lore-discussion

[agile matrix]

for me at least. it doesnt look good.
either that or it looks good but it looks like dragon of storms

and i dont want two dragons of storm-esque dragons

[simple tangle]

you could make a serpentine boss that doesnt have segments :3

just long

[west plume]

ceiros

[spare pier]

Smaug is fucking awesome btw

Just thought I'd throw that out

[agile matrix]

smaug is Auraful yes

no diss towards Smaug

[graceful warren]

I mean secret of the shadow has an amazing worm boss

[raven brook]

Name me a worm boss in calamity that has a gimmick as unique as EoW segments each having individual healthbars that can be killed and wehn you do so the larger boss splits into smaller ones

[agile matrix]

my issue is that gluing lung dragon onto smaug is. hard to imagine

[spare pier]

Perforators

It's the same fucking gimmick so by definition it's as unique

[simple tangle]

storweaver.......................................(no)

[agile matrix]

i cant name more than three worm bosses in calamity

[graceful warren]

Secret of the Shadow bosses are just peak in general

[agile matrix]

SotS is peam yeah

[raven brook]

EoW was the first worm boss ever and it already did better than most modded worms

[agile matrix]

it just crashes for me after golem for

some reason

oh. actually

[raven brook]

it uses the fact its a segmented boss to its advantage

[agile matrix]

AEW

[timber glacier]

Maybe thanatos’ unique almost complete damage immunity except period openings

[raven brook]

by making it sgimmick rely on that

[spare pier]

It's not even a fucking worm boss

[agile matrix]

its a worm wdym

its got segments

[spare pier]

It only has one damageable segment

Everything else is for flair

[agile matrix]

whaaaat. wdym i thought it was a DoG situation

[raven brook]

this would be good if it wasn't actually a worm boss but was still a long guy

ive seen it done twice now i think

[spare pier]

No it's not even DoG

Only the head takes damage period

[simple tangle]

mhm

[agile matrix]

where the head took way way more damage and the body took basically 0

[graceful warren]

Remember when DoG used to be a recolored destroyer

[simple tangle]

no worm ai

[agile matrix]

..... is aew a kite

[simple tangle]

long boy

[raven brook]

used to be?

sosrry im evil im mean

[simple tangle]

sprite is justlong

[spare pier]

This would be considerable if Thanatos wasn't dogshit

[raven brook]

its not just ai because the ai isnt really my issue even

[spare pier]

Actually bankrupt boss

[raven brook]

its about visual uniqueness

[agile matrix]

man exos are so ass

and i love draedon platonically

[spare pier]

You tell me

[raven brook]

i hope the sprite and the whole boss isnt Built like a worm boss, yk

[agile matrix]

dudes awesome

[raven brook]

like again eah

Ceiros

[agile matrix]

but exos do jack fuckin shit

[sinful adder]

Imo every single piece of content relating to draedon just sucks ass

[agile matrix]

"designed to synergize" and they DONT!!! they dont do anything with each other!!!!!!!

[graceful warren]

The exo mechs look awesome but the fight is not that good

[sinful adder]

Except like, the first two labs and the decorative stuff

[raven brook]

Hey the arsenal weapon reworks r swag

[simple tangle]

hype moments and aura

[raven brook]

have you seen the tier 1 melee its aura

[agile matrix]

i dont want to sound weird. i dont. but the bosses need to use each others bodies for more attacks.

[timber glacier]

Exos could be really cool if the fight wasn’t just constantly move to the sides

[simple tangle]

😳

[agile matrix]

have Ares have some teslas and overcharge its buddies. have thanatos block off areas. have the hunters make cheapshots while undeployed.

[graceful warren]

I mean I agree. We need some damn power ranger shit with the exo

[agile matrix]

do SOMETHING. let them actually do their jobs rather than "yes. projectile. yes. more bobm. yes. Gauss Nuke Deploy. Go"

[spare pier]

There's a single way this could work I think you guys don't know what the fuck you're asking for

Unless you just want a megazord

[agile matrix]

i dont know what a megazord is

[spare pier]

Which, frankly, would be lame as fuck

[graceful warren]

Have those things fuse like the megazord

[raven brook]

theyre just asking for the bosses to fight together and synergize but in a oddly convoluted way

[raven brook]

.

[simple tangle]

yall actually want hekate for real?

[agile matrix]

lc i talk like a 1300s peasant meets 2026 tiktok slang

i speak like Gibberish.

[agile matrix]

hekate thats their name

no i like hekate but not like that

hekate is funny but not what i mean

[sinful adder]

It would be an improvement at least

[graceful warren]

Its very hard to make 3 bosses fight like one boss tho

[agile matrix]

each of the mechs kinda fill an archetype for each other. hunters wanna keep distance, ares is the middlegrounder, and thanatos really really wants to be close

[graceful warren]

Especially when all of them are extremely different than once another

[sinful adder]

then maybe they shouldn't be 3 bosses

[agile matrix]

despite this, hunters and ares act the same way and thanatos kinda just acts like a worse hunters

i would still like them to be in phases. that is a really cool component

[graceful warren]

Honestly they need to be more like the profane guardians

[timber glacier]

Honestly I really dislike how ares honestly doesn’t really have a key identity because the 4 weapons function differently bone like none of them really feel like they notably impact the fight

[agile matrix]

i just want them to do more (lack of better term) mario and luigi combo attack (?)

[simple tangle]

andromeda we need you

[spare pier]

What the fuck are you talking about

[agile matrix]

have ares throw flamethrowering apollo. have thanatos make a wall to which artemis blasts you from behind, to which you gotta damage specific segments to make thanatos move

[graceful warren]

I just want to see more draedon.

[agile matrix]

you are True.

i want more Draedon in Cool Sunglasses

[simple tangle]

draedon gets the most content out of any character in the mod

[graceful warren]

He is one of the most interesting characters in the mod

[graceful warren]

That's because he is good

[agile matrix]

yea and he needs more. Draedon Mod, developed by YharGPT

[simple tangle]

no its because he got an update to himself

[agile matrix]

he needs two more

[spare pier]

Blah blah rework Exos yeah guess what we want to do

[agile matrix]

source: Me :)

[simple tangle]

can we replace exos with mega antenizer

[graceful warren]

Honestly if any charater needs an update. It's Yharim

[agile matrix]

hrm. i cant say i agree but im unsure why i dont

[spare pier]

You guys are going about some really fucking roundabout ways of doing it though but if that's making you happy sure

[graceful warren]

Yharim is the big bad but like unless you read into the lore. You wouldn't even know

[spare pier]

Don't let the pissy little bitch mess your fun

[agile matrix]

i mean i dont really speak definitively. if exos are made Awesome then they will be so

im 99% sure yalls interp of Exos Awesome Edition is miles from mine

[simple tangle]

this design cooks actually

i know like

at least 10 girls who would wanna be this

[agile matrix]

i was abt to make a joke but i cannot

keywords: fabsol, visual design, pantaloons

actually was fabsol a fan of robots in that way. im not sure they were

[spare pier]

Just make the fucking joke already

If a moderator gets mad at you tell them I let you do it

[agile matrix]

if fabsol liked robots in that way, their pantaloons wouldve been ruined

[agile matrix]

points to this dont kill me

[simple tangle]

what

ok

[agile matrix]

flutters away like a butterfly

[spare pier]

What the fuck is a pantaloon

Is it a fancy word for boobs or some shit?

[timber glacier]

Isn’t pantaloons a silly word for pants

[agile matrix]

Yes

[simple tangle]

pantaloon sounds like doubloon

[agile matrix]

they're kinda like pirate pants

[spare pier]

Whatever I'm not gonna dig further

[simple tangle]

???

incomprehensible

[spare pier]

Good night, I'm tired

[simple tangle]

goodnight

[agile matrix]

yay!

[timber glacier]

Also am I insane or does it look like glados in the bottom corner sections

[simple tangle]

oh sure

[simple tangle]

i see it

[feral skiff]

this looks like something from an insane starbound mod

[graceful warren]

Something about this design is giving neon abyss vibes

[graceful warren]

Looks like a neon abyss boss to me

[long bloom]

madeline. pants is a shortened version of pantaloons. it's the original word.

[agile matrix]

pantaloons are also apparently a real thing and its pirate pants

[mighty zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/seabear-spongebob-close-gif-14749612325431954958

[agile matrix]

heart emoji

[sharp pulsar]

In the lore, calamitas dies against us???

[west plume]

no

[bitter cave]

We become her landlord

[wanton pendant]

Worse, she becomes a tenant.

[cosmic zenith]

Man
Christianity-based lore can be fucked up sometimes

[wanton pendant]

This can only mean one this.
Jesus is canon.

[west plume]

zeratros died for his own sins

[light linden]

hey stip?

does astral metal have any unique properties?

[cosmic zenith]

I'm not gonna answer that

[light linden]

reason I'm asking is because I'm curious on if it generates heat or not

[feral skiff]

if you eat a world soul do you become a super-god

[west plume]

i dont think u can do dat

[zenith geode]

if i had to imagine, you'd probably explode

[wanton pendant]

Hospital.

[west plume]

i imagine you just get mahito idle transfigured and it's wraps

[wanton pendant]

I don't know who that is.

[west plume]

not a ball knower

[wanton pendant]

So probably like that four armed skeleton from Ninjago.

[west plume]

https://youtu.be/lDbOx6pX3Y0

[simple tangle]

Excuse me

[cosmic zenith]

?

[simple tangle]

Am I iliterate 😭 i can't pick up on the christianity

[wanton pendant]

So Christianity is a religion in real life.

It's pretty big.

[west plume]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

[simple tangle]

Wait i thought y were saying

Like

Old lore Calamity was based on christianity

I might be stupid

[wanton pendant]

Dude you can't start watching Christianity at the Crusades you need to see the earlier arcs for context.

[west plume]

that's true

did not mean to encourage arc skipping

[cosmic zenith]

No lmao

[wanton pendant]

Old Lore Calamity was based on.

Dark Souls?

Probably?

I don't know I never beat Kingdom Hearts.

[simple tangle]

Based on whatever Fabsol was into at any given moment?

[robust osprey]

old lore was based on hype moments and aura

[noble falcon]

Don’t you mean earlier arks

[crystal crane]

DID LIKE

DRAEDON ALLWAYS KNEW THAT WE WOULD COME TO GET HIS ASS?

[random mulch]

he probably knew from the moment you started breaking and finding his stuff

he didn't just know, he was anticipating it, he wanted you to complete the codebreaker so he could perform his next experiment

[raw nest]

Why can’t we ask Draedon to give our auric armor exo tech just like he did to Yharim?

[cosmic zenith]

Why would he do that? Besides, there will be a pure Exo tech armor in the future

[wanton pendant]

He literally guides you to do it.

[leaden bridge]

calamity lore

i cant do this anymore

[west plume]

why would he do that

[wanton pendant]

This is a haiku.

[leaden bridge]

i dont think it is?

i dont know

[wanton pendant]

Too bad.

It's a haiku now.

[leaden bridge]

aura reasons

[wanton pendant]

Take this poetry award.

[leaden bridge]

its true he wouldnt do that

i mean it wouldnt even work the same would it

[wanton pendant]

I don't see why it wouldn't, but it would weaken the appeal of testing his creation if it was another of his creations it was up against.

[leaden bridge]

isnt our auric different from yharims original auric

so like whats the point

just kill yharim with shadowspec then steal his its better

and youre going to be like how the fuck does that work youre not attuned

the answer is, obviously, to do it anyways

the terrarian can manipulate his molecules to be considered not living matter through training and that makes it so rejection doesnt apply

[west plume]

while waiting for yharon to respawn you need to spend 10 years scrolling instagram reels. if you did it right you should instantly attune with yharon as soon as he hatches

[leaden bridge]

its like the piss tetrahedron

[raw nest]

To give us a better chance against Yharim? Idk, same reason he gave us his forge

[noble falcon]

If you like a reel on the same frame he hatches from the egg, you will perform a perfect parry and replace Yharim as his bestie

[west plume]

yharim is a dying old man wearing half century old antiquated ass draetech

[raw nest]

Like you can ask the same question on why he did it to Yharim’s auric armor

[west plume]

... yharim was draedon's business partner? draedon did that in exchange for favors?

[raw nest]

But he did it after he already left Yharim’s army though

[west plume]

he did?

[mighty zenith]

pretty sure draedon mentions that was the last time he saw yharim

meaning it happened after the plaguebringer incident

though it was less draedon leaving and more yharim kicking him out

[raw nest]

bro aren’t you a dev

[eager bluff]

draedon just did it

we dont know why

but it was voluntary

[west plume]

i think this is something to solve if it is the intended timeline; yharim would have had to let draedon modify the existing auric armor voluntarily and it makes no sense that draedon would know the partnership was servered at the time

since draedon would get no value out of that and yharim would have no reason to trust that the technology would be in any way beneficial or wouldn't allow draedon to get leverage over him

[leaden bridge]

draedon straight up implies its only been a couple months actually

[cosmic zenith]

*It's not half a century old

[west plume]

Why

This is a plot hole

[eager bluff]

not really

[leaden bridge]

is it

whats the plot hole

[cosmic zenith]

How is this a plot hole?

[eager bluff]

it being a plot hole would mean there isnt a reason for draedon to do it

but there is and that reason is more experience working with auric

[leaden bridge]

gets to have fun award

[west plume]

for what purpose

what scientific enrichment comes out of that

[eager bluff]

...knowing better how auric works as a material?

[leaden bridge]

well he does not get to touch auric much. being given any opportunity to would be valuable if just to more closely inspect the material

[west plume]

there is not a reason for draedon to do it and not really a reason for yharim to accept it. draedon gets to mess with something willful that he and no other test subject will ever be able to touch unless he kills yharon and yharim also doesn't know if draedon post-partnership is going to be cooperate or put in the upgrades without any serious backdoor or downsides

[eager bluff]

yes thats why its valuable the lack of ability to work with it is why working with it is so valuable

[west plume]

i think we have a silly issue with draedon being a motivationless omni-engineer who does anything for the sake of advancement even if they are outwardly dumb waste of times like getting to touch auric metal for the span of maybe a few hours before never being able to interact with it in the rest of his robot lifetime

and the metal doesn't even do anything special when you're Allowed to interact with it

[eager bluff]

it does, the reason it doesnt when we use it is because we made it not do that so it doesnt kill us

[west plume]

the technology inside the auric armor also can't be serviced by anyone but draedon so yharim's armor literally becomes less functional if draedon stops cooperating it's like Silly

[west plume]

yharon also willfully committed suicide upon you which is the only way you were going to be able to get his soul short of breaking into the aerie

[leaden bridge]

yharon is stupid award

[wanton pendant]

I think it was just a test of the military application of Exo Tech.

[west plume]

why for yharim (who has nothing particularly to gain and everything to lose, he shouldn't have taken the offer in the first place) instead of one of the following:

• A drone that he can use and modify directly with any arbitrary alloy or material (The Exo Mechs)
• A paramilitary organization
• A god and a material they uniquely can produce
• The Devourer of Gods (no particular allegiance to yharim aside from a working relationship, desires power, does not have anything personally against draedon)
• Literally anyone he could trust with his proprietary technology

All of these options are things he can actually monitor and adjust and test consistently with

[wanton pendant]

Yharim is the strongest and building huge mechs from scratch takes time.

And with Yharim literally coming to him it doesn't seem like a bad opportunity to see what could be done with the new technology.

[west plume]

Like it stops being reasonable as soon as you get to the idea of how draedon would do something like extract data from yharim's armor to improve it, since this is post-relationship severing. What if yharim just doesn't agree to have his armor touched again. There's nothing gained there

[wanton pendant]

And I doubt a god would want to work for Draedon after he armed a genocide against them.

[cosmic zenith]

Keep in mind, Yharim requested this modification.

There is no reason for Draedon to do it

I'd say experimenting with ways to overcome the attunement barrier to one of the most powerful materials in Terraria is an useful experiment. Not to mention testing potential synergies between the two materials.

There's no reason for Yharim to accept it.

Yeah, there is...? He had almost been assassinated recently. He could use all the armor he could get, Draedon was the best engineer he knew and he had no reason to believe Draedon would sabotage his technology. It would also be really weird for Yharim, a prideful and unmatched warrior, to instead hand these updgrades to his army and not himself.

[pulsar ocean]

why doesn’t yharon just come back faster is he stupid

[wanton pendant]

He is stupid.

[west plume]

I'd say experimenting with ways to overcome the attunement barrier to one of the most powerful materials in Terraria to be an useful experiment. Not to mention testing potential synergies between the two materials.
you cannot without breaking the rules of the setting or possessing a part of an auric dragon's soul. the auric dragon would simply not allow himself to be captured by draedon in this case, and there was nothing draedon could do about it. draedon knows this as he knows the rules of how auric armor functions as someone who has had to interact with it

Yeah, there is...? He had recently almost been assassinated. He could use all the armor he could get
draedon fundamentally cannot make auric metal stronger and the result of the exo experiment isn't a new alloy, it's technology integration so that yharim becomes a more effective fighter

[leaden bridge]

i mean he cant he is stupid but thats unrelated

[west plume]

Draedon was the best engineer he knew and he had no reason to believe Draedon would sabotage his technology.
Yharim suddenly dropped the partnership ages ago and Draedon is now a completely free agent who no longer depends on Yharim for much of anything

There is no reason to believe that Draedon will act in completely good faith here

It would also be really weird for Yharim, a prideful and unmatched warrior, to instead hand these updgrades to his army and not himself.
His army are the people who need the upgrades. They aren't wearing racist armor that obliterates you if you are unworthy and touch it

[wanton pendant]

Draedon doesn't seem to be someone who would hold a grudge.

[cosmic zenith]

He can clearly bypass Auric's limits, though with some difficulty

A component of the Codebreaker relies on Auric, and the last tier of Arsenal weaponry used to

[wanton pendant]

And didn't Yharim right after this basically abandon the army anyway?

[cosmic zenith]

Never said it was a new alloy. Making him a more effective fighter is indirectly contributing to his safety

[young socket]

the racist armour wasnt good enough

[eager bluff]

and yharim is the one of those yharim actually cares about and not dying is pretty high on his priority list

[west plume]

He can clearly bypass Auric's limits, though with some difficulty
the codebreaker is completely inorganic and auric metal isn't shown to arbitrarily reject constructs or things without will, so there's no reason to believe that it would be bypassing any inherent limit with auric rather than just utilizing an (incredibly dangerous) material. we have done this in real life with plenty of things that will sign your death if you are in contact them for like, seconds, but can be utilized for scientific or technological processes

Never said it was a new alloy. Making him a more effective fighter is indirectly contributing to his safety
yharim's armor doesn't need to be modified to do this and it would have been more prescient to just make it a biomod so that it could be Maintained. by like any engineer

[cosmic zenith]

His army, which he essentially abandoned and hasn't told his next goal?

[pulsar ocean]

yharon’s power is lowkey useless cuz like you die and in the 20 years you’re gonna take to rebirth your loved ones are probably dead maybe
Like I feel like yharon is only top 2 cuz the rest of the dragons were oblivious bums
Like if the dragon of flame actually spent time training he’d easily be above yharon

[wanton pendant]

I mean, yeah.

[eager bluff]

if any of the dragons spent time training theyd be a lot more effective

[wanton pendant]

Dragons didn't discover gym until Yharim enlightened Yharon with a trip to Azafure, the gym capital of the world.

[west plume]

there's no reason to believe that his army were willfully abandoned and that he had no intention to return after accomplishing his goal. it would have been better, overall, for the exo mods to have been conducted on high ranking soldiers

[eager bluff]

but they didnt because until john kill them all 1999 showed up there wasnt anything that could actually threaten them

[west plume]

i think that yharim's depression is a retroactive psychological phenomena that does not reflect his intention at the start of the escapade

[wanton pendant]

Would Draedon even be able to produce quantities of Exo Tech to outfit an army in a timely manner?

[west plume]

and it shouldn't be treated as such

[cosmic zenith]

Which are still presently unable to be by his side

The whole point is to make him, as a combatant, stronger

[west plume]

draedon also isn't volume limited and the improvements would have been substantially higher with a larger volume of combat capable test subjects which draedon did not have access to at the time

[wanton pendant]

No subject would be as combat capable as Yharim.

[west plume]

if yharim really wanted to become a Stronger Warrior he would have let draedon modify his men and had them fight something so that the data could be used to improve the then-experimental technology

it's also unreasonable to assume that draedon wouldn't have just backdoored the technology, again. yharim hasn't been able to Use it or see it in action before and draedon has plenty of reasons to seek leverage over the tyrant for much more prescient scientific pursuits

[wanton pendant]

I mean, I assume Draedon has his gear loaded with tracking and analytics stuff.

[cosmic zenith]

Any scientist working with Exo tech would need or acquire information about its workings - something Draedon only provides the player with after being proven the player is notably prodigious

[wanton pendant]

Wouldn't be surprised if it was there even before the upgrade.

[west plume]

exo tech is esoterica and there's no reason to believe that any scientist would have been able to figure it out in the year or so trial it was planned to have, since scientists are again not omni-engineers. yharim's research and development department hasn't been shown to be able to meaningfully reverse engineer draedon's technology before, as well, and yharim's authority could have been used to prevent any given engineer from closely inspecting a high ranking officer's armor

[cosmic zenith]

Therefore, it is something only Draedon can do
At least we agree on that

[west plume]

yharim also obviously can't be tracked everywhere; the aerie just Isn't Perceptable from the outside and draedon doesn't have quantum telemetry

[cosmic zenith]

This begs the question: if Draedon outright prefers obedient machines over human will, why didn't he make robots out of this Exo technology?

[wanton pendant]

And he did do that.

But that takes time. Upgrading armour probably takes a whole lot less.

[west plume]

the goal of exo tech isnt obedience but ultimate combat prowess. developing a machine capable of surpassing significant goals at the time period would have required extensive r&d that draedon could not pour into it in time; the exo mechs are the technology being integrated into machines after the research and development time was able to be allocated

[cosmic zenith]

Yharim could not have received these updgrades while sulking in the Aerie; he was still in the overworld and Draedon should've been able to track his performance

[west plume]

biomods and armor mods are easier and responsibe

[leaden bridge]

is the aerie not perceptible from the outside or is draedon just not surveying the place it is physically in

[west plume]

yes, but yharim was able to just Leave and his armor can't even be queried for information anymore

[cosmic zenith]

Former

[wanton pendant]

Aerie has a VPN.

[leaden bridge]

oh thats lame i wanted it to be in the sun for aura purposes

[west plume]

i believe that draedon knew about this possibility before and did not acknowledge the fact that it may become impossible quickly to receive any testable information

[cosmic zenith]

Because the Aerie itself isn't trackable

[wanton pendant]

Draedon likely didn't know that Yharim intended to go to the Aerie and never leave.

[cosmic zenith]

True
Though Draedon would still consider it, most likely

[west plume]

yes. the aerie is where yharim disappears to often and where yharim went. the decision as an individual to take an experimental armor upgrade is a sign that yharim may be acting in individual interest and potentially seeking to disappear

the lack of scale would be an easy tell that yharim had no intention of actually assisting draedon with the technology and that he had no further intention of associating with his government's military research and development for the Most Part

which is why draedon assisting with this for the chance to touch some auric armor for a few hours is silly

[cosmic zenith]

It's not really established that Yharim disappears "often" to the Aerie
Though then again, what better opportunity would Draedon have?

[wanton pendant]

Considering that Yharim went to the trouble of getting an armour upgrade, and to Draedon's knowledge nobody other than himself and Yharon have ever been there in years, it is reasonable to assume Draedon would believe that Yharim would fight something in an observable area.

[west plume]

literally any paramilitary in the entire continent would have allowed draedon to get important actionable information without the interference and cooperation of yharim or his government

[cosmic zenith]

Yharim is his affiliation to the army, and he was not particularly interested in providing others with that technology, at least for the moment

[west plume]

most people Can't disappear

most people also can't choose not to cooperate with draedon

[cosmic zenith]

If this was actually done, do you think it would be as much of a spotlight as Yharim receiving such upgrades?

[west plume]

this is a magic world and there a million reasons why draedon would stop being able to get long distance signals and require direct inspection

[pulsar ocean]

Where did they find auric ore for the armor if yharon wasn’t dead

[cosmic zenith]

More accurately, what does Draedon have to lose by fitting Yharim with these upgrades?

[wanton pendant]

Is there many places on the planet where Draedon wouldn't be capable of direct inspection?

[west plume]

time, secrets, time that could be spent focusing on any other organic or artificial exo alteration

[wanton pendant]

He died before and got better, clearly.

[west plume]

yharim does possess engineers who with enough time could extract the exo tech and reverse engineer it, which is objectively bad for draedon

[raw nest]

Is auric ore directly tied to yharon? Is it not to just auric dragons in general?

[wanton pendant]

What are the drawbacks to others knowing about Exo Tech?

[cosmic zenith]

Technology evolves parallel to its context, ways to jam his signal would be met with more ways for his signal to dodge them

[west plume]

everything that uses the exo tech platform, such as the exo mechs, would become inherently less secure and easier to sabotage or replicate

[west plume]

draedon doesn't know what would stop his telemetry and therefore cannot prepare for that. if something does prevent remote telemetry then he can't exactly send yharim's armor an os update to fix it

[violet sparrow]

are you guys agreeing or disagreeing with eachother rn

[west plume]

yharim regularly interacts with people who would be able to isolate him or jam the signal; xeroc especially has control of Light and would have been able to jam radio communication for example

[violet sparrow]

i cant tell

[cosmic zenith]

Disagreeing

[wanton pendant]

All out warfare. Battle lines are being drawn. Skyrim will be... Wait, no, nevermind.

[violet sparrow]

hii

i think it's been a bit

[wanton pendant]

Draedon has no idea Xeroc exists, to be fair.

[cosmic zenith]

As mentioned, his technology has built-in trackers with which he would be able to monitor its activity; furthermore, it is established that his rate of development would outpace attempts to reverse-engineer his tech

[cosmic zenith]

Yharim doesn't regularly interact with Xeroc and there aren't too many beings that would do that

[west plume]

As mentioned, his technology has built-in trackers with which he would be able to monitor its activity;
the telemetry needs to Function for him to get information from the trackers. he is not magic and he does not have quantum information transfer, any suitable engineer could figure out how to isolate yharim and then simply disable the telemetry

it is established that his rate of development would outpace attempts to reverse-engineer his tech
this is kind of baseless i think and not how real technology works; either you think there is a basis for exo tech and it can become insecure if exposed or you think that exo is a brand title

[west plume]

this is something people do with Real technology which does that all the time and is why it's sort of ineffective, and why in most r&d physical recovery is desirable, ex. for aeronautics

the technology can malfunction, be damaged or it can stop being able to communicate with you spontaneously. the only way to ensure you know what happened is to be able to inspect it physically

the easiest way to prevent draedon from spying in this case would just be putting yharim inside a lead box to prevent any RF communication unless he has Magical telemetry, so this is easily a predictably bad decision

[wanton pendant]

I think there would be consequences to that.

[cosmic zenith]

I agree that it can become insecure if exposed, I'm simply stating that the breach in security simply does not pose a significant threat

[west plume]

while it doesn't pose a significant threat to draedon it means that draedon's technology platform can easily be stolen and then he can no longer gain any meaningful information from it

and then all of his future exo tech is insecure and more difficult to fortify against an attacker

[cosmic zenith]

That is arguably a threat

Which I still think can be dealt with before it can settle itself

[west plume]

while it can be dealt with it would require significant effort on draedon's part since he can't magic up a new basis for which his technology operates and communicates

it is already shown that he takes time to create things despite being a computer

the time period in which a well-funded team of engineers could reverse engineer exo tech and then utilize it or start interfering with draedon's work is shorter than the time period in which he could figure out that the technology was compromised and then make Not Exotech

[cosmic zenith]

Which, at least so far, has been consistently done as a foundation for his technological development

He would make it Not Exotech, arguably, by default

[west plume]

that's not how hardware or software werk

there is no reason to iterate if he starts anew every time

[cosmic zenith]

How has it been in the evolution of Draedon's technology?

[west plume]

it would be reasonable for draedon to accept this risk if he was still in an active partnership with yharim, but yharim himself had broken the contract and proven himself untrustworthy and unstable

the pursuit of power would naturally lead to yharim just having his engineers comb over exotech and apply it without the draedon spying chip to all of their army and then keep stealing all future exotech now that it's insecure

[cosmic zenith]

But Yharim's main goal isn't the pursuit of power and he's running out of lifetime

[west plume]

draedon's technology, for the most part, is also iterative and based on familiar platforms or templates that have been improved but are not entirely distinct from eachother as his goal is efficiency

[west plume]

the purpose of the integration of the exo tech was to make yharim a stronger warrior. whatever his goal was could possibly have been better achieved with numbers

since draedon's improvement had nothing to do with improving the auric metal itself

[cosmic zenith]

I never denied the possibility of Draedon experimenting with paramilitary groups

However, it would not have been applied to Yharim's army

[west plume]

yharim's goal, i mean. draedon doesn't know if the thing yharim was trying to get stronger for was an entirely individual pursuit and he can only speculate

draedon also isn't really shown to give away research technology prior and only gives it to you because you have proved exotech to be ultimately inefficient and undesirable to iterate upon alone

[cosmic zenith]

His Crusade is an ultimately egocentric pursuit

[violet sparrow]

i feel like this should go behind closed doors like dev just maybe

[west plume]

is it being disruptive

apologies

[cosmic zenith]

If it's being disruptive, sure, but I don't see any reason to discuss it "behind closed doors" otherwise

[violet sparrow]

not disruptive

not really anyway

but it's the kinda thing that gets in the way of your storytelling to have out in the open air lol

[west plume]

i was under the impression that it was a discussion over an already settled ingame event rather than new information

did i leak something?

[leaden bridge]

idk "people can very much recreate draedon tech" is not precisely a publicly understood thing, at least not for me. i knew there were plans to have more Tech People eventually introduced but not that degree. i mean this conversation doesnt reveal anything important but it is very strange (to me at least) because a lot of the ideas being presented do not mesh like at all with what is currently known publicly i think

[cosmic zenith]

Afaik no

[wanton pendant]

We do know Draedon has competition. Sure, nobody on par but other great science guys exist.

[west plume]

i don't think draedon's technology is magical and any intelligent researcher can study it and recreate it just as draedon can other things, which i thought was a given since he is the tech guy

technology becomes significantly easier to reverse engineer after it has already been developed if you are able to disassemble it

the reason draedon doesn't send robots out everywhere is because there is a genuine and real risk that his machines and software can just be reverse engineered and then he loses a significant edge

[wanton pendant]

That's why they destroyed the computer Alan Turing built.

[west plume]

draedon's technology is esoterica when it is made and before it is figured out

[leaden bridge]

idk i had it understood his special fancy smancy unique brain and 600 years worth of uninterrupted memories, development and yharim's resources made him very much unattainable advanced. i guess the resources part doesn't matter beacause yharim's other people would also have those, i didn't know he had any others. and it would be very much possible to reverse engineer his work at that point, so i guess you would be right

[west plume]

i do not think yharim would be super successful without a well oiled military machine and part of that is an r&d budget for the people not covered in auric armor

i thought that was implied through the arsenal shtuff

[wanton pendant]

I'm sure there are fantasy stories with the concept of 'sent advanced technology back in time and it got recreated really fast'.

[violet sparrow]

thats the premise of my new young adult novel

[wanton pendant]

Young Adult: Old Adult.

[cosmic zenith]

I think your perspective is very realistic
Which has its pros and cons
I'm glad you questioned this plotpoint, because it helps us test our logic and reveal plotholes

[leaden bridge]

it was my impression draedon basically did that all by himself, obviously having hired employees but no one else was precisely doing the engineering

[cosmic zenith]

I personally am not a strong writer in the technology or the military management aspect

[cosmic zenith]

Draedon did have many subordinate and assisting scientists, though he was also unmatched by a good margin

[west plume]

i don't think the organization was like that because it becomes highly fallible as only humans are able to test human ergonomics and therefore you need human engineers who are able to fit draetech to being useful for the common soldier and wieldable for the common soldier. without ergonomics or human engineering as a consideration you get stupid shit like the shpc

[cosmic zenith]

There would be people who could reverse-engineer his tech, albeit with difficulty, depending on what it is

[west plume]

most of draedon's solo technology is Pretty Dumb when you think of it from the perspective of how actually useful it is with the exception of the exo mechs and maybe burrowers. he isn't Infallible exactly. he's just really good at pushing the frontier

[leaden bridge]

im mad about the shpc tooltip btw thats the Super Heated Plasma Cannon for you. #smh#smh (its okay

[cosmic zenith]

Tbf, making technology suitable and understandable to the average soldier is science in of itself, and would be something relevant to Draedon
Though I entirely agree he would have had help

[west plume]

draedon lives in a world where pacticality isn't a primary, secondary or even tertiary concern

he just pushes the frontier

he fundamentally isn't mortal, he doesn't have any bodily restriction, any issue he runs into he can spend abundant time retrofitting his tools to fix precisely and exactly

i think it's important to think of him from this perspective

[cosmic zenith]

I think that's a good perspective

[west plume]

when an object is too heavy to carry and too complex to roll, the average person would think to make a cart or to hoist it using multiple men. draedon simply builds and installs a stronger back

for the average person building a stronger back would be complete and total lunacy. the resources you'd need to do such are absurd and no one really has the time for that, it has to make a profit if you are resource-bound, there are mortal concerns for the stronger back failing, there isn't an existing basis for it so you have to develop it from scratch. for draedon, none of these things are issues

[cosmic zenith]

In this game/setting, unfortunately a handful of people might consider it

[wanton pendant]

Yharim got a body of muscles he's going to use the body of muscles.

[agile matrix]

considering it and doing it are two diff things

[graceful warren]

Personally Draedon does alot of what he doe for the fun of the game. He loves inventing things and discovering new things. Ultimate his end goal is his own curiosity. He cares little about the crusade. More the fact it gives him more material to invent

[west plume]

and easy resources

he can't really stuff some random villagers' souls into a machine without attracting attention

but if he assists with the war effort he can do that and much more horrible shit with no consequence

[graceful warren]

Yep pretty much and once he got bored of the war effort. He just left and did his own thing. Aka the exos

[agile matrix]

eeeeh

this part i am partially iffy abt

dude COULD get some but at what point does some become noticable

how many grains of sand can i remove before you notice

and at that point, what would they remember as the body-snatcher

[west plume]

they would just remember that there is a body snatcher and become harder to snatch

[agile matrix]

priming yourself for the body snatcher does leave you open to the body stealer who attacks in an entirely different manner

my point is that if draedon wanted to do so, itd be possible yet more difficult to get some souls

[west plume]

then eventually the lord of the people draedon stole starts putting serious money into finding and stopping the body snatcher and then they identify the root cause and become substantially more paranoid toward everything

[agile matrix]

so the alliance is still good, just not for the lack of options

[west plume]

he can only do it for so long

I Guess

the alliance makes it so no suspicions are raised and no one attempts to get in his way and makes it substantially more difficult to keep the operation and continual testing going

otherwise it might get to the point where random people start tearing up any technology they find and then it becomes a very serious issue

[agile matrix]

draedon putting soul collectors and bombs in his creations: yeeeess. goood.

[trim edge]

did draedon know about polterghast

[west plume]

at that point ur just starting a war against humanity which isn't very wise

[agile matrix]

he's draedon he can do it

he's like. awesome

™

[west plume]

draedon's modus operandi isn't instilling a permanent fear into every man woman and child of being mysteriously taken in the night or having your soul dragged out and your drained corpse left with only a skittering robot as evidence of the murder

that's the kind of trouble that lasts hundreds of years and becomes political later

he'd only get maybe a few hundred or thousand regular souls from that compared to the billions of free and fresh dead bodies of various specializations that the crusade produced

which is why i feel he kept to himself until recently sorta

[raven brook]

Draedon would rather abduct lone individuals that he can get away with without nobody really noticing if he really needs a live subject or souls for a project but thats probably pretty inefficient and kinda risky

[west plume]

it's a slow process and also draedon needs to study every subject before abducting them

[long bloom]

sentenced to 500 years of backreading

[long bloom]

anyway, from what i understand, yharim's goal post assassination attempt was to get as strong as possible before he dies to maybe defeat xeroc
so why would he waste resources upgrading the military he's abandoning

[west plume]

draedon doesn't know that his goal is suicide

suddenly abandoning an entire empire for a suicide mission is absurd and unprecedented

[long bloom]

yharim did tell him that he and yharon were fucking off to the aerie

[west plume]

... forever?

[long bloom]

idk

[west plume]

theres also no reason to assume that he and yharon would be in bumfuck nowhere dragonville until they both died

[long bloom]

perhaps

[west plume]

its also unprecedented

[rain osprey]

oh hi carny nice to see you

fuck wrong channel

[unborn wind]

GIRL

[west plume]

hi

[unborn wind]

dotn look through my old messages idk if there's bad lore takes in there or not

[trim edge]

do dragons die of old age

[long bloom]

unclear

[wanton pendant]

I mean, it is pretty clear.
If they never died naturally Yharon would have been near useless to a race of no competition magic dragons.

[trim edge]

yharon was just a dickhead who threatened to forcefully rebirth the other dragons into new shitty bodies

[west plume]

this is like those tiktoks where people say the exact opposite of what a character does

[wanton pendant]

Yharon FORCED dragons to become TRANS!

[trim edge]

yharim was a kind hearted old man who taught an orphan to cook seafood

[west plume]

Yharon was an Evil dragon that terrorized the rest of the auric dragons by grabbing ahold of them while they were alive and giving them worse bodies. All of the auric dragons hated him and didn't agree with what he did but he did it anyway

Yharim, a kind man, saw yharon and decided to reform him to become a better person

[fathom locust]

I read that in the exact ai voice they use and heard that one piano and violin background track they use

[wanton pendant]

Calamitas was a cruel and wicked child who murdered her family and country in cold blood. Even the benevolent Brimstone Elemental couldn't stop her. The kindhearted hero, Yharim, took pity on her and tried to raise her to be a hero, but the evil wizard Permafrost coerced her to do evil, and eventually she destroyed another city. Yharim tried to give her one last chance, but she betrayed him again.

[trim edge]

Yharim was a kind old man who loved to help people. One day, an orphan girl named Calamitas went to his court crying because she couldn't cook as well as the Brimstone Elemental. Yharim immediately assigned his head chef Permafrost to teach Calamitas the culinary arts. When she was ready, Yharim gave Calamitas a massive supply of seafood for her to make a delicious soup with. Despite this, Calamitas left Yharim without even thanking him, but Yharim was happy since he only wanted to help people.

[rain osprey]

Yharim, master chef who travelled with his dear companion: a self cooking chicken.

[wanton pendant]

Draedon was an old inventor who made prosthetics for injured soldiers. One day, while he was unveiling a project to improve the strength of endangered bee populations, he was sabotaged and his work lost. Undeterred, he took in a daughter, but cruelly she was taken from him. He now spends his time building toys for people to play with.

Agnus Immolatus was the bloodthirsty God of Sacrifices, a power he stole from the kind old Dragon of Death. The Dragon of Death stayed away from everyone, not wanting to accidentally kill people, but the cruel Agnus killed him in cold blood. Now with his deadly power unleashed, he drives innocent people mad and drinks people's blood. Eventually, the great hero, Yharim, put a stop to him. He killed Agnus and spared the poor men and women he forced to be cultists. However, he played a cruel trick. Using the bodies of his victims, he came back from the dead as the God of Blood and went on a rampage. Luckily, Yharim returned and defeated him again.

[split mortar]

Nah im just not gonna backread what did i miss

[long bloom]

stip and syrup debating why draedon would upgrade yharim's armor after he was fired

[split mortar]

Because yharims hot

[long bloom]

[plucky juniper]

TEH STINKY WAS AN UGLY MOTHERFUCKER WHO SHOWED UP ONE DAY, AND STANK SO BADLY THAT EVERYONE TURNED THEIR ATTENTION TOWARDS SLAYING HIM. UNFORTUNATELY FOR EVERYONE ELSE, TEH STINKY HAD HIS PERSONAL CHAMPION, omega amidias, the plaything of anticipation, GUARDING HIM AGAINST ALL THREATS AND CRITICISM.

[wanton pendant]

Xeroc was a malevolent tyrant who used their serpent tongue to worm their way into the service of the dragon king, Zeratros. When a great peril struck and the king was struck down, the two-faced false priest made no move to assist the ailing lord, but instead twisted a knife into their heart and stole their power for himself. Greedily, he refused to finish of the grave threat, forcing the dragons to have to seal it with what little power they had, and instead he decides to weaken the heat of the sun, devastating the ecosystem and causing numerous invasive species to emerge. He then proceeds to squander his power for personal enjoyment, utterly abandoning the responsibilties of having such great power that the former great king embodied.

[raven brook]

cheese

[pure patrol]

YOUR LIBERAL "NEWS" MEDIA WON'T TELL THE COLD HARD #FACTS ABOUT #YHARIM. STAY TUNED FOR THE TRUTH !!!!!!! #DraedonNewsNetwork #StopTheLies #CrookedCalamitas

[abstract hedge]

Draedon would never do such a thing

This would be the Yharon News Network or something, Draedon doesn't gaf.

[noble falcon]

“Welcome back to another episode of the God-Cast, I’m your host Yharon here with my co-host Yharim. Today’s subject; Can dirt blocks think?”

[untold forge]

😭 omg I love this bit so much

[sinful adder]

question for lore writers: were there any rebel groups in the heartlands that didn't get absolutely crushed, or managed to stay in hiding?

[cosmic zenith]

Of course

I will not elaborate

[sinful adder]

cool

I imagine it would be hard to search the entirety of the caves on the continent, if the ones in the play area are anything to go by

[long bloom]

braelor and statis

[sinful adder]

well, yeah

but I'm curious about others

since ilmeris was recently destroyed

I suppose Ilmeris would have been quite the stronghold throughout the war, up until recently

[heavy zenith]

Technically demons, if you count their random attacks on Azafure as "rebellion"

But they havent been unified in awhile so its up to you

[wanton pendant]

I don't think attacking a country counts as rebellion. It counts as invasion.

[sinful adder]

It would if that were the intent

[sterile robin]

whats the lore behind wulfrum enemies

[fathom locust]

cheap and easy to produce robots that like just were a nuiscane for yharims forces or something

[sterile robin]

created by draedon?

[fathom locust]

no

random rebellion group

[split mortar]

Draedon sided with yharim why would he make things to annoy his army

[sterile robin]

didnt yharim tell draedon to fuck off after he made the plaguebringer goliath

[west plume]

well. why would draedon create ineffective things to annoy his army

[sterile robin]

idk

[pulsar ocean]

it’s funny

[hollow pivot]

Why would Draedon go from making machines capable of beating Yharon to making machines that struggle to slime slime?

[split mortar]

And the wulfrum are how much weaker then the plague? Makes no sense for draedon to make something so weak if the goal is to hurt yharims army

[noble falcon]

Taking out a marshmallow stick during the Providence fight should turn it into a cooked marshmallow
That would be really funny

[hollow pivot]

#suggestions-posting

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dRB4W_bVX7qj_wAwi-w2E6MTitvIpg0xafeAvKDsLyU/
Just read through the rules before posting.

[sterile robin]

yeah but its funny

inexpensive to make, plus you can ragebait your old ally?

i would

[split mortar]

Not really any science to gain so draedon would not

[eternal veldt]

I can see provi doing this but draedon is only driven purely by getting more knowledge

[eternal veldt]

Were the wulfrum even a threat?

I feel like they are more like a swarm machines?

Like quantity and versatility over quality

[sinful adder]

A lore writer told me that the Wulfrum drones were made by rebels thinking they might be slowing down yharim's army (but they weren't actually helping at all)

I wonder what the rebels who were actually good at robotics were like

[west plume]

probably triangulated and brutally slain

i dont really like current wulfrum lore at all but theres not much i can do about it as a non-lorewriter and with the fact that the concept is kinda too inherently game-y; their existence totally shits all over engineering efforts not related to draedon and their existence as objects made of Another Tungsten also makes it so they can't be cobbled and are necessarily manufactured

i think that the enemies are incredibly out of place and serve no compatible purpose with anything and i only ever acknowledge wulfrum for the cool building materials

and if they were to be reworked i would want them to not be tungsten and maybe for a contiguous rebel engineering/dropshipping project to be more serious in nature, with different roaming machines and devices available throughout progression with different purposes

[shrewd stream]

i forgot that wulfrum is just tungsten but with another name

[west plume]

Rebels are able to accrue massive amounts of a relatively uncommon metal and machine robot hulls, electrical motors and microprocessors completely outside of the view of yharim or any of his administrators, but because technology outside of draedon has to be stupid all they use it to do is produce dumb rolling ball things instead of gas attacking garrisons

[sinful adder]

Now that I think about it, I completely agree with that. Wulfrum enemies should be completely replaced and retired to fit a truly formidable rebel force hiding somewhere underground in the heartlands

Suppose wulfrum is an advanced tungsten alloy instead of cheap garbage

[shrewd stream]

i dont remember what they were before becoming an array of robot things, i think they were slimes?

[sinful adder]

There is already enough early game equipment that isn't wulfrum, the Wulfrum stuff is just too centralizing anyways. I think it would work well for items immediately after WoF, before the ores

Syrup, what do you think?

[leaden bridge]

I was saying this!!!!!

hi let's waste a bunch of complex electronics on gyrator we are very smart

[dusk laurel]

i love my geometric shapes made from scrap metal

[magic epoch]

tungsten cube

[dusk laurel]

we have the trapezoid, the sphere, and the

[sterile robin]

so wulfrum is just tungsten

[wanton pendant]

It's legally distinct tungsten so that the tungsten company doesn't sue.

[west plume]

i don't think it's meaningfully different but some other devs might try to bullshit something about it being an alloy. it's a prehardmode conductive metal with the luster of tungsten and the brittleness of tungsten and the color of tungsten that's a translation issue because 'wolfram' is phonetically still in use

[random mulch]

retroactive lore moment

[wanton pendant]

Anyplace where tungsten is called wolfram, just call it tongston.

[west plume]

also tungsten's emission spectra is primarily blue-green and it emits blue-green light in things like TIG welding and flame tests, so wulfrum's secondary glowing color is Also just tungsten

it makes no sense

[west plume]

here's a TIG welder with a slightly off tungsten composition tip as an example of the blue end of the spectra

so there's really just No excuse to call it an alloy

which, again, bothers me

[random mulch]

probably to justify "wulfrum" being a seperate thing from "tungsten"

[west plume]

i don't think it should be justified that way

[random mulch]

and also potential reasoning that the tungsten in it is éwatered downé by weaker metals to explain how so many bots can be made

but in the end its kinda like trying to think of a question to match an answer

[west plume]

metal composites made of tungsten are usually 90% or more tungsten so there wouldn't be any meaningful gain 4 a hypothetical wulfrum alloy to do it

in-game wulfrum isn't shown to have ceramic properties or anything so it'd be weird for it to be something like tungsten carbide for increased hardness or something

it's kinda just a huge retroactive justification problem and if we ever get around to a hypothetical wulfrum rework again then i'll probably just strip down the whole tungsten theme

[random mulch]

would love to see changes for wulfrum tbh, and also yeah a lot of stuff is retroactive cause calamity is old

aesthetically i'd love for it to be more "cobbled together"

[west plume]

the current rebel justification doesn't really make sense because the current wulfrum sprites are Machined and all wulfrum content since the introduction of the theme has also been Machined

[random mulch]

salvaging whatever they had to give them even the slightest extra chance

[pulsar ocean]

i was playing with a russian translation mod and i was so confused when there were 2 tungstens in the game

[west plume]

case in point

[wanton pendant]

That's why we need tongston.

[random mulch]

the tungsten connection kinda can't be severed without a rename

[late veldt]

Call it wagstaffium

[late veldt]

Ok so, hypothetically, if there was a group of people (similar to the lizahards) who like, worshipped a domain that was owned by a god, but not that god specifically, would Yharim still splatter them?

[wanton pendant]

He hates gods, not the concept of religion.

Lihzahrds worship the sun, which is the domain of Primordial Light, and while he looks down on them he hasn't wiped them out.

[west plume]

the ascended don't own their domains

providence can arbitrarily create as much fire as she wants but most if not all fire mages and people who really into fire are unrelated to providence entirely

yharim has no particular reason to kill random magic users and religious peoples who don't worship or associate with the ascended and have no chance to

this isn't to say he wouldn't, though

you would probably be brutalized by yharim/yharon for being a light mage or worshipping the sun for no fault of your own, but they would not go out of their way to do this

so the solution is ultimately just to not be in front of yharim if you remind him of a god's domain and then you are probably safe from him. i do not know about his followers and soldiers

[pulsar ocean]

can providence swear on will

[wanton pendant]

Yes, she is the Profaned Goddess after all.

[stark flame]

If a legion of 100 Yharims were formed, could they secure victory for The Crusade?

[pulsar ocean]

if 40 yharims is enough to take down xeroc 100 is overkill

[cosmic zenith]

40 seems a bit overkill to me

[west plume]

the legion of 100 yharims would disagree over a minor detail and start killing each other brutally

[light linden]

hi stip

[cosmic zenith]

Hello

[pulsar ocean]

yharim upscale?

[stark flame]

[cosmic zenith]

It's 40 fucking people

[light linden]

can I ask a question about the jungle?

[cosmic zenith]

Sure

[light linden]

are life fruits growing there recent in lore?

[agile matrix]

"i think the gods are evil" "no they're sinners" "is that not the same thing?" "no we commit sins but we arent gods"

repeated ad infinitum

[cosmic zenith]

Let's assume you're fighting someone of equal strength and skill. How much do your odds worsen if another person joins the fight, against you?

[light linden]

I'm tryna think of what the people in the vernal pass ate

[west plume]

'what makes you worthy of yharon's blessing?' 'i attuned to him...' 'i was here first!' 'did you not allow draedon to manufacture that petulant plague?'

[cosmic zenith]

The difficulty of a fight doesn't rise linearly with more people

[cosmic zenith]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

You can just

[agile matrix]

i mean this is either "100 yharims cloned all at once" or "100 yharims from 100 different timelines that are similar enough to result in nearly identical yharims"

[cosmic zenith]

Create your own food

If I were to conceive Vernal Pass food, I wouldn't really go for Life Fruits

[west plume]

100 yharims cloned would be all be dead before the morning probably. all of them would freak the fuck out about being cloned unwillingly

[light linden]

no no this isn't for personal stuff

I'm just curious because jungles tend to have well

[agile matrix]

well couldnt they collaborate to obliterate whatever cloned them

[light linden]

a lot of poisonous plants

[cosmic zenith]

They also tend to have a lot of non-poisonous plants/fruits

[light linden]

can't imagine a subterranian jungle would be much better

also I'm curious what was used to help treat the very prevalent poison

the fruit that enhances vitality seems very likely

[stark flame]

Was the Lunatic Cultist killed by the player?

[dusk laurel]

yep

[stark flame]

Why does the player kill him?

[stark flame]

[untold oracle]

Hi

[late veldt]

Did Perma hate gods before the crusade or?

[split mortar]

We dunno afaik

[noble falcon]

Calamity bosses vs every pokemon
Let’s assume no legendaries or mythicals, how’s that play out

One of each

[split mortar]

Pokemon obliterate the cal characters

Gardevoir smiting noxus with the gravity of a blackhole

[noble falcon]

We’re only doing the in-game bosses for this hypothetical

[cloud ibex]

even worse then

[split mortar]

Thats even worse for the calamity characters

[young socket]

oh ok

fuck you too

[split mortar]

L

[noble falcon]

All the grass types are dead on arrival due to Yharon and Providence existing and just emanating fire everywhere they go

Slime god gets torched in five seconds due to being made of gel

[split mortar]

This was said assuming yharim noxus and xeroc was in the mix

[split mortar]

Well we can assume yeah likely since permafrost did join john kill all gods quite early on and only left once his daughter was forced to larp as a nuclear bombardment

[split mortar]

@late veldt

[late veldt]

that's not larping though she was actively doing a bombardment

And I assumed, and it's very possible, that he joined purely as a risk management/prevention thing

To make sure Yharempire doesn't collapse and more people suffer

[wanton pendant]

Now sure, a bunch of Pokédex entries are hyperbolic/obviously not written with the intention of being used as a basis of how strong they are in-universe. But like, Pokémon are really strong still.

Ditto, I think, is the biggest issue for the Calamity squad.

[late veldt]

the question is is Arceus stronger than Xeroc

[wanton pendant]

Because now there's a second Xeroc against them.

[wanton pendant]

Yes, easily.

[late veldt]

so yeah calamity is fucked

[wanton pendant]

Unless we only go with the stregnth of his avatar.

Then Xeroc's chances are infinitely better.

Since Arceus is literally God.

[late veldt]

@spare pier is this something you'd like to comment on

oh shit speak of the devil lmao

[spare pier]

What the fuck is this conversation? It would take two legendaries and Calamity is done for.

Regigigas literally moves continents.

[split mortar]

Arceus is literally God

As in

Creator of everything

[spare pier]

Literally any legendary trio would wipe Calamity.

[wanton pendant]

Like, yeah, the Pokémon you see named Arceus is only an avatar, but it's still really strong.

[late veldt]

could Mario beat Yharim

[young socket]

ok so if you use lore, the pokemon win
if you use game mechanics, the pokemon win

[wanton pendant]

No, not without Luigi.

[young socket]

having fucking actual god and also perish song is a wild thing

[spare pier]

I'm not saying anything.

[late veldt]

fair enough

[wanton pendant]

But also, like, there are legendary Pokémon that can cause an end of the world scenario by walking around.

[stark flame]

Can Xeroc fully control the Sun by wielding Primordial Light?

[long bloom]

mewtwo would solo yharim and xeroc at the same time

[late veldt]

matter outside of the scope of strict canon, anyways

[split mortar]

Read embers he just makes it fuckin vanish instantly

[wanton pendant]

Anime Mewtwo summoned an apocalyptic storm for fun.

[late veldt]

it's not like an absurdly stupid idea though right

[spare pier]

Why are you people so fixated on Embers when that was made by an ex-dev without supervision from anybody else?

[light linden]

counterpoint

the legendary swords

[spare pier]

They win anyways.

[wanton pendant]

I think Keldeo can clutch that.

[light linden]

they're just animals with swords

[wanton pendant]

REALLY strong animals.

Like, Pokémon are meant to be like, unbeatable by humans.

[light linden]

all but one of them are weak to being punched

[wanton pendant]

And they have swords on their face.

[light linden]

and that one who isn't is afraid of wind

[spare pier]

Keldeo can go toe-to-toe with Kyurem and the dragons are all as strong as Xeroc, if not more.

[noble falcon]

Not the birds
No way the birds

[light linden]

keldeo also has type advantage

[wanton pendant]

Can't Kyurem's power flash freeze a city?

[split mortar]

Cause afaik it was fitting to canon and i did not know that other stuff
And without any proof i was gonna assume its still that until further notice

[wanton pendant]

Xeroc would be Psychic type.

[spare pier]

Type advantage isn't doing shit when you can nuke a continent.

What, do you think Yharim's punches are suddenly doing anything because they're weak? 0 multipled by 2 is still 0.

[light linden]

they do in a direct fight

[noble falcon]

Do the calamity bosses have types in this scenario
It’d be easy enough to figure out what they are

Or are they considered typeless

[wanton pendant]

I had that a bit ago give me a second.

[light linden]

in pokemon both strength and medium of attack matters

[spare pier]

Ok, they still won't do shit when the stats are just way too high.

[light linden]

kyreum really doesn't like being punched by anything

[spare pier]

Yharim isn't beating a continent buster because his attacks are twice as effective.

[light linden]

yharim also is resistant to kyreum's stab

[wanton pendant]

DS: Ground.
Crab: Psychic/Normal.
Hive: Psychic/Dark.
Perf: Fighting/Dark.
SG: Normal (Protean).
Cryo: Ice.
AS: Water/Poison.
BE: Fire/Psychic.
CC: Dark/Fire.
L&A: Water/Psychic.
AA: Steel/Psychic.
PBG: Bug/Steel.
Rav: Dark/Fighting.
AD: Dragon/Psychic.
PG: Fire/Fairy.
DF: Dragon/Electric.
Prov: Fire/Fairy.
SW: Dragon/Flying.
CV: Dark.
Sig: Dark/Psychic.
Pol: Ghost.
OD: Water/Dragon.
DoG: Steel/Dragon.
Yha: Fire/Dragon.
Exo: Steel/Fire.
SWC: Dark/Fire.

[spare pier]

...

Yharim is also not surviving a continent nuke.

[light linden]

archon

[spare pier]

Outis.

[split mortar]

I do not think that is affecting his chances at survivability

[wanton pendant]

Yharim can use Iron Defence, duh.

And a Focus Sash.

[light linden]

wait why is DoG steel/dragon?

[noble falcon]

I would think Providence is fire/rock

[light linden]

steel/dark fits the most

[wanton pendant]

Because he wears armour and is really strong.

[wanton pendant]

Fairy is the best offensive type.

[zenith geode]

knock off 🤤

[light linden]

and CV should be dark/psychic

[wanton pendant]

That would imply it can think.

[light linden]

also storm weaver should probably either be water/flying or dragon/electric

[long bloom]

it's not a dragon

[zenith geode]

weaver isnt anything vaguely draconic

[light linden]

it involuntarily uses magic

[light linden]

or probably electric/flying

[wanton pendant]

It's dragon as in the 'it's really strong' sense and not literally being a dragon.

[long bloom]

why aren't exos steel/electric

[wanton pendant]

They burn you.

[light linden]

exos is just a massive mess

[spare pier]

This is how Yharim would look like after a single Fusion Flare.

[light linden]

and it likely depends on the mech

[long bloom]

2 of them do

[noble falcon]

I think cryogen should be ice/psychic

[split mortar]

True

[wanton pendant]

It also can't think.

[noble falcon]

It’s about the magic that comprises it

[light linden]

e.g. thanatos would probably be steel/rock or steel/fire

[long bloom]

it's a magical construct

[wanton pendant]

Fairy is more magic.

[noble falcon]

Ok, ice fairy then

[light linden]

ares would probably be steel/fighting

apollo would be steel/fire

[split mortar]

Ice dark because ice because ice and dark because calamitas clearly

[light linden]

artemis would either be steel/electric or steel/flying

[young socket]

cryogonal has more thinking capacity than cryogen and its pure ice so i think pure ice cryogen is fine

[noble falcon]

Providence being fairy is pretty big for the calamity boss’ side, something to deal with the heavy dragon type hitters and able to tank heaps of damage

[long bloom]

or: they're all steel/electric because they're all powered by electricity

[split mortar]

Calamity is fucked if we go gameplay

[wanton pendant]

That's boring.

[light linden]

being powered by something doesn't always correlate to their typing

[noble falcon]

Exo mechs are stellar type, exo prisms act as a source of terastal power

[wanton pendant]

Banned.

[light linden]

also apollo flat out uses only fire attacks

[noble falcon]

Welp

[spare pier]

Also, considering the birds were wiping Lugia's ass, who is relative or superior to Xeroc, I think they win easily.

[light linden]

also cc should probably be steel/fire in her current form

[wanton pendant]

Barnacles to the current form.

[light linden]

also I could see OD being poison/dragon

since it mainly attacks with poison

[noble falcon]

Wouldn’t it make sense for Crabulon to have whatever type parasect has
It’s the same idea, crab mushroom things

[wanton pendant]

Umbreon attacks with poison and it's not Poison type.

[light linden]

umbreon is also a mess

umbreon was switched last minute to dark

[spare pier]

?

[wanton pendant]

At least Parasect's body is still alive.

[spare pier]

Umbreon would not make sense as poison type in a million years.

[light linden]

yes but that's also literally what happened

[spare pier]

It was swapped from what? Normal?

Psychic?

Also what's your source?

[wanton pendant]

Poison, I presume.

[light linden]

it was originally poison

[split mortar]

Poison to dark i think

[light linden]

switched to dark

[spare pier]

I refuse to believe that.

Show me a source.

[light linden]

g/s betas that were leaked

[wanton pendant]

The Pokédex references it using poison.

[young socket]

umbreon was originally planned to be poison, but it was swapped when they made the dark type

[stark flame]

[light linden]

it's dumb but it is what happened

[spare pier]

Did that also come with a complete redesign?

[light linden]

no iirc

[west plume]

ur saying that ho-oh solos xeroc btw

[split mortar]

Is that wrong

[plucky juniper]

pokemon development lore was not what i anticipated when i went into the #lore-discussion

[spare pier]

Then it was something else. Poison type was probably a placeholder and whoever wrote the Pokédex thought that was going to be a thing and worked based on that and didn't have time to change it.

[young socket]

no it was just purplish instead

[light linden]

there were other dark types in the game that were dark types

[wanton pendant]

That thing can raise the dead and grant wishes.

[spare pier]

Yeah, I don't see how that's unreasonable.

[young socket]

heres the original gen 2 sprite btw

[spare pier]

Pokémon just scales far higher than Calamity.

[west plume]

ur also saying that Cresselia solos xeroc

[spare pier]

Every meaningful legendary is continental or above.

[stark flame]

How large is the Terraria planet? Is it the same size as the real Earth?

[light linden]

eh?

[spare pier]

Afaik Cresselia is one of the more powerful legendaries too.

[wanton pendant]

Never specified.

[light linden]

the gen 8 dogs and gen 9 bikes are a bit

fucked

[wanton pendant]

Zacian and Zamazenta fought a nuclear bomb.

[spare pier]

I think the dogs who can beat Eternatus have that kind of stats, shockingly.

[light linden]

we still don't know if that's due to them or the weapons

[wanton pendant]

That was otherwise invincible.

[light linden]

also it is very likely that they're just

good at fighting them

[spare pier]

How?

[light linden]

tryna think of a good way to put this

[west plume]

articuno solos xeroc

[spare pier]

How would the dogs be good at fighting something that literally didn't exist until 5 minutes ago?

[light linden]

their weapons specifically seem to be

also we only have seem them fight eternatus in lore for certain

[spare pier]

What?

The final boss of SW&SH is Eternamax Eternatus.

[light linden]

it's like trying to fight a tank with a pistol and then someone pulls out an anti tank gun

[spare pier]

You literally use them to fight that thing.

[wanton pendant]

Having an anti-tank gun makes you pretty strong.

[light linden]

I'm trying to put this in the right way

[young socket]

yharim is weak because without his armour or weapons hes washed

:/

[light linden]

we've seen them fight something exceptionally strong and win where others can't

[spare pier]

And sure, they aren't as strong as Eternatus and you can chalk some of it up to matchup, but I think if you're fighting something capable of planetary destruction, matchup isn't going to carry you.

[light linden]

but we haven't seen them ever cause even a sliver of what eternatus can cause

[wanton pendant]

That's because their skill set is not in sheer havoc.

Eternatus literally represents nuclear power.

[light linden]

yes but that doesn't mean they can do the same damage as a tank

god I hate pokemon powerscaling

a baby rat can take out a piece of God

[young socket]

cool

[light linden]

but said baby rat can't do so if it's hailing

[young socket]

we werent talking about game mechanics

[spare pier]

An anti-tank gun isn't doing the same damage as a tank, but it still needs a certain degree of strength to be capable of doing so to begin with.

[light linden]

also it's worth mentioning

we only know examples of the dogs being able to hurt eternatus when wielding that sword and shield

it's possible that it's just those

[young socket]

im going to kill you

[light linden]

and not the dogs

[young socket]

_ _

[spare pier]

An anti-tank gun isn't a gun that magically pierces a tank's armor and does nothing else, it's a gun that is designed around a tank to cause as much damage to it as possible.

[wanton pendant]

The sword and shield that can only be used by those dogs.

That are instantly repaired by those dogs.

[light linden]

that's also a different situation

[wanton pendant]

That transforms those dogs.

[young socket]

no it isnt

[spare pier]

It's literally not.

[light linden]

we haven't seen literally anything in lore of the dogs without those things

sure in game mechanics we do

[young socket]

we havent seen anything in lore without yharim having armour

[light linden]

but you also said we aren't talking about that

[spare pier]

You're just saying "if you remove the thing that makes the dogs special, they're weak".

[light linden]

he survived direct contact with lava

[spare pier]

Yeah, if Kyogre can't manipulate water he's weak.

[pulsar ocean]

if you think about it xeroc without his godly soul is lowk washed

[wanton pendant]

If you're nothing without the Pokémon Sword and Shield for the Nintendo Switch Family of Systems, you shouldn't have it or something.

[young socket]

you think he was naked during then?

[wanton pendant]

Do we know they made contact?

[light linden]

idk

[pulsar ocean]

i always imagined it like that

[light linden]

he was being executed

I doubt he had protection

[spare pier]

Either way, it's obvious that if I'm saying "every meaningful legendary is continental", I'm talking about their strongest incarnation and not a hypothetical swordless Zacian and shieldless Zamazenta that we never see anywhere.

You're just being a contrarian for the sake of it here.

[light linden]

I'm struggling to find the words for what I am trying to say

[spare pier]

I will give you Miraidon and Koraidon, though.

[light linden]

miraidon is the one I'd see him having the most trouble of the two with tbh

since fancy future bike that can go stupid fast would not be fun to hit

[wanton pendant]

I mean, sure, not every legendary is actually some super powerful god.
But quite a few of them are.

[spare pier]

It's not like this matters anyways.

[wanton pendant]

It doesn't matter, like from Sonic.

[light linden]

also I wonder what the hell the lake trio would be like in a fight

sure they have an important role

but we know like

[wanton pendant]

Lake Trio can remove your will, emotions and memories.

[light linden]

nothing about their actual powers

[wanton pendant]

By touch.

[spare pier]

I just thought I'd bring up the fact that every actually strong legendary would probably beat anyone in Calamity in a fight because they just scale far higher.

[wanton pendant]

And can also be used to create the Red Chain.

[light linden]

where is that stated?

[young socket]

i feel like people forget that the lake trio are just deadass gods that have controls over peoples minds

like

[wanton pendant]

It's their whole thing.

[young socket]

theyre the fourth fifth and sixth thing arceus created

[light linden]

it was only stated that they're the embodiment of it tmk

sure they COULD remove it

but idk if they actually can

[wanton pendant]

'According to legend, when Arceus created the universe, it created Uxie, Mesprit, and Azelf, and gave them the ability to calm and control Dialga and Palkia whenever they were enraged. According to one of Azelf's Pokédex entries, all three of them were born from the same Egg.

As mentioned in their respective Pokédex entries, the lake guardians taught humans the ability to feel emotions, knowledge, and willpower. The lake guardians are said to reside in three lakes in Sinnoh; Lake Acuity, Lake Verity, and Lake Valor. As mentioned in "A Horrific Myth", the lake guardians are known to drive humans away from them by either erasing their memories, losing emotions within three days, or losing willpower. '

[dusk laurel]

whatsappvincible versus yharim

[light linden]

thanks

also what about the original regi trio?

I feel like yharim vs registeel is gonna be a mess

[wanton pendant]

'Long ago, the Legendary Pokémon Regigigas created other Pokémon in its own image, using ice, rocks, magma, a cluster of electric energy, and crystallized dragon energy, which would be known as Regice, Regirock, Registeel, Regieleki, and Regidrago respectively. Regieleki and Regidrago are especially powerful among the giants, but both do not have access to their full power, as Regieleki was fitted with special non-conductive equipment to limit its power[5] and Regidrago was sealed within ancient ruins before it was completed by Regigigas.[6]

All of the giants used to live alongside humans, being worshipped by them. After pulling the landmasses together and binding them with ropes to create the regions of the Pokémon world, Regigigas entered a deep sleep within Snowpoint Temple, being sealed away by a large door locked by a puzzle. The other five golems were eventually sealed away by its worshippers out of fear of their power: Regirock was sealed in Hoenn's Desert Ruins, Sinnoh's Rock Peak Ruins, and Galar's Rock Peak Ruins; Regice in Hoenn's Island Cave, Sinnoh's Iceberg Ruins, and Galar's Iceberg Ruins; Registeel in Hoenn's Ancient Tomb, Sinnoh's Iron Ruins, and Galar's Iron Ruins; and both Regieleki and Regidrago in Galar's Split-Decision Ruins.'

[young socket]

regice never melts, regirock never erodes and registeel never rusts

so like lol? lmao?

they were also made by John Continent Mover

[noble falcon]

As long as any of the bosses get close enough to the ground, dugtrio could kill them by piercing them at light speed while emerging from the ground

It doesn’t really matter where specifically they get hit with that kind of power

[wanton pendant]

Now we're just being silly.

[deft vessel]

What a silly wraith gaming

[noble falcon]

Look it up
It’s real

[wanton pendant]

No results.

[noble falcon]

1st terminalmontage pokemon battle royale and the associated lockstin and gnoggin analysis made to go with it

[wanton pendant]

How the hell was I meant to find that from that information.

[light linden]

this whole mess is why I hate pokemon powerscaling with 99% of other pieces of media

[noble falcon]

Hey it’s not like I foresaw you wouldn’t find it the first try

[light linden]

in theory most pokemon could be very easy to take out with just a gun

but some baby pokemon can do stuff that are considered continental feats

[wanton pendant]

Obviously Dugtrio, in-universe, can't move at light speed.

[light linden]

like this thing

this thing is literally just a fish

and not a very strong one

but it can change the weather just as easily as the god of the seas

[split mortar]

Not surprising
Child media that runs on seemingly pseudo toon logic when taken seriously snaps logic in half and results in absurd stuff

[light linden]

this thing can cause earthquakes strong enough to harm the god of time

and even outside of game mechanics things don't make sense

entei would likely cause a global apocalypse by existing

but it doesn't

somehow

not to mention the whole mew/arceus mess

celebi and dialga are nearly the same mon twice

victini is a titanic self contradictory mess

[wanton pendant]

Celebi can time travel, Dialga creates time.

[light linden]

I'm not gonna go into the messy lore for the dogs again

[noble falcon]

Riolu is the goddamn juggernaut in general

Dude’s crazy

[light linden]

hell some legendaries seemingly flip flop between just being a very strong species and something unique every 10 minutes

looking at you eon duo, heatran, solgaleo, and lunala

genesect and diance too

and the power levels between legendaries ain't even consistent

i.e. the dogs with medieval weaponry and animal bikes vs the embodiments of life and death

also pecharunt is a bit

fucked powerscaling wise

[wanton pendant]

It mind controls things.

[light linden]

yes but it also seems capable of enhancing a bunch of stuff

[sinful adder]

Not just as easily. A lot of the stuff you mentioned actually does have answers

So, the Arceus we see is actually just an avatar of the real thing. The real thing exists outside of the universe, seemingly

The weather trio were originally much stronger, but were weakened into being within an order of magnitude as strong as normal pokemon.

A lot of legendaries are actually not unique, but this is also messed up by the fact that travel between parallel universes is apparently relatively really easy in pokemon

Regular pokemon can cause short term rain in a small area, while even non primal Kyogre can cause permanent rain over an entire small country, if it really feels like it

It's also implied that while regular pokemon can be permanently harmed like you would expect, it's a lot harder to cause any permanent harm to legendaries. This is despite them being similar in strength and durability in battles

[sinful adder]

You mean 2000 year old heroes of legend and the peak embodiments of an obsessed scientist's dream imbued with the Primordial elemental power of the world

[feral skiff]

what if X calamity character actually did Y thing

[icy veldt]

What if Harry Turtledove got isekai'd into Calamity and wrote an alternate history series about the theocratic imperium of God-King Yharim, except it's just a one-to-one retelling of the actual Crusade with the sides switched around, and part of it includes a Profaned Calamitas

[timber glacier]

What if braelor ate a pop tart

[zenith geode]

what if draedon found a misterious rock

[plucky juniper]

4032 hour long recap

[wanton pendant]

What if Yharim was a pacifist but Chara made him do it.

[abstract hedge]

It'd probably manage to turn it into a superweapon of some kind...

[noble falcon]

What if YOU ate a pop tart
What then

[wanton pendant]

WHY would YOU eat one. They're not that good.

[zenith geode]

we're gonna kill you

[wanton pendant]

Why? :(

[zenith geode]

poptarts ARE that good

[wanton pendant]

I don't know what Americans see in them.

[long bloom]

poptarts are mid

[magic epoch]

i feel like poptarts are only good when you're 7 years old

[leaden bridge]

i ate poptarts once

they were okay

[timber glacier]

Why are statis’ blessing and curse named after statis? Like was statis like a summoner or something or are they just called that for other reasons

[wanton pendant]

I don't think classes are a hard thing that exists in the lore.

[bronze lynx]

what is delicious meat in lore

[wanton pendant]

I think you can figure that one out yourself.

[bronze lynx]

is it a reference to breaking bad because it's a blue product dealt by a funny moustache

[wanton pendant]

Permafrost just likes eating meat. He's so tired of the cold.

It's divine one might say.

[raven brook]

How Delicious.

[light linden]

[timber glacier]

Random Question: aren’t the undead in calamity non-sapient and like loose their like personality and stuff, but if that is correct then like what is up with the skeleton merchant

[long bloom]

he's built different

[raven brook]

Built differdnt

[bronze lynx]

i'm not sure if i'm up to my calamity lore but i'm pretty sure it depends per undead

[light linden]

cheese you never answered me

[raven brook]

Qhatd you ask

[robust osprey]

skele merchant is just THAT good

[noble falcon]

Yharon rebirthed him as the Chill Guy Skeleton after finding out he sells artesanal loaves

[robust osprey]

the power of yoyo

[bronze lynx]

how do souls and auric souls taste like

[timber glacier]

They taste like guilt

[robust osprey]

are you sure

did you ate one

[timber glacier]

Yes I consumed one

[robust osprey]

suspicious

[bronze lynx]

pretty sure provi and xeroc don't feel guilt over it sooo it just might taste good

[timber glacier]

I’d imagine xeroc would feel some guilt cos wasn’t he friends with zeratros

[robust osprey]

I mean

[bronze lynx]

so it tastes like chocolate it the sense that you feel guilty after you eat it?

[robust osprey]

wouldn't he just

get mogged by moonlord anyways

if xeroc didnt eat his soul

[bronze lynx]

true

[timber glacier]

I am very curious of the circumstances that lead to each god to getting an auric soul to ascend with