lore-discussion

[agile matrix]

But No.

[young socket]

itd literally juet be retinazer

yea thas wat i mean

[agile matrix]

exo mechs? they cant all be just rehashes of their previous

[magic epoch]

i haven't played terraria in too long jfc

[eager bluff]

scal added in 1.1.7
calclone added actually in 1.1 nvm calclone was added before scal

[agile matrix]

lmfao

[young socket]

she tries to hover directly above thr player

[long bloom]

what ai is whispering maelstrom

[agile matrix]

i think thats just a really bad tracking ai tbh

[long bloom]

it's skeletron isn't it

enraged

[young socket]

iirc calclone used to be calamitas but then fab wanted calamitas 2 as the final challenge

[agile matrix]

... it cant be skeletron.

[young socket]

so 1 became clone and the other became supreme

[agile matrix]

skeletrons too fast and onetaps

[long bloom]

modified

[magic epoch]

they can change damage and speed values can they not

[long bloom]

all boss ais are modified

[agile matrix]

at that point everythings a modification from eoc

[magic epoch]

but also i don't think it's that hard to make an ai that just follows the player

[agile matrix]

since they modified the stats

and just "added some things"

[long bloom]

true but we're talking about fabsol here

[agile matrix]

it really shouldnt be

[young socket]

its the simplest thing u can do with an ai

[agile matrix]

no the simplest is having them look at them

[magic epoch]

did he even make maelstrom

[agile matrix]

since all you need a line

[eager bluff]

i believe we theorized it to be butchered moon lord ai or something but i dont actually know i think they might even be fully unique outside of thanatos

[agile matrix]

no he made the meatballs

[long bloom]

it used to be the brimstone monsters

[agile matrix]

the Brimstone Monsters

[young socket]

like its wat azzy told me to do when he first told me how to make an ai minion

[long bloom]

but the ai barely changed

[agile matrix]

fuckass baseball team

exo mechs?

thanatos is just AS im half sure but the other two are somewhat unique

[magic epoch]

thanatos definitely isn't as

[young socket]

exo mechs is mostly original but theyre just shit

[magic epoch]

thanatos is as much aquatic scourge as it is any other worm

[young socket]

ares and twins code for staying on the screen is taken from eol tho

[agile matrix]

its either destroyer (fitting) or as (somehow)

[magic epoch]

it actively goes away from you for half of the time

[agile matrix]

okay thats like

[young socket]

after she teleports above you

[agile matrix]

one code scrap

[magic epoch]

i don't think any other worm does that

[agile matrix]

that is a very minor thing

[magic epoch]

besides like

dog purple?

kinda?

[long bloom]

dog

[agile matrix]

DoG being a crawltipede hurts my soul

[eager bluff]

yeah thats the entirety of ares' movement

[agile matrix]

dudes the triultimate boss and is literally a fucking crawltipede

[magic epoch]

dog blue grounded yea true

ig

[agile matrix]

dudes on the COVER ART of the MUSIC ALBUM

and he's a crawltipede

[long bloom]

[eager bluff]

like sure its one code scrap but at the same time

ares doesnt move otherwise

[agile matrix]

i mean moving one code scrap is mostly fine isnt it

its stealing entire chunks for the ai that isnt

[eager bluff]

yeah outside of projectiles that is literally what fabsol did for ares

[agile matrix]

exceptional

okay so like literally every boss except hive mind who sucks and the maelstrom maybe is a ripped ai

[eager bluff]

as i said ares doesnt move when its not acting as a png

[long bloom]

guardians are unique i think

[agile matrix]

ah yes

the
guardians

[eager bluff]

guardians i think and definitely cv

cv is unique it just sucks

[agile matrix]

cv sucks though so we dont mention them

they dont get invited to the part

[long bloom]

signus is also reaper/wraith btw

[agile matrix]

so hive mind who you beat by running in a circle and guardians who you beat by running in a circle

[mighty zenith]

i know for a fact guardians used to be the solar pillar rock enemies

[agile matrix]

and cv who you beat by hitting them with the noxus sprayer

[long bloom]

RIGHT

corite

[agile matrix]

Dude.

can this guy stop using corites

or just. solar enemies. in general.

[mighty zenith]

its ok he cant use them anymore

😊

[long bloom]

yharim will have selenian ai

[eager bluff]

we killed the horse dont worry

[mighty zenith]

crawltipede ai

[agile matrix]

sm1 make a mod that if the ai is just another mobs ai, the boss instadies

[eager bluff]

fighter ai

[mighty zenith]

yharim worm

[agile matrix]

it will have the ai of a ooa enemy

[pulsar ocean]

Yharim will have skeletron prime ai

[agile matrix]

he will be a hemogoblin sharkk

[long bloom]

no that's xeroc

[agile matrix]

xeroc will have boss rush, which sucks

[stark basalt]

guys

is xerocs rock a skipping stone

i need to know

is this canon

is xeroc a stone skipper

[agile matrix]

its a rock

[eager bluff]

fabsol doesnt know hemogoblin shark exists i think so it wouldnt even be that

[agile matrix]

he pulled it from the ground and he liked it

[agile matrix]

sob

[long bloom]

paladin ai

[agile matrix]

yharim is not coming until at least 75% of the bosses have unique ais

aka this will be a while

(or you could play other addons to make the bosses Not Fabsol™)

[stark basalt]

will yharim be on terraria 1.3

[agile matrix]

no

[mighty zenith]

more like all of them

[stark basalt]

sadge

[agile matrix]

no because some of them can be vanilla ais

like uhhh

[mighty zenith]

they'll be improved past that though

[agile matrix]

who do i hate... which boss doesnt deserve a custom ai....

old duke

he will instead rot

[mighty zenith]

he's getting fish of theseus'd

[stark basalt]

nah old duke is great!

[hybrid barn]

So technically, he can

[stark basalt]

dragonfolly needs unique ai

[mighty zenith]

no more duke 2

[stark basalt]

dragonfolly is the most boring bossfight

[pulsar ocean]

You think yharim hates xeroc cuz he stole the rock

[stark basalt]

he just chucks babies at you

[mighty zenith]

folly is okay

it is nowhere near the worst boss in calamity

[eager bluff]

folly is mothron it is NOT okay

[mighty zenith]

(cough ravager cough)

[stark basalt]

what is the worst boss

ravager is great

[mighty zenith]

i mean. in comparison

[stark basalt]

he is so bad that it is great

[eager bluff]

ravager

in current it is just ravager

[mighty zenith]

for fabsol boss standards its ok

which means its bad

[pulsar ocean]

Yharim will have current cnidrion ai

[eager bluff]

indev before the horse was eliminated it was dog but in public its ravager

[hybrid barn]

Cough cough Calamitas cough Clone- cough cough

[agile matrix]

yharim will actually be a zombie ai

[stark basalt]

id say my top 3 most boring bosses are

1. yharon
2. dragonfolly
3. SCAL

[mighty zenith]

calclone is bad but ravager is genuinely the worst boss ive ever fought

[agile matrix]

BUT

he cant break doors

[mighty zenith]

like i am sorry i fucking HATE its fight

please fix it please give me my flesh gorilla

[hybrid barn]

At least Ravager makes you feel something

CalClone is genuinely just boring

[eager bluff]

calclone is bad because its just retinazer 2

[stark basalt]

ravager is great

[mighty zenith]

ravager makes me feel hate

[agile matrix]

dude i cannot wait for this boss to move like a chimpanzee

[stark basalt]

yharon and scal are probably the worst bosses

[mighty zenith]

calclone is still second place tho dont get me wrong

[magic epoch]

please give ravager an attack where it punches you big

[stark basalt]

scal is only decent because the dialogue and music

same with yharon

[agile matrix]

this guys gonna move like an actual rabid fiend and i am FOR it

[eager bluff]

not because the fight is actively Horrible or anything like ravager is its just the same exact boss you just fought like 2 bosses ago

[stark basalt]

the music carries

if it had buns music it would be a boring boss fight

[mighty zenith]

they're both garbage for different reasons entirely

i'd just rather feel nothing than hatred during a boss fight im supposed to enjoy

[hybrid barn]

Exactly! And with better gear, so it's kind of just a cakewalk

[mighty zenith]

thats every single boss

[stark basalt]

feeling hatred is better than feeling nothing

[hybrid barn]

You are not meant to fight Retinazer with post-Cryogen gear

[mighty zenith]

every boss is "carried" by its good music

[stark basalt]

no

hell no

at least not DOG

[dusk laurel]

dog is carried

[mighty zenith]

oh absolutely DoG

DoG fucking sucks rn

[stark basalt]

i wouldnt know

[dusk laurel]

dog is one of the most atrocious bosses i have ever fought

[stark basalt]

i did one run on1 .4

im a 1.3 goblin

[dusk laurel]

he hasnt changed

[stark basalt]

oh

[mighty zenith]

no he did change

[stark basalt]

so his music is still ass

got it

[mighty zenith]

for the worse

it was bad already it just got worse

[dusk laurel]

true

[hybrid barn]

I think DoG might be carried more than most bosses, in part because the fight isn't great and in part because the music is just that good

[stark basalt]

any music in calamity that isnt upbeat or very solemn

that is pixel

is ass

unless lyrics

[mighty zenith]

what

does that even mean

[stark basalt]

pixel genre

[mighty zenith]

tf is pixel music

😭

[hybrid barn]

Chiptune?

[stark basalt]

pixel is like

90% of video game music

[dusk laurel]

what is pixel music

[mighty zenith]

???

[stark basalt]

have you guys

[magic epoch]

Are you in the year 2004

[stark basalt]

not heard that genre

before

[hybrid barn]

I'm guessing chiptune, but does Calamity have chiptune songs?

[mighty zenith]

no???

[stark basalt]

what

[young socket]

more like 1994

[magic epoch]

i don't think?

so

[stark basalt]

i had dm dokuro as my top artist on spotify

[mighty zenith]

it doesnt

[stark basalt]

and got my genre back

[magic epoch]

i mean i don't think either

[icy veldt]

Sounds like something that the Plague would be useful for

[stark basalt]

as pixel

[magic epoch]

but i don't think so

[mighty zenith]

not in-game at least

[stark basalt]

its pixel music

[mighty zenith]

like theres 2 8 bit remixes dokuro made

but theres no chiptune music in the mod

[hybrid barn]

It even says it right there, pvt-

[eager bluff]

that is known as chiptune

[mighty zenith]

i have never heard it called pixel music

[magic epoch]

The closest thing I can think of is like. Acid Rain 1

[soft flame]

one 8bit one 16bit*
idk the differences so i guess it’s fine

[magic epoch]

And that is still very far

[mighty zenith]

oh right

[stark basalt]

meh

[eager bluff]

it got slightly better in 2.0 because they killed sentinels phase then actually

[stark basalt]

it sounds like ass

so its pixel music

unless its lyrics

[mighty zenith]

uhh its just more sound channels

[stark basalt]

or very solemn

[young socket]

the difference is freedom

[magic epoch]

deltaruje

[mighty zenith]

theres literally no chiptune music in the mod itself though

[hybrid barn]

That's not how this works 😭

[magic epoch]

flatwurj

dlwtarune

!??

[soft flame]

uh

[young socket]

you get to use more instruments and what not

[dusk laurel]

what does this mean

[soft flame]

ahhh

[soft flame]

chiptune i assume

[dusk laurel]

bad music = a certain type of genre??????

this dfoesnt compute

[eager bluff]

my favorite genre of music
bad

the stuff i dont like

[magic epoch]

the genre of bad music is country

[stark basalt]

exactly½

[mighty zenith]

dubstep

[young socket]

for example nes games only had a few sound channels to use so u could only use 5 different things or whatever for ur msuic im not a music expert

[eager bluff]

i will fight you on this one

[stark basalt]

poetry music

[mighty zenith]

defending dubstep is a ban worthy offense

[stark basalt]

dogs track is basically dubstep

[eager bluff]

i love dubstep have you ever listened to dex arson

[mighty zenith]

no

[eager bluff]

no the fuck it is not

[stark basalt]

yes it is

[soft flame]

what is dubstep

[stark basalt]

it sounds ass

[young socket]

what.

[mighty zenith]

fun fact i havent listened to any dubstep song im just ragebaiting

[hybrid barn]

Wut-

Where are the dubs?

[dusk laurel]

💔

[stark basalt]

you have to listen closer

escape the matrix

[mighty zenith]

do you

know what music is

[eager bluff]

you cant even call it electronica because it isnt that either

[dusk laurel]

im fascinated now

[agile matrix]

i think they're ragebaiting

[stark basalt]

you have not listedned to any dubstep song

[magic epoch]

ragebait or media illiterate

[dusk laurel]

curious, i didnt know

[soft flame]

dog is an orchestral cover obviously

[hybrid barn]

i know what I said about calling people who have unpopular opinions ragebaiters, but this guy might actually be one-

[stark basalt]

hold the fuck up

have they changed

DOGS track

[eager bluff]

sidenote vanillin every time i see you typing i think its garbo

[stark basalt]

or is it still as ass

as i remember

wait

[hybrid barn]

No-

[dusk laurel]

😢

[agile matrix]

hot take: if yharims theme is like bloody stained calamity/roar of the jungle dragon, i will be unhappy

[mighty zenith]

❓

oh cause

G

[eager bluff]

googly podoboo koi is a garbocore name

[stark basalt]

those are the best

ones

[eager bluff]

or leoncore

[stark basalt]

especially yharons one

[hybrid barn]

Garbly Podobo Koi

[mighty zenith]

no its more like leon

haggbart slark

[magic epoch]

gabor

[eager bluff]

its more leoncore but i keep thinking garbo

[hybrid barn]

Garbobo Koi

[stark basalt]

ah y es

dogs track

is still as ass

as i remember it

[agile matrix]

what are these star wars names

[young socket]

no leon is like gluppity shoe boy or watever

i mean rn its fucking tetanus joe

so

[mighty zenith]

i kinda agree

[dusk laurel]

goupert funckerdinkle

[stark basalt]

do you guys

not like

[eager bluff]

@cloud ibex would you name yourself Googly Podoboo Koi

[stark basalt]

blood stained

and roar

[mighty zenith]

i want yharim's theme to be more fast paced rather than grandiose and slow

[stark basalt]

they are fire

[mighty zenith]

like infernal catharsis rebirth

[agile matrix]

i kinda want the otherway around

[mighty zenith]

is imo a better boss theme for yharon

than roar

[cloud ibex]

no probably not

[stark basalt]

i want it to just be very lyrical

if the song dosent have meaning or make the fight sound

badass

then its shit

[agile matrix]

like not superslow but like not incredibly excitable unless he does something cool

[soft flame]

[mighty zenith]

if theres anyone that deserves a grandiose theme its xeroc

[soft flame]

it’s underrated imo

[young socket]

would u name urself gluppity shoe boy

[stark basalt]

xeroc the rock skipper

[mighty zenith]

i want yharim's fight to be like V2

fast paced, blow by blow

[dusk laurel]

infernal catharsis (rebirth) my beloved

[agile matrix]

like yharon revive to rotjd THAT is valid

[eager bluff]

this user has not ever heard of meaning in melody rather than solely through lyrics

[mighty zenith]

like a mirror match in a way

[cloud ibex]

that one i can kinda see but still probably not

[soft flame]

i mean it’s respectable but the way it’s formatted in game is a mess

[hybrid barn]

I kind of want both, for the majority of the fight to have a fast paced and energetic theme, but for the very end to have something slower and heavier

[agile matrix]

yharim SHOULD be fast but his theme should kinda be like a funeral dirge made boss fight

[stark basalt]

yharims theme

should be both fast and grandiose

just constant switching

[mighty zenith]

i have a good comparison of what i'd like but i dont wanna spoil hades

[stark basalt]

it wouldnt make sense for him to have a super hyper sound track

isnt he like depressed

or some shit

[agile matrix]

this

[mighty zenith]

yeah but he wants to fight you

he eggs you on to fight him

[stark basalt]

yeah but then

it makes more sense

[mighty zenith]

thats how he wants to go out

[stark basalt]

for it to be grandiose

and it slowly

[eager bluff]

like if i were to make a power metal song about how my life sucks the song is still probably gonna be upbeat as fuck and its gonna carry that energy even if the lyrics go "i hate my life it all sucks"

[stark basalt]

get more and more fast paced

[agile matrix]

he wants to fight you, but also he is basically the last person of his conquest

[stark basalt]

so that

when u start hte fight

your shitting your pants

and the song is grandiose

[mighty zenith]

yeah if

ig

[stark basalt]

and thenit just turns into a fire ass beat

as it gets more and more batshit crazy

[agile matrix]

dude should have a very cool theme but it also should be reasonably playable at a funeral (for a terraria fan)

[mighty zenith]

thats moreso what i want yeah

again

hades final boss theme

[stark basalt]

ugh

ill h av eto m ake a 1.4 calamity playthrough

when yharim releases

gross

[frozen zodiac]

i feel like it should have a melancholic part

[hybrid barn]

By then, it won't be 1.4 anymore

[stark basalt]

oh god

i feel so old even though i am not

now

[crude light]

gosh!

[stark basalt]

ah

they know me all too well...

[soft flame]

is this a lore or a discussion

[leaden bridge]

It's a -

[stark basalt]

this is

lore

of the calamity playerbase

[soft flame]

[cloud ibex]

in no world did we need to know this

[pliant ruin]

no its just you man

[stark basalt]

this moderator

isnt a real calamity player

confirmed

theres 3 criteria

no

four

[pliant ruin]

stop being freaky in a public server

[stark basalt]

signs of a calamity player

be freaky

a metalhead

be british

4. play csgo

[cloud ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/simpleflips-gif-11142067914485832931

[fierce pagoda]

Banned

for admitting to play csgo

[stark basalt]

no

[stoic gulch]

idk what the second one even means

[stark basalt]

those are the 4 signs

one sign must be true

[pliant ruin]

people who like metal music

[stark basalt]

and for me 1. is true

yes

i convinced my friend to play terraria

[cloud ibex]

again, in no world did we need to know this

[stark basalt]

by using calamities music

[stark basalt]

oh you already knew it

its innate

i just opened youre third eye

[stoic gulch]

the 4 signs of being in this fanbase are

1. How calamitous...
2. What a calamity...
3. When's the calamity...
4. Where's the calamity...

[cloud ibex]

shut up bro!!!

stop being weird in public

[stark basalt]

listen bud

i use khora

[cloud ibex]

i do not care

[stoic gulch]

oh ok

[stark basalt]

i use khora and inaros

what do you use

sevagoth

ewww

ewww

are you a baruuk player

ewwww

atlas prime allt he wya

[cloud ibex]

i'm giving you one (1) opportunity to turn your brain on before you go in the corner

[stark basalt]

throw giant rock

[cloud ibex]

now stop

[stark basalt]

bleh

[dusk laurel]

why the fuck am i seeing this

[stoic gulch]

is there lore of the shrines around the world such as the trinket of chi shrine

or are they just neat things that exist

[fierce pagoda]

Im pretty sure their loreful

someone must have built them

maybe a shrine to worship a god they believed in

err liked

[dusk laurel]

theres some lore but im rlly tired rn so i cant explain but i did right a section in the lore doc for the shrines

[stark basalt]

holy shit theses

ai captchas

[fierce pagoda]

cause belief isnt how gods work in calamity, cuz their actually corporeal and real

[stark basalt]

are getting so hard

[magic epoch]

Draedon created them after looking into his magical mechanical crystal ball and seeing that people in the future would be attempting challenge runs that would greatly benefit / require them

[stark basalt]

to do

[stoic gulch]

truth

[stark basalt]

xeroc is a rock skipper

it is confirmed in lore

[hybrid barn]

Dammit, I thought I was safe 😔

[stark basalt]

see

im finding a pattern

[robust osprey]

trinket of chi is slime god shrine I think

[split mortar]

😭

[split mortar]

Ok fuly backread how has that image not been deleted

[stoic gulch]

It has not

[split mortar]

Yeah it hasnt
Thats
What i was on about

[stoic gulch]

Nuh uh u we’re talking about the mitochondria being the powerhouse of the cell I think

[long scaffold]

Being completely honest I forgot I asked the question just to come back to see people talking about rocks

[pliant ruin]

lmao

happens

[dusk laurel]

gulp....

[pliant ruin]

Didn't see this but for a good few of them there's lore, tho some ra bit lacking rn but its likely they have lore and we just dont know yet

As others have said Surface shrine is likely a Slime God worshipping site. It has east-asian aesthethics which makes sense w/ the kinsmen and is found in the "purity" biome wich fits with slime god and all that
Also i believe there's gel in the chest? forgot tho

Marble shrine is iirc specifically a shrine made to the God of War

[long bloom]

there's regular and pink gel yes

[pliant ruin]

Desert Shrine is a shrine made before the Sunken Sea even existed, dating back to when the desert was... still a desert, but a like, natural desert. not a charred by child soldier desert i mean

[visual kiln]

gel

[visual kiln]

oh ok

[pliant ruin]

Idrm any of the others

[long bloom]

they're all dedicated to gods i think it was said

[pliant ruin]

evil shrines are probably unspecified shrines made to the evil ass gods in the evil biomes, mushroom shrine i think the consensus is probably not even being really a shrine and kind of just a natural thing

[long bloom]

mushroom shrine is to the god of drugs

[pliant ruin]

true

[normal mantle]

How does this dude Draedon specifically fit an aureus to be astral resistant and still have it get taken over 💔

Smartest dude in terraria btw 😞

[compact night]

who said anything about astral resistance

[abstract hedge]

The only things that can truly resist being taken over are things that are sapient.

[abstract hedge]

Draedon mentions it

[pliant ruin]

The best bet to make a astral-resistant machine would seemingly be to just make a whole ass sapient robot which is probably more effort dor draedon than it's worth 😭

[abstract hedge]

He should just send himself into the infection cause he's sapient.

Wait the infection is a good test for whether and ai is sapient or not.

[pliant ruin]

Apparently he has before but the thing is that the bodies just get infected anyways

Which i think makes enough sense given like, the bodies are ultimately nothing more than vehicles for Draedon in a sense

He has a shit ton of them and they're as much "him" as ny other one of his machines

[cosmic zenith]

Fun fact, the Surface Shrine design predates new lore

The gift of Apollo shone through me back then

[pliant ruin]

lmao

[cosmic zenith]

Even funnier is the Snow Shrine situation

Rebecca, before she was a dev, made a joke about the jellyfish inside being a sort of secret God of Electricity

Now she's the main writer behind Otonilou, the jellyfish Goddess of Electricity

These are the only two shrines I built

This is what I mean by Apollo's gift

[hybrid barn]

Some ra

[warm gull]

shopping free 😊

[normal mantle]

I wish we got to see more gods cause Ik damn well there are more left than providence and the slime god & I’m p sure those are the only ones we fight

[hybrid barn]

I guess that's just a consequence of the crusade, the ones that are left are in hiding because they were already fortunate enough being able to survive the first time around

[cosmic zenith]

It is interesting to think about

Endless opportunities for fanfics and side stories

[pliant ruin]

There's others

That we see ingame i mena

Ravager, Evil2
Not fightable currently obviously but Xeroc, eventually
And albeit the state you'll find her in is not a very... "conversational" one Silva is there too

[agile matrix]

wasnt anahita one at one point too

[eager bluff]

no

[agile matrix]

like in the past lorewise

[eager bluff]

shes always been an elemental

[pliant ruin]

in old lore yes but alot of things used to be gods in old lore

[agile matrix]

i see

[pliant ruin]

i dont think elementals were like

even really much of a ocncept in old lore

[eager bluff]

in old lore she was worshipped as a god but she never really Was one iirc

[pliant ruin]

If you mean in-univverse in the actual current new lore and not as in like, old lore

Then yeah no

you can't really

"stop" being a god

If she were to be a god she'd just be that forever

[pliant ruin]

evil2 is like the most debatable one but even then id confidently say they count

Evewn if theyre god amalgamates they both have one central god that seems to congtrol most of their actions so id say they count

[eager bluff]

old lore was fucky i dont even know if any of the things called gods except for noxus and xeroc actually were gods because

[pliant ruin]

Old lore iddn't really have a definition for god

SOme things kinda just Were

[agile matrix]

arent evil2 just the rotting and festering corpses of the gods

[pliant ruin]

Not exactly

[eager bluff]

the way old lore was worded made it sound like noxus and xeroc were created, a long time ago, by the fusion of literally every single god in existence

[pliant ruin]

They're amalgamates made of the parts of several dead gods yes

[agile matrix]

aah

[pliant ruin]

But they still have a central, powerful god that seems to be the Main force controlling them

Even being able to actually communicate, even if limited

Iirc

Those being the God of War and God of Dogma for perfs and hive mind respectively

[agile matrix]

whats he doing here

i thought he had a game on playstation

[pliant ruin]

Which are 2 of the singlehandendly most important gods in the entire story so yeah makes sense they'd be strong enough to retain their consciousness and will even after being unrecognizably mauled and reassembled with spare parts basically

[agile matrix]

or a game on pc, depending on which evil it is

[eager bluff]

or well. the fusion of all the good guy gods in the case of xeroc. noxus was like the last 2 bad guy gods eating each other after xeroc killed all the other gods or something

[agile matrix]

also isnt God of Dogma kinda like saying God of Talking about Me

[eager bluff]

no

[agile matrix]

aint that what dogma is

[eager bluff]

no

[pliant ruin]

Dogma is religious zealotry

[agile matrix]

ahh

[pliant ruin]

Dogma was the leader of the god cult that lead Yharim to doing All Of That

War was another prominent member of the cult and seemingly its strongest fighter, being the one responsible for getting Yharon's egg for their plan

[eager bluff]

god of war killed like all the greek gods and then fucked off to norway and fought a bunch of those gods too

fear

[normal mantle]

Oh yeah I forgot the ravager is just a god bent all out of shape

Didn’t it say it was a failed reincarnation

[pliant ruin]

P much yeah

Agnus (God of Sacrifice) after they attempted to ressurect him but failed miserably

[eager bluff]

not exactly reincarnation afaik but resurrection at the very least

[pliant ruin]

Very sad story, Agnus being probably one of the singlehandedly kindest characters in the enitre mod

[agile matrix]

the god of sacrifice being kindred?

might i ask how so?

kinda sounds like the god of blades being motherly

[eager bluff]

sacrifice is not something subjected solely unto others

[pliant ruin]

^

Sacrifice is inherently neutral

Think of heroic sacrifices

[agile matrix]

.... ohh was he selfless

[pliant ruin]

A common trope in stories

[agile matrix]

iiiii see

[eager bluff]

cheese i want you to know those first three words made me read this in donald trumps voice

[normal mantle]

The idea of sacrifice for another, not just sacrifice to oneself

[agile matrix]

yeaa that checks out

[pliant ruin]

Agnus literally actively cut off pieces of his own body, feeling all the pain of the proccess but willingly doing so since his flesh was endlessly regenerating, because his blood and flesh was capable of healing all sorts of illnesses and wounds by those who conumsed it

[agile matrix]

why would their worshippers attempt to regenerate them

also how would bro die

[pliant ruin]

In his death he literally sacrificed himself, letting Yharim kill him, because Yharim promised him that if he did so he'd leave his followers alone

[pliant ruin]

badass

[eager bluff]

think about it this way

[normal mantle]

I know it wouldn’t make sense lore wise but it’d be really cool to fight another dragon that actually has their original power like yharon does

[pliant ruin]

To be fair you get pretty close ot that with old d uke

[agile matrix]

yea except old duke sucks

ramdash city baybee

[pliant ruin]

all bosses suck

irrelevant

[agile matrix]

speaking of ramdashes i have to go kill yharon

or die to them

[pliant ruin]

How it feels to not actually like any of calamitys bossfights that much so i dont care about how good the bosses are right now since theyre literally all being reworked anyways

[normal mantle]

I mean a dragon with their original soul and power, apparently yharon is supposed to be the last one

[eager bluff]

the guy you worship, the guy who essentially leads you in everything you do, the core of your morality, suddenly he Dies. and you see it happen. its not ancient history, it happened like last week. you're gonna try to get him back

[pliant ruin]

Yeah thing is

Old Duke was just short of getting an auric soul

like, if he had been born, just a little earlier

So he is like

as close as it gets

He does sort of hate the auric dragons so yk

[agile matrix]

yes but old duke is like

worse than them

[eager bluff]

dragon racism is real and it could be affecting a fish in your very own toxic polluted seas

[normal mantle]

I’m p sure it’s also about the fact he’s not a pure dragon he’s the fishron’s grandpa

[agile matrix]

he died for a noble cause

[pliant ruin]

doncare

[agile matrix]

i feel like that'd be jesus-y in nature

[pliant ruin]

There's no such thing as "Pure" dragons

There's just Auric Dragons (those with auric souls) and those without them

[agile matrix]

martyr them moreso than "I want This guy back Now."

[visual kiln]

hiiiiiiiii!

[normal mantle]

The ones before thy started interbreeding making pigrons, fishrons, and the wyrms

It used to be its own race I’m pretty sure

[eager bluff]

yeah thats. thats not any of them

[pliant ruin]

Nah

[visual kiln]

hello chat

[pliant ruin]

It's literally just auric and not auric

All of those dragons like fishrons and wyrms are just

non-auric dragons

They're dragons taht were born after all of the world soul shards were gone

So they never got an auric soul

Old Duke was one of the first of those

[eager bluff]

pigrons fishrons wyrms and whatnot are all dragons in the same way that a chihuahua is a dog just as much as a golden retriever is

[normal mantle]

What could a dragon possibly have mated with to make the wyrm bro 😭

[pliant ruin]

hi azzy

[pliant ruin]

another dragon

they're all just dragons

[normal mantle]

I wanna know how that geriatric worm is causing me more stress than an auric dragon

[agile matrix]

like imagine the God of Burgers suddenly gets meat grindered and made into a very large size of burgers
why would you disrespect their actions of becoming the very thing they are and instead want them back

[pliant ruin]

I mean some auric dragons were kind of pathethic ngl

[magic epoch]

internally noting this down i never knew that's why auric dragons stopped being bred.

[pliant ruin]

Look at Gluttony 😭

[normal mantle]

Gluttony

Yup

Called it

[eager bluff]

yes

[agile matrix]

whos gluttony

[pliant ruin]

Dragon of Gluttony, absorbed by Slime God

[eager bluff]

the dragon slime god ate

[pliant ruin]

weakest dragon we know of

Also his name gloomborf

[agile matrix]

ahh

[normal mantle]

It’s the dragon whose soul turned a guy into slime

[agile matrix]

dude imagine being born and yo name gloomborf

[visual kiln]

gloomborf dragon of gluttony

[pliant ruin]

Auric Dragons, much like gods

had alot of variety in their power

Gluttony is an example of something probably far bellow average

While Yharon or Zeratros are far above

Id argue the average auric dragon probably would be around like

endgame hm?

[agile matrix]

so astrum deus kinda?

[normal mantle]

Yeah yharon, the second strongest auric dragon has like a third of the health of an old ahh worm

[pliant ruin]

Primordial Wyrm is funny i think it might get a tier shift later but dont quote me on that

[normal mantle]

Astrum deus isn’t a god as we know the others, that’s technically the name of its species

[pliant ruin]

I think they were just talking about power level

[normal mantle]

Oh

[pliant ruin]

because astrum deus is currently endgame hardmode

Tho it might get shifted to early post ml later

Byeah something like current astrum deus

[normal mantle]

I hope so it’s too cool of a name to be such a bum fight

[pliant ruin]

I'm personally in favour of a post ml tier shift for deus because like

there's already a hardmode astral boss

plus post ml astrum deus just means astral can like

actually get post ml content

😭

its a biome basically exclusively dedicated to mid - late hardmode

which is

weird

[agile matrix]

no i mean on tier with average auric dragon

[eager bluff]

he died for a noble cause. but at that same time. he is still the core of your morality system. he is the one guy you follow.
you have been taught to sacrifice yourself for the sake of others. so you and a group of your fellow cultists decide to make your ultimate sacrifice. sacrifice yourself to bring back the god that is known for saving people.
(not sure if sacrifice yourself was part of the original deal but it very much could be)

[pliant ruin]

Iirc

[agile matrix]

see i would be the guy arguing against the punch here im not gonna lie

[normal mantle]

I wanna know what Silva was like

[pliant ruin]

The dudes that revived him specifically were said to be a subsect of his cult that had warped views of his teachings

So that'd check out

[agile matrix]

aaahh.

[pliant ruin]

Also ngl

[agile matrix]

thaaaaatd do it

[pliant ruin]

I don't vibe with calling Agnus's worshippers as a cult

[eager bluff]

then you wouldnt be one of the ones trying to revive him

[pliant ruin]

Purely a headcanon rn but

I've taken it ot calling them his Family instead i think it fits more for what they are and i can totally see Agnus himself would refer to them as such

[agile matrix]

relative to their morality levels it scales from preacher to worshipper to cultist

his primary group are preachers of this good word

[eager bluff]

i dont know what else to call it that gets the idea across easily

[pliant ruin]

Like i think Agnus would genuinely see each one of his worshippers as a child or family member

[magic epoch]

wholesome

[normal mantle]

Ik the abyss is something that pretty much is meant to be unchanging but it’s kinda funny how the god of life over centuries of spreading has only amounted to like a few hundred mush blocks

[eager bluff]

and to be entirely fair for the guys that decided to try to revive him they definitely were more on the culty end of agnus followers

[magic epoch]

imesuch a sleepcel snoozehead

[pliant ruin]

no yeah in the context of just explaining to people its fair

I just think in-universe they wouldnt be called that

[pliant ruin]

Tbf

Silva's essence did seemingly influence the actual fauna down there alot

With how fucking huge some of the organisms down there are and how her influence seems to cause prehistoric traits to awaken on some of the animals

Like realistically an abyssal sea should actually not really have that many large animals due to the lack of food and stuff

[eager bluff]

even within the agnus followers i wouldnt be surprised if they ended up referring to the group that tried to revive him as a cult

[pliant ruin]

Even irl there's very few deep sea animals that get particularly big and when they do they tend to only be partially deep sea dwellers and go to shallower waters to hunt

[agile matrix]

it would be incredibly cool if (if silva wasnt currently barely sentient goop) silva did some cool shecanery with azafure

[pliant ruin]

But due to Silva's influence she kinda flipped the foodchain down there on its head

[agile matrix]

since she's like
right there

[pliant ruin]

So things actually have a surplus of food (planty mush)

Which means they can actually afford to Big

[pliant ruin]

I mean she did in a way

Silva's essence is why Azafure is so lush

[eager bluff]

and also evolve a lot faster

[pliant ruin]

yep it also messes up with the organisms's evolution as seen with the

prehistoirc traits

[agile matrix]

oh i thought it was abyss azafure silva

not abyss silva azafure

[pliant ruin]

nah silva is in the abyss

but her essence dripping down to azafure is why its so lush

[agile matrix]

no i knew that

i thought the abyss itself did that, not silva

[eager bluff]

nah

[agile matrix]

and her being there was later

[pliant ruin]

i mean in a way its both

it is from the abyss yeah but the reason the abyss odes that is because of silva since by itself the abyss is just

Deep Sea

Wouldn't really be giving much other than moisture which tbf is valuable for a lush enviroment but wouldnt provide all the nutrients and stuff needed for one

[eager bluff]

silva was there in the past, got out of gay baby jail for a few hundred maybe a couple thousand years, and then got chopped up and sent back to gay baby jail by the evil yellow man

[visual kiln]

nervous gulp

[normal mantle]

Oh yeah I forgot Silva is why everything there is actually living

Like the sulfur sea creatures only recently (like within the century) evolved to survive up there and they did it really fast

[pliant ruin]

yeah if it wasnt for her influence life down in the abyss would probably be significantly more mundane and life in the sulphur sea would be significantly less

[pliant ruin]

tbf not specified how long it took but it very much was far faster than average given that the sulphur's sea pollution was due to azafure, which was a manmade civilization that, unless it had been existing for literal millions of years, wouldnt have existed for long enough to cause beings to evolve as drastically as they did

evolution on that amount of time would be minor at best

and i think i can confidently say azafure hasn't existed for millions of years given even xeroc iso nly like, a thousand years at best 😭

[agile matrix]

wait sulphurs from azafure??

i thought sulphurous sea was caused by draedon pollution

[normal mantle]

A rough timeline is like 800-600 years with azafure, and silvas dumping happened probably like mid crusade

[pliant ruin]

the sulphur sea is like that because of pollution coming from azafure

[agile matrix]

how didnt it also attack t4 and up

[pliant ruin]

The humble bestiaries

[agile matrix]

im a tmodloader fan i can read

but just dont wanna

[normal mantle]

The devil fish specifically absorbs pollution

[pliant ruin]

Fun trivia it's like a few really specific enemies from the abyss that filter out the toxic fumes

like cannonball jellyfish an devil fish ye

[agile matrix]

oh! neat!

[normal mantle]

What doesn’t get absorbed keeps rising and makes the surface sea

[pliant ruin]

Draedon's radioactive waste came only after

[normal mantle]

Draedon was supposed to make the sea less sulfurous but that’s neither here nor there

[pliant ruin]

The sulphur sea has been sulphurous for a pretty long while, to the point the sulphurifc pollution wasn't even really harmful to the enviroment anymore as things had truly evolved to live there

Draedon's nuclear waste did fuck things over a bit htough since

Alot harder to adapt to that and itw as far more recent so they havent had time either

[normal mantle]

He had more important things to do like pissing off yharim with the plaguebringer series

[pliant ruin]

If you read on the bestiaries none of the organisms really suffer from the sulphuric waters and are fully adapted to it nowadays but a good few of them are being fucked over by the Waste

As an example, Toxicatfish are actively going extinct because the nuclear waste is making them hyperagressive bastards that attacka nything on sight, often leading to them Dying

[agile matrix]

draedon has more important things to do than concern themselves with stuff like "pollution" and "total encampment emancipation" and "Draedon you cannot make an eradication beam powered by the sun, that would destroy the earth"

[pliant ruin]

you cant just shoot a hole in the surface of mars.

[agile matrix]

(note, the last one hasnt been mentioned, but it WOULD be somethin they make

[pliant ruin]

tbf it probably wouldnt

[agile matrix]

even with primordial light?

[pliant ruin]

more so that he wouldn't want to

[agile matrix]

why wouldnt the eccentric robot who makes war machines want a death laser

[pliant ruin]

Draedon isn't a murderhobo that just blows shit up for fun, he blows shit up if the results he'd get from doing so are more valuable than what he loses from it, bonus points if he is confident in the damage he does being reversible

His goal is not destruction, it's research

[eager bluff]

he has a better energy source than the sun at his disposal and also i dont think making The Biggest Fucking Gun would further his resources or research

[agile matrix]

im 95% sure a gigantic fucking laserbeam would be very useful in making new elements

[pliant ruin]

People kinda flanderize Draedon because they fail ot see that to him Destruction is not a goal, it is a means and only a means he takes when it is, in his eyes, Necessary

[agile matrix]

its like dropping a nuke in the ocean to get 102 and 103 elementally

[normal mantle]

-# Pretty sure it’s not canon but Mars from wrath of the gods

[pliant ruin]

Like even looking at the shit he does ingame

[agile matrix]

thanatos also has this

and blenderbeam

[pliant ruin]

Exo Mechs aren't just going around rampant destroying everything because Why Not

He COULD have done that if he wanted to

[eager bluff]

yes but not an eradication beam

[pliant ruin]

But like

why would he

[agile matrix]

i mostly flanderize draedon solely because he has like maybe 20 minutes of lore

[pliant ruin]

He made exo mechs because he wanted to test his limits and perfect his craft, and he choses to test it on you specifically

[agile matrix]

compared to his compatriots who have hours

[pliant ruin]

He has the most lore of literally anyone in the game

That's just blatantly wrong

[agile matrix]

i really do not think so

[eager bluff]

a high powered laser would be good yes but for synthesizing new elements you cant have it be generalized fuckoff beam in this direction

[pliant ruin]

No it's not a like "think" thing

[agile matrix]

if its there its not at all said

[pliant ruin]

He literally has the most content of any character in the game ,objectively speaking

[eager bluff]

draedon has the most lore its like objective

[pliant ruin]

Ingame

Not just. stuff said here. ingame lore

He literally ahs the most ofa nyone

[agile matrix]

yea i know of communicative

[normal mantle]

Dude made both mech trios, all of the labs, and is the source of most of our lore not counting the tooltips of individual items

[eager bluff]

he has the mega bonus of he was not affected by the rewrite and also had the most lore even before that

[agile matrix]

well yea he's a good character

[pliant ruin]

Like

• Every single draedon arsenal item's tooltip
• Every draedon lab entry and schematic
• Draetalk
• Every boss associated with him - Mechs, Aureus, PBG, Exos, Calclone

[agile matrix]

im also an idiot, so that helps me flanderize

[pliant ruin]

He objectivelhy has literally the most lore of anyone ingame

It's not up to debate he just Does

[agile matrix]

mmmmm

i dunno!

what about the yellow guy

[normal mantle]

It’s kinda funny how he has all this stuff for him meanwhile his backstory is that he was a failed experiment

[eager bluff]

yellow guy does not have more

[agile matrix]

this is what i mean

[pliant ruin]

yeah yellow guy does not have more

He has the lore whispers.

[normal mantle]

You also get most of that lore from Draedon 😭

And the whispers ofc

[pliant ruin]

That's it. that's all yharim has. the whispers.

[agile matrix]

yea and JUST draedon + whispers

[eager bluff]

yellow guy lore is lore items and draedon has distinctly way more shit than that

[pliant ruin]

Like again this isn't even a point of debate

By literal text count

Draedon ahs the most lore

It's like asying 3 is a bigger number than 4

[agile matrix]

by text count, yes he does

by informative amount, we just know of his arsenal and of his slight backstory

[pliant ruin]

Draedon is the most fleshed out character in the entire mod becasue like, he has a complete arc, we know of his motivations, his future goals, there really isn't much else to add to him

[eager bluff]

by informative amount we know about nearly literally everything he made

[pliant ruin]

meanwhile every single other character has like a ton of gaps missing in their story

[normal mantle]

Yharim SHOULD have the most lore but at the same time draedons whole thing is the pursuit and documentation of knowledge so we’re gonna see more of him until we actually SEE the big man himself

[agile matrix]

this makes sense

-# also the 3v1 thats a bit much .

[pliant ruin]

Yharim would ideally have the most lore it's just that there's not much of a way to implement ingame rn

[eager bluff]

yharim should have the most lore but he was the single most affected by the rewrite character

[normal mantle]

Yeah sadly, other than the fact him and his literally shaped the world we play in but we see breadcrumbs of how that happened

[pliant ruin]

There'll be ways to implement it later i mean

[eager bluff]

it doesnt help that he started off with barely anything too

[pliant ruin]

There's alot of ways to do so it's just taht ingame right now lore implementation is just kinda like Bad

[eager bluff]

like again

[pliant ruin]

I love calamity lore but the lore implementation rn is pretty uhhhhhhhhhh yeah

It's really just a "working on it" issue though

devs are aware and it'll be better later so i'm not complaining

[eager bluff]

draedon has the bonus of none of his stuff was touched in a major way by the rewrite and a good large amount of it was already there before the rewrite happened

[pliant ruin]

Draetalk and the lab entry stuff are like the only good lore implementations ingame rn i think

[normal mantle]

It’s a lil sad how this whole world was shaped mostly by the big man’s crusade but when we see him we’re gonna get a depressed old man with literally nothing left to lose

[agile matrix]

mmm

no i think he has something to lose

a battle :)

[pliant ruin]

I mean he is depressed because he awsnt able to complete his genocide so

To me it's less sad and more so pitiable

If that makes sense

Seems similar on the surface but is fairly distinct

[normal mantle]

Yeah but he’s lost literally anything he gained along the way aside from the tools he has on him

[eager bluff]

and hes fine with that

[agile matrix]

what if we just roll a nat 20 on speech and say we killed the rest of the gods

[normal mantle]

We took this man’s dog too 😭

[agile matrix]

will dude just lay down and die

[pliant ruin]

Yeah, which, again, pitiable
I can't feel bad for Yharim because he's a horrible person and he still has not changed his ways even by the end of the game but i can pity that even when faced with losing literally everything he has he is unable to take time to go "damn maybe i'm the baddy"

[eager bluff]

like hes entirely fine with him losing all of his connections the only part that hes sad about is the fact that he didnt get to finish his hyperfixation on murdering gods and civilians

[pliant ruin]

Nah

I disagree wit hthat

I do not think Yharim is Entirely Fien with losing his connections and that is unecessary demonizing of him
He is a horrible person yes but he is not heartless, i think he does to some extent genuinely feel for having lost all those close to him

I think by treating Yharim like he's some purely evil ghoul with 0 redeeming traits, it actually makes the impact of how horrible he is weaker

He is a human being with human sentiments and emotions who still chose to go down the path he did and refuses to see any other way

And that's what makes him scary

[normal mantle]

The closest we’re gonna get to that is the fact that he looked at the world as it was being left by him and his and decided to take yharon to the Eyrie to either let the world heal or let the world figure it out itself

[pliant ruin]

Nah

That's not at all what he was doing

He went to the Aerie to train

Because he only has like 10 years left of his life and he's slowly losing hope on the idea of ever being abl eto complete his goal

he has not given up on his crusade

He does not regret it, he regrets the way he approached it

Whic his the problem

[eager bluff]

he realized he wasnt good enough for what he wanted to do so he went to try to become good enough for that

[pliant ruin]

Because he is unable to acnowledge that the crusade in of itself, was a horrible thing to do to begin with

If you think he regrets the actual act of the Crusade Happening

look at every single lore item talking about gods

[normal mantle]

I mean either that or he’s just shut down, the crusades went on for centuries and he’s made no progress realistically, he starts acknowledging his downfall towards the end through the whispers too

[pliant ruin]

he made no progress realistically

[eager bluff]

no he

[pliant ruin]

He killed like 90% of all gods

[eager bluff]

he got really fucking close to winning

[pliant ruin]

He made. he made laot of progress

The thing about the whispers is taht they're

intentionally designed ot make you sympathize with Yharim because he is a manipulative bastard

It's only through a closer read that oyu realize that he

He's stil a really horrible person actually

[normal mantle]

Honestly I haven’t read enough idk how many gods there are/are left so idk

[eager bluff]

its not like he only killed a handful no there are realistically double digit numbers of gods left

[pliant ruin]

Yharim sees himself as a fallen hero

However

The very fact he'd see himself as taht is a indicator of how deluded b y his worldview he is to begi nwith

If you look at his regrets

None of them ever mention

"Man i think killing all of those innocent gods rather than just the bad ones was bad, actually" or "Man i think killing thousands of civilians just to kill the gods that were nearby was bad,a ctually" or "man i think making Skeletron Prime the Civilian Torcher 900 was bad, actually"

His regrets all lie in how he denied his responsibilities beyond just Killing The Gods, which elad to him losing his army, connections and strenght

[normal mantle]

I take the whispers as notes from a guy who doesn’t have much more to lose, I mean sure he’s a bad dude I know that but look at what he has left by the time we get Cynosure

[pliant ruin]

Yeah and that's the t hing

He knows he's probalby not ognna be able to fonish the crusade

[eager bluff]

he doesnt have much more to lose but he wants to make you into another him

[pliant ruin]

So what does that leave him?

To find a a successor

Yep

[normal mantle]

He definitely wasn’t right with how he did it, some gods could have been left alone fo sure

[pliant ruin]

He's actively trying to make you into Yharim 2

[eager bluff]

no

by his own logic

every single god has to die

[normal mantle]

That’s the problem

[eager bluff]

there can be none left

[pliant ruin]

Yharim's ideology was that every single god had to die and that he was willing to go literally any lenght to do so

Illmeris being the

most coically evil example of it i's insane

And one he does not express any regret towards exvcept the fact tha tit lead him to losing Calamitas as his reuasble nuclear bomb

[eager bluff]

he can die, i think he would ultimately be fine with that, but only so long as the crusade was successful

[normal mantle]

Sure all gods had to have taken the soul of an auric dragon but there has to have been necessity or good will behind a few of those

[eager bluff]

he doesnt see it that way

[pliant ruin]

Also not all auric dragons were good!

Yharim idolizes dragons as holy paragons of goodness and kindess and Gods are heretical traitors

He is stuck in a black and white view of the world and absolutely refuses to see it any other way

Him ever accepitng otherwise would mean that 100 years of his life, how long the crusade has went on for

Was entirely pointless and helped no one

He was fighting against shadows

In reality some dragons were good, some dragons were bad

Some gods were gods, some gods were bad

Refusing to see the nuance behind these situations and blindly defining things as one thing or the other is just bad

[eager bluff]

yharim was betrayed by one group so he immediately latched on to what he thought was the exact opposite of that group, never realizing that he was being used by yharon just as much as he was being used by the gods

[normal mantle]

Highkey this entire thing is xeroc’s fault but I’d probably do it too if I got a sick name like the first sinner or smth like that

[pliant ruin]

Yharon and Yharim bring out the absolute worst in eachother

[eager bluff]

the gods betrayed him so when he was given the easy out of "all gods are evil and all dragons are good" he immediately took that and he never reflected on it

[pliant ruin]

Xeroc slander will not be tolerated in this household ....

[normal mantle]

Pretty much trauma bonded 😭

[visual kiln]

xeroc slander

[pliant ruin]

Its so funny like

[eager bluff]

i wouldnt call it that i would call it more. genocidal brainwashing

[normal mantle]

He took the soul of a beat up geriatric dragon who just fought space Satan

[pliant ruin]

Yharim:

• Kills thousands of innocents, almost destroys society as we know it
• Employs war crimes, child soldiers, unethical strategies
• Murders 90% of all deities regardless or if they were good or bad

Xeroc:

• Killed 1 guy thousands of years ago for morally dubious reasons but all things considered probably a good reason

[normal mantle]

You can’t tell me that’s not a bit slandersble

[pliant ruin]

Xeroc is clearly t he true bad guy guys 🙏

Yharim's narrative that Xeroc was a powerhungry maniac falls apart really fast

If you stop to think about it

[normal mantle]

I’m not talking about that

[visual kiln]

i wonder why xeroc didnt do anything to save the dragons

[pliant ruin]

I think the same reason why he didn't do anything to save anyone else

[normal mantle]

Xeroc kinda kick started the entire thing with others trying to become gods

[pliant ruin]

He di dyeah

But i really wouldn't say it was his fault, atleast

I wouldn't condemn him for it

It likely was an accidental outcome

[eager bluff]

he was the first to do it but he also wasnt going around telling people how to do it

[normal mantle]

I mean yeah he probably didn’t even know what was gonna happen

[pliant ruin]

Like from what we know

Xeroc had a really valid reason to do what he did

Atleast, everything points towards it

[normal mantle]

Like for all he knew he could have just exploded on the spot but he Got lucky and aura farmed

[eager bluff]

he did it and probably assumed he was going to be the only one to do it but the knowledge leaked and now all the dragons are dead except for the newly genocidal one

[pliant ruin]

Xeroc isn't omnipresent nor omniscient, despite his power. If he wanted to save each innocent on earth from getting killed he'd have to like, actively go around and spent time and effort on that

And

well

Given what we know about what he's Probably doing right now

Probably uh

Not a good idea

the Horrors are right around the corner :tm

I do not think Xeroc is like flawless and i think

[normal mantle]

Yeah like the thing with yharim supposedly being intended to be god king implies that xeroc is nowhere to be found

[pliant ruin]

If, our beliefs are correct

[eager bluff]

its been hinted at that his time and effort is being spent on much larger and more existentially threatening problems

[pliant ruin]

And the reason he hasn't really done Anyhting is due to him 101% focusing on protecting the world against Noxus

[pliant ruin]

Do note that "God king" wasn't a like

Title for the King of All Gods ever

It was just for that specific faction

Because gods aren't all unified under a single group

Unlike the Dragons, they are afr more independent

[pliant ruin]

While this is understandable, i think his paranoia is actually a negative trait here

I think it'd be very interesting if

Ultiamtely

[normal mantle]

Who actually IS noxus bro

[eager bluff]

gods are what happens when you give a bunch of mercenaries nearly unmatched power

[pliant ruin]

He could've spent a significantr amount of that time actually protecting people or even stopping the crusade alltogether

And it wouldn't have actually lead to Noxus fucking shit up and he would've still had time to fight against it

I think it'd be really interesting if Xeroc's paranoia and trauma in regards to the fucking Fovos Horrors was actually a major downside to his character

[eager bluff]

distortion glupshitto that controls dog and made ceaseless void and controls probably most of the distortion too

[pliant ruin]

He's spending literally 500% of his time making sure fovos 2 DOSEN'T happen again but in doing so, he's actually letting things just as bad happen on terraria, by the hands of mortals like yharim

[normal mantle]

Looking at what empress is capable of in lore xeroc could theoretically just vaporize things pretty much

[pliant ruin]

Like i think Xeroc is ultimately a well intentioned person

He's doing all of this to make sure the tragedy of the past dosen't happen again

But i don't think that means he's flawless

[normal mantle]

He could have just deleted yharim and made the game a lot more boring to play if he locked in

[eager bluff]

hes trying to make sure the tragedy of the past doesnt happen again but at that same time hes also ignoring the tragedies of the present to do so

[pliant ruin]

yep

[normal mantle]

Speaking of, is nameless deity a good reference to xeroc at all? Like I’m not trusting it but if that’s what xeroc could do canonically wtf is this bum doing now 😭

[pliant ruin]

nah

its not related to xeorc in any way

entirely separate character

[pliant ruin]

Another thing is tbh

I think Xeroc is comically lonely

Like hes the single oldest god in existence except for Silva

He is a relic of a bygone age and everyone he has ever known from that age is Dead except like, Yharon

who hates his guts and has turned into super genocidotron 300

And he hasn't even like

Given himself opportunity to make any real new connections i think

Because again he's just