suggestions-discussion

[fossil finch]

Yea

[small timber]

to my knowledge nearly every other boss invincible phase transition is removed, except DoG phase 2

[dire mural]

Well, figured I’d still talk about it

Inconsistencies for big bosses bother me a lot

[fossil finch]

technically eol has it shortly for the phase transition and yharon also does it for the vortexes but yharon damages himself

[dire mural]

Ocd kicks in lol

[fossil finch]

It's not an inconsistency though?

[dire mural]

Inconsistency

[small timber]

ya, though eol is super short that I will not really count (1 second?)

[fossil finch]

it's not inconsistent at all

[small timber]

at this point it is more of a unique attribute rather than something that should happen and is inconsistent that some dont

[fossil finch]

It can be described as a lot of things but it's not "inconsistent"

Its her own self contained design as a boss

[dire mural]

It goes from a squish ball to a minute long bullet hell, the difficulties of the squish ball vs the bullet hell are vastly different

[fossil finch]

that's very debatable

[dire mural]

Which is ofc

Subjective

Either way

[small timber]

outside of bullet hell she still has brother phase and seeker so I will not exactly count it as not difficult

[dire mural]

I think things could be done to improve the fight

I ain’t the devs

And I can’t think of a full suggestion

So I’ll let a smarter person handle that sometime

[small timber]

in some way, just I dont think making her vulnerable during bh will be like, the best idea? or rather a very indirect way of trying to make her better but have problem that comes with it

[dire mural]

Yeah it’s not an easy answer

Just yeah, feel like something could be done

I don’t want scal to be easy

I want it to feel better as a boss

Big diff

[small timber]

just for reference (of your idea), do you prefer the old scal (when she is still eyeball) that she is extremely tanky during non-bh phase?

[dire mural]

I wasn’t around for this

[small timber]

since I remember her normal phase lasted way longer in that version because her fight time is way longer

ah right

[dire mural]

I am relatively new to terraria on the grand scheme of terraria

Lmao

Like 1 year

I think now

[small timber]

ya the scal change is not too many years ago, but I think you just missed it

[dire mural]

Probably

Either way

I don’t want her to get giga tanky

But yeah it’s like

Head scratcher

[violet pivot]

Maybe something like how dog used to be

Remove part of the fight

[dire mural]

Idk how dog used to be

Nah

I don’t want the bh removed

[fossil finch]

Nothing dog used to be like can be used as an example for anything

[dire mural]

Clearly that’s important

[fossil finch]

I can assure you

[dire mural]

And the bullet hell would be good if it wasn’t so

Tedious

At least to me

[violet pivot]

After you killed dog once the sentinels didnt spawn anymore

[fossil finch]

simply make it not tedious
Easy
Problem solved

[dire mural]

Lol

[fossil finch]

How to solve your problems 101

[dire mural]

I wish

[fossil finch]

(Solving them

[fossil finch]

That'd be so awful

[dire mural]

But yeah I’m not the best at coming with full suggestions

[fossil finch]

kill scal once you're permanently locked out forever of the most fun part

[dire mural]

I just want the current boss to feel good without removing anything

I want scal to be the same

No removal of the bh

Or normal phase

[small timber]

I will be honest scal bh is so iconic at this point that they will not touch it, whether duration or bullet pattern or other thing like that

[dire mural]

Yeah I get it

Just voicing my view

[small timber]

the only way is actually to make her normal phase so drastically harder that it is comparable to bullet hell, so that it is no longer tedious; it is just phase transition

[dire mural]

Ye

[small timber]

but that will be like, hellish, considering how hard scal is already, especially for new player
they probably have to massively dumb down her damage numbers in that case which has other balance issue

[dire mural]

Yeah

It’s just a boss that really doesn’t feel good lol

Like I love her design and everything

Just dear god

Lmao

Like DOg feels good

The mechs does a lot of dodging way better imho

[small timber]

another aspect is probably that her difficulty is massively end loaded; as in the most difficult part of the fight is at the end; while the front is much easier but last just as long; for example before BH3 (except BH1 but you can retry that), scal is just weak

meanwhile each phase afterwards (brothers, BH4, seekers, BH5) is extremely deadly

[dire mural]

Yep

[gaunt tiger]

scal is actually a very very clean boss for how hard it is

an amazing final boss

[small timber]

that I can agree, though I think the main problem is (tbh), when you have to retry her

I dont want to be that guy, but say, if the player completely negate defense, scal deal 50%+ of their hp in damage every bullet hell projectile, which makes it extremely hard that every BH is a massive difficulty dump

[gaunt tiger]

I disagree in that I think that's the point? the lyrics of the song combined with the punishing difficulty + the lore
it's amazing

[small timber]

(which I think is many of the case if they dont stack difficulty like master/malice/ftw)

[gaunt tiger]

the song is in the voice of scal and she's taunting you
goading you to just give up

[small timber]

at some point I think the mod just have to say "yo use better build"

[gaunt tiger]

which had a bit more meaning when she was a superboss but that's neither here nor there

defense is a dead stat on summoner post moon lord

[violet pivot]

So true lol

2 hits and you dead without sponge

[small timber]

obligatory summoner face tank scal video

[frozen hornet]

All her BHs last 15 seconds, which totals to about 1:15 of BH time

not to mention her sep and seeker phases

[small timber]

though I dont have the newst version after DR change, need to record it at some point
I had a video of me literally standing still at scal for the entire duration until moons spawn as summoner

[unique vector]

she is supposed to be very hard and punishing

not as much as before

[frozen hornet]

and as ender said if you made her vulnerable during the BHs she'd just become like exos where she has a ton of health

[gaunt tiger]

is it really worth it to be able to tank 3 more hits if the amount of damage you lose makes the fight last 45 seconds longer

[unique vector]

but still enough as an endgame boss

[gaunt tiger]

that was the impression I got! SCal and Exos are the best the mod has to offer hands down

[small timber]

from getting 1 shot to 2 shot is double survivability, to 3 shot is +50%, 4 shot is +33%; from getting 2 shot to 5 shot is more than doubled

[unique vector]

i will disagree with you on exos but sure

[small timber]

dieing in 2 shot or 5 shot is a MASSIVE difference

[gaunt tiger]

but the fight takes longer so if you can't dodge you will just get hit more

[frozen hornet]

I much prefer tanking builds because I can enjoy the fight more

[gaunt tiger]

also her active phases are unpredictable and harder to dodge than the BHs

[unique vector]

also some people prefer longer fights for the consistency and guarantee that they wont die 30 seconds in

[small timber]

the only hard part of the fight is bullet hell (tbh); and you dont really need damage to kill her

[gaunt tiger]

nah I'm good at the BHs

[unique vector]

its abt playstyle

[gaunt tiger]

tru

[small timber]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atBoFKmnNwU&t=2898s ok this video should work, in this video my fight lasted 12 minutes, if I maxed damage instead I will not survive

[gaunt tiger]

unless you're a summoner
4 hits in full menacing
5 hits in full warding

[small timber]

like, not even close

[gaunt tiger]

god bless silva revive

my beloved, the ultimate crutch

[small timber]

I think the main thing is how much defense is underated and how little menacing actually do; I had an entire suggestion dedicated to explain why menacing need buff because it is too weak compare to warding

#suggestions-voting message

[gaunt tiger]

I disagree on summoner at least
except yharon, but that tier you use saros which is bugged

maybe that's just a Certified Master Mode Problem™️

[small timber]

summoner is not much less tankier than melee, especially post-DoG

[gaunt tiger]

the bosses have so much hp
you need damage

[small timber]

I think the main thing is people assumed menacing is +28% damage, but it is not, it is basically just increase damage by 28%, which is 2 emblem; it is about ~14% of your total damage output

with warding you can get doubled your armor if you go full warding instead

[gaunt tiger]

nah menacing is uhhhhhhhh geometric?

the one that means it applies with diminishing returns

[small timber]

I dont think it is from testing

[frozen hornet]

Didn't warding just get nerfed

[gaunt tiger]

yes

[frozen hornet]

12 post yharon as opposed to 15

[small timber]

I requested the nerf since it was too broken

^

[frozen hornet]

that's 84 defense with full warding and auric has more than 100

Debunked...

though ig accs exist too

[small timber]

DR also count towards that since DR is more scarce/less now

[gaunt tiger]

silva revive is infinitely better than any amount of defense

\thread

[frozen hornet]

shame it's a one time thing

[small timber]

I will even debate silva revive to certain degree is even useless, just because it only works once; if it has a cooldown then it is different

[gaunt tiger]

silva revive has carried me so fucking hard

[small timber]

silva revive keeps you alive in a situation when you are dead; defense prevents you from reaching death in the first place and works for the entire fight

[frozen hornet]

Give silva armor reactive armor

[gaunt tiger]

silva revive lets you skip an entire phase of SCal

it is absolutely fucking absurd in giving you free kills

[frozen hornet]

in a boss with what 7 phases

[small timber]

that is the case, but the problem is ya

you have to dodge the first 6 phases manually

[gaunt tiger]

I don't think it should be nerfed, I just think it's good

[swift wharf]

Silva invincibility is more busted than the revive imo

[frozen hornet]

GS dash is cooler anyways

[gaunt tiger]

you get both with draconic elixir :)))

[swift wharf]

the fuck

[gaunt tiger]

yeah

you revive at 300hp and become *unable to drop below 1hp for however many seconds

I wanna say it's 6?

mebbe 5

[small timber]

#suggestions-voting message draconic elixir is actually another thing I wanted to be buffed; if it dont put your healing potion in cooldown then it is great; the problem is it does

[gaunt tiger]

what lol

no

please no

it's so broken already

it can activate if your potion is already on cd

and only 30s?

wow

[small timber]

it extends it no?

[gaunt tiger]

yeah

by 30s

I'm telling you draconic elixir and silva are the strongest defensive tools in the entire game bar none

[frozen hornet]

even dheart?

[gaunt tiger]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
yes

[frozen hornet]

are you sure...

[gaunt tiger]

never used dheart since rework

[frozen hornet]

240 health and invincibility every 30 seconds assuming you don't get hit

and it's not affected by potion cooldowns

[gaunt tiger]

can it really be better than 300hp and 5 sec of undying tho

[small timber]

ok I just retested it yet just to be sure, the problem with draconic elixir is you are completely invincible during the entire silva invincibility

[frozen hornet]

And it gives a ton of defense

[gaunt tiger]

nah you can take damage

just not die

[small timber]

so if you get hit when you cannot die, the heal is wasted, and your healing potion is put on cooldown

[frozen hornet]

Can't say for sure

but it's not one-use so automatically better iirc

[gaunt tiger]

but it requires you to not get hit

so it's automatically worse imo

[frozen hornet]

it doesn't get reset once you get hit

It just takes longer to go to full

[small timber]

thats the main problem I think, because you can instead manually use the healing potion when you are near the end of the silva invincibility to guarantee the heal is not wasted

especially with core of the blood god and rampart of deities your healing potion is much more effective

the 1 situation silva is extremely good is when you are on glass cannon build that you die from 1/2 hit, then silva is good; the problem is a good build should not allow you to die from 1/2 hit in the first place

[gaunt tiger]

Certified Non Master Mode Experience™️

[small timber]

^ (yes you can very much tank master death/malice, since malice no longer amplify damage; just not master ftw)

just not dog I think, but I didnt minmaxed for it

and that is with consideration that the mod is not balanced around master death; it is around expert rev

[gaunt tiger]

on a melee build, which is the class with the tankiest accessories

also
just dodge

[small timber]

so tank currently is extremely busted if I can tank master yharon

[gaunt tiger]

I don't think so

you are also dodging almost everything in that video

defense damage will absolutely pound your ass

[violet pivot]

The cursed mirror that gives 25% damage but gives you 15% damage taken

[gaunt tiger]

if you get hit
you still die

[small timber]

^

[gaunt tiger]

no but fr xp

defense damage

you still have to dodge shit even on tank

it's literally fine

[small timber]

defense damage reset extremely quickly, it is around 1/2 second and you fully regen from a recent hit; to my experience as long as you dont get chain hit (like running from one bh projectile to another) you should be fine

ok sorry I got carried away: people is not realistically expected to be go that tanky build

what I mean to say is the value of just having some defense and 7 warding is way more important than people realise compare to full damage 7 menacing

in the end defense is basically room for error: for example in the video; say if I die from 2/3 shot from yharon, the fight will be way harder, the fight is possible because I die from 5-6 shots instead

[gaunt tiger]

maybe I've played too much master mode
idk

[small timber]

on expert damage is way more toned down, master mode defense works but no way near as well

I can record a vid sec

[gaunt tiger]

MMR defense is literally useless

trust

[small timber]

if it still give you 1/2 more hits I will say it is already worth (warding vs menacing); if full tank I think can expect better, but ya sec

[gaunt tiger]

then let's agree to disagree

[unique vector]

balancing ideologies are funny arent they

[gaunt tiger]

I think defense and menacing are balanced

defense is better on lower difficulties, menacing is better on higher

that's fine

[small timber]

discord processing mp4 my beloved

ok I didnt realise how absurdly hard it is to get yharon to do exactly the same thing, this is full tank gear with warding

[gaunt tiger]

7 hits not bad

but it's like
I can tank 5 in full menacing on summoner

so

I'd prefer the damage

[small timber]

this one is glass cannon though I am unsure how accurate it is

the main thing is the first hit damage, since if you let defense damage regen you are always only tanking the first hit damage

this upload speed is amazing, I love discord processing 3rd video instead of 2nd first

[gaunt tiger]

oh the 5th hit is counting potion right

[small timber]

I dont think I used healing potion no

[gaunt tiger]

yy

I'm saying that's where I got the number 5 from

[small timber]

now I dont dare to reupload since it is still processing 2nd video

[gaunt tiger]

lol

[small timber]

same build (full tank) with menacing instead (basically just no reforge since no warding)

I didnt do anything, discord is amazing

[gaunt tiger]

4 hits is enough imo

[small timber]

the big difference is the first hit damage, the damage where you took if you let defense damage regen

[gaunt tiger]

eh. melee moment again tho

try summoner

[small timber]

(I count the one right after BH since it dont get affected by core of blood god)
full tank full warding - 176; full tank no warding - 242; glass cannon - 296

so basically it is just warding doing everything about tanking

sec I will not record video this time since I dont want to spam video, I will just identify the first hit damage right after a charge (with no defense damage)

ok I will record 1, just for full tank summoner, just for reference

[gaunt tiger]

on master rev lol
to best demonstrate my point 😛

[small timber]

(ok I should stop spamming video at this point)

good old discord processing, ok I will just leave it here at wait for 10 years for discord to finally process these 20 seconds long videos

world is master (can see yharon's hp), difficulty is rev (I think I did press esc)

ok I will just edit a youtube video instead, these super long processing is killing me; ok sorry I will add the last 4th one of summoner glass cannon + full warding, sec

[drowsy plank]

damn did we really never get a resolution to this one? i dont see a vote result message when searching trophy in this channel so ig so

thought it was pertinent to the recent sugg

all im hearing for that is "remove the interesting and skill based part of the weapon and turn it into another broadsword"

i think crits on the tip of the attack makes a lot of sense in all honesty, that's the sweetspot and how actual whips work (not in terraria but they're just a whole different bag of worms so lets ignore them) plus it differentiates it from other "whip-like" effects. im not even sure why this is a bad thing.

[gaunt tiger]

cognitive has anyone ever told you that you're too brazen and brash

[drowsy plank]

no and also i dont care
i dont think this is constructive either, it doesnt really explain any problem with the attack or effect beyond "it's a sword so you should need to be close to the enemy" which is just. not a good reason to rework an interesting effect

[eternal escarp]

if anything the jungle attunement is still more melee than other melee weapons...

still a physical weapin compared to magical sword beam number 83

[small timber]

I remember I talked something about it and iban did say the jungle attunement is not meant to function on its own, but to pair the movement with the other attunement

[gaunt tiger]

your opinions may be good, but you need to put them across in a more respectful manner

[eternal escarp]

other than that first part i dont think this is really that aggresive tbf

[gaunt tiger]

it's not just this time, it's just in general

byeah

[small timber]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbKhodTOlgU thank you youtube, much more cooler

anyway conclusion is warding is much better on a somewhat tanky summoner setup, but for full glass cannon it is just +1 hit, which at that point just go full bananas damage

[gaunt tiger]

yeah

so melee accessories make the difference ig

on summoner full glass cannon is bis

[small timber]

actually, I dont think melee accessories affect anything at all, in fact tank accessories didnt matter much I think

it was just warding, especially from the somewhat tank + warding vs no warding

[gaunt tiger]

also lol I told you silva set bonus is the best defense in the entire game

[small timber]

the thing is silva work once, otherwise yeah I will agree

[gaunt tiger]

it only needs to work once 😉

[small timber]

I mean you could had just, not get near death

but ya, master did make warding worse, though I think it will still be worth it on a non-glass cannon build

since dying from 5 hit compare to 3 is still a massive difference, especially recovery wise, (and silva proc), since you have less chance to proc silva too early

[gaunt tiger]

so it was indeed a Patented Master Mode Moment™️

tbh tho I don't have any difficulty on new yharon

he's very easy even without abusing saros

[small timber]

new yharon is much more fair rather than super knowledge based, at least from my experience; previously aimed projectile forced you to have a specific positioning or get hit very often

[gaunt tiger]

DoG tho
well, let's not have that whole rant again

[gaunt tiger]

yeah it's very fair and predictable

[small timber]

but ya regardless I should be doing something else instead, at least it is not urgent

[gray nebula]

me when melee cannot have any different range viability than being super close to the player

[gaunt tiger]

me when

summoner

😭

[hollow shell]

I'd argue that you could extrapolate further meaning from "melee needing to get close" into "melee needing to focus on spacing", which the whip crack crit falls in line with

And yeah there are plenty of get-close options already

[tiny minnow]

Well, they could call the Jungle Attunement like… a whip or something. And make THAT ONE ATTUNEMENT summoner.

[hollow shell]

😡

[tiny minnow]

And the others are other classes. Or that’s dumb

[drowsy plank]

i think that is just not a good idea at all

it goes against the fact that it is. you know. a melee weapon

imagine making the biome blade, you go get your attunement, and it starts dealing like. magic damage
it doesnt benefit from your stats at all

doesnt seem great

[gaunt tiger]

it was a joke

clearly

[drowsy plank]

the way they phrased it i really cant tell

[gaunt tiger]

I think spacing is a good playstyle for melee, and for that reason rewarding good spacing with crits seems perfectly fine @proud plinth

[proud plinth]

tru.. but i find myself actually attacking enemies from a range rather than simply spacing myself

[gaunt tiger]

well that's the reward then, right? skilled play and precise positioning gives you bonus damage

knowledge of a boss' patterns makes that safer

high skill cap weapon

[proud plinth]

i guess? i cant really put what im trying to say into words

[gaunt tiger]

I know what you mean

but other weapons exist at this tier

for the playstyle you are talking about

if what you mean is that those weapons are bad, ping a tester and they can take a look for you

[proud plinth]

i guess what im trying to say is that im using the whip more like a mage class lazer weapon than a sword..

[drowsy plank]

id like to point out this sword also shoots projectiles and has multiple close range attunements anyway

i think the fact jungle is mid range is actually very good for it

[proud plinth]

im not saying the other melees at this tier are bad

[small timber]

I think it just need incentive, like bigger damage + crit if you hit with whips end

currently the incentive is just very low, jungle attunement by itself do super low damage

[proud plinth]

the projectiles have travel time though, and the close range attunements reward spacing alot more than the jungle one seems to do

[drowsy plank]

i think the issue is what xpc said then that jungle is underpowered rn and the tip hits should reward you more

[proud plinth]

no no the tip hits are busted

for true biome blade it goes from like 200-400 a hit with no crits to easy 1k+ hits with crits

[drowsy plank]

so you get rewarded for spacing the tip correctly? i dont see what the issue is then

[proud plinth]

what im trying to say is that it promotes too much of a ranged playstyle imo, i get that its trying to reward good positioning and spacing in a fight but i never use it the way its intended

i just run away and get rewarded with crits.. its hard to explain..

[drowsy plank]

so you space yourself correctly... and are rewarded...

[proud plinth]

is running from the fight spacing yourself correctly in this case?

[drowsy plank]

i mean i just wouldnt call it running

every class has a range they work best at

[violet pivot]

Wouldnt be great to tune down the body damage of dog and thanatos a little bit? It does over 200 damage

[small timber]

wait I thought you are referring to broken biome blade

since that one is the one that move you

oh ok, I was confused that you are saying broken biome blade should be changed to rework the moving function

[proud plinth]

but if you just fly around and run away from the boss the boss tends to always stay around the tip area and you are practically rewarded with crits for running from the boss like a mage or ranged playstyle would

[drowsy plank]

and how is this any different than a projectile sword?

or summoner even

[proud plinth]

projectile swords GENERALLY tend to reward lining your shots with the travel time of the projectile and allow you to get extra damage by using both true melee hits plus your projectiles

[proud plinth]

also summoner is a entirely different class wdym

[hollow shell]

A bad argument cuz proj swords are an abhoration of melee

[proud plinth]

real...

[drowsy plank]

oh i realize but i mean a class rewarding a mid range isnt like

abhorrent or something

[proud plinth]

but isnt melee generally getting in the bosses face and more of an agressive playstyle? a weapon that rewards running from the boss and keeping it just offscreen wouldnt fit that imo

[small timber]

midrange is still getting into boss' face, just not literally in its face

[hollow shell]

I feel like this is an argument that doesn't really need to happen
cuz this is more of a "dont star it" thing than a "dont post the suggestion" thing

imo

[small timber]

other class can play with the boss slightly off screen 90% of the fight and be fine

[drowsy plank]

i think you need to give space for a class to breathe and have unique weapons otherwise it just dissolves into only broadswords and only projectiles

[drowsy plank]

ok you have a point, but it's not like much else is happening here atm

[small timber]

ya it will just be enforcer and dragonrage no.499, where you just have a weapon that is true melee range but does 5x damage of other on-tier weapon to compensate

[proud plinth]

but this isnt really mid range, atleast for the true biome blade, it literally usually devolves into keeping the boss literally half offscreen

[proud plinth]

melee should and does have unique weapons that still feel melee imo

[hollow shell]

:( Don't argue just for the sake of it

[drowsy plank]

lmao

[small timber]

it is still less offscreen than most weapon, and if that is the case you can just suggest to make the range even shorter but deal more damage

[proud plinth]

like the psycho knife or the arks

[drowsy plank]

just imagine jungle as a bigger sword problem solved

[small timber]

ark is a one off weapon, psycho knife is just.... true melee?

[proud plinth]

true, idk how that would work in action tho

[small timber]

that is the problem: it is very hard for that to work in action, which is why it is the way it is

[proud plinth]

psycho knife is true melee with stealth charging attacks if i remember right

[hollow shell]

(it's a weapon line)

[proud plinth]

yeah, but the way it is feels too long ranged.. guess its down to how a shorter range would be implimented

[small timber]

(sorry meant to say one off weapon line, where there is no other like it)

[proud plinth]

dont want it feeling true melee but also dont want it having the range of a magic weapon

[proud plinth]

theres nothing like the psycho knife for melee if i remember right...

[small timber]

they can just make it shorter range I think, just it will be extremely non-new player friendly; it will just strip most of the non-true melee option from melee class and say "ya if you want to play tank you also have to be true melee", doesn't really work

[proud plinth]

unless theres another melee where you can stand still to charge attacks..

[hollow shell]

XP and I were referring to Arks

[proud plinth]

i could see how it could work, overhaul does it great and makes true melee feel good

[small timber]

isnt psycho knife right click the one that put you in stealth? or calamity changed it at some point

[proud plinth]

it has things like i-frames when hitting an enemy so you arent taking more damage than you are dealing

[hollow shell]

Psycho Knife never had a rightclick as far as I remember

[proud plinth]

idk but in vanilla you stand still and go into a stealth mode thing where you get MUCH larger damage for your first hit

[small timber]

I just think it is best to leave it separate: have true melee option for those who are able to do it; and slightly ranged though less rewarding weapon for those who just want to play the class

currently true biome blade is the 2nd option, no need to force it true melee, especially that the same biome blade have other true melee attunement on it

[proud plinth]

yeah.. but the slightly ranged is more like long ranged and it is more rewarding than the more true melee options on the true biome blade

[small timber]

then it is more of a matter that it deal way too high damage/true melee one deal too little damage tbh, and less with the mechanic of the weapon

[proud plinth]

you could argue that it is either or both

[small timber]

because the true melee option should be more rewarding than the ranged version if you can pull it off, it is just how it is, if it is not it might need balancing

[proud plinth]

if it didnt deal 1k crits due to the mechanic, then it would be more in-line with the true melee options for true biome blade, if it did less damage it would reward the spacing less...

[small timber]

wait that doesnt seem right, last time I used it it definitely didnt deal 1k crits

[proud plinth]

i dont want to ruin the skill ceiling of the weapon but i also agree that the true melee should be more rewarding

[small timber]

I know ark lines are doing way more damage than they should right now so biome blade might be the same case

[proud plinth]

yeah it deals easily 1k+ crits

[small timber]

true biome blade right? the post plant one

[proud plinth]

yea

[swift wharf]

that sounds right

the base damage is 400

[proud plinth]

yea

[swift wharf]

then what is the problem exactly

[small timber]

ya it was NOT this strong

no way close, last time I used it on PBG it was a 3 minute fight

[swift wharf]

wait tbb doesn't have whips it has the chains

[small timber]

@inner anvil sorry for ping, when you had time may you test true biome blade jungle attunement? it is way overperforming than I remember

[proud plinth]

yeah, same functionality tho

[small timber]

(there is a suggestion for it)

[swift wharf]

ah ok

btw wtf I remember it being trash lmao

[proud plinth]

the problem is that it deals 1k damage every like half second with crits and has the range of a magic weapon

[inner anvil]

I'll do it in a bit.

[still zodiac]

from my recent experience it's not trash at all

skill difference eclipse iirc

[swift wharf]

before 2.0 it was pp poopoo

[small timber]

not exactly accurate since I use it as post-Golem, but last time I also did it for PBG so I had comparison, just I didnt keep the stat

[swift wharf]

now do it without shattering potion

[still zodiac]

true biome blade is the post deus one

[proud plinth]

yeah i forgor

[swift wharf]

well that explains it

[small timber]

oh ok, I just followed it

since it is post deus I will just do like a moon lord test

(though I still remember it was definitely not 1:16 for true biome blade)

ok on moon lord seems reasonable, I didnt test it on moon lord so I have no comparison (same build as above)

this seems pretty fine tbh, since if it is post-deus you pretty much only use it for moon lord, then you have ark of elements which is drastically stronger

[proud plinth]

tru

still the other attunements still feel incredibly underpowred in comparison

[small timber]

(ark of elements look like this with the exact same build except weapon, make sense since it is post-Moon Lord)

[small timber]

then ya definitely consider it in the suggestion, since for post-Deus the jungle attunement I dont feel is particularly powerful, maybe weak even

just easy to use

[gray nebula]

I mean appartemently rn some may get extra damage from melee speed

which is goofy they should not have that

give them the same tag as zenith which prevents that from happening

[proud plinth]

ok @small timber i changed the suggestion

[small timber]

this is the true melee (corruption/sanguine fury) one of true biome blade, if you can pull it off (quite easy tbh since it deal absurd damage)

[proud plinth]

ok maybe i was just using the true melee ones wrong then

[small timber]

I think whip attunement is in fact, the underpowered one

[proud plinth]

i did not get that kind of dps befor... ima remove the suggestion in that case..

[small timber]

this one right?

[swift wharf]

isn't the speen really good too

[proud plinth]

that and the uh

astral infection one

[small timber]

ya this one is the true melee one I used, I will test astral infection too

[swift frigate]

im incredibly late, but yooo, my mod is kinda famous and prob me being highly offtopic

[swift wharf]

omg john wiki

[gray nebula]

John wiki would you be able to add calamity compat

or is there something simple that can be done to get it compatible with cal on our side

idk how the mod works but I'd hope its not like having to manually assign a wiki link to every item

[swift frigate]

what/who is john wiki

[inner anvil]

You are John Wiki.

[swift frigate]

oh

[gray nebula]

yes im asking u

[swift frigate]

well uh

its literally 2-3 lines

use one of these calls

[small timber]

astral one I dont have result, it is super good at clearing hand eyes but it is very hard to hit the top eye and core because of how moon lord move

[gray nebula]

Nice

whats the difference between the calls

[swift frigate]

just a number

[gray nebula]

oh, right, mod calls work this way it's the identifier

[swift frigate]

they basically same but other one is shorter

[swift frigate]

yeah basically that

[gray nebula]

I'll do that when I'm back on my pc

how does the mod work exactly? I assume it just takes the display name of the item and looks it up on the wiki or something right

[swift frigate]

yeah

sorta like that

[gray nebula]

dope

[swift frigate]

so basically, that suggestion about wikithis is accepted?

[gray nebula]

I guess so yes

[gaunt tiger]

@eternal escarp please could you test something for me?

tactical plague engine might be bugged

[eternal escarp]

in what sense?

somwthing with thw bullets?

[gaunt tiger]

I think it seriously underperforms, might be some i-frame nonsense idk but it's bad

[eternal escarp]

hm

i can check but likely later, im not home currently

[gaunt tiger]

oki

thank!

[inner anvil]

Hi, for the True Biome Blade (Jungle) against Moon Lord, it does 3:43 minutes with intended 4:00, but due to it's mechanic in which you need to hit with the tip to get extra damage, which requires a lot of manuver around Moon Lord, this weapon, or attunement, I consider it balanced.
Also sorry for the late response, it's the way of being sick.

[gaunt tiger]

heya memes

how u doin

[inner anvil]

Sick.

Not as in sick "Fine", sick as in "I'm fucked".

Apart from that I'm fine.

[gaunt tiger]

😦

gws

[inner anvil]

It seems Blast can't test that summoner weapon, it would be quite comedic if I did.

[gaunt tiger]

it would but do you really not want to like rest

[inner anvil]

I can handle one more test.

[gaunt tiger]

hmm

[small timber]

I think my setup was abit damage oriented which is why I got much shorter kill time

[small timber]

(this was the time I got with jungle)

[inner anvil]

Here's the set-up.

[small timber]

ya I used beetle offensive which maybe why my killtime was much faster

[small timber]

^()

[inner anvil]

Yup', that's very aggresive.

[small timber]

I kinda forgot hydro exist so I used beetle, forgot to consider I should swap to absorber for accessory rather than mostly offense

[inner anvil]

It happens to the best of us.

[fossil finch]

I remember them being fine but they missed a lot so you'd have insane damage bursts between periods of doing barely anything

Idk if this is what you're getting

[gaunt tiger]

not sure

[small timber]

(though after seeing the buff, I think it might be best to always include shattering though, just because it is massive for melee; it is equivalent of almost rage and wrath + ichor)

[gaunt tiger]

I suspected it was an i-frame issue

[fossil finch]

Remove shattering potion

Issue fixed

[small timber]

and the potion is not particularly hard to acquire either: essence of sunlight can be abundant from wyvern farm and beetle shell is golem with infinite summons

[fossil finch]

Because it's legitimately broken

[small timber]

tbh at some point they are just gonna have to say "suck it melee fanboys" and remove it

they already have flask, they dont need 2nd copy of rage wrath; especially when balancing is done when sometimes shattering is used/not used
(especially if 1.4.4 vanilla wanted to make buff slot literally doubled to 44; which means there is space for almost all potions in the game)

beside shattering another one is cursed flame flask

[inner anvil]

I'll let Blast go deep with Tactical Plague Engine because he was the one pinged for it.
But spoiler, this thing's terrible.

[gaunt tiger]

it's firing blanks XD

thanks memes 😄 now go rest lol

[small timber]

(sorry for pinging when you are sick, I think I searched through the tester list and you are the only one online at the time)

[inner anvil]

Don't worry.

[eternal escarp]

atleast people use the tester list

ill go check them right now, ill ask about any possible iframe issue if it appears like there is one

[grim tusk]

Just posting these suggs to get people's opinions

[hollow shell]

I support the first one, and partially don't support the second one

I am a vanity user so forced invisibility is annoying

And as I said in dev, I like the subclass effects for the wiki's sake

[gaunt tiger]

subclass effects sounds really convoluted

[grim tusk]

also said that you could keep it internally and shadow potion's projectiles and empyrean armor still existing

[small timber]

Does empyrean armor still give normal rage and wrath? Since I remember at some point hearing that they dont stack with normal rage and wrath potion

[grim tusk]

(afaik yes and its fucking dumb)

think I proposed that to change somewhere

[gaunt tiger]

wb blast

[eternal escarp]

guess i dont need to ping

[gaunt tiger]

lurking

[eternal escarp]

i cannot conclude yet but i am quite certain it has a deeper issue, instead of just being bad
doesnt seem to be iframes as even with all of the minions up they looked like all of them hit, current guess is that summon damage isnt being tagged in at all and it relies solely on the bullet damage

but i personally cannot be sure so yeah

[gaunt tiger]

; - ;

summoner moment

thanks blast

[eternal escarp]

its likely some issue that came with the port

np

ill update if i get a solid answer

[gaunt tiger]

how do I enquire about DoG being balanced

cos I think he's really overtuned

also he's very rude 😦

[subtle sapphire]

I'm getting my ass destroyed by the DoG but honestly that's way better than before when I was yawning through the whole fight

[gaunt tiger]

the fight's mechanics are kinda cheap?

[subtle sapphire]

Though for real he shouldn't say "Don't get cocky !" when I'm sweating like a whale fighting for my fucking life

Or the famous "The fight is not over yet !" right when I fucking die. Fight do be over fam

[subtle sapphire]

Which ones ? on expert I find him pretty fair... Maybe would put a better indicator of where the head is on screen

[gaunt tiger]

I think the lasers shouldn't be projectiles? or the projectiles should move faster maybe
also litereally remove cosmic guardians

[subtle sapphire]

wdym

how could the lasers not be projectiles

[gaunt tiger]

hitscan

[subtle sapphire]

ah gotcha

[gaunt tiger]

the lines could just turn into damage lasers

and the cosmic guardians are cringe

[fossil finch]

@hollow shell xd

you're not allowed to suggest content to be readded at all

[quaint kernel]

bruh

[fossil finch]

And for the exo gladius, at that point they'd just make a new exo melee weapon

[quaint kernel]

I mean i was thinking that the exo gladius is different enough from the exo blade to be renamed

[fossil finch]

Exo gladius wasn't removed because it was similar to exo blade

It was removed because shortswords suck

And projectile melee does too

[quaint kernel]

i said that it should be changed to a normal melee sword

instead of it being a shortsword

cuz it was genuinely just a fun weapon

[fossil finch]

That'd be worse

[drowsy plank]

that's just exoblade 2

[quaint kernel]

not really, they have pretty different attacks

[drowsy plank]

they're both projectile swords

[quaint kernel]

that is indeed true

[drowsy plank]

i mean they're literally both just projectile swords that fire in a straight line with similar effects

[quaint kernel]

the exo gladius doesnt fire in a straight line

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqXAarn8ThY&ab_channel=Toasty

its a lot like the first fractal

that one unobtainable weapon in vanilla terraria

[fossil finch]

First fractal but lame

[drowsy plank]

true!

[quaint kernel]

i mean first fractal but lame is still a pretty cool sword

[fossil finch]

I mean it's not a sword

It's a mage weapon that hapens to also stab whats directly in front of you

anyways it still wouldn't be readded because it's lame

"Its fun" is a not a good enough reason

[drowsy plank]

i mean it literally is just small exoblade
the both have homing projectiles, the both apply the same debuffs, and with the reworking of shortswords it literally is no different than exoblade

because the fact it only shot horizontally is gone

[grim tusk]

Exo gladius was placed in RoR2 scrapper, wait until it gets replaced by something more useful, unique and fun

[inner anvil]

What quality is the scrap?

[quaint kernel]

then it can apply different debuffs but idk where you're getting that other stuff

[drowsy plank]

the wiki

[quaint kernel]

exo gladius doesnt have homing projectiles, the projectiles dont shoot out from the blade and act completely differently, and its much shorter range

[quaint kernel]

oh wait nvm you're right about the homing part

but thats also in a different way to the exo blade

[hollow shell]

I was gonna say Exoblade's main proj doesn't have homing

Only its true melee ones

[gaunt tiger]

is there an astrum aureus rework in the oven

or wait no it was reworked recently right

[fossil finch]

He had some attacks added in 2.0 and his jump corrected

Much better fight

So, no

[hollow shell]

We have a mechanical addition planned for Aureus but it won't affect the current fight that much

[fossil finch]

Holy shit actual tie with draedon

[gaunt tiger]

I really dislike aureus' jumps

a lot

[subtle sapphire]

I really disliked them until I learned that it can change direction in the air so you just need to go the other way

But there's no outrunning it

That damn thing will drift in the air through the whole world to sit on you

[subtle sapphire]

Is mage as strong as other classes in post hm ? I'd like to add something about mages being underpowered in my suggestion but I just have no idea if it's true. Logically the lack of accessories should lead to a lack of damage

[drowsy plank]

i think on average their weapons are stronger or something

[gaunt tiger]

that's what's cringe about it
it's very counter-intuitive

[gray nebula]

pk with the banger suggs as always

[frail mantle]

@placid monolith you're gonna need better reasoning (shift + enter to put a linebreak before writing your reason so the bot doesn't shit itself trying to push it to voting)

also i believe the reason the remaining minibosses don't have relics is because iban didn't feel like making them

[gaunt tiger]

who is iban

also does that mean I should delete my suggestion

[frail mantle]

whether that be because he found them less cool or because he didn't find them cool enough to warrant one

[frail mantle]

lead artist man

[drowsy plank]

i feel like the easier explanation is all the vanilla minibosses with relics are in events

[gaunt tiger]

o

[gaunt tiger]

sand shark and clam have relics

[frail mantle]

that too

[drowsy plank]

actually wait clam isnt part of one

idk its weird

[gaunt tiger]

the acid rain bosses have them too

[crude geode]

You’ve been in this chat for a week and don’t know Iban, kinda cringe bro

[drowsy plank]

acid rain is an event tho

[frail mantle]

@oak moon calamity whips is gonna happen eventually, although there are no concrete plans yet as far as i'm aware

[subtle sapphire]

I don't know this man but calamity lead artist + "lizart" means he's a total chad

[placid monolith]

that is fair but it would be nice to have them

[oak moon]

i thought so im just impatient haha

[grave zinc]

@heady sun - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Making the mod compatible with the "Wikithis" mod would be very useful]

Your suggestion has already been previously passed and voted upon; if it isn't already implemented, the devs may reconsider their verdict.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@heady sun - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Making the mod compatible with the "Wikithis" mod would be very useful]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[inner anvil]

Get double ping'd.

[gray nebula]

lmao i can change the reaction to ping them as much as i want

[inner anvil]

Too much power.

[inland saddle]

Trolled

[swift wharf]

[swift frigate]

ohno

[crude geode]

pogged up

[swift frigate]

@idle plank

formatting

[idle plank]

better?

if its still wrong I will fix it again

[burnt condor]

personally I like anahita’s summon method! stands out more for not having a craftable boss summon and I only really found it annoying when I was grinding for shark fins and had to purposely avoid ???. I do get why grinding that boss fight would be cumbersome tho. waiting for a spawn

[crude geode]

@idle plank this has already been suggested ad nauseum

@hollow shell can we add "levi/anahita summon" to the frequently suggested

[idle plank]

and the conclusion was?

[crude geode]

hasn't reached dev yet iirc

[idle plank]

ah okay

[inner anvil]

Hm? Yes it has, what?

[heady sun]

LESS GOO

Lmao

[inner anvil]

#suggestions-discussion message

[swift frigate]

agreed

now we just have to wait till suggestions in thorium and fargos get accepted lol

[swift wharf]

wikithis takeover

[swift frigate]

... 😈

[heady sun]

Lol

[small timber]

(tbh this one have so many different things mixed into it that it can be denied because they dont like the other ideas)

[frosty trellis]

Considering unless you have Alchlite and abuse operator, basically everyone grinds for the community? Yeah, it can get annoying at times. I just tend to pop a zerg potion and she spawns rly quickly

[jagged spade]

bro i literally suggested the exact same thing in december and it has not been added ever since

[frosty trellis]

What's really annoying, is the fact that you no longer hear sirens call when she spawns, making knowing if she has spawned a living nightmare

[crude geode]

Did it actually go to dev

[fossil finch]

@coarse sky already in the works u don't need to suggest it

[coarse sky]

i didnt know where do you see that?

[fossil finch]

a dev has confirmed multiple times it's being worked on

It'll eventually be implemented

[coarse sky]

ok

[sleek crane]

Because it is a feature that was added in vanilla 1.4.1

[fossil finch]

i mean you can farm deus or aureus for fragments

Aureus only post ml

[coarse sky]

can you show me where stuff like that is talked about so i dont make that mistake again? or is it just scattered through twitter conversations and stuff

[fossil finch]

it's not on twitter lmao it's here

anyways its scattered in convos here

U aren't the first one to suggest this

The others were told

[coarse sky]

ok ty

[jagged spade]

yeah but that was back when we didnt have 1.4 calamity

[crude geode]

Liked =/= implementation

[jagged spade]

that's what im saying

i know that

[fossil finch]

it was not implemented precisely because 1.4 does it

I think

[jagged spade]

oh well

hope my new one is somewhat decent

[small timber]

at the time you post the suggestion calamity was on the way to 1.4 port

as in, there will be no update until 1.4 port, which is why there were no response

[crude geode]

coral sprout's design is perfect don't @ me

[fossil finch]

Me getting my Astral Injection

Coral Sprout is cool but it does 3 damage

[gray nebula]

no

i mean i meant no about the sugg

i do agree that coral spout is seemingly super weak im sorry oomfies

it didnt get balanced

[crude geode]

balancing team being tired af moment

[gray nebula]

I'm saying no to the sugg because yeah the prisms are braindead but

theyre braindead

👍

das the point

[crude geode]

it's a small subsection of weapons that isn't just. every mage weapon in existence to sugg expanding built-in mana recovery to.

would there be a different section this could target?

[gray nebula]

none

as ib, don't pick sections

[crude geode]

I might just end up deleting this one bc I know it's prolly planned already

[gray nebula]

like ideally itd be "hey could weh ave more weapons that make use of the mechanic uwuw in general

and even more broadly hey could we have more weapons that interact with mana in an interesting way uwu

and then id just reply to you 1 : lol 2 : the amount of weapons that do that has doubled in the next update

[crude geode]

figures

I love playing sugg battleship

[crude geode]

vacuum cleaner mhage weapon

[gray nebula]

i made a summhranger weapon

[crude geode]

what

[gray nebula]

true fans will understand

or will wait a few days teeehee

my god is recording good teasers annoying

[crude geode]

isn't that why you just post sound clips

[fossil finch]

Holy shit summoner ranger weapon

[crude geode]

or is it to be more cryptic and mysterious

[gray nebula]

its the latter

i just record shitty showcases for patrons cuz its ok to be shitty

[crude geode]

figured

lol

[gray nebula]

but like public spoilers i wanna have em MARKETABLE you know

like spirit and slr twitter posts

but i think i got it right

theres one which is really good im proud of it but its cool so youll have to wait a whilke

[fossil finch]

This is why calatwitter needs to exist

[gray nebula]

you were going to get one today but then i ended up getting dragged to the beach so i couldnt post it

and i cant post it now because its not the good hours for twitter engagment

[crude geode]

cal twitter leaks from iban and pixl when

[fossil finch]

You could ratio someone by cotweetinf with slr

[gray nebula]

tommorow at 1pm est

follow me

[fossil finch]

I downloaded a sound file just to confirm it is infact wulfrum or something

I already follow you

[crude geode]

👍

[fossil finch]

lmaoooo

[gray nebula]

confirm what? lol ? lol

actually my sound lekas is still useful even with the futureposting

as id say, "true fans will know"

but like they will really know

[crude geode]

I actually have no clue where any of the cal dev team is on social media besides like the local youtube channel

[gray nebula]

me

on twitter

besides just the yt channel

[fossil finch]

There is like another dev on twitter

They post once in a brown moon

[crude geode]

I really love this recommendation full of ark stuff and then just random gustbellow reply

[fossil finch]

Aerealite

[gray nebula]

GRAM OF SALT

🤩

[unique vector]

ill buff it for u oomfie

🚭

[gray nebula]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/851591155069485096/991732145901031544/GIF_Image_112_112_pixels.gif

thanks

[unique vector]

it probably just needs like

to be slightly faster in charge and slightly stronger in the mini corals dmg

ill tweak it in a bit

[fossil finch]

Based

[sand ermine]

@hollow shell disc invite in #suggestions-posting

if it counts, i guess

[swift wharf]

The fucking

bot

🗜️

the link
I can't

[sand ermine]

[distant gyro]

gssh this is essentially a bug report

[sand ermine]

should i remove it?

[distant gyro]

yeah i can forward that directly

[sand ermine]

alr

just something that caught my eye in my current playthrough

[tulip parcel]

Waiting for my suggestion to get transferred before I sleep

[frozen hornet]

@lyric depot adding an accessory that gives every melee weapon parries would completely remove the ark line's uniqueness

I'm not saying arks should be the only weapon line with parries but giving most weapons a parry makes arks seem like just another weapon

[lyric depot]

But I wanted to expand the parry mechanic to give more unique approach instead of the usual dmg buff

I know that we have the ark series, but it doesn’t give me the satisfaction of an actual parry

Like block then attack

Instead of a dmg buff

[frozen hornet]

You can have that without giving every melee weapon one

besides I'd imagine it would take a gigaton of effort to both implement and balance

also your reasoning of defense and DR being irrelevant is pretty arbitrary, if def and DR is irrelevant why give melee and only melee something to remedy that

[lyric depot]

Because we can just simply dodge, like everyone says in the community

[frozen hornet]

okay

[lyric depot]

And that results in the debuff of def and DR

[frozen hornet]

Have you actually used a tanking setup

[lyric depot]

Is there any tank setups at all?

[frozen hornet]

Plenty

[crude geode]

Yes?????

[frozen hornet]

there's more defensive accs than offensive accs

[crude geode]

Also

[frozen hornet]

at least it feels that way

[lyric depot]

Maybe in endgame it’s irrelevant

[crude geode]

It absolutely is not

[frozen hornet]

In endgame is when it's at it's strongest

It's clear you haven't played with it at all

[crude geode]

also

rebalance every melee weapon bc of one accessory

[lyric depot]

I did play it

The only time I tank is 3-4 hits

[frozen hornet]

Well if you did you'd at least know some setups are usable and actually do help a lot

[lyric depot]

Then why are you debuffing def and DR if it’s relevant?

[frozen hornet]

I've survived 20+ hits against scal with a mostly tank setup

when?? The reducing one defense?

[crude geode]

It’s specifically for luigi % runs

[lyric depot]

Probably because you’re playing in normal

[frozen hornet]

Like yeah warding got reduced from 15 def to 12 post yharon

but is that really all that bad

[crude geode]

[frozen hornet]

Don't forget boss damage was reduced too

and the debuff prevention they added to accs

[lyric depot]

Higher difficulties makes def and DR irrelevant since you’re basically a glass cannon now

[crude geode]

No they fucking don’t????

[frozen hornet]

I fought scal with a tank build

[crude geode]

Unless you’re playing master malice or smthn stupid like that

[frozen hornet]

Yeah

I almost did death scal too

[lyric depot]

Probably because regeneration is the meta now

[frozen hornet]

[crude geode]

[lyric depot]

😐

[distant gyro]

regen on its own struggles to be a meta since practically every boss inflicts a dot which cuts regen

[lyric depot]

But if I’m gonna tank, then I gotta do dmg right? Maybe not

[distant gyro]

a tank setup the least effective when one stat is focused

[crude geode]

This suggestion is so fucking wack

[lyric depot]

Yes, but If I want to do dmg instead of tanking stuff, then I need to remove tank items in my inventory

[distant gyro]

anyway

the real argument here is luxor's gift

[frozen hornet]

yeah and that's what speccing into something is

You sacrifice a bit of damage for a bit more survivability

[crude geode]

Even if defense and dr were supposedly underpowered, why would the solution be adding parries instead of just. Buffing defense and dr

[frozen hornet]

no build is a plain "put on this acc and you're good" you have to sacrifice your slots for it to be truly good

[lyric depot]

And then do no dmg?

[distant gyro]

the current state of luxor's gift cannot last forever and everyone who cares about balance rationally knows it

[frozen hornet]

You don't need 7 damage accs to deal viable damage

[crude geode]

Can’t wait until shrine items are removed

[distant gyro]

it is not only unbalanced for every weapon, it is also incredibly prone to exploits such as spam click mura when it existed

[frozen hornet]

you really only need 2-3 to deal average damage

[lyric depot]

It only produces projectiles when you parry

[small timber]

I have a video that is recorded just yesterday that is a summoner tanking 5 hits from master yharon

it is not quite "invincible", but not 2-3 hits; 2-3 hits and 5 hits difference is massive

[lyric depot]

Maximum of 5 hits, and what does he sacrifice?

Dmg

[distant gyro]

eventually luxor's current identity will die and another will rise in its place

[frozen hornet]

That's 5 hits consecutively not spread out

[small timber]

^

[frozen hornet]

you can survive a lot more hits if you bothered to dodge

[crude geode]

Least passionate glass cannon fan

[small timber]

ya, especially if you spread it out and make defense damage reset, that 5 hits turn into 7-8 hits

[lyric depot]

Alright, enough tank talk. I lost ok? I just want parries in the game

There’s a shield weapon where you can parry

[crude geode]

That’s fine but you shouldn’t really act like tanking is unviable just because you want parries in the game

[small timber]

there is no reason to specifically make luxor's gift do it

[crude geode]

Also that yes

[small timber]

you can just like, add a new accessory for it

[crude geode]

Which would require hours upon hours of rebalancing

[small timber]

and yes, that will be a problem

[distant gyro]

this is a blatant restate but there is a reason why some weapons have parry mechanics

[lyric depot]

It can just have like a debuff or a cool down

[distant gyro]

and not something that allow 100+ melee weapons to parry

[small timber]

unless said parry have 0 reward (no parry damage like ark etc) and the parry itself dont nullify the damage but only give like, 35% damage reduction or something against the attack

and probably will mess with any melee weapon with right click function too

[crude geode]

This sugg has 0 logical reasoning besides “I would like it to happen” and “defense/dr is somehow underpowered” which is a false argument that makes 0 sense

[lyric depot]

And then there’s def crunch

Where literally your def is lowered whenever you take a hit with bosses

[frozen hornet]

which completely regenerates within 1-2 seconds no matter how much you lost

[lyric depot]

And you’re consistently getting hit from random projectiles

But I’m forgetting there’s dodging

[frozen hornet]

you'd have to be real bad at the game to get hit every second

like almost intentionally bad to get dd to that point

and even then it only goes as far as reducing your defense to half

and by the time you got your 150+ defense to half you're probably dead from debuffs and boss damage anyways

[lyric depot]

man, I just wanted more parry weapons in the game but this mod doesn’t allow it😞

Guess I’ll take my leave

[frozen hornet]

You're arguing that the parries are crucial to making defensive builds viable

I do not see how that makes sense

Given that you're suggesting only melee get it

and not the other classes that don't have as much defense as the literal king of defense

[lyric depot]

Because literally every other class is meant to take distance and melee has to get up close to enemies to deal dmg

Oh no

[frozen hornet]

And melee has the most defense out of them all because of that

and melee has plenty of projectile weapons as well

And other classes have close/mid range weapons of their own too

And why is giving 190+ melee weapons parries and rebalancing the entire class a better solution than just buffing defense

[lyric depot]

Melee up to this point is literally ranger with melee strikes. I want to make it unique by adding parry mechanics so it’s not just left clicks

I want something more than just left click and dodge

And yes I’m melting at my own argument, but I want something more than just left clicks

[frozen hornet]

you can do that without making every weapon have the same gimmick as the arks and killing it's uniqueness

They're already working on reworking some melee weapons

You have the oathsword line and the caustic edge line getting reworks

not counting the upcoming wulfrum and aerialite reworks too

[lyric depot]

I play other games where parry has attacks instead of some dmg buff. I want to expand on it and give it more than just dmg buffs

[frozen hornet]

I get that

[lyric depot]

It’s not gonna kill it’s uniqueness, it has to be diverse. Because eventually, that dmg buff is gonna get old

[frozen hornet]

You can suggest for some weapons to get it instead of having an accessory that gives it to every weapon

Reduce the scale of your suggestion and it'd be fine

[lyric depot]

I did suggest that but someone said it would take more work so instead suggested that they do a accessory instead

[frozen hornet]

I'm sure that person didn't mean an accessory that gives weapons parries but instead has a parry ability within itself

[lyric depot]

In my previous suggested, I said we could have a whole sub class of parry melee weapons

And it doesn’t have to be that much, just enough to last through progression.

[frozen hornet]

Adding a whole new subclass would take a ton of effort

[lyric depot]

I know, but You can gradually add them each update

[ruby plover]

that doesnt lessen the effort

that just spreads the effort out over time

[lyric depot]

Basically

Like, it doesn’t have to get a new swing animation, just add a parry mechanic

Unless that’s somehow too hard to do

[frozen hornet]

Balancing it will be

the arks are still getting tweaks now even after nearly 5 months

[lyric depot]

Damn

Is it really that unbalanced? It’s fine to me

[crude geode]

Balancing is a fucking nightmare from what I’ve heard, regardless of how some weapons seem on the surface

Ion Blaster

[lyric depot]

Welp, I’m done here. I’m tired as fuck and been staying up all night. I’ll comeback here when I new idea for parrying or some dumb shit

[swift wharf]

This convo was not needed

[frozen hornet]

Well I'm lazy to look at the doc

[swift wharf]

I remember clearly that adding parries to every weapon is a Don't

and pretty cringe 😬

[frozen hornet]

I haven't checked the doc in forever 😎

[frosty trellis]

I mean

We shouldn't make radical changes like this

Bc melee is already broken as is

A ton of melee weapons are overpreforming right now due to 1.4 melee speed changes

Lets not make the testers lives even more of a nightmare

[frozen hornet]

I'm pretty sure the melee speed changes were reverted

Either way melee is just as broken as any other class

[swift wharf]

what do you mean you dont want to test 190 melee weapons

[frozen hornet]

truee

[dry scaffold]

Melee is broken because it has a whole contradictionary design in calamity

But the design on vanilla isn't also that good

In vanilla,melee have the an ok dps,but a hard range to work with and a ton of defense what just makes fights longer and more annoying

[frosty trellis]

Melee kills providence extremely quickly these days though

[dry scaffold]

Calamity tries to make melee more interesting by buffing the damage and make a little more easier to hit enemies,but this makes people abuse high def to facetank bosses

[frosty trellis]

Like, asked Xyk to test AotE, Goj and Swordsplosion, and they were all getting sub 3 minute times on a 4 minute boss fight

[frozen hornet]

Are you sure that's not just one weapon being an issue and not the class itself

[frosty trellis]

Uh, hello? Defense damage is a thing? You can't facetank bosses like that

[frozen hornet]

yeah so it is a weapon problem

[frosty trellis]

Especially on higher difficulties

Oh, the weapons I mentioned were only just a couple examples

[dry scaffold]

I know,i hadn't finished yet

[frosty trellis]

AotC has nearly draedon weapons level of kill time against SCal

[dry scaffold]

But this solution feels really annoying

Melee should have something that instead of reducing it capabilities when its get damaged,should have some sort of armor bonus to all melee armor sets that the more time you dont get hit,the more defense,DR and damage you get(and add a global nerf to melee weapons to compensate)

[frosty trellis]

That also falls under radical changes

[dry scaffold]

Yep

[fossil finch]

Can we not have arbitrary mechanics that are bound to be exploitable in some way when what we have already serves its purpose please

[dry scaffold]

But the class is quite broken

[frosty trellis]

I jus think there are a number of melee weapons that need to be toned down

Old Lords Oathsword being able to iframe though SCal's brimstone monsters is not okay

F.e.

[fossil finch]

oathsword is a known standout because it just got reworked yea

[dry scaffold]

I am just saying those thinga because melee calamity feels like a glasscanon

[frosty trellis]

I 100% disagree with that

Having done 4 melee playthoughs since 1.5.1

Especially playing Mage and Ranger as well, melee is not a glass cannon

Melee can actually take better hits

And absolutely abuse flesh totem and bloodflare core

The other thing with melee is that solar armor needs to be fixed fast

Bc I don't think being able to spam dash with that + asgards valor and therefore cheese DoG is fine

[dry scaffold]

I saw someone posting that you can cheese it by just mixing any vanilla and moded dashs

Not sure if it still works

[frosty trellis]

Oh it does

It's broken

I cheesed dog on my Master-Death melee run with solar flare dash and elysian aegis dash

Only thing i had to worry about were the lasers, but those are insignificant when I am not getting headramed by DoG

[swift wharf]

@proven folio they're gonna be added to rev+, it's just that the drops aren't working rn

[proven folio]

perfect

should i delete it i guess?

[swift wharf]

I think the bot deletes it anyway but sure

[proven folio]

thats what 🗜️ was for?

[swift wharf]

The bot reacts with it when it's wrongly formatted

[proven folio]

oh...

[frail mantle]

compression just makes the bot hold off on sending it to voting, it's only deleted by the bot if it's exclaimed

[swift wharf]

oh oops

[grim tusk]

@fair stump you know Calamity adds far more stuff for mages, and although I dont oppose more accessories make sure to take manual mana potion, mana regen and astral injection playstyles as well as chaos stone, and sigil of calamitas into account as Calamity does not add only ethereal talisman

Sigil of Calamitas is even used for ethereal talisman

[gray nebula]

lmqo

that luxors sugg implicitly acknowledging how luxors is only relevant for melee despite supposedly being multiclass

[grim tusk]

Ranger uses luxors more than melee tbh

Spam rogue also likes it

[small timber]

ya ranger is probably better

[fossil finch]

also like

they say that defense and dr are irrelevant

????

[grim tusk]

Glass cannon players

[frozen hornet]

Truly a moment

[fair stump]

your right a totally forgot about sigil of calamitas, my bad 🤦

mostly in my suggestion i was just trying to point out things i have noticed playing mage and how i thought it could use more variety.

[subtle sapphire]

For what it's worth, currently on my mage playthrough I 100% agree with you. I even made a suggestion about it

Also the "there's only one accessory added" might not be true for the whole game (mana polariser my beloved) but it's certainly true for post hardmode

Once you're done with Golem and Calamitas, you don't get a single new accessory until post DoG

[small timber]

peak performance

[subtle sapphire]

And even then, I ditched the Sigil for a magnet flower because I needed the automatic mana potions for Dark Spark

[small timber]

(just for context I am not referring your suggestion, it take some minutes to make the pic)

[subtle sapphire]

And like, when you're fighting DoG +15% damage is not much. -10% mana cost is cool but the flower upgrades give more so cheh, and the +100 max mana is cool but once again, not worth it

[gray nebula]

an exquisite meme

[fair stump]

yes exactly in every case the best setup is just a mana flower and a ton of damage accesories

[subtle sapphire]

I put defensive accessories because I have skill issue but yeah

[grim tusk]

Best settup is 2-3 mobility, 2-3 defense 2 dmg and if any remaining slot can be a stat stick or more dmg

I found that having more defense allows me to play more aggressively rather than focusing on noh*ting

[small timber]

for me personally I even most of the time only use damage accessory that also offer defense, like yharim's gift, night dark sun ring and affliction; the rest is almost near full tank

(except wings and soaring insignia)

[frozen hornet]

Fantastic

[small timber]

@shell glacier already on to-do list, the devs are doing it