suggestions-discussion

[worthy lintel]

I don't think I've seen a single soul enjoy the carpet, and I'm not talking of nohitters

[left elbow]

but it can still be a nuisance

[worthy lintel]

You usually have enough wingtime to never run out without naturally touching a surface

[left elbow]

Maybe the best course of action is removing Amulet and barrier from recipe

then changing Carpet to require Silk instead of Ancient Cloth

Ancient Cloth is simply too rare to get en masse

[hollow shell]

Flying Carpet should be put into an actual.. movement/flight-based accessory

That way you have a choice on whether you want to use it or not

[left elbow]

yes

[hollow shell]

instead of it being integral to the armor

[unique vector]

are we haaving auric armor rework discussions

[left elbow]

question is, how the actual hell do I rewrite the suggestion?

[unique vector]

you dont

[worthy lintel]

meanie

😐

[unique vector]

we already have approved an auric armor rework suggestion and unless ur specifically asking "consider removing some accessories that could be moved elsewhere/bloat the recipe" then it'd be a redundant suggestion

[left elbow]

I obviously can't add more to it, because no Nitro

[hollow shell]

Rework does not necessarily mean to remove those accs

[unique vector]

or well

its not approved yet but tomorrow

[left elbow]

Yeah, if someone already made the suggestion I'd probably know of it by now

[unique vector]

hence what i said

[left elbow]

I'm only asking specifically to remove the accessories from the recipe

[unique vector]

you could try to like

make things less subjective sorta

[left elbow]

because grinding for them all is a massive chore

[unique vector]

following rover's pointers

[hollow shell]

There was this one from 2 months ago
#suggestions-voting message

[left elbow]

I still need to keep it all in the text limit

oh

[unique vector]

just bring up key points as to why you think the accessories should be trimmed down

give a fix examples

[hollow shell]

You can still post yours

[unique vector]

thats it

[hollow shell]

2 months is a long time

[left elbow]

ok

[unique vector]

you dont need to explain everything

[left elbow]

i'll start by trimming some unnecessary introductory bullshit

this is a suggestion for the mod not a goddamn school assignment

altered the suggestion to add some points Rover brought up

also added that unless you know ahead of time those 3 accessories specifically are needed for endgame armor (and why the hell would you) it makes preparing for the endgame bosses take way too long

The only other accessory needed for armor is Lead Core, but even then Acid Rain is easy to grind so it barely matters.

Not to mention no other mods require accessories in an armor crafting recipe.

[night jolt]

Gathering Auric Ore is quite possibly the grindiest part of the entire mod, and for something that you never really stop needing, as Miracle Matter is crafted with it

[left elbow]

You'd have no reason to think an accessory is needed to craft armor. If you saw those 3 accessories listed as materials, you'd almost always think they were needed for upgraded accessories later.

[night jolt]

I must be as far as possible from being the first person to suggest a renewable source of Auric, but The Exo Mechs seem like a fine place for Auric to be renewable

[left elbow]

You'd have to specifically check the wiki long before you even have access to Auric Armor to know that those 3 incredibly situational accessories were needed for it.

Most people would reasonably check the wiki as they play, see what sort of things they can make with no materials. You logistically wouldn't care about crafting Auric Armor until you defeated Yharon.

Then you look up how much you need, only to realize "Wait, I need those accessories for armor? Didn't I sell all those Psychotic Amulets earlier on for free money? ...oh no."

[deft yew]

psychotic amulet is just,

why

[unique vector]

???????????????????

isnt auric ore the most abundant generating ore in the entire game

[left elbow]

The only way you would know in advance they were needed for Auric Armor is if you literally scanned the entire wiki before playing

[deft yew]

you only need like 1 or 2 miracle matter

but, yes

i hard agree that you need a ton of auric

[night jolt]

In pure quantity, yes, but it has a conversion rate of 60 to 5

[unique vector]

to be fair you can make this caase for everything

this is why items have the "material" mark on them

[unique vector]

oh well yea

[night jolt]

Thats effectively 12 to 1, already the worst conversion rate for ore to bar in the entire game, gathering a ton of it is just not fun lol

[left elbow]

And while I personally do scan entire wikis before playing mods, I heavily doubt most would want to do that to avoid spoiling the entire mod for themselves.

[left elbow]

Thing is, these are accessories required to make armor

If you obtained them and saw the "Material" mark on them, almost everyone would assume they were needed for a future accessory. Not for endgame armor.

[night jolt]

But the guide exists, and most people use Recipe Browser anyway

[unique vector]

yes, fair

[left elbow]

Name one other mod that has accessories required to make Armor.

exactly

[unique vector]

no

bad take

[night jolt]

I can name one other mod that turns armor into accesories, does thta count?

[left elbow]

Fargo's Souls does not count

[unique vector]

you can argue that its inconsistent with the rest of calamity and that thee accessories should be separate

[left elbow]

Soul of Eternity is supposed to be convoluted

[unique vector]

you cannot argue "oh but other mods dont do it!!!"

who cares

[left elbow]

well, point is, it's just counterintuitive

[night jolt]

Appeal to common concensus maybe, but yeah

[left elbow]

You see a weapon as a material? It's probably to make another weapon.

You see armor as a material? Unless you're playing Fargo's Souls, it's probably to make more armor.

[unique vector]

thats not rlly proving your point to assume calamity should be following what other mods are doing as a standard tbh

but i see what you mean to a degree

[left elbow]

You see accessories as a material? It's probably to make more accessories.

[unique vector]

im trying to think of other cases calamity uses an item type to make a different item type but i cant remember

[left elbow]

But 4 accessories specifically are an exception. You need them to make armor.

At least Silva Armor is only good for 2 classes, and Lead Core isn't hard to obtain anyways.

All i'm saying is there's a good reason Fargo's Mutant Mod adds banner recipes for most Calamity Items with a less than 10% droprate.

[unique vector]

which is bc it forces you to get every item to progress

[frail grotto]

sniper scope to make halley’s inferno

[unique vector]

sniper scope is weird

[left elbow]

You're thinking of Fargo's souls

Fargo's Mutant is a separate mod

[unique vector]

ic

i mean idk

i am a big fan of removing shit grinding but also like yk having some rare drops isnt a terrible design

also idk what this has to do with auric armor accessories

[left elbow]

besides who in their right mind plays Fargo's Souls with Calamity, Thorium, and SoA all at once?!

or even Fargo's souls with any of those mods

Fargo's Souls isn't even that good, but that's another argument.

[small timber]

I think just keep it short, around these points:

• Auric Tesla Armor is the best (if not only viable) armor against the two final boss: Exo mechs and Scal

• Its crafting recipe/material is extremely convoluted, requiring (somewhat) rare materials that do not really provide player benefit at that stage of progression

• Psychotic Amulet - low drop chance from Possessed armor and provide standing still bonus, which both final boss (especially Exo Mechs) completely discouraged

• Frost Barrier - Travelling Merchant item (which requires luck and player might not check Travelling Merchants end game unexpecting it is required for an end game item. Alternative method of acquiring (Ice Clasper) Ice Biome can get corrupted. On top of that, this item do not provide really any benefit against the two final boss.

• Flying Carpet - Screw over wings fall down (by which all player will sure to have at that stage of the game unless challenge run)

• As the only content post-Yharon is Exo Mechs and Scal, there is really no argument that "these effect may be worthwhile for events/farming"

[left elbow]

already rewrote

you're giving your suggestion too late

[small timber]

ya, just woke up

[keen zealot]

2.5% from a common purity enemy isn't that rare really

1/25

[hollow shell]

That'd be 4%

But I do agree that
"Psychotic Amulet is a 2.5% drop from Possessed Armor, or 5% on Expert [...] This makes it among the rarest items in Calamity." is a pretty big overstatement

Possessed Armors are one of the most common night enemies in Hardmode

The drop rate is low because otherwise your inventory would just be flooded with them, considering how many Possessed Armors you casually kill

[pure bluff]

on my rogue playthrough i got like 10-20 psychotic amulets tf do you mean rarest item lmao

[hollow shell]

Unlike vanilla, Calamity tends to lack super rare drops

[hollow shell]

with these ^ being the only cases really

Because RNG is not a test of skill nor is it a satisfying challenge/payoff

Farming is just tedium

[unique vector]

true and real

the only big case id say is legendaries but

[fringe notch]

I have to sell/trash psychotic amulets, because I get so many, especially on blood moons where I'm zerging

[fringe notch]

It's actually ridiculous how much of an overstatement that part was

[hollow shell]

@left elbow (sorry to keep talking about this one suggestion)

[left elbow]

yeah, i'd rather discussion of it be dropped altogether please

[hollow shell]

Damn

[cobalt pewter]

auric tesla full rework whem

[fringe notch]

When the devs find a reason to rework it

[hot zephyr]

i'd rather have more variety in armor rather than just reworking it because the "problems" that exist in the current auric tesla would probably be similar if not the same in a reworked version

although giving auric some updating would be perfectly suitable in my book, trimming some fat and giving some of the spawned projectiles some auric flair would go a long way

the scale of reworking auric armor would be massive, either through decoupling it from the prior sets or reworking all the 5-helmet post ML armors

while I don't really know future plans beyond the immediate, I don't think anyone is eager to revisit massive rebalancing to post-ml at the current time

[pure bluff]

wasnt it already said the devs were gonna rework auric tesla at some point

[crude geode]

Approval, not implementation lol

But several devs have said it is on their list iirc

[hot zephyr]

[pure bluff]

ok ty for clearing that up

[grave zinc]

@digital saddle - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Rework Auric Tesla armor]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@frail delta - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Allow Draedon Projectors to be placed facing either direction]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@bold peak - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make the Ankh Shield components craftable at a pre-HM anvil]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[grave zinc]

@small timber - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make Ravager Spawns More Fair (Either Spawn/Drop Slower, Further Away or Telegraphed Spawn Location)]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[hollow shell]

Speaking of. lol

[left elbow]

so any good way to find old suggestions i made?

I searched mentions of my name and nothing came up, but I know I've made suggestions

because I want to see what the status of those old suggestions wound up being

oh wait nvm figured out how to search pings

[distant gyro]

you can look up ID

[tardy smelt]

I honestly don't mind current Auric Tesla much right now. Its kind of in a "jack of all trades" position where its a nice ol' mix between offense and defense overall. Post-yharon will actually soon have quite a few interesting armor sets dangling around, with the new inclusion of Gem Tech armor, the future rework and retier of Demonshade armor and the future inclusion of Exo Armor. Auric Tesla could help offset these gimmickier armors by offering a strong, well-rounded and easy to use armor set for those who don't wanna get too gimmicky

[warped tide]

Auric Tesla is- ok

I guess

I mean I make it then ditch it for Gem Tech once the Exos die

because im a mf gunslinger

[tardy smelt]

Yup

[warped tide]

i have yet to see things get zapped by my "tesla" armor

i dont feel electrified

[cobalt pewter]

I think Auric Tesla (as I think hail's sugg told) is super held back by the "combine all previous armors" concept

[warped tide]

Personally I think Auric should

not

use all the previous armors

that should be reserved for a line of weapons that combine all previous weapons

like you know

exo armor

[cobalt pewter]

I can definitely think of ways of making the concept of combination a lot more smoother, but like, even that's still held back by said combination in the first place

auric tesla should definitely be just a standalone to me

[left elbow]

i can not find the old suggestions

i searched everything that pinged me, to no avail

[tardy smelt]

Thats up to you! Thats the wonderful part of having multiple armor sets around the same point in progression with their own prons and cons: it opens up the way for setup variety

[warped tide]

Yeah thats true

[left elbow]

can i just assume the suggestions went nowhere then?

[warped tide]

though post prov kinda sucks for all classes besides uh

mage

Mage gets Prismatic Armor

that stuff is

very

very potent

otherwise Tarragon and Bloodflare are the options

for DoG

Hell, Bloodflare needs Tarragon

[left elbow]

wait

i found the suggestions!

[warped tide]

for

uh

killing polter

no

and its barely for providence herself

[left elbow]

ok, so it was the old suggestion bot, explains a lot

[warped tide]

besides like solar

and maybe nebula

[left elbow]

why i couldn't find it so easily

[warped tide]

Solar's Dash is WOOO

[left elbow]

And why I was never informed my idea of anti-Polterghast Phantom Spirit spawn was rejected.

I'm just surprised it actually made it to the devs, shame it was scrapped

[warped tide]

Im suprised mine with the uh

Yes

this!

[fringe notch]

Bloodflare for dog is correct way and very poggers way

[warped tide]

your late game, you need to move your ass

not

sit there

with a machine gun

this isnt cod

your not on the hill

your fighting a sun god

get yo ass up

in all seriousness the set bonus is effectively worthless in singleplayer

hmmm

ok so if Vortex

could have a changed set bonus

what would yall do with it

i mean like

ideas for a different one

hmm

wait doesnt the vortex pillar have those

portals

[tardy smelt]

Mobility things

[warped tide]

hmmmm

What if it granted

a Normality style teleport

minus the increased fall speed

[small timber]

I mean the current vortex boost is good, a bit hard to use but super good

you just have to turn it on constantly and then turn it off by dashing

[tardy smelt]

Eeeeeh

[warped tide]

ah there they are

vortex's gimmick is the raw number of bees it can pump out and these portals

all the other sets reflect this

Solar has absurd ramming
Nebula uh... well

Stardust summ-

theyre different than other sets

rn its

Shroomite

but toggleable

I need to sleep on this one

a

I dont want to make a suggestion for something thats perfectly fine

[sand ermine]

@small timber

I have no idea why this already isn't in vanilla Terraria

Maybe the shield could look like the ritual visual that appears when you summon him from killing the cultists

or whatever ritual visual apprars during the fight, i forgot

oh yeah

so that makes some new lo-

[small timber]

nah they can just disable the shield during ritual

scal also disable her shield when she is charging so not exactly have no precedent

(wait this is probably not what you are talking about)

[rain blaze]

Whips are all getting autoswing with the 1.4 port, right?

[inner anvil]

Yes.

[small timber]

@hollow hare suggestion for reference for the sake of reference is part of dont for suggestion (so ya, basically the BFB, ZOMG, DDT, BAD part is invalid reasoning)

regarding the provide more option for wings part: try to provide reasoning on why the game specifically will need a MOAB/bundle of balloon style wings, especially that due to progression it will had to be either around post-Golem or post-Moon Lord, where normal wings get so good that MOAB/bundle of balloon type jump generally get outclassed completely

(the balloon jump you see in nohits do not use wings, MOAB is always with wings so dont work)

[hollow hare]

oh

i'll delete it then

sorry

[small timber]

nah it is fine, the pin message do provide the suggestion that (generally) is dont/disallowed to be made

this one > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OA3GxJ4w4QA4pCkngwt8kqW8Qq18U5KOCUJEucUS8ck/edit

[cobalt heath]

more reasons

and better ones at that

[small timber]

doesnt adding more jumps just make the item even harder to use? since you access the flying part way later

[oak heron]

ok. sorry

[round ravine]

How bad of an idea would it be to have it so that the drops from the Exo Mechs is determined from who’s picked first instead of who’s defeated last?

[round ravine]

It was?

I didn’t know that.

I’m guessing it was rejected, though?

[night jolt]

OK, am I the only one who thinks the Exo Box is way too powerful?

[muted osprey]

it is pretty strong

[night jolt]

It provides the utility of wings, a dash, and is the only item in the entire game to allow you to stop on a dime

[warped tide]

Ive been waiting for an excuse to upgrade the Moab

Stupidly fun pair of wings

[night jolt]

Especially considering bosses are planned to be added to go past the Exo Mechs, I think it almost trivializes SCal, at least in Revengeance, so maybe Yharim is gonna be balanced around having it, but it still feels way to good. Using it as basically a replacement for Wings, I barely had any trouble with either SCal or The Adult Eidolon Worm

[warped tide]

They dont offer anything base being wings though

oh hey the Exo Box

I use that thing For Scal due to how as you said “you can stop on the dime”

[night jolt]

Personally, I really don't like the MOAB. It basically just functions to me as a barrier between me and getting any height

[warped tide]

you try chaining the jumps?

[night jolt]

I'd probably like it if you could go straight from a Jump into the wings

[warped tide]

pairing with the Statis belt?

[night jolt]

Yeah, and it still felt really clunky

[night jolt]

I'm an Aegis Stan to the end

[warped tide]

Ah

Yeah I normally run them both

[night jolt]

I think its fair to let you go straight from the first 3 jumps (Ground, Sandstorm, and Blizzard) into flight, because you are already sacrificing use of the Tracers and Wings that let you fly for longer, the main benefit is the Pseudo dash you get from the triple jump

[small timber]

if the time comes when new boss is added they can just nerf exo box

as of now it is basically the main reward of exo mechs, which alternatively is similar to enchantment for scal

considering how strong enchantment is for exo, it make sense for exo box to be this strong for scal

[night jolt]

Yeah, I guess, but Enchantments (Ignoring Shattered Community) all specifically come with a downside, while the Exo Box is just objectively better than Wings

[small timber]

currently the only boss you can use exo box againts is pretty much only scal (unless you count AEW), and boss rush

so pretty much the only (relevant) thing exo box do is to make scal easier, thats it

if the item is available way earlier, like right away after moon lord then ya the item will need nerf, as of right now because of how late you obtain it it is not a super big deal
sure it is overpowered

[tardy smelt]

ill be happy to see it die in a fire :)

...in terms of boss fights at least

its super nice for building

[deft yew]

ah, exo box

KILL exo box

literally all it needs is to have momentum tbh

[unique vector]

no

die

perish

why would u give momentum to an endgame mount if something like brimrose doesnt have any

gughgh

[deft yew]

brimrose doesn't have momentum?

[unique vector]

im pretty sure that if it does its rlly minimum

[eternal escarp]

its very subtle iirc yea

[distant gyro]

brimrose and ufo have little to no momentum

[unique vector]

also ufo yea

or drill containment unit

mungus

[distant gyro]

exo box's main thing is that it takes half a second to get to full speed

[deft yew]

it what

[eternal escarp]

also recent sugg is quite good imo tbh

[distant gyro]

both brimrose and ufo take a second or more to get to full speed

[deft yew]

far as i can tell everything about exo box is instant

[crude barn]

exo box goes to full speed instantly yeah

[deft yew]

i had no idea

[deft yew]

true, true, i agree with your statement

[unique vector]

slow reaction time moment

[deft yew]

however why not just wait a fargo year for the DoG resprite/distortion for a real actual rework

[distant gyro]

nothing is instant except teleportation

[deft yew]

it will get tweaked and adjusted like another two hundred times

precisely

[distant gyro]

dog not being final is a constant of the universe

[shell grotto]

b e a m

[gray nebula]

dog gets turned into a lizard

lizard rework

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/769703744811958282/975139591533252659/2022-05-14_22-55-18.mp4

[eternal escarp]

all of the excess segments are just a very very very long tail

[gray nebula]

yes

🦎

[eternal escarp]

wtf he is so precious 😍😍

[gray nebula]

fr its gonna happen just like theres other stuff first

[eternal escarp]

that leg animation is actually really cool though, i presume you made it?

[gray nebula]

well yes or else i wouldnt be there

[eternal escarp]

true..

[gray nebula]

well technically i didn't "make it" i coded it its all procedurally animated beyond that

[eternal escarp]

well ye obv

[gray nebula]

and then bazinga i turn the lizard into perf hive

i just need to learn how to make limbs that have more than 2 joints

[eternal escarp]

simply make a leg out of many legs with 2 joints that connect clueless

[tardy smelt]

im half inclined to believe that this is just a sepulcher reskin

[gray nebula]

I hate myself for making sepulcher

now any worm like creature with arms is going to get called sepulcher

😭

[eternal escarp]

the curse of "originality"

[gray nebula]

but no it's not sepulcher it's not even remotely similar, sepulchers arms aren't procedurally animated

[warped tide]

wait DoG is getting legs?

does this mean hes going to be slower so then the long ass fight is slightly easier

[sonic yarrow]

This is fucking awesome ngl

[warped tide]

wait if DoG is getting moving legs

will the actual Storm Weaver have moving wings?

not my uh
small and ok i guess attempt at it

[hot zephyr]

super auto pets

[gray nebula]

what????

[gray nebula]

what??

posts lizard
IS DOG GETTING LEGS???

like i was obviously joking this isnt dog

[neat linden]

lizard pet

real

[rain blaze]

tfw no DoG feet pics
Ruined.

[tardy smelt]

Nahnah

it has nothing to do with the sepulcher

its simply that you have made so many misleading "leaks" by now that i have lost all faith in you in that any teaser you post is genuine

[night jolt]

I finally figured it out

Auric Planetoids

That would be the solution for Auric being fucking awful to farm

[tardy smelt]

:theshining:

[fossil finch]

i just now automatically what iban posts are true and what aren't

easy stuff to do i think

get good

also most of the fake leaks had thing that were real at the end of the day

[crude barn]

calamity x super auto pets real

[fossil finch]

more like calamity x cool walking enemies real

(iban literally said he was just experimenting for perfs' resprite movement xd

[tardy smelt]

Skimmed over that

...darn now im thinking about how the legs could be coded

[warped tide]

th

[gray nebula]

when the joke is hard to grasp

[crude geode]

Truly

[warped tide]

im absurdly dense

[shell grotto]

The real question is if DoG is getting feet. This is the internet and the community needs to know the real questions.

[gray nebula]

dog iis an eel thing

no rreasoon forr it t have feet

[shell grotto]

Im joking but yeah

[shell grotto]

Love this description though

Especially without context

[gray nebula]

cuz its true

its an eel/wym/sea draggon/seaslug creature mix

NOT an axolotl

[shell grotto]

Snake

[crude geode]

Dog isn’t cool enough to be an axolotl

[shell grotto]

Hot dog

[worn salmon]

give my man prosthetic legs

[warped tide]

no

how dare you

DoG in a bucket

[cerulean trench]

yharim leak

[deft yew]

You should stop the Yharworm jokes, NOW! ⚡

[cerulean trench]

k

watch yharim be a worm just to piss us off

[drowsy plank]

that's dumb

i dont even know where people got the idea calamity is obsessed with worms it adds like 2 or 3. we have the same number of duke clones if you're gonna genericize them that much

[crude geode]

perfs, deus, dog, storm weaver, thanatos are all examples lol. but yes the joke is pretty old at this point.

[keen zealot]

not to mention both eidolons

[crude geode]

didn't mention those because than we go into the terms of simple enemy worms

[keen zealot]

isn't AEW considered a "superboss" now?

or is that just because wiki

[crude geode]

feels kinda blegh to be a superboss tbfh

[orchid briar]

If Calamity has a ton of worm clones then half of Minecraft's enemies are zombie clones

[keen zealot]

I agree

[keen zealot]

they kind of are tbf

[keen zealot]

but they still added it to the boss checklist

[grim tusk]

#suggestions-posting message @hollow shell a just for sake of reference sugg

[hollow shell]

Yeeaaahh

[night jolt]

Maybe its just me, but I think its pretty easy with Shadowspec tier weapons

I beat it second try in Revengeance mode with just Auric armor

[hollow shell]

@hollow hare Your suggestion's reasoning of increasing the level of homage/reference to the BTD series is very weak, and is in fact disallowed on its own
(see the Don'ts doc, "References for the sake of references")

You do have the "more wing options late-game" as part of your reason, which you will need to greatly increase the emphasis/elaboration of if you want your suggestion to be considered valid

[night jolt]

Here, let me help you.

Precedent is already there for MOAB to not be a one and done, as the "Mother of all Balloons" does not have the functionality of the Sharkron Balloon, Honey Balloon, or Fart in a Balloon. Adding more and more jumps as you progress through the game is both an interesting and effective way to introduce competition to the endgame wings and Tracers.

MOAB is intended to be a harder to master, but potentially more effective substitute to wings, but its not a timesink thats particularly enticing to get used to, as by the time you can craft them, you are pretty much immediately ready to get Betsy's Wings or Fishron Wings, which have way better acceleration and flight time than the MOAB. Even those wings are introduced right before you get to make the Seraph Tracers, and lets be honest, most players are gonna make the Tracers, and not even consider putting on a different pair of wings that aren't just an upgrade to the Tracers.

I'm pretty negative on the MOAB, mainly because it doesn't feel worth it to get good at using them when the Betsy/Fishron Wings are obtainable only a little after you can make it, I'm so used to using normal wings that I don't really need the extra jumps when they'd be useful, at least in Revengeance mode, and in spite of it's uniqueness, its just not competion in Endgame when the Tracers, Drew's Wings, and especially THE CHAIR exist. I think having the MOAB also be upgradable alongside the Tracers would make it so endgame feel less samey as there is a choice to be made that goes beyond "make the best wings available at this point or use the Tracers," and by extension, make it feel worthwhile to get good at using the MOAB, because practice at it would make you better at using its upgrades.

How does this sound?

[small timber]

I think whether moab have all the balloons or not is whatever, and placing all balloons/double jump into it will not help and only make it even harder to use

the main reason it do not compete with betsy/fishron wing is because other than probably blizzard jump the jumps moab provide have negative synergy with itself, adding more jumps only make it worse

[drowsy plank]

dont remember what tier the sharkron balloon is, but if it's comparable to blizzard or the other big jumps, perhaps a version that only has good jumps could be an option, also getting free honey-like regen from your wings seems pretty decent

as long as it fits the other criteria as well

[small timber]

also for reference this is how it will work (if all balloons are added)

you access the wing way too late that you are stucked with balloon jumps for too long (unless you spam space which will make the original intention of having that many balloons pointless)

(also sandstorm jump just disappear for some reason)

[drowsy plank]

fun

[night jolt]

OK then, Afflatus's suggestion seemed pretty good to me, maybe having BFB add the honey effect and ZOMG swap out the cloud jump for the Fart

A problem is that the Tsunami jump is inferior to the other 3

[drowsy plank]

is it possible to just make better jumps, cause at some point you're going to run out of vanilla jumps, not to mention the jank that comes with relying on them

[small timber]

that will make it... super weird and specific? because it is basically having very specific balloon jump customed made into a wing

and on top of that moab is already post all mechs, so if you want to make a moab upgrade it will have to be like, at least post-Golem or even post-ML

[drowsy plank]

i think people have wanted a usable moab upgrade for a while and from the sounds of it it is not very usable

[small timber]

and at that point moab is directly competing with betsy/fishron wing, and post-ML is competing with solar/exodus wing or even elysian wing

at that point wings vertical speed get so good that it is almost always superior to balloon at vertical speed (nohit balloon horizontal jump dont count, because they dont have wings which is an interaction that simply dont happen with moab, which always have wings) just because it is more controllable

[grim tusk]

Im happy for you
Or sorry for your loss
I aint reading that

(Resume a bit, people dont like reading walls of text)

[night jolt]

A buff/upgrade for the MOAB is something people want because A. people just want the BFB and up since they already have one, and B. Its just interesting

[drowsy plank]

now im just curious how you could go about making MOAB usable lmao

[grim tusk]

Moab is extremely underestimated

But a slight buff would be nice

[drowsy plank]

tbh actually i really like moab and i use it a lot but from the sounds of what xpc was saying it seemed like the higher level community consensus was that it was bad lol

[night jolt]

the trick to the MOAB is treating the triple jump like 3 psuedo dashes you have in the air

[night jolt]

Sorry if we've been making it out to seem like its worse than the Skyline Wings lol, its just sort of clunky cause you can't access the Jetpack functionality unless you use all the jumps first

[small timber]

the thing is just alternatively you can do this which is a lot more controllable

and moab's super bad wing flight time do not help

it is 2 accessory slot but for a lot easier to use than moab

[night jolt]

Well thats sort of the point, accessory compression at the cost of not being easy to use

[deft yew]

There is one fundamental thing with MOAB

[small timber]

and that is what makes moab not the greatest, because it combine at a cost that you really cannot improve

[night jolt]

Honestly, I think just allowing you to use the Jetpack before you triple jump would make the MOAB a lot better

[deft yew]

Both of its big problems are intrinsic to Terraria and only get fixed in 1.4

[small timber]

because you can only have 1 wing equip = you cannot have more flight time, having bundle of balloon = your first jump is always slow

[deft yew]

So there’s nothing to do about it for a while, but it’s guaranteed to happen

[drowsy plank]

what does 1.4 do

[deft yew]

Well, I’m not sure about wings and sandstorm’s speed

But wings in 1.4 come before jumps

[small timber]

does 1.4 even fix balloon jump? I understand not working in vanity but the affecting balloon 1 I am not sure is intentional or not

[small timber]

this makes moab.... more garbage?

[small timber]

is this a 1.4 feature or one of those 1.4 tml change

[deft yew]

I don’t see how that could make it worse

[deft yew]

1.4 feature iirc?

[hollow shell]

Jumps have a greater level of vertical acceleration and sometimes also horizontal acceleration than a lot of wings

[small timber]

the point of moab/balloon with wings is to have a small boost (or like Mr.Mister say, small vertical dash) before accessing the wing flight which is more stable

especially that balloon kind of act as a "startup" jump midair, which means you have super fast vertical boost

[deft yew]

Jumps are for raw mobility and speed, wings are for control

[small timber]

making wing first before balloon literally just make balloon a flight time extender, which is like, useless

[night jolt]

I think a type of wings that is like, instead of flying you get huge fucking midair jumps, would be pretty cool

[deft yew]

which is why I never use jumps over wings with true melee

[hollow shell]

I have a feeling our programmers will be able to undo the 1.4 wing-jump order for perhaps MOAB specifically

Or maybe make it a config option

[drowsy plank]

"If the player has wings equipped, Pressing the ↷ Jump button will consume the next available jump instead of activating wing flight; If the player continues to hold the ↷ Jump button, wing flight will activate immediately after the jump ends. If all flight time is consumed without releasing the ↷ Jump button, the player will enter slow fall. After this, any remaining jumps may be consumed, with slow fall starting immediately after each one."

from the terraria wiki. so one of these is wrong

[small timber]

I think probably not just moab, should be overall (all case) a config option tbh

because that change will make balloon + wings completely useless

[night jolt]

Like, maybe instead of fusing the remaining balloons or replacing them one by one, maybe a hypothetical BFB accessory could just replace your wings outright with like 8 jumps that go as far as the slime saddle goes high

[small timber]

as of right now (testing in vanilla 1.4), I dont see anything like that, but if the wing first thing is true then ya

[deft yew]

Excuse me if I misinterpret this as a misinterpretation, but
The original problem is that 1.3 wings literally only let you jump and then glide. You have to use an extra jump to start flying

1.4 lets the flight kick in first

[hollow shell]

There really should be version specifiers on this

[drowsy plank]

huh

[deft yew]

Oh bruh

[small timber]

since my vanilla terraria is up to date I assume this is probably the newest version?

[deft yew]

So what I said is the middle ground and the truth is the opposite extreme

[hollow shell]

There is nothing in the Wing page's version history about jump order

[deft yew]

So you can’t use jumps if you release flight with some flight time still left?

[hollow shell]

That looks pretty definitive

Thank you for the testing

[deft yew]

Oh yeah

You can jump with flight time still left

thanks

[drowsy plank]

that is not how you format a suggestion

[night jolt]

I still need an idea for the ZOMG, but if my idea for a BFB upgrade is the baseline, I think leaning into the "hard to master, but potentially better than wings," maybe it would be fair to just give you infinite jumps outright with the BAD

[hollow shell]

You do not need to be coming up with ideas like this

[small timber]

the thing is for MOAB upgrade (to be actually super good), it requires meta gaming

aka: you specifically ask for experienced player for what is the best balloon jumps when paired with wings, and you put them in specifically

[deft yew]

true

[night jolt]

@ashen warren The Seraphim is literally a sword that generates more swords, that is already plural

[deft yew]

Stop making MOAB upgrades, go make MOAB actually good

[drowsy plank]

lol

[deft yew]

Literally Re-Logic

[ashen warren]

The sword itself is singular, no?

[hollow shell]

I mean

It's just a name, it can be whatever it want

The first weapon in its line is "Crystalline", which is an adjective

[deft yew]

adjective
adjective
proper weapon name
proper weapon name
Seraphim

[night jolt]

Seraph just doesn't sound as good as Seraphim, you know?

[ashen warren]

[drowsy plank]

we already have seraph tracers too

[night jolt]

Also "Seraph" as a name is sort of already taken with the Seraph Tracers, renaming it to Seraph only really leads to confusion

[swift wharf]

I feel like people think too hard about reference items

[ashen warren]

And chippy still calls it sephera

Lol

[ashen warren]

Indeed you have a point

I withdraw my suggestion

[hollow shell]

@fossil basin You give feedback on suggestions using this channel

[crude geode]

you're also not supposed to do those type of "in response to above" suggs

[fossil basin]

okay, sorry

[warped tide]

before I actually post this
would it be heresy or something to request a TTK nerf for DoG?

[half sage]

you'd have to back it up with kill times for multiple different weapons/classes to make a case for it being too long probably

[crude geode]

Depends on the argument they’re making

[slate turtle]

iirc dog is intended to be around 4 minutes

You probably have to be running a defense heavy loadout/underpowered loadout to be getting a kill slower than that

[warped tide]

ok yeah if thats the

intended time

thats a problem

Testing got me a ~3 minute kill with like
All the melee boosts and damage accessories
Omega Blue armor
and the Last Mourning

[frail mantle]

4 minutes with a very neutral loadout

[warped tide]

unless theres an even shorter kill time possible with better shit

then uh

DoG is slow

[sand ermine]

@gentle chasm barely any reasoning

[hollow shell]

More would indeed be nice

I've personally never seen more than one at once and they are no more annoying than the Granite Elementals that they are clones of

[crude geode]

Tbfh they don’t really serve that much of a purpose?

I think you can complain more about that then them being “annoying”

[warped tide]

Hey could someone list off some other noteable kill times

like Providence, the Exos, or S-Cal

[crude geode]

It’s on the damage reduction page for cal

In terms of “intended kill times”

[hollow shell]

I thought that mechanic bit the dust

[warped tide]

It did but I will be using the old intended times to help me out here

[crude geode]

Timed aggression still exists

Or does it

Idk but both are still on the page

[frail mantle]

TDR only exists for night Prov

[warped tide]

Wait
It says 240 for the second phase

[frail mantle]

Gone everywhere else

[slate turtle]

I mean

It kinda depends on what exactly your suggestion is

afaik all the late/endgame calamity bosses aren't supposed to be quick fights

[warped tide]

it isnt but
DoG also can

[strange sapphire]

hello, is it possible to suggest changes to vanilla mechanics here? or just changes inside the calamity mod itself?

[warped tide]

one-two shot someone whos lacking a Blood Core

and even then

[slate turtle]

Well that's kinda the nature of getting hit by hardmode worm heads

As long as you aren't playing a glass cannon setup you should be fine

[warped tide]

There

took

a while

[strange sapphire]

it seems to me that the mechanics of bullets in terraria are extremely inconvenient, if you want to use 1+ type of bullets in battle, you will have to use auto-pause and be very distracted from the battle, which is why even using a weapon of another class will be more convenient (for example, for using ichor + crystal bullets, it will be much more convenient to use a golden shower).
solution: to make a circular menu on a separate button, in which you could select a certain type of bullets/arrows to shoot

[frail mantle]

Better ammo switching would be really good but I’m not sure if it’s something for calamity to do

[slate turtle]

Looking at the suggestion don'ts document, you are allowed to suggest that. But, yeah that doesn't seem like a Calamity thing to suggest.

Seems more suited for a standalone QoL mod

[strange sapphire]

ok, I got it, thanks for the answer

[small timber]

the suggestion lost me abit since intended killtime is no longer a mechanic, so I assume it is just referencing to the "designed/intended killtime of the boss":
at the end is the suggestion just asking for a DoG HP nerf? or something similar like that?

because I think if that is the case, just say "nerf DoG HP" will be much less confusing

[hollow shell]

(Reducing the defense or DR is also an option)

[small timber]

I mean DoG already have negative DR so ya

[hollow shell]

or uhh I guess

[small timber]

unless revert to 1.25

[hollow shell]

yeah

HP decrease would indeed be the most direct and obvious

[warped tide]

(I didnt want to go with a direct HP decrease suggestion because lightening up on the body's defenses could help a bit)

[small timber]

I will be honest I really do not like the "aim the body ignore the head approach" which seem to already be prefered, but ya I guess it will make sense

since it is a worm boss where (on tier) piercing weapon is super ineffective, somehow

[warped tide]

doing it completely is

honestly

not a good idea

[frail mantle]

he has been designed specifically to not explode to piercing yeah

[small timber]

ya understandable, just trying to figure out what alternative to achieve the suggestion without just nerfing HP

[warped tide]

but at least lightening it up a bit so then it isnt a glorified crawlipede with laser walls, fire balls, and the ability to instantly turn into a super aggroed destroyer

[small timber]

another one is 1.25x head again but that will make DoG super fragile to adrenaline/high dam setup but still super tanky for average builds

[warped tide]

Stealth + Adrenaline + Rage

[small timber]

(ok dude)

[warped tide]

I would bring up Yharon also takes a while but phase two turning the circular bullet hells into homing barrages spices it up enough to make the fight fun enough

[ruby plover]

(he devours multiple gods smh)

wait

amidias????

[warped tide]

or i just like listening to Roar of the Jungle Dragon

I have bias for the boss

so like

not bringing it up for this thing

[warped tide]

no its actually seeking the pokemon mwhahahah

[small timber]

I will be honest the more reasonable approach is probably still just reduce max hp, it is abit lame but probably the (least possibility) of causing unintended effect

[warped tide]

hmmm

[small timber]

the body have 92.5% DR right now, even just reducing it to 90% will cause it to take 33% more damage from all piercing sources, multiple by all body segments

and that is a small 2.5% DR loss

[warped tide]

hmmm

heres a funky idea

remove the body's absurd DR for Phase 1

and leave em the armor for Phase 2

where hes supposed to be gaining armor

[small timber]

if they are changing it that much probably have to wait for the resprite

because the current sprite it is not super obvious, phase 1 (seems) to also have armor

[warped tide]

ah yes

DoG resprite hell

[warped tide]

yeah true

they both do

though phase two does gain an actual portal for a tail

wack

[cerulean trench]

what the ocean sailing fuck is a sea king

[frail mantle]

amidias

[cerulean trench]

oh

ok

[cerulean trench]

dog 84th resprite (it honestly barely counts as pixel art at this point)

[pure bluff]

i think what they meant is that while phase 1 does have armor phase 2 sprite looks like it gets more armor which would imply that phase 1 is weaker and phase 2 is tougher

[strange sapphire]

it also seems a little absurd to me to have DoG protection. It makes almost no sense for him to shoot at the body in any situation, a piercing weapon on him is useless because TOO little damage passes through the body

[small timber]

that is the point, you are supposed to aim for the head not the body

[strange sapphire]

I understand this, but it's a shame that almost all weapons with pierce are useless against him

[lucid marsh]

Hey I tested out the Universal genesis and the rest of its line and its dps is like half or a third of everything else at the same tier

[tardy smelt]

share damage numbers/loadout

you have been using the same setup for UG as you have for all other weapons right?

[lucid marsh]

yes

generic setup with acid bullets

wait I wasn't using musket balls for the bonus

ok nevermind its fine lol

[cobalt heath]

the newest sug is written in populistic style but the point is good imo

[frozen hornet]

Just lookie here tbh
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QOZwF0hsg7sOa30ctPQ51kct9vFt0OVKeGs0bqAuRDE/edit?usp=sharing

weeber looks squishy

[cobalt heath]

smo weeber looks cute

and that scares me

[frozen hornet]

I mean he's already smol

compared to the big bad guy

[cobalt heath]

but like

its cute

[frozen hornet]

well we haven't seen him in sprite form nor his armored version

I like him being a bab though

[cobalt heath]

its a smol angry baby

just make it dogs child

cause they look so similar

[frozen hornet]

That's like saying some random cat in argentina is the great grandson of my grandma's cat because they look similar

they're the same species but not related by blood

[tardy smelt]

i'd love to have a second bab worm

(alongside rev a-scoog)

((fren ))

[frozen hornet]

fren 🤝

[tardy smelt]

[cobalt heath]

its a cute little baby

and dog is the big baby

[frozen hornet]

then he puts on the mask (that's what the point of the mask is)

[frail mantle]

sw takes the mask off

(that's damascus)

[cobalt heath]

i wonder that what material is sws armor

[tardy smelt]

!wiki Armored Shell

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Armored_Shell

[frail mantle]

no clue but it seems kinda bronze like almost

[frozen hornet]

what the fuck

smh leon he hasn't posted the first phase

[frail mantle]

he has posted parts of the first phase

[frozen hornet]

fair

[frail mantle]

(in calval)

[frozen hornet]

I unfortunately don't exist there

[frail mantle]

then do

so you can get EXCLUSIVE leaks......

[golden tulip]

wtf is this

[frail mantle]

part of weaver's wip p1 concept art

might not be final, i'm not iban so i don't know

[golden tulip]

what in the fuck

weaver turns into a human

i am so confused

[frail mantle]

it's a mask

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/802291445360623686/974046121691336764/unknown.png

[golden tulip]

but why is it human

[frail mantle]

spooky

[golden tulip]

the lore implications go deep with that

[frozen hornet]

weaver wit da ancient tribal maske

[golden tulip]

iban singlehandedly making the worst boss good

[frozen hornet]

Are they exclusiver than art server though...

[frail mantle]

yes

[small timber]

so storm weaver is like the secret worshipped thundergod of the lihzahrd tribe or something? since the mask look lihzahrd(y)

[frail mantle]

as far as i'm aware he hasn't posted any of the wip weaver phases in art himself yet

[frozen hornet]

ye he hasn't

Which is why I didn't know about it until ender posted in DD server

[rain blaze]

Is it considered bad form to post a reworked version of a previous suggestion that didn't make it through the voting?

[frail mantle]

no

at least i don't think so

[stable musk]

devourer's head is like

🔫

Unless enough speed

🗿

[short walrus]

yoooo the

blasphemous maybe?

[gray nebula]

thers been multiple attempts at it and im not fully satisfied with it

human face because its there to hide the fact that SW is kindof more beastial than dog who's got a more "human"-ish head because hes sentient

[keen zealot]

solution: dolphins

[gray nebula]

• creepy + cherub face ties it into the god thing

[grim tusk]

Totsugeki

[warped tide]

ooooooo

though they do lack wings a wyvern/harpy eating creature would probably gain win-
wait they have wings

just only one pair

[frozen hornet]

What wings wh

[gray nebula]

wing horns things

[frozen hornet]

Right

[warped tide]

hmmm

If this thing is ment to have restraining armor

Could maybe look into maybe drawing insperation from the Eva units or they’re insperation, Onis

which already have pretty neat masks

[short walrus]

The thorns around the head remind me of blasphemous

Could probably find a mask there

[gray nebula]

penitent one is in my references

also it's not a restraining armor lol

[warped tide]

doesnt it gain alot of speed after its broken off?

[gray nebula]

idk it still makes no sense its restraining it

[short walrus]

Oh shit lmao

[gray nebula]

just makes more sense the armor is heavy so it makes it move slower

[eternal escarp]

to me its just
haha imbulky you cant hurt me i dont care that it is heavy!

[gray nebula]

exactly

[eternal escarp]

yea h

[short walrus]

Then uhhhh

Maybe the wardens of the silent sorrow?

[gray nebula]

as u can see sw is half larva and very squishy in its tail so it needs defense

[eternal escarp]

smol bab

[short walrus]

Tinky

[eternal escarp]

(shocker his tail is the weakpoint too haha get it haha it connects

byeah

[warped tide]

ah

[short walrus]

Dumbass worm doesn't know how to wear armour correctly

Point and laugh

[warped tide]

ha

👉

dumbass

[fleet igloo]

The armour mask looks kinda creepy ngl

It makes me feel something I can't describe

It's probably partly due to my expectations (small DoG -> cute) though

After thinking about it a bit, I think it could be interesting

[warped tide]

so uh

how big will this fella be exactly?

like compared to current weaver

[fleet igloo]

In terms of length I think it'll be similar to the current version, since longer worm -> harder to get to tail -> harder to hit tail

[deft yew]

assuming the whole hit the tail thing even stays

[warped tide]

it is

based on how Iban is designing it

[marsh nova]

what is like

the DOG could have a prehardmode variant

cuz lore said like

he didnt have armor

at the start

he was just a worm

kind of

[warped tide]

…

[eternal escarp]

his P1 is also, him without his armor

[warped tide]

what

Phase 1 is him without armor

[eternal escarp]

besides i dont really see what you mean

[marsh nova]

oh

right

yeah

forgot

[warped tide]

and like theres enough

Pre Hardmode worm

[marsh nova]

i mean

yeah

[eternal escarp]

people overexaggurating worm bosses as if it brings the end of the world

[marsh nova]

i guess

i just thought

[eternal escarp]

(its not a really big issue)

[marsh nova]

it would be a cool idea

but il

[eternal escarp]

the idea has other issues

[marsh nova]

ill just

go now

[warped tide]

It isnt a big deal

but it is half of the bosses

[eternal escarp]

it is

not?

[warped tide]

?

[eternal escarp]

theres roughly 7 worm bosses
out of 41

including vanilla in both cases

[warped tide]

DS
EoW
Perferators
uh
Aquatic Scourge (debate-able)

shit

backed myself into a corner there

[marsh nova]

wyrm

eidolon wyrm

and the adult one

[eternal escarp]

personally i wouldnt count perforators as a worm boss either, as the Hive is a major part of the boss

neither is Thanatos because theres more then just him

[warped tide]

yeah true

[marsh nova]

so what about the eidolon wyrm

[eternal escarp]

i indeed counted it in the 7

[warped tide]

Superboss

[marsh nova]

oh ok

i mean

ik

[eternal escarp]

DS, EoW, AS, Dest, SW, DoG, AEW

[marsh nova]

i made a minor mistake

[warped tide]

Aquatic Scourge is

debately

[marsh nova]

why

[warped tide]

a Pre Hardmode Boss

[deft yew]

AEW is not a worm

[eternal escarp]

how so
its a boss made of multiple segments

[deft yew]

unless you count when it fires shadowballs

[warped tide]

I ment

[eternal escarp]

we arent talking pre HM were talking as a whole arent we

[marsh nova]

its literally a worm boss

[eternal escarp]

..oh shit yeah i already forgot

AEW isnt a worm boss

[marsh nova]

it has segments

[warped tide]

Uhg ok let me

[eternal escarp]

the rest is for show

[warped tide]

refresh here

[eternal escarp]

only the head has a hitbox

then yeah, back to 6

[warped tide]

Aquatic Scourge is Debatably a Prehardmode Boss

[marsh nova]

no

[eternal escarp]

it, by technicality, could be
but, objectively, it isnt

(AS)

[warped tide]

Its definitely killable Prehardmode

[eternal escarp]

technically

[warped tide]

Ive done it
Youtubers have done it

[eternal escarp]

its killable, doesnt mean its the intended

[warped tide]

you can make the summon item very early on

[eternal escarp]

its like saying WoF is the first preHM boss

its possible!

[inner anvil]

Yeah, and I could kill SCal with Moon Lord gear and say it's Moon Lord tier, if it's just for the challenge!

[warped tide]

oh right

[deft yew]

old duke is the first boss

[eternal escarp]

so true

dragonfolly is clearly a HM boss

byeah

logic is slightly flawed but i think you understand it now

[warped tide]

Im going to be honest

Its like Dues Tier

[deft yew]

why does everyone say dues

[warped tide]

Deus

a

Its like the Same tier of Difficulty

[inner anvil]

Wait, it's not rouge?

[tardy smelt]

cough

[deft yew]

it's rogue

[eternal escarp]

(are you sarcastic Memes?)

[inner anvil]

No.

[deft yew]

rouge is french for red

[eternal escarp]

its Rogue, Rouge is a type of color

yeah

[warped tide]

I would

[inner anvil]

I'm not french.

[warped tide]

like

[inner anvil]

I really thought it was rouge.

[eternal escarp]

cant blame you tbh

english sucks

[warped tide]

put Folly on par with Dues
not joking

[inner anvil]

Too lazy to balance that my man.

[tardy smelt]

i dunno how exactly the intended difficulties of dragonfolly and deus compare

but as for how you experience said, well

[marsh nova]

im trying to maybe think of a new boss

i just feel like so

[inner anvil]

Don't.

[eternal escarp]

dont bother

boss suggestions are a Dont

[tardy smelt]

its subjective

[warped tide]

Deus is Post Cultest
Folly is supposed to be Post ML

[eternal escarp]

(you can check the pins for a document about what you shouldnt suggest)

[tardy smelt]

you can say that Folly is meant to be more difficult

[inner anvil]

We do yeah, indeed.

[tardy smelt]

especially since its kind of off the beaten path progression-wise

[warped tide]

You really can fight Folly like

right before Yharon

[tardy smelt]

(beating on-tier folly doesn't immediately open up the way for progression)

[tardy smelt]

but its not balanced around that

[warped tide]

That

[tardy smelt]

its not balanced around being able to be fought post-cultist either

[warped tide]

Honestly Folly is flexible

like

tiering wise

I would put em as Post Cultest

[inner anvil]

That's called non-lineal proggresion my friend.

[warped tide]

but thats just me

[tardy smelt]

in short, its balancing won't change but feel free to fight it whenever you wanna

[warped tide]

which goes down the drain post cultist

[inner anvil]

Ok.

Then do it.

[eternal escarp]

omw to
to fight DFolly before KS

[inner anvil]

It's still the same tier as it is now for us.

[tardy smelt]

if you're gonna beat him up pre-moonlord every playthrough, well- be my guest :p

but it makes no sense thematically

[inner anvil]

We made this non-lineal change in purpose, if you feel like you're good enough to take a later boss than you should, then do it.

[tardy smelt]

and streeeeeeeeech post-cultist is kinda fine as it is anyway

[warped tide]

I would recommend fight Folly before ML if your going mage or ranger for the Mad Alchemist Glove and Golden Eagle respectively

thats just me though

[tardy smelt]

i don't see how those classes are particularly terrible at moonlord with their on-tier equipment

and ^

[warped tide]

I mean it

doesnt open up uh

[inner anvil]

Non-lineal progression, boom! New technology we saved the world!
No, you didn't, you're good at the game.
(I'm not telling you specifically by the way).

[warped tide]

anything for Rouge or Summoner

[tardy smelt]

and?

[warped tide]

but it does open up shit for Melee, Ranged, and Magic

[inner anvil]

Okay, what is the point you're trying to get? That's my great question.

[warped tide]

…

[tardy smelt]

so okay, you're saying that Folly should be fought around cultist just because its already possible

[inner anvil]

I'm actually lost in the convo.

[eternal escarp]

i dont think this is a suggestion

[warped tide]

Yes

[tardy smelt]

...but you can also fight Yharon after cultist!

[eternal escarp]

i think theyre just
talking

[tardy smelt]

its possible!

why not move him to post-cultist as well?

[warped tide]

if you defeat folly

who is

honestly not that bad

just watch out for the dashes

[tardy smelt]

in truth these terms are actually kinda terrible for describing non-linear progression but im sure that everyone knows when you're meant to fight yharon

[warped tide]

and the lighting barrages

[eternal escarp]

i mean i can fight OD pre hm
should i actively do that? no i think

[warped tide]

and you should be good

[warped tide]

isnt Old Duke

like

[tardy smelt]

yep

[eternal escarp]

Bloodworms can spawn always now

[warped tide]

Post Polter

[eternal escarp]

they just get more common the later in progression iirc

[tardy smelt]

if you can manage to deal with folly with pre-moonlord equipment

[warped tide]

like you need the T3

[tardy smelt]

feel free to do so

[eternal escarp]

you dont need it

[eternal escarp]

.

[tardy smelt]

but there's no need to overhaul balancing on folly for it

[warped tide]

oh

scary shit

[warped tide]

i wasnt saying that lol

[tardy smelt]

then what are you saying

[warped tide]

It doesnt need to be balenced for

pre ML

[inner anvil]

^

[tardy smelt]

because frankly, im also lost in this conversation

[warped tide]

because it basicly already is

[eternal escarp]

..well thats false

[inner anvil]

Well, that's false.

[warped tide]

[eternal escarp]

if you can do it then
congratulations, your good at the game

[tardy smelt]

*you're

[eternal escarp]

its clearly not balanced at post cultist

[inner anvil]

^^^

[eternal escarp]

ye thanks

[warped tide]

huh

Ok I guess Im

[tardy smelt]

minor spelling mistake i win

[warped tide]

good at the game

[inner anvil]

Man discovers non-linear progression in videogames.

[eternal escarp]

ive seen a few people talk about DFolly being quite a challenge too so

its definitely just a subjective thing you see

@tardy smelt moto

[tardy smelt]

soo true!

[tardy smelt]

on my first full playthrough i did deus right after cryogen

it was tough, but fun

and demolishing hardmode with quasar was frankly hilarious

[inner anvil]

You were just good, that's why we made these changes, if people are good, let them free of fight a later boss.

[eternal escarp]

Quasar when it DIED

[worthy lintel]

damn

[tardy smelt]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[warped tide]

So uh

[tardy smelt]

byeah, the beacon's just sitting there all of hardmode

[eternal escarp]

spider coming also reminds me
this strayed rather offtopic to suggestions

[warped tide]

Folly is actually a hard boss

[worthy lintel]

👁️

[warped tide]

and Im just good

…

what the fuck

[tardy smelt]

cough

[eternal escarp]

you could be good at specific bosses, its not an alien concept

byeah

[inner anvil]

What do you mean "What the fuck"? Does the word "skill" not exist in the English dictionary lmao?

[warped tide]

This is illegal someone torch me im bad at calamity Devourer of Gods is fucking horrid

i cant

no

im not good

[tardy smelt]

.

:lo:

[inner anvil]

Well, I'm not a physcologist, I cannot help on that.

[warped tide]

oh right

I was up til like 2 am Last Night

trying to kill

Devourer of Gods

Yeah probably

Providence was a challenge

but

I actually liked the fight

felt like I was playing a touhou game

Until one of the magma fireballs pops right over my head

[tardy smelt]

those people probably praised dog before 1.5.1

[eternal escarp]

people wanted a harder DoG
now they complain its hard

[tardy smelt]