suggestions-discussion

[last shard]

Hope it passes

...wait why is so much of the message missing???

Oh nvm Discord just had a stroke

"Doesn't need bait to fish."

[keen zodiac]

peak

[last shard]

Also "Automatically reels back fish and automatically sends out an additional line per fish caught."

[fleet grotto]

I had an accessory concept for this where you didn't need bait to fish but you didnt have any bait fishing power, and your fishing power was heavily reduced (like 50%)
so you had much less fishing power

[last shard]

Tbh at that point though it's almost not worth using outside of an AFK farm

[fleet grotto]

that's kinda what I was imagining sorta

[scarlet musk]

wildly random fishing power that changes every minute

gambler pole

instead of a line spool it has a slot machine

and instead of a reel crank it has a slot lever

sevens striker style

[glass arch]

randomized number of fishing lines that changes every frame

only limit is how many your computer can handle before crashing

[errant wren]

accessory that makes hooks latch onto enemies to deal damage (totally an original idea and not already a mod )

[echo leaf]

next update

[golden sonnet]

@echo leaf effigies are right clicked next update

[echo leaf]

rad

i'll amend it to only talk about wires then

[golden sonnet]

what would it do when wired though?

[echo leaf]

wait whar

okay yeah i looked at the change nvm

[errant wren]

lmao

what a catastrophe

[worthy lintel]

i wired the flesh totem and now its draining my health

would not recommend

[echo leaf]

it has to feed somehow

[indigo yacht]

chocolate chip cookie

[hollow shell]

Incomprehensible, I've met with a terrible fate

(I know this is probably just a case of English second language and a rough translator being used)

Asking to increase the difficulty of the entirety of Death Mode feels like a bit of an overstep as well

That's a huge rebalancing effort

[indigo yacht]

don't worry they've handily provided the precise numbers to use

[hollow shell]

oh boy

[olive saddle]

no lets ask the devs to just increase hp while increasing ammo consumption and decreasing mags on weapons

oh wait lets also ask them to add bosses with no weaknesses or weak spots

[sterile grove]

What's wrong with this request? How can it be improved?

[grizzled dome]

Suggestions aren't suggesting solutions. They're supposed to point out a problem. The implementation of the solution is for the devs to do.

Your problem is "death mode isn't hard enough". So the suggestion would be "make death mode harder". The thing is that the devs generally find numerical improvements to be an uninteresting form of difficulty, which means that difficulty is primarily from AI changes, which are a lot of effort.

You could say "the fights are too quick/don't last long enough", but the only thing worse than a fight that's too quick is a fight that's too slow, especially if it's going to be fought more than once (which these are, because they have random drops).

If you really wanted to drill down, you can say "bosses shouldn't be easy to defeat simply by running away from them in a straight line", but you have to consider both the players who prepared by building a huge arena, and the ones who didn't want to do that and made a smaller arena. And making them too fast might unfairly punish players for not making giant arenas.

[sterile grove]

Oh, you are right , thanks you
I'll be more specific

[grizzled dome]

By "high effort", I mean "probably too high effort to put into a suggestion". Or... there was a difficulty above Death at one point, that being Malice, but it was removed for being annoying and unfun so the devs clearly don't want the game to be too hard (and suggesting re-adding something that was removed is pretty strictly forbidden).

Also, they've tried to move all boss stat changes into the Expert/Master toggle and use Revengeance/Death for AI changes, to sort of clean up the mess that is having two separate difficulty sliders.

[echo leaf]

I think that it's better to have bosses be easier with a big arena
You can waste your time with the mind-numbing tedium of building a big arena in return for a boss fight in which you can use less complex movement patterns, or you can use a smaller arena in which you'll need to learn how to reuse existing space

[sterile grove]

Okay, I'll talk about a more specific problem, the imbalance of the final bosses, because everyone after Dog is worse than him.

[north oracle]

Is this based off infernum?
Everyone's experiences are different with these bosses, I wouldn't say in base cal DoG is notably harder than Scal or exos (especially when learning from scratch)

[drowsy plank]

difficulty is subjective yeah and this doesnt really give any reasoning beyond those subjective points

this is also just super vague and sweeping

[north oracle]

This doesn't really have much reasoning for why these should be buffed other than "some people found this hard", yea

[sterile grove]

I'm talking about the main mod, Infernum is crap, I'll never play it again

I've played Regular Calamity a lot more, I know it a lot better, and I speak for it too.

[north oracle]

Alr
Then the problem is the reasoning in that suggestion being incredibly subjective

[sterile grove]

Oh, screw Terraria, I'm going to play Doom.

[drowsy plank]

you didnt even try to fit the rules man idk what to tell you

[sterile grove]

I'm just a blogger, I shoot terraria, I decided to share my opinion

[indigo yacht]

well no they kind of are, the issue with that they're being too specific and the scope is very broad

[last shard]

I have a silly grudge against enemies who have no drops until later but spawn earlier

[fleet grotto]

i think this could work but also youd need to be very careful because even a late hardmode player could take out one of those enemies without much struggle and get post poltgerghast tier weapons

[last shard]

I mean, tbh it's also Polterghast who is not far at all from a Late-HM player

Like that's one fairly short boss fresh off Moon Lord iirc

[crude geode]

If the abyss bosses (minus Wyrm) were actually difficult I would agree with this suggestion, but currently they’re very easy to kite in t4 and you can get the equipment to survive a decent amount of time post cal clone

[fleet grotto]

nno

polterghast is intended post provi

what it unlocks is balanced around that

[last shard]

Oh lmao

[fleet grotto]

Anyways, the abyss miniboss would need to be made a lot more of an actual threat for this to work as well

Eidolon wyrms literally do fucking nothing

They just try to slowly swim into yoj

[last shard]

Tbh that goes for like, all the Abyss difficulty.

T3's probably one of the most dangerous and that's literally just because of being Post-Golemish and having Colossal Squid spawns

Which if you keep your gear built right and don't use things like Summons, are fairly easy to avoid

[drowsy plank]

well if you actually attack them they'll cast lunatic cultist spells eventually and those can be kind of threatening (ice ball inflicts frozen) but most of the time u can ignore them yeah

[fleet grotto]

This was removed

They no longer do that

[last shard]

I think only the superboss version does that now

I killed one recently and it just kinda existed lol

[fleet grotto]

Removed in the from the ashes update

I only know this because I made a suggestion about it previously #suggestions-voting message

[drowsy plank]

oh wtf

i guess it must've been the eidolists nearby that were doing it

lmao wtf was the idea here

[last shard]

Yeah Eidolists still do it

But Eidolists are just

So squishy

[drowsy plank]

same vibes as all the contact damage based bosses that just lost their contact damage (running through ravager pillars)

honestly if people can farm for eidolon tablet from eidolists in no wof% idk how i feel about polter tier gear being available from enemies around the same point in progression

seems like a bad idea

[crude geode]

Yeah it just feels very easy considering how the abyss minibosses are. not difficult

[drowsy plank]

and rebalancing all the gear seems even worse, if you did this you would need the enemies to be actually threatening first

[last shard]

Maybe the enemies themselves need the buffs?

Like if they're so easy to kill overall before when you're supposed to in Post-ML content

That seems like a very big problem on how easy they'd be for on tier kills

[drowsy plank]

i mean that's a given but that doesnt make your idea any better because it would still allow you to progression skip absurdly easily by just going down there as soon as like, moon lord is down or smthn

and then u have pre-DoG tier gear

[crude geode]

Unless you wanna make them as difficult as the actual bosses in your example, I don’t think this is a reasonable idea to give people, especially considering how generally good the weapons from them are

[last shard]

I mean yeah, counterpoint you just killed said minibosses in a practically hitless scenario (none of the usual good breathing tools exist here til like Post-ML so Sea King Help is a must) spending a fairly good period of time to do so- that seems like a fair balance. As long as the enemies themselves get that buff up as well.

[drowsy plank]

hitless is generous, and there's nothing stopping you from just

taking them out of the abyss

[last shard]

I

Holy shit I forgot you could do that

[drowsy plank]

you're already supposed to be dealing with them with post-provi gear, even just a tier or two before that is of similar power level

using post-cultist or post-moon lord tier items would easily allow you to access post-polter tier gear

this all just comes back to the miniboss problem as presented with the festive moons

as long as they dont despawn and you can just keep throwing yourself at them they will die, you wont, and you'll get busted gear for it

deerclops fixes this problem by having dogshit drops

[crude geode]

Real

[last shard]

Lmao fair

Tbh I'm probably just salty that these enemies exist at such a point in the game but don't really drop anything if you do pull off a kill, but there's so many other similar jumps up you can do as early as bossless.

Namely Scourge and Levi/Anahita mostly

But none are so drastic

[fleet grotto]

I think this could actually work If they are reworked to be more of a threat, even to postpolter players

[last shard]

Ngl I'm actually pre-polter rn and was operating under the pretense that they actually were

[fleet grotto]

I've killed a few post leviana because they're a good source of the materials

[last shard]

Like, I actually kinda forgot Polter existed and have been working on Rune of Kos bosses lmao (I purified all the Hallow and don't feel like carving out better arenas for Underworld Provi)

[last shard]

Tbf maybe this is why Primordial's drops are fair

Considering it's like, endgame gear drops, but it's a really huge boss meant to be on par with Exos and SCal

But challengeable as early as Post-WoF

(And on GFB seeds, can be fought enraged outside of the Abyss easily)

[errant wren]

i say we just make them have a really small chance (like really tiny) to drop 1 lumenyl or depth cell before changing drops back to normal post-polter

idk i only ever had this issue because i forgot what cal progression was like

[indigo yacht]

we should remove them from the game

[crude geode]

True

[drowsy plank]

true

[echo leaf]

make all items random drops from enemies

turn clamity into gacha

[half imp]

you get 1 pull per day

hard pity at 90 pulls

you gonna roll a terra blade or a paper airplane?

[last shard]

Tf when your luck's so bad you have to solo DoG with the Lawnmower

[errant wren]

10 bajillion platinum for one wish fragment

[mystic sandal]

Somehow, this suggestion will cause 300 messages of arguments

[drowsy plank]

what if we killed it bc it's lame lmao

[spice stream]

just remove all names

[indigo yacht]

500 billion stars

[royal tapir]

“No one cares enough go home”

[median scaffold]

If OD's drops are being reworked, why not rework SDFMG too?

[indigo yacht]

https://tenor.com/view/tf2-scout-disappointed-sigh-team-fortress-2-gif-15625429054074414215

[indigo yacht]

why

even if a dummy can move like a boss that still doesn't mean it would be better to test on than one

[glass arch]

at that point its just easier to fight the boss

[crude geode]

5 config settings when you could just fight the boss

[indigo yacht]

dummies are good for crashing your game via on hit effects and that's about it

[olive saddle]

dummys are good for getting a general grasp for what a weapon does and thats it

you can see what it does and how it works now

[tardy geyser]

remove super dummy

[oblique birch]

Kill dps meter before killing dummies

[errant wren]

remove calamity

[drowsy plank]

kill dps meter AND dummies 👍

[crude geode]

Eh dummies are nice for testing how a weapon functions

DPS meter is really meaningless tho

[oblique birch]

Dummies are nice

Dps meter however I loath that thing

[tame hare]

i just wanted to make this dummy that most ppl hate and ignore actually good to use just by adding simple 4 configs before fighting the boss if u want to test the best choice from those 4+ weapons for each class at every stage of progression

but still just a suggestion

[indigo yacht]

ok so

ai style works for vanilla stuff i think

but it does not at all work for modded

you'd have to completely rewrite every single enemy and boss in some way or just copy and paste all their code into the super dummy file

it would be a cataclysmic amount of effort just for people to say "don't use super dummies just fight the boss it's more reliable"

[tame hare]

by npcs ai i didnt mean bosses or modded enemies ai, i meant just the common enemies like slimes or zombies or whatever ai wich kinda simulate how can a boss fight be

i even disagree abt giving the dummy a boss ai its just doesnt make sense

[indigo yacht]

1. why would anyone want their super dummy to behave like a slime
2. rev and death modify most generic enemy ai styles so i don't think those would work at all
3. what do you mean by "whatever ai which simulates a boss fight" how would you do that without just having the actual boss

[indigo yacht]

actually there might be something clever you could do with objects

idk though terraria code is a nightmare

[tame hare]

slime was just an example of a common vanilla enemie, and by common enemis ai, just give the dummy their general ai, and by whatever ai i meant like 3 ais that can behave like most bosses, yk the ones that jump really high and land on u like KS and ravager..., really fast and dashing ai like EOL and and duke and maybe an other usefull ai

yk they can just add like 2 ais

wich r enough ig

[indigo yacht]

so you want like, generalized ai styles

why not just try it on the boss

[tame hare]

what if u wanted to actually see whats the best weapon on that boss before fighting it, especially if it even kills u before trying the weapon, and itll be even faster and better no?

but still u can just try it directly ig

[indigo yacht]

yeah but you can't know the best weapon from dummy testing

[tame hare]

ye, so the devs dont have to make every boss ai, just like 2, the moest common ones

[indigo yacht]

dps meter is unreliable (it doesn't even show dot debuff damage, for example) and so the best metric is killtime and you can't get a killtime on a dummy

[tame hare]

y not?, u kinda just give it that boss stats and it can be similar

[indigo yacht]

to be fair calamity bosses right now suck and are quite repetitive so generalized ai wouldn't be a huge departure for 60% of bosses

[tame hare]

we can also config hp if the community wants

[indigo yacht]

but how do you plan to change the dummy so that it can mimic scal

or exo mechs

or yharon

or providence

or dog

[tardy geyser]

Or any worm

[indigo yacht]

yeah

[tame hare]

atleast it makes the dummy more usefull

[indigo yacht]

what about brain of cthulhu

[tame hare]

ik ik

[indigo yacht]

dummy is useful for showing you how a weapon functions

you can't replace fighting the actual boss

[tame hare]

it can do more, and most dont even try it

[indigo yacht]

because there's no practical reason to

[tame hare]

this is y were trying to enchance it, it just good to see items actually have a good use

[indigo yacht]

i think this is comparable to the idea of trying to buff shellphone components into actual accessories

like, giving compass a 10% damage bonus or something

they already have a purpose that they work the best for but there's another thing you can do with them

(they tell you information but you can also equip and reforge them)

(dummies show you how a weapon functions but people try and use them for measuring effectiveness)

that was a terrible example lmao i shouldnt have brought that up

[tame hare]

and still, the ai config its just so the dummy moves or whatever, or maybe u can customize the ai u want?, maybe like settings how often it dashes, how fast it moves, how does it move and like that, maybe better than the 2 generalized ais

[tame hare]

ye but, its gonna show u more how effective is that weapon

[indigo yacht]

i understand what you're envisioning but this is a lot of effort to replace holding a summon item and left clicking

[tame hare]

tho, i said that its kind of a base idea, they can even remove this all ai config if its unnecessary and take too much effort

[north oracle]

this sounds like something for an entirely independent mod to do ngl

[tame hare]

there might be

the all ai idea can just be removed

just suggesting ideas

[obsidian nova]

Wait fr?

Hey guys, so I know about the "no specific item suggestions", but I have a few ideas that may or may not conflict with this rule:

1. Adding an item as an intermediate step in a crafting line (this one's almost definitely banned);
2. Adding an item into a different item's recipe (not sure about this one);
   And 3. Adding an item with a rough outline of what point in progression it could be crafted/what materials it could be using

[errant wren]

for 2, i think it could be argued for a few things, but i don't really see why in most cases
3 is basically sis

[plush flame]

#suggestions-posting message
1: there are already plans
2: they have massively increased stats

like pumpkings have ~230k hp

[obsidian nova]

Why?

[distant gyro]

awfully inaccurate

its pretty much impossible to determine long term dps using dps meter and it doesn't factor for certain things like debuffs

best chances for it to be accurate is literally shooting a really fast weapon for a full minute

[frail mantle]

@sterile grove already known, planned to be fixed Eventually™

i believe the buffed moons are dying entirely and the drops will be moved to new, unique sources

[sterile grove]

Well

[obsidian nova]

For more details, for the first one I wanted to suggest a duststorm in a bottle upgrade that goes between it and sealed singularity made using astral bars, for the second one I wanted to suggest adding mangrove chakram to sandslasher's recipe due to their similarities and because it's the only one from the grand scales set that doesn't use other weapons/accs to craft (so for consistency) and the third one is to suggest a fourth mana upgrade using the plague materials

[sterile grove]

It's just real, you take about 12 minutes to one-shot hundreds of bosses, and then you don't run it again

[frail mantle]

still rings true to this day

three years later

[distant gyro]

sandslasher is dying

rest are

too specific

[gilded citrus]

True…

[distant gyro]

"new x item using y material" can be more specific than you think

it pretty much narrowed down everything but the details

even the theme

[obsidian nova]

What about a place in progression instead?

[indigo yacht]

idk what you're talking about but a "add a weapon roughly post dog for rogue bc rogue has no weapons" or something like that is a fine suggestion

[obsidian nova]

Okay
What I was thinking about is adding a fourth mana upgrade post plantera

[echo leaf]

That's fine

As long as you focus more on why a mana upgrade is needed and why it would fit best right there, it'll be fine

[half imp]

The sand slasher one would also be fine to suggest it's just not likely to pass in dev bc sandslasher has like 2 updates left before death

[royal tapir]

Sandslasher is dead

It died months ago

Also mana upgrade would require rebalancing half of the mod

[half imp]

oh it's just dead entirely

Oh yeah bc we still have duststorm as the gss rogue

[frail fox]

“Who want me?”
15 - 1

[oblique birch]

who's the voter on the right

[plush flame]

self vote

[tame hare]

y u spamming in all channels

gone

[severe sparrow]

im curious

i saw on the wiki that almost every gss craft was suggested by two people, ijones72 and ThatGuy

how did that go about

[obsidian nova]

They've made a suggestion on this server ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[severe sparrow]

got it

[crude geode]

Extremely unlikely to ever happen again

[golden sonnet]

I would agree with this yes, At this point most content is fleshed out and being refined, so full item suggestions are almost always invalid and when they aren't are very unlikely to pass.

[remote maple]

We should just move Jousting Lance to PreHardmode. That thing shouldn’t be Hardmode exclusive

[echo leaf]

oh, it is hardmode

woah

but uh, I don't think retiering vanilla items is really in Calamity's MO
Zenith is an exception due to outstanding circumstance and I'm not aware of anything else that got its treatment

[remote maple]

Yeah. It’s fucked

[echo leaf]

i could have sworn it was post-skeletron

[errant wren]

the fricking uhhhhh

[remote maple]

Nope. It’s from the Zoologist in hardmode. Then you get the hallowed jousting Lance post mech boss 1(in vanilla), then you get the shadow jousting Lance post plant, then you’re done

[fleet grotto]

No eol jousting lance is criminal

[errant wren]

oh nvm was thinking of something else

[fleet grotto]

She literally has projectiles called ethereal lances (iirc)

[remote maple]

Yeah

You could probably just rip the sprite of the Ethereal Lance and futz with it a bit and get a jousting Lance

[remote maple]

That would make way more sense than the reality

[echo leaf]

I think the jousting lance might've been added alongside the Unicorn mount, hence why hardmode...? But I think Zoologist has horses which are available earlier

not sure. but there's no real point in complaining about it... maybe we can mod it to post-skeletron or something

[remote maple]

Yeah, after 30% of the beastiary is filled.

[remote maple]

It does 60 damage. Thats fucking pathetic, even for early hm

[fleet grotto]

Unicorn is from earlier versions

[echo leaf]

oh huh, mmm

[fleet grotto]

Iirc she sells more horses in hardmode

[echo leaf]

That makes more sense, I guess

[echo leaf]

that's why clamity buffs jousting lances

[remote maple]

No, all three horses are prehardmode.

[oblique birch]

it's awesome

[remote maple]

I brought this up in cal mod talk and doze had the amazing idea for a post DoG jousting Lance for use with the god slayer dash

[echo leaf]

feral~1

that's fucking peam holy hell i need it

[indigo yacht]

can we kill jousting lances

[echo leaf]

It also has a fantastically funny niche with the Devourer of Carts

[echo leaf]

https://tenor.com/view/resident_evil_4-resident-evil4-re4-strangle-strangling-gif-27515159

[remote maple]

RIGHT?

[remote maple]

Heh?

[indigo yacht]

their sole purpose is facilitating cheesy one shots, you are the ONLY person who has ever unironically used one as a weapon

don't fact check me, i will not read it

🔥

[echo leaf]

zased

[oblique birch]

zased

[errant wren]

i'm gonna start using them out of spite

[remote maple]

Also, why the fuck do mounts that deal contact damage deal summon damage

[errant wren]

cause you summoned the mount

[echo leaf]

because redgit wants to make sure that people who do 'pure' class runs need to be tortured as much as possible

[errant wren]

obviously

[remote maple]

You go at Mach YES and impale people. It’s peak

[remote maple]

That tracks

[indigo yacht]

ok high school

[wispy wraith]

wait thats funny asf

[remote maple]

I know

[wispy wraith]

sadly melee is getting swapped to silva

[remote maple]

Dang

[oblique birch]

when that happens God Slayer Dash will be moved to Nebulous Core anyways

[remote maple]

Oh cool

[wispy wraith]

oh nice means the accesory has some potential relevance

[remote maple]

And the post dog Lance still has some potential to happen

[scarlet musk]

i am filled with glee

[remote maple]

Yay

[obsidian nova]

Why though

There's no 👍 or anything

[drowsy plank]

ngl even if it reaches devs it's prolly gonna be rejected lmao

[indigo yacht]

i like how both of the reasonings provided are just "you can do cool stuff in phm" but worded differently

itd be cool but I don't really think prehardmode needs a launcher just because it doesn't have one

[half imp]

yeah

I'd rather there actually be weapon progression in types of weapons

[last shard]

Y'know, now that I'm kinda thinking about it

Why is Abyss like

Generally super weak on each tier

[half imp]

I wouldn't say it's super weak on each tier tbh

[last shard]

Like when you go to a layer when events let you get the loot actually available now, it's usually really easy with just one buff and a hook

[half imp]

That's mostly because Amidias Blessing is way too strong

[last shard]

Trueeee

[half imp]

but it also means you have to nohit that area of the abyss

if you get hit you're dead

[last shard]

I mean

Nohit really isn't hard for T2/T3

[half imp]

nefarious falling scoria ores

I think I've gotten hit by those more than anything else

[last shard]

And T4 you have the Abyssal suit anyway which iirc affords way more room for error on tanking

[half imp]

yea

Either way Amidias Blessing will be dead next major update 😇

[last shard]

Yeah honestly that and hidden vents, but like, literally just an ounce of care solves it lol

[last shard]

Oh?

Is it getting the Effigy of Decay treatment or is it just being turned to slow down breath loss instead

(Or removed entirely)

[half imp]

it's entirely gone

[last shard]

Aw

[drowsy plank]

it's not like it really added anything to the game

[last shard]

Probs for the best

But aw no one-boss needed for Terminus lol

[half imp]

now the only way to gain breath in the abyss without killing yourself is reaver armor like it should be

[last shard]

Ngl I did like it for Sunken Sea earlygame

[errant wren]

can we make it give infinite flight time in water

[half imp]

that's called flipper potion

[last shard]

...unironically that'd be cool lol

[errant wren]

that is double jumps in water

[drowsy plank]

what does infinite flight time in water even mean
you'd need to be using an item that ignores water physics for that to matter and you can just swim

[errant wren]

exactly that's why it's stupid

[half imp]

you can hold space with it to keep swimming iirc so it's just flight at that point

[errant wren]

ima need to test that later

[last shard]

I mean there's more than a few armors that do that, particularly connected around the time in early game like Victide

Could also consider Reaver (Mining) iirc

So it's not entirely useless, particularly if the mining reaver armor is going to become pretty much exclusively the armor to use in the Abyss now

[errant wind]

I finally talk about what annoys me the most in this mod with potions

Gosh is it annoying to not be able to craft the greater

[keen zodiac]

....you can though

[vocal wedge]

You can craft Greater Healing Potions.

[vocal wedge]

I just looked it up, it's with Pixie Dust and Crystal Shards.

[errant wind]

Oh wait, I mean it could probably be like, replacing the bottled water with the normal potion. But that’s just something that annoyed me

Dang I didn’t look long enough

Maybe I should rename it to change the crafting then

[drowsy plank]

why would you want to make it MORE expensive

[tired haven]

Well, at a very specific angle lesser potions being purchaseable + glowing mushroom dropping in thousands is sorta easier than vandalizing your nearby desert for bottles

[drowsy plank]

lmao

honestly we do need more consistent and renewable ways to get sand other than destroying an entire biome

[tepid crown]

we already have one

shimmer ale

[frail fox]

Kill DS 500 times

[tepid crown]

plus ds will have ds stomach

[indigo yacht]

add erosion to calamity

place stone in the ocean and multiple thousand years later it turns into sand

[echo leaf]

ale is expensive as shit for just using for sand

[drowsy plank]

also you need to find shimmer to do that

i was talking about early game which is when you'd really want to be able to get easy to access sand without destroying a biome

[echo leaf]

that’s a given
I can’t go ten minutes without shimmer

[drowsy plank]

lmao

[last shard]

Hey Cog

[drowsy plank]

honestly i was considering making this myself

glad i dont have to

lmao

[last shard]

What'd ya think of that suggestion lmao

Hehehe

[last shard]

Why not just antlions

Make them drop it

That'd be swell

[keen zodiac]

the helpful scourge bag:

[drowsy plank]

15 sand isn't worth shit and also needs you to kill a boss

not to mention it's a RANGE

you need to get LUCKY to get FIFTEEN SAND

[keen zodiac]

??????

i'm talking about the

[keen zodiac]

the upcoming expert drop

that converts dirt and stone and shit into sand

[drowsy plank]

huh

okay well when u say scourge bag and talking about a bag giving sand im going to assume that you mean the treasure bag bc it gives sand

i didnt know that existed

[keen zodiac]

i didn't know the treasure bag gave sand

[drowsy plank]

like i dont think we got a spoiler announcement for it did we?

yeah it's stupid

15 sand is like a kick in the face it ain't shit

[keen zodiac]

might as well be 2 copper

[drowsy plank]

still a little annoying you have to kill a boss for it but i suppose the bag should fix a few of the problems

[keen zodiac]

also who needs renewable sand preboss

[drowsy plank]

it's moreso an easy way to get a lot without blowing up a desert

or needing to go all the way to the shimmer and dump a bunch of resources in

even early you prolly want to make a lot of potions and it's also the one place you'd probably most want to be able to get a lot of glass for building since ur prolly making NPC housing so you'd want windows, clocks, etc.

[keen zodiac]

@cog

ping fail

[drowsy plank]

lol

[last shard]

Ngl this still feels like such a roundabout solution compared to

"Antlions can drop it now"

[drowsy plank]

tbf i dont think it was trying to fix the sand problem

it just happened to be a part of the item

coincidentally, it does help

[half imp]

Ok, but that doesn't help with inventory management and is substantially less interesting

[errant wind]

idk so you can directly upgrade the potions into greater ones

[errant wren]

~~alt crafting recipe where instead of crystals it's 3 lesser healing potions ~~

[severe sparrow]

im just curious
will there eventually be a way to tell if a weapon is resisted by a boss

because the game does not tell you the fact that some bosses resist certain weapons, which is pretty important info.

[errant wren]

i assume you mean stuff like piercing on worm bosses?

[gilded citrus]

I think this type of sug already failed but im going sleep so cant fact check

[indigo yacht]

i remember hearing a couple suggestions on the subject that were quite flawed

the main arguments were that it would encourage people not to use those weapons even though the resistances were just supposed to keep them from being too effective against that boss, and also you probably wouldn't notice ingame and can just check the wiki if you do

[errant wren]

i think that's also the basis for the heroic damage stuff that's coming later, no?

[golden sonnet]

Thanatos Gif:

[glass arch]

no

other way around

[errant wren]

makes sense

[indigo yacht]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/800781171138494551/1186091236667441162/caption.gif

[errant wren]

honestly i'm writing like three different things rn so all my information is off

[glass arch]

heroic damage is to let ostensibly crowd control weapons also work in a single target boss scenario without invalidating crowd control as a concept

[indigo yacht]

i suppose putting resistances in the bestiary wouldn't be a bad solution since it's not distracting and reduces wiki reliance

but I don't really think it matters, even then

[errant wren]

it's not like anything's actually stopping you from using the weapons regardless

[glass arch]

by the time you have the bestiary entry unlocked chances are its past the point where its useful

[indigo yacht]

oh right

i forgot how the bestiary works i never use it

[errant wren]

guide help option

[indigo yacht]

roasting you over an open flame

[glass arch]

theres no real clean way to put resistances anywhere while also having the list be relevant

because some weapons do just have a whole lot of enemies that resist them

[indigo yacht]

"dragon rage deals 25% less damage against Thanatos? wow, it must suck!"

actually i think it's more than 25% less

[glass arch]

i think its like 40%

[vocal wedge]

Counterpoint: People won't read it even if it was listed.

[errant wren]

you summon a boss and it just says "Hi my name is [boss] and i'm resistant to your [weapons it has resistances for]"

[glass arch]

oh no it is 25

[indigo yacht]

really? i could've sworn it was higher

hmm

[indigo yacht]

this isn't a direct response but it occurs to me that defense and damage reduction (actually i don't think this is in the bestiary so it's just not listed at all) are only visible after you kill the boss which is comparable to weapon resistances

which, to be fair, could certainly be argued to be a negative but is the existing precedent that I've not seen anyone complaining about

[indigo yacht]

and then the inverse: "wave pounder only deals 20% damage to dog? wow, it must suck!"

[last shard]

Mmmmm long pork roast~

[last shard]

I mean both would work

Sand's useful as fuck anyhow

[distant gyro]

its not that bad i think

merchants selling empty bottles was directly due to desert nukers

[keen zodiac]

oh lmao

[obsidian nova]

Yeah I remember when one of my friends did that

[umbral gazelle]

@candid magnet #1052323733961977947

oh wait

i think its because slime god is one of the weaker god out there

[candid magnet]

weaker than countless post hardmode bosses

💔

weaker than cryogen

a literal ice cube

weaker than plantera

idek the lore behind plantera

but they're literally a plant

[obsidian nova]

Speaking of reaver armor, do you think that the Nettleburst spikes would be more fitting for the helm's abilities than the Vilethorn spikes it currently uses?

[errant wind]

wait i forgot he did, thats useful

[obsidian nova]

Ngl I always forgot about it when I went to Sunken Sea

[eternal escarp]

if i remember right SG may be retiered
but in general

even if hes a god, hes a god of slimes, not a high par really

[humble scarab]

Yea

[eternal escarp]

and disregarding structure this suggestion is basically "entirely rework SG and rebalance its drops" which is decently high scope for "it makes sense" as a reason

[coral carbon]

Why is this most recent sugg not 🗜️ yet

[eternal escarp]

bot probably down again

so either way it wouldnt go anywhere

[obsidian nova]

Yeah he might get swapped with calclone or something

[tardy geyser]

Would be neat if SG was the first post moon lord boss though, fitting with king slime being the first pre hm boss, and queen slime being the first hardmode boss

[fleet grotto]

iguess, besides the fact it would need a lore rewrite (queen slime is* slime god)

@candid magnet you were probably told this already but just because it's a god doesn't mean it's automatically powerful, that's not what "god" means in calamity

[vocal wedge]

I mean they are considering putting god corpses as the first post-Moon Lord boss.

[gilded citrus]

Gods in calamity arent based on power but if they did the ascension ritual on a auric dragon soul
Slime god is probably one of if not the weakest god ever to have existed

[vocal wedge]

And they are already considering moving Slime God, which people have said already. But I also don't think slime guy has any reason to be on the same level as Ms. Omnicide.

Maybe putting 'Read the future content doc before suggesting' should be placed somewhere more visible.

[gilded citrus]

Providence is among some of the strongest gods to have existed
Slime being anywhere bear her when the slime god actively denies giving in to its slime given gluttony means yeah it would be extra wack

[fleet grotto]

You deny your weapon its purpose...

[vocal wedge]

(Also, going be lore, Cryogen was a construct made by the literal current final boss as a prison, and Plantera is fuelled by legions of souls, which is also what created a being STRONGER than Providence.)

[gilded citrus]

Polterghast and plantera sharing similar lore 💔

[vocal wedge]

It's on theme.

[eternal escarp]

that was always a kinda bandage explanation anyway

[gilded citrus]

Btw if slime god does get moved to post queenslime with the calclone shift
Queen slime will just be a rogue paladin

[fleet grotto]

rogue? stealth strike? holy fuck

[vocal wedge]

Give Queen Slime stealth mechanics.

[candid magnet]

how

[fleet grotto]

wdym how

[candid magnet]

they all ascended with a dragon soul

[fleet grotto]

yes

[candid magnet]

they should be powerful

[fleet grotto]

that doesn't automatically make them powerful no

[candid magnet]

why

[gilded citrus]

Dragons are not made equal

The dragon of being fat (gluttony) aint exactly the strongest sounding thing

[candid magnet]

yeah but a power gap to the point where one is in pre hardmode and one is post moon lord

is wild

[gilded citrus]

Xeroc is a god and is the strongest thing in calamity lore

[fleet grotto]

is ithe strength of the resulting god also affected by the success of the ascension?

[candid magnet]

xeroc did a perfect ascension

[fleet grotto]

i know that like

what the god has power over

or something

[gilded citrus]

Thats true but thats not a guarantee to the strongest
Xeroc is the strongest due to many reasons not just perfect god ascension

[fleet grotto]

more successful ascensions will lead to the god having closer powers to those of the dragon

or something

[vocal wedge]

I think this would be best discussed in lore discussion at this rate.

[gilded citrus]

Fair

#lore-discussion

[indigo yacht]

i mean sure

I don't really see why though

all you need to do is stealth strike once to check

[dark umbra]

yea but

its information

[indigo yacht]

does it really need to be stated though

[frail fox]

Every tooltip needs to be as long as possible

[indigo yacht]

it's not a bad suggestion but i wouldn't vote for it if there were any others that i thought added value to the mod

[last shard]

Honestly, I'd back it since early HM does still do a lot more cavern exploration

So there's plenty of room for blocks to well, block strikes on some

[half imp]

yeah it's pretty useful to know

[indigo yacht]

and you know how you can find out? by left clicking

[drowsy plank]

there's no reason not to include weapon functionality in the tooltip explaining weapon functionality

[crude geode]

Clarity in game mechanics is important

[last shard]

I mean in the case of choice, a lot of people will pass up trying options if they find one that suits their needs. Flasks also apply Ichor as it is, so this is kinda important on whether it's worth using up Ichor on these or not. If it doesn't stand out here with a major downside, it'll be out-of-tier quickly anyway and not even used.

Not everyone's gonna go out of their way to make every weapon to use it or farm it out unless they can see something about it that particularly appeals

And Early-HM thrown weapons have a lot of disappointing ones too, like the Orichalcum ones just kinda feel shitty to use because of both gravity and non-tile bypass. Worst waste of my bubblegum brick material ever.

Rogue weapons, more than any other class, also have an obscene amount of variety and options in use as it is. It deserves the detail to compensate.

[indigo yacht]

if this was a crafted weapon i would agree with you, but it's a mob drop

since it's a mob drop you either don't know about it beforehand and can simply test it on the spot, or you did already know about it because you used... the wiki... where the tile passing is already listed

like i said, it's not a bad change, it just doesn't really change anything

[crude geode]

It gives the player more information at a glance, which is better than withholding it bc…6 words of extra text?

Plenty of weapons tell you information without having to use them first, regardless of if they’re crafted or a mob drop

[glass arch]

well my question is

do any other weapons tell you if they pass through tiles or not

because i dont think any do

feels like something that would be out of place without going through and looking at every weapon to see if their projectiles do or dont go through tiles

its not a bad sugg per se it just feels... unnecessarily limited

[tepid crown]

i dont think its a common precedent no

[oblique birch]

hmm I remember some weapons do say their projectiles pass through tiles

but like the numbers are very few

[tepid crown]

really hate how you cant just search pass through tiles/blocks and show you all the ones that can

[oblique birch]

I found one

[royal tapir]

The only two I see in current dev build are Cleansing Blaze and Death Valley Duster

So it is very much an exception

[oblique birch]

very small numbers

[last shard]

Some do

I think

Crystal Piercer is one, but it seems more common for wether or not it's affected by Gravity more than tiles

[grizzled dome]

Explaining whether a projectile passes through tiles might be trivial, but when a projectile contextually passes through tiles (such as only during a stealth strike), that seems more worth pointing out.

[indigo yacht]

fair point

[half imp]

yeah I agree it's because of the contextual nature of it that I think it's worth noting

[misty lichen]

honestly it should just be a thing that can be intuited already

[grizzled dome]

no? "This goes through blocks only during stealth strikes" is not remotely intuitive.

But it's also a reasonable thing to be able to do.

[tardy geyser]

Just remove it going throw blocks on stealth strikes

[grizzled dome]

That's also an option but that is a different suggestion. If you would like to make that suggestion, feel free.

[misty lichen]

no i mean like

the items should be changed in a way where it should make sense

sorry

yeah i don’t think ichor spear needs to go through blocks regardless of throw type is just kind of pointless and makes it too good for underground explo

being intuitable would be like, oh this projectile is a ghost or ghostly in some form so it goes through blocks, etc

if there’s weird exceptions to places where itd make sense to go through blocks then it should probably be made more obvious via the item itself or removed

[whole tundra]

@candid magnet #suggestions-voting message

Also can you please read channel descriptions, this is far from the first time you've used a channel for the wrong purpose

[candid magnet]

?

i made a suggestion

[whole tundra]

An improperly formatted one and one that has already reached the dev server

[vocal wedge]

That is not a suggestion, it is a question.

[keen zodiac]

no you did not

read the pinned doc

[candid magnet]

it implies to change it to layer 4

if you have a brain

[vocal wedge]

It did not.

[keen zodiac]

you have to actually say that though

[vocal wedge]

If that was your suggestion, mention it, and also this has already been suggested.

It has 132 stars so far.

[keen zodiac]

also
there's a specific way you need to format suggestions so that

1. the bot can read it
2. people take you seriously

you're trying to convince the devs to change something
that's the point of a suggestion

[vague bramble]

the reading comprehension devil from chainsaw man

[frail mantle]

you really did not have to say this

also yes if you're gonna make suggestions please do actually read the doc so you know how to format them correctly

[tame hare]

guys can i post a suggestion abt the nurse?

[obsidian nova]

Guys can you please give me an argument for adding a magic weapon to wof drops

[humble scarab]

it will be hard

[humble scarab]

every class beside mage have calamity weapon dropped by WoF

ranger have meowthrower

summoner have black hawk remote

and melee have carnage

and mage? nothing

mage have more options after WoF tho so i dont think its needed

or they are locked after mythril anvil?

[crude geode]

Yeah I would say the closest you can get is this consistency, but also it isn’t totally needed and I’d honestly rather have the extra weapons minus maybe Blackhawk removed

[glass arch]

meowthrower is a nothingburger, carnage i entirely forgot was even a wof drop, black hawk can just be a craft

[tame hare]

is it acceptable?

[humble scarab]

write the suggestion here first maybe

and read the document first

[glass arch]

none of them need to be wof drops

[humble scarab]

i like meowthrower

[tame hare]

i did, but im still pretty confused and jus wanna make sure

[tame hare]

ofc u do

[humble scarab]

thats why its best to write the suggestion here

so we can check

[tame hare]

its just abt smth with her healing mechanic

[humble scarab]

i cant imagine what could be changed here

you cant even heal in death mode, and its there to just heal including debuffs

[tame hare]

but not everyone plays DM?

so...

[glass arch]

thats the thing about wof none of its drops need to be drops from wof specifically all of its drops can be obtained elsewhere

[tame hare]

and u cant see anything can be changed abt an npc that immediately heal u just by a click?

[humble scarab]

i know

[tame hare]

anyways is it legal?

ull see its not smth that big

[glass arch]

if you want to nurse cheese you can do that but i dont think the devs care about getting rid of nurse cheese

it all comes back to the calamity economy being fucked

[tame hare]

its not completly getting rid of it, its just like 2 really simple ideas, could be a rev exclusive change

just how DM changes her mechanics

[glass arch]

yeah but you arent explaining any of this

[tame hare]

i will when i post, just making sure its legal.

[humble scarab]

if you say to what exacly it should be changed then its not legal but

if you say that this is a issue which needs to be changed and why

its legal

just dont say how to fix this issue

for example, "nurse healing is too strong during the bosses"

[tame hare]

i mean, its not an issue, its just..., a simple change

[glass arch]

ok but why does it need to happen

[humble scarab]

here you suggest what should be changed and why

just not how

[glass arch]

(or you can suggest removals)

speaking of which

[humble scarab]

i agree that those additional weapons from wof are unecessary

[tame hare]

wdym?

[tame hare]

what weapons?

[humble scarab]

explain why it should be changed

give a resoning why they should change it

[tame hare]

i will ofc

[glass arch]

why does nurse need changes

it doesnt matter if you think its common sense you do still have to explain it also god dammit wifi send my fucking messages

[tame hare]

lol, and ye ill ofc

[vague bramble]

[wispy wraith]

@glass arch why????

[glass arch]

it doesnt need another one

[wispy wraith]

if you are gonna remove one remove wildfire bloom i hate that weapon with a passion

[glass arch]

wildfire bloom is a flamethrower it gets a pass for at least not being another bow

and also i dont care if you hate it or not im not making a suggestion to appeal to you specifically

[golden sonnet]

Wildfire bloom currently has too little pierce making it feel awful for events which a flamethrower should normally be good at. Outside of that I have no beef with it

[frail fox]

Stellar reasoning

[median scaffold]

"Kill it. Please." is a banger line in this context, ngl

[humble scarab]

@tame hare we literally said, dont give ideas to how it can be changed to

just explain why

[glass arch]

much like how ranged doesnt need another life shard craft the sugg doesnt need another sentence of reasoning

[tame hare]

to keep the diff of bosses?, wdym?

[humble scarab]

you also added your idea how it should be changed which you shouldnt add

the first part is good

[tame hare]

isnt the idea the main suggestion goal?

or how do i say it?

[humble scarab]

for example, if you want to suggest a change of npc behavior, you dont give ideas, how it should be changed or how it should look. You just say it should be changed and why.

you did good explaining why

but you shouldnt put your ideas to how it should look or how it should be changed

except for removals

or retiers

[drowsy plank]

@tame hare you're focusing too much on the solution and not on the problem

[tame hare]

so instead of saying my idea is..., i say it sould be changed...?

[drowsy plank]

you want nurse healing changed but dont explain why this change is needed beyond "to maintain the difficulty"

[tame hare]

sorry dude im learning

[tame hare]

i mean...what other reason it can be?

[hollow shell]

(Did the Nurse disabling during boss fights get removed?)

[drowsy plank]

you should focus more on what nurse healing being the way it is currently breaks or makes unfun in any way

i dont really consider nurse healing invasive enough to bother needing a change. death mode already blocks it, and you need to go out of your way to do it

[glass arch]

death mode exclusive

[drowsy plank]

i believe it has always been death mo- yeah that

[glass arch]

normally its a 5x price increase during bosses

[drowsy plank]

lmao wait is that just in rev or all modes

[glass arch]

all modes i think

[drowsy plank]

that's hilarious

as if money means anything in calamity

[glass arch]

only specification on the wiki is for death mode

[humble scarab]

well, it was added before the nonconsumable boss summons

[tame hare]

i did suggest it being a rev exclusive just like DM wich completly removes it

[drowsy plank]

imo this is the same as teleporter cheese, if you bother to set up a house that you can access mid fight and don't just die for it and also want to burn the money to use nurse then like

sure whatever man go for it

good luck doing that against post-ML bosses

[idle dagger]

The nurse and I getting executed by DoG because I can’t menu quickly enough

[drowsy plank]

LITERALLY

[glass arch]

if you're gonna go out of your way to do it sure why not go ahead its not the devs place to tell you the correct way to play the game

[tame hare]

so i just remove the 2nd part?

[drowsy plank]

you should yes

[tame hare]

done

[drowsy plank]

you probably want to come up with more of a reason in the first part though because as we have been discussing, removing or changing the nurse being able to heal during bossfights is sort of going against Calamity's recent design philosophy

which really doesn't care if you cheese bosses as long as it requires a bit of actual effort, and setting up a nurse house you won't just get butchered in is enough effort for one paid heal imo

[tame hare]

isnt that a part of the diff?

[dark umbra]

wait are you thinking of making her be able to heal or not

or rework

[drowsy plank]

Zakaria wanted to rework her

i dont see much of a point

honestly nurse herself is sort of redundant at this point

[tame hare]

i mean. if u want her to immediately heal u just play normal diff, cz this feature was suggested to be a rev exclusive

[drowsy plank]

i cant even remember the last time i actually use nurse heal normally, let alone for cheese lmfao

[tame hare]

so its just up to u if u wanna cheat or nah

[drowsy plank]

her whole purpose was to fast heal you when you respawned at half health for no reason

[idle dagger]

since calamity has full health on respawn iirc I don’t think I ever use the nurse

[drowsy plank]

calamity removed that so now she's just

[dark umbra]

hermit's box of one hundred medicines:

[glass arch]

its not cheating if its intended game mechanics 👍

[humble scarab]

calamity already blocks it if you play on higher difficulty so

[idle dagger]

I don’t even think you need the hermit box anymore

[drowsy plank]

is just a pet now
the full HP respawn is a default mechanic now

[dark umbra]

i know

[humble scarab]

you dont

[dark umbra]

i was saying since that existed she had no purpose

[drowsy plank]

im glad it's gone but nurse sure is just. the npc you use to max out arms dealer hp lmfao

[tame hare]

bro u can cheese and cheat with the mechanics if used right

[drowsy plank]

you can call it whatever you want

[humble scarab]

cheese and cheat if you want

[drowsy plank]

they're still just intended game mechanics

[humble scarab]

its single player game

if you feel that its not rewarding

then dont use it

[glass arch]

nobody is complaining about hoiks despite them objectively breaking a whole lot of stuff

[dark umbra]

i am

[glass arch]

you dont count

[dark umbra]

fuck hoiks

[dark umbra]

fair

[humble scarab]

its not even being forced onto you

and you dont even get punished for not using it

so who cares if it exists

[dark umbra]

but its the best transportation method

[glass arch]

hoiks are not the best transportation method

[dark umbra]

what is

[drowsy plank]

pylons? teleporters?

[humble scarab]

yup

[dark umbra]

oh real

forgot those existed

[glass arch]

any form of instant transportation and also momentum capacitor

[tame hare]

ye but...what do we say abt the nurse in DM, she was reworked to fit the DEATH MODE difficulty, just how reavengeance can also have a nurse rework, but less deadly ig

[drowsy plank]

it already does with the increased cost

what more do you need

[humble scarab]

nurse isnt really that overpowered unless you do extra mile to set it up

most dont do that

and its easy to miss the heal button too

[glass arch]

you have to go out of your way to make nurse op and you also have to be good at menuing to actively use her in combat

[drowsy plank]

this is also assuming she doesn't just pop like bubble wrap the second you walk near her while a boss is alive

[tame hare]

dude money at some points in the game is the last thing u would worry abt.

[humble scarab]

and at those points in the game,, shes being oneshot

[tame hare]

ik but still if u just made a right setup.

[drowsy plank]

what setup stops her from dying to a boss charging through her house

[glass arch]

by the point the increased money doesnt matter you're at the point where her healthbar is a fancy number that doesnt do anything because it would have the same effect if the number was one

[tame hare]

dude with some setups u can avoid that

[humble scarab]

you can be untouchable

with some setups

[tame hare]

a lot

[humble scarab]

but it isnt multiplayer game

its a singleplayer SANDBOX

[drowsy plank]

show me one that stops her from exploding from a duke charge or something

[tame hare]

ik, this is still just a suggestion at the end

[glass arch]

the player can be untouchable
distinctly not npcs
npcs are fairly fucking stupid actually i have seen them walk into their own deaths

[drowsy plank]

suggestions need to fix a problem, and you haven't exactly explained what the problem is

[tame hare]

dude just set a prison for her pretty far from the arena so she cant be killed from the boss or its projectiles, set ur spawn point by a bed near her prison, when ur too low just recall home and heal then u will use the telepolter that is linked up to the arena of the fight so u go back to the fight quickly without enraging the boss or tracking the boss to the nurse and get her killed

[drowsy plank]

at that point why not just put the teleporter on a timer and keep the boss in the middle

[errant wren]

that's basically just the cheese with extra steps

[tame hare]

i said "a lot of setups"

[drowsy plank]

that honestly sounds like a LOT of effort to do that and she still might die anyway considering most bosses can teleport, or it'll just despawn from you being too far away

[glass arch]

yeah thats just tp cheese with extra steps

and less consistent

[indigo yacht]

trying to prevent cheese in terraria is a losing battle

[tame hare]

u must make the prison just not too far so the boss despawns

[indigo yacht]

the most you can do is try and make it so that the cheese is at least interesting, or just focus on making the intended way more enjoyable so nobody tries to cheese

[errant wren]

i understand what you're saying, but also it's still the cheese with extra steps

[tame hare]

and?

[drowsy plank]

and who cares

[tame hare]

someone

[glass arch]

you cant kill cheese because theres always gonna be a new one so the best you can do is just make cheeses take effort and be interesting

[errant wren]

yeah like if the nurse only healed like 200 hp

[drowsy plank]

have you tried just not using the nurse it's really good at not allowing you to cheese

[indigo yacht]

is there even anything wrong with cheesing a boss

[drowsy plank]

not really

[tame hare]

dude my all suggestion its not like remove all the cheese ways or smth, its just the basic thing wich is the nurse

[indigo yacht]

question: change how

[tame hare]

up to the player

[indigo yacht]

it doesn't say

[tame hare]

wdym

[indigo yacht]

your suggestion just says "a change to the nurse"

what kind of change

or, change to the healing i mean

[tame hare]

so u want me to add the idea?

or?

[errant wren]

you should give the general idea without focusing on it too much

[drowsy plank]

they suggested making her give increased regen

[indigo yacht]

instead of instant hp?

[drowsy plank]

i said not to specify the specific method of change

yeah

[indigo yacht]

okay

the only time i use the nurse is when I'm on deaths door and have a lethal debuff

[drowsy plank]

they should be focusing more on why the nurse needs a change, and if the regen solution is a good idea, the devs will figure it out themselves

[errant wren]

as it stands right now, uhh idk i woke up 30 minutes ago

[tame hare]

i mean, it does get voted out by the community wich tells if its a good idea or not

[indigo yacht]

no it doesnt

the calamity community is generally not that smart and enthralled by pretty shapes and colors

[errant wren]

flip icicle arrow when it

[tame hare]

but if they like it atleast ig

[indigo yacht]

voting just tells how much the community likes an idea, not how good it is

yeah

[tame hare]

ye ur right, i want to tell my idea, but how can i focus more on the first part

[drowsy plank]

you need to explain what mechanical problems the nurse's current implementation is causing

you could focus on how other defenseive options have been nerfed in comparison to nurse who just has a small cost increase tacked on despite the fact that in calamity's non-existent economy, that does basically nothing to change the actual cost to the player since money is a non-issue

you need to emphasize how her large chunk healing is somehow more problematic than just, i dunno, using a healing potion or something

or the dozens of lifesteal weapons calamity adds

emphasize how utilizing her during bossfights creates unfun gameplay loops where you just try to design the safest cheese box to get infinite HP and forces you to mob grind for money instead of trying to learn the boss's patterns or something

stuff like that

[errant wren]

you could hypothetically raise an argument about deincentivizing cheese

which.. cog basically just said

[tame hare]

can i get back my idea after saying that?

[drowsy plank]

it would be preferable if you did not put your specifically implementation back in

the whole point of this channel is to explain problems not propose solutions

solutions are purely in the realm of developer work

[tame hare]

i just want to give the devs like a base idea if they got interested with the post, its not like this is how it should be changed.

[drowsy plank]

as i mentioned, base ideas should typically be avoided and are rarely necessary except for a minority of edge cases

your suggestion is better the less it tries to railroad the solution

[tame hare]

ight thx for the chat

@drowsy plank ight is it good now?

[drowsy plank]

lmao u just frankenstien'd what i said but yeah that seems fine

[tame hare]

want to mention u in credits?, i might just do that. and sorry i have no ther ideas to think of lol

[drowsy plank]

no idc, i was just saying those things as examples, id figured they'd get you thinking and you'd be able to come up with some more reasons nurse cheese was bad, or find your own words to say it, but if you wanna use mine, go ahead

[tame hare]

i did it anyways

was worth to mention u for me

and ye ik udc, was just joking, but still did it...

[obsidian nova]

Yeah, and blast barrel is kind of just a DK reference
When you put it like this it's really starting to look like moving these drops would be the best idea

[obsidian nova]

Good idea

[drowsy plank]

i think meowthrower is fine, and i assume the thematics around WoF are trying to lean into the Random Bullshit Go vibes it and Moon Lord have in terms of drops

but blast barrel sucks and carnage sucks i can agree with those

i think black hawk is fine where it is

idk how you'd rework it to still make sense and recipes are lame

it also makes sense to have two for every class since it's the start of a new leg of progression and moon lord has two of every class as well (minus rogue which has 1 and melee which has 3 because of course it does)

[tepid crown]

ml dropping two sentries

: )

[crude geode]

Yeah I’m fine with mage getting another drop from wof

[gilded citrus]

breaker blade
carnage
?

[drowsy plank]

moon lord drops

[crude geode]

ML not Wof

[tepid crown]

moon lord

[gilded citrus]

o

[drowsy plank]

rogue only having one for each is because much like how red hated summoner pre-whips, calamity hates rogue

this is also why moon lord drops two sentries

[tepid crown]

real

[glass arch]

yeah why does ml drop 2 sentries they're just kinda rehashes of mage weapons

[gilded citrus]

what mage rehash is crystal rod

rainbow rod

idk

[tepid crown]

rainbow crystal staff

[glass arch]

you cannot tell me lunar portal staff is not a rehash of lunar flare and last prism

[tepid crown]

lunar flare?

[indigo yacht]

what is lunar flare

[drowsy plank]

what

[indigo yacht]

is that the asteroid staff one

[drowsy plank]

https://terraria.wiki.gg/wiki/Lunar_Flare

[gilded citrus]

the ml book

[tepid crown]

ml mage drop

[drowsy plank]

calling it the asteroid staff one hurts me

[indigo yacht]

they're all the same

[crude geode]

It’s not wrong

[tepid crown]

we love none of the mage subclasses actually meaning anything

[crude geode]

Just like how Yharim’s Crystal and Dark Prism are just Last Prism copies

[drowsy plank]

we love none of the mage subclasses actually meaning anything

[crude geode]

[indigo yacht]

mage weapons are supposed to be unique enough that subclasses don't really exist

[gilded citrus]

hey
some do

[indigo yacht]

since if you take any two given spell books they're probably not going to be very similar in function

[gilded citrus]

aqua scepter and piss book

[indigo yacht]

or, not more similar than a spell book and awand

[crude geode]

Waterbolt, Icebolt, and Firebolt when they

[indigo yacht]

yeah

[drowsy plank]

tbf that's calamity's fault not vanilla's

but also like

[gilded citrus]

magic missile line

[drowsy plank]

vilethorn and crystal vile thorn

[tepid crown]

ok but thats just calamity looking at waterbolt going "yea we totally need this in every progression point"

[drowsy plank]

yeah

[tepid crown]

yea

[drowsy plank]

flamelash and magic missle and rainbow row

[indigo yacht]

can we add a mage subclass thats just the exact same weapon but it deals more damage with each upgrade

[crude geode]

That’s half the mage weapons dw

(I love and hate terraria magic)

[gilded citrus]

magic missile line

[indigo yacht]

I've never even used any of those weapons

[tepid crown]

vilethorn, crystal vile shard, nettle burst is a better showcase of vanilla copypasting stuff

[drowsy plank]

oh sky fracture and unholy trident except those are basically on the same tier so lmfao

[crude geode]

Sky fracture doesn’t involve an annoying farm at least

[drowsy plank]

light shards...

[crude geode]

Shhhhhhhh desert gets corrupted anyways it’s fine

[gilded citrus]

light and dark shards existing for 3 things total

[indigo yacht]

sky fracture and unholy trident are still more distinguishable than like 80% of calamity broadswords

[tepid crown]

flamelash pierces its so different!!!!

[drowsy plank]

light and dark shards suck so much ass

[indigo yacht]

flamelash is also a fireball so like

yeah

[crude geode]

It’s baffling

[drowsy plank]

but vanilla's broadswords aren't
this is more of a melee issue than anything

[indigo yacht]

make it so you can combine shards with souls to convert them to the other type

[tepid crown]

vanilla having a much worse material bloat problem than any other mod ever

🫗

[drowsy plank]

vanilla had to make all the materials so i can't completely fault the idea but like

man couldnt you make them a bit more proportional to their uses

[indigo yacht]

calamity adds so many useless materials but every time i want to talk about it i realize that vanilla does the exact same thing

well

slightly less so

[glass arch]

shoutout

[drowsy plank]

to be fair!!! as someone who went through a very laborious process to remove a bunch of thorium materials in a calamity/thorium compatability mod

while a lot of materials do not need to exist

[tepid crown]

ancient cloth existing is so ?????

because every other enemy would just

drop vanity pieces

[indigo yacht]

its so that making arid artifact is as annoying as possible

[drowsy plank]

sometimes you kind of want a material to exist so you actually have a thematic reason for items to exist otherwise you get some of the weird ass recipes that modern calamity has where you have shit like. idfk living fire blocks in a recipe or something

[tepid crown]

ancient cloth is vanilla

[indigo yacht]

i know

[frail fox]

This reminded me that the fire flower is a real weapon

[indigo yacht]

LOL

[crude geode]

Living fire block is my favorite material it’s so fucked

[indigo yacht]

hello mario.

[drowsy plank]

flower of fire, flower of frost, and... cursed flames book

what was red cooking

[gilded citrus]

meth

[crude geode]

Also there’s something to be said about calamity making inferno fork 2,3, and 4

Even if one of them is improved now

[frail fox]

So retro

[glass arch]

dust spam gif

[indigo yacht]

i don't think that's what they had in mind

[drowsy plank]

helium flash is cool it gets a pass

fuck the other ones

[crude geode]

Also that fucking line

[drowsy plank]

helium flash is also a direct upgrade so it makes sense

[gilded citrus]

venusian trident

[crude geode]

Venusian trident is a direct upgrade

[indigo yacht]

mage weapon where you gamble

[crude geode]

Helium flash is copying it’s notes to justify it’s existence as post-dog weapon #7977

[indigo yacht]

can we get purple zapinator for pml

[drowsy plank]

ummmmm no it isn't i cant hear you it isn't real

[glass arch]

we should bring back hell burst

[frail fox]

Shoutout to demonic pitchfork

[drowsy plank]

helium flash got the rework it's cool now leave him alone

[crude geode]

Never

[drowsy plank]

venusian is the fucked up one

[frail fox]

Well that’s also got reworked I think

Just not publicly seen

[drowsy plank]

dustspam nothing burger of a weapon

maybe

[frail fox]

Go hate on Forbidden Sun

[tepid crown]

you have a one in seven chance to say a random calamity weapon and it would be reworked next update

[drowsy plank]

true

[indigo yacht]

1 million weapon reworks done 8 billion more to go

[crude geode]

Forbidden Sun needs to die yesterday

[drowsy plank]

SSO coming NEVER!!!!!

[glass arch]

it was peak

[gilded citrus]

the fucking blackhole book

[crude geode]

Literally the least justified inferno fork clone

[tepid crown]

event horizon?

[drowsy plank]

i think a vile shard upgrade is cool but everything else about this thing sucks

[gilded citrus]

yeajh'

[drowsy plank]

retiered

[frail fox]

Retiered and adjusted some so kinda

[crude geode]

Event Horizon’s awesome

[gilded citrus]

damn

[indigo yacht]

vile shard upgrade where it just homes and nothing else is different

[drowsy plank]

yeah you see that is one of the bad parts i was talking about

[gilded citrus]

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
that underworld rogue weapon thats a spike

[drowsy plank]

he is potential man

[tepid crown]

i dont think anythings happened to event horizon

[drowsy plank]

ashen stalagtite?

[tepid crown]

and if it has its not in changelogs

[indigo yacht]

if there's not one of the vilethorn esque weapons in the distortion i will delete the calamity mod

[frail fox]

This

[drowsy plank]

it got retiered and yes it isn't in changelogs i think

[tepid crown]

erhm acktuallie its a stalactite

get it right

[crude geode]

I still want the entire waterbolt esque line to die

[drowsy plank]

no

[frail fox]

Reworks 1 year ago

[drowsy plank]

also true fuck the waterbolts

i think the names are cool but you could just make better weapons with those names

[gilded citrus]

bruh

[drowsy plank]

which i also think should be done if they die

[crude geode]

Idgaf about reworking it just let it die as the unoriginal shitheads they are

[drowsy plank]

tears of heaven is a fucking awesome name why is it wasted on a bouncing circle

[indigo yacht]

clearly you dont understand the narrative nuances of bouncing circles

[tepid crown]

theyre not bouncing