lore-discussion

[craggy sparrow]

his ass switching builds mid fight

[feral skiff]

yharim can also press alt+f4 when he’s losing

[craggy sparrow]

this actually canonizes the yharim gaming rig

all of the budget from their conquest, half of it had gone into his gaming rig

[west plume]

why don't you have a magical crystal

[craggy sparrow]

low mana

[west plume]

'i don't have mana so i can't own a cool ass magical crystal :('

are you hearing yourself

[craggy sparrow]

hes probably using it as a phone

has fucking youtube on it

[pulsar ocean]

watching tiktok on the magical crystal

[craggy sparrow]

yharon...calamitas had sent me something very confusing

what is a pogchamp

and how am i an unc

[west plume]

Yharon, what is a 'Six Seven'? Is that some kind of magical incantation? Is she cursing me?

[craggy sparrow]

my child soldiers are sending me...rather unorthodox jokes...

in a form of instagram reels

[feral skiff]

His servers have 100% accurate weather predictions for the week, which means that his drones don’t even need waterproofing anymore, because he just sends them out on clear days

[craggy sparrow]

draedon weather app

[wanton pendant]

"Calamitas, stop changing the weather, I am trying to research the frogs."

[craggy sparrow]

i think the lizhards

are an interesting species to research

nvm i was thinking of lizards regenerative abilities but i remembered we have healing potions

I think magic just gets rid of multiple problems

in calamity atleast

oh we need to deep dive for ocean exploration

we have a potion for that

what we need our miners to be more fast efficient and safe? mining potions danger sense potions and spelunking potions

[wanton pendant]

Gills Potion has limits.

[craggy sparrow]

what

how

[wanton pendant]

Abyss.

[craggy sparrow]

true

but for other stuff we generally got it covered

even fighting monsters which you think would be a constant dangerous problem

but if you actually think and put yourself in the world its kinda meh?

unless its hardmode

but then again guns exist

[magic epoch]

you can summon servants of hell to fight for you

[craggy sparrow]

That too

but i guess being a summoner or mage is the stand in for engineers

or just another subclass of engineers

since we actually do have machine and electrical engineers in lore

[noble falcon]

(Calamitas making an army of tiny snow frogs) “This’ll teach those heretic bugs a lesson for worshiping that moth god.”

[tall delta]

who shattered it

[west plume]

idk

[noble falcon]

Me
I dropped it

[spare pier]

For posterity this isn't entirely true but not entirely wrong

I'm not going to explain what is and isn't true though

[light linden]

hi madeline

got time for a question?

[spare pier]

Sure

[split mortar]

Is there a dragon of lemonade

[spare pier]

Dragon of lemons god of lemonade

[split mortar]

I see

[light linden]

have you put any thought into how the kelp in the sunken sea gets sunlight?

or what acts as a replacement?

[dusk laurel]

[stark flame]

Where can I go to learn about the old Calamity lore？

[spare pier]

No

[light linden]

gotcha

thanks

[wanton pendant]

There's an old document.

[stark flame]

Does Calamity have photosynthesis？

[wanton pendant]

Why wouldn't it exist?

There's literally a photosynthesis potion.

[stark flame]

I forgot, haha.

[dusk laurel]

wwg potion

[split mortar]

Nilla use style 1 sword

[dusk laurel]

boars myself

[stark flame]

File not found

[noble falcon]

Chat, does calamity account for the cellular structure of the smooth endoplasmic reticulum

[craggy sparrow]

Actually

how do fucking cellphones work

in cal lore

[wanton pendant]

They're phones.

[craggy sparrow]

what radio waves does it use

[wanton pendant]

With magic teleporting stuff.

[light linden]

also a thing I just realized

[wanton pendant]

Phones aren't radios.

[craggy sparrow]

cause i know we aint getting signal in the war continent

[wanton pendant]

Wifi exists until further notice.

[light linden]

the kelp is green which means they're focused on absorbing red and blue light

[craggy sparrow]

Magical wifi

but seriously im kinda bummed there isn't much lore given to accessories or items

especially weapons

[light linden]

there is actually

[wanton pendant]

A lot of them are basically just... you know, weapons.

[light linden]

the legendary weapons and a few weapon lines got lore

[craggy sparrow]

"Not much"

[wanton pendant]

A lot of them are stuff you made.

Not much lore you can put into something that was literally made by you.

[light linden]

also exhumed stuff from calamitas

[craggy sparrow]

You're telling me there isn't much lore or atleast yharim talking to you about making specific weapons

[split mortar]

90% of the shit is stuff we made while high on queen bee honey idk if they could make much lore for them

[wanton pendant]

Like, there's not going to be lore about why I made an Iron Broadsword.

[craggy sparrow]

yharim i made a fucking cosmic scissor

[wanton pendant]

Because why would there be.

[craggy sparrow]

notice my accomplishments

[wanton pendant]

Yeah, that's cool, but you literally made it, it doesn't have a history.

[craggy sparrow]

no i meant like maybe atleast description on the items used

or the process

would be really cool

actually some weapons are even drops

[split mortar]

Many items do get random exaggerated hype moments and aura put in their descriptions its like an issue causing some to think end game is like universal somehow

[wanton pendant]

That's because the Ozzatron dev item says so.

[craggy sparrow]

I dont really care about scaling

anymore

[wanton pendant]

Not since the incident.

[split mortar]

I was giving an example of what said tooltips have done to the community

[craggy sparrow]

tbh

this is the hype moments and aura mod

[craggy sparrow]

what the fuck is he holding

[light linden]

metastatis I believe

[split mortar]

Yeah because it had a metaphor as its tooltip for ages

[craggy sparrow]

i wonder if it was made like this or just passed around too much lmao

[split mortar]

?

[craggy sparrow]

the image

[light linden]

it's from nearly 3 years ago for context

.

[dusk laurel]

take the red pill, auraful tooltips that powerscalers seem to gobble up for some reason
or the blue pill, lore tooltips that maybe could be ever so slightly less long but other than that are harmless

[wheat walrus]

Both

[leaden bridge]

im taking the red oine because if we're going to have flaws let them come with aura

#notsorry

[rain osprey]

i'm going to continue letting tooltips have hype moments and aura

powerscalers cannot stop me

[stark flame]

Does Calamity have the Big Bang?

[long bloom]

we dunno

doesn't really matter anyway

[stark flame]

Can anyone tell me where the old lore files are?

[wanton pendant]

Just look up 'Calamity Old Lore document'.

[long bloom]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/14H0fmHigzvTxbQ1ipWOhD9bpN-49tN6cCs6Jb4QZRLw/edit?usp=drivesdk

[stark flame]

Thanks

[wheat walrus]

high outerverse level statement

[dusk laurel]

good

[real glen]

DraeGPT generate me good and fair exo mechs

[light linden]

what

wtf was that

[noble falcon]

Breaking: Due to large price increases, exo mechs will be cut due to lack of funding for replacement graphics cards necessary to power them

[spare pier]

I don't even understand what's the problem with meaningful lore tooltips even if they're a bit big?

I understand that having only them is a problem, but why is having them at all one?

Every game under the sun has those in some capacity. Fuck, Dark Souls does it all the time and I don't see anyone complaining about that

[craggy sparrow]

Impossible

[spare pier]

Dark Souls does it pretty differently, sure, but that's just because the writing we're going for is different than what they went for

[craggy sparrow]

my qol inf summon mod says otherwise

[young socket]

because terraria doesnt do it

and any deviation from terraria is bad

[leaden bridge]

genuinely who has ever said this

[spare pier]

I don't want to sweep Ender's criticism under the rug like that and I'm sure that's not what they meant

[leaden bridge]

who has ever complained about calamity lore not being terrarialike

terraria doesnt even have lore

who the fuck has ever said this

[spare pier]

Frankly I've come to appreciate Terraria's simplistic lore even if I still have some problems with it

Mostly the Mechanic bullshit

But it's whatever

[noble falcon]

I like how terraria gives you a bunch of big pieces and lets you come up with your own way to fit them together

[leaden bridge]

i dont precisely care about "long" tooltips i think in my mind nilla's original comment is about tooltips that say too much and should be cut down and edited because they are too wordy not just that they are like. long

thats what im saying

[spare pier]

Ok that makes sense yeah

[spare pier]

I mean it doesn't

[leaden bridge]

and if we are going to have weird flaws i prefer bullshit powerscaling Hold the Power of a Billion BLackhole tooltips than poorly redacted long ones

[spare pier]

It's pretty cut and clear what the story is

Moon Lord did some bullshit in the past and was sealed on the moon, cultists want to bring him back, you kill the guy

But I think everything is presented in a pretty neat way despite how simplistic it is

And it all makes sense besides the Mechanic bullshit

[plucky lichen]

She is here

Wait wrong chat

Whatever enjoy lore this is relevant I promise

[wanton pendant]

Why is Calamitas turning yellow? Is she minion?

[plucky lichen]

It’s the screen

She’s grey and lightly blond in game I promise

[wanton pendant]

Why is your screen turning yellow? Is it minion?

[plucky lichen]

It is the CAMERA that makes it APPEAR yellow but it’s NOT ACTUALLY YELLOW!

[wanton pendant]

Why is your camera making things yellow? Is it minion?

[plucky lichen]

Count your days.

[dusk laurel]

Absolutely despicable.

[plucky juniper]

whats the problem with the mechanic lore?

[noble falcon]

Isn’t it just like
Cultists kidnap her, force her to make the mech bosses, leave her in the dungeon and that’s why she hates living in the caverns

That doesn’t seem so bad

[cosmic zenith]

I personally prefer Minecraft's pseudolore tbh....

[leaden bridge]

calamity lore

can we rename the channel to quasilore discussion

its a great bit

itd be a great bit

i think calling it "half" or "not quite" lore is wrong because thats not what it is like at all but it doesnt matter

[cosmic zenith]

Quasilore, that's the word

I had forgotten which one it was

But either way, it's a lot more interesting imo to have scattered hints of lore within environments than having explicit but fairly shallow lore

[leaden bridge]

the funny part is they do have very explicit very rich lore

its just all told through enviromental details!!!!!

and you are explicitly meant to, specially within the context of Minecraft, to make up your own reason for why they are there

but mojang does have an internal canon where features connect and pull from

and its fun

[cosmic zenith]

Given the level of interpretation Minecraft players usually display, I would say lore told through environmental details is implicit

Save for very obvious things like the End City

[leaden bridge]

i mean fair it's designed with that intent

[leaden bridge]

is it obvious

[cosmic zenith]

The existence of something to be understood is obvious

Which is what, imo, factors into how explicit it is

[leaden bridge]

I think this applies to about everything though

[cosmic zenith]

Not always, I'd say

The stronghold is significantly more mysterious in what it ultimately means and to what extent it connects to a larger lore than the End having cities, boats and wings
If I'm not mistaken, even things like materials, potion recipes, etc have some consistency that hints at deeper lore

[light linden]

hi stip

been wondering something if you have time

[cosmic zenith]

Sure

[light linden]

could astral bars spread astral infection in lore?

[cosmic zenith]

Theoretically, yes

[leaden bridge]

I mean the weapons made out of it do that

[timber glacier]

Doesn’t the astral infection not like spread out in lore or something? I thought draedon said something about that in some of the contact dialogues

[cosmic zenith]

I'm fairly sure it's specified to not spread through terrain

[sinful adder]

Could draedon himself ever be infected by astral?

[leaden bridge]

Yes

[sinful adder]

Either him, or parts of his "body"?

[leaden bridge]

He tells you

[sinful adder]

Oh

Does draedon have a soul?

He is sentient, so it is surprising that he would be capable of being fully infected

[leaden bridge]

i don't think that's the part tuat matters

[sinful adder]

Because humans can resist it forever but animals can't

[cosmic zenith]

*sapient

[sinful adder]

Right

Draedon is sapient

[cosmic zenith]

Plenty of sentient beings can be easily assimilated

[leaden bridge]

you are forgotting like an important part separating draedon from things that dont get infected

can we talk about the throwaway line about exo technology being based on his brain

[sinful adder]

I don't think that part makes sense as being important. If humans had silicon cells would they be infected?

[leaden bridge]

well the silicon cells would be biological so no

[sinful adder]

what's the difference?

The astral infection can infect biological things

It specifically doesn't infect sapient beings

[leaden bridge]

hes not biological

his body doesnt. count as a living sapient being

[sinful adder]

So something has to be sapient and biological

[leaden bridge]

so it gets infected

[sinful adder]

That seems bizarre

[leaden bridge]

i understand what he means but like what does he mean

[sinful adder]

The exo mechs use an artificial nervous system instead of wires

They're intelligent

[leaden bridge]

yeah but what the fuck does this guy mean its based on his own brain

[sinful adder]

Draedon has an artificial brain

[leaden bridge]

like okay i understand he just extruded the way hes constructed to this thing

but like what the fuck. who made you man. what the fuck are you running on

[sinful adder]

Draedon has a brain that replicates the functions of biological neurons

[cosmic zenith]

I this case, it's likely more important to ask what Draedon accomplished

Personally, I doubt he stuck to the same neural network he had over 6 centuries ago

[leaden bridge]

i mean yeah giving everything a brain is really good brains are really good at calculating

they are really good computers bogged down by energy consumption and other biological factors

its so cool

[sinful adder]

My headcanon is that draedon's body could become infected but his brain couldn't fully

The infected parts would gain a full of their own, but the original will would remain

[leaden bridge]

can you guys make the second date here a little later

it sounds rlly silly for draedon to say his creations became a myth in .... fourty years

[cosmic zenith]

a cerebral network taken to its theoretical extreme.

[leaden bridge]

i dont think it would break anything if you did that

and it would just improve this

by making draedon not say his creations became a myth in fourty years

[sinful adder]

Some animals already act that way. Octopus limbs each have their own "brain" and act independently

[cosmic zenith]

While I think it never became a broadly-accepted fact to begin with, I do agree with the notion

[leaden bridge]

idt "theres people alive who can tell you about this" is really myth territory

[cosmic zenith]

@spare pier Thoughts?

[sinful adder]

Suppose each component of an exo machine were partially self aware, so that it could figure out what its needs are to fulfill its function

I think that would make sense

[sage pulsar]

what if the ninja was draedon all this time (joking)

[cosmic zenith]

Never said it stuck to myth territory
Simply that its status as a fact was on the edge of going back to being challenged

[sinful adder]

Stip, if draedon is sapient but can be infected, what makes the difference? Would it make more sense for him to be only able to be partially infected like I said?

[leaden bridge]

i mean. he does say, explicitly "became nothing more than a myth until the crusade". so like

[cosmic zenith]

Oh, so you mean later

[spare pier]

Human society moves at an often unprecedented pace. The speed at which truth can become conflated with myth is faster than one may imagine, especially when the tales seem to stretch believability.

But I have no issues with moving the date further on the timeline. It would change nothing.

[cosmic zenith]

I think it would make sense to move it forward

[spare pier]

Then your will be done.

[cosmic zenith]

Finally someone's asking questions!
But what's the fun in me just giving you an answer? Speculate!

[leaden bridge]

okay but like someone whos 45 could have memories of this

i dont think at any point in history someone would be calling that a myth

they could very well be calling it a fictional story and all that but not like, Myth

[cosmic zenith]

A hoax, perhaps

[leaden bridge]

and if as he ssays people had even got to meet him and study his crap then its even less believable people r callign it a myth yeah

[wanton pendant]

Ninja if I recall was one of the Onyx Kinsmen... ironic.

[leaden bridge]

anyways s

[leaden bridge]

i just think its because his body is artificial

[sage pulsar]

👀 😔

[leaden bridge]

if he put whatever machine his actual brain runs on in the infection id ont know what would happen though

but i think scout drones would get functionally completely infected

[wanton pendant]

I assume it's some kind of willpower thing and machinary can't exert will, even if it's intelligent.

[trim edge]

did the infection make aureus stronger or weaker

[wanton pendant]

Good question.

[leaden bridge]

stronger

[trim edge]

astral exo mechs...

[leaden bridge]

i think they would explode

i dont think the astral knows how to handle exo prisms

[plucky juniper]

@spare pier anyhow

[noble falcon]

Well that may be but just wait, the second someone actually tries it, we might get Astrum Thanatos and the whole world is exploded

[leaden bridge]

lmao

ermmm draedon starforge

[sinful adder]

I have been speculating at all the options and none of the seemingly canon ones are satisfying

[spare pier]

The mechanic just isn't a cool character and giving her such a big role feels more like trying to justify things than actually tell a cohesive story

She's so unimportant and has so little presence, why give her such a big role?

[plucky juniper]

i mean what else is the dungeon cult doing with her

[cosmic zenith]

Maybe because it isn't telling a cohesive story

[spare pier]

They don't have to explain that

[spare pier]

It is, though

[plucky juniper]

like genuinely

[sinful adder]

My favorite option:
Draedon's body and machines can become mostly infected and will gain the astral will, but the original mind won't be entirely overtaken

[plucky juniper]

what else could the dungeon cult be doing? remember, unlike calamity lore, they're actually trying to resurrect the moon lord

[spare pier]

Everything besides that makes perfect sense and is really cool, it just feels like they saw the Mechs and didn't know what to do with them and just tacked the Mechanic's name onto it

[young socket]

can i point something out

[noble falcon]

If we don’t have a hammer or smth in our inventory, how do we make stuff at the cosmic anvil
Do we just throw haymakers at the cosmilite bars

[young socket]

supposedly the mechanic was ordered to make the spine, eyes and skull of the moon lord

things... the moon lord already has...

[sinful adder]

This makes a cool possible: five pebbles draedon

[leaden bridge]

the anvil just grabs one from hammerspace of course

[noble falcon]

Oh that’s why they call it that

[cosmic zenith]

It is piecing together elements that weren't designed to amount to a cohesive story
They are fairly successful all things considered but it doesn't surprise me at all to see oddities such as Mechanic building the Mechs

[plucky juniper]

i like to assume the moon lord is just using spectral ectoplasm to compensate for those parts

[spare pier]

Idk, it doesn't have to do anything besides be there and seemingly be attempting to resurrect it with spells or something

[cosmic zenith]

There's also some inconsistencies

[leaden bridge]

its also made by the law of fairness guy and he snuck the law of fairness in so i cant respect it lmao

[plucky juniper]

maybe if he didnt have to he could use that for other things like legs

RIGHT 😭

[sinful adder]

Stupid explanation: none of them have actually seen the moon lord so they're just trying random shit

[spare pier]

Oh yeah

[cosmic zenith]

Like how the Steampunk and Mechanic act like the Cyborg is a new acquaintance despite them canonically having built him together

[spare pier]

Wait no I'm not talking about that

[leaden bridge]

i cant believe law of fairness guy is now forever out of this community

[cosmic zenith]

I know you aren't

[sinful adder]

They changed the cyborg lore 3 times and all 3 iterations are in the vanilla game at the same time

[spare pier]

I'm talking about what's actually ingame which was written entirely independently from that guy

[leaden bridge]

how will he grab children and put him in this discord server to disucss the law of fairness with him

[plucky juniper]

wait what is he up to now

[leaden bridge]

i assume nuked the law of fairness discord again and getting people into it on his own

[sinful adder]

The stuff that's actually in game also contradicts itself

[spare pier]

Anyways my point is exactly that trying to piece together these elements rather than letting them exist independently with no explanation is the problem

[cosmic zenith]

We'd be hypocritical to act like it's only their flaw

[spare pier]

I like Terraria's little story when it comes to the Cultist's plans, the Moon Lord and how the player interacts with it, but everything else is frankly a mess

[young socket]

its not, the mechs being for moon lord is a vanilla thing. what was made by the guy was the mechanic specifically doing it (tho doing it with just vanilla sources isnt a giant leap, since the bestiary does mention the cult capturing the mechanic for her expertise)

[plucky juniper]

i dunno about you but calamity lore... inherently has to do that. it has to piece together elements from what is layed out in terraria, connect that to what is created for calamity's stuff

[spare pier]

I'm

Talking about Vanilla tho

[leaden bridge]

1.4 released after those pages did so we'll never know if this is 100% true

itll be god's greatest mystery

[plucky juniper]

of course, that doesnt have really any bearing on quality

[young socket]

the guy was never a dev i dont believe so i dont think he wrote the bestiary

[leaden bridge]

i mean he didnt write them on his own anyways it was a collaboritive project between people in tgc or however the server was called

[plucky juniper]

otherwise why else is #lore-discussion mostly about cal-lore rather than terraria-lore

[spare pier]

I've heard somewhere Leinfors wrote the Bestiary

[leaden bridge]

yeah but whos to say they didnt write the bestiary based on it

we will never know

[spare pier]

It's clear some parts leaked into it but that's just because it works, really

Anyways I'm going now because Lucifer wants to keep playing Mewgenics

[young socket]

whar

[spare pier]

I'm saying I heard it

[leaden bridge]

i mean it doesnt. seem unbelievable

[young socket]

well i cant find any info on who wrote it anyway

[wanton pendant]

So all I'm hearing is that Mechanic is the Permafrost of Terraria.

[noble falcon]

No way
The mechanic is a billion year old wizard guy
I had no idea

[raven brook]

cmon hes not THAT old

[light linden]

...huh

I just had a thought

was the astral meteor the iron core of the star that became the infection?

[eager bluff]

no

[timber glacier]

Aren’t stars in cal just made of mana

[eager bluff]

because stars in calamity arent actual real life stars

they're mana

[light linden]

ik that

but where else could the metal have come from to create the astral ore?

[eager bluff]

condensed mana

like

it couldnt have come from the star anyways because there isnt iron in calamity stars

even the sun which is about as close to a real life star we know of in calamity doesnt have a core its just a big ball of primordial light

[timber glacier]

Maybe also the astral ore meteor might be tied to meteorite since they can be turned into eachother either by natural conversion or using a chlorophyte extractinator

[eager bluff]

and also it isnt just one star that became the astral

the astral is just something that happens when stars rot

[raven brook]

Not necessarily all of them but yeah

[wanton pendant]

Meteor is most likely just a normal large star that didn't fester.

Astral Meteor is what happens when it rots.

[timber glacier]

Yeah actually thats probably the case

Especially since if then meteorite is then tied to mana it makes sense why its used in a magic armour set as well, especially with its set bonus directly affecting how mana is used

[sinful adder]

Yes all of them?

[timber glacier]

Yeah aren’t all the stars we know of made of mana?

[sinful adder]

yes

unless you count the sun

which is special and maybe not a star

[timber glacier]

I’m pretty sure in calamity the sun isn’t a star at all iirc

Its made of primordial light isntead of like mana

[eager bluff]

as i said

even the sun which is about as close to a real life star as calamity gets isnt actually a real life star its a ball of primordial light

[flat berry]

Question, re reading the terminus monologue, who is actually the eye? Xeroc or the rests of xeratos's soul?

Cause it called yharon an old friend

[eager bluff]

well technically neither is the sigil

but the person talking to you is xeroc

[plucky juniper]

i mean

[flat berry]

So xeroc knew yharon before betraying the dragons and starting the massacre that extinguished them?

[eager bluff]

xeroc knew yharon yes

[plucky juniper]

the eye in the sky in boss rush is probably xeroc

[flat berry]

Math aint mathing, yharon was born in the lava post xeroc's ascension

[eager bluff]

no

[plucky juniper]

HE'S THE SAME GUY

[eager bluff]

yharon is the dragon of rebirth

[plucky juniper]

HE CANONICALLY REMEMBERS

[young socket]

yharons old as fuck he just rebirths

[plucky juniper]

HE'S THE PHEONIX. HE RESURRECTS

[flat berry]

Hmm interesting

[young socket]

also like no thats not how it works

[flat berry]

I knew he revives, but i tough he wasnt that old

[young socket]

if i paint a large painting, i dont get to say "thats me"

[plucky juniper]

i mean i dunno what else it is

[young socket]

its. a sigil. that they put in the sky.

[eager bluff]

its the primordial light sigil or something like that

[young socket]

its not literally xeroc

[eager bluff]

a coat of arms isnt one of the members of the family that coat of arms is for

and the thing in the background is basically a coat of arms but for primordial light

[plucky juniper]

fair

[visual kiln]

is it weird that i wish the mana = stars thing acted like an extension to irl cosmology instead of replacing it

[young socket]

planets exist

so there has to be some sort of normal cosmology

unless they too are just mana, but transformed

[visual kiln]

yeah but its implied that irl stars dont exist

which leads to questions like "what is the sun" or "where did the stuff that makes up terraria come from" n whatnot having no clear answers

[eager bluff]

the sun is a ball of magic light

[visual kiln]

yes its a ball of primordial light

[eager bluff]

wherever the stuff that makes up terraria came from isnt a relevant question to the story so it doesnt need to be answered

[visual kiln]

except that what primordial light is has like 0 answer at all

its sunlight yeah?

[eager bluff]

yeah

[visual kiln]

except that sunlight is light that comes from the sun

[eager bluff]

its magic light

[visual kiln]

so then what is the sun?

well its a ball of primordial light

aka sunlight

its like a closed loop of questions that all refer to each other as answers

[visual kiln]

n like this owuld not have been necessary if like this werent the case

bc like

then the sun is just a sun

n its light is magical

[eager bluff]

what is a cloud
well its a whole bunch of water in the sky
rain is water and it comes from clouds

[visual kiln]

nope

rain was not part of the cloud question

[young socket]

except that its not a closed loop. this is like saying "whats a chocolate bar" "if u melt it u get chocolate" "so a chocolate bar is gives out chocolate"

[visual kiln]

sunlight, primoridal light, and the sun form a closed loop of sorts

[visual kiln]

nope

"what is a chocolate bar" "oh its a bar of chocolate" "what is chocolate" [insert what answer for chocolate is]

the sun is primordial light and primordial light is sunlight

[eager bluff]

its a ball of light we dont know how it got there but we know that some of that light is leaking out and that is primordial light

[visual kiln]

im not asking how it got there tho im saying like

[dusk laurel]

not rlly nothing implies it, just never mentioned ever

[young socket]

well if u keep thinking primordial light can be dumbed down to sunlight ofc u think its cyclical

[visual kiln]

what the sun is is poorly defined n this wouldn't be an issue if u just allowed actual irl stars to exist

[visual kiln]

but thats what it is tho

every time i've seen ppl ask what primordial light is it gets answered with some variation of sunlight

[eager bluff]

because thats what it functions as

[young socket]

for example, if we replaced primordial light here it would be
"what is the sun" "oh its primordial light" "what is primordial light" [WE DONT KNOW]

[visual kiln]

exceptthe question of "what is primordial light" has had an answer before

n almost every time its been sunlight

[eager bluff]

functionally primordial light is sunlight its far easier to describe it as sunlight then it is to make something convoluted up

[visual kiln]

am i working off outdated information here

[young socket]

no!!! ur just forcing it to be cyclical!!!! saying "sun" and "sunlight" is the same!!!!!

[dusk laurel]

idk its just magic light from the object that illuminates the planet i dont see why its an issue to call it sunlight because oractically speaking what else would it do

[young socket]

so it just all comes down to "what is primordial light fundamentally"

[visual kiln]

no?

[young socket]

AND ITS WE DONT KNOW

[visual kiln]

im not saying sun and sunlight are the same

[eager bluff]

we call it sunlight because thats the analogue we have for it in real life thats what we can refer to it as

[visual kiln]

do u not see how "primordial light is light that comes from the sun" might lead to "what is the sun"

[visual kiln]

thats valid yeah

[young socket]

meow

[dusk laurel]

blows up tsuki

[visual kiln]

meow

[WE DONT KNOW] isnt a step that happens

[young socket]

no it hasnt

[eager bluff]

fundamentally we dont know what primordial light is but practically its just sunlight

[visual kiln]

meow

meow

[young socket]

thats not an answer to what makes primordial light special or different, its explaining its source

[visual kiln]

meow

[visual kiln]

yes exactly

thats my point

"what is the sun" "oh its primordial light" "what is primordial light" "primordial light is sunlight/light that comes from the sun" "ok what is the sun"

it makes it feel like an answer is there when it isnt

[eager bluff]

"what is the sun" "oh its primordial light" "what is primordial light" "idk it comes from the sun"

[visual kiln]

yeah

it makesit feel like the question "what is the sun" has an answer when it actually doesnt

[eager bluff]

in absence of a definition of what something is, describing where it comes from is often used

[visual kiln]

i think my point got lost in the sauce here

tldr i wish cal didnt like seemingly get rid of irl cosmology bc that means u need like alternate explanations for everything

like what the sun or moon are

which it doesnt rlly have

[spare pier]

I cannot stress enough how wrong you are and how I hate that this is how people respond to Cal Lore

Why do you people always immediately default to "if we don't know the answer there isn't one" instead of "we can't answer that with the information we have atm"

Specially when we have partly walked back on Calamity entirely redoing irl cosmology and have more of a mix between the two

[visual kiln]

oh so i am working off outdated information

[spare pier]

I already said here that stars aren't entirely made of mana

[visual kiln]

great!

(not annoyed at u btw

[sinful adder]

what

[spare pier]

Mana is still a fundamental ingredient to making stars but it's not the whole thing

[sinful adder]

oh huh

[visual kiln]

also my point was the questions of both "what is the sun" and "what is primordial light" have seemingly been answered already, except the answers given led to a loop of sorts, n that answering neither would be necessary if the answer of "oh its just a ball of hydrogen doing nuclear fusion stuff" was a valid answer

[long bloom]

sun is primordial light
primordial light is sunlight

yeah that's very circular with current info now that i think about it

[visual kiln]

if people have asked "what is primordial light" and gotten the answer "oh its sunlight" before then its fair to assume that that's the answer right

[long bloom]

it's kinda like saying "the sun is made out of sun"

[visual kiln]

like

[agile matrix]

"stars being made of partially mana" makes sense in my eyes given

mana crystals
Not Mana Crystal Things involving stars

[robust osprey]

the sun is made out of sunlight imo

[visual kiln]

3 important aspects of irl cosmology are the sun, the moon, and stars

[agile matrix]

by that logic though, doesnt that mean the sun is majorly mana or

or is it a different force

[visual kiln]

and 2 of 3 of those have explanations that arent the irl ones

so like

its fair to assume that cosmology got rewritten right? which leads to the questions of what everything is again

[eager bluff]

the sun isnt a star

[long bloom]

as far as we know it's 100% primordial light

[dusk laurel]

the sun is not the same as every other star

[agile matrix]

ahh i see

[visual kiln]

when answering those wasn't rlly necessary if u just for example said "oh fallen stars are just blobs of mana tht float in space n r visible from earth", then the question of "what is the sun" wouldn't be necessary to answer at all bc the question would answer itself to a degree

[long bloom]

the sun isn't a star though

no correlation

[agile matrix]

irl the sun is considered a star
in terraria however (Not Real Life) its a ball of primordial light

[long bloom]

in terraria it's also a star

[visual kiln]

it is???

[long bloom]

in calamity it's primordial Light

[long bloom]

what else

[visual kiln]

oh u mean

[agile matrix]

oh wel lyeah

[visual kiln]

nvm

[eager bluff]

in real life its not considered a star it definitionally is

[long bloom]

yeah it's like
the star

john star

[visual kiln]

joe star

[young socket]

jo jo

[visual kiln]

jojo advetu

[long bloom]

joe biden fix my marriage

[spare pier]

I mean quite simply we wanted to do different things, that's not insane

[visual kiln]

no

[agile matrix]

considered = Is, from how i meant to say it

[visual kiln]

no thats valid

[spare pier]

There are several stories that change cosmology because they want to

[west plume]

the sun is a star and it burns hydrogen. it just also happens to be magical

[visual kiln]

its valid to wanna change cosmology

[eager bluff]

"considered" implies that it doesnt fit the definition of star but is still lumped in with them anyways

[long bloom]

in calamity??

[visual kiln]

its just i wish it wasnt here bc the act of changing cosmology leads to questions that seemingly have circular or non-existent answers

the question of "whats a star" is extremely clear in its answer

[spare pier]

The sun is wonky in Cal

[agile matrix]

yea i meant to say "is" but considered fits the same way

[spare pier]

That's all I'm gonna say

[west plume]

big stars have regular matter and obey regular physics; they just also are magical. the sun has hydrogen and it burns it

[visual kiln]

but the question of "what is the sun" and (to a much much much lesser extent) "what is the moon" are less so that

[eager bluff]

the moon is still the moon

[long bloom]

again is this referring to the calamity universe

[west plume]

this is the cal universe

:(

[visual kiln]

oh

[long bloom]

whuh

[eager bluff]

there isnt anything majorly different about it

[west plume]

we had a big discussion about it in dev

since every star being pure magic makes no sense

[spare pier]

The moon just so happens to also be fucked up and do weird bullshit sometimes

[visual kiln]

why

[leaden bridge]

Oh boy really fun things being talked about today

[visual kiln]

wasnt magic being able to liek Become things a thing already

like isnt that what the astral and summons are

[west plume]

matter still exists and complex matter still exists, and it has to come from somewhere since it isn't magical in origin

[agile matrix]

does the theory of matter conservation exist in calamity

[leaden bridge]

I've already said enough about calamity cosmology so have fun i agree with syrup

[eager bluff]

us calling the moon evil isnt it being actually magic with a soul and thus the capability to be evil it just does weird things sometimes and we dont know why

[west plume]

the astral is an infection; it's mana infecting and influencing things

stars are made of mana and you can hold stars (made of magic) but mana and matter coexist in this setting

[visual kiln]

why are u no longer a pikmin i just noticed

[west plume]

nintendo sued them

[visual kiln]

oh

[long bloom]

sad

[leaden bridge]

they're celestia for a wonderful reason

[visual kiln]

excpt u said they arent made of pure magic

[west plume]

er. stars have Compositions and are a mixture of matter and mana, which is the same for every object i believe including terraria

[leaden bridge]

it's okay we mean like. Pfp

[visual kiln]

ah

nvm

[spare pier]

We have an internal agreed-upon cosmology document written down and it's going ingame eventually, it's honestly a high priority for me

[long bloom]

yippee

[west plume]

this guy is Magic. it isn't really a literal star, it's mana taking the shape of something representing a star. you can eat these to become more magical

this thing burns hydrogen and can kill you if you get too close

[spare pier]

Because by this point not only is basically 90% of it public but also so much is needed to understand the story and certain things that like

[long bloom]

oh so they're not literally stars from space anymore?

[spare pier]

Yeah

[visual kiln]

so they coexist

YAYYY

[spare pier]

No they're stars from space but they're a different kind of star

[leaden bridge]

See it was that easy lore fixed

#wholesome

[visual kiln]

coexist as in both types of objects exist in the same universe

[west plume]

it is a Star in Space but it is not a Star in the sense of being a celestial body

[long bloom]

so there's stars with more mana or more hydrogen content?

[eager bluff]

ok so whos gonna update the lore doc

[leaden bridge]

Dance party

[long bloom]

huh

[west plume]

regular stars also have mana and can be composed of entirely mana tho

[west plume]

as in the formation of it wasn't dictated by physics since it's a magical object

it's hard to explain

mana stars aren't rlly burning anything

[long bloom]

[eager bluff]

fallen stars are magic fuckery not physics based scientifically proven fuckery
regular stars are physics based scientifically proven fuckery with a bit of mana mixed in
if im understanding this correctly

[young socket]

fallen stars are basically the same, its actual space stars that got changed (ie, fallen stars are still only made of magic, but the large ones in space are a mix of mana and matter), if im understanding correctly

[visual kiln]

i had a rlly weird terminology thingy of like calling irl type stars hydrogen stars and cal type stars mana stars

[long bloom]

but they said fallen stars are also in space

[visual kiln]

if im reading syrup right they're moreso like 2 ends of a spectrum?

[eager bluff]

well yeah they arent atmospheric phenomena

[west plume]

Fallen Stars/Mana Stars

• Are made of almost entirely magic
• Take the shape of a ⭐ naturally
• Do not necessarily follow the laws of physics
• Kinda just float around as lumps of mana in space

Regular Stars

• Produce energy through fusion
• Can contain mana but it isn't their defining feature; they still follow physics
• Exist the same as in the IRL universe

[young socket]

yea they. they come from space

[west plume]

the sun is a Regular star

you cannot make it into a mana crystal

[spare pier]

Yes but all stars have mana anyways

[visual kiln]

mhm

like all things have a lil bit of uranium in them at all times

🙏

[west plume]

yeah

[spare pier]

I think stars can make up from 40% to 100% of a star

[visual kiln]

so like

[spare pier]

I'm killing myself

[spare pier]

I'm leaving that as is man

[visual kiln]

where would the sun be on this spectrum

then

[west plume]

it's a regular star

[visual kiln]

entirely on the regular side?

icicic

[west plume]

it has mana which can be influenced but it burns hydrogen and has the same emission spectra as the irl sun

[young socket]

we should have a cancer debuff that we can inflict with weapons made from plutonium (its canon to calamity rn)

[spare pier]

I think the sun is 75% mana but also thinking about it describing it as a percentage is misleading

[visual kiln]

n i imagine mana might be able to make stars much much smaller before they undergo nuclear fusion

[tropic oak]

the sun is a deadly laser

[long bloom]

so it's not made of primordial light anymore?

[eager bluff]

not anymore theres a blanket

[young socket]

i think its more so implying that primordial light is fucking

fusion

[visual kiln]

like making a giant thermonuclear explosion held together not by gravity but by the mana inside of it

[young socket]

or no

was it fission?

idfk

[west plume]

i don't think so and i don't feel good allowing things to be made of pure energy

[spare pier]

No, Primordial Light is something else entirely and we are not answering that here

It's magical in nature, though

[leaden bridge]

Do you think deus can slowly absorb energy from regular stars like those scifi stellar engines that absorb the fuel of a star i think that's how they eat bigger stars which they need to do as they grow larger

[visual kiln]

everything is pure energy if u think hard enough about it

[young socket]

damn

[young socket]

ur pure energy

[long bloom]

primordial light is still light emitted by the sun though, yes?

[young socket]

ur 200 calories

[west plume]

i don't think so. i think they dive in there and get the mana deep inside

[visual kiln]

ur tiny i have more energy than u

[spare pier]

Yes

[long bloom]

ok

[young socket]

ur tinier

[spare pier]

Primordial Light and Sunlight are synonyms

[leaden bridge]

deus outscales: old lore dog

[visual kiln]

OH thats why theyre made of metal!

or

why they look metal-y

[eager bluff]

yeah sure alright everybody accelerate aza to the speed of light

[leaden bridge]

#notsorry

[dusk laurel]

no

[visual kiln]

hmph

[eager bluff]

yeah deus has always done that even in old lore it outscaled dog

[young socket]

we should kill you imo

@ tofu please save deus already

[dusk laurel]

using the deus design as a source of info 😊

[visual kiln]

hmph

[tropic oak]

tofu will save deus

[visual kiln]

deus got deleted

i ate it

sorr gang

[young socket]

you got deleted

[eager bluff]

dog speechbubble

[young socket]

i fed you to the wolves

and to the fishes

[visual kiln]

nope

lgl wouldnt eat me

neither would

whose that one person

[young socket]

i fed you to the hydrochloric acid

[visual kiln]

oh

nope

i ated it

im immune

we are devolving

[young socket]

i fed you to the [insert other place where you would leave a dead body]

[eager bluff]

i feed you to the morgue

[young socket]

zombies 🙏

[visual kiln]

i wonder how small a sun u could make with mana

like

just by getting a bunch of hydrogen, causing a self sustaining fusion reaction, n then just casting a spell or smth so that it doesnt explode and instead just stays together

[west plume]

if they get too small they're like regular mana stars where they don't emit significant heat

[leaden bridge]

draedon sun reactor dude

The power of the sun in the palm of my hands

Woooooo

[visual kiln]

what if the calamity sun was entirely artificial

[young socket]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Helium_Flash

[leaden bridge]

zeratros dad put it there

[visual kiln]

john world soul

[young socket]

the sun suddenly plopped into existence and it was so strong it shattered the world soul

dont tell the cal devs that i said this cuz its real lore

[spare pier]

You will be real lore soon

[dusk laurel]

i cant support this

👎

[visual kiln]

ok basically someone did surgery on the moon and ripped out its world soul

now its soul is the sun

[dusk laurel]

no its evil

the moon invented capitalism

and social hierarchies

[visual kiln]

oh

[young socket]

yayy i will be real in calamity

[visual kiln]

whats my lore

[young socket]

dead

[visual kiln]

oh

[noble falcon]

But then you came back
Because dragonfolly borrowed your copy of Donkey Kong Bananza and you need it back

Only to realize Yharim stole your Switch 2 while you were briefly deceased
So now you have to kill him and he’ll drop it as a decorative item to play dk bananza

[tight jasper]

so we the good guys right?

[timber glacier]

If you mean like the terrarian being good, then they are fully up to the player’s interpretation, so you can either see them as good or bad or whatever

[sinful adder]

It's assumed that the player is good, and by default your actions will mostly be seen that way. You can do bad things but you're physically incapable of being as bad as yharim because of the sheer amount of stuff yharim did

[tight jasper]

nice

[agile matrix]

our actions are like

neutrally good

we dont have a "The Terrarian Is You!" sticker but basically

whatever reason you killed the bosses for, thats up to you

the things that caused are not and some are good some are bad

providence was legally "wicked" but you're also fueling yharim (big bad evil) goals

[noble falcon]

Where does killing queen slime for the diva town slime fall on the morality scale

[agile matrix]

did you wanna kill slime god or did you want cool loot

(as of current, Queen Slime is Slime God in a crystalline prison)

syrup speak yo words

i see you Lurking and being a Creature

[west plume]

morally its up to you. objectively no. wall of flesh dying makes the world worse for the forseeable future

it depends on what bosses you kill and your justifications for doing so

[agile matrix]

i personally align the avg terrarian with Neutral Good, but you can really do whatever the hell you want

[west plume]

For The Most Part calamity is a setting where the world be better overall without your involvement with the exceptions of killing providence and DoG

[agile matrix]

and yharim Fake

[west plume]

yharim was gonna die anyway

[agile matrix]

also wouldnt the evils2? they're not very nice

[sinful adder]

is that global or local?

[west plume]

global

[sinful adder]

Are you sure?

[west plume]

you could have just become a rice farmer for a year or two and yharim would have died of old age

[agile matrix]

i know War focuses primarily on the bloodshed aspect of it rather than battle to solve dispute

and Dogma just isnt very nice

[raven brook]

i'm not sure if i agree because theres alot of boss kills i think are objectively good to do
evil2, ravager, providence + guardians, devourer, mech bosses all i think the world is far better without

[sinful adder]

WoF spawns more corruption and hallow, and seems to make some monsters stronger

[noble falcon]

The infection is not our fault, we don’t got nothing to do with that

[raven brook]

I think the worst 2 things the terrarian does objectively is WoF and getting ML to come back

[west plume]

evils and evils2 aren't dogma and war, they're just kinda manifestations that can't really escape their host biome

[raven brook]

Also PBG

[west plume]

if you left them there they probably would have eventually receeded and died naturally over the course of a very long period of time

[agile matrix]

i specifically mean boss: evil2

[raven brook]

and you could argue we deal with the astral per the plans for deus's future rework

[noble falcon]

As it currently stands the timing of the astral meteor is just coincidence

[agile matrix]

those are like weak filtrations but moreso culminations of the guys rather than Ravager which is a really really bad surgery

[sinful adder]

Killing WoF is bad but like a majority of the stuff that happens as a result can be dealt with. I usually use the Clentaminator and tunnel diggings to contain the infection

[agile matrix]

(metaphor)

[noble falcon]

And sunflowers, don’t forget those

[west plume]

killing ravager is a good thing if only because you prevent it form suffering further

[sinful adder]

Everything else is like mostly fine

[raven brook]

Not only is it a mercy kill but its laso kind of a mindless murder machine now

I think its generally good to not have it roaming around

[agile matrix]

god of blood is Bad for the health

[raven brook]

lest it, haha

it,

[west plume]

i don't think everyone has a clentaminator and significant time to contain the brand new coating of essence their home has on the other side of the continent

[raven brook]

ravages

[agile matrix]

haha jonatan

gas leak

[west plume]

unless you want to spend your time going around and being The Essence Biome Exterminator for the rest of your life I guess

[raven brook]

I think given the heartlands are probably far less inhabited than any other continents IF the essence is mostly just around it then while i do still think its a bad thing its not so bad taht it outweights the effects of killing someone like providence

[spare pier]

Killing WoF is good on the long run, that thing had to go eventually

[agile matrix]

far Less? i thought the heartlands were. Heh. The Heart of the Planet

[sinful adder]

There isn't extra essence on the other side of the continent

[raven brook]

y3eah but they got dealt with 500 blows of crusade hell

and now have uh, alot of Bad Things on them

[sinful adder]

WoF releases single, localized beams of godly essence

[agile matrix]

well i mean yeah but what are the other continents

[sinful adder]

And also like our entire continent has no remaining large civilizations

[spare pier]

Also letting Yharim die of old age is the worst fucking outcome you can have for the story

[raven brook]

wdym by what are they

[agile matrix]

i know one is like. Fire

and Bad Shit

[raven brook]

They're mostly just normal continents i think

[agile matrix]

i dont remmeber what the others are like

[raven brook]

i dont think we know naything about them much

[spare pier]

The player's involvement is bad for other reasons but your actions are overall mostly bevenolent, though reckless

[west plume]

i cannot refute this without revealing too much information so i'll let it slide

[raven brook]

Idk if theres any specifications on this

[agile matrix]

shame. i wanna go to them </3

[sinful adder]

The player can reduce the total amount of corruption, making things better than when they started

[agile matrix]

calamitas i think kinda makes note of this

[raven brook]

I do think theres probably still some civilization left in the heartlands

[west plume]

the player doesn't cleanse everything they affect is the issue and they also aren't obligated to cleanse it so it becomes everyone's problem

[sinful adder]

Oh so there's unrevealed information that contradicts this?

[west plume]

Yes

[raven brook]

but i also think its pro bably by now some of the least inhabited and stable continents for people

[sinful adder]

Huh

[west plume]

the heartlands aren't empty

[spare pier]

I mean of course there is come on now

[sinful adder]

Well that changes things

A little, but not much

[agile matrix]

i mean theres roaming civilizations

goblins, pirates

[spare pier]

The Heartlands obviously have a shitload of civilizations still up and running just fine

[raven brook]

due to the fact it was the haha Heart of the crusade and how much horrible shit it has like the evil biomes, necromancy, draedon machines roaming around, probably leftover godseeker activity, the fucking Plague, god knows what else man

[agile matrix]

nomadics

[sinful adder]

It would certainly be better if we could actually see these

[agile matrix]

the plague is mostly localized non

[sinful adder]

We know of literally zero of these unless you count the nomadic goblin tribe

[west plume]

wait a bit

[spare pier]

Ok "shitload" might be pushing it

[spare pier]

They aren't even from the Heartlands

[agile matrix]

its In The Juglne and thats kinda it

[raven brook]

i think shitload dosent sound right i think itd be more like. a few here and there that survived the Torment and probably aren't really doing particularly well now

the great depression but its heartlands

[agile matrix]

isnt the Sunken Sea kinda civilizationish? not yknow. Ilmeris Tier

but still kinda there

[spare pier]

Yeah but there are still a decent bit

The Heartlands aren't desolate

[west plume]

they have like 30 people alive there

[agile matrix]

theres still Creatures that are social enough

in groups no less

[west plume]

r u gonna talk to a clam

[raven brook]

theres like

scavengers

and a few illmeran survivors

[agile matrix]

lil tents and probably the concept of sharing

[raven brook]

hardly counts for a civilization imo

[agile matrix]

civilization :)

a village is still a civilization in my eyes, however quaint or scant (is that the word?) it may be

[raven brook]

at most id call it a community but even then the scavengers are kinda just afaik moving in temporarily to search for artifacts and resources

[west plume]

there are established civilizations in the heartlands, and quite a lot of people, they're mostly just localized and the heartlands switched from being diverse to factional in a short period of time. the vast majority of people are in yharim's empire and vassal states/autonomous zones surrounding or within yharim's empire. this will be elaborated upon in-game in the future

[agile matrix]

yea theres the issue of We Dont See That Shit

[west plume]

okay. it will be elaborated upon in-game in the future

[sinful adder]

Alright. If you're going to be making it objectively bad to progress the game, can you add ways for us to fix the problems we cause, or avoid causing them?

[agile matrix]

but also having a player go to Yharim Camp #1051 ft. His Generals sounds Painful

[agile matrix]

i dont mean this as a diss. i mean this as a "this too shall pass, we must simply wait for Peak"

[sinful adder]

While still playing most of the game

[west plume]

outside of yharim's empire there are concentrations of people but they are sparse and yharim's empire has been running interference for trade, so you won't get any azafure type important city states

[raven brook]

I mean right now it already is like that for the simple reason of

you dont explore the entire map

you will never be able to explore the entire heartlandian continent ever

because its a videogame that cant reflect the size of a entire continent

[agile matrix]

thaaats not true.

just have three hundred devs burn out all at once, in Calamity: Retoasted

in 3D

[raven brook]

boils you

stew

[agile matrix]

ah but you see. No

[west plume]

participating in calamity mod and progressing in it means that you will take actions that negatively impact other people, organisms, individuals, environments. this does not mean you are a bad person, necessarily, but not everything you do is totally justifiable and not all of it is in the best interest of people who aren't you

[agile matrix]

shoulda said aha

im a fool

[raven brook]

So inevitably i think some of the essence dispersed by WoF will affect places we cant see, even if not necessarily in the form of biomes

Beings absorbing it and mutating and such is still a thing also

[west plume]

the only thing you can really do to not cause any direct harm is to not play, but by doing that you are not reaching your full potential and preventing a bunch of very direct harm caused by the worst of the worst in the mod

[sinful adder]

Bleh :/

[agile matrix]

guy going home to his dog and seeing the dog now Cerberus

[west plume]

it's a cruel world. what can i say

[agile matrix]

it is impossible to live life without at least a little strife being indirectly applied to your fellow man

[raven brook]

I still think unless HAHA GET IT GET IT GET CRUEL WORLD DO YOU

anyways.

I think looking at the lineup of bosses that you Need to kill to reach yharim and all that and looking exclusively at that the Terrarian would have done more of a net positive than a net negative not accounting for motivations or ideology or anything but there'd still be some harm done

[agile matrix]

like if i eat a sandwich, thats one less sandwich for Anyone Else
am i gonna be very sad about someone not being able to eat a sandwich? no! thats too much selfless thinking and that is destructive !!!!
i will eat my sandwich and Enjoy it

[sinful adder]

Ok yeah. I still think it could be a little better. I would like to see at least some ways to right some of the wrongs we may do

[west plume]

like, you can prevent the wall of flesh from spraying essence all over the continent but in exchange your player never gets to kill providence and prevent her from deep frying cities in the absence of dedicated god killers

For Example

[spare pier]

The player is like a billionaire. It doesn't matter what you do with the power you have, the fact is that you fucked a lot of shit to get there

[raven brook]

i feel like providence is like

singlehandedly

the best thing the player does

[agile matrix]

now if someone actively could not get a sandwich, no matter if i spared it from tummytown or not, THEN your choice to provide for them is chosen

[raven brook]

killing her i mean

[west plume]

yes

[agile matrix]

i swapped between first and second person. ignore it, my point still stands

[raven brook]

providence is extremely powerful and a global threat with a fairly large influence with her cult/army and all that which just goes around killing a shit ton of people

sure shes not the single strongest being you fight

but i think shes overall the one where killing her just does the most absolute good for the world

[west plume]

the ultimate issue with calamity is that things are just fucked and there's going to need to be friction for change. that isn't your fault

that's the point of the story also

[spare pier]

^

[raven brook]

shes kind of a shittier yharim in a way in the sense the threat she poses is kinda like the threat yharim posed but shittier

cuz she aint as strong or charismatic as yhraim

[spare pier]

You can do great good but you aren't gonna be a hero in shining armor

[agile matrix]

isnt that DoG Yharim Xeroccc

[raven brook]

and her army aint as big

[graceful warren]

Yharim Vs Providence 1v1 who would win

[spare pier]

You have to get your hands dirty to do the job

[raven brook]

is that even a question bro

[agile matrix]

is Yharon in the area

[west plume]

yharim

[raven brook]

whos the final boss

[agile matrix]

idk i skipped prov on the way up

[graceful warren]

I mean its kinda crazy that they never ended up fighting. Is there a lore reason for that

[west plume]

yharim coming out after the fight wearing a flaming moth wing (the fight lasted like 30 minutes)

[trim edge]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Guide:Skipping_Wall_of_Flesh

[agile matrix]

also back when i had a Very Nice Discussion abt yharon here, i did make mental and maybe verbal note that Yharon and Providence have similar yet distinct endgames

[sinful adder]

Provi is good at running away

[graceful warren]

I mean I know there army probably clashed

[raven brook]

yeah its explained ingame

rovidence can just teleport away, thats what

[west plume]

Providence teleports

[raven brook]

She shows up blows people up and leaves

if it wasnt for that yharim wouldve killed her a long, long time ago

[west plume]

She knows that if she gets caught out then she'll just die, so she doesn't take direct and visible actions because she does not want to die

[spare pier]

There's some extra bullshit to it but that's a good summary

[sinful adder]

Please explain

[agile matrix]

from what i remember, Yharon really wants to move shit Back to when they had control over shit, while Providence wants to move shit back to Lava And Rocks And No Life Ever

[graceful warren]

So in other worlds Providence ain't shit

[sinful adder]

Yharon wants to kill the gods and leave some people alive I guess

[agile matrix]

both would require a lot of effort and a lot of force, both of which kinda just Destroy The World

[spare pier]

She's still shit she just knows that she's not THE shit

[agile matrix]

Yharim wants total deicide

[sinful adder]

She's still like probably the fourth or fifth strongest god

[west plume]

yharon doesn't care about the people as long as the gods are dead :p

[spare pier]

You can be shit and have a much larger turd in your vicinity that'll fucking nuke you without a second thought

[raven brook]

providence is still post moon lord and has like a army and is a global threat that Kills Alot Of People

She's on the upper echelon of strenhgt of hte world

but compared ot some other guys yeah

[agile matrix]

all i know is that Yharon is really up his own feathers abt being in control of stuff

[raven brook]

shed die

imean again

just look at progression,

its self explanatory

[graceful warren]

Fair but Yharim is because calamity Kratos

[raven brook]

yharim is the final boss

providencei s a post moon lord boss, fairly early on post moon ord

its incredibly obvious which is stronger

[agile matrix]

storm weaver after providence 🤑

[raven brook]

dont diss my boy

[agile matrix]

i was gonna say signus but signus actually apparently has aura in the lore, right now he's just chopped

[raven brook]

hes gonna weaver all over the place when its weaving time

[spare pier]

Providence is extremely close to what I consider Calamity's standard power ceiling

Being DoG

[graceful warren]

I figured Yharim would win. I just didn't realize lore wise how bad of an stomped it is. Bro just runs away

[raven brook]

storm weaver is like almost guaranteed to jsut be Devourer of Gods Alpha Version so i mean

it does make sense, itd be strong

[spare pier]

You aren't getting much stronger than DoG unless you have some insane shit up your ass

If I'm not mistaken there are less than 10 characters who are stronger than him so yeah

[agile matrix]

Note: We Get Some Wacky Shit from the Funny Land

[raven brook]

not alpha as in like some sigma bullshit alpha as in like early testing version

[simple tangle]

storm weaver cooks dog

trust

[graceful warren]

Honestly an animated Calmility series following Yharim story would be peak

[agile matrix]

🐺 🌙 🌳

[raven brook]

Let me coutn how many i remember uhhh

[agile matrix]

it would, comedically, be quite different than how yharim phrases it

[trim edge]

would dog watch sigma edits unironically

[spare pier]

Yharon, Shakidou, Silva, Calamitas, Yharim, Zeratros and Xeroc, Exo Mechs are weird to count but you can do it

Can also count Noxus and Moon Lord if you want

[agile matrix]

"I WILL NOT BE A CHUD!!!"

[simple tangle]

wheres old duke at

[spare pier]

So exactly 10 being as generous as possible

[graceful warren]

Yeah far but that's what would make it good. Since Yharim views everything he does a just. Having a outside unbiased view would be awsome

[agile matrix]

old duke is old and racist and i think really long

[raven brook]

Xeroc, Noxus, Fovos, Yharim, Yharon, Zeratros, Silva, Shakidou, Calamitas, Draedon/Exos

I like to think that Braelor is about tied with him so there's that

[trim edge]

wait how strong is shakidou

[simple tangle]

is old duke a worm...................

[trim edge]

is there anything about him ingame rn

[spare pier]

Between Yharon and Calamitas

[agile matrix]

second strongest b4 xeroc iirc?

[west plume]

Episode 1. Yharim burns down a village while the bound villagers watch and are cut down one by one by soldiers
Episode 2. Yharim burns down a village while the bound villagers watch and are cut down one by one by soldiers. He then beheads a god in front of all of their followers
Episode 3. Yharim burns down a village while the bound villagers watch and are cut down one by one by soldiers. He is wearing a belt with the shrunken heads of slain gods while sawing off a god's head

[agile matrix]

not sure but most of his stuff seems to be based around eastern asia

[raven brook]

Episode 4. Yharim grills a steak and has barbecue with Yharon and Godseekers 13, 25 and 31

[spare pier]

Second strongest God, yeah

[agile matrix]

i headcanon him as a lung dragon

[spare pier]

You could maybe count Silva but she's weird

[timber glacier]

Isn’t silva kind of immortal

[raven brook]

i do think OD is gonna be a lung but i hope he does a take on a lung that isnt actually serpentine and more so just has lung elements

[graceful warren]

So basically a Mongolia empire documentary

[agile matrix]

silva does the yharon thing where she doesnt really die

[raven brook]

not gonna lie for the single reason i dont want him to be a worm boss

[spare pier]

Silva on her own isn't that strong the fact is that she'll easily make any character she's fighting alongside 10 times more dangerous

[raven brook]

i KNOW i KNOW you can make him a cool and uniue worm boss gameplay wise

[agile matrix]

elaborate?

[raven brook]

i KNOW that but please dude itd be so fucked

[agile matrix]

calamity: all worm

YuH's mod

[raven brook]

He can have a more western bodyplan while having elements from eastenr dragons such as the antlers, mane or general facial structure per eample

[trim edge]

devourer of bloodworms

[graceful warren]

Worms can be interesting.

[raven brook]

yes

i know

i have said that

[graceful warren]

Just like EoW is not

[agile matrix]

having the face of an ancient chinese dragon and then the body of Smaug is

[raven brook]

it does not matter to me because even if they're interesting there's too many damn worms 😭

[spare pier]

Like, she would probably lose to all five major Post ML Bosses but make her support Braelor and you got a character who'll shit on literally everyone and probably go toe to toe with Yharim

[agile matrix]

a Choice. mentally.

[raven brook]

EoW is more interesting than 80% of modded worm bosses inlcuidng every single calmaity worm rn except DoG, maybe

i havent fought dog but ik his new fight is really good so probably him