lore-discussion

[long bloom]

yeah that's not what's happening

[wanton pendant]

Yeah so that's not how it works.
Calamitas just does that kinda thing.

[long bloom]

it's a regular human fight

[wanton pendant]

Her secret technique: Brick Laying.

[long bloom]

just with magic

you're still on terraria

[pulsar ocean]

Domain expansions back in the jjk heian era were used as cosmetic grounds for a fair fight
That’s more fitting for whatever’s going on with calamitas fight

[main tiger]

Although, this would not be entirely incorrect, since we are talking about a Terrarian who is already post-Yharon, which could evade the sure hits of calamitas.

[wanton pendant]

Calamitas does not have 'sure hits'.

She just shoots you with magic.

She can't use Aura Sphere or Swift from Pokémon.

[main tiger]

Imagine what would have happened if the Terrarian post-providence had entered the fight against Supreme Calamitas. He would clearly have died because the attacks would have reached him

[wanton pendant]

The ability to dodge isn't affected by progression.

[main tiger]

By sure hit, I mean the inevitability of the attack.

[wanton pendant]

Yes, and that isn't in Calamitas' skill set.

She cannot use attacks that cannot be evaded.

This is seen by the fact that you can evade her attacks.

[split mortar]

Yeah the attack exists but its not uncanon someone can beat calamitas with pre moonlord movement

You can dodge

[main tiger]

I don't think you're getting it.

[main tiger]

Im talking about supreme calamitas

[wanton pendant]

That is what you are saying.
If you meant something else, then your translator isn't working.

[wanton pendant]

That is who we are talking about.

Calamitas.

The Supreme Witch.

Final boss.

[split mortar]

I know

[mighty zenith]

calamitas' attacks can miss

thats
how you beat her

by dodging her attacks

[main tiger]

Let's assume that calamitas can do that. Would that mean that the Terrarian is using reality warping to be less damaged by calamitas and also dodging their attacks?

[mighty zenith]

you cant really assume something when it's just untrue

theoretically i guess yeah that would work?

but thats just flat out not what happens

[split mortar]

The terrarian is up to you, you dont need jjk domain expansion to have it be able to do reality bending stuff

[wanton pendant]

It is explicitly not the case, but sure.
But the argument is moot, since it's completely unrelated to anything.

[spare pier]

Incomprehensible discussion

[long bloom]

wtf non genshin pfp

[spare pier]

I blame Homestuck

You're the second person to point that out man

Have I truly become Furina Genshin Impact?

[young socket]

yes

[long bloom]

idk it's just jarring seeing colors other than blue and white

[wanton pendant]

Why aren't you anime?

[split mortar]

Whenevrr i see furina art i think rebecca so yeah

[spare pier]

Insane

[abstract hedge]

You don't have to warp reality to be able to dodge an attack.

[main tiger]

If you're referring to lore, you're correct. But it's never stated in the lore that the arena is a manifestation of his power itself.

[wanton pendant]

???

That has nothing to do with anything.

[wanton pendant]

Same.

[main tiger]

I thought you were talking about lore.

[spare pier]

Whar

[wanton pendant]

I am, but I'm not sure if you are.

[abstract hedge]

I don't think the arena is even canon. If it is, it's just her using magic to make it.

[spare pier]

This conversation is so confusing

[abstract hedge]

Yeah idfk what it's about.

[spare pier]

Yes, the arena is canon

[abstract hedge]

oh neat

[split mortar]

Meltem does not speek english and is using a translator

[spare pier]

I haven't really thought about how it works though

[split mortar]

I think

[split mortar]

Skeletron curse logic you talked about months ago is what i assumed

[spare pier]

Generally I think most of the Bosses that have borders accomplish it by putting terms and conditions on their spells

[wanton pendant]

Calamitas got a degree in civil engineering and she makes it herself.

[spare pier]

I.e, Calamitas makes the arena by setting a specific size to it

It can't be any shorter than that

In exchange, it's impossible for anyone to escape it

[main tiger]

I was talking about whether the Calamitas battle arena is a domain expansion or not.

[abstract hedge]

what the fuck is a domain expansion

[split mortar]

jjk thing

[abstract hedge]

Then no

[spare pier]

JJK thing

[abstract hedge]

Because this isn't jjk

[wanton pendant]

And then about her being undodgeable for some reason.

[abstract hedge]

idk what jjk is

[spare pier]

But no, it doesn't work like a Domain Expansion

[main tiger]

Ou

[main tiger]

Jujutsu kaisen

[spare pier]

Though

Hum

Kinda want to maybe make it that, though

But of course without a sure hit effect because that's just impossible to show ingame

Me when

Undodgeable attack

(Not fun)

[main tiger]

But in lore?

[wanton pendant]

They're talking about lore.

That's one of the writers.

[main tiger]

Ouh ok

[spare pier]

I have no reason to make something that works one way in lore but in gameplay in another

But I don't think there's anything stopping a Domain Expansion from existing within the Calamity magic system

[split mortar]

If anything kinda sounds like something that could happen with shakidou due to their weird space emptiness fuckery

If it didnt work with the normal magic stuff

[spare pier]

Yeah no I think it's something that can just happen with normal magic

[wanton pendant]

Adding 'Calamitas can get stat buffs from watching Anime' as non-negotiable, objective, canonical lore.

[glacial rampart]

HOMESTUCK

[next mason]

“Ahh yes, my Anti Yharim Technique. I haven’t used this since the Heian Era.”

Uses Malevolent Shrine

[wanton pendant]

Anti-Yharim Technique you say?
How interesting, but there's a fatal flaw you've missed.
I'm not Yharim.

[real silo]

Can't get auric rejected if you never get touched

Gojo solos him

[main tiger]

Is Moonlord (of terraria lore) nerfed in Terraria's calamity mod lore?

[wanton pendant]

It's a different guy.

Second most powerful being to ever exist.

We don't really have a good frame of reference for how strong Moon Lord is except for vague 'near unlimited power' and 'practically a god' in the Bestiary in vanilla.

[main tiger]

On Terraria's 8th anniversary, Re Logic announced that the Moonlord was threatening to destroy the very fabric of reality.

[wanton pendant]

And Moon Lord isn't Cthulhu in Calamity.

[wanton pendant]

ReLogic or Red?
Because Red says a lot of stuff.

Including that there really isn't an official lore.

[main tiger]

Time to analyze Terraria's lore

[wanton pendant]

Good luck with that.
Don't forget that the Moon Lord is the Guide's father.

[main tiger]

Isn't that a fallacy?

[wanton pendant]

I think your translator is broken.

[spare pier]

The bullshit weird ass Terraria lore thingie they posted has generally been agreed upon to be a load of bullshit by most people including a good few Terraria developers

[main tiger]

No isn't

[wanton pendant]

It has been this entire time.

[spare pier]

Either way, yes, Calamity Moon Lord is very much weaker than its Vanilla counterpart

Oops

Despite Vanilla Lore being essentially non existant, there are infact some clues you can get in terms of the scale and Moon Lord's power on the big picture

And Calamity Moon Lord doesn't get anywhere near close that because otherwise the story would cease functioning

[main tiger]

Reb, ¿could I make a version of the old calamity mod lore that respects the power of vanilla Terraria in a consistent manner?

[wanton pendant]

Good luck with that.

Because vanilla Terraria does whatever it wants.

[main tiger]

I've seen more complicated things.

[wanton pendant]

In a sense, the Old Lore respected this by also doing whatever it wanted.

[gritty kraken]

Few scrollings in and there’s already a multiverse for terraria lore wiki page

[wanton pendant]

Red says a lot of things.

[spare pier]

I mean, I guess? But also it'd just be filled with

"Why didn't character X do this?"

[wanton pendant]

Are they stupid?

[spare pier]

Like, Yharim can't destroy a continent because if he could He Would Have Fucking Done That

[plucky juniper]

i mean you could say the same about some things in calamity lore, both old and new

or rather

"Why did those cultists throw Yharon's egg into lava?"

[wanton pendant]

To kill Yharon.

[spare pier]

I mean yeah but that's moreso things characters do due to personal reasons

[main tiger]

I will modify certain aspects of this lore based on the old lore (I will call it alternate lore).

Some parts of the lore don't make sense.

[plucky juniper]

yeah, just tossing a egg of a dragon known to have fire is character thing

[spare pier]

Yes it's called being kind of a dumbass

Some people are kinda dumb sometimes

But those minor lapses of judgement can be reasonably justified by even external reasons, anger for example

[plucky juniper]

That. Doesn't change the fact that I think it's dumb for a reason completely separate from "They are a dumbass, so this is in-character"

[wanton pendant]

If it were the Dragon of Flame, yeah sure, stupid.
Dragon of Rebirth is probably a bit less obvious that lava isn't fatal.

[plucky juniper]

it feels stupid on another level

[main tiger]

Wouldn't it have been easier to just give Yharim powers and be done with it?

[long bloom]

???

[spare pier]

No he needs to absorb the soul out of his own volition

[wanton pendant]

Yharim does have powers. Like the power to cleave mountains.

[plucky juniper]

i dont feel like someone rejecting their role would also justify getting the EGG tossed

it feels tacky

[main tiger]

Basically hidden potential

[wanton pendant]

Yharim works out a lot.

[spare pier]

There are also like, a bunch of other reasons why the egg could've been tossed into the lava, infact

Here's a very good one

[zenith geode]

its cool

[plucky juniper]

if, for whatever reason, say, Yharim specifically did something to setback the god cult's plans, then I could see them being so angry that they also toss the egg into the lava

[wanton pendant]

Because Yharon would have been reborn sooner or later. Wouldn't want a really mad dragon going around eating your guys, would you?

[hybrid barn]

I feel like there's a difference between something being justified and it being something someone could reasonably be led to do

[spare pier]

If Yharon hatched so easily upon being thrown into the lava, it means he was probably very close to hatching normally

[long bloom]

he did do something

he refused to absorb the soul

[dusk laurel]

overdone user

[plucky juniper]

that. just doesnt feel strong

[wanton pendant]

Setting their plans back, requiring them to dispose of Yharon before he revives.

[plucky juniper]

okay cool he rejected it, yeah

[main tiger]

The damn cultists could have thrown the egg into damn space or even left it in freezing environments, but they didn't have the best idea of throwing it into fucking lava.

[long bloom]

it takes a lot of time and effort to mold a slave into a god-king

[wanton pendant]

So they can go get the egg again, find a new guy, make that guy do the ritual, and then have a God-King.

[hybrid barn]

This assumes they could, in fact, throw it into space

[plucky juniper]

it does not feel really awesome, it just makes the reader think, "Why did the writers write it like this?"

[wanton pendant]

If not, then they have Yharon, who is now really mad at them.

[long bloom]

they could not throw it into space

[wanton pendant]

How.

[spare pier]

They wouldn't be able to get someone to replace Yharim before Yharon hatched, so they got rid of the egg to reset Yharon's timer and thought that there would be no problems with throwing it into lava alongside Yharim

[main tiger]

🤣

[long bloom]

why is that funny

[wanton pendant]

I don't think the cultists went to the gym enough to do that.

[hybrid barn]

They were in hell and didn't have access to rockets, I don't think they could just toss stuff into space

[wanton pendant]

Yharim probably could though.

[spare pier]

And also like, yeah Yharim refusing is actually a pretty fucking big setback

[plucky juniper]

important and relevant question

how old is dogma

[spare pier]

Specially when it's very much implied he thrashed some shit before being ultimately sentenced

[wanton pendant]

At least over eight centuries.

[main tiger]

Didn't the cultists have magic for that?

[dusk laurel]

?

[wanton pendant]

We don't know. They're dead.

[long bloom]

they don't have Throw Stuff Into Space magic no

[wanton pendant]

And magic that tosses stuff into space hasn't really been adressed.
Well.... Moon Lord, maybe?

He's in space.

[spare pier]

I mean, I GUESS they could've MAYBE teleported something to the moon????

But

That'd just be very silly

[long bloom]

i have done nothing but teleport eggs for three days

[spare pier]

It's easier to just throw the damn egg in the lava alongside Yharim

[wanton pendant]

And doesn't stop Yharon from being reborn.
Worse still, if Yharon can survive in space, that means they can't get access to him, and so can't get his soul.

Which means no God-King.

[plucky juniper]

no i have an important counter

[main tiger]

Which was a terrible idea.

[long bloom]

i don't think yharon can survive in space

[long bloom]

many things are terrible in hindsight

[spare pier]

It's not like they ran the equations to realize that doing so would've allowed Yharon to hatch just in the nick of time to save Yharim, and that the same guy would then go on to fuck literally everything

[plucky juniper]

According to this, Dogma was around in the ye olden days of Zeratros, and this helps explain why he managed to get the Yharon Egg

[wanton pendant]

99% of the time, if you throw an egg into lava, it's gonna kill whatever is in it.
Too bad Yharon happens to be in that 1%.

[main tiger]

He asked me what the cultists would have done if they had common sense.

[plucky juniper]

This implies that Dogma might've, i dunno, known a little more about Yharon than you do pal?

[dusk laurel]

what alternative was there that was easily available that wouldnt just be fight yharon and get him back into an egg again

[wanton pendant]

I don't think Dogma and Yharon used to dunk each other into lava for fun.

[plucky juniper]

Maybe enough to realize, "Hey, maybe I should not toss an egg of the very much fiery phoenix into lava?"

[wanton pendant]

I don't even think Yharon would have known he'd survive that.

[spare pier]

Like, you guys also gotta remember that even if they considered the worst case scenario, they never would've thought that Yharim and Yharon together would've been enough to wipe out all of them and that they would later go on to fucking cleanse the world of godhood

[zenith geode]

"its just one dragon and a guy if shit does go down we can just kill em"

[long bloom]

[spare pier]

Yes, exactly 😭

So like

[plucky juniper]

He's a fiery dragon. He might not be a literal dragon of fire, but he famously is pretty fiery in many ways. I feel like I wouldn't toss his egg into the lava.

[long bloom]

they didn't know the guy was THE guy

[wanton pendant]

Great, get a sledgehammer and get whacking then. You probably still don't have long before he hatches naturally.

[young socket]

ur definitely the type of guy who would throw yharons egg into lava

[long bloom]

true

[wanton pendant]

And just because a guy breathes fire doesn't mean the guy's impervious to fire while literally not being born.

[spare pier]

1 - Disposing of the egg was sensible to halt Yharon's rebirth
2 - They couldn't have known that the heat would've allowed the egg to hatch just in time to upend their plans
3 - EVEN IF THEY CONSIDERED THAT INCREDIBLY SLIM POSSIBILITY, they never would've thought they would be defeated by a massively scarred Yharim and a recently rebirthed Yharon

[plucky juniper]

There's probably many ways to deal with Yharon that aren't just "TOSS THE EGG INTO LAVA BECAUSE IM ANGY!!! >:("

[dusk laurel]

this

[plucky juniper]

dogma led the cult. he should've known better

[long bloom]

[dusk laurel]

overdone i think youre just arguing for the sake of arguing

[hybrid barn]

This implies that Dogma had to be a good tactical strategist

[spare pier]

Yeah because Yharon dying and being chucked into lava was a very common occurrence in the draconic era

[young socket]

we dont even know if dogma was like

even there

[wanton pendant]

Dogma wouldn't have any reason to know that Yharon can be super incubated by literal magma because that's not something anyone would consider.

[plucky juniper]

im arguing because i think this is stupid

[young socket]

the cultists couldve just acted on their own

[long bloom]

this argument is over, done

[spare pier]

Bro I don't think even YHARON knew that

😭

[young socket]

actually its very likely that dogma wasnt there or else hed either get killed or kill yharim and yharon

[wanton pendant]

I said that earlier!

[spare pier]

Like, in what situation would that be able to be tested?

[plucky juniper]

YHARON DIDNT?

???????????????????????

[zenith geode]

how would he know

[wanton pendant]

I LITERALLY SAID THIS EARLIER!?

[long bloom]

WOULD YOU IF YOU WERE HIM???

[spare pier]

"Hey so I'm gonna get killed and you'll superheat my egg, let's see if I hatch earlier"

Like

[young socket]

"hey zeratros next time i die can you dump my egg into lava?"

[hybrid barn]

I don't think he would've taken a lot of magma baths as a chick

[plucky juniper]

he almost certainly has gone through the process of rebirth a few times. maybe he could've known, "Hey, heat quickens my rebirth"

[long bloom]

how.

[zenith geode]

doesnt his egg always teleport to the aerie on death

[wanton pendant]

I don't think Yharon can watch himself hatch.

[long bloom]

yeah

[spare pier]

In what situation would he be heated to the point of noticeably quickening his rebirth?

[dusk laurel]

what fucking situation would the dragon of rebirth want to test dying in lava

[long bloom]

also he's dead

[wanton pendant]

Unless he learned a technique from a Tibetan Monk.

[plucky juniper]

eh it doesnt matter if yharon knows he can get lava-boosted into life again

[young socket]

we have only one known confirmation of him dying

[wanton pendant]

But LITERALLY NOBODY knew that worked.

Because in most cases, being thrown into magma kinda kills you.

[plucky juniper]

it matters if dogma CANT EVEN HAVE THE SLIMMEST IDEA that yharon could be potentially untouchable by fire

[wanton pendant]

He has literally no reason to believe so.

[spare pier]

Because, maybe, and just maybe, if he did die, the Dragons would make their utmost priority be to protect his egg because he is literally the motherfucker who can rebirth them

And like

Fire is usually very deadly

[hybrid barn]

There's kind of a problem with that: he isn't

[wanton pendant]

Yharon can breathe fire. That doesn't mean he's lava proof.

[hybrid barn]

Like even if they could've considered it, they'd just be wrong

[zenith geode]

keeping his egg in the aerie and not doing something that might just kill him is a very safe plan

[wanton pendant]

Hell, it would have probably worked if he wasn't so close to being reborn anyway.

[long bloom]

i can spit water, i'd still drown if i was surrounded by it

[zenith geode]

even if they did decide to test it, the stakes would be way too high to be worth testing

[hybrid barn]

He's resistant to fire damage, but he still takes it, it would've just been less effective than it usually is

[wanton pendant]

Who knows how long was left, a week, a day, hours, minutes?

[young socket]

hes immune to on fire CLEARLY hes lava proof

[long bloom]

[main tiger]

The cultist who deduced that yharon was going to be born because of that stupidity:

[tardy root]

Hmmm, this may need further testing

[plucky juniper]

this is just semantics we ultimately know the magma didnt do anything to yharon

[long bloom]

no we don't

[young socket]

rare raesh in lore discussion appearance

[wanton pendant]

Yes, because you know the aftermath.

[long bloom]

he could've been injured

[spare pier]

And also, yeah like, I think it'd be a very genuine fear most dragons would have that if the egg broke, Yharon could just die for real

[plucky juniper]

the argument is supposed to be, "Should the cult have known this?"

[wanton pendant]

The cultists at the time can't see the future.

[dusk laurel]

guys lets throw the most important dragon into molten lava just in case
-said the auric dragons never

[tardy root]

Something got picked up by auto mod (it wasn't real) so figured I'd pop in

[plucky juniper]

what are you babbling about

[hybrid barn]

Not only do we not know if he was injured or not, but also...this is kind of "haha, the characters don't know what I do" logic

[wanton pendant]

We didn't even say Hitler this time!

[young socket]

fuck beat me to it

[main tiger]

Even if they didn't, someone must have doubted that decision.

[wanton pendant]

Haven't you been paying attention to what we've been saying?

[tardy root]

You have no idea how much this happens.

[long bloom]

why

[eager bluff]

i think its fair to state if yharon was affected by the lava in any way it didnt matter

[plucky juniper]

i never said the auric dragons CONSIDERED tossing their big boy into lava

[long bloom]

this is true

[main tiger]

Pragmatism

[hybrid barn]

And they probably would've gotten thrown in with the two

[wanton pendant]

Pragmatic answer was killing Yharon as quickly as possible.

[spare pier]

Anyways, yeah no I think Yharon's egg being thrown in lava makes perfect sense because there is basically no way of knowing it would've quickened his rebirth

[plucky juniper]

only that they could've deduced, "maybe lava wouldn't kill our precious little yharon"

[wanton pendant]

Magma kills stuff quickly.

[plucky juniper]

why not just fucking crush the thing

[main tiger]

Yep

[wanton pendant]

Why on Earth would anyone think that?

[wanton pendant]

It's probably huge.

[eager bluff]

anyways yharon is probably immune to lava because hes immune to on fire hellfire and dragonfire

[long bloom]

maybe it's unbreakable

[zenith geode]

rebirth egg is probably really tough

[hybrid barn]

Because it would've just like...broken the egg open?

[plucky juniper]

i mean crush it, as in really crush the egg

[hybrid barn]

They'd need the strength to crush him as a chick to make that work

[long bloom]

also yeah if he was about to hatch

breaking it seems even more counterproductive

[hybrid barn]

Because he was still in there, as a tiny baby dragon

[dusk laurel]

the soul probably wouldve just teleported away

[wanton pendant]

That's close to hatching?
Great, you've hastened his rebirth.

[spare pier]

1 - That thing is probably really damn hard
2 - If there is no apparent danger to what you're about to do, you'll just go with the plan that would likely create the biggest reaction out of people

Like, y'know

[zenith geode]

actually what would even happen if the eggshell was broken like would there be a little yharon embryo in there

[wanton pendant]

Good job.
That's exactly how it went for the cult.

[spare pier]

Executing the motherfucker with the egg he wanted to protect?

[plucky juniper]

okay really tho my main issue is that just refusing to eat the soul doesnt feel as impactful as it should be

[main tiger]

I assume the egg was too solid to be broken beforehand

[tardy root]

guys, maybe they wanted to try hard boiled yharon egg, and that's why they did lava

[long bloom]

ture

[long bloom]

what does this even mean

[wanton pendant]

It literally killed hundreds of thousands at least.

[eager bluff]

can harboil eg hatch

[main tiger]

Wasn't it that Yharim had hidden potential as a child?

[plucky juniper]

?

[wanton pendant]

Perchance.

[zenith geode]

they probably never tried breaking the egg cuz something something exactly the same as magma birth

[wanton pendant]

Never mentioned at any point.

[hybrid barn]

Well that feels...more like a you problem, because the fact that he'd refuse to become a god when given the chance on a silver platter is a big part of his character

[wanton pendant]

There was a whole Crusade because of this.

[spare pier]

Imagine you spent 20 years raising ONE GUY to do something, and when it's time to do what you raised this guy to do, he says "go fuck yourself", starts thrashing shit and now congrats you just wasted the last 20 years on a vain effort

[plucky juniper]

no, thats not the point. his INITIAL refusal doesnt feel as impactful as it should be

because it just doesnt seem right

[wanton pendant]

How could it be any more impactful.

[long bloom]

how.

[spare pier]

And yes, they didn't have a backup, because that would be really fucking stupid!

[hybrid barn]

But- why? And how?

[plucky juniper]

the man literally says, "I rejected their whims, and upended their scheme."

[long bloom]

it's literally the crux of yharim's character

[hybrid barn]

Well yeah...that's what he did

[plucky juniper]

You'd expect a whole lot more from that line than "I said no."

[spare pier]

Imagine you raise two guys to do something but when you get around to do it, one of the guys just gets told "nah you were just a backup"

[wanton pendant]

Putting Yharim was groomed for 20 years into the inarguable canonical real document.

[hybrid barn]

Rebecca already said earlier that he was at least insinuated to have also attacked them before being sentenced to death

[spare pier]

Yeah, again

[hybrid barn]

Personally, I trust her word

[plucky juniper]

okay that sounds about right

[young socket]

no first he says

[spare pier]

"I rejected their whims and upended their schemes"

[young socket]

Destiny is for the weak.

[plucky juniper]

that makes a little more sense

[main tiger]

? How? 👀💀

[spare pier]

First comes the rejection, then comes the upending

[wanton pendant]

What do you mean how?

[long bloom]

he was a slave

[zenith geode]

they tried to shape him into being the god-king

[main tiger]

Oh i remember ...

[spare pier]

I mean, that's not really said anywhere but, yeah it's pretty clear what was going on

They got Yharim and tried molding him into being the God-king

[young socket]

crabulon lore item my beloved,,,,

well specifically its last line

[wanton pendant]

How ghastly.

[young socket]

not that kind of line !!!

tupid

[spare pier]

Anyways yeah, recapitulating

[wanton pendant]

You're surrendering?

Why on Earth are those words so similar?

[hybrid barn]

Are they?

[young socket]

anyways crabulon lore item is cool cuz it gives insight on yharim pre yharon which we dont rlly see often

[hybrid barn]

Also yeah, in one of the last places you'd expect too

[spare pier]

Yharim refused to absorb Yharon's soul and "upended their schemes", before being inevitably captured and sentenced to execution by lava bath. They chose to throw Yharon's egg alongside him as it was close to hatching and they had to reset the timer. They had no idea it could quicken his rebirth, and it was generally the easiest and most fitting way of doing so

[hybrid barn]

Actually makes me wonder though, how big was Yharon as a newborn in that case?

[upper warren]

I’ve heard it takes about 10 years for yharon to hatch, but how long would it take if he were being incubated the entire time? Hypothetically

[feral skiff]

big egg

[wanton pendant]

Depends on the conditions probably.

[wanton pendant]

Big and strong enough to carry Yharim.

[dusk laurel]

big bird

[cosmic zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/hey-buddy-we're-going-to-boil-you-alive-horton-hears-a-who-gif-16788766676001831131

[dusk laurel]

🔥

[main tiger]

XD

[cosmic zenith]

I personally interpret the lava as the supreme eraser of evidence

[hybrid barn]

That's what made me wonder, because it was definitely enough for him to lift himself and Yharim out of the magma pit and help him fight off the rest of the cult, but all the while, he would've been like this

[cosmic zenith]

Sure, they could try to smash the egg

[glacial rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/feral-hog-viral-hog-pig-call-calling-gif-13492869264629174909

[cosmic zenith]

But that might not go as clean

[glacial rampart]

fuck i forgot no gif perms

[cosmic zenith]

Who the fuck would jump into lava for fun?

[main tiger]

It sounds like something very grimdark.

[glacial rampart]

its literally the horrible hog

[wanton pendant]

What if you smash it open and Yharon is just there and then he eats you.

[cosmic zenith]

There's also that

[hybrid barn]

No worries, I gotcha

[wanton pendant]

Azafure has weird traditions, obviously.

[glacial rampart]

THATS NOT WHATI POSTED

😭

ALSO HOW DID YOU POST THAT 😭

[dusk laurel]

LMAO

[hybrid barn]

The hobbit as they lie

[wanton pendant]

It's what was in your heart.

[glacial rampart]

WHAT

[hybrid barn]

Also I'm...well I'm actually not a Patreon member anymore, so your guess is as good as mine-

[glacial rampart]

WHY DID IT SAVE AS MP4

[dusk laurel]

its a secret

[hybrid barn]

In your mind, you meant to post this

But in your heart

[cosmic zenith]

Lmao

What is with you and feral hogs guys

[long bloom]

they're horrible

[glacial rampart]

the horrible goh

hog

[hybrid barn]

I don't know, but I'm going along with it

[frozen zodiac]

horrendous hog

terrible hog

malevolent hog

[long bloom]

abhorrent hog

[glacial rampart]

this hog is horrible because it wants to kill you

[hybrid barn]

Just like...bam, Amidiasbang

[dusk laurel]

what the hell

[frozen zodiac]

this hog is divine because it wants to save you

[wanton pendant]

America has already been surrounded by the truth. It is time to embrace the hogs.

[dusk laurel]

isnt florida infested with feral hogs

idk im not a florida person

[frozen zodiac]

5 million pigeons

[wanton pendant]

You don't need to call the Floridians 'feral hogs'.

[long bloom]

and arizona

[hybrid barn]

I am and I can confirm (I live in Iowa)

[long bloom]

😭

[glacial rampart]

yeah the massive feral hogs are actually real

[dusk laurel]

[icy veldt]

No... that would be your mother!

[main tiger]

And what about the issue of yharon and yharim at the end?

[long bloom]

what issue

[main tiger]

.

[frozen zodiac]

what would the yharim lore item for horrible hog be

[glacial rampart]

"what the fuck happened to this hog"

[hybrid barn]

All we know is that he was "big enough"

[long bloom]

"what a horrible hog"

[frozen zodiac]

"You found the legendary artifact!
Take it?
•Yes
You are carrying too many hogs."

[wanton pendant]

"Few species are as industrious as the common pig.
But these malformed, malcontent and malicious mammals wish to sow nothing but their horrible horror upon Terraria.
Do not underestimate these savages. Their hearts are cold and dead, and their minds forsook the concept of mercy long ago."

[plucky juniper]

i feel like there were other ideas to just deal with Yharon's egg

[wanton pendant]

So?
They went with the most obvious.

[long bloom]

we've given several reasons why lava was the most sensible choice

[plucky juniper]

lava does not seem that sensible

[frozen zodiac]

someone didnt look up that phoenix's are associated with fire

stupids

[wanton pendant]

It is exceedingly sensible.

[long bloom]

he's a dragon

also fire tends to kill things

[wanton pendant]

It isn't the cults fault Yharon's rebirth was miraculously hastened.

As it was something literally nobody could have possibly known.

[plucky juniper]

like, again, Dogma, if Triangle is to be said, probably knew enough about Yharon to know that lava might not have a easy time killing him, even in his egg-form

[wanton pendant]

WHY!

EXPLAIN!

[wanton pendant]

That doesn't defend your answer.

[plucky juniper]

he was a draconic monk. he would probably know a lot more about yharon than most people

[long bloom]

they didn't do fucking
lava experiments

[wanton pendant]

So?

[plucky juniper]

NOT NECESSARY

[wanton pendant]

At what point would that give him the knowledge that LAVA MAKES HIM HATCH FASTER!

[plucky juniper]

they can EXTRAPOLATE

from knowledge of yharon

[long bloom]

.

[young socket]

what knowledge

that it takes 8 seconds to cook yharon from the inside while he was an egg instead of 7 which is precisely the exact amount of time it would take to hatch a nearly hatching yharon if he was suddenly dumped in lava

[wanton pendant]

There is literally nothing about Yharon that implies that chucking his unborn self into the magma of hell wouldn't be fatal.

Like it would be fatal to literally everything else that isn't MADE OF LAVA!

[plucky juniper]

he should have at least had enough knowledge of yharon being possibly more resilient to firey stuff, and then he could extrapolate that to suggest that it might not be the best idea to just chuck him into lava

chuck him into something else

like... THE ABYSS?

[magic epoch]

belly

[wanton pendant]

You are asking them to have figured that because an adult, fully grown and at full strength Yharon can resist fire means that his unborn self is immune to lava.

[magic epoch]

mm yummy

[plucky juniper]

well okay thats contingent on that being nearby but i dont think that was

[magic epoch]

im sure theres something that would eat the eggs

[wanton pendant]

That's like saying because you wouldn't kill me if you punched me means that babies are immune to being punched.

[magic epoch]

like... a gulper eel maybe

[plucky juniper]

gulper eel ascending into a god because some chumps tossed a dragon egg into it

[long bloom]

cool yharon hatches in the abyss

he's still there

[main tiger]

Xd

[magic epoch]

thats not ascension thats just eating yummy

[long bloom]

you have to deal with him now

[magic epoch]

didnt know he cant drown

and is immune to the immense pressure

[plucky juniper]

its the abyss. i feel like he might have trouble being trapped underneath a cold, high-pressure area deep underwater

[icy veldt]

What about having a gulper eel bite off half of Yharon's egg?

[wanton pendant]

Well obviously because he's a dragon he'd be fine.

[plucky juniper]

YEAH SURE MAN SURE

[magic epoch]

hed just rebirth infinitely! right guys

[long bloom]

dragons are significantly tougher than humans i think

[plucky juniper]

and yet hes apparently not immune to lava despite that stuff only quickening his birth

[magic epoch]

i think its just heat in general and not lava

was he like actually submerged in the lava for a long enough time for it to be reallybad

[plucky juniper]

also theres plenty of dangerous stuff down there, and considering hes probably just born

[magic epoch]

dowe even know that

[plucky juniper]

well

[wanton pendant]

We don't.

For all we know neither Yharon nor Yharim actually hit the magma.

[plucky juniper]

i dont think i'd have a good time if i was an auric dragon that wasnt used to the underwater and was reborn deep within it suddenly

[wanton pendant]

Yharon also isn't used to magma.

[spare pier]

This conversation is giving me a fucking aneurysm bro

[dusk laurel]

theyd have to transport him from hell to the surface then the abyss and then make sure his egg sinks

very sensible

[long bloom]

can you ban everyone here

[spare pier]

Also new Rebecca headmate dropped

Anyways like

[glacial rampart]

hihi

[plucky juniper]

did i just drive rebecca so mad she created a new headmate

[long bloom]

drive her so what

[magic epoch]

feels like

[glacial rampart]

you could say its quite horrible. that its gone hog wild

[magic epoch]

-3

[long bloom]

-5

[spare pier]

Yes there are 300 fuckjillion ways you could get rid of the egg and functionally all of them would do the job. Throwing the fucking egg in lava was supposedly one of those methods but it didn't work, because no one had any damn clue it wouldn't

[magic epoch]

stupid GODs dont KNOW a DMAN!!

[spare pier]

Also no I've been a thing for like 3 hours

[dusk laurel]

this is a situation where the benefit of hindsight i think drastically changes what we think of the issue

[icy veldt]

Smash it with a Nokia 3310

[glacial rampart]

i just realized this conversation has been going for like an hour how 😭

[spare pier]

Yes, it does

[long bloom]

how does it feel being 3 hours old

[spare pier]

Idk

[main tiger]

Shouldn't Yharim have researched the egg during his childhood?

[dusk laurel]

what

[wanton pendant]

How and when?

[spare pier]

It's like, ok you have 500 weapons you can shoot someone with, and any of them would instantly kill the person

There is one gun that will make the person immune to bullets

But you don't even know that such a gun even is in the room

And you accidentally picked that one gun

Which was also the most convenient weapon to shoot that guy with at the time

[long bloom]

he definitely did not have access to the egg until it was ascending time

[hybrid barn]

How the hell did this get 90 messages in the last 15 minutes-

I swear, you blink once

[spare pier]

Anyways I'm done with this discussion I will go read Homestuck already

[glacial rampart]

how far are you!!

:D

[spare pier]

Page 3405

[wanton pendant]

What.

[spare pier]

There are like, 8000

[glacial rampart]

i need to check where that is its been a while

[long bloom]

[upper warren]

Can I ask you a question before you go kamilla?

[spare pier]

Yeah sure

[upper warren]

Would yharon have died if the egg wasn’t so close to hatching or is he just completely immune to lava?

[main tiger]

But didn't he have the egg before?

[long bloom]

no??

[wanton pendant]

No.

[spare pier]

Honestly idk

I think there is an argument for both

[main tiger]

Ou

[spare pier]

However, seeing as Yharon is not completely immune to fire ingame

[pliant ruin]

Is he immune to fire debuffs? If not, i imagine - Yeah.

It's Sancho, by the way.

[glacial rampart]

oh this part

[spare pier]

Yeah, I think he would've died

[glacial rampart]

swag

[long bloom]

what's sancho

[wanton pendant]

Calamity only has resistance to debuffs though, not damage types. There are mods that implement that I believe.

[fierce pagoda]

basically, the entire calamity lore was just a big happy coincidence

Yharim just got lucky thats all

[wanton pendant]

'Happy'.

[glacial rampart]

i need to reread homestuck

[dusk laurel]

limbus company

[fierce pagoda]

HAPPY

[spare pier]

I mean not really, the lava bath wasn't really chosen at random

But whatever

[young socket]

hes only immune to on fire, hellfire and dragonfire

[long bloom]

[young socket]

all others are resisted and deal half damage

[plucky juniper]

what if he took the egg with him and is lying about them throwing the egg with him

[upper warren]

Was this directed to me?

[fierce pagoda]

Luck of the Draw

[pliant ruin]

No, it wasn't. It wasn't directed at anyone here.

[glacial rampart]

no i dont i still have like

[upper warren]

Oh ok sry

[glacial rampart]

50 years of kamen rider to watch

[pliant ruin]

To those who don't understand, don't worry about it.

[long bloom]

is this rp rot

[pliant ruin]

No.

[main tiger]

So why don't we assume that Yharim, before he had the egg, was fascinated by dragons since childhood and that, before he was captured, he saw how they were born?

[pliant ruin]

Anyways, if he's immune to On Fire i assume he could also be immune to lava. Both are just, mundane heat, i suppose.

Not entirely out of question. Could go either way.

[wanton pendant]

How could he possibly know that?

When on Earth would he see an Auric Dragon be born?
All but one were dead by then.

[long bloom]

but is he immune to lethal lava burn

[plucky juniper]

i mean im gonna assume they really did a number on his psychology when they enslaved him

and also probably enslaved him really early on in life

if not outright from birth

[fierce pagoda]

can't wait until the entire calamity lore is revealed

and we can finally discuss the lore for real

instead of having to guess all the time

[glacial rampart]

i dont think there will be anything to discuss when we understand the full reach of the horrible fucking hog

[wanton pendant]

It all came to me in a dream.
Yharim is allergic to olives by the way.

[pliant ruin]

I do wonder how exactly the God of Dogma and the fellow members of his cult treated Yharim - It'd be unlikely for them to have treated him openly horribly if they wanted to manipulate him.

So i find it far more likely, Yharim, much like how he himself would come to treat his army, was treated well;

[fierce pagoda]

after calamity lore is finished, there will be so much text its going to become a visual novel

[pliant ruin]

And the defiance more so came from him seeing how unjust their treatments of others was.

[plucky juniper]

that makes sense

[main tiger]

Yharim was a prisoner, not a slave.

[dusk laurel]

dont worry there will be plenty to still guess

[spare pier]

Yharim wasn't really anything, man

He was more like an apprentice

[fierce pagoda]

im talkin guess not as in plot lines intentionally left ambiguous, but more as in guessing stuff that we will get elaboration on, but we just havent gotten to that update yet

[pliant ruin]

Him refusing to consume Yharon's soul being a surprise to the God-cult would then make alot of sense - After all, they'd have given him a comfortable, privileged life, all to mold him in the perfect pawn.

[wanton pendant]

Man, sure glad nobody else would act so horribly, huh!

[spare pier]

It wasn't a "you're going to do this shit whether you like it or not", it was moreso

"Bro you were destined for this let us help you fulfill your destiny bro it's gonna be so rad"

[glacial rampart]

"wouldnt it be really cool if you did this shit"

[dusk laurel]

it would be so awesome, it would be so cool

[spare pier]

Yeah like that except they weren't koopas

Sadly

It would be really funny if they were but they weren't

[glacial rampart]

man when i was a kid i would spend hours of my life stomping

[main tiger]

So what led the council to want to kill Yharim?

[glacial rampart]

_ _

KOOPAS

[spare pier]

Because he didn't want to follow with the plan

If he wasn't gonna do that he was useless to them

And also he was kinda fucking everything up and would've continued to do so if not dealt with

[main tiger]

Okay, okay, now that we know this, what was Yharim doing before all these events?

[spare pier]

Training and shit

[pliant ruin]

Being indoctrinated, for one.

[abstract hedge]

Why did they throw Yharon's egg into the lava too though?

[fierce pagoda]

cuz we need a plot

[pliant ruin]

..Good question, honestly, given that the egg would in theory still be useful for them. Maybe they realized the egg was getting concerningly close to hatching and they knew having Yharon hatch here would not exactly be good.

[dusk laurel]

its because yharon was probably gonna hatch soon and they needed to reset how long before yharon wouldve hatched and been able to have his soul absorbed, and yharim just betrayed them

[hybrid barn]

Evidently so

[glacial rampart]

isnt it explicitly that they needed to reset the timer

[spare pier]

Oh my fucking God I'm going to kill someone

[pliant ruin]

Probably wouldn't want the second strongest Auric Dragon rampaging through your headquarters/city/whatever it was, specially after you've already angered him by killing him once.

[spare pier]

We've gone over this half an hour ago

[glacial rampart]

i thought this was like

literally fact

[abstract hedge]

"Oh this is the egg of a fire-related dragon, lets throw it into lava."
Was the god cult stupid? (Yes)

[main tiger]

Doesn't this create a narrative inconsistency?

[fierce pagoda]

and its kinda an hype and aura moment, Yharim is just about to die but suddenly Yharon hatches and clutched, like holy shit hype moments and aura

[pliant ruin]

...No?

[spare pier]

.

[abstract hedge]

How?

[dusk laurel]

im gonna blow my brains out

[glacial rampart]

lore discussion reading comprehension at an all time low tonight

[pliant ruin]

I was not present here for that.
...Though i suppose i could've backread.

[spare pier]

Don't worry

[wanton pendant]

He's rebirth related with some fire theming.
Not remotely enough to justify people thinking he'd be immune to molten magma as an unborn baby.

[pliant ruin]

Seems like i guessed right, anyways. Point for me.

[plucky juniper]

i dunno i think that last thing is kinda dum

[spare pier]

Go my 500 guns analogy

[dusk laurel]

guys just because dragons sometimes breathe fire doesnt mean they are immune to molten lava

[abstract hedge]

Yharon's egg was probably of a different rarity from white though, the god cult was clearly made of people who didn't understand physics.

[spare pier]

Wait you are true

[fierce pagoda]

I'll never get tired of seeing both sides argue whether the council was stupid or not for throwing Yharons egg in lava

[spare pier]

Yes that's the 500 guns analogy

[plucky juniper]

i dont get this analogy

[fierce pagoda]

its just bad luck

[main tiger]

Phoenix and fire: The Council, possessors of arcane knowledge, chose lava, the central element of the phoenix's rebirth, as a method of destruction, which was inherently contradictory.

Acceleration versus delay: Their goal was to "reset the timer" on the hatching, but the lava did not delay it; rather, it drastically accelerated it, causing Yharon to be born prematurely in order to save Yharim.

Abundance of options: There were more logical and effective methods of execution (such as the Abyss or ice magic) that the Council, as the magical authority, should have prioritized over the only option that guaranteed its failure.

[fierce pagoda]

or good luck for Yharim!

[wanton pendant]

Get me 500 guns. For unspecified reasons.

[fierce pagoda]

a happy coincidence

[pliant ruin]

I do not think the relation of Yharon with fire is enough to guess he'd be reborn from being tossed into lava - It seems like an obvious thing because we have that information.

[wanton pendant]

Did you make a god damn chat bot right this!?

[glacial rampart]

right this

[hybrid barn]

It's not inconsistent, it just means that they tried something and it didn't work

[abstract hedge]

They were stupid either way for following the evil ass god of dogma.

[spare pier]

The egg is the person, the 500 guns is the fuckjillion ways they could've disposed of the egg

[wanton pendant]

It is entirely possible that Yharon is the LITERAL ONLY THING CALLED A PHEONIX.

[plucky juniper]

the issue is that the gun in question isn't ltierally identical to all of them

[spare pier]

When did I say they were?

[abstract hedge]

How does Yharim being indoctrinated beforehand contradict the council being made of dumbasses?

[wanton pendant]

It looks like a gun, sure it's coloured red, but all the other guns are also different colours.

[spare pier]

No it's more like

[wanton pendant]

And at no point is anyone, anywhere aware that the anti-gun gun exists.

[spare pier]

You have a desert eagle, and also a rocket launcher, and also an AR, and also an AK-47, and also a honest to God cannon, and also a fucking handheld particle accelerator or some shit

[fierce pagoda]

mhm mhm Yharon just got really lucky that all the stars aligned, perfect chain of events happened that lead to the council throwing the egg in lava. talk about low odds! thats like, farming for a rod of discord and it dropping from the first chaos elemental

[spare pier]

Point is, you have a lot of distinct guns

And whatever you fire is gonna kill the person

[plucky juniper]

the analogy has a flaw in that the gun that makes the guy invincible is, in my opinion, has that quality be understood if you happen to think at all

[spare pier]

No bro it doesn't

[wanton pendant]

IT IS NOT SOMETHING A SINGLE SANE PERSON WOULD THINK!

[dusk laurel]

okay yeah, but no one knew that the egg could withstand magma, its not a failing of intelligence this is just new information that they learned

[spare pier]

The entire point is that you enter the room without even knowing there is a gun that makes the person invincble

[hybrid barn]

There's kind of a problem I'm seeing with this argument, personally

[wanton pendant]

It's like saying 'obviously the gamma bomb would turn you into the Hulk,' no, of course not, that's insane.

[dusk laurel]

thats not being stupid thats them being evil?

[hybrid barn]

Short of teleporting them into space, any of the available options would've had similar results

[young socket]

idk man have u ever been blasted by a gamma ray

[fierce pagoda]

you see, normally Lava melts things cuz its so hot, Lava melts even eggs, its not like they knew that Yharons egg had special properties that speeds it up in lava

[wanton pendant]

Thrice.

It hurts.

[plucky juniper]

a sane person could come to the conclusion that magma could make the egg of the phoenix hatch faster instead of killing it

[fierce pagoda]

how would they even know

[wanton pendant]

WHY WOULD THEY!?

[plucky juniper]

go on, just grab a random person off the street, ask them what would happen if you tossed a phoenix egg into lava

[abstract hedge]

Joke---->

Your head

[dusk laurel]

how would they be dumb is NO ONE knew this, this makes no sense

[hybrid barn]

Of course, because somehow a few users here are severely underestimating how hot magma is

[young socket]

how is dumping an egg in lava the same as incubation,,,,

[wanton pendant]

Are you entirely sure you know what a Pheonix is?

[abstract hedge]

Might aswell be the same thing.

[wanton pendant]

The whole fire theming is because FIRE KILLS THEM!

[spare pier]

No that doesn't make any fucking sense because the phoenix is still a fucking normal ass living creature that would still fucking die if you threw it in a fucking lava vat, specially when it was a bloody fucking egg

[fierce pagoda]

I know my Paranoid self would lowkey NOT put he egg in lava, id just smash it with a hammer or something

[wanton pendant]

FIRE KILLS THE PHEONIX, AND THEN IT COMES BACK TO LIFE!

[fierce pagoda]

para-paranoia

[main tiger]

I see that indoctrination did not affect his logic, at least, since those on the council, unlike him, were idiots.

[dusk laurel]

cool

[spare pier]

Even in Terraria, I am pretty sure there is a single enemy that is immune to laval damage

[pliant ruin]

I stand by what i said earlier - The fact Yharon has an association with fire power wouldn't be enough to guess that heat would accelerate his rebirth. Perhaps it seems obvious due to the correlation to us, but that's because we know of that information.
Sure, maybe someone could deduce that. But without any evidence it'd be purely conjecture without any actual evidence.

[wanton pendant]

So if you go by the legend, then fire makes sense because that's literally what killed a Pheonix in the story.

[spare pier]

Being

A fucking Lava Slime

[plucky juniper]

"phoenix is still a fucking normal ass living creature"
looks inside
it will literally rebirth after dying

[spare pier]

Yeah, as an egg

[plucky juniper]

also it has fiery themes

[hybrid barn]

...that's...

[wanton pendant]

After being killed by fire. Which kills it. Because fire kills things.

[spare pier]

In the place where they can just go and get it later

[hybrid barn]

that's the point, Overdone

[wanton pendant]

That's why they are associated with fire.

Because it kills them.

[dusk laurel]

yharon isnt a literal phoenix hes still an organic creature

[fierce pagoda]

If ANY of the council members were just a tad bit more PARANOID

[plucky juniper]

and also. my issue is that Dogma should probably know more about yharon enough to conclude that the phoenix might be more immune to fire, even as an egg

[fierce pagoda]

theyd have never tossed it in lava maybe

[wanton pendant]

HE HAS LITERALLY NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT.

[main tiger]

@abstract hedge

[hybrid barn]

Also yeah, none of this really matters because Yharon isn't made of fire, he just spits it

[plucky juniper]

he has some...

[young socket]

this just in toxic snakes are apparently immune to any and all poisons

[dusk laurel]

oh my god this is literally a sisyphean task

[spare pier]

We are going in circles and I'm going to fucking shoot my head clean off with a sawed shotgun

[wheat walrus]

Don't do it twin

[spare pier]

Jesus fucking Christ

[wanton pendant]

NO HE DOES NOT!

[plucky juniper]

just like the phoenix's cycle of rebirth

[young socket]

you should use the gun that makes you invincible instead

[wheat walrus]

Also dang it fr happened

[fierce pagoda]

what happened

[hybrid barn]

Yharon

[plucky juniper]

🤨

[pliant ruin]

This argument is rather pointless. The same explanations are being given repeatedly, yet it's going nowhere. Might aswell move onto something else.

[fierce pagoda]

If Yharon was a pirate he would be called Yharrr!

[dusk laurel]

gator if you want to do so you can backread the last hour of our "quaint debate"

[pliant ruin]

..Though i don't know what that something else would be.

[hybrid barn]

Or in other words, like a pheonix, a pointless argument was reborn into the lore discussion

[wheat walrus]

I'm gonna hunt you twin

[fierce pagoda]

I've been reading a lot, were just going in circles

[dusk laurel]

exactly

[upper warren]

Hey kamilla, since you’re still here can I ask another unrelated question?

[glacial rampart]

yeah if you jumped into a volcano the heat would kill you way before you touched any kind of lava or magma

also as was mentioned before

fire is what kills the pheonix

regardless of anything else

but also

[plucky juniper]

yharon is not a normal human being

[glacial rampart]

they wouldnt know that cuz yharon is probably the only pheonix 😭

[plucky juniper]

he's a fiery dragon who also happens to be the goddamn phoenix

[abstract hedge]

I still don't see the inconsistency that the council trying to indoctrinate him beforehand causes.

[spare pier]

It is such a massive leap in logic that Yharon in egg form could not only be immune to lava, but that it would also quicken his rebirth just in the goddamn nick of time to save Yharim, and that for some reason Dogma could somehow have inferred this despite probably never even having seen Yharon die before

[hybrid barn]

I'll admit, I didn't actually know this, but it's interesting
I don't think it's relevant because Yharon isn't a literal pheonix anyways, but it's cool

[wanton pendant]

AND GUESS WHAT KILLS PHEONIXES!?

[dusk laurel]

HES NOT A PHOENIX 😭 its a TITLE for what he does and is like

[spare pier]

Not even more elemental dragons are truly immune to their domains, and sometimes can still be affected by it to some capacity. Even Yharon fully matured is not immune to fire debuffs, merely resistant to them

[plucky juniper]

you are so innocent. so blissfully unaware of the inanity of what you are saying

[wanton pendant]

THE BIRD THAT DIES TO FIRE!?

THAT BIRD!?

[fierce pagoda]

reddit type reply

[wheat walrus]

Lore discussion when the challenge is arguing over stupid miniscule detail shit and overthinking it

[glacial rampart]

I dont think i've ever seen overdone have a reasonable conversation with anyone

[young socket]

i think itd be funny if one of the elemental dragons died to an element they controlled

hubris n all that shit

[hybrid barn]

ALSO let's consider something here
Even if he didn't immediately burn to a crisp, they would've also had to assume that he'd have the strength to leap out of the lava pit and fight them immediately after being born

[plucky juniper]

well shit you got me here

[pliant ruin]

...Shall we move on, please? Thanks. This argument is not productive and is just resulting in unecessary conflict.

[fierce pagoda]

so polite

now we gotta move on, just on principle

[hybrid barn]

Fair, I just wanted to mention that since it's been pressing on my mind

[spare pier]

Also @upper warren what is it you wanted to ask?

[upper warren]

How did Scal know that draedon made a clone of her? And how did she find the exact location to go free the clone? Doesn’t seem like info draedon would be advertising to people.

[wanton pendant]

We don't know.

Maybe she was spying on him.

[spare pier]

Good question I almost wanted to retcon that until I had an idea, actually

[plucky juniper]

isn't this why they disposed of the egg instead of just leaving it around?

[young socket]

like imagine flame dragon proclaiming that no fire can kill them and that the underworld is his domain and providence shows up with the warhammer made of slightly stronger fire and beats the living shit out of him

[fierce pagoda]

Maybe she could feel a link between herself and the clone

like a soul link or something

[plucky juniper]

thatd he hatch with enough strength to cause havoc

[wanton pendant]

Since, I presume a living dragon can't be used to ascend with, and Yharon has a nasty habit of teleporting away when he dies, they probably needed to dispose of him quickly.

To, you know, get him an egg again.

[plucky juniper]

Dogma knows the egg spawns in the Aerie, otherwise it'd be hard to get the egg in the first place. so teleporting away shouldn't be that much a problem

[fierce pagoda]

watch me genuinely cook and eat the Yharon egg

[hybrid barn]

In hindsight, I'd like to apologize for that

[fierce pagoda]

anyways

What I'd like to ask is

how did portals work again in calamity? I remember they were explained in an bestiary entry

but they forgot to include the entry

[pliant ruin]

Which, exactly?

[fierce pagoda]

the cosmic lantern i think?

[wanton pendant]

It does mean that they need him to be an egg. So they can't kill him when they need him dead, they need to do it ahead of time.

[fierce pagoda]

it was one of the things Signus summons

[pliant ruin]

I'd reckon there are many different types of portals, and different varieties would operate differently.

Let me check the bestiary entry for that, one moment.

[spare pier]

The Cosmic Mine entry

It's Cosmic Mine

[fierce pagoda]

but I remember it mention that it costs a lot of energy to keep them open

right?

oram i tripping

[spare pier]

Yeah, it does

[cosmic zenith]

You could technically ascend with a living Dragon, and that'd kill it

[fierce pagoda]

yeah okay good

[cosmic zenith]

But uh

Have fun trying to do the whole ritual while a Dragon is out to kill you

[wheat walrus]

my beloved

[wanton pendant]

Good to know.

[main tiger]

The ideology of that same council was its downfall.

[fierce pagoda]

so the giant portla in the dungeon, ceasleess void, Something or someone is keeping that thing constantly open right?

whos fueling the ceaseless void to keep it ope

[hybrid barn]

Can that one be found on the wiki? It's not on Signus' page

[cosmic zenith]

It's just not a very viable option

[fierce pagoda]

porbaby Noxus

[spare pier]

Opening a portal is very hard and takes a lot of energy. When the portal ceases to be maintained, it will violently collapse and release all the energy put into it all at once

[plucky juniper]

just do a zoh shia on him

[wanton pendant]

Cosmic Mine doesn't have an entry?

[plucky juniper]

trap him in an awesome crystal prison whilst you go find someone suited to eating him

[fierce pagoda]

right, so someone IS maintaining ceaseless void then!

[spare pier]

CV is stated to be "perfectly stable" by Yharim

[main tiger]

Right?

[fierce pagoda]

wow, and its a pretty big portal too

[dusk laurel]

perfectly stable for at least 1000 years at that

[wanton pendant]

Yharim probably refers to himself as perfectly stable.

[fierce pagoda]

meaning who ever is keeping it stable must have a LOT of energy

[long bloom]

assuming noxus is the one doing that, i wonder why they need it to be open

[cosmic zenith]

Yeah, because a Dragon will definitely stay imprisoned

[wheat walrus]

Zoh Shia did that to itself to slurp energy after obliterating its creators for all we know

[hybrid barn]

Probably so Distortion entities can invade Terraria

[plucky juniper]

i mean, calamitas did that to permafrost

[fierce pagoda]

permafrost bro

[spare pier]

If you freeze a dragon solid you have basically killed the fucker already

[fierce pagoda]

that bum compared to Yharon?

[long bloom]

permafrost isn't a dragon

[plucky juniper]

[pliant ruin]

"These lanterns possess a magical, distorted flame that radiates no heat whatsoever. If one looks closely into their fire, they may see another world entirely."

Oh, apologies. That's the lantern.

[plucky juniper]

that implies the lanterns are portals

which is

[cosmic zenith]

Yep
And while Cryogen is up, you have no access to Permafrost

[plucky juniper]

funny

[fierce pagoda]

anyways I think the portal thing is really cool, some guy has been keeping ceaseless void stable for 1000 years like holy shit

hype moments and aura

[cosmic zenith]

Not to mention that it's fucking Calamitas

[pliant ruin]

I cannot seem to find the Cosmic Mine entry in the mod's wiki, is it in one of the documments?

[young socket]

permafrost probably consented

[dusk laurel]

its in the old (not old lore) lore doc

i think

[main tiger]

Yharim is the pseudo-rationalized manifestation of that ideology.

That it was actually a mistaken ideology.

[young socket]

cuz its not since its a difficulty exclusive enemy and therefore has no bestiary entry

[wanton pendant]

Ok, seriously, what's going on you weren't talking like that earlier.

[plucky juniper]

you just gave me the hilarious image of permafrost giving a thumbs up to calamitas crying her heart out while freezing her mentor

[spare pier]

No we just forgot to add it

[fierce pagoda]

lol

[long bloom]

[glacial rampart]

man, if only there was some kind of ceaseless void ..

[cosmic zenith]

Do we have it somewhere?

[wanton pendant]

Oopsie doopsie.

[spare pier]

Yeah

It's on the lore document

[cosmic zenith]

Ah

[main tiger]

Wdyt?

@wanton pendant

[spare pier]

I told people to just put it there because it should've been up already anyways so

[wanton pendant]

I already answered.

[fierce pagoda]

Imagine they stopped maintain ceaseless void, and let it collapse

how big would the explosion be

entire dungeon gone

[abstract hedge]

I forgot, is SW even still from the distortion?

[pliant ruin]

I believe the most likely scenario if they were to stop maintaining it would be that it would simply... open, allowing beings from the distortion to exit and beings from the overworld to enter.
...And that's not even most likely, since that's actually literally what's going to happen.

[pliant ruin]

Yes.

[dusk laurel]

yep

[hybrid barn]

It is, it's just not related to DoG I don't think

[wanton pendant]

Storm Weaver? Yes.

It escaped.

[dusk laurel]

its from there it just left

[fierce pagoda]

but it says that if a portal stops being maintaned it releases all of its energy put into it at once

the entry

[abstract hedge]

Yeah none of the "servants" are directly related anymore.

[pliant ruin]

Storm Weaver is seemingly related to the Devourer in some way, it is just not subservient to it or any other being. Just a small correction.

[hybrid barn]

Wasn't that dismissed by Draedon, though?

[dusk laurel]

related not biologically

the thoery is that theyre related in purpose

[pliant ruin]

Draedon simply confirmed it's not the same organism

[wanton pendant]

Species.

[plucky juniper]

correction, species

[hybrid barn]

Ahhhh yeah, makes sense
That's what I meant by not related at least, SW isn't just a younger DoG

[pliant ruin]

They are not the same species, yet there is some sort of clear relation, as indicated by the lore whispers from Weaver.

[pliant ruin]

That is what i was trying to imply, but that is better wording, yes. Thanks.

[main tiger]

They seem to remind me of the ideology of a certain Austrian painter.

[plucky juniper]

Some number of years after the Serpent joined Yharim's forces, an even more confusing addition to the equation was detected: the other, smaller serpent that you refer to as the Storm Weaver. You may have heard the claim that it is of the same species as the Devourer. Any level of in-depth inspection reveals that to be false.

Setting aside the similar body shape, basic x-rays proved that their endoskeletons were entirely different, and the difference in size tells all else needed. In fact, from what little I have grasped about both Serpents' biology, the Storm Weaver may have been older than the Devourer despite the sheer difference in power and size. However, I am not confident enough in this conjecture to state it as fact.
-Draedon's log on Devourer of Gods

[dusk laurel]

this is not necessary at all

[hybrid barn]

Oop, there goes a Hitler mention

[pliant ruin]

This chat does tend to do those often.

[young socket]

oop there goes automod

[wanton pendant]

Yharim is like Hitler? You really think the genocidal narcissist who wishes to purge the world of those he collectively judges at inherent evil is like Hitler?
You're right.

[pliant ruin]

..Would be best to tone them down, methinks.

[young socket]

and there goes automod again

[plucky juniper]

AUTOMAD

[abstract hedge]

Well yeah Yharim is very genocidal.

[pliant ruin]

Well, i'm off to play Stardew Valley now. Seems like a interesting game.
Hopefully don't kill eachother while i'm gone.

[hybrid barn]

Considering that their bodies are actually pretty different too, I like to imagine Yharim was just like "No way...two Distortion worms...they must be brothers!"

[main tiger]

His ideology is pseudo-rational, but not entirely rational

So I came to that conclusion thanks to that.

[wanton pendant]

No part of his ideology is rational.

[plucky juniper]

i mean, he was literally sentenced to death by a bunch of god cultists for not wanting to be a god

who, mind you, had raised him throughout his entire life up to that point

its not rational, but it is understandable why he went so nuts and genocidal

[abstract hedge]

Like half of the gods were evil as hell so it's understandable, even if he is very wrongm

[main tiger]

Since when did the calamity lore become more grimdark?

[long bloom]

february 2023

[hybrid barn]

Since the inception of new lore, at least

[wanton pendant]

Baseless speculation. We have no idea the demographics of their morality.
For all we know the evil ones were a small minority, or they may well have been the majority.
All we know is that they certainly weren't the only kind of god.

[abstract hedge]

Eh it's not grimdark levels but the world does suck with the crimson, corruption, all dragons being dead, most gods being dead, and the world's largest genocide just having ended.
Also the evil hell continent.

[hybrid barn]

What we do know, at least, is that dragon-hunters were relatively common among gods

[wanton pendant]

Which doesn't inherently make them evil. There were malevolent dragons, for instance.

[hybrid barn]

They needed to get ahold of auric souls somehow, and a lot of the time, that meant outright killing a dragon

[abstract hedge]

Well we only know the morality of a few gods (like prov, agnus, Silva, SG, gods of dogma and war, otonilou, and tyrian) and a lot of them are good but there's also plenty of evil ones.
Cough cough hyperhole

[wanton pendant]

It's not unreasonable that many gods were initially setting out to slay a dangerous dragon, and ascended to prevent them from being revived.

[hybrid barn]

which yeah, isn't inherently evil, but Yharim never exactly got to see what the malevolent dragons were like

Oh wait, I guess that's besides the point

[abstract hedge]

Only evil dragon I can think of is the flame one but there's probably others, especially because we don't know most of their moralities.

Oh yharon kinda but not really.

[wanton pendant]

Yharon?
The one who participated in a genocide?

The racist one?

That dragon?

[abstract hedge]

They're genocidal but that's very understandable for them.

Yeah that one

They're not good.

[wanton pendant]

I feel like he's not a bastion of moral fibre.

[abstract hedge]

They're led to the crusade so yeah no.

[plucky juniper]

i mean he saw the rest of his entire kind get zucced into extinction

he is literally the only auric dragon that we know still exists today

i feel like i'd probably snap if that happened to me too

not justifiable, but understandable

[abstract hedge]

I know it's cause gameplay and cool but it's kinda surprising they're the only one left and not one of the weaker dragons that could hide.

[plucky juniper]

ANYHOW

[abstract hedge]

Also we still don't know why none of them hid in the Aerie.

[plucky juniper]

my biggest issue with yharon isnt even whatever happened with his rebirth with yharim, its that yharon is just treated as a duplicate of yharim

[long bloom]

wgat

[main tiger]

I assume that not all dragons died.

[long bloom]

you're right

there's one left

[abstract hedge]

Yharon survived so yeah.

[wanton pendant]

They did. Well, except Yharon.

(Not counting Draconic Offshoots.)

[long bloom]

it's explicitly confirmed yharon is literally the only auric dragon that still exists

[wanton pendant]

Dragon Hunts were very thorough.

[abstract hedge]

Wdym? That they've got basically the same morality and ideals or something?

[main tiger]

To say that everyone died is like saying that Yharon is not one of those statistics.

[wanton pendant]

What?

[plucky juniper]

he doesnt really have much to differentiate him from yharim in character-wise. they're both individuals who just hate gods a lot, but even then, i can still see them being differentiated simply because one of them actually witnessed the extinction of their kind in person

[wanton pendant]

It's almost like the mod is unfinished and the differences will be explored in the future.

[long bloom]

we know almost nothing about yharon's personality

[main tiger]

Let's say there were a lot of auric dragons. And that 98.9% were exterminated.

[wanton pendant]

Closer to 99%.

Since, again.

1 (One) left.

[long bloom]

all but one were exterminated

[wanton pendant]

At the absolute high end, around 3k (three thousand).

[abstract hedge]

We know barely anything about his personality aside from despising gods...

[plucky juniper]

Yhar the On is probably the more sorrowful of the two Yhars, given that even if he had the knowledge that his kind weren't all saints, he'd still be sad that all of his kind are just... gone. Subsumed by humanity, whether by choice or not.

[wanton pendant]

So let's call it around 99.97% extinct.

[main tiger]

Are there any current references to Warhammer 40k in the mod?

[abstract hedge]

No

[wanton pendant]

I have no idea man.

[abstract hedge]

Afaik

[main tiger]

Yharim looks similar to a custodian

[abstract hedge]

99% chance that wasn't intentional.