suggestions-discussion

[gray nebula]

I have no idea why the "dying to unfair seeming stuff" point matters at all

How does this specifically protect people against just tiny slip-ups and not just running into the boss headon or downright failing to dodge

[tardy smelt]

Grax moment

[mild kelp]

[novel belfry]

NO.

[weak field]

[wooden wedge]

@tribal remnant no

[weak field]

No reasons and it's just no

[novel belfry]

[weak field]

In short, we had one before, it was a shithole to moderate

[tribal remnant]

Fair enough

[wooden wedge]

isn't it in the don'ts doc to sugg a meme channel

[frail mantle]

yes

[novel belfry]

maybe if the calamity mod discord happened to be a lot smaller and not that rowdy, but unfortunately that's very not the case.

[wooden wedge]

if you want memes go to reddit

[novel belfry]

oh yeah that place

[solid folio]

HotE works as vanity in the next calval update

[grim tusk]

update your mod

[hollow idol]

current version actually

[safe oasis]

“i forgot it existed” isn’t very good reasoning as to why exo weapons need yet another crafting material on top of their already bloated nature

and i don’t see how requiring it for celestus would cause more people to use it, just have to go out of their way to get it pre scal, 17 tiers or something above where it’s supposed to he used

[round wraith]

so that’s definitely a no.
how about giving it an upgrade?

[safe oasis]

for what reason?

[round wraith]

because other biome weapon have at least one upgraded version. so why not?

[ashen warren]

I feel like most things that dont see use, that are then added to other crafting trees in order to see use, always sit in storage for 50 hours of gameplay- not a 1 to 1 comparison, but how many people have you seen ever legitimately use the blade of grass as a weapon?

[round wraith]

do I need to say it again? I clearly agree with @safe oasis for not adding it into the crafting tree. do I need to edit the suggestion too?

[safe oasis]

well yes, the point of giving feedback is for you to edit your suggestion to improve it

[round wraith]

alright. got it

[safe oasis]

also didn’t see this earlier sorry

i see the consistency argument here but phrasing it as “why not” wouldn’t work at all

a lot of things could be added for absolutely no reason because “why not,” i’d suggest rewording it to compare how every other biome chest weapon gets an upgrade except for the stardisk

[round wraith]

thank you for that. my english vocab isn’t my best forte after all

[hollow shell]

(You seem to be doing good)

Yeah it's true that Heavenfall Stardisk is the only biome chest wep with no upgrade

[fair radish]

I feel like adding an upgrade for the ONLY biome weapon without an upgrade would make sense, because Heavenfall Stardisk is a pretty cool weapon and it would be nice to have upgrades for it, as well as just... yeah, it would just make sense to

[short walrus]

might want to change the title aswell

[fair radish]

Yeah

Wait why doesn’t it have an upgrade

Literally every biome weapon has an upgrade

I guess they forgot to make one for Stardisk

[tardy smelt]

wait does rainbow gun?

[muted osprey]

yeah

that one bow

[dapper coral]

cosmic rainbow iirc

which is a magic weapon despite being a bow

[tardy smelt]

yeah.

[distant gyro]

indeed

empyrean knives, scourge of the cosmos, barracuda gun, endo hydra staff, cosmic rainbow

[crude geode]

@round wraith I can agree with Heavenfallen Stardisk getting an upgrade. What I can’t get behind is slapping it into Celestus’ crafting tree, as all biome weapons upgrade into themselves at least once, not into other weapons. Making it upgrade into another random boomerang weapon wouldn’t make a lot of sense.

If this is only a result of the title, then change that to reflect the rest of the suggestion

[fair tusk]

add Blessing of the Moon as the last update for the planetoids

[frozen hornet]

Suggesting to add unused themes is not allowed

If the devs want to they would have,and since they didn't it most likely means they don't want to

[still zodiac]

wrong channel, #suggestions-posting is one floor above

[gray nebula]

no

[round wraith]

my bad for not noticing that while editing the suggestion. we already go through this and I already agree for not inserting it. I already edited the reason but I forgot to edit the main suggestion. that’s all

sorry to everyone who’s confused with the title and the reason. My fault for not checking the title when editing the suggestion.

[shadow knoll]

Ye i too agree with a stardisk upgrade, it's a fun weapon and considering it's supposed to be a rogue biome variant it should def get an upgrade like the other weapons.

[grim tusk]

@candid chasm they know, it will get addressed in future updates

[sleek turret]

uh

why do we need more grind

[grim tusk]

Post-DoG will also have more grind next patch

[candid chasm]

You'll understand what I mean if you read my entire suggestion

[candid chasm]

I really hope this is the case, but I would like more throughout the entire stage and not just post-dog

[grim tusk]

Post-polter has abyss and acid rain which are a lot

[eternal escarp]

you are basically saying post Ml is a boss rush?

if so

its known

and will be addressed at some point

[candid chasm]

Alright, well if this is the case, then that's good.
I am new to calamity and just finished my first playthrough and loved it, so I'd just love to see more

[eternal escarp]

also, sugg seems pretty large scale, planned or not

[candid chasm]

yeah, I addressed that, and don't think it'll be realized anytime soon

but I at least wanted to express an opinion

[eternal escarp]

i meant like

this Don't in the Donts folder

[candid chasm]

I read the doc and didn't see that

so thank you

I guess I have to delete that message now

what page is that?

I thought I saw all of the donts

[eternal escarp]

just ctrl f and search a key word there

[candid chasm]

I guess I just skipped it

alright

[solid folio]

Ah I just saw your post on reddit yesterday I forgot to check the date

[crude geode]

It can also be noted that with the changes to solar eclipse next update, scourge of the cosmos and empyrean knives will also be post dog so it makes barracuda and cosmic rainbow even more of outliers

[cobalt pewter]

I feel like Barracuda Gun would be extremely underwhelming design wise if it's moved post DoG, a complete redesign needs to happen that way

But I'd agree yes

[frozen hornet]

Devourer gun when

[distant gyro]

both of them would be terrible if they were to place at anywhere postml

maybe not as much for barracuda but imagine using cosmic rainbow against yharon

you will literally explode

[frozen hornet]

Ah yes no hit exclusive weapons

[gray nebula]

[eternal escarp]

this sugg has basically no reason tbh

[distant gyro]

nohitter elite cheese

[eternal escarp]

"itd be cool" isnt a reason so, lol

[short walrus]

"bit of a risky suggestion" no shit lmao

[eternal escarp]

yeah theres basically no point in doing this

you can cheese nohits so easily, and theres no reason as to why there should be items locked behing nohits anyways

[hollow shell]

@alpine trench You need to have a more elaborate reason, explaining why it would be a good idea to implement your suggestion

(though it'll likely be an unpopular suggestion regardless.)

(If it's any consolation, there are going to be challenge-exclusive items in Calamity 1.5, although not for no-hitting)

[earnest raptor]

Darn it, only one recent suggestion is 200+ stats

[wooden wedge]

probably because the mod hasn't been updated in a while

[fossil finch]

Or because most suggs suck anyways

The lurkers that vote decided so

[earnest raptor]

Any ideas how I could improve in that matter?

[hollow shell]

@harsh briar Probably better for #bugs-read-pins, and provide as much details about your playthrough as you can so the source of the lag can be found more easily

[harsh briar]

Yea but the problem is when I do that yall will just tell me to get better wifi

Its not just a me problem

[wooden wedge]

are you in the dungeon

[harsh briar]

Yes

[wooden wedge]

do you have alchNPC

[harsh briar]

Oh is that the reason?

Lmao

[wooden wedge]

it's not even a calamity issue lol

[harsh briar]

oh

Ill test without alch

[wooden wedge]

but it's listed in the calamity bugs doc

because the cause is the rare creature arrow

[harsh briar]

What

[wooden wedge]

next time you have an issue like this go to #bugs-read-pins

[harsh briar]

Alr

[wooden wedge]

also this will (almost) never happen

[harsh briar]

Well ig the last time it happened was almost never

lol

They said it was probably my wifi

Ages ago

wait no nvm im dumb

They said ethernet might fix it

My memory is on point

[hollow shell]

tbf that is indirectly saying you have shitty wifi

[harsh briar]

I mean

I do kinda

But ill try without alch npc

Is there some way to fix the lag?

[hollow shell]

The rare creature arrow is also in alch's config menu, so you can toggle it mid-game and see if it helps

[harsh briar]

ooooh

oke tysm for the help man

ill see

[harsh briar]

wait

is it in the alch npc lite menu?

wait nvm found it

[wooden wedge]

idk I just searched in the bugs channel and none of the reponses to any of your two questions had to do with wifi

the only thing semi related to lag would be terraria water being just generally shitty

[small tusk]

Hey if I had a server suggestion not a game one where would I put that?

[sleek turret]

On #suggestions-posting.

[small tusk]

oh ok just checking if thats where itd go

[short walrus]

Unless it's a meme channel sugg

[hollow shell]

Yeah server suggestions are fine

[small tusk]

no lol, dont worry

[hollow shell]

(as long as, yeah. Not a meme sugg or emote sugg)

[grim tusk]

(or top of #suggestions-posting on whats allowed and not)

[small tusk]

ight there

[hollow shell]

Uh well

We banned "add X weapon that does Y thing made of Z materials" suggestions a while ago
They had a very low implementation rate by the devs

[crude geode]

plus patreon is what that's for

also bigger ideas are banned for a reason

[small tusk]

yeah ig, just an idea I came up with

[hollow shell]

. _.

[small tusk]

i can take it down if youd like

[crude geode]

On the topic of suggestion rules, could we possibly see a slight relaxation on the future content don't?

[hollow shell]

mm, I'm not sure it'd be able to get in as-is yeah

If there's gonna be a suggestion to revive Specific Item Suggestions, it'd probably come from someone who was around for that era and has a good deal of experience and a gooder deal of reasoning behind why we should go back on our decision

It's possible that SISs could return in the future, you'd just have to be really convincing

[small tusk]

i can edit the sugg for more detail and reasoning if thatd help my case

[hollow shell]

If you can think of enough to flesh it out, you can try

[small tusk]

ight ill give it my best shot lol

[crude geode]

Specific Item Suggestions would result in a flood of posting and likely even more of a backlog of community weapons than we already have with patreon dono weapons

I personally wouldn't mind if suggestions were able to use some changes from the Draedon Update in suggestions, as long as it isn't the basis/major part of the sugg. Just a bit more reasoning overall.

[ashen warren]

I think specific items are fine if they're something that prevents a boss from being spawned or something similar to that

just an opinion though

[hollow shell]

Well that's not the same kind of specific item we're thinking of

[ashen warren]

then the term is too broad?

[crude geode]

that's a concept for an item

[ashen warren]

like

[crude geode]

it's laid out in the don't doc pretty explicitly

[ashen warren]

oh, we're talking about specific specific

[hollow shell]

We're talking about "Amp Laser - 50 ranged damage, 10 usetime, 4 knockback. Crafted with 20 dubious plating and 20 mysterious circuitry. Fires a concentrated laser beam that gets more powerful the longer it is held at a rate of 5 damage per second"
That kind of suggestion is banned

yeah

[crude geode]

As laid out by the don't, specifics are generally frowned upon in general

[small tusk]

ight well I did what I could to improve my arguement

[hollow shell]

I guess I'm kinda confused how this new channel would interact with #suggestions-posting

Is this new channel going to be a 2nd sugg-voting, or a 2nd sugg-posting, or a direct post channel without bot usage?

[small tusk]

2nd posting catered for more precise elaborate item suggestions

that way the main one for small tweaks or progression fixes is less cluttered but there is still a space for these specific suggestions to be posted

[hollow shell]

That
implies that it's a 2nd voting

Anything posted in sugg-posting is temporary, it's the filter channel for sugg-voting

You may notice there are only 4 messages in #suggestions-posting atm
That's cuz every message that isn't the pin gets removed after 24 hours, either by being moved to voting or deleted

[small tusk]

yeah thats most likely how it would work, having all the posts in the new posting channel removed after a time and having the ones that are liked moved into #suggestions-voting

[hollow shell]

That's how #suggestions-posting currently works.

I guess what I'm getting at is, why is there a need for a 2nd posting channel if it's a filter channel anyway?

[small tusk]

because even though it is a filter channel those ideas are usually more implementable and tame than the item suggestions, so It'd be beneficial to make those suggestions more likely to reach #suggestions-voting because otherwise you won't even be able to see those smaller tweaks and stuff just due to the sheer flood that item suggs would bring

[hollow shell]

Alright, so the deal with the second channel is that it would have more strict judgement, a higher criteria needed for them to pass to voting?

[small tusk]

yeah

that will keep both #suggestions-posting and #suggestions-voting from being flooded while still allowing item suggs

[hollow shell]

Alright.

Title line could be more descriptive to this precise purpose
i.e. "Add a second #suggestions-posting channel, which allows specific item suggestions but is more strict"
(imo)

[small tusk]

ight lemme fix that

ight revised a little bit there

[hollow shell]

Aight, this is more clear. Thank you

[small tusk]

np, and thank you for helping me clarify the idea more

[cobalt pewter]

Let's get real for a second: the chance of cal devs adding item suggestions are virtually zero now

Seems like pointless to add a channel just for detailed stuff like that

[hollow shell]

I've got some hope. SISs were banned quite a while ago, before we had Iban and Dom on the team iirc
We even have a dedicated dev Trello for suggestions (although it's unused atm cuz of Drae update priority)

[cobalt pewter]

Also the extra control on the channel scarily sounds like the channel that was originally used for memes and ended up being a shithole

[hollow shell]

#offtopic?

[cobalt pewter]

Ye

[hollow shell]

That's a weird comparison

[cobalt pewter]

Perhaps

[whole sedge]

To me this also kind of seems like moderation hell and I kind of don't entirely see like what standards even could be held up or what standards these suggestions would have to meet but I'm feeling like I need to read this over again

[cobalt pewter]

Though the point of the comparison, as ted said, is moderation hell yes

Just let SIS die

[whole sedge]

I don't really see why this needs to be a new channel per say when it could just be changing SIS requirements to uphold a higher standard

[cobalt pewter]

SIS requirement is as strict as it could be atm

[hollow shell]

I did think about that as a possibility yeah

[cobalt pewter]

Aka them not existing at all

[small tusk]

or maybe to replace the mod hell it would lead to, make it a voting channel? that way the community decides whether the post is good enough to graduate from the whole flood that would be a SIS channel into the main #suggestions-voting that devs would see

[whole sedge]

So just... #suggestions-voting ?

That's like the entire purpose of suggestion voting really

[hollow shell]

Nah, like sugg-voting-jr

If you reach a certain voting threshold, it gets reposted in #suggestions-voting proper

[small tusk]

pretty much, like a filter sugg voting

[hollow shell]

Multiple layers of judgement

[cobalt pewter]

This becomes unnecessarily complicated lmao

Just don't do SIS

Easy

[whole sedge]

Yeah I don't see how another suggestion voting filter would really help as that'd mean we have like what... 3?
Plus even from my own modding experiences I work a lot better with just a general idea like "Add x item to fill x role at x progression point" rather than "Implement this exactly weapon to fill this role"

[small tusk]

which is why the main #suggestions-posting channel would be left untouched since those ideas are generally more usable

i just think a lot of people other than @cobalt pewter obviously lmao would appreciate a place to share those ideas and, possibly if they seem usable reach the devs

[whole sedge]

This still kinda seems overly complicated and moderation heavy for just allowing specific item suggestions that likely won't even be able to make it past 3 layers of uber specific filtering from what I see, having people just make what I'll just refer to as "general purpose" suggestions feels like it'd be a lot better

Also I can say, if you want to express creativity via modding or want your ideas in a video game, it's likely better and more fulfilling as a person to make the mod/spirtes/mechanics/whatever yourself than have a bigger mod or bigger dev team do it for you

[cobalt pewter]

As ted said, he covered all the important things

[small tusk]

I most definetely agree but also not everyone knows how or has any want to do so, and some ideas really are catered to fit calamity, so itd be pointless to add them to your own content instead

[whole sedge]

I mean there's nothing stopping you from creating a calamity "add-on" really, and I can say if you don't want to take your idea to light via a mod or don't want to put any time or effort into it said idea likely doesn't mean much to you

[small tusk]

that is reasonable

I just think that it would be appreciated by community members

[hot zephyr]

I don't have anything to add in particular other than the existence of SIS caused a lot of low effort suggestions to be made, and that was during a time when this server had a lot smaller user count. I think that even making new layers of sorting, channels, etc still won't stop the flood. I had thought of the idea of SIS rules being lessened if there was effort, but effort is hard to quantify and varies person to person

For every Great Sand Shark, there'd be a thousand self inserts, etc

[small tusk]

yeah I'm honestly just trying to do what I can to lessen the flood as much as possible while still allowing those good ideas to get through

[hot zephyr]

There's also a pretty big issue with allowing community content in, as creative differences could cause issues in the future, if a suggester wanted their suggestion changed once implemented, etc or wanted it removed.

[whole sedge]

Frankly, even in my own discords and modding communities, lessening the flood is next to impossible without just not allowing it at all unless you've somehow manage to hit the gold mine of really good community that actually helps a lot with giving good development ideas.
And yeah what Ian said also

[hot zephyr]

In my eyes, SIS are a relic of a bygone era from when the mod and community was much smaller, and simpler. They just don't seem feasible nowadays imho

Especially when the Patreon item backlog is a mile long.

[grim tusk]

Why another channel for SIS specifically

It was good that those were banned long ago

Otherwise #suggestions-posting would be 99% SIS

[dry latch]

just talk to fab in vc and hope he agrees it's a good idea

[grim tusk]

[vocal grotto]

Honestly
Even if SIS' did become a thing again I'm almost certain they'd almost all end up in limbo and not actually get implemented.
Particularly because they have the co-requirement of needing sprites

[hot zephyr]

if you're pestering people trying to get something implemented I don't think you'll achieve your intended results

[dry latch]

that was part of the joke yes

tho it did indeed work a few times. tho not for items iirc

but anyway yeah, sis are bad. do we even have a list for all sis items that got implemented?

[hot zephyr]

plantation staff
GSS

a few things

[hollow shell]

iirc there were 6 total?

(if you lump all the GSS stuff onto one)

[vocal grotto]

Weren't there a couple of ancient ones from Mrrp that eventually became things?

[hollow shell]

Those don't count

They were posted by a dev

[whole sedge]

6ish SIS suggestions being implemented out of like thousands isn't that good of a ratio either

[dry latch]

yeah it's just not worth it math wise

plus it'd likely devolve into a meme channel

[grim tusk]

And they will overshadow actual decent suggestions

[dry latch]

where people post "add [meme] as an item"

I can already see all the amogus

[hot zephyr]

(tbf, that's why the suggester is suggesting another channel)

[grim tusk]

If SIS come back it will be 100% worse than emote suggs

[hot zephyr]

and I don't think "it'll become a meme channel" is true, 'cause I know this channel won't let that happen

[grim tusk]

Do you expect the average CMT brainlet to read which channel is for what. Dont believe me, just check how many people in #calamity-update-talk ask for whats X , when its on pins (or mentioned around 10-30 messages ago)

[hot zephyr]

I unironically think that emote suggestions should be brought back

[grim tusk]

On CD

Allowing the average person is NO

[hot zephyr]

Nah, in #suggestions-posting

[grim tusk]

I can see the :emote: reposts like with the :kill: one

[whole sedge]

If SIS comes back it will be beyond infinitely worse than Emote suggestions trust me
Emote suggestions were on the very much tame side of really bad suggestion practices and specific item suggs are practically on the other side of that spectrum of bad

[hot zephyr]

the issue with how the emote situation went down is that it was only a handful of users abusing them to begin with, as well as reposts not being codified into a rule

[distant vault]

:decompiled:

[hot zephyr]

don't.

[hot zephyr]

CDs don't need a monopoly over emotes

[grim tusk]

The sugg system is fine rn, and probably allowing things like that will disrupt it

[grim tusk]

I honestly dont see a better option here

Or no emote suggs, or people trusted by Fab can sugg them.
Public emote suggs will be chaos considering how the server has grown and how bad emote suggs were before the ban

[dry latch]

actually, I think we can add something like that after the mod is finished. when devs no longer have ideas to implement

[hot zephyr]

that will not be for quite a long time.

[dry latch]

yeah, but that's the only time it would make sense to have it

like how relogic made tml official and added steam workshop support

[whole sedge]

will that ever happen?
Even then really it'll probably have been in development for so long that new people with newer fresher ideas that are better than the general public can likely step up and help develop ngl

[hot zephyr]

@hollow shell Apologies for the ping, just curious about something. Am I allowed to talk about future suggestions? Just want to get feedback beforehand before I write up something

[frail mantle]

Iirc Spark Spreader, the Frost Blossom line, and the GSS gang

[hot zephyr]

(future suggestions being suggestions made in the future, and not relating to future content, for clarification)

[frail mantle]

I think that’s allowed

[hollow shell]

uh, yeah you can

[hot zephyr]

alright, thanks

[whole sedge]

yeah that's just fine and has been done a lot from what I see

[hollow shell]

ye

[hot zephyr]

it's been awhile since I've been around here, heh.

[crude geode]

I’ve talked about suggesting potions be removed from shops once the Draedon update drops and haven’t been banned yet so it should be fine

[hot zephyr]

I see

tl;dr, because I just got home from a 10 hr shift and I'm running on autopilot but I feel like emote suggestions could return as long as new rules are put in place pertaining to them

they should be treated with different criteria and rules due to their low effort nature

[grim tusk]

If emote suggs do come back (somehow, they will likely never return). The suggestion rules will need to be enforced with an iron fist which will possibly affect negatively other suggestions

[hot zephyr]

most notably, a star requirement greater than server suggeestions, but less than mod suggestions and a rule on mass posting on a case by case basis

[hot zephyr]

most of the abusers of emote suggestions while they were still a thing were centralized in a group of like... five people. most of which don't even frequent this channel anymore

[crude geode]

The main problem I have is that emotes are given just as much space in suggestion voting as normal suggestions

[whole sedge]

I also don't really see why new emotes of all things need to be added but i guess?

[hot zephyr]

You could argue this for a lot of current suggestions imo

[grim tusk]

Because the sugg is banned, once it comes back and the server being bigger than before it will be worse

[whole sedge]

I mean yeah you can say the same for some suggestions but a majority of them matter a lot more for actual gameplay or enjoyment of a mod instead of just adding to the discord

[grim tusk]

That as well is a problem, heck they usually took more space with their pngs

[hot zephyr]

is it really that much bigger? sure, comparing the state of the server when SIS were a thing compared to now is a big jump, but we've only gone up by a small amount since emotes were banned

[grim tusk]

People are returning to the server due to update news

[dry latch]

what even happens when we run out of slots? we vote for what to kill? lol

[grim tusk]

I have seen some mentioning that in #calamity-mod-talk and #calamity-update-talk

[crude geode]

I’m surprised no one has brought up the idea of simply posting the png alone with nothing else as a concept for reducing the space they take up. Most of the time reasoning for emotes boils down to “funny” or emotion

[hot zephyr]

or just... not embedding the image

keep it as a link

[dapper coral]

was reasoning for emote suggs not made optional

before they were banned

[hot zephyr]

It was optional

[dapper coral]

then that covers this, i guess

[crude geode]

It’s pretty hard to make a original reason for adding an emote when 90% of the time it’s the same logic behind another emote

[grim tusk]

Indeed

Most of the emote reasonings were the banned “it’be cool”

[hot zephyr]

If they can't come up with a unique reason, that's a feature

That'll already cut down on 95% of the low effort posting

one of the reasons for emote suggestions flooding suggpost is because the requirement of a reason was largely ignored

[whole sedge]

It was fine for emotes as they're relatively inconsequential and pretty meh anyways for a decent chunk of people but I especially don't really feel like it's fair or just to just have them be there in sugg voting period when it's less of a "reach to the devs" kind of thing and more of just ask someone to add this to the discord server only

[hot zephyr]

server and emote suggestions go to mod corner

if you're worried about them taking up dev time, that is.

[crude geode]

I think it’s more the issue of sharing voting space with normal suggestions

[grim tusk]

Will take mod time though, time that could be spent moderating #calamity-mod-talk and other channels where shit usually hits the fan

[whole sedge]

That and they still take up space in voting which can potentially take space away from better suggestions because some people refuse to... scroll of all things

[crude geode]

Since you have things like rework broken mechanic like rage sharing space with haha funny crabulon emote

[hot zephyr]

the moderation team has expanded since emote suggs were a thing, and can expand again

you overestimate the value of mod suggestions

[whole sedge]

Eh, most still will usually end up dropping dead but having less of a chance so someone at least sees a decent suggestion's still better than it be taken up by "Add funny big chungus emote" or whatever

[grim tusk]

Yea most suggs will be indeed shitposts, probably as bad or worse than the average r/CalamityMod post

[hot zephyr]

i only actually remember a handful of emote suggestions being a problem; cirnosip, decompiled, peepoweird, dank's bird

[grim tusk]

The only good emote suggs were suggested by devs or CD, the only exception being

[whole sedge]

I remember all of them kind of just being boring and a waste of space
other than hage

[hot zephyr]

hey, is a classic

[dapper coral]

i will tell you that it takes precisely 3 seconds for staff to decide on whether they like an emote or not

[hot zephyr]

i believe storm is talking about moderating #suggestions-posting, not mod voting

[grim tusk]

Indeed

[hot zephyr]

but even then I think y'all greatly overestimate the frequency of emote posting

[dapper coral]

m

[hot zephyr]

i feel like a revised set of rules could let emote suggestions return, and with those rules quality and quantity would be enforced, etc

[grim tusk]

Enforced hard

The only options for emote suggs i see are:
No emote suggs ever
CD only
Rules enforced with an iron fist

[hot zephyr]

What's the harm in rolling out a few new rules, testing the waters and then acting on them if the situation arises?

anyways, gonna compile some thoughts, ask around and then maybe submit something tomorrow.
peace

[grim tusk]

I dont think reallowing emote suggs would be a good idea, even with so many rules lots people just dont follow em

My only views on reallowing emote suggs are pessimistic and I dont expect anything good coming out of them if they return, considering the activity on #suggestions-posting is now quite low and reallowing something that was banned for a lot of reasons would skyrocket the amount of management and attention the channel needs to have it keep its decency

Anyways i think i should also rest, it has been quite a stressful day

[tardy smelt]

Weow is that an actual server suggestion I'm seeing?

For some reason 90% of all suggestions are mod suggestions lol

[shy pine]

Wait I always thought the suggestions were for the mod

[tardy smelt]

You can do either

[crystal iron]

OK I'm super late but alternatively to a new channel for SIS suggestions how about making a channel for item/boss concepts, not really to get implemented but just to share ur ideas with others.

I'm in this other server where such channel exists and its really fun Coming up with ideas

[fossil finch]

This is probably not getting added

Funny

[eternal escarp]

you do know this exists

its called a wulfrum pylon

also, it looks like your suggestion isnt formatted correctly (atleast not on phone)

[wheat viper]

Are you talking to me?

[eternal escarp]

ye

[wheat viper]

Oh well

I guess I don’t really know the mod

[eternal escarp]

you should refer to the pylons, because if you think their spawn rate increase is too low (which i know some do)

you should try and talk about the pylons instead

also, not sure if you did or not but, a correct suggestion format would be like this:

Title

Description

otherwise the bot cannot take your suggestion to #suggestions-voting

[wheat viper]

Ok thanks!

[eternal escarp]

:+1:

[velvet locust]

idea, add a ticker or notification that tells you how many minion slots you have left when you summon a minion

[earnest raptor]

As huge SIS enthusiast...

If we ever reintroduce this profaned concept...

I'd make it more clear than sugg will get implemented.

Aka allow content suggestions only with dev backing it.

[round wraith]

I just wanted to say,

SCallops

[velvet locust]

oh

fuck

[hollow shell]

@tardy smelt Sugg looks fine, though you don't need to say 200/400 HP exactly

[tardy smelt]

coolio. Should I edit that or can I just leave the suggestion message as it stands?

[hollow shell]

Edit.

change to "significantly buff" or something

[tardy smelt]

done

[hollow shell]

👍

Thanks

[tardy smelt]

np

[crude geode]

I don’t think you really need to reference other suggestions. Just let the suggestion stand on it’s own

[clever canopy]

I’ve been thinking, one of the big problems with wulfrum is that it’s just as quick to get victide by killing cnidarians. So what if they only dropped victory shards, requiring that the player manually get the other materials for victide from the ocean?

Because realistically victide being easy to get pre-DS is a bit odd

[twilit warren]

Traveling to the ocean early game is quite the task I think this would serve as a good drawback

[crude geode]

I've tried to suggest locking victide behind desert scourge, and it didn't go over too well.
#suggestions-voting message
But if you think that'll be received better good luck

[eternal escarp]

i personally think victide as a while should just be post DS, this way people could use the various existing pre boss weapons

[crude geode]

same

[eternal escarp]

nd trust me theres quite a bit

[crude geode]

especially once you consider all the ore weapons

[eternal escarp]

Marnite, Enemy drops, Wulfrum

[still zodiac]

Yeah victide being obtainable pre-boss is pretty wack

[eternal escarp]

even some vanilla weapons

Flarestorm, Spark spreader in rangers case

mana flower...

the list actually goes on and i know it does because i listed them all

(except for summoner which is quite short obv)

[crude geode]

mhm

Victide is just a middle finger to all of those weapons since all of the weapons made from it are better iirc

[eternal escarp]

not fully

but they are better averagely

there are outliers preboss

[still zodiac]

for some classes its very aparent

Cnidarian, seabow

[eternal escarp]

like Marnite Bayonet, which i found better then seabow

byeah

[crude geode]

I also don't get why victide is obtainable without even visiting the ocean or even the sunken sea

like sure desert was originally ocean yadda yadda

but I feel like you should at least have to visit the sunken sea

[eternal escarp]

thing is, slapping a Sea Shard or Sea Prism would be quite wierd

since those are related to the Sea Prism tier

this whole victide arguement also leads back to the wierd nature of Victory Shards as a whole

dropped by 3 entities, Cnidrian, DS and EoC pretty much

and used for random weapons, victide and the lore items (to be removed)

[crude geode]

EoC should really just not drop victory shards

[still zodiac]

It really should just get rebranded tbh

[eternal escarp]

wasnt there a sugg about giving a clearer identity to VictShards before?

[still zodiac]

Yea

[eternal escarp]

i know there was a discussion about it

dont remember a full suggestion byeah

[still zodiac]

It should either get a better connection with the ocean or sunken sea imo

[crude geode]

riiiiight

[still zodiac]

Cause as it was said many times before, they are in a weird spot

[eternal escarp]

tbf im not sure if its original use was intended to be ses related at all

[crude geode]

that's the problem

they're a reference.

[eternal escarp]

it is called "victory shards"

[still zodiac]

Yea

[eternal escarp]

ah, i see

[eternal escarp]

ah

well, what do they do in exxo avalon even

are they just refrences by name?

[crude geode]

The wiki there is hella primitive so unsure exactly but it's dropped by the penultimate boss and I think used for penultimate armor and a weapon?

[eternal escarp]

oh, so sounds like its just a refrence by name

[crude geode]

Yeah sounds like reference for reference's sake which is...awful for a natural, non-patreon part of the mod.

[eternal escarp]

for something that is as a whole really prevalent in pre hm

its like, close to being as prevalent in pre hm to the souls of night in hm tbf

[crude geode]

I'm fine with certain references like the references to nightmare fuel as long as it actually has a purpose and logic aside from the reference.

[eternal escarp]

due to its wide usage all throughout the time

[crude geode]

Used for 11 total crafts (minus lore cringe)

[eternal escarp]

i coulda sworn it had more, never mind then

but it is used for a big chunk of it, iirc

up until like, post skelly? with flurrystorm cannon

dont remember, and checking it on phone is a hassle so, lol

[crude geode]

3 classes get something out of it, melee/ranged/rogue

as well as mage if you count lazinator later

also used for a potion and two different bullets

[eternal escarp]

hmm

yeah its kinda all over the place

though ig its not too bad since its not all over the place in a bad way

what i find wierd is how its origin is just, wierd

it drops from dried up sea enemies and a bigger demon eye

the connection between them being uh

pretty nonexistant iirc

[crude geode]

it's very weird that a material prevalent throughout early game for various crafts just. has no theme/logic behind it.

[still zodiac]

yeah it is

[crude geode]

It's slapped onto things with no real thought put it into it

[eternal escarp]

yeah, it seems like it somewhat ranger oriented

but then agian

eh

[crude geode]

the funniest thing is half of it's crafts are either vanilla items or patreon items

@hollow shell How old are Victory Shards? I feel like they're archaic and ancient, but I may be wrong. Also we've been discussing it a lot overall.

[eternal escarp]

hm, yeah lol

[fossil finch]

they are indeed ancient

like most avalon references really

[novel belfry]

well in that case

[still zodiac]

looking at the wiki page it was added in january 2017

so yea, ancient af

[fallow hedge]

just looked into that mod and it has its own Summoner Emblem, ancient indeed

[fossil finch]

congratulations you now know avalon existed before summoner emblem did

[clever canopy]

The fact that DS and cnidarians drop all the materials for victide kinda make those materials redundant, they could be anything and it wouldn’t make much difference

[eternal escarp]

i think looks good tbh, leaves the question of "what with victide now" but thats just a question for a diff thing ig

[hollow shell]

From before my time, I'll say that

[eternal escarp]

:Fear:

[fossil finch]

do victory shards lock anything important anywhere
oh wait
they lock victide post killing cnidrion
:trolling:
this brings some issues and they could be addressed directly in the sugg i believe

[hollow shell]

Might wanna say that they're an Avalon reference in the sugg, as you bring it up but don't clarify
Or maybe remove that bit cuz it applies to a good few other items, like Phantoplasm

[crude geode]

oh wow never knew that phantoplasm was reference

[eternal escarp]

yeah thats what i meant

[still zodiac]

the more you know

[eternal escarp]

i think it might be worth adressing thst aswell but it might just start falling to "another suggestion" territory

[fossil finch]

uh yeah overdone can you not

because i believe uh

this will only like

split votes idk

[still zodiac]

maybe

[hollow shell]

Yeah this is a bad idea, to post it now that is

[fossil finch]

post it later i g

[crude geode]

we kinda already have a ocean themed material called victide

[tiny valve]

Victory Shards are fine where they are, no reason to mess with them

[still zodiac]

you sure

[eternal escarp]

they are

not rwally

[still zodiac]

read up our convo ig

[eternal escarp]

they sre fine where they are
when you never stop to think of what they are

and they play a small role im victides tiering

[fossil finch]

i think it is worth mentioning victide's name is kinda implied to be related to, obviously tide, and victory because of victory shard
probably just some coincidence or idk but i just thought of this

[eternal escarp]

which is also an issue, imo

byeah

also nah victide is prolly just Victory and Tide

[still zodiac]

as I mentioned earlier I just think it needs to be rebranded

[eternal escarp]

sounds purposeful

[crude geode]

rebranding it would be pretty difficult tbh

[still zodiac]

true

[fossil finch]

that's what i'm saying blast trl

[eternal escarp]

it very much would

[crude geode]

what would you even do with it?

[still zodiac]

make it more related to the sunken sea or ocean

[eternal escarp]

it looked like you doubted yourself so i wanted to back it up trol

[crude geode]

victide and prism shards already exist

[novel belfry]

wait

[still zodiac]

well you can do that to victide too

[distant gyro]

I think the scope of victide is terrible as a whole

[eternal escarp]

Victide bars could use something else, question is what
Sea Shards could work

[still zodiac]

since victide is pretty weird

[fossil finch]

using prism shards for victide isn't a good option imo

[eternal escarp]

Sea Prisms have their own tier which would be wierd though so yeah

[distant gyro]

Victide introduces another theme to the desert that already belongs to the ocean

[fossil finch]

because they already have their weapons and shit

[eternal escarp]

Victide is really just in a very

[fossil finch]

ye

[eternal escarp]

ech spot

[still zodiac]

just turn victide into sunken sea stuff

maybe

[crude geode]

Victide could also just be renamed to Tide bars.

[novel belfry]

yeah, that actually works

[distant gyro]

delete victide is my stance

[fossil finch]

early clam armor

[still zodiac]

that could work too

not a big loss

[crude geode]

delete cnidrions

[clever canopy]

Victide shouldn’t be desert related more than ocean related, it starts to mess up its identity

[distant gyro]

not as big as it sounds

[eternal escarp]

turning Victide to Sunken Sea would maybe bloat the Sea Prism tier and require a fuck ton of respriting tbf

[still zodiac]

well there aren't many options

[distant gyro]

early game definitely has more than the menacing meta bars

[eternal escarp]

which was the origin of the discussion yes

[crude geode]

yeah

[novel belfry]

Is it okay if I make a sugg about moving Victide bars to Sunken Sea tier?

[eternal escarp]

about how victide trivializes pretty much the entire pre boss roster

[still zodiac]

might probably fall into "a lot of work to implement" category

[eternal escarp]

by just existing

[fossil finch]

just remove calamity

[still zodiac]

true

[sleek wadi]

Turn the armor and accessories into sunken sea stuff, and potential remove the victide weapons. Do any of the victide weapons have anything worth preserving beyond just being the best pre-boss?

[eternal escarp]

(they arent the best all the time)

byeah

[novel belfry]

rework them

[sleek wadi]

Like, cnidarian is good for yoyo guys I guess? They're used in some crafting recipes but they're definitely replacable.

[clever canopy]

They’re incredibly efficient in terms of time spent obtaining them versus damage output

[eternal escarp]

every weapon is like, 2 to 3 bars max

[sleek wadi]

Which is the problem, victide beats out nearly everything pre-boss outside of wacky setups like mage's armor which lasts all of pre-hm

[eternal escarp]

victide should reslly just be a post DS thing, top down

[crude geode]

indeed

[eternal escarp]

as a "rival" of sorts to Sunken Sea

this happena alos

like Bloodstone to Uelibloom

being rivaling tiers

leviathan to aureus drops

[crude geode]

I don't really think rivaling needs to happen in this instance tho

[eternal escarp]

i mean, yeah it doesnt have to

[crude geode]

there's just too many other early game things that would immediately be outclassed

by the rivalry between sunken sea and victide

[eternal escarp]

hm

yeah, right

the preboss weapons would hold for a boss and a half

which is

[distant gyro]

amidias already does the rivalry

and ds drops

[clever canopy]

Just make victide something you have to go out of your way to get rather than something you passively obtain by progressing through the mod

A lot of people farm DS for money and end up selling hundreds of victide bars, they’re way too easy to get

[eternal escarp]

tbf after provi theres like, 4 rivaling tiers aswell

byeah you are right

[crude geode]

Desert Scourge just causes immediate problems since it drops the same amount of overall stuff as EoC despite being about as tough as King Slime.

[eternal escarp]

victide could be made to an out of the way exploration, so its fully optional ig, but that sounds like a big overhaul

[crude geode]

indeed

[clever canopy]

Maybe rework victide armor into an omniclass exploration set? So that it doesn’t compete with other armors

[eternal escarp]

like Astral?

[clever canopy]

It already boosts players abilities underwater, it doesn’t need to also be the best armor on the tier for everything else

[eternal escarp]

also next update every ore armor will have a gimmick so theres gonna be enough competition to actually make it a choice instead of a meta option

[clever canopy]

As in copper/iron/silver/gold etc.?

[eternal escarp]

further pushing wulfrum behind, but maybe not since im not sure if it was touched or not in 1.5

yes

gold, iron, lead, silver...

most were already revealed in drae talk

[still zodiac]

Yea

[clever canopy]

Oh damn that’s a pretty big change

[still zodiac]

But its way back then

[eternal escarp]

yeah, very back

(gold was the only one to be fully revealed, the rest are vague reveals byeah)

[clever canopy]

What is gold’s bonus?

[eternal escarp]

im too lazy to dig it up on phone

[still zodiac]

The more gold coins you have the more crit chance you have up to a cap

And enemies have a chance to drop gold coins

That's what I remember but anyways

[eternal escarp]

search for gold armor in draedon talk from ozzatron

[crude geode]

byech offtopic

[eternal escarp]

youll find the thing

yeah offtopic

[clever canopy]

Interesting

[crude geode]

If you compare eoc or king slime to desert scourge I think you can see the actual problem behind it, too much power in the drops and an armor usable by anyone.

[eternal escarp]

its funny how many issues victide has when you just look a little bit closer

[clever canopy]

Yeah it’s basically a second starter kit locked behind a boss

Both wulfrum and victide have some pretty big issues, seems that aerialite and onwards is fine though

[eternal escarp]

those areas are better yeah

thing is, as a whole pre hm still is pretty golden

[crude geode]

@hollow shell Are they any plans behind the scenes to rework Victide? We've been discussing and we feel as though it's kind of problematic due to it's usages and easy to obtain nature.

[clever canopy]

Except hive mind/perfs having no thematic connection to aerialite but that’s just style points

[eternal escarp]

its just thst this very particular spot in the game with victide causes some pretty problematic stuff

overshadowing pretty much every pre boss item, rivalling a pretty Tier full area already

[crude geode]

Aerialite is slightly problematic theming wise since it's a underground ore that generates after killing an evil boss, that's related to the sky, but that's been discussed a lot.

[sleek wadi]

I do like the idea of turning victide into an exploration armor. Maybe swap out its combat buffs for like, generating light-emitting sea-prisms on screen to reveal caves and such

[eternal escarp]

yeah but atleat aerialites problem doesnt impact gameplay too much

[sleek wadi]

Aerialite's issue is just a thematic one, one that I'm not sure how to fix while still keeping its visiting space requirement

[eternal escarp]

ill be honest it sounds dope but pretty time consuming and quite powerful explorstion wise

[still zodiac]

Maybe it could just generate somewhere a bit above ground but not too high like sky Islands

[clever canopy]

In an ideal world there’d be another hive mind tier boss based in the sky that unlocked aerialite, but that’s a lot of work

[eternal escarp]

i remember a sugg by thomas about aerialite that sounded pretty cool

[still zodiac]

Although thinking about it doesn't sounds too great

[still zodiac]

Yeah, It was neat

[crude geode]

#suggestions-voting message

[sleek wadi]

I was just trying to think of something that wasn't just "here, have infinite spelunker" because thats boring but still useful enough to drop combat buffs

[eternal escarp]

yeye

[clever canopy]

It’d have to stay related to underwater exploration, which it’s already great at

All it needs is some abyss lighting

[sleek wadi]

I think by effectively taking the sea-prisms, in this case see-prisms, in the sunken sea and just letting you generate them anywhere for the light is water themed enough for the set. It'd ideally come with being moved to post-DS proper instead of post-nothing.

[hollow shell]

Reworking, no, not afaik. They are getting a visual redesign soon though

[fossil finch]

pogging

[ashen warren]

new suggestion rule but its only purpose is to ban suggestions about the wulfrum pylon

[fossil finch]

[hollow shell]

Damn it, Discord

How hard is it to not get new problems

[fossil finch]

i believe they actually have 1 star

like

i can't remember if they had actual votes

[hollow shell]

They obviously do not have 1 star, Neko

[fossil finch]

anyways it would be weird considering newer ones have their votes

here i see it too so idk

until storm's provi suggs all have 1 or 3 stars

pisscord

[hollow shell]

This happened in another channel a week or two ago, it recovered after enough time

so we just gotta.. wait

[grim tusk]

Discord, go home, ur drunk

[keen zealot]

these are the actual numbers at the current moment

not sure why it's broken for y'all, but remember that ctrl+r refreshes your discord instance

[hollow shell]

Didn't work when I refreshed earlier but yeah it's good now

Just some weird
Discord crust

[mighty knot]

@crude geode I guess but I'd reword that in some way to 'replace' as they're necessary to progression lock victide and they're also used to craft lore items, so they can't really be flat-out removed

[crude geode]

lore items are dying, also how does it really progression lock victide?

unless you consider killing cnidrion a major progression point like a boss

[dapper coral]

lore item effects are dying, the lore items themselves still exist and have crafting recipes

[hollow shell]

^

[crude geode]

makes sense

I feel as though you can always just use something already in the mod with some small uses (or even drops from the boss)

[distant gyro]

You could use the trophy raw

[hollow shell]

Or like, a single Fallen Star

[mighty knot]

lore items are replaceable. but for victide you can get seashells and coral and starfish just by going to the ocean, there's enough of the stuff there for probably at least 30 bars

I'd say that's a fair bit easier than farming 5 cnidrions or killing desert scourge, even easier than getting the (worse) wulfrum armor
(although that's arguably still harder to do without victide anyway)

[hollow shell]

Getting to the ocean does kinda blow in pre-boss tho

No easy options to get back if you die either

[crude geode]

you also have to deal with the ocean enemies there, which are pretty dangerous, what with sea urchins and those sneaky boys

[mighty knot]

I guess that's true, but you can easily get that stuff on the surface beaches

[crude geode]

and there really isn't any reason to go to the ocean for any reason besides duke/siren

exploration there is kinda nonexistent aside from the two chests thrown there most of the time

[mighty knot]

sulphur sea
maybe, but I still don't think victide should fill that role. it's a very tangible and immediate upgrade for beating desert scourge (which is the much more likely way most players will get it, especially in casual playthroughs) and the early-game-but-slightly-grindy already has wulfrum and ore armors and weapons to serve that purpose just fine--cnidrion farming may exist, but it takes a lot of time and effort and, more importantly, you'll gear to do it, unlike farming the ocean, which gives early-game upgrades a purpose. if victide could be acquired without combat but instead with just time, it would outshine and make useless every other early game material

[crude geode]

That's a problem with victide itself

Desert already has a lot of gear/progression associated with it. Early hardmode for sandstorm, post dungeon for great sand shark, and early game for desert scourge and being connected to sunken sea. Ocean just has two bosses thrown in there that don't even use the actual ocean, just the vertical space it has.

I personally wouldn't mind victide being thrown to the ocean. It already is extremely heavily related to the Ocean, and it would add another option for early game, possibly becoming a class set for one that doesn't have one, like melee.

[mighty knot]

that's a possibility. I do like the idea of victide becoming a single-class or few-class (similar to the godlsayer/silva change in 1.5) armor as an alternative to wulfrum or possibly even snow ruffian and desert prowler, since it would make wulfrum armor more useful and provide a more varied progression that allows for replayability and make the ocean more useful etc but that's very different from 'remove victory shards'

[crude geode]

I do hope you've read the good hour or so discussion that happened regarding victide bars

because we discussed a lot of shit regarding it

[mighty knot]

no not really I've got like 5 channels unmuted

can I have a message link to it?

[crude geode]

#suggestions-discussion message

from here and onward, till like the voted suggestions temporarily losing all stars

[mighty knot]

alright yeah

like I said I'm all for victide being retiered or reworked a bit but I think if you want that to happen as a result of the removal of victory shards you should specify and probably even make that the main focus of the suggestion

[crude geode]

That's not the point of this suggestion, the topic of victide bars is for another day, possibly after draedon update comes out

[mighty knot]

but as I think these two lengthy conversations prove, you can't just remove victory shards without at least addressing that

[hollow shell]

You could mention this point in your suggestion, as it does partially apply to this suggestion

Removing the shards would allow for you to obtain victide via exploration
and give some purpose to the Ocean

[crude geode]

done

[hollow shell]

"getting to the Ocean isn't a simple task in early Hardmode"
Pre-Hardmode

Looks good otherwise

You could make it a lil clearer that allowing Victide to be obtained with just Ocean materials would give the biome the purpose it needs
You say that it currently isn't very relevant but you don't really tie it together imo

[crude geode]

gotcha

arguably I wouldn't mind if Victide became a melee armor, it's already used for three (next update with seashell becoming rogue) melee weapons already anyways, so it's got the weapons leaning towards melee.

[distant gyro]

becomes Ocean Bar 2

[hollow shell]

(What's Ocean Bar 1?)

[distant gyro]

Thorium's Ocean Bar

[hollow shell]

Ah.

[crude geode]

it already is lol

[distant gyro]

Victide is loosely ocean

[hollow shell]

I think one of the original Victide set sprites was literally sprited by DivermanSam

Also nah Victide is very ocean

[distant gyro]

it's not the first thing that comes to mind since you get it anywhere but in ocean

[hollow shell]

Look at these names

[distant gyro]

slight exaggeration but it's more commonly found in the desert

with the side of forced desert lore and stolen identity

[hollow shell]

It'll be more distinct soon dw

[distant gyro]

I think to make victide good it has to be not victide and that's the fundamental issue

[hollow shell]

(at least visually, compared to Thorium's)

[distant gyro]

visually won't do it much justice

if you need examples just look at how empyrean redesign didn't totally just dig a greater rabbit hole than meld

[thick raptor]

The bars are actually in reference to the ocean that used to exist where the desert currently is, as its components drop from creatures that used to be a part of the ocean ecosystem.

[hollow shell]

That redesign did help for its identity
The problem is we didn't go all the way when we should have...

[sleek wadi]

Perhaps turn Victide armor into melee only and Wulfrum armor into summoner only, which would end up giving each class their own pre-boss armor set. Melee gets Victide, Ranger gets Desert Prowler, Mage gets Jungle/Hat+Robe, Summoner gets Wulfrum, and Rogue gets Snow Ruffian.

Victide wouldn't drown out everything else, Wulfrum won't have to compete with the upcoming buffed ore armors as a general set, and would push the classes to having different first target biomes as most of these are biome based.

[grim tusk]

Actually not a bad idea (mage also having meteor (until 1.4 tmod) lmao)

And it would also solve the issue of not having much an incentive to farm wulfrum and explore the other areas, rather than just grinding cnidrions in underground desert for gear (which is not hard considering cnidrion has mourning wood AI and its easy to cheese, heck tomb crawlers are more dangerous than cnidrion in my opinion in the early game)

[whole sedge]

Yeah, what spark's said is likely the best solution

[sleek wadi]

Would be hard to make into an actual suggestion, as compounding suggestions like I'd have to do has historically been a bad move. Especially because my sugg works best under the assumption that victory shards get yeeted

[grim tusk]

For this probably not

[cobalt pewter]

If Wulfrum becomes a summon gear, I can see its set bonus being reworked to resemble Wulfrum Pylons ngl, boosting player minions in a small area around the player

But back to Victide

[grim tusk]

Yea it would help wulfrum a lot

[cobalt pewter]

Victory Shards main purpose from what I seen aside from victide stuff is lore items

[grim tusk]

And victide can get more interesting setbonus rather than sea shell that is funny when used with drills

[grim tusk]

And for crafting lore items this would be better

[cobalt pewter]

Mhm

[crude geode]

incorrect

It's used for patreon items and random weapons

[cobalt pewter]

That's inconsistent purposes smh

[grim tusk]

Yea victory shards are too inconsistent

[cobalt pewter]

Victide and lore items are sort of consistent set of uses

[sleek wadi]

Victory Shards are utterly replacable

[cobalt pewter]

But yes

[whole sedge]

They could easily be snapped and replaced with another simple item and nothing would change really

[cobalt pewter]

Remove victory shards, make victide purely ocean themed, and maybe as mentioned earlier, make victide armor melee? And wulfrum summoner?

I still like the prospect of summoner wulfrum

[whole sedge]

It fits well thematically with wulfrum pylons and such while also giving summoneran early game armor that may be useful so

[cobalt pewter]

Also wulfrum doesn't need to be dwarved by fucking victide all the time

That's another issue that'd be solved by making both armors a single class

[sleek wadi]

Wulfrum summoner helmet sees the most use anyway because 2 minions at the start of the game is a bigger damage boost than any of the other hats provide regardless of class

[crude geode]

indeed

I think there can be a reasonable sugg made from making victide and wulfrum into class armors

[sleek wadi]

I do too, I just need victide to get properly made pre-boss outside of cnidy boi

[grim tusk]

Also speaking of wulfrum, energy cores need more uses lmao

[grim tusk]

Which would be ocean

[sleek wadi]

Just purge the victory shards and we'd be golden. As a sidenote, having all the class's starting armors be seperate sets I think is really nice flavor for pre-hm as HM is where classes start to converge on one bar

[grim tusk]

Then sort of split again at plant

[sleek wadi]

Then reconverge at post-Providence where they stay the same bar for the rest of the game currently

[cobalt pewter]

Then 1.5 will have a bit of diverging on post-DoG

Then converge again on Auric

[grim tusk]

And another way would be a non-mini-mini boss enemy

Like dried seekers maybe

Similar to how draconic swarmers can spawn pre-folly

[sleek wadi]

Dried Seekers, perhaps have some ocean mobs drop it? I'd love to see victide be pushed to either sunken sea or ocean fulltime no desert needed

[grim tusk]

Reaching ocean in large worlds though

And sunken sea is post-DS

[crude geode]

I can't really recall if calamity is designed with large worlds in mind or with medium worlds

[grim tusk]

Medium probably

Although the pros outweigh the cons though

[sleek wadi]

Reaching ocean is a bit of a bitch, which is why I'm more favorable to just purging the shards. The difficulty should be reaching the ocean and collecting the various materials, which often asks you to deal with ocean mobs

Including the mantis shrimp IIRC while you're pre-boss which has poor vision options for underwater. You got glow sticks and nothing else

[grim tusk]

Idk why the hell mantis shrimp wasnt locked to hm only

[sleek wadi]

Because funny living boulder

[grim tusk]

Funny 500 dmg pre-boss

[grim tusk]

Which is why i proposed dried seekers, they would be somewhat rare but would drop the materials, you could either go to ocean or grind seekers and cnidrions while avoiding underground desert shit and worldgen

[sleek wadi]

Thinking about it, purging mantis shrimp from pre-hm might make for a good suggestion. Does pre-HM REALLY need a fighter mob that can one-shot you when pre-HM already has terrible underwater mobility and vision as well as having all the loot be on the ocean floor?

[tardy smelt]

Absolutely true

The times I ran all the way to the ocean in a 15+ minute trip only to get twoshot by one of those vile little things that I could in fact barely see

[hollow shell]

It spawns in PreHM?

[sleek wadi]

Yeah it do
https://calamitymod.fandom.com/wiki/Mantis_Shrimp

[hollow shell]

Uh
Yeah probably good to make it at least Hardmode-only then

Player's already squishy enough in PreHM with sharks and drowning

Doesn't need the guaranteed oneshot

[sleek wadi]

There is a ton of things that make getting ocean floor loot dangerous, a walking boulder is not what the ocean needs

[tardy smelt]

[hollow shell]

Looks good Penumbra. Though you prolly don't wanna have "Why?" in your title line. Could go at the start of the reason or between the title and reason

[hexed ore]

Noted

[hollow shell]

ye 👍

Good suggestion Spark, quite convincing

[crude geode]

@hexed ore Thalassophobia, not thalassiphobia

[hexed ore]

Autocorrect being shit once again

[rose latch]

I think the mantis shrimp are a case like Medusa in vanilla

way too strong for pre hard mode

[eternal escarp]

Medusa is a hardmode enemy though

unless ive missed something

i personally dont remember seeing a medua ever before HM

[frail mantle]

iirc they can rarely appear pre-hardmode if a medusa statue hooked up to a wire spawns

[eternal escarp]

ah

[rose latch]

nah she was pre hard mode

but then moved

in 1.3.1

but since they can't make the statue exclusive to hardmode

it is still possible to get them in pre hard mode

[eternal escarp]

sounds pretty specific tbf

unlike mantis shrimps which just casually spawn iirc

[rose latch]

they did naturally spawn before 1.3.1

which is why I was reminded of that from this suggestion

[hollow shell]

I remember PreHM Medusas, yeah

Made Marble caves very spooky

[clever canopy]

Reckon this would get a ! In its current state

Kinda weak reasoning

[frozen hornet]

Big wyrm becomes a boss,is that enough?

[fossil finch]

A problem with this is maybe that mage's equipment (because you aren't getting jungle that early realistically before having gems anyway) is that it's much more reliant on rng
Planetoids exist anyways so i don't think it would matter that much

Also about the abyss wall sugg: abyss doesn't have a biome background, so it would look odd as fuck having the default ug and ruin the immersion more than having those walls be there do
Don't they also spawn water so the abyss doesn't dry anyways?

[still zodiac]

they do, yes

[ashen warren]

I mean, the abyss is the abyss

Isn’t it supposed to be empty? Also I think abyss has enough mini bosses tbh.

[eternal escarp]

it has the reaper sharks, the squids, the J(uvenile)EW (god i just realized how that shortening goes) and Bobbit Worms for normal enemies

and iirc theres like

2 more normal enemies you likely dont see because haha weapon destroys every trace of life in a 8 km radius.

[tardy smelt]

Jared

really

for being the last shred of exploration you get to do in the entire playthrough

[eternal escarp]

people name the Adult "Jared"

[tardy smelt]

ik

I kinda wish the third trip to the abyss weren't so... easy

once you get the abyssal diving suit the only measurable challenge lies in T3 and that's it

you can just spelunk down T4, grab the terminus then bail

[hexed ore]

Did Hectique start that joke or was he just being a part of it

[eternal escarp]

i think he started it

but not many actually continue it because it gets old

[tardy smelt]

I don't think adding more enemies to the last tier of the abyss would add more to it

considering the only real loot there is the bobbit hook and the terminus

I think the key would lie in adding more steps to unlocking the abyss shrine's chest

potentially involving crafting a key from materials found in all layers of the abyss to tie everything together nicely

...or that would just create needless backtracking

[eternal escarp]

(and post polter weapons from the abyss)

[tardy smelt]

I was referring to just T4

considering the immense breath loss there compared to T3

I think it's much less worth it to fight the minibosses there than to just clear out a section of T3 and farm for the minibosses there

[eternal escarp]

T4 is where the fights happen iirc

[tardy smelt]

they spawn up in T3

though it'd be nice if boss jared were a T4 thing

like say

if you use RoD in the top tiers all you see is a big black shadow shaped like it coming to bite your ass

[eternal escarp]

theres no way AEW would fit T4

iirc thats like the main reason an abyss boss doesnt actually exist

[tardy smelt]

but in T4 is where you can take your vengeance

[fossil finch]

Jared is precisely t4 boss

[tardy smelt]

mm? elaborate

[eternal escarp]

from what ive heared of AEW's current boss plans

[fossil finch]

AEW is meant to be fought in t4 next update

[eternal escarp]

no way hed be able to be a boss specifically in T4

he is?

[frozen hornet]

yes

[fossil finch]

And uses the verticality in his attack design

He also will enrage outside t4

[tardy smelt]

do you have like any link to this?

I'm curious to check it out

[eternal escarp]

i vividly remember a screenshot of an (in dev) attack and him being out of water

[fossil finch]

Search fab's message cuz currently no

But it was mentioned 100%

[tardy smelt]

any clue to when it was mentioned?

[eternal escarp]

from what ive heared of his attacks (and the sheer size of AEW himself) i assumed it would be an out of water fight

[fossil finch]

Not really

Maybe it wasn't even fab idk

[tardy smelt]

big oof ;-;

[fossil finch]

#calamity-update-talk message
Found this by aqua

[eternal escarp]

interesting

[tardy smelt]

I do think that AEW is gonna be on a pretty high tier

like- in between yharon and the endgame duet

[fossil finch]

Fab mentioned it's like post scal on boss checklist

[tardy smelt]

damb

maybe terminus is locked behind it?

either way uh

this is kind of off-topic for being #suggestions-discussion

[fossil finch]

Ye

Anyways back to whatever

T4 abyss has enough shit imo?

It has enemies

Next update a boss

[ashen warren]

It has 2 normal enemies I believe?

[fossil finch]

It has the worm of biting your cock off

[ashen warren]

The bloatfish and the Bobbitt worm

[tardy smelt]

yeah

in my experience you'll barely find them spawning

but I just cleared T4 in about a minute "in my experience" and I've only reached that tier of progression once before

[ashen warren]

Only the worm drops anything tbh

[tardy smelt]

yeah

[ashen warren]

While the minibosses drop a few useful things

Probably why the spawns are like that

[tardy smelt]

the chaos pufferfish drops souls of chaos

[ashen warren]

Essence?

[tardy smelt]

yeah.

dangit.

[ashen warren]

You ought to have enough by that point tho

[tardy smelt]

but uhh... that's like the most inconvenient way of farming those you can ever imagine?

[ashen warren]

While the reaper shark drops 3 weapons and a material used in armor weapons and an accessory

[tardy smelt]

just fight ravager

[ashen warren]

Ye

[tardy smelt]

yeah reaper shark has amazingly good loot

though.... it also spawns in T4

um

T3

[ashen warren]

Rarely ye

[tardy smelt]

I've found it quite commonly in there

[fossil finch]

Fighting it on t4 is easier though

[tardy smelt]

probs

it's a matter of making a good arena ig

[fossil finch]

I mean you don't make arenas in the abyss but whatever

[void kelp]

About that

[tardy smelt]

[void kelp]

That message by Aqua tells you all you need to know :)

[fossil finch]

Well yeah figured that out when they said it

[mossy oar]

I'm a tad late to this conversation, but if wulfrum became summoner and victide melee, would the sets be buffed?

[eternal escarp]

if it was to happen, and if it was needed

(though if it was to happen i doubt it would get buffed, more so reworked)

[fossil finch]

My main worry with it is that mage's early sets would technically all be later than the rest, as they require some bit of mining
Not much but still

[gray nebula]

#suggestions-voting message

this suggestion already got approved brov

[mossy oar]

Oh damn

My bad

[hollow shell]

That's fine, it can still be posted
It is a little soon after the previous one but this is still what :ballot_box_with_check: is for

(It'd only be a problem is Samswize was the poster of the original sugg too, which he wasn't, best I can tell)

[fiery pulsar]

accs for scal?

expert

[ashen warren]

#help-advice-read-pins

[fiery pulsar]

i clicked teh wrong channel

[sleek wadi]

Victide would hopefully get a different set bonus than funny seashells, Wulfrum would be able to have a different set bonus thats more summoner focused like maybe increased damage for summons near the player

Oh whoops wrong reply

[clever canopy]

Tbh I prefer class specific armors for the most part, allows for more creative bonuses

Also makes each playthrough more varied. Instead of crafting the same armor with a different headpiece your next pt might take you to a different biome to start

[fossil finch]

your mom suggestion (doesn't need discussion)

[grim tusk]

Alr 👍

[sleek turret]

gamer suggestion (i need edrags)

[crude geode]

Probably shouldn’t use the change to steampunker as reasoning, future content and all

[fossil finch]

bruhve

[grim tusk]

(Will take a while to make em, also you could just asked in Coclmamity server)

[sleek turret]

anyways in all seriousness good suggestion

[grim tusk]

With or without that the reasoning for current version is still there

[sleek turret]

star struck water consistency of having seeds instead of astral monolith

much better

[crude geode]

Yes but future content is still a don’t

[grim tusk]

There underlined the reasoning for current ver

[crude geode]

Just…remove the bit about future content

[grim tusk]

Crossed it out

It helps my point as its not the main argument

If it were the main argument it would have to get deleted

[sand umbra]

suggestin' things directly related to or based on future content is a don't

acknowledgin' that somethin' in a comin' update ends up boostin' your point even further without makin' that upcomin' change the main point is not

Storm's sugg does the latter

[crude geode]

Okay

[mossy oar]

The next update is completely removing hybrid weapons, isn't it?

[grim tusk]

Yes

[mossy oar]

On top of that, doesn't rogue already have a dungeon chest weapon?

[grim tusk]

And im pretty sure suggesting making vanilla stuff into rogue is a dont

[grim tusk]

Heavenfallen disk

[ashen warren]

im talking like making it so we can craft them into doing rouge damage

[grim tusk]

Still same thing

[ashen warren]

the description of the scourge of the corruption says a powerful "javelin"
and you throw javelins like you throw the weapon
and you also throw the vampire knifes

[grim tusk]

And so is daybreak and so are many others

Melee has some throwing weapons

[ashen warren]

yes and most of those you can change into dealing rouge damage

[grim tusk]

Yes but thats against the rules

[mossy oar]

Melee isn't strictly melee. It's a flaw of the class.

[grim tusk]

That is why true melee subclass exists

Also with making em have rogue variant, what about the stealth strike? Have you thought of that, how fundamentally broken they’d be with rogue’s powerful accessories, the weapons were made and balanced with melee stuff in mind. Making em rogue will completely break the balance.

Go compare melee and rogue elemental disks, you’ll see how differently they interact with the gear (and how stupidly the rogue one interacts with things like moonstone crown, old die, glove of recklessness and vampiric talisman)

Another example would be how busted the rogue scourge of the corruptor used to be in older versions, nanotech and auric’s bonuses boosted it to the point it was one of the best weapons vs Scal despite being available a tier earlier, and it obliterated Yharon ph2. Meanwhile the melee scourge of the corruptor was pretty bad

Also vampire knives with vampiric talisman (you could even add empyrean armor) would be unbalanced as fuck (as if current vampiric talisman wasnt busted enough)

Rogue and Melee weapons dont mix

[ashen warren]

i checked and it never said anything about changing melee weapons into rouge only rouge into throwing

[grim tusk]

What im pointing is another issue related to your suggestion

[zenith hazel]

bot's down, notified amber

[ashen warren]

also that does not explain why vampire knifes all of its upgrades have both melee and rouge variants and it does not

[grim tusk]

Thats a flaw with the current version, next patch the rogue versions of empyrian and illustrious knives and scourge of the cosmos are getting deleted

#calamity-update-talk read FAQ

[fossil finch]

all melee/rogue hybrids are dying, why is this sugg even up still

[whole sedge]

Yeah uh variants are getting yeeted and that rogue into throwing could also probably be expanded on

[fossil finch]

extreme

[hollow shell]

"see above" refers to

But the main issue is changing a vanilla weapon's damage type

We don't want to have that kind of effect on vanilla class options

[grim tusk]

And doing that will probably lead to stuff like 1.3.x Scourge of the cosmos unbalance

A weapon that is perfectly fine on one class will be ridiculously weak/overpowered on the other due to the different kits of the class (more detail provided earlier, edited it a bit so its easier to read)

[hollow shell]

Luckily we don't gotta worry about that any longer

[hollow shell]

@balmy jewel You need a better reason than "I'd be cool".

And, it probably would be better to suggest this once 1.5 comes out
as Adult Wyrm is getting more of a presence

[balmy jewel]

I meant that as a suggestion for 1.5

[hollow shell]

Ya gotta wait

[balmy jewel]

Like post draedon endgame

Okie

[whole sedge]

Yeah you've gotta wait for 1.5 then

[balmy jewel]

I thought th suggestions included suggestions for 1.5

[hollow shell]

(And, spoilers, ||it'll have some worm minion competition at that point in the game||)

[balmy jewel]

:O

[hollow shell]

Nah, you gotta suggest based on what's present in the playable version of the mod
Suggesting for an upcoming update has a few problems with it, as you don't know exactly how things will be executed nor the full scene surrounding your suggestion until you play the update yourself