calamity-update-talk

[fathom girder]

Probably!

DoG as a whole is just an enabler boss atm

half his gear is useless and the boss itself is mid

"just put the event upgrades in the bag" ass boss

[rich ginkgo]

im british and i couldnt care less about britain im ngl

[earnest jewel]

I'm sorry to hear that.

[rich ginkgo]

yeah trust me i know

[dull heart]

maybe I should make a new dog drop tier list

[earnest jewel]

So many in this server suffer every day from that condtion.

[fathom girder]

actually, question

[misty wren]

deathhail was almost my ticket to post dog infinite range bullshit but alas it doesnt have infinite range 😔 instead i had to use ice barrage

[fathom girder]

will the stratus set of items be useful up to postgame?

[dull heart]

stratus sphere and Sirius might be yes

[fathom girder]

ooo

neat

[dull heart]

I could see Galileo finding use too

Well, Stratus Sphere will definitely be useful for the rest of forever

[fathom girder]

I only ask because I woulda suggested a classless postgame upgrade or weapon related to the stratus stuff if it wasn't up to snuff

[dull heart]

that falls into needing more sprites

which I want to avoid as much as possible

[fathom girder]

Become triangle 2

can't be that hard... ..

[dull heart]

spriters have a lot they have to do with the sunken sea

still

[fathom girder]

Kinda surprised but also kinda not surprised

[lapis oak]

what is a weapon that looks like a scythe shape

[dull heart]

Life hunt scythe

[lapis oak]

transforming one of those into Scythe Claws from Dead Cells

it's peak

[dull heart]

No

[fathom girder]

You really want scythe claws

[lapis oak]

it's peak

[fathom girder]

they get you KILLED in dead cells

all my homies hate survival weapons at high BC

[lapis oak]

🥱 tank build in 5BC is OP

[fathom girder]

until the malaise ruins you after 4 hits

[lapis oak]

no I'm not joking it's actually real

nope

[fathom girder]

what mutations

[lapis oak]

wait should go in #general-talk

[dull heart]

currently the whole Stratus set is just waiting on like 2 sprites for example

[fathom girder]

I see

[dull heart]

starbursts + cooldown icon

but people are busy and it's not high priority

[lapis oak]

#assets-needed

[dull heart]

anyway I had a peak idea for Necklace of Vexation

[summer shore]

This vexes me

[neat dock]

this necklaces me

[summer shore]

This is just that one ranged weapon

Onto despoiler or whatever

[lapis oak]

what

no it's not

tupid

[summer shore]

Yes it is

Alternate between using left clicks and right clicks to maximize damage

[lapis oak]

which is not something Despoiler do

it's like saying you and blub blub blub 🫧 🐠 are the same thing

u are just blub blub blub 🫧 🐠

[stuck kite]

flop

[summer shore]

Close enough

Stupiri

[dull heart]

This is just gilded Proboscis (not really)

but kinda

[boreal pewter]

This is just Hellborn

[lapis oak]

tupid

go eat bubbles

[summer shore]

nuh uh

[lapis oak]

🫧 🐠 !!!

[summer shore]

kiri when no valid arguments

[dull heart]

true

[fathom girder]

this is just copper shortsword

[ivory elk]

almost done

[lapis oak]

wait a minute that's not Clamity

[strong isle]

Fuck.

[white aurora]

rainlamity world

[strong isle]

It sent here accidentally, then

[lapis oak]

stip you will know pain from the depth of hell

[white aurora]

new secret cal lore unlocked

[strong isle]

For context, that was an artpiece from the Rain World Discord server I intended to save

It did not work out (too heavy)

[ocean jetty]

on a roll today stip

[strong isle]

So true

[cold breach]

guys I just got the best item in the game after beating calamity, ||Rock|| Now what?

[molten grove]

collect 4 more rocks

[cold breach]

true

[molten grove]

offer still up btw

[cold breach]

ur adding peter griffin

wait do you guys think peter griffin could solo the boss rush?

[molten grove]

idk if hes beating aureus

otherwise maybe

[cold breach]

nah he could totally solo aureus

doesn't need to lift a finger

[rich ginkgo]

idk

[ivory elk]

SSO in 2 months

[rich ginkgo]

the fact that it'll be delayed when silksong is out

[ivory elk]

or SSO is actualy silksong

[rich ginkgo]

which might be like, tomorrow

[molten grove]

all messages offer something

[rich ginkgo]

like are we talking yesterdays messages too

[molten grove]

start from here, end with the original offer message

[rich ginkgo]

there's this

okay wait

[ivory elk]

"Perhaps I give it, Silksong" its so peak

[rich ginkgo]

silksong reference

in sso

[molten grove]

nyope

[rich ginkgo]

wait

that one coral biome in silksong

[molten grove]

remember, every message contributes

[rich ginkgo]

wtf

[stuck kite]

hornet is already in terraria

pack it up

[rich ginkgo]

"Perhaps"
"I can"
"Give it"
"at least 2 months"

cracked the code

sso in 2 motnhs gg

[molten grove]

it is unrelated to the release date of SSO or silksong

[rich ginkgo]

i mean there's the fact that you just confirmed sso will NOT be released within the next 2 months

[ivory elk]

"Perhaps, I more 2 silksong see silksong rough now"

[shut ridge]

I can't believe they're finally adding Yharim in two months

[ivory elk]

Yharim tomorrow?

[rich ginkgo]

bro wants me to start rearranging the letters

[terse dew]

no

[shut ridge]

reading comprehension of an actual ant /j

[rich ginkgo]

im fully committed now hold on, let me lock in

[rich ginkgo]

im locking in dude hold on trust me

my next guess is gonna be the one

ok i have no clue

[shut ridge]

wtf are we gonna do without wizadam

[ivory elk]

Guys i figured it out

basically it translates to, SSO never because Yharim tomorrow

[molten grove]

yall wouldnt survive a day in silksong or deltarune theorycrafting hell

[rich ginkgo]

"Rough" = rock = xeroc
xeroc + 2 months

xeroc released in 2 months

that's gotta be it

[molten grove]

every message

[ivory elk]

I already figured it out its ok

[rich ginkgo]

pig is nerf??

wtf does that even mean

[molten grove]

gg

[ivory elk]

g

g

[rich ginkgo]

wow i got it right but it doesnt even make sense

[ivory elk]

pig =/= bacon

[molten grove]

some will make sense of it

[ivory elk]

gg

[shut ridge]

look guys this must mean that king slime is being reworked into a superboss

[molten grove]

coming to SSO !

[rich ginkgo]

they're nerfing 💔

[ivory elk]

sorry, thats gonna be delayed by another DoG rework

[rich ginkgo]

i swear im not that stupid i just thought the first letter of every message was too predictable and easy

[ivory elk]

Wait so me taking every first word as a silksong joke was unironically that close

[rich ginkgo]

true reverse psychology

[ivory elk]

It really all does lead back to silksong tomorrow doesnt it

[rich ginkgo]

the spoiler will be hidden so well because it'll just be the first letter of each message and everyone will think "why wouldi t ever be that it's too simple" so NO ONE goes for it

wow, this is genius

truly state of the art

techniques

[ivory elk]

He silkbaited me

[rich ginkgo]

ummm actuawwy a day and 10 hours

because the "special announcement" is august 21st at 8 am

in my time

[ivory elk]

I need to make a Yharim tomorrow meme but I need a format

[molten grove]

i was merely testing the s
if I really wanted it to stay hidden I'd have at least put a caesar cipher on it

[ivory elk]

I would have just kept rage baiting to see if you would give up the ruse

[molten grove]

but yeah, Pig Is Nerf

[lapis oak]

10 gold coins down to...?

[ivory elk]

9g 99 silver

[rich ginkgo]

oh im a pro at caesar cipher

my friends ex used to send me hidden messages through caesar cipher

i dont know why considering the hidden messages were like "im hanging out with your friend today"

but

im good at that now

[stuck kite]

hydrate...

[summer shore]

Sunken hydration

[atomic bay]

testing the waters? sunken sea update confirmed

[silk terrace]

no...

[stuck kite]

10

or 0

think about it

[lapis oak]

😔

[thorny glacier]

changelogs tomorrow

[silk terrace]

but we already have changelogs yesterday

[stuck kite]

its changelogging somewhere else

[molten grove]

you children are ungrateful, you're being stuffed into a cornucopia

[sharp cargo]

Ey you're not gonna do anything right :D?

[rich ginkgo]

hey maybe if we all just shut up about changelogs and sso we get them tomorrow

i stopped watching primacon videos 2 months ago and what do you know, silksong tomorrow

[silk terrace]

holy FUCK I forgot SIlksong is TOMORROW

[molten grove]

still 2 days for me 😢

[fringe quiver]

big dave tommorow

[silk terrace]

like TOMORROW TOMORROW actually tomorrow oh fuck I forgor

[ivory elk]

[sharp cargo]

What does that mean

[ivory elk]

Im definetly not animating Yharim's face for the eyebrows and smile which will mean im nearly done

[summer shore]

Like the newblood guy or

[sharp cargo]

Yo i have a surprise for you

[ivory elk]

nope not at all

[rich ginkgo]

haha

noob

yes i just said noob unironically

[sharp cargo]

@ivory elk you want to see the surprise?

[fringe quiver]

am i allowed to post The Gif in response or will i get executed for that

[fringe quiver]

my buddy from highschool

hes a dentist

[ivory elk]

I post gifs

[summer shore]

dave da dentist

[ivory elk]

i dont see why tou couldnt

[hard copper]

team cherrys special announcement is that silksong is canceled

[fringe quiver]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1172642624058957844/1387139922288312320/IMG_6106.gif

alright gif posted

resume normal conversation

[steady sun]

True

[ivory elk]

see thats too high effort and is actually properly animated

mine is an amalgamation equal only to the corruption gods

[fringe quiver]

the announcement is that team cherry was fucking KILLED like they were all eaten by a great white shark. the person making the stream is the janitor and hes gonna say silksong is cancelled because ari gibson and william pellem fucking died

[summer shore]

ari gibson was silked

[oblique escarp]

I love boring weapons getting reworked

current purge guzzler sucks so much

[ivory elk]

chat its done

as requested

[vestal osprey]

This, this is beautiful

[ivory elk]

thank you I had fun making it

[hardy gulch]

Why did you run over her!!!

[oblique escarp]

why is Yharim so homophobic

[azure oak]

because he's yharim

[ivory elk]

Im debating doing the song too

[shut granite]

invoking my stargod final??
volume warning

[cunning sequoia]

this is just a jet set radio song

[shut granite]

the beginning kinda

[wicked pewter]

Holy this shit goes hard

[ember field]

huh, rev and death doesn't increase boss damage anymore, maybe cuz it's to prioritize the different boss attacks/mechanics being the difficult part and not the damage increase itself?

[gloomy grove]

✅ :D

[hexed basalt]

its because its a completely unnecessary mechanic that adds nothing but bloat

rev and death are Ai difficulties and them having more damage never really made sense and is just a headache for a plethora of reaskns

[hoary edge]

oh cosmolight needs astral bar in the future update? damn

[dense marsh]

Hmm, would've been more balanced if Cosmolight was tiershifted to at least Luminite or Uelibloom

[valid crypt]

How so

[dense marsh]

It depends

How fast will it accelerate time?

[valid crypt]

Why would that matter either to its balancing??

[dense marsh]

Cuz if you can do that indefinitely, and it's super fast.. that's a little overpowered

[stuck kite]

luminite was considered but luminite and astral are just about the same tier. there's a good amount of populace that fights astrum deus after moon lord anyway, and it's possible astrum deus officially moves there

and deus is extremely skippable

[dense marsh]

Oi I suppose you're right

[valid crypt]

Iirc the only night time relevant thing post ml is being changed to not have a night time activation (blue providence)
So whats op with controlling time at high speeds

[dense marsh]

All I can say is, we have the enchanted sun and moondial

[valid crypt]

Long ass cooldowns

[dense marsh]

Those are two very good tools, Cosmolight makes them useless

[dense marsh]

Balanced!

[valid crypt]

Yeah and cosmolight being post deus and post cultist gives those good tools time to be used unlike the current post wof

And as said earlier post ml is like barely a change to its tier

From deus

[dense marsh]

Hmm well a huge tiershift does kinda make sense

So sure I guess

B still we need cooldowns

[fiery cradle]

smh Fabsol was evil but Fabsol was the only thing standing between the new cosmolight and the popular masses

[dense marsh]

What new Cosmolight

[fiery cradle]

this

[dense marsh]

Fabsol liked the idea?

Why wouldn't anyone

[fiery cradle]

wait really 😭

[dense marsh]

Who wouldn't

[fiery cradle]

I feel betrayed smh

[dense marsh]

This change is actually good for the gwme

[fringe quiver]

what does fabsol have to do with that

[dense marsh]

Idk I asked if Fabsol liked the idea

[fiery cradle]

Fabsol gone
evil villanous devs eviscerate cosmolight

[dense marsh]

good devs eviscerate Cosmolight*

[azure oak]

seems more like a buff to cosmolight

[fiery cradle]

I feel like oe of those Iraqis who talks about how "Saddam hussein was bad but..."

[lapis oak]

No not really

[fiery cradle]

eh seems like they're tryna remove time limits on nbosses

like keeping them at night

they removed a couple

[lapis oak]

Rebalanced is what someone would say

[fiery cradle]

and the cosmolight would remove the rest

[hushed hazel]

i don't think there's any evidence that fab had literally any effect on this

[valid crypt]

Bakidon is there for the bosses that do need night time

It like triples the length of night time

[fiery cradle]

chill it ain't that deep

[hushed hazel]

i'm aware

[fiery cradle]

wait I thought it fully froze time

[hushed hazel]

it does

but not indefinitely and has a cooldown

[dense marsh]

So bakidon is balanced

[fiery cradle]

oh I see cosmolight is indefinite

[dense marsh]

ehhh Cosmolight still needs the cooldowns

[valid crypt]

Cosmolight is tierd at a stage in progression where having near complete control of time doesnt really matter anymore so can they really make it op enough to need cooldowns?

[lapis oak]

Why

[fiery cradle]

I mean if they're blowing open the time limits for night bosses does it really matter if the cooldown is 5 minutes or 10?

[dense marsh]

again terraria dun let you control time wihout a cooldown

[lapis oak]

Uh...

[valid crypt]

Yeah
And?
Terraria dont let you progress past moonlord

[dense marsh]

[lapis oak]

What does it have to do with Cosmolight?

[ivory elk]

Base terraria also has less MS and dmg

[magic lily]

were'nt there a lot of talks of reworking a lot of stuff and dog?

[fiery cradle]

bruh the big problem tho is just like what if I'm tryna do like death mode mechs and I gotta sleep in bed a bunch between attempts

[magic lily]

what happened to that did it release or not yet

[magic lily]

exactly

i do not know

[fiery cradle]

DOG please cover half my screen

[ivory elk]

thats my main thing with it being post golem now is arent most time dependent bosses early hm/phm?

[magic lily]

the dog rework would be the main thing that'll let me play calamity again so thats why im asking

[ivory elk]

like i get sleeping will just be required now instead

[valid crypt]

Thats why they let you triple the nights length
To make this less of a problem

[ivory elk]

I dont think we really know the timeline for DoG rn

[ivory elk]

its post golem

it takes astral bars

[valid crypt]

Bakidon isnt

Cosmolight is

[ivory elk]

is that item also in changelogs

[azure oak]

also astral bars are post deus, not golem?

[valid crypt]

Yeah 721

[lapis oak]

it's literally 1 line above Cosmolight changes like cmon now

[ivory elk]

I see it whats its crafting recipe Ive never heard of the old item

[lapis oak]

every day Calamity players don't read become more true

[valid crypt]

The devs have talked like its usable on mechs

So prob where current cosmolight is

[lapis oak]

it uses the same recipe as the current Cosmolight

[fiery cradle]

eh I mean 3 attempts instead of 1

[ivory elk]

I have no probs then

[fiery cradle]

still kinda just annoying

[lapis oak]

no

[ivory elk]

1? what are you starting at 2:00?

[lapis oak]

Mech fights take 3 minutes average

28 minutes is like 10 attempts

[fiery cradle]

ok 4

[lapis oak]

if you die that's less than 3 minutes

[valid crypt]

Idk whats causing you to take a full night for one attempt

[lapis oak]

then it's even more than 10 tries

[fiery cradle]

idk mayhbe I'm just old and haven't seen the reworked mechs but I've definitely taken longer lmao

[ivory elk]

yeah my only issue was the lack of time manipulation early hm in place of cosmo for night fights but if its supposed to help with that i no longer care about the changes at all

[fringe quiver]

If you mean the DoG rework with the new sprite and all

That's still gonna be some updates away

but

DoG is getting a rework in the next update, a temporary one

[valid crypt]

The devs balance for a 3 min mech fight iirc
So taking longer then 3 min is a gear issue im pretty sure

[fringe quiver]

It'll have cool new visuals and the fight is actually good now apparently

[ivory elk]

you mean tomorrow

[fiery cradle]

[fiery cradle]

truth

[lapis oak]

also if you are good, Adrenaline and Rage will blow the 3 minutes out of water

[ivory elk]

We must continue the agrenda

Yharim tomorrow

DoG new rework

[lapis oak]

and shorten the fights even more

[cobalt wharf]

i think still there are situations where it’ll take longer no matter what

[fiery cradle]

what are these 2 minute mech fights 😭

[cobalt wharf]

but also time freeze should still be more than enoigh

[lapis oak]

either bad aim or no damage buiilds

my build last time was so shit I made Cal Clone enraged

[cobalt wharf]

skeletron prime before dogass bh changes took like a minute lol

[fiery cradle]

wtf

[cobalt wharf]

yeah there was nothing stopping you from only hitting the head and it only had like 35k health or something

nowadays the arms get mad if the head is in p2 and they haven’t been killed

[fiery cradle]

clearly the answer to this is to add a second head

[cobalt wharf]

i do have memories of not being able to fucking kill expert revengeance twins in like 1.5 3 years ago for some reason

[fiery cradle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1340374982072467569/1340428408445862019/LTTgiMdn.gif

[cobalt wharf]

i think i was summoner using weapons that could not hit them and flying up and down like a maniac (shit was rough before blade staff and sanguine were added)

[fiery cradle]

damn rip no gif perms

[fiery cradle]

lmaooo I remember being really young and struggling at normal mode calamity

[fringe quiver]

https://tenor.com/view/mami_tomoe-gif-9953218

fglexes my embe dperms because im #evil

[fiery cradle]

at least pick a better gif

[valid crypt]

Fuck you

[hushed hazel]

https://tenor.com/view/joe-mama-gif-21334549

[ivory elk]

[valid crypt]

Cheese is cheese tho

[fiery cradle]

TRUE

that's a good one

saved

[ivory elk]

Just make your own gifs like me

[lapis oak]

blow up

[ivory elk]

then you dont need embed perms

[fringe quiver]

literally the best possible gif, im cheese

[fringe quiver]

ah ! ahhg

[pseudo pine]

also im glad they are improving caustic croaker
current one feels terrible to use

[halcyon seal]

Any new spoilers dropped while I was asleep

[ivory elk]

Uh Yharim tomorrow

[glass plank]

@waterwraithgaming

[late eagle]

Calamity should add Clippy

[dry whale]

we already have fanny we dont need clippy

[late eagle]

We should kill fanny in a hallway and replace with clippy

[distant raft]

fanny wouldn't let you do that

[azure oak]

fanny doesn't understand the power of spite

[distant raft]

fanny is the child of nameless

no mere paperclip could surpass him

[azure oak]

"mere paperclip"

[dry whale]

you can't

fanny too powerful

[dull heart]

hi

[valid crypt]

Goodbye

[lapis oak]

no wtf the spoilers are now gone

[dull heart]

L

sometimes I think about sending a spoiler image but then remember it has multiple placeholder sprites in it

[late eagle]

The asset mines😔 ...

[lapis oak]

spriter hell

spriter, hell

[analog helm]

spriter heaven

spriter purgatory

[dull heart]

one of them isn't really a sprite it needs

ideally it would be a shader but I ain't smart enough to figure it out

[azure oak]

simply crop the images in a way to exclude the placeholder sprites

[dull heart]

that would

be an option albeit a bad one

[pulsar cobalt]

just be smarter

[dull heart]

Oh thanks

[lapis oak]

1 fryzahh isn't enough

the clone factory needs to get to work

[dull heart]

screw it I'll send the image anyway
stratus sphere and the blobs around me are placeholders

[azure oak]

neat

[lapis oak]

WTF GLAGIUS

GALDIUS

GLADIUS

[late eagle]

[dull heart]

lol

[lapis oak]

typed too fast...

[torn kite]

Are worm segments made like any other worms witg sprites or they're drawn in a real time?

Like with code and shit

[dull heart]

those segments are made with 2 sprites (star and a glow) and dynamically have a line drawn between them with code

same with any of the constellation stuff

star and glow sprites, connected with a line via code

[torn kite]

🫤

Oh

Line is drawn with code

I sse

I see

[lapis oak]

are Galaxia and AotC lines work like that too

[dull heart]

idk

[valid crypt]

?

[dull heart]

no idea what galaxia or aotc do for constellations

[lapis oak]

I actually wanna know how the Aries' line works

the yoyo attunement

it looks very dynamic

[dull heart]

definitely not the same as Gladius that's for sure

Aries re-spawns a new trail a couple times a second iirc

like every half second?

gladius trail is constantly there

[lapis oak]

ye I just don't know if those lines are like set patterns or randomized

[dull heart]

the craziest thing about this image is I could easily include two more Stratus weapons in it

I think I could easily include all but one of them

[dull heart]

I think they're random

but idk

[azure oak]

dew it

[dull heart]

no

I do wonder if I could manage to have something from every single one at the same time

[lapis oak]

I'm gonna say the "can't" one is Halley's Inferno

[dull heart]

moreso the issue is

Halley's, Night's Gaze, and Crescent Moon

I could manage to show any two of them at the same time with ease but not all 3

[urban cloak]

The constellation line is a projectile internally that dynamically spawns multiple particles in randomized positions to form the actual structure of the constellation
The particles are spawned on a set timer, which gets reset and respawns the constellation if the blade ever moves too far away from the last position

[lapis oak]

🥹 🙏

btw doze have you tried making the connecting lines glow

[winged wave]

don't like the cosmolight tiershift? import one from pre recipe change

[late eagle]

Is the galileo gladius now like the coldheart icicle but extended?

Or does he do something else in contact with the enemy?

[urban cloak]

(that is not exo gladius)

[late eagle]

Wait sorry

[urban cloak]

I'll leave it to doze if he wants to explain it or not since he reworked it

[dull heart]

No

[late eagle]

It looks like a yoyo type of thing to me lol

Just continuous contact damage

[covert bolt]

Ok so I just saw the cosmolight changelogs. This is just a bad change. Cosmolight doesn't invalidate any current game design aside from arbitrary wait periods, and even if it did, delaying it doesn't fix any issue it apparently poses. Apparently this change is for a new quest system that the cosmolight would invalidate. That could only mean quests are tied to time of day. Isn't this just Angler all over again? I thought that NPC was hated, and for good reason!

Look, at the end of the day, if this change goes through it's no big deal, I can just downpatch or wait until someone else mods old cosmolight back in. But I just had to ask...why?

[azure oak]

where did you get that quest thing from

[covert bolt]

Looking into previous discussion about the change

[late eagle]

No sir it's not

[covert bolt]

please do tell why it's not, I genuinely want to know from what angle everything revolving around this change isn't just making QoL worse

[distant raft]

it makes the night an actual thing that you need to interact with

i think the change is very good

[pulsar cobalt]

if you genuinely think people hate angler because the quests can only be done once a day youre just wrong

people hate it because its fishing related

[covert bolt]

...are we serious here. The same night that gets invalidated anyways after getting early hardmode gear. At that point just make it post-mech 1

[hushed hazel]

take it away fry

[lapis oak]

What you mean by this

[covert bolt]

The gear you get post-wof is enough to deal with any threat night poses

[lapis oak]

It's not... all about night time enemies...

[covert bolt]

what else is there? the lack of vision?

[lapis oak]

...

Fry go ahead

[vivid hemlock]

[lapis oak]

Gimme ice cream

[vivid hemlock]

i'll consider it

[distant raft]

i like how cal's cutting back on the massive qol

[analog helm]

can i have sum

[late eagle]

Too late vanillin 🍦

[valid crypt]

icecream

[distant raft]

obliterate zerg and zen next please 🥰

[hushed hazel]

4 year old posting

[urban cloak]

I'm pretty sure it's already been stated that Amidias will have a custom quest system here, in which case yes that is one of the things Cosmolight invalidates

There are other time based things that we also considered while voting on what would happen, mainly being the moon events, Angler quests, and bosses with time-based mechanics. Terarria is built around the fact that you are meant to manage your time carefully when interacting with these aspects of the game and Cosmolight invalidates that in its current point of progression. Additionally, Terraria itself also has time skip mechanics (Sundial, Moondial and Beds) that Cosmolight also invalidates and we are actively trying not to step on the shoes of vanilla mechanics going further

[valid crypt]

thank you fryzahh

[cunning sequoia]

is that whisper

[late eagle]

Understandable

[stuck kite]

for the record, fargo's has portable sundial which is literally old cosmolight immediately available at hardmode so spoiled qol enjoyers can always install that mod. as if most of them hasn't already installed it

[pulsar cobalt]

basically

just install fargos if ur that pissed

[lapis oak]

Post Deus is where the Cosmolight ended up with because I think that's when you're done with most of the time based mechanics of this game and Cosmolight will be there to help with further minor annoyances that are in your way

[pulsar cobalt]

available at pre boss. you can use golden crates in fargos to turn into loot, including 2 golden crates for a sundial

[lapis oak]

Treat it like Shimmer infinite bucket and Rod of Harmony

[dull heart]

Personally I'd rather lean on the side of less gameplay speed up features than more, so players who don't like those features aren't stuck with them existing

[lapis oak]

Type of items

[dull heart]

and players who do want them can get them from other mods

[stuck kite]

oh awesome nice one fargo's

it's even more broken than i thought

[covert bolt]

doesn't the bakidon tripling night length also invalidate time management? Sundial and Moondial are both Pre-hardmode, we have plenty of time to utilize them there. I still disagree with these changes, but again, side QoL mods exist so now that I know the reason I can just add it back whenever. TY for explaining tho, much appreciated.

[urban cloak]

If you'd like more context on Bakidon, it was mainly made was a way to assist with defeating the mech bosses since they are time locked and a major progression milestone in Hardmode

Freezing time for a limited amount of, well, time is a much more mechanic-friendly alternative to literally just taking control of the time of day and grinding out attempts. You are still given the ability to grind more attempts than usual but it doesn't artifically speed up gameplay a ton and steps on the shoes of other existing mechanics. While Bakidon is recharging you could go sleep in a bed or use Enchanted Sundial to skip through the day and get back to fighting the Mechs

[lapis oak]

Sundial and Moondial are hardmode

[dull heart]

sundial and Moondial are hardmode

[urban cloak]

okay lol good thing i wrote that bakidon message lmao

[covert bolt]

wait what?

I thought they were pre?

aren't they angler?

[dull heart]

they are hardmode crates

[covert bolt]

ohhh

[pulsar cobalt]

fargos also has battle cry, which is basically infinite zerg and zen at any time with the only gate being water candles (so post skeletron (or pre boss if ur cool))

[dull heart]

Sundial is crates, Moondial is shimmer sundial

[lapis oak]

Also Bakidon have limit on how much it will be able to freeze time, and can't freeze when in events like Blood Moon, Solar Eclipse etc

[covert bolt]

yeah still modding my way around the change but I understand the angle more now

[stuck kite]

bakidon can't refresh certain travelling merchant shops or repeatable quests or capable of spawning vanilla events (essentially replacing both bloody tear or solar eclipse) or able to change moon phases at will

[dull heart]

Yeah that's fine

[stuck kite]

the main thing bakidon is for is to solve the grievances the loss of cosmolight at that tier where it's frustrating to do mech fights

[fringe quiver]

ok but important question

[dull heart]

Play how you want! we just need to design for the experience we want players to have, and when in doubt, lean more towards the crowd that wants less speeding up of the game

[fringe quiver]

why it called that

what does bakidon mean

[dull heart]

Bakidon?

[fringe quiver]

i'm curious

yeh

[dull heart]

it's a Hebrew word roughly for "Battle Spear"

[stuck kite]

biblical spear

[dull heart]

It's specifically the word used in the book of Joshua for the spear he held up to stop the sun

[fringe quiver]

ah

that makes sense

pretty cool

[urban cloak]

(It might actually be obtainable in PreHM. We overhaul the Angler's quest loot pool to not be randomized and Sundial is obtained after completing quest #26 iirc)

[dull heart]

I tried to find something similar to rename cosmolight to but there was nothing

[dull heart]

oh really?

[fringe quiver]

definitely a cooler name than

well we have sunlight
why not moonlight !

[urban cloak]

Yea

[fringe quiver]

And since the quest stuff was mentioned i am also curious

Has progress on that started yet

[stuck kite]

what are the chances you get to quest 26 anyway

[urban cloak]

Mhm

[fringe quiver]

In any way really, be it the assets needed or the coding stuffs

[lapis oak]

Kill the Angler

[fringe quiver]

Cool

[lapis oak]

🫠

[urban cloak]

I believe there aren't many left that need their functionality complete

Just waiting on some bigger things

[stuck kite]

quest ui is so scrumptious right now and quests have been designed

[dull heart]

The idea behind Bakidon and Cosmolight is

Bakidon is some ancient magical artifact that's lost it's power over the ages. Reigniting it with celestial power (astral bars and solar fragments) returns it to full power as Cosmolight

[fringe quiver]

I'm pretty excited for the quests both as a lore enthusiast and also just the fact that getting more unique gameplay that isn't just Fight Boss is great

[late eagle]

UI😍

[lapis oak]

Big E

[stuck kite]

big e appreciation

[fringe quiver]

big e 🙏

[late eagle]

Big E cooking right now

[dull heart]

big apprEciation

[late eagle]

E

[vivid hemlock]

1 trillion to big e

[urban cloak]

We love Big E 🙏

[valid crypt]

big E?

[lapis oak]

UI god

[stuck kite]

they're big

[fringe quiver]

hit coder big e...

[late eagle]

The UI master

[valid crypt]

oh right they exist

[cunning sequoia]

big e smalls

[fringe quiver]

its insane how literally everytime hs shown something he coded before its always the coolest shit ever

[pulsar cobalt]

@fallen olive We are talking about you.

[late eagle]

BIG E FEED US

[dull heart]

ominous message

[lapis oak]

Idle Big E

Idol Big E

[dull heart]

should I show 714

[valid crypt]

i remember you're user interface

[late eagle]

Yes

[fringe quiver]

714 is a pretty cool number

what about 713 tho

[vivid hemlock]

[lapis oak]

You mean in video format?

[fringe quiver]

It'd be cool to see any of the new sso enemies in action.... i crave creatures

[dull heart]

I have already shown 713

[pulsar cobalt]

he already showed 713

[valid crypt]

kiriwhite dying in 2

[late eagle]

1

[lapis oak]

😨 wtf?

[fringe quiver]

Hey i didn't say anything about changelogs

I just said 714 is a cool number

[valid crypt]

713 is not

[stuck kite]

sunken sea anything is a major spoiler i fear..,

[dull heart]

minions are basically creatures unless they're not

[pulsar cobalt]

well i think CHEESE is a good food that must be CONSUMED

[late eagle]

True I like cheese

[fringe quiver]

makes sense... but just a small little fish... just one...

[late eagle]

In my bread

[fringe quiver]

one (1) singular fish. surely

[pulsar cobalt]

no

[stuck kite]

🐟

[pulsar cobalt]

anything sunken sea is a level 10 spoiler

[lapis oak]

We got Yellyfishes recently have we not

[valid crypt]

the update about the sunken sea will not show the content related to the sunken sea

[fringe quiver]

https://tenor.com/view/blue-planet-anglerfish-thaumatichthys-little-fish-come-into-my-mouth-little-fish-gif-25863357

[vivid hemlock]

the sea sank too deep

no one can find it anymore

[dull heart]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/406493898341613568/1397632288539414598/exalt.mp4?ex=68826e00&is=68811c80&hm=68dc581a7c40254622f19b3699eb13012d196a6354fd5e1a4d6aac3ef23e9224&

[fringe quiver]

NOOO MY LITTLE FISH GIF DOSENT WORK

im gonnacry.

[lapis oak]

Aaaaap

[valid crypt]

deserved

[late eagle]

AYO THAT'S CRAZY

[fringe quiver]

So you can like, right click to send the swords going wee

[dull heart]

yea

[fringe quiver]

cool

[dull heart]

just like current but not janky

[fringe quiver]

Unfortunate

I don't see any shroombles on that video

😔

[dull heart]

it also definitely could like two shot destroyer at first oops

[pulsar cobalt]

so when they have the glowy outline thats when u can rclick

[hushed hazel]

this is, as the youth says, poggers champion

[dull heart]

yea

[late eagle]

Kinda look like new seashine sword

[stuck kite]

doze spoiler ammo

im like opposite of spoiler ammo

[dull heart]

Spoiler mana

[urban cloak]

You can have a ss of the little fuckers I spent 2 days trying to perfect

[pulsar cobalt]

no spoilers for the rest of time

[fringe quiver]

yay :]

[azure oak]

fishe obtained!!!!!

[pulsar cobalt]

THEYRE REAL

THE FISH

[valid crypt]

LITTLE FUCKERS FOUND

[fringe quiver]

i got fish im satisfied

i like. fish !

[pulsar cobalt]

also wow

terrarias water

really muddies the colour of the sprites

[stuck kite]

i might've made changes to just about 90% of files with text in them but not much of them are spoilerable

[fringe quiver]

was it done for optimization or something

[valid crypt]

THE EVIL AND DUBIOUS WATER FILTER

FUCK I FORGOT CAPS LOCK

fixed

[stuck kite]

a lot of things

[pulsar cobalt]

thanks for screaming at me tupid gun

[valid crypt]

no problem

will do it again

[stuck kite]

rebalancing, fixing, optimising, consistency changing

standardising

stuff like particles when you eat or drink something

the entire economy shift

changing of drops and drop rates

the damage flattening

[fringe quiver]

oh ic

that makes sense lol

[fallen olive]

🤯

[stuck kite]

a lot of tooltips

[fringe quiver]

the great post-fabdeath 10000 changes to make the mod good

🙏

[stuck kite]

also killed probably 70% of defense damage sources

[valid crypt]

sso? nah great fabdeath update

[fringe quiver]

sunken sea overhaul? ❌
CMO ✅

[stuck kite]

and enemy rebalancing + death of enemy dr

[fringe quiver]

Calamity Management Overhaul

[late eagle]

My savior make peak UI and my life is yours 🙏

[urban cloak]

what a calamity: definitive edition

[vivid hemlock]

calamity malware that downloads the entire update on your computer every minute

[dull heart]

The Unfabulous Update

[valid crypt]

what a calamity squared

[lapis oak]

our SSO, truly

[mystic eagle]

Truly Fabulous Update

[pulsar cobalt]

u mean like normal enemies only when talking about dr?

[mystic eagle]

We're done with the fake Fabulous stuff

We now have the True Fabulous stuff

[fallen olive]

Quest UI is functionally done, just needs some proper assets. Rn it's using a stock image jpeg for part of it lol

[stuck kite]

im pretty sure there's a changelog on it

[mystic eagle]

Quest UI??

[dull heart]

peak

[mystic eagle]

What quests are you talking about

[lapis oak]

stock images are always peak

[stuck kite]

fishy quests

[mystic eagle]

oh

[fallen olive]

I had a lotta fun giving it some unique thematic charm

[stuck kite]

but not fishing quests

[late eagle]

[mystic eagle]

Story quests!?

[fallen olive]

Which actually inspired a concept for another UI adjacent thingie I'll probably get started on at some point

[stuck kite]

that reminds me of something

gonna quickly do that

[valid crypt]

?

[dull heart]

Reminds me

[lapis oak]

Another fabdeath is, upon us

[dull heart]

I need to make the brewing ui

eventually

[lapis oak]

Oh right

That's actually a thing

[dull heart]

But first I need to make more "controversial" changes

[late eagle]

For calamity or not?

[dull heart]

like cosmolight Retier

[valid crypt]

peak

[mystic eagle]

That already happened in the changelogs

[stuck kite]

unannounced dev vote spawned

[mystic eagle]

Are we already retconning a changelog the day after it released

[dull heart]

no

I am saying that

[fallen olive]

Indeed, it's smth that'll be taking the place of a lotta items that'd otherwise need to be made 🤭

[late eagle]

Kill all solar eruption flails

[dull heart]

I need to make more controversial changes like cosmolight retier

[mystic eagle]

oh

[dull heart]

I have at least one more controversial change in the works

[late eagle]

Okay I'm hyped

[dull heart]

also controversial in the same way cosmolight was probably

mostly just disliked by people who like their op items

[late eagle]

Having a cool UI makes such a difference

[dull heart]

but needed for better game balance

[lapis oak]

Zen Zerg?

[dull heart]

nope

[fallen olive]

Indeed 🙏

[mystic eagle]

Amidias Help breath thingy?

[urban cloak]

reminds me that I wanted to mess with the dialogue ui a bit

[cinder hearth]

Nerf to the drill?

[lapis oak]

So you aren't that fast it seems like

[urban cloak]

I'll finish Stormlion Sentinel first though ig

[dull heart]

you're thinking too small scale

[fallen olive]

🔥

[dull heart]

this change would effect most of the players

[cinder hearth]

Hohohoh now I'm curious

[mystic eagle]

New swing styles?

[fallen olive]

Excited to see it getting used

[mystic eagle]

Removal of the faster base movement?

[cinder hearth]

Mmmmmmm
Removal of starter dash

[dull heart]

nope and nope

[urban cloak]

i will make ✨ cutscenes ✨ and they will be so cool

[mystic eagle]

Reaver Shark renerf?

[dull heart]

not quite that universal of a change

[lapis oak]

The Sponge giga nerf part 2

[cinder hearth]

Oooh this would be nice

[dull heart]

Reaver Shark nerf wouldn't effect that many players tbh

[lapis oak]

Wait, it's Exo Box retier

[cinder hearth]

Nerf to Regen setups?

[fallen olive]

🤩

[dull heart]

oh that's not what I was thinking of but I do need to do that too

exo box is too limited

[lapis oak]

Guh

[dull heart]

This affects probably about half the game

for most players

[mystic eagle]

[pulsar cobalt]

nerf to supreme tackle box?

[lapis oak]

Adrenaline nerf

[cinder hearth]

Removal of rod of discord from wizard shop

[pulsar cobalt]

alr happened

[hasty tangle]

he said "op items"

[dull heart]

ah pack it up ggs

[lapis oak]

Fuck

[cinder hearth]

Ah yeah that's fair

[lapis oak]

GP go ahead

[dull heart]

(no it's not tackle box)

[cinder hearth]

Oh lol

[late eagle]

[lapis oak]

I don't even... use this

[late eagle]

Calamity if it was peak

[pulsar cobalt]

WAIT

[lapis oak]

But I guess that's true?

[pulsar cobalt]

momentum capacitor?

[lapis oak]

Wait

I'm dumb af

[dull heart]

momentum capacitor also doesn't effect most players I would say

[lapis oak]

Chat going too fast

[hushed hazel]

i forget momentum capacitor exists

[mystic eagle]

DR reformulating?

[cinder hearth]

Warding nerf?

[lapis oak]

Consumable boss spawn items

[dull heart]

I don't think Dr reformulations would be controversial, and would change the whole game

[hasty tangle]

affects "most" players implies it doesnt impact all players

so its something that not everyone would use

[mystic eagle]

I don't even know anymore

[dull heart]

This would impact the whole game

[mystic eagle]

Consumable boss spawn items are stupid

[dull heart]

however

Non consumable boss spawn items are also stupid

[hasty tangle]

theyre less stupid though

[dull heart]

yes

The ideal would be semi consumable

One summon = one set of boss drops

only lose the item when you beat the boss

But either way that's not what this is

[hasty tangle]

sounds reasonable

[mystic eagle]

Can you tell us what it is

[dull heart]

what is the most over centralizing item line in the whole game that's not wings

[hasty tangle]

boots?

[cinder hearth]

Ambrosial Ampoule line

[lapis oak]

Aegis

[mystic eagle]

Rams

[dull heart]

ok boots is close idk which I'd put higher

[mystic eagle]

Oh dear Rams

[valid crypt]

Asgardian aegis?

[hasty tangle]

hmm, that does fit the bill

[valid crypt]

Boots or ram i think

[mystic eagle]

Ornate Shield -> Asgardian Aegis

[cinder hearth]

Oooh is it a removal of calamity's ankh shield accessory recipes?

[mystic eagle]

How many changelogs are you behind

[cinder hearth]

Many

I don't remember them all

[dull heart]

I have a branch right now where I'm trying out different nerfs to the Aegis line yes

[lapis oak]

Prehardmode doesn't have Ram

That fits

[dull heart]

trying to find something that makes them less strong while also still feeling good

[cinder hearth]

Breaking news: infernum stops compatibility updates lmao

[dull heart]

Infernum is already going to do that once 1.4.5 drops probably

They just are waiting for a version where calamity won't be updating anymore

[cinder hearth]

Yeah, it's why I really want to finish it now

[mystic eagle]

Have you tried cooldowns?

Wait I know something

[dull heart]

it means you'll be able to play 1.4.4 infernum forever via just selecting 1.4.4 Tmod

[cinder hearth]

Yes but It Annoys Me Greatly

[mystic eagle]

A limited number of times you can ram through something in a short period before it "breaks" and gets a semi-long cooldown

[dull heart]

So far the ideas that seem like they have most promise for nerfing rams is reducing the active frames or giving them startup frames

[cinder hearth]

I want to play it when it's still at the latest calamity version

[mystic eagle]

Hold on I'm gonna draw this

[dull heart]

start-up frames was a very interesting thing to try I still don't know how I felt about it

[cinder hearth]

This would probably mean changing some bosses as well? Because something like duke fishron without a ram in its current state sounds pretty obnoxious. Like, the phase where it's dashing CONSTANTLY I mean

[calm ingot]

Golf cart gaming

[lapis oak]

Doesn't really need it tbh

[valid crypt]

I just dodge that

[lapis oak]

Smart positioning is what Ram has made it obsolete when it comes to those situations

[cinder hearth]

I mean, not NEED but the last phase surely fucking likes it

[dull heart]

I think the most likely nerf for rams is just reducing their active frames

So they don't last for 2 years

But we'll see

[lapis oak]

Ye

[cinder hearth]

Yeah that's fair honestly

Make them more skill intensive while also still retaining their power if used properly

[calm ingot]

Why do they need a nerf?

[dull heart]

They're incredibly overcentralizing

[lapis oak]

Because they're OP?

[valid crypt]

Because they are overcentralised

[dull heart]

also removing the debuff immunities & ankh shield from the line is also on the table

might do that

[calm ingot]

So are wings lol

[dull heart]

yeah

[calm ingot]

It’s how the game is designed

[dull heart]

but wings also don't have alternatives

And have more variety in options

[stuck kite]

this happened a while ago

[dull heart]

Rams overcentralize against other alternatives they have

[cinder hearth]

Does this mean aegis with no KB immunity

[dull heart]

no

No it doesn't

[lapis oak]

Vanilla makes Wings like what they are, not Ram

[dull heart]

that too

[calm ingot]

Is it not dependent on the boss?
Some would rather have master ninja gear + upgrades

[dull heart]

Wings aren't our problem to fix

[lapis oak]

Calamity made Ram like what it is right now

[cinder hearth]

I think the other alternative would be making the other alternatives more present and better

Like the flame licked shell and blazing core could use a buff for example, as an alternative playstyle

[dull heart]

Those aren't alternatives to rams

[cinder hearth]

Because of the cooldown

[dull heart]

rams provide movement and those do not

No

because rams are first and foremost a movement tool that ALSO provides knockback immunity, debuff immunities, defense, and obviously the ability to avoid contact dmg

Plus they don't incredibly leniently

[calm ingot]

What alternative even is there besides master ninja gear and high ruler?
I’ve never seen anyone use high ruler but ninja gear upgrades are really good for certain bosses

[dull heart]

ninja gear has the issue of now you need knockback immunity somewhere else

[cinder hearth]

I mean the rams themselves are over centralizing mainly because of the contact damage thing

The other dashes also provide movement but those do not need a nerf I'd say

[calm ingot]

You don’t need knockback immunity

It’s nice but it’s not the end of the world to not have

[dull heart]

you don't need it but the game is a whole lot better to play with it on

And I'd rather lose the 30 sec dodge but keep knockback immunity

[lapis oak]

Oh you absolutely do, for comfort and feel at ease

[dull heart]

plus defense

[dull heart]

Yea

[cinder hearth]

Also absorber exists for that which is a good accessory with also having KB immunity

Were rams not KB immune I'd probably just use that too

[dull heart]

It's because of all the things rams do together

[dull heart]

Terrible example when those become solid in 2.1

[lapis oak]

Omg Solar Armor shield

No way

[mystic eagle]

wait

shit

[calm ingot]

Rampart and downgrades and absorber exist
It’s a fair trade for the dodge

[distant raft]

anti inf dog technology

[dull heart]

anyway

[calm ingot]

Anti inf every pml boss besides prov and scal technology

[dull heart]

rams losing the debuff immunities and being less lenient should be plenty to bring them in line

If you want a more lenient contact immunity use High Ruler

(high ruler has been buffed with 10x dmg, better iframes, and higher pushback when holding away from the enemy)

[cinder hearth]

Well, will it be enough to convince people to try and use other dashes? Because as it is, the other dash really doesn't provide the same use case for which you'd use a ram

This would just mean absorber and other KB accessories become stronger , in my opinion

Sure, positioning is also an alternative for dodging contact damage, but it's not that simple

[dull heart]

I'd say high ruler absolutely can fill the same niche as a ram for many people

[calm ingot]

“Just dodge” mfs when Thanatos coils you

[dull heart]

I don't know the last time Thanatos coiled me

[valid crypt]

Thanatos tries to coil you?

[dull heart]

not really

[calm ingot]

The last time I played base cal

[lapis oak]

No

[dull heart]

He only coils you if you put yourself in that situation

[stuck kite]

i dont think ive ever seen thanatos tried to coil you unless you played yourself while it's trying to blender

[dull heart]

yea

[stuck kite]

or beam

or whatever

word

the big fuck off laser thanatos does

[lapis oak]

Even then Thanatos doesn't do contact damage when it's super slow

So just get out of it

[gritty musk]

imo unless you make ram dashes awful theyre always gonna be used on bosses like plaguebringer, duke and devourer. they just work so well against contact damage heavy bosses. i think all they need is a bit of an iframe nerf since on more projectile based bosses theres better options

[dull heart]

oh sure

[lapis oak]

Of course some bosses will preferred rams

[dull heart]

It's not meant to make them useless

It's meant to make them just not as powerful

I fully expect them to be the go-to even with the nerfs

[lapis oak]

And then after all that

[gritty musk]

alright nice lmfao yeah you do occasionally get goofy occassions where you ram through an attack during frames where youre basically stationary that could probably do with addressing xd

[lapis oak]

idk make more bosses feel more like they're not ram dependent for normal players

even if they're actually not

[cinder hearth]

The main ones I can think of are the dukes and maybe yharon

The others don't need a ram as much

[potent scroll]

[lapis oak]

normal players

[cinder hearth]

Yeah, even for them

I guess PBG too maybe but like, I don't think that many are so ram dependant? Destroyer, AS Thanatos and DOG do benefit from a ram because they're worms, but it's not AS present as in duke fights

[lapis oak]

they absolutely will think a lot of bosses need rams

speaking from experiences and observations

[dull heart]

Yeah lol

rams are like twice as lenient as they should be

I'm excited for high ruler to be used

[lapis oak]

how much of a giga buff was that

[dull heart]

30 -> 300 dmg
1.25x horizontal bounce when holding no movement keys
1.5x horizontal bounce when holding away from the enemy
4 -> 6 iframes

[stuck kite]

hifh ruler used outside of adr

[dull heart]

SoC also got all of those buffs except the dmg

[lyric trellis]

300 damage SoC would be balanced I think

[dull heart]

true

[distant raft]

anti crabulon technology engaged

[stuck kite]

me initially making one of the victide abilities 100 damage at first and instantly found out thats a bad idea

[lyric trellis]

Inflicts nightwither for 0.5 seconds

[dull heart]

aggressive high ruler will be cool to see now that it has an existing amount of damage

since it's cooldown and ADR mechanic fits into it being aggressive well it just doesn't actually... Do anything

[boreal edge]

omb

[lyric trellis]

Hi 🐱

[halcyon seal]

Depends, are you counting centralizing across the whole game or centralizing for a specific point

[dull heart]

the item line in general

not one specific item

so it would be across multiple points

[halcyon seal]

I mean I wouldn’t say its centralizing but the absorber line is pretty fucking crazy ngl

[dull heart]

yeah it is

[rich ginkgo]

rams for sure

maybe boots earlier on?

[dull heart]

it's between rams and boots overall

[rich ginkgo]

they get shit pretty fast tho

[dull heart]

Eh

I don't think boots get as bad as people think

[rich ginkgo]

well i mean it comes down to would you rather use boots or wings for this boss fight and when you get into those later stages you’re gonna be picking wings almost every time

and if you decide to combine the two post ml it’s just a nerf to the wings

[halcyon seal]

Pre-golem you basically always use both

[rich ginkgo]

you dont need boots against bosses that are just flying all the time

[halcyon seal]

Only reason you don’t use both is because of the crazy mobility wings like fishron and empress provide

[rich ginkgo]

yeah id say post golem is where you can just ditch boots entirely and ur good

more worth it to use a better accessory

[dull heart]

No it doesn't

you can use both

[dull heart]

I'd say it's only post ML for most people

Angel Treads provides a significant top speed boost to any wings pre ML except Fishron, Empress, aureate, and Hadarian

As well as better accel and more flight time

Flight time matters a lot for empress, aureate, and Hadarian

[rich ginkgo]

you can but you’d be sacrificing an accessory slot just to use both when post ml you’ll be in the air most the time

[dull heart]

no

Boots work in the air

lol

[rich ginkgo]

deadass

[dull heart]

Run speed effects wing speed

If your run speed is higher than your wing base speed then the wing base speed becomes your run speed

Angel Treads run speed is roughly the same as Hadal Mantle, but with just Swiftness Potion it becomes on par with Fishron

[rich ginkgo]

is it really that beneficial though? wouldnt you want more control against like providence rather than pure speed

[dull heart]

Since this boosts wing base speed (pre speed buffs) based off the final run speed

It also causes wings that get raised to double scale with move speed

[dull heart]

Boots also provide notable boosts to acceleration

Which means more control

And they add 40 flight time

[rich ginkgo]

that does sound pretty good

[dull heart]

Angel Treads are a viable option the whole rest of the game, but they do fall off more the further you go

As the accel and speed benefits become less and less notable and it falls down to flight time

It means Ascendant Insignia and Aero Stone tend to be better for most wings (except maybe starboard) post provi

[dense sundial]

boots can be replaced with enough other speed bonuses (and are kinda useless post-ml) but not equipping a ram is shooting yourself in the foot

[dull heart]

yea

Well

Rams do have an alternative

Two alternatives

Brand of the Inferno type parries or Hook of Dissonance

[dense sundial]

okay, not equipping a current calamity dodge is also shooting yourself in the foot

[rich ginkgo]

it’s helpful but not 100% needed id say