lore-discussion

[frosty charm]

ok so what do you propose the solution is

because this is the third time you've looped back around into the same point

[wanton pendant]

Snowgrave him again?

[leaden bridge]

There's no solution that's the point

[frosty charm]

:hdfailure:

im gonna KILL YOU CLYDE

[leaden bridge]

no option solves anything

[cosmic zenith]

See, Ender gets it

[frosty charm]

yeah i know

but considering this is the third or fourth time they've said the same thing

im starting to think they have one

[fading helm]

Preferably try to make use of him the most, while ensuring he cant live a good life and then if possible let him die.
Also yeah looped back to the point, I just find it extremely unfair that they get to live

[leaden bridge]

You can either please the victims by enacting revenge or like not do that

[wanton pendant]

Well, life isn't fair sometimes.

[frosty charm]

maybe they shoulda just

[fading helm]

In any case i just hate seeing that happen irl i dont wanna see that in stories

[frosty charm]

been stronger than ice man

[wanton pendant]

That's why you gotta defeat Yharim to prevent it from happening again.

[frosty charm]

smh

[brazen swallow]

I think we can decide as players what to do with them (yharim, permafrost, calamitas)
the ending is open for us to continue the story in our own way

[wanton pendant]

Yharim won't accept anything other than death.

He doesn't care who's death.

[brazen swallow]

(not that any ending here isn't canon or the correct one, awful things will always be a delicate topic)

[cosmic zenith]

If you could permanently please victims by just killing the aggressor, things would be a lot more just for those victims

But unfortunately, it is not that easy

Scars don't heal that easily

[frosty charm]

ok so what about scal
i mean they did kill millions do they also deserve to rot or are they exempt

[brazen swallow]

from what I know in calamity it's so bad that there's even barely any victims left to help
unless there's a some kind of society offscreen

[frosty charm]

like yeah they were manipulated but they still took tons of lives

[wanton pendant]

She was a child manipulated into being a weapon.

The person who blames Calamitas the most is Calamitas.

[fading helm]

I reckon we need a better timeframe for us to know exactly what happened

[wanton pendant]

She likely claws for a redemption that she can't bring herself to accept.

Calamitas does stuff for 3-4 years, Ilmeris is by far her biggest operation.

[fading helm]

Personally she defo has better potential to help than perma atleast so theres thay

[leaden bridge]

don't care! She still committa da genocide

[wanton pendant]

She spends the next 12 or so years helping people in secret while living on her own in a cave.

[fading helm]

Tbh i do wonder what cal did after she left yharim

[frosty charm]

also i finally found out where im gonna take chap 1 (i think i told you in dms but idc) 🙏

[fading helm]

Seemingly she didnt try to topple him or anything

[wanton pendant]

You told me, but not the others.

[leaden bridge]

she just a cave bum

[wanton pendant]

Calamitas 'what the hell was she doing theory.'

[frosty charm]

i mean there are no others that have read it/gave feedback yet
i did send it to venus though so

[cosmic zenith]

Pretty much
We're working on ways to make the player have more of a choice in what happens to her - but at least in my personal opinion, Calamitas specifically is more useful alive than dead

[wanton pendant]

Calamitas is supposed to be too scared to face Yharim.

[fading helm]

You doing a fic or smth?

[frosty charm]

yeah

[wanton pendant]

Why would you kill the poor woman.

[fading helm]

Neat

[frosty charm]

calamity fic, building on the themes of "chasing the impossible leads to pain" and all of mcs friends die

[light linden]

personally I just want her to have a quest based on that one line about azafurian flowers

[frosty charm]

:steamhappy:

[cosmic zenith]

You can already tell that Calamitas isn't really going all murdery after Ilmeris

[fading helm]

I mean she can like try to get the mechs atleast

[cosmic zenith]

Since her known actions are faking Permafrost's death and freeing Calclone

[fading helm]

Or the clone

[leaden bridge]

There are like many reasons we can think of

[cosmic zenith]

Yeah uh

[wanton pendant]

She's may not spend the whole time on the Heartlands.

[cosmic zenith]

There are a few reasons

[brazen swallow]

calamitas was basically treated as a living weapon by yharim in a way

[wanton pendant]

Dehumanized, seen as a tool rather then a person, etc.

[fading helm]

Yeah but like on the other hand she did still kill a whole country

[wanton pendant]

Not intentionally, Yharim's just awful.

[fading helm]

She defo has far more leeway than perma

[wanton pendant]

She thought she was fighting 'the bad guys'.

[light linden]

I'd argue anyone from illmeris would kill her

[brazen swallow]

there's little details on how she did that
maybe she was forced to? maybe she was indoctrinated?

[void spoke]

Groomed, even

[fading helm]

I mean amidias deoesnt

[wanton pendant]

Because Yharim is a manipulative groomer who she likely idolised when she was younger.

[fading helm]

Thats why I reckon we need more of the story here

I doubt she was completely forced per se but defo manipulated highly

[leaden bridge]

guys the fact that she's a victim doesn't override the genocide part

[wanton pendant]

She was probably under the impression that she was fighting evil while working for him. Ilmeris is probably where she first questioned him, and being ordered to kill Permafrost is where her view utterly shifted completely.

[leaden bridge]

If anything It's the contrary

[fading helm]

Depends on the option

[void spoke]

From what I read, she was also a child during the crusade

[fading helm]

Options she had

[leaden bridge]

The genocide part overrides the victimhood

[wanton pendant]

13-16/17.

She also used the violence as a coping mechanism.

[leaden bridge]

No it really doesn't

[wanton pendant]

You know, to feel powerful after losing everything while believing she was doing the right thing.

[brazen swallow]

I don't think anyone said that it overrides it

I think

[leaden bridge]

If her options were genocide or die she should've died

[cosmic zenith]

(Nothing justifies or excuses genocide)

[fading helm]

Yeah it does, someone being forced to shoot someone doesnt have the burden of murder

[void spoke]

In her defense, she don't got no internet

[fading helm]

Now the thing is that she likely had optons

Options

[leaden bridge]

This isn't Just shooting someone

[cosmic zenith]

You can understand why she did it, even maybe recognize you'd have done the same thing depending on the circumstances - but not justify it or excuse it

[leaden bridge]

This isn't a life for a life im self defense this is grand scale geno and ecocide

[wanton pendant]

From Calamitas' perspective, she was likely manipulated into believing destroying Ilmeris was morally correct.

[void spoke]

I don't believe Calamitas is as responsible for her actions as the adults who should have kept her under control

[brazen swallow]

they took away her wifi, so she crashed out and destroyed ilmeris

[wanton pendant]

The adult who shouldn't have made her fight in the first place.

[leaden bridge]

he's dying Eitherway so he's simply not part of the discussion

[fading helm]

Like the burden of her crimes should fall on yharim and perma pretty sure

[wanton pendant]

And, to a degree, the adult who should have made sure she wasn't fighting.

[cosmic zenith]

Speaking of which, I wish people paid more attention to the ecocide part and the environmental consequences of, you know, boiling a whole sea

[frosty charm]

why did she get told to destroy ilmeris again

[fading helm]

And he higher ups of the army too

[frosty charm]

what gods were there

[wanton pendant]

Otonilou and I forgot the name.

[brazen swallow]

otonilou i think?

[void spoke]

This game would've played out so much differently if her brothers had bigger balls

[leaden bridge]

It also falls on her even if she's a minor because the crime is so large

[light linden]

I did but more so questioning where the hell the water went

[wanton pendant]

Clouds.

[brazen swallow]

tyrian iirc

[light linden]

that much water would have a pretty major effect if it rained down somewhere

[frosty charm]

like a...

rain... world?

[wanton pendant]

Rain world?

[void spoke]

The child should've just intuited the consequences of her actions!

[brazen swallow]

chat is this real

[fading helm]

Its not about being a minor specifically (tho it is a big role), if she was mind controlled or some bs then she isnt guilty of it for example
Now I doubt the devs would throw out the moral nuance about it tho

[frosty charm]

haha said it first

[void spoke]

RAIN WORLD WOOOO

[leaden bridge]

well but she wasn't being mind controlled

[cosmic zenith]

Which also speaks volumes about the lows Yharon has reached, not only partaking in genocide himself but also being complacent with the destruction of an entire civilization and ecosystem
The last of a race which allegedly guarded the world from all harm.... sure

[wanton pendant]

Again, Calamitas was likely heavily propagandised to to the point that she would very much believe the gods (and those protecting them) were pure evil.

And making a child do it.

[fading helm]

What if he highkey wanted to repent tho

[void spoke]

True!

[leaden bridge]

too late!

[cosmic zenith]

I won't speak much on the matter but it's more personal to Calamitas than just default gaslighting

[fading helm]

I think we just need more info tbh

[void spoke]

Gaslighting is very personal-

[leaden bridge]

your fav is actually like a horrible person regardless ❤️

[cosmic zenith]

Tbf it's not like you can kill Yharon

[wanton pendant]

She lives to realize she was wrong. And she almost certainly hates herself more then anyone else hates her.

[void spoke]

True!!

[fading helm]

I am on the side that she should be made of use of tho, yknow contribute to the cause

She is far too valuable of an asset rn

[light linden]

you can but it ain't well moral

[frosty charm]

are there plans for any bosses (specifically post ml ones (the only ones i care about)) to make cameo/worldbuilding appearances before you actually fight them

[wanton pendant]

The propagandising likely predated her joining the fight.

[leaden bridge]

What cause everything's dead

[light linden]

regardless of the morality of ascending

[wanton pendant]

She was from Azafure, Yharim's oldest ally.

So she likely grew up believing he was a noble hero.

[light linden]

to ascend with yharon's soul you're basically killing an unborn child

[fading helm]

Imma make a yharon farm automated with redstone

[cosmic zenith]

Calamitas is my favorite character exactly because she's just a regular person driven down a dark path

[fading helm]

We highkey need to 2v1 yharim rn

[cosmic zenith]

She's no longer a regular person, of course

[leaden bridge]

we mean that's with any dragon if you say it like that

[brazen swallow]

this opens a new unethical can of worms

[fading helm]

Im not taking chances to let that dude live

[wanton pendant]

Then she comes to him in her hour of need and he 'saves' her, driving her further into his grasp.

[void spoke]

Omg like in Wrath of the Gods

[frosty charm]

also what does yharon think of the dragon subspecies if anything

(i doubt hes racist but i gotta make sure)

[wanton pendant]

He probably thinks they're chill. Not real dragons though.

[leaden bridge]

i looove dragons i couldn't save any auric ones but i looove dragons

[cosmic zenith]

Would be really funny if Yharon was overly attached to them

[frosty charm]

I LOOOOVE Dragons... But I can't bring them back, because I'm a fraud.... But they're SOOOO Cool...

[leaden bridge]

ywah

[fading helm]

Ok no but being fr we cant take any chances im pulling up with the whole town

Probably gonna summon draedon too

[wanton pendant]

So, like, Yharim essentially had a young teen who actually still believed he wasn't a crazed maniac, who is extremely powerful and needs some way to make her feel better about herself, why not set her on his enemies, even if her dad says no, just don't tell him.

[frosty charm]

draedon aint gonna help bruh

[void spoke]

I highly doubt Draedon cares enough to help

[frosty charm]

he specifically says "ur on ur own bud"

[leaden bridge]

Draedon should send an army of drones into the aerie after you

[fading helm]

He my homie dw

[brazen swallow]

draedon would pay anything for a terrarian vs yharim fight

[void spoke]

TRUEEEEEE

[leaden bridge]

And they're just flying around scanning bullshit the whole time

[frosty charm]

i'm latching onto this but i need a reason for yharon to fight protag now... unfortunate

[fading helm]

I do hope we can manage to kill draedon tho

But like perma kill

[long bloom]

no

you literally can't

[void spoke]

"Omg I'm sorry for polluting and ruining an entire ocean and stuff and making the worst boss fight in the game, I'll fix it later"

[fading helm]

That dumbass has been on my nerves for too long

[brazen swallow]

he's like a necron form warhammer 40k
trazyn I think?

[wanton pendant]

So he tells her that he needs help killing the evil gods and their vile followers, and she believes him. She hides what she does from her dad because he wouldn't understand, she's not a little girl, she can handle herself. And she enjoys feeling strong, killing the evil gods and their followers.

[brazen swallow]

he has endless backup bodies

[long bloom]

you'd have to blow up all 5 continents

[frosty charm]

"making the worst boss fight ingame" storm weaver old duke ravager:

[wanton pendant]

Eventually, she destroys all of a kingdom, and that's where I think she began to have doubts.

[fading helm]

Imma call xeroc 💔

[frosty charm]

cryogen:

[void spoke]

Hey at least most of those are optional!

[fading helm]

You know i think its really the 10382th orphan you kill that gets you

Atleast in my experience

[wanton pendant]

After Permafrost, she was certain that she was wrong the whole time.

[cosmic zenith]

This said, there's also the whole discussion about what really is being a good or a bad person - more specifically, whether it should be a judgment of a person's default nature or their actions (regardless of the context which led to them)

[wanton pendant]

And then she probably spends the next 12+ years trying to make up for it, but no matter what she does she still hates herself.

[frosty charm]

lowk appreciate gerson so much more now that im tryna write stuff (even though im not like a professional author)

[fading helm]

Idk twin i dont think we cant shoot fire from our hands

[void spoke]

I can, loser

[frosty charm]

yes you can you're just not trying hard enough

fraud

[fading helm]

Maybe thats a perk devs get 💔

[frosty charm]

haha

[cosmic zenith]

Going with the first, Calamitas is default to good
Going with the second, she's downright atrocious

[fading helm]

NOOOO

[wanton pendant]

Just tabbed to the other page why is spongebob there.

[cosmic zenith]

And that's exactly what draws me to the character

[fading helm]

Its the actions tbh

Like the default nature of most murderers is probably not that bad

[cosmic zenith]

I think neither are an accurate judgment

[void spoke]

I'm really glad that other people see what I see in Calamitas, a child groomed into becoming a villain is something I've never seen before and find endlessly fascinating

[fading helm]

Yknow they were babies after all

[cosmic zenith]

Ehhhhhhhh

That's not really what nature is

[wanton pendant]

Calamitas probably feels like she's evil.

[fading helm]

I dont think thise 2 thing define it completely

[cosmic zenith]

Exactly my opinion as well

[void spoke]

Absolutely, we're gonna need a whole therapy arc to unpack that

[fading helm]

You have to take circumstances and other stuff as well

[frosty charm]

I think it's both y'know

[brazen swallow]

calamitas being able to change her ways and acknowledge and regret the bad things she's done is what makes her good in some way

[fading helm]

Personally i do think there is a point of no return tho

[frosty charm]

Like Yharim is obviously irredeemable but he didn't come soley from "I'm evil let's kill people ‼️" He believed in what he was doing

[brazen swallow]

maybe even make up for but she's just an npc in-game so she can't to much now

[wanton pendant]

Like, consider what we do in the game, we slaughter countless on our path to power. Now imagine if we learned near the end that we were killing innocent people primarily.

[cosmic zenith]

It's always great to explore the multi-faceted nature of human existence
There is no simple truth, just a kaleidoscope of perspectives

[frosty charm]

Was he right? Debatably no but he wasn't doing it because he loved killing people, but he did want to make the world better and safer

[long bloom]

🔥 ✍️

[fading helm]

Wym my view is objectively the correct one smh

[frosty charm]

well the objective truth is my opinion because im always right and awesome and super handsome

[brazen swallow]

he was consumed by revenge so hard

[wanton pendant]

Hey, we only got room for one handsome chap and it's me.

[leaden bridge]

he's objectively incorrect from all angels

[mossy ibex]

nuh uh, mine is smh my smh

[fading helm]

Wasnt even his revenge too

[leaden bridge]

Angles

[fading helm]

Crazy

[frosty charm]

Yeah that's the joke

[leaden bridge]

angles r like angels

Won't elaborate what that means

[wanton pendant]

I mean a few gods did try to kill him.

[cosmic zenith]

Yharim is, in fact, an example of someone who is bad from both perspectives

[void spoke]

Even just how Yharim used Calamitas makes him unforgivable in my eyes

Let alone the other shit

[cosmic zenith]

He did not receive nearly as much influence as Calamitas to choose genocide

He just chose it by default

[wanton pendant]

Like, I view what happened with Calamitas to be very much 'Yharim stretches his stance on slavery'.

She doesn't have physical chains, but she has mental ones.

[fading helm]

Back in 2022 yharim propaganda worked so well what happened 💔

[cosmic zenith]

That's another (imo) interesting aspect of Yharim

He hates physical slavery because he was subjected to it

But they never really could control him mentally

[light linden]

what

[leaden bridge]

He wasn't even subjected to it

[wanton pendant]

I am of the opinion that Calamitas was a slave in all but name to Yharim.

[cosmic zenith]

So he doesn't perceive it in the same trauma-ridden way

[void spoke]

People become more cognizant of mental health as time goes on

[fading helm]

Back in those days DoG got all the blame

[leaden bridge]

He was like sort of threatened? With something akin to slavery? That wouldn't even really have been slavery? Because the gods wanted him to be in on it?

[wanton pendant]

Why did Chara make DoG make Yharim make Calamitas do that?

[brazen swallow]

he was being forced to be something he didn't want to be

[wanton pendant]

He was going to be a puppet king.

[leaden bridge]

Like yeah the gods were using him but that's not slavery

[fading helm]

It was permafrost....

[hoary cape]

It was me

[brazen swallow]

devourer i remember you're genocides

[wanton pendant]

Why did Chara make Permafrost make DoG make Yharim make Calamitas do that?

[cosmic zenith]

It's not covered well currently (only Yharim mentions it and he doesn't go on much detail), but yeah, I do think those Gods genuinely enslaved him

Yharim kinda falls flat if that's not the case

[fading helm]

No no permafrost make gaster make chara mane yharim make dog make yharon make calamitas do that

[leaden bridge]

gril you write the lore do you Think or is that the Plan

[fading helm]

He always fell mot only flat but like head down

.fer went straight the geno route

[hoary cape]

I made yharim a bad guy. I am sorry it had to be done

[wanton pendant]

Yharim is a massive hypocrite, but he hides by using technicalities.

[cosmic zenith]

You do realize I'm just one of the lorewriters, right
My opinion isn't law

[leaden bridge]

also we mean the freedom thing still kinda falls flat because he doesn't actually care

[brazen swallow]

gaster is behind all of calamity lore

[leaden bridge]

Since killing people is very anti freedom

[long bloom]

true

gaster is the god of dogma

[void spoke]

One day I hope the devs make a single source where all of the lore can be learned, because I swear every time I think I understand the lore I hear someone say "Oh that was actually confirmed to no longer be canon"

[fading helm]

Nah we gonna take your word as gospel. Just like the cei power level list

[leaden bridge]

And like we mean that works as him just being an hypocrite about it wdk

[brazen swallow]

this feels like ancient aliens
it's always gaster

[wanton pendant]

He doesn't enslave, only control. He wants to free people from being forced to follow the gods, so he forbids it and kills those who do.

[long bloom]

half the lore isn't even written yet

[wanton pendant]

Like, it's mainly old lore that's not canon.

Which is from years ago.

[long bloom]

nothing from new lore has been decanonized

or will be

[void spoke]

I have no idea what new lore is!

[cosmic zenith]

I wouldn't really call his mission one of freedom
Deep down it's a lot more like revenge and just wanting the world to be rid of what he perceives to be a taint upon it

[void spoke]

All I know is the lore items which I've been told aren't canon anymore

[long bloom]

what

[brazen swallow]

(subject to change )

[fading helm]

Ok imma log off for today cus its 1am and i got school. Was fun debating why perma highkey doesnt deserve mercy but gtg

[wanton pendant]

How long has it been since you last played?

[void spoke]

Recently

[wanton pendant]

Well then all the lore items are canon.

[void spoke]

(In fact I'm playing on the other monitor)

[long bloom]

almost everything in the game is canon

[void spoke]

Okay so I was misinformed then

[cosmic zenith]

He abhors slavery, yeah, but his Crusade isn't to free worshippers from the evil ahh Gods

[long bloom]

yes

[void spoke]

I did hear that Roar of the Jungle Dragon isn't canon, which is a shame because it's really good

[wanton pendant]

That was a really long time ago. It's canon now.

[long bloom]

the only game lore that's not canon are some outdated bestiary entries and npc dialogue

[wanton pendant]

Stained, Brutal Calamity on the other hand, isn't canon.

[void spoke]

Wait so it was un-canoned then re-canoned??

[cosmic zenith]

It's to kill all Gods and anyone who dared to side with them because they are (in Yharim's eyes) inherently sinful

[wanton pendant]

It wasn't canon at first, later made canon.

[long bloom]

yes

[void spoke]

U have to understand how this can be confusing

[wanton pendant]

That was ages ago.

[long bloom]

stained brutal calamity still isn't canon tho

[wanton pendant]

It's based on the old lore.

[cosmic zenith]

You may have been told some misinformation, or just be outdated
The lore was last rewritten in February 2023, and we've basically made no retcons since

[wanton pendant]

Conflicts with a lot.

[void spoke]

All I know about the lore is random Reddit posts saying "This and that aren't canon"

[long bloom]

oh

[brazen swallow]

reddit

[long bloom]

red nation

[wanton pendant]

Still a better source than Steam Community Forums.

[cosmic zenith]

Yeah, that's a tough source

[brazen swallow]

reddit isn't a great source

[brazen swallow]

the horrors

[void spoke]

So I'm glad I asked here

[long bloom]

there's a pinned document with all the canon lore that's in the game btw

[cosmic zenith]

I hope this makes more sense to you, Ender

[long bloom]

wait is ender still here

[cosmic zenith]

I don't think so....

[wanton pendant]

Maybe they never were...

[long bloom]

says they're still a member

nice

[void spoke]

Oh right, I forgot Draegon's Logs existed

[wanton pendant]

Yes they are canon.

[void spoke]

I've never read them because they're boring

[long bloom]

slightly outdated but still pretty correct

[wanton pendant]

Some of the most up to date and relatively impartial information.

[brazen swallow]

I feel like yharim and darth vader aren't too different
both are blinded by hatred for something but deep inside just want to do something good
plus points for being formerly heros (assuming yharim even started as one)

[wanton pendant]

Tossed into lava...

[brazen swallow]

REAL

[wanton pendant]

Tried to get a kid to join them.

[long bloom]

mechanical exosuit

[void spoke]

I can't wait to toos Yharim into lava

[wanton pendant]

Always wearing their drip.

[brazen swallow]

except calamitas actually joined

this is cool to think about

[wanton pendant]

Yharim designs are either: Darth Vader, Ganondorf, White Ganondorf, or Skinny Guy.

[void spoke]

Making any warrior skinny is a crime

[long bloom]

i do a mix of 1 and 3

[wanton pendant]

White Ganondorf Darth Vader.

[long bloom]

yuh

[wanton pendant]

Which card from Yugi-Oh or whatever it's called is that?

[long bloom]

lmao

[brazen swallow]

I feel like yharim is a step further than vader because he's actually the boss

[long bloom]

yeah vader was still just a pawn

[wanton pendant]

The secret Yharon is the true mastermind theory some people have:

[brazen swallow]

yharon woke up and chose spreading misinformation to highly mentally unstable people

[cosmic zenith]

Basically, Yharim is not a real freedom fighter - at most he's freeing this world from "scum"
He's a broken man lashing out at the world, pursuing a revenge that punishes those who condemned him and brings closure to he who both saved him and proved to be a lifelong friend

[wanton pendant]

He's little better then what he claims he fights.

[brazen swallow]

in the end xeroc will appear in front of yharim and reveal all the lore and yharim will be "no, this can't be" and xeroc will then disappear like gaster

absolute cinema

[long bloom]

true

[void spoke]

Who is Xeroc-

[long bloom]

god of light

[wanton pendant]

Sun God.

[long bloom]

the first god

[brazen swallow]

the first god

yeah

the most powerful one too

[void spoke]

Do they have any relevance in the mod as of now?

[long bloom]

and most powerful character in the lore

yes

[wanton pendant]

They are what caused the dragon hunts.

As they became the first god.

So other people got ideas.

They are a proposed true final superboss.

[void spoke]

I meant like, interacts in some way

[brazen swallow]

he gifts the player his favorite rock as a reward for beating the boss rush

[long bloom]

read the "prelude" and "requiem" lore items for the full* story

[void spoke]

OHHH NAMELESS DEITY

[long bloom]

no

[wanton pendant]

NO!

[long bloom]

wotg isn't canon

[void spoke]

(Joking)

(I'm joking)

[long bloom]

oh thank god

[wanton pendant]

They're the one who presents Boss Rush to you.

[brazen swallow]

nameless deity is xeroc if he was uhhhhh

[void spoke]

Yeee that's what I was assuming

When I ask "In the mod" I don't mean in some one off lore entry, I mean interacts with the player in some way

[wanton pendant]

Then yes.

In Boss Rush.

[long bloom]

~~and by controlling the sun ~~

[void spoke]

Yeee Xeroc being the big boss rush face actually means something to me

[brazen swallow]

he has some dialogue for the boss rush too iirc

[wanton pendant]

Xeroc also is the reason the sun works right. What this means isn't clear.

[wanton pendant]

They speak a lot.

[void spoke]

Yep!

Lots of yapping

[long bloom]

the "eye of xeroc" is a spell sigil iirc

[void spoke]

I don't see any item with Xeroc in the name

[cosmic zenith]

On why I said "I think those Gods genuinely enslaved him", it's less so that the actions of the Gods may not have been that bad, but that Yharim's character really depends on his perception of how the God plot went, and that's a bit more complex given the nature of the plot and the character of said Gods

[wanton pendant]

Xeroc Armour.

[long bloom]

there isn't

[wanton pendant]

God of Dogma didn't have that dog in them. Now they're DoG food.

[void spoke]

I have lore insights, what if Devourer of Gods is closetted transgemder

[long bloom]

xeroc's lore is contained to the lore items called prelude and requiem

if that's what you're looking for

[wanton pendant]

DoG is transphobic and proud.

[void spoke]

FUCKED UP

[brazen swallow]

if yharim was young at the time of this event, yharon's words probably marked yharim even more

[void spoke]

Estrogen could save her

[wanton pendant]

He knows slurs from another dimension.

[wanton pendant]

Is that a boss?

[long bloom]

yes

ccr

[void spoke]

Yee Estrogen is being added in the next update

[brazen swallow]

cryogen lineup final boss

[eager bluff]

(no actually it isnt)
(estrogen was actually one of the first gens to be crossed off the list for potential gens)

[void spoke]

Gens?

Like genders?

[brazen swallow]

pyrogen.....

[void spoke]

OHHH I see

[wanton pendant]

Carcinogen is still on the table.

[eager bluff]

twas too obvious and not enough of a shitpost

[brazen swallow]

the different gens free permafrost, permaflame, permaplague and so on

[wanton pendant]

Permacancer.

[brazen swallow]

real

[void spoke]

Well I understand the lore slightly better than I did

But that's not saying much

[brazen swallow]

basically, everyone in calamity is traumatized

[cosmic zenith]

Suffice to say, he was properly physically controlled and forced to do their bidding, no doubt being subjected to excessive strain and injury
Now visual references are a matter of personal opinion, but I feel like Carmilla's treatment of Hector in Castlevania is an example on the tamer side

[void spoke]

I have figured out that muchm

[long bloom]

e

[brazen swallow]

not so different from real life actually

[wanton pendant]

The show?

[brazen swallow]

we don't have cool magic here so it sucks more tho

[cosmic zenith]

Yes

[void spoke]

If I was in Calamity I'd marry Calamitas and help her live her best life

[brazen swallow]

I read the entire thing the other day
100+ pages of only in-game lore is awesome

[wanton pendant]

Oh God what were they doing to him?

[wanton pendant]

I don't think she'd want that.

[cosmic zenith]

Watch S3

[wanton pendant]

I've seen Castlevania.

[void spoke]

Too bad because this is my HEADCANON

[wanton pendant]

NOT WHAT THAT MEANS!

[long bloom]

THE TERRARIAN IS

[brazen swallow]

calamitas only wants to sit in her cave and occassionally eat a snail or something

[cosmic zenith]

Then how do you not... remember it...?

[wanton pendant]

Which is why I reacted with, and I quote; "Oh God what were they doing to him?"

[void spoke]

This is actually peak romance

[wanton pendant]

Because I know what they did and if it was worse...

[brazen swallow]

absolute cinema

[wanton pendant]

Issac was peak though.

[brazen swallow]

this is like the titanic movie except there's no ships because an ocean is fried and the other polluted

[void spoke]

Why should I be ashamed to live my truth?

[long bloom]

no let them cook

[cosmic zenith]

||Carmilla put Hector on a collar and dragged him in it all the way to Brailla, not to mention bully him, punch him and treat him as a wild animal||

[brazen swallow]

aw hell nah

[void spoke]

I know many people who'd pay for that

[cosmic zenith]

I should probably clarify that Calamitas is aroace
I doubt that'll stop you, but I figured I should mention it

[wanton pendant]

It only has one L.

[void spoke]

Aroace doesn't particularly mean can't be in a relationship! But yeee I do know that wouldn't function in canon, but in headcanon it can

[cosmic zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/gun-shot-pumpkin-revolver-44magnum-gif-9991224

[void spoke]

NYOOO THE PUMPKIN

[brazen swallow]

executed

[eager bluff]

i have actively seen people want to pay for that

[cosmic zenith]

Figured you'd say that

[wanton pendant]

It would also very likely be extremely unhealthy for her, and also still not what headcanon means.

[cosmic zenith]

Let's not discuss that please

[eager bluff]

not the pumpkin gif the initial thing

[brazen swallow]

a hypothetical person that lived what calamitas did just needs friends and a lot of support tbh

[void spoke]

Is headcanon not just something that u like to imagine about an existing character that may not be particularly true?

[void spoke]

TRUE

[wanton pendant]

No. That's fanfiction.

[eager bluff]

a headcanon is more like believing dog sounds like andrew tate

[wanton pendant]

Headcanon implies it's more of an interpretation of the material, but I so often see it used to say blatant contradictions.

Like I don't know 'My headcanon is that Sonic is actually Green!'

[void spoke]

I mean I personally don't believe that an aroace person and being in a relationship are contradictions

[brazen swallow]

the terrarian running around with weapons of mass destruction and time altering objects like a madman doesn't help the calamity story so much
even in base terraria the terrarian is kinda insane lmfao

[wanton pendant]

She doesn't have an interest in any relationship.

So her being in one wouldn't be a headcanon.

[brazen swallow]

calamitas getting yharim ptsd from seeing the terrarian do the boss rush

[brazen swallow]

LMAOO WHAT ON EARTH

[wanton pendant]

Every damn time, I rarely see it used correctly, they always mean fanfiction.

[void spoke]

Well then in my fanfiction!

[wanton pendant]

Yay!

You can give her as many stupid maid outfits or whatever in your fanfiction. Just don't expect me to want to read it if you plan to publish.

[plucky juniper]

@void spoke .

[void spoke]

Yes I saw taht

And responded to it

[plucky juniper]

What happened to shame?

[void spoke]

Unlearn shame!

[long bloom]

true!

[void spoke]

Live ur truth!

[plucky juniper]

Read it again.

[long bloom]

tin

[brazen swallow]

cringe culture is dead but we should still respect the boundaries of what others consider uncomfortable to talk about

[void spoke]

U seem to be very adamant about people needing to be ashamed of having fun and playing with touys

[brazen swallow]

tin broadsword

[void spoke]

Actually, something odd about this mod's lore that I noticed while reading the Draedon communication
There seems to be a lot of agency taken away from the player
Like most of the things the player discovers have already existed for a long time according to Draedon, and the fact that the player did something to cause them to appear in the world is only a coincidence

[plucky juniper]

So, what you're saying is...

[hoary cape]

People really trying to write fan fiction that contradicts Cal being aroace 😭

[crystal pendant]

What a… fun… thing to see when i peek into this server

[hoary cape]

Sure is

[stoic gulch]

What even is lore discussion anymore

[hoary cape]

Cringe and brain rot

[crystal pendant]

Preach

[stoic gulch]

Lore discussion more like LIE discussion

[crystal pendant]

Power scalers on standby, waiting to strike

[stoic gulch]

Power scalers boutta make giant clam goku level trust

[hoary cape]

Giant clam is actually one punch man level

[clever grove]

Yea, i think Mother is the stronger boss, idk. Delirium isn't that hard.

[hoary cape]

Wrong game

[clever grove]

No

[hoary cape]

Yes

[stoic gulch]

[crystal pendant]

🫒

Have an olive

I want olive lore in calamity

That’s what the mod is missing

[glacial rampart]

yeah it sucks very bad

[crystal pendant]

Like a broken vacuum

[plucky juniper]

Tin

[tropic oak]

this is actually funny as hell

going to believe this now

[frosty charm]

headcanon that yharim has very severe eyestrain due to looking out of a blue glowing visor

they constantly squint because of it

[cloud ibex]

I like to imagine that he doesn’t have eyes anymore

Just sockets that plug directly into the helmet

[visual kiln]

meow

chatt

what do we know about vetrasyl

and when did otonilou ascend

[supple storm]

i'd like to know this pretty please!!!

meow

[visual kiln]

meow

also when did chrysadia fall

[supple storm]

this too

[visual kiln]

ask my questions

[cloud ibex]

according to stip, eight centuries

[supple storm]

goombos
what do we know about Vetrasyl, the dragon of storms.
when did Otonilou ascend.
when did chrysadia fall?

[cloud ibex]

so seemingly it fell when ML first attacked

[supple storm]

when is the current date again?

[cloud ibex]

sometime in the 1800s i think

[supple storm]

there is a specific one right .w.

[visual kiln]

1887?

[supple storm]

that'd sound nice

[cloud ibex]

believe going off of draedon's yapping it's sometime around 1887 yeag

[supple storm]

but is it ture

okay

cool

[wanton pendant]

1886 is the literal earliest it could be, 1887 is probably more reasonable.

[supple storm]

so then chrysadia would have fallen around 1000-1100 then?

[cloud ibex]

yeah

[wanton pendant]

The only reason it could be otherwise would be if Draedon forgot how to count.

If you have the date much later you cut down on Calamitas' internship at Yharim inc.

[supple storm]

and what about the other two questions i have here?

🥺

[wanton pendant]

Dragon made sky people islands and is dead.

[real silo]

Chrysadia fell as fovos attacked

They were the first civilization he attacked

fovos as in moon lord

[wanton pendant]

And Otonilou probably became a goddess the same time as most others did.

[supple storm]

anything more specific?

[wanton pendant]

No.

[real silo]

800-600 years ago probably

somewhere there

[wanton pendant]

After Moon Lord attacked.

And before the Crusade.

[supple storm]

so 1000-1200 then?

[wanton pendant]

Good 700 year window.

[real silo]

Given vetrasyl was one of the first dragons to be hit I imagine otonilou was one of the earliest gods to ascend

just my theory

[real silo]

nou

[wanton pendant]

A game theory?

[real silo]

the oldest god is 800 years old

so any other gods would be younger

[warm gull]

ganondorf

[real silo]

canonborf

[wanton pendant]

No that's Yharim.

[warm gull]

hi altraxia

[real silo]

canon gloomborf

haiquiri

[supple storm]

well you said 800-600 years ago .w.

[warm gull]

well I mean what if some people older than xeroc ascended after him they'd technically be older

[visual kiln]

i think silva is older

[supple storm]

and its around 1887 isnt it?

[real silo]

oh wai

I'm stupid nvm yea somewhere around 1000-1200

[supple storm]

okay :3

[cloud ibex]

he was the first to be hit wasn't he

[real silo]

silva smells

yea

[wanton pendant]

Zeratros.

[real silo]

zeratros wouldn't be the first to be attacked

[cloud ibex]

no it was vetrasyl

[supple storm]

also so, Otonilou would have ascended by killing Vetrasyl then?

[wanton pendant]

It's that or very late 1886 if we are very generous with Draedon's phrasing.

[visual kiln]

i think

[real silo]

fovos came from space
chrysadia is the closest to space
chrysadia (and vetrasyl) was hit first

[visual kiln]

basically xeroc ascends

[real silo]

Yes

[visual kiln]

then ppl realize they can ascend and this starts a gold rush for auric souls

[real silo]

Storms > electricity

[visual kiln]

vetrasyl is the first victim of this gold rush

[real silo]

Possibly

[wanton pendant]

And so Otonilou kills sparky because he was most weakened.

Maybe it was mercy kill, maybe Otonilou used to be a jerk.

Given their disregard to thermodynamics...

[real silo]

It's called divine magic ™

just be a god and you can defy physics

[wanton pendant]

Divine Magic is no reason to increase the amount of energy in the Universe!

[real silo]

Doncare

If there's one thing that can fight the heat death of the universe it'd be the gods

And you can't say that when draedon does it and at like 5 times the efficiency

average capitalist blaming a humble goddess instead of the evil industrial minds

[visual kiln]

i wonder if any chrysadian survivors would hate ilmeris bc of what otonilou did

[real silo]

they're probably all dead

[wanton pendant]

Like very dead.

[real silo]

since chrysadia got yoked 800 years ago

[wanton pendant]

Ilmeris is a relatively recent development.

[real silo]

maybe if there were any alive back then they'd hate her

But yea both her and them are dead as hell

[visual kiln]

btw

if u make ur own worldbuilding project heavily based on calamity's world

r u allowed to talk about it here

[long bloom]

sure

[supple storm]

malicious grinning

[visual kiln]

asking for a friend

[long bloom]

i might know who

[supple storm]

(I'm the friend)

[visual kiln]

thats weird u 2 have never interacted

[long bloom]

joke
bc they just said malicious grinning

[visual kiln]

oh ok

i was joking too btw

[long bloom]

[real silo]

jokemon go

[supple storm]

[cloud ibex]

as the regional moderator guy dude i decree yeah sure

[cosmic minnow]

Rp….

Altraxia, where is camarune from again?

[warm gull]

true the rp is basically cal adjacent worldbuilding project atp

lots of things are similarbor the same but there's so much different

[real silo]

Evil volcano land

Population 3 (now 2)

[wanton pendant]

I know you're there. I can sense the British.

[real silo]

I'm not brit I just live in a british colonial

[cosmic minnow]

Many smaller interpretations of new and old lore in there too

[warm gull]

literally nothing old lore at all...

except sarenio's original material

[split mortar]

Hey chat whats happen

[cosmic minnow]

True

[cosmic minnow]

I meant more so some of our interpretations, including how some of our ocs affected certain characters and the story

[wanton pendant]

We were debating whether Permafrost should get the death penalty.

[split mortar]

Unless its like full of not public information i dont see why you couldnt

[wanton pendant]

Made a chart on Team Yharim's motives and justifications. Any thoughts?

[cosmic minnow]

Nuked Italy ?

[wanton pendant]

Ilmeris.

[cosmic minnow]

As a cal glazer and lover but also as an Italian, this conflicts me

Might have to be a hater now

Also realized Sarenio is like, exactly Calamitas without the minor part and with less manipulation

@warm gull would you recon Sarenio was manipulated just as much as Calamitas

?

[wanton pendant]

Who the hell is Sarenio?

(Also, I do think it does show how relatively little development Yharon and DoG have right now with how little I was able to come up for with them.)

[cloud ibex]

I don’t know if Yharim being a former slave or struggling with motivation for anything non-crusade related is ever stated anywhere

[long bloom]

dev statements

[wanton pendant]

So the motivation thing is in Polterghast's lore.

[long bloom]

earlier today stip said yharim was probably a slave

[cosmic minnow]

An oc

[wanton pendant]

Former slave is dev statements, but not yet in mod so it's listed as 'most likely'.

[wanton pendant]

'The further my war dragged on, the further I sank into negligence. This specter is the crux of my failure.
I hid behind my excuses, calling them duties. Fighting the gods. Training. Ruling.
I had the time and resources to devote. I was simply paralyzed by apathy.'

[cloud ibex]

right

[wheat walrus]

You're not even here gng

[cosmic minnow]

I used to text more here yea

been a while

[wheat walrus]

Anyways the entire Italy thing came from melon spreading my year old calc and thinking I assumed the size of Italy

[wheat walrus]

Not here

Here italy

[cosmic minnow]

Yea

[wanton pendant]

Mama mia.

[long bloom]

cei directly stated ilmeris was roughly the size of italy

[cloud ibex]

hm.

that's interesting

[wanton pendant]

And by the sounds of it, it was bad.

[wanton pendant]

Thus, Calamitas nuked Italy.

Or maybe Seacily.

[cosmic minnow]

most of my family is Italian

I’ve been to Sicily once

[wheat walrus]

It was mad actually

[cosmic minnow]

Very hot

Very pretty place tho

[long bloom]

oop

[cloud ibex]

it definitely helps explain why he got so incredibly mad over pbg

[wheat walrus]

You...

[wanton pendant]

But the thing is he was physically enslaved, so they never had power over his mind. So he has no issues with psychologically enslaving people as it were.

He doesn't see it as the same.

[cosmic minnow]

If yharim was a slave it would explain his hate

[wanton pendant]

That's what the devs were saying.

[cloud ibex]

it's one thing if you're just like "slavery is Bad i think" cause that's most people, but if he's actually experienced it himself it kinda makes sense how viscerally irrational it was of him to break her out

[wheat walrus]

Ya

[wanton pendant]

He also doesn't even factor in that PBG is absolutely either in pain or utterly mindless. Freeing her made things worse.

He should have put her out of her misery.

[cloud ibex]

he should've, but the memory of his own enslavement clearly still sits so fresh in his mind the thought of anything else being treated similarly sets him off instantly

[wanton pendant]

Yeah, of course. A rational person would have put PBG down. Yharim is anything but rational.

Since this exchange is coming off of his child soldier running away a bit ago.

[cosmic minnow]

Yharim is a major selfish prick

[wanton pendant]

But he thinks he's selfless.

[cosmic minnow]

delusional

[wanton pendant]

Yeah.

[cloud ibex]

i think it's also worth mentioning that not only was yharon's entire species wiped out, his literal life's purpose was to make sure his species would live on forever

[wanton pendant]

That's fair.

[cloud ibex]

not only are all of his kin gone, he basically failed his duty for reasons entirely out of his control

[wanton pendant]

Alright, I added that to the chart, might want a few more suggestions before posting an updated version though.

So I don't post like, ten slightly altered versions.

[long bloom]

can you un-bitcrush permafrost

[wanton pendant]

His image is massive.

[long bloom]

and perhaps get dog's face in the frame

[wanton pendant]

So when I shrunk it down, it looked like that.

[long bloom]

ah

[wanton pendant]

Calamitas' face is a fraction the size.

And DoG is funnier that way.

That's why I did it like that.

[long bloom]

understandable

[wanton pendant]

For reference, this is the size difference between Permafrost's concept art and Calamitas'.

[long bloom]

lmfao

[wanton pendant]

Guess which one is newer.

[cosmic minnow]

Favoritism at its finest

[split mortar]

I got the italy thing from the mad convo you replied to

[long bloom]

yes we've established this

[cloud ibex]

good to see we're in agreement here

[wanton pendant]

Read my chart.

So I can take your SOUL!

[split mortar]

I was correcting omni since i didnt assume their calc was of italy size

[wanton pendant]

Just like the British to bust in and 'correct' the natives.

[split mortar]

Dont think this chat is italian in origin?

[wanton pendant]

What?

[wheat walrus]

Melon you're late

[wheat walrus]

True

[split mortar]

[wheat walrus]

The age of melon gun and lea channel is over. The age of stone phone has begun.

[split mortar]

Wtfrick

[fading helm]

Anyone know if there is a calendar or something of the like that has dates of the calamity world? I

[long bloom]

not in one place no

but i'm trying to compile a timeline

[hushed geyser]

Icl he looks like electro wizard from clash

[mighty zenith]

yeah because
wizard

thats how wizards tend to look

actually looking at electro wizard

no they dont

theres barely any similarities

[hushed geyser]

Mightve thought of the wrong guy

[mighty zenith]

ice wizard maybe

[hushed geyser]

I dont play clash

[wanton pendant]

Most dates are speculative and can vary by a little, Draedon gives a few to the day, and also we do know that the year he left was 1875.

Like, the current year is probably 1887. Less likely to be later, however.

After checking some dates, 1886 is unlikely to be the current year, unless Draedon is very loose with saying 'over six hundred sixty years'.

Like, it being 660 years and one month level of loose.

The really weird thing is that if we knew Calamtias' birthday we'd probably be in a much better position to work things out.

[long bloom]

the current timeframe for when the game starts is 1887-1897

[wanton pendant]

I don't think later years work because it makes Calamitas' internship make no sense.

She left on or before 1875.

So I'd say the most likely year is 1887.

[long bloom]

me too

[wanton pendant]

Since slightly higher and it conflicts with other statements.

[long bloom]

the game starting after 1887 makes the timeline an absolute fuckin headache with calamitas, dog and yharim

[wanton pendant]

Much more then that and suddenly Yharim employed a pre-teen, which also conflicts with a lot.

Because she's 28 and left 12 years ago in 1887.

If it's 1897, then she's 28 and left 22 years ago.

[long bloom]

lo

[wanton pendant]

So he recruited like, a 2-3 year old.

So, 1890s are well off the table.

I think there is some kind of birthday timing shenanigans.

[long bloom]

prob

~~if that's even established ~~

[wanton pendant]

Since they were saying she was there longer then 13-16 but that's hard to explain with her having left at most 12 years ago.

So I think a. she destroyed Ilmeris relatively shortly after her 17th birthday and b. the current date in-game is before her birthday.

So if we knew her birthday, we'd probably be able to get a good ball park date for some other things.

I mean, it's not impossible that she blew up Ilmeris, turned 17, snowgraved Permafrost.

But that's a very slim window I think.

[long bloom]

i think the answer is the writers didn't consider it as much as we do

since it's (relatively) unimportant

[wanton pendant]

One of them is gonna come in here and say 'we have every character's birthday and we're not telling you.'

[long bloom]

[wanton pendant]

DoG's birthday would actually answer a decent amount. Or at least imply a bit.

I did in fact check in case she had a birthday. The answer was not telling you.

[long bloom]

man

[wanton pendant]

Also if I'm right about the birthday thing then Calamitas was probably born in the year 1858, likely in the second half of the year.

[long bloom]

my calc was 1859

[wanton pendant]

I did 1887-29 because if she's 28 but it hasn't been her birthday yet, that's what you would need to do.

[long bloom]

true

[wanton pendant]

I think you were assuming her birthday already happened.

Which I think is unlikely given current data.

[icy veldt]

Do we get to give her a birthday party after we defeat her?

[long bloom]

in a perfect world

[wanton pendant]

We should. We don't know how long till then though.

So, let's say Draedon leaving is very late 1875, and Calamitas and Permafrost left a couple months prior, I think it would work out.

This also means the game's timeframe is like 6 months.

Give or take.

Which feels weird since I'd have gone for it being the course of a year, but it makes more sense to be a few months.

This is what Yharim was doing with Calamitas in the current year is 1897 timeline.

[gaunt sluice]

What goin on

[split mortar]

Nothing rn

[hoary cape]

My neck is dying irl

That's what's going on

[split mortar]

Guillotine would sort that

[cosmic zenith]

You guys are definitely obsessed but we have discussed this to some extent

[hoary cape]

I kinda prefer living

I must have slept funny because I can't move my neck that much and keeping it straight up/ tilted to the right is uncomfortable.

[light linden]

Hi Stip

[cosmic zenith]

Hi!

[light linden]

Got a moment for a question?

[cosmic zenith]

Sure

[light linden]

First off, have you played Hotog?

Because that is related to my question

[cosmic zenith]

I haven't played it, but I have seen its content

[leaden bridge]

Hotog mentioned we're forced to talk about how calamity through hotog can be interpreted to be about capitalism with goozma being the standing for communism, in this essay i will

[light linden]

That'll work

What type of god do you think Goozma's auric soul would create?

[cosmic zenith]

God of Communism

Hmm

[leaden bridge]

chromatic

So like

It'd turn into something color related

god of led lights

[cloud ibex]

deity of pride

[light linden]

I've always imagined it'd create a god of radiation or ultraviolet light

[cosmic zenith]

In my personal interpretation (I am not a HotOG dev), it'd be something like God of Composition, or God of Evolution, or God of the Rainbow

[long bloom]

primordial light is uv light

[wanton pendant]

I'm not obsessed! I swear!

[cosmic zenith]

I personally find the fact that the coalescence of slimes forged an Auric soul significantly more interesting and thematic to Goozma than just "color go brrr"

[wanton pendant]

I know you're hiding the birthdays!

[light linden]

Also bit off topic but I'm still hoping I get to ask HPU about her work on Catalyst's music

[leaden bridge]

This is the commun

[light linden]

Personally I've always interpreted it as

The world soul splitting left residual energy everywhere but not enough to be of any consequence

[icy veldt]

Could it be how the world regenerates its soul? The Auric souls were fragments of the World Soul, and they still existed in some form as divine souls, but after Yharim spilled out their essences, maybe they were no longer "usable" (so to speak) as World Soul fragments, so the world has to regenerate the missing parts of its soul somehow?

[long bloom]

the auric soul completely ceases to exist when absorbed

[light linden]

But slimes being slimes absorbed that energy over centuries and when they were all forced together into Goozma there was enough energy to form a soul

[long bloom]

it merges with the person's original soul and makes an entirely new one

[icy veldt]

It's no longer recoverable as an Auric Soul, but what I'm saying is that the ritual transforms it into something else. It doesn't completely delete it from existence

[wanton pendant]

If you stuck the godly essence into the large hadron collider...

[long bloom]

ig

[icy veldt]

Like the difference between changing the contents of a file, and deleting it

Hence why I said "in some form"

[wanton pendant]

The auric souls was changed into something else, the power didn't disappear.

By process of combining.

[cosmic zenith]

Yeah, it obviously doesn't delete the soul

[cosmic zenith]

^

[wanton pendant]

If you make a cake with eggs, it still contains eggs, but they're irrecoverable.

[icy veldt]

So maybe Yharim killing all those gods and feeding their essences to the DoG, made the world's natural soul-regeneration process think "these bits of the World Soul are now gone", so it's now trying to regenerate those missing parts of its soul

[wanton pendant]

Better question, do Yharon's souls shavings regrow?

[icy veldt]

I imagine it's like picking your nose: you might run out of boogers now, but later you'll have more boogers

Infinite food glitch

[wanton pendant]

No.

[cloud ibex]

very specific choice of metaphor

[warm gull]

horrible collection of words

[wanton pendant]

In conclusion; Calamitas' birthday is probably between July and September.

[frosty charm]

My theory on ascension is that to have a perfect ascension, the dragon has to willingly give up their soul
It's kind of fishy that Xeroc just, knew the ritual? An incredibly complicated and intricate ritual, that he just made up on the spot? But if Zeratos, who was already on deaths door told Xeroc, giving his soul almost like an heir, therefore perfectly linking their souls lead to a "perfect" ascension?

[wanton pendant]

It also may require the Terminus, both are the main theories.

Being consent and the Terminus are likely involved somewhere.

[fading helm]

I tought the ritual was known but tabuu or something

Because how else would people hunt dragons without knowing the ritual

[wanton pendant]

The ritual wasn't taboo, but only the gods and Yharim know it.

[fading helm]

I reckon we need more info on how ascensions themselves work tho. Like what made providence go to god of ash instead of fire

[wanton pendant]

Xeroc made the ritual up.

[fading helm]

Im talking draconic era

[wanton pendant]

It's because they didn't do it perfectly.

[fading helm]

I dont think he would spread it tho

[wanton pendant]

So the auric souls mixes with their soul and becomes a new thing.

So Flame became Ash.

Gluttony became Slime.

Storms became Electricity.

If done perfectly, you retain the same power as the auric soul.

[fading helm]

Oh true forgot that was stated

[wanton pendant]

So Life remained Life and Primordial Light remained Primordial Light.

[fading helm]

Do we know 100% xeroc made the ritual tho?

[wanton pendant]

I believe so.

Who else?

Nobody had ever tried it before.

[fading helm]

Yeah but the thing would be how people came to know of it then

I doubt xeroc would just leak

[wanton pendant]

Xeroc figured it out and others managed to recreate their process.

If Xeroc could figure it out on the spot it can't be impossible to recreate.

But almost everyone else did it wrong.

Sans Silva.

And if there is some secret other perfect ascension (unlikely) we don't know about them.

[fading helm]

https://tenor.com/view/say-that-again-gif-968943876633031890

Oh forgot

Gifs no longer a thing

[cloud ibex]

ascension being "xeroc's breakthrough" definitely implies to me that they came up with it

[wanton pendant]

If becoming a god is something that could be figured out first try by a monk, I'd assume there was at least someone else who figured it out and told everyone else.

[fading helm]

I dont think xeroc was just a normal run of the mill monk no?

[wanton pendant]

We don't know.

[fading helm]

Like I think one of the lines in boss rush disprove that

[long bloom]

def not

their mask is auric

[wanton pendant]

Just that they were a monk. Friends with Yharon.

[fading helm]

Could have sworn that he stated he was like almost as strong as yharim or smth

Ill check rq

[split mortar]

A dev said it
While not completely guaranteed canon something like that would be odd to say if not almost certainly the case

[wanton pendant]

And again, when else could it be invented?

[split mortar]

The guy was the monk of the dragon king that aint normal

[cloud ibex]

i doubt it was figured out "first try", i'm guessing they had been developing it before ML's attack and only tried it once Zeratros was about to die

[fading helm]

Oh nah it defo got invented by xeroc i just didnt see that dev message

[plucky juniper]

Okay, from what I recall, the Terminus is extremely relevant to this ritual. Without it, the domain changes.

[wanton pendant]

Yeah but they never had any time to experiment.

[fading helm]

Wouldnt it make more sense to experiment with it after moon lord's attack? Considering that before dragons were pretty much inmortal

[wanton pendant]

I believe the Terminus is implied but not clearly made certain, same with requiring consent, there is some level of implication.

Immortal thanks to Yharon.

[plucky juniper]

Which is probably why when Silva became a god and apparently proceeded to become Xeroc's biggest opp, the latter decided to throw away the Terminus

[fading helm]

Yeah and the fact that they were super duper powerful

[split mortar]

The only two gods with association with the terminus are also the only two gods who perfect ascended there def is a onnectipn

[long bloom]

wait when was it said they had beef

[plucky juniper]

(this is a guess please correct me if im gravely incorrect in this assessment)

[long bloom]

ah

you made it up

[split mortar]

Jared (blessed by silva) has beef with xeroc

[wanton pendant]

That's a nice argument, Senator, why don't you back it up with a source?

[long bloom]

hm

[split mortar]

Not out of the pucture to think its the case

[plucky juniper]

no im pretty sure i heard about the beef

[wanton pendant]

Did it say 'Moo'?

[young socket]

theyre a divorced couple

[wanton pendant]

Divorce theory strikes again!

[robust osprey]

I'm afraid I have to agree with tsuki with this one

[split mortar]

Both images outdated…

[wanton pendant]

Concept art's old!

[robust osprey]

tbf he has beef with anything that manipulates primordial light

xeroc included

[cloud ibex]

this but with nd instead of the terminus

[fading helm]

Btw heard signus stopped being DoG related pretty much no?

[young socket]

i think he only does that cuz he assumes only xeroc can

[split mortar]

Yeah

[wanton pendant]

They're from the same place. That's it.

[young socket]

ever since the rewrite, yes

[split mortar]

They come from same dimension and thats aboutnit

[robust osprey]

thats also a possibility

[fading helm]

How exactly do we encounter him then, and fight him at that

[limpid saddle]

Do we have a new Silva design or is this 'ehh i mean its not really in line but we havent gotten anyone to draw a new one yet' deal

[wanton pendant]

We avenge the gays.

[split mortar]

We do
Post ascension silva

Mango showed it a few days ago

[robust osprey]

the silly

[fading helm]

Wasnt he like a dealer dude instead of an attack ok sight dude

[tropic oak]

hi

[limpid saddle]

Well they're tangentially connected by both being from the Distortion

[wanton pendant]

Not implemented yet, though, will be a while quest line.

[fading helm]

Oh

Hopefully he gets some dialogue

[limpid saddle]

...can we see it?

[tropic oak]

it was posted publicly like a couple weeks ago

[split mortar]

I didnt save it brb

[long bloom]

i did but my gallery app is a bitch

[limpid saddle]

i wouldnt even know where to search

[long bloom]

calart

[limpid saddle]

or what to search

[split mortar]

^

[split mortar]

Snail

[long bloom]

lo

[tropic oak]

who r u calling Snail

Snail boy

[limpid saddle]

leaning alot more into tree this time

[fading helm]

Is that plant a part of her body or just like a mobile seat of sorts

[tropic oak]

any suggestive comments will result in public shaming

[long bloom]

chair

[split mortar]

^

[hoary cape]

Does the chair move

[split mortar]

Who knows

[hoary cape]

Those roots look like legs

[tropic oak]

yes it does

it carries her around

[long bloom]

she looks
nice to cuddle
:)

[hoary cape]

You should know smh

[fading helm]

Also i assume that last pic is like her heart no?

[split mortar]

Abyss state

[hoary cape]

That's her in the abyss

[split mortar]

I think

[fading helm]

Ohh

[long bloom]

abyss revive pod

[limpid saddle]

Well it says a 'revive pod' of sorts

[wanton pendant]

We gotta assemble her like she's Dracula.

[split mortar]

Abyss cocoon

[fading helm]

Damn she got that patient zero treatment

[limpid saddle]

kinda lame we dont get to see a monolothic corpse in the background but it is what it is

[long bloom]

ture

[long bloom]

giant plant heart has more aura