suggestions-discussion

[balmy jewel]

And for the reasoning, I don't really have much of another reason other than it'd be neat and fit with the increased work surrounding th wyrms

Sorr :((

[hollow shell]

It's alright

Aaand @cold cosmos that's a post-ML weapon balance suggestion. See the top pin in this channel.

[whole sedge]

Yeah this is in direct violation of most recent pin so

[cold cosmos]

Whoops

I never read those

Sorry

[hollow shell]

:\

But, yeah, it's probably gonna get fixed anyway in 1.5

[cold cosmos]

Still

I feel like currently the cosmilamp is just kinda worthless

[hollow shell]

You can see how it does when the update releases

[cold cosmos]

Will do

[whole sedge]

And it'll likely get changes in 1.5 also due to being a Post-ML rebalance

[hollow shell]

(It might still be worthless but chances are it'll be better)

[cold cosmos]

Alright

Deleted it

[fossil finch]

thanatos summon confirmed no way!!!11!!1!1!!1

[gray nebula]

WHAT

NO WAY ..

[grim tusk]

Your probably not using its capabilities properly

[hollow shell]

It does seem like the most recent tests before (and soon after) 1.5 started development showed Cosmilamps as being pretty balanced

Performed pretty equal to its competitors, looks like it was the most consistently good option while other options at that tier needed certain circumstances to perform their best

[fossil finch]

like plague jets not fucking missing

[grim tusk]

Yea summon outside of min max and slot stacking is surprisingly balanced on live

With some shenanigans here and there

[humble socket]

what if one of the future boss was sort of like a time control boss

and hed have the ability to reverse some effects/events in a battle?

[hollow shell]

That's

[fossil finch]

[muted osprey]

Eridanus referen?????

[hollow shell]

Yeah you can't suggest new bosses

[fossil finch]

that's a concept people have used and a concept that's interesting but yeah uh don't

[fair radish]

I wouldn’t say it’s a flaw, it was more like adding throwing in 1.3 which was a flaw from Re-Logic, making it so melee just had all these throwing type weapons like boomerangs which literally could be counted as “throwing” which threw off what was melee and what was throwing, it’s pretty clear now since the class was removed and since only ranger weapons use ammo, therefore despite it being a little awkward the throwing knives and the javelins make sense being ranged

While Shadowflame Knife being a non-consumable makes sense being melee

[grim tusk]

question, why do wulfrum pylons have contact dmg, almost died to one in hardcore lmao

[hollow shell]

Interesting question

They could prolly have it removed to be in line with us removing it from all Caster and similar enemies

[fossil finch]

Then you'd also need to buff the spawnrate thing at the same time, otherwise it will not only do nothing, it also won't even be capable of damaging you

[grim tusk]

i just had 2 wulfrum pylons to see if they increased the spawn rate of the others, i got mostly slimes and then 1 pylon despawned

[fossil finch]

[grim tusk]

has it been considered another use for energy cores besides wulfrum armor?

and why does coin of deicit need acid wood?

and wouldnt it make more sense to make throwing bricks on a furnance?, they are also hella expensive

[fossil finch]

They're not really

Don't they take like

A brick

Which is not really anything

[eternal escarp]

huh, never noticed its specifically acid wood ever

also yeah its not clay into the throwing bricks

its from red bricks to throwing bricks

[fossil finch]

Yeah like you could argue you're "undoing" the bricks into smaller pieces to throw

[grim tusk]

still why only 15 bricks

a single wulfrum scrap makes 50 knives

an iron bar + wood make 50 franciscas

[eternal escarp]

thats something else to talk about

[hollow shell]

Starter Bag has bricks

150 of em

[grim tusk]

and i almost ran out of em in 1 day

had to go underground and get more

[dim star]

Tbh the victory shard suggestion is actually reasonable

they just don’t fit with the current mod

[fossil finch]

Clay is much more common than wulfrum scraps and iron bars with wood though

You can easily get like 100 clay blocks on day 1 with zero problem

[heady storm]

Why rely on the funny bricks way later.

[fossil finch]

Yeah

[whole sedge]

I mean yeah as potentially expensive bricks can seem there's way better rogue weapons that you can spend your time on instead so it's not that big of an issue in my eyes and more of an incentive to not use the starting bricks you get

[heady storm]

Utilize them to kill Wulfrum enemies and them turn the scraps into knives.

[ashen warren]

When the

[frozen hornet]

funny spriter class

[ashen warren]

@latent dagger you cant suggest a new class

definitely a dont lol

[frozen hornet]

Ye

[mighty knot]

oh boy

you're gonna want to read the pins

there's a bunch of formatting and stuff that you're missing

[latent dagger]

Ah damn my bad

[mighty knot]

should tell you how to do it

dw about it

[ashen warren]

so uh, delete it

[manic aspen]

why tf aren't throwing bricks made with fired clay

this mod really has a thing for recipes with blocks

[ashen warren]

why add an item just to be a material for one thing

[manic aspen]

what

[ashen warren]

why make fired clay exist to just be turned into bricks

[frail mantle]

what is a "fired clay"

[ashen warren]

no point in it existing

[manic aspen]

well bricks are made with it?

fired clay exists

[ashen warren]

no

theyre made with clay blocks

[frail mantle]

still don't know what a fired clay is

[ashen warren]

the brick blocks that is

[ashen warren]

something they think exists i think

[distant gyro]

probably means clay through furnace

[manic aspen]

I couldve sworn this item existed but i can't find it

[distant gyro]

as in clay crafted at a furnace

because an actual item like that doesn't exist

[ashen warren]

[frail mantle]

yea throwing bricks are made with brick blocks because you basically just break apart the block into individual bricks

[manic aspen]

hm

its still too expensive

[ashen warren]

its supposed to be

[manic aspen]

well why

[ashen warren]

its supposed to be something you use to get better weapons, from iron and stuff

its not very good

[distant gyro]

don't forget to mention that the original statement isn't even true

when you have coin of deceit+

[crude geode]

wait what?

[distant gyro]

coin of deceit allows stealth strikes to occur at 75% stealth, rather than full

and ruin med 50%

[crude geode]

oh yeah

ty for the reminder

[keen zealot]

this entire section of conversation is painful to read

@manic aspen throwing bricks are made out of fired clay in the form of Red Bricks.

[crude geode]

This was already kinda explained to them

[frail mantle]

yes i believe he is aware due to already having been told

[keen zealot]

reaffirmation never hurts in hammering in a point

[safe oasis]

there is no point here though, just a correction that had already been corrected

[crude geode]

^

Just kinda rude

[earnest cape]

You mean for draedon weapons? Its already being added next update

[frail mantle]

@mint steppe ^

[earnest cape]

I have officially ran out of space fpr your notes leon

[mint steppe]

Removed

[earnest cape]

[frail mantle]

surprised it didn't happen sooner

[earnest cape]

havent been seeing this server much

[hollow shell]

@river drum Just Zerg + Battle Pot + Water + Chaos Candle in the Ocean
A ??? alive at pretty much all times

[fossil finch]

??? Ends up being annoying ngl

reason the effect to remove her exists

[hollow shell]

Yeah usually the problem is ??? being too prevalent

ye
That lore item effect is staying, via a new item

Thank goodness.

[river drum]

Really?

I rarely get it

'rarely"

if I stick to the ocean I'll get it quickly enough to fight

having an item to quick spawn basically all bosses would massively reduce the time spent grinding for legendary items, although those does seem to be designed that way

[mighty knot]

(legendaries are obtained differently next update so I don't really think that matters, since if the suggestion was implemented it would be for next update)

[river drum]

oh

well

nvm then

lmao

[hollow shell]

Yeah they'll be ||guaranteed drops from a more challenging version of the fight||

[novel belfry]

Honestly, I find it still weird that the Anahita/Leviathan fight doesn't even have a proper summon item

[hollow shell]

I am okay with it.

In fact I'm glad they've gone this long without it

[novel belfry]

and no, Zerg Potions don't count

[grim tusk]

#suggestions-voting message
If we needed more examples for this sugg
if i didnt have gladiator armor + 2 accs on warding there would have gone my 7th hardcore attempt

#suggestions-posting is quite empty

is there a way to alternatively increase hp to life crystals?
similarly to with mana stars and the mana star fish?

feeling like that may be a good idea for consistency (ofc the fish would have to be very, very rare)

[fossil finch]

There is

I think

[grim tusk]

wait is there?

[clever canopy]

I don't think there is

There's a recipe for heart crystals but that's it

[whole sedge]

Yeah it's just a recipe I think? would be a nice way of getting heart crystals though and that benefits all classes unlike the mana star fish

[grim tusk]

alr

[sleek wadi]

The recipe is also horribly mistimed though, having bones in it IIRC

[grim tusk]

that recipe shouldnt even have bones at all

by the time the player fights skeletron they should definetely have 400 hp

and pink gel is already scarce enough in the early game

[fossil finch]

It has bones because it's for catching up

[sleek wadi]

I'd axe the bones from the recipe myself, finding a pinky is barrier enough

[fossil finch]

At least that's the reason a dev gave back then when a sugg was made about removing it i remember

[grim tusk]

Add a fishable alternative to life crystals
It would add consistency with enchanted starfish, which increases mana and would be an alternative to searching for the crystals in the early game, making them very rare would still make crystals usually better. Early game focuses too much on exploration but sometimes specially on higher difficulties it can be though due to the rarity of life crystals at this point and the dangers of the underground and other biomes such as desert, jungle and evil biomes very early on, the fish could act as a small boost so that the player can explore more in the early game (possibly even add a cap to the number of usable fish so that the player still has to search for life crystals) and prepare for boss fights

hows this?

[fossil finch]

Found it

Ib also said this

I've swear i saw a sugg about life crystal fish lemme look what was said about it if anything

[grim tusk]

maybe having it ask for shadow scales, tissue samples, true shadow scales, blood samples or aerielite bars

now that i've been playing hardcore, i've noticed theres a lot of problems with current early pre-hm

[ashen warren]

as far as i'm aware, the fish mana things are already pretty controversial

[fallow hedge]

isn't the life crystal getting an easier recipe in 1.5 anyway

[grim tusk]

wulfrum enemies being rare as fuck for example

[eternal escarp]

isnt that

a straight up dont

[fallow hedge]

that is a DNP

absolutely

[whole sedge]

Oh boy another pillar for rogue thing
Pretty sure this is the definition of a "Don't post this" but why does rogue need a pillar when it already suffices with meld blobs and why do we need to make an already boring, grindy event even more painful? @mystic anchor

[sleek wadi]

The mana fish are controversial because getting 24 stars is practically free, the life crystal recipe is borked because its too late to be useful. Like I guess it makes heart lanterns renewable? MAYBE helps top of all the goons you're playing with in multiplayer?

[eternal escarp]

its not specifically mentioned, but it would 100% be rejected

Meld Blobs exist

[mystic anchor]

To make it more consistent?

[whole sedge]

Consistency isn't required when the class already suffices and the event frankly needs less pillars

[eternal escarp]

okay, theres a few issues with it

theres a reason rogue doesnt have a pillar

[fallow hedge]

sometimes enjoyment will take priority over consistency

[sleek wadi]

5th pillar is not happening, would fall under too large.

[eternal escarp]

1. no space
2. pillars are stupid anyways

[fallow hedge]

Lunar Pillars are already a pain in the dick to many so

[fossil finch]

Ah yes

This is the

[mystic anchor]

I can agree with that

[still zodiac]

Talking about heart crystals, I remember in the #changelogs it was mentioned that the recipe was changed for them

[fossil finch]

Third one this millenia

[fallow hedge]

yeah

bones and pink gel are replaced with some stone

[fossil finch]

It's not that much but the fact more than one person thought to sugg it is a lot ngl

[still zodiac]

To actually be pre skeletron

But having a fishing alternative would be nice ig

[fossil finch]

Anyways at mod

Exclamation or outright deletion when it

[whole sedge]

Fishing alternative would be neat to give more actual use to fishing rather than just making it super easy near instantly but yeah

[fossil finch]

What

[zenith hazel]

rogue pillar is likely never happening @mystic anchor

[fossil finch]

How does making fishing only more viable "gives more actual use to fishing" like it doesn't already have it lol

If everything it just makes fishing funnier

[zenith hazel]

very much high effort for an already annoying event, plus meld blobs aren't considered a lunar fragment

[sleek wadi]

Found the life crystal change, being change 147. Alright problem solved I guess.

[still zodiac]

Indeed

[grim tusk]

no problems here? so that i can slap it into #suggestions-posting

[still zodiac]

Looks fine

And a cap to how much hp you can get from these fish is interesting

[sleek wadi]

5 stone, 2 rubies, 1 healing potion. Good recipe, still has a lot of exploration which was the intent behind the current recipe but can be done pre-boss.

[still zodiac]

Or atleast would be an interesting idea

[fossil finch]

It would help with the fishing GOD issue

[grim tusk]

thats a very cheap recipe not gonna lie

[half dawn]

yeah but who actually fishes tho. Fishing with one lure is boring and multiple lures are too late into the game for lives

[grim tusk]

thats more of crates being an issue but iirc they have been dealt with

[still zodiac]

Yea

Crates aren't as funny anymore

[sleek wadi]

No more funny early-HM mining trip skip with the big early-HM rework

[fossil finch]

a lot of people actually fish because calamity hands you absolutely everything you need early on and fishing is funny as fuck (as in holy fuck it's practically op)

[still zodiac]

Alluring bait my precious

[sleek wadi]

Fishing also has a couple of other funny stuff like getting hm weapons in pre-hm

[fossil finch]

i mean if they can be gotten pre hardmode they're not hm weapons

[safe oasis]

Early game focuses too much on exploration but sometimes specially on higher difficulties it can be though due to the rarity of life crystals at this point and the dangers of the underground and other biomes such as desert, jungle and evil biomes very early on, the fish could act as a small boost so that the player can explore more in the early game (possibly even add a cap to the number of usable fish so that the player still has to search for life crystals) and prepare for boss fights
run-on sentence, could barely follow it

not true, because by that logic leviathan and scourge drops are prehm

[fossil finch]

intended progression when it

[still zodiac]

Its just that Slurper pole is funny

And the fact that obsi swordfish isn't locked behind HM

[half dawn]

Early game explore. Explore hard when high difficulty. Fishing give hp. Hp make explore easy.

[still zodiac]

Only locked behind a lava pole

[fossil finch]

do people use obsi swordfish though

does anyone bother

[sleek wadi]

If they find out about it yes, funny luxor interaction

[fossil finch]

because tbf getting funny lava pole is harder anyways

[half dawn]

who actually uses any spear up to nadir

[still zodiac]

Stream gouge exists

Terra lance is good on levi and aureus

[safe oasis]

who uses nadir

[half dawn]

biome blade is better

[sleek wadi]

So does Starnight Lance

[still zodiac]

Lmao no

[half dawn]

You can easily do levi with the terra blade as well

[gray nebula]

hat e fishing. gr

[grim tusk]

there fixed punctuation

[fossil finch]

only levi drops lava pole and if you're figthing levi pre hm you clearly don't fucking care about using obsi swordfish and fuck angler (fuck angler)

byeah

[safe oasis]

[fossil finch]

funny weapon is funny

[gray nebula]

Wouldnt say early game focuses too much on exploration it just focuses on iti

(good)

Mfs want to swap the fun part of prehm with boxing yourself in and waiting

[half dawn]

I love how I deleted PLG and Levi with the plantera legendary weapon in my ranger playthrough

[grim tusk]

thats why i suggested possibly capping the amount of hp adquirable with the fish

like up to 200 hp, but putting numbers is a dont

[fossil finch]

Iban solve pre boss calamity and make it good and not an instant skip somehow idk your a dev you can clearly do that

[still zodiac]

Just flip a switch maybe

[fossil finch]

True

[half dawn]

calamity is becoming too focused on personal preferences that ignore the general opinion. You can pull out any piece of the change log and 9/10 people will have the same answer. Its either stupid, or It depends on context, or its a nice change

[fossil finch]

Uh

What the fuck

[gray nebula]

idk i dont do the changes

so true* i mean

[fossil finch]

Guy when wrong

[gray nebula]

Tho in this case i doubt the general opinion is that fishing is more fun than exploring

[sleek wadi]

Calamity started out as personal changes, if vanilla was fine we wouldn't need mods

[half dawn]

I read like 100 of the upcoming changes and holy crap like 80% of it is so painful to read

[whole sedge]

I enjoyed fishing the first time I did it then it got repetitive with rewards I raelize that I care less and less about

[fossil finch]

did you know that's your personal opinion

and not "The general opinion"

[keen zealot]

well yeah. that's basically every possible response.

[hollow shell]

"You look at any changelog, and the change is either bad, good, or in the middle"

[fossil finch]

You look at any opinion and it's a bad opinion or a good opinion or a meh opinion

[keen zealot]

jokes aside, I think it would be nice to see a poll of satisfaction with the changelog, just like a 'rate it 1-5' kinda thing

[crude geode]

You look at any polls with a option of 1-5 and the result is 1-5. Completely polarized.

[keen zealot]

alright then, 1-3

good, bad, or i don't care

[whole sedge]

I mean not really the best way to do it on content people haven't played with at all yet hence why mentioning changelog shenanagins in suggs is a bad boy thing

[fossil finch]

Imagine being logical

[hollow shell]

We made sulph sea enemies immune to like everything because "they evolved in a difficult environment so they adapted to be resistant"
It makes sense to make the hell enemies immune to hell debuffs at the very least

[grim tusk]

would it be reasonable to request to increase the crafting yields of hardened honeycomb, bouncy spiky balls and all of the hm ore rogue consumables?

[hollow shell]

You could suggest that.

Honeycomb in particular looks a bit brutal

[grim tusk]

10 per craft

[hollow shell]

(gotta fix the wiki rq)

[grim tusk]

at least throwing bricks are so easy to make that they yield few, but honey comb is kill QB to craft 150-200 honeycomb per kill
Rot balls and tooth balls yield 10 times that amount

[hollow shell]

Oh wait

Honeycomb is also dropped by QB

That makes up for it a lil

[grim tusk]

like 30 of em, meanwhile the hive bosses drop way more

[hollow shell]

yeah, compared to the Hive boss crafts
Honeycomb still looks stingy

[grim tusk]

nice pun

[hollow shell]

didn't notice

[hollow shell]

Ïncrease

[grim tusk]

non american keyboard moment

ñ

[hollow shell]

Your typing ability is more versatile than most.
More options.

[grim tusk]

actually yea

are you actually gonna sugg something?

oh nvm

[hollow shell]

Nah that was a misinput

Your sugg looks good

[grim tusk]

immunity (and/or dmg reduction) to searing lava would be nice (similarly to how lava charm line makes you immune to lethal lava burn), it would probably have to be locked behind Brimstone elemental for balancing but thats a suggestion for another day

[hollow shell]

Maybe tying it to Abaddon

cuz Abaddon on its own is uhhh

not very useful

[grim tusk]

ye

[muted osprey]

two suggs at 200

one about changing the name of the difficulty items and another about giving an alt recipe for sigil of calamitas

[dim star]

#suggestions-voting message we’re so close

[grim tusk]

@timid flower
already will be done next patch

[still zodiac]

I'd argue this suggestion doesn't matter atm because of post-ML rebalancing and stuff

[grim tusk]

Supernova rework

[still zodiac]

That too yea

[grim tusk]

And possibly exaline (if it gets in)

[still zodiac]

So possibly 2 homing weapons

Also infernal spear

[grim tusk]

I’ll miss current supernova, despite not being very good its really fucking fun to use and mess around with (if you want it to actually be good just use the broken accs shit)

[still zodiac]

Which will be auric tier next update

[grim tusk]

So rogue will have 3 homing weapons

[still zodiac]

Doesn't sound too bad

[timid flower]

rellay? i check the change logs so is it not done yet?

[grim tusk]

Not done, but has been mentioned alot in #calamity-update-talk

[timid flower]

oh

[still zodiac]

Yea not everything is mentioned in the changelogs

[grim tusk]

Specially before the year change

[timid flower]

well i just wasted 10 minutes writing an essay on a already thought of change

[still zodiac]

It happens

[signal glade]

What if the swarmer gets changed if you have the Plague mind equipped changing the gun into the theme of plague?

[grim tusk]

Although it would be cool, its probably too high effort

[ashen warren]

love seeing suggestions by an @ and a random string of numbers

keep it up social security card

[grim tusk]

Yea sugg bot does that sometimes

Although its sometimes probably you not having loaded that person

[ashen warren]

i think it’s because the person they @‘d left the server

[whole sedge]

Something about pings being weird and if someone hasn't talked recently enough or been mentioned recently for your discord to cache it funny stuff happens

[fossil finch]

if it was people that left the server there would be almost no pings like that bruhve

[sleek wadi]

Heavenfallen Stardisk upgrade suggestion reached 200 stars

[distant gyro]

not the fastest climb i've seen

[grim tusk]

weapons with gimmicks that reward you for using em are very interesting and fun to use

although star disk might need some tweaks so it aint weak as fuck without gimmick but busted with it

[grim tusk]

i just noticed something: the number of planter boxes the planetoid lab gives is inconsistent: Got 18 daybloom, 16 waterleaf, 14 moonglow and death weed (corruption, and im on a Crimson world), 15 shiverthorn and 0 blinkroot

[fossil finch]

it never gives blinkroot for some reason

[grim tusk]

alr I know what my 2 daily suggs are gonna be

[radiant meadow]

Not giving blinkroot is probably an error

[distant gyro]

yep

I remember putting it on dev fixes like 6 months ago

[ashen warren]

or idk maybe blinkroot just wasnt on the menu

blinkroot is kinda op to have pre eoc

not quite op, but a bit ridiculous to have as a replenishable resource

[grim tusk]

Imma put the suggs here so they can be checked before i put em in #suggestions-posting when i can post another sugg

Make Abaddon provide resistance or immunity to searing lava
The Searing lava debuff makes the Brimstone crags very hard to navigate due to the threat of the lava inside, although it makes sense at first of being deadly; this issue is present for the whole game. On the other hand we have Abaddon, a Brimstone elemental drop which provides resistance to the brimstone flames debuff, which doesnt do much and is only known for being absorbed by Asgard's valor.
Making the item reduce or disable the damage from the searing lava would "kill 2 birds with one stone" by making Abaddon more useful and allowing better exploration of the brimstone crags once Brimstone elemental is defeated.

[hollow shell]

Planter Boxes don't have any special interaction with the plants placed onto them

[ashen warren]

lets you harvest them aa far as im aware

[grim tusk]

as so can a flower pot

but planter boxes are prettier and take less space

also helps you be organized with your plantations

[hollow shell]

Well yeah I'm sayin that being given a Blinkroot planter box doesn't increase your Blinkroot supply or replenishability

Also that sugg looks good Storm
I only question the use of the word "notorious" in that exact usage

[ashen warren]

notable is the word i think he might be looking for

[eternal escarp]

Known feels like a better candidate.

[grim tusk]

Make the Space arsenal lab's planter boxes drops more consistent and increase the number of planter boxes given
It seems to always have an inconsistent amount of planter boxes (5-9 per chest), does not give the crimson variant of the deathweed box in crimson worlds and does not give any blinkroot.
Making the box give an increased number of planter boxes with equal amount per type as well as give the respective world's deathweed box as well as containing blinkroot boxes would make it more consistent and better for setting an herb farm in the early game.

[grim tusk]

alr 👍

[ashen warren]

i think having a close window for how many can spawn, for example, 15-20 would make more sense in general

[grim tusk]

i'd say for em to always have an equal amount of boxes of each type (10 of each)

[grim tusk]

rather than this

[hollow shell]

current range seems to be 5-9

[grim tusk]

per chest

[hollow shell]

... hmmmm

[grim tusk]

and the lab has 2 of em

[hollow shell]

per chest yeah

[ashen warren]

imo it adds more character, it would make the player look at farming something they perhaps had not considered

[grim tusk]

indeed

[eternal escarp]

if its random by like, 2 to 1 numbers ig its fine but i always have this smal nitpick about using them and then it not being the same lengths

thats just me though

[ashen warren]

u can just not use the excess

[eternal escarp]

yeah but thats just wasting a planter.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,.,.,.,.,.,

[ashen warren]

if the range is 20-15 total you have at least 15 of eacg

[eternal escarp]

byeah

[grim tusk]

i'd say that it should be around 10 boxes of each type per chest

[eternal escarp]

tbh 10 isnt a lot

[grim tusk]

per chest

you'll get 20 total in the space lab

[eternal escarp]

ah, so like

yeah alright

makes more sense then

yeah that could be finer

[ashen warren]

i think 7-10 per chest would be a good range

also does anyone else just not use draedon tech bc of its charging cost

that shit is annoying

[grim tusk]

with 4 factories I produce way more than i need

i have like almost 4k of em

and charging tracking disk doesnt take many to charge

as well as it takes long to deplete its charge

also has it been ever considered increasing the daily sugg limit?

3 suggs per day perhaps?

[hollow shell]

You can stick with 2 per day, you greedy
You already have both of the only suggs in the channel and plan on immediately posting 2 to replace them once they get delivered

[grim tusk]

alright, just wanted to know

[ashen warren]

storm2103 fiending suggestuons

[grim tusk]

Storm2103 | Suggestion supplier

[keen zealot]

note that you can grow any plant in any planter box, so it literally doesn't matter that blinkroot boxes don't spawn except when concerning looks or consistency

[ashen warren]

blasphemy

[soft quest]

honestly plant and fish based alchemy should be buffed as a whole

where it stands 99% of people will either use bloodorbs or just use some alchemist mod

[grim tusk]

I sometimes use Useful npcs just for that

More fair than alch

[dim star]

^^^^

[soft quest]

plant boxes should increase their respective plant's growths and fishing should be more engaging and rewarding as a whole

[grim tusk]

Just buy the fish and herbs for potions when you cant go fishing or harvest the herbs (looking at you death weed) yet

[ashen warren]

i think that buying potions becomes ‘legitimate’ for the calamity potions that need rare or hard to get resources

[soft quest]

some calamity potions are really annoying without orbs/alch

[grim tusk]

Shadow pot is eh

Fish in crags

[ashen warren]

how does someone make a potion with a magical piece of cloth

[dim star]

blender

[keen zealot]

shadow pot also isn't even that great

[ashen warren]

also i have only seen calcium potion used for people not using accessories

[grim tusk]

Stats are stats (it also gives a good amount of stealth regen)

[grim tusk]

Indeed

I like em

No need for horseshoe balloons in pre-hm

And i can equip something else instead

[ashen warren]

frog leg

its all frog leg

[grim tusk]

Sand cloak

Old die

Silencing sheath

Luxors

Vital jelly

Etc

[ashen warren]

i dont like sand cloak, it’s annoying and bad in boss fights

[grim tusk]

Sand cloak is amazing for area dmg (specially vs worms), survivability and space control

Oh and it cheeses BoC (and creepers)

(Until it starts ramming)

[ashen warren]

to be fair most things cheese BoC

[sleek wadi]

Rework Wulfrum and Victide armors into summoner and melee sets respectively

Wulfrum and Victide both have serious competition issues with current pre-boss armors, with Wulfrum getting beaten by everything and Victide beating everything. Victide also obscures the other class's dedicated pre-boss armors of Desert Prowler, Wizard Hat+Robe, and Snow Ruffian by nature of being all-class. This also has the issue of homogenizing every class's start being rushing to desert to bully Cnidrion instead of hanging around in certain areas more than usual for certain materials.

Why rework into summoner and melee armors specifically? Ranger, mage, and rogue all already have pre-boss sets of their own in Desert Prowler, Wizard Hat+Robe, and Snow Ruffian. Changing Wulfrum and Victide into summoner and melee sets would give each class their own pre-boss armor. This would also give the opportunity to change Wulfrum's set bonus into something worthwhile instead of the nearly useless -3 damage taken under 50% hp. Victide would ideally get a more ocean-based acquiring method, either by victory shard drop or by purging victory shards from the bar recipe altogether.

Altogether these changes would:
Diversify each classes start by having them focus a specific biome for their armors
Make Wulfrum useful and keep Victide from overshadowing everything, also bringing attention to the ore and other class armors

Posting this here to know if it's a don't or not, feeling pretty large in scope

[ashen warren]

this would require significant reworking of prehardmode, at least pre hive/perif

[soft quest]

id rather instead have the 3 other class armors and then wulfrum id just idk

wulfrum is in such an odd place

[ashen warren]

what biome does wizard specialize in?

[grim tusk]

“Victide beating everything”
Gladiator and Obsidian outlaw say hi

[soft quest]

its almost like it should be entirely reworked or just removed

[sleek wadi]

I could see victide getting changed causing issues for sunken sea exploration, but wulfrum becoming summoner only really doesn't change anything as summoner hat is just flat out the best of wulfrums hats

[ashen warren]

gold armor is actually competitive of victide

[grim tusk]

Jungle/Meteor/Underground/Traveling merchant (not a biome but ye)

[soft quest]

gold/platinum are great vs victide

[grim tusk]

Ocean crest exists so like eh

[soft quest]

lets think of this when you start a world, 5 people for each class

[sleek wadi]

The ore armors in general are gonna get much better in 1.5 but no suggesting about future content.

[soft quest]

the rogue and ranger will go immeadiatley to the desert/tundra

[sleek wadi]

They're getting some additional set bonus stuff, gold is getting a crit boost relating to how much gold you have IIRC

[ashen warren]

i think the victide and wulfrum armors could both use significant work for mages

[soft quest]

the warrior will start mining

[grim tusk]

Also fairly sure Prowler’s offensive stats are better than victide

[soft quest]

and this leaves the mage and summoner chucking ameythyst and acorns at pylons repetitivley dying

[grim tusk]

Rogue can also go to marble biome and grind hoplites, or bomb obsidian in the cavern layer

[soft quest]

exactly but rogue, melee, and ranger get their good armors really quickly

[sleek wadi]

Ranger still needs to hunt the underground for cobwebs and melee under this change would have to head to the ocean assuming victide became more ocean centric

[ashen warren]

mage has it “the worst” imo, none of the classless armors mentioned have good bonuses such as mana, mana regen or mana reduction

[soft quest]

summoner should have like a tamer's set which is like 900 wood at a bench

similar to spooky

[grim tusk]

Meteor, robes and jungle exist

[soft quest]

but regular wood

[grim tusk]

Ideas from Thorium moment

[soft quest]

oh right

[sleek wadi]

Mage gets literally all of their pre-hm armors pre-boss, I'm not concerned about them

[soft quest]

then uhh

[ashen warren]

your options are preboss jungle, smashing a demon orb and waiting or going underground and trying to get a rare enemy to spawn (traveling merchant is bad)

[soft quest]

at the same time they have it really difficult getting to that first armor to boost em off

jungle is so far away and extremley deadly

its like 12 stingers and 5 vines or something crazy

[sleek wadi]

Jungle sure, hat+robe is just luck, meteor is tricky but plenty doable with smart block use and starting bombs

[grim tusk]

And so is ocean (mantis shrimp lmao)

[ashen warren]

i think mage should get a set focusing on mahogany and maybe 1 or 2 vines

also the jungle bugs or maybe frogs

[soft quest]

or maybe a corrupt/crimson set even

[grim tusk]

Other than the things we mentioned, the sugg seems fine

[soft quest]

i still find myself barley getting wulfrum armor pre boss

[sleek wadi]

I think the varying difficulty in obtaining the armors is fine, one of the big benefits of this change would be that every class gets a pretty different start

Although victide should also end up easier to get considering asking melee specifically to kill cnidrion when there are like, 4 pre-boss ranged melee options is a bit too mean IMO

[soft quest]

just facetank lul

[ashen warren]

pretty different start would be the first 30 seconds of a pt video being a death compilation trying to get victide or meteor or such

[grim tusk]

Just use wooden yoyo and wait for cnidrion to die

[soft quest]

cover cnidrion in oil

wait for him to spit

[sleek wadi]

Rogue ends up the big winner under this change, everyone else still gonna deal with the death compilation

[soft quest]

rogue or ranger

and melee still

[grim tusk]

Rogue also dies a lot, throwing bricks suck lmao

[soft quest]

ore armor is safe

but tedious

again, its mage and summoner

[sleek wadi]

Oh right rogue gets the worst starting option especially now that squirrel isn't a minor god of chaos

[grim tusk]

You need to mine to get gilded/gleaming dagger or crystaline to defend yourself if you get snow crimson/corruption
Or to kill hoplites or be in cavern layer to get obsidian (and get bombs to mine em)

As iron franciscas, lead tomahawks, nasty chollas and web balls are also very bad

[ashen warren]

its so easy to get the dagger

only holdup could be having to get merchant

[grim tusk]

In rev maybe

In death no lmao

[grim tusk]

Also this

[ashen warren]

anyways storm if you want a sugg for the back burner, mage prehardmode classless armors are really bad

[grim tusk]

Nah mage is fine, dont want to make it more busted than it is lmao

[sleek wadi]

I'd hold off on suggesting anything about the ore armors specifically as those are getting new set bonuses in 1.5

[sleek wadi]

I'll rework some of the suggestion to address some of the issues brought up in this convo and to also cut it down a bit. I think switching it to a kind of bullet point list would help.

[keen zealot]

the underground. all the rest kinda have to be on the surface to get their armours

also y'all need to remember that tim spawns become 4x as likely when you have a gem robe on without a wizard/magic hat, and that's a vanilla change, not calamity

[grim tusk]

Rogue then goes to underground for gladiator or obsidian outlaw

[fossil finch]

Still very rng and rare tbf

[grim tusk]

Cuz snow ruffian’s stats are just meh

[fossil finch]

They work though

[keen zealot]

I didn't know snow ruffian existed until after it became useless

[sleek wadi]

I'll hold off on this sugg until 1.5. I think some of its stronger reasonings are gonna hinge on some 1.5 stuff like the ore armors getting much better and stealth strikes getting rebalanced AGAIN to be more generally useful instead of just being god on like 4 weapons and useless otherwise

[keen zealot]

although that was probably because my entire surface snow was covered in corruption

literally the entire thing

the initial state of that world sucked lmao

[grim tusk]

Stealth is already pretty nice rn, and 4 weapons is a small amount (like 10)

[sleek wadi]

I don't know how rogue's stealth strike catalogue is looking overall, I just know that a vast minority of their weapons have useful stealth strikes

[keen zealot]

yeah

[grim tusk]

I could tell you but thats a something for another day and another channel

[keen zealot]

stealth strikes have been consistently worse than just using the normal attack

especially while also dodging, even with some of the best stealth generation I could get

except for maybe silent on every accessory

[sleek wadi]

I do think that if wulfrum and victide were class specific, it'd highlight the other classless armors especially the upcoming buffed ore armors. Instead of being like "I'm not sure what class I want to be yet, I'll default to wulfrum bc cheap" it'll be "Not sure what class I want yet, I'll just use the ore armor for no- oh sick new set bonus"

[grim tusk]

Same

[keen zealot]

yeah, that seems like the best move going forward

[grim tusk]

Except for the part that only summoner grinds wulfrum

[keen zealot]

kinda tired of multiclass armours meaning in multiplayer we have to mine like +110% ore for every extra person

[grim tusk]

Titanium moment

[sleek wadi]

The wulfrum grind could be made a bit more lenient considering summoner's unreliable start.

[keen zealot]

I had to mine the entire fucking jungle for 700 uelibloom and it still wasn't quite enough

[sleek wadi]

Like having cores spawn anywhere instead of outer thirds

Er pylons

[grim tusk]

Agreed

And wulfrum pylon’s range being larger

[sleek wadi]

Or give all wulfrum enemies a chance to drop a core with pylons just being guaranteed, or even purge cores altogether

[grim tusk]

As well as the pylon not having contact dmg

Idk why cores were made into a thing

[sleek turret]

Purging cores feels like back before R&D were getting Wulfrum was a lot more easier.

And more practically in my point of view.

[grim tusk]

Also has a recipe for Rover drive been suggested?

Its a pain in the ass to get

[keen zealot]

I don't think any of them have passed, but yes they have been suggested

I do remember seeing some at least

[grim tusk]

Maybe something like 30 scraps and 5 cores maybe

[sleek wadi]

Cores were made to encourage you to explore the entire surface upon game start and while they DO accomplish that, they also kinda discourage using wulfrum altogether

[grim tusk]

Indeed

Maybe if like only the chestplate needed the cores

[sleek wadi]

Like by the time I found out about cores DS was already dead

[sleek turret]

By the time I get cores is when I go to ocean and start farming Anahita.

And a lot of ocean loot because Mantis Claws.

[grim tusk]

By the time i got enough to make Wulfrum in hardcore attempt #3 (cuz fucking snow crimson making snow ruffian not possible) i died shortly after

[sleek wadi]

btw, does snow ruffian ask for pure ice blocks specifically or can it use any ice?

[grim tusk]

Any, but being in crimson/corruption early game on death mode is ass

[sleek turret]

Honestly snow ruffian feels more of an omniclass rather than a rogue specific, because the glide wings effects is incredibly good.

[grim tusk]

And snow ruffian should def be more expensive

Maybe making it require shiverthorn

[sleek wadi]

Shiverthorn, maybe some kind of underground snow material

Could ask for leather considering angry dogs are a thing

[sleek turret]

Leather perhaps?

[sleek wadi]

Like 1 or 2 leather each for each piece

Not a lot considering angry dog's spawn rate, but still more than just tossing 5 or so bombs

[sleek turret]

Some underground material would encourage people entering caves early-on for an armor, which is good.

[grim tusk]

I think shiverthorn are prob better

As you can also get leather by grinding corruption/crimson

And angry dogs are rare

[sleek turret]

Shiverthorn is quite of RNG one, I mean by that by the first chest you get you can get a Seed Bag and opening it, and also waiting

[sleek wadi]

Grinding out mobs in world evil pre-boss is still really dangerous and leather isn't exactly a common craft. Angry Dog is also how I'd imagine people even find out about leather in the first place which also helps to make the armor's existence a bit more obvious

[sleek turret]

It would be nice if Angry Dog spawnrate could be increased for making leather easier to get early and without getting to evil biomes, for that purpose.

[sleek wadi]

They toss this material they likely didn't know about before in recipe browser, see a new armor set, boom snow ruffian discovered. As for making leather easier to obtain in snow biome, just raise angry dog spawnrate and also don't ask for a lot of it

Oh, and crank that drop rate up to 100%

Its 50% currently apparently

[keen zealot]

leather can also be crafted with rotten chunks/vertebrae, so just upping one of either drop or spawn rate should be enough

[sleek wadi]

Make Snow Ruffian armor require Leather

Snow Ruffian armor is in this weird spot of being both super easy to craft and pretty obscure. This is partially due to Wulfrum existing thus giving players a different target for their first rogue set. This is also because players wouldn't think to toss in any of its materials into a recipe browser seeing as they are either trash blocks or due to not tossing in Boreal Wood in particular as opposed to any other wood. If you DO know about it you can get a really good armor relative to its super low of cost of 5 or so of your starter bag bombs.

Making Snow Ruffian require Leather would bring the set out of that weird spot. I'd imagine most players first exposure to Leather would be via Angry Dogs, and their first response to getting a new material is to throw it into a recipe browser. This would make the armor more well known and see more use, while also making it slightly more difficult to craft.

The armor would be kept snow biome focused as Angry Dog's are a much safer source of leather than evil biome at game start, so no concern of it requiring a visit to a different biome. It would also help to increase either of Angry Dog's spawnrate or drop rate to make Leather more obvious.

How does this look?

[grim tusk]

👍

[sleek turret]

Incredibly good suggestion, I like it.

[crude geode]

Shoving a herb into a armor doesn’t sit right with me, especially a early game armor that isn’t really magical and is more just ice smashed together with wood as well as a scarf

[hollow shell]

? Which suggestion are you talking about?

Oh people mentioned Shiverthorn earlier

[sleek wadi]

I personally wasn't thinking about adding shiverthorn either, more so it because it doesn't really change the state of the recipe beyond making it RNG.

[hollow shell]

Plus the fact that, iirc, no herbs in the world generate fully grown
So it'd be a time-gate on how early you can get the armor

[earnest cape]

why not just.... dye your master ninja gear?

[earnest cape]

@dapper viper

[dapper viper]

helo

oh, that doesn’t work

you have to put the dye on the slot the seraph tracers are in

then it dyes both the dash and the sprint simultaneously

and for some reason, the dye only works with seraph tracers, even if their visibility is toggled off luckily

elysian and celestial don’t dye

don’t dye the sprint/dash particles*

the boots themselves and the wings dye fine

i could boot up my pc and show you proof if you’d like

oh, and it dyes all the ninja gear upgrades

so statis’ ninja belt / void sash also get dyed

[keen zealot]

basically, this is mostly about dying the dash particles

[dapper viper]

yeah, but it also does so for the sprint

like the dust when you are max acceleration

[keen zealot]

oh yeah, that's what I meant

both particles could be described as dash particles huh

[dapper viper]

i know it’s nothing much, it just came to me as rather odd that only the seraph tracers do so, not the upgrades

my solution at the moment is to equip both the seraph tracers and the upgrade for my progression (using hero’s mod to put both in a working slot simultaneously)

then i get the upgrade and can still dye my particles

anyways, if this isn’t accepted as it’s rather useless and small then that’s fine

just thought i’d put it here

[robust lava]

You're probably just better off reporting that straight to the devs

A regular user of the mod isn't going to understand the details of the suggestion

[stoic gate]

I think you're right
but who please

[robust lava]

Ozzatron most likely

[frail mantle]

ozz probably yea

[stoic gate]

thanks a lot

done. thank ya all

[frozen hornet]

I think just removing the consumable version is easier than making it non consumable and remove the already non-consumable

[distant gyro]

the consumable version of profaned core is already removed in 1.5

@earnest raptor
(check 179) #changelogs message

[earnest raptor]

oh

I missed changelog for several months, sorry

Deleted.

[fossil finch]

Ok but the snow ruffian armor sugf doesn't really accomplish anything by itself?
First i don't see how is the armor "obscure", it's made with pretty basic shit and may get even reccomended to you when opening recipe browser, leather isn't anywhere near easy to get, so without idk buffing greatly angry dogs spawnrate it'd be easily the worst option to go for, considering the already-low stats it has

Ik the angry dug spawnrate/droprate buff is mentioned in the sugg, but if a change requires two on the first place to be good it's uh

[ashen warren]

snow ruffian is mostly used for the same reasons rogues use ‘helmet class armors’, the defense (although low) and the ability to do stealth

[fossil finch]

Because as of right now, this makes it the most rng locked out of all early armors, even wulfrum would be easier to get (specially if the recipes don't all require like 1 leather)

Ah yes "rogue armor is used for the reasons rogue armor is used: it's rogue armor"
what do you mean by that

[ashen warren]

calamity did add a leather recipe right?

[fossil finch]

No?

[ashen warren]

i thought it did

[fossil finch]

They just allowed vertebrae to craft it like rotten meat

Which is basically the same as a rotten meat recipe but for crimson worlds

Leather also costs 5 of these, and that's not that easy to get early on, specially on the quantities you would need it here

[ashen warren]

ah okay

[fossil finch]

My point with these is that adding leather to it makes it too rare

[distant gyro]

also leather in itself is obscure

[fossil finch]

Also yeah^

I still don't know how is ruffian obscure currently

[distant gyro]

to make it super stand out there needs to be the generic early game ice biome calamity item

[soft quest]

i think all the pre boss armors were fine before the addition of energy cores

[distant gyro]

but it's also super generic™️

[fossil finch]

Little reminder that recipe browser recommendeds you recipes when you get a new material

[soft quest]

i actually used to get wulfrum but now its so rng

(relative to early game)

[safe oasis]

shouldn't you ping the guy considering the sugg was like 12 hours ago

[soft quest]

ping who?

[fossil finch]

Removing cores is also kinda backwards to what ruffian sugg wants to do because of "ruffian being too easy to get" ngl

[safe oasis]

the dude who suggested ruffian change, as it is being discussed rn

[fossil finch]

It's not in the sugg ofc but it was mentioned and all so i wanted to say that

Also yeah

[fossil finch]

@sleek wadi funny

[soft quest]

id just think keep ruffian easy but also keep wulfrum easy

so you have choice

[fossil finch]

I want to add to this that if you remove cores, chances are ruffian and desert prowler stop being used at all

[soft quest]

defense or mobillity

[fossil finch]

Specially if what this sugg says about "ruffian being obscure" is anything near true

[soft quest]

ruffian is far from obscure

as rogue id never get wulfrum because ruffian is so easy

[fossil finch]

I mean ruffian's bonus is pretty basic
It's nice but i don't see people choosing it above more survival or stats overall

[soft quest]

because its x10 easier

than waiting for pylons

[fossil finch]

Well yeah and apparently this sugg wants to fix that by passing the rarity problem to ruffian?

It's not fixing anything

[soft quest]

and thats not something im a fan of

[fossil finch]

Pushing a problem to another thing doesn't solve it

[soft quest]

exactly

[grim tusk]

Ruffian is too cheap

And easy to get

[soft quest]

but i just want wulfrum to be easier to get

[grim tusk]

Compared to every other early game armor

[sleek turret]

ruffian armor is basically wood armors except a lot more better

[soft quest]

so is prowler

[sleek turret]

and rogue exclusive™

[grim tusk]

Prowler requires you to grind vultures

[soft quest]

and basic ore armor isnt hard to get

[soft quest]

it isnt that hard because youre the ranger

[grim tusk]

Ruffian is use a bomb or 2 in ice biome lul

[soft quest]

you dont have to melee them

[fossil finch]

Angry dogs aren't as common as vultures

Nowhere near as it

[sleek turret]

you start with a bow and some arrows to suffice getting to kill vultures

that is the same as angry dogs

[grim tusk]

The sugg also suggested buffing angry dog spawnrate to compensate

[sleek turret]

but now use Throwing Bricks instead

[soft quest]

ok that i guess id be fine with

[fossil finch]

I'd repeat myself but just read up ngl

[sleek turret]

or either is increasing the spawnrate of angry dogs or making the drop chance to a 100%

[fossil finch]

Makig the drop chance 100% wouldn't really do much unless idk the armor takes 3 leather in total

[soft quest]

id just like it for every class to have a dirt cheap starting armor honestly, pre boss is one of the slowest and the most boring part of the game

[grim tusk]

Yea it shouldnt use that much

[fossil finch]

What

How are you making an armor out of one fucking piece of leather per part of the armor

[grim tusk]

Wulfrum is the basic armor but its currently so grindy to get

[grim tusk]

Similarly to how wulfrum uses energy cores

[soft quest]

this is a big problem

[fossil finch]

Except energy cores make sense on that case

[soft quest]

pre boss armors gets talkes soo much in this channel

[fossil finch]

Your wacky fucky metal armor doesn't need more than one power source per piece

[soft quest]

something has to be done about it thatll make everyone happy

[grim tusk]

And ruffian has other materials in its recipe

[fossil finch]

We can't make a full chestplate out of 1 piece of leather

[soft quest]

this is terraria

[safe oasis]

well i mean you're currently making it out of snow and ice right now so it's not exactly realistic either way

[soft quest]

you fight a magical eldritch god whos cut in half

[fossil finch]

at least it had wood psy

[soft quest]

i think youre thinking about recipies too hard

[fossil finch]

Implying it's a wood armor

Leather would imply it's made out of leather and all

Anyways

[sleek turret]

you fight a fucking cosmic worm devourer of gods with a 9 glock

[soft quest]

why couldnt the player mix wood and leather elements together

[fossil finch]

Isn't farming for desert prowler just as easy as bombing ice biome anyways

[soft quest]

leather for joints especially

for wood armor

[safe oasis]

at least you have to fight enemies

[fossil finch]

It may take more than 3 seconds but it's still uh

That doesn't change anything

[sleek turret]

desert prowler hard part is getting cowweb for silk which alteast gives it some cave exploration

[soft quest]

rogue melee and ranger, again, all have easier alternatives to wulfrum

[fossil finch]

mage is just "want rng"

[soft quest]

mage has it the worst imo

the roughest pre boss game

[sleek turret]

and then you have mage, which either is jungle or "lol go to caves and get gems and funny hat"

[soft quest]

both are hard

and rng

or meteor

[grim tusk]

Or corruption/crimson then meteorite

[fossil finch]

Funny hat you aren't getting between a reasonable time frame most of the time*

[sleek turret]

and also travelling merchant

[soft quest]

also rng

[sleek turret]

which is rng stupidity

[fossil finch]

Meteor takes waiting and in 1.4 fucking yourself

(Don't rely on meteor basically)

[sleek turret]

relying on corruption/crimson early-gane without any preparation is basically suicide

just for 1 single armor and funny laser gun

[soft quest]

summoner armor made from vertabre/chunks would be cool

like very weak though

similar to prowler and ruffian

[fossil finch]

Funny summoner wulfrum overcharge concept (not happening)

[sleek turret]

there were many ideas for wulfrum

cave exploration set, overhaul it onto a summoner set

[grim tusk]

#suggestions-discussion message
I liked this idea

[sleek turret]

or even make it a fucking omniclass set

[soft quest]

move wulfrum to pre 1st mech post wof

[fossil finch]

I'd still answer to that: ok but mage

[soft quest]

jk that point in the game is so cluttered

[soft quest]

summoner and mage need their own pre boss stuff

thats all i can say really

[fossil finch]

And tbf victide being locked to ds is better than making it melee oriented

Melee has ore armors

Go away

[sleek turret]

that isn't fucking stupid rng or "just craft the helmet"

[earnest raptor]

mage what?

[fossil finch]

Bad melee

[ashen warren]

everyone knows that water based armor is useless

[fossil finch]

We literally discussed the problem with mage a few messages above that

Read

[fossil finch]

Uhhhh no???
You literally get it when you need a water based armor
:CompleteFailure:

[sleek turret]

honestly
wulfrum should be an omniclass set or just revamp it into an exploration based set

[ashen warren]

u dont really ever need water armor

[sleek turret]

and add some early-game armor for summoner that isn't just the helmet

[earnest raptor]

helmet armors are dumb decision overall

[fossil finch]

Exploration based makes sense considering what enemies drop wulfrum but you're getting armor bloat by then ngl

[earnest raptor]

made by vanilla

[earnest raptor]

laughs in Thorium

[ashen warren]

okay hear me out what if there was an added recipe for the wizard hat

[fossil finch]

The recipe has to be sensical because wizard hat has 15% damage boost

Funny tim rng is not good but just cloth won't suffice

[ashen warren]

it could be a mana crystal, some amount of silk and maybe some mana or magic damage potions

[soft quest]

summoner should get a necromancer set from rotten chunks/vertebrae no minions slots but summons an eater of souls/crimera to fight for you

mage should have a set that gives like +15 mana and 6% damage or something and made out of mud and glowing/regular mushrooms

[fossil finch]

Glowing mushrooms are about as rare as any decent 10 gems tbh so I'd rule those out directly

[earnest raptor]

why new armors, when older armors are problematic already

[soft quest]

excusemewut

[ashen warren]

finding a glowing mushroom biome is very easy

[soft quest]

i always find mushroom biomes fast

[fossil finch]

That's a you

[ashen warren]

if anything marble and granite biomes are annoying

[fossil finch]

There's times you can go a prehardmode without any

Marble and granite biomes are a lot more common and a lot bigger bruhve

[soft quest]

how about armor made of herbs and wood?

[fossil finch]

1.4 will kinda just kill the glowing mush issue thanks to new gen byeah

[ashen warren]

i always thought of one that could use some different critters for a summoning armor

[fossil finch]

Again you're getting carried lmao

[grim tusk]

Early game herb rng

[fossil finch]

We don't really need new armors

[soft quest]

sad

[ashen warren]

yall are inventing issues now

[earnest raptor]

the what

[grim tusk]

that would require getting merchant

[ashen warren]

getting a merchant takes maybe 5 minutes

[safe oasis]

planetoids tbh

[grim tusk]

Before leather was agreed on for the snow ruffian sugg, i proposed shivertorn. And well shiverthorn take long to grow (or herb bag rng)

[earnest raptor]

https://terraria.fandom.com/wiki/Ebonwood_armor
https://terraria.fandom.com/wiki/Shadewood_armor

there is those pieces of shit

[fossil finch]

Imo, summoner wulfrum, post ds victide (from ds, sunken sea is different and all) and idk making gems somehow less rng specially magic hat? That's it

[earnest raptor]

adapt them

[fossil finch]

No need for 384829848385838484884 armors

[grim tusk]

Cnidrion

[safe oasis]

(un-embed them)

[grim tusk]

Victide is pre-boss

[fossil finch]

Yada yada there's a don't about this holy fuck

Storm what are you reading

That's not the state of the armors currently

Tf

[grim tusk]

It is

[soft quest]

ok so what could be an easy mage armor not rng based?

clouds?

[grim tusk]

Just kill cnidrion and you get materials for victide

[fossil finch]

Storm read again
What i said is not the state of the armors currently

[ashen warren]

maybe adapt all of the wood armors

[fossil finch]

Literally it's just what i think should be

[safe oasis]

herbs are literally your best bet

something easy like shiverthorn or daybloom or whatever, maybe even sunflower

[soft quest]

oooh sunflowers

[fossil finch]

Ffs man

[safe oasis]

idk making gems somehow less rng specially magic hat
(how would you do this though)

[fossil finch]

Good point

Magic Hat recipe can work if a sensical enough recipe is made i think
(Or maybe some way to summon tim somehow consistently ngl)

[ashen warren]

regular- no class
palm wood- water or tank based
acid wood- rogue
evil wood- melee
boreal- rogue/movement
jungle wood- summoner

[fossil finch]

Did you know calamity doesn't need to be wood armor bonuses mod

[sleek wadi]

Gems already get like, 3 new acquisition methods in calamity making it kinda rough to add more without outright giving them to the player

[fossil finch]

[earnest raptor]

so why ore armors are buffed then?

[fossil finch]

Yeah the problem is mainly magic hat tbh

Because ore armors=/=wood armors

[grim tusk]

Acid wood exists already and its post-EoC. And its very fucking good (lasts til you get statigel lmao)

[ashen warren]

i am aware

thats why i put rogue

[distant gyro]

wood armor buff is no

[earnest raptor]

there is no need for two sulfuric sea armors

[grim tusk]

And both rogue

[ashen warren]

i was refering to the existing one

why would i want a second one

[distant gyro]

you take 20 seconds to get it

[sleek wadi]

Tim himself gets a higher spawnrate when you're wearing a robe. If mage really needs the extra boost to getting their armor, could just alter the gem robes tooltip to saying that tim spawns more often while wearing it

[fossil finch]

Tim still is not that common though

[earnest raptor]

not the purity wood

there is other wood

[fossil finch]

Making mage's first decent complete set still be locked behind unneeded rng unlike every other class

[earnest raptor]

like snow wood, evil wood, beach wood, jungle wood

[grim tusk]

Boreal has been claimed by rogue already

[fossil finch]

By the time you may get a tim most people are probably getting jungle already thanks to whatever good post boss weapon

[ashen warren]

i am aware of this as well

[earnest raptor]

ok, no snow wood

evil wood is still there

[fossil finch]

People overestimate tim's thing ngl

[ashen warren]

you could have the wizard hat be crafted at demon alter with some amount of potions, silk and stars

[fossil finch]

Yeah it appears half as often but still nowhere near consistently enough to lock your only headpiece behind it

[ashen warren]

still some element of difficulty/exploitation, and requires at least some effort or fishing to obtain

[fossil finch]

Tbf basically: on the idyllic future summoner farms wulfrum, rogue angry dogs, ranger vultures, and melee cnidrions (i still prefer post ds victide to this) mage is the only class to not get their first early set consistently.

[ashen warren]

angry dogs are 50x harder to get than the feathers

[grim tusk]

A glowing mushroom set for mage might work

[ashen warren]

leave snow ruffian armor alone

[fossil finch]

This future relies on angry dog spawn buff

[sleek wadi]

Not if the leather required is like, 1 per set and dog spawnrate or droprate is increased

[grim tusk]

.

[sleek wadi]

Er not per set, per piece

[ashen warren]

sounds unnecessary

[grim tusk]

Also maybe an alternative to cnidrions, like dried seekers

[sleek wadi]

The goal of my sugg was to make snow ruffian stand out a bit more and also not have it be practically free

[grim tusk]

Yea snow ruffian needs to not be free as fuck

[earnest raptor]

why you would gate snow rufflan behind leather?

[ashen warren]

there are other things in the snow biome

[grim tusk]

Shiverthorn is no

Takes too long to grow

[ashen warren]

it could take like some iron or copper to craft

[grim tusk]

Slush is also very easy to get but you need to go underground

[ashen warren]

not everything needs to be a grind

[eternal escarp]

Ruffian uses Leather likely to the same reason Prowler uses Desert Feathers

aesthetical recipe

[grim tusk]

Ye

[sleek wadi]

Leather thematically fits better as a material and asks for some combat like the other pre-boss armors calamity adds. Also keeps it to the snow biome as sure you COULD craft leather but >surviving pre-boss world evil combat start of game

[ashen warren]

silk also exists

[grim tusk]

Silk doesnt fit snow ruffian

[ashen warren]

how so

[grim tusk]

Do you think silk clothing would be prominent in a cold place?

Leather makes sense

And besides

Rogue has another armor that uses silk already

(Obsidian outlaw)

And ranger’s desert prowler also uses it

[distant vault]

leather would also suck in the cold but yeah

[grim tusk]

Its best to have diversity

[safe oasis]

notice that there is leather as well

[ashen warren]

i know

but its majority silk

your recc would make it the same recipe

or at least very very similar

[sleek wadi]

One requires silk, the other snow biome trash blocks. Different enough and also still solves the "Snow ruffian is literally free" component

[ashen warren]

my point is that leather is not a good material

[soft quest]

Reworks Surrounding Pre-Boss armors

How it stands currently:
The rogue and the ranger have an easy time boosting off their playthroughs with easy armors, located in biomes close to the spawn forest, the tundra and the desert. The warrior is in a similar boat, mining underground sheltered in his own tunnels he can safely mine ore pockets, while this can be tedious sometimes the rewards the warrior gets from it are high defense sets. However the summoner and mage are forced into acquiring wulfrum armor, alternatively the mage suffers through the jungle for a very long time to get an armor set that can be used till the slime god, OR he can pray to the rng gods and get a traveling merchant for a magic hat/pray that tim spawns OR if.. very patient, he can do a huge stone-skip to meteorite before any bosses

And then theres wulfrum.. which, if you are a rogue/warrior/ranger, there is little reason to get this. On the flip side this armor set may be vital to mage and is a 100% neccesity for summoner. While the set isn't bad for any class really, providing a nice defensive bonus under 1/2 HP, the problem lies in RNG, cores are just too infrequent to make it worth it by the time you get gold/ruffian/prowler. This was attempted to be fixed when pylons got the abillity to spawn in the inner thirds of the world but it is still very much an issue

Also there's victide, which you could get but you will 75% of the time just kill scourge instead of cnidron farming, you could get it pre-boss technically but honestly to me that's strange (not my point)

Possible Suggestions:

• Make wulfrum easier to obtain
• Make easy alternative armor for mage and summoner (corruption based/herbal/star/critter based armors)?
• lock some armors behind progression
• Rework wulfrum
• something about gems and tim RNG

no nitro moment

do i gotta change something?

[safe oasis]

first sentence can be removed entirely

[soft quest]

eh, idk if anyone would get the message

but ok

[ashen warren]

i think its fine

[soft quest]

other peoples thoughts on the suggestion?

[minor ore]

Don’t wanna be that guy who mentions 1.4 even though I am that right now, but considering the amount of pre-hm and pre-boss changes it already makes, that calamity is definitely going to have to go over probably in the next major update, is it really worth making many changes to it rn? unless they do it with in 1.4 in mind and don’t want to have to go back and undo a change that was just made. I know mentioning vanilla 1.4 is kind of dumb but that’s just how I see it. Especially changes to certain armors considering what happens to summoner.

[soft quest]

we'll cross that bridge when we update

or rather

thats a bridge they'll cross

[soft quest]

yeah but

[ashen warren]

the suggestion is to rework or add maybe 2 armor sets at its most basic solution

thats not a grand scale reworking

[minor ore]

well my point is you’re right about it being a bridge they may cross so perhaps they will deal with pre boss and pre hm changes when it gets to that specific update, and they have to.

[sleek wadi]

1.4 effects pre-boss mostly by punting obsidian, meteor, and molten to post-EoW/BoC proper and I think adding a set for summoner. Otherwise 1.4 doesn't matter to this discussion

[fossil finch]

Reworking a total of 4-5 armors is grand scale lo

[earnest raptor]

it still affect early game as whole

[fossil finch]

Mainly because of balancing

[soft quest]

do you want me to make like 30 small suggestions then

[safe oasis]

that doesn't tie in with the "extreme amount of time and effort" though, medium-scale rework that happens to have a grand-scale effect

[ashen warren]

okay i’m gonna try and write the most simple solution i possibly can

[safe oasis]

well not grand scale but like

[grim tusk]

And turning obsidian into summoner

[safe oasis]

slightly-bigger-scale

[earnest raptor]

yes, because some people might not like armors moved between different classes

[safe oasis]

that's on them to vote for then

[sleek wadi]

I felt my earlier sugg of reworking just wulfrum and victide was too large, and that one also needed a bunch of other smaller changes to accomplish its goal

[safe oasis]

2 armor sets isn't really grand-scale lol

[soft quest]

hmmm any mods on that i can ping?

[safe oasis]

a grand scale rework would be like "rework the entirety of post moonlord to make it not a boss rush"

[safe oasis]

rover is the sugg guy, if needed

[sleek wadi]

Things like: Purging victory shards from victide bar to make the armor properly ocean, relied on my earlier mantis shrimp suggestion making it in, doing something about pylons seeing as outer thirds would tend to put summoner in either world evil or jungle

[soft quest]

hey @hollow shell sorry to bother you but is this suggestion to drastic of a suggestion to post?

[sleek wadi]

Rogue also ends up with a free pass for their armor because snow ruffian only needs like 5 bombs to get all of its mats and you start with 25

[hollow shell]

Wasn't something very similar to this suggested a week or two ago?
Not that this couldn't be suggested even if so, but

[soft quest]

there have been multiple stuff regarding the topic of ruffian, wulfrum etc

but iirc i dont think a general suggestion has been said

[hollow shell]

Damn it was a month ago

[soft quest]

oh shoot

man i shouldve checked

lol

so uhhh

the ongoing conversation for the bast 3 hours is kinda irrelavent

[ashen warren]

:(

[soft quest]

[ashen warren]

[soft quest]

i just wonder if theyll run with it though

i hope they do

cause

wulfum bad

[earnest raptor]

what about this?

wulfrum loses stat boosts, but gets gimmicks bonuses like gliding, increased defense after a while or thorns

[soft quest]

really just make wulfrum worth it pre boss

or easier

but both of those i think have been suggested

[ashen warren]

maybe there could be a way to make wulfrum scrap

[earnest raptor]

like it really has identity crisis after rework, and not like stats given by it are largely relevant

[sleek wadi]

Just make wulfrum a dedicated summoner set, it already basically is considering its lower defense and summoner hat being the most useful on EVERY class

[ashen warren]

maybe involving the sea of acid and maybe copper or such

[ashen warren]

just let summoner have equal defense

there is no reason the classes have different defense other than to add difficulty and make you dodge

[sleek wadi]

And if it ends up becoming summoner only, it can get an actual set bonus instead of -3 damage taken when under 50%. Unless you're commiting suicide by thorn bush, that low of a boost is not gonna impact the amount of hits you can take

[ashen warren]

the helmets are all made out of the same damn thing in equal quantity

how does a helmet even have 0 defense

[sleek wadi]

idk, how do wood leggins have 0 defense

[ashen warren]

its wood to be fair

how about

[earnest raptor]

does it even make a difference?

[sleek wadi]

I also meant it having lower defense in comparison to the ore armors, sorry for not making it clear

[earnest raptor]

like, genuinely

+-20 damage at endgame when you are hit for 150?

[sleek wadi]

The defense difference in helmets starts making a difference at around post-mechs I want to say, far beyond the scope of what we care about right now being pre-boss

Post-mechs HM has just the right amount of damage relative to defense that the difference in helmets influence the amount of hits you can take, while in post-ML beyond this mostly impacts how long it takes to regen off a stray hit

[ashen warren]

make the helmets for each class on classless headpiece based armor sets equal in defense

this is probably going to sound like a very large suggestion, but in my opinion it dosent make a huge impact on gameplay. Melee is usually the strongest class dps wise, and has a significant amount of weapons and accessories partially thanks to its involvement in vanilla terraria. it makes 0 sense whatsoever to give them the most defense balance wise.

thematically, the helmets are always made in the same station with the same materials and the same amount of resources. it makes not much sense to have them all be different defense amounts based off of minor design elements.

melee, usually post slime god, becomes almost entirely projectile dependent, giving melee little difference from ranger or mage aside from the latter classes consuming much more resources.

the only reason i’ve heard for classes to be different defense values is because it encourages dodging, and that makes little sense to me.

[distant vault]

wait what makes melee the strongest dps class

[grim tusk]

True meme moment

[soft quest]

mage should usually always be the highest

[distant vault]

in that case defense does make sense

[grim tusk]

Outside of true meme, mage wins 90% of the time

[soft quest]

idk if thats true but i think thats how it should be

[fallow hedge]

mmmm I don't think I like this

[soft quest]

at the cost of weapon down time and resource managment

[fallow hedge]

there's a reason why some classes have a lower defense than others

[ashen warren]

melee is the only class to not have a special resource

[distant vault]

still has slower kill times than others most of the time

[sleek wadi]

Slower kill times if you're at range and only gets their funny high DPS if they're kissing the boss which would further justify them having high defense to deal with contact damage

[distant vault]

true true

[sleek wadi]

...Giving melee helms contact damage resistance might actually be a neat idea thinking about it

[ashen warren]

my point is that mage has to worry about mana and mana sickness and the like, and at the same time other elements of gameplay

if a mage wants to. noy worry about mana they have yo expend more resources like potions or accessories slots

[sleek wadi]

Melee doesn't have to worry about some resource and in return has to fight longer because of it

[grim tusk]

And might work once 1.5 comes in

[ashen warren]

i’m totally fine to have melee get damage reduction

that could be their resource, like if they get hit it has to build back up again

[distant vault]

so like solar dash

[ashen warren]

or beetle

they all get equal defense, but mage for example gets mana and melee gets damage reduction

[soft quest]

every class should have a niche and trade-off imo, this isnt how it is but:

melee should use his high defense to outlive his enemy, should be mid-low dps

the ranger excels in single target damage but that is also his weakness, class is rewarded for good aim (fuck you chloro bulltes)

The rogue uses his anti aggro to make the most powerful single stikes of any class, downside is that your spam is usually weaker

the mage has extreme damage, at the cost of downtime and resource managment (fuck you mana flower)

the summoner is stripped of personal arms and defensive capabilities, the good thing is that you can focus on the boss to not take hits

[sleek wadi]

Rogue is gonna be more bursty in 1.5 as stealth strikes are getting rebalanced AGAIN to both be more useful and to beat out spam if you're fine with the risk of outright missing

Ranger has to deal with collecting ammo, giving them a longer grind than the other classes over a playthrough

[soft quest]

and then theres "magelee", possibly the subclass i hate the most, the most defense class in the game should NOT have that far ranged capabilities at the cost of no recources and still have high dps

i hate zenith, terrablade, and influx because of it

[soft quest]

yes this is also a good tradeoff for reliable damage i think but the musket pouch undermines this

[sleek wadi]

Melee also operates as you described, or at least the results are the same. Instead of "outlasting" bosses via just negating all their damage, true melee kills them faster than the boss can kill them in like 5 seconds

Musket pouch just means you won't end up completely defenseless, musket balls are by no means a replacement for any other bullet

[tiny valve]

Musket Pouch gives you drastically lower DPS than any other bullets(besides with a few guns)

[sleek wadi]

Magelee also suffers lower kill times outside of a couple of mistakes like Stream Gouge