suggestions-discussion

[crude geode]

there was definitely a mix of both at the end

[golden sonnet]

idk, summoner already has the most built in debuff options and has access to classless weapons

[grim tusk]

Yep this is totally uneccessary

[indigo yacht]

ok so uhhhhh why

[violet zephyr]

I'm not sure what this is saying.

[golden sonnet]

summons can use any ammo without penalty by using the black hawk line, they have access to all flasks with whips, have a ton of debuffs through accessories that grant them, and many summons have built in debuffs

and eye of magnus for even more debuffs

[violet zephyr]

You want a system akin to Summoner Penalty on non-Summon weapons...

But you have no reason on why.

[grim tusk]

Need debuffs some minions and accessories do that whips
Need more support dmg? accesories whips
Need more effects? classless weapons whips

[golden sonnet]

summoner really does not need any more actives, whips and classless weapons are broken enough

[drowsy plank]

does this count as balance

i feel like this is balance

[grim tusk]

Yes this is balance

[drowsy plank]

and also does not
fix
the problem at all

[grim tusk]

Summoner is op in general, thus why the rebalancing is happening

[indigo yacht]

all summons despawn when not holding a summon weapon 🙏

[drowsy plank]

@shrewd topaz balance issues go in #1178515062030348308 but also this just does not fix your problem at all, and furthermore, like raesh said, what debuffs does summoner not already have native access to?

[violet zephyr]

Betsy's Wrath.

Uhh...

I can't think of any others.

[grim tusk]

Marked for death

[drowsy plank]

yeah okay well hotswap for it cause sorry that's so strong you deserve the damage penalty at that point

[grim tusk]

Slows/stuns

[drowsy plank]

caustic staff

[golden sonnet]

eye of magnus:

[violet zephyr]

Doesn't that one Summon have it?

[violet zephyr]

Yes, that one.

[indigo yacht]

lunic eye+ doesn't invoke penalty

[grim tusk]

What was the other one that Animosity, Death sickle and even Signus and DoG inflict?

[violet zephyr]

Whispering Death.

[grim tusk]

The red one

Yep that one

[drowsy plank]

seeker beat me to it

[violet zephyr]

Literally only five player sources.

[golden sonnet]

temporal umbrella

[golden sonnet]

and summoner still gets it

[drowsy plank]

i love animosity having it
cause why not

[violet zephyr]

Where's our Rogue Whispering Death weapon.

[gritty plaza]

also summoner has that one debuff that nothing else gets and that literally nothing is immune to

[grim tusk]

You cannot use it unless you sniper into m1 due to how short it lasts

[gritty plaza]

watchamacallit

the clam one

[drowsy plank]

i c

[grim tusk]

Probably a good idea for Cosmic Kunai rework

Or even spectral veil

[drowsy plank]

i moreso meant im surprised it's available that early

[golden sonnet]

it was fun with multiplayer shenanigans though

granted plant was still hell cuz it was GFB

[grim tusk]

Yep (RIP old momentum capacitor, rest in piss)

[golden sonnet]

[grim tusk]

Ngl something like old momentum capacitor could work if its made all class and the stat gains are not ass

As the jellies and even sand veil have shown

[violet zephyr]

Spectral Veil might be a good idea, since it could encourage using Spectral Veil ontop of a boss and, even if you get hit, you'd take less damage.

[grim tusk]

Yep the stealth refill goes nuts already

[grim tusk]

Oh and it has iframes

[violet zephyr]

80 of them.

[violet zephyr]

Temporal Sadness.

Time Distortion.

Webbed.

If it weren't for Chronomancer's Scythe, all three of these would be literally from a single source.

Shred.

Wither.

(Those are also both from a single source, being weapons.)

Summoner can inflict every non-single sourced debuff, except for Time Distortion, via weapons, accessories or potions.

I think.

Nevermind, there is one.

Daybroken.

No Summoner sources.

[grim tusk]

add it to stardust dragon balance on that thing goes to shit for the 50th time

[grave zinc]

@odd fractal - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[More uses for exodium clusters]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@novel belfry - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Make the Hemogoblin Shark, Great Sand Shark, and the Reaper Shark drop Shark Fins]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

@unborn stream - Your suggestion has received an updated status!

[Add an indicator for bosses enraging for the vanilla style healthbar]

It has received enough votes to be passed on to the dev server for voting! You'll be notified again when a verdict is reached.
You can check out your suggestion again here: #suggestions-voting message

[indigo yacht]

cool

[novel belfry]

i legitimately do not know if this will get accepted or not, its such a wacky suggestion

its a simple one, really. just add Shark Fins as a drop from those three sharks, but it really isn't too needed?

still got 158 votes tho

[half imp]

i think it has a good chance

i don't see why they wouldn't

[rugged belfry]

I like the idea because I hate ocean farming

[median scaffold]

[novel belfry]

if anything im more sad that the astral ore rename sugg didnt get in

😭

[indigo yacht]

and to think Australium was within our grasp

[rugged belfry]

To think we could've truly had Eteorite

[north oracle]

@jolly elbow please read the guidelines doc before making suggestions
Ideas to add specific items aren't allowed

[median scaffold]

Well, at least in actual Calamity

[jolly elbow]

Unfortunately I read it after I finished but I already put it there so might as well gun for it sorry for the inconvenience

[median scaffold]

You could just throw it in here instead of the posting channel

[jolly elbow]

I was not aware of that choice

The exo suit upgrade into armored core
So here’s a idea when you get ahold of the exo suit and you just so happen to be by the
Shimmer lake and you decide to throw the exo suit in the lake and it comes out looking like the steel haze ortus suit and it would then instead of a melee mech it becomes a ranged mech with incredible mobility and flight along with shoulder mounted rockets it’s a big stretch but it would look pretty cool seeing a armored core reference in calamity p.s if you don’t know what the steel haze ortus is look it up it’s cool 🙂

https://tenor.com/view/cat-jojo-jojo-bizarre-adventure-thumbs-up-gif-8704272925551344822

Fixed it

Sorry again for the mistake

[olive saddle]

my interest shriveled up when i read "its cool"

[gritty plaza]

the more i look at that cat the more disturbed i become

[drowsy plank]

okay i know the suggestion was already deleted but

"exo suit"...?

what is this even talking about
clearly not flamesteed or gemtech because it says that the armor is ranged and would turn melee but

i legitimately have no clue what it was in reference to

[median scaffold]

Arsenal Exo tier, I would assume

[drowsy plank]

so it was future content sugg too?

isnt arsenal armor going to be modular anyway...?

[gritty plaza]

And multi class right?

[drowsy plank]

yeah

[median scaffold]

I think yeah
And the answer to the second question is also yes

[jolly elbow]

Listen it was late and I thought it would be a cool idea I just wanted see the what people would think

[echo leaf]

so? fuck farming for hunter potions

getting all the shark fins passively makes getting more hunter potions easier

[glass arch]

do people actually need hunter potions

[spice stream]

yes?

[sleek turret]

Honestly not really

[drowsy plank]

they're a compontent of omniscience potions, aren't they?

[glass arch]

i never use hunter potions they are nothingburger

[prisma sedge]

I mean, they're pretty nice when you're looking for rare spawns underground, or bound NPCs

[glass arch]

if you dont use the blood orb recipe

[sleek turret]

They're good if you're trying to find a rare enemy that is in like a cave bubble I guess or any of the bound NPCs but the latter are easy to find

The problem is them getting killed coming from a vanilla perspective

[glass arch]

i dont remember the last time i actually made hunter potions

[sleek turret]

I have gotten more of them from crates and chest loot than from making them honestly

[echo leaf]

hunter pots are a component of omniscience potions

[glass arch]

hell i dont remember the last time i made omniscience potions

[sleek turret]

is it a uhh old potion combination item similar to how yharim stimulants and cadence potions were so that you could have less potion slots

[echo leaf]

They were nice when I was hunting for statues since I could spot traps, statues and nastiness in addition to statues

[half imp]

omnicience also makes hostile projectiles glow

[echo leaf]

omniscience does combine the effects of its components but it also highlights projectiles

[glass arch]

every projectile i can think of is visible already and if i need to see traps i can just use a dangersense

[sleek turret]

True actually

[half imp]

i just use omnicience all the time so i can see everything

journey mode <3

[sleek turret]

Truly

[echo leaf]

sometimes omniscience just kinda fails to do its job

Which I think is just a lil silly way to punish infinite potion users like god intended

[sleek turret]

(qol mod issue)

[half imp]

make potion effects get weaker the longer you have the buff on tbhh

[echo leaf]

we should make gills potions making you suffocate outside of liquids vanilla behavior

[half imp]

that was vanilla behavior

when i first played the game

[sleek turret]

Keyword, was

It used to in like, 1.1 I think?

[echo leaf]

It’s now an FTW exclusive

[sleek turret]

Or prior to 1.3

[half imp]

i was terrified to use gills for so long bc of that

[half imp]

prior to 1.2

[sleek turret]

It was kinda fucked honestly

[half imp]

it made fish bowl meta idk

[sleek turret]

The uhh that shell item I guess

[echo leaf]

breathing reed?

[half imp]

i was thinking neptune's shell

[sleek turret]

Yeah neptune's shell

[vestal crater]

i know you guys have talked about this but like

armor pen is already hard enough to balance

[drifting socket]

armor pen? what about armor pencil?

[vestal crater]

true dat

[errant wren]

armor marker

[gritty plaza]

armour highlighter (hunter potion)

[errant wren]

armor brush (dyes i guess)

[gritty plaza]

armour charcoal (golem's lasers that inflict broken armour)

[echo leaf]

armor penetration (tank round)

[errant wren]

armor... you know maybe i shouldn't say that

[unborn stream]

codpiece?

[errant wren]

i don't think i'm allowed to say it here

[gritty plaza]

armour penetration (the fair maiden seducing the knight so she can stab him later)

[unborn stream]

armor polish (ancient bone dust's singular use)

[median scaffold]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/465195069406707722/1341110533725622333/spr_wickerman_jumpscare_0.gif

[gritty plaza]

armour crunch (very popular at Subway's For Dragons™)

[median scaffold]

Stop

[unborn stream]

armor Stop (some jojo stand idk)

[gritty plaza]

🔥

[errant wren]

armor armor (defense damage defense)

[gritty plaza]

armour armour (stabbing people who forget the letter "u" in armour)

[errant wren]

are you european

[pastel oyster]

will we have malice mod back?

[errant wren]

never

[pastel oyster]

???

why bro

[sleek turret]

It sucked

[errant wren]

malice doesn't exist

[unborn stream]

master death:

[pastel oyster]

we need a new diff

[median scaffold]

Why?

[pastel oyster]

harder than death

[errant wren]

master death is the new difficulty

[median scaffold]

Why?

[pastel oyster]

[pastel oyster]

for better gameplay

[errant wren]

...

[unborn stream]

malice mode
better gameplay

[median scaffold]

So, why would it make the gameplay better?

[median scaffold]

(Tbf, I think it was better than Master Death, but who cares)

[dense locust]

master death has actual ideas

[pastel oyster]

cuz it will make it harder as , harder =better

[dense locust]

it is the conceptually better mode just the execution is awful

[median scaffold]

No

[dense locust]

you know theres like 4 difficulties above death you could be playing right

[pastel oyster]

yes

[median scaffold]

No

[pastel oyster]

yes

[median scaffold]

Yeah

[median scaffold]

Why something being harder is better?

[grim tusk]

these masochists…

if you want bullshit difficulty For The worthy master death is right there

[pastel oyster]

why play the same diffculty over and over when u can make it harder

[sleek turret]

because harder = better, better = faster, faster = stronger

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/886673434074054719/1283964033564934155/ezgif-7-d0de33c85c.gif

[pastel oyster]

🥳

[median scaffold]

Go play Satanist.

[grim tusk]

to make it closer to malice add Fargo’s Hyper mode and set speed to 1.5x

[pastel oyster]

u got the point

[median scaffold]

Well, we don't need a new difficulty, then! We already have one!

[pastel oyster]

why make it 3.0X

[grim tusk]

I suppose if thats what you want

someone insert the Destiny mode copypasta sticker

[pastel oyster]

if anyone want to make the game harder then u have many choices

[median scaffold]

Actually gambit is more popular than both pvp and pve so doing what i did actually takes skill no one on this game can do what i can on anything in this game gambit was my almost 3 year deathless and 0 loss starter than trials i owned it than pvp i owned it than all of pve i owned it i have more things to brag about than anyone just like how i reset gambit 32 times last season within a week of the season starting even pros that carry cant come close some advice d2 isnt hard my list goes on and on my guy 16 wins in a row before that loss and i carried the person we were helping and i soloed his enitre gambit quest for him for the exotics its just what i do i simply just thought it as funny how desperate they were like we werent even playing to win at all which makes it funnier it was a good laugh

(I know this is not what you've meant, but it is funny)

[grim tusk]

wrong one but good enough

[pastel oyster]

like eternity + death + getfixedboi+faster game = 👍

[grim tusk]

setting boss hp to the max and then adding another mod that does that too cuz they can stack

[median scaffold]

Well, yes. This also answers the question "Why Malice shouldn't be added back without a full rework"

[pastel oyster]

yeah thats a good one

[pastel oyster]

bro fu#k malice

we have diffculty compinations now

[median scaffold]

What a strange user

[pastel oyster]

......?

[median scaffold]

I do not get what you were and are trying to say

[pastel oyster]

what u meant by "strange user "

[median scaffold]

Well, mostly that
You've appeared seemingly out of nowhere, said "We need Malice back" and now you're saying "fuck Malice"

[pastel oyster]

yeah cuz i realized that its not hard as the diffculties combinations

[median scaffold]

...sure.

[pastel oyster]

and i have some depression cuz my old email that is 6 yrs old was banned permanently

[grim tusk]

[pastel oyster]

so what u think about the new update

[pastel oyster]

[dense ravine]

you should get antidepressants

:3

[pastel oyster]

do you have some

[dense ravine]

not for you

i need mine

[grim tusk]

nah, I use caffeine for that instead

[dense ravine]

trueee

[pastel oyster]

chai instead

[errant wren]

this is one of the strangest conversations i've seen here

[grim tusk]

that has caffeine iirc

I prefer coffee tho

[pastel oyster]

but in a low percent

[grim tusk]

i tried chai once and it was so fucking bitter

[pastel oyster]

bro u dont know the egyptian chai well

[grim tusk]

i guess

[pastel oyster]

i have from 2 to 3 cups in a day

[median scaffold]

SSO or 2.0.4.006?

[dense ravine]

i prefer my caffiene injected directly into my bloodstream

[median scaffold]

True...

[pastel oyster]

no the one that wont be released

[pastel oyster]

its more expensive than drinking coffe

[median scaffold]

So, SSO?
I'm still on my "I love Calamity 1.5 more than anything" arc, but it looks promising

[errant wren]

i don't drink coffee; too untasty for my liking

[median scaffold]

True

[dense ravine]

i like energy drink

[dense ravine]

acquired taste

[grim tusk]

Mocha is a good start for people that dont like coffee cuz too bitter

[dense ravine]

mocha my beloved

gay ass coffee

[pastel oyster]

its only drink without energy

[grim tusk]

very sweet drink and has chocolate, very nice

[errant wren]

hm

maybe

[pastel oyster]

bro i drink energy drink then i sleep

[errant wren]

also hilarious statement

[pastel oyster]

i think i have anticaffiens

[dense ravine]

its true!

everyone i know that drinks mocha is queer

[crude geode]

Roland moment

[pastel oyster]

i wanna know what is mocha

[dense ravine]

coffee mixed with chcolate

[pastel oyster]

made of

[dense ravine]

pretty mych

[errant wren]

everyone i know that drinks mocha is queer

[grim tusk]

im straight and still drink that thing, so that means…

[crude geode]

True!

[dense ravine]

hmmmm

[pastel oyster]

this two are expensive for me

[grim tusk]

more like

[dense ravine]

sad

[crude geode]

[pastel oyster]

but i eat coffee in the morning

[drowsy plank]

what on earth is happening in here

[grim tusk]

yea we went offtopic

off to #general-talk we go

[errant wren]

coffee discussion for new coffee themed item sugg

[pastel oyster]

let go

[pastel oyster]

can we make coffe channel

[errant wren]

aw hell naw i ain't going there

[median scaffold]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/925615409682591744/1095262500141928488/841433677401555014.gif

[grim tusk]

i was actually planning to have a coffee mug item til I realized that vanilla Terraria has one

[median scaffold]

Cats

Wtf, no cats

[pastel oyster]

my gawd

i have an orange one

[gritty plaza]

British, so yes

[errant wren]

i see

[pastel oyster]

say water

[gritty plaza]

Water

[median scaffold]

Bri'ish

[gritty plaza]

/ˈwɔːtə/

Or /ˈwɔːʔə/ depending on dialect

[indigo yacht]

british people arent real

[gritty plaza]

Yes we are

(sorry)

[errant wren]

https://tenor.com/view/hatsune-miku-are-you-british-british-your-mom-miku-gif-10809727938553525273

sorry

[gritty plaza]

Hey we may suck but at least being British gives me an excuse to wear a waistcoat

And use a pocket watch

[median scaffold]

That's a privilege of French people

[errant wren]

i don't think not being british has ever stopped people from wearing that, regardless

[indigo yacht]

i say this because if you call anyone besides an English person British they will ecstatically remove your spine

[median scaffold]

What person am I?

[indigo yacht]

shuki

[errant wren]

what person am i

[indigo yacht]

hs

[median scaffold]

That's not a country....

[indigo yacht]

idk what country you're from

[errant wren]

wdym

usa

[median scaffold]

[errant wren]

united shuki of auric-tier absorber

[indigo yacht]

besides the boring answer of russia

[median scaffold]

Of AoE

[median scaffold]

I'm actually from Germany because I main Medic

[indigo yacht]

true

[indigo yacht]

fellow medic main??????????

[coral carbon]

blue hair blue tie hiding in your wifi

[indigo yacht]

🔥

[errant wren]

i hoped for any other reference

but yeah

[median scaffold]

Yes, of course 🔥

[errant wren]

miku is pretty epic

[median scaffold]

How could I not be a Medic main while being Auric-Tier Absorber

[errant wren]

what's your diagnosis?

[median scaffold]

There's not enough auric in your stomach
Absorb more, my fellow comrade!

[errant wren]

wrong answer

explode

how did we get off topic again

[median scaffold]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/465195069406707722/1341110533725622333/spr_wickerman_jumpscare_0.gif

Wicker man

[glass arch]

how are you even more offtopic now than last time

[median scaffold]

There is no boundaries when it comes to being off topic

[drifting socket]

there is one.

being on-topic

[novel belfry]

the mods told me to stop yapping about volcano facts in #calamity-update-talk

[median scaffold]

That means you're BORING

[pastel oyster]

bro how to be boring in 0.000001 second

@median scaffold

why the heck are u still talking here

[median scaffold]

@pastel oyster

[pastel oyster]

move to general talk now

[median scaffold]

Why not?

[pastel oyster]

"kids like you should be burning in hell"

[errant wren]

wh

huh

[pastel oyster]

cuz this not a non calamity talk bud

[median scaffold]

Why are you referencing Undertale all of a sudden?

[errant wren]

why did you just quote sans undertale

[pastel oyster]

that is the first thing that yall be thinking

nice that ur still knowing the game

[median scaffold]

Okay

[pastel oyster]

[pastel oyster]

les go to za generel talk now ?

[median scaffold]

I guess

[pastel oyster]

why are u still here

SHUKIIIIIIII

[median scaffold]

#general-talk

[gilded citrus]

Yes the fuck i am

[median scaffold]

You're a cutie patotie

[gilded citrus]

You will lose your bones

[gilded citrus]

Raesh wtf why

[errant wren]

lmao

[median scaffold]

Please

Kill me.

[errant wren]

raesh am i real?

[golden sonnet]

Sorry, I don't believe in british people, nothing personal

[gilded citrus]

Fuck you>:(

[errant wren]

erm why would you say that to a mod

clearly a bannable offense

[golden sonnet]

true, I'll go ban em

[median scaffold]

Raesh, you should go to the summoner mines

[fleet grotto]

Wait, that's a bammablr offense?

[median scaffold]

||That's a joke||

[fleet grotto]

Hold on this is huge

Fuck you!!!!

[errant wren]

no i was making shit up

[fleet grotto]

||i know||

the joke is that "Calamity Discord Sucks And I Don't Want To Be Here Slash J"

[median scaffold]

F U C K Y O U ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

[fleet grotto]

holy fork

[errant wren]

you know what is a bannable offense?

[median scaffold]

Okay, that becomes really weird

[errant wren]

cause i don't

[fleet grotto]

this sucks

[median scaffold]

Fuck me

I guess

[fleet grotto]

we should discuss suggestions

[violet zephyr]

Fifty dollar Steam gift card.

[median scaffold]

We have none.

[errant wren]

uhhh

[median scaffold]

LOLLL

🔥

[errant wren]

i have no sugg ideas

[median scaffold]

Rewrite this, plz....
#suggestions-voting message

[fleet grotto]

Rework the way that Brimstone Elemental and Calamitas Clone's hellfireballs work

For those who don't know, hellfireballs are the projectiles that explode on contact with blocks or after enough time passes.

The issue with these projectiles is that bosses are typically fought in arenas, where they will explode into a decently dangerous aura far away from the player as they do not contact platforms. This makes them incredibly easy to ignore, especially for Calclone who is typically fought on the surface. They can only be distinguishable from other projectiles when the player walks on the solid floor, where the projectiles can actually do something.

Changing the way these projectiles work can make them more threatening and force the player to change the way they tackle these otherwise simple bossfights.

[fleet grotto]

i alreFy did

[median scaffold]

Do it again

[errant wren]

what the heck

perfectheart reference

[violet zephyr]

Add the entire Perfectheart boss fight into Calamity Mod, 1:1

[fleet grotto]

with how easy she is it could be done pre boss

[violet zephyr]

Watch all the non-Omori fans suffer.

: D

[fleet grotto]

: D

[errant wren]

: D

[median scaffold]

We should add Engineer from Capture the Intelligence

[errant wren]

We should add

1 + 1 = 2

[fleet grotto]

why are we saying "we should add"

we're not adding anything

[errant wren]

uh yeah we are

1 + 1

duh

[violet zephyr]

I didn't say that.

[indigo yacht]

way too many words

[fleet grotto]

yea

why i didn't post it

[indigo yacht]

just say "hellblasts should explode on contact with platforms", give a short blurb as to why, then post that

[fleet grotto]

i don't wanna be too specific about it

[errant wren]

i mean

i can rewrite it

Make the Hellfireballs in the Brimstone Elemental and Calamitas Clone fights more threatening
Hellfireballs are projectiles that explode on contact with solid blocks or after enough time passes. The issue is that they don't pose a significant threat if the player uses an arena, since the projectiles pass through platforms and the timer takes too long for the projectiles to explode at a threatening range.
Changing the behavior of Hellfireballs to make them a more significant threat near the player would make their danger in arenas consistent to that if the player fought on the ground.

something like that

[fleet grotto]

yeah i like this

do you mind if I post this?

[indigo yacht]

"rework" with the only talking point being to "make them more threatening" is really broad and atp i would rather tackle the shitty fights they're part of than focus on specifically one projectile

[errant wren]

it's a step to a broader rework

not that i'm a dev

hmm

[crude geode]

saying rework this entire fight is probably not the best

[errant wren]

exactly

i'll post the sugg myself

if i get blasted then yeah

[crude geode]

I'd really argue that 'rework this specific projectile', is in fact fine considering we had something earlier with the indicator for skeletron's projectiles

[errant wren]

(ok so i didn't immediately get 🗜️ so i'll wait)

you know

usually if i see a sugg posted i'll try to comment on it if it's still relevant

[indigo yacht]

i cannot find anything on that

[errant wren]

it's weird not doing that for once

#changelogs 547 - Skeletron and Skeletron Prime's homing skulls now turn purple to indicate when they've stopped homing. - Done ✅

shit forgot to reply

[indigo yacht]

does that

have anything to do with

i think i have misunderstood

[errant wren]

it does technically change the behavior of a single projectile by making them purple when they stop homing

[indigo yacht]

I don't see how that's relevant to the specificity of language in a proposed change to a projectile

[errant wren]

well i'm gonna explain dang 💀

changing single projectiles to make them better in a fight is precedented

so there is precedent to changing the specific attack in the fights to actually do something, and reworking the hellfireballs may lead devs to put some more work into the fights in general

not that i'm a dev, and ultimately it's their call to do so if the sugg makes it to them

[indigo yacht]

that's not really what i was arguing about but i guess yeah

[errant wren]

small steps

i'm just here now to actually suggest something for once (no that sugg i made years ago does not count)

[crude geode]

you were asking to rework the entire shitty fight, but I'd rather take small steps that are reasonable for suggestors. I'm not sure if a boss fight rework would end up as 'grand scale', but I'd hazard a guess and say so, so I'd prefer to suggest something with precedence

which is reworking the behavior of a single, shitty projectile

[indigo yacht]

that's not what i was directly asking

nvm

[errant wren]

you did phrase your messages kinda weirdly

i also may just suck at reading

[violet zephyr]

#suggestions-discussion message

[gritty plaza]

Aren't they removing night providence?

[dense locust]

they are

well no

its just being changed to not being fought exclusively at night

enraged guardians are dying though

[gritty plaza]

no 🗜️ ?

i thought it needed a linebreak

[indigo yacht]

this is literally just how terraprisma works why is it being compared to providence lol

oh wait

i misread

providence only gives a dye anyways

[gritty plaza]

there's the 🗜️

good bot

[olive saddle]

#suggestions-posting message balance nightmare

like actually this is just an enormous balance nightmare

i dont think calamity likes doing permanent upgrades outside of health and mana

oh yea

adren too

and rage

[indigo yacht]

the core concept is something calamity should elaborate on

[olive saddle]

i dont think its a good idea to 1 make rogue stronger and 2 give free armor pen to litearlly everyone

[cinder patrol]

im no game designer/balancer, i just thought it was an interesting idea

its also just a proof of concept

[indigo yacht]

i take some issue to the examples given though for the reasons Elliot mentioned though

[glass arch]

stealth gen is also not necessarily good for rogue

iirc the damage formula decreases the higher your stealth gen is

[cinder patrol]

the thing is, terrarias shimmer upgrades are fairly odd too, for things like fishing power and luck, so i thought some of calamity's obscure stats could get a small boost

[indigo yacht]

i would highly recommend restructuring your suggestion to focus on calamity adding nondescript permanent shimmer upgrades to work on parity with vanilla, since it's currently a feature only considered in vanilla and calamity has yet to touch it

[glass arch]

^

[cinder patrol]

i see

[indigo yacht]

focus less on examples

because that makes it less likely the devs will care

[glass arch]

being too specific with examples is a surefire way to get ❗

[olive saddle]

i feel like they havent done it for a reason but that could be me being a conspiracy wizard

[drowsy plank]

@cinder patrol please remove the specifics from the sugg yeah it seems like people have already covered the issue

[cinder patrol]

that seems kinda harsh to say it that way, but yeah i'll do that

[indigo yacht]

probably just they want to make sure shit is balanced, like with whips

[drowsy plank]

also lmfao some of these stats as passive bonuses are insane

[glass arch]

armor pen when it exists

[olive saddle]

i hate armor pen

its balanced

[indigo yacht]

it's just the way development works, anyone can post suggestions so they have to be ""carefully"" considered for quality

[olive saddle]

because it gives the benefit of heavier damage weapons ignoring armor to smaller ones but also

it does barely anything for bigger weapons

[glass arch]

armor pen is balanced but i fucking hate it because of the variance it gives to certain weapons

[olive saddle]

yea same

thats probably a way better way to put it

[indigo yacht]

armor pen is kind of swept aside in calamity

[glass arch]

(phoenix flame barrage getting 2 minutes faster by putting on rtn)

[indigo yacht]

oh boy +7 damage on my weapon that does 25000 damage every hit

[olive saddle]

i might make a sugg on it then

[indigo yacht]

but then this exists

[olive saddle]

because its so polarizing depending on the weapon

[indigo yacht]

truly wonderous

[olive saddle]

it either does

[olive saddle]

this

[drowsy plank]

you're ignoring the weapons that fires 25000 times and has a base damage of 8- yeah i was gonna say

[olive saddle]

or this

[drowsy plank]

it's so funny

[indigo yacht]

the most common armor pen rework I see is to make it percentage based

idk if it would actually help

but it's interesting nonetheless

[glass arch]

percentage based as in..?

[olive saddle]

percentage based is a good direction but i dont know if its the right direction for it

[unborn stream]

remove enemy defense entirely tbh

[indigo yacht]

like, instead of piercing 15 defense points you'd pierce 10% of enemy defense or something

[olive saddle]

i assume its like "you ignore x% of armor"

[glass arch]

horrifying

[indigo yacht]

scal has 50 defense so with 10% ap you'd ignore 5 of it

[olive saddle]

so we're back where we fucking started lmao

muh 5 ap does nothing

makes it 10%
muh 5 ap against scal!

[indigo yacht]

it was an example

[cinder patrol]

the thing about editing my suggestion is just that i dont exactly know how to rewrite it to actually benefit calamity so i might just delete it instead

[olive saddle]

i know its just funny is all

i think armor penetration is inheritly flawed but that could be me

[indigo yacht]

focus on parity between vanilla and calamity and the idea of untapped potential

[glass arch]

yeah

[indigo yacht]

"calamity expands upon vanilla permanent upgrades for stats like health and mana, but the shimmer variants are neglected"

[cinder patrol]

I get that calamity is very combat and progression focused, so parity with vanillas own odd upgrades doesnt really matter much

[drifting socket]

Yeahe

[glass arch]

i mean

cal is also trying very hard to turn away from that

[drifting socket]

Interesting idea but I feel like the hook is dull as it is

[indigo yacht]

you can kinda make the argument of not mattering about a lot of things

doesn't mean those things aren't good additions

[cinder patrol]

i might as well just post a different suggestion cos i have some other ideas

[unborn stream]

shimmer celestial onion to get an extra extra accessory slot

[indigo yacht]

you're dying

[unborn stream]

yipeee!

[glass arch]

thats just celestial onion

[indigo yacht]

"allow shimmering the celestial onion to get 8 slots in master mode specifically"

[glass arch]

make it something completely fucking stupid like +1 inventory slot

[indigo yacht]

fire

[unborn stream]

extra layer of vanity slots

[indigo yacht]

thatd be peak though

[olive saddle]

if you make it a flat amount then it deals too much for smaller weapons, but if you make it a percentage then it either deals the same but worse and better in some situations (it mildly becomes another generic damage% accessory), but if you make it too strong then it usurps all the options and becomes way too strong vs some enemies

i probably phrased it horribly, but i believe its inheritly flawed because it will either be so polarizing that lower damage weapons get their killtime cut by like a 1/4th and higher damgae weapons will get nothing from it, it will either be boring and uninteresting/go back to square 1, or do too much.

all of this changes as well if you apply other debuffs like ichor which can probably amplify this problem.

im horrible at actually laying out why its bad but i hope the point gets across that i believe its flawed

i might make a sugg about doing something with armor pen as its really polarizing right now, but im also conflicted

[indigo yacht]

i think the problem is more from bosses not really thinking about defense, it's just a stat that's there to make armor pen do something

[glass arch]

ye

most bosses in cal have... pretty low defense actually

[olive saddle]

because on 1 hand do think build diversity is interesting and catering to lower damage weapons is cool, but on the other hand armor pen does way too much for those weapons and its hard to balance depending on what it does for higher damage weapons

[glass arch]

most of them get their tank from dr

[olive saddle]

clearly we need to make RTN ignore 0.66x of dr too then

this will fix Terraria Calamity Mod

[olive saddle]

the thign about defense as well is that it cant be too high

if its too high its annoying to fight against

if its too low then armor pen does nothing

[errant wren]

clearly we just make weapons that are gonna be classified as "heroic" not benefit from armor penetration as much

[indigo yacht]

ngl i think heroic is dumb

it just makes me think about stone imps

[errant wren]

better than true melee (probably)

[indigo yacht]

doom eternal saw that the combat shotgun rapid fire mod was basically the worst weapon in the game and decided to fix that by adding an enemy that is specifically weak to that one mod and very tanky against everything else

balancing, hamfisted

[olive saddle]

gam desgion

[glass arch]

thats not really an accurate comparison

[indigo yacht]

heroic (to my knowledge) is quite similar because it's taking "bad" weapons and giving them extra damage against bosses, like how the bad combat shotgun mod has extra damage against stone imps

i mean they're very different games

[glass arch]

its not taking something and making it specifically vulnerable

[errant wren]

i don't think that's entirely how it works??

[glass arch]

the goal is to keep the killtimes the same

[indigo yacht]

i would love to be wrong because it's just a shitty idea

[violet zephyr]

It is less about making them do more damage against bosses, and more about making them do less against regular enemies. The weapons that will recieve Heroic are already doing great on bosses.

[indigo yacht]

i see

[glass arch]

heroic is the way the devs have decided to do that so weapons dont completely trivialize literally anything that isnt a boss

[errant wren]

there is a point in cal progression where it's literally just boss rush

[indigo yacht]

i think cal is trying to move away from that

(because its lame)

[errant wren]

exactly

i think that's the other benefit of heroic damage

(almost said heroin by accident)

[glass arch]

lets take enforcer
its true melee
890 base damage and it performs pretty well on bosses
now lets take something from the same tier, orderbringer
orderbringer is a projectile broadsword
it has 128 base damage and also performs pretty well

do you see the disparity here?

heroic is the way the devs can keep the current boss performance while also being able to butcher the base damage

[indigo yacht]

not really, base damage and damage type are hardly enough information to extrapolate a weapon's performance elsewhere

[violet zephyr]

Using The Enforcer on buffed Festive Moons and Solar Eclipse is hilarious.

[errant wren]

that's also kind of a result of current cal

how many enemies does orderbringer projectile hit?

[violet zephyr]

Once.

[errant wren]

because i have literally not played cal in half a year

[violet zephyr]

I believe the entire sword is single-target based.

[olive saddle]

Rethink boss resistances or do something with armor penetration

This stems from a discussion, but essentially most bosses have higher DR than defense. It's pretty obvious as to why this is, which is it can shaft lower damage weapons and/or is annoying to play against, but it often shafts armor penetration. Armor penetration is one of the most polarizing statistics in the mod by far as it either does absolutely nothing on some weapons or makes some weapons extremely strong.

This suggestion is either asking to rethink how boss resistances are, or to do something with armor penetration, as both in their current state are unbalanced around each other and create polarizing interactions. Defense + DR can do a lot on higher damage weapons but that stems from how DR and defense mix and is mostly the fault of DR, while lower damage weapons are shafted by defense, but said defense can be partially ignored and the damage can be shot into the stratus-sphere with armor pen, hence the minimal improvement overall from armor pen on most weapons.

(i probably repeated myself here a bunch)

[violet zephyr]

"Upon swinging the sword, a rainbow sword is fired, which swiftly homes into a nearby enemy. Every one-tenth of a second, two rainbow orbs are fired out on either side of the sword, which travels a short distance before disappearing on enemy hit or after one second. After two seconds or an enemy has been hit, the sword dissipates, and homing rainbow rain rapidly drop down every one-tenth of a second for the following 20 seconds at the location of the projectile's death. The rain pierces once, homes through tiles, and lasts three seconds. If 20 seconds have not passed since the last projectile's death, the next orb will only change where the rain will spawn." I lied. A single projectile of the many it spawns has one pierce.

[glass arch]

the issue with stuff like enforcer is its a multitarget weapon that also has to be good on single target which leads to fucking ridiculous results when using it for multitarget

[errant wren]

that's a lot of words

[indigo yacht]

dr equally affects all weapons regardless of damage or hit speed, it's calculated after crits

[olive saddle]

dr is fine, dr + defense isnt is my point

defense comes after dr

[indigo yacht]

I'm not sure what you mean

[olive saddle]

sorry im bad at phrasing

[glass arch]

the issue is the flat reduction coming after the multiplicative reduction

[violet zephyr]

"Homing projectile that hits once spawns two falling orbs while it flies and only hit one enemy or dissapear after one second. After the homing projectile hits something or after two seconds, multiple homing projectiles with a three second lifespan and pierce once spawn near the target. Hitting another main projectile moves the secondary rain of projectiles"

[glass arch]

right?

[indigo yacht]

if that's what they meant, I've got good news, because it doesn't

[olive saddle]

dr then defense shafts lower damage weapons as if a boss has like 50 defense + 30% dr and a weapon does 100 damage then it will do less than half, 45 damage. ((100 x 0.7) - 25). If you ignore, say 20 armor, then suddenly that 25 becomes 15 and you're doing 22% more damage total.

dr then defense does very little to high damage weapons. same equation. 50 defense + 30% dr on a 500 damage weapon. it will only deal around 40% less at 300 ((500 x 0.7) - 25). ignoring armor is such a small increase to 310 that it barely does anything

[hollow shell]

@cinder patrol I'm not sure if the Astral Infection is meant to be a Hallow/Evil counterpart. It's usually treated like kind of its own thing afaik

[olive saddle]

it does. defense comes after damage reduction unless this was shadowpatched somewhere

[olive saddle]

Why???

[novel belfry]

i dunno why we need to have two different damage reduction stats

[violet zephyr]

DR first, then Defence. An enemy with 50% DR and 50 Defence will take 25 damage from a 100 damage attack (100 -> 50 -> 25). If it were the opposite, it'd be 37 damage.

[olive saddle]

is that better or worse what the fuck

[novel belfry]

aside from specific cases like when you want a specific part of a boss to be more sturdy to encourage players to shoot a different part

like wof

but it feels wack on bosses that ONLY have one hurtable zone

[violet zephyr]

One affects large hits, the other smaller ones.

[hollow shell]

If there's no condition to it, why does boss/enemy DR need to exist when you can just increase their HP

[cinder patrol]

cos stat inflation bad

[indigo yacht]

it just means that it can be ignored in damage calculations because it applies after everything else

so it affects everything equally

unless the wiki is wrong which i will attempt to check

[olive saddle]

50 defense + 30% dr and a weapon does 100 damage. 52.5 damage. ((100 - 25) x 0.7). ignoring 20 armor does this: ((100 -15) x 0.7) = 59.5

50 defense + 30% dr on a 500 damage weapon. 332.5 ((500 - 25) x 0.7). ignoring armor does ((500 - 15) x 0.7) = 339.5

eeh?

[violet zephyr]

How useful...

[jolly elbow]

Armored core

[hollow shell]

(not a useful image)

[olive saddle]

ugh???

then the conclusion isnt that armor pen is strong its just that it does fucking jackshit lmao

[hollow shell]

Well it's better on low damage weapons, obviously

[olive saddle]

7% more damage per hit vs like 2%

[hollow shell]

Because armorpen is effectively a flat damage increase

[olive saddle]

let me do exomechs rq

[violet zephyr]

Precisely this. You cannot make Armour Penetration favour everything equally if Defence itself lowers flat damage.

[hollow shell]

Indeed, and I don't think it was ever meant to favor every weapon equally

[violet zephyr]

It will favour higher fire rate weapons, because of course a high fire rate weapon would like two more damage per shot.

[indigo yacht]

nah modifyhitbyprojectile checks out

[violet zephyr]

Shark Tooth Necklace. Minishark. Perhaps Redigit has been playing us for fools.

[hollow shell]

heheh

[novel belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/volcano-volcán-vulcano-blast-burst-gif-21665328

holy smokes

of course

[indigo yacht]

that's not smoke that's ash

[olive saddle]

100 defense + 35% dr and a weapon does 100 damage. 32.5 damage. ((100 - 50) x 0.65). ignoring 15 armor with RTN does this: ((100 - 42.5) x 0.65) = 37.37500. a 1.15x damage increase. meh? i guess? not terrible...

[novel belfry]

ash is a kind of smoke

[indigo yacht]

explodes u

[jolly elbow]

holy ash

[olive saddle]

i dont know of any weapon that does 100 damage on exomechs though

[violet zephyr]

Phoenix Flame Barrage?

[olive saddle]

140

[indigo yacht]

the thing that makes ap (generally kinda) bad is that usually to get armor piercing you're sacrificing other stats like damage or crit chance

[violet zephyr]

Close enough. Do consider RTN also provides a 15% damage bonus, on top of its AP. So its not just AP on an accessory.

[olive saddle]

from what i know the moer damage you have the less impactful armor pen becomes but i could be wrong ill run a calc rq

[indigo yacht]

that's accurate

[violet zephyr]

Perhaps it would be better instead to look at SSTN.

[olive saddle]

100 defense + 35% dr and a weapon does 100 damage. 42.25 damage. (((100) + 15%) - 50) x 0.65). ignoring 15 armor with RTN does this: (((100) + 15%) - 42.5) x 0.65) = 47.12500. a 1.115x damage increase.

ok yea it does get considerably worse

i know i couldve done 115 shut you're mouth

it goes from 1.15x to 1.115x

[violet zephyr]

You could've do-

[olive saddle]

with just 1 accessory thats already a pretty heavy loss

thats not counting armor and other shit

[indigo yacht]

ok so astral isn't really meant to be an evil biome

and it does have early hard mode equipment

[olive saddle]

even though it does favor lower damage it doesn't seem to do much later

[indigo yacht]

mostly rogue iirc

[olive saddle]

on shit like bees and minishark its great

[indigo yacht]

but ursa sergeant is fantastic

i guess lunic eye is also there

and polaris

[olive saddle]

defense is actually relevant around that area since minishark like 5 damage increased by like 30 or something is ~6.2 and ignoring 2.5 points of armor or 5 points of armor is nearly double damage depending on the boss you fight which is a pretty decent DPS increase if im running that calculation correclty

[idle dagger]

Ursa seargent being changed drastically next major update

Society

[glass arch]

because of the way cal is balanced, without stuff like heroic damage, the disparity shown in enforcer vs orderbringer leads to multitarget weapons, which are balanced as single target weapons, being ridiculously overpowered when used for their actual purpose

why did the reply delete

[indigo yacht]

WHAT

[olive saddle]

its an offensive accessory now

or something

[idle dagger]

It’s losing all it’s defense and instead increases movement speed

Or something

[indigo yacht]

well that's just- hold on movement speed?

[idle dagger]

I don’t remember exactly

I just know all the defense is gone

[indigo yacht]

hm

[olive saddle]

i think the issue is lategame armor pen doing fucking nothing unless you stack in which you're strictly doing worse

[idle dagger]

I’ll miss you 20 def

[indigo yacht]

that's so lame

[olive saddle]

i think its movement speed + damage

but i could be wrong

[oblique birch]

20 def is the lamest

[indigo yacht]

you're playing vrchat dont speak to me

[idle dagger]

Lol???

[oblique birch]

imagine bringing that up

[olive saddle]

god not that fucking game

[cinder patrol]

the three things you can get straight out of hardmode are the 3 pieces of rogue armor made with titan hearts

[olive saddle]

no matter how valid it is yea its wrong to bring it up

[indigo yacht]

uh, no, i listed like 4 things you can get immediately

there's a few others i didn't mention as well

[cinder patrol]

yeah so my point is theres not enough equipment

[indigo yacht]

let's take the crimson as an example, you get uh bladetongue and crimson minics

ichor, which i would argue is equivalent to starblight soot

[cinder patrol]

theres more than blade tongue and the mimics

[indigo yacht]

there's souls of night and dark shards

[cinder patrol]

also ichor wouldnt be equivalent to the soot, the soot is like the pixie dust

its a standard crafting material

[indigo yacht]

the difference between the evil biomes and the astral is that they are untouched after early hardmode while astral has two more bosses attached to it providing a new tier of equipment, twice

[sleek turret]

True actually

[indigo yacht]

well, ok, no the hallow has empress

[sleek turret]

The equivalent would be if there were Astral Arrows, Bullets, Darts, Flask, etc

[cinder patrol]

yeah

kaizo gets it

[sleek turret]

(a separate material solely for that purpose)

[indigo yacht]

but she only has her drops to offer, while the astral unlocks new gear besides boss drops

[cinder patrol]

after 2 bosses that are both after golem yeah

[indigo yacht]

hm?

aureus is post plantera

deus is post cultist

[sleek turret]

isn't aureus in the middle between plantera and golem yeah

[cinder patrol]

i thought aureus was post golem?

[sleek turret]

the entire post-plantera content bridge

[indigo yacht]

if anything i would endorse a suggestion to make the crimson and corruption biomes less useless later in hardmode

[cinder patrol]

then suggest that

[sleek turret]

LMA

[indigo yacht]

no i don't care that much

[sleek turret]

actually add uhh Soul of Stars and then make Astral Key and then make Astral Mimics

[cinder patrol]

my point is that if the astral infection is going to start existing at the same point as the hardmode biomes with all their equipments and drops, it might as well have parity

[indigo yacht]

it's not meant to be an evil biome though, it doesn't even spread

[sleek turret]

although the souls need to end in the "ght" prefix though

[indigo yacht]

soul of starlight obviously

[cinder patrol]

souls of uh

plight

souls of blight, guys

like the oldgen console shit

add ocram to astral infection

new update

[grizzled dome]

I regret to say this, but... if you're a rogue, isn't your first hardmode armor set from the Astral Infection?

[cinder patrol]

yeah but thats the only thing pretty much

[limber bison]

Isn’t there a forbidden armor helmet for rouge too?

[indigo yacht]

that's not astral related

[sleek turret]

Yeah but that is like post 2 mechs alredy

Later in progression you can get that

I mean you also go for Astral for like a couple of early hardmode items for some classes like Mage for the Comet Shard and uhh

[indigo yacht]

lunic eye and ursa sergeant

[sleek turret]

There's also 2 fishing exclusive weapons

Rogue weapon and a ranger one

[cinder patrol]

hate to say it a third time, but ONE armor set and like 3 weapons is not enough for straight wof, which is what i was suggesting

[indigo yacht]

polaris parrotfish sucks i think, but gacruxian mollusk is pretty decent (?)

[sleek turret]

idc if it sucks or not

[cinder patrol]

i also didnt even know about those until now anyway

[sleek turret]

What matters is that it exists

Yeah you do obtain a quite amount of content from it

Has some parity with how hardmode fishing on the other biomes has at least 1 fishing weapon

[grizzled dome]

also the astral infection doesn't really count as an evil biome because it doesn't spread. I can see it needing more content, but if you make it all immediately post-WoF it might end up fighting all the other immediately post-WoF content.

[cinder patrol]

hate to say it a fourth time but my point is thats not a lot of equipment for straight after wof, my point is there should be a little more for straight after wof

1 armor set and 4 ish weapons straight after wof isnt really relevant in its own right, so there might as well be like 2 or 3 more weapons

[sleek turret]

Yeah but like Hatate suggests you could put Celestial Claymore into some enemy and you'd still have the same weapon pool avaiable

[cinder patrol]

the claymore fits the astral infection anyway

i thought it was odd that it was a regular biome mimic drop

[sleek turret]

Mutated Astral Armoured Skeleton or something idk maybe another Mimic if it feels fancy

[grizzled dome]

I thought you meant inventing new content to put there, rather than transplanting existing content to there. Fair enough.

An astral mimic would kind of make sense, actually.

[cinder patrol]

well it would be like a combination of that

[sleek turret]

It doesn't also need to be like the bigger mimics it could be like the smaller ones with ice mimics

[cinder patrol]

1 or 2 new weapons and move the celestial claymore to astral

yeah

[indigo yacht]

the problem with this suggestion is the reasoning surrounding "astral being an evil biome" because it isn't
additionally, the bit about the celestial claymore should either be a larger focus or a smaller one (like, it should either be the suggestion, or it should be an example for the suggestion) bc rn it feels kinda like two related suggestions combined into one

i would change the evil biome thing to what you said about it being accessible after wof

[tardy geyser]

Add souls of blight to the underground astral obviously iirc tbh

[indigo yacht]

• execution

[sleek turret]

Instead of the V evil spread we get the W spread

[tardy geyser]

I should read the whole conversation more often lo

Byeah astral has plenty of stuff pre mech. A lot of stuff post aureus too unlike the evil biomes

[grim tusk]

Astral has a lot of stuff directly after hardmode

and yep feels like 2 suggestions at once

including a specific new enemy

for these 2 reasons imma ❗

[indigo yacht]

I don't have to look past the title to know this one breaks the scope rule

ah

it wants to remove progression skips

[errant wren]

basically

[indigo yacht]

Calamity intentionally adds like three dozen of them so i don't think that would happen

[errant wren]

that's uh

yeah

like that's the whole point of a progression skip

[unborn stream]

you... don't need to beat golem to fight ravager

[indigo yacht]

also i love the rav

yes

the ravager example

since it's literally post 1 mech

[unborn stream]

ravager can be your first boss I'm pretty sure

oh does it need hardmode anvil

[indigo yacht]

don't think so, but it can be second

yes

[errant wren]

i do remember getting the temple bricks once as a drop

[unborn stream]

but also how does prehardmode not have this issue?? literally any prehardmode boss can be your first boss

[errant wren]

not that i actually remember

[unborn stream]

like there is zero linearity in prehardmode

[indigo yacht]

true

[olive saddle]

i remember a take in the vanilla terraria discord that hardmode is less linear than prehardmode

[unborn stream]

yes, calamity adds an enemy to the jungle temple that drops lihzahrd brick

[indigo yacht]

i mean, i don't think a single phm boss is locked behind another, so... no

although calamity hardmode is relatively nonlinear which is fun

[drifting socket]

Oh hell no. there's like two required bosses in prehardmode and one of them is just so another boss in Hardmode can spawn

You can just go kill the wall of flesh right out the gate

In theory

[olive saddle]

to be fair

the terraria discord is full of unintelligence

[drifting socket]

this place is much better?

[errant wren]

that's more of a discord thing than a server thing

[indigo yacht]

if the show's called invincible
then why can i see it

[olive saddle]

i was gonna sayyes

until i remember calmain existed

and uh

its a very slight yes

[indigo yacht]

cmt my nightmare show

[olive saddle]

you should honetsly see curseforge

90% of the comments are like

(update version) PLEASE

[indigo yacht]

genius

[olive saddle]

its terrible

zero feedback to be found anywhere

[glass arch]

heres a tip never use curse always use modrinth

[indigo yacht]

see this is why i never got into Minecraft modding there are options

[olive saddle]

unfortunately sunken cost fallacy and im on 1.16.5

[hollow shell]

@ashen warren How difficult was it for you to beat Astrum Deus pre-Mech? Or Leviathan, or the others?

The fact that it's possible is completely intentional on Calamity's part

[glass arch]

modrinth also has 1.16.5 mods

[olive saddle]

can you port a curseforge modpack over to there

[glass arch]

hell it has mods down to 1.0

[ashen warren]

it was easy as hell

i no hitted them

[errant wren]

might i ask what mods you had enabled?

[glass arch]

next question what was your modlist

[hollow shell]

Hm.

[indigo yacht]

also, you realize that all post golem bosses besides moon lord and Plaguebringer goliath can be fought if not as your first hardmode boss, as your second?

[ashen warren]

i just compressed the suggestion tho

is that good

[indigo yacht]

duke fishron can be fought prehardmode, even

[ashen warren]

#suggestions-posting

[olive saddle]

no actually the concept of it violates the rules

[ashen warren]

yeah im just wondering why thats a thing

[olive saddle]

non-linearity is a vital part of calamity

[glass arch]

calamity intentionally leaves progression skipping in

[indigo yacht]

to give the player options

[hollow shell]

Hang on

[olive saddle]

skill expression and more unique options for playthrough

[hollow shell]

Lemme check the doc

[olive saddle]

am i dumb

[ashen warren]

why not nerf the loot then

???

[olive saddle]

because thats dumb?

[indigo yacht]

because you'd nerf the entire game

[olive saddle]

its like turning spicy ramen into normal boring ramen

[ashen warren]

astrum deus is the easiest boss in the game but his loot literally breezes through everything

[indigo yacht]

there are very few bosses that can only be fought after killing another prior boss

[ashen warren]

trash analogy ngl

[olive saddle]

thats a problem with deus and not the loot he drops

[indigo yacht]

^

[glass arch]

zacey you havent answered the question
what is your modlist
is it straight cal or is it crossmodded

[ashen warren]

straight cal

i was on death mode

its ez

oh and i did the same thing on masochist death mode

[olive saddle]

smells like go play another difficulty like master death then

[ashen warren]

only one i havent played is infernum

[glass arch]

frankly that just sounds like a skill solution at this point

[indigo yacht]

calamity wants to reward the player for fighting bosses earlier than they're intended to be fought, since you're (intended to be) taking on a more difficult challenge

[olive saddle]

yea i was gonna say

[ashen warren]

so ur saying ive gotten too good

[errant wren]

essentially

[olive saddle]

go try master death

see if that is enough

[ashen warren]

i was on masochist death mode dude

and i beat astrum deus pre mech

[hollow shell]

Removing nonlinearity is no longer a Don't, after we rewrote the doc.

[unborn stream]

to me it sounds like. pathological liar moment

[olive saddle]

masochist deaht mode is probably super less hard vs master death

[indigo yacht]

you literally just said that you were doing straight calamity and not crossmodding

[hollow shell]

This sugg does not inherently break any rules, afaik

[verbal aspen]

masochist death makes deus easier because you get op fargo items without a stronger deus

[glass arch]

maso death deus is. literally just death deus. there is no difference

[indigo yacht]

^ those two too

[ashen warren]

think about pre hm progression guys

[errant wren]

but also like it's a non issue

[ashen warren]

notice how you need to beat the previous boss to upgrade right

[unborn stream]

pre hm progression? where you can fight any pre hm boss at any point?

[hollow shell]

Wait were you playing with Fargo's, Zacey? Like you had its accessories?

[indigo yacht]

...you dont

[glass arch]

you actually dont

[olive saddle]

i will reiterate

[indigo yacht]

phm you can fight any boss in any order with no repercussions

[olive saddle]

master death is a great way to challenge yourself or

[ashen warren]

for this playthrough yeah i did but for the other playthrough no i just played reg master death

and still breezed through deus

[hollow shell]

Okay

[glass arch]

zacey i dont know if you know this
but you can beat the game while beating literally only like 2 pre hardmode bosses

[indigo yacht]

that's just a deus problem i think

actually, you can do it with 0

[olive saddle]

suffer

[indigo yacht]

including wof

[ashen warren]

not just deus tbh

[unborn stream]

i wager that if somebody is legitimately good enough at the game to easily beat deus pre mech, then they would naturally also know enough about the game to know that you can fight any pre hm boss in any order

[glass arch]

yes i know wofless exists i was the one who came up with it

[ashen warren]

most pre hm bosses have their own ai though

[indigo yacht]

eh?

[ashen warren]

theyre harder to defeat without loot

astrum deus has copy and pasted ai

[glass arch]

...yeah and? what does that have to do with needing to beat them?

[ashen warren]

most generic worm boss ever

hes easy

[unborn stream]

i wager that somebody who is legitimately good enough to beat deus pre mech would also be able to form a coherent argument

[indigo yacht]

this suggestion seems kind of baseless

imo

[olive saddle]

[ashen warren]

ur just trash

[errant wren]

now that's just rude

[indigo yacht]

that's really helping your argument

[unborn stream]

[hollow shell]

Ok this is becoming non constructive

[ashen warren]

what argument lmao

i think you misunderstand

[hollow shell]

I was about to ask a few people to stop talking so that this isn't a dogpile

[ashen warren]

suggestion is not an argument

[errant wren]

...

[indigo yacht]

if deus is so easy
how does locking its summoning past cultist fix the problem of the boss being easy

[glass arch]

a suggestion is arguing to the devs why said thing should be added

[unborn stream]

yeah i will back off as i think I've made my point lol

[indigo yacht]

because the boss being easy seems to be the crux of your argument

[ashen warren]

but ur not a dev

[indigo yacht]

and some other bosses as well

[ashen warren]

so what that gotta do with you

[glass arch]

that is an inherent part of persuasive writing, it has to make an argument and back up that argument to persuade someone to agree with it

[indigo yacht]

very true

[ashen warren]

get me some pros in here tho i need people who are as good as me at this game

[indigo yacht]

I've nohit all of master death am I good enough

[ashen warren]

word

[indigo yacht]

ive also done it on low% and I'm doing it without weapons rn

[ashen warren]

capp

[indigo yacht]

i recorded it all

[hollow shell]

Elsi do you agree that Deus is unusually easy

[glass arch]

look if you're just going to go to ad hominem on everything i can do the same thing too

[ashen warren]

so where is the footage ill view it myself

[indigo yacht]

yes, but that's a deus problem, not a non-linearity problem

[ashen warren]

i wouldnt say unusually hes always been lightwork

[ashen warren]

kind of is

[indigo yacht]

low% i deleted but weaponless is unedited on my computer

[ashen warren]

his loot is insanely good

[glass arch]

no it isnt

[indigo yacht]

oh and the nohits are on my yt channel

[ashen warren]

they might as well make all of his loot craftable with the ancient manipulator

[hollow shell]

I'm wondering if this sugg should be changed to focus only on Deus, because that'll be easier to support than a sweeping change of almost all bosses in the latter half of the game

[glass arch]

it is an issue with deus, not with non-linearity

[ashen warren]

like his treasure bag drops

[ashen warren]

nah not just deus

anahita

aureus

[indigo yacht]

aureus?

that's a random choice

[ashen warren]

and make aquatic scourge only a hard mode thing

[ashen warren]

post plantera boss

[hollow shell]

Deus is a good starting point, though
Because he is intended to be the furthest in progression

[ashen warren]

true

[unborn stream]

what's the argument for anahita and aureus? you say deus is so easy because it's just another worm boss, those two have much more unique ais

[ashen warren]

no anahita is extremely easy

[indigo yacht]

they are also fairly easy, to be honest

[glass arch]

ok so... if im reading this correctly, this runs into the good old rule 6