suggestions-discussion

[indigo yacht]

or actually that could just be worms in general?

[royal tapir]

Destroyer has a 25% resist to Golden Shower and Eater of Worlds has an 80% resist to grenades

[lucid marsh]

Ok fair I guess

[drowsy plank]

there's also cultist's resistance to homing and summoner

which is also vanilla

[umbral gazelle]

does destroying draedon recon body in subsequent battle still make him continue his dialogue

i would like to suggest destroying his recon body in subsequent battle end the dialogue early but idk what reason should there be

[half imp]

bosses are enemies

it's +3 when added to stinger necklace

[lucid marsh]

Ok. Vanilla uses few specific weapon resistances

And I think if you're going to have resistances, then applying them to whole categories of weapons that function similarly is more fair

[polar bison]

The issue is that neuters some weapons that don't need nerfs and does little to change the real fringe cases

[lucid marsh]

Then maybe fix the fringe cases in other ways?

Like. This is part of weapon balancing

You've given yourself an excessive number of variables to adjust

If you're going to do specific damage resistances, why even bother balancing? You can just make every weapon do the same amount of damage and adjust other things around that via resistances

This is absurd of course, I'm trying to illustrate a point

[fossil finch]

Worm

[lucid marsh]

Actually, here's a slightly less absurd thing: make every boss know how much damage it should be taking per second from an on tier weapon, and dynamically adjust the weapon's damage to automatically balance everything

This is not something I would actually ever want implemented

But it sure would be balanced!

[fossil finch]

Can you guys just makr segments share iframes it's 2026 we have the technology there's no point to worm song and dance anymore. It's a solved game but you're still playing against a bot thinking you can win by sheer luck

[lucid marsh]

Actually, so true

Make a real suggestion for this

[fossil finch]

Magical barrier prevents me I'm truly sorry

[drowsy plank]

we already had this this is reactive damage reduction

it fucking sucked

[lucid marsh]

Yeah

I mean you would have to let it give negative damage reduction as well

But anyways

Actually good suggestion: make worm segments share I frames

[keen zodiac]

true!

[lucid marsh]

As was mentioned above

[fossil finch]

Truly!

[dense locust]

worms do not deserve such mercy

[lucid marsh]

This isn't for the worms sake, it's for the balancers

Give the worms -200% damage resistance from piercing weapons

[half imp]

shared iframes on worms suck

what if we made this enemy that was explictly designed to be a boss that rewards picking crowd control over single target not do that

[dense locust]

hey it doesnt stop aureus shredders

[half imp]

the best solution i've seen to it is actually DoG, where segment damage is not negligible for AoE to matter, but head dmg is much higher so single target works

worms sharing iframes makes critically thinking about what weapon to use on what boss much less prevelant and so I don't support it

i do support making worms that have groups of segments share iframes, though

[drowsy plank]

do you think more critically about weapon selection because of that...? i just pick something with piercing or explosions bc of worms lmao

[glass arch]

well yeah that is thinking more critically

considering the alternative is just whatever hits the hardest single target

[drowsy plank]

fair i guess

it's not thinking very hard so i never really considered it all that relevant

[glass arch]

oh no it isnt very hard but it is harder

[craggy girder]

what if whenever a segment takes damage all other segments temporarily boost in dr

[glass arch]

congrats you just gave every worm permanent higher dr

[half imp]

i think the best approach is limiting the amount of hitboxes (not every segment needs a hitbox for some worm designs) and/or sharing iframes in groups

i.e. every 5th segment shares iframes

so you can hit up to 5 segments at a time

or!

just balance the weapons properly

[dense locust]

unheard of

giving deus a damage vulnerability to vulcanite as we speak

[half imp]

like there's genuinely no weapon that can't just be balanced to not destroy worms

without resists usually too

[dense locust]

rusty beacon prototype

[half imp]

remove the debuff

done

[dense locust]

I mean I guess that works

[half imp]

limit the debuff to only 3 targets hit per pulse get it applied

done

limit the pulse pierce in general

plenty of options

debuff duration falls off for each target hit like piercing damage falloff

[craggy girder]

yeah 15% dr on a worm sounds fair

[lucid marsh]

Make "temporarily" be the length of that one segment's I frames

[novel belfry]

apparently desert scourge in fables has a very funny iframe mechanic where every segment shares the exact same iframe or something

[lucid marsh]

Also, there's a reason the destroyer is immune to all debuffs

[glass arch]

yeah that. still doesnt work very well because other segments get damaged at the same time

[lucid marsh]

That's on purpose

Do it within the same frame

Regardless of how you do it, balancing worms by changing how they take damage is fundamentally easier than constantly adjusting every single weapon on them

[north oracle]

@tame vigil this seems familiar

[tame vigil]

i've been lurking in this conversation, rdr has been suggested at least three times

[north oracle]

we should just bring it back but named something different

[tame vigil]

before you ask, no none of them were me

[errant wren]

we keep reinventing it

[north oracle]

no need for any of these creative ways to have it exist

RDR did solve the balancing issues

[lucid marsh]

Which is why I said, I wouldn't actually want it implemented, but it would work

In practice I think it's best to just get a much better understanding of and control over exactly what makes each weapon good or not, and change the I frame and damage resistance system so that balancing weapons is easier

Like I said, maybe make worm enemies have a special system for how they take damage that makes the ability to hit multiple segments useful, but not directly beneficial in the way it is now

[novel belfry]

am i hallucinating

[half imp]

yes it would work

except it wouldn't really

it would stop bosses being melted, but it wouldn't stop weapons being viable way beyond their tier

[north oracle]

it would make everything perfectly balanced forever

that's not really the goal tho

to never have the boss die faster than a specific time

[half imp]

also, "balance" is not a goal, it's a tool

balance is a tool to aid in creating a more enjoyable gameplay experience

it's not the goal of gameplay itself

[lucid marsh]

Well no, not if you tell the game which weapons are which tier, and give different DR for each tier

[novel belfry]

doze i havent touched fables

[lucid marsh]

But anyways it's bad for other reasons yes

[half imp]

same

[novel belfry]

is it true that fables desert scourge has an... unusual take on iframes that basically solves the whole thing in one stroke

because i swear i heard this somewhere

[half imp]

doesn't fables just share iframes the whole worm over

[novel belfry]

apparently it just has its iframes apply to the whole body, meaning that hitting one segment iframes the whoel body

[half imp]

that's what i'd heard

[half imp]

yeah, and that's exactly what i just explained why I do not think is a good solution

[novel belfry]

yeah if thats the case then i dunno why we're still arguing over worm iframes

[lucid marsh]

My goal with this suggestion is not to make everything perfectly balanced, it's to make constant balance issues not a massive problem that requires constant adjustments

[half imp]

^

[half imp]

the thing is that it really doesn't solve it at all

[lucid marsh]

You can do things besides fully shared I frames

[half imp]

even if it makes things balanced on bosses, bosses aren't even the majority of the gameplay

[novel belfry]

i think its a case by case situation

[lucid marsh]

You can make each instance of damage within the same tick get progressively weaker

Bosses are kinda the majority of the gameplay tbh

[half imp]

that wouldn't fix a lot of the worm melters tbh

[lucid marsh]

It would if you did it right

[half imp]

but it would kill explosive type weapons i guess

[half imp]

no, a lot of the melters melt not from hitting all segments on one frame

[lucid marsh]

Sorry, not the same tick. The same I frame period

[half imp]

oh

okay

[novel belfry]

in some worms i think they could stand to benefit

[lucid marsh]

Make them all share I frames, but at the same time also kinda not have I frames at all

[half imp]

that might work but also solving this by a system like that is just band-aid on a bullet hole

it doesn't solve weapons on anything besides bosses

[lucid marsh]

In that instead of nullifying damage, it decreases damage

So like

Actually here's the best way to do it

[half imp]

the solution is genuinely just "balance and design items better"

[novel belfry]

like for instance, that lizard desert scourge rework design feels like the kind that would benefit from doing shared iframes

[half imp]

what it'll benefit from is using less hitboxes across the body instead of one for every segment

[novel belfry]

its from what i can tell, possibly the least wormy a worm boss has ever gotten in calamity

[lucid marsh]

Whenever a worm takes damage, the segment that took damage gets proper iframes, but all other segments get damage reduction for the duration of those iframes that applies only to that damage source that caused the first hit

[half imp]

that still doesn't solve everything

there is no "fix all the problems" option

[lucid marsh]

Also yes you still have to balance things, but you don't have to balance every multi hit weapon separately for worms

[novel belfry]

yknow thats kinda how FFXIV does it whenever you get around to performing big single-target attacks that also serve as AoEs. they just do significantly less damage to everything else

[half imp]

you don't anyway if you do it right

if you use damage falloff properly it just won't need it

[lucid marsh]

I guess

[novel belfry]

and to be fair, the worm aoe thing isnt that much of an issue in my eyes

as long as it doesnt cheese the fight so much

[half imp]

systems like these are just band-aids over the real problem of problematic weapon design/stats

[glass arch]

the ideal is that aoe items arent forced to try to compete with single target items in single target scenarios

[half imp]

and continuing to add more band-aids just makes it worse

[half imp]

yup

aoe-focus should be worse single target than single-target focus

[errant wren]

the solution is to rework some bosses into invasion events

[half imp]

-# that also solves nothing because the issue is calamity CC weapons in general being WAY too good at CC

like, solving this from a boss side doesn't solve it from breaking the rest of the game that's not bosses

looking at how to solve it from a boss side is looking at the problem from the wrong angle

[glass arch]

realistically the issue isnt that aoe items have to be rebalanced for worms the issue is that they have to be balanced for single target

[half imp]

that's not explicitly true tbh

i have never once see any dev tell another to balance aoe for single target explicitly

[glass arch]

no but it still happens

[half imp]

true

[indigo yacht]

nah. they're not.

[half imp]

go time how long you spend fighting bosses vs the rest of the game

i can guarantee bosses are not going to be more than half the time

[indigo yacht]

you spend like what maybe a total of an hour, two hours fighting bosses throughout the game and then how many dozens not doing that

[half imp]

Bosses are major moments, but major moments are, by definition, not the majority of a thing or they wouldn't be major

Issue comes from a lot of things, but the biggest imo are:

• Calamity not putting proper checks on their weapon's AoE power.
  • This is made much worse by the built-in pierce resist system, as it encourages devs to not actually balance their AoE properly from a mechanical level
• Calamity balancing these heavily AoE weapons only around bosses. This is ESPECIALLY bad when a tier has few or no AoE bosses

like, on a tier where there's aoe bosses and single target bosses, aoe weapons tend to be better for aoe and single target tends to be better for single target

it's the tiers where there's not much aoe that things get bad

ultimately: there are a lot of solutions to individual parts of the problem, but the only good solution is to tackle the root of the issue and not the symptoms

tackling the symptoms makes it easier to ignore the root, which just causes the root to get more ingrained into the mod and even harder to address

The tiers where boss-specific tools to even out AoE and single target should be those that have no other content for either one to specialize in

like Yharon is a great example of a bad tier for this - only single target there unless we start balancing them around the moons

[glass arch]

doze i have a question

[half imp]

sure

[glass arch]

is thanatos's 65% true melee resist because of solely drage

[half imp]

no, murasama is also insane on thanatos

[glass arch]

oh huh

[half imp]

notice how drage has its own unique than resist too

Thanatos is actually a boss where this is specifically problematic

Because the issue with thanatos is weapons being balanced Solo for exo mechs

[glass arch]

god i missed that because its thrown in with the aotc gaels and zenith resists

[half imp]

Thanatos is the most egregious anti single target boss in the game easily

So to make single target usable Thanatos just needs to take a billion damage when you actually hit the segments

if exos were designed explicitly for weapon swapping this would be fixable

Because the thing is.. exos also has single target for twins, which means aoe weapons also struggle solo

so exos and especially Thanatos is actually just horrific for this unless we actively expect weapon swapping

[craggy girder]

funny idea: why not have thanatos shield its segments after they're hit

[fossil finch]

not true!!!! not true!!!!! just complete fiction i am sorry

hitbox size and lenght still makes piercing weapons more useful because they will still hit multiple times in a single shot

fables scourge does this. it works. it just works i am #sorry it just does

[potent perch]

Suggestion

Give every single boss

A giant laser thst covers the screen

and a billion vfx stacked on top

And a bunch of bloom on the screen whoever a boss spawns

and idk

Give the eye of Cthulhu a gun

[fossil finch]

also its such a funny argument like calamity doesnt already for the most part push back against the way piercing weapons annihilate worms to bridge the gap between them and single targets

[vocal wedge]

I support this and only this point.

[grim tusk]

Ender is correct: See: Astrum Aureus, Providence and Leviathan

[grim tusk]

Indeed, piercing weapons get often nerfed or resisted by bosses to hit the intended killtime which causes them to underperform vs single target OR be completely busted vs bosses in later tiers

Worst offending tier is post-Golem

[golden sonnet]

The iframe thing is still just avoiding the root cause and causing its own problems

[grim tusk]

please keep RDR for normal stuff outside of the picture please, dont want bosses to be insufferable

[grim tusk]

indeed

Probably a better solution than Cal’s atm with the pierce resist system which can cause weapons to deal way less dmg than one would expect

[golden sonnet]

Imo the biggest issue is that we don't allow things to have a niche. Single target weapons don't need to be good in aoe, aoe weapons don't need to be good in single target. Part of this I feel like may be on the tier list/rankings where devs may see a weapon is like C tier because it's bad on like 3/4 on tier bosses, but if it destroys the 1/4 I feel that ranking isn't really fair

[grim tusk]

Yep

Theres a shitton of weapons that obliterate Ravager but suck vs the rest of post-Golem

even pre-Golem stuff can nuke Rav

[golden sonnet]

Doze already kinda said the weapons can have a niche thing, but I agree with it. Inferno fork should not be expected to perform in single target for example

[grim tusk]

theres also the example of Stellar Knives being so good single target pre-Golem which makes it viable post-Golem because its damage is inflated to consider the fat fuck that is Leviathan and the multiple parts Golem. If a weapon is intended to be single target it should not be expected to perform well vs big and multisegmented bosses

[royal tapir]

That was not the fault of single-target vs. multi-target, that was the fault of Levana and Aureus having heavily inflated health and defense/DR compared to bosses which came after them

[half imp]

depends on how the piercing works - stuff like unholy arrows, for example, won't

[half imp]

it does work but it's not just objectively better

It's a trade-off

One place shared iframes would work fantastic is storm weaver though

Specifically phase 1

[grim tusk]

And this inflated health was due to piercing weapons obliterating them otherwise, was it not?

[kind laurel]

Damaging worms gives i-frames to adjacent segments

Maybe?

Just throwing it out there, no clue how it would work

But yeah I'm on team "balance items better" but I feel like it's unrealistic to expect that

[dusty stirrup]

Potential Balancing...

[boreal lichen]

[half imp]

it's not really, it's just something that'll take time

most cruicially, it means making sure new items are properly balanced

[dusty stirrup]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1106646961030959254/1276013590771666995/verm.gif

[deft yew]

Stares at you really hard

[half imp]

hey I've made sure my stuff is properly aoe balanced for the stuff I've done recently

By recently I mean for 2.2

2.1 had a few aoe monsters in it (everything dog drops)

[craggy girder]

is there any major AoE that people care abt post dog??

oh rgiht thanatos and hearts

right righ

[worthy lintel]

and ares, if you wanna be technical

hitting several weapons at once is always nice

[craggy girder]

i suppose but i thought the weapons had like 20% DR and the head had like none

[fossil finch]

make

make ares share iframes

i mean

its not

its not the point that you can fuck it up with piercing weapons

i think at least

[keen zodiac]

i don't think we should balance aoe weapons by making everything single target

[fossil finch]

itd be funny though

[craggy girder]

see this is just getting back to my previous idea

^

[drowsy plank]

@limber drift why can't there be two

[limber drift]

We do not need two sand elemental accessories dropped by the same enemy its incredibly redundant

Also like for some reason one being a “rare” one while the other isn’t is just a very odd choice

[drowsy plank]

i mean is it any different then enchanted sword shrines dropping esword and terragrim

[lucid marsh]

It's different because they're not interchangeable in the upgrade

[limber drift]

Yeah but like the enchanted sword and terragrim are very different visually, with the sand elementals its litera the same thing but like one has like boobs

[drowsy plank]

they're quite different functionally and it's not like you can use terragrim for esword crafts

[limber drift]

Its especially weird since like as is in the heart of the elementals for some reason theres two parts of the earth elemental, but there isn’t even one thing tied to silva the nature elemental

[drowsy plank]

that sounds more like an issue with heart than the sand elementals existing, not to mention silva not being in it is because of lore carryovers

[limber drift]

I know but the existance of two sand elementals is just very confusing since like why does there need to be two but there arent like two cloud elemental accessories

[drowsy plank]

because there were two sand elementals before, you could retheme one but removal feels ridiculous

the accessory itself is fine

[limber drift]

Retheming one of them would also work but like them both being sand elementals as is is my main issue

[drowsy plank]

id just ask for that instead of trying to remove part of heart

going back to your earlier point, if silva really is the nature elemental now, why not just make the healing one nature themed instead

it doesn't literally need to be silva but you get the idea

[limber drift]

I guess I could change it cos that could be better

Now that I think about it what even is the heart of the elementals in the mod’s lore like is it literally their heart or something

Also don’t the elementals hate eachother

[drowsy plank]

it's an accessory

:)

[limber drift]

Also now that I think about it silva also is the only elemental who isn’t very murdery, so having part of the nature elemental that she is being the one that heals instead of hurts would make a lot of sense

[vocal wedge]

Beyond being territorial, unknown.

[limber drift]

Wait but (outside of silva) don’t they like hate like the player and other like people so like why do they even help you

[vocal wedge]

Because, uh, magic?

[limber drift]

They try to kill you but when you beat them sometimes they help you for some reason?

[vocal wedge]

I'd make up an argument about how you're actually just using magic to reign in a fragment of the Elemental but that explanation probably wouldn't work with Silva if she were included.

[limber drift]

Also It is weird how anahita and silva both have names but like the others seem like they don’t as far as we’re aware

[vocal wedge]

Brimstone Elemental probably had a name given to it by Azafurians but the boss was named way before that lore came about.
Anahita is worshipped, so is Silva.
The other two Elementals are far too spread apart to try to give names to, and as far as we know have no following.

[drowsy plank]

brimstone elemental rename with the rework will be real in 2086

[vocal wedge]

Real, putting that in the lore document.

[limber drift]

Honestly if she was renamed to “[NAME GOES HERE], the Brimstone Elemental” it wouldn’t really cause much confusion

[drowsy plank]

maybe we will get a cloud elemental name when the sky gets some attention

[vocal wedge]

Yeah but then you'd have to rename Anahita to "Anahita, the Water Elemental" and boss renaming clearly takes a monumental effort.

[drowsy plank]

idk

lmao

[limber drift]

Well but like with anahita naming her with her title would cause the boss fight to have to be called “Leviathan and Anahita, the Water Elemental” which would be very long and could cause issues

[vocal wedge]

Anahita, the Water Elemental and the Leviathan.

[limber drift]

It is weird how on like the wiki and stuff the leviathan’s name is listed first despite in the lore being less important overall

Also leviathan being the treasure bag’s design

[spare bison]

Suggestion implemented

Rare sight

[limber drift]

Whats the suggestion got implemented that your talking about

[drowsy plank]

^

[lavish yoke]

meow meow meow

[indigo yacht]

yeah true

[limber drift]

That just made me think about how its kind of weird that the meowthrower is randomly a w.o.f. Drop instead of moon Lord like the meowmere and meowmere minecart

[drowsy plank]

the idea is to parallel moon lord's drops because they're both fairly random

[humble arch]

Is the instigating void bugged for you guys too?

[limber drift]

I guess but like most of moon lord’s vanilla drops do tie into space, including kind of how nyan cat was in space snd the meowmere is obviously based on it

[drowsy plank]

things like breaker blade and clockwork assault rifle have very little to do with the wall of flesh similarly to moon lord dropping things like meowmere and SDFMG

[humble arch]

Mine reaches 10% of its life and becomes immortal; it doesn't die, but it keeps moving, doesn't attack, does nothing.

[drowsy plank]

what does last prism have to do with space

[drowsy plank]

what even is "instigating void" go to #help-advice-read-pins or #calamity-addon-talk

[humble arch]

its addon?

[drowsy plank]

ive never heard of "instigating void" so im guessing but maybe something got renamed, regardless go to #help-advice-read-pins

[limber drift]

I said most of them being space related, like lunar flare, star wrath, possession which is moon-lord themed, lunar portal staff and meowmere being nyan cat related

[drowsy plank]

again, what does last prism have to do with space

[limber drift]

That would morso just be the lunar portal staff that is referencing that

[drowsy plank]

im gonna be honest the strongest connection nyan cat has to space is the stars in the background of the original animation which is kind of a stretch to say it's space themed ngl

[kind laurel]

ML is 50% Rainbows and 50% Space
Er, 44.5% Rainbows, 44.5% Space, and 12% Terra

Why? idk

[humble arch]

Ceaseless Void

[drowsy plank]

go to #help-advice-read-pins

[limber drift]

I’d still say though that since moon lord has two nyan cat related drops it would make a lot more sense to be dropped by him, especially since the idea of this cat-themed flamethrower being weaker than the basic vanilla flamethrower is an odd choice

[drowsy plank]

it's because calamity extends flamethrower progression over the whole game

and there are already plenty of flamethrowers near moon lord

[kind laurel]

funnily enough base Flamethrower might actually fit with WoF's weird "modern" vibes but Cal isn't going to move it and Meowthrower wouldn't make sense as a SoF craft

[limber drift]

I know its just weird due to how calamity expands flamethrowers which should mean theres a reason why pre-vanilla flamethrowers in progression are in universe worse

[drowsy plank]

why

is there an in universe reason why bees knees is stronger than tendon bow or something

[limber drift]

Its just strange that the basic flamethrower is stronger than the likely magical meowthrower

[drowsy plank]

idk the cats are softer so the flame hurt less there that's your lore reason

the reason is because we needed a thematically appropriate wof flamethrower and paralleling moon lord's drop table seemed like a fun gimmick

[kind laurel]

I mean the flamethrower is stuffed with the souls so I guess that's something?

[lavish yoke]

Wof is the most evil creature ever

[kind laurel]

Are you just burning souls and spewing it at your enemies that sounds painful to the souls

[lavish yoke]

it killed 1000 kittens and used them as fuel for their cat flamethrower

[drowsy plank]

yeah actually there's a better question why the fuck is a flamethrower made with human souls

[tepid crown]

theyre good fuel : )

[drowsy plank]

that's sooooooo fucked you cant be saying that that's so fucked up dont say that

[vocal wedge]

Because it's scary?

They should add a not scary flamethrower that doesn't use souls.

[drowsy plank]

😱

that's meowthrower

that's why it deals less damage

it's peak

perfect lore

[lavish yoke]

it uses kitten souls

wall of EVIL

[drowsy plank]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cedar totem]

does wrath of machines work with wrath of gods?

[keen zodiac]

yes, they do completely different things

also extremely wrong channel

[lavish yoke]

this is the right channel

people here are nerds

[cedar totem]

alright ty

will ask in proper one next time

[deft yew]

Aren’t we supposed to hate Heart of the Elements with our very sinews? Get back in line

Smh

[drowsy plank]

i do hate what heart is but i believe it can be good

it's just going to take a pretty hefty rework

[deft yew]

Anyway, I gotta throw in the obligatory

@limber drift There are two sand elementals because their spriter and Fabsol could not agree on how big to make their boobs.

[limber drift]

I know this and the fact there are still the both of them baffles me

[deft yew]

Mmm you did say “still”

I’m pretty tired rn

[limber drift]

I changed my message cos I realised it didn’t make sense just then

But like heart of the elementals could definitely be cool but as is its just 5 women that follow you

[deft yew]

You said Silva is the nature ele?

[limber drift]

Isn’t she?

[keen zodiac]

yes

[half imp]

Technically life but

Close enough

[limber drift]

wasn’t the dragon she absorbed the sould of the dragon of life, and she herself is the nature elemental

[half imp]

no

well

maybe?

She's goddess of life but actually her elemental may have been nature and not life

I have no idea now that I think about that

[keen zodiac]

no she's explicitly the nature elemental

[fossil finch]

Silva, nature elemental, first dryad, and goddess of life

[dusty stirrup]

Her greed knows no bounds

[novel belfry]

her love knows no bounds

[polar bison]

Holy scope

[humble scarab]

i dont think classes itself have anything to do with how hard the boss is

[dull patio]

yeah you're kinda right i admit

[polar bison]

@dull patio Specific item suggestions are typically a no go, so unfortunately the idea isn't really within the scope of what the mod wants to do. As an actual criticsm of the idea and not of where it is, while the idea in a vacuum is really cool it doesn't really fit the gaps in armor progression that it would be found in. When it comes to "tech parts" I assume you're referring to Mysterious Circuitry and Dubious Plating. This would place it on the same tier as its downgrades, making the prior armor obsolete. It would also really promote build homogeny, with pretty much every player resorting to using the exact same armor set post ml, which isn't ideal and draws away from build variety.

Charge that needs to refill outside of combat also isn't really a fun mechanic.

Nobody likes to wait.

Especially when terraria has the F1-3 loadout buttons now which would let you do what the armor does, just a bit more manually

[grave zinc]

@limber drift - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

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[humble scarab]

ye, thats why the weapons you make from schematics wont need to be recharged

[grave zinc]

@limber drift - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Prevent Minecart tracks from going through the bottom of the Vernal Pass]

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[polar bison]

Oh cool bot is awake

[grave zinc]

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[polar bison]

Noooo my prior discussions it's drowning

[north oracle]

bing bing bing

[dull patio]

It's only if you switch classes, if you use one class, it doesn't drain energy ( why i am even trying to defend lol)

[polar bison]

Eh, just feels like vanilla Loadout slots with more steps

I'm sure there'd be a cool way to refurbish the idea but as is it just feels a bit obsolete

[dull patio]

yeah- probably

[polar bison]

Also no specific item suggestions 🪨

[dull patio]

well, rip

not like i had any hopes anyway lol

[humble scarab]

if calamity lacks multiclass options then you could suggest but

you cant suggest exacly what they could do

[north oracle]

yea, it's still just far too specific even if it was targetting a specific issue within the mod

[polar bison]

^ yeah there are ways to rephrase the issue without going into a particular item

[dull patio]

so i should more like, suggesting dynamic multiclassing?

[lucid marsh]

I don't see how multi classing is actually strong

Like. Why would you want to do this

There are lots of options within one class and the game is designed under the assumption that you'll just be using one

[polar bison]

Cuz it’s fun. Like if it were better numbers wise it would be really fun.

[lucid marsh]

There's not much benefit to switching, if any

In that case, sure

[dull patio]

'cause why not

[north oracle]

you could technically suggest to add more items in the vein of gem tech that encourage actively swpping classes midfight ig
i don't think it's a gameplay loop or mechanic we really want to be encouraging people to actively build around byea

[lucid marsh]

You can suggest they add something to make multi classing more viable within the same layout

[dull patio]

Well, you could switch to ranged on low hp in very bad scenarios

[lucid marsh]

The thing about terraria is that melee isn't actually melee

[dull patio]

He's stating facts

[lucid marsh]

It has the same range and better defense

It's maybe harder to aim because projectile speed is typically lower

[dull patio]

i have no arguments

[polar bison]

Typically the goal of the suggestions channel isn’t to pinpoint one specific cool item but to recognize a folly in the mod, be it a minor things like item tooltips and names or something more significant like boss patterns or gaps in progression (eg. Pickaxe falloff post Providence). Balancing and bugs have their own forums but all in all suggestions that cover gaps in progression want to be more broad in what the issue is.

Here’s a folly, for example

[dull patio]

Oh okay

[dull patio]

tf is that

[humble scarab]

birb

[polar bison]

Wdym tf is that

[north oracle]

the mod has loads of items and we have a ton of people that are great at making more, so suggestions being used for that is really not what we're after

[polar bison]

A boss from the Calamity mod

[north oracle]

BUMBLEFUCK

[polar bison]

The server you’re in

Bumblefuck the glorious king

[dull patio]

yeah true, the devs are good

[polar bison]

Anyone can be an ideas guy

[keen zodiac]

i actually need an ideas guy for my minecraft mod

i used up all my ideas already

[dull patio]

Imma remove my suggestions then , since it's well too specefic and item

[dull patio]

Wrong place buddy

[keen zodiac]

nuh uh

terraria is 2d minecraft

[lucid marsh]

We tell jokes here

The rules are a little lenient

[dull patio]

Short answer : no, long answer : no , past answer : no

[humble scarab]

the long answer is as long as short answer

[dull patio]

Exactly Sherlock

[humble scarab]

im

[dull patio]

cables?

[polar bison]

Hmu

I can pump out ideas

And concept art!

[keen zodiac]

noted

[polar bison]

What’s the mod entail?

[keen zodiac]

Yes

[polar bison]

Fair enough

[keen zodiac]

(basically unfuck the game and add cool stuff)

[humble scarab]

giant trees from terraria would be cool

[keen zodiac]

how did i literally never think of giant trees

see this is what i'm talking about

[polar bison]

Underground swamps

Peat bogs underground

[keen zodiac]

does underground jungle biome count

it'll be pretty wet

[polar bison]

No no it has to be musty

New blocks Xzier new blocks

Peat Moss and Peat

Bog Mummies

Add terraria enemy banners

[keen zodiac]

i was gonna add a swamp zombie

bog mummy could be a cool angle

[indigo yacht]

@civic ruin suggestions need to have reasoning as to why changes should be implemented

[civic ruin]

i did provide reasoning

old ones army is the only thing not reworked by calamity

[indigo yacht]

that's not reasoning

why should it be reworked

[civic ruin]

because its the only thing that still doesnt fit calamity mod

[indigo yacht]

how does moving the tiers around and adding more solve that problem

[civic ruin]

because it would make it viable late game

[indigo yacht]

there are other things that terminate well before the end of the game

why does old one's army need to be different

[civic ruin]

because in vanilla a player can make it from brain of cthuhlu to moonlord using only ooa gear

its like removing all swords post moonlord

[indigo yacht]

i don't see the comparison

were i you i would pivot to focusing on the sentry gear aspect

[civic ruin]

yes but why remove a major source of sentries

[indigo yacht]

because I'm not sure there's another way to justify adding more ooa content beyond improving sentry support

[indigo yacht]

it's not removal if it never existed in the first place

[indigo yacht]

still might count as extreme effort but at least it'll have reasoning

[tepid crown]

no its not

[oblique birch]

"calamity" and "overhaul" being put next to each others alter the chud chemicals inside my brain

[half imp]

Yeah this counts as extreme effort

Reworking OOA is a lot of work

[plush flame]

its fucking hardcoded

the waves are hardcoded

[indigo yacht]

have you considered: rewriting the entire event and replacing the original so it can easily be altered

[dusty stirrup]

How is that supposed to be worth it

[plush flame]

"why not just make another terraria in a better engine"

[vocal wedge]

Counterpoint: people would have to fight the Old One's Army.

[dusty stirrup]

also insane jank as soon as someone plays with another mod that changes stuff in OOA like fargo

[indigo yacht]

ok but that one is lowkey reasonable

or barring reasonable not a bad idea

[vocal wedge]

Have I got amazing news.

[indigo yacht]

have you?

[vocal wedge]

Yes.

[plush flame]

with how fucked up ooa is i dont think having two reworks of it would remain with it being playable even with one being overridden

[drowsy plank]

ok i think a lot of people have kind of beat this dead horse already but @civic ruin this has no reasoning, is way too large in scope, doesn't actually explain what issue it is fixing, and is also just outright wrong

[half imp]

not sure how outright wrong falls into it

[tepid crown]

can additional tiers to events be put in frequently suggested or added as an example in high effort

[half imp]

but post dog frost legion when...

[lavish yoke]

Post dog goblin army

[tepid crown]

"calamity overhauls almost everything" a lot of things in calamity arent changed actually

very notably are

[half imp]

ah

[tepid crown]

other events

[vocal wedge]

Also would require putting a lot of effort into overhauling a very much side event in Terraria, which Calamity isn't famed for.
(Looking at Pumpkin Moon and Frost Moon.)

[golden sonnet]

We gotta rework frost legion

Oh doze already said it

[tepid crown]

snail

[lavish yoke]

doze actually created the concept of christmas

[dire warren]

doze is santa claus in disguise for all the goods they've bestowed upon us wretches

[sleek turret]

They're adding one new snowman that throws snowballs at you that inflict Frostburn for 5/10/15 seconds

[fleet grotto]

doesn't one of the snowmen already through snowballs

[vocal wedge]

If any events should progress through the game, it should be the ones that are a bit more integral to progression and hard to miss.

[half imp]

OOA makes sense

it already does progress

the weirdest part here is... why on earth would we change the vanilla event tiers

[plush flame]

also

post wof squire

post plant valhalla

how the hell would you powercreep these too

valhalla knight is genuinely already one of the better sets for prov

[indigo yacht]

yeah the retier makes no sense

"add more ooa tiers" lots of work but honestly reasonable
"move the existing ones" ????????

[karmic bridge]

I feel like events post-ml in general need more changes

right now its just tier 3 acid rain and stat bloat post dog to the vanilla ones

[worthy lintel]

ooa tier 4

[dense locust]

ooa tier -1

[craggy girder]

i think events should die and be replaced with boss fights

[dense locust]

ok boss rusher

[craggy girder]

i hate boss rush but i love boss design. curious

[vocal wedge]

They should remove bosses and replace them with events.

[half imp]

Genuinely this would make more sense than existing post dog events

Well actually no, eclipse makes sense too

bc that one scales in vanilla

They should remove bosses and events and replace them all with super monkey ball

[indigo yacht]

"they should"
look inside
cal dev

[half imp]

they should

Not me

[indigo yacht]

👀

[half imp]

Anyone else

[tepid crown]

hes talking about relogic obviously

relogic should replace terraria with super monkey ball

[half imp]

true

[indigo yacht]

truth convention violation

[vocal wedge]

This is true.

[dense frost]

Look Inside? More like... uhhh... Look Outside

[kind laurel]

Before I post I need to double check
There aren't any sentry-related armor/accessories in Cal right

[indigo yacht]

there aren't besides technically stardust

[kind laurel]

Stardust is vanilla though so not counting it

[worthy lintel]

none at all im afraid

or joyous, depending of mindset

some are happy sentries are unsupported due to balancing headache

[indigo yacht]

calamity adds post moonlord content that doesnt exist in vanilla

so it is effectively a cal addition

[kind laurel]

fair I suppose

[indigo yacht]

esa will give 2 sentry slots in 2.2

[dense locust]

summoner rebalance hell

[kind laurel]

actually?

my suggestions are always "planned eventually" or "really bad but gave someone else a good idea"

[worthy lintel]

a change that will increase the global amount of esa users from 3 to 5

[dense locust]

yes

[keen zodiac]

statis blessing probably becoming sentry focused eventually

[plush flame]

im sorry????????????

fucking 2 sentry slots????????????????

[crude geode]

esa truly is an accessory that exists

[dense locust]

yeah I'm still iffy on it myself
its probably too strong but its sentries so what else is new

[keen zodiac]

on the same tier as sanctified spark

[plush flame]

how would you even make it work

[indigo yacht]

closer to from 0 to 15, it'll give esa a niche so it's not just fucking worse papyrus scarab anymore

[plush flame]

1 sentry is too weak but 2 sentries is insane would it be like 2 sentries and -12% sentry damage or smth

[indigo yacht]

i can't spell

[worthy lintel]

+2 sentry slots but reduces sentry damage by 66%

balanc

[crude geode]

[indigo yacht]

i mean i think the item itself is mostly fine, sentries are overtuned but I'd say that's usually the sentry's fault not items that buff them
also sentry usage isn't exceptionally common so it'll probably just end up encouraging people to use stuff they haven't used before which at least in the short term is good

now it also gives 20% melee speed

so it's a good thing we dont have pml whips yet

[indigo yacht]

though kaleidoscope already annihilates storm weaver so that won't help matters

[half imp]

it's peak...

current numbers for 2.2 ESA are:

20% melee speed
1.15x specialist ranged damage
-25% mana cost
+2 sentry slot
10% rogue speed

[half imp]

yeah exactly

It's like, yes it's very good

but it also encourages a playstyle people skip

[dense locust]

esa meta will be upon us

[plush flame]

like rogue projectile or attack speed

[lavish yoke]

so is it supposed to be like encouraging subclass playstyles

[dense locust]

could you imagine if it was projectile speed
just telling rogue to fuck off

[lavish yoke]

specialist ranged, sentry summoner, mage

[plush flame]

thats what it is rn iirc

[dense locust]

its stealth gen I think

[plush flame]

oh yeah

[dense locust]

its ranged that has velocity

[plush flame]

its camper that has the stealth velocity

[dense locust]

and even then its like 25%

[lavish yoke]

why do people keep on being hacked holy

theres been like 20 mr beast scams in cmt today

[plush flame]

yeah 25% ranged velocity and 15% stealth gen

[dense locust]

they need that mrbeast money

[lavish yoke]

because ranger absolutely needs projectile velocity

[plush flame]

misty grease give me crypto

got current esa sucks so much ass

the mana cost reduction is decent but like thats the only thing there

[lavish yoke]

only useful for whispering death immunity

[plush flame]

especially now that its -25% and not 0.75x

[lavish yoke]

and that's not even that threatening of a debuff

[half imp]

Attack speed

Same stat as GOR

but less strong bc it has no downside

[half imp]

Melee speed and a minion slot together isn't terrible for summoner

but it's got steep competition

And no post ml whips

[half imp]

Yeah, it's meant to boost more "niche" class stats instead of normal raw damage boosts

[half imp]

Finally 🙏

[lavish yoke]

im not sure how niche mana cost is

[half imp]

it's more niche than damage and crit

[lavish yoke]

fair enough

[half imp]

it's the closest thing mage has to a stat that makes sense for it

Ranged was especially hard because it genuinely has no real equivalent stat so we just stole shroomite

[drowsy plank]

mana star drop rate

[indigo yacht]

new accessory that converts your bullets/arrows as opposed to a weapon doing it

[lavish yoke]

an accessory that converts your bullets to arrows and vice versa

[half imp]

What if it gave homing to all ranged attacks that use arrows, bullets, rockets or darts?

[drowsy plank]

[lavish yoke]

An accessory that murders you

[kind laurel]

accessory that lets you shoot ammo without a weapon

[worthy lintel]

survival test skeletons playthrough

or would it be rogue 2?

[indigo yacht]

accessory that converts the player into 1mol of gas at stp

[novel belfry]

in my eyes half the soul artifacts (Eldritch and Auric) desperately need reworks

dimensional and profaned are fine

[indigo yacht]

auric artifacts should just give 2 kindle staff summons for free again

actually

no

you should be able to equip an unlimited number of them

[novel belfry]

honestly i love that profaned soul artifact's donor straight up became a dev and used that power to give themselves a developer upgrade to their donor item

[indigo yacht]

and no other changes

[novel belfry]

i love that genuinely

[indigo yacht]

see you use wings and then a defensive accessory and then five auric artifacts and then you have infinite damage

[novel belfry]

yharon's draconids used to also buff your player while summoned

In addition, the Son of Yharon increases life regen by 2, increases defense by 5, and increases movement speed by 10% while summoned

though ya it wasnt much

[plush flame]

why would you need a defensive accessory when 500 draconids would genuinely butcher anything

like atp just use dsa

[indigo yacht]

i would have said interstellar stompers but everyone in this channel hates fun iirc ❤️‍🩹

[plush flame]

or even better

batholith bangle

[indigo yacht]

truth nuke

[plush flame]

shoutout to my scal nohit loadout

bangle carry 💪

[frail fox]

Probably viable in it’s current state

[half imp]

ESA is fine when stats are good

ASA is also getting buffed

(instead of +1 minion slot for each draconid, it makes draconids cost 4 slots instead of 5)

[indigo yacht]

👀

[dense locust]

(still mid I fear)

[frail fox]

Good for minmax builds!

[indigo yacht]

yeah but now you can get 4 dragons from 16 slots instead of being stuck with only 3

ever considered that

[dense locust]

ok so it takes slightly less slot minmaxing to get a 4th draconid

this does not affect the fact that draconids are not very good

[indigo yacht]

you're looking at it too deeply

using critical thinking and stuff

just consider: lots of dragons

[dense locust]

tenryu + stardrag + 1 kindle + disgourger is 7 dragons for only 15 slots
asa with 16 slots is only 4 dragons

[half imp]

Add draconis too

And caustic staff

[dense locust]

true...

[novel belfry]

thats so lame ngl

draconids are not that cool of a minion to justify special treatment

like, Ark of the Cosmos is a far better choice to have an accessory that buffs it

[crude geode]

No

AotC does not need more shit

It’s already the line with the most attention given to it, we don’t need to shove an accessory that modifies it

[keen zodiac]

the very concept of an accessory that buffs one specific weapon is shit

[fossil finch]

the point int that it should get it just that its stupi d

[crude geode]

I’d also just argue that we’ve learned that accessories that only really work with a small handful of weapons are just. nightmares to deal with with the example of Hive Pack and it’s dead corpse upgrade

[crude geode]

Yeah

[half imp]

how is hive pack an example of an accessory being a nightmare to deal with

[crude geode]

Hyperbole on my part, apologies.
It’s mostly just bc it. only affects one weapon for each class, aside from Ranger where it affects two. I can’t recall if the weapons were balanced around it being equipped (I believe it was but my memory is hazy) but it just doesn’t make for an interesting accessory.

[half imp]

i disagree with the last assertment

also it effects more than just one weapon per class

[craggy girder]

arent draconids just kinda ass

[dense locust]

Shhhhh

[craggy girder]

like even if they costed 3 i dont think they'd be any good

[dense locust]

Salvageable just bring back their stat boosts clue

[half imp]

draconid's power is not the issue with ASA

[craggy girder]

i mean yeah, i moreso mean even with reworked asa

[half imp]

yeah, it's just a buff to make it less obtuse in function

[craggy girder]

5 -> 4 slots per draconid is like. one more draconid if you use all draconids ?

[half imp]

which tbf is worth +4 minion slots if you have full draconids

[craggy girder]

yea but thats with All draconids, which arent very good in the first place
like you're better fullspeccing into saros or using smth like midnight sun

im like 50% sure you get more damage per minion with beacon over draconid

[half imp]

In Vanilla:

• Bee Gun
• Bee Keeper
• Beenade
• Hive Five
• The Bee's Knees
• Wasp Gun
• Hornet Staff
• Honey Comb
• Bee Cloak
• Honey Balloon
• Sweetheart Necklace
• Amber Horseshoe Balloon
• Stinger Necklace

In Calamity too:

• Plaguebringer Armor
• Alchemical Decanter
• Deific Amulet
• Rampart of Deities
• The Swarmer
• The Hive
• Plaguenade
• Fuel Cell Bundle
• Infected Remote

Hive pack is a totally fine accessory tbh

ASA's main issue is it's

• way stronger than most other offensives
• only works with one other item

So instead of increasing build diveristy, like a good accessory does, it decreases it

[crude geode]

Yeah

[indigo yacht]

now you're thinking with dragons!

[half imp]

I'd say a good accessory is determined primarily by

• Is it intuitive / does it do what a player expects?
• Does it increase or decrease build variety

[craggy girder]

scal/exos
kindle: C/D
beacon [A/B]/B
saros: [4:46 / 4:33 / 3:54]/[6:39 / 4:36 / 4:04] so like high A??

[half imp]

ASA failed both before, but the change makes it at least pass the "intuitive" part now

it still does not increase build variety, though

[crude geode]

Again, draconid’s viability does not matter for the purposes of the latter question

[craggy girder]

what did old ASA do? didnt it buff minions per draconid?

[half imp]

it spawned 2 draconids

[craggy girder]

oh.

[half imp]

way better effect tbh

[craggy girder]

did it. never buff minions with more draconids?

[half imp]

don't think so

[crude geode]

And that gave you the stat buff inherent to draconids and 8 extra slots, essentially

[fossil finch]

they should revive ml swarmer tbh

solely because it was funny

[half imp]

ml?

[craggy girder]

that sounds like a good rework actually. 5 slots consumed for what in my head is a summoner acc

like they arent good dps wise but they do exist and they can infact do damage, plus with ASA if you wanted to do so it could buff your other guys with just one or two out

[half imp]

draconids are good dps wise

they're just not broken

[indigo yacht]

auric soul artifact should transform you into yharon

you can play as the boss

[craggy girder]

they're like C/D they're not marvelous

[half imp]

A tier is like, slightly above where they should be even

[half imp]

okay C tier is exactly where they should be without ASA

with ASA they realistically should be B tier

[craggy girder]

c compared to the rest of the pack of a's and b's

[half imp]

... i should have made ASA +1 sentry slot per draconid summoned i'm so washed

[crude geode]

TRUEEEE

[half imp]

that's an issue with those weapons more than draconids

[crude geode]

^
Summoner be busted

[indigo yacht]

aren't there genuinely like 2 sentries on that tier and one is post exos

[half imp]

one post scal other post exos, both with 1 slot limit

[craggy girder]

if essentially every other item on that tier is better than this one, i feel that is an issue of the weapon itself instead of its neighbors

[indigo yacht]

oh yeah perdition

[half imp]

no it's just that the other weapons are stronger than they should be

[indigo yacht]

wait is perdítion a sentry

[half imp]

also ASA should be weaker than the others bc it's a direct drop

direct boss drops should be weaker than things you have to go make

[craggy girder]

yeah thats why my hypothetical rework would be Cool

[half imp]

not asa

draconids

[half imp]

yes

[craggy girder]

because you knowingly trade your dps for stats instead

[half imp]

memes unsentried it and i re-sentried it

because unsentrying it was so stupid

[indigo yacht]

yeah i recall that weirdness

[half imp]

with it being a sentry scal has

• normal minion
• active weapon
• one-time-use minion
• sentry

instead of having two one-time-use minions

[crude geode]

Yeahhh

[half imp]

perdition does need to be a better sentry though it's

weird

[deft yew]

It’s not a sentry in any respect other than taking a sentry slot 🤷‍♂️

[half imp]

and being marked as a sentry internally

i should make atlas scale with sentry slots spent on it

[craggy girder]

hey checking back what would be a normal amount of defense to give a player for summoning a minion. asking here bc topical

[half imp]

i had the really stupid idea a few months ago to make Perdition spawn an Scal arena box that you couldn't leave but give you mega buffs while inside it

[half imp]

what tier

[craggy girder]

auric

[half imp]

probably like idk 5-6 per slot

[craggy girder]

(im writing my asa rework in a document and i want it accurate Ish)

[crude geode]

Funny idea

[half imp]

well

[craggy girder]

would 15 be too much

[half imp]

per slot? yes

[craggy girder]

per draconid

[half imp]

that's worse than brittle star then

[craggy girder]

lmao really

[half imp]

but it attacks so

[half imp]

15/5 = 3/slot

[craggy girder]

sob

[half imp]

although brittle star is 100% too strong

[craggy girder]

yea 1000%

[keen zodiac]

i thought brittle star was also 3 now

[half imp]

and also brittle star doesn't attack

[half imp]

iirc 4 but gets summon penalty or smth

if draconids are a full-offensive-power minion though then 15 is honestly probably right

[craggy girder]

other than defense, what would be a good buff to give. i dont want to give regen (obvious reasons) and the minions experience a buff themselves

[half imp]

each draconid gives you a revive like yharon!!!!

[craggy girder]

speed isnt really useful, no one uses flight time

[crude geode]

[tepid crown]

acceleration cluele

[craggy girder]

(you can just Grapple and "Yay")

[kind laurel]

Let's just kill draconoids

[novel belfry]

no. its something similar to the viral sprout sage poison

[half imp]

no

[north oracle]

I think this is a wonderful idea

[dense locust]

no potential issues

[half imp]

thanks Bast Statue from Terraria

[craggy girder]

they could just grant another minion slot

[novel belfry]

except instead of being a debuff exclusively dealt by the minions you get to inflict it or something

[half imp]

no cooldown but it deletes the minion whenused

[craggy girder]

+15 defense and +1 minion slot per Draconid. perfect. this has no issues whatsoever

[half imp]

asa really does not need a buff like that

it's actually like, the right power level

[craggy girder]

no i know thats why im not writing that

[half imp]

it's just bad conceptually

[novel belfry]

ASA is lame

like wow you get more minion slots... yay

id rather itd have a more unique ability rather than whats effectively just more slots

[half imp]

asa should make all dragons do 1.72x damage

[craggy girder]

next update makes them cost less (5 -> 4)

[crude geode]

Disgorger upscale, you love to see it

[novel belfry]

well, what does this entail?

[indigo yacht]

tenryu meta

which would surely be doubly affected for 2.95x damage

[craggy girder]

is 5% DR too much? max of 15% if you spawn three draconids?

is that too much or is that okay. i have no knowledge abt DR on the auric tier

[novel belfry]

by making dragons do 1.72x damage does it mean these guys?

Pulse Dragon
Dragon Pow
Vesuvius
Pristine Fury
Mutated Truffle
Dragonblood Disgorger
Yharon's Kindle Staff

[glass arch]

no it means yharon deals 1.72x damage

clearly

[novel belfry]

[craggy girder]

it means that zeratros is 1.72x more dead

[novel belfry]

was waiting for someone else to figure that out

[keen zodiac]

where drataliornus

[novel belfry]

well hes there clearly

[glass arch]

drat doesnt count

[novel belfry]

surely i did not forget him

[glass arch]

its not a real weapon

[craggy girder]

wasnt drat a donor

or like. whatever The Camper is

"Reward Item" i guess

[novel belfry]

ya

it was basically no-hiting all of rev

and they did it probably back when blossum flux was still a scaling legendary

[drowsy plank]

why the fuck was the decision to rework ASA to literally just shuffle the numbers around

that sucks

[craggy girder]

I Wonder Why They Stopped Doing Reward Items

[craggy girder]

reads better i guess

its the same effect just easier to understand

[drowsy plank]

just buff draconids and kill the item at this point

[glass arch]

if i were to choose an asa rework while keeping a similar effect

all multi-slot summons take 1 less slot to summon

[novel belfry]

jfl deserves a reward for the no accessory pre-dog jared no hit

[craggy girder]

true actually

[novel belfry]

like genuinely

[tepid crown]

if i were to rework asa it wouldnt do anything with those fuck ass draconids

[craggy girder]

i think this breaks void marionette

[dense locust]

oh god

[craggy girder]

its a multisummon but it can work with 1 slot and i think with this itd technically take 0 (unless specifically told not to do that)

[tepid crown]

8 costing ares skeleton...

[novel belfry]

hold up, this crackpot idea might work?

[half imp]

no that idea would not work

that's impossible to balance

[dense locust]

it would not work because its broken as shit

[novel belfry]

yea sure

wait when did you dev

[glass arch]

no because each segment is counted as its own summon

[novel belfry]

YOU'RE ORANGE TOO?

[craggy girder]

no see Calamity Devs you're thinking with like. logic. and reason. and sense

[half imp]

ASA should make dragonfire stack

[craggy girder]

ASA should be pml scions curio

but not for irradiated and for

[glass arch]

asa is already a nonsensical accessory make it make even less sense

[craggy girder]

idk. fire

just all fire

[dense locust]

that comes with being a dev I think yes

[tepid crown]

asa should have nebulous cores revive cluele

[mossy pelican]

Why are you orange

[keen zodiac]

give it a silva revive that stacks with silva armor

[craggy girder]

honestly if a major rework was done, i could honestly see "fighting for a revive" to be apretty cool

[half imp]

for each stack, the duration of older stacks is cut by idk 25%? 50%?

[dense locust]

🟧

[north oracle]

They didn't have enough Fluffy in the dev server ig

[half imp]

so you can use stuff that applies a lot of dragonfire to melt enemies

[tepid crown]

asa has necro armour revive

[mossy pelican]

First gps now crit, who’s next to become dev, doze?

[dense locust]

asa dragon scales.....

[mossy pelican]

[craggy girder]

if you do enough damage, you get a rebirth charge which can either be spent when you die or flatly boosts [Stat] by 10% for each, with a max of 3 charges

[tepid crown]

[novel belfry]

yeah but anyhow i still think ASA and ESA really do need reworks because their current effects are super lame

[half imp]

necro armor revive but it summons 2 firey draconids before you die

man i can't wait to rework draconids they have such a cool sprite for such a lame effect

[craggy girder]

they have a cool sprite?

[keen zodiac]

have you seen it

[craggy girder]

i know they're not nuggets anymore but i rate the current sprite like 6/10. nothing outta ordinary

[half imp]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/images/Fiery_Draconid.gif?1f8ddd

[novel belfry]

you have questionable tastes

[tepid crown]

they have more frames than yharon!!!!

[craggy girder]

yea they look like supreme soul seeker but big and yellow

[gilded citrus]

That is a cool sprite

[dense locust]

nah doze is right this sprite is cool

I like the green

[keen zodiac]

[craggy girder]

not saying the sprite is Bad per se, its just not Awesome

[tepid crown]

what

[keen zodiac]

yes it is

[tepid crown]

theyre like

[half imp]

it's pretty different

[tepid crown]

entirely different

[gilded citrus]

Also dang this looks like the body is just a tube other things is attached to

[half imp]

they both have wings wow

[novel belfry]

it looks like a really flawed attempt of recreating a dragon

[craggy girder]

the wing and feet look similar

[novel belfry]

and i love it for being that

[craggy girder]

it is a good sprite i just dont treat it highly

[half imp]

they both look like wings and feet 😢

[gilded citrus]

How the shit do the wings look similar

[half imp]

also yeah

[craggy girder]

the uuuuuh. bones of the wings i dont know their technical names

[half imp]

they both just look like they were made by the same artist that's it

imo

[craggy girder]

yea thats not really a sin against it just smth i noted

[half imp]

(no idea if they actually were)

[craggy girder]

Again

[gilded citrus]

You would expect the dragon summon to be the ones with feathers but no its the demon skeleton with the feathers while the dragon has fire and bone

Or branch

[half imp]

it is kindle staff

[craggy girder]

well i mean its kindling yeah

[half imp]

like kindling

[gilded citrus]

Is that made of rock, bone or wood i cant tell

I see

[craggy girder]

its like a tree dragon but its on fire

[gilded citrus]

So wood prolly

[craggy girder]

with a gold hat

[half imp]

the staff itself looks like wood

like the tail does

[fleet grotto]

it looks like ash wood exactly

[gilded citrus]

Ashwood summon

YEA

[half imp]

yeah it does

[tepid crown]

which is funny because im pretty sure these sprites existed before ash wood

[half imp]

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/images/thumb/Son_of_Yharon_(1.1.5.094).png/56px-Son_of_Yharon_(1.1.5.094).png?57fb78

[half imp]

1.5 yeh

[crude geode]

Classic chicken nugget

[half imp]

i love this sprite so much

fat baby

[fleet grotto]

craftable with 25 ashwood, 10 amber, 3 topaz, and 5 shadow scales/tissue samples

[crude geode]

My chud son with every disease <3

[fossil finch]

i'm sure if a dev digs they could find why the yharon weapons r like that

seems kinda weirdly specific to have been thrown together randomly i think

[north oracle]

depending on when it was made the discussion could've been entirely aoutside of the dev server tbf

[fossil finch]

not that old

[golden sonnet]

I swear we already did this

Maybe it was just a discussion

[kind laurel]

I do as well

[drowsy plank]

#suggestions-discussion message

here's rover talking about the suggestion being in posting

i cant actually find it in voting though

[mossy pelican]

Its a different one

That one was to combine the two

[indigo yacht]

i think it might've died in the purge

[vocal wedge]

I know that's you Batman!

[calm knot]

alright tear my suggestion apart

[half imp]

no

it's fine

Electrified specifically could use a flask

We don't have a good water buff to flask though

[calm knot]

yeah true

diamond of the deep is good enough

cold is cold

its

there

[half imp]

Cold could probably flask Nightwither

[calm knot]

true!

luminite ore/bar

[half imp]

Stratus flask that consumes starbursts to apply voidfrost

would be fun

[calm knot]

wait hes cooking

an actual interesting to use flask

[mossy pelican]

An iq too high

[calm knot]

never thought id see the day

[half imp]

Flask that applies Glacial State when

[mossy pelican]

Flash that just frostbites your enemy to death

[calm knot]

item dropped by gfb permafrost

[half imp]

Although really like

Logically none of these flasks make sense

Except maybe cold

[calm knot]

whaddaya mean

[half imp]

let me go dip my weapon in lightning so it has lightning stick to it yes

[mossy pelican]

See thats where the magic comes in

[calm knot]

there is an anthropomorphic seahorse man nextdoor

[mossy pelican]

Flames don’t necessarily stick to an arrow without a specially made arrow for it

[calm knot]

sense was gone long ago

[mossy pelican]

Let alone a sword

[half imp]

flask of fire isn't just a fire

It's hellstone

you're covering the weapon in hellstone

[calm knot]

also it looks like the terrarian drinks it

so

[mossy pelican]

Lightning could be auric then

[calm knot]

do with that what you will

[mossy pelican]

[calm knot]

or vermillion

[half imp]

shh

[mossy pelican]

Empowers themselves

All flasks should just inflict the user with the debuff

[half imp]

I'd say no to vermilion from a design perspective of

flasks make weapons inflicting that debuff pointless

[calm knot]

yeah the amalgam does it anyway

[half imp]

Not for long

[calm knot]

but it does nonetheless

[half imp]

Almost all the amalgam debuffs are being downgraded a tier for being too strong

[calm knot]

thats fair