suggestions-discussion

[thorn dock]

Used a greater luck pot and got 2 communitys back to back

[rapid pivot]

and these weapons, do you think they'd be, like, substantially weaker than the rare drop?

[mystic sandal]

i mean ideally yeah, that or they're significantly less unique

[crude geode]

“Ripping the bandaid off” is a phrase for a reason

[rapid pivot]

how long do you think it'll take for the underlying issue to be properly addressed? and why didn't you suggest the underlying issue be fixed first?

[mystic sandal]

you should be rewarded for putting in more time

(btw we shouldnt have craftable rod but thats just a side thing)

[rapid pivot]

sure, but what happens when you take that weapon into the fight? the boss fight would be substantially shorter if the weapon's that much better, right?

[thorn dock]

Greater luck potion beats zerg right? Since it has influence on Boss and non Boss loot

[mystic sandal]

yeah? you're describing how weapons are better than other weapons

[thorn dock]

Zerg ist just non Boss but has a great fun factor

[rapid pivot]

so i am - except we're describing weapons that are, in theory, at the same tier in terms of availability.

[glass arch]

(it only changes duration of the buff and also not really no)

[rapid pivot]

what you are saying here, effectively, is that players should have the option to trade a bunch of time waiting and doing the not-fun part of the game.. so that the time spent doing the fun part of the game is shorter.

spend a lot of time grinding, the not-fun thing, to get a weapon that makes the boss fight, the fun thing, take less time.

[thorn dock]

Greater luck gives u loot faster

Like zerg

Why not really?

[glass arch]

the only numerical difference between lesser and greater luck potions is duration

[thorn dock]

And it influences Boss Drops

[glass arch]

because the luck increase is really really low

[thorn dock]

Got 2 communitys out of 3 anahita at a 1% chance

I might test and kill 10 really fast

[mystic sandal]

yes, killing bosses fast (and/or efficiently) is the ultimate objective of all optimization

i consider fishing to not be fun, i get an ursa sergeant to kill the boss faster

i have spent more time doing the non-fun thing to spend less time doing the fun thing

i get angel wings, same principle there

[rapid pivot]

why are you spending more time not having fun so you can spend less time having fun

[mystic sandal]

i get reaver armor, same principle there

[rapid pivot]

wouldn't you rather just, like.. spend more time having fun

[mystic sandal]

this is how optimization works

you arent describing anything new

[rapid pivot]

is the point of a game to have fun

[mystic sandal]

do you play terraria exclusively for the boss fights

[thorn dock]

Zerg and others are fun, atleast to me

[rapid pivot]

no, but i do enjoy them, and I don't enjoy grinding.

[glass arch]

given the chance players will always optimize the fun out of the game

[thorn dock]

Farming rare critters for color is really painful without them

[rapid pivot]

i don't enjoy grinding because it's not a meaningful challenge, especially without the zerg pot, and it's slow.

[mystic sandal]

as if its a challenge with zergs

[rapid pivot]

it's more challenging facing a hundred enemies than facing like, 5 at a time every 20 seconds.

certainly a lot faster.

[mystic sandal]

how many times have you died as a result of drinking a zerg

[humble scarab]

i would suggest changing things instead, so you dont really need to use zerg

[mystic sandal]

i can tell you how many, and its less than 1

[thorn dock]

Its not challenging bc they cant harm u^^

[rapid pivot]

quite a few, more than 10-20 off the top of my head

[thorn dock]

You just have to stare longer at your screen

[rapid pivot]

now, how many times have you died to farming enemies without the zerg pot?

[mystic sandal]

zero, the same amount as ive died to farming enemies with zergs

[rapid pivot]

was it any more fun?

[glass arch]

nope

[rapid pivot]

did you have more idle time, just sitting doing nothing, bored?

[mystic sandal]

if im doing nothing, that means im not playing the game correctly

[rapid pivot]

'correctly'?

[mystic sandal]

there is a lot of stuff you can do while grinding

you do not have to afk if you dont want to

[mystic sandal]

my own definition of correct i should clarify

obviously not everyone will agree

[rapid pivot]

sure, i can do a whole bunch of things to change my gaming experience if i'm bored with how it's going

... like, say, drinking a zerg potion to make my grinding experience faster and require at least more immediate effort, even if it's much shorter.

[mystic sandal]

so lets go back to the example you were using of more time grinding = less time fighting

so you use a zerg to get that good weapon

it still does the same thing

like nothing changed about the weapon itself

you are still spending less time on the boss than you would with a regular weapon

[rapid pivot]

either way, john, if your objective is to improve how the game's drops are handled, then i'd suggest addressing the problem that makes the zerg pots necessary in the first place, rather than taking off the 'band-aid' as you call it and forcing everyone to deal with the part they'd rather avoid for months and months before you ask for the other sugg to be implemented anyway.

[rapid pivot]

correct, your point?

[glass arch]

"more immediate effort" my guy its one button

[mystic sandal]

the only thing that has changed with you using zergs is that you are playing the game less

[glass arch]

you just quick buff

[rapid pivot]

uh-huh, and how do you survive immediately after the buff comes into effect? you can't exactly stand still, especially at the point where you just get it

[mystic sandal]

you can

i have

[rapid pivot]

quality over quantity.

[glass arch]

the bandaid must be removed before the underlying issue can be solved

[rapid pivot]

but y tho

[glass arch]

piercing weapon

[rapid pivot]

enemies have ranged attacks. piercing weapons don't stop that most of the time.

[mystic sandal]

they kill them before they can use them

[glass arch]

3 blocks

[mystic sandal]

or you can just, sit in a hole

[rapid pivot]

with a zerg pot? not always a safe assumption

and is there a reason you can't do that regardless of the zerg pot's involvement?

[mystic sandal]

you can

thats the point

[rapid pivot]

then it's irrelevant - it doesn't change regardless of if the zerg pot's there or not

[mystic sandal]

it is relevant because it removes the entire "danger" of using zergs in the first place

[glass arch]

we arent saying you cant regardless
its literally just handling zergs

[rapid pivot]

and what about enemies that can hit you through walls?

[mystic sandal]

sentries?

[rapid pivot]

enchanted swords, chaos elementals

plenty of sentries that can't shoot through walls

[glass arch]

idk you can survive a couple hits from those

[rapid pivot]

also, again, why can't the underlying issue be solved first

if the underlying problem's gone, the zerg pot's use would probably go down as it'd been rendered obsolete, right

[glass arch]

because the underlying issue cannot be easily seen with zergs involvement

[rapid pivot]

isn't pointing out how the issue exists in the suggestion your job when you're writing a suggestion

[glass arch]

as long as there are enemy drops it will never be obsolete

[glass arch]

the issue the suggestion is going after is zergs zens and the candle

[rapid pivot]

you seem to be an intelligent sort, i'm sure you can explain the problem to the devs in great detail, right

oh, so there isn't an underlying issue that zergs/zen pots are covering up for?

[glass arch]

there is

and thats not what the suggestion is going after

[rapid pivot]

then why aren't you talking about that if it's the main point?

okay, so can we discard the underlying issue and just talk about the sugg on its own merits?

[fleet grotto]

just entered this discussion so i may be missing some crucial context, but like
i believe the devs want to shift away from boss-focused gameplay. keeping some of the grind in would achieve that. if you want to speed up the grind time, there are mods you can use to do that. hell, even vanilla terraria has this as a feature in journey mode. there's even things like death mode blood moon that basically does what zerg does but just better. keeping in zerg makes the grinding incredibly easy, and takes out most of the effort required to actually work towards the goal. which lets you focus on the bosses more. which is something i believe calamity wants to shift away from

[rapid pivot]

you can't both say 'we need to do this because it's a band-aid covering up greater problems and we need to resolve that' and 'we need to do this because zerg pots in themselves are bad'

[glass arch]

yes actually you can

because both are true

[crude geode]

You can kill two birds with one stone

[rapid pivot]

which issue is greater? the underlying problem, or the zerg pots?

[glass arch]

immediately? zergs

[rapid pivot]

except removing the zerg pots first makes the 'underlying issue' a whole lot greater for everyone else, and since the second issue would take more effort, it's less likely to pass

[distant gyro]

to be honest half the problem is really just that some weapons are just really good at vaporising hordes

[rapid pivot]

removing the underlying issue first would get rid of the necessity of having zerg pots

[mystic sandal]

yeah and they should be lol

like crowd control weapons are a good thing

[crude geode]

Normal enemy balance is extremely haphazard tbfh

[mystic sandal]

not every weapon should be a boss killer

[distant gyro]

but they are all designed on a boss kill time system

[rapid pivot]

by removing the zerg pots first, you may well be 'taking the band-aid off', but you're taking the band-aid off of a wound that hasn't actually healed yet

[distant gyro]

which meant all the crowd control weapons also turn out to be boss usable

[mystic sandal]

yeah and thats the weird thing

[crude geode]

Which is the biggest thorn in my side tbfh

[glass arch]

graah too many issues must fix all immediately

[rapid pivot]

if you suggest getting rid of the underlying issue first, you fix the issue that makes zerg pots worthwhile to begin with, and so make removing them less of an issue

[crude geode]

So true

[distant gyro]

exactly

[mystic sandal]

and then theres worms which just make this WAY harder

[rapid pivot]

i'm not telling you 'every issue must be fixed now', i'm saying you're getting the order wrong, and doing so in this way would make the situation worse for everyone

[distant gyro]

worms are a projection of hordes just on a boss

and you can tell by the amount of resists a worm has

[crude geode]

[rapid pivot]

so no, you can't 'kill two birds with one stone' here, because removing zerg pots does not actually kill the second bird - it just makes the other bird really really angry and peck your face constantly for hours on end, all while the exterminator will take longer to get around to it because the hostile bird's harder to deal with

[crude geode]

Saying it’s going to take longer is kind of weird

[rapid pivot]

do you think it takes more effort to remove a potion, or rework the entire drop system to get rid of this 'underlying issue' you're talking about?

[glass arch]

rework the system

[rapid pivot]

so which is gonna be harder to pass and take more time?

[glass arch]

which is why i suggested to remove zergs first

on top of me also just fucking hating zergs

[rapid pivot]

but by doing so, you force everyone to deal with the system that you acknowledge is terrible and needs to be reworked.

all while it may well take months to fix the system, assuming a sugg to 'fix' it passes at all.

[rapid pivot]

so. still 'weird'?

[crude geode]

Yes

[rapid pivot]

please explain.

do you believe removing a few items takes more effort than reworking a drop system?

[glass arch]

sure

[crude geode]

The dev team is going to have to find a solution to the underlying problem either way. Zerg existing doesn’t really influence the time scale of finding and implementing it

[rapid pivot]

but it does influence how much the issue impacts the community as a whole.

[glass arch]

so be it, they've dealt with it in vanilla it will not kill them to deal with it in cal

[rapid pivot]

by advocating for removing it, you're advocating for the community to experience the entire issue at its full brunt for the full length of time it takes for that to happen, assuming it does, ever.

[glass arch]

and if they dont want the sugg to pass get this
they wont vote for it

[rapid pivot]

in that case then, here's to hoping this discussion has at least kinda influenced their decision on the matter.

[glass arch]

ok

it probably wouldnt have

[rapid pivot]

well, this channel does exist for a reason.

[glass arch]

i went into this understanding people already wont vote for it

[rapid pivot]

well, i suppose i can't fault you into entering a lose-lose scenario.

[glass arch]

whether it passes or not i really dont care, i want the sugg to exist

[gritty plaza]

I still don't understand the zen and tranquility candles point

I would probably vote if it was just zerg and chaos

[errant wren]

uh

wow

important-ish side note

[errant wren]

i don't think a good 95% of suggestion voters go into this channel, let alone read everything

[mystic sandal]

turns out just disabling all enemy spawns

yeah, its pretty strong

i have to outright ban zen pots in my hardcore run because they make the most dangerous part, exploration, 100% free

[glass arch]

they're part of the same issue just slightly clunkier to use

[errant wren]

i feel inclined to vote for sugg now that i actually thought about it

[rapid pivot]

sure, but the devs might

[indigo yacht]

are we still talking about this i went and showered

[errant wren]

nah i just brought up a side point

that uh

[indigo yacht]

ok thats not so bad then

[rapid pivot]

the point of this channel is to talk about suggestions, feels a bit weird to complain about suggestions being discussed

[errant wren]

cal players don't read

[glass arch]

its been outright said that most devs dont actually read suggdisc (or even most suggestions) and mainly read the titles and judge the sugg off that

[indigo yacht]

💔

[rapid pivot]

most. so some still do.

[indigo yacht]

even calamity devs cant read... terrible

[golden sonnet]

I wouldn't say this is true anymore

[errant wren]

i didn't complain but go off i guess

[golden sonnet]

Not from what I've seen in dev

[rapid pivot]

wasn't talking about you, hs, more referring to meower

[glass arch]

inch resting

[idle dagger]

Looks like the word limit change had a good effect then

[glass arch]

i will say though did anybody actually expect anything to come out of a suggdisc convo

[indigo yacht]

i don't have an issue with discussion suggestions but when the discussion goes on for like an hour it's kind of excessive

[errant wren]

anyways 347 new messages when i went to check... gotta be record for me

[indigo yacht]

especially since the points seemed the exact same as they had been

[rapid pivot]

do you see any other suggestions that make a significant change to the game atm

[glass arch]

(suggestions havent meaningfully changed in length)

[errant wren]

oh yeah it was pretty circular

[glass arch]

that change mostly hit outlier suggestions (like some of xpcs old really big suggs) rather than overall lowering suggestion size

[gritty plaza]

Huh, I never found exploration terribly difficult once I got a good enough weapon

Actually wait what am I saying I'm just completely misremembering

Me when I spread misinformation online

[indigo yacht]

hellborn is too weak it should be buffed

[mystic sandal]

zen's effects are most obvious in runs like hardcore, but it exists everywhere

in general it just makes things super easy

[rapid pivot]

there is a difference between difficulty and challenge

[gritty plaza]

I was gonna say "it's nice to disable spawns if you wanna do some building" but I forgot you can just make three box houses, create a fake village, and disable spawns anyway

[mystic sandal]

see if zen was only for building id be fine with it

but unfortunately we can use potions whenever we want

[errant wren]

makes zen's effects only work if you're not holding weapons idk

[gritty plaza]

Yeah but that doesn't work cause since there are no enemies you never hold a weapon anyway

[mystic sandal]

even if we keep zergs, we should remove zens

[indigo yacht]

if nothing spawns what do you need weapons for

[errant wren]

yeah that's why it was crossed out

[mystic sandal]

if you want to have super low spawn rates, peace candle + calming potion + towns

you have cosmolights to skip blood moons

[gritty plaza]

Iirc a big enough town literally turns off enemy spawns

[indigo yacht]

it reduces them substantially

[mystic sandal]

idk the exact specifics but i think towns turn most regular enemy spawns into critter spawns

you can see this with any underground town in the shimmer

[errant wren]

add rat infestations; this would add nothing useful and it's just rats

[mystic sandal]

gem critters spawn like crazy with a zerg up

[gritty plaza]

Keep zergs but they only increase critter spawn rates

Am I cooking

[rapid pivot]

no

[glass arch]

honestly kinda

[rapid pivot]

nah, unless you can separate out golden/gem critters

[glass arch]

make it critters and town npcs and we have a deal

[indigo yacht]

finally... less config bloat...

does anyone actually play with town npcs spawns turned down

like

[gritty plaza]

No

[glass arch]

oh no keep the config just give town npcs 50x spawnrate

[indigo yacht]

would they be unwilling for the Option to be removed

i can english

[errant wren]

keep zergs but also make everything violent towards you, including critters, town npcs, and blocks

keep me out of the kitchen that was my worst idea yet

[gritty plaza]

Remove the option and set it to 10x by default

[indigo yacht]

keep the variable so other mods can change it if they like

ez

hire me as a calamity developer

i will make nothing i suck at c# programming

[errant wren]

i would hire you for 5 dollars more than minimum wage and a chocolate bar

[gritty plaza]

Remove the NPC spawn modifier config, and set it to 10x by default
There's almost no reason to have this config at anything other than the max - there's no fun or content in being forced to wait for NPCs to respawn because you summoned the destroyer too close to your house. Removing it would reduce config bloat and make sure people don't miss it and be stuck with slow respawns.

Good?

[indigo yacht]

you should probably add a line about keeping the variable in coding so rover doesnt get annoyed about cross modding

when i first posted my suggestion in #suggestions-posting it had a line about removing it from the config and they took issue with it, and i believe that was largely why

[gritty plaza]

Ah

I'll add that and put it in

[hollow shell]

DO NOT DO THAT PLEASE #suggestions-posting message

Valid sugg I just disagree with it

Calamity oversteps with QoL a lot and I don't think we need to start hard baking changes that we currently give people the option to turn off

[hollow shell]

HAH yes I was about to mention that

If some other mod is dependent on town NPC spawnrates for any kind of mechanic or balance, such as an Old Man esque NPC (or even making something dependent on the Old Man himself),
it would be thoroughly obnoxious to put it on those mod creators to add Calamity compatibility in their code
rather than just using the switch we already provide to all players

I am of the opinion that config bloat isn't a problem of making too much stuff adjustable, it's having too much stuff to adjust in the first place

Accelerated NPC spawns is not integral to the Calamity experience in any way
And would fit way more as its own mod

[frail mantle]

i remember splitting off all the QoL into its own mod that's a dependency for cal being a suggestion that was shot down back in the day

i feel like i remember fab being the one who was against it but i might be falling into the Fabsol Calamity, The Only Calamity Mod Developer pitfall again

[crude geode]

So true

[indigo yacht]

i dont think that shifting the responsibility onto the players is a much better solution

[hollow shell]

(I was quite literally going to use the phrase "Calamity Exceptionalism mentality" again but it really wasn't that long ago when we last had this conversation lol)

[grim tusk]

as one of my teachers once said:
“If your lab report is more than 10 pages long, I aint reading it”

altho in this case its more like sentences and the average person

[errant wren]

can we have an april fool's item that has an obscenely long unrelated description only for it to end with "anyways this is just a fancy dirt rod"

[eternal escarp]

stone rod

[indigo yacht]

genius

[errant wren]

get blast on the dev team immediately

[gritty plaza]

Yeah, like the meower said - if there's something that would be massively broken by changing respawn rates (and I can't really think of an example) the dev should enforce that

Like if it's that important asking the players to do it themselves unfortunately just isn't realistic

[drowsy plank]

i believe you are correct in your evaluation here

[frail mantle]

fab vetoing or me going in the pitfall

[drowsy plank]

fab veto

one of the handful of things he was actually responsible for

i might be talking out my ass here but i think the music mod dependency was a sort of test for that

[frail mantle]

yeah i thought i remembered him saying something to the effect of "why would we split it off when the qol is designed with cal in mind" or something to that effect

[glass arch]

part of it was also the question of what does and doesnt count as qol

primarily blood orbs iirc

[keen zodiac]

@nocturne plank improperly formatted

[nocturne plank]

Wha

[keen zodiac]

title needs to be separated and bolded

for the bot to work

[nocturne plank]

I see

Wait how do I make stuff bolded again

[bold crown]

two asterisks on both sides

[nocturne plank]

Oh

Tyty

[bold crown]

you can also just highlight it and it lets you do it

[keen zodiac]

alr you should be good now unless your reasoning is bad

but i can't judge that

[nocturne plank]

Ion really mind whether it gets touched or not cuz it doesn't really affect me most of the time

I js felt like posting something

[keen zodiac]

extremely fair

devs still read suggs even if they don't make it to voting

the stars are to gauge public interest

[nocturne plank]

Goated devs

[errant wren]

okay firstly

[errant wren]

just a separate line, bolding is just for looks

secondly

i don't really uh

see the point

i would've said something about scorn eaters being kind of... overtuned or whatever

[hollow shell]

(bold isn't necessary actually)

[keen zodiac]

ah interesting

[hollow shell]

@royal tapir Would you mind pinging them to tell them what's wrong with the suggestion

[royal tapir]

Oh I originally marked it for bad formatting, lemme reread it

Ehhhh, the reasoning is pretty weak but like I don't think it has to stay flagged

[hollow shell]

Gotcha thank you

[uncut fog]

I think a better reasoning might be that the scorn eaters spawn at a much higher rate than all other enemies (at least thats my impression) and lowering their spawn rate would balance it out a little to make drops from say unicorns still accessible without having to kill >15 scorn eaters per unicorn

[river lily]

#suggestions-posting message

https://tenor.com/view/carefully-he's-true-hes-true-you-know-gif-2530337019758775981

Look man calming potions and battle potions exist already and they're ways to reduce the tedium of grinding that are far more balanced than these glupshittos are

🥀

[plush flame]

what if they cost 2500 defender medals each

[obsidian nova]

John idle games, Overdone, I have great news for you

[crude geode]

@inland saddle bot is kill

[novel belfry]

Oooo

[drowsy plank]

@teal yarrow please read the rules in the pins

[teal yarrow]

is this about the overpowered or underpowered

[drowsy plank]

read the rules

[teal yarrow]

???
i GENUINELY dont know

please enlighten me

like no joke

[drowsy plank]

did you actually read the document in the pins fully

[teal yarrow]

oh the doc

gimme a sec

[drowsy plank]

[indigo yacht]

t

[teal yarrow]

is it because specific rework suggest

i feel very in danger

[drowsy plank]

it is also a reference suggestion and a balance suggestion

[teal yarrow]

oke

my bad

[gilded citrus]

Isnt murasama planned a lot of rework stuff already as well

[drowsy plank]

it is literally the explicit example of what not to do for references on the doc and also yeah mura has a massive rework planned already

[teal yarrow]

oh my god i just fucking read the doc

and i saw

like

most of the doc

and my suggestion was literally an example of what NOT to do

https://tenor.com/view/no-oh-the-horror-mortified-no-no-no-my-name-is-earl-gif-5376630

i will fucking self mute for a month

goodbye

[lucid marsh]

Hah
Alright

[tepid crown]

@fickle dock please read the pinned document

[fickle dock]

thanks

although my suggestion broke the specific item/balance criteria, i believe, and hope it still falls under this case maybe?

[tepid crown]

please read two rules down...

[umbral gazelle]

oh absolutely no

i DONT want it to be locked post yharon

[fickle dock]

OH SHI I GOT CONFUSED

i MEAN ASTRAL BARS

[umbral gazelle]

a

[fickle dock]

they kinda look alike so im sorry for this

[umbral gazelle]

no its ok

[hollow shell]

The rule being violated is Future Content

You're not supposed to make suggestions reacting to changelogs

[distant gyro]

it also misses the point, just an fyi

[hollow shell]

Because the update isn't
out yet

You don't know what the game looks/plays like in the next update, you can't make an informed suggestion

[distant gyro]

moving the instant time manipulation item later into progression is the core change

[hollow shell]

Yeah true

[fickle dock]

thanks for pointing it out, although im not a dev, but i do believe moving cosmolight in the future updates is kinda of a major change

i dont want to sound disrespectful towards your passion on the development of the mod, of course, im just saying as someone who has been playing for a year

cosmolight is realy really great and i do understand the change, but saying from my past playthroughs, it kinda becomes pointless not so long after astrum deus

[crude geode]

Again, you don’t have knowledge of how it plays or what else is contained in that update. Trying to comment on it is fine, but flat out saying you want this or that change for something without having the full context of the update is jumping the gun.

[fickle dock]

yeah, i agree with you, my mistake on that, i really anticipated my judgment on that

[hollow shell]

I'm also not a dev but I have argued to nerf Cosmolight in the past

It gives the player too much control, completely trivializing the day-night cycle only 1/3 of the way through the game.
Moving it to the tier where it becomes "pointless" is the best place to put it, in a way. Because then it's useful for just the residual annoying edge cases that you shouldn't need to struggle with anymore that late in the game.

[distant gyro]

along with portable sundial probably spoiled a majority of modded players on the day and night cycle being non existent feature

[errant wren]

-# it's also kinda funny that the new functionality is also just two jojo references in a trench coat but that's completely besides the point

[crude geode]

Also, there is an item for manipulating time in early hm. It’s changelog #721, Bakidon. Allows you to freeze time for longer/more attempts.

[distant gyro]

its also funny how you jumped from beds (5x time) to fuck it you can jump to any time all the time

[frail mantle]

it's like how in the factorio dlc you only get a way to pave over special lakes and oceans on the new planets once you've pretty much beaten the game

you'll still have to deal with the challenges that come with their existence, but if you're in the endgame and you just want more space you have the tools to neutralize them

[hollow shell]

((tbf Cosmolight faaar predates vanilla adding beds speeding up time

Cosmolight was not implemented with bed speed-up's existence in mind))

[frail mantle]

guy who just played factorio: this situation reminds me of factorio

[errant wren]

i was there in those days. crazy how much has changed.

[distant gyro]

it however did exist at the same plane of existence as enchanted sundial

and completely kills it

[errant wren]

example: i'm a girl now

[crude geode]

It really was wild how it instantly obliterated that item

[hollow shell]

It's actually crazy how uhhh
restricted
Enchanted Sundial is

I was gonna say "balanced", but I almost feel like the 1 week cooldown is too much

I don't think I have ever unironically used Enchanted Sundial for any practical purpose
in my several thousand hours of gameplay

[fickle dock]

is it like an "nerfed" cosmolight, just with less time manipulation functions isnt? (english is not my main language so i might have struggle in interpreation)

[frail mantle]

i have used it to craft portable sundial in emode

😁

[oblique birch]

1 week is so long

[fickle dock]

lexie suggestestion was to lower to 2/3 days i believe

or was it yours kiri

[distant gyro]

it granting ability to skip events without cooldown is a pretty helpful buff

[oblique birch]

I rememeber when I was solely using it I kept clicking on it like every day hope it'd work but the cooldown still hasn't ended yet

[oblique birch]

What no not me

[fickle dock]

oh mb

[keen zodiac]

DAMN that was fast

already a reversion sugg

[fickle dock]

what

clearing my mind i realized that all the other changes can compensate the cosmolight thing so i believe my suggestion is pointless now, but thanks everyone for elaborating, hope the next update will be amazing

[oblique birch]

It'll be amazing

[indigo yacht]

please note: the cooldown is reset upon blood moons/solar eclipses so you can always skip them (i did not know this either until earlier today)

[half imp]

Well, specifically only on natural ones

but yes

[silver mulch]

How is it that someone was allowed to ask for a specific wing hover accessory, but my suggestion gets deleted when I ask for an infinite flight one?

[frail fox]

Draedon weapons aren’t gonna use charge in the future thankfully

[warm juniper]

why

was lowkey a cool feature

[novel belfry]

i'd say it was a stupid and annoying feature, the way it was implemented

[silver mulch]

Even better

Damn... last 2 suggestions I made for journey mode got invalidated by something better.

I can't really complain.

[novel belfry]

like thats how it was

[silver mulch]

In hindsight, I think the draedon cells should have been a consumable like ammo or something.

I dunno, I didn't make them up

[frail fox]

It’s gonna be used for other things to be clear, but just not the weapons

[dense locust]

it was a tacked on annoyance to use draedon weapons
it was a chore at best and massively debilitating at worst

[drowsy plank]

the most optimal way to use charge weapons was to craft like three of them and switch off whenever one went under like 80% charge they sucked

[indigo yacht]

charge just shouldnt have affected damage

...hey wait a minute

[drowsy plank]

then it's pointless

oh boy my weapon that needs to arbitrarily be shoved in a station for literally no reason every 2 irl days worth of gameplay

[novel belfry]

if i had to keep the charge mechanic, i'd have the weapons charge up on their own, no power station needed

it'd also be a lot faster than right now, and the charge cost would probably be much stronger

[indigo yacht]

what if we did ammo but for every weapon and also extra tedious

just make them nonconsumable

idk make it so that you can insert different types of power cells that do different things

[silver mulch]

Terraria already kind of has a mechanic for that. It's called mana.

[crude geode]

doesn't that kinda kill the whole point of it

[silver mulch]

It does indeed

[novel belfry]

I'd say it would only work if the weapons were designed to be rather powerful for their tiers, but would eat up their charge so you'd have to swap to other weapons

that. however, is kinda crackpotty

[indigo yacht]

oh so its just like

[crude geode]

the original weapons

[indigo yacht]

...mana again

[crude geode]

where you make multiple copies

or it's just mana

[indigo yacht]

ok obviously it wouldnt be like that

[novel belfry]

oh right

i didnt account for that...

darn. maybe we need to remove charge after all

[indigo yacht]

the nefarious 'apply cooldown to all weapons of the same type'

[errant wren]

right-click to overclock but also render all weapons of the same type unusable for a set duration

[indigo yacht]

that seems more like a one off gimmick than a weapon type i think

[errant wren]

yeah idk i'm not a game designer

i'm just funny ideaswoman

[indigo yacht]

didnt laugh. you lie.

[errant wren]

[half imp]

The issue with charge is power cells

if they were actually interesting it would be fine

but it's just place factory and Waiting

[celest olive]

chat rate my new suggestion (reordering the ingredients of two items that people uncommonly use)

[oblique birch]

uh, not needed

those recipes are dying

[celest olive]

i cast "stfu"

wait

what

fuck

why do i never know this beforehand

[oblique birch]

rude?

what was that even for?

[celest olive]

well i said it before i registered you saying the reason

i thought you just said "unneeded" despite a lot of suggestions being minor stuff like that

mb

thought bro was just calling my suggestion pointless 😭

[lucid marsh]

Hey wait

What if instead of charge getting consumed over time...

It built up over time while you attack, and decayed while you weren't attacking

No more power cells, it's just that

[keen zodiac]

@celest olive all those weapon recipes are fucking dying

on account of rotten matter and blood samples being removed

[distant gyro]

i think this is just a wiki thing

[celest olive]

...so you don't have any charge when you don't use the weapon

and you can't use the weapon

[distant gyro]

https://github.com/CalamityTeam/CalamityModPublic/blob/1.4.4/Items/SummonItems/BloodyWormFood.cs

[celest olive]

yeah no fuck this im deleting the suggestion

[distant gyro]

bar -> sample -> vertebrae

[celest olive]

bad wiki

stinky

[distant gyro]

accidental ocd triggering

[lucid marsh]

That's not how that works

But also it wouldn't matter either way. I'm saying the weapons should start with zero charge and gain charge (and thus damage) the longer you attack with them

(even currently, the arsenal weapons can be used without charge, they just do less damage the less charge they have)

[celest olive]

wait wtf they can?

oh im stupid

[keen zodiac]

@blissful tulip incorrect formatting + no resprite suggestions

there's a whole asset submissions thing in the cal art server

[blissful tulip]

im new to this 😭

mb

ill remake it a bit better when the slowmode finishes

feel like this would look a lot better (the current sprite for when ur falling)

[keen zodiac]

yeah all aerospec stuff needs respriting

ik the weapons and armor are in the works, so i'd assume wings are too

[keen zodiac]

also there's a google doc with the suggesting rules

[blissful tulip]

also idk if u would be able to help but i have a 30 stack of potions in my inv but i still need to drink them individually

[keen zodiac]

that's a fargo's mutant thing

not calamity

[blissful tulip]

yeah i got fargos mutant installed

[keen zodiac]

enable it in configs

[blissful tulip]

i swear if its disabled 😭

they were there just hidden

bru

well that solves that

[humble scarab]

#suggestions-posting message
This suggestion is 🔥 but not sure if its against the rules

[keen zodiac]

it'll probably just get locked immediately if i had to guess

[tiny minnow]

How would they work with Summoner?

[keen zodiac]

just remove the carpet bruh

it's not worth it

[frozen kite]

how do i remove the carpet when its built into the boots….

[gilded citrus]

They telling devs to i think

[frozen kite]

ah

[oblique birch]

Total Auric carpet dead

Needs more carpet style accs

That aren't Auric Boots

[indigo yacht]

if auric armor triggers the carpet by pressing up i will never use auric again

[drowsy plank]

there's no way auric carpet isnt dead next update

all the other accessories died already

[distant gyro]

its dying as ssoon as auric is reworked which there isn't a definite time when that'd happen

contrary to the fact the keyboard doubbled up and happened to type sso

double double

[last shard]

I do disagree with this in terms of a health thing, since they're both extremely helpful for people who do not have the desire to just bloat out their play time with hunting particular enemies as well as for those who enjoy not being annoyed by the little roomba bots in their Lab builds.

These are also functions that are used to replace the far less healthy habits- AFK farms and requiring NPCs to have a safe zone- one just is the same ultimate effect as the Zerg/Chaos but just requires walking away from your computer, and one is just having to have NPCs in your builds just to avoid getting harassed.

So these act as way more effective ways to nullify out needless grind, as well as to nullify out needless combat- both being used when the content being negated isn't really challenging either to begin with

[gilded citrus]

why would an armour set punish you for using it later in the game then when you get it

[errant wren]

something something prehm armor in late hardmode progression idk

[gilded citrus]

???

[lucid marsh]

I wasn't sure either so I posted it in the chance that it is allowed

[mystic sandal]

the thing is, zen doesnt only nullify the meaningless combat

if im in hardmode on my hardcore run and drink a zen

literally how can i die

[last shard]

Probably from the various bosses that can still aptly kick someone's shins for progression, and also during the downtime when Zen is disabled because they're not getting a large amount of the drops for capability growth

[gilded citrus]

To traps or lava or bosses or anything but basic enemies

[last shard]

Like. If you're using Zen to avoid dying in caving expeditions then you can already be perfectly safe using hooks and dynamite or having a Summoner setup to just passively kill enemies in your vicinity for you in some later spots

So like, functionally it's not making any processes less healthy- you're actually incentivized to use mining and more creative use armors and accessories more instead to speed up your projects rather than having to repeatedly back in and out of combats while building something.

[mystic sandal]

and you have to actively go out of your way to do those things

[last shard]

Or just making enemies not matter anyway by using Summoner setups.

[mystic sandal]

summoner gives you lower defense if you want minions to kill most enemies

[last shard]

Oh you have lower defense? Bro what's going to hit you

[mystic sandal]

dynamite, obviously, requires you to actively throw dynamite, putting yourself at risk

[last shard]

Dynamite is no risk lmao

Have ya never built a hellevator with that

[mystic sandal]

traps? giant tortoises? moss hornets? black recluses? red devils?

regular enemies are scary in early hardmode

plus, as you said, you can already negate spawns when building by just moving some npcs in

[last shard]

Building in houses for NPCs to move in and then just waiting, then having to reorganize them again for pylon purposes, sucks.

[mystic sandal]

you arent using every single npc in your world for pylons

we both know that

[last shard]

If you're fresh into early HM, exploration is way more important than construction- that can easily be met anyway sooner too.

[mystic sandal]

correct, exploration is more important

[last shard]

Lmao I do. I set some up in each biome and try to get the good rates on each.

[mystic sandal]

zen pots take out the most dangerous part of exploration

[last shard]

Enemies make up much of the reward in Early HM exploration.

Yes, it's no risk. It's also completely devoid of most rewards.

Everything you can get from a Zen Pot in that situation you can also just get via fishing or other methods as well.

[mystic sandal]

the reward is being able to get as many hardmore ores and crystal shards and whatever you want with no downside

[gilded citrus]

Fishing:

[last shard]

When were either of those resources hard to get anyway???

[mystic sandal]

fishing takes a LOT of time

[glass arch]

waiter waiter more zen/zerg discussion please

[mystic sandal]

like a fucking LOT

unless you use fargos in which case you can use 5 lure gold rod

[glass arch]

im glad people are talking about it i guess

[last shard]

...wasn't this about your post XD

[glass arch]

yes

[last shard]

:D

[mystic sandal]

im coming at zens from the perspective of someone doing a hardcore run rn

obviously in hardcore you want to minimize risks whenever possible

but theres very few things that are actually guaranteed to minimize risk

zen is one of those things

and one of the most effective, at that

[gilded citrus]

How much does zen reduce spawns compared to calming pot + peace candle togetger

[mystic sandal]

while also being EXTREMELY easy

[last shard]

Zen reduces spawn rate by 60% and max enemy cap by 70% acc to wiki

[mystic sandal]

this is roughly 47% normal spawn rates

zen + calming reduces it to 24%

while also requiring less effort since you dont have to place down a peace candle

[last shard]

Also like Tranquil candle is fine anyway since it needs Cores of Eleum which uh

At what point are you actually in danger of enemies when you're literally right up close to Exos

[mystic sandal]

well first of all its post-plant not post-dog

[gilded citrus]

????

Post plant aint post dog

[last shard]

Ah wait, wrong thing

Was looking at endothermic

[gilded citrus]

💀

[last shard]

But main point still stands- post-plant puts you at beyond the dangers of the majority of exploration dangers no?

[gilded citrus]

Other then like dungeon

Which

By post plant you want the enemies

[mystic sandal]

if you're in hardmode, you are always vulnerable to a giant tortoise fucking exploding you instantly

or whatever the plague variant is called

[glass arch]

calming+peace reduces it to around 60% spawnrate because its multiplicative and around 40% max spawns (also multiplicative) if my math is correct
zen on its own reduces to 40% spawnrate and 30% max spawns

[mystic sandal]

zen doesnt reduce to 60%, it reduces by 60%

[last shard]

Still a risk with a Zen too, just more rarely

[mystic sandal]

so if you use zen + tranquil + calming

[gilded citrus]

So via vanilla means you can get the same effect effectively

?

[last shard]

Which is fine- it's not outright disabling spawning, and if you're stacking on so many spawn rate droppers then not having them spawn at all is a decent payout for the cost

[mystic sandal]

what cost

[glass arch]

no, zen has an overall 20% lower spawnrate and 10% lower spawn cap

[mystic sandal]

the cost is blood orbs and thats free

(which is partially due to zerg)

[last shard]

Again, considering post-plant means you've already probably kicked enough turtle ass to be provably past that point

[gilded citrus]

Effectively
Not literal same

[last shard]

And blood orbs are used because herbs/fishing for potions exclusively sucks as a system, which is the appeal of these. Ramp up the cost for a fair effect? That's fine- if you're getting "free" blood orbs via being strong enough to chug down Battle/Zerg and a Water Candle for them then that's a fine payoff.

That's not dissimilar from kicking up a lower tier boss to farm for building mats

[mystic sandal]

do building mats get you +1 summoning slots and +10% damage

[last shard]

Or easy money

[last shard]

Indirectly it can provide combat buffs too- cheap mats like Demonite sell for a decent penny in earlygame for upgraded munitions, and you can just repeatedly slap down some easy chump like Perferators for easy cash to buy a Bewitching Table for the minion slot too

[glass arch]

you're at max 60 enemies with zen, max somewhere around 80 with peace+calming
assuming you have all pre-slime god vanilla npcs those reduce by about 20, not counting potential passive npc spawns

meaning with ONLY zen there is a potential maximum of 40 enemies in the entire world which is really really low

[last shard]

And you're also still able to just buy out wings from some NPCs that way too. Hell, I didn't even use a boss on my old run

Lab Turrets make useful mob farms

[gilded citrus]

Cant you just place these about to reduce the risk of enemies as well

[last shard]

Also uh, as a reminder lab turrets also exist, are obtainable infinitely pre-boss, and also can nullify a bunch of enemy spawns while also giving drops- just in a static area via damage support

[glass arch]

yes but also they're not very good outside of early game

[last shard]

So like what does Zen even do comparatively besides "skip grind"

[last shard]

The knockback alone makes it shut off the big hazard enemies who get thrown out of their attacks on knockback

And you can just spam a ton of them anyway

[gilded citrus]

Their main example (tortoises) get stunned by kb so does it really not do much?

[last shard]

And arguably even then just run summoner, make creative armors suck arse because you can't ever leave summoner armor while building things

[mystic sandal]

because lining your entire world with turrets is a comparable investment to drinking a potion

[glass arch]

anyways i think another thing is like
ok lets say there are all these other ways to do so that are comparable in ease to drinking a potion
does that not mean zen potions are irrelevant and wouldnt matter if they get removed

[gilded citrus]

You can do it in high risk areas to reduce the amount needed

[mystic sandal]

would you

[last shard]

It's extra annoying when building something and random events like goblin invasions, blood moons, and Solar Eclipses happen is also just a pain and bypasses NPC towns, and also are events where enemies are the loot. Being forced to drop everything to deal with the event so you can keep building is fine in early game where day/night is a good way to get players to explore and expand during day/night respectively.

[mystic sandal]

be completely honest, if zens were removed, would you do any of these things in an actual playthrough

[gilded citrus]

I dont play hardcore so idk

[mystic sandal]

im playing hardcore and banning zens

never have i considered lining my underground jungle with turrets

or placing peace candles everywhere for reduced spawn rates

[gilded citrus]

What are you doing pre mech that requires underground jungle so much

[mystic sandal]

life fruit

[gilded citrus]

Oh right

[last shard]

Not really- Zen potions are essentially being shown as the healthy alternative. I absolutely do the turret thing since they're so cheap and also give me a notice where enemies are as well so I can not have to run summoner 24/7

Plus I hate bats

[glass arch]

no zens are the Unhealthy Alternative

[last shard]

And bat-like enemies

[glass arch]

because you dont put any effort into them

[last shard]

Kind of. It's essentially people actively showing a part of the game they don't want to deal with and making them deal with it more.

[glass arch]

you put effort into not dealing with a part of the game you dont like rather than just ignoring it

[last shard]

So they start figuring workarounds because it's no longer an enjoyable aspect to get turtle murked for twentieth time

[glass arch]

id say thats better

[last shard]

If it was a progression matter, I'd agree.

But... it's often not.

A lot of why they're used is for non-progression purposes

[glass arch]

other methods that require effort are far better than drink a potion and now you dont ever need to think about enemies

[mystic sandal]

is it not way more interesting to have to put a ton of effort into finding workarounds than drinking literally one potion

[errant wren]

blood moon doesn't really pose much of a threat with the nefarious box technique, not that i would know how that contributes to the conversation

[mystic sandal]

also yeah blood moon/zergs kinda dont have downsides rn since you can control when they happen

maybe in sso it'll be more dangerous because cosmolight wont exist until post deus but

[glass arch]

that doesnt fix the issue of crowd control weapons

[last shard]

I like building arenas and such, and it kind of annoys more than enhances the thing with trying to just build creatively. I'm already having to gather and carve out the resources and space, am I supposed to just wait until endgame to be able to build?

[mystic sandal]

i also like building arenas

i have fun planning out farms for the resources i need to get

[glass arch]

they're all balanced around boss killtimes so crowd control weapons are suddenly really fucking overpowered at crowd control

[last shard]

Or do I have to constantly just deal with enemies making the whole process more annoying or worse frustrating than enjoyable at all

[mystic sandal]

im currently designed a ruby crawler killer in my hellevator to farm bast statues and heart lanterns

dealing with the enemies is part of building

that is a risk inherent to the game

and if zens only worked for building, i really would not care

but potions cant have restrictions on when you use them

there's always gonna be points where people use them in ways they arent intended to be used

LOOKING AT YOU FEATHERFALL

[errant wren]

i've built an arena during a masochist fargo's night so it's not like dealing with enemies is that hard

[glass arch]

put effort in now -> things are easier later

[errant wren]

because i suck at the game

[last shard]

It's not hard, that's what makes it an appeal. It's not a challenge or anything it's just annoying.

[glass arch]

rather than
kill a pretty large progression boss -> never struggle with enemies again

[errant wren]

it's not really that annoying either

[last shard]

Maybe it's a preference thing. I get annoyed being able to focus on what I want to make and repeatedly having to go "okay so I ca- nope gotta kill that- okay so now I can do this an- nope gotta kill that"

Part of the appeal of turret spam was just "finally I can focus"

[crude geode]

Are we still arguing about the zen and Zerg potion sugg

[errant wren]

apparently yeah

[crude geode]

Christ

[indigo yacht]

🥀

[last shard]

Alright, fine, I'll shut it

[errant wren]

i honestly go either way on the sugg because the last time i used either was like

[crude geode]

It’s fine to dislike the sugg but nothing about it is really invalid

[errant wren]

2 years ago

[idle dagger]

I mean I think it’s a good thing to see discussion about it, I’d rather people get their points across than have a suggestion recieve 0 discussion and get no votes and die

[crude geode]

It’s only been discussed like three times and mostly argued about how “I like this item no pls :(“

[errant wren]

what if we rework zerg and zen to unlock two parts of journey mode's spawn multiplier slider

literally kill me

[crude geode]

What if we rework HS’s hands

[errant wren]

never let me type again

[glass arch]

byeah i went into making the suggestion knowing people wouldnt vote for it

[idle dagger]

fair enough
might as well try anyway

[errant wren]

something so controversial yet so brave

[crude geode]

The people need to hear it

[last shard]

I'm not saying that sounds like a good/bad idea...

I'm just wondering would that even be reasonably possible to code?

[errant wren]

i would assume that yes very

[last shard]

Like, compared to how much it'd be used

[golden sonnet]

I don't necessarily agree with the zenzerg suggestion, but I don't disagree with it either and think it's worth considering

[errant wren]

zerg and zen are honestly just kind of there, in my imo

[glass arch]

in my in my opinion

[errant wren]

yeah

[crude geode]

Smh my head

[misty lichen]

really they’re just another case of

calamity mod didnt like how weak a vanilla item was so they added a new item thats the vanilla item but better, instead of buffing the vanilla item

[half imp]

no

post plant buffs 1 moon event and adds 2 more available

Plus the dungeon

[crude geode]

The dungeon is the only threat exploration wise post plant

[half imp]

Plus the post ML dungeon enemies, post ML hallow enemies, and eventually distortion enemies

Plus the post golem plague enemies

[crude geode]

The one (1) post ml dungeon enemy

(No the variants of the enemy do not count it’s the same guy)

Post ML hallow isn’t a threat considering mobility atp. Underworld is honestly a bigger threat from confined space + scorn eater

[half imp]

true but it's the same enemies

oh also post plant has lihzard temple

And there's two tiers of abyss beyond that point

[crude geode]

Lihzard temple I would agree

Any space that confines you post plant is scary, everything else your mobility is so insane that it’s hard to make threats outside of like. Plague miniboss.

Especially if you have a space carved out for plantera to farm plague

[indigo yacht]

me when i mine around the temple and rod of discord into the altar room

[glass arch]

counterpoint Ancient forces prevent you from accessing this location...

[indigo yacht]

then kill plantera

[half imp]

we should make rod into the temple instantly spawn old lore yharim

[crude geode]

Make it spawn dungeon guardian colored green

[keen zodiac]

true

[half imp]

Primordial Lihzahrd

[remote maple]

What if we added the funny number knives from monster hunter

[obsidian nova]

Wait for real?

[humble scarab]

Yea, i think vanilla added that

[obsidian nova]

Toil and trouble

[fleet grotto]

Make Yharon's first aytack after a subphase transition consistent
Some of Yharon's subphases (mainly in phase 1 from what I've observed) tend to start using their cycle of attacks by starting in a random order. If a player is playing aggressively and wants to damage Yharon as much as possible during these transitions, they are often put into a gamble: dash right after the transition ends to avoid the two short dashes? Or wait for a roar to dash? If you pick the wrong option, you get hit. If the post-transition attack started at the same spot in the order consistently, players wouldn't have to make this gamble.

is there anything wrong with this

[olive saddle]

aytack

[fleet grotto]

im explosioning

[olive saddle]

get bigger hands

[last shard]

Tbh I do like with these two in particular that they use Purified Gel rather than JUST Blood Orbs, like Calming. At least for the effect tying it behind Slime Gods, which isn't that far. Credit where it's due, it could be fair to simply move up Zen/Zerg farther up the chain a little bit- although Slime God does kind of fit it's two-tone theme

Like someone else mentioned with things like Factorio's lake bridges or the ingame candles requiring Post-Plant, these are generally just great for when exploration is a chore more than a challenge because you're so far ahead of them or for when the enemy risk is what makes the drops rather than a bundle of chests or diggable ores.

[last shard]

Abyss, I dunno if I'd count

Especially lower layer, like yeah it's really dangerous via enemies but what loot are they really gonna be getting from that which is so valuable via using Zen

Esp since from what I can tell, the loot there is pretty much about the same level as post-Slime God/Skeletron (a boss required for Zen pots anyway)

And even then, I've gotten Terminus long before then before just with air pockets and some pre-boss ocean loot

[half imp]

Scoria ore

[last shard]

Ah yeah that's fair

Although it is also possible to get via fishing again as well, fairly reliably.

But that's sort of rubberbanding the age old problem of fishing as a bypass for most ores being a limited resource anyway more than pro/anti Zen/Zerg

[half imp]

fishing for it also takes like, way longer

[last shard]

Ehhh, that one might be player dependent if mostly because Zen doesn't fully null out threat- just mostly- and the Abyss has a bunch of tricks that makes even some lower enemy counts quite dangerous just by environment and breathing problems if I remember right, but you can also just get enough Hydrothermals pre-Golem and crack them open post-Golem as well- also potentially giving a bunch of drops related to other boss/event progression

But in that regard, that feels more like it's just a secondary problem more than a "what about this method" I guess?

[glass arch]

planned already @compact yew

[gilded citrus]

and also kelaidoscope is busted damage boost, its multiplicative damage boost for some reason not flat damage boost

[compact yew]

oh! Well That's nice.

Do you want me to remove the suggestion?

[errant wren]

might be for the best

[glass arch]

probably yeah

[compact yew]

Removed!

Thanks for telling me

[glass arch]

it would likely just get marked with a check or lock

[errant wren]

yeah whips are planned for...

eventually™

[glass arch]

byeah even if it was flat it would still be good

(also its multiplicative because its summon crits. thats what crits do they multiply damage)

[compact yew]

I'm just saying that using the same vanilla whip for the entire game till the Endgame seems weird.

[glass arch]

its utility doesnt come from its own damage it comes from the tag effect

[errant wren]

balance shenanigans

[compact yew]

I know.

[gilded citrus]

its cause balancing

[compact yew]

I'd just like to see a cool Calamity whip

[glass arch]

its primarily because balancing and also partially because they arent even certain how they would go about making them interesting iirc

[errant wren]

clearly we put kaleidoscope as a post-dog drop for EoL

[fleet grotto]

can i get any opinions on my suggestion? i feel like they're always ignored and I wanna know what people think about hem sometimes

[errant wren]

i'd say it's alright

[crude geode]

It feels like the most speedrunner/nohitter try hard shit but it’s not like it breaks any rules

[errant wren]

i'm not entirely sure since it's been... at least a year since i fought yharon

[fleet grotto]

i just ESPECIALLY noticed it in my most recent challenge playthrough (2x speed) and it was a huge problem because yharon is very prediction based since you often cant react in time. and this simply stuck out like a sore thumb

[half imp]

I think it makes sense and

yeah

[errant wren]

about this sugg...

uh

i have no real opinion but i just feel like there's something about it

[crude geode]

Probably the fact it has little reasoning, especially compared to implementation methods

Also there is some Wulfrum lore in their bestiary logs, that being they were used to fight against Yharim’s army

[glass arch]

and lore related to them in the weapon tooltips

[keen zodiac]

add john wulfrum
70 morbillion stars

[glass arch]

its not that complicated of a thing, people need(ed) a cheap material, wulfrum is made, congrats now people just do random shit because wulfrum is cheaper than dirt

[keen zodiac]

i get where they're coming from, bc for being the first and most iconic regular enemies you'll encounter they're shockingly irrelevant

but they don't really need more

[glass arch]

they're like idk zombies in vanilla

[crude geode]

Zombies is a good comparison yeah

[glass arch]

they're The Guys and not much more than that because they dont need to be much more than that

[plush flame]

wulfrum overhaul mod where we get wulfrum gear throughout the game and we can fight draedon's first exo mech xw-22 wartarus

[glass arch]

werewulfrum

[keen zodiac]

wulfrum miniboss

[glass arch]

sadly i could not find my old screenshot of werewulfrum...

[gilded citrus]

Wulfrum does have lore
Not much
But it is there
Robots to annoy the yharmy

[frozen kite]

yharmy is such a humorous term….

[vestal crater]

John Wulfrum

[keen zodiac]

TRUE

[half imp]

Wulfrum Excavator

[keen zodiac]

wulfrum...

spider

[frozen kite]

being so deadass a wulfrum mini boss would be cool….

[indigo yacht]

not really

[latent verge]

No, a wulfrum boss/miniboss would be interesting, right now, the wulfrum enemies have their own equipment set but nothing that really ties them into the rest of the game apart from that. They're just a source of early game equipment, when they could be something a bit more.

[indigo yacht]

boss slop

give the wulfrum robots an interesting mechanic that a boss could play with and make the rest of the bosses not terrible and then maybe

[gilded citrus]

The devs will not add any new bosses other then yharim and maybe xeroc/noxus

and they are literally the last plans they have

[drowsy plank]

why?

they're a source of early game equipment because that is what they were designed to do

they're incredibly weak fodder robots made by some guy in a failed attempt to make any meaningful attributions to the war and now they're just aimless and wandering around

why do they need any more content or lore than that?

[latent verge]

I'm not saying they need more lore, and this isn't an issue I feel especially strongly about, but I think that it feels a bit weird that an enemy type added by the mod with a significant range of equipment associated with them effectively stops being relevant almost immediately after you beat a boss or two. Also, I think that a miniboss would make more sense than a full boss.

[drowsy plank]

idk there's plenty of things that only last for a tier or so

it's not like we're gonna get a stormlion boss or something

oh wait there's a better example

black recluse in vanilla hardmode

they make a lot of stuff for summoner but it's not like they get anything else after that

sometimes you just have a single set of items for a single tier, and that's it

rover drive has upgrades i guess but not everything needs to have ties through the entire game

[latent verge]

Stormlions are one enemy, and they drop a material used for a boss summon.

[gilded citrus]

Arent stormlions becoming an entire sunsection of antlions and not just one enemy

[drowsy plank]

think so

[plush flame]

hey devs you gotta make a spider boss now that someone's realised

[drowsy plank]

LOL

[gilded citrus]

Flying ones and baby grub ones i have seen sprites of

[drowsy plank]

they're in the future cal content doc yeah

[tepid crown]

yes, just like antlions

also this suggestion is just wrong the wulfrums have lore

[gilded citrus]

Been mentioned multiple times

[tepid crown]

then it should probably be flagged for being flat out incorrect

[drowsy plank]

that is a fair point actually

[gilded citrus]

Lol

Wulfrum doesnt need more stuff gameplay wise especially not in the boss/miniboss category imo

And its lore is already there

[drowsy plank]

@jovial magnet this doesn't really have any reasoning, and it is inaccurate about the wulfrum robots just "being there". they were designed as tools of resistance against yharim's army, and their bestiary entries detail this. calamity isn't going to be making any more bosses, and even if wulfrum would actually somehow benefit from a miniboss, we already have a pre-Boss miniboss in the form of giant clam.

[indigo yacht]

perforator

🎉

[gilded citrus]

Perfs arent spider

[drowsy plank]

well if you count addons

[gilded citrus]

They prob becoming hydra

[tepid crown]

giant clam isnt pre boss, theyre post ds (for now)

[drowsy plank]

lmao

[gilded citrus]

I dont they arent calamity

[tepid crown]

next update therell be two pre boss minibosses tho

so

[drowsy plank]

same difference you get my point

wulfrum excavator real adds nothing to the game

[tepid crown]

clearly we need a two phase boss fight with john and jane wulfrum and their wulfrum mothership

[gilded citrus]

True

[icy hatch]

sorry to ping you but is this doc public and if so where can i find it?

[drowsy plank]

#calamity-update-talk message

[velvet lark]

definitely need a giant wulfrum gyrator that takes up half the screen

[hard vector]

but what about lab plating furniture set guys!!!

[velvet lark]

nahhhh

dirt furniture set

[hard vector]

instahousing individual

[icy hatch]

ty!!!

[tepid crown]

@inland saddle bot is dead (also did u figure out the error u were getting last time?)

[plush flame]

the world core that keeps terraria spinning

[errant wren]

wulfrum invasion event

where the enemies just use the wulfrum arsenal

[drowsy plank]

@kind laurel tools that also reforge to legendary should still be able to get light or have light and legendary be equivalent due to rounding

not to mention some tools work as weapons and would still need to be able to access legendary

like butcher's chainsaw, or the exo chainsaw

[kind laurel]

I added a workaround to that in the post?

[indigo yacht]

how does one determine what's intended to be a weapon

[kind laurel]

the devs do ig

[indigo yacht]

without a hardcoded list

[drowsy plank]

light is already something you can get on tools on par with legendary in calamity?

[indigo yacht]

that's not what i mean

[glass arch]

does it have tool power

[kind laurel]

it is? I remember trying it and getting legendary

[drowsy plank]

yes it definetly is ive done it

[glass arch]

if the answer is no then its a weapon

[kind laurel]

ig ignore it if it already exists

[drowsy plank]

you'll need to reroll legendary

[errant wren]

what if i wanted to copper pickaxe an enemy

[indigo yacht]

we are talking about things like the butchers chainsaw

[drowsy plank]

it will likely swap between the two a la highest accessory modifiers

[glass arch]

it has axe power so it would be considered a tool

[drowsy plank]

if a tool is missing access to light then something probably messed up

[glass arch]

the only list is a blacklist for certain items being not counted as tools for summoner damage penalty

[indigo yacht]

that is not what is being talked about either

[glass arch]

what

you asked how it would be determined if it was a weapon or not without a hardcoded list

[indigo yacht]

read the suggestion

[errant wren]

that's not entirely the point

[glass arch]

its the question they asked

[indigo yacht]

it's not even

i said "intended to be a weapon"

not "is a weapon"

butchers chainsaw is definitely intended to be a weapon to some degree

and that's also what the suggestion references

tools that have some functionality as weapons

[glass arch]

intention to be a weapon or not is impossible to quantify without some extra functionality (like a tag for items with tool power that determines them as weapons)

[indigo yacht]

correct !

[glass arch]

intention is an impossibility to quantify

[indigo yacht]

thats why i said this

And hardcoded lists suck

[gaunt crystal]

not to be that guy but uh

didn't the extra speed from light get proven to basically do nothing?

at least for most pickaxes?

due to how speed is tied to a rounded number than a non rounded number?

[errant wren]

i think at a certain point it's range that "dictates" speed

not that i really remember

[errant wren]

well uh

yeah i think that

this may have invalidated the sugg further

[errant wren]

hey what if cal reworked legendary on tools to be a range modifier

[mystic sandal]

Cal should buff all tool damage by 1000% honestly

That’ll make legendary more useful on them

[errant wren]

i love copper pickaxe doing like 20 damage or somewhere around that range because i already forgot how much it already does

[grim tusk]

fab tried this

didnt work

Ozz i think changed em but idk if thats ingame

[last shard]

Ngl I use my basic pickaxe as a weapon pretty often in earlygame

Same for axe too, it's just damaging enough to deal with the annoying bats and swings high enough to catch and kick back most slime-type enemies that I don't bother swapping weapons unless there's a considerable threat of numbers or special enemies

I know it's not really too relevant to beyond that point except like early HM, but like idk

[buoyant kernel]

send this individual to the lizard chamber

[keen zodiac]

@tulip axle incorrect formatting (needs to have a title on a separate line)

otherwise bot can't read

[royal tapir]

@tulip axle See changelog 704
Specifically, Ancient furniture is just crafted at the Ashen Altar now

[drowsy plank]

smh beat me to it

[frozen kite]

maybe i’m just itemasylumsuggestionpilled but why is no one using the # thing for their titles

[mystic sandal]

idk if formatting allows it

like if i could do suggs like this

i would

[frozen kite]

i have and i didn’t get yelled at….

didn’t get any ❗ reactions or nothing

[indigo yacht]

another suggestion that can be fixed by turning off smart cursor

[humble scarab]

yea, and just have cursor far from your character

[fleet grotto]

several axes and hammers?

i can only think of like one

[eternal escarp]

the formatting simply requires a title <linebreak> then the sugg
when the bot transmits it to dev i dont think it keeps any of the special texts

[drowsy plank]

fuckin uhhhhhh grax and photon ripper

[eternal escarp]

iirc it just bolds the title automatically and thats it

[drowsy plank]

and axe of purity i guess but that already has a right click

[distant gyro]

to be honest i might be balance anarchist but i think the fact that something destroys shit is part of the fun

i remember when crystal crusher was buffed to be physically really strong in consideration of the fact if you use it your arena is completely crumbling. you'll use it once ever

but it's powerful

[drowsy plank]

the only one that even does this is photon ripper and i think that one should have a right click for no tool bc no reason to fuck builders for no reason, but the rest? just... turn off smart cursor? lmao?

[distant gyro]

and then it was gutted back to tool status 💔

[distant gyro]

i didnt note on this but i thought if you didn't want to destroy stuff you would use a different weapon

the thing being the tool is the premise and if it wasn't the premise why was it able to be a tool in the first place

its photon ripper i expect the trees in the battleground to be ripped to shreds using it

destructive tool used by choice ≈ destruction

it just funnels down to "if you made your tool cool and usable for combat you must allow it to be genericised to just another weapon"

you cant strip off rockfish, you cant strip off butcher's chainsaw, but grax crosses the line or something

[uncut fog]

Mmm i think melee needs more weapons and this suggestions adds at least two, tasty

[mystic sandal]

mods, ❗ his skull

[crude geode]

I think we should remove melee and all it's weapons

now forced to use bombs and dynamite to excavate

[errant wren]

add tools as a class kind of in the same way as thrower back in 1.3

[lucid marsh]

Ew no

[half imp]

We should return classes to how Red intended in 1.0 terraria

(there were no classes)

[indigo yacht]

@green vortex ok i don't think you've been pinged yet for this but your suggestion breaks suggesting rules (and is also improperly formatted but i digress), you should read the suggestions document in the channel description/pins

[keen zodiac]

@unreal marsh rune of kos is exploding in the future

since the bosses are only tangentially related now

[unreal marsh]

oh

[keen zodiac]

cool idea tho

[tardy geyser]

what if... rune of kos summons the yharmy, and the yharmy general drops the yharhorn, which spawn yharon!!!

[crude geode]

I would love more things to do inbetween provi and dog

[whole tundra]

The reasoning behind this does not make sense anyway

The reasoning is around outdated lore and saying that they're skippable as you can skip to another skippable boss right after

And there's plans to move the bosses themselves already

[worn elk]

I don't like the thought of cal fight during the day

[oblique birch]

The just fight it at night instead

[mystic sandal]

Sugg bot looking like that one mummified alien

[worn elk]

knowing that you can still feels wrong to me lol

[fleet grotto]

crusteahorse

[vestal crater]

imma suggest something that idk if its a bug or not but eh

and i also didnt really have any arguments

[mystic sandal]

200 message argument about this sugg incoming

[vestal crater]

real

but umm tell me if something is wrong (with ping)

[keen zodiac]

THIS SUGGESTION FUCKING SUCKS AND I HATE IT
/j

[vestal crater]

😨

[glass arch]

i dont know if this is a fixable issue

[vestal crater]

yeah im woried for the same thing as hovers are wings

[glass arch]

without making magic carpet override wing sprites

[vestal crater]

but if it is fixable

then i might as well suggest it

[royal tapir]

This looks like a vanilla bug

[vestal crater]

yeah i can test it

wait one minute

wait do i even have a world with magic carpet

i dont

someone else test it

[bold crown]

cheat sheet

[vestal crater]

"b-but ill have to disable my mods"

i just didnt thik of it

wait one minute again

it is a vanilla thing

i guess ill just delete the post

[agile goblet]

pirate invasion should drop a rogue accessory
idk what it would do tho

[indigo yacht]

pirate frog leg

[fleet grotto]

please... no... not another rogue accessory...

besides, bandit (famously rogue npc) gets a new item after beating pirates

[errant wren]

you misspelled ranger

[remote maple]

Shut up

[crude geode]

Can’t believe the bot has been dead for over a week

[drowsy plank]

and it probably will be again

sisyphyian task

[severe sparrow]

why does it constantly die

[indigo yacht]

discord sucks

[crude geode]

don't power cells already filter extremely fast through the extractinator

[limpid meadow]

it still takes like 2 minutes for one stack and if i want a lot i just have to sit there filtering through 4 stacks of batteries

and turrets are pretty useful for events til you get to post ml so they're nice to have on hand

[frail fox]

Left out that you can get them from the goat Armored Digger

[limpid meadow]

i forgot about armored digger