suggestions-discussion

[hot zephyr]

Chaotic suggestions are generally big sweeping changes to the mod

They shift the balance of the mod significantly

Lawful suggestions use strict detail to enact a change

[pine star]

oh

[hot zephyr]

Feedzuh is true neutral because the sheer amount of suggestions make it difficult to place him

[pine star]

haha

[hot zephyr]

Demik is lawful neutral because he uses Da Rules to banish unworthy suggestions and to raise proper ones

[pine star]

oh

ok

[proper grail]

I'm curious as to what I am

[glass sentinel]

^^^

[heady storm]

Oh yeah, I meant on the chart.

But it’s off topic here now.

[proper grail]

Fair point with the eyes, that would help a lot

[golden narwhal]

I initially imagined this in vanilla, where the top eye just spams lasers when the other two eyes where killed
Not sure how that'd work in rev+

[cobalt pewter]

Or just keep the deathray timer as it is

But make top eye shoot things every time it's open

So somewhat like Prime situation, where the limb attacks are used for the relatively primary part of the boss

[golden narwhal]

That'd prolly be more balanced, but I like the top eye being open as a sign of "oh fuck"

[cobalt pewter]

Well it's subtle, but you can see dust on the top eye and the pupil of the eye itself facing the screen when it's about to do deathray

[golden narwhal]

ik

[cobalt pewter]

I'm personally heavily on making top eye vulnerable for longer because it's absolutely a fuck to do ML on stealth rogue because of the eye only having an extremely smol amount of time to be vulnerable

[crimson pecan]

the main benefit would be that you aren't waiting as long for the boss to become vulnerable

[golden narwhal]

Ye

[crimson pecan]

waiting for stuff like that is almost always terrible boss design to begin with, nothing new for terraria lmao

[cobalt pewter]

[golden narwhal]

I like the top eye being something you wait for, until it just drags out the fight ofc hence the sugg

[cobalt pewter]

Just making it open more often with similar deathray timer the more true eyes are out are fine imo

Byeah

[sleek hornet]

last sugg sounds like something out of fargo's mod

[split stag]

It would look hella cool though. Imagine dog phase 2, but with solid lines instead of laser shots.

[tawny garden]

That would look weird

[split stag]

I think it would look good

[tawny garden]

No

It won't

At least not with laser beams

[split stag]

Also the evolution pretty much gives a 50% DR vs DoG, and Arcanum of the Void gives 15%. Making it just damage beams would make that less stupid.

Especially once you get the head dodging down.

[sand umbra]

a sugg regulars alignment chart with me being lawful evil is just about the best thing I could've possibly returned to

I appreciate this

[earnest raptor]

Now it should be correct.

[sand umbra]

who are you again

[tawny garden]

should be retired good, retired neutral and retired evil

but all three of these categories of people are forgotten

so boohoo

[cobalt pewter]

I think I've tried suggesting this last sugg sometime ago

Lemme see

[earnest raptor]

The legend, who have killed :ew:, made Demonic Spiders mode and was banned from #suggestions-voting for poor grammar.

[tawny garden]

:ew:

[earnest raptor]

[earnest raptor]

It was a face of Brimmy, that asked concern.

The reason for deletion was my usage of emoij in one way, to be exact, to mark reasoning of suggestion.

I have inspired dozens of people in those age.

[frail mantle]

i don't think you alone got :ew: deleted

you might've gotten it renamed but it was probably deleted cause, like, five people used it

[cobalt pewter]

I saw Over Heaven doe

Holy shit

jojo reference

[tawny garden]

five people used it
: literally used only by me and Rover once every three months

[frail mantle]

8,4k uses throughout the server's history says otherwise

[tawny garden]

that's all a conspiracy

[hollow shell]

(damn, I didn't make it onto the alignment chart)

[cobalt pewter]

Wit a sec

[hollow shell]

At least I made it onto the one in #general-talk

[hollow shell]

That's better.

[cobalt pewter]

@simple fog jungle seeds

[tawny garden]

lmao

[simple fog]

It got approved

Finally jungle seed haven

[earnest cape]

jungle seeds

181 stars getting close

[frail mantle]

Meanwhile I watch from afar

[tawny garden]

we also need a wiki alignment chart

---

what I don't understand about the last sugg

how can laser beams be stationary

that makes no sense

[simple fog]

I think they mean the beams spawn on the screen and stay there, then you dodge them and they expire which is......awkward

[tawny garden]

that's not even dodging

if they just

appear

[simple fog]

Well they appear there, you dodge the maze for say 5 seconds and then go on

it's still awkward though

[serene fox]

wdym by awkward

[tawny garden]

imagine a projectile just being stuck to the screen

[simple fog]

Dodging stationary laser wall would be awkward in respect to the current fight's laser beam walls nor does it need change

[tawny garden]

also

This would give these attacks more visual feedback
in which way

how

[serene fox]

The only thing I don't like about it is how it prevents you from dodging another way

I don't

see how that's beneficial

variety in how you can dodge is good

it's not like running invalidates the attack anyway

[hollow shell]

I assume it would only be "stationary" for half a second or less, is what they're envisioning

A quick blast of beam

before disappearing

[tawny garden]

should be in the sugg

[hollow shell]

@split stag ^ This could be clearer.

[crude geode]

@delicate willow contact a tester for this, so they can test it themselves and have it go straight to dev

[heady storm]

Oh look.

[tawny garden]

nerf suggs are better just given straight to testers tbh

because experience and common sense tells me that people don't like nerfs and therefore won't star the nerf suggs

[heady storm]

Rebalance suggestions.**

[tawny garden]

I think I've seen only one nerf sugg that had reached the req

"nerf the Relic of Ruins"

back when it was fuck shit OP due to a bug

[heady storm]

Axe of Purity:
Cryogen: 3:11 (845 average).
Aquatic Scourge: 1:07 (4534 average, 11457 max).
Brimstone Elemental: 3:58 (903 average).
The Destroyer: 4:25 (1908 average).

Aquatic Scourge is the only big concern, but honestly mechs also seem really fat.

[tawny garden]

what are the intended kill times?

[heady storm]

Cryogen is 3 minutes, Aquatic Scourge is 2 minutes, Brimstone Elemental is 3 minutes, The Destroyer is 3 minutes.

[tawny garden]

cool

[heady storm]

Byeah, maybe pierce damage reduction to see fit.

[tawny garden]

but it sucks on destroyer already

[frail mantle]

make AS resist it a bit or something

[heady storm]

So give AS more pierce resistance to it.

@delicate willow settled, your suggestion is to be removed.

[earnest raptor]

Give AS more pierce resistance at all.

Aquatic scourge is a lot easier than destroyer because it doesn't resist pierce even in Death.

[frail mantle]

it does have pierce resist

[crude geode]

Mfw if something pierces infinitely, it does more damage than something that pierces 3 times

[tawny garden]

balancing™️

[cobalt pewter]

Just balance inf piercing projectiles like 1.4.1 jester

Lose a % of dmg with every pierce

[zealous ridge]

Yeah AS needs way more infinite pierce resist

50% reduction doesn’t sound like enough

he’s easy as heck to line up because he just follows you

That’s ultimately what it comes down to

[cobalt pewter]

I'll probably sugg to make inf pierce resist work differently, by making enemies with it take less dmg on subsequent hits with the exact same projectile

Uh

[zealous ridge]

in any case I don’t think the boss is super interesting so for me I may be the kind of person to ask to make the fight less prone to just a worm chase fest

[cobalt pewter]

@final rock details?

[final rock]

lemme edit

[zealous ridge]

yea ur gonna need details for that

because this is a debate and a half

[final rock]

i suck at explaining

[tawny garden]

uhh

saved this sugg

and uhhhhhh

I thought RoD already decreases damage

[sharp prism]

no

[tawny garden]

[[Chaos State]]

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.gamepedia.com/Chaos_State

[tawny garden]

ahhhhhh

[zealous ridge]

Used to be a thing

During the age of rod balancing

[tawny garden]

Player recieved 50% more damage

[zealous ridge]

If that’s even a thing

I don’t know if making it a damage nerf after being used would be amazing, but hmm

It would certainly make it more of a desision to use it or not

so it accomplishes it’s goal to a degree

I’m thinking on how others would feel, though

[crude geode]

Does RoD really need to be nerfed even more?

[steel sierra]

@bold wave i dont think fabsol would like this sugg #general-talk message

[golden narwhal]

not even a challenge in the slightest
That's a huge exaggeration

[zealous ridge]

fabsol has some wacky opinions, but alright

what things get in go through him

[crude geode]

What Asian man said

Provi lasers basically require RoD, or insanely good movement. As well as moon lord laser, to a lesser degree.

[zealous ridge]

I can’t say I need rod for either of them

[simple fog]

Please don't bring back the 25% more damage intake when in chaos state in rev+ mode

[zealous ridge]

but it’s a help, to be sure

[golden narwhal]

Dodging one attack every 10 seconds does not trivialise a boss fight if they attack 6 more times in that frame

[serene fox]

why was that removed again

[tawny garden]

I'd rather have that then not being able to teleport at all

[craggy stratus]

RoD helps with everything, but is never required

[tawny garden]

especially when not in a bossfight

[zealous ridge]

people get up in arms about this, as well

Any suggestions about rod are bound to be discussed for a while

[crude geode]

25% more damage intake while on a cooldown for something meant to be helpful is just kinda...counter intuitive

[serene fox]

idk it seems balanced

[zealous ridge]

it seems like the “don’t get hit” player’s solution

[serene fox]

.

[zealous ridge]

because even if they take more damage, if the rod lets them dodge a hit or more then the dr reduction won’t matter

[bold wave]

The link won't load

[tawny garden]

go to a PC

[steel sierra]

Fabsol said "I actually find it really cool that people can go the entire Calamity playthrough without ever visiting the abyss"

[zealous ridge]

it’s greater punishment for failing even with rod, but not getting hit at all is far better than taking less damage from hits that would have hit you without a teleport

[craggy stratus]

The link works on phone too

[bold wave]

Lol you don't need Reaper Teeth to progress

[sharp prism]

i actually remember that convo

[simple fog]

II don't know why it was removed, I believe it was just due to it being unneeded and a little @serene fox
I rarely use rod in any boss fights in calamity, since I don't find it ever required as it shoudl be

[zealous ridge]

Sure, it isn’t required

[sharp prism]

i also realized im a idiot for forgetting fishing exists

[zealous ridge]

but you’ve got to balance around it

[sharp prism]

^

[crude geode]

you act like calamity hasn’t made changes to make it more balanced

[zealous ridge]

well, that’s not my intent

the current solution, in any case, is unsatisfactory

Cause being a traversal tool, the cooldown is actually quite annoying

[bold wave]

If the post-polter abyss weapons don't drop from crates, why should Reaper Teeth before even killing a Reaper Shark?

[simple fog]

I didn't deny it needs a balance, the chaos state can just last longer then, 25% more incr dmg intake needn't occur though

[cobalt pewter]

Honestly? I kinda wanna see some powerful stuff drop at a later stage in crates

[serene fox]

(the cd isn't nerfed outside of combat now)

[zealous ridge]

I agree I don’t think dr reduction would be good

wdym

[cobalt pewter]

So to take an example, Reaper Tooth can only be dropped in crates post-DoG

[serene fox]

as in

the nerf only applies in boss fights now

[zealous ridge]

as in, no using it until cd is down?

[serene fox]

ah you mean that

[zealous ridge]

yes, that’s what I was getting at

[serene fox]

you still can't use it during the cd yeah

although the cd isn't as long outside of combat

[zealous ridge]

ofc

[simple fog]

the cd outside of fights is fine, in fights it could be upped to 20, just throwing out an idea

[zealous ridge]

mmm

[crude geode]

@final rock You should prolly change your title to “Nerf Rod of Discord”. Also trivializing boss fights is kind of an overstatement.

[cobalt pewter]

So you can still get stuff through crates, but later in the game to emphasize on the role of fishing as an alternative to farming

[simple fog]

Rod is that little annoying thing that shouldn't need balance but it does because vanilla thought it was a fantastic idea

[cobalt pewter]

Just my take on it ig

[zealous ridge]

I could see the cd being shorter if the debuff was something you really didn’t want

As in, 10 seconds could stay around

20 seconds feels super long, is all

1/3 of a potion cd

[crude geode]

1/6th of a normal Magic Power pot
Indeed

[zealous ridge]

which, is a fine cooldown in any case, your idea is valid here

what came to mind for me, is a damage over time effect applied by chaos state which does more damage at the beginning of it’s duration

and i want to ask how you guys would feel about that

[steel sierra]

i dont think you should be punished for using the rod

[crude geode]

^

[zealous ridge]

that’s broad, can you be more specific

because that implies there should be no cooldown

“Not punished”

[crude geode]

taking extra damage/having a dot applied is what I think

[steel sierra]

any debuff, including damage, should not be applied to the player for usiing the rod

[crude geode]

You don’t have health drained from firing a lifesteal weapon (at least not good ones.)

[zealous ridge]

...?

but it always does

Chaos state

[steel sierra]

chaos state works a bit differently

[zealous ridge]

okay, you mean a debuff that affects your stats outside of teles?

[crude geode]

It’s less of a debuff tbh and more of a built in use time.

[steel sierra]

its not really a debuff in the normal sense because it does not inflict anything onto the player

[zealous ridge]

well it does but I think I know what you mean

[cobalt pewter]

Just say "don't further punish RoD use"

[zealous ridge]

just it has no effects outside of rod

or teleports

[final rock]

using rod should make you unable to attack for 2-3 seconds after use

on reveangence+

[crude geode]

What

[final rock]

no attacking

[steel sierra]

thats another arbitrary punishment

[final rock]

its now illegal

yeah nvm doesnt make sense

forget that

[crude geode]

Nerf the cooldown, if you’re going to nerf RoD.

[steel sierra]

the current chaos state works because it essentially says "hey play the game as though you don't have the rod for a bit." it just forces you to play normally

[cobalt pewter]

5 minute Chaos State

[crude geode]

You shouldn’t be punished for using a tool you have at your disposal. It’d be like having a defense hit after drinking a health pot.

[final rock]

hm

rod should be nerfed in rev+ but not below rev

i think it should have a 33% increased cooldown

in rev and a 50% increased cooldown in death

[sharp prism]

doing that makes the game unfair instead of difficult

[crude geode]

If the player goes through the effort of micromanaging
-their health
-boss attacks
-where their character is
-where their cursor is
I think they should be rewarded, and RoD is a fine reward.

[zealous ridge]

character and cursor position are a micromanagement problem?

[final rock]

^^^

[zealous ridge]

uh... alright

[steel sierra]

anyways, im pretty sure nobody actually tries to optimize rod use by popping it every 10 seconds. most people use it to get out of especially bad situations. its not enough to justify anymore changes

[zealous ridge]

that sounds like an extreme case, yes

[crude geode]

When combined with everything else in a boss fight, ocassionally

[cobalt pewter]

Then Relic of Convergence shouldn't slow you down as well?

[crude geode]

Honestly, yes, with how slow it heals you, and with the fact you’re not using a weapon (mostly, summoner lol)

[steel sierra]

relic of convergence just seems bad.

[zealous ridge]

maybe but I don’t agree they’re something worth rewarding

[cobalt pewter]

The majority don't agree then, because out of 2 Convergence suggs, none of them ever got delivered

[crude geode]

Honestly, I disagree heavily with the suggestion’s wording, as it implies that all bosses are a cake walk with RoD.

[zealous ridge]

They arent, yeah

[crude geode]

It makes them easier, but it in no way makes them easy fights.

@final rock

[frail mantle]

I don’t think a single fight gets trivialized bu the funny pink stick

[final rock]

im bad at explaining ngl

if someone can reword it better go ahead

[frail mantle]

Except for the obvious ones like pre-HM bosses

[final rock]

my point still stands that polter is trivialized by rod

make a tunnel

walk back and forth

rod when u get to end

[zealous ridge]

damn

[crude geode]

That’s les a problem of rod and more of Polter.

[zealous ridge]

Video, then?

[final rock]

yes

[zealous ridge]

I mean it would be an issue either way

[cobalt pewter]

This is already cheese by itself

[crude geode]

^

[cobalt pewter]

RoD just adds convenience with the cheese

[crude geode]

Teleporters could do the same thing.

[final rock]

https://youtu.be/JKlepEmquHM

[zealous ridge]

technically speaking teles do the same, yes

[steel sierra]

cheesing bosses is always optional. the fact that cheese exists doesn't mean it has to be removed

[final rock]

its a cheese yes

[crude geode]

so why is it grounds for RoD to be nerfed?

[final rock]

its not

but

im just saying

you could do it

[crude geode]

...just saying you could nerf RoD?

Or that you could cheese Polter.

[final rock]

just saying you can do it with rod

[steel sierra]

you can also do it with vanilla teleporters and portal gun. nerf them too then

[final rock]

^^^

jk

[crude geode]

...so because you can cheese a boss thanks to RoD, you want RoD nerfed?

[final rock]

no

sd udfbytg eryfd hjierwfdsc ji gjewrtfdc

[crude geode]

Then why should Rod of Discord be nerfed?

[final rock]

because

uh

[steel sierra]

are you saying that rod feels like cheese, thus it needs a nerf?

[final rock]

sufre

suire

siure

sure

[crude geode]

Not sure how to do that, besides literally just removing the item/changing it entirely.

[steel sierra]

also, nerfing it doesn't really remove the cheese

all teleporters will always have cheese

[crude geode]

If it feels like cheese to you, don’t use it.

[zealous ridge]

if you really want to abuse the fuck out of it then it could feel unfair to beat a boss that way

But you have to be really dedicated

is the thing

[crude geode]

^^^

[final rock]

forget my point

[zealous ridge]

so not a majority of people will

[crude geode]

You can also just...not use it, if it bothers you that much

[final rock]

okay okay o ipowsdhyuheghdfhuj hewdfvij hjvc; '

[zealous ridge]

yeah ok but I don’t think that’s grounds to defend it from nerfs

I don’t have to use best weapon but that doesn’t mean it’s in a good state

[crude geode]

Yes but in this case supposedly the reasoning is it “feels cheesey”, similar to teleporters/current tunnel Polter. Simple solution would be to avoid using it.

[earnest cape]

bosses will always have flaws lol you can't expect devs to patch out everything

[zealous ridge]

in the case of exploiting how bosses and items work, you shouldn’t balance every thing out yeah

I don’t think it’s good enough grounds to nerf

If you’re gonna ask for something like this you need to dive in, metaphorically speaking

You need good points

which this suggestion lacks

and if you don’t have any ideas, that’s fine, maybe it just doesn’t need changing, maybe it’s hard to say what you dislike about it

[crude geode]

It’d be like asking to nerf bonking with “it trivializes dash phases”

[zealous ridge]

(For the record, more cd and increased damage taken have both somewhat been discussed and I don’t think we agree they’re good solutions, or that they’re needed at all)

ehh

[earnest cape]

i agree with cursed being tbh

[cobalt pewter]

totally not joking but make rod and nr channeled in order to be able to tp

[zealous ridge]

Hard to compare that to rod for me, but ok

[craggy stratus]

channeled tp is

[zealous ridge]

I’d be okay with that but I don’t know if anyone else would

it seems like something that a lot would complain about

I know you said it somewhat sarcastically

I think...

[pine star]

wtf do you mean by channeled?

[cobalt pewter]

I finally made someone question whether what I said is sarcasm

[cobalt pewter]

Take Relic of Convergence

[zealous ridge]

I’d imagine it means spending a second or two charging up the teleport

before you actually go there

[cobalt pewter]

Something around that for channel

[zealous ridge]

that would be a long wait time

and would the cooldown be on top of this?

[cobalt pewter]

are we seriously discussing this btw

kekw

[zealous ridge]

When you say relic, I think it also slows the player the fuck down

[cobalt pewter]

No, just the channel mechanic

[zealous ridge]

yeah ok

What are we discussing

[cobalt pewter]

Idk

[craggy stratus]

nerfing rod

[zealous ridge]

I don’t... what

[cobalt pewter]

Back to suggs?

I actually had something for the crate sugg

[zealous ridge]

well I... what? I thought we were talking about Suggs

Oh okay, yea we can move on

go ahead, with the crate thing

[pine star]

oh

Interesting

[cobalt pewter]

Essentially kinda encouraging crates as a method of farming instead of a way to skip engagements by making the crate loot available later than it usually should

e.g. Reaper Tooth in Abyssal Crates post-DoG, even though it's post-polter in general

[earnest cape]

i mean isn't the whole point of getting reaper tooth in abyssal crate is for convinience

let me pull up the wiki real quick

[zealous ridge]

grinding reapers is annoying as hell

so it’s a convenience thing

[pine star]

It wasn't annoying for me

[earnest cape]

lmao you get more reaper tooth from crates than sharks

[pine star]

Though admittedly, I was using a zerg

[earnest cape]

[zealous ridge]

depends on how much you invest in breathing

[earnest cape]

that's hilarious

[pine star]

[zealous ridge]

LOL REALLY

[earnest cape]

5-10 from crates and 3-4 from sharks

which is

[zealous ridge]

“So let’s just put all the teeth in crates and not in the enemy that drops them”

[earnest cape]

hmm-ing

heh

[serene turtle]

ok

[cobalt pewter]

Oh yeah that's dumb

[zealous ridge]

flip them around plz

[cobalt pewter]

@bold wave maybe focus on this instead?

[earnest cape]

it's REALLY dumb

[pine star]

yep

[cobalt pewter]

Make Reaper Teeth infinitely rarer from crates

[earnest cape]

^

was about to say that

[steel sierra]

whos the guy that killed all the reaper sharks to fill the crates

[earnest cape]

and buff the amount of teeth you get from reaper sharks

[zealous ridge]

5-10 from boss, like 1-2 rarely from crates

[earnest cape]

cause 3-4 from a tough and rare-ish enemy is dumb

ye

[zealous ridge]

consider you have early bloom rod

and the best bait

and basically all of the fishing acc

[crude geode]

That’s kinda how they are already, just with added not having to mine/farm.

[steel sierra]

as someone who uses the crates for the teeth, can say that it is broken

[foggy plover]

crates already are getting nerfed

[cobalt pewter]

pog!

[earnest cape]

pog

[pine star]

great

[zealous ridge]

How so?-

[foggy plover]

I don't remember the specifics, pretty sure it's just general drop rate decreases

[zealous ridge]

mm

alright

[earnest cape]

[pine star]

[zealous ridge]

Very nice

[earnest cape]

aqua I see you

[unreal viper]

can you still avoid miniboss encounters?

[crude geode]

Depends on what drops specifically tbh, cuz some things deserve nerfs, others really don’t.

[zealous ridge]

yes

[crude geode]

galactica singularities lol

[pine star]

wait those can be found in crates

[zealous ridge]

but we don’t even know the numbers anyways so nothing to really comment on

[earnest cape]

the arctus astroidean doesn't need a drop nerf imo

[cobalt pewter]

Sky Crates post ML

[zealous ridge]

yea galactica from sky crates right

[earnest cape]

ye

1-3?

[cobalt pewter]

This is also what I was saying about reaper teeth earlier

[zealous ridge]

(Kind of funny)

[cobalt pewter]

Technically fragments are available post cultist

[zealous ridge]

(Lunar crate...... ????)

[cobalt pewter]

But they can be fished out pML

[earnest cape]

ah 25% chance to get 5-10 galactica singularity

[cobalt pewter]

Meanwhile you can get Reaper Tooth from crates as soon as you killed Polter, at a stupidly higher amount no less

[crude geode]

You also can get all the astral weapons post Astrum aureus what’s your point

It’s incredible variable across the game

[zealous ridge]

that’s weapons

Firstly those are weapons with relatively high drop chances anyways

[earnest cape]

the point is you can get more reaper tooth from crates rather than the mini-boss you kill to get them

[zealous ridge]

both methods are easy and get you the same yield generally

[earnest cape]

and you get them with way less effort

you just need luck and that's it

[zealous ridge]

fucking reapers are out of the way and you can just use crates and it will always be better

literally almost always

[crude geode]

I’m not arguing about that, I’m arguing against Feedzuh’s desires

I totally agree reaper teeth drops should be nerfed.

[zealous ridge]

I don’t know what you mean

That’s what his desires are..?

An example, at least

[crude geode]

He wants things to only be obtainable after they become really useful, such as reaper teeth post dog. You don’t have any use for them then.

[earnest cape]

hmm? which one?

[crude geode]

Besides haedopelagic echo.

[earnest cape]

reaper tooth post dog is asking too much imo

[zealous ridge]

probably? Yeah

Majority of crafts are pre dog

[earnest cape]

ALL crafts are pre dog

[zealous ridge]

Hadopelagic

[earnest cape]

using reaper tooth that is

[crude geode]

Nope

Haedopelagic

[zealous ridge]

yep

[earnest cape]

i mean tbf, who uses hadopelagic

[crude geode]

Me

[earnest cape]

I heard it's good

[zealous ridge]

the only example, mind you

but it is one

[earnest cape]

and

[crude geode]

Byech

I don’t mind things being fishable immediately after they become available tbh.

[earnest cape]

still yeah making it post dog is pretty bad

[crude geode]

Gives alternate way of obtaining it.

[earnest cape]

yeh

[zealous ridge]

the yield is still overclocked

but yes

[crude geode]

Post cultist fragments is something I wouldn’t be opposed to tbfh.

But it’s not necessary since Astrum Deus also works

[zealous ridge]

why not just pre cultist fragments

[earnest cape]

it also makes it so it's consistent with other stuff like you can get astral ore from astral crates after deus, galactica singularity from sky crates post moon lord, etc

[zealous ridge]

Or pre golem

[crude geode]

Pre golem would be kinda stupid

[zealous ridge]

(It’s already a thing because of tablet lol)

[crude geode]

yeah but you have to intentionally skip golem then

[zealous ridge]

it’s unrelated anyways

[crude geode]

Yeah

[zealous ridge]

yeah, a different discussion

one I wish to have but one I have to build up

not easy to just segue into

[crude geode]

Frankly I like the fact that fishing crates provides alternatives to farming things like Astrum aureus weapon drops

[earnest cape]

same

never used it but hey it's there

[crude geode]

It gives fishing additional things without flooding potions

[zealous ridge]

how effective is fishing for souls, by the way?

[crude geode]

uhhhhh dunno off the top of my head

[earnest cape]

25% to get 5-10 ectoplasm

at that point you're better off just farming them manually from enemies

[steel sierra]

not very good

[zealous ridge]

souls, not plasm

[earnest cape]

o

[steel sierra]

king slime farming is far better

[crude geode]

the great thing about fishing is that you can do it while killing enemies if you’re summoner

[zealous ridge]

that is removed in 1.4, but alright

Fair for this update

[earnest cape]

defiled crate(hardmode corruption) gives 2-5 souls of nigth with a 50% chance of even getting them

[zealous ridge]

mhm

[earnest cape]

so an average of 3 souls

[steel sierra]

the soul fish only give 2-5 souls

[earnest cape]

whihc is fucking terrible

[zealous ridge]

I just mean, with the transition to 1.4 ks wouldn’t be strat anymore

[crude geode]

Yes but future content

[zealous ridge]

souls only give 2-5

[earnest cape]

just regularly farming enemies as intended is better

in 1.4 that is

[zealous ridge]

Yes but I think it’s worth discussing

[crude geode]

Summoner:

[earnest cape]

in vanilla I think farming KS is still much better

[zealous ridge]

I’m not going to suggest anything

[steel sierra]

zerg also exists, so fishing is still obsolete

[earnest cape]

Just kill them lul xd

[zealous ridge]

again 1.4 ks doesn’t drop souls

it literally doesn’t work

[crude geode]

(yes but also fish at the same time, double task.)

[earnest cape]

mmm

mm

imagine doing summoner

[zealous ridge]

amazing response

[earnest cape]

thank you

[crude geode]

Fantastic

Truly I have been defeated as a mage main

[zealous ridge]

how to socalize

[crude geode]

^^

[zealous ridge]

Anyways

[crude geode]

Fishing kinda pog, reaper teeth drop from crates not pog, rod Weirdchamp

[zealous ridge]

ok

[ashen warren]

alright this may be off topic but I have played hollow knight and im wondering if the calamity devs may have some ideas for boss attacks to take inspiration from that game

like since scal(&yharhar) is the only boss with a fixed confined space we could add more dynamic like how hollow knight does in limited arena spaces

ok an example being these types of telegraphs on the ground before the actual projectile comes out

[winter hazel]

Who wants DoGs best attacks to like completely stop, kinda weird

[wary oasis]

lmao what?

[proud field]

Do you think there should be post moonlord whips for summoners? What kind of effects should they have? I've found that playing Calamity summoner usually entails spraying debuffs from classless weapons while dodging and letting my minions do most of the work.

[frail mantle]

calamity is gonna tackle whips when tMod for 1.4 drops

and i think i remember someone mentioning they were gonna add some Calamity whips? not sure

[zealous ridge]

the way I see it, whips should be buff utilities for minions

They should have bad or no damage, and would give effects to minions

This would be how I focus whip balance

I could see calamity just molding summoner to be weird melee with funny familiars

[crystal iron]

About the rod of discord Sugg I kind of disagree, cuz while u can rod out of the attacks it requires some sort of skill, u need to have somewhat quick reaction time and u need to focus on where ur teleporting

[zealous ridge]

but I would dislike it

it’s still up?

Hmm

that’s just me misremembering

we had discussed, a lot of people spoke out against another nerf

[crystal iron]

Also she's over exaggerating, it's definitely less than 90% and it does not make bosses easy

[cobalt pewter]

Whip minions to make them stronger let's go animal abuse

[zealous ridge]

no

not what I meant

Flinx fur is bad enough

no animal abuse :[

more like, whip enemies to make minions stronger

[craggy stratus]

peta gonna rises from their grave

[pine star]

Calamitamini: Are we all jokes to you?

[hot zephyr]

Suggest it, coward

[zealous ridge]

Horrible

Actually do not

[pine star]

Are you going to trust the guy who admits he's neutral evil?

[eternal escarp]

yes

[zealous ridge]

what

I don’t know what that has to do with anything

[zealous ridge]

wow Thats Cool But Why

[cobalt pewter]

jungle seeds

[zealous ridge]

horrid

[tawny garden]

jungle seeds

[zealous ridge]

Anyways no whipping minions

[hot zephyr]

@simple fog Jungle seeds

[tawny garden]

smh she was already pinged for this

[zealous ridge]

[sharp prism]

wha

[tawny garden]

I guess Providab and I will stand in the shadows

[zealous ridge]

Ok

[frail mantle]

[tawny garden]

except I don'r have nitro

[zealous ridge]

Yea bro it’s really unfortunate that you’re not on the alignment chart for random ass people In suggestions

[sharp prism]

philo is put philo in

[zealous ridge]

@ashen warren wrong channel?

Oh wait

[sharp prism]

dude

[ashen warren]

Idk how to make stuff bold 😦

[zealous ridge]

Now there’s a title, sorry

[tawny garden]

no, I think he might have something, but

[sharp prism]

you literally go to the mod browser

and type "Calamity Mod(No Music)"

[zealous ridge]

I think it’s pretty simple, yeah

[tawny garden]

you don't even have to type anything

Calamity is like

[sleek girder]

it's the top mod

[tawny garden]

at the very top

[sharp prism]

then you type "Calamity Mod Music"

[sleek girder]

depending on how you have it sorted

[zealous ridge]

it’s like at the top of popular lol

[ashen warren]

Having never nodded terraria and not even knowing what tModLoader is it took me about 30 mins to get an answer

[zealous ridge]

Fuck really?

[ashen warren]

Yeah it’s not accessible at all for new modders

[zealous ridge]

That might just be a matter of looking in the wrong places

[sharp prism]

understandable, but still quite simple

[zealous ridge]

If anything is really easy now

[ashen warren]

I was looking all over the wiki for a download link or a download tutorial

[zealous ridge]

You just need to download the dlc

[pine star]

oh

[tawny garden]

Calamity isn't a separate thing

[zealous ridge]

and then in-game it’s there

[pine star]

You were just looking in the wrong places

[ashen warren]

I had to redownload discord and look through this

[pine star]

You just needed to download tModLoader

And then search "calamity"

[ashen warren]

That’s my point though there should be something on the wiki to help newer players

How was I supposed to know that having never nodded the game before

[tawny garden]

there is also a download link on the Main Page

for tML and Calamity

so uh

[sleek girder]

anyway yeah yharon aggro annoying

[zealous ridge]

it’s accessible through steam now

[ashen warren]

Wait that only shows up if I view on mobile

Not on desktop

Maybe it gets overlapped when using Adblock?

[pine star]

It's fixed next update

[zealous ridge]

so it should be simple to find with just steam

[ashen warren]

Again, would be nice to get pointed to steam and not have to guess

[sleek girder]

ah okay

[zealous ridge]

Okay

I thought there was an implication that it was on steam

[sleek girder]

maybe they could put it in #info or something...

[zealous ridge]

But if there was a small thing on the front page “download tmodloader on steam!” That would be okay and non intrusive

[ashen warren]

But then what about people without discord, they still won’t be able to find it

[zealous ridge]

It’s an odd suggestion, it feels like it would be better to bring up in wiki

[sleek girder]

well how the fuck would you tell them

[ashen warren]

I think this is the best option, just a little line of text, maybe with a hyperlink to the steam store page

[sleek girder]

they'd just look it up

[sharp prism]

yeah a wiki sugg goes in #wiki-discussion

[eternal escarp]

i mean, if people dont have discord, just google, surely theres an answer online

[sharp prism]

^

[zealous ridge]

Idk if he has the wiki discussion role

So

[ashen warren]

I did, I got taken to the wiki, which didn’t have a link

[zealous ridge]

Oh wait is that removed

[sharp prism]

#wiki-discussion is public

[zealous ridge]

wiki role

[sharp prism]

yeha

[zealous ridge]

Ah

okay

my mistake

[ashen warren]

Wait I didn’t even see that channel sorry guys

It’s buried way below voice channels my bad

[eternal escarp]

well i googled it now

[zealous ridge]

You can move discussion there, yes

[eternal escarp]

the top "instruction" is how to download via zips, so ig he has a point

[zealous ridge]

I’d delete suggestion and talk about it in wiki channels, dnd

dunno if it needs to be a suggestion because it’s not for the mod or the discord directly

[eternal escarp]

yeah, wiki discuss is proly the better place for this

[sharp prism]

you actually did it ian

:why:

[hot zephyr]

[zealous ridge]

What

Oh shit

[hot zephyr]

For when you just need to ask "why"

[zealous ridge]

not even a fucking explanation

I mean, a picture says a thousand words

[sharp prism]

you dont need one for emote requests

[hot zephyr]

Do emojis need explanations? It speaks for itself.

[sharp prism]

iirc

[zealous ridge]

I think it’s just funny

he’s just staring at you

[distant gyro]

that can't go through the bot

[zealous ridge]

lol

[hot zephyr]

Bot can't post images?

[zealous ridge]

I don’t think it can, no...?

[distant gyro]

No, the caption

[zealous ridge]

or it posts them separately

[distant gyro]

it will turn into something like Add the why emote, 788450442412949505.

[sharp prism]

sadge

[distant gyro]

because it extracts the emote ID into string

[zealous ridge]

Ah the emote doesn’t save?

[hot zephyr]

If you add it to the server before the bot brings it to voting, it'll work

[zealous ridge]

just implement my suggestion

before it is voted

[craggy stratus]

sneaky ian

[sharp prism]

⭐

[distant gyro]

also I think an explanation is still needed by rule because

the unspoken rule of suggestions is that assume everyone has the mental capacity of a peanut

[zealous ridge]

cool

[distant gyro]

just a few lines will do

[zealous ridge]

just say “it is a good emote, look at this guy”

[sharp prism]

just put "(real)" as the description

[zealous ridge]

Get real

[distant gyro]

it's nothing like a thomas tantrum-mixed essay

[zealous ridge]

[hot zephyr]

That good enough?

[zealous ridge]

Would you have to separate the first sentence into the title or nah

[sharp prism]

Add the why emote. For when you need to ask "why" at such a high degree

this is filler text so the bot doesnt break

---

do something like that

[sand umbra]

oi

[pine star]

I don't think your essays are actually angry

They're more exasperated

[sand umbra]

byeah
I'm not mad

like genuinely I'm not mad

exasperated is a better term for describing how I feel in a lot of my suggs (and in general, to be frank)

[pine star]

yeah

Like some of your suggs seem like "WTF? why does this still exist/still be so boring?"

[tawny garden]

Good, cats

[pine star]

yep

[buoyant idol]

Sorry to interrupt, but I just noticed a suggestion that reached 200 stars. It was posted on the 3rd and reached the requirement on the 13th.

[cobalt pewter]

Don't worry, it'll be delivered eventually

[buoyant idol]

Ok

[sharp prism]

most spears have proj's

[cobalt pewter]

Proboscis:

[sharp prism]

i mean internally they all do

[buoyant idol]

Okay now I just realized I kinda ignored them for boss drops...

Man I need to study more before posting

I was more thinking like an auric tier spear or just being able to use the vanilla ones as if they were useful.

[cobalt pewter]

Now that spear tips are mentioned

I kinda hate it for some reason

After a quick read

[pine star]

IMO most Calam spears are fine

[unreal viper]

spear tip + talonitus = death

[hot zephyr]

sad nadir noises

[gray nebula]

what even are spear tips

[buoyant idol]

They are from thorium

They shoot a spear tip when you w=swing a spear

I realized my suggestion was bad

so I'm fine if it fails now

[hot zephyr]

Just rework it to suggest adding more projectile spears

[pine star]

you can delete it if you want

Or change it

[cobalt pewter]

Ew Melee™

[zenith hazel]

isn't amidias' trident like godly though

[hot zephyr]

I thought it got nerfed pretty hard

[cobalt pewter]

Ye

[buoyant idol]

Yeah amidas is heavenly

[zenith hazel]

stuff like goldplume, brimlance, terra, ele, nadir, banshee, gilded are also great

not sure where you're getting "no viable spears" in calamity from

[buoyant idol]

Never knew there was a terra spear

[zenith hazel]

[[Terra Lance]]

[red storm]

https://calamitymod.gamepedia.com/Terra_Lance

[buoyant idol]

I never realized spears

Ye know what I'm deleting it

I need to think more before posting

[sand umbra]

Amidias' Trident is so good that it got nerfed like 6 different times and is still king

[pine star]

yeah

[hot zephyr]

I've never really used it; there's better weapons at it's tier

Most notably; Biome Blade making its triumphant return to pre-hm

[pine star]

It's homing and goes through blocks

[dapper coral]

did anyone tell Cirno to un-specific their sugg with the percent numbers yet

[cobalt pewter]

I didn't even see

[frail mantle]

wait shouldn't, like, four of the suggs in posting be in voting by now

or am i just an idiot and misunderstanding how time works again

[sharp prism]

3 should

[cobalt pewter]

Bot died™

@dapper coral smh

[dapper coral]

looks like a job for me

[sharp prism]

Feedzuh's overloading the bot

[zenith hazel]

I'll report it then

[cobalt pewter]

[pine star]

[dapper coral]

okey that's that

[sharp prism]

i like how demik waits for someone to star a sugg then remove his

[zenith hazel]

30 seconds till it goes back up

[sharp prism]

lol

[hot zephyr]

Lemme show you how to scratch it.

[dapper coral]

@final rock your sugg is too specific atm with the percent cooldowns, just say that it needs a longer cooldown instead

[tawny garden]

lol

I imagine what these people might feel

They post a sugg and are told immediately that they need to elaborate

But then bam

[hot zephyr]

RoD & Normality Relocator just need reworks in general tbh

Make RoD & Normality both accessories, pls

[tawny garden]

Your elaboration doesn't fit the standard

[tawny garden]

Why tf should NR be an accessory

[hot zephyr]

Because it's stronk

[tawny garden]

Is that a way to balance the thing

[hot zephyr]

In a way, yea

They also should be blinks, instead of just teleports

IE, you activate like a dash for a short teleport forward

With a decent cooldown

[tawny garden]

the point your mouse mechanic is cool tho

which isn't a strong argument but shh

[cerulean estuary]

rod isn't super duper easy to use

[hot zephyr]

Giving a 360 dash (technically) is super strong

[cerulean estuary]

you have to see the attack coming or have really good reaction

[hot zephyr]

RoD isn't hard to use at all

[cerulean estuary]

it isn't hard no

[hot zephyr]

Even if you can't react in time, you can literally just instantly warp a screen away

[cerulean estuary]

by flicking your mouse and possibly tping right into something else?

[tawny garden]

Unless you're fighting scal

[hot zephyr]

It makes dodging bosses like DoG super easy

[tawny garden]

[cerulean estuary]

dog is super easy without rod

[hot zephyr]

Eh

Rod neuters DoG

[tawny garden]

I didn't use RoD pretty much at all

[cerulean estuary]

dog didnt have balls to neuter to begin with

[tawny garden]

[cerulean estuary]

and rod does take some skill to use at it's fullest

if all you do is spam rod wildly without knowing the boss you're probably gonna get hit more

why are you asking in #suggestions-discussion bruh

go to #help-advice-read-pins

[deft summit]

oops wrong channel xD

[crystal iron]

I think rod and nr are fine as they are

Maybe moving them up in progression would help

Cuz for start of hardmode if it could be seen as strong

But other than that it's fine imo

[hollow shell]

on this episode of "Emotes that already fulfill the purpose of the emote being suggested:"

Some to a closer extent than others, but all conveying that sense of confusion/disbelief/disgust

[tawny garden]

not sure about the last one, Rover

[terse sundial]

(Grand return of for suggestions when)

[tawny garden]

Trashbox talked about it earlier today

so funny you should mention that

[hollow shell]

That emote was indeed called :why:, then subsequently renamed to :ew: after everybody used it in their suggestions as a substitute for "Reason:", which bothered some people

[tawny garden]

:why: did it bother them tho?

also ffs some other emoji in another server is called that and I get a prompt from Clyde that reminds me that I'm poor

[unreal viper]

confusion disgust and disblief are the most commonly covered emotions by emotes

[tawny garden]

I hope that one day "" becomes a part of Unicode

[pine star]

[tawny garden]

and gets embedded into the standard

[zealous ridge]

Amidias evasion is a different feel from taxevasion

but regardless

There are a lot of emotes for this feeling so

This one gives me more of a feel of disappointed confusion

[whole sedge]

[tawny garden]

@ashen warren already planned iirc

[unreal viper]

I agree with the sugg.

[ashen warren]

Cool

[whole sedge]

(isn't this like the 90th time there's been a sugg to expand the underground astral even though it's already happening)

[ashen warren]

Yea I didn't know about the Astral expansion

[unreal viper]

is the expansion mentioned in #changelogs?

[summer sentinel]

Yeah it's planned in due time, you can delete your sugg as you wish and no, it isn't in changelogs

[dapper coral]

it's planned in the sense that it will happen

but there is no set date

it's def not happening this update

[summer sentinel]

But it will happen in the future for the underground astral rework + astral in general and yeah, no ETA

[tawny garden]

it's still future content

[zealous ridge]

mhm

fun stuff to think about, in any case

always thought a meld pillar in the astral would be fun

[hollow shell]

Would be difficult to pull off considering normal pillars can spawn in the biome

[tawny garden]

let them overlap

[sleek hornet]

wait, there is a mod added a new pillar right?

[unreal viper]

tremor

meld is a special snowflake so a meld pillar will never happen

[sleek hornet]

oh yeah, that mod

[zealous ridge]

of course it’s not an easy idea

and it wouldn’t even work like a pillar, traditionally

[cobalt pewter]

Pillar is a big effort thing no?

[zealous ridge]

I have no idea if you remember this, rover, it was a while ago

yep

I’m never suggesting it like ever it’s too large

and too much explanation

the idea would be that the pillar is underground and is associated with deus

Underground would be glowing with new enemy variants and such

and you collect the meld blobs from the pillar down there and are given something to summon him

[dapper coral]

pillar is just no in general

[zealous ridge]

That’s the idea, and it’s kind of wacky

[dapper coral]

because apparently adding more pillars is literal garbage

[zealous ridge]

of course

mhm

the coding shit is an ordeal and a half

But my point moreso is that it can be a pillar equivalent

It doesn’t need to be a vanilla esque pillar

[tawny garden]

pillars are also hated by a lot of people for being dumb

[zealous ridge]

They are indeed

There is always a problem enemy in each of them, at least

[tawny garden]

so adding one more is

bad

[zealous ridge]

Others have more shit that people hate

that’s assuming the enemy quality would be the same

Which I don’t know but it sounds unfair to say that any attempt at pillar enemies would be bad, maybe even intentionally

[cerulean estuary]

the other problem with adding vanilla-eque pillars is placement

where the hell you gonna put another pillar

at spawn?

[cobalt pewter]

hell

[tawny garden]

somewhere at a random location

[sleek hornet]

as Philo said, stack them

[tawny garden]

somewhere in caverns

[cobalt pewter]

Caverns is too tight for something like an entirely new pillar

[tawny garden]

fuck it

[cobalt pewter]

Mans got a free area down there in hell

[tawny garden]

still put it there

[pine star]

[sleek hornet]

because how pillar (and redcode ofc) works, the hell pillar will just slowy ascending to the surface

[zealous ridge]

I’d think it go underground

But in a designated chamber, or structure

that would be an extreme case, no?

and it wouldn’t even need pillar ai

In all fairness

[dapper coral]

if you're gonna speculate on something that isn't a sugg, this is not the place for it

[cobalt pewter]

Ey

Bot not dead

[whole sedge]

[zealous ridge]

was simply a clarification, was not to be continued anyways

Also nice

The bot lives again

how close is the rogue suggestion at the top of posting to being put in voting?

[golden narwhal]

17 minutes

[zealous ridge]

oh fuck

well, nice

very close

I thought it was close, and I guess it would be a good time to mention a thing or two

I think it’s a nice idea, I mostly just hope that the replacement isn’t just an item that does the same thing

because at that point there would be no reason to not use flasks for that purpose IMO

either way, no edits are needed, I hope it gets traction

[vapid ivy]

1. Make the mushroom biome bigger and more flat. (Crabulon issues for some)

2. Add some 1.4 items (with terraria’s premission of course!)

3. Add more lore with the “lore” items

4. Buff the firestorm (for the spread shot make it muskets)

[cobalt pewter]

1. Waiting for tmod 1.4 might be the best action.

2. Wait for tmod 1.4

3. Be specific?

4. What exactly does it need buffs on?

[zealous ridge]

first two are definitely wait on 1.4

mushroom biomes are larger in 1.4

and 1.4 items are literally not allowed to be implemented in mods

at least, thats a statement that was made by redigit if im not mistaken

if you ask for permission it will be denied, no doubts

and if you dont ask, you could have your mod removed, if theyre serious about enforcing it

[vapid ivy]

1: true but the mushroom biomes are so sucky you might as well cheat in your own biome and make it

2: true.

3: ex: providence lore can be updated to if you click it will explain the lore in depth then it does without.

4: maybe a small buff for damage and like i said. Musket spreadshot.

[white swift]

how abut when 1.4 tmod comes, add new npc happiness?

[zealous ridge]

yea that would be a thing

suggestions about that are not really needed though

its beyond the scope of what the channel is for

they are donts

[white swift]

ok sorry

[zealous ridge]

its fine

it is just not required rn

when 1.4 comes out whenever it does, it will be worth suggesting stuff for the mechanic

a right click on lore items wouldn't be that bad

for reading more in depth

but at the same time, i dont want it to feel like a slog yknow

[vapid ivy]

Yeah because its just a pain to close or minimize the game, go to youtube, and read the lore someone posted

[zealous ridge]

it serves a similar function to log entries in other games

for instance, metroid prime

with scans being saved with more specific details being up to read if you wish

at that point, though

it feels more like a bestiary tab

than something to be incorperated into the lore items

because, in essence, what is the purpose of lore items? especially in light of the bestiary adding lore for every mob

[vapid ivy]

I never knew that existed

[zealous ridge]

their main function, at least in 1.4, would be the buffs and nerfs they give

your suggestion to expand the amount of lore readable in-game would be a feature better fit for bestiary, methinks

which would mean waiting on 1.4

[vapid ivy]

Now i just have a question

Is the solution for every suggestion just wait on 1.4 tmodloader

Becasue thats what your radiating basically

[golden narwhal]

It is when it involves 1.4

[dapper coral]

if you're suggesting things that are 1.4 related, the answer is gonna be to wait for 1.4

[golden narwhal]

The "lore would better fit in bestiary" is not a bad point either

[vapid ivy]

Why do i even try to suggest crap in severs anymore

[zealous ridge]

well for the record the firestorm thing isnt a 1.4 thing

and its just a matter of "its hard to say what will be done here, we dont even have a tangible reference"

[cerulean estuary]

why would you go watch a youtube video on the boss lore after every fight

[zealous ridge]

that makes it hard to suggest shit, yknow

[cerulean estuary]

if you want to know that much just watch it in batches after you're done playing

[zealous ridge]

its nothing against the ideas, its just hard to say anything accurately about how things will change

suggestions in these channels make themselves out to be about the current version of calamity, which is why things related to content that isnt implemented yet are hard to really justify

generally speaking, it would be better to discuss future content like that in...

gen talk or cal talk?

idk what would a mod suggest

[cobalt pewter]

Either is fine

[long vault]

sugs are fine just don't take it personally if people disagree with the sug

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[dapper coral]

cal talk works

[zealous ridge]

thats what id think, i was just thinking if moderators had a specific opinion

yea depending on who youd ask itd be general or cal talk

[sleek hornet]

they didnt say that

[zealous ridge]

okay, thanks for clarifying

again, what i heard secondhand

removed content could be broadly grouped as "unobtainable" on lower versions

but thats a big ass stretch and a half

so yea