suggestions-discussion

[zealous ridge]

nych is really fucked in stealth

[cobalt pewter]

If you know how to play around it, that weapon is god

[zealous ridge]

But so are all of the spike balls

pretty much

Some of them are not tho

[cobalt pewter]

Nychthemeron and Sticky Spiky Balls (yes) are pretty much the only good spiky balls on stealth

[zealous ridge]

That’s what I’m thinking of mostly

[eternal escarp]

now that i read it, thats a very cool stealth strike

[zealous ridge]

For what?

[eternal escarp]

nych

[zealous ridge]

yea throw all balls at once

And something else I think

[cobalt pewter]

Yeah and fun fact: since you can't throw another set, immediately right clicking will make the orbs home enemies quicker

[eternal escarp]

now im sad i never used it when i did a rogue playthrough

[cobalt pewter]

This takes a good work of fast bosses like Cultist or Anahita

[zealous ridge]

cultist skip smh

[cobalt pewter]

Ye it works

If you don't want broken shit called Skyfin Bomber to Cultist skip with, Nychthemeron is your choice

[zealous ridge]

Kill sky fin bombers hashtag

[cobalt pewter]

:lffmfkf

[zealous ridge]

So I’m thinking

[cobalt pewter]

Byeah, I really need to go on a quick doc overview of every single stealth strikes

[zealous ridge]

Jaws can be focused round spam

but I think the strike should facilitate that

[eternal escarp]

maybe something like the stellar knife?

[zealous ridge]

an idea here is, stealth strike fires 3 volleys of knives which increase the damage they take from subsequent non strike volleys depending on how many of the knives in total hit

So, basically, do a strike and get 3 volleys, each third of the knives hit from those volleys increases the damage of each subsequent non-strike volley for like 5 more throws idk

[eternal escarp]

so like, dunno if i understood correctly, you mean like each "round" of the 3 you send and hit, makes the next 3 rounds stronger?

[zealous ridge]

how it would scale I’m not sure yet

I think I didn’t phrase it well

I guess another way of saying it, stealth strikes increase the damage they take from jaws for the next 5 times you throw the knives

[cobalt pewter]

I guess I can get behind that if the spam and stealth gameplay isn't super polarized question mark?

[zealous ridge]

what is your concern when you say polarized

[cobalt pewter]

I mean it's cool and all to try and integrate both playstyles, but I guess it'd make stealth on that specific weapon a bit on the utility side

Though barely anyone doing spam wants to stop attacking anyways

[zealous ridge]

Well my factor here is that I don’t really think rogue should be about spam

So I’d want to discourage just not utilizing stealth strikes in any capacity

if that’s not what everyone wants, maybe it wouldn’t work out

[eternal escarp]

i think making the stealth a utility for a weapon which is more of a spam makes sense

[zealous ridge]

yes

the idea is that you shouldn’t not use strikes

[eternal escarp]

since its not like the actual stealth weapons, which they depend on their strikes most of the time

[zealous ridge]

but if the weapon is based around spam, you can make the strike about making spam more effective

[eternal escarp]

its a fast weapon, why wait if you can get the same DPS or maybe more?

[zealous ridge]

that kind of variety makes the class less bland

[eternal escarp]

yeah

i like that idea alot, making the stealth be encouraging to wait once in a while to deal more damage for the long run

its like a mini adrenaline bar

kinda

[zealous ridge]

It’s also why I’m an advocate for stealth consumption being different for each weapon and not being a full drain unless using a ruin medallion

It’s a more all-encompassing viewpoint but I think the purpose for that concept is echoed here

Also now I can make the digger sugg so, unless there are any comments I’d like to start work on that

[sleek turret]

uhh since my abyssal crates torrential tear suggestion didn't reach 200 stars by 6 votes time to repost it since a week has been passed.

[cobalt pewter]

stevie added that to cataclysm mod iirc

Byeah

[eternal escarp]

digger sugg?

[zealous ridge]

you know I think it would just get 6 votes but idk

[sharp prism]

psure he didnt

[sleek turret]

fucking mobile view doesn't let me copy-paste the suggestion

[zealous ridge]

Yeah, basically just move fleshy and necromantic geode to armored digger

[eternal escarp]

ah, the discussion we had a while back?

[zealous ridge]

yes

I’m trying to think bout what points should be made

[eternal escarp]

should we summerise the things we talked about before?

[zealous ridge]

I think I remember them

[eternal escarp]

iirc, we basically thought of making the digger a harder miniboss, so he will be the new ravager farm for ores, aka he will be buffed after ravager, and the remote will summon him instead of mecha mayhem / new item to summon him

that was the jist of the convo in that

[zealous ridge]

Mostly: more thematically appropriate, more purpose for armored digger, relevant throughout the game for longer

I don’t know if I want the scope to be that massive, is the thing

I don’t know if I want to mention remote being a digger summon or buffs

I think my 2 or 3 points I want to hit are

[eternal escarp]

well, maybe a point to allow summoning him

since he is too rare atm for this suggestion to be helpfull

[zealous ridge]

1: ravager being a material farm is a strange and unfitting purpose for the boss (the ravager is farmed for his material drops mostly) yet the presence of such an option is greatly appreciated
2: digger is pretty useless and annoying if he is even encountered at all, and he is not an interesting foe in any capacity
3: digger should get these material drops because it would be more fitting and give him a purpose, alongside a potential summoning method and buffs to his stats over time

[eternal escarp]

yeah

imo, this suggestion is great

although im kinda biased lol

cuz, yknow

[novel trellis]

i mean, the sand shark has valuble resourses, as well as a summoning item, so maybe do the same with the digger?

give it a rare exclusive drop material? similar to the great scales?

[eternal escarp]

were tryna make digger the enemy to farm for all the life alloy materials, instead of ravager

although now that i think of it

what about the cores ravager drops?

will he still drop them?

chaos cores, ect

we should prolly think of that aswell before suggesting @zealous ridge

[novel trellis]

well, it's nice to have an easily accessible bar farm

[zealous ridge]

Cores are fair enough to include i feel

[novel trellis]

and ravager only drops a few of the cores, so i think thats less of an issue

[eternal escarp]

into digger?

[zealous ridge]

Yes

This is a dumb ass idea but

I was just thinking

What if the digger had colored cores on 1 segment for 3 segments across his body

[novel trellis]

like, changing his sprite?

[zealous ridge]

And dealing enough individual damage to the cores buffs him in some way, but allows him to drop cores

[novel trellis]

huh.

[eternal escarp]

thats a wierd gimmick tbh

[novel trellis]

it would change up the fight.

[zealous ridge]

Yea it’s a wack idea

[eternal escarp]

but wouldnt matter later on, since most attacks are an AoE

[zealous ridge]

But it would be an interesting scaling factor

I think

[novel trellis]

digger is just another worm atm

[zealous ridge]

the bars would be separate from the cores for reference

but yea, won’t be adding that to sugg

But funny idea

[eternal escarp]

tbh i think the cores should either stay in ravager, or a new thing entirely

[zealous ridge]

yes I’d be okay with new thing

minibosses in new biomes

[novel trellis]

i feel like adding these drops should come with a possible resprite and spawn increase

[eternal escarp]

dont think they will fit with a mechanical drill shaped like a worm

or a worm armored with a drill

[zealous ridge]

chaos cores dropped from miniboss in crags

[eternal escarp]

dunno if that enemy has lore behind it

[novel trellis]

mini destroyer

maybe idk

[eternal escarp]

so yeah, just a mechanichal drill shaped like a EoW

right?

[zealous ridge]

snow biome has a big ice miniboss

[novel trellis]

ice golem?

[zealous ridge]

I was thinking UG snow

[novel trellis]

ah

[zealous ridge]

but I mean if you really want to give it to the golem

which I don’t think is a good idea

[novel trellis]

nah, he already drops essense

[zealous ridge]

yea

The armored digger isn’t really explained per se

[novel trellis]

honestly, this is my bias, but i'd like more spider enemies

[eternal escarp]

i mean, he is a digger

[novel trellis]

maybe a miniboss spider?

[zealous ridge]

That would be for lore discussion

Miniboss spider

[eternal escarp]

so him digging materials make sense, which makes our suggestion have a basis

[novel trellis]

just a thought

[zealous ridge]

borean strider

[eternal escarp]

theres a couple of mods that have a spider boss

[zealous ridge]

yes

[novel trellis]

well

[eternal escarp]

actuall spiders, not like strider lol

[zealous ridge]

The spider queen, strider

[novel trellis]

i know

[zealous ridge]

wdym actual spider

[eternal escarp]

well lets get back to the problem with the core

[novel trellis]

but i just thought it was a thought

[eternal escarp]

that are on walls, like enemy spiders in terraria

[zealous ridge]

yea we gud

ah ok

[novel trellis]

like the spider could drop cores depending on where it spawns

[zealous ridge]

cores

Eh

Wacky that spider would be associated with that exactly

[eternal escarp]

i mean, nice idea, but i dont think a spider will fit

[novel trellis]

sure

[zealous ridge]

But I like the idea of a base enemy corrupted with powerful essence

[novel trellis]

kinda like the hallowed enemies?

[zealous ridge]

make cosmic elementals have hm core variants that are minibosses LOL

eh?

more like

How biome mimics are

[novel trellis]

yeah

good point

wait

have mimics drop them

[zealous ridge]

Cores?

nah honestly

[novel trellis]

sure. they appear in different areas i suppose

i mean, they already have good drops so maybe not

[eternal escarp]

theres only 2 mimics

like, per world

and hallow / evil biome dont really fit for the other stuff

[novel trellis]

sure

[eternal escarp]

well hallow maybe with sunlight

but i think thats it

[zealous ridge]

the point is the theme doesn’t work

yeah

[novel trellis]

i think that new minibosses are needed

[zealous ridge]

Chaos would at best drop from corrupt or crimson

sunlight from hallow

[novel trellis]

like maybe a superharpy

[eternal escarp]

tbh, brimstone drops chaos, golem drops sunlight

what drops eleum, cryo?

[zealous ridge]

yes

doesn’t as also drop sunlight

Aquatic scourg

[eternal escarp]

so theres already 3 bosses to drop the essence

and ectoplasm is

kinda easy to achieve

[zealous ridge]

it’s just gated behind plant yea

[novel trellis]

even easier than vanila with the ectoblood

[eternal escarp]

maybe make polter drop the cores? although thats too late into progression to matter

[zealous ridge]

I think they should be more interesting to get

that would be a massive shift so idk about that

A lot of weapons would have to be changed

[eternal escarp]

yeah thats fair

maybe just, make the eidolist get buffed after ravager and let him drop them?

[zealous ridge]

That’s beyond of this digger thing, in any case

[eternal escarp]

so both mini bosses* drop both grindish items

[zealous ridge]

I think I can mention this in passing, but it’s beyond what this suggestion is about

[eternal escarp]

yeah thats fair

[novel trellis]

since we're kinda on the miniboss subject, maybe rework mauler?

[eternal escarp]

the suggestion is mostly for the bars

also mauler is a miniboss?

[zealous ridge]

the point will be, make digger useful, remove this odd feature from ravager and move it to digger

mauler technically is, the sulphuric shark

Counts as the same tier of polterghast

post polter I mean

With the abyss minibosses

[novel trellis]

i never see it, and its kinda useless except for the cannon it can drop, which i think is disappointing, since i think the mechanics of the enemy itself are neat

[eternal escarp]

i think you should suggest this, and leave the cores for discussion here when people ask, since we brought little ideas, so maybe keep them back-slotted in a doc / note

rn the bars

[zealous ridge]

yes

[eternal escarp]

try wording the actuall suggestion here

so we can have a text to fix before you actually post it

[cobalt pewter]

Phm part of this behemoth mostly done

Just missing Glaive and Nasty Cholla because I can't really give opinions on them because I never seen them yet

But that makes 40 out of 195 rogue weapons :fear:

I'll probably throw the link to #calamity-mod-talk if anyone's interested

[zealous ridge]

Move the Fleshy and Necromantic Geodes’ bar drops from Ravager to Armored Digger, with adjustments to the digger to compensate this shift in resources

While his utility as a bulk material farming boss is undeniably helpful, it’s confusing that the Ravager is the dedicated boss boss that drops bars and alloys, despite how the boss looks and what he implies with his current design. Considering the inconsistency in the Ravager’s purposes and themes, it may be better to move at least some of these assorted material drops to some other areas of the game, to focus the Ravager’s purpose as a primary source of bloodstone and powerful weapons.

I believe the Armored Digger would be a good fit to inherit these drops, either directly, or from grab bags the miniboss drops. Having this currently frustrating, rare, and nearly useless foe become a consistent source of life alloy post-Golem, and an even better source post-Providence would make the Digger worth looking out for, and make grinding the miniboss helpful.

In light of this change, there may be some encouragement to improve on the miniboss. If the Armored Digger becomes useful to farm, it may be worthwhile to make some sort of summoning method for the enemy and improve his stats according to the quality and quantity of his drops. The specifics of these ideas, or if they will be required, can be decided by the developers.

As for core drops, it’s likely that I will be making a separate suggestion for these, so feel free to discuss in #suggestions-discussion.

Here it is

I really don’t know if it’s too long

[eternal escarp]

i think its swell

i personally like it

[zealous ridge]

it hits every point, yeah

I could post in post ing I guess

Unless there be any big issues

[eternal escarp]

id wait just a tad bit for a bit more feedback

yknow, to be safe

[zealous ridge]

Was gonna post 15 mins after

but like, if there’s issues there’s still chance to edit

[eternal escarp]

oh right

[zealous ridge]

And more people are gunna notice it if they get a notif In posting compared to discussion

[eternal escarp]

yeah, i think you should post it then

[zealous ridge]

there’s my boy

[eternal escarp]

there he goes

he half ascended

[cobalt pewter]

The last line isn't needed

[zealous ridge]

u think so

i was considering

but it’s pretty small

in any case it can be removed

because the header mentions only the bar drops

Will have to wait tho :[

[unreal star]

can we talk about the cataclysm mod

someone is reading #suggestions-posting and just implementing the suggestions themself

good on them

[cerulean estuary]

it's #14 on mod browser last I checked

literally just make a mod connected to calamity in some way and profit lol

[unreal star]

lol yeah

so when's the catastrophe mod

number 10 now

[cerulean estuary]

jesus christ

what's it passed now

[robust lava]

I mean, Stevie's active in this server. You could ask their intentions before making assumptions. Also 'profit' how lol

[cerulean estuary]

not literally profit

as in get tons of downloads

[robust lava]

And gain what? Clout?

[cerulean estuary]

also regardless of intentions it's true, all you gotta do is make it connected to calamity and it'll climb fast

[robust lava]

I agree, but that doesn't mean that that's the only reason someone would make a calamity related mod. Since this mod seems to be making changes that are well thought out, it seems to be truthful in its purpose - some minor changes/additions to Calamity

[cerulean estuary]

it passed veinminer and boss health bar holy fuck

[cobalt pewter]

Stevie has ascended beyond clout

[cerulean estuary]

I never accused stevie of making a mod based on clam just to farm downloads lmao

[robust lava]

Ah I see, you were making a broad statement about making calamity addons in general

[cerulean estuary]

yes

also i just checked it's 11th

right below fargo souls

[cobalt pewter]

It's not even top 100

[robust lava]

Mod Browser has it at 11th, which I imagine are daily rankings

This is veering into #other-mod-talk at this point though

[hardy dock]

Yeah I like the Armored Digger suggestion

[echo kestrel]

Where do I go if I'd like to suggest an addition to the FAQ doc in #help-advice-read-pins

[tawny garden]

Ping Merk

Easiest way

[ashen warren]

It'd be neat if the legendary weapons scaled like they used to

[tawny garden]

No

Bad

[ashen warren]

why

[tawny garden]

1. one weapon shouldn't cover the entirety of the game, that's just uncreative as hell
2. they are extremely hard to balance

(And you can't suggest that btw, )

[ashen warren]

It's not as bad since their drop rate went up

[cobalt pewter]

Me when

Me when Halibut

😳

[tawny garden]

Yes

[cobalt pewter]

Why not just

Suggest to make Legendaries more interesting

[ashen warren]

hailibut is like 1/10000 drop rate so there's like no chance you can get it

[tawny garden]

I think that's been done quite recently

[ashen warren]

Most legendary weapons aren't even worth grinding for

[cobalt pewter]

The Legendary drop method rework was approved, and only thing holding it back from being implemented is time

[ashen warren]

what is the rework?

[pine star]

It's the "Do special challenges to get legendaries" thing, right?

[cobalt pewter]

Yes

[pine star]

Like fighting AS fully in the Sulph Sea

[cobalt pewter]

Whatever they'll do exactly, I dunno

#suggestions-voting message

[tawny garden]

Ah, that

Your sugg

In the recent times, you spin the sugg wheel

Half of the time it lands on your sugg

[cobalt pewter]

[ashen warren]

you get the cosmic discharge by beating the dog with your hands tied behind your back and being blindfolded

[cobalt pewter]

I'm slowly infusing #suggestions-voting with my essence idk

[hollow shell]

@zealous ridge yknow the Geodes were added to consolidate all of Rav's mat drops into one item, so the Bag didn't flood your inventory
Having some mats get moved to another enemy would kinda defeat the point
and it would also make farming harder

[ashen warren]

[hollow shell]

Go all or nothing, move the geodes fully to Armored Digger and retheme them
Don't migrate some of their items

[zealous ridge]

here’s the thing

we’re considering the cores here, mostly

[hollow shell]

Yes, the cores

[zealous ridge]

there’s a few things here

I think ravager should just drop bloodstone, he does not need to drop cores or the bars

thus he does not need to have the geodes at all

I will rephrase

because I agree, it sounds as if I’m just asking to move only the bars and keep the geodes

[tawny garden]

God, this place was so much quieter before you arrived

[cobalt pewter]

hskofkfkvo

What

[pine star]

yep

[cobalt pewter]

How am I at fault here

😳

[hollow shell]

Aight cool

[zealous ridge]

the idea is less “geodes should stay around but the bar drops shouldn’t” and “geodes should be moved to digger and ravager shouldn’t drop them”

[hollow shell]

(you do specifically say "bar drops" in the top)

[zealous ridge]

it’s just hard to say just the whole ass geode

yes

it’s because the cores and bloodstone are harder to justify

And I’m trying to keep it succinct

I am thinking of how to rephrase rn

[hollow shell]

"Move Fleshy and Necromantic Geodes to Armored Digger, and retheme them accordingly."

And, I'm unsure if the bit about Digger getting reworked is needed in the top line or not. It could still be there as a separate sentence

[zealous ridge]

well, it’s just a matter of correlation

If digger is going to drop useful stuff now, it would make sense for the enemy to not be a joke and rare as hell

And also, I don’t want to imply he would nessecarily get bloodstone

I don’t agree with that

retheme could mean anything

and I want it to be clear that I don’t think the bars fit for ravager, but I think bloodstone does

“Change the Fleshy and Necromantic Geodes to a drop from the Armored Digger with respective design changes, and remove them from the Ravager’s drop pool in exchange for simply dropping bloodstone.”

Damn that’s longer

[hollow shell]

You can clarify that Rav would keep his Bloodstone in the sugg body

[zealous ridge]

Remove the Ravager’s geode drops and let them drop from the Armored Digger instead, with respective design changes.

how’s that

Da big edit

how it be rober

[hollow shell]

Looks good 👍

[hot zephyr]

The monkey paw curls, now ores are from the armored digger; but good luck finding/beating one

Also, making the underground boss drop ores kinda nullifies the point, innit? Since there's already underground slimes that drop the ore, as well as ores themselves.

[zealous ridge]

Well, bars

And also, better way to get bulk amounts

sure you can get the ore from slime grinding

but scoria is not farmed in the same zone

And you get all 3 bars in decent amounts from the “digger crate”

also, in any case

The ore slimes aren’t amazing

I really don’t like them that much

I don’t get why cryo and perennial spawn in any cave

Nor do I really understand why you can just skip worrying about getting an adamantite pick by just killing slimes

In cryo slime’s case

perennial doesn’t matter for pick power

Also it’s mentioned how changes would have to be made if he’d start dropping actually helpful items

Such as, a summoning item

if the convenience is really that the boss doesn’t have to be fought underground

then let digger spawn above ground

[hollow shell]

I feel like its fine for the ores and Digger to be in the same place

Would be nice to have players at least go underground when they wanna farm for ores, be it through mining or Digger fighting or both
instead of Rav, a surface boss

[tawny garden]

just put the Ravager bossfight undergound

[hollow shell]

👀

[unreal star]

no

underground boss fights suck

there’s a reason it’s only plantera and PBG

and maybe queen bee

[hollow shell]

rework fight so he's tethered to the floor and ceiling and slides along a fleshcord while doing all his normal attacks, instead of Golem AI
bound like Reap Creep from TBoI Antibirth

[tawny garden]

sad Crabulon moment

[unreal star]

oooh now that’s a good suggestion

fair crabulon is also underground

but mushroom biomes are pretty open

[tawny garden]

the fuck is a fleshcord

[hollow shell]

a cord made of flesh

[unreal star]

discord but flesh

[hollow shell]

Not to be confused with the cannibal Discord server

[tawny garden]

the closest thing the real world has is a camera flash cord

[wary oasis]

a fleshy cord

[hollow shell]

Like that thing that connects The Twins together

cept prolly thicker

[tawny garden]

AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

[hollow shell]

is what I'm imagining

[dapper coral]

WoF but it's Ravager and his fleshcords?

[tawny garden]

oh god

pls no

[unreal star]

nah

[zealous ridge]

You all need salvation

For your Sins

Ravager rework is agreeable

not that though

ceiling of moon lord vibes

ok wait I forgot about how this works
It’s just a days wait before it’s moved to voting, right?

[dapper coral]

24 hours, yessir

[zealous ridge]

Yea ok

[wary oasis]

ravager but make it a worm boss

[zealous ridge]

what I was thinking

Die

no more worms

Worm bloat

[cerulean estuary]

wormager

[wary oasis]

if you embrace the worm. the worm will embrace you

[zealous ridge]

I kill worms with zeal

anyways

[wary oasis]

thats the point of a boss

[zealous ridge]

no other real notes for the digger thing?

[tawny garden]

in soviet russia, work embraces you!

[wary oasis]

nice

[cerulean estuary]

become worm boss

[dapper blaze]

I have ascended beyond your control

[cerulean estuary]

haha get it funny calmaity rfernece

[dapper blaze]

lol!

[tawny garden]

return to topic pls

I beg you

[wary oasis]

funni

YOU MAY NOW LAUGH

[cerulean estuary]

laugh

[fresh rapids]

the what

[pine star]

the what

[tawny garden]

wait a sec

did #suggestions-voting message go through without Amber's approval

yes, it did

I pinged her, she didn't respond

@hollow shell what do we do in this case

[dapper coral]

we remove it

until Amber gives approval/denial

at which point we can tell em to post it again (or not)

@silk echo your sugg didn't get an approval or denial from Amber yet so i'm removing it for the time being until she says something, here it is for reference

make the profaned soul crystal make the character have a cocoon appearance when idle for a certain amount of time

Not much of a gameplay feature but just a little cool cosmetic that can occur when conditions are met, similar to how the Brimling hides when you are low on hp, it has no effects, just purely cosmetic in nature

Besides it would be cool for someone to discover after idling around for a little bit and then their character all of the sudden goes into a cocoon akin to Providence

[tawny garden]

I don't really enjoy seeing stuff removed from voting

[hollow shell]

Whoops

Forgot to ❗ it while we waited for her I guess?

[dapper coral]

probably

nbd ig

[hollow shell]

@ashen warren Are you alright with the suggestion a few messages above?

[dapper coral]

neither am i but what has to be done has to be done

[visual wigeon]

They're on DND

[hollow shell]

Indeed

So, we wait

[tawny garden]

proceeds to wait forever

@hearty blade check the pins

you broke like

every rule in the rulebook

[hearty blade]

oops, well sorry.

[wooden wedge]

(it also means delete your sugg)

[tawny garden]

@dapper coral do the honours and kill.

[hearty blade]

I can't even see the pins.

[dapper coral]

yoink

[hot zephyr]

Did you just suggest an entire mod

[hearty blade]

no.

[wooden wedge]

@hearty blade pins are in the top right corner of discord

📌

[hearty blade]

Thank you for telling me.

[dapper coral]

anyway, we can move on now

[hearty blade]

I was only mentioning a mod because it was something else.

[tawny garden]

holy crap, I just found out that this is the 500th day of me watching suggs

[sharp prism]

[tawny garden]

from this experience I've gathered that

Terraria is a pretty bad game

[violet minnow]

well, i guess you were right

[violet minnow]

good for you! soon it will be 1000 and youll realize that youve made a terrible mistake

[tawny garden]

[pine star]

[weak field]

Dude basically suggested an entire mod worth of content

[sturdy geyser]

GOD

[weak field]

See Engima's Etheria variants for what he's talking about

[zealous ridge]

Technically speaking post-ml is a sort of superhardmode

but subworlds are nah for Suggs

besides being insane to code (im unaware of any mods that do something major like this in a complete capacity) it’s just a lot of work to make an entire, basically second terraria with nothing to work off of lol

it is gone now, so it is the past

[sleek girder]

isnt calamity gonna end up adding dimensions anyway because lack of space

[zealous ridge]

No idea

[silk echo]

has amber said anything about the status of my suggestion?

[simple fog]

she has not since he's busy for the time being

[silk echo]

Do I just repost the suggestion or wait

[simple fog]

I believe just wait since your sugg was ! before

[silk echo]

it was?

[frail mantle]

wait how did it reach voting if it was ❗ed

[silk echo]

I don't think it reached voting

[sleek turret]

time to repost my suggestion.

reposted.

[frail mantle]

no it did reach voting

[frail mantle]

_ _

[zealous ridge]

Wouldn’t this theoretically just increase material bloat

[hot zephyr]

Does merging them actually solve material bloat, though?

Seems like another thing you need to craft tbh

[zealous ridge]

no, I’d argue it makes it worse

[sturdy geyser]

it would

heres an idea, make them all one material

[hot zephyr]

I don't think it's necessary

[sturdy geyser]

insteaed of three

[zealous ridge]

well, here’s the thing

[sturdy geyser]

theres just one of them

[hot zephyr]

I think it's fine as is

[zealous ridge]

tenebris, cells, and lumenyl are very not much used for the same things

[sturdy geyser]

lumenyl makes stratus stuff

which is different

[zealous ridge]

There are some things they all are put in the same recipe

like the post cal abyss weapons

and literally every water themed item after calamitas

but tenebris is used on its own for silva

Lumenyl is used for stratus

[hot zephyr]

Yea

[crude geode]

Murdering depth cells would be fine tbfh.

[sturdy geyser]

(is tenebris really needed for silva)

[hot zephyr]

I say we just leave them alone

[crude geode]

^

[zealous ridge]

if there was any material that would be touched, I would say it should be cels

[crude geode]

Yeah

[zealous ridge]

I don’t think they need change

[crude geode]

Agreed

Frankly I actually don’t see that much of a reason for depth cells to exist. Is there a recipe that contains depths cells but not lumenyl?

[zealous ridge]

There are misc items

[eternal escarp]

i think fathom swarmer..?

[zealous ridge]

fathom, I think, yeah

[sturdy geyser]

fathom could use lumenyl or tenebris probably

[eternal escarp]

eh

i think its fine as is tbh

[glass sentinel]

^

[zealous ridge]

really doesn’t need change

[crude geode]

Fathom Swarmer is literally the only item that uses depth cells on it’s own.

[eternal escarp]

even then

[glass sentinel]

some items only use 1 or 2 of the three

[zealous ridge]

There are dumb exceptions but it’s besides the point

[eternal escarp]

whats the combined item you wanna make?

[glass sentinel]

abyss stuff

[eternal escarp]

lets say they will do it, even if not needed

like, they dont really combine

[zealous ridge]

I don’t even think it even needs to be considered

[eternal escarp]

1 is living organism cells, 1 is crystal like substance and kne is a rock (?)

so even if they did need ti be merged, theres not a really possible way to do it imi

[crude geode]

@unborn lantern

[zealous ridge]

but if this theoretical goes past common sense, some sort of abyssal focus

[glass sentinel]

combine the 3 into 1

like acendant

[zealous ridge]

yes that’s the idea

[eternal escarp]

eh ig

[glass sentinel]

ascendant

[eternal escarp]

but its not needed tbh

[glass sentinel]

spelling 💯

tru

[zealous ridge]

I think ascendant is a stretch and kind of unneeded in any case

[crude geode]

Ascendant has more of a reason to exist

[glass sentinel]

spirit essence was made as later game recipes require a whole inven

[crude geode]

Since like the three are used in everything

[zealous ridge]

It has a bit more of a reason to exist but it certainly didnt need to

[frail mantle]

afaik it's only really thee for lore reasons

[zealous ridge]

well, more like phantoplasm and cosmilite are used in everything

[crude geode]

The three combined are pretty much always used together*

[zealous ridge]

and adding the energies to it was convinient bc they were at that tier

yea there were some things

[eternal escarp]

i think theres only 2 weapons endothermic and nightmare arent used together

[crude geode]

^

[zealous ridge]

Namely accessories

[eternal escarp]

hypothermia and another thing

[zealous ridge]

That is not true

[cobalt pewter]

Penumbra

[zealous ridge]

Corvid harbinger

Endo hydra

ice barrage

[eternal escarp]

ah

i stand corrected

[crude geode]

tbfh those ice weapons are kinda cringe

[zealous ridge]

there are examples in any case, there are examples that show them together

such as the accessories

and literally every armor past dog

lol

[simple fog]

#suggestions-voting message

This sugg is close to 200 so the latest sugg doesn't need to be here @unborn lantern

[eternal escarp]

cant see it on phone F

[zealous ridge]

Yes I thought about this

I just didn’t know if it was in voting

[silk echo]

200 now

[simple fog]

How oddly convenient

[eternal escarp]

well

[zealous ridge]

ok

[eternal escarp]

we will see if it gets passed tbh

[crude geode]

^

Mainly my goal

[eternal escarp]

dont see a need for it imo, but now its up to the devs lol

well, it always was up to the devs, but u get my point right

[crude geode]

Frankly depth cells deserve to be murdered. They’re used in one armor set on their own, otherwise always with lumenyl.

[simple fog]

Personally I don't think so but since silva is more nature-like, magical armor, tenebris might be used to help "fuel" it if that makes sense

[crude geode]

Isn’t Silva like the goddess of nature trapped in the abyss?

[simple fog]

I've stated before I'm fine with having an ASE-clone for depth cells, tenebris and lumenyl since those 3 are all unlockable right a boss (calamitas clone)

[zealous ridge]

yeh

[crude geode]

Or smthn?

[simple fog]

While ASE has 2 unlockable drops after DoG + phanto

Furthermore it's quite easy to get an abundance of those 3 abyss mats

[zealous ridge]

I still think ain’t needed

[crude geode]

Frankly, if there’s anything that isn’t needed, it’s abyss cells

[zealous ridge]

I absolutely think that some recipes have abyss mats for no reason

[crude geode]

It’s the closest to oceanic themeing is usually the reason.

[zealous ridge]

Uh sure

But it’s still ridiculous

I don’t think all water themed recipes need them yknow

sdfmg is not even remotely related to abyss

tangentially at best

[crude geode]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[zealous ridge]

it’s just silly, I hope it changes

[crude geode]

You can suggest sdfmg change

[zealous ridge]

it is relatively minor I just don’t get it

[eternal escarp]

dont kill abyss cells they give good money

[zealous ridge]

I could suggest but I recently have today

I’m gonna wait on it

[crude geode]

not a good excuse

[zealous ridge]

and I have no idea if anyone would care because it’s just dumb materials

[eternal escarp]

yeah ik
i mean killing depth cells is wierd, since they are a really basic resource for most ocean weps in cal

[crude geode]

But they’re also completely unnecessary.

[eternal escarp]

its like saying get shard of light and dark to merge, since they are used together almost all the time

[foggy plover]

they exist to give more reason to go to the abyss

[unborn lantern]

oh

[foggy plover]

(the depth cells n stuff in random recipes)

[eternal escarp]

^

if they didnt exist

[crude geode]

Not really. Lumenyl, drops, and everything else is already reason enough.

[eternal escarp]

youd explore the abyss way less

[foggy plover]

not depth cells specifically

the 3 materials themselves being present in a wide range of seemingly "random" recipes

is so you have more reason to visit the abyss

[eternal escarp]

lumenys frops from several enemies outside of abyss, you can get scoria from ravager

theres less reasons to go to the abyss tbh

[crude geode]

fighting ravager
Lumenyl drops from 1 enemy outside of the abyss iirc, Eidolon.

[eternal escarp]

fair

[crude geode]

You still would have to mine tenebris and abyss gravel, and there’s still the minibosses you have to fight.

[simple fog]

Yes lumenyl drops from eidolists in the dungeon post calclone

[crude geode]

Depths cells aren’t something you go out of your way to get currently.

It’s naturally acquired while you’re getting other things.

[eternal escarp]

well, i think instead of removing them, maybe giving them another reason to exist is better tbh, maybe make them in the cloaking potion thingy's recipe (forgot the name of the potion)

[crude geode]

...but why though, that would restrict the potion to post cal clone
I guess so, but it’s just material bloat imo

[eternal escarp]

oh yesh right

yeah then ig youre correct

[crude geode]

Abyss already has the largest amount of content for a modded biome in the mod

removing one barely memorable material isn’t a drastic problem, it’s just some trimming of material bloat

[cobalt pewter]

More like stronger reason to go fish because everyone is scared of the abyss

😳

[crude geode]

That would imply calamity players fish

[foggy plover]

we dont talk about fishing

[cobalt pewter]

crates are fucking cursed

[eternal escarp]

that would imply fishing is fun

[crude geode]

^

[crude geode]

Crates are the reason why fishing is half decent for all of calamity

[eternal escarp]

i mean, theres some other good stuff in fishing

like bloodfins, some fish weapons

[crude geode]

Such as astral infection early hardmode, brimstone crags that nobody does Bc fuck the flamethrower and nobody besides hipsters uses stealth, and some decent sunken sea fish

[eternal escarp]

i mean the hook is nice

[cobalt pewter]

nobody besides hipsters uses stealth
Wh-

[eternal escarp]

feedzuh is insulted

time for a suggestion to get you banned

[crude geode]

exactly.

[cobalt pewter]

....bruh?

[crude geode]

I am aware stealth rogue is viable in certain points, but it struggles in others

It’s a joke

[eternal escarp]

ofc

[crude geode]

...mostly

[eternal escarp]

wait

[cobalt pewter]

[eternal escarp]

i think we should leave this joke and geg back to the point

[crude geode]

Yes

[eternal escarp]

wait, what was the point agian?

[crude geode]

Depth Cells don’t deserve to exist and only fuel material bloat

[eternal escarp]

oh yeah

yeah i kinda agree after the points you've left on the table

its basically rotten chunk but abyss, and used more-ish

[crude geode]

Just because something can be reworked to actually have uses, doesn’t mean it has to be, and I think in the case of Depth Cells it’s better to be removed than to try to make another worthwhile abyss material.

[eternal escarp]

tbh planty mush is prty much the same thing, all it does is make life fruits and fathom swarmer iirc

i think i read somewhere tenebris spreads to planty mush? but prolly just imagined it so ill go wili search

[crude geode]

it can yeah

[eternal escarp]

damn

never eorked for me ingame so i thought i imagined it

prolly the begone evil mod tbh

[crude geode]

it's only post calamitas

[eternal escarp]

yeah, it was post cal

[crude geode]

which is weird tbh

frankly planty mush can be removed and replaced by tenebris

[eternal escarp]

i mean planty much is more of a building block imo

but it has very sparse use, since its not really supposed to be for building (i can assume) and more for recipes

[crude geode]

god this sugg is hitting the text limit

[unreal viper]

:Scary:

[crude geode]

I have to trim the suggestion about trimming down material bloat, ironic

this is a long one, but I feel it necessary to explain why calamity should remove these two

[zealous ridge]

Planty moosh does not really cause any problems being in 2 recipes

[crude geode]

but at that point is it neccessary?

[zealous ridge]

it is almost always just a block for viper vines to grow on and for tenebris to grow through

[simple fog]

depth cells being used in conjunction with lumenyl can just tie into the sugg about combining the 3 abyss mats into 1 material so that should stay imo. Planty mush can go though due to its minimal usage, the issue is the worldgen for it

Removing planty mush would be essentially removing it from the abyss worldgen and replacing it with more scoria, tenebris or just gravel/voidstone

[sturdy geyser]

honestly the worldgen justifies planty mush maybe

[zealous ridge]

mush does not need to be a material

[sturdy geyser]

^

[zealous ridge]

I don’t think it should be removed

[simple fog]

Well if it's not a material it's just something people will trash

[crude geode]

^

[zealous ridge]

Thats not really how it works

[simple fog]

everything you get from the abyss is used in crafting right down to the blocks. If it serves 0 crafting purpose, then it should be removed. it's causal loop

[crude geode]

^^^^^

[zealous ridge]

I don’t. Understand that

Why...?

[crude geode]

Everything from the Abyss has a use and purpose.

[zealous ridge]

um, okay

[crude geode]

Planty Mush has no purpose outside of Life Fruit, and to provide some vines that can be grown from Tenebris or Abyss Gravel itself.

[zealous ridge]

Gravel is practically useless by this logic, then

what is it used in

[crude geode]

Hadal Stew

[zealous ridge]

I don’t understand because if something isn’t crafted into something that does not justify complete removal

I don’t think mush should even be really clumped in with these

[simple fog]

Just look at cloaking gland being removed since it only served 1 purpose: anechoic coating

[crude geode]

^^

[zealous ridge]

that is a different case

[pine star]

Or Maneater Bulbs

[zealous ridge]

it was one item

For one potion

[crude geode]

Planty Mush is also one item.

[pine star]

Yeah

[crude geode]

for one thing, Life Fruit.

[simple fog]

okay. Let's take the example of maneater bulbs then

[pine star]

And it can very easily be replaced with extra Tenebris in worldgen

[zealous ridge]

planty mush is a block, though

I mean, I guess that is one way to go about it

[simple fog]

Conceptually though, they fall under the same thing: very small recipes revolve around them, so they could remove it to limit the bloat. keeping planty mush but has 0 crafting purpose is ideally the same as "shouldn't be here" since it'll be trashed I doubt anyone will build w/ them

[zealous ridge]

well yes

[simple fog]

The only biggest issue I see is tampering with abyss worldgen to remove it so that's in the devs hand, which is beyond my power

[zealous ridge]

No one will bc it leaks blocks

so let’s remove eutrophic sand

Remove Sulphurous sandstone, as well

We only need one block down there anyways

Do you see my point here?

[crude geode]

the problem with that logic is the abyss already has two blocks for variety of building materials, Tenebris and Abyss Gravel. It also has voidstone, as well as scoria ore.

[zealous ridge]

tenebris is hardly arguable as a building material

but let’s go with gravel and voidstone

[crude geode]

yet you're trying to justify planty mush as a building material?

[zealous ridge]

I can get behind that

No

[crude geode]

than what purpose does it serve in your eyes?

[zealous ridge]

Eutrophic sand is a terrible building block because it leaks water

it is an environment block that spreads a material

[pine star]

Then eutrophic sand can be used to more easily make water arenas, or fishing ponds

[zealous ridge]

okay

[crude geode]

You can just replace Planty Mush with more of said material.

[zealous ridge]

I don’t like that mainly because tenebris is already piss easy to come across

I feel like the main point for me

Is just that I don’t think it should be treated like a crafting material

On the scale of say, depth cells

cells are far more prevalent and less needed

because materials aready exist for all of those items to fit into

Mush is not bloat the way I see it

[crude geode]

If you replaced planty mush's place in life fruit's recipe with tenebris, how is it more neccessary than depths cells?

[zealous ridge]

I really didn’t say it’s nessecary

I more so mean

[crude geode]

"needed"

[zealous ridge]

Okay, can I rephrase then

Planty mush is hardly a material in the first place and is instead a biome block which is a trashed item anyways almost all the time

[pine star]

I guess they meant it in that barely anything is made with depth cells and no lumenyl?

[zealous ridge]

I think that cells are even less necessary

[crude geode]

Let me ask you this question, if Tenebris completely replaced Planty Mush, what would so drastically change that would make it so that keeping Planty Mush in is a worthwhile move?

[zealous ridge]

Nothing would drastically change

Honestly I’m not really trying to white knight planty mush on its last stand

if it comes off like this, let me clarify

I don’t think planty mush really needs to stay in, I think that the arguments being made here are not truly applicable to mush

for all I care it can die, it honestly doesn’t matter too much

The most I’d lose out on is the viper vines which I like

otherwise it is a silly item which exists for little reason

[crude geode]

The reason I apply so much of the "material" pressure to Planty Mush is the reason that Abyss Gravel is already the iconic environment "building block" that the biome is based off, similar to stone for normal terraria's underground. You never question stone not being used in many recipes, similar to Abyss Gravel not being used in many recipes. However, I compare Planty Mush to Tenebris, as it's pretty damn similar in being a rarer sort of "ore" found in the abyss within Abyss Gravel. Planty Mush has infinitely less uses than Tenebris, so I don't think it's neccessary to keep in.

[zealous ridge]

stone is kind of used in a ton of recipes, I would say a better example would be mud or ash

[crude geode]

also going off the reasoning lauren presented

granted, I have my differences in logic, as I think Abyss Gravel and Voidstone have a purpose outside of crafting, being providing a basis for their biome's appearance

[zealous ridge]

well, the thing is they have a ton of recipes

In the fact that they’re used in furniture sets

Which makes them fun building materials

[crude geode]

Abyss Gravel is used in furniture sets? Wow

[zealous ridge]

Yep

it’s fun, yeah, kind of duller voidstone

mush does not need to stay, I can get behind this

my disagreement is mostly in presentation of uselessness

[crude geode]

got confused for a moment there bc you need to smooth it down, yeah, getting off topic I think I prolly should narrow my sugg down to Planty Mush but I'm going to keep it as is unless someone provides more reasoning for removing the depths cells portion

[zealous ridge]

the arguments about tiny crafting trees is irrelevant to me, and it isn’t only dropped from like 1 or 2 things, it’s a block that constitutes part of the abyss

you could focus on mush, instead

If your argument is to remove mush for having no purpose in crafting or in building/structures

Then I would absolutely get behind that

Out with mush

Suggestion could be the header you have right now

depth cells first paragraph, planty mush second

conclusion

[crude geode]

yee, that works

[zealous ridge]

I think this would give them each their own time to be “judged” so to speak

because I don’t think the same arguments apply to depth cells as they do for mush

[cobalt pewter]

This is more of a repost / rehash, byech

[pine star]

yeah

Also organic/inorganic is hit sounds

FREAKING HIT SOUNDS

Which leads to inconsistencies

(i.e. scal is inorganic)

[cobalt pewter]

Organic / inorganic state of NPCs might be hands down the most wiki-reliant aspect of the mod.

[simple fog]

That gives me an idea on how to amend that

[cobalt pewter]

Alr

If yours is better, I can spend my current slot on smth else

😳

[pine star]

ok

What is the idea?

[cobalt pewter]

#suggestions-posting being written

[zealous ridge]

life form analyzer secondary function, perhaps

another is just showing it through the bestiary

[cobalt pewter]

I'm not sure if they'd ever mess with vanilla information accs

Plus ui can be a fuck to mess with

ESPECIALLY vanilla UI methinks

[zealous ridge]

I have no idea the difficulty, it’s 1.4 after all

in the case of bestiary

[cobalt pewter]

No no, I mean the analyzer one

[zealous ridge]

yeah

[cobalt pewter]

Bestiary is an alternative, but just to note that Polter has like different states on each of its phases

Okay, that point I made with polter came right as you suggested that Lauren

[zealous ridge]

what

That’s real...?

well can we fix that lmao

I mean I guess it’s a thing with twins too

Or, would be

[simple fog]

Polter himself should be inorganic in all states due to him being the amalgamation of souls, twins should be kept organic I think

[zealous ridge]

Well are they always organic

[simple fog]

They spawn organic but then become inorganic but rather I'd say they get augmentations on their organic state

[zealous ridge]

Right now

Okay

I mean I see it more as them literally losing their eye flesh and showing off their metal endo skeleton

[pine star]

why are the twins organic?

[zealous ridge]

there are multiple ways to interpret in any case

[pine star]

And why is Scal inorganic?

[zealous ridge]

scal is inorganic bc she takes metal sound effect when damaged

cal also has this

[cobalt pewter]

Polterghast in phase 1 has NPCHit7, which is organic.
There's nothing for its phase 2, so I'd assume the same case as first phase.
And both Phase 3 and clone (despite cannot be attacked) have NPCHit36, which is inorganic.

[simple fog]

SCal is inorganic in her current state due to her sprite being a placeholder I'd imagine, but with her human sprite she should be organic

[zealous ridge]

clone used to be attackable, so it makes sense that a hit sound is coded

[cobalt pewter]

Yeah

But that shows the relative inconsistency of polter's hit sounds

[zealous ridge]

Yes

[hot zephyr]

O R G A N I C

New radar item that lets you scan enemies to find their DEF, DR, immunities and organic/inorganic status?

It's tattle from Paper Mario but in Balamity

[zealous ridge]

well I have no idea if that would be super required

1.4’s bestiary is something to consider, even if not in this version

it could be a sort of instant discovery thing

Use it and you identify the enemy with 100% bestiary completion

Or something to that effect

Alongside other stats being shown

[heady storm]

@cobalt pewter your stealth strikes doc feels "incomplete" and "non-descriptive" at times, purpose behind it?

[pine star]

Basically, it's a tl:dr of his opinions on current rogue weapons' stealth strikes

Soon™️means that the weapon is a melee/rogue combo

[cobalt pewter]

Ah yeah, it's initially meant to be just a little guideline mainly for myself, and the whole thing was kinda done in a quick few hours do cover everything up in my raw, unadulterated, feelings. It wasn't meant for initial suggesting. But now that it might take a bit more traction, I'll clean up the whole thing in PC, where I can have more freedom in actually writing these stuff.

[heady storm]

Alright, we'll look forward to it.

[simple fog]

alright that's fair. Just make you're being descriptive when describing stealth strikes for weapons in how usable they are and why they are/are not in usability

[cobalt pewter]

Yeah, I'll do it a bit later today, when I have free access to cal and my laptop on general

[earnest cape]

my sugg is at 153

[silk echo]

Amber still has not said anything yet?

If not just ping me whenever they do

[heady storm]

You need them for something?

[silk echo]

People said that I should talk to them or something about my suggestion removed earlier today due to it having a ❗reaction

#suggestions-discussion message

[heady storm]

Oh yeah, you need her approval.

[silk echo]

I was also never told what to do to fix it

[heady storm]

your sugg didn't get an approval or denial from Amber yet so i'm removing it for the time being until she says something, here it is for reference
Her approval is literally all you need.

[silk echo]

I thought a bot automatically does it

[dapper coral]

PSC is amber's dev item

it's dedicated to her

[heady storm]

Approval as in permission to change her item, yeah.

[silk echo]

Ohh

[dapper coral]

so therefore you need her approval to suggest a change about it

[silk echo]

I did not know that

That explains a lot

Yeah I had no idea that was a dedicated item

That definitely makes me now understand the approval part

[cobalt pewter]

Even with permission, I don't see the sugg having strong arguments really

Most of it just "cool"

[silk echo]

Some people just said someone should suggest it, so I did it, honestly don’t really care either way if it is accepted or not

But I’ll take a look at the wiki in the future to see if something is a dedicated item before suggesting before hand

[sand umbra]

mfw second sugg is just Feedza's sugg but only for bosses

is that just a statement of how irrelevant normal enemies are or something

[simple fog]

I wrote that w/o looking at the above sugg, oops

[cobalt pewter]

[cobalt pewter]

Ah yes

Cursed Dagger RIV

Honestly I always prefer Corruption because Filthy Glove easily trumps Bloodstained

[radiant meadow]

You see, I tried doing that once but then creativity fell flat on its face and was steamrolled by a semi

[cobalt pewter]

Especially with the stealth strike effect cap

[cobalt pewter]

I can probably help idk lmao

[radiant meadow]

I don't think bloodstained glove healing is affected by that cap

[craggy pilot]

i typically dont go stealth so the crimson was always just better for me

[radiant meadow]

you can do some funny shenanigans with like electrician's glove or nanotech and stuff like wave pounder vs crowds

[cobalt pewter]

Hm

Yeah I think I saw xyk done that a while back

Lemme just

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/671082240742260746/783938004305182740/video0.mp4

[earnest cape]

you healed so much it passed your max health

[sleek hornet]

how did you get that much hp

[sleek hornet]

i didnt notice that

[earnest cape]

[foggy plover]

are there no rules against RiV suggs, because if so I think there should be

[proper grail]

At least I'm being general and not asking for RIVs of specific items

[cobalt pewter]

Summoners generally have a lack of weapons

iirc tbh imo smh

[proper grail]

That's quite an acronym chain that I'm not quite sure makes sense lol

[zealous ridge]

summoner would do well for more variety in general

and one place to start is certainly RIVs

but still, it may be a lower priority

[proper grail]

Definitely. My patron item is an accessory summon partially for that reason

[zealous ridge]

considering how RIVs are, or at least how I interpret them to be

sort of pseudo-legendaries with lower stats and more common drop chances, just with a congruent weapon that acts like it

[proper grail]

Still, #ReduceRangerBloat

[foggy plover]

RiVs exist to be reference items and have no gameplay connection afaik

[zealous ridge]

melee bloat is bigger in that regard, id say

no gameplay connection

?

what does this mean

[radiant meadow]

remember when summoner had none and someone suggested to add summoner RIV like every 2 weeks

[zealous ridge]

yuh huh

guidelight is nice, at least

[radiant meadow]

guidelight was to appease those people

[zealous ridge]

more interesting to use than energy

ofc

[foggy plover]

gameplay wise they have no reason to exist that I know of, so there's not really a reason to add more that can be argued imo

[zealous ridge]

ah, thats what you mean

yes, RIVs are a borderlands reference

[foggy plover]

most are, some are other games

[proper grail]

Not true, Clothier's Wrath and Void Vortex have no references

That's just two that easily come to mind

[zealous ridge]

well the idea is, its a reference to the rare item system in borderlands

not nessecarily that every weapon has a congruent reference in other media

the concept borrows heavily from how borderlands handles it

many ideas are derived

[foggy plover]

basically

there is no system for consistency involved with them

they just

exist

[zealous ridge]

they really do

regardless, your point towards more summon content does not go unheard

[proper grail]

Give summoner some love in literally anything and I'll be happy, but a 1/8 difference seems rather glaring to me

[zealous ridge]

im sure many people would enjoy more summoner content in any capacity, rare item or not

ofc

if i was to be so bold

i would just make RIVs not exist

and move the interesting ideas to actual items

[proper grail]

That works

[zealous ridge]

and the boring or inconsequential ideas just be removed

[proper grail]

But it's staying most likely

[zealous ridge]

i wouldnt be surprised

calamity tends to hold on to all ideas, good and bad

perferring to at least give them new coats of paint above removal

which, can be a holdback sometimes

[proper grail]

Sullenly judges in Lorde

[zealous ridge]

lorde was a meme and you know it

it is one of the few exceptions and it is extremely easy to see why

chaos

[proper grail]

Oh definitely, it was a mockery of other mods boss design

[zealous ridge]

ofc

[proper grail]

Iirc it was removed because people started liking it lmao

[zealous ridge]

fuck no its because it was a bad idea

and it was a joke, which is why most people ate it up

[proper grail]

It was a purposely bad idea and people started praising it for uniqueness

Which defeated the whole point of the Lorde, so it went poof

[zealous ridge]

it was certainly unique but it was a far cry from a likeable idea

i feel

i highly doubt that removal hinged on the fact that people actually enjoyed the fight, and more on the fact that when you make a joke of yourself others will start making jokes of you

it was a memefest

not unlike moon lord's legs

regardless, as I said

[proper grail]

Completely true. But, in this case, I don't think RIVs are a bad thing for Calamity at all.

[zealous ridge]

removal is unlikely for RIVs

[proper grail]

I'm just looking for more Summoner ballance

[zealous ridge]

which is admirable

summoner is the nothing class in vanilla, speaking from "gameplay"

[proper grail]

Summoner is fun, but everyone tends to ignore it because of low damage minions (for their respective bosses), terrible defense and movement, and few options

[zealous ridge]

it lacks options, for sure

[proper grail]

Honestly Summoner should be the mobility class, not Rogue. Makes more sense imo

[zealous ridge]

i dont think calamity's summoner is low damage, per se

[proper grail]

Vanilla to be clear

[zealous ridge]

its finnicky, as it will almost always be with terraria minions

vanilla kind of fucked summoner even

in 1.4

just because they added a summon weapon that is by all accounts not summoner

[proper grail]

Calamity fixed that damage issue, but there's still a massive disparity between Summoner and everything else. Also fuck whips, they should be classified as a Flail derivative

[zealous ridge]

summoner, the way i see it

should be a disjointed damage class

focused less on doing damage directly from one's self, and more on keeping damage coming from different directions relative to you

right now, it only accomplishes this halfway

[simple fog]

HP increases can happen via settings -> mod configs -> calamity mod (no music) -> boss health percentage @ashen warren

[ashen warren]

oh right, thank you!

[zealous ridge]

ah yes, there are configs

[simple fog]

As for damage, the current damage they do in MP is sufficient enough and if you want more of a challenge, defiled can work, so can arma for ohko