this is lame
#suggestions-discussion
lavish yoke
at some point whips will be fixed
half imp
but summoner is the summoner class not the whip class
lavish yoke
that is coming in about 10 years though
half imp
also, it means actives that don't provide summon tag need to become much more powerful too
lucid marsh
I understand this point of view, sort of. I just have the opinion that a hidden damage penalty mechanic is more lame
drowsy plank
i think i covered the issue with it pretty well here
lucid marsh
Fair enough
half imp
Minion choice should be the primary thing you're picking for summoner
lucid marsh
I can agree with that
half imp
And then yeah sentries
half imp
and non whip actives without summon tag
lucid marsh
There should be some kind of opportunity cost thing that covers this
lavish yoke
make non whip actives viable
half imp
unless you make the actives on their own as strong as another class main weapon, no
lucid marsh
Maybe what we actually need is to nerf the non summon weapons and have their classes armor and accessories buff them back up to normal
half imp
and this is entirely a matter of opinion but like, actives should be support and not the primary damage for the class
lavish yoke
indeed
half imp
Maybe what we actually need is to nerf the non summon weapons and have *their* c...
this causes many many other problems like making crossmod way way way worse
lucid marsh
Fair
lavish yoke
Maybe what we actually need is to nerf the non summon weapons and have *their* c...
the game doesnt revolve around summoning
lucid marsh
I can see why the current solution is used even if it is inelegant
half imp
the current solution works pretty fine and like
sure it's hidden, but it's again not a mechanic that it actually matters to know about almost ever
drowsy plank
im gonna be honest it feels way more elegant than any of the options you have proposed. it's just one mechanic and it's barely even noticed by most people
half imp
Summon penalty or not doesn't change much of anything for designing builds except for summoner-gear focused builds
Hidden mechanics are only really problematic when they're intrusive onto gameplay decisions
Summon penalty isn't really that intrusive onto gameplay decisions
lucid marsh
Hey wait actually
What if minion I frames prevent non summon weapon damage?
Or the other way around
lucid marsh
I guess
drowsy plank
wouldnt that also not work with crossmod unless you make the damage type inflict the iframes
drowsy plank
half imp
Not to mention things like armor and accessory projectiles
lucid marsh
Honestly despite that. I kind of prefer it
drowsy plank
ok
lucid marsh
Consider real life: it's hard to shoot a deer if your hunting dog is also currently attacking the deer
half imp
like oops you wear chlorophyte summoner Armor but your crystal stops your minions from being able to deal damage!!! Yay!
drowsy plank
lol
half imp
Consider real life: it's hard to shoot a deer if your hunting dog is *also* curr...
Realism is not a goal for calamity and generally should not be a goal for video games
Realism is a tool, not a goal
lucid marsh
Fair
half imp
To quote Gabe Newell
"You'd have these conversations where you'd be sitting in a design review and somebody [would] say, that's not realistic. and you're like, 'okay, what does that have?' like, 'explain to me why that's interesting.' Because in the real world, I have to write up lists of stuff I have to go to the grocery store to buy. And I have never thought to myself that realism is fun. I go play games to have fun."
the goal of calamity is to be fun; if something doesn't make calamity more fun it should not be a thing
now, "fun" is very very nuanced with a ton of layers and personal opinions
kind laurel
Very few armors across the game, hardly enough to mix with Mage let alone other classes
half imp
there's 4 armor sets that do it total yeah
lucid marsh
I didn't mean for the realism to be the justification exactly
half imp
but like, even without the armors multiclassing is still really strong
and i think "removes penalty" accessory, while it would be strong, is less interesting than just actually using existing gear
lucid marsh
Anyways I understand why it has to be this way now
Hopefully a better solution can be found someday
kind laurel
but like, even without the armors multiclassing is still really strong
Is it?
I've never seen anyone consider it viable in Cal
Vanilla? Absolutely
Cal? idk
half imp
I've never seen anyone consider it viable in Cal
then you haven't really looked enough because it's very much meta in cal just like vanilla
kind laurel
dang
(actually that's great to hear I love multiclassing)
Is it just "have summons" or a proper mix though
half imp
proper mix
kind laurel
does it use full armor sets or mix and match?
(sorry if I'm derailing I'm really curious)
half imp
does it use full armor sets or mix and match?
both are viable
but yeah there's actually a ton of multiclass supporting gear
kind laurel
do you have any sort of place I could look into this more or just experiment myself?
half imp
heck there's an entire explicitly multiclass supporting weapon set
(all the Stratus weapons)
half imp
do you have any sort of place I could look into this more or just experiment mys...
not that I know of, but i can answer questions about it (i don't know anyone who knows more about multiclass than I do)
although that would be good to move to #calamity-mod-talk
worthy lintel
Calamity Mod has a suggestion for the Calamity Mod
keen zodiac
thank yuo cheese
tepid crown
@spare bison a similar suggestion was already accepted
keen zodiac
<@1456518029675593773> a similar suggestion was already accepted
where
spare bison
<@1456518029675593773> a similar suggestion was already accepted
BOAR MYSELF
ORSE MYSELF
HOSE
HORSE
spare bison
Ok girl win
keen zodiac
oh
over character limit 
tepid crown
and a lot of devs alr agreed with the fact that that most of the "split" reforges (2 crit 2 dmg for example) were wasted potential
when there could be more interesting stats involved
YOUR TOO LONG
sleek turret
true suggestion but sadly constricted to 1000 char limit
sleek turret
it's good now but oughh can't they increase the char limit to 2000 or something
spare bison
pleaseeee
sleek turret
we're not at those times where suggestors made suggestions on google docs because they exceeded discord's limit
elder beacon
idk about the rest, but armored specifically is ass bc it only becomes better at 400 dmg on master
glass arch
IS IT STILL TOO BIG
yes
spare bison
DUDE WHAT THE FUCKKKK
DO YOU AWNT ME TO MAKE THIS SUGGESTION 1 LINE MF BOT
Im so glad im slowmode immune in sugg post
spare bison
idk about the rest, but armored specifically is ass bc it only becomes better at...
My point dsent rly rely or care about how good they actually are
this is like the 4th time someone brought up "the sidegrades are bad actually" or whatever like girl ur missing the point
elder beacon
yeah fair
but like
at least the rest of them have some theoretical use
glass arch
ok but this isnt about theoretical use
sleek turret
i think they're kinda made without accounting that vanilla doesn't necesarily rely on modifiers but cal does but it's out of the point honestly
elder beacon
armored and hard are both inconsequential effects
spare bison
dude they actually butchered my suggestion
can barely describe SHIT with this word count
maybe i should horse myself
glass arch
ok but this isnt about theoretical use
i like having SOME sidegrade stuff especially with how many entirely useless reforges there are in vanilla but theres a LOT of sidegrade stuff that ends up just being confusing
sleek turret
the theoretical use I found about middle ground prefixes is that if you have an odd number amount of acc slots you can have a middle ground of 2 stats
spare bison
Just don't replace the eisting prefixes with em
you can just add them as an ew thing and thats ok
dont hurt the casual design of terraria to cater to the more minmax/tryhard design that some players in calamity have
you can just add the later as a separate path the player can choose to take
they don't have to compromise one with the other
half imp
Status armor in 2.3
if only I had a sprite
sleek turret
reforges in vanilla are useless because vanilla tends to design on reforges not being necessary and them being extra little stats you can give yourself or that you get randomly
that's like my pov on them
elder beacon
you can just add the later as a separate path the player can choose to take
oh god imagine
new npc
goblin tinkerer 2 in post ml😨
glass arch
calamitas
spare bison
true.
glass arch
this is just calamitas
spare bison
dude im soo mad im so mad
they BUTCHERED my suggestion
bla bla bla word count maybe you just hate me
maybe you just hate me because i'm a girl. with glasses
stupid bot. i hate you
elder beacon
just abuse mod privilege and write the unedited version
sleek turret
it's just dumb really because the suggestor public has changed and the cases where long suggestions were made were just cases of poor text formatting
glass arch
just abuse mod privilege and write the unedited version <:XD:936106628833488906>
she cant thats not how mod privilege works
elder beacon
she cant thats not how mod privilege works
yeah, i'm joking
glass arch
it's just dumb really because the suggestor public has changed and the cases whe...
a lot of the long suggestions i can think of were deadass just xpc
sleek turret
like if you neatly add bullet points into your suggestions and text format options you can surely make things more readable than a pile of text
long suggestions I remember were philo's great rage rework suggestion and one in particular that had a google doc attached
and also feedza's stealth rework I think
xpc suggestions I remember but I don't remember at least one exact suggestion title
glass arch
sleek turret
ok yea this one
tepid crown
Im so glad im slowmode immune in sugg post
humble edit message button
frosty trellis
Even ignoring the fact it's not new player friendly
I found it very, very aggressively against even minmaxing
I love arcane maxing, it's my new favorite reforge this update after cal made it good
But with so much reforge bloat it's So Fucking Hard To Get Any Reforge
I've gone through 14 plat to get one arcane reforge
I was pre plantera
elder beacon
it is really interesting that there is this system to delete the reforge rng, and the prefix rework just, doesn't use anything like that and half the times it can take 2 minutes of rerolling to get what you want
indigo yacht
I'd make a suggestion about a reforge pool to reduce rng but I'm sure people would respond with "that's not calamity's job" even though calamity already does a bunch of stuff in the same vein and balancing is done with the assumption that you have reforges
drowsy plank
calamity needs some kind of system to support reworked reforges or to go back to the old system
right now it's the worst of both worlds
humble scarab
yea
frail fox
Pretty sure that there’s something planned for this in 2.2
elder beacon
not sure what you mean by reforge pool but like
it doesn't need to be nearly as good as weapon reforge
just the bare of minimum of "if you haven't gotten x reforge in y tries, guaranteed on next roll"
glass arch
I'd make a suggestion about a reforge pool to reduce rng but I'm sure people wou...
i think if its to fix an issue calamity itself created then it is calamitys job
drowsy plank
Pretty sure that there’s something planned for this in 2.2
good to hear at least
drowsy plank
if cal didnt fuck with reforges it wouldnt need to change the reforge system
shrimple as
indigo yacht
not sure what you mean by reforge pool but like
it doesn't need to be nearly as ...
you take all the available reforges and put them in a pool
it chooses at random from the pool until its empty then resets
essentially you still get them in a random order but you're guaranteed to get every reforge in a certain number of tries so you don't have to worry about wasting a ton of money or accidentally skipping over the right reforge
elder beacon
oh i see
indigo yacht
tbh i think almost every rng system should work like this with a few exceptions for stuff where the whole gimmick is rarity
it eliminates the ability to be unlucky whilst still letting you be lucky
glass arch
a lot of things that we say "this isnt calamitys job" to are like. easier storage stuff, making the guide better, stuff that calamity doesnt already touch outside of the side effects of being a content mod
sleek turret
the thing with skipping over the right reforge is just fixed by 1.4.5 vanilla reforge system tbf but oughh
indigo yacht
the thing with skipping over the right reforge is just fixed by 1.4.5 vanilla re...
that only works for weapons doesn't it?
glass arch
no it works for accessories
drowsy plank
yes
sleek turret
both accs and weapons
indigo yacht
i mean that calamity removes shitty reforges for accessories
elder beacon
wiki game when it wiki games
i wonder how many people properly raw dog calamity on their first playthroughs, no wiki or anything else
glass arch
i mean that calamity removes shitty reforges for accessories
ah yeah
indigo yacht
so you always get the best one just best in a different way
drowsy plank
ok but with accs you have warding, menacing, lucky, etc. all on the same tier and furthermore, calamity makes it so... every acc reforge is viable
sleek turret
Although for weapons there are a few things to consider like for Blade Staff the best reforge will be Eager (because it has the highest reforge tier) when dps-wise Ballistic tends to be better
glass arch
the issue is that vanilla freezes at a point where This Is One Of The Things You Want
when in calamity it isnt limited to just that tier of stuff
sleek turret
For tools the best reforge is always Legendary instead of the slightly better Light
fossil finch
i think we need to kill minmaxxer nohit culture and
sleek turret
for me personally I think it's fine if there are reforges that are not usable because they're not the best more because I think they're just extra stuff you can add to a weapon than something that is encouraged
indigo yacht
it eliminates the ability to be unlucky whilst still letting you be lucky
that assumes that for binary choices you also reset the pool when you get the desired one (i.e. for random drops, if you get the drop sooner than worst case scenario you immediately start rolling for a second one rather than having to slog through the remaining guaranteed fails in the pool)
sleek turret
i think we need to kill minmaxxer nohit culture and
tepid crown
it is really interesting that there is this system to delete the reforge rng, an...
it does actually use it actually! just that. all reforges r highest now. so it goes back to rng
elder beacon
it does actually use it actually! just that. all reforges r highest now. so it g...
yeah i know, that's what i'm saying
sleek turret
reforge system designed to circumvent rng and then acc prefix changes that unmake the system designed to circumvent rng
elder beacon
by making them all the same tier, the rng protection does nothing
tepid crown
if uve reforgef the fucking pickaxes or summon weapons then u csn tell it doesnt cycle eadily
drowsy plank
i think we need to kill minmaxxer nohit culture and
i dont think reforges are minmax culture i think they just suck
fossil finch
i think the attempt at making every reforge a viable sidegrade is very much minmax culture
indigo yacht
i think the reforges changes were made on a whim without any thought behind them beside "oh this would be cool"
because it's clear that none of the devs like this implementation
drowsy plank
i think the attempt at making every reforge a viable sidegrade is very much minm...
oh that's true
indigo yacht
calling that minmax culture doesnt work
fossil finch
i think the reforges changes were made on a whim without any thought behind them...
they were concepted ages ago and added by ozz earlieish(?) on sso's dev i think
fossil finch
calling that minmax culture doesnt work
it does because whoever concepted them did have that in mind
i dont know who did but its pretty obvious
like its the point
tepid crown
anways just make em cycle clesnly then no one gives how many shits because its like 10. max reforges
i think its actually closer to 22 but statistics and what not
indigo yacht
it does because whoever concepted them did have that in mind
you can't call something culture if almost all the devs dislike how it works, is what I'm saying
maybe they don't all but all those I've spoken to do
drowsy plank
im glad arcane is viable now at least
fossil finch
- i can???? 2. nothing to do with that????
like have you seen calamity vanilla changed wiki page this goes beyond reforges and wether the current devs like them or not
indigo yacht
1. i can???? 2. nothing to do with that????
i think you're misunderstanding. I'm referring to the semantic meaning of the word culture, but that's not relevant so I'm going to move on
fossil finch
minmax culture permeates the entire community in no small part motivated historically by calamity dev's own choices past And present
fossil finch
i think you're misunderstanding. I'm referring to the semantic meaning of the wo...
lol
sleek turret
yea yea semantics or whatever
sleek turret
im glad arcane is viable now at least
sleek turret
for me personally I think it's fine if there are reforges that are not usable be...
for this the only changes I'd make would be just adding happiness system to reforge rng so that it's more favorable to good reforges if you have good happiness
indigo yacht
it's edging on not having any reasoning besides "it would be cool"
sleek turret
frosty trellis
i think we need to kill minmaxxer nohit culture and
Easiest way to kill the nohit culture off is to make bosses deal reasonable damage, but no dev actually wants that so it's just going to stay
elder beacon
Easiest way to kill the nohit culture off is to make bosses deal reasonable dama...
i don't think the numbers have anything to do with nohit (and i don't even know if you mean that damage is too big or too small)
frosty trellis
Too big
Makes death mode in particular feel very no-hitty or only get hit extremely minimally
And generally I find that kind of design from bosses that will very easily hit you more than twice to be completely unfun, regardless of how fair the attack pattern of the boss is
Unchained Seth from split is unfair asf, but outside of the insta kill, I have enjoyed fighting it more than death dog because at least the damage you take from the fight is reasonable, even on master
Becomes a lot more tolerable to fight them when the damage values aren't so high that you are two hits away from death at mad HP at any time if your on potion sickness
Especially when these fights are intended to last 4+ fucking minutes
elder beacon
damage on death is probably too big, true, it definitely felt like ass to take so much damage from some attacks
but what i mean is that nohit culture in general is just an omnipresent thing in these kinds of games
people will experience "ok i beat this boss and only got hit 5 times, i think i can try again and do better" until they reach 0 mistakes
glass arch
thats not nohit culture thats improvement at the game
elder beacon
thats not nohit culture thats improvement at the game
aint no way most people refight bosses like this
frosty trellis
It's more of an issue with calamity partially due to the large amount of damage you take from bosses that make people think defense is bad (and unless you invest pretty heavily into it, yeah it does kinda suck at some points between post moonlord and dog)
And because of adrenaline but adrenaline is its own issue
And the mod isn't balanced around rippers regardless, and I haven't used rippers outside of multiplayer in awhile because I don't like them personally, so I get to feel the full brunt of these fights with the inability to skip anything constantly and it's a Two Pack Of Ass, mostly due to just how much damage you take
glass arch
the way calamity is designed inordinately encourages taking as few hits as possible
frosty trellis
It's more of an issue with calamity partially due to the large amount of damage ...
Defense is so bad in some of the places I mentioned above (namely while fighting dog and polter) that I would actually recommend against a full on tank build and just have a build that lets you survive two hits, but instead gives you 800 million Regen so you aren't caught in a really bad place
elder beacon
Defense is so bad in some of the places I mentioned above (namely while fighting...
i mean that's just proper building
glass arch
the way calamity is designed inordinately encourages taking as few hits as possi...
every hit is scary unless you build so hard into tank that no hit is scary
frosty trellis
the way calamity is designed inordinately encourages taking as few hits as possi...
Which ends up feeling extremely shit due to the fact that most fights in the game are supposed to last at least 3 minutes, but some of the fights that do obscene damage like dog should last Over 4 Minutes
elder beacon
you shouldn't be investing in defense if it doesn't affect how you survive
glass arch
thats the issue defense should always affect how you survive thats like the entire point of defense
elder beacon
thats the issue defense should *always* affect how you survive thats like the en...
that's not true even in vanilla
frosty trellis
i mean that's just proper building
It's more just it makes defense feel very bad and not impactful enough because the tank build isn't sufficient at making sure you aren't dying unless you go hyperminmax tank, as the damage is so high and the defensive tools pre dog aren't strong enough to compensate for the sheer damage you take from shit like death polter and dog
frosty trellis
that's not true even in vanilla
See you in an hour
https://youtu.be/VdNATCHC-4M?si=3CzFsU9UL8CtPstq
elder beacon
See you in an hour
https://youtu.be/VdNATCHC-4M?si=3CzFsU9UL8CtPstq
ik about the video
frosty trellis
Very, very little things where defense actively does nothing for you in vanilla
elder beacon
i've watched it
the takeaway isn't that taking an ironskin potion by itself will make you live longer
it's that you need to use all the sources of defense at once
frosty trellis
And even THEN it's dogshit against the aforementioned polter and dog because their main sources of damage are moonlord death rays that hit you way more often and are harder to dodge, making tank builds unreliable and therefore contributing to the nohitter mentality issue
elder beacon
And even THEN it's dogshit against the aforementioned polter and dog because the...
you should not be getting hit by the rays
polter is much better example of dog water design
fossil finch
i do agree cal bosses deal too much damage
frosty trellis
The point completely flew over your head
fossil finch
its kind of crazy how its always like
3 hits only!
idk about defense but i know this is why i love using the regen accs
frosty trellis
The deathray comparison was comparing the moonlords phantasmal death rays damage to polter and dogs head
elder beacon
oh 
i misread that
frosty trellis
Which hit you W A Y more often than moonlords deathray ever should
So they should deal less damage than that
tame vigil
Pretty sure that there’s something planned for this in 2.2
accessory reforges will have a way to heavily reduce rng in 2.2, yes
glass arch
in calamity there is a huge issue where a lot of the time you cannot only partially invest in defense because partial investment doesnt give you enough benefit to be noticeable
elder beacon
in calamity there is a huge issue where a lot of the time you cannot only partia...
yeah
defense is strongest when the damage isn't too big
or rather
when the difference between your def and the damage isn't too big
fossil finch
also terraria really leans into casually tanking stuff like its very much a core aspect of its design like have you seen the eoc indev video. have you seen that. and calamity does not like that at all
glass arch
in calamity there is a huge issue where a lot of the time you cannot only partia...
whenever i look at a build and i see defensive accessories 90% of the time almost the entire build is defensive accessories
its incredibly feast or famine
frosty trellis
Because in between isn't very effective for the post moonlord stage due to the main sources of damage from fights coming from over the top ridiculous damage
That aren't easy to dodge
fossil finch
300 damage points
frosty trellis
Over the top ridiculous damage should never come from something that isn't rare
elder beacon
Over the top ridiculous damage should never come from something that isn't rare
but how do you balance around this
glass arch
you nerf the damage so scals weakest hit isnt 340 damage on expert
elder beacon
cause if like, dog did like 150 damage on an average build, he would be way too easy
fossil finch
vanilla terraria does it JUst Fine
glass arch
cause if like, dog did like 150 damage on an average build, he would be way too ...
no he wouldnt
fossil finch
some of you need to play vanilla more
elder beacon
no he wouldnt
yes he would, what
everything dog does is easily avoidable in rev and even on death it's not hard to avoid
glass arch
then thats a design issue
fossil finch
to be fair i dont think dog is particularly fun preciselyb ecause of this
does nothing for five years then two shots you
fuck you
fuck you
fuck you
fuck you
frosty trellis
... The normal way?
See how much damage you are taking from a common attack that's likely to hit you multiple times within a few second time period and adjust based on if that's too much or too little with the given progression?
It's why I specify the over the top damage attacks shouldn't be on something that isn't rare, because no one is saying that the deathray damage from moonlord, guardians or providence are unfair because they're very infrequent attacks that have long telegraphs and clear dodge windows, so while getting hit by them sucks, it's also very easy to learn from that for the next attempt
That damage should not be on a head that's charging at you for 85% of the fight
elder beacon
the majority of deaths on dog have to come from getting one/two-tapped by head or combo'd by lasers or something
frosty trellis
Oh yeah doze said that getting hit by all 3 lasers should kill you which I also think is bullshit because then you get hit by 1 laser and the head kills you afterwards
elder beacon
does nothing for five years then two shots you
yeah that's fair, feels like ass to get combo'd like this
frosty trellis
Doesn't help that below 20% dog is also just flat unfair but that's neither here nor there
glass arch
if the only way a boss can damage you is with insane damage hits that is bad design
elder beacon
you can't state this in a vacuum
dog is specifically a fight that doesn't constantly throw shit at you
frosty trellis
It also loves to charge at you and that charging head should not be two shotting you when it's the main source of damage
indigo yacht
i think it's a bit annoying to have one hit end a fight
elder beacon
i think it's a bit annoying to have one hit end a fight
it is
i don't like the death numbers
frosty trellis
It also loves to charge at you and that charging head should not be two shotting...
Especially when the fight is supposed to last over four fucking minutes
indigo yacht
i think it's a bit annoying to have one hit end a fight
well no I don't but i think it's annoying when you're NOT trying to play in that way
frosty trellis
I'd have to see how polter OD and dog compare on rev because it's been a hot minute since I've fought rev of any of them byeah
But I imagine it's just a lesser version of the issue with death
elder beacon
I'd have to see how polter OD and dog compare on rev because it's been a hot min...
i've done them straight after on ml on three characters and it's really not that bad
frosty trellis
Well I'm not really used to doing polter skip personally
glass arch
the most common source of damage in a fight should not be a oneshot should not be a twoshot should not be a threeshot but almost every hit most cal bosses have are
elder beacon
polter has some bullshit with his drifts and the hard to notice projectiles but i have no complaints about dog
frosty trellis
I don't really do it, mostly because anytime I try I miss tarragon wings so much
sleek turret
Oh yeah doze said that getting hit by all 3 lasers should kill you which I also ...
close enough, welcome back scal hit counter
frosty trellis
*Insane damage numbers post moonlord
Pre moonlord even on death mode I don't really have much complaints outside of rav but p1 rav is way more just the fact that the fight is horribly awfully bad rather than the damage itself being that big of an issue, and p2 is so free that at that point it doesn't matter
glass arch
the bosses wouldnt be very threatening if they had reasonable damage numbers so all the damage numbers are cranked up into the 2-3 shot range
half imp
they were concepted ages ago and added by ozz earlieish(?) on sso's dev i think
They were concepted a very long time ago and added by an inactive dev who wanted to do more for cal again not that long before brainstorm released
nobody really thought to look at the concept and think "do we actually want this"
half imp
Oh yeah doze said that getting hit by all 3 lasers should kill you which I also ...
- in death
very important clarification there
death mode is meant to be for the calamity masters and its meant to push players to invest harder in gear
in rev lasers is more like a 5-6 shot kill
half imp
if the only way a boss can damage you is with insane damage hits *that is bad de...
Also this is not inherently true
the damage of the hits should be proportional to how common and easy to dodge the attack is
indigo yacht
i think death mode bosses being able to like 2-3 shot you with a damage oriented build (NOT glass cannon) is good, but an average build should be hardier than that
I honestly have not done death mode with an average build
I've only used damage focused ones
frosty trellis
death mode is meant to be for the calamity masters and its meant to push players...
Yeah and due to that, 1 laser + 1 head hit = kill and I'm not sorry, but that's not good game design, that's design that exists to be actively frustrating
The current damage design of death dog makes it significantly more unbearable than a fight that is flat unfair, because of how ridiculous the damage currently is, and for a 4+ minute fight, being 2 hits (or with the lasers, 3 if it's only laser hits) is not justifiable, especially when the main source of damage just two shots you with no way to adjust for that without making the fight 9 minutes long
There is making adjustments because a boss is harder
And there is making a boss that is actively you can get hit like maybe 5 times over 4 minutes or you die immediately
indigo yacht
clearly the answer is that we need to buff the sponge
frosty trellis
Also if sponge was pre dog this would be a lot simpler
Because having a 120 shield buffer makes dog a lot more tolerable
indigo yacht
simply dodge stack
frosty trellis
Now, do I think it should be pre dog?
Absolutely not lmfao
But I've always been wanting a non-summoner exclusive shield at like a value of 60-70 (if you laugh you're going to hell) somewhere around after defeating moonlord so there is something between sponge and rover drive
elder beacon
Yeah and due to that, 1 laser + 1 head hit = kill and I'm not sorry, but that's ...
i feel like i'm glazing doze and dog but like
idk what to tell you but you shouldn't be getting combo'd like that
the attacks are not that difficult
the only actively difficult attack to dodge is the chain teleports at the last 20% or whatever hp
lavish yoke
buff sponge
indigo yacht
But I've always been wanting a *non-summoner exclusive* shield at like a value o...
frost barrier if it was good
keen zodiac
buff radiance
dense locust
But I've always been wanting a *non-summoner exclusive* shield at like a value o...
lunic corps
frosty trellis
I fought death dog on release a multitude of times before coming to my conclusion
Never ended up beating it because it was intolerable but I got as far as 4% before I got deleted by the bs that's the final dash of the portal attack which I will not defend how the telegraphs and timing for that
lavish yoke
😭
frosty trellis
I could get to phase 2 with 100% consistency and nohit phase 1 in many cases
It's just when phase 2 comes around the sheer damage from the head is absurd
And makes the fight just unbearable
elder beacon
were you using a ram dash 
glass arch
if a ram dash is required thats bad design
frosty trellis
Yes but that's because I also wanted
Well
Knockback immunity
Usually I like my belt more but I wanted kb immunity very badly here since for dog kb just Cannot Exist
dense locust
if a ram dash is required thats bad design
having done death dog ramless its really not much harder than doing it with one ngl
mostly bc ninja belt is cracked af rn but shh
elder beacon
if a ram dash is required thats bad design
idk how to even respond to this
glass arch
i wouldnt know i havent done ramless
frosty trellis
It's definitely doable without a ram I've seen it happen
elder beacon
is it bad design that you need wings too
indigo yacht
thoughts?
Add a telegraph for Supreme Cataclysm's accelerating sword
This attack sucks, as it is not intuitive and feels unfair to get hit by. Short of removing it, adding a telegraph to show you the path of the projectile before it accelerates to mach 8 would at least help to make it feel fairer and a lot less upsetting to fight against.
lavish yoke
its doable without a ram but a ram makes it much easier
dense locust
is it bad design that you need wings too
yes
hyperbuff mounts
indigo yacht
is it bad design that you need wings too
allow me to introduce you to defiled
frosty trellis
I just used a ram because I needed knockback immunity or else the shitty ass telegraphs for the lasers would end up worse because I can't see them very easily AND I get knocked back so if I do see them I get killed
dense locust
also globe is totally viable for dog lol
glass arch
but yeah no requiring a very specific subtype of dash is bad design
indigo yacht
if you need wings that's a skill issue 💯
frosty trellis
thoughts?
**Add a telegraph for Supreme Cataclysm's accelerating sword**
This ...
Good call
elder beacon
but yeah no requiring a very specific subtype of dash is bad design
"very specific" be fr
frosty trellis
I keep killing it first to avoid that attack specifically xd
indigo yacht
i do as well
frosty trellis
Because it just hits you sometimes and I don't know why
indigo yacht
in fact i nuke it every time i get the chance
frosty trellis
Making the attack more intuitive or better in any way would be appreciated
frosty trellis
in fact i nuke it every time i get the chance
I love nuking it with Phoenix flame barrage 45k dps in tester gear :D
glass arch
"very specific" be fr
you have 3 options for a ramdash pre dog, 1 of them is already directly upgraded and that direct upgrade as a spiritual upgrade. so yes it is
lavish yoke
"very specific" be fr
theres only 3 kinds of dashes
indigo yacht
I love nuking it with Phoenix flame barrage 45k dps in tester gear :D
it genuinely does feel good
frosty trellis
Also dog does not need a ram dash so this discussion is meaningless
dense locust
you have 3 options for a ramdash pre dog, 1 of them is already directly upgraded...
what 3 are you refering to
glass arch
what 3 are you refering to
ornate, asgards valor, elysian aegis
frosty trellis
The first clips I saw of dog back when I was being asked for photosensitivity stuffs was with ninja belt and those were nohits
dense locust
deep diver and solar
glass arch
oh right deep diver
indigo yacht
wait fuck I can't use google catastrophe is the one with the blade right
and cataclysm punches
frosty trellis
The first clips I saw of dog back when I was being asked for photosensitivity st...
So rams are not needed for dog whatsoever
I just chose to use one because I wanted the ram dash and the knockback immunity which took omega precedence over my preference for ninja belt
indigo yacht
ok thanks
my internet has been out for 4 days and i have 1 bar of data
discord is like the only thing that i can use rn
lavish yoke
😭
frosty trellis
Oh yikes
elder beacon
I'm not even sure why discord is working
they've optimized their networking in order to steal people's data optimally
indigo yacht
truth nuke
elder beacon
no kilobyte of sellable information will go untaken
indigo yacht
anyways when i was working on my shroomed death scal nohit i resolved not to use rippers and catastrophe 2 became hell because of it
actually
i think i was mixing to kill cataclysm first right as catastrophe got low so that i could minimize the time i spent fighting him
every time i successfully did brothers it didn't feel good, i felt like i was just flailing around for catastrophe 2 rather than actually routing him, like I'd done for the rest of brothers and the rest of the fight
I'd like the accelerating swords removed but i think this is less controversial since I'm sure there's 200 nameless calamity fans ready to be summoned to support a feature that nobody likes
elder beacon
this is probably skill issue but i always leave cataclysm last cause i can never dodge the hitscan slashes from catastrophe
elder beacon
idk
cause i might've missed how they spawn cause like
i only just recently learned that the portals from dog spawn ahead of you, depending on your movement
indigo yacht
I'd also like scal to not be afkable with featherfall but you cant win them all
elder beacon
didn't realize that in-game at all
keen zodiac
I'd also like scal to not be afkable with featherfall but you cant win them all
buff featherfall
indigo yacht
I'd also like scal to not be afkable with featherfall but you cant win them all
using up i believe you can do nothing during hellblasts (even when sep is out) and all of brothers minus catastrophe 2
which is like 40% of the fight unironically
frosty trellis
..... Can I say something that might get me killed by 99.9% of the playerbase?
lavish yoke
Yes
frosty trellis
SCal should disable adrenaline
lavish yoke
Why
frail mantle
speak on that
indigo yacht
adrenaline is kinda boring in essence tbh
frail mantle
you're on trial now
keen zodiac
adrenaline should be completely reworked
frail mantle
plead your case
indigo yacht
adrenaline is kinda boring in essence tbh
oh boy more damage
i feel like we could do something way cooler than that
frosty trellis
Because you shouldn't be able to skip phases of scal?
Scal is literally a fight where adrenaline just skips parts of her fight, and people shouldn't just be able to skip parts of her fight like brothers/seekers/sepulture 2
indigo yacht
i think you should be able to skip sep2 actually
frosty trellis
It specifically doesn't work with scal because adren always leads to a phase skip
indigo yacht
because i hate it
keen zodiac
true
vocal wedge
Exactly. Calamitas needs to suffer more!
lavish yoke
i think you should be able to use adrenaline more often only on her
indigo yacht
i think you should be able to skip sep2 actually
worst thing ever can we remove this from the game please
or make it earlier than fucking 8%
why 8%
damn you fabsol
frosty trellis
With the rest of the fights in the game, adren isn't nearly as egregious (well phm is kinda bad but that can be tweaked with numbers, tweaking adren here doesn't fix the scal issue but does solve the phm issue)
glass arch
i think adrenaline is one of the things directly contributing to cal being so nohit centric
indigo yacht
adrenaline should make you fast as hell
frosty trellis
That's also true but removing it would also make the community so ridiculously angry that I don't think they physically can
indigo yacht
🔥
vocal wedge
Using Adrenaline too many times in a row should just straight up kill you from a heart attack.
frosty trellis
It's why I'm thinking of maybe just having it disabled on scal because scal's boss design gets countered by adren and I don't think that's a healthy gameplay pattern
I don't see an issue with it anywhere else but on scal specifically it is a Massive Fucking Problem in my eyes
keen zodiac
the problem with adrenaline is that it only rewards good players by giving them a huge buff when they're already doing good and does absolutely nothing for worse players who actually need it
frosty trellis
I can't make it a suggestion because it would literally never pass, just shooting the idea
elder beacon
or
hear me out
reintroduce the timed damage resistance
indigo yacht
I don't see an issue with it anywhere else but on scal specifically it is a Mass...
i disagree because I don't actually see people getting adrenaline on scal very often
i understand what you're saying and to an extent i agree that it's bad but I don't think it's a "massive problem"
elder beacon
that doesnt fix the issue
it sure does
can't skip phases if the game gives you the middle finger and turns down your damage to 5%
indigo yacht
you still skip phases
glass arch
because it isnt scal taking that damage
unless you add 30s rdr to each of the enemies
which that on its own isnt a very good idea
indigo yacht
we should make scal into an interactive cutscene
frosty trellis
the problem with adrenaline is that it only rewards good players by giving them ...
So this is not true because it was very helpful for me as a newer player to get an easy 20%+ off of death yharon and dog when I was struggling with both in 1.5.1.6, as it was my first death pt. Even as a newer player it's not that unreasonable to be able to get A Singular Adren during a fight that is intented to be 4 minutes long just from repeated attempts making you better at dodging the earlier attacks as you have more experience with it
frosty trellis
I mean it needs to have different scaling for the earlygame more than anything
But also it needs to be disabled for scal even post changes imo
vocal wedge
we should make scal into an interactive cutscene
The Supreme Witch approaches:
Stab her. Slur. Try to talk like a reasonable person.
indigo yacht
can we nerf adrenaline but make it less punishing to get hit with
like you lose 25% per hit or some
keen zodiac
adren just needs changes
that's what im saying
glass arch
make it a limited charge mode or something
indigo yacht
like you lose 25% per hit or some
and also have it make you fast as hell 🔥
glass arch
make it a limited charge mode or something
you get 1 charge per bossfight initially and you can use that to activate adren and upgrades increase the number of charges
keen zodiac
and also have it make you fast as hell 🔥
randomly changing the player's speed would probably be detrimental with how precise dodging is a lot of the time
dense locust
post changes its likely not going to be nearly strong enough to delete phases so scal disabling it is pointless
also removes the only point of interest regarding draedons heart since either the healing is just disabled or it has no downside
glass arch
probably not a good idea but its funny
indigo yacht
i think it would be cool if more items interacted with adrenaline
keen zodiac
the problem with adrenaline is that it only rewards good players by giving them ...
crit what do u think of this
indigo yacht
randomly changing the player's speed would probably be detrimental with how prec...
how is it random you were the one who pressed the button...
keen zodiac
still, there is a such thing as too fast
indigo yacht
fake news
keen zodiac
especially endgame with wings of rebirth, a substantial speed boost would send you careening into the next biome over
glass arch
still, there is a such thing as too fast
you wouldnt survive in the wasteland
glass arch
charges by getting hit
this is just old rage
keen zodiac
you wouldnt survive in the wasteland
never claimed i would
indigo yacht
charges by getting hit
wasn't that how rage worked originally and nobody liked it
yea
lavish yoke
exactly
keen zodiac
wasn't that how rage worked originally and nobody liked it
why did nobody like it exactly
indigo yacht
well someone made a suggestion to change it and it passed so
it was one of the ones mentioned earlier
idk why
frosty trellis
post changes its likely not going to be nearly strong enough to delete phases so...
Shit d.heart....
Forgot about that
Also unless adren's boost is really small I don't think it would be that difficult to use it to phaseskip stuff like brothers and seekers
Or 8%>
worthy lintel
if memory serves me right
rage no longer incrementing on hit was done during the infamous nohitting development emo arc
where anything that "promotes" getting hit is bad
keen zodiac
oh so it wasn't actually bad
glass arch
rage incrementing on hit would be fine........ if there wasnt also adrenaline that increments on not getting hit
if rage was more like a damage resistance thing then sure i could see that, getting hit enough makes you get hit less hard (obv fucky balancing but whatever) but im pretty sure even at that point in time rage was just easier to get but weaker adrenaline
as they currently are neither of them are interesting because they dont differ in the payout in any meaningful way
plush flame
please do not make rage gen on hit look at what scom does
worthy lintel
also adrenaline is way more interesting when using it defensively ngl
i have much more fun out of a 1 time use shield
plush flame
please do not make rage gen on hit look at what scom does
for context i got fucking 24 straight seconds of 1.6x damage on exos because i tanked them
an that was on maso
errant wren
we make it so rage fills for however much adrenaline you lose on hit
fossil finch
Remove the rippers primer aviso
limber drift
Just turn the rippers into accessories since them being baseline mechanics causes a ton of issues
glass arch
no
that doesnt fix the issue either
that just ends up with accessories that are by far too good to turn down in almost any case
in an ideal world they can just die and exist as gimmicks for shattered community and draedons heart but we dont live in that ideal world
fossil finch
thats right . turn them into Weapons.
limber drift
in an ideal world they can just die and exist as gimmicks for shattered communit...
Well also like currently stress pills and heart of darkness also depend on them but idk I guess they could die
fossil finch
the convenient moment for me to plug fab les
half imp
Yeah and due to that, 1 laser + 1 head hit = kill and I'm not sorry, but that's ...
I usually take about 5 hits in death dog idk what to say about it
Maybe 4
frosty trellis
How the heck are you living more than 1 hit from death dogs head within like 10 seconds no adren dr
Also what class because I was in mage armor but I cannot fathom how much that would change matters unless mage bloodflare is that bad in defense compared to melee
half imp
it has a base damage of 750, like 120 armor makes that 630, round about 10% Dr post scaling, 567 damage
about 700 max HP (650 base + ampoule)
133 HP left, 250 heal from Supreme brings up to 383
fossil finch
all that and we still in 2 hit territory im crine
half imp
At that point I only need to recover under 200 HP to survive another head
which is like... Less than 30 seconds
half imp
Also what class because I was in mage armor but I cannot fathom how much that wo...
I most often play summoner anyway
frosty trellis
So if you get clipped by the head again (not that unreasonable lets be so very real here, it's very easy to get hit by the head 2 times within 20 seconds of eachother) you die even with potion
And you are saying that is fun, interactive, and good game design, for a boss fight that lasts longer than 4 minutes
half imp
considering it's for the hardest mode yeah
Head attacks are predictable very very clearly and well in advance
like the head is the one thing you're REALLY meant to avoid
frosty trellis
The hard attack in question being 80% of the attacks in question so the fact you have to get hit almost 0 times by it over the entire fight despite that being the main attack of the entire fight
Should 2 shot you
Doze you're a fucking joke
fleet grotto
???
frosty trellis
This is why I said earlier that the devs don't want reasonable damage values
Because your arguments for this are frankly ridiculous at this point
Argue about how this is fair all you want at this point, I'm out of this conversation, because nothing will get through your head a this point
royal tapir
Is everything okay here
fleet grotto
I think someone crashed out
royal tapir
That seems very emotionally charged
half imp
this got oddly heated very quickly
half imp
This is why I said earlier that the devs don't want reasonable damage values
Be...
ultimately DoG head damage is being reduced a little bit in 2.2 anyway
I don't remember how much
It's like 500 -> 470 in rev and 750 -> 710 in death I think?
royal tapir
235/470/705
half imp
I was close
Anyway, I am willing to listen to feedback - but this has all been entirely subjective discussion
there has not been a clear showing of your opinion being the commonly held one (I personally have seen a lot of people really enjoy death dog difficulty)
nor has there really been anything shown that provides a reason for me to change my viewpoint
Not that I've really shown much towards my viewpoint either, of course
keen zodiac
frail fox
Return to tradition
half imp
dog head should oneshot you in death
It does! (In no armor)
frail fox
Just hold relic of resilience
indigo yacht
there has not been a clear showing of your opinion being the commonly held one (...
i like this fight a ton but i do think the damage is simply too high. i was using a fairly tanky melee build and it felt great but that's because I'm used to glass cannon builds, and that's not a glass cannon setup, it should be more durable than that
i wouldn't decrease it a ton, and i think the laser damage is probably fine, but for the most common attack that you have to constantly avoid i don't believe it should be as dangerous as it is; you don't have to avoid ml's death ray every 4 seconds
a few other things:
- the mandibles still do the snap attack when dog is entering a portal even though he can't attack/deal damage during that time
- the laser telegraphs (specifically on the triple layered burst, but i wouldn't mind it being on the normal salvos too) last a little bit shorter than i would like
- the barrages used to give infinite flight, why was that removed?
i haven't actually done the fight properly with dodges yet
i did it in mp with dodges but I don't think that counts
indigo yacht
i like this fight a ton but i do think the damage is simply too high. i was usin...
i know that dog is supposed to be the "fuck you die" boss and i can definitely respect that but it is a mandatory fight so i also think it should be more lenient
also wow void striders suck for this boss 💔
ninja belt doesn't feel good either, it makes the barrages so damn slippery
deft yew
indigo yacht
belt
i was using tarragon wings and not using amulet
i hate panic it's so annoying 💔
keen zodiac
i hate panic it's so annoying 💔
you can disable the panic necklace effect
frosty trellis
there has not been a clear showing of your opinion being the commonly held one (...
Because no one is saying the attacks suck or aren't within the proper realm of difficulty because the attacks themselves aren't the problem (I have some minor nitpicks with the laser wall telegraph visibility and the final portal dash telegraph having super weird timing issues that I don't appreciate but the attacks themselves are plenty fine at base, and at most can just be adjusted minorly and be fine)
The issue is the damage values for an attack that is 80% of the attacks you will be dodging until he's below 20% of max. This is not moonlords or provis deathray, it does not need to 2 shot you even with a healing potion, and it can hit you again way sooner than a deathray very easily
It can also just hit you after you got clipped by the 3rd laser barrage, and depending on your class it can kill you (I died to getting hit by the third laser into the head in a tester mage setup, and getting hit by the 3rd laser should not make me use my potion so I can survive the head that would otherwise annihilate me)
I don't see reasoning as to why it should 2 shot you in regular builds regardless of the difficulty (Well, for intended difficulties, ftw+ can do w/e idrc about those). It should deal very high damage, I'm not saying it should do nothing, but the fact of the matter is unless you go full tank, there is literally nothing you can do whatsoever to make dog more survivable at all, and that both limits build variety (THIS IS A SANDBOX GAME) or just encourages more nohitter mentality which I thought the dev team wanted to knock out of the community for multiple years, but this isn't the way to do that (and expecting people to almost nohit a 4+ minute fight is not reasonable for a million different reasons)
This is the 2nd time we've had this argument, so at this point if you don't see any of the points I'm presenting, then I don't know what to do, because I can't do much else if you aren't willing to listen to this, unless you can ask a specific questiona bout it
lucid marsh
Hold on, there's a meme for this situation
Guy standing in front of a tank
"This always one shots me, what am I supposed to do in this situation"
DoG's head probably should take two hits to kill you at the absolute most, but I would like it to be a bit easier to dodge for people who don't have amazing reaction time
frosty trellis
I don't think it's necessary that it's too hard to dash in a lot of normal cases
It's just if you do get double clipped it's the worst feeling ever
Also if it's the portal dash phase it's very easy to get clipped twice even while trying to dodge, as in that situation I am not in a situation where I am physically able to count with the LOUD NOISES EVERYWHERE so I dunno how many portal dashes have gone and therefore I dash at the normal intervals each time but then the final portal dash happens during my dash so by the time I can dash again it's already hit me ! Because doubletap dash cooldown is too long for this !
lucid marsh
I totally agree at that part. I don't think decreasing the damage is the solution. I think instead, certain big hits should give you either extra I frames, or cause some kind of slowdown effect to give an extra chance to dodge
Hell, make it an insta kill, but trigger a special QTE to avoid it on hit
limber drift
thats just what World's End Everlasting Falling Whale from homeward journey does
lucid marsh
Huh
Cool, do that
But yeah. DoG's head should feel as threatening as the dungeon guardian. It should however feel fair
Fair to dodge I mean
frosty trellis
I totally agree at that part. I don't think decreasing the damage is the solutio...
I don't really see why it 2 shotting you in most cases is not the solution when the attack patterns themselves outside of my own minor nitpicks are completely fine
frosty trellis
Was more just explaining very easy situations where it was very reasonable to get clipped twice by the head
lucid marsh
But it should leave you one bit from death
frosty trellis
Because 20%> is where it really sucks that no matter what you're 2 hits from death very easily even at full HP
lucid marsh
Yeah I don't think it should ever be allowed to hit you twice
I totally agree that DoG feels too difficult near the end of the fight
frosty trellis
I feel like it just shouldn't two shot you regardless because that does nothing but cause endless frustration for an attack that can hit you twice in 3 seconds with the portal dash
Or in other parts twice in 5 seconds
And the damage value is too high for an actual defensive (not even tank, just defensive) build to change almost anything
lucid marsh
This is true
I have a few ideas, some of which I already mentioned
Copy the deltarune/undertale asgore fight thing where big hits are guaranteed to leave you at 1 HP and then only kill you if they hit you again after that
Give like 6s of I frames on a big hit
frosty trellis
Elaborate on that a little more because I'm not exactly sure if I fully follow
lucid marsh
Ok so in deltarune and undertale, certain bosses have special attacks where they take up the whole screen and you can't see the health bar. During these attacks, any hit that would kill you instead leaves you on 1 HP, and then you have to get hit on 1 HP to die
This wouldn't work as well in terraria because you regenerate passively, but something like it might work
Alternatively, for DoG, taking a hit from something that does a lot of damage should give you several seconds of invincibility frames
indigo yacht
you can disable the panic necklace effect
i know i always do
frosty trellis
Ok so in deltarune and undertale, certain bosses have special attacks where they...
Oh inch resting
Unfortunately that doesn't work because of dots but that'd be neat on like a no dot fight
dense locust
the ever helpful deific amulet
frosty trellis
Deific amulet iframes I don't think are enough between the portal dashes unless my math is wrong
Because there is more than a second and a half between the portal dashes
lucid marsh
I have never actually beaten new DoG legitimately because the phase for the last 20% of his HP is just so ball crushingly difficult and chaotic
It gets so insanely chaotic that I can't process what's happening
The last phase should be like, a fixed length sequence of things
lucid marsh
Regardless
It's too fast and too much to process
I consider it the hardest boss in the mod by far
frosty trellis
Portal dash > regular head charges > laser barrages rinse repeat
At least from what I remember
Can agree on that
Def the hardest boss currently and it's not even close
Death scal is the only other fight that's even worth talking about when it comes to high difficulty
lucid marsh
Portal dash > regular head charges > laser barrages rinse repeat
At least from ...
Knowing about this doesn't make it any easier
dense locust
Def the hardest boss currently and it's not even close
Death scal is the only o...
enraged emp and prov...
lucid marsh
I sure would love to have my undertale controls mount for this but no, it has to be a post game thing!
dense locust
broom is there and technically a usable item
lucid marsh
I could beat enraged empress of light with DoG tier gear more easily than I could beat regular DoG
dense locust
well no shit
lucid marsh
I could probably even beat SCal with DoG tier gear more easily than DoG
limber drift
there are other mounts which while less instantly accelarating give a similar kind of movement to exo chair
lucid marsh
It specifically has to be instant acceleration
dense locust
I could beat dog with shadowspec gear more easily than I could beat on tier day empress
lucid marsh
Fair, it was a bad comparison
But to me, the DoG fight is like if you had to beat daytime empress with on tier gear, or maybe a tier above
frosty trellis
enraged emp and prov...
I forget night provi is a thing as I've never found a reason to do it ever, and daytime empress is by design
lavish yoke
dog isnt hard at all
lucid marsh
I guess different people are good at different things
Which bosses are harder for you? Or easier?
lavish yoke
King Slime
lucid marsh
What
indigo yacht
I have never actually beaten new DoG legitimately because the phase for the last...
it's really fun imo
lucid marsh
I mostly like the DoG fight, but I'm really bad at things like it
Exo mechs are also hard for me, almost as hard as DoG
lavish yoke
I have never actually beaten new DoG legitimately because the phase for the last...
Where else have I seen a DoG that has a very difficult phase at 20% hp 🤔
indigo yacht
i did a 10 minute death dog earlier, i think i spent like 4 minutes below... whatever the 3rd phase % is because i couldn't really deal damage to it
no idea how people get like 3 min da killtimes
oblique birch
indigo yacht
been watching my brother play for a while and he really likes bloom stone and i kept getting surprised that it was still healing him
limber drift
I feel like the newest suggestion couldn’t really work since like yharims fight doesn’t exist yet
Also the wiki would have to document it and like it’d be in the code
Also thats locking a 1/10000000 chance to a single day on a single seed to a secre boss which is like a bit much even if yharim was somehow even already made
Joke suggs aren’t allowed I’m pretty sure
kind laurel
It'll probably get flagged I'd bet
frail mantle
@barren cape please keep discussion of suggestions to here
barren cape
<@1003116330716766268> please keep discussion of suggestions to here
That was a suggestion for your suggestions channel.
frail mantle
then it's still better to put it here
barren cape
frail mantle
#suggestions-posting is for suggestions for the mod specifically
barren cape
Joke suggs aren’t allowed I’m pretty sure
I was being serious.
And again, locking rules behind a doc in a channel description, isnt very obvious. I dont ever look at those things. I know there are a crap ton of channels, but, like, why not throw it in with the #rules channel so its easy to see? Since we're discussing this stuff here
frail mantle
because #rules are for overall server rules
the doc only applies for suggestions channels
barren cape
Isn't there a way to make you read a mini TOS for specific channels before you're allowed to post?
limber drift
The rules are literally the message in the channel you posted the sugg to though so like its not hard to find where the rules are
barren cape
I feel like i wouldn't have even talked about it if I had been able to easily see.
frail mantle
The rules are literally the message in the channel you posted the sugg to though...
yea like
the rules doc isn't even buried in the pins or anything it's always at the top of the channel
barren cape
Okay but like, who's gonna reasonably think to SCROLL UP in a chat that could have been up for years.
barren cape
Again, I feel like maybe it could be a bit better optimized. But I might just be stupid.
limber drift
Its literally on screen when you open the channel at least for me
barren cape
No?? Its like 2 seconds
I mean regardless of how old or new the channel is, who thinks instinctively to scroll up
barren cape
Its literally on screen when you open the channel at least for me
Not for me it isnt. Maybe on PC
But not on mobile.
limber drift
I’m on mobile its right there for me
barren cape
I would have seen it and been like "oh, no serious troll suggestions" and been on about my day
This is all I saw when I first joined.
Nothing to indicate there were rules at the top
Again, maybe im just too dumb, but i dunno man
indigo yacht
wouldn't you still scroll up to see what suggestions were like though
i wouldnt make a suggestion just based on two from the same person
indigo yacht
??
frail mantle
i think part of the problem here is that mobile discord sucks ass
limber drift
You’d also presumably want to see if there are any rules cos like I feel like there obviously would have to be rules for it and not just posting anything at all
barren cape
Why would I do that, when, again, I would automatically assume from a several year old server that there are loads of messages on a channel that I would imagine, has a shit ton of active engagement
indigo yacht
yeah exactly so you can scroll up to get a general idea of what suggestions are
barren cape
You’d also presumably want to see if there are any rules cos like I feel like th...
Maybe if I'd been in enough servers that actually do that, sure. I could see it
vocal wedge
And you didn't think to ask if there were rules about it?
limber drift
The channel literally deletes the messages in it when it sends them to the suggestion posting channel thats literally how it works it doesn’t have a load of messages in it still
frail mantle
idk man i feel like since this is, as you said, a several years old server, it's fair to assume there's probably some form of suggestions rules
barren cape
And you didn't think to ask if there were rules about it?
I imagined just dont be a dick or ask for copyrighted stuff (even though im shocked that all the blatant MGRR references would have been struck down years ago)
vocal wedge
There are more than that.
frail mantle
the nefarious horse
vocal wedge
Like asking for extremely specific things.
Or unreasonable things.
Or voice acting.
barren cape
Thats another thing, if copyright striking is a modders worse nightmare, then why is 50% of your damn mod full of the stuff? Like, hwat?
Thats asking for a strike
indigo yacht
when did copyright come up
barren cape
I imagined just dont be a dick or ask for copyrighted stuff (even though im shoc...
Right here
frail mantle
Isn't there a way to make you read a mini TOS for specific channels before you'r...
on this note that would probably be nice but i feel like if something like that was easily achievable it would have been a thing already
limber drift
Its not copyright thats the issue what? I’m pretty sure its just that the devs want to tone down the amount of references in the mod
frail mantle
Thats another thing, if copyright striking is a modders worse nightmare, then wh...
what copyrighted things are you talking about
most reference content is either ancient or donor content
indigo yacht
the developers want calamity to have content that's original and not just be made entirely of references to other media
barren cape
If you use references to media in other media without permission from the license holder, theyre liable to sue you or do legal action, claiming that youre stealing their intellectual property, no?
limber drift
I don’t think that applies if the project isn’t making money I thought like calamity iirc
barren cape
So would be having the Murasama, clearly from MGRR, be an open door for CapCom to be like "yeah no buddy"
frail mantle
isn't the murasama like
barren cape
I don’t think that applies if the project isn’t making money I thought like cala...
That doesnt stop Nintendo
barren cape
an actual mythical sword from japanese legend
Thats Muramasa
frail mantle
right
barren cape
Murasama was a nod to western culture misinterpretation of eastern culture and folklore
Hence why its called that in MGRR
vocal wedge
an actual mythical sword from japanese legend
Murasama is just Muramasa mistranslated, that was the name of a sword smith,
The legend you're thinking of was that they couldn't be sheathed without drawing blood, but to my knowledge Muramasa was a real guy.
frail mantle
either way iunno if just having a version of the murasama in the mod is a copyright violation necessarily
i feel like if it was it would Not still be in there
barren cape
Only if CapCom doesnt care. Im just saying Im shocked is all. Its a bold move nowadays.
limber drift
Calamity would’ve died years ago if copyright really mattered for it
frail mantle
cal doesn't directly make money from the mod itself but it does have merch and the patreon
again, i feel like if it was an issue it wouldn't still be in the mod
humble scarab
Yea
vocal wedge
That and a red sword isn't exactly that specific. It wouldn't take that much effort to change it if a legal issue arised. Like, remove the cartridge from it and that's the only real unique thing from MGR:R that is clearly there.
barren cape
Another note, if we cant do serious troll suggestions, why does The Lorde even exist in the mod to begin with? Like yes, I know it wasnt a suggestion, but its "haha look, its Yharim"
humble scarab
Its a joke from the devs
vocal wedge
Old April Fool's joke.
humble scarab
Its a joke from the devs
Not from community
frail mantle
because the lorde wasn't added through suggestions
barren cape
because the lorde wasn't added through suggestions
Already said that
limber drift
Old april fools joke that they added to gfb for the hell of it
vocal wedge
There's not much of a reason to accept additional April Fool's joke ideas.
humble scarab
Getfixedboi itself is a joke
frail mantle
the mod isn't opposed to adding silly content
hell, the main premise of the next big update is basically a meme
vocal wedge
And the point of the suggestions is for things that the mod needs. The mod does not need April Fool's.
barren cape
So then would me suggesting a Chainsaw Man ripoff from Temu called, Ripsaw Guy, with Photon ripper's for his chainsaws instead as a boss be taken as a joke, or a troll?
indigo yacht
yes
vocal wedge
That's far too specific, putting aside being a joke.
frail mantle
that would count as a joke yes
and also would count as a boss suggestion which is also not allowed
vocal wedge
And no bosses surely is a rule.
humble scarab
Suggestions are for fixing problems
frail mantle
yeag
humble scarab
Like if stuff lacks in certain stages
vocal wedge
Or the fact that Calamity doesn't add trapped chest variants for its chests.
indigo yacht
and also would count as a boss suggestion which is also not allowed
boss suggestions aren't allowed?
vocal wedge
boss suggestions aren't allowed?
The chances of them being accepted are 0%.
indigo yacht
???
vocal wedge
So it doesn't really matter even if they did.
limber drift
boss suggestions aren't allowed?
I’m guessing its like no entirely new boss suggestions
barren cape
What in any way does this mod lack besides Yharim, (in like the year 4026 when it eventually happens), or a few boss tweaks and resprites? Like this mod has everythinf
vocal wedge
What in any way does this mod lack besides Yharim, (in like the year 4026 when i...
Good content.
humble scarab
What in any way does this mod lack besides Yharim, (in like the year 4026 when i...
Good bosses
And content
frail mantle
the main point of the suggestions rules is to act as a filter because, to put it bluntly, if everyone could suggest whatever the fuck they wanted the devs would have to sift through mountains of dogshit suggestions just to find the few that could actually be good
limber drift
What in any way does this mod lack besides Yharim, (in like the year 4026 when i...
Diverse enemy designs in biomes
vocal wedge
There are two areas that are meant to be ruined countries and the only sign of this is that one of them has a bridge.
frail mantle
What in any way does this mod lack besides Yharim, (in like the year 4026 when i...
what people mentioned above but like
vocal wedge
There's an entire planned dimension.
frail mantle
the devs aren't omnipotent, and sometimes non devs do have good input for things devs might not have thought about
safe gorge
What in any way does this mod lack besides Yharim, (in like the year 4026 when i...
see you'd think that, but there calamity right now only has like 40% of the stuff it wants to do. which i for one find very exciting
limber drift
Also like your suggestion that started this was to just add yharim but as a replacement for the lorde on april fools day at a 1/10,000,000 chance which like also didn’t even give any reasoning as to why that should be done
indigo yacht
the reasoning they gave was it would be funny
limber drift
I don’t even really see how that would be really “funny” outside of random humour or like gaslighting people or something
safe gorge
in my book that's a good reason, but not so much for actual development suggestions
vocal wedge
'That would be funny' is how you end up with Old Duke.
tepid crown
And again, locking rules behind a doc in a channel description, isnt very obviou...
its not even locked to the description its the top message of the channel (which even at peak usage is like. 10 messages max) and is also pinned in all 3 suggestions channels
safe gorge
'That would be funny' is how you end up with Old Duke.
but it's also why we're getting the horrible hog!
barren cape
'That would be funny' is how you end up with Old Duke.
We dont talk about Old Duke
limber drift
Its good when its actually funny and not just random=funny as the justification for why its ‘funny’
safe gorge
don't take my word for when things are funny. i find a lot of very stupid things funny
tbh i'm not sure if i gave good enough reasoning for my navystone crafting suggestion beyond "i don't want to obliterate my sunken sea and hunt its wildlife to get pretty blocks," also i screwed up the formatting...
but i'm really glad my azafurian background idea seems to have gone over well, i was proud of that one!
half imp
the whole thing about scrolling up baffles me because it's not really that unrealistic to not scroll up
but like... it's super common to have important stuff in pins in channels in any server lol
That's literally what they're for
barren cape
the whole thing about scrolling up baffles me because it's not really that unrea...
THANK YOU
fossil finch
Yeah but it's pinned so you should check the pins and its there
half imp
Yeah
barren cape
Yeah but it's pinned so you should check the pins and its there
If it were more common I'd think to do such
fossil finch
l logic
half imp
it's pretty common in my experience in discord servers
worthy lintel
aaaaahhh, pins
calm knot
let them cook
indigo yacht
the murasama is only red it's not green or blue
limber drift
Wait yeah what do they mean with “a more vibrant red blue and green, kinda like the Murasama”like the murasama is just red I thought, maybe a bit of white but no blue or green
elder beacon
might be using a mod or texture paxk that changes it? does overhaul change its appearence?
glass arch
dont think it does
anyways @barren cape what do you mean "a more vibrant red blue and green, kinda like the Murasama"
are you referring to specifically murasamas very saturated red?
limber drift
Looking at the photon ripper’s colours I kind of see that like they may mean like they want the pink to be replaced with like a red like the murasama’s
barren cape
anyways <@1003116330716766268> what do you mean "a more vibrant red blue and gre...
The Murasama has a super vibrant red. So do that for the red and the blue and green. More pop to the color instead of a dull tint.
Is what I mean
glass arch
ok that makes sense
barren cape
I love the Photon ripper, just always felt the colors were a little lackluster compared to other Exomech weapons
limber drift
I will say maybe tweaking the wording of the suggestion would probably help it, by like probably just not mentioning the Murasama could help make it a bit less confusing since rn it is a bit weirdly written
keen zodiac
all roads lead to murasama
limber drift
All roads suck then
vocal wedge
I'm not sure if this actually violates the rules but it's a bit of a nitpick for a suggestion.
lavish yoke
all roads lead to mgrr
glass arch
I'm not sure if this actually violates the rules but it's a bit of a nitpick for...
this is like exactly the kind of stuff the suggestions channel exists for
limber drift
I'm not sure if this actually violates the rules but it's a bit of a nitpick for...
Like I do feel like that making its colours more vibrant could be an improvement visually to it but like it obviously is very minor and probably wouldn't reach the star threshhold
glass arch
this is like exactly the kind of stuff the suggestions channel exists for
a minor "nitpicky" suggestion has the same right to exist as a broad suggestion to, say, undo the prefix changes
reminder that the most starred suggestion in this servers history is the suggestion to flip icicle arrows sprite
limber drift
why was that a suggestion was it like the wrong way before and people wanted consistency
glass arch
it was facing upwards when all other arrows face downwards
indigo yacht
The Murasama has a super vibrant red. So do that for the red and the blue and gr...
ok that makes sense
craggy girder
I'm not sure if this actually violates the rules but it's a bit of a nitpick for...
i would be sugg banned if nitpicks werent allowed
surreal pebble
i would be sugg banned if nitpicks werent allowed
I just don't post suggestions. I'm sure all of mine would get denied or have 100% been suggested before such as
"buff mage" or "buff mage more"
Or make event horizon not ass lol
limber drift
If the suggestion literally was just to “buff mage” then yeah that definitely wouldn’t on its own be a viable suggestion and making the event horizon not “ass” would definitely moreso be something for the Balance-Issue-Reports Channel
frail fox
That’s been done anyway
craggy girder
isnt event horizon gonna be like the burning sea or am i misremembering
drowsy plank
Or make event horizon not ass lol
surreal pebble
<#1178515062030348308>
Tbh I was mostly joking. It feels improper to say a weapon actually sucks when I'm playing infernum. While they are close I'm "technically" fighting a different boss that's not the intended experience.
half imp
They're pretty different anyway lol
Every infernum boss after event horizon is very different than rev
tame vigil
Or make event horizon not ass lol
i buffed event horizon a bit ago, should be a lot better in 2.2
although, it still probably won't be that great in inf
lucid marsh
I used it and I remember it being situationally really good
candid dove
Please don't spam first in here or start posting memes or whatever. Doing so will result in an immediate warn, without verbal warnings first, or respective punishments if you are already warned.
ashen warren
Well then
steep island
first new channel cool
sinful violet
YES
buoyant ingot
fourth
opal barn
Nice this channel was very needed
spark karma
A number.
crude quartz
finally
old cypress
stop creating new channels
soft fjord
Yeeee
sinful violet
Right, so is the other one having that bot yessed.
ashen warren
Finally #suggestions-voting will be easier to read.
wanton hemlock
why would we need suggestions and suggestions-discussion smh
buoyant ingot
what's the difference between this and suggestions?
ruby cobalt
oh no, we have to yell at people to go here for discussing things
#suggestions-voting is just for suggesting things
ashen warren
Here we can discuss the suggestions one wants to do
ruby cobalt
#suggestions-discussion is for discussing those suggestions
sinful violet
Ah, how is the bot gonna work
bitter topaz
so #suggestions-voting does't get flooded with more discussion than suggestions
ashen warren
Probably with a emote voting
sinful violet
Like the original idea?
vague olive
Good channel
hearty yew
Ok. What is the difference between this channel and #suggestions-voting ?
buoyant ingot
the difference is
steep island
This place you can discuss people's suggestions
Suggestions is for suggesting stuff
vague olive
You talk about suggestions posted in #suggestions-voting
crude quartz
people are gonna suggest something and when mods scroll through the chat they can “Star” a message and it’ll be reposted in some modchat/devchat last I heard mrrp
hollow shell
If you've been on the art server, imagine the difference between #artwork_showcase and #art_general
It's like that, but for suggestions
sinful violet
So do we yell at people who post in #suggestions-voting
hearty yew
i stay away from the art server
hollow shell
oof
ashen warren
But about the drop rate of the pet,
In vanilla pets are always really rare when they are from enemies or bosses in general,
that the pets have a high drop rate from bosses in calamity is fine for me,
but when talking about drop rates from normal/rare enemies the drop rate should still be very low in my opinion.
bold birch
new channel
buoyant ingot
too bad i cant post low quality art in the art server
you would all see my amazing sprites
sinful violet
earth...
vague olive
Late
steep island
Start discussing suggestions or punishments will be dished.
ashen warren
literally just tried to do that
wanton hemlock
Someone has probably suggested an NPC or two to be added. I know I did
sinful violet
Zach, we need an announcement for how the new suggestions channels are supposed to be used
AHHHHH
bold birch
What yall think of the pinky staff
lavish briar
wow stealing from thorium 
sinful violet
Pinky staff was hot
lavish briar
i meant
candid dove
Thorium was an idea from me, ya goof
bold birch
having a army of pinkies yum
ebon mortar
I wait for #suggestions-discussion-discussion
steep island
Discuss people's suggestions from #suggestions-voting in here.
Do NOT discuss them in #suggestions-voting.
sinful violet
bold birch
should i sprite the pinky staff
spark karma
how many times did someone say suggesions in this room
cyan lagoon
Wrong place
bold birch
aka recolor slime staff 
cyan lagoon
god
sinful violet
I was just getting slightly annoyed about all the people still talking in suggestions.
hearty yew
Alright I'll start with "visible SCal hit counter" which I am sure that I am far from the only person to have said
wanton hemlock
^
hearty yew
What are the pros and cons of having some way to know your current hit count while fighting scal
are you supposed to just NOT know because "git gud" or "lrn 2 count"?
or is it just not implemented
wanton hemlock
Pros: You see it. Cons: Autistic screeching from hardcore players
ashen warren
it likely won't be added
opal barn
Cons would be because some people would stress out more
ashen warren
^^
steep island
I could maybe..
lavish briar
pro because there would be less confusion
steep island
Make an optional mod that shows hit counter
hearty yew
^^
lavish briar
some ppl don't even know there's a hit counter
opal barn
How about you finish LegendaryPlus 
sinful violet
wanton hemlock
It was a joke. I half-expected at least someone to say "but then it'll be easier!"
steep island
Shut mouth hple
crude quartz
~~Zach already has like 5 of those ~~
hearty yew
on the one hand there's more stress when you're like "omfg i only have 1 more hit"
vague olive
Pro: you dont need to debate if something counts as a hit or not
hearty yew
on the other hand it's nice to not have people be confused, given that nowhere in any in-game location is it explained that there is a hit counter
( until you die from it, and even then the message mentions leviathan instead of describing the mechanic itself )
crude quartz
might as well remove Earth’s ability to talk here then
plush void
does nebulash still do more dps than solar eruption?
crude quartz
oops
ashen warren
@soft grail with normal enemy I meant that they are not a boss, even when they are rare, pet drop rates should always be below 10% in my opinion.
sinful violet
shouldn't anymore
hearty yew
exactly.
wanton hemlock
Perhaps an onscreen hit counter could be something to be tested with Apoth & Friends before it gets rolled into the mod as an optional thing
opal barn
It would certainly help no hitters
crude quartz
like that mod actually tests new mod stuff 
vague olive
The hit counter could be toggleable on and off
wanton hemlock
Not particularly, but it tests some interesting ideas
opal barn
But as i've said, it might stress people out
ashen warren
Armageddon is better for nohitters
vague olive
Maybe work like cellphone components
opal barn
It is possible to "dodge" on Armageddon
ashen warren
i dont like armageddon tbh
sinful violet
A toggleable hit counter seems like what's the most popular idea for this.
ashen warren
i dont like the idea of immediately dying
wanton hemlock
what's Armageddon?
crude quartz
we didn’t care for your opinion on Armageddon
steep island
I'll just make a mod for it sometime soon
ruby cobalt
PogChamp
hearty yew
awesome, thanks zach
steep island
For a hitcounter
crude quartz
just bunch it in with Calamity Addon smh
ashen warren
The idea of armageddon is that the people that they to do the Untouchable role have better training
steep island
I'll do it when I'm finished doing another secret thing for the mod
ashen warren
apocalypse mode smh
or well in general more rewards for being untouchable etc
The thing is, the wiki claims that the hit counter is to "discourage the use of powerful equipment from other mods to trivialize the fight"
steep island
Hell no
ancient dragon
Well, the Asgard's Valor suggestion got ignored again.
That's nice. 
wanton hemlock
implying anything even comes close to Calamity's strongest stuff
steep island
Ultraconyx, fargos
ashen warren
@wanton hemlock apotheosis and friends disagrees
crude quartz
Endgame Thorium is p damn powerful too
opal barn
There are many modsthat surpass Calamityin opness
ashen warren
ultraconyx endgame stuff is stupidly overpowered
steep island
Cause it's meant to be
bitter topaz
universe of swords
ashen warren
heart of madness is pretty fucking strong lol
steep island
It literally has in the title of ultra "Overpowered items"
ashen warren
conyx mod when
hollow shell
#other-mod-talk . _.
opal barn
Smh people said not to meme here
ashen warren
What would be the best way to implement a legendary summoner weapon?
Would it be active or passive (You can attack with it or it summons minion)
What would the rightclick be?
Which boss would drop it?
opal barn
I had an idea where right click would increase the speed but decrease damage of the summon
ashen warren
legendary summon weapon i think is the most wanted suggestion rn
ruby cobalt
just give it a weaker active attack
bitter topaz
best one would probably be a drop from provi
ruby cobalt
as a r-click
gentle imp
Spirit already has one.
bitter topaz
maybe the normal attack would be 3 mini guardians