suggestions-discussion

[drowsy plank]

https://klipy.com/gifs/its-bleak-bleak-gif

[inland saddle]

We’ll know in about 2 hours

https://youtu.be/LAajRslUjGY?si=RCDtjMtYwUrLCrt9

[drowsy plank]

makes sense
i saw stuff that was from yesterday not posted before realizing it hadn't been 24 hours, checked the status light and saw it was offline and just assumed

[inland saddle]

I should really just change my test command to work in this channel

Why haven’t I done that yet

[mossy pelican]

What has graced my screen

[inland saddle]

Yeah idk why the status light just stopped being reliable one day

[drowsy plank]

wack

[tepid crown]

pisscord probably

[inland saddle]

I mean I didn’t change anything

So I think that’s the only explanation

[clear estuary]

ykw imma learn how to make terraria mods and turns this into a calamity addon

[drowsy plank]

ok

[vocal wedge]

The ending.

[drowsy plank]

it's been so long since ive done a cal run i feel like i ought to do one again sometime soon, but i have so many things to do before i could even consider that that at this rate im probably going to have to wait until the next update drops to have a good excuse to play it lmao

back during the outage i had like 3 suggestion ideas and i can remember

none of them

so i have 0 suggestions to make

lmao

[clear estuary]

don't forget to use my Calamity boulders addon in 14 years

Calamitas still yapping to the cat for like half an hour btw

[drowsy plank]

if it isn't topical would be preferred you just go to #calamity-mod-talk

[clear estuary]

oh ye mb

[glass arch]

i can make a suggestion

go my wheel of weapons find me something to kill

[drowsy plank]

awesome

[tame vigil]

she just like me fr

[indigo yacht]

normal

[novel belfry]

i cant suggest this but i would personally like if one fromsoft regular weapon in calamity was reworked to act like its namesake

storm ruler

[keen zodiac]

bot alive 🎉

[frail mantle]

many such cases

[glass arch]

yeah i forgot

[karmic bridge]

Greasy Pete

[mossy pelican]

Greasy pete and sleazy joe

[echo leaf]

no i think sussy scrap should be kept the same

it’s an adequate punishment for wanting to use shpc

[fossil finch]

could be true

[grave zinc]

@novel belfry - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Replace the Nebulash in the Crescent Moon's recipe with a Blue Moon]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[tame vigil]

unsure why that even got to voting

[vocal wedge]

Once in a blue moon occurence.

[quaint carbon]

I just realized how funny the Yharon audio cue is cuz it’s akin to shouting your attack before executing it in anime

Yharon is throwing

[vocal wedge]

Nah, they removed that class.

[whole tundra]

No he's just inhaling large amounts of air to have his super powerful explosive fart that makes him dash forward

[quaint carbon]

bowser gif

[whole tundra]

No he stands till

Unless they give Bowser a proper dash attack in Smash, I won't believe it

[worthy fractal]

didnt that literally only get added in 2.1

anyways good suggestion blue moon makes way more sense

[drowsy plank]

@tame vigil i know MPG pings you about photosenstivity stuff usually, so i thought id ask, for purely "tone down the visuals" stuff like this; #suggestions-posting message , should i be redirecting people to #1052323733961977947? i feel like it is much faster and these are far smaller issues that probably don't need public suggestions to vote on them, so it feels like that would be more appropriate, but i really have no idea

idk who else i should be asking about this if someone else would be more appropriate

[tame vigil]

probably a question to put in #dev-mod-corner rather than just pinging me specifically but that seems more reasonable to me

[drowsy plank]

ah

that is fair

@potent perch this should go in #1052323733961977947 as a visual oversight; it would be far faster

[vocal wedge]

I'm not sure if that really fits the criteria for a suggestion. Not sure if there's even a precedent.

[indigo yacht]

huh

i can't imagine this one would be valid but it doesn't break any rules

[languid musk]

pretty much my thought process as well, no harm in asking

I read through the rules and there wasn't anything against the sort

[indigo yacht]

honestly it would probably be really easy to just make the mod yourself

[languid musk]

and if it is rule-breaking, then a precedent has to be set somehow

[indigo yacht]

just copy and paste the relevant tiles from the cal github and remove any mod references

[vocal wedge]

I mean you are fundamentally asking for them to make another mod.

[lucid marsh]

This gave me an idea: I think it would be cool if the roar itself was an attack, like a shockwave that gives you a debuff if you're too close to it

[languid musk]

I'm sure I could figure it out for personal use, but it's the calamity team's assets

[lucid marsh]

So then the debuff being followed up by a dash attack would make sense

[languid musk]

so if they could publish it I'm sure it'd be popular

[indigo yacht]

you could ask for permission but you're right that it might get complicated depending on how credits are supposed to work

[languid musk]

yes and no? idk how calamity is structured but I can't imagine it being a lot of work

[vocal wedge]

It's still asking for a new mod to be made.

[indigo yacht]

@hollow shell are you the person to ask about this or is that someone else

[languid musk]

I don't want to be presumptuous though, it's a suggestion and I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask

[indigo yacht]

it's not hard to make a mod

I don't really see the issue regarding that specifically

the only issue i see is that the suggestions forums are probably not supposed to be used this way but there's nothing to say that in the rules

[languid musk]

yeah and I couldn't see any other channels where I could ask for this either

[craggy girder]

this is like

a very interesting suggestion

[polar bison]

I'm sure it's possible but Idk if it's something caldev... wants to do?

It would set a really weird precedent

[craggy girder]

i think the general concept is that suggestions are problems you have directly with calamity mod to be fixed within calamity mod

[polar bison]

Because if lab turrets get their own mod then like

[craggy girder]

like yeah if i said "donor items should be a seperate mod" that is a good idea but im not even sure if its allowed

[polar bison]

Why shouldn't say murasama or other fan favorite items get their own

Give me like 2 hours hold on I'll figure something out

[languid musk]

I understand what you mean, I'm new here and idk how sensitive governance is but it's just something I'd like to see

[indigo yacht]

i think that's not legal anyways

[craggy girder]

yea

[polar bison]

Donor items have no legal protections

Or they do but like

Not to that extent

[plush flame]

they have moral protections at the very least

[polar bison]

^

It's genuinely just a moral code

The law doesn't prevent them from being changed without their donors permission

[indigo yacht]

you read the rules that's like 200 steps ahead of 99% of people who use this channel

[polar bison]

It's just a thing out of respect for the donor

[indigo yacht]

I've definitely heard cal devs saying they can't make sweeping changes to donor items because it violates the law before

[languid musk]

I knew it was going to be a bit of a strange request so I wanted to check for precedent anyways

[indigo yacht]

they could just be exaggerating but they're developers who i would expect to have a general understanding at least

[vocal wedge]

I'd assume it's a case of they did pay for it so if they say, removed it that could be argued as scamming.

[craggy girder]

i believe the principle is that they paid to have their stuff in Calamity Mod Proper

so moving it without warning to Donor Mod Calamity would be bad

[potent perch]

Wait sre the turrets donor items

[vocal wedge]

No.

[languid musk]

are donor items a controversial topic here? I didn't think they really impeded my Calamity playthrough

[craggy girder]

me personally i find them rather obstructive in their current state

mainly because they're either meta defining or just not worth the money invested/dev time used

[vocal wedge]

They're annoying to change.
And are in a category of items that have caused misconceptions about the plot to spread.

[languid musk]

imo vanity items are whatever, I trash most of them but I understand why they're here

as for meta defining, that is a balance issue and not a little donor item tag issue no?

[vocal wedge]

Can't change the balancing without permission I think.

[languid musk]

or are rebalancing donor items difficult?

[languid musk]

that would be a problem yeah

[rancid lotus]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dRB4W_bVX7qj_wAwi-w2E6MTitvIpg0xafeAvKDsLyU/
Suggestion Rules Doc.
Also you can't really make suggestions on anything happening to Donors without the Donor's permission.

[vocal wedge]

And if a donor item is really outdated it can't be changed without permission either.

[potent perch]

A few are older ones so they are kind of out of place with calamity’s current spriting and designs but they should stay as an archive of the donor

[vocal wedge]

I didn't say to remove them, that would cause way bigger issues.

[potent perch]

And them staying isn’t really and issue

[languid musk]

I read this document yeah, like I mentioned there's nothing in there that either bans my suggestion or provides a better avenue to express it

so I sent it here

[vocal wedge]

Also, most of the donor items are concentrated at certain late game points which heavily contributes to bloat around there.

[indigo yacht]

a lot of them are complete messes but the main issue is just that they get in the way of development since the devs can't change them without getting permission from the donor which takes time and complicates things especially when donors don't want a change or if they just. cant find the donor anymore

the 18 post dog donor weapons

[vocal wedge]

Probably one of the reasons they no longer accept them.

[indigo yacht]

the devs still have a backlog of donor items they need to add from like 4 years ago or something

[potent perch]

I feel having those weapons being at the end of progression is a neat thing as a lot of the donor weapons are older and putting it’s obtainment at endgame makes it not affect the rest of the game as much

[languid musk]

my very uninvolved opinion would be that you shouldn't need the donor's permission to rebalance or to update the image, but they should stay dedicated to the original donor

[indigo yacht]

donor items weren't allowed to be added there that's why they're all at post dog
that was the latest they could be added

[vocal wedge]

Yes, but they're not post-game, where it wouldn't really matter, they're all bunches up with DoG.

[languid musk]

as long as a good faith attempt is made to keep them viable I don't see the issue with shuffling some numbers around

[glass arch]

rebalancing is allowed as long as it doesnt compromise the intended functionality the donor wanted

[vocal wedge]

I would bet a lot there would be very furious donors.

[indigo yacht]

balance is fine as long as the items function doesn't change

[potent perch]

still a decent amount are shadowspec tier

[glass arch]

no

thats not donor content

[indigo yacht]

only dev items are shadowspec

[potent perch]

OH

I mixed it up mb

Oh my god I’m an idiot

[languid musk]

can't please everyone, it's not like having meta defining items isn't affecting others as well

[glass arch]

its dedicated but not donor, dev items are WAY easier to work with because a lot of them are still around in some form

[indigo yacht]

i know that some of the devs were considering letting donor items be moved to later in the game just to help debloat post dog lol

i think it was just speculation thouhj

[potent perch]

Also whats the issue with “bloat” I find it nice having many options to choose from

[kind laurel]

Might as well make a donator shadowspec post-DoG considering half of them are already there

[glass arch]

i.e. if the donor wanted it to be a slow and hard hitting weapon the devs wouldnt rebalance it to be super quick and soft hitting

[potent perch]

give criticism

[languid musk]

imo this is a good requirement as well

[vocal wedge]

Too many options means that a lot of interesting choices are buried in favour of the meta.

[languid musk]

keep the spirit and credits of the item

[tepid crown]

balancing can be changed thatd be fucking stupid its more that due to moral reasons devs dont want to rework stuff without permission

[languid musk]

rebalance them to fit in better with progression

[indigo yacht]

well think about it this way: would you rather there be like 50 items post dog and 3 post yharon or 25 post dog and 25 post yharon

[potent perch]

Also since when was there a meta

[vocal wedge]

Since always.

[glass arch]

since stats have existed

[tepid crown]

what

do you know what meta means

[potent perch]

I know it exists

[kind laurel]

If something exists there is a meta

[potent perch]

I didn’t know it was that prevalent

[glass arch]

and resprites also go through the donor

[potent perch]

in Conakry

As most things in both vanilla and calamity are adaptive and vary

[kind laurel]

If you think about it even cavemen had a "meta" for where to stay and all that

[potent perch]

as many things can be changed

[languid musk]

for context, how much money did donor items cost?

[glass arch]

there are Many people that show up in cmt and harp asking what the best weapon is for x boss

[indigo yacht]

there's like two different versions of the meta in cal, the fun one and the real one
the fun one is a bunch of super op weapons and the real meta is just one item that's preboss that somehow lets you be completely invulnerable and you use it for the entire game which is really boring

[vocal wedge]

'Why would I use some awesome DoG drop with cool effects instead of donor weapon #16 which is way stronger?'
That's how a lot of people think.

[indigo yacht]

$50 iirc

[tepid crown]

yea

[potent perch]

THATS what I mean it makes no sense and

[languid musk]

oh, for $50 I would not feel any obgliation ngl

[tepid crown]

it used to be 50

the highest price

[glass arch]

it was $10 initially then upped to $20 and then it ended at $50

[languid musk]

of course morally you should still keep them credited, but to have a long term meta impact on the mod for $50 is crazy

[potent perch]

Di whips even exist in calamity

[indigo yacht]

the main reason i dislike donor weapons is because the money went to fabsol directly honestly

[vocal wedge]

Fabsol was not famed for long term impact.

[kind laurel]

not yet

[vocal wedge]

No.

[potent perch]

has the whip never been invented in the calamity universe

[glass arch]

not yet there are some planned

[indigo yacht]

calamity does not add any whips

[gilded citrus]

No new whips

But they do affect sunmoners balancing a lot iirc

[indigo yacht]

I don't blame the donors but I don't like it either

[gilded citrus]

The vanilla ones

[vocal wedge]

That's the reason why.

[potent perch]

I mean is there not a single whip in the universe of calamity

There is not a single ovject

[gilded citrus]

?

[vocal wedge]

There are the vanilla ones.

[glass arch]

in calamity there are whips

[tepid crown]

technically. one exists. (psc with summon weapon) but in actuality no

[potent perch]

In all of calamity terraria

[indigo yacht]

cnidarian

[vocal wedge]

There are whips. From vanilla.

[gilded citrus]

Vanilla whips exist still?

[potent perch]

I’m more joking about the lack

Not actual question

[tepid crown]

it may have a tag but it isnt a whip...

[indigo yacht]

discrimination

[kind laurel]

Considering they double the damage of some minions iirc yeah it's understandable
I hope once they start balancing around whips they bring back additive damage ones but I digress

[indigo yacht]

they already did

[potent perch]

not 1 person in all of calamity history has thought of using a strand with high force as a weapon

[indigo yacht]

whips are not multiplicative as of 2.1

[potent perch]

does the universe jist refuse to let that object be created

[gilded citrus]

Oh right

[vocal wedge]

They do indeed exist.

[kind laurel]

Oh thank goodness

[vocal wedge]

As we all know, Jane Whip invented the whip during the Ibipaua Crisis of 1422.

[gilded citrus]

Vanilla weapons are canon and real if they do not break anything just like cal weapons

[potent perch]

No the laws of the calamity world enforce the rules of nature that a whip like object cannot be formed

[kind laurel]

I'll be honest I started 2.1 playthrough when I was already rather burnt out on the game and never bothered to fight any bosses

[vocal wedge]

Don't you remember? You were there too!

[gilded citrus]

Happens

[kind laurel]

Those only apply to hooks

[potent perch]

Calamity gods hate whips mrow than nameless deity hates the rod of harmony

[kind laurel]

Bobbit is a miraculous exception formed by a miracle

I think there might be another Cal one but I forget honestly

Oh yeah that one

Two miracles wow

[potent perch]

Bro imageine living in the abyss before being kidnapped and used as a grappling hook

THERES a subjen sea one

Some other one

[vocal wedge]

Well now I know what we should do to Silva.

[potent perch]

John Bobbie soem

[potent perch]

Dispose of Silvia’s remains

[vocal wedge]

Too late.

We need to gather them up to make a hook.

[potent perch]

ok fair point

[gilded citrus]

Her being in the abyss is that

[potent perch]

turn RHE devourer into a hook

[vocal wedge]

Ew, no.

I'm not putting my hands on that.

[potent perch]

turn Thanatos into a hook

[gilded citrus]

I do not want to get called slurs

[potent perch]

turn my brain eating parasite into a hook

[kind laurel]

Sepulchook

sadly the portmanteu is only when written

[potent perch]

Also I swear Silva was a dude who looked like this

Why did I think this bro😭

Turn yharim into a hook

When he is a boss in 2079

[vocal wedge]

Huh, we didn't get hit with peeled Silva. Strange.

[gilded citrus]

Do not think we have had official silva concept art before the mango ones but im unsure

[fossil finch]

im crying man

[gilded citrus]

?

[fossil finch]

turret sugg

[gilded citrus]

Ah yeah fair

Certainly a suggestion

[potent perch]

The mango one?

https://tenor.com/view/those-who-know-mango-mango-mango-mango-trollface-scary-gif-4486823862332184568

[hollow shell]

... Hm.

I actually.. don't know exactly how to rule on this?
Very rare type of suggestion

[fossil finch]

(thankfully very rare)

if it was me I'd make this kind of thing a don't just because it's like weird and sets an awkward precedent and because it's probably not going to happen ever

[languid musk]

I suppose it's an honor haha

[hollow shell]

I will go ask the developers about this

Kudos to the suggester, you get bonus visibility

[languid musk]

appreciate it :)

[languid musk]

tbh most people who are opposed to it so far are against it on procedural grounds but personally I don't see the harm

or are atleast against it being posted in the channel

[fossil finch]

well there's not really any particular argument against it

Like yeah they could do that. It would not be challenging to do that. It would benefit people in a certain scenario. Do they want to do that though

[languid musk]

yeah no harm if they don't want to, they're not obgliated to do so

but hey, it's a suggestion and I figure that's what the channel is for

[fossil finch]

Like as a whole do they want people to be like oh if they can make a standalone version of this why don't they do that for like Everything and it's weird and a complex question and like as a whole apply that to every mod and like, yeah

[languid musk]

and like I mentioned when I reviewed the rules I didn't see anywhere else to put it

[fossil finch]

And I mean i don't, actually know if there are any, but i do believe there's probably a mod with like turrets,

[languid musk]

you can make anything into a slippery slope, imo it should just be up to whether the devs want to do it

it's their assets and their time

[hollow shell]

I have now asked the devs

I will let you know what they say

[languid musk]

trust me I tried to find one, the most popular non calamity one kinna sucked

I placed it down and watched it miss 100+ shots out of a minishark

without landing a single hit

[languid musk]

sounds good, thanks again

[keen zodiac]

the devs can change numbers all they want

only need permission for reworks, resprites and probably retiers

[north oracle]

yea donors definitely don't get to decide how strong their wewapons are

[karmic bridge]

#suggestions-posting message but he does use fireballs ❓

[limber drift]

Didn’t they remove those

I thought the rework got rid of them

[karmic bridge]

did you fight him recently

[limber drift]

I did but Like I must if missed them or something

[karmic bridge]

its says fireballs in the 2.1 changelogs too

[limber drift]

I may be stupid

[indigo yacht]

they're only really considered fireballs because they're called as such

[limber drift]

I’ll remove the fireball mention but like why does he even have fire stuff

[karmic bridge]

looks like fireballs to me

just blue and purple

[limber drift]

I tweaked it to remove the mention of the fireballs

[oblique birch]

It's being a heat debuff because the person that listed it originally took the name too literal

[limber drift]

I think my brain mixed up the removal of like the lazer phases with them removing the fireballs or something as well

Also on the god slayer’s inferno page on the wiki it still lists cosmic guardians

Even though they’re removed

[karmic bridge]

what debuff type do you propose it be changed to even if you rename it to fit

none of the others really fit the lore association

typeless??

[limber drift]

Idk but like fire doesn’t really fit dog at all
Maybe like cold since like I’d imagine the distortion would be very cold idk

But like it would just add a lot more variety to debuff elements post-moon lord like i said in the suggestion

[glass arch]

god slayer surge never

[keen zodiac]

i think this is already planned maybe?

@half imp confirm

[karmic bridge]

voidfrost exists already so I dont think we should make it cold

[limber drift]

Having two post-ml cold debuffs wouldn’t be too bad since we have like 5 fire ones currently if its the diversity that you’d thinks the issue

[keen zodiac]

yeah there's already dragonfire, voidfrost, sulphuric poisoning, hadopelagic pressure and auric rebuke

for the endgame typed debuffs

could also switch dragonfire and auric rebuke with holy flames and vermilion flux for the dog tiered ones

[tame vigil]

pretty sure it'll be typeless in the future

[karmic bridge]

add a new element for when the distortion gets added

boom

problem solved

[limber drift]

Distortion element

What would even else be part if that

[glass arch]

whispering death

[limber drift]

Chaos state?

[keen zodiac]

RoD uses primordial light

[limber drift]

Also hear me out what if ichor was a water debuff

[karmic bridge]

piss debuff

[limber drift]

What even is ichor in the calamity canon

[karmic bridge]

is typeless if thats what your asking

[limber drift]

Like is its description actually canon being the blood of the gods or whatever

[karmic bridge]

random flavor tooltips usually arent lore significant

[limber drift]

Yeah but isn’t the crimson made of dead gods

[karmic bridge]

I think so

[limber drift]

Then its description would actually end up making like perfect sense

[keen zodiac]

yeah pretty sure it's just god blood

or at least god essence infused blood/liquid

[limber drift]

I do wonder if calamity has a canon explanation for how that reduces defence

Like is it just drenching you?

[keen zodiac]

maybe it's corrosive idk

[limber drift]

Corrosive blood would be kinda illogical to exist

[keen zodiac]

well it's not in anybody anymore

[limber drift]

I guess but also if it were corrosive wouldn’t that be a dps effect or at least be one as well

[tame vigil]

what's the lore explanation for being able to make stuff that doesn't have eyes cry

[keen zodiac]

true

forcing stip to write a 1000 word dissertation on the mechanics of the teardrop cleaver

[limber drift]

Fair

[limber drift]

Wait so if this will already eventually become a thing should I remove my suggestion or no

[tame vigil]

i mean GSI being heat makes sense for right now. DoG has fire attacks and its called inferno. with the introduction of rebuke i could make it typeless, but there's no real reason rn.

i'd say yea

[limber drift]

Do you mean Yea to removing it?

[hollow shell]

Alright, this suggestion is allowed @languid musk
They noted that it's very unlikely they'll actually do it, but,
it'll be given the full rights and due process of any suggestion

As will similar "separate mod" suggestions going forward

Very unlikely, but not banned

[indigo yacht]

i think it'd be worth at least adding a note to the document that it's explicitly allowed

[languid musk]

alright, thanks for the update

[hollow shell]

ugh god where would I put that?

[indigo yacht]

uh i guess just in other rules?

maybe below the donor note

"Suggestions about adding calamity content to a separate unconnected mod are explicitly allowed" or whatever

and then some guidelines about what qualifies and what doesnt plus a line that "the devs probably won't accept any of these but you're allowed to"

[drowsy plank]

dont bother

if the rule is just "you can suggest this but they'll never do it" you might as well just not put it on there at all

[keen zodiac]

yeag

[languid musk]

@hollow shellif they don't decide to make the other mod, hypothetically would I have permission to publish something similar with full credits given to the calamity team?

[bold island]

It Depends. You should probably just remake the turrets without our code and assets and then publish it which prevents you from having to ask us permission in the first place

You are allowed to make mods which replicate calamity features but getting permission for things like asset usage is more time consuming and difficult

You can also just blame the files you want to copy and ask the contributor(s) directly if you can use the code

[languid musk]

it's just more respectful to ask beforehand, but considering that it seems the team is pretty fragmented I might just take your advice

[bold island]

it is appreciated that you asked

you only have to ask us for permission if:

1. you are publishing the mod
2. the mod uses some of calamity's intellectual property
   tho

[languid musk]

oh I misread, reusing the code is just easier and it was the plan if I were to publish anything that replicated the functionality of the turrets

do you know who made the assets/code or do I have to dig through github commits?

[bold island]

git blame da files

as for the assets i dont really know and i would have to search

but i can do as such later

[drowsy plank]

YuH probably knows

[languid musk]

okay I would appreciate that, gimme a ping if you find out or if anyone else knows

[keen zodiac]

YuH is the knower

[bold island]

nevermind big man up top said no, you can't make mods that clone calamity content

@languid musk

apologies

[languid musk]

so I'm confused, does the rights belong to the contributors or the project leads?

because I was asked to get permission from the original contributors and now I'm told that someone up top said no?

[bold island]

ozzatron owns the company holding the rights to the assets and source code and you have to get his permission before anything else, i believe

[keen zodiac]

calamity is owned by azafure llc, and ozzatron is technically the only employee yeah

[languid musk]

okay, that makes a bit more sense

[craggy girder]

the ceo

[languid musk]

I'm still doubtful of his legal claim to assets and code written by non-employee contributors with whom I assume he has no contract with, but I'll avoid publishing anything using any Calamity assets

[keen zodiac]

he's the Everything

[craggy girder]

dude's the janitor?

[languid musk]

still, it'd be nice if Calamity officially spun the turrets off :P

[keen zodiac]

yeah

[craggy girder]

also azafure llc is kinda a flames name

also also the turret are a direct staple of Draedon's labs

to seperate them would kinda leave the current ones undefended

[languid musk]

my suggestion wouldn't involve removing them from Calamity, just making a separate mod that allows players to craft them with their current functionality copy pasted over

Terraria is missing a good static defense mod

[hollow shell]

"clopen" joke

[craggy girder]

ooooooooh.

you want a base defense mod

i see

[hollow shell]

I guess you're right, or if it's out there I haven't seen it

Obviously the vanilla game has traps but those only go so far
and there's the entire summoner class & sentries, but those defenses are not permanent

[languid musk]

yep, and I checked out other options but Calamity turrets does the job best imo

[craggy girder]

i mean if you got permission to use the turrets as like. a reference item

[hollow shell]

Yeah as long as it's all your own assets and code then there's no need to worry about permissions or anything

Though if you have little or no experience in either field that may be daunting

[languid musk]

I have some experience but not enough to confidently do something like that myself, esp with art, copying what already works well would be a lot easier

and ofc having the original authors publish it would also avoid any touchiness with credits

and I honestly think that a simple static defense mod like what Calamity offers would be popular

I was surprised when I saw that a game as popular as Terraria didn't have one lol

if the devs decide not to go with my suggestion and I don't have permission to publish anything I'll probably just copy the assets/code for personal use

it'd be a bit of a shame though

[worthy fractal]

why is there only 1 elemental rogue weapon when ranged and melee have like 3

[crude geode]

melee bias /hj

[kind laurel]

Ranged bias honestly, that one has three Exos as well while Melee drops to one

[drowsy plank]

posting this thing finally

it's a bit weird ngl but i feel like there's something there

[keen zodiac]

died 2023
born 2026

welcome back yharim's stimulants

[hollow shell]

imo if you've been attentive about gardening through your playthrough then you'll already have more than enough herbs for all the potions you need

Garden expands with each harvest due to seed drops

The fishing aspect, however,
I agree with. (Mostly.)
Cuz that gets better uhh linearly, with better poles.

[indigo yacht]

5 minutes too late im washed as hell

[keen zodiac]

i don't think having a giant herb stockpile should be mandatory to play the game effectively

especially with how boring farming is

[indigo yacht]

honestly people way overestimate how hard it is to get herbs you literally just harvest them when you see them it takes 5 seconds and if the farm is at your base then you can get a lot frequently

there should be an upgrade to alluring bait imo or something like that

i wish alluring bait was in vanilla

[keen zodiac]

i don't think it's hard, it's just super tedious

[indigo yacht]

it takes like 5 second every 15 minutes

you don't have to remember every time as long as you remember occasionally

[hollow shell]

You don't need potions. It's not like Codebreaker where if you don't do it early then you're locked out of the final boss until you play catch up.

If you want potions then you can invest in it.

[hollow shell]

Perhaps so

[keen zodiac]

reminder that boss minions are currently balanced around tesla potions

[hollow shell]

I think it's satisfying..... but I'm not everyone

[crude geode]

Seasons in terraria when

[hollow shell]

Tesla Potions? What Tesla Potions?

https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Tesla's_Amulet

[keen zodiac]

when they still existed

[indigo yacht]

I don't dislike this suggestion for the record, in fact I'd love to have combination potions if for no other reason than it wouldnt take up 30 fucking inventory slots

i find it kind insane they take up that much space and everything is balanced around them

[hollow shell]

Not "currently" then :P

[eternal escarp]

you can drink pots from your void bag btw

[indigo yacht]

via quick buff?

[keen zodiac]

i want to use my void bag for its intended purpose though

not just potions

[eternal escarp]

yea

[indigo yacht]

that's neat but yeah what xzier said

I'll have to try it next time i play

[eternal escarp]

i mean id assume its one of the intended purposes given its special in being able to do that

[hollow shell]

That is true

[eternal escarp]

either way i think the issue here is that theyre balanced with as a baseline rather than potions being an investment thing

[hollow shell]

My usual game plan for hard bosses is put in as many attempts as I can without potions, get as far as I can get
Then when I think potions will take me over the edge into winning, I load up my inventory

I don't pot up for every attempt

[crude geode]

Understandable really

[indigo yacht]

my boss fights either don't require potions at all or i get one shot after 12 seconds and the boss is at 98% health so i get potions

[keen zodiac]

yeah that was my point

the bosses have very fabsolian balancing

[hollow shell]

(only boss like that for me was Catalyst Astrageldon Phase 2
Except I died after like 3 minutes and the boss was at 98% health

I then promptly gave up :3c )

[indigo yacht]

INSANE

[keen zodiac]

were you using beam sword perhaps

[hollow shell]

I was indeed playing melee

uhh lemme go look what wep I was using

[indigo yacht]

when i was doing weaponless destroyer i got hit by the head for 350 damage and it had been 3 minutes and the boss was at 85% health

and decided i needed to get potions (and also start facetanking but i digress

[hollow shell]

I was using the post-Brainstorm Entropic Claymore so yes

A homing multi-proj beam sword, the best kind of melee weapon

[half imp]

Important to note: balancing is not going to be primarily done with potions in mind in the future

It may account for some that we simply have to (summoning potion, ironskin)

[hollow shell]

(I went all the way down to Classic difficulty and beat it then
And didn't use any of its rewards cuz I felt guilty)

[hollow shell]

👀

[keen zodiac]

thought so

[vocal wedge]

Who knew 8 defence was so good?

[half imp]

Ironskin is so broken

[vocal wedge]

Warmth Potion is OP though.

[half imp]

Definitely the most OP potion

[keen zodiac]

make it scaling

[gilded citrus]

Dang really

[half imp]

yes

Summoning Potion might be stronger than ironskin but it's also much more work

Ironskin is cheap and still one of the most powerful potions

[vocal wedge]

And much weaker if you're not Summoner.

[half imp]

no

[hollow shell]

I was going to ask if this would make the mod too 'easy' but then I remembered we've been living under Fabsol balancing for the past decade

Who gives a shit

[half imp]

it's more valuable for non summoner because you go from one minion to two

[half imp]

guess what people can do if they want the mod to be harder

not use potions :)

[hollow shell]

new game mode item Iron Stomach... disables potions....

[half imp]

We don't have an official plan on how exactly we want to approach potions, but many devs want us to not be using them for primary balance

[keen zodiac]

yippee

[half imp]

at least more than needed

[keen zodiac]

i usually don't use potions bc i just can't be fucked

[fossil finch]

awesome

[keen zodiac]

the game's not that hard

[tepid crown]

something something can we just kill summoner pot

[half imp]

My personal opinion is like

The three cheap ones (ironskin, Regen, swiftness), maybe flasks? and then like Summoner Potion because it's Just Required to not cripple dps

[fossil finch]

haha dont kill summoner pot youre so sexy

i mean yeah its basically as mandatory as it gets but just dont care. its easy, its easy to not care

[tepid crown]

can we give ender a thumbs down react

[half imp]

Mana Regen Potion is also crazy strong but you get the effect from Star In A Bottle too

so it's fine

[gilded citrus]

Oh damn really did not realise those were that strong

[hollow shell]

Is it??

[half imp]

mana regen potion is absolutely HUGE

[hollow shell]

Star in a bottle, that is

[sleek turret]

They are that strong

[tepid crown]

mana regen carrying mages mana regen playstyle:

[fossil finch]

bottle is a little weaker iirc

[hollow shell]

I know the pot is good

[half imp]

Star in a Bottle in calamity gives Mana Regen Potion effect

[gilded citrus]

I meant the star in the bottle i know mana regen is absurdp

[keen zodiac]

buh

[gilded citrus]

Dang

[half imp]

unless you already have Mana Regen Pot, then it does the vanilla effect

[tepid crown]

its a cal thing where if u dont have mana regen pot it gives u that effect instead

[hollow shell]

Wow!

[fossil finch]

ah lol}

[sleek turret]

star in a bottle is 7.5 mana per sec. but idk mana regen at least in vanilla

[fossil finch]

calamity mod bottom text

[keen zodiac]

least insane calamity balancing decision

[half imp]

So basically, using both together is the same as vanilla both together, but either one solo is the same as Mana Regen Pot

[hollow shell]

Crazy

[half imp]

because needing a potion to play the game is not cool!!

[hollow shell]

But probably nice for sanity

[fossil finch]

my opinion again is to stop caring i think we all collectively forgot summon pot existed when balancing fables summons although i guess they're all early enough it doesnt matter. but i just think its like. dont care

[tepid crown]

it makes mana regen mage usable without mana regen pot, while also having some sort of investment to make it work while also making it accessible and not scale horribly with actual mana regen pot

[keen zodiac]

how strong is arcane crystal

[fossil finch]

the only pot that is only one hundred percent obligatory to be functional unles you have Other Gear is mana regen rlly

[half imp]

Early summons are where it's the biggest problem

2 slots to 3 is +50% dps woohoo

[tepid crown]

you can not care about a lot of shit

[half imp]

at least, unless you give summons static iframes like vanilla

[tepid crown]

horrible arguement to make

[half imp]

But then summon mixing is still insane

[keen zodiac]

why is it required for aqueous hunter drone 🥹

[fossil finch]

aqueous hunter drone is so funny

it eats all your available slots fuck you. one minion. fuck you

)im exaggerating but still

[half imp]

AHD being 3 would be such a nicer amount

[keen zodiac]

you can't even use it post evil2 you need fucking bee armor

[half imp]

you'd be able to get 2 pre WoF just barely

[half imp]

Yeah, bee armor, pygmy necklace, bewitching table

or summon pot

[fossil finch]

i used it like once but i was too sad and i wanted five billion herrings so

[keen zodiac]

the swarm

[gilded citrus]

5 billion herrings is the correct decision

[half imp]

herring staff rework makes me so sad

What do you MEAN it has 3 fish but two are only visual

[gilded citrus]

Wait really

[keen zodiac]

whar

[fossil finch]

what

what

thats so fucked up

[fossil finch]

who did this

this is so fucked up

[half imp]

Memes

[fossil finch]

of course

[half imp]

the memes summoner moment..

[fossil finch]

of fuckign course

[sleek turret]

of fucking course

[gilded citrus]

Thought they only were not as strong as 3 due to pierce i frames shenanigans and being close together

[tepid crown]

oh is this from when it stopped being 0.3 per summon

[fossil finch]

told having a bunch of summons is the appealing part of summoner

[frail mantle]

does memes still exist

[keen zodiac]

no

he found his path

[vocal wedge]

Oh, so none of them are real.

[fossil finch]

what? no fuck you. you get no summons. fuck you

[half imp]

0.5 before the rework

[sleek turret]

memes is gone and I think they wanted to not be affiliated with cal anymore

[tepid crown]

i forgot...

its been like 3 years can u blame me

[half imp]

correct, they requested being removed from Thank You entirely

Yes.

I can.

[tepid crown]

oh ok

:(

[vocal wedge]

Damn, they're citing the deep lore now.

[fossil finch]

bringing up that mod that got made

[frail mantle]

there has never been a mod that got made

[half imp]

playing on the scrapped summoner rebalance branch
Try to fight exos
Don't even have enough slots for full ares exoskeleton

[fossil finch]

dude dont tell me calamity summoner nerf got taken down

dude

[keen zodiac]

[fossil finch]

hearbroken

im so heartbroken

[sleek turret]

https://tenor.com/view/flightreacts-reaction-flight-reacts-flight-reacts-flightreacts-gif-14526489174047821058

[half imp]

I think we should give the player 10 minion slots at base so minion slot power spike isn't real

[vocal wedge]

I see, the tactic to balance Summoner was to remove it.

[fossil finch]

calamity summoner nerf was the best fucking mod ever made

[keen zodiac]

true

[gilded citrus]

Wait huh

[tepid crown]

hold on his writing is THIS fire?!

[indigo yacht]

10% damage bonus

[fossil finch]

is that imple

[indigo yacht]

finally balanced

[hollow shell]

funny

[fossil finch]

it redid minion slot progression to be like the planned one

which is like

10 in endgame

[hollow shell]

There is No Such Thing as Calamity

[fossil finch]

which is lower than vanillas post ml

[half imp]

10 slots auric tier yup

[fossil finch]

which is in fucking sane

[half imp]

and that was max possible, you couldn't minmax higher

I genuinely just could not get enough slots for exoskeleton

Demonshade tier gave me 13 slots

[vocal wedge]

How much does that need?

[sleek turret]

Balancing things with no sense of the thing in the base game

[tepid crown]

ares exoskeleton needs 12 slots

3 per arm

[vocal wedge]

Ah.

[keen zodiac]

not even enough for endogenesis and a hunter drone 💔

[half imp]

Although the 10 slots limit did give me a fun idea for exoskeleton change

Each arm costing a different amount of slots

[keen zodiac]

hmmmm

[half imp]

Laser - 1
Plasma - 2
Tesla - 3
Gauss - 4

probably

[sleek turret]

modularity!!!!

[half imp]

so if you want highest power you go all gauss and use 16 slots on it

or you can invest in some mix

[keen zodiac]

16 slots to become oppenheimer

[half imp]

I have become gauss, nuke

[vocal wedge]

Yeah, Nuclear Shotgun sounds good.

[keen zodiac]

full gauss exoskeleton + gauss nuke clockwork bow

🔥

[half imp]

fun fact! Despawning and respawning gauss nuke at the right time can speed up its fire rate slightly

it's not very noticable and very annoying to do

[hollow shell]

close enough, welcome back luxor spam click murasama

[half imp]

but anyway the one thing that I do think we need to be real from summoner rebalance

[keen zodiac]

pre-2.1 phaseslayer:

[half imp]

Summon potion just being a base +1 slot

So you have 2 slots at base and then potion is idk 10% whip range or something

[keen zodiac]

ah

[vocal wedge]

Summoner Potion should be a permanent consumable. Just accept that it is too powerful.

[gilded citrus]

You should be a boss summon

[fossil finch]

WELCOME BACK BALLISTA SPAMMING

[vocal wedge]

Good news, I'm the Yharim summon.

[keen zodiac]

summon him

[gilded citrus]

Go on then

[vocal wedge]

Okie dokie.

[tepid crown]

ofc the british person is the yharim summon

[vocal wedge]

HEY!

[worthy fractal]

how do i obtain you

[hollow shell]

"Grants +1 minion slot only if you do not have 2 minion slots"

Useful preHM then never again

[vocal wedge]

Send me 5000 euro.

[hollow shell]

[worthy fractal]

wHAT

p2w

:(

[half imp]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/241678440888008706/1467880225143521310/ezgif-36d326ab81ce949a.gif

[fossil finch]

this is problematic because that one tester gear document has it be exclusively post queen bee

[keen zodiac]

i can't believe calamity added macrotransactions

[sleek turret]

🥀

[fossil finch]

also its problematic because you get a minion slot post fucking ds

everyone wants to blame one specific accesory for being the breaking point fo calamity summoner balance but its never fucking jelly. look at it. look at it.

[half imp]

Yeah this is bad

Because like

+1 slot potion
+1 slot bee
+1 slot pygmy

[fossil finch]

to be fair statis blessing is also lol but like jelly is the primordial sin

[half imp]

no WONDER stuff is dcrewetthere

[half imp]

I don't think jelly is really the issue though tbh

[keen zodiac]

dcrewetthere

[half imp]

Somewhere has to have that +1 slot

I don't see why post DS is a worse spot than anywhere else

[fossil finch]

does it. i mean vanilla does just fine relying on armor until qb

[half imp]

Yeah, and so the first +1 slot is there on QB

it's still there it's just somewhere else

[fossil finch]

at which point you'll probably be getting potion and next boss gives you bewitching table

[half imp]

And being on QB is a problem because queen bee gives 2 slots

[tepid crown]

vanilla does just fine relying on whips until qb i think you mean

[half imp]

Going from 3 to 5 slots is a gigantic jump

[half imp]

also this yeah

vanilla is super super whip dmg heavy early game

[hollow shell]

Add an awful overarching balance mechanic that makes it so your summon damage is divided by the amount of minions / used slots you have summoned

So more summon slots gives you more active hitboxes but doesn't multiply your DPS

[tepid crown]

wow! stealth 2.0!!

[half imp]

I should get the numbers on whip contrib in vanilla

[keen zodiac]

on 1.4.5 i got starcrasher preboss and just deleted everything until skeletron

[half imp]

I can now that tmod 1.4.5 has a contributor preview...

[fossil finch]

tbf 1.4.5 just has unbalanced stuff. fixed at some point im sure

[half imp]

In fact I need to do that so we can decide in cal how we want to handle whip

[sleek turret]

Next vanilla patch intends to address some balance concerns

[half imp]

will they finally make revolver gimmick usable...

[gilded citrus]

Rebolver has a gimick?

[half imp]

In 1.4.5 yes

Timing clicks allows you to shoot faster

Problem: there's 0 way to know when to time it

[tepid crown]

so remember how u had to spam click venus magnum to get max damage. imagine if that was like properly encouraged by the game

[half imp]

good

[gilded citrus]

I see

[half imp]

bring back spam.clicking

[tepid crown]

no not good thats how u get carpal tunnel i think

[half imp]

YEAH THE WORST PART

is that it's gradual

[vocal wedge]

Yeah that would totally work and make sense yes.

[half imp]

So you can't even memorize one timing

[tepid crown]

yea there isnt anything to memorise ur just. straight up being encouraged to spam click

[half imp]

Also what 2x attack speed and 20% crit is crazy

[fossil finch]

its okay thats nothing

[half imp]

I genuinely have 0 idea how revolver passed playtesting it feels so bad

[fossil finch]

ranger has minishark available at all times forever. gimmick weapon that gives 20% crit might frankly be good for ranger players. doing something interesting for once

[half imp]

yeah I don't mind the numbers as much as

The gimmick being super obtuse and basically impossible for most players to really interact with well

it's like trying to time stealth strikes with my eyes closed and audio off

[vocal wedge]

And it speeds up when you get it right but slows down when you don't.

[half imp]

I mean stealth strike timing is inconsistent bc of movement vs still

[sleek turret]

it'd be so funny if it had the Thorium bard weapon gimmick for some weapons where you have to time your shots for better attacks and enhancements but oughh

[half imp]

It's different reason for inconsistency but both are inconsistent

[hollow shell]

Well that appears to actually be the idea with Revolver it's just not communicated well enough

[tepid crown]

does it? im reading the notes section and it only says crit chance gets reduced by misfiring

[hollow shell]

I do like the idea a lot actually it just needs to be Done Better

[indigo yacht]

+1 max sentries

[kind laurel]

I remember back when I thought making my own mod was a neat dream to have I put vanilla's tier-by-tier summon count into a graph and tried to predict how high it would go if I added post-ML stuff

Trying to find it

[vocal wedge]

We obviously need a third kind of summon that is inbetween a minion and a sentry.

[indigo yacht]

so sanctified spark

[kind laurel]

Sentry that follows your cursor

[vocal wedge]

I was thinking minions that are attached to the player.

[indigo yacht]

summoner main discovers weapons

[indigo yacht]

a sentry that straight up just follows you around and is not a sentry but counts as one

[kind laurel]

Isn't that... several weapons that already exist

[vocal wedge]

It's not a category... yet.

[sleek turret]

had this dream of unorthodox summoner weapons and probably remade the Calamity accessory as a category of summoner weapons

[kind laurel]

Estimates:
For every tier, gain 2/3 summon slot for armor (y = 2/3x + 2)
For every tier, gain 3/4 summon slot for accessories (y = 1/2x + 2)
For every tier, gain 1/2 accessory slot needed to max accessories (y = 1/2x)

Yeah idk what the heck I was on about last year

Cal has... counts 5 tiers after ML???

[vocal wedge]

What do we count as a tier?

[kind laurel]

Prov Sentinels DoG Yharon Finale

[vocal wedge]

Polterghast makes more sense than Distortion Trio.

[kind laurel]

Bosses similar in strength with drops also similar in strength

[keen zodiac]

the actual major tiers are:
post moonlord
post providence
post polterghast
post dog
post yharon
postgame

[kind laurel]

I didn't count post-ML because ML is vanilla so I was about right

I just think of Sentinels before Polter because they're "required" or whatever

[vocal wedge]

They're not.

[kind laurel]

That's what the quotes are for

[vocal wedge]

Polterghast is like, way more important for progression.

[keen zodiac]

polter's a fraud

they're the same strength

[kind laurel]

According to my stupid 2025 chart Auric armor should have 9 slots and accessories with 6 summon accessories that total up to 8 extra slots
So max 17

That's a lot

[kind laurel]

Not "I think Polter is stronger," "I Sentinels come to mind first when talking about that tier"

Sorry

[kind laurel]

Luckily I've decided I hate coding so it will never have to be real (yippee)

[half imp]

Post trio and post polter items are both meant to be the same power

[kind laurel]

I know

[vocal wedge]

New suggestion: Rename Signus please God rename that damn boss.

[limber drift]

His new name will be “signas, envoy of the devourer”

[vocal wedge]

I will turn you to rust.

[limber drift]

Rust… like rust and dust….

[tame vigil]

potions are removed from the game when you get to post ml

[craggy girder]

sigmus, chad of the distortion

[kind laurel]

Obviously we should rename him to Stignis so people bug report "Statis' Ninja Belt/Void Sash have a typo"

[glass arch]

we should rename him to stanley

[crude geode]

https://tenor.com/view/the-stanley-parable-stanley-the-bucket-gif-25539171

[plush flame]

i agree

[indigo yacht]

this is two suggestions in one

[kind laurel]

It's supposed to be "rework this and add something that resembles it's original function so it's not lost" which hopefully can be made into one thing by switching words around...

There

Better?

[keen zodiac]

@kind laurel miracle flower is already planned

and immaterializer will obviously be reworked Eventually™

[kind laurel]

everything I suggest is already planned I guess

[worthy fractal]

question, which miracle weapons are planned?

[weary bane]

miracle spear and miracle flower iirc

[worthy fractal]

ah ok

that makes sense

[gentle vector]

i would like to make a sugestion thats completly visual and dosent add much to the modpack in terms of content or gameplay and is purely visual but im wondering if its even worht making such a sugestion. i would love if they made the new wulfrum barier variants change color intensity or something like that to apear offline when deactivated as the block alredy provides a realy cool building idea as a shield but curently theres like absolutely no visual change to it when its deactivated as a block. my idea would be to make it apear offline/disabled when its deactivated as a block

[glass arch]

yeah you can suggest that

[drowsy plank]

this is using acctuators, right?

if that's the case it might be faster if you file it as an oversight in #1052323733961977947

[gentle vector]

yeah actuators + wires to disable the block colision

[drowsy plank]

since blocks should have clear differentiations between activated and deactivated states

[gentle vector]

okay

[half imp]

huh this is probably not intentional but it's kinda cool

[gentle vector]

i would love if it apeared as an offline shield or something of sorts to make the block alow cool builds. unless the devs had other ideas behind it

[half imp]

you can replicate the offline look through paints I'd imagine

it being a fully visible force field you can pass through is kinda cool and gives it other unique uses

I don't know if that's the intention or not though

[gentle vector]

yeah thats my question tbh weather its intended or not, as for paint i tryed to apply some but deactivating/activating led to the same visual look

[half imp]

yeah, I don't know if it's intentional

[half imp]

Like, deactivating/activating stopped the paint?

my point was you can probably replicate the "deactivated" look with a grey or black paint

[gentle vector]

oh yeah that would actualy work. and if there was a way to somehow apply/remove paint with wires it would semi acomplish the same idea i had here

but yeah the block alone esp the blue one is very paintable. so u can get some realy nice glowing bariers going for building

[drowsy plank]

how do you turn the shield back on afterwards if you painted it grey

paint isnt affected by wiring

[half imp]

if you need it dynamically toggled yes

[drowsy plank]

i mean that seems to be the implication via the clip

[sterile jetty]

Hi

[half imp]

In this case, yes, it's dynamic

[drowsy plank]

the shield is supposed to "shut off" when you flick the switch, but because there is no visual difference between actuated and unactuated tiles there's no visual change to tell you that the shield is down or that the blocks are actuated

[sterile jetty]

I'm in Master + Death mode, any suggestions after beating Skeletron? I need to go to the abyss but even with Oceancrest + Victide armor I can't explore a lot of time :(

[half imp]

it changing when actuated is a trade off in use cases

[drowsy plank]

#help-advice-read-pins

[half imp]

#help-advice-read-pins

[drowsy plank]

lol

[sterile jetty]

Thx!

[half imp]

However I doubt it not changing is intentional

[drowsy plank]

if calamity wants to keep the unintended behavior i feel something similar to stone accent slabs should be done then, because- yeah that

[half imp]

Yeah

[drowsy plank]

hence directing them to bug reports so that much can be resolved at least

[half imp]

Yup

[half imp]

Discharge rename will be discussed when it gets reworked I think

[drowsy plank]

i see

[fossil finch]

Calamity calls what what

[drowsy plank]

wouldn't this be an oversight if it doesn't line up with what similar weapons are called?

[fossil finch]

That's what the terraria wiki calls solar eruption's projectile so you know what I can't be mad

[drowsy plank]

actually even our wiki calls it that

this is definietly an oversight @limber drift, so you should probably put it in #1052323733961977947

[limber drift]

Oh okay

Done

It is still funny to me at all that in vanilla melee’s 2 penultimate weapons are a javelin (which were thrower and now ranger in vanilla) and a whip (summoner)

[novel belfry]

whipsword is so weird man

[limber drift]

I’m pretty sure it isn’t even said in vanilla Terraria and its just what the wiki called it, which stuck so now they’re called that

[misty lichen]

it’s the projectile id name i think

solarwhipsword

yeah

called that before summoner whips even existed so they just wanted to call it that

[craggy girder]

also, whipswords are actual things

normally they just also have a sword form

[tepid crown]

@kind laurel it has solar fragments because it inflicts daybroken

[kind laurel]

ohh

that would make sense

Leaving it up but yeah I get why it isn't gonna pass

[drowsy plank]

the real question is why does it make sense for the dragonfolly summon

[tepid crown]

orang

[drowsy plank]

actually genuinely that's a big part of your argument so i want to know why you think singularities would be more fitting for it when you argument is for an item that arguably has them in there completely arbitrarily

because no "orang" is not a real reason

like yes i argued that is why it was done a while back, but that was just for why, it doesn't actually make any sense

cause im just gonna ❗ this until u do because like tsuki said it inflicts daybroken

which dragonfolly does not

[kind laurel]

The Amalgam is an amalgam of random bullcrap, and I thought that the pillar "random bullcrap" being only Solar was unfair

I didn't notice the "random bullcrap" and what debuffs it inflicts were connected at all

[drowsy plank]

yeah so i will be flagging this since it is working off of faulty reasoning lol

just wanted to make sure it was clear why i was tho

[kind laurel]

Go ahead, I genuinely had no clue

[tame vigil]

all of the ingredients in the amalgam correleate to a debuff it inflicts, yea

its a bunch of shit smashed together but it's purposeful shit

[craggy girder]

who was the guy who mentioned giving saros possession's beam more Oomph?

[novel belfry]

honestly

i think the ingredients shouldnt be random material items

they should be the debuff boosting accessories

[drowsy plank]

oh i didn't even realize the cosmic immaterializer suggestion is kinda just a rehashing of this fuckin thing lmao

[limber drift]

Now that I think about it is there any way to see what debuffs the amalgam is inflicting? I don’t think it specifies in its description, so maybe adding that could make what its current recipe is trying to be become more clear rather than just seeming random

[tame vigil]

will be a thing in the next update

[limber drift]

Ah okay That’d probably help then to seem less incoherent since people would probably then maybe realise why it does use those items

It does feel a little weird tho that the accessory focuses on debuffs randomly while the only debuff it’s precursors inflict is confusion from brain of confusion

[tame vigil]

#suggestions-posting message

issue with this is that there simply aren't enough debuff accessories to put into amalgam, and would result in, imo, more of a messy recipe not to mention that it absolutely wouldn't inherit all of their effects

displaying which debuffs it inflicts in 2.2 will be a fine change. i agree that it's a little weird it suddenly pivots hard to debuffs but that's a minor thing and the acc would be dead in the water without it

[novel belfry]

alr gimme a sec

[tame vigil]

amalgam is generally in a fine spot themeing-wise i think. there's other accessories i'd rather focus on now

[limber drift]

I could see trying to make rotten brain incorporate debuffs in some way so it is something that is throughout the accessory line, and maybe could make rotten brain more interesting

[novel belfry]

eh i disagree its kinda out of place

[limber drift]

It is also weird now that I think about it that amalgamted brain gets a post-dog upgrade but its kind of counterpart bloody worm scarf does not

[fossil finch]

its okay itll get one once they rework tooth to be something else and worm follows and then they give it the upgrade

[novel belfry]

Actually, Amalgam's debuffs could theoretically be explained by the following accessories becoming its materials:

• Hellfire Treads inflict Hellfire and boost fire debuffs thanks to Calamity's changes
• Frost Flare or Cryo Stone inflict Frostbite, with the latter boosting cold debuffs.
• Diamond of the Deep boosts water debuffs.
• Corrosive Spine and Toxic Heart both inflict and boost sickness debuffs (with the former also boosting Water slightly)
• Tesla's Amulet and the Blunder Booster grant electricity debuffs.

there's more than enough accessories RIGHT NOW that can be used as materials for the Amalgam in lieu of their current materials.

[limber drift]

Also i wonder how the evil 2s tier swap will impact these accessories, I’d assume rotten brain will either be like tier shifted too, or just become a more normal accessory found/dropped/crafted with materials from the corruption

[limber drift]

Diamond of the deep does have other effects tho so unless they were added too it would be kinda weird to include while corrosive spine could simply give the water debuff increases effects, seeing as it buffs sickness and water debuffs equally so either could be what it represents

[novel belfry]

crush depth comes from diamond and not corrosive spine

hmm

[limber drift]

No I’m saying since it has effects outside of just debuffs

[novel belfry]

ya but some of the others do

hellfire treads for goodness sake is a spectre boot on top of that

cryo stone, toxic heart and tesla's amulet could produce an aura-based accessory

hellfire treads and diamond of the deep are harder but

[limber drift]

I guess but like there is an option for the water debuff item that doesn’t have effects that would just be lost when “upgraded” so It’d work better, while there aren’t really other options for the others

[craggy girder]

corrosive spine also boosts water

[novel belfry]

YA IT MENTIONS THAT

[craggy girder]

yeuh you mentioend that

[tepid crown]

you do realise corrosive spine also boosts water right?

[limber drift]

It even boosts both water and sickness debuffs by the same amount, 25%, so its equally a water and sickness debuff item

[craggy girder]

[novel belfry]

[limber drift]

Also I just noticed theres only 2 things that boost electric debuffs, Tequila, and the amalgam which just boosts all debuff elements, which is really weird, like thats it?

[novel belfry]

ya

[tepid crown]

you wouldnt believe how many electric debuffs existed prior to brainstorm

[limber drift]

Was it 2?

[tepid crown]

yes

two

and only one of them dealt damage

[craggy girder]

also do we at all care abt my sugg

is it offending is it fine

[novel belfry]

its fine

[limber drift]

I will say that like its weird that like none of the dragonfolly related accs give any sort of electrical debuffs buff despite dragonfollies being very electric themed

[drowsy plank]

doesnt it also have a bar near the player

[craggy girder]

i dont think so

[glass arch]

im pretty sure it does

[drowsy plank]

After the parry finishes, successful or not, it will go on a cooldown, indicated by a rainbow bar above the player's head.

it literally does

[craggy girder]

oh well so it does

[drowsy plank]

i would prefer if they didn't do this then

[craggy girder]

perhaps having the cooldown till next parry on the rack then

[drowsy plank]

i mean

i guess yeah technically

that would be proper use for the cooldown rack so fair

i think charges are fine the way they are

[half imp]

There's more than ark that doesn't use cooldown rack too

[drowsy plank]

this is also true, and i would heavily push back against trying to move charges to cooldown rack

[craggy girder]

its the only one i can remember that has a bar on the item alone

instead of either indicated by Showing It On The Player (see, sahara slicers) or just praying a player can count

[half imp]

Claret Cannon

comes to mind

Saros in 2.2 will too once I remember

The Mutilator I think does too

[craggy girder]

that one is a cooldown for specifically no? instead of specfically countable charges

[half imp]

mutilator is charges

[craggy girder]

still a fair point but they serve different purposes

[craggy girder]

yea but its the mutilator fair enough

[drowsy plank]

unless i am misremembering, i think ark stores the charges from the parries when you switch weapons, so you need the inventory bar still, and the player one just already exists and is a lot clearer. we don't need to clutter the cooldown rack with charges again when they're so important for the weapon

[half imp]

I do think the parry cooldown should be on the bar though for sure

[drowsy plank]

but putting the parry on the cooldown rack is like. fine i guess

yeah

[craggy girder]

does each ark store its own parries?

like how claret stores its own cooldowns?

[half imp]

Claret no longer does that because you could spam 10 clarets

[drowsy plank]

i dunnooooo i only use frac arc and idk if crafting multiple would keep multiple charges on them

prolly not

[half imp]

mutilator does store its own charges though I know that

[craggy girder]

fuuuuuuuuck. why cant i spam 10 clarets :((((((

[half imp]

it was literally immortality

[craggy girder]

i know thats why im Sad

[drowsy plank]

we do not need to recreate the old special ammo boss weapons

or 10 charge weapons on hotbar

[half imp]

-# I did specifically know it was a thing when I added claret and left it

Nobody found it until I told them though

[craggy girder]

well yea im pretty sure the public was under the interpretation that all items share cooldowns with their same

[novel belfry]

hey doze what do you think of my amalgam suggestion

[half imp]

Luminite bars are because it inflicts Nightwither specifically

each of the 5 materials are specifically the debuff it inflicts

also this would make it way more annoying to make

[indigo yacht]

i prefer arks bar than on the cd rack

much easier to read because it's right below your character

[craggy girder]

i didnt remember it having a bar under the player TBH

i just remembered it having it on the person

[novel belfry]

yeah but thats a justification to add a bunch of debuff boosters and stuff

that. is actually straight up really unprecedented

amalgam gives a huge, brand new set of changes on top of its dodge and iframe-related stuff, and it isnt supported by the addition of accessories to its recipes

[half imp]

Not the only place that happens

Asgard's Valor, for example, gets knockback immunity

SotHR gets ankh debuff immunity

[novel belfry]

but they are tangentially related

asgard kb immunity is a holdover from its time as ankh's upgrade

amalgam, as far as im concerned, was never really an accessory you plop in

also imma be real

i dont actually see why it has all these debuff and buff stuff

[half imp]

Deadshot getting ammo cycle too

[novel belfry]

like, it just kinda feels like it was tossed in

thats probably whats weird

all of your examples have effects that are probably relatively connected

[half imp]

It replaced the old effect where it did a debuff explosion on hit with like 5 debuffs

[novel belfry]

hmm

i see.

but still

its weird

and it just makes it recipe confusing

im not sure how debuff boosts are related to a dodge

i can see that for master ninja line, since that has "physical" dodges and the "dodge buff" mechanic

but amalgam?

nah ya gonna have to support that with way more stuff

[half imp]

? I don't understand what you mean here

[novel belfry]

ninjas are known for dodging

the accessory line enables you to do that in two different ways

[half imp]

to be fair:

• BoC dodge buffs the player
• Rotten Brain clouds notably apply a good debuff to enemies

[novel belfry]

one that lets you move to dodge, and stuff

also im gonna be honest i like my idea because it makes its name make sense

eh i dunno

it just doesnt feel right

[novel belfry]

isnt confused infamously a debuff known for not working on a lot of enemies

i dont really plop on rotten brain for confusion

i plop it for the damage if i ever want to

[tepid crown]

rotten brain doesnt have confusion

[novel belfry]

right

i dont plop on amalgamated brain for the debuff

i plop it on for the dodge

the damage is a bonus

like i dont know how to explain it

when i plop on the upgrade of an accessory, i get it because i want a better version of its effects

brain of confusion and amalgamated brain are generally picks, even pre-brainstorm, because they're dodges

but amalgam has this random debuff booster that feels out of place

[limber drift]

Does amalgameted brain or rotten brain inflict any debuff (outside of confusion)? I thought it didn’t because it doesn’t mention that on the wiki unless thats wrong

[novel belfry]

is doze confusing the shaderain from the rotten brain to the shaderain from the shaderain staff

the latter does afflict a debuff

[tepid crown]

hes not

it does inflict brain rot

[novel belfry]

can you test that?

actaulyl what am i talking about

[tepid crown]

no but i can see it in the code right now

[novel belfry]

i can test this methinks

[tepid crown]

https://github.com/CalamityTeam/CalamityModPublic/blob/70e3e05bf8b04f36001210f5a411f7781df34673/Projectiles/Typeless/ShadeNimbusRain.cs#L48

[limber drift]

It is weird then that it entirely absent from the rotten brain’s wiki page if it does inflict that

[novel belfry]

yea sometimes the page is incomplete

[tepid crown]

not weird at all actually

^

new change and people just havent added it

theres a lot of these minor things that havent been changed in the wiki due to brainstorms sheer size

[novel belfry]

yea

alr some things have been clarified

anyhow tho, that debuff is really short-lived

[limber drift]

But like its other brainstorm changes are all documented if it was part of brainstorm

[glass arch]

yeah

on the brainstorm page