lore-discussion

[split mortar]

Yes

[fair vortex]

ooh

how did he do it anyway

what was he before absorbing that soul

[split mortar]

A human monk for the dragon king zeratros

[mighty zenith]

we dont know and likely never will

the ritual at least

[split mortar]

Xeroc made the ritual iirc

[fair vortex]

whos zeratros?

[pliant ruin]

g

[mighty zenith]

g indeed

[split mortar]

The dragon king, auric dragon of primordial light

[fair vortex]

is anything known about him

or is he just like

[gritty kraken]

he’s chill

[fair vortex]

someone whose name is mentioned time to time

[gritty kraken]

And @split mortar killed him

[pliant ruin]

we don't know much if anything about zeratros but we'll likely known more in the future

[split mortar]

Likely made the sun stronger so dragons could rule the surface uncontested

Also around yharim level

[pliant ruin]

beyond, as melon gun said, auric dragon of primordial light and king of dragons

[split mortar]

Hey

:(

[fair vortex]

xeroc had to have had balls of steel to put up with a dragon of a kind of yharims level AND absorb his soul

[pliant ruin]

he was dying

zeratros, that is

it wasn't really a fight

[gritty kraken]

Wasn’t xerox like
Zeratos buddy or something

[mighty zenith]

also xeroc before ascension was also really fucking strong

[pliant ruin]

he was at his service yeah

[mighty zenith]

pretty sure he had access to auric

[split mortar]

Zeratros was on their deathbed when xeroc consumed them

Though xeroc pre ascension themselves is vaguely like weaker then yharim but above providence iirc

[pliant ruin]

we don't know much abt their relationship other than that

[gritty kraken]

Yharon level I heard

[split mortar]

Its really up in the air from the writers
Thats only ine of their opinions

[fair vortex]

bro i just died to thana last mech at like 37% or some shit im gonna kill myself

master death exos are a fucking pain in the ass

[split mortar]

Rip

[fair vortex]

it was such a good attempt too i brought every mech down to just above 40% during mayhem

god fucking DAMN IT

[robust osprey]

thats a headcanon iirc

a headcanon I like

[fair vortex]

lmao why does the draedon prefight music stop if you go to space

[real silo]

Space is a vacuum so no sound

Smh this is basic science

[gray tulip]

since all the exhumed weapons are for the "magical" classes, do yall think its possible we'd get a similar system from another npc for melee, range, and rogue?

[split mortar]

Theyre adding other class weapons for exhumed at some point

We know blissful bombardier is getting one

[gray tulip]

i see. i will be praying for my favorite items 🙏

[robust osprey]

draedon's speakers dont reach space

[spring helm]

Ark of the cosmos

🙏

[sleek halo]

we’ll nevee know really how strong bcuz well

it doesn’t mater

lol

[mighty zenith]

tru

[split mortar]

Just that theyre
Vaguely very fucking strong but below zeratros

[sleek halo]

yeah

[sly wharf]

Could dog actually best the exomechs?

[magic epoch]

no

[cloud ibex]

Not together

If he fought each one individually he maybe could though

[split mortar]

If its a single exo then id say its matchup based

Alltogether? Hell naw

[sly wharf]

Sounds about right

[pliant ruin]

if you are what you eat then DoG is truly a DoF.............

[magic epoch]

devourer of fail

[pliant ruin]

Devourer of FRAUDS

[sly wharf]

Devourer of friendships

[wheat walrus]

so true gods are frauds

dog is what he eats so he's a fraud too

[dusk laurel]

fraud of ash

[sly wharf]

Where is xeroc now

[pliant ruin]

somewhere

we dont really know

[latent flower]

he's chilling

[gray tulip]

theory from someone who hasn't read any google docs:
Yharon was once the dragon of life. Silva killed him and ate his auric soul, but because he was the dragon of life, he didn't really die and instead came back as the dragon of rebirth.
I don't like this theory because i prefer to think of life, death, and rebirth as a trinity, but given the events currently told to us in game, its possible.

[split mortar]

Eh, not really

Yharon is why auric dragons can rebirth, they have to be rebirth domain before the fovos invasion

And fovos is what causes the first god to ascend

[gray tulip]

isn't it possible that the previous dragon of life just had rebirth as part of the domain and that's why dragons could do it

[split mortar]

Theres no example of a creature with a domain changing it

And also i dont think life would be wide enough to fit rebirth imo

[gray tulip]

both fair points, but they don't completely disprove the theory.
Not a theory i think is likely btw, just a thought i had that seems possible

the biggest hole in it would be that silva seemingly had a perfect ascension which would imply the entirety of the auric soul was devoured whereas an argument could be made that in imperfect ascensions only a piece was, and yharon... still has an auric soul. so thats the biggest flaw, i think.

[indigo glade]

Life and Rebirth are seperate domains as seen in Yharon's Bestiary Entry.

[gray tulip]

i also haven't read bestiary entries, theory disproven then

[split mortar]

You should

Theyre the only absolutely true and nonbiased source

What it says is fact

[scenic olive]

Dang so many Omni in this server

Quick question

Do you guys think

[hoary berry]

no

[wheat walrus]

I transcend thought

[scenic olive]

understandable have a nice day

[wheat walrus]

same sigma

[hoary berry]

i do not have a brain with which to think

[scenic olive]

Okay so according to the brain it doesnt exist but the brain states that so it has to exist so its a paradoxical state of mind

[wheat walrus]

outerverse level pHGoose

[hoary berry]

the geese speak through me

direct link to my mouth

no brain required

[scenic olive]

so youre like an translator

for geese

but geese still have brains

[split mortar]

Phgoose
Hmm

You have goosric soul of rebirth dont you

[dusk laurel]

Nough

[split mortar]

Manual breathing: on

[dusk laurel]

[split mortar]

I just i flicted my self with it

[gray tulip]

since calamity takes obvious inspirations from dark souls, lorewise

what if yharim is just a total pushover

[cloud ibex]

would be kinda disappointing i think

[gray tulip]

yeah i was mostly making a joke, it would be disappointing because of the wait, but narratively it would represent blah blah blah you've all fought gwyn

[cloud ibex]

i don't think yharim being basically a withered piss baby husk would work as well as gwyn

[gray tulip]

elaborate on that, if you would. i do agree, but i don't know why i agree

[dusk laurel]

I mean it has been confirmed he is still in his prime, so it'd be a really big let down if the fight isn't a challenge

Also the decade-long wait for him to be added

[cloud ibex]

i can't really put it into words but like

with yharim much more actively trying to push you to become like him, it would be underwhelming if he wasn't an absolute force of nature when you meet him in-game

gwyn is more of a distant legendary figure you hear countless stories about, which makes it more of a gut punch how far he's fallen by the time you reach him

i think a big part of it is also that calamity's tone doesn't entirely match dark souls'

[gray tulip]

you're right

its also partially an aspect, i think, that if you've been paying attention, gwyn's not a role model

[cloud ibex]

i mean

yharim isn't either

[gray tulip]

i know but its like

[eager bluff]

yharim isnt but hes trying to be

[gray tulip]

gwyn is actively a detriment whose entire goal was flawed

yharim is painted much more as a "fallen angel" type, i think

[cloud ibex]

he wants to paint himself that way

[split mortar]

He paints himself in that light

He never was

[cloud ibex]

in reality he was never as good as he claims he was

[eager bluff]

look at sprimes lore item

[cloud ibex]

he killed evil gods, yes, but also good ones

[mighty zenith]

he killed gods, some just happened to be evil

thats the best way to put it i think

[cloud ibex]

he thinks the killing of dragons was unforgiveable, even when some of them deserved it

his world view is far too black and white

[eager bluff]

he casually mentions that he had entire portions of his army dedicated to burning civilians alive and forgets about it in the same sentence

[gray tulip]

no yallre right

yallre definitely right here

ive fallen for the propaganda

[cloud ibex]

it's a common headcanon here that the whole reason he doesn't explain the hallow at all (and the reason it's sealed away in the first place) is that it breaks the narrative that all the gods were evil

the evil biomes could have been something he'd point to to strengthen his point, but that wouldn't work for the sunshine n rainbows n all things good biome

[cloud ibex]

this tends to happen

pretty reasonable considering one of the biggest and by far most accessible sources of lore in-game rn are literally Yharim himself

[gray tulip]

now i will note

if you believe either that "some dragons deserved it" OR "there were parts of yharim's crusades that were good" you are kinda insinuating that the death penalty is a reasonable thing to have

which is pretty common in fantasy!

[eager bluff]

he definitely could have used its danger as a strengthening point but at the same time it would be really hard for him to admit that yeah these gods were at some level good

[pliant ruin]

i love killing people

[cloud ibex]

me too bestie

[mighty zenith]

[cloud ibex]

how it feels to murder people with hatchets and whatnot

[dusk laurel]

[gray tulip]

now i will also note that calamity itself is pretty "killing is bad" all things considered. like you kill very few sentient beings (with calamitas's clone being a really jarring example) and the ones you do are all genocidal or borderline genocidal (yharon, providence) or optional (empress of light) or painted as a bad thing (at least by yharim) (yharon)

most boss kills are automatons, animals, or damage mitigation

[pliant ruin]

killing is bad unless its terrible awful people

yeah that checks out

or. fish snake things. i guess.

[gray tulip]

its closer to "killing is bad unless there is literally no other option to stop a genocide"

[pliant ruin]

poor scoogs

[pliant ruin]

i mean id say perpetuating genocide counts as being a terrible awful person

[gray tulip]

yes but its more specific

otherwise the tax collector would be a boss

[eager bluff]

well

[pliant ruin]

REAL

[eager bluff]

theres a reason he was stuck in hell

[pliant ruin]

LMAO

[dusk laurel]

Based alert?

[eager bluff]

theres a reason even the people that lived in literal hell hated the tax collector

[leaden bridge]

Optionality isn't a very strong argument though because nearly everything is optional for reasons completely disconnected to narrative

If anything calamity is very much Killing Is Fucking Awesome because that's the only thing you can really do

[split mortar]

Except that those that dont deserve killing you dont kill
-# deus and scal

[leaden bridge]

Yet you still kill a bunch of animals and break into the home, loot and destroy the idol of a bunch of guys who are just Existing

[split mortar]

Animals can attack you because they try eating you

Arent most bosses us getting jumped?

[leaden bridge]

Sure most of those are optional but like so is wof
And even if we went to purely intentional optionality that brings up questions over things like Ravager and Cryogen who r very much optional despite not being great

[wheat walrus]

The Terrarian Is You

The mods tried to take this from us but it's true the Terrarian is you indeed

[leaden bridge]

We're very aware omni not that we really think that's very important here

Terrarian is whoever we want but that character still does things that are imposed to us by the gameplay design and aren't up to our choice, irrelevant of whatever oc lore we write for them

[wheat walrus]

I'm saying this because that determines whether you see killing as bad stinky or good funny

[split mortar]

Theres also the option of

The terrarian just not coming across said boss like ravager kr cryogen

[wheat walrus]

You can be a killing is fucking awesome person, a lot of people are because videogames allow us to do that without harming anyone that actually exists, you can be a pacifist as well, it doesn't rly matter

[leaden bridge]

Oh well yeah sure but since this is about what Calamity itself messages that's not the point we think

[wheat walrus]

I guess

[leaden bridge]

Like yes a lot of games are Killing is Fucking Awesome in a way that isn't truly problematic nor precisely deep but that's precisely why we question Pope's conclusion that Calamity isn't

[leaden bridge]

Like if we have to take the whole Morality of calamity's lore seriously we also need to question what calamity itself messages on the subject of whether the death penalty is justified

[leaden bridge]

, which

[leaden bridge]

()

[wheat walrus]

Calamity, specifically lore, messages uhh

Nothing is eternal (dragons)
Don't try to bring back ancient things as they died out for a reason (crusade trying to wipe out what's new to bring back what's old)
And if you do, maybe don't do that in such a terrible manner while also showing clear biases (Yharim killing anything that goes against him, trying to make himself a saint but actually being way worse than who he goes against)

At the end of the day, it's all up to interpretation, people genuinely consider this very little; you're reading stories, not just a pure complete set of unmoving facts, but anyways this is how I view the story

[leaden bridge]

We'd disagree on the idea that fictional histories aren't a set of unmoving facts (although definitely not always complete) actually but outside of that you're fairly correct

[wheat walrus]

When I said that, I pointed out that there's ways to interpret stories and their messages and some people might see it differently than others

[leaden bridge]

ah! Sure

(although like, that's the thing, facts are interpretable)

[wheat walrus]

PopeVal sees the story as quite "killing is bad", for the reasons they listed and how they see that; you see the story as "killing is awesome", for the reasons you listed and how you see them

There can be arguments made towards each of the 2, but I won't say either are just truly wrong ways of viewing it they're just coming from different views of the story

Me after having the 31octillionth powerscaling argument and achieving Nirvana and realizing that the Terrarian truly is me (im high outer at lowball)

[leaden bridge]

true?

[wheat walrus]

Yep

[leaden bridge]

And sir doom twitter account manager is right but they also aren't

[wheat walrus]

Yep, I truly am the Terrarian

[split mortar]

iirc the terrarian can also just, not fight the bosses

Just stop pre boss and be that, a local hero protecting some towns

[pastel gazelle]

the discussion of the level of the player agency and the extent to which their decisions are their own, versus being shaped or encouraged or controlled by the artifice of the game, is fascinating and also mishandled more often than not.

[wheat walrus]

I am also the Monster Hunter and yes I killed that Nightshade Paolumu that is now my shoes cause fuck that guy sleep aoe while flying should be illegal

[leaden bridge]

If a choose your story book lets us choose a chapter where you go and kill everyone and its framed as morally good you can criticize that

[gray tulip]

i think calamity's messaging on killing is very much anti-death penalty and very much "killing is bad" but by necessity i think theres a message that killing is required occasionally.
Because you are literally required to kill living things to progress in the game. There is no path of progression in which you don't kill providence, for example. The argument to be made here is that you're kind of the villain in calamity's story, disrupting the world just to become another yharim in the end, but i raise the counterargument that providence is a genocidal maniac whose too powerful to simply imprison so you do kind of need to kill her!
I think in total the message is "Killing is bad, but pacifism is equally flawed"

[latent flower]

i think this is kinda an aspect of the player having no lore of their own

[leaden bridge]

Also more applied to the message itself content that exists is worth critique even if optional

[latent flower]

the only lore is what you choose to do with the terrarian

[wheat walrus]

Yes

[manic coral]

wow an actual discussion here

[latent flower]

its like undertale's whole thing

[leaden bridge]

the original guy the message was replying to just disliked the existence of an option just because but doesn't mean they would be inherently wrong if they thought the inclusion of that option was a bad idea

[wheat walrus]

Yes this time it is all solved by saying Terrarian Is You give us img perms back filthy Calamity Government!!!

[manic coral]

hold on i need to backread now

[latent flower]

i think the most correct answer in terraria is you kinda have to ignore everything you as the terrarian do and instead only look at the actual lore

in which it does feel like killing is bad

but that's still too general

[leaden bridge]

So yeah! You control the buttons you press but also why is there a button i can press to kill children

[latent flower]

bc terraria is sandbox game

[gray tulip]

pure pacifists when they took the moral highground during the genocide of a billion trillion people by not killing the genocider when they had the chance

[latent flower]

and calamity is trying to tell a concrete story in a sandbox game

so the player is ignored

[wheat walrus]

well I can do that in real life, but also I will face consequences from doing that, heavy ones, but in real life I'm also not capable of becoming far far stronger than nearly any living being to have ever existed and becoming the terraria equivalent of a walking nuke, but also idk

[manic coral]

i think all of you are wrong, but also, i'm not really gonna say why or elaborate on why becuase i feel that is something better communicated by actually writing about this stuff more

[gray tulip]

thats valid, but notably we shouldn't just give up this discussion because the writer said we're wrong

[latent flower]

you're wrong because i said so

[manic coral]

i mean yeah duh

[wheat walrus]

imagine if this message didn't elaborate past "wrong" that'd be so funny

[manic coral]

thats part of the reoasn i'm not saying why

[leaden bridge]

We don't think the player should get concrete anything anyways but we definitely think that calamity's message gets muddied because terraria is a power fantasy where you go and kill people

[latent flower]

this is true

calamity as a story is just inherently less effective because it's a terraria mod

[manic coral]

eh. maybe it's sjut attatchment, but i think it would be weaker on its own, to be honest

[gray tulip]

it doesn't matter how many times tolkien says "lord of the rings isn't about real life war" when it so so so obviously is about real life war

[manic coral]

i enjoy terraria's weirdness and working with it

it adds a layer of uniqueness to it

[gray tulip]

i agree with that

[wheat walrus]

terrari

ferrari

[latent flower]

well yes but terraria is also quite limiting

[gray tulip]

i mean. so is every medium, yeah?

[manic coral]

having to work with weird stuff has produced interesting resuls i haven't seen in another things

[leaden bridge]

We don't think terraria is really that limiting

[latent flower]

yes but every story is best suited for a certain medium

[gray tulip]

valid point

[leaden bridge]

We think you just need to remember gameplay is the main device through which stories should be told in videogames

Well, Should is a loaded word

[latent flower]

yeah but gameplay depends on the game

[leaden bridge]

But you get what we mean hopefully

[gray tulip]

i stand by my interpretation of calamity but also the story literally isn't done yet so my interpretation is a living document

[manic coral]

i will say it's a little demotivating to try to do that when it's almost entirely ignore, or when it's not, never past a surface level

[latent flower]

if your story's message is "killing is bad" and your game is like ultrakill then maybe you need to rethink the gameplay

but i think calamity's message is more nuanced then just killing is bad

[leaden bridge]

Or the story! That's probably less work

[latent flower]

true but that just depends on if the story or the gameplay is more important to the creator :p

[leaden bridge]

Then again games where you kill are very good to explore the fact that killing is bad, you just Need to communicate that through gameplay and you know

[latent flower]

yeah

[leaden bridge]

Specs Op: The Line as people Say

[spare pier]

Any story that in any way uses fighting as a tool is a lot more nuanced than it may seem

[gray tulip]

also i kinda don't think "killing is bad" or "killing is necessary" is a core part of what calamity is trying to say. it's saying that whether it likes it or not, but its not a focus as much as the theme of "power corrupts" and "stagnation causes rot"

[latent flower]

the issue isn't killing, the issue is the killing has no weight on the game or the story

[latent flower]

this is ture!!

cal definitely isn't just "killing is bad"

if so then like. the terrarian would just be bad

[manic coral]

"killing is bad" is not the point i write calamity in mind with. like, yeha, ultimately, murder is bad, but like, if you have to kill in self-defense agaisnt something that jsut wants to do the same to you, i don't think that makes you a worse person. but like. i feel like that's a pretty simple and underwhelming point to make. ultimately, it's not at all a focus

[latent flower]

murder is bad

usually

[split mortar]

Genocide os bad

[wheat walrus]

anyways the terrarian is multiverse level because of aotc, xeroc and nameless deity are the same beings from different universes and they would kiss eachother if they traveled across their universes, my favorite monster hunter monster beats your favorite calamity boss, the terrarian is you, sepulcher is literally devourer of gods it's canon, yharim was being literal in cynosure our power is infinite, vanilla terraria has actually deep lore, yharim is actually in the right, he's the fallen hero, xeroc is the evilest character and all gods are terrible, yharim hates potato pizza, calamitas is sad depressed she didn't do anything wrong, yharim didn't make a dragonsona

[latent flower]

i was gonna say murder is different from killing but i think 99% of killing is murder

i just forgot what murder actually meant

[manic coral]

i like writing stories with points many other stories come to in mind that maybe dont cover some aspects or aftereffects of said points.

i'm actually going to talk about my other project a little

[leaden bridge]

Then again that game's conclusion also has a narrative element we don't really like here and it's the "well stop playing then" dilemma, we think it's invalid frankly, because it's a game and its purpose to be played? We'd probably be more lax about that if it was a more artistic experimental project rather than a full priced shooter

[gray tulip]

every story says a trillion things, but the author typically only wants to say a few dozen at most. writing is a beast in the forest, and while when sufficiently skilled, you can get it to go where you want, its still gonna knock into a dozen trees on the way there

[manic coral]

sinc ei'm more open to the "point" i've been writing that in mind with while making it

[latent flower]

idk if every story needs to have an explicit point but messages and themes are very important for a coherent story

[manic coral]

like, a super common conclusion of stories about "does anything matter in the grand scheme of things" is "no, but that means anything you want to matter can matter to you". it's not a bad message by any means, it jsut feels... done a lot without thinking much of too much past it?

so something i instead go for is

[latent flower]

and if you have those then the ppl that experience ur story are gonna use it to form their own points

[leaden bridge]

wdk if explicit but all stories have a point its bundled in with the concept of narrative

[untold oracle]

🔥 ✍️

[wheat walrus]

yep

xeroc x nameless xeroc ship guys trust

[manic coral]

"ok. if anything you want to matter cna matter to you, they why shouldn't you just be self-centered? if everything matters equally, why should you still try to be a good person?"

[latent flower]

kinda but who cares abt the point in the end

the experience is most important

[leaden bridge]

even if that point is silly or minor or shallow or misguided or wrong

[latent flower]

the point is just drawn from that

[wheat walrus]

also my goated bird wyvern yian garuga would solo

[latent flower]

the point is secondary

[manic coral]

also yeah ever if stories aren't written explicitly or even itnetionally with points or themes or messages

[leaden bridge]

would it solo aoe

[manic coral]

people will still find them

[latent flower]

yse

!!

[leaden bridge]

this is a trick question because only we know the extent to aoe's power hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahah

[latent flower]

people are cool like that

[manic coral]

plus thematic consistency helps tie stories together

[latent flower]

mhm

[latent flower]

that's what i meant here

[wheat walrus]

yian garuga will destroy aoe because yian garuga will scream at it with powerful and make it die

!

[gray tulip]

i like that part of the calamitas bossfight where DM DOKURO's "Stained, Brutal Calamity" cut out and calamitas looked at the player and said "Killing is bad >:(" and thats the moral of calamity and thats all its about and thats everything

[split mortar]

Base macao

[leaden bridge]

this is likelier to work than you'd think

[wheat walrus]

base maccao is transcendental

we didn't create it, it created us to create its fictional form cause it was bored

[spare pier]

It's comically hard to find a story I don't think has a message behind, even if it's a silly one

[latent flower]

isn't macao a country

[wheat walrus]

maccao

monster hunter

my beloved ❤️

[dusk laurel]

Macau the chinese city state

[leaden bridge]

well obviosuly

[gray tulip]

the writer of a story bleeds their thoughts and feelings and beliefs into that story. It's a part of writing that is impossible to get rid of if your story has any form of complexity.

[manic coral]

this is also where "all art is political" comes from. which some people seem to thing means that all art has political messaging in it.

[gray tulip]

unless your story is "A went to B's House" (which i would argue isn't a story), you're gonna slip up and have a message in there

[latent flower]

i think stories in video games r interesting

[wheat walrus]

anyways calamity mod addon that adds 10000 layers of powercreep progression ontop of calamity and all its addons to emulate the best thing in the world Monster Hunter Frontier

[manic coral]

but it's more a statment about

[leaden bridge]

this is real omni

[manic coral]

"art is a reflection of the society it came from"

[leaden bridge]

this exists

[latent flower]

when i think of a story in a game id usually prioritize the experience of playing and being immersed in the game world

and then the story is secondary

[wheat walrus]

yes let's do it even on top of all the other addons I said :3

wait till calamity is finished too and add like

everything

[latent flower]

any points and messages or whatever just aid the experience

[gray tulip]

i agree celeri. the best games are the ones that marry story and gameplay together really tightly

[leaden bridge]

well that's going to take a while

you can probably release 3 mh games meanwhile

[wheat walrus]

also shit like Super Zenith Peerless Yharim as super duper endgame things to make the og guys keep up with the powercreep

[spring helm]

society

[latent flower]

but i think there's different outlooks on how you'd do a storygame

that's why it's cool

[manic coral]

what stories are popular, made, represented, or even allowed, speaks about the soceity it came from

hence

yeah

[split mortar]

Undying flame providence when

[latent flower]

you can make a game that is entirely devoted to making the story as effective as possible

[manic coral]

all art is political

becuase ALL art, stuff like that applies to

[latent flower]

games are the most moldable medium

[wheat walrus]

Calamity started before the last gen4 game released, we went through gen5 which was by far the biggest most revolutionary one and now we're at gen6 release basically

[leaden bridge]

do you guys also divide your shit by gens

good lord

[wheat walrus]

forbidden monsters got unforbiddened before Exo-Mechs 💔

[manic coral]

which, sadly, Cal, due to it's nature

will never do amazingly

[wheat walrus]

yea

[latent flower]

signalis is the best 2 ever do it

and don't forget

‼️

[manic coral]

but tbh i will say Cal for me is like

i care a lot about it

but it's also the first BIG project i've written for

[leaden bridge]

Well they shouldn't be different things
As this skeet goes; https://bsky.app/profile/envinyon.bsky.social/post/3lh3u2gpa7c2a (yes we know embeds r off

[wheat walrus]

also I think there should be a sort of division by eras, gen1-2, gen3-4 and gen5 could be divided in separate eras ngl

[manic coral]

it lets me experiment and try things

[leaden bridge]

theyll get forbiddened again before yharim

[manic coral]

it lets me figure out what does and what does it in an envrionment not WITHOUT risk, but without nearly as much risk as working on

like

[split mortar]

Embed fail

[manic coral]

a game you pay for

[wheat walrus]

PLEASE NO

[manic coral]

or me doing this as a job

[latent flower]

i think they inherently can't be different things

[leaden bridge]

well yes thats what we were saying before on cal

[latent flower]

gameplay is the only way to experience the story in a game

that will always weigh on the story itself

[manic coral]

like, i am perfectly aware of some of the fundemental flaws of cal and its story

[latent flower]

and it can be a good weight or a bad weight depending on how it's executed

[wheat walrus]

the fact that we have actual information from devs about what they truly are and how they were made is so cool and allows us to actually understand what they are due to their mysterious existence across the series 🥹

[manic coral]

but i'm not trying to make this some magnum opus or anything

[wheat walrus]

it's a calamity

[latent flower]

tmod is supa cool cause it's a very stress free medium for ppl to goof around

[manic coral]

i want this to be an exprience i can learn from and understand what does and does not work and then i cna take that experience with me to whatever i work on next

[latent flower]

publish stuff that people might play

[wheat walrus]

tmod controversy! I love eating it

[manic coral]

i DO want to work on a full proper game, some day

[spare pier]

No matter what I fuck up I know I will never make something as horrid as Mavuika's design

[latent flower]

idk anything about a controversy and i don't really wanna

[manic coral]

.
i disagree with "stress free"

[spare pier]

That's enough for me

[latent flower]

any controversy is unrelated to the artform itself so keep it away from me

[manic coral]

i have seen the terraira modding community get angry about things people gaslit themselves into thinking happened

[leaden bridge]

hey but have you thought about this cool new mod tthat prioritizes quality over quantity and adds its own content while also expanding vanilla? they currently offer 100 new entities 5000 new items 2534 new particles 98 new dust types 50 new bosses

[wheat walrus]

incredible

[manic coral]

shoutouts to the ND rename stuff

[wheat walrus]

true yea

[leaden bridge]

you know 100 items per boss is one of the best ratios we've ever seen in these and we made it up just now

[latent flower]

anything bad ppl do has nothing to do with tmod and everything to do with bad ppl

[leaden bridge]

the worst part of tmod isn't people being annoying or trolling or whatever it's all those parasocial dokuro fans

[manic coral]

it's really funny how that was all me and everybody still blamed fabsol even though my discussion with luci and the whole situation was handled before fabsol even found out about it

[manic coral]

for once

we agree on something

[leaden bridge]

to be fair fabsol came on spoiler talk to be very vocally negative about it

[manic coral]

[leaden bridge]

it's not hard for people to get the wrong idea

[spare pier]

Still can't get over the new Genshin Boss is just Devourer of Gods btw

[spring helm]

wuh

[dusk laurel]

Guh

[leaden bridge]

Guh

[split mortar]

I find it odd people have problems with the nameless deity name thing

I doubt more then jist you asking for a chsnge happened

[split mortar]

Wuh

[manic coral]

Some people will really be like "I wish he came back please I loved you Dokuro those people were so mean to you :(" any time he's mentioned seemingly not realizing that people being like this about him is part of why the fuck he left in the first place

[leaden bridge]

the way they martirize him makes us wanna shoot ourselves in the head

dokuro who died on the yharim insignia for all our calamity sins

[spring helm]

🙏

[latent flower]

🔥

[dusk laurel]

Absolutely fire

[split mortar]

Dokuro is jesus…

New take

[spare pier]

Giant worm that came from the "eldritch" evil place and may or may not have a higher up too (I don't know about the last one)

[manic coral]

like. basically all the wotg team vastly prefer ND. i who writes Xeroc vastly prefers ND. the rest of the call team prefers ND. ND causes less confusion.

and yeha it was literally me jsut DM'ing Luci like

"You know maybe a rename could be done"

and her being like

"Yeah that's a good idea"

[latent flower]

the best part about nameless deity vs xeroc is that nameless deity lets it have an identity of its own

[manic coral]

discussion happened

ND got ND'd

and awesome situation resolved

[leaden bridge]

we don't care and nd is better but people are hostile for two reasons: 1. they don't like getting corrected and 2. they are kinda Made hostile when you correct them with hostility

[latent flower]

i don't think wotg would've been what is now if nd was xeroc

it wouldn't have been able to be its own thing at all

[leaden bridge]

we don't think it would have mattered

like at all

most people still just go Wow! xeroc

[manic coral]

i think it being its own thing benifited its popularity but not by much

[leaden bridge]

nd is still a better name so we do not care

[manic coral]

just a bit

[spare pier]

And they're also both purple

[gray tulip]

im pretty sure i saw a youtube short calling it xeroc

[dusk laurel]

Dude

What the hell

[spare pier]

It's just hilarious that this guy is

Literally just DoG

[leaden bridge]

every ytber calls it xeroc because its good for Views

[latent flower]

looks kinda like the gold design

[dusk laurel]

It looks like Iban's DoG so much

[latent flower]

with the big gold face

ykwim

[manic coral]

and they're wrong and that disrespects both the wotg team, the cal team, and kind ame personally to an extent. and also just makes things really confusing.

and, like

yeah

[latent flower]

i don't come here often cause i don't know a whole lot ab the lore but there's good discussions

[manic coral]

i will correct people but like

if i mention

"hey it's not xeroc"

and THEN they're rude to me about it

[wheat walrus]

I wanna say my opinion on the whole Xeroc or ND thing so I will :3

Xeroc and ND took their initial root from the same thing, the initial older concept of Xeroc, from the old lore stuff; they grew separate and in their own different directions though

I guess because of that, you could call ND "Xeroc", but that would create confusion, as the name Xeroc wouldn't refer to the current Calamity Xeroc here, Calamity Mod being where the idea and the name originated from, so that would throw off people who aren't well-informed enough. Don't have any proper comparisons here but the closest I'd have is it'd be like calling MH's Safi'jiiva (ofc its mh lol) a Fatalis Variant because both of them take direct root from the idea that developers refer to as "The Dragon", the simple western classical dragon of myths; Calamity's Xeroc and WotG's ND take the same original root but do obviously very different things with them, Calamity's Xeroc is the original one, so calling Nameless Deity "Xeroc" would be a bit of a disservice to it, and in the end also a disservice to itself

I do understand that correcting can be an annoying thing, especially since a lot of people in the community love to do it in the nerdy reddit user way, but I wanted to say my take on the comparisons and also what I've seen being said about the 2 of em

[latent flower]

youtubers don't care cause xeroc gets views

[leaden bridge]

we don't think it's that confusing and people have Self Selected through Natural Social Evolution to call him nameless 99% of the time which is why over at wotg we do not care at all and don't ever correct anyone )not that we need to)

[manic coral]

i think it's confusing to have two xerocs who are entirely different characters in basically every possible way

[leaden bridge]

like people just don't care and that's why they're so hostile when corrected they don't give a shit lol

its why we think the rename didn't really matter eitherway

[latent flower]

most normal people will call him nameless either without or after being corrected because it has no downside and the upside of people not getting mad
if ur a youtuber calling him nameless has a downside and that's just kinda how it is

[leaden bridge]

we imagine the people that blame fabsol are also just riffing off all the stuff he said back then being very hostile over something that again most people dont care about

[manic coral]

yeah which is super

...fun

[latent flower]

we could try stage a youtube revolution and make it a huge deal to call him nameless all the time but we're outnumbered by youtube viewers that will click way more often if the youtuber says xeroc

[manic coral]

yeha i will say when people get mad about it and then blame fabsol, my first thing i have to say about it is like

"ok first off if you're gonan blame anybody at least blame the right person. being, me."

like i dont care if you get upset with me about it for soem reason but don't go shoving blame on random people who weren't even involved with the situation

[leaden bridge]

well we just can't blame people for thinking that because how are they gonna know it's not fault of the guy who went and made a huge buzz about it publicly

[wheat walrus]

anyways hey calamity mod discord moderators that may witness this, wrath of the gods is not calamity mod lore it's very offtopic, give us img rights back pls 🥺

[manic coral]

i make WAY bigger of a buzz about it publically than fabsol does

[latent flower]

i do notice people mistakenly equate "calamity" / "caldevs" with "fabsol" quite often

[dusk laurel]

Most people only know Fabsol as a dev

[latent flower]

fabsol has made quite a name for himself as calamity guy it seems

[leaden bridge]

maybe cei but to be fair: who the fuck knows anyone but fabsol

[manic coral]

you'd be suprised actually

[wheat walrus]

and dokuro!

[spare pier]

Me and Cei are way more vocal about the conflation between ND and Xeroc than Fab, he just had that one day where he ranted about it in CST

[leaden bridge]

and like luc because she made that one boss you guys might now about

called like, You or something

its a mirror fight

[wheat walrus]

the terrarian

is you!

[manic coral]

it's funny how often i've gotten recognized

though it does make sense

i am one of the msot vocal devs

[leaden bridge]

well yeah, fab's rants have inherently more spread because he's fabsol nothing really weird about that

[latent flower]

i haven't heard about luc much before now

wotg maker i think

[split mortar]

THE TERRARIAN IS YOU!!!

[wheat walrus]

YES

[dusk laurel]

Explodes you both with my mind

[wheat walrus]

give us img perms back or ill aotc everyone's houses

[leaden bridge]

also luc made this niche small mod called infernum

you guuys may know it

[latent flower]

OH

crazy

[dusk laurel]

[latent flower]

did not know thajt

[leaden bridge]

just a small little mod really that does nothing too important

theres rumors that Infernum 2 will release soon.,.,.

[dusk laurel]

: hognar :

How do these even spread

[leaden bridge]

how does waht

[dusk laurel]

Rumors of inf 2

[leaden bridge]

well you know they jsut do

[wheat walrus]

terrarian

[leaden bridge]

if we had image perms we could drop a #funny #bombshell now but alas people posted moonlord whistler too much

[split mortar]

I believe silksong will come out before that happens

[leaden bridge]

you are very wrong

[latent flower]

infernum 2 is real

[wheat walrus]

it wasn't even about that it was about terrarian is you

[latent flower]

luc told me

!!

[split mortar]

The moonlord poster got banned…

[wheat walrus]

yes we literally assisted that

[leaden bridge]

infernum 2 is 100% real

[latent flower]

if celeri says it's real

[cloud ibex]

[latent flower]

it must be

[leaden bridge]

actally we fully support the image ban now

[latent flower]

hi snout!!

[split mortar]

Dont believe it

[leaden bridge]

there is no image we dislike more than the terrarian is you

[split mortar]

But just warn me

[dusk laurel]

Ban melon gun

[split mortar]

I was the only fucker posting it

[wheat walrus]

broda appearing the instant the topics shifts to this is crazy

[latent flower]

toby fox once said you should always make the terrarian name your name

[wheat walrus]

yea, nuke this user

[leaden bridge]

infernum 2 is 100% real

[dusk laurel]

For the crime of posting that accursed image on average once a day for multiple months

[leaden bridge]

deniers will CRY on the day of its blessed arrival

[cloud ibex]

i've been here the whole convo

i just didn't have anything to add

[wheat walrus]

incredible

[leaden bridge]

that one deniers when god is real image but its infernum 2

[wheat walrus]

calamity discord moderation team when one of their lead admins says yea im admin abusing and lowk just does that 🙏👏❤️❗❣️

[latent flower]

🔥

that's a great message

[wheat walrus]

god of infernum 2

[split mortar]

Truly a moderation of all time

[leaden bridge]

they cant coup the admin

[dusk laurel]

Can't wait for lore discussion

I heard it's releasing in 3 decades

[split mortar]

Lore was discussed

That got tired out

[leaden bridge]

this is true

[dusk laurel]

Yes I know

[leaden bridge]

this is 100% true

this is just the beta

the real lore discussion will arrive in a couple months

[gray tulip]

do the exo mech numbers mean anything

[leaden bridge]

not really

[dusk laurel]

I was lurking the whole time

[latent flower]

i remember they did but i forget what

[gray tulip]

i know the letter next to the X means the soul their base form drops

[dusk laurel]

Just version numbers

[split mortar]

Means the iterations before the current version i believe

[leaden bridge]

they are model numbers and some are skipped based on the number of designs that boss had before its current design

[gray tulip]

i see ok

[tall delta]

this nd xeroc lore is crazy

[wheat walrus]

yep i will keep being offtopic but you cant cause im the online platform group admin and you're not 🗿

[leaden bridge]

anyways avatar of emptiness would solo pocoyo

[gray tulip]

when are XN and XL exo mechs coming

and XFl i guess needs rep too

[leaden bridge]

when we have a night soul boss and a light soul boss and a flight soul boss

[gray tulip]

we already have one of those

[leaden bridge]

on that we should also have XAU using the auric soul of the dragon dragon

[gray tulip]

queen slime

XB coming soon trust guys

[leaden bridge]

XB already exists

look up Losbaf in the fandom wiki

will be added to remix

trust

[dusk laurel]

Those who hekate

[leaden bridge]

we'd like to think they arent real

[dusk laurel]

gfb isn't real

[gray tulip]

im gonna ignore losbaf

[dusk laurel]

it's all just a dream

[wheat walrus]

oooga

[tall delta]

xeroc donkey kong country level

[leaden bridge]

losbaf is better than hekate, its also called losbaf and thats funnier than mechdusa is

terraria humor 💔

[wheat walrus]

who is cooler (interpret this however you want) the my beloved frozen human Archmage Permafrost or my beloved frozen chicken dragon Velkhana from Monster Hunter I thnik they're cool

[spare pier]

Who the fuck is Losbaf

[leaden bridge]

what about mega mammoth dragon (frozen=

[split mortar]

Permafrost, his drip is unmathced

[spare pier]

Oh it's just Fabsol backwards

[leaden bridge]

how does this interact with your hypothethical

[wheat walrus]

but does Permafrost manifest his own drip into being by how cool he is

[wheat walrus]

idk

:1

[dusk laurel]

Can Permafrost manifest ego

[wheat walrus]

it interacts however you want it to!

[leaden bridge]

thats the lame answer omni sorry

[wheat walrus]

your answer is lamer tho

[leaden bridge]

we didn't give one

[wheat walrus]

you answered my answer...

[leaden bridge]

that's not an answer, it's an inclusion

[wheat walrus]

it's still lamer than my answer

[leaden bridge]

it's like adding another rail to the trolley problem

[wheat walrus]

4th february 2025

[leaden bridge]

heartbroken by your mean words

what does that mean

[wheat walrus]

4.5 april 2025

the february one is when we're getting a new mhwilds trailer

[leaden bridge]

is that like day 4 hour 5 or like day four's middle

[wheat walrus]

4.5 april 2025 is a transcendental anomaly

[dusk laurel]

Omnious

[wheat walrus]

everything will happen and nothing will happen

[leaden bridge]

but is that 4 at 5 am or 4 at 12

we need to know

[wheat walrus]

time to explain the joke

[tall delta]

bloody mammoth

[leaden bridge]

you know you could've jsut answered with some insane shit instead

[wheat walrus]

yes

the joke is that it happens in 4.5 april

[split mortar]

The terrarian is you, xeroc not being killable by the terrarian means xeroc is beyond you and thus beyond irl

[dusk laurel]

Those who snow:

❄️

[leaden bridge]

actually

we can kill xeroc with this tool called dragonlens

[wheat walrus]

broda

xeroc got beaten up by a granny at the banik

bank

remember

[leaden bridge]

which means we are outerversal 5+

[split mortar]

Ah yeah true…

Wait

That granny

Isnt you

Still makes sense

[leaden bridge]

also you beat nameless

[wheat walrus]

yes but

[wheat walrus]

can we beat the granny

[split mortar]

Granny
Xeroc
You

[leaden bridge]

we can beat the granny

we could beat a granny

[wheat walrus]

yes!

[leaden bridge]

and since we are the rarrian

[wheat walrus]

therefore we are beyond xeroc

[leaden bridge]

you
granny
xeroc

[wheat walrus]

now's time to find that granny who beat up the xeroc guy

[split mortar]

Oh but what if she can win!?!!

[leaden bridge]

aoe is so awesome because he can travel to other universes do you think about that

[wheat walrus]

she won against Xeroc using the walking stick

from what the guy told us

[leaden bridge]

cant wait for avatar of emptiness to invnade omni's dreams

[split mortar]

So can dog

[leaden bridge]

no he cant

hes fake

the distortion isnt another universe

its just a thing place wdk

[wheat walrus]

I'll probably dream some other stupid thing to beat it up dw

[tall delta]

I thought It was like others places in the universe

[leaden bridge]

no haha aoe comes from another universe haha

[tall delta]

oh true

[leaden bridge]

one that may or may not have different fundamental rules entirely haha

[split mortar]

iirc its functionally a different universe but is just a place in such a strong space distortion that its disconnected from everything else i think

[wheat walrus]

not just that she won while taking him offguard as he was speaking

[leaden bridge]

it sure as hell still has entropy though!

[wheat walrus]

if we aren't offguard, we may parry the stick and beat her in the battle

and therefore outscale xeroc

[split mortar]

Problem, second granny attack

[leaden bridge]

if its a space hole its not a different universe sorry

[cloud ibex]

[wheat walrus]

don't worry we'll fight back

[split mortar]

What

[wheat walrus]

we need to do this to claim that the terrarian can defeat xeroc

[split mortar]

We are just debating lore

[cloud ibex]

arguable

[leaden bridge]

disstoritojn is like, another bubble inside the bubble

while another universe is just a completely different bubble

this is true and objective

[tall delta]

goozma vs mmd vs avatar of emptiness vs andromeda vs exo mech 5

[leaden bridge]

do you know how hard aoe has it to travel to another bubble

[wheat walrus]

me asf in 2085 opening up my terraria calamity mod save file to finally defeat Xeroc after I defeated the real life granny that gatekept us from defeating Xeroc

[leaden bridge]

guy has to spend some time to make a hole big enough to pass a hand through or something

goozma wins because communism

[split mortar]

What

[leaden bridge]

figure it out

[split mortar]

Oh lol

[tall delta]

why doesnt aoe just make a giant drill

seems easier

[leaden bridge]

who says he didnt

its just like

the wall is very hard you know

[dusk laurel]

Actually based

[tall delta]

we should just betray nd and help avatar maybe

[leaden bridge]

if you want to be eaten by the guy ten seconds after

hell it's not like you can actually do anything against either anyways

[wheat walrus]

if you think about it

[leaden bridge]

we are still unsurer xeroc will exist before 2085 but outside of that we have not thought about it

[wheat walrus]

if Noxus will be what gatekeeps us from fighting Xeroc, and the granny from defeating Xeroc then that means the granny is like a stronger being from the distortion

[wheat walrus]

yea 2085 is a lowball

reasonable low end is 67230

[leaden bridge]

so true

[wheat walrus]

reasonable mid end is like never

the rest is alternate universe and higher dimensional shit

[wheat walrus]

anyways this

this confirms that the granny is from the distortion

the distortion is therefore real

know what that means

calamity scales to real life!

[leaden bridge]

what if shes not from the disotortionb ut rather from another, similar place

[split mortar]

:0

[leaden bridge]

distortion 2, for example

[wheat walrus]

what if she created the distortion and then they were stupid and she created distortion 2!

surely she must be that powerful

[leaden bridge]

unsure

we just have to find the granny to be sure

it's time for a hunt

[wheat walrus]

a what

[leaden bridge]

a

[dusk laurel]

a

monster hunt?

[wheat walrus]

yep

[leaden bridge]

if you will

[wheat walrus]

let's hunt some monsters

[split mortar]

Oh we know theyre in the same town or city and thunderx9001

[wheat walrus]

let's do this

they were somewhere in uhh idk

america

[leaden bridge]

thats not particularly helpful right now but yeah sure

just find the ip

thats probably enough

this is still lore related btw

[split mortar]

Yes totally

[leaden bridge]

we know you're reading

[wheat walrus]

im still surprised that some dude with a xeroc tattoo decided to rob a bank and got beaten by a granny with a stick

as of that guy

[leaden bridge]

what if terraria calamity had xenoblades

would yharims sword be a xenoblade

[tall delta]

What if i talk nicely with him

[leaden bridge]

would yharon be the

he doesn't really parse language anymore but you can try

[tall delta]

and offer a galaxy

[leaden bridge]

that's like feeding a crumb to a starving child

it's not only not helpful you look like a massive fucking asshole

[cloud ibex]

no

[leaden bridge]

Too late! The convo is over

[cloud ibex]

good

😊

[tall delta]

I think we should kill xeroc

we could like

throw yharon auric soul into a gun

[gray tulip]

xeroc is planned tmk

[tall delta]

why we wouldnt be able to kill him anyways

[split mortar]

Xeroc is just that guy

[gray tulip]

we absolutely could kill xeroc i don't think there's anything stopping us aside from the one trillion billion power level they have

[split mortar]

Better
Faster
Stronger
More skilled

[dusk laurel]

Because they said so

[split mortar]

And the one trillion billion skill level

[tall delta]

terrarian lore is up to you when you will not kill xeroc.........

[dusk laurel]

You can kill Xeroc

Just not while playing the mod

[split mortar]

Gameplay not reflect lore i guess

[leaden bridge]

🙂

[spare pier]

Fuck you mean "gameplay not reflect lore"

You can't kill Xeroc

You won't be killing Xeroc

[magic epoch]

what if i use elephant killer from old version

[rotund shore]

🍅

[dusk laurel]

Calamari is like a very specific scenario where Xeroc can be killed

[cosmic zenith]

(Yeah, unless you headcanon it, and at that point you're not following the game anyways)

[dusk laurel]

Yeah

[spare pier]

At times I think of rewriting Calamari specifically so people won't think about what I did

[sinful adder]

There is no level of power that anyone in the lore can reach where they can kill Xeroc unless you pull a bunch of crazy shit not possible in game

[spare pier]

Yeah

[cosmic zenith]

Meanwhile me having done jackshit about my OC except think about how they kill Xeroc

And even that is very incomplete

Since Xeroc is meant to be the larger than life threat that takes too long to beat in just one battle with barely any breathing room

[split mortar]

Well considering they had to pull out a lot of shit and tied

Dont think theyre just a regular post yharim terrarian

[cosmic zenith]

Rebecca's OC uses her god powers as a cheat code
My OC is just a dude™️ who wins through sheer force of anime and friendship

That'll be fun to write

Especially since uh

Xeroc is a little bit OP in my portrayal

[rotund shore]

To describe the Terrarian lore I’ve cooked up for mine: girlfailure

[dusk laurel]

Incredible

[split mortar]

To describe the Terrarian lore i have made: ship of theseus times 3

[rotund shore]

Ship of threeseus

Ba dum tss

[cosmic zenith]

Speaking of which I need to draw my canon girlsuccess some time....

[magic epoch]

BOOOOO

[dusk laurel]

Mine is basically a homeless person from New York city

[cosmic zenith]

When does a cabbage become a meteor

My OC's story reeks of Demon Slayer so fucking much

[split mortar]

Idk i aint a space builder

[magic epoch]

Speed

[rotund shore]

With the only real characterization of them from ingame sources being the names they give to some things, I always ended up seeing them as a well meaning idiot

[cosmic zenith]

The attacks literally have forms

There's also Xeroc doing an anime transformation mid-way through the fight

From "Radiance & Shade" to "Sanguine Eclipse"

(I love eclipse symbolism for Xeroc)

[split mortar]

To clarify on this
They have to replace almost all or all of their flesh and bone with wof to avoid god essence infect
Use remnants of moonlords power to rushly make a new soul since they had their soul nuked by ml
Same case for polterghast
Heart shot out by artemis and replaced with draedon heart
Arm incinerated off by scal and gets the calamity accessory as a replacement
Loses their jaw and legs below knees to yharim

[cosmic zenith]

[  ] Final Light Form: Sundering Sunbeam
[  ] Final Shadow Form: Haze of Sunless Void

Sanguine Eclipse
[  ] 1st Form: Vermillion Crescents
[  ] ?? Form: Crepuscular Afterimages
[  ] Final Form: Sun Halo's Gaze```

The forms I've written so far
As you can see, really fucking basic

I'm still not quite sure I should make Xeroc have light and darkness powers

> Sanguine Eclipse, 1st Form: Vermillion Crescents
(From Xeroc's open wounds, several crescent slashes resembling annular eclipses burst outwards in all directions, causing the main character to fall back.)
"Enough! These futile efforts outlast my patience."
"Your misplaced scrutiny is infuriating. [...]```

(There's a lot more to this snippet, but spoilers)

[dusk laurel]

That's just an average day in the city

[split mortar]

What city

[cosmic zenith]

Interesting

[cosmic zenith]

Detroit

[rotund shore]

Horrifying

[dusk laurel]

This is what happens in urban Michigan

[cosmic zenith]

Fuck now I really wanna draw the girlsuccess character but I really don't have the time

[gray tulip]

oh are we talking shop with ocs now

[gray tulip]

insanely cool btw

[latent flower]

the wounds just blowing up is super cool

plus he just sounds so done

awesome xeroc

!!

[cosmic zenith]

Thanks

[real silo]

Holy shit light breathing

Me breathing in the sunset orange like it's orange juice vapour

[pastel gazelle]

I think "sunlight breathing" is called hamon

[cosmic zenith]

Ironically, Sanguine Eclipse forms are somewhat inspired by Sun Breathing and Moon Breathing

Who would've guessed right

[light linden]

hey stip can I ask a lore question?

[pastel gazelle]

Unrelatedly... what if cryonic was like magic pykrete?

[cosmic zenith]

Sure

[light linden]

actually now that I think about it

it's not a lore question

nvm sorry

[cosmic zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/eyebrow-raise-what-wait-the-gif-25666372

[light linden]

I was gonna ask if we'll ever know the first dragon fovos attacked

but that ain't much of a lore question

[dusk laurel]

Which is vetrasyl iirc

[cosmic zenith]

(Yeah)

[light linden]

oh

thanks

[cosmic zenith]

You won't just know that, but also read about it happening!

Someday™️

No problem!

[light linden]

also random thing

I wonder what type of alcohol chrysadia made

[cosmic zenith]

Interesting question

[light linden]

I've asked that about literally every civilization in calamity lmao

[cosmic zenith]

I assume they'd like wine

[light linden]

I still wonder if Illmerians made wine out of sea grapes

no idea if you even can

but it's still funny to think about

[frigid sage]

What are sea grapes?

[light linden]

1 sec

[dusk laurel]

Clearly with Tainted Cloudberries

[light linden]

basically

they're a type of algae that look like grapes when fully grown

some people eat them

[frigid sage]

Ah

Sounds uh

Fine I guess

[light linden]

I've heard they vaguely taste like fish and umani

[frigid sage]

Huh

Neat

[sinful adder]

they're a giant single celled organism

its weird

[frigid sage]

How?

[sinful adder]

cells can just get big

[frigid sage]

Oh

[sinful adder]

there's nothing fundamentally stopping them

[cosmic zenith]

For a moment I was thinking "what kind of Ancient Greece alcoholic beverage existed, and does it match Chrysadia's conservational view on agriculture and resource management?"

[sinful adder]

the largest human cell (egg cells) are visible to the naked eye

[frigid sage]

Yeah

[cosmic zenith]

It's not like there's a God of Wine among the Twelve Olympians riiiiight

[frigid sage]

Makes sense

[light linden]

wine and ale iirc

[sinful adder]

a lot of wine

they had a god of wine and pleasure after all

[frigid sage]

They drank more wine then water probably

[light linden]

ale was only at the borders of it iirc

[cosmic zenith]

Speaking of wine

[light linden]

iirc there weren't any other types of alcohol at that time

[cosmic zenith]

I can get how people could have discovered wine

But how the fuck did they discover cheese

It's not just "stale my ass, it's going inside my belly"

[sinful adder]

They discovered milk, and then butter I would guess?

Idk

[frigid sage]

“I will put milk in a storage, leave it for a month and then I’m gonna eat it”

[light linden]

stuff like gin, whiskey, and mezcal was only discovered after christopher columbus did his thing

[cosmic zenith]

Were people toying with supposedly inedible foods/drinks to see what they could cook/brew?

[light linden]

I mean

[sinful adder]

They would have just observed that leaving milk somewhere for a while makes it coagulate sometimes, and sometimes eating those things doesn't make you sick

[cosmic zenith]

https://tenor.com/view/let-her-cook-witch-frieren-frieren-beyond-journey's-end-sousou-no-frieren-gif-16940336511222974389

[light linden]

that IS how gin was discovered

and beer was supposedly discovered by someone being lazy

[sinful adder]

You can discover a surprising amount of things this way

[cosmic zenith]

Yeah, true

[sinful adder]

Actually, they probably did the same thing they did to make alcohol, but to milk

[frigid sage]

Laziness led to invention

[sinful adder]

Or tried a variation of one of those processes

[light linden]

also from what I know

cheese was likely made on accident

[frigid sage]

Makes sense

[light linden]

my money is that someone forgot where they stored their milk

[light linden]

iirc it was made by an alchemist messing around some kind of berry

also I just thought about something

y'all know how there's some foods that two nearby countries always fight over the correct way to make it?

considering chrysadia was a chain of islands do y'all think a similar thing happened?

[cosmic zenith]

Maybe they'd develop rivaling techniques over time

They have the same ethnical origin so early on there wouldn't be many discrepancies

[light linden]

I mean

prolly but also I have seen stores get into rivalries that spiral into both going bankrupt over how best to season chicken

[dusk laurel]

The consequences of capitalism

[pastel gazelle]

...maybe not wine, per se, but if it has any form of sugar or starch, you can make alcohol out of it. You can make alcohol out of horse milk.

(or cow's milk with added sugars, nowadays, but traditionally, horse's milk.)

[leaden bridge]

It's generally believed cheese was discovered when merchants would transport milk around in leather bags

[pastel gazelle]

...it would be really cool and make a lot of sense if Cryonic was a magical version of pykrete. Is there anything anywhere that strictly calls it a "metal"? Because I suspect it is, in fact, canonically a metal or magical alloy of some kind...

Pykrete is just really cool in general okay.

[sinful adder]

It's just frozen wet sawdust! It's not automatically great at everything

Cryonic is a metal I'm pretty sure

[pastel gazelle]

Not everything but it's still neater than it has any right to be.

[sinful adder]

Ok fair but like

It melts

Magic metal makes more sense

[pastel gazelle]

Hence the "magic" part, since cryonic was invented by Permafrost.

Cryo slime bestiary implies that it's solidified cold magic which is... neat but I'm not sure if it makes sense?

Slimes enchanted by the Archmage, as a host to crystallize the frozen power of the tundra into a magical metal.

Regrettably it is officially a metal. But it being pykrete, or something pykrete-like, works fine for all of its recipes except for the life alloy, maybe the swords, and the lance and arrows? I don't know how well it can hold an edge or point, but it would work fine for magical stuff, armor, or anything that requires a blunt impact. And it arguably makes more sense for the frostcrush valari because I don't think those usually use metal... plus the fact that the valari is made in an ice machine rather than at an anvil.

...but then it'd make sense to do everything with them in either an ice machine or some kind of "ice machine+" like the statigel refiner is for the solidifier and that's probably cruft.

[dusk laurel]

I mean life alloy already won't work anymore when Perennial becomes a tree bark rather than a metal

[pastel gazelle]

...here's a crazy idea: make cryonic into magical ice and life alloy into magical pykrete.

[sinful adder]

pycrete is literally just like. Half ice, half wood

[pastel gazelle]

sort of, yeah.

[sinful adder]

this is not at all good for anything except construction projects in places that don't need any part to get above freezing

[pastel gazelle]

yes, but it's neat.

[sinful adder]

it is not neat enough to change the whole identity of an existing thing in the mod

[pastel gazelle]

True...

it just... in my head, it made more sense for Permafrost to do something involving ice for his material rather than just the nebulous concept of coldness, and it'd make cryonic feel distinctly different from all the other magical ingts.

[sinful adder]

magic is weird like that

he's doing cold magic

fire magic things aren't made solely of fire

they are objects imbued with firey properties

[pastel gazelle]

True.

We also know it probably isn't a crystal at all:

Plating made out of it has been found to be more durable and resilient than mythril alloy via flexural and tensile testing, followed by destruction attempts.
So we know what kinds of strength it has... which I suppose goes a long way to explaining how you can make a bow and a fishing rod out of it.

[sinful adder]

these are properties that metals have, yes

many metals can be bent and return to their original shape

[pastel gazelle]

It's not just about returning to original shape, it's about not breaking.

And... this might just be me but it sounds like it has high tensile strength relative to other metals.

Moreso than mythril alloy, at least. (I don't know enough about material science to begin to speculate on the details in real life, much less wondering about what mythril would be alloyed with since it's totally fictional...)

[sinful adder]

I do. It does indeed sound like it has higher tensile strength than other metals, so it is something comparable to certain kinds of steel, like the ones used in fencing swords

[pastel gazelle]

Fair enough.

...correct me if I'm wrong, but tensile strength isn't usually the most important kind if you're making armor, correct?

So why did Draedon suggest making armor out of it? Just because it's lighter-weight?

Also, wearing armor made out of a perpetually-cold material seems like it would be unpleasant if you're using it as metalic armor plating, but at the same time, I can totally imagine Draedon not seriously recognizing that flaw.

[sinful adder]

On the contrary, tensile strength means something can be stretched. Imagine making a metal armor you can stretch in, instead of having it need to remain perfectly rigid

Additionally, an armor that magically cools itself is very useful most of the time, imagine how hot and uncomfortable most armor gets in the sunlight!

[light linden]

very.

[pastel gazelle]

Magically cooling itself is one thing. If it's outright cold, that could be another. Of course, you'd probably wear padding underneath anyways.

[light linden]

it gets very hot

[pastel gazelle]

I could see it being very good or very bad. It could really go either way.

[sinful adder]

most armor would be padded anyways. It would be very good in many situations

[boreal crypt]

What is the hallow biome? Like what is the calamity lore behind why it’s there and what it does and stuff?

[sinful adder]

How much do you know about calamity lore already?

@boreal crypt

[boreal crypt]

I know the whole story and a lot about most of the bosses

[sinful adder]

The gods, which became the way they were by consuming the souls of dragons, release their new kind of soul power on death in the form of godly essence. The essence of many slain gods mixed together and some became the corruption and crimson, as yharim implies, but the essence of the benevolent gods became the hallow

Yharim doesn't tell you this directly because it would make him look bad, or at least less good

[crystal pendant]

(his silence about the hallow is curious)

[sinful adder]

I mean. This is an expected thing from such a person

[crystal pendant]

i suppose thats the wrong word youre right

i mean its worth considering not unexpected

i didnt say telling because idk if there will be a lore whisper at some point i feel stupid saying that if so

i guess thats more appropriate tho

sorry to interrupt

[sinful adder]

All good

[boreal crypt]

That makes a lot of sense, I was thinking it came from the gods but I wasn’t sure why it wasn’t like the crimson/couruption, but now, remembering the lore is from Yharims perspective, it makes sense he just left out the hallow biome because it would make him look worse

[pastel gazelle]

I was wrong; I didn't think the hallow was benevolent so much as just... radiant. And some individual gods might have been benevolent.

[sinful adder]

The hallow itself isn't benevolent, but the gods that were killed to make it were

[boreal crypt]

Thats kinda what I was thinking when I asked

[sinful adder]

It's not as directly malevolent as the evil biomes though

[mighty zenith]

yeah, the main difference is a much more pleasant atmosphere

which is why npcs can like it

[pastel gazelle]

I also didn't know if the evil biomes were malevolent, but that's also because I didn't feel like they were sentient enough to qualify for that.

[sinful adder]

They're not entirely sentient, but partially so

[pastel gazelle]

That's fair. ...if I said "they're kind of like an Actual" that would probably mean nothing to you.

[sinful adder]

Correct

[pastel gazelle]

I have managed to nerdsnipe myself into wanting to start something which appeals to 0 people, though! (Analyzing various Calamity factions and character in terms of the stats they'd receive in the TTRPG Chuubo's Marvelous Wish-Granting Engine, if you're wondering.)

[radiant elbow]

Ok its late but I just sort of need a bit of clarification/input from the lore community, permafrost is pretty much calamitas' father figure right? Iirc, he insisted that yharim take her into the army when she was like poor and sad and stuff, and he taught her to hone her magic, and when he left yharim's army and calamitas was sent to kill him, she put him in the cryogen prison to spare him, so he's pretty much her adopted dad right? What do yall think? Also did I mess up/miss any details?

[pliant ruin]

ye

thts p much it

[scenic olive]

Father figure

[split mortar]

Yeah you got it exactly on the dot i think

[cloud ibex]

“Poor and sad” is one way to put it but yeah that’s pretty much it

[trim patrol]

i need... more calamity lore.........

this trip of getting back into calamity after 3+ years has been very amazing, i forgot most of... well, everything. i cant wait to get back into the lore as well! but where do i start

[sinful adder]

The lore was all completely rewritten like two years ago

[split mortar]

^

[sinful adder]

You can read most of it in game or all of it in the lore document in the pins

[split mortar]

you can find all the in game (basically all) lore in the document in the pins

[sinful adder]

Plus there's a bunch of small developer statements here

[trim patrol]

ohhh shoot, sick thanks!

well, i know what i'm doing tomorrow. have a good one

[split mortar]

You have a good day too

[dusk laurel]

Is

Is

Is that a Don profile

[cobalt vapor]

So would supreme calamitas or draedon be closer to yharim?