suggestions-discussion

[tardy smelt]

oh right-

I see.

[exotic stag]

yes

also from this

[earnest raptor]

I can't describe how much disappointment I felt.

[hollow shell]

@inner grail Yeah don't make joke suggestions like that

@ashen warren For the time being, don't make suggestions about Profaned Soul Crystal, just hold onto them for later
It's a dedicated item, and while the dedicatee is not completely absent, they are not currently available to grant their permission for this suggestion

[inner grail]

To quote the Lil B The Based G-d, “Suck My Dick Hoe”

[hollow shell]

Yeah sure I'll elevate it to a full Warn

[inner grail]

Okay

[glass echo]

unbased

[ashen warren]

shoot I forgot about that, my bad.

[hollow shell]

It's fine

(I don't expect anyone to know about Amber's absence)

[ashen warren]

Thanks. What are the exact rules on suggestions?

[hollow shell]

You can see them in the Suggestion Don'ts doc, in pins here and #suggestions-posting

[ashen warren]

Gotcha. Thank you

[hollow shell]

There's quite a few so you don't need to memorize em, just reference the doc before you post a sugg

[ruby plover]

Sorry if you reply to my suggestion and I don’t see it, I might be asleep… Australia moment. Won’t be gone for a few hours tho.

[glass sentinel]

hey a fellow aussie

lets go

increasing representation

[ruby plover]

Ayyy

[eternal escarp]

@digital condor side note, theres a mod that can do exactly this via a config

its called Better Multiplayer

[digital condor]

@ashen warren thanks

[eternal escarp]

wrong blast

[glass sentinel]

there are like 4 fucking blasts in this server

and 7 eclipses

[frozen hornet]

Unoriginal name tbh....

[rugged stone]

lmfao

[eternal escarp]

unfortunately one is able to get the alchemy table pre skeletron, by diving down in the dungeon and picking it up.
realistically, you cant

so uh

[half sage]

don't alchemy tables only spawn at depths where DG will kill you? if you can manage to get one without dying you've earned those potions

[eternal escarp]

yeah they do

the only way to get them like that is either a form of cheesing mechanism or very lucky worldgen and to get it from the outside

[half sage]

also you can only mine into dungeon after evil boss so it's not like you get them that much earlier than skeletron

[trim wind]

you can mine dungeon bricks with the flame pickaxe

[eternal escarp]

i mean if you are going through the hassle to scout from the outside of the dungeon where the table is

[frozen hornet]

molten needs the nightmare pickaxe

[eternal escarp]

then thats just

on you

[dense ferry]

And I mean, Skeletron is supposed to be defeated after the evil Bosses, so it's not like you're sequence breaking that hard

[eternal escarp]

ye lmao

[half sage]

^

[eternal escarp]

this is basically just

making something that wont really happen to 95% of players not happen for sure

while its really just, unneeded lol

[half sage]

unless you have reaver shark you can't get an alchemy table without beating an evil boss, which makes it not even that big of a skip, and if you have reaver you can make much more drastic skips

[trim wind]

even so

[dense ferry]

If you really just can't beat Skeletron you would have to find that thing by looking around, it is just two hundred times harder, obnoxious and tiring

[trim wind]

if the table spawns close enough you could still get it

[eternal escarp]

besides you dont get much "new" buffs from using the alchemy table

[dense ferry]

Still, you're basically not even sequence breaking, because you're getting something that you were supposed to get right after

[eternal escarp]

yeah you are still scouting the outside of the dungeon for this

[trim wind]

new potions is new potions

[half sage]

yea the post ml potions still need their post ML mats

[eternal escarp]

that means nothing

[dense ferry]

Cadance is the only REALLY useful potion there as well

[half sage]

and it needs like 40 orbs

[eternal escarp]

"wow i can get (potion that is pretty meh) 1 boss earlier!"

[dense ferry]

Soaring is literally useless because you will have no wings, Fabsol is not suitable for all players, and Photosyntesis isn't good

[eternal escarp]

theres also these two ig blike, come on do they really make any difference

[dense ferry]

(Isn't Yharim's Stimulants good?)

[eternal escarp]

this pretty much just makes a very rare occurance that you need to actively try to do not happen

its good, but like

it doesnt make that much of a diff in the long run

it especially doesnt matter that you get it early for like

2-4 bosses

[dense ferry]

Fair

[eternal escarp]

"wow i can kill Hive Mind 3 seconds faster!"

[trim wind]

crumbling potion

[deft yew]

hardmode

[eternal escarp]

yeah thats

HM

trust me i made a list

which is 99% accurate

[deft yew]

oh

[eternal escarp]

hm?

in that case i do stand corrected

[dense ferry]

All in all, that's just a really uneeded change because you're not even sequence breaking, and you're going through a much bigger hassle to get it before Skeletron, and even then, the potions you get aren't even that great aside from two at maximum

[deft yew]

so crumbling is prehm then

that's wack

[eternal escarp]

thats just like, -10 defense inflicted on bosses that doesnt have that much Defense anyhow iirc and 5% crit chance

[trim wind]

-10 def early game is pretty good

[dense ferry]

Yeah, but

You're not getting it at early game

You're getting it post evil bosses

[eternal escarp]

bosses that doesnt have that much Defense anyhow iirc
iirc QB is the only boss that gets a lot of defense

[trim wind]

you can get it earlygame

[half sage]

again, you'd be able to make it prehm anyway after skeletron, and unless you're using reaver you can't get it until like one boss earlier than normal

[trim wind]

is the table spawns close enough to the surface

where you can just jump down 5 blocks and get it

[dense ferry]

Didn't someone show that's impossible already?

[half sage]

and if you're using reaver you'll be able to do other, more meaningful progression skips

[eternal escarp]

unsure if thats really, possible? afaik it spawns deep enough always to be unreachable

[dense ferry]

Yeah, pretty sure this happens

[deft yew]

notice the lack of complaint about early water bolt

[eternal escarp]

well the wiki doesnt actually mention when it spawns

but like

it is definitely so rare that it basically never happens

[dense ferry]

And Reaver is not an argument, you can skip to Pre WoF tier straight up, so getting some more potions that you would be able to get even more easily by just killing Skeletron is not anything meaningful

[crystal iron]

This might have already been said but nothings stopping you from simply not crafting the potions

[eternal escarp]

besides this is really just
if you go the extra miles to do this then thats really just on the player

not every form of slight "progression breaks" has to be stopped

[dense ferry]

Yeah, and in this case it's just like

[deft yew]

cal kinda loves sequence breaks anyway

[trim wind]

true the halibut exists

[dense ferry]

So minor and not even a sequence break

[half sage]

yea, the scenarios you'd be able to get an alch table pre skeletron are: really lucky worldgen, getting it 1/2 bosses earlier than normal, or with a pickaxe that is the poster child of terraria progression skipping

[eternal escarp]

halibut wont exist as it does now in 1.5

and its so fucking rare that it further solidifies my point, lmao

[tardy smelt]

in fact it loves them so much you can't make suggestions that remove sequence breaks

its explicitly a don't

[half sage]

[deft yew]

ok so why is PBG still locked behind golem

[eternal escarp]

isnt it only boss progression wise iirc

[trim wind]

also

lifeforce potions too

[eternal escarp]

byeah, summary is just that this issue is really just an occurance that almost never happens, and there isnt really a reason to fix something that isnt really broken

you can find lifeforce in chests

thats not really, an arguement

[dense ferry]

Aren't Lifeforce potions craftable before Alchemy too?

[eternal escarp]

no, but they are available

[half sage]

lifeforce are hm cuz they require a hallow fish

[eternal escarp]

^

[trim wind]

shadow chests which are post skeletron

[dense ferry]

Ah, I see

[half sage]

and they're from shadow chests so still skeletron locked

[eternal escarp]

no, also Draedon chests which are PreBoss

[half sage]

oh nvm then

[dense ferry]

And again, post Skeletron, you're skipping a single progression tier

[half sage]

yea, you're scouring your whole ass dungeon for a table that is close enough to the border that you can mine to it without getting yeeted by DG just to get some potions one boss early

[eternal escarp]

m

[tardy smelt]

I'd say the sheer amount of effort it takes to retrieve one of the things should compensate for the sequence break

[half sage]

yea

[tardy smelt]

its like

a ton of effort

and it takes skill too

[half sage]

it's way more effort than getting a reaver shark, which breaks the game much more

[tardy smelt]

like a lot of sequence breaks in games like metroid

so

I'm all in for keepin it

[half sage]

yea

if someone wants to go through with this, they earned those potions as far as I'm concerned

[eternal escarp]

its really not a sequence break its just +20 HP, +5 defense and DR and like +6% damage (which is nothing early on due to weapons having low damage values anyways)

[half sage]

yea

[eternal escarp]

and this ig tho im not sure how usefull this is

[dense ferry]

[tardy smelt]

not very

I thinkm

maybe against events?

like-

blood moon 'n stuff

[trim wind]

+7dmg with crumbling
+25% max hp (sure arsenal labs exist too, with 20& max hp)
and a few other we dont really care about
however this gives a middle finger to skeletron

and gives a decent dmg buff to the aestheticus with fabsols vodka

[deft yew]

you need a princess fish for cadance

[eternal escarp]

okay this gives a middle finger to a singular boss that you had to scour far and wide to get buffs for

[deft yew]

bc love potion

[eternal escarp]

at this point its not even a sequence break its just, dealing with the same problem by a workaround way

[trim wind]

you are right, would be a shame if..

[eternal escarp]

you defeat skeletron more easily but you wasted like, way too much time for gathering buffs

[trim wind]

even so you can just directly craft it

[trim wind]

rev and specifically death mode

might be good for those modes

[eternal escarp]

come on it doesnt really make much of a difference lets be honest

its not like it magically makes deathmode Skeletron 20% easier

[dense ferry]

Nah

It's already easy enough to beat Death without potions

[trim wind]

beenades + crumbling potion would like to talk to you

[half sage]

crumbling is for melee/rogue

[dense ferry]

Beenades are already broken by itself anyways

[eternal escarp]

are beenades even affected by crumbling?
besides beenades are strong anyhow they are broken anyhow

yeah lmao

[half sage]

or do rogue bonuses buff vanilla thowing stuff

[eternal escarp]

wouldnt bee too far fetched but, regardless

[dense ferry]

You're basically fighting another Boss just to kill a single Boss more easily

[trim wind]

what way

[dense ferry]

A Boss that is way harder and tiring to do

[eternal escarp]

but the "other boss" is just the grind

[dense ferry]

Yep

[half sage]

also, crumbling wouldn't even buff the nades that much, they deal 14 damage and crumbling is a 5% buff

[eternal escarp]

they mean the Armor Crunch

[trim wind]

-15 def

[eternal escarp]

which lowers 10 def

15?

[trim wind]

ye

[eternal escarp]

hm, the other page i looked at is either outdated

or the one you are looking at is

[half sage]

again, it'd probably be easier to just kill him with normal beenades than to get a table

so like, does it really matter

[trim wind]

+7/8 dmg on bees is busted

[eternal escarp]

bees are busted anyways lol

[trim wind]

yeah this busts them even more

[eternal escarp]

hive pack alone is enough to stimulate that

[half sage]

also you might not even be able to get a table in some worlds since you'd need one to spawn close enough to the outer edge of the dungeon that you can grab it before DG comes and kills you

[eternal escarp]

it doesnt matter if it "busts them even more" if they are busted from the begining

[trim wind]

ah yes lets give a weapon a 30% dmg increase or even more against enemies with high def

[eternal escarp]

okay but the thing is

[half sage]

btw this whole bee point is moot

rouge bonuses don't boost vanilla thrower

[trim wind]

wdym

its a def decrease

not a dmg boost

[eternal escarp]

you need to scour the outskirts of the dungeon
then you need to somehow sneak in and get the table quickly
then you need to gather blood orbs for whatever potions you want (which is slightly harder since you cant summon a blood moon until post Brimstone Elemental)

these steps are already just like, way too much of a bother for almost any player

[half sage]

crumbling makes melee and rouge attacks inflict armor crunch

[eternal escarp]

if you are going to go sideways to "cheese" a boss then like, thats on you

[trim wind]

dude this is terraria

[eternal escarp]

do you know how many people dont have the patience for this?

[trim wind]

everyone in my playing group

including me

[eternal escarp]

i think i can safetly say that most people would prefer a skeletron fight being like, 20 seconds longer, then go through a that grind

[trim wind]

i would rather kill skeletron than get killed

[eternal escarp]

i dont get what thats supposed to mean

you can kill skeletron either way

its not like the player relies on this "sequence break"

[half sage]

it's literally easier to kill skeletron normally than to get a pre skeletron table, farm blood orbs, and make these potions, even on rev+

[eternal escarp]

the time you waste grinding for the stuff you want is prolly the same time itd take you to just practice the boss and defeat it

[trim wind]

tell that to my friends who suck against skeletron

[eternal escarp]

i mean your friends are a small sample group

[half sage]

also, it's not like buffs are a replacement for skill so even if you got these potions early they don't guarantee a free skeletron kill

[eternal escarp]

so uhhh

[dense ferry]

And let's not forget that you actually need to find a table

[half sage]

^

worldgen might not guarantee a table that is close enough to the border

[eternal escarp]

yeah there are chances you wont even be able to see the table unless you hace some wacky zany way to do so

[dense ferry]

And like, yeah, the sequence break exists and it fucking kills Skeletron

You deserve it for going through this proccess

[eternal escarp]

yeah, this

[trim wind]

you can get it in like 2-3 hours max

which is a lot

[dense ferry]

No

[eternal escarp]

you can practice skeletron and defeat it in 1 hour max lmao

even less

[dense ferry]

The dungeon is fucking massive

You also need luck

[trim wind]

each attempt takes 12 mins

[eternal escarp]

what??

[dense ferry]

And then you gotta wait for a Blood Moon

[trim wind]

day/night cycle

[eternal escarp]

ah yeah, fair point

[dense ferry]

Skeletron Respawning

[eternal escarp]

i mean its still just

skeletron

[trim wind]

a lot of people struggle against him

[dense ferry]

Also, if you can't beat Skeletron without this shit, it's not the Mod's fault for having this sequence break

[eternal escarp]

in atleast 4 attempts youd likely get the hang of it

[dense ferry]

And you're at this point just giving reason to actually let the sequence break in

[eternal escarp]

and if you dont, its honestly just your fault if you wanna resort to that and not deal with the fight head on imo

[trim wind]

thing is i can beat him without this shit, just my friends keep trying to do this shit and at this point im tired of doing it for the 12th run

[eternal escarp]

so

the issue isnt in the game

its your friend

[dense ferry]

Yeah

[trim wind]

(s)

yeah sure but still

[eternal escarp]

[trim wind]

as long as its there most of them will opt to doing that

[dense ferry]

Regardless, if you're tired of them trying, taking the sequence break away won't solve your issue

[eternal escarp]

honestly in that case the issue is not in the game at all
your friends are just persistant as fuck

(honestly thats worrying but quite remarkable)

if your friends rather waste like, 2-3 hours just getting slightly overbuffed with a beenade combo on skeletron then this isnt really on calamity

hell, not really on vanilla even imo

[trim wind]

sure i guess you are right

still want it taken out tho

[eternal escarp]

because i think i can confidently say most (normal) players would rather tackle the problem head on

[half sage]

the beenade combo won't even work

[eternal escarp]

tro

[half sage]

rogue buffs don't affect vanilla thrower, it's vanilla thrower that boosts rogue

[trim wind]

well then

ill guess that should stop them

well thanks for the help/change of mind, guess that suggestion was pretty shitty after all

[eternal escarp]

eh, it aint shitty

it is a fine sugg, just highly uneeded nor even to be seen even if it was to be implemented

though with everything here said

..the sugg is technically valid i think?

i dont think its actually breaking any dont, just that most of the people in the current convo saw it as unneeded

[half sage]

there's a don't about removing progression skips like eidolon tablet and temple key recipe but this doesn't fall under it

and doesn't fall under anything else that I can think of

[eternal escarp]

yeah so from a "does this actually break a Don't" standpoint, its fine

[half sage]

just kind of unnecessary cuz it's targeting such a niche thing that doesn't even have that big of an impact

[cobalt pewter]

The solutions might be dumb I think?

Personally I can see that being unintended of sorts

[grim tusk]

This sugg is essentially the same of asking to nerf reaver shark

Or getting the Sam reference to not work

[fossil finch]

Uh

Crawdad is literally one of the 3 enemies only 2 can spawn

The drop it has for absorber is supposed to be an alt for the giant shell thingy the other drops

So you won't be locked out of absorber

[hollow shell]

@willow viper ^ You know about the Crawdad, Salamander, Giant Shelly trio's availability mechanics right?

[eternal escarp]

and because it always picks 2 you will always have either a giant shelly or a crawdad and will never be locked out

[lean bone]

i think hes offline

[half sage]

I don't think the suggestion is saying you can be locked out of it, just that it would make absorber easier to craft since you'd have more options

[eternal escarp]

i mean, eh

[half sage]

at least that's what I got out of it when reading it

[lean bone]

nevermind

[eternal escarp]

its not that hard to get

[hollow shell]

Prolly better to just ask that the drop chance get increased, right?

[eternal escarp]

yeah

it sounds easier and better then re-theming it

though it would also make sense to do so to the counterpart item

[slow spruce]

i've never had problems getting the shell from shelly's but i do have trouble getting the craw carapiece personally

[hollow shell]

@shut tide Don't make suggestions based on upcoming changes

Wait until you see how they work in the in-game release first

[finite smelt]

@shut tide

[shut tide]

Oh, just took a look at that

Ok

Problem solved

[exotic stag]

i mean

[hollow shell]

Yeah this suggestion seems fine

[exotic stag]

that kinda makes a good point

yeah good point

[lilac wasp]

i think providence should only deal 120 or 100 during its star spinning phase

[grim tusk]

i have nothing to say other than git gud use blood pact if you're struggling with that

[fossil finch]

You can always play a lower mode ig

[fossil finch]

Bruhve

[gray nebula]

projectile limit GOD

[fossil finch]

@ocean sandal SIS (specific item suggestions) are a don't, they are not allowed, you can sugg a "zenith-like" summon weapon, but you have to skip naming, function, etc, check the don'ts doc

[hollow shell]

@ocean sandal This is a Specific Item Suggestion, and is a type of suggestion that is listed in the Suggestion Don'ts doc in pins

[fossil finch]

[hollow shell]

@hoary hatch Suggestions of this variety are also in the Don'ts doc in pins

[fossil finch]

(To ign)(also, you've formatted it wrong, suggs must be formatted like

Title
Reasoning

With shift enter (or the funny arrow if on mobile)

[grim tusk]

Lemme bring the sugg examples I made the other day

[hoary hatch]

ok

[ocean sandal]

That's kinda odd. I mean, item suggestions are one of the most common suggestion for mods like this. As long as it's formatted well and is understood to be unlikely to be put in exactly how it's described (if at all), it should be fine. That's just my opinion though. Won't happen again

[grim tusk]

Heres examples of suggestions to help people know how to make suggestions (please read doc tho):
Valid: ⭐
Add a new summoner exo weapon
Summoner at the moment has no exo options other than immaterializer, giving a new weapon to them would give them more to choose from and more variety rather than being restricted to immat.

Invalid: ❗
Exo L.O.T.L.
[sprite here]
Summons cyborg axolotls that rapidly fire multi-colored lasers from their mouths
Does 3000 dmg per laser
2 minion slots
20 mana per cast
Made with 1 Gastric blehers staff, 1 Tempest staff, 1 Sandshark staff, 1 Stardust dragon staff, 400 nanites, and 4 Miracle matter at Draedon's Forge
Why? It would be cool 😎

[grim tusk]

Reason as too why these arent allowed is on suggs donts doc

[hollow idol]

use my epic sprite replacer mod (shameless plug) and import old sprites if you want to see old sprites ingame

[hollow shell]

Specific item suggestions like yours were allowed for a good chunk of Calamity's history

However, the devs almost never implemented them, and it became apparent that there were many suggestions being sent into the channel that had no hope of getting in the mod, so we decided to ban them in favor of other types of suggestions that were more likely to get implemented

[fossil finch]

How many times have you pasted this already

[distant gyro]

when they were allowed they were the most common suggestion types

[hollow shell]

mhm

[distant gyro]

there were no suggestions driving for actual changes

not a lot, that is

so the suggestions concept barely got anything done at the time

[ocean sandal]

Maybe add a second channel specifically for them than, with a pin saying it's highly likely they'll never be added?

[hollow shell]

I have entertained an idea similar to that

[ocean sandal]

Idk, just seems like banning them outright is a bit weird to me

[hollow shell]

Not as a channel but as a separate server

[gray nebula]

Well I mean wouldn't it just be a useless channel

[fossil finch]

Wouldn't that be pointless anyways yeah

Why would you sugg something if it's never going to be added

[distant gyro]

it would just be a for fun channel type thing

[fossil finch]

You can just do that in other channels imo

[ocean sandal]

Maybe, but it would serve as inspiration to people making addons or just be for fun

[fossil finch]

Like cal talk or gen talk

[distant gyro]

it's not really gonna have a point

[fossil finch]

"Look fun idea i made"
No need for a dedicated channel imo
At least not here

[ocean sandal]

I enjoy making legit suggestions for mods knowing damn well they'll never be added

[distant gyro]

and channel bloats kinda eh

[hollow shell]

m, it can be a fun process
But unfortunately, unproductive

[ocean sandal]

That would be rather annoying to anyone having a normal conversation

[hollow shell]

I might dig up my old server and actually open it to the public once 1.5 drops

[ocean sandal]

Just a massive block of text appearing in general

[fossil finch]

Gen media is usually not that active i think

Cal talk sure

Also it doesn't have to be a wall of text

[distant gyro]

if it's in the main server it'd require more things to moderate on

[fossil finch]

Docs and txts exist

[hollow idol]

old server?

[fossil finch]

Or even just a concept image

(Which are granted harder to make)

[ocean sandal]

Yeah, but most people don't use those, in my experience

[distant gyro]

old server real

[fossil finch]

Idk using google docs is increasingly common

[ocean sandal]

Also, having an item idea chat would be nice for people making addons or original mods. They could scroll through for inspiration

[hollow idol]

scary

[fossil finch]

Can't wait for google to monopolize every single possible action related to the internet

[hollow shell]

Nobody's in it except for me and Thomas, cuz Thomas asked about it one time and so I showed it to him

[fossil finch]

Thomas being there is honestly the most reasonable and grounded revelation ever made

[distant gyro]

ofcourse toe nails asked for it

not atypical

[fossil finch]

Yeah but again, moderation and etc
It just doesn't have a place in this server imo

[ocean sandal]

I mean, it can't be that much of an issue. If it is, it can't be too hard to find a mod to handle a single channel

[hollow shell]

that mod would be me

[fossil finch]

You're kinda underestimating the 90k people community and all

[frozen hornet]

One person can't be online 24/7

[grim tusk]

Yea that’ll def need some more mini moderating

[fossil finch]

Doesn't this server already suffer/used to suffer from a lack of moderation in certain places anyways (mods have lives or whatever)

[ocean sandal]

Maybe, but couldn't a few people be brought on and given power exclusively over that one channel?

[grim tusk]

#calamity-mod-talk moment
And maybe #multiplayer-looking-to-play

[gray nebula]

Well that'd complicate everything kinda

[fossil finch]

You just don't pick mods also

[gray nebula]

and all that complication for barely any payoff

[fossil finch]

"Yeah you random stranger"

[gray nebula]

rover's distinct server could work better than channel bloat

:/ time for a suggestion battle royale

🥺

[fossil finch]

I'd rather like, let rover so his thing yeah than having a channel for it here

[ocean sandal]

We're talking a single channel. It wouldn't be much more work or "channel bloat" than there is now

[fossil finch]

Sunk cost fallacy or whatever

[grim tusk]

Yea server would work better than another channel

[edgy sundial]

I don't think this is a debate. Sounds like you're being told why it's not a thing already

[fossil finch]

Atiban can exo's drops all be the exact same colors it's fine bro all other calamity sets do it
(sunk cost fallacy example just so you know what i mean, it "already being a thing" doesn't mean contributing on it does nothing)

[gray nebula]

I mean it's still one more relatively useless channel compared to all the other ones we currently have that are comparatively a lot more useful

[ocean sandal]

Eh, depends on your definition of useless

I think giving fans a space to share creative ideas for items with the community is a very worthwhile thing

[gray nebula]

plus I mean it'd be either very weird to have as a channel if "THE SUGGESTIONS IN THIS CHANNEL DON'T MATTER AND WILL GET IGNORED" point is driven home properly (which would make it feel kinda useless), or it would mislead people into thinking they have a chance to get their suggestion accepted if its not properly driven home

post ur fan ideas elsewhere then

such as in calamity mod talk

[fossil finch]

Damn i wonder why forums exist

[grim tusk]

Art server also exists

[brisk bramble]

hmm
Honestly
Heres a question
Is there going to be a seperate Shadowspec Set of weapons?
Like Shadowspec tome, staff, summon staff
Or the Current Dev Items are the Shadowspec set

[gray nebula]

no

[brisk bramble]

Alrighty :p

[grim tusk]

Dev items are shadowspec

[fossil finch]

(Imagine lore server is real and there's still lore contests)

[brisk bramble]

With the new 1.5 system n stuff

[frozen hornet]

Think he meant post-scal equivalent to exo

[brisk bramble]

Ye

That

[gray nebula]

in 1.5 shadowspec will be crafted with both scal and draedon's drops

[hollow shell]

SCal and Draedon will have their own full sets of weapons
And crafting their material drops together will get you Shadowspec, which is developer stuff

[gray nebula]

scal will get unique weapons

[brisk bramble]

Ah

[gray nebula]

but not shadowspec weapons

[sleek turret]

wdym about a lore server

[brisk bramble]

Thats actually lit

halibut cannon isnt OP anymore in 1.5

Since its now like
Post ExoScal now?

[gray nebula]

demonshade will eventually become the scal armor as well (and become more unrelated to the other shadowspec stuff

[hollow shell]

It's only dropped from a superboss that's harder than SCal and Draedon, no longer from any Abyss enemy

[brisk bramble]

Noice

[hollow shell]

so yeah I don't think it's possible for it to be overpowered

[brisk bramble]

Its not Overpowered
its just Strong

at least that gives other weapons to shine tbh

There are alot of underrated weapons in cal

[hollow shell]

byeah
iunno how it's balanced currently but I imagine Halibut will be stronger than almost all other dev weapons, considering the challenge required in obtaining it

[brisk bramble]

What about Soul Edge and Eidolonic Wail tho?
Its still dropped by Juveniles?

[hollow shell]

Yes

[brisk bramble]

I see.

[fossil finch]

It would be funny if demonshade got renamed at this point
Dk if that'd be a theoretically fine sugg at least for when it gets reworked (considering by that point it'd be like completely separated of the original reference or whatever)
Not like it'd matter though

[gray nebula]

Well demonshade is a fine name for it

[hollow shell]

You can keep that in mind for when 1.5 releases

if you want

[fossil finch]

Yeah

[hollow shell]

But yeah Demonshade is an alright name for an SCal-themed armor

[gray nebula]

yeah there's shade in the name and shadow in shadowspec but it's not like it's named shadowspec armor

shadey stuff isn't inherently related to shadowspec (like that shady guy knocking on my windows every night)

[grim tusk]

[brisk bramble]

Is Pre-hm not gonna be balanced as much as Post ML?

Pre-hm to hm I mean

[grim tusk]

Maybe rogue and summoner since funny reworks

[fossil finch]

There is plans for early hm testing

Outside of that i guess they'll just test whatever comes ups, unsure if they'd do what they did with 1.5 and go over everything at a given tier

[brisk bramble]

I would say just Change the Description\ of Tyr's end

But thats up to the Dedicatee

[fossil finch]

Y though

[brisk bramble]

Its a bit misleading n stuff

[fossil finch]

???

[keen zealot]

Pierce the heart of even the most heavily-armored foe
Fires a .70 caliber sniper round that bypasses enemy defense and DR
Rounds mark enemies for death and summon a swarm of additional bullets on crits

[brisk bramble]

Fires a .70 caliber sniper round that bypasses enemy defense and DR
this one

[hollow shell]

It does bypass defense and DR

[brisk bramble]

Oh?

[keen zealot]

they will also bypass enemy defense if it is less than 1000, and bypass enemy damage reduction if it is less than 95%.

[brisk bramble]

Hmm..
Just doesnt feel like it n stuff

[hollow shell]

According to the wiki at least ^
Let me check the source code

[brisk bramble]

Cause I used it against scal

That took 13 mins

[hollow shell]

SCal has 8 million health
Tyranny's End has a base damage of 4,200

[keen zealot]

it's a single shot weapon with a usetime of 55 at base

[distant gyro]

It works 100% on SCal

[keen zealot]

is it not?

[grim tusk]

Its prob its low dmg

As you have more dps with skullmasher

[distant gyro]

everything else is due to low damage

[keen zealot]

that's less than 5k dps without boosts

endgame gear probably boosts that to like 15k or whatever

[hollow shell]

yeah, source code shows it does do the things the wiki says it does

[grim tusk]

At least its better than solo hado echo

[brisk bramble]

Well yeah
Makes sense

[keen zealot]

it has the debuff

[brisk bramble]

Cause from what I have heard
it WAS broken during Testing

and it was nerfed to smithereens

[keen zealot]

pretty sure it's meant to apply marked and do nothing else p much

[brisk bramble]

Wanna bet?

:)

[distant gyro]

RDR is barely ever a problem when considering other mods

in fact RDR is barely ever a problem at all*

[cobalt pewter]

Anti butcher like those on dog and scal are arguably more annoying

(does scal still have one)

(i honestly can't remember)

[distant gyro]

it's mostly unnoticeable in gameplay -- the poor balancing Calamity has with other bosses is due to adopting to exclusively Revengeance Mode

[brisk bramble]

DoG p1 only has the Anti butcher mechanic

[distant gyro]

and using its own set of kill times on its ancient and arbitrarily set numbers

[grim tusk]

Yea removing RDR is

Unless if its like after boss is dead (like it currently is)

[distant gyro]

I don't think removing RDR is the most far fetched thing out there

but the reasons provided for it is

Thomas had a more compelling case when he said that the fact that RDR is there fucks over the player's ultimate choice of playing the game non-linearly and deciding to overpower yourself tiers above the boss you struggle with

[fossil finch]

The main breaking argument against it is that it's barely noticeable

[distant gyro]

in theory, that is - in execution it's hardly noticeable

if you've ever done a murasama jetstream sam cheese before you'd know that the weapon is just as good at cleansing the general pre-scal population

[hollow shell]

I believe it was also Thomas that posited that RDR is poor game design for Terraria no matter how its executed
Because it shows a lack of confidence in the testers' abilities to balance the equipment available to you at a given tier

Even if a weapon is overtuned or undertuned, an RDR system with any tangible effect would bring them in line with each other in an arbitrary way that is invisible to the player

[distant gyro]

The basics of it is that RDR is either completely unnoticeable or a complete annoyance when applied to every boss

which is what we are seeing

[novel belfry]

Personally, I think RDR is redundant.

[humble jay]

breaking the game in half with cheese is an entirely different argument, i simply want this because of a few annoying things in casual play, i am not a pro by any means and play 2man but damn sometimes when we played harder modes, its been a long while but iirc friend was a mage and to have a nuke build not nuke as well as it does anything else made it feel limp and like you hit a wall

i understand 1.5 will rebalance everything again and this wont be a problem much, but holy crap some bosses since bosses are near constant stepladder theres gonna be corners of it that become extremely harder then the rest just because you cant cover EVERYTHING

maybe im imagining things but idk what else would change our dps as harshly especially if we do really good and get them lower before the alotted time as far as i understand it, its really good for people good at the game and exciting but as casuals i think we could go back and do our rev run if this option was added

all that boils down to 'i do x dps, why dont i do x dps even considering armor' which personally i find annoying and doesnt make me feel like upgrading just a bit more will do anything, get good moment i know but thats why i want an OPTION or alternative and keep it in the base game

[distant gyro]

I don't see how murasama thing is something entirely different

it basically mirrors the problem you are facing

[novel belfry]

that's because doing the jetstream sam cheese is basically just cheating

[distant gyro]

that's not the point

[novel belfry]

it's an endgame item that through an easter egg you can basically get it at the beginning

[distant gyro]

I'm saying that it's basically:
"We're doing WAY too much DPS than we're supposed to
If RDR really is an issue, then something like Moon Lord should last 4 minutes
Instead it lasts 4 seconds"

Therefore RDR isn't an issue

[humble jay]

a lot of RDR is 120 - 180

[distant gyro]

that's in seconds...

[humble jay]

thats 2 or 3 minutes of random feedback lowering

yes

[distant gyro]

4 minutes = 240

[humble jay]

do, you just think im dumb or something?

[distant gyro]

I just don't see how RDR is relevant

[distant gyro]

I know this is kinda oversimplifying it a little

but isn't that basically what you're facing?

[humble jay]

im not hitting it with nukes im hitting it with slightly more damage or burst damage and having the game say 'no', if only partially

thing is thats different from a sword user infinitely swinging is

summoners or mages that get perfect positions or shots for high damage can get it gimped and often times feel like it doesnt do as much as it should, i understand the game balance part but the feel part is what i am talking about

sure with enough replaying you can win but it never feels good to just have a health bar not be their health

especially to a hidden mechanic

and if you never find out at the bottom of a damage reduction wiki page

you'll just feel weak

[distant gyro]

the thing is that the reason provided is under an bigger issue at hand

[humble jay]

so you just skipped a few steps

understandable i get ahead of myself too

[distant gyro]

enemy dr and defense are somewhat hidden too

[humble jay]

but are consistent

hit them once and you know or they change forms and its obvious

[distant gyro]

mainly this - playing with other mods bosses make every modded boss feel sorta brittle

I'd like RDR to be removed to but this factor isn't really compelling

[humble jay]

ye thats a very personal point, specifically we had other bullet hell bosses that we can barely beat but more tame calamity ones seemed to resist damage builds

all i have are personal points as i want it as an option and even if its removed i'd like it as an option because game design wise it is smart

just player wise it can sorta sit on your face without you knowing as much

if it was tracked as a % it'd be better too

[distant gyro]

I can just throw Thomas' document in case you have some opinions on it

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Q2a8uvQ-JKesMBYj5YrpT7600WzdUvI16iMzHbrV8R4/edit?usp=sharing

[cobalt pewter]

Stolen doc

Damn

[humble jay]

this document is very based, we just get a disconnect because you are used to game design while i am just talking from isolated players point of view

basically if we are bad at a boss let us lower the timer to survive by shitting ourselves and shitting damage onto it in a shorter tighter experience since we can survive it just not for a long time

its a gameplay style choice we incidently tried that playthrough, being summoner and mage iirc

[crude geode]

RDR is bad but this suggestion is involving other mod's bosses.

That's really not good reasoning, as calamity doesn't realistically account for other mods' balance

[humble jay]

correct, just a little thing i mentioned for the bonus of if you have an option to turn it off it could work like any other mod, compatability bonus

i shouldnt have put it in the main post but it is a bonus to the option

[crude geode]

you still have the option to (and should) change it

[humble jay]

ok done

[distant gyro]

maybe I could word it like this: right now it sounds like you had a balancing issue and decided to look into factors that could affect it, then stumble across this mechanic and point it out without considering what would happen if it did not exist

it's like there's a right idea but it's not very convincing

[humble jay]

well the main problem is dps was randomly lowering in nuke builds, we werent using an insane amount of other mods mostly bosses, its fine if calamitys legendary scaling destroys them but this was a bit silly

maybe i am forgetting something its been months though

[distant gyro]

since RDR is a relatively newer mechanic and the balance dynamics that occured from it hardly changed at all

except Night Prov which is more of an intentionally designed challenge exception, people generally didn't notice its existence

[humble jay]

yeah thats fine

that makes sense yeah, even if somehow it wasnt the cause of big dps becoming becoming small pp mode into what it should be, i'd still feel better if again, a boss has x health and defense, switches sometimes like brimstone elemental but that is an obvious switch or you can do something about it

it isnt a problem to those greats that can loop a boss for 2 hours and then go for a drink

[distant gyro]

nonetheless I think it's a good idea to mention non-linearity in your suggestion

since it plays a pretty big role on why RDR is flawed

[crude geode]

indeed

[distant gyro]

basically punishing the player by nerfing their DPS if they skip a hard boss and come back to it later with better prep

[humble jay]

i cant speak on that as we never did that, we could nuke old bosses pretty good but that was like cryogen and not the really big late game ones

my opinion and complaint is something to add to the pile

you get a nuke build to shit damage, you hit boss and it seems to do basically nothing or seems average, now you feel like a confused idiot that wasted their time

AND are squishier then you'd like, while strapped into the longer then expected ride

that type of non-linearity in the mind of a player just playing the game, even if it maths out well

it just

doesnt look good

[distant gyro]

I don't think it really matters if it's an late game boss or not since all vanilla/calamity bosses use this mechanic

if that happened with Cryogen the main reason was as mentioned: RDR isn't very powerful

[sleek wadi]

RDR getting in the way of running tierskips is definitely a big deal. If I manage a pre-mech Duke kill I should get a free pass through mechs with whatever Duke drops

[humble jay]

well yeah i know super overpowering sorta breaks through it but we're more saying average fights that are close can have the fight be invisibly extended especially when using builds relying on killing the boss faster, i by no means am saying its super strong just a constant annoyance

[sleek wadi]

And if it still is a free pass then it should probably go because it doesn't seem to do anything

[humble jay]

and bad player/game feedback in my experience

[humble jay]

yeah this, it seems like overpowering it is fine and easy but if you are scraping on the tip of it it can make your fight drag on more then it should

[distant gyro]

Yeah I think that is something noteworthy about it

it's either that nothing happens or it's just annoying

[humble jay]

yep

and when you build high dps but dont skip anything, staying in the lines

it makes it feel like you should just go melee tank guy and slap dps it instead of messing with anything more interesting

again, love it for game design reasons but in reality for average players it just feels limiting or nonexistant, just enough to make that problem boss become a wall that shouldnt be as hard as it seems

but this wouldnt be the first time i had unique weird interactions with mechanics, maybe im just a weirdo

[distant gyro]

could probably be added to the suggestion

[humble jay]

im surprised there are people against it, last time i tried it was mostly just gitgud talk so i assumed that was the opinion

and will do

[distant gyro]

there are people against most mechanics but this and summoner penalty are the main ones that used to get delivered

and diminishing dr to a lesser extent

[humble jay]

well bottom line is how the player reacts to it when they eventually notice it is usually counter intuitive to how it works and they are only noticing it if they are struggling with a boss to begin with

thats my contribution to the anti RDR debate

even with the wiki finding out it exists you always go to the Armor page first and google random stuff in hopes of stumbling over the mechanic

even minutes ago when i didnt remember it was on the DR page i searched a lot

then theres the personal feeling of power argument but thats literally just personal and not as important as balance so i'll end it here

thanks for coming out and working with me guys

have a great day

[mighty knot]

@kindred creek though I doubt they're gonna revert the rogue change or malice mode entirely, you're not supposed to base suggestions on upcoming content

you can probably just scratch that part of the suggestion and your reasoning will be fine anyway

[kindred creek]

made the change

[hollow shell]

Kelvin is a dedicated item

But I don't know if this counts for the rule

[mighty knot]

I think you can modify them, just not suggest them?

cause a suggestion for PFC was allowed one time

[bold wave]

@digital condor there's a mod that does that. It's called Better Multiplayer

[silver silo]

@hollow shell hey uh is asking for something like a replacement for true shadow scales called something like ''brain cells'' (example) a dont or something that would otherwise be rejected

[dapper coral]

i would personally say that it does

[candid grove]

tf

you mean like crimson variant

[silver silo]

no I mean like literally replace true shadow scales since they're pretty similar to regular shadow scales

[gray nebula]

TRUE!

[crude geode]

honestly yeah

Hive Mind doesn’t even look like a creature with scales

[short walrus]

neither does EoW

[exotic stag]

well EOW could

the only part of hive mind i'd THINK could be scales is this

[silver silo]

by the way iban what are you working on atm (if you're allowed to say)

[gray nebula]

the armor on hive mind was supposed to be "scales" but frankly it just looks like weird plastic going around it

• since the resprite cuts down on a lot of the "shadow scale" bits i gotta make it look like somethin else anyways

[silver silo]

then...a sugg about changing it could be valid? 👀

[gray nebula]

yeah but dont make one

cuz i dont need to wait for 200 stars for that

[exotic stag]

yep

EOW is probably just skin as its shadow scale

[gray nebula]

https://gyazo.com/49e4f90ec7f138e7c011680e6269716e i am working on animating cataclysm rn and also intermittently getting distracted by doing concept art for [redacted]

[silver silo]

oh sweet

is it concept art for perforators

🤔

[exotic stag]

[dead cells moment]

[gray nebula]

Clearly not perforators concept art given its already made

[silver silo]

which one

[gray nebula]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/404775052005867530/880910119825723463/unknown.png

🛌

its in the doc

[exotic stag]

oh god

[silver silo]

I know I was joshin ya

god that concept kills me

[exotic stag]

why does it look like a half life boss?

[silver silo]

as someone who hates insects

[exotic stag]

y'know that half life boss thats just a red ball with spider legs.

[silver silo]

the one with uh...🏀 🏀 ?

[exotic stag]

i think?

[silver silo]

except in this case its a whole ass person

[exotic stag]

i think the person is being eaten actually

[silver silo]

oh thats even worse :)

[gray nebula]

the perf concept only has the person being parasited theyre not rly being eaten (the big red mass is like idk stomach bits bloated by the worms inside (the worms are tapeworm equivalents

[silver silo]

thanks I hate it

I guess thats how you're gonna keep the worm part of the fight then, was wondering about that

its going to walk rather than fly though right

[exotic stag]

actually now that i think about it it kinda makes more sense to have perf shoot out the worms from its gut now

[gray nebula]

its gonna keep the same movement pattern but the legs attempt to connect to the ground

they break off if you take it too far up (or by default if you summon it in br) (maybe give it insectoid wings to replace them)

[exotic stag]

okay so its like a jumpy spider now

[silver silo]

imagine it just bloats up and floats like a balloon

[exotic stag]

jumpy spider with wings

[silver silo]

[gray nebula]

no 👍 the balloon ressemblances are something i wanna avoid (hence giving it legs) cuz it would feel very goofy

[silver silo]

I see makes sense lol

[exotic stag]

"mm floating balloon"

byeah i stil think the perfs shooting outside of the hives bottom would be a unique concept

but we'll wait till 1.5

[silver silo]

I'm still going to ask YuH to make a vanity drop called ''worm in a balloon'' though iban you cant fucking stop me

[exotic stag]

oh my god thats still genius buffy

just make the worm in a balloon just be a perf coming out of the hive from underneath boom idea

[gray nebula]

thats the plan

but its not gonna come in 1.5 lmao

anyway s suggestion complete have you brain matter now get back onto talking abt suggestions

[silver silo]

yo pogchamp

🙏

[frozen hornet]

Did you make that just now

[gray nebula]

yes

[frozen hornet]

Holy shit

[gray nebula]

i mean its super small ofc its not gonna take long

[exotic stag]

[silver silo]

still pretty amazing

[hollow shell]

Based Iban

Looks in suggs channel, sees idea, sprites it, delivers to dev server

I don't even care that it didn't get its due process of 200 stars first
(I used to)

[cobalt pewter]

Damn

Highly based

[hollow shell]

Also I realized that Kelvin's donor is still here, so

@strange hornet if our files are correct, you're Kelvin Catalyst's donor
Do you approve of the most recent suggestion in #suggestions-posting?

[tardy smelt]

absolute chad

[grim tusk]

says nothing and leaves :chad:

[cobalt pewter]

I want to send a gigachad gif but its dimensions would be too big on my phone screen

[tardy smelt]

its too chad

[cobalt pewter]

Also the last sugg might need to be marked first until the dono responds, I think

Though I don't really object to the sugg

[hollow shell]

byeah, donor is offline so prolly should

[torn crown]

Maybe you can also ping the sugg author so they can save it right until the donor comes back online

[cobalt pewter]

Rover already did

Oh

[torn crown]

Either that or just with a simple dm

[cobalt pewter]

The author

Yea

[hollow shell]

Sure
@kindred creek Waiting on the donor to grant permission for your suggestion, cuz Kelvin is a dedicated item

[brisk bramble]

Questioj
Will the Unreal Prefix on Rogue weapons a bug or is it an implement?

[hollow shell]

It's intended

Wait

Hang on

No, sorry, I forgot Rogue already got its dedicated prefixes
Rogue weapons should not be getting Unreal anymore

[eternal escarp]

(might be an AlchNPC reforge token thing?)

[fossil finch]

if you have a rogue wep that previously had unreal it won't lose it, also

[hollow shell]

Yes it could easily be caused by any other mod that affects reforging

[brisk bramble]

Autoreforge?

[hollow shell]

Probably that if you used it, yep

[exotic stag]

@hollow shell come delete

[hollow shell]

Holy shit this is the third one in a row

[exotic stag]

oh wait he was already there

[hollow shell]

All the victims' botnet sleeper agents were activated at the same time

[spiral olive]

Quick question what was the suggestion for this again?

Some change regarding psc

[hollow shell]

Yeah uhh
That one was adding a Night Prov theme to PSC iirc

[spiral olive]

Ok thats what I figured based on the convo

Amber said she’s cool with it

[hollow shell]

Aight

@unique reef If you still have your PSC suggestion, you can repost it

[unique reef]

gaaaaasp ok

Is it okay if I put it here for proofread?

[hollow shell]

Ah

[deft yew]

frost barrier isn’t really a shield tho
i WOULD like vanity sprites for rampart of deities, ele gauntlet, that sort of thing

[hollow shell]

Your suggestions is good overall Galva, but you should remove the bit about the Guardians AI

[unique reef]

Okay

[hollow shell]

That's a separate issue that is not related to night theming

[unique reef]

Here we go

[hollow shell]

Good 👍

[rancid jasper]

i mean it's literally a barrier, it's used to make a shield (even though that may not help my case), and it looks like a shield (though that might not help my case)

[deft yew]

used to make a shield?
that would be frozen turtle shell

frost barrier actually makes auric chestplate

[hollow shell]

Frost Barrier looks like a shield and grants native defense
It should have an on-player visual, imo

But uh yeah it is not used to craft a shield

[unique reef]

I thought it would be cool if the profaned defense guardian blocked damage for you

[rancid jasper]

wait yeah its used for auric tesla

the chestplate

[hollow shell]

You can remove all that stuff in your suggestion about not knowing if your Terraria is bugged

cuz, yeah there is just no visual.

[hollow shell]

If you're talking about some mechanic where it grants you defense or DR, yes that is possible

If you're talking about it deleting or reflecting projectiles so they don't hit you, that is not feasible

[unique reef]

Okay

I saw something like that in MOR

But yeah

[hollow shell]

Our devs have decided not to touch projectile blocking/deletion, very headache-inducing for balance and making sure everything in fights work properly

[unique reef]

Makes sense.

[hollow shell]

Relic of Resilience used to block projs but it was changed because of this

[deft yew]

Don’t rampart, ele gauntlet, and a bunch of other accs lack a vanity sprite?

[hollow shell]

Yep.

[rancid jasper]

okay so probably fix those too? unless its too much work for you guys

[deft yew]

tbh it’s just another way to annoy iban
1.5.1 with the delayed stuff would be good ig

[hollow shell]

You could rework your suggestion to include them too

[rancid jasper]

oke hol on

[hollow shell]

Add equipped sprites for shield-like accessories which do not already have them
Such as Frigid Bulwark, Rampart of Deities, Frost Barrier, Shield of the Ocean, etc

or somethin like that

[deft yew]

oh i forgot bulwark and ocean shield didn’t have one either
that include ornate shield?

[hollow shell]

Ornate actually does have one

[deft yew]

That’s like not being able to place victide bar

lol

[hollow shell]

(also Astral Bulwark and Hide of Astrum Deus are arguably shields as well)

[deft yew]

oh yeah

[rancid jasper]

yeah actually some of these (okay, all of these) dont really make sense

[deft yew]

Since frigid bulwark is a shield made with a shield, astral bulwark having a sprite would make sense

Hide of AD I’m not too sure about tbh

[hollow shell]

Astral Bulwark and Hide both lack inherent defense, which works against them being considered shields

But, we'll get there when we get there

[deft yew]

Ahh

[rancid jasper]

oke. dont rush it

[hollow shell]

Also FrightenedForge, I have a more salient reason why these shields should have equipped sprites:
Brand of the Inferno
It specifically has interactions with shields that have visible sprites, allowing you to block with them
And this allows you to get a defined list of what accessories are and are not shields

The fact that very shield-like items like Frigid Bulwark cannot be used with Brand is strange
(especially considering Frigid is an upgrade to Paladin's Shield, which does have a visual appearance and is therefore considered a shield by Brand)

https://terraria.fandom.com/wiki/Brand_of_the_Inferno

[grim tusk]

@rancid jasper future content suggs are a dont

[distant gyro]

also already happening

[hollow shell]

Yeah you uhh, can't make suggestions about things in changelogs

[distant gyro]

we just didn't mention it

[deft yew]

And here we are with a bot that approved the “add sentries” sugg

[rancid jasper]

oke. yeah that makes more sense now that ya say it. i'll try not to do it again

[grim tusk]

Yea suggs has been more liberal atm

May be a social experiment?

#suggestions-voting message 6 to go

[hollow shell]

Sorry, which sugg are you talking about?

[grim tusk]

#suggestions-voting message also this final repost confirms my hypothesis of adding “Buff” to the title makes people more likely to star it as well as adding that people would be more inclined to vote if its a known item and that briefer suggs have more success

[grim tusk]

#suggestions-voting message

[deft yew]

#suggestions-voting message

iirc there was another that got deleted

[grim tusk]

Despite it being a subclass sugg it still got to voting (and delivered even)

[deft yew]

me when bad connection

[grim tusk]

Sniped it lol

[hollow shell]

I guess that sentry sugg could have been fleshed out more with its reason

But, they never did mention a sentry-only playthrough

[grim tusk]

Well thats true

[hollow shell]

It was more just, the weirdness of a weapon type being present throughout the entire game then suddenly ending before DoG

[grim tusk]

It was better than other sentry suggs, that I can agree with

[deft yew]

Yes but I realized one issue with post-DoG sentries
Scal and maybe yharon are extra vulnerable to sentries because of arena limits

So adding a later sentry would just let you kill scal really fast

[grim tusk]

Also curve flattening and malice will make Carrion and Guidelight far better

[hollow shell]

That is true and that is also true

[grim tusk]

Rather than just 15k more dps on Scal (asume min max), around 3-6k otherwise

[unique reef]

I'm usually lucky and can get Guidelight within a couple kills lol

I always wondered about why we get our last sentry from Old Duke

[fossil finch]

about the sugg posted, even though exclaimed because future stuff, aren't the cost increasing anyways (which is not in changelogs)
I also have 0 idea how the fuck does increasing the cost add more dopamine according to that last line but like ok

[hollow shell]

btw @rancid jasper I wanna make sure you saw this

... huh

Do other accessory-summoned minions obey summon targeting?

[wicked dirge]

no idea

[hollow shell]

GSA Sons are quite blatant considering they are the same minions as ones summoned from a staff

[wicked dirge]

i just noticed it while doing summoner scal and trying to target a specific brother

[brisk bramble]

Are there any like
Compressed Air-based Weapons?

[hollow shell]

That's awfully specific

Why do you ask

[brisk bramble]

Eh
Just curious.
It would be interesting to see a weapon soley based on Crowd Control.

I wouldnt suggest it or anythin
just a concept of a sentry that pushes back enemies n stuff

[ashen warren]

I mean, Medusa’s head is kinda like that

Crowd control

I mean

[brisk bramble]

Not really as much
I would say like it damages then AND pushes them back
Kinda like the thundergun from zombies

[ashen warren]

Also we already really have good enough weapons that could both function as boss killers and crowd control.

[brisk bramble]

Fair

[hollow shell]

I guess we don't have any weapons that are dedicated to moving enemies around rather than dealing damage
(aside from high knockback melee weapons like Slap Hand and Titan Arm)

I can think of some weapons which kinda serve that purpose incidentally by just, having a good amount of knockback

but none dedicated

correct me if I'm wrong.

[brisk bramble]

I even have a name for one too
Subsurface Resonator

[hollow shell]

You could make a suggestion about that if you want
About how it'd offer a new type of support weapon, having niche but useful uses
Area control

(don't name it in the sugg tho or anything like that)

[deft yew]

There’s also Grand Dad, which works on guardians during provi btw

[frozen hornet]

Sounds useful for summoners when the minions are away killing enemies from the other side of the world

[brisk bramble]

and really useful as a whole,
say that you are building n stuff

And ya want the mobs to back off

[hollow shell]

Yeah
I can see why you'd want a sentry for that

I was thinking like a big blower weapon but it'd hard to make it worthwhile to push the enemies away instead of just killing them with a DPS wep

whereas a sentry is passive

[deft yew]

Could be a really slow sentry with a powerful AoE projectile

“Concussion Cannon”

[brisk bramble]

Subsurface Resonator

[deft yew]

Maybe it stomps and causes quakes that launch enemies up?

[frozen hornet]

Lightning rod (or whatever that OOA sentry is called) but with knockback instead of damage

[hollow shell]

^

[crude geode]

there are several weapons like this, they are just mostly ignored due to not being boss damage

[deft yew]

Force field kind of thing

[crude geode]

Blast Barrel is the most blatant example, it's boss damage is absolute trash but the extreme knockback combined with it's damage and pierce make it godly for crowd control

[deft yew]

Blast barrel is bugged anyway

[brisk bramble]

I see

Also It is based off on a buildable in CoD zombies of the same name

its the concept that is really interesting
a weapon more akin to Defense rather than Offense
ofc it still does Dmg but not to an extent as like
other crowd control weapons :p

[crude geode]

reference for the sake of reference

[deft yew]

^ ngl

[brisk bramble]

🤷‍♂️

[deft yew]

(Reference while still being good and unique is fine by me)

[brisk bramble]

I mean, we can still grab its concept :p

[sleek wadi]

If such a weapon had a weak projectile reflect too, like say being able to blow away any projectiles by anything that isn't a boss it could have use in events too

[crude geode]

I mean

the effect of knocking back enemies should be enough

projectile reflect would make it kinda braindead

[deft yew]

It’s not like enemies can shoot at you instantly

They take a second to shoot once in range

[sleek wadi]

A sentry with a strong AoE pushback and weak reflect for the purposes of arena building and events. Sounds like it'd be a neat patreon item I guess

[brisk bramble]

this.

the concept can be similar to rhe pic I showed above. :p
Its all about super-compressed air n stuff pushing enemies back.
Or Sonic booms who knows

[sleek wadi]

Not needing to deal with offscreen stingers while making a plant arena would be real helpful

[brisk bramble]

Jungle arena building is Pain

Specially the Tortoises

[fossil finch]

Kinda
Uh
Pardon my French
Kinda sis-sy sugg

[sleek wadi]

It is which is why I think it'd make for a good patreon item, not a sugg

[deft yew]

there isn’t a minion in like the whole game with good knockback, is there?

[brisk bramble]

or a sentry for that matter

It can even be useful outside of summoner

[spiral knoll]

I feel like the Yharon summon should be post devourer of gods.

[hollow shell]

As in, Dragon Egg?
Nah, Calamity intentionally allows you to fight then in any order for the sake of player freedom

Also I'm pretty sure you can prioritize dashes in vanilla based on what acc slot the dash is in
but that didn't translate over to tMod and/or Calamity

[cold cosmos]

I tried that already

It’s always the valor dash

[hollow shell]

yeah

[cold cosmos]

Just some way to prioritize dashes would be nice

[spiral knoll]

you have a point but at the same time no one is going to fight it as soon as you beat moon-lord

[hollow shell]

But the point is that you can, and there's no reason to restrict the player from doing so if they want to

[brisk bramble]

is the Asgardian Oversight fixed in 1.5?

[hollow shell]

What're you referring to?

[brisk bramble]

The Asgardian Aegis oversight

[torn crown]

multiple dash accessories clashing with each other is a bug iirc

[distant gyro]

the elysian aegis being accidentally better is fixed if that's what you mean

the 4 iframe issue is hopefully fixed

[brisk bramble]

Yes
The one where Asgardian does not have the Regen

[frozen hornet]

What was the 4 i-frame issue?

[brisk bramble]

weird :/
I had more I frame dashes with the asgardian than the elysian
I even managed to do three in quick sucession

[distant gyro]

(there were a few attempts to fix the iframe issue but it doesn't want to work fsr)

[distant gyro]

basically when you dash through an enemy with a ramming dash you have a chance to just get hit many times in a row

usually happens with slower bosses like levi or polter

[brisk bramble]

Or yharon

[frozen hornet]

Damn

[brisk bramble]

That occured mostly when I fought Yharon tho

I got three tapped when yharon just
stopped..

No iframe
jsut three fast hits n ded

[frozen hornet]

Does final dawn have a similar problem?

[hollow shell]

Yeah cuz the thing is, hitting an enemy with a dash gives you a small amount of i-frames so that you don't get hurt by your own move
But cuz of the way it was programmed, it was possible to have your i-frames get reset over and over while you were inside a hitbox and still technically executing a dash, the dash i-frames overriding the getting-hit i-frames

[brisk bramble]

So in layman's terms

You are in Determination Breaker for a short amount of time?

[hollow shell]

Yeah pretty much

[brisk bramble]

when it happens

Sucks :p

[hollow shell]

Rest in Peace, Determination Breaker

[brisk bramble]

Does the Asgardian suppose to have a Longer dash than elysian?

[small timber]

does anyone else find that pre-boss light gears for Death Mode is a bit lacking? wanted to make suggestion for that but want to know if it is just a "me" problem

except shine pots not really many thing else works

[hollow shell]

Pre-boss has Campfire, Mining Helmet, Shine Potion, and Shadow Orb
for a total of 5 lighting, which is max
(of course that's if you're speccing for complete darkness negation)

[brisk bramble]

The start of death mode is supposed to make you feel vulnerable or smthin
idk

[small timber]

campfire is stationary, mining helm is good, shadow orb can be unrealistic (most people break 1-2 and 20% drop chance), shine pots is the only real option

at least for me

it always feel like just lacking +1 light level that cannot be get elsewhere than shine pots

[hollow shell]

I mean, s'not a super big deal if you gotta deal with 15% or 35% reduced brightness underground in pre-boss
You're not really digging super deep underground in pre-boss anyway

[torn crown]

doesn't D-breaker still have i-frames from the default one?

[small timber]

ya maybe just me with lack of lucks for finding heart crystal so had to dig deep, but with draedon update demo is selling shines so it probably is fine

[hollow shell]

hmmyeah

I guess it is good to overprepare in Death before facing any bosses

[small timber]

i guess i might still post the suggestion? since I don't think it fits any of the "Don't", since it is just 1/2 +1 light gear instead of nerfing death mode underground blindness

[hollow shell]

Yeah you can suggest it, it wouldn't break any rules

[small timber]

thanks

[hollow idol]

would changing the colors of either the profaned energies or the flame projectiles at night be considered a bug report or a suggestion, they're currently inconsistent and it's the second most mildly infuriating thing in the mod in the live version

[silver silo]

thats a thing? 🤨

[hollow idol]

been a thing since night provi was added

[silver silo]

sounds like a bug to me

[hollow shell]

There are two possible solutions

[hollow idol]

turn energies blue or make new projectiles specifically for the energies ye

[hollow shell]

Okay three solutions then

Cuz one is adding a check in the projectile's code for if Providence is alive before turning them blue

so

depending on the solution you're aiming for, it could be a bug report or a sugg

Cuz the Profaned enemies don't have night sprites currently, that'd require new white sprite sheets, to get tinted just like Prov

and that'd fit more as a suggestion

cuz it'd affect Scorn Eaters and Immolators too for the sake of consistency

[hollow idol]

sounds fair, I think I'll go that route

[silver silo]

well...they do appear on the overworld too

would be cool seeing night versions of them in the hallow

[hollow shell]

Yeah

(I usually default to thinking of them as Hallow enemies before Underworld)

[hearty yew]

im slow but rover is it common knowledge yet that reactive dr is being massively changed in 1.5

like

i'm always slow on this because i never check this channel unless pinged or unless i think i have something really important to say about something already in #suggestions-voting

i feel like if it isn't public knowledge yet it should be on the update document

that thing is months out of date because we never stopped making systemic changes

😒

[hollow shell]

Isn't the only change that it no longer affects bosses after first kill? And that Malice keeps it even then?

[hearty yew]

i think that's right

[hollow shell]

So, you would still have to deal with it if you're struggling to beat the boss for the first time

[hearty yew]

hm actually you are right that doesn't impact this suggestion at all never mind

[hollow shell]

It's good to bring up regardless

[silver silo]

by the way whats the first most mildly infuriating thing in the mod

[hollow idol]

leviathan pixel.

[silver silo]

[hollow idol]

(already fixed next update)

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/685754600560787477/895895302245072926/adot2png.gif

[silver silo]

its a feature

he just has a small tick on him

[hollow shell]

Good suggestion, xpcqe326

[small timber]

ya, had experienced with my friends where they almost quit because they cant deal with underground blindness so I pay a lot of attention to it

(they didnt use mining helmet because it is not "real armor" which only make it worse as they are working at 0 light level)

[hollow shell]

mm, it can be hard to break from a 'set bonus' mindset

[small timber]

just personally a "mining lamp" might work, didnt suggest it because don't know if it is considered specific item

[hollow shell]

Yeah what you have right now is acceptable

[grim tusk]

Question: why was it deleted rather than turned into an item like Chain and Ball torture

[hollow shell]

No reason for it to exist

Its challenge is redundant with Armageddon

and we have enough challenge items as is

And even people who do challenge runs hardly use it..

[grim tusk]

IH i could say is similar in terms of being redundant

[hollow shell]

Iron Heart's mechanics are at least unique and have had mechanical and asset commitments

[grim tusk]

Well thats true

[hollow shell]

DT Breaker went more or less untouched since its implementation, virtually forgotten

aside from one change to make it kill you in lava to prevent cheese

[dapper coral]

DTB was just funny haha sans reference wasn't it

i wouldnt even call it a challenge item, it was a gimmick

[grim tusk]

But I feel like nearly all of the player base just sees it to be shoved alongside arma (to either brag for 1 extra difficulty that barely changes stuff, or to abuse certain items) rather than being used on its own

[hollow shell]

Indeed, it doesn't see nearly as much use as Arma or even Defiled
... probably because it's pure challenge with no benefit, and its mechanics are a bit more obtuse than "no-hit" or "no-wings", making it less popular

[grim tusk]

One of the main issues (which i explained on my IH sugg that went pretty bad) was that early game is complete bs while late game gets trivialized by the plenty of options to use to lifesteal

Low on hp? Just use viscera, empyrean knives, rare sand elemental, profaned soul artifact, vamp talisman…
Meanwhile pre-hm only gets bloodstained glove and mana polarizer upon its second half

[hollow shell]

Heart drops still heal, don't they?

[grim tusk]

Yes but hearts as we know are rare

[hollow shell]

Hmmmm

[grim tusk]

#suggestions-voting message my sugg on IH, i feel likee i explained it better there

[hollow shell]

Yeah I can see this addressed in your suggestion

Yeah. Your sugg would be a better system, I think.
Instead of relying on a few select lifesteal options, you'd have the increased drops from enemies and periodic drops from bosses as universal options

(And that would open up the possible but unlikely opportunity for Iron Heart to actually be worth switching to for certain encounters, if its systems provided more reliable healing than you have access to at the time)

[grim tusk]

(Totally did not think of this, this seems deeper than i thought, could perhaps be an interesting challenge)