suggestions-discussion

[plush flame]

hooks are omnidirectional (very good) and can be significantly faster (bat, lunar, bobbit)

[fleet grotto]

but they're not dashes

[plush flame]

your problem is with something that has zero opportunity cost giving too much control

[fleet grotto]

compared to other things in the same slot

[plush flame]

i dont think there's a default dash slot

[fleet grotto]

you know what i mean

[plush flame]

tldr; the same philosophy would need to be applied to hooks if this was an actual problem

[fleet grotto]

i really just can't agree

but whatever i don't think that matters

[hazy nacelle]

both have their own limitations but hooks are more universally applicable when you have a good enough arena

[plush flame]

hell i'd even call soc actively detrimental 95% of the time considering that it cucks you out of being able to escape because your dash poisoned brain tries to press the get out of jail free button

[hazy nacelle]

really the main use of a dash early game is the instant hermes boots which is like literally not what the dash is supposed to be

[plush flame]

a better critique would be that default dash makes magiluminesence and other traction redundant

[hazy nacelle]

well, the default move speed increase already does that a lot

many move speed increases are less effective

[misty lichen]

game was built around hooks always existing game was not built around dashes always existing

like literally since the beginning hooks existed they aren’t even a like 1.1 thing

[obsidian nova]

I wanted to ask who made your icon?

[novel belfry]

Okay that is just a YOU problem if that happens

[crude geode]

I can see this far more than the other criticism

[humble scarab]

soc is nice but for most of the times, you dont need it at all

and like jesus said, hooks exists

[crude geode]

Jesus did say that, it’s in the Bible

[humble scarab]

i use hooks a lot for movement and they are enough for suddent movement change with speed boost

[obsidian nova]

Grok is this true

[humble scarab]

i can agree that default dash is strong but with other movement options, you barely get higher value from it xd

and most go for shield anyways

its just another option for pros to use

i dont really see casual player abusing default dash

[drowsy plank]

@fleet grotto ur suggestion literally has "nerf" in the title this goes in #1178515062030348308

[fleet grotto]

i thought that was for items

[drowsy plank]

i mean ive asked people to redirect boss stuff there too
in general i think "nerf/buff" stuff fits better in there anyway

idk id need to talk more with the devs that actually still make use of the form to be sure

[hollow shell]

I also do not know if it would belong there

[golden sonnet]

If it's about stats then go in balance forum yes

If the item is weak/strong due to its very core identity, then go here as it's a suggestion for a rework with the basis of balance, rather than a balance suggestion

For example, current old Lord claymore is far too powerful as a movement and immunity tool, this could be fixed with a suggestion in the balance forum about immunity frame numbers or velocity numbers, but would be best addressed with a suggestion here to rework the item

[drowsy plank]

fair enough

[golden sonnet]

Hopefully that makes sense

[indigo yacht]

debuff suggestion is funny and probably considered an srs but who cares

i dont want to nerf default dash because i think it is fun

[indigo yacht]

pretty much is

anyways default dash has enough of a skill requirement that I don't think nerfing it is a big deal

sure when you get that small amount of skill it trivializes half the game but it takes a modicum of effort to achieve

but dash accessories are already super overcentralized if you make default dash too weak then they'll just reclaim the only niche they couldn't touch prior

[fossil finch]

Remove the default dash imo

It's fabsolian in nature and its one purpose can be achieved by a hook, we believe that limitation is valuable

We don't think you should be handed instant acceleration just because

[dense locust]

I dont see what benefit removing it has ngl

[prisma sedge]

Personally, I think it makes sense in a mod that puts more attention toward dashes

[dense locust]

soc goes back to being used by 80% of players
this is a net negative

[fossil finch]

Soc is probably already being used by 80% of players because most people don't really look into the specific benefits of soc vs default dash

They just assume it's better

[dense locust]

its not
I have spent enough time in harp to know that for a fact

[drowsy plank]

movement abilities that are inate to the player are actually a good thing because it allows you to design for more complexity in fights without needing to rely on a centralizing set of equipment imo. like you almost HAVE to run boots, double jump, and then SoC if default died which is literally 3/5th of ur slots in pre-hm

[dense locust]

soc is not common

[fossil finch]

Yeah but would most people even realize that

[glass arch]

yeah so assuming 80% of players already use it congrats you fixed literally nothing by removing default dash

[fossil finch]

we don't think you fixed anything by adding it either

[drowsy plank]

people complain about ram dashes being centralizing but SoC was just assumed for so fuckin long

[fossil finch]

U can do instant accels with hooks

[dense locust]

it enables dash boosting accessories to actually like, function without a second accessory

[glass arch]

true yeah if we want to point at the overcentralizing accessories in current yeah sure its rams but before rams were so centric its just soc

[fossil finch]

that's definitely a pro but we don't believe it to be very valuable on its own, calamity only adds like 2 so far anyway and they are a little niche

[glass arch]

in vanilla for most players im pretty sure as soon as they get soc it literally never leaves their accessories its just a dead slot

[fossil finch]

we don't consider accessory centralization too much of an important issue because it's inherited from vanilla

[drowsy plank]

you also make turn arounds more accessible and intuitive to players, especially newer ones because most people are not going to realize you can do fast turn arounds with hooks if they just came off even a classic difficulty run from vanilla. making the movement option more accessible to these types of people will allow for the higher difficulties to design more complex fights without needing to assuming EoC OR hooks are being used for a dash ability. it'd be like if hollow knight had to design around you have the mothwing cloak OR the monarch wings

[glass arch]

it is still an issue even if vanilla has it

[fossil finch]

Our problems with rams come from the fact the rams accs r too strong and not really the fact you'll always have it

[prisma sedge]

Personally why I'm glad that I'm just bad at using dashes, I haven't used SoC in years

[dense locust]

also saying "hooks do the same thing" is incredibly reductive considering how different the 2 move you
hooks do so many things beyond "giving you quick turning", things you dont necessarily want every time you do it

default dash yharon is not something you can just replicate with a weird arena and hooks
the mechanics are too fundementally different

[glass arch]

an inherited issue is still an issue, it being inherited doesnt change that fact

[fossil finch]

Yeah but it means calamity isn't at fault

[grim tusk]

aint rams nerfed next patch

[drowsy plank]

yes

[glass arch]

yes

[grim tusk]

also I agree default dash is too strong

[glass arch]

not enough to move them out of meta iirc but still nerfed

[fossil finch]

and with that it means calamity doesn't like, Have To fix it or that it would be like, Worth It to do so, even if those two things are very arbitrarily valued

[drowsy plank]

i think it's worth it

[grim tusk]

makes Magiluminecese and other acceleration bonuses irrelevant

[dense locust]

4 blocks -> 3
its so shrimple

[drowsy plank]

the problem is already solved and it's working perfectly fine

[glass arch]

i think its worth it

[fossil finch]

We in general think the less calamity messes with vanilla the better but that's our opinion

[dense locust]

magi is not irrelivent what

[grim tusk]

yea magi has other relevant boosts

but the acceleration part is irrelevant since you can just dash and reach top speed

[glass arch]

shade

most accel boosts already arent the reason you're using the accessory

and if they are the reason you're using it its because those accel boosts are vertical accel boosts not horizontal

and default dash distinctly doesnt do shit for vertical

[dense locust]

reminder that nobody gave a shit about quick before cal made it give top speed to wings/boots

[indigo yacht]

people just be calling anything they dislike fabsolian

[drowsy plank]

i miss quick being useful...

why is everyone so afraid of a mod actually making modifications to the game

like sure calamity's current boss design and powerlevel is, frankly, kind of stupid, and there's a reason we call it fabsolian but like im 90% sure there's an innate dash in starlight river too that you don't get from gear and ive never seen anyone complain about that one

[frail fox]

8% quick 💔

[drowsy plank]

it's a consumable perma-powerup but it's also like way fucking stronger too

[dense locust]

fargos also gives you an innate dash its just fucked up and evil

[fossil finch]

It is fabsolian lol

[drowsy plank]

it does? i actually dont remember that one

[dense locust]

deerclops drop
gives an innate dash but you can get frozen if you get hit or some dumb shit like that

[indigo yacht]

bold thing to assert considering that word literally has no definition

just a connotation

[fossil finch]

moved the goalpost

[glass arch]

bold thing to assert considering its not even fabsols design or ripped from another game like fabsol did

[fossil finch]

The connotation is the definition

this is also like irrelevant why r we talking about this

[drowsy plank]

this argument is stupid can we just talk about default dash on its own merits

[indigo yacht]

no lets keep calling it fabsolian

sorry

[drowsy plank]

found it
https://fargosmods.wiki.gg/wiki/Deer_Sinew

[fossil finch]

It does have infinitely more distance than the default dash

[drowsy plank]

also found the SLR one
https://starlightrivermod.wiki.gg/wiki/Forbidden_Winds

[fossil finch]

Yeah but this one uses up a resource bar

It's also not good

For like bossfights and shit

other than ceiros ofc

[drowsy plank]

from what i remember doesn't it basically have the same distance as a balloon jump?

[indigo yacht]

i feel like dashes give a pretty notable advantage
and there's a certain level of dash-centric design you can put into a boss fight to reduce that advantage

but then the problem is without a baseline you make not having a dash item an active detriment and I'd like to minimize the accessories that applies to

[fossil finch]

We think so? It goes pretty far which is why we say it's non desirable as you don't have control over it

[drowsy plank]

wdym you dont have control over it

[dense locust]

??
breaking news dashes all suck because they go a longer distance than 2 blocks

[fossil finch]

? Not what we said

[dense locust]

youre right its not

[fossil finch]

A normal dash still lets you move around this one locks you into the motion

[drowsy plank]

i wouldnt call godslayer dash bad just because it locks you in a direction

and this is in prehardmode

i feel like it'd be pretty good against most expert mode vanilla bosses

[fossil finch]

For running away sure

For what we tend to use dashes in calamity we'd say no

[dense locust]

gsd would be terrible if it didnt give iframes lets be real

[fossil finch]

Gsd also doesn't have like a windup

[dense locust]

anyway the notion that default dash is "too strong" is kinda weird to me
like I fail to see the argument
and if thats not the argument being made then I dont see what the argument is to begin with other than "vanilla changes bad" which I dont agree with for a multitude of reasons

[fossil finch]

we're not the ones arguing it is too strong we dont care about that

[dense locust]

then what are you arguing on grounds of

because thats kind of important

[sly nacelle]

Mahoraga summon when?

[drowsy plank]

return of the lame ass mahoraga summon guy

[vague bramble]

How would that even work in this game

[drowsy plank]

please dont start the Mahoraga discussion again it was just as unproductive two years ago as it would be now 😭

[sly nacelle]

Okay so getting hit by a status effect reduces its duration until it reaches zero its like a defensive summon for the attacks it could just be punches

[vague bramble]

Just seems overpowered and not really smt you could pull off well

[crude geode]

^

[prisma sedge]

Could I ask for some context, at least? I'm out of the loop

[drowsy plank]

#suggestions-discussion message

[half imp]

@polar bison this is already happening in 2.1

@fleet grotto do you have suggestions on how to nerf it? It's kinda at the bare minimum a dash can be without costing a resource or giving dashing a downside

I guess longer cooldown

Don't really need to include in the suggestion I just was wondering what you had in mind

[fleet grotto]

mostly the cooldown, yeah

im not sure how else it could even be done if it's already like the bare minimum

[surreal pebble]

Is the dash even that strong? Sure it gives you acceleration so it's nice combined with bundle of horseshoe balloons but eye isn't that far into the game and strictly for the defense it's better than most early game accessories

[half imp]

Yes

[fleet grotto]

it is very powerful

[half imp]

It's very strong

[fleet grotto]

instant acceleration is. kinda dumb

[half imp]

I wish it didn't exist mostly but I get why it does

[surreal pebble]

I'll be honest with you I've only ever used it for exploring early game because I can get momentum on the turn around in caves i immediately go for eye as my first boss for the shield

[fleet grotto]

I think maybe making it have a bit of distance besides the acceleration would be a good "tradeoff" of sorts? that would naturally give it a longer cooldown, but would also make it more similar to shield of cthulhu and other such dashes (but worse) and maybe more desirable to players who want that out of a dash? which i think would be a good thing

[polar bison]

oh? to what extent?

Like I know some are getting changed but a few I'm iffy on wether you guys would do

[oblique birch]

what would Fish Alert debuff being Water type even do

[polar bison]

flavor really

if there were ever a means for the resistance system to apply to the player maybe just increase or decrease the detection range?

but in all reality it would mostly be flavor

[hazy nacelle]

flavor you literally can't see

[errant wren]

but you can taste it

[oblique birch]

🐟

[errant wren]

kiri i'm still blind i need financial compensation

[bold island]

https://terraria.wiki.gg/images/Grappling_Hook_(demo).gif

[humble scarab]

hooks my belowed

[bold island]

I don't think having no dash should be situationally better than having a dash.
this is my opinion, but this is movement creep. you should never be disadvantaged for not having a dash, since dashes take up a non-dedicated accessory slot in exchange for their near infinite utility. as of current, every dash accessory is a regular ass accessory with a dash attached, because it is unreasonably costly to lose an accessory slot for a dash, and at the same time it is a necessity due to how things are balanced.

it is so expected to have a dash that there is a dedicated utility item to make gameplay less annoying outside of combat by disabling the ability to accidentally activate them -- this is a flaw, in my opinion. since we cannot outright remove this feature, i strongly think that the simplest, most basic, and least intrusive dash should still be entirely viable and not necessitate an upgrade. i think there should be situations where having a dedicated dash is a less wise choice than choosing to go default, even though the cooldown behavior is (currently) a bug

not even counting opportunity cost (using an accessory slot on a dash vs freeing up an accessory slot by not using a dash)
this is kind of a wing-type issue. like wings, i really don't believe that dashes should dominate player agency in this way and require giving up a slot. unlike wings, the better dashes don't really have workable alternatives. having a good ram dash kind of just makes most bosses, especially hardmode and post-moonlord ones, easier, in general. this is sort of hard to account for and i think i'd prefer it if the default dash was a series of permanent upgrades and you didn't start with it

[fossil finch]

😌

[craggy girder]

is this SIS

flurrystorm is a donor item iirc, so it having ANOTHER upgrade wouldnt make sense anyhow

[indigo yacht]

not really it just has no reasoning

[plush flame]

yeah flurrystorm is donor

also yeah it kinda is SIS

[craggy girder]

it specifically asks for an upgrade for a specific set of items without good reason

[plush flame]

"set"

(two weapons)

[craggy girder]

i mean yea i wouldnt complain about even MORE snowballs but also like

insert gif of spriter hell

[craggy girder]

a set is any amount of items that is higher than 1

[fleet grotto]

I think logic could be applied from calamity expanding upon a similar weapon (star cannon)

[craggy girder]

flare gun > spectralstorm
star cannon > starmada (? whichever its name is)
snowball > flurrystorm

[fleet grotto]

please give me darts

[craggy girder]

no dart players will starve actually

no new darts!

you starve!

[dense locust]

darts are hell to balance or something because 90% of the weapon power is in the ammo

[plush flame]

star cannon -> super star shooter -> starfleet -> starmada or starmageddon

[craggy girder]

yea

[craggy girder]

uelibloom dart that spawns more darts as it flies :D

bloodstone dart that just explodes

[plush flame]

spectralstorm is 3

[craggy girder]

yea

i didnt count the mid stages

[plush flame]

flurrystorm is 2 with one of them being donor

[craggy girder]

because all of starmageddons stuff have the word "star"

[drowsy plank]

@errant wind on top of flurry being a donor weapon as previously mentioned, this just doesnt really have much reasoning? why does flurrystorm need an upgrade as opposed to any other niche ranged weapon? jack o lantern launcher? stake launcher? candy corn rifle? why does flurry need another upgrade? flurry wasnt a calamity idea at its core, someone donated to add it, so what makes snowball launchers so special they should get another upgrade?

you're just saying it should get another because one already exists but you can say that for almost any weapon

[errant wind]

Yk what fair

[craggy girder]

gotta ask; how broad can i be with a suggestion
i presume saying “calamity doesnt have enough cool things, it should have more” wouldnt be allowed, but “i wanna see the hadarian also drop a weapon” would also not be allowed

[novel belfry]

now that you say it, i think the hadarian should drop a unique weapon

[drowsy plank]

well, you could say something like... okay here;

Give Hadarians A Weapon Drop
Hadarians should be givena weapon drop because the rest of the Astral enemies get unique weapon drops after Aureus is defeated, but Hadarians do not. In order to be consistent with the rest of the Astral enemies, Haradians should be given a weapon.

Of course, this is wrong, because their wings are their post Aureus drop

but you get the idea

[craggy girder]

well yea but thats like very specific

[drowsy plank]

you just need to explain it in terms of fixing an inconsistency or missing niche

[craggy girder]

how unspecific can i get with a suggestion

[drowsy plank]

ohhhhh

[novel belfry]

how useful is hadarian wings because ive never actually bothered to use it

[craggy girder]

i've heard they're decent

[drowsy plank]

as long as it's addressing an issue you can basically be as vague as you want

it just means people prolly wont vote for it

[craggy girder]

thank you painting is too small and i cant see the devs properly

[drowsy plank]

that's actually pretty specific and also fine

[craggy girder]

i think half of the suggestions that get rejected do this thing called "kill all spriters"

but any suggestions that are just stat buffs are hard to like. properly comprehend

like increasing the DoT of a debuff WOULD make sense (progressionwise)

but also how would you notice this

[glass arch]

yes one of the main reasons a suggestion doesnt get in is spriter hell

[craggy girder]

just let the people sprite it
it'll be okay

[plush flame]

surely

[craggy girder]

i mean tbh

having calamity players sprite things is a learning experience in "this shit hard"

[plush flame]

aquatic scourge's sprite was from the suggester iirc and its held up decently

[craggy girder]

man we have sand scourge and water scourge

[drowsy plank]

if people want to send sprites with their suggestions by all means, you just need to explain it more as a proof of concept than anything, and be prepared for it to be rejected or scrapped entirely, assuming the suggestion even gets accepted

[craggy girder]

wheres fire scourge and air scourge

[glass arch]

i mean

seeing the health of something going down faster

[craggy girder]

yea but like

without major difference, no ones seeing htat

like changing a weapon specific dot from 50/s to 250/s, yea you'd see that

[glass arch]

the issue isnt with noticing it the issue is with how making it massively noticeable essentially just adds another weapon to what you're using

[craggy girder]

yea

[fleet grotto]

they have like one of the fastest flight speeds preml

and with aero stone plus tap fly hover you can get infinite flight i believe? though only horizontally

theyre probably like better aureate booster

[novel belfry]

wanted to ask that question because i know if i just bluntly said "I think hadarian wings are a worthless drop", im going to get a bunch of people justifiably ranting to me why thats extremely wrong

[craggy girder]

arent most of the other aureus weapons kinda doodoo

or just being vastly outperformed

i mean this wouldnt be awful?

retiering cryogen to be post mech 3 (like AS is kinda post mech 1 and brimmy post mech 2

would be neat? maybe?

but idk having two ramdashes at very similar times

[mystic sandal]

I think ideally all 3 should be pre mech

[craggy girder]

eh

[mystic sandal]

But I get why brimmy is post mech 1

[craggy girder]

brimmy is vaguely post mech 2 and as is quite easy so its post mech 1

unofficially

but yea i do agree cryonic ore just existing could trip up a buncha people

its like chlorophyte

[mystic sandal]

Yeah and Chlorophyte already sucks

[hazy nacelle]

unlocking but not actually unlocking cryonic ore is so weird

[craggy girder]

true

[mystic sandal]

But like it has the spreading mechanic so, I guess I can get the logic behind spawning it post wof

even though you could just do the demon altar thing and spawn a lot of ore at once instead of spawning a little spreading ore

[craggy girder]

no more mud

all chlorophyte

[hazy nacelle]

well it stops spreading when there's too much around

[mystic sandal]

I’m surprised that’s not a secret seed tbh

Chlorophyte growth rate boosted by 10000%

[craggy girder]

"i HATE you. DIE." seed

makes the entire game just worse

[mystic sandal]

So gfb

[craggy girder]

no that makes it more difficult

traps now shoot lasers and cannot run out of ammo (like boulders)

all calamity ais (if they're a vanilla ai reskinned) do their ai nine times as fast

chlorophyte inflicts plague on contact and grows viciously in prehardmode

that kinda idea

[mystic sandal]

Exodium clusters now fall like fallen stars and hurt the player

[craggy girder]

yes

exactly

lava now inflicts ever single flame debuff you can naturally acquire at that stage of the game

[mystic sandal]

Cryogen is unchanged because that boss was already made with hate within its heart

[craggy girder]

(scales with progression)

[craggy girder]

cryogen constnantly beyblades and shoots a flurry of projectiles behind and where it's "looking"

[gilded citrus]

Suggestions discussion

[craggy girder]

supreme calamitas is replaced with the old sprite of DoG's head, with all skulls being the big brimbursts and all darts being skulls that move at no speed

[craggy girder]

see this is technically a suggestion idea

but it just sucks

[hazy nacelle]

speaking of perennial ore, that feels so superfluous because why couldn't all the stuff be crafted with living shards that Plantera also drops, just adding an extra ore at a point where you are swimming in different ores

[mystic sandal]

I get why perennial is there, if anything I’d remove living shards but I’m also good with them

[hazy nacelle]

yeah I get that too, materials as boss drops is annoying

[glass arch]

jungle ore that generates literally everywhere except for the jungle

[mystic sandal]

Ok that is really stupid

Why doesn’t it generate in the jungle

[glass arch]

chlorophyte

jungle ore that only generates in the jungle

[errant wren]

i would've said something but it's probably a terrible idea

[mystic sandal]

If it sounds like a terrible idea that either means it’s terrible or literally the best thing you could suggest

[river lily]

#suggestions-voting message

[mystic sandal]

So like, one way to find out

[river lily]

good suggestion thank u fishwoman

[errant wren]

i was gonna say remove living shards as a plantera drop but keep them and make them craftable with chlorophyte and perennial at an autohammer

awful idea in my opinion

[river lily]

living shards r dying anyways 🐟

eventually ..

[prisma sedge]

Eventuallytm

[river lily]

eventually ™™

[frail fox]

All problems will be solved in 2034

[river lily]

wtf why double trademark

double legal protection

[errant wren]

eventually™™™

i trademarked the trademarked trademark

[prisma sedge]

Actually wait, is there a way to type the trademark symbol without copy-pasting it from somewhere else?

[river lily]

yeah

just do it like an emoji

tm inbetween two :

[prisma sedge]

™

[errant wren]

probably the alt+- oh

[prisma sedge]

Huh!

™eventually™

[errant wren]

actually

is autohammer only used for shroomite or was there an update that i never heard of that added more recipes that need it

[prisma sedge]

Well there's the mininuke I and mininuke II

[hazy nacelle]

shroomite bar, mini nuke 1 and 2

[sleek turret]

ya

[errant wren]

ah

[mystic sandal]

New suggestion: rename the auto hammer to something cooler like the LV Bending Machine

It should be able to craft 1 ingot into 1 plate, using 1 amp of LV power

[errant wren]

i was gonna say to move the recipes to spectre and perennial bars to the autohammer

i have no reasoning for it

[mystic sandal]

Nah there is reason, give the truffle a purpose to exist for non-rangers

[errant wren]

create "beetle bars" for melee specifically

[drowsy plank]

lmao

[mystic sandal]

Sounds like ccr

[drowsy plank]

honestly it'd be neat if autohammer was like a post-golem crafting station but then you get ancient manipulator post-cultist the tier after so

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[errant wren]

that was mostly my concern

[mystic sandal]

More crafting stations is cool as long as they’re not a furniture glup shitto

ANCIENT ALTAR

[errant wren]

what if we add a required boss in between golem and cultist

[mystic sandal]

Retier Ravager rematch to be immediately after Ravager

[errant wren]

someone please take my internet access away

[mystic sandal]

Truth Fishron?

[drowsy plank]

honestly there could probably be some kinda of brimstone altar a la SCal for like summoning brimmy that also lets you craft at it which i think SCal altar also does

[mystic sandal]

More non-item summoning methods is always nice

I mean altars are items but ykwim

It’s not pressing button and having Glibbogleeb, the Tainted appear from the upper left corner of your screen

[fossil finch]

first time we completely agree with a suggestion in ages

[hazy nacelle]

actually discoverable summons are always better than summon items you literally need outside knowledge for

[errant wren]

structure in the crags with the altar where you place the charred idol

[mystic sandal]

This is why wof is genius

One way or another you’re gonna find out he exists

[fossil finch]

vanilla basically lets you stumble intoe very boss

[mystic sandal]

Except for duke

[crude geode]

Which is fine bc he’s basically bonus anyways

[craggy girder]

see this is why you blackout the screen

[fossil finch]

duke is very much stumbleable

[craggy girder]

and make em move towards you

[hazy nacelle]

duke takes a bit more effort but a curious player will find him eventually

[craggy girder]

i should be able to walk into an area, see a cool thing, and want to figure out how to open it

insteada needing to research how to open it

[craggy girder]

NO clue if this was said already

checked; it doesnt seem to be, or the votes just never went through

i think its okay

[keen zodiac]

@craggy girder statis' blessing renamed to sentinel's blessing in sso

[crude geode]

classic

[keen zodiac]

same probably applies for curse

[craggy girder]

awesomesauce

i presume the sentinel in question is braelor here or

[keen zodiac]

idk

[craggy girder]

radical

[grim tusk]

iirc one of the 2 are dying

on summoner rework

[drowsy plank]

@sharp wave @agile owl i believe both of these are already in changelogs

[sharp wave]

you mean it's going to be changed?

or that it already was

cuz if it was, they need a much much bigger nerf

[sharp wave]

i cannot find anything about the fireball attack in #changelogs

[drowsy plank]

golem has been extensively reworked

[drowsy plank]

going to be changed next update

golem being shit is well known

[sharp wave]

when is the release date, i just cant see myself beating it

[drowsy plank]

there is no release date

regardless your suggestion is redundant because the fight has already been changed for the next actual update

when that happens is unknown though

[sharp wave]

okay thanks

[serene tendon]

As in he's too hard?

[drowsy plank]

yeah and also just not fun

you can have a hard boss be fun

golem is neither

fun nor well made i mean

[serene tendon]

Eh, I'm not sure I would call it that, though it is certainly a strange difficulty spike. What in particular do you think is the culprit?

[keen zodiac]

@lost spire calamity is trying to move away from universal armors

also there will be a unique post golem rogue set eventually

[lost spire]

Rogue doesn't really need post-Golem options, it needs an early hardmode set that can be used by more than half the class.

Ore headsets would at least be a temporary fix (and "add five rogue sets" isn't allowed by the channel rules).

[keen zodiac]

oh also your suggestion is way too long

1000 character limit

[lost spire]

ah

ty

[barren thistle]

@drowsy plank yo

mb for spam in all the channels

this kid called me f slur

and hard r

allat

[drowsy plank]

also tf u mean rogue is weak i mean it's been a minute since i check the standings but isn't it like, summoner, melee, rogue or ranger or something

[drowsy plank]

go to @sonic torrent

[barren thistle]

oi mate lets play

fr

[barren thistle]

nah idc

[keen zodiac]

if you keep spamming in channels you'll get banned

[drowsy plank]

they're already getting banned i just timed them out after they started talking here

[keen zodiac]

anyway uhhhh

rogue armor

need to look at titan heart set bonus

[prisma sedge]

Yeesh, 400 characters over the limit...I wish them luck slimming that down

[fleet grotto]

Justification being that rogue is weak is just wrong lmao

[keen zodiac]

ok titan heart doesn't punish you for spamming

it just doesn't do anything in particular

[fleet grotto]

It just has slower attack speed doesn't it

[keen zodiac]

i do agree early hardmode rogue armor is lacking, but i don't think ore armors are the solution

[fleet grotto]

Oh

[prisma sedge]

At least Rogue in early to mid-hardmode
You can't convince me that rogue at that stage is weak when Kelvin Catalyst exists

[crude geode]

Double knockback is truly one of the effects of all time

[keen zodiac]

tbh retier daedalus to post 1 mech

[prisma sedge]

Granted, that's a weapon and not armor, but like...it doesn't need much more than what you can get at that stage right now

[lost spire]

One weapon being overtuned (and probably due for a nerf) doesn't make the class balanced

[keen zodiac]

nobody's saying rogue is balanced

[fleet grotto]

Okay but there's also like ... 7 other amazing weapons

[keen zodiac]

in fact it's very unbalanced

it's way too good

[prisma sedge]

Oh of course, it is way unbalanced, it just shows that the class isn't exactly unviable at that point in the game

[drowsy plank]

look at this shit and tell me rogue is not busted (everything in red is rogue)

[crude geode]

Slick Cane being SS is always so funny to me

[keen zodiac]

it should be SSS

with hellborn and gend

[prisma sedge]

Yeah, I'm not at all surprised that it's SS
It has a sharp cutoff point where it stops being helpful, but I think it was my primary weapon from the beginning of hardmode to like...Lunatic Cultist, it's kind of insane

[crude geode]

“Sharp cutoff point” being LC is still way too deranged

[prisma sedge]

Sharp as in it becomes significantly less useful in that fight than it is in any other, I think in large part because LC is a small target and moves around a lot

Otherwise, it melts through everything

[lost spire]

do you have a link to that?
haven't seen it before

[drowsy plank]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10bgBHu7apfftITBOQVJrtYCiakZVGC4reJcvfJqMBEM/edit?usp=sharing

im pretty sure it's pinned... somewhere

[grim tusk]

rogue is literally the 2nd strongest class, however it has the issue of not being too intuitive and having a higher skill floor due to resource management, acc + weapon combos (as accessories interact differently depending on weapons) and knowledge (need to learn how weapons and accessories work)

[grim tusk]

almost like it needs a rework

[drowsy plank]

im sure we will get focus rogue any day now

[fleet grotto]

-# lower skill floor

[grim tusk]

after they deal with the elefant in the room (summoner)

[prisma sedge]

This is fair, but in my experience, a lot of the struggle just comes with being patient
If you have a weapon with a decent stealth attack, it's just a matter of making your shots when it counts instead of getting too hasty and wasting potential damage

[grim tusk]

I could attempt project CROW but nah, imma wait til next year to see what happens with Cal dev stuff (might return)

I dont wanna throw the ideas that didnt make it in into the gutter so a mod to preserve em would be nice

[grim tusk]

indeed

[prisma sedge]

Question: what's project CROW?

[grim tusk]

thats one issue with it

[prisma sedge]

Like I'd assume something Rogue based, but what does it mean?

[grim tusk]

Calamity Rogue Overhaul & Weapons
(i needed a W for the acronym)

[keen zodiac]

goated name

[grim tusk]

potential project if Cal takes too long to update

[prisma sedge]

Ooh, niiice

[grim tusk]

imma wait til next year and see if I dont get busy with other stuff

if I have a bunch of free time I could just rework rogue in a separate mod

like Calamity Ranger Expansion

or Unofficial Calamity Whips

[keen zodiac]

doze weapn overhal...

[grim tusk]

I imagine the god awful IL edits I'll need to edit accessories and weapons

speaking of whips, there is yet another calamity whips mod on the front page

THEY STOLE MY ROPE WHIP IDEA MFERS

[drowsy plank]

one other than Unofficial Cal Whips?

[indigo yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-cro-crow-team-crow-hello-animal-gif-7086727397455856012

nuh uh

[grim tusk]

Calamity Simple Whip Addon

[misty lichen]

REMEMBER: this became like this because testers tested every weapon with titan heart armor which has terrible offensive stats

[drowsy plank]

lol

[misty lichen]

which then meant they had to overbuff most of their non stealth strikes

[drowsy plank]

im ngl most of these aren't even around mech tier

[misty lichen]

so this makes the suggestion way more valid if anything

[drowsy plank]

like half of those are preHardmode

[misty lichen]

had to way zoom out to get all of mech tier but you see the trend

everything is A or S except like 4 weapons

[drowsy plank]

damn

fair, valid point

[glass arch]

rogue above melee and ranged

[dire warren]

where crow mauler

[grim tusk]

actually a W makes sense since im also adding scrapped weapons:
Night’s wish (pre-boss weapon)
My dev weapon (name should be around there somewhere)
Utensil Poker upgrade

to name a few

[frail fox]

Great tier truly

[dense locust]

almost as good as post skeletron

[frail fox]

and pre-skeletron

[indigo yacht]

i agree with this suggestion but I'm not sure about the reasoning

[dense locust]

I'm kinda torn
part of me kinda likes the manip dependancy but I also get why people dont

theres already a ton of rewards for doing deus early, deus's drops are more than enough to tear through most of hardmode, I dont really think getting an armor set and deific on top of that is really that important

[glass arch]

i think it would be good to move it away from that because thats one step closer to deus not being same tier as pillars

[drowsy plank]

move deus after moon lord 🙏

[boreal lichen]

🙏

[errant wren]

you misspelled remove

to be honest i do just kinda forget deus is there

[drowsy plank]

no he can be reworked into something that isnt a worm and there is zero post-ml astral content

deus being dewormed and post-ml would be a good thing

[half imp]

ok but what if he was a good worm

[drowsy plank]

we have desert scourge, eater of worlds, aquatic scourge, destroyer, storm weaver, devourer of gods, thanatos, and, arguably, perferators

i wouldnt mind one less worm

[half imp]

ok but we have more bosses that aren't worms than are smh

[tepid crown]

wat if

we made the worms no longer worms

but we made the non worms, worms

[boreal lichen]

horrible

you should be jailed

[fleet grotto]

I disagree

Early deus still unlocks literally every ore in hardmode besides Cryonic

[fossil finch]

Make deus into a ceiruslike

Ceiros

[craggy girder]

i mean we already have aureus for the hardmode astral infection guy
post ml deus could be the moon lord astralinfection guy

[tiny minnow]

That sounds like a mod pack waiting to happen.

[lost spire]

duke eelron would be peak

[frail mantle]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2995167605

boss swap is literally that

[fleet grotto]

he also sometimes doesn't roar at all!

[undone vessel]

Yeah he doesn't roar for slow charges iirc

[indigo yacht]

i feel like this isn't something that happens but if it is then good suggestion

[grave zinc]

@kind laurel - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Rework Badge of Bravery to be Multiclass]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@novel belfry - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Buff Calamity Crate pools]

It has been reviewed by the devs, and for one reason or another they decided it would be best not to implement it.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[urban berry]

Hey look! My suggestion on 779 is added!

I still find it funny how I made the suggestion because I like suffering and I honestly wanna give myself more challenging bosses (i wanna see how many turrets would be fun to dodge against scal)

[grave zinc]

@kind laurel - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Rework Badge of Bravery to be Multiclass]

It has been voted upon, and the devs decided it would be a good idea to implement it. This doesn't guarantee implementation, as plans may change/alternate plans may be made, but it does highly improve chances!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[humble scarab]

yes suggestion bot, we know it will be reworked

[craggy girder]

say it again suggestion bot

[plush flame]

hey aster your suggestion received the voted upon and decided it was a good idea status

[mystic sandal]

hey aster your suggestion was voted on and WE FUCKING HATE IT DIE I FUCKING HATE YOU

[half imp]

??? we literally did buff crates

[grave zinc]

@novel belfry - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Buff Calamity Crate pools]

It has officially been implemented into the game, and will be available in the next update!
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[half imp]

there

[crude geode]

Suggestion bot just lying now, Wild

[prisma sedge]

How did it even decide that it was denied?

[ripe owl]

The same way it decided that Aster's suggestion should get accepted twice

Simply machines being badchines

[half imp]

Because the votes had it as denied

it was not the bots fault

it was that we just never marked it as done

[prisma sedge]

Ohhh pbff

[novel belfry]

yeah i was just confused about that

that was... HUH?

i literally saw several discussions from devs saying, "Yeah we agree, we went goofed up and will try to buff the crate pools so they wont be literal dogwater whilst still not being overpowered"

[kind laurel]

[mystic sandal]

WERE GONNA KILL YOU

[boreal lichen]

sad

[golden sonnet]

I can ban them for death threats.

[gaunt crystal]

@jade crane that's gonna change soon if the retiering plans go through

there's talk about swapping slime god and calclone in progression

[jade crane]

Oh shoot, I did not realize that

[gaunt crystal]

dw

the plans both aren't final and aren't talked about much

[jade crane]

If there are potential plans of swapping around these bosses, then forget my suggestion

[gaunt crystal]

but uh

the lore thing is being changed too

iirc the queen slime is going to be a rogue paladin if the swap is made

[jade crane]

That’s pretty neat

If that does happen, hopefully there would be some indication it’s related to the slime god besides some text

[craggy girder]

just realized that if this goes through, i dont have to use deep diver for my ramdash

praying so hard for it

[surreal pebble]

I mean if it goes through they might change the recipe so it's stays where it should

[craggy girder]

No.

i might be gods strongest deep diver hater solely because of its existence

[surreal pebble]

I mean I just use counter scarf or shield of cuthulu till I can get a good ramdash. Unless you go for destroyer first it doesn't matter super early on.

[craggy girder]

i Like my ramdashes

[surreal pebble]

But if they didn't keep it where it's at what would the point of deep diver be? Most people fight cryogen immediately in hard mode. So either the retier deep diver or change the existing recipe for The ornate shield.

[craggy girder]

deep diver is a gimmick item

it dashes faster and concludes dashes faster

you’re supposed to pauldron with it

[surreal pebble]

Is pauldron busted like it is in infurnum? I'd imagine so. But even still there's really no point in being able to unlock two ram dashs at the same time In progression. Even if they do functionally different things most things are built for the common player and it doesn't make sense for there to be 2

[craggy girder]

pauldron is arguably the best pre mech accessory thats not wings

[dense locust]

"diver is a gimmick item"
the gimmick in question: pre mech ram dash but small
what about this makes this any more of a gimmick than like, sponge

[craggy girder]

^

[dense locust]

yeah how does that make it more gimmicky than sponge

[craggy girder]

no correlation???

[dense locust]

sponge is just an example of a moderately gimmicky accessory

[craggy girder]

deep diver is meant to conclude dashes really fast

sponge is 180 extra health sometimes

[dense locust]

idk I feel like the criterea for gimmick item here is just weird
the only accs I would truely call gimmicky in this game are like, regenetor and toxic heart
items that are pretty bad if you dont actively play into their gimmicks
meanwhile diver is just
a good ass accessory on its own merits

[craggy girder]

“good ass accessory”

9 tiles of dash

its not very good unless you go pauldron with it

[dense locust]

yeah no thats just not true at all

[surreal pebble]

I mean I'm sure it's a gimmick later on in progress but at this current point the reason to get it is because it's the only ramdash available at the start of hardmode. If cryonic gets re-tiered then having 2 ram dashes will make deep diver obsolete for 95% of players

[craggy girder]

yea thats the point .

one is the basic mans ramdash

[surreal pebble]

But that's bad design.

[craggy girder]

one is for shredding

[craggy girder]

ark you’re playing calamity

[dense locust]

pre mech ram dash is pre mech ram dash and its extra traits just add onto that effect
there are people who stick with it even after you unlock asgards its that good

[craggy girder]

????

name one person

i want to hear their reasoning

[dense locust]

@rotund summit

[rotund summit]

What

[craggy girder]

^

[surreal pebble]

Sure but the goal is to fix the bad designs just saying oh well the mods fault is kinda dumb

[rotund summit]

I use deep diver, i fuckin hate the other ram dashes

[craggy girder]

why so

asgards accomplishes most everything you could want from a ram

same with ornate

[rotund summit]

They take me too far and cooldown is abyssmal so you can't play aggressive and you can't chain dash without ambergris, but then why sacrafice the function of an extra slot for the same result as deep diver

[dense locust]

diver is just better than ornate I'm gonna be so real

[craggy girder]

do you use pauldron

just gotta ask

because no way in hell do you need to chain dash

without it

[rotund summit]

On destroyer

[craggy girder]

where else would you need to chain

[rotund summit]

Hyper aggressive playstyle needs to be able to chain dash on little/no reaction time

Which is the PlayStyle i have

[craggy girder]

would you, for sake of deliberation, argue that your playstyle is not like most people’s

[dire warren]

i sure prefer a more aggressive playstyle

it's in my blood

[craggy girder]

do you use deep diver post mechs 2

[dire warren]

i sure would

[rotund summit]

I never argued that, but it's a great dash

[craggy girder]

deep diver could exist for the aggressives and ornate for the defensivez

[dire warren]

or i just ignore dash until post plantera

[craggy girder]

valid actually

[dense locust]

why only post plant?

nothing really asks you to use a ram until like
cv

[dire warren]

that's when my knockback withdrawal kicks in

[dense locust]

just use hero shield smh

[dire warren]

true

[surreal pebble]

Still feels like it's fundamentally flaws to change ornate shields place in progress

[dire warren]

i recall using it in my infernum true melee run

[craggy girder]

ornate exists to be a ramdash that upgrades into a ramdash that exists to be a good ramdash

same as tons of items

[glass arch]

yeah ornate line is really only there for the express purpose of being ramdashes

[dense locust]

all divers existence proved is that ram dashes are broken and people will use them at any oppertunity
if you made an accessory that nerfed your default dash but gave it a ram at preboss people would eat that shit up

[craggy girder]

i dont personally see an issue with having two ramdashes at the same tier

[glass arch]

rams are really strong when the alternative is dodge items

[craggy girder]

both accomplish different goals and both provide different gamestyle

[craggy girder]

would you rather dodge an attack sometimes
or
dodge by pressng a button

[glass arch]

like im pretty sure in nearly all cases rams are just better than scarf dashes or ninja dashes and thats despite ninja dashes having fucking 300 extra effects duct taped to them

[dense locust]

@mpg or something

[glass arch]

scarf dashes have a bit more of their own thing going they are better than ninja dashes because they only dodge during dashes

[rotund summit]

Honestly the only boss i even like dashes on in basecal is yharon

[glass arch]

no im fully aware ninja dashes are good they would be completely gamebreaking if it werent for ramdashing

[rotund summit]

Yes

[dense locust]

eh
ninja belt is litterally just mng + frog leg for the most part
like its a strong item but completely gamebreaking is kind of overselling it

[glass arch]

ramdashes are a twofold issue, they're strong because inherently their effects are good, but then they're strong again because so much shit is designed or balanced around their existence and usage

[craggy girder]

kinda like profaned core and phanta

except phanta just sucks

[craggy girder]

like tesla potion

[dire warren]

who uses tesla potion?

[dense locust]

LOL

[rotund summit]

What is the gimmick

[craggy girder]

it concludes dashes faster

and readies dashes faster

[craggy girder]

fabsol apparently

according to two devs, most bosses are designed around them

[dense locust]

thats because they are horrendously overpowered

tesla potion completely trivializes any boss minion or regular enemy

[craggy girder]

are they op because theyre good or are they op bc bosses are based around them

[glass arch]

thats not a gimmick thats a sidegrade

a gimmick is a parry item

[rotund summit]

Yes? How's that a gimmick

I could say that Elysian Aegis' gimmick is that it has a stupid high velocity, what makes my statement any less true than yours?

[dense locust]

they are op because they single handedly invalidate anything not explicitly immune to them

[glass arch]

and also because boss minions are designed around them

[rotund summit]

Pbg for example going from like 7/10 difficulty to 3/10

[craggy girder]

elysian aegis is a sidegrade to asgards

[rotund summit]

And what makes asgard any less of a gimmick than deep diver

[glass arch]

whenever fabsol would do boss testing it was always with tesla potion on

[craggy girder]

it accomplishes the same identical goals as asgards while not being part of its tree

[dense locust]

not the word I would use but technically correct

[glass arch]

(it objectively is part of the tree it just isnt a direct upgrade)

[craggy girder]

deep diver has a poor dash length because its really really fast

[craggy girder]

thats what i meant

im tired and its nearly new yeats

[rotund summit]

And asgards has a long dash length because it's slow

[craggy girder]

wrong cause and effect

[glass arch]

anyways yeah deep diver isnt an indirect upgrade its a sidegrade

[craggy girder]

alternative option sits better

[glass arch]

no that

thats a sidegrade

serves the same purpose but does it differently

[craggy girder]

we define sidegrade differently here i think

side grade in my opinion is an upgrade to something thats not directly part of it

anyways happy new yeats

[glass arch]

in the same way that like musket and undertaker are sidegrades, one is slower but higher damage, one is faster but lower damage (in theory in practice musket is just better iirc)

[dense locust]

undertaker is actually slightly better atm by the looks of things

[rotund summit]

sidegrade is an upgrade

Fundamental misunderstanding of the term

[glass arch]

oh well same applies just in reverse

[craggy girder]

side + upgrade

[glass arch]

i mean yes

because its not upgrading

[rotund summit]

It doesn't go up

[craggy girder]

thats how i learned it lol

[glass arch]

its going sideways

[rotund summit]

Sidegrade is an alternative option for a player to achieve the same result in a different method

Think sidepath

Same thing

[craggy girder]

sidegrade is an alternative option

[rotund summit]

Yes

[craggy girder]

^^^

i just call it differently

[glass arch]

then why say it isnt a sidegrade when it objectively is

like

thats what i said in the first place

not an indirect upgrade, its a sidegrade
"alternative option sits better"
alternative option means the same thing as sidegrade

[craggy girder]

what you call sidegrade i know as alternative option

thats what it is i think

[rotund summit]

I think deepdiver is a sidegrade that progressively gets more useful the later in the game you go

[tired haven]

It's just "grade"
Like a specific tier or level

Thats how upgrade and downgrade are formed

[craggy girder]

well yea

i mentally remember it as side plus upgrade

[indigo yacht]

i prefer ornate but this is true i think

[glass arch]

@violet chasm i advise you read the rules doc pinned in this channel

[gaunt crystal]

like 99% sure they're a troll

[indigo yacht]

i cant wait to see the highly respectful and reasonable discussions surrounding this suggestion

[indigo yacht]

probably not

this is an extremely common sentiment

[gaunt crystal]

they joined today and that is their only message

[glass arch]

new user does not a troll make

[hollow shell]

Well

Using Calamity Overhaul as an example of something done well is not going to earn you much support here

as CalOverhaul is somewhat infamous and disliked

[plush flame]

cal overhaul very much does not do scaling weapons well

[glass arch]

(its specifically used as an example of something done poorly isnt it)

[plush flame]

for example

[glass arch]

oh wait no

[plush flame]

like how do you get a fucking sub 1 minute on expert rev dog on tier

[hollow shell]

Doesn't mean much without context

[plush flame]

these are the killtimes of cal overhaul's murasama

[hollow shell]

ok thank you

[dense locust]

nah but its bad on eye so its balanced

[glass arch]

they do point out how overpowered calhauls scaling is

[hollow shell]

The issue with adding a weapon that scales and gains abilities as you kill bosses is that the devs are essentially putting in the workload of adding and balancing many many new weapons spread throughout the game

[glass arch]

and also how it incentivizes never switching weapons

[hollow shell]

There is not much effective difference with adding an upgrade line
Except the reason our old Legendary Weapons (which were exactly this) were removed was because players would just be.. using the same weapon throughout an entire playthrough, making the experience rather stale and same-y

Yeah

[glass arch]

(also worth noting that your suggestion is well over the character limit which is what the 🗜️ react is there for)

[hollow shell]

Also regardless of ideological argument,
That last bit of your suggestion, where you describe an example weapon, is needless specificity and should be removed

[drowsy plank]

isnt this just a reversion

[dense locust]

no

[drowsy plank]

we had legendary weapons, they were removed for a reason

the scaling at least

community is the only one that remains bc that is its gimmick

[dense locust]

a reversion would be asking to make legendaries scale again
this is just asking for scaling weapons in general
its similar but not quite the same I'd say

[glass arch]

yeah

[grave zinc]

@obsidian nova - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add a fourth permanent mana upgrade post-Calamitas Clone/Plantera]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@kind laurel - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Change the World Icon After Beating Supreme Witch, Calamitas and the Exo Mechanical Bosses]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[indigo yacht]

i still am not sure how this counts as having reasoning but i like it so I'm glad regardless

[obsidian nova]

Epic

[prisma sedge]

Considering the conversation around this when it was posted, it's hard to expect much, but I've got high hopes for this one

[dense locust]

spriter_hell.gif

[craggy girder]

what weapon?

[plush flame]

_ _

[craggy girder]

ohh the funny sword

[craggy girder]

YESSS I NEEDED THIS GIF

[grim tusk]

fuck Calamity Overhaul

if you like its mechanics (they are all stolen from Stars Above) go play the much better Stars Above

[fleet grotto]

eat calamity overhaul

[golden sonnet]

Also the weapon scaling is just taken from old legendaries

[grim tusk]

& Stars Above

[golden sonnet]

Overhaul has like 2 original thoughts

[grim tusk]

Overhauls’s Mura is just Stars Above Mura (called The Only Thing I know for Real) and Yamato (called Bury the Light iirc) in a blender

[remote maple]

And it made it so we CANT REMOVE murasama because more people would flock to cal overhaul

[remote maple]

It is called that yes

[grim tusk]

i wonder why tf no one hit it with a DMCA in its inception

and now its too late

we had Lucille, Fab, Ozz, PaperLuigi, DiverSam and pretty sure other lead mod devs (from the mods that Overhaul stole from) that could have nuked the mod

it did steal from Thorium too right?

[drowsy plank]

wasnt it tmod that said we couldnt

[remote maple]

It’s probably a similar thought process to the creation of the us of a. They didn’t think it would be as big a problem as it ended up being.

[drowsy plank]

lucille forgave them for the code stealing too

[grim tusk]

because we took too long

[drowsy plank]

that's insane what the hell

[grim tusk]

aint stolen shaders from WotG still in Overhaul?

iirc only Infernum stuff was removed

[drowsy plank]

are they?? wtf

[golden sonnet]

I would verify that before making claims

But also wouldn't really be surprised

[remote maple]

Calamity overhaul is a parasite we can’t legally get rid of

[grim tusk]

and causes shitton of bugs

its truly the second coming of Calamity Yoyo Bag Buffed

[crude geode]

I forgot about that mod

[tepid crown]

ive wondered ever since i first heard about it but like

how did calamity yoyo bag buffed mess up

[grim tusk]

LIKE REAL FUCKING BAD

Theres a reason why the old bugs channel had DO NOT USE THAT MOD in all caps

thankfully that mod died in 1.4.1 since the port didnt even fucking load

[drowsy plank]

maybe overhaul can explode in the 1.4.5 port 😇

[grim tusk]

from what I know and experienced in the other ports, Cal and Thorium were basically Tmod’s guinea pigs and essentially used to build up Tmodporter to be as efficient as it is rn

[distant gyro]

im pretty sure that mod loads the entire projectile index so that for one of its buffed yoyo bags it shits out any projectile out of the moon

[grim tusk]

it also randomly crashed the game

sometimes while the game was saving

which went badly

[tepid crown]

?????

[distant gyro]

thats the only stupid thing that i know that mod does because its like completely inconspicuous otherwise

cus its just

Buffed Yoyo Bags

[grim tusk]

it lagged the game to hell with the last 2 bags iirc

[distant gyro]

yeah because it does THAT

and probably give yoyos stupid extra updates too but that is a complete dart board guess

im just guessing it was written badly

[golden sonnet]

I remember it could make bosses heal 50% of their health like every frame, or just one shot bosses

[grim tusk]

due to THAT

oneshotting bosses pretty sure was due to old Vehemence

that projectile was “oneshot the boss if crit” (high DR enemies needed rippers too)

[golden sonnet]

The most common ones were bosses taking or healing x amount of health per second, even when not attacking

[grim tusk]

oh right

[golden sonnet]

Which like, not sure what projectile would result in that?

Regardless the mod was fucked

[gaunt crystal]

hmmm

bot messed up the formatting

[glass arch]

nah

thats how its supposed to work

the bot never got support for discord having big titles afaik those just dont work in the bots format

[whole tundra]

@sacred slate Think twice before posting in a channel

[drowsy plank]

@sacred slate please read the rules. your post is clearly intended for #help-advice-read-pins or #calamity-addon-talk

[drowsy plank]

weak reasoning but fine ig

[boreal lichen]

isnt arc nova getting an upgrade in the next update already

[devout cosmos]

is it?

[devout cosmos]

fym weak reasoning it’s a cool weapon lol

[boreal lichen]

a weapon called ontological despoiler #spoilers message

[devout cosmos]

oh shit it gets combined with nullification pistol?

[drowsy plank]

yeah you need to actually give a reason for things to happen, suggesting something just because it's cool isn't allowed

[devout cosmos]

damn okay

[drowsy plank]

wanting another weapon in a line is fine after the rules revision, but it's not exactly the strongest reasoning

[hazy nacelle]

why does this specific thing need an upgrade and not some other thing?

[drowsy plank]

the purpose of this channel isn't to just throw out cool item ideas because there are hundreds of those and the devs will just add their own cool item ideas

the point is to point out gameplay issues outside of the scope of balance or bugs, like, you could argue there is a lack of yoyos around the DoG tier, so adding an upgrade to like, sulphurous grabber could be interesting because old duke is there and it has compelling gameplay

though pre-DoG yoyo is a bit of a meme so that idea specifically probably wouldnt pass lol

it's just an example

[indigo yacht]

"feel both challenging and rewarding to use" is basically all your suggestion has for reasoning, basically

[drowsy plank]

tbf koi already pointed out we got an upgrade anyway

[indigo yacht]

and it's not bad reasoning, just only a little

[drowsy plank]

so ill prolly flag this

[devout cosmos]

well the list of ranged weapon choices for DoG is fairly limited
only thing i found worked decently well last playthrough was Halley’s Inferno, and it only really worked because of its piercing
diffuser’s space theming could match well with something like storm weaver’s thunder theming, which while that isn’t directly pre-DoG, it’s in that same area of the game
tho with it getting combined with null pistol it’s kinda pointless for me to be explaining this anyway

[indigo yacht]

i mean if a boss is lacking viable weapons usually rebalances/reworks to existing weak weapons is prioritized over adding new ones

[devout cosmos]

fair

[drowsy plank]

there are plenty of options on that tier anyway, esp funny considering this is sevens' striker's tier

[indigo yacht]

corinth pr

[devout cosmos]

ah yes
the gambling weapon
i love throwing RNG at a worm

[devout cosmos]

i haven’t had good use out of corinth prome tbh

[indigo yacht]

i think it's the best weapon for dog on any class

[drowsy plank]

you can't argue with results

[tepid crown]

jackpot is guaranteed with plat coin,,,,

[devout cosmos]

so basically
capitalism: the gun

[fleet grotto]

calamity also makse money incredibly easy to get which tbf is a different problem on its own

[indigo yacht]

the rich get richer

[devout cosmos]

if diffuser is getting an upgrade i’ll just delete the suggestion

[craggy girder]

okay i just realized the transformer is getting made dope

thats awesome

[errant wren]

#suggestions-posting message ok so

the way this suggestion reads is that it's leaning heavily into the references

also (and i could be wrong), i think people have stated before that moab is already a really good alternative to wings?? (someone please verify this claim)

[pine umbra]

true, you can technically use it up to moon lord, but once you get like tracers, its just 90% worse since the flight time is pretty low and theyre not that fast either

[pine umbra]

also yeah, but an upgrade would make sense without a reference to base it on in my eyes, it just makes sense to use the reference again if its already used

[errant wren]

i do have to mention that there are (some) plans for moab to specifically be able to disable the "wings"

hi cog how goes the being in the machine

[drowsy plank]

@pine umbra this was recently rejected; #suggestions-voting message

[pine umbra]

i didnt scroll that far up, im sorry for wasting your time
is there a reason thiis was rejected? out of curiosity

[drowsy plank]

not that we know of

[pine umbra]

okay thanks anyway

[errant wren]

no it's fine

it would have been cool but like

"cool" isn't the best reasoning

[pine umbra]

i didnt use that

afaik

that word i mean

yeah i didnt

[errant wren]

references too

[pine umbra]

thank god i know how to code so im just gonna make this myself, thanks for you time juhbye

[half imp]

what if we just added one anyway

[pine umbra]

🤨

[dense locust]

yep thats a doze thing to say

[pine umbra]

you sound unbiased

[half imp]

true it's not like I reworked glaive into a direct btd6 functionality

[errant wren]

doze it would be really funny

[half imp]

or anything

we should add dreadbloon where you can only double jump after taking damage it'd be funny

[pine umbra]

youre the second calamity mod dev i ever met and just for liking btd6 youre now the number one

[half imp]

i have become Calamity Mod

[pine umbra]

as an alternative branch of the crafting tree or as the final upgrade

[oblique birch]

the second calamity mod

[errant wren]

doze and i are buddies (at least that's what i tell myself to make me feel better)

[pine umbra]

in the suggestion i was originall gonna add that it would make sense to have different paths for it to end up but i felt that wouldve become too long and confusing so i dropped it

[half imp]

I think I might be buddies with doze too but idk he kinda mean to me sometimes

[pine umbra]

wow if this doze guy is that mean to you i dont think i like him

[half imp]

anyway at least 2.1 gravity globe will be a double jump item

It's a very... Interesting one

But it's one

[dense locust]

this just after what you said in cut is crazy

[pine umbra]

imma go sprite and make my own one anyway, it sounds like a fun thing to do and a good way to exercise interacting with other mods in my own ones

[errant wren]

and this was the story of how ribbl became a cal dev

[pine umbra]

if that ever happens ill eat a broom

ill dissolve a broom in acid, neutralize it into water and consume that

i swear on my life that i will eat a broom

[errant wren]

mods pin that

[pine umbra]

hold me accountable if you ever see my name flashing in that beautiful section on the members list

though realistically id probably be a spriter before id ever become an actual developer

[dense locust]

mods can do something way funnier than pinning that

[pine umbra]

no

[hazy nacelle]

actually a good suggestion, item descriptions are too vague about debuffs

like this is what Wither Blossoms Staff says

Summons four decaying flowers over your head
how are you supposed to know this applies Plague, specifically

[craggy girder]

its made of plagur

[pearl sapphire]

most of the brimstone weapons say they have "brimstone" somethings (arrow, geyser, fireball, etc), but same issue. there's nothing that directly confirms "brimstone" = Fire Debuff

[craggy girder]

i do like the idea

[dense locust]

something something tooltip updates

[drowsy plank]

extended tooltips that actually explain the weapon when holding shift or smthn vs. flavor ones for a quick summary that's shown by default would be nice

[keen zodiac]

something like that is planned or at least has been talked about iirc

[oblique birch]

tooltips are being updated to give more detailed explainations about them

740 - Debuff icons now show up in tooltips when mentioned. Holding a keybind will show the buff effects.

[pearl sapphire]

oh snap, neat
if that specifies if they're a certain element, then I guess job done

[oblique birch]

it will yes

[half imp]

idek what I said in cut

[dense locust]

#calamity-update-talk message

[half imp]

lol

[upbeat tundra]

Calamity tooltips kind of have a similar problem to BTD6 tier 5 upgrades as far as being helpful for new players to understand what a weapon does.

It’s kind of a Terraria thing in general tbh. “Very fast” and the like as descriptors for use speed is insanely unhelpful.

[fossil finch]

eh we don't think anything in, at least vanilla, needs to be any more precise about its function

It's all very observable

[deep cape]

What was the suggestion post about a weird cloud boss that was a minor inside joke?

[glass arch]

do you want the full thing or do you want the above chat to be visible

[golden sonnet]

I call it......

[keen zodiac]

fogbound??

[deep cape]

Thank you

[deep cape]

Full thing

[glass arch]

and that's my idea for a boss! what do you think?``` i almost hit the discord character limit sending this

[deep cape]

Sounds like ass

[prisma sedge]

Spooky, Demented, Demonic, Hellish,

and

Evil

[golden sonnet]

Repeatedly harking on it does feel a bit like bullying, but it's just so peak

[prisma sedge]

You're right, but it's a goldmine

"It means he is about to blast you with a lethal 1 hit kill laser"

"This attack is avoidable, but the laser is quite large."

[oblique birch]

no... not the FogBound...

[deep cape]

I love how every new detail makes its fight sound less fun

[prisma sedge]

And how there's like...three different details that boil down to "it'll restrict you from seeing shit"

[obsidian nova]

Me when FogBound has gotten a whole spriting challenge week to itself

[mystic sandal]

Things ChatGPT could never recreate

[drowsy plank]

sure

[kind laurel]

Feels a bit more like Vanilla’s problem then Cal’s, though I don’t know exactly how many of the Vanilla changes are being reverted so maybe there’s room for another

[severe sparrow]

true
i never understood why all bosses below Skeletron dropped lesser healing pots

[drowsy plank]

presumably bc the drops are balanced around normal mode and you realistically could do skele as ur first boss there

like u gotta have the universal drops work for all modes and u might not even have full health when u could be fighting brain or smthn

is my best guess

[fossil finch]

Normal healing potions probably didn't exist when red was making eoc

[kind laurel]

I just have like two suggestions waiting for after Brainstorm because that update is so big I realistically can’t tell whether what I’m suggesting is already in there or not

[keen zodiac]

i might know

[kind laurel]

Hm
Sidegrade to Angel Treads that keeps boosting wings instead of becoming them, potentially being tinkered with Ascendant Insignia
Alt to Asgardian Aegis that acts more like Deep Diver because it’s over-centralizing

[keen zodiac]

in brainstorm there's an alcohol that makes dashes shorter

idk about the first one

idk if this is related to your thing but tracers will let you toggle the wings

[kind laurel]

Will they just be TSparks with better stats then or will they buff your other wings?

[keen zodiac]

not sure

ask doze

[kind laurel]

Anyway, I still think there should be an alt to AA that isn't Sash

Though with the Ankh Shield being removed from it I'll wait until I know the new version better so I can think of something more unique than "shorter dash" since like you said you might as well just use the alcohol

[craggy girder]

i believe so

you just dont have the wings lazily glued on

[dense locust]

and so we come full circle

[mystic sandal]

Also I didn’t say this in the post but I’m fine with harpy ring immediately getting upgraded because be honest do you use this accessory as is anyways

[dense locust]

I've used it before

flight time is nice

[mystic sandal]

But rocket boots

Or frog leg

[dense locust]

freg doesnt give flight time

[mystic sandal]

I know frog leg technically doesn’t give flight time but it’s such a massive mobility boost

Harpy Ring just sucks and you can’t really buff it because that’d buff Angel Treads, and those are already kinda insane as is

[dense locust]

I really just dont see the point
it just makes terraspark even better than its competitors

[mystic sandal]

Honestly? I’m fine with that

[dense locust]

...just make the buffs not transfer?

[mystic sandal]

It’s for all intents and purposes supposed to be the main boots line

[dense locust]

tread's already only give 10% flight time as apposed to 20 with ring

[mystic sandal]

Ring is 10% I’m pretty sure

[dense locust]

ring is 20

[mystic sandal]

Oh it is 20%

[dense locust]

its 10% movespeed

[dense locust]

ok but like
it doesnt have to be?

theres nothing saying it's the main boots line except for the part where its the one in vanilla and it upgrades through the line
its like
we dont have to make the alternatives worse in comparison teraspark is good enough as is

and also like
even if terraspark inherits the 10% flight time it would get from harpy ring
that doesnt magically make wings noticably better (not that wings need the help they are perfectly fine competition already)

like if the goal is to make wings better then you can just... buff skyline
and if the goal is to make teraspark more of an upgrade then its just a matter of like... why? why does it need to be even better?

[mystic sandal]

That’s fair

[craggy girder]

astral snowball :)

rogue weapon comin up

[dense locust]

erm snowballs are ranged weapons

[hollow shell]

Yesss I support the Abyss no-map idea big time

I proposed that myself when I was on the dev team
uhh
... quite a few years ago

[craggy girder]

shhhhhhhhhhhh

new ranged weapon

[severe sparrow]

yeah abyss not having a map would be peak

although i think Infernum already kinda does this

[craggy girder]

they do it in the deepest parts

but i do enjoy the idea

[errant wind]

I think the snowball thing is a simple oversight they forgot to implement

[errant wind]

Could be a snowball that does more damage, so it makes the flurrystorm cannon more viable for early hardmode farm

[errant wind]

It does it but weirdly

You don’t see the map in the abyss

But when you leave you can see where you went