suggestions-discussion

[hollow shell]

I was gonna say, yeah

Isn't this the third Arcane suggestion in a row?

[pine star]

second

[hollow shell]

y'all might Spoiler Effect yourselves, or confuse voters

[pine star]

yeah

[hollow shell]

Also nah Elephant's sugg also mentions Arcane

[pine star]

Oh

[cobalt pewter]

I think Arcane has been brought up for a good amount of times by now, but the amount of consecutive suggestions about it is a lil concerning

flashbacks to the chaos named 8 fucking consecutive Abyss suggs pioneered by yours truly ft. Demik

[hollow shell]

(first time you posted this you got 131 stars, second time 167)

(So if these trends are correct, this one will pass)

[cobalt pewter]

(hopefully)

I won't die on this hill until Phaseslayer got something like this

I know I seen the changelogs for held projectile true melees (in fact it's partially the inspiration for the sugg)

But doing Phaseslayer specifically this way (instead of just dmg bonus from melee speed) would signify the relationship between the potential melee speed integration and how its damage scaling to rotation works

[shadow knoll]

So if I did suggs abt moving YoYo bag in progression, where would you guys want it?

I was actually thinking of moving all yoyo bag materials higher up in progression

I.E make yoyo string post preforaters or hive mind

[hollow shell]

You don't necessarily need to specify in your suggestion

where Yoyo Bag would get moved to

[shadow knoll]

Well I just think it'd be good to have like a general idea

[hollow shell]

In fact it'd probably be better if you don't specify
Cuz people could agree with the idea of moving it further, but disagree with the area that you say it should get moved to

[shadow knoll]

Ok, i was thinking personally that it'd be post plantera, crafted with perenial bars, but I'll just say to move it up

Prolly give examples, would that be bad?

[cobalt pewter]

Not sure why the other materials need a change

Moving yoyo bag itself later while keeping its material intact would be just fine

[shadow knoll]

I guess you could make an argument for this, but I just feel like counter-weights are a (somewhat not really but kinda) complex mechanic to have available at the start of the game.

[sand umbra]

string should not be post-anything

[shadow knoll]

Ye ik

That's why i said don't move it

[sand umbra]

and iirc counterweights are still awful on account of hitting nothing due to how they work

[shadow knoll]

The only one of the yo-yo bag materials I think should be moved are the counter-weights.

[sand umbra]

the only worthwhile component of the bag is the glove

and the glove is fucking stupid

[shadow knoll]

Ok, but they're still there

[shadow knoll]

Don't diss yoyo string like that man, melee needs extra range where it can get it

[cobalt pewter]

Melee isn't meant to have big range?

[sand umbra]

you know as well as I do that string is worthless past the early stages of the game

[cobalt pewter]

At least not a sustainable, long range

Flail range isn't sustainable, for instance

[shadow knoll]

ye ik, but That doesn't mean it's NOT viable.

[cobalt pewter]

While yoyos are locked on your cursor

[sand umbra]

yo-yos aren't melee weapons no matter what the base game insists

[whole sedge]

ah yes yo-yo accessories kind of the only thing making most of them slightly worthwhile just because of yoyo glove
would be interesting to move Yoyo glove to a later progression point though to make it so you don't have it for a fair majority of the game really

[shadow knoll]

I mean

[sand umbra]

on a phone call so you're gonna have to give me a second

[shadow knoll]

they kinda are

[cobalt pewter]

Yoyo Glove effect also needs a rebalance imo

Actually fuck it I'll repost one of my older suggs as well

[sand umbra]

also you don't need to ping me with each reply

feedza. I am going to slap you
we've been over this

[shadow knoll]

ok sorry

[cobalt pewter]

😳

[pine star]

hahaha

[cobalt pewter]

Over what

[pine star]

SLAP HIM

SLAP HIM

[sand umbra]

you JUST did the fucking Phaseslayer sugg and we already have a perfectly serviceable yo-yo related sugg here

[cobalt pewter]

Akchually

The phaseslayer one is technically the 2nd repost

Of exactly the same sugg

But ig ye

[shadow knoll]

my yoyo suggs is perfectly servicable

[sand umbra]

whether it's a repost or not is irrelevant
my point is that there's a perfectly good sugg about yo-yos right here and you're like "hmm yes let me make a new sugg that overshadows the one most recently posted. that is a good long-term decision"

[cobalt pewter]

it's not technically overshadowing, in fact the purposes of the suggs might be vastly different

but ok

[sand umbra]

so anyway now that I'm off the phone and can explain

string is irrelevant past pre-Hardmode because starting around early Hardmode your yo-yos have large enough range to where string doesn't matter
counterweights are worthless even with their recent buffs because the entire problem with them is that their range is shit and they don't do nearly enough damage to justify the amount of trouble you have to go to to use them

the glove on the other hand is a straight multiplier to the amount of times you hit things and thus your damage output and no matter where you move it to it is disgustingly overpowered

even if you make it sit out of the bag for several tiers it is still going to be a must-have option

Glove is dumb and Glove is the main reason Bag is dumb

[pine star]

Yoyo Glove is A LITERAL "DOUBLE DAMAGE"

[sand umbra]

YES

[pine star]

Maybe first we need to talk about nerfing Glove

And buffing the other parts of Bag

[cobalt pewter]

The fact that all, and I mean a l l HM+ yoyos are balanced ON the accessory instead of otherwise

[sand umbra]

and every single yo-yo obtainable starting in Hardmode is balanced around that double damage

instead of the other way around

and with all due respect I don't think the devs are going to have a very high opinion of someone requesting to rebalance basically an entire weapon type for one sugg

[cobalt pewter]

Yoyo Glove is the culprit, yes

And yeah that'd be a tall task

[pine star]

yeah

[cobalt pewter]

Unless there are some madlad testers who can suffer through testing the entirety of HM+ yoyos

[pine star]

It might fall under the subclass rule?

[cobalt pewter]

My Yoyo Glove sugg was fine?

[pine star]

But this is technically making a subclass weaker, not stronger

[cobalt pewter]

It never got anything

[shadow knoll]

Well I mean, my suggs was never abt the viability of YoYo glove, just that it should be moved in progression

I understand that it's broken

But I don't really think it'd make sense to have an Item that's made into another accessory right of the bat

like ya know... muramasa

[pine star]

that is true

[cobalt pewter]

That's a common issue with vanilla stuff ig

[pine star]

And also Handgun is another example

[cobalt pewter]

Direct upgrades on the same tier that aren't even meant to be sidegrades

They just

Bruh

[shadow knoll]

Cough cough muramasa cough cough

firey great sword

Excaliber

Sun stone

Golem eye

A bunch of other stuff i don't wanna mention

[pine star]

yeah

the list of examples would be far too large

[shadow knoll]

it's insane how little room to breath vanilla gives to... basically everything.

The only things that are safe are items that don't have upgrades

That's where calamity excels cus it actually spaces out the upgrades so they aren't just instant, like the entire crystalline line is a great example of this, you get a good chunk of time to use each weapon, and you never really feel like you HAVE to start preparing for the next upgrade.

[warm scarab]

nvm

[crude geode]

Moving yo yo bag in progression doesn’t really solve the fact that every yo yo has to be balanced around having two copies, at least to me.

[shadow knoll]

maybe, but it alleviates the problem until a proper balance is found

Like temporary solution

[hollow shell]

You have the overpowered option for less of the game :P

[crude geode]

Progression skipping exists

[hollow shell]

Well
No that doesn't really matter

Cuz it means Yoyo Bag has hold over less yoyos in progression

You aren't going to use it with a pre-Plant yoyo if it's made into a post-Plant acc

[cobalt pewter]

As discussed earlier, Yoyo Glove is actually the culprit in the Yoyo Bag's broken-ness

[vital condor]

Make yoyo glove sold post-plant rather than post-wof

Boom

[storm sky]

That would only delay the inevitable, unfortunately

[cobalt pewter]

Changing yoyo glove to be not as op is an option, but no one would realistically test all HM+ yoyos for the change

[hot zephyr]

Rework Yoyo Glove to be the yoyo equivalent of an emblem, completely scrapping dual yoyos

[ashen warren]

Changed yo-yo bag to give you 150% more damage instead of giving you dual yo-yos - Done

[vital condor]

Maybe if yoyo glove halved the distance you could have the yoyo from you

[ashen warren]

That just makes yo-yos bad

[earnest cape]

Ah yes

You forgot yoyo string exosts which makes that obsolete

[ashen warren]

Also why would a yo-yo bag crafted with string halve your distance

[earnest cape]

By that i mean that is incredibly stupid

[vital condor]

Because 2 yoyos

For a certain quantity of string, splitting it in 2 means each length is half as long

[earnest cape]

Its not gonna solve how broken yoyos are with the glove it just makes life a lot harder when using yoyos

And halving is a gigantic nerf

[vital condor]

Okay maybe not halving

[earnest cape]

Reducing the length in general is also bad

[vital condor]

But giving it a decent downside to make up for ~double damage

Would do something about it being so mindblowingly broken

[ashen warren]

Yo-yos are kinda balanced around the double damage though
If it’s balanced it doesn’t really make it broken

[earnest cape]

Yeh

I think the point is making singular yoyos viable so it isnt a must with using yoyo goobe

Glove*

[vital condor]

And there's not that many things you could nerf it with except maybe reduced damage
Can't do time of having yoyos out because of the ones that last infinite

[ashen warren]

If you reduce the damage the bag gives you you’ll have to buff the yo-yos to compensate

[vital condor]

And the issue is unless yoyo glove/bag changes somehow

Making single yoyos good

Means yoyo+bag is twice as good

So you'd still use bag

[ashen warren]

Yo-yo bag isn’t even “broken” tbh. Yea it’s a bit absurd that an early hardmode accessory is good until endgame but all things considered yo-yo bag is fine and doesn’t really need changes

[vital condor]

Just feels weird that an accessory that powerful that early has 0 downside and requires an entire class of weapons to be balanced around it existing

[sand umbra]

it's not fine

literally every yo-yo in the game is balanced around that accessory

not the other way around

it's not even that it's good until endgame it's that you must use it until endgame

because any yo-yo you can get once you can get Glove, and therefore Bag, is shit without them

...why am I getting upset over this I stopped trying to have this conversation with people a while back

that and I've long since expanded my thinking beyond a single weapon type

[earnest cape]

You see, your mistake is that these conversations are inevitable

And where did that bring you

Back to yoyos

:deathevasion:

[sand umbra]

I can't fucking escape it

it all comes back to this one stupid accessory that nobody actually wants to rework

[earnest cape]

insert thanos line here

byeah

[sand umbra]

and I don't think it's gonna get reworked within Cal, or at least certainly not from a suggestion, because it essentially means rebalancing a sizable chunk of the melee weapon roster on both sides of the coin (vanilla and Calamity)

[earnest cape]

oh yeah definitely

[sand umbra]

think about it. every single yo-yo starting from when you can get the Glove is normally balanced around you using the Glove. that's how vanilla does it, and Calamity just sticks with it
now I don't remember the exact number off the top of my head because I haven't had to have these conversations in a long while but if I had to wager a guesstimate I'd say about two dozen weapons? would have to be changed to account for the rework to this one accessory

[cobalt pewter]

Two dozen seems a lot

Lemme check rq

[sand umbra]

I know that's child's play compared to the eldritch horror that is rebalancing the entire post-ML segment of the game but it's still a disproportionately large amount of work that'd be necessary to be able to rework one acc (technically two but Glove and Bag are basically the same fucking thing)

hi Demik

[dapper coral]

if it were to happen, it is certain not to happen for 1.5 because tester death
and yes i would tend to agree that a yoyo bag rework, while not illegal by sugg rules, would be considered on the chonky side should it get to dev, further reducing its chances

henlo thomas, long time no see

[cobalt pewter]

Okay yeah actually 26

14 cal and 12 vanilla

Those that are HM+

[sand umbra]

...what the fuck I was actually close? okay then

yeah that's 26 distinct weapons that'd have to be individually rebalanced to not necessarily need whatever the new Glove/Bag is

so basically: if it does happen, it probably ain't happenin' for a decently long while
and glhf getting it to happen with a sugg

[dapper coral]

basically if you want any hope of a rework happening, save it for after big man drae lmao

[sand umbra]

yeah

[cobalt pewter]

There are still 7 and a half more months into 2021

[sand umbra]

at the very least, save it for after the big man drops and we can fuck up the exo mechs

as you're probably much more likely to get a favorable outcome after 1.5 is all said and done and the testers have had some time to just. be

[muted osprey]

two suggs with 200

roxcalibur shrine and OD enrage indicator

[hollow shell]

👍

[rose latch]

about the class specific reforges

what could a reforge do for summoners

they only have one unique stat

and that's minion slots

as far as I'm aware

and aren't they trying to cut down on minion slot stacking

[still zodiac]

minion knockback

[rose latch]

worse than arcane

[untold pagoda]

H

[still zodiac]

🤫

[untold pagoda]

Maybe something that increases attack speed or something

[still zodiac]

Or speed, yeah

[untold pagoda]

Maybe a bit of armor penetration

[still zodiac]

Depending on the minion type

[untold pagoda]

Perhaps minion aggression or smth

[still zodiac]

Lucky will give that

[untold pagoda]

What

[still zodiac]

Or precise too

Lucky and precise are getting buffed back

[untold pagoda]

Ooo

[rose latch]

do minions work on some kind of speed stat though

[still zodiac]

2%/4% and 1 armor Pen on top

[eternal escarp]

dont they in 1.4?

in 1.3 maybe not

but in 1.4 it could be a possible thing idk

[rose latch]

I'm not too familiar with 1.4

[untold pagoda]

Me neither

[eternal escarp]

prty sure whips can increase summons attack speed or whatever

[untold pagoda]

Nah just the whips themselves

[eternal escarp]

ah i see

in that case

its likely not an easy thing to add

[untold pagoda]

Yih

Or maybe since the update will be out when 1.4 tmod comes out i think

Whip speed

Or whip range

So a summoner version of violent

[eternal escarp]

whips shouldnt get more good things

[untold pagoda]

Yeh i guess

[eternal escarp]

and im prty sure most of the team arent too keen on whips so its likely there wont be much whip content

[untold pagoda]

Amazing

Imagine they just straight up remove whips

574 - Removed whips.

[eternal escarp]

id say thats highly unlikely

[untold pagoda]

I am aware

[eternal escarp]

but i personally would not mind

[untold pagoda]

[cobalt pewter]

Increased summon damage towards targeted enemies is an option (the thing with right click on summon staff)

[fading silo]

But don’t whips do that already? What would be the point then?

I know 1.4 isn’t out

We should allow sentries to gain the buff then

[cobalt pewter]

Technically these 2 are sorta different

[fading silo]

True

[eternal escarp]

the more they can make whips less of a "this is summoner" and more of a "this is support" the better

[fading silo]

But whips are a 1.4 thing and I’m pretty sure the devs are waiting on 1.4 tmod to lessen the amount of bugs and fixes.

But yes

My issue with sentries is that they’re stationary and yes that’s basically what a sentry is.

But their damage is really good

Especially the energy staff or profaned sentry

Homing beams

Best thing ever

[cobalt pewter]

Sentry takes summon damage

So I doubt my proposition would be somehow not as good on sentries

[fading silo]

The problem with sentries is that you’re not stay in one spot

They’re only best with slow bosses, events, pillars, etc.

Why doesn’t the sun spirit give off a little light?

It’s a sun spirit

Like bruh

I’m not asking for a lot of light for this summon. It’s early game so that would be op

[still zodiac]

It gives off tiny bit of light actually

I think so atleast, from what I remember

[fading silo]

Idr

It’s hard to tell

[frail mantle]

pretty sure they don't

[cyan lagoon]

speed does nothing

speed only applies on how fast you can use the weapon, not how fast the minion is

[shadow knoll]

What if Yo-Yo glove gave you an extra yo-yo, but it deals 30-50% less dmg?

It'd still be useful, and ye it'd require lots of balencing

But It's a solution I think would work

Also, why are all the Yo-Yo's balenced around Yo-yo glove in the first place?

Like Who actually thought that was a good idea?

(IK it wasn't anyone on Cal dev team cus you guys aren't that stupid)

But for real who the fuck thought to balence an entire weapon sub-class around ONE ACCESSORY?

[grim tusk]

sentries too

[pine star]

Not all
Just most

[shadow knoll]

still, that's NOT good

[pine star]

I know

[long hamlet]

Well, you can still use the yo-yos without the glove. It helps, but it isn't a requirement, like you play with other weapons, accesories do help, like auto-swinging for meele weapons, but you can go through the game without it.

[shadow knoll]

ye, but it doesn't change the fact that most Yo-yos are balanced around the accessory, it may not be a necessary part, but neither are weapons technically.

[long hamlet]

Now, do I like the fact that yo-yos have so little accesories? No, I really don't. But I'm not sure how to expand them in a interesting way.

[long hamlet]

Yep, that's the thing, you can beat the game in many ways, be it without yo-yos, magic weapons, summons, etc... The only that limits you is what you want to use.

[shadow knoll]

That doesn't immediately solve the problem though

Just cause I DON'T want to use it doesn't mean it's not strong

People will use an accessory if it benefits them greatly.

[long hamlet]

I know

[shadow knoll]

Which YoYo bag does

[long hamlet]

yep

Now imagine the game without the bag, it would be a total pain, right? So that's why it exists, silly reason I know, but that's how that goes.

Devs: We want yo-yos in terraria.

• adds the yo-yos *
  Devs: Now, how do we make them more worthwhile?
• adds the accessories *

[shadow knoll]

That's the thing, the weapons should not be based around the accessory! The accessory should be based around weapons, if YoYos were too weak, then make them stronger and then add accesories. No other class does this kind of thing because they're able to stand on their own. Accessories are supposed to give a small boost, not make or break the class.

[pine star]

mana flower

[long hamlet]

yeah haha

But don't get me wrong fishyboi, I agree with you that yo-yos need a bit more love, I was just trying to explain what was the thought process behind them, as I see it.

[shadow knoll]

That one isn't as defining as you think, it's really just mana flower (spamm) or mana regen (burst dmg)

[pine star]

I guess so

[fossil finch]

because you have to take for granted people WILL use it because it LITERALLY DOUBLES YOUR DAMAGE USING SAID SUBCLASS

and, yes, it was someone on cal dev team because that's a thing that applies to cal yoyo's, not vanilla's

why was that done instead of changing yoyo bag?
That's another question

[pine star]

people don't like yoyos?

[ashen warren]

It's been forever since I've used a yoyo

As an actual serious part of my loadout

The 1.4 flails are way more fun, too

[long hamlet]

I like them fine, to be honest.

[long hamlet]

haha I agree.

[shadow knoll]

I mean, ye, but YoYos are literally balanced around the glove, so if you don't use it, YoYo= bad, and if you do YoYo=good. I'm asking why anyone on Terraria dev team even thought it was a remotely good idea to have such an OP item, and then to balance YoYos around said OP item so the item isn't as OP is it may have originally been.

[shadow knoll]

who wants to do a shit ton of play testing

[fossil finch]

you'll have to do the shit ton of play testing nerfing yoyos or nerfing the acc, so that's not a reason to do or not to do

[shadow knoll]

But Cal team weren't the ones to originally add the feature, they had to balance around it otherwise vanilla yoyos would be fucked.

[fossil finch]

you missed the point of vanilla yoyos not minding glove but whatever

also turn off ping replies god

[shadow knoll]

Perhaps, and I do believe we'll get a YoYo bag rework one day, but they'd have to do both actually. They'd have to rework the dmg numbers on all YoYos (vanilla or modded) , then they'd have to test the acc. and the new dmg numbers, and if any of them are off, they'd have to fix it.

BTW sorry abt pings

also vanilla yoyos don't mind glove because for some reason, they're balanced around the glove, so they're really only dealing like half the dmg they should be dealing without it.

[crystal iron]

a bit late but its not that bad for yoyos to be balanced around the yoy ba since its pretty much the only yoyo accessory,\

itd be odd if you playd yoyo class and didnt have the yoyo bag, unless you want to challange yourself but in that case you know what youre getting into

its kind of like how bosses are balanced around the player having wings or some sort of flight, to an extent at least

[ashen warren]

And Yharon is designed assuming the player has a dash

[sleek turret]

uhh

why?

[grim tusk]

Add more reason to explore and mine inside astral underground
Astral underground feels very lack luster, only bringing a reason to explore it for a slight bit once you've killed Astrum Aureus with its new weapons and gear if mage (astralacnhea staff) or summoner (starbuster core and hive pod staff). Adding a new block that provides resources like stardust during early hardmode (and even astral ore and/or celestial fragments once Deus is defeated) and even a new material (which could be used later) would give an incentive to explore and mine inside the biome and would provide an alternative way to gather stardust rather than spending a bunch of time in the surface killing enemies.

what do you think, any changes?

[sleek turret]

cool sugg

[mild kelp]

I think that would be a good idea too

[earnest cape]

read the "don'ts" doc slug

[grim tusk]

#suggestions-posting message
needs more reasoning, why do we need that? (it'd be cool is completely invalid)
@mild kelp

[mild kelp]

Yeah I guess so

[earnest cape]

(also chain guillotines exist btw)

[mild kelp]

Just feel like it would be nice to have a mod that adds a chain knife upgrade

[earnest cape]

also format the sugg properly

[mild kelp]

We don’t speak of that

[earnest cape]

add a line break between the title and the rest of the sugg

(shift+enter)

[mild kelp]

I guess that would be more of a dono item lol

[sleek turret]

tbh

i think its uneeded

since melee has literally the biggest weapon arsenal in the mod currently

[crystal iron]

iirc chain knife is the spear like weapon, technically, so, wouldnt the solar whip weapon and the post providence upgrade to it technically count as an uograde to chain knife

[mild kelp]

I guess

Gtg

[earnest cape]

welp ping a mod time thn

[eternal escarp]

chain knife is a jabbing flail

theres like

[sleek turret]

its uhh

[eternal escarp]

urchin flail, chained guillotines

that work like it

[sleek turret]

a launched flail???

[eternal escarp]

or somewhat like it

idk i call em jabbing flails because they just jab once

[sleek turret]

yeah

[eternal escarp]

byeah uh

[sleek turret]

ball o' fugu is the same

[earnest cape]

launched flail is specifically for stuff like spear gun, golem hand and ko cannon iirc

[eternal escarp]

sugg is lacking reasoning and kindof misses the rest of the weapons that work like it, and it also not formatted correctly

which will break the bot

[earnest cape]

byeah @ mod?

[sleek turret]

i guess

[eternal escarp]

dom seems online

~~rest of online mods are gaming so ~~

[earnest cape]

welp @vocal grotto come here we need your ❗ powers

[vocal grotto]

I already beat you to that

[earnest cape]

[eternal escarp]

[novel belfry]

[earnest cape]

@spring lantern no future content, 1.4 included

[novel belfry]

whips don't exist in 1.3.5

[earnest cape]

read the "don'ts" doc

[grim tusk]

@spring lantern
no reason as well, go read Don'ts doc

[earnest cape]

im faster

[grim tusk]

dammit

[dapper coral]

Gone

[languid quartz]

Damn mis kinda destroyed storm

[earnest cape]

omori player smh my head

[spring lantern]

even when making 1.4 TModLoader adapted update o mod?

[earnest cape]

anyway

what

tmod's current version is 1.3.5

not 1.4

so it's still future content

[eternal escarp]

and 1.4 is far away for now

[sleek turret]

when tmod 1.4 releases calamity may have whips

[grim tusk]

you need to wait for 1.4 tmod (aka long time) for those suggs

[earnest cape]

yeh

[spring lantern]

cough https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2443883149 im sorry for russian link for page which says there's beta test - just to know about

[earnest cape]

Beta test

[grim tusk]

BETA TEST

[cobalt pewter]

beta test

momentum

[grim tusk]

also why tf ping

[eternal escarp]

yeah i think they get it

[sleek turret]

why did I read that

with a strong russian accent

[cobalt pewter]

Chain Knife and Guillotines can be interesting when expanded ye

[grim tusk]

also the link seems kinda sketchy

not from tmod team themselves and from someone named Amogus
like if it could be taken seriously

[eternal escarp]

they behave exactly like ball of fugu or urchin flail or clam crusher (somewhat) so i mean

they are already somewhat expanded on

[spring lantern]

dck it Im russian im sorry

Im sorry if i harmed you somehow

[sleek turret]

no you didn't

i was purely joking without intention of harming someone

[spring lantern]

ok

And how do you think about permanent boss' minions? There are some of them already in vanilla - True Eyes of (almost spelled as CrabBar's "Choochoo") Ctulhu, but they are more fitting for some other bosses too... at least I think so, please correct me if im wrong. Maybe in future, EoL good for having 'em, but for now idk im retarded... How do u rate my idea?

[weak field]

Those boss minions aren't really boss minions, they're just a reason to shoot stuff from outside of the boss

And shooting stuff from nowhere in midair is unfair

[spring lantern]

insert Etherial Lances, which appear from nowhere in midair

[weak field]

Well there's lines as telegraphs

[spring lantern]

well, these minions can be full melee like Plaguebringer, or telegraph their attacks much like for example EoL does

This good?

[weak field]

Full melee minions might as well be piercing missiles

[sleek turret]

the problem of permanent boss minions is that they'll get incredibly annoying

[weak field]

Remember old ravager's walls

Or his missile that follows you around even after he's dead

[sleek turret]

it was like, years ago Yharon used to spawn a lot of bumblebirds back and practically they were permanent

[eternal escarp]

do we really need more "permanent boss minions"

[sleek turret]

you could keep killing those bumblebirds

[eternal escarp]

(which most of the time are just a part of the fight, like True Eyes of Cthulhu)

[grim tusk]

Scal moons

[earnest cape]

what true eyes
minishark, literally any piercing weapon gang

wait

[eternal escarp]

minishark for ML

[earnest cape]

im retarded dont mind me

[eternal escarp]

brainlet moment?

lmfao

[earnest cape]

byeah ig depending on how it's introduced into the fight it could be fine

[spring lantern]

the brimstone monsters are projectiles, they behave too simple and can be reflected with some bullet-reflecting gear

[grim tusk]

they cant be reflected since long ago

[sleek turret]

oh yeah

relic of something dropped from providence?

[grim tusk]

and in earlier versions they were invincible enemies

[earnest cape]

pretty sure "bullet reflecting gear" doesn't exist

[grim tusk]

resilience

[earnest cape]

pretty sure the bug of that deleting moons is gone?

[grim tusk]

evolution and Gael's sword

[earnest cape]

gael is fixed

long ago

[grim tusk]

but yea fixed

[earnest cape]

and gael's too inconsistent to be reliable so go figure

[sleek turret]

The Transformer also reflects things.

But those have to be bullets.

[cobalt pewter]

The Evolution?

[grim tusk]

already mentioned

[cobalt pewter]

God

[spring lantern]

hallowed encha... cough, i mean Evolution from Ceaseless Void

[earnest cape]

same case with evolution

turn off reply pings

[cobalt pewter]

No.

[earnest cape]

you aren't going to go to bullethells rocking evolution and swinging gael's cause that's dumb

feedza

i will call mods

[cobalt pewter]

[spring lantern]

Some other sides of permanent minions idea? What do u wanna add about?

[grim tusk]

i see no reason to add them whatsoever

also wouldnt it be invincible minions rather?

[spring lantern]

it would

[spring lantern]

I hope

[grim tusk]

Disable reply ping

[spring lantern]

ok

but how?

[grim tusk]

See this

Click on @ on

[spring lantern]

ok

btw the main difficulty of fighting ML is that he summons 3 true eyes and simultaneously fires all the crap it shoot in previous phase

and all of you have defeated him as usual

[earnest cape]

(at least in rev+) every part about moon lord is consistent and never changing which includes true eyes, the only thing changing is you so its predictable

[earnest cape]

and this btw

[spring lantern]

that what i said... but this still makes behaviour somewhat less predictable as sources of dmg are shifted from boss' position

[earnest cape]

(turn off reply pings) like the point i also mentioned it depends on how it's introduced

I think you're talking about you changing where you're going where I also mentioned the only thing that changes is you

the boss does the exact same thing every time and nothing changes besides you

[spring lantern]

...and sources of projectiles, right?

[spring lantern]

can i get an example?

[earnest cape]

sorry brain ain't working strong enough at 3am

[spring lantern]

ok. Russian's bedlam with time zones, what did u want?👍

[grim tusk]

#suggestions-voting message
I should have thought about this when the sugg was made but maybe making the boosters activate with double tap up instead would be better, they are vertical dashes after all.
But hey it passed and thats good

[cobalt pewter]

Oh hey that's fairly quick

Oh hey the rogue OOA content sugg got approved too so pog

[grim tusk]

Finally

[crystal iron]

how would makin draconic swarmers more common be an inicitive to fight dragonfolly, ik you said to get the feathers more reliably but rn you have a great incitive to fight dragondfolly anwyay, to get feathers at all. i mean its kind of odd that draconic swarmers exist in the first place, there is no signus or ceasless void normal enemy alternative to drop their respective loot even tho theyre just as important. and ik this is entirely subjective but dragonfolly isnt hard enough to have to fight it with post - dragonfolly gear, and even if it was a really challanging fight, it only makes sense, cuz effulgent feathers are really important, just like DoG and Yharon are a challange cuz they drop cosmilite bars and yharon souls respectively which are both important materials to preogress, like effulgent feathers are

[grim tusk]

I put there, make the feather drop chance lower to compensate

Also folly has rage upgrade, which will be far more important next patch

And the good post-folly gear is dropped from him, specially since cocktail and effervescese are getting nerfed real hard

And have you tried folly on rev+

Specially death mode

In death hes far more difficult

specially with defiled rune on

@covert cloak there is no reasoning and i think that is imposible considering the limitations of modding

[covert cloak]

yes, sorry hit enter and meant to hit shift enter

[grim tusk]

Understandable

[covert cloak]

i took it down and i will repost when slowmode wears off with a reason

again, sorry

[grim tusk]

It was a far better idea to just edit the suggestion

But now you’ve gotta wait

[covert cloak]

i was, but i figured i wouldve gotten in trouble before i could finish it

did you say that it would be impossible to do

[grim tusk]

Considering tmod’s limitations its very unlikely you could edit menu UI

[covert cloak]

ok, might suggest it to vannila devs later

[grim tusk]

U know they dont work in Terraria anymore and it would be more logical to ask the tmod team rather

Or heck maybe Dom knows something

[covert cloak]

how do i contact the tmod team

[river glen]

tmod discord

[covert cloak]

thank you guys

[grim tusk]

Maybe we should ask Dom first

After all he’s a very experienced modder

I see u typing a wall of text

[crystal iron]

replying to this and verything below,

1.) the drop amount may be lower but the point is that draconic swarmers shouldnt exist in the first place, for reasons stated above

2.) wouldnt the rage upgrade be another inacitive to fight folly, making swarmers less relevant

3.) since the good drops are droppped post folly then that is yet another inicative to fight folly, making swamers even less relevant

4.) and yes, ive done folly in rev, its not that hard, but as i said, its entirely subjective, death mode is naturally supposed to be harder adn defled feather is a self imposed challange

sorry if im missing the point with point 2 and 3

i mean 3 adn 4

[grim tusk]

Also swarmers exist cuz lore

[crystal iron]

rght lore, comepletely foropgt that exists

[grim tusk]

They are essentially dragonfolly’s spawn

And also it would help people who are struggling to fight folly or people that dont want to fight it at all (like speedruners or people who just hate the boss)

[crystal iron]

well, as i said before, its kind of weiord that you can skip folly, considering effulgent feathers are basically just as importasnt as say yharon souls

[grim tusk]

And it would also make the mob be a contant threat rather that usually never appearing

Jungle will now have an occasional post-ML threat rather than one that never wants to show up

[grim tusk]

Yea its kinda weird but makes sense lore wise

And makes the game not as linear

[whole sedge]

More so that there can be an alternative to folly for yharon but

[grim tusk]

Yea we kinda used to have bumblebirb

I mean Bumblefuck

But an alt to Yharon lore wise wont make sense

[hollow shell]

@sinful pine "It is a nightmare trying to get Profaned Soul Artifact"
I think you mean Profaned Soul Crystal

Crystal is the one with a special obtainment challenge, Artifact is the one you need to use in order to get Crystal

[vocal grotto]

Menu UI manipulation is possible. Though, like music in the music mod, it would revert to normal during reloads.

What cannot be done with TML alone can almost always theoretically be achieved via IL Editing

[clever dagger]

i know its a very niche case, but you can use demonshade+chibi pet without summoning the red devil

and crystal is only useful post scal anyways

[crude geode]

Ah yes lemme use this hardcore only item

[grim tusk]

People cheat it anyways

then get killed by it over and over

Iirc the only armors you can use for the challenge are tarragon, fearmonger and demonshade (with chibi devourer)

[crude geode]

At that point just craft the Crystal

[grim tusk]

At that point just do night providence (should last the same) /s

[hollow shell]

@final karma Can you come up with some more substantial reasoning than it being "a bit odd"?

Like, elaborate on why you think that it is odd

[warm scarab]

it's possible like main menu music and backgrounds, but i'm not sure what would happen if you reload the mod
and since il edit exist you can basically change vanilla into whatever you want

[grim tusk]

Probably a crash like with tester mod

[warm scarab]

[copper onyx]

My suggestion reached 200 stars, shouldn't it have some new outline thing?

[frail mantle]

it gets the new outline when it's delivered

and it gets delivered when it gets delivered

[hollow shell]

byeah it's a manual process

(for the time being)

I'll deliver yours now

[warm scarab]

[hollow shell]

Oh boy

@oblique cliff Boss suggestions are not allowed, see the Don'ts Doc in pins

[oblique cliff]

sorry

[hollow shell]

(We already have our remaining bosses planned)

[oblique cliff]

k

[shadow knoll]

What boss was it?

Like what was the idea

[eternal escarp]

it doesnt matter

[crude geode]

^

Dm the person if you’re interested

[hollow shell]

@final karma Reminder

[hollow shell]

Hrm

[crude geode]

Night’s/Bloody Edge isn’t limited to post-sg like the others

[hollow shell]

Well for one, you should mention Night's Ray

and yeah that's true

[grim tusk]

and arent those getting buffed

specially nights/bloody edge

[hollow shell]

The swords will inflict debuffs yeah

[crude geode]

I really dislike the idea of these penultimate pre-hm weapons being just...support weapons. Makes them feel a lot less impressive overall.

[rose latch]

well right now the two swords aren't even support

[crystal iron]

oh wow didnt know

[crystal iron]

theyre not really that impressive tho

well, im mainly referring to the melee swords ig

although lunarian bow isnt that useful either

[grim tusk]

iirc after 1.5, the other tiers will get rebalanced

and heck some have already been made not op or useful

mostly around early hm

#changelogs message
most are melee weapons but theres some others

like Gauss rifle and Keelhaul getting killed

and rogue stealth rework

[crystal iron]

wow ig ill re-do my sugg then

[grim tusk]

which essentially requires balancing every rogue weapon

[cobalt pewter]

They won't rebalance pre ml stealth rogue for 1.5 ig

Priority is post ml

[dapper coral]

afaik the only pre-ml stealth rogue stuff that's getting balanced for sure is the weapons that were previously hybrids and now are rogue-specific

other than that, it's unlikely

[cobalt pewter]

Also skyfin bombers and nychthemeron because yes

[grim tusk]

Gacruxian mollusk

[warm scarab]

you know the rules and so do i

these weapons would never be allowed past

[glossy stone]

The suggestion I posted may be way too personal, but considering I already don't like Yharon very much... yeah.

[ashen warren]

He roars when he does an attack, like dashing

So maybe a better way to word would be add more unique indications as the roars sound similar

[glossy stone]

Pretty much, yeah

Fix'd my post

...I think

[frozen hornet]

I like this

[cobalt pewter]

A more diverse sound design in bosses would be nice yeah

Yharon is a clear example, but there might be other examples out there

[frozen hornet]

Eye of Cthulhu maybe,but I'm not really bothered by it's roars

[lunar sky]

Honestly adding more sounds to bosses in general sounds great

Good sound design in games is important

That sound that plays when you summon DoG is

[frozen hornet]

Dragon pow :ohgod:

[muted osprey]

2 suggs at 200

DCU reworked to be like onyx car key and cryogen projectiles not being almost impossible to see (thought I'm pretty sure that's getting changed this update?)

[hot zephyr]

(the secret to seeing cryo projectiles is turning off your background 😉)

[frozen hornet]

Or fight at night

Not sure if that works tho

[sleek turret]

just use omniscience potion anyways

proyectiles will become red

and they will not blend with the background

[frozen hornet]

Didn't think of that

[fading silo]

[earnest cape]

Omniscience doesnt work at day or when you have torches literally everywhere

[frozen hornet]

Do you really need so many torches that the tundra melts over

[earnest cape]

yes to be able to s e e

[still zodiac]

you're on the surface

[earnest cape]

how do you fuckin see when there's no light at night hmm?

anyway off topic

[fossil finch]

just use gemspark smh

[crystal iron]

the reasoning is knda lack luster

and also, dosnt thi tehcnially count as dont cuz 1) joke suggestion, kinda??? and 2) bos suggestion, kidna???

[zenith hazel]

@dense atlas no joke + boss suggestions, read sugg don'ts doc in the pins

[dense atlas]

oh ok sorry i had memory problems 😦

i forget things easily

[rugged belfry]

I'm like 40 away from 200 😬

So close

[river glen]

sugggestion to like instead of removing double jumps in ravager 2nd phase, to like reduce their effectiveness instead since its borderline impossible to do it in defiled unless ur gonna be standing right beside him with 0 to little mobility

[cobalt pewter]

death

[river glen]

bruh moment

[shell grotto]

Or abuse hooks with closely spaced platforms

[lunar sky]

What did they do to #suggestions-posting

Did they disable read history or did they just delete all the messages

Or am I just going crazy

[grim tusk]

thats probably just not loading

with me it works fine

[lunar sky]

Weird

For me it just shows the pin

[dapper coral]

if you mean, the only message in the channel is the pinned message, that's because there are no suggs in posting right now

[hollow shell]

Yeah there's just no suggs in posting lol

Haven't been any for 12 hours ish

[dapper coral]

which, to be fair, is a striking sight

[hollow shell]

Indeed, quite rare for this to be the case for longer than an hour at most

[zenith hazel]

suggestions is dead, everyone go home

[ashen warren]

Not yet

[crystal iron]

specfic nd also, no biome suggs

[ashen warren]

Well it's not really a new biomes it's more of an addon

[fading silo]

Still

[crystal iron]

still specific

[fading silo]

We can't suggest new biomes.

I think

I

[ashen warren]

At least the sunkin sea one

[fading silo]

I don't know

Honestly the doc doesn't specify everything. It just gives an umbrella of rules.

Most of the rules could be condensed into one rule imo

nvm

I'm just ranting

[crystal iron]

very little reasoing too

[fading silo]

Also this would take a lot of time (spriting and stuff) unless the devs actually wanted to do this.

[crystal iron]

definately not the top priority rn

[fading silo]

true

[crude geode]

Leviathan has no real connection to the Sunken Sea

also calamity is actively trying to disconnect ravager from golem and the lizhards

[fading silo]

Kind of hard when the boss movement is basically golem

With an added Super Stomp and missiles

And stuff

[crude geode]

@ashen warren I hope you are aware dungeon is one of the biomes with the most content in calamity, unlike the astral biome which is only semi relevant in hardmode.

An extension for it is really unnecessary.

[fading silo]

Yet we all forget about the sunken sea

also I've never or at least barely gone to the underground astral biome.

[crude geode]

Sunken Sea is fine tbfh. You visit it twice, and it has something for almost every class both times. also keep in mind how small the biome actually is tbfh

Underground astral troubles are known about

[fading silo]

Ye I know

[hollow shell]

This is a very specific suggestion with not enough non-example content to make it okay

[crude geode]

yeah

also the reasoning is lacking, being only like a sentence of "dead biomes"

[grim tusk]

no suggs in #suggestions-posting, well sugg repost time

Add more rogue weapons that give stealth upon hitting
Weapons like Sylvian Slasher and Final dawn have a unique and unexplored concept of regaining stealth upon hitting a target. Adding weapons that do that could add more variety to rogue's small arsenal and open new playstyles and even improve areas where it could be falling behind and lacking options. Perhaps giving them stealth strikes or some other stealth effects would make weapons more dynamic and fun to use rather than just using them as support for another weapon.

i feel like i can add more to this suggestion but i have no ideas

[crude geode]

doesn't giving them a stealth strike kinda defeat the purpose of them giving stealth on hit, which is to charge more powerful stealth strikes?

[grim tusk]

yea maybe

[harsh briar]

Why does Yharon have a border

[weak field]

So you don't fly around the world and cheese him

[harsh briar]

Well why is it so small

[fossil finch]

because a main design flaw for 99% of terraria bosses is the fact you can just run away from them and invalidate 99% of their attacks, there's a lot of ways to counter this, yharon has a border

it isn't small at all

[harsh briar]

Lmao my clumsy ass keeps running into it

[grim tusk]

The border is better next patch

[fossil finch]

it allows for virtually all vertical mobility one would want yeah

and: do not be clumsy (as in that's not the border's fault) and yeah

it will get the wavy tornadoes removed next update

[weak field]

Or maybe like build walls if you keep running into them

[harsh briar]

So they wont be wavy?

So its a border with a more obvious hitbox?

[fossil finch]

i mean the hitbox is already obvious

it's pixel-perfect the tornado sprite

just that the wavyness tends people to run onto them more (because they dash/run into somewhere the tornado wasn't before but it's there when they get to the place)

[harsh briar]

Yea

Also the fact that they are insta kill is super annoying

[fossil finch]

it's not really tbh

because like

you just aren't supposed to touch them on the first place

[crystal iron]

ye but like, when youre fighjting yharon, its kinda hard to not fly around a lot and not accidenlty run nto them, althiugh you can place alls to stop that, its still pretty unfair

[fossil finch]

it's not that hard imo

[harsh briar]

it is lol

[fossil finch]

like you are supposed to keep track of your speed, and be wary about all your screen
it takes practice more than anything

[grim tusk]

^

And tornado isnt wavy next update

[crystal iron]

ye maybe, but one hitting you is still a bit unfair

[fossil finch]

mindlessly moving around like you'll do normally will end up in running onto them
You are supposed to not do that on the first place

[grim tusk]

And this is why u put a wall

No guarantees though

[harsh briar]

No its when i accidentally dash

[fossil finch]

or get good like me :sungla:

[grim tusk]

I dashed into the nadoes a couple of times when messing with final dawn

Very fun

[fossil finch]

i never do accidental dashes

then again my game runs as smoothly as the development of bethesda's games

[crystal iron]

i have to fight yahron oth framw skp off so accientla dashes are more than constant

[fossil finch]

frame skip off should like precisely make accidental dashes less common

[crystal iron]

ik ball and cahin exists btw

[fossil finch]

because more frames=more reaction time

[crystal iron]

ye, more reaction tme but since it slows down your game, it technically makes it so you press buttons faster, if you now what i mean

[fossil finch]

no it doesn't

that's not how it works

lmao

[crystal iron]

thats how it works on my pc so

i press "A'' twice in like 2 seconds and apparently i still dash

[fossil finch]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

anyways a discussion we had over here about this same topic didn't end much well
point is:
bordernadoes are supposed to make you pay attention to how you move on the first place
them instakilling you is not unfair at all

[harsh briar]

slows down your game?

What are you smokin man

[crystal iron]

yknow

more frames

[fossil finch]

frame skip off literally slows down a game

by, y'know

not skipping every other frame

[harsh briar]

If you have shit fps

[fossil finch]

bruh

[harsh briar]

It slows down whenever its under the cap

[fossil finch]

(Not how it works)

[harsh briar]

Eh

Well idk how it works

[fossil finch]

like it's literally on the name man

frame skip on skips every other frame

[crystal iron]

idk, scal borders dont damage you (probbly a bad example)

sory for ping

[fossil finch]

meaning a 60 fps game skips 30 of those frames making it like twice as fast visually
with skip off you'll be seeing the 60 frames every second, making it run slower visually

running into scal's is a death threat 99% of the time
It's also considerably smaller so yeah bad example kinda (plus fights work very differently)

did you die with silva's invul on

[harsh briar]

invul?

[fossil finch]

anyways that's not for here

this got offtopic

[harsh briar]

Yea

why i deleted

mb

[grim tusk]

#suggestions-posting message
@cold cosmos
That kinda belongs more in #bugs-read-pins and its a fairly known bug ( in there for the known bugs) that will probably get fixed in 1.5

Also i suggest you read the don’ts doc which should be at the top of #suggestions-posting and is pinned here

[cold cosmos]

Oh

[grim tusk]

But yea the drones are kinda wack indeed

[cold cosmos]

Im currently in a playthrough and experiencing a lot of frustration over the drone AI so i figured i might as well suggest a fix

[grim tusk]

Go into #bugs-read-pins the next time

[cold cosmos]

Ok

Will do

[fossil finch]

Well uh

[hollow shell]

@warm panther >:(

[fossil finch]

Oh no need to ping someone

[cobalt pewter]

[kindred sierra]

star requirement met

[hollow shell]

aight

Actually, this should have been a bluecheck. I'll process it as that

[fossil finch]

there is already an spawner for both i mean

i get why it's convenient to have them in a single item but this sugg lacks pretty much any reasoning

recommend you to read the pinned don't doc which also has some tips for suggestions

@keen dust

[keen dust]

its a good idea tho

and the event spawners are a one time use

[fossil finch]

second thing is a reason, first thing is not

these go in the sugg, anyways (By editing preferably)

[keen dust]

ik im just saying

[fossil finch]

again, refer to the dont's doc, (Pinned here) and put a reasoning in there

[keen dust]

ok i said i get it

[fossil finch]

blood relic doesn't need blood moon materials wdym?

and you can only get the blood moon spawners through a blood moon
(referring to this)

[grim tusk]

Did the previous astral underground sugg suggested a new block?

Actually i should have made the title “Add a new block to the astral underground”

[hollow shell]

Doesn't matter much anyway cuz it's already planned

Down the line

[grim tusk]

[gray venture]

nice

[eternal escarp]

blood moon spawners through a blood moon
since when does the blood moon give you blood moon summons?

pretty sure calamity's blood moon summon is post brimstone elemental

[hollow shell]

I could understand what he's sayin if it included Blood Orbs in the recipe

But... it doesn't

Maybe he's getting it confused with the ones in Journey's End?

[eternal escarp]

he might think of the Bloody Tear yeah

(frankly, i used to think it was 1.3 aswell)

(((i didnt play 1.3 for that long kekw)))

[hollow shell]

The reason why the WoF charge seems inconsistent is because it increases an internal counter for every frame he's too far away from the player, with a maximum time of 10 seconds (dynamically shortens in Death as his life goes down)
(counter drains if the player is in acceptable distance too)

So you can have WoF offscreen for 9 seconds and have no charges
Teeter between onscreen and offscreen for a while to keep the counter stable
then the next time he's offscreen for 1 second he will charge

[river glen]

what about player inflicted damaing debuffs scaling

they do not do anything and contribute very little

[hollow shell]

You're only about the 4,000th person to complain about debuffs not being strong enough

[eternal escarp]

(the 5000th should get rewarded )

[queen ledge]

question about the internal counter, does it still increase while he's doing his charge lasers? before i enlarged my arena he used to have a certain point where he chained two charges in a row

[hollow shell]

It seems like the counter gets reset once you get in range and he goes back to normal speed

[queen ledge]

there has to be some weird stuff going on there then, because on death mode speed i can barely create any distance between me and him while he's still shooting. he gets closer than ever and he still thinks im too far away. though, that's only if im using the cramped arena, which makes me believe that blocks are involved with the enrage somehow

[hollow shell]

Line of sight is

If there are blocks between you and him, it counts as you being too far away (behind cover so standard lasers can't hit)

[queen ledge]

does this count for each individual eye, or just if both are blocked?

[hollow shell]

I'll check in a bit (afk atm)

[hollow shell]

aight sorry for being late as heck @queen ledge
It's the mouth.

It points towards the Wall of Flesh entity itself, which is the mouth

[queen ledge]

oh that is the last thing i wouldve expected
that still ties into the feeling that the enrage is out of my control aside from how i make the arena

[queen ledge]

i get that it's supposed to stop you from just blocking off the boss to not deal with the lasers... but it really doesn't. all it means is i have to modify the arena to allow WoF's mouth to look at me and the bottom eyeball can still be blocked by my bridge. i think it'd be way better if he shot some slower wall-piercing lasers throughout the fight instead of just after charging, though i'm not sure if that would fall under specific change suggestions

[hollow shell]

You could add it to your suggestion as a potential solution, like as an example
You lay out enough of the problem already for there to be a good balance

[crude geode]

WoF is kinda of an eh fight imo, especially when compared to Slime God or Moon Lord, which are the final bosses for Calamity Pre-HM and Terraria's final boss. WoF is just too easily cheesed, and there really isn't a whole lot interesting about the fight.

[hollow shell]

Well
aside from the main gimmick, the run fight

[violet dagger]

well moon lord is crap

[pine star]

Advancing Boss of Doom is cool

[grim tusk]

Yea the strange lasers after the wall are bad, too slow and bunch up with the other lasers making scenarios where you cannot dodge at all

They are the main reason you never want WoF to dash

Maybe making the lasers have a delay before being fired and then coming out at the regular speed would be better

Alternatively if WoF charges lasers barrages now are faster and go through blocks to keep up with the player which will likely could outspeed the others

Or have some sort of predictive laser barrage (with a telegraph ofc)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/512925739486674954/840639674133643304/True_melee_WoF_Trim.mp4 would also help to prevent scenarios like this when too close or at certain distances away from it

Clip credit to Xyk

[hollow shell]

Please god do not give WoF predictive lasers
With PreHM mobility that just reads as "guaranteed damage"

[grim tusk]

Maybe like way weaker prediction

Kinda like retinazer or smth were it aims very slightly ahead and is more accurate with its shots

OD (and Yharon next patch) prediction would indeed be bullshit

[muted osprey]

retinazer has prediction

malice OD and yharon will be :fear:

[grim tusk]

Malice OD is kinda simmilar to 1.4.4.1 OD of what Piky has said (just harder cuz projectile speed shenanigans and stricter timings)
Yharon according to Aqua moves at mach 5 in malice (now do it without RoD of discord @ Aqua )

[grim tusk]

Actually, maybe making hungries more resistant to kb (and leeches bulkier) might help

As they barely pose a threat and are completely invalidated by tesla pot

[hot zephyr]

Maybe the solution is the simplest one; give the mouth an actual attack or something.

[river glen]

the mouth is getting a new attack

to prevent it

so u actually have to jump

[hollow shell]

Que?

[fossil finch]

so jaja
Well, no?
What do you mean by that?
The mouth isn't getting a new attack afaik

[river glen]

isnt it?

i watched aqua's stream? or am i high

must be then

[cobalt pewter]

Either malice changes or Fab is doing stuff on WoF

Or you're high yes

A possibility indeed

[hollow shell]

How long ago was that? Such an attack hasn't been mentioned in the dev server within the past 2 months, that I can see

[river glen]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

idk, i think like a week ago

[cobalt pewter]

Dom was surprised when I showed him an image Fab sent about new DoG attack

So things can be a bit confusing about vc

But regardless

Rev+ WoF can be improved yes

Trying to nohit it is more boring than ironing your clothes

[river glen]

jump on like a set interval

@hollow shell seems like it is getting one

[rugged belfry]

He's getting one for Rev+ at least <#changelogs message>

[hollow shell]

Ah yes I see

Weird that it wasn't mentioned in dev yet

[haughty owl]

That is changelog 563

So exactly 10 days ago

[spring lantern]

it's too radiacal, but i have an idea of debuffer class, which focused on special damage-dealing debuffs. How would u rate this idea?

[frail mantle]

The devs don’t want to add any more classes iirc

New classes are hard to add because you have to make new weapons, new accessories, new armor, preferably new mechanics etc.

[river glen]

and balance them

[fossil finch]

i would rate it: why

[earnest cape]

new classes are high effort so it's an instant no

and they've stated before in somewhere they likely won't make any mroe classes since making rogue already took a big toll on them

don't quite remember where this somewhere is but it's been said before

[cobalt pewter]

I would rate it "rogue exists"

Also yes new classes are no no

[fading silo]

Also new recipes

[fringe timber]

Also, it's very hard to find something very unique

[hot zephyr]

There's also the fact that debuffs in their current state are difficult to balance, much less a class focused on using them

[pine star]

@severe inlet you need reasoning

[crystal iron]

ok specific

[fossil finch]

and a reallyyyyyy good one

no it isn't specific

[severe inlet]

I accident sent early

I tried to go line down

And clicked enter

[fossil finch]

you will need a really good reasoning there, iirc fabsol doesn't want wings any earlier than post skeletron, and well, skyline
yeah

[crude geode]

Future content is a no no.

Also skyline exists

[severe inlet]

oh ye

air ore

[crystal iron]

13.37 chance is kind of unnecesary tho, unless its the default drop rate for wueen bee stuff

if so then this is abit embarassing

[severe inlet]

well

it would be

no wait it would be like 22%

[cobalt pewter]

ahem seems like someone knows a thing or two about debuff class

[hot zephyr]

👀

[crude geode]

Repost time

[fossil finch]

true

[pine star]

Gravistar Sabaton, the one good Calamity expert acc

[cobalt pewter]

?

Pardon?

[pine star]

At the very end of Cursed Being's sugg

"and be more like Gravistar Sabaton"

[crude geode]

Gravistar Sabaton is shit balance wise, but it has one of the best concepts

[cobalt pewter]

Ah

[fading silo]

Can agree

Also stem cells or Dragonfolly’s item is good, but could be better/more fleshed out.

And ocean crest is just broken

Fungal clump should do more damage when combined with amalgamated brain or whatever it’s called.

I’ve never made it so idr if it actually spawns

[grim tusk]

amalgam says hi

[hot zephyr]

Devil's advocate says that non-stat boosts are really difficult to effectively balance; see: Shield of Cthulhu

[grim tusk]

SoC is nerfed next update

[fair radish]

Really? 👀

How it getting nerfed

[fossil finch]

check changelogs

[crude geode]

don’t see anything in changelogs tbfh, may just be blind

[hot zephyr]

Same here

Other than CS becoming a rare variant

[crude geode]

Yeah

[fading silo]

I hate the mech boss change tbh.

[crude geode]

#calamity-update-talk prolly go there

[grim tusk]

Reduced amount of iframes to make it consistent with the other rams and to not grant as much invulnerability

[fading silo]

I was just saying. Not going to go into detail.

[fair radish]

How many frames does it give atm?

[frail mantle]

I think it was, like, 2/3 of a second

[fair radish]

Clears throat why

Why Terraria devs

[earnest cape]

2/3 second for the enemy you bonked

you can still get hit by everything else as normal

was just a tad bit too long but it's understandable why it exists

anyway off topic

[fair radish]

So when you bonked an enemy it gave the enemy 40 iframes?

I’m confused

[fossil finch]

yes

[fair radish]

That’s still a why

Why 40 iframes

For the enemy

[fossil finch]

because you'd expect a bonk to give you iframes so you don't get hurt just after that?

it's too long yes but it's not that broken

it's also easy to pass up in testing anything with the item, really

[fair radish]

Huh

40 frames is still a lot

[grim tusk]

40 frames is indeed too much

[fair radish]

That essentially means for 2/3s of a second the enemy is legitimately unable to hit you

Which is noticeable when I play sometimes

I’ll bash an enemy

And I’ll just phase through them

As a Smash player

40 frames is too long

[hollow shell]

SoC can act as a Souls-like dodgeroll if you land it yeah

Or I guess it would be more like a parry considering you're attacking them

[grim tusk]

Not even that has that much invul

[hollow shell]

but uh yeah a lot of Cal's expert items are boring as hell and I've had ideas for reworking them rattling around for the past 3 years

[earnest cape]

3 years

damn

[hollow shell]

"I've been in business a long time, boy"

[shadow knoll]

my suggs is this close to being accepted.

I know it won't go in the mod, but still, very exciting.

[grim tusk]

hmm i've been about this but maybe having a building speed boost would be nice. Building is just painfully slow specially considering the big scale arenas you have to use for later bosses

like a building boost by default

[hollow shell]

In a similar sense to us having the config for mining speed boost?

That seems fine

(We could even tie the two to each other, though people would prolly like the ability to have one and not the other)

[crude geode]

Building has been mentioned a lot tbh, and it’s kinda surprising Calamity doesn’t any accessories for it, considering there’s a ton of mining boosts.

[vital condor]

#suggestions-voting message star requirement met

#suggestions-voting message and this one

#suggestions-voting message aaand this

[hollow shell]

aight

[vital condor]

#suggestions-voting message and this

#suggestions-voting message and this is as far as I'm going xD

[hollow shell]

All delivered, thank you 👍

[grim tusk]

another thing that i was wondering maybe something to improve herb gathering/gardening
it would make it not as slow, specific, and random

This could maybe sound to ambitious but maybe adding something that increases the drop rates even more, forces them to bloom if fully grown (not waiting for full moon for deathweed for instance), a use for the seeds other than well planting (for some fertilizers of sorts, possibly even some sort of Minecraft bone meal (perhaps make it require blood orbs cuz that may overpowered))

it would help to tackle the potion issue in some other ways, rather than grinding the elusive blood orbs, stuffed fish or money to buy them

[sleek turret]

gardening needs something that isn't waiting it to;
Rain (ofc post-Skeletron Abyss Torrential Tear)
Specific moon phase/event (only Blood Moon can be manually activated on Calamity but that's post-Brimmy)
Waiting (shiverthorn sucks)

[grim tusk]

rng (blinkroot)

[sleek turret]

and ofc, there are Stuffed Fishes

[grim tusk]

rng too

[sleek turret]

which are lesser seedbags with more rng and drop pool

[grim tusk]

why the fuck do they allow pre-boss pumpler

[vital condor]

...same reason pre-boss minishark exists

[grim tusk]

pumpler is WAY stronger than minishark

it also procs luxor's gift unlike shark

[sleek turret]

Comedic Right Click deletes swarms of enemies

[grim tusk]

left click shreds bosses faster than other ranged options available

[sleek turret]

and quite possibly Flash Rounds

[vital condor]

...it has a base of 15 damage 6 times a second, compared to 13 damage 7.5 times a second

I don't understand how pumpler is that much stronger

[crude geode]

Blood Orbs completely negate herbs, as well as potions being sold next update.