suggestions-discussion

[zealous ridge]

You’re still able to make good sp stealth builds

they’re just a big ass investment

[long widget]

mp is pretty balanced for what its worth

[crude geode]

Investing to get out of your class? Imagine

[zealous ridge]

I don’t know about that with my experience

but yeah

it’s more that it’s excessive investment, yknow

literally every sheath eqquipped is a bit... hmm

but, regardless

I wait for the feedz to speak

[hot zephyr]

Funny donor item

[crude geode]

Tbh it’s kinda similar to summoner as of right now

Byech

[zealous ridge]

...huh

funny donor item.............

[crude geode]

funny donor item

[swift frost]

Continuing on,can you pinpoint any exact issues with ceaseless/boss arenas as a whole?

[zealous ridge]

alright, so

there are certain cases in this mod where boss arenas have to be built

this is not an uncommon thing, even for vanilla

but due to how some of these bosses work

making a giant, boring to build arena is almost required to have any fun learning the boss

[swift frost]

For me:
Way too big arenas
Tedious+time consuming to make
Are complex due to boss mechanics

[zealous ridge]

a big issue is that their AI changes with the arena

[swift frost]

Yep

Signus is bullshit for me

[zealous ridge]

polter becomes more aggressive with the less blocks around

[swift frost]

I cant avoid the damn horny charge

[zealous ridge]

im unsure if that is affected by arena

[swift frost]

“Just dodge” is not really advice

[zealous ridge]

its a tricky attack, in all fairness

[swift frost]

The issue is that most arenas are fucking annoying to create

Could just pull an scal

[zealous ridge]

hm

[swift frost]

And make the item summon the arena

[zealous ridge]

generate an arena when using a summon item

that sounds really bad

... honeslty

[swift frost]

Or have a designated “arena spot” in the world

[zealous ridge]

now that is better

[swift frost]

So when you use the item it will make one there

[zealous ridge]

polterghast getting his own chamber in the dungeon is an example

[swift frost]

Good idea

[zealous ridge]

some sort of tortured soul pit

yknow

[swift frost]

Perhaps you can unlock the arena using phantoplasm

[zealous ridge]

i mean, that doesnt even need to be nessecary

[swift frost]

And put the summon item into a slot

Yeah

[zealous ridge]

have it just be a giant area which makes fighting polter less annoying

[swift frost]

It would be interesting

[toxic basalt]

I see we're talking about how tedious it is to make an arena in the dungeon?

[zealous ridge]

your idea is interesting, but

[swift frost]

In general

[zealous ridge]

keep in mind

we cant really get too specific with our ideas here

[swift frost]

Yeah

[toxic basalt]

@zealous ridge Polterghast does have an enraged state right?

[zealous ridge]

(yeah, meister, we're talking about how annoying it can be to make certain arenas)

yes he does

but there is a bit of confusion there

[toxic basalt]

and is it only, and I mean only if you're not in the dungeon?

[zealous ridge]

because he has a varying ai

okay so, basically

[swift frost]

Arena size

[zealous ridge]

he has a plantera esque enrage when youre on the surface

where he despawns after like 10 seconds

that is what youre talking about here

but, he has a seperate mechanic that doesnt despawn the boss

its called a "block enrage" usually

polterghast gets more aggressive the less blocks are near him

[swift frost]

(Same with ceaseless)

[zealous ridge]

i was less sure on ceaseless

but yeah

[swift frost]

I think its the more blocks

[zealous ridge]

...that doesnt sound right

[swift frost]

Since bigger arenas are generally better

[zealous ridge]

hold on

[toxic basalt]

motherfu-

[swift frost]

Like proximity to blocks

[zealous ridge]

he gets more aggressive if there arent as many blocks near him, yeah

thats what the wiki says

[swift frost]

WHAT

[zealous ridge]

and, bigger arenas are good for polter, dont get me wrong

[swift frost]

Thats bullshit

[toxic basalt]

(that must be why he was so fast the last time I fought him)

[zealous ridge]

this is because, well, you have more room to avoid things like dashes

this is primarily why the best polter arena is a donut

with a cluster of blocks or actuated tiles in the center of the arena

[swift frost]

Mmm donut

But actually

[zealous ridge]

it balances maneuverability and keeping his enrage in check

[toxic basalt]

Wait, wait ,wait, there's a solution to this...Flood the dungeon and use the Diving Suit

[zealous ridge]

technically, but who the fuck does that

[swift frost]

So many aspects of arena building is kind of trial and error

[zealous ridge]

(polterghast moves more slowly in water)

[toxic basalt]

someone who hates his speed scaling mechanic

[zealous ridge]

yeah, its really fucking stupid

i dont know who's expected to do that

or to even know that's a thing at all

[swift frost]

Most of the damage in rev is too much for me

[unique kite]

wtf 40x40 that's nothing

[zealous ridge]

his damage is also pretty jacked

[swift frost]

Dont fucking say the line of “dont play rev”

[zealous ridge]

this is an issue with a few bosses

mostly in post ml

(ace its ok were not gonna bulli you here)

(i wont, at least)

[unique kite]

look man the only things people can say to that are "don't play rev" or "don't get hit"
there really isn't anything useful we can respond to that with

[swift frost]

Thats a shitty thing to say since it just detracts from the fucking experience

And there are so many good parts of it

[zealous ridge]

its a dumb thing to say yeah

but honestly, i wouldnt worry about it

[swift frost]

Its just that that one aspect is annoying

Not really all that bad

[zealous ridge]

people who respond with that are either at a loss of anything else to say or are trolling

[unique kite]

you could get buffs to reduce the damage you take, like endurance or maybe ironskin

[swift frost]

I do that

[zealous ridge]

(this isnt help and advice)

[swift frost]

I have constant buffs on actually

[unique kite]

right right

[swift frost]

Not all of them

[zealous ridge]

we're talking about the boss being just, kind of bad in general

[swift frost]

Just the basics

[unique kite]

i don't mind polter much, he doesn't really do anything

[swift frost]

Polter is fun

I hate ceaseless so fucking much

[zealous ridge]

you shouldnt need anything past the basics to at least have a decent chance at killing the boss

[swift frost]

More deaths than prov

[zealous ridge]

right, ceaseless

lets focus on that more

[unique kite]

he's the post ml version of cryogen in that he's annoying as fuck because he doesn't do much but what he does is amped really hard

[swift frost]

I tried cease pre prov

[zealous ridge]

well that probably wouldnt have helped it being hard as fuck

[swift frost]

I hated the fucking mod so much since prov was a fucking wall at the time

Dragonfolly was fucking annoying

His damn thunder feathers kept hitting me

The fight was too noisy

Too much shit to worry about

[zealous ridge]

alright alright, hold on

[dapper coral]

is this related to a sugg?

[zealous ridge]

im a bit discombobulated now, youre bringing up a lot

yeah, we're discussing, demik

[swift frost]

Mostly describing my experience

I havent beat dragonfolly actually

[zealous ridge]

we're thinking on a suggestion to change ceaseless right now

kind of

[swift frost]

But prov was really fun

However

While I was stuck at prov,I tried ceaseless for convenience since I just wanted to try something else

[pine star]

Cryogen was hard?

[swift frost]

Died 80+ times

[zealous ridge]

Jeez

[unique kite]

not hard, annoying

[swift frost]

That period of my mod experience

Was fucking draining

[zealous ridge]

I mean, ceaseless is meant to be fought post prov

But still the boss is fucked

[unique kite]

like i said, he doesn't do much but what he does is amped hard as fuck because he can like 2 shot you or freeze you instantly

[swift frost]

Feeling that any choice I had would lead to failure

[pine star]

I know
He wasn't annoying at all for me

[unique kite]

ok good job

[pine star]

warmth potions exist

[swift frost]

I mostly tried ceaseless for a breath of fresh air

[zealous ridge]

The thing here is, the boss is not fit for an underground arena

[swift frost]

But it ended up being more annoying

Yep

[zealous ridge]

but it enrages outside of underground

so it’s like... why???

this is similar to pbg and queen bee, somewhat

[swift frost]

Yeah,the minions bro

Omfg

[zealous ridge]

But both of those bosses are still able to be done in underground

[swift frost]

You cant even hit them with a small arena sometimes

Since they go through walls

And have fucking knockback immunity sometimes

[zealous ridge]

yeah the boss and the minions can frequently hide in walls

[swift frost]

And the orbs keep pinning you

[zealous ridge]

which just drags the fight

[swift frost]

Its fucking garbage

[zealous ridge]

okay, so

What are we thinking could be suggested to help this?

[swift frost]

:fight aint fit for underground:

Just move the fight

[zealous ridge]

make it a surface boss?

[pine star]

Perhaps you should suggest "Make Ceaseless Void's Dark Energies unable to move in blocks"

[swift frost]

Yeah

[zealous ridge]

or at least, no enrage outside of underground

[swift frost]

No thats bad for a different reason LX

They can clump on walls

[zealous ridge]

yeah, I could see that making the arena crowded

[swift frost]

Imagine your arena is filled with them

[zealous ridge]

if it’s still underground, that is

[swift frost]

Makes it worse

Move it to surface dungeon

[zealous ridge]

If it’s in an open area like surface, it’s less of an issue

[swift frost]

Or hallow

[zealous ridge]

Okay, so

[swift frost]

Or some other open area

[zealous ridge]

Surface dungeon is like, impossible to define

but yeah

surface in general

[pine star]

oh

[unique kite]

i remember fighting cv in hell

[zealous ridge]

hell would be not terrible

[unique kite]

it's way better

[zealous ridge]

But signus is already down there

[swift frost]

I meant they could clump if that was changed

[unique kite]

blocks everywhere so he doesn't get pissed

[zealous ridge]

And sky is also taken by weaver

[unique kite]

and long space to run into

[swift frost]

Yeah hell would be kinda nice (tbh move all the sentinels to one place,I know its “thematic” but making an arena for each is fucking annoying as shit.)

[unique kite]

well i think they're going for a "3 layers of the world" type thing with sw being in space and signus in hell

[golden narwhal]

this is why terraria doesn't have a dungeon boss

[tawny garden]

[swift frost]

Signus is in hell.Prov can be in hell.Polter is in dungeon.Ceaseless is in dungeon.

[zealous ridge]

I mean, if two bosses were in space, that wouldn’t be too terrible either

[swift frost]

The placements still line up

Theres no need to seperate them to such extremes

[toxic basalt]

The last dungeon-esque boss I've seen was put into a completely new structure

[swift frost]

Wait

If ceaseless is the underground layer

Just make the arena/spawn all of the underground.

[zealous ridge]

Yeah

[unique kite]

dungeon is so fucking ass to fight in

[swift frost]

Mhhmm

[zealous ridge]

well, i think that’s technically a thing already

because he doesn’t enrage outside of dungeon

but he enrages on surface

[swift frost]

But you can only summon him in dungeon

So its like ?!??

[zealous ridge]

Yeah

[toxic basalt]

No, because then you could just spawn them in places irrelavent to what they are, sure I'll just go spawn Polterghast in the Jungle Temple

[zealous ridge]

We could ask to remove that

[swift frost]

The fucks the pont

[zealous ridge]

why have ceaseless be tied to dungeon at all

It makes sense for polter

[swift frost]

Whats more important,meister

[zealous ridge]

Not for void

[swift frost]

Consistency/muh lore or actual good gameplay

If they spawn it in jungle

[zealous ridge]

Yeah

[swift frost]

Its their damn choice

[golden narwhal]

There still should be some level of theming

[swift frost]

If they wanted to be all fancy they could spawn it in a thematic area

[zealous ridge]

For the sake of polter being a dungeon themed boss, i think it makes sense he spawns from dungeon

Void has no such connection

at all

[swift frost]

Then add a non dungeon underground enrage

If you want to be super thematic

Like

Why

[golden narwhal]

Nobody asked for super-thematic

[zealous ridge]

I was thinking, give a structure that’s a big arena, and have it be where you can spawn the ceaseless void by like, breaking a mirror

[swift frost]

Then how do you make the arena actually placed in a good place

[zealous ridge]

I wouldn’t suggest that specifically

But, that kind of idea

[swift frost]

Just add natural arenas

Its lore friendly

Thematic

And fun

[zealous ridge]

So, alright

I think we have something here

[swift frost]

Lets simplifiy

[zealous ridge]

Ace, I’ll try and write something up and I’ll ping you if you don’t respond

right now I’m going somewhere

[swift frost]

Sure

[zealous ridge]

so I’m gonna see what I can do, and we can make edits and clarifications here before going to posting

That sound good?

[swift frost]

Yep

[zealous ridge]

alright, very nice

[swift frost]

Ill just boil down the points rn

[zealous ridge]

okay, sounds good

[swift frost]

Arena Design Problems:
Arenas in Calamity often suffer from being very time consuming,annoying,expensive and difficult to make.Many bosses require arenas in the mod and the specificities and gimmicks of their fights often influence the designs of arenas.They need designs that allow the player to be able to defeat the boss most effectively while allowing room for error.Getting resources like campfires,heart lanterns,honey and asphalt can take some time and be generally quite tedious without quality of life mods.The problem is,Calamity arenas tend to rely on this too much rather than fixing the problem at hand.I dont think the goal is to have other mods fixing Calamity’s problems for it.A suggestion that can help improve the experience of the player would be:

[zealous ridge]

alright, good summary

the suggestion will likely be more focused than this

I think we can start with, like

[swift frost]

I have a good idea on how to improve these arena problems across the mod

[zealous ridge]

“Remove Ceaseless Void’s dungeon spawning requirement and give him a different area to spawn underground.”

Something like that

[swift frost]

A small totem where you can place a summon item into it and it generates an arena for that boss

As an example

[zealous ridge]

I can’t right details myself, because I’m not at a computer and unable to write comfortably myself

That’s a very interesting idea

I would have to think on it though

[swift frost]

And you can reverse it/it happens in a different dimension

You know those dimensions in some mods

Use an item

And its a different map?

Either make a arena dimension or have some kind of block memory system so you can reverse arenas

Like it saves the chunk it replaces

And if you dont want the arena to be there it just puts the chunk back

[unique kite]

designs that allow the player to be able to defeat the boss most effectively while allowing room for error
it's very difficult to do that without also making the fight extremely easy- which is already done by the easier difficulties

[swift frost]

Yeah

[unique kite]

you can just use the copy/paste function from cheat sheet which everyone does

and instabridges from fargo's which everyone also does

[swift frost]

To be fair,yes,but thats not really the point

I use instabridges

Its just that the problem here is with the mod itself

If people dont want to ise cheat sheet then its still not fixed

[zealous ridge]

We need to consider this as a singular experience

[swift frost]

The problem doesnt dissapear

Yep

[unique kite]

the mod isn't designed around fixing these difficulties, its job is giving the challenge in the first place
other mods can take care of the more tedious aspects of dealing with the challenges

[swift frost]

If you only had calamity on

As its own thing

[zealous ridge]

calamity cannot brush off issues because some other mod fixes them magically

[swift frost]

^

[unique kite]

guess you can suggest an instabridge item

[swift frost]

Its just laziness on that part

[zealous ridge]

I feel calamity needs answers for its problems regarding having to make massive arenas

one way, would be to give players a new tool, yes

[unique kite]

honestly the only fight that's actually a pain in the ass to make an arena for is like
moon lord

[zealous ridge]

But, I’m more thinking on ways which are more specific to each boss

[unique kite]

everything else is mostly just big platform high up

[swift frost]

Mostly

[unique kite]

arenas just fall off in general as the game progresses

[swift frost]

An aterisk* there

[zealous ridge]

This is why I think making ceaseless his own zone which is really cleared out on worldgen or something is a good idea

[unique kite]

making an entire construction tool for the sake of 1 or 2 fights being made easier with a big arena feels pretty pointless

i say just make ceaseless a space fight

good enough

[swift frost]

Yeah

[zealous ridge]

mmm

[swift frost]

But what about other fights

[zealous ridge]

That’s a solution

[unique kite]

the problem here is that ceaseless is in a bad place
so just move him somewhere else, done

[swift frost]

It still doesnt fix everything

[unique kite]

what else is ther

[swift frost]

Just an incidental problem

Uhhhh

[unique kite]

individual problems can be solved individually

[zealous ridge]

Space has issues of its own first of all

[swift frost]

Like polter,Prov,

These are mostly from my own limited experience

[unique kite]

polter is probably one of the easiest fights in post ml

it's just plantera without the balls

[zealous ridge]

well he kind of is

[swift frost]

Yes,but

[zealous ridge]

He’s a badly designed boss, first and foremost

[swift frost]

Woah

[unique kite]

yeah, that's its own issue that has nothing to do with an big overarching arena trouble with the mod

[swift frost]

I kind of like him

[unique kite]

providence too in a way

she's just too fuckin big

[swift frost]

Not nothing honestly

[unique kite]

other than that it's fine

[zealous ridge]

You’re allowed to like him I don’t mean to trash on that

[swift frost]

Yeah

Ik

[unique kite]

nah nobody likes polter, he's just easy and bad

[zealous ridge]

I mean, he’s honestly just not very well designed around, for example, being a dungeon boss

[unique kite]

i honestly thing he needs the astral slime treatment

[zealous ridge]

Or being distinct enough from plantera

[unique kite]

which is get that shit the fuck out and bring a new one

[swift frost]

Kinda happening rn

[zealous ridge]

plans are being made I know that much

Yeah

[swift frost]

Hes getting resprited

[unique kite]

cool

[swift frost]

And stuff

[unique kite]

that usually means more changes

he just feels like a relic from an older time in the mod

[swift frost]

Yeah

[unique kite]

so ace any other fights on your mind

[swift frost]

Prehardmodes experience is smooth

[zealous ridge]

hmm

[unique kite]

prehardmode is the time when you build the most arenas

[swift frost]

Hardmode has some bumps but is aight

Post moonlord is fucking agony

[zealous ridge]

the arenas are not that big, is the difference

[unique kite]

hardmode the only arenas you really build are plantera and moon lord (depending on class moon lord just needs a platform)

[pine star]

Provi was honestly excellent

The trick is to hallow your main arena

[swift frost]

^

[unique kite]

post ml there's i think 6 bosses total?

[zealous ridge]

most of them need arenas

[swift frost]

All of them need a huge arena

[zealous ridge]

yeah

the only one that doesn’t is probably profaned guardians

[unique kite]

i think only dog really needs a huge arena out of them actually

[swift frost]

Doesnt change the problem really

Dog,Yharon,etc

[unique kite]

prov too but you can just fight her in hell

[zealous ridge]

nah, all of them need pretty large arenas

[unique kite]

yharon is a big platform high up and that's it

he even limits how much you can build himself

[zealous ridge]

you don’t make walls to block the tornadoes?

I mean, I thought most people did that

[unique kite]

by then you can get gizmo pack and builder potions really easily

wait you can block tornadoes?

[zealous ridge]

that’s true for all post-ml bosses

Gizmo is easy to have

[unique kite]

gizmo and builder potions cut your build time to at least half

so it's fair to have arenas 2x as big as prehm or so

[pine star]

I didn't know the infernadoes could be blocked

[unique kite]

me neither lmao

probably banned in nohits, lemme check

unrelated, just curious

nope nothing mentioned at all

[swift frost]

I might even add the arena creator thing to my own mod idea,Zenium

[unique kite]

zenium?

guessing it gives boss zen and builder potion

[swift frost]

Just a big idea I have,lots of content I hope to make

Summon rework is a big one

[unique kite]

well til you're allowed to build walls to block half of yharon's attacks

[swift frost]

Making more utility summons

Or summons that debuff enemies,rideable snowball summon,Healing aura summon etc

Summoner as a whole in tmod feels quite bland

No one really experiments

They just make it a zerg rush gimmick and thats it

Only thing that changes is unique designs/ a sliver of uniqueness

[pine star]

iirc ThomasthePencil said that Summoner is inherently bland

[swift frost]

Otherwise it feels samey

[pine star]

Because you run around with your goons doing the damage

[swift frost]

I like the use of the word goon there

[unique kite]

summoner is a side effect of the limitations of terraria as a game

[swift frost]

Its true

[pine star]

That said, a rideable snowball summon sounds interesting

[unique kite]

the only ways you can make an item that does damage is 1. homing projectile, 2. nonhoming projectile, or 3. controlled projectile

with some exceptions and twists, like having gravity or true melee

[swift frost]

Or a thorn snake that leeches hp and gives it to you

[unique kite]

summoner can't really fall into any of these categories except the 3rd

so they choose to make it passive damage

[zealous ridge]

Wait, you guys didn’t fucking know you could put blocks in front of the infernadoes

[swift frost]

Im going to redefine summoner

[pine star]

no we did not know

[swift frost]

That is my goal

[unique kite]

no

never heard of it or seen it anywhere

[zealous ridge]

This is new information to me

I literally wouldn’t feel safe not doing it

[unique kite]

checked the wiki, nothing there at all

[zealous ridge]

wow

[unique kite]

nohit rules say nothing despite generally banning things like this

[zealous ridge]

what?

[unique kite]

no mention of this anywhere

[zealous ridge]

Well, the arena isn’t made any bigger

you’re just putting blocks in front of the infernadoes so you don’t randomly run into them

[unique kite]

couldn't find any scraplings of information anywhere on the internet

[swift frost]

I have a new definition for summon in my mod idea

[unique kite]

OH

THAT

[zealous ridge]

they’re still there and he still enrages outside of that zone

[unique kite]

i thought you meant having fucking background walls to make the infernadoes not spawn

[zealous ridge]

oh

What no lmao

[unique kite]

no, people generally just don't do that

because they don't get close to the corners

[zealous ridge]

really? Damn

[unique kite]

getting cornered by yharon is just death

[zealous ridge]

I always do it

that’s so weird to me

anyways, sorry

[sleek ore]

just aegis dash

[swift frost]

Summon weapon new definition:Creating magical constructs(Arcane) or summoning creatures(Creature) to aid the player in some way,offensively,defensively or a mix of both.

I would also like there to be some level of customizable summons/summons being a pet that you raise to full power and have bonds with

The reason why this is so in depth

Is mostly because of the core issues summoning pre 1.4 (and post) has

Its that it isnt engaging

Running while having your lads smack a enemy isnt really fun

Stabbing with swords,firing arrows or bullets,using the powers of the arcane to obliterate your enemies,summoning lads.

Whips do help the player engage with the problem

But it doesnt make the problem non existent

It just adds a new method of combat,nothing more.

The summons are still the same old,boring braindead meatsacks theyve always been

[rapid pivot]

.. Except this, in my opinion, really isn't something that's within the scope of the Calamity mod.

[unique kite]

i think it's not within the scope of terraria in general

[rapid pivot]

This would probably have to be its own mod, as it is in effect a sweeping overhaul to a class.

[swift frost]

I dont really get the point of removing summon acc stacks

[unique kite]

adding complexity to simplicity takes away from the charm of the game, which is "don't get hit, and hit back"

[swift frost]

Empowering the minions is coolio

[unique kite]

not to mention taking too much focus to "hit back" makes "don't get hit" way more difficult

[rapid pivot]

plus, uh.. there's plenty of variety in summoning weps imo

[unique kite]

yeah the ice shards, the nuggets, the twins, etc.

[rapid pivot]

it's more than just 'running while your enemies smack a lad'

[unique kite]

well yeah it is but there's nothing wrong with that

it's different ways of your lads smacking the enemy and that's good enough

[swift frost]

Yea

[dapper coral]

because it was pretty silly to be able to do so
summoner is getting balance tested accordingly so that it's still viable and epic, just without the silly

[swift frost]

Hell

I really like that

Since acc stacks were quite boring,and minion slots felt way too plentiful

[unique kite]

having 45 minions that do very litte isn't really any more "fun" than having 15 minions that each do 3x more than the 45

[swift frost]

Solutions to make the minions stronger

^

Thats mostly the issue im grappling with

What can you change

[unique kite]

it also makes it so using different types of summons is good for different things

[swift frost]

Without it being too much

[unique kite]

since you don't need 4 summons to do the job of 1 item

honestly i think the best way to "change" summoner is to encourage using different types of summons at once

[swift frost]

^^^^^^^^

This is what I mean

[unique kite]

but making that many weapons at each stage of the game just isn't very effective since there will always be a best summon

[rapid pivot]

alternative

[unique kite]

maybe set a hardcap on how many summons of each type you can have?

[rapid pivot]

weapons like, say, the Black Hawk's upgrades

those are probably some of the most interesting summons in the game, just by virtue of how they interact with ammo

[unique kite]

encouraging variety in active summons might be the only way way of adding interactivity to a passive class

[swift frost]

Because theyre unique

They aint just runnies that throw stuff/smack stuff

[unique kite]

having 4 nuggets and just leaving the rest of your summon slots empty because they're useless is silly

[swift frost]

They can be customized

With bullets

You know the thorn snake and snowball

Some of my favorite ideas

Snowball for mobility

Snake for health

They encourage variety

And mixing/matching

Perhaps you can “allot” summon slots into a staff

To make one big minion

[pine star]

So Stardust Dragon/Infected Remote, but with controllable size/strength?

[swift frost]

Similar to that

Its difficult to balance

Why have many small things when you can have a big thing is obvious

Im talking about viewing your slots as more important than extra dps and giving more uses to them

Spirit mod added some summon tag weps recently

And those are the kind of thing I think summoner needs

Whips are a step in the right direction

[pine star]

IMO whips are not a step in the right direction

[swift frost]

They add something to do

[pine star]

Like whips themselves are not

Summon tag weapons are though

[swift frost]

Add more variety,encourage a diff playstyle,they feel like a half step tho

Tag weps are a great idea

And those weird zone thingies that give you buffs

They all do this thing called

Adding variety

Current summons arent varied

“I take up all slots and get stronger” and “I take up more slots than usual and can only be summoned once”

[crude geode]

there is variety in summoner weapons, you’re pretty purely focused on endgame.

[proper grail]

this suggestion

[white swift]

petiton to replace the brimstone music with pigstep for a limited time

[proper grail]

Denied

[white swift]

sigh

i knew it

but it even fits the theme

[crude geode]

Copyright would prolly fuck calamity six ways from Sunday

[white swift]

oh ya

i forgot

[tired haven]

There is likely no strictly endorsed copyright on that track but it'd still spark unneeded danger

[white swift]

wait is that the real crabbar?

no that cant be

[ashen warren]

maybe

[crude geode]

Couldn’t be him

[white swift]

oh boy the views im going to get

if hes real

[ashen warren]

wh

[white swift]

on yt

[crude geode]

no it can’t be crabbar

He doesn’t have a mustache on his pfp

[white swift]

misi are you a verified streamer?

[ashen warren]

no

[proper grail]

You can check people's roles

Also this isn't related to suggestions

If you'd like to talk here, please make a suggestion or comment on one

[crystal iron]

I wonder what the first ever Sugg was

[pine star]

oh

That's a decent start to the suggs

[white swift]

oh, so you like suggestions?name them all.

[summer sentinel]

@ feedzuh

[pine star]

@ ThomasthePencil

[cobalt pewter]

Efdrvbhgghtt

[pine star]

[proper grail]

That's screenshot worthy

[pine star]

yup

[proper grail]

If only Dan had better spelling

[white swift]

consider it done

[proper grail]

What was the rule? If something gets sent to the devs but doesn't get a labelled vote even after a week or two, the vote was a tie?

[radiant meadow]

either it was a tie or it just didn't get voted on

most likely just didn't get voted on

[proper grail]

Wondering what happened to summoner RIVs

[proper grail]

Is that intentional or just due to you all being preoccupied?

[radiant meadow]

It just means nobody has a strong opinion

Voting isn't mandatory

[proper grail]

Ah, something I didn't know yet

[radiant meadow]

although I think regarding the summoner RIVs sugg, I think Brav just forgot to review them and relay the results

It looks like it was rejected 3 to 1

[proper grail]

K, thanks

[hot zephyr]

Aren't RIVs discontinued anyways?

[cobalt pewter]

no more added methinks

[hot zephyr]

Good.

[proper grail]

Iirc it's in discussion but that is most likely

[cobalt pewter]

About the stealth tooltips

Yeah it's a fuck

Not sure if a Starter Bag item helps

[zenith hazel]

after the 2 day thing, it was still 2 to 1

so guess someone voted after that

[uncut orbit]

I have a quick question

How many stars does a vote need to get implemented into the mod

?

[cobalt pewter]

Implementation is never guaranteed

[uncut orbit]

I mean

Considered

[cobalt pewter]

But 200 stars for mod suggestions in order to be delivered to dev

[uncut orbit]

Ah

[cobalt pewter]

140 for server ones

[uncut orbit]

Ok

[cobalt pewter]

I haven't properly tested Totality yet, but it should definitely work a slight bit better on stealth

As much as it works nicely (which is just regen stacking half of the time), sometimes weapons can just fuck you over

For example, I have no real way to do stealth rogue on provi, and I had to fallback to polter first with Celestial Reaper

[earnest cape]

Yeah totality is only really good with stealth

I can confirm

[eternal escarp]

@random topaz , thats a tmod thing, and they have a warning on the item

the item racks have in bold red that they are very buggy

and manequens

[dapper coral]

yeah that's not a cal thing

ima remove it because of that and the above info

[robust lava]

I don't believe that red warning is a default tModLoader thing, but yes, the issue is independent of Calamity

[random topaz]

i do not have such warnings texts but if you say so :d at least I know now

[robust lava]

It looks like the red warning is added by Thorium

[eternal escarp]

it is?

huh

thats wierd

then in any case, suggest that to the tmod server instead

[robust lava]

I'm pretty sure it's getting fixed for tML 1.4 anyway

[eternal escarp]

that feels like it should have happened, had no idea this was a thorium thing

oo, thats new information

good to know then

[eternal escarp]

bard class is thorium..

@azure tapir

[azure tapir]

ohh

oohhhh

[summer sentinel]

@sharp prism #suggestions-voting message in real existence

[azure tapir]

I'm duumb

[azure tapir]

Thx for pointing out

[pine star]

[hot zephyr]

Lauren, Passer of Emotes

[earnest cape]

[tawny garden]

[pine star]

[tawny garden]

wait a sec

[cobalt pewter]

Yooo

[tawny garden]

was it delivered to mod corner or not

or did it just pass without voting from staff

[dull wren]

[summer sentinel]

it did this time, don't worry I didn't forget

[earnest cape]

[tawny garden]

place a fucking ✅ on it then smh

[summer sentinel]

isn't it a checkered flag

[tawny garden]

if it got delivered, it should have a check mark

flag is if it's done

[summer sentinel]

I'll give you a checkmark
but alright I will add it

[tawny garden]

please I will need it later for stats

[gray nebula]

good emote

[summer sentinel]

not again I thought I was clear with emotes

[cobalt pewter]

[summer sentinel]

It's fine since that'll reach star req in no time

boohoo radiates a great energy

[sleek turret]

boohoo is godly energy.

[tribal verge]

And that's exactly why we need it

[earnest cape]

:boohoo:

[sharp prism]

:boohoo:

[hot zephyr]

add :boohoo:

Everyone wants this

[whole sedge]

[sleek turret]

:boohoo:

[swift wharf]

it's but better

[pine star]

Good sugg

[whole sedge]

waiting for to be sugged next

[sleek turret]

boohoon't

[summer sentinel]

boohoo hasn't been posted for even an hour and you lot are already trying, smh

[hot zephyr]

Lauren

Abuse your powers and push it to voting

If pogu can be pushed early, boohoo should as well.

[cobalt pewter]

^

[hot zephyr]

Based demik

[dapper coral]

i just sent it

[cobalt pewter]

[dapper coral]

because it's an emote sugg and what the actual hell else are you gonna add to it lmao

[hot zephyr]

Suggestors of the world, with our powers combined!

We're going to create Boohoo 2: Boohoo Harder.

[tawny garden]

@ Rover add the fact that emote suggs are sent to voting earlier than in 24 hours to your posting pin

[hot zephyr]

emote bias

[dull wren]

BOOHOO 2: ELECTRIC BOOGALOO

[tawny garden]

Boohoo 2: electric boohoo

[dapper coral]

it's not like that's an official thing yet

[eternal escarp]

Boohoo 2: the boohooning

[tawny garden]

it's already de-facto, and I wouldn't have said that unless it was unofficial

[tribal verge]

[ashen warren]

how radical of an idea is making all projectile based swords use some sort of mana?

[tawny garden]

...very, I'd say

[cobalt pewter]

...sigh

We back to this?

[ashen warren]

thoughts on "projectile" on hit?

[tawny garden]

as they basically turn into magic weapons but with a melee damagetype

[ashen warren]

yes philo, we are using this suggestion to make a message about how garbango the melee class is

[tawny garden]

every class is garbango in their own way

[frail mantle]

yes, yes, and all that

we know

[ashen warren]

except the holy godly summoner

[cobalt pewter]

1.5 rogue is gonna be epic

[ashen warren]

it is

[tawny garden]

even summoner is bad sometimes

[frail mantle]

every class has an issue

[ashen warren]

fair enough, although the most unique one it lacks different ways to play

check this out

#suggestions-voting message

[tawny garden]

(should I crush his dreams and tell him the truth or should I let him believe in this for a while?)

[ashen warren]

let the man live

[tawny garden]

aight

[cobalt pewter]

What

[tawny garden]

what

[frail mantle]

melee is mostly manaless mage, ranged weapons tend to just be "point at enemy and win", summoner fuckin dies because haha projectile ai, mage basically has to have either a mana regen potion or mana flower at all times, the latter making it flashier ranged, and rogue's main mechanic (stealth) just isn't worth it (at least not in public version)

[ashen warren]

the thing is for rogue, you can't make a class on one mechanic

[frail mantle]

why not

[eternal escarp]

mage be like

[tawny garden]

yeah, why not

[ashen warren]

hard to make interesting for the most part

[tawny garden]

well

it's better than no mechanic

(hello melee)

[ashen warren]

correct

what keeps the player invested and encourage them to replay the class? different ways to play it

[eternal escarp]

yeah, and i mean, 1 mechanic works for mage and ranger

so

[eternal escarp]

same thing applys for all classes then

[ashen warren]

"work"

[tawny garden]

and summoner is also one mechanic

[ashen warren]

RANGER WORKS

[eternal escarp]

they are litterly almost always the same each time

[ashen warren]

vanilla classes

[eternal escarp]

in vanilla they are even blander imo

[ashen warren]

it is a fact

[tawny garden]

yes, they are

[eternal escarp]

a class can stand with 1 mechanic, so can rogue then

[tawny garden]

the thing with terraria

mods can't fix it

[eternal escarp]

^

[cobalt pewter]

Also with the new changes, rogue might be actually quite diverse in gameplay

You can do spam one run

Stealth another

Stealth without regen on the next one

[eternal escarp]

yeah, which is actual diversity, and not subclasses

[cobalt pewter]

[ashen warren]

boy thats milking one mechanic

[eternal escarp]

so rogue is even better

[hot zephyr]

Melee would have a gimmick if flasks didn't A. suck except for like, two. and B. didn't have their gimmick given to other classes (summon, rogue)

[tawny garden]

wait a sec, waaaaaaaaaaait a sec

[eternal escarp]

boy it doesnt mean its bad

[tawny garden]

what

[ashen warren]

yes philo we can't fix vanilla, too much effort for something hard and not worth it

[tawny garden]

@cobalt pewter did you just call "spam" a mechanic

[eternal escarp]

he called it a playstyle

[ashen warren]

it is a lifestyle

[cobalt pewter]

I'm just presenting playstyles

[ashen warren]

"playstyle"

[tawny garden]

ah

[eternal escarp]

in any way

stealth will prolly have the most replayability, if you dont count sub classes

[cobalt pewter]

Stealth's potential is probably why I'm hellbent on improving it

You rarely see classes that can be specced into doing burst, delayed damage

While every other classes (the fleshed out ones in vanilla at least) just spam to no end

[ashen warren]

check orchid's classes

you wont regret it

[eternal escarp]

bruh

[cobalt pewter]

I'm waiting for Gambler to be fully fleshed out

[ashen warren]

same, what do chips even do

[cobalt pewter]

Either way massive derail

Classic

Back to suggs

[ashen warren]

suggestions yes

[eternal escarp]

i still think that having stealth make rogue have 2 playstyles isnt milking the mechanic at all

but whatever lol

[frail mantle]

just a normal sugg disc conversation

[ashen warren]

yes 1 mechanic can have different playstyles

[tawny garden]

public class Burst
{
    // do burst delayed damage (no, I'm not writing actual code for this shitty one-off joke)
}

[cobalt pewter]

[ashen warren]

but stretching it to "with regen" and "without regen" is milking

[eternal escarp]

wdym by that?

[ashen warren]

#suggestions-discussion message

those are an example of a mechanic but with not so many playstyles

[frail mantle]

i wouldn't say that's milking

[eternal escarp]

1 playstyle is using stealth
the second is ignoring stealth

[ashen warren]

stretching is a better work true

[eternal escarp]

thats litterly just adding another styler

not stretching the mechanic

the mechanic is the second style

[ashen warren]

was mostly talking about the regen one

[eternal escarp]

stealth without regen? doesnt stealth regen always (as of now atleast)

[cobalt pewter]

Stealth playstyle rn is just stacking regen yes

Which makes it closer to spam by endgame

[eternal escarp]

~~because of 2 sheaths 6 silent modifiers ~~

byeah

so, i dont understand how rogue can be played with stealth without regen of said stealth

and even if, it sounds more like a challenge then a third playstyle

[ashen warren]

yeah thats fair

if i recall correctly suggesting a mechanic is a no

[cobalt pewter]

Depends on the scale? If it's heavy work, might be a don't

[ashen warren]

an entire mechanic

[cobalt pewter]

Might be a don't in scale, as well as potentially specific

[ashen warren]

i'm sure giving a base idea for a mechanic then giving examples is not being specific, or is it?

[frail mantle]

if by a mechanic you mean a mechanic for the entire game/a whole class/ something like that it's probably a Don't by scale

[ashen warren]

i see...

[tawny garden]

like you can't suggest something like stealth

[ashen warren]

what about something like this

i have an mechanic idea for bombs

[hot zephyr]

Most/all stealth strikes should provide other utility other than just damage to encourage not just building for stealth or spam, but for hybrid builds to manifest.

[tawny garden]

I still remember that time when somebody suggested Calamity 2

[hot zephyr]

God it was glorious.

"Yeah just add a few bosses and biomes no biggie."

[eternal escarp]

wait, someone suggested calamity 2?

[tawny garden]

yeah

[hot zephyr]

And the time:
"This mod sucks, change literally everything"

[eternal escarp]

lmaoo

the audacity

[tawny garden]

this

[ashen warren]

i wonder how that suggested fit the channel because of the massive size of his balls

[tawny garden]

[eternal escarp]

that was recently aswell? holy shit how did i miss that

[hot zephyr]

DM Dokuro in VC? (real)

[eternal escarp]

also subnautica server pog

[tawny garden]

that was on the eleventh of december

judging by the DM message that Ian sent me about thus shit

[hot zephyr]

I like how you muted every channel except for voting, posting, discussion and wiki

[eternal escarp]

holy shit my guy litterly suggested adding the nether into terraria

[tawny garden]

I also have bugs unmuted

[ashen warren]

philo is a suggestion god

[tawny garden]

and all announcements except #youtube-videos

[eternal escarp]

sad feedzuh noises

[tawny garden]

Rover is

I'm like...

third place?

[eternal escarp]

thats third from like

[tawny garden]

if I were to rank meself

[eternal escarp]

2500 ish

[ashen warren]

the manager of the channel is third place 😭

[hot zephyr]

[eternal escarp]

so its prtty good

[tawny garden]

[ashen warren]

feedzuh vs philo in suggestions

who would win

[hot zephyr]

Duel of the Fates

[eternal escarp]

duel of the gods

[frail mantle]

rover is suggestions GOD

[tawny garden]

I'll lose cuz I'm a lazy piece of shit

[eternal escarp]

the fight that will decide the fate of the world

[hot zephyr]

And then I arrive with a metal chair.

[ashen warren]

the lazy vs the moody

[tawny garden]

ah, no, I'm 4th

[eternal escarp]

our fate is decided, we are screwed

[frail mantle]

philo and feedza are more just suggestions managers

meanwhile me and ian are just random people who occasionally gibby_arrival.gif to discuss suggestions

[hot zephyr]

I post a suggestion semi frequently

[tawny garden]

just you wait till I get Wiki Administrator and a purple nick
muahahahah

[ashen warren]

and here i come once in a blue moon to suggest something radical

[hot zephyr]

@tawny garden https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIWHvPP0U64

[tawny garden]

we're

offtopic

[hot zephyr]

It's suggestion meta

So Spider is going to add the Book of Rogue?

[tawny garden]

(and the chance is bigger than 0)

[eternal escarp]

book of rogue?
am i missing something?

[ashen warren]

where is feedzuh when you need him?

need his help with a rogue suggestion

[hot zephyr]

You just gotta chant "Rogue stealth" three times in a bathroom mirror

[summer sentinel]

stay on topic about suggestions or I’ll destroy you people

[hot zephyr]

Uh so

About boohoo

[ashen warren]

so uh

[hot zephyr]

Let's discuss

[ashen warren]

suggestions

right?

[eternal escarp]

ah yes, boohoo

[tawny garden]

[hot zephyr]

First suggestion to hit 500 stars

[tawny garden]

I love y'all

[ashen warren]

500???????

WHAT

[summer sentinel]

We don’t need to analyze the universal essence of boohoo either afaik

[hot zephyr]

[ashen warren]

since when can suggestions reach 500?

[hot zephyr]

Quick, somebody find topic before Lauren launches me into the stratosphere

[tawny garden]

Demik's arrow sugg is the highest rn

[eternal escarp]

you are on your own, ian

[weak field]

Five hundred?????

[eternal escarp]

goodbye

[tawny garden]

at ~384

[weak field]

How????

[hot zephyr]

Sharpening station buff?

[tawny garden]

rage sugg

[hot zephyr]

The Shrineposting got 310

Uh this one

#suggestions-voting message

[tawny garden]

I could do it if I actually think of what will be a good rage replacement mechanic

[ashen warren]

do i have to get the sleep scheduled of everyone in this server to max my star gain?

[hot zephyr]

Is like the equivalent of saying "Add more weapons"

[ashen warren]

what if i buy their star vote with money and gifts

[hot zephyr]

Step 1. Be Ian
step 2. stars roll in

[ashen warren]

wow a good emote sug

[civic pond]

woah.

[tawny garden]

criticism

lmao the Mission Impossible soundtrack started to play right as I posted
how ironic

[hot zephyr]

Based Philo, finally made a suggestion

[tawny garden]

ikr

took me like what

5 months to sugg something

[hot zephyr]

I just think that rage should be to True Melee what Stealth is to rogue.

[tawny garden]

I hope the bot won't break

[hot zephyr]

Tie the gimmick to true melee weapons

[tawny garden]

cuz 1) the sugg is precisely 2000 chracters long and 2) it has an inline link in it

[hot zephyr]

Hopefully it doesn't go fucky

[tawny garden]

and inline links can only be parsed by bots

[sturdy geyser]

this is epic

good suggestion

10/10

[hot zephyr]

11/10?

Since tbh 90% of suggestions are just fluff

And have no real impact if they were actually added

[ashen warren]

i have a suggestion for a mechanic to the bomb rogue subclass

[hot zephyr]

are you going to suggest it or just talk about it here

[heady lichen]

it's always best to talk about it first

[ashen warren]

since my english is ass i'm gonna try to word it here before

[tawny garden]

my sugg might actually be leaning on the "too broad" don't

[eternal escarp]

bomb rogue subclass mechanic? interesting

[hot zephyr]

It's a necessary evil

[tawny garden]

but I feel like it's fine

[eternal escarp]

also i dont think its too broad

[heady lichen]

they're meant to be broad

[eternal escarp]

imo it shows you the point, which is what it should do imo

[heady lichen]

you want them to be broad

because the devs want feedback, not community-made reworks

[eternal escarp]

not fix the point nor say the point exist, it shows the point is there, and that its not pointu enough

i feel like its a fine suggestion but idk, thats my opinion lol

[dapper coral]

i don't think putting removal as an option is a good idea because that might lower its chances of being accepted

[tawny garden]

yeah, thought about that as well

Fab doesn't like to remove stuff

[heady lichen]

though tbh calamity could use a bit less content bloat

[eternal escarp]

it feels like some bloat is getting removed

although some still exists

[hot zephyr]

sad Heart Rapier noises

[eternal escarp]

and some are prolly going to be removed aswell afail

[hot zephyr]

The Calamity Melee Experience

[eternal escarp]

ah yes

[tawny garden]

[eternal escarp]

budget ranged mage

and sprinkles of summoner and rogue

[tawny garden]

lemme see what I can do to avoid the darn char limit

[eternal escarp]

make a document?

or notepad or smthn

idk

[tawny garden]

nobody reads those

[eternal escarp]

fair point

attaching an image is allowed?

u can make an image of what doesnt fit

[ashen warren]

unfinished work

[tawny garden]

there, removed funny link to @cobalt pewter's doc

[hot zephyr]

If only Rage and Adrenaline were actually.. usable together instead of fighting each other

Or if Rage wasn't literally inferior to adrenaline in every way
Or if Rage didn't require you to lose massive amounts of health

Or if Rage didn't award facetanking

[tawny garden]

Hm, the totality breakers sugg made its way into voting

Instead of making its way into a tester's hand

[toxic basalt]

@tawny garden Also don't forget that Rage is made redundant if you're trying to no-hit bosses

[zenith hazel]

did nobody say we were gonna test every single wep in the mod so it doesn't matter?

[frail mantle]

Seems so

[tawny garden]

Well, I didn't include that in the sugg because nohitting is a self-imposed challenge that not many people do, and also because my sugg is 2 characters away from the limit

And yeah, nobody told

[ashen warren]

no-hitting shouldn't be considered when it comes to these changes

[visual wigeon]

Did everyone just forget absolute rage?

[unique kite]

rage is a thing for true melee to be better as a class, don't think it's meant to be filled by other classes without special accessories (which suck)

because true melee can't get adrenaline reliably they need something to supplement, hence rage

[sand umbra]

Absolute Rage only procs at max Rage

the problem with this is that you don't get to max Rage in the first place

[tawny garden]

What, a debuff that randomly applies to you and gives you puny damage and HP increases only when you actually get max rage which is so damn rare?

[unique kite]

absolute rage is useless yes

fairly certain rage isn't even possible to fill normally within a single boss fight without setting up heart beforehand

it's only useful for true melee as a replacement for adren, it's not an allclass thing

[pine star]

it gives you damage increases?

[ashen warren]

like 5%

[unique kite]

only if you have heart of darkness

[pine star]

I thought it didn't unless you had Heart of Darkness

[unique kite]

absolute rage gives 5% hp only
with hod it gived 10% damage too

[ashen warren]

oh

lol

so it's that bad

[unique kite]

yea

[tawny garden]

Mhm

[sand umbra]

byeah, Absolute Rage is useless for two reasons:

1. the amount of times you will actually get to full Rage and stay there long enough to consistently get it is so pitifully low that you won't be able to use the buff at all in the vast majority of situations
   b) the only bonus it gives you (disregarding accs) is an HP increase, which is worthless when you already gave up vast sums of health to get the buff anyway

[unique kite]

not meant to be useful for most classes
it's just a side thing

absolute rage should be removed really

it's a debuff so it takes priority over your buffs if you ever get it somehow, and endgame you usually fill out buff slots

[sand umbra]

and for point B you're probably like "but what if they used a true melee weapon, Thomas"
and to that I say "you gave up vast sums of health by default if you were using a true melee weapon, that's how it works when you try to respect melee as a term in how you play"

[unique kite]

absolute rage is absolute doodoo yes

but rage itself is fine as a mechanic since it's pretty much exclusive to true melee

[sand umbra]

so even with true melee in mind AR's awful regardless

[unique kite]

not to mention true melee wants to proc rage and ar isn't 100% active lmao

it's awful

[sand umbra]

and Rage on the whole suffers heavily from the problem of true melee being a lot of things --- except consistently viable