calamity-update-talk

[lapis oak]

[hexed basalt]

interesting

[fringe quiver]

Wulfrum dog

[azure oak]

calamity mod

[queen umbra]

calamity mod

[azure oak]

inventor of autism

[terse dew]

I don't think that's how that works

[azure oak]

❌

he simply invented autism

[lapis oak]

What the progress on the damage flattening now I wonder

[azure oak]

what's damage flattening

[lapis oak]

Toning down bosses damage

And player defense

I mean Done said it's not fun so I guess it's still happening kinda slowly

[azure oak]

because revengance wont have stat changes anymore?

[lapis oak]

No because the numbers are inflated by Fab's shenaningans

[azure oak]

ah

[hexed basalt]

hey

I finished mech tier

[lapis oak]

Hiii

[hexed basalt]

well I didn't end up deciding about final changes for a few but I finished the practice part

[summer shore]

You could say

[hexed basalt]

no you couldn't

[lapis oak]

What bosses are left actually

[summer shore]

you're right I wasn't going to say it myself

[lapis oak]

Say what

[summer shore]

what

Next instructions

[lapis oak]

😨

Oh

I thought I see something

[hexed basalt]

all the ones I didn't do yet and in going by order

morning midnight

[iron dew]

morning done

[hexed basalt]

after bosses there are armors and accessories to worry about too but the bosses is by far the major part

[lapis oak]

Sounds fun

[iron dew]

every time i hear "damage flattening" i have to remember it just means boss damage and not player damage 🥲

[lapis oak]

That was years ago

[spark kiln]

player damage flattening when

[hexed basalt]

how would you like player damage to be flattened

[spark kiln]

or increase boss hp when

[summer shore]

ain't player damage flattening just 1.5 again

[lapis oak]

You can already do that

[spark kiln]

do you think i don’t

[hushed hazel]

yes

[lapis oak]

1.5 2

[hexed basalt]

maybe post dog powespike

[hushed hazel]

well it was also boss health flattening

[spark kiln]

that was only post moonlord + it was boss hp flattening too

[warm current]

cosmic autism

[dull heart]

Everything deals 1 damage

Problem solved

[summer shore]

Do you just want longer bosses

[hexed basalt]

I do not understand the issue with player damage

[stuck kite]

clothes iron

[hexed basalt]

the bosses later to the game are already by design longer

[warm current]

pvp stuff?

yeah post-ML gear especially is funny

[lapis oak]

Not real

[warm current]

everything is just insta kill

[hexed basalt]

you say that as if its different in vanilla

[warm current]

wait i thought vanilla is more fair

[stuck kite]

vanilla pvp is fundamentally ruined

[summer shore]

player damage flattening would mean doing 1.5 three times over

[hexed basalt]

its still bad

[dull heart]

Terraria pvp sucks

early prehardmode it's fine

[lapis oak]

pvp in Terraria is bleak

[hexed basalt]

why do we need a damage flatteb

[stuck kite]

you get as much defense as possible and you use the highest base damage weapon because unlike enemies players have iframes

[dull heart]

otherwise it just yikes

[hexed basalt]

there's like 2 tiers that might need it

[spark kiln]

it’s very easy to shred bosses

[stuck kite]

and then you use an invisibility potion and randomly fuck someone with a breaker blade or something

[lapis oak]

Don't build shred loadout? And HP config is there

[spark kiln]

why do i need to balance the game

every time i play

[hexed basalt]

its easy to shred bosses in every tier if you use specific damage loadouts

[spark kiln]

that’s ridiculous

[hexed basalt]

my face when using loadouts with high damage accessories deals much more damage

[summer shore]

what do you ask from the devs

[lapis oak]

Why you want bosses to take more time than what they are now

[lapis oak]

It's already long for most people

If you want longer just boost the hp up

[hexed basalt]

most late game bosses are intended and balanced to be at least 3 minutes, if you use very high damage loadouts that most people wouldn't use obviously the fight will be much shorter

[spark kiln]

idk why u guys are assuming i’m using whatever these “high damage load outs” are

[summer shore]

it's a pretty reasonable assumption to make

[hexed basalt]

what loadout are you using that kills bosses so fast that it counts as shreds

if you share them I'd love to hear and fix it

[spark kiln]

i just play the game bro

there’s a big problem with calamity weapons just doing stupidly high damage

for example melee is supposed to be high defence, mid damage

in calamity it’s just high defence high damage no compromise

[iron dew]

i think it's just Weird that calamity weapons do a bunch of damage and vanilla weapons have to be buffed like crazy to accomodate

[spark kiln]

90% of vanilla weapons are just completely useless and overshadowed cuz calamity weapons do way more damage

[hexed basalt]

thats correct but idk I never felt like vanilla had this as well

[hexed basalt]

I dont see this at all, I dont think most vanilla weapons are buffed in calamity

and they are certainly not useless

[mystic eagle]

Not really

[spark kiln]

then also in late game defence just kind of becomes the same for every class

which is lame

[mystic eagle]

The only weapons this really accounts for are the bloat weapons

The rest is mostly balanced fine

[pulsar cobalt]

guys its TOTALLY calamitys fault that keybrand is bad

[hexed basalt]

what do you want to be done for late game defense

armors are being changed, accessories are being changed

[pulsar cobalt]

make the defense disparity even worse duh

[lapis oak]

This is awesome

[pulsar cobalt]

summoners should get one shot obviously

[lapis oak]

Why only Melee gets to be tanky

[spark kiln]

if you want to have no meaningful play style difference between classes sure it’s awesome

lame as hell though

[iron dew]

because thats part of its class

you're tankier because you have to go closer to enemies

[hexed basalt]

do you want other class to be limited from using accessories

[lapis oak]

Haha, no

[spark kiln]

when i was playing with my friend he was melee and i was summoner and at some point i literally had more defence than him even tho he was trying to go full tank

[hexed basalt]

he did a bad job then

[spark kiln]

with auric we had like the same defence

[hexed basalt]

melee has like 40 more defense than summoner just on armor

[pulsar cobalt]

theres a 40 point disparity on auric

so ur friend was doing something wrong

do not ask why i know this by heart

[hexed basalt]

this isn't a thing in vanilla

it never was

[summer shore]

Projectile swords when they completely destroy that

[pulsar cobalt]

yea no

melee doing less, or needing to be close up

isnt even a thing in vanilla

[hexed basalt]

you can make the case for pre hard mode in which case calamity doesn't add much, but what melee weapons in calamity break the logic prececented by vanilla terraria

[spark kiln]

and we all know vanilla is without flaws

[hexed basalt]

thats a wild take

it has nothing to do with this

[pulsar cobalt]

the arguement is that "this is vanillas intention"

which it isnt

[summer shore]

me when melee's defense buff is to compensate for less range only for the later weapons to have the same range as all other class weapons

[spark kiln]

wait when did i say this

[hexed basalt]

youre presenting an issue as if its calamity breaking vanilla when vanilla never set the precedent

[pulsar cobalt]

_ _

[lapis oak]

Camilla

[hexed basalt]

Kampala harris

[spark kiln]

i didn’t say vanilla

it’s supposed to be that at least imo

but red clearly loves melee

[hexed basalt]

if its not vanilla then why is it supposed to do that lol

[pulsar cobalt]

it cant be "supposed to" and "in my opnion"

[spark kiln]

well then replace it with should

[hexed basalt]

alright

[pulsar cobalt]

allrighjt

cool

we disagree !

[spark kiln]

every other class follows the rules somewhat

in vanilla

[hexed basalt]

what rules!

[spark kiln]

more damage = lower defence

[hexed basalt]

100 defense doesn't make a big difference in end game

accessories are universal

[spark kiln]

anyways this whole thing has gone off the rails

[hexed basalt]

not really

[spark kiln]

i still stand that bosses need more health in cakamity

[hexed basalt]

you never even once made the case for why

[spark kiln]

they die too fast

[hexed basalt]

you said you shred bosses with normal loadouts and never provided any loadout or weapon or boss or anything

[summer shore]

That's inherently subjective

[mystic eagle]

That's why weapons are getting balanced

[spark kiln]

obviously

everything is inherently subjective

[summer shore]

yes

[hexed basalt]

that doesn't matter

[spark kiln]

i’m not gonna provide any load outs because who remembers their exact loadouts off the top of their head

[summer shore]

You'd need more reason than that to request rebalancing the entire game

[mystic eagle]

Screenshots

[hexed basalt]

alright im through bye bye

[spark kiln]

of what

i can’t go back in time and take screenshots

[lapis oak]

Then you can't just request balancing out of nothing

[mystic eagle]

THIS is what you call shredding

[pulsar cobalt]

"no trust me bro theres no balance"

[spark kiln]

just so you know i’m not forcing or requesting anything i’m just saying my opinion

i’m saying waht i would like to see

[mystic eagle]

This is with a testing loadout btw

[pulsar cobalt]

"im not requesting anything" "im just saying wat id like to see"

[lapis oak]

Then my opinion is boost the HP config up, it's not our jobs to satisfy that

[spark kiln]

yea a lot of bosses die like that

[spark kiln]

yeah..?

[mystic eagle]

bosses such as?

[spark kiln]

there’s no contradiction here

[mystic eagle]

And with what type of loadout?

[twin juniper]

Ranger tmelee

[mystic eagle]

And what weapon?

[lapis oak]

The HP config is always there to satisfy you

That's why there's config in the first place

[twin juniper]

Also I heard hellborn work with flask yesterday was that real

[spark kiln]

like most hardmode bosses that aren’t at the very beginning, sentinels, polterghast, dragonfolly

[mystic eagle]

Yes

It's even in the video

[hexed basalt]

https://tenor.com/view/we-breaking-bad-walter-white-gif-14928204287258878513

[lapis oak]

Aight Done

Stealing your ice cream

[hexed basalt]

wow...

[lapis oak]

Your job

[iron dew]

you cant invalidate balancing of bosses and weapons on "well erm you can artifically inflate the bosses healthbar!!!"

[spark kiln]

it’s not that hard to shred providence either

[spark kiln]

yea that’s just a bad argument

[hexed basalt]

man what

[spark kiln]

“just balance the game urself nerd”

[hexed basalt]

the issue was never provided you can't call it an issue when you keep saying its your opinion they die too fast

[spark kiln]

well it is an issue in my opinion

[mystic eagle]

It's not the devs fault if you try to minmax damage and say that bosses die too fast

[spark kiln]

alright bro

[hexed basalt]

the vast majority of the bosses with weapons and normal loadouts die in their intended time

[spark kiln]

we’re making some assumptions here

[lapis oak]

No loadouts, no testing, no killtime, no screenshots

How are the devs gonna do anything about that?

[hushed hazel]

what the hell are you people arguing about

[mystic eagle]

As you have been doing for the past half an hour

[hexed basalt]

hi goat

[hushed hazel]

hi goat

[spark kiln]

i’m saying that bosses in calamity die too fast

[pulsar cobalt]

leon and goat dont go together...

the goat would be my man dozezoze

[mystic eagle]

And do you have any backup for that statement

[hexed basalt]

they are interchangeable

[spark kiln]

i’m not gonna spend my week proving it lol

[lapis oak]

Tuki and tupid do go together tho...

[spark kiln]

u can agree or disagree

[hushed hazel]

this conversation sucks

[pulsar cobalt]

kiri and not having electrons go extremely together though

[hushed hazel]

literally a bunch of sisyphuses arguing about who has the better rock

[pulsar cobalt]

well everyone disagrees because u have no evidence and we do

[lapis oak]

😢

[pulsar cobalt]

[mystic eagle]

Here's the loadout I used btw

For the 1:00 aureus

[spark kiln]

what’s that proving

u killed aureus really fast with a normal load out

[mystic eagle]

It's mostly just because Hellborn is on a different plane of reality that it is 3 times faster than the intended killtime

[iron dew]

i mentioned the idea of damage flattening and everyone here except for klee vehemently hates that idea apparently

[twin juniper]

I think it’s the weapon problem not loadout here

[pulsar cobalt]

its a powerful weapon with a unique gimmick that can only be done with a good player

[iron dew]

dont you just have to run into enemies

[mystic eagle]

It's the weapon's problem

[hexed basalt]

no one hates the idea please just explain what you mean by that

[lapis oak]

Without dying ye, normal players already die at ranged

[spark kiln]

idk man u can send whatever evidence u like but whenever i play calamity i need to up the boss health a good amount to have a fun time with the bosses and no i’m not minmaxing damage

[hexed basalt]

I agree qith Leon this is the stupidest conversation ever

[mystic eagle]

And when are you sending even the slightest bit of backup for your statement

[pulsar cobalt]

_ _

[spark kiln]

never

i’m playing ultrakill

[hushed hazel]

can you like

go somewhere else

[spark kiln]

no

[hushed hazel]

where we don't have to watch you continuously go in circles

[spark kiln]

isn’t boss health buffs from rev and death being removed next update btw?

or is it just damage

[hushed hazel]

there is no reason for this argument to continue neither of you are changing your stances

[mystic eagle]

The reason why some weapons are much stronger than others is because some weapons require bullshit straetegies to use them well

[hexed basalt]

Apologies for causing you trouble leon

[hushed hazel]

did you?

[lean relic]

yeah if you are get used to and master it
they become a lot stronger

[lapis oak]

Hellborn got unfucked anyways I don't wanna look at its current form anymore

[hexed basalt]

if i suppose

[lapis oak]

Total abomination of a weapon

[mystic eagle]

So called Pure Ranger weapon

[lapis oak]

🥺

[mystic eagle]

Totally doesn't have a melee attack that boosts the weapon to insane firerate and damage and is also totally not responsible for making the weapon able to use vanilla flasks

[lapis oak]

The economy needs more of Buzzkill style, not this

[iron dew]

what i mean is making calamity weapons weaker and making them closer to vanilla damage numbers so calamity doesnt have to apply 3 calamillion changes to vanilla weapons

[hushed hazel]

something something dao of pow

[mystic eagle]

Some vanilla weapons need buffs and others nerfs, same for Calamity ones

[hushed hazel]

i think that's the one that got buffed by cal to have a gorillion base damage

[mystic eagle]

If you were to take the average damage of vanilla weapons, say bye to fun times as you'll be hit with the 5000 bloat weapons

[iron dew]

vanilla weapons do not need upwards of 20-30 or possibly double damage increases

[mystic eagle]

Prehardmode summoner

[iron dew]

what does this even mean

[hushed hazel]

i agree what does this mean

[iron dew]

like are you saying that without being super duper strong calamity weapons turn bloat?? im confused

[pulsar cobalt]

tripled damage

it literally had nothing going towards it when compared to drippler crippler in vanilla

[mystic eagle]

No there's a ton vanilla weapons that serve either no purpose or to be upgraded after 5 minutes

[lapis oak]

I think she mean vanilla has too much bloat weapons that do not get balanced and left behind

[hushed hazel]

what does whether or not weapons are closer to vanilla balance wise have to do with weapon bloat

[mystic eagle]

Which makes the devs give zero shits about balancing them

[pulsar cobalt]

more damage and arguably easier to get

[hushed hazel]

ok but that doesn't really go against what midnight was saying

you can still make them not be forgettable without having to inflate their stats

[mystic eagle]

I really wouldn't say Calamity's balancing is much more flawed than vanilla's

[pulsar cobalt]

something something beam sword

[iron dew]

beam sword being slower is neat but why does it do nearly triple its normal damage

[mystic eagle]

Something something https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Vanilla_changes#Weapons

[mystic eagle]

To not make it enchanted sword #23

[twin juniper]

Dao of pow be like

[pulsar cobalt]

because its slower

if it did the same damage it would literally be worse than its vanilla counterpart

😭

[iron dew]

you can make it more interesting instead of mega inflating its damage!!

[mystic eagle]

Do you want it to literally just be another enchanted sword

[lapis oak]

Rework vanilla items?

[pulsar cobalt]

enchanted sword but hardmode

[pulsar cobalt]

so u want it to be entirely reworked?

[twin juniper]

Make it use mana

[pulsar cobalt]

how about i make YOU use mana

ur now a mage main no matter what

[twin juniper]

I’m playing summoner

[pulsar cobalt]

nop

mage

[twin juniper]

I use mana

I use slime puppet staff

[pulsar cobalt]

nop

[lapis oak]

Or maybe like new effect or fire more beams are what they mean

[twin juniper]

For cryogen

[pulsar cobalt]

must do mage dmg

[dry whale]

summons now constantly drain mana

[lapis oak]

Make it do more damage without changing the damage number

Like fire 2 beams per

[lean relic]

mana potion rework

[lapis oak]

Or something

[twin juniper]

Replace mana with durability for mage weapons

[lapis oak]

Like with hardmode ore new effects

Changing the damage number is like more simple than making a vanilla items do more interesting thing for damage

Since it's like, a vanilla item

That's probably a big reason why most of them a just stat adjustments

[iron dew]

something like cobalt gear's effects work well (tho i think the defense down is way too long)

10 seconds of -25% enemy defense is crazy

[lapis oak]

I think Calamity right now has the direction of leaving vanilla alone and have it change its things first rather than redoing them, if it's really bad then we have like hardmode ore rework but if it isn't too important then probably just minor stat adjustments

[tropic ermine]

I get that some vanilla weapons need buffs and nerfs, however
why balance in such a way that inflates the average power of weapons and bosses, just
this is why ppl say cal's balanced around itself in rev

[iron dew]

this!!!

[mystic eagle]

That's literally the whole point

[hushed hazel]

they say cal balances around itself in rev because cal does balance around itself in rev

[mystic eagle]

Expert Revengeance is the intended difficulty

[pulsar cobalt]

[hushed hazel]

balance tests and such are performed in expert rev

[mystic eagle]

It's even said in the game itself

[pulsar cobalt]

they say souls balances around itself in eternity because souls does balance around itself in eternity

[iron dew]

souls balancing is really egregious it will be a lot Less So next update

[lapis oak]

I mean

[tropic ermine]

sure, it's intended, but why does that make it good

[mystic eagle]

Literally the first thing Revengeance says when selecting it is "The intended Calamity experience!"

[hushed hazel]

i am in no way calling it good

[mystic eagle]

Every game has a difficulty they balance around

[hushed hazel]

don't get it twisted

[iron dew]

last few months have been really dedicated towards flattening everything so souls doesnt overpower vanilla and other mods

[hushed hazel]

i don't play terraria i wouldn't know whether it's good or not

[mystic eagle]

That's what Cal has been doing aswell

You can help by testing weapons

[lapis oak]

Not enough testers

[iron dew]

i would but testing is not really my thing anymore

much less damage testing

[mystic eagle]

We already tested every single weapon except Resurrection Butterfly because fuck Resurrection Butterfly

[lapis oak]

Sounds fun 😇

Over and over and over and over

[zenith basin]

what will happen to the post perforators and hive mind items now that blood samples and rotten matter are removed?

[iron dew]

you can still get the drops from their respective bosses

[lean relic]

drops iirc

[lapis oak]

Shimmer chain and Aerialite replacements

[iron dew]

you'll be able to shimmer weapons into their counterparts aswell i believe

[lapis oak]

Also most recipes will just die I think

The boss drop recipes

There's just no point for them anymore

[zenith basin]

[valid crypt]

You can shimmer boss drops for other boss drops

So

No need to craft boss drops

[lapis oak]

No not counterparts, shimmer between drops from that same boss

[iron dew]

"everything" in my instance also means accessory damage and stats across the board, too

[iron dew]

thats what i meant yeah

mb

[lapis oak]

Okk

[hexed basalt]

wow siffrin

[lapis oak]

I ate your ice cream just now

[iron dew]

why would you do that.....

[zenith basin]

uh... yeah?

[lapis oak]

😇

[wooden blade]

can you blame him

it's gettin' hot in there

[wicked pewter]

how rude !

[hexed basalt]

thats ok i dont do ice cream

[lapis oak]

Wtf L

Not my goat 😢

[hexed basalt]

lactose intolerance

and fitness

[lapis oak]

A

[hexed basalt]

b?

[tidal lodge]

C!

[summer shore]

Done

[hexed basalt]

yeah

[thorny glacier]

evasion

f

[cold breach]

So why was blood samples and rotted matter removed?

[dusk bronze]

they were literally only used to craft the weapons the bosses already dropped

[cold breach]

Ah

Makes sense

[dusk bronze]

and the summons but those can be crafted with aerialite

[valid crypt]

And woth boss drops shimmering into others (from same changelogs) no need to craft weapons

[cold breach]

I wonder what 2.1.0 gonna be? Could it finally be the dirt update?

[dusk bronze]

does sand count

[valid crypt]

Sunken sea overhaul

[dusk bronze]

cus they're adding a lotta that

[cold breach]

Is it dirt?

We need the dirt sea

We need the dirt bosses

Give us the dirt update or stop updating the mod

[analog helm]

i think silt is better

[dusk bronze]

i'm a fan of sediment personally

[analog helm]

ok but granite

[pulsar cobalt]

desert fossil

[fathom girder]

No slush fans? Really?

[late eagle]

Guh

Guys done hate me

[hexed basalt]

true

[placid wadi]

Dirtiest block shimmered into boss spawn item that spawns dirt golem boss

[white aurora]

drops an enhanced dirt wand :3

[wooden blade]

showing again thanatos without mandibles cuz idc

[lean relic]

Eagle face

[drifting quarry]

on my very first calamity playthrough and ive spent 3 hours and 47 minutes trying to beat the devour of gods. does anyone else have this much trouble with this guy or am i really just that shit at the game?

[desert path]

stapler face

[hushed hazel]

DoG is generally agreed upon to be not exactly the best fight in the mod

he's getting a rework next update to make the fight tolerable until his actual, proper rework rolls around with the distortion later on

[cyan panther]

It got pointed out to me that his bottom eyes are uneven and now I can’t unsee it

[prisma cipher]

#calamity-mod-talk

[wooden blade]

wait i never nooticed that

[mystic eagle]

[hushed hazel]

i knew this already

[mystic eagle]

Can we swap 2 pixels around to fix this

[hushed hazel]

only because i remember "fixing" it being suggested and rejected right after 1.5 dropped

so i guess it's on purpose?

[cyan panther]

Why tho

[hushed hazel]

someone who was actually a dev at the time can probably answer that

[mystic eagle]

Iban did a little trolling

[fathom girder]

imperfection shows character

[dull heart]

it gives a combat advantage clearly

[fathom girder]

+5% view angle but only on the left

[brave star]

I can definitely tell the lower eyes are un-even

[azure oak]

thanatos got corrective eye surgery

[dusk bronze]

holy fuck THANK YOU

IT'S GLORIOUS

[hushed hazel]

i can only assume this is the reason

something something he strives for perfection but he can never fully get there

[vivid hemlock]

im deep frying your nervous system

[brave star]

Infinite thanks for fixing the lil bug that infinitely haunts us

[pearl sentinel]

i think they just made a mistake while making the sprite 😭

[brave star]

Deep fries all ur scoogs

[dusk bronze]

all the shading is asymmetrical

it's really really fucking stupid

[hushed hazel]

what, the shading being asymmetrical?

[naive ice]

Yay

[hushed hazel]

the eye thing is kinda odd but i don't see how the shading is stupid

[naive ice]

Why do the eyes make me uncomfortable

[wooden blade]

Cuz they're not properly equal to eachother lmao

[lean relic]

Also it looks like two eyes(the small one) are on cheeks front cheekbones

[dusk bronze]

no other worm boss is like that

all the shading is mirrored

[hushed hazel]

ok but why is that a problem

[dusk bronze]

because it looks bad

[summer shore]

if anything that just makes thanatos cooler

[hushed hazel]

speak on that

i really do not see how thanatos not adhering to completely arbitrary shading "rules" set by other worms make him look bad

even then it's not even every other worm

sw isn't mirrored either

[dusk bronze]

one, the light source is inconsistent on the static sprite

two, if thanatos is moving right then the light source effectively switches sides to the bottom

[hushed hazel]

is it?

also yeah i guess the light source does, indeed, switch sides depending on the direction he's moving

still can't really see the problem here

[dusk bronze]

on the body, the light looks like it's coming from up and left

on the head, it looks like it's almost directly in front of the face

[hushed hazel]

not really seeing it

[dusk bronze]

ok

[hushed hazel]

iunno man i still don't think it's as much of a problem as you're saying

[dusk bronze]

it's not gamebreaking or anything but it would look better if they just

didn't do that

[summer shore]

Disagreeable I think it looks way more awesome this way

[hushed hazel]

yeag

gives him more of a unique look

more sauce, as the kids say

[summer shore]

For draedon's final trick he gives this worm boss unique shading ™

+120% damage resistance

[spark kiln]

damn…

your worm sprite WILL be mirrored because red decided to flip the eater of worlds sprite 20 years ago

[fossil dew]

Who sprited the exo mechs

[hushed hazel]

uhhhhhh don't remember who did the base sprites anymore

but pretty sure the animations were iban

[summer shore]

thanatos was vaikya

Not sure about thanimations

[hushed hazel]

iban when he has to give the nuke arm one hundred and two frames of animation because he's bored

[dusk bronze]

tragic

[brave star]

22 slavery

[spark kiln]

nitro made the concept art tho i think

[summer shore]

Yes

Nitro made thanatos and twins concepts

Idk who made ares it probably says on the wiki

[stone zephyr]

genuinely the exo sprites and anims are insane

the amount of effort had to be crazy

[pseudo vector]

the sprites are probably the only thing about the exos that won't be changing

[stone zephyr]

exciting

[brave star]

Will Thanatos still get the even eyes treatment tho without changing its actual design?

[pseudo vector]

idk

[lean relic]

exo mechs did have resprite 0 times
Let's go with that 🫸

Need to find Ares balling gif

[azure oak]

has anything about the rework been discussed or is it just for the future

[wooden blade]

their design is already cool af so they don't really need a resprite anyway

[sand dome]

ares was a lot of iterations but iirc some of the original concepts were vai

[jovial tusk]

Hello c-deez

[azure oak]

miracle mech ares.....

[fathom girder]

The sprites really aren't the issue with exos no

it's the execution

[placid wadi]

In what way is execution wrong?

[azure oak]

still very excited to see what the exo mechs could be like

[placid wadi]

Is it about the fight itself?

[azure oak]

yeah

[placid wadi]

The main problem with exo-mechs is that there are plenty of ways you can structure a fight with them

solo? duo? all three? or maybe something more similar to a crazy dance like fight where they constantly switch places between each other?

[dull heart]

the current fight order is fine

it's just that none of them are actually like... interesting or fun

[azure oak]

i actually like that the fight has that

[dull heart]

they are the peak of "just get really fast and run away"

[azure oak]

also there only 1 mech that isnt mostly just pinned to the screen

[dull heart]

that's not inherently an issue honestly

they could have interesting attacks while being stuck to the screen

[azure oak]

i'd at least like artemis and apollo to move around a lot since they're meant to be the agile ones

[placid wadi]

That's why i find infernum/wotm execution on their fight pretty well made

[kind tinsel]

OPINION DISREGARDED

[fathom girder]

Ares' arms were made so that they didn't have to be static for example

and yet

ares' arms

are completely static and the fatass sticks to the top of the screen

[hasty tangle]

im guessing theres also no real eta for when exos will be reworked (in terms of updates) since theyre not tied to a biome, right?

[dusk bronze]

thankfully png ares is dying in sso

[fathom girder]

good

[dusk bronze]

it'll move around slightly

[fathom girder]

true melee wins

[rose laurel]

I wouldn't say anytime soon, I am very reluctant on reworking Exos

Not because I think they're good, fuck no

[fathom girder]

they seem like quite a lot of work yea

[rose laurel]

Exos are the final Bosses alongside Calamitas and have a tremendous amount of complexity in how they have to be designed

[placid wadi]

so the main issue is their stiffness

[fathom girder]

the main issue with ARES is his stiffness

[kind tinsel]

complexity

[rose laurel]

Making four Bosses work together is, to put it simply

Hard

[fathom girder]

Thanatos is destroyer 2 and only really has one threatening move, the omega laser

[kind tinsel]

they don't really do that at all tbh

[fathom girder]

I don't even know what the twins do I just fly up and down and they never hit me

[kind tinsel]

thanatos pisses me off for being nothingburger central

[placid wadi]

shoot flames

and lasers

[dusk bronze]

source?

[rose laurel]

Ok but I think most people on the team want Exos to have a part of the fight with the three of them

[azure oak]

one shoots flames, the other shoots laser, the flames guy also shoots missiles sometimes

[kind tinsel]

who the fuck is osmosis jones

[rose laurel]

Basically, what I mean here is that Exos are really fucking hard to design and we need experience designing Boss fights first instead of diving head -first into them

[placid wadi]

and exos are pretty big as well

[rose laurel]

Which is why I think their rework will take a while

[hasty tangle]

yeah, thats totally understandable

[placid wadi]

taking huge chunk of a screen and not allowing for much movement variety

[hasty tangle]

they sound like a nightmare to rework

[placid wadi]

without making their attacks unfair because you cannot see them

[rose laurel]

Not really, I think we could make something really good but also not that complex, like

[hexed basalt]

thanatos is actually armored digger 5

[kind tinsel]

LAURENCE FISHBURNE III? HE WAS IN OSMOSIS JONES?

[rose laurel]

WotM Exos isn't a really complex fight all things considered

[kind tinsel]

lucille exo autism

[dusk bronze]

wrong chat i think

[fathom girder]

that's crazy

[jovial tusk]

Real

[kind tinsel]

no its very important

[rose laurel]

But that's because it also doesn't really fully commit to some stuff like having them all at once (iirc idr now)

[lyric trellis]

It does have them all at once for a phase

[rose laurel]

Ok so I remembered wrong

[azure oak]

there's still a moment where all mechs are on screen but it's still a bit hard to keep track of everything for me

[lyric trellis]

Not the best phase but it’s there

[kind tinsel]

think of one really complex attack and then split the roles smh

[plush carbon]

It's a single phase that has all 3 exos

[placid wadi]

it's mostly chaotical mess

[lyric trellis]

Might be thinking of Infernum Exos who don’t have a mayhem phase

[plush carbon]

It's also the weakest phase of the fight

[placid wadi]

i cannot even see what is happening

[rose laurel]

I didn't even know Infernum Exos didn't have a Mayhem Phase ngl

But yeah, Exos aren't like

[plush carbon]

It's better than basecal Exos' mayhem at least

[rose laurel]

Omg this is so hard to work with I want to bash my head against a wall

[dusk bronze]

me neither and i've fought them

[kind tinsel]

cal in a nutshell

[rose laurel]

They're more like

"Damn there's a lot"

[kind tinsel]

cal in a nutshell the second

[fathom girder]

*flies diagonally*

all projectiles dodged

there's so much but it's not mechanically very much to worry about

[lyric trellis]

Mayhem running in a straight line 🔥

[hasty tangle]

plus they also kinda have the same issue as dog where theyre important to the mod, so they ought to be a good fight

[placid wadi]

Literally yes

[hasty tangle]

so i can get wanting to have more experience before redesigning how they work

[placid wadi]

you can do entire phase hitless by running in straight line and hopping a bit

[kind tinsel]

fffabsol

[fathom girder]

Exos are certainly better than DoG at least, so it ain't an emergency that they're a somewhat simple boss rn

[kind tinsel]

low bar

[rose laurel]

Also because Exos are literally the fucking final Bosses, we want them to be as good as possible so it's best to set down a foundation of our design, standards and all that stuff before tackling them

[hasty tangle]

yeah

[kind tinsel]

abysmal bar

[analog helm]

Draedon's magnum opus, the all-powerful exomechanical trio vs the movement keys

[kind tinsel]

gonna be real ive never enjoyed any cal bosses

[rose laurel]

Yeah, Exos are like

Bad

[plush carbon]

At least nobody actually fights Exos as the final boss so there's that

[rose laurel]

DoG is fucking abysmal

[kind tinsel]

mao

[rose laurel]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/704694434964439071/1284577245796634675/cat_gets_splash_stupid_idot.gif

[placid wadi]

Nobody but me

[fathom girder]

abysmao

[placid wadi]

Always playing Calamity to eventually beat Exo-mechs

[kind tinsel]

i am spriting abysmao

[placid wadi]

and skipping SCal

[rose laurel]

I don't think he's the worst Boss in the Mod because Signus and Ravager exist but like

Considering what he is

[kind tinsel]

its too late now i have aseprite open, my pen is touching the tablet

[rose laurel]

He might as well be

[left nexus]

always play calamity to explore abyss

[analog helm]

mmm water

[placid wadi]

Gotta visit Jared

[left nexus]

whos jared?

[kind tinsel]

the abyss is tunnel central

[spark kiln]

what that mean

[rose laurel]

He's a bottom tier Boss for sure, while also having been the face of the Mod for most of its history

[placid wadi]

Eidolon Wyrm

[kind tinsel]

its literally tunnel central

[left nexus]

ah

[kind tinsel]

its a tunnel

[dusk bronze]

dog isn't the worst quality but he's the worst because he's the most disappointing

[kind tinsel]

HE IS THE WORST

[spark kiln]

i guess

[spark kiln]

ravager, astrum deus:

[kind tinsel]

then again all bosses are to me

[rose laurel]

And the only reason I have any shred of fun in that fight is because I purposefully play it wrong to have him chase me down so I can keep ramming him

[plush carbon]

I don't mind the Abyss cause Infernum's shown me it could be way worse

[hexed basalt]

current dog rework is good and fun

[placid wadi]

DoG is the worst because it's both necessary for progression as well as having annoying one hit attack that he spams

[rose laurel]

I agree

[fathom girder]

(his got damned face)

[kind tinsel]

misinformation and propoganda

[hexed basalt]

ok buddy

[dusk bronze]

current in dev build

[kind tinsel]

i shan't be decieved by thee

[dusk bronze]

for sso

[rose laurel]

Didn't know you played the Dev build

[kind tinsel]

the only build is in my head

with the arsenal social media

app

[spark kiln]

ngl the idea was cool but yea it just felt jank especially the minibosses

[fathom girder]

So is doze the resident worm boss guy in the devteam now

[rose laurel]

The Abyss is like, pretty alright but I think it could use some restructuring and also generally have

Good enemies

[kind tinsel]

behated biome

[fathom girder]

maybe a stealth mechanic that's relevant idk

that would be cool

[left nexus]

i like the abyss so much i wish there was more of it

[kind tinsel]

where are the dev demolitions

[hexed basalt]

look underneath your chair

[rose laurel]

Whatever the fuck I've been doing with recipes

That's Dev demolition

I haven't touched them in a while though

Because my PC exploded

[kind tinsel]

the ogscule is there i must not look

there are days where the evil corn feels better than calamity

i understand not to trust its temptations

[azure oak]

still find it kinda funny that draedon's lil experiment is sending his giant robots to kill you

how does it help him figure out that we're a "catalyst"? idk but he's the smart one so i trust him

[placid wadi]

doesn't he already considers you a catalyst even before the fight?

[mystic eagle]

Literally Draedon

Ah, this person is getting so strong, maybe even worthy of becoming my test subject. The time has come to wait for 5 years as this person hasn't even interacted with my constructs in the slightest. Their book called Bug Checklist is sure to help them out on their journey to face my ultimate mechanical opera. I must return to my slumber for the coming 5 years.

[placid wadi]

We interacted with them tho

[cunning sequoia]

the guy has lived for like 6 centuries he's allowed to be a bit silly

[placid wadi]

normal mechs, plaguebringer, astrum aureus they are all his creations

[valid crypt]

Teleport in abyss

[placid wadi]

and he has a tracker on them for sure

so he knows that something suddenly began killing his creations one by one

[azure oak]

also he probably knows we're breaking into his labs to get the schematics in the first place

[pseudo vector]

can attest as someone who just beat it again

first time killing him on death btw

[silk terrace]

time to buff it

[hasty tangle]

and then not test it before release, im sure its fine

[pseudo vector]

imma tell you guys right now new death mode dog is simultaneously fucking absurdly brutal but also so much fun

[dusty tinsel]

Should remove dog

clearly a useless boss

[azure oak]

good to hear

[lyric trellis]

Cosmic guardians

[mystic eagle]

Let cosmic guardians live

[stray lotus]

is the wotg black hole exponential in growth or does it ever stop?

[mystic eagle]

#calamity-addon-talk

[stray lotus]

its kinda a spoiler for wotg but ok

[hasty tangle]

the channel is called calamity spoiler talk

and wotg is not calamity

[mystic eagle]

Even if it was a spoiler for base Calamity, then it wouldn't go here

[pulsar cobalt]

me when the Please keep all Calamity and vanilla spoiler talk in this channel! Spoilers include: #changelogs content, teasers revealed by the devs, "State of the Game" posts, and new content added in any recently-released updates.

[dusk bronze]

reading makes me break out in hives

[mystic eagle]

Does every channel need a reminder that addon stuff goes to #calamity-addon-talk

[pulsar cobalt]

yes

[earnest comet]

he went mad but got bored of that and became sane

[dense sundial]

wh-gh-HUH

source

[dusk bronze]

one sec

[earnest comet]

well luckily, since that time people have figured out better architecture for designing bosses where multiple different NPCs need to “coordinate”

so ignoring the whole designing the boss part, at least it isn’t an impossible task to program it

[dusk bronze]

marked as implemented

[misty wren]

can confirm, i made that suggestion

[lapis oak]

mmm, poiler talk

[late eagle]

Where's polier

We need to talk about him

[boreal edge]

Kiri now has polio

[lapis oak]

😭

too evil

[valid crypt]

Dont worry malaria will help

The polio

[lyric trellis]

Seems a bit off but sure

[fathom girder]

giving ares four nuke arms

[pseudo vector]

hi i'm back lol

[dull heart]

can confirm

wait i had affliction on 😢

[lapis oak]

L

where your wacro slot

[dull heart]

wacro would be too powerful

[lapis oak]

smh

[dull heart]

i was doing dashless and also limiting hook use

[lapis oak]

OP must use

[dull heart]

wacro would genuinely have made this so much easier that's not a joke

wacro + dissonance

i forgot Omega Blue armor was a thing until attempt 169, and forgot about ripper upgrades until attempt 180

[halcyon seal]

Wacro being a good accessory in SSO is extremely cursed

[lapis oak]

I've been using wacro it's kinda a pain ngl

need that reel in reel out function right now

[dull heart]

but uh, for a dashless nohit death dog gets flipped on its head

i found the hardest phase to be phase 1

and half of my deaths probably were to phase 1

(specifically blue)

[lapis oak]

blue 😨

[shell sapphire]

Blue

[cobalt wharf]

holy melting

[dull heart]

true

[cobalt wharf]

show the contrib spread yummers

[lapis oak]

also new DoG line dropped

[dull heart]

i don't have it but it would have been almost entirely the uh

[lapis oak]

or rather, "new"

[dull heart]

insidous impaler

[cobalt wharf]

i would think omega blue tentacle base dmg needs a nerf on account of the new ai

[lyric trellis]

Missing a certain best damage accessory in the game….

[dull heart]

OH MY

[raw falcon]

guh is that rewritten dialogue

[dull heart]

i forgot that existed

i need to go redo this one second

affliction dying

[cobalt wharf]

what

[raw falcon]

rip affliction

mid item tbh

[lyric trellis]

Could refer to 2 accessories actually

[dull heart]

fixed

happy?

hold up i have 105% crit now oops

oh well idc

[spark kiln]

dialogue leak

[raw falcon]

real

I want this guy to trash talk me like a cod lobby

[vivid hemlock]

yeah the dialogue got rewritten

[lyric trellis]

Very good

[rich ginkgo]

affliction?? like, like the clothing brand

🥺🥺

[dull heart]

no

[dull heart]

not when i'm playing melee

[dense sundial]

dog dialogue 🥀

...diadog? can i call it diadog?

dogalogue?

[raw falcon]

dog vs phosphorescent gauntlet who would win

[brave star]

Absolute cinema

[brave star]

Can I (or we) mention DoG getting quote rewrites on DoG page

[dull heart]

on what dog page

[brave star]

In the future content doc

[lapis oak]

this has been talked about before

[dull heart]

yeah that's been known before

[brave star]

Oh ok

Thx for the reminder

But I’m also wondering, if your name is …, does that make u the REAL Nameless-

[arctic cliff]

Wacro?

[dull heart]

wulfrum Acrobatics Pack

[arctic cliff]

oh

lmao

[lean verge]

that's a fun name

I desperately want someone to make a whole parkour map based around Wacro

[rich ginkgo]

nooo what happened to wap

[dull heart]

you're being banned

[rich ginkgo]

frick

[arctic cliff]

quick spout a random volcano fact before you get banned

[fathom girder]

Why is he honest tf

[rich ginkgo]

but i dont know anything about volcanos 💔

[fathom girder]

"You've gone farther than most, don't give up" sir aren't you supposed to be trying to kill me

[rich ginkgo]

we need a volcano in cal that’d be dope actually

im a genius

[arctic cliff]

you surely know something about mount st helens

[rich ginkgo]

brimstone crags volcano

[fathom girder]

yeah let's shove a volcano in hell

...

[rich ginkgo]

yep

[halcyon seal]

this is after the calamity christmas special

[rich ginkgo]

sounds about right

[halcyon seal]

so dog's more kind than he was before

[fathom girder]

the ghost of future dog past

[pearl sentinel]

idk what this means but welcome back 🔥

[pseudo vector]

basically i was gonna release my own album with my calamity stuff but that album has been merged into the main second calamity album

[keen zodiac]

sulfur surf board

[dusk bronze]

poiler

[mystic eagle]

A Godseeker's End will be a real song

Thus confirming the godseeker will meet his end

[keen zodiac]

all i can see is he see someone finally surpass him and he can finally disapear

[inner thunder]

no we're the godseeker and he just 1 shots us for even trying

[fathom girder]

he laughs at the player

entire screen explodes

[silk terrace]

coward, this is the only real loadout

[summer shore]

Flash ring looks off

off center I mean

[dull heart]

this goes so hard wait

except the elysian aegis

[summer shore]

Did eye of golem get reworked too

[dull heart]

I totally forgot AFR and Regenerator are things ngl

[silk terrace]

it uh... definitely got changed.

[dull heart]

true

[dusk bronze]

what's AFR

[dull heart]

I know I should nerf it but part of me doesn't want to nerf eye of the golem

just let it have a time to shine

[silk terrace]

you're right doze i can probably drop aegis for belt

[dull heart]

Belt actually seems so broken for dog

Iron Boots too (those need a nerf)

[summer shore]

I knew it

Why would anyone use it over destroyer emblem

[dull heart]

Well there's

Certainly a reason now

[summer shore]

drop the reason gng

[stone zephyr]

spoile

[inner thunder]

why

[inner thunder]

why

[dull heart]

🤐

[inner thunder]

bruh

[stone zephyr]

so much seems changed its got me hyped

[inner thunder]

don't be hyped

they nerfed Corinth prime on dog

[dull heart]

The fact Sunny's screenshot isn't a meme loadout is

So peak

It's a genuine build

[stone zephyr]

idc about nerfs as long as theres new things

[fathom girder]

Health tank build?

[halcyon seal]

I can understand eye of the golem but I draw the line at regenator

[fathom girder]

Health tank

[summer shore]

Regenator got reworked

I don't remember what it does but I've seen it

[lapis oak]

leak it

[gritty torrent]

182 attempts for dashless deathmode dog isn't that much

[summer shore]

7 kromer

[lyric trellis]

Nohit builds in 2026

Who’s ready

[shell sapphire]

What is the ghost ring???????

[summer shore]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1072667620882522136/1337606604484382780/image.png?ex=6882e7ba&is=6881963a&hm=a7f0534ba7e7b11bc3ccf7f0d0c8b569fdfdbf5a210d2cf776732a60f4586361&

Tiercord is public (afaik) this should be fine

[lyric trellis]

Well

[summer shore]

This is an old screenshot idk if it's still like this or not

[gritty torrent]

Wait isn't it like super broken for nohit loadouts

[lapis oak]

Ataraxia in tiercord ew

what other things in tiercord that also not here

[summer shore]

I don't know when or why I'm there

But I am

[hasty tangle]

you would need to build towards it, wouldnt you?

[lyric trellis]

@silk terrace is Altraxia getting exploded or will he live

[gritty torrent]

Regen potion heart lamp and a campfire

[summer shore]

I will leak everything

[late eagle]

Do it

[lapis oak]

u found anything else in tiercord?

[summer shore]

Plenty

[hasty tangle]

but is that enough to justify a full acc slot

[summer shore]

I'll wait on this before anything else though

[silk terrace]

1. who sent this
2. send them to me and i'll sign off on stuff

[gritty torrent]

Definitely

[summer shore]

xyk

[lyric trellis]

Don’t leak rain armor or you’ll die

[gritty torrent]

I'll make it work

[silk terrace]

that's fine then

[summer shore]

And sure

[dull heart]

This is reworked dog and dashless so

[summer shore]

Dw that one's for the real ones

[dull heart]

It isn't public actually

[summer shore]

how did I get in

I forgot

[dull heart]

dunno

[lyric trellis]

Rain armor feels like a doze idea but xyk made it

[dull heart]

YEAH

[silk terrace]

also yes regenator is likely the best accessory in the game now

[gritty torrent]

And with dashes it would probably be around 100. The average for current death dog is like 200 so

[silk terrace]

the damage% numbers you can get is... very silly

[dull heart]

with dashes it would have been sub 50

[gritty torrent]

Speaking of, what parts of new devourer's kit are actually public

[dull heart]

for me

[dull heart]

Nothing really

Just the background

[lapis oak]

also what is AFR

[gritty torrent]

Does he still shoot these fuckass stupid lasers from his body?

[lapis oak]

I just backread a bit was busy building

[arctic turtle]

Does he devour

[lyric trellis]

Got lucky (I just posted a link in the nohit tierlist thread when it was closed and you joined then)

[gritty torrent]

Or was that a change that'll still stay even in sso

[dull heart]

No

[gritty torrent]

Okay cool so the rework is automatically better

[dull heart]

No

[summer shore]

Ise

[dull heart]

Fabsol removed the body lasers

And it made dog WORSE

[summer shore]

So is there just no way to join it now then

[dull heart]

Significantly so

[lapis oak]

Ataraxia got access to the basement and started vague posting immediately

[gritty torrent]

Lasers weren't a good part of the fight

[lapis oak]

tch tch

[dull heart]

to the point I had to rework him bc it couldn't be public

[dull heart]

Yes, but they're necessary with the current dog ai

[summer shore]

rain armor is not as major as you think it is

[dull heart]

or else the fight is literally nothing happening for 20 seconds at a time

Bc he just flys away

[summer shore]

And I mean it literally there's just not much to it

[lyric trellis]

I mean people can just ask it’s not like it’s super secret, I say so on the tierlist info sheet

[gritty torrent]

His current ai is hot garbage, lasers were just another projectile you had to dodge occasionally

[summer shore]

True

[dull heart]

Altraxia getting to see the exaltation rework demo

[gritty torrent]

I hope the rework is something more than projectile spam

[summer shore]

You're right

I haven't seen it yet

[gritty torrent]

Something that fits the supposed devourer™ of gods lore-wise

[summer shore]

Kiri go nohit 13 bosses and join nohitcord for spoilers

YOU too can vaguepost

[lapis oak]

f u

[silk terrace]

i've spoken with xyk, no tiercord is not public and anything he sends there should not be considered public.
don't worry alt, that was my bad for signing off on it before asking him

[lapis oak]

u smelly

[summer shore]

Alright I won't do it again

[gritty torrent]

Bro's built like asgore's truck for nothing 😭

[silk terrace]

thank you

[lyric trellis]

It’s true, needs void of calamity and extinction for when times were truly desperate though

[stone zephyr]

i could join the nohitseever but im lazy

[silk terrace]

again, my bad

[summer shore]

I should probably have asked first byea

[lapis oak]

generational leak

[summer shore]

Can't believe I've become a vagueposter

[lapis oak]

we got spoiler

[lyric trellis]

Vagueposting: dog

[summer shore]

You live long enough to see yourself become the villain or something

[gritty torrent]

I see a suspicious lack of seraph tracers and a billion DSAs there

[lapis oak]

you followed Optrix, disappointed in u

[silk terrace]

thank you for asking after the fact though

[boreal pewter]

I thought about it but then I got lazy

[stone zephyr]

optrix the goat flopp

[shell sapphire]

[summer shore]

One comment about rain armor and you say this smh

[lyric trellis]

Rain armor is actually boss rush viable don't tell anyone

[gritty torrent]

Does it track the weather irl and then it rains so badly your computer explodes and bosses get oneshot?

[summer shore]

it makes you really good at risk of rain

[dull heart]

i am messing around with some ideas for visuals

no promises anything gets in from this specifically but i'm learning some stuff

[lapis oak]

visual touch ups are always welcome!

[summer shore]

I forgot does this thing still upgrade into virid

[dull heart]

no

[summer shore]

Damn

[dull heart]

although i have an idea where it could

[gritty torrent]

Is it not virid?

Kinda reminds me of roaring knight's attack

[summer shore]

igneous doesn't upgrade into anything currently

virid is terraprisma upgrade

[lyric trellis]

It was but not anymore

Now it's just Uelibloom

[summer shore]

Wow damn

virid keeps getting shafted

[dull heart]

at least it's not like it was on release

[tropic ermine]

I kinda dig virid's original orbiting attack ngl
just needs a smaller orbit at a point other than yourself

[dusk bronze]

if any cal weapon were still the same as on release i would cease living

oop ping

[summer shore]

Deathstare rod

[lapis oak]

the goat

[cobalt wharf]

makes it more unique of a minion then it is rn

the movement itself was just janky though

like if its circling around the player, ok cool, get close to deal damage
but theres fewer of them and they move in this weird ellipse so half the time you werent getting good damage in

[arctic cliff]

virid vanguard kinda resembles a shield and is called vanguard, yet it just summons giant swords

the real rework idea would be to make it a sword and shield combo

[tropic ermine]

or straight up just that ye

I like both attack patterns equally well I hope a fixed version makes it into one of doze's wacky upcoming summons or otherwise

[main pivot]

Tomorrow

[dusk bronze]

holy hell

[molten grove]

Tomorrow…

[lapis oak]

t...tomorrow!??

[rose radish]

Deltarune?

[stuck kite]

silk