calamity-update-talk

[main falcon]

Ah i missread

I thought only aegis had kept it

[dull heart]

KB immunity is kept on valor

I just don't remember the recipe

[main falcon]

Are the cosmic guardians removed to prevent lifesteal builds

Since they take more damage on the body so their are easier to lifesteal

[sterile moss]

Nah I think they were removed bc they don’t make a whole lot of sense

[main falcon]

Compared to dog

[dull heart]

No they were removed because they sucked

[main falcon]

That's true

[sterile moss]

Hope this rework makes dog actually fun

[main falcon]

He will never be fun

[sterile moss]

He’s prolly the only post ml boss I don’t really enjoy besides cv

[main falcon]

The only fun is the excitement for reaching certain thresholds

[pseudo vector]

from personal experience new DoG is actually fun

[main falcon]

Jk

I love dog

[pseudo vector]

he's a lot more enjoyable than public DoG

and i much prefer it to infernum DoG

[sterile moss]

This is relieving to hear

[main falcon]

Why is the anhk being taken away from the asguard

[pseudo vector]

decentralisation

[main falcon]

I thought it was a neat addition

[sterile moss]

Didn’t want another “how fast can you double tap” test

[main falcon]

Dumb

[wide wadi]

Cd music would you say it’s the best boss in calamity

[sterile moss]

(I know there’s a dash hotkey but muscle memory got me used to double tapping)

[pseudo vector]

there's a few reasons but it'd take a bit to explain

[wide wadi]

Or would you say the old duke is trash and should be removed

[pseudo vector]

SSO DoG rework

[distant raft]

malice 🥰

[main falcon]

I don't like the criticism of the long crafting trees

I deeply enjoy getting to upgrade gear

[pseudo vector]

ankh was always very tedious to craft

[main falcon]

The hunts are neat since I can see what changes in most biomes and refresh my memory

[sterile moss]

True but sometimes it gets to the point where it’s a lot to keep up with

There’s a balance that needs to be struck

[pseudo vector]

i'm neutral on old duke personally, i don't have much of a strong attachment to him but he's fine

[main falcon]

Not really there's only like 2 problem items

Since slime god dropped 2 of them

[pseudo vector]

there are much worse fights than old duke

[cinder hearth]

You know decentralisation doesn't mean "make the crafting trees less complicated" right?

It's because it's too good

[sterile moss]

Base calamity duke isn’t terrible if you just keep moving

[main falcon]

And the others are drops of multiple snemies

[cinder hearth]

You can also craft them

Calamity adds crafting recipes for every single ankh shield component iirc

[sterile moss]

Infernum duke quickly devolves into a “how fast can you double tap” test before the “how fast can you double tap” test

[main falcon]

Yeah but i think it was deserved to be good

[pseudo vector]

asgard's valor was too good for its point in the game

[main falcon]

And besides common debuffs stopped being that important later on

[cinder hearth]

Good makes sense and is fun, so good it overshadows any other option with little, niche exceptions is not fun

Or well, could be better, rather

[distant raft]

not true

[pseudo vector]

it'll be more balanced and other options will be more viable as a result

[main falcon]

The only other options are like the bottle that gives good effects to the debuffs

[distant raft]

you cannot outpace inf old duke p4

[dull heart]

Yeah the issue was not the crafting tree

[pseudo vector]

there was a strat i used but it required a very specific scenario to work

[cinder hearth]

.....this isn't even close to the same role Asgard's valor fills what do you mean

[dull heart]

what the issue was is valor being too strong

[main falcon]

Yeah de buff inmunity

[sterile moss]

Not outpacing, ram dashing

[distant raft]

i know

[main falcon]

You used with the upgrade to the shield of cuthulu

[cinder hearth]

Yes, but the really strong parts is the dash and KB immunity

Even if you use grand gelatin you're still gonna want those

[distant raft]

your shield slam doesn't recharge fast enough to outpace old duke's own

[main falcon]

To get both the debuffs buffs and strong dash

[cinder hearth]

The debuff immunity is good but like, that's not the MAIN function of valor

[pseudo vector]

asgard's valor will still be good and still gives knockback immunity

[distant raft]

unless you sac a decent part of your damage and use valor and tortoise shell

[dull heart]

The debuff immunity isn't even that good

[quiet spade]

I leave the channel for a sec and yor already spoing

[untold chasm]

Is it gonna be folded into the Asgardian aegis since by that point it doesn’t really matter, or will it not be folded in since it doesn’t really matter

[pseudo vector]

debuff immunity being taken away doesn't immediately make it useless

[dull heart]

no it won't

[main falcon]

That's the alternative to the old valor trading more simple valued for a stronger dash and damage potential

[dull heart]

At that point it would be a nerf to Aegis

[sterile moss]

True, by the point you get it you’re past most of those debuffs anyway

[dull heart]

Because it would make aegis worse with Radiance

[untold chasm]

Oh true

[main falcon]

Then the ankh removal is pointless

Since the ram dash frames got alredy reduced

[pseudo vector]

[distant raft]

its pointless to add it back

[dull heart]

The only times Valor+ got any value from debuff immunity is like

• dungeon
• cultist
• post provi profaned enemies

[main falcon]

If the inmunity weren't the problems why remove them

[dull heart]

and I needed it to not get that value on cultist

[main falcon]

The dash itself alredy got nerfed

[dull heart]

So the immunity was a problem

[distant raft]

because it was part of the problem, not the sole problem

[pseudo vector]

the nerfs to dashes aren't that crazy anyways

it won't make that much of a difference

[distant raft]

the problem was that it functions as a generalist accessory with specialist effectiveness

[untold chasm]

As long as the ram dash nerf doesn’t make polterghast more annoying

[main falcon]

So what's the beneficiary for this change

[distant raft]

you won't automatically run it

[main falcon]

There's only one other shield and it doesn't get upgrades

[dull heart]

boss design in a couple spots

[dull heart]

Void Sash line

[distant raft]

when was the last time you didn't use valor the second it became available?

[main falcon]

Never

[dull heart]

high ruler is also a mega beneficiary from this

[main falcon]

It was Just like wings to me

[dull heart]

Exactly

[distant raft]

that's the problem

[dull heart]

That's the problem

[main falcon]

Yea but as I said it doesn't get upgrades

The voidsash alredy had the dodge chance value

[pseudo vector]

[untold chasm]

I mean, I think that’s also attributable to dashing being supremely dopamine inducing

[dull heart]

Yes which is why I mentioned void sash line first

[quiet spade]

Will still work with the dog?

Against *

[main falcon]

The void sash upgrades doesn't feel that great

[cinder hearth]

Alright, let me paint you a picture

Post plantera/post golem, you have three dash options.

Master ninja gear, which gives a dodge, and a normal, not bonk nor ram dash

Shield of the high ruler, which gives a bonk dash, and lower recovery frames for dashing if you bonk.

And then you have the fucking Asgard's valor, which gives a ram dash (best type of dash), knockback immunity (really useful if you don't have it), and as cherry on top, plenty of immunity to smaller debuffs.

Do you see the difference in balance between the three? With the exception of Moonlord, where you can use master ninja gear because absorber is also really good and gives the defensive stuff, and master ninja gear gives a dodge, you really have no other choice that's nearly as good as Asgard's valor.

That's why it got nerfed, both in ram dash frames, and by losing out on the small debuff immunities.

[dull heart]

Technically the Radiance line also benefits from this

[main falcon]

That's more fault of the voidsash

[dull heart]

they're also being reworked too

[main falcon]

Hopefully

[dull heart]

but to make them compete with the rams we had to WAY overtune them

[main falcon]

But the asgard nerfs then just feel done out of spite

[dull heart]

there was a point where void sash was so fast it could dash through ares laser arm lol

[cobalt wharf]

mng dodge is BROKEN AS FUCK RN and yet even still

[pseudo vector]

???

[arctic cliff]

reasonable spite

[lyric trellis]

Very balanced distance

[main falcon]

Not really

[cinder hearth]

You do understand that buffing everything to the moon isn't a viable stance for balance right

[main falcon]

Just envy

[dull heart]

void sash once could outrun ares that was funny

[pseudo vector]

asgards was just incredibly busted anyways

[main falcon]

The ramdash frame nerf is totally fine

[lyric trellis]

Ninja belt envy so true

[main falcon]

I just have problem with inmunitys

[untold chasm]

Immunities are less relevant than you think

[pseudo vector]

it'll probably end up being an inconsequential change when you get around to playing

[untold chasm]

Esp for bossfights

[main falcon]

It's makes the ram dashes more skillfully and gives around more usefullnessto the other dashes

[cinder hearth]

Oh no, golem gets to inflict me with on fire, whatever shall I do, take like 4 damage per second

[main falcon]

I refer to enemies

You arent on bosfigth 24/7

[white aurora]

just means laudanum is better now

[quiet spade]

The point is to make sure players have consistence different options at the moment to choose which one of the dashes we can use?

I'm a bit lost fr

[distant raft]

and lose natural regen

[cinder hearth]

And trigger life dew stuff

[pseudo vector]

you'll probably feel the ram dash nerf but the lack of immunities will be whatever in the long run

[cobalt wharf]

but NOT additive regen

because awesome game

[main falcon]

Yeah i get that and I think that's the point but the ram dash neft alredy accomplished that

[cinder hearth]

Ok but how debilitating is the loss of the ankh shield immunities

[quiet spade]

Yeah I think

Well on my side I always use the ninja gear no matter what role I'm playing

[pseudo vector]

again i'd wait until the update comes out because chances are the changes won't mean much in the end

[white aurora]

how many things inflict the debuffs ankh shield protects you from?

[quiet spade]

The dodge attack shit is broken

[main falcon]

All of the common ones

[untold chasm]

Just ten years away!

[dull heart]

The only times Valor+ got any value from debuff immunity is like

• dungeon
• cultist
• post provi profaned enemies

[quiet spade]

-cold

[main falcon]

Enemies can't inflict cold

[cobalt wharf]

profaned enemies?

[arctic cliff]

That imo was the BIGGEST issue

[quiet spade]

Not cold, like ice or

I don't remember the name

[distant raft]

chilled?

[main falcon]

Frostbite

[pseudo vector]

frostbite is a pretty inconsequential debuff

[distant raft]

because chilled is from

[quiet spade]

STAY STILL

The debuf

[dull heart]

Oh anahita

I didn't know that

[quiet spade]

Not chilled, the one that slows down (that is also bad)

The one that doesn't let you move

[dull heart]

Anyway the immunities being on a must have accessory was BAD

[distant raft]

eidolists inflict frozen

[dull heart]

it meant I couldn't actually use any debuffs when I wanted to

Before most players would already have immunity built in

[distant raft]

it sucks to have to comb though the articles because frozen doesn't have its own page on the cal wiki

[main falcon]

Then you cound have used the trinity of master gear

[dull heart]

what

[quiet spade]

W

[dull heart]

I meant like use them from a designing boss or enemies standpoint

[main falcon]

Ah

I thought you meant builds that used debuffs

[dull heart]

This is also why warmth no longer reduces Chilled or Frozen

I reworked cultist ice mist to be better and rely on chilled and frozen

valor line existing made that an attack I could not have done

[main falcon]

Ankh didn't protect against that

[dull heart]

Valor did though

Ankh blocks chilled

[main falcon]

Then remove that

[dull heart]

Ornate blocked frozen

[quiet spade]

You saw me leaking that Yharon won't have a maid dress and really wanted me to 𝘀𝘂𝗳𝗳𝗲𝗿

[main falcon]

I don't think ankh blocked chilled

When was that

[quiet spade]

No, it doesn't

[quiet spade]

WHAT

[distant raft]

it doesnt actually give immunity to burning

[quiet spade]

When the fuck

[distant raft]

just hot rock

[white aurora]

there are really not that many enemies that inflict the debuffs ankh protects you from ngl, like there are enemies that you would be fighting at the tier you get valor but most of the debuffs are from enemies that should give you no trouble at all

[quiet spade]

Yeah because of the obsidian skull but

In which part of the damn tree

[distant raft]

nothing in vanilla gives immunity to the debuff itself

[main falcon]

None

[quiet spade]

Does it have something to do with the chilled thing

[distant raft]

and i don't think anything in cal does either

[main falcon]

Just ankh

[quiet spade]

The gloves

[valid crypt]

Mittens maybe?

[dull heart]

They added chilled from the snow mitt

[white aurora]

doesn't the one accessory from presents do that

[valid crypt]

Hand warmers

[distant raft]

i mean burning

[dull heart]

but they didn't add mittens to the recipes bc Christmas lock

Hand warmers 👍

[quiet spade]

The obsidian skull(?

[distant raft]

burning is a horrid debuff

[dull heart]

I may have made burning meta

[distant raft]

gives immunity to hot rock, not burning

as seen with maso wof and eternity+ golem

[valid crypt]

Except christmas can be accessed any time via the silly frost moon

[quiet spade]

Gives immunity to burning in general

Trust

[main falcon]

Then if chilled was a problem why not just remove that instead of the whole ankh

[dull heart]

burning is 60 DPS

[distant raft]

and nuked grounded speed

[main falcon]

Chicanery

[dull heart]

because there's other debuffs Ankh blocks that we want to use, and because we wanted valor line to be focused on just the ram because a ram is such a very valuable ability

[white aurora]

correct :3

[dull heart]

To the average player removing Ankh is straight up a benefit

[main falcon]

No

[dull heart]

because valor is easier to make

And the debuff immunities change almost nothing

[quiet spade]

Thank you, I didn't want to turn on my pc to check that

[wide wadi]

The ankh shield can block petrifaction

[white aurora]

huge

[wide wadi]

[dull heart]

It uses hand mirror so yes

[quiet spade]

True

[wide wadi]

One enemy in the game uses petrificstion

[quiet spade]

Best addition ever

[pseudo vector]

petrification
a status effect only inflicted by one enemy

[wide wadi]

[white aurora]

there are 3 whole enemies that inflict broken armor

lmao

[main falcon]

Yeah do you really wanna add a boss with the bullshit debuffs of pretification or make more bosses inflict bleed

[pseudo vector]

such a massive impact on my terraria gameplay

[quiet spade]

rare enemy

[dull heart]

my intrusive thoughts just told me to put cream cheese on garlic bread

[pseudo vector]

no lmao

[main falcon]

Armour damage already replaced armour crunch in my head when figthing bosses

[dull heart]

Actually

Petrification might be worth using

[main falcon]

And you can't get an inmunity to armour damage

[white aurora]

evil

[dull heart]

it would be a very effective anti flying tool

[white aurora]

ravager :3

[main falcon]

No, you get prozen in place and lose momentum

[main falcon]

It would be just frustrating to figth

[pseudo vector]

immunity to armour damage would be genuinely game breaking lmao

[dull heart]

And you fall to the ground and die

[quiet spade]

Add it to the cultist

[white aurora]

what the fuck

[quiet spade]

What the fuck

[fathom girder]

why is wof so hallow coded

[main falcon]

It would feel unfaur

[dull heart]

I could see Ravager using petrification

[rugged goblet]

Fargos

[main falcon]

And unfun

[dull heart]

Only if is done in a bad way

[wide wadi]

The only boss I know that uses petrifaction is the Fargo boss

[white aurora]

what gave you burning??

[dull heart]

if it was on a clearly telegraphed effect that's easily available

[quiet spade]

The flames maybe(?

[dull heart]

Then it's fine

[main falcon]

The same with the silenced debuff

[pseudo vector]

an easy to dodge attack that inflicts a nasty debuff if you actually get hit

[main falcon]

Not getting to use your weapons feels awful

[distant raft]

devi does it and clearly displays a line of sight and a giant flashing medusa head and people still complain about it being undodgable

[dull heart]

like I could see Ravager limiting you to not fly more than 30 tiles off the ground

Or else you get petrified

[distant raft]

maso wof

[main falcon]

And a boss able to inflict it would be hated

[dull heart]

not actually doing that but it's an example

[valid crypt]

Sob

[distant raft]

oh yeah also the medusa sound several times before you get hit with it

[quiet spade]

Another barrier?

[main falcon]

Bleed stops natural regen

[dull heart]

Silenced is horrible because it only works on Mana

[main falcon]

I can see that one being interesting to be used in bosses

[dull heart]

I could see Cursed working in rare situations

[quiet spade]

Why won't you leave that to the reworked ravager?

[main falcon]

Was it cursed then that stopped all weapons

As 8 said

That doesn't feel challenging

Just annoying

Like you are being cheated

[quiet spade]

Bro you ok?

[distant raft]

hell she even explicitly tells you how to dodge it and people still complain

[dull heart]

does scal being invincible from a bullet hell feel like being cheated

[main falcon]

Not really

[white aurora]

they just have to implement them well its not like they're gonna just slap them on random attacks

[dull heart]

Then times you can't attack can work

Yeah

We just have to do it right

[main falcon]

But you still use your weapons

That's the boss not being able to being attacked

Not you being unable to attack while the boss is there

[distant raft]

hell medusas are even an early bird spawn in eternity mode so you're already familiar with the sound and people still complain

[main falcon]

You feel bad because you could be dealing damage but you arent

[hoary bay]

Breaking news: America joins the war after Calamitas bombs Galaxy Pearl Harbor

[earnest jewel]

It was Italy, so if anything this is overkill!

[main falcon]

Scal reduces opacity and moves to background so you can tell she is not hittable

[white aurora]

it's also really obvious how you deal with the attack if you know how medusa works lmao

[main falcon]

So you concentrate on the bullet hell

[plush carbon]

eh it's not true but fargo slander is good in my books

[white aurora]

you can still just use the ankh shield at the same time

[main falcon]

Don't speak

I didn't ask you anything

[valid crypt]

Woke lesbian jesus and normal jesus

[main falcon]

No diference

[valid crypt]

Damn

[dull heart]

Wait this was really good

[main falcon]

Yeah

Makes sense

Why wouldnt it be good

[wide wadi]

Did you toast the garlic bread

[dull heart]

Yes

[main falcon]

But to repeat myself

The reason why scal not being hittable during bullet hell is ok while cursed it's not

It's the ability to do so

You are not loosing damage because you fucked up and got inflicted with a debuff

You cant hit her anyways during that state so you concentrate on dodging

It's to help the mindset to keep the battle engaging

It's "oh it doing something so I can't attack it during it" and not "oh I could be attacking it but I can't"

[white aurora]

thats why debuffs like silence and cursed and stuff should be on things that are well telegraphed and should be a punishment for getting hit by it, because getting hit by a well telegraphed attack would be your fault

[dull heart]

Yeah

[main falcon]

It would still feel bad

[cobalt wharf]

getting hit should be removed because it feels bad

im rage baiting a little bit but you can’t really use “feels bad” as the extent of the reason it needs to be expanded more then that

[quiet spade]

I didn't want to say it

But yes

[cobalt wharf]

having it happen randomly without much reason does feel bad yes

but when used properly there’s nothing inherently wrong

i’d like to use a slowing thing from silksong as an example of how to use it well but i don’t want to spoil that

[quiet spade]

Like a very wise person said ages ago

"𝑱𝒖𝒔𝒕 𝒅𝒐𝒅𝒈𝒆."

[modern jolt]

I can actually agree with this sentiment in specific cases

[pseudo vector]

at that point its legit just
don't get hit and you won't get punished

getting hit by easy to dodge attacks being punishing makes sense to me at least

[quiet spade]

Yeah

[modern jolt]

For example, one of the fundamental issues PBG has that can make it very annoying is that you absolutely must kill its minions. On its own, that's not an issue, and the minions have a relatively predictable way of moving, however, they're tanky enough that you can sometimes end up in situations where you take too long to kill them, and it just spawns more. If that's the case, then your best bet is really to just facetank the minions to make them go away, which is annoying

I personally really dislike that the minions work like that for the reason mentioned, it just doesn't feel good when you could be attacking the boss but you have to focus on this or get hit

[white aurora]

pbg's attacks are also just fucking impossible to see sometimes

because it's all green

dark green with a green filter

[dull heart]

Yeah that's PBG's main problem

[quiet spade]

Relatable

[dull heart]

It's All Green And Black

[pseudo vector]

and occasionally red

[quiet spade]

It's existence

[modern jolt]

I can definitely understand that issue

Personally it doesn't bother me that much, but it would be nice if there was better color separation

I really just wish the minions didn't have health at all, is my issue

They're already punishing enough just by existing

[dull heart]

That wouldn't make much sense

It is a queen bee after all

also if you couldn't kill them you'd have to be hit by them

[modern jolt]

I more pose that they could be like a Crabulon pod scenario where they just die if you hit them

[dull heart]

that would kill any presence they have in the fight at all

the minions are pretty fine overall although maybe slightly too aggressive

They do encourage you to pick a crowd control weapon but that's a good thing

actually encouraging weapon variety woohoo

[modern jolt]

My issue mostly comes from a situation like

[quiet spade]

Just fix the shader or make the hittable minions more visible (?

[modern jolt]

You're close to the ground, and you need to go under PBG before it dashes at you

You really need to kill the minions

[quiet spade]

Like flashing lights, sprite fix or infernum shi

[modern jolt]

If you don't, you have to choose between getting dashed into, or facetanking the minions so they die

[dull heart]

If you put yourself in a bad position you get the consequences

That's how that works

[quiet spade]

That's also true

[dull heart]

Also you can just ram PBG when she dashes you

[modern jolt]

Okay, I guess my problem is: I have literally no idea how you're supposed to make a viable arena for this boss then

and I never have

[misty wren]

big and open

[dull heart]

I just use the vernal pass with the middle carved out

and then some platforms

Right now PBG is definitely overtuned though

[modern jolt]

Even doing that it still feels like I have that issue though, esp if I need to go down

[misty wren]

most of the time minions arent a threat usually i can just outrun them while killing them

[white aurora]

my only problem with the fight is the visibility cause for the minions you just gotta use the right weapons

[dull heart]

Yeah

[quiet spade]

But there's some clases that cannot kill the minions that easy

[dull heart]

What class can't kill the minions well?

[quiet spade]

Or weapons

[misty wren]

ngl thats just a weapon issue

ive never had that issue

[dull heart]

well weapons is a "go pick a better weapon"

[quiet spade]

Ok my bad

[dull heart]

Fishron and Empress are single target weapons

And PBG and Ravager are crowd control weapons

[modern jolt]

ig I could just be skill issue but I just don't know how to deal with the minions in PBG effectively at all

[misty wren]

piercing weapon

[open steeple]

i find pbg super fun once learned

[dull heart]

use a weapon that has large piercing/area damage

[quiet spade]

My fault for making the comment

[open steeple]

but pbg is probably harder than provi on tier id say

[modern jolt]

In my last playthrough I used Forbidden Sun and it felt like the best option I've tried, but it always felt sketchy

[cobalt wharf]

i feel like pbg is fine in the very specific circumstances of regular playthrough with normal gear and damage but anything outside of that makes it terrible

[quiet spade]

I'm going to lore to argue about breedable demons instead

[dull heart]

Terra Blade, Snowman Cannon, Betsy's Wrath come to mind

[cobalt wharf]

not to mention ram dash skew

[white aurora]

mage has the most issue with them imo

[open steeple]

yeah but forcing very specific weapons isnt good game design

multiple options should be viable

[quiet spade]

Mage is cheesy ngl

[dull heart]

there is way more than those few

Those just come to mind

For mage PBG I used Wasp Gun

with Betsy's Wrath for support

[quiet spade]

Wasp gum

[dull heart]

but mostly wasp gun

[modern jolt]

I tried that before I settled on Forbidden Sun and that didn't feel like it was even remotely viable

They would just target PBG

[dull heart]

The wasps target whatever is closest

which is usually the minions

[cobalt wharf]

oh yeah forbidden sun is just dogshit in general isn’t it

[dull heart]

Yeah I think so

[cobalt wharf]

sad!

[modern jolt]

I have no idea what else you'd use for mage lol

[cobalt wharf]

vanilla stuff

[white aurora]

inferno fork is crazy strong in cal

[dull heart]

empress mage dropa

[white aurora]

i didn't know how fast it was

[cobalt wharf]

even like boulder staff is nice

[dull heart]

Stellar Tune or Nightglow or Razorblade Typhoon

All are good options I think

[cobalt wharf]

who is fighting pbg after eol

[dull heart]

idk

[misty wren]

people that find eol easier

[distant raft]

i remember bat scepter being decent

[dull heart]

bat scepter is VERY good

Probably the best option before any other post golem boss

[distant raft]

like even without pierce it still does damn well on pbg

[dull heart]

yeah it's just cracked in general

[cobalt wharf]

pbg does also have the fat boss problem where piercing projectiles hit multiple times and deal way more damage

[dull heart]

calamity is way too afraid to use -1 local iframes

Like 75% of our weapons or more should be using them

[lyric trellis]

Fat boss problem 💔

[cobalt wharf]

not even -1 just like. 20 or something.

is enough

[lyric trellis]

Aureus and Levi dr incidents

[dull heart]

20 would have no reason to happen

unless you need it to rehit

a lot of the minions should also be moved to -1 local that's reset as part of the attack pattern, like Terraprisma has

[cobalt wharf]

i like it when my gravity affected projectile goes through the enemy into the sky and hits on the way down

that’s peak

[dull heart]

okay make the -1 reset when it hits the apex

I did that for Eradicator rework

[cobalt wharf]

then it hits twice when you space it

[modern jolt]

I think I'm realizing, I might just be fucking stupid when it comes to Jungle bosses bc both PBG and Yharon I had tremendous problems just setting up a proper arena to fight them, based on what I've heard here

[cobalt wharf]

can’t win

[dull heart]

it hits twice if you don't space it too

just more spread out

[cobalt wharf]

not talking about eradicator but in my boulder staff example

[misty wren]

yharon ismt even a jungle boss

[dull heart]

but yeah

There are some times where not using -1 makes sense

but a lot of them should be -1

[cobalt wharf]

the fat boss issue isn’t really an issue when you don’t have humongous boss sprites anyways byeah

[modern jolt]

I really like the idea of PBG and really just the Plague in general

I think I just have a very negative connotation about post-Golem cause for a very long time it's been fucking awful to go through in most playthroughs

There's a lot of things I really dislike about post-Golem

Mostly with vanilla bosses, I'd say

Also with the events, but then again I don't know if anyone's ever actually liked Pumpkin Moon or Frost Moon very much

[dense sundial]

They’re vanilla events which are like

Nothing needs to be said

[halcyon seal]

I really like post golem honestly

I don’t think pbg is that bad

Like obviously it can be a whole lot better but

It’s no ravager

[open steeple]

pbg is fun imo

rav is dogshit

[halcyon seal]

Which is the only post golem boss I actually dislike lol

[modern jolt]

Oh tbf PBG isn't a bad boss post-Golem, I just have specific issues with it

[open steeple]

imo cryogen should be retiered personally

[modern jolt]

I also think Ravager is like, fine, it's not very interesting, but it's not unforgivable

[halcyon seal]

Betsy is pretty cool

Fishron and Empress are incredible

[open steeple]

extremely complex fight for how early on you are supposed to fight them

[halcyon seal]

And Cultist, honestly I like him a lot more than I probably should

[open steeple]

and they are very tanky

[modern jolt]

I'd say most often, there's about a 60% chance I quit a playthrough on either Cultist or ML

[dense sundial]

The complexity is having a ton of phases and patterns for no reason but the boss only has like 4? attacks

[vivid hemlock]

ravager is up with current dog as the worst bosses in the mod i think

[open steeple]

theres a lot of phases yeah

like its more phases than yharon i think

and yharon is a complex boss

[modern jolt]

Especially when I used to only do Tank build

[halcyon seal]

I think it’s weird to call ravager the worst calamity boss but it is my least favorite

[dense sundial]

Yharon has 7

Cryo has 7 tops

[modern jolt]

This is probably a hot take:

[halcyon seal]

Like the worst calamity boss is masdeath sprime or masdeath plant imo

But like, what can you even say about Ravager

[modern jolt]

Despite basically just being a Golem clone, Ravager is a better boss than Golem

Golem is fucking bad.

[halcyon seal]

It’s the boss that literally nobody likes, and you can’t really dislike it either?

[open steeple]

yharon is only like 5 if on death tbh

[modern jolt]

The only thing that makes Golem tolerable is that Calamity is nice enough to give you a proper sized area to fight him

[dense sundial]

Ravager is less bad than Golem because Fabsol manually made Golem this bad

[modern jolt]

I am VERY appreciative that you have that arena

but it does not make Golem itself any less cringe

[dense sundial]

Vanilla Golem is aight

[open steeple]

golem is shit

[dense sundial]

I think

[modern jolt]

Vanilla Golem is kind of weird imo

It's a bizarre fight

Not helped bc the arena is terrible

[halcyon seal]

Vanilla golem would be a lot better if he wasn’t the 3rd last boss in main progression

He was the final boss for a WHILE there

[modern jolt]

I actually like Golem conceptually but it's another boss kind of like Prime imo where people are very prone to overtune it and make it garbage

[open steeple]

prime is annoying

the fucking skulls on death mode have an insane turn speed

[modern jolt]

There do exist great versions of Golem

[dense sundial]

You can overtune anything if you try hard enough

[modern jolt]

but like the Calamity one is def not a good time

I hate Cultist for p much the same reason, it feels super overtuned

Also it spams a really annoying attack that's just bad even by vanilla's standards

I will give credit though, EoL is peak

They cooked, and I think it's actually very fortunate that Fab just didn't touch Empress at all, judging from what I've seen

[dense sundial]

No, he did

[modern jolt]

Duke is also kind of peak

[dense sundial]

Cal EoL doesn’t oneshot at daytime, she holds position harder and even further away, she attacks a ways faster, and she’s not patterned

[modern jolt]

Oh I see

[dense sundial]

Done asked Fab to make EoL stay closer to make true melee physically usable against her and he did precisely the opposite

[modern jolt]

Yeah tbf the only reason I have a good perspective of EoL is probably because I've never done a Tank playthrough while EoL was a thing

Most of my cope has come from primarily focusing melee weapons with Tank

Traditionally, there are a lot of bosses that are quite miserable doing this

[fringe quiver]

eol didn't need any changes at all to be honest shes already like

the best boss in vanilla

by a mile

dont fix what's not broken bros

[modern jolt]

Oh yeah definitely, EoL is really good

[quiet spade]

True

[modern jolt]

Even in Vanilla it def stands out

[fringe quiver]

the fabsol touch ruins all ...

[modern jolt]

I mean, I like vanilla Duke, and I'm fine with vanilla Golem and ML

Cultist is the most nothingslop boss ever lol

EoL is quite remarkable

[fringe quiver]

fabsol on his way to make every bossfight ever a rungod

[quiet spade]

But what was the change

I fight it and it's... Quite the same but with more swords in screen

(?

[dense sundial]

.

[modern jolt]

Real talk

Calamity Twins peaks

Twins my true goat, no matter how bad smth is I know Twins always gives me a fun time

[quiet spade]

Is that it? I'm too used to be too far from the vanilla EoL that I didn't notice

[stone fiber]

Hey guys, so we'll be getting new sprites for the Celestus projectiles and Cosmic Immaterializer minion eventually, right?
Or is this going to wait until the miracle weapons rework?

[hushed hazel]

i mean probably

would be weird if they stayed the same when miracle matter gets its redesign

[stone fiber]

Okay but imagine if 1.4.5 releases before SSO and it gets delayed another couple of months
That'd be hilarious

[quiet spade]

Miracle matter will get a redesign too?

Why?

It's gorgeous

[hushed hazel]

the devs don't like how it looks rn

[quiet spade]

Well, it's a cube... With a tail

But I don't know, it doesn't look bad

[molten grove]

mostly the gear

[hushed hazel]

specifically how vague and disjointed the weapons look design wise

[modern jolt]

tbf I do find Miracle Matter confusing

[dense sundial]

And ginormous

[quiet spade]

So only the miracle matter or all the miracle matter related things will get a redesign ?

[modern jolt]

Draedon specifies that it's basically just a soup of materials that you happened to stabilize

[hushed hazel]

[molten grove]

relateds

[quiet spade]

Hi Yuh, good afternoon

[modern jolt]

but it looks really bizarre

ig tbf, wtf do you sprite "matter" to look like in this case

[quiet spade]

Cube

With tail

[modern jolt]

but it's like multiple cubes

[quiet spade]

It's confusing, yes I agree

But not ugly

[modern jolt]

Well no, I don't think it looks bad

It's just strange

[keen zodiac]

wouldnt the thing sorta look like shadowspec bar in some vein?

[quiet spade]

If they forgor to reesprite it, I wouldn't be mad

[modern jolt]

I do agree with the sentiment tho that miracle weapons are wildly varied looking

Probably too much so

[quiet spade]

I'm really trying to see any type of figure in the miracle matter, but I just can't

I only can see cube

With tail

[quiet spade]

None of them look alike

[hushed hazel]

not even just that they look wildly varied, the issue the devs have raised is how the design of the weapons don't really make sense material wise

[quiet spade]

Where do you see the shadowspec

[modern jolt]

They look really cool but they don't really match what I would imagine "Draedon weapons" to be

[stone fiber]

Why?
(Is it because something something final update?)

[hushed hazel]

like there's roots and crystals and fire that are inexplicably part of the same thing because ?

[modern jolt]

I mean ig they're not really Draedon's weapons, but they are clearly meant to be like an alternative to them

[hushed hazel]

they're not really draedon weapons

you're the one who invents miracle matter, after all

[modern jolt]

True

and Draedon does remark that if you hadn't stabilized it, it would basically just be a bunch of bullshit you put together

[quiet spade]

True

[modern jolt]

which in some way that is what it looks like

[quiet spade]

In the narrated way, it's accurate

That's how it's supposed to look like

Because of the context

[modern jolt]

I do like that it's canon that you are an absolute master smith

[quiet spade]

Master smith:

God's matter soup

[modern jolt]

ig you kind of have to be to work with Cosmilite and fragments from the Auric Dragon

Or Auric Ore, for that matter

[quiet spade]

Wasn't draedon who created all the cosmolite gear n stuff?

[vivid hemlock]

nope

[keen zodiac]

supernovic-maelstrom

[quiet spade]

Elaborate

[vivid hemlock]

draedon didnt make any of the cosmilite weapons or armor the player has

[quiet spade]

I remember reading it somewhere that draedon was in the creation of the original cosmolite gear, principally the armor set

[modern jolt]

Well he made DoG's armor plating, didn't he?

[quiet spade]

That's what I mean

Kinda

[modern jolt]

I believe that was what he made specifically, which I think he did use Cosmilite for

[vivid hemlock]

dog's armor is nothing like what we make

[modern jolt]

Yeah I was gonna say that too, DoG is massive

[quiet spade]

We're doing reverse psychology to make our own armor

[modern jolt]

Idk how big the player is but I mean by reference DoG must be at least like... 50 feet in diameter or smth

He has huge ass armor plates that are prob entirely different from what you would make

[quiet spade]

I'm not entirely saying that he made the armor itself that we use, I'm talking about the original idea

The idea where the armor came from, the dog

The dog's armor

[modern jolt]

Okay but what I can't wait to see is the peak DoG dialogue in the update

[quiet spade]

Is there any spoiler about how long will it be?

It just says extended

But how much

[modern jolt]

Oh I have no idea

I just know they said while talking about DoG's revamp that they expanded his dialogue

[potent scroll]

Yharon crying in the corner once more

(insert parent holding her children (DoG) in the water and the skeleton in underwater (Yharon))

[quiet spade]

Yharon, not today... The dog needs another reesprite

[potent scroll]

They not touched yharon since he came out 💔

He still has duke fishron ai

[quiet spade]

There's no need

He's cute like that

Our beloved chicken

[potent scroll]

The big chicken nugget with wings

[quiet spade]

Yeee

[potent scroll]

Thats why he drops 4912 chicken nugget

[quiet spade]

The fact that you can calculate how big is yharon irl with the chicken nuggets that he drops is hilarious

[potent scroll]

Wait fr? 😭

[quiet spade]

I wonder if he'll still drop chicken after the rework

[potent scroll]

Probaly not or idk

[quiet spade]

Just take the avarage size of a chicken nugget and make the calculations

[potent scroll]

Honestly i dont know how many chicken nugget you can make from a Chicken :d

The update will be so

MASSIVE

Its not even update anymore

They reworked the whole mod

[quiet spade]

Regular chicken? Like 65

You can imagine

[potent scroll]

Does its mean wait

[quiet spade]

Divide 4912 / 65

Yharon is 75.56 chickens on size

Avarage

[potent scroll]

So its also does means is Yharon Weight is equal with 75 chicken?

Its not sounds alot for a dragon

[stiff light]

no

[quiet spade]

We're not counting with the things that doesn't convert into chicken nuggets

Like the peak or some other parts

[potent scroll]

a

[stiff light]

do you think they use every part of the chicken

for nuggets

[quiet spade]

It's only an approximation

[quiet spade]

That's what I'm saying

[stiff light]

also its probably just a random number of nuggets he drops

or a niche refernece

[potent scroll]

Nah im forgot about organs and others

[quiet spade]

Nobody knows

[quiet spade]

Yep

[potent scroll]

Its Always 4.9k

[quiet spade]

And bones

Let's take this as the size/weight for the muscle and similar

Removing bones weight, peak, etc

[potent scroll]

So only the meat part?

[quiet spade]

Yep

[stiff light]

not even all the meat

[quiet spade]

There's some parts that can't be chicken nuggets

[stiff light]

30-40% of the chicken is nuggetable

go crazy guys

[potent scroll]

Let's say just the breast part of the chicken because thats where chicken has the most meat

[quiet spade]

I'm just doing an approximation of the weight/size because I'm bored

[stiff light]

you know you can just google

[quiet spade]

Is not that easy

[stiff light]

it is

[quiet spade]

Let me do a quick calculation

[quiet spade]

In my research

It's 55 to 60% of the chicken meat

That can be nugget

If it's used precisely

And if we take on data that

Just with the nuggets that he drop

It's 75 chickens on scale

[stiff light]

only white chicken meat can be used to make nuggets

[quiet spade]

We can say that

[stiff light]

unless ur a freak

[quiet spade]

The ACTUAL yharon is

[quiet spade]

DON'T

Let me cook

One sec

[stiff light]

but im right

[potent scroll]

Are we count the white slime from the Bones what also used to make chicken nugget because in my country they not count as meat

[quiet spade]

Yes

[stiff light]

the what

bone marrow?

[quiet spade]

Cartilage, everything that is not bone and it's edible

[stiff light]

bone is edible

its just calcium

most of it isnt even that hard

squishy on the inside

[quiet spade]

But it's not used to make kichen nig

Chicken nuggets

[potent scroll]

Not from inside the Bone but the white slime like stuff on the Bone after you removed the meat

[stiff light]

cartilage?

[potent scroll]

I dont know how its called in english 😔

Just a second

[quiet spade]

I'm back

From my calculations

[potent scroll]

Its called

[quiet spade]

Que cosa pa

[potent scroll]

Mechanically separated meat

(even if its actually not real meat)

[quiet spade]

What

[vale finch]

[quiet spade]

It's a chicken, not a tesla

[stiff light]

do you think meat is removed by hand

[potent scroll]

Thats how its called :d

[quiet spade]

HE LIT EXPLODES

[stiff light]

i dont even eat allat

i eat plants

and mushroom

and egg

[quiet spade]

Anyway, I made some calculations and research properly and all of that, I get to a... Approximate

Length: 30m
With wings to the sides: 45m
Weight: 1,080,000kg

[stiff light]

are you assuming hes a square

[quiet spade]

Man I won't take the square root just because

[stiff light]

what

[quiet spade]

I took a chicken as an example

[modern jolt]

There is no way Yharon is 1200 tons

[stiff light]

he isnt

[quiet spade]

He big

[stiff light]

buildings weigh that much

[modern jolt]

He's not bigger than Leviathan, which is whale

[quiet spade]

If we took the game sizes we're not going anywhere

[stiff light]

he could not fly if he was 1200 tonnes

[modern jolt]

and the average whale does not weigh even close to that much

[quiet spade]

IT'S A CHICKEN DRAGON

Where do you see the logic there m8

[stiff light]

its just a dragon

[quiet spade]

We're fighting gods in the mod

[dusk bronze]

new yharon is almost as big

[potent scroll]

If you Search on Yharon size you just get more confused

[quiet spade]

With Scissors

[stiff light]

ok?

[potent scroll]

Wow new Yharon going to be much larger

[stiff light]

physics still exists

[quiet spade]

That drop chicken

[potent scroll]

Pretty sure Leviathan is press more than a normal whale

[stiff light]

im going to remove myself from this conversation

[quiet spade]

Yeah leviathan is bigg

[stiff light]

goodbye

[potent scroll]

Goodbies

[quiet spade]

Why does it fly though

[quiet spade]

It was a pleasure

[potent scroll]

Anahita's magic?

[quiet spade]

Fair enough

[modern jolt]

tbf I assume Leviathan's actual size is probably an undershoot only because it would be impractical for it to be actually whale-sized

[mystic eagle]

No it's her actual size

[quiet spade]

Agree

[quiet spade]

Leviathan is a she?

[modern jolt]

I mean I don't disagree that is Leviathan's size

but it probably isn't bigger because it'd be impractical

[dusk bronze]

you can't assume that the npcs don't actually look like what they look like

[quiet spade]

It's already uncomfortable fighting it with that size

[mystic eagle]

Yes

[ocean jetty]

clearly this means we need a real Fovos resprite to show his true size

[dusk bronze]

true

[modern jolt]

I was about to say that

Isn't Fovos fucking massive?

[ocean jetty]

yeah

technically hes supposed to be

[modern jolt]

Like, 10x that size at least

[ocean jetty]

bit small on our end

[quiet spade]

Yeah

[earnest jewel]

He shrunk in the wash.

Or he's really far away.

[stiff light]

you can tell because she vomits balls of dirt

[dusk bronze]

no??

what

[quiet spade]

That's what I'm talking about, the game is not fair with the sizes on screen

[dusk bronze]

he just had legs and a cranium before

[quiet spade]

Yharon can be as big as I said

But other bosses can be

Much

Much bigger

[ocean jetty]

xzier

[stiff light]

stop talking about yharon

[dusk bronze]

wut

[ocean jetty]

can u check the doc rq and can u tell me if the story synposis looks good

[dusk bronze]

alr

[quiet spade]

Yeah, every woman I know do that

[stiff light]

how many do u know

[quiet spade]

Redacted

[mystic eagle]

The guide is around 1.8 metres tall
The leviathan is around 10.25x as tall as him = 18.45 metres tall
The leviathan is in 100:45 format so she's 2.22(etc) times as wide as she's tall
18.45 × 2.22(etc) = 41 metres

So she's got a length of 41 metres and is 18.45 metres tall

That's far larger than the largest blue whale ever recorded

[quiet spade]

I need sources

[earnest jewel]

A block is 2 feet.

[dull heart]

Why didn't you just measure the pixels

[pulsar cobalt]

each pixel in terraria is 3 inches

youre welcome

go do the calculations yourself

LITERALLY

[stiff light]

im 4 pixels tall

[pulsar cobalt]

count the pixels

[quiet spade]

Not the game sizes

[modern jolt]

So how much would Leviathan weigh then?

[quiet spade]

It's more complicated like that

[earnest jewel]

That is the source.

[modern jolt]

I can accept I'm wrong and Leviathan is probably bigger than a whale

[stiff light]

we dont really know

[modern jolt]

I mean tbf, I've never seen a whale

[mystic eagle]

Screw you

[stiff light]

presumably he is 3D

[quiet spade]

We're (i) trying to make it real

[modern jolt]

and I also don't know how big a whale is compared to a person, I mean it's not a piece of information that comes up often

[stiff light]

and we dont know his chemical composition

[potent scroll]

What about the exa mech bosses? Ares

[mystic eagle]

The leviathan is 675 inches tall

[quiet spade]

Nah surely leviathan itself is big as hell

[stiff light]

woah im smaller

[mystic eagle]

1503 inches wide

[stiff light]

tall queen

fat queen

[mystic eagle]

Time to put this in a converter as american methodology is a myth to me

[quiet spade]

Time to make my research

[stiff light]

5280 inches in a mile

if that helps

[quiet spade]

Meters please

[stiff light]

real globers can convert kilometers to miles

[mystic eagle]

38.2 metres wide
17.1 metres tall

Still far larger than any blue whale ever

[quiet spade]

My attempt to make yharon real made my brain dizzy

[stiff light]

oh wait its 5280 feet in a mile

[mystic eagle]

1 mile is 1.609 kilometers

[stiff light]

not inches

[stiff light]

so smart

[potent scroll]

Its probaly a joke item but in thorium there an enemy called "whale" but its like double size of the player

[stiff light]

if knew yharons 3 dimension i could probably calculate his weight

[quiet spade]

Take your award
🍗

[stiff light]

i dont know how that does anything

[quiet spade]

No, the size of a whale whale is not the double of a person

[quiet spade]

Take approximation of it

[stiff light]

also i dont want to

[potent scroll]

You make her fight with the nameless 💔

[quiet spade]

Undertandable

[quiet spade]

No way that's right

Let me change it

[mystic eagle]

Bossrush*

[stiff light]

big wyrm

[potent scroll]

Its my personal canon

[stiff light]

i wish i had a cannon

[quiet spade]

Pirate sells one

[potent scroll]

Nameless make more sense

[stiff light]

xeroc btw

but u dont really care

[quiet spade]

Nameless is not xeroc

[stiff light]

yea but nameless is already a thing

u can fight

and nameless like was xeroc

[dry whale]

gives you a cannon

[mystic eagle]

Yes but Xeroc is smart enough to not fight you

[stiff light]

thankss maxie

[dry whale]

youre welcome bestie

shoot everyone

[stiff light]

im going to launch myself into the sky

[dry whale]

oh okay that works too

[quiet spade]

Technically is xeroc
Practically... Not much

This is a very spoilery chat

[potent scroll]

He knows the terrarian would use him as platinum farm just like does with other bosses 💔

[dry whale]

nameless is not xeroc it was born as an interpretation of old more xeroc and grew to be its own thing

basically nd isnt xeroc at all

[native thistle]

Calamity mod in 5

[earnest jewel]

Years.

[dry whale]

wdym

more like 5 decades

minimum

[dusk bronze]

calamity mod in 5 fargo decades

[stiff light]

4

[potent scroll]

Just 50 eternity away

[quiet spade]

If I'm not wrong, xeroc became the deity and the xeroc that we know right now in the present is just a human being named after it

[dry whale]

what

nameless is not canon to the lore

[stiff light]

let them live

[dry whale]

and in wotg it is just a thing that exists in every universe

[stiff light]

in their own mind

[potent scroll]

Nameless is creator of the universe

[dry whale]

true..

[earnest jewel]

Yeah, nothing to do with Xeroc.

[dry whale]

yeah that

idk about wotg lore that much

and xeroc is a guy

a really strong guy

[earnest jewel]

If I remember right, Nameless Deity is basically just God.

[dry whale]

who absorbed zeratros soul

[distant raft]

xeroc

[dry whale]

yeah something like that

[modern jolt]

Didn't Nameless Deity start out being named Xeroc?

[dry whale]

like just onnipotent god

[modern jolt]

In the mod, not the lore

[earnest jewel]

In development I think.

[stiff light]

when did i get demoted

[earnest jewel]

But they changed direction.

[quiet spade]

I miss explain

[earnest jewel]

When you started the good arc.

[distant raft]

but yeah nameless is a creator deity

[stiff light]

oh

[distant raft]

same with aoe

[earnest jewel]

Nameless Deity is from fanfiction.

[stiff light]

area of effect

[modern jolt]

So Nameless has no relation to Xeroc in WotG?

[dry whale]

aoe is the nd of a dead universe iirc

[quiet spade]

Wasn't it the most powerful of the gods that ascended later?

[earnest jewel]

Nope.

[earnest jewel]

No.

[earnest jewel]

None.

[dry whale]

no nd is just god

[quiet spade]

But with the new xeroc pré ascended form, what does that mean?

[modern jolt]

Damn. My whole headcanon of that shit was wrong af

[quiet spade]

Pré

[earnest jewel]

Again, Nameless Deity is literally just God, like from the Bible.

[dry whale]

xeroc is not nd

[valid crypt]

Nameless is not xeroc

[earnest jewel]

Xeroc was a human.

[dry whale]

different beings

[valid crypt]

Seperate characters

[modern jolt]

I mean don't get me wrong, Nameless Deity is really awesome

Same with Avatar

They're both super awesome

[earnest jewel]

And it's also basically from a fanfic.

[quiet spade]

Yeah... And ascended with the soul of the most powerful dragon, right?

[potent scroll]

Just look our Christianity, god created the world (Nameless) but we dont know who created the god, or he created himself

[earnest jewel]

Yes.

[dry whale]

yeah

[valid crypt]

Yea

[earnest jewel]

I mean, God does have a name, Nameless Deity is a composite of multiple religious interpretations of the concept of God.

[quiet spade]

So I'm right there, let place a pin for latter

There will be a pre ascended form in the mod right?

[dry whale]

probably not

[earnest jewel]

No.

[potent scroll]

Peak design

[dry whale]

they are ascended

[valid crypt]

Prob not

[earnest jewel]

Xeroc ascended 850 years ago.

[quiet spade]

And what with the teaser

[valid crypt]

Xeroc ascended centuries ago

[dry whale]

and you cant time travel

[quiet spade]

I got exited for nothing or what

[earnest jewel]

You won't be able to encounter their old self without a time machine.

[dry whale]

maybe you'll see it outside the game

[quiet spade]

The art thing

The guy

Holding spear

Looking badass

[dry whale]

thats a concept art

[valid crypt]

Yeah thats not gonna be in the game despite looking badass

[quiet spade]

But it's in the paper

[hushed hazel]

i mean

[quiet spade]

Right?

[earnest jewel]

There's also pre-ascension Silva, who also won't be appearing since she's a goddess now. And turned into goop.

She's fine.

[quiet spade]

Don't break my dreams like that

[dry whale]

yea

[quiet spade]

But Providence...

[hushed hazel]

there was talks of a historian npc who could show some concept art in-game or something along those lines right

[quiet spade]

Is a goddess

[earnest jewel]

What about Providence?

[dry whale]

I mean there can be some pre ascension xerox addon idk

[quiet spade]

And appears

And

...

Fight

[dry whale]

oh what

[earnest jewel]

We don't know what human Providence looked like.

[quiet spade]

Burn wings

[dry whale]

haven't heard of that

maybe beacuse I was dead for months