field]

desert scourge, much like the treatment boc or dog got this update, is entirely being remade as a fight in SSO

alongside that its getting a redesign, which makes it into a more lizard-like creature

[hearty horizon]

Why would they not, they're meant to be the Crimson's version of EoW, which is a worm

[blazing field]

They're not gonna be that anymore

[pseudo vector]

we can get much more merit out of making them (AS and DS) less wormish than keeping them worm

[blazing field]

they're gonna be post moon lord bosses

[pseudo vector]

they're gonna be completely different when we redesign them

[hearty horizon]

...again, fucking PARDON????

[blazing field]

Most calamity bosses are getting entirely remade

they kinda uh

[pseudo vector]

[misty wren]

because that line of thinking when designing them is lame as shit

[unique warren]

Does he know

[pseudo vector]

thems the plans broski

[hearty horizon]

My bois are getting bumped to post goddamn Moon Lord?

[blazing field]

calamity's bosses have been stuck in 2012 for the entire mod's duration basically

[cunning sequoia]

and folly is getting demoted to pre-hardmode

[blazing field]

yeah

[pseudo vector]

no longer will calamity be stuck in 2018

[blazing field]

evil2 is swapping with dragonfolly

[hearty horizon]

I am so confused

[cunning sequoia]

man

[blazing field]

pins -> future content doc

[hearty horizon]

What is happening right now

[blazing field]

it'll help ya

[cunning sequoia]

i do hope folly focuses more on the "swarm" part of "murderswarm"

[bitter fable]

folly prehm makes way more sense to me off rip

[cunning sequoia]

i like the idea of a swarm boss

like clown car deus but. less bad

[unique warren]

There's also potentially calclone and slime gods tier swap but I don't like that one much

[blazing field]

the mod is being remade now that fabsol is gone and devs can actually do what they've wanted to do for years, basically

[hearty horizon]

This is goofing with my brain

[urban cloak]

Just open the pinned messages and read the future content doc

Everything is explained there

[pseudo vector]

yuh

[unique warren]

Like c'mon, calclone is mechs level at worst

[sly delta]

five. hundred. birds

[deft lily]

we can finally be bees

[blazing field]

this is good news, mark.

[deft lily]

youll be a bee for 30 years

[unique warren]

I hope the devs make a steak

[blazing field]

sa,e

same

@urban cloak get to it

[cunning sequoia]

A STEAK?!

[deft lily]

so I can blow it up

[hoary merlin]

Idk is it me or the new melee rework make my run feel so terrible

[deft lily]

(Idk)

[blazing field]

"new melee rework" is a pretty vague statement

[unique warren]

What doth thy mean

[hearty horizon]

Now that I think about it, it does make sense tbh, their point in progression, while I love fighting them, is a little weird being directly after evil 1 bosses, and putting them post-ML gives the world evil literally... any reason to engage with them post-ML instead of just having to repeatedly tell them to screw off of your jungle and/or purify the entire thing

[blazing field]

Evil2's current placement is

basically undisputedly the single worst boss progression placement in the entire mod

[deft lily]

[blazing field]

both from a gameplay and lore standpoint

[unique warren]

Yeah it's not like Souls where all broadswords got reworked swings this is kind of a weapon by weapon rework

[cunning sequoia]

and folly is just, the best boss to swap around in post-ml

[hoary merlin]

I'm stuck on the slime god rn, I never face this problem before, but now it seem like there is no good weapon option for it

[cunning sequoia]

the others dont make as much sense

folly can be easily changed to fit pre-hardmode

also the whole aerilate thing

[deft lily]

dragonfolly when I throw him into a boiling pit of lava

[blazing field]

yeah all the other post ml bosses are like biiiig deals in lore so if they were moved down it'd entail some major changes for that

while dragonfolly is

alot more easy to work with

for a tier swap

[hearty horizon]

I mean, Astrum Deus randomly being post-Cultist but pre-ML is definitely up there tbf, but I do get it

[blazing field]

cuz it already is kinda unfitting for post l as is

[unique warren]

Is Old Duke?

[blazing field]

Yeah

[hearty horizon]

Like that's a weird ass place to put a boss

[blazing field]

He is lacking in the lord department ingame unfortunately but there's some pretty huge unreleased lore for him

[tiny creek]

did they revert the way to get biome chest keys (i play classic)

[blazing field]

Yeah it is

[unique warren]

I see...

[still cobalt]

“Woah i just beat a corruption boss i wonder what biome i get to go to next”

[hoary merlin]

actually it post-pillar

[blazing field]

Deus might be moved to post moon lord aswell

[hearty horizon]

That's not any better, that's honestly worse

[blazing field]

Early post ml, so it'd be a tier consisting of

Deus, Evil2 and Guardians

[cunning sequoia]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1405614811500253306/1454181868285988980/waddling.gif

[still cobalt]

Deus should prob be post ml but its not as bad as evil 1 into evil 2

[tidal wigeon]

What's up with the warding modifier being changed up?

[blazing field]

yeah deus is liked

2nd worst

atleast in terms of gameplay

I'd say generally

[tidal wigeon]

Or am I schizo

[blazing field]

evil2 takes the 1st spot easily

[misty wren]

deus tiershift is also not that massive of a deal tbh its current placement sucks but it being moved up doesnt matter that much

[cunning sequoia]

warding deserved a nerf

[hoary merlin]

it basically pre-moonlord gear, that is why it a good option to fight it before moonloon

[blazing field]

slime god takes the 2nd spot in terms of lore, deus takes the 2nd spot in terms of gameplay

[cunning sequoia]

it doesnt make it useless now but its not as polarizing to the other reforges

especially with the two new ones

[hoary merlin]

why tf did I said moonloon

[blazing field]

It does mean astral infection can actually have relevance in post ml

[tidal wigeon]

I guess I'm just confused on most of all what to do with mage, arcane kinda nutty now

[pseudo vector]

old lord's claymore with bladecrest oathsword

[cunning sequoia]

yeah arcane is actually useful now

[pseudo vector]

they have really good synergy

[hearty horizon]

Yes, but like... "Let's put the boss in the progression spot after an event, but before the boss that event explicitly summons" as opposed to "let's put it right after a boss that summons said event that you don't necessarily HAVE to immediately engage with"

[misty wren]

its not even as polarizing with its own variants, all of them are pretty damn good and the difference in damage between full guarding warding and armored is really small

[hoary merlin]

I always go on bladecrest, but now it kinda...(My aim suck)

[tidal wigeon]

Can anyone rq explain to me like I'm 5 how armor penetration works/what weapon/damage types it applies to

[blazing field]

With him being entirely redesigned to have nothing to do with fishrons anymore he's kind of just a extremely old dragon now

[pseudo vector]

its just a matter of learning how to use it in a more effective way

[blazing field]

And one without an auric soul, because he was basically one of the first ever dragons to be born after they ran out of world soul shards

[misty wren]

5 armor penetration means all your damage gets basically plus 2.5 flat damage on top of everything

[blazing field]

His entire lore surrounds his spite towards the auric dragons and how he basically developed a inferiority complex because of that

And to compensate he uh

[sly delta]

effectively reduces enemy defense by that number when ur attacks hit, adding about half of armor pen as flat dmg to ur attacks

[blazing field]

Became a arrogant bitch who enslaves other dragons baically

[misty wren]

he became racist

[pseudo vector]

old lord's claymore has really good flat damage though

its crazy strong

[blazing field]

Yeah

if yharim is the #1 god hater

[hoary merlin]

I think this is because the pillar is just an event, I mean you can just let one hanging there for a bit

[blazing field]

old duke is the #1 dragon hater (except for himself of course

[unique warren]

Gragh I HATE using balanced weapons they need to SHRED EVERYTHING

[misty wren]

old duke is what yharim thinks gods were like

[blazing field]

dragon who fucking hates every other dragon

[hearty horizon]

But then that's mid-pillars, not post-pillars

[blazing field]

SPECIALLY auric dragons

[tidal wigeon]

Doesn't seem.... that useful?

[blazing field]

in particular

i'm really interested in how yharim will react to old duke in the whisper

[sly delta]

no not really. only useful on low dph but high fire rate weapons

[blazing field]

or just, what his general stance on him is

[cunning sequoia]

old duke is such a good way to combat yharim's point of view

[blazing field]

Because like

old duke is a direct contradiction to his ideology yeah

[hearty horizon]

And mid-pillars as a progression point would be worse than both

[tidal wigeon]

Blade staff 🥀

[amber furnace]

whisper?

[blazing field]

"well he's not auric!!! he's not a real dragon!!"

[unique warren]

Sorry are y'all making Old Duke a dragon

[cunning sequoia]

its an asshole dragon that the player gets to fight themselves

[hoary merlin]

I get your point, guess my struggle on the Infernum slime god is another problem

[blazing field]

Always has been

[cunning sequoia]

rather than just a vague mention in a bestiary entry

[unique warren]

🤔

[blazing field]

It's just that he's gonn be just a dragon now

none of the fishron part

[misty wren]

depends on weapon and progression point, 15 ap can turn something like phoenix flame barrage from horrible unusable dogshit to mediocre (but still usable!)

[blazing field]

not gonna be related to duke fishron or anything anymore

[dense sundial]

Does Fish of Theseus have the head of another dragon stuck in his neck 🥺

[sly delta]

minishark has a decent synergy with armor pen early game as well ig

[blazing field]

The whispers you get from killing bosses

Yharim talking to you

[hoary merlin]

I'm sure it post...because you just need to destroy one or two for you specific class

[amber furnace]

oh lore items

[unique warren]

I've always kinda liked Old Duke's "just some animal who's really strong" vibe but alr

[cunning sequoia]

whispers is a better name for them

[misty wren]

its not

[cunning sequoia]

"lore items" is really vague

[tidal wigeon]

Fair enough

[cunning sequoia]

and implies some sort of objectiveness

[unique warren]

In post-ML only like... him and Primordial Wyrm have that idea

[misty wren]

deus is meant to be fought at the same time as pillars

[dense sundial]

They are The Item That Gives You Lore and there is nothing else like them currently, so

[blazing field]

Primordial wyrm isn't really a fully on animal either

[cunning sequoia]

fair enough but still

[blazing field]

It's litreally Blessed by a God

[cunning sequoia]

whispers is a cool name

[hearty horizon]

That's still the middle of the event tho lol

Semantics aside tho, no matter how you slice it, Deus' position in progression is just weird and unintuitive

[blazing field]

And it's also evidently like

[unique warren]

Yeah, some animal blessed by a god and then kinda just chills out

[blazing field]

pretty damn smart

[hoary merlin]

isn't that is my point

[tidal wigeon]

What's the best accessory prefix for mage now? I feel like arcane makes the most sense to me

[misty wren]

you cant tier it to post pillars because that gives players literally 60 seconds to spawn deus before moon lord shows up and ruins that plan

[blazing field]

it has enough intelligence to actively hold resentment for xeroc and lash out at primordial light

[unique warren]

I would be too if I was that much of an unc tbh

[sly delta]

but armor pen just falls of hard as like a single digit amount of extra damage does absolutely nothing later on

[cunning sequoia]

i think by post-ml its better to have a good explanation for why something is powerful

[blazing field]

^ yeah tbh

[cunning sequoia]

you have like, polterghast which is basically a raging army of the undead in one entity

[hoary merlin]

hey look, someone actually stated a good point then you, it was meant to fight between the pillar

[cunning sequoia]

that makes sense to be powerful

[blazing field]

Strong animals i think are something that is cool to add onto the worldbuilding

[cunning sequoia]

you have extradimensional creatures

[urban cloak]

Terraria already has steak...

[unique warren]

I think having a boss that's just naturally very strong without any gods or anything involved would be badass in post-ML but fair ig

[cunning sequoia]

there's the main characters at the end

[blazing field]

But by post ml i think it makes more sense for most of the bosses to be figures with major relevance to the story or world in some way

[misty wren]

not entirely, its more as you get further into progression fewer weapons are designed that can utilize it

[cunning sequoia]

there's one of the strongest gods and her lackeys

[blazing field]

I mean, those do exist

[cunning sequoia]

and then folly and old duke just kinda exist

and are strong

[unique warren]

I mean, not for long for the former

[twin roost]

New Old Duke visuals are great.
I hate to admit it but, the gameplay alone outdoes both Lucille ones even if Eternity OD has more creative attacks. Base OD just flows better imo.

[cunning sequoia]

well yeah

not long for either of them

[twin roost]

DoG time!!

[sly delta]

and also even with weapons that might get some utility theres not too many sources of armor pen to stack it up either

[unique warren]

[hearty horizon]

Reminding me of pranking my friend by telling him the Rod of Discord was useful in the Abyss and when I asked him what we've learned today, his response was "that you're an asshole"

[unique warren]

Did they even fix Old Duke gameplay this update

[hoary merlin]

I just found out that most people do calamitas before exo-mech

[tidal wigeon]

Me when I'm waiting for my server homies to play so we can clear golem 💀

[unique warren]

mf who?

[blazing field]

alot of people

you can do them in any order so /shrug

[unique warren]

I have found that most do scal last but alr

[hoary merlin]

I couldn't believe it myself at first too

[hearty horizon]

Because Calamitas is basically entirely skill based and Exos are "random bullshit, go"

[misty wren]

armor pen reforges give +3 ap per reforge when in post moon lord :D

[twin roost]

It's basicaly the same just looks better and I think is easier?? Probably not???

[distant raft]

^

[still cobalt]

Same tier and theres plenty of subclasses that are like “i gey nothing from exos”

[tidal wigeon]

I did calamitas before I knew exo mechs existed

[blazing field]

idk if its most but i know theres people who do

ive seen a good few

[twin roost]

Dw I've been skipping grinding as I tend to.

[unique warren]

Okay so still just slightly modified duke fishron with no new and interesting attacks

[still cobalt]

I think the standard tens to be cal last but its more of a case by fase basis

[cunning sequoia]

exos are hold one direction simulator

scal is just. a more climactic final boss

mostly because of how trash exos are

[twin roost]

Hey I didn't say it was outstanding, just my favourite of the 3 OD fights we have.

[sly delta]

is +21 ap even that strong post ml i havent tested

[hearty horizon]

And I find them remarkably unpleasant, I actually haven't beaten them solo simply because I stopped giving a damn

[tidal wigeon]

Actually sounds decent with some Ranger weapons

[hoary merlin]

I tried like 200 attempts to learn how dodge Ares infernum last phase

[sly delta]

fair

[blazing field]

yeah the exo fights seems to be pretty heavily disliked

and devs seem to agree

[twin roost]

I got high expectations for the big bad bisexual worm people have been comparing it to Infernum one.

[blazing field]

they want to rework it eventually

[misty wren]

depends on weapon but it makes phoenix flame barrage at the very least actually fucking usable without extra accessories

[unique warren]

Tbf scal is kinda up and down a lot and I hope they fix that without making scal too different, though it's also the least priority thing ever IMO

[hoary merlin]

I mean his gaming chair is good though

[cunning sequoia]

its more engaging than exos at least

[amber furnace]

I agree

[twin roost]

I don't dislike it but I'm not against a rework, especially if BoC quality is on the table.

[blazing field]

scal is probably amongst hte lowest priority fight reworks atm yeah

[unique warren]

Oh by a long shot

[blazing field]

I think she definitely will get some changes eventually

[unique warren]

I'd be down for a scal rework like, an update or two before Yharim lmfao

[cunning sequoia]

yeah expect reworks like BoC and DoG from now on

[hearty horizon]

SCal is so good and then Exos are just so incredibly obnoxious, I only ever cared enough to beat them when I was with a friend, on my solo run I just got sick of fighting them and decided I wasn't going to

[misty wren]

scal is carried hard by bullet hells and brothers phase but im not a huge fan of how fucking many bullet hells she has

[cunning sequoia]

not the old "reworks" that barely changed the fight

[tidal wigeon]

I want exos to actually not crash my pc

[unique warren]

I wouldn't want a scal rework to change too much tho. I still want it to be overall the boss it currently is, just improved.

[dense sundial]

Scal is rote-memorization-based and still comes with a lot of RNG and timer overlap junk
Exos can be completely ignored by holding one key

[twin roost]

Dude Calamity is back wtf Infernum's gonna be history.

[misty wren]

brothers phase is like 5% hp away from 2 bullet hells it sucks

[sly delta]

draedon's mind getting blown when u demonstrate that u can, in fact, move.

[still cobalt]

Infernum has lowk been history for a while and is just being maintained rn

[unique warren]

Like please don't get rid of the bullet hells (just reduce them to maybe 3 per fight)

[hearty horizon]

I personally don't mind the bullet hells apart from the first one tbh

[rain hedge]

does infernum work with this new calamity update

[misty wren]

first bullet hell is great

[tidal wigeon]

True

[misty wren]

my issues are mostly with 3 and 4 because of how close together they are

[hearty horizon]

Where is the RNG in SCal? She has the exact same attack pattern every fight

[twin roost]

As a Calamity enjoyer Infernum's been my go to for ages.

[misty wren]

bullet hells

[sly delta]

i dont really like bullet hells when the player hitbox size is not symmetric between vertical and horizontal sizes tbh

[tidal wigeon]

Goated take

[twin roost]

It still won't be fully redundant but base Calamity is looking good.

[twin roost]

Truth nuke.

[tidal wigeon]

Especially with 0 "quality of life" mods

[unique warren]

Go, my precision seal

[hearty horizon]

I mean that's fair I suppose, but the only times I've felt I got screwed over by RNG were the first one where the projectiles are super close together for no reason

[twin roost]

What?

[unique warren]

Souls Mod fans stay winning 🙏

[hearty horizon]

Genuinely the first bullet hell/immediately after it, and the brothers, were the two main walls when I was fighting her

[sick bloom]

my favorite part of infernum is that one little cutscene after beating the mech bosses

[cunning sequoia]

mine are the sentinel encounters

[dense sundial]

Bullet hells are heavily RNG, namely 5
Mobiles are notably RNG
Technically the ENTIRE fight relies on damage RNG because when you hit phase transitions changes how all her constantly-running timers overlap, which sometimes causes genuinely unfair patterns

[twin roost]

I tried Souls and didn't like it. This is because I am evil.

[cunning sequoia]

its exactly what i want from cal

[unique warren]

Well at least someone's honest about why they didn't like it

[cunning sequoia]

please please please uninfected aureus hanging around in the astral 🙏

[hearty horizon]

I'm genuinely confused on what you mean with the "constantly running timers"

[unique warren]

I love how both Astral Infection bosses are originally not even from the infection lmfao

[cunning sequoia]

i mean it makes sense

[hearty horizon]

Like what timers are you talking about and how does that cause unfair patterns?

[cunning sequoia]

its an infection

none of the enemies are FROM it

it took over them

[unique warren]

Yeah but we never fight the source of it or whatever

[cunning sequoia]

the source is the meteor that falls

[unique warren]

Well where did the meteor come from

[hearty horizon]

"What, are we gonna fight the meteor?"

Challenge

[cunning sequoia]

its a star that bloated from excess mana

cause deus fucked up and didn't eat it before the infection developed

[misty wren]

a bunch of her attacks are based off time and phase transitions do wacky stuff to those timers

[viscid bay]

why is the dog aint as big as the sneak peak anymore 😭

[unique warren]

Assumedly in this case cause Deus got fucked up too

[cunning sequoia]

yep

[unique warren]

Bro ts is old news

[cunning sequoia]

the sneak peek was never implemented

and now won't be, for several reasons

[viscid bay]

oh ok

[cunning sequoia]

but mostly that the person who designed it left and nobody wants to keep working on it

and there wasnt a fight designed around it being so big

because the person in charge of designing bosses was kicked out

[viscid bay]

aw

[misty wren]

and also even before he was kicked out there wasnt a fight

[cunning sequoia]

oh yeah

[hasty tangle]

no, not aw. yeah

[cunning sequoia]

he didnt even. plan for it at all

[hasty tangle]

the bosses finally have a chance to be good now

[hearty horizon]

Yeah, how would that work? Like that's a MASSIVE worm boss, a kind of boss that's already prone to issues, and then make it that big, how was that gonna work?

[unique warren]

If only true melee had a chance to be good (I'm dying on this hill aren't I)

[hasty tangle]

i do think it would have been possible to make it work but it would probably be more effort than it would be worth

[sick bloom]

for his ultimate attack he fries your gpu

[cunning sequoia]

it was also just, not a redesign

it was basically the same design as the current one but bigger

[unique warren]

To be fair, his current design is still really good

[cunning sequoia]

eh

[misty wren]

good sprite bad design

[cunning sequoia]

its fine

its nothing special

[hearty horizon]

"Now, I can attack your PC directly!"

Windows crash sound effect

[dense sundial]

Fabsol loved basing attack logic on timers rather than making distinct attack states. Think of how Calclone or many of the worms just suddenly snap between attack behavior. In Scal’s case, when in a timer you hit a phase transition can drastically change what she ends up doing afterward, leading to some absurd behavior like her slingshotting into the sunset because she transitions to mobile just frames after a BH ends

[cunning sequoia]

which is bad because DoG is the most iconic modded boss in all of terraria

[unique warren]

Idk its design is def incredibly iconic

[misty wren]

its design is a long gray tube

[unique warren]

You're thinking of the destroyer

[ivory lark]

hi 3 days later

[hearty horizon]

Huh. I never really had issues with that, I guess, or at least not to the point where I noticed it

[cunning sequoia]

yeah

DoG is

destroyer

but purple

[unique warren]

So not grey

[distant raft]

purple instead of red

[ivory lark]

the purple parts of the destroyer are not the metal, which gained color from a 2018 hueshifting trend

[twin roost]

So I have bad news.
I like Infernum DoG better still.

[misty wren]

no im thinking of dog and its design is still a long gray tube it just has a little bit of light blue and purple on the sprite as well

[twin roost]

HOWEVER this one is objectively better in just about every way.

[cunning sequoia]

good for you

[unique warren]

I mean it's a worm, yeah it's gonna be a tube

[distant agate]

rip chlorophyte armour, got nerfed hard

[cunning sequoia]

you're not obligated to like the fight 😁

[dense sundial]

Destroyer’s sprite is clean and makes physical sense and fits what the boss is supposed to be, none of which are true of DoG

[hasty tangle]

to each their own, everyone is entitled to their own opinion

[twin roost]

No no I like the fight.

[hearty horizon]

No, didn't you hear, the worms are gonna be lizards now :D

[cunning sequoia]

point still stands

[hearty horizon]

Lizard worm

[cunning sequoia]

you're allowed to like infernum DoG more

[twin roost]

The new fight is really REALLY good, just personally I prefer Infernum's gameplay.
Amazing job though, whoever worked on the rework did a fantastic job.

[unique warren]

That sure is the design evolution of DoG

[ivory lark]

yeah

[unique warren]

I'd say the first and most recent are very distinct

[dense sundial]

Can you shrink big DoG and put it immediately under 1.4.2

[cunning sequoia]

7 of these happened in the span of like, a year

[slim spoke]

What if they gave DoG millipede legs and he crawls around your screen

[ivory lark]

big DoG has never been in any version of the Calamity Mod for terraria

[vocal kelp]

☹️

[unique warren]

...sorry? 😭

[dense sundial]

That’s called iteration

[distant raft]

can you make dog's sprite 1 pixel wider and then say say big dog added

[hearty horizon]

Excited to hopefully not be entirely disappointed to the point I got entirely sick of fighting the boss and took like a month long break because it's just a worm with fucking LASERS

[unique warren]

Ya ofc I'm just saying that he's not really long grey tube

[hearty horizon]

Oh wow it really was just the Destroyer lmao

[unique warren]

Like, you can describe anything in simple terms and make it sound super lame

[vocal kelp]

he is a really long grey tube with spikes and greebles though

[ivory lark]

DoG's current design is directly derivative of multiple artists one upping each other to design the ultimate purple destroyer and I personally think we should move past it, and the only reason we have not already is because of the nitro art which was bundled with the OST

[dense sundial]

How about I describe him in much more specific terms that make him sound even lamer?

[misty wren]

the current dog sprite is just bigger 1.2 dog sprite which was more refined 1.1.7 which was more refined 1.1.6 which was more refined 1.1.5 which was more refined 1.1.4 which was more refined 1.1 which was more refined 1.0 which was recolored destroyer

[vocal kelp]

Like yeah you can also say eoc is a flying eye but at least there's a good simplicity in there

[hoary merlin]

I wish they given more lore about DoG, I kinda like his character

[unique warren]

I see what you mean there but like, genuinely where do you go from here without un-worming the lad

[ivory lark]

his design doesn't really deliver on narrative goals (xeroc is letting an evil fucked up clearly distortion worm fly around and eat gods) and it doesn't really deliver on thematics

[slim spoke]

Make him a millipede

[vocal kelp]

Iban has the famous example if you want one but there's plenty places to go without deworming the guy

[ivory lark]

nobody said DoG would be dewormed because he is a Serpent but ideally he will not be purple destroyer in the future

in my opinion

[hearty horizon]

Hell yeah DoG Sepulcher :D

[unique warren]

No I get that I just have no clue where you could even go with the guy if not doing that

[cunning sequoia]

i mean, eel dog was pretty good

[slim spoke]

Sepulcher is the coolest worm "boss"

[dense sundial]

DoG is a flat, abstract, nonsensical, neon, gemmed, spiky, big-mandibled, many-eyed, metal-armored line that fires lasers, of which there are approximately a morbillion in this game

[ivory lark]

there are many directions to go with DoG but it's a discussion for the distortion update since we can't kill our branding now :p

[cunning sequoia]

it cant be used now of course but. you can do interesting stuff with DoG

[ivory lark]

and also it'd be out of scope for the next update

[vocal kelp]

vanillamity makes him like a big purple wyvern thing and it's really funny

[hoary merlin]

you just killing my thought, I always thought he was a centipede

[unique warren]

W buzzwords

[dense sundial]

@blazing field GIVE ME THE TWITTER CREATURE.

[cunning sequoia]

he doesnt even have any limbs

[unique warren]

Tbf I kinda forgot about the eel one but isn't that a no go

[slim spoke]

He tucks them in cause he's shy

[hoary merlin]

?? isn't he?

[hearty horizon]

And then you can get it as a pet :D granted, it's the equivalent of a dog that the owner insists doesn't bite while it's tearing someone's face off (usually their own), but still a pet

[ivory lark]

DoG doesn't have arms. noxus constructed him in the simplest possible manner to teleport food directly from the overworld to his mouth and also be appealing to yharim

[misty wren]

just because one redesign is a no-go doesnt mean All redesigns are a no-go

[ivory lark]

he may be more wyrmlike in the future tho

[cunning sequoia]

noxus straw. noxus straw

[vocal kelp]

noxus straw

[unique warren]

Also wait did they change Primordial Wyrm sprite this update or smth

[ivory lark]

yes

[unique warren]

I couldn't see cause every time I use Earth it makes stuff go invisible

[hearty horizon]

God I need to do a summoner playthrough solely for the excuse of using the Sepulcher summon

[blazing field]

pinterest creatura..

[unique warren]

Okay idk if the chimera route is the best direction to go with DoG

[vocal kelp]

The point is there's things you can do (many)

[hoary merlin]

it would be a cool meme seeing him wear, ten thousands Void Striders

[dense sundial]

Forget the rest of the body, specifically look at its head

[hearty horizon]

The Sepulcher has such a badass design to only be part of another boss fight ;-;

[dense sundial]

The area around its jaws alone is a better DoG design than DoG has ever had

[young notch]

Holy SHIT that reminds me so much of Fafnir

[hearty horizon]

Now I want a full Sepulcher boss

[unique warren]

My point still stands, I don't really want human face DoG

[vocal kelp]

Sorry to all sepulcher fans but he shouldn't exist although if they removed it it'd be okay because metastasis would still exist

[slim spoke]

Would he have a chad face

[ivory lark]

something to remember with DoG in cal specifically is that DoG isn't a scary and he is a generally charismatic individual who cares a lot about his appearance. having a humanoid face would freak the fuck out of yharim's army, who he actually cares a lot about the opinions of, so therefore he currently does not have one. at least not visible from outside the armor

[hearty horizon]

BLASPHEMY

[cunning sequoia]

make dog look like alastor

[hoary merlin]

seriously though, why is worm was the first option when it come to the Terraria bosses 😭

[ivory lark]

easy

[vocal kelp]

Which Alastor

[cunning sequoia]

specifically this image

[vocal kelp]

It's a good image, sir

[spare shard]

did they remove sparkling empress?

[unique warren]

To be fair, Eater of Worlds is actually a pretty damn intricate boss for 1.0 terraria, I can see why they gravitated towards them.

[hoary merlin]

I mean we have space worm, robot worm, sea worm, sand worm...

[slim spoke]

The teeth, the ears (?) look like the mandibles

[hearty horizon]

I was 99% sure that was not the Alastor you were talking about and then it was, in fact, the Alastor you were talking about lmao

[slim spoke]

Practically him already

[unique warren]

Like, Eater of Worlds is way more complex than Eye and Skeletron

[ivory lark]

1. destroyer
2. destroyer
3. destroyer (fleshy)
4. destroyer (dry)

[young notch]

dog:

[slim spoke]

5. destroyer (mini)

[hoary merlin]

12y ago btw

[vocal kelp]

The reason there's so many of them is that fabsol found it really convenient to copypaste eows and destroyers ais fifty times

[dense sundial]

I’m thinking DoG could look kinda simple and innocuous at first, but he hides an outlandishly long gape that can split open like half the length of his body, which he would use to the fullest for his most dangerous attacks

[heavy light]

1. cool worm
2. cool worm
3. cool worm
4. cool worm
5. cool worm

[ivory lark]

he'd do this but he would be really fucking ashamed of it like you have no idea

[sick bloom]

waiter waiter more worm bosses please

[cunning sequoia]

actually unironically i think it should take inspiration from midwife from HK

[proper owl]

Why are people so mad about the ankh shield crafting recipe removal? I genuinely don't understand, if im not wrong calamity contains items which literally buff spawnrate alongside vanilla items which you can also shimmer

Do people literally play calamity js for it to be a boss rush

[ivory lark]

DoG unironically has body dysmorphia which is why designs which show off this aspect of him don't rlly appeal that much

[unique warren]

Yeah terraria and even cal old asf, and a big issue with cal is just generally not being able (or moreseo not be allowed) to cut ties with how it originally was or smth idk

[ivory lark]

Yes

[fierce nebula]

They do

[slim spoke]

Goat

[hoary merlin]

basically every biome have worm mob and bosses

[proper owl]

💔

[heavy light]

eater of worlds was added in there btw bc somehow yall forgot my goat

[fierce nebula]

That’s not necessarily a problem when they aren’t bitching about perfectly fine changes and just use qol mods

[ivory lark]

worm mobs are fine which is why we added burrower :p

[unique warren]

Y'all should make him have hella body dysmorphia then just make him lowkey beautiful under the armor lol

[unique warren]

Kinda like that BTAS episode

[vocal kelp]

2 of the currently existing worm bosses exist because of an already existing Calamity wormboss having a cool sprite or theme it's crazy

[hoary merlin]

they already done a really incredible job on making a better boss Ai

[cunning sequoia]

wait is this a real image

[vocal kelp]

Fabsol lowkirkenuinely got away with making deus u ever think about that

[ivory lark]

i would like DoG to be beautiful under the armor sorta

[unique warren]

Yeah, I mean now they are not held back by that nearly as much if at all

[ivory lark]

would make a lot of sense in communicating his narcissism

[hoary merlin]

yeah I like that mob so much, at least make it common tho

[fierce nebula]

Burrower is silly

[cunning sequoia]

he's resorted to schizoposting

[vocal kelp]

facetank everything

[dense sundial]

1. Destroyer
2. Destroyer (necromanced sprite)
3. Destroyer (necromanced sprite)
4. Literally Destroyer
5. Brown Destroyer
6. Brown Destroyer (necromanced sprite)
7. Red Eater of Worlds

[mighty geyser]

sidetracked dog ‼️

[vocal kelp]

It's so cool

[slim spoke]

Yo thats sick

[young notch]

God forbid a boss doesn’t 2-shot you anymore lmao

[ivory lark]

sepulcher is prob the only non-destroyer

[dense sundial]

OH YEAH

[vocal kelp]

It's a flying worm that shoots projectiles out if its segments
It's destroyer

[slim spoke]

Chop off its legs and ggs

[neat dock]

where is horrible hog!!

[distant raft]

sepulcher just doesnt try to touch you and so its the most unique worm in the mod

[dense sundial]

Dude I didn’t type the actual number order why did it replace them

[unique warren]

I actually quite agree here

[ivory lark]

sepulcher is a worm of a different breed, being a rare crawltipede archetype

[urban cloak]

soon.

[slim spoke]

How nice of it

Sepulcher respects boundaries (except infernum)

[sly delta]

ngl i feel like defense damage didnt really punish stacking high defense too much as you still wouldnt die to a couple hits but made fragile builds take like one or two less hits to die which made a lot more difference

[mighty geyser]

all worm bosses are destroyer or crawltipede

[neat dock]

good....

[hoary merlin]

even Calamitas pet are worm

[fierce nebula]

🐖

[ivory lark]

i don't feel it makes sense for DoG to be so vain about his appearance if he looks like a hollow from bleach but i like this design is cool otherwise

[unique warren]

I mean, it would give him reason to have body dismorphia tbf

[dense sundial]

Defense damage actually ENABLED facetanking because testers reactively hyperbuffed defensive options when it was added

[slim spoke]

Yea him looking hollow and lifeless would be conflicting with how he views himself and it would be tuff

[distant raft]

defence damage also did nothing to actually discourage facetanking post 2.0.4

[unique warren]

I think the only redesign I’m 100% down for rn is Signus, maybe because it’s the only one that’s been around for a while and not canceled

[sly delta]

lmao yea
defense powercreep

[young notch]

I’m still doing my Brainstorm playthrough so idk how much this has changed but my first playthrough really felt like it hinged on how many cooldowns you had.
Dodge, then healing, then a revive, then maybe another revive, all so you don’t get 2-shot

[slim spoke]

It's just a straight upgrade lol

[ivory lark]

i think inside the armor him being hollow and lifeless makes perfect sense but i don't think he'd let literally anyone perceive him as ugly

so he'd specifically construct the armor to hide all the blemishes

[vocal kelp]

dd literally was used as an excuse to buff the items because it was a bad mechanic people did not like and buffing items could be used for public goodw

[mighty geyser]

if i was a god eating badass worm i too would be vain about looking like the attack titan

[unique warren]

I think you’d have to make second phase armorless then

[slim spoke]

Maybe in P2 his armor gets stripped off and he becomes more aggressive cause his true form is shown🔥🔥

[fierce nebula]

Is defense damage being removed

[ivory lark]

you will see in distortion update :p

it's a lore and gameplay goal to make DoG's armor and true appearance make sense in-setting

[vocal kelp]

we want for nothing more but the vanilla changes page to be reduced by 80%

[mighty geyser]

SO true

[unique warren]

Kinda like a thing where his armor comes off and he’s less defensive but also way more aggressive

[fierce nebula]

Or just rebalanced

I’m confused

[ivory lark]

if DoG wouldn't be instantly rejected into worm paste he'd be wearing a full set of auric kind of vain

[unique warren]

[distant raft]

putting my worm in the auric tube because i hate him

[slim spoke]

I wanna see someone draw that

[ivory lark]

agree

[unique warren]

Didn’t the eel one have some auric bits

[slim spoke]

It looked like regular gold so idk

[dense sundial]

Can we get Orios’s Amidias in a blender but it’s recolored purple

[mighty geyser]

if auric doesnt complement his color scheme in his final redesign then having poor fashion sense is another reason to mock him >:3

[ivory lark]

iban DoG is not our charge

[unique warren]

Yeah ofc but it’s still the same character

[hoary merlin]

It kinda fit his character, I like that his ego is so high, in the end he died to his own pride

[slim spoke]

Purple and gold go well together imo

[vocal kelp]

forgot this happened like dude

[ivory lark]

yes, he'd totally do it

if he could microdose auric rejection he would do that too

[unique warren]

Naturally, seeing as they were both highly expensive colors way back when

[mighty geyser]

but will he be purple

[fossil parrot]

should I make calamity worlds in master mode now or stick with expert

[ivory lark]

DoG in the distortion update will have to be hiding from xeroc and not like clearly be a distortion worm

so his armor will have to not be obviously distortion related

[unique warren]

Is cosmilite even distortion related idk

[ivory lark]

otherwise xeroc would obviously smite the mysterious distortion creature eating essences instead of focusing on something else

[hoary merlin]

I mean he mocking us, he trash talking while battling with us players

[vocal kelp]

wow the point about dd really makes itself when you see that every calamity change to a vanilla items defense is a buff

[hoary edge]

death mode is less bs now so you might as well make a master mode world

[tawny geyser]

Yharim is actually in his own game heartwarming ❤️

[ivory lark]

yharim will get even closer to you next update

[dusk bronze]

it's literally from the distortion

[mighty geyser]

surely rebalancing is not the answer

[fierce nebula]

You can switch the vanilla difficulties on the fly now so it doesn’t even matter

[ivory lark]

Tasteless slop.

[deft lily]

anytime someone asks when yharim is coming it gets pushed back 40 more years

[dusk bronze]

is xeroc watching the distortion or something?

[fossil parrot]

sick

[unique warren]

Sweet thanks

[vocal kelp]

the answer is to burn everything to the ground im not going to li e

[mighty geyser]

every update yharim gets closer to your real life location
immortal snail style

[dusk bronze]

[deft lily]

😨

[deft lily]

xzier...
why are you blue...

[tawny geyser]

Every update the yharim title style should just zoom in closer on him

[dusk bronze]

i was attacked

[fierce nebula]

$0

[vocal kelp]

im blue dabadee

[obtuse hawk]

those who blue

[ivory lark]

xeroc is kinda lazy in current lore and is currently just sitting in the sky watching you and making sure noxus doesn't slip in and start nibbling on the world's soul

[deft lily]

:/

[dusk bronze]

ic

[deft lily]

sadge

[ivory lark]

xeroc kinda went into the distortion and solo'd like everything in sight though (in current lore) so there's nothing to really watch

[vocal kelp]

spadefish

[hoary merlin]

I hope Yharim theme is an organ

[dusk bronze]

insane leak??

[tawny geyser]

Yharim will be real before 2195

[fierce nebula]

I hope yharim will exist when I’m alive

[deft lily]

xeroc
more like uhh
uhhhhhh

[distant raft]

@lorefiends hey we got food for you

[mighty geyser]

xeroc stocks PLUMMETING

[slim spoke]

dwayne johnson 😂

[vocal kelp]

remember when the hip calamity balance thing was to kill melee speedd bonuses

[ivory lark]

Will Xeroc kill DoG? ❌
Will Xeroc sit around and do nothing while watching you fight bosses?

[deft lily]

leak.....

[mighty geyser]

hes not even distracted by the distortion his ass just let two different genocides happen

[tawny geyser]

Xeroc more like POOPYHEAD

[unique warren]

I thought that was kinda the whole point of him tbf

Seems like he only intervenes in like, the worst situations ever

[slim spoke]

dwayne xeroc johnson

[ivory lark]

he's supposedly meant to be active but the current gameplay and lore don't serve it well

[deft lily]

would xeroc be good at playing golf (this is a very important lore question)

[ivory lark]

the reason he doesn't intervene is because he's """busy""" but like he Is watching you and he does just let you walk into the dungeon and open a portal to the distortion

[earnest jewel]

Sure, why not.

[dusk bronze]

fraud

[unique warren]

"Let them solo", Xeroc says

[hoary merlin]

wait, where his hideout actually?

[mighty geyser]

xeroc reclining on a beach chair in the middle of the distortion dead asleep while millions die:

[hoary merlin]

sky? jungle? dungeon? temple?

[ivory lark]

the sky and or the sun

[tawny geyser]

I could beat yharim, calamitas, DOG, and draedon at table hockey all at the same time

[obtuse hawk]

it's like that guy with the magnifying glass looking at a guy on his phone next to him

[hoary merlin]

I think Draedon is not the kind of a guy you should mess with

[ivory lark]

you could probably not beat draedon at table hockey or any sport able to be automated

ur fighting a server somewhere

[mighty geyser]

counterpoitn: hes a NERD

[ivory lark]

you could absolutely beat DoG, calamitas and yharim at table hockey though

[hoary merlin]

I'm sure he is, bro knew everything

[earnest jewel]

Calamitas is a nerd, she probably only plays Chess with a timer.

[dusk bronze]

yharim would hit the puck so hard it beamed directly through your skull

[ivory lark]

calamitas isn't a nerd, she didn't learn any of her magic

she's a sorcerer

[misty wren]

calamitas lives in a cave so actually shes just a god at solitaire

[ivory lark]

you'd want permafrost if u wanted a nerd

[earnest jewel]

Only nerds know the difference.

[tawny geyser]

If I can’t beat him in table hockey I can def smash him in dead by daylight

[earnest jewel]

God you say?
Crusading time.

[tawny geyser]

I’m built like that

[sick bloom]

the lobby is gonna be completely filled with bots working against you

[ivory lark]

yeah you'd just be fighting 4 drones at once

it'd be like fighting a full comms stack

[mighty geyser]

calamitas isn't a nerd she's a dweeb

[ivory lark]

for the same reason you would not be able to beat draedon at cs

you could probably beat draedon at a bunch of less mechanical games though. draedon would refuse to play tf2 with you

[fathom girder]

He a bitch for not playing tf2

[tawny geyser]

What class would draedon personally play

[hoary merlin]

I don't want to mess with him, imagine trash talk with him and all sudden he leak your address

[ivory lark]

draedon would not leak your address but he would start walling

[tawny geyser]

He’d hit insane pixel perfect peeks

[wind coyote]

i feel like draedon would find their address but only send it to them and not leak it to fuck with them

[tawny geyser]

Built in aimbot

[ivory lark]

i am not a lorewriter but i think draedon would personally prefer the heavy or medic with sniper as an off pick

[hoary merlin]

Idk why but in the lore they make calamitas look like a character with an IQ below 50

[earnest jewel]

'I see you're living right next to the Ocean Pylon.'
'I... uh... nuh uh!'
'What do you mean by nuh uh?'

[wind coyote]

draedon medic main

[ivory lark]

she never went to school bro 💔

[earnest jewel]

Sorry the emotionally manipulated child isn't outsmarting everyone.

[hoary merlin]

guess that make sense

[mighty geyser]

draedon would only play medic if he was pocketing another of his own accounts

[ivory lark]

ur comparing a character who can't do algebra to most other cal characters who are several hundred years old

[hoary merlin]

no one can fix her at this point

[wind coyote]

also the subreddit is still on fire have any death threats been sent yet it looks like its getting really bad over there

[ivory lark]

yeah

do not look in the glue trap if you do not want to see vermin

[mellow spade]

it's insane how much people complain about things

[mighty geyser]

the lion does not concern himself with r/calamitymod

[mellow spade]

[dense sundial]

Alright, who’s getting rocks thrown at them today?

Or does Perdition not follow you anymore

[wind coyote]

i don’t frequent reddit at all but its one of the only subs i’m in so on the rare occasion i open the app the first thing i usually see is a calamity post

lwk just gonna delete it atp

[formal cliff]

yoink

[mellow spade]

the only thing the subreddit it good for anymore is YuH's "come join us" posts every update for removed content

[hoary merlin]

it an late game weapon, who care?

[ivory lark]

calamitas does not know how to get the hypotenuse from 2 side lengths of a triangle and ur comparing her to like. draedon or gods

dont be mean to her

well u can be mean to her she is an objectively bad person

[wind coyote]

she probably could if she was educated. send her to school

[ivory lark]

yes

[wind coyote]

she deserves an education

[fathom girder]

RELEASE HIM

[hoary merlin]

nah I think learn some from Draedon (hope in that time Draedon taught her some)

[dense sundial]

I don’t know I think sentries should actually be sentries

[dusk bronze]

whuh

[tawny geyser]

What does he even do I have like 50 in my magic storage

[mystic eagle]

Such a shame that this weapon is victim of the stronger offensive option annihilating your irl health

[formal cliff]

shroom bowl :)

[ivory lark]

Did you know that calamitas erased an entire civilization off the map because she was ordered to kill a god

[stuck kite]

wait until you find out what reworked sanctified spark does

[obtuse hawk]

oh right

[fathom girder]

She didn't want to do that...

[ivory lark]

she didn't have to do it

[obtuse hawk]

Ilmeris i think?

[wicked temple]

hello

[tawny geyser]

She was just feeling a little silly she wouldn’t hurt a fly

[ivory lark]

yeah

[pine moat]

am i the only one who put calamitas in brimstone cuz i thought it suits her XD (before i found out what she did to the biome)

[dusk bronze]

yeah she did horrific things
because she was groomed and manipulated

[dense sundial]

I know.

[formal cliff]

I should read the lore entries some day

[ivory lark]

ur justifying someone who committed an ethnic cleansing rn. ur giving calamitas the nuremburg argument

[earnest jewel]

We all make mistakes.

[wind coyote]

dudes would forgive hitler if he was a woman

[tawny geyser]

Mistakes 😭

[earnest jewel]

You monster.

[tropic jolt]

[hoary merlin]

wait there other one, does they keep the idea of her poison the entire ocean or it has been changed?

[ivory lark]

she didnt do that

[pine moat]

after fixing some of the structures, i decided to put her there for the pylons, only to find out she fucking hates it lmao

[dusk bronze]

she never did that, even in old lore

[wind coyote]

with that being said i love calamitas despite her several crimes against humanity you can like a character that does bad things lol

[tawny geyser]

Calamitas is the true monster while yharim is an innocent benevolent guy

[ivory lark]

i agree

[hoary merlin]

the sulphurous sea, isn't she the one who poison the entire ocean?

[obtuse hawk]

no

[dusk bronze]

no

[tawny geyser]

Yharim would never do something so evil like calamitas

[ivory lark]

her past gives a glimpse into her mind state and why she'd be willing to do something like that but she still chose to do it

[dusk bronze]

that was never a thing

[ivory lark]

which is her character complexity

[earnest jewel]

That was her country and Draedon.

[obtuse hawk]

draedon saw it as a waste site and it was already kinda on a decline and draedon just made it worse iirc

[wind coyote]

draedon is just a silly little guy how could you blame him for anything

[ivory lark]

yharim MAY have the highest kda in history but he had REASONS

[hoary merlin]

I'm kinda confused with the lore somehow

[earnest jewel]

Reason: Racism.

[wind coyote]

god complex*

[hoary merlin]

I don't think so, is it always been there who would live in such place?

[earnest jewel]

The opposite really, an anti-god complex.

[earnest jewel]

Do you see any civilization?

[dusk bronze]

she did it out of perceived revenge when she was a child and literally everything was burned down in front of her, and clearly regrets everything and is super depressed now. i don't think that makes her an objectively bad person

[hoary merlin]

the sulphurous sea is horrible, toxic everywhere, and radiation

[mighty geyser]

are we really saying ilmeris was the one time where yharim just wanted the god dead and wasnt going for complete eradication

[earnest jewel]

Yeah. Because pollution.

[unique warren]

It's a vegeta thing for me

[hoary merlin]

what is that?

[ivory lark]

i don't think yharim cared about the outcome as long as the god and her immediate worshippers were dead

[tawny geyser]

Is there anywhere I can read the new lore

[ivory lark]

calamitas also doesn't have a replacement so she could, reasonably, have just not done it

she was motivated by revenge

[dusk bronze]

#lore-discussion first pin
(not fully updated for 2.1 yet tho)

[mighty geyser]

true...

[earnest jewel]

'Civilization: the stage of human social and cultural development and organization that is considered most advanced.'

[ivory lark]

there isn't a universe where ilmeris stands but there are many where calamitas could have defected or chosen not to commit the genocide

and it's weird that people seem to defend her for it a lot despite it being personally motivated

[mighty geyser]

yes it is!!

[dusk bronze]

oh sweet

[mighty geyser]

unless there are more bestiaries that are different that no one informed me of -w-

[hoary merlin]

the one that calamitas destroyed?

[earnest jewel]

No.

[dusk bronze]

wait i meant the second pin

fuck

[ivory lark]

like... u can probably understand her mindset but u have to remember that she is still a human and it wasn't a forced outcome

[hoary merlin]

hmmmm, that doesn't explain anything

[young notch]

Unless more context was added in Brainstorm, I didn’t see anything ingame implying she knew what she was doing

[ivory lark]

do u think calamitas is stupid

[mighty geyser]

oh well i assumed they meant the new lore
as in the brainstorm lore

[dusk bronze]

yharim told her otonilou was the one who woke up the brimstone elemental

[tawny geyser]

Preciate it big dawg

[mighty geyser]

pretty easy to tell when youre burning down a kingdom i think
thats not like something you can mistake for something else

[balmy saddle]

i feel like the black flash band (especially magic one) might be WAY too strong

[young notch]

You misunderstand me

[ivory lark]

i ACCIDENTALLY turned an entire civilization into slag and molten glass and THEN i completed my objective

[dusk bronze]

the second pin is the one i was talking about
though the first pin does have everything from 2.1, it's just formatted completely differently

[balmy saddle]

it`s not a war crime if u didnt mean it

[mighty geyser]

its because shes a human being and depicted as such
people are generally bad at reconciling the idea that people who do horrible things are not cartoonish monsters

[hidden belfry]

Oopsie daisy

[blazing field]

It wasn't forced but she was a extremely impressionable child, yharim was a figure she looked up to a likely activelt went out of his way ot get her to think what she was doing was a good thing, and she already had a horrible mental state making her even more mentally vulnerable due to having lost her entire family and every she ever knew overnight and having been carefully molded into a living weapon through yharim's manipulation

The illmeris incineration was undeniably horrible and i do not blame any illmerans or survivors for never being able to forgive calamitas, nor do i think she'd disagree with the sentiment, but i also do not think calamitas is a objectively bad person for doing it. i know from experience that manipulation can completely warp your perception of reality and make you not realize the truth of your actions or of others

[ivory lark]

the literal only murder you can defend is otonilou. that one was deception

[young notch]

Everything in-game says that she only wanted to kill the Brimstone Elemental but ended up destroying the town in the process because she didn’t realize her own power

[blazing field]

That was azafure

not illmeris

[young notch]

Oh

I see

[mighty geyser]

(this is the reason for 99% of the problems with the aot fandom so i have Experience)

[dusk bronze]

yeah this
thank you calamitas in real life

[tawny geyser]

Why would CALAMITAS make yharim be the bad guy smh

[blazing field]

yharim's a bad guy?

that one image

you know the one

[cunning sequoia]

how could xeroc make yharim make calamitas kill all those people

[tawny geyser]

She manipulated my benevolent king to do evil things

[hardy sky]

its possible to catch alluring bait in hardmode?

[young notch]

Yeah no you can’t defend what happened to Illmeris LOL

[fathom girder]

When does hellkite start dropping from renegade warlocks again?

[ivory lark]

the azafure is more questionable and she didn't mean to do that, and she was also younger. you can probably argue that these are just indirect casualties of brimmy though and things would have been worse if she didn't actually stop newly awakened brimstone

[fathom girder]

Is it just post wof?

[dusk bronze]

post plant

[unique warren]

Plantera I thinks

[blazing field]

It's very easy to convince children that certain things are wrong or right, let alone those with the same level of mental baggage as calamitas; The difference is that most children generally don't have the extremely unfathomable power of the sun Brimstone

[fathom girder]

Gotchu

[polar tide]

you joke but this is legit how fandom people talk about female characters all the time

[blazing field]

Nor are they being convinced by like super auric h man

[hidden belfry]

Holy shit, it's getting hella interesting here

[cunning sequoia]

the answer is it's all yharim's fault

[blazing field]

Generally it's alot more. mundane. in real life. for lack of better term

[unique warren]

I do hope they continue to improve and redesign true melee cause mannnn I am not messing with it as it is now

[ivory lark]

i believe calamitas was a teenager when she committed the ilmeris genocide. regardless, her objective was just to kill the god and she was only deceived to kill the god

[mighty geyser]

i fucking love fandom misogyny its so great when a female character does 1 bad thing and suddenly shes the devil incarnate (toriel

[hoary merlin]

I think I have a better question, why they make Yharim look less evil than he used to be, they make him more, and more like a good character now

[hidden belfry]

"The Earth spins" ahh statement 💔

[tawny geyser]

Cuz he is duh

[ivory lark]

he is literally feeding you propaganda bro 😭

[cunning sequoia]

they make him less cartoonishly moustache-twirling villain

old yharim was unapologetically clear about how much of a piece of shit he is

[ivory lark]

like he is on the phone with you trying to convince you of his worldview

[dusk bronze]

he makes himself look good by lying to you constantly

[halcyon seal]

Yharim’s not a bad guy he’s acting in self defense

[mighty geyser]

and who is the one telling you he's a good guy?

[polar tide]

ive seen people actually genuinely try to say that toriel is jsut as bad or WORSE than undertale asgore. like, undertale child murdering asgore

[unique warren]

I love toriel discourse because it's either "SHES INNOCENT" or "SHES PURE EVIL" and never like, in between leaning towards innocent like she actually is

[hoary merlin]

I think because I like bee just like him

[tawny geyser]

Counter point yharim is REALLY fucking cool
so he’s not evil

[hidden belfry]

Yharim looks like the type of person to fart in an elevator and blame it on a middle aged woman in a mcdonalds

[mighty geyser]

its so Fun and Silly

[dusk bronze]

what kinda mcdonalds has an elevator

[cunning sequoia]

deltarune toriel is worse than undertale asgore

[young notch]

Yeah no wonder I was confused

[cunning sequoia]

she dared commit the cardinal sin of meeting sans undertale

[ivory lark]

by 'calamitas is an objectively bad person' i did not mean that calamitas is pure evil, because she is not. she is actively trying to become a better person and does not agree, in retrospect, with her actions. this does not erase the fact that she did not have to turn ilmeris into hot slag

[young notch]

Ilmeris has even less mentions ingame than Azafure

[polar tide]

yeah asgore killed multiple children but toriel was MEAN to him and thats WORSE.

[halcyon seal]

He’s not cool that bum ass is gonna get packed up by a guy wearing a sponge and using a buzzsaw

[earnest jewel]

He literally commited genocide and then groomed a child into also commiting genocide and he then tries to groom you into, you guessed it, genocide.

[hidden belfry]

ITS A HYPOTHETICAL

[unique warren]

No one is objectively evil is the thing

[mighty geyser]

the megadonalds

[ivory lark]

yharon:

[unique warren]

What is and isn't evil is inherently subjective

[dusk bronze]

[earnest jewel]

Toriel should have defeated Asgore. Is she stupid?

[hoary merlin]

I don't trust you man

[hushed hazel]

because the clearest and most direct source of lore info at the moment is literally him talking to you

[tawny geyser]

But he has immense hype moments and aura and is dripped out of his mind

[ivory lark]

he isn't grooming you and you are a megalomaniac of your own volition

[balmy saddle]

one must imagine talking about lore in a lore channel

[hushed hazel]

of course he's gonna make himself look better than he actually is

[halcyon seal]

If I was Toriel I would’ve just gotten some garden cutters and killed Flowey immediately tbh

[cunning sequoia]

yharon is an evil bastard, he just has a reason for why he's an evil bastard

it doesnt excuse his actions

but it does explain them

[dusk bronze]

same with yharim

[deft lily]

I think everyone here is an evil bastard and should be killed! ‼️

[hidden belfry]

"Yo, yo, yharim, revive me"

[mighty geyser]

oh :(

[blazing field]

they're both evil because they are alive

[dusk bronze]

[cunning sequoia]

kill 7 billion people

[halcyon seal]

Tbf it definitely doesn’t help that they’re called lore items and are some of the only actual story the game gives you directly outside of. Idk draedon and scal dialogue mid fight I guess

[unique warren]

What...

[ivory lark]

everything you do as the player is your own conscious action. you do not have to progress or kill bosses or listen to yharim like at all about the nature of gods. even if ur going through a regular playthrough slime god is like inconsequential but u kill them anyway and then yharim lies to you about it not being conscious

[deft lily]

real

[earnest jewel]

Calamitas dialogue isn't even real.

[halcyon seal]

i-i need some time…im sorry..

[hoary merlin]

from master and pet to a friend relationship is kinda throw me off ngl

[ivory lark]

it's a gameplay integration goal for lore to be more visible ingame outside of lore items

[dusk bronze]

is it conscious????

[blazing field]

He still sure is trying though

[tawny geyser]

Does the terrarian have a specific personality or can i portray them how I want

[ivory lark]

the slime god is conscious, yes

[polar tide]

?? is this real??

[blazing field]

I mean yeah i think its sapient

[ivory lark]

the terrarian is whoever you want them to be

[blazing field]

It's jsut stupid

[cunning sequoia]

say the line bart!

[dusk bronze]

hm

[blazing field]

Slime god is a dumbass i hate that guy

[hidden belfry]

Slime god gotta step up their game, they weak as hell

[halcyon seal]

Yeah and that’s great, love that, but in its current state I can’t really blame anyone for going “oh yeah the lore items are just true”

[earnest jewel]

Uh, damn, what was it?

[unique warren]

What does the player even kill in the current lore that didn't kinda deserve it lo

[balmy saddle]

didn`t slime god made all slimes which are evil? so i mean he deserved it

[dusk bronze]

wait i'm fucking stupid i misread it as king slime

[halcyon seal]

The Cultist?

[hoary merlin]

nah I think the idea of us (players) get isekai is better ngl

[mighty geyser]

YOU DECIDE THE LORE OF THE TERRARIAN

[unique warren]

Uhhh yea fair

[cunning sequoia]

cultist is like a crazy asshole tbf

[earnest jewel]

Aquatic Scourge.

[unique warren]

Okay, yeah fair

[dusk bronze]

queen bee

[earnest jewel]

Complicit in genocide.

[polar tide]

the terrarian kills so many bosses that are basically just random animals lol

[ivory lark]

i think after you read enough lore items you should probably think 'wow the narrator of these is not a good person' after he says shit to you like

The foul air, the morbid fauna, the disgusting terrain… Here lies the first mistake of my crusade.
The essence of a god does not simply vanish when the body dies. It must be properly disposed of or destroyed entirely.
Essence of a pious god could never fester into a mire as dreadful as this.

[halcyon seal]

Assuming the summoning method is canon we literally rolled up, killed his buddies, and then him for… idk reasons

[mighty geyser]

cultist literally let yharim turn his house into the mega torture prison

[tawny geyser]

I can be a megalomaniac! Yay! All the power to myself!

[cunning sequoia]

the terrarian probably wouldnt really know that he is one (and killing him is really fucking irresponsible) but he still is an asshole

[unique warren]

I mean that's very dubiously evil, like if you consider hunting evil then yeah

[ivory lark]

You should be thinking 'Wow, this person is leading a crusade?'

'Wow, this person kills Gods and then their essence spills on their floor and taints the surrounding lands? Why would he do that?'

[cunning sequoia]

cultist deserved it but it's likely that we wouldn't know that while attacking him

[halcyon seal]

How is the terrarian supposed to know that tho

[polar tide]

the terrarian is not hunting deus or aquatic scourge or the like in the same way someone hunts and then eats an animal

[halcyon seal]

That is fair

[unique warren]

Tbf Deus does not die in lore right

[earnest jewel]

You're saving Deus.

[hidden belfry]

Duke fishron, dawg was just created and then got fished out

[cunning sequoia]

doesnt he have gores now

[polar tide]

IT LITERALLY DOES

LIKE CURRENTLY IN GAME

[mighty geyser]

theyre not but he does deserve it

[polar tide]

YOU KILL DEUS

[unique warren]

Who the fuck is talking about in game

[hoary merlin]

I think I can understand why

[polar tide]

LOL

[cunning sequoia]

yeah ig the saving deus thing got retconned

[halcyon seal]

It’s like a 4kids dub

[tawny geyser]

I kill them for power and to get stronger

[halcyon seal]

“Don’t worry, Deus is actually safe and purified! 😃”

[ivory lark]

you don't have to kill deus but deus would die anyway because it is infected

[unique warren]

Oh, wow that's super lame lmfao that's an awful change actually

[cunning sequoia]

its rotting body on the floor

[ivory lark]

i do not know how you would cure a worm with star sickness

[hidden belfry]

Free food

[cunning sequoia]

uhhh beat it up

[halcyon seal]

Give them enough money to visit the nurse

[hidden belfry]

Star cure, duhh

[polar tide]

star bandaid

[hidden belfry]

Give it a mana potion or smth

[mighty geyser]

i think that woul dmake it worse

[ivory lark]

regardless, the terrarian can kill a lot of random animals that aren't really doing much

[tropic jolt]

all the bosses just kinda explode when health = 0

[ivory lark]

the scourge kills are both literally indefensible murders

[unique warren]

I think that can be said as much for cal as vanilla

[halcyon seal]

It’s not murder it’s pest control on a global scale

[ivory lark]

a lot of vanilla bosses directly attack you randomly

[tawny geyser]

The little shroom guys that I turn into stew yum yum

[ivory lark]

^ Hitler

[hidden belfry]

Devourer of Gods literally disintegrates

[wary crest]

Well if they didn’t want to be killed they shouldn’t be in my boss checklist

[cunning sequoia]

😭

[unique warren]

Some of em ya

[halcyon seal]

😨

[polar tide]

ok actually im breaking my personal rule right now of never discussing lore and especially not morality in calmain good bye everybody

[tawny geyser]

true…

[ivory lark]

oops

[cunning sequoia]

im framing that on my wall

[hoary merlin]

Infernum skeleton got me good ngl, I thought he got another phase left or going super saiyan mode for a moment

[limpid grail]

except that one is you know actively destroying the ecosystem it's in

please acutally make sure you're correct about lore before you go ranting about it

[tropic jolt]

☠️

[halcyon seal]

searslug

[ivory lark]

there is no ecosystem to really destroy in either of the scourge cases. they're both in dead or dying situations

[hard hearth]

l*re...?

[earnest jewel]

But that's the internet's oldest tradition!

[hard hearth]

[cunning sequoia]

lure....

[hoary merlin]

and I heard a bonk, figured it was a prank

[tropic jolt]

lore in my update talk 😡

[hard hearth]

this cannot escape containment

[mighty geyser]

boss checklist is canonically yharim scurrying up to you at the beginning of the game and giving you a hastily scribbled hit list on a napkin before running away, giggling to himself

[limpid grail]

Except there is very clearly still an ecosystem present in the desert established after the Incineration

[hard hearth]

commencing large-scale termination...

[hidden belfry]

By the term "Outcast" and "Former Guardian" which one actually got ass kicked out of the sea?

[hard hearth]

[mighty geyser]

[blazing field]

It didn't