lore-discussion

[terse moss]

That would be really funny tho

Especially since the bosses don’t know they have music

[eternal veldt]

LMAOOO

I mean... the terrarian is schizophrenic

XD

[terse moss]

The terrain just imagines the music to hype themselves up

[eternal veldt]

Shi that might actually be a nerf. Makes me distracted bopping to the music that i can't focus on the fight

[analog spindle]

All it is is 2016's roblox obby music

[dusk laurel]

😭

the ptsd is kicking in

[split mortar]

Lmao?

[pulsar ocean]

hi

[dusk laurel]

kozz appearance

[raw nest]

How powerful would the terrarian be if they somehow managed to perfectly ascend using yharons soul?

[digital trench]

Just beat Calamity blind for the first time. Are there any good YouTube videos explaining the lore of Calamity

[zenith geode]

iirc no

the best source of lore is this channel and its pins

[robust osprey]

never trust sloptube

[zenith geode]

there was one video that went into the biology of some things in cal that was quite good but thats not really the lore

[pulsar ocean]

Idk but yhar har har would be close to xeroc level

[long bloom]

the only source actually fact checked by the writers is the introductory doc in the second pin

and if you just want a compilation of everything in the game, the reference doc in the first pin

[digital trench]

Cool

[feral skiff]

it would be so awesome

it would be so cool

[green prairie]

this is unrelated to the question but it does make me sad that a lot of channels that make "the FULL LORE of BLANK" really. don't care about what theyre talking about

i think a proper video explaining the current state of calamity's lore would be a helpful asset to people, but sadly that either doesn't exist or does and contains tons of misinformation

[agile matrix]

they give the books fact, they dont give the soldiers opinion

“Yharon hatched and prevented Yharims death” doesnt work as well as “Yharon hatched and saved Yharims life”, while both being factual statements (using calamity as example)

however, most lore places say the second one, they dont say the first ( when they should )

aka: face value interpretation

[green prairie]

plus i think a lot of people just. haven't kept up with the rewrite. i can't tell you how many people i've met who still call Yharon the jungle dragon

[agile matrix]

personally i think Yharon living in the most plants and growth place on Terraria for an extended period of time is symbolic but yes he is called Dragon of Rebirth

then again he aint the dragon of life

[eager bluff]

its more thematic for him to be reborn in

literal hell

[agile matrix]

i mean i guess

theres not really a place in terraria thats like. Redeemed??? in my eyes

since we the terrarian really dont Fix a place other than undoing the problem caused by Yharim/us

only place that we really “cure” is the evils and (schrodingerly) most dont do that

if there WAS a place that was recovering from The War and it was doing great, thatd be a good place for Yharon

unfortunately:

[eager bluff]

what war though

[green prairie]

Y'know. the war. the one Yharim started

[agile matrix]

The Big One

[eager bluff]

because it sure as hell aint yharims because he was reborn before that

[agile matrix]

i feel like a city borne from Yharim and Yharon wouldnt fare well vs one borne to respect/house Yharon/the revive thing

[agile matrix]

the crusades its name i just rembered

[eager bluff]

ok but the place made for that is. the aerie. thats where yharon goes to get reborn. he only didnt for yharim because he got stolen

[green prairie]

plus can't dragons only be revived in the Aerie?

[agile matrix]

respect the ideal of rebirth moreso than be an altar

or just give gifts to Yharon ( if they accept PayPal)

kinda like samsara (from my limited knowledge)

[eager bluff]

wdym by kinda like samsara

[agile matrix]

again, limited knowledge of so but from what i remember its kinda like how everyone is reborn in different bodies or used for diff things

[eager bluff]

samsara refers to the cycle of life death and rebirth yes

[agile matrix]

that general idea would go well with people who respect Yharon as their… patron dragon??????

lack of better word

[green prairie]

i imagine like a little altar in the town square or something where people leave tributes to Yharon (actually that sounds like a fun build to do)

[agile matrix]

yah

maybe they even donate with the ifea that eventually itll come back around to help them

all things come back eventually, in some way or another

that mentality

[green prairie]

maybe it's a city Yharim and Yharon protected at one point (if they ever did protect anything instead of just crusading)

[agile matrix]

see id think Yharon would be the guy pre-gods

and post gods he would be a lot more defensive of his town

and then post crusade the place kinda fell to ruin ( since the mentality failed)

((bc yes sometimes religions are not successful that happens !))

[eager bluff]

pre gods i think he just kinda didnt give a shit about anything that wasnt other auric dragons

[agile matrix]

why so?

[eager bluff]

which i think leads better into the religion failing

[agile matrix]

post gods i think he’d be defensive of the dragons moreso (and slowly move from the people)

[eager bluff]

they were worshipping something that fundamentally didnt give a shit about them in hopes of placating it

[green prairie]

did all of the Auric Dragons give no shit about humanity?

[agile matrix]

would the dragons not care for their people ?

[eager bluff]

what people

[agile matrix]

yeah that smy question

[agile matrix]

i would think humans exist

[eager bluff]

most of them didnt interact with humans

[green prairie]

i mean, they had monks and such tending to the Aerie, so i'd assume they have some care for mortal life?

[eager bluff]

and if they did go out of their way to interact it would be a coin flip on if it was benevolence or malevolence

[agile matrix]

i would personally be baffled if there wasnt a Prometheus type dragon who helped humanity move a lil forward

[green prairie]

ofc not all of them care, Zeratros went literal scorched earth, Flame tried to kill a ton of people iirc

[eager bluff]

that was vetrasyl

one of the few dragons we can say actually gave a shit about humans in a positive sense

[green prairie]

all-powerful dragons most of which don't give a shit about the mortals they exist above? my comparisons to the Source Dragons grow by the day

[eager bluff]

auric dragons were Hot Shit™ and they knew it and they knew nothing would really be able to do anything to them

and that mentality was only shattered when moon lord showed up and killed half of them

[agile matrix]

i personally cant interpret very powerful beings without them either being VERY murderous or benevolent

[eager bluff]

why

they're off doing their own thing

[green prairie]

the idea of the dragons being morally gray is hard to believe. if you have that much power, why not protect the people who worship you?

[agile matrix]

like if you see a bug in the house you either go “aaa bug” or “hey man lets get you out”

[eager bluff]

because they dont matter to you

[terse moss]

If you had an ant farm, would you personally ensure the survival of every ant

[agile matrix]

i mean they dont NEEEED the worship

[agile matrix]

i would ensure the survival of the leader of the ants, and make sure the keep the ants okay

[green prairie]

well, they are my ants. the least i can do is ensure nothing catastrophic happens to them

i'll guarentee the Auric Dragons wouldn't have intervened with Fovos if he didn't try and kill them first

[eager bluff]

a bear doesnt go out of its way to ensure safety of things it doesnt prey on

even if it indirectly protects them by being around and deterring other predators thats not a conscious thing

[green prairie]

oh well. it is a crue world anyway, ofc everyone is gonna be differing levels of awful

[eager bluff]

hell even look at people

a lot of conservationists dont care about individual animals as long as the ecosystem stays strong

[agile matrix]

erm actually its a tale of a cruel world

[green prairie]

i just realized i forgot the l too. someone took the l

[agile matrix]

no l

[green prairie]

tricky tony strikes again

[hollow pivot]

Was the Slime god a slime that absorbed an auric soul or was it a guy who just got destroyed after ascending?

[agile matrix]

dragon of gluttony -> god of slime

[hollow pivot]

What does this mean?

[agile matrix]

do you know how Gods are made

[hollow pivot]

A creature with a normal soul absorbing an Auric one.

[agile matrix]

its a person most times (to my knowledge)

but yes

[light linden]

it's a person

[agile matrix]

yuh

[light linden]

the only exception was silva

[agile matrix]

see my “most times”

[eternal swan]

The moment Where Xeroc will face us,will be legendary

[thick slate]

hi barb

[robust osprey]

not just a creature

it has to be sapient

a slime is, infact, not a sapient being

[torn condor]

I have a funny headcanon

• the terrarian is summoning and fighting all of the bosses essentially for fun, either summoning them on accident by poking around where they shouldn't have, getting information from asking random people, or looking at old books to find out about different monsters and mages and how to summon them
• they don't understand roar of the jungle dragon because it's being sung in an archaic and/or draconic language they haven't learned, so they can't get guilt tripped into thinking they're the bad guy
• the stuff calamitas says during her fight makes the player reconsider their path, and they stop trying to hunt down the most powerful beings in terraria afterwards, either because they've realized the destruction they've caused and/or because they don't want to get into an altercation with yharim

[robust osprey]

important to note: most summon items arent canon

most chase you down or just mindless beasts wanting to kill/eat something

[untold forge]

I was just tending my crops then the literal embodiment of rebirth attacked me smh

[robust osprey]

yeah canonically yharon kinda just goes around the whole world hunting your ass down

lo

[robust osprey]

the demon itself

[untold forge]

I'll forever love the "you're a squid but really really strong" cause that's one of my favorite concepts for the terrarian ever. I wonder if we can dig up the original story for that character in this chat actually

[split mortar]

Calamari?

[untold forge]

I don't remember her name just that she was the character of a lore writer in 2024 when I was super active ^^

If that's the name even better tbh

[split mortar]

Yeah it is

[robust osprey]

wait thats what it is??

[warm gull]

arrival gun

[robust osprey]

StinkyChungus25

[warm gull]

Yep, that's me.

You're probably wondering how I got here.

[robust osprey]

yeah

[untold forge]

Dai it's been years why aren't we friends on discord 😭

[torn condor]

good username

[warm gull]

probably because we dont talk very much

[split mortar]

Siffrin

[untold forge]

True I did dip out for a while, had to grab some milk

[warm gull]

I cant send random gifs because calmain is run by tyrants

[untold forge]

LMAO

[warm gull]

you should talk in sscls more

[untold forge]

I can't fish react anymore augh

[warm gull]

I think youre in there

[untold forge]

I get so lost in there 😭

[torn condor]

what if im a saiyan like goku and somebody tells me I can get to this strange planet in another galaxy with dozens of insanely powerful beings to fight by drinking a strange potion so I drink it and i wake up in the middle of terraria with all of my powers gone

[robust osprey]

she is in sscls wtf

I have never seen you in my LIFE

[split mortar]

Up to you

[warm gull]

the lore of the terrarian is up to you

[untold forge]

Yea lmaooo

I left calmain for a while :3

All i did was chat here anyways cause the lore is scrumptious

Such a fun world to discover and pick apart

[warm gull]

most of the channels arent for anything, you could just talk in the general chat if you want

[untold forge]

Yeag!

[split mortar]

Yeah general and general 2 basically the only used chats other then the horrors

[robust osprey]

general 2 more like limbus channel

[warm gull]

not on my watch

the general 2 channel STAYS the general 2 channel

[stoic gulch]

Sscls talk? In MY lore discussion?!

[untold forge]

[split mortar]

Yes

[fleet wedge]

SBC lyrics aren't canon though

[zenith geode]

general 2 is for different horrors sorry

[untold forge]

[fleet wedge]

It's more likely than you think!
(By the way, what is sscls? )

[split mortar]

Ok woke lesbian jesus

[pulsar ocean]

im gonna pretend im in on this

[wanton pendant]

A miserable little pile of secrets. But enough talk, have at you!

[fleet wedge]

Anyways, I find it pretty funny how all of the Calamity NPCs are important figures to the lore and then the Bandit is just... There

[warm gull]

why did you delete and then repost the same message

[rose cave]

HIII Is there anyone from Europe?

[random mulch]

i am, but if this is about multiplayer then you're supposed to ask in #multiplayer-looking-to-play

[split mortar]

Im british but what does being in europe matter

[random mulch]

imagine not living on the mainland

[feral skiff]

i could say something really stupid here

but i’m not gonna

[green prairie]

i like how Yharon doesn't do anything when you kill literal gods but the moment you kill someone he knew through the Crusades he tries to stop you

actually, did Yharon and the Devourer even really know each other?

i imagine they were allies but in a "that guy is shady as fuck but he puts in hard work so i like him" sort of way

[sinful adder]

No they hated each other, it's more about you being strong enough to be dangerous

[green prairie]

did they? i havent read the Yharon/DoG lore in a while

[wanton pendant]

They have no canonical interactions to my knowledge, but given how Yharim views DoG I can't imagine Yharon would view him much higher.

[green prairie]

in hindsight Yharon probably doesn't think super highly of anyone that isn't an Auric Dragon or Yharim

[wanton pendant]

I assmue that's a typo but it still works.

[green prairie]

IT IS OOPS

they're so easy to get confused if youre zoned out

[raven brook]

Yeah i doubt he cares much about anyone beyond yharim, at most he'd probably have respect for godseeker knights that are truly loyal to their cause

And Devourer is the Guy Everyone Hates so

local asshole so assholish that even the two racist genocidal assholes dont like him

[torn condor]

have you not played calamity

she talks to you in the in game chat

[green prairie]

no the lyrics of Stained Brutal Calamity genuinely aren't canon, they were based on an old draft of the lore which is now outdated

[torn condor]

I don't care about sbc I never brought it up

calamitas talks to the player during the fight and that's what I'm referring to

[green prairie]

oh i think i misinterpreted a misinterpretation

but yeah the stuff Cal says would probably resonate with the Terrarian... or not! someone pull up the image

[split mortar]

Aint that dialogue also heavily outdated by years or did they change it this update

[icy veldt]

I'm pretty sure that text is also getting changed in SSO, since (for example) the line "It wasn't too long ago you barely managed to defeat my doppelganger. Quite the failure, wasn't it?" really doesn't mesh with her current characterization

[green prairie]

no the dialogue is still the same

[green prairie]

plus CalClone hasn't been called a doppleganger since like. 2019

[raven brook]

I'm pretty sure the fight dialogue is also getting changed eventually

[raven brook]

Yharon isn't really literally singing to you as the fight happens, but it is true that they literally wouldn't be able to understand yharon though given Draconic is a entirely different language yeah
I suppose if you want to headcanon your Terrarian actively studied the draconic language or something you could do that 😭

And others have already commented on boss summons so yeah

[raven brook]

It's literally in her dialogue right now unless the wiki is outdated :p

Which yeah i think dosen't really make much sense

Calamitas went out of her way to free the clone, meanwhile this dialogue reads as her treating the clone as something subhuman, which is more reminiscient of Calclone's original pre-rewrite iteration where she was some abomination in a mech

[torn condor]

you can guilt trip someone without directly addressing them

like if you did something I didn't like and I later said to someone else "wasn't it a shame when 🧀 🌙 did that thing"

[raven brook]

I'm not really sure what you mean, what i'm saying is that yharon isn't actually singing in the fight and the lyrics of RotjD aren't diagetic

They are canon in the sense they're an actual accurate look into Yharon's characterization and thoughts during the fight

Not in that he's actively singing while fighting you

[torn condor]

interesting

[young socket]

that line is correct

[raven brook]

Which would be hilarious but also very goofy 😭

[young socket]

im pretty sure the only scal related things that have changed in new lore is literally one line in her npc form

which was her hating permafrost

[raven brook]

Correct as in it's still ingame or correct as in you think it's accurate to her character

I assume the former

[young socket]

ingame

[raven brook]

icic yeah checks out

[torn condor]

also possible that calamitas really doesn't like the clone... and that's why she freed it, because she didn't want people making clones of her and she wanted to send a message to draedon

[split mortar]

Thougjt omni became a mod for a sec

[torn condor]

that my interpretation at least

[raven brook]

happens

I think it'd be weird for calamitas to actively dislike the clone specially given her freeing the clone happens far after her "redemption arc"

[torn condor]

it's still in game

[raven brook]

Her existence is definitely a bit uncomfortable, but

the clone is a human being who was not asked to be born and was made as a replica of someone else with no identity of her own, and as a replica of someone who is hated worldwide by her crimes at that

[torn condor]

I would certainly be disturbed if somebody was trying to make a perfect clone of me

[raven brook]

I read it much more as calmaitas sympathizing for her

[raven brook]

Yeah, hate draedon for that

not the clone

[split mortar]

Disturbed at draedon not the clone

[raven brook]

yeh

[raven brook]

Freeing her to give her a chance in life, and not wanting her to be used as a tool by draedon much like she was herself by yharim

[torn condor]

calamitas probably knows the power she holds and wants to free the clone so that draedon can't exploit her powers

[raven brook]

The clone dosen't have any powers

[split mortar]

The clone lacked power

[raven brook]

She's a completely mundane human being

[split mortar]

Until after it got freed

[torn condor]

that would be part of the reason, the other could be sympathizing for the clone

[raven brook]

The clone was a "failure" in the sense... it had no powers

Because Calamitas's powers were never biological to begin

However, genertically speaking

[split mortar]

It was perfectly biological clone

[raven brook]

She is a perfect replica of her

yeh

[torn condor]

does calamitas know that though

[raven brook]

In fact the little bit of power the clone got was from calamitas freeing her. how exactly that went by we don't know

[raven brook]

I mean we don't know but i feel like it'd be a fair assumption to make given calamitas knows herself and she knows she wasn't born with her powers

[torn condor]

and again, is the safer bet leaving the clone alone with draedon where it COULD have powers and COULD be exploited as a supersoldier, or freeing it so it can live a regular life if it's a mundane person or not be exploited by any side if it has brimstone magic powers

[raven brook]

Part of her narrative is the fact she was kind of just a normal kid until one day the horrors happened

[split mortar]

Draedon planned to use the clone as a furnace not a soldier iirc

[raven brook]

Yeah bro deadass was cloning calamitas just cuz he wanted to wield her flame to mkae a better furnace 😭 😭

very in character for him

[torn condor]

still the same idea of exploiting someone for wartime purposes

[split mortar]

Draedon was seperate from yharim by then

[icy veldt]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

[vital void]

i think a lot of calamitas stuff between in-game and in-lore is kinda wild because it seems pretty strange to me that she has 0 interactions with permafrost (and vice versa)

[raven brook]

Yeah stuff ingame is p outdated rn

It's being worked on dw

Perma and Cal will definitely have more stuff later

It'd be wild if they didn't

[torn condor]

perhaps the clone was entirely an experiment and draedon would have just made a literal inanimate brimstone furnace or forge if he could study a cloned calamitas and find out how her powers worked

[raven brook]

In old lore they didnt have much of a connection, and the NPC happinesses still reflect that, per example

[torn condor]

in which case who knows what would have happened

[split mortar]

Calamity is heavily unfinished and still a mile away from clearing old stuff away is why

[torn condor]

maybe he would have killed the clone or sent it to live a normal life

or he would've given it the mech suit, turning it into the calamitas clone boss

who knows

[vital void]

yeah that's fair. it's still a bit jarring personally since the lore is there via cryogen bestiary and stuff but not reflected in other parts of the game (even if i understand they're still working on it)

[raven brook]

fair yea

its def jarring

[tepid marten]

Come back in 20 years and maybe calamity will be finished

Hopefully

[split mortar]

Yeah it is

[torn condor]

calamitas and permafrost npcs don't seem to have any quotes about each other on the wiki

which feels like a missed opportunity

[raven brook]

yeah they don't

[raven brook]

. p

[torn condor]

calamitas also doesn't have any quotes about the tax collector

which is a bit odd since she respects the clothier for being cursed

[raven brook]

She'd probably hate tax collector's ass he was a notorious azafurian that was exhiled for being too much of a bitch 😭 😭 😭

greedy asshole mf

[torn condor]

I had a feeling she would hate his attitude

[raven brook]

I'm not sure if that one's accurate either since i don't think Calamitas was really,,, cursed? in new lore, seems more like remnants of old lore again

Thouhg i suppose you could argue brimstone magic itself is a curse given the toll it takes onto your mind when you use it but ehh,,

[vital void]

yeah it makes judging some stuff a bit muddy imo because some stuff in game is old lore and some stuff is new lore

it creates this kind of weird in between

[raven brook]

the info in the bestiary entries is basically all up to date, so is the stuff in draedon's dialogue

Albeit the bestiary is likely still being rewritten/edited later, but less so because the information it is wrong and more so just to format things more nicely, since it feels like a bit too much of a infodump in some spots

Yharim's whispers are basically accurate too, afaik

Npc dialogue is a bit more iffy though

[eager bluff]

as accurate as information from john bias can be

[raven brook]

Well i mean in the sense that the stuff on them isn't "outdated"

Not that they're perfectly accurate objective sources of info

Though they iwll be changed later when the sending stone item or wtv its called gets added, as their replacement

[dusk laurel]

ancient mod curse strikes again 😢

[raven brook]

"<Name of Clothier> the Clothier is someone who's had a terrible experience being cursed. He's put up with it quite well all that time, it's quite impressive honestly."

Well this quote actually, i dont see anything wrong with it

I remembered it being calamitas saying he sympathizes with him as someone who was also cursed

But she dosen't really say that

She just respoects his willpower and all that

which yeah thats not contradicting anything, makes sense

[light linden]

I just want more npcs to like calamity biomes

[raven brook]

Dryad liking the sulph sea makes enough sense to me

[eager bluff]

the only whispers kinda unupdated are queen slime and i think eols hasnt been rewritten yet but queen slime is more we're waiting to see if the slime god retier even happens and eol doesnt contradict anything afaik its just a messy whisper

[raven brook]

I can see that being a thing

[light linden]

feels like there's gigantic stretches that nobody likes

[raven brook]

Silva and all that

[light linden]

iirc that's planned

her and the pirate will like it

I think wizard will like astral?

[raven brook]

As for the crags i don't think anyone would really like it and i mean
nobody in vanilla likes the underworld either so 😭

[light linden]

no no

[raven brook]

That one makes sense too

i can see the wizard and painter liking it

[light linden]

people like the underworld

[vital void]

i think a good example of this is calamitas clone iirc there's nothing in-game that indicates it's actually (as far as i can tell) supposed to be humanoid, which leaves a person who doesn't go to external non-in game sources wondering why the clone is an eyeball (feel free to pull up in-game stuff if i'm wrong though)

[light linden]

it's counted as underground

[dusk laurel]

yes

[raven brook]

yeah but the underworld specifically

[raven brook]

I think some stuff wtih draedon's dialogue is the most anyone can get , so yeah

[light linden]

@raven brook correct

[dusk laurel]

this is exactly the problem the mod is so old that it is full of contradicting information that the average player who isnt too invested in the story would never figure out

[light linden]

also

[dusk laurel]

planned

[light linden]

I do hope at least 1 npc likes the crags

[raven brook]

tax collector likes the crags

and nobody else

🔥

[light linden]

I'd expect the demolitionist to like them at least

[raven brook]

ok true

[eager bluff]

people like cavern layer not underworld and in vanilla theres now precedent for that actually mattering because theres an underworld pylon

[raven brook]

hes insane enough to like them

[light linden]

also I feel like permafrost might be at least interested in the place

might not like it but still

place he'd want to study rather than live in

[raven brook]

idk i feel like he'd not want to get involved with that stuff specially given its the place his daughter lost her entire biological family in and blew everything up

Sure he can study the necromantic effects of calamitas's magic but

[eager bluff]

i dont think he Wants to do that

[raven brook]

I feel like he wouldn't want that

yeah

😭

[light linden]

also

what npcs will like the sea?

most npcs can't live there without drowning

[eager bluff]

probably angler

[dusk laurel]

idk if permafrost could find much "study" potential in the place considering 1. hes an archmage and 2. he literally worked for yharim for decades so hes definitely gone there during the reign, and even then when calamitas and brimmy blew the place up he couldve done some studies while he was still on yharim's side

[light linden]

angler is a toss up between sulphurous sea and sunken sea

that reminds me actually

sea king will prolly hate the sulphurous sea

[wheat walrus]

yes i have

[raven brook]

i think angler would like sunken sea cuz alot of cool fish to catch

[raven brook]

also that yeah

he was a part of yharmy after all

[raven brook]

The historian npc,

would like it too i feel

whenever/if that guy becomes real

hes a crab he lives there

[light linden]

I hope the historian comes to the mod

[dusk laurel]

historian has a better chance imo

[raven brook]

same its a very cute concept

[dusk laurel]

since its not directly tied to the old plans

[light linden]

I really want 1 or 2 npcs that are from places we explicitly can't visit in game

[dusk laurel]

actual thing that a post 22 dev came up with

[eager bluff]

angler i think would dislike sulph sea because it keeps corroding his fishing hooks and lines

[dusk laurel]

technically permafrost

[light linden]

also I wonder if cyborg will like living in a draedon lab eventually

[eager bluff]

those dont count as biomes so no

[light linden]

having literally any info about the other continents would be cool

also y'all think any npcs would like space?

[dusk laurel]

the biome?

[light linden]

yes

[dusk laurel]

yeah no space is a psyop by relogic because the atmosphere cannot be that low, okay but being serious i dont really see anyone except like maybe the wizard because theres less things in the way if he wanted to use a telescope

[light linden]

I feel like calamitas would like it

or at least have something unique to say about it

since it's effectively the opposite of where she grew up

[eager bluff]

painter

[light linden]

cold, empty, and relatively peaceful

[eager bluff]

i think painter would like it

[dusk laurel]

true

constellations and anything else that appears would be good for him

[eager bluff]

i think painter would like astral too because of how funky and alien it is

[light linden]

cei said they would

I wonder if zoologist would like any biomes

I feel like she'd hate like

3 of the biomes calamity adds

[dusk laurel]

so everything except the sunken sea

[light linden]

also if we ever get the plague or gem biomes do y'all think any npcs will like them?

[dusk laurel]

gem biome is dead

its been dead since hpu retired

[eager bluff]

that was a heart only thing and shes not a dev anymore

[dusk laurel]

it wasnt even gonna be a biome

we knew it wouldve been minibiome

and heart was like the only person doing anything for it, especially since it was probably her who came up with it

[raven brook]

plague biome would probably be like the evil biomes i feel its

[light linden]

ah

[raven brook]

A unnatural completely hostile mess of a biome

[light linden]

also yeah that makes sense

[raven brook]

hpu biome

[eager bluff]

nobody wants to exist near the plague yeah

[light linden]

also if we ever get the chrysadia ruins I'd expect at least one npc to like them

[dusk laurel]

oh definitely

[raven brook]

put an npc in the plague biome

happiness quote

"THE BEES THE BEES THE BEES THE B

[dusk laurel]

[light linden]

demolitionist would prolly be the only one to like the plague

[eager bluff]

nah

[raven brook]

Historian def... maybe zoologist, theres prob alot of funky wildlife up in chrysadia

and then dwar hates it because he dosent like being high up

[eager bluff]

its not explosive enough and not fun enough to explode

[light linden]

I feel like the dryad would have

[raven brook]

its the opposite of what a ddwarf likes

[light linden]

choice words about the plague if you put her near it

[dusk laurel]

dryad would say slurs against you and draedon

[raven brook]

thanks for the input omni

[wheat walrus]

fat chud

[raven brook]

dryad would really hate the plague yeah

[light linden]

wait a sec

[wheat walrus]

makes sense

[light linden]

would the plague have literally any affect on the cyborg?

[raven brook]

He still has biological parts so probably

[eager bluff]

i dont think he would want to find out

[light linden]

fair but still

also this is a bit unrelated to lore but

are the calamity npcs going to get shimmer sprites still?

[dusk laurel]

yes

[eager bluff]

yes

[dusk laurel]

they are just

the bottom of priority

[light linden]

fair

[eager bluff]

and also because

[dusk laurel]

i think the devs are more concerned with reworking and making new npcs with actual functions, and not just shops, than doing anything with shimmer skins

[light linden]

I wonder if calamitas's will give her fire hair like brimmy

[cloud ibex]

not too fond of this image

the creature is unpleasant

[dusk laurel]

it gives off a unwholesome quality

[light linden]

I have no sweet clue what permafrost's shimmer sprite could be

[dusk laurel]

archrapper permafrost 🔥

[cloud ibex]

ski outfit

[torn condor]

depends on whether or not she knows why it's like that

probably best to leave her in the dark about it

[dusk laurel]

i mean she'd probably know that her goddess got thrown into the same ocean

multiple times even

[torn condor]

wait

is the acidity of the sulphur sea caused by silva or azafure

is this another in game lore moment

[eager bluff]

the acidity is caused by azafure

silva is what causes everything to be able to adapt as fast as it does

[long bloom]

azafure made it stinky

then draedon decided to dump plutonium in it

[split mortar]

Hey it werent me this time!

[raven brook]

She comments on it ingame

[untold forge]

literally

[cosmic zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/the-strongest-sage-with-the-weakest-crest-iris-mine-mining-pickaxe-gif-25005345

The lore mines.....

[dusk laurel]

how have the lore mines been

[cosmic zenith]

I would not be surprised if I exceed 100 pages by the end of this update

It's been very fun but veeery intensive

[wanton pendant]

We crave lore.

[dusk laurel]

thats true development for a while was a bit slow from what i know

[cosmic zenith]

For lore?

[dusk laurel]

uh just in general ig

[cosmic zenith]

Ah

Yeah, it was for a while

Right now it's at a neat pace

[wanton pendant]

I have begun writing my own lore.
Soon the Redditors will be asking about Bloingus' role in the Crusade.

[dusk laurel]

i dont know how much the lore was worked on so i cant say for sure since alot of it isnt ingame yet

[cosmic zenith]

Though still on Brainstorm hotfixes

[untold forge]

Bloingus actually ascended to godhood to become the torch god ^^

[icy veldt]

Blorbius Scrunklius cameo CONFIRMED

[terse moss]

Yo he got so powerful he migrated to Warhammer lol

[untold forge]

LMFAO

[pulsar ocean]

is this accurate

[warm gull]

warhammer 40k fans are the same demographic as people who just think german military technology from world war 2 was really cool

[sinful adder]

Absolutely

[sinful adder]

Is DoG flat on one side like an eel, or perfectly cylindrical like a worm?

And the other worm bosses for that matter

[fleet wedge]

If I had to guess, DS and AS probably are flat

[tropic quartz]

i think theyre all cylinders

[terse moss]

I think DS and AS are flat but DoG specifically is a tube

[warm gull]

what about astral deuce

[woeful hatch]

Astrum deus is caterpillar like

[warm gull]

tofu mind virus

[sinful adder]

I think that based on the fact they have spikes on the sides, but not spikes on the middle, that they're flat

Because they're not perfectly rotationally symmetrical

I can remember what it was but I think I saw a 3d worm boss on YouTube at some point

Like the segments were animated in 3d

[icy veldt]

What does this even mean

[warm gull]

the lore of this message is up to you

[wheat walrus]

StinkyChungus26

[pulsar ocean]

replace 2 with 6 and add 1 to the second number

[wheat walrus]

StinkyChungus67 !!

[raven brook]

lziar

lizart

[wanton pendant]

Really flat lizards.

[pulsar ocean]

fat

[split mortar]

Pancake

[wanton pendant]

You see the vision.

[split mortar]

Eat

[robust osprey]

@fierce pagoda that you?

[dusk laurel]

colgator after enduring my gauntlets

[fleet wedge]

Cans ||(Colgator after not surviving)||

[robust osprey]

cans homestuck

omg I am starting to see homestuck references

I might be already cooked

[raw nest]

Lorewise what would happen if the terrarian drained the abyss into the underworld right on top of the brimstone crags

[plucky juniper]

mist ocean

[spare pier]

You'd flood the Crags

[dusk laurel]

ecological disaster

[split mortar]

Hell torture

[plucky juniper]

volcanism

[raw nest]

I wonder how the demons and alike would fare against the deeper creatures of the abyss flooding into their home

[wanton pendant]

They would die.

[raw nest]

Assuming the water doesn’t evaporate first due to all the lava and stuff maybe

[split mortar]

The demons die to the water and the fish die to the absurd heat and higher amount of air then they’re used to probably

If we ignore that then the deep fish like wyrms and such tear even brimstone elemental or wall of flesh apart imo

[terse moss]

Why are the deep fish so strong

They are just fish

[wanton pendant]

Yeah but the pressure down there is immense.
But they are still able to say no to drugs.

That takes strength.

[plucky juniper]

actually the real issue is that most of that water is going to flash to steam and explode

brimmy's power is nothing in comparsion to the fury of a phreatic eruption

[sinful adder]

This is a weird scenario to analyze because in real life it's impossible to have a cave like that with lava in it. The cave would just fill up with lava and harden

Doubly impossible under an ocean

[plucky juniper]

i mean

[sinful adder]

Since the abyss is connected to the world's oceans, I can only speculate that the entire underworld should flood and solidify into basically something equal to layer 3 of the abyss

[plucky juniper]

its implied in terraria that water does turn into steam, given it straight up vanishes when it enters the underworld

[sinful adder]

But the fact that this hasn't happened shows there must be some sort of magic keeping the world stable

[plucky juniper]

so clearly that place is hot enough to steam water away

[sinful adder]

And keeping the oceans from ever leaking I to the underworld

[plucky juniper]

now, usually that water isnt very much

[sinful adder]

That should only make the problem worse, yeah. Basically the entire underworld should explode and blow up through to the surface

[plucky juniper]

BUT. if the water from the abyss suddenly started cascading downwards, especially in the brimstone crags, which are probably hotter than the rest of the underworld

id probably guess a large steam explosion could start

[sinful adder]

Or I guess more likely you'd get a giant crater where the walls of the abyss collapse and form giant rubble piles on the edges of the crags stopping any further flow

Second possibility: the rock doesn't collapse. The steam looks for the easiest way out, which is sideways. An expanding wall of scalding steam explodes outwards, filling the entire underworld from the crags, until the heat is all used up or the oceans are fully drained

If the heat is used up then the underworld floods and becomes more abyss. If the oceans are drained, well, no more oceans

I think there's probably an equilibrium where the abyss drains but not all the oceans are lost, and you get a permanent waterfall downwards through the abyss into the crags, fueling a hell filled with steam, which then makes its way up through the caves and into the sky, causing rain. You might call this a sort of rain world

This is basically a natural geothermal reactor

[plucky juniper]

honestly i think it'll probably collapse because a lot of the rock is just being held up but water

[sinful adder]

The abyss rock is like, supernaturally strong

It should have already collapsed if that were the case. Water is a fluid and can move out of the way

[light linden]

They're extremophiles

And they constantly have outside factors messing with them

Draedon, Silva, Xeroc (possibly?) the Dragon Cult, and Azafure have all messed with that place

[dusk laurel]

xeroc only threw the terminus in

draedon just seems to be monitoring the place (laserfish)

and the other 3 definitely did shit

unintentionally or not

well okay the dragon cult uh

some offshoot branch of it is there and

they worship primordial wyrm and thats kinda it

so not rlly now that i think abt it

[light linden]

Well they're still an invasive species with magic

[dusk laurel]

thats not really

no they just live there

[light linden]

He dumped a bunch of nuclear stuff making the upper levels hellish

[light linden]

Invasive

[dusk laurel]

that only affects the sulphurous sea

[dusk laurel]

okay i get your point

[light linden]

Are you familiar with the concept of marine snow?

[dusk laurel]

yes

[light linden]

Decent chance trace amounts of toxic crap keeps falling to the lower levels

As marine snow

And regardless it's created an artificial barrier in the ocean

Well a 2nd one

Species have to be adapted to low water pressure and radiation levels to go to the higher levels

And considering how him dumping that stuff was very recent

Large lifeforms can't adapt to that very easily in such a short time

[fierce pagoda]

pinged... in lore chat!?!?

Haven't dabbled in Cal lore since forever!

I think we did, but did we learn Moonlords true nature?

[dusk laurel]

distortion creature that invaded terraria and can take over auric souls somewhat

those are the main things that we learned in the new update

[fierce pagoda]

you know who else is a distortion creature?

[dusk laurel]

you

[fierce pagoda]

true #distorted

[wanton pendant]

Homophobic, I know.

I would have thought he would be better.

[fierce pagoda]

fuuuck...

[agile matrix]

wait ml is from distortion

is every bad thing from the distortion

every computer thing is draedon, every evil thing is distortion

[split mortar]

Yeah said so in bestiary

[agile matrix]

we just need every good thing to source from a d thing and we're 100% controlled by the letter d

[spare pier]

This Feels Reductive

[agile matrix]

moderately so

i remember someone making the comment that they didnt like how most tech can source back to draedon

[spare pier]

I Agree With The Draedon Part

Not The Distortion Part

[agile matrix]

i mean

Moon Lord
DoG
Noxus, Big Guy Supreme
intentional hyperbole is intentional hyperbole though

[split mortar]

Yeah i see the issue with draedon but i dont really know how that could have went differently since draedon is a superintelligent ai dropped on a industrial revolution advanced world effectively

Granted it is also late so my brain mot that functiomins

[dusk laurel]

its a whole ass "dimension" with its own unique biosphere and using 3 highly powerful beings to describe the whole place is a bit

yk

[agile matrix]

once more, intentional hyperbole

i love the distortion in concept

[split mortar]

DoG feels eh to use since dog is an extension of noxus

[split mortar]

This sign cant stop me i forgot the words definition

[agile matrix]

he is?

[wanton pendant]

Yharim and Yharon aren't from the Distortion and they're the number one problem on Terraria.

[wanton pendant]

Exaggeration.

[split mortar]

I see

[split mortar]

Did you not know

[agile matrix]

i did not know no i thought he was just a sentient straw

not like an arm

[dusk laurel]

extension isnt limited to just physicality

[split mortar]

i didnt mean that

[dusk laurel]

the yharmy can be considered an "extension" of yharim, but obviously theyre separate and have their own thoughts and missions that arent fully aligned with his

[agile matrix]

aah i see

i mean realistically cant you consider all trees extensions of the first tree in terms of keeping the descendancy of the tree alive

[raven brook]

signus is from the distortion and hes not really a john evilguy atleast not completely

hes more of a john neutralguy

[sudden barn]

why is lore discussion only when im having class😢

[hollow pivot]

How long is the gap between when the Crusade more-or-less stopped and the Terrarian's arrival?

[dusk laurel]

its mostly stopped like a year or less before the game begins

theres still yharmy soldiers around

[hollow pivot]

Oh wow I thought the game takes place decades after.

[dusk laurel]

but like its not as organized since yharim isnt there and also most of the major figured like perma or draedon

[hollow pivot]

Or Calamitas, or Dog, or Yharon.

[dusk laurel]

dog is still here

ie when he helped yharim by throwing braelor and statis into the distortion

like obviously yharims in the aerie but hes not like free of being part of the remaining crusade influence

basically he's not apart of it because it ended not because he left

bro has to collect more god essence

[long bloom]

yharim got his ass beat by the yaoi duo, upgraded his armor and fucked off to the aerie like 6 months to a year before the game starts

[dusk laurel]

yeha

"never speak to draedon again" my ass

[long bloom]

wait

calling braelor and statis the woke left is funnier

[dusk laurel]

😭

[hollow pivot]

What if we just call them Braelor and Statis?

[long bloom]

yawn

[languid badge]

cant believe dog sent the woke left to the urple dimension, heartbreaking

[warm gull]

I hope that signus sells a braelor voodoo doll when he turns into a merchant specifically so you can split up the only gay couple in the game

[terse moss]

Are status and braelor stronger than or weaker than SCal

[graceful warren]

Okay so I was talking about this in a different conversation but how many dragons did it take to seal full power moon lord again

[hollow pivot]

From what I know, there were originally 3,000~ Auric Dragons.
Half the dragons (1,500~) were killed by the Moon Lord Fovos.
Then the rest of the dragons,(1,499~) - Apart from Yharon - were used to ascend.

[long bloom]

we dunno

somewhere between 2 and ~1499 as stated above

[real silo]

pesky alien extermination service for JUST 1499

[feral skiff]

i think we should cite our sources in this channel

and any messages that do not cite their sources should have [CITATION NEEDED] next to them

[long bloom]

@split mortar

[sinful adder]

I find it surprising that literally half of all the dragons were killed directly by fovos

Maybe they died to the pillars he made

That would make more sense

[latent flower]

agreed

[long bloom]

perhaps both

[latent flower]

fovos was just moving different back then

[split mortar]

Thats like
My entire existence

[graceful warren]

Is there a reason the poltergeist looks like beetle or is that gonna be changed

[latent flower]

no real lore reason i don't think

he's just like that

😭

[graceful warren]

I saw the respite the planned and they made him look like a undead spirit knight

So hopefully that actually happens

[pulsar ocean]

This idea fucking sucks

[feral skiff]

wikipedia does it

that’s why they have remained the free and trustable encyclopedia for 2 decades

[split mortar]

I think theres a difference between this chat and wikipedia

[pulsar ocean]

How am I gonna spread factual information that’s not yet publicly available

Like noxus creating fovos

[split mortar]

Link dev statements that no one have access to

[feral skiff]

what if it’s misinformation actually

what if it’s lies and deceit..

[terse moss]

full on Warthunder it

[scenic yacht]

you dont know if its real information or misinformation until its explicitly revealed

[raven brook]

Noxus is my dad.

This has been confirmed.

[latent flower]

by hoo

🦉

[scenic olive]

he goes to distortion to get milk and never came back

🥀

[raven brook]

john calamity

who owns all the calmaity

alamity

calamity

[raven brook]

yeah this happened

[dusk laurel]

did you learn the art of wormcrafting

[raven brook]

of course. its the family business

[robust osprey]

make a worm then

[normal mantle]

Does the defiled greatsword & its downgrades have any lore importance? I swear they used to be like actually related to yharim before

[split mortar]

They used to literally be yharims swords somehow iirc
They are now just weapons you can craft i think

[green prairie]

Defiled Greatsword used to literally be called True Tyrant's Ultisword

hilariously this rename was NOT in the big rewriting the lore update, but rather the 1.4.4 port

[split mortar]

Lol?

[green prairie]

to be fair that is when it got all of its new flashy effects

[wanton pendant]

Its upgrade also explicitly claimed to be BETTER than Yharim's actual sword.

[split mortar]

Damn
The post scal character has a what pre ml sword?

[late forge]

why would more than one blood orange kill you

or any fruit in general like miracle fruit

[thick slate]

diabetes

[long bloom]

it tells you in the chat

if you try to eat another

[analog spindle]

Does Calamitas have any other magic outside of what we see used?

[long bloom]

she used ice magic to create cryogen

[pulsar ocean]

shes the brimstone witch tho

[split mortar]

Kozz shenanigans

[analog spindle]

turns out brimstone is just really hot ice

[graceful warren]

Question when do you think Yharim actions were no longer justified in the lore

[long bloom]

we don't know enough to decide a turning point

[split mortar]

I mean id consider as soon as he targeted innocent people and gods to be when
We dunno when that happened timeline wise but it did happen at some point

[agile matrix]

i think when he decided to create small towns and therefore tax would be bad

[graceful warren]

Yeah taxes are pretty evil not gonna lie

[hoary cape]

I would imagine when he started burning people at the stake just for being associated with a god is probably one of the major turning points in that direction

[terse moss]

One of the points has to be the burning of Illmeris

That seems like quite the escalation

[zenith geode]

she specialises in brimstone but she's still a damn good mage

[icy veldt]

The moment he started listening to Yharon at all. From then on, it was inevitable that he would commit the horrific atrocities that he did

[terse moss]

How is Yharon, morally

He’s obviously not great but none of them really are

[agile matrix]

from a very unknowledgable perspective, very not happy with humanity

[eager bluff]

the worst

[icy veldt]

For someone who claims that his people were "benevolent protectors", it's a bit curious why he would be so approving of Yharim's efforts in slaughtering billions of innocents

[split mortar]

That was one of the last things of the crusade thats long into yharim being openly horrible

[zenith geode]

dragons already viewed non-dragons as below them and yharon was like the single most extreme of hat

[eager bluff]

hes like actively the worst person in calamity

[split mortar]

Right so like at minimum roughly a yharim

[split mortar]

Providence and DoG:

[long bloom]

both are fraudulent

yharon actually did things

[eager bluff]

dog is just an asshole and providence doesnt hide under any veneer

[sinful adder]

Where?

[plucky juniper]

yharon hasnt even done anything aside from save yharim from his fate

like genuinely

what has he done besides approve yharim to do the genocide thing

[split mortar]

Jump shakidou iirc
Other then that uh we dunno, prob a cal unfinished moment

[eager bluff]

push yharim to do the genocide in the first place

[plucky juniper]

okay actually im pretty sure i remember he assisted yharim in his fight against braelor and statis

[plucky juniper]

@eager bluff .

[agile matrix]

incentivize the genocide lasti checked

[plucky juniper]

-1 electron from each of your atoms for restating something i have just said

i know he egged yharim to do the thing

what else has he done

[eager bluff]

no overdone it wasnt just approval "yeah its fine that you do this"

[agile matrix]

idk

we dont have information on how Yharon torches things so like

[eager bluff]

he is the man behind the slaughter

[agile matrix]

i guess he also torches people .

[split mortar]

@plucky juniper do you lack eyes

[plucky juniper]

i lack a parietal eye

[agile matrix]

which ones shakidou

[plucky juniper]

forgot if that was a dragon or a god

[split mortar]

Emptiness, second strongest only beat by xeroc

Ate the night dragon

[plucky juniper]

second strongest god?

jesus

[wanton pendant]

God of Emptiness.

[split mortar]

Yeah

[pulsar ocean]

how does permafrost have so much more max hp than us

[split mortar]

And the strongest known by everyone else but yharim and yharon

[wanton pendant]

He's old and has eaten more Heart Crystals than you can count.

[agile matrix]

humorous: god of primordial light and god of emptiness are the two strongest

[sinful adder]

Sanguine Tangerine:
Makes your blood thicker. Eating more than one makes your blood too thick to flow
Miracle fruit: Fills you with life magic. Too much would make you explode.
Tainted Cloudberry:
Causes you to age to your prime. Eating more than one ages you to dust.
Sacred Strawberry: Gives you auric power. Too much and you'd get auric rejected from the inside.

[split mortar]

Old man vibes

[plucky juniper]

because he would probably be a boss fight if he was ever hostile to the player

[long bloom]

he actively helped yharim every step of the way

[agile matrix]

willingly, should be noted

[long bloom]

under no manipulation

[agile matrix]

yah

a knife is not evil because it kills a man, the man who used it to kill a man is evil

[wanton pendant]

They are both evil for being weak.

[long bloom]

the man is evil for being alive

[dusk laurel]

about the yharon discussion earlier, i think theres stuff being worked on to improve his characterization in the story that weve seen and ingame because, like, everyone knows he doesnt have much compared to alot of other characters besides like his old role in auric dragon society and him influencing yharim, and itd be weird if he just never had anything else elaborated or explained about him, not even much of his personality is seen ingame besides dialogue and rotjd lyrics

[plucky juniper]

its even worse because honestly i see potential in yharon

he's the last of a once mighty race of dragons that have been subsumed by humans who (most of them, probably) willingly sought great power, and he had to see all of that happen. that, i personally feel, isnt really emphasized enough ngl, its mostly yharim who gets the attention as a really fucking misguided tyrant

i think yharon should be more overall treated like an anti-villain rather than an overt villain, but i dont think thats how hes being written

hes more over said to be just a haughty asshole from the start

[dusk laurel]

yharon does have a thing over yharim and its his entire society being wiped out but he also caused yharim in the first place because not only was he literally supposed to be absorbed by yharim, he then saved him and trauma dumped about the past 700 years and everything hes lost, obviously with his own spin, molding yharim into the person we know, given who yharim is and the fact yharon wanted revenge, and like he was literally the center of dragon society, he definitely is a villain, although a bit different from yharim given his past

i dont think we know enough about pre ml invasion yharon, so im just making assumptions on what he would be like/how it affected him in the future

[terse moss]

If these effects are so severe and potent, why do they only give 25 max hp and not like 100+

Especially since life fruit gives 100

And life crystals give 300

[long bloom]

gameplay

[raven brook]

you really cant write a guy that supports mass genocide as a anti villain

[dusk laurel]

^

[raven brook]

You are conflating making a character have au nderstandable motivation with making them sympathethic

[terse moss]

I don’t think a bit more max health would be game breaking

Max health kinda doesn’t matter

It would just be more thematically sound imo

[graceful warren]

Personally if my race was being used a fodder to make humans archive god hood. I would be pretty pissed too

[long bloom]

that doesn't mean you wipe out half the world population

[terse moss]

Yharon can be understandable while also not being good or justified

[raven brook]

^

[plucky juniper]

not really related to my point, but i feel like there's been a bigger effort to emphasize the villainy of yharim more recently

[raven brook]

Yharon dosen't need to be a good person to be a well written character

Cuz he's veryt mucn ot a good person no matter whcih way you cut it

[plucky juniper]

ya

[graceful warren]

Fair but I mean he still had a reason for it.

[raven brook]

Yeah, again

[long bloom]

obviously??

[raven brook]

understandable =/ sympathethic

Having you be able to undertand why a villain does the actions they do and how theyt reached this point is good writing

It dosen't mean that motivation has to excuse their actions

[graceful warren]

I mean ultimately revenge stories rarely end with the person doing the revenge being a good person

[raven brook]

unless ur doomguy

[plucky juniper]

i dont intend on actually saying yharon should be a saint, im saying that yharon should be more understandable

[dusk laurel]

im gonna make a simple comparison, up to 3000 dragons that can be continuously revived or hundreds of millions of people and the diverse environments they live in

[terse moss]

That’s special because demons are shown to be ontologically evil, not coincidentally so

[plucky juniper]

anyhow i need to complain about something else

[raven brook]

yeah doomguy is a story about revenge and hes a good person

cuz hes awesome like that

[plucky juniper]

and that is out of the purview of this chat

[plucky juniper]

its a revenge story that is justified because these demons are straight up threatening humanity and everyone else to begin with, somebody's gotta stop them
and well, doomguy, a guy who has a grudge against demons, just happens to be really fucking good at killing them

[graceful warren]

I think he is understandable. His race was used a fodder for human to achieve god hood. He watched human kill dragon after dragon. To him all human other than Yharim and people allied with him are the enemy

[plucky juniper]

better than anyone else

[long bloom]

i tried playing doom 2016 and barely got through the intro before going back to ultrakill

[plucky juniper]

i know that not all auric dragons didnt get killed to get absorbed, nor were all of them not necesarily good to begin with

i mean i already talked about how yharon is apparently not good even back then

[long bloom]

nobody's saying they don't understand yharon's actions 😭

[graceful warren]

My bad

[long bloom]

we're saying it's still not justified

[terse moss]

Like imagine if you watched ants kill your entire town. Does that justify you killing every ant on earth? No. Are you perfectly understandably upset, yes (except in this case the ants are sentient ig)

[graceful warren]

Okay yeah they are unjustified but I think that unjustifcation makes him a good character

[raven brook]

Yharon genuinely feels immense sorrow at the death of his comrades and that adds a layer of tragedy to his character, but he was still a major symbol of oppression and started a genocide against gods

You can have a bad person still show empathy and have aspects of tragedy to their character

[long bloom]

i agree

[graceful warren]

Also alot of the gods were just really bad people

[raven brook]

Well idk if i'd say alot

We dunno the exact ratio atm

[long bloom]

i'm willing to bet it's not the majority

[raven brook]

But some of them were yeah

[plucky juniper]

i think the real moral of the story about calamity is that commiting genocide to avenge a group that got genocided is actually still evil

[graceful warren]

Well we know the ravanger is pretty evil. At this point its less a god and more a force of nature

In the lore im pretty sure it stated ravanger lost like all connections to its former self

[raven brook]

Not like that matters to yharom or yharim, since their crusade was not about their enemy's moral standing to begin with, it was basically just about their identity and the idea they are ontologically evil

[long bloom]

mindless zombie yeah

[sinful adder]

I imagine they're relative to your natural vitality and you're just a wimpy human. But also gameplay.

[raven brook]

Idk if i'd call ravager evil

It depends on how sapient it is

Which

It isn't very i don't think

What i'd call ravager is destructive

[terse moss]

Isn’t Yharim also just a human?

[raven brook]

Killing it is basically an act of mercy

[cloud ibex]

providence is evil

[raven brook]

Yeha if you wanted to use an example ofa evil god

providence is a much better one

[terse moss]

Ravager is like a feral dog

[raven brook]

fully conscious deity

[cloud ibex]

rav seems to kinda just be. bobm

[terse moss]

It’s just doing stuff

[long bloom]

providence is jane evil

[raven brook]

whos doing heinous shit

like the only character whos more evil than yharim levels of heinous

[terse moss]

Providence is just a hater

[graceful warren]

I mean the person did kill the dragon knowing what power it represented and willing took it. Im sorry but taking a dragon who is control of sacrifice really sound like a good idea

[raven brook]

'1. We don't know if Agnus killed ti

[long bloom]

nuance

[raven brook]

2. It was the dragon of death, not sacrifice

[terse moss]

The dragon might have also been super evil

[raven brook]

Sacrifice was Agnus's domain

[terse moss]

Idk if a death dragon would be the nicest

[plucky juniper]

unrelated
i know that trying to undo the damage done to auric dragons isnt seemingly possible, but i do wonder if this point could be further hammered in by talking about failed attempts by yharon and yharim to resurrect auric dragons before their demise

[graceful warren]

Sorry death my bad

[raven brook]

3. Agnus was probably one of the most genuinely selfless and kind gods we know of them all

[long bloom]

dragonfol 💥

[cloud ibex]

agnus is calamity jesus

[raven brook]

• Eidolists
• Phantasmal Dragons
• The Dragon cult's whole thing

[graceful warren]

I mean early on in the story the dragon were kinda the good guys. I mean the saved the world from moon lord

[plucky juniper]

i feel like going in that angle could be a good way to flesh out yharon's character

[raven brook]

Not necessarily good guys, really

If your planet, that you live in

[terse moss]

The world they lived in

[raven brook]

is about to blow up

[terse moss]

Yeah

[long bloom]

nuance

[raven brook]

You're gonna naturally protect it regardless of whether you're good or not

[long bloom]

dragon society was pretty fucked up

[raven brook]

Some dragons were good,

Not all of them though

[graceful warren]

But i mean I guess that action was really just because they lived there

[agile matrix]

arent eidolists and the dragon cult the same guys or

[raven brook]

And dragon society in general was pretty opressive

[raven brook]

Eidolists are a sub-sect of it

[long bloom]

defectors, if you will

[terse moss]

Also, the sacrifice god being calamity Jesus and then Yharim just ripping him in half long ways is kinda funny

[raven brook]

Humans lived underground, Dragons lived on the surface, Dragons were seen as superior beings with undisputed rule over hte world and nboody could really do anything about it

Cuz unlike gods

Dragons were a fully organized society

[plucky juniper]

@graceful warren theres actually one really big thing that you probably are not aware of

so uh, zeratros, the primordial light dragon? the guy who has power over the sun?
apparently he actually used that to make the surface of terraria uninhabitable to humans. supposedly for protection, but this isnt really a good thing anyways

[raven brook]

While gods are far more independent

[dusk laurel]

if we're going by this route, what did the dragons do for humans and other sapient species? the king of the dragons let the sun bake the surface to the point much life had to retreat to the surface, and other dragons seemed content and accepting of this, the only dragon we know of who tried was vetrasyl, ebing involved with the creation of chrysadia and protecting the people there, and hes like the only fully good one we know of. yharon, obviously, wanted revenger after the gods started to emerge, but theres also the flame dragon, who literally was banished to hell, a place where there werent any dragons but certainly alot of other things, like humans, demons, etc. this is just them putting away their problems and making it someone else's. other dragons existed but we dont know much about them, so we cant say much about them, like theres death who hid himself away for a mostly unknown reason, but he also just kills things by being around them, not that hes evil, but hes literally a threat. im not including dragon offshoots because one theyre not included with the auric dragons, and also they evidently werent cared about.
if anything, this shows alot more about how things arent just black and white, like some dragons did fucked up things, some mightve wanted to help, and others we dont know enough about, and also like people have said, not all gods are evil

[graceful warren]

Also didn't DoG betray Yharim

[raven brook]

Let's say there's a tyrannical god

[agile matrix]

wall of text goodness

[plucky juniper]

wall of text god

[raven brook]

You can kill that tyrannical god

Assuming it does not have god buddy connections,

gg, you win

now lets say theres a tyrnicall dragon

[long bloom]

you can't betray someone you've never been loyal to

[raven brook]

you are now going to be persecuted and juged by crimes against dragonkind if not outright killed

fight 1 god you're probably just fighting 1 god
fight 1 dragon you're fighting 5 morbillion dragons

[dusk laurel]

im wall of text maxxing (im trying to not separate my messages as often since its harder to organize and get a point across)

[raven brook]

dragon society was not the Best, even if there were definitely good dragons and they did in fact have a role as "Protectors" of the world

do note that they were not

the protectors of life, or humanity

or anything else

but the world

[agile matrix]

isnt that also a strength in terms of dragonkind

[long bloom]

they were simply protecting themselves

[agile matrix]

the gods werent really one union but the dragons were all very close

[raven brook]

I never said it wasn't, in fact i am implying much the opposite

[graceful warren]

Yeah I mean I guess it was more of a compromise than loyalty. Basically Yharim need a way to get rid of the gods corpses and DoG was hungry

[raven brook]

This entire statement is about how dragonkind was unified and unbeatable in a way gods could never be

[agile matrix]

ahh i see

[cloud ibex]

*unless you're the goat ML

[terse moss]

Then why did they get jumped so hard

[dusk laurel]

the cl,osest thing to a unified group of gods was the god council that invluded dogma and war

[cloud ibex]

he is simply Him

[raven brook]

Thus making dragon society far, far more oppresive to any other sapient beings

[raven brook]

Because moonlord

[long bloom]

fovos is an outlier adn should not have been counted

[terse moss]

Even after that tho

[dusk laurel]

the dragons were jsut beaten the shit out of by moon lord and probably havent faced a real threat in generations

[terse moss]

Like after ML, half of the dragons are still alive

[raven brook]

The dragon's leader was dead, a bunch of dragons died, and they left the aerie each to do their own thing

[terse moss]

Hm

[raven brook]

They were no longer unified and their society had no stability left

[cloud ibex]

ML hardcountered the dragons

[graceful warren]

I mean almost off of Yharim allies betrayed him at one point

[terse moss]

I just don’t know how a human could best a dragon to the point where it’s weak enough to have its soul yoinked

[raven brook]

Idk if i'd say betrayed mosto f them

[graceful warren]

Or weren't loyal to him from the start

[raven brook]

Just left

[long bloom]

because

1. there were only half as many dragons left
2. zeratros is dead
3. anybody strong enough can permanently kill any dragon now

[agile matrix]

statistically, 50% of things are effective against dragons*
*fovos was an outliter and should not have been counted

[raven brook]

(Deserved)

Permafrost and Calamitas just Left

Becuz theyt realized yharim is a evil asshole ghoul

Draedon got kicked out

[terse moss]

How strong is Permafrost,

[raven brook]

DoG... never really did anything hes kinda just doing his own thing

[cloud ibex]

he nullified their auric soul powers or whatever, plus he had an entire army at his disposal from said souls, and he was incredibly tenacious

[raven brook]

None of these were really betrayals

[terse moss]

Like Providence, SCal, higher?

[plucky juniper]

actually

considering ML's power is suspiciously reminiscent of DoG (and how apparently both of them are from the Distortion), i wonder how DoG could've fared if he showed up

[dusk laurel]

like imagine youre this pampered dragon that just had much of your family, and you, get pummeled, and then the people below you start to hunt you because of a myriad of factors, oh and zeratros is also dead

[raven brook]

Definitely not scal lol

He's noit a figther

doubt he's even post m

post ml

[plucky juniper]

i think he was absorbing their powers

[long bloom]

mm

idk

[plucky juniper]

imagine fighting a guy whos also subsuming your powers and using them against you

that

[raven brook]

he was absorbing their souls and shitting it out as pillars

[graceful warren]

I mean Draedon was busy doing his own thing and was basically just using Yharim for his resources

[long bloom]

[plucky juniper]

is pretty unfair for you, ngl

[raven brook]

Yeah but that isn't betrayal

[terse moss]

LOL

[agile matrix]

still cannot get over the fact the pillars are just

[raven brook]

Yharim signed up for this

[agile matrix]

shit

they're Poop

[raven brook]

That was the deal

[graceful warren]

Also Yharim really didn't like what he did to the queen bee

[raven brook]

Genuinely none of Yharim's major allies betrayed him except arguably Draedon

[eager bluff]

it was all at once and they werent prepared

[terse moss]

Yharim might be a mass murdering psychopath, but killing a large bee? Now that’s too far

[long bloom]

calamitas "betrayed" him by not killing permafrost but that's it

[cloud ibex]

that's pretty funny honestly

[plucky juniper]

@terse moss bees are superior lifeforms to both dragons and humans, how about you read a book

[long bloom]

enslaving

[graceful warren]

I mean Draedon didn't kill it just basically torture it into a killing machine

[agile matrix]

draedon i think is one of the few they're still in like. baaaaaaarely fineish relation

[raven brook]

And while what Draedon did does go against Yharim's moral code... Draedon himself basically goes "Why are you mad at me for doing this when you consistently do things far more damaging to the world"

Like

[agile matrix]

like ofc they're not Friends

[raven brook]

PBG is fucked up, yes

the plague is fucked up

[agile matrix]

but Draedon made him armor

[cloud ibex]

yeah no yharim didn't have a problem with a bee being murdered as much as he had a problem with a Anything being enslaved

[raven brook]

but Yharim spreads the idea is the worst thing ever

[terse moss]

Yharim didn’t enslave anyone, he just killed then and their families if they didn’t do what he said

[raven brook]

When in reality, frankly

As bad as the plague is

[long bloom]

thgis

[raven brook]

Yharim did alot worse yeah

[plucky juniper]

i dont even think draedon noticed there was a problem with what yharim does tbh

draedon is draedon