lore-discussion

[keen dock]

He has to live in desert now cause there’s nothing left, yeah he’s bad for the environment sure but he’s a creature who’s just trying to survive

[pliant ruin]

dune splicers actually out compete it

[fading sun]

I don't think even an "invasive species" is good enough justification

[pliant ruin]

bc theyre actually like

adapted for the desert

while scoog isnt

[hot valve]

Most innocent boss is The Devourer actually

[fading sun]

No invasive animal does its thing outta malice

[keen dock]

Yeah

[ruby heart]

I think the biggest diference between him and aqua tho

[cosmic zenith]

DS is innocent in the sense that it's not deliberately aggressive
It's an animal fighting to survive
But AS is undeniably more "innocent" (ig) since it's a peaceful filter feeder

[ruby heart]

Is desert hunts people

[cosmic zenith]

Yeah

[ruby heart]

And is always angry due to starvation

So its a actual menace to you

[keen dock]

Yeah cause it has no other food source

[fading sun]

Justified

[wheat walrus]

the difference between Seregios in MH4 being in the mountains where it belongs to and Seregios in MH4 invading other environments for uhhh silly reasons (the plague)

[pliant ruin]

DS and AS are both innocent imo, the main thing is that AS was unprovoked

[ruby heart]

It has

[hot valve]

Tbf filter feeders are still eating living organisms

[pliant ruin]

like

[ruby heart]

Stormlions and antlions

[pliant ruin]

with DS it

could be self-defense

[deft vessel]

I think the fight is DS trying to eat you

[pliant ruin]

with AS u just went up to a random guy doing his thing and killed it 💔

[ruby heart]

Well DS can be self defense if you use its

[cosmic zenith]

Innocence is a human concept so it applies mostly to our context

[ruby heart]

Planned enviromental spawn

[faint plank]

add pacifist route to AS 😔

[ruby heart]

That is destroying the eggs in its nest

Then its a queen bee situation

[dusk laurel]

Oh

[pliant ruin]

i more so meant that killing DS could be self defense

[fading sun]

It's like sharks and whales kinda (if sharks were hungry)

[pliant ruin]

since its a predator

[deft vessel]

Its called not fighting it

[ruby heart]

You kill his sons

[keen dock]

Okay well if it’s bad for hunting us then why is it okay to hunt them when to it there’s no difference we’re all just prey and food

[ruby heart]

Yes

[cosmic zenith]

Even vegans technically kill and eat living organisms

[ruby heart]

Its just worse on aqua case

Since you go out of your way to fight it

[pliant ruin]

killing DS could be justified if it attacked u first

[ruby heart]

Aqua is not harmful to you

[pliant ruin]

its not evil

but its still like

a threat

but AS u go out of ur way yeah

[fading sun]

Does DS have a nest?

[dusk laurel]

Will

[ruby heart]

It will

[pliant ruin]

kill the follies though..... wretched beasts

[ruby heart]

Follies are a giant clam situation

Bane to the enviroment

[pliant ruin]

so true

[ruby heart]

Way too much

[deft vessel]

A scrouge

[ruby heart]

It fucks up other creatures

[pliant ruin]

the innocent giant tortoises seeeing as the 50 billion rapidly reproducing hypercarnivore dragons awaken

[cosmic zenith]

In a way it's more morally sound to kill organism the further they are from human existence/experience
It sounds a bit fucked up when you put in like that but I mean it with utmost respect for living creatures

[deft vessel]

Should follies be renamed to jungle scourges

[ruby heart]

Turbo territorialists, agressive and consume all energy sources

But well again

Side optional bosses are a lot more grey

[fading sun]

So if you had to choose between killing a crocodile and a monkey it would be more morally ok to go with the croc

[ruby heart]

You dont need to kill DS

Principally in sunken sea update

Killing it is a choice of yours

Now ML, a mandatory boss is full on nefarious

He is mandatory

[hot valve]

I think what animal is more morally correct to kill would also have factors such as if they are endangered, if they are currently a threat to the public, etc

[fading sun]

Ml is like the evilest mf out there

[keen dock]

I just think the animals of the world like even the dukes eidolon wyrms and follies considering their described as elusive creatures who are super aggressive cause that’s how they survived, then queen bee who’s just existing, the elementals are innocent too minus brim maybe although you can argue she was just pissed about pollution,

[ruby heart]

DoG, Providence, Yharim..

[deft vessel]

A contender

[ruby heart]

There is more evil guys

[fading sun]

Ml gave them a prop up

[keen dock]

The follies are the most justified for death

[fading sun]

There would be no yharim or providence without ml

[ruby heart]

Indeed

[cosmic zenith]

Nature went "fuck there are hordes of Dragons taking over the Jungle... maybe we should put karate skills in their genes"

[ruby heart]

But well

Conquering planets is ml existence basis

[cosmic zenith]

Morality is not really about consequence like that

[fading sun]

Guh??

[dusk laurel]

Wait hwat

[hot valve]

I mean moon lord literally showed up and killed a bunch of people unprompted
There’s nothing telling me he wouldn’t have killed all life on the entire planet (with what little we know) and I think that’s worse than how far the other characters go

[deft vessel]

Wtf dragon of karate

[keen dock]

I mean yeah ML sorta sets the entire plot in motion given that it was him who weakened the dragons and made the vulnerable enough to be usurped entirely

[pliant ruin]

slime god morality

💥

[fading sun]

Good

[ruby heart]

Just like noxus and signus

[dusk laurel]

ML-Distortion relation

[pliant ruin]

slime god is not good

[hot valve]

Is Signus a planet Conquerer

[ruby heart]

Yesish and no

[keen dock]

Idk Signus is weird

[hot valve]

Slime God’s morality is ??? Because we don’t really know

[ruby heart]

Signus is a being like noxus

But not on same power

[fading sun]

Feeding a plantera bulb yharon soup fragments 🔥🔥🔥

[ruby heart]

He conquer through deals and talk

Living devil

[pliant ruin]

slime god's morality is flip a coin and decide

[keen dock]

The only one of DoG’s lads we know anything about is storm weaver

[deft vessel]

He need to do 1 good thing then an evil thing to keep the balance

[hot valve]

No context for if the dragon of gluttony was bad or not

Slime god does keep world balance around which is good

Reason for why we fight very currently unclear

[keen dock]

Like we have breadcrumbs about the other 2

[fading sun]

Just an animal from the distortion

[ruby heart]

Signus is very known

And he is not DoG related

[fading sun]

More or less

[ruby heart]

He is actually upper than DoG

[pliant ruin]

the distortion trio isnt rly associated with dog beyond distortion origin

[ruby heart]

Noxus level being, and work on its own

[hot valve]

Woah what

[ruby heart]

He is sort of the distortion devil

[pliant ruin]

badass

[random mulch]

triangle is spilling all of the beans

[ruby heart]

He does deals and stuff

[cosmic zenith]

More like a Faust of sorts

[hot valve]

I mean I guess DoG is more or less just a puppet

While Signus is its own, free thing

[cosmic zenith]

A Devil would make a deal and break the deal later

[ruby heart]

True

[hot valve]

Apart from the distortion hivemind

[cosmic zenith]

Signus at least keeps to his word

[ruby heart]

He do respect his deals but like

[fading sun]

Bro tried

[ruby heart]

His deals always give him benefits

Its not fair deals

Signus always win

[pliant ruin]

a

what

[deft vessel]

Not these steam ads

[keen dock]

Ceaseless void it the one I still don’t get much cause like where in the mcfuck did he come from

[pliant ruin]

but yeah faustian bargain signus is real

[fading sun]

The house(distortion) always wins

[ruby heart]

Portal ™️

Its just a portal

[keen dock]

Is it even a he, is it even alive

[cosmic zenith]

Nope

[hot valve]

I mean tbh I think being trapped in the distortion is likely a worse fate than losing your arm and leg

[cosmic zenith]

It's a portal to the Distortion

[deft vessel]

They are truely the work of Signus

[hot valve]

I think Signus’ deal with Statis was very fair

[fading sun]

Signus is the creator of all scams

[cosmic zenith]

It seems animate because the Dragon Cult implemented a pretty nifty defense system for it

[keen dock]

Okay so I guess I was on the right track with it more just being a thing rather than a conscious being

[spare pier]

Signus' deals are fair in the same way borrowing money from a bank is fair

[fading sun]

He makes pyramid schemes daily

[ruby heart]

Ye

[hot valve]

They put that there??

[spare pier]

Sure, it's fair on the surface

[fading sun]

Literally IMF loan from monkey Bloons game

[spare pier]

But it's 100% meant to put the bank on a profit and a slip up on your part is catastrophic

[cosmic zenith]

I wouldn't word it like that
But the Dragon Cult protects it, the Dungeon is theirs after all

[fading sun]

Are there any dragon cult enemies in game

Oh right

Cultist I think

[spare pier]

My brother in Christ

[indigo glade]

Lunatic Cultist.

[hot valve]

I assume the defense system it has came with it but I guess the seal being put by the cult makes sense

[dusk laurel]

[indigo glade]

A cult? In THE Dungeon? Who could they be???

[hot valve]

Okay tbf I’m sure Signus has a lot deals that probably suck way more but the 1 shown to us is pretty good tbh

[fading sun]

I had the warlock or smth enemy in mind

[cosmic zenith]

Yeah, the "defense system" is the collection of seals and counterspells the cult placed on it

[deft vessel]

Clearly the dungeon cult

[keen dock]

Perhaps the will and direction behind ceaseless void is from the distortion dimensions own will? Idk I’m speculating but it would also answer the question of who DoG serves

[hot valve]

Huh, neat

[spare pier]

I explained the way Ceaseless Void works to a few people the other day, and I'd say it's really easy to understand how it works just from reading Cosmic Mine's entry

That entry explains how portals as a whole work in Calamity

[dusk laurel]

Isn't that not in the mod yet

[spare pier]

It was meant to be

So I have no qualms with sharing it because it was 100% meant to be in already

[keen dock]

Isn’t that a dev saying this, a person who helps decide what goes into the mod

[indigo glade]

I don't believe it is, because the attack is Revengeance exclusive.

[spare pier]

Iirc it's just that

[hot valve]

Signus is really mysterious because besides storm weaver who broke free, and maybe DoG, it’s the only being in the distortion that is very evidently not hive minded
How and why is completely unknown

[spare pier]

Cosmic Mine had no previous entry

So one had to be made

When Cei was adding in all of the entries, there wasn't one for her to put Cosmic Mine's

And we just forgot to add it later

[fading sun]

Noxus level being words from someone 5 minutes ago

[spare pier]

So, literally

We forgot to add Cosmic Mine's entry

[keen dock]

Even tho we like try to figure answers out I kinda don’t want the actual ones cause once we get an answer that’s it, not more speculation or thinking about the lore or delving into the mod

[dusk laurel]

Yes I know Reb is a dev

[deft vessel]

Calamitous

[keen dock]

Like give us information yes and some answers too but leave plenty of mystery

[hot valve]

Oh they do dw

We have very little of the complete lore

[spare pier]

But yeah the way the Ceaseless Void seal works imo is fairly obvious

[keen dock]

I’m more speaking of things going forward cause not even the mod is complete yet let alone the lore

[spare pier]

You can try and figure it out on your own if you want

[keen dock]

I love that, hence why some questions shouldn’t just be answered, it gives more reason to stick around and savor the mod

[spare pier]

Just, yeah Cosmic Mine's entry is a very important part of the puzzle and it's only in the Lore Doc currently I think

But

[deft vessel]

Just quickly make the cosmic mine update

[spare pier]

Tearing a rift into our world from the distortion takes vast amounts of energy; that is, unless you are a being of both worlds. Signus alone can create these portals with such ease, but even it cannot sustain them for long before the energy used to open them violently disperses.

[cosmic zenith]

Yeah
Though we decide things collectively, and things are only canonized when they go into the game
So our comments are more like hints and previews of what's to come than established canon

[pliant ruin]

honestly signus being "above" DoG is a big ass lore drop and i honestly really like it for plenty of reasons

it's a nice change on the status quo presented by the mod's old lore, makes signus feel significantly more imposing and also makes dog seem like more of a fraud (hooray)

[keen dock]

I just hope the full story doesn’t take too much longer to be finished cause like eventually we’ll get bored of speculating if we’re too starved of content lore wise

[deft vessel]

I just want Signus dialogue now

[spare pier]

I will, however, tell you that Void's final phase is exactly the phenomenon being described here

[split mortar]

Yeah but if we have no info on the topic

Our best bet is the dev statements until proven otherwise

[fading sun]

Fr

[split mortar]

The portal ceasing?

[pliant ruin]

ceased void

[indigo glade]

The final suck?

[fading sun]

Perhaps even the void

[dusk laurel]

Say that again

[cosmic zenith]

Oh, you're getting a lot of content next update
Hopefully it'll keep speculations going for a while

[spare pier]

I hate that you described it like that but yes

[cosmic zenith]

The lore will take a long time to be finished, but it's gonna be much, much bigger by the end of it all

[hot valve]

Ceaseless Void
looks inside
The void ceases

[indigo glade]

...

[random mulch]

what are dark energies even

[hot valve]

Distortion update will change this

[indigo glade]

My intention was pure.

[cosmic zenith]

With regular updates adding stuff

[keen dock]

So would that mean that it was locked up by the cult to keep it stable and only by us going after it do we start to make it unstable and a threat to our life

Damn that’s kinda cool

[fading sun]

Yeah the terrarian evil as hell

No way around it

[dusk laurel]

No, don't send the image

[fading sun]

Don't give me none of that lore up to you

[spare pier]

The funny

[fading sun]

The terrarian is EVIL

[split mortar]

Uhhh

[split mortar]

…

[keen dock]

We definitely can be that’s for sure

[spare pier]

Granted, ngl

[split mortar]

Devs do I have permission to send the image

[pliant ruin]

tjue terrarian is canonically the most evil character ever

no

its wrong

[fading sun]

Fr

[pliant ruin]

the terrarian is evil

[cosmic zenith]

It's a stable portal
Technically, what's destabilizing it is us attacking the seal
When the seal is broken, the portal will return to stability
In the future, it'll be the access point to the Distortion

[pliant ruin]

dont send that image its misinfo

[spare pier]

I kinda want to give Dark Energy a really cryptic entry akin to

[fading sun]

Peak

[spare pier]

Spooky's Jumpscare Mansion stuff

[pliant ruin]

im ngl im just picturing it as

[deft vessel]

The Terrarians lore is most certainly not up to you!

[keen dock]

I don’t like the idea that we play as a character who’s nature is predetermined since it robs us of the feeling that we have choices

[pliant ruin]

monomon archives text from hollow knight

[cosmic zenith]

Yeah, agreed

[indigo glade]

Never send it again without my express permission.

[spare pier]

"Your fear allows me to enter your mind.

Your obligation allows me to control your hands.

Your reason allows me to break your eyes.

Your guilt allows me to loosen your neck.

Your expectation allows me to hide the truth.

Your tendencies have allowed me to make you"

This kinda shit

[dusk laurel]

Peak

[pliant ruin]

-OF-ABSENCE-THIR-ABUNDANCE-SHELL-OUTER-O-INNER-
PLACE-IN-ABSENCE-THIR-VOID-LIQUID-SUBSTANCE-O-
WEAVE-ABSENCE-INNER-O-SHELL-OUTER-THIR-MATER
PEER-CH-VOID-VESSEL-ABSENCE-ALL-OUTER-CONTAIN

[pliant ruin]

Ok that also wroks actually

[cosmic zenith]

Distortion lore entries being Distortion's version of Minecraft enchantment table language until you familiarize yourself with the Distortion

[fading sun]

Is that from hk

[spare pier]

I think this doesn't really convey what I want from Void

[deft vessel]

Make it binary

[spare pier]

This would work as someone in universe talking about it

[keen dock]

Like I’m okay with yharim pushing us forward with hints cause it’s driving us the player to want to progress we are choosing to do so not because we’re so much told but because we as a player wish to progress which is our choice

[fading sun]

Too long

[cosmic zenith]

Yeah

And people get to choose who their character is, what they're like

[fading sun]

But like

You probably kill all the bosses

[hot valve]

Yharim when I epically troll him by fishing for 100 days straight

[indigo glade]

Yes.

[fading sun]

And that's kinda evil

[hot valve]

Killing most bosses is entirely optional

[pliant ruin]

you kill moon lord. what about all the moon people he ruled over :/

youre evil

[fading sun]

Fr

He was the lord of the moon

[keen dock]

Optional bosses are a great example of this, like aquatic scourge is just living, same with the dukes, elementals too, minus brimmy but I think she got pissed about pollution or something

[fading sun]

The moon mourns

[deft vessel]

Yea by killing ML you destroy his domain and auric soul. Wich blows the moon

[hot valve]

Providence not being mandatory feels really odd

[keen dock]

He only became known as moon lord cause that’s where the dragons banished him to

[hot valve]

I assume she eventually will be

[keen dock]

He actually has nothing to do with the moon besides that I think

I might be wrong tho

[split mortar]

All elementals want to spread their domain, brims just includes burning people

Anahita includes drowning people

[fading sun]

I feel like adding more mandatory bosses is the opposite of what calamity has been doing

[hot valve]

There’s a few bosses I feel like you’re really meant to take down and providence is one of those

[split mortar]

They’re removing Ravager giving cores of calamity and the bars so there may be more mandatory at some point

[split mortar]

IIRC

[keen dock]

See like yeah I get that but the elementals were just kinda bright into existence and the fact that there’s so many means that they almost create balance as long as nothing disrupts them

[hot valve]

Yeah ^ that’s basically what I assume she will be eventually

[spare pier]

Yes, we are

[split mortar]

There’s only 5
2 just split themselves into a bajillion bodies

[spare pier]

Ravager dropping all of that is just

Really bleh

[keen dock]

You could argue that we’re driven by the encouragement or yharim to make this choice as a player

[pliant ruin]

correction:

[spare pier]

It both makes no sense and oops, Bosses give you everything you'll ever need!

[pliant ruin]

Ravager is just

Really bleh

[keen dock]

Only 5 left now, remember they were hunter by yharim too following the incineration of his home

[split mortar]

They’re immortal

[spare pier]

Elementals can't die

[split mortar]

Not just silva

[spare pier]

Unless their respective element is entirely wiped out from the face of the planet

[keen dock]

Ohhhhh

So yeah they’re more a force of nature than anything else

[fading sun]

Mandatory dev lore bomb drop

[split mortar]

Single water atom revives anahita mayhapse

[pliant ruin]

i will take my revenge on brimstone elemental

[spare pier]

In a specific case, you'd have to fucking destroy the entire planet

[pliant ruin]

time to wipe out every source of heat from earth

[split mortar]

Brim

I think

[spare pier]

It's been known for a wile

Ok in two specific cases

[deft vessel]

Drinks all the water

[fading sun]

So as long as someone's making campfires or has some brimstone in their pockets brimmys around

[spare pier]

Brimmy and Earth

You can't kill them unless you just destroy the planet

[warm gull]

wtf rebecca isn't a mod anymore this means I can be disruptive and evil in her presence with no consequences

[split mortar]

Earth ele is sand one btw

[pliant ruin]

i miss horse earth fakelemental

can he be a horse again

[fading sun]

Anahita?

[pliant ruin]

it was funny

[fading sun]

Cuz like

Water

Blood

[visual kiln]

did triangle do a lore drop again

[fading sun]

Clouds

[visual kiln]

bc thats awesome

[spare pier]

You can have a planet with no water

[pliant ruin]

ya

i told u in dms

[fading sun]

Oh nvm

[split mortar]

That’s nuke the crust

Not every part

[pliant ruin]

signus 💥

[fading sun]

Clouds are anothe

[visual kiln]

ppl should do that more often

imo

[pliant ruin]

signus just went up my ranking of characters based on this alone

😭

[deft vessel]

Beans were spilled

[keen dock]

Wait is it earth elemental and not sand elemental or is there just an earth elemental we ain’t seen cause I thought silva was a god

[pliant ruin]

sand eles are the earth elemental

[keen dock]

Okay gotcha

[visual kiln]

ngl based

[pliant ruin]

the "earth elemental" as in the caves miniboss is not a true elemental

[visual kiln]

🙏

[split mortar]

Signus is distortion Satan and therefore pure evil beyond provi and yharm

-# this a joke

[visual kiln]

ok so

[deft vessel]

Real

[visual kiln]

hypothetically

this means post-dog signus fight makes sense

therefore

im gay

wait

[dusk laurel]

??

[fading sun]

Nah

[split mortar]

Earth is fake earth ele

Sand is true earth ele

[keen dock]

Same

[spare pier]

Admitedly I'd like to keep that a bit more under wraps but it's pretty whatever, it'd take a billion years for us to get to Distortion and that fact would likely be droped whenever Signus got reworked

[deft vessel]

I feel like its in hirearchy than strenght

[fading sun]

Any kinda devil bargainer is imo isn't that evil

[spare pier]

And it's like, whatever

[visual kiln]

uhh therefore splitting the sentinels up across progression is based

[fading sun]

They're just doing busines

[keen dock]

Just confused me

[visual kiln]

always has been

however

bites

[warm gull]

well signus is still weaker than dog physically

[visual kiln]

can be changed

easily

[pliant ruin]

it would be cool if signus was post dog

[split mortar]

The earth miniboss is a fake made by azafure

Sand elemental is the actual earth elemental

[dusk laurel]

It really would

[pliant ruin]

or even on the asme tier...

[spare pier]

No we're not making Signus be Post DoG

[keen dock]

I’d say for us little community of lore seekers it’s fine cause like how many players of the mod actually come here

[visual kiln]

move signus after dog and he is now stronger

[pliant ruin]

it would be based

[spare pier]

We're even less making Signus and DoG be ON THE SAME TIER

[visual kiln]

y do u prefer keeping this under wraps btw

[split mortar]

Signus appears in multiple places and therefore has a split amount of power

[spare pier]

Because it's cooler to reveal things ingame, we already went over this

[visual kiln]

except like

i dont expect like half of us to be in this community

by the time like the distortion happens

[keen dock]

Isn’t like signus and him making deals is what makes him get involved with DoG

[spare pier]

Not my problem

[pliant ruin]

signus isnt involved with dog at all

as far as we know

and this new lore drops seems to reinforce that

[deft vessel]

Ye I think its that Signus is higher in rank than DoG

[pliant ruin]

bro is above dog

[split mortar]

Nah signus made deal with statis
And is from the distortion

Closest thing there is to a connection

[spare pier]

Just because you'll be past your Calamity phase when we drop those stuff doesn't mean I will spill the entire plot

[hot valve]

Signus and DoG’s current relation is both come from the distortion and that is all

[visual kiln]

i dont expect u to spill the entire plot

[split mortar]

I likely will still be

[keen dock]

Look the devs can release what they want, personally I feel lucky seeing that we’re getting anything from them

[visual kiln]

i just think being rlly concerned ab secrecy is weird imo

like

[fading sun]

Tbh

[visual kiln]

ya i get wanting to keep things secret

[fading sun]

Every community is spoiled

[visual kiln]

twists and stuff r real

plot twists should be secret

[spare pier]

I'm not "really concerned" I literally just want to reveal stuff through the game because it's better

[fading sun]

Any community that can talk to devs at all is blessed

[keen dock]

I’d say we appreciate the lore drop and let it be

[spare pier]

Again, we already went over this, Aza

And my mind has not been changed since then

[keen dock]

I think the speculation is fun and besides who knows if the team even has answers for everything, sometimes a clear answer isn’t as fun as a topic to theorize about

[fading sun]

Tbh

[wheat walrus]

just freeze the planet and replace the rocks with ice smh

[visual kiln]

valid ig

agree to disagree :3

catspin~1

[fading sun]

I feel like something that the lore discussers can savor and theorize around and stuff is far better than 10x that but just solid facts

[keen dock]

We all love the story being told so far otherwise we wouldn’t talk about it so let the devs just do what they’ve been doing and we’ll continue to enjoy it

[deft vessel]

Tbh Cal lore would get an additional star from me if Xeroc was nerfed

[indigo glade]

Let us theorise on the Abyss' formation.

[visual kiln]

what if noxus were the stronger one

[wheat walrus]

weak mindset

[fading sun]

He's got 0 feats already leave him be

[visual kiln]

what if more things were kept vague and unexplained in cal imo

[pliant ruin]

abyss,,,,

pleas

[visual kiln]

like deus and boc and eow and eol and stuff

[deft vessel]

It’d be good if the odds were around 60/40 in favor of Xeroc

[visual kiln]

and yeah the abyss

[dusk laurel]

He nerfed the sun....

[pliant ruin]

i think boc and eow and eol

[visual kiln]

dragon silva water

[pliant ruin]

well

[fading sun]

Guh????

[pliant ruin]

specifically boc and eow

[dusk laurel]

The sun was a lot hotter during the draconic era

[pliant ruin]

are really hard to make vague and interesting bc they really are ust fat corruption/crimson creatures

if anything some more worldbuilding details on them would b nice

even if just tiny things

[split mortar]

Sun super harsh during dragon age

Sun normal when xeroc exists

[pliant ruin]

but abyss and deus being more vague and less restricted on their narrative would be truly ideal...

atleast imo

tho deusi s kinda vague rn

[fading sun]

Wouldn't that be cuz moon lord killed zeratros

[keen dock]

YES this is the point not having clear answers makes the world seem much bigger than us it’s like the fog that clouds the limits of the calamity box, if there was no fog we’d see where the story ends and then that’s it, the fog captivates us to think deeper and enjoy more aspects of the devs work

[spare pier]

I have an explanation written as to why they exist

[fading sun]

Therefore nerfing the sun

Not of xerocs doing

[indigo glade]

Draconic Era was before Moon Lord's invasion.

[fading sun]

Yeah??

[split mortar]

The domain still exists and is even stronger now

And the domain includes shadow so it would weaken both if anything

[spare pier]

And, well, an explanation about another thing too, granted that one is already in the game right now and comes from the really obvious question of

[visual kiln]

i like fog that comes from like intentional mystery

[spare pier]

Ok

[indigo glade]

Why would Zeratros being dead affect the Draconic Era...

[visual kiln]

not just things being incomplete

[wheat walrus]

oh yea was anything loredropped here since I'm reading rn a bit

[spare pier]

What the fuck happened with other dead Gods?

[random mulch]

i dont mind that xeroc's the strongest thing alive

[pliant ruin]

things being incomplete isnt really interesting to me, it just feels, well, incomplete
but things being intentionally left out can be rly cool

[spare pier]

Because it's mathematically impossible that LITERALLY NO GODS EVER DIED during the Deific Era

[deft vessel]

Agreed. It’s just by how much he is

[keen dock]

Yeah true but there’s no helping it being incomplete yet, it’s gonna be this way cause everything is this way until it’s done

[split mortar]

True
But would that amount to much compared to the world wide genocid yharm did

[wheat walrus]

erm achualy it is very posible since they're gods and strong

[indigo glade]

I mean... Not even that... Yharim quite literally states creatures such as EoC existed before the Crusade, and they only appear from a God's dead body.

[spare pier]

But at the same time, there was never a Crimson or Corruption before, if every dead God just made an entire fucking Biome then things would be really bad

[spare pier]

And, yeah

That's already explained ingame

[pliant ruin]

the abyss's entire appeal to me is entirely 💥 by the fact that all the interesting things abt it have really explicit explanations, its one of the few things in current lore that ijust, rly dont like rather than just having some issues with

[keen dock]

I thought the biomes weren’t for individual gods but rather the nature of the gods as a whole

[split mortar]

Killing wof would prob be a world ending event if it was that bad

[split mortar]

It’s made from like many of their corpses (god essence) mixing

[wheat walrus]

oh this is the lore drop thing it seems

[spare pier]

Wdym the Abyss has very explicit explanations?

It has indepth explanations about its ecosystem, yeah

But not about how the fuck it happened

[split mortar]

Jared’s too known imo

[spare pier]

Even Yharim points out its a geological insanity that it exists

[keen dock]

It’s funny actually cause most of that is bestiary logs

[deft vessel]

This is my one nuisance that just annoys me

[pliant ruin]

The explanation about the ecosystem thing is cool

thats neat worldbuilding

its the fact Silva has so much influence over it and the fact eidolon wyrms r draconic offshoots that i greatly dislike tbh

[wheat walrus]

the abyss being unchanged for so long is because of stillwater trust me

[random mulch]

i like that xeroc's extremely strong but isnt malicious or anything

[spare pier]

Silva's influence isn't even mentioned outside of Primordial Wyrm and the general greenery of the place

[keen dock]

Like the silly jellies that remove the acid from the deepest layers thus bringing more life being able to exist

[wheat walrus]

the stillwater made stilltectonicplates around the stillabyss

[spare pier]

If it is mentioned in other entries I genuinely just forgot

[fading sun]

Ok vro

[pliant ruin]

yes

it is

[split mortar]

It’s mentioned that she has allowed things like colossal squid to be so big iirc

[pliant ruin]

colossal squid entry implies she's the reason life is fat down there

[keen dock]

Yeah it has

[pliant ruin]

and in general

abyss just

isn't written in a way that really makes it feel mysterious, imo

[spare pier]

Ok but that one is literally just

"Silva made plants and the animals ate the plants"

[pliant ruin]

eidolon wyrms r a big wasted opportunity for that imo

[keen dock]

Jellies remove acid yes, and silva mages big squid, but why tf is it so deep

[spare pier]

Like, Silva didn't fucking spoonfeed the Colossal Squid

[indigo glade]

An abundance of food will make large animals, that is just a fact.

[indigo glade]

Well, as long as they eat said food. Looking at you, koalas.

[keen dock]

Deep sea gigantism

[fierce pagoda]

why is it bad that the abyss isnt mysterious, i kinda like that its very explained

i dont like to not know stuff

[spare pier]

Her presence there allows animals to grow bigger, yes, but she isn't outright making it. It's a consequence of her merely existing

[fading sun]

Why would it be?

Like how couldn't you know what's happening down ther

If it's been around for so long

[split mortar]

I’m fine with the normal wyrms being offshoots

But jared I would like to be less known

[keen dock]

Yeah she doesn’t fix it all either cause if not for silly jellies it’d still be super acidic towards the bottom

[spare pier]

And unless we just straight up nuked Silva outside of the Abyss, that'd still happen

[fading sun]

And there's tech lying around that allows you to venture it

[spare pier]

Which I'm probably removing btw

[keen dock]

Awwww

[visual kiln]

because its the fucking abyss 💀 deep sea is a titanic source of mystery irl and in most of fiction so imo its kinda sad to see it be so explained

its just silva and dragons there

[spare pier]

I made that entry very hastily and no one really likes that Silva is tied to the preservation of life in the Sulphurous Sea

[visual kiln]

as the explanation for everything

[keen dock]

We still don’t know why it’s so deep tho

[spare pier]

/Abyss

[visual kiln]

no room for theorizing

[pliant ruin]

The entire appeal of the deep sea to me is that it's an unexplored, lowkey eldritch (in real life, even) area that humans have barely any knowledge on

[fading sun]

[pliant ruin]

We comparatively know more about the abyss in the calamity universe than we know about deep sea in real life, atleast that's my stance on it

[split mortar]

Sunken sea will be about as deep pre burn iirc

[fierce pagoda]

i think most of deep sea is just empty

[fading sun]

What about the

[fierce pagoda]

nothing to see down there

[pliant ruin]

And it just makes it alot less interesting

[visual kiln]

ty for this btw

[fading sun]

Laserfish

[spare pier]

Also because I thought that life in the Sulphurous Sea existing without Silva was absolutely insane but

[visual kiln]

the what?

[split mortar]

In sso

[spare pier]

No one else thinks that

[pliant ruin]

It isn't insane because it's

[indigo glade]

What about Laserfish?

[pliant ruin]

a fantasy setting

[keen dock]

Isn’t that why draedon wants to study it

[spare pier]

Yeah but I thought that wasn't enough

[visual kiln]

yeah deus exists

space fauna

[keen dock]

Cause it shouldn’t exist

[fading sun]

Didn't draedon like make them or something

[spare pier]

Space fauna is different

[visual kiln]

space fauna

[indigo glade]

Made fish into cyborgs and put them into the Abyss.

[visual kiln]

u can do whatever bc its fiction

believability's not rlly realism

its self consistency

[fading sun]

Yeah but the fact that draedon was able to PUT something down there means he most likely was able to peep even deeper

[visual kiln]

in the universe of calamity things can simply live in acid

[keen dock]

I say stick with what you wanna write

[spare pier]

Space fauna inherently does not make any sense, but mundane lifeforms on Earth just being capable of withstanding literal poison 24/7 and not going extinct and then getting lethal dosage of radiation on a daily basis and somehow surviving all of it did not feel right for me

But, as I said, no one else cared about that

Nor the public, nor the writers

I was alone on that hill

[visual kiln]

there r lifeforms irl tht can

[spare pier]

So

[fading sun]

What can you do about it

[pliant ruin]

Eidolon wyrms are freaky giant deep sea things with magic powers and one of them is like fucking massive and more powerful than anything else

[spare pier]

An entire fucking ecosystem?

[fierce pagoda]

I guess i just suspended my disbelief a little too much

[indigo glade]

The entry states that the pressure made it impractical to explore, implying that he didn't really have proper machines, such as deep-sea submarines, to explore it with.

[visual kiln]

given a million years of those conditions?

a billion?

[spare pier]

Which is good! If no one raised complains about it, then it's fine

[keen dock]

I say just don’t answer the questions as to what and how things are in space

[pliant ruin]

This is literally the perfect recipe for implementin mystery into the abyss

[visual kiln]

yes i expect things to adapt at some point and make a whole ecosystem

[visual kiln]

real

[spare pier]

2000 years and then like, 40 for the radiation

[visual kiln]

theorizations

add more hooks for theories

[fading sun]

What about the like red poisonous lakes that have fish that are very well adapted to that specific enviroment

[keen dock]

Suspension of disbelief is a good thing cause it means we’re immersed

[deft vessel]

It be interesting if there was another planet with a world soul. And the a Alien Xeroc

[visual kiln]

exactly

[spare pier]

Either way, this argument is irrelevant

[visual kiln]

TRUE

[pliant ruin]

And that entire potential for eidolon wyrms is gone bc their magic and wackiness is explained with THey're Dragons and PW being so powerful is explained with Really Old Dragon + Silva BLessing

[split mortar]

Well jared is a normal organism (still massively strong pre bless I think) so I imagine it makes sense

[fierce pagoda]

Im always thinking like, if we have dragons and shit, and gods roaming around and unexplained magics, then relatively normal things like animals living in acidic waters dont bother me at all.

[keen dock]

If anything the lack of realism about space makes for better questions cause if it followed our understanding of life we’d already know half the answers

[visual kiln]

so true

[wheat walrus]

the "real life can/can't" arguments for fictional stuff are kinda annoying to me

this is fiction, keeping it grounded closer to real life makes it feel cooler, but we should in no way be entirely bounded by it, especially since we're dealing with the same world that has eldritch beings coming from spacetime folds and auric dragons that control the fundamentals of an entire planet

[visual kiln]

also u can do zany things

like

[deft vessel]

Alien Xeroc with Primordial dark

[green bay]

Everyone can, just make a suit out of taylor swift fans to neutralize the acid

[visual kiln]

the space fauna,,,,,, (yes im a deus liker how could u tell)

[indigo glade]

I couldn't tell...

[visual kiln]

true

[spare pier]

To begin with Eidolon Wyrms would need a rename to not be Offshoots btw, otherwise that theory would just soon rise up and be accepted as canon by 99% of the community

[fading sun]

Literally distortion

[deft vessel]

Nah thats Primordial wacky

[spare pier]

Primordial Wyrm needed a powerboost to even function unless we decided to slot it somewhere else in progression. Surprise: there isn't one!

[split mortar]

Just realised pale king being a wyrm means there’s a chance the guy is draconic in hollowknight

[light linden]

I don't think I should get involved here lmao

[fading sun]

Vro

[pliant ruin]

What?

[wheat walrus]

this the argument I always have to bring up to Monster Hunter fans when they talk about monsters doing crazy shit not making sense in real life; it has a basis on real life stuff but it clearly is not real, in MH's case, even fucking starter monsters like Jagras wouldn't exist if we followed real life rules

and if we followed real life rules for actual terraria calamity that gets even worse than it is for the community I already deal with

[green bay]

The mark you get at his old body is his auric soul

[pliant ruin]

Having Wyrm in the name dosen't automatically make it a dragon

[visual kiln]

why would thy need a rename

[pliant ruin]

by that same logic

[spare pier]

Wyrms are dragons

[pliant ruin]

Eidolon wyrms need to be ghosts

[visual kiln]

deus isn't a god

[pliant ruin]

Eidolon means ghost

And yeah deus isn't a god

[visual kiln]

yeah

[pliant ruin]

this is just

thinking too hard abt things

[spare pier]

Wyrms are still dragons

[pliant ruin]

eidolons are still ghosts though.... and EW aren't ghosts

it goes both ways

[fading sun]

Deus is not the same word as god

[pliant ruin]

And even then like... why would a rename be a big deal?

[spare pier]

That'd be like naming a turtle "Jungle Armadillo"

[fading sun]

It separates deus from the real gods cuz it's not the same word

[visual kiln]

a wyrm is a dragon or dragon-like creature

[split mortar]

Deus means god
So why not pull a
“Everyone thinks it is but it actually isn’t” thing again

[fading sun]

It shows that ppl thought of it as one despite it not being one

[visual kiln]

true

[wheat walrus]

wyrm is kinda like limbless dragon thing

[visual kiln]

and wyrm doesnt rlly mean dragon it just means serpent

[split mortar]

So a snake

[pliant ruin]

no bc a armadillo is a real life thing that has a real life meaning while wyrm is a fantasy word u can apply any meaning u want to

[spare pier]

Exactly because using that explanation twice sucks

[wheat walrus]

sort of

besides

[visual kiln]

but also

[wheat walrus]

you do know what Wyrm all returns to

[visual kiln]

deus is literally just god in latin

[wheat walrus]

right?

[deft vessel]

I mean it has bacically become worm dragon

[visual kiln]

deus isn't a god

therefore wyrm can be not a dragon

[spare pier]

Either way I still think Wyrms being a Draconic Offshoot really does not change anything because a creature being magical in Terraria means jack fucking shit

[split mortar]

Our Terrarian sucks at naming things

[pliant ruin]

u guys already made gods nothing like mythological or religious gods, why restrict urself based on (one of the) mythological meanings of the word Wyrm,,,

[wheat walrus]

wait, it was always worms?

[fading sun]

I was kinda supporting that idea

[wheat walrus]

always has been.

[spare pier]

A "magical abyssal creature" in Calamity is literally just "normal abyssal creature"

[visual kiln]

it gives them an explanation and removes a lot of the mystery they have

[pliant ruin]

yah which is why you write them in a way that evokes mystery

PW is like

the best possible opportunity for this

[fading sun]

Auric plantera discussion when

[visual kiln]

true tho

[spare pier]

What does it explain?

[visual kiln]

they come from dragons having kids that dont have auric souls

• PW its just the oldest and has a silva blessing

[split mortar]

Which is why I would prefer jared to be more mysterious but am fine with normal wyrms, causejared is much bigger chance

[visual kiln]

0 room for theorycrafting beyond like

what dragons they came from

[spare pier]

It explains why Wyrms are strong, that's it. What Dragon originated them? How did they adapt to living in such depths? Why choose exactly the Abyss?

[visual kiln]

but also i ask

[wheat walrus]

Reb 1v2ing the sleeper cheeser and azathoth the eldritch divinity from cthulhu mythos over random calamity lore stuff and clashing views on how things should be, gradually moving from one point to another, possibly even another one too maybe idk

[spare pier]

There are still a lot of questions to ask, and many of them are intrinsically tied to what the Abyss is

[fading sun]

Wyrms were the offspring of the uhh hammerhead dragon

[pliant ruin]

only 1 of those is actually meaningful

which is the dragon thing

[visual kiln]

why do those questions matter

[wheat walrus]

not a first time gang

[visual kiln]

like

[spare pier]

Why don't they matter?

[visual kiln]

why would a player think of them

[pliant ruin]

we could also question like, who are cal's parents

[visual kiln]

they're just nuance

[pliant ruin]

^

[visual kiln]

yeah

[pliant ruin]

bvy that logic like

everything in the mod has mystery

bc u could make up a question for everything

[visual kiln]

who're deus's parents

[pliant ruin]

what metal is draedons body made of

[visual kiln]

where did deus evolve from

[split mortar]

Looks like iron

[fading sun]

Draedonium

[spare pier]

But we're not talking about the average player here, we're talking about people who are invested in the story

[visual kiln]

does deus have a gender

[deft vessel]

Draedon ore

[fading sun]

Something like storm weaver

[keen dock]

Look let’s just enjoy the story being told instead of trying to write it ourselves

[spare pier]

And there have been a lot, dumber discussions about theories that matter even less

[visual kiln]

mysteries r how u get ppl hooked into the story tbh

well

[spare pier]

AND THERE ARE MYSTERIES

[pliant ruin]

critiques r a good thing

[visual kiln]

not the only way

[spare pier]

[visual kiln]

but they're a big one

[spare pier]

I literally just told you three things you can try and figure out about the Wyrms

[split mortar]

I would like more for jared but yeah fair

[wheat walrus]

but yea can y'all 3 just settle on not agreeing with how y'all wanna make things like since this seems like it's going back to the whole debate I remember y'all having about how Calamity Lore should and shouldn't be, which all ends up in subjective views and no actual right or wrong, just annoyance at most

[keen dock]

Well yeah that’s feedback that’s different

[fading sun]

Can this chat finally fucking die I wanna go without missing anything 😭

Thanks

[wheat walrus]

not much is being revealed tbh

[visual kiln]

i'll dm u anythig that gets revealed

[fading sun]

A real one fr

[spare pier]

Admitedly he does kinda blend in with the other Wyrms, there isn't really any interesting questions you can asbout him specifically

[visual kiln]

also like

[visual kiln]

the biggest question u could ask ab a wyrm is

[deft vessel]

Ok, but why make Xeroc so absurdly overpower?

[fierce pagoda]

Is it annoying for you lore devs, when the entire fandom takes something non-canon/theory as canon?

[visual kiln]

wtf is a wyrm

and thats already been answered

[wheat walrus]

https://tenor.com/view/gojo-satoru-satoru-gojo-gojo-jujutsu-kaisen-manga-gif-17386688786442927012

[wheat walrus]

worm...

[split mortar]

Because it’s the unmatched power of the sun

[spare pier]

But at the same time I think this is better because leaving out an explanation as to how something can match Calamitas in strength would just fuck shit up

[fierce pagoda]

like when everyone comes to agree on something since is so likely to be true, but in actuality is wrong

[split mortar]

Fovos:

[visual kiln]

the noxus in question

[fierce pagoda]

were getting a fovos exlplanation in sso arent we

[spare pier]

You'll get the answer soon enough

[fierce pagoda]

in the vanilla bestiary rewrites

[visual kiln]

also like

[fierce pagoda]

the pillars will also have lore

[spare pier]

And Noxus is far more deserving of having that status than the Primordial Wyrm, I'm sorry

[deft vessel]

I still dont think there is a good reason

[spare pier]

I'm not going to give PW the "stronger than Calamitas for no discernable reason" status for the sake of mystery

[visual kiln]

pw being that strong just puts the thought of "wtf is the abyss" in ur head

like

why was silva thrown specifically into the abyss

[spare pier]

The Abyss might be mysterious, but it's still natural

Remember that

[visual kiln]

why did xeroc throw terminus into the abyss

[fierce pagoda]

Did Primordial wyrm become strong in-game because the lore writers wanted him to, or did the Lore writers have to fit Primordial wyrm in the lore since he already was post Scal and exo in-game.

[visual kiln]

why r ppl seemingly so certain things thrown into the abyss remain lost forever

[split mortar]

unmatched power of the sun
Second strongest human ever
Strongest dragon ever
Perfect ascension
880 years to gain power

[indigo glade]

Because they're all stupid.

[pliant ruin]

so real

[deft vessel]

Tbh i think Silva had it and dropped it when she got killed

[keen dock]

Like I said it’s like a box that is the calamity universe there are defined points where the story and universe end, fill that box with fog tho then you only see what’s around you, you don’t know that the box has limits, that there’s an end to these things or answers at all, we still see what’s immediately there tho and it’s enough to spark curiosity, that bit we see are the definitive answers we get that only pose more questions

[spare pier]

There is a limit to how much you can push "the Abyss is really mysterious" before it just gets stupid imo

[indigo glade]

I like the idea that Silva just gets thrown into the Abyss every 500 years or so.

[visual kiln]

the word natural is meaningless here imo

u define what the word means

[deft vessel]

It still would be better if he was a bit weaker

[visual kiln]

ur the worldbuilder

[fierce pagoda]

The distortion is far more deserving of being "the mysterious place" than the abyss

like its just deep water bro

[spare pier]

And having a creature that is stronger than the most powerful mage in the history of Terraria just crosses that line

[visual kiln]

why not both

[wheat walrus]

why are we talking as if, even without any non-public information or whatever, Noxus wasn't considered a threat of far greater scale than devourer of gods, to such an extent that that dude may just be 1 among many, as well as how even actual Yharim, without knowing what the distortion is a Noxus still felt like it could threaten everything he knew

[visual kiln]

space is also a mystery

like

fucking ml

arrived randomly

[pliant ruin]

why r we bringing up noxus and distortion into this

[visual kiln]

byeah that

[fierce pagoda]

idk maybe because repeating certain tropes gets boring

[visual kiln]

they're irrelevant here

[fierce pagoda]

i meean you already said space

[spare pier]

Since we're talking about the Abyss, I might as well bring up

[visual kiln]

also i'd think the deep sea is the most deserving of mystery tbh

bc like

[fierce pagoda]

were gonna have Space, distortion and abyss as "the mysterious places" its kinda redundant

[visual kiln]

its the deep sea

irl its less explored than space

100,000 years of human culture and religion have been built around it

[spare pier]

Imagine if randomly there was just a Leviathan in Subnautica that, supposedly, could just destroy the Precursor Cannon

[keen dock]

Thing is that we didn’t care about space until we looked up as saw it, things need a basis on which to build our theories, it has to be defined so we can speculate in the first place so yeah too much mystery isn’t good

[fierce pagoda]

both space and deep sea have one thing in common, and that is that they're empty as shit

[visual kiln]

its defined by being there ingame

[deft vessel]

I mean technically

[visual kiln]

for us to see

[deft vessel]

Its just dead

[split mortar]

Gargantuan?

[spare pier]

Sure, it's mysterious. It makes you ask what the fuck is that thing, it scares you to think about what could be hiding in some forsaken corner of the world

[visual kiln]

and also the context of the rest of the world surrounding it

[spare pier]

But at the same time, it just puts into question what the actual fuck?

[pliant ruin]

This is not the same because a leviathan being able to destroy a precursor cannon would mess up with the entire narrative because the entire plot becomes meaningless since a leviathan can just destroy the precursor cannon
This is not the case with PW because PW is not gonna just jump out of water and kill yharim, it's a self-contained part of the narrative that can realistically afford to be mysterious like that without negatively affecting the rest of the story

[visual kiln]

yes!!

it does!

and thats a good thing actually

[spare pier]

Not in a good way, Aza

Not in a good way

[visual kiln]

how

[pliant ruin]

Why not in a good way

And avoiding the entire

Thing i explained

[keen dock]

I swear this is like the best analogy I can come up with for this, it’s world building 101

[pliant ruin]

where its not bc of the mystery

its bc it makes the plot meaningless

like, focus on why the mystery is a bad thing

[spare pier]

I know and I wasn't even considering that

[visual kiln]

the thing is

thats already done

[deft vessel]

But this Subnautica creature in question exists

[visual kiln]

like all the parts of the box

[pliant ruin]

also yeah it does

its the gargantuan leviathan

its dead yeah

[visual kiln]

are ingame for u to see

[pliant ruin]

but it exists

its it's own self-contained mystery that can afford to be insane bc it can't negatively affect the plot bc its dead

primordial wyrm is quite literally the same scenario bc it cant negatively affect the plot bc its at the bottom of the abyss

[spare pier]

Because it stops being a mystery and just becomes, in my opinion, a cheap way of adding a "myesterious" aspect to the Abyss that just banks on making an utlra powerful creature with no explanation that solely exists for the sake of making the player question why it's so strong with no real answer behind it

[keen dock]

Well yeah but there’s written story outside of it, or at least it’s meant to be that there’s more than we see

[pliant ruin]

its not gonna jump out of it and kill yharim

[spare pier]

Tl;dr

Mystery for the sake of mystery is bad

[visual kiln]

the story is inside the game tho?

[visual kiln]

says who

[spare pier]

Me

I am saying it

[visual kiln]

damn

[keen dock]

Girl just got told

[spare pier]

Anything for the sake of the same thing is bad imo to begin with

[pliant ruin]

shadow of the colossus is one of the most fantastic stories ive ever seen in a game

[wheat walrus]

I was not the one mentioning first mentioning Noxus here though.

[pliant ruin]

it does not explain jackshit

[deft vessel]

Xeroc…

[fierce pagoda]

isnt it still kinda a mystery as to why primwyrm is strong

[visual kiln]

does like

[keen dock]

It just shows you the world and what you need to do, you see what’s in front of you, your goal, you can’t see through the fog that surrounds that goal tho, it’s a good analogy I swear

[fierce pagoda]

i mean we know its blessed by silva

but is that enough

[pliant ruin]

no its literally directly explained

[warm gull]

I had to fall, to lose it all

[pliant ruin]

its blessed by silva + oldest wyrm

[visual kiln]

not rlly

[fierce pagoda]

Personally, i like it being explained, just ahh yes finally some concrete answers

[visual kiln]

i could say the sky is yellow

doesnt mean its true

[wheat walrus]

already strong creature thing dragon relative, the first of them, plus blessed by a quite powerful god too

dude's stacked

[fierce pagoda]

i would not mind if calamity had no mysteries by the end, and everything got explained

[visual kiln]

u already have 100348234983984 concrete answers on things

[warm gull]

nah tbh I actually agree with this

[fierce pagoda]

Im just that kinda guy what can i say

[visual kiln]

mystery is what makes a world compelling

[fierce pagoda]

more

[spare pier]

No

It's not

[fierce pagoda]

i need omre

[warm gull]

there should be a real explanation for everything

[spare pier]

[warm gull]

like

[visual kiln]

do u have a source for this btw

like

actual academia

[spare pier]

Mystery is what makes a world interesting to theorize about

[visual kiln]

yes

[keen dock]

I think this is what was meant by too much mystery is bad, we have so many mysteries that ideas become so varied and we become so passionate about those ideas that we argue and fight over them

[visual kiln]

and this is what keeps ppl hooked in a world

[spare pier]

That's not "compelling"

[visual kiln]

keeps ppl thinking about it

[visual kiln]

no?

[spare pier]

Yes, and that's still not "compelling"

[fierce pagoda]

yeah thats the thing im not the theory guy so the less i have to theorize myself the better for me

[wheat walrus]

mystery is cool but not everywhere

[visual kiln]

ok compelling was the wrong word then

[pliant ruin]

I'll be fr all of calamity's mysteries are like

[fierce pagoda]

but yeah thats just me

[pliant ruin]

only there bc the story us unfinished

[visual kiln]

im not fucking saying

[pliant ruin]

atleast thats whati t seems like

[visual kiln]

put it everywhere

[keen dock]

Okay okay let’s chill

[visual kiln]

can u all stop dogpiling me and cheese

please

[fierce pagoda]

Im sre well still have mysteries

[wheat walrus]

[warm gull]

it's okay if you don't tell the people what the explanation is, but there should actually be an explanation and just leaving something unexplained on purpose is a lazy copout for not being able to come up with a cool explanation :/

[spare pier]

Not what I meant there either, I meant that Primordial Wyrm either got explained or had nothing in it

[keen dock]

I love this mod and story but we shouldn’t be fighting over it

[fierce pagoda]

dogpiling?

what about catpiling

[warm gull]

wtf this is literally subjective what do you mean by this

like

[wheat walrus]

who even is dogpiling who

[fierce pagoda]

the dogs

[spare pier]

And PW having absolutely no explanation as to why it's so strong just comes off as "there is no explanation because this is meant to be mysterious"

[wheat walrus]

😭

[spare pier]

And imo it's not a good mystery

[keen dock]

Isn’t it an offshoot of dragons

That’s part of the answer

[visual kiln]

its subjective to a degree but also empirically there've been studies on this

[wheat walrus]

yea this the dogpile and even the entire arsenal too, maybe even the additional ammo and the final nuke to end the war

[keen dock]

Gives us enough to go off of to define the mystery but not answer it outright

[split mortar]

Mention theories people have in universe idk

[spare pier]

Specially because I still think making the possibility that a random fucking animal can just exist somewhere in the world and it beats the strongest mage in the history of Terraria is just

[indigo glade]

I'll say my take on this, and say nothing else from now on.

[visual kiln]

there is no mystery!!!!!!!

[pliant ruin]

there is no mystery

[spare pier]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/466943505663655937/1083946998614470748/1678391318329531.gif

[pliant ruin]

😭

[visual kiln]

its the oldest wyrm + silva blessing

[pliant ruin]

its like

directly explained

[visual kiln]

0 mystery is in the wyrms

[fierce pagoda]

who are the wyrms fathers

boom mystery

[indigo glade]

What differentiates a good mystery and a bad mystery is how capable you are of solving said mystery with the information given.

[visual kiln]

i agree

yea

[pliant ruin]

Calamity generally seems to operate on the ideas that everything needs to be explained

because like

[visual kiln]

however the mystery should exist to be a good mystery

and like

it just doesnt here

[fierce pagoda]

Lowkey we need 3 calamity songs to match our dark mysterious aura

[keen dock]

Okay I’m out I hate conflict especially when it’s ruining something I like not because of what it is but because of what it isn’t yet

[fierce pagoda]

give me 3 most mysterious cal songs

[fierce pagoda]

yoo i lowkey kinda fw that

[warm gull]

I don't care at all what the general populace thinks is compelling, the general populace has bad taste in media and also, I hate academia in literature and having to organize and define what is "good" and "bad" when its all subjective anyways

[spare pier]

And that then comes with the caveat of us having to make ways of solving such a mystery, which while possible and possibly worth it because the Wyrm is a very important guy anyways, imo is not somethin I want to work on anyways and is just not interesting to me

[wheat walrus]

alr, I don't think there's like actual aggressive conflict but this arguing about this kinda stuff isn't new, so fair ig

[fierce pagoda]

if the answer is implied but not directly stated

im cool

permafrost guys

get it hes cool

[wheat walrus]

fair

[pliant ruin]

I didn't really see this as conflict

it's just a debate

[spare pier]

Neither did I

[wheat walrus]

debate yea

[deft vessel]

Ok… I dont think here is too much lore i would miss by eeping

[keen dock]

Idk maybe I’m just sensitive, wouldn’t be the first time

[visual kiln]

me neither

[fierce pagoda]

I saw this as an opportunity to eat my chocolate while reading

[visual kiln]

like

[warm gull]

for some reason aza asking rebecca for a source for why she thinks explaining your world is more compelling actually kinda got me heated

[visual kiln]

@spare pier 🫵 ur still my friend btw

eats u

[fierce pagoda]

uttil the dogs started to pile up though

[wheat walrus]

I find this specific one very annoying since y'all, the same exact people carrying this out (mainly cheese, reb and aza), I already seen y'all argue about this like 523759872385927528973589225789 times recently is just

change y'all

[fierce pagoda]

that was kinda strange

[dusk laurel]

[visual kiln]

u can never get rid of me

[pliant ruin]

it's not an argument to begin with though

as i said

its a debate

theres nothing wrong with that

[cosmic zenith]

I do think mystery would benefit Wyrm conceptually, but Wyrm is just too powerful yet earthly to be that mysterious
"There's this being that's stronger than Calamitas lurking in the depths. How is it so strong? *shrug*"

There's also Astrum Deus that employs a mystery like that, except Deus is earlier in progression and it's literally a cosmic creature

[pliant ruin]

having ur ideas be challenged is a good thing

[fierce pagoda]

lowkey if anyone thought this was a heated argument idk what to tell you

[wheat walrus]

it's literally just yall arguing about how stuff should or should not be when very little will change from this

[visual kiln]

^ u get better ideas

[fierce pagoda]

grow thicker skin i guess

[deft vessel]

Wouldnt eating Reb get rid of her. Or do your stomach fluids not work

[spare pier]

Exactly what I think

[pliant ruin]

omni

it's not an argument

[fierce pagoda]

Pomni

[visual kiln]

like i genuinely like that rebecca disagree with me on things

[warm gull]

I think that you should explain everything, but I agree that the primordial wyrm could have a more interesting explanation than just "silva did it"

[wheat walrus]

idc

[indigo glade]

I lied. I will give another statement. I think people have too much a negative view on the word "arguement". An arguement can be positive, too.

[fierce pagoda]

i am indifferent when someone disagrees with me

[visual kiln]

i dont wanna b surrounded by yes-ppl who never disagree with me on anything that sounds like hell tbh

[fierce pagoda]

cuz im right either way

its jus how it is im sorry

[wheat walrus]

that's just me being weird about words since I'm still sucky on some english aspects

[visual kiln]

TRUE

confrontation is good and healthy and usually resolves like 90% of issues

[deft vessel]

Agreed

[visual kiln]

communication is a good skill to have

[warm gull]

I do think that the current explanation for the abyss and primordial wyrm is better than having no explanation at all

[visual kiln]

*unless its like objectively not good confrontation

[pliant ruin]

i don rly have anything to add anymore i dont think i got burnt out

[visual kiln]

ghosts imo,,,,,

[warm gull]

because again, there is no way I can be convinced that intentionally not explaining something important is anything more than a lazy cop-out to avoid having to actually having to come up with an answer

[wheat walrus]

ok but #lore-discussion message right after I point out "mystery is cool but not everywhere"

[spare pier]

Wyrm is too strong to not explain why it's like that and the possibility that there are just random animals in forsaken corners of the world that can match the strongest mage in the history of Terraria just makes the world you're playing in feel insignificant. This was forever my problem with the Old Lore, it constantly went "there is always a bigger fish in the sea" and throwing that in your face every five seconds is not good. This case specially would not work because you're about to face Yharim and then, oops, guess there might be animals in this very planet who are almost as strong as this guy!

[fierce pagoda]

yoo i finally figured out why the abyssal spirits get disturbed when polterjimbo is killed, its probably a remnant from old lore when Yharim used to dump dead bodies in the sulphureous sea

[warm gull]

expand on this idea

[fierce pagoda]

Domain expansion

idea

[visual kiln]

this was in response to having to deal with like

[wheat walrus]

anyways yall talking about how things should and shouldn't be over terraria mod lore annoys me because I've seen y'all already do this a few times and I don't remember that going too well, not actual shitty stuff but it left a bad taste and ion want that

simple

[visual kiln]

5 different ppl coming in and ping replying me with stuff