I think it's kinda this a little too. You as the player are going out of your way to kill these random powerful guys, to the implied detriment of the world once the evil starts spreading again after WoF. Why would a character knowingly do that if they aren't narratively capable of metagaming like a player is?
#suggestions-discussion
mint oriole
mint oriole
yeah like
drowsy plank
queen bees used to actually work with people
mint oriole
you just fuckin kill this fish ;0;
drowsy plank
yeah
indigo yacht
the terrarian is evil and full of rage
mint oriole
why man that's so outta pocket for you to do unless you have metaknowledge it will proceed the mod's progression
errant wren
the player (you) quite literally just chose violence
plush flame
aquatic scourge will help you fight yharim if you don't fight it
indigo yacht
the terrarian is evil and full of rage
*on revengeance mode
fleet grotto
rev is the canon difficulty its oka
mint oriole
aquatic scourge will help you fight yharim if you don't fight it
that would be fire as it is silly but i doubt that'll happen >u<
drowsy plank
aquatic scourge will help you fight yharim if you don't fight it
the six aquatic scourges
mint oriole
is old duke self defence? acid rains can spawn naturally, and it just kinda seems after you do enough self defence yourself he's like "aight we'll'ave nonna that lad"
novel belfry
I remembered having an argument with a lore writer over this, specifically over lunatic cultist and how weird the whole "You're trying to summon Moon Lord to get stronger" thing felt to me
novel belfry
specifically because it just didnt gel with what i feel would be an easier expectation
indigo yacht
is old duke self defence? acid rains can spawn naturally, and it just kinda seem...
if old duke is British then I don't think it whether or not it's self defense matters anymore
mint oriole
ULTRA FISHING
indigo yacht
you're justified
plush flame
if old duke is British then I don't think it whether or not it's self defense ma...
oi you got a loisence for that holy collider there bruv
errant wren
explode
novel belfry
i'd assume you're fighting the Lunatic Cultist because he's the leader of the Dragon Cult, which sided with Yharim, the guy you want to kill
indigo yacht
what is even the terrarians motivation
novel belfry
And also because the Lunatic Cultist from what little we know of him, seems to be quite the horrible person
indigo yacht
is it literally just kill things lol
plush flame
thats for you to decide
novel belfry
what is even the terrarians motivation
Once again, "IT'S UP TO YOU PUNK"
indigo yacht
i want to help yharim so evidently not
indigo yacht
i wanna kill all of them
errant wren
you don't have to play the mod as intended
plush flame
the only one that you can't kill is silva because she's just kinda like that
indigo yacht
I'll find a way
novel belfry
And also because the Lunatic Cultist from what little we know of him, seems to b...
anyhow
The writer stated that you're supposed to be trying to get stronger so you can deal with stronger threats, and how there's not really any other way other than summon Moon Lord, kill him, and get stronger from his drops and stuff
Which like
mint oriole
thats for you to decide
on one hand, i agree that the terrarian's lore is best kept vauge so you can play any sorta character you'd want to (because i'm a TTRPG girlie i can't get invested if my player character dosen't have lore im normal im normal im norma) but every character regardless of backstory woul dneed some sorta reason to do this all in the first place.
indigo yacht
yharim killed my pet bunny
mint oriole
like what's the narrative reason your player's not noping the fuck out back to where they were before this
novel belfry
okay, first off talk about breaking the whole "Terrarian is up to you" thing in some way
indigo yacht
so now im going to annihilate his entire crusade
plush flame
the crusade's over
novel belfry
but putting that aside
mint oriole
yea like the crusade's done why are you here
plush flame
yharim has given up
novel belfry
Oh yeah
plush flame
it really finally ended once he ran to the aerie like a little bitch
mint oriole
yahrim's just sitting in his wherever he is taking his venlafaxine as needed for the rest of eternity he's not doing shit
errant wren
yharim is keeping the ultimate building accessory for himself idk
indigo yacht
so THATS why the suggestions kept getting denied
indigo yacht
i want to help yharim so evidently not
i suppose i only really want to help my headcanon version of the character where he's still very evil but isn't so fucking shallow and boring
errant wren
the player just wants to build freely but yharim said nah
glass arch
@inland saddle bots dead
errant wren
cue violence
mint oriole
the player just wants to build freely but yharim said nah
this is sorta where i tend to go with calamity chars i make. I'm here because some sort of goal regaurding being on this land keeps me here, and the calamity stuff is a series of events that snowball out of control until you're in too deep and need to kill yahrim. supposibly cus he's the one just fucking with your head to tell you how sad he is all the time.
maybe sometime after Permafrost you start growing closer to those affected by the crusades's aftermath, and want to bring yahrim to justice.
like let's face it the godcorpse that is crimsom/curruption probubly killed a fair ammount of people who used to be around there
plush flame
kill yharim because he wont shut the fuck up about how hes totally the good guy or whatever it just became white noise 40 hours ago
novel belfry
yea like the crusade's done why are you here
YKnow how Kissinger pissed off a lot of people not just for the heinous shit he did, but also for the fact that he lived the rest of his life free from consequence?
You're here to give Yharim the karma he deserves.
mint oriole
YKnow how Kissinger pissed off a lot of people not just for the heinous shit he ...
YAHRIM KISSINGER SO REAL
plush flame
if only braelor and statis actually finished the job
mint oriole
oh im so hype to learn more about those two >u<
i love their designs and I wanna know more about Silva. Braelor seems like a good way to learn more about what her followers thought of her
indigo yacht
do we get to kill braelor
glass arch
nasty cholla exists so probably, yeah
mint oriole
I kinda do hope he'd come to the town like calamitas and permafrost would after you win.
idk what mechanical purpose the NPC would serve but it'd be cool to have more lore figures chillin with you :D
novel belfry
I don't like the implication behind that
isnt he like
a plant guy
basically a plant paladin
i think it'd just stick to him, no damage or anything
and even if there is
itd probably immediately regen or somthing
keen zodiac
a plant guy
no he's a human
uncut fog
Fast work here
dense frost
basically a plant paladin
Plantadin
teal yarrow
lowkey they should add the tf2 engineer sentries to the game
maybe mimi sentry pet would be cool
idk
indigo yacht
no
teal yarrow
https://calamitymod.wiki.gg/wiki/Turrets
i meant as a summoner special sentry with different modes but i guess that works too
teal yarrow
ehhhhh
immediately thought of that after posting the msg
alright
drowsy plank
it's so funny how many things calamity gets wrong, because i think calamity sentries are one of the few spots where i think they're just a direct improvement from vanilla
teal yarrow
very true
drowsy plank
as broken as most of them are, better they be broken than unusable
which is not something i can say for a lot of vanilla weapons
crude geode
Vanilla early hm and prehm ore weapons be like
teal yarrow
not enough in phm imo
you kinda have to beat wof with rusty beacon
drowsy plank
are you just talking about sentries
teal yarrow
yees
drowsy plank
because beating wof with just rusty beacon is very possible
drowsy plank
remember sentries are mostly supposed to be supplementary damage
teal yarrow
i guess summoner in general doesnt really need more buffs
drowsy plank
mhm
teal yarrow
only REAL complaint i have is abt whips but i understand the problem about tag damage and other minion buffs becoming a problem
besides catalyst is already a thing so i guess thats also invalid
drowsy plank
whips next update
teal yarrow
wait fr
drowsy plank
or at least whenever summoner rebalance is done if not
im pretty sure some are already in the game check the cal future content doc
drowsy plank
glass arch
~~cal whips don't exist~~
cnidarian
mystic sandal
MOOOOM! SUGGESTIONS BOT IS BROKEN AGAIN!
glass arch
i dont think they've had time to fix it
drowsy plank
i dont think they've had time to fix it
if we did ping them before about this then uh
oops
glass arch
if we did ping them before about this then uh
two other times, actually
glass arch
once 3 days ago, once yesterday, and once today
glass arch
imma be real i only remember because i pinged them yesterday and wanted to see if they had said anything since the last ping and if anyone had actually pinged them right away when the bot went down
inland saddle
!t
Okay it just doesn’t work here that’s fine
It’s back
I’m getting an error I’ve never seen before
I’ll investigate tonight but it should be fine for now
drowsy plank
'ppreciate it
indigo yacht
trapper bulbs are getting removed
silver mulch
Even better, honestly
cold cosmos
Here at calamity we love item bloat
keen zodiac
bone serpent spawnrates are worse than sharks somehow
obsidian nova
It's easier to just make your own addon 
whole tundra
The drop rate is fine enough
It's just that Bone Serpent spawnrate needs to be improved
keen zodiac
it would be neat if they spawned more often in the ash forest but idk how possible coding that is
keen zodiac
maybe like, if it's in the outer fifths of the world and not in the crags
indigo yacht
config hell
worn blaze
Ig, that's why I said only if enough people like them, I don't think anyone would care or miss these particle effects anyways
idle dagger
I feel like I heard the drop rate was being improved next update already
For the old lord claymore
indigo yacht
Ig, that's why I said only if enough people like them, I don't think anyone woul...
there are vastly better ways to disable particle effects than to add a config option
such as just making them affected by visibility lmao
assuming they aren't already
keen zodiac
you can't toggle visibility on armor
plush flame
i think they mean hidden by vanity items
worn blaze
The problem with that is:
1 you can't disable visibility of armor
2 if you disable visibility of the winged boots, the wings disappear until you jump which I think looks janky
Vanity items don't work
plush flame
you can wear vanity wings
crude geode
Config bloat is a real thing and using a slot to disable one (1) particle effect is extremely not worth the space
plush flame
^
worn blaze
Yes but what if I want to use the seraph tracers wings in a vanity set?
glass arch
...then you can just do that
plush flame
then you use solar wings
worn blaze
Ok that I can agree with, I will simplify my suggestion to reflect that.
glass arch
config bloat is hell and cal suffers from it already (even if all the configs actually make sense to be there)
humble scarab
its better to find different solution rather than just adding config option to everything
half imp
I do think auric armor particles should only draw if the full set is auric visually
and tracers particles are fine, as long as they are disabled properly when using other wings visually
distant gyro
i think tracers dust died
actually its just elysian wings dust thats put on top of tracers dust intrusively on everything
keen zodiac
lmao
worn blaze
I think I'll change my suggestion to simply be to fix auric tesla armors visual effects being visible through vanity items
Rather than trying to do 2 suggestions at once
half imp
I think that makes sense
indigo yacht
this suggestion is fine
oblique birch
For the old lord claymore
ye both Oathsword and Claymore will have very low chance to drop at the start but will be significantly boosted after Evil 1
for Claymore part don't know how much that will compensate for the rare spawn of Bone Serpent, I guess we'll see
and I also think that the Ashen Chest will no longer have the guaranteed Oathsword anymore
half imp
ye
indigo yacht
no fuck you
(joking of course but this is against suggestion rules)
@frozen kite read the suggestions document in pins/channel description
frozen kite
deleting ts then….
don’t see how i can fix it as i could have sworn that i followed the rules
indigo yacht
no suggestions about more accessory slots i fear
furthermore the devs wouldn't accept the suggestion if it made it to voting anyways, the purpose of legendary mode is to be stupid
adding an extra accessory slot to compensate sorta defeats the point
legendary mode already doesn't do much
basically just the ai changes and increased contact damage (and a few enemy specific things)
plush flame
the most aggressive dog made
you'd think he's seeing a toddler the way he's trying to maul you
frozen kite
furthermore the devs wouldn't accept the suggestion if it made it to voting anyw...
true….
indigo yacht
other mechanics like defense effectiveness are unaffected by legendary but are affected by master so that's another thing that doesn't carry over
plush flame
new malice dog goes absurd from what ive heard
indigo yacht
I don't see the relevance
plush flame
example of an ai change
frozen kite
also deadass how did i skip over this while reading…
indigo yacht
at least you read the rest of the document most people just don't 
plush flame
this is true
frozen kite
should still give people the onion in legendary solely to give a false hope 
….
indigo yacht
that would be kind of funny icl
plush flame
that would be funny
frozen kite
do i remaster the suggestion into ts or nah……
plush flame
nah
frozen kite
would that break the last rule…
indigo yacht
that would qualify as a joke suggestion yes
plush flame
pretty sure it would
indigo yacht
that would qualify as a joke suggestion yes
gfb suggestions almost always do
plush flame
tbf its ftw and not gfb
frozen kite
my suggestion is that if you activate death mode in get fixed boi it crashes your game and bricks your computer 🔥🔥🔥✍️✍️✍️
frozen kite
tbf its ftw and not gfb
feel like saying i was referring to ftw when making the suggestion…
indigo yacht
that would qualify as a joke suggestion yes
ftw suggestions also almost always do
most secret seed suggestions do
frozen kite
do also wanna mention the suggestion also cope from me doing ftw for my first playthrough….
gilded citrus
new malice dog goes absurd from what ive heard
Malice is back??
gilded citrus
A ok
frail mantle
demon spider mode
vestal crater
Can’t wait to be traumatized by crabulon again
severe sparrow
what did crabulon do in malice mode
vestal crater
what did crabulon do in malice mode
It was my second playthrough of cal
severe sparrow
oh
frozen kite
malice is i think legendary + rev
does this mean malice exclusive items are gonna be back…
crude geode
No
frail mantle
no
vestal crater
They already exist they’re just rare
olive saddle
at least you read the rest of the document most people just don't <:clueless:106...
to be fair if you dont feel like reading the suggestion list you can do a very brief view of voting and posting and gain a general grasp of the rules. i dont think ive had a sugg flagged more than once or twice (both were joke suggestions) and i didnt read the doc until... my 4th or so sugg?
humble scarab
to be fair if you dont feel like reading the suggestion list you can do a very b...
or just if you have a suggestion ready just check if it clash with what on blue
near fulcrum
wrong channel*
coral carbon
@indigo yacht evil sky island is being removed
indigo yacht
in sso?
coral carbon
not sure actually
indigo yacht
if it's not getting removed in sso then i see no reason to change my suggestion
indigo yacht
i will wait for confirmation
being informed that there will be a change at some undetermined point in the future is a pet peeve of mine
coral carbon
its gonna happen soon™
tepid crown
golden sonnet
Evil Island is going to die at some point yeah
That being said I see no reason to limit it to not be in space in general
If other evil enemies can spawn up there I see no reason cysts can't
half imp
yeah this is fine
frail mantle
@onyx vigil no
onyx vigil
mystic sandal
🎉 THE BOT IS FUCKING DEAD 🎉
gleaming herald
#suggestions-voting message its been 85 years
indigo yacht
a month minus a week
misty lichen
its been a year daddy
glass arch
@inland saddle the bot is dead again
half imp
about this suggestion - starboard really does not fall behind other wings, it's just a different niche
it's a high skill ceiling wing
gritty plaza
does it not? starboard has a flight time of "3 seconds", and wings of rebirth are 360; assuming that's ticks that's 6 seconds
so that's literally twice the wing time
keen zodiac
the 360 is frames iirc
thorn dock
I feel starboard is barely useable, I m missing the movement speed and the flight time appears to be quite short
golden sonnet
it has hover and boost
thorn dock
I just feel it cant compete well with seraph tracers/ wings of rebirth
Feels like a tier behind
idle dagger
Isn’t starboard post ml while wings of rebirth are post yharon
indigo yacht
check mark
comparing the two is utter folly
of course pixie wings are worse than fishron wings in terms of flight time
thorn dock
Comparing them is perfect
Comparing the best non hover wings with the best hover wings
And it exposes the fact that there is a big gap between them, hover just ends with ML
indigo yacht
that's a fine argument to make but trying to say they're worse than wings of rebirth is a bit silly because like... yeah of course they are if they were on par that'd be somewhat questionable game design
they're multiple tiers of progression and about 10 bosses apart
thorn dock
Doesnt make any sense calling it silly
indigo yacht
how so
thorn dock
they're multiple tiers of progression and about 10 bosses apart
You just mentioned the questionable part
I didnt say starboard beeing too bad for its tier, I said hover cant compete in the endgame
Which effectively disqualifies hover from endgame
gritty plaza
about this suggestion - starboard really does not fall behind other wings, it's ...
i was contesting this point, that starboard doesn't fall behind
like it objectively does at some point and hover would be nice to have when it does
half imp
it falls behind solely in flight time
and diagonal speed
verticality it is better at, same with accel and pure horizontal
it's arguably the best wing for scal due to its insane accel and decel making precision dodging way easier
saying it falls behind because the flight time is lower is misleading
Hadarian Wings and Empress wings, for example, all have low flight time on tier. They also are both very good due to their stats they provide
Hadarian being the fastest possible pre ML wings, and Empress being one of the best wings for vertical movement in the game alongside second-best other movement stats
half imp
I feel starboard is barely useable, I m missing the movement speed and the fligh...
As for movement speed, Starboard ties wings of Rebirth for horizontal max speed when hovering although it is much less when not hovering
(it ties Fishron/Empress when not hovering)
The suggestion is fine and has no problems, but starboard is not at all objectively outclassed. It's simply a different use case of wings; it's a higher skill but higher reward wing for most builds
thorn dock
On the other hand, flight time could be weightend higher, beeing a critical factor?
Also the loss of movement speed from rejecting tracers
indigo yacht
flight time is not important for scal
thorn dock
But in general, all around
indigo yacht
how much flight time do you really need
doesn't starboard have a pretty good amount already even if it's quite a bit less than whatever else it's being compared to
drowsy plank
yes
half imp
On the other hand, flight time could be weightend higher, beeing a critical fact...
flight time is not that critical
There's plenty of ways to refresh it easily
most notably hooks
Low flight time wings are higher skill required but it's not a game changing thing
nimble warren
Hey, I have a question: why, when I apply the Calamity texture, do the texture backgrounds appear behind the game's original backgrounds? How could I fix this?
errant wren
so uh
not the right channel for this question
but
are you referring to a resource pack?
nimble warren
Exactly, yes, I’m referring to the texture pack. I apologize for asking this here.
errant wren
oh then go to the resource pack list thing and make sure the calamity one is at the top
i could also be wrong though
nimble warren
Thanks for replying. I just tried it, and for some reason, the original Terraria backgrounds are still on top of the Calamity ones. I tried checking the settings, but nothing. I’m not sure if the texture can be configured or something like that. I’ve also seen several other people having the same issue.
grim tusk
hover, popular?
half imp
enough yes
hover isn't something everyone uses but a good enough portion of people use both hovers and boosts
errant wren
can we get flappy bird flight in endgame
oblique birch
@dusty atlas Redtide Spear is dying
dusty atlas
<@947555238620037130> Redtide Spear is dying
wdym
tepid crown
its getting removed next update
oblique birch
crude geode
What will we do without melee weapon #590
novel belfry
you couldve just turned it into a lance
or better yet
a classless weapon with utility or something
half imp
no
novel belfry
throws a great jar filled with positrons at you
misty lichen
not everything needs to be saved
crude geode
^^^
Melee is the class with the most weapons it does not need more shit
and I’d rather have more unique weapons that classless ones
half imp
you say that like classless ones can't be unique
crude geode
True
half imp
I have made 2 classless weapons in SSO and both are unique
drowsy plank
when are we getting classful weapons
errant wren
a weapon that changes its class every few seconds sounds funny
keen zodiac
for now...
crude geode
It’s been back for 3 minutes and you’re already praying for it’s downfall smh my head
errant wren
sugg bot gotta be one of the top 10 genders
mystic sandal
#suggestions-voting message the fact that this has 95 stars
Something something cal players don’t want to play the game
keen zodiac
we're doomed
indigo yacht
calamity community has always sucked are we really surprised
tepid crown
https://discord.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/1403366721988...
it was insta locked too so theres no reason to star it
😭
errant wren
i feel like... nah i don't think it'd work
i was gonna say that a lock should remove the votes to prevent people from reacting but that's probably super dumb
crude geode
It doesn’t really matter
indigo yacht
more than likely the people voting don't know what lock means
plush flame
what if he did sell boozes but they were abhorrently expensive
glass arch
what if he did sell boozes but they were abhorrently expensive
how expensive is abhorrently because cal economy is broken
errant wren
small price to pay, unfortunately
make it like
a full inventory's worth of platinum coins
plush flame
prices cant go above 2147 platinum
errant wren
guh
plush flame
due to it being the 32 bit integer limit
errant wren
make that the price for the bottle itself
plush flame
prices are stored in copper
plush flame
bottle pieces 1-40
tired haven
At that point its probably easier to make a crafting recipe out of a mountain of coins
amber jay
Guys please go vote for this
north oracle
please don't advertise suggestions even ones that aren't your own
the point is to let them gain the attention they would organically, not to have people push the ones they like
@amber jay
amber jay
Alright
north oracle
that one in specific toes the line between being a bug and a suggestion, there's probably a chance a dev just goes in and fixes it
tiny minnow
I get nervous when suggesting stuff, because it might break a rule or be too vague or specific.
It’s why I’ve ever only made 2 suggestions.
obsidian nova
or just if you have a suggestion ready just check if it clash with what on blue
You know, speaking of, I'm pretty sure suggesting a weapon to be added into an existing weapon line counts as SIS, right?
plush flame
this most recent one feels like it'd be catastrophic for balance
wait
a full accessory just to hover
i can only see it as being either be absurdly overpowered or a dead slot, with the vast majority of people ignoring it
humble scarab
True
humble scarab
I get nervous when suggesting stuff, because it might break a rule or be too vag...
Thats why in the document there are examples under every rule which helps
But also you can tell your suggestion here
half imp
I get nervous when suggesting stuff, because it might break a rule or be too vag...
worst case you just get asked to edit it unless it's just completely irreconcilable with the rules
and yeah you can share your suggestions here first
grave zincBOT
@urban berry - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Make the Unsafe Draedon Lab Turret obtainable]
It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message
@vestal crater - Your suggestion has received an updated status!
[Add profaned torches]
It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message
vestal crater
Oh
Cool
Why did it get rejected like 3 years ago
Dev said it was cuz “calamity isn’t building focused”
mystic sandal
Dev said it was cuz “calamity isn’t building focused”
inb4 fabsol
odd geyser
stinksol
keen zodiac
true
tiny minnow
Thats why in the document there are examples under every rule which helps
That’s what I did last time with my “add a reason for Death Mode besides added difficulty” suggestion a little while ago.
uncut fog
Fast work as always
urban berry
WAIT WHAT
WAIT MY SUGGESTION COULD ACTUALLY BE CONSIDERED????
I just made it because I wanted to make a box that nearly instantly kills you on entering similar to Auric Ore
indigo yacht
WAIT MY SUGGESTION COULD ACTUALLY BE CONSIDERED????
well that's the purpose of making suggestions
indigo yacht
"trying to accomplish the same thing" no?
mystic sandal
Both are armor sets that are focused around speeding up your mining in exchange for not having the bonuses you get from typical armor sets
indigo yacht
i wouldn't classify permanent spelunker and potential for duplicating ores as the same thing
I don't really see how mining armor would be better than reaver headgear unless you played with enemy spawns disabled
a little bit of extra ore is meh, being able to not die in one hit is quite convenient
uncut fog
Zen potion moment
mystic sandal
I mean personally if I’m going mining I feel like I’m bringing spelunker potions anyways?
glass arch
mining armor is arguably better like this because like. you want ore dupe? sure just use a pre hardmode armor set
urban berry
Onion has a fair point
Zen potions exist.
indigo yacht
i prefer mining armor having a purpose
glass arch
which is bad
urban berry
Idea instead of just remove from 1 give to another
Copy and give to Reaver
glass arch
as much as i love zen and zergs they are a scourge on balancing armor sets longevity
uncut fog
And also you cant mine as fast pre hm meaning each ore group you find is more valuable making the duping equally more valuable whereas by early hardmode you mine fast enough to find enough ore to counteract the dupe imo at least
indigo yacht
i cannot think of any scenario where I'd rather have a chance to duplicate ore over all the conveniences of reaver headgear
what ore is rare enough for that to be actually helpful
mystic sandal
as much as i love zen and zergs they are a scourge on balancing armor sets longe...
I mean sure, it’s not great that there’s a potion that disables enemy spawns, but they’re in the game as is
glass arch
i simply dupe in other ways (infinite stack at 999 from nycros my beloved)
indigo yacht
i cannot think of any scenario where I'd rather have a chance to duplicate ore o...
if you want to argue the bonus should be added to reaver headgear, then sure, but don't try and claim that mining armor is somehow better because it fills a small niche and is lacking in all other regards
i cannot see this suggestion getting any stars ngl
glass arch
i do not care
errant wren
obviously we make reaver gear crafted with miner gear and make the bonus carry over (i'll see myself out)
glass arch
if we only make suggestions likely to get stars for the sole purpose of getting them to dev a lot of suggestions will just never exist
mystic sandal
obviously we make reaver gear crafted with miner gear and make the bonus carry o...
I mean lowkey
That would work
But it would break from consistency
Since, yk there’s two other helms
Which don’t have that restriction
errant wren
i have never used reaver gear
glass arch
if my sugg gets exclam'd so be it but i dont Require a sugg to get to dev
bold crown
Zerg and Zen are pretty valuable for farming, especially considering alot of enemy drops already have very low drop chances. Also, I don't know any other armour sets that would even get downsides from not having Zen. Marnite maybe
indigo yacht
tarragon
auric, by extension
or no what you said makes no sense
tarragon reduces spawn rates which means it does nothing when zen is active
glass arch
if my sugg gets exclam'd so be it but i dont Require a sugg to get to dev
plus even if it doesnt get stars it still lowers the threshold for other suggs
uncut fog
Also zerg can actively be dangerous so it only lets you cheese way past where items are super valuable
glass arch
imma be real it is not
indigo yacht
plus even if it doesnt get stars it still lowers the threshold for other suggs
i should make 30 alt accounts to all post the worst technically valid suggestions known to humankind an hour before every time i go to post my own suggestions
indigo yacht
Also zerg can actively be dangerous so it only lets you cheese way past where it...
not with a competent terrain setup/weapon
uncut fog
Yeah but early hardmode zerg has killed me a significant chunk of times
glass arch
honestly skill issue
indigo yacht
the problem with zerg and zen potions is the same as the problem with mods like alchemist npc
gaunt crystal
honestly though, I can see the argument for zerg potions making some rare stuff less rare but
there's also them being used to speed up resource farms
indigo yacht
the problem with zerg and zen potions is the same as the problem with mods like ...
you skip all the effort in a system and all the addendums to make that system more convenient or interesting and go right to the end
glass arch
you need 10 blocks and suddenly in 99% of cases you are now immune to enemies
gaunt crystal
you skip all the effort in a system and all the addendums to make that system mo...
I just have it for the combination potions
glass arch
why do you need combo potions you have 44 buff slots
gaunt crystal
why do you need combo potions you have 44 buff slots
inventory space
glass arch
potionsafe
indigo yacht
you skip all the effort in a system and all the addendums to make that system mo...
there's no reason to add anything that decreases or increases spawnrates while zerg and zen potions exist bc they will always be far more effective and efficient
gaunt crystal
potionsafe
inventory space
no matter what without them there's a lot of inventory space being wasted
indigo yacht
there's no reason to add anything that decreases or increases spawnrates while z...
they're buffs so almost entirely lack opportunity cost, are pretty cheap (even when you can obtain them slime gods aren't exactly a difficult fight), and are active so long as you keep drinking them; you don't need to stay within a certain range of them like water candles or sacrifice armor or accessories
that said i like them existing bc they're convenient and make grinding less of a hassle
uncut fog
Ima be real i hate farming for items half the time bc i do not enjoy waiting for a specific enemy to spawn and then not get the item i want, i just dont like to play that part of the game
gaunt crystal
I mainly hate farming for souls and DoG essences
indigo yacht
you do not need to farm for souls
gaunt crystal
I mainly hate farming for souls and DoG essences
like it's stuff I've already done before
indigo yacht
demon altars drop souls of night (4 each) and queen slime drops like 15
gaunt crystal
you do not need to farm for souls
I had to spend
glass arch
souls have like 5 alternate obtainment methods outside of random enemy spawns
gaunt crystal
104 keys of light to get a daedelus bow
indigo yacht
spam kill queen slime
gaunt crystal
I didn't know she dropped them at that time
indigo yacht
demon altars drop souls of night (4 each) and queen slime drops like 15
15-20
gaunt crystal
I also skipped queen slime that playthrough
glass arch
104 keys of light to get a daedelus bow
imma be real this is SUCH a major outlier generally you get them in like 3-4
indigo yacht
it's not like you can't still just enable death mode, start a blood moon, drink a battle potion, and place down a water candle for rates comparable to zerg potions
indigo yacht
or use that one alcohol that'll exist in 2.1 that increases spawn rates by like 7x but nerfs your piercing damage
gaunt crystal
but it goes to show that I have had to farm souls before
plush flame
104 keys of light to get a daedelus bow
jesus fucking christ
yeah no thats just shit luck
gaunt crystal
still not as bad as that farm for a chain gun a few years ago
114 frost moons post golem
to get a singular chain gun
plush flame
and by shit luck i mean ~1.014%^(10*-11)
also were you getting to wave 20 consistently
gaunt crystal
no
gaunt crystal
it has been a WHILE
indigo yacht
keeping zerg and zen potions in the game shouldn't be contingent on scenarios so unfathomably unlikely that you'd sooner win the lottery 4 times in a row than recreate them
i didnt calculate the odds of this do not fact check me or i will explode you
plush flame
just using powerball as an example, which is 0.000000342% or 3.42e-9
2 powerball jackpots in a row is a lot less likely
but whiffing a 1/4 a hundred and four times in a row is less likely than winning the powerball jackpot
glass arch
byeah 104 biome mimics for daedalus (assuming you killed all of them) is i believe something like 1.01e-18
plush flame
13
glass arch
aka 0.0000000000000000001%
gaunt crystal
y'know
half imp
based remove zerg and zen suggestion
gaunt crystal
I wish I just got a lottery ticket instead of farming for that thing
plush flame
glass arch
the -13 comes after the 2
gaunt crystal
based remove zerg and zen suggestion
plush flame
chance of not getting it to the power of attempt count
half imp
zerg and zen are problems
gaunt crystal
I reiterate
buoyant kernel
maybe nerf them but removing them would make me want to swallow knives when farming rare or uncommon items like shark fins
gaunt crystal
indigo yacht
2 powerball jackpots in a row is a lot less likely
I Warned You.
plush flame
maybe if they were like way toned down to be slightly stronger battle and calming instead of yes enemies or no enemies
half imp
there's an idea for a zerg rework floating around
plush flame
or maybe just like
half imp
We'll see if anything happens
plush flame
fuck hardcore runners true
half imp
make them persistent over death too
indigo yacht
make zerg potion the same except it transforms every new enemy that spawns into the devourer of gods
indigo yacht
make them persistent over death too
and infinite duration
buoyant kernel
the downside is that if you try it on enemies youre too weak to face you get turned into meat paste
plush flame
make zerg potion the same except it transforms every new enemy that spawns into ...
Puppy Potion
Spawns Dogs
glass arch
assuming you killed all of the mimics... thats a one in ten million one hundred forty-seven thousand seven hundred eighty-eight hundred-quintillion chance
half imp
the downside is that if you try it on enemies youre too weak to face you get tur...
not a real enough downside
because it doesn't actually make it harder to beat the hordes of enemies and you can cancel it anytime
gaunt crystal
assuming you killed all of the mimics... thats a one in ten million one hundred ...
18 of them killed me
half imp
Bloody Mary is like zerg but stronger but evil
being an alcohol it's a debuff, and it nukes piercing damage
So if you wanna use it to farm you're committing to it and better be prepared
crude geode
Yeah Zerg is kind of a potion with no downside but also the thing it’s addressing is farming normal enemies which most people hate
half imp
yeah but it doesn't just help with it
indigo yacht
not directly related but nurse should be able to clear alcohol debuffs even if it just costs more bc it's kind of fucking annoying to have to kill myself every time i want to stop having purple haze or moonshine or whatever bc they're kind of annoying outside of boss fights
half imp
It basically removes it
plush flame
not directly related but nurse should be able to clear alcohol debuffs even if i...
easy solution
half imp
not directly related but nurse should be able to clear alcohol debuffs even if i...
can she remove ale in vanilla
plush flame
add a killbind button
half imp
Technically yes I could but no
indigo yacht
this mod sucks
indigo yacht
can you add funny ragdolls to calamity
ok ngl i really want to add this now
when you die, instead of breaking apart you just go fucking flying
crude geode
can she remove ale in vanilla
Yes
indigo yacht
not directly related but nurse should be able to clear alcohol debuffs even if i...
you can add exceptions for like bloody mary or whatever
and everclear bc i hate everclear and nobody should use it 🙏
is everclear getting changed in sso
keen zodiac
is everclear getting changed in sso
every alcohol is
glass arch
18 of them killed me
brings it down to 1.799984e-11 or one in one million seven hundred ninety nine thousand nine hundred eighty four hundred quadrillion
crude geode
Every time someone mentions a change in SSO I keep imagining a version of the Scott cawthon “your theories are all wrong goodbye” gif but with lilac saying “everything in calamity is changing goodbye”
buoyant kernel
calling it a sunken sea overhaul sounds like an understatement
im finishing my first run in a couple years and im still reeling from the changes since updating to journeys end
glass arch
in short your luck is just astronomically bad ngl
hollow shell
Very based suggestion thank you
I'd have to think about it more to know if I even want it to happen but I appreciate uhh
paradigm shifts
And the de-trivialization of game mechanics
gritty plaza
Killing zerg is fine but zen is fine i think
misty lichen
zen honestly i think is worse
gritty plaza
nothing wrong with wanting a chill mining session imo
crude geode
Zen trivializes the difficulty of any area area hardmode and later
indigo yacht
calming potions exist already anyways
old suggestion
looks like it just barely didn't pass the first time i posted it
hopefully it will this time
i think it should be treated like early hardmode progression rework (default calamity setting, BUT can be disabled if desired for some reason)
next swift
i cant see the issue with having zerg/zen in the game-
indigo yacht
they're buffs so almost entirely lack opportunity cost, are pretty cheap (even w...
this more or less @next swift
they come off more as like... endgame buffs, tbh, not things you can easily get an hour or so after starting a world
next swift
and from my experience (granted i dont do any elaborate farms or whatnot) zerg can actively get you killed when you're not being careful with its use
if you go out of your way to make a farm that benefits from zerg i dont think thats cause for removal
not everyone wants to deal with that kinda rng o_O
glass arch
"out of your way" like its not something you just slap on and forget about
indigo yacht
and from my experience (granted i dont do any elaborate farms or whatnot) zerg c...
these also apply tonother spawn rate booster
zerg is different because it, well, the stuff above
plus it has zero commitment required, you can just right click the buff away if it's getting too hectic for your liking
glass arch
zergs are actually just piercing weapon check
next swift
okay real quick, since i dont know what calamity prioritize specifically in its balance:
is hardmode rework (turnt off) considered?
glass arch
zen potions are actively worse than zerg because they essentially just shut off any and all enemy spawns
indigo yacht
it's mostly an option for cross modding i think
glass arch
crossmod and iirc also because of how much of a gameplay change it is
byeah they are a scourge on balancing enemies and drop rates
indigo yacht
i do find it funny that despite how much shade im throwing at zerg and zen i still want them to be in the game
next swift
eh, i still dont think they should be removed with that in mind, id rather have em to help get the spawns/items i want then to not have em at all
could make the craft for them harder or do literally anything else, but removing them entirely isnt something i agree with
indigo yacht
they suck but they're very convenient
buoyant kernel
i think you should need to stack multiple buffs to achieve the current effects of the zen potion
cuz then if i wanna build a cool house or go fishing or build an arena, i can set up a peace candle and such and not get harassed while not allowing the zen potion to trivialize everything
indigo yacht
calming potions exist
there are also some armor sets that reduce enemy spawns
not many though
why not
make luck potions
more accessible
i mean clams sorta already do that but that's still fucking annoying and i honestly know nothing about farming them
indigo yacht
more accessible
i think you can use blood orbs for them but like ew
glass arch
i do find it funny that despite how much shade im throwing at zerg and zen i sti...
if theyre in game ill use them but i wont be happy about them being in game
next swift
if theyre in game ill use them but i wont be happy about them being in game
i mean- if its actively that big of an issue why dontcha just-
dont touch them...?
its not like its a forced thing to get
glass arch
i use them not because i like them but because they're extremely overpowered
i know that, despite me using them, theyre still really bad for overall game health
keen zodiac
lotta suggestions today damn
indigo yacht
*dont* touch them...?
you can make that argument for things that are bad design in any pve game
it doesnt work out typically
keen zodiac
oh god are we having this discussion again
next swift
it would be different if zerg and zen were forced things you had to get
you can just opt to use battle / water candles and get a slight bump in spawns without going overboard
indigo yacht
it would be different if zerg and zen were forced things you had to get
no it wouldn't
do you agree that overpowered weapons idealistically shouldnt exist
glass arch
them being forced or not doesnt change how impactful they are on game health
next swift
i would rather them just be harder to get then being removed
at most i agree they are way too free to get
kill slime god and tada!
glass arch
them being forced or not doesnt change how impactful they are on game health
they are exactly an on or off button for enemy spawns
plush flame
i would rather them just be harder to get then being removed
500 platinum each
glass arch
do you want all the spawns or none of them
next swift
500 platinum each
bro is trying to make sure i never see the item ever
LOL
“pay your life savings for zerg potion”
glass arch
yes that is the ideal situation for them
plush flame
also not sold by alchnp\c
glass arch
yes that is the ideal situation for them
like unironically almost never seeing them is the ideal situation if they arent removed
next swift
hmmmmm
indigo yacht
make them 10% drop chance from slime god 🙏
glass arch
yeah
plush flame
make slime god drop 14 but only once per character and world
glass arch
you grind now so you dont have to grind later
next swift
make slime god drop 14 but only once per character and world
i was about to say why not just go the purified jam route
wasnt those once per world?
plush flame
what was even the point of purified jam
indigo yacht
because purified jam sucked and nobody would use it
next swift
because purified jam sucked and nobody would use it
True Melee:
indigo yacht
if you only ever had 14 zerg potions
glass arch
what was even the point of purified jam
iframe potion
plush flame
was there like a purified jam hotkey
indigo yacht
or would you "what if i need them later"
glass arch
was there like a purified jam hotkey
it was just healing potion iirc
indigo yacht
"i cant afford to waste them"
next swift
would you ever use them
Yes
indigo yacht
i do not believe you
next swift
i already know when id wanna use em
next swift
unless it was for boss cheese
noooooope
my uses for them have strictly been to not deal with waiting too long on grinding
i aint a fan of doin allat so
zerg is my bestie
…until it burns my frames away
then we’re not besties
indigo yacht
are we still talking about purified jam or are we talking about zerg potions
i confused myself
next swift
ya had said zerg so
next swift
if you only ever had 14 zerg potions
^
indigo yacht
oh well i mentioned the jam immediately before that
next swift
lmao
mystic sandal
what was even the point of purified jam
Me when I become invincible because I’m bored
white crest
helloooo C:
glass arch
why waste a message on that
theres a 10 minute slowmode why waste those saying you dont know how to do bold
keen zodiac
@white crest all bio center labs are being renovated in sso just so you know
so they'll look nicer
mystic sandal
mods, ❗ his skull
oblique birch
500 ❗
north oracle
the SIS is real
keen zodiac
how is it not getting 🗜️ed it must be like 1 character under the limit
north oracle
but uh yea @white crest no suggesting anything that specific, whether it's bosses, items, etc.
Basically everything past the 1st paragraph is beyond the scope of what a suggestion should bring up
and as was pointed out above, that first part is already being done
indigo yacht
"why is this suggestion exclaimed? adding detail yo draedon labs is- oh."
fleet grotto
Overly specific suggestion that isn't within the scope of the developers
crude geode
basically the more specific a suggestion is, the less room it gives devs to modify and change as needed, and as such is a detriment to a suggestion
and yeah that
if you wanna make a super cool weapon or concept, it's best to just do it on your own
fleet grotto
too far
you need to say what about him needs to be reworked, and potentially why he's an issue in his current state while not suggesting ways to do it specifically
indigo yacht
the most important thing about a suggestion is that it is intended to solve a problem
fleet grotto
yes
indigo yacht
it isn't just something that would be cool (although it can be both!)
white crest
well
glass arch
you just cant use it would be cool as part of the reasoning
white crest
i mean the draedon labs should be better- its a problem to meh-
crude geode
the overarching problem is that this is already being handled next update
indigo yacht
heres a suggestion i made that i think is cool and is also draedon related
#suggestions-voting message
fleet grotto
yeah that's also a big
white crest
i never saw anything talking about it?
fleet grotto
if you search for something relating to the topic in #changelogs or #suggestions-voting then you should probably avoid it
but if it's not in either of those it's not really your fault
white crest
ohhh
thanks-
also john, i had no idea that 10 minute thing was there, AND i accidentally clicked enter
glass arch
oh thats fair
white crest
hey can i ask smth, the gods in this game are formed by dragons right?
glass arch
#lore-discussion but sorta yes
worn elk
there are a few configs for vanilla mechanics aren't there?
I assumed they were for people who don't want calamity to change vanilla things that aren't weapons and enemies and stuff
idk if those people exist but still
crude geode
that sentence hurts my head
fleet grotto
that sentence hurts my head
torch god
looks inside
not a god
astrum deus
deus means god
looks inside
not a god
crude geode
no literally
keen zodiac
the cost of no changing names
crude geode
I mean
part of the problem is trying to separate "deity" and "god" despite the two meaning the same thing normally
frail mantle
Torch god is a Thing™ that is being left purposely unexplained so people can come up with their own explanations for it
Personally I like the idea that it’s a carbon monoxide induced hallucination from huffing torch fumes
tepid crown
torch god is a deity
deity still means god in calamity
lucid marsh
torch god is a deity
That's the same thing
Wether in calamity or not
A deity is a god
plush flame
iirc a deity is enshrined, a god consumes the auric soul of a dragon
lucid marsh
Was this ever explained anywhere? Because it goes against the definition of the word
keen zodiac
all gods are deities but not all deities are gods
lucid marsh
all gods are deities but not all deities are gods
You claim this but I want to hear if this is the canon explanation
Because that's a big thing to assert
keen zodiac
it's correct by your definition
lucid marsh
No, my definition is the standard one: the two words are the same in all contexts
Yours is different: some deities are not gods
tepid crown
You claim this but I want to hear if this is the canon explanation
the canon explanation is that theyre used interchangeably like five times in the lore
keen zodiac
anyway the point is that stip or whoever has said torch god isn't a god
tepid crown
theyre changing the bestiary entry to be unclear, not outright denying it
frail mantle
anyway the point is that stip or whoever has said torch god isn't a god
no it could be
they're leaving it vague on purpose
lucid marsh
the canon explanation is that theyre used interchangeably like five times in the...
So Xzier is full of shit, got it, thought so
keen zodiac
So Xzier is full of shit, got it, thought so
i see you're still mad about the life discussion
frail mantle
do we really need to be doing this
lucid marsh
Nah I'm done. I really did just want clarification on whether the explanation presented to me was legitimate
main oxide
obsidian nova
https://discord.com/channels/225030931008847874/263382359397761025/1403366721988...
I'm guessing that you're talking about the tavernkeep alcohol suggestion?
Sorry the link doesn't work for me
obsidian nova
i cannot think of any scenario where I'd rather have a chance to duplicate ore o...
Skyblock
obsidian nova
plus even if it doesnt get stars it still lowers the threshold for other suggs
Wait is that how this works?
indigo yacht
Skyblock <:XD:936106628833488906>
that's not mining though
obsidian nova
potionsafe
Who even heard about this one honestly
obsidian nova
You know, speaking of, I'm pretty sure suggesting a weapon to be added into an e...
Right?
drowsy plank
@main oxide please dont respond to suggestions in #suggestions-posting like that
fleet grotto
<@1192327413368103062> please dont respond to suggestions in <#69935902236449186...
i think they randomly sent it in most channels (?)
drowsy plank
well that is also against the rules obviously
rapid pivot
tbh though, re: the zerg potions, i really don't see the 'harms the health of the game' argument, especially when it comes to 'balancing around rarity'/'making utility items have a downside'. for one thing, you can already instantly swap between multiple armor sets with the press of a single key, so the downsides essentially wouldn't matter if there are a bunch of enemies around anyhow.
for another, i'd argue that the whole 'oh, you want to make an item rare, too bad' thing basically doesn't matter - there are two ways of making an item difficult to get; either lowering the drop rate, or making the enemy that drops it harder to kill/making it only drop under special circumstances. except lowering the drop rate only makes it take longer to get that item. this does not necessarily make the game feel more fun or more rewarding, except in the sense that it'd require you to sit through a more tedious experience for a reward.
if anything, zerg pots effectively convert the 'rarity from low drop rate' thing into 'rarity from challenge' - you now have to survive long enough to kill that specific enemy while bombarded by hundreds of others, after all.
glass arch
Wait is that how this works?
top 20% of suggestions
make a really unpopular suggestion and now that 20% can encompass more suggestions
crude geode
tbh though, re: the zerg potions, i really don't see the 'harms the health of th...
it really isn't a rarity from challenge tho
it's a "do you have any half decent piercing weapon"
rapid pivot
still have to manage at least one kill, which is at least a difficulty thing - regardless of how minor - compared to 'how long are you willing to wait before you can continue playing the game'
crude geode
zerg is a bandaid fix on top of the issue
it doesn't actually change the problem of "you can farm this enemy 500000 times and not get the item, or have it drop from the first one you kill"
rapid pivot
it doesn't, but it makes it less tedious by reducing the amount of time you have to wait for another one to spawn
and if the whole 'i wanna make a rare item that's actually rare' is really what someone's after, there is a system that can be used that would result in just that, that isn't susceptible to the zerg potion, and would indeed make rarity a barrier to getting an item in the exact same way that a zerg pot-less rare drop would
fishing.
glass arch
a) you already have methods to increase spawn rates outside of zergs and those are not overcentralizing yes drops or no drops b) you are frankly overestimating how hard it actually is to fish in terraria
rapid pivot
oh, no, i'm not overestimating it in the least
i understand exactly how easy and slow it is to fish in terraria
i'm just saying that it's exactly as hard as farming for a 'truly rare item' by just.. sitting and waiting for enemies to spawn in at a rather slow rate so you can kill them one at a time.
literally. same result, same difficulty, and every bit as slow. and you don't see people suggesting we lock more items behind fishing for the sake of the game's health.
glass arch
you're also exaggerating regular enemy spawns without zergs
rapid pivot
depends on the enemy, and you can double your output with vanilla fishing, technically. again, same outcome.
glass arch
and the reason people dont suggest more fishing content is because of the widespread stigma in the calamity community against fishing
rapid pivot
oh? why do you think that stigma exists?
crude geode
bc of boss rush mentality lmfao
idle dagger
To most people fishing is boring or uninteractive
crude geode
if it isn't fighting bosses or enemies, people ignore tf out of it
rapid pivot
or enemies?
would you be able to name a single non-boss or non-miniboss enemy in this game that people go out of their way to fight?
glass arch
for a lot of people, especially with where cal is currently if it isnt directly combat it isnt worthwhile
obsidian nova
that's not mining though
The skyblock I'm currently watching is like 50% mining
idle dagger
would you be able to name a single non-boss or non-miniboss enemy in this game t...
Underground crimson for souls of night
rapid pivot
for enjoyment's sake, i mean
glass arch
would you be able to name a single non-boss or non-miniboss enemy in this game t...
any enemy with a weapon drop
rapid pivot
and why is that the case?
glass arch
because it helps them do more combat better
crude geode
bc the only thing that encourages people in this mod is combat
rapid pivot
i'd agree. so.. would you then say that most people interested in this mod are installing it specifically for the focus on combat, even if the other stuff's a neat bonus?
glass arch
no
rapid pivot
why not?
idle dagger
And to be fair, I can get why a lot of people are uninterested in standing still and clicking the rod when something happens
I enjoy fishing but I can get why people don’t like it
crude geode
bc the only thing that encourages people in this mod is combat
(hence why people like blood orbs despite them one of the worst bandaid fixes in existence)
crude geode
why not?
people install this mod bc it's the biggest mod, and it's the forefront of modded content
rapid pivot
okay, fair enough - but if most people are doing things so they can be better at combat, and non-boss enemies are mostly fought for drops that make their combat better, and bosses are the main enemies fought for enjoyment.. like
why should the mod force players to sit through the combat they don't like for longer?
glass arch
because otherwise its just a boss rush which leads to the game being thoroughly uninteresting
crude geode
that's not what the suggestion is about tho
rapid pivot
except that is what the removal of these optional potions would do.
obsidian nova
it doesn't actually change the problem of "you can farm this enemy 500000 times ...
Fair enough, but I don't think anything less than completely overhauling the enemy drop system would fix this
Which would be a (mostly) unreasonable waste of time and resources
rapid pivot
you don't have to use them. you don't have to turn it into a boss rush-y experience.
glass arch
you don't *have* to use them. you don't *have* to turn it into a boss rush-y exp...
yet thats still what most people do
rapid pivot
is that not what they want, then?
indigo yacht
ok can we just like... add that one rng system where you're guaranteed to get a drop within a certain number of kills
glass arch
much like you dont have to vote for the suggestion you can just let it rot in voting
crude geode
If we never remove or change something because someone uses it, this mod would stagnate and become useless
rapid pivot
it's not like these potions are trivial to make, you do have to go out of your way to some degree to get them
indigo yacht
ok can we just like... add that one rng system where you're guaranteed to get a ...
if it's a 1 in 1000 chance for every missed roll the chance increases up until it's a 100% chance on your 1000th kill
glass arch
it's not like these potions are trivial to make, you do have to go out of your w...
you really dont
indigo yacht
it's not like these potions are trivial to make, you do have to go out of your w...
they're basically free
obsidian nova
and the reason people dont suggest more fishing content is because of the widesp...
So that's why I don't fit in the community huh
rapid pivot
slime god and a few underworld enemies
they're not 'free', but you can't have like, a decent stockpile of the things unless you're trying to get them
indigo yacht
fishing is overhated
glass arch
slime god and one (1) blood moon
rapid pivot
slime god's still in there
crude geode
Again, basically free as soon as you enter hardmode which is when you want them
indigo yacht
fishing is overhated
its not good or anything but like it's not, being forced to play junimo cart
rapid pivot
to be clear, my argument isn't that fishing is bad
rapid pivot
my argument is that making items 'meaningfully rare' by reducing their drop rates and removing the zerg pot is functionally identically a play experience to fishing
obsidian nova
And to be fair, I can get why a lot of people are uninterested in standing still...
Same
crude geode
It’s not an attempt to make them more rare. It’s an attempt to actually balance them instead of slapping a bandaid fix on and calling it good
rapid pivot
if you're calling slime god basically free due to ease in killing it, non-boss enemies are basically that, except unlike the slime god, you'd have to kill dozens of the non-boss enemies for each rare drop
rapid pivot
It’s not an attempt to make them more rare. It’s an attempt to actually balance ...
'actually balancing them' by making the drop rate more impactful by making way, way less enemies spawn. so making it functionally rarer.
also, per the text of the suggestion itself, 'Want to make an item drop rare? Too bad, Zerg potions make it about as common as dirt.'
rapid pivot
If we never remove or change something because *someone* uses it, this mod would...
plus, zerg potions are not uncommonly used in this mod. a lot of people use them. this isn't a matter of removing bloat nobody cares about.
glass arch
also like if increased spawn rates are that big of a deal to you there are qol mods that do the same thing
rapid pivot
oh? so you're saying that if i want to change my game experience, i can opt in to using certain tools to make some parts of my experience easier/more expedient?
glass arch
it isnt cals job to do everything
rapid pivot
it's already done it. you're talking about specifically undoing that work for something it never forces on you.
glass arch
and it shouldnt do it because its poorly designed
rapid pivot
also like if increased spawn rates are that big of a deal to you there are qol m...
again. you seem to be in favor of the 'you can just not use it' argument when it comes to stuff like this. why can't you just not use the zerg pot?
indigo yacht
again. you seem to be in favor of the 'you can just not use it' argument when it...
this is the calamity suggestions channel
"just don't use a mod" is wildly different from "this item shouldn't be in the game because it's bad design"
glass arch
also i will retierate
if you do not like the suggestion
do not vote for it
i will not delete the suggestion no matter what you say
you have the ability to not vote for it
rapid pivot
sure, but by bringing it up in the first place, they acknowledge that people have the valid choice of using or not using certain tools to affect the game experience
rapid pivot
also i will retierate
if you do not like the suggestion
do not vote for it
i wil...
any idea worth considering should be able to withstand criticism. if anyone here ends up reading this and changing their minds, i will feel this to have been worthwhile.
glass arch
ok
indigo yacht
sure, but by bringing it up in the first place, they acknowledge that people hav...
... it's just a false analogy
rapid pivot
how is it? both a different mod and a zerg pot are not forced on you and both make parts of the game experience (acquiring rare drops) more expedient
they are both options. john's trying to have one of those options removed, and yet they acknowledge that the decision to use such a tool to change the game experience is valid.
glass arch
see i understand that a simple discussion on the internet is far from enough to actually change someones opinion
rapid pivot
on meaningful topics where people have strong opinions on the subject? sure. on something like this? nah.
glass arch
see i understand that a simple discussion on the internet is far from enough to ...
see: this entire discussion
indigo yacht
i feel like everyone who is in favor of zerg potion has been so accustomed to it that they forget there are other spawn boosting items
enable death mode, start a blood moon, drink a battle potion, place down a water candle, bam
rapid pivot
sure, there are options. zerg's more effective.
indigo yacht
that's exactly it
rapid pivot
you don't have to use it. why take that option away from everyone?
indigo yacht
so long as zerg exists there's zero reason to use anything else
rapid pivot
unless, say.. you're doing a self-imposed challenge run. which is something not uncommon to calamity in particular. which is an individual choice.
golden sonnet
so long as zerg exists there's zero reason to use anything else
Zerg stacks, so not really
indigo yacht
that's not what im arguing about
rapid pivot
it really is, though
you have a problem with an option presented to the community by the mod
glass arch
you don't have to use it. why take that option away from *everyone*?
because its Bad
rapid pivot
evidently not to everyone, because they like it just fine.
it's fine if you don't like it, but you also don't want the option to be offered to anyone else within the mod.
glass arch
someone post the rover quote
glass arch
yeah
indigo yacht
fire
rapid pivot
that is not what i'm saying
i'm saying that people should have the choice to change their game experience. now, should calamity try to do absolutely everything at once? no
but if it's a non-intrusive potion that you don't ever have to use, that you kinda have to go out of your way to use, and it's already in, and it reduces the length of a tedious process that can be reduced to just, like.. sitting around with a summoner weapon on without it?
removing it just serves to make the part of the game that people evidently want to breeze past slower and more tedious.
indigo yacht
obviously grinding for stuff isn't something most people find fun but zerg is a bad solution for it
especially since it's so easy to obtain and you get it super early in the game
it feels more like an endgame item to me, tbh
rapid pivot
do you believe that removing the zerg potion will make the process of grinding for a weapon take longer
distant gyro
i feel like everyone who is in favor of zerg potion has been so accustomed to it...
to be honest zerg isnt really big on its own
the Thing
happens when you start to stack them
indigo yacht
to be honest zerg isnt really big on its own
i heavily disagree
distant gyro
battle (calamity) is 2.5x, zerg is 5x
rapid pivot
... although, actually
indigo yacht
5x spawn rates is A Lot
distant gyro
but... battle + zerg is 12.5x
rapid pivot
isn't suggesting zerg's removal due to balance a balance issue?
distant gyro
and most common combo-ing: death mode blood moon + zerg
terrifyingly, 50x
actually 20x spawn rates but at some point its the max spawn count that matters
indigo yacht
increase the length of the npc list 🙏
distant gyro
2.5 to 5 isnt too bad
2.5 to 12.5 is really bad
2.5 to 50 is complete pandemonium
glass arch
isn't suggesting zerg's removal due to balance a balance issue?
that would be if i were suggesting a nerf, which im not
crude geode
or a buff
This is just a removal lmao
which is much more in line with this channel than the balance thread
indigo yacht
2.5 to 5 isnt too bad
idk getting swarmed by like 50 enemies as soon as i drink a zerg potion with no other buffs feels pretty significant to me even if it's not as powerful as stacking
rapid pivot
a'ight, fair
distant gyro
its literally impossible to be swarmed by 50 enemies with only zerg
mystic sandal
you don't have to use it. why take that option away from *everyone*?
this argument can be used for every item ever btw
distant gyro
the spawn cap would be 25
rapid pivot
this argument can be used for every item ever btw
sure, but it's more applicable in this case as a regularly used item.
crude geode
Tons of people used the old aotc. Doesn’t mean it can’t be improved upon.
rapid pivot
you are not suggesting an improvement. you are suggesting a flat-out removal.
mystic sandal
you could also just not use purified jam
purified jam being removed was a good thing
rapid pivot
i would not be bickering against it so much if you were suggesting a rework, but that isn't what this is.
crude geode
Purified jam is a far better example ty
thorn dock
Dont remove these Pots pls... grinding for 1% drops will become quite painful
mystic sandal
i mean, good?
grinding should be hard
theres already plenty of ways to maximize mob spawns
thorn dock
Nah
rapid pivot
except in this case, grinding isn't hard. it's tedious.
crude geode
I’m of the opinion that 1% and low chance drops in general should just not exist and should be modified in some way, either increasing the chances or adding an alternate way of obtainment
rapid pivot
i would struggle to understand the reasoning that a mod would be improved by forcing people to spend an awful lot more time on the part of the game they don't actually like.
crude geode
I’m of the opinion that 1% and low chance drops in general should just not exist...
With this said, Zerg potions are a bandaid fix preventing that from every really getting across
rapid pivot
sure, but that isn't the case right now, and john is suggesting a removal of the thing that makes it tolerable before reworking the underlying problem necessitating it.
reworking that drop system is something that's far less likely to pass as a solution than just having the zerg pot removed even if i believe removing the zerg pot removed is a terrible idea just because of the level of effort involved.
so, if john's sugg passes, we'd get.. probably months and months of tedious grinding nonsense, possibly longer, before we can even have a hope of that situation being resolved in the mod itself.
mystic sandal
i would struggle to understand the reasoning that a mod would be improved by for...
because the point is that the rare drops are rare
thorn dock
Also using zerg and others is sometimes a fun event
rapid pivot
because the point is that the rare drops are rare
uh-huh. how long should it take to get the rarest weapon in the game that can be obtained solely via drops?
rapid pivot
no. i want the most extreme example you can think of given those parameters.
assume we're talking about what should be 'the rarest weapon in the game obtainable via mob drop'. how long should it take?
how long should we expect the player to sit and wait and do nothing but farm an enemy?
mystic sandal
i cant give an appropriate answer to that without knowing what other options exist at that point
there should be alternatives to grinding if people dont want to do it
rapid pivot
are there at this moment?
mystic sandal
using other weapons???????
rapid pivot
alternatives to grinding, i mean
thorn dock
Do we have to get rid of greater luck and luck potion too? It gets you rare loot way essier in my observation
mystic sandal
again, using other weapons