lore-discussion

[agile matrix]

big thing on right is yharon soul

[visual kiln]

is that the thinker from

[split mortar]

Calamitas and clone are the same biologically due to one being a clone
Idk if they have vastly dif souls

[timber glacier]

Isn’t ascension kind of combine two different souls, which wouldn’t mean auric soul remains the same but like rather becoming chnaged

[split mortar]

When you god ascend the dragons soul is like
Gone

[agile matrix]

yea but does draedon have a soul to Gone the other

[eager bluff]

with draedon its complicated because we dont know if draedon has a soul

[split mortar]

Yeah changed into the godly soul

[agile matrix]

yeuh

[split mortar]

Idk but then that means draedon cant ascend if not

[agile matrix]

see previous concept i have for it

[split mortar]

So like using it as a battery?
Idt that blocks the attunement

[agile matrix]

more or less using the soul for the power it produces and to fake-ascend since lack of soul since machine (PROBABLY.)

[eager bluff]

we dont know what the requirements for ascension are so not necessarily

[agile matrix]

can this ROCK ascend!!!!

can the Terminus ascend!!!!!!!

[split mortar]

I mean
Soul fusion
Feels pretty fucking clear to me owning a soul is needed

Otherwise you cannot fuse them

It would just be grabbing a dragons soul and forcing it into a different object without actually changing it

[plucky juniper]

"Sorry Xeroc, but I have had enough of being used to ascend others. Now, I shall ascend myself."

[agile matrix]

would it have leftover soul juice on it

Terminus, God of Ascension

[timber glacier]

Also what even are yharon soul fragments in universe like that suggests his soul is split into pieces after you beat him

[split mortar]

Pencil shavings of the whole soul
Its mostly intact

Yharon fought hard enough he damaged his soul a bit iirc
Probably healable?

[eager bluff]

its like that one saying about the bird and the mountain of diamond

[timber glacier]

Where would the healed part come from cos like it cant just come out of nowhere

[long bloom]

how does your body heal

[timber glacier]

Using food, but that suggests souls are able to be made

[agile matrix]

at what point do the yharon soul pencil shaving become a soul

[split mortar]

God essence already shows domains can just make more of itself
So no reason it cant heal

[long bloom]

never

[agile matrix]

if i just clump em together wtih soul wire or whatever

[long bloom]

i forgot the exact reason but you can't

[timber glacier]

But like someone could get infinite amount of auric souls by farming yharon

[long bloom]

no

[long bloom]

.

[split mortar]

Wasnt it that the more yharon dies the less and less soul is lost at an exponential rate reaching 0 loss or smth as the proposed idea idr

[heavy zenith]

Pretty sure only the first kill is technically canon

[eager bluff]

at the edge of the world theres a mountain made of diamond
once every hundred years a bird comes by and pecks at the very peak
once the mountain is gone, one second of eternity shall have passed
except its the terrarian and yharon and the one second of eternity is like half a percent of yharons soul

[long bloom]

sounds familiar

[split mortar]

Also true

[timber glacier]

Yeah but he’ll eventually come back hes a pheonix

[heavy zenith]

Gotta draw some line between lore and gameplay man

[timber glacier]

In universe which won’t be seen in game

Also isn’t the way providence made the guardians into what they are by giving them like part of the soul or something

[long bloom]

she gave them some of her power

not specifically soul

[timber glacier]

But like isn’t the power she gained because of the soul so like how else could it be transfered

[long bloom]

:idk:

[heavy zenith]

So they got like 25% divided by three of them, she probably kept 75 or something

Thats what i imagine, or more like 80/20

How is still up for interpretation

[agile matrix]

im pretty sure its like an end crystal

they get power from providence but if they die providence doesnt exactly get harmed (outside of Mental)

[timber glacier]

I don’t know why but I have a feeling that it said somewhere that Providence was made far weaker because of empowering her guardians so like I kinda thought it was suggesting that like overall the amount of “power” between providence and her guards was overall weaker than if she didn’t help them but I may just be misinterpreting it

[long bloom]

well when you return said power she becomes (formerly) night providence

so yeah it's a substantial nerf

[timber glacier]

But like how could she’ve empowered the guardians outside of having part of her soul be transfered

[long bloom]

we don't know enough to make a conclusion one way or the other

[heavy zenith]

Probably some ritual that the Gods could do

We dont know

[long bloom]

it's very reasonable there's some magic spell for it

[timber glacier]

Also now that I think about it it would explain why the guardians all looks very much like providence since if it were part of her soul would probably be transfered too and impacted how they were changed by it

Like since a god’s appearance is changed by how they themselves are affected as a person by the soul

[heavy zenith]

I like to think they just cut the soul up wiith like, a butter knife or something

[timber glacier]

They cut it like those is it cake videos

[heavy zenith]

Right,

I wonder what kind of pillar Fovos could make with a Yharon Soul Fragment

[timber glacier]

Also like what reason in universe do we have to justify killing slime god because like aren’t they trying to keep balance so like why do we fight

[long bloom]

they jump you

[heavy zenith]

^

[long bloom]

for some reason idk why

[zenith geode]

lore wise like all of these things are jumping you

[long bloom]

maybe they're scared you're fucking up the balance

[timber glacier]

Isn’t slime god like literally all about being a coward and not fighting fights it can’t win

[zenith geode]

the only thing that doesnt jump you is draedon iirc

[heavy zenith]

I mean the next boss IS WoF so maybe they're like "Oh damn, I need to get rid of this guy"

[long bloom]

he thinks he can win prior to jumping you

[timber glacier]

Also aquatic scourge and queen bee cos they’re just animals you made want to kill you by attacking them or their home

[long bloom]

this is why he runs away when you start kicking his ass

[heavy zenith]

They're your stepping stones
-Yharim

[timber glacier]

But like then why do we go and kill it by killing queen slime, like what reason is there for us to at all justify that

[heavy zenith]

Gotta get strong somehow

[long bloom]

she jumps you again

[heavy zenith]

[timber glacier]

But like why try while mid transition into making a new guardian

[long bloom]

she did make the hallow paladin
it then ate her

[split mortar]

I feel like it would be related to star formation but theres already nebula taken
Protostar?

[heavy zenith]

Which one specialized in killing the mundane beings?

I imagine its that one but they just rebirth

[long bloom]

vortex iirc

[timber glacier]

But like, since don’t we learn in game that slime god is all about balance so like why don’t we spare it because its overall kind of a good thing to be alive

[long bloom]

because they're fighting you to the death??

[heavy zenith]

Oh, they all have egg forms that take multiple years to hatch again lul

[timber glacier]

But like if we beat it up to make it unable to fight for now couldn’t the terrarian just escape

[heavy zenith]

Yeah, the exit game button

Is the pause menu canon

[long bloom]

i mean you could also just not summon them or queen slime in game

[heavy zenith]

Don't answer that

[tepid crest]

I haven’t been caught up with the lore in a while, what exactly is draedon? Last time I read anything he was just some alien ai scientist

[timber glacier]

Hes a really smart Robot

[long bloom]

a robot scientist built on terraria

[heavy zenith]

I would totally link you my video but its disgustingly outdated

[timber glacier]

His basically only goal is to advance technology

[tepid crest]

I always liked him cause he looks cool

[long bloom]

yeah his sole motivation for doing anything is scientific progress

[tepid crest]

That’s pretty rad I’d say

[long bloom]

and he lacks any sense of morality, good or bad

[timber glacier]

Random question: do we now which gods pre-ascension weren’t humans, like how silva was/is still an elemental

[long bloom]

otonilou and tyrian were presumably still jellyfish and anglerfish people

that's it i think

[timber glacier]

Wait are there jellyfish people in calamity lore

[long bloom]

that we know of

[long bloom]

otonilou

[timber glacier]

It would be funny if she was just a normal jellyfish

[split mortar]

Can you post tyrian as well please

[timber glacier]

Like there definitely would be more that weren’t humans even if we only know of those 3 which weren’t

[split mortar]

I remember hearing someone headcanon slimegod as a goblin pre ascension

[zenith geode]

i just realised tyrian has a cannon arm

[long bloom]

girl how

[heavy zenith]

I was just thinking the same thing

[zenith geode]

i never really paid attention before

[heavy zenith]

Yeah ive never really sat and admired tyrians art as much as i just did

[timber glacier]

Do we know which gods were definitely humans pre-ascension, and which we just don’t know

[long bloom]

xeroc, providence and probably agnus

and slime god was at least humanoid

we know absolutely fuckall about dogma, war and shakidou

[split mortar]

Can i eat slime god

How that taste

[long bloom]

bad

[split mortar]

Peculiar

[heavy zenith]

Strawberry and grape

[split mortar]

Slime god vs general zat guy

[terse moss]

Do we have any idea whatsoever as to what post-ascension Xeroc even looks like

[long bloom]

no

[heavy zenith]

We just flee from each other

[raven brook]

nope

[terse moss]

Like is he just the Sun or is he still a guy

[timber glacier]

He isn’t literally the sun he just has control of it

[split mortar]

iirc gods shift based on how much they let their godhood define them
So
Probably extremely fucked up

[long bloom]

they're definitely not literally the sun

but probably very bright still

[heavy zenith]

He's just the sun We see him every day

[terse moss]

That's where he has been this whole time lol

[long bloom]

i imagine them somewhat like sisyphus prime

vaguely sun-like

[terse moss]

Fair, though I doubt he is going to have a beard made of blood lol

Would be peak

[timber glacier]

why would he have beard of blood

[long bloom]

xeroc with bloody hands from beating the shit out of distortion entities

[long bloom]

sisyphus prime does

[timber glacier]

Oh i’m dumb

[terse moss]

has he just been being doom slayer but in the distortion for 800 years

[long bloom]

observe

[long bloom]

probably

[terse moss]

Prime souls conceptually are just so cool

[long bloom]

true

[agile matrix]

why is this background blue but not fully blue

[long bloom]

it's transparent

[agile matrix]

comparison (spoilered bc yours was?)

[timber glacier]

Also something I’m very confused by is like what is providences design meant to be like I’m unsure what its meant to look like

Like are the crystal parts like “arms”

[long bloom]

this is because it was made in 2017

[terse moss]

I thought it kind of had its like "arms" crossed

[agile matrix]

i believe its kinda like Reuniclus???

i dont know. Spriter Hell.gif

[timber glacier]

I know this isn’t right but like the face looks weird since its so small and there are two larger gaps that I always thought were her eyess

[terse moss]

I feel like providence is also pretty low on the "needs resprited immediately" list

[long bloom]

this is the concept art the sprite is based on if it helps (not really)

[timber glacier]

Like it looks cool but like trying to comprehend it is near impossible and I kinda feel like it could use some major changes

[long bloom]

and higher quality official art of her face

[terse moss]

Thats peak

[long bloom]

common sentiment

it's pretty unreadable

[terse moss]

She doesn't have to be humanoid adjacent tho

like there are no biological forces making it suboptimal to be a rock fairy

[timber glacier]

Like I could see it being justified as after the ascension she may have changed way more than other gods so looks basically nithing like she did

[agile matrix]

it kinda does actually

[timber glacier]

Also the root-like elements are weird now that I think about it

[terse moss]

Wait are those ribs or claws

[timber glacier]

Shes the goddess of ash why does she have some root-like things

[heavy zenith]

.

[terse moss]

Even in the old lore, what was the connection between Providence and uelibloom

[timber glacier]

Also wait correct me if I’m wrong but like doesn’t the gods appearance reflect how much they changes as a person after they ascend, and as such doesn’t that kind of suggest if slime god was humanoid then like wouldn’t that mean they had been severely changed after ascending

[terse moss]

He is just a goopy guy

[timber glacier]

But like slime gods all about balance and doesn’t it kind of “starve” itself by doing this, which is intresting

[split mortar]

Guy did start hyperfocusing on balance and starving herself so yeah that makes sense

[heavy zenith]

Its because dragon of gluttony = slime. Slime are straight up manifestations of gluttony in a physical body (for lack of better term)

[split mortar]

Going against your godhood every step of the way is still letting it define you is the logic i think

[terse moss]

Is slime god ever getting re-tiered? Its baffling that he is so weak

especially since the evil 2 bosses and ravager, dead gods, are getting retiered

[timber glacier]

Yeah but that kind of suggests like it for some reason wanted to go against the domain so like it oculd be explained if it destroyed something and from then wanted to go against it

[split mortar]

Prolly swapping places with calclone eventually

[long bloom]

[terse moss]

But thats still super weak, even compared to the decaying corpses of other gods

[timber glacier]

The cal-clone & slime god swap isn’t guarenteed but is fairly possible

[long bloom]

it being weak is perfectly fine

[split mortar]

Also wdym baffling
Slimegod is the god of the weakest enemy type in the game and actively starves itself going against its domain it has every reason to be weak as shit and is still really strong compared to 99.9% of everything

[terse moss]

Aren't gods supposed to be like the strongest things there are (with a few obvious exceptions of course)

[timber glacier]

The dragon was the dragon of gluttony so like it isn’t really going to be one of the powerful gods

[terse moss]

I suppose that is true

[split mortar]

Not really

[long bloom]

having them all be omega powerful would be boring

variation is good

[timber glacier]

Yeah but it would probably still be the strongest slime-adjacent thing in universe

[terse moss]

I just wonder why stronger gods never ended up killing the weaker ones

[split mortar]

Providence is among the absolute strongest of gods so we know the average god is prob closer to the plantera golem range

[timber glacier]

Slime god is a coward

[split mortar]

Who said gods did not die?

[long bloom]

1. who says some didn't
2. why

what purpose would that serve

[terse moss]

Converting more followers through displays of strength, and further cementing you and your follower's territories against other religions

[long bloom]

3. slime god survived because it's the best at running away

[terse moss]

These interactions happen between real relgiions all the time, so it wouldn't be unrealistic for holy wars to occur, but now the gods actually participate as well

[split mortar]

Its just that yharim kinda killed an unprecedented amount of them before extremely quickly so its not allat relevant to point out if a few did or not

[terse moss]

also fair

[timber glacier]

Also like aren’t several gods not like evil and stuff like silva and ontinilue and like woundn’t neccesarily want the other to die

[split mortar]

The entire hallowed is made of dozens to hundreds of non evil gods

[terse moss]

Well yeah but if there were ~3000 gods than just by sheer numbers it had to have happened at least a few times

[split mortar]

Yeah

And nothing says it did not

[long bloom]

there were max ~1500

[split mortar]

O

[long bloom]

remember half the dragons died permanently

[timber glacier]

Like the main like evil gods we know of are like Providence, Dogma and War and maybe Shakidku but we know like nothing on them

[terse moss]

oh ur right

I just wish we had more info in general on pre-crusade relgious dynamics

[long bloom]

true

[terse moss]

how the gods and their followers interacted with each other and governmental structures

[split mortar]

Would be peak to know more but idk if we will learn much since
Yharim sorta killed a lot

[terse moss]

were nations built around gods? Were there pantheons? was it a "class" system like the dragons had?

[long bloom]

ilmeris was basically built around otonilou and tyrian

[timber glacier]

Also isn’t like the vernal pass where a village tied to silva was or something as well

[long bloom]

yeah

[terse moss]

Since gods were real, were "clerics" or priests of those gods the highest ranking officials, or were there still like divinely ordained kings and stuff

[timber glacier]

Also like won’t there eventually be a cathedral thing added where agnus’s worshipper’s were

[split mortar]

Amidias is a king but is also like not a monarchy or smth idr whats up with ilmeris politics

[heavy zenith]

Prime Minister

They essentially have what the UK does

[long bloom]

it's a constitutional monarchy

whatever that means

[split mortar]

I see

[heavy zenith]

like he was basically King Charles, i'm pretty sure that implies some sort of Ilmerian parliament

[timber glacier]

I would love if Calamity did eventually add stuff to tell the player about the gods like statues of them which depicted them

[heavy zenith]

I wanna see a Calamity book, like how Halo has their giant ass one, or LotR

[terse moss]

true

[timber glacier]

It would be really cool and could mean the player could learn the designs of the now dead gods ingame, like agnus, dogma, war, shakidoku, etc

[long bloom]

truer

[terse moss]

Probably could be tied to the evil 2 boss lore somehow

[timber glacier]

It could also make some sense if there were also things in game depicting them pre-ascension so those also can be established

[terse moss]

all the dead gods and little blurbs about them

[terse moss]

Honestly, I think it would make more sense for those to not be knowable. The gods destroyed their previous likenesses to make people believe they had always been gods

[timber glacier]

It could even just be that like there could be like random ruins structures for the worship of the gods that just have some statues for worldbuoilding

[long bloom]

where the hell was this said??

[terse moss]

No like just my personal opinion

not backed up by any official statements whatsoever

[timber glacier]

I guess but like we do currently know what like silva and xeroc looked pre-ascension throigh their official designs so like it would kind of be a bit iffy to never show these off in game

[terse moss]

poor phrasing on my end, apologies

[terse moss]

are those like properly official or concept arts?

[long bloom]

concept art is official?

[terse moss]

Yeah but sometimes its scrapped

like is it still currently planned to be the real thing (tm)

[long bloom]

silva and xeroc art hasn't been scrapped as far as we know

[terse moss]

ok cool

[timber glacier]

It could be cool though for the bosses which changed far more post ascension didn’t actually have anything to depict their pre-ascension because like maybe the gods rejected their past selves but like idk

[terse moss]

I really like them so I was hoping they hadnt

[long bloom]

except the old xeroc one obviously

[timber glacier]

Also I’d kind of love to learn of like some of the unknown non-major gods in some way, if its even just like their names and domains

Especially since aren’t the evil biomes made of the corpses of multiple gods

[terse moss]

There should be a fully canon but like not in game directory of every dragon, their domain, respective god, their domain, and reference images

like a bestiary of sorts

[split mortar]

Pre ascension designs afaik

[timber glacier]

Theres over 3k dragons total that’d be insane if it was every dragon

Like if it described a lot of them it could work but yeah

[long bloom]

3k was the maximum proposed number and is likely outdated

[split mortar]

I do not think there should be tbh
Just kinda sounds like it feeds info without having to read and comprehend the texts

[terse moss]

Oh wait I didn't know there were new ones

I am glad I asked then

[heavy zenith]

If they hired me for the sole purpose of making bios for all of these I would do it unpaid👀

[timber glacier]

Yeah but like just telling the player in a massive info dump would be odd

[split mortar]

Silva post ascension

[terse moss]

But like lowkey a 3k page monstrosity of a tome that has bios on every dragon and god would be the coolest thing ever

[heavy zenith]

RIGHT

[split mortar]

Calamity already struggles with having a lot of that

[split mortar]

Would be cool and also hell torture to make

[timber glacier]

Yeah but we don’t need it to be worse when it can be told to the player in more interesting way

[zenith geode]

interesting how silva got legs in her ascension

[terse moss]

Yeah

[split mortar]

She had legs pre ascension wdym

[split mortar]

She just has a cloak thingy around her waist

[heavy zenith]

It could just be an item, if the player wants to read it, it can. Its like Skyrim

[split mortar]

So you do not see much of her legs

[long bloom]

i once interacted with someone who thought she had no arms

[terse moss]

I just cant wait for post ascension xeroc art. its going to be peak

[long bloom]

[timber glacier]

Yeah but it could actually if it were like 3k pages it would probably end up bloating the mods literal files and causing issues

[split mortar]

Same

[terse moss]

No I mean like irl

[zenith geode]

?????

i cannot understand no arms

[heavy zenith]

[long bloom]

text files are the least data heavy possible

[terse moss]

Like a physical book

I would buy it

[zenith geode]

like theres already a precedent for elements not having legs so theres a chance but silva lacking arms??????

[heavy zenith]

If they gave me all the art they have and all the potential info, I would try to make it. That would be so sick

[split mortar]

Mistook her arms being behind her back as not having them i think

[long bloom]

they thought her arms tucked behind her back were the sides of her torso and her shoulders were just stumps yeah

[terse moss]

I could see it

[agile matrix]

unrelated but since ive i first saw silvas design, i really liked it. she's pretty in the "aww how sweet" way and i appreciate that

[timber glacier]

I do kind of feel like it would get to a point also like were if the dragons were all defined with their domains trying to make each of their domain’s unique would basically be impossible

[terse moss]

Fair

it would be hard after a few hundred

especially with them being so general like "mind" or "night"

[agile matrix]

like i havent seen very many others off the top of my head but like Xeroc is imposing but not exactly radiant. silva looks full of joy

[terse moss]

that takes up a ton of potential options

[timber glacier]

You’d probably end up with like dragon of like copper, dragon of gold, dragon of silver, etc

[terse moss]

Dragon of being slightly too late to everything because you keep misjudging how long it takes you to prepare

[zenith geode]

dragon of tungsten-boride compounds

[timber glacier]

Also each of the dragons would potentially have to have a imperfect ritual counterpart where its an adjacent concept due to how ascensions work

[terse moss]

Dragon of specifically the left leg of pants

[heavy zenith]

It could be somewhat similar to chainsaw man, where the importance of their domain makes them stronger (and in turn, more important in Calamity's case)

Eh, now that i think about it, it kinda screws with the dragons we already know about

[terse moss]

If that were true I cannot imagine rebirth would be that high, considering he is like the only guy that can do it to begin with, so it must not be that important of a concept

[heavy zenith]

exactly lol

[terse moss]

Nepotism dragon

[split mortar]

Dragon of In stars and time

[timber glacier]

Also theres 0 chance it could possibly have pictures in the book so like it would just be text with nothing actually showing them which would in some ways be very underwhelming

[long bloom]

dragon of green

[terse moss]

We need a dragon of drunk driving

Draedon, invent cars

[timber glacier]

Like if it were listing some of the at least decently relevant dragons and gods it could work

[heavy zenith]

that's why games have entire teams of designers

[split mortar]

Xziergpt make 3000 very unique dragon domains

[heavy zenith]

but i understand the limitation

[timber glacier]

3000 dragon designs would be insane

[terse moss]

do fan outsourcing for concept arts

[heavy zenith]

This

[zenith geode]

dragon of 3 inch tungsten cube
dragon of 4 inch tungsten cube

[timber glacier]

Then it probably would have to be non-canon

[zenith geode]

dragon of 5 inch tungsten cube

[terse moss]

I think they would skip 6 and go directly to like 12 for no reason

[zenith geode]

the 4 inch tungsten cube dragon is identical in design to the 3 inch tungsten cube dragon except that it is 33% larger in all dimensions

[terse moss]

Dragon of 24 inch tungsten cube

[timber glacier]

It could be cool if it was like a big community project where people could submit different dragon ideas and stuff

[terse moss]

yeah

[sinful adder]

Draedon: "this thing you're trying to get me to build is stupid. If you're going to make roads dedicated to a specific vehicle, you should optimize both the road and vehicle for each other. Following this reasoning, the optimal transportation method is the train."

[terse moss]

some like entirely community run and vaguely dev moderated thing

[raven brook]

hi its 4 am what are we talking about

[terse moss]

based draedon

he should invent high speed rail

[split mortar]

Dragon and god stuff

[zenith geode]

dragon of 4 inch tungsten cube

[long bloom]

and dragon of 5 inch tungsten cube

[timber glacier]

But like it wouldn’t be 100% canon and also it is still 3k total dragons and like thats still a massive amount and would need like most of the fan artists

[zenith geode]

which is 25% larger than the dragon of 4 inch tungsten cube in all dimensions

[raven brook]

there isnt really a exact canon number ofr how many dragons there were and i doubt we'll ever know

[terse moss]

It should keep going like this until the dragon of 128 foot tungsten cube

[zenith geode]

what if someone absorbed all the souls of the x inch tungsten cube dragons

[terse moss]

it then simply stops

[raven brook]

its not a detail we need to know nor do i really think there'd be a way to communicate it ingame

at best maybe a comment from yharim or xeroc under the right circumstances

[long bloom]

we're talking about a hypothetical irl dragon encyclopedia book

[sinful adder]

We know it was a few thousand

[timber glacier]

It would be cool to learn about some of the minor ones though in game in some ways

[terse moss]

Yharim listing off his exact kill count during conversation so we know how many gods there were

[raven brook]

nah that's just. dev statement moment. its an approximation

[long bloom]

that is not 100% confirmed

[split mortar]

Thats from an ex dev and also said ages ago its dubious at best

[long bloom]

or even 50%

[sinful adder]

Yeah

[raven brook]

even then you also would have to consider auric dragons that died prior

[long bloom]

.

[sinful adder]

Ah ok I knew it was an approximation I didn't know it was THAT dubious

[raven brook]

atleast i suppose that means you'd know a minimum. lol

[sinful adder]

Anyways: the dragons mostly deserved it

[terse moss]

I guess just like roughly 2.5x for those killed by fovos and those not killed by Yharim

would be close enough

[raven brook]

generally i think super specific numbers on alot of things are not things that should ever be communicated ingame

and probably wouldn't be

[long bloom]

[raven brook]

specific numbers in writing are usually just a bad idea. there are exceptions, of course, but its generally more favouratlbe to give a relative estimation over specific numbers

[terse moss]

Turns out there were only 7 dragons, and the gods are really really fast and have convincing costumes

[timber glacier]

Okay but like the dragons vary in their morality and stuff that like there were 100% dragons which didn’t deserve it

[sinful adder]

And also even if they didn't they had to die anyway because societies absolutely need individuals to permanently die in order to function and better themselves.
Imagine if immortality was invented like a hundred years ago. All the super racist people would still be around and running everything

[raven brook]

you dont need to know there were specifically 2.673 auric dragons to understand what "there were thousands of dragons" would convey

and the vagueness of the information lets people headcanon and imagine with more freedom

[sinful adder]

I covered that in my second part

[heavy zenith]

right but each one has a different power, therefore it does

[raven brook]

super specific numbers usually feem ore restraining and make the world feel a little bit too understood

[timber glacier]

Well i guess but like the dragons dying doesn’t mean that there wouldn’t be individuals who wouldn’t eventually die since like many gods were also somewhat immortal so it just transfers the immortality to others

[sinful adder]

But even without that, the existence of a dragon society as it was and the dragon's participation in it was already bad enough to warrant their death (because of the oppression they inflicted on the majority of other sapient beings)

[raven brook]

adding a hint of vagueness to things can help it feel more like a fantastical world you can immerse yourself in and fill out the blanks in your head

[terse moss]

ANother consideration is what is even knowable information to your character at all

[raven brook]

thanks for listening to my ted talk

and now for my 2nd ted talk

[long bloom]

first i have this relevant meme

[sinful adder]

But yeah the dragons most of all deserved to die for the same reasons the European colonizers that invaded the rest of the world deserved to die and unfortunately didn't soon enough

[raven brook]

Dragon society at large ahd some deep rooted issues and itd be for the best if the status quo cahnged eventually. this dosent change the fact a entire species being hunted like animals, certainly alot of which were likely innocent or atleast no malicious enough to deserve death, is still pretty bad

[terse moss]

I cannot wait to get to grad school and be the aforementioned person with the niche phd

[raven brook]

true !

[timber glacier]

Individuals shouldn’t always suffer due to the impact their whole group had if the individual didn’t cause it

[sinful adder]

EXACTLY
that's why I am usually vague about things I write unless I am designing a very specific self enclosed physics system for the plot

[terse moss]

I always just give like semi-specific AP levels to give people a rough idea of where the characters stand

There is a huge difference between being able to punch through a wall and blow up the moon, and you gotta stay in your strata

[sinful adder]

I think actually it did and if death by old age didn't exist then we would have to hunt and kill old racist or rich people or else society would decay into the worst possible scenario you can imagine in a generation or two.

[long bloom]

yeah genocide is bad i think

[terse moss]

So like, there are literally active politicians that were born before world war 2

[raven brook]

you are assuming every dragon was a old racist asshole

[sinful adder]

Death MUST come for everyone, no matter what

[raven brook]

which is quantifiably not the case

[terse moss]

Like that is functionally already true

[raven brook]

vetrasyl is living... well. not. not living. not anymore. you get it

proof that not every dragon was a racist asshole

[sinful adder]

See even if they weren't, they hold some piece of that past in themselves. Even Abraham Lincoln thought black people were a little lesser. Like I said, death MUST come for us all

[long bloom]

if you killed everyone who's even slightly bigoted there would be nobody left alive

[heavy zenith]

Several people are typing...

[timber glacier]

Also doesn’t the fact that old duke is still alive by the time of the game doesn’t that kind of suggest that dragons dying of old age by the point of the game occuring not relevent since old duke was around when the world soul stuff happened and as such have long enough lifespans for old age to not actually end up being a cause of a dragon’s death

[raven brook]

The dragons already lost their immortality the moment Yharon stopped reibrthing them for whatever reason, so

also by this logic

[sinful adder]

Nah. Not if you do it slow enough that you don't kill everyone

[raven brook]

yharim's genocide is good also

[terse moss]

I do think that the idea that these people are fundamentally incapable of learning anything new and must die is kind of hillarious. Like abraham lincoln like 150 years later with the exact same opinions he had during the civil war and they haven't changed at all

[sinful adder]

The difference is that all those people would have died of old age eventually and so they had natural time to keep them in check

[raven brook]

Also yeah people are capable of change

[timber glacier]

Also like by a similar logic Silva also deserves to die since she’s basically will never die

[sinful adder]

Maybe he wouldn't, but enough would. I personally have never in my life met someone who isn't a child who has changed for the better. People seemingly stop being capable of change after they grow up

[terse moss]

Bro sees us land on the moon and invent the internet and is like "nah, I'm good"

[terse moss]

True, neuroplacticity is rough

[sinful adder]

Are you sure

[raven brook]

Yeah

[terse moss]

Old people just change slower

[long bloom]

my dad used to be a way bigger asshole

he's mostly chill now

[sinful adder]

I think that practically you can maybe get away with a few extraordinarily good people being immortal. Silva seems like a good example.

[timber glacier]

But also some dragons probably were like many dragons who did important enough things for the world to justify them remaining

[raven brook]

The mindset of "people cant change so if they are bad or did bad things should die" is horrible and genuinely harmful actually but thats another story

[long bloom]

yeah that perspective fucking sucks

[timber glacier]

Like some dragons did in fact deserve, like the dragon of fire or something cos they were like evil right

[sinful adder]

Maybe so. I don't doubt that some dragons didn't deserve to die like that. But even then it might have been best for the world if they eventually did

[long bloom]

he was super evil yeah

[terse moss]

I think it depends more on incentive structures. If people are still incentivised to be evil, they will be evil until that strucutre changes

[long bloom]

but then you have vetrasyl, who decidedly wasn't

[raven brook]

There are people the world would certainly be better without but i also stand by the fact that alot of people can grow and change to be better with the rihgt amount of understanding and education

[terse moss]

Education and exposure are the deciding factors

[raven brook]

people are shaped by their enviroment etc etc

[long bloom]

they also have to be willing to change

very crucial

[sinful adder]

My perspective might be too extreme. Keep in mind I've been raised by the biggest dumbasses on the planet who will claim there's no such thing as a bad person and then also make exceptions for extremists of any type regardless of what they're extreme about

[terse moss]

There are cases of active kkk members actually talking to a black person and then changing for the better afterwards. its often fearmongering and lack of exposure

[terse moss]

interesting views indeed

[timber glacier]

Also like i guess some dragons deserved to die but like not because they’re awful but because they were suffering cos like wasn’t the dragon of death like sad and stuff cos everything around it died or something

[terse moss]

Not even like politically partisan? Just pro extermism as a principle?

[raven brook]

the dragon of death was in intentional exhile iirc

[sinful adder]

You know, fair enough, I do wonder if those people were already kinda good and just ignorant, so they didn't change that much, like they were brainwashed rather than evil.

[raven brook]

we don't really know if he was sad

but he did exhile himself because of his evil death smog or whatever

[timber glacier]

I’d assume so since it would be incredibly lonely to have a kill aura 24/7

[terse moss]

No one really starts out as good or evil. Like people might have tendencies at most, but 99% of it is education, exposure, social groups, incentives, and environment

[sinful adder]

No, they're not pro extremism, they're anti extremism regardless of party, except that their idea of extreme is solely rooted as being relative to the status quo rather than them having any moral principles whatsoever

[terse moss]

Oh, john centrist

interesting

thats arguably more baffling

[long bloom]

centrists be like "i can excuse fascism but draw the line at being against fascism"

[terse moss]

So true

"I think everyone is equally corrupt"

"We just need to work together"

[sinful adder]

My parents will only ever drop this belief if they themselves have directly experienced the thing they are talking about, but they never actually become consciously aware that they've changed their stance

[terse moss]

Yeah, it do be like that

[sinful adder]

They are undoubtedly incapable of not only change, but also rational thought and observation and questioning things

[terse moss]

people in general can't really empathise with something fully unless they themselves have experienced it or something adjacent

[raven brook]

Tbf i do agree with this to some extent
I think humanity is at its best when we're working together but bigotry and otherism means that instead theres basically social factions constantly at war with eachother

[sinful adder]

Idk, I definitely can, it's just sometimes difficult

[raven brook]

and yeah its basically just the billionaires and politicans fault

as it tends to be

[terse moss]

But like I don't want to do a group project with someone who wants to kill everyone below a specific color threshold. I don't think they should be allowed to be part of the group project at all

[raven brook]

That's the problem

[sinful adder]

There are absolutely 100% inherently evil people. It may never be clear how they get that way but they do somehow. Those people, as well as those supporting them, absolutely must die if they cannot change

[raven brook]

THe fact those issues exist at all is what makes them not be able ot work together

[sinful adder]

I think we are on the same page there

[terse moss]

indeed

[raven brook]

A ideal world is one where they don't exist and humans just see eachother for what they are which is just like. guys. we all just guys

[terse moss]

Yeah

would be nice

[raven brook]

some people are too far gone to really be able to change and/or have done so much irreparable or continous damage that trying to get them to change would not be worth the effort

[long bloom]

[raven brook]

but there are others where they can change their ways still, ive seen it happen

it matters alot on context

most things matter on context

[terse moss]

I suppose, but rehabilitation should always be the primary choice if possible

[raven brook]

yeah i think rehabilitation should always be the first choice

if its clear that dosent work then eah

[terse moss]

Yeah

Its unfortunate and I wish it didn't have to be this way but they are harming other innocent people

Its more of an unfortunate necessity ig

[terse moss]

I think prison should be for like this case exclusively

rehabilitation doesn't work and they are still an active threat to themselves and others

[raven brook]

4 am lore discussion talking about philosophy and politics

type shit

[terse moss]

True

peak lore discussion

I wish I had time to take more poli sci classes

the intro ones are super boring

[timber glacier]

Somewhat related thing but I wonder how many of the dragon’s deaths were consentual because some almost certainly were

[terse moss]

Death's probably was

If I had to guess

[split mortar]

Otonilou and silva and agnus are most likely to have been consensual ascensions if i were to guess which of the gods we already know of

Xeroc is also a possibility

[heavy zenith]

I'm sure some people just kinda stumbled onto the souls from the fovos war no?

[stoic lark]

Xeroc's intentionally left unclear iirc

[timber glacier]

I’d imagine there’d be a decent amount of the dragons letting someone ascend because they’d think it’d be better for that person to get their stuff then potentially let another potentially more dangerous person gain it

[terse moss]

Ooh, that’s a good point

Harm reduction

Probably what the dragon of life did

I have a hard time imagining the elemental of life would willingly kill the dragon of life

[long bloom]

elemental of nature

byeah close enough

[sinful adder]

Calling it nature when it is literally only the living aspects of nature seems obtuse

If you take nature and subtract water, rock, heat, and air, what are you left with?

Life

[terse moss]

Either way tho

I don’t see why they would be on bad terms

[sinful adder]

They also got the same domain

Which probably means something

[timber glacier]

Its cos it was a perfect ascension like xeroc

Cos she had the terminus while doing it

[terse moss]

Do we know how?

That seems important

[sinful adder]

I think the only unfortunate part is that these people exist in the first place

[timber glacier]

But like if it was consentual and if xeroc’s could’ve potentially also been in some ways agreed upon maybe that would be important in the perfect ascension ritual

[terse moss]

But you can’t stop that

[split mortar]

Perfect ascension requires the terminus
Her and xeroc are the only gods with association with the terminus as well

[terse moss]

Right but how did Silva get associated with the terminus

Like how did she acquire it

[split mortar]

She is known for her abyss baths so like

Take a guess

[terse moss]

I thought it was down there because of her

[split mortar]

Take a wild guess how the person who gets thrown into the abyss a lot got the artifact that was stored in the abyss

[timber glacier]

she is also like the incarnation of nature so like there is a possibility that she was willingly given it by someone

[terse moss]

Unless xeroc used it, hid it down there, she found it, used it, and then hid it again

[terse moss]

But she got thrown into abyss for being a god

[split mortar]

No xeroc yeeted it down there to keep perfect ascension away from people he says this in bossrush iirc

[terse moss]

This post ascension

[sinful adder]

Consider: do you think there is a single billionaire who would be capable of being rehabilitated, who wouldn't go back to doing exactly the same things again if doing the opportunity? After all, they could have given away their wealth and been a better person all this time. If they do after you try rehabilitate them, wasn't it most likely just the threat that forced them to be good?

[split mortar]

Another abyss bath in the past duh

Sorry for being rude

[terse moss]

But the money makes them evil to an extent. While more ruthless, unempethetic people are more likely to become billionaires due to the harm to others required to accrue that wealth, the wealth itself and your position and power also makes you more evil naturally

[split mortar]

Xeroc even says an immortal had the terminus before
Silva is immortal
She got the terminus

[terse moss]

Basically, it’s complicated

[timber glacier]

Also like deep in the abyss probably wasn’t as protected as it is currently since didn’t silva get the primordial wyrm to protect it

[sinful adder]

I'm pretty sure it's 100% the former thing. They are rich because they were in a position where they could get that way and lacked any sense of morality from the start. They choose to be evil

[terse moss]

The primordial Wyrm really should be tied to the terminus

[split mortar]

It is

It protects the terminus

[sinful adder]

I don't think it's complicated. 100% of ultra rich people are irredeemably evil

[terse moss]

So do we just kill everyone born with narcissistic or sociopathic tendencies?

Like just off the bat

[terse moss]

I mean you should have to fight it to get it

[sinful adder]

No, you give them a chance to keep their evil nature under control, and if they don't and feel no remorse for it, then you kill them

[terse moss]

I feel as though this may lead to some issues

[sinful adder]

I think it would lead to fewer issues than we have now

[terse moss]

Maybe

If it isn’t exploited

You could just call anyone x thing and have them executed if that is the working criteria

If we need substantive proof, that’s just recreating the legal system

[timber glacier]

I would also love to learn about the most “stupid” circumstances behind a dragon’s soul being used to ascend someone like something like a dragon decided to try to use it as leverage in a “deal” and ended up having it be used

[sinful adder]

Oh I mean yes you use the legal system and just make excessive profit and wealth a crime

[terse moss]

I would prefer to change the incentive structures to make a system that does not incentivize the existence of billionaires. Any law can simply be paid off

[sinful adder]

100% tax rate on wealth over 100 million dollars of value. Catch someone attempting to circumvent that? Death penalty

[terse moss]

We need more fundamental alterations

[terse moss]

They pay off the police

Now what

[sinful adder]

That too, I'm sure there are better ways

[terse moss]

They hire a private army

Now what

You can’t stop people from expanding any cracks in a system, and there are always cracks

[sinful adder]

Then have a militia system rather than a police sustem. Arm every man, woman and child and train them to fight if needed

But yeah that's just one idea

[terse moss]

So everyone is always militarized

Every man woman and child has military grade combat gear and training

[sinful adder]

In all seriousness that's probably not the best way to do it

But it's certainly an alternative

[terse moss]

True, but I think as a thought experiment it can have some useful outcomes

What works and what doesn’t

I am a firm believer in public education as a method

Especially with regards to media literacy

[sinful adder]

But hypothetically if every person had the ability to physically defend themselves from any plausible threat a criminal could pose, that would be an interesting system

[terse moss]

That’s just cyberpunk basically

Any random guy could just slime you out

Hope you get lucky ig

[sinful adder]

Make physical force an ineffective method of control by making every single person strong. What would that give you? Anarchy?

[terse moss]

Also, it is almost 4am here and I gotta sleep 😔

[sinful adder]

Would anarchy be preferable to our current system? I think it might

[terse moss]

Yeah

[terse moss]

I personally don’t. I like legal inability to kill me

Anyway, I must be off

[timber glacier]

It would definitely not be good to start now because like anyone could just go ahead and cause doomsday via firing off our nukes

[sinful adder]

Sure, but keep in mind that any system like that is only as reliable as it's legal system is

So its back to the same issue

[timber glacier]

I am curious if like any non-auric dragons tried to ascend with an auric dragon’s soul

[sinful adder]

That would be interesting

[timber glacier]

Like couldn’t that occur probably and like what would happen

[sinful adder]

I think they'd just become a very dragon-like god

[timber glacier]

But like i do wonder how similar when the dragons split up the world soul compared to god ascension are

Also another thing would like a child ascending impact the resulting god compared ro hypothetically if the same person was an adult

[split mortar]

If the god domain turns the child inorganic
Yeah probably a lot since they cannot go through the normal biological functions of growing up i think

[timber glacier]

Also like could an auric dragon also ascend if they got their hands on another auric soul

[split mortar]

Yeah
We have no fucking clue what would happen
But yeah

[timber glacier]

It would be cool to learn more of how it works like we don’t know what allows something to ascend

[split mortar]

The devs have said the ritual can be done on basically anything its just that absorbing an auric soul is the only worthwhile thing because of the domain while absorbing a normal soul gives you like 3% mana boost and mental issues

[timber glacier]

Also random question do we know if any martians have had gone to Terraria before the martian madness event or no

[split mortar]

🤷

[timber glacier]

I know you wouldn’t know but like would plants be able to ascend? Does it have to be like an animal, and if so could coral hypothetically ascend

[sinful adder]

I suspect they'd have to be sapient to successfully perform the ritual

[timber glacier]

Isn’t sapience kind of not like a entirely firm idea like some stuff could kind of be sapient but like it being debatable

[split mortar]

They need to be able to do a complex as shit ritual

[split mortar]

That parts pretty damn fucking concrete

[timber glacier]

But do we even know if the ritual has to be performed by the person ascending or not or If it could be done by someone onto someone else

[split mortar]

P sure ive seen dev statements say you cannot ascend someone else ima check on that validity though

Old as shit so ima ping to see if stip will correct this or not but this the first result on this topic i found

[timber glacier]

Oh okay that is important

[split mortar]

I do anticipate that it will stay a only you can perform it on yourself thing so then the whole you gotta kill a dragon to do it thing will be valid but also i can see why itd still work if not every god was even the one to pull the trigger on a dragon

[timber glacier]

Weren’t providence and her guardians arguing who should ascend so like you probably don’t directly have to be the precice entity to directly kill the dragon

[split mortar]

By pull the trigger i mean do the ascension

Since that actually keeps the dragon doen

Unlike normal death

[timber glacier]

I really hope we eventually learn about the many of the more minor gods especially since that would be really great for the worlds’ worldbuilding

Especially since the evil biomes are made of the remains of multiple dead gods learning about the ones that make them up would be really cools

Especially if the minor gods have parts of them reflected in the re-tiered hive mind and perforators

It would also kind of help make yharim’s crusade make more sense why so many people followed him since we only really know of like 3 known evil gods and he had only even killed 2 of them so like as is it in some ways could use more explanation by establishing more evil gods he killed to make people believe his cause

[eternal veldt]

What if i feed an auric soul to a fishron 🙏

[sinful adder]

Not sure. Can souls even be eaten

[eternal veldt]

Also where there cases where the gods were better than the dragons that they consumed?

[eternal veldt]

No i meant what if i made a fishron ascend. Would it just become an auric dragon then?

[sinful adder]

Yes

Well, no it would become a god

[eternal veldt]

Ahhh rip

[sinful adder]

But if it had a world soul fragment it would become an auric dragon

[eternal veldt]

Guessing those are gone

[split mortar]

Yeah faith ate the last

[eternal veldt]

RIP

[split mortar]

Probably xeroc

[eternal veldt]

No i meant morally

🙏

[split mortar]

Yeah

Zeratros probably caused a mass extinction event by making the sun scorch the surface much more then usual
While xeroc
Did not

[eternal veldt]

I see

[split mortar]

And also Zeratros was the king of the auric dragons who were sorta oppressive to everyone else iirc

[eternal veldt]

😭 so yharim literally just fell for propaganda.

[split mortar]

Yes

the auric dragons prob believed their own propaganda as well i think

[eternal veldt]

Another reason for me to hate the sentient KFC 🥀

[sinful adder]

Yeah they're the worst

[eternal veldt]

And here we are where the terrarian the designated janitor has to clean up everyone's mess. 🥀

[split mortar]

This

[sinful adder]

Yeah the dragons were basically just stupid rich people who were mostly evil

Some of them did good but they really didn't deserve any of what they had

[eternal veldt]

To be fair the gods weren't any better 🥀

[sinful adder]

Absolutely

[eternal veldt]

Except for a few

[sinful adder]

But some of the gods were way better

[eternal veldt]

Real

[split mortar]

Zeratros is yharim tier or higher off of just having the auric domain of primordial light and nothing else
Coulda probably been stronger then xeroc if he like trained since xeroc got a damaged soul to ascend with and also much less time then even the theoretical lowest time zeratros existed for

[eternal veldt]

I do think it's mostly because he though he was already the strongest. No other threats outside.

[split mortar]

The moon being the strongest calamity character due to having its own unbroken celestial soul is funny to me
And it uses its power to be goth and raise the dead every now and then

[eternal veldt]

Then fovos shows up

[sinful adder]

We know of just two unambiguously good dragons. The dragon of life and the dragon of storms.

[sinful adder]

Wait is this real

The moon has its own world soul?

[split mortar]

Syrup said it earlier lemme grab the statements

[sinful adder]

That's sick

[eternal veldt]

Sun vs moon

[sinful adder]

So I guess now we know that celestial bodies have souls

[split mortar]

Yeah
Also the sun prob has one

The moon is alive and is evil

[eternal veldt]

How come twilight is weak though. Is empress just dumb? Or the sun and moon are different from their wielders?

[sinful adder]

That's hilarious

[split mortar]

And is the literal strongest calamity character due to having an unbroken celestial soul
Unless its beaten by the sun

[eternal veldt]

Imagine if noxus is hiding in the moon

[split mortar]

Eol uses sunlight no?

[eternal veldt]

At night

[split mortar]

Not sunlight

Starlight

[eternal veldt]

Ohhh starlight

[sinful adder]

Headcanon: Primordial light prevents the moon's power to create fucky monsters, and solar eclipses reverse that

[eternal veldt]

Im guessing she couldn't get the permission of the moon then 🙏

[split mortar]

The moon does have a debuff alt to daybroken no? Do we know what it is

Night wither i thinkit called

Also i think syrup confirmed hydrogen stars exist

[eternal veldt]

Oooh that's interesting...

[split mortar]

Oh what the suns a regular star
Why does terraria have a hydrogen star orbiting it what

[eternal veldt]

Wait what if empress wielded moonlight instead of starlight???

[sinful adder]

What
This is huge

Wait that seems very wrong

[split mortar]

Yeah syrup has said a lotta stuff the past week iirc

[sinful adder]

This sorta upends the entire cosmology of calamity

If stars exist then the processes to form them and planets must also exist

[split mortar]

We do know planets exist

[sinful adder]

Planets always form from the disks of leftover stuff around stars

[zenith geode]

see: terraria, mars

[sinful adder]

Yes but the key thing is that terraria must be orbiting a hydrogen star

Or used to be

[eternal veldt]

Hmmm would empress be as strong as daylight if this were to happen?

[split mortar]

Terraria has a hydrogen star orbiting it somehow

[split mortar]

No

[sinful adder]

So then: is calamity's sun a hydrogen star

[untold forge]

Don't think about it too hard

[split mortar]

Yeah

[sinful adder]

Hydrogen stars can't ever orbit planets. They can't be that small

[split mortar]

Read from this and down

[sinful adder]

The laws of physics (nuclear physics specifically) absolutely prevent this

[untold forge]

Which implies the planet orbits the star

And not the other way around

[split mortar]

Luckily the sun is a hydrogen star with a pinch of magic so it might be kicking physics in the leg a bit

[zenith geode]

idk maybe terraria is obscenely dense idk

[split mortar]

Yeah but devs have explicitly said sun orbits terraria

[long bloom]

i'm pretty sure the irl laws of physics also prevents magic

so who cares

[zenith geode]

realised i both started and ended that with idk

[sinful adder]

Ok so then terraria now actually properly or it's a hydrogen star

[untold forge]

Guj

[sinful adder]

Well not exactly. There's a difference between "doesn't include" and "explicitly prevents"

[untold forge]

Guh

[zenith geode]

oh yeah isnt terraria's sun like absolutely tiny

[sinful adder]

Is this still true

[untold forge]

[long bloom]

we dunno rn

[split mortar]

Going off old stuff its smaller then terraris though i would not be surprised thats outdated

Keep in mind the sun must also have a soul due to being a celestial object

[zenith geode]

oh got changed from "similar to the moon" (we have no size for the moon besides vice versa) to "good question"

[sinful adder]

See like. Stars need to have mass high enough that their gravity is stronger than the forces that hold atoms together. Because of this, anything larger than a star must naturally also end up doing fusion. So the sun can't orbit terraria

[long bloom]

making terraria orbit the sun would be a ridiculous xeroc upscale which is probably why calamity universe is geocentric

[long bloom]

ok

calamity has different hydrogen that doesn't do that

[split mortar]

Sun has a soul and it wills itself to do fusion clearly

[zenith geode]

mana fucks that shit up real good

[long bloom]

there are a million ways to explain this

[sinful adder]

Can't. Have to replace atoms entirely for that to work

[zenith geode]

ok genuinely all three of these are valid answers

[untold forge]

Yeah honestly it's just easier to assume the universe isn't a 1 to 1 replication of real world physics

[long bloom]

the point is it don't matter

[sinful adder]

Hydrogen doing what it does is a consequence of the underlying physics and if you change one thing you have to change everything else too

In order for it to work

[split mortar]

Yeah but thats less fun then doing funky imaginings

[untold forge]

Truee

[zenith geode]

do you think the sun's soul likes yuri

[sinful adder]

I would like them to make it so that the sun is normal and xeroc's powers are different

[split mortar]

The moon and sun are probably yuri maybe idk

[untold forge]

Obviously

Doomed sun and moon yuri

[sinful adder]

Maybe xeroc can make mini suns, or portals to the sun, or objects that mimic the power of the sun

[long bloom]

that would be lame i think

[sinful adder]

Then make the sun tiny instead

[long bloom]

whatever they're doing with xeroc rn is undoubtedly peak

[eternal veldt]

Why? Isn't the moon as strong as sun or is it weaker?

[split mortar]

Oh with what we know of auric domains xeroc can probably jusg make primordial light without using any energy

[long bloom]

so we'll just wait and see

[sinful adder]

Tiny and not hydrogen

[split mortar]

Moonlight is not as strong as sunlight even if the objects themselves are more equal

[long bloom]

or: the sun can be big and hydrogen and not orbit terraria because this universe doesn't actually exist

[zenith geode]

god is evil because he doesnt use his sunlight to power the world's solar panels boom yharim is 100% justified and a good guy

[split mortar]

Since domaims basically just
Let you do stuff relating to that domain without expending any energy or stamina

[long bloom]

true

[untold forge]

The sun is big and orbits terraria

[split mortar]

True

Can i beat xziers ankles with a bat

[long bloom]

it still takes stamina iirc
it's just an infinite reserve of mana to do whatever that domain does

[long bloom]

ow

[untold forge]

Rip xzier

[long bloom]

it's fine i'll get my spare ankles

[split mortar]

Whats the difference between using stamina or mana…

[long bloom]

i'm pretty sure casting magic takes some amount of stamina

[split mortar]

Peculiar

[long bloom]

it would be kinda broken otherwise

[untold forge]

I wonder how much mass the black holes have that are created with event horizon

[split mortar]

Thats intentional though
Like
Being a god is meant to be broken 😭

[sinful adder]

Why did the world soul contain a sun controlling domain if the sun is a separate celestial body with its own soul

[long bloom]

i meant for regular mages

[sinful adder]

This seems weird

[sinful adder]

Do you mean the weapon?

They're not real black holes

[untold forge]

Ya

[sinful adder]

Otherwise they'd destroy the world

[split mortar]

Suns not made of primordial light
xeroc no longer controls the sun in that way since its not made of primordial light

[untold forge]

Ya

[zenith geode]

can mages get bone marrow transplants from better mages to have better mana production

[untold forge]

Wait actually though

[split mortar]

Oh embers outdated rip

[sacred pilot]

Also in Calamity's cosmology, the sun is smaller and orbits around the planet right?

[long bloom]

shrug

[split mortar]

Supposedly??? On old info but uh ??????

[long bloom]

we're waiting on a verdict

[sinful adder]

Ok so then Primordial light is sunlight but xeroc doesn't control the sun and the sun isn't actually made of primordial light and has its own soul, but the world soul contains a sunlight domain

This is wacky

[long bloom]

i think the sun just produces primordial light now

[sinful adder]

It was a lot simpler when the sun was small and orbited terraria

[long bloom]

that'd make the most sense

[zenith geode]

like if for example jeremy from accounting who dabbles in magic and can make a tiny wisp with enough focus got a transplant from permafrost could he (ignoring the learning required) cast significantly better spells

[split mortar]

Sunlight hits the planet and is quite relevant to the entire planet so it makes sense to me the sunlight gets a domain

[sinful adder]

But that's still weird because then why did the world soul contain a primordial light domain too

[untold forge]

This is definitely the wrong chat to be in at 4am after being awake all day lmao

[trim edge]

i thought they changed moon lord to not be from space so they could make terraria the centre of the universe

i guess not

[long bloom]

also melon can you find where it was said that every celestial body has a soul, i didn't see that one

[long bloom]

that's not why

[zenith geode]

tried to think of a really good mage who wasnt Special Case™ (cal)

[split mortar]

Cosmology hell upon thee

[long bloom]

also terraria wasn't the center of the universe

just its solar system

[split mortar]

Do we even know that

[untold forge]

Fr, had to turn off my pre existing hyper fixation knowledge

[split mortar]

I linked it earlier this convo lemme grab it again

[untold forge]

Brace yourself for flat terraria and the firmament

[split mortar]

Basically this entire convo has neat info iirc

[long bloom]

in the lore rewrite, the devs were trying to make terraria not the special boy center of everything happening in space

[long bloom]

i will ignore that because it explains why the moon's evil

[sinful adder]

Oh boy can't wait for a fourth major lore rewrite

[long bloom]

which is cringe

[split mortar]

Ok but the sun and moon are number 1 and 2 strongest calamity characters
Not the god of the sun
The actual fucking sun

[eternal veldt]

Noxus hiding in the moon

[untold forge]

Suddenly I understand why most of the lore isn't public

[long bloom]

that we know of

[eternal veldt]

What if noxus is the moons wielder but since moon is alot weaker than sunlight xeroc is still stronger.

[split mortar]

There can theoretically be someone stronger then anyone in almost any fiction this point is redundant

[long bloom]

noxus isn't a god

or related to terraria or space

[split mortar]

Noxus is a distortion entity

[long bloom]

fair

[untold forge]

Noxus is hungry

[sinful adder]

Hey so how do world souls get born anyways? If you tore apart the world and put it back together would the new one you made grow a new soul

[long bloom]

a while ago a writer implied that every god dying was kinda fucking up terraria because the world soul shards were returning or something

[split mortar]

We dunno, might just happen over time idk

[long bloom]

interpret that how you will

[sacred pilot]

Can't we just get Eggman to piss on the Moon.

[long bloom]

true

[split mortar]

The worlds becoming alive again…

[untold forge]

Id vote for this

[split mortar]

Idk i think that might anger the sun since they are yuri

[sinful adder]

that sounds like it could be a good thing if you kill all the gods and get the soul pieces back

[sacred pilot]

The yuri must be broken for the good of mankind.

[split mortar]

The essence of gods also has will, idk if a world influenced by 374628 torn apart minds is healthy

[sacred pilot]

If the sun is angered we'll piss on it too.

[sinful adder]

Get slime god to suck up every last bit of godly essence and then kill it in the core of the earth

[zenith geode]

wait why did the terraria soul have a piece for primordial light

[split mortar]

Sunlight hits the planet

[zenith geode]

ah

eh good enough

[split mortar]

It has a domain for nighttime so like

[sinful adder]

I cant be sure but I imagine they might fade away eventually

You can probably like

[eternal veldt]

Ehat does the terrarian have to deal with this time 😭

[sinful adder]

Purify it

[split mortar]

Whatever will the planet gets when they fade might also not be the most healthy

[split mortar]

Or in general just change the planet a lot

[eternal veldt]

Is purifying the hollow a good thing?

[sinful adder]

I mean. It will be all the auric stuff left minus life, sunlight, and rebirth

[eternal veldt]

Matter of fact imma delete the jungle too

[zenith geode]

trying to give the planet the godly soul of blood and it immediately starts going rabid

[split mortar]

A world soul without life sounds like itd kill a lot of things

[sinful adder]

What does purification powder do exactly... How does it do that

[sinful adder]

Life soul still exists, it's just separate now

It's like

Mitosis

[split mortar]

We do not fucking know
We know it does not destroy the essence since that goes against physics according to draedon

[timber glacier]

Wait if the dead gods cause parts of the world soul to return and since they almost all changed the domain like would that cause the changed domains to become part of the world soul instead of like the original domains

[eternal veldt]

Dryad dust 🙏

[zenith geode]

i'd imagine purification powder is like herbal treatments compared to the clentaminator being modern medicine

[split mortar]

Yeah so the life domain no longer part of the greater thing still

[eternal veldt]

Also will dryad be happy to see god of life again. I forgor her name

[sinful adder]

I imagine it like. Transforms the essence into constituent parts. Not destroyed but not kept the same either

Probably! Silva will be back

[split mortar]

Persmaps

[eternal veldt]

Not on the game 🙏

[zenith geode]

except we only recently discovered that it does that to evil biomes

[sacred pilot]

Silva will come back for Avengers Doomsday.

[zenith geode]

because they only started existing x years ago

[eternal veldt]

If she does i want her to sell easy life potions

[sinful adder]

Not in game

[eternal veldt]

Post moonlord life pots

RIP

[sinful adder]

It's going to be a few years

[split mortar]

Moon Sun Terraria polycule when

[zenith geode]

considering purification powder is a powder sold by a dryad i would imagine its herbal in nature

[sinful adder]

She's currently planty mush skeleton in the abyss

[long bloom]

now

[eternal veldt]

Who knows. We might be able to ethan winters her ass

[sinful adder]

What

[long bloom]

you can't

[zenith geode]

i also imagine it would have other properties, probably being used as a medicine in the past

[long bloom]

she's never appearing alive ingame

[timber glacier]

Purification powder is also weird since its also obtainable by shimmering vicious/vile powder so like how is that possible

[zenith geode]

shimmer is evil and fuckedup

[long bloom]

shimmer is just fucked up like that

[sinful adder]

I think it would be neat to collect all the godly essence in the world and like. Shimmer it

[eternal veldt]

I want my life potions to be sold other than the alchemist npcs 🙏

[long bloom]

legalize nuclear bombs

[sacred pilot]

Wouldn't it be kinda toxic cause like.

[long bloom]

💥

[sacred pilot]

Moon is evil.

[zenith geode]

"how/why does shimmer x?"
idk it just does that

[split mortar]

Shimmer lore

[split mortar]

Yeah

Toxic celestial yuri polycule

[sacred pilot]

Interesting.

[timber glacier]

I do wonder if theres a explanation why chlorophyte also has anti-infection biome properties

[eternal veldt]

Yk what screw it addons can add silva NPC i want my life pots seller to be canon

[long bloom]

the jungle can just do that

see: plantera

[eternal veldt]

Ewww jungle

[zenith geode]

silva creation defends from outside influence see plantera idk

[eternal veldt]

Almost as bad as dragons 🙏

[long bloom]

did silva create chlorophyte??

[sinful adder]

Shimmer is the secret anti entropy substance that goes against what the story is supposed to be

[zenith geode]

idk

just imagine itd be somewhat related

[split mortar]

Looks at the literal physics breaking god essence that makes energy out of nothing

[eternal veldt]

Could just be chaos liquid that has random properties

[zenith geode]

idea: purification powder contains crushed chlorophyte

[sinful adder]

Shimmer is like
Distilled essence of susie deltarune

[split mortar]

🔥

[timber glacier]

[zenith geode]

i'm sure people in the past wouldve been able to knap chlorophyte and crush the flakes into a powder

[sinful adder]

Allows for uncrating things into their ingredients even when it would be absurd. Throw a god into it and you'll get an auric soul back.

[timber glacier]

Chlorophyte is like really tough though

[sacred pilot]

Imagine coating chicken in Chlorophyte and deep frying it.

Mmmmmm.

[sinful adder]

I'm serious btw, it's the "fuck your story" substance

[split mortar]

Me turning the draconic metal into the god metal (auric to uelibloom)

[zenith geode]

people can knap granite and im sure theres even stronger knapping tools

[sinful adder]

And then the god metal into the moon metal, no?

[split mortar]

True

[sinful adder]

It reverses entropy

[zenith geode]

maybe mana charged rocks could knap chlorophyte really good

[sinful adder]

On objects

[split mortar]

Idk i think it explodes the zenith into a trillion separate pieces pretty well

[sacred pilot]

Now I'm super curious about the Moon and Sun in Calamity lore but ik it's gonna be like.

A really long time till we get lore about them.

[zenith geode]

@writers what do you think

[sinful adder]

That's reversing entropy. You can't recover the zenith's crafting components otherwise

[zenith geode]

actually couldnt they just knap chlorophyte with loose chunks of chlorophyte

[split mortar]

fair

[sinful adder]

It could unscramble an egg. It can un-smelt metals

[timber glacier]

Actually since its kind of plant matter dryads could probably manipulate it

[sinful adder]

I bet it could un-fuse a god and dragon

[long bloom]

yeah i was just gonna say that

[sinful adder]

And a dragon into a world soul shard

[long bloom]

it could probably seperate souls

[zenith geode]

what would shimmer do to a world soul shard though

[long bloom]

reforms the entire world soul

[eternal veldt]

What if the shimmer was used in the ritual 🙏

[split mortar]

It can also alter world essence into a more processed state and thats if the auric in auric metal is the alternative to the god essence in god essence materials

[timber glacier]

Wait it would be funny if you could like make slime god enter the shimmer and out would come what they were pre-ascension and the dragon of gluttony

[split mortar]

Hell it can turn hot rock (helstone) into god essence what the fuck

[sinful adder]

Dump the entire earth into shimmer to turn back time

[sacred pilot]

Splashing Yharim with Shimmer and seeing him look in horror as all the auric ore turns into Uelibloom.

[timber glacier]

Wait do you mean shimmer

[zenith geode]

yehsa

[eternal veldt]

Lmao why didn't just yharim dipped silva in shimmer then

[sinful adder]

Yes we've been talking about shimmer

[split mortar]

Yeah shimmer can make demonite/crimtane from hot rocks

[zenith geode]

shimmer was somehow unknown to the public before we found it idk

[split mortar]

Crimtane/demonite being god influenced materials

[timber glacier]

No it can’t I don’t think so

Can it?

[sinful adder]

Tbf there's probably a lot of that essence in hell

[zenith geode]

hellstone cant be shimmered iirc

yeah

cobalt -> aerialite

[split mortar]

Oh really???

Dang

[timber glacier]

Demonite and crimtane aren’t in the shimmer ore chain as well

[split mortar]

Thats still making dragon essence out of
Well we dunno ehats with the hm ores

[zenith geode]

i was about to ask about the early hardmode ores

[split mortar]

They existed before so uh ????

[sinful adder]

If you shimmer a person, they become an alternate version of these, but keep their mind intact

[zenith geode]

like if they were already there and the godly essence just weakened them into being minabel

oh

[eternal veldt]

What about chlorophite extractinator. I may have spslt it wrong.

[sacred pilot]

Except for us, we start noclipping.

[sinful adder]

Right

[eternal veldt]

Terrarian is rejected by it

[zenith geode]

chlorophyte extractinator is slightly less dramatic than shimmer i think

[timber glacier]

Also like the pirate kind of just dies and becomes a ghost

[zenith geode]

but like

[split mortar]

Doesnt that just pull more ores from the silt
Just a better extractinator able ti get more fine but more precious stuff idk

[sinful adder]

...shimmer is shadow crystal. It shows you alternate timelines. Maybe

[zenith geode]

you can swap alternates with it

[split mortar]

Ok what the fuck

[zenith geode]

eg crimtane -> demonite -> crimtane

[timber glacier]

Chlorophyte extractinator also can de-infect some items as well

[zenith geode]

that too

but i think that can be chocked up to chlorophyte being chlorophyte

[sinful adder]

Shimmer does crazy stuff depending on what you put in it

[zenith geode]

and having its jungle essence (not an actual thing) work its magic (probably not magic)