lore-discussion

[dusk laurel]

yharim gachapon

[pliant ruin]

my mark on history

[frosty charm]

Godseeker Squad COMPLETED! How good is Gold Hitler?!

So wait Calamitas still works under Yharim right
Until you beat them then she just moves in unannounced

[cloud ibex]

no she left

[frosty charm]

Oh so why does she fight you then

[pliant ruin]

no shes left him like 10 yrs ago

[cloud ibex]

she's doing freelance work when you fight her basically

[pliant ruin]

she fights you because she thinks youre heading down the same path as yharim and wants to make sure genociding asshole 2 dosent happen again

[frosty charm]

Ah I see

[pliant ruin]

during her fight she's basically acting on impulse due to her fear

[cloud ibex]

she has a panic attack thinking you're becoming yharim 2 and then goes "i must apologize i was not familiar with your game" when she realizes you're chill

[pliant ruin]

as the fight progresses she calms down and decides to give you a chance

[frosty charm]

Good thing she didn't see the 20 bunny banners in a barrel

[cloud ibex]

even if she did she'd at most be like "this mf kinda weird"

there is no way in hell you could ever realistically come even close to matching the amount of bodies yharim is standing on

[frosty charm]

So what she like shifts from "kill this dude" to "let's see if they could hold their own against gold Hitler"?

[frosty charm]

Just like recapping the civilizations he's destroyed what are they? All I really remember are jungle temple sunken sea one and abyss I think?

[pliant ruin]

he didn't destroy the jungle temple

abyss also has never had a civilziatrion

[frosty charm]

I mean the ravager incident

[frosty charm]

Oops

[pliant ruin]

thats old lore

[cloud ibex]

roughly half the planet's population

[pliant ruin]

ravager has nothing to do with the jungle temple currently

[frosty charm]

I should probably read the lore doc again

So wait where does ravager/sacrifice god come from then

[cloud ibex]

not directly but he's indirectly responsible for an incredibly vast amount of death

[cloud ibex]

we don't really know where exactly but presumably agnus and his gang lived somewhere in the Heartlands

[frosty charm]

I feel like you could at least attribute 9% to draedon and honestly 9% is the new 10% and while you're at it just bump it up to 15 for good measure

[cloud ibex]

would be kinda odd if he posthumously moved from another continent to this one

[frosty charm]

Damn I'm REALLY out of the loop wtf are the heartlands

[cloud ibex]

ok but who hired draedon

[frosty charm]

That's not important..

[cloud ibex]

the Heartlands is a common nickname for the continent we play on

[frosty charm]

Oh ok

I just call it terraria because I'm not too creative

💀

Better name though

[ivory vigil]

Draedon just showed up once and no one could get him to leave

[cloud ibex]

in-universe it's called whatever your world name is, Terraria is the name of the planet

but as a general name we usually call the continent the Heartlands

[frosty charm]

Ah
So what's the ravagers new lore I was reading the lore doc (the one that covers the lore items) but it seems out of date

[cloud ibex]

he used to be Agnus Immolatus, the God of Sacrifices

[frosty charm]

Since I want one of the character's stories to tie into the ravager (something something they were a survivor of the massacre and want to make sure it doesn't happen to anyone else even though they're too late)

[cloud ibex]

his whole deal was that he'd quite literally sacrifice parts of himself for the sake of his followers, and they would in return offer their blood to him

he could still feel pain but he couldn't die unless he wished it so himself, so when Yharim showed up he threatened his worshippers until Agnus allowed himself to die so his followers would live

but his followers were so devoted that after Agnus died, they offered their bodies to bring him back in the form of Ravager, now the God of Blood

[frosty charm]

And didn't they go kinda crazy from that

And kill who was left

[cloud ibex]

he is kinda going monkey mode now yes

the guy

[frosty charm]

Message duped kill discord mobile

[pliant ruin]

Agnus was a very nice guy who his people loved and who gave it his all for their sake, Yharim kills him through manipulation, he gets revived by as a necromantic brute with barely any intelligence left, Yharim points at it and go "SEE what those FILTHY GOD WORSHIPPERS DID see how EVIL gods are" even though its literally his fault

[frosty charm]

Alright so would it make enough sense for like, an old worshipper to have fleed and eventually made their own resistance
I want every character (but one) to have a direct reason to fight against yharim

[frosty charm]

Slash made a family that survived depending on the time period

[pliant ruin]

seems reasonable

[frosty charm]

Since yeah he seems like a nice guy even if he did kill a dragon potentially

Cool

The ideas I have are

• Leader guy is the one I just mentioned
• Guy number two was an idol of sorts made after the destruction of azafure, and they want to avenge it
• Guy number three was pulled/came from another timeline where the party fails and they're the only survivor so they want to avenge the party

I think those are reasonable enough

The big theme of the story is that protag 4 (the main one) doesn't really know why they're fighting and is searching for their purpose throughout the story since they were kinda forced into the position

Also sorry for coming here every night and sorta derailing lore discussion but I wanna make sure it's accurate to the source

Are there still dragon offshoots going around since I want the protag 4 to be very loosely related to the dragons (so they have a reason to consider and reject the crusades)

[cloud ibex]

dw this is at least lore adjacent

better than the usual rot that goes on in here

[frosty charm]

Rot... Hrmm...

[ivory vigil]

Would Draedon play factorio?

[frosty charm]

Probably

Oh yeah since I'm at the point in the story is there new cal lore on the cultist and moon lord

I do remember the moon lord (in their prime) fighting the dragons

That's it

[ivory vigil]

Moon lord used to be an extremely powerful creature that the dragons fought and damaged and sealed on the moon

The dragon king was dying afterwards and at that point Xeroc absorbed his soul and became the first god

[cloud ibex]

yes

that's what he's got on his monitor while we fight the exos

he's megabasing in space age

[frosty charm]

He doesn't actually care about the fight he's just stalling

You can't see it but he's actually wearing his "I paused my game to be here" shirt in the hologram messages

[frosty charm]

So yeah by the time you fight him he's basically starving and rotting right

A shell of his former self

[ivory vigil]

Okay so

Draedon plays Factorio
Yharim plays any souls game or souls like
Calamitas plays Stardew Valley
Permafrost seems like he plays Frostpunk, This War of Mine or a Project Moon game

[frosty charm]

Moon lord Inman

I mean

[ivory vigil]

Yeah

He used to be named Fovos

[frosty charm]

I see

No change to the cultist's I'd assume

[ivory vigil]

That I do not know

[frosty charm]

Alright

I'd assume fovos/ml is quite a notorious figure then

[cloud ibex]

prime ml is like

the second most powerful entity in history

he's a shell of himself by the time you fight him but don't let that trick you into thinking he's weak

[frosty charm]

Yeah but I moreso meant like is it reasonable for the protags to know who/what fovos is or have they been long since forgotten

[cloud ibex]

well

it seemed to me like yharim had no idea about what exactly started the downfall of the dragons until yharon told him

so maybe it's been so long it's not really common knowledge anymore

[frosty charm]

I see

Alr alr

[cloud ibex]

i'd imagine maybe like

[frosty charm]

?

[ivory vigil]

The only thing that annoys me about the new lore (this is a nitpick) is outside of distortion entities and Moon Lord most opposing entities are basically "Humanoid creatures fucked around and now you are fighting this"

[cloud ibex]

the dryad or permafrost could know because they're really old and/or have had the opportunity to study the dragons' history

[frosty charm]

Maybe the partially dragon one gets some vibe from them that makes them attack since the cultists are harmless at face value

Y'know they're just some dudes worshipping a floating circle live and let live peace n stuff

[pliant ruin]

idk if id call yharon humanoid

or providence

ig draedon kinda

[pliant ruin]

the cultists are kinda fucked actually

[frosty charm]

Oh?

[pliant ruin]

sure they're sealing ML in the moon which is a good thing and all yeah

but also

[cloud ibex]

i'd wager a guess the only reason draedon looks kinda humanoid in most depictions is to make communication with humans easier

[frosty charm]

I thought they were tryna let him out

[pliant ruin]

they where allies with yharim and basically the wardens of his super evil hell prison he put prisoners to rot in and tortured then and shit

[pliant ruin]

nah they worship dragons and seal ml in the moon

[cloud ibex]

i'd imagine if you could see his central database or factories or whatever his bodies would probably be much less humanoid

[frosty charm]

Ohh the dragon cult

I thought that was another cult

[pliant ruin]

also yeah i agree

[frosty charm]

Do you think they'd be racist towards non-pure dragons

[pliant ruin]

its probably a mix of wanting to make communication with humans easier + vanity

[frosty charm]

Yea

[pliant ruin]

Like he could just make his scout body a Guy but hes gotta be a bit extra and make it look Cool

[frosty charm]

Doesn't he just not have a body atp

[cloud ibex]

yeah no he definitely does care about how his creations look

[frosty charm]

Or his actual body is like modok or smth

[cloud ibex]

his designs are absolutely not made solely with function in mind

why else would he make ares a skeleton samurai thing

[frosty charm]

I'm telling you Yharim, the exo mechs NEED the RGB light strips and fans

[cloud ibex]

it serves 0 practical purpose it's just there for aura

[pliant ruin]

I think draedon taking pride in his creation's appearance actually makes alot of sense even if it might seem a bit weird initially because like

[frosty charm]

I mean he's does seem like the artsy type it's just that his art is horriric

[pliant ruin]

draedon is all about knowledge and learning

perfecting art is by all means

a form of htat

[frosty charm]

Byeah uhh would it make sense for one of the characters to be a dragon offshoot because I'm on the fence
Sorry this is like the fifth time but I don't wanna have a Mary Sue 😭

[pliant ruin]

most dragon offshoots are just animals

[cloud ibex]

yeag

[frosty charm]

I see

[pliant ruin]

theres a few exceptions like old duke but thats because old duke is so old hes like as close to an true auric dragon as it can get, if he was born a few years earlier hed be auric

why did i say sapient

am i stupid

[cloud ibex]

i guess i can imagine one of them being a sapient offshoot but i can't really see there being a humanoid offshoot

[frosty charm]

Demon/wolf/vampire/auric/don't touch my tail/bully

[pliant ruin]

i can see a species of sapient offshoot evolving yea

like just naturally in the same way humans evolved

[frosty charm]

Cause I want to give them a reason to kinda be "made for" Yharims crusade beyond being strong

Y'know "avenge your kind"

[pliant ruin]

i mean i can see dragonfollies being pretty smart, not sapient but like, monkeys i guess

i dunno if most offshoots would really care about avenging their kind

itd be like if humans wanted to avenge the extinction of neanderthals years ago

unless it was like one of the really old close-to-auric ones like PW or old duke

[ivory vigil]

Yharon helps Yharim, a humanoid

Providence is a god, ergo, used to be a humanoid that absorbed a auric soul

[pliant ruin]

I mean yeah i guess

Don't really see the problem with that though

[frosty charm]

Well yeah they don't end up going that route but I could see Yharim using it as a reason to continue their crusades

Since he seems pretty firm on wanting you to continue his crusade right
That's what I've heard

[pliant ruin]

yeah

hes trying to manipulate you into being his sucessor

[frosty charm]

Like I said big point is that they haven't been fighting for themself, only what other people want from them so having multiple people kinda tug of war them could be a neat route

I don't want them to actually end up that way, maybe an alternate reality where they cycle continues could he cool but the idea I have for the main story is that the era kinda ends

Aerie collapses on the heartlands due to noxus eating most of it and most of the heartlands are destroyed as a result, everything that once was is gone and I think that's a cool way to go but idk

Speaking of noxus would it be a cool route to have him be kinda like necrozma

Feeds on light and is pretty hungry, wants to consume the aeries light because zeratos's grave is there so that's probably extra tasty

[frosty charm]

Also like, how does he do this is it just a wip or does he blast messages in your mind telling you how radical his crusades are

[ivory vigil]

Providence annoyed me so I accept. Yharim take me as your successor grhaaaaaaaa

[pliant ruin]

In the future there's plans for the "lore items" to be redesigned nad reworked as instead a single item you'll be able to find that's basically a magicky stone charm thing that yharim will talk to you with

[frosty charm]

I see

And do we know it's Yharim or is it a suspiciously hitlery old man on the end

[pliant ruin]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

If you want your character to know they can

I figured it'd be hard to not know it's Yharim tho given hes an extremely well known figure worldwide

[frosty charm]

Alright
I might make it a thing that they do care a lot about their history (so they could still be vaguely tied to the dragons) so they have a conflict of interest

Kinda going with the "chasing the past is bad" thing but instead of lingering they move on

[ivory vigil]

🗣️ Leave the demon to his demons

[cosmic minnow]

That sounds fun

Also a little weird tho

[pliant ruin]

its definitely better than yharim brain blasting you with dialogue lmao

[split mortar]

Yharim brainblasts you with an unskippable cutscene

[full comet]

"Oh gee, thanks for the lore. Time to shove it in my magic storage"

[deft comet]

Ill read it later

[long bloom]

< lying

[deft comet]

Yharim fuming after I insta deposit his 40th lore item

[random mulch]

yharim's getting left on read

[devout stratus]

i always trash the lore

i dont want yharim yapping

[split mortar]

The yhap

[devout stratus]

i prefer my goat draedon

[split mortar]

Infinitely more reliable

[devout stratus]

always get one of the holograms into my base

the ones where he's doing an "erm ackshtually" pose

[long bloom]

real

[devout stratus]

sure he plagued the jungle or smth but who doesnt like a bit of ecosystem destruction

[wanton pendant]

Yharim was racist.
Yharon instigated a war.
Permafrost is old.
Calamitas is a terrorist.
At the end of the day, I only care about the loot tables.

[magic epoch]

I love how Permafrost's sin is just being old lmao

[split mortar]

Permafrost vs gerson
Old vs Old

[young socket]

IM OLD!

[long bloom]

I'M COLD!

[devout stratus]

hope we can join yharim or draedon in the future

or become yharim 2

what would be the lore implication of yharon attacking us and slowly killing himself with his attacks (weaponless fight) after we take down the lunatic cultist and the dragonfolly before the moonlord even returns

[split mortar]

We killing yharim when he added

And we help draedon a lot already

[devout stratus]

nah bro i share his vision

i'm either joining him or replacing him

[split mortar]

Yharim would still like

Suicide probably

Idk

He dying

[devout stratus]

im the new tyrant them

then i commit a plantera genocide

or smth

we dont need her

[split mortar]

theres only one 💔

[icy veldt]

Same. I'm gonna entomb Yharim in a mausoleum and have him posthumously deified, forcing everyone to worship him as God-King

[mighty zenith]

warhammer vibes

[wanton pendant]

The best part of War Hammer Forty Thousand was when God Emperor Man said 'It's War Hammering time' and he war hammered all over the place.

[devout stratus]

regular flower genocide then

i'll order my hell armored bones to do my bidding

[brazen swallow]

oh so a summoner playthrough I see

[untold oracle]

I’M MOLD!

[hoary berry]

[wheat walrus]

get these ones back to containment mods

[split mortar]

What ones

[wheat walrus]

the 2 molded individuals

blind gun

[split mortar]

[wheat walrus]

they're spreading the mold around unmolded areas, such as this place, get them back to containment melon

well, "unmolded"

more like moderate-density mold areas

[split mortar]

Unmolded compared to whence they came

[wheat walrus]

truly

has to stay like this

[tropic oak]

Mold

[frosty charm]

Is Yharim haunted by or ashamed of his past beyond Calamitas or is he proud of himself

[split mortar]

If he could do the crusade again he would do it better
He doesnt regret the genocides

He regrets the wrong things (like losing allies or accepting dog)
not the division of people dedicated to burning civilians

[frosty charm]

So yeah he's generally unremorseful

[strong notch]

Honestly why do we as players even want to kill him? What do we gain from that?

[split mortar]

You decide

[strong notch]

Except when we want to fight but spare him at the end (nah you will kill him)

[icy veldt]

If you spare him, he'll just keep trying to fight you. The battle ends with his death

[split mortar]

Yharim would like
Still rather fight to the death im pretty sure

[strong notch]

What if we like get rid of his limbs and make him permanently paralyzed

[split mortar]

Then he is like
Super fucking dead???

Removing someones limbs tend to kill them of bloodloss

[strong notch]

just getting rid of limbs but keeping him alive. like actual limb amputation

[icy veldt]

And stick him inside a giant golden life-support throne, and then force everyone to worship him as God-King? Good idea!

[split mortar]

How would they code that into terraria

We cut to surgery game in the middle of your sandbox game

[strong notch]

Good idea for mod

Surgery mod

[icy veldt]

Just have the Nurse do it

[strong notch]

Or rather something like finish move where you either stab enemy heart and kill them or just cut their limbs and render them unable to fight back but alive

[split mortar]

Cutting peoples limbs off tend to lead to bloodloss

[strong notch]

People in terraria are certainly not normal

[icy veldt]

Remove Yharim's brain and wire it into Divine Theocracy Simulator

[strong notch]

If you patch the wound quickly they should live

[split mortar]

Ok but theres a difference between
More resiliant
And
Survives an untreated cut limb without dying to bloodloss

[strong notch]

Turn him into exo mech

[icy veldt]

Exo Roomba

[strong notch]

Roombarim

[split mortar]

And yharim is not inhuman enough to do the no limb part

[strong notch]

or paralyzing him mid battle and then getting rid of limbs in less bloody way

[split mortar]

Yes the guys attunement with yharon helps him (like being in prime for longer and allowed auric) but nowhere do we know tanking limb loss and surviving as one of them

[mighty zenith]

ok uhh good luck doing that to him

[split mortar]

If only paralysing yharim was easy

[mighty zenith]

i feel like if he were to lose but you refused to kill him right there, he'd kill himself

you'd have to make him unconscious, which, again, good luck doing that

[strong notch]

Can he technically suffocate?

or not

[split mortar]

What material can you cover him in

That wont

Explode

[icy veldt]

Chloroform?

[split mortar]

He is covered in armour that explodes you

[strong notch]

put him in explosive auric cage

and pour some silva water inside idk

[split mortar]

And suffocation in terraria jist damages you not unconscious

[split mortar]

Ah yes auric
The thing
That
Doesnt explode him

[strong notch]

a way to keep him contained

[split mortar]

Just punch out

[light linden]

I still wonder how fast yharim would try to kill us if we absorbed yharon's soul

[strong notch]

1 nanosecond

[split mortar]

Probably on our ass mid ritual

[icy veldt]

Put Yharim on life support just so he lives long enough for you to make him watch you ascend using reborn-Yharon's soul

[strong notch]

What if we throw him into psych ward

[split mortar]

He prob should go in one

[robust osprey]

the guy comes at your face mid ritual and it's instakill

[pulsar flax]

Bro
You're a psychopath

Just break his spine
Same effect

[strong notch]

Nah, i'm just bored

[pulsar flax]

Hi bored

[strong notch]

while making cryogen in wplace

and waiting for other stuff to be ready

just a late night full of waiting

[sinful adder]

Take it to Antarctica

[strong notch]

Too late

Making it in my region to see how many calamity fans i can find

[wanton pendant]

Even if you didn't kill Yharim and prevented him from committing Seppuku he's got much less then ten years of life left, so you're just dragging out the inevitable in a cruel and unusual way.

[frosty charm]

like a roblox redirect where it puts you in a modded surgeon simulator with yharim on life support

[sinful adder]

Wtf

[frosty charm]

oh yeah what makes auric decide whether or not to explode

[split mortar]

if you are a auric dragon or attuned to one you are fine

if you arent

death

[frosty charm]

so beating the shit out of yharon attunes you to one or do you trick it with the soul fragments

[split mortar]

trick it with soul fragments

nullifying the rejection alltogether

[frosty charm]

i see

so what do you canonically consume like at least a fraction of the fraction of soul fragments you get

do you accidentally inhale them and auric goes "hmmm yeha look good to me"

[split mortar]

no you dont otherwise the ore wouldnt reject you
you use the soul shards on the metal hence why the fragments get used in the crafting recipe of the bar

[frosty charm]

ah

also did yharon still defect from yharim or is that old lore

fuck

[split mortar]

they never defected from yharim afaik

even in old lore

[frosty charm]

thought they left because they were like ashamed of what they did or smth

idk i remember hearing it in a vid lol

[spring helm]

more like Yharon attacking you is against Yharim's wishes, due to Yharon fearing that we (the terrarian) will eventually kill yharim

[split mortar]

yharon encourags yharim

yharon is an enabler

[frosty charm]

i see

and does he just harass you when you kill yharim since they're best buds

and he probably doesn't take too kindly to you killing his friend

since yknow infinite cycle of reincarnation

[split mortar]

he tries stopping you before you can go fight yharim because he dont want yharim to die

while yharim probably doesnt care too much at this point

[icy veldt]

Deserved

[frosty charm]

yeah i mean like

since he infinitely reincarnates

would he come back after you kill yharim

[split mortar]

yharon will come back eventually yeah, in roughly 10 years

[frosty charm]

For revenge

[split mortar]

yharim would have died of age by then anyways
no matter what yharim and yharon will never see the other alive once we defeat yharon in combat

[split mortar]

gonna be a bit difficult when yharon is a baby and we are stronger then yharim

[frosty charm]

Or does yharon just leave you alone since you're definitely stronger and

Yeah

[icy veldt]

Hopefully by that time we'll know the ascension ritual

[frosty charm]

I think I want to include xeroc in the story but instead of directly interacting with the protag they just kinda observe them, maybe help them later since they did take care of noxus which probably would've been a problem otherwise so

Like they're kind of beyond the scope of the terrarians view; eldritch and unknowable. When they're trapped in darkness they observe for a while before forcibly dragging them down at mach fuck

[split mortar]

even draedon cant use auric easily iirc

[gaunt sluice]

Okay m a j o r changes in that last changelog

[split mortar]

Whatabout em

[wanton pendant]

They added Yharim to Smash Bros?

[eager bluff]

yeah

realistically to work with it at its full potential he would need help from yharim iirc

which is part of why he doesnt use solely auric

even if its really good

[tropic oak]

real quick question here, pretending im stupid,

why cant draedon work with auric

[wanton pendant]

But not better then tungsten #wulfrumwarriors.

[wanton pendant]

He'd get tased.

[robust osprey]

draexplosion

[tropic oak]

okay but why

[eager bluff]

hes unattuned and counts as a sentient being so it blows him up

[robust osprey]

auric racism

[wanton pendant]

He's not worthy.

[tropic oak]

because hes not attuned with a dragon?

[robust osprey]

racist against everything that's not yharon or yharim

[wanton pendant]

He isn't good enough friends with Yharon for that.

[tropic oak]

stip said a while back we are to assume draedon is soulless

[split mortar]

Afaik it rejects him
Cause he has the ability to melt and forge it so no other reason i can think of as to why

[tropic oak]

and you have to be attuned to a dragon to use it

but if thats the case

why doesnt auric ore fucking explode EVERYTHING

[wanton pendant]

Stone is worthy.

[tropic oak]

how is the STONE WORTHY !!!!!!!!!

PLOT HOLE !!!!!!!!!!!!

[eager bluff]

i think its uhh

[wanton pendant]

Because of the world soul.

World is made of stone.

[eager bluff]

something to do with the natural connection to the world soul

[robust osprey]

rocks are valuable for dragon monks

[pliant ruin]

Auric is wierd

weird

[tropic oak]

auric is Stupid

[wanton pendant]

So auric recognises stone as worthy.

[tropic oak]

draedon should realistically be able to work with auric

[strong notch]

at least it explodes golf balls

[robust osprey]

auric is just racist

[tropic oak]

hes literally nonliving

"sentient" being my ass

[split mortar]

The stone was always in contact so the auric never notices a new touch to explode??? Idfk

[wanton pendant]

Stone is worthy.

[dusk laurel]

what about the air then

[wanton pendant]

Air is worthy.

[eager bluff]

but what about if i place it

[split mortar]

Uhhhhhhhh

Uhhhhhhhh

[robust osprey]

air is not solid

[wanton pendant]

Because world soul. World has atmosphere. So air is worthy.

[split mortar]

Uhhhhhhhh

Idk

[pliant ruin]

shoudlnt you just be able to touch auric by like wearing armor

[tropic oak]

so ur telling me stone is worthy but not draedon who is effectively just metal, which itserlf, is just a material, and nonliving

[strong notch]

i guess it doesn't care about static objects

only about moving ones

[tropic oak]

[eager bluff]

i think it has something to do with a connection to the world soul

[wanton pendant]

Metal isn't worthy.

[tropic oak]

thats stupid as hell

[wanton pendant]

It's not stone.

[robust osprey]

draedon is too sexy to be JUST metal

[eager bluff]

that would be my best guess

[pliant ruin]

ive seen the argument that its because its attached to you and you are a living being

but like

[tropic oak]

the metals would have been also within the world soul because its apart of the world ???????

[pliant ruin]

what defines being attached to something

[tropic oak]

why would the metal be any different?????

[pliant ruin]

is the stone im settping on attached to me or

[tropic oak]

auric draedon 2025

[wanton pendant]

No no, metal has sinned.

[split mortar]

Auric is weird and we dont really know its rules well

Maybe draedon is considered an extension of his creator and so despite should be scott free is nuked???

[pliant ruin]

idk auric is weird

[split mortar]

We know golf balls are rejected

[tropic oak]

im sure there is no genuine canon reason for golfballs being rejected other than "haha launching ball funny"

[pliant ruin]

tbh like every problem we have with auric currently would be solved if draedon could work with it lmao

[wanton pendant]

Golf has sinned.

[pliant ruin]

though is it explicitly stated anywhere he cannot work with it

i dont remember

[eager bluff]

the argument could be that you need attunement (or mock attunement) to fully work with auric rather than it just being An Explody Rock

[frosty charm]

draedon is still a creature, even if he's using drones there's still life behind it
stone is not a creature

that's my idea anyways

[wanton pendant]

Stone is worthy.

[pliant ruin]

yeah but how do you define life then

[wanton pendant]

Because world soul.

[robust osprey]

when talking about miracle matter I think??

[pliant ruin]

how does the auric recognize draedon as a alive

[split mortar]

Draedon is a complete robot so what differes him from a moving rock

[strong notch]

it recognizes sentience

[wanton pendant]

Yharon told auric ore about Draedon.

[frosty charm]

higher function

[pliant ruin]

ok what about nanodroids

[wanton pendant]

Metal has sinned.

[strong notch]

like Draedon is the sentient AI while exo mechs are non sentient ones

[tropic oak]

draedon is a machine

he is not living

[robust osprey]

be gay

moving rock isnt gay

[split mortar]

How does it define that then

[frosty charm]

auric when the suspiciously terrarian shaped stone begins to speak

[pliant ruin]

what about the exo mechs too yeah

do they get rejected ingame

and even then

[icy veldt]

Auric just knows, okay?

[pliant ruin]

how does the Mineral define something as sentient or not

its just messy rn

[frosty charm]

isn't he some decrepit alien piloting mechs or was that changed

[wanton pendant]

Exo Mechs aren't handling auric tesla apart from your inferior armour.

[tropic oak]

no

[split mortar]

Draedon is a robot

An ai

Completely synthetic

[strong notch]

Auric is like quantum physics but more aggressive

[pliant ruin]

hes neither an organic being nor an alien hes just a robot from earth

[wanton pendant]

And Calamitas also isn't getting joy buzzered every time she stabs us.

[dusk laurel]

draedon hasnt been an alien cyborg in a while

[frosty charm]

im gonna shove him in a can

[eager bluff]

well
"need"
more accurate to say its just really really hard to work with to the point where 99% of the time it isnt worth it to try to work with it alone if you dont have any way of attuning

[tropic oak]

"Auric is near impossible to work with without being attuned to a Dragon or using the claimed soul of a Dragon to perform a "mock" attunement. However, if one can work with it truly powerful things can be created; enough so that using it in anything was deemed heretical by the Gods."

draedon is soulless and metal . he should be able to touch another metal (auric).

he literally cannot attune to a dragon

he has no soul

[strong notch]

he is still sentient tho

[tropic oak]

he would not blow up

HES NOT LIVING

[icy veldt]

You're gonna blow up

[wanton pendant]

How do you know Draedon has no soul?

[frosty charm]

maybe it's just naturally super electric so whenever he touches it he gets fried

[tropic oak]

stip

[pliant ruin]

Ok genuinely

[robust osprey]

draedon is gay thats why

[pliant ruin]

Is there ANY direct statements saying Draedon actually can't work with Auric

[tropic oak]

no

i just checked the lore doc

lol

[pliant ruin]

In fact like

[split mortar]

If they had a soul it would be a lot easier to kill them

[pliant ruin]

Guys

[wanton pendant]

You can't say gay people don't have souls it's homophobic.

[tropic oak]

womp

[pliant ruin]

The codebreaker uses an Auric Cooling Cell
and Draedon worked on Yharim's Armor

So like

are we really sure he can't work with Auric

[tropic oak]

draedon can work with auric

idgaf

[frosty charm]

Draedon... My scientist... I saw you kissing Yharim. I am very HOMOPHOBIC

[wanton pendant]

Just because he's gay I thought we were better then this.

[pliant ruin]

Because like there is No Auric in the Hearthlands until you kill Yharon

Can we stop brainrotting plz gang

Can we have like a normal conversation

[eager bluff]

without soul bullshit being there i think this is the best possible explanation

[split mortar]

Draedon is not limited to the heartlands

[frosty charm]

I mean best possible explanation is that he could work with auric

[pliant ruin]

Yeah but we have no confirmation there is auric anywhere else either

my point stands

[frosty charm]

what even is auric again

[wanton pendant]

Yharim used up all the auric making spare armour.

[robust osprey]

dragon metal

[split mortar]

Unless all the auric on the planet somehow got sent into space or into the core of the planet draedon should be able to acquire it

[pliant ruin]

The reason Draedon's exo mechs or constructions don't have any sort of auric materials could well be just because

theres none of it easily acessible

[frosty charm]

like its a mineral but doesn't it come from like dragon blood

[split mortar]

It existed enough for some gods to ban it

[pliant ruin]

Ok but do we know if there is alot of auric in the planet to begin with

[wanton pendant]

New Zealanders used it all up.

[tropic oak]

the best possible explanation is that he can work with auric because He Isn't Living therefore He Doesn't Need to Attune to a Dragon or Consume a Auric Soul because he is Soulless in the first place

we are Ignoring the golfball.

[split mortar]

Enough for gods to ban it

[pliant ruin]

Yeah but is that saying anything

[dusk laurel]

whats a golf

[pliant ruin]

Is that actually saying "There is alot of easily available auric metal in the world"

[icy veldt]

Ask the Golfer NPC

[wanton pendant]

Golf balls committed a great sin against the dragons.

[dusk laurel]

whos that, ive never heard of this guy

[split mortar]

Its draedon as long as it is available he can get it

[eager bluff]

its not that he cant work with it its more accurate to say he would get better (or at least similar) results via an alloy he can get much more consistently and in larger quantities than he could get auric

[icy veldt]

A golf ball once impacted Zeratros in the nuts

[pliant ruin]

Oh my god melon

[frosty charm]

i mean yeah is auric actually always around or does it canonically only come around once a dragon dies/their soul is exposed to the world or smth

[pliant ruin]

im going to kill you

stop missing my point

[robust osprey]

kill melon

[pliant ruin]

The latter

[strong notch]

Moon Lord used golf balls to kill Zeratros

[pliant ruin]

Auric does not exist in the game's location until you kill Yharon

[robust osprey]

maybe auric just makes draedon go boom by electricity or something

[frosty charm]

alright

[split mortar]

And draedon is not confined to that tiny ass space

[icy veldt]

Wait... Fovos swung a golf ball and hit Zeratros in the nuts!!!

[wanton pendant]

Auric Ore is probably just really, really rare.

[frosty charm]

some poor gem scuttler getting electrocuted with twelve million volts becaus it wanted to add the cool shiny golden ore to its back

[pliant ruin]

Yes thats

not what im saying

oh my god

im saying that ok what if auric is just not easily acessible and thats why Draedon dosent work with it

Like in general

using THE HEARTHLANDS AS A BASIS

there is No Auric Here At All

Who's to say it couldn't also be the same or similar for other places

[wanton pendant]

Because it's rare and probably most of it was used years ago.

[pliant ruin]

^^^^

[frosty charm]

so wait if draedon was an ai then was he built by yharim or someone else that we dont know

[pliant ruin]

Auric seems directly tied to the death of Dragons in some way yes?

[eager bluff]

and also other continents have the benefits of Not Having The Crusade Happen

[tropic oak]

kings queens and everything inbetweens i think we lost the plot

[wanton pendant]

He's older then Yharim.

[eager bluff]

someone else

[strong notch]

someone else

[wanton pendant]

By like 500 years.

[strong notch]

he clearly states that when he first awakened he found himself in taiga next to dead organic

[pliant ruin]

Unfortunately this chat has a very bad habit of not liking actual organized conversation and liking making a ton of jokes about any given topic rather than meaningfully contributing instead

[split mortar]

Draedon was built centuries before yharim was born

[wanton pendant]

Don't call me a king I'm not a monarchist!

[tropic oak]

true...

the whole debate was

can draedon touch and work with auric

how did we get here

[split mortar]

Idfk and i still dont buy cheeses point

[tropic oak]

lets wind it back

[wanton pendant]

We don't know exactly what Draedon is, like is he a pure ai, a botched consciousness transfer, a successful consciousness transfer...

The points quite simple I think.

[eager bluff]

if theres no auric in the heartlands and this is a location thats been marred by a fucking massive war for the past century imagine what it would be like in other continents that dont have the downside of an active century long war

[wanton pendant]

Draedon doesn't use Auric cause it's hard to get ahold of.

[tropic oak]

Draedon could be an AI, but the cybernetics attached to his creator’s body suggests he was a botched consciousness transfer. Alternatively, the transfer may have been successful, if his creator wished to wipe all of their memories.

my side of the debate is that

[wanton pendant]

Yeah that's what I said.

[pliant ruin]

Anyways, Auric is clearly connected to the death of Dragons in some way, all Dragons have been dead for centuries, there is literally none of it in Hearthlands until we kill Yharon so atleast in one location it's extremely rare. And this is the location that was literally the center of Yharim's crusade so why is there literally None of it in the place that had the most conflict

[tropic oak]

draedon is:

• soulless
• not living
• made of metal

therefore should be able to touch auric because

• is metal
• draedon is not a living creature
• draedon is metal

[faint totem]

Ai is a crapshoot

[icy veldt]

Perhaps the gods destroyed it all, or hid it elsewhere, to try to prevent anyone from using or being hurt by it

[tropic oak]

and considering he PROBABLY TOUCHED YHARIMS ARMOR

[faint totem]

Counterpoint.

Auric is zappy

[tropic oak]

counterpoint

its draedon

[robust osprey]

not probably he literally upgraded it

[wanton pendant]

Draedon figured out how to make things stronger then auric, so he has no need to use it.

And it's too rare to use much anyway.

[tropic oak]

i dont think this is true

[wanton pendant]

The invincible armour of Thanatos:

[robust osprey]

exos would be giga strong if draedon could get enough auric me thinks

[split mortar]

Is the exo alloy stronger then auric? I know its close or rivalling but outcompeting?

[tropic oak]

correct

all im sayin is

draedon can work with auric, and given if it were a earlier development within the world,

[wanton pendant]

Well that's just a theory, a game theory!

[tropic oak]

he wouldve used it

[split mortar]

Which has the downsides of weighing fuck you anounts

[pliant ruin]

If Draedon couldn't touch Auric, upgrading Yharim's armor would be rather bothersome. And again, don't forget how the reason he agreed in the first place is because getting to study Auric up close would be interesting for him. Why would it be interesting if Auric was common enough where he could just go in a cave in another continent and study it there? "Oh because rejection" - By the same merit that he can study Yharim's armor he should be able to study Auric ore in the wild, rejection or not

[tropic oak]

thats ALL Im sayin

[frosty charm]

also yeah since the dragon died ages ago i imagine that most of the auric was already mined out and either destroyed by the gods or lost in trade

[tropic oak]

shoutout cheese for being able to articulate actual arguments

[frosty charm]

so i agree he probably could work with auric

[pliant ruin]

Him finding studying Auric up close to be interesting only makes sense under the assumption Auric is extremely rare and Yharim's armor is one of the few opportunities he'd have to study, and it makes far more sense than Draedon just being auric rejected for Some Reason even though he literally upgrades Yharim's armor

[strong notch]

maybe it's much weaker without the attunement and worse than other materials he has access to

[split mortar]

No auric doesnt get weaker or anything

[robust osprey]

the attunement doesnt affect auric itself

[split mortar]

Or stronger

[robust osprey]

it only affects if you can touch it or not (if youre a living being)

[pliant ruin]

1. Draedon dosen't exclusively care about whether something is "worse" or "better", he cares about knowledge
2. Auric does not change in strenght based on attunement, it simply changes whether you get auric blasted or not

[eager bluff]

i think the best explanations for why he doesnt use it is

• rarity. theres none in the heartlands and that place has been essentially entirely unindustrialized for about a century. in other places that are still industrialized there would be even less because of active mining efforts
• difficulty of working with it. this is definitely my weakest point but its relatively safe to assume that pure auric is just an absolute bitch to work with if you dont have any way of attuning or making it think you're attuned.
• quality of draedons other materials. we already know exo alloy is on a similar level to auric. why would he use a much more limited material when he has a more readily available material in much larger quantities.

[wanton pendant]

I think it's just too rare and troublesome to obtain for him to use in production.

[frosty charm]

would he accept another opportunity to work with it though

[tropic oak]

where is this debate coming from

[wanton pendant]

Didn't you ask?

[strong notch]

most likely

[tropic oak]

yeah and i didnt get an answer

[wanton pendant]

What was the question again?

[frosty charm]

anyways since that debate seems to be over
do we have any insight on what xeroc is like (personality wise) or are they a blank slate atm (beyond backstory)

[tropic oak]

he speaks to us during boss rush

[wanton pendant]

Check boss rush.

[split mortar]

Stoner energy

[tropic oak]

hes a very big stoner yeah

[dusk laurel]

When the battle was finally over, the dust having just began to settle
Where even the stone refused the course of time, there sat a monk
Who dared to question history and stare into fate
'What is the true price of the past being ever eternal?
Why must our future forever haunt us?'

[frosty charm]

right

[dusk laurel]

boss rush isnt the only insight we have right now guys

[frosty charm]

havent done that event in ever because i dont like it xDDD

[frosty charm]

oh what else

[split mortar]

Also terminus words
And embers!

[wanton pendant]

Many don't.

[split mortar]

Embers !!!

[dusk laurel]

i sent the rock description

[split mortar]

Embers

[dusk laurel]

the thing you get from beating br

[split mortar]

Xeroc is shown a bit in it

[dusk laurel]

melon gun are you like the biggest embers fanboy i feel like ive seen you link it at least 20 times in the past month

[split mortar]

I think it cool and when relevant i link it

It is calamity lore related so autism

[young socket]

melon gun points at it like how a fnaf theorist points at the books

[split mortar]

😭?

[tropic oak]

what is embers again

provi?

[wanton pendant]

It's the one that explains Yharim is actually four different robots.

[strong notch]

kinda

[dusk laurel]

embers is the provi what if scenario cei wrote

[sinful adder]

We know a lot. They're a chill guy

[split mortar]

What if on if provi won

[tropic oak]

oh so its not actually connected

ok cool

[young socket]

non canon what if story by cei on how provi would win

[frosty charm]

cause an idea i had for xeroc is that they exist kinda like echoes from rw; fragments of themselves/memories that speak to the protag on occasion. tries to guide them down the right path and give insight on what's going on

[split mortar]

By cei and uses canon info

Iirc

[young socket]

yea as i said

its essentially a fnaf book

[dusk laurel]

truth duke

[frosty charm]

so not canon but also is canon and fuck you for thinking otherwise?

[split mortar]

Idfk what those actuslly mean for the lore of fnaf

[tropic oak]

i'm unsure

i mean, the only reason he talks to us in the first place is because we got one of his rocks

[young socket]

non canon but they display a lot of relevant world building and lore details

[tropic oak]

he do be keeping an eye doe

i love xeroc ❤️

[frosty charm]

i know its probably below him to talk to some rando but for the sake of cool moments i'll do it

[split mortar]

Xeroc iirc is rather hands off with the inner workings of the planet

Since

Providence wasnt nuked

[strong notch]

decided to read it and darn it's pretty interesting

[split mortar]

Nor was even yharim

[tropic oak]

i dont think hes that kinda guy

his personality (from what scraps ive gotten from here) is very "get shit done; deal with the consequences"

[split mortar]

Not even draedon knows of the guy

[young socket]

xeroc gives me heavy @cloud ibex vibes

[strong notch]

i wonder how branches involving other characters would look like but i suppose it was a one time occurence

[split mortar]

Xeroc and leon both have stoner energy

[young socket]

true

[split mortar]

Oh nah we know multiple others planned

[wanton pendant]

You mean other stories? They mentioned wanting to write more.

Like, yesterday I think.

[strong notch]

then i am looking forward to seeing them

[frosty charm]

🤷‍♀️ i like the idea of him doing it anyways
like hes not gonna directly tell them what to do or even imply that they need to do something, just kinda talk with them for the sake of it. why? i still dunno since again he doesn't seem like the type to do it but i don't think it's horrible character butchery

[split mortar]

This and down

[tropic oak]

let your headcanons be many

[eager bluff]

let your headcanons be many and canon conflicts few

[sinful adder]

As cool as this is, it's completely out of character for xeroc

[tropic oak]

[strong notch]

i cannot not enjoy the poetic slightly enigmatic style it was written in

it's really well written

[sinful adder]

Almost no one even knows xeroc exists, deliberately

[wanton pendant]

It's like it's some kind of... Writing.

[split mortar]

Not even draedon knows

[frosty charm]

alrightt

[split mortar]

If xeroc was to talk to someone it would probably be a lot more discrete to not draw attention

[tropic oak]

discrete to not draw attention
GIANT SIGIL IN THE SKY GO

[wanton pendant]

Nobody will notice.

[split mortar]

Ok fair enough 😭

[frosty charm]

i do want a xeroc encounter but i didn't want them to directly help beyond actually killing noxus (by the point of the story noxus consumes the majority of the aerie (im making noxus up) so they become supa strong) so they'd just kinda watch the protag while they're there

[tropic oak]

wow guys she sure likes xeroc

-# mild discord bug

[strong notch]

now imagine if Xeroc was projecting all of that into our mind

[split mortar]

@ cei2279 wtfrick frack is up with you and xeroc

[strong notch]

so when we fight bosses during boss rush it looks like we are running around and hitting air to npc (if they were not able to hit npc and only us)

[frosty charm]

then terrarian explodes to the godawful od fight

for the love of godddd

[eager bluff]

terrarian heat stroke arc real

[frosty charm]

kill old duke...

[heavy zenith]

I mean its Primordial Light Projection (sunlight) so that begs the question, is it visible light or can the Terraria just see higher or lower wavelengths

[wanton pendant]

It's hard light.

[frosty charm]

prob visible light

[split mortar]

considering day is well bright i imagine others can see primordial light as well

[dusk laurel]

well the terraria sun emits primordial light so

[wanton pendant]

Don't rub your face against it.

It will set your face on fire.

[frosty charm]

wasnt planning on it

[heavy zenith]

The crusades are considered over at the time of the Terrarian waking up right?

[split mortar]

yeah the crusade fizzled out for the most part

[frosty charm]

how long ago were they between the time big t is around

[split mortar]

big t?

[frosty charm]

terrarian

[heavy zenith]

So the Crusades start in 1781 and end in 1886 or something, but Draedon leaves in 1875, Draedon says that he was Yharims most valuable asset for Most of the crusades, which would mean, from him saying that, that Calamitas had to have joined anywhere between 1834 to 1865 since she served for nearly a decade, AND left before Draedon?

[split mortar]

prob a few years or months depending on your definition, yharim and yharon at their level rn could do a lot of it by themselves and they left for aerie a few months ago but the actual yharim army prob became much less active a while before that

[split mortar]

calamitas is like 28

served and left before she became an adult iirc

[heavy zenith]

Does it say that in game?

The 28 thing?

[split mortar]

multiple lore devs have agreed on late twenties when we fight her more then once iirc

[wheat walrus]

dang

[split mortar]

not ingame but a statement
also her serving for nearly a decade was wrong and the writers are gonna fix that next update

this came to their attention when someone else tried making a timeline and the dates didnt add up iirc

[warm gull]

lord disgusting

[split mortar]

rare dai appearance

eat coins

[warm gull]

mmmm metallic taste

[icy veldt]

Eat Yharim

[warm gull]

no thats beyond spicy

auric rejection is bad for your mental and physical well-being

[icy veldt]

You remove the armor first, 🅱️ingus

[heavy zenith]

I mean its makes sense when I made it, its just that things are going to be in a specific order, and some things have to be changed. For example, Polterghast has to be after the Ceaseless Void is shown to Yharim, which has to be before DoG joins the cause. Another example is like Draedon saying she joined in the final stages of the crusade, but in reality its 1834 to 65. The latter could just be chalked up to Draedons wordplay being weird, but still.

[warm gull]

I'm pretty sure the average person would break their teeth on yharim's skin

[split mortar]

no she was like the last addition to the yharmy

[warm gull]

also damn b emoji in the big 25

[icy veldt]

Remove that, too

[warm gull]

the muscle tissue would be even harder

[heavy zenith]

But Draedon left in 1875, and then made a log saying that she arrived some months before he worked with Permafrost

So that isn't possible

[warm gull]

and if the bones can survive the sort of strength that yharim has then they'd be even harder

[heavy zenith]

It just makes sense if they dont change anything except for some wordplay

[warm gull]

my demon heart is crying rn

[frosty charm]

Is your blood gushing bright

[split mortar]

dragon cult also completely cut connection with yharim when polter happened so why would they do the cv showing?

[warm gull]

i think so

[heavy zenith]

Well yeah Cv Visit has to be before Lolterghast forms

[frosty charm]

Is ceaseless void sentient

Or are they just like

[split mortar]

wait no misread polter is after cv showing my bad

[frosty charm]

A robot portal

[heavy zenith]

He's just a chill guy

[split mortar]

just a long lasting portal not even robot

just an object

[warm gull]

it isn't even a robot yeah its just a portal

[frosty charm]

So how do they even fight you
Will they in the redesign/rework

[sinful adder]

It has enchantments that make it protect itself

[warm gull]

yeah

the dragon cult sealed it and put protections onto it so that people cant use it

[sinful adder]

So sort of like magic robot

[split mortar]

theres self defence spells on it to protect it but those are added by the cultists, it stays around after we beat it in the fight as a portal

its a door with turrets attached, door itself still a door tho

[frosty charm]

I see

Ok

[heavy zenith]

I love spreading misinformation

[split mortar]

whar

[heavy zenith]

Its a portal to a dimension with theoretically supernatural laws of physics, nothing in game says anything about turrets.

I dont mean to fight I just am not understanding

[split mortar]

the turrets is an analogy for the self defense spells on it

which is why it fights us
those spells

[cloud ibex]

i'm taking this as a compliment

[icy veldt]

Would Xeroxing Xeroc give you Xerocs?

[wanton pendant]

Theory: Calamitas has been spending her time trying to help people for the last decade or so, breaking Clone out is one of these attempts at heroism. She likely avoids showing her identity, as most people, especially those who aren't aligned with Yharim are terrified of her due to her reputation. She does this in an attempt to atone for her crimes, although no matter how much she does she's never able to forgive herself.

[pliant ruin]

Yeah i fully believe this

[wanton pendant]

Someone gets the vision!

[pliant ruin]

you have certified approval from ajne calamitas

[split mortar]

And its calamitas herself

[young socket]

ajne

[wanton pendant]

My other theory I expect will be mildly more controversial.

[pliant ruin]

is it that yharim hates pineapple pizza

[wanton pendant]

Oh, no, nothing like that.

[young socket]

ofc he hates pineapple pizza

he likes his pizzas more grounded and earthy

[wanton pendant]

But that's how I've been imagining what Calamitas has been doing for the last few years she's unaccounted for.

[pliant ruin]

no he loves pineapple pizza

[young socket]

which is why his favourite toppings is potato

[pliant ruin]

hes evil

he loves potato pizza even more

[pliant ruin]

Yeah i see the vision

[young socket]

true

he IS evil

[pliant ruin]

I basically made a interpretation of calamitas of mine for a certain roleplay do that

I doubt Calamitas has just been standing around not doing anything ever since she left the Yharmy

[young socket]

a certain roleplay

: )

[pliant ruin]

Sure, initially i can see her being too scared to actively do much

But its been like 10 years by the time you fight her

I think at that point she'd be more than recovered enough to directly try helping from the shadows

[wanton pendant]

Anyway, theory two: Permafrost's motivation to join the crusade/adopt Calamitas is due to a god/gods being responsible for the death of his family, likely his children. It would explain why a pacifist would participate in a genocide and why someone so old would be so quick to adopt a child.

[pliant ruin]

I can potentially see it

[split mortar]

The devious growing roleplay that haunts calmain

[pliant ruin]

Permafrost did initially join when Yharim was just killing gods who where explicitly evil and bad

So he could've potentially been directly harmed, or having his loved ones been harmed, by them

[wanton pendant]

I was thinking, why would a pacifist do genocide, and why would an old man adopt a kid. The simplest explanation is a god killed his kid.

[pliant ruin]

Initially it didn't seem like a genocide tbf

[dusk laurel]

ryoshu but an old man

[pliant ruin]

It just seemed like a rebellion against actually bad people

i like to think that

Slowly

as Yharim targetted less and less blatantly malevolent Gods

Permafrost likely had grown to admire and even see the man as a friend

So he was just

[wanton pendant]

I think the first targets were certainly the more overtly malevolent gods.

[pliant ruin]

Trying to justify

Yharim's actions in his head

Trying to convince himself he wasn't just being deplorable and evil, because i mean, he was his friend and they had helped eachother win fights against super evil deplroable tyrant gods way back then, right

[wanton pendant]

But I was thinking about how hard it would be to sell an endeavour like that to a pacifist, no matter how noble the intentions.

[pliant ruin]

But as Yharim did more and more cruel things, targetted gods and people that were less and less easy to label as "evil"

The illusion kinda faded away

Tl;dr sunken cost fallacy

And by the time Illmeris was here then it was just

[wanton pendant]

So if it were personal, it would explain why he would have been so lenient for so long.

[pliant ruin]

yeah no yharim youre fucking evil im not working with you again

[wanton pendant]

Then his new kid got hurt.

[pliant ruin]

because yeah

its hard to

accept that someone youre close to, who you helped and who has helped you

someone you consider a friend

is a bad person

[wanton pendant]

Has been using your kid as a murder weapon.

[pliant ruin]

=alot of the time when such thing happens y ou'll just try to rationalize their actions, find justifications for it, because you dont want that to be true

but at some point, it just becomes too hard to justify nad you have to accept it

[wanton pendant]

I feel like Ilmeris would be the last straw, impossible to keep hidden from him as it was a multi day affair and burning a kingdom to the ground is hard to do in secret.

[pliant ruin]

The reason i think this is because Perma was one of Yharim's first ever allies

And he joined him during a time it seemed like Yharim was, in fact, doing a good thing

[wanton pendant]

I do think that given how Permafrost is presented, it would take a bit more then charisma and propaganda to get him on his side, that's why I think him having a personal interest isn't unreasonable, i.e. a god killed his kid.

[pliant ruin]

that's valid

[wanton pendant]

So he would already be anti-god and would want them brought to justice.

[pliant ruin]

i'm saying i think the reason he stayed

was because of htat

[wanton pendant]

Yeah that makes sense.

[sinful adder]

Just had an idea

Calamity swap where permafrost and Calamitas are switched, and ilmeris is the tundra instead of the desert. Permafrost froze it

[icy veldt]

My Terrarian had been made an angry cynic by seeing the absolute state of Terraria, so he'd just dismiss Perm's explanation as being the same kind of self-convinced lie as the ones Yharim uses (even though they're not even similar)

"Look at this world. Look at it! That's what your idea of 'justice' leads to."

[icy veldt]

There's probably someone living in Terraria who writes alternate history novels like that

[wanton pendant]

Permafrost talking about how his mom has a stupid nickname but then again he has moves called 'Snowgrave' and 'Icestorm'.

[sinful adder]

Yharim knows and likes that

[sinful adder]

Yeah :3

[icy veldt]

Huh, I'm curious about why he'd like that. I didn't think Yharim would take too kindly to some heckler trash-talking what he fought for

[sinful adder]

(ice shock actually)

[sinful adder]

He thinks destroying the world is better

[wanton pendant]

Yharim would see Permafrost as weak willed and treacherous, he would obviously approve of him being criticized.

[sinful adder]

That was the point. Kill everything that is related to the gods

[wanton pendant]

'Oh, your kid got groomed? Grow up, Cupcake.'

[icy veldt]

I see. So an opportunity for character development would be my Terrarian slowly realizing that the world needs an Augustus, not an Attila (in IRL history terms; in-universe would be differently-worded)

[sinful adder]

?

I don't get it

[icy veldt]

I'm pondering how my Terrarian's character arc should go

[wanton pendant]

Attila the Hun, Scourge of God.

[sinful adder]

Yharim won't grow as a person

[wanton pendant]

Romans didn't like the chap.

[sinful adder]

Idk anything about your character

[icy veldt]

I'm just spitballing rn

Aimless speculation

[wanton pendant]

Augustus, I'm fairly certain was the first Roman emperor, unless I'm misremembering.

You're saying Terraria needs a leader not a warlord.

[icy veldt]

Pretty much. Someone who builds an empire from the ground up, instead of smashing one together out of rubble

[wanton pendant]

So no Neromaxxing.

[icy veldt]

This is a bit off-topic for the channel, but Nero was probably not to blame for the fire in Rome. He made a genuine attempt to save the city's citizens, and the "playing the lyre" thing was a lie by his senatorial enemies. Building a new palace on top of the rubble was a faux pas and a bit opportunistic, though

[sinful adder]

Well, no, it also needed a lot of things smashed

[icy veldt]

I meant in Terraria. Shit's already smashed, so it's time to build

[wanton pendant]

I guess in this analogy Yharim's Julius, marching eagerly to his certain death.

And you see this and realise that he wasn't what Rome needed.

They needed an Imperator!

Rome.

[icy veldt]

No, Octavian and Marc Antony finished what Caesar started, and purged the assassins who killed him. Yharim was more like, I dunno, Pompey or Brutus or Cassius in this analogy. He's most like Sulla, trying to bring back the old Draconic Age being like trying to bring back the Republic's aristocratic rule

[sinful adder]

Then yes

I guess

[icy veldt]

A Caesar or Octavian LARP-aesthetic, viewing Yharim as Terraria's Sulla, appeals to me perfectly 😎

[wanton pendant]

Wouldn't Braelor and Statis be more the assassins?

Their actions led to a fundamental change in the world order.

[icy veldt]

Um, no. They tried and failed to assassinate Yharim in a literal sense, but that's about it

Well, no. That fundamental change = Yharim getting a new set of armor, and that's about it

[wanton pendant]

He also left his seat of power, leading to the collapse of what's left of his realm.

[icy veldt]

Wasn't "what's left of his realm" already basically collapsed?

Yharim leaving his seat of power just finished it off

[wanton pendant]

Man I don't know enough about Roman history for this.

[icy veldt]

😔

[wanton pendant]

Don't worry, I'm sure there's an American who will ask about it in this server soon.

[icy veldt]

My evil twin from Michigan?

[wanton pendant]

Maybe I'll reread my biography on Cleopatra one of these days.

[cosmic zenith]

YEAAHHHH

[wanton pendant]

Actually, what else would be swapped? Are Yharim and Yharon swapped, and how the hell does that work?

'You will become God-King by absorbing the soul of this baby!' 'Draconic Screeching.' 'You dare defy destiny?'

[pliant ruin]

yharim xeroc swap tbh

[wanton pendant]

Then is it DoG swapped with Yharon?

Instead of Auric Dragons it was Auric Serpents?

[icy veldt]

In-universe alt-history novel about that scenario written by a guy named Böridyd Askub, but that's just his real name and not a pseudonym, so people joke that he's a metaphysical entity retrocausally created by his own fiction named "Boreal-Dude Ice-Cube"

[wanton pendant]

Wait, would Permafrost have gotten his power fighting Anahita in this scenario?

[icy veldt]

He got it fighting the Ice God who looks suspiciously similar to the Ice King from Adventure Time

[sinful adder]

As a side effect, the desert was just always like that and Calamitas lived there

[wanton pendant]

She made it hotter because she felt like it.

And then got firegraved.

[icy veldt]

I thought Calamitas wouldn't like sand, though. It's course and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere

[wanton pendant]

Nah, that's Yharim you're thinking of.

[icy veldt]

Dayumn, you're right

[sinful adder]

But how do you make sand and fire connected. Glass?

Yeah. Cryogen is now vitrigen

[lean crane]

random thing

how old is scal in calamity lore?

[sinful adder]

28ish

[lean crane]

bcuz I keep seeing so many sources saying so many things 😭

[lean crane]

yeah that checks out

saw someone saying she was in her mid thirties

[sinful adder]

Most sources outside this specific discord channel are wrong

[wanton pendant]

Don't consult the steam community forum for that topic.

[lean crane]

true

[wanton pendant]

None of them agree, and they are all very wrong.

[split mortar]

The writers are pretty active here wait a day ir two you are bound to see em
Can also just ping with a question

[wanton pendant]

But yeah most consistent answer is she's 28, give or take, but less than 30, definitely.

She's been traumamaxxing to get like that so quickly.

[split mortar]

Late twenties basically

[visual kiln]

wait true

ur cooking

brimmy & silva swap?

or

anahita and silva swap

idk

[wanton pendant]

Catastrophe and Cataclysm are swapped with Braelor and Statis, now it's two brothers who tried to defeat a tyrant, and Permafrost's gay parents who drowned.

[brazen swallow]

what a lore

[wanton pendant]

What is a lore, but a miserable little pile of narrative?

[frosty charm]

SwapLamity

[visual kiln]

what lore

wore

[brazen swallow]

that one clearly

[dusty jasper]

When did calamity lore change

I remember yharim used to be the big bad and he was the jungle tyrant

Now he seems a lot more remorseful

[faint totem]

A while ago

[dusty jasper]

Does anyone have any records of the old lore

[faint totem]

They better not. I spent time burning those things

[eager bluff]

i have the old lore doc somewhere

but you will not get it

[sinful adder]

like 2 or 3 years ago

the old lore was really, really bad

the characters have depth now

yharim is still just as evil, maybe more. But he thinks he was a hero that just did a few things wrong.

[cosmic zenith]

Don't be rude, guys

[cosmic zenith]

Please do share it

[cosmic zenith]

This is pretty accurate

Yharim is still pretty evil, now a lot more cunning and manipulative rather than temperamental

[heavy zenith]

Yharim ghosting the dragon cult is something I will never understand. Like they literally wanna do the same thing as you probably as much as you do

[real silo]

the dragon cult wants to revive dragons but yharim knows the dragons can't come back

[heavy zenith]

"The return of the Age of the Dragons...dashed just like that" -Yharon Lore Item. He says this almost like he hoped he'd be able to

[real silo]

True

[hushed musk]

i'm not asking for myself, but rather for another person. yharon is not immortal and should have been reborn once, as happened. and subsequently the player kills him.
some people still think that yharon is immortal

[real silo]

yea he's not immortal

he can and will die eventually but he just comes right back

[hushed musk]

thanks for the confirmation

[cosmic zenith]

Yeah, he's just capable of rebirth
Which still takes a decade or so

[heavy zenith]

He rebirths into whatveer age he died in no?

Sounds more like a curse to me lmao

[cosmic zenith]

No, not really

[heavy zenith]

o

[real silo]

He rebirths into baby

[cosmic zenith]

Dragons don't have infinite lifespans
If Yharon rebirthed into his age at death, he would eventually just grow old and get stuck being spawncamped by crippling senility

[heavy zenith]

That why I said curse lol, Imagine he just keeps dying and rebirthing

[cosmic zenith]

Yharim and the Dragon Cult are quite distinct despite their surface similarities
I feel like Yharim definitely respected them and appreciated their interest in the Auric Dragons, but he does call them misguided zealots; they are more of a tactical alliance than a fellowship

[cosmic zenith]

Yeah, that would definitely be a curse

[heavy zenith]

yeah that definitely makes sense, I would assume when Cult is like "hey your prisoners are turning into a monster we can't defeat." He probably just thought "Welp its your problem now." One less issue for him after the Crusades.

[cosmic zenith]

Pretty much

I imagine one of the main points of the Dragon Cult was controlling the flow and accessibility of information and historical records - whether it's guarded by nerd zealots or a clinically insane ghost amalgamation is ultimately irrelevant to Yharim

[heavy zenith]

makes sense, I did put Old Man getting cursed by Dragn Cult at the Mid to Late Crusades. I assumed he was human and that he was 65 since thats when you're considered elderly today. Which put him being cursed right around the 1820s area

On my timeline I tried to create for the modpack^

[wanton pendant]

1820s would be around forty years into the crusade, which lasted around a century, so I wouldn't call that late crusade.

[heavy zenith]

i consider early crusades 1781 to 1803 Draedon Joining. Middle and Late can be divided up between the next 83 years. You're still righ though definitely Middle

[wanton pendant]

If we regard the first 22 years as early, then certainly the next 17 would be very much middle. The question would be what are we defining as late? DoG recruitment would probably be what Yharim would claim as the decline, but we have little reference for when that occured.

[heavy zenith]

I like to use DoG joining as the transition from Mid to Late, the thing is like we have nothing to determine a time that he joined. Like all I've found so far is that he had to join after Draedon joined. so it could be literally anywhere from like 1803 to 1886

[wanton pendant]

He also has to be before Calamitas, and Calamitas joined somewhere around 15 years ago, assuming she is 28 now and joined at 13. Also I was thinking the game date was closer to 1885 but there isn't really a whole lot of conclusive proof for the current year to my knowledge.

(Since the last known date to my memory is 1875, the year Draedon leaves.)

[heavy zenith]

I don't really know when Cal joins either tbh, all we get is "around the final stage of the Crusade" from Draedon, and that she served nearly a decade. But that could mean two things: Either Draedon means she joined in the final stages of HIM being a part of the yharmy, so like the last ten years like 1865 to 1875 or: Draedon was just watching the crusades happen after he left: which could put her anywhere tbh

[wanton pendant]

Nearly a decade thing is wrong.

The dates won't line up if you factor her as being around for around nine years, it's closer to five or less.

A lot of people here claim that Calamitas left before turning 18, but as far as I'm aware there is no definitive evidence for that.

Yes I know the bestiary says it that's the one bestiary entry with a known error.

[heavy zenith]

man, I didnt know that was wrong

that threw a fat wrench on my timeline

[wanton pendant]

Tell me about it.

I tried calculating dates with it in mind and the numbers came out all screwed up and nonesensical.

For a start, Dreadon would have to be gone for years before Calamitas left, directly contradicting his own statements.

But my game date of around 1885, which I will note uses quite heavy extrapolation is that 1875, the year Draedon left is around ten years before the game starts. It may be off by around a year but I think it's a decent middle ground year.

This would also make the crusade around 103 years long, since it's been over about a year or thereabouts.

[heavy zenith]

I see what you mean, Draedon would have had to leave last based off his Calamitas inquiry

[wanton pendant]

(Notably, this makes the crusade shorter then the real life 100 years war. 116 years.)

The only thing that burns hotter then Yharim's racism is the English-French rivalry.

[heavy zenith]

I mean, lets say the decade thing wasn't wrong, and that Calamitas wasn't 28. It would make sense for her have joined anywhere from 1803 to 1865. But I would also like to point out the usage of the word most by Draedon here: "For most of the campaign, I was undoubtedly Yharim's greatest asset, but that changed when she arrived." If Draedons usage of 'most' here is valid, that pushes the range of possibility to somewhere a little closer to 1865