calamity-update-talk

[fathom girder]

oh right

[stone fiber]

@Discord sniper

[subtle pagoda]

god forbid talk about update in calamity update talk

or lack thereof

[fathom girder]

oh, you're one of those people

ok

[polar tide]

nobody hates calamity more than calamity players god bless

[fathom girder]

gets all dramatic about something

gets called out for it

[stone fiber]

I'm gonna choose to think that this is the regular Princess

[fathom girder]

"hey man I'm just talking"

shhhhhhhhut up

[subtle pagoda]

'dramatic'

[vocal kelp]

the calamity devs should be allowed to kill people

[azure oak]

correct

[subtle pagoda]

mentions that a sprite is 7 year old
'gets called out for it'

[cunning sequoia]

no thats my job

[azure oak]

there are a lot of 7 year old sprites

there are even older sprites

[vocal kelp]

just put the update in the bag

[cunning sequoia]

i mean it literally is

[azure oak]

calclone isn't special and it will get its turn eventually.

[vocal kelp]

simply put the update, the update in the bag

[cunning sequoia]

its not cirrus, she has purple hair

[stone fiber]

Good

[cunning sequoia]

yeah calclone is bad but im ngl there are bosses that need it more atm

yharon and signus being the obvious two

[fathom girder]

Calclone is fine tbh

It's not glaringly awful like yharon's sprite is lul

[vocal kelp]

resprite leviathan lowkey

[cunning sequoia]

the design is the issue

the sprite looks fine

[azure oak]

seems like a pain to make

[stone fiber]

No

[tribal isle]

was turning armored digger into a miniboss that much more important than making one of the main bosses stop being a eoc clone

[stone fiber]

You mean the fact that it's still an eye?

[fathom girder]

yeah

[stone fiber]

This is this and that is that

[fathom girder]

making something irrelevant into something relevant is a much better choice

[cunning sequoia]

yeah because armored digger is genuinely one of the most useless additions to the mod

[modern grove]

In my humble opinion calclone is worse than yharon because yharon at least has more or less cohesive design. It's not great and the sprite is dated but it's better than abstract shapes notgingburger that is calclones design

[thorny fjord]

These are not comparable at all, one is a sprite one is programming

[tribal isle]

the 200 more enemies like that in the room

[cunning sequoia]

i dont think as many enemies are as redundant, useless and obscure as current armored digger

[tribal isle]

why does earth elemental exist

its shit

the drops are shit

[azure oak]

at least it has unique drops

[cunning sequoia]

also a pretty unique design

[azure oak]

already better than armored digger

[cunning sequoia]

and purpose

[tropic jolt]

➡️ 🐴⬅️

[cunning sequoia]

its not good but theres something there rn

there is. nothing

for armored digger

literally nothing

[fathom girder]

calclone is excusable and functions as what it's supposed to be

earth elemental is a funny threat in early hm

I run across armored digger, go "oh hey that exists" and then it dies and does nothing

[vivid hemlock]

ive only ever seen armored digger once in 3 years and i melted it immediately

[azure oak]

at least calclone's fight is just kinda acceptable

[fathom girder]

it'll be moreso once SSO drops in 2029

that rework is pretty fun looking

[cunning sequoia]

also a big reason why its not getting work done towards it is because sso is already waaaaay too big for its own good

[subtle pagoda]

was respriting primordial wyrm more important than respriting cal clone though

[vivid hemlock]

ask hpu

[cunning sequoia]

heart just kinda worked on whatever she felt like

including a gigantic DoG sprite

[woeful yarrow]

AA

[modern grove]

It was very important for the sunken sea economy to resprite dog 9 billion years before the dog rework

[woeful yarrow]

I need some help in general _talk

[subtle pagoda]

wouldnt said sprite also be barely visible (due to the abyss)

[hasty tangle]

the resprite is probably getting scrapped

[fathom girder]

wasn't fab partially to blame for that one

[cunning sequoia]

i dont think so

[hasty tangle]

and even if it wasnt, it wouldnt have come until the distortion update

[cunning sequoia]

fab wouldve worked with that sprite (😨) but heart worked on the design herself pretty sure

[modern grove]

Not realllly. From what I remember he just said that for a potential dog rework dog needs to be bigger but hpu did the rest

[fathom girder]

ah, okie

[modern grove]

And idt it was like a direct request

[vivid hemlock]

the 50 million sprites heart made because of fabsol that wont see the light of day

[modern grove]

The master mode skeletron primes

[versed tendon]

what if SSO means "Sound System Omega" - the exo mechs rework into one huge music speaker

[modern grove]

The mech and exo mech triplet

[vivid hemlock]

foveanator and exo foveanator 💔

also like a bunch of other random boss sprites like pbg

[modern grove]

foveanator and exo foveanator

[vivid hemlock]

🔥

[azure oak]

what would exo foveanator's name even be

[obtuse hawk]

what does foveanator even mean

[distant raft]

uhhhhh

[distant raft]

fovea (part of the eye)
anator (idk tech shit)

[modern grove]

It won't work because actual Apollo and Artemis didn't have another twin as far as I know

They had a lot of step siblings because Zeus

[vivid hemlock]

all i remember is that it indeed had a name

[cunning sequoia]

i should edit this image to add foveanator

[tribal isle]

What the fuck is foveanator

[obtuse hawk]

foveanator makes me think it would generate shields based on its name

[vivid hemlock]

pink eye

[modern grove]

I think it was kinda retinazer ripoff

Like it still had a gun for a face, just a different gun

[obtuse hawk]

o yea

[cunning sequoia]

melinoe

[modern grove]

That's actually a very complicated greek mythology topic as far as I know

[cunning sequoia]

yeah she's like an obscure nymph i think?

[modern grove]

And she's very very very obscure god

[cunning sequoia]

basically like zagreus

turned god in hades 2

[vivid hemlock]

apparently it was aeacus

[modern grove]

I'm pretty sure nymphs are considered gods in Greek mythology, just, not always deathless

[cunning sequoia]

its a little complicated but something like that

[modern grove]

Or not I don't remember exactly because there's a lot of moving parts

[cunning sequoia]

greek mythology is kind of like scp in the way there's barely any consistency and people just kinda did shit

[modern grove]

I think there's plenty of consistency, it's just, it was a part of a culture, and the culture was always moving and changing, and was different from region to region. Real life events also affected this culture. Like again there's a lot of moving parts and it's hard but possible to make sense of the stories and legends

You just don't need to approach it like it's a worldbuilding project

Because it's not

They didn't want to make a believable model of the world, they made sense of a real world as they knew it. And their views were very different from ours today

[cunning sequoia]

yeah you're right

[stone fiber]

Wait are you talking about blastozer?

[modern grove]

who

[fringe quiver]

it definitely was let's be real 😭

it probably would've been retinazer but it fires 5000 projectiles per milisecond and kills you in real life

master death fabsolian boss design, thank god it didnt turn out real

[modern grove]

i think you could theoretically do something cool with a third eye but you'd need to change the whole fight to accommodate that

like yeah some sort of suppport for spaz and ret

[fringe quiver]

give the third eye psychic powers because its the third eye (eye of the mind)

[wide wadi]

Anyone got a release date yet

[fringe quiver]

it makes you go craaazy

[modern grove]

in my minds eye sunken sea overhaul will realease in...

it will release in... oh no im loosing the contact

[fathom girder]

spoon bender

[wide wadi]

Noooooo

[fringe quiver]

could unironically be kind of a fun way to do the concept of a triplets fight with the third eye not much directly attacking you but supporting the other two with psychic powers or smth

[fathom girder]

that's slime god

you remade slime god

[fringe quiver]

not really?

slime god dosen't support his slimes with psychic powers he Dashes at You like a Deadly Sphere

[fathom girder]

yeah but like

he also goes into the slimes

[fringe quiver]

does he because like im deadass ive never seen or noticed that ingame if its the case

[fathom girder]

LMAO

[fringe quiver]

what does bro even do

[fathom girder]

Might be oldheading rn but he'll go into one of the slimes and that slime becomes more aggressive

[fringe quiver]

he jsut dashes at you all day

calamity bosses vs not being rungodabble

hardest challenge

[pseudo vector]

one thing i have in mind when it comes to bosses is making it so they have abilities and/or mechanics that stop players from rungodding

[fathom girder]

give every boss ravager pillars

I think

[stone fiber]

[arctic cliff]

i remember a funny argument i had with Fab about making ares MOVE FASTER than the player to intercept them during the rungodding

i was so baffled because the guy's only thought as to how to solve rungodding with ares was to make him FIXED above the player no matter how odd that looked

[desert garnet]

bruh

[azure oak]

ares has always been above the player and look at how that's been turning out

[tropic jolt]

incredible that fabsol was able to design a boss where you fight 4 enemies at once and they still get rungodded

[hollow harness]

symptom of never testing your bosses

[royal garnet]

I personally don't think ares being locked onto the player is that bad but it really should have been like, a few attacks where he does that at max and then back to being a normal boss

[jagged copper]

he does, though the main difference is a boost in stats for the possessed paladin so it's not all that noticeable. DLC Slime God however, that's a different story

[hollow harness]

looking at the design it feels like moon lord's TEoC beam attack but applied to it

[twin pier]

Guys

WHEN

is the sunken sea

Ravager

Rework

Or any of the other big updates coming out😭

Likee Yahrim or whatever his name was

I saw leaks and trailers for this like 2+ years ago are they still doing these things?

[dense sundial]

*Symptom of “””testing””” your bosses

[placid wadi]

you are here for a long wait

[hushed hazel]

literally nobody knows

[twin pier]

I mean i figured but like even ONE of them😭

[placid wadi]

next year

[twin pier]

I dont mind waiting

[modern grove]

sunken sea overhaul some day

[twin pier]

But i wish theyd say sum

Yesh

Ik they have made some changes but

[hushed hazel]

like i said, literally nobody knows

not even the devs

[twin pier]

Thats fair

[thorny glacier]

soon™
not this year of course 🫠

[modern grove]

sunken sea overhaul tomorrow

[twin pier]

And that one transphobe guy got fired which sucked kinda bc he was one of the fastest

[thorny glacier]

changelogs tomorrow

[twin pier]

😭

Four shore bro🙏

[dense sundial]

Would you like me to DM you about an hour and a half’s worth of Fabsol lore

[twin pier]

Yeah why not

Ill start reading while i eat😭

[fallen olive]

😭

[hollow harness]

hell naw just link the doc again

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1av6mucrBnK2F2IbKoxYU9yDaT2QhrlAhjjYEAAuoEuw/edit?usp=drivesdk

[tropic jolt]

famously very fast and efficient developer fabsol

[fallen olive]

Literally

Also famous for the beloved content he developed

[tropic jolt]

old duke ❤️‍🩹

[fallen olive]

We all loved malice mode, and master death, right guys?

[hollow harness]

gazillion weapon references 🥀

[stuck kite]

in some ways you can call fab efficient

but you have to consider his methodology

[fringe quiver]

idk if you can say that you probably cant

hi guys im moderator please dont say that i think

its true though but yk

[hollow harness]

its just so true

[fringe quiver]

fab is

technically efficient

technically

he could put out stuff very fast if he wanted to

by all means

now would that stuff be good. well

[vivid hemlock]

10 gorillion horribly made boss reworks/difficulty variants

[gray trench]

His idea of balance is one i understand but hate

[hollow harness]

10+ mod dev vote vetos like the US in any UN voting

[fallen olive]

We've got enough slop boss fights to keep you fed till SSO!

[fringe quiver]

Tell me, Fabsol. What does Calamity need?

[dense sundial]

His idea of balance is whether he can win or not

[fringe quiver]

Harder difficulties.........

[dense sundial]

That’s literally it

[fringe quiver]

I ask again

Shitty boss reworks...........................

Mao, cut them down

[fallen olive]

https://tenor.com/view/monsters-vs-aliens-bob-bob-eating-carrots-monsters-vs-aliens-carrots-carrots-gif-10979397057536458607

[gray trench]

More bullet hells

[tropic jolt]

he was very efficient at pumping out shitpost level quality bosses

[hollow harness]

more weapon references based on the latest game I played of course

[tropic jolt]

oxygen from CCR is better than any fabsol boss though

[dense sundial]

Okay but those are intentionally bad and/or funny

[fringe quiver]

no like

thats the best part

CCR

the actual by definition shitpost mod

[fallen olive]

I could cook up slop quicker than him tbh

[fringe quiver]

has unironically better boss fights on it

[fallen olive]

(I should finish the bosses I started for CCR)

[tropic jolt]

oxygen is a great boss unironically

[fringe quiver]

ive seen some of the -Gens in CAU and like

[fallen olive]

But there are priorities atm...

[fringe quiver]

They're straight up just more impressive than any calamity boss

I've never played CCR myself becasue im dont feel like playing tmod but next time i do i might genuinely just play it 😭 its like. an actual high effort shitpost from what ive seen

like its a shitpost mod but with actual talent put on it its kinda crazy

[hollow harness]

TRUE shitpost made by TRUE shitposters

[gray trench]

Cau?

[fringe quiver]

Private server

[gray trench]

Oh

[tropic jolt]

you must face them...

[fringe quiver]

Pyrogen 🥹

[gray trench]

Is fandom wiki just ccr wiki or?

[fringe quiver]

no fandom wiki is

[dense sundial]

I want to play Remix. But that would require I play Fabsolamity, which I refuse to touch with a 39-and-a-half-foot pole

[fringe quiver]

fandom wiki. i guess. i dont know how else to describe it

[tropic jolt]

fandom wiki is fandom wiki

[hardy gulch]

thorium is not much better than the fabsol era in terms of boss design im afraid

[fringe quiver]

calamity community remxi is a shitpost mod that is based of some of the stuff i nfandom wiki

[tropic jolt]

pizza hut maid calamitas is how I would describe it

[dense sundial]

I’ll totally try it if and when 2.1 comes around

[fringe quiver]

Rather than the other way around

[gray trench]

Ppl glaze mid constantly

[fringe quiver]

Thorium's ok

I've played a bit of it

[hardy gulch]

it isnt just fab era calamity that can have glaring issues

[fringe quiver]

Never got too far

[tropic jolt]

thorium has star scouter 😻

[fringe quiver]

It has some interesting stuff like i played summoner and they have little pokemon type weapons basically

where you can actually order your summon to use different moves and stuff

i think thats a cool take on summoner

other than that dont have much of a opinion

Again, never got too far

only boss i fought was thunder bird

which was like, fine

just

just Fine

textbook definition Mid like. its not bad. its not good. its just. its jut fine

[dense sundial]

I played Thorium exactly once

Got to Thunderbird, actually quite appreciated it, then the Terraria Early Game Depression hit and I deleted the world

[fringe quiver]

relatable

[tropic jolt]

[modern grove]

they should add pingas to thorium

[vivid hemlock]

horrible

[fringe quiver]

snooping as usual i see

[hardy gulch]

Knowing thorium it prolly has a reference to that meme somewhere

[tropic jolt]

hog

[fallen olive]

Next time you play you'll hopefully get to see rajah rabbit

I ported him for ccr

[fringe quiver]

oh my hgod that fatass

[fallen olive]

Yessss both versions and all associated content

[hardy gulch]

people will treat his introduction into CCR like the next 9/11

[fallen olive]

With permission from current AA team ofc

[cunning sequoia]

same here

like i had the exact same experience with thorium

[vivid hemlock]

awe inspiring

[cunning sequoia]

turns you into a mechanical singing fish ornament

[vivid hemlock]

💔

[tropic jolt]

🐟

[lean relic]

Angler approves

[white vigil]

I feel the depression when I beat the mech bosses personally

[spark kiln]

played thorium with my friend a few years ago

both went bard because it was a new class and seemed cool

physically could not beat the mech bosses

[proper raptor]

what is ccr?

[mystic eagle]

Community Remix

[proper raptor]

ty

[dusk jay]

I've seen some people say that Mura is bad but didn't specify what he did

his videos seem pretty on point to me, could someone fill me in?

[mystic eagle]

Spreading incorrect information, not doing enough research or letting viewers know that something is still in progress

Nothing too bad

[dusk jay]

ah ty

[fathom girder]

NEW CALAMITY UPDATE and it's just some community made nonsense

[tribal isle]

Happy Halloween

[fringe quiver]

Mura is a bit goofy with clickbaity stuff at times and it causes some misinformation but nothing htat bad

he seems to have gotten mostly better on that department i think

[vivid hemlock]

yeah

its mainly the murarmy

[azure oak]

christmas is over it's no longer funny 😔

[modern grove]

sunken sea o 20225 lettts gooo

[thorny glacier]

tomorrow’s another day

[mystic eagle]

Can we put that Amidias picture in the future doc so people will include it in their thumbnails

[fathom girder]

please

[versed tendon]

can't wait for my grand-grand(insert thousands of grand)sons to witness it

[placid wadi]

right before heat death of universe

[versed tendon]

yayks

i hate coldness

[placid wadi]

such a perfect quality

[placid wadi]

beatiful

[still bluff]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/711268703991365642/1437268970200629259/sparkleoffitsthursday.gif

[versed tendon]

updated

[modern grove]

calamity update moderation do your job theres an image spam in the chat

[mystic eagle]

The amidas posting now breaks rules

[modern grove]

The only reason I'm saying it like that is because calamity update moderation shortens to cum

[tribal isle]

ok

[versed tendon]

can't wait for shortened "calamity unstable model" update

[still bluff]

I am part of the problem

[modern grove]

Hello calamity update moderator

[versed tendon]

i have adimias' permission to downscale his face.

[white aurora]

[buoyant pulsar]

pyrogen honestly goes super hard

[flint ice]

when will this be

[vivid hemlock]

there is no release date and not really any estimates for when other than "maybe sometime early next year"

[versed tendon]

chads saying "after earth's death" and drops update before earth's death

[modern grove]

Me when I plan on releasing the update after the heat death of the universe but right after it happened our beloved deity that embodies our universe turns mad and tries to invade another universe (this will be a bummer for trout population

[tribal isle]

is there any chance yharim drops before the heat death of the universe

[tropic jolt]

everytime somebody asks it takes 6 months longer

[tribal isle]

Is yharim cursed to forever not exist
Even purple king slime got an addon

[versed tendon]

bro forgor the lorde

guys i found the r*blox leak of sso

it's even 2.1

[frigid pebble]

I'm not saying its a bad thing but if the devs show the amount of love they are in the SSO to the entire game Yharim is going to genuinely take over a decade from now

[vivid hemlock]

sso is more like 8 different updates that are forced to be bundled together

[frigid pebble]

I mean the actuall sso part of the sso

[lapis oak]

Many unfortunate events happened while SSO is in development

Did you know?

[deft lily]

👀

[lapis oak]

SSO has been planned since

2010

[vivid hemlock]

it wasnt consistently worked on so while it may look like 2 years to us it might be practically like a year or less of work not counting all of the planning

[vivid hemlock]

thats when your creator was born

[lapis oak]

😠

Go add transparent bangles I gave u assets already

[vivid hemlock]

no

[lapis oak]

Hag

[frigid pebble]

I'm not referring to the time the update is taking, rather, just look at the sheer quality and depth that was given to a single, rather small part of the game

there is so, so much for the devs to do if they plan to make the game quality consistent

[tribal isle]

Honestly crags are fine as is no need to overhaul them

[frigid pebble]

I mean, compared to the sunken see post update they will be very out of place I think

[lavish otter]

Kind of sort of a random thing, but I think it's funny when people come here asking if there's already a planned release date for SSO, because like...this is a major update that's been in the works for years

I imagine if it had a release date, it'd be a major enough development to be in #mod-announcements or #spoilers

[vivid hemlock]

very much not so

[placid wadi]

they will randomly at new year just drop that release date is something like 26th march

[frigid pebble]

plus the crags overhaul comes with some much needed boss overhauls aswell

omg I just reminded myself of how peak ravager will be

[royal garnet]

Irrc there is no crags overhaul

After sso calamity will just add stuff from indev if it isn't incomplete or buggy

[lavish otter]

I don't think that's quite it, they'll just be moving into releasing smaller-scale updates

[royal garnet]

Oh look we added one tile to crags, wait till next week when we add one background

Etc

[royal garnet]

Nah trust I'm the devs uncle

[strong isle]

Not really because a lot of the delay of SSO has been due to inefficient team coordination and a tumultuous creative process, and both issues should be corrected gradually over time

[rancid pagoda]

I don't see any decided plans after SSO

[royal garnet]

Because there are none

[rancid pagoda]

so this is just literally a huge rumor

[strong isle]

It's a small part of the game right now, which adds to why it's taking so long
We have to make Sunken Sea actually matter

[frigid pebble]

can't really argue with that

[arctic cliff]

i gotta make a gif like this but for the second stage of omega amidias

[obtuse hawk]

calamity gupdate talk

[deft lily]

calamity whining talk

[frigid pebble]

Its funny I've been shut up by a dev like three times in the past two days

[arctic cliff]

Why the fuck are you the lord of freaky flame

[frigid pebble]

its a peak username wdym

[arctic cliff]

go beat up malenia and grab her needle to cleanse this madness from thineself

[strong isle]

Plans are very vague
The major updates to be expected are Crags Overhaul, Astral Infection Overhaul, Distortion and Aerie+Yharim

There's a lot of smaller stuff we mean to do though, like Sky update, Yharon update, Abyss rework, Plague biome, Profaned biome,

[frigid pebble]

could Yharon potentially be part of the sky update

it would fit pretty well

[royal garnet]

No

No

[lavish otter]

Also in a sense, the sunken sea seems to be more of an outlier here than the standard in terms of the sheer amount of content it's getting. I could be wrong, but I doubt the sulphurous sea or like...the sky islands will get this kind of treatment

[royal garnet]

Yharon has been stated to be its own thing because he's too major and anticipated

[strong isle]

Not really a "shut up", more of a clarification
There's no reason to expect any of you guys to have such an in-depth knowledge of development

[deft lily]

^

[frigid pebble]

dw I was kind of joking

[deft lily]

were you though

[obtuse hawk]

a yharons

[strong isle]

To some extent maybe, but we are hopefully doing Yharon first, since people are ravenous for that Yharon resprite

[frigid pebble]

I didn't mean to sound angry abt it if thats what you mean

[deft lily]

well, you did so.

maybe think before you speak next time.

anyways

[strong isle]

What would likely merge with Sky update is evils-2 rework, due to the swap with Dragonfolly (soon to be a sky boss)

[deft lily]

Yeah

Dragonfolly is like
the most obscure boss imo lmao

outside of ravager

[frigid pebble]

my goats the perfs getting placed post moonlord is so peak

[obtuse hawk]

will the evils-2 rework come with resprites cause Im stoked to see what they will look like

[lavish otter]

Actually speaking of, have you guys decided on if you're sticking to DF being a boss or changing it into a miniboss?

[obtuse hawk]

well i mean

[cunning sequoia]

yes, and full reworks

[frigid pebble]

I think the spider perfs was scrapped right?

[cunning sequoia]

they dont fit at post-ml the way they are rn

[frigid pebble]

thats kind of a shame

[lavish otter]

You'll likely get that in Fables, it's an Iban concept

[deft lily]

on this note

is it confirmed that cal clone and slime god are getting swapped or is that still being discussed/considered at all.

[rancid pagoda]

how would you make it a miniboss, how and where would it spawn

[cunning sequoia]

i think that one isnt as clear cut

[lavish otter]

Still the sky, presumably

[royal garnet]

They're happening in fables if that is anything. Calmain fables are gonna be a hydra

[frigid pebble]

Im not quite as much of a fan of that one ngl

[deft lily]

I see.

[versed tendon]

originally SSO was supposed to be the terraria itself, but re-logic came with the same idea and devs had to revamp everything so it won't be copyright anihilated

[deft lily]

how can you be a fan of it if you don't even know if its happening or not

[versed tendon]

and even make the calamity

[deft lily]

[rancid pagoda]

random miniboss spawns are kinda getting to me with the plaguebringer, I would rather not have another one like that in the sky

[lavish otter]

Ah, fair
I think the idea there is that it'd be an event miniboss, but I think the concept wasn't much clearer than that the last time I heard of it

[frigid pebble]

not a fan of the idea, why does it have to be confirmed for me to have an opinion on it?

[obtuse hawk]

Im excited to see what the perforator resprite(s) will be cause I think there could be any number of ways to give it a more interesting design

[deft lily]

...fair enough.

[grave geyser]

nah thats brimstone
optional boss in an optional area who's primary resource for the summon is an ore the game never tells you about

[frigid pebble]

that sounded a little harsher than I ment sry

[deft lily]

its fine

[lavish otter]

I'm kind of curious if you don't mind, why is that?

[deft lily]

true

[obtuse hawk]

is this about SG and CalClone swap

[deft lily]

actually no I take that back because, well.

brimstone's sprite is uhhh

[lavish otter]

Yeah

[deft lily]

😨

[obtuse hawk]

hmm

[frigid pebble]

I like the way the two bosses fit into progression as of now, I just think slime god thematically fits as a semi-final boss of prehardmode and calclone as a midpoint

[obtuse hawk]

yeah

[grave geyser]

clone sg swap just sounds bad
it doesnt meaningfully help the pacing of the game like the evil2 folly swap and neither fight really benefits from moving

in particular making a slime boss work at plantera tier sounds like a pain

[lavish otter]

Because in terms of game design, the bosses might as well be blank slates, they're due for heavy redesigns and reworks regardless of what tier they'll be in at that point, and the change in when you fight them just determines the point in the game they'd be designed around

[deft lily]

I think the only reasn it was being talked about at all was to make Slime God's lore make more sense.

Like, you'd fight Slime God after Queen Slime.

[strong isle]

Likely but unconfirmed

[deft lily]

I see.

[strong isle]

Probably staying a boss? I don't see why it'd be changed to a miniboss

Given it will likely unlock Aerialite

[obtuse hawk]

im ngl DF unlocking aerialite makes a lot more sense

[deft lily]

It does lmao

[obtuse hawk]

idk how but it does imo

[grave geyser]

thought this was duke fishron for a moment as was like "what"

[arctic cliff]

i think it works better because slime god is kinda dunz BECAUSE its before queen slime

and imo slime god is kinda shafted on for being the first god you get to fight

[deft lily]

^

[arctic cliff]

yknow. the figures that the main antagonist actively genocided

[deft lily]

because Queen Slime HAD to exist.....

fuck relogic

/j

[wooden blade]

respect my waifu asshole

[versed tendon]

yharon theme lirycs refference

[royal garnet]

Slime god's current placement makes gods look weak. Lore wise there's very little reason for them to be weaker than Providence

They have gotten almost all the same power ups

[lavish otter]

This is the way I see it, personally
Even without Queen Slime's existence, Slime God is just...weirdly weak for being your introduction to gods as a whole

[wooden blade]

also slime god was venered by entire clans iirc, him being a phm doesn't feel like he is a being praised by a lot of people

[deft lily]

Clearly slime god should become post moonlord

[grave geyser]

post ml slime boss

god

[wooden blade]

and his old lore was even worse lmao, he was supposed to be the first entity xeroc created and could control every slime

[royal garnet]

Yeah if anything even mid hardmode is a bit weak

[deft lily]

the horror

[obtuse hawk]

fear

[wooden blade]

so like... how does he control other slimes if he's dead

[deft lily]

folks tried to make it work with goozma and it just

eh

[wooden blade]

just make him post golem at the very least imo

[deft lily]

kinda flopped.

[wooden blade]

give an astral and hallowed paladin and we good

GOOZMA 2.0

[deft lily]

TRUE

[wooden blade]

(or 0,5)

[royal garnet]

Yeah, would be better as a step after golem. You don't need anything between golem and plantera because it's golem

[grave geyser]

golem into sg has very similar problems as golem into rav does now

[deft lily]

yeah

[royal garnet]

Fight will be redone tho

[wooden blade]

yeah and it's already bloated, like calclone is supposed to be on the same tier as plantera

[deft lily]

ravager being moved out of that tier was to stop late hardmode being clutter af then it already is

[royal garnet]

Probably not even slime boss

[wooden blade]

like you have plantera, EOT, calclone, duke fishron, aureus iirc? and plaguebringer goliath

[grave geyser]

ok but
if you have a slime "god"
and not one part of the fight involves a grounded boss
why even make them a slime god

[royal garnet]

Yeah it's insane

[grave geyser]

they could just be made into anything at that point

[wooden blade]

so i think bringing slime got to post golem and calclone to phm would fix things up

[deft lily]

EoT?

[grave geyser]

just rename the boss and make it something completely different

[wooden blade]

wanted to say eol for empress of light

[deft lily]

oh

[royal garnet]

I'm not the developers but they have said they want bosses to be more original.

[lavish otter]

I think this makes sense at least, since from what we know of Slime God, they weren't exactly the type to train and hone their abilities for combat like Providence or...an unstable undead motherfucker like Ravager, so it'd make sense for them to be weak for the general scope of gods

It's just weird for them to be as weak as they are right now

[deft lily]

thats not counting the moon events, post plantera solar eclipse, and post plantera dungeon content

[wooden blade]

i'm counting what's around plantera and golem

[royal garnet]

Actually yeah

[deft lily]

oh

I see.

[wooden blade]

i didn't count the moon cuz it's on moonlord and lunatic cultist

but yeah it's still a lot

[grave geyser]

I know that
which is why I think you might as well complete remove slime god and replace it with some other god or even some other non god character

[deft lily]

Slime god is like
one of the oldest bosses in the mod iirc.

[grave geyser]

yes

[royal garnet]

I said a possibility damn

[wooden blade]

speaking of calclone too, she's like... a clone, a failure, so making her a final phm boss works

as a taste to what's coming near the end

[deft lily]

fighting retinazer Phm

[lavish otter]

I mean, they could change parts of its identity without completely scrapping the boss, I think that'd be cool too

[deft lily]

https://tenor.com/view/unique-ai-terraria-terraria-calamity-gif-22727304

[wooden blade]

i think it was astrageldon first. like he was called slime god but had astrageldon's ai

[deft lily]

damnit

[grave geyser]

~~ super overdone thing in mods but I digress~~

[royal garnet]

Plus she doesn't even have magic. You're fighting a human physically about as strong as the merchant npc

[deft lily]

Bruh

[grave geyser]

no it was just slime god

[wooden blade]

yeah like even her mech would suck objectively

[grave geyser]

astralgeldon came much later

[wooden blade]

it's her brothers, but they're even more failed

[royal garnet]

Yeah it's old and rusty and malfunctioning

[versed tendon]

pretty interesting tweak, ngl
||answer in dms, btw||

[arctic cliff]

i want calclone to have a questline npc who is an Illmeris survivor who hates Calamitas's guts like Igon hates Bayle
he'd help you fight calclone under the same assumption that this is Calamitas, and upon killing what he thinks is Calamitas, he will just let go and die happy that he "avenged his people"

and then calamitas shows up to reveal the clone's true nature

[royal garnet]

Sir this isn't fables

Sir Nautilus is that way

[wooden blade]

i also think that lorewise it would help a lot about her, not making her stronger than the wall of flesh could present how much of a psycho draedon is, letting his weak and suffering experiments keeping on even in their disfunctioning state is something that would introduce pretty well to the calamity lore

[grave geyser]

I'm gonna be so honest
the less bosses are tied to questlines the better

[wooden blade]

cuz it feels like the real story only begins in hardmode

[arctic cliff]

fables... I forgot...

[wooden blade]

sure

[royal garnet]

Irrc clone is literally just

A woman

Like she's suffering as much as most regular women

[wooden blade]

yeah it just a girl with fake magic

[grave geyser]

who ghost pinged me

[wooden blade]

she's could be suffering on her incompletion, her malfunctions, weakening her

[wooden blade]

it's me

i tagged you accidentally mb

[grave geyser]

👍

[royal garnet]

Not lore nerd enough to know if this is true

[lapis oak]

@wooden blade

[lavish otter]

This probably comes down to personal taste, because I personally love this idea

[wooden blade]

Hi

[lavish otter]

Like of course it'd be better to have bosses like that in moderation, but I think it'd be cool for her to share that feature with Signus, and generally having unique ways of building up to boss fights instead of just having them be "find resources, craft spawner, use spawner" is preferrable in my mind

[wooden blade]

I don't think it's mentioned but it felt like it idk

[grave geyser]

honestly I dont like that signus is getting one either but its ultimately w/e
all locking it behind a quest does is make it more likely people skip the boss, especially on replays
thats just not worth the tiny bit of worldbuilding imo

[lavish otter]

I mean, only if you don't really want to do those quests, which if you don't...then that's fair enough, you're just missing out on the content they provide

That's the case with a lot of games

[fringe quiver]

Idk about that one

Like

Quests are gameplay

Quest can be fun

It's just a matter of how you design them

Quests aren't Just a lore thing

[royal garnet]

My 2 cents would be, make it for optional bosses. Something I really disliked about the path of terraria mod is, for every boss, you need to progress fully to that boss, talk to an npc like 5 times, collect like 20 silver, get the boss summon and fight. It's just tedious and tiring after the first 50 ones

[tribal isle]

I’m pretty sure she’s just crazy

[pulsar cobalt]

quests arent inherently tedious

[fringe quiver]

^

In a way getting to a boss already is a "Quest" as is

[tribal isle]

Fish quests are not fun

[fringe quiver]

You accomplish various tasks to summon a boss and then fight it

[pulsar cobalt]

like talking to to statis after a certain point could literally be the only requirement to summon signus

but thatd still count as a quest

[lavish otter]

Well yeah, but that's because they're fishing quests

[tribal isle]

Booting up terraria is a quest in a sense because you have to boot up steam and do hand movements to click on play

[lavish otter]

The problem with them is that they're designed around an unengaging part of the game

If you don't like fishing, you aren't going to like the quests built around fishing, that's not the fault of the quests themselves

[wooden blade]

Oh ok

[grave geyser]

and if it was I would ask why even bother
if the quest is as simple as "talk to xyz npc and then go to abc place"
why should someone have to do the first step if they already know the second step
it would make more sense to have it be more of a rumor system than an outright quest

[tribal isle]

Calamitas forever cursed her from being a normal human

[fringe quiver]

I don't think she'd be suffering from that

I think the fact she's a literal clone of someone else and fundamentally lacks any identity of her own is a much bigger concern

Specially when idk if you'd want full brimstone magic given brimstone magic notably fucks up your mind alot

I like to think she barely uses it if anything

She has a bit of brimstone magic due to Calamitas using it to free her and all that but she barely uses it both becasue Ow Head Hurty + Separting herself further from actual Calamitas

doing her Own Thing rather than fighting the same way Calamitas does

Because that way she's making herself into more of her own person

That's just my take though idk

maybe writers have something different for her in mind #who #knows

[deft lily]

lore and world building? in MY boss rush sim???

👿

[lavish otter]

Come to think of it, this is actually a really good point! Like let's pick out a random boss...liiiike...Cryogen

To fight it, you first have to progress into harmode, travel into the underground ice biome to dig up a bunch of ice, fight enough enemies while you're there to get 8 essence of elium, go down into the corrupted and hallowed caverns to get 5 souls of night and light each, then craft the cryo key with those items...and wanna know what's stopping that from being a typical game quest?

Nothing, except maybe for the fact that it isn't presented like an objective

[fringe quiver]

Yeah it's kinda just presentation

[royal garnet]

Spamton neo is an example of a boss quest done perfectly

[deft lily]

what in the calamity mod is a spamton neo

[vocal kelp]

fake calamity fan

[fierce hearth]

Deltarune secret boss

[royal garnet]

You're informed of it after a mandatory scene, you need to actively engage in normal gameplay but harder to get to the boss and the boss itself is a harder than normal optional challenge that gives you a good reward for beating it

[deft lily]

ah

sounded familiar

(ive never played deltarune)

[fierce hearth]

It would be cool to have more complex interactions for bosses intentionally designed to be above-average in difficulty for when they are made available

But that'd just be flavor

[deft lily]

okay

anyway

[vocal kelp]

duke fishron does this

no its true go play deltarune

its required reading

[dusk bronze]

i concur

[vocal kelp]

you'll understand

[fierce hearth]

Deltarune isn't done yet

[vocal kelp]

it's also like good go play deltarune because its good

[deft lily]

ehhh
it doesn't really interest me.

[fierce hearth]

I know people who are refusing to play until all chapters are done and I respect the insistence

[royal garnet]

Yeah I know them too

[dusk bronze]

i thought the same, then played it and Understood.

[royal garnet]

All of them

[dusk bronze]

it was the peakest media in existence

also it's on sale for the first time ever rn

[vocal kelp]

eol does too and in the exact same way which is actually so fucking funny of relogic

go get my Special Critter, terrarian

calamity should do this but with a boss that is not old duke and also it should have good drops which disqualifies old duke anyway

[grave geyser]

ngl I think part of why I dislike the idea of boss quests so much in cal is because like
comparing directly to neo
deltarune is a very story focused game, your gear is more of a secondary extra layer
for a lot of people the gear is not why people go out of their way to fight neo or any other secret boss
its for both the story based intrigue (and maybe some weird extra story thing if the crystals end up having major signifigence) and the fight itself, which is fantastic
I think even if neo had no rewards a lot of people would go out of their way to fight him because the fight itself can be seen as the reward

simply put imagining that situation with calamity bosses sounds laughable with the current state of most fights
I cannot imagine how disapointed I would be if I went through a whole neo-length sidequest and my reward was fucking signus

[deft lily]

maybe ill play it idk

i didnt really enjoy undertale

[dusk bronze]

it's very different

[fierce hearth]

Okay Calamity does have 1 cool boss summon because it's designed as a mechanical restriction that turns into a superboss post-game with the Primordial Wyrm

[dusk bronze]

[grave geyser]

I wouldnt say very its still mostly undertale gameplay under the surface
theres just more depth to the gameplay

[vocal kelp]

thats fair in the current context id also throw up if you had to do a silly stupid quest and the end result of the hype and aurafarming was exo mechs

hey wait a second

[deft lily]

i see.

[royal garnet]

That's because bosses rn are bad

[grave geyser]

I fought pre nerf exos earlier today
and the fight was like
almost pretty good
because turns out when you dont fucking neuter the fight its allowed to actually be a boss fight and not a knowledge check

[pulsar cobalt]

i mean silksong had a quest for summoned saviour, so i think people will do a quest for any boss fight, no matter how bad or simple

[grave geyser]

mayhem still sucked though there is no salvaging that

[vocal kelp]

im sorry exos was never good this is insane revisionism

that's an argument you can say about like, polterghast and maybe deus

[dusk bronze]

[vocal kelp]

not exos, exos was always poop from the shithole

[fierce hearth]

Also the plan with Calamity in the future is to eventually bake more story into it with more complex NPCs and quests. Working more for your bosses is a planned step in the development of the mod. Now when that will happen? A long time from now. Maybe plans will change by then, but the bottom line is quests will not be designed around the current style of play of the mod when/if they happen.

[grave geyser]

it is impossible for it to be revisionism I had litterally never fought old exos prior to today

[royal garnet]

Moistcritical type language

[vocal kelp]

then you have like bad standards for a boss wdk what to tell u

[grave geyser]

I would like to reiterate that at no point did I call exos a good boss

[vocal kelp]

almost pretty good implies they nearly reach pretty good which means they're better than or at least good because pretty good goes above good

[frigid pebble]

just play with wrath of the machines and its the best boss in the game lol

[fierce hearth]

Lets not fight over exact verbage and keep this productive

[hollow harness]

True?

[grave geyser]

I would put old exos like
between yhar and desert scourge

[vocal kelp]

that's insane

Like u cannot say exos r better than pbg sorry

[fierce hearth]

This tier list is going to drive me nuts

[grave geyser]

ender have you actually fought post bh pbg they butchered it

[vocal kelp]

This list is actually kind of cooking except for like a few specific places but we don't have time for that right now

Yes we have fought bh pbg

[low elm]

Pbg fight is kinda a just circle simulator

[fierce hearth]

PBG is my least favorite boss in the game it makes me dread playing ranged only because of how much stuff is gated behind it

[frigid pebble]

I keep forgetting that Infernum is not base calamity and this list almost made me pop a blood vessel before that

[low elm]

At least when I last fought it

[vocal kelp]

however 90% of our pbg experience is pre bh so we'll take it but we'd still put it below pbg because exos are genuinely worse than ravager

[amber furnace]

crabulon is my least favourite

[frigid pebble]

crusifixion

[vocal kelp]

And yes we mean release exos

we don't think any of the changes done to them meaningfully change their ranking frankly

[grave geyser]

thana just
does not exist in modern

he just does nothing

hunters are the same but to a lesser extent

[fierce hearth]

It's very funny how WoF is such a good boss for terraria as a game that you can build the world to fit your needs for by being a boss that demands an arena and gives you restrictions in how to design it. But once you add any amount of complexity to its design for higher skill levels it starts to fall apart

[grave geyser]

oh and modern ares can just be rungodded in like 8 different ways its marginally harder to do that in older versions

[vocal kelp]

Yeah in older versions you had to go down a little and it sucked

[hollow harness]

Exciting gameplay

[vocal kelp]

The fight is insanely boring and really poorly designed eitherway so it's like

[fierce hearth]

Exos are funny because it's a boss that's an overwhelming wall of projectiles but once you take a breath and look at the patterns it's a fucking joke

[frigid pebble]

exos are sad because they have the potential to be so peak

[fierce hearth]

At least Calamitas has stacking mechanics that make movement more reactive

(plus the tiny arena)

[vocal kelp]

It's like ranking dog versions since like after 1.4, he's had a lot of changes since then but none of them are super meaningful outside of like sentinels phase removal and the fight feels largely the same even though it's Gained and Lost attacks

[halcyon seal]

ks is bottom 1 on masdeath and im not joking

[frigid pebble]

a good exo fight would def need to heavily punish trying to out-speed the attacks

[halcyon seal]

im so glad that fight is getting the frozen slimes removed

[frigid pebble]

similar to scal

[vocal kelp]

Everything is bottom one on masdeath

It's masdeath

[halcyon seal]

i was doing mount movement only masdeath and king slime LITERALLY FUCKING ONESHOTS YOU IF YOURE ON RIMEHOUND

[grave geyser]

split second where I thought this was ragebait

[halcyon seal]

with 20 billion frozen and jungle slimes everywhere

[grave geyser]

ks bottom one is just a weird take to me considering the bar for that is so astronomically high in master

like you could make a decent argument for just about any vanilla boss in master being the worst boss in the game

[fierce hearth]

Give them V2 Ultrakill behavior where they respond to how the player behaves to try to "punish" certain actions but it can be manipulated if you're good enough

[halcyon seal]

genuinely i kinda like twins

theyre bad but in a cool way

[frigid pebble]

lowkey a small machine learning integration could be so cool and fitting

[halcyon seal]

if im not blinded by fury from mdbd-mmonanar-2a the worst masdeath boss is plantera

[grave geyser]

ehhh

[glossy cedar]

what mode is this

[grave geyser]

everything but masdeath

[vocal kelp]

Hey crabulon would be lower if this was a classic mode ranking

[grave geyser]

ok not classic either

or expert

[fierce hearth]

If you run a lot they'll start trying to box you in (Thanatos dashing to cut you off while a bunch of projectiles tail you). If you stay still they'll increase the amount of bullshit you need to avoid to encourage you to not micro-step every projectile

[grave geyser]

does signus still take knockback on classic

[vocal kelp]

Hopefully

[grave geyser]

plant I find hard to call the worse just because its so tame compared to like, golem or empress

[glossy cedar]

yeah I would say it's up there with skeletron and hive mind

[grave geyser]

master skele is fun and I will die on this hill

[halcyon seal]

it is not tame i refuse to accept that

i fucking hate that fight

its such bullshit for no reason

[glossy cedar]

I have a hard time deciding my opinion on this cuz its not masdeath

[halcyon seal]

i tierskipped levi just for her and it still wasnt enough

[grave geyser]

I do not think I have died to it a single time

[vocal kelp]

That's not a good sign

[grave geyser]

if it was masdeath its just
every vanilla boss + hive mind gets one rank lower except like
skele and maybe twins/cultist

[fierce hearth]

I'm sitting on my thoughts w that tierlist more and starting to largely agree

I do think PBG is ranked too high but I guess at least there's some build-interactivity with the boss so you can at least do SOMETHING with it, and it can be improved in ways other than overhauling the entire fight

[frigid pebble]

every calamity boss is probably going to be overhauled from how they are now eventually

[fierce hearth]

I always play class-locked and PBG always pisses me off so unreasonably much when I play ranged and summon because both of them at that stage hate the projectile spam that you need to slap away

[halcyon seal]

except for provi

and maybe scal its kinda unclear for her tho

[fierce hearth]

But so much good stuff is also locked behind PBG

For those two classes

[frigid pebble]

scal is really good quality wise but the attacks could be a bit better I think

[halcyon seal]

scal is good but she has some pretty notable flaws

mainly the bullet hells

[fierce hearth]

Interesting concept but it becomes annoying on refights imo

Too much downtime

[grave geyser]

pbg at its worst is an annoying fight with bad visual clairity
at its best its a fairly basic fight with some unique qualities that aren't too bad
I know theres some people who swear by pbg being one of the best bosses in the mod and I've just never seen the argument

[halcyon seal]

pbg is one of the best fights in the mod, if you only fought her before bh

[fierce hearth]

I used to love PBG but as I've increased difficulty to always playing Death I've found the lack of visual clarity unreasonably frustrating

[vocal kelp]

It's hard to pinpoint what the best calamity boss is because they're all pretty poopy

[steep path]

Providence is my personal goat

[pulsar cobalt]

the best are scal and profaned guardians because theyre actually unique

[fierce hearth]

I don't want to spend an hour replacing the verdant shrine's walls with something grey or white, so I just accept the bullshit

[pulsar cobalt]

[vocal kelp]

providence is okay

profaned guardians arent good sorry

theyre unique its true but theyre not good

[grave geyser]

guards are good compared to the slop pile but they're still aggressively mediocre

[vocal kelp]

theyre uhhhh in they are in the fabsol limbo with current ceaseless

theyre both in there for different reasons

but like they both are there

[fierce hearth]

Providence is definitely my favorite but even then I feel like it needs more like, idk. I want the boss to interact with me more, rather than playing Tohou with gravity for a few minutes

[pseudo vector]

what is le discussion in here rn

[grave geyser]

bosses

[pulsar cobalt]

ceaseless imo is a lot worse because its movement is not very intuitive to new players

obviously if you know it circles around you periodically, its pretty easy

[grave geyser]

I called old exos "almost pretty good" and things escalated

[pulsar cobalt]

but thats not something youd be able to tell when dark energies are up your ass

[fierce hearth]

Talking about boss design. Started with talk about issues with Exos but branched off into a general gripe about the way bosses are designed in calamity and our least and most favorite of them

[pulsar cobalt]

tbh i wonder how much easier new players would find cv if it had like

orbit lines

for energies and cv itself

[grave geyser]

the only thing I think keeps me from definatively calling night provi the best fight in the mod is that build vareity is basically nonexistent

[pulsar cobalt]

itd prob look like non diagetic line hell but i just kinda wanna see watd happen

[grave geyser]

you run enough damage to hit rdr and then minmax mobility/bulk

thats it

[fierce hearth]

In my humble opinion, it would help monumentally if PBG's projectiles became black+red colored instead of black+green because a lot of players, myself included, like using the verdant pass as a base for building HM jungle arenas

[pseudo vector]

i do have ideas in the brain for a boss like ceaseless void

i wanna turn that mf into a kirby boss n shit cuz that would be so much fun to make

[misty wren]

i dont know why but at first i read that as i do have ideas for brain to be a boss like ceaseless void

[grave geyser]

there are so many things kirby boss could mean in this context even if only looking at the giant spheres

[fierce hearth]

I mentioned earlier using V2 as an inspiration for overhauling the Exos behavior to encourage more dynamic play and manipulation of their behavior. Nerfing flying diagonally as the optimal strategy in the process.

[glossy cedar]

how so, are they too easy or what? I don't see any problem with them

[vocal kelp]

Yeah but it's like, such an insane boss we don't know how fabsol did it

[glossy cedar]

I think the bullet hells with scal are very good

[misty wren]

they're huge dead spots in the fight

[vocal kelp]

as you said its hard to understand but like actually understanding what you do with it is so fucking ethereal you either do or dont and suffer it's so funny

[halcyon seal]

theyre just kinda boring imo

[pulsar cobalt]

scal bhs are kinda,,

nothing,,,

[glossy cedar]

I don't think so, it's cool to dodge bullet hells and they are most of the difficulty anyways

[grave geyser]

cause like
you have stuff like dark matter and nightmare which are just boring
you have stuff like zero2 which is a weird bullet hell kinda thing unless you include the air riders fight
and then you have void which is obsessively pattern based

[pulsar cobalt]

half of them just exist to extend the fight

[vocal kelp]

we're fien with scal's bullet hells but she is undeniably a boss that could be a lot more than she is right now

[fierce hearth]

Yeah it's interesting in theory but especially on refights it becomes downtime where the boss has no interactivity. It's literally "you made progress on the fight now wait for this animation to finish while it's invulnerable."

[pulsar cobalt]

you already know how to do them well since the 2nd hardest bh is also the bh you start with

[grave geyser]

thats the problem

[pulsar cobalt]

which also means you get a lot of practice

[glossy cedar]

if we go with this logic then every calamity boss is just pure shit because they all are artificial length

and I kind of agree

[misty wren]

if theres more weight put into them so they actually feel like an important part of the fight yeah they can be cool but especially right now they just kinda start and stop with no fanfare

[misty wren]

not really

[fierce hearth]

There are pretty few bosses with actual invulnerable periods

[misty wren]

bosses having hp isnt artificial length

[royal garnet]

I feel scal would be better off with revamps than full fight overhaul/redo

[glossy cedar]

DoG phase 1, skeletron first phases, yharon phase 1, calclone first phases, astrum deus phase one

[misty wren]

scal is the only boss that i know of where about half of the fight shes just flat out undamageable

[glossy cedar]

all are just artificial length

no difficulty whatsoever, just there to make the fight longer

[grave geyser]

clone, scal, cv, yharon, dog, and then brimmy/prov have psudo invuln phases

[grave geyser]

cv

[glossy cedar]

then there is storm weaver, brain of cthulhu, hive mind, eye of cthulhu

[pulsar cobalt]

but cv u do damage something

sure ur not damaging cv itself

[misty wren]

cv isnt a boss

[grave geyser]

harsh

[pulsar cobalt]

but u still have the option to be more aggressive to deal more damage or be more passive to deal less but be more safe

[glossy cedar]

?? have you ever played this mod??

[grave geyser]

yharon phase 1 is harder than yharon phase 2 - the teleports imo

[fierce hearth]

Skeleton hands are a core mechanic, DoG is only invulnerable during the phase transition which is maybe a bit long but is that way for a reason, calclone has the same issue as scal, deus phase 1 can be argued over idc

[misty wren]

yeah i have almost 3000 hours in it i just dont acknowledge cvs existence

it does not exist and even if it does it certainly doesnt get the title of boss

[vocal kelp]

wdk man frankly we think she can be pushed a lot more to the point we don't think it'd be needed to preserve any current behaviourb ut thats we gues up to whatever the devs envision for her

[grave geyser]

also calling skeles first phase fluff is like
its called a difficulty curve
the thing where bosses get harder with new attacks as the fight progresses

just because clone decided to leave its difficulty curve at home doesnt mean other bosses didnt

[glossy cedar]

what the fuck are you on about

[misty wren]

cv doesnt get to be a boss

it doesnt deserve that title

[pulsar cobalt]

signus doesnt either

[glossy cedar]

hard to believe that you played 3000 hours of calamity while asleep

[buoyant pulsar]

@stray wharf

[glossy cedar]

are you sure you aren't just really bad at the fight? it's a plausible reason

[misty wren]

realistically the only ex sentinel that deserves to be a boss is weaver

[vocal kelp]

to be fair it is not their fault

[misty wren]

no

thats not why

[vocal kelp]

ceaseless void is not a fight you can be good or bad at

[glossy cedar]

❌ ❌ ❌ ❌ completely wrong btw

[grave geyser]

cv is a really easy fight to be good at since speedkill strats just invalidate the entire boss

[proper raptor]

Why are we hating on signus

[vocal kelp]

you either can understand his bullshit or you can't

[glossy cedar]

CV is a mostly deterministic fight, there are patterns that work for it

[glossy cedar]

... just learn the patterns dude

[grave geyser]

its litterally just a big corite with projectiles

[vocal kelp]

thats not being good at the boss

[misty wren]

it doesnt deserve to be a boss because the fight is one of the worst bosses in the mod and it does almost literally nothing for progression

[proper raptor]

I can see that argument

[grave geyser]

good at chessing it :)

[glossy cedar]

ceaseless void is mostly skill based, like it or not

[misty wren]

signus is also one of these bosses

[grave geyser]

calling cv one of the worst bosses in the mod is a massive overexageration

[misty wren]

storm weavers fight is at least passable but cv and signus are unacceptable

[vocal kelp]

understanding the bullshit ceaseless does is surely "skill" but it is also just not fucking good man

we would not call cv the worst though because he is not boring as fuck

[grave geyser]

like is the fight good? fuck no

is it down there with signus and destroyer? also no

[proper raptor]

Honestly the sentinels all feel a bit like padding, but I can at least acknowledge SW phase 2 has an interesting pattern (phase 1 is absolutely braindead)

[vocal kelp]

worst calamity fight imo is dog

he isn't really the like, worst worst but like,

[grave geyser]

dog on an objective level isnt the worst but like

[vocal kelp]

he commits the sin of being dog

[glossy cedar]

it's not that bad

[pulsar cobalt]

dog is very bad in context of him being one of the faces of the mod

[misty wren]

its the face of terraria modding and its Not Good

[pulsar cobalt]

like if deus had dog ai, i dont think that many people would care much like how people dont talk about how deus is a bit lackluster now

[grave geyser]

dog I wouldnt call the worst boss but I would call dog the boss where him being dogshit is the most damaging

[glossy cedar]

CV is just one of those bosses where the average player goes "wait, I don't understand it! and it's weird and looks stupid! I hate this stupid fucking boss" and then they throw a temper tantrum about it

[deft lily]

truthnuke\

[misty wren]

dog is like john terraria mod boss and its not a very good boss

[vocal kelp]

on an objective level we'd personally put deus

dude its okay fabsol is dead you dont have to defend his glorpshit

[deft lily]

only because of the music tbh

[misty wren]

this was never about difficulty

you were the one that brought up difficulty

[glossy cedar]

well what is it about then?

[vocal kelp]

we knew how to dodge ceaseless right away and we still know hes bad

[pulsar cobalt]

boss design

[misty wren]

its about how ceaseless void is a dogshit boss

[vocal kelp]

because that shit isnt good boss design man

[glossy cedar]

why?

[grave geyser]

deus being dest but 2 is marginally more interesting than dest but 1 so I call dest worse

[glossy cedar]

I just don't understand what is so horrible about it, it's a 5/10 bossfight but not this bad

[vocal kelp]

we dont think hes more interesting frankly

[grave geyser]

ok that might be true but probes are assholes so I still dislike dest more

[vocal kelp]

maybe this is a very specific issue of ours where our low fps really harm our perception of the boss but deus is genuinely nothing

it has one attack

[glossy cedar]

it's funny how this is true, but if you try malice you realize its the opposite

[vocal kelp]

like the mines arent relevant ever

and the second phase igives it the same attack but with a different visual

thats crazy

[grave geyser]

they were relavent when I did phm deus! (the mines did defense damage and the main body doesnt)

[vocal kelp]

lmfao

we just never ever get hit by a mine wdk

[glossy cedar]

also never try malice exo mechs, it's a shit boss but superbuffed so its super shit

[vocal kelp]

and like we barely use much space when fighting deus cuz hes so slow you can kinda just fly a little and evade thw rosm themselves

[grave geyser]

malice is just bad

more at 11

[misty wren]

it floats in the corners of your screen and does literally nothing except sometimes move to a different corner of your screen

[glossy cedar]

it's worse than master death mode

[misty wren]

no

it really isnt

[glossy cedar]

yes it really is

[misty wren]

malice is bad it is not master death bad

[grave geyser]

master death is at least uniquely dogshit

[tribal isle]

Did the new deus design drop

[grave geyser]

malice every boss is shit for mostly the same reasons

[glossy cedar]

idk man, I did both of them and master death mode is just better

[grave geyser]

in masdeath every boss is shit for reasons special to that boss

[glossy cedar]

yes and the shit parts of it are much worse

[vocal kelp]

it also makes you do some insane fucking shit microweaving where you have to fucking predict the way each energy moves and thats super unintuitive as fuck in a way that is simply not fun to learn even if you can

[misty wren]

outside of like 2 bosses that are actually not dogshit

[vocal kelp]

malice every boss just got like more damage and speed

[glossy cedar]

which have no malice changes

[grave geyser]

I could say the same about masdeath

[glossy cedar]

like malice providence, which is just equivalent to nighttime death mode provi

[vocal kelp]

while fabsol with master death pulled his more Out There dogshit

[misty wren]

does masdeath have any bosses that it actually changes that arent dogshit

[vocal kelp]

no

[glossy cedar]

BoC and golem

[grave geyser]

LOL BOC

[vocal kelp]

BOC

lol, lmao

[misty wren]

lmao

[fierce hearth]

CV falls into the category of "boss that is mechanically extremely unintuitive to a lot of players because layering movement patterns on top of each other just fries some people's brains" and there's no designing that away. It's a fundamentally unfixable problem.

[grave geyser]

I mean its not as bad as it was prepatch but

[pulsar cobalt]

release masdeath golem had forced people to use hoiks which i think is hilarious

[glossy cedar]

lol again I feel like this is some kind of skill issue, I never get a true answer on why BoC is so horrible

[grave geyser]

"release" it never got nerfed

[pulsar cobalt]

oh

lol

[grave geyser]

golem is in the exact same state it was when bh dropped

in fact it might actually do even more damage

[pulsar cobalt]

thats hilarious ngl

[glossy cedar]

the attacks are telegraphed in phase 2, where phase 2 is also most of the difficulty, it's fair except phase 1 but that is a sleeper phase and phase 2 is fun

[misty wren]

yeah

[deft lily]

its funny because half of that update is like
getting removed lmao

or at least the main "thing" of that update is gone now

[glossy cedar]

it's a really unique boss with a cool attack pattern

[vocal kelp]

thats awesome man

the harvest was frankly not bountiful like at all

[glossy cedar]

and golem is cool, it's one of the fights where you are trapped in a small environment with a lot of projectiles and you have to traverse through them with skill

[grave geyser]

anyway masdeath skeletron would probably be my favorite version of skeletron if the final phase was just a tad easier

[glossy cedar]

just make sure to kill the hands properly, otherwise it can be a bit annoying

[vocal kelp]

you're assuming the fact you can overcome bullshit with skill means the bullshit is fine when that's not how it actually works

[glossy cedar]

it's not bullshit in this case

[misty wren]

no it really is

[vocal kelp]

it really is man

[grave geyser]

masdeath golem phase 2 is 100% bullshit
bullshit can be fun and still be bullshit

[glossy cedar]

In most cases I wouldn't call skill based attack patterns bullshit

calamity always has a deviance with the attacks so saying its not 100% deterministic is just a part of calamity

[grave geyser]

the fight has all the makings of projectile spam hell but it gets remarkably consistent
the only time I would call masterskele bs is the final phase where the speed scaling rapidly just becomes "good luck lmao"

[glossy cedar]

how so? phase 2 is the easy part and you always know what is going to happen

[grave geyser]

how is phase 2 the easy part
phase 1 is free and phase 3 is just phase 2 but with less fireballs (easier)

ok thats not an acurate description of phase 3 but idk its just super unmemorable

[vocal kelp]

masdeath golem simply does not have "skill based attack patterns"

[glossy cedar]

the fireballs are most of the difficulty here, idk what is the difficulty in phase 2 as you can dodge all of it by just floating mid air and avoiding the body

[vocal kelp]

it has like more numbers

fabsol punched more numbers in the places numbers could be punched

[glossy cedar]

yet the attempt count of people who no-hit golem fluctuates from 800 to 200

[vocal kelp]

these guys weren't even tested man

[grave geyser]

no see he beat the boss a single time so its balanced

[fierce hearth]

Even regular death golem is like "do you enjoy lingering 300 damage hitboxes?"

[grave geyser]

anything good coming out of masdeath is ultimately a happy accident sadly

[vocal kelp]

genuinely how is this an argument

unless a boss is physically impossible to nohit nohitters will indeed nohit the things

[glossy cedar]

sure bro

[vocal kelp]

and sometimes you're like lucky and shit

[grave geyser]

thats not a joke

that was the actual criteria for whether the fight was "balanced"

[misty wren]

thats genuinely how he went through it

[vocal kelp]

and again the fact shit can be overcome with skill is not an argument for the shit

[glossy cedar]

I never said it was balanced

[lavish otter]

The fact that there's that large of a range says to me that it's in large part luck based

[glossy cedar]

oh really? 800 attempts compared to 200 is pure chance? yeah right

[misty wren]

yeah

yeah it kinda is

[vocal kelp]

yeah frankly

[misty wren]

400% variance means theres a lot of chance involved

[glossy cedar]

ok I have no idea how to explain to you why the last phase is easy so I'll just link my video

https://youtu.be/tF6KqojRi5k

just look at the last phase

[vocal kelp]

do you think easy and good are synonyms

[glossy cedar]

you just kind of float around and dodge everything

[vocal kelp]

also easy things can be bad

that sounds terrible

[grave geyser]

anyway my main thing about master skele is that it manages to be hard without just devolving into spam (at least before the end and even then the end would be fine if his attack speed didnt scale to such an absurd degree)

[glossy cedar]

what are we talking about here? I referenced to the fact that Critaquil said that phase 2 is the harder part

[lavish otter]

Oh right, you just dodge the attacks, I hadn't considered that-

[glossy cedar]

and I disagree

[vocal kelp]

by replying to the comment where they did not talk about that?

[glossy cedar]

my bad bro too fucking bad

[grave geyser]

what part are you refering to as phase 2

[glossy cedar]

I would say when the head is loose

[grave geyser]

because when I say phase 2 I mean the phase where the head is attached but the fists are dead

[glossy cedar]

If you meant that then yeah phase 2 is the hardest part

I can agree on that

I would say only actual bad part about master death mode golem is the fact that the fireballs go at random speeds

[grave geyser]

I actually dont think its random I think he always fires 1 fast 1 medium and 1 slow per volley
but since where he fires them from is dependant on your position it certainly feels random

[glossy cedar]

I think master death mode skeletron could be good, but I also think that exdeath skeletron just does the fight better although much easier

[glossy cedar]

oh ok, sadly you can't really use that info as the fight is way too fast for that

[vocal kelp]

we're glad everyone could come to an understanding

[glossy cedar]

idek what we were talking abt, trying to argue about things over text is just a massive waste of time

[vocal kelp]

they should readd malice mode

[lavish otter]

Honestly, I don't see how it's any less of a waste than arguing in person

[vocal kelp]

in person you can punch your friend for being annoying about their calamity boss opinions

not that we think anyone has argued about this topic in real llife

[dusk bronze]

legdeath renamed to malice in sso

[vocal kelp]

we know

[tropic jolt]

those who know

crows who mow

[vocal kelp]

crows who mow