suggestions-discussion

[glass arch]

not necessarily on the items page

[half imp]

I'm talking about Cerebral Mindtrick actually on the player but yes there's also confused

And confused does work on most enemies

[glass arch]

its almost exclusively bosses confused doesnt work on

[limber drift]

Wait do the rotten brain’s upgrades also inflict brain rot too?

[half imp]

Yes

[limber drift]

Also random thought why are brain rot and burning blood basically the same debuff

Like they deal the same dps and are the same element

[novel belfry]

imma be real man you only really manage debuffs for bosses

[tepid crown]

because they are

they have the exact same function

be an evil related sickness dot debuff

[glass arch]

ok? that doesnt change the fact that you were wrong about confusion not applying to the majority of enemies?

[novel belfry]

i suppose so

[tepid crown]

using confusion on ooa enemies is funny

[mossy pelican]

Flask of nanites is actually pretty helpful for events

Bc of the confusion

[deft yew]

They exist because every boss has to have a unique damaging debuff slapped onto every attack that you can’t negate

Right guys

[drowsy plank]

im pretty sure they used to have unique secondary effects but they were. you know. stupid

[indigo yacht]

minion knockback reduced by 30%

[drowsy plank]

like i dont think anyone is asking for this one back

also because hive mind used to inflict. shadowflame and cursed inferno 💀

[sleek turret]

awful who cooked these

[drowsy plank]

lmao

[sleek turret]

random bullshit go

[half imp]

wait cook

this is how we can finally make summoner balanced

make Holy Flames do 20 dps and -3 minion slots but +70% whip range

[grave zinc]

@half imp - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Rework Spear of Paleolith and Profaned Partisan]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[half imp]

lol

[dense locust]

huge?

[distant gyro]

you suck

[half imp]

i did mean to stop that one from getting to voting but then the whole like

great botpocalypse of april

[distant gyro]

april folds

[frail fox]

Thanks Obama

[royal tapir]

Congrats on the implemented suggeston

[oblique birch]

Wow what a good suggestion I'm glad it passed

[humble scarab]

you never use magic missile while having inventory opened

and even then, you can spam click

[kind dune]

buffs/ weapons and armour does it too, the main point is the gruesome eminence

[fossil finch]

move

move yourself

i mean this really applies to everything not just held weapons

i guess the problem with eminence is the range being controlled by you

you can technically disable your ui to prevent this

fascinating

[craggy girder]

i believe this is fixed in 1.4.5

[kind dune]

I will remove it then, thank you!

[craggy girder]

all good

[drowsy plank]

...we're really saying "dank" in the big '26 huh

@crude parrot you're over the 1k character limit

[crude parrot]

BRO IT'S SO SICK MAN HAVE YOU SEEN IT

[crude parrot]

aight sorry g i'll cut it down a bit

LIKE BRO D: I CRI

[drowsy plank]

this is probably because levi teeth got rework and jaws didnt

jaws still resembles the old behavior

[fleet grotto]

jaws will likely get a rework because it's lame

[drowsy plank]

lmao it's getting outperformed by fuckin neptune's bounty

since reaper teeth are

technically a set now i guess

thank you donor item the malestrom for making that a thing for some reason

[crude parrot]

based, i was honestly super suprised when i found the leviathan teeth, bc everything before that felt like "stealth strike = more dmg/more pierce/more projectiles", and then i dropped that and instantly was like nah bro, this is absolutely heat

[drowsy plank]

im sure some day in 2086 stealth strikes will be interesting

[crude parrot]

LMAO yeah im doing a playthrough with friends rn and they have all these insane weapons with cool abilities, and my post-moonlord gear is basically the same trinkets i've been using for the last 10 years + 90% of my weapon "stealth abilities" are just "oh now you cause a 20 dmg bleed on hit" while throwing out a normal lil axe you can't even see xd

but i like the archtype of going pure glass cannon just "hold the line for me boys" and standing there absolutely blasting the second stealth bar fills up and shredding dudes

[novel belfry]

wait wth

thats an INSANE stealth strike holy commoly

[crude parrot]

RIGHT BRO IT'S SO SICK LAMO

and you can like flick it too

hol up

[drowsy plank]

@crude parrot ok you still need a title for the suggestion too, the title isn't counted for the 1k character limit

it's the bolded part on all the other ones, u just need to make sure the body isn't over 1k

[crude parrot]

oh oops i didn't realize i deleted it by accident lmao

[drowsy plank]

it's fine

[crude parrot]

pure cinema

[indigo yacht]

"literally dank asf"

[crude parrot]

LMAO

[drowsy plank]

it should work like gravedigger's shovel as evidenced by the fact that it... is a shovel

[dense locust]

I think this shit is a vanilla item every time I come across it

[craggy girder]

it shoudl work like a directional gravediggers i think

i mean ig its appeal is to be like uuuh

silver?

faster, but poor pickaxe pwoer

[limber drift]

Honestly making it into a gravedigger’s shovel might help but like it’d have to be a side-grade due to both being obtainable preboss, but like how do you make a gravedigger’s shovel sidegrade

[drowsy plank]

i mean not really?

do you need to make tin pickaxe a sidegrade to copper pickaxe or whatever

[fossil finch]

how do you DARE remove spadefish

[drowsy plank]

i know vanilla gives them slightly different values but i think calamity standardizes them, and in preboss it can be useful to have multiple ways to get an item

[indigo yacht]

calamity should do this

[fossil finch]

fucking

spdefish

imf ucking

[drowsy plank]

spfish

[fossil finch]

nobody knows this item exists btw

not a soul would be able to tell this is from pre rust and dust

older than: bouncy spiky ball

[drowsy plank]

that's not true, this is just because it hasn't been removed yet

once it's removed we'll have 18 people asking for it to be reimplemented like it's acid barrel or something

[fossil finch]

OLDER THAN WULFRUM BATTERY

[drowsy plank]

insane

[indigo yacht]

rework spadefish into a blast barrel sidegrade

[drowsy plank]

killing you

[limber drift]

But like Making it act the same would be redundant because its way more tedious to get than the shovel would be

[frail fox]

Fishers are so familiar with this beloved item

[indigo yacht]

do you know how many of these fucking things i get while fishing

yeah what gp said

[limber drift]

I only know it cos it used to be an angler reward in calamity

[fossil finch]

1.4.1-1.4.3 was like a Mystery Era of calamity mod

[drowsy plank]

this is reminding me why the fuck does cactus pickaxe exist

the only wood type to get one

[fossil finch]

better than copper

[dense locust]

felt like it

[indigo yacht]

i think the wiki is wrong too there's no way it's a percent chance and not a specific catch rarity

[fossil finch]

this was added in 2019 it is very possible it does not have very modern fishing code

[drowsy plank]

WHY IS A PICKAXE MADE OF CACTUS BETTER THAN ONE MADE OF COPPER

this makes me so mad for no reason

[frail fox]

2019 cal was crazy

[indigo yacht]

it's all in the same file i would be utterly astounded if they had just ignored it

in fact

i highly doubt it was ever a 2.5% chance

[fossil finch]

this is calamity mod

[indigo yacht]

I'd bet money that was just someone misrepresenting the catch rarity because it's easier to understand that way

[fossil finch]

this is also possible

[drowsy plank]

would you be? considering it still exists? this kind of obscurity is exactly why these things dont get removed in the first place

[indigo yacht]

it happened with abyssal amulet

[indigo yacht]

most of the file got rewritten in 2.1

[drowsy plank]

if it was actually in a place people checked i feel like it would've died by now

i c

[indigo yacht]

dont ask why i know that

[dense locust]

the code searcher

[frail fox]

Spectre rifle treatment

[fossil finch]

i have a need to remind you calamity nerfed cactus pickaxe power from 35 to 34 for like sixteen villion years until i pointed it out last month to a developer

[limber drift]

The changelog on it’s page suggests it is a 2.5% chance because it specifically states it is only a 1% chance in hardmode

[fossil finch]

to my knowledge this does not actually do anything btw

[dense locust]

last month? but the change got reverted 2.5 months ago

[fossil finch]

okay i might have misremembered when i did it

[indigo yacht]

ok yes and no this is ass

[fossil finch]

fascinating

[frail fox]

If you go below 35% pickaxe power it should just not work

[keen zodiac]

why 😭

[fossil finch]

wait 1.4 made it slower on purpose

it used to be the same speed

so it was an objective upgrade because of no range penalty

[frail fox]

Funny

[indigo yacht]

on rare fishing attempts it's a... 50% phm and 10% Hardmode ?? i think lemme check tmod source code

[dense locust]

hey it doesnt have coppers -1 range !

[limber drift]

It is kind of weird how cactus is kind of a wood but also not
Like all the woods have a bow and hammer, but cactus doesn’t, but cactus does have a pickaxe for some reason

[novel belfry]

Spadefish should use the same ability as that Gravedigger's Shovel

its kinda just there

[limber drift]

But then what would be its point in existing

Why not just use the shovel

[dense locust]

is gravediggers just graveyard merchant

[limber drift]

No you craft it in graveyard

[dense locust]

ah

[limber drift]

Out of iron/lead and wood

[novel belfry]

i tried to search up suggestions that mention my name (i.e. my suggs), but for some reason it just instead went all the way back to 2021

and this was the first result

[limber drift]

I just remembered how 2020 was 6 years ago

I feel so old

But like Spadefish is so baffling to me that it exists cos why do there need to be 2 pre-boss fished up pickaxes

[fossil finch]

monkeys paw

[limber drift]

Also wait spadefish’ page says its fast but like it’s use speed is “19 (average)”

[half imp]

CV is perfect

don't talk to me or my void ever again

[fleet grotto]

the sprite is kinda old and it shows ngl

[half imp]

you're kinda old L

[glass arch]

i dont even know what cv is supposed to be as a sprite

[fleet grotto]

youre older than me!

[dense locust]

doze be real even you have issues with the fight

[frail fox]

Hey well it’s better than the competition!

[dense locust]

what competition

[frail fox]

True they don’t even put up a fight

(Signus, Weaver, Polter)

[fleet grotto]

2 of these are in dire need of a rework

[limber drift]

Ceaseless is weird like why are there two consecutive dungeon bosses post moonlord

[fleet grotto]

because youre fighting them in that order

[drowsy plank]

to be fair the sentinels dont have an order, so there are other bosses that could be between them

it's better than plantera and golem that's for sure

[novel belfry]

and quite frankly, you can just go for ceaseless after polterghast

[half imp]

I only have solutions

[limber drift]

Kind of but like does anyone actually do stuff between polter and ceaseless cos your already at the dungeon, and like if you fought ceaseless first theres a fair chance you’d not have much to upgrade

[frail fox]

You can also skip all 3 because they’re extremely unimportant 💔

[limber drift]

NO! STORM WEAVER IS TOTALLY IMPORTANT TO CALAMITY’S PLOT

[half imp]

We can fix that

Goodbye alternative cosmic worm recipe 😇

[frail fox]

Remove the alternate worm recipe immediately

[novel belfry]

heres a problem or two
its really hard to tell that there's supposed to be a zone around CV that triggers it to move to another spot.
additionally, CV's current movement makes it move alongside the Dark Energies that, unlike a lot of Calamity-modified enemies, are always contact-damaging.

[drowsy plank]

i mean at least ceasless and signus have the distortion and statsis quest Eventually™

idk wtf weaver has

[frail fox]

Weaver has aura

[half imp]

if you make it move that's simply a skill issue

[novel belfry]

okay but making that mistake feels annoying and hard to understand

which makes it feel obnoxus

[half imp]

skill issue smh

[novel belfry]

get it? pun?

anyhow i think the punishment is hard to understand and too harsh

if you ask me, if you trigger CV's movement, it shouldn't immediately just move, but rather telegraph its next position, and then teleport there

[half imp]

jokes aside the three major issues I have with CV

• it always aligns right of you, so it's not symmetrical
• melting dark energy to not have to move
• it doesn't telegraph the area you're supposed to stay in

[half imp]

The point of the movement is that it's a harsh punishment

[novel belfry]

did i get ragebaited by doze

[half imp]

it just needs to telegraph it

[novel belfry]

also i think its. a lame way to punish the player when your boss is a portal that sucks you in

what if it took notes from WoF and instead tried to suck you into itself

if you went too far that is

[half imp]

that would suck because then you can't reposition CV on purpose

you're stuck wherever he ended up in your arena

[novel belfry]

anyhow i also feel like CV really doesn't do a good job of utlizing its dark energy minions interestingly

this stings because. BoC rework

[half imp]

now, if CV was always locked to one spot no matter what? then it'd be fine

but when CV moves each phase not being able to reposition CV would be way more obnoxious

perhaps I should make CV anchor itself above the spawner and never move

then leaving the area violently rips you back towards the center, probably hitting you into dark energy

ughh this is making me want to test CV edits but I have so much else I should do

[novel belfry]

well what are they

[half imp]

🤐

[hollow shell]

@limber drift You should at least mention its core gimmick
The reason it has a low power is because it has an unusually fast digging speed, the second-fastest mining/tool speed of all pickaxes in PreHM

Or, well
It would be, if
Calamity didn't significantly buff all vanilla tool speeds to be faster than it

lol

[novel belfry]

just testing you

[hollow shell]

Yeah ok then this is a matter of its core gimmick getting powercrept out of existence

Still worth mentioning I think
I like the idea of Spadefish :<

[fleet grotto]

i remember suggesting that maybe it could pick up gravedigger shovel's ability of mining soft blocks in an aoe

[limber drift]

I’m confused tho because it says its use speed is 19… which is the same as vanilla silver pickaxe, so are they the same speed

[hollow shell]

Use speed is not tool speed

[limber drift]

Oh I’m dumb

[limber drift]

Oh okay

[dense locust]

wait why is fossil pick just told to go fuck itself in cal

[hollow shell]

But yeah Calamity does buff the hell out of vanilla PreHM tool speeds so they're all slightly better than Spadefish, even the pre-Boss ones like Cactus
https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Vanilla_changes#Tools

So, Spadefish got left behind, left in the dust

[craggy girder]

bc fuck you fossil pickaxe

theres just so many pre-boss pickaxes that some just need to be dogshit

[limber drift]

I do have the slight idea where like it could be like gravedigger’s shovel, but since its a spade which like are normally smaller (?) maybe have it dig a 2x2 area instead of 3x3, but have it insta mine dirts instead of needing two uses

Also doesn’t spadefish trying to be the “fast pickaxe” but having low pickaxe power work against eachother since pickaxe power also determines how many hits an block needs to be broken

[hollow shell]

That's exactly the point

A classic example in vanilla is upgrading from Nightmare Pickaxe to Molten Pickaxe

Nightmare is fast but has under 100% power, meaning it takes two hits to break common Stone
Molten is slower, but has 100% power, meaning it only takes one hit to break common Stone
So in average mining Molten will be faster despite having a lower speed

The (intended) gimmick of Spadefish is to have such a fast tool speed that it makes up for its low power
You get through all the many hits you need to break blocks as quickly as the higher power pickaxes that need less hits

[frail fox]

Forgot or something

[novel belfry]

thatd be fun

alternatively you could turn it into a hardmode fish, theme it after some biome, and make it be a hm version of gravedigger

maybe it could still mine, but take way to long to feasibly mine non-dirt/sand/soil tiles, but instantly mine its intended target tiles

[golden sonnet]

I don't think this is true in practice, I always keep my molten pick in my piggy bank because things like bone pick are so much faster for mining literally everything but the things only molten can. Molten pick is so slow

[limber drift]

The issue with making into a hardmode version of shovel is that it’d have to be majorly rethemed because a “spadefish” feels way too meager to be fitting for a hardmode “pickaxe”, so it’d have to be changed a lot

[hollow shell]

Indeed! In that case Bone Pick actually is the niche that Spadefish is (ostensibly) trying to also occupy

Even faster than Nightmare, but lower pickaxe power

[novel belfry]

i mean i wouldnt really mind that

some things just need to be reworked significantly alongside getting a retier

[limber drift]

I mean it would be a lot of work for how few people would use it

[hollow shell]

People will use it if it is good

[limber drift]

Also like the idea of a hardmode shovel is weird cos like unless it can break stuff like stone it’d be very niche cos like at that point probably other pickaxes would be easier to use

[novel belfry]

ya prob

[hollow shell]

Current Cal devs are good programmers, they could find a way to reimplement the Gravedigger's Shovel effect but for common Stone

(and other "main"/"filler" biome blocks like Ice and Hardened Sand)

[limber drift]

I know but like it’d be kind of weird that a fish shovel is somehow strong enough to tear through stone

[hollow shell]

Make it a sick-ass lobster claw

[indigo yacht]

eyes

[hollow shell]

... also, regarding a pickaxe that's really good at specifically mining filler blocks,
Fables did it
https://calamityfables.wiki.gg/wiki/Moldy_Picklaw

[golden sonnet]

does not yield drops : (

[hollow shell]

for those who needn't 1800 stone blocks

[limber drift]

But what if I wanted 300 boulders

[crude geode]

^

The children yearn for bigger and boulder

[limber drift]

Bigger and Boulder… Heh I think I like that name

But yeah the fact that spadefish somehow still exists in tis current state is baffling

Also its sprite is also very weird like what is it even supposed to be

Like I get the shovel part but that doesn’t look like a fish

[tepid crown]

a fish with a spade as a tail

[limber drift]

You do mean as a fin cos fish don’t have tails

But like It doesn’t at all look like a fish

[tepid crown]

yes

[limber drift]

And also if it is meant to be the back fin don’t they normally not have the “rounded side” of the sin not at the back

Also like the shovel is so weird cos its literally just a shovel, not like where a reaver sharks head is pickaxe shaped, or idk the rockfish is kinda hammer shaped, the fish has a literal metal shovel for a tail

Like thats very weird

[craggy girder]

did you want this with a stick up its rear

(Atlantic Spadefish)

[limber drift]

SPADEFISH ARE A REAL THING???

And they look entirely different to cal’s

[craggy girder]

(im being pedantic. i think the spadefish is kinda meant to do a Huntail thing)

[limber drift]

What do you mean by that

[craggy girder]

((not direct inspiration but probably similar in theory))

fish with big thing on the end of it because Why The Fuck Else Would It Have That

maybe the spades a lure. who knows. i dont

[glass arch]

huntail i thought was more inspired by oarfish

[limber drift]

Aren’t huntail and gorebyss eels

[craggy girder]

the main body is meant around eels and oarfish yeah i moreso mean the lure on its tail

[glass arch]

gorebyss is closer to a dolphin methinks

[craggy girder]

because again why would a fish evolve to have a somewhat sharp tail

[errant wren]

because it looks cool obviously

[craggy girder]

but thats LAAAAAME i need evolutionary reasoning!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[errant wren]

mating reasons, then

[limber drift]

But cal’s spadefish isn’t that it has a sharp fin, its that its fin is a literal metal shovel

[craggy girder]

a metal shovel has a higher pickaxe power

i think its fin is just that, a fin. but its probably slightly keratinous

[limber drift]

No it doesn’t the gravedigger’s shovel’s pickaxe power is in the code (30% btw) lower than the spadefish’s (34%) which suggests somehow the spadefish’s tail is stronger than just an actual shovel

[craggy girder]

what i thought gravediggers was 45% but it just couldnt break stone

[limber drift]

From Terraria wiki

It doesn’t really work in the way normal pickaxes work but like it internally weaker than spadefish

[craggy girder]

funky.

[fossil finch]

i dont see how that matters for the discussion since spadefish existed way before gravediggers anyways

[limber drift]

I will say that turning it into a shovel sidegrade, while kind of neat, would face the issue that like gravedigger’s hardly used even so I doubt anyone would spend their time fishing for such a niche item

[novel belfry]

actually no

ya'll dont get it

the obvious solution to spadefish is to base it off trawling fish of some kind

wait

wait

WAIT

I FOUND IT

THE ORIGIN OF THE TERM TROLLING

[drowsy plank]

god fuck i remember when this was going to be a perrenial thing back when iban was still on the team

[lucid marsh]

🐚 "Kill perennial"

[craggy girder]

@limber drift planned im 85% sure

[keen zodiac]

i know that archon at least wants to

[glass arch]

not a bad idea to throw it in anyways

bc otherwise it becomes a signus rename moment where its been what 3 years

[karmic bridge]

earth automaton

[keen zodiac]

i'm in the camp of just removing it

bro serves zero purpose

there's already several post wof spears

[karmic bridge]

😢

[limber drift]

He does suck currently in like every aspect

But like he could be made cool if they do the right things

But honestly he could be removed and no-one would care

[lucid marsh]

Yeah. I also think removing it would be better

Give its drops to random hardmode dessert enemies or something

[keen zodiac]

more hardmode desert content

[lucid marsh]

The earth elemental has two drops which are both sand themed weapons

Slap them on the sand elemental and call it a day

Side note: I wish the wiki had a way to see the drops added to vanilla enemies

There's no way to ask the wiki "which items does the sand elemental drop in calamity"

[limber drift]

Just make them crafted with forbidden fragments since like it’d be less luck dependant

[worthy fractal]

are the other elemental weapons also going to be resprited? (vanishing point e.g)

[boreal lichen]

yeppers

[worthy fractal]

ok good

[deft yew]

Just remove all its drops too! Who cares!!!

[golden sonnet]

I agree, none of them are memorable

[deft yew]

Seriously, how many people would miss Comet Quasher but worse, projectile vomit spear, and a generic gun at the tier that already has too many of those

[half imp]

Slag Magnum would be sad

because then I can't rework it and name it Slagnum

Also Aftershock isn't a thing anymore it was removed

okay this is peak wiki trivi

[deft yew]

Speentbubble

[sleek turret]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-funny-hood-just-let-it-go-bruh-its-over-gif-2300031300461303277

[drowsy plank]

you could probably just fuse slag magnum with whatever the fuck is going on with mineral mortar

they're both nothing weapons

[half imp]

Unfortunately some devs are attached to mineral mortar

[drowsy plank]

oh wait right mortar got reworked didnt it

[half imp]

it did yeah

[drowsy plank]

lmao

[golden sonnet]

This is the best description of earth elemental

[sleek turret]

It's either that gif or those inspirational sometimes letting go is also love images

[craggy girder]

"lmao??"

[craggy girder]

YES!!!!!!!!

[vocal wedge]

What we really need is post-Moon Lord Desert content.

[craggy girder]

(i actually hate the desert, its just really funny to have everything there)

[tepid crown]

the desert is just the modern day jungle if you think about it

[crude geode]

Not even close

[glass arch]

we need more content but it cant go to the desert or the jungle

[vocal wedge]

Give Tundra stuff.

[craggy girder]

no the tundra is a fat fucking chud and it gets nothing

it will get elumphant and that is it

[crude geode]

You’re a fat fucking chud

[craggy girder]

i have a pretty decent joke but it doesnt work in this enviroment so i will just explode

[crude geode]

Good

Anyways yeah it’s drops are really just nothing burger for two classes that already get a ton of stuff

[glass arch]

its drops are nothingburger its design is nothingburger its behavior is nothingburger its lore is also kinda nothingburger i cannot lie

[drowsy plank]

but guys what if we just completely rework everything about it from the ground up to the point that it's a completely different thing entirely! wouldnt it be good then? 🥺

[craggy girder]

the builder of the ship of theseus is a bad boatsmith

[deft yew]

Instead of whatever it previously did, now it. Shoots a projectile that explodes

Aside from looking nicer that is literally all it does

It is also the only reason Calamity adds recipes for Rocket I and II

[drowsy plank]

right

i think i confused it with

some weapon that used ore for ammo

because yknow

mineral mortar

that was probably from another mod like thorium or something

[deft yew]

Yknow what

[half imp]

Flak Toxicannon

[deft yew]

Ah, right

[half imp]

I wanted to make mineral mortar into a sandgun upgrade but I was vetoed :(

[deft yew]

Flaks could also just consume some other ammo or none at all if they wanted to

[drowsy plank]

we already have a sandgun upgrade anyway

[deft yew]

Ball Of Sludge doesn’t seem like it was made with a rocket

[dense locust]

sandblaster is a sandgun upgrade in name only

[half imp]

Sandblaster is also going to die

[drowsy plank]

funny

[half imp]

just like almost everything GSS

[deft yew]

Good

[drowsy plank]

is the whole GSS suite gonna go

[dense locust]

clearly the solution is to just hyperbuff astral sand to make sandgun hardmode viable

[drowsy plank]

good

[craggy girder]

YAAAAAY

[half imp]

This was actually the intent of it I just didn't buff it enough

[craggy girder]

in this household gss is gauss #draedonisawesome #tenbilliontodraedon

[drowsy plank]

when are we getting the hallowed sand buff

[craggy girder]

rainbow gun trail :)

[half imp]

It already has a buff in vanilla

so never

(same buff as evil sands..)

[dense locust]

welcome back pearlwood bow

[deft yew]

Ten billion to FromSoftware, actually, because Draedon just copied Armored Core’s homework

[craggy girder]

which parts

[drowsy plank]

okay yeah but pearlsand is actually hardmode locked unlike ebon and crimsand

you could do something with that

idk

[craggy girder]

bc i know armored core as "we gonna kill them civilians. also. robots"

[deft yew]

Like half(?) of the new arsenal weapons are directly from AC6

[craggy girder]

i dont think i ve seen youtuber play that

so ill Trust you

[deft yew]

PLAY ARMORED CORE 6!!!!!

[drowsy plank]

you see the solution to fix calamity is to borrow ideas from good games instead of bad ones-

[craggy girder]

does it cost money

[craggy girder]

I Am A Mosaic Of All Before Me

most times when ppl suggest a game to me, my first question is "does it cost money" and if so the answer is very likely no

[deft yew]

Metal Gear Rising Revengeance is reportedly a good game. Your point?

[drowsy plank]

this is a joke because i dont think MGR:R is a bad game but calamity murasama sure was a bad implementation

[craggy girder]

guys. murasama rework idea.

art attack

thats it. thats the rework. you just scribble your mouse really hard on the enemy and it dies

[drowsy plank]

also this is me calling borderlands bad because at this point i played basically the whole series with a friend and my general opinion on the whole series was "inoffensive"

[deft yew]

What about uhh Warframe

Or Ultrakill

Or Signalis

[drowsy plank]

if my opinion of ur entire franchise is "it sure exists" then i think you did something wrong

[craggy girder]

i mean i take that as a passing grade

if you cannot name a serious major issue with the game and can just play it, then id say the gamedev has at least done well

"it sure exists" is better than "this sucks"

[deft yew]

I would rather beat an utterly mid game once than beat Everdark Libra once

[drowsy plank]

oh well no i can name several actual literal bugs with borderlands 3 which never got fixed, but the other two were just kind of mindnumbing

[craggy girder]

mm

tbh the game costs money so

[deft yew]

How about the entire forbidden fragment weapon set goes too

[drowsy plank]

like i think them being boring is an issue

[deft yew]

Does anyone care much

[drowsy plank]

[craggy girder]

well. half true. i got borderlands 2 for free a bit back but i heard it was spyware so

[craggy girder]

kill the desert

[deft yew]

I’ll sugg this later

[craggy girder]

just make the top of it the entrance to the sunken sea

all water

[drowsy plank]

is it because of denuvo

it was proly denuvo

[craggy girder]

i have. no clue

i heard "free game", ""bought"" it, and just never downloaded it

[drowsy plank]

denuvo sure does suck but as much as people cry about it being spyware i think it is just shitty practice, and im sure eventually it could be used for something malicious, but i dont think ive ever actually seen evidence of that. not that kernel level software is ever actually trustworthy

[fossil finch]

That's an insanely funny suggestion

[elder moon]

are we cooking

[drowsy plank]

i think we should remove grape beer sorgy

[fossil finch]

They should remove marksman rounds too #controversisl

[elder moon]

whaat

[fossil finch]

#notsorry #ultrakillfansdidntdeserveit

[drowsy plank]

i honestly wouldn't care, you have to swap weapons to even use them, so the only time i ever saw people using them was when you could like three shot scal with tyranny's end coins

the individual guns are fine tho

it's a fine gimmick

[fossil finch]

#letweapongimmicksbeweapongimmicks

[fossil finch]

Yeah i mean marskman cuz they're dumb

[elder moon]

it is a bit broken

[drowsy plank]

i wont lie and say that marksman rounds has zero possibility for interesting design but right now they're just sort of... nothing

[fossil finch]

i just think It's like you should not listen to people who want to use this weapon forever

Marksman rounds r spiritually making crack shot colt a legendary

[glass arch]

marksman rounds suffer from aforementioned needing to swap weapons to use them and also just usually dont provide enough benefit to be worth it

[fossil finch]

It's the same thing but slightly different in presentation

people want to use cool weapon FOREVER because it's cool so u dig in and add a way to do that. When really you should just have more cool weapons.

[elder moon]

that's a pretty good point

[drowsy plank]

at least cal is trying to do that but yeah i agree it do kinda be like that rn

[elder moon]

part of the fun of a run is having to change your playstyle around what kind of weapons you're offered

[drowsy plank]

doesnt help that in vanilla ranged puts a lot of the weapon gimmick into the ammuntion anyway

but it makes sense why calamity has been doing so many ammoless ranged weapons recently tbqh

[elder moon]

yeah that and so many musket ball converters that are almost always better than using any other ammo

[dense locust]

I mean

[elder moon]

and I don't mind it

[dense locust]

thats only true for certain weapons

sometimes the convert just sucks

[elder moon]

I'm like 1/3 through my run so I'll learn which ones are and aren't good

[drowsy plank]

marksman rounds will prolly never die at this point because there isn't really like. an actually good reason to remove them either. like we can all say clutter and letting weapons keep their gimmicks but pandora's box has already kinda been opened for them, even if i think reworking marksman to do Literally Anything Else would be feasible, people would prolly get angry (and arguably justifably so considering calamity already gave the item to them) and for what? at this point you just gotta make sure not to do this again with another gimmick weapon if it is applicable

[elder moon]

yeah I wouldn't do it again because it does diminish the value of the mechanic on the few guns that have it built in

but it is fun so

as for grape beer I literally just got it so I'm interested to see what it's good with but just off of the reading the description it doesn't make me super excited to use going forward

[drowsy plank]

anyway like yeah, mechanically i understand the logic behind grape beer targeting coins when using marksman rounds or converts but grape beer is still just

such an item

[drowsy plank]

grape beer is incredibly stupid on a handful of items where the homing probably applies to things it shouldnt

for example; the trails left by contagion

[elder moon]

okay you just gave me a good idea

corroded caustibow

[drowsy plank]

true

[novel belfry]

i have a crackpot idea lads
post-ml crackshot variant

[drowsy plank]

lmao

[karmic bridge]

I thought they were like changing grape beer to be similar to warbanner anyways

[keen zodiac]

whuh

[tepid crown]

not exactly

just that being closer reduces the penalty

[karmic bridge]

💥

[elder moon]

oh cool

[craggy girder]

this is actually a funny concept and its so niche its brilliant

[oblique birch]

Point Blank never left

[half imp]

as well as making the penalty worse in general

No more ignoring it by building non crit

[grim tusk]

i have an even better idea: Accessory that allows you to throw coins

[grim tusk]

yep, people will riot considering it was only added due to people suggesting it a lot

[glass arch]

gulp

[drowsy plank]

this time for sure

[limber drift]

Has this been suggested a lot

[drowsy plank]

at least a couple times i think

[indigo yacht]

👀

[keen zodiac]

it used to be a feature

[limber drift]

Oh ok

[tame vigil]

will not happen

[vocal wedge]

Better idea: Make a second version of every Vanilla Thrower weapon that is Rogue and have them be a 50/50 of which it will be.
I see no downside, hire me.

[tame vigil]

old cal where every boomerang had a melee/rogue variant...

what would galaxy smasher's stealth strike even be lol

[glass arch]

it just didnt have one

[vocal wedge]

What do you MEAN you actually tried that!?

[tame vigil]

i know i'm talking about if it was still around

[glass arch]

ah

bigger hammer

[tame vigil]

yeah it was a thing for a good while

every boomerang could be crafted to swap between a melee/rogue variant

[vocal wedge]

Oh God. I think I remember that.

[glass arch]

im remembering correctly there wasnt a way to swap between them though i could be misremembering

[tame vigil]

you crafted them into each other

[limber drift]

Okay If it’ll not happen I’ll delete the suggestion

[lucid marsh]

Boomerangs should have stayed entirely melee or been entirely rogue, I will die on this hill

[fleet grotto]

you skip the throws required to have the big special effect

[polar bison]

I think the boomerangs that are crated from vanilla boomerangs should retain being melee but otherwise I see no issue with the other boomerangs being rogue

Now luckily no roguerangs use vanilla boomerangs anymore so it’s not an issue

[limber drift]

Boomerangs being melee in the first place is kinda weird

[lucid marsh]

Boomerangs are melee because no one outside of relogic seems to remember how utter ass the thrower class was

[limber drift]

I meant also like originally boomerangs being melee over even ranged is really weird

[lucid marsh]

I guess yeah that's also kinda weird

[limber drift]

I guess maybe in Terraria “melee” weapons are ones which are the thing that hits the targets themselves over firing a different object, so kind of boomerangs kinda fit but it is weird

[lucid marsh]

Historically I'm pretty sure every weapon meant to be thrown was also meant to be usable as a handheld weapon up close

So really... Melee and rogue should be combined into one class

Or rogue should be a subclass of melee

[limber drift]

Terraria should actually remove all classes

[keen zodiac]

doze speech bubble

[half imp]

DID I HEAR ROOTS

[north oracle]

no doze

[fossil finch]

Rogue should be ranger weapons

Some king of fables

It could also be mage weapons

Plasma rod has a stealth strike technically

[limber drift]

Rogue honestly becoming a ranger sub-class probably makes the most sense

[lucid marsh]

All other ranger weapons use a weapon to launch a separate projectile object

Melee weapons are themselves the thing that does the damage, and may also launch an optional magical projectile which lacks physical substance or launch themselves. Either way, they consume no ammo

You can split all rogue weapons into one of these categories based on what they do

[novel belfry]

for me stealth is the defining part of rogue to me. that is also why i cannot wait for when stealth becomes an inherent part of the weapons and not an armor set bonus-only mechanic

[indigo yacht]

👀

[limber drift]

Also why is the slick cane a rogue thing at all

You literally use it like a melee weapon

[indigo yacht]

that's like 50% of ranger nowaways

hellborn is an upgrade to sahara slicers #staywoke

[limber drift]

Ranger becoming more melee than melee is funny

[lavish yoke]

Remove grape beer

[lucid marsh]

Stealth is stupid imo

It has nothing to do with actual stealth

I know it's getting changed to focus but like

It's still stupid. It would make more sense as a mage thing

Since mage already pauses to recharge if you don't use potions

[keen zodiac]

mage already has its unique mechanic

[lucid marsh]

It could be better

I would prefer them to have not spent what I can only assume to have been thousands of hours of combined dev time making a new class instead of improving the existing ones

[glass arch]

trying to hard define terraria classes... gulp

[indigo yacht]

‼️

[glass arch]

even in vanilla the distinction between classes is pitiful at best, its entirely a vibes thing with no rules

[craggy girder]

entropic claymore is actually a summoner weapon

galaxia is a mage weapon

[glass arch]

class reforges arent even a hard rule for it anymore because ale tosser

[limber drift]

Whips already used melee reforges so it hasn’t been a fully set in stone rule for a while

[craggy girder]

have yall heard of that one yharon drop :D

[limber drift]

It is funny how one of yharon’s melee drops functions like a mage weapon, and one of his rogue drops functions like a melee weapon

[keen zodiac]

and his mage drop functions like his melee drop

[worthy fractal]

burning sky mage weapon

[craggy girder]

wrong again, burning sky is a Druid weapon

[worthy fractal]

typhons greed i summoner i guess?

[craggy girder]

typhons greed is summone yar

[worthy fractal]

volterion ranger

[lucid marsh]

I kinda want to make a suggestion to re-tier all the Wulfrum content to early hardmode (immediately after WoF, before any bosses or mining)

It would make for more interesting lore for rebels to make decently strong machines like that, and mechanically a lot of utility provided by wulfrum would be useful around there

Especially for the pirate invasion and buffed goblin invasion, and for dealing with cave enemies via decent knockback, assuming the stats were all scaled up

[glass arch]

waiter waiter more early hardmode content

[worthy lintel]

holy shit 35 cakes

(also wulfr*m stuff was tailored for pre-boss so you'd have stuff like the scaffholding and grappling hook being completely useless)

[tiny minnow]

Though there should be Hardmode Wulfrum enemies.
(Apparently Wulfrum is in my phone’s autocomplete)

[small bramble]

earth elemental slander my favorite 😋

destroy that fraud

[golden sonnet]

KILL

[fleet grotto]

it could use tungsten instead

[worthy lintel]

we should be able to mix tungsten and wulfrum together to obtain tungsten 3

[half imp]

This would break the entire design of all of the wulfrum gear

All of the wulfrum weapons are designed to aid a class in something that it might struggle with early game

• Screwdriver helps melee with range
• Blunderbuss helps ranger with maintaining ammo
• Prosthesis helps mage with Mana maintenance
• Controller helps summoner with survivability
• Knife helps rogue with stealth generation

Scaffolding Kit, Acrobatics Pack also make little sense being later on

[plush flame]

treasure pinger

[half imp]

Yup that too

[plush flame]

treasure pinger is like the most earlygame item ever

[half imp]

In fact I don't think there's a single wulfrum item that really would not be worse at any other tier

I guess Rover Drive would be fine re tiered with stat adjustments

but yeah, no suggestions to retier wulfrum would probably ever pass in dev because

• way too much work for not enough benefit
• Wulfrum items are a large distinct part of Calamity brand identity and moving them to not be the first calamity content you see would just be sabotaging that dramatically

[errant wren]

solution: start the game in hardmode

[humble scarab]

yea, retiering wulfrum is horrible idea

[vocal wedge]

Horrible you say?

[errant wren]

horrible would be if we did make hardmode wulfrum content and it wasn't interesting

[novel belfry]

okay that is a crackpot idea even i would never entertain

[polar bison]

Early hardmode is also just so bloated

And like it’s a point in progress that definitely needs a lot of stuff there yeah but at the same time that’s just

Not a good idea

I could hear the arguement for a Wulfrum upgrade but Arsenal equipment kinda fills that niche

[craggy girder]

have wulfrum port into arsenal tech :D

this would be great because mechanical stuff and would Not confuse more ppl on draedon being not at all related to wulfrum

[drowsy plank]

for sure

actually why dont we move more stuff out of early hardmode imo

[craggy girder]

i mean thats kinda alr happening

giant clam pt2 is not real anymore isnt it

[potent perch]

theres ideas I have I want to show but since they are large idk what to do to showcase my ideas

most of them are like revamp concepts to theming if bosses ig but they are too grand

But I still want to show them

[drowsy plank]

yes those are too grand

you can post them here in discussion but you can't make suggestions like that

suggestions is for fixing issues with the mod that don't fall under the umbrella of bugs

they're not for ideasguying, to put it bluntly
but there's nothing stopping you from just talking about said ideas here

it's just that if you wanted to have those ideas exist, you'd probably have more luck just making an add-on or something of the likes

[potent perch]

I want an outlet to express them and I want to know how it compares to the roadmap

[indigo yacht]

I'm not sure there's much of a roadmap to compare it to

[keen zodiac]

there is no roadmap

the order of future updates depends on what the devs feel like working on

[drowsy plank]

yeah

the volunteer project when people volunteer to work on things voluntarily (you can't tell them what to do)

[errant wren]

what if i say "please" very nicely

[lavish yoke]

Worst post ever

😭😭😭😭😭

[indigo yacht]

don't punch down on suggestions for no reason

[craggy girder]

idk man this is a pretty peak suggestion

[half imp]

I don't like it but I have no actual reason to not like it

[indigo yacht]

it removes one of the only features making the gimmick interesting

"interesting"

[indigo yacht]

that being you have to aim for something that's decidedly not the boss

[tiny minnow]

What if it only aims for the coin and then continues in that projectory?

[plush flame]

thatd be fun but i think people would get super pissed nvm thats an amazing bonus sugg

[craggy girder]

isnt the idea that you fling the coin, the bullet heatseeks into it, and then the ricoshot also experiences homing or

[karmic bridge]

🔥

[crude geode]

Good

[elder moon]

yes

[craggy girder]

that sounds quite overpowered but its also so niche

[elder moon]

yeah it would be pretty busted I agree

[craggy girder]

actually

wait a minute

all coinstrikes are crits

like 100% of the time

[elder moon]

at the same time though I can't use the two items together and I'd like to be able to

[craggy girder]

which is majorly reduced

so the damage is just killed entirely

[elder moon]

oh wait I didn't think about that

that would probably balance it out then

[indigo yacht]

it would just make it mindless and lame

[golden sonnet]

crits are still better than non crits even with grape beer

no?

[elder moon]

true

[elder moon]

well you'd get a pretty big damage penalty so if you want to do it beerless you still can and the skill ceiling is untouched

it's just specifically the ricoshot missing that's annoying anyway which doesn't have much to do with your skill

[indigo yacht]

yes exactly mindless and lame

you don't need to aim and the damage is a lot worse

[elder moon]

okay but once again the ricoshot missing is out of your control

sometimes

obviously if you miss the coins you can say skill issue

I would be fine with it if it didn't home onto the coins but the bullet after homed

but that sounds messy to implement and also doesn't make as much sense

[plush flame]

5/4 damage instead of 2/1

[craggy girder]

they're way weaker but yeah

isnt it like 1.15x damage instead of 2x

[craggy girder]

thus is the nature of grape beer. it fits well

i dont see why a boss summon needs to do this

the boss itself (or enemies in general) should just have better indication

[vocal wedge]

Where else could you put such an indication?

[tepid crown]

first of all, this would just discourage weapons being used on certain bosses (which is not the point of weapon resistances) and also

holy moly some of these lists are

FUCKING LONG

[limber drift]

It doesn’t have to be boss summons just something to identify this would work as well, maybe like the weapon’s tooltip while the boss summon is in the inventory

[craggy girder]

if the debuff is being resisted, have it be grayed out, and if its being overly effective, have it have a bolder color

[vocal wedge]

That's actually already indicated in the Bestiary.

[craggy girder]

since im like 55% sure debuffs dont share a tick timer

[tepid crown]

the quantum cooling cell would have a list so fucking long i dont think it would fit on screen

[craggy girder]

oh is it

[craggy girder]

it could be if you hover over the icon

[tepid crown]

we arent talking about debuffs

we are talking about individual weapons

[craggy girder]

oooooh. my bad

still, point stands

if the damage is lesser, grey it, if its major, bolden it

also for the exo mechs, you could show the resistances under the boss selectors themselves instead of on the cell

[limber drift]

Obviously listing every single weapon they resist would be stupid, but if they list all those which deal reduced damage that are currently in any player’s inventory it could help make it clear why stuff deals less damage against a boss

[craggy girder]

this IS a lot.

wait hunters dont have any resistances lol??

[polar bison]

Maybe have it so that if you have a boss summon in your inventory the tooltips of the weapons nerfed by that boss are updated accordingly

And like for the exos at the codebreaker

[indigo yacht]

except it won't because it's almost never clear why an item performs better or worse on a boss

all that will change is people going to #help-advice-read-pins asking "is my game bugged? this weapon sucks but the boss doesn't have a resistance to it"

[polar bison]

I think the failure to communicate a weapon being nerfed against a boss is bad game design

The nerfs are incredibly important

[craggy girder]

could be a seperate item maybe??
"Right click this item then click a boss summoning item to see all items in your inventory that the summoned boss resists."

[polar bison]

But they need to be communicated to the player

[craggy girder]

its like. really pointless

but it works

[tepid crown]

meow

[indigo yacht]

i just think a weapon needing to be nerfed against a specific boss is in of itself bad design

because let's be real when was the last time resistance information was ACTUALLY useful to anyone here

probably not very recently

[craggy girder]

unavoidable i think

[gilded citrus]

Wasnt a sug like this already turned down months ago because it would discourage weapon use which resistances are not meant to do

[indigo yacht]

besides maybe the origin of this suggestion

[limber drift]

The issue is that like otherwise stuff like piercing weapons would shred worm bosses or be utterly useless outside of them if not for the resistances

[craggy girder]

the point of wep. resists is to shunt the dps down to match others

[indigo yacht]

that already happens even without resistances

[polar bison]

I beg to differ, worm bosses would be fucked without it

[craggy girder]

but why would you use the shunted weapon when you can use the better, unshunted weapon

[indigo yacht]

Solution: no more worm bosses 🔥

[limber drift]

? I meant resistances help to prevent it from happening

[tepid crown]

put better in quotations because theyre often similar or just in same cases worse

[craggy girder]

true. make thanatos into the world turtle

make him a wulfrum digging turtle

[tepid crown]

wave pounder needed its resistance to dog changed 4 times before it was actually worse than on tier options, let alone as a post provi weapon

[limber drift]

I get that certain weapons would end up becoming less likely to be used but entirely hiding resistances is objectively bad from a player’s perspective

[craggy girder]

its wave pounder though. who cares fair point

i feel that resistances in theory are good but in practice are bad

[indigo yacht]

can you elaborate on how it's "objectively bad from a player's perspective"

[limber drift]

If the player has no idea why their weapon is dealing less than expected it can feel unfun and like the game is just not being fair

[craggy girder]

like the idea that a weapon is balanced to be like its others is Good! however, you have to think of Every item on that tier and how exactly to make it Not just shred the thing

[indigo yacht]

do you have any examples of this

of a weapon being bad and causing the game to feel unfun/unfair

specifically because of resistances and not because of poor design or variance or other factors

[gilded citrus]

Only time i can think that is attempting to use weapon on worm boss and it not be as absurdly buster as anticipated
Which
Its a worm boss go grab anything else to obliterate it

[indigo yacht]

well poor design is a bit of a nebulous idea and arguably plays into resistances

[errant wren]

i had an idea about how to fix resistances, but i feel like if i shared it i would actually be exiled for the rest of time

[craggy girder]

im already exiled for a million years its okay

[indigo yacht]

2 million years now

[craggy girder]

personally i think that RDR is fine as long as its not set to a timer and its not as full halting.

your probably okay with your idea

[limber drift]

I don’t really have any specific examples from my very own experiences but like some resistances would definitely be very confusing for new players, such as the fact that for example astrum deus takes a measly 30% damage from stardust dragon staff, which could just feel bad especially since it would be used against them since its one of the most used minions on the tier deus is meant to be fought at, so not ever telling the player that it won’t deal full damage would just seem like it isn’t a good weapon

[craggy girder]

SDS is kinda just moving clingerstaff, which rends other worms apart

the damage may be a bit low yeah but its kinda needed

but then you can use cell staff and just win

[limber drift]

Resistances towards specific weapons are a necessary evil in balancing the game otherwise many weapons would annihilate specific bosses if left un-nerfed on the specific boss or being unusable on other fights if nerfed as a whole so nerfing them on specific bosses allows for them to be balanced as a whole

[craggy girder]

i think my issue with resistances is that they're too specific and not as precise as they should be

[errant wren]

ok so basically, gradual boss damage resistance per weapon that are currently resisted
i.e. worm bosses take full damage from a given piercing weapon but that damage starts to fall off in a way that more or less keeps killtime the same, but that dr only applies to said weapon

i accept my punishment

[tepid crown]

this is just rdr again

[indigo yacht]

dragon is mediocre on deus, but it also has a 50% damage reduction... how are you going to separate that from the boss resistance

[tepid crown]

you reinvented rdr

[craggy girder]

i love rdr*
*as long as its not gamehalting

[errant wren]

ah well

[indigo yacht]

let's not add rdr back it's such an unfun mechanic

i like being creative and increasing my damagae

[craggy girder]

i think infernum does something similar. not rdr but weapon resistance

piercing weapons do less damage the more they pierce im pretty sure

[indigo yacht]

rdr says fuck you and die be boring and balanced

[indigo yacht]

that's in basecal

that's pierce resistance

[craggy girder]

oh neat

[limber drift]

Thats a thing just in base terraria as well i thought

[craggy girder]

then yea do more that

[errant wren]

fuck it just change boss ai at this point

[indigo yacht]

remove worm bosses I'm telling you

[craggy girder]

guys. what if we made a new mod. and called it Calamity Mod

swag glasses

anyways yeah rdr is bad but i think its idea is good in theory

[errant wren]

and it would add a new class that's basically a thrower revival

[indigo yacht]

I don't

[craggy girder]

for like scal i think having reactive attack aggressiveness could be cool. where if you shred her, she gains a little damage resist but she also does her stuff faster

so if you shred her, you're also challenged by needing to dodge the higher aggression

to then shred her more

[crude geode]

I feel like weapon resistances are the opposite problem of RDR, where they’re fine in gameplay and healthy, but on paper it causes a visceral reaction

[craggy girder]

like putting more gameplay behind shredding instead of just cancelling it

[errant wren]

what if we gave just bosses rage and adrenaline

[craggy girder]

true?

[crude geode]

what if we stabbed you

[craggy girder]

no dont stab them they have great ideas

they're like my ideas so they're awesome

[errant wren]

thanks??

[crude geode]

That just makes me want to stab you too

[craggy girder]

nuh uh i have stabproof from stabfish.io

[crude geode]

Byeah weapon resistances are fine. On wiki it feels wrong to see but in gameplay it’s extremely healthy

[craggy girder]

yeuh

in theory they're evil, in praxis they're Fine

[golden sonnet]

"As they should" means nothing as you don't know how good a weapon is on a boss till you try it on them, I don't think it needs to be spelled out for the player

And telling them might make the player think it's bad against the boss then, when a lot of them are still the best option they jsut no longer kill in 30 seconds

[crude geode]

Yeah, it’s not to completely neuter the weapon, but so that bosses don’t instantly explode

[golden sonnet]

very rarely it is just to kill the weapon, but that's only for quite off tier things

[golden sonnet]

(I am talking about exactly wave pounder)

oh wait nvm, it's back to very solid again

: )

[limber drift]

I do think though that sometimes it can kind of be confusing to understand, and for example true melee weapons are resisted by All worm bosses (except The Devourer of Gods), Crabulon, Ravager, Ceaseless Void's Dark Energies, Brain of Cthulhu's Creepers, XF-09 Ares, which since its never explained to the player, while just to make sure they aren’t utterly broken, is important to note if for example you tested it on some target dummies to see which option between two were better for you, but the bosses end up taking reduced damage, And sometimes the resistance is so absurdly high such as how astrum deus takes only 25% damage from Plaguenades, which is never communicated to the player

[tame vigil]

also for the Deus v. Stardust Dragon example it was completely fine last patch but the resistance is somehow too much now despite nothing changing????

i still have no idea why that happened

like the 70% resist was absolutely warranted it killed Deus in like 20 seconds

[indigo yacht]

if i had to guess it would be equipment on tier getting rebalanced to be weaker

but i haven't checked

if the equipment got weaker then the summon would too by proxy

[tame vigil]

nothing got changed gearwise, afaik

[golden sonnet]

dummy testing never tells you useful damage info for bosses anyways though

[indigo yacht]

damn, yeah the only thing i can find is spooky wings not giving summon damage anymore

[drowsy plank]

@limber drift the fights shouldn't be taking longer than expected; if the boss has a resist to a weapon, it should make that weapon viable instead of overpowered. so that is a major inaccuracy. furthermore, all this is going to accomplish is making people avoid the weapon entirely even if it is perfectly viable on the boss. which is the point of resistances. make them viable instead of broken.

[indigo yacht]

a whole 5% less

corinth prime 🥹

[drowsy plank]

if a weapon is under or overperforming, then that should be an issue for #1178515062030348308, so i don't really feel like this should go to voting when it's portraying the situation incorrectly

[indigo yacht]

60% damage nerf and a 6 minute killtime is hilarious

slightly overzealous

[limber drift]

I’m moreso just saying how while I know it isn’t going to make a weapon bad just that it doesn’t annihilate the boss but like never telling players in game that their damage is being nerfed is an issue because it then is hiding sometimes drastic specific weapon nerfs that are only learnable from the wiki

[kind laurel]

Calamity after adding a thousand worm bosses and wondering why half of the weapons shred them

[limber drift]

I wasn’t trying to say it made weapons bad it just feels so weird that there is nothing in game to suggest this would be a thing that is in the mod and a lack of explaining these things can be confusing to players

[indigo yacht]

i still don't see how this is specifically a problem

[golden sonnet]

resists are a vanilla thing that is also not communicated there btw

[drowsy plank]

if this system is working as intended it shouldn't be confusing because it shouldn't be noticable

if you draw attention to it you are inverting the entire purpose of resists in the first place

[golden sonnet]

Shout out cultist having a resist against an entire class

[crude geode]

Cultist is truly the boss of all time

[drowsy plank]

he really is

[kind laurel]

Shout out to Cultist's entire gimmick being wrecked by homing weapons so they just made him resist every single one

[golden sonnet]

(tiny bit facetious but it literally takes 25% less damage from almost every summon)

[worthy lintel]

i think all bosses should take 25% less damage from summon weapons

[crude geode]

I think every enemy should take 25% less damage from summon weapons

[drowsy plank]

just hold a different class weapon then

[indigo yacht]

genius

[worthy lintel]

nah it means i would be interacting with summon*r

worse than dex users, atleast they play the game

[calm knot]

worse then whuh

[crude geode]

Something something whips were relogic giving up on making summoner interesting

[calm knot]

whips were an awesome idea i will take no such slander

[limber drift]

I do actually wonder if the resistance is applied before or after defence and if it causes armour penetration to be unaffected which I genuinely don’t know if it because it isn’t explained on the wiki when in the damage formula it is applied as far as i’m aware does because then if its done after defence then it would cause the boss’ defence from an attack to also be nerfed, which in turn would cause armour penetration to just blatently be less effective despite the point that it moreso causes a flat damage increase most of the time. I am genuinely asking

[indigo yacht]

after

i believe

[limber drift]

So then the boss’s defence and armour penetration would both be just randomly different since like for example plaguenades on astrum deus would need like 4x as much armour penetration than other weapons to deal more damage

[craggy girder]

see this is kinda my issue with resistances

why so specific. why not just make the boss resist the thing that makes that resisted item busted

so much words for "pls dont pierce weapon please"

[keen zodiac]

add global resistance to all piercing weapons for worm bosses

[glass arch]

because pierce resist is already a built in thing

[craggy girder]

yea i know

just do that for. all of them .

:)

[glass arch]

and also "just resist the thing that makes them broken" is what happens

[indigo yacht]

no, if it's applied after then ap doesn't do anything interesting

[glass arch]

the thing that makes the weapon broken is what gets the resist

[indigo yacht]

if it's applied before then it does

[glass arch]

you cant globalize it because weapons are often broken for very different reasons

[craggy girder]

actually yknow what bosses are too difficult to make. all weapons are now buttons that do 0.1% of a bosses health every 5 seconds

(satire)

[keen zodiac]

coldheart icicle

[craggy girder]

yea except global range

[keen zodiac]

coldheart icicle on a rope

[craggy girder]

RDR prime: 100% DR always but the boss is on a timer

basically the entire game is a desperation phase

[limber drift]

Wait are you saying the resistance is done after the rest of the damage equation and decrease for damage from defence because then it would cause armour penetration to be efrected

[half imp]

galileo icicle

[keen zodiac]

[half imp]

yes

resitance i think is later on?

DR is at least

[worthy lintel]

rdr that matches the boss's music like that one mod...

[craggy girder]

abt 10 minute fight and 2 minute postfight

for scal

[indigo yacht]

if dr was applied before then defense would be disproportionately massive and ap would be way stronger but it isn't so it's not

[limber drift]

Cos then if for example: an attack deals 30 damage, and the boss has 10 defence, but you have 5 armour penetration, so the atatck would deal 25 damage instead of just 20 without the penetration, but if the boss resists the weapon by 50%, and its applied after the rest of the calculation, the attack would deal ~12.5 damage with the penetration and 10 damage without it, causing the armour penetration to effectively only increase damage by function what normally would function as 2.5 defence (I know its decimals but you get what I mean)

It would just cause it to be very inconsistent since armour penetration is normally chosen as it effectively gives a flat damage increase by how much it penetrates

[worthy lintel]

i fucking hate the armor pen demon

colossal mistake of a stat

[indigo yacht]

so basically the increase granted by armor penetration is decreased the same amount as... the rest of your damage

I don't see how this is inconsistent at all

if dr were to be applied prior to defense then (assuming boss defense does -1 damage like in your example) you'd have 20 damage vs 25 compared to 5 damage vs 10 which is a 25% increase compared to a 50% increase

[potent perch]

also is the pyrmodrial wymr planned to have a rework of any kind becasue the attacks seem outdated to the current sprites design

[glass arch]

maybe

[limber drift]

Yeah but the thing with armour penetration and defence is that they are a flat damage increase and decrease across all weapons, and decreasing them multiplicatively without explaining that would be a confusing thing

[indigo yacht]

how do you measure that in game to notice it's being decreased

[vocal wedge]

I would be suprised if it was never touched.

And I think it is considered to be retiered.

[indigo yacht]

dummies don't work, do you plan to pause the game mid boss fight and start checking damage numbers

[potent perch]

i mean they resprited him

[glass arch]

that wasnt really a planned thing heart just did that

[indigo yacht]

primordial wyrm 💔

[potent perch]

what did heart do

[potent perch]

i find the name more fitting

[vocal wedge]

That.

The resprite.

[potent perch]

oh?

i thought they only did music

[vocal wedge]

?

[indigo yacht]

i dislike it

[potent perch]

i love it

[indigo yacht]

i think it should just oneshot you like dungeon guardian

[potent perch]

the namke "Adult eiolon wyrm"

[vocal wedge]

Wow, hating Silva's pet worm. Jerk.

[potent perch]

sounds kinda unserious

[indigo yacht]

because it would be way funnier

[vocal wedge]

It functionally does.

[indigo yacht]

nah explodes you

[potent perch]

i feel having jared at shadowspec tier is sick

[indigo yacht]

💥

[potent perch]

because theres still some natural predator still a threat to you

just there

chilling

[vocal wedge]

I'd hardly call that thing natural.

It's on steroids.

[potent perch]

exactly

thats whats cool about it

[vocal wedge]

You think steroids are cool?

[potent perch]

your godly weapons still rival that thing

no

and jared doesnt do sterioids

he does yharim stimulants

[vocal wedge]

By that point you're well beyond godly weaponry.

[indigo yacht]

God killing machine gun vs worm i found underwater who wins

[vocal wedge]

Yharim Stimulants are like, every steroid at once.

[limber drift]

I don’t know how you’d test it but like if a boss took half damage from your weapon, shark tooth necklace’s effect would go from +5 damage to only +2.5 which causes it to become far less effective while normally having a somewhat stronger effect, or like that one reforge that increase armour penetration by 2 instead being by 1, which is importsnt information

[potent perch]

thats why itsa so interesting in concept

a natural being

is still a threat to something with such power

[indigo yacht]

again, i need to point out that "far less effective" applies to EVERYTHING, not just armor penetration

[vocal wedge]

There are other things in Calamity that could be argued to be like that.

[indigo yacht]

so ap is unaffected in terms of effectiveness

[potent perch]

still this thing is different

[vocal wedge]

Just, you know, not implemented yet.

[kind laurel]

Primordial Wyrm is honestly one of my favourite bosses by concept by being Cal Dungeon guardian but you can actually fight it rather than hoiking around dealing 10dps and waiting for it to die

[potent perch]

aa lot of the powerful stuff are outright gods or assisted with these powers

not just a form of life

[indigo yacht]

if a boss has a 50% resistance to your weapon then the optimal equipment is the exact same as it would be if it didn't have the resistance

[potent perch]

also why is the abyss so tiny dawg

[vocal wedge]

Quite a few powerful beings are god killers.

[vocal wedge]

Gameplay constraints.

[potent perch]

how are they fitting him down there😭

[vocal wedge]

Really big doghouse.

[indigo yacht]

3d abyss

coming calamity 2016

[potent perch]

nah terrarian just stupid af

just go a bit more to the left

why is little terrarian so stubborn

to go past the world border bro

[kind laurel]

What if bosses just discovered the background and stood there for the entire fight

[vocal wedge]

There's a whole corpse of a god down there but you don't see it because you're not paying attention.

[potent perch]

a lot of the rework bosses do that in adfdon mods

[potent perch]

was

the wyrms ate it

[vocal wedge]

Slime God.

[potent perch]

how do you think jared became so big?

[vocal wedge]

No, she adopted the Wyrm. It's her friend now. Whether it likes it or not.

[potent perch]

still worm hungry

[vocal wedge]

Everyone knows the SQUID ate her corpse!

[potent perch]

worm must eat

its the way of the wyrm

[indigo yacht]

racial profiling

[limber drift]

It isn’t though because then all forms of damage increasing stuff would be increasing your damage by a smaller amount as a whole, while defensive gear doesn’t get weakened meaning that it could be smarter to go defensive

[indigo yacht]

ok but we're not talking about defensive builds and also it's always better to go defensive

there are almost no scenarios where offensive builds are superior

[craggy girder]

in what case ?

[indigo yacht]

we're comparing the effectiveness of ap to normal damage increases

[indigo yacht]

wdym

[craggy girder]

i dont know the context of this discussion but i know full offensive to shred bosses in like

half their intended time

[indigo yacht]

yeah if you're skilled enough to dodge everything consistently then go offensive if not defensive is usually better

or dodge stacking

[limber drift]

Also it would be very confusing in the few cases where a weapon would hypothetically deal less damage, like maybe for certain more gimicky weapons or piercing ones that have been decreased through piercing substantian than the boss’s defence by lets say 5 damage (eg boss defence is 30 while weapon deals 25 damage), but you have 20 armour penetration, but also the boss resists the weapon, only taking 2/3 damage. As a result then the first 5 armour penetration would be unnafected by the resistance, but then the remaining 15 would be decrease down to only increasing the damage to like 10 instead of 15, which would result in inconsistent effects of this system

[indigo yacht]

i apologize I cannot understand this example

[craggy girder]

worlds worst drawing. am i understanding resistances right?
we have the weapon on the left thats the average, and the weapon on the right thats outside the average in certain aspects but not everything
the resistance forces it to match the average as best as it can, bc otherwise it breaks a lotta shit ?

is this Correct

[vocal wedge]

I think that's the idea behind it.

[indigo yacht]

if the boss has 30 defense and your weapon deals 25 damage then it will only deal 10
with 20 ap then it'll deal 20
with 33% resistance and no ap then it'll only deal like 6.66 damage
with resistance and the ap it'll deal 13.33 damage

since dr applies after ap is equally affected

[limber drift]

I though boss defence decreased damage by 1 per def

[indigo yacht]

0.5

[limber drift]

Isn’t that how it works on enemies

[indigo yacht]

it's identical to classic mode player defense but doesn't scale by difficulty like the player

so each point of ap also only increases damage by 0.5

[indigo yacht]

oh also fun fact it rounds down because fuck you

stn is only a +2 damage increase not a +2.5 or +3

[limber drift]

Oh i actually didn’t know that
In that case a better way for me to show the idea is that
Attack deals 25 damage, boss has 60 def, player has 40 armour penetration and boss only takes 2/3 damage from weapon
The result would cause the first 10 armour penetration to be unaffected by the resistance as it would still result in one damage but like then the effect of the remaining 30 armour penetration would be nerfed down to only increase damage by 10 damage instead of the expected 15

Basically causing the resistance to cause the effects of armour penetration to become all inconsistent when an attack is normally fully resisted by defence

[indigo yacht]

so you're meaning to say that when the boss defense would reduce your damage to less than 1 all the ap required to get it over 1 again is unaffected by the resistance?

[limber drift]

Yes but then any more penetration would become less effective so it would be confusing that it becomes less effective to increase it after a certain point

[indigo yacht]

ok i see what you're saying but this literally never happens anywhere in the game where something is affected by a resistance

there is no instance of a boss with so much defense it renders a weapon that it's resistant to to be below 1 damage

furthermore, I don't see how this is confusing because how is anyone even noticing that? or getting that much ap in the first place

[limber drift]

There would probably end up some scenarios like maybe like blade staff afainst a high defence boss or something

[indigo yacht]

no bosses resist blade staff because it's bad

[limber drift]

But like there probably would be scenarios where it could occur

[indigo yacht]

there just wouldn't

[limber drift]

Also I guess summon tag damage would also have the same issue since its s flat increase and there could be scenarios where it could change it confusingly

[indigo yacht]

why would a weapon so bad that you need a lot of ap to even deal more than 1 damage have a boss resistance

exo mechs dont resist minishark

[limber drift]

Maybe a true melee weapon because they are all resisted by like almost every worm boss and several others universally

Also with piercing weapons since they get worse every consecutive pierces

[indigo yacht]

I'm just going to take a step back and note again that cultist has a universal 25% resistance to every homing projectile but I've never seen anyone complain about it being confusing

[limber drift]

I don’t know anymore I’m just kinda lost like probably there won’t be many times where people are confused by a resistance but like never explaining how this works in game and only partially explaining when one is present only on the wiki especially when the difference it could be having could even be like halfing your damage output is confusing, especially due to how common it is for especially stuff like true melee weapons. Calamity is already so heavy on its wiki usage that never showing signs that this is a thing, and how it would impact how flat increaes to damage like armour penetration and summon tag damage whereas normally those will remain consistent between weapons is just something that I feel having something in game would just make the game more accessible without the wiki. But idk

[lucid marsh]

Damage resistances are kinda lame and confusing

Vanilla doesn't have them as far as I know

[indigo yacht]

👀

this is vanilla

additionally eow has like 80% resistance to explosions on expert+