lore-discussion

[terse moss]

Like how does one defeat such an individual

[west plume]

Range

[terse moss]

Oh, just jumpings

Wait thats so cute

Bro is stanced up

[west plume]

It's not terribly difficult to deal with a psychic hazard knowing they're psychic I don't think

[terse moss]

I suppose

[west plume]

Gods aren't omniscient and you can use their human/dragon failings against them

Even if they have unreasonable amounts of power

[terse moss]

Did humans have the technology to kill something that big from that far away?

A ballista wouldn't do it

you would need like a missile lol

[west plume]

you could also just like. have a volley of archers sit 500 feet away and shoot arrows over a mountain

i'm pretty sure Mind doesn't come with regeneration powers

[terse moss]

But if you can see them, presumably they can also see you, unless you kill them in one blow

and I assume the dargons (if Yharon is anything to go by) are quite tanky

Idk if arrows would do anything

You fire like 8000 wooden arrows and he is still fine

it would take millions

[west plume]

yharon is tanky because he's a trained warrior. i don't know if every dragon is unreasonably tanky

[hollow pivot]

Trebuchets take a while but they can throw things away.

[terse moss]

Sure. The draogn gets hit by one, it shatters its shoulder or something, now it knows you are tehre and you get turned to dust

[west plume]

how?

[terse moss]

Unless it is like a direct head shot

[terse moss]

not it knows you are there and can use its domain

[west plume]

the mind dragon turns you to dust by looking at you from a mile away? be real

[terse moss]

It can stop you from firing again

the fight is equally over

[west plume]

can it stop 500 soldiers from firing again?

[hollow pivot]

Could use cannons and use magically light cannon balls. Could cannons fire aerialite?

[terse moss]

Oh are they volume limited

[west plume]

i mean, that's my question to you

[terse moss]

Well idk

Like is there a limit to the number/size of targets

[west plume]

is the mind dragon unreasonably busted in your opinion? maybe they'd defeat one person or a group of people, but how about a band of plotting, angry humans determined to get their hands on a soul?

[terse moss]

if so then sure, a large enough army would eventually win

After hundreds of casualties, maybe more

[west plume]

like, every auric dragon except for one died eventually and that one only didn't die Permanently because he's immortal

[west plume]

this is p much how it happened for the most part

[terse moss]

Fair enough ig

get that bag king

Imagine being in the army and seeing 500 of your friends get turned to ash by a dragon made of flame, jsut so taht your queen can get stronger so that she can kill you instead

[hollow pivot]

Do dragons need to sleep?

[west plume]

yes

[hollow pivot]

I thought Dragon of Flame was only 4 people?

[terse moss]

But they can jsut sleep in the aerie I assume

[west plume]

yes

[terse moss]

But like how would 4 people win

[long bloom]

they were very buff

[terse moss]

4 random guys vs the personification of fire

[west plume]

providence and her gfs were a very specialized group and the flame dragon was alone and not quite a master of flame

[terse moss]

Is every human just goated with the sauce, and the NPC's are just throwing?

[hollow pivot]

The Profaned Guardians were all women?

[terse moss]

Like I cant tell if humans are supposed to be human level or like actual monsters

[long bloom]

are

[terse moss]

I think were is fine because we killed them lol

[hollow pivot]

You should know there are definitely some strong people like pre-blessing Yharim and Braelor.

[hollow pivot]

I have no idea how strong Permafrost was.

[west plume]

providence was a trained warrior and so were her cohorts. strong humans are not unusual in calamity mod

i think 4 highly trained and motivated humans could take down a Lone dragon

[terse moss]

I assumed they were exceptions tho. Braelor got buffed by silva, and Yharim by Yharon

[west plume]

the only reason they didn't before is there was no reason to stop that dragon from just being reborn

[terse moss]

not super indicative or larger trends

I guess permafrost too

[west plume]

the player character is an excessively powerful terrarian

:p

[terse moss]

Sure, but we got a bunch of gear and buffs and killed gods to get that strong

Does every random miner have 400 hp from life crystals and stuff?

[west plume]

yharim is using a bunch of gear and buffs

[terse moss]

Like is everyone jsut jacked

[hollow pivot]

Also don't forget technology exists and magical metals.

[hollow pivot]

If people can make wulfrum I'm sure they can make something stronger.

[terse moss]

Yeah, but that was mostly Draedon with the technological monopoly. Isn't everyone else like vaguely medeval at that time

[hollow pivot]

Wulfrum is not medieval.

[terse moss]

Fair enough

But that was 850 years later

[west plume]

Well, basically everyone strong in the setting is using 'gear and buffs' except for like the archmage who studied for a ridiculously long time to become a talented mage

[terse moss]

so like yeah

[hollow pivot]

Permafrost is just a nerd.

[terse moss]

Tech progressing from medeval to drones in 850 years makes sense

Basically what we did

[hollow pivot]

Oh yeah don't forget people can import from Azafure.

[terse moss]

Is Azafure more advanced?

[west plume]

magic has always existed and it has always been possible to imbue weapons and armor with magic which is likely what the old humans did

[terse moss]

I know they were like vaguely industrial

But Azafure also got torched

[west plume]

azafure got torched recently, as in like last 10-15 years

[hollow pivot]

Brimstone Elemental was like SCal level at that point.

[terse moss]

I mean I guess if generation after generation poured mana into the same artifact, it could kill something big

[long bloom]

@west plume fym thumbs up

she wasn't that strong

[terse moss]

i don't understand why Brimstone elemental is stronger than the life elemental after perfectly ascending

[long bloom]

unless it changed

[hollow pivot]

I think Brimstone has more offensive power.

[hollow pivot]

Kinda fire's whole thing.

[terse moss]

But that much

thats an insane gulf

[hollow pivot]

Do keep in mind Silva got killed at least twice.

[terse moss]

and by that logic, should something like the earth elemental be super tanky?

[hollow pivot]

🤷‍♂️

[long bloom]

earth elemental isn't an actual elemental

[terse moss]

The brimmstone elemental is stronger in all respects

[long bloom]

it's a robot basically

[terse moss]

Or the sand ones

whatever they are

What could've shattered an elemental that physically tanky

[west plume]

wasn't this public lore?

well, the first part

[long bloom]

perhaps they broke apart by themselves

[hollow pivot]

I was explaining my reasoning for why the Terrarian might absorb some brimstone energy.

[west plume]

i know

[west plume]

but in response to this

[long bloom]

yes that's public lore

[hollow pivot]

I'm pretty sure that's all in-game lore.

[long bloom]

it does not mean brimmy was as strong as scal

she probably did a lot of training with permafrost

[hollow pivot]

I said around SCal level.

[long bloom]

no

[hollow pivot]

Like is a synonym for around in that context.

[long bloom]

she also wasn't around scal level

based on what we know

and other dev statements

again, unless it changed

[raven brook]

Ca,a jtas[

r

oh my god

[west plume]

caajtas

[long bloom]

😭

[raven brook]

this is fucked up

i feel to embarassed ot even say what i wanted to say now

how did i typo that badly

[terse moss]

"can spell" btw

[long bloom]

r

[light linden]

hi cheese

[raven brook]

ok what i was gonna say is that calamitas absorbing the power of the brimstone elemental is public yea we just dont know the exact circumstances of how she did it

[raven brook]

helo

[light linden]

insert reminder about fish here

[west plume]

i think stronger than in-game brimstone elemental. i don't know the details of the during-crusade permafrost interactions to say if calamitas got tutored that much by him

[raven brook]

i told you ill do it tmr

[hollow pivot]

You'd think Wizardy would be a slow craft to learn even with a great teacher.

[terse moss]

How strong is permafrost? I know he is knowledgeable but what is his like raw output

[light linden]

yes but tomorrow is also soon

but anyways

[raven brook]

its midnight for me

timezones

[light linden]

in a related topic

[long bloom]

yeah obviously brimmy was stronger before
just not that obscenely strong

[light linden]

y'all think there're any fish affected by the plague?

[long bloom]

plaguefish 👍

[west plume]

i think calamitas is stronger than brimmy by burning the candle too fucking fast but i think that brimmy could have gotten similar output if she wanted to go back to sleep faster

[dusk laurel]

yes?

[hollow pivot]

Piranhas?

[raven brook]

cant wait for the new plague enemy the evil arapaima

[dusk laurel]

theres no reason nor evidence for this to not be the case

[west plume]

oh, yeah. fish, people who rely on the local aquifer, local wildlife

[raven brook]

theres fish in the jungle, the plague is in the jungle

[terse moss]

fih

[long bloom]

🐟

[hollow pivot]

Would the nanodroids want to go in water?

[long bloom]

that's just the arapaima

[light linden]

I'm asking because I wonder what plans the angler would have for a plague fish

[raven brook]

itd be funny if we got a new angler quest fish for the jungle thats just a plaguefish

[hollow pivot]

Actually Draedon probably waterproofs all his things.

[west plume]

no, a lot of draedon stuff is rusted the fuck out

[thick slate]

theres just absolutely no way the nanobots arent waterproof

[raven brook]

i doubt machines that are designed to infiltrate the bodies of living beings which notably have alot of water content on em would be the sort of machine that would short-circuit on exposure to water

[light linden]

it'd be hard to make a virus that doesn't like water

[hollow pivot]

It's an artificial plague not an organic one.

[light linden]

and?

[thick slate]

also viruses dont need water

[hollow pivot]

What do they use for fuel?

[long bloom]

it's still modeled after a virus

[light linden]

that'd be like making food that dissolves when someone tries to eat it

[hollow pivot]

That'd be hilarious if it does it before reaching the stomach acid.

[west plume]

viruses need media in which to spread and the plague makes things ooze liquid on purpose so you could probably guess that it has water based transmission and is therefore waterproof

[raven brook]

I hope whenever the plague stuff gets revised the enemy designs lean a bit more into biomechanical body horror, right now they really are almost all just what if enemy but it now has a different palette and, green goop

body horror by itself is already explored alot i mean theres like

[west plume]

i don't think that draedon creations in general are waterproof because it isn't required for everything and draedon sees things by utilitarian purpose rather than brand features apple style

[raven brook]

corruption, crimson, ravager and associated content

but plague is a bit of a unique flavour of it

due to the mechanical aspect

which i think could make for some cool designs

[thick slate]

draedon owns an android

[long bloom]

save us plague minibiome

[west plume]

draedon fucking hates google

[light linden]

I still think depicting the plague in a way akin to the symbiotes from marvel would be cool

[thick slate]

but ravager

already does that

[long bloom]

nah that's ravager

yeah lmao

[raven brook]

thats kinda losing the mechanical aspect of it, isnt it

[light linden]

...?

[thick slate]

he is literally a symbiote

[terse moss]

Draedon steals your data because he is interested in your daily activities, not to sell it

[thick slate]

like hes gloopy

and he changes his appendages into weapons

[light linden]

symbiotes can be techno organic

[hollow pivot]

Does Draedon do planned-obsolescence?

[raven brook]

all the symbiotes ive seen just look like big scary goopy dudes

[terse moss]

Nah, he has too much pride in his work

[thick slate]

did u read what cheese said dude

[long bloom]

shapeshifting flesh

[light linden]

e.g. venom can turn part of himself into a functional rocket launcher

[terse moss]

What a peak design

[long bloom]

[west plume]

he does planned obsolescence in the sense that he does plan to sunset his machines but he doesn't do planned obsolescence in the sense that they break on purpose

all of the labs are rusty and broken up but they still Function because they were designed to Function for the given period of time the labs were planned to exist and nothing else

[light linden]

tbf marvel has had a bad habit of that

[hollow pivot]

It seems really easy to break the spine of the Ravager, or its legs.

[thick slate]

i mean

they are a species

[raven brook]

more of a "I know i will eventually make a better version of this" and less of a "I will intentionally make it so this will fail in due time for profit or whatever"

[long bloom]

until it reforms in .3 seconds

[raven brook]

unrealted i still think bbloodflare gear looks delectable

👍

[light linden]

symbiotes start out as goop but as a whole they change themselves with each new host in hopes of becoming the perfect partner

[west plume]

draedon also doesn't need such things as profit because he can just send burrowers out to passively collect resources and other droids to automatically refine them

[raven brook]

It looks like biscuits and jam to me

[terse moss]

Draedon is an honorable stem bro I feel

[raven brook]

I want to eat it

[hollow pivot]

Has Draedon figured out how to atomically duplicate matter?

[west plume]

no

[raven brook]

I wouldn't call him honorable

[light linden]

problem is getting really unlucky with their first hosts can cause immense issues

[hollow pivot]

Sucks for him Ig

[west plume]

i don't think draedon has figured out how to create matter from thin air but you can kinda already do it with magic i guess

[light linden]

venom bonded to murderous alien which lead to him having murderous tendencies for years

[terse moss]

In the sense that he has pride in his work and tries to make things better and actually further knowledge

[raven brook]

Well he isn't particularly motivated by alturism

[west plume]

the issue is that mana -> matter isn't Matter from Nothing and mana is finite for people who aren't gods

[heavy zenith]

When did chrysadia fall as a civilization

[light linden]

carnage was born and immediately bonded to an insane serial killer

[raven brook]

He's not intentionally making things better,

its just kind of a byproduct of his directive

[thick slate]

thats why carnage da goat

[long bloom]

anyway look at these rav attack concepts

[long bloom]

850 years ago

[hollow pivot]

Does he get machines that can process mana or hire wizards?

[thick slate]

yess i was looking for these

[terse moss]

I just mean he isn't intentinally like "scamming" people. He is like lawful neutral kinda.

[long bloom]

when fovos fucking obliterated it

[raven brook]

Whether Draedon is evil or not is kind of a philosophical debate due to the fact he is an AI without the same sort of free will a person has but one thing for sure is that he is immoral

[light linden]

and it has possibly permanently damaged his mental state

[terse moss]

I guess respectable might be a better word

[west plume]

he has machines that process mana already (see exo mechs and exo prisms/miracle matter)

[light linden]

anyways off topic

[hollow pivot]

I thought Sea Prisms was just regular energy?

[raven brook]

He dosen't scam you because there is no reason for him to do that, but if in some potential hypothetical scenario scamming you somehow would be like the best possible choice for him to progress with his research he'd do it

[west plume]

what is 'regular' energy?

[light linden]

been curious, do we know of any diseases other than the plague in the calamity world?

[west plume]

electricity?

[hollow pivot]

It was the goddess of Electricity that died.

[raven brook]

Mana is kind of a fundamental part of the world

It's hard to not interact with it

[heavy zenith]

Chrysadia held Storm Weaver in infamy, but then how did Storm Weaver slip through the DoG portal when he did? He slipped through the portal like mid-Crusades

[raven brook]

The idea that "science" and "magic" are seaprate dosent really work that well

[hollow pivot]

Draedon Social Experiments would be crazy.

[raven brook]

The line is blurred very easily when sciences interact with mana and magic is just a form of science

[long bloom]

that is a very good plothole question

[raven brook]

Like Draedon's machines ain't doing allat without using magic

[heavy zenith]

Real

[hollow pivot]

Chrysadia have a portal to the distortion clearly.

[hollow pivot]

Or are good friends with Signus.

[thick slate]

i feel like sickness still exists

[light linden]

It likely does but I was thinking specifics

[raven brook]

i mean it definitely does, we dont really know of any specific ones though

i guess you could count like

astral inffection ?

[hollow pivot]

Bacteria not existing would be crazy.

[thick slate]

yea

[long bloom]

sulphuric poisoning i guess

[raven brook]

depends on ur definition of sickness/diasease but if ur counting the plague, then

[light linden]

I could see diseases from the underworld or sulphurous sea being especially devastating

[thick slate]

true

[west plume]

this is true, but sea prisms are otonilou's stored essence. they're a magical artifact that produces unlimited energy. i think exo prisms (and by extension, miracle matter) are almost purely magical and produce don't necessarily shock you

[hollow pivot]

Abyss bacteria would go hard.

[thick slate]

would it

[light linden]

abyss bacteria might be the most normal bacteria tbh

[thick slate]

thats just normal bacteria

[raven brook]

deep sea bacteria are in fact a thing in real life

[thick slate]

yea

[raven brook]

theyre kind of just normal yea

[thick slate]

they eata the chemicals

[light linden]

they'd be extremely similar to extremophile bacteria irl

[hollow pivot]

Would Silva super-charge Bacteria?

[long bloom]

exo prisms are technologically augmented sea prisms

[raven brook]

alot of some of the most primitive bacteria lineages are found in deep waters even iirc

[long bloom]

where's the mana part

[raven brook]

type of guys that got born in the primordial goop a morbillion years ago

[hollow pivot]

Magic might be the initial charger of the prisms.

[west plume]

you could probably say that sea prisms themselves produce boundless electricity in small amounts (they don't instantly kill you or Auric Rebuke you) but i don't see the path from sea prism to miracle matter without a magical process

[raven brook]

and just eat lava fumes or something

[thick slate]

in what way

its bacteria

[west plume]

well, yes

[light linden]

hmm

[raven brook]

If it was a infectious bacteira it could become like, super infectious i guess

Otherwise uhhh

yeah idk

[light linden]

come to think of it

[thick slate]

yea

bacteria cant get bigger

[hollow pivot]

Because Exo Prisms are just Sea Prisms that got a massive shot of energy.

[light linden]

underworld bacteria might not actually be able to infect people

[raven brook]

your 0.01 umm bacteira is now 0.02 umm

heartwarming

[long bloom]

draedon says exo prisms work by carving microscopic circuitry paths into a sea prism that makes them resonate a specific way

[raven brook]

was it umm, i dont remember the measurement

[light linden]

this is not a field I am super well versed in but

[thick slate]

umm

[west plume]

heartbreaking: some bacteria in the abyss are visible with the naked eye

[thick slate]

i just say um when im not bothered to get the symbol

[light linden]

I've heard that diseases that manage to survive someone with a fever struggle immensely when infecting a person without one

[thick slate]

yea

[light linden]

since the normal temperature of the human body is too cold for them

[west plume]

holdddd on

i have to ask permission for something

[light linden]

underworld bacteria might have a similar problem

[thick slate]

yea

[hollow pivot]

Do Demons have normal blood?

[thick slate]

do azafurians

[raven brook]

idk

[west plume]

what would you consider 'normal' blood

[thick slate]

how does calamitas exist in the snow biome

[hollow pivot]

Lemme check Calamitas' gibs.

[long bloom]

she doesn't have gores

this is because you don't kill her

[thick slate]

npc

[raven brook]

demons are mundane biologiacl organisms afaik so uhh

they pro bably have something you could call "normal" blood yea

like they have magic and shit but theyre like,

not paranormal beings

[west plume]

everyone has magic

[thick slate]

i assume not

[long bloom]

killing her npc form should trigger the bossfight

[hollow pivot]

nvm

[terse moss]

Does she have 20k health

[raven brook]

everyone has magic, it came free with your existing in terrari

[thick slate]

unless the inhabitants of the underworld have a higher body temp then normal

[west plume]

seems counterintuitive

[thick slate]

so prolly just normal bacteria

for normal people

[raven brook]

azafurians are cold blooded those that moved to the surface had to bask in the sunlight to get their heat intake

like a lizard

[thick slate]

thats beaytiuful

[terse moss]

Also, evolution takes a lot more than like 850 years. If they are a group of humans who moved to hell they would just still be humans

[west plume]

i could believe the abyss having ridiculously large eyesight-visible anaerobic bacteria that look like lil orbs post-silving but i don't see that being gameplay relevant ever

[terse moss]

Imagine some of the "bubbles" swim at you

[raven brook]

could be cute little decoration particles lol

[west plume]

like the fucked up single celled organism algae

[raven brook]

abyss could use some visual upgrades

[west plume]

it'd be like this

[long bloom]

microbial cluster 2 🔥

[thick slate]

not how it work unbfortunately

cause of math

[west plume]

that's how it would work

[dusk laurel]

forbidden grape

[long bloom]

do you think silva gaf about math

[hollow pivot]

Why would this take 850 years?

[terse moss]

🤔

[thick slate]

the only reason bacteria irl isnt big because their volume scales faster than their surface area

which means they cant physically intake nutrients fast enough to keep up with their metabolism

[long bloom]

yeah yeah the square cube law

booooring

[thick slate]

yea sorry

[terse moss]

The square cube law is goated ngl

and inverse square laws

[west plume]

yeah, but there are already bacteria that are large and visible to the naked eye

[thick slate]

i pay 20k a year to know this

[terse moss]

Yo, r u a bio major

[thick slate]

unfrortuantely

[long bloom]

[terse moss]

My friend does environmental science so thats close

[light linden]

syrup can I get your opinion on something btw?

[terse moss]

I am doing a physics and astronomy double, personally

[thick slate]

ok but not an orb

[west plume]

they're a capsule chain

maybe not Ridiculously large orbs

[west plume]

sure

[thick slate]

i mean u could just say colonies of bacteria

[terse moss]

And parasites can be huge

like meters long

and there would be tons in the abyss

[light linden]

do you think a soldier in yharim's army managing to fight off the profaned guardians and survive (mostly) intact would be a good reason for them to be elevated to a godseeker knight?

it's for an add-on I'm making

[west plume]

yeah

[light linden]

ok ty

actually another question

what do you think of an astral infection boss being visibly similar to a lamia?

[long bloom]

elaborate

[west plume]

it sounds pretty cool but i can't really think of many thematic ties lamia would have to the astral

[light linden]

I'm very much not sure on the final design but I wanted them to look like a living tower

[west plume]

astral monolith...

[light linden]

hell the lore I'm not even sure about for them

[thick slate]

the obelisk

[light linden]

Right now I'm thinking of what if the astral infection took over the corpse of one of the mercenaries draedon sent in

[thick slate]

im not sapient so the astral would b scary

[west plume]

the astral is known to be very friendly toward sapient beings

[light linden]

ik

[west plume]

such as the player character

[light linden]

the original idea was to have someone be infected after they injested infected matter

but that doesn't work so

[west plume]

no, i think you should run with it

[thick slate]

does astral take over corpses

[west plume]

idk

[long bloom]

yeah

it should

[light linden]

either way

[west plume]

it seems like a neat idea

worst case scenario you could just make the astral be a second coating of flesh which sustains and feeds off of the dying body underneath

[thick slate]

stuff can just b cool

it doesnt have to make perfect sense for an addon

[light linden]

the main idea for the boss is the infection gaining a massive boost to intelligence after managing to take over a sapient being's brain

[light linden]

thing is

I want it to be as close to lore accurate as possible

the 2nd half of the boss is the part where it isn't

in my mod's lore the astral infection is supposed to be the middle stage between large stars and black holes

since black holes in calamity aren't well explained if even mentioned

for context this boss is post-dog

the godseeker knight will also be a boss but is intended to be beaten around after you beat polter but before old duke

[thick slate]

is a godseeker knight that strong

i thought they were like pre provi at most

[light linden]

they're post prov

judging by their equipment

[terse moss]

Wouldn't the astral infection be closest to a supernova remnant? Like the star dies (supernova), and leaves behind stardust

[west plume]

you should make your godseeker knight Old. like, 120 years old. half of their body is completely replaced with technology 40k tech priest style and they're constantly using things like stimulants to keep fighting you

[thick slate]

why didnt they just kill providence

[terse moss]

Providence kept running away

[light linden]

funnily enough

[terse moss]

also Providence with the power regained from the meatballs is much stronger

[light linden]

remember how I said mostly intact after fighting the guardians?

[thick slate]

profaned core must REALLY piss her off then

[light linden]

yeah uh

he got his legs seared clean off

[west plume]

awesome

[light linden]

he uses prosthetics

[west plume]

that's perfect for a godseeker knight in my opinion

[terse moss]

Weren't the Godseeker knights kinda similar to space marines

like in function

[west plume]

they should be ancient fucked up extremely bigoted war-boomers

[light linden]

syrup do you mind if I explain their lore a bit?

[west plume]

sure

[light linden]

sure as in you mind?

[west plume]

i do not mind

[terse moss]

I am also interested, it seems cool

[light linden]

ok so

their whole thing is that they still very much believe in Yharim's cause but sees Draedon and DoG as leeches at best and anchors at worst

especially DoG

[terse moss]

What about SCal

just a traitor?

[light linden]

and their plan is to try to kill both of them and assuming he survives try to reach yharim and prove that the crusade isn't dead

[west plume]

not really. the similarity is most of them would have been Enhanced to keep fighting by draedon and maybe other collaborators later in the war effort; almost all of them are just People and would have either aged out of their roles to become problematic statesmen in the later empire or been modified to hell and back well into their later years, but that's only for newer godseeker knights necessarily

[light linden]

for context

like most people he didn't know that draedon was practically immortal

[terse moss]

I just mean more in military functions. They are elite units that are meant as shock troops to take on especially dangerous threats, improve morale, and report directly to the king (Yharim)

[west plume]

the older godseeker knights would be somewhere in the age range of 130-150 if they were able to be enhanced to live longer and serve longer

and also they'd eventually run out of easy to kill gods

[light linden]

and (this is based on an assumption) didn't know yharim went to the aerie

[terse moss]

Oh so he is on like a holy quest to find his master who has long since abondoned him for a different successor

Man, hope he doesn't crash the hell out

[terse moss]

Isn't Yharim only like 120

Why doesn't he get super implants

[west plume]

yharim does have super implants

question mark

[terse moss]

oh

idk

maybe

why is he dying of old then

[light linden]

he specifically fights the player because he sees them as wanting to both kill yharim and someone who wants the crusade to end permanently

also another thing

[terse moss]

If the godseeker knight found out Yharim chose the player as his successor, would he follow them, or be upset it wasn't one of his loyal knights and try to prove he is better by killing you and taking your place

[light linden]

in their lore, if the player both did not kill him and didn't kill DoG he would've tried to kill DoG himself

[violet spoke]

does auric ore turn footstep into electricity

[west plume]

he is a human and already has had an unnaturally extended life

[terse moss]

🤔

[terse moss]

Right but if godseekers can live to like 150, he has a few more decades in him I would think

and either way, can't yharim revive him once he dies of old

[light linden]

and the weapons he uses in both his boss fight and that he drops reflects this

[west plume]

i don't know yharim's exact age but i would say most of the initial godseeker knights were probably within 10-20 years of him? more or less

[light linden]

does this make sense syrup?

[west plume]

yes

i like the character arc you have planned

i also think it makes perfect sense for an old raggedy godseeker knight

[light linden]

well here's the thing

I never designed them to be super old

[terse moss]

Were godseeker knights like "heroes" of the war

[light linden]

I actually wanted them to be younger

[hollow pivot]

I thought godseeker was a title alone.

[terse moss]

Well I think its a rank

like especially strong guys

[long bloom]

he's hovering around 130

[hollow pivot]

And he's godkiller or is that out of date?

[hollow pivot]

Unc

[terse moss]

Bro is ancient

[light linden]

since they're supposed to be a bit stuck in that hyper idealist mindset that gets younger people to willingly join horrific conflicts

[west plume]

i think 'Godseeker Knight' is a rank you can acquire through merit or appointment. a 'Godseeker' is anyone who seeks to slay deities/is apart of Yharim's warband

[terse moss]

Thats like finding a war vet born in like 1890

[hollow pivot]

Is godkiller also a title?

[light linden]

that make sense?

[terse moss]

Would younger members even be godseekers?

I feel like you would need to extensively prove yourself

work your way up the ranks

unless you are like john le goat and kill a god as a teenager

[west plume]

younger members just wouldn't be godseeker knights unless appointed through nepotism by the upper ranks of yharim's remaining military

[terse moss]

Same reason there aren't any 20 year old generals

[west plume]

there aren't enough gods to kill or enough feats to prove you can kill a god

[light linden]

again

I don't want them to be super young

like 20

[hollow pivot]

I thought there were like 1,500 gods?

[light linden]

just not like 80 or older

[light linden]

I want them to be toeing the between this

[west plume]

so there can be 1,500 total Official Premium Grade Totally Legit Godseeker Knights with military distinguishment over the course of around 100 years

[light linden]

and realization about what the hell is actually going on

[terse moss]

assuming no one ever kills multiple

and yharim and yharon and dog never kill any

[west plume]

this isn't to say that there are only 1,500. i still think they'd start inducting through nepotism or arbitrary feats

but like... the god supply is pretty limited

[light linden]

fun fact

this is exactly why I made it the profaned guardians

[terse moss]

It would likely start as a feats based system and eventually become a political rank via nepotism and whatnot as the war goes on and Yharim has a less direct hand in things

internal politicking

[west plume]

yeah

[hollow pivot]

Did that not happen to the Sith?

[light linden]

it's impressive enough for it to hold some weight but not them killing a god with inferior equipment

[west plume]

it shifts from just being the most distinguished members of a barbarian horde to being a stratocracy run by geriatric older members of the crusade

[terse moss]

Man, like that would ever happen

[west plume]

yharim doesn't have to be around because like, 20 other ultra-bigoted 120 year old aging delapidated falling apart godseeker knights decided to join the government 60 years ago and sit there and control everything while yharim was in charge of the actual crusade and morale

[hollow pivot]

I swear I read a book where that exact thing happened.

[terse moss]

I am surprised Yharim didn't get sick of the corruption and slaughter the higher ups before falling into apathy

[west plume]

i think this is something yharim would have done earlier into the crusade but eventually he gets more apathetic to the empire situation and then eventually just Dissociates

[hollow pivot]

Bro just came back before going to the Aerie and cleansed the crusade hierarchy?

[terse moss]

Yharim just kinda spacing out for a while is so real tho

midlife crisis lol

[hollow pivot]

Latelife crisis more accurate.

[terse moss]

He realized he spent literally his entire life on an unachievable goal, and all he accomplished was killing a bunch of innocent people and then dying of old age

He was a failure, and will be forgotten in a few generations

[hollow pivot]

He halved the world population, he ain't getting forgotten for a long time.

[hollow pivot]

We remember people who have done 10-20% for centuries.

[terse moss]

well like a few hundred years before he was just like some historical figure

not like a household name

[west plume]

yharim the tyrant will be remembered. yharim the zealot probably won't be

yharim the crusader won't survive like at all and died as soon as he stopped being the face of the crusade and empire military operations

[terse moss]

Yeah

he as a person won't be remembered

he as an icon for an event will

[light linden]

reminds me a bit of the joplin tornado

[west plume]

there are people who have been born and died in the empire in an era where gods are pretty much a thing of the past

[light linden]

there are people alive today in the same area who haven't experienced a tornado nearly as powerful yet there are very very clear marks from its path even now

[west plume]

the people in the empire probably won't feel or acknowledge the decay until it's too late

[terse moss]

Well he was the only thing holding it together

as soon as he left it probably basically collapsed into corruption, with warlords splitting up the pieces and having a bunch of civil wars

like 20 years after he leaves max

if that

[west plume]

generous estimate

[light linden]

hasn't that already happened?

[west plume]

i'm pretty sure the belief that yharim is still alive is the only reason it hasn't balkanized

[terse moss]

Yeah 20 is like the most it could conceivably be, and only because he might still be out there somewhere

[terse moss]

yeah

He might come back and beat you up

[light linden]

there's nothing left in the heartlands but abandoned ruins

[hollow pivot]

Dude he just disappeared into a nigh-unreachable realm.

[terse moss]

well they don't know that

[hollow pivot]

People can't tell if he lives or dies unless the Terrarian says.

[terse moss]

they just know he is gone

[west plume]

^

[terse moss]

No one knows about the aerie really

draedon knows of it

[west plume]

Yharim is older than almost everyone in the empire and a lot of the modern inhabitants view Yharim as a sort of protector deity who was always there and always will be there

The empire survives off of the reverence they have for Yharim and his goals and will ironically collapse as soon as faith in him drops

[light linden]

I still wonder about a very specific thing regarding the yharmy

[hollow pivot]

Kinda like the Brimstone Elemental?

[light linden]

y'all ever play cyberpunk 2077?

[west plume]

If you were 70 years old you'd be a decent amount into the crusade when you were born and it still hasn't stopped being a political concern Now

[terse moss]

I think a lot of civilians kind of see him like meaner risk of rain 2 providence

[spare pier]

Bro I saw this message elsewhere and I was like "wait what happened?"

And then I scroll up and it's just

[terse moss]

yeah

[light linden]

(yes I am going to tie this into calamity)

[spare pier]

Cheese having a brain aneurysm

🔥

[west plume]

sorta? except brimmy didn't encourage it or really act in any way. the people in azafure were kind of just projecting onto her, whereas yharim was playing up the persona for personal gain

[spare pier]

Peak

[light linden]

I'm wondering if any of yharim's opponents developed any technology akin to what netrunners in that game use

since most/all of yharim's forces use equipment that is highly technological in nature

[terse moss]

If they had the tech to do so

I feel like draedon's tech would be hard to hack

he is kinda goated

[west plume]

they'd have to be hacking draetech which is ??

[eager bluff]

i dont think anybody did

[west plume]

kind of a plot hole

[light linden]

yes but there's also two things

[terse moss]

Draedon is literally centuries further in tech than anyone else

[west plume]

and also the crusade was entirely fine with analog tech

[hollow pivot]

People must've reverse-engineered Draedon's stuff within a cenutry.

Actually that's probably what Wulfrum is.

[terse moss]

if he let them, and even still, by then he would have likely jumped decades further still

[light linden]

first of all you're forgetting that there had to have been fights that the yharmy lost

[eager bluff]

because at a baseline they would need comparable technology which just isnt how most of them operated afaik

[west plume]

taking away yharim's enhancements doesn't stop him from like... using his sword and immense strength to kill gods

[terse moss]

probably early on there were a lot

[west plume]

like he used to

[light linden]

which means salvaging technology

[light linden]

I should've clarified

[terse moss]

But that was super early

pre draedon

[light linden]

I meant his soldiers

not yharim himself

[west plume]

that's fair

[terse moss]

I think draedon is the difference maker here

before that they probably just used like analog tech and steel

Basically barbarians

[light linden]

second of all there had to have been people smart enough to reverse engineer draedon's tech

we do it

I highly doubt we are unique in that was

[eager bluff]

like generally yharims opponents went far more into the magic branch of fighting from what we've seen

[west plume]

the soldiers are mostly fodder which is why there are distinctions like Godseeker Knight for people who are actually capable and won't be used to block magical projectiles

[terse moss]

Sure, but by the time they figure it out (an have a way to produce it) he is decades ahead again

[eager bluff]

we kinda dont

we

get the blueprints

[west plume]

before draetech it's likely that the average soldier wasn't a Big deal to take down but it was a horde

[terse moss]

also that

[west plume]

after draetech it's much harder to take down an individual soldier

[terse moss]

we literally can't make them without decoding blueprints

[eager bluff]

like we are directly told how to make his stuff and we just improvise for the stuff we dont have

[light linden]

can we not make the base for a computer to decode his encryption before we read a single blueprint?

[spare pier]

I actually would imagine to be the opposite because Yharim's army at the time was much more concentrated and relied on him. Their bulk of losses was probably around the halfway mark where they were strong but not completely insurmountable

[west plume]

can you make the base for a computer

[terse moss]

well the base doesn't do anything

[west plume]

i guess the other question is Can You Make A Computer

[terse moss]

losses in people yes, losses in battles maybe not?

more well armed, larger in general, more powerful allies

[light linden]

also I want to clarify something

[west plume]

if i give you 30 IoT devices and tell you to make a working classical computer from the parts could you do it

[eager bluff]

decryption computer needs sunken sea schematic

[light linden]

draedon was involved in the crusade for decades right?

[terse moss]

I can make a light turn on

does that count

[spare pier]

I do mean in battles because Yharim early on would definitely be careful about picking his battles

[terse moss]

hm, probably true

[eager bluff]

the base doesnt need anything but the base also doesnt do anything

[rain osprey]

yea

[spare pier]

The halfway mark is where he is strong, yes, but not overwhelmingly more powerful than the rest of the world

[terse moss]

but mid war it would be like the US military fighting redcoats

[light linden]

I find it exceptionally unlikely that the enemies of yharim didn't have a lucky break at some point

[west plume]

that's awesome

[terse moss]

if anyone did they get drone stiked by draedon prolly

[rain osprey]

i don't actually know how to do that sorry

[eager bluff]

wtf sunny lying

[terse moss]

One of my friends built a radio telescope

he might be able to

[light linden]

I am unsure if yharim would've approved of that unless he had hard proof

[light linden]

loT?

[eager bluff]

why

why would he care

[terse moss]

I don't think Yharim was that picky about killing people

[light linden]

could be a waste of resources

[west plume]

the issue is that the crusade is a sort of religious movement and yharim intentionally cut off trade routes around the very start of the crusades. if an individual opponent won they wouldn't have taken down the vast majority of the horde, nor do they have unrelenting soldiers, nor do they have anything which can come close to standing up to Yharon's support

[terse moss]

like if yharim was like "hey, send a pipe bomb to their house"

[eager bluff]

except its not his resources

[west plume]

you can Join the crusade and be safe and get resources and you won't be killed for being a god worshipper

[eager bluff]

or more accurately hes already giving draedon fuckoff amounts

[terse moss]

Thats true, yharon was probably huge early on

[long bloom]

legends say he's still huge now

have you seen the fucker

[terse moss]

there are like 5 dudes who could beat yharon one on one

back then

[light linden]

also another question

[eager bluff]

"waste of resources" doesnt matter when you arent hurting for resources

[light linden]

do we have like

[west plume]

yharon roasting you alive was a big help for convincing a lot of early settlements to help or surrender if you didn't just Agree with yharim's attempts at swaying you

[terse moss]

And thats without Yharim or the yharmy

[light linden]

any details about draedon's encryption?

[terse moss]

its pretty good I assume, as only his own computers can decode it

nothing else is even close

bro has hologram tech when other people are using handcrafted wooden bows

[light linden]

it being good isn't my only concern

specifically HOW it is good is my main concern

[spare pier]

So it's like

Early on due to the small size of the army and over-reliance on Yharim, they would pick their battles very carefully as any significant defeat would likely spell the end. They were also still not notorious figures on the world, and there was no real effort by big nations to stop them

The halfway mark is where this changes. The army is big enough that many operations can be done without Yharim or Yharon, the power level of the troops is higher and resources are more abundant. They can afford to take risks and they do, but their notoriety grows and people start to fight back, and the playing field is even here as the crusade had yet to take its full strength.

Later on, the crusade would simply become too powerful to be stopped and most of the meaningful threats would have fallen already. This is basically a victory lap; nothing is a real threat to the army, so it's just bug squashing.

[terse moss]

So good that no one else even has a chance in hell

[west plume]

i think draedon is a self-improving ai and his encryption was specifically designed to be difficult to break or decode without proprietary draetech. i think it's unlikely you'd be able to break it any time soon and the world sort of just isn't in the state to make computers which are strong enough to reasonably brute force encryption

it's kind of like how it's unreasonably difficult to break robust encryption irl since the technology just isn't generally advanced enough

i think given enough time and without the killing and maiming and starving the world could eventually get computers which are generally draedon level but it's sort of being purposefully held back from that and draedon would be far ahead by nature of not being resource starved

People have to deal with expectations and resources and bureaucracy and cost-effectiveness and reproducability and draedon just doesn't

[light linden]

god I have got to brush up on cryptography

I am trying to work with info I read years ago and can barely remember to articulate what I am trying to say

[west plume]

realistically the only solution to this is to either partner up with draedon (he isn't interested) or make another, more philanthropic draedon which will backfire immediately

[agile matrix]

calamity: sandbox and its just Draedon allowing the Terrarian to make bullshit in a hyperplane

[light linden]

there was some parallel between this situation and the enigma codes in ww2 I wanted to make but I can't remember the middle part of my argument and it is driving me insane

[terse moss]

he also has hundreds of thousands of super ocmputers constantly running calculations to make better computers on and on and on ad infinitum, so he has thousands and thousands of constantly improving, always active "brains"

he is genuinely just goated

[west plume]

yeah

[agile matrix]

i love (platonically) draedon

he's so auraful :)

[light linden]

OK I am going to have to revisit this topic later after I refresh my knowledge

[terse moss]

Draedon is one of my favorite characters

I think only behind Yharim

[agile matrix]

see i mentally make fun addons/full ass games whenever i like a topic in my head

[light linden]

syrup did you read this part?

[terse moss]

He is just sitting in his gamer chair aurafarming while Genocide Jim is wiping out the entire world

[west plume]

yes

[agile matrix]

i have made two for calamity: one as a test from Draedon to make the terrarian but in his command, and one which is infernum pt.2

[terse moss]

Hey, I got deep enough into the lore mines that I wrote a dnd campaign lol. I can't judge

[light linden]

any thoughts about it?

[west plume]

none particularly

awaiting excecution

[light linden]

problem with that

I'm kinda

stuck right now

I want to have them use some of the t4 arsenal weapons

but I do not know how intensively those will be changed in the future

[west plume]

make your own OC arsenal weapons

:p

[terse moss]

true

[west plume]

we can't change those

[terse moss]

making fantasy weapons is so much fun

[light linden]

I am doing that already

[agile matrix]

ive made like four in my head

[light linden]

but I'm not doing it for all types

[light linden]

I've made 31

[agile matrix]

once i figure out how to code shit/draw shit its so over

for my haters

i sohuld specify

[light linden]

and I want to see if the post rework stuff is similar to what I currently have planned or if I will like it better than what I have made

[pulsar ocean]

I’m a hater

[west plume]

i c

[light linden]

there is more work for my add-on to do though

[west plume]

it might be a while

[light linden]

namely the astral infection boss and I am adding in some new stuff

6 new auric armor sets based on the more gimmicky armor sets for classes (6th is omega blue), some new whips, a small handful of abyss enemies, and some more post-ml ammo types

I think I finally got the exo bullets working correctly speaking of which

for a bit of context their whole deal is that they start off as regular bullets but gain more homing and have a higher crit chance more times you hit the enemy

so I have other stuff I can work on in the meantime

spriting and music is still up in the air though

....sorry for clogging chat

[sinful adder]

Cool

[pulsar ocean]

It’s okay i forgive you

[worldly spindle]

WE forgive you

[terse moss]

Does Calamitas respect or resent Permafrost (like was she upset about having to do a cryogen)

[hollow pivot]

She put him in Cryogen because she wanted to make it look like he died because Yharim wanted him dead.

[terse moss]

Oh so permafrost allowed himself to be imprisoned

because he is a more skilled ice mage, even if he has less raw power

[terse moss]

So he was a relatively chill guy that wanted to kill some of the evil gods but realized Yharim is kinda the worst and dipped

but he dipped pretty recently actually

so he was down with most of it

[terse moss]

Permafrost is the more skilled mage, yes? Like obviously Calamitas outanks in raw output but he is more skilled and versatile I assume

[terse moss]

wait thats kinda cute actually

[hollow pivot]

Depends on your definition of “Cute”.

[terse moss]

Better than just offing him

its more tragic than anything

Idk, I know Calamitas has an astronomical death count, but I kinda feel bad for her

certainly more than for people like Yharim or Yharon

she was just a kid that basically got 'adopted' into the war

Like she is also effectively a casualty

Also, she dipped basically as soon as any of her critical thinking faculties developed

[hollow pivot]

This is what we have on the manipulation thing afaIk.

[hollow pivot]

It is interesting how the Bestiary (Most objective source of info) states that she practically enjoyed the violence.

[terse moss]

Is the end of the calamitas lore item Yharim being genuine or being manipulative

It seems genuine, but he also is a lying liar who lies

[woeful hatch]

She essentially used it as an unhealthy outlet for her grief and rage because Yharim told her it was the gods who awakened the brimstone elemental

She very much was manipulated

Yes she did enjoy taking revenge, but then she realized Yharim lied to her to get her to kill people who had NOTHING to do with that

[woeful hatch]

"She was ablaze with desire to douse the gods in her wicked wrath."

This already shows the extent of his manipulation. Yes, she wanted to take revenge on the gods.... Because yharim told her it was the gods who destroyed Azafure.

Maybe he DOES genuinely feel bad for her but he's still manipulating her and us and doesn't seem to be genuine in that

[agile matrix]

what confounds me is that he himself orchestrated that attack, and yet its her horrific sin

like he was the one to say "yes, i want That Area destroyed" and yet its her fault for pulling the trigger

unless he's referring from an outside perspective, trying to see from her perspective?

which also confuses me because if he could think that in Around A Month (the terrarian is you) i feel like he'd have time to realize he's also a massive piece of shit in Other places

[woeful hatch]

Well, she DID still incinerate Azafure herself, even if under Yharim's orders

"Just following orders" historically wasn't a very good defense

[sinful adder]

Some people, even in real life, are simply not capable of that sort of introspection

[agile matrix]

"just following orders" is often said by people who had the option to not do that
calamitas i dont think was ever presented a case where she could betray orders, until later in which she realized "this gilded gallbladder is full of shit"

[terse moss]

After 130 years of being lost in the sauce, Yharim would probably rather kill himself outright than admit he was wrong and all of that suffering he caused was for nothing, and he wasted his life

[agile matrix]

like up until [unspecified age] her "orders" were (i believe) more like ((lacking words here)) """her""" choices, but massively influenced by The Guy

[terse moss]

She was also quite literally a child

[agile matrix]

but it feels like he does, with cal's lore at least !

[woeful hatch]

Yes, obviously it's not as easy as just saying "no I won't do that" without any consequences

But that still doesn't absolve calamitas of all blame

[terse moss]

Which is why he just dipped out to the aerie

Bro wants you to kill him

[agile matrix]

you could spare a group of people but tell them to go into hiding (cal did this with permafrost, once she was forced

[terse moss]

Idk, I feel like she got out of it about as fast as most people in her position reasonably would have

Most people wouldn’t have such a hard turnaround

[agile matrix]

yes, she's still not a good person for decimating two whole countries basically, but she's not the main perp of the blame, thats yharim

[terse moss]

Also, Yharim could’ve had her executed as a traitor

[woeful hatch]

The reason he feels like he failed is because he wasn't efficient enough in killing gods

He's not regretting skeletron prime (aka war crime terrorist machine 3000) or the incinerating of Azafure for example

[terse moss]

It was under duress

[agile matrix]

you can regret some of your actions while not regretting the others

[woeful hatch]

He also uses the corruption and crimson as justification for the wickedness of the gods and doesn't say shit about the Hallow because that's against the manipulation he wants to do

[agile matrix]

yeah in his eyes he failed to kill all the gods. theres still some alive

[terse moss]

Yharim would never let her leave freely while being that much of a potential threat. The only reason she did get away was because Yharim had his depression arc

[agile matrix]

however, he (for once) may still be shameful of forcing calamitas to do that

[woeful hatch]

You do understand he's trying to manipulate you currently with the lore items right

[agile matrix]

he may not be shameful of the obliteration, but he may be shameful of very nearly enslaving someone (we see him against this with pbg)

[agile matrix]

oh no im entirely aware

[hollow pivot]

Almost a decade?

[terse moss]

That doesn’t mean he can’t occasionally be genuine

[terse moss]

Yeah

Most people never leave

[agile matrix]

im trying to see parts of yharims character thats beyond "i want all the gods dead"

[terse moss]

Leaving at all puts her in a pretty decent spot

[woeful hatch]

He's not regretting manipulating calamitas into doing that because he's literally trying to do the same with us

If you regret something

[agile matrix]

how do i phrase this .

[woeful hatch]

You DO NOT do it again

[terse moss]

Well part of it might have been that he regretted doing it to a child, which you are not

Also, people do stuff they know they are going to regret all the time

Also also sunk cost fallacy

[hollow pivot]

I will say, you can't really justify declaring war on Italy with the fact that your life was threatened.

[terse moss]

True, but it’s another piece

[agile matrix]

if calamitas was not calamitas, and instead a sapient blob named blimbo, and he was around blimbo during their developmental years and influenced them to finally destroy ilmeris, i do feel he would feel the same regret of "forcing" blimbo to do but NOT the regret of obliterating ilmeris

does that make sense?

[hollow pivot]

I dunno Blimbo sounds like he wouldn't regret it.

[agile matrix]

(this is mostly based on his disdain for the plague which is apparently more recent, where he also shows disdain for pbg's enslavement)

[terse moss]

Imagine being a 15 year old orphan and you adoptive father points to the people who allegedly razed your city to the ground and killed all of your friends and family, and also later there is the implicit or explicit threat of execution, and like a decade of brainwashing from an age you were extremely malleable and looking for authority figures due to said orphanhood

It’s easy to understand her mental state

And why she did what she did

[agile matrix]

see i alternatively could just ping any lore guy but i wanna make my own informed guesses

[terse moss]

Real people in the past have also done way worse with way less power and way less justification

[agile matrix]

its a good time appeasement

[woeful hatch]

Yes, I never tried to say calamitas had the whole blame for it, but she STILL did do it. And yeah, personally, I understand her, why she did do that, and do think she deserves redemption.

But she DID still do evil, and isn't an entirely good person.

[ruby heart]

that might still happen

just need to get into the grind with dia for that

[terse moss]

Oh of course

I think it’s like 15:85

Give or take

[hollow pivot]

Who?

[terse moss]

Calamitas:Yharim

She has some blame but is very much redeemable and sympathetic

[hollow pivot]

So that's what, 15,000 dead innocents?

[terse moss]

She was given poor info tho

[agile matrix]

she's seemed to have mellowed out(? lack of wordage) a ton while Yharim is still fighting a lost war

[terse moss]

That’s assuming she had correct info and did it anyway

[woeful hatch]

Nah, 35:65 IMO, if not 40:60

The evaporating of the sunken sea was not INSTANT, it took weeks. So she very much saw the pain she was causing to people

[terse moss]

You can’t really be held accountable for acting on poor info if you couldn’t have known better

[woeful hatch]

I can understand manipulation

But

She did do that

[terse moss]

True

Hm

[agile matrix]

idk it coulda been

[terse moss]

Maybe 20:80

Idk

[agile matrix]

wait whats your source on the time

[terse moss]

She just didn’t have the info necessary to know better really

Until Illmeris

[hollow pivot]

Which was the first thing she did afaIk.

[terse moss]

That was the turning point, and she left like immediately after

Really?

I thought Azafure was first, then some god hunting, then Illmeris, then leave

[agile matrix]

i thought she razed azafure accidentally

[terse moss]

Well yeah

[agile matrix]

did yharim make her go back and raze it again

[terse moss]

Yharim is a professional hater

That was not necessary

[agile matrix]

well yeah thats literally why like

50% of the things exist in teh game

[woeful hatch]

Dev statements and also fishbone boomerang tooltip

"Though the evaporating Sea Kingdom fought a losing battle, its proud inhabitants did not go down easily.
As a last resort, they had to fashion weapons from the skeletons of dead animals."

[terse moss]

Oh so it was weeks minimum

Imagine your entire civilization crumbling against a teenager

[agile matrix]

its a very nuclear teenager

[hollow pivot]

I don't think we know enough about how the Brimstone Elemental and Calamitas fight went.

[terse moss]

Like imagine how frustrating that much be for the unstoppable, insurmountable tide to be some 15 year old no one can hit with a harpoon

[woeful hatch]

Not that we know of, but I don't think a timing was specifically set

[terse moss]

Fair

That would change my opinion if Ilmeris was earlier

[hollow pivot]

Imagine burning cities for weeks and never considering “Should I really be murdering all the children?”

[terse moss]

If it’s first then yeah like 40:60

[terse moss]

I think it would be easier than you think it would be, in a weird way. Humans are rationalization machines, and it’s basically impossible for us to see ourselves as the bad guy

Like your brain will fabricate events to not have to confront bad emotions

[agile matrix]

"hey yharim those guys looked like. really scared. were they good people?"
"no they liked a god those were basically sinners."
"oh.... okay..."

[terse moss]

“Hey no those were soldiers of the god that razed your city to the ground and slaughtered your family”

Like yeah I could see it

Doesn’t make it right

But I could see it

[woeful hatch]

I don't think it was the FIRST thing she did.

But she did do a lot of stuff

"I counted on her sheer capacity for annihilation as my ace in the hole.
No man, army, city or god could stand against her unbridled fury"

So she did do missions multiple times

[agile matrix]

idk if its good to blame the child soldier for the actions that the soldier commander for any more than 25%

at least in my eyes

[terse moss]

She was conscripted by her like “””father””” figure at like 15 immediately after her family died and city burned, and she was given someone to blame

Action she could take

I feel like most people would do the same

Like 95% of people in that position

Maybe more

[agile matrix]

wait 15 i thought she was like 10 when she was conscripted

[terse moss]

That’s even more so then

[hollow pivot]

She's stated to be a teenager in-lore, we don't know how old she was exactly, she could've been 13 or 17, 15 is just the average for what Calamitas might've been.

[agile matrix]

my source is literally jack all but i remember faintly at conscription she was like. pre-teen.
old enough to rememeber things but still in developmental years

[terse moss]

I remember that too

[hollow pivot]

That might be old lore.

[terse moss]

I thought she was like 11-12

[woeful hatch]

I do not know, but I don't think so

Simply because I think most people would have a full mental breakdown earlier and go in like a catatonic state or attack Yharim beforehand

But, it is important to say, when she was misguided she DID indeed enjoy it, as Hotguy said, and as written in the bestiary. Which is inherently fucked up, a bit.

[agile matrix]

maaaybe. i dont know

[terse moss]

True

I agree most people would either crash out or just completely shut down

[hollow pivot]

Calamitas did crashout.

[terse moss]

Famously so

[hollow pivot]

Centennial Crashout.

[woeful hatch]

"After inheriting nigh limitless magical power as a mere teenager, she was recruited into Yharim's army, where she served for nearly a decade."

Teenager+ nearly a decade

[terse moss]

She is 28 now

I know that

27 or 28

[agile matrix]

okay so nearly a decade says like

9 years

[hollow pivot]

How long between when she left and the Terrarian?

[terse moss]

So she would’ve been like 17ish

[terse moss]

6 months

[woeful hatch]

Well she SERVED till she was an adult at least, and did stay there a while

We don't know the exact timing

[woeful hatch]

?? Where's this from?

[terse moss]

One dev said it a while ago

[agile matrix]

28 - 9 = 21 years old ????

[terse moss]

Like last time I asked

[long bloom]

what

[terse moss]

Right?

[agile matrix]

hold on this math doesnt math

[terse moss]

Unless I am misremembering

[long bloom]

she left soon after the ilmeris incineration

[terse moss]

It is 4:30 am

[long bloom]

like 15 years ago

[hollow pivot]

?

My math brain isn't braining rn.

[terse moss]

Yeah I gotta sleep

I can’t be doing this lol

[hollow pivot]

I'm getting some contradictory numbers.

[agile matrix]

okay so teenager means like

13 at the youngest

[woeful hatch]

19

How did you get 21

[agile matrix]

19 at the oldest

[agile matrix]

im complete dogshit at math

[hollow pivot]

Oh thank you boy wonder.

[hollow pivot]

That's just what teen means.

[agile matrix]

13 + 9 = 22 (heh.)
17 + 9 = 26
right?????

but she left soon after ilmeris incineration, which was around 15 years ago, approx

[hollow pivot]

So Illmeris Incineration was late into her service?

[long bloom]

according to my timeline:

~1859: calamitas is born

~1870: azafure burns, calamitas conscripted

~1875: calamitas incinerates ilmeris, permafrost defects, she's ordered to kill him and leaves

1887: game starts

[woeful hatch]

Uuuugh this fucks up even more shit

Because she served for nearly a decade according to bestiary?

[agile matrix]

22 - 15 = 7
26 - 15 = 11

that doesnt

work.

we're off by, what

6 years?

[woeful hatch]

Xzier do you remember if calamitas bestiary is up to date or needs rewriting because I do not remember that

[long bloom]

i think it's fine?

[hollow pivot]

I think if Bestiary is up-to-date it would trump random dev statements in this case.

[agile matrix]

whats our source on cal's age???

[hollow pivot]

because it has to go through more scrutiny.

Bestiary says Cal was a teenager.

[agile matrix]

someone just said "27 or 28" on a whim do we have a discriminate number

[woeful hatch]

Then something's fucked up with your timeline since she's said to have served for nearly a decade

[long bloom]

multiple writers saying she's 28 as of 1887

[agile matrix]

okay

so

im doing too much math for 1:28 am.

[long bloom]

all the math maths except for that line

so idk

[hollow pivot]

I think this might need a dev to sort out.

Because this is devs contradicting each other.

[long bloom]

fuck there's no writers online

[agile matrix]

1887 is game time
'87 -15 years = '72 ~= Ilmeris is incinerated

[long bloom]

[agile matrix]

right?

[woeful hatch]

Where does she say she left soon after Ilmeris? That's what's probably fucking up the timeline

[long bloom]

permafrost left after ilmeris

which is when she left

[hollow pivot]

When was Illmeris?

[agile matrix]

approximately 1872

[hollow pivot]

Where was it stated to be right before she left?

[agile matrix]

according to the 15 years

[long bloom]

somewhere

[agile matrix]

so soft bet 1873 or just 1872

[long bloom]

lemme check the introductory doc

[hollow pivot]

WAS THAT THE BITE

[long bloom]

ok the introductory doc (mostly fact checked by devs) lists calamitas joining the crusade in 1870

and ilmeris around 1875

[hollow pivot]

Okay so Illmeris was around half-way through her service.

[agile matrix]

she stayed for 4/5 whole more years after that???????

[long bloom]

i guess permafrost could've waited a bit before leaving

for some reason

[agile matrix]

that doesnt

work

[long bloom]

even though it makes no sense

[agile matrix]

we're off by 5 years again!

[woeful hatch]

Either that or Calamitas wasn't sent to hunt him down right after

[long bloom]

that could be possible i guess

[hollow pivot]

“We just burnt Italy and murdered thousands? I can probably go a few more years.” ~ Permafrost idk

[agile matrix]

"yeah i can wait 4 to 5 whole damn years"

[hollow pivot]

Yharim must have some crazy contract cooked up.

[agile matrix]

^

[agile matrix]

^

[long bloom]

also side note
it's not explicitly confirmed that current year is 1887 but a metric fuckload of math just completely breaks if it's not

so yeah

[hollow pivot]

1887 is what year?

[agile matrix]

okay so either yharim is absolutely horrible at locating his second best wizard

[long bloom]

when the game starts

you spawn in with a copper shortsword

[agile matrix]

or we're off by 5 years, calwise

[hollow pivot]

nuh uh iron sword im journey mode