suggestions-discussion

[limber drift]

Bro I’m on spore sacs page this looks really bad

[indigo yacht]

it's probably meta in weaponless

[limber drift]

70 classeless damage and 5-10 seconds of a 6 dps debuff

[indigo yacht]

I'm kidding there's no fucking way it's anything above mid tier

[limber drift]

Also can only spawn near blocks and walls

[indigo yacht]

if the spores weren't limited by that i think it would instantly be twice as good and potentially worth using

maybe make them home faster too

[limber drift]

Wait it can only be up to 3 tiles away from blocks or need to be in front of walls

[limber drift]

Also like maybe don’t have it inflict a 6dps debuff post-plantera

[indigo yacht]

wilted rose emoji

[limber drift]

Make it inflict sage poison

I guess to fix shiny stone maybe give it some stat buffs alongside its affect and maybe make its effect much quicker or something

I have no clue how they could make volatile gelatin better though, unless like maybe rework it entirely to cause several of the gelatin blobs to be launched around you whenever you land with a cooldown like in qs’ fight

Also I do still wonder why neither betsy (who has a treasure bag) and cultist (being an objective boss) got expert mode exclusive items, but for some reason mourning wood does

[gaunt crystal]

is the shiny stone not pretty nice when farming?

[limber drift]

Wait hold on now that I think about it maybe they could also make royal gel or volatile gelatin make slimes like actually in some way like help you like how fairy boots cause nearby fairies to give you some stat bonuses

[limber drift]

Taking damage resets the healing speed so I doubt it would really be that good over actually good regeneration items

Wait hold on you can’t even attack with the shiny stone otherwise the regen speed will be reset omg this accessory actually sucks so bad

[drowsy plank]

bone helm is also good last i checked

the main issue with shiny stone is its one upgrade (camper) is turbo ass

this suggestion in general is just barely skirting the edge of legality because it is asking for changes to functionality rather than buffs

cause for some of these buffs would certainly be enough

but i just can't really see someone using shiny stone outside of AFK

and dont get me wrong, that's actually a fine niche to have, but if the suggestion wants more out of it, then alright

[limber drift]

Shiny stone would still suck afk cos getting hit causes the healing speed to be reset so like it can’t quickly heal you

Like getting hit is when you need to heal but that causes its speed to be reset so like it is really bad even while just afk

[drowsy plank]

have you tested this? 🤨

it is REALLY fast when ur standing still

[limber drift]

I have tried it before I think when I was like farming and like it didn’t really do anything

[drowsy plank]

aight

ngl it's really funny how much shiny stone gets outclassed by its base drop counterpart in cal

[limber drift]

But also an expert mode accesory only being useful while afk farming is also like kind of underwhelming

[drowsy plank]

eye of the golem goes crazy

tbf that is actually more of the norm

things like shield and brain and scarf are outliers

90% of expert accessories are shiny stone or bone helm or volatile gelatin or spore sac

[limber drift]

Not really I’d say like demon heart, soc, worm scarf, brain of cthulhu, soaring insignia, shrimpy truffle, witched broom are all fantastic

[drowsy plank]

ok but half of those aren't even accessories

if ur talking about items that compete with master mode drops that's a whole different discussion

[limber drift]

In vanilla it is like half the actual expert mode items

But like still brain, shield, insignia, scarf and starboard are all fantastic

Calamity gives gravity globe some buffs and like royal gel is kinda good when exploring certain biomes early game

Also hive pack like i guess is kinda useable with bee weapons if kind of niche but do work in conjunction with your other gear rather than like an entirely seperate and unmodifyable damage source like spore sac, bone helm and volatile gelatin

[half imp]

@limber drift we already do buff shiny stone

[limber drift]

Wait what

[half imp]

We add +2 HP/s to it at all times

Which makes it great

[limber drift]

Okay is that ever said in game

[half imp]

Yes

It's on the tooltip

[limber drift]

Oh huh i didn’t ever see that ok I guess I should removed it from my suggestion then

[half imp]

Volatile Gelatin and Spore Sac are the only ones here that are probably too weak

if volatile Gelatin applied sparkle slimed that'd be peak

Spore Sac just needs a numbers buff probably

[limber drift]

Also maybe make it like not have to spawn near blocks or walls also

Since it can only spawn spores within 3 tiles of a block or infront of walls which means you’d just have to fill you entire arena with walls just to use it effectively

[half imp]

Nah that's fine

it's not meant for bosses primarily anyway

It's a tool for enemies when exploring

[limber drift]

But can it please be given a buff better than 6 dps please

Poisoned on a post-plantera item is really bad

[half imp]

also the next major boss has walls anyway

it doesn't need a debuff at all tbh

giving it a major debuff just means picking weapons with that debuff with it is worse

ultimately gravity globe rework was an exception because the item was literally useless mechanically

these items are all functional but just weak

[limber drift]

Yeah gravity globe was completely useless cos like a prehardmode potion gave the same effects and like didn’t even use an acccsory slot

[half imp]

Yup

And it's not like there's any way to buff globe functionality on its own without just giving it new functionality

But hey, it was still better than release globe :D

(could only change gravity when not in the air)

[limber drift]

I will say there is something funny about how on the vanilla wiki volatile gelatin’s page basically says yeah this accessory sucks and you’ll definitely have better options

[craggy girder]

pull a dreadmine

have it spawn at the normal rate when not near a wall but slightly faster and slightly harder hitting if so

shred golem just a lil more

[limber drift]

The Golem obliteration chamber

[gaunt crystal]

does it?

well

[limber drift]

According to the vanilla wiki it does

[gaunt crystal]

I'd imagine it does if you aren't immune to knockback

[limber drift]

You also cant move, or use items, or get inflicted with bleeding

[half imp]

dreadmine doesn't do this

it ignores walls entirely

[gaunt crystal]

tbf that's partially because of how many bosses have mechanics or are designed to punish the player for standing still

[limber drift]

According to the wiki taking any damage resets its speed

[gaunt crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/terraria-calamity-infernum-devourer-of-gods-gif-4865767809351425630

culprit number one

[limber drift]

Isn’t that infernum dog

[gaunt crystal]

yes

but the same thing that punishes you for standing still is still there

also there's no gifs of normal DoG for some reason

[limber drift]

But also bosses like having things that punish standing still is like something that make sense to do since you aren’t actively dodging

[half imp]

anyway

[gaunt crystal]

I wasn't saying it didn't make sense

[half imp]

Shiny Stone is very good actually

[gaunt crystal]

I was saying that's the main issue with the camper

[half imp]

Even if you don't stay still it massively recovers natural regen

But yes, the camper sucks

[limber drift]

Is shiny stone main effect of the stationary healing speed at all why itd good in cal or is it just the +2 life regen

Also wait how do shiny stone and regenerator interact

[gaunt crystal]

personally I think a decent way to make the camper good is to make it give you a damage buff when standing still that rapidly vanishes as you move

[half imp]

It's good in general but great in cal

[limber drift]

Like I meant is it being good mainly thanks to the +2 life regen buff calamity gives it

Also like does the camper count as a donor item or like not since it wasn’t because of a donor but like the person did a challenge so like how would tweaking that be handled

[glass arch]

it would be dedicated

buffs to it are allowed but thats only a numbers tweak

[limber drift]

But like would reworking it need the dedicee’s permission or what

[glass arch]

no major reworks without the dedicatees permission

goes for basically everything that has the dedicated item tag

[half imp]

no, even without it it would be okay

niche, but ok

in cal rn it's just great... except radiant ooze exists

ooze is just stupid broken though

[glass arch]

the only exceptions are cases where the donor/dedicatee cannot be contacted but even thats a bit touchy iirc

[lucid marsh]

I do think the camper should be merged into the radiant ooze line, but with weaker versions of its effects

[limber drift]

That would definitely need the dedicee’s permission if it like got that change

[lucid marsh]

I mean yeah

[limber drift]

Wait looking at the camper it looks like such a bad item holy moly

I knew it wasn’t good but geeze this is really bad

[lucid marsh]

The stat buffs it gives are pretty high, no?

The life Regen especially

[limber drift]

GUYS IT GIVES FREAKING MINION KNOCKBACK FOR SUMMONER OH MY GOSH

Also like the held weapon buffs are just the buff stations (so pointless since you can just like click on them) and like melee also gets +10% melee speed (fine i guess), rogue only gets +10% projectile velocity and summoner gets for some reason minion knockback

[half imp]

Camper isn't donor

Just dedicated

[limber drift]

its dedicated though

[half imp]

It's only donor that requires permission always

[limber drift]

Oh okay then well then it really should be noticeably buffed since like its quite bad

wait hold on is this thing on the wiki right because like this sounds so attrocious and I'd assume very unintentional

[lucid marsh]

@glass arch hey you were wrong

[limber drift]

it is confusing what can and can't be changed without permision so it makes sense to be like a bit confused

[half imp]

This was fixed

Notice how it still says 90%

It's 0.5x now not 0.1x

it was given a major buff in 2.1

[limber drift]

Oh that explains it huh

Honestly I kinda feel like maybe making each class’ bonus not just the respective class station and actually like stat buffs to each class (that are good not +10% minion knockback) and maybe even tuning the damage decrease to not be halving your damage maybe like -30% since that would sound at least slightly less atrocious

Like maybe +10% melee speed still, +10% ranged critical strike chance, -10% mana consumption (probably more but as an example), +10% whip range and maybe still +10% rogue projectile velocity

[glass arch]

@unreal star server suggestions go to @sonic torrent

[unreal star]

oh is that so?

ok didn’t realize that

thanks for clearing that up

[gaunt trout]

One thing gng like litterally none that I can think of

[vocal wedge]

If Calamitas were to appear before her fight, it certainly could not occur that often.

Especially not at points on the plot where she actively thinks you are evil and would want to kill you.

Or that early for that matter.

[keen zodiac]

@tiny wave more boss integration into the general game is planned

[tiny wave]

My point is to make her feel like a character it doesn’t have to be too crazy

There’s probably a different way to do it too

[craggy girder]

to be honest not showing the threat directly is often effective

for example, Azafure is, in theory, VERY good pre-scal "woah. what happened here" showing

note: in theory

[vocal wedge]

If she were to appear, it probably would not be more than brief, and she would likely not be identified as Calamitas until after the fact.

[tiny wave]

Yeah probably just named as “???”

[vocal wedge]

That's taken.

Cal E. Mighty will return.

[tiny wave]

Maybe distorted text?

[vocal wedge]

Why would there be distorted text?

[tiny wave]

Idk I’m just tossing ideas out there

I’m actually curious now, do most people here view her as a villain or like a rival that we have?

[craggy girder]

she is objectively not free of sin but she is not of yharim's cruelty/villany

they're kinda just there

[vocal wedge]

Well if they knew she was Calamitas they'd be terrified as she wiped a country off the map.

Then she learns about you and your exploits and gets horrified because she thinks you will be Yharim Jr. so she ambushes you.

But Calamitas is neither a villain nor a rival of the player.

[lucid marsh]

Calamitas is kinda a villain

Just not as much anymore

[hollow shell]

@tiny wave Your suggestion should focus more on the why and less on the how

You should elaborate on and emphasize the issues with the current state of things

And you don't need to specify cutscenes as the way of doing it, there are other ways to build her up as a character, give her more presence throughout the game

[gaunt trout]

Hopefully if the new background suggestion for Azafure gets added that would help greatly

Also check my suggestion I gave a little more cause and alternative suggestions if anyone’s actually interested

[keen zodiac]

it appears to be too long now

1k character limit

[gaunt trout]

Oh come on

[limber drift]

Wait what does the green tick in the suggestion voting channel mean

Wait did my life alloy suggestion like get accepted?

[frail fox]

Oh my god bruh

@north oracle can you remove that I accidentally did it

[north oracle]

good job GPS

[frail fox]

Kill discord

[mossy pelican]

I got tired of accidentally double tap reacting so I disabled it

[humble scarab]

Yea, it sucks

[whole tundra]

@tiny wave as Rover said already, there should be more explanation for why it should be added.
Additionally, Draedon can be omitted from the post due to the Exos fight being intended as the same tier as SCal.

[vocal wedge]

Same for Yharon since after you beat Yharon Calamitas is open to fight.

[spare bison]

something something lore implementation something something

[spare bison]

WHY ARE YOU STILL ME

[spare bison]

Something to do with Calamitas having more presence i think will inevitably happen at some point in the mod

SHe does kinda just show up out of nowhere right now and dosen't give the player time to connect or learn about the character

[gilded citrus]

Thats cheese not bug tester wdym

[spare bison]

but also it is a hefty task since it'd require not just writing dialogue but also likely code for any unique interactions or behaviors or cutscenes , plus proper planning and discussions in regard to what it should be like

aswell as the possibility of new assets if they're needed for whatever reason

[royal tapir]

This is @spare bison’s fault

[errant wren]

hi cit how are you

[serene tendon]

Yeah whenever the line "but you know what she tried to sacrifice" comes up in the song I'm like "No I freaking don't, I met this woman two minutes ago and she hasn't even introduced herself"

[keen zodiac]

the lyrics aren't canon anyway

[kind laurel]

You're saying SCal isn't spitting bars as she jumps you while having a panic attack???

[spare bison]

Tbf the lyrics aren't really applicable to the story regardless yeah

they're based of an old version of it before it was rewritten

but still, point stands. there isnt enough for the player ot really get to know or form a meaningful connection with the character since she just kinda shows up at the end of a playthrough with not much prior

it'll be addressed Eventually ™

[vocal wedge]

She learned from her old man, Permafrost, the greatest rapper in history.

[errant wren]

He was normally always chill with it, though he was so cold with his bars, they called it frostburn.

[drowsy plank]

@gaunt trout #1178515062030348308

[lucid marsh]

Speaking of art attack

@drowsy plank I reported a significant bug with certain weapons months ago but no one ever looked at it

Can you like. Please take a look at it

Or someone

[drowsy plank]

no

[lucid marsh]

Dang

[drowsy plank]

im not a dev

[lucid marsh]

Nevermind then. Hopefully it was a driver issue that I've fixed with my new OS

[drowsy plank]

aight gl with that

you might have more luck asking an actual dev like doze or smthn lmao

[gaunt trout]

Shit I forgot

I deleted it

They were going to do it regardless anyway right?

[drowsy plank]

prolly

[indigo yacht]

i was going to point out the suggestion i made but i think it died during the purge so nvm

[limber drift]

I will say while I don’t really feel like the half and half stat modifiers as a whole are that good these three objectively kinda suck since they like literally are worse than their 2 components seperate

[keen zodiac]

how did the scal suggestion not get flagged

[limber drift]

yeah that does feel like it probably should’ve been

[indigo yacht]

they're not

let's not pretend the lack of 0.05 luck is a dealbreaker

[limber drift]

Okay but spiked is just worse

[indigo yacht]

you can use them for hyperoptimizing damage builds

no

er yes

spiked is worse all these stupid modifiers sound the same

[limber drift]

Spiked is worse by a decent margin and the luck is a minor thing but like they all do loose stats so I listed them all

[indigo yacht]

is this a good reason to have 22 reforges instead of 7 where half of them are STILL useless? no

but it is a use

[limber drift]

I do feel like the idea of making all accesory reforges useful is interesting but like a lot of them are just bloat

[indigo yacht]

truth nuke

this suggestion does not count as regarding upcoming content because the wording in the document specifically refers to calamity content and 1.4.5 is an update this is already out just not yet on tmodloader

plus it's only using it as a piece of the reasoning

[fleet grotto]

iwguess you could technically say it's for upcoming content because it would really only make sense in tbe context of calamity in 1.4.5 but i think that's a stretch

[indigo yacht]

not really, saying that "this pylon requires villagers to get but not to use, which is annoying" is valid reasoning on its own

[drowsy plank]

throw the pylon into crags lava!!!!!!!

[plush flame]

specifically only the universal one

gotta make people work for it yknow

[drowsy plank]

anyway no i mean you shouldnt be mentioning 1.4.5 content either

that's still violating the future content rule

[novel belfry]

no hold it for a second

[drowsy plank]

like in general you shouldnt be using future versions of terraria as logic for changes on the current version of calamity, that's how the rule works. i think the more important thing though is this suggestion works perfectly fine without that still

[obsidian nova]

Honestly I think just having a crags pylon in one of the two crags chests would be a good enough way to obtain it

[half imp]

I don't

that's both a little too easy and also just kinda boring

Repairing a broken crags pylon would be cooler

[craggy girder]

that would be cool yeah

then again spriter/builder hell but atp they gotta make Something

(unrelated but the argument of "spriter hell" doesnt often feel like a good one.)

[mossy pelican]

You go try and get sprites for all the ideas then

Spriters already got their hands full to my knowledge

[craggy girder]

is that not the point of asset submissions

"hey guys! we've been swamped with spritework recently and have decided to let you guys try your hand at spriting for Calamity Mod!"
insert a basic explanation

lets the spriters do their spritework AND lets stuff progress

[mossy pelican]

Its mostly meant as a joke because half the suggestions need spriting if im not mistaken

[craggy girder]

bc otherwise saying "spriter hell" feels like "the spriters are not doing anything and are the only holdgap" compared to "the spriters are busy"

[craggy girder]

i get the joke part of it; it should not be the only part that halts a sugg

at least in my eyes .

[mossy pelican]

Spriter hell sounds more to me like “The spriters are getting more work piled onto them when they’re already buried”

[craggy girder]

i see three people talking at once and know that i have poked the bear

[drowsy plank]

yeah and the devs dont accept new sprites (as in for items that doesnt exist), never use assets-needed, and rarely actually accept sprites that are submitted there so "spriter hell" will be valid until either more spriters are onboarded, or the infrastructure is actually used

[craggy girder]

this sounds like a flaw of the devs not the spriters

[mossy pelican]

Cog is better educated on this than me, im just talking from what I can see

[mossy pelican]

Therefore, it is hell for the spriters

[craggy girder]

same here, i speak from viewing not from knowledge

[drowsy plank]

if you're saying the issue is the devs and not the spriters in calart then yes that is exactly what i am saying

[craggy girder]

why is the focus on the spriters if they're the innocent party

[drowsy plank]

there are spriters who are devs too

[craggy girder]

dev bureacracy suffering if anything

[crude geode]

Godslayer Hoverboard is certainly the story of all time

[drowsy plank]

and spriter hell is referring to development hell

[drowsy plank]

https://tenor.com/view/higuruma-hiromi-higuruma-jujutsu-kaisen-jujutsu-kaisen-meme-jjk-memes-gif-10370496866020481076

[craggy girder]

isnt godslayer hoverboard a donor item or

[drowsy plank]

no it doesnt exist

it was going to be the counterpart to silva wings

[crude geode]

Planned for like a few years atp

[craggy girder]

oh i see

whys it a story of all time

[plush flame]

how would you even powercreep starboard

[craggy girder]

just make it a horizontally focused wing compared to silvas vertical, for Yharon

[drowsy plank]

starboard was bugged for the longest time so i dont think people really thought about it much

[gilded citrus]

What did the bug do

[plush flame]

yeah how was it bugged

[drowsy plank]

halved dash momentum i think

it's been forever

[plush flame]

oh

thought that was an intentional part of the 6x deaccel that eventually got removed

[craggy girder]

oh right you can dash with wings

[drowsy plank]

lmao??

[craggy girder]

dude i mentally consider starboard a mount

bc its hover is just so ass for me to use

[drowsy plank]

no because in vanilla dashes still worked normally

it was specifically something to do with tmod and/or cal i dont remember

[half imp]

No, it was unintentional

Vanilla starboard disables the 6x decel for 1 second after dashing

Calamity dashes didn't set the time since last dash started variable

[limber drift]

What is the “black void” this suggestion is referring to like I’m a little confused and don’t fully recall what calamity does to deerclops

[indigo yacht]

it's a vanilla feature

[limber drift]

No? Theres no black void in vanilla unless you either mean the distance where deerclops can’t be hit from or the hands

Like if it is needing to be close to hit her I don’t know how that makes there be “unfair” hits

[tame vigil]

deerclops in cal makes the entire area except where she can actively be hit a black void shortly after she spawns. honestly we really should revist that effect it's caused a lot of problems

[limber drift]

Does it like deal any damage or is it just visual

[indigo yacht]

she spawns the hands on you

[deft yew]

honestly you really should revisit that entire rev boss it's a lot of problems

[limber drift]

I’m gonna be honest deerclops even in vanilla is also very flawed except in classic since the random shadow hands suck so bad but like in classic mode they only show up if you try to cheese her by staying above her so like shes actually kinda fun

[deft yew]

i think classic clops specifically is the *second best vanilla boss next to duke in general

[limber drift]

She is actually a fun boss fight if the random shadow hands didn’t exist but they take her so dar down in terms of fun in the fight

[half imp]

is rev deerclops even very different than classic anymore

[half imp]

hence classic mode

[half imp]

It's still the same two horizontal one centered ice spikes

[glass arch]

dont think so

it has more snow rubble and it has the expert mode random shadow hands iirc but other than that i dont believe it has any changes

[half imp]

random shadow hands died afaik

[glass arch]

wiki says this

[half imp]

is this updated post 2.1

But also yeah that doesn't list random shadow hands

[glass arch]

maybe

[half imp]

it has shadow hand patterns

but that's very very different than the expert shadow hands

[glass arch]

ok yeah

it doesnt do the random shadow hands

[half imp]

like rev deerclops is just classic deerclops with more intense anti cheese

From my understanding

[royal tapir]

Rev Deerclops also attempts to use other attacks if it keeps doing the ice spike attack, though it's kinda bad at making that actually disrupt the fight pattern

[deft yew]

rev deerclops is just classic deerclops but weird

really weird

and stronger anticheese yeah

[sleek turret]

the hands are a bit weird

[grave zinc]

@limber drift - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Re-theme one of the sand elementals in a bottles to be nature elemental themed]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@indigo yacht - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Clarify that Odd Mushroom is an epilepsy risk]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@lucid marsh - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make the Drill Containment Unit inherit your pickaxe power]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[limber drift]

Lets go

Heart of the elementals will finally actually represent SiIva maybe

[keen zodiac]

spriter_hell.gif

[limber drift]

We need to kill the excess boob woman now

She only exists cos fabstupid wanted a woman with bigger boobs she has no real reason to exist as a second sand one while we could have one representing the other elemental

[keen zodiac]

but their bust size is the same?

[craggy girder]

the sands have bust size???

i thought they were flat

[limber drift]

No thats why two sand elemental accessories exist cos fabshit and the spriter argued about how much booba to give them

[keen zodiac]

you really think fab would let that slide?

[craggy girder]

fab gets to be a freak abt all the other elementals

[limber drift]

Rare sand is kind of flat now without distinct breasts while non-rare still has noticable breasts

[craggy girder]

sand i thought was the only one that does not

since ik the rest do

[keen zodiac]

i guess the originals are slightly different

[limber drift]

All of them except rare sand have very distinct breasts

[keen zodiac]

though not really bigger, just more definition

[elder beacon]

it ain't flat, it just has a thing over them

idk if you can it clothing

[limber drift]

I kinda through that was like her shoulders and chest and that like it was like a cool part of her body

[craggy girder]

yea i always thought that was a poncho

[elder beacon]

not a poncho but like

something in the vein of this

[keen zodiac]

yeah

[golden kayak]

im not sure about how it is in rev but anticheese is overcooked in death rn, i cant jump over the guy half the time without getting the anticheese attack triggered

for how much of a nonsensical gimmick boss it is, that doesnt even drop anything, its a fight that now requires more prep and/or arena than any boss before in progression (actual arena instead of 1 meter of platform above ground)

[limber drift]

Can you walk through her legs without triggering anything since you can walk through her legs

[golden kayak]

yes

first attack it does is usually partly/fully invisible too but im sure thats intended

[worthy lintel]

deerslop fight matches well the quality of the game she comes from

[tiny minnow]

It’s a punishing game sure but it’s not that bad

[prime turtle]

ik its a month old but regarding the permafrost changes i think giving him something defensive would suit him better if you dont want him fighting enemies

maybe encase himself in ice like permafrosts concoction

not like enemies ever had a shot at killing him, but it'd look less silly than him standing there and taking it

[fleet grotto]

he starts doing contact damage to enemies like a thorns potion

[safe gorge]

i've had that as a personal headcanon about him for a while, when i saw that suggestion i thought about doing a little drawing of it and posting it here but i never got around to it
glad someone else sees the vision!

he's just like nope. i don't wanna deal with this, so i'm encasing myself in a glacier

[indigo yacht]

i mean last time he got encased in ice it didnt go so well for him

[safe gorge]

true...

might be somewhat traumatic

"...I was simply trying to shield myself by hiding in an impenetrable magical ice construct, like I have done dozens of times before when under attack. Why does it feel so viscerally... frightening now?"
"...Oh. Right."

i know him saying he doesn't like making his homes with ice magic anymore is referencing older lore where cryogen was part of a sick ass ice palace he was placed under permanent, magical house arrest in, but i think it still works well as a deadpan reference to cryogen. he's had enough living in ice for one lifetime, thanks.

[grave zinc]

@indigo yacht - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Clarify that Odd Mushroom is an epilepsy risk]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[limber drift]

Wait didn’t this already get in

Yeah what why is it here again

Is the suggestion bot bugging out again

[indigo yacht]

I'm stupid and it wanted to make sure I didn't forget

[drowsy plank]

empress of light rogue weapon coming with yharim

[indigo yacht]

@gaunt trout this suggestion is probably not invalid but i would still remove the part about "well functioning rogue weapon that does respectable damage" and all

[drowsy plank]

(real and definitely not a joke)

[indigo yacht]

it's kind of just unnecessary and makes it sound more specific than you intend

[gaunt trout]

Ok

[indigo yacht]

personally i would remove everything that sentence and onward and replace it with "potential implementations could be" then list the kunai idea and anything else you thought of

since you're allowed to give examples

[drowsy plank]

you should also remove "hope this will be considered"

[gaunt trout]

I mean I am just tryna make it sound a bit more formal n that but ok

[drowsy plank]

that makes it sound the opposite of formal because these are not letters

[indigo yacht]

for what it's worth I like this suggestion

eol is my favorite theme boss and prismatic kunai sound cool

[gaunt trout]

Well in my eyes it seems kinda similar but whatever

[drowsy plank]

i like the suggestion so much i know they were already planning to implement one at some point before it got shafted

[gaunt trout]

Yeah i get where dog is coming from

Cog

[drowsy plank]

lmao

[gaunt trout]

Thx

[indigo yacht]

wilted rose emoji

[drowsy plank]

anyway yeah this was something the devs already wanted to do at one point but the person working on it isn't on the team anymore i think so

[indigo yacht]

devourer of cogs

[drowsy plank]

coming 20XX

[indigo yacht]

was it a rogue eol weapon in general or the kunai thing specifically

lance

[drowsy plank]

rogue eol weapon

[indigo yacht]

ah

nightglow if it was good 🥹

[gaunt trout]

The idea is that it mirrors the ethereal lance attack that shoots the telegraphed light swords at you

[limber drift]

I will say with the rogue empress weapon there are quite a few terraria bosses which also just lack a direct rogue drop while having other class weapon drops being empress, betsy, deerclops, plantera, golem and also ogre (even though there a mini-boss),

[lucid marsh]

I don't remember for sure but don't a bunch of rogue weapons have boring crafting recipes?

Yeah seems like it

Oh, and these are even worse:

At least half of these could be dropped by bosses instead

[limber drift]

The thing is then the bandit would have a lot less reason to exist if they were all dropped by bosses and stuff but like a ton of these should not be sold by them because how the hell did they get some dragon scales

[lucid marsh]

Ok then

Kill the bandit

The bandit never had a good reason to exist in the first place

[limber drift]

Do not due that they have the nice refunding thing and also NB npc rep is nice

[lucid marsh]

Oh right

But then again

[limber drift]

Also like similar things could be said about the arms dealer since like the items could be obtained in other ways or crafted

[lucid marsh]

The goblin refund can just be replaced by a discount at the goblin merchant

The arms dealer feels cool and has some interesting stuff. The bandit is just... A place to shove items for rogue

[limber drift]

No thats also what the arms dealer is though just shoving gun stuff that they didn’t want to make like craftable

[lucid marsh]

I guess

[gaunt trout]

Bandit is apparently getting lore sometime in the future according to the lore doc

So uhhh

Maybe we can remove some of the stuff from her shop but we still probably wanna keep her

[limber drift]

Bandit is nonbinary and is refered to as they/them

[gaunt trout]

I guessed based off of them sorta looking like a woman

I feel like they surely are right

[limber drift]

What do you mean by “They are right” like what do you think is right i’m confused

[gaunt trout]

Like they are a woman mb

Biologically anyway

[limber drift]

We have no real reason to like assume that? Also like it wouldn’t matter relly they’re nonbinary

[gaunt trout]

Yh u right

[keen zodiac]

@solid ermine suggestions about future content are not allowed

i suggest reading the pinned doc

[hollow shell]

Indeed, you're not supposed to make suggestions about things like the Yharim fight which don't even exist yet

Also your suggestion is entirely the "what"/"how", and includes no "why" whatsoever

Suggestions should be almost entirely "why"
You should explain why this is a good idea, not explain how it could be executed (that's for the devs to decide)

[lucid marsh]

Besides not being allowed, this suggestion also makes no sense

Like, there's no circumstance where yharon would do that, or where yharim would do that

[solid ermine]

Sorry, haven't thought that it is that litteraly(i read it)

Sorry sorry

[hollow shell]

It's alright
This is why we have #suggestions-posting as a filter/review channel, before suggestions end up finalized in #suggestions-voting

#suggestions-posting message Yeah I'm not opposed to this sugg

Early BR stages kinda feel like "what are we even doing here" levels of easy
Just, obligatory filling out a checklist

Not like a Boss Rush in other games which don't have as extreme powerscaling for the player, or have more long-term resource management between the bosses such that you'd get whittled down

So
at the very least getting through them quicker and having the novelty of multiple bosses at once, could be nice

[pulsar marlin]

I really wish Empress of Light had her own rogue weapon

[worthy fractal]

why

there are things that should be killed but not bandit

[limber drift]

Calamity only has 4 npcs currently and 3 of them are like important to lore loosing the only minor npc would be like odd since like there really is no reason to remove them

[indigo yacht]

i think you're overestimating how useful most vanilla npcs are tbh

[kind laurel]

You could just have an actually meaningful NB NPC replace them
Or just rework the bandit to actually be impactful instead of just selling random items + a QoL that comes off as bordering "I don't like playing this game" QoL to me at least

At least Witch Doctor sells fountains even though he's the Summoner guy

imo most of the bandit's stock later in the game is just "hey I'm an important NPC don't forget about me please"

[vocal wedge]

I mean Bandit is just meant to be a class based NPC like Arms Dealer and Wizard.
Sure, they don't need to sell only weapons, that should probably be changed.

[prime turtle]

i mean they dont sell only weapons

they have old die, momentum capacitor, the two gloves, venerated locket and dragon scales, and bears eye

oh also thiefs dime, ethereal extorter and, for some reason, tiger climbing gear

[kind laurel]

okay but those are all mostly rogue accessories

[prime turtle]

out of the 15 things bandit sells, 5 are weapons

[kind laurel]

pretty forgettable ones at that save for the gloves

[prime turtle]

(i think the gloves are pretty crap honestly)

[kind laurel]

I mean the others are just extra projectiles iirc

don't even tinker into other stuff

[prime turtle]

more useful than glove of precision

[kind laurel]

By concept at least the gloves are more interesting

[prime turtle]

there is an argument to be made that reckless glove is better for stealth rogue than precise glove

anyways while some of these should be craftable (namely the lategame accs) i dont think the thief falling off in usefulness or even being useless outright for most classes is a big deal

[kind laurel]

Anyway, Momentum Capacitator could be sold by Cyborg (and make more sense to boot,) Tiger Climbing gear is QoL< and the rogue accessories are just kind of meaningless and at worst could be craftable like you said

Old die and the coin are neat yeah but I don't know if two items can make an NPC

[prime turtle]

as stated above most npcs are not particularily important

[humble scarab]

yes cuz its rogue npc

like arms dealer

[prime turtle]

arms dealer only sells gun shit and wizard largely only sells mage shit but theyre fine as-is

[kind laurel]

the coin could really just be pirates though and the old die is getting overlapped by 1.4.5 vanilla features since luck is more important in the update

[prime turtle]

is it

[kind laurel]

Crystal Ball, Ice Rod, etc

Arms dealer is at least the only reliable source of Musket Balls

[prime turtle]

the ice rod, and a craft station for the new cosmetic blocks, and the endless ammo accs

so 2 classes instead of 1, my apologies

[kind laurel]

old die is just worse Lucky Clover

[prime turtle]

can just make it do something else

[kind laurel]

I'm not saying reworking Bandit and related stuff is off the table I'm just saying that removal wouldn't hurt the game much

[prime turtle]

i feel like it'd be lame as hell if all the npcs added by calamity were just My Super Cool OP OCs

bandit kinda grounds things a little by being another rando

[kind laurel]

That's fair

I still think that Bandit in their current state is a bit meaningless though

[prime turtle]

most npcs are anyways

hell, you only use amidias for abyss bubble

and permafrost is kinda just selling an assortment of weapons mostly

which could prob be made craftable with cryonic bars and some kind of frost moon drop for the post frost moon ones

and half the vanilla npcs most people seldom talk to

[drowsy plank]

make new clover die that works from the inventory....

[prime turtle]

like you might buy somethin from the stylist like once

[drowsy plank]

and give plus TWO luck..........

[kind laurel]

isn't base clover already three

[prime turtle]

i think old die should interact with crit because my brain keeps assuming it does til i reread the desc

[drowsy plank]

oh right die is 0.02 luck and clover is 0.03 luck

[prime turtle]

and also rogue cares a lot about crit since regular dmg ups dont impact a stealth rogue

[drowsy plank]

so 0.05 luck

same idea i just forgot how the luck stat worked for a minute lmao

wait no

old die is 0.2

clover is 0.03

[kind laurel]

oh

that's a lot actually

[prime turtle]

i knew somethin was off about the numbers you were sayin

[drowsy plank]

it's the same as torch and coin luck in terms of modifiers
and 4x more potent than any other luck accessory in base game

[vocal wedge]

While it does make sense you could make the argument that Amidias does not know Calamitas will attack you.

[kind laurel]

wait does the guide have any Cal-added tips?

since players might be using Amidias to find their next fight

[vocal wedge]

He does have some new dialogue.

"Seems like extinguishing that butterfly caused its life to seep into the hallowed areas, try taking a peek there and see what you can find!"
"I've heard the Dragon Cult has something locked in the Dungeon they use to power their hexes, apparently messing with it can lead you to another world..."
(He has another line but it's not an actual hint.)

[kind laurel]

nothing about endgame though so new point added to post

[half imp]

dropping from bosses is way worse than being bought

also like none of those make sense to drop from bosses anyway

Maybe Ven locket?

[dense locust]

extorter retiered to post polter clearly

[kind laurel]

Semi-unrelated but Ven Locket is weird to since it gives an air of being lore important but isn't at all

[dense locust]

reaper could technically be a moon lord drop ig

[half imp]

no there isn't

Glove of Precision is very very good

[prime turtle]

10% crit

and 15% velocity

is 15% velocity that good

[half imp]

Recklessness reduces crit

[prime turtle]

by 5

[half imp]

Precision increases crit

[prime turtle]

and im alr critmaxxing either way

[dense locust]

how would recklessness ever be better for stealth rogue

it litterally is bad for you in every single way

[prime turtle]

15% stealth gen

and the only downside is 5% crit

[half imp]

And reduced attack speed, which increases stealth strike damage

[dense locust]

stealth gen is not particularly good for stealth rogue

[prime turtle]

i forgot about that part

[half imp]

And the increased attack speed reduces stealth damage

[dense locust]

increased stealth gen and increased attack speed both reduce your damage

[half imp]

And the inaccuracy is REALLY BAD for Stealth

[prime turtle]

okay my bad there but tbf this is all poorly communicated either way

[half imp]

stealth really really needs accuracy

[prime turtle]

i still dislike both accessories designs

[dense locust]

^

[prime turtle]

depends on the weapon

[half imp]

yeah, true

but in general it wants accuracy

[dense locust]

anyway glove of recklessness is barely viable for spam let alone stealth

[indigo yacht]

welcome to rogue

[half imp]

Recklessness vs Precision is fun idea with poor execution

[prime turtle]

i think both gloves kinda blow tbh

[dense locust]

gop is very good

[half imp]

saying precision is bad for stealth is just flat out untrue

it's very strong

[dense locust]

not in terms of design but it is undeniably very strong

[half imp]

^

[prime turtle]

i could be underestimating how impactful the attack speed down is

[half imp]

it's 10% crit up, attack speed down, increased velocity

[dense locust]

even without that its like
what does rogue have thats better

[prime turtle]

abaddon is 2% less crit and adds brimflame dot so you can save the flask for smth else

[half imp]

old die has some ideas behind it

[prime turtle]

and after a few bosses from when precision is available it upgrades to void of extinction

[dense locust]

thank god voe line isnt real

[prime turtle]

so its entirely hinging on the attack speed down being enough of a dmg up for gop to beat aba/voe

[dense locust]

with how blatently overpowered Abaddon is currently it probably is competitive with gop but that is absolutely a point of aba just being insanely overtuned rather than gop being not good

[half imp]

Abaddon is so silly

[dense locust]

abaddon is a big part of the reason I want to redo acc tl ngl

[dense locust]

why the fuck do they have 55 base damage 😭

[prime turtle]

i mean outside of it i think a rogue would probably also just start defensemaxxing

you got your wings, your necessity class stuff, your dash, and then what

generic offense trinkets suck for you

[kind laurel]

I apologize but wdym by tl?

[dense locust]

tier list

[kind laurel]

oh

makes sense

[prime turtle]

you dont care about armor pen, you dont care about damage ups, so even ignoring aba/voe youd just stop taking damage accs probably

[plush flame]

#suggestions-posting message souls dlc does something kinda like this

[dense locust]

indeed it does

it is admittedly marginally less bad

but still bad

[plush flame]

it also skips everything preml which helps

[kind laurel]

Every pre-HM boss all at once

[tiny minnow]

Except Deerclops.

[mossy pelican]

Especially deerclops

[drowsy plank]

deerclops's section just has 3 deerclops

[kind laurel]

Boss rush now entirely consists of Deerclops with increasing numbers and stats

[limber drift]

I know this is late but like dragon scales not being a yharon drop or craft is quite odd especially since theres no reasoning behind how bandit got it

Honestly the 3 post-moon lord items do feel weird to be sold by just a like a common thief/bandit type person since like how the hell did they get their hands on them

Also deep wounder is weird cos it looks like a post-anahita abyss item but like its sold by the bandit after calamitas clone (probably cos calamitas clone previously unlocked the hardmode abyss stuff anahita now does)

[worthy lintel]

yharon shed a scale while flying and bandit picked it up...

deep lore

[hollow shell]

(did I get pinged?)

[limber drift]

On a related note to the bandit is it just me or is late pre-hardmode rogue kind of boring feeling, cos like it feels like there are so few cool unique options and no like night’s edge counterpart for some reason, and like it feels like all the items at that tier are so generic and like not as “fantastic” as some of the other class’ options

[glass arch]

we need fewer nights edge counterparts actually

melee has enough for the rest of the classes

[fleet grotto]

i wouldn't say there's really too many fantastical weapons at that teir in general

tier

[limber drift]

Also like the fact that rogue has no real mid-late pre hardmode rogue exclusive sets and like has to use statigel feels so lame to me

[fleet grotto]

well neither does mage

meteor I guess? sure?

[limber drift]

Metorite is at least post evils 1

[fleet grotto]

but a bit of a stretch imo

[glass arch]

melee doesnt either because of meteor being a stretch

[fleet grotto]

i think i was captured by the vibes

help me

[glass arch]

does summoner even have a prehardmode exclusive armor set past preboss

[limber drift]

Rogues pre-hardmode exclusively rogue sets are all only post eye at the latest whereas all other classes have an armour after evils 1

[limber drift]

Yeah? Bee armour and obsidian armour?

[glass arch]

ngl i forgot about those

[frail fox]

Fire

[limber drift]

Also I will say why the hell does metal monstrosity exist like it looks so I guess bad imo

[frail fox]

Very funny item

[glass arch]

one of the spiky ball clones had to not die

[deft yew]

Metal Monstrosity is NOT a spiky ball

[limber drift]

Its sprite genuinely looks so old and like does not fit with the artstyle of terraria and arguably even modern calamity imo

[glass arch]

it is

[indigo yacht]

immaculate recipe

[limber drift]

It explodes into spiky balls but like is debatably one itself

[deft yew]

Then any weapon that uses another weapon as a material is the material

[glass arch]

all it does is just spawn 3 spiky balls on hit its such a bad item i hate it

[limber drift]

Hear me out remove it and add a fire-themed spiky ball found in shadow chests

[fleet grotto]

I believe the wiki classifies it as a spiky ball

[frail fox]

If it gets removed the item replacing it would be anything but a spiky ball

[deft yew]

I do think that Metal Monstrosity is very random-bullcrap-you-just-slapped-together-core and that rogue should do more of that theme

[fleet grotto]

hornet silksong

actually that makes a lot of sense hornet would definitely be a rogue

[glass arch]

its a hilariously tierskippable item

[deft yew]

I like the “rogue” class’s philosophy being that anything is a weapon if you throw it really hard

[glass arch]

in concept its good but in practice god i hate it so much hatred hatred hatred

[fossil finch]

metal monstrosity should be honored it has a fables version

[glass arch]

metal monstrosity can be killed fables has it and its probably better there

[fossil finch]

probably the only thing it has ever done for the world is maybe being the reason spiked ball is a thing and probably not even and its just coincidence

[glass arch]

i have seen one singular person ever be excited about metal monstrosity and thats because you can get it early so its just a post skeletron rogue weapon

[dense locust]

Sorry it’s not sky stabber levels of terrible we’re keeping it
(I have no idea what the plans for it are if they even exist)

[limber drift]

Can we actually kill all rogue spiky balls and replace them all with actually interesting rogue weapon ideas than trying to turn the one off vanilla spiky balls into a whole group

[frail fox]

I can assure there there 0 plans for it

[dense locust]

Huge

[frail fox]

Already happening

Just look at how most of them died in 2.1

[glass arch]

there used to be so many more

[limber drift]

Like maybe keep like 2 so like it can still be a small group kind of like a small weapon group but like almost all of them could die

[indigo yacht]

nasty cholla are necessary for the mod

[royal tapir]

The crusade

[frail fox]

Hell’s Sun

The demon

[royal tapir]

Because it was sent directly to hell

[dense locust]

There’s only like 2 classic spiky balls left right

[frail fox]

System’s Bane 💔

[dense locust]

Litterally just ori gemstone and the fuck off draedon weapon

[glass arch]

sky stabber, bouncy spiky ball, sticky spiky ball, hell's sun, and nychthemeron

and probably more i forgot the names of

[frail fox]

All the remaining living ones are fine or will be effectively replaced by an entirely different weapon eventually

[limber drift]

I dunno if I’d call metal monstrosity “fine” but yeah the other ones are i guess fine

[frail fox]

Metal Monstrosity is fine compared to 75% of Rogue probably

[limber drift]

But hear me out replace burning strife with like maybe a dagger, and still keep it inficting shadowflame that’d be a great rogue weapon

[glass arch]

nasty cholla i would say remove but flymeal is annoying as shit to obtain

[royal tapir]

Nasty Cholla is good

[royal tapir]

Burning Strife and Gods’ Paranoia functionally are not spiky balls

[frail fox]

Cholla is good since rogue needs early game weapons that people can actually fine or something

[limber drift]

I will say genuinely I’d say burning strife visually being a spiky ball actually is totally fine since like its a goblin army related item and thats where spiky balls are obtained so it works fine as looking like one

[frail fox]

Yes that’s true and why I’m fine with it being that (even if it’s functionally different)

Was gonna say I had an idea for Metal Monstrosity but that’s just Glaive again 🙂‍↕️

[limber drift]

Partially related but calamity adding nights edge counterparts for ranger, summoner and mage but for some reason not adding one for rogue is baffling to me, like especially since theres already equivalents for rogue daggers for 3/4 of the ingredients of the nights edge with spore knife, infernal kris and shinobi blade

[frail fox]

Well Spore Knife didn’t exist until 2.1 but yes

[limber drift]

Nights edge spiky ball for rogue

[frail fox]

Night’s Monstrosity

[limber drift]

Also it is weird how like for some reasons scythes are weirdly focused for rogue like it feels weird for scythes to be thrown like idk it just feels weird to me, like why is one of the miracle matter rogue weapons a scythe instead of like an actual boomerang, or dagger or javelin, etc.

[dense locust]

Weirdly what?

[limber drift]

Like idk but like scythes being a weapon you throw just like feels completely random like in most media I’ve scene when they do get used as weapons they’re melee

[frail fox]

Weirdly stealthed

[half imp]

Metal monstrosity, Burning Strife, and Nastly Cholla are the three that make sense to be semi traditional spiky balls imo

Metal Monstrosity is Literally a Spike Ball

burning strife is a goblin rogue weapon

and cactus are pokey

[tame vigil]

ace's high is a rogue weapon

[deft yew]

Does fantasy talisman count as a throwing knife?

[gaunt trout]

I wouldn’t think so

[keen zodiac]

it's classified as "other" on the wiki

[deft yew]

Okay

[half imp]

I could make it count as one

[gaunt trout]

if your suggestion has a green tick on it that means that it is going to get added right

also how do you get the green tick in question if so

[limber drift]

Green tick just means it was sent to the developer server thing for them to have a look at since it had gotten enough stars

[gaunt trout]

how many stars required

[keen zodiac]

no

it means the devs think it's a good idea

but still far from a guarantee it'll be added

[limber drift]

Oh okay then

[gaunt trout]

ozzatron stared my suggestion that made me happy

few other devs as well i think

starred

[keen zodiac]

wait you were right

i was thinking of the 👍

[gaunt trout]

is it 60 stars

[keen zodiac]

it's not a set amount

i'm trying to find the formula

[limber drift]

Its like the top 20% of suggestions get the tick or something right

[gaunt trout]

there is a formula?

damn okay

[keen zodiac]

top 20% each week yeah

[gaunt trout]

oh okay

are you allowed to star your own post

[keen zodiac]

each sugg with enough stars from that week is sent to the devs on friday

[humble scarab]

if you make alt accounts

[keen zodiac]

then they vote on it whenever

[humble scarab]

nobody will know

[keen zodiac]

you can but it won't do much

[gaunt trout]

oh ok

[craggy girder]

woah thats a fun bug

for only a moment i saw the millions of scam disc links

[craggy girder]

the first part is quite fast after the first kill, but i do agree with making its phase transition and death anim faster

[half imp]

solution: make eater have a matching animation

[craggy girder]

this too works

[limber drift]

Just double checking would making a suggestion which is suggesting that calamity adds the missing pieces of its furniture sets be allowed or would it count as a specific item suggestion

[remote dune]

#suggestions-posting message spriter hell

[limber drift]

I doubt itd be a massive effort for the spriters to do since like almost none of the missing furniture would,at all need to be animated and most of the missing pieces are quite small in terms of size of the sprites

[drowsy plank]

"add the content that isn't in the game yet"

[drowsy plank]

it is

[limber drift]

Wait are you like saying it is like breaking the no specific item suggestion rule with this or am I confused

[drowsy plank]

it does feel a bit high effort and also like

i feel like they know these are missing

[limber drift]

I will say like why do so many sets just not have toilets like I'm actually a little confused why only 5 of calamity's furniture sets even got one

Also isn’t there a channel in the art server where the devs can ask for sprites submission from people in the server so like they could use that I guess

[drowsy plank]

yes

[keen zodiac]

[indigo yacht]

oh boy another suggestion for people to equally unhelpfully say spriter hell about

[limber drift]

Do you mean scoria when you say hydrothermic ore?

[novel belfry]

thanks

i was honestly confusing that with infernal suevite

[limber drift]

I could also see a name like idk comet ore to parallel meteorite since astral ore does get “purified” into meteorite at a chlorophyte extractinator so trying to give it something like that could work

Also related I just kind of thought about it but like it is kind of lame how like most astral infection blocks are just called astral {block name}

[novel belfry]

i mean

ys

[limber drift]

Also wait novae slags name honestly could even work as the name of astral ore since like it does sound kind of fitting, it’d just mean it needs to be given a new name

[novel belfry]

i feel like in a hypothetical astral infection overhaul, i would like for the astral infection to have more than one ore

[crude geode]

No

[crude geode]

I don’t want more ore sets

[deft yew]

the existence of an ore does not preclude the existence of a set

[limber drift]

In calamity it kind of does

Like every ore in calamity has a set of gear

[novel belfry]

not exactly...

sea prism is weird, it has weapons that you make but much of its items arent set based

the armor set you make from it is hardmode, while the sea prism itself is obtainable prehardmode

[calm knot]

the sea prism has like 3 weapons

[limber drift]

I’d argue it does have a set of sea prism + pearl shard crafts

[novel belfry]

and exodium clusters, yes, are considered ore by the wiki

[limber drift]

Exodium has the stratus set

[novel belfry]

and the set associated with that isnt the exodium set, its the stratus set

[novel belfry]

so, peculiarly enough, while it isn't a vanilla thing, lynel's statement holds true to calamity

auric bars while they create an armor set, dont actually have a proper bar weapon set

[gilded citrus]

If sea prisms are a bar are the sea prism shards the ore

[limber drift]

I could see it being cool if like the astral infection had two ores that are the blueish and orangish parts of the main astral colours but idk

[novel belfry]

they just make other weapons that arent necessarily called auric sword or something

[limber drift]

Well it does have some distinctly auric-ore themed weapons like oracle

[novel belfry]

i actually am gonna be honest

i thought that was supposed to be an exo yoyo back in the day

[limber drift]

okay thats kind of funny how did you think the golden yellow yoyo was an exo yoyo

[novel belfry]

like what i mean is, its an extremely distorted weapon

back in the day when this was added, exo weapons didnt use a miracle matter to craft them

they just were crafted with random other bullshit

when that was added, the exo weapons kinda looked like this

so i just assumed, Oracle is clearly an exo yoyo

[limber drift]

I do wonder what the plan is for like the future miracle matter weapons in a related thought

[novel belfry]

anyhow, i should state that i dont think the oracle is an exo weapon anymore

since, well it doesnt use miracle matter in its recipe

🤯

[gilded citrus]

They getting redesigned iirc

[limber drift]

Exo yoyo crafted with just the oracle + miracle matter which is just a slightly higher damge

[limber drift]

I meant like if any entirely new ones would be added

[novel belfry]

Exoracle

[limber drift]

Like since ranger currently has 3 but mage and rogue only have 2 and summoner and cringe melee only have 1 each too

[keen zodiac]

magnomaly cannon

[gilded citrus]

Unlikely since miracle matter is mostly from the terra to elemental to miracle line
Sawblade gun is replacing magnomalys canon though iirc

[limber drift]

I guess but It does feel like a bit odd to favour some classes with it over others

[gilded citrus]

A exo lance is not out of the equation since there is a elemental lance iirc

[limber drift]

Also vanishing point and flowers of mortality neither have miracle counterparts

Also supernova doesn’t have an elemental counterpart

[keen zodiac]

those are planned afaik

[gilded citrus]

Hence why i said mostly

[limber drift]

Also ark of the elements doesn’t have an miracle matter counterpart but hes a weird one so whatever

[novel belfry]

actively restraining myself from espousing my thoughts on these redesigns, knowing that the devs probably already have heard them five hundred times, and that they dont want to show these anymore because they got overwhelmed

[limber drift]

I’ll say I think the redesign there does look really cool but idk if the set really would need a redesign

[gilded citrus]

It does miracle matter is a fucking mess rn

[novel belfry]

if anything tho the sprites from last we've seen were very incomplete anyways

[keen zodiac]

❌

[limber drift]

Yeah but isn’t that part of the point

[gilded citrus]

Conveys it shitly

Its the point but also it does a shit job at it imo

Its a mess (bad) not a mess (good)

[limber drift]

I will say honestly I hope cosmic immaterializer does like get entirely redone because like it kind of feels so uninteresting for an exo minion

[gilded citrus]

Its like the only one that has not had a rework ever iirc

[limber drift]

It feels weird especially since like since its ingredients are all able to be summoned as many times as you want but it for some reason can only be summoned once

Like I feel like the flowers of mortality upgrade would make sense as a limited summon while immaterializer could be like a multiple use minion

I do kind of hope that each class does eventually get 3 miracle matter weapons seeing how they’re kind of one of the main ways we’ll be able to get yharim-viable weapons so more options would be great

Like melee could get a miracle matter spear and flail, maybe mage could get like a miracle matter magic gun, sunmoner could get a flowers of mortality upgrade and like idk maybe a whip, a sentry maybe even like a desert-tiger type minion that gets stronger the more times you summon it, and rogue could get a javelin or somethin

Also hear me out miracle matter lawnmower

I will say as a whole miracle matter’s current design vs the planned redesign do both have their differing good aspects and like while some parts of the new one do look way cooler and more kind of more coherent, I do feel like the classic colours and stuff are very iconic and containing a lot of the colours of the rainbow in the crystal-ly bits does feel quite fitting for weapons made of both a material which is kind of a slurry of various powerful materials and also several weapons from throughout your journey

Some of the specific weapons are definitely due for a redesign though I’m gonna be honest exo blade looks so weirdly shaped and kind of wimpy

[hollow shell]

The whole "Astral" item set does have truly dogshit names

The rest of the biome has all these creative and weird biological and/or stellar naming references

then you get to the bars and it's just
"Astral Pike"
"Astral Staff"
"Astral armor"

almost said Astral Blade and Astral Bow but those don't exist anymore. Good

Tis indeed a holdover from when they were the Astral items
There was no biome, Astrageldon (OG) and Deus did not have their own weapon set drops,
it was just the bars and what they craft

... which was about 9 years ago

[limber drift]

There is a lot of cool ways those could be named but like they’re so lame right now

Idk like maybe the armour could be could like spacefarer armour or something

[lucid marsh]

That is a much better name

"Astral Bars" is kinda necessary because they're a specific thing in lore, they're not just meteorite

Although you could have some kind of word for creatures and objects infected by the astral...

Enchanted or charmed or something

[limber drift]

I doubt that changing the dumb name of astral bars would like at all matter for the lore

[lucid marsh]

Like the sort of mind control kind of enchantment

The kind miquela in elden ring has it something

[limber drift]

I will say both of those words do feel like they would fit way better if they were hallow related so idk if those would really work for the astral

[lucid marsh]

I don't have a good word for it

We need a word for someone that has been magically manipulated into a particular aligence or loyalty

But it's not "hypnotized", that's lame

[elder beacon]

starstruck

[lucid marsh]

That's perfect

[elder beacon]

pretty sure it's used in one of the lores

describing how the infections feels

[lucid marsh]

I feel like a lore writer would be onboard with just changing this for astral bars and related things right now

[elder beacon]

Those whose minds can grasp the true form of the universe are largely immune.
They cannot be starstruck by a supposed higher truth, let alone one preached by a pustule.

[hollow shell]

🔥 ✍️

We do have Star Struck Water already for the biome spread thrown water item

But it is a great term to use in more places around the Astral

even "Starstruck Bars" already sounds way better, more evocative

[craggy girder]

starstricken bars?

starstruck (double entendre) + stricken (ailed)

[elder beacon]

might need to use another word for the bars, cause when you put it like this it doesn't make me think of the ingot meaning

[hollow shell]

not bad either

[elder beacon]

as in, it sounds to me like "this mfer spitting starstruck bars"

[hollow shell]

(tbf it would be singular in-game)

[craggy girder]

i mean you could also pull a meld bars -> meld constructs and just abandon the bar part for a different thing

[hollow shell]

indeed. indeed.

[elder beacon]

ye that's what i mean

[craggy girder]

starstruck ingot

[lucid marsh]

The astral infection debuff could be changed to starstricken

[lucid marsh]

Oh hell no

I can't stand the way meld works

Meld blobs and constructs should be made into just one item, which acts the same as any other pillar fragment

[lucid marsh]

Why not

[elder beacon]

the ores with non-standard names and bars are cool

[lucid marsh]

It's annoying

It's not an ore

It's a pillar fragment with an extra step

[elder beacon]

ok you got me there
but still

[gilded citrus]

Meld is just annoying with how it is rn

[lucid marsh]

Do we have any reason to believe it won't stay that way?

Wait hey I just had a cool idea to make ranger fun

Occasionally make a small target icon appear on a random part of an enemy's hitbox. If your projectiles hit the exact spot where the target is, you do extra damage

Or alternatively maybe the target sits in a spot near the enemy and shooting through it boosts damage

[limber drift]

Honestly meld is such a weird thing right now like it is a very pointless step in both gameplay and conceptually like why do they need to be like made into constructs to use

[elder beacon]

i was going to say that it needs the manipulator to make, but the fragments are also unusable without it and they don't have a refined version so

[limber drift]

Honestly also like why is it even called meld

Like what is that meant to mean for them

[elder beacon]

it's presumably a mixture of, stuff

it could really use an item description ngl

[gilded citrus]

Make the description as fucked up and weird as the other fragments

[limber drift]

‘The mixture of the melding is contained within this fragment blob’

[lucid marsh]

Make it mechanically and visually identical to a fifth fragment. It doesn't have to actually be one in lore

It can still be moon lord flesh or something

[elder beacon]

they really made one of coolest sets in the game and gave it zero context

[lucid marsh]

I wouldn't call it cool I think it looks like ass

[limber drift]

It not being a fragment actually represents how rogue isn’t a real class

[lucid marsh]

rogue never should have existed. Red removed thrower for a reason

[elder beacon]

nah, i like how the armor and wings looks
and the weapons have a cool vibe

[limber drift]

Rogue should be a ranger sub-class honestly

[lucid marsh]

It is in vanilla!

But calamity has to be built stupid

Spent all those thousands of dev hours on fabsol's special boy edgy class

[limber drift]

I’d say most of the weapons are a bit hard to understand the sprites of but like dead suns wind is really cool looking and geneis pickaxe is kind of cool looking

[gilded citrus]

Idk if we even know what meld is lol

[elder beacon]

recycled space plastic

[lucid marsh]

It's a holdover from old lore where it was xeroc flesh or something

[limber drift]

It is a bit dumb that its colour scheme is black with accents of a greenish colour when vortex’s colours are a greenish colour with accents of black

[lucid marsh]

Granted it was magenta back then

[elder beacon]

it's acceptably different imo

[limber drift]

I’d say like the green being the accent is used very sparingly so like its okay but it does feel odd to me

[elder beacon]

the vfx uses straight green, that's brighter and less saturated, and the armor and wings are 99% black

[limber drift]

Like a hypothetical meld furniture set that like follows the design of the lunar fragment sets would just be basically the vortex one again

Like they’re very similar in some ways

[lucid marsh]

It would, maybe with black and green swapped

[elder beacon]

i feel like if it had a recolor of those sets it would be 99% black

[lucid marsh]

I would suggest they remove meld for being a stupid ugly garbage material that shouldn't exist but no one would ever accept it

[limber drift]

Like its not like too bad with whats currently in game but like it is a bit of an issu when the other lunar fragments are all like so different

[elder beacon]

the items have very minimal green on them

[limber drift]

Meld is like the rogue fragment so just removing it would be dumb

[lucid marsh]

Rogue should not exist anyways but regardless
Making literally any change to how meld works would be good

[elder beacon]

what did rogue do to you

[limber drift]

They should add a rogue pillar equivalent for it to drop from

[lucid marsh]

Remove the stupid double crafting step? Good change
Make it drop from something else at the tier? Good change
Reimagine the sprite to something less disgustingly ugly? Good change

[limber drift]

Hear me out merge meld and galactica singularities trust me itd be good

[sleek turret]

Never cook again.

[gilded citrus]

Can we beat quinn with hammers

[limber drift]

Hey they are called meld and you’d be melding the other fragments together

Trust me its a fire idea

[gilded citrus]

We will meld you to the ceiling

[limber drift]

Killing two redundant crafting steps with one recipe

[sleek turret]

impressed galactica singularities still exist when they could just use the specific class fragments for items

[lucid marsh]

Took my beloved melee boomerangs, took all the cool gimmicks that could have gone to other classes, took presumably thousands of hours of dev time that could have gone to more interesting features, added fabsol's stupid edgy bandit OC, fucked my mom, pissed on the moon, ate my homework, broke my glasses, and called me a b*tch

[limber drift]

Hey bandit is cool leave them out of this

[gilded citrus]

Thought bandit was dedicated to someone thats not fabsol

[limber drift]

Also calamity does still give a ton of “boomerangs” to melee

[fossil finch]

Correction for something up there: by the time meld looked like it did now, it was not xeroc flesh, it was magic abstract astral/noxus adjacent goop

[lucid marsh]

Bandit is a boring and lame excuse for a character that hides behind being nonbinary to sound interesting

[fossil finch]

Now it's simply a fragment with identity issues

[fossil finch]

Truth hypernova

[limber drift]

Thats cos they’re like a minor town npc they don’t all have to be deep thought out characters

[lucid marsh]

They have zero connections to anything else in the game

[limber drift]

Because they’re meant to be a minor npc not everyone has to tie into the main story

[fossil finch]

I think it's fair to say that if calamity wants their town npcs to be interesting they should strive for that

[lucid marsh]

Even the other town NPCs at least have relationships, likes, dislikes, and character traits

Bandit only has like half of those things

[fossil finch]

Ben isn't asking for them to be plot relevant

[lucid marsh]

The bandit has zero character traits. They're a walking trope with no substance.

Every other NPC at least has a shred of substance

[limber drift]

Not every other one the golfer is just a guy who likes golf, the pirate is a generic pirate, the princess is just a nice little kid
None of them really have any major character traits other than a generic idea of their role

[lucid marsh]

And you know what? Rogue is fitting for what it is because everything interesting about it is something it stole from other classes or something that would fit better on other classes

[fossil finch]

And rlly like. Vanilla npcs are one note quip generators and i think calamity would benefit from caring more about bandit than that

[fossil finch]

Beautiful and correct conclusion

This stopped happening at some point but a while ago while the issue of rogue having no station was in vogue i remember people wanting to overcomplicate it with bandit

[lucid marsh]

The golfer likes his sister and loves the angler because the kid helps him get his lost balls. He hates greedy people like the merchant

That's at least something

[fossil finch]

bandit escaped dog once

[lucid marsh]

Like I said, vanilla NPCs have at least the tiniest shred of substance. Bandit has nothing

[limber drift]

So like they should try to actually give the bandit something then, like give them some substance at least

[lucid marsh]

No, they should kill the bandit and rogue

They've already wasted enough dev time on this

[limber drift]

Rogue has cemented itself too hard in the mod to remove it at this point

[fossil finch]

truth blackholebomb

[lucid marsh]

Nothing is too hard to remove

[limber drift]

No there are things that are in calamity’s case

[fossil finch]

Sadly this is true

[limber drift]

There are things that like definitely could never actually get removed from calamity

[lucid marsh]

Don't agree

[limber drift]

They could never remove the murasama, any dokuro song, and I feel rogue sinw the backlash would be way too high for the devs to handle

[fossil finch]

Well you're right (nothing is sacred) but you're wrong (it's not happening)

[lucid marsh]

Even donor weapons can be. There's no legally binding thing keeping them there. Send a refund or make it classless

They could remove the murasama and also I think they can just not care about backlash

I wonder what devs think of this whole conversation

[limber drift]

No they can’t just “not care about the backlash” thats not really something they could do

[fossil finch]

Well i know they don't agree with the notion

[fossil finch]

Ultimately

Regardless yeah make bandit a character

As for rogue

[limber drift]

Give them more character yeah
Like maybe give them some character interactions with like the arms dealer or something

[elder beacon]

it's certainly possible
just more difficult

[lucid marsh]

It frustrates me to no end that this will never be resolved positively

[elder beacon]

there are absolutely types of people who can tank backlash of that kind

but it would also certainly not have positive repercussion down the road

[limber drift]

Yeah but there are also people who definitely could not handle it

[lucid marsh]

Calamity will forever be stained and bloated by countless features that don't actually make the game better, while other features that desperately need attention will go completely untouched

Think! If rogue never existed, all the cool stuff made for it could have given melee a proper boomerang subclass AND given ranger a bunch of cool features

[elder beacon]

you can always fix (some of) these things with a mod yourself

[lucid marsh]

I mean, theoretically yes

But terraria modding is hard and not something I want to learn

[limber drift]

Okay I’m gonna be honest the concept of calamity being completely bloated with content honestly is starting to annoy me like it just at this points feels like its just being used as a buzzword and to justify killing content that isn’t completely optimal

[lucid marsh]

Ok. Cry about it

[elder beacon]

i still miss the resources removed in brainstorm

i like hoarding crap, organizing chests and manually taking items to craft stuff

[limber drift]

I will say that like stuff can be less impressive and like less useful than other stuff and still be good to have

Rogue while it has flaws and like I do like to make jokes about it being fake, is still a part of the mod and as such the mod is based around it existing

[sleek turret]

cough Calamity: Fables cough

[lucid marsh]

Huh. I hate that

No unnecessary resources for me!

[limber drift]

Different people like different things

[lucid marsh]

True

[elder beacon]

also, to argue the inverse
if rogue was removed, then an entire class with gear at every step of the game, and interesting and unique accessories and buildcrafting would be gone
and what would be gained? like a dozen new accessories or stuff spread across the other classes

you can't convert a majority of rogue items into other classes

[limber drift]

The no-longer rogue weapons would also all (but like 2 that are the melee rogue weapons) would definitely go to ranger which like yay more ranger content its not like its already filled with a ton of weapons already

Calamity is built off of rogue existing and as such so many stuff is made specifically for it to work

[sleek turret]

it's just a leftover of a time mods had to do thrower content somewhat

[limber drift]

its a leftover but like its been here for so long that its become foundational to the mod as is

I will also related thought why the hell are boomerangs melee in the first place like what

like why would they be melee and not ranged even though ranged makes like so much more sense

[sleek turret]

because vanilla boomerangs are more effective the closer you are to enemies, at least the pre-hm ones

[limber drift]

Yeah and like so is the harpoon but it aint melee

Also bows due to gravity also work better when closer to a target

[elder beacon]

it's about the vibes
most ranger weapons are the type of thing that consumes some form of ammunition

[limber drift]

I guess but it is still very weird

[elder beacon]

harpoon is effectively a gun with a single reusable bullet

[limber drift]

What about toxikarp huh how is that ranged

[limber drift]

Also isnt that kind of a boomerang with extra steps if you think about it

[elder beacon]

although this logic doesn't hold cause isn't there a boxing glove cannon that's melee

[limber drift]

Punch = melee duh

[elder beacon]

if you think of your arms as the gun

[limber drift]

Same reason why ale tosser is melee cos it looks like a glove therefor its a punch therefore melee

[limber drift]

Well they are called fire arms so duh thats why

[elder beacon]

we don't talk about ale tosser

[elder beacon]

yo hold on you're cooking

[limber drift]

Ale tosser is melee cos melee player are all alcoholics