lore-discussion

[west plume]

ilmeris (the lake) used to be connected to the ocean. it's very possible tyrian could have once been oceanic and then moved over to ilmeris later

the sunken sea is the remains of ilmeris which was underneath the lake

[timber glacier]

Wait that would make tyrian a coloniser

[west plume]

yeah

[wanton pendant]

I knew he was English.

[timber glacier]

Also do we know if like ontilou was like a jellyfish person or what pre-ascension

[west plume]

otonilou was always a jellyfish

[long bloom]

yeah she barely changed appearance

[timber glacier]

So like are there like smart jellyfish people or what

[sinful adder]

It's a good thing Anahita didn't take the dragon of tides soul

[west plume]

yeah

[long bloom]

there's smart seahorse people

[cosmic zenith]

Indeed, she ""traded"" power over wind and rainfall to have a more complete dominion over electricity (which is a power that gets more busted the more you look into it)

[timber glacier]

Yeah but like jellyfish literally have no actual brains

[west plume]

theres an arbitrary amount of smart marine animals

[long bloom]

good thing she's not a jellyfish

she's a person that looks like a jellyfish

[timber glacier]

Also I just had the worst related thought ||If Amidas had kids would he be pregnant like seahorses do||

[sinful adder]

There's a distinction to be made between colonizing an uninhabited place, and immigrating peacefully to a new place, and colonizing somewhere in a way that displaces or kills the natives.

[long bloom]

yes

he mentions this in game

[west plume]

this is a very personal question you should discuss with amidias on your own time

[storm hamlet]

male seahorses do not get pregnant they just carry the eggs to protect them

[timber glacier]

I don’t want to be the kinda person who goes around asking men if they can get pregnant thats weird

[cosmic zenith]

I actually ran into this word recently
But I haven't done the proper research to check if it would logically be Ilmeris' case

[west plume]

i thought that ilmeris' oceanic connection was thru above ground rivers which is why scourges were able to get there

[sinful adder]

Luckily he gives you an indirect answer

[leaden bridge]

Wants to repost sunless sea teaser iban drawing award

[cosmic zenith]

In the past afaik

[sinful adder]

One of the scourges can just plain fly so that's not a big issue

[cosmic zenith]

Which yeah, would be when the scourges came to populate it

[leaden bridge]

You're not safe

[west plume]

i really don't think aquatic scourge can canonically fly and that's just a measure made to make it so it's more difficult to escape it since u have wings in hardmode

[timber glacier]

It can just jump really high

[long bloom]

give aquatic scourge flying fish ai

[timber glacier]

They are actually a high jump athlete

[timber glacier]

[west plume]

we can't like force you to fight it in the water so u shouldn't treat it flying up in the sky to get you as canon

[long bloom]

infernum

(it becomes immune to damage if you're not underwater)

[sinful adder]

Ok fair but on that topic

[long bloom]

extremely shitty solution but it sure is a solution

[sinful adder]

I have repeatedly seen the aquatic Scourge just decide to fly 10000 blocks off the map unprompted

[timber glacier]

Just say like ahanhita wanted to fuck with you and randomly decided to make that fish constant;y covered in water so it can keep “flying” boom problem solved

[west plume]

blame The Horse

[sinful adder]

And then eventually fly back down later

[long bloom]

syrup fix my bugs

[west plume]

prop flying in half life 2

[long bloom]

cover yourself in bacon oil

[sinful adder]

It's convenient when that happens because I can get an extra 30 seconds to heal

[west plume]

i think DoG also has the randomly fucking off bug

it's something inherent to Horsed worms

[timber glacier]

Warm water also rises in water, so you could actually just jump into a pot of boiling water to fly in rain

[sinful adder]

I haven't had it happen with DoG ever unfortunately

[eager bluff]

iirc this is because of the way its ai is coded its all on timers so when the timers overlap in just the right way it goes into the fucking stratosphere

[long bloom]

i thought dog was fed worm dehorser

[west plume]

there are still remnants left sadly

[long bloom]

he needs another dose

dose of doze

[leaden bridge]

Dude you guys know that one bug I've seen with both desert scourge and dog where they will just like stop functioning property and start ragdolling in a really weird way

[sinful adder]

DoG is like a heat seeking supersonic missile that tracks you down in 10 seconds no matter how far you teleport and rams you at mach 12

[west plume]

imagine how efficient he is at eating gods tho

[timber glacier]

Don’t be Silly they arent bugs theyre clearly fish

[sinful adder]

True!

[eager bluff]

this is the same reason slime god despawning happens timers line up wrong and it goes at mach fuck offscreen and despawns

[west plume]

the Horse hates state machines and refused to use them

[feral skiff]

and then you just ram into his face 39,2929 times to win. checkmate “Devourer of Gods”

[west plume]

we all suffer the consequences

[timber glacier]

Honestly like some bosses fleeing would make sense but like suck in gameplay and should probably never be included

[long bloom]

slime god

[west plume]

i don't think we should add features that make the game worse

[eager bluff]

75% chance each fight that the boss despawns when you get it to 10% hp because it got scared

[west plume]

boss goes AHHHHH and runs away and you have to chase it

[timber glacier]

Maybe I could see like maybe a boss maybe idk being “spareable” by letting if live for long enough at low h- but like it isn’t needed

[long bloom]

pre 1.5 yharon

[west plume]

Calamitas: Wow Terrarian, You're pretty strong! Cya later I'll be going to my cave (starts floating off slowly)

[eager bluff]

this is a good feature with no forseeable issues at all you can hire me now

[timber glacier]

Why don’t the bosses just drink a recall potion are they dumb

[long bloom]

yes

[sinful adder]

Did I tell you about my astrum deus deshittification idea

[eager bluff]

"but what if i need it later"

[long bloom]

idr

[timber glacier]

Magic mirror though

Or ice mirror can never forget about ice mirror

[west plume]

they think it's like the wall of flesh where if they try to escape the player will use their extremely long tongue to drag them back

[leaden bridge]

Can we talk about teleportation magic

[eager bluff]

they never found one

[leaden bridge]

I don't think you guys are ready to talk about teleportation magic

[timber glacier]

Recipe

[timber glacier]

They have a recipe now

[plucky juniper]

you can

[sinful adder]

Make it not directly fight you and instead you chase it to shoot infection goop off of it. Like the malice infected dragon in botw

[eager bluff]

diamonds are too expensive have you seen how much a tiny one costs

[leaden bridge]

There's so many things you can do

You can do anything but like not in a jevil way a hopecore billions must smile way

[west plume]

we can't do it in a fun way unless we just lock u under the water

[plucky juniper]

infernum did this for its aquatic scourge fight until its final phase and that went well (aside from needing to alter Sulphur Sea to make it fair)

[timber glacier]

My face when I drink a drink made of a purple fish and get trapped in a random cave under 500 feet of stone

[west plume]

i think we only want to do fun things so we have a fun mod

[sinful adder]

Astrum deus crawltipede AI

[plucky juniper]

okay to be fair that wasnt really aquatic it disabled the normal water movement

[west plume]

we technically have the ability to Do anything but not all of it would be fun. some of it would just be really dumb and stupid and hated and people would want us to remove it immediately

[plucky juniper]

but you get the point its entirely doable

[timber glacier]

😨 horrifying idea

[plucky juniper]

people arent going to despise you if you can make an interesting ACTUALLY aquatic scourge fight

[sinful adder]

Shoot the correct segment to advance the fight

[timber glacier]

So just storm weaver phase one and thanatos

[plucky juniper]

wasnt this DoG part of the time pre-Brainstorm

[west plume]

aquatic scourge cannot be an interesting fight in it's current form factor. locking you underwater will not change this fact

[sinful adder]

Well, more like the "stays above you" part and not the "rams you" part

[leaden bridge]

you could spend a year developing a brand new endgame where you get the option to ascend with yharons soul or not and it's differing paths that change gameplay in meaningful ways with pros and cons for both but you aren't doing that, as tragic as that is for us all

[sinful adder]

Also it would actually be decent if it was a different segment throughout the fight, not the same one

Like uh

[west plume]

u already revive when u die what would you do with it

[plucky juniper]

form factor?

[west plume]

do we give the player Idle Transfiguration

[sinful adder]

Well just look at the thing botw does

[leaden bridge]

I don't know make some shit up I don't care let's be free and have fun

[timber glacier]

That would be really similar to thanatos though and would feel kinda odd

[eager bluff]

especially when locking you underwater isnt something fun unless you specifically make it so that you being locked underwater doesnt actually mean anything in which case why would you make it underwater if it isnt gonna do anything with the fact that its underwater

[leaden bridge]

u can't deny it would be cool and aura to pull that off

[sinful adder]

No because Thanatos does it in a super lame-ass way where it's just a wave of segments that gradually opens and closes

[plucky juniper]

okay but you can still rework Aquatic Scourge into a fun fight and be underwater

[sinful adder]

Make it a separate health bar for each segment

[west plume]

being underwater is totally accessory to it being a fun fight

[leaden bridge]

Big e likes the idea and he's like top 5 calamity developers so im right

[timber glacier]

But yeah uhhh calamity should add a chartreuse biome in the jungle that hase chartreuse colour versions of all jungle mobs

[sinful adder]

The health bar represents the infection being shot off

[west plume]

i would very much like the player to be able to ascend using a dragon soul

[feral skiff]

are you /j or /srs

[west plume]

i think yharon being the last dragon kind of limits us but we might be able to change it in the future

[timber glacier]

The issue is how would we learn to do that

[feral skiff]

theres no way

[leaden bridge]

you can do anything

[leaden bridge]

(referring to the possibility to write or develop around literally any problem given the time, resources, and willingness

[west plume]

get draedon to wire up yharim's severed head to scan it from his brain

[timber glacier]

The only potential sources would be maybe silva, maybe perf/hive mind and like yharim might know but would absolutely never tell you

[sinful adder]

As an accessory to the aquatic Scourge fight you can make it spray so much water into the air that the water and air mix, so you can both swim everywhere but also still breathe.

[leaden bridge]

The tyrian who's missing in the room

[west plume]

you could technically ask yharon but he'd also never tell you

[leaden bridge]

Just find tyrian

[timber glacier]

True wait tyrian relevence

[leaden bridge]

Idk why tyrian would tell u but again

[sinful adder]

I don't think the player should be able to ascend because the result you get from ascending should depend on your specific player's personality and story

[leaden bridge]

I don't care

Gameplay and hype moments

[sinful adder]

And you can't reasonably do that

I think that instead we should be able to do something else interesting with yharon's soul

[west plume]

it would be a perfect ascension thing where you gain an additional gameplay mechanic that a dragon uses

but i agree

[leaden bridge]

The terrarian is you is extremely secondary and already actively challenged by shit like Skeletron Prime is a funny name

I genuinely don't think it matters beyond actual written characterization

[sinful adder]

Maybe for example, we can explode it and shove it back into the world soul to allow the world to regenerate

[west plume]

wut do u think essence biomes are

if u leave an auric soul around it'll kinda just enter essence mode

[timber glacier]

Wait now I think about i guess slime god could maybe tell you since like killing them isn’t basically needed like providence and like they’re not like evil and stuff

[west plume]

y would slime god tell u

[leaden bridge]

Like I don't want there being dialogue choices that make the terrarian a posh British woman in her fourties but theoretical imperfect ascension implying something about their personality i just don't find relevant

[plucky juniper]

the truth is that ascension has these unusual limitations such as "There's also a Ritual that apparently everyone learned but you cant for some reason" and "Yharim can teleport his soul away on death. Somehow" because it would break the story if you... just could take yharim's soul

[sinful adder]

Imagine you suck up the essence and put it in one spot to make a new soul with the individual wills removed

[plucky juniper]

because that would just KILL yharim due to the bond breaking

[timber glacier]

I dunno but like maybe you could like make them trust you or something

[leaden bridge]

There's a reason for this but you won't like what it is

[west plume]

so, theoretically, you just completely clean the shard and place it there so you can perfectly ascend like the dragons did ?

[timber glacier]

Slime god does generally seem to be generally trying to protect balance so like accomplishing that could make them like you

[plucky juniper]

@leaden bridge ?

i know the reason bub

anyhow fuck ya'll im stuffing dragon souls to power my SHPC

HE FUCKING WHAT

[sinful adder]

Well no, it wouldn't be a single coherent shard anymore, and I imagine it would take a long time to regenerate. In my interpretation of it, you would be basically giving the earth what it needs to finally heal. I personally wouldn't intend to ever actually ascend

[west plume]

is that a leak

oops

[plucky juniper]

YHARON CREATED THE AERIE?

[west plume]

he did not create the aerie

[timber glacier]

I can’t believe tyrian made the aerie actually totally

[west plume]

there were several people involved in creating the aerie

[sinful adder]

I hope my idea makes sense

Having a fucked up and mostly dead world sounds bad

[west plume]

i c

essentially just making a neutral domain and letting it fester

[plucky juniper]

i cant believe i accidentally tricked a dev into leaking critical lore

[west plume]

its not super critical

[plucky juniper]

IT'S CRITICAL TO ME

[leaden bridge]

That's not the reason

I mean it is partly

[sinful adder]

Shove it in the core of the earth and carefully keep watch of it. Hopefully it grows into something pure. Might need to throw a bunch of purification powder in there with it

[plucky juniper]

well please do elucidate

[timber glacier]

Wouldn’t like yharim die since like his armour would reject him if his bond with yharon was broken

[plucky juniper]

i would, in fact, like to learn reasoning that might make me displeased

[west plume]

yeah

yharim would no longer be recognized by any dragon and just be turned into soup in that armor

[timber glacier]

Like hed both be electrocuted and also like bounced around in the armour untill hes a puddle of electrified gore

[leaden bridge]

I can't tell you the reason I'm afraid it's really fucked up

[sinful adder]

Purity and nature seem to get along pretty well, and Silva seems to be able to "shed" essence and still regenerate, so I bet Silva could exist in harmony with the new world soul and feed it

[leaden bridge]

Also it would lead to a discussion I don't have the time or brain for right now

[sinful adder]

Maybe it would also tame the other elementals and make them less murderous

[timber glacier]

Well maybe the armour would actually just like electrocute him and go flying off since it would probably be the path of least resistance

[west plume]

eject button

[timber glacier]

Wait would mars still have its world soul, couldn’t we take it

[leaden bridge]

auric springtrap would be such an auraful yharim au

[heavy zenith]

This might be a stupid question, but who are all the lore writers on the dev team? I know there's like three who have it in their bio but I see so many different ones pop in here and drop some lore

[leaden bridge]

No noxus ate ut

[plucky juniper]

buddy. i created omega amidias and made ozzatron horrified

[sinful adder]

It probably got exploded as the reason the martians are fucked

[west plume]

you can't 'take' a world soul, otherwise noxus would have taken it when he placed cv there

[plucky juniper]

i am READY.

[sinful adder]

When he what

[timber glacier]

Just move the remains of mars to earth problem solved

[sinful adder]

Oh on terraria

[west plume]

yeah

[plucky juniper]

i think you need to stop talking now you're leaking way too much stuff

[west plume]

thats not a spoiler

[raven brook]

what did wshe even leak there

[sinful adder]

I thought you meant on mars

[raven brook]

noxus is the creator of ceaseless void wow what a reveal

[timber glacier]

Its less so leaking stuff its just basic how stuff works

[long bloom]

stipulatevenus, archonsystem,ozzatron, piky(?), triangle (debatably)

[plucky juniper]

noxus is the creator of ceaseless void wow what a reveal

[heavy zenith]

thanks!

[west plume]

i feel like this is the most obvious information. where else would cv come from. moon lord did a regular ol invasion not through cv

[leaden bridge]

The reason is [A deep fat log of criticisms about the writing that mostly boil down to fta was too early to drop most of that information because a bunch of shit wasn't properly concreted and no gameplay was changed to make way for it]

[timber glacier]

Whats next devourer of gods being made by him too

[raven brook]

storm weaver

duh.

[plucky juniper]

okay but how does that specifically connect to yhar the on

[tall delta]

yharon should die actually

[timber glacier]

He does!

He just comes back eventually

Like springtrap

[sinful adder]

Hey syrup can I run something by you, an analogy for the distortion I want to verify

[leaden bridge]

i mean the reasons that actually matter about the ascension thing are doylist and the watsonian reasons are pointless to discuss because you can do anything

[heavy zenith]

Syrup listening to the ror2 OST, he knows ball

[tall delta]

where is the soul explosion ritual when you need it

[west plume]

There's nothing saying you won't be able to leave the aerie after killing the 'rim and just get draedon to poke thousands of needles into yharon's egg over and over

[west plume]

ur viewing my profile to find out what i listen to but u conveniently ignored my pronouns 💔💔💔💔💔💔

[long bloom]

> she/they in bio

[timber glacier]

Yikes buddy imagine misgendering someone in lore discussion

[plucky juniper]

quick send the plushie army now

[gritty kraken]

Lowk just realize amidias watched illmeris being boiled and did nothing

[west plume]

what was he meant to do

[heavy zenith]

my bad, focused on the music more

[leaden bridge]

Don't send the plushie army

Amidias was meant to use his amidias beam to put out the fires

[sinful adder]

Imagine normal space is like an expanse of frozen oil. People in terraria and elsewhere are adapted to live in this environment. The distortion is like an empty spot where the oil has been melted and burned. Different creatures live in the empty space, and they can use the heat from burning the oil to melt and burn more oil. In this way, the distortion is literally eating space

[timber glacier]

My face when the average fish person doesn’t try to fight the fires the strength of hell

[leaden bridge]

i still need the sso amidias dialogue. I need to know how you people wrote the sole survivor

[sinful adder]

Is this correct

[west plume]

notice how ur not an auric donor and therefore missed all da old versions with sso included

[plucky juniper]

THE WHAT

[long bloom]

are you talking about the brainstorm betas

those didn't have the dialogue

[leaden bridge]

Did one of those have it?

[long bloom]

also can i say while testing, i mentioned the bestiary rewrite TWICE and nobody else noticed until the update released

[leaden bridge]

I'd just have yuh tell me but he wouldn't want to

[tall delta]

well they should let me consume yharon soul, the terrarian doesnt know the ritual? idk just make your terrarian not consume it then✌️🐱idk

[light linden]

random

is ball lightning a thing in calamity?

[long bloom]

all your questions are random you don't need to specify

[long bloom]

volterion

[light linden]

what

[west plume]

all normal physical phenomena are present in calamity

[long bloom]

volterion makes ball lightning

[timber glacier]

Volterion is a storm weaver weapon

[leaden bridge]

True!

[light linden]

I'm not sure

[long bloom]

whar

[light linden]

damned fat fingers

[timber glacier]

It would be funny if it were edible but like only gave like 5 minutes of tier 2 food buff

[leaden bridge]

I think all the terrarian is you stuff is really vapid anyways because the most important choice about that you could make isn't possible to make anyways it all has to be applied to your character in your brain

[light linden]

I'm not sure if solar flares are a thing

[long bloom]

> solar flare armor

[sinful adder]

Has the cosmology been decided yet?

[light linden]

or gamma ray bursts

[leaden bridge]

the most u get is being able to kill or not some stuff

[light linden]

metals don't seem to be the same either

[west plume]

you can make contributions to calamity mod through https://github.com/CalamityTeam/CalamityModPublic if you wish to fill in spots you feel we have missed

[sinful adder]

The sun cannot both be small and orbit terraria and also be a big normal star because the physics that makes stars possible requires them to be larger and more massive than any non star object

[light linden]

I should stop before I get going

[timber glacier]

I have a lore question does calamity canonically have the animal “olms” in universe

[leaden bridge]

And that's mostly by merit of choices completely and utterly separated from narrative anyways

[west plume]

the sun isn't small i don't think. it's a hydrogen star that has mana in it and is therefore p large

[light linden]

what

[long bloom]

embers outdated

[light linden]

I'm like

[west plume]

we had a big discussion about this in dev

[long bloom]

there's a (probably scrapped) sso enemy called gully olm

[light linden]

99% sure that contradicts with what stip and archon have said

[west plume]

about how all celestial objects being made entirely of mana is silly

[leaden bridge]

Even if i was capable of developing an endgame split path where you either ascend or not after yharons defeat i have a belief the calamity dev team would not exactly be messaging me LGTM

[west plume]

since matter does exist and normal physics exists

[timber glacier]

Oh yeah I guess that kind of suggests they aren’t unlikely to end up existing

[light linden]

mmmm

ok now I've gotta rewrite my notes

I guess

[long bloom]

so does terraria orbit the sun?

[west plume]

nah

[timber glacier]

Uhhh does calamity explain why the stylist has hair dyes that do magic-like stuff to our hair

[long bloom]

sure i guess

[west plume]

she uncuts ur hair i think she might just be a hair mage

[light linden]

I feel like I wanna get another dev here

that's a lot of stuff that's apparently changed

[timber glacier]

Wait does the Terraria world revolve or is it entirely still and day night is just from the sun and moon orbit

[west plume]

hi @cosmic zenith

[cosmic zenith]

?

[west plume]

^

[sinful adder]

Terraria cannot be near the sun without either orbiting it or falling into it

Gravity exists

[long bloom]

we need a second opinion on the sun apparently

[cosmic zenith]

What contradicts what

[west plume]

i think the sun is made of hydrogen and orbits around the planet like it already used to. people here think the sun is tiny and made entirely of mana. what do u think

[light linden]

wait wait

[timber glacier]

Clealry the Terraria moon has as much mass as the sun and perfectly balance out their effect of grabity on terraria

[light linden]

I thought you said that all the devs talked about it?

[west plume]

yes

[leaden bridge]

The orbital mechanics of terraria be fucking crazy yo

[west plume]

we have had discussions about the sun b4

[agile matrix]

is Terraria geocentric or heliocentric

[long bloom]

can we get a slowmode /hj

[west plume]

it's geocentric so it can't really make logical sense at all

although i guess from the perspective of the sun terraria is orbiting it

[sinful adder]

It is impossible for this to be true while also having remotely consistent physics. It just isn't.

[long bloom]

if xeroc doesn't directly control the sun anymore, why not make it heliocentric

[cosmic zenith]

I think you guys are trying to figure out a topic even we are still discussing it in the Dev server and it's obviously not turning out very well

[sinful adder]

It does not need to be geocentric

[long bloom]

oh discussions are ongoing?

that makes more sense

[cosmic zenith]

Yes

[sinful adder]

The sun is like a million times larger than earth

And it has similarly huge mass

[west plume]

the other devs are insistent on Terraria and it's system specifically being geocentric

[sinful adder]

Gravity and thus orbits depend on mass

[timber glacier]

Terraria’s sun is probably a decent bit smaller at least

[light linden]

yeah that makes a lot more sense

[sinful adder]

Then make the sun small. You can have both

Small as in moon sized

[west plume]

the sun should not be small and made of mana

[sinful adder]

Like it was before

[long bloom]

you're the only person talking about the sun being made of mana

[sinful adder]

You can't have both. This is incompatible with the statement that all real life physics works the same

[west plume]

i'm gonna tweak

hold on

[long bloom]

ben

it's a video game

[sinful adder]

A star requires gravity strong enough to overcome nuclear forces

It's a video game with lore intended to be logically consistent

[light linden]

I thought stars flat out didn't work like irl in calamity

[sinful adder]

It used to be that way!

[light linden]

where most were balls of mana and the sun was a ball of special mana

[cosmic zenith]

Calamity cosmology is probably the greatest source of... I'm not sure controversy is the right word
Ideas have come and gone and I cannot confidently say what's "correct" because there is no certainty

[light linden]

so what the hell is gonna happen with the astral infection?

or Xeroc?

[west plume]

there are some stars that work closer to how they do irl but it'd be silly for all stars to be made entirely of mana given that you can grab and hold onto mana stars which apparently don't emit meaningful heat. it's been a topic of discussion about how silly it is

[long bloom]

stars are made of normal star matter as well as mana, some are more regular, some are more mana

[west plume]

the sun does emit heat, zeratros was able to intensify the heat it emitted. it is burning something and emitting regular thermal energy

[sinful adder]

I think it is reasonable for there to be both normal stars and mana stars as long as the terraria sun isn't a normal star

hey here's an idea

terraria orbits really far from a normal star but has its own mana sun that is small and orbits it

[long bloom]

does it also emit primordial light?

[sinful adder]

there are two suns

[west plume]

primordial light is sunlight

[cosmic zenith]

So, including you, syrup, I would recommend to not hurry to conclusions
This is not to say I disagree with you perspective (I have once made questions similar to yours and there were actually crazier ideas that didn't happen partially because I disagreed)

[timber glacier]

Wait I thougt it was just doing the super heat thing initially and xeroc made it stop not that zeratros made it do that

[west plume]

So, including you, syrup, I would recommend to not hurry to conclusions
we already had this discussion indev. i can link you to it

[long bloom]

so from my understanding, the sun still emits sunlight, but is not made of it

[west plume]

no, the sun is not made of sunlight...?

[cosmic zenith]

As that very discussion represents, things aren't set in stone

[long bloom]

before the cosmology changes the sun was a ball of primordial light

[west plume]

why

[long bloom]

idk

[west plume]

do we have a reason? you didn't present any argument to the contrary and we've been operating off of the conclusion that regular stars do exist and that the sun isn't equivalent to a mana star

[light linden]

also again

changing star and sun lore would affect two things in a pretty big way

[cosmic zenith]

The argument I presented is the ephemeral nature of our decisions about cosmology so far
It doesn't exactly make me confident about sharing this type of information publicly

[west plume]

i don't think the sun burning hydrogen stops weaver from diving into it and getting the mana it holds

not weaver

deus

[timber glacier]

Wait what do you mean weaver diving in

[west plume]

got my worms mixed

Got my worms in a tie

[timber glacier]

Oh okay I thought weaver was gonna eat the sun and become a superboss (joke)

[long bloom]

mixed worms sounds like the worst cereal

[west plume]

no lol

[cosmic zenith]

I didn't present any argument against fusion-based stars, as you have noticed

Because I don't fundamentally disagree with it

[west plume]

then what are we in disagreement about, exactly?

what do you desire to change or foresee changing?

we can prob discuss it right now indev since archon is online

[cosmic zenith]

Currently, I have no idea; I just got thrust into this topic rn
I am simply being cautious about revealing information

[leaden bridge]

#proud#1reasonanyonecares

Wrong reply

[leaden bridge]

This one

[visual kiln]

my little pony cosmology

[west plume]

I am simply being cautious about revealing information
is there any reason...? do we have extra plans for this information? was this meant to be secret?

[cosmic zenith]

Because keep in mind, we didn't foresee these things changing before

Can we correctly gauge whether there's anything to foresee this time?

[timber glacier]

Armoured digger how I don’t really miss but kind of do so

[west plume]

yes?

[dusk laurel]

lore isnt final until ingame (sometimes its not even exactly finished ingame either in some cases)

[west plume]

nothing changes with astral or xeroc in this situation

i dont understand

[tropic oak]

the rock

[west plume]

AH

[dusk laurel]

yeah like, mana stars r still a thing

[cosmic zenith]

I suppose that's our disagreement then
But well, I guess people are now aware of how shaky this topic is

[west plume]

i would like to resolve the shakiness since i was unaware there was any

[sinful adder]

everything changes because of how fundamentally incompatible the things that calamity stars are supposed to be and do are with normal physical stars

[cosmic zenith]

Yeah, but what stars are and how they act do, even if characters don't

[dusk laurel]

and xeroc isnt gonna be completely altered just because the sun isnt as different from irl

[cosmic zenith]

Let's discuss in dev then

[west plume]

okay

[eager bluff]

i should go back and remake this actually

[sinful adder]

the statements "gravity is the same as it is in the real world" and "the terraria sun is a real life star" and "the terraria sun orbits terraria" are all mutually incompatible.

in an absolute and irreconcilable sense

its like saying 1=0

I don't like stories that do this

[timber glacier]

Isn’t gravity like objectively not like earths cos like why can some stuff fall faster than others I thought thay wan’t exactly possible or something

[sinful adder]

it is possible when air resistance exists because air resistance is correlated with density

[light linden]

Xeroc is directly tied to the Sun and the Astral Infection is supposed to be a LOT of mana from a star left to rot going crazy

[sinful adder]

or when you have an external force pulling one thing more than another

[timber glacier]

Wait also gravitation potions do kinda make it extra weird

And gravity globe

[west plume]

i don't think it's important. it doesn't matter what the terraria sun orbits because from the perspective of the sun, a far away object, terraria orbits it relatively

[agile matrix]

okay so i have a semisolution

and its called Big Stars and Little Stars

[west plume]

big stars (hydrogen burning) and little stars (mana stars you can get in-game which haven't changed). both have mana inside

[agile matrix]

where Big Stars (like the sun or Astral Infection) have a lot of mana and whatever else, while Small Stars fall down

do other big stars have primordial light?

or is it just our Sol

[west plume]

i don't think there's anything stopping them but i don't believe that primordial light may be the only aspect a star can have

[dusk laurel]

i thought it was pretty clear that mana stars were differentiated from normal stars am i going crazy or

[west plume]

Yes

[agile matrix]

little stars im pretty sure do not contain primordial light and are more mana than other material

[west plume]

I thought the same thing

[west plume]

i agree

[agile matrix]

but big stars im pretty sure are a mix of mana, maybe primordial light, and Normal Star Combustion Stuff

[long bloom]

wait so can xeroc control light from other stars??

[timber glacier]

I do have a slight question about like if primordial light and light are basically the same thing when it comes to being used in photosynthesis and stuff

[agile matrix]

since they got mana in them, theres a few ways a star can go out, at least in my eyes

normal life cycle, into supernova
failed supernova, into black hole
whatever astral infection is, into astral rot

[west plume]

i don't think there's anything stopping him and it's mostly a distance thing since physical travel time still exists

[long bloom]

xeroc upscale

[dusk laurel]

also yeah xeroc is tied to the sun, but we dont really know enough of what he even does with it other than its an unlimited energy source for him basically, i dont see what changes based on our understanding

[agile matrix]

i personally consider Sunlight and Primordial Light two different things

like radiation

[long bloom]

they're literally synonyms

they mean the same thing

primordial light is just a cooler name for sunlight

[agile matrix]

Primordial Light is UV Radiation?

[long bloom]

yeah

[timber glacier]

Essence of sunlight doesn’t seem to for example has connections to the name “peimordial light” iirc

[long bloom]

the essences are weird and fucked up

[timber glacier]

So like is it unrelated or is it

The essences don’t really need to exist

[long bloom]

havoc is really the only one that might be relevant

[timber glacier]

At least sunlight cos its kind of the “sky essence” but like souls of flight are also there

[agile matrix]

essences are game mechanics more than item

like the souls

[timber glacier]

Souls are very important though

[agile matrix]

lore item*

[pulsar ocean]

“Hold on noxus you’ll be totally FRIED in the next 150 years when that beam from the big ass star gets here”

[agile matrix]

they're important but not properly represented i think

[timber glacier]

Essence is just something that exists and never gets really explained

[long bloom]

my headcanon is that the essences are the internals of souls, while ectoplasm is the external and souls of x are the entire thing

[agile matrix]

just pull a ND

make a star on the spot

[timber glacier]

Honestly I would love if they were like reworked to not be a randomkind of abstract set of items but like actually be an explainable object

[west plume]

out of wut

primordial light?

[agile matrix]

idk the air

how does nameless deity do that attack

[long bloom]

it's literally God

[eager bluff]

i have returned with it updated

[agile matrix]

someone fire emoji this

[timber glacier]

The fact that image doesn’t even show half of calamity’s “worm bosses” says a lot

[agile matrix]

i think worms could be cool if they werent so chuds

[agile matrix]

i think thanatos should be a walling tool more often

[timber glacier]

I thinks the worms could be cool if there wasn’t 10 of them

[agile matrix]

no you can have a lot of worms

you just gotta make them different enoguh

[long bloom]

wormstorm tomorrow

[eager bluff]

whats funnier is that i didnt even change the comically low res aquatic scourge

[agile matrix]

if the EoW rework update is called Wormstorm i will be quite happy

[dusk laurel]

thanatos being allegedly a tank and then its liek a thin metal noodle with spikes

god i love boss design

[agile matrix]

the exos make me sad

they should be so cool and yet they're so dogshit

[timber glacier]

I will say thanatos is like cool conceptually and like the idea of its mechanic is cool but its an exo mech so yeah

[agile matrix]

ares should be aurafarming more, hunters should be uber-nimble, and thanatos should be defending his teammates

[timber glacier]

I’m gonna be honest I really dislike ares he feels like he has no “Identity” unlike the other exos

[eager bluff]

ares is a png,

[timber glacier]

Random bullshit go is like his whole shtick

He mostly feels like a stage hazard not a boss

[agile matrix]

i like what wrath of the machines does with ares. they give him loadouts that he swaps between

they're not adaptive or whatever but they are unique

[timber glacier]

The fact that he only has projectile firing arms bothers me like why no like chainsaw arm

Also how the fuck can he fly

[agile matrix]

why does he not have all 5 arsenal force

[dusk laurel]

i would hate them all equally if it were not for the actual designs, in which case ares is acceptable despite everything else about it, and then thanatos is like the worse thing ever genuinely what is there to say about the design other than it looks cool to people

[timber glacier]

Thanatos is kindof just destroyer with aura but like isn’t a standout

[agile matrix]

why is the gauss weapon (the magnet one) a nuke

[timber glacier]

But like to me ares just looks bad in game because he is literally like taped stuck to your screen 90% of the time whereas thanatos at least slightly feels like they’re in the world

Also ares’ head is so small like bro why so little head

Like why did draedon go from flying head/skull to tiny head on a big body

[eager bluff]

it doesnt even have aura

[timber glacier]

The giant deathray is kinda aura i guess

[eager bluff]

its the exact same school of design every other worm boss has

[cosmic zenith]

Update: the discussion has been very productive

[eager bluff]

this one is just Spikier™ (vaguely) and darker

[long bloom]

yippee

[timber glacier]

Also I will say ares also lacks the whole spining death head which is like half of the skeletron prime fight I feel

[raven brook]

What discussion? What'd i miss?

[eager bluff]

it doesnt do anything unique with it which makes the design entirely fall flat

[raven brook]

Im ngl im kinda glad it does

[light linden]

[long bloom]

they're discussing cosmology in dev more

[timber glacier]

Also the weapons and body of ares sharing health is also weird and nothing like how prime or skeletron work

[raven brook]

Ares is the best design of the exos imo because

[dusk laurel]

ares actually isnt just skeletron but exo so it gets points from me

[raven brook]

Its the least like its counterpart

[timber glacier]

??? In gameplay ut really isn’t

[raven brook]

best design

[dusk laurel]

we're talking about yhe design not the programming

[cosmic zenith]

Cosmology in the early days was a chore man

[timber glacier]

Like you mean what it looks like

[raven brook]

Yes

[eager bluff]

it feels a lot more like its sprime but shaken up in a box so its Different now

[cosmic zenith]

Right now it's going very smoothly because we actually have an idea of what things are like

[raven brook]

All of the mechs r ass in terms of gameplay

[timber glacier]

Because like skeletron prime is robot skull with weapon arms while ares is a giant robot upper body with small skull head

Wait I’m stupid I misread you

[raven brook]

I to this day still don't get why the whole non-heliocentric thjng happened

[eager bluff]

when looking at ares its the least likely to be immediately singled out as "hey you're this mech but again"

[raven brook]

I don't think i ever got a explanation beyonf someyhing xeroc something overpowered

[timber glacier]

I guess but like isn’t part of the point to be like perfected versions of the mechs

[eager bluff]

if you show someone the vanilla mechs and the exo mechs and asked them to match them up ares would have the least in common with sprime

[raven brook]

which was very easily refuted

[agile matrix]

yea thats because s.prime actually does things other than shoot projectiles

[timber glacier]

Yeah cos the others are robot worm and robot eyes its not really like ares is like super unique its just the least similar

[long bloom]

we have proof of ares being the most different

[agile matrix]

ares Just shoots projectiles

[long bloom]

observe

[raven brook]

thats a gameplay thing

not a design thing

we are talking about design

[timber glacier]

I personally feel the twins are the best imo but like they’re like the best of 3 awful-below aversge stuff

[raven brook]

i think just making them the mechs again is creatively restraining and kind of boring

[timber glacier]

I know but calling back to the mechs in their fights is good as it connects them

[raven brook]

ares still has enough similarity with it hvaing 4 arms like skeleprime and having skeletal elements while letting itself be its own design and also it just looks cool as fuck

[agile matrix]

okay actually mecha prov and dog i can see

like it makes no sense but visually i get

whered they get yharon lmfao

[raven brook]

thanatos is the one i like the least because its just nothinfburger

[eager bluff]

ares is distinct enough from sprime that it was chosen as the poster child because it would be the hardest to immediately say "oh yeah they're doing mechs but again"

[raven brook]

its not a aggressively bad or flawed design

its just kinda nothing

[raw nest]

Is Thanatos by itself stronger than dog?

[timber glacier]

Also like I feel like is ares could detatch its head or something and call back ro skeletron prime head spin

[raven brook]

idk

probably not

[agile matrix]

depends on who gets the first hit

if DoG can blitz through them probably DoG. if Thanatos can get a grip on them with their pincers, DoG may be electrocuted

[raw nest]

Draedon says one thing he regrets is how slow Thanatos’s armor makes it, so I’d assume dog is faster but Thanatos is tankier

[long bloom]

thanatos is literally fucking invincible except for the air vents

[timber glacier]

Ares to me abandons any melee attacks which were literally what 3/5 of skeletron prime’s parts do so like it feels like it just doesn’t feel like it really tries at all to properly call back to prime

[eager bluff]

show off exo twins and itll be figured out in an instant that its mechs but again, thanatos doesnt do anything unique with its silhouette so honestly that one could just go to a mecha any worm boss

[raw nest]

This is why wrath of the machines is awesome

[timber glacier]

Also come he drops a chainsaw let him use that at least

[eager bluff]

that was planned actually

ares was supposed to have 2 more arms

[agile matrix]

this is true. infernum does really really well with using the weapons in Some Cases .

[eager bluff]

but those got scrapped at some point near release iirc

[agile matrix]

see Some Cases because Phaseslayer is used???

[eager bluff]

phaseslayer was one of the initial planned arms iirc

[agile matrix]

why not photon ripper

[eager bluff]

pretty sure the planned stuff was the 4 that we have plus a phaseslayer arm and a phripper arm

[agile matrix]

oh

[timber glacier]

Like as is I feel like a chainsaw arm would totally be cooler than like one of the 4 projectile spam arms

[gritty kraken]

Thanatos full redesign when

[long bloom]

here's the ares concepts for posterity

[raven brook]

never

spriter hell. maybe one day a miracle will happne but extremely highly doubt

atleast thanatosi s a worm so its not as animated as the others

[eager bluff]

miracle.. mech

[timber glacier]

Hold on is that a chain blade arm in one of those

[agile matrix]

he looks fucking yoked

on All the steroid

[long bloom]

there's a circular saw

[raven brook]

bro has the superradiant slaughterer

[timber glacier]

Well exo prisms would kinda be like steroids for robots

I meant the 4th one on the miracle matter design

Like it looks kinda like a whip or a blade on a chain

[long bloom]

ohh yeah

[dusk laurel]

exo mech identity of being the third versions of phm bosses visually and having a terrible fight

[agile matrix]

no i know if he was a dude he would look like the garg from pvz

[timber glacier]

Two of ares arms firing the same stuff as the twins if i remember correctly is incredibly lame also

Like why not try to be varied and not just laser guns on all of them

[agile matrix]

ive said this b4 and ill say it again
hunters: dps
ares: middle ground
thanatos: tank

[timber glacier]

The nuke gun is cool though it is a great way to take the cannon arm

[agile matrix]

they SHOULD be this. thats how theyre designed.
HOWEVER, current implementation is
hunters: dps
ares: dps
thanatos: hybrid tank dps

which is LAME

[timber glacier]

Isn’t the twins point that the green one weakens you with like fire and then artemis can like snipe and deal that last bit of health

[agile matrix]

they dont do cool tricks in the air they just shoot at you !!!!!

[long bloom]

imo it should be
hunters: mobility
ares: dps
thanatos: tank

[pulsar ocean]

No one could’ve expected skeletron primer

[agile matrix]

this is also valid i think

[raven brook]

exos r bad discussion numero fifty

someone save these damn robots

[agile matrix]

yea except im saying how they could be Cool instead of just saying "they suck" because "they suck" does not let me autism

[pulsar ocean]

any boss that’s not named ravager or old duke is fun and cool and awesome

[raven brook]

yeah they could be awesome they have some of the best buildup of any bosses in the game already

one day

[timber glacier]

Wait hear me out what if instead of fixing them we add an exo queen bee since draedon did make plaguebringer

[raven brook]

add a exo deerclops and the fight is fixed

i feel like the exo rework itself will warrant a update tbh

like by itself

[timber glacier]

True cos then it wouldn’t be canon

[eager bluff]

exos suck from a conceptual standpoint and they were doomed to suck in a gameplay standpoint from the moment they were concepted with fabsol at the helm

[raven brook]

with maybe some related content like miracle matter reworks or something but eh

[timber glacier]

No need to worry about it

[long bloom]

tis the plan

[pulsar ocean]

exostorm

[timber glacier]

Like actually fighting draedon wouldn’t really make sense so the exos are kinda the next best thing

[agile matrix]

like For Example:

do you know the concept of the firing range? thanatos is the wall and the hunters have all sorts of cool tricks
beyblade ares
ares gets some awesome superchargers and ubers the fuck outta their companion but this fries them for a short moment while they set their shit back up
thanatos flavored hyperrift death scepter

[timber glacier]

Also they should actually work together

[agile matrix]

just more Synergy man. more Cool Shit.

[agile matrix]

Yes

[gritty kraken]

Thanatos coiling soon

[agile matrix]

imagine i sent the word Yes four billion times

[pulsar ocean]

why doesn’t draedon build a big mech for himself if everything is better to do yourself

[timber glacier]

Also maybe don’t make the two twins share hp because that makes like 0 sense

[agile matrix]

i mean the issue with that is you need to control two systems

[gritty kraken]

Tru

[agile matrix]

having them on the same frame is Good because you can have them synchronize

[eager bluff]

iban had to FIGHT fabsol to make exos not mayhem the entire fight because that was initially what it was gonna be

[timber glacier]

Like you could justify ares and its arms sharing hp but the twins sharing makes no logical sense

[raven brook]

they do?

lol

[eager bluff]

yeah

[timber glacier]

They do because like its meant to i guess make them more of a pair

[raven brook]

cmon having the surviving one go berserk the moment you kill the other one si right there

[eager bluff]

would be unsurprised as well if initially every mech was supposed to share hp

[timber glacier]

That would be so unfun

[raven brook]

cant wait for exo reworks. hopefully they will actually match the final boss status with the gameplay

[timber glacier]

At least exos do let you fight it in multiple ways which is kinda cool

[gritty kraken]

They should make apollo dash more because that’s the spazmatism guy

[agile matrix]

they would be so awesome actually

[dusk laurel]

they should give thanatos probes because its supposed to be destroyer prime

[agile matrix]

because they could share a power source, dropping one means that the other gets way more power than expected and gets to be Way scarier

[agile matrix]

if the probes are vaguely like deus's mines where they break and return to thanatos after a bit, i wouldnt be too mad abt htis

[timber glacier]

Also with exo twins sharing hp it makes less sense then if the twins shared hp cos at least they’re connected

[agile matrix]

having Thanatos kinda like uuuh. aircraft carrier

but for probes

[timber glacier]

The actual solution is to replace them all with hypnos an exo boc

[agile matrix]

the solution is X(inf)-Hypnos

also something thats pretty funny: i dont think destroyer telegraphs its lasers, but its older brother does

[timber glacier]

Wait here me out what if each of the exos also kind of took some of the elements from the other stuff draedon has kind of made to show them as the culmination of his creations

[agile matrix]

i mean thats why ares could have the arsenal

[timber glacier]

Like have stuff like aureus, pbg, maybe even like burrower on the exos

[long bloom]

ares also has a shared healthpool between its body and all 4 arms

[raven brook]

I mean burrower

Was used in the creation of destroyer iirf

So

[timber glacier]

I guess but like incorporating like plague-stuff into like the green twin could be cool

[raven brook]

Idk what you'd incorporate from aureus but one of the mechs throwing plague bombs at you would be kinda aura

[timber glacier]

Make it like extra debuffy so like it is meant to be widdling you down over time

[eager bluff]

ares goombastomp

[timber glacier]

Give thanatos aureus legs duh

[dusk laurel]

yeah just turn ares into a mecha atp

[timber glacier]

Hekate wishes she looked this cool

[raven brook]

I should boar myselr

[dusk laurel]

i think thats my que to finally go to sleep 😊
horrifying image of doom

[timber glacier]

Oh also dog’s armour was also draedon right so light showing aspects of that on their designs would also be cool

[raven brook]

Isnt thanatos's plating said to be based of that

[dusk laurel]

draedon says the exos are made of a cosmilite alloy so ig that counts
as for the second true but spriter hell

[timber glacier]

Yeah but like it isn’t on their designs suggested other than worm boss with armour

[raven brook]

Tbh i feel like making it too clearly similar to DoG could be a issue because identity

[timber glacier]

I know but like it doesn’t have to be thana that has like direct visual dog ties

[raven brook]

Make it look too much likd DoG and you just made purple flying mech looking worm Four

[timber glacier]

Give like artemis cosmolite visuals idk

[raven brook]

I think trying to fit in all of the mechs draedon made in their design is a bit much

[timber glacier]

And like turn ares into like a lab seeking mechanism or something

[raven brook]

feels like itd end up kinda convoluted

[timber glacier]

Aren’t they like meant to be kind of his magnum opus so being the culmination of all his work would make that be expressed

Also could help to make it so each of them has a unique visual appearance to eachother outside of shape

[raven brook]

Yeah but i think trying to fit literally everything he has ever made into the designs is asking for too much

I think some more if towuld be cool but you dont have to include literally everything

[dusk laurel]

culmination of work does not always imply everything combined into something but the actual skills and technical work learned from previous projects being used and applied

[raven brook]

Plus if the mechs look too vastly different from eachother without a clear aesthethic connection i think thatd also be too extreme

that too yeah

culmination of his work dosent mean he'll insert everything hes ever made into it

still think one of the mechs using the plague for an attack would be pretty cool though

and feels like soemthing he'd employ given how effective the plague is

[timber glacier]

So after everything hes made when improving retinazer he did like nothing major to like its idea for example

[raven brook]

if only amore controlled version of it anyways

maeybe a improved one

[gritty kraken]

Apollo flamethrower when

[dusk laurel]

theres only so much you can do with eyeballs ig

[timber glacier]

I did just have an idea where like are’s lightning attack that is boring and lame and I hate could actually like cause thanatos’ shielding to go down cos isn’t that how you can harm burrowers

[dusk laurel]

its hard to rationalize how the exos were designed with the lore because theres no way to really explain it without it not making sense

[timber glacier]

But like After all of draedons time inventing since the original mechs, he couldn’t think of ways to make retinazer basic idea any better and kept it just laser eye

No like homing lasers or like something just lasers again

[raven brook]

tbh i think given draedon's distaste for the mechs themselves him making them similar could be justified as genuinely just spite lol

hes not above feeling emotions

plus he had to decide on some sort of shape/appearance for them

[timber glacier]

What do you mean he dislikes em

[raven brook]

draedon never liked the mech trio

[eager bluff]

they have free will

[raven brook]

they have souls and consciousness and dont follow orders

he only really worked on them per yharims request

[eager bluff]

they're essentially just a big group of people in a box that you ask to do things

[raven brook]

it wasnt something he did out of passion or interest

heck, the plague started BECAUSE he found working with the mech trio a pain in the ass

and wanted to find a way to weaponize life without having to deal with the hassle of "free will" or "i dont want to do what youre teling me to"

[eager bluff]

theres no guarantee theyll actually do it or that they wont misinterpret the ask or that theyll go off and do their own thing when unsupervised

[timber glacier]

Heartwarming notorious ai user decides to rely on humans for his next creation

[agile matrix]

theyre chatgpt

[eager bluff]

no

[timber glacier]

The non-exo mechs arent

[eager bluff]

they are an r/askreddit thread

[agile matrix]

oh you're true actually

[timber glacier]

But I will say Like with like all of calamities bosses the exos have so much potential and fall far from it

Albeit the fact that a chainsaw arm for ares was scrapped is criminal

[raven brook]

ead that as chainsaw man

[timber glacier]

Random thought did anahita, the dragon of tides or tyrian god of seas generally have more power over water

[eager bluff]

most likely anahita

[timber glacier]

Also like why doesn’t she inflict like the strongest water debuff if like shes like the water guy

I know its balance but like is there lore reasoning

[eager bluff]

gameplay reasons

[timber glacier]

The idea of water-element dot effects is also really kind of dumb

Like how can I use those as debuffs

[eager bluff]

actually not even gameplay she just doesnt use any

[timber glacier]

Doesn’t she even like inflict any not even like wet

[eager bluff]

she has wet but it doesnt do anything and is only on one attack

[timber glacier]

The elementals are actually all kinda frauds when you think about it
Anahita -no water debuffs
Sand - Not even a miniboss just like rare enemies
Cloud - same as sand
Brimstone - Fire elemental yet like a 10 yr old like completely outdid her
Silva - the socalled god of life yet shes dead rn kinda

[eager bluff]

brimmy got her shit stolen she isnt a fraud

[timber glacier]

If your powers were stolen by a twelve year old i could still beat the shit out of her

[eager bluff]

anahita is still post plantera silva is still not dead cloud and sand arent even the full elemental

[timber glacier]

Silva is kinda dead rn though

[eager bluff]

no

she is not

[timber glacier]

Isn’t the state shes in kind of dead but like mid revival

[eager bluff]

she is, much like the other elementals, immortal until the concept she embodies is erased

[timber glacier]

Then why is she like stuck unable to do anything

[eager bluff]

if i put you in a box you cannot leave are you dead

[timber glacier]

Yeah but like I thought she like was non-consious right now

[eager bluff]

she doesnt have a Brain currently afaik but this is more like a comatose state than she is dead

[timber glacier]

No… brain you say… and like what if there was like a storm… heh

But actually having no brain is kinda like being dead unless your a jellyfish

And thats a different god whos a jellyfish

I will say though I do really wish like after finishing the rest of the mod a post-game fight against silva would be kinda cool

Either silva alone, her +braelor (and statis maybe) or just braelor and statis empowered by her

Wait what is the origin of silva’s name

Is it like derived from anything

[rancid orchid]

silva is just a name it means forest in latin i think

[timber glacier]

Okay thats kind of a bit dissapointing but it is old now that I think about it

[sinful adder]

She never fully died

But yeah she's basically in a coma and regenerating

She still has a subconscious will

[timber glacier]

Okay but like functionally shes like temporarily kind of in a dead-like state

[sinful adder]

Because her vines open the abyss chests for you

True

[timber glacier]

The goddess of life being in a dead-like state is ironic to her powers and stuff

[sinful adder]

Her powers are the reason she's only mostly dead instead of entirely dead

"mostly dead is slightly alive"

[timber glacier]

I know but like the the irony is really funny

Also the fact that ravager who’s soul is made from the soul of the dragon of dead being kind of alive is also kind of ironic when compared to silva

[cosmic zenith]

Ok, everyone

We're done discussing most of the cosmology

[timber glacier]

What was the verdict

[cosmic zenith]

The moon will be left for another day

I won't reveal much, but to clear the biggest source of confusion, Calamity is currently a heliocentric system

It used to be geocentric because of what the old sun was and how Calamity was a much more Terraria-centered universe
Now, we have an understanding of cosmology that's closer to intuition/reality, and Terraria is no longer (figuratively speaking) the center of the universe

To clarify further

Please consider all other information about cosmology from dev comments as false.

We will reveal further details when we are ready and until then, you will not circulate information that's at best unconfirmed.

[raven brook]

Moon's evil

[raven brook]

Also:

[cosmic zenith]

I'm evil
Fucked up creature 😈

[west plume]

i argued hard for this

[timber glacier]

People keep saying the moons evil but the sun was previously making terraria only survive able for like only the dragons but nooo the moons the evil thing

[west plume]

u guys better be welcome

[west plume]

the sun didn't do that

zeratros did

[raven brook]

Finally no more random geocentrism

[timber glacier]

Okay why did he do that what is wrong with him

[west plume]

i had to invent like 8 reasons for terraria to be heliocentric

[agile matrix]

cool terraria exists nominally

[cosmic zenith]

You really didn't have to go through all that trouble

[agile matrix]

moons haunted Sure

[cosmic zenith]

Geocentrism was supported by one, very wacky idea

[agile matrix]

is it solar eclipses

[cosmic zenith]

No

[timber glacier]

Was it like world souls being very dense or something

[cosmic zenith]

It's not something you'd be able to guess and I won't reveal because I didn't come up with it

[raven brook]

As long as the moon remains being evil and the reason its evil is generally unconfirmed we good

[west plume]

tl;dr he thought that if he kept the sun on preheat and kept all of his friends in a secret land no one could access then he would be protecting the world and the world soul from any possible evildoers and villains. then a real demon came and proved him wrong

[timber glacier]

Bro though puttibg everyone in a microwave would protect them

[agile matrix]

as far as i know the only reasons i can rememeber for geocentrism is

the moon and the sun are either over top each other or on exact opposite axises
you can fast forward time

[west plume]

keeping the sun on high will make me more Powerful so i can defend from external threats!
Fovos:

[raven brook]

I wouldn't mind some vague hints at what the moons nature might be tho

[west plume]

moon's evil

[agile matrix]

i always thought the moon was where fovos's corpse was kept

[raven brook]

Well yeah it is

[timber glacier]

Wasn’t fovos like just weakened not like a corpse

[raven brook]

Why you think hes called moon lord

Yeah

[agile matrix]

same reason astrum deus is called star god

[raven brook]

I mean

Astrum deus

Eats stars

[split mortar]

That’s cause that is where he was sealed

[raven brook]

Is from space

[agile matrix]

exact anticoncept to zeratros and the only thing to Murder Him

[raven brook]

And is seen as a god

[agile matrix]

so they were probably a being of the moon

hence: Moon Lord

[cosmic zenith]

""World soul""

[timber glacier]

I will say it would be kinda funny if like the moon is just evil but like being evil has nothing to do with fovos its just evil

[agile matrix]

aka "The dragons said Moon's Evil since its anti-sun"

[raven brook]

But thate what it is

[raven brook]

This i mean

[agile matrix]

i mean that DOES go with my "bc its the opposite to zeratros, its evil" theory

[raven brook]

Blood Moons and Solar Eclipses are a phenomenom that has happened since before ml or dragons or Any of that

The moon just is evil

[raven brook]

the dragons didnt say its evil it literally is evil

moons evil

it just does shit

werewolves too. theres that. becasue fuck it why not

[timber glacier]

Did the moon ever give someone skin cancer though? Didn’t think so so clearly the suns the evil one

[agile matrix]

no i know. they were right about it being evil just not right about why it is

[west plume]

zeratros has given many people skin cancer and the moon has never given anyone skin cancer

[split mortar]

Have you SEEN what rises in blood moons

[agile matrix]

yeah

batman

[raven brook]

the moon can moonscorch you as seen in fear and hunger 2

so basically yeah

[west plume]

thats rher

the moon is different

[raven brook]

shoutout to the moon just being a evil force of beyond for some reason

big fan of that trope

[timber glacier]

Also the moon makes tides and like is important for the oceans irl so clearly its the reason why calamities fish are so advanced

[west plume]

the moon would never help a measly fish

[timber glacier]

Isn’t noxus kind of this too as far as were aware

[cosmic zenith]

We should add weresquirrels that transform under the noon sun

[west plume]

please do not equate the moon to a beast like noxus

[cosmic zenith]

Sun is evil

[long bloom]

i don't think noxus is like
ontologically evil?

[timber glacier]

The moon is just such a sweetheart and would do this for anyone who asks

[cosmic zenith]

(We'll keep Noxus vague for the moment)

[west plume]

The Moon was a good celestial body who helped everyone by transforming them into more powerful forms

[long bloom]

goog idea

[west plume]

Occasionally it becomes a blood moon that gives everyone more blood because it wants them to live

[timber glacier]

Who else helps you see at night when the suns on the other side of the planet

[west plume]

that's true. the sun would never

[split mortar]

Every celestial object in calamity is evil bru /j

[timber glacier]

The moon loves helping with blood donations

[west plume]

the moon sends blood donation agents to your home to assist with the blood drive

[cosmic zenith]

Now it's your turn to reveal stuff, loreheads

Show us your [credit card] and the [numbers on the back]

[timber glacier]

Also the moon helps with celebrations because it even gets into the festive spirit with the frost and pumpkin moon

[west plume]

My name is Noxus. I made the DoG. It was difficult to put the worms together

[split mortar]

Stip became infected with the spamton rip

[timber glacier]

Spamton infection oh no

[cosmic zenith]

I wish I was infected with the homework grind

[west plume]

i already finished my home works :)

[cosmic zenith]

Or the rejuvenating sleep virus

[pulsar ocean]

the beast is on the dark side of the sun

[cosmic zenith]

Me when the dark side of the moon isn't actually dark

[timber glacier]

Honestly if the moon wasn’t evil but instead trying to help but like completely failing would actually be kind of funny

[pulsar ocean]

foxy is actually a good guy

[west plume]

i dont know if the moon knows what the concept of helping is

[cosmic zenith]

The real moon was the friends we made along the way

[west plume]

i dont know if the moon knows anything really

maybe i should ask it

[cosmic zenith]

You should eat it

[west plume]

Looks to the Moon

[cosmic zenith]

Absorb its knowledge

[timber glacier]

I feel like it knows at least how to count to 12 but any thing beyond that is debatable

[cosmic zenith]

Looks to the Moon my beloved....

[west plume]

https://tenor.com/view/rain-world-no-significant-harassment-nsh-meme-rainworld-gif-2164992452457686582

[cosmic zenith]

Nooooo

Toxic lilypad real

[west plume]

do u have any proof that the moon knows how to count to 12

[split mortar]

Has 12 fingers

[west plume]

What

[timber glacier]

Because it knows like how long to stay in the sky for each night approximately

[west plume]

thats p fair

[split mortar]

What

[west plume]

where have u seen moon fingers

is it like a 6 fingers on each hand situation or one hand with 12 fingers

[cosmic zenith]

You know it's kinda funny how I went through one spoilery username and no one batted an eye
And now it's on its course to happen again

Anyways
Toodles

[agile matrix]

4 hands with 3

[split mortar]

I have not been on the moon so i haven’t

[west plume]

how do u know the moon has fingers then

did it tell you

[split mortar]

Yeah

[timber glacier]

It actually has one hand with 7 fingers, another hand with 3 and a foot with 2 fingers

[long bloom]

[west plume]

That's scary

[timber glacier]

Also the moon can’t be evil its clearly very happy, given the frequent smile shapes it takes during a crescent moon phase

👁️ 👁️
🌙
See look how happy they are

Also wait is mars revolving around the sun like terraria too or does it orbit a different sun

[west plume]

revolves around the sun

[timber glacier]

I do wonder how zetratos turning up the sun affected mars like did they get like toasted alive

[west plume]

likely, but they probably worked together to make a method to protect from the excessive heat

humans were reduced to troglodytes and didn't want to collaborate with each other so they just waited until they had the opportunity to kill their oppressors and take their power for their own

[timber glacier]

Bro but like zeratros doing that is like did he not wonder if it would have any unforeseen consequences or like did he not care

[west plume]

dont think he gave a shit

he thought 'i'm the most powerful guy on the planet. what could possibly happen'

'it's for the greater good'

[timber glacier]

Also like there was a dragon of tides wouldn’t they maybe be like boiled alive cos of it

[west plume]

use water to cool urself down silly

[timber glacier]

The dragon of frost looking in horror as zeratros decides to turn up the sun

[west plume]

dragons with domains relating to ice when zeratros decides to crank the sun up 10 degrees for the 10th time

[timber glacier]

The dragon of fire probably liked it though

[pulsar ocean]

was every ocean a hot tub back in the dragon era

[eternal veldt]

Tbh the ocean is still spicy in the abyss

Has a weird flavour

[eternal veldt]

If the water elemental wanted to flood terraria why didn't she just fish for the angler to get the bottomless water bucket 🙏

[timber glacier]

Just make a u out of blocks and put the water on it that even works

[eternal veldt]

Too slow. Might look for the cyborg and buy some water rockets

[eternal veldt]

Oh btw where can i buy dry grenades?

[timber glacier]

You mean the dry bombs? Those are sold by the demolitionist if you have one in your inventory and also are crafted with wet bombs from obsidian crates

[eternal veldt]

My demolitionist doesn't sell one

Happiness problems?

[timber glacier]

There just needs to be one in your inventory

You can get them from crafting them out of wet bombs

And for some reason you need to fish in lava to get wet bombs

[eternal veldt]

😭

Damn it

[eternal veldt]

Hmm ohhh one more thing is there currently an easier way to replace like sand block and hardened sand with their sunken sea versions?

[timber glacier]

Not currently except block swap

Like if you have ore excavator you can turn on chain blockswap but nothing in the base mod

[eternal veldt]

Damn it. Wish the devs gave me a solution on the next update to spread sunken sea

[west plume]

sunken sealution

[timber glacier]

That would probably end up needing like 5 for the eventual sunken sea sub biomes

[sinful adder]

Not if you make each sub biome correspond to a different set of blocks that get transformed

[timber glacier]

I feel like having 5 recolours of an item like would probably be like a lot better

[sinful adder]

I wish we could send reacts in this channel

[timber glacier]

I wonder Which Max Hp increase items tastes the best canonically

[sinful adder]

We haven't been able to for ages

Sanguine Tangerine:
It has a distinctly sweet flavor and a strong aroma
Miracle Fruit:
Refreshing and cool, perhaps even a bit minty
Tainted Cloudberry:
A tangy, tart flavor with a somewhat earthen touch
Sacred Strawberry:
Though somewhat bland, what taste can be described is unlike any other experienced

Sanguine Tangerine and Sacred Strawberry sound best

[timber glacier]

What about life fruit and life crystal

[sinful adder]

Unknown

[timber glacier]

Yummy rock 🤤 🩸

[sinful adder]

But in the latest vanilla update you can make "Jungle Juice" out of life fruit

[timber glacier]

Wait do we canonically eat life crystals in cal since disgusting meat like makes us regurgitate it

[sinful adder]

Jungle Juice:
'A tropical concoction with hints of Life Fruit and nutmeg'
"Jungle juice in real life is a mix of alcohol, juice, soda, candy, and fruit, typically served at large gatherings"

From this it sounds like life fruit is some kind of tropical fruit

Perhaps like pineapple or guava

[long bloom]

i headcanon they're like rock candy

i also have an extremely specific headcanon for life fruit

the skin is smooth, glossy and elastic, and the inside green part is soft and juicy like canned peach

and the orange part is some kind of gel liquid

[sinful adder]

Interesting

I imagine it like pineapple

But with the green part is more firm, somewhere between apple skin and corn husk

Like uh

Wait I think there's a fruit that's already like this but I can't remember

Eggplant stem?

[long bloom]

i have never touched an eggplant sorry

[sinful adder]

Yeah the green can be like an eggplant's stem thing and the yellow is pineapple with thinner skin

Or pear

[long bloom]

i see

[sinful adder]

Imagine if a corn husk was smoother and more solid but still basically the same stuff

Like a leaf almost

[long bloom]

would make sense

i also imagine a specific size for life fruit but i'm struggling to find a comparison object

very slightly bigger than a grapefruit

[timber glacier]

Arent they like 2x2 blocks in game

[long bloom]

that's the entire plant, not just the fruit

[timber glacier]

Yeah but like we can see how big the fruit is 0n the sprite

[long bloom]

also sizes for anything that's not a block isn't real

tables go up to shoulder height

[timber glacier]

Tall tables

But yeah some stuff like plated foods do end up sacrificing scale for recognisability

[long bloom]

wdym burgers the size of your head are just the standard american cuisine

[sinful adder]

I mean, pretty close

[winged flame]

im so excited for the SSO update so that I can start writing a proper essay about the calamity mod and its themes, i love the lore this mod has so much

[timber glacier]

Sso is going to be a while away due to development stuff so don’t coumt on it coming soon

[winged flame]

oh i know yeah, ive just been thinking about the calamity lore a lot again recently

[wanton pendant]

Finally someone who understands the importance of the fake Earth Elemental!

[magic epoch]

Men

[pulsar ocean]

Themes n such

[winged flame]

yes

[waxen summit]

is yharon edible?

[trim edge]

obviously

[magic epoch]

yharon is theoretically infinite food

maybe if you're a human snake who only has to eat once a decade