suggestions-discussion

[dapper coral]

A death at 1% is rare, but it does happen more often than you'd think, and
wipe this line, to start

[tranquil perch]

Alr

[tawny garden]

tbh I don't think the fight is like

full of cheap hits

[marble hazel]

Of course it isnt

But yanno the possibility of getting trolled is pretty scary

[languid quartz]

agreed philo

[dapper coral]

no one said it was full of cheap hits

but there are a few situations where you might get hit by attacks of questionable fairness, especially if you're new and you're not quite aware of how the boss works yet

[marble hazel]

The point i think was to fully neutralize the possibility of being trolled rather than leave a small chance

[dapper coral]

^

[tawny garden]

ah

[tranquil perch]

When exiting a bullet hell, she often goes into the hellblast mode, and shoots them in an awkward position, which causes the bullets to cross the screen in a fraction of a second, which you cannot react to. Bullets A potential solution would be making her unable to shoot projectiles for half a second when exiting a bullet hell.Deaths at 1% due to a stray projectile are also infamous, making all of her projectiles fade out when at 1%, instead of only the brimstone monsters would solve this issue.

how is this

[dapper coral]

sounds gud

[marble hazel]

Seems good

[tawny garden]

the word Bullets is weird there

[dapper coral]

you have a stray Bullets in the middle but other than that it's fine

[tawny garden]

byeah

[tranquil perch]

Edited then

[dapper coral]

coolio

[tranquil perch]

I also fixed the Bullets

[cobalt pewter]

!wiki Desert Prowler armor

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.fandom.com/wiki/Desert_Prowler_armor

[cobalt pewter]

Dis be a decent example ig

It gives flat dmg (but probably not enough because it's balanced with funny Minishark in mind)

[sleek turret]

funny minishark + flash rounds early game combo with that armor

[magic verge]

Well funny minishark is a very specific case

hardly an example

[cobalt pewter]

That case is probably the most common for ranged play

[robust lava]

Minishark isn't an example it's a counterpoint

[cobalt pewter]

Aside from Pumpler

In any case

[magic verge]

thats what i tried to say, that its hardly a counterpoint when its a very specific case

[cobalt pewter]

High firerate stuff might fuck up with flat dmg bonuses

Like Belladonna and Minishark

[magic verge]

the list of weapons relying on low hitrate to compensate their damage is p small

you would just need to take in to account those 2 or 3 weapons on the whole game

to make a substantial improve to the other 40 early game weapons

[analog talon]

p90 with a flat damage boost

[magic verge]

thats already a thing, its called shark necklace, and it gives a whopping 5 arpen

[analog talon]

meta gonna become throwing on early game ranger armor for a small boost to your p90 to get some extra damage against pbg

[magic verge]

plus p90 is getting reworked to not being funny

[sleek turret]

yeah

so no meta plan

[analog talon]

no more funni bullet hose

p90 with mortar rounds is

iirc mortar rounds have 60 base damage, so 69 damage for p90

[brazen pier]

DID I HEAR THE FUNNY NUMBER?

[ashen warren]

funny belladona

[sand umbra]

flat damage bonuses earlygame are the most broken thing

[frail mantle]

funny any weapon with many bullet low damage

[sand umbra]

like
before Desert Prowler got changed to no longer boost ammo damage, Desert Prowler + Minishark (bullet type mattered none) was highkey kinda broken

[pine star]

Yeah

[sand umbra]

relevant

excerpt from a conversation I had with other people in this channel at the time

[pine star]

Do you play Slay the Spire?
Because I have a really good analogy for why this is broken

[sand umbra]

no

[pine star]

oh

[sand umbra]

but tl;dr flat damage bonuses are generally not the greatest idea because they buff the fuck out of stuff that has high fire rate/lots of projectiles but low base damage

[pine star]

^^^^^^

[sand umbra]

meanwhile, all the slow weapons, which are generally also the more interesting ones, get basically nothing out of it

[pine star]

yeah\

Would it be possible to make an armor set that gives percentage bonuses to fast weapons, and REALLY BIG flat bonuses to slow weapons?

[sand umbra]

yes

[radiant meadow]

That sounds like

a disaster waiting to happen

[sand umbra]

I don't think that's practical because that's just a percentage bonus with extra steps

[radiant meadow]

cough The Bee cough

[sand umbra]

but it is possible

[pine star]

oh

Interesting

[hollow shell]

I was also going to mention The Bee

[sand umbra]

p. sure Bee was a percentage bonus

[frail mantle]

yes

it was

[radiant meadow]

it still was based off of use speed

[hollow shell]

The point being that yeah

use speed accounting into damage

[sand umbra]

ah, I see

[hollow shell]

Which creates the inverse problem

Of buffing the fuck out of slow weapons

[sand umbra]

while fast weapons get left in the dust

[pine star]

who cares about fast weapons

[sand umbra]

lesser of two evils imo because slow weapons generally end up more interesting than fast ones. there's a reason I don't like the Megashark upgrade line

[frail mantle]

snipers good

i agree

[pine star]

Same

[sand umbra]

in short, flat bonuses are a recipe for a balancing disaster and Desert Prowler's original incarnation is semi-living proof of that

[pine star]

Semi-living?

[frail mantle]

i'd rather oneshot enemies slowly than bullet hose them to death quickly

[pine star]

cripple moab sniper vs elite defender sniper

[ancient mirage]

just have both with cripple moab set to strong and elite defender set to first

[sand umbra]

cripple moab sniper vs elite defender sniper
the difference is that Cripple MOAB and Elite Defender are both viable and widely used, for different reasons

in Terraria, at least in a modded context, nobody uses slow weapons, because why use the slow weapon that requires at least one brain cell to utilize when the fast hitscan weapon with 20 projectiles per tick is sitting right there and takes -2 IQ to use

[pine star]

I'm aware

[sand umbra]

I really wish this wasn't the case but it is

[pine star]

I was just thinking of slow attack speed vs fast attack speed

[frail mantle]

because the slow weapons make me feel like i'm smart when i do epic midair oneshot enemy kill

[sand umbra]

that's pretty pog, yeah

[pine star]

Here's an idea for how to make fast weapons use brain:
Inaccuracy

[hollow shell]

Chloro

[sand umbra]

byeah inaccuracy is a meme mechanic

because Chlorophyte Bullets fucking invalidate all forms of it

[pine star]

I meant UNCHEESEABLE inaccuracy

But yeah, fuck chloro bullets

[sand umbra]

(that and inaccuracy isn't the most intelligence-requiring mechanic in and of itself)

(so even if Chloro Bullets didn't exist I'd still shoot down your point because there are better ways to make a weapon require any amount of brainpower to use)

[pine star]

oh

[frail mantle]

while i do enjoy overwhelming enemies with sheer projectile amount from time to time with things like p90 or funny knife time stop man weapon, generally i much prefer the slow, hard-hitting weapons

especially when it's a slow, hard hitting javelin

[sand umbra]

Stellar Knife is fun to me because it's not an immediate attack

[frail mantle]

i just find javelins more fun than all the other rogue subclasses for some reason

[sand umbra]

you actually need to think about where you're throwing your knives

and it opens up a decent few different types of strategy for using it because of how it works

it's why Stellar Knife is one of my favorite rogue weapons despite its fantastical speed

there is a much higher skill ceiling for it than for any other rogue weapon of its speed caliber

[frail mantle]

literally doing the Dio knife throw thing vs Siren by throwing out a shitton of them before killing the ??? and watching them all attack at once is fun

[sand umbra]

[pine star]

That's one way to describe it

[fossil finch]

just make all weapons require brainpower by reworking attack system
ez

[grim tusk]

I enjoy them as long as they dont oneshot stuff vehemence

But yea aiming should feel rewarding and indeed do more damage

Brainded instant homing weapon spam is pretty dumb

[fossil finch]

1.5 Supernova:

[frail mantle]

if vehemence had something like a chargeup before shooting during which you weren't able to turn around, forcing you to predict where your enemies are going and aim accordingly, i'd probably like it more

[fossil finch]

getting reworked anyways

[frail mantle]

but right now it's just a hitscan oneshot weapon and is being reworked anyway to not be oneshot

[grim tusk]

[grim tusk]

Iirc its homing would accerate overtime, after a few seconds it’ll hit rather than instant such as chlorophyte

It’ll prob be like if stellar knives and wave pounder had a child

[unkempt heath]

Imagine aiming

Message Sponsored by Homing Gang

[grim tusk]

Imagine taking longer to kill a boss and not develop better reflexes

This post was made by aiming gang

[tawny garden]

Homing is for brainless people

aka me

[unkempt heath]

Homing + Stealth Strikes let's fucking go

[magic verge]

@sand umbra we just talked about it would be necesary to just take in to account for those weapons

that have really fast projectiles

you take in to account those 3 or 4 weapons, then you benefit the other 50 early game weapons that usually deal more than 5 damage to enemies

no need to overexplain it, but only early prehm weapons suffer from this inconvenience, it wouldnt be either a bother to fix that

i dont know why at least 5 people here are like "boom, minishark and belladona exists, suggestion not a great idea"

ill add it to the post anyways for future debate

[sand umbra]

okay so

• Belladonna wasn't even my example
• Minishark is the easiest way for me to explain why flat damage increases are incredibly powerful: they innately favor fast or projectile-heavy weaponry, which in Calamity also conveniently happens to include some of the best options you can take for any situation. further early-game examples of these kinds of weapons (i.e. those which could overbenefit from flat bonuses due to their fundamental function) include Mandible/Mycelial Claws, Mycoroot, Sky Glaze, Plasma Rod, Stormjaw Staff, Sparkling Empress, Hyphae Rod, Mana Rose, etc.
• making exceptions for fast weapons or slow weapons to receive lower or higher flat bonuses respectively turns it into percentage bonuses with like 10 extra unnecessary steps, which (as a mod developer who tests, re-tests, and re-re-tests every weapon he makes) seems like nothing but a balance headache waiting to happen

[magic verge]

• making exceptions for fast weapons or slow weapons to receive lower or higher flat bonuses respectively turns it into percentage bonuses with like 10 extra unnecessary steps,
  what, why? how? this straight doesnt make any sense
  it would be as easy as: is the weapon high hit based? yes -> set the flat weapon bonus to a lower degree
  i dont even know why would you say that its just like percentage bonuses, percentage bonuses dont provide damage to any kind of weapon, thats the issue im displaying, and thats the issue im trying to solve with this, this is nowhere similar to what you just said, let alone the "10 extra steps" part

[hollow shell]

The point is that percentage damage bonuses provide a greater bonus to slower high damage weapons than they do to faster low damage weapons

So making a new system which tries to do exactly that is comparable to percentage damage bonuses

[sleek turret]

Same with modifiers too Rover.

[hollow shell]

(modifiers are percentage damage bonuses)

[magic verge]

except the point doesnt apply to early game armor, thats the whole point of the suggestion

[sleek turret]

yeah, but they have some preferences too.

[magic verge]

that because your weapon damage is 1 to 20, the damage bonuses are virtually nothing

[hollow shell]

Indeed

And what weapons tend to have very low base damage?

[magic verge]

high fire rate ones?

[hollow shell]

Indeed

[magic verge]

whats your point with that?

[hollow shell]

So
flat damage bonuses disproportionately benefit fast damage weapons

hence the issue

[magic verge]

the issue is nonexistent when you just take in to account fast using weapons, i stated that at least 4 times by now, and even included it in the suggestion. its that melee wepon fast based? increase the flat damage by 1 like desert prowler armor instead of 3.

even a flat damage increase by one is going to be much better than the current system

[hollow shell]

But percentage-based boosts already have the lesser boosting of low-damage weapons built into them

[pine star]

However, it is nigh impossible to make the balance between the slow weapons and fast weapons perfect

[magic verge]

... why would it be impossible to make a check of "is using x weapon, then increase by 1 instead of 3" ?

[hollow shell]

It's not the implementation that's impossible
it's the balancing

[magic verge]

yeah, it does the same, except it doesnt, because it doesnt increase the damage by 1 in every single other weapon

[pine star]

That would require A LOT OF ifs

And I mean a LOT of if statements

[magic verge]

the problem displayed is that even with a damage of 20, a supposed high damage based weapon, a 3% damage increase is still going to increase the damage output by one

[ashen warren]

only like 3 thousand

and what would the armor description even look like

[pine star]

there's an option to not reply ping

[hollow shell]

And would result in specific conditional balancing which is not ideal, because it's confusing to the in-game player
They see that their armor grants +3 flat damage
"Oh cool! I'll use that with this really fast low-damage weapon and get a big boost!"
Then they go to use it and find that it doesn't work, and nowhere is that stated

Unless we want a really clunky in-game list of all the exception cases

[magic verge]

bro,
"increases magic damage by +3"
"if the weapon shoots fast it increases it by +1"

[hollow shell]

Okay but there is not a distinct line between what is a fast weapon and what is a normal weapon

[ashen warren]

also there'll still be a major difference between P90 and minishark

[hollow shell]

Is Space Gun a "fast" weapon? What about Hyphae Rod with its slow speed but multiple projectiles?

[pine star]

How do you define "shoots fast"?
What about Boomstick and other multiple projectile weapons

[magic verge]

"increases magic damage by +3"
"if the weapon hits fast increases it by +1"
this is literally just prioritising semantics to a useless feature at this point

[wooden wedge]

the things that are fast is usually just their usetime stat

[hollow shell]

Indeed, we could make it be based on usetime
but again, multiple projectiles kinda mess things up

[wooden wedge]

or, usetime is the thing that determines fast

[magic verge]

"people will not fully know if its going to be affected by the armor" it literally doesnt matter because the setbonus will give higher damage than the current system you understand it or not

it will just be better even if you just are oblivious if the current weapon is being affected by

what i consider a very flawed system is to have a 1+ damage increase on a base 4 damage weapon and also a 1+ damage increase on a 20 base damage weapon

and with this change, its being adressed, even if its at the expense of "but some people wont know what weapons are being affected"

[hollow shell]

Okay

I understand

[pine star]

But "some people won't know what weapons are being affected" is being a jerk to those people

[magic verge]

what no, they just wont fully know the full extent of the setbonus, they will just notice a increase

how much increase? check the wiki

the same way you check the wiki to see how much the omega blue buff damage gives because its not specifically stated in game

or, multiude of other things

[pine star]

I guess that is true

But the Abyssal Madness should be stated in game

[magic verge]

the same way for example, luxors gift doesnt affect certain weapons because it would otherwise be too broken

its the exact same scenario

[hollow shell]

Hmmm, Luxor's...

[magic verge]

i can see the damage situation of early game being fixed partially by the rework they are doing with some armors, like the ore ones allegedly, supposedly

but i just want the others to be fixed too

[sand umbra]

...I left to take a bath and apparently missed a complete set of points against my explanation

okay

[pine star]

oh

How was your shower?

[atomic quest]

wet

[sand umbra]

alright. what did I miss. what explaining do I have to do

[hollow shell]

Prolly best to read it yourself

[magic verge]

lets make this simple to keep the chat clean

im just going to resume it and you just say what do you think

setbonus applies a +5 flat damage for the respective damage type of the armor
if the weapon is a hit fast weapon, then the flat damage gets reduced to a +1 flat damage increase
this has been done similarly before with luxors gift
even thought the player doesnt exactly know what categorises as a fast weapon, it still solves the problem its aiming to solve, which is that a base 4 damage weapon gets a +1 damage increase from early prehm armor, and a 20 damage weapon gets a +1 damage increase

[sand umbra]

...when you put it that way, I feel like there's a much easier solution to this problem

and that is to ask for the damage modifiers early-game to be increased significantly so that slower stuff actually gets a notable increase

now, I don't think a suggestion like that would get very far, because it insinuates even more grand-scale rebalancing work on top of the amount already slated to be in 1.5

[hollow shell]

Hrm

[magic verge]

how would be marking every single weapon that needs a percentage buff to make a check and apply it, rather than: its fast? yes-> +1

[hollow shell]

Okay, the real solution is to convert all stats into floats instead of integers

[magic verge]

i think that you are not making any sense with what you said

also, no, i dont think it would take grand balancing work. as i said: its fast hit? yes - > mark it for +1 damage instead

[hollow shell]

(me or tommy boy?
Cuz I think what I just said is pretty legit)

[magic verge]

how would that be big rebalancing?

no, thomas

[sand umbra]

...I want to scream

most damage-boosting equipment gives a percentage-based bonus

suggest that that percentage-based bonus be increased, which in turn causes slower/higher base damage stuff to receive more of a bonus while keeping fast/lower base damage weapons more or less as they are currently

I physically cannot make this any simpler than it already is. please

[hollow shell]

But that eventually goes away, like at the end of PreHM?

[magic verge]

well, yeah, sure , it would be better, but it will also be ten times more complicated to make and balance, i dont even know why you even described it as a "easier solution" when its a much, much more convoluted solution

[hollow shell]

Nah nah Thomas is not saying to apply this to the armor thing you're talking about

He's coming up with his own thing

[sand umbra]

this isn't even my own thing this is literally just saying to increase the % buffs from armor

the ones that already exist

[hollow shell]

🤔

Okay

[magic verge]

yeah, except you would need to increase it to 20% more damage

to make it matter to that 20 base damage weapon

[hollow shell]

(when you said "damage modifiers" earlier I thought you meant reforges)

[magic verge]

and it would be busted

thats precisely why i suggested to use flat numbers

so you dont have to rise the percentage to 20

[pine star]

What Thomas is doing is buffing slow weapons
What you are doing is nerfing fast weapons

[sand umbra]

I'm going to lose my mind

[pine star]

Also is ViralMelon's sugg fine

[sand umbra]

percentages are not this fucking complicated

yes I like Melon's sugg let's talk about it more before I start yelling marginally louder than usual

true eyes suck

[hollow shell]

Why is raising the percentage to 20% more complicated than implementing your exception-based flat damage system?

[magic verge]

its not more complicated

its more problematic

because once you get 50 damage, it gets busted

[pine star]

Marginally louder?

[hollow shell]

Yeah but it's an early-game armor

[magic verge]

except you need to go trough every single weapon check to make sure its buffing it in a balanced way, instead of just saying: it fast weapon? yes? okay, +1 damage

[hollow shell]

You'd need to wear a shitty armor set with good damage
i.e. Glass cannon

to get the most out of it with higher damage weapons

[mighty knot]

plot twist: I only made that suggestion to interrupt this unending percentages conversation
and it didn't even work

[sand umbra]

I want it to be interrupted please this is actually getting me frustrated

[pine star]

However, things that are more intuitive to humans are less "intuitive" to computers

[hollow shell]

Isn't this True Eye sugg already a thing?

Oh
I see what you mean

[magic verge]

what are you trying to mean with this

[pine star]

THANK YOU

Anyways

ViralMelon sugg pog

[hollow shell]

The title could be a bit clearer because I thought you were suggesting that "In Revengeanace or higher, the True Eyes of Cthulhu behave differently, sticking closer together and always having their attacks synced such that they all do the same attack at the same time." this become a thing

I suppose "unique" is the key word I shoulda taken into account

[sand umbra]

honestly something like this true eye sugg probably is already a thing but who cares
I want to talk about why true eyes are garbage instead of having to have a half hour discussion explaining second-grade mathematics and how they apply to making the balancing of the start of the game marginally better

[magic verge]

thomas, you may have the very cool tag, but you are the opposite of cool not maintaining a civilized conversation without being exalted on a channel about discussion

if you dont want to "get mad" just, stop talking.

[pine star]

You placed the sugg
So the burden of proof is on you

[hollow shell]

(You're equally at fault, you know)

[pine star]

Why am I using debate terms at this point

[novel belfry]

what the hell just happened here

[hollow shell]

Pissing contest

[magic verge]

what are you even saying with this, im not loosing my cool, or being mad at anyone, im just here to discuss my suggestion man

[novel belfry]

p̷̈͝i̸̔͒s̷͖̄s̵̍͆

[pine star]

Do not ask

[mighty knot]

it is very accurate tho

[novel belfry]

drvcx sugg is pretty good
viral melon sugg also good
(subjectively)

[magic verge]

if anyone has a better idea on solving the problem the current game has about early prehm armor, by all means, please, post it in the suggestions posting channel, however, dont just say "my formulae is better than yours and im done talking"

we are here to make the mod, and the game better.

[pine star]

The latter is objectively good

[novel belfry]

the former ya'll argued a lot

for some reason

[pine star]

It's because of really fast weapons, and how drvcx's workaround for the fast weapons is not great, to say the least

There's a reason Desert Prowler got nerfed

[novel belfry]

oh

[magic verge]

but it got nerfed to a now good state, right?

[novel belfry]

i forgot about those ones

[magic verge]

or is it still bad and problematic?

[mighty knot]

I thought we stopped talking about this?

[pine star]

so did i

[novel belfry]

honestly I'd say it's the only solution if the devs ever go ahead with this suggestion

[magic verge]

the good, definitive solution would of course rework every single prehm armor so they provide substantial damage increase no matter the weapon they use

like the newer set bonuses

but of course, thats not for a single suggestion

[novel belfry]

nah it works as a singular suggestion

[sand umbra]

...alright. I'm trying really hard to not blow a gasket here, so lemme explain this one final time as simply and effectively as I can.

If you have a 10% damage bonus applied to two weapons, one with 4 base damage and one with 20 base damage, the 4 base damage weapon receives no bonus even with rounding while the 20 base damage weapon receives +2 base damage. If you double that percentage bonus to 20%, the 4 base damage weapon still receives no bonus unless you round the result upwards, whereas the 20 base damage weapon receives a +4 base damage.
Notice how fast weapons get much less than slow weapons innately despite no exceptions being implemented. This is how percentage bonuses work. Now, since most early-game armors give pitiful-at-best damage bonuses, my recommendation would be to increase the damage % bonuses that these armors give to be larger, which would innately buff slow/high base damage weapons while keeping fast/low base damage weapons perfectly intact balancing wise, as well as seeming much more impressive to people starting out the game.

I am not going to explain this further or a second time. I am instead going to walk calmly away from this conversation while I can keep a level head, and the lot of you will instead move on to complain about True Eyes to the extent that I would in my absence. Thank you, and good night. 🛫

[pine star]

See ya soon Thomas

[edgy sundial]

+X% damage. +Y% additional damage if base damage below Z.

[pine star]

so just melding the two ideas, i see?

[edgy sundial]

literally a cutoff so you're only giving damage bonuses to weapons that need the extra to get past rounding

[pine star]

My previous statement was one of good faith

[magic verge]

i thought we already talked about how making a 20%+ increase in magic damage wulfrum armor would be what i would guess not the ideal state of being, since wizard hat gave 15% and was the defacto glass cannon solution. do you want to give that flatline to every single prehm armor?

[pine star]

YES

Because of the low base damage of early weapons

Also we should just stop

Let the sugg go into voting

[magic verge]

well, its surely an alterantive, but im unaware to the interactions it would make with the rest of the game

no, ill just make another suggestion with this variation

[pine star]

The last thing I will say is that you said "whooping" when you meant "whopping"

I'm out

[novel belfry]

i guess increase the damage increase the wizard hat gives to, 25%?

[sleek turret]

Its actually 15%

[magic verge]

thats why i said its 15%

[safe oasis]

and then people will use pre boss armor up to moon lord for damage

[sleek turret]

glass cannon like always

[magic verge]

this might surprise you

but moon lord level armor already increases your weapon damage by 20+%

you would just be getting the same damage, but with virtually zero defense, and without any possible setbonus you could have

[safe oasis]

yeah that was an exaggeration
the point was pre boss armor would give you more bonuses than later stage armor
which makes absolutely no sense

[magic verge]

no, it wouldnt

[edgy sundial]

it would upset early balance around where they cut off the changes

[sleek turret]

there's only 1 pre-boss armor set that can rival nebula armor stats without the boosters.

[magic verge]

for comparation, adamantite armor gives 22% damage

and thats just the damage increase

[sleek turret]

wizard hat, gypsy robe and meteor leggins.

[magic verge]

not even counting the setbonus, critical and defense stats

[edgy sundial]

right, so if wulfrum gives 20% bonus so it's not useless, and the latter half of prehm armors do not because their bonus is reasonable for the weapon tier, do you think that would be a good thing?

[safe oasis]

side note: do we really need three suggestions in #suggestions-posting talking about the exact same problem

[magic verge]

well, why not?

the point here is to fix a problem

[safe oasis]

because it pushes other suggestions up?

[sleek turret]

uhh

[magic verge]

why would you not want different approaches to a problem exactly?

[edgy sundial]

i was typing mine before !drvcx; wanted to make sure i worded it correctly before smashing enter

[safe oasis]

settle on one and suggest that

[sleek turret]

isn't it a bad suggestion example to do that?

because its listed on the doc.

[magic verge]

the three of them are very different

[safe oasis]

suggestions referencing other suggestions yeah

[magic verge]

i didnt referenced my previous suggestion if youre talking about mine

as i said, the three suggestions take totally different approaches to the problem

they arent similar at all besides the point that they want to solve the same problem

[safe oasis]

or you could just not be specific and say “fix this problem”

with reasoning as to why

[magic verge]

wha

[safe oasis]

instead of telling them how

[magic verge]

thats not how a suggestion works

[safe oasis]

since a specific sugg is also a don’t

[magic verge]

you need to suggest how you want to make the change

pretty sure its a requeriment

you cant just say "fix this lmao"

[edgy sundial]

a specific sugg would be "increase this armor's value by X amount"

a non-specific sugg would be "this armor's value is too low and should be increased"

[safe oasis]

you could say like
“fix early game armor” or whatever
reasoning: (reasoning)
some ways of doing this could be but are not limited to: making it increase flat damage, making them give higher bonuses to lower damage weapons, or raising percent values in general

bam suggestion bloat reduced by like 3 messages

[magic verge]

as i said, all the choices you made are very different and polarising

[edgy sundial]

ya know, that's a good idea, you should make a suggestion like that

[magic verge]

someone can be on board for flat numbers, but totally not for percentages

then, how would you tell whats the popular choice?

[safe oasis]

that’s up for the devs

as it should be

they decide how they want to do it

[magic verge]

that kinda defies the point of the popularity choices in suggestions

[safe oasis]

if at all

[magic verge]

of course its up to the devs, but the people decide which one arrives at them

[safe oasis]

the star isn’t for “do you want this, this, or this”
it’s for “do you like this idea”

[magic verge]

the star is for marking the popularity of the idea

[edgy sundial]

what if i don't like the idea because it's too broad and lacks focus?

[safe oasis]

then don’t star it

[edgy sundial]

and what if i like an idea because it is well-defined with a clear focus?

[safe oasis]

that’s not measuring the suggestion at that point that’s just measuring the writing skills of the suggestor

[magic verge]

what

how does your writing skills have anything to do with the fact that your idea includes three very different choices

that impact the game all very differently

[safe oasis]

i’m talking about what burgerman is saying

[magic verge]

i think we are talking about the same thing

[edgy sundial]

what a coincidence, i'm talking about what you're saying psychic

i was hoping to lead into "well just don't star the suggs if they get to voting" but i guess i don't get to insert it quite as smoothly as i wanted

[safe oasis]

you can continue your point

[edgy sundial]

no, no, my point is if you don't like the suggs don't star them. there's nothing wrong with them, and if there is, they'll get exclaimed

i'm at my point

[safe oasis]

yeah but then 3 suggestions saying the same thing push all other suggestions up for next to no reason

why would you star essentially the same thing 3 times

[magic verge]

except they dont say the same thing

[edgy sundial]

well you see, they go about the solution very differently

[magic verge]

as i said, the only correlation is that they try to solve the same problem

[safe oasis]

also, if the stars are split so much, that’s just lowering the chances they even get to the devs

and then the whole problem is ignored

[edgy sundial]

it would be different if they were all just "fix early damage bonuses, idk how lol", but they're not

[safe oasis]

this is an inefficient way of doing it as a whole

[edgy sundial]

are you aware you can vote on more than one suggestion?

[safe oasis]

yes

[magic verge]

man, you literally said earlier

the star isn’t for “do you want this, this, or this”

[safe oasis]

and are you aware that suggestions push other suggestions up

[safe oasis]

that is indeed what i said

[magic verge]

if you bring awareness to the dev team, im sure they will be aware of the problem

if they are not already aware

[safe oasis]

why bring that quote up though it directly contradicts you

[magic verge]

because it doesnt

also, we are not talking about suggestions anymore at this point

i dont want to talk about stars or votes here

do you want to talk about my suggestion?

[safe oasis]

already brought up my complaints
it’s clear this discussion is just going in circles now so i’ll stop

[ashen warren]

Isn’t Yharon sprite update already coming

[unreal viper]

^

And sugg sprites are kinda illegal

due to effort

actua;ly, nah, but they are resaticted

[pine star]

It's very hard to get a sprite sugg approved

[pine inlet]

K

[hollow shell]

Ah, the suggestion has been split?

I'm kind of an hour late I guess

Wait there's a whole three suggestions about this now?

That's kind of... overkill

This is definitely going to cause a Spoiler Effect, none of these are gonna reach the dev server 😔

[crude geode]

My prediction is none of them are going to make it to dev as is

Yeah

[pine star]

yeah

[fossil finch]

They buried eye sugg

[crude geode]

@magic verge @edgy sundial see above.

[marble hazel]

😔

[magic verge]

i will be just contempt with the fact that three suggestions over a problem will reach better awareness to the dev team than one

even if said unified suggestion reached one hundred votes, it still wouldnt be guaranteed to be implemented

[hollow shell]

(you mean "content")

[magic verge]

so im satisfied with just raising awareness, i dont intend them to fix it with one suggestion

yes, i probably mean that

[hollow shell]

contempt is a very negative hatred :P

[magic verge]

language is hard

[hollow shell]

Indeed

But uhh

[safe oasis]

this doesn't really work when 2 of the suggestions are by the same person and the only one from a different person was posted literally 5 minutes after the previous one

[hollow shell]

The problem with having multiple suggestions about the same topic, all of which never reach the dev server

is that the devs never officially see any of them

[marble hazel]

but you're a dev 🤠

[magic verge]

checkmate

[hollow shell]

Whereas if you have one which does reach the dev server
The devs see it
even if it's not encompassing all possible solutions

[magic verge]

so, the suggestion gets automatically voided if it doesnt reach the star threshold?

is that the implication?

voided as in, never reach the devs

[hollow shell]

Do you know how the star system works?

[magic verge]

well, i knew at one point how it worked

but it has been reworked, a few times

[hollow shell]

It shouldn't be too different from what you remember

[magic verge]

if it gets to 100, it gets marked

[hollow shell]

200 now

[magic verge]

if it gets marked again in another suggestion

[hollow shell]

expansion.

[marble hazel]

for mod suggestions its 200 now

quite a high standard to prevent clutter

[hollow shell]

Sugg reaches 200 stars
Gets delivered to a special channel in the dev server, where the devs then officially vote on it
And the result of that vote is applied to the sugg here

If you post 3 very similar suggestions
People are going to divide their star votes, only applying them to the one they most agree with

And causing the possibility that none will get shown in the dev server

[magic verge]

200 huh

[hollow shell]

Yeah
We try to keep it at about a 20% delivery rate of all suggs posted

And 200 is that number currently.

[magic verge]

@edgy sundial , do you want to merge the suggestion into a cohesive post?

its going to be a long one, though

[marble hazel]

wait isnt chain suggs not allowed too

[dapper coral]

chain suggs are when one sugg directly refers to another existing one

[edgy sundial]

not particularly; i rather like my idea since it's not just upping flat or percentage damage, but an attempt at correcting for how those approaches usually fail

[marble hazel]

well its kinda like this but w/e

[dapper coral]

which i don't think these are doing

[sleek turret]

They are considered bad suggestion practice-ses.

[dapper coral]

they're addressing the same idea, but they're not directly saying "look at this sugg" so it's fine

[magic verge]

sure, ill just merge mine then

[edgy sundial]

i started typing mine before !drvcx started typing his most recent, as far as i can tell; i just took longer to hit enter

[sleek turret]

chaining suggestions is a bad suggestion practice

checked the doc.

and uhh, its a don't too since Note 2 says it.

[pine star]

But they aren't chaining per se

[hollow shell]

This is a grey area

[sleek turret]

yeah its weird

[hollow shell]

They never say "contrary to the other suggs posted" or anything like that

[sleek turret]

yeah that.

[edgy sundial]

my understanding is that the "reference other suggestions" thing generally means that if your suggestion needs another suggestion to make sense, or if you directly reference another suggestion, then that's a bad

[crude geode]

None of them break any don’ts as far as I can tell, but it still is bad practice since none of them are gonna reach dev, because the votes are gonna be split.

[sleek turret]

True

[pine star]

yeah

[earnest cape]

@pine inlet what's your reasoning

read the pins.

[radiant meadow]

Also I don't think that's possible.

[earnest cape]

yeet sugg?

[cobalt pewter]

Also you're asking stuff on donator item

[radiant meadow]

There's a reason it's weird and you have to hold up to use the alt fire

[cobalt pewter]

(tbf it's more general bya)

[radiant meadow]

Channeled weapons literally don't work with right click

[cobalt pewter]

Terraria being an amazing game as always

[earnest cape]

in deed

[radiant meadow]

@pine inlet tldr pretty sure that suggestion is not possible by Terraria's limitations

[hollow shell]

did it need to be yeeted while we waited for clarification?

[cobalt pewter]

Wasn't ben the clarification?

[warm scarab]

does true eyes of cthulhu still do contact damage

if yes i'm suggesting to remove that shit

[distant gyro]

If you didn't notice then you should likely experience that yourself first

[earnest cape]

tried checking the wiki?

[steady wind]

Yes

[earnest cape]

and no it's been gone for a long while now iirc

[warm scarab]

thinkie

[earnest cape]

at least in rev+

[steady wind]

wdym i was doing ml earlier on rev

wait nvm

[distant gyro]

funny moment

[steady wind]

i was thinking of the eyes itself

on the hand

[warm scarab]

they deal mo contact damage

haha yes

[warm scarab]

anyone got comments on this sugg

||i may or may not implement the solar eclipse overhaul thing ||
||depends if i can find someone to help with the coding shit||

[distant gyro]

I would say that SE overhaul sounds stupid but the sky's the limit if a weather event has a progress bar

also it's way better to contract the title

there's no need to clarify what buffs the moon events because it's only buffed once, endgame buff eclipse is often called "Darksun Eclipse"

[crude geode]

Some of these solutions are asking for a lot tbh.

[distant gyro]

I would say the last one counts as a GSR sug

(I thus coin grand scale rework as GSR)

everything else has already been done to death but doesn't necessarily break any rules so there's no need to call out on it

[crude geode]

Yeah

[crude geode]

@warm scarab ^

[tawny garden]

I bet devs already know that anyway so yeah

[crude geode]

#suggestions-voting message

[warm scarab]

time to yeet another sugg

imma make the solar eclipse rework my self i guess

[tawny garden]

HamburgerBoi not reference your own mod every 3 seconds challenge

[zenith hazel]

bot's down, notified amber

[zenith hazel]

ig it's back up?

[earnest cape]

hopefully™️

[tawny garden]

Lol

Did it self-heal or smth?

[heady storm]

Has a mind of its own.

[fossil finch]

hote is dumb overall and shouldn't do that on the first place lmao

[distant gyro]

attempted comedy

[fossil finch]

for demonshade, the minion is getting a resprite to look more like the armor next update and is probably getting good(er)

[magic verge]

the demon can be disabled with the cosmic plushie or some sht like that

[fossil finch]

ye

[cobalt pewter]

Quirky

But I can see the reduced clutter thingies

[distant gyro]

byeah hote is an exception

you can't disable chlorophyte leaf crystal, stardust guardian, or insert all the <calamity summon armor adds here>

[tawny garden]

(Kinda weird to me that you can only disable the Red Devil minion with the Cosmic Pludhie)

[distant gyro]

(too many calamity summon armor adds)

[fossil finch]

hote shouldn't toggle the waifus on the first place tbh, i feel it's a bad example
It makes it boring stat stick because no one bothers to use it that way anymore

[distant gyro]

cosmic plushie thing is an easter egg

[tawny garden]

Well yes

even though the effect is in the tooltip

[distant gyro]

clearly devs have tie to demons because they like to make references around them

[fossil finch]

then almost all late game accessory setups will require you to look like the aforementioned Cryogen ripoff.
This also pretty uhhh
Pretty sure sponge isn't pretty good

[distant gyro]

"don't let the demons steal your nose"

[tawny garden]

Sponge is better than amalgam

[fossil finch]

true that

but that doesn't make it a thing people use

[tawny garden]

[fossil finch]

Perhaps. But even so, I feel like this would be trivially easy to implement. Though I will admit, I know next to nothing about programming, developing, etc., so maybe it's horrifically difficult to make a sprite not appear when you click a button. I really don't know. But it's just a suggestion.
This is all unneeded

[tawny garden]

Yeah remove that

[bitter mango]

i can delete that part then i just added it because i didn't know how to end it

[safe oasis]

sponge good wdym

[fossil finch]

i don't see much people use it

nor do i

[safe oasis]

who doesn't?

[tawny garden]

It just makes you look not confident

[distant gyro]

just cut off the 3rd part

[tawny garden]

And is unnecessary

[magic verge]

sponge is not good, thats why its getting a massive buff on the next update

[tawny garden]

I used The Sponge

[distant gyro]

attempted comedy doesn't always work on suggestions when they make it a text wall

[magic verge]

and all the on water accesories are getting permanent

[sharp prism]

[tawny garden]

Because ig I had to fill my last acc slot with smth

[distant gyro]

the best getaway is making those comments nonchalantly

[fossil finch]

i have used sponge as a filler yes

[tawny garden]

And I already used everything that is better

[cobalt pewter]

People be complaining about visuals of shadow / cadance potions all the time

[fossil finch]

imagine visuals
Just delete that one gore from the game files

[bitter mango]

i considered talking about potions too but i figured those might be a little too niche than actual equipment

[safe oasis]

i feel like the sugg could be trimmed down a ton

[distant gyro]

delete all the gores from game files for unnecessity :/

[safe oasis]

like move on to the point faster

[cobalt pewter]

Those pots have been brought up as separate suggs all the time

[distant gyro]

pot moment

[bitter mango]

i found it difficult to find a medium between overexplaining and not giving enough examples

im worried that if i trim it down itll seem like im saying something with no reasons ya know

[tawny garden]

Nah dw

[bitter mango]

alright ill see what i can do

[tawny garden]

It's already better btw

[pine star]

Seems like a good sugg

Maybe the comedy can be slightly toned down?

idk

[distant gyro]

my favorite strategy for suggestions is overwhelming the reader with one reason after another to make people inclined to be persuaded

messy but works

[tawny garden]

[pine star]

So :textwall:?

[tawny garden]

My last sugg did that iirc

Got 289

[distant gyro]

no, but no examples, no segues, no unnecessary comments

just get into your next point

and repeat until done

[tawny garden]

being a textwall doesn't correspond to not getting stars

[cobalt pewter]

Ah man

"rage rework" momentum

[distant gyro]

images do, however

best clickbait in the book

[tawny garden]

ye lol

[distant gyro]

big image is a dick move though

and 2+ images is a war crime

[tawny garden]

24 images

[velvet locust]

69 images

[tawny garden]

69 images is impossible

Afaik

25 embeds per message

[safe oasis]

embed limit is 5 or something iirc

25?

since when

[tawny garden]

I thought it was 25

Lemme check

1 rich embed

10 for a webhook

[bitter mango]

aight i edited it down a bit

[tawny garden]

[pine star]

[bitter mango]

pog

[waxen jackal]

i agree with ur suggestion some ppl play Terraria cuz u don't need an rtx-3090 but when u get 100 particles around at all time (Soul of Eternity Fargo's Mod) is a great example since you get all Terraria buffs and all summons always around you which will bring u down to a Blue screen.

[zenith hazel]

ok now sugg bot's down again

[bitter mango]

suggesting that soe is actually even obtainable in a normal playthrough

but yeah you're right, I have a couple friends with lower end pcs and they die when we play late game modded

[zenith hazel]

will notify amber again

[fossil finch]

why put soe as an example for anything when it got all the toggles so your pc does not implode

[fossil finch]

and yeah, it is obtainable in a normal playthrough, it is not hard XD

[bitter mango]

h o w

[ancient mirage]

there are post ml bosses that drop a bunch of the essences

[bitter mango]

i look at that crafting tree and I experience secondhand suffering for people that actually try to get it

[fossil finch]

you are exaggerating it too much, it is not hard at all, but anyways, offtopic #other-mod-talk for this minimo

[tawny garden]

look at [[Excelsus/Crafting tree]]

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.fandom.com/wiki/Excelsus/Crafting_tree?action=edit&redlink=1

[tawny garden]

Or uh

Shit, I meant to say Exoblade

https://calamitymod.fandom.com/wiki/Exoblade/Crafting_tree

[fossil finch]

not as big, not as "hard" tho

[zenith hazel]

sugg bot is back

[sharp prism]

[near ore]

i dont want to make a proper suggestion, but rogue stealth is so unviable

[dapper coral]

it's getting better in 1.5

new formula and stuff

so dw it's already being addressed

[near ore]

oh thank god

ive havent been keeping up with changelogs tbh

[sharp prism]

@cobalt pewter

:)

[hollow shell]

mmm
tis a big update indeed

[near ore]

if there aint a summmary video on launch idk what im meant to do

[hollow shell]

There very likely will be.

[tawny garden]

the wiki will also have a huge ass changelog

[sharp prism]

add a tl;dr at the bottom that just says "shit changed"

:)

[tawny garden]

no

[sharp prism]

sad!

[tawny garden]

@real stream too specific

[hollow shell]

Not too specific

The numbers were just example

But it does need reasoning

as there is none currently.

[tawny garden]

yeah

and a title

[safe oasis]

doesn't gaels do this

[hollow shell]

It actually does yes

Its right-click has a chance to deflect projs https://calamitymod.fandom.com/wiki/Gael's_Greatsword

[real stream]

I know and I love that feature

[mighty knot]

hmm
will the greatsword parry be effected by the reflection/dodge rework?

I actually hadn't thought about that

[hollow shell]

You going to add reasoning to your suggestion, Creeperevan?

As in, why that should be in the mod?

[real stream]

Edited

[hollow shell]

Hrm

Some edits are still required to make it fit the typical sugg format (like making the title line a sentence rather than what looks like a name) but I get what you're asking for

"Add more weapons capable of deflecting projectiles" maybe?

(And you could bring up Gael's as an example if you want)

[safe oasis]

still a tad too specific

said weapon would most likely be rarer in progression, and have a set amount of damage
this part specifically

[gilded leaf]

@real stream

does that count as an item?

[tawny garden]

eh

[gilded leaf]

because its a specific item

[hollow shell]

Mostly from the way it was worded

He could have phrased it in a way that was less SIS-like

[tawny garden]

not that specific to invalidate it

[crude geode]

@bitter mango Demonshade and it’s minion are already resprited next update.

[bitter mango]

respriting doesn't change the fact that it can't be toggled : P

[tranquil perch]

You can toggle it with cosmie plusie

[split grove]

yes it can

[tranquil perch]

[crude geode]

It does change the fact that it actually looks better with the armor set, which is part of your argument.

[bitter mango]

I use it as an example of why someone would want to toggle it, but obviously even if it objectively looks "good" someone might just not want a summoned minion for appearance purposes

[bitter mango]

lol just get an extremely difficult to acquire item that takes up your entire pet slot and still has to be out to have the effect to toggle a different visual effect, simple

[tranquil perch]

I thought you wouldnt take my statement seriously

[bitter mango]

intent doesn't translate well over text sorry

and im sure there are people that would unironically use that as a reason why it's fine

[wooden quartz]

I have stared so many wulfrum/ phm armor suggestions, please, you're supposed to wait 7 days before suggesting something that's already been suggested

[safe oasis]

that's not really a rule or anything though

[wooden quartz]

why can I not even find the 7 days thing in pins?

I swear that's were I saw it

or is it on a rules doc?

[crude geode]

iirc the location is weird

also these two were told to combine their suggestions so it didn’t flood voting/waste votes but one of them said no I like my idea

[wooden quartz]

i found this: "Feel free to repost in a weeks time if you feel timing was the issue."

[glass sentinel]

is there a reason for why the game still shows "the jungle grows restless' after mechs?

since plant is available pre mechs

[cobalt pewter]

Hardcoded shit prolly

[glass sentinel]

ah

[hollow shell]

Prolly possible to overwrite but not worth the effort

[glass sentinel]

oki

[vocal grotto]

Annoying, but not exceedingly difficult. Main problem is that it'd require IL Editing

[glass sentinel]

so yes sugg or no sugg?

[cobalt pewter]

Unlikely sugg

[glass sentinel]

damn

[tawny garden]

will prolly get stuck in approval hell

[earnest cape]

fun

[tawny garden]

you and I have wildly different definitions of "fun", I see...

[earnest cape]

i was being sarcastic :)

[glass sentinel]

no you werent

[fossil finch]

plant still spawns faster post mechs iirc

so it still makes a lil bit of sense

[analog talon]

probably because plantera is intended after mechs

[warm scarab]

lemmi tell you something

you can just open the bag with a hardcore character you just made

and get the plushie

[bitter mango]

i am aware

you could also just use cheat sheet to spawn it in

neither are legit

[tawny garden]

CLEAN POSTING

last time that happened was 6 months ago iirc

[sharp prism]

[eternal escarp]

someone is gonna feel obligated to fill this now with a completely wierd sugg

[tawny garden]

[sharp prism]

add amogus

sus

anyways back to suggs- oh wait there is none

[tawny garden]

[sharp prism]

@cobalt pewter go sugg smth smh my head

:)

move to #general-talk or smth

[cobalt pewter]

h

[tawny garden]

Stop trying to ruin the clean posting

Grr

[sharp prism]

i got my ss im am content

[sharp prism]

@tawny garden clean sugg posting gone

[analog talon]

already ruined the clean posting

[granite sphinx]

got an idea for a suggestion

[tawny garden]

m

[sharp prism]

i infact do not

[granite sphinx]

im currently trying to kill dog a couple more times cause you need cosmilite bars for a lot of stuff

the armor alone is going to necessitate 2 more kills just for that

and thats not counting accessories

[eternal escarp]

prty sure a sugg like that was asked

[analog talon]

which accessories even need Cosmilite

[granite sphinx]

let me finish

[eternal escarp]

and i made a math showing how its really not that big of a deal kekw

[analog talon]

don't they all use ASE aside from tracers

[granite sphinx]

problem with farming dog is that its fucking dog

[eternal escarp]

5 for most accesories that need cosmolight

[analog talon]

5 cosmolights!?!?!

[eternal escarp]

oh

woops

[analog talon]

so many frigid bars

[eternal escarp]

cosmilite, woopsie

[granite sphinx]

instakill head in death mode can lead to some extremely cheap deaths

[eternal escarp]

thats already changed

[granite sphinx]

ive seen it in the changelog, i know

thing is, dog is tangible the moment it spawns in, meaning it can also ram you instantly when the fight starts or the phase changes upon spawning

even if it wasnt death mode, that is still an extremely painful and cheap hit

[sharp prism]

wait really?

[eternal escarp]

yeah insta kill head is a gimmick that will be used for master mode whenever 1.4 tmod is a thing

[granite sphinx]

on that, due to how dog spawns, you can camp the tail of it in both forms when it spawns for an easy 20-30% damage on its health, easily cutting out a huge portion of the intended fight

[sharp prism]

[waxen panther]

i dont think you can hit the tail when it spawns on p2 can you?

[analog talon]

DoG takes no damage for a good bit of time after he spawns

[analog talon]

you can't

the tail is invulnerable when spawning and when exiting a portal

[eternal escarp]

#suggestions-discussion message is somewhere around the middle of the convo about how farming DoG and managing your cosmilite isnt as annoying

its not like you need every cosmilite thing

[sand umbra]

yeah DoG doesn't take or deal any damage for a few seconds after spawning (or after doing his portal warp) in order to prevent cheap hits

[eternal escarp]

and youd prolly kill dog only twice or thrice

[granite sphinx]

i can tell you right now in the 140+ deaths ive taken so far, thats not true

[eternal escarp]

(and eventually™️ theres gonna be cosmilite ore but we cant use that in this arguement obv)

[granite sphinx]

after teleporting and spawning in, dog is able to hit you

[sand umbra]

okay well I thought it was the case judging from the immense amount of research I've done but I guess it got changed

[granite sphinx]

yeah ive only killed it once and i need to kill it at least twice more

[sand umbra]

I have no idea why it would've gotten changed because there's no conceivable way that's an improvement to the fight, but I guess it did

[granite sphinx]

idk either

[sand umbra]

because I know this was a thing for the longest time

[granite sphinx]

but the point does stand, that dog can easily cheap hit you on spawning in

[eternal escarp]

well using your cosmilite correctly just makes killing DoG the second time 2x easier, especially in the current patch where the curve is pretty high

[granite sphinx]

when i notice a portal spawning in ive taken to running as far away from it as i can that way it doesnt burst out and wreck me

i know good cosmilite management, ive played this game for a hella long time

[eternal escarp]

also dog cheap hitting is also something that got fixed i think? im not sure about that

[granite sphinx]

you still need to kill dog at least 2-3 times depending on luck

[eternal escarp]

2 or 3 isnt that much tbh

[granite sphinx]

in death mode it sure as hell is

[eternal escarp]

i played death mode myself, it really wasnt

[granite sphinx]

first kill on it took over 100+ attempts for me

[sleek turret]

depends if you want to farm DoG or not

1 is atleast for 1 cosmilite weapon and the forge

[granite sphinx]

its not a thing of wanting to farm an item or something from dog

[sleek turret]

2-3 is for the armor if you want and some other weapons.

[granite sphinx]

you need cosmilite, and more than it drops for 1 kill for the armor, which is needed for auric tesla

[eternal escarp]

it still isnt really that big of a deal to kill DoG once or twice more after you get some next tier gier

[sleek turret]

yeah

[granite sphinx]

say that to the 40+ deaths ive accumulated so far after killing it once

[eternal escarp]

i mean

to me it wasnt a problem

and i died a fuckton

and im sure theres people out there that die in less, because they get better

its not really a problem

[granite sphinx]

98% of my deaths to dog have been to the head

believe me when i say its not a matter of skill

[eternal escarp]

and thats already changed

[granite sphinx]

its a very rare life where i die to something other than the head

[eternal escarp]

so, whats your sugg idea even? to change the insta kill head?

[granite sphinx]

just the spawn mechanics

i know the head is being changed

[ashen warren]

You can see where he spawns before he doee

[granite sphinx]

about 50 deaths so far have been cheap kills upon spawning

[eternal escarp]

the "cheap shots" that DoG sometimes does isnt that common even to be annoying iirc

[ashen warren]

If you're close enough to get spawncamped then you need to move away from it

[eternal escarp]

^

[ashen warren]

Its there for several seconds and isn't hard to see

[granite sphinx]

listen man youve gotta be close enough to actually hit it

[eternal escarp]

not really?
most classes has well enough good range by then

[granite sphinx]

lotta weapons have limits to their range

[eternal escarp]

which ones? true melee?

[ashen warren]

Then use one with range

Or don't run towards the head

[cobalt pewter]

Only true melee would seem to really suffer from it?

And idk why you'd need to get close to dog when he spawns (or when he does a tp)

[ashen warren]

If you're using weapons that make the fight harder don't complain that you're finding it harder

[eternal escarp]

prty sure only true melee, or medium range (like flamethrowers) would suffer from a range issue

and maybe summoners, just maybe

because sirius exists iirc

[ashen warren]

I don't recall having an issue using flamethrowers, every class but true melee shouldnt need to be close enough to spawncamped

[sand umbra]

medium range (like flamethrowers)

like flamethrowers

[cobalt pewter]

Flammensniper

[sand umbra]

f l a m e t h r o w e r s

[cobalt pewter]

[sand umbra]

read: Halley's is the antithesis of "medium range" what are you on

I mean you could use Blood Boiler I guess but why would you do that Blood Boiler is trash in comparison and is also like a tier and a half earlier

[ashen warren]

DoG is easy enough to use off tier weapons on I found

But I never encountered him spawncamping no matter what I was using

[sand umbra]

that still doesn't answer my question of why you would use Blood Boiler of all things

the best way to fight DoG with a flamethrower is to camp him out with Halley's

[ashen warren]

I used pristine fury, much better than the blood boiler

Think I forgot Halley existed

[sand umbra]

oh yeah that thing exists

I genuinely forget Pristine Fury exists most of the time

and I mean it's a legendary so of course it works

(also it seems like it has better range than Blood Boiler by a mile just at a cursory glance)

[cobalt pewter]

Also you can make lingering fire with Pristine Fury so that's epic

[cobalt pewter]

...

Is this really needed?

[tight echo]

other classes have it

mage and rogue should have one too imo

[cobalt pewter]

Mage can just live off brimflame and spectre up until Nebula

Rogue does fine with Umbraphile all the way to ML

[whole sedge]

Yeah rogue already kinda has umbraphile and mage has well brimflame and spectre so this seems kinda eh to me

[cobalt pewter]

pML suffers more from lack of unique, single class armors rather than HM

[tight echo]

still, other classes have a post golem armor and these 2 dont, its weird imo

[twilit warren]

Late hardmode is already cluttered with enough armors we don’t need more

[fossil finch]

this would only pretty much work if hydro was made to be actually unique ig

[tight echo]

maybe making hydrotermic a class only armor and adding another armor for other class might work

[eternal escarp]

the fact 3 classes have a specific armor isnt enough to warrant these two aswell imo

otherwise

same logic applies to pre boss

and maybe post skeletron too

and other locations

its really not a good reason imo

[safe oasis]

it applies everywhere except for directly after moon lord

[analog talon]

no classes get a unique armor post-polterghasr or post-DoG

[eternal escarp]

in the entire post provi to scal, theres only 1 class specific armor yes

and there should be a bit more

but not every class needs to have 1 at every tier

[safe oasis]

otherwise there’s no point in the all class ones yeah

[earnest cape]

At the very least you CAN see the projectiles as the moons are translucent

And i didn't see you mentioning that

Yes i may be late

Imagine being 5 hours late couldnt be me

[safe oasis]

@analog talon ^

forgot to @ him

[earnest cape]

Look man my brain is slippig after 4 hours straight of watching anime

[safe oasis]

that’s misfortunate

[earnest cape]

You have an obligation to die, sir

[grim tusk]

Brimflame is only nohitters, Hydro and spectre have advantages over each other and reaver is just busted

brimflame lasts til demonshade lmao

[fossil finch]

brimeme

[grim tusk]

Yea it needed to be changed

Now usable outside of nohits, but no longer opaf on em

[fossil finch]

i used it outside of nohits up until golem th

[grim tusk]

Did u use frenzy tho?

[fossil finch]

ye

[grim tusk]

But yea most people dont touch brimflame

specially cuz reaver exists and spectre’s lifesteal

[ashen finch]

eh I'm gonna touch Brimflame armor soon

[grim tusk]

They might need more transparency though

[safe oasis]

or just layer the projectiles on top of the moons

[fossil finch]

Agree

[safe oasis]

you could probably add a consistency argument somewhere but yeah good sugg

[hot zephyr]

@safe oasis This is an extremely unlikely idea and something that's been suggested before

[dapper coral]

hello it is i

a mod

[hot zephyr]

tl;dr there's no point in doing this when an average user can just @ staff if they really need their nick changed

[safe oasis]

it is him
a mod

[safe oasis]

While it can be argued that the mods don't mind the ping, the issue is when a user is too scared or shy to ping said moderator

[tawny garden]

yeah no

[hot zephyr]

Boo hoo

If they can speak in a public discord they can @ a mod

[tawny garden]

not happeing

[dapper coral]

Someone could very easily change their discord username directly if they wanted to troll by using an inappropriate name.
this is the part where we can a) change the nickname so nobody sees their real tag, and b) ask them to change their real name too

[cobalt pewter]

Also a mod can just change someone's name to smth that works if their username is bruh

Damn, demik fast

[fossil finch]

You'd be surprised, tho the other counter points feel more valid

[hot zephyr]

What problems does preventing nicknames actually cause?

If anything, the inverse is true. Letting people change their nicks freely is a cause for disaster.

[tawny garden]

inconvenience at most

[safe oasis]

i explained the problems in the sugg

[hot zephyr]

It's just another headache for moderators

I've read the sugg

[safe oasis]

i should prob rephrase to inconvenience yeah

[hot zephyr]

This is just a terrible idea

[safe oasis]

i've seen people literally too scared to DM mod mail to report a user, imagine that except pinging a mod just to change a nickname

[dapper coral]

...apparently searching nickname in #suggestions-voting yields no results

[hot zephyr]

That's so much different

[dapper coral]

what happened to the other one

[tawny garden]

nobody suggested it before

[hot zephyr]

Actually reporting a user is way more "scary" than a nickname change

[tawny garden]

I think

[dapper coral]

it's definitely been talked about here before

[fossil finch]

I mean, here's the thing
For a troll nickname to work, the person has to post a message or be top on user list
Both are easy to spot

[dapper coral]

maybe it got deleted before it got sent

[hot zephyr]

It's been suggested before.

Especially if the user you're reporting is a regular, or the subject matter of reporting is disgusting

[tawny garden]

94 results in discussion

[dapper coral]

#suggestions-discussion message

[hot zephyr]

You can't compare those two scenarios, because they're not alike.

[tawny garden]

didn't lead to a sugg

[dapper coral]

eah

[safe oasis]

that kinda lead to a sugg

i was gonna sugg it right after sending that then forgot

so here it is now

[hot zephyr]

If you were here in the days leading up to Acid Rain and the fallout afterwards you'd 100% agree with my stance, Psychic.

[safe oasis]

uh when was that

[dapper coral]

april 1st iirc

last year

[tawny garden]

it was chaotic in general channels

[safe oasis]

oh so april fools
not sure what you expected

[cobalt pewter]

There are dumbasses with ! in their username

(yes that includes you, ijones )

[tawny garden]

ijones

[fossil finch]

Or simply discord names far more effective in x100 the servers

[safe oasis]

are you saying preventing nick names solves that?

[tawny garden]

tbf I encouraged him to do that

[fossil finch]

It doesn't

Most of the ! Users have them in the names

[hot zephyr]

It reduces it

[crude geode]

Eases moderator pain.

[hot zephyr]

It's not preventative but it lessens the burden of moderating this place.

[safe oasis]

what pain though, it doesn't look like they're doing much about it

[tawny garden]

also, if a username is inappropriate, mods can change the nick to smth appropriate

[dapper coral]

just because you don't see something happen doesn't mean it's not happening

[safe oasis]

fair

[safe oasis]

just make warned role not have the ability lol

[tawny garden]

if you give everyone nick perms, they won't be able to do that anymore

m

[hot zephyr]

Even then, it's still more work.

It also makes recognizing people a headache, as people are freely changing their nicks.

[crude geode]

For example, joke suggestions. Most of the time I barely see them, but they still exist, and mods still have to deal with them. Same happens with problematic users who nickname themselves.

[dapper coral]

the reason you don't see a lot of them is because we change them as soon as those people join the server
because we actually have the ability to do so

[hot zephyr]

It's the old saying "Give em an inch, and they'll take a mile". Give the userbase a pinch of power and they'll abuse it.

[safe oasis]

that's only really for the first week though
kinda like a power rush

[hot zephyr]

No, lol.

[safe oasis]

if they have that by default it becomes average

[hot zephyr]

It still happens

And would continue to happen, indefinitely

[tawny garden]

people who join later won't have that "power rush"

but they will still do stupid shit

[hot zephyr]

Under a "free-nick" Calamain

• moderator work increases exponentially
  but
• you can do the nick thing without PM

The ends don't justify the means.

[tawny garden]

the terraria server has a system for this

but I don't see it happening here

(Terrarian role)

[hot zephyr]

If Terramain is your goal, well.

I don't know what to say.

[dapper coral]

hng